# Engine Management Light (Yellow) comes on after refuel



## fairytooth

Has anyone had this problem?  We were in France recently, everything running fine then about 20 mins after a fill up with diesel the yellow engine management light came on.  The engine continued running as normal and I couldn't find anything wrong under the bonnet.  After an overnight stop the light had disappeared and we were fine until about 20 mins after the next refuel several days later.  This pattern has continued about 4 or 5 times now.  Got home without any other problems so I'm wondering if it is rubbish French diesel or something else.  It's a Fiat Ducato 2.3JTD and was serviced just a month ago (except for the air filter which they couldn't get off!!)

Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks in advance.


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## scotchjock

*engine management light*



fairytooth said:


> Has anyone had this problem?  We were in France recently, everything running fine then about 20 mins after a fill up with diesel the yellow engine management light came on.  The engine continued running as normal and I couldn't find anything wrong under the bonnet.  After an overnight stop the light had disappeared and we were fine until about 20 mins after the next refuel several days later.  This pattern has continued about 4 or 5 times now.  Got home without any other problems so I'm wondering if it is rubbish French diesel or something else.  It's a Fiat Ducato 2.3JTD and was serviced just a month ago (except for the air filter which they couldn't get off!!)
> 
> Any thoughts would be appreciated, thanks in advance.



Possibly traces of moisture in the fuel system. Did they change the fuel filter at the service?


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## fairytooth

I will need to check the service check list but I think they should have.  Thanks for the reply.


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## maingate

I believe that there is a water sensor on the lower part of the fuel filter housing. Take it back to the garage for them to check it out. It might have a bad connection or similar if it has been disturbed during the recent service.


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## fairytooth

Will do, thanks for the tip.


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## Deleted member 3270

Hi Fairytooth,
Glad you got home o.k 
you need to get your van plugged into auto diagnostics , there is a possible fault with a sensor or worse i think it will not be a problem with bad fuel or water in the filter , having said that some times the engine management light may come on and then go off and its just a glitch in the system , if the light comes on and stays on thats the time to worry
Regards Keith


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## torwood

fairytooth said:


> ... the yellow engine management light came on.  The engine continued running as normal and I couldn't find anything wrong under the bonnet.  After an overnight stop the light had disappeared ... It's a Fiat Ducato 2.3JTD ...



Hi I have the same engine and problem and from articles in MMM and online searching so have many others.   Mine started in 2010 in Belgium - I thought it was electrical due to vibration due to the state of the roads in Poland and Belgium.   I stopped and checked user manual which said it was a fault with the fuel injection system but was not a critical fault.   It is an intermittent fault and has now come and gone many times and the symptoms are worsening.   I have removed and checked every electrical connection involved and can find no obvious fault.   

I took it for its MOT last July and for £40 they told me the fault code in the Engine Mangement System (EMS) On Board Diagnostics (OBD) 'suggested' the fault was the 'Throttle Actuator' but that the diagnosis is not accurate as one fault can often show symptoms of another fault and I am reluctant to change parts for the sake of it.   Finding a good experienced mechanic rather than a 'part changer' is an issue.   Having heard some of the horror stories of high bills to change components that didn't cure the fault I have lived with it for now.

I am now, occasionally getting rough running at certain speeds and occasionally the engine starts but will not 'rev up' switching off and restarting usually cures that.   I have tried fuel treatments additives with no success.   I am coming round to the fact that it may be the throttle at fault in my case and will likely change that soon.

Re the light coming and going the OBD logs each fault when it occurs.   Your fault is an intermittent one and as such the OBD logs it and only shows a fault light if it is continuous or if it is triggered three times in a set period of time.   Similarly if the fault clears itself the EMS will reset the fault light although it will still be logged, with time & date, etc, in the OBD.

I am going in to a local garage tomorrow to see if they can service and MOT my vehicle (not a Fiat dealer) and I will discuss the range of faults and see what they suggest.   I may get them to change the Throttle Actuator but will see what they suggest first.

