# Just bought a van today



## Deleted member 32902 (Jun 23, 2018)

Today I bought an Eldiss firestorm. Picking it up on Tuesday. Now, it has two seatbelts in the rear, u shape lounge. can anyone tell me how many passengers I can carry in the rear, what is the law regarding seatbelts , or the lack of them. can I carry four in the rear, even although there are only two seatbelts.
seamus


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## The laird (Jun 23, 2018)

Nope only two .


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## trevskoda (Jun 23, 2018)

Depends on the year seamus,how many does it say on log book,your ins will tell you.
Law says after 2012 all and only seats with belts and marked as so can have a ass in it for travel.


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## mark61 (Jun 23, 2018)

Info on belts here.

Motorhome Seatbelts - Time to belt up?


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## Deleted member 32902 (Jun 23, 2018)

its a 2004 trev, some vans don't have any seatbelts in the rear so surely if there are no rear seatbelts you can still sit in the rear?
Does anyone have one, be obliged for any info on this van, quite keen to buy it as it has very low miles, just over 6,000
seamus


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## Deleted member 32902 (Jun 23, 2018)

mark61 said:


> Info on belts here.
> 
> Motorhome Seatbelts - Time to belt up?



Thanks for that Mark, if I understand this correctly I would be ok to carry 4 in the back?
seamus


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## trevskoda (Jun 23, 2018)

seamus said:


> its a 2004 trev, some vans don't have any seatbelts in the rear so surely if there are no rear seatbelts you can still sit in the rear?
> Does anyone have one, be obliged for any info on this van, quite keen to buy it as it has very low miles, just over 6,000
> seamus



When i built mine i went into all this,oct 2007 all vans must have belts for travel.
Even if a older van with no belts and you carry a person you can be had for careless or wreckless driving which is at the discration of a officer who stops you,also you will find the ins co will not cover you which when stopped will lead to the above crime.


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## QFour (Jun 23, 2018)

In an accident people who are not fastened in turn into missiles. The higher the impact the harder they hit. Driving with anyone in the rear who is not fastened in is just asking for trouble no matter what the law says. You will be lucky to find a MH with six belted seats.


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## Deleted member 32902 (Jun 23, 2018)

QFour said:


> In an accident people who are not fastened in turn into missiles. The higher the impact the harder they hit. Driving with anyone in the rear who is not fastened in is just asking for trouble no matter what the law says. You will be lucky to find a MH with six belted seats.



now I know how to get rid of that f*cker, she is going in the back without a belt, job done.
seamus.


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## trevskoda (Jun 23, 2018)

QFour said:


> In an accident people who are not fastened in turn into missiles. The higher the impact the harder they hit. Driving with anyone in the rear who is not fastened in is just asking for trouble no matter what the law says. You will be lucky to find a MH with six belted seats.



Mine has.


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## QFour (Jun 23, 2018)

Ok .. Motorhomes from known manufacturers ..:lol-053:


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## trevskoda (Jun 23, 2018)

Cheerful Charlie said:


> It's the pc brigade all trying to make you feel guilty saying it's reckless to carry passengers in a motorhome without seat belts.
> 2007 is the year I believe the law says you must have designated travel seats .
> To be honest any passengers in the rear of a motorhome want a check up from the neck up as your going to get dead in a good smash.
> The chances of anyone actually deciding to prosecute under some possible chance of succeeding for unsafe load etc is mainly in the minds of those that worry about everything and really shouldn't be allowed out alone.



march 2007 is the date in which under floor plates to the required size must be fitted,2012 is when the law states seats for conveance must be marked as such,however the eu never got together and set a common sine for said seats so mot let them through,i had to spend nights readinf vh construction and use for all this.
When i first took my van the young chap at mot station failed it,i then went to top man and after pointing out the regs on seats and belts the admitted defeat and passed my van,so been there got the t/shirt.


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## trevskoda (Jun 23, 2018)

QFour said:


> Ok .. Motorhomes from known manufacturers ..:lol-053:



Law states only seats with belts can be used when driving,you could have a hundred seats if you wish for sitting in when of road.


