# C1 Category licence for drivers who passed their test post 1997



## richg (Jul 21, 2012)

Hi all

I was wondering if anyone has experience of getting a licence upgraded to C1 without spending a fortune?

I have done quite a bit of searching and I can't find any concise information about upgrading licenses for people who just want a large van and not have ambitions to drive HGVs professionally. In terms of licensing there doesn't seem to be much of a difference financially.

I will not rant. I will not rant....breath

I have in fallen head over heels with a van. However it's huge (well, in perspective, HGVs are huge), it's a 4 tonne Mercedes Sprinter. I own a catering business so need a good sized vehicle. I will be moving about the country a bit and can't afford B&Bs.  It's a marvelous beast and would be very comfortable set up home for a wee bit. 

However I passed my test after 1997 so I don't have the C1 category that allows you to drive anything with a gross weight of 3.5 tonnes or above.

If anyone can point me to some good discussions or articles I would be really very grateful.  

I need to understand: *Can I upgrade my licence to C1 by just applying for a provisional, taking the medical, theory tests and sit the practical independently?*

Thanks guys for any thoughts or pointers

Rich

If there just isn't much info I will be happy to collate information. I can't find much discussion that moves beyond basic facts and it's very frustrating. No I will rant if I continue!


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## vwalan (Jul 21, 2012)

far better to just go all hog and get the c . may be usefull in later life . most with ci wish they had c anyway.later go for +e make a good living then


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## dave docwra (Jul 21, 2012)

Hi, Can I suggest you check with a local driving school as they may be able to help answer your question's, another suggestion is check on the direct.gov.uk site as they have lots of information on licences & tests & you maybe able to book a test & go for it.

Dave.


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## iceman1956 (Jul 22, 2012)

dave docwra said:


> Hi, Can I suggest you check with a local driving school as they may be able to help answer your question's, another suggestion is check on the direct.gov.uk site as they have lots of information on licences & tests & you maybe able to book a test & go for it.
> 
> Dave.



I found this interesting article on searching the direct gov site: 


Changes to driving licence rules for towing trailers and caravans
From 19 January 2013, driving licence rules will be changing for towing trailers and caravans. To find out more about the changes, follow the link below.
New rules for towing trailers with a car or small vehicle
Maximum authorised mass (MAM)
In this article reference is made to the maximum authorised mass (MAM) of vehicles and trailers. This should be taken to mean the permissible maximum weight, also known as the gross vehicle weight.

Car licences held before 1 January 1997
All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM.
Drivers who hold subcategory C1+E - limited to 8.25 tonnes MAM, may apply for provisional entitlement to the new subcategory C1+E, in order to take and pass the test which will increase their combined vehicle and trailer entitlement to 12 tonnes MAM. It is not necessary to gain subcategory C1 entitlement first but drivers have to meet higher medical standards, and pass both the category C theory test and the subcategory C1+E practical test.


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## richg (Jul 22, 2012)

Thanks guys.

From DirectGov Motoring : Directgov

"If you hold a full car driving licence (category B), you might be able to apply for provisional entitlements to drive vehicles in a higher category. This is called 'staging'.

There are also circumstances where a lower category will be upgraded on your licence if you pass the driving test in a higher category. This is called 'upgrading'.

This guide is for *occupational drivers* who want to change their existing driving licence. It includes detailed information on staging and upgrading vehicle category entitlements, as well as useful telephone numbers, and links to additional sources of information and help."

I am not an "occupational driver" however 99% of material I have come across lends itself to this. My occupation is "small business owner" I don't drive for a living any more than a doctor on call drives for a living. I just need a big vehicle so I can cart stuff about

Sorry, I would just call the driving standards agency or alike, but right now large parts of my business plan are being chucked in the air. Of course any driver who arbitrarily passed before 1997 has a competitive advantage over me. Again sorry. Ranting. 

I just want this van!


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## AndyC (Jul 22, 2012)

richg said:


> I am not an "occupational driver" however 99% of material I have come across lends itself to this. My occupation is "small business owner" I don't drive for a living any more than a doctor on call drives for a living. I just need a big vehicle so I can cart stuff about


If you are carting stuff about in connection with a business then goods vehicle legislation applies. This may include operator licensing, tachograph legislation, drivers hours legislation, requirement for a CPC, etc. Much of this only applies to vehicles over 3500kg GVW.

