# Lorry and maybe motorhome blind spot regulations



## Derekoak (Apr 5, 2019)

Page not found | The Guardian

 The third paragraph says that by 2022, if we are still connected to Eu regs, lorries must be fitted with all round vision. This is so they can see dangers in their existing blind spots. Logic would suggest this will apply to campers too. 
  Hopefully they will then ban the victim blaming " if you cant see my mirrors I cant see you" stickers and the stupid similarly victim blaming, "Cyclists do not overtake this vehicle " which really means " I do not look in my Lh side mirror or signal before I turn left so keep out of my way". I would not mind if they said that as the police might take an interest.


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## Asterix (Apr 5, 2019)

After witnessing a car get side swiped by a truck on a dual carriageway,I was surprised when the cops turned up and attached no blame to the truck driver. The car was in his blind spot apparently,yet the driver should have known it was there,regardless of whether he could see it or not,and he also only indicated for a second or two before moving across. At least having all round vision will put the responsibility firmly where it lies.


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## colinm (Apr 5, 2019)

Conversely, I was sat at a red light with lefthand indicator on, lights changed to green and I started to move off when a cyclist came up the lefthand side of me, I stopped in middle of the junction whilst the idiot continued to illegally pass on the inside, as a cyclist myself I was less than impressed.


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## st3v3 (Apr 5, 2019)

Derekoak said:


> This is so they can see dangers in their existing blind spots.





			
				Derekoak said:
			
		

> which really means " I do not look in my Lh side mirror …...




You've completely contradicted yourself in the same post lol.


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## mark61 (Apr 5, 2019)

Is this the "direct vision" law?
or another one?


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## CarlandHels (Apr 5, 2019)

colinmd said:


> Conversely, I was sat at a red light with lefthand indicator on, lights changed to green and I started to move off when a cyclist came up the lefthand side of me, I stopped in middle of the junction whilst the idiot continued to illegally pass on the inside, as a cyclist myself I was less than impressed.



Happens for to often, I see idiots going through red lights, swerving in and out of traffic and on and off footpaths daily around Harrogate. Yet generally the motorist is to blame for not seeing them, yeah right!! Same as on a night, there are to many that don't bother with lights front or rear, again very hard to see them and almost impossible when pulling up along side you.


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## antiquesam (Apr 5, 2019)

My experience of driving a 7.5t lorry with two sets of wing mirrors, a downward mirror on the top of the nearside door and a downward facing mirror above the windscreen I didn't have time to look through the windscreen. I would imagine any new regs would only apply to new vehicles over 7.5t.


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## caledonia (Apr 5, 2019)

Derekoak said:


> Page not found | The Guardian
> 
> The third paragraph says that by 2022, if we are still connected to Eu regs, lorries must be fitted with all round vision. This is so they can see dangers in their existing blind spots. Logic would suggest this will apply to campers too.
> Hopefully they will then ban the victim blaming " if you cant see my mirrors I cant see you" stickers and the stupid similarly victim blaming, "Cyclists do not overtake this vehicle " which really means " I do not look in my Lh side mirror or signal before I turn left so keep out of my way". I would not mind if they said that as the police might take an interest.



Obviously you have never driven a truck!


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## st3v3 (Apr 5, 2019)

***** said:


> All the Driver will now need are an extra few pairs of eyes.:scared:



Quite. The new MH has 5 mirrors, fecking big blind spots so I need to try and track things in and out of them, needs me looking further up the road because it's too big to stop quick, passengers to keep an eye on, yet I'm to blame when an idiot undertakes when I'm indicating left.

I can't sympathise when entitled idiots who should know better expect everyone else to look after their safety when they carry on blindly because they're more important than everyone else.

I'll put my soapbox away now lol.

Edit: 5 mirrors


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## st3v3 (Apr 5, 2019)

I see the drivers have made it home from work and started posting. The cyclists will be here in about half an hour pmsl


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## Derekoak (Apr 5, 2019)

caledonia said:


> Obviously you have never driven a truck!



I have actually . If you cannot see all round you , you are a danger on the road. By 2022 you may have to learn to be safe, it would not be before time.


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## wildebus (Apr 5, 2019)

The technology is there to have blind spot warnings for the driver without the need for cameras all round and screens.  You don't need to actually see what it in in your blind spot in order to take action;  you just need to know there is a potential 'thing' there and take appropriate action  (which is probably to take NO action in fact)


I have "blind spot" warning lights that illuminate in my door mirrors that are a warning that there is 'something' there coming alongside me that I probably can't see in the mirror. 
I am sure if this technology can be fitted in a Vauxhall Corsa, it can be fitted in vehicles costing a hell of a lot more!