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## 2cv (Jun 23, 2018)

QFour said:


> Ok .. Motorhomes from known manufacturers ..:lol-053:



Autograph 79-6 - Bailey of Bristol


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## Deleted member 32902 (Jun 23, 2018)

Now that I have yee'se all at it I'm going for a lie down for my job here is done:goodluck::wave:
seamus


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## barryd (Jun 23, 2018)

seamus said:


> Today I bought an Eldiss firestorm. Picking it up on Tuesday. Now, it has two seatbelts in the rear, u shape lounge. can anyone tell me how many passengers I can carry in the rear, what is the law regarding seatbelts , or the lack of them. can I carry four in the rear, even although there are only two seatbelts.
> seamus



What TF?  Some Rock n Roll Rebel you are!  you can carry whatever you can fit in it.  In the 80s we used to cram 9 or 10 into a 1967 Commer Caravenette and go over to Ireland for the May fly and we had a boat on a trailer.   The Jamesons did flow, the guitar came out and the midnight holyhead ferry with an all night bar was the place to be!


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## trevskoda (Jun 23, 2018)

barryd said:


> What TF?  Some Rock n Roll Rebel you are!  you can carry whatever you can fit in it.  In the 80s we used to cram 9 or 10 into a 1967 Commer Caravenette and go over to Ireland for the May fly and we had a boat on a trailer.   The Jamesons did flow, the guitar came out and the midnight holyhead ferry with an all night bar was the place to be!



There was not much law and order down south in them days,not much has changed:scared:


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## Deleted member 32902 (Jun 23, 2018)

barryd said:


> What TF?  Some Rock n Roll Rebel you are!  you can carry whatever you can fit in it.  In the 80s we used to cram 9 or 10 into a 1967 Commer Caravenette and go over to Ireland for the May fly and we had a boat on a trailer.   The Jamesons did flow, the guitar came out and the midnight holyhead ferry with an all night bar was the place to be!



when I get this van Barry I WILL flaunt the law, taking the grandchildren to Blackpool for the illumination? not a feckin problem, the luton will be utilised, the toilet will be utilised, I'll have the little f*ckers crammed in everywhere, feck the peelers:hammer::lol-053: The truth is I bought the van for me an mrs seamus.
seamus.


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## campervanannie (Jun 23, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> Mine has.



And beautiful Yorkshire seats they are too.


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## QFour (Jun 23, 2018)

2cv said:


> Autograph 79-6 - Bailey of Bristol



Only Bailey could manufacture something with a Double Bed measuring 3’ 4” wide ..


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## campervanannie (Jun 23, 2018)

seamus said:


> when I get this van Barry I WILL flaunt the law, taking the grandchildren to Blackpool for the illumination? not a feckin problem, the luton will be utilised, the toilet will be utilised, I'll have the little f*ckers crammed in everywhere, feck the peelers:hammer::lol-053: The truth is I bought the van for me an mrs seamus.
> seamus.



Does this mean you will join us at a meet one day soon.


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## trevskoda (Jun 23, 2018)

campervanannie said:


> And beautiful Yorkshire seats they are too.



Very comfy and i have them on a swivel to turn round to the table which fixes between them.:wave:


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## Tezza33 (Jun 23, 2018)

We went to the Landing Beaches in 2007, we have three seats with seatbelts and a side bench which is not suitable for travelling passengers but my BIL and his wife and teenage son wanted to come with us, we had a car behind on an A frame which carried luggage but we must have been overweight, we were pulled and checked by Gendarmes on a routine stop, they came in and checked the cupboards, toilet, under the bench, car boot then let us go on our way, no mention of passengers not strapped in or the A frame.


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## Deleted member 32902 (Jun 23, 2018)

campervanannie said:


> Does this mean you will join us at a meet one day soon.



Ye never know annie, bottle of jamesons and I'll put some manners on the feckin lot of yee'se:lol-053:
seamus.


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## campervanannie (Jun 23, 2018)

seamus said:


> Ye never know annie, bottle of jamesons and I'll put some manners on the feckin lot of yee'se:lol-053:
> seamus.



I’ll make sure I keep a bottle in the van just in case.


