# Battery problem



## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

2003 Peugeot Boxer Elddis Autostratus

My starting battery is dead and wondered if anyone on the forum would know where the remote jump start terminals are located.

The problem I have is .....I can’t get access to put the lead onto one of the terminals (back one as in picture)) without disconnecting a lot of electrical wires that are covering the battery. Have you got the same van as me? What happened was I hooked up to electric not knowing I had left the boiler switch on without water in the boiler. Next day the van alarm was set off with an awful smell - I believe I’ve burnt all the leisure batteries out - not sure if damaged boiler. I have no experience with electrics and wary of making more of a problem than I already have
Back to the engine battery - I have no power which is why I’m trying to get it started.


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## RichardHelen262 (Apr 12, 2020)

What lead is the back one that you cannot get to ? If it is the negative lead then you can put the jump lead or charge lead to the engine,
With your battery being where it is I wouldn’t have thought it will have remote jump terminals.
If it is that the positive is the back one then you have a couple of wires  that look like they are a fire waiting to happen one is trailing loose over the negative terminal and the other is going down and looks to be rubbing against the battery tray.
Is your battery lighting up the dash lights ?
If so and is a case of it won’t start the engine these vans are prone to the earth strap from the body to the engine corroding to check if this is the case put a jump lead from the negative terminal of your battery to the engine then try starting it


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

Helen it is the positive. Cannot get the clip on it is so tight in there with electric leads over it


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

BTW. I’ve checked for remote starting points I now know it hasn’t


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## RichardHelen262 (Apr 12, 2020)

Can you remove the battery clamp and just pull the battery forward enough to get a jump lead to it


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## Robmac (Apr 12, 2020)

I would bite the bullet and remove all of the wiring and reorganise possibly with sleeves where the wires may rub or better still re-route them.

What sort of smell was it? Bad eggs or Sulphur would suggest it was the battery, anything else and more likely the water heater. What make/model is the boiler? I would suggest it may be burnt out.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

helen262 said:


> Can you remove the battery clamp and just pull the battery forward enough to get a jump lead to it


Tried pulling the battery forward. Still no room to clamp


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I would bite the bullet and remove all of the wiring and reorganise possibly with sleeves where the wires may rub or better still re-route them.
> 
> What sort of smell was it? Bad eggs or Sulphur would suggest it was the battery, anything else and more likely the water heater. What make/model is the boiler? I would suggest it may be burnt out.


definitely bad eggs inside motorhome. I have 3 leisure batteries which could be all of them are damaged. Boiler is a trauma not sure on model


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> definitely bad eggs inside motorhome. I have 3 leisure batteries which could be all of them are damaged. Boiler is a trauma not sure on model


Gas alarm was alerting me


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## RichardHelen262 (Apr 12, 2020)

Bad egg smell sounds more likely one or more of your leisure batteries is goosed


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## Robmac (Apr 12, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Gas alarm was alerting me



I would ventilate the van and await further advice. Cooked batteries can be dangerous and I don't know enough to give any advice on how to make them safe.

There are some very good electrical/battery experts on here who will advise soon enough. Good luck and I hope there isn't too much damage..


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## Robmac (Apr 12, 2020)

...I would say though, don't try to charge the vehicle battery until you have established what the problem is.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

Robmac said:


> ...I would say though, don't try to charge the vehicle battery until you have established what the problem is.


Thank you Robmac. I think it’s going to be a hefty bill insight. I’m hoping another expert will come on board. Problem being I have is if I can’t get it going  (in the future to garage) there is no way a recovery truck can get in my property to even tow me out. It is through a gated side way entrance.


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## ChrisInNotts (Apr 12, 2020)

You can connect a battery charger (or jump starter in an emergency) positive  connector to the starter solenoid or alternator.  They both have big thick red leads going direct to the battery.  Please be very careful if you do .  That said, I don't see how leaving a mains powered heater on can damage your 12v batteries.  Go back to basics and check battery voltages with mutimeter then check fuses.

Keith


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## Robmac (Apr 12, 2020)

ChrisInNotts said:


> You can connect a battery charger (or jump starter in an emergency) positive  connector to the starter solenoid or alternator.  They both have big thick red leads going direct to the battery.  Please be very careful if you do .  That said, I don't see how leaving a mains powered heater on can damage your 12v batteries.  Go back to basics and check battery voltages with mutimeter then check fuses.
> 
> Keith



I would suggest (and it is only that!) that the EHU would power a vehicle mains charger and that is what has cooked the battery(s). Hopefully the boiler had a cut out.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Thank you Robmac. I think it’s going to be a hefty bill insight. I’m hoping another expert will come on board. Problem being I have is if I can’t get it going  (in the future to garage) there is no way a recovery truck can get in my property to even tow me out. It is through a gated side way entrance.


It takes a 3 point turn to drive it out onto the gravel area first


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## wildebus (Apr 12, 2020)

As Chris above says, get back to basics and check Voltages and all the batteries (as you have multiple leisure batteries, it would be worth disconnecting the cables to them so you can check all three just in case one is different from the rest).
Easy to panic when something like this happens but I think it is rather unlikely you have a major catastrophy beyond destoying the heater element and possibly the heater itself.


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## Robmac (Apr 12, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> It takes a 3 point turn to drive it out onto the gravel area first



It may not come to that.

If it is only leisure battery damage, once they have been made safe the vehicle battery should be able to be charged once you have sorted access to the positive dilemna.


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## ricc (Apr 12, 2020)

jump lead clamps are rather large,  battery charger ones are a lot smaller and easier to get into confined spaces.... should be possible to get a charger on there


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## macker1 (Apr 12, 2020)

If it was me I would take the main battery of the vehicle and fully charge it up while it is off reroute the leads( take some photo, so you know what goes where).
Once fully charged up. you can get the vehicle restarted. As others have said check out the leisure battery,s. The water heater should be fused check to see if it has tripped.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

ricc said:


> jump lead clamps are rather large,  battery charger ones are a lot smaller and easier to get into confined spaces.... should be possible to get a charger on there


Never thought of just putting my small battery charger on - good call.  Leisure batteries will be disconnected, charged and tested on disconnecting today. when I can get someone to test for me. I have no idea how to use a tester


macker1 said:


> If it was me I would take the main battery of the vehicle and fully charge it up while it is off reroute the leads( take some photo, so you know what goes where).
> Once fully charged up. you can get the vehicle restarted. As others have said check out the leisure battery,s. The water heater should be fused check to see if it has tripped.





macker1 said:


> If it was me I would take the main battery of the vehicle and fully charge it up while it is off reroute the leads( take some photo, so you know what goes where).
> Once fully charged up. you can get the vehicle restarted. As others have said check out the leisure battery,s. The water heater should be fused check to see if it has tripped.


hi Macker. No the fuse didn’t trip. As for rerouting I’ll look to see if there’s any give on these wires to take them away from the top of it. I couldn’t get them to move when I was trying to connect the jump clip. As previous reply  I have smaller clips to affix to put on. I’ll try this first which may give me room to do this. If not it’ll be your suggestion to go for.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

May I just thank all of you for your lovely assistance trying to help me with this dilemma xx


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## molly 2 (Apr 12, 2020)

Sounds like you need a hands on expert ,can you find a mobile sparky or contact ,aanda caravans, they are battery charger experts and do an exchange unit service    .but are in north wales.could be anything from a burnt out charger to burnt wire or fuse holder . if you connect a  battery charger  as suggested disconnect the neg post  as it could power whatever is burning just be aware of sparks when reconnecting the neg


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

molly 2 said:


> Sounds like you need a hands on expert ,can you find a mobile sparky or contact ,aanda caravans, they are battery charger experts and do an exchange unit service    .but are in north wales.could be anything from a burnt out charger to burnt wire or fuse holder .


