# First Trip To EU



## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

*The Reverse Polarity Thread*

Hi all,I'm heading to France,Portugal and Spain before Xmas and just wanted to ask a few questions on things I'm unsure about.
If I enable roaming on my phone and someone wants to call me from the UK,do they need to enter the country code prefix,or just ring my usual mobile number?
When crossing borders,are there specific crossing points or can I cross anywhere?
Are EHU connections the same across all three countries?
I'm intending to go from Dieppe and head down the coast of Portugal,avoiding motorways,anything I should be aware of,or anything I should make a point of seeing?
How dog friendly is Spain and Portugal,any do's or don'ts?

Thank you in advance for replies.
Any other info for a newbie appreciated,I am a bit nervous about the driving on the wrong side,new experience for me,so any driving tips will also be helpful.


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## delicagirl (Dec 12, 2015)

driving on the wrong side of the road is usually only a problem when you have stopped for fuel, drink, loo   and then when you drive off again your instinct kicks in and you want to drive on the left.....  take extra care at those times to start with....

enjoy


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 12, 2015)

Are you going with Viv



Asterix said:


> Hi all,I'm heading to France,Portugal and Spain before Xmas and just wanted to ask a few questions on things I'm unsure about.
> If I enable roaming on my phone and someone wants to call me from the UK,do they need to enter the country code prefix,or just ring my usual mobile number?
> When crossing borders,are there specific crossing points or can I cross anywhere?
> Are EHU connections the same across all three countries?
> ...


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## Steve121 (Dec 12, 2015)

Anyone wanting to call you just needs to dial your regular number; adding a prefix will prevent a call reaching you.
Border crossings are located along the roads. Usually you'll hardly notice when leaving one country and entering another.


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## trevskoda (Dec 12, 2015)

Hi some countrys have a differant polarity on ehu so you will require a cross over cable or fit a switcher unit in van,they are about £45 and work by showing a green light if all ok or red which then all required is to flick switch over.
these are fitted between mains in and fuse box,simple to do.


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## jeffmossy (Dec 12, 2015)

delicagirl said:


> driving on the wrong side of the road is usually only a problem when you have stopped for fuel, drink, loo   and then when you drive off again your instinct kicks in and you want to drive on the left.....  take extra care at those times to start with....
> 
> enjoy



Yep we have all done that,as for the phone anyone ringing you should just dial your normal number and it should be ok. Enjoy and take it as it comes


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## stonedaddy (Dec 12, 2015)

*Look Left*

I found at tee junctions instinct made me always look right for oncoming vehicles instead of left. I always remembered in the end but it could easily have gone wrong.
.... Tom ....


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## vindiboy (Dec 12, 2015)

My TOM TOM Sat nav reminds me to drive on the Right OR Left depending which Country I am in , I would guess other Sat Navs do the same ?  When joining Junctions etc be sure you do not cross CONTINUOUS white lines, it is an offence and Police can be hot on this , turning LEFT when driving on the Right which involves crossing a carriageway you will see that often there is a special turning on the right to enable a safe left turn , confusing at first but  a great safe way to go as you are at right angles to the road you are crossing.


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## John H (Dec 12, 2015)

You are likely to come across three different EHU connectors - in France they have a two-pin connector (which you will also find in Portugal); in Spain they have a different (German-based) two pin connector; and in all three you will find the blue three-pin connector we are familiar with in the UK. Adaptors can be ordered online - eg Amazon.co.uk: european hook up adaptor 

When travelling between the three countries you will probably not notice when you have moved from one to the other because there are no border controls (or at least there weren't before the recent Paris atrocities).

France and Spain are on the same time zone - 1 hour ahead of the UK; Portugal is on the same time zone.

We never use tolls - so you will be able to move around very easily without paying.

Driving on the "wrong" side of the road does not have to be a problem - providing you have a passenger to cover the blind spot at junctions.

In December, there may be a lot of snow around over the Pyrenees (I recommend taking the coast route from Biarritz to San Sebastian) and in parts of northern Spain. But the main roads are usually kept clear (usually more efficiently than in the UK).

What you should see really depends on what you are interested in - but you'll find something interesting round most corners.

Enjoy your trip.


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

Alf 1 said:


> Are you going with Viv



Yes,she's going to follow in her van,she wasn't confident to go on her own...blind leading the blind!


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

John H said:


> You are likely to come across three different EHU connectors - in France they have a two-pin connector (which you will also find in Portugal); in Spain they have a different (German-based) two pin connector; and in all three you will find the blue three-pin connector we are familiar with in the UK. Adaptors can be ordered online - eg Amazon.co.uk: european hook up adaptor
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll start training him now,one bark for go,two barks for wait lol.
I'm a history nut,so anything along those lines gets my interest...
Thanks for the info.


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## kris (Dec 12, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Hi some countrys have a differant polarity on ehu so you will require a cross over cable or fit a switcher unit in van,they are about £45 and work by showing a green light if all ok or red which then all required is to flick switch over.
> these are fitted between mains in and fuse box,simple to do.



Wont it trip out if wrong polarity as I  have a reverse polarity EHU connector (wired up ) I can then use ?


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## Canalsman (Dec 12, 2015)

Just remember:

B 
I
G

Bum In Gutter


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## delicagirl (Dec 12, 2015)

POI Admin said:


> Just remember:
> 
> B
> I
> ...



Are you there already Phil ?    Watch out Caerphilly !!!!


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## David & Ann (Dec 12, 2015)

To make it clearer. If you have an English phone and wish to call an English phone, then dial as suggested by our members. You only dial the prefix code if you are calling for example a German number, which is 0049 (49) drop the "0" and dial the rest.


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## listerdiesel (Dec 12, 2015)

Driving abroad is not really that difficult, follow the other locals and watch them.

Having an 044 prefix on your numbers only affects them if you don't take of the leading zero on the area code, so 07777 123456 would be 044 7777 123456.

Both my son's numbers are on my mobile with the country code and they work fine in the UK.

Motorway services take most cards, but local shops etc tend to prefer 'Maestro' system cards, something we found out in Holland and other countries.

Watch speed limits!

