# Gel batteries.



## Polar Bear (Nov 19, 2015)

Whilst away last week one of my two Gel habitation batteries performed hari kari = 5 volts on multi-meter whilst other one 13.8. Problem found when the 12 volt system cut out. 

I could not find one whilst in France so as the starter engine battery is getting on a bit I bought a 120amp starter battery as a temporary fix and took the two gels off line. 
This lasted adequately but now faced with options:
 A try and find a gel to back up my old one? If I do will the old one like it's new friend or sulk?
or B change over to two wet batteries say 120amp each?
or C but two gel batteries like the ones I had 80-90amp?




I hate batteries.


----------



## witzend (Nov 19, 2015)

I'd say 2 new ones but don't forget if changing gel to wet your charger may need to be adjusted just a switch on mine


----------



## maxi77 (Nov 19, 2015)

In most domestic battery installations there is no real need for gel. If you get in a position where electrolyte will spill probably you have other more pressing problems. In general in terms of pounds for amp hours wet batteries of decent quality win almost every time.


----------



## RoadTrek Boy (Nov 19, 2015)

Bosch S5 or Varta Silver Dynamic, if you have B2B charging there is a warning. Read the following link.

Battery Technology Advances mean big savings and better batteries for Caravans/Motorhomes


----------



## 1 Cup (Nov 19, 2015)

*knacked battery GEL*

looks like you had as much power as when on electric hook up

  Have you had both of them connected since they were new? If old are they ? Did they have solar panel attached?
Never had gel batteries 
Costs and saving
My look on it is
Yearly
£3 per night away 1st year
£2 per night            2nd
£1 per night            3rd


25 days away on batteries this year complete 

105 ah = £70.00

£5.00 towards solar panel 100 watts + bits = 20 years



Just fitted pannle to roof this year and got them both summer 2014

Should be three years at £1 per night away

Good luck biggest AH with longest warranty


----------



## sparrks (Nov 19, 2015)

ColinD said:


> Bosch S5 or Varta Silver Dynamic, if you have B2B charging there is a warning. Read the following link.
> 
> Battery Technology Advances mean big savings and better batteries for Caravans/Motorhomes



Rather misleading the warning about the Sterling B2B

*"The Sterling B2B publicity, see : http://www.sterling-power.com/products-battbatt-info.htm,  says "it will fool the alternator into working at its MAXIMUM ability,  this will ensure all its surplus power is used to charge the auxiliary  battery bank to its maximum". Ask yourself when it has ever been a good idea to take anything to the maximum?"


Surely a 50A B2B is hardly going to damage a modern van alternator? I've used one for the last 8 years with zero problems. The B2B cannot pump anymore than the maximum output of the B2B or more than the batteries can take - the most I've seen mine do is around 45A for about 2 minutes before dropping to around 20A after 15-20 minutes. Batts 170Ah


"The Sterling web page states, "For best effect use Open (with removable filler caps) Lead acid batteries : avoid Gel, Sealed and AGM Batteries".

From the Sterling manual

"The charger can be programmed for all major types of batteries. I.e. open or sealed lead-acid batteries, gel and AGM batteries, all of which will be charged with their recommended charge characteristics."


*

Mine are wet lead acid but I generally leave the setting to AGM (keeps the voltage a little lower on the Waeco) but if needing the higher charge rate than I set to 'WET'


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 19, 2015)

Never use gel batts polar in van as fast recharge from alt will bugger them and its to high anyway,sealed wet lead every time,gels are for burgalar alarms /slow charge and lower voltage.


----------



## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 19, 2015)

Simple short answer  Option B

Alf


----------



## sparrks (Nov 19, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Never use gel batts polar in van as fast recharge from alt will bugger them and its to high anyway,sealed wet lead every time,gels are for burgalar alarms /slow charge and lower voltage.



Gels and AGM were designed so that if damaged the acid wouldn't seep out.