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## st3v3 (Apr 5, 2019)

Derekoak said:


> I have actually . If you cannot see all round you , you are a danger on the road. By 2022 you may have to learn to be safe, it would not be before time.



It is simply not possible to see all around you.


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## mark61 (Apr 5, 2019)

Shame the link don't work. Might have half an idea what it's all about.


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## caledonia (Apr 5, 2019)

st3v3 said:


> I see the drivers have made it home from work and started posting. The cyclists will be here in about half an hour pmsl



I’m a cyclist and an retired HGV mechanic and truck drivers have enough to do without watching for kamikaze drivers and cyclists. Blind spot mirrors and fresnel lenses help a driver but driving a 44 ton truck takes concentration and as the Highway Code states give way to the bigger vehicle. 
Now someone else can jump onto the soap box.


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## phillybarbour (Apr 5, 2019)

Some interesting comments on here for people who clearly have never driven a large articulated truck. Truck drivers make mistakes, but cyclists going down the inside of an articulated truck is just so dangerous for them, but they keep on doing it.


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## yorkslass (Apr 5, 2019)

What happened to the law that says it's illegal to undertake.......or have I been dreaming,?
Common sense....I know, a strange concept.....says that you don't try to undertake a big vehicle or overtake when one turns left.  What's lacking is a bit of tolerance .....and getting out of bed before you need to be at work.


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## Tbear (Apr 5, 2019)

On my pushbike I have a gross weight of maybe 120kg so an argument with a 44 tonne truck never seems like a good idea no matter what sort of view they have. Bit surprised that so few cyclists agree with me at times.

Richard


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## trevskoda (Apr 5, 2019)

***** said:


> When I was driving back and forth to Spain and Portugal, Mrs G used to say that car drivers should, have to spend a few hours with a truck driver before they could sit their test
> They just have no idea!



Yes and many car driver should be made to do a motor bike test before getting a car licence,doing so would cut the amount of cars on our roads.


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## Asterix (Apr 5, 2019)

yorkslass said:


> What happened to the law that says it's illegal to undertake.......or have I been dreaming,?
> Common sense....I know, a strange concept.....says that you don't try to undertake a big vehicle or overtake when one turns left.  What's lacking is a bit of tolerance .....and getting out of bed before you need to be at work.



Signs often seen on the backs of trucks in Aus. "Passing side" and "Suicide",it sort of drives the message home.


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## RV2MAX (Apr 5, 2019)

On my 12 mtr RV  had all round cameras , and dual mirrors both sides , a sign on rear saying do not overtake turning vehicle , and drive to dominate road eg sit astride both lanes at tight junctions . Morons on bikes and cars still try and come past , and then get scared to death when they find that they end up in a very quickly narrowing path to drive on . Hope they learn from the experience .


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## CarlandHels (Apr 6, 2019)

*Lets be honest..*

When it comes to using the roads with any vehicle all you need is the one lacking thing a lot of people seem to be missing.. COMMON SENSE!

I have been a tractor and trailer driver, truck driver, motorcyclist, car driver and now only have a motorhome and over the years things have got so much worse. Maybe it's just down to the volume of traffic on the roads now, maybe everyone is always in a rush, but the main things that are missing are patience, general thought for others and as said above common sense!

A lot of cyclist (Not saying them all) have no common sense, they undertake, they ride 2 & 3 sometimes more side by side, even on the country lanes round the blind bends, through red lights etc etc. 
Now the bit I don't understand is simple, most of these folk will also drive, so do they drive like morons too? (are these the undertakers) lol
Surely when they're sat in their motors and get undertaken by idiots on bikes or by doing 40/50mph on a country road and find these guys spread across the road riding along chatting without a care/thought for anyone else, do they not got annoyed by the same fact we do?

All the blindspot gadgets in the world wont always help, I thinks it's just another way for insurance companies to gain a loop hole so they don't need to pay out to be honest.

You just need to travel down the A1 south where it splits to the M1 and see how many folk undertake, cut you up, so they can keep on the A1. it's a scary section of road and all down to the things I said above. To be fair if they do bring in all blindspot cameras they should be used to prosecute the idiots that are clearly breaking the laws of the roads and not the innocent drivers of the larger trucks etc... 

