# Venting Leisure Batteries



## kangooroo (Jan 11, 2009)

The leisure battery has died in my Kangoo Roo and I need to buy a new 85amp replacement but can't find any to fit the 24cmW x 17cmD x 28cmH compartment.  

Whilst browsing battery sites I noticed something I hadn't previously  considered - that all battery compartments should be ventilated rather than risk an explosion from the hydrogen given off during charging batteries.

My battery was fitted into a small melamine cupboard beneath the bed.  It's neither sealed nor ventilated but I'm wondering if it should be....?  It charges from the main engine battery and I also connect a 2W solar panel to give it a boost when I'm away for a week or so to ensure there's enough power to run the light, tap and recharge camera batteries?

What arrangements do others have?  Are your battery compartments vented?

If venting is necessary how is this best achieved?

As it's not going to be very practical to vent my battery compartment, would a plastic battery box with a small hose run beneath the carpeting to protrude beneath the sliding door be adequate?

All thoughts/observations would be appreciated.

Thank You


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## Geoff.W (Jan 11, 2009)

Some batteries are semi sealed and have a "spigot" to attach a breather pipe to. One of these with the pipe securely fixed and routed outside should sort you.


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## kangooroo (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks - I'll look for these.  At the moment, I haven't found any batteries at all which will fit the existing tiny compartment so if the battery box idea might work then at least I'll be free to choose a larger battery.


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## Deleted member 207 (Jan 12, 2009)

Have a look at Gel batteries, they are sealed and can be fitted anyway that suits you. Also consider a proper leisure battery as they cope better with discharge/recharge cycles than a wet battery designed for cranking an engine.


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## PaulC (Jan 12, 2009)

Google the Sterling website it has a lot of info about batteries no it.


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## Tony Lee (Jan 13, 2009)

"old-fashioned" flooded-cell lead acid batteries will always produce oxygen and hydrogen and some nasty-smelling acidy fumes every time they are charged. This type MUST always be fully-sealed from the living space (or any space containing other equipment, especially electronics) and must be adequately vented to the outside air - preferably away from any external sources of ignition.

Your current battery is very likely to be either a Gel or AGM battery and while these type can emit just as much fumes under extreme conditions as normal lead acid ones, using a normal charger of the type correct for the battery is very unlikely to produce any emissions at all. For this reason, some manufacturers claim uL approval to mount them inside living quarters with no ventilation and no special enclosure. A conservative designer would not go quite that far, but most RV manufacturers have taken it to mean you can mount them anywhere without any worries. My MH has the first leisure battery properly protected against short circuits - as is the engine battery - both gel types and mounted under the driver and passenger front seat. The second battery fitted by the dealer is secured properly in a storage space under the dinette seat, but has no protection at all against anything conductive stored in the same space shorting out the terminals.

Last 'problem' is to make sure the existing charging system - both mains charger via EHU and the engine alternator via a split charge system if that option is fitted - are suitable for the type of battery you choose. AGM and flooded cell batteries can usually co-exist happily, by Gel usually requires a special charging regime.


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## kangooroo (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks Tony.

The battery fitted is an 85amp non-sealed, flooded-cell lead acid leisure battery lodged in a small unsealed, unventilated locker within the living area (which also includes a small gas hob) hence I'm concerned about the risks from sparks.

Charging is via either the split-charge system fitted or a conventional battery charger at home (I wild-camp so don't have a mains hook-up or any mains charging facility within the camper).

My problem now is that current 85amp batteries are 25-26cm wide and my locker is only 24cm at a tight squeeze so to replace it my options are a 55amp expensive gel battery (but this requires a different charging method??) or a sealed or unsealed lead acid leisure battery which would involve removing the side panel from the locker in order for it to fit.  Neither option is ideal unless I can work out a way to vent the 85amp lead acid battery - I've noticed the existing one has small holes at the top on each side: could a vent hose be fitted to these, passed through the locker and to the outside of the vehicle?  Would this suffice?

Please excuse me if I sound a bit thick - I'm new to motorhoming and it's the first time I've replaced a battery and suddenly realised safety issues might have previously been overlooked (and by the camper converting company).

Thanks


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## Geoff.W (Jan 14, 2009)

I think you are getting this issue out of all proportion, the "risk" is basicly a theoretical one rather than any practical likelyhood of it ever happening. Have you ever actualy known a battery to spontaniously explode under normal proper usage, after 30+ yrs in the motor trade I never have, blowing up a battery is a result of incompetence and abuse.

Couple of points to remember:-

Most vehicle batteries are under the bonnet along with lots of heat and certainly with petrol engines lots of stray high voltage sparks, if the don't explode under there you shouldn't have too much to worry about.

Thousands of motorhomes have their lesure batteries under the front seat, rarely in fully sealed boxes.

Years ago it was normal practice on vans (Commer PA/B, Ford Thames, Austin J4. etc) to put the battery behind the seat not even in a box.

All modern automotive batteries are sealed in the sense that they don't vent gasses under normal usage, the vent pipe I mentioned in my previous post is realy to vent if the battery is exessively overcharged.

A possible solution to your problem would be to use a standard "car" battery. Despite what some people will say, there is not a great deal of difference in the way they are constructed, so apart from mayby a slightly shorter life expectancy you probably wouldn,t notice that much difference.


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## Nosha (Jan 14, 2009)

Remember Hydrogen is lighter than air, so any vents need the gas to be able to rise, not fall out through the floor!


