# Forestry and land Stay the Night Cut Short



## Fazerloz (Aug 10, 2020)

The trial has been cut short no doubt pressure from campsite owners. 








						Stay the Night
					

Everything you need to know about FLS' Stay the Night scheme where self-contained campervans can park overnight in some of our forest car parks.




					forestryandland.gov.scot


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## Aly (Aug 10, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> The trial has been cut short no doubt pressure from campsite owners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, the way it’s worded appears to be due to campsite owners objecting!


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## caledonia (Aug 10, 2020)

What a shame


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## Fazerloz (Aug 10, 2020)

Seems a shame as they say it was a success. I was in the one at AE on Sat night and it was great.


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## 2cv (Aug 10, 2020)

It is a shame. We called in at one today and there were at least 10 vans set for the night. Caravan site owners should realise that getting this stopped will merely mean motorhome users finding elsewhere to stay, not onto their sites providing facilities not needed at great expense.
Smaller cl type sites I feel provide a useful facility to self contained motorhomes to fill and empty tanks and maybe top up batteries occasionally but most vans have no need of the facilities provided for caravan users at larger sites.
Full marks though to Forestry and Land Scotland for attempting to provide what is really needed.


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## AldoTheCampervan (Aug 10, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> The trial has been cut short no doubt pressure from campsite owners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


****, I only saw that 2 days ago, was going to use for Scotland trip beginning of September. Grrr


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## AldoTheCampervan (Aug 10, 2020)

2cv said:


> It is a shame. We called in at one today and there were at least 10 vans set for the night. Caravan site owners should realise that getting this stopped will merely mean motorhome users finding elsewhere to stay, not onto their sites providing facilities not needed at great expense.
> Smaller cl type sites I feel provide a useful facility to self contained motorhomes to fill and empty tanks and maybe top up batteries occasionally but most vans have no need of the facilities provided for caravan users at larger sites.
> Full marks though to Forestry and Land Scotland for attempting to provide what is really needed.


Yeh, at the moment I wouldn't use public showers anyway so £20 plus to have a plot of grass and fill up on water is a bit steep, mental! Hoping we can find plenty of other spots next month.


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## Tim120 (Aug 11, 2020)

Was this an honesty box arrangement?
I hope they continue to do well.


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## runnach (Aug 11, 2020)

Tim120 said:


> Was this an honesty box arrangement?
> I hope they continue to do well.


Reading the post regarding honesty boxes I think a successful outcome looks unlikely


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## Bigbaz (Aug 11, 2020)

Is it the free camping that’s ended and it’s now £5 pn which is what they said it would be after the trial??


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## yorkslass (Aug 11, 2020)

Bigbaz said:


> Is it the free camping that’s ended and it’s now £5 pn which is what they said it would be after the trial??


It sounds like it is ending due to protests from campsite owners.......not till the end of August though. I wish the campsite owners would realise that they will never force/ coerce folks to use their sites. I know they have overheads to cover, but some of the prices I have seen to park on a piece of grass, .....I know there is access to water and toilet emptying.....is ridiculous.....often as much as a stay in a bed and breakfast.


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## davep10000 (Aug 11, 2020)

The red squirrel camp site Glencoe gets my vote for the most expensive site - great location, but for a family of 4 ( with 2 teenage kids) its £50 a night for a tent!!


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## mjvw (Aug 11, 2020)

Last year we needed to sort out our water and black waste, Red squirrel was very expensive and no Hook up to charge our batteries, so with the help of the POI's found a lovely overnight spot, next day used a site that was a reasonable price to sort out our services.


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## number14 (Aug 11, 2020)

This is on the forestry survey page.

"If you have any questions or comments about the survey or the trial, please email campervantrial@forestryandland.gov.scot"

SWMBO is on a motorhoming Facebook group (sorry about that) and many there are using the email address to express their disappointment and saying that they are cancelling their Scottish autumn trip whilst adding all the other arguments that we here are familiar with.

I shall add my three penneth later today.


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## mjvw (Aug 11, 2020)

I responded with a up beat positive email outlining all the benefits to the local community of embracing self contained units overnight parking that only leave Tyre tracks. I did say i was disappointing that the scheme will be ending at the end of August.
I also said i would be open to a reasonable  surcharge for use of the land that could be put into a community fund. Something along the lines of the https://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/things-to-do/camping/get-a-permit/ I have used this service a lot and have found it very well run and reasonable pricing.