Lets fetch some common sense back onto our roads and we wouldn't need gadgets for blindspots, cars that can brake for themselves etc etc, we could actually have drivers out there that really do drive and care. Oh the roads would be such a happy place to be....

Sorry waffling over... Have a great day


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## Tbear (Apr 6, 2019)

yorkshireCPLE said:


> When it comes to using the roads with any vehicle all you need is the one lacking thing a lot of people seem to be missing.. COMMON SENSE!
> 
> I have been a tractor and trailer driver, truck driver, motorcyclist, car driver and now only have a motorhome and over the years things have got so much worse. Maybe it's just down to the volume of traffic on the roads now, maybe everyone is always in a rush, but the main things that are missing are patience, general thought for others and as said above common sense!
> 
> ...



This is not something I do as it scares the hell out of me but it is accepted and legal practise. Many motorists need to realise that just because they don't like it, does not mean that cyclists and horses don't have a legal right to use the whole lane and not just the gutter. If its a blind bend you should be going slow enough to avoid an stationary obstruction so a cyclist travelling at 15mph away from you should not be a problem. Cyclists have to dodge potholes and road furniture which requires sudden sideways movement so you need to give them space. If you are going past them you are overtaking a vehicle so should not do so unless it is safe. I am about to go out on a two hour ride during which I can guarantee that a dozen vehicles will overtake me at speed leaving less than a foot gap. If I indicate a right turn at that moment I loose my lower arm!

Cyclists that shoot through red lights should be shot!

Richard


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## antiquesam (Apr 6, 2019)

Why are we urged to have more cycle routes? We have a cycle path adjacent to one of the three roads into Portsmouth. The road is fast and dangerous, but the lycra brigade seem to want to dice with death rather than use the £250,000 cycleway.
As a rambler it would be nice if cyclists treated walkers as courteously as they expect to be treated by motorists.


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## caledonia (Apr 6, 2019)

I give cyclists the same room as I would give a car but road cyclists don’t abide to the same rule when they ride two abreast, you wouldn’t drive two abreast in a car. Road cyclists are a different breed to mountain bikers. I have a bell on my bike which surprises a lot of walkers but it’s useless when they have music blaring in their ears. Every bike sold must be supplied with a bell and reflectors by law.


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## mark61 (Apr 6, 2019)

Cyclist ride two or more abreast because it's safer. Motorist have to overtake them properly, rather than squeezing past and pushing them in the verge.


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## GreggBear (Apr 6, 2019)

antiquesam said:


> My experience of driving a 7.5t lorry with two sets of wing mirrors, a downward mirror on the top of the nearside door and a downward facing mirror above the windscreen I didn't have time to look through the windscreen. I would imagine any new regs would only apply to new vehicles over 7.5t.



And why should it only apply to vehicles over 7.5t? Many drivers of smaller vehicles should never be allowed on the roads. HGV drivers in general go through far stricter training/testing than small vehicle drivers. A lot of cyclists seem to have a death wish riding through red lights & on footpaths & generally showing no consideration for anyone else, be it drivers or pedestrians. Yet when they do come to greif it's usually down to "that blind tosser" driving that big truck!  I've had cars pull onto motorways without even seeing the 44tonner that's trapped in the left hand lane by passing traffic. Usually, after either s******g themselves they either carry on as if they still haven't seen me or blow the horn at me as if it was all my fault! Strangely enough, bus drivers never seem to get much flack.


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## GreggBear (Apr 6, 2019)

wildebus said:


> The technology is there to have blind spot warnings for the driver without the need for cameras all round and screens.  You don't need to actually see what it in in your blind spot in order to take action;  you just need to know there is a potential 'thing' there and take appropriate action  (which is probably to take NO action in fact)
> 
> 
> I have "blind spot" warning lights that illuminate in my door mirrors that are a warning that there is 'something' there coming alongside me that I probably can't see in the mirror.
> I am sure if this technology can be fitted in a Vauxhall Corsa, it can be fitted in vehicles costing a hell of a lot more!


Maybe it's because of this kind of new technology that new drivers don't seem to have the same level of skill that older drivers do? Too much tech can lead people to feel they don't have to try as hard.


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## GreggBear (Apr 6, 2019)

***** said:


> I once followed a pair of cyclists doing just that for about one mile on a one way road.
> Had they been ridding single, it would have been wide enough to pass and leave a safe distance.



