# Solar Panel purchase



## Terrybill (Dec 8, 2018)

Hi. I was advised to buy German solar panels if possible rather than Chinese ones.  I've found these on eBay Waterproof 160W Folding Solar Panel Kit German Solar Cells & EP Solar Controller  | eBay

Just wondered if anybody had used this seller renytec before?

I sent him a message as he claims his panels are German but they are not assembled in Germany but he seems reluctant to answer when questioned about them so has anybody used this seller before.

I need a folding setup as I have limited roof space on my Wanderer.

Cheers


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## witzend (Dec 8, 2018)

I haven't used that seller but bought mine from a German seller.Don't ask where the controller came from which was part of the kit  :lol-049: But all's worked ok for several years now


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## winks (Dec 9, 2018)

If you're not committed to a folding panel how about this.

12V 150W Xplorer German Cell Solar Panel Kit - Alpha Batteries

5% membership discount available and you can upgrade to an MPPT controller and still be under the Ebay item price.


Cheers

H


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## wildebus (Dec 9, 2018)

hairydog said:


> I advise you to think again.
> Unless you have the panels on the roof, they will only work when you set them out, facing the sun. This is only feasible on a camp site with good security, and you need to move the things round every couple of hours. Totally useless for wildcamping.
> Even a small panel, flat on the roof, will be providing power all the time the sun is shining, needs no maintenance and will be far safer from the risks of theft and damage.
> Buying german-made panels might get you a slightly better quality, but it is unlikely to make much difference.
> ...


I would go along with the above.  
Fit and Forget is a lot better option then Faff and Fold


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## Nabsim (Dec 9, 2018)

wildebus said:


> I would go along with the above.
> Fit and Forget is a lot better option then Faff and Fold



Except you can optimise harvesting on short winter days if or when the sun shines


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## wildebus (Dec 9, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> Except you can optimise harvesting on short winter days if or when the sun shines


except you have to remember to take it out by the time it is light, and hope where you want to put the panels is not light-blocked by other vehicles or obstructions, and go out to adjust reguarly if you really want to optimize, and you'd be wasting your time anyway on short winter days as the harvesting will be so poor the difference in charging will be something like oh 5Ah over a day max on a 100W panel.
Life's too short


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## maingate (Dec 9, 2018)

You will find that they work much better than a flat panel in the Winter .... mine certainly did.

I wildcamped for a long time with a freestanding panel and it was never stolen or damaged.


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## redhand (Dec 9, 2018)

I started off last year with a folding panel it worked well during the hot sun in germany last june , even laid flat on front dash  of hymer when we were out.
I also would shin up the ladder and leave on roof if we were staying anywhere for more than 2 days.
This autumn i have made it semi permanent on the roof in preperation for Spain / Portugal in January.
I anticipate this will be a lot easier, it did become a bit of a pain setting up putting away etc.


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## maingate (Dec 9, 2018)

hairydog said:


> Lots of people don't lock their doors and never get burgled, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
> 
> Putting out a solar panel when you are wildcamping is talking the piss *in most (admittedly not all)* situations.
> 
> You're right about there being better output facing the sun, but it's too high a price to pay most of the time.



I never take the piss when wildcamping. Sadly, it's a dying trend.


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## peter palance (Dec 10, 2018)

*call*



maingate said:


> You will find that they work much better than a flat panel in the Winter .... mine certainly did.
> 
> I wildcamped for a long time with a freestanding panel and it was never stolen or damaged.



call your self luck,pj


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## Wooie1958 (Dec 10, 2018)

maingate said:


> You will find that they work much better than a flat panel in the Winter .... mine certainly did.
> 
> I wildcamped for a long time with a freestanding panel and it was never stolen or damaged.




Yeah but, was that not because of all the other travellers camped with you


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## maingate (Dec 10, 2018)

Wooie1958 said:


> Yeah but, was that not because of all the other travellers camped with you



That's slanderous. :mad2:

ps .... do you need any Tarmac laying?


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## schojac (Dec 10, 2018)

Surely it's a case of needs must. Roof mounted provides easiest solution in respect of setting up and also one of security. If that setup suffices then alls good. However, as in my case, when, during winter months, 200 watts is not enough the suitcase supplimentary panel is used. There's the obvious compromise with storage, secirity and the like but imo well worth it.


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## colinm (Dec 10, 2018)

wildebus said:


> I would go along with the above.
> Fit and Forget is a lot better option then Faff and Fold




We've had panels on the roof of vans for decades, might not be the ultimate in harvesting solar but have never had to faff about storing and setting up, so I must concur.