I expect VWAlan will have info on the exact requirements.

Personally I would suggest that you look into goods vehicle legislation and/or seriously consider looking for a van with a GVW of no more than 3500kg.

AndyC


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## sss (Jul 22, 2012)

I stand to be corrected but I do believe you can take the test in your own vehicle like you can with your car.

However, I will say that using a local school to the test centre will give you a little help. The examiners are dealing with the local instructors regularly. With this in mind you the instructors will know what specifics are relevant to the roads you will be driving and mind set of the examiners at the school. Likewise the examiners know the standard of students that are being offered for exam by the school. 

I would also echo what was mentioned about going the whole hog and getting a big'un license. I did my HGV 1 and then straight on to PSV 1 after some advice. It was expensive but whilst in 'test' mode it was easy. Whilst I do not work in the trade of either anymore I have never been out of work and it has been handy at times.


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## Ste (Jul 22, 2012)

Merc sprinters have never had good payloads. I ran one along side an Iveco Daily (both xlwb 3.5t). For what you need Andy, the Iveco would do at 3.5t, it has a greater volume & higher payload. Plus no extra driving license or operating license needed.


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## richg (Jul 22, 2012)

Good advice all, thanks.

Yes the goods vehicle legislation came as a shock as well. It's £3100 for a restricted license. 

With regards to taking the test. You need to take the test in a vehicle exceeding 5 metres. A LWB Sprinter obviously wouldn't work. A complete non starter. 

I hope the campervan companies are lobbying the relevant people because in a few years time there will be more people in my position.

EDIT: Just goes to show how little useful information is out there. A call to VOSA reveals that the figure quoted above is bollocks. That's actually the amount of cash you need in your bank account to prove that you are worthy of a restricted operators license. The fee for a restricted license is more like 1k.

This sums it up, with more very pertinent information about licensing:

http://www.transportmanagersolutions.co.uk/information.htm


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## Ste (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm in the same boat as you Andy. I passed my test June '97. A larger capacity van would be beneficial to my business, but right now the extra costs just make it too expensive for me. The alternative is to just get the trailer license. A 3.5t van plus trailer would still require a tacho when towing, but is a lot cheaper & your actual payload will be increased.


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## vwalan (Jul 22, 2012)

as said you really do need to think hgv. 
forget all this goods commercial biut ,even a camper carries goods .your goods but not for hire and reward .so no cpc no tacho etc . thats why you get private hgv road tax .
right you can take a test for c1 but why better to take c then its higher up the steps for may be later. 
vehicles used for any sort of business should make proper enquireies to vosa etc. 
there are several exemptions for lots of things .
becareful with the iveco the big ones only carry about a ton at the 3500kg gvw . 
also be aware that towing trailers can put you into cpc ,tacho realms .this isnt play time it becomes a serious side .i only wanted to move vw parts and ended up with trucks, vans you name it .becomes a job on its own just monitoring the vehicles .
get a few recovery trucks etc and soon have a whole new business to over see .only wanted to run a garage and sell some parts . 
you either stay small or get cracking and do it properly .soon all drivers over 3,500kg will need cpc and digi tacho cards .if for hire and reward .
private vehicles over 7.500kg should be using tacho,s even if private since 2007.


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## Ste (Jul 22, 2012)

vwalan said:


> as said you really do need to think hgv.
> forget all this goods commercial biut ,even a camper carries goods .your goods but not for hire and reward .so no cpc no tacho etc . thats why you get private hgv road tax .
> right you can take a test for c1 but why better to take c then its higher up the steps for may be later.
> vehicles used for any sort of business should make proper enquireies to vosa etc.
> ...



This is one of the problems in my line of work. I deal at antique fairs around the country. Every fair its full of MH's without business use insurance, and vans towing huge caravans & trailers without tacho's. I know the caravans are only for sleeping in, but thats only because the vans are full of stock, which in my view makes the caravan a business tool. All thats important to me I whether I'm covered correctly (which I am), but there's so many that clearly are not.