----------



## Polar Bear (Nov 19, 2015)

Any thoughts on these chaps?
DEAL PAIR OF 12V SEALED XPLORER 135 AH HEAVY DUTY BOAT LEISURE BATTERIES | eBay


----------



## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 19, 2015)

Will they look a good buy you will end up with new batteries all round now and the old ones on the Lawn Mower

Alf




Polar Bear said:


> Any thoughts on these chaps?
> DEAL PAIR OF 12V SEALED XPLORER 135 AH HEAVY DUTY BOAT LEISURE BATTERIES | eBay


----------



## maxi77 (Nov 19, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> Any thoughts on these chaps?
> DEAL PAIR OF 12V SEALED XPLORER 135 AH HEAVY DUTY BOAT LEISURE BATTERIES | eBay



Looks pretty average, 500 cycles is about the minimum offered on leisure batteries. As for the warranty the problem I always expect is just how do you prove that you have operated the battery according to their instructions


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 19, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> Any thoughts on these chaps?
> DEAL PAIR OF 12V SEALED XPLORER 135 AH HEAVY DUTY BOAT LEISURE BATTERIES | eBay



not a bad price but remember they lose a % as time goes by where as bosh and varta silver hold full wack for 5 years before starting to co down hill,but the price is higher so swings and roundabouts.
I managed to get two truck 100 amp h for 46 buck each from my iveco dealers as they are stocking bigger ones for the new range ,these are used for powering the tail lifts and are as good as any camper battery.


----------



## Johnnygm7lsi (Nov 19, 2015)

I got a pair of these, good reviews and good spec, well actually I bought 4, came complete with venting tubes

Deal Pair 12v Banner 110ah Energy Bull Ultra Deep Cycle Leisure Battery (95751) | eBay


Recommended by most manufacturers of Caravans and Motorhomes. The Banner running bull recently came out on top in a test amongst other leading manufacturers. The energy bull provided the most accurate labeled capacity and internal leisure battery composition. Ideal for Caravans with movers, Motorhomes and boats the energy bull will fit most applications and can be topped up with water to ensure longevity. Recommended for heavy duty applications and for long term use. Made in Austria Banner batteries are made with thicker plates and envelope seperators to ensure longevity.
Specification
12V  
100ah @ 20hr rate
110ah @ 100 hr rate
Dimensions: 345mm Long x 175mm Wide x 190mm Tall
Weight : 25 kg
Calcium technology
Semi Traction
Thick plates
Maintenance free.
4 Year Warranty
Also featuring advanced lead alloys that reduce the electrolyte consumption during the service life. The range requires no maintenance under normal service conditions, and complies with both DIN and EN Maintenance Free specifications.


----------



## Johnnygm7lsi (Nov 19, 2015)

This is the 4 of them


----------



## Johnnygm7lsi (Nov 19, 2015)

And here`s a youtube video on battery types

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJZlounw4oE


----------



## paintman (Nov 19, 2015)

maxi77 said:


> In most domestic battery installations there is no real need for gel. If you get in a position where electrolyte will spill probably you have other more pressing problems. In general in terms of pounds for amp hours wet batteries of decent quality win almost every time.



If you had experienced a wet battery going into trauma underneath your bed whilst sleeping as we did you may well have a change of heart. Hymer recommend a gel battery if it's positioned in the habitation area and that's exactly what we have now.


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 20, 2015)

paintman said:


> If you had experienced a wet battery going into trauma underneath your bed whilst sleeping as we did you may well have a change of heart. Hymer recommend a gel battery if it's positioned in the habitation area and that's exactly what we have now.



IIRC it's German safety regulations that specify gel batteries, they don't spill in accidents: nothing to do with Hymer, and our manual contains no recommendations on batteries.  Our service batteries are under the long bench seat and they are Varta wet ones, checked regularly! 
John


----------



## listerdiesel (Nov 20, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Never use gel batts polar in van as fast recharge from alt will bugger them and its to high anyway,sealed wet lead every time,gels are for burgalar alarms /slow charge and lower voltage.



Not true, Trev, charge acceptance on GEL and AGM batteries is actually very good, but as always the charger source needs to be properly regulated and current limited, preferably with temperature compensation as well if you are going somewhere hot.

We have twin 50A chargers on our 225ah AGM batteries, plus the solar output.