My neighbour has just sent me a large battery charger and  it apparently can jump it too. also a multi meter - Yes dead technical so much so he said he would talk Me through it on FaceTime ( I get a WiFi signal in garden) in a couple of days giving me time to charge all leisure batteries to eliminate bad/good.
Once again thank you for your input as well


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

molly 2 said:


> Sounds like you need a hands on expert ,can you find a mobile sparky or contact ,aanda caravans, they are battery charger experts and do an exchange unit service    .but are in north wales.could be anything from a burnt out charger to burnt wire or fuse holder . if you connect a  battery charger  as suggested disconnect the neg post  as it could power whatever is burning just be aware of sparks when reconnecting the neg


Thank you, I’m taking everyone’s comments on board


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## mistericeman (Apr 12, 2020)

My betting is you've one bad battery at least out of your leisure set... 
I have the same problem jump lead wise with our Ducato.... 
Positive is right under the wing/bulkhead (and its a pain because it has a multiple connector plate too) 

I bought one of these and a suitable positive lead to connect it... 









						Longacre Battery Jumper Posts
					

Longacre battery jumper posts are an easy, innovative addition to any battery wiring circuit on cars where the battery is hidden away under the seat/in the boot etc, or where access is really quite tight. Available in positive or negative options (colour coded caps included), they can be easily...




					www.demon-tweeks.com
				




I've still not got around to fitting it though lol. 

As above I'd get a battery charger on the starter battery THEN have a check of your leisure ones.


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## FULL TIMER (Apr 12, 2020)

I will just mention if the boiler is a truma ultrastore the 240v fuse will not normally blow in your situation, there is a thermal cut out on the side of the boiler this will/ should reset its self once the mains has been switched off and everything has cooled down it is unlikely to have caused any damage to the boiler element. looking at your picture of the  battery it looks like there is a metal part coming down off the positive terminal if you follow that back I'm almost certain it will be directly connected to the positive terminal maybe you could connect the jump lead to that.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> My betting is you've one bad battery at least out of your leisure set...
> I have the same problem jump lead wise with our Ducato....
> Positive is right under the wing/bulkhead (and its a pain because it has a multiple connector plate too)
> 
> ...


Hi mistericeman. That sounds great. Just to let you know my starter battery has been on charge and I have just fired the motor up and wallah (not sure how you spell that) it has turned over. I will check it again in morning to eliminate that one from the other 3. Battery 1 on charge as we speak. Battery 2 was also put on charge for about 15 mins then the horrid smell came back again - binning that one. lastly no 3 on charge, no smell at present. I sincerely hope I can retain 2 of 3. 
I will update everyone after new one ordered. Then place everything in situ. Thereafter, check boiler and fingers crossed.  Many thanks.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 12, 2020)

FULL TIMER said:


> I will just mention if the boiler is a truma ultrastore the 240v fuse will not normally blow in your situation, there is a thermal cut out on the side of the boiler this will/ should reset its self once the mains has been switched off and everything has cooled down it is unlikely to have caused any damage to the boiler element. looking at your picture of the  battery it looks like there is a metal part coming down off the positive terminal if you follow that back I'm almost certain it will be directly connected to the positive terminal maybe you could connect the jump lead to that.


Full timer I’ll check in morning about model and if it has a thermal cut out not forgetting the metal part for future reference. As it is I have engine battery going. Checking again in morning to see if it turns over. Many thanks


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## mistericeman (Apr 12, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Hi mistericeman. That sounds great. Just to let you know my starter battery has been on charge and I have just fired the motor up and wallah (not sure how you spell that) it has turned over. I will check it again in morning to eliminate that one from the other 3. Battery 1 on charge as we speak. Battery 2 was also put on charge for about 15 mins then the horrid smell came back again - binning that one. lastly no 3 on charge, no smell at present. I sincerely hope I can retain 2 of 3.
> I will update everyone after new one ordered. Then place everything in situ. Thereafter, check boiler and fingers crossed.  Many thanks.



Sounds promising.... Hopefully things work out and you've just got one duff battery. 

AND many thanks for updating us...


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## Robmac (Apr 12, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> AND many thanks for updating us...



I thought that too. So often neglected!


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## Canalsman (Apr 12, 2020)

Replacing one out of three leisure batteries is not ideal.

The remaining two older batteries will have different electrical characteristics to the new one. The outcome may be that the bank of batteries does not charge to its full potential.

There is also a possibility the other two batteries have been damaged by the failure of the third.

I would suggest there are two options.

If the remaining two batteries have sufficient capacity to meet your needs then just use those until they need replacing. Take care to insulate and make safe the connections to the failed battery.

If you require the capacity that three batteries provide I recommend that you buy three new batteries.

Don't forget that Alpha Batteries provide a discount to members.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 16, 2020)

Hi all. 2 out of 3 batteries goosed. Other one is holding its charge. Replacements arriving tomorrow. Will place in situ once they have arrived. One question before the boiler is tackled. Would the inverter have been affected?


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## wildebus (Apr 16, 2020)

The inverter would usually have cut out when the voltage dropped to say under 11V (exact value depends on settings and model) so while that voltage is not good for the batteries, it would not usually be terminal for them).   Inverter should not be affected.


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## in h (Apr 16, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> and wallah (not sure how you spell that) it has turned over.


I think the word you are after is "voila"


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 16, 2020)

“Voila” I sincerely hope so. I can’t thank everyone so much once again. I love this site for help and explaining in laymen’s terms to those that don’t have technical knowledge Er, like me. But hey, I’ve got this far with instructions from you kind people. Update again after the weekend. Regards Patricia


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 19, 2020)

Batteries not arrived although next day delivery was Thursday. 2 phone calls and 2 emails - no reply to either. Well, testing on hold until arrival of these. Keeping everyone in the loop until then. Stay safe guys and gals.


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## Robmac (Apr 19, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Batteries not arrived although next day delivery was Thursday. 2 phone calls and 2 emails - no reply to either. Well, testing on hold until arrival of these. Keeping everyone in the loop until then. Stay safe guys and gals.



I've been getting deliveries but usually a couple of days later than advertised.

I think a lot of companies are overwhelmed because everybody is doing 'those little jobs they have been meaning to do' at the moment. Have you checked their website for a Coronavirus statement?


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 19, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I've been getting deliveries but usually a couple of days later than advertised.
> 
> I think a lot of companies are overwhelmed because everybody is doing 'those little jobs they have been meaning to do' at the moment. Have you checked their website for a Coronavirus statement?


Thanks for that. I understand about the deliveries. Me being impetuous to get on with the job doesn’t help Lol!


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## ricc (Apr 19, 2020)

all the local retail shops have shut so they get the 85%of staff wages paid by taxpayer,  nobody is driving to them anyway,   so those  online outlets that are open are a tad busy, as are the couriers.


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## Steve and Julie (Apr 19, 2020)

I'm a postman and were as busy as Christmas and royal mail network can't cope as no extra staff to cope with extra work load were about 2 days behind I've spoken to other couriers whilst out on my delivery and their the same so I expect your batteries will be delayed by a few days


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 19, 2020)

Totally agree with you ricc. I’m on the phone first thing in morning to see exactly when I will get them


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## in h (Apr 21, 2020)

Steve and Julie said:


> I'm a postman and were as busy as Christmas and royal mail network can't cope as no extra staff to cope with extra work load were about 2 days behind I've spoken to other couriers whilst out on my delivery and their the same so I expect your batteries will be delayed by a few days


Royal Mail could take extras on if they wanted. Probably more people available now than at Xmas.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 21, 2020)

Batteries arriving today finally.


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## Steve and Julie (Apr 21, 2020)

in h said:


> Royal Mail could take extras on if they wanted. Probably more people available now than at Xmas.


Royal mail haven't taken on extra staff as they say they can't afford to as they are paying sick pay to all the staff who are ill or told to self isolate


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## in h (Apr 21, 2020)

Steve and Julie said:


> Royal mail haven't taken on extra staff as they say they can't afford to as they are paying sick pay to all the staff who are ill or told to self isolate


So all the extra stuff is being sent for free? I doubt it. 
I suspect that it is more like valuing profits over service or staff.