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## Dowel (Dec 10, 2018)

There is a lot of Solar information on the web. I borrowed the chart below from this site:
Designing Solar Installations - UK Solar Power Panels





I assume, although not stated, that it represents annual solar irradiance for the angles and directions shown. So over the year you get 90% of what reaches ground level with a horizontal panel. 10% less than a panel facing south at 30 to 40 degrees inclination.

That does not mean that tilting a panel to the optimum angle and direction on a winter day will not show a significant increase in watts as a percentage of the total available for that day. 

However, the gain would be relatively small as the irradiance on a December day might be only 10% of that on a summer day. So 20% more of 10% is only 2% and you may decide that is not worth the trouble.

Perhaps worth a look at the monthly average irradiance figures for your critical location(s). There are figures for a southern UK location on the web page linked to above.

Facing direct sunlight is less critical than one might think as the atmosphere diffuses the light more or less depending on the weather. Looking out of my window this morning the sky is fairly uniform pale grey and there are no discernible shadows on the ground. Even on a cloudless sunny day the short wave visible radiation is diffused more than other wavelengths which is why the sky is blue.

As a project for fun a motorised pan and tilt head, directing a focused reflector or a focussing array tracking the sun, could be interesting.


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## colinm (Dec 10, 2018)

There are (or where) systems on the market which use tracking systems, for van use they have small panels which sort of negates their effectiveness as you might as well just get a bigger panel.


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## wildebus (Dec 10, 2018)

there is an interesting app available on the google play store (maybe on Apple as well but I don't know) that will give you expected returns for solar, month by month, based on the latitude and longitude you enter.

I haven't checked any figures, but the bit I find most interesting is the difference between the months and how dramatic it is  (more so than most people imagine, I'd wager)

Search for "Solar power calculator"


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## Terrybill (Dec 10, 2018)

winks said:


> If you're not committed to a folding panel how about this.
> 
> 12V 150W Xplorer German Cell Solar Panel Kit - Alpha Batteries
> 
> ...



Cheers for that, 5% discount too, I notice also that they do a folding panel, thanks for the info


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## Terrybill (Dec 11, 2018)

Thanks for your comments. I am really restricted for space on the roof as the camper is 6 meters and there are two skylights, massive window and the tv aerial and flue, oh and an angled slope from the Luton. May have to get up and check again to see if I could put a couple of small panels up there so thanks for the input


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## wildebus (Dec 11, 2018)

Terrybill said:


> Thanks for your comments. I am really restricted for space on the roof as the camper is 6 meters and there are two skylights, massive window and the tv aerial and flue, oh and an angled slope from the Luton. May have to get up and check again to see if I could put a couple of small panels up there so thanks for the input


something to be aware of is shade.  If you find space but there is say a TV aerial casting a shadow over that area, any panel will be severely compromised while the shadow exists.
One option could be a similar approach to Phil/Admins installed.  He raised his panels with custom supports so they went over but cleared the skylights.  Of course you would loose a lot of light I imagine but would still be able to open any vents.


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## Fisherman (Dec 11, 2018)

hairydog said:


> I advise you to think again.
> Unless you have the panels on the roof, they will only work when you set them out, facing the sun. This is only feasible on a camp site with good security, and you need to move the things round every couple of hours. Totally useless for wildcamping.
> Even a small panel, flat on the roof, will be providing power all the time the sun is shining, needs no maintenance and will be far safer from the risks of theft and damage.
> Buying german-made panels might get you a slightly better quality, but it is unlikely to make much difference.
> ...



Listen to hairydog.
I have a solar panel somewhere on my roof, well I reckon it’s still there.
:lol-049:


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## maingate (Dec 11, 2018)

Fisherman said:


> *Listen to hairydog*.
> I have a solar panel somewhere on my roof, well I reckon it’s still there.
> :lol-049:



Listen to the OP .... he has said numerous times that a roof mounted panel is not feasible.


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## Fisherman (Dec 11, 2018)

maingate said:


> Listen to the OP .... he has said numerous times that a roof mounted panel is not feasible.



Oh really maingate I thought terry was considering when I read this


Thanks for your comments. I am really restricted for space on the roof as the camper is 6 meters and there are two skylights, massive window and the tv aerial and flue, oh and an angled slope from the Luton. May have to get up and check again to see if I could put a couple of small panels up there so thanks for the input

But you probably know better


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## maingate (Dec 11, 2018)

Without wanting to get into an argument, I would rather have a substantial freestanding panel than a couple of small ones on the roof.