As we are usually towing the big trailer we are slower than most traffic, but it gets interesting on roundabouts where there are two lanes around them!

We drive in Europe and the USA regularly and apart from one incident, coming out of SFO airport, never had a problem.

Peter


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## lebesset (Dec 12, 2015)

you say you are going to the EU ...where are you starting from ?

re driving on the right , first few times you come to a roundabout seems wrong , otherwise no problem ; i always suggest to people to tie something to the steering wheel when stopping other than briefly, at least to begin with , just as an aide memoire

don't forget to book your LDlines ferry on the freephone and ask for your over 60's 20% discount


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

lebesset said:


> you say you are going to the EU ...where are you starting from ?
> 
> don't forget to book your LDlines ferry on the freephone and ask for your over 60's 20% discount



Starting at Dieppe...are you suggesting I wait ten years to get my over 60 discount


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## alcam (Dec 12, 2015)

*Dogs*

You'll have no problems with your dog in France , bars and , more often than not , restaurants are dog friendly . Spain and Portugal are , unfortunately , quite the opposite . Exception in Spain is the Rioja area where they are more relaxed about dogs . There may be other places but thats my experience


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## Pauljenny (Dec 12, 2015)

We have a roll of red vinyl tape and stick a marker on the steering wheel. Even after 17 years of too and fro, we manage one close call, either abroad or in UK.

Check on the forums, there's a special one with Portugal info..  Loads of aires on your way down..
Look online for websites giving details. Vicarious Books do a good guide... Google them.
Which way are you entering Portugal?
If from The Seville side into the Algarve, give us a shout if you need any help/ advice/ bottles emptied... We are near Tavira.

History.. Get a" Rough guide " book from a charity shop. Even if the book is out of date, the history isn't. Check with tourist info's...they love to help.


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

alcam said:


> You'll have no problems with your dog in France , bars and , more often than not , restaurants are dog friendly . Spain and Portugal are , unfortunately , quite the opposite . Exception in Spain is the Rioja area where they are more relaxed about dogs . There may be other places but thats my experience



Cheers for that,I find the UK to be exceptionally dog friendly,after coming from NZ which isn't,I'd be surprised if anywhere is better than here. It's more beaches that concern me,are there many restrictions,or is it a bit like here and dependent on the season?


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## runnach (Dec 12, 2015)

I think you should take me as your guide !!!,joking apart, driving on the right is a doddle partly I think because you concentrate and don't slip into auto mode like we can and do at home. first 15 mins back in the uk the scariest imho.

Spain I can't comment but France having a dog is no issue most places. this time of year beaches not really a problem dogs on the beach , pretty much look what the locals do. 

France tends to be a bit sleepy on Sundays, refreshing in a lot of ways.whilst you can get fuel etc , do it all saturday,including the shopping, 

Best advice is embrace the area like a local...take your time go with the flow. British attitudes leave in Dover etc, the days are far more interesting I assure you 

Channa


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## alcam (Dec 12, 2015)

Asterix said:


> Cheers for that,I find the UK to be exceptionally dog friendly,after coming from NZ which isn't,I'd be surprised if anywhere is better than here. It's more beaches that concern me,are there many restrictions,or is it a bit like here and dependent on the season?


Most beaches are ok for dogs though it can vary from place to place . You'll probably be surprised how dog friendly France is . The Spanish and Portuguese are fond of dogs they just think they should be outside


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

channa said:


> I think you should take me as your guide !!!,joking apart, driving on the right is a doddle partly I think because you concentrate and don't slip into auto mode like we can and do at home. first 15 mins back in the uk the scariest imho.
> 
> Spain I can't comment but France having a dog is no issue most places. this time of year beaches not really a problem dogs on the beach , pretty much look what the locals do.
> 
> ...



I always like to get in with the locals,tend to avoid touristy areas unless there's something I particularly want to see or do,love getting off the beaten track and finding the spots only known to the locals. Cheers for that.


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## El Veterano (Dec 12, 2015)

Be very careful about enabling roaming on your 'phone, particularly if you have a 'smart' 'phone with loads of apps on it as they will continually update and unless you have a roaming package with your provider here in UK any usage will be chargeable to your bill. When I'm abroad I always turn my 'Mobile Data' and 'Data Roaming' off so there can be no surprises bill wise when I get back to the UK. With those off you can still make and receive calls and texts but not access the Web. People that call you from the UK, or anywhere else for that matter, just dial the number that they usually use to call you. They will not incur any additional charges for calling you, but you pay for receiving or sending any texts or voice calls.  My provider here is Virgin, and they will not allow their users to access mobile data when roaming anyway - you get a text from them to say that if you want to access the internet then you have to purchase a plan they call a 'Travel Pass' from them, which then allows you access. It is accessed by text and is very straightforward and starts at £1.40 for 10Mb. No good for anything much other than emails but it has got me out of a few scrapes from time to time. For internet either find a Wi-Fi zone such a McDonalds or a shopping center, or get yourself set up with '3' 'Feel at Home' which is good for France and Spain but chargeable for Portugal. Feel At Home - Phones - Discover - Three
EHU connectors in France and Spain are 2 pin with an earth, I only have the one 'Continental' adapter and I have used it both in France and Spain, like this https://www.tauntonleisure.com/kamp...nooverride=1&gclid=CO3ZyqXI1skCFdQ_GwodhUEGEw
You don't need to spend tens of ££'s on a fancy reverse polarity device. Firstly get yourself one of these kenable UK Mains Power Plug 13A Socket Tester Polarity/Earth Checker: Amazon.co.uk: Lighting and plugging this into any socket in your MH will tell you if you are connected to a reverse polarity supply. If your charging system on your MH is fairly new it will switch over itself. But if not all you need to make or purchase ready made is reverse polarity cable (which is just a piece of cable with a female connector at one end and a male connector at the other, with the wire connections reversed) like this Europe Continental Caravan Camping Mains-Hook-Up Polarity Reverse Adapter Cable | eBay I made my own but have never needed to use it. More on the subject here http://www.venture-caravans.com/pdf/guides/Reversed-Polarity-Guide.pdf 
As for driving and motorways, we never use the toll roads these days in France, finding that the roads are usually so good that it hardly makes any difference in time using toll free roads. So unless you are in a busting rush to get anywhere just use the toll free motorways (of which there are loads).
First time driving on RH side is fairly straight forward. If you have a habitation window behind your passenger seat make sure that the blind is left open on it or else you will have a blind spot when you come to some junctions and roundabouts. I always used to think 'drive in the ditch' to myself to keep myself well to the right. If there is no white line on the road and no other traffic it can sometimes be fairly easy to find yourself setting off on the left, so be aware in these conditions. Give way to the right is the rule of thumb if there are no signs or road markings. Don't worry too much about speed cameras if you get a 'flash', but do worry about mobile cameras, police checks going through towns and on motorway slip roads and roundabouts. I use my GPS to give me my correct speed in kilometers and the cruise control to keep within speed limits. Carry a spare bulb kit, a warning triangle and high viz vest (which must be in reach of the driver), and never cross a solid white line on the road. Don't worry about carrying a breathalyser kit in France, and if you do do NOT buy them from the channel ports or the ferry companies. Also make sure that if you get to a 'Stop' sign rather than a 'Give Way', make sure that the wheels stop turning, even if the road is completely clear. The fuzz love hiding behind bushes and walls and jumping out with notebook in hand as you roll over the 'Stop' line!
The main problem I think about driving on the right is not so much driving on the right, but driving on the left when you get home! I have quite often had to stop myself from driving on the right in the UK after a spell abroad, usually about 2 weeks or so after returning home. Just catches you off guard sometimes.
Have a great trip - you will.