Highway code says cyclists should ride in single file. Funny how that gets ignored by the people who piss & moan about all the other rule breakers....


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## GreggBear (Apr 6, 2019)

While we're on about inconsiderate road users, would this be the time to mention horse riders? No tax/test/insurance, ignoring most rules of the road & lots of them ridden on the public highway by little girls who haven't a hope in he'll of keeping control of 3/4 of a ton of scared meat. Wonder what they would say if my 15yr old son was to take to the road in my van? Also,how come they never seem to get prosecuted for using their mobile phones while snarling up the highway? How much would the average dog owner be fined if they left piles of shit everywhere they went? Answers on a postcard please.....


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## Nabsim (Apr 6, 2019)

***** said:


> When I was driving back and forth to Spain and Portugal, Mrs G used to say that car drivers should, have to spend a few hours with a truck driver before they could sit their test
> They just have no idea!



I always used to say you should complete 6 moths on a motorbike before being able to get any other license but it was never popular Graham lol

If they survived that long they should have an inkling on defensive driving


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## Nabsim (Apr 6, 2019)

Well I know I am perfect in all things (koff, koff) but I will admit to not allowing cyclists enough space on occasion. Not sure why it happens but have done it a couple of times in the motorhome, think i have left them plenty but when checking mirrors as I pass its only 18 inches past the end of the bars. I can only think its because the body is wider than the cab. Its something I am aware of though so shouldnt be a problem again.

Thats nothing to do with the topic though which is about all round vision. If I didnt have the extra mirrors for blind spots I would have pulled out on several occasions where it looks clear in main mirror but a car is actually alongside. Frightened me to death first time it happened that you could have a car that close and not see, of course it is a lot lower than my driving position. I think vehicles should be fitted with sufficient mirrors/cameras/technology to be able to see whats around, if the tech isnt there yet then fair enough post warnings but not if it is.


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## wildebus (Apr 6, 2019)

GreggBear said:


> Maybe it's because of this kind of new technology that new drivers don't seem to have the same level of skill that older drivers do? Too much tech can lead people to feel they don't have to try as hard.


you can say the same thing about anything.  Drivers don't have to lean over to wind down a window, or put as much effort into turning a corner if they have power steering, anticipate braking better as they have ABS, yadda yadda.

I've heard that kind of thing before and I don't agree.  These are all drivers AIDs, not replacement for common sense.  

I also don't follow this idea that all Lorry Drivers are some kind of super driver and car drivers are mostly idiots.  Lorry Drivers NEED to be better drivers as they could do a hell of a lot more damage with their vehicle driven badly than a car driver could, but I have seen just as many crap Lorry Drivers on the roads as Car Drivers.  Way too many of both.  I would like to ride my bike into the local town 5 miles away but there is no way I would with the way so many Lorrys drive on the road I would have to go on.  They are a bloody menace.


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## Deleted member 74361 (Apr 6, 2019)

Nabsim said:


> Thats nothing to do with the topic though which is about all round vision.* If I didnt have the extra mirrors for blind spots I would have pulled out on several occasions where it looks clear in main mirror but a car is actually alongside. Frightened me to death first time it happened that you could have a car that close and not see, of course it is a lot lower than my driving position. *I think vehicles should be fitted with sufficient mirrors/cameras/technology to be able to see whats around, if the tech isnt there yet then fair enough post warnings but not if it is.



I am uncertain whether when we are discussing 'extra mirrors' that we are talking about parabolic or kerbside mirrors, or both. Kerbside are useful for avoiding objects and certainly bicycles stationary alongside at traffic lights, but not much use for spotting overtaking/undertaking traffic until they are immediately under the mirror. Parabolic mirrors are in my view(pun) essential, and were the first things I added to my MH.

Parabolic mirrors give coverage in two ways which normal wing mirrors do not - firstly, as we are discussing they have a field of downward vision which picks up low vehicles alongside, secondly, they allow 45 degree vision when joining a main road/motorway from an angled slip road. To be effective I think they have to be the type which are about the width of wing mirrors, so neither the small stick-on types, nor maybe the small ones below e.g. Transit mirrors are adequate. I was fortunate to find ones from Merceded that had the same profile as the housing of our main mirrors so just bolted on.


Re Horses

Remember they were on our roads for centuries before cars - i.e. prior, as in priority? Just a thought. Probably none of them needed blinkers before motor cars came along to spook them. When overtaking a horse I do it with minimum revs and get 5m ahead before pulling back in - that usually gets a thank you from the rider.

