# AL-KO Rear Suspension Torsion Bar FAILED



## Ed on Toast (May 22, 2017)

Well, Well

It would seem that my rear suspension torsion bar has failed. 

Anyone had this happen and or know the best route to rectification?

All advice most welcome.  I heard some places will recondition it for you, anyone know about this? recommend?


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## Robmac (May 22, 2017)

Might be worth a look here Ed;

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...ase-/8511-alko-torsion-bar-expert-needed.html

I must admit, I haven't read it all through, but you may get some information.


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## Lee (May 22, 2017)

It may be worth PMing Tom (stonedaddy) i think he changed one last year.
I hope you sort it out easily.


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## helmit (May 22, 2017)

Ed on Toast said:


> Well, Well
> 
> It would seem that my rear suspension torsion bar has failed.
> 
> ...



Have a word with Tom (stonedaddy) he had the same thing happen to his Burstner and he is in your area


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## oppy (May 22, 2017)

Ed on Toast said:


> Well, Well
> 
> It would seem that my rear suspension torsion bar has failed.
> 
> ...



I take back my offer, I don't want to swap anymore :dance::dance::dance:


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## Freebird (May 22, 2017)

Try fraserbrown engineering co.uk 
They specialised in alko they did mine great service


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## antiqueman (May 24, 2017)

Ed on Toast said:


> Well, Well
> 
> It would seem that my rear suspension torsion bar has failed.
> 
> ...



See if this helps, pm me if you need a chat.

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...ki-640-alko-torsion-back-axle.html?highlight=


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## Debs (May 24, 2017)

This happened to a friends van on the way to Spain, so they had it replaced with a new one, but don't know the details of how.


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## myshell (May 24, 2017)

Fraser Brown Engineering Ltd. Chapelhill Church, Nigg, Ross-Shire, IV20 1XJ. Tel; 01862 851600
E-Mail enquiries@fraserbrowneng.co.uk


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## Ed on Toast (Jun 3, 2017)

Well, a bit of internet access so time for an update on the Al-Ko

I took things easy, took a deep breath and took me and the camper up to Nigg, in the Highlands of Scotland to (thanks everyone) Fraser Brown Engineering.

They lifted the back end, dropped off the axle and opened it up to expose the torsion bars.

To say they had failed was an understatement, but why?

Quite simply because Al-Ko have put the grease nipples in the wrong place and so grease does not find its way to the inner surface of the bearings, where it is needed. 

I was 'umming' and 'arrring' about getting the chassis fully reconditioned or just buying a second hand one and putting that on. So, so glad i opted for the fully reconditioned path.

I am taking loads of pictures, but alas the internet in the Highlands is not the fastest, so they might need to follow.

I arrived Thursday and should be off on the road again by Tuesday morning but in that time the axle has been removed and is now in the process of total reconditioning.





Fraser and Sue, his wife, together with Jim and Dougal, from the workshop and Tim (drafted in to help) have all been and continue to be fantastic. It is now Saturday evening and we are more than half way through, finishing off Monday. 

There work is to the very highest standards, while it is being done, I am jacked up on blocks at the front of the workshop, as Fraser and Sue's guest, no charge and with EHU.

Some work, such as the cleaning off of the main axle is out sourced to a local company, so Fraser took me along, so I can see the whole process. I am also able to walk about the workshop, following each part and taking as many pictures as I like. 

Fraser has axles couriered here from all over the UK and so he takes pictures, so the customer can see the state of things before, during and after reconditioning.

If this was not enough and trust me with this fantastic scenic view, it should be but Fraser and Sue insist on me taking supper with them each evening and tonight, for example, he is smoking (his home smoker, a hobby) some cheese, so I can sample it, with a glass or  two of port (well i supplied the port, lol)

To think I may have opted for a second hand Al-Ko axle from a scrappers, which could, of course been equally damaged, as it only really shows under load ! ! !  or it could have failed tomorrow ! ! !

But thanks to great advice from my Wild Camping community, I opted for a trip to Fraser Brown Engineering, where I am confident of the highest standards of workmanship and customer service. 

Fraser pointed out that the original grease nipples are actually inaccessible with the fresh water and waste water tanks fitted, so his team will remote them to an accessible point.