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## Wooie1958 (Aug 11, 2020)

runnach said:


> Just act daft and stay. I would.



That`s easier said than done and clearly comes natural for some


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## Luckheart (Aug 11, 2020)

Have just managed to book a few nights away after months of shielding so a bit apprehensive of wilding at the moment. It has taken days to work out a route - taking in Dungeness, Aldeburgh and Grafham water using small sites and CLs.
THEY ARE NEARLY ALL FULL! or demanding a min 3 day stay for a kings ransom. Where are we taking business away from anyone! They are however 
"coming off my Christmas list" when they are touting for my presence after the mattress in a builders van mob decide they prefer Magaluf. 

That's better.


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## Fisherman (Aug 11, 2020)

I was at Ratagan car park no honesty box or any means of leaving a donation in place. I am confused by their message. The campsites are mainly full, many are closed, so I don’t see what their problem is. Quite frankly this stinks to high hilt. These car parks are well used by cars during the day then empty of cars at night. At Ratagan most turned up at around 8pm and left early next morning. When we left the carpark was empty. All the campsites up there were either closed or had signs saying they were full. Why they are doing this is beyond me.


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## Bossangel (Aug 11, 2020)

davep10000 said:


> The red squirrel camp site Glencoe gets my vote for the most expensive site - great location, but for a family of 4 ( with 2 teenage kids) its £50 a night for a tent!!


I can remember this site 27 years ago when it was just a tap in the field and sheep bouncing off the tent in the middle of the night, it was a fiver a night back then


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## mickymost (Aug 11, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> I was at Ratagan car park no honesty box or any means of leaving a donation in place. I am confused by their message. The campsites are mainly full, many are closed, so I don’t see what their problem is. Quite frankly this stinks to high hilt. These car parks are well used by cars during the day then empty of cars at night. At Ratagan most turned up at around 8pm and left early next morning. When we left the carpark was empty. All the campsites up there were either closed or had signs saying they were full. Why they are doing this is beyond me.




Exactly Bill

whats the point of starting a trial then stopping it after only a couple of weeks.Which Councillor with his fingers in the pies of which campsites has stuck his Oar In?


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## colinm (Aug 11, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> All the campsites up there were either closed or had signs saying they were full. Why they are doing this is beyond me.



I would guess that the campsites might not worry too much at the moment, but come end of August the bookings will be falling off, so that is why. A short term measure in the high season when the sites are full.


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## Fisherman (Aug 11, 2020)

colinmd said:


> I would guess that the campsites might not worry too much at the moment, but come end of August the bookings will be falling off, so that is why. A short term measure in the high season when the sites are full.


 
Most campsites in Scotland are only open in the high season, and closed 6 months of the year. It makes a mockery of the argument about using campsites. When they are open they are mainly full particularly at weekends. As for spontaneity forget it.


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## witzend (Aug 11, 2020)

number14 said:


> "If you have any questions or comments about the survey or the trial, please email campervantrial@forestryandland.gov.scot"



Well can't hurt to send one


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## number14 (Aug 12, 2020)

number14 said:


> This is on the forestry survey page.
> 
> "If you have any questions or comments about the survey or the trial, please email campervantrial@forestryandland.gov.scot"
> 
> ...



Email now sent.

Interestingly, whilst the Stay the Night web page still exists, there is no direct link to it from the home page. AFAICS anyway


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## mickymost (Aug 12, 2020)

Just put together and sent my email with my thoughts wonder If Ill get a reply?


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## mjvw (Aug 12, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Just put together and sent my email with my thoughts wonder If Ill get a reply?


Sent mine two days ago and got a reply, fairly generic they would consider my comments when doing a review of the scheme. I presented the email in a very positive and supportive manner.


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## number14 (Aug 12, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Just put together and sent my email with my thoughts wonder If Ill get a reply?


I hope they have been deluged, so perhaps not for the right reasons.