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## lebesset (Dec 12, 2015)

Asterix said:


> Starting at Dieppe...are you suggesting I wait ten years to get my over 60 discount



sorry about that ....almost everyone who can go for some months is at least 60 !

have I missed something ? isn't the UK still in the EU ?


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

Pauljenny said:


> We have a roll of red vinyl tape and stick a marker on the steering wheel. Even after 17 years of too and fro, we manage one close call, either abroad or in UK.
> 
> Check on the forums, there's a special one with Portugal info..  Loads of aires on your way down..
> Look online for websites giving details. Vicarious Books do a good guide... Google them.
> ...



I'll be heading into Portugal thru Irun,then following the coast down,I've got the Aires book from Vicarious,very good it is too.
Thanks for the advice.


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

El Veterano said:


> Be very careful about enabling roaming on your 'phone, particularly if you have a 'smart' 'phone with loads of apps on it as they will continually update and unless you have a roaming package with your provider here in UK any usage will be chargeable to your bill. When I'm abroad I always turn my 'Mobile Data' and 'Data Roaming' off so there can be no surprises bill wise when I get back to the UK. With those off you can still make and receive calls and texts but not access the Web. People that call you from the UK, or anywhere else for that matter, just dial the number that they usually use to call you. They will not incur any additional charges for calling you, but you pay for receiving or sending any texts or voice calls.  My provider here is Virgin, and they will not allow their users to access mobile data when roaming anyway - you get a text from them to say that if you want to access the internet then you have to purchase a plan they call a 'Travel Pass' from them, which then allows you access. It is accessed by text and is very straightforward and starts at £1.40 for 10Mb. No good for anything much other than emails but it has got me out of a few scrapes from time to time. For internet either find a Wi-Fi zone such a McDonalds or a shopping center, or get yourself set up with '3' 'Feel at Home' which is good for France and Spain but chargeable for Portugal. Feel At Home - Phones - Discover - Three
> EHU connectors in France and Spain are 2 pin with an earth, I only have the one 'Continental' adapter and I have used it both in France and Spain, like this https://www.tauntonleisure.com/kamp...nooverride=1&gclid=CO3ZyqXI1skCFdQ_GwodhUEGEw
> You don't need to spend tens of ££'s on a fancy reverse polarity device. Firstly get yourself one of these kenable UK Mains Power Plug 13A Socket Tester Polarity/Earth Checker: Amazon.co.uk: Lighting and plugging this into any socket in your MH will tell you if you are connected to a reverse polarity supply. If your charging system on your MH is fairly new it will switch over itself. But if not all you need to make or purchase ready made is reverse polarity cable (which is just a piece of cable with a female connector at one end and a male connector at the other, with the wire connections reversed) like this Europe Continental Caravan Camping Mains-Hook-Up Polarity Reverse Adapter Cable | eBay I made my own but have never needed to use it. More on the subject here http://www.venture-caravans.com/pdf/guides/Reversed-Polarity-Guide.pdf
> As for driving and motorways, we never use the toll roads these days in France, finding that the roads are usually so good that it hardly makes any difference in time using toll free roads. So unless you are in a busting rush to get anywhere just use the toll free motorways (of which there are loads).
> ...




I won't be using the phone much at all,too paranoid about the charges but just needed to know the correct number for emergencies etc. The coppers sound like they were trained in NZ!! very rarely do I exceed speed limits in my old wagon so that won't be an issue. Thanks for the info.


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## El Veterano (Dec 12, 2015)

The number for any of the emergency services anywhere in EU is 112.


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## John H (Dec 12, 2015)

Asterix said:


> I won't be using the phone much at all,too paranoid about the charges but just needed to know the correct number for emergencies etc.



Try the "Three" Feel at Home service. It won't work in Portugal but it will give you the same price in Spain and France as it does in the UK


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## TJBi (Dec 12, 2015)

Asterix said:


> I won't be using the phone much at all,too paranoid about the charges but just needed to know the correct number for emergencies etc. The coppers sound like they were trained in NZ!! very rarely do I exceed speed limits in my old wagon so that won't be an issue. Thanks for the info.



You may not have time before this trip, but consider porting your number to Toggle Mobile for cheap PAYG calls in the UK and many countries abroad (and no roaming charges in many of them).


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## Seannachie (Dec 12, 2015)

*La priorité à droite*

In France be particularly careful regarding the prioite a droite - see HERE for an explanation. The rule is not consistently applied but if you fall foul of it, you wil be in the wrong - no ifs or buts about it. Sometimes, in the same town/village/conurbation you will be on what you believe is the 'main road' but roads entering will have priorite over you, though others from the right may not (if they have a Give Way sign or Stop sign on them). The rule catches out French drivers too. And some French motorists drive as if they have the priorite a droite, even when they don't.