Robert


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## maingate

Go on to the Fiatforum (Ducato section).

There is a current thread similar to this one. Somebody, a mechanic I believe, says he always deletes certain parameters from the EMS. From memory, they are '1600' codes. He reckons they do nothing but cause problems and must not be needed (according to him).


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## fairytooth

Thanks for the tips.  I didn't know about the Ducato forum. Nothing specific found there but good to know about.  I have a mechanic who is going to drain the fuel filter to see if that is the problem.  Otherwise, back to the service garage.  Cheers.


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## Deleted member 9215

hi there
i had the same problem with my ford. told that as the van is not used for long periods moisture will build up in censors (runs on low power till hot then clears) still did it after service with new filters ect  but now its used more the problem is gone.


dunk


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## just jane

I had the same in my Ducato before its first service with me(it was 10yrs old and I dont know how often it had been run in the months before I bought it) and was told similar to dunk, it was sorted by a fuel filter change at the service.


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## Trippytinker

> was serviced just a month ago (except for the air filter which they couldn't get off!!


)
I'd be a bit concerned about the quality of the service if they couldn't change the air-filter. You'd  be wise to try and get that sorted sooner rather than later.


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## Nosha

If you read the handbook it will say that it's acceptable for this light to come on now and again - we had the same thing happen on only our 3rd trip out in our new 2.8jtd.

Only Italians can a warning light which you then ignore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## windyjools

I had the same problem with my Iveco (very similar engine to the Fiat) in Morocco. I cleaned the fuel filter several times and eventually replaced it, the problem stopped and hasn't re-occurred. Use good quality filters, not cheap Thaiwanese or similar, modern engines are a bit sensitive and saving a few quid on a filter isn't worth it. 175,000 miles and still running sweet proves it!


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## torwood

torwood said:


> ....I am going in to a local garage tomorrow to see if they can service and MOT my vehicle (not a Fiat dealer) and I will discuss the range of faults and see what they suggest.   I may get them to change the Throttle Actuator but will see what they suggest first...


 
UPDATE - I have just had vehicle serviced and MOT'd by my local garage.   They investigated the fault but have now pointed me to a Fiat dealer where I have now taken the vehicle.   The Fiat garage have contacted me today and advise that the Manifold Throttle Control Valve needs to be replaced and a replacement 'modified' wiring harness also needs to be fitted replacing the original harness.   Work is under way and I get the vehicle back on Friday.   Cost will be £700!.:beer:

Robert


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## Nosha

Bloody hell! £700!! I think I would have taken the bulb out!!!!!!!!!!!


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## fairytooth

Well I was pretty sure that my particular problem was something to do with water ingress when filling up.  My mechanic showed me how to open the fuel filter valve and drain off any water/contaminants.  Easy to do with a flat head screwdriver if you know where to look.

The result is that the light has disappeared now and the engine continues to run smoothly.

If anyone wants to know where to look on a Fiat Ducato for the valve, feel free to contact me.

P.S. Thanks for all your valuable comments and suggestions


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## John H

Nosha said:


> If you read the handbook it will say that it's acceptable for this light to come on now and again - we had the same thing happen on only our 3rd trip out in our new 2.8jtd.
> 
> Only Italians can a warning light which you then ignore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Ditto - last year, ours came on several times but then quickly went off again. The first time, I immediately stopped and read the handbook. When I started the engine again there was no light and it hasn't come on since the latest service, so the advice about filters would seem to be good advice (although I have to say I haven't a clue about what happens under the bonnet!).