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## molly 2 (Aug 12, 2020)

The mighty power of the camp site owners .rule ok


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## jann (Aug 12, 2020)

Great pity, we were looking forward to going next month


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## mikeg40 (Aug 12, 2020)

can't see how the big campsite groups see this as competition as it's for one night which most don't allow. hope they trial it again next year but already the battle lines are being drawn for some of the suggestions made by local councils and other groups. sad to see self interest is so prevalent


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## number14 (Aug 12, 2020)

A calm and lucid assessment:-


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## antiquesam (Aug 12, 2020)

I've just had two nights wilding, but it's so hot and I saw a C&CC temporary site listed a few miles down the road and booked it for a couple of nights so that the awning can come out and the chair. Looking along the Dorset coast I think every farmer with a field has opened it as a campsite even if it is at 45 degrees off level.


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## 2cv (Aug 12, 2020)

number14 said:


> A calm and lucid assessment:-



Very well put. I too would love to know who the commercial interests who complained are in order to be able to avoid ever using their offering. I wonder if a freedom of information request would elicit the answer.


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## number14 (Aug 14, 2020)

I have received a reply to my email. The body text is below.
Firstly, respect to them for actually replying and quickly - SWMBO also received a reply to her email. As to the content, some is positive but, it seems to me, they were heavily pressured.

"Thank you for your email and your support for the concept behind the trail and we do understand your disappointment.

You make some good and interesting points, which are very much appreciated and understood, and your comments will be added to our discussions at the end of the trial. As you suggest we have and will be looking at the Aires and other European models to see if there is anything we can learn for the future.

Our trial has been met with a very good response. It has proved to be popular and has helped relieve visitor pressures in key locations during the busy holiday season as campsites and caravan grounds have emerged from lockdown and restarted their businesses.

However, as a tourism partner with a vested interest in the return of the sector to full health, we do not want to forestall the gradual recovery of those related businesses and therefore will halt the trial at the end of August.

The good news is we have already learned a great deal and hope to reintroduce a trial next season to allow us to further test and evaluate options for overnight parking.

We do apologise for any disappointment that this might cause but hope that you will understand that this will help to strengthen the sector for the long-term benefit of everyone.

Thanks for taking the time to email us your thoughts.

Best wishes,

*Motorhome and Campervan Trial Team"*


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## mickymost (Aug 14, 2020)

This is EXACTLY the same reply I received yesterday.Obviously a standard reply letter not personalised to each person emailing them SO is anyone there actually taking our points on board.I dont think so!


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## Deleted member 34243 (Aug 14, 2020)

Bossangel said:


> I can remember this site 27 years ago when it was just a tap in the field and sheep bouncing off the tent in the middle of the night, it was a fiver a night back then



and the customer service second to none


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## jann (Aug 14, 2020)

mickymost said:


> This is EXACTLY the same reply I received yesterday.Obviously a standard reply letter not personalised to each person emailing them SO is anyone there actually taking our points on board.I dont think so!


The email I received didn't mention the bit about tourism


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## mickymost (Aug 14, 2020)

My letter 

Dear Michael,



Thank you for your email and your support for the concept behind the trail and we do understand your disappointment.



You make some good and interesting points, which are very much appreciated and understood, and your comments will be added to our discussions at the end of the trial. As you suggest we have and will be looking at the Aires and other European models to see if there is anything we can learn for the future.



Our trial has been met with a very good response. It has proved to be popular and has helped relieve visitor pressures in key locations during the busy holiday season as campsites and caravan grounds have emerged from lockdown and restarted their businesses.



However, as a tourism partner with a vested interest in the return of the sector to full health, we do not want to forestall the gradual recovery of those related businesses and therefore will halt the trial at the end of August.



The good news is we have already learned a great deal and hope to reintroduce a trial next season to allow us to further test and evaluate options for overnight parking.



We do apologise for any disappointment that this might cause but hope that you will understand that this will help to strengthen the sector for the long-term benefit of everyone.



Thanks for taking the time to email us your thoughts.



Best wishes,


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## number14 (Aug 14, 2020)

My reply included a reference to the email that my wife had also sent, including her name. I deleted that line on here for reasons of privacy. So, yes, largely a standard response but, at least the personalising means the replies are not generated by a 'bot'. 
We can take a 'glass half full' or a 'glass half empty' stance on this issue. For the moment I'm being generous and going 'glass half full'.