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## Steve and Julie (Apr 21, 2020)

in h said:


> So all the extra stuff is being sent for free? I doubt it.
> I suspect that it is more like valuing profits over service or staff.


That's what we think it's a joke in our office never been so busy but can't book overtime haven't delivered my full delivery for weeks I just bring it back when I run out of time some one is making money and it certainly isn't the staff


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 24, 2020)

Good morning to my fellow campers.
update as follows:-
Connected new batteries and I’m up and running. Thankfully no damage to the boiler or inverter. System monitor is showing all correct voltage. Went through the process of EHU, GAS & 12V.....yippee!! couldn’t be more relieved I’ve got extra pennies for shoes ha ha.
Only downside I’m encountering is - the engine battery. It is showing on my multi meter ( I’m now a professional of use) tested daily on it 11.5v. But on my system monitor it saying 0. Could it be I’ve knocked a connection to the monitor whilst trying to attach jump leads or indicating a new battery replacement?
Again, I’ve appreciated you all. Thank you wholeheartedly for all your attention.


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## in h (Apr 24, 2020)

0v on the engine battery sounds like you knocked a wire off, but 11.5v is not good anyway.
Assuming that you are measuring the voltage when the battery has had no load and no charging for at least a couple of hours, 11.5v indicates that it is discharged enough to need charging immediately, or it will be damaged.
If there has been load on the battery, or if it had been charged in the last couple of hours, the voltage at the battery terminals is not an accurate way to assess its state of charge.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 24, 2020)

As I thought in h. Today solar has been over the 11.5 to how it is supposed to be.  The technical side of it wavers me to getting a new battery. i agree with you that  I may have knoocked something off when I was trying to jump it. The one thing I discovered on making sure fuses in engine compartment were all in tact. There were two 25amp looks as if they’re melted.???-  I’m going to replace those tomorrow just in case they’re important. I have no details on what goes where in fuse compartment, all other fuses are fine. Could you advise what would these 25amp be used for? Thank you for your patience.


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## in h (Apr 24, 2020)

No, sorry, I don't know. But if two 25A fuses have melted, that suggests they were somehow involved in trying to charge your faulty batteries, so were running flat out for some time. A bad connection in the fuse holder makes them heat up, which loosens the connection, making it hotter still. Replace the fuses and see how it goes. But get that 11.5v battery charged one way or another!


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## wildebus (Apr 24, 2020)

in h said:


> No, sorry, I don't know. But if two 25A fuses have melted, that suggests they were somehow involved in trying to charge your faulty batteries, so were running flat out for some time. A bad connection in the fuse holder makes them heat up, which loosens the connection, making it hotter still. Replace the fuses and see how it goes. But get that 11.5v battery charged one way or another!


As he says  

Different types of fuses and holders can cope with different loads.   It may sound odd, but all fuses are not the same even if they are rated at the same amperage.
a Blade fuse will tend to overheat a lot sooner than a Midi-type fuse as the contact area on Midi fuse holders are much more solid  (Blade fuses holders can be very prone to loose connections and not grip the blades firmly).
Most ANL Fuse holders seem to melt down when the same current in a Mega Fuse gives no issues.  

Horses for courses.



rottytara2004 said:


> ..... There were two 25amp looks as if they’re melted.???-  I’m going to replace those tomorrow just in case they’re important. I have no details on what goes where in fuse compartment, all other fuses are fine.....


What type of fuses were they?


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## in h (Apr 24, 2020)

wildebus said:


> ... a Blade fuse will tend to overheat a lot sooner than a Midi-type fuse as the contact area on Midi fuse holders are much more solid  (Blade fuses holders can be very prone to loose connections and not grip the blades firmly).
> Most ANL Fuse holders seem to melt down when the same current in a Mega Fuse gives no issues.


Thats true, but on two occasions I've had midi fuses break apart, rather then melt or blow. One was subject to a bit of vibration, but the other wasn't. Maybe I was just unlucky.
I tend to use the strip fuses instead: the sort used in fuel injectors. They fit in midi fuse holders, don't seem as easy to break, have the added advantage of being very cheap. 
You'd not want to use them near anything flammable.


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## wildebus (Apr 24, 2020)

in h said:


> Thats true, but on two occasions I've had midi fuses break apart, rather then melt or blow. One was subject to a bit of vibration, but the other wasn't. Maybe I was just unlucky.
> I tend to use the strip fuses instead: the sort used in fuel injectors. They fit in midi fuse holders, don't seem as easy to break, have the added advantage of being very cheap.
> You'd not want to use them near anything flammable.


Interesting point.  I have had that occasionally with Midi Fuses as well.  For the Midi-Fuse holders, there are the Midi Fuse, the Mini-ANL Fuse and the metal Strip Fuse.
They all have the same physical bolt-down connection which is reliable.  My preferred one I think is the Mini-ANL as the centre is translucent so you can see if the fuse is blown, whereas the Midi centres are solid and you have to use a meter to check.   
I use the strip fuses as well, but the lower amperage ones are very thin and can easily distort and stretch (reducing the amperage at the very least) if care is not take when tightening down the nuts, so I have tended to supply the Mini-ANL versions with most of my kits to avoid that issue.


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## Markd (Apr 24, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Hi mistericeman. That sounds great. Just to let you know my starter battery has been on charge and I have just fired the motor up and wallah (not sure how you spell that) it has turned over. I will check it again in morning to eliminate that one from the other 3. Battery 1 on charge as we speak. Battery 2 was also put on charge for about 15 mins then the horrid smell came back again - binning that one. lastly no 3 on charge, no smell at present. I sincerely hope I can retain 2 of 3.
> I will update everyone after new one ordered. Then place everything in situ. Thereafter, check boiler and fingers crossed.  Many thanks.


I rather suspect that putting a brand new battery in with the remaining two won't be a great success.
You won't get the capacity you expect and charging won't be efficient.
You may want to consider biting the bullet and make a clean start with 3 identical batteries.


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## Canalsman (Apr 25, 2020)

As I observed previously ...



POI Admin said:


> Replacing one out of three leisure batteries is not ideal.
> 
> The remaining two older batteries will have different electrical characteristics to the new one. The outcome may be that the bank of batteries does not charge to its full potential.
> 
> ...


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 25, 2020)

wildebus said:


> As he says
> 
> Different types of fuses and holders can cope with different loads.   It may sound odd, but all fuses are not the same even if they are rated at the same amperage.
> a Blade fuse will tend to overheat a lot sooner than a Midi-type fuse as the contact area on Midi fuse holders are much more solid  (Blade fuses holders can be very prone to loose connections and not grip the blades firmly).
> ...


Hello, it’s a blade fuse in white holder


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## Markd (Apr 25, 2020)

Sorry - somehow missed POI Admin's post.
Glad it's sorted now.


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## in h (Apr 25, 2020)

wildebus said:


> I use the strip fuses as well, but the lower amperage ones are very thin and can easily distort and stretch (reducing the amperage at the very least) if care is not take when tightening down the nuts, so I have tended to supply the Mini-ANL versions with most of my kits to avoid that issue.


Midi holders are half the price, though. If you put the strip fuse under the cable lugs, instead of on top, they're less likely to twist and stretch.


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## Scampi30 (Apr 25, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> 2003 Peugeot Boxer Elddis Autostratus
> 
> My starting battery is dead and wondered if anyone on the forum would know where the remote jump start terminals are located.
> 
> ...


you almost certainly goosed the element in the boiler, disconnect that and start checking everything again with a multimeter. Spare elements are available from leisureshop direct.Mine cost £80.00 five years ago.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 26, 2020)

Scampi30 said:


> you almost certainly goosed the element in the boiler, disconnect that and start checking everything again with a multimeter. Spare elements are available from leisureshop direct.Mine cost £80.00 five years ago.