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## n brown (Jun 23, 2018)

carry who you like , when you like - and if you get a pull, how come there's no belts on buses and trains and coaches ?


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## sparrks (Jun 24, 2018)

QFour said:


> Only Bailey could manufacture something with a Double Bed measuring 3’ 4” wide ..



And at widest point suggesting that it narrows.....


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## RichardHelen262 (Jun 24, 2018)

I wouldn’t want to carry any passengers at the back end of a plastic box legal or not



Dread to think what would happen if a truck were to run into the rear


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## phillybarbour (Jun 24, 2018)

Hope all goes well with the new van.


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## Robmac (Jun 24, 2018)

My van only has 3 seat belts Seamus.

Suits us fine. It means that we can only take one of the grandbrats with us, otherwise they would fight like cat and dog.


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## trevskoda (Jun 24, 2018)

n brown said:


> carry who you like , when you like - and if you get a pull, how come there's no belts on buses and trains and coaches ?



Not required on buses before a cert date,all new buses here are belted.
Some folk like to flout the law,maybe they have a get out of jail card.:hammer:naughty boy.


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## trevskoda (Jun 24, 2018)

With seamus having a new van  then no excuse for not coming back here for the twelth parades.:scared::lol-053::lol-053::lol-053:


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## RichardHelen262 (Jun 24, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> With seamus having a new van  then no excuse for not coming back here for the twelth parades.:scared::lol-053::lol-053::lol-053:



Only problem is he would have to sell the van and take out a second mortgage just to pay the extortionate ferry fares to get there


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## Wooie1958 (Jun 24, 2018)

helen262 said:


> Only problem is he would have to sell the van and take out a second mortgage just to pay the extortionate ferry fares to get there




Whatever happened to the cheap Cairnryan to Larne fares


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## trevskoda (Jun 24, 2018)

Wooie1958 said:


> Whatever happened to the cheap Cairnryan to Larne fares



I they get the arm in these days,maybe they dont want paddy/billy to leave the island.


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## trevskoda (Jun 24, 2018)

helen262 said:


> Only problem is he would have to sell the van and take out a second mortgage just to pay the extortionate ferry fares to get there



I agree the fairs are way over the top,its time someone pulled them about prices.:hammer:


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## Silver sprinter (Jun 24, 2018)

Think there was a report in mmm magazine  about rear seatbelt, and it's a grey area  not sure but think if it's side facing  it's ok, I know two garages that do not, and that are in each half, good Seamus  now get out and use it:camper::camper::camper:


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## Nabsim (Jun 24, 2018)

Silver sprinter said:


> Think there was a report in mmm magazine  about rear seatbelt, and it's a grey area  not sure but think if it's side facing  it's ok, I know two garages that do not, and that are in each half, good Seamus  now get out and use it:camper::camper::camper:



Contradictory regs do make it a grey area but I know you can carry with side seats it’s only the potential unsecured loads bit but unlikely to be applied unless someone is very lipped with a plod.

It was easily solved for me when I got insurance, they asked how many seats had belts and that was end of the story. It’s insurance that will have the over ruling say.


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## runnach (Jun 24, 2018)

My understanding is passengers should only be carried where there are adequate seat belts. There are no doubt exceptions due to age but I don't think the average policeman will be fully conversant as Trev found out getting a definitive answer, and VWalans tales of questioning the DVSA.

People are classed as a load ,and failure to secure a load correctly irrespective of what restraints there are is an offence for which you can be prosecuted.Peoples views on that whether belligerent or not is not really the issue.

Considering the lack of police, odds are you would need to be unlucky to get pulled. does it happen ? weigh bridge at Hartshead Moor suggests it does as does the facility just off the A1 in Wetherby 

Channa


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## trevskoda (Jun 24, 2018)

Silver sprinter said:


> Think there was a report in mmm magazine  about rear seatbelt, and it's a grey area  not sure but think if it's side facing  it's ok, I know two garages that do not, and that are in each half, good Seamus  now get out and use it:camper::camper::camper:



Side facing seats are a no no as far as ins co go.