BTW when I ran them, Iveco xlwb payload was 1245kg vs Merc's 950kg


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## vwalan (Jul 22, 2012)

hi ,i just took that fig from the new iveco leaflet. the 3950wheelbase  all depends on the roof .not right up to spec on the vans i only get the info from them in with the artic leaflets . i do know its possible to make a mini artic with 2000kg kerb weight and pull 8700kg train weight.
there is also a 7ton iveco daily now .they get bigger all the time.
yes the van market is full of fiddlers .they do squeal if caught by vosa ,but its their own fault . best stay legal i say . think carboot fairs etc vosa could have a field day . they do sometimes , good on them i say.


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## AndyC (Jul 22, 2012)

vwalan said:


> private vehicles over 7.500kg should be using tacho,s even if private since 2007.


The Department for Transport told me that, for any weight of motorhome, as long as it has 'motor caravan' on the V5C, has less than 9 passenger seats and is not used for carrying goods, no tachograph is needed, and if one is fitted it does not need to be used.

AndyC


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## Byronic (Jul 22, 2012)

AndyC said:


> The Department for Transport told me that, for any weight of motorhome, as long as it has 'motor caravan' on the V5C, has less than 9 passenger seats and is not used for carrying goods, no tachograph is needed, and if one is fitted it does not need to be used.
> 
> AndyC



As you say no tacho needed, but in my case front seats belts were required when reg. as Motor Caravan (from HGV), as there were the necessary installation fixings in place, but obviously no belts.


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## vwalan (Jul 22, 2012)

hi ,there is also the view that it does carry goods yours clothes ,food belongings .all goods of burden. 
goods can be almost anything non profit making groups or charities .even a person moving house if over 7.5 tonnes should use a tacho since 07. i agree vosa dont make a fuss about it and are prepared to accept no tacho. but carry something like books to sell or anything for profit and even in a camper they can catch you. 
sometimes accepting m,homes carries goods makes other rules more easy to understand .like taxing and licencing . 
but have a camper with a garage it really becomes a living van . that changes alsorts . carrying things not related to actually camping . my trailer became a living van because it had a garage .lose the garage its a caravan. best not though lose other perks then.


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## antiquesam (Jul 22, 2012)

Ste said:


> This is one of the problems in my line of work. I deal at antique fairs around the country. Every fair its full of MH's without business use insurance, and vans towing huge caravans & trailers without tacho's. I know the caravans are only for sleeping in, but thats only because the vans are full of stock, which in my view makes the caravan a business tool. All thats important to me I whether I'm covered correctly (which I am), but there's so many that clearly are not.
> 
> BTW when I ran them, Iveco xlwb payload was 1245kg vs Merc's 950kg



Sorry to change the subject, but are you going to Lincoln next month? I thought I would go up to have a trip down memory lane, I worked Swinderby for about 6 years and thought the August one meant I wouldn't freeze to death.


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## Ste (Jul 22, 2012)

antiquesam said:


> Sorry to change the subject, but are you going to Lincoln next month? I thought I would go up to have a trip down memory lane, I worked Swinderby for about 6 years and thought the August one meant I wouldn't freeze to death.



Hi Sam, After next week @ Wetherby I'm off up Scotland for a month long holiday, until the next Wetherby on August Bank Hol. Then straight over to Builth Wells. Combining that trip with another Hol around West Wales, then Kedleston Hall near Derby. Probably won't do Lincoln again until next year, as it keeps clashing with other events.


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## antiquesam (Jul 22, 2012)

Ste said:


> Hi Sam, After next week @ Wetherby I'm off up Scotland for a month long holiday, until the next Wetherby on August Bank Hol. Then straight over to Builth Wells. Combining that trip with another Hol around West Wales, then Kedleston Hall near Derby. Probably won't do Lincoln again until next year, as it keeps clashing with other events.



Enjoy the holiday


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## vwalan (Jul 22, 2012)

no point in down plating the sprinter just get a 3500kg one might have a better payload as very often the heavier ones have heavier springs so less payload when down plated .


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