Geoff


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## Nabsim (Apr 6, 2019)

nicholsong said:


> I am uncertain whether when we are discussing 'extra mirrors' that we are talking about parabolic or kerbside mirrors, or both. Kerbside are useful for avoiding objects and certainly bicycles stationary alongside at traffic lights, but not much use for spotting overtaking/undertaking traffic until they are immediately under the mirror. Parabolic mirrors are in my view(pun) essential, and were the first things I added to my MH.
> 
> Parabolic mirrors give coverage in two ways which normal wing mirrors do not - firstly, as we are discussing they have a field of downward vision which picks up low vehicles alongside, secondly, they allow 45 degree vision when joining a main road/motorway from an angled slip road. To be effective I think they have to be the type which are about the width of wing mirrors, so neither the small stick-on types, nor maybe the small ones below e.g. Transit mirrors are adequate. I was fortunate to find ones from Merceded that had the same profile as the housing of our main mirrors so just bolted on.
> 
> ...



Sorry Geoff I meant parabolic but couldnt remember the name 

Mine too are the Mercedes originals hat are in the same housing as normal mirrors


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## Tbear (Apr 6, 2019)

***** said:


> As an ex Trucker, also a car driver, motorhomer, motorcyclist,  scooter ridder and cyclist, there are selfish idiots everywhere and on or in all forms of road transport.:danger:



I have never driven a truck but I have ridden horses on the road so I feel as qualified as you to completely agree with that statement!

Richard


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## caledonia (Apr 6, 2019)

mark61 said:


> Cyclist ride two or more abreast because it's safer. Motorist have to overtake them properly, rather than squeezing past and pushing them in the verge.



Inconsiderate Road cyclists ride two abreast. Mountain bikers when forced to cycle on the road ride in single file and wave vehicles past when safe to do so. Road cyclists totally ignore other traffic when riding in peleton fashion trying to beat Strava times. Nothing to do with safety.


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## mark61 (Apr 6, 2019)

Some mountain bikers are also road cyclists. I've been waved on by road cyclist, maybe because I show some consideration. It's done for safety, it's everything to do with safety.
I am not suggesting there are no ignorant road cyclist, same as any other road user.


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## caledonia (Apr 6, 2019)

mark61 said:


> Some mountain bikers are also road cyclists. I've been waved on by road cyclist, maybe because I show some consideration. It's done for safety, it's everything to do with safety.
> I am not suggesting there are no ignorant road cyclist, same as any other road user.



I’ve just driven down the A85 and on approaching Callendar i met a large tail back and what’s at the front a peleton of cyclists. If they had been in single file cars would be able to get past safely but they prefer to force cars overtaking into the way of oncoming traffic. Nothing safe about that. It’s against the law and very inconsiderate. The highway. Code states you shouldn’t ride 2 abreast on narrow or busy roads and the A85 is both narrow and busy.


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## mark61 (Apr 6, 2019)

caledonia said:


> I’ve just driven down the A85 and on approaching Callendar i met a large tail back and what’s at the front a peleton of cyclists. If they had been in single file cars would be able to get past safely but they prefer to force cars overtaking into the way of oncoming traffic. Nothing safe about that. It’s against the law and very inconsiderate.



It's not against the law to ride two abreast. Yes, sometimes it is inconsiderate.
Don't go bothering to quote the Highway Code, an advisory does not reflect a legal requirement. 

So, to sum up, it's done for safety, it's not against the law, and sometimes it is inconsiderate.


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## caledonia (Apr 6, 2019)

mark61 said:


> It's not against the law to ride two abreast. Yes, sometimes it is inconsiderate.
> Don't go bothering to quote the Highway Code, an advisory does not reflect a legal requirement.
> 
> So, to sum up, it's done for safety, it's not against the law, and sometimes it is inconsiderate.



We will have to agree to disagree on this one.


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## mark61 (Apr 6, 2019)

Perhaps a link may help.. Of course I know not all cyclist are considerate, but when two abreast technique is used correctly it is better for everyone.

UK Road Cycling Laws and Rules Explained: Cycling Two Abreast


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## caledonia (Apr 6, 2019)

mark61 said:


> Perhaps a link may help.. Of course I know not all cyclist are considerate, but when two abreast technique is used correctly it is better for everyone.
> 
> UK Road Cycling Laws and Rules Explained: Cycling Two Abreast



I understand the law but on a road like the A85 when there’s a cycle way running along side from Callendar to Killin it’s very inconsiderate.


