# Schengen negotiations, Letter to MP



## barge1914 (Jun 15, 2020)

Following on from the post by Frogman on the thread Schengen Limits on the Motorhomer site I thought this was worth giving its own thread as it may be missed on the end of another long thread. I have penned the following to our MP. It is self explanatory. If you want to see the links where a proforma for this can be found head over to Motorhomer, alternatively you can just as easily copy and edit mine to suit your own circumstances. I don't know if it will do any good, but as ever if its left to lone voices nothing ever happens, its pointless just moaning on here. Don't let the b******s think no-one is watching.  PS. If you do write, don't forget your constiuancy address and your telephone number otherwise they don't have to read it.

Dear Mr .....

We are writing to you now because, despite a global pandemic, the Government is pressing ahead with negotiations on the future relationship with the EU, with inequitable consequences for the needs of UK citizens who have cause to travel in Europe. Our request is therefore urgent as any change in the negotiating position must be sorted out as a matter of priority before it is too late. 

We have owned a Motorhome for 6 years and travel extensively in Europe, and formerly owned a residential barge and did likewise for some 14 years since cancer and spinal problems prompted early retirement. We also have a large number of friends who have residential craft or property in Europe. In my lifetime I have designed hospitals and medical facilities in Europe and throughout the world contributing significantly to our countries overseas earnings, and acquiring 5 European languages along the way. Because my medical conditions cause chronic pain the motorhome is a lifeline allowing me to travel long distances in a series of short hops of indeterminate length, able to make unbooked impromptu overnight stops, something which no other form of transport can offer. However to travel thus means all trips take a long time to accomplish. 

Currently I am able to travel for extended periods in Europe without having to worry about how long I stay (within reason) whilst always respecting local residency rules.

However, after the UK-EU transition period ends on 31/12/2020 the Schengen 90/180 rule will come into force for UK nationals allowing me to spend only a maximum of 90 days in any rolling 180 days in Europe. The only alternative currently open to me is to obtain visas for each of the countries I plan to visit every year. This is very constraining and is a cumbersome and unpredictable process, and would require personal visits to embassies in London which for me are very difficult to get to. Further, it may be cost prohibitive due to the requirement for long-term health insurance. You cannot apply for a visa if you are already travelling outside the UK therefore I will have to decide my exact timetable of visits before I leave the UK which for reasons already stated is difficult. 

The UK Government Immigration Bill which has been given initial approval by MPs states,
*“We expect to treat EU citizens as non-visa nationals meaning they can come to the UK as visitors for six months without the need to obtain a visa.” *The Government seems to have accepted a proposal from the EU for 180 days visa-free travel for their citizens visiting the UK whilst accepting *half* of that visa-free allowance for UK citizens visiting Europe. It has therefore failed to secure reciprocity from the EU. It is untenable that the government should be satisfied with imbalanced arrangements that have  so many disadvantages for more than 500,000 UK citizens and their families who currently take long trips in Europe

Whilst Government Ministers have acknowledged the concerns of these UK citizens, they are doing nothing practical to address the issue. They say that travel mobility will be addressed in the future relationship negotiations but inspection of the public text of the most recent government papers does not refer to tourist travel. An annexe to those documents which relates to fishing is a big item politically, and affects some 24,000 families but this is only 10% of the number affected by the Schengen 90/180 rule.

Unless travel arrangements are included in the agenda for UK-EU negotiations, and the Government position is altered as a matter of priority, then the half-million voters who take frequent or extended trips to the continent, or have second homes there, will be unable to continue to do so.  

The Government has frequently stated that the EU will offer UK citizens 90 days visa-free travel in 180 days without qualifying that the 180 days are  “rolling”,  or without recognising the known limitations of the Schengen 90/180-day rule. By continuing to refer to the EU offer in this way, *the government is misleading the public*, many of whom may not have the intricate knowledge to yet appreciate the problems they will face.

In your role as my constituency MP, I am asking you to press the government to address the lack of equivalence between what the HMG is proposing to offer EU citizens and the restrictive Schengen 90/180-day rule being offered to UK citizens. The key decision makers in this regard are Michael Gove, Dominic Raab and Boris Johnson.


Yours sincerely


Regards

Ian and Lynn .....


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## korky (Jun 15, 2020)

Sadly I don't think this is up for negotiation.The Withdrawal Agreement has already happened. ASFAIK future talks are about trade only.I stand to be corrected.


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## antiquesam (Jun 15, 2020)

I'm afraid that UK citizens who want to spend more than 90 days in Europe are a very small minority in the scheme of things and don't warrant having to give up something more important to get a concession for the benefit of a few wrinkleys. It is not going to happen.


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## barge1914 (Jun 15, 2020)

The defeatism sadly common to all motorhome forums may have something to do with why nothing ever happens in our favour. At least I can have the pleasure of annoying my MP...he wanted the job.


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## korky (Jun 15, 2020)

Oh and if your MP is a Tory, good luck.I'm still waiting on a reply to my email re Cummings.These people have made themselves unaccountable.


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## antiquesam (Jun 16, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> The defeatism sadly common to all motorhome forums may have something to do with why nothing ever happens in our favour. At least I can have the pleasure of annoying my MP...he wanted the job.