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## Tony Lee (Jan 14, 2009)

Hi Kangooroo,
From your description your battery may be a sealed type. Flooded-cell lead acid batteries always (??) have 6 screw plugs or a removable multi-cell cap so you can check the water level and add water if necessary. Your description of small holes on the top doesn't quite fit that. But yes, you may have a flooded cell battery fitted inside your living space by one of the many ignorant cowboys that still plague the RV industry and you may have not had any problems, but regardless of Geoff's long memory of what used to be acceptable, I rather doubt you would find a single battery manufacturer or professionally qualified design engineer who would go along with Geoff's presumptions of safety of conventional lead acid batteries. Even finding a manufacturer that will guarantee the safety of a Gel or AGM battery when installed in a confined living space is not as easy as current practice seems to indicate - mainly because the manufacturer has no control over what type of charger the battery is hooked to - or whether the output of the battery is properly protected against short circuit. 
A long time ago I set up a battery bank consisting of 220 2V cells to provide a high power DC source for some reactor simulation experiments. Each cell was about 5' high and 18" square and the whole system was treated with the utmost attention to proper charging and discharge procedures. All the cells were stored out in the open and charging only done at night when no-one was around. Reason was it was not uncommon to come to work to find the case of one cell split wide open and the insides thoroughly mangled. There is enough "evidence" by way of recollections and stories that such things can also happen to car batteries. Whether this is the result of carelessness or incompetence or accident is quite irrelevant and I believe it is wisest to ignore the "she'll be right mate because it never happened to me, and i've been doing it that way for 35 years" merchants and follow the best available expert advice. For the same reason, I always wear a seat belt and try to own a car with the latest safety features even though I've never known a car to spontaneously have an accident. For the same reason, we can no longer buy C Cl4 fire extinguishers and it is no longer available for removing spots from your favourite suit. It was found to be dangerous.

Having said that it shouldn't be done, your situation does allow a little more margin for safety. You charge it via the car alternator and generally this results in chronic undercharging anyway and there is far less gas emitted than is the case with putting the battery through a complete 100% charge cycle. Home, you hook it up to a conventional charger and I guess that means the locker is open and you are not normally in residence.

Still better to have proper sealing and ventilation.

I do agree with Geoff on one thing - if you are unwilling or unable to look after a genuine deep-cycle battery (meaning a proper charging cycle and never running it flat), especially the more expensive Gel or AGM type, you may find it more economical to buy the cheapest discount store starting battery you can find, treat it badly and replace it as often as it bites the dust. For the average weekend warrior and two weeks during vacation, this can work quite well. For the full-time RVer however, cheapskating is always the dearest option.


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## Deleted member 775 (Jan 14, 2009)

i cannot think of your battery exploding, my batteries are in a box under the floor with a lid on and the van has survived 26 years without mishap. i have only seen one battery explode and that was with over charging years ago, mind you it was very impressive!!!! all gasses must be within the explosive triangle ie exact quantity's of gas and oxygen and then an ignition source, very difficult to get. when i was a mechanic i have changed carbs charged batts and even filled cars with petrol whilst smoking and never had a misshap .


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## Tony Lee (Jan 16, 2009)

In nearly 50 years of driving and being driven, I have never witnessed a fatal vehicle accident and only seen one causing a serious injury - and that was due to over-speeding. 

So should I be advising members of this forum that there is no danger involved in driving or riding in a car so they don't need to wear seat belts or follow defensive or safe driving procedures.

I see a big difference - legally and morally and professionally - between myself choosing to follow a certain practice after doing my own informed risk assessment and myself recommending the same practice to others when I have no way of assessing their capacity to recognise any danger or their ability to reduce those dangers by following certain precautions. The proper approach is to assume those seeking advice are lacking in the required skills and provide responsible advice working on that basis.
In this particular case the original poster has made himself aware of proper battery venting practice and is more directly asking how to comply with those recommendations rather than whether they are a lot of old cobblers that can be ignored with perfect safety. It is pretty rare for a manufacturer to deliberately nobble a product by recommending unnecessary safety precautions, and the fact that these venting recommendations are universal is a good indication that the danger involved in not venting is not trifling.


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## kangooroo (Jan 16, 2009)

Hi

I'm guilty of starting this thread.... I'd assumed I'd simply go out and buy a replacement 24cm 85amp leisure battery to fit in the 24cm locker - then discovered that current replacements today are actually 26cm so I'd need to remove the side in order for it to fit - and that's what made me think about whether it should be vented.

I'm a relative newcomer to motorhoming, have no mechanical or technical background or knowledge so please bear with me if I've sounded highly ignorant.  A family member had a battery catch fire on his boat whilst asleep in his bunk - had he not woken in time in his fume-filled cabin, he would not be here today so this experience has made me err on the side of caution. 

The camper was converted professionally but on speaking with JC Leisure, they advise they never vent batteries but another converter was horrified to hear of an unsealed lead acid battery being charged effectively in the open, beneath my bed less than 2' away from the gas hob.

Although opinions and responses have varied, all have been valued and appreciated and I'd like to thank everyone who kindly took the time to offer advice.   I think it's safe to say that none of the local battery dealers have ever supplied a camper previously so advice from those 'in the know' and with experience is much more helpful.

And finally, I'll be opting for a sealed lead calcium to be stored in a semi-open locker (ie with a side removed) but I'll also be venting it to the exterior of the van.  It may be unnecessary but my micro-camper is my pride and joy and I'd rather be over-cautious and feel confident that it's all as safe and secure as possible.

Thank You.


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## lenny (Jan 16, 2009)

Please dont feel any guilty for your origional post Kangaroo, It was an excellent query into a subject that has never crossed my mind,and hey,Is,nt that what this forum is all about??, sharing our knowledge and experiences?.
I,ve been watching with interest the replies to your thread in the hope that someone would convince me that my leisure battery is safe in It,s position (under the drivers seat), the seat box is vented but It,s vented into the cab area,not the outside
You are right to be cautious so keep on posting and dont feel guilty


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