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## Fisherman (Apr 6, 2019)

mark61 said:


> Some mountain bikers are also road cyclists. I've been waved on by road cyclist, maybe because I show some consideration. It's done for safety, it's everything to do with safety.
> I am not suggesting there are no ignorant road cyclist, same as any other road user.



Correct Mark, my mate is a keen cyclist and they ride side by side to stop idiot motorists from overtaking far to close to them. When riding alone he cycles one third from the middle of the road for the same reason.
A few years ago he was struck by a wing mirror and knocked of his bike, spending three days in hospital and a month of work with his injuries. The driver drove on leaving him on the road. And being self employed he lost a months earnings, and let a few of his customers down.

I agree with the comments about poor road use from all types of road users.

The big problem with cyclists is many are relatively new to the sport and some lack enough experience.
Also in the last ten years or so cycling has become much more popular, increasing the amount of bikes on the road. Many motorists get far to close to cyclists when over taking. You should allow a gap of 1-1.5m when overtaking. I have seen cars missing cyclists by inches many times.

The only issue I have is when they cycle in large groups. I was heading for aberfoyle last year and was confronted by a line of around 30-40 cyclists making it dangerous to overtake. I reckon they should have split up into smaller groups.


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## caledonia (Apr 6, 2019)

I will bow out this tread now the oracle has posted before I get accused of being a liar


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## Asterix (Apr 6, 2019)

***** said:


> I once followed a pair of cyclists doing just that for about one mile on a one way road.
> Had they been ridding single, it would have been wide enough to pass and leave a safe distance.



They have the law on their side,DVLA guidelines recommend riding two abreast.


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## Fisherman (Apr 6, 2019)

Asterix said:


> They have the law on their side,DVLA guidelines recommend riding two abreast.



Asterix this is taken from DVLA guidelines 


Cyclists are allowed to cycle two abreast! Rule 66 states you should never cycle more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads. This means cycles are perfectly legal to cycle side by side on most roads in the UK.

To me this is common sense. On most roads two abreast is fine.
The problem with this guideline is it lacks detail.
What is a narrow road, what is busy, how sharp is a sharp bend.
They also state that when turning a sharp corner  or on a roundabout they should ride single file.


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## antiquesam (Apr 6, 2019)

GreggBear said:


> And why should it only apply to vehicles over 7.5t? Many drivers of smaller vehicles should never be allowed on the roads. HGV drivers in general go through far stricter training/testing than small vehicle drivers. A lot of cyclists seem to have a death wish riding through red lights & on footpaths & generally showing no consideration for anyone else, be it drivers or pedestrians. Yet when they do come to greif it's usually down to "that blind tosser" driving that big truck!  I've had cars pull onto motorways without even seeing the 44tonner that's trapped in the left hand lane by passing traffic. Usually, after either s******g themselves they either carry on as if they still haven't seen me or blow the horn at me as if it was all my fault! Strangely enough, bus drivers never seem to get much flack.


I don't think I suggested it was a good idea, merely that it was likely, as most commercial vehicle laws don't take in anything under 3.5t, eg tachographs.


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## Asterix (Apr 6, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> Asterix this is taken from DVLA guidelines
> 
> 
> Cyclists are allowed to cycle two abreast! Rule 66 states you should never cycle more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads. This means cycles are perfectly legal to cycle side by side on most roads in the UK.
> ...



As they say,the law is an ass and people will take it as read,but whether it's trucks side swiping cars,or cyclists not thinking,most accidents and near misses would be avoided if defensive driving was given a higher priority than learning all the rules and regs.


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## Asterix (Apr 6, 2019)

***** said:


> Maybe so, but if you read my post (one full mile) what about manners!
> They certainly had none!:scared:
> 
> edit
> It was along a seaside prom and associated lead in and out road



I had exactly that situation a couple of weeks ago,narrow road,two cyclist one of which pulled in and let me pass after half a mile,his mate didn't for quite some time.The way I deal with them is to enjoy the scenery while matching their speed, that'll teach em!


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## wildebus (Apr 6, 2019)

Asterix said:


> As they say,the law is an ass and people will take it as read,but whether it's trucks side swiping cars,or cyclists not thinking,most accidents and near misses would be avoided if *defensive driving was given a higher priority than learning all the rules and regs*.