Just be aware of this rule and you should be okay - in over 30 years of driving thousands of miles in France I have never had a problem with or or an accident.


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## trevskoda (Dec 12, 2015)

kris said:


> Wont it trip out if wrong polarity as I  have a reverse polarity EHU connector (wired up ) I can then use ?



If you use the bit of kit i showed up thread all you have to do is switch of fuse box plug in to ehu and see if you have green light if not switch over and then switch on fuse box,how much more simple do you require without fafing about.


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## Pauljenny (Dec 12, 2015)

Irun and following the coast... In Deep Winter ? ?

 it will be cold and dark. Not ideal for sightseeing... More like hard work . Could be an adventure , if that's what you fancy ?

Might be better to get south as fast as you can , and save the north for your return journey, especially in an elderly van .

 But what the Hell ! Just you and the dog to please , is it ?


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

Pauljenny said:


> Irun and following the coast... In Deep Winter ? ?
> 
> it will be cold and dark. Not ideal for sightseeing... More like hard work . Could be an adventure , if that's what you fancy ?
> 
> ...



Yep,just me and mutley,I just like the look of it on Google  earth, not too many people about I imagine,so even better,as for the cold, an extra layer will sort that.


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

Another question...

I've noticed that EHU on Aires and campsites are often 8 or 10 amp,I've never actually been on EHU before but intend to while I'm over there at times, just wondered how that affects what appliances I can use,such as a 1500 watt cooker, any problems there?


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## shortcircuit (Dec 12, 2015)

kris said:


> Wont it trip out if wrong polarity as I  have a reverse polarity EHU connector (wired up ) I can then use ?



In a healthy circuit reverse polarity presents no dangers unless you wish to dabble with your electrics whilst switched on.  What is essential is that you have an earth and would suggest you purchase  Polarity Tester: Electrical & Test Equipment | eBay rather than spend money on a complicated switch.


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## Seannachie (Dec 12, 2015)

Asterix said:


> Another question...
> 
> I've noticed that EHU on Aires and campsites are often 8 or 10 amp,I've never actually been on EHU before but intend to while I'm over there at times, just wondered how that affects what appliances I can use,such as a 1500 watt cooker, any problems there?


You can work it out for yourself - Amps is watts divided by volts, so a 1500W appliance on a 230V supply consumes just over 6.5A. Then you have to allow for all the other appliances drawing power on top of that.


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## Asterix (Dec 12, 2015)

Seannachie said:


> You can work it out for yourself - Amps is watts divided by volts, so a 1500W appliance on a 230V supply consumes just over 6.5A. Then you have to allow for all the other appliances drawing power on top of that.



Excellent reply,these watts,amps always have me scratching my head!! Thanks!


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## shortcircuit (Dec 12, 2015)

swiftcamper said:


> For the amount of times you might come across reverse polarity either do nothing or spend a fiver and wire up an adapter.



And how does that tell you you have an earth?  My Sergent fuse unit only indicates reversed polarity


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## Tezza33 (Dec 12, 2015)

I have been using EHU in France/Spain/Portugal/Germany and a few other places for over 40yrs and reverse polarity has never been a problem, that doesn't mean I have not come across it but it has not been a problem


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## ScamperVan (Dec 13, 2015)

Asterix said:


> How dog friendly is Spain and Portugal,any do's or don'ts?
> 
> ,I am a bit nervous about the driving on the wrong side,l.



Haven't been to portugal but had a brief visit to the Murcia region of Spain and was surprised and disappointed at their dog-unfriendliness. We had been used to france and germany where dogs are served their drinks before humans. 

(Dog haters - no comments on the above are required, please don't hijack this thread and start ranting!) 

Driving on the "wrong side" isn't as daunting as you believe - take it slow and carefully to start - pretend you're a learner driver if that helps.


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## maxi77 (Dec 13, 2015)

shortcircuit said:


> In a healthy circuit reverse polarity presents no dangers unless you wish to dabble with your electrics whilst switched on.  What is essential is that you have an earth and would suggest you purchase  Polarity Tester: Electrical & Test Equipment | eBay rather than spend money on a complicated switch.



Not quite if you have reversed polarity a circuit can and most probably will be live when the circuit breaker and single pole switches are off. A potentially life threatening condition. Many European built vans have double pole breakers to minimise the risk. For us the solution is as you suggest is a socket tester and a means of reversing site polarity. Easy if you are using a continental hook up but if you are using a normal three pin power plug you need a reverse polarity lead.


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## maxi77 (Dec 13, 2015)

ScamperVan said:


> Haven't been to portugal but had a brief visit to the Murcia region of Spain and was surprised and disappointed at their dog-unfriendliness. We had been used to france and germany where dogs are served their drinks before humans.
> 
> (Dog haters - no comments on the above are required, please don't hijack this thread and start ranting!)
> 
> Driving on the "wrong side" isn't as daunting as you believe - take it slow and carefully to start - pretend you're a learner driver if that helps.



Portugal is a mixed bag, many people are animal lovers but it is illegal to have a dog in food shops or bars and restaurants, though in most sitting at outside tables is normal. Dogs are not normally allowed in either buses or taxis which can make life difficult. One interesting point in Portugal is that by law dogs must be registered and have all the shots including rabies. For casual visitors this presents no problems but if you spend lond periods registing is advised, costs under 10 euros to set up and under 5 to renew so worth doing. It also gets your dogs chip number into the local system easing return if pet pooch strays. We have seen this work, and they will fine owners who wont takethe dog back.

Vets in Portugal are in general good and helpfull and less expensive in the UK. Normally our dogs get their annual jabs in Portugal for much less than the UK.


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## Tony Lee (Dec 13, 2015)

You will VERY quickly get the hang of driving on the wrong side of the road when you come to an intersection, carefully look to the right and since it is clear, edge out in preparation for looking to the left to make sure the other side is clear. Just as you turn your head to the left there will be a screech of brakes and a huge cloud of locked-tyre smoke and a horn blaring desperately and a French car-bonnet will be bobbing up and down 2" from your door. 
Cross channel relations have just dived another couple of notches.