Peter


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 20, 2015)

listerdiesel said:


> Not true, Trev, charge acceptance on GEL and AGM batteries is actually very good, but as always the charger source needs to be properly regulated and current limited, preferably with temperature compensation as well if you are going somewhere hot.
> 
> We have twin 50A chargers on our 225ah AGM batteries, plus the solar output.
> 
> Peter



Altanators in older trucks are not set for the lower voltage, and as gels dont like 70 amps or more being pumped in fast the gel boils of the plates and the batterys go down fast.
Gels also do not like a fast discharge though this will not happen in vans under normal use unless you are trying to run m/waves etc through a inverter.
The chargers in some new vans are set for gels and the alt is also regulated for same lower voltage and small current to give a safe charge.
Older vans are best on sealed wets but if using open wets make sure there vented or the could be a big. bang


----------



## paintman (Nov 20, 2015)

siimplyloco said:


> IIRC it's German safety regulations that specify gel batteries, they don't spill in accidents: nothing to do with Hymer, and our manual contains no recommendations on batteries.  Our service batteries are under the long bench seat and they are Varta wet ones, checked regularly!
> John



When our battery boiled whilst we were asleep after a fine meal out together with the obligatory wine the smell of acid was horrendous, fortunately the c m alarm went off so it could of been worse, to my mind that's a safety issue.


----------



## eddyt (Nov 20, 2015)

i once had a horrible smell kept coming in van like acid or rotten eggs
i took leisure batteries off topped them up and charged on bench and de sulficated them
they were bog standard leisure batteries. they were us would not charge.
 but later the fridge went down. so i was not sure if the smell was the batteries or the fridge gas leaking 
as i did not know how to check the gas pressure on fridge


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 20, 2015)

paintman said:


> When our battery boiled whilst we were asleep after a fine meal out together with the obligatory wine the smell of acid was horrendous, fortunately the c m alarm went off so it could of been worse, to my mind that's a safety issue.



First the batts should have been in a separate sealed box to the hab area but vented to the outside,this is common practice in boats.
Do remember in a crash the acid and batts will be all over the place if not fitted in this way,and that goes for other loose objects,i once went to a smash where the spare wheel which was dumped in the back of a hatch back along with tools and not secured with the hold down bolt nearly took the head of a chap when the car rolled.


----------



## maxi77 (Nov 20, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> First the batts should have been in a separate sealed box to the hab area but vented to the outside,this is common practice in boats.
> Do remember in a crash the acid and batts will be all over the place if not fitted in this way,and that goes for other loose objects,i wonce went to a smash where the spare wheel which was dumped in the back of a hatch back along with tools and not secured with the hold down bolt nerly took the head of a chap when the car rolled.



In every boat I have owned and chartered battery installations such as you suggest were impossible. In the old diesel submarines the main batteries were under the accomodation spaces, and those were 200 cell big batteries, enough to keep your van running for years. We did however have catalitic burners tto get rid of hydrogen and didn't charge above gassing voltage dived.


----------



## listerdiesel (Nov 20, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Altanators in older trucks are not set for the lower voltage, and as gels dont like 70 amps or more being pumped in fast the gel boils of the plates and the batterys go down fast.
> Gels also do not like a fast discharge though this will not happen in vans under normal use unless you are trying to run m/waves etc through a inverter.
> The chargers in some new vans are set for gels and the alt is also regulated for same lower voltage and small current to give a safe charge.
> Older vans are best on sealed wets but if using open wets make sure there vented or the could be a big. bang



Where do you get this information from? 

Peter


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 20, 2015)

maxi77 said:


> In every boat I have owned and chartered battery installations such as you suggest were impossible. In the old diesel submarines the main batteries were under the accomodation spaces, and those were 200 cell big batteries, enough to keep your van running for years. We did however have catalitic burners tto get rid of hydrogen and didn't charge above gassing voltage dived.


Not a suggestion its regulations for boat builders and fitting practice for instalation of engines ie. outboards with starting batts.
Many people dont follow this but if a mishap happens the ins if they have any will not pay out,a good way to loose your home if a claim goes in against you the captain.