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## Deleted member 32902 (Jun 24, 2018)

Thanks all, very helpful stuff, seamus will take all into consideration then do whatever the feck he wants:cool1: Confrontation is the name of the game, anything else is boring:wacko:
Its not a new van mind you, its done 6,000 miles so not looking for any problems. The days of the big stuff are gone, was fed up having to sneak/reverse out of aires because the big Apapaho wouldn't fit anywhere.:sad:
seamus


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## witzend (Jun 24, 2018)

What about a passenger who goes to the toilet while mh is moving ? Theres toilets on buses that get used while bus is in motion


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## wildebus (Jun 24, 2018)

Cheerful Charlie said:


> It's the pc brigade all trying to make you feel guilty saying it's reckless to carry passengers in a motorhome without seat belts.
> 2007 is the year I believe the law says you must have designated travel seats .
> To be honest any passengers in the rear of a motorhome want a check up from the neck up as your going to get dead in a good smash.
> The chances of anyone actually deciding to prosecute under some possible chance of succeeding for unsafe load etc is mainly in the minds of those that worry about everything and really shouldn't be allowed out alone.




Is this specifically for Motor Caravans ref 2007?
Rear Seatbelts in cars came in long before that as an obligatory fixture and if not fitted would be an MOT failure.  I - or rather a GF I had at the time - experienced this first hand as she bought an old-stock (1985 I think) unregistered Ford Escort in 1991 - so became a 'J' plate - and when it went for its first MOT in 1994 failed the MOT as a car registered in 1991 had to have all seats fitted with belts (which wasn't the case at the time the car was built).


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## trevskoda (Jun 24, 2018)

witzend said:


> What about a passenger who goes to the toilet while mh is moving ? Theres toilets on buses that get used while bus is in motion



Your talking total cr-p.:lol-049::lol-049::lol-049::wave:


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## trevskoda (Jun 24, 2018)

What ever you do seamus think safe and have many happy days away in the new van,health to wear.:goodluck:


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## Fazerloz (Jun 24, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> Contradictory regs do make it a grey area but I know you can carry with side seats it’s only the potential unsecured loads bit but unlikely to be applied unless someone is very lipped with a plod.
> 
> It was easily solved for me when I got insurance, they asked how many seats had belts and that was end of the story. It’s insurance that will have the over ruling say.



Since April 2012 it has been against the law to travel in any sideways facing seat due to safety – no matter what the age of the vehicle.
The exemptions are military and police vehicles.


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## Nabsim (Jun 24, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> Since April 2012 it has been against the law to travel in any sideways facing seat due to safety – no matter what the age of the vehicle.
> The exemptions are military and police vehicles.



Can you give me the reference for that legislation please? All I have read says about seat belts for side facing seat are not recommended not seen anything that says they can’t be used legally, not that I intend using them in any case.


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## Fazerloz (Jun 24, 2018)

In the 2012 regs it’s were I got the exemptions from as well. Feel free to wade through them. It’s also on here
The Legal Aspects of Driving a Motorhome | Motorhome Insurance and Campervan Insurance Quotes


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## campervanannie (Jun 25, 2018)

Seamus I sometimes well a lot of the time drive through the night and if Bill is with me he will be in bed asleep at the back of the MH no seatbelts there, so don’t worry be happy.


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## trevskoda (Jun 25, 2018)

campervanannie said:


> Seamus I sometimes well a lot of the time drive through the night and if Bill is with me he will be in bed asleep at the back of the MH no seatbelts there, so don’t worry be happy.



Annie you just love to flout the law,naughty girl.:hammer:


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## Nabsim (Jun 25, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> In the 2012 regs it’s were I got the exemptions from as well. Feel free to wade through them. It’s also on here
> The Legal Aspects of Driving a Motorhome | Motorhome Insurance and Campervan Insurance Quotes



That’s why I said it is what insurance say that will decide but that is not the law. If you want to check it is contradictory but includes:

Although side facing seats, with or without seat belts, are not illegal, we would not advise that they are used. This is because seat belts are not designed to be used with such seats. In the event of an accident, seat belts on these side facing seats may help to prevent the wearer being thrown around the vehicle or from being ejected, but in a frontal crash they can increase injury risk by subjecting vulnerable parts of the body to higher loads than seat belts used on forward facing seats.