In the first job I had which came with a Company Car (a few decades ago now  ), the company started a policy of all company car drivers to attend a RoSPA Driving Course, which if I remember correctly was called a "Defensive Driving Course" as opposed to an "Advanced Driving Course" such as run by the IAM.
It was a very useful course and seemed to be a lot more 'real-world' than the IAM type courses.

The motorbike tuition I did was along the same lines, with the recognition that in an argument between a motorbike and a car, the biker tends to be the one to come off worse irrelevant of who was legally in the right.  
This simple, if unfair, fact of life tends to be forgotten it seems, but I guess at least when someone is in hospital with a broken body, at least they can feel satisified that the other driver (unhurt and still driving around) broke more rules than they did.


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## Fisherman (Apr 6, 2019)

Asterix said:


> As they say,the law is an ass and people will take it as read,but whether it's trucks side swiping cars,or cyclists not thinking,most accidents and near misses would be avoided if defensive driving was given a higher priority than learning all the rules and regs.



I was pointing out that the dvla don’t recommend cyclists riding two abreast as you posted earlier.
What they actually state is it’s permissible, but should not be done on narrow roads, bends or roundabouts.

To me there is to much confrontation between vehicle drivers and cyclists.
This has led to some terrible accidents and sadly fatalities on our roads.
Yes cyclists can be idiots at times, as can every other road user.
But as has been posted earlier, vehicle drivers are normally unhurt whilst the cyclist suffers.
With this in mind I always cross over to the other side of the road when passing cyclists, and no matter how much of a hurry I am in, or how much of an idiot the cyclist may be, I put their safety first.


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## Asterix (Apr 6, 2019)

wildebus said:


> In the first job I had which came with a Company Car (a few decades ago now  ), the company started a policy of all company car drivers to attend a RoSPA Driving Course, which if I remember correctly was called a "Defensive Driving Course" as opposed to an "Advanced Driving Course" such as run by the IAM.
> It was a very useful course and seemed to be a lot more 'real-world' than the IAM type courses.
> 
> The motorbike tuition I did was along the same lines, with the recognition that in an argument between a motorbike and a car, the biker tends to be the one to come off worse irrelevant of who was legally in the right.
> This simple, if unfair, fact of life tends to be forgotten it seems, but I guess at least when someone is in hospital with a broken body, at least they can feel satisified that the other driver (unhurt and still driving around) broke more rules than they did.



I did one when I was around 15-16, unfortunately it was ordered by a judge:hammer: but nonetheless it was an experience that has served me well ever since.


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## runnach (Apr 6, 2019)

Long lines of cyclists can pose a more difficult challenge to passing drivers. A more compact group of two-abreast cyclists can make passing easier and more predictable. A two-abreast formation is approximately the width of a car, and cars should pass them as if they were passing a slower automobile

In addition the overtaking vehicle where this situation arises spends less time straddling the opposite carriageway 

1,5 is classed as the minimum that should be maintained when overtaking 

Channa


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## st3v3 (Apr 6, 2019)

channa said:


> Long lines of cyclists can pose a more difficult challenge to passing drivers. A more compact group of two-abreast cyclists can make passing easier and more predictable. A two-abreast formation is approximately the width of a car, and cars should pass them as if they were passing a slower automobile
> 
> In addition the overtaking vehicle where this situation arises spends less time straddling the opposite carriageway
> 
> ...



Yea, I've been stuck behind slow cars/tractors for mile after mile, that I haven't been able to pass. And I'll pass where a lot wouldn't. 

I've been behind many single cyclists that I've pretty much passed instantly . Nobody has ever been hurt.

I've had to wait behind 2 abreast cyclists for longer than I would like to, because I'm now at a crawl, and don't have the momentum to pass, because I've had to wait for the other side of the road to be clear.

Every road user should just do all they can to get out of the way. I do, why can't you? The classic is someone turning right that blocks the road, when with better road positioning would be no problem at all. Cucumbers.

Today, I'm in the truck at just over 50 where cars can do 60, and I'm constantly on the lookout for traffic building behind me. When it does, I'll stop and let them pass. Much rather that than someone doing a risky overtake. Why can't everyone do that? Whatever type of traffic they are...


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## CarlandHels (Apr 6, 2019)

st3v3 said:


> Yea, I've been stuck behind slow cars/tractors for mile after mile, that I haven't been able to pass. And I'll pass where a lot wouldn't.
> 
> I've been behind many single cyclists that I've pretty much passed instantly . Nobody has ever been hurt.
> 
> ...