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 20, 2015)

I replaced my gel batteries in Jan this year because they were not lasting long, one was the original so 13yrs old, the other was 10yrs old, I used a microwave/electric kettle/hairdryers etc. on an inverter most of this time obviously without damaging the batteries or they would not have lasted this long,  I didn't use the van the previous year which meant the batteries were not being discharged and charged so whether that helped their demise I don't know, I did however replace them with Bosch S5 but purely on cost not because I thought they were better.
The gel batteries are now in a sealed box in the garden, charged by my old 100W solar panel (at an angle towards the sun) and they keep the garden lights running all evening so I am still getting some use out of them


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 20, 2015)

listerdiesel said:


> Where do you get this information from?
> 
> Peter



Peter there was a thread on here  all about batterys and more on the net,lots of info about all about the batterys comming out to with the new start stop cars from vw merk etc,think thats why the new bosh and varta silver were made to cope with this harsh enviroment,
Watching and reading about the fuel cell maybe batterys will become old hat in years to come,regards trev.


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 20, 2015)

tezza33 said:


> I replaced my gel batteries in Jan this year because they were not lasting long, one was the original so 13yrs old, the other was 10yrs old, I used a microwave/electric kettle/hairdryers etc. on an inverter most of this time obviously without damaging the batteries or they would not have lasted this long,  I didn't use the van the previous year which meant the batteries were not being discharged and charged so whether that helped their demise I don't know, I did however replace them with Bosch S5 but purely on cost not because I thought they were better.
> The gel batteries are now in a sealed box in the garden, charged by my old 100W solar panel (at an angle towards the sun) and they keep the garden lights running all evening so I am still getting some use out of them



Wast not want not what a good idea with the g/lights,did you have to alter anything with your charge unit in the van or does it auto find its own voltage level as some smart chargers do ,and is the engine alt run through this to regulate the charge.


----------



## hextal (Nov 20, 2015)

Get a pair of trojan t105 6v batteries. Cost a wee bit more, but you can discharge them to 80% so there's more usable ah.

Just my thoughts.


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 20, 2015)

hextal said:


> Get a pair of trojan t105 6v batteries. Cost a wee bit more, but you can discharge them to 80% so there's more usable ah.
> 
> Just my thoughts.



I could have bought  deep cyl but they were looking £135 for a 100amp h so thats why i settled on truck h/duty at much less dosh.


----------



## maxi77 (Nov 20, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Not a suggestion its regulations for boat builders and fitting practice for instalation of engines ie. outboards with starting batts.
> Many people dont follow this but if a mishap happens the ins if they have any will not pay out,a good way to loose your home if a claim goes in against you the captain.



Have you ever been in a boat, my last 2 boats were surveyed and no mention made on battery position, one was also certified by BW for use on canals and they are very very tight n regulations especially avoiding explosions. The primary gas given of by lead acid batteries is hydrogen, a very light gas which rises so as long as you have decent ventilation any gas evolved will disappear very quickly. As with caravans the main fire and explosion risk in boats is LPG especially as having holes in the bottom to let the gas escape is usually not practical


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 20, 2015)

maxi77 said:


> Have you ever been in a boat, my last 2 boats were surveyed and no mention made on battery position, one was also certified by BW for use on canals and they are very very tight n regulations especially avoiding explosions. The primary gas given of by lead acid batteries is hydrogen, a very light gas which rises so as long as you have decent ventilation any gas evolved will disappear very quickly. As with caravans the main fire and explosion risk in boats is LPG especially as having holes in the bottom to let the gas escape is usually not practical



yes i have 5 boats at the moment and you are correct the vents are at top my mistake,but they must be in a case which you can find on ebay in the boat section,and by the way im in the boat biz and a agent for outboard engines,plus i have worked on small to big boats fitting out and painting.
Plus here is a we trailer i built for my 23 ft norman,sorry about my ugly bake in picys.


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 20, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Wast not want not what a good idea with the g/lights,did you have to alter anything with your charge unit in the van or does it auto find its own voltage level as some smart chargers do ,and is the engine alt run through this to regulate the charge.


My Hymer has the Schaudt elektroblock which has a switch for gel or wet batteries, as the alternator and solar panels run through the elektroblock then as long as you have manually switched it to the type of battery it supplies the voltage required, as you said it is important for them to charge at the right voltage


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 20, 2015)

tezza33 said:


> My Hymer has the Schaudt elektroblock which has a switch for gel or wet batteries, as the alternator and solar panels run through the elektroblock then as long as you have manually switched it to the type of battery it supplies the voltage required, as you said it is important for them to charge at the right voltage



Thats handy and just what i was saying about the charge differance so elektroblock have it sorted,so much for some posters telling me im wrong or where did i get my info,you have gave me the proof thank you kind sir,regards trev.ps paddys not that thick after all.