And I am not being hypothetical like most on this thread, I operated a freestanding panel (2 actually for a short period) for a number of years. Because I am choosy where I wildcamp, although I wildcamp less these days. I also removed my wildcamping sticker from my windscreen after seeing the behaviour of a few vans with WC stickers in their windscreens.


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## Wooie1958 (Dec 11, 2018)

maingate said:


> That's slanderous. :mad2:
> 
> ps .... do you need any Tarmac laying?




Will it be level ?


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## maingate (Dec 11, 2018)

Wooie1958 said:


> Will it be level ?



To be sure, to be sure Sorr.


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## Dowel (Dec 11, 2018)

hairydog said:


> It doesn't really address geography. How far North you live makes a huge difference.



What you say is correct and that is why my post said:

_"Perhaps worth a look at the monthly average irradiance figures for your critical location(s). There are figures for a southern UK location on the web page linked to above."_

The web site page linked to in my post is for a company in Sussex and they do have that information for Crawley and Eastbourne which I guess qualify as good examples for their potential customers.


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## Fisherman (Dec 11, 2018)

hairydog said:


> If there is room for a couple of small panels, I suggest you go for it.
> The slope on the Luton is a good place, provided the panels are not at risk from tree branch strike damage. Perhaps semi-flexible might be better than glass there?
> Solar panels are not vital. People managed perfectly well without them for decades.



Hairydog that what posted by Terry I only copied and posted it.

It’s a real shame that we can not offer advice freely on here without argument.
But I reckon that you have put loads of effort into helping Terry, and I think you deserve plaudits.


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## Fisherman (Dec 11, 2018)

hairydog said:


> That is NOT what he said. He said the space is limited.



My interpretation entirely.


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## Terrybill (Dec 16, 2018)

Thanks for all of your contributions. I measured the free space available on the roof and managed to source a 100w panel that will fit alongside the heki roof light, long and narrow and less than £100. Also good deal on a MPPT controller so should be good to go for our road trip commencing in about 4 weeks.

Cheers


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## craig9760 (Dec 16, 2018)

i have some new 100w solar panels in Sheffield £70 and some 30a regulates at a £10



and got some 50w flex panels £60


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## RichardHelen262 (Dec 17, 2018)

craig9760 said:


> i have some new 100w solar panels in Sheffield £70 and some 30a regulates at a £10
> View attachment 68963
> View attachment 68964
> and got some 50w flex panels £60
> View attachment 68965



it is a pity you didn’t put these up a few days ago as I have just ordered one, and I am only in Hudds.


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## molly 2 (Dec 17, 2018)

maingate said:


> Without wanting to get into an argument, I would rather have a substantial freestanding panel than a couple of small ones on the roof.
> 
> And I am not being hypothetical like most on this thread, I operated a freestanding panel (2 actually for a short period) for a number of years. Because I am choosy where I wildcamp, although I wildcamp less these days. I also removed my wildcamping sticker from my windscreen after seeing the behaviour of a few vans with WC stickers in their windscreens.


yes you get a much more sophisticated camper on Motorhomer .com


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## molly 2 (Dec 17, 2018)

craig9760 said:


> i have some new 100w solar panels in Sheffield £70 and some 30a regulates at a £10
> View attachment 68963
> View attachment 68964
> and got some 50w flex panels £60
> View attachment 68965


 can you give the size of 100 w  panel and contact details .


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## craig9760 (Dec 17, 2018)

molly 2 said:


> can you give the size of 100 w  panel and contact details .


size 

Size:	（26.2"x39.4"x1.4")
07518609262


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## Terrybill (Dec 17, 2018)

*5% Discount*



winks said:


> If you're not committed to a folding panel how about this.
> 
> 12V 150W Xplorer German Cell Solar Panel Kit - Alpha Batteries
> 
> ...



What code do I need to put in to get the 5% discount please?  I am buying a new battery for the engine from these guys.

Cheers


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## Terrybill (Dec 17, 2018)

*Solar Panel*

This is the panel I bought if anybody is looking for a decent watt panel for a narrow space:

Photovoltaic Solar Slim Panel 100W 12V Monocrystalline Camper Caravan Chalet  | eBay

Bought the MPPT controller from Photonic Universe


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## craig9760 (Dec 17, 2018)

Terrybill said:


> This is the panel I bought if anybody is looking for a decent watt panel for a narrow space:
> 
> Photovoltaic Solar Slim Panel 100W 12V Monocrystalline Camper Caravan Chalet  | eBay
> 
> Bought the MPPT controller from Photonic Universe


will still needed to be vented


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## winks (Dec 17, 2018)

Terrybill said:


> What code do I need to put in to get the 5% discount please?  I am buying a new battery for the engine from these guys.
> 
> Cheers



Discount codes are in here...