Boiler was fine Scampi. Done all the checks etc. I was very lucky.
only problem I have now is system monitor not giving a reading on engine battery. I’ve looked near battery and can’t find anything loose. All fuses are in tact except white 25amp which I’ve ordered. So, if these don’t have an effect on the monitor I think a new battery. Unless anyone can suggest otherwise. Especially the wires to engine battery that I’m missing something somewhere.


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## Markd (Apr 26, 2020)

Even if the new fuse doesn't do the trick providing the starter battery works it doesn't matter what the monitor says.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 27, 2020)

Markd said:


> Even if the new fuse doesn't do the trick providing the starter battery works it doesn't matter what the monitor says.


Thanks Mark for your reply. What I’m proposing to do once fuses arrive is turning off the solar feed for the time being, not starting the engine up for a few days then give it another test on my multimeter and then take the reading off it. Not sure if this is the correct way, my thought on this would tell me if it’s holding it’s charge. As you said it doesn’t matter about monitor showing 0 as long as the battery is holding. At a later date I could get this seen too. Just don’t want to be stuck anywhere with a dead battery once we are allowed out on the road. Does this workaround sound feasible in your opinion? Regards


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## Markd (Apr 27, 2020)

I'm not an expert but most things 'computerised' often respond to a reboot 
Let's hope that works.


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## Markd (Apr 27, 2020)

Looking back at posts I suspect that jump start attempt may have put heavy load through fuses on battery rather than direct to terminal and blown them.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 27, 2020)

Markd said:


> I'm not an expert but most things 'computerised' often respond to a reboot
> Let's hope that works.


Hello again. So in order to reboot would that mean a garage could do this?


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 27, 2020)

Markd said:


> Looking back at posts I suspect that jump start attempt may have put heavy load through fuses on battery rather than direct to terminal and blown them.


You’ve filled me with confidence a wee bit Mark. I will let you know once they are received


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 27, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> You’ve filled me with confidence a wee bit Mark. I will let you know once they are received


Fuses that is


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## Markd (Apr 27, 2020)

By reboot I mean just disconnecting everything and starting again.
Which in effect you have done on the leisure side by replacing the batteries.
If you take the connector off the positive terminal to replace the fuses then you'll be doing the same there.
I'm quietly confident that it'll all be sorted with the new fuses.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 27, 2020)

Markd said:


> By reboot I mean just disconnecting everything and starting again.
> Which in effect you have done on the leisure side by replacing the batteries.
> If you take the connector off the positive terminal to replace the fuses then you'll be doing the same there.
> I'm quietly confident that it'll all be sorted with the new fuses.


Just to add again Mark. I put a meter across the battery with solar connected and got a reading of 12.74 volts. On removing the fuse for the solar I got a reading of 12.54 volts. I have now left the solar fuse out to monitor the engine battery for voltage drop, if any, over the next couple of days. As you can tell I’m trying everything So much so - once these 25amp fuses arrive I’m going to renew every other one in the compartment. Then I will check monitor, if no joy I’ll remove the positive terminal and reboot as described. Phew! I will get there soon


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## Colin Osborne (Apr 27, 2020)

Most batteries don't like staying flat.Lead Acid sulphate up, and more modern types the dielectic starts to decay. On most vans the leisure battery will charge if you plug the van into the mains. But you will need a charger for the engine battery. I usually charge mine once a month and then start the van a few times and move it a few feet to stop getting flats on the tyres.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 27, 2020)

Colin Osborne said:


> Most batteries don't like staying flat.Lead Acid sulphate up, and more modern types the dielectic starts to decay. On most vans the leisure battery will charge if you plug the van into the mains. But you will need a charger for the engine battery. I usually charge mine once a month and then start the van a few times and move it a few feet to stop getting flats on the tyres.


Thank you Colin. Another tip for me to take on board. Regards and thank you to you lovely people with tips and knowledge


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## in h (Apr 27, 2020)

If you have a modern vehicle that's run by a computer (or several) it is often possible to reset the computer by a complex sequence of button pressing. Normally you'd do this to clear However the data stored about how the owner likes to drive.  On my car, doing this didn't sort a problem. I disconnected the battery. I disconnected the other battery (the hidden one, seemingly used by the antilock brakes and other stability wizardry).
I waited ten minutes and reconnected the batteries.
This sorted out the display problem in the dash, but it also improved how the engine performed, which was a surprise.


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## trevskoda (Apr 27, 2020)

Colin Osborne said:


> Most batteries don't like staying flat.Lead Acid sulphate up, and more modern types the dielectic starts to decay. On most vans the leisure battery will charge if you plug the van into the mains. But you will need a charger for the engine battery. I usually charge mine once a month and then start the van a few times and move it a few feet to stop getting flats on the tyres.


Or one of these could be handy.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 28, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Or one of these could be handy.View attachment 80517


Morning Trevskoda. I’ve looked at your post and purchase of one. Now then,I like what you’ve sent but  I’m rather perplexed by it although, I see how handy this can be. Would you have a photo of your connection and place of situ in engine compartment. I seem to take in this method rather than the reading aspect which comes later. Bearing in mind to get to the back of my battery (picture in my post) is a minefield with all the wire coverage over the top of it. Once I know if the battery is not working to it’s full capacity and needs replacing. I am going to have these wires re routed by the professionals,  away somehow off the battery to make it easier for access Thank you.


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## trevskoda (Apr 28, 2020)

Simple,this little unit is a float charge to 13.7 v ,if you want it to charge starter battery from les ones then connect pos in to a les battery and ground to body,then any of the two pos outlets to the starter battery.
This will then keep the starter battery on a float without switches and relays.
Some wire and connections will be required,crimp tools and connectors are on ebay ,good luck.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 28, 2020)

Well Trev. I’m going to have someone do this for me. It’s all the wires I’ve mentioned that HAVE to sorted before more are added. I do like it though and thank you


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## trevskoda (Apr 28, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Well Trev. I’m going to have someone do this for me. It’s all the wires I’ve mentioned that HAVE to sorted before more are added. I do like it though and thank you


No problem,you could have also used a relay and switch to do the same,im out now to rewire the whole van as it had 3 fuse boxes hidden in daft places,now just one with warning led lights and where i can get at it easy,electrical work takes time and lots of brain power,can be tiring at times but i love a challange.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 28, 2020)

Sam


trevskoda said:


> No problem,you could have also used a relay and switch to do the same,im out now to rewire the whole van as it had 3 fuse boxes hidden in daft places,now just one with warning led lights and where i can get at it easy,electrical work takes time and lots of brain power,can be tiring at times but i love a challange.


Same here, with a any kind of challenge  .I’ve been tested many times with what I call a “a mans world” with mechanics. Having long nails (my only asset) being a semi retired manicurist, has sometimes made me seek assistance from a male counterpart in their manly feel good supremacy. Rubbish, just didn’t want to snap one lol! 
Funny part of a MANICURIST is once the word has been broken up MAN - macho, he thinks. CURE - man thinks he can fix with superiority and finally RIST....shall I go on or leave that to the imagination. Only part us ladies refer to this ends in ER, if you get my drift!!! Stupid word I think as an occupation for a female. My smile for the day. Admin, hope this comment is acceptable.


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## in h (Apr 28, 2020)

This device is just a pair of diodes in a box.  Pretty good diodes that can carry 10 amps (or more with a heatsink added), but diodes none the less. I forget how much voltage they drop. I may remember to measure it later.
It's clever in that it won't let electricity flow from one battery to the other, but if you put a voltage on the input, the battery with the lowest voltage will get the charge.
Unfortunately, that may not be what you want. If one battery is fully charged, its voltage will be perhaps 13v. The other battery is only half charged and the charger would be bringing it up to 14.5v in the bulk charge phase.
This device will push power into the wrong battery in this situation.
But a bigger problem is that if you connect an mppt solar controller to its input, the controller won't work: they require a power feed from the battery to start up, and this device stops them getting any power at all.
This device has its uses, but if you are keeping the batteries maintained in a long period of layup, a wire with a fuse or a 21w bulb in line is a better approach.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 28, 2020)

in h said:


> This device is just a pair of diodes on a box.  Pretty good diodes that can carry 10 amps (or more with a heatsink added), but diodes none the less. I forget how much voltage they drop. I may remember to measure it later.
> It's clever in that it won't let electricity flow from one battery to the other, but if you put a voltage on the input, the battery with the lowest voltage will get the charge.
> Unfortunately, that may not be what you want. If one battery is fully charged, it's voltage will be perhaps 13v. The other battery is only half charged and the charger would be bringing it up to 14.5v in the bulk charge phase.
> This device will push power into the wrong battery in this situation.
> ...