----------



## Deadsfo (Nov 20, 2015)

Sterling BtoB chargers have a selection switch for type of battery


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 20, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Thats handy and just what i was saying about the charge differance so elektroblock have it sorted,so much for some posters telling me im wrong or where did i get my info,you have gave me the proof thank you kind sir,regards trev.ps paddys not that thick after all.


Here you are Trev, #10 is the switch from wet to gel


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 20, 2015)

tezza33 said:


> Here you are Trev, #10 is the switch from wet to gel



Thanks tezza ,my iveco only charges at 13.7 from alt so gels are no use to me as they require 14.4 at a slow and tempriture monitored charge according to the makers,mind you my old skoda puts out 14.4v but to high ampage.
Poor old polar he just wanted to buy new batts,hope he got sorted.:rolleyes2:


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 20, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Poor old polar he just wanted to buy new batts,hope he got sorted.:rolleyes2:


I wouldn't worry about Polar Bear, recently retired ex motortrade so he has probably forgotten more than most


----------



## Polar Bear (Nov 21, 2015)

Thank you all for the valued help.
We all know now that we have to change our charging system over to be able to use wet instead of gel batteries in our vans when fitted with switchable/smart chargers.


----------



## listerdiesel (Nov 21, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Peter there was a thread on here  all about batterys and more on the net,lots of info about all about the batterys comming out to with the new start stop cars from vw merk etc,think thats why the new bosh and varta silver were made to cope with this harsh enviroment,
> Watching and reading about the fuel cell maybe batterys will become old hat in years to come,regards trev.



Fine, but did YOU check on the validity of the information before repeating it here?

Bosch, not Bosh BTW.

Peter


----------



## big tom (Nov 21, 2015)

I am looking for  2 (leisure and engine)wet cell serviceable 12v 140ah batteries preferably Varta, I have done the searches but cannot find any apart from Trojan (to deep to fit) have all manufactures  stopped making them? They are to be fitted to a 1993 Hymer S700, as far as I can tell if you fit gel batteries to these older vehicles charging systems it will ruin the battery, what are you older vehicle owners fitting?


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

listerdiesel said:


> Fine, but did YOU check on the validity of the information before repeating it here?
> 
> Bosch, not Bosh BTW.
> 
> Peter



YES read the other posts.


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 21, 2015)

listerdiesel said:


> Fine, but did YOU check on the validity of the information before repeating it here?
> 
> Bosch, not Bosh BTW.
> 
> Peter



You're dead right Trev! I would have thought that if two major manufacturers specify lower _voltages_ for Gel and AGM then that would be acceptable to most people. I fitted 600Ah's worth of Marathon rack mounted AGM batteries to my boat, charged by a Victron Energy Combi unit. They are two of the most respected suppliers in the world, and whilst the batteries would accept and deliver huge currents, both suppliers specified a lower voltage charging rate.

John
Incidentally, our Trev makes the occasional spelling mistake, for which we don't correct him...


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

big tom said:


> I am looking for  2 (leisure and engine)wet cell serviceable 12v 140ah batteries preferably Varta, I have done the searches but cannot find any apart from Trojan (to deep to fit) have all manufactures  stopped making them? They are to be fitted to a 1993 Hymer S700, as far as I can tell if you fit gel batteries to these older vehicles charging systems it will ruin the battery, what are you older vehicle owners fitting?



Hi use wet sealed or agm ,you will see them on ebay but any good batt shop should be able to help and as you want 2 try asking for a bit of discount,there is a discount on batts somewhere on this site to.


----------



## jmd100 (Nov 21, 2015)

If you have agm  batteries what setting should they be on gel or wet battery setting at the moment it's set on gel.