Driving campervans with passengers - GOV.UK


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## Nabsim (Jun 25, 2018)

campervanannie said:


> Seamus I sometimes well a lot of the time drive through the night and if Bill is with me he will be in bed asleep at the back of the MH no seatbelts there, so don’t worry be happy.



That’s how I try to live Annie, don’t worry, be happy


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## witzend (Jun 25, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> Your talking total cr-p.:lol-049::lol-049::lol-049::wave:


Theres many other reasons you could be traveling while not being able to wear a seat belt making cup of tea or sandwiches etcl


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## trevskoda (Jun 25, 2018)

witzend said:


> Theres many other reasons you could be traveling while not being able to wear a seat belt making cup of tea or sandwiches etcl



Yes of coarse you can do that esp if one has a automatic.


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## Fazerloz (Jun 25, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> That’s why I said it is what insurance say that will decide but that is not the law. If you want to check it is contradictory but includes:
> 
> Although side facing seats, with or without seat belts, are not illegal, we would not advise that they are used. This is because seat belts are not designed to be used with such seats. In the event of an accident, seat belts on these side facing seats may help to prevent the wearer being thrown around the vehicle or from being ejected, but in a frontal crash they can increase injury risk by subjecting vulnerable parts of the body to higher loads than seat belts used on forward facing seats.
> 
> ...


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## wildebus (Jun 25, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> Nabsim said:
> 
> 
> > That’s why I said it is what insurance say that will decide but that is not the law. If you want to check it is contradictory but includes:
> ...


Not sure if the bit I emboldened in red was written with irony or in serious?
There is so much ambiguity when it comes to UK motoring legislation it is very hard to know what to actually believe is current/valid/enforced!  They say that when it comes to winning an argument it is always possible to find "proof" to support your POV on the Internet.  The same seems to be true of UK Motoring Legislation from .GOV.UK official publications on the Internet.

I replied to this thread about seat belts in cars and if it were different.  and after that reply, I looked into this further out of curiosity.
From what I have read (on .GOV.UK publications, not random websites), it looks like there is NO legal requirement to have rear seat belts on any seats that have been added into a vehicle post original manufacture and from any date either it would seem.  So any MOT fails due to no seat belts being fitted on after-market seats - say a Rock and Roll Bed - are incorrect.  An MOT inspector can only fail Seat Belts IF they are actually fitted and not secure, and NOT if they are not present at all unless the seats were originally fitted. So any camper conversion would be exempt and many 'official' Motorhomes would also be exempt as well from this requirement as well  (I would guess any which have a category of "N1" or "N2" would be in this category as that would mean they were originally registered as Commercials and converted post original registration so any rear seats added later).


Now USING seats for travelling if they are not installed with seat belts is another question entirely and is down to the individuals concerned and I guess their Insurance Companies?  Personally, I feel uncomfortable WITHOUT a seatbelt on as I have always worn one so it is just natural to have one on, and I would not* transport people without their seatbelt on front or REAR except in specific circumstances.


*having said that, yesterday the OH moved from front seat to rear to secure the kettle that I left on the hob earlier that day while we were driving as it was safer to do that then stop on the road, but that was very much a one-off!
I also recall when I, being the youngest, used to be confined to the rear luggage space of the Vauxhall Viva Estate on trips out.  How times have changed!


All the above is my own opinion, with 'proof' from some .GOV.UK publications available for anyone to see when doing a basic search on the internet.


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## Deleted member 32902 (Jun 25, 2018)

campervanannie said:


> Seamus I sometimes well a lot of the time drive through the night and if Bill is with me he will be in bed asleep at the back of the MH no seatbelts there, so don’t worry be happy.


Yes I used to do that too Annie, when we had the Cheyenne 840, the one with the bedroom at the rear, twin beds, I would insist mrs seamus drove in the UK, just to even things up as she would not drive abroad, I would take a walkie talkie to bed with me ( jaysas I've had some quare yokes to bed with me) so that I would have her attention at all times and could order coffee, or breakfast even whenever I wanted, you don't keep a dog and bark yerself sweetcheeks:lol-053:
seamus.


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