Last paragraph h on how this could be done?


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## harrow (Apr 28, 2020)

0.7 volts


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## in h (Apr 28, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Last paragraph h on how this could be done?


It's really easy. Use a wire that will reach from one circuit to the other. Doesn't have to be to the battery terminals: the current will be very small, so any circuit that is powered by the engine battery will do, and any circuit that is powered by the leisure batteries.
At some point in the wire (where it will be convenient for you) fit an indicator bulb. A proper bulb, not an LED! You could solder the wires to the bulb, but probably most people would prefer to use a bulb holder.
One connection to each battery's positive side, neither to earth.
An indicator bulb is normally 21 watts, so it will be designed to run at about 1.5A in normal use. That means it will have an impedance of around 8 ohms when running, perhaps 6 ohms when cold.
Assume that one battery is at 12.0v and the other is about 14.5v (on boost charge) so the voltage difference will be 2.5v. That means the bulb will pass a trickle charge of about 0.5A. Very low, but enough to keep an idle battery safely maintained.
Of course, a 55w spotlamp bulb would give a higher current (about 1A or slightly more), but few people have them in their spare bulbs set.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 28, 2020)

So are you saying. The engine battery has a trickle charge from the two solar panels on the roof. Is this what you are describing or is this another add on?


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## in h (Apr 28, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> So are you saying. The engine battery has a trickle charge from the two solar panels on the roof. Is this what you are describing or is this another add on?


Not as specific as that. It will very slowly trickle charge whichever battery is lower than the other, no matter what is charging either of them. 
It's akin to joining the batteries together, but only with a very slow wire.


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## Markd (Apr 28, 2020)

We are a long way in and have lost track of what starter battery charging arrangements are.
My personal preference is for direct solar top up using a regulator with two outputs rather than some fancy arrangement that runs the risk of preferentially robbing charge from the leisure batteries.
On brand that has a good reputation is Votronic and a 250w MPPT regulator is c£100.
MPPT regulators deliver 20-30% more charge to batteries than PWM types so can easily 'pay for themselves'
If you don't have MPPT regulator and want to add starter charging getting a Votronic is a good value way of killing two birds with one stone.


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## trevskoda (Apr 28, 2020)

Im getting a bit mixed up sorry,are you wanting to charge from solar both les and eng battery or from a onboard mains charger,my van does both ,if you tell me what you want i can draw up a w dia to work,i do need to know what bits you have so far.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 28, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Im getting a bit mixed up sorry,are you wanting to charge from solar both les and eng battery or from a onboard mains charger,my van does both ,if you tell me what you want i can draw up a w dia to work,i do need to know what bits you have so far.


as far as I’m aware:-
I have a wired system to the starting battery, with an in-line fuse incorporated. When the fuse is inserted in the engine compartment the solar panels will charge both leisure and engine batteries. I have to remove the fuse on start up or else it blows if I don’t follow this procedure.  This was on instruction from previous owner. My leisure’s are in full working order. Therefore my engine battery was to diagnose if it was goosed or just flat because of long standing over the winter.
 I’m at present charging the engine battery to full capacity and then monitoring on any loss of voltage over the next coming days. My onboard system allows me to charge engine with EHU. I’m still awaiting delivery of 25amp fuses and don’t even know if they will correct my system monitor from showing 0 on the screen.This is all I can say about the engine that I know of.
Trev,  I am looking for something that will keep my engine battery topped up as an alternative over the static months and your offer of diagrams etc would really be an asset to have without worry of no start up or drainage. My leisure’s are situated (very tightly) on the external part of the van and all electrics under the seat internally obviously. Your onboard mains charger sounds easier than all other technical advise which I know would require an electrician to do. I have challenged a lot of things with this van being a woman but I’m sure in layman’s terms I could follow what you’re describing. Heres hoping I've detailed to you, only what I know to date 
.


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## in h (Apr 28, 2020)

Markd said:


> We are a long way in and have lost track of what starter battery charging arrangements are.
> My personal preference is for direct solar top up using a regulator with two outputs rather than some fancy arrangement that runs the risk of preferentially robbing charge from the leisure batteries.
> On brand that has a good reputation is Votronic and a 250w MPPT regulator is c£100.
> MPPT regulators deliver 20-30% more charge to batteries than PWM types so can easily 'pay for themselves'
> If you don't have MPPT regulator and want to add starter charging getting a Votronic is a good value way of killing two birds with one stone.


MPPT gives better performance from your panels, but if you have 100W of panels, it would be cheaper to add another 100W of panels than replace the controller. That assumes there is room on the roof, of course. But it would give 100% more output for the same money.
The Votronic controller is fairly good (I have one, as a spare) but it only does multi-stage charging to one battery. The other output is a small trickle-charge to the "other" battery (you can choose which gets the main charge and which is "other"). 
My suggestion for a bulb in a wire connection is slightly less effective, but just as useful for a long-term layup. It's also about £100 cheaper and easier to fit.


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## in h (Apr 28, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> as far as I’m aware:-
> I have a wired system to the starting battery, with an in-line fuse incorporated. When the fuse is inserted in the engine compartment the solar panels will charge both leisure and engine batteries. I have to remove the fuse on start up or else it blows if I don’t follow this procedure.  This was on instruction from previous owner.


I don't really understand this. When you have the fuse inserted it lets the solar panels charge both batteries. That means that it must be connecting each battery's positive terminals together. That makes sense. 
Of course it means that if you run the leisure battery flat, the engine battery will be flat too, which is far from ideal in normal use. But I can see good reasons for joining them sometimes, such as now!
What I don't understand is why that fuse would blow if you started the engine. 
Normally, there would be a split charge relay cutting in when the engine started, which would effectively take all the current away from that fuse. Have you ever tried it and seen the fuse blow?
I'm also a bit surprised that you are having to wait for a replacement fuse to be delivered. Most vehicles have a few spare fuses supplied in the fuse box. 
Maybe yours didn't, or someone used them without replacing them!
It really is a good idea to have a small stock of replacement fuses of various ratings. I'd not buy cheap Chinese ones from ebay, though: they tend to be made of extra-thin metal and don't make a good contact with the fuse holder.


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## Markd (Apr 28, 2020)

It does sound as if there's a direct hard link between leisure and starter batteries.
Therefore if the fuse isn't removed before starting the engine the leisure batteries join forces with the starter battery which of course slows the fuse.

All the more reason to get a dual channel such as Votronic. With 120W panel their smallest MPPT charger which is c£90 would cope.
Arguably with 3 leisure batteries more panel power would be a good idea if there is space.
A 250w Votronic is c£125 and  could cope with the voltage from panels in series to avoid recabling I to the van.

Given the age of the van I doubt whether the original mains charger is actually capable of coping with 3 leisure and a starter battery which would be 400Ah capacity if they all get low.


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## in h (Apr 28, 2020)

Markd said:


> It does sound as if there's a direct hard link between leisure and starter batteries.
> Therefore if the fuse isn't removed before starting the engine the leisure batteries join forces with the starter battery which of course slows the fuse.


Not in my experience, it won't. 
Yes, in theory the starter current would drop the engine battery down enough to cause a hefty current through the wire, but it will probably be limited by the resistance of the wire to under what a fuse can manage. 
You have to remember that the fat cable to the starter solenoid comes direct from the starter battery, and the cable to the other battery is probably long and small, though it does depend on how thin the wire is and how hefty the fuse is.
 I've only done it once (by mistake) and the fuse didn't blow.