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/full-member-special-offers-discounts/

Cheers

H


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## Terrybill (Dec 17, 2018)

craig9760 said:


> will still needed to be vented



When you say vented I am guessing that you mean there must be airflow under the panel?  I have also bought a mounting kit for the corners and long sides that will give sufficient clearance for the panel.  Is this correct?


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## Wooie1958 (Dec 18, 2018)

The standard gap beneath solar panels is 25mm / 1 inch.


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## wildebus (Dec 18, 2018)

I didn't know there was such a thing as a "standard gap"?  guess it depends on where you are measuring.  If installing on a PVC, the gap will vary between around 3" and 1/4" of an inch on the same panel due to the convex nature of the roof.


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## Terrybill (Dec 18, 2018)

Thanks for the info.  Without making it a "technical minefield" I will set the 'standard gap' to the thickness of the mounts + a good slop of sikaflex, that should do the trick.  Who knew that fitting a solar panel could be so challenging, get this one cracked and I will be progressing onto self builds next :tongue:


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## wildebus (Dec 18, 2018)

Terrybill said:


> Thanks for the info.  Without making it a "technical minefield" I will set the 'standard gap' to the thickness of the mounts + a good slop of sikaflex, that should do the trick.  Who knew that fitting a solar panel could be so challenging, get this one cracked and I will be progressing onto self builds next :tongue:


As mentioned in my post, if you are doing a fit on a ex-Panel van, check the centre of the roof as a height check.  If you have the plastic corner mounts, they are really only suitable for flat roofs as the distance between roof and panel will be too great on a curved roof.


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## molly 2 (Dec 18, 2018)

On a panel van  I would  consider a hard fixing as well as bonding,  as the bonding is only as good as  the paint adhesion . I also have very little roof space for solar panels .I found a 200 w panel  measuring 1110 by 99.2  at photonic universe .


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## barrypat (Feb 14, 2019)

*Solar Upgrade*

I am looking to upgrade my solar panels but as with everything motorhome related the more I do research the more confused I get..!
I am considering a 270W mono panel from Alpha batteries along with a decent MPPT controller.
What I am not understanding fully is the output from the panels, the 270W panel gives 30Volts and 9.09 Amps but there is a 200W panel listed that  gives 17.8Volts and 11.2 Amps. 
Does anyone have an idea which one would be the better buy ?. 
I've googled this information but still not sure which is best, if I am reading it correctly the higher voltage panels seem to provide charge in lower light conditions, would the MPPT controller output the same current regardless of input current?
Hope someone can shed some light on this.

Cheers.


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## wildebus (Feb 14, 2019)

barrypat said:


> I am looking to upgrade my solar panels but as with everything motorhome related the more I do research the more confused I get..!
> I am considering a 270W mono panel from Alpha batteries along with a decent MPPT controller.
> What I am not understanding fully is the output from the panels, the 270W panel gives 30Volts and 9.09 Amps but there is a 200W panel listed that  gives 17.8Volts and 11.2 Amps.
> Does anyone have an idea which one would be the better buy ?.
> ...


the 270W panel is nominally a 24V panel and the 200W panel is nominally a 12V Panel.
Either would work on a 12V system.  the 200W Panel could be used with MPPT or PWM;  the 270W would be a waste if used with anything other than a MPPT Controller.
Personally I would choose which one based on their Cost/Watt and how well they fit on the roof (assuming they are for a permanent roof installation) as either would work.  If they both fit equally well and the price/watt is pretty much the same, I'd go for the bigger one.
(FWIW, I have my panels setup to be a 40V input array as any power losses are always lower at a higher voltage, but you must make sure your controller can cope with the voltage level as well as current).


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## barrypat (Feb 14, 2019)

Many thanks for the info, I intend fitting a MPPT Controller, again there are so many out there, do you have a recommendation? 
Its looking like I will opt for the 270W panel from Alpha batteries, the 200W are out of stock,
Regards


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## wildebus (Feb 14, 2019)

barrypat said:


> Many thanks for the info, I intend fitting a MPPT Controller, again there are so many out there, do you have a recommendation?
> Its looking like I will opt for the 270W panel from Alpha batteries, the 200W are out of stock,
> Regards



The Victron MPPT 100/20 would be a good choice I think if you don't intend to expand the solar array.

If you are a Full Member of Motorhomer.com as well, check out the member discount offers for a 15% off code at Victron Energy Shop | Victron Multiplus | SDMO Generators | Sterling Power | Renewable Solar for this Solar Controller. With the discount code Admin has arranged I don't think you will find a better price for this excellent controller.


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