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## mickymost (Aug 14, 2020)

number14 said:


> My reply included a reference to the email that my wife had also sent, including her name. I deleted that line on here for reasons of privacy. So, yes, largely a standard response but, at least the personalising means the replies are not generated by a 'bot'.
> We can take a 'glass half full' or a 'glass half empty' stance on this issue. For the moment I'm being generous and going 'glass half full'.




But it seems they are not personalised its a standard bot sent out reply.


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## Biggarmac (Aug 14, 2020)

Well all our letters have brought about a change of mind.  Its not finishing at the end of August.


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## landoboguy (Aug 14, 2020)

After careful consideration of these representations - and those from a small number of businesses - we have now decided to continue with the trial until later in 2020.

We will make some adjustments going forwards, in response to what we have learnt to date, and will continue to assess the need for a longer trial in 2021.


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## hotrats (Aug 14, 2020)

4 hour old video  Cameron Mcnish has stated on utube the trial is to continue now and well into next year.


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## colinm (Aug 14, 2020)

Hopefully next year we shall be fully 'back on the road', and can visit a few of those stops.


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## mickymost (Aug 15, 2020)

Goes to show the power of Wild Camping and the determination of its members.They have actually seen sense and extended the trial.Not everyone is against the Motorhome and Campervan owner even though it started to seem like that.
Thank you Forestry & Land .Gov.Scotland for changing your mind and extending the trial.We all appreciate this.


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## Debroos (Aug 15, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Goes to show the power of Wild Camping and the determination of its members.They have actually seen sense and extended the trial.Not everyone is against the Motorhome and Campervan owner even though it started to seem like that.
> Thank you Forestry & Land .Gov.Scotland for changing your mind and extending the trial.We all appreciate this.



Just emailed them to say thank you.


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## Fisherman (Aug 15, 2020)

First let me thank you for allowing us to park up in some of your carparks until the end of the year.

I have nothing against a scheme were an annual payment could be made and window stickers provided validating our right to park in the listed carparks. Even better if this scheme was extended to all or even more carparks throughout the country. Motorhomes are becoming more and more popular each year, and the needs of those owners currently are not being met by local authorities, who in some cases regard us as a problem to be dealt with, rather than an opportunity to improve local economies.

Also your carparks lay empty every night and some are used by people for undesirable pursuits. Motorhomes will both act as a deterrent and a means of reporting such undesirable, and at times destructive behaviour.

The vast majority of us are older people who have worked all of our adult lives. Nearly all of us are members of either the Caravan and Motorhome club, or the caravan and camping club, or as in my case both. We use independent sites also and in doing so contribute towards these organisations. But we love the independence that freedom camping offers, sometimes in places where that is the only option.

I sincerely hope that you extend this scheme and make it permanent in future.

Many thanks


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## jann (Aug 15, 2020)

This is good news, will email to thank them


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## number14 (Aug 15, 2020)

Thank you sent. Aiming to visit in the autumn.


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## mickymost (Aug 15, 2020)

Debroos said:


> Just emailed them to say thank you.




Great idea ill do that


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## mickymost (Aug 15, 2020)

Thank you email now sent


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## mickymost (Aug 15, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> First let me thank you for allowing us to park up in some of your carparks until the end of the year.
> 
> I have nothing against a scheme were an annual payment could be made and window stickers provided validating our right to park in the listed carparks. Even better if this scheme was extended to all or even more carparks throughout the country. Motorhomes are becoming more and more popular each year, and the needs of those owners currently are not being met by local authorities, who in some cases regard us as a problem to be dealt with, rather than an opportunity to improve local economies.
> 
> ...





Bill
great email reply there including the points you made about the car parks sat empty and undesirables doing what undesirables do.It makes sense to have us stopover to stamp out this behaviour and not just on a trial but long term.And your idea for an annual payment with a window sticker badge could work.(At a reasonable cost of course)At least we would know we could legally be there with no one knocking the door in the early hours of the morning telling us to move on.


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## Fisherman (Aug 15, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Bill
> great email reply there including the points you made about the car parks sat empty and undesirables doing what undesirables do.It makes sense to have us stopover to stamp out this behaviour and not just on a trial but long term.And your idea for an annual payment with a window sticker badge could work.(At a reasonable cost of course)At least we would know we could legally be there with no one knocking the door in the early hours of the morning telling us to move on.