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## trevskoda (Apr 28, 2020)

The voltronic is good and thats what i have,however i also have a battery to battery relay with a switch in the cab so i can connect all batterys together,handy if you find starter battery low and a boost from les batterys will get you on the move,it will also let you charge from solar to all batteries,but you must remember to switch of when camping or you will drain the starter battery,here is a dia of it,i have used the neg side to switch which means no live wires in cab,just earth the switch,  proper heavy battery to battery  cable should be used.


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## Markd (Apr 28, 2020)

I bow to greater knowledge and experience.


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## trevskoda (Apr 28, 2020)

Markd said:


> I bow to greater knowledge and experience.


Hi loads of ways to solve a problem,my post is also handy for jump starting a second van as all batteries linked when required.


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## wildebus (Apr 29, 2020)

I can do the same thing with my setup, except I can turn my relay on and off via the Internet and also set it to either stay on or set a timer for it


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## trevskoda (Apr 30, 2020)

wildebus said:


> I can do the same thing with my setup, except I can turn my relay on and off via the Internet and also set it to either stay on or set a timer for it


Yes you know your stuff and i read and learn from your posts wildebus.


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 30, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> The voltronic is good and thats what i have,however i also have a battery to battery relay with a switch in the cab so i can connect all batterys together,handy if you find starter battery low and a boost from les batterys will get you on the move,it will also let you charge from solar to all batteries,but you must remember to switch of when camping or you will drain the starter battery,here is a dia of it,i have used the neg side to switch which means no live wires in cab,just earth the switch,  proper heavy battery to battery  cable should be used.View attachment 80585View attachment 80586


Hi Trev love this idea. I don’t feel confident enough to tackle this one alone. My friend said once over this horrible period he will come and look at applying your method/diagram. Again, thank you


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## Deleted member 12051 (Apr 30, 2020)

in h said:


> I don't really understand this. When you have the fuse inserted it lets the solar panels charge both batteries. That means that it must be connecting each battery's positive terminals together. That makes sense.
> Of course it means that if you run the leisure battery flat, the engine battery will be flat too, which is far from ideal in normal use. But I can see good reasons for joining them sometimes, such as now!
> What I don't understand is why that fuse would blow if you started the engine.
> Normally, there would be a split charge relay cutting in when the engine started, which would effectively take all the current away from that fuse. Have you ever tried it and seen the fuse blow?
> ...





in h said:


> I don't really understand this. When you have the fuse inserted it lets the solar panels charge both batteries. That means that it must be connecting each battery's positive terminals together. That makes sense.
> Of course it means that if you run the leisure battery flat, the engine battery will be flat too, which is far from ideal in normal use. But I can see good reasons for joining them sometimes, such as now!
> What I don't understand is why that fuse would blow if you started the engine.
> Normally, there would be a split charge relay cutting in when the engine started, which would effectively take all the current away from that fuse. Have you ever tried it and seen the fuse blow?
> ...


Hi h. Yes I have experienced the fuses blown/melted on 2 occasion. I have a printed card which I have in front of my speedo to remind me about the said fuse on before start up, since my forgetting thus before Like you I don’t buy anything Chinese especially my van parts.  I’m high risk and can’t get to a garage so I ordered them online and arrived yesterday. There weren’t any spare fuses at all in the box. I do have a collection of spares of my own but not 25amp - ordered 6 of these to replenish. Today, weather depending,  I will insert the 2 fuses, check system monitor (holding my breath to show engine battery level). Engine battery charged and now I’m monitoring any drainage. To pick your brain again, what is the voltage after fully charged should that reading be on my multi meter? I ask, as once again I’ll repeat what I’ve discussed earlier - if it drains down and needs a new battery then so be it.
Would  it drain on a daily basis? I have disconnected the solar to it as this would top it up. This has been my first encounter with batteries but I’m getting pretty knowledgeable  as time goes on. Thanks to you and others being patient with me.


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## in h (Apr 30, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> To pick your brain again, what is the voltage after fully charged should that reading be on my multi meter? I ask, as once again I’ll repeat what I’ve discussed earlier - if it drains down and needs a new battery then so be it.
> Would  it drain on a daily basis? I have disconnected the solar to it as this would top it up.


The voltage you see on the battery is only an indication of its actual state of charge after it has rested for several hours, with no charge current or discharge current.

The voltage you see when it is being charged is really what the charger has decided it should be. 

As the battery is charged, a good charger takes it through three or four charge stages: at first (or second for some chargers, that start very slowly), it pushes power in as fast as it can, and the voltage will go from about 12.0v slowly rising through the 13v range, then when the battery voltage reaches about 14.54v, it controls the charging at that voltage for a while. Some chargers have a fixed time for this phase, some measure the current needed to maintain the voltage at that. 
Either way, when the charger is satisfied that the battery is full, it then backs off the voltage to about 13.7v. Some even have a further "back off" phase, dropping to about 12.8v after a few days

So even if all that made your eyes glaze over, the takeaway is that the battery is fully charged when its charger lets the voltage reach 13.7v, but only the SECOND time it reaches that voltage, on the way DOWN from 14.54v. 

After the battery is full, if you disconnect the charger and the load, the battery should sit there at around 12.8v for several weeks or months. Unless it is faulty, or unless something is taking power from it, the battery should be 75% charged after six months doing absolutely nothing. 

The starter battery normally powers the radio in the dash, the alarm (and maybe the ECU if it is a newish van), so it could possibly run down after a month or two, even if nothing is actually switched on.

In general, the old Zig chargers used to cook batteries if left on all the time, but modern hookup chargers or modern solar charge controllers shouldn't. If the battery is being left at 13.7v or maybe 13.8v when the solar has filled it up, that's fine and I'd leave the solar panel connected.

If you join the two batteries together with your magic fuse, the solar controller will look after both of them.


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 1, 2020)

in h said:


> The voltage you see on the battery is only an indication of its actual state of charge after it has rested for several hours, with no charge current or discharge current.
> 
> The voltage you see when it is being charged is really what the charger has decided it should be.
> 
> ...


Thank you so very, very, much h. 
A smiley face on reading the above this morning and logged in my file. I have taken all of this on board with your easy to follow info. Also, the fuses arrived and voila!!! you were right. Once the 2x 25amp fuses placed back in fuse panel the onboard monitor is now displaying the battery percentage.


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 1, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Thank you so very, very, much h.
> A smiley face on reading the above this morning and logged in my file. I have taken all of this on board with your easy to follow info. Also, the fuses arrived and voila!!! you were right. Once the 2x 25amp fuses placed back in fuse panel the onboard monitor is now displaying the battery percentage.


Oops forgot to ask.....do you predict my van passing it’s MOT on Monday - a smile for you this morning Ha ha!!


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## Markd (May 1, 2020)

That's good - you've just got to remember to disconnect now


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 1, 2020)

Markd said:


> That's good - you've just got to remember to disconnect now


I believe this is the fuse you are saying?


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## wildebus (May 1, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Oops forgot to ask.....do you predict my van passing it’s MOT on Monday - a smile for you this morning Ha ha!!


You have a current MOT and it is due to be done on Monday?  Have you checked that it has not already been extended until November?


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## Markd (May 1, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> I believe this is the fuse you are saying?


Yes - you started out saying that you had to disconnect something before starting the engine.


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 2, 2020)

wildebus said:


> You have a current MOT and it is due to be done on Monday?  Have you checked that it has not already been extended until November?


Hi Wildbus. November?? Are you saying I don’t need for it to go through this on Monday? How did you know I still had my MOT running?


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## Markd (May 2, 2020)

I think it was a question rather than stalking 
If your MoT is current then you have an automatic extension.
This doesn't stop you getting another on Monday but if it fails it fails.
Technically if your van has a defect that would fail an MoT then it's not roadworthy and might be considered dangerous.