I am now confident that a Fraser Brown Engineering reconditioned axle will last longer than the original!

*"Never in the field of campervaning, has a breakdown been such a thoroughly enjoyable experience"​*​Winston the Wanderer 19:45


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## The laird (Jun 3, 2017)

Ed on Toast said:


> Well, a bit of internet access so time for an update on the Al-Ko
> 
> I took things easy, took a deep breath and took me and the camper up to Nigg, in the Highlands of Scotland to (thanks everyone) Fraser Brown Engineering.
> 
> ...





How very refreshing that someone actually posts gratitude of work being or has been getting carried out .looking  forward to final update ,good on all them up there .


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## barryd (Jun 3, 2017)

Robmac said:


> Might be worth a look here Ed;
> 
> https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...ase-/8511-alko-torsion-bar-expert-needed.html
> 
> I must admit, I haven't read it all through, but you may get some information.



I had to have an entire new axle.  Cost over £2.5k I think.  I was under the impression though that the newer ones like I now have have individual bars in them that can be replaced unlike my old one but I Cant remember.  I drove mine around for ages with it knackered though, all the way back from the south of France and then all round Devon and Cornwall.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jun 3, 2017)

Thanks for the update Ed,some useful information there.Quite surprising that the grease nipples for the axle are inaccessible when the water tanks are fitted,what a poor design.Little wonder it has failed with no lubrication for such a long time,I have mine greased every year at service time as recommended by alko.


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## Fazerloz (Jun 3, 2017)

wakk44 said:


> Thanks for the update Ed,some useful information there.Quite surprising that the grease nipples for the axle are inaccessible when the water tanks are fitted,what a poor design.Little wonder it has failed with no lubrication for such a long time,I have mine greased every year at service time as recommended by alko.





 Quite simply because Al-Ko have put the grease nipples in the wrong place and so grease does not find its way to the inner surface of the bearings, where it is needed. 


If yours is the same it doesn't matter how much grease is pumped in if it doesn't get to where it is needed. Maybe you should check.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jun 3, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> Quite simply because Al-Ko have put the grease nipples in the wrong place and so grease does not find its way to the inner surface of the bearings, where it is needed.
> 
> 
> If yours is the same it doesn't matter how much grease is pumped in if it doesn't get to where it is needed. Maybe you should check.



I'm not sure about this,initially Ed said that the cause of failure was due to Al-Ko putting the grease nipples in the wrong place and so the bearing wasn't being greased properly,if at all.He then goes on to say that the positioning of the water tanks by the converter made the grease nipples impossible to access.It's not clear whether the design fault by Al-Ko with incorrect grease nipple positioning or the converters daft positioning of the water tanks thereby making them impossible to reach and so lack of lubrication is the cause of the axle failure.

Al-Ko recommend greasing the axle once a year with the load taking off the axle i.e. with the axle hanging from the chassis and both wheels off the floor.


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## Ed on Toast (Jun 4, 2017)

I think it is a little bit of both, Steve.

Al-Ko put the nipples in the wrong place to get the grease to the correct place internally and then Weinsberg totally masked the nipples behind the fresh and grey water tanks. 

Fraser Brown Engineering remove the original nipples and re position new ones (remove 2 replace with 4, btw. One for the centre of each of the four bearings. They then machine a groove in the centre of the bearing to allow the grease into the correct place and finally remote the nipples to an accessible point on the camper.


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## oldish hippy (Jun 4, 2017)

just have to set up reminder to to the greasing now wellweird was only  thinking yesterday morning that we had not heard from you and was hopefully thinking that your van wasbeing sorted good news it is


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## winks (Jun 4, 2017)

oldish hippy said:


> just have to set up reminder to to the greasing now wellweird was only  thinking yesterday morning that we had not heard from you and was hopefully thinking that your van wasbeing sorted good news it is



Indeed. Going now am I. Coat I will get.

Cheers:cheers:

Yoda


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## st3v3 (Jun 4, 2017)

The repairer sound great, glad to hear you'll be sorted soon.

Cheers.


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## antiqueman (Jun 7, 2017)

*different than mine*

Ah I now see that your torsion bars are totally different than the ones I changed on my shed, so my info was of no use to you but who knows someone else may find it useful. May I ask the year of your Motorhome?