They themselves are thinking this way, and I think it makes sense.
Misbehave and you don’t get a sticker.
No sticker no car parking.
Quite frankly I reckon that’s what required nationally, a scheme which validates the vast majority of us, and sorts out the wheat from the chaff.
I would have thought £10-20 a year would be reasonable for the forestry car parks.


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## brian c (Aug 15, 2020)

Hi. If I was setting the fees for the night time stopping over. I would give it up and cancel it if I was offered £10 to £15 a  year.   I would think the average Moho owner spends approx 30 days/ nights in there Moho a year some a lot more       So 30 nights at £5 a night £150 a year at least.  For the yearly sticker.       Unfortunately I can see if this happened that these forums would be full of complaints about mohos parking full night time In these parks.  A lot of Moho owners who do for example the  scottish 500 route  would use these parks  and it would end up like Leysdown 15 plus a night parked there( the most I saw there was 32 bumper to bumper no room for cars). .  Also not all Moho owners belong to other clubs.  My first Moho 1978.  So 42 years with a Moho and these three forums are the only ‘club’ I belong to.       Hey Phillip start a fourth forum. Only Nice things aloud. No moans or complaints only happy people comments allowed.     Ok said my bit    Apart from LlIGHTEN UP


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## Nabsim (Aug 15, 2020)

hotrats said:


> 4 hour old video  Cameron Mcnish has stated on utube the trial is to continue now and well into next year.


Here is the video


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## Fisherman (Aug 15, 2020)

brian c said:


> Hi. If I was setting the fees for the night time stopping over. I would give it up and cancel it if I was offered £10 to £15 a  year.   I would think the average Moho owner spends approx 30 days/ nights in there Moho a year some a lot more       So 30 nights at £5 a night £150 a year at least.  For the yearly sticker.       Unfortunately I can see if this happened that these forums would be full of complaints about mohos parking full night time In these parks.  A lot of Moho owners who do for example the  scottish 500 route  would use these parks  and it would end up like Leysdown 15 plus a night parked there( the most I saw there was 32 bumper to bumper no room for cars). .  Also not all Moho owners belong to other clubs.  My first Moho 1978.  So 42 years with a Moho and these three forums are the only ‘club’ I belong to.       Hey Phillip start a fourth forum. Only Nice things aloud. No moans or complaints only happy people comments allowed.     Ok said my bit    Apart from LlIGHTEN UP



Who said anything about fees, not me nor the forestry commission of Scotland.
The annual fee would be set up to cover the cost of administration of the scheme.
The commission are a non profit making publicly funded organisation.
The commission are more concerned about the proper use of the carparks at night when we would be using them. Any current or future car parking charges would remain and would be paid by us as they are today. The sticker would merely validate us giving us the right to spend the night on otherwise empty carparks.


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## brian c (Aug 15, 2020)

Sorry must of misread  no 54. Yearly £10/£15 a year.  Ooh well specsavers tomorrow or maybe reread it.


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## brian c (Aug 15, 2020)

Was me it says £10/£20 car park not £10/£15


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## Fisherman (Aug 15, 2020)

brian c said:


> Was me it says £10/£20 car park not £10/£15



Yes but not for parking. The sticker would be a validity scheme designed to root out those who don’t behave properly in their car parks. Any other standing parking charges would still apply. There are some forestry car parks up here that already charge for parking, these charges would still apply.


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## Alun100 (Aug 16, 2020)

witzend said:


> Well can't hurt to send one


Well I have just emailed congratulating them on coming up with this idea and to ignore pressure from the campsites etc. Maybe if we all do this and explain why it will help to keep them available


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## Texastom (Aug 17, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> The trial has been cut short no doubt pressure from campsite owners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's been started again..


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## normanandsue (Aug 17, 2020)

I have just received a brilliant email from them thanking me for my comments and advising me they are continuing the trial. First time ever I have  received a  response  to  an email in this type of situation


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## Biggarmac (Aug 17, 2020)

normanandsue said:


> I have just received a brilliant email from them thanking me for my comments and advising me they are continuing the trial. First time ever I have  received a  response  to  an email in this type of situation


Same here.  It just shows that polite messages get results.  It would be interesting to know how many messages they received.


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