John d


----------



## Johnnygm7lsi (Nov 21, 2015)

big tom said:


> I am looking for  2 (leisure and engine)wet cell serviceable 12v 140ah batteries preferably Varta, I have done the searches but cannot find any apart from Trojan (to deep to fit) have all manufactures  stopped making them? They are to be fitted to a 1993 Hymer S700, as far as I can tell if you fit gel batteries to these older vehicles charging systems it will ruin the battery, what are you older vehicle owners fitting?



Have a look at Alpha batteries, WC discount available on selected brands   



Buy a Varta Battery Online - Cheap Varta Batteries - Alpha Batteries


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

siimplyloco said:


> You're dead right Trev! I would have thought that if two major manufacturers specify lower _voltages_ for Gel and AGM then that would be acceptable to most people. I fitted 600Ah's worth of Marathon rack mounted AGM batteries to my boat, charged by a Victron Energy Combi unit. They are two of the most respected suppliers in the world, and whilst the batteries would accept and deliver huge currents, both suppliers specified a lower voltage charging rate.
> 
> John
> Incidentally, our Trev makes the occasional spelling mistake, for which we don't correct him...



Thank you,i may not be a good speller but a reader i am,regards trev the dyslexic.


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

jmd100 said:


> If you have agm  batteries what setting should they be on gel or wet battery setting at the moment it's set on gel.
> 
> John d


Wet, but you will get away with it but not the other way round as the lower voltage will not top the gells of right and they would never reach there full charge.
I would set it back to wet charge as in long runs or summer you may boil and dry out the wet/agm batterys.


----------



## listerdiesel (Nov 21, 2015)

Looking in detail:

"Sonnenschein GEL battery 12V 120AH has a cold start cranking current of 920Amps, and that battery is sold as "Sonnenschein Sportsline SL135, Gel Battery for Starting, Continuous Power and Solar Storage".

That knocks one myth on the head: "Gels also do not like a fast discharge".

"Sonnenschein dryfit & Gel-tech batteries are extremely efficient when recharging. Because of this high efficiency, it takes less time to recharge. By design - dryfit Gel technology is self limiting on current!

Initial charge acceptance is very high ( Approx; 4xC20, or *320 Amps for an 80A *dryfit)   and then settles to the normal  recharge rate of approx; ½ x C20 or 40A for an 80A dryfit.  Note that constant voltage is the preferred recharge method! "

Thats knocks another myth on the head "gels dont like 70 amps or more being pumped in fast".

I've used Sonnenschein as an example, but the data are typical across many ranges of GEL batteries.

Charge voltage needs to be set for specific battery types, but vehicle alternator settings are OK for cyclic charging, not for continuous operation. 

Too many myths surrounding what is after all basically a lead-acid battery. The information I have quoted is from manufacturer's or distributors websites, all freely available if you look for it.

Peter


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

listerdiesel said:


> Looking in detail:
> 
> "Sonnenschein GEL battery 12V 120AH has a cold start cranking current of 920Amps, and that battery is sold as "Sonnenschein Sportsline SL135, Gel Battery for Starting, Continuous Power and Solar Storage".
> 
> ...


I read what you have printed peter but other batt makers say the oposite ,so who is correct and why are there switches on chargers to change voltage and current,maybe the latest batts are better built but for older vans and price i think i will stick to wets,regards trev.


----------



## hextal (Nov 21, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> I read what you have printed peter but other batt makers say the oposite ,so who is correct and why are there switches on chargers to change voltage and current,maybe the latest batts are better built but for older vans and price i think i will stick to wets,regards trev.



Agreed. 

Trojan* are one of the 'big guns' when it comes to supplying industrial/commercial batteries, and are certainly one of the go to suppliers for domestic use. They recommend different charge profiles for their flooded, agm and gel batteries.

*I'm not trying to suggest this trumps other data, just that it is available data from a plausible/reputable source.

Edit.     Just looking at the sonnenscheine literature, it states charging should be between 2.35 and 2.4v per cell, so Max 14.4v per 12v unit. This is pretty much as per trojan 'et al' which give a lower value of 14.4v for gel/agm and higher value of circa 14.8v for flooded cell batteries.

At the end of the day, I don't think any one type of battery type is better than another, they are just designed for different requirements and uses, so it's just a case of picking one to best match your needs.