And then there are the roundabouts ....


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## Tony Lee (Dec 13, 2015)

If you intend going to Morocco or south America you will need to get over your paranoia about reverse polarity and funny earths.







No problem about the chopped off earths because the power outlet has only two wires hooked up anyway







In Morocco, no earth on any of these outlets






On another campground there was one circuit supplying 20 outlets and again, no earth.


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## John H (Dec 13, 2015)

tezza33 said:


> I have been using EHU in France/Spain/Portugal/Germany and a few other places for over 40yrs and reverse polarity has never been a problem, that doesn't mean I have not come across it but it has not been a problem



I know very little about electricity but when we got our first motorhome, 20 years ago, I was scratching my head at which way round to put the plug into the socket on a campsite in Germany. An electrician told me not to worry and that all modern vans could cope with reverse polarity. In 20 years of following that advice we have had no problems at all - nothing live when it shouldn't be, no shocks, no fires - and everything works perfectly.


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## shortcircuit (Dec 13, 2015)

maxi77 said:


> Not quite if you have reversed polarity a circuit can and most probably will be live when the circuit breaker and single pole switches are off. A potentially life threatening condition. Many European built vans have double pole breakers to minimise the risk. For us the solution is as you suggest is a socket tester and a means of reversing site polarity. Easy if you are using a continental hook up but if you are using a normal three pin power plug you need a reverse polarity lead.



"Healthy circuit. Unless you wish to dabble with your electrics switched on"

If you have a healthy circuit and do not dabble then where is "A potentially life threatening condition"
Ensure you have a good earth and then forget reverse polarity. Introducing a polarity lead is just another complication.


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## trevskoda (Dec 13, 2015)

John H said:


> I know very little about electricity but when we got our first motorhome, 20 years ago, I was scratching my head at which way round to put the plug into the socket on a campsite in Germany. An electrician told me not to worry and that all modern vans could cope with reverse polarity. In 20 years of following that advice we have had no problems at all - nothing live when it shouldn't be, no shocks, no fires - and everything works perfectly.



Someone gave you bad advice your earth will be the live get a polarity switch.:scared:


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## John H (Dec 13, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Someone gave you bad advice your earth will be the live get a polarity switch.:scared:



How can the earth be live? I know my knowledge of electricity is sketchy but it seems to me that whichever way you put the plug in the earth is always the same.


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## trevskoda (Dec 13, 2015)

Asterix said:


> Another question...
> 
> I've noticed that EHU on Aires and campsites are often 8 or 10 amp,I've never actually been on EHU before but intend to while I'm over there at times, just wondered how that affects what appliances I can use,such as a 1500 watt cooker, any problems there?



six amps min 8 will cover you,simple divide the volts 230v  into 1500 for load in amps


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## John H (Dec 13, 2015)

I have to admit that is the way I see it - thanks for confirming it.


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## yeoblade (Dec 13, 2015)

Firstly - I would NEVER  'drive on the wrong side of the road' it is dangerous.

Secondly - I your concerned about reverse polarity, try backing onto the the pitch. 

Following the advice for 40 years I have never had a problem overseas.

Hopefully my next post will be of more help :rolleyes2:


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 13, 2015)

*Reverse Polarity*


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## alcam (Dec 13, 2015)

maxi77 said:


> Vets in Portugal are in general good and helpfull and less expensive in the UK. Normally our dogs get their annual jabs in Portugal for much less than the UK.



Same applies to France and Spain . 3 years ago in Spain my dog had xrays , kept in overnight , drugs for 2 weeks and 4 visits with vet . £160 
Coming home this year vet in Vermoutiers charged 23.60 euros for worming and general check up .
If your dog becomes ill get them over the channel !


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## sparrks (Dec 13, 2015)

_*positive and Negative are the 'poles'*_   Correct

_*So each pin will be both + and - alternately*_._* Wrong!*_ The phase conductor will remain the pos but will alternate between neg 230 volts and pos 230 volts The Neutral will remain the same.

To clarify- The voltage alternates between pos volts and neg volts on the _*phase *_conductor  and _*not*_ _*between the phase and neutral *_conductors.


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## Polar Bear (Dec 13, 2015)

sparrks said:


> _*positive and Negative are the 'poles'*_   Correct
> 
> _*So each pin will be both + and - alternately*_._* Wrong!*_ The phase conductor will remain the pos but will alternate between neg 230 volts and pos 230 volts The Neutral will remain the same.
> 
> To clarify- The voltage alternates between pos volts and neg volts on the _*phase *_conductor  and _*not*_ _*between the phase and neutral *_conductors.



Hi Sparrks.

Am I right in the observation that some fluro lamps and LEDs will only work if they are connected up the correct way around?

If so; and the fluro/leds don't work then there is a chance that the EHU is connected incorrectly?


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 13, 2015)

Will. This is true of some types of LED's only some will work either way no problem with Fluorescent either.

Alf



Polar Bear said:


> Hi Sparrks.
> 
> Am I right in the observation that some fluro lamps and LEDs will only work if they are connected up the correct way around?
> 
> If so; and the fluro/leds don't work then there is a chance that the EHU is connected incorrectly?


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## barryd (Dec 13, 2015)

TJBi said:


> You may not have time before this trip, but consider porting your number to Toggle Mobile for cheap PAYG calls in the UK and many countries abroad (and no roaming charges in many of them).



I use the Toggle sim abroad.  I didnt port my main number to Toggle though.  What I do at Dover before every trip is divert my existing Vodafone main number to my toggle one.  That way if anyone calls me on my known main number it comes through on my toggle phone and costs me nothing whilst in any Toggle country.  Calling out (of a Toggle country) costs 3p a minute.  Its saved me a load of money from what I used to spend with Vodafone.


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## shortcircuit (Dec 13, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> Hi Sparrks.
> 
> Am I right in the observation that some fluro lamps and LEDs will only work if they are connected up the correct way around?
> 
> If so; and the fluro/leds don't work then there is a chance that the EHU is connected incorrectly?