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 2, 2020)

Markd said:


> I think it was a question rather than stalking
> If your MoT is current then you have an automatic extension.
> This doesn't stop you getting another on Monday but if it fails it fails.
> Technically if your van has a defect that would fail an MoT then it's not roadworthy and might be considered dangerous.


Didn’t take it as stalking Mark Lol. Just wondered how Wildbus gto that information. Anyway on your comment I’ll cancel down. Not that it’s needed as nobody is going anywhere these days. Better to have this grace and it suits me to have the MOT  at end of year time. Thank you


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## wildebus (May 2, 2020)

I'm





rottytara2004 said:


> Didn’t take it as stalking Mark Lol. Just wondered how Wildbus gto that information. Anyway on your comment I’ll cancel down. Not that it’s needed as nobody is going anywhere these days. Better to have this grace and it suits me to have the MOT  at end of year time. Thank you


You have a dashcam that is internet enabled I think?  By the way, I would use less butter on your toast in the morning 






Yup, the "?" at the end of my first line gave it away, it was a question/supposition


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## Canalsman (May 2, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Didn’t take it as stalking Mark Lol. Just wondered how Wildbus gto that information. Anyway on your comment I’ll cancel down. Not that it’s needed as nobody is going anywhere these days. Better to have this grace and it suits me to have the MOT  at end of year time. Thank you



Better double check that your MOT has been extended here:





__





						Check the MOT history of a vehicle
					

Check the MOT history of a vehicle from 2005 onwards, including if it passed or failed, its mileage and why it failed




					www.gov.uk


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 3, 2020)

Morning all
 Contacted inspector at Mot station.His reply to cancelling my mot with this 6 months grace was not as clear cut as people think.
He stated that unless it is parked  on a drive or road side and not travelling the grace is effective. If you are found to be travelling I.e. supermarkets, pharmacies etc, you have to have your mot up to date. No concessions by police will be wavered In the event. On this note, if I need repairs or advisories on failure of mot I will be able to travel to a garage freely legally.


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 3, 2020)

POI Admin said:


> Better double check that your MOT has been extended here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Admin


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## Markd (May 3, 2020)

I'm afraid that he's spinning you a line presumably to keep the business.
Here's a link to Gov.uk website





__





						Getting an MOT
					

When you need an MOT for your vehicle, what it costs, what happens if your vehicle fails, and how to get mistakes on the MOT certificate fixed.




					www.gov.uk
				




It's quite clear that your MoT extension is fully valid and you can check that on the link already provided by others.
However if you use the van and it is found to be dangerous you could be fined - but that's no different to anytime.
Personally I think that unless a roadside defect is something you could check yourself like tyres or lights that a police officer would use discretion - as they do now.

The link I've provided explains that police will accept the MoT extension and you can retax.
Your MoT man is just plain wrong!


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 3, 2020)

Oh dear! Well, it looks like by reading the rules I don’t need to take it In tomorrow. He convinced me it’s was necessary as I stated above. Why oh why do people (even an inspector) take advantage of being female??? I’m now bloody raging and will be calling with the governments guidance. He emphasised, travelling would land me in trouble without an up to date Mot unless it was deemed urgent. I agree with you mark he must need the business!!!


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## Markd (May 3, 2020)

He probably does and if you are a longstanding loyal customer you might be inclined to give it him as I will with my MoT man if he's open when I need mine.
But it doesn't sound as if you are feeling generous


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 3, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Thank you so very, very, much h.
> A smiley face on reading the above this morning and logged in my file. I have taken all of this on board with your easy to follow info. Also, the fuses arrived and voila!!! you were right. Once the 2x 25amp fuses placed back in fuse panel the onboard monitor is now displaying the battery percentage.


Once again it’s me. I have monitored the starter battery and over 4 days it has remained the same....yes more shoes not having to replace, me thinks ha ha!
Is it prudent to say I am now able to put solar switch back to on to keep charging?
Overall I have everything working, unless you can advise any other points I can take care of? I value your knowledge wholeheartedly - even the switch thingy lol!
I am now concentrating having a birthday party (Saturday) with all the trimmings - not forgetting the champers, blasting out AC/DC ( no neighbours around) a sleepover in comfort with contentment. 
TO ALL OP‘s ON HERE.........So many thanks once again for making a due birthday complete inside my van.


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## Mickrick (May 3, 2020)

I've got a Peugeot boxer motorhome have the same problem there's a plate that clips onto the battery and battery terminal. What I did was loosen the clamp lift the plate wedge it clear of the battery and put a battery charger on overnight the clips on a charger are a lot smaller and fit


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 3, 2020)

Mickrick said:


> I've got a Peugeot boxer motorhome have the same problem there's a plate that clips onto the battery and battery terminal. What I did was loosen the clamp lift the plate wedge it clear of the battery and put a battery charger on overnight the clips on a charger are a lot smaller and fit


Not looked to see if I have clips on top. Will inspect later on. Thanks Mick


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## in h (May 3, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Morning all
> Contacted inspector at Mot station.His reply to cancelling my mot with this 6 months grace was not as clear cut as people think.
> He stated that unless it is parked  on a drive or road side and not travelling the grace is effective. If you are found to be travelling I.e. supermarkets, pharmacies etc, you have to have your mot up to date. No concessions by police will be wavered In the event. On this note, if I need repairs or advisories on failure of mot I will be able to travel to a garage freely legally.


Simply not true. If your MOT has been extended, it has been extended. Simple as that. 
I would suggest that when it does need an MOT you take it to somewhere that doesn't try to mislead you.


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## wildebus (May 3, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Morning all
> Contacted inspector at Mot station.His reply to cancelling my mot with this 6 months grace was not as clear cut as people think.
> He stated that unless it is parked  on a drive or road side and not travelling the grace is effective. If you are found to be travelling I.e. supermarkets, pharmacies etc, you have to have your mot up to date. No concessions by police will be wavered In the event. On this note, if I need repairs or advisories on failure of mot I will be able to travel to a garage freely legally.


There are lots of regulations on MOTs and testing updates, so often I could accept an MOT garage not knowing every single nuance and change in force as it is a minefield, but this extension was very clearly and publically announced, and the purpose for it was also clear - and that was for public consumption, let alone the info that will have been given to the Motor Trade.
The "inspector" you spoke to has so obviously either misinterpreted the extension rules to such a degree I wonder about either:
a) his basic ability to understand DoT rules and guidelines so as to carry out competant MOT testing;  or
b) his honesty, deliberately misleading and misinforming his customer(s) regarding this extension and what it provides.

I would certainly not use them again as I would be wary of an MOT being carried out correctly and I would go so far as contacting the authorties (DVLA? DoT?) and ask them to speak to this garage as you will likely not be the first person who has been told this by them - and bear in mind this 6 month extension program actually runs for a full year until end of March 2021*, so there are another 10 months of opportunity for this guy to mislead (lie to?) more customers.


*To explain - any vehicle with a CURRENT class 4 MOT due between 31st March 2020 and 30th March 2021 will be granted a 6 month automatic FULL MOT extension  (this applies to vehicles that will also be due their FIRST MOT in that time period, where the first MOT required is extended by 6 months from the due date)


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 3, 2020)

wildebus said:


> There are lots of regulations on MOTs and testing updates, so often I could accept an MOT garage not knowing every single nuance and change in force as it is a minefield, but this extension was very clearly and publically announced, and the purpose for it was also clear - and that was for public consumption, let alone the info that will have been given to the Motor Trade.
> The "inspector" you spoke to has so obviously either misinterpreted the extension rules to such a degree I wonder about either:
> a) his basic ability to understand DoT rules and guidelines so as to carry out competant MOT testing;  or
> b) his honesty, deliberately misleading and misinforming his customer(s) regarding this extension and what it provides.
> ...


Hello Wildbus. Thank you for the most informative read I have read. You have clarified to detail. I will make a call to DVLA as proposed by you.
one further question. Does the MOT once completed start from that date or revert to when it should have been taken I.E. mine is due tomorrow originally?