Comes back to manners, patience,  courtesy for others. Sadly alot of time folk just don't have it the same as 20+years ago..


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## Fisherman (Apr 6, 2019)

***** said:


> I seem to have said that 10 posts ago in post 55.
> Manners are sadly lacking in the whole of society now a days



Yes *****, and poor manners and aggressive attitudes and driving lead to families losing loved ones.

Why, because someone was late for a dentist appointment, or they simply don’t like cyclists getting in their way.


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## CarlandHels (Apr 7, 2019)

20 mins late in the life is better than 20 years early in tuther one...


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## Fisherman (Apr 7, 2019)

yorkshireCPLE said:


> 20 mins late in the life is better than 20 years early in tuther one...



Or better than years in custody, followed by the rest of your life regretting causing a death because you were either impatient or angry.


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## Deleted member 74361 (Apr 7, 2019)

Well after 7 pages we know a lot about what people think about drivers of lorries, horse riders and cyclists, but have no answer to whether more mirrors will be a legal requirement for MHs.


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## runnach (Apr 7, 2019)

nicholsong said:


> Well after 7 pages we know a lot about what people think about drivers of lorries, horse riders and cyclists, but have no answer to whether more mirrors will be a legal requirement for MHs.



You have been here long enough to know by now posts degenerate into the persecution of other road users its like groundhog day.

I agree with ***** ,having been in the motor trade I cant recall any legislation that was applied retrospective .BUT there is a first time for everything, and the set of clowns in charge at the moment be a brave man to bet one way or the tuther

Channa


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## mark61 (Apr 7, 2019)

Found the article.

All new UK cars to have speed limiters by 2022 under EU plans | World news | The Guardian


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## runnach (Apr 7, 2019)

mark61 said:


> Found the article.
> 
> All new UK cars to have speed limiters by 2022 under EU plans | World news | The Guardian



I thought we were chatting mirrors and blindspots ,,,,SPeed limiters read this myself Maureen the Kawasaki has just increased in value I think 

Channa


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## mark61 (Apr 7, 2019)

channa said:


> I thought we were chatting mirrors and blindspots ,,,,SPeed limiters read this myself Maureen the Kawasaki has just increased in value I think
> 
> Channa




Just posting link to article that the OP started thread with, because the link doesn't work in the original post. 

Now we know what we're ment to talking about.


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## mark61 (Apr 7, 2019)

channa said:


> You have been here long enough to know by now posts degenerate into the persecution of other road users its like groundhog day.
> 
> I agree with ***** ,having been in the motor trade I cant recall any legislation that was applied retrospective .BUT there is a first time for everything, and the set of clowns in charge at the moment be a brave man to bet one way or the tuther
> 
> Channa



Can only think of one regarding vehicles, well at least as far as MOT is concerned.  Windscreen washers.


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## caledonia (Apr 7, 2019)

nicholsong said:


> Well after 7 pages we know a lot about what people think about drivers of lorries, horse riders and cyclists, but have no answer to whether more mirrors will be a legal requirement for MHs.



About 6 years ago mot regs changed for trucks regarding n/s blind spot mirror. It involved replacing mirror glass to one with greater curvature giving larger view.


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## Nabsim (Apr 7, 2019)

I dont know if it was a legal requirement or a company policy but I remember about 20 years ago all wagons coming in to the quarries had to get reversing cameras fitted. It was a blanket rule no matter what the age of the vehicle. It may have only been quarries I dont know but HSE/Mine & Quarries Inspectors are very keen due to high incidence of death compared to other industries back then


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## Deleted member 74361 (Apr 7, 2019)

Nabsim said:


> I dont know if it was a legal requirement or a company policy but I remember about 20 years ago all wagons coming in to the quarries had to get reversing cameras fitted. It was a blanket rule no matter what the age of the vehicle. It may have only been quarries I dont know but HSE/Mine & Quarries Inspectors are very keen due to high incidence of death compared to other industries back then



Well camera helps identification for the Coroner of the victim before they were squished out of recognition.

Better to have a Banksman.


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## Nabsim (Apr 7, 2019)

nicholsong said:


> Well camera helps identification for the Coroner of the victim before they were squished out of recognition.
> 
> Better to have a Banksman.



I have been out of the quarries for 20 years now so could have changed but I dont think they did away with the banksman while I was there. I agree with you but often used to see curtain sided artics backing into a print place near where I worked without a banksman.


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