----------



## maxi77 (Nov 21, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> I read what you have printed peter but other batt makers say the oposite ,so who is correct and why are there switches on chargers to change voltage and current,maybe the latest batts are better built but for older vans and price i think i will stick to wets,regards trev.



Whilst I would tend to agree that wet batteries tend to offer the best value in terms of £ for Amps the differing technologies can all be made to suit different uses. Wet batteries made for starting tend not to like deep discharges whilst true traction batteries cannot deliver very high currents and tend to be damaged by them. The big thing is to read the battery specs and if they are not available that is perhaps an indication of whether they really are what they say they are


----------



## listerdiesel (Nov 21, 2015)

I'm not concerned about which type of lead-acid technology anyone uses, I just wanted to correct the blanket assertions made by Trev about Gel batteries in particular.

In the middle of forum discussions it is easy to pick up the wrong end of the stick on these things quite easily.

Peter


----------



## listerdiesel (Nov 21, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> I read what you have printed peter but other batt makers say the oposite ,so who is correct and why are there switches on chargers to change voltage and current,maybe the latest batts are better built but for older vans and price i think i will stick to wets,regards trev.



Trev:

I have tried to show that Gel batteries are not as restricted as you stated, nothing else.

All battery types have different charging voltages and sometimes charging current limits, but generally you can reckon that any good lead-acid battery will take a heavy charge and discharge, except for some tubular plate Plante cells which are not designed for heavy discharges, but virtually all flat plate batteries will support high discharge rates.

My day job is designing and building battery chargers for industrial and rail users, although we do not make anything consumer-related and I don't have any of our chargers in our Mercedes!  We also use a lot of batteries of many types each year in DC standby systems, so we are in touch with the battery industry as well.

We make small chargers:







Bigger chargers:






And even bigger chargers:






That last one is 100kW output rating for a 600V battery.

Batteries:

Old:






New:






We don't sell to the general public, but I thought that at least you could see the background to where I get my information from.

Peter


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

listerdiesel said:


> Trev:
> 
> I have tried to show that Gel batteries are not as restricted as you stated, nothing else.
> 
> ...


Guilty as charged then.
Think you have passed the acid test. :scared::wave:


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 21, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Guilty as charged then.
> Think you have passed the acid test. :scared::wave:



With jokes like that you should be in a cell of your own!
[I[/I]


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

not sure i have been making negative or positive post now.:wacko:
Im prob in for a battery  ing now.


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 21, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> not sure i have been making negative or positive post now.:wacko:
> Im prob in for a battery  ing now.



You probably have better connections on here than most people!


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

Now that i have all the evidence on a PLATE now i will have a rethink and RECHARGE my brain cells.


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

Im putting my name down for priminister next time round ,you can all vote for me at the next electrons.


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 21, 2015)

You must have 'accumulated' a lot of info on here Trev


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 21, 2015)

tezza33 said:


> You must have 'accumulated' a lot of info on here Trev



But some on here would dispute the rate at which he could absorb it!


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

tezza33 said:


> You must have 'accumulated' a lot of info on here Trev



Yes but i have been LEAD astray.


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2015)

Thank you all for the positive POSTS but im of to my 4 poster,night all.:sleep-027:


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 21, 2015)

You have too much on your plate


----------



## Polar Bear (Nov 21, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Thank you all for the positive POSTS but im of to my 4 poster,night all.:sleep-027:



Not before you are charged with assaulting a battery!


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 21, 2015)

I gave all my old flat batteries away, free of charge View attachment 35364View attachment 35364View attachment 35364View attachment 35364View attachment 35364


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 22, 2015)

I recon polar has all the answers on a PLATE now and can CHARGE on with the instalation with out a BATTERY of extra posts.


----------



## Johnnygm7lsi (Nov 22, 2015)

You guys can certainly get some mileage out of a gel battery


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 22, 2015)

Johnnygm7lsi said:


> You guys can certainly get some mileage out of a gel battery



Agreed, but  some of the puns are being deep (re)cycled!


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 22, 2015)

The POSTS keep CHARGING on.this may be the ACID test.


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 22, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> The POSTS keep CHARGING on.this may be the ACID test.



See what I mean??


----------



## Polar Bear (Nov 22, 2015)

siimplyloco said:


> See what I mean??