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## magnuscy

*Help with water ingress*



fairytooth said:


> Well I was pretty sure that my particular problem was something to do with water ingress when filling up.  My mechanic showed me how to open the fuel filter valve and drain off any water/contaminants.  Easy to do with a flat head screwdriver if you know where to look.
> 
> The result is that the light has disappeared now and the engine continues to run smoothly.
> 
> If anyone wants to know where to look on a Fiat Ducato for the valve, feel free to contact me.
> 
> P.S. Thanks for all your valuable comments and suggestions


 
First of all, thanks for you excellent post describing the problem with the engine management lamp. I own a 2007 Fiat Ducato (2,3 120 BHP) and got the same problem since a while back. Lamp is almost constantly lit. Sometimes it can go off after a long highway trip but usually comes back on a day or two afterwards. I have also suspected it had something to do with water ingress in the fuel tank but my mechanic claims that it is a faulty 'Throttle control' and wants to charge me 500 euros to change it. Since I live in Cyprus my access to qualified Fiat mechanics are somewhat limited I have a hard time getting a second opinion. 

I would really appreciate if you would be willing to share the info on how to drain any water. Have flat head screwdriver 

/Magnus


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## wolly

*wolly*

hi 
i have same problem took to local garage
and it came up fuel heater sensor.eml
comes on now and then dose not seam
to bother it. dose not go on to limpmode
so just keep on trucking all the best..


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## Nosha

Yes it seems like Fairytooth could do with enlightening us with his/her quick drain method, I have a new filter ready to fit but it looks VERY cramped and I'm sure the rubber mounts holding the air cleaner body will break off as well!


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## fairytooth

magnuscy said:


> First of all, thanks for you excellent post describing the problem with the engine management lamp. I own a 2007 Fiat Ducato (2,3 120 BHP) and got the same problem since a while back. Lamp is almost constantly lit. Sometimes it can go off after a long highway trip but usually comes back on a day or two afterwards. I have also suspected it had something to do with water ingress in the fuel tank but my mechanic claims that it is a faulty 'Throttle control' and wants to charge me 500 euros to change it. Since I live in Cyprus my access to qualified Fiat mechanics are somewhat limited I have a hard time getting a second opinion.
> 
> I would really appreciate if you would be willing to share the info on how to drain any water. Have flat head screwdriver
> 
> /Magnus


 
Hi Magnus, well 'touch wood' it seems ok for me now so maybe it did the trick.  The fuel filter is located high up on the right hand side of the engine compartment (as you are looking into it) You should be able to actually see the fairly large screwhead (grey plastic) looking at you horizontally.  As soon as you unscrew it, diesel will drip out below.  The screw can come all the way out (don't panic if it does) but make sure you have something to catch the mess underneath the van.  Ideally I would have run the fuel almost empty then drain off the rest.  Obviously you want a few spare cans of diesel handy too! Screw back up, fill with fuel and it will take a few turns of the engine before it will start.  The light should go off almost straight away.  Also you could think about putting one of the many fuel cleaning additives to you diesel to clean the injectors.  I have read there is 'diesel bug' which is bacteria that can live in diesel which is organic, plus numerous other contaminants like water, wax in cold weather, etc, etc.  Good luck!  Let me know how it goes.


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## fairytooth

****UPDATE****
I gave you slightly duff info on the appearance of the fuel filter drain screw (going from memory!) The fuel filter itself is housed in a black vertical cylinder about 1ft high and 4ins diameter.  I haven't had this dismantled myself.  On the front of this is a grey screw angled out of the cylinder.  That is the drain screw.  Sorry if I misled anyone.

This is on an '07 Fiat Ducato 2.3 JTD.


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## Fugg

I get that yellow light coming on the dash every time i start the van, it stays on for 4 or 5 minutes of driving then goes off and stays off the rest of the journey. To be on the safe side i got the fuel filter replaced but it made no difference, i dont use the van very often so i expect it could be condensation being detected by the fuel filter sensor.

the same warning light appeared once on my last van which was an identical citroen relay but the older pre-ecu one. i freaked out a bit as I noticed it about 10 minutes after driving off the ferry in Belgium. checked over all the vitals (oil,water etc) and carried on my journey, the light went off after an hour or two of driving. Looking back i think it had something to do with the moisture in the air when at sea, the van was parked on an open deck with howling winds, rain and sea spray.


my old van was a 1999 citroen relay and the new one is a 2001 relay, same as the ducato but rebadged.


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