As Alf has said some Fluor/LEDs will work with reversed 12 volt dc .connection, however as these are normally fed from the leisure battery,through the control panel, reversed polarity of the EHU will have absolutely no effect


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## trevskoda (Dec 13, 2015)

Thats fine until some day a kettle or other aparatus goes faulty and  becomes live,you will have no trip and when you step out of van holding that item  and touch ground or van body BANG your DEAD simple.


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## trevskoda (Dec 13, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> Hi Sparrks.
> 
> Am I right in the observation that some fluro lamps and LEDs will only work if they are connected up the correct way around?
> 
> If so; and the fluro/leds don't work then there is a chance that the EHU is connected incorrectly?



Leds which say cree free work any way round.


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## runnach (Dec 13, 2015)

Crikey this RP gets folk hot under the collar .A couple of points.

Firstly in any given season thousands of people will camp return home blissfully unaware that their electric was RP. Unless a issue with an appliance as others state and a need to fiddle.RP is not an issue and whilst there maybe a risk, it seems minimal.

Whilst using kewchecks etc for those obsessed with RP may id RP...slow down !!! before you waste half hour knocking up reverse fly leads etc ...re visit the site station box and if possible swop terminals hey presto normal polarity ..I can think of two sites one in Brittany and one in the cote d'azur both big sites where this is the case. and can prove it within 2 minutes.

Channa


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## sparrks (Dec 13, 2015)

*The misconception that the polarity reverses between phase and neutral is often repeated and was just making myself clear. 
*
*Wrong again, certainly all the time that single pole devices are used correct polarity must be observed.
*
The Uk system was designed around a 3 wire supply - L N E, with the increasing use of Class II Equipment, commonly called double insulated, the CPC (circuit protective conductor/earth wire) is slowly being made redundant. Circuits supplying computers required a larger or supplementary earth to them due to higher earth leakage current but could be on a 30mA rcd - I never really understood that either.  Not sure if it is still the case.

Class II equipment aren't foolproof as they can still become live if containing conductive parts as I've found from experience.

Section 721 * covers 'Electrical Installations In Caravans And Motor Caravans

*(Amendment No 1:2011) might be different in the latest amendment


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## John H (Dec 13, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Thats fine until some day a kettle or other aparatus goes faulty and  becomes live,you will have no trip and when you step out of van holding that item  and touch ground or van body BANG your DEAD simple.



You step out of the van holding a faulty item that is still plugged in?????? Sorry but I will continue doing what I have been doing for the past 20 years.


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## maxi77 (Dec 13, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> Hi Sparrks.
> 
> Am I right in the observation that some fluro lamps and LEDs will only work if they are connected up the correct way around?
> 
> If so; and the fluro/leds don't work then there is a chance that the EHU is connected incorrectly?



Some LED lamps are polarity sensitive though most are not. However Live/Neutral reversed hook ups will not change the polarity of your 12 volt system.


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## trevskoda (Dec 13, 2015)

John H said:


> You step out of the van holding a faulty item that is still plugged in?????? Sorry but I will continue doing what I have been doing for the past 20 years.



You dont even need to step out,simply touching the metal of van while holding a bit of kit which has went faulty will do the deed, as the tyres are carbon filled they will earth the body.
I understand that under normal use nout will happen but it only requires it to happen once to kill.


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## John H (Dec 13, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> You dont even need to step out,simply touching the metal of van while holding a bit of kit which has went faulty will do the deed, as the tyres are carbon filled they will earth the body.
> I understand that under normal use nout will happen but it only requires it to happen once to kill.



But I have been told - by a professional electrician - that in modern vans you do not have to worry about reverse polarity. You said earlier that the earth would be live. I asked how that could be. You have not answered that question.


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## Tezza33 (Dec 13, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> as the tyres are carbon filled they will earth the body.
> .


Can you explain why years ago (early 90's) at the Stratford upon Avon Motorhome Show we were parked with the Motor Caravanners Club, there was a thunderstorm with lightning strikes, several people were injured because of metal tipped umbrellas, one was feeding his dog which was with a metal bowl and a metal spoon, the first van in the row we were on was struck on the roof, witnesses including me all said it was like a fireball bouncing across the top of each van including ours until it got to a van that had metal stabilisers going to the ground and it then went to earth through the stabilisers, if tyres were conductive it would have gone to ground when it hit the first van


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## sparrks (Dec 13, 2015)

tezza33 said:


> Can you explain why years ago (early 90's) at the Stratford upon Avon Motorhome Show we were parked with the Motor Caravanners Club, there was a thunderstorm with lightning strikes, several people were injured because of metal tipped umbrellas, one was feeding his dog which was with a metal bowl and a metal spoon, the first van in the row we were on was struck on the roof, witnesses including me all said it was like a fireball bouncing across the top of each van including ours until it got to a van that had metal stabilisers going to the ground and it then went to earth through the stabilisers, if tyres were conductive it would have gone to ground when it hit the first van



The question of car tyres being conductive came up some time ago, so I spent some 15-20 mins with a megger and thoroughly tested 2 different makes of tyre and found that neither gave readings so assumed tyres are not conductive. I believe the question with carbon and conductivity comes from the fact? that it's carbon that gives the tyre it's colour. It must be too small a quantity to have an effect.


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## ScamperVan (Dec 13, 2015)

More hijack from the original poste'rs queries but I'm curious and I guess you peeps will know the answer - as Forces folks retuning from Germany with appliances bought over there we chopped off our two-pin plugs and rewired them onto UK three pin ones, ignoring the earth terminal. 
In the light of all the above presumably this was quite dangerous but no-one I know of has ever had any issues.

This is a question, I'm not trying to say it was the correct thing to do.


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## maxi77 (Dec 13, 2015)

ScamperVan said:


> More hijack from the original poste'rs queries but I'm curious and I guess you peeps will know the answer - as Forces folks retuning from Germany with appliances bought over there we chopped off our two-pin plugs and rewired them onto UK three pin ones, ignoring the earth terminal.
> In the light of all the above presumably this was quite dangerous but no-one I know of has ever had any issues.
> 
> This is a question, I'm not trying to say it was the correct thing to do.