And WATTS wrong with that?


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 22, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> And WATTS wrong with that?



I didn't get that as I'm from 'ampshire...


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 22, 2015)

Under the CURRENT situation i think its SHOCKING for all the bright SPARKS on here.


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 22, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> Under the CURRENT situation i think its SHOCKING for all the bright SPARKS on here.



Your connection is fading fast Trev...


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 22, 2015)

Yes and im not from WATTford.


----------



## Polar Bear (Nov 22, 2015)

I AMP POSITIVE Trev can take CHARGE of the CURRENT situation and not go FLAT when the NEGATIVE views of others are POLES apart!


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 22, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> I AMP POSITIVE Trev can take CHARGE of the CURRENT situation and not go FLAT when the NEGATIVE views of others are POLES apart!



This conversation has now gone TERMINAL!


----------



## 2cv (Nov 22, 2015)

Ohm my god! I don't know watt to make of these bright sparks. Some posts fall flat but others are charged with humour. The acid test will be if this helps us to gel, in the current situation we need something to lighten things. I think charging batteries is revolting :wave: :wave:


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 22, 2015)

2cv said:


> I think charging batteries is revolting


View attachment 35379View attachment 35380View attachment 35380View attachment 35380View attachment 35380View attachment 35380


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 22, 2015)

Some posts are totally electrifying while others leave you felling flat.


----------



## sparrks (Nov 22, 2015)

Watts up? Heck of a lot of gassing going on in this thread, so much so, that you could be charged with asort of battery.


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 22, 2015)

Some folk dont have the AMPTATUDE to keep a thread going FLAT like we have been CHARGED to do.


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 22, 2015)

I can't stand anymore battery humour so I have decided to go deepcycling


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 22, 2015)

tezza33 said:


> I can't stand anymore battery humour so I have decided to go deepcycling



Looking for the sunken boats from the battle on the river PLATE.


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 22, 2015)

Obviously wet batteries as well Trev:dog:


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 22, 2015)

And this thread wont go FLAT at the rate it keeps CHARGING on.


----------



## molly 2 (Nov 23, 2015)

This thread has finally gone flat


----------



## Johnnygm7lsi (Nov 23, 2015)

Only 9 battery posts to go now


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 23, 2015)

My battery has two posts some have four,could this be classed if CHARGED fast as POST to POST racing battery.


----------



## Polar Bear (Nov 23, 2015)

Poor old Trev asked a lady for a JUMP but she told him his POSTS were too dirty and his JUMP LEAD corroded. After cleaning and BOOSTING  them he ended up in the CELLS for the night CHARGED with FLASHING.


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 23, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> Poor old Trev asked a lady for a JUMP but she told him his POSTS were too dirty and his JUMP LEAD corroded. After cleaning and BOOSTING  them he ended up in the CELLS for the night CHARGED with FLASHING.



Statements like that should be REGULATED!


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 23, 2015)

Milk of magnesia for ACID trouble


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 23, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> Poor old Trev asked a lady for a JUMP but she told him his POSTS were too dirty and his JUMP LEAD corroded. After cleaning and BOOSTING  them he ended up in the CELLS for the night CHARGED with FLASHING.



She hit me ,could i CHARGE her with assult and BATTERY.


----------



## molly 2 (Nov 23, 2015)

Is it better to buy   AA  battery's   or nicad recharble?  Thinking about my carbon footprint,


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 23, 2015)

*Watt* size shoe does your carbon wear


----------



## 2cv (Nov 23, 2015)

Not varta go now!


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 23, 2015)

We need gordon ramsey to come in take CHARGE and PLATE up.


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 23, 2015)

100 posts about batteries and the original question hasn't been answered but at least we all gel together


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 23, 2015)

Well i got the 100 POST or was it AMPS bet your all GELus.


----------



## molly 2 (Nov 23, 2015)

OK I submit


----------



## Siimplyloco (Nov 24, 2015)

molly 2 said:


> OK I submit



Guilty as charged then?


----------



## Tezza33 (Nov 24, 2015)

I have put my batteries in a *bank* to be safe, I don't trust any of you, I have heard rumours you connect electric cables to them, that is torture


----------

