# CR Rame Head (Devon)



## GeoffL (Sep 23, 2020)

I visited this POI recently and noted that the Council have set up a pay-n-display machine and camping is now banned with an apparent fine up to £70 for transgression. I reported this last week but the entry still says "Location reported (under review)". I've attached a photo of the relevant bit of signage for whoever's now doing POI admin's convenience.
BTW, Rame Head is in Cornwall, not Devon! HTH, Geoff


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## jagmanx (Sep 24, 2020)

Interesting that the sign 
1 Yes prohibits camping thus by implication overnighting (and only daytime parking)
2 Yes prohibits Caravans
3 does that include Motorcaravans ie could you stay there in the day and pay for 2 tickes if you take up 2 bays !
4 Could you enter at 5 mins past midnight and leave before 8am and park for free ?

In "everday english" caravan is a towable item  and we drive motorhomes (But dVLA = Motor Caravans)
Panel Van conversions are probably OK during the day ? Especially sself-converted that are classed as vans with windows ? Thus commercial ?
Probably best avoided..as it all Cornwall !

Classic lack of precision which coudld have been avoided by simply by adding motorcaravans/motorhomes to what looks like a very new sign.


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## Fisherman (Sep 24, 2020)

The problem with kind of sign is how do you define camping.
To me camping involves a tent.
There are signs stating no cooking or sleeping.
Now what if you go for fish and chips, or take a salad meal, and watch the tv all night. But bottom line now if I feel I am not welcome I don’t stay. But signage like this and elsewhere only goes to highlight the ignorance out there about us, and proper signage which is legally enforceable.


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## 2cv (Sep 24, 2020)

What chance does a layman have to understand if his actions are permitted or not when the sign refers to the TMA 2004?


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## mickymost (Sep 24, 2020)

TMA 2004 Traffic Management Act 2004


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## Debroos (Sep 24, 2020)

I posted about this some time ago and believe it was removed from the poi's.
There are no bays so no worries about space.
It's a great shame. We live nearby and used to overnight there as did others.

The local village and nature reserve have sprouted height barriers too for no reason that I can figure out. The village one is really daft as all the van users that work in the boat yard and other businesses now have to park in the narrow streets and block the bus!


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## GeoffL (Sep 24, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> Interesting that the sign
> 1 Yes prohibits camping thus by implication overnighting (and only daytime parking)
> 2 Yes prohibits Caravans
> 3 does that include Motorcaravans ie could you stay there in the day and pay for 2 tickes if you take up 2 bays !
> ...


The sign is less than 12 months old. However, it not only prohibits caravans, it also prohibits commercial vehicles, lorries and trailers. So self-built 'vans with windows' are prohibited. I suspect that if you go into the bylaw or TRO that created the prohibition, somewhere in the chain will be something that defines a 'caravan' to be a 'vehicle, whether or not motorised, constructed or adapted for habitation'. That said, there were four obvious PVCs parked there when I last visited!

The most annoying thing is that this car park is huge and even a dozen motorhomes overnighting are not going to cause any issues. Like @Debroos, Jan and I are local and, before the lurgy struck, we used drive out there in a panel van adapted as an office and set up for a few hours of stargazing/astrophotography. Even in the depths of winter, we regularly shared the car park with motorhomers, who either kept to themselves or showed friendly interest in what we were doing and so were never an issue.

Now, AFAICT, this car park is part of the Mount Edgecumbe estate, which I understand is jointly run by Cornwall County and Plymouth City councils. However, I thought that neither council had direct control and that everything was done via a joint committee -- which brings CCC's prohibition into question. That said, I thought it only fair to warn people of the changes.


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## jagmanx (Sep 24, 2020)

Thankyou
Yes a complicated situation.
As you suggest there should not be a problem..but there is.
Good to warn others


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## Debroos (Sep 25, 2020)

GeoffL said:


> The sign is less than 12 months old. However, it not only prohibits caravans, it also prohibits commercial vehicles, lorries and trailers. So self-built 'vans with windows' are prohibited. I suspect that if you go into the bylaw or TRO that created the prohibition, somewhere in the chain will be something that defines a 'caravan' to be a 'vehicle, whether or not motorised, constructed or adapted for habitation'. That said, there were four obvious PVCs parked there when I last visited!
> 
> The most annoying thing is that this car park is huge and even a dozen motorhomes overnighting are not going to cause any issues. Like @Debroos, Jan and I are local and, before the lurgy struck, we used drive out there in a panel van adapted as an office and set up for a few hours of stargazing/astrophotography. Even in the depths of winter, we regularly shared the car park with motorhomers, who either kept to themselves or showed friendly interest in what we were doing and so were never an issue.
> 
> Now, AFAICT, this car park is part of the Mount Edgecumbe estate, which I understand is jointly run by Cornwall County and Plymouth City councils. However, I thought that neither council had direct control and that everything was done via a joint committee -- which brings CCC's prohibition into question. That said, I thought it only fair to warn people of the changes.



What a shame about your stargazing....
I suspect that what happened was that as Edgcumbe Park has lost loads of funding from both councils they are really struggling to carry on. I know they asked the NT if they would take it on but they said no.
In one of their efforts to raise cash I think they simply decided to ask for a small fee and asked ccc to organise it for them. ccc then applied their usual heavy handed approach hence us getting banned from overnighting.

I'm pretty sure that it is the park rangers who monitor it and I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't turn a blind eye to overnighting. However I don't feel confident enough to test it out.


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