Presumably you didn't connect the earth because there was not an earth wire which would indicate the appliances were so called double insulated and thus not requiring an earth. Many appliances sold in the UK are the same and although we have an earth pin on the plugs many are not used


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## ScamperVan (Dec 13, 2015)

maxi77 said:


> Presumably you didn't connect the earth because there was not an earth wire which would indicate the appliances were so called double insulated and thus not requiring an earth. Many appliances sold in the UK are the same and although we have an earth pin on the plugs many are not used



No idea - it was 20 years ago and they only had 2 wires - whether or not they were double insulated??

Edit: another standard practice was/is  to use a continental extension lead, plug all your 2 pin appliances into the body (gang bit) having replaced the two pin plug at the other end with a UK one.


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## listerdiesel (Dec 14, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Hi some countrys have a differant polarity on ehu so you will require a cross over cable or fit a switcher unit in van,they are about £45 and work by showing a green light if all ok or red which then all required is to flick switch over.
> these are fitted between mains in and fuse box,simple to do.



We have a 16A Schuko 2-pin reversible plug and a 16A BS4343 plug on two extensions. We use the Schuko on site in Holland while the 16A BS4343 is used elsewhere.

Which way round the 'polarity' is, is irrelevant, AC is not polarised as such, only that in the UK the star point of the three-phase supply is generally used as Neutral and the outer leg is Line, so we treat Line as the live connection. We also earth the Neutral at the incoming supply as PME or Protective Multiple Earth.

Continental supplies are similar but the PME connection is often not used, especially on site power.

If we earthed the Neutral inside the van, and the earth was taken to the van structure then it would matter which way round things are, but as we don't earth the incoming Neutral, or at least should not, then it matters not if the supplying socket is the 'right' way round or not. 

We have never had a problem in multiple trips to Europe using both types of connector.

We have never had any kind of box to reverse the 'polarity' of the incoming supply.

We DO have a plug checker that is a comprehensive tester made by Martindale** that we use to check our supply sockets each year.

Peter

** EZ-150 Cat II 300V


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## trevskoda (Dec 14, 2015)

listerdiesel said:


> We have a 16A Schuko 2-pin reversible plug and a 16A BS4343 plug on two extensions. We use the Schuko on site in Holland while the 16A BS4343 is used elsewhere.
> 
> Which way round the 'polarity' is, is irrelevant, AC is not polarised as such, only that in the UK the star point of the three-phase supply is generally used as Neutral and the outer leg is Line, so we treat Line as the live connection. We also earth the Neutral at the incoming supply as PME or Protective Multiple Earth.
> 
> ...


Peter it does mater which side positive side is on as the trip will not be right and for £45 i think a flickover box is well worth it ,and any way i could not be arsed with differant leads and fafing about,switch simple.
However i did see your glass panels on a other thread and was well impressed what a job and you have me thinking now.


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## John H (Dec 14, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Peter it does mater which side positive side is on as the trip will not be right and for £45 i think a flickover box is well worth it ,and any way i could not be arsed with differant leads and fafing about,switch simple.
> However i did see your glass panels on a other thread and was well impressed what a job and you have me thinking now.



I'm sorry but you have made very definite statements that several others have questioned and you have not answered those questions. For the third time, I will ask you - how can putting in the two-pin plug the wrong way round mean that the earth will be live?


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## shortcircuit (Dec 14, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Peter it does mater which side positive side is on as the trip will not be right and for £45 i think a flickover box is well worth it ,and any way i could not be arsed with differant leads and fafing about,switch simple.
> However i did see your glass panels on a other thread and was well impressed what a job and you have me thinking now.



An RCD compares the current coming into it and then out and if not the same it will trip. Reverse polarity does not affect its operation so your £45 is money wasted.
What an RCD does need is an earth ,so a simple polarity type checker is essential, no earth at EHU, find one that does.


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## trevskoda (Dec 14, 2015)

John H said:


> I'm sorry but you have made very definite statements that several others have questioned and you have not answered those questions. For the third time, I will ask you - how can putting in the two-pin plug the wrong way round mean that the earth will be live?



John i never said the earth would be live,the polarity is reversed so the live which should work the trip is now neg making it useles as a rcd,,also its if a unit like a kettle or other for some reason shorts to eth with the hot side pos and you are holding it and touch eth /van body etc the trip will not then save you,hope this clears thing up as there may be no second chance with electricty.


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## John H (Dec 14, 2015)

Im sorry, trevskoda, but you DID say that 





trevskoda said:


> Someone gave you bad advice your earth will be the live get a polarity switch.:scared:



and because of that and the questioning of several others of your advice, I won't be taking it.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 14, 2015)

Trev  what sort of RCD's do you use in Ireland they must be different  from the ones over here unless you are using the old voltage operated that were outlawed 40 years ago.

Alf



trevskoda said:


> John i never said the earth would be live,the polarity is reversed so the live which should work the trip is now neg making it useles as a rcd,,also its if a unit like a kettle or other for some reason shorts to eth with the hot side pos and you are holding it and touch eth /van body etc the trip will not then save you,hope this clears thing up as there may be no second chance with electricty.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 14, 2015)

*Rcd*

Whilst on this subject of RCD's   how many test there RCD it should be done every 3 months or sooner by using the small test button on the RCD.
If you look on the Sticker that should be fitted near to the Consumer unit or Mains intake This should ask you to test it Quarterly this is a Statuary Requirement not some old cobblers,  this is not the definitive test but good enough, test it every 3 months or sooner,

The use of a good quality 13A Plug Tester is more than important apart from reversed polatity its Main Function is to inform you that there is a Earth present on the Hook Up cable.This should be done each time you use your Hook Up cable.


If you have a mate an electrician have him test it every now and again with his test meter.

IN fact here is a good Idea there are several professional and retired electricians on the forum any going to a Meet take your RCD tester along 
and have a ball.

A metal box with an electrical supply can be a dangerous thing so a test in time can save lives.

Alf


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## listerdiesel (Dec 14, 2015)

As said above, the RCD doesn't 'care' which is Line or Neutral, it is looking at a current imbalance in the two conductors, nothing else.