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## Wooie1958 (Jun 7, 2017)

Ed on Toast's profile shows a 1997 Weinsberg Komet.


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## antiqueman (Jun 8, 2017)

Wooie1958 said:


> Ed on Toast's profile shows a 1997 Weinsberg Komet.



Now why did I not think of that Doh


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## Ed on Toast (Jun 15, 2017)

Well a little update seems in order.

I left the fantastic Fraser Brown Engineering, rear axle completely refurbished and re fitted.

I cannot thanks Fraser, Dougal, Jim and Tim enough for not only work of the highest quality (remember you can also have them arrange an overnight courier, for your axle  if you even in Cornwall or beyond)

I can't post every detail on open forum, as i am sure some of the very clever, technical things might be stolen by others in a vain attempt to copy the skills and expertise they have developed in a lifetime of REAL engineering. I was, however allowed to follow my axle through every single stage, so if you have an Alko axle of generally around this age, they are the people to advise and guide you and obviously ask me anything.

Also, a special thankyou to Fraser and Sue for insisting on making me a most welcomd guest in their home, during my stay. 

So, fully suspended, relaxed and refreshed I set off Coast to Coast, to Inverewe Gardens (2days) up to Ullapool (2 more days) and up again to Durness (yes, 2 more days) now i have just wild camped at Duncansby Headhouse (one of the most amazing wild camping spots i have ever overnighted at)

So i have put my new fully reconditioned axle through its paces on some winding and undulating terrain and, i must say it feels like a new camper. 

I now even have accessible nipples and not only that, my nipples that hit the spot!

Right, having said that, a spot of breakfast and a mooch down to Wick, seems like a plan.

See you all soon

Ed


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## harrow (Jun 15, 2017)

Ed on Toast said:


> Well a little update seems in order.
> 
> I left the fantastic Fraser Brown Engineering, rear axle completely refurbished and re fitted.
> 
> ...



Its nice to hear your good news, and that there are still engineering shops that do such a good job.

:dance::dance::dance:


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## Canalsman (Sep 11, 2018)

Resurrecting this thread unfortunately ...

I have had a torsion bar break - I heard it go whilst reversing but I didn't realise what had happened.

Since then there have been a few loud cracks from the nearside rear, and following discussions with my mechanic who looks after the 'van and Jim at Fraser Brown, the diagnosis has been confirmed by measuring the ride height.

The nearside rear has dropped about 25mm, slightly more than the 15-20mm that Jim suggested might be the case.

So my mechanic is going to remove the axle and it will be despatched to Fraser Brown for refurb. I am going to opt for the remote greasing option so I can grease at the suggested 1,000 mile intervals without crawling under the 'van.

Given that I now full-time it's going to be odd staying in the 'van for around 10 days in the garage yard!

It's worth noting that Fraser Brown no longer offer the option of taking your vehicle to them. They don't have sufficient space.

Very impressed by how helpful they are. There's an interesting video about the refurb process here:

AL-KO Axle Repair and reconditioning


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## Deleted member 68397 (Sep 12, 2018)

*Now that sounds like a solid recommendation...*

I would certainly put Fraser Brown's services up there at the top of the list when we need anything similar done.
Sounds like you found a winner there.
Thanks for sharing too.
Slainte, Growlie69


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## Ed on Toast (Sep 15, 2018)

More than a year since i had my work done by Fraser Brown Engineering and it is still faultless.

I could not recommend the team there any higher, 10 out of 10 in all areas.

Ed


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## Canalsman (Sep 15, 2018)

I've had a few conversations with Jim and he has been most helpful and clearly very knowledgeable.

My axle is being removed on 1st October and shipped north. I'll update this thread in due course.


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## antiqueman (Sep 16, 2018)

*round torsion bars*

I see they also sell the round torsion bars like I replaced on my shed, handy to know as alko will not sell to the public anymore. public being lots of people with broken alko bits on their motorhomes.:mad1:


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## Fazerloz (Sep 16, 2018)

With the state of the roads and all the speed humps it no wonder suspensions fail.