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## in h (May 3, 2020)

wildebus said:


> ...any vehicle with a CURRENT class 4 MOT due between 31st March 2020 and 30th March 2021 will be granted a 6 month automatic...


I think that answers the question I was wondering about: what happens if your motorhome is over 3.5T, it's still a Class 4 MOT, so presumably will be extended 6 months as a "car" rather than 3 months as an HGV.


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## in h (May 3, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Hello Wildbus. Thank you for the most informative read I have read. You have clarified to detail. I will make a call to DVLA as proposed by you.
> one further question. Does the MOT once completed start from that date or revert to when it should have been taken I.E. mine is due tomorrow originally?


What does the website say your MOT expiry date is now?


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## wildebus (May 3, 2020)

in h said:


> I think that answers the question I was wondering about: what happens if your motorhome is over 3.5T, it's still a Class 4 MOT, so presumably will be extended 6 months as a "car" rather than 3 months as an HGV.


I did also wonder about that initially as mine is a 4.6t with a Class 4 MOT but all the indications were it would be - and this was confirmed by a member here that said is Motorhome, taxed as a PHGV (so over 3.5t) had the MOT extended.



in h said:


> What does the website say your MOT expiry date is now?


Sorry.  thought this was a question to me....
mine is still saying expires on 16th May, but from comments posted, it looks like the extension only gets applied a few days before the expiry date, so I am not surprised it does not show expiring in November _yet_.
I think it would be handy if the DVLA MOT checker website had a little popup reminding people about the extension as many folk will still not know (but you would hope their MOT garage would be honest and advise them of their options anyway if they went to bookfor an MOT).

I was slightly annoyed at the timing of this extension annoucement, as it was done the day after I took my car for its first MOT, due on the 31st March  (so would have been extended), but on the plus side, it got its service as well, which would have been well overdue if I left it for 6 months longer.


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## wildebus (May 3, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Hello Wildbus. Thank you for the most informative read I have read. You have clarified to detail. I will make a call to DVLA as proposed by you.
> one further question. Does the MOT once completed start from that date or revert to when it should have been taken I.E. mine is due tomorrow originally?


If you get an MOT done within one month of the due date, then it will start on the day it was due  (so you will get upto 13 months rather than 12 months).  If you get the MOT done more than a month ahead, you just get the straight 12 months.

So as an example for your specific van.....
MOT is NOW due on 4th November 2021 (due to the extension)
If you decide to get an MOT carried on on the 1st June for arguments sake, the MOT will run until the 31st May 2021.
If you decide to get an MOT done anytime from 6th October 2020 upto the due date of 4th November 2020, the new MOT will run until the 3rd November 2021  (I think it is actually 30 days prior rather than a full calendar month, so for a 31 day month like October you would wait an extra day just to make sure! I do anyway).

I think a couple of people made comments about if an MOT is carried out earlier than needed and the vehicle fails, that could/would void the MOT entirely?  I think - and maybe someone could clarify? - that it depends on the seriousness of the fail if it instantly voids the MOT or not?    There are some MOT failure reasons that never used to be and really should not be now (IMO) but others where of course the vehicle should definately not be on the road!
But if you had an MOT cancelled for a 'silly' reason you could be left without a usable vehicle and could be hard to get it sorted currently, so personally I would  - and I will - be taking advantage of my own MOT getting extended from 16th May to 16th November.


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 3, 2020)

wildebus said:


> I did also wonder about that initially as mine is a 4.6t with a Class 4 MOT but all the indications were it would be - and this was confirmed by a member here that said is Motorhome, taxed as a PHGV (so over 3.5t) had the MOT extended.
> 
> 
> Sorry.  thought this was a question to me....
> ...


To add, my motorhome is a 3.8 what catagory does this fall into?


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## in h (May 3, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> To add, my motorhome is a 3.8 what catagory does this fall into?


pHGV (so the road tax is £165) but I think the MOT is Class 4. It will be very interesting to know what your MOT expiry date is next week.


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## veggiechris (May 3, 2020)

On the Peugeot Boxer the negative is usually on the RHS of the engine bay right at the front of the engine.  At least it is on my 2009 version.  Its a bit of metal that sticks out.  Boxers do have a tendency to go flat quite quickly once left with out usage (Known fault).  Apart from that they are great vehicles, I get 37 MPG (average over 2500 miles).  The 2,2 I have actually has a transit engine !


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## trevskoda (May 3, 2020)

I got the normal letter from doe N I stating my car is due a test at end of mth, but the centre is shut due to cov 19 and the fact there ramps got turned down on safe inspection as cracks in the body,they were ment to be replaced in April but centre all locked up and not picking up on the phone.


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## in h (May 3, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> I got the normal letter from doe N I stating my car is due a test at end of mth, but the centre is shut due to cov 19 and the fact there ramps got turned down on safe inspection as cracks in the body,they were ment to be replaced in April but centre all locked up and not picking up on the phone.


That's impressive. We don't get letters about MOTs in GB. You have to remember, or look it up.


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## mistericeman (May 3, 2020)

in h said:


> That's impressive. We don't get letters about MOTs in GB. You have to remember, or look it up.


 OR Set a reminder via the dvla site so you get a reminder. 





__





						Get MOT reminders
					

Sign up to get free reminders by text message or email a month before your MOT is due




					www.gov.uk


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 4, 2020)

in h said:


> What does the website say your MOT expiry date is now?


Hi. It is saying as attached h....


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## wildebus (May 4, 2020)

It will update to 11 November in a few days ....

(I understood you saying it was due today, Monday, and not NEXT Monday. if today it would have already updated with the 6 month extension)


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 4, 2020)

wildebus said:


> It will update to 11 November in a few days ....
> 
> (I understood you saying it was due today, Monday, and not NEXT Monday. if today it would have already updated with the 6 month extension)


Sorry Wildebus  . My mistake I thought it was today and not 11th. I’ll look again next week.


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 4, 2020)

veggiechris said:


> On the Peugeot Boxer the negative is usually on the RHS of the engine bay right at the front of the engine.  At least it is on my 2009 version.  Its a bit of metal that sticks out.  Boxers do have a tendency to go flat quite quickly once left with out usage (Known fault).  Apart from that they are great vehicles, I get 37 MPG (average over 2500 miles).  The 2,2 I have actually has a transit engine !


Hi veggie. Just noticed your message. Metal piece not there. Lucky you on mileage. Mine being a 2.8 and 3.850 has a lot of weight to pull. I’m satisfied with mileage though on mine at 32.


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## wildebus (May 7, 2020)

@rottytara2004    Check your MOT status if you have not do so again .... 



Looks like it is 3 working days (or 5 calendar days) before the due date when it gets updated. I'm expecting mine to change either Monday or Tuesday.


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 7, 2020)

wildebus said:


> @rottytara2004    Check your MOT status if you have not do so again ....
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like it is 3 working days (or 5 calendar days) before the due date when it gets updated. I'm expecting mine to change either Monday or Tuesday.


Thank you once again Wildebus. Just checked valid until 11/11/20


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## wildebus (May 7, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> Thank you once again Wildebus. Just checked valid until 11/11/20


Pleased it got updating as declared  It was not totally obvious from the published info when initially put out that the PHGV Motorhomes would have the extension but yours is another confirmation that it applies to all Class 4 vehicles regardless of weight (I'm still waiting on the update to mine. Still showing as 16th May)
Your van is very similar to mine in quite a few ways - both registered in 2003, both PHGV and both 2.8L engines


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 7, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Pleased it got updating as declared  It was not totally obvious from the published info when initially put out that the PHGV Motorhomes would have the extension but yours is another confirmation that it applies to all Class 4 vehicles regardless of weight (I'm still waiting on the update to mine. Still showing as 16th May)
> Your van is very similar to mine in quite a few ways - both registered in 2003, both PHGV and both 2.8L engines


Nice one Wildebus. If I have a problem ....you’re my man ha ha!


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