The critical thing is a good earth to the supply point and plugs and cables in good condition.

When we go to Nuenen for the engine show they provide site electricity on the field, and the guy who arranges it is a stickler for correct electrical safety, as most of us are.

Every year we get interruptions from bad plugs or cables, plus a few outright dangerous lash-ups.

The French site at Villey Le Sec has some very good quality outlet boxes, but it is always 'interesting' to see what people use for EHU cables.

We are no angels, but we do check our cables and plugs each season, we carry spare plugs and sockets in the spares box, but haven't needed them yet.

Peter


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## defitzi (Dec 14, 2015)

stonedaddy said:


> I found at tee junctions instinct made me always look right for oncoming vehicles instead of left. I always remembered in the end but it could easily have gone wrong.
> .... Tom ....



Remember...the sodding Euros drive on the RIGHT....Of course that IS the wrongsideoftheroadbut....well they ARE sodding Euros...imean,like...well what CAN you expect?    Seriously though never set off or enter any other road at any junction without chanting the silly euro buggers drive on the wrong side!!!!!
Also in small town villages be careful to actually stop at a major road full stop white line....advisable alsol full stop at all junctions and in small towns villages etc if there is no stopline you may be expected to give way from the right. Best is always give way.....


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## Asterix (Dec 29, 2015)

Well I seem to have got the hang of the this driving on the wrong side business,took me the best part of a week to drive thru France,just ambling along on the "D" roads,which are surprisingly good,with plenty of places to stop. Currently in a village somewhere inland of Santander,little traffic and decent roads considering the terrain in the Pyrenees, got stopped by the cops this morning and dog was ordered off the front seat...w*****s,he's back on it now  Weather is mild enough for a t shirt, although the locals mostly have jackets on. Spent last night in a picnic area watching a controlled burn off on the opposite side of the valley,great sight at night.


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## Siimplyloco (Dec 29, 2015)

Asterix said:


> SNIP
> got stopped by the cops this morning and dog was ordered off the front seat...w*****s,he's back on it now  SNIP.



I know this sounds a little 'Holier than thou', but we think that it's quite a sensible law, as it's there to prevent your nice little doggie breaking your neck when you hit something, or getting in the way in an emergency. Our two seem to have adapted to the folding pen quite well as we don't get a peep out of them from start to finish. Shame about your description of the local coppers just doing their job...
John


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## Asterix (Dec 29, 2015)

siimplyloco said:


> I know this sounds a little 'Holier than thou', but we think that it's quite a sensible law, as it's there to prevent your nice little doggie breaking your neck when you hit something, or getting in the way in an emergency. Our two seem to have adapted to the folding pen quite well as we don't get a peep out of them from start to finish. Shame about your description of the local coppers just doing their job...
> John



He's belted in so I don't see what the problem is,apart from obstructing my LH mirror,but he's used to me shoving his head down when I need to look. My description of the local plods is fully in keeping with my previous experiences


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## Roger Haworth (Dec 29, 2015)

El Veterano said:


> The number for any of the emergency services anywhere in EU is 112.



I don't want to be a smart arse but 112 is not the emergency number everywhere in the EU. In the UK it is 999.


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## iampatman (Dec 29, 2015)

Asterix said:


> *He's belted in so I don't see what the problem is,apart from obstructing my LH mirror,but he's used to me shoving his head down when I need to look*. My description of the local plods is fully in keeping with my previous experiences



That's ok then. You and your pooch aren't really a danger to anyone. No distraction at all having to tap pooch on head to see mirror, can't think why the local plod objected at all. 

Pat


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## Asterix (Dec 29, 2015)

Not a dog lover then? lol Doesn't take a lot of intellect to sit on his arse and scratch himself occasionally, although he's intelligent enough to realise the oncoming traffic is suddenly on his side,he spent the first four days jumping into the footwall whenever a truck was coming,he seems to be over that now.


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## Asterix (Dec 29, 2015)

I'm really not making the connection here,how does a dog restrained in a front seat make me an irresponsible driver? I think its a bit presumptuous to think he will cause me to have an accident,the mh is the only home he's ever known since I got him at eight weeks,he knows the routines,and he knows the limits of his space...and mine.


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## n brown (Dec 29, 2015)

the point ,i think, is that if you have to pull out to your left suddenly  to pass a cyclist/ pedestrian etc ,anything slow moving that causes you to make a quick decision, and you glance in your mirror to check nothing is trying to pass you, then a big hairy head could be a bit of a nuisance ! 
when i carry dogs, they're happy enough in the back looking forwards


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## Asterix (Dec 30, 2015)

n brown said:


> the point ,i think, is that if you have to pull out to your left suddenly  to pass a cyclist/ pedestrian etc ,anything slow moving that causes you to make a quick decision, and you glance in your mirror to check nothing is trying to pass you, then a big hairy head could be a bit of a nuisance !
> when i carry dogs, they're happy enough in the back looking forwards



The only slow moving thing on the road is me! After a two hr drive yesterday my satnav showed an average speed of15 mph,up till now I've made a conscious decision to stay off motorways but I think I'll have to change that or I'll be stuck in these mountains till old age sets in. I do take your point about a fat head in the way but most of the time he's in the foot well or got his head out the window so its not an issue usually.


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## Roger Haworth (Dec 30, 2015)

[No message]


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 30, 2015)

[No message]


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## Roger Haworth (Dec 30, 2015)

Alf 1 said:


> Dont take Davids word here look at this link perhaps tis will convince you
> 
> Alf
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...DyApeaoyxSPMo3ix5Z_BIg&bvm=bv.110151844,d.ZWU



Thanks - I'm convinced!


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## RoadTrek Boy (Dec 31, 2015)

Astrix, please tell me, if your dog is fully restrained on the front seat, how does he manage to jump down into the footwell? :rolleyes2:


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## Asterix (Jan 9, 2016)

ColinD said:


> Astrix, please tell me, if your dog is fully restrained on the front seat, how does he manage to jump down into the footwell? :rolleyes2:



The seat belt extends far enough for him to climb down.


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