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## Byronic (Sep 16, 2018)

That and motorhomes run at maximum weight or over, combined 
with a bit of poor design.


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## malagaoth (Sep 16, 2018)

> With the state of the roads and all the speed humps it no wonder suspensions fail.



whilst no doubt true of suspension systems in general (my wife has has replace front spring 3 times on her polo) the problem with ALKO is that they need wheels off the ground greasing every 12 months  and these days most people dont even own a grease gun  let alone know how to use one!

lifting a three ton (or more) motorhome wheels off the ground and crawling under to grease it is more than can reasonably be expected of the average owner (and who would trust a 'service center'?)


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## Canalsman (Sep 16, 2018)

According to Fraser Brown, and given their experience there's no reason to doubt them, there's a design problem with Al-Ko axles.

No matter how you grease these axles they will fail because the grease doesn't go where it's needed.

My 'van has been greased with wheels off the ground in the three years I've owned it but may not have been greased in that way before, but that appears to be irrelevant.

Fraser Brown modify the greasing system to ensure that the grease does what it should. They advise greasing every 1,000 miles and the suspension does not require unloading.

A remote greasing system is offered to remove the need to crawl underneath. I am having this fitted.


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## The laird (Sep 17, 2018)

Hope it all goes well Chris ,Fraser brown have a great name / reputation


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## Byronic (Sep 17, 2018)

POI Admin said:


> According to Fraser Brown, and given their experience there's no reason to doubt them, there's a design problem with Al-Ko axles.
> 
> No matter how you grease these axles they will fail because the grease doesn't go where it's needed.
> 
> ...




I note that FB do have an aftermarket solid torsion bar replacement, seems to make much more
sense than a multi leaf spring torsion suspension setup, assumes the aftermarket firm know exactly what their doing of course!  The axial twisting of several flat bars just seems 'unnatural' somehow, the leaves would be constantly rubbing against each other, and how it could it have been expected for grease to migrate the full length between the leaves and to the bushes via one grease nipple per side, seems to be expectation of hope 
over reality. On parabolic and semi elliptic leaf springs, there are usually leaf separating pads or shims,
to prevent wear and rust binding.
Still what do I know, I'm not an Al-Ko design pro engineer.

And the rectification remedy isn't cheap either. Al-Ko should be paying a pro rata rate 
based on a time/usage criteria, even now.


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## malagaoth (Sep 17, 2018)

> They advise greasing every 1,000 miles and the suspension does not require unloading.




which without remote greasing is totally unrealistic - even with its a bit much (who wants to be carrying a grease gun around with them?)


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## Byronic (Sep 17, 2018)

malagaoth said:


> which without remote greasing is totally unrealistic - even with its a bit much (who wants to be carrying a grease gun around with them?)



I do. 
Wait a mo though don't laugh.... yet! But I go away for 4000 miles. I choose to grease the required 7 points on 
my van around 2000 to 3000 miles. Reasoning that 10 minutes spent under the van (no jacking) is 
a worthwhile tradeoff against the hassle of premature replacement of the kingpins (not an easy job).


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## malagaoth (Sep 17, 2018)

whilst I admit that I am not the greatest 'hands on' vehicle owner I cant remember the last time I used a grease gun - it was probably 10 years ago when I was still trailering a boat and had to grease the bearings before and after every trip


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## maingate (Sep 17, 2018)

Some AlKo axles don't need greasing ... and they don't have brass bushes fitted.


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## Byronic (Sep 17, 2018)

No greasing, Hope they at least last longer than the hit and mostly miss greasey variety! 
Brass bushes? I'd have expected bronze at least, but Al-Ko know best of course!


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## maingate (Sep 17, 2018)

Byronic said:


> No greasing, Hope they at least last longer than the hit and mostly miss greasey variety!
> Brass bushes? I'd have expected bronze at least, but Al-Ko know best of course!




They may well be Bronze but it is surprising how much loading a Brass Bush can take (if it is big enough for the job and lubricated). They do less well under shock loading and I would use neither if I designed an axle. I don't even rate the Needle Roller Bearings in my 2 Alko back axles.


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## Byronic (Sep 17, 2018)

I mention bronze because you've indicated greaseless application,
and bronze of course is self lubricating. Nowt wrong with brass 
where used in the correct applic. though, as we say down sarth 

Can't think of an example of brass used in vehicle axle bearings,
perhaps so in ye very olden days.
But fairly common on small light loaded fan axles, elect. motors
and the like.


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## GWAYGWAY (Sep 17, 2018)

Ed on Toast said:


> Well, Well
> 
> It would seem that my rear suspension torsion bar has failed.
> 
> ...



When I was in Doncaster have my hydraulic legs fitted, I noticed the big pile of  differing  Alco  torsion bars and fitments, which they took off new motorhomes to fit full suspension, I asked about them and they said it was too much bother to list them on ebay or the like.. Maybe if you know the code colours in bands on the  bars, they might have a set to sell you or give you.
I think a phone call might just Peee him off but a  trip there  MIGHT be  favorable if  they were not distracted.  Depends where you are of course and whether the bits are available to order.  The actual torsion bars are in sets according to springiness and fit in a machined groove in sets of however for the weight of the axle four holes and they slide in and secured.


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## Canalsman (Sep 17, 2018)

malagaoth said:


> which without remote greasing is totally unrealistic - even with its a bit much (who wants to be carrying a grease gun around with them?)



Happy to do this ...

I don't see this as a problem at all.


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## Canalsman (Sep 17, 2018)

GWAYGWAY said:


> When I was in Doncaster have my hydraulic legs fitted, I noticed the big pile of  differing  Alco  torsion bars and fitments, which they took off new motorhomes to fit full suspension, I asked about them and they said it was too much bother to list them on ebay or the like.. Maybe if you know the code colours in bands on the  bars, they might have a set to sell you or give you.
> I think a phone call might just Peee him off but a  trip there  MIGHT be  favorable if  they were not distracted.  Depends where you are of course and whether the bits are available to order.  The actual torsion bars are in sets according to springiness and fit in a machined groove in sets of however for the weight of the axle four holes and they slide in and secured.



Ed has long since had his axle overhauled. I trust he won't need to pursue this option!


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## Byronic (Sep 18, 2018)

GWAYGWAY said:


> When I was in Doncaster have my hydraulic legs fitted.



Now capable of flying your light plane Douglas Bader style!


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## QFour (Sep 18, 2018)

Every design looks good on paper but in the real world things are never that simple. On a Swift Habitation Check they don’t crawl underneath and grease the back axle. On a Fiat Service they only do the Fiat part so the greasing of the back axle is left to the owner. There must be any number of vehicles out there that have never seen any grease. I for one didn’t find out about greasing until we had used the MH for a couple of years.

I wonder when they design the axles if they take into consideration that the MH is going to be fully loaded most of its life and with the vast number of people who have never heard of a weigh bridge overloaded.

We have the simple leaf springs on our Laika. Two leaves on each side with a nylon disc between the leaves. When loaded I can still see daylight between the spring and the spring assistor. As for ride it’s not bad. It’s not like a formula 1 racing car and I do go round roundabouts slowly but it all works and is easy to fix as it all comes from the same place Fiat.


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## Ed on Toast (Oct 2, 2018)

In my case (A class Weinsberg Komet) Alko Axle

The grease nipples are not manufactured in the correct place and, in addition, when the fresh and waste water tanks are fitted, they mask those grease nipples, so bad on both counts.

Fraser Brown Engineering, in addition to totally rebuilding the rear axle, also relocate the grease nipples to a more effective place(s) and also will add extensions to a more accessible place, so periodic re-greasing can be carried out much more easily.

AL-KO Axle Repair and reconditioning

This link, to their website has a great video of the process and folk can always email or call the F B Team with any questions.

Enjoy 

:egg:


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## Canalsman (Oct 2, 2018)

My axle was removed yesterday and picked up by TNT today.

All being well it will be returned on Monday and reinstalled Tuesday ...


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## QFour (Oct 3, 2018)

Must be something to do with all these dirt tracks you keep going down looking for places to wild camp :scared: .. Does seem to be a bit of a design problem with these axles. Wonder how many others have just had a new one fitted by their Dealer at great expense.


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## Canalsman (Oct 13, 2018)

An update ...

The axle took longer to return than anticipated. TNT now only offer