My feelings on the subject aren't defeatist but pragmatic. The UK economy is on the bones of its a*se with 8.5 million people's wages being paid directly by the government, of whom an estimated 4.5 million won't have a job at the end of it, yet a few baby boomers are asking the government to concede something like our fisheries or continued European Court jurisdiction in order to allow them to be permitted to stay in Europe for longer than 90 days where they will spend money from the UK economy on foreign soil. The same people boast that the £1,000's they spend keeps those local economies bouyant. I suspect much of this money comes from public service pensions or rental income from the furloughed and maybe jobless, and therefore directly from the Treasury coffers.
Some of us will remember times gone by when we were only allowed to take paltry sums out of the country in order to help the economy. If I was an MP I'd think this sort of request doesn't much help the antipathy felt by the young to our generation and that it is somewhat self indulgent and selfish. I would probably file it on the hook next to the toilet for recycling and disposal.
Sorry if I offend, but I feel quite strongly about the future of the country and think that it might be wiser to restrict foreign travel rather than promote it in the future.


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## jacquigem (Jun 16, 2020)

Well for us the answer was Spanish residancy and Spain can have my money rather than this UK governmnent .


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## antiquesam (Jun 16, 2020)

jacquigem said:


> Well for us the answer was Spanish residancy and Spain can have my money rather than this UK governmnent .


I would much rather people do as you did rather than stay here and take out of our economy, provided, of course, they don't take advantage of our health service or other facilities.


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## jacquigem (Jun 16, 2020)

If I have my way I will not spend one penny in the UK nor will I expect them to provide me with anything.


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## Geraldine (Jun 16, 2020)

Sounds like the visa route for travel into Europe. Canada already does this and it is all done online.


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## barge1914 (Jun 16, 2020)

Geraldine said:


> Sounds like the visa route for travel into Europe. Canada already does this and it is all done online.


Yes, I could live with the visa route if it could be done on line, but looking at EU nation websites, French in particular, you can only get a visa by assembling a massive dossier of personal information and financial testimonials and every time having to go in person to the French embassy in London. That’s a journey I could only make in the motorhome at the best of times, and for obvious reasons a non-starter. Even more so for a long trip involving numerous countries.


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## Carrerasax (Jun 16, 2020)

Done, 4 what it’s worth , but I tried!!!!


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## antiquesam (Jun 16, 2020)

runnach said:


> Geezo, you berate someone and criticise the OP for being interactive with his plea to government. Hardly his fault, or mine UK economy is buckling due to CV19.
> 
> "Baby boomers" you surely certainly cant criticise an individual because of his/her DOB? At least the BB's have paid their dues, unlike 3rd or 4th generation on benefits, cause they can't be arsed and prefer to leach of those with a work ethic.
> 
> ...


Forgive me, but I'm missing your point. I am a baby boomer. I have had a good life but it is s bit rich to ask the country to give something up so that you can indulge a whim at the expense of the UK economy.


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## Minisorella (Jun 17, 2020)

The visa system is likely to be very straightforward and easily done online, as it already is for visiting many other countries. It's in the EU's interest as much as ours... perhaps more so now than ever when they'll need as much tourism as possible to help pay the pandemic bills. I'm not too pessimistic about any of it after what's been happening in the world. Bigger fish to fry and all that...

I'm just praying that we don't give in to an extension of the trade talks or we'll be due to pay another umpteen billion in annual membership fees plus we'd remain under laws and will then be liable to pay a share of the whole EU pandemic bill. Only Germany can afford to contribute now and even they're on the brink of recession, so on their usual 'means tested' basis, we'd likely end up legally responsible for at least half of the entire pandemic debt. Doesn't bear thinking about! I strongly suspect that if we hadn't left the EU, the government wouldn't have been able to plough so much money into the furlough and other pandemic relief/grant schemes... they certainly haven't stinted on financial help in my view. I've a feeling all this has strengthened their resolve not to extend the deadline.


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## jagmanx (Jun 17, 2020)

For Canada you can easily get a 6 month visa..Very cheap and done online.
The visa is valid until you have to get a new passport.
Thus 6 months allowed every year..Someting like that MAY happen..Ever the optimist !


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## antiquesam (Jun 17, 2020)

runnach said:


> Of course not, as I am not old enough.


I'm sorry but I'm even more lost. What has your age got to do with being prepared to negotiate the right to stay in Europe for more than six months a year? In any negotiation you have to offer someting in return. What is this concession worth? Unfettered access to all EU citizens to work rest and play? Give up Northern Ireland perhaps. All this so that a few thousand Brits can spend time touring around Europe spending £100+ (If you believe the countless posts on this forum) a day, bolstering another country's economy.
The jobs market in the UK is going to be very tight. BA have already started to renegotiate their employee terms of employment, a self employed plasterer I know has been told the daily rate is being halved and he can take it or leave it.
If even some of that £100+ was spent in the UK it would go some way to keeping a few UK citizens in work.


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## antiquesam (Jun 17, 2020)

runnach said:


> In a nut shell, surely it is up to the individual where he/she wish to holiday while at the same time, spend their hard earned cash......no?


Legally yes, morally no. My problem has always been the question of trying to pressurise the Government to negotiate to allow extra time abroad at considerable cost to their position in the talks.


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## barryd (Jun 17, 2020)

I've got a great idea. Just say to our nearest neighbours in Europe that we will allow you to come here, holiday, work in our NHS and pick our fruit for as long as you like if we can all do the same. Great opportunities for all on both sides. We could call it "free movement of people". Oh, hang on


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## Drover (Jun 17, 2020)

I got a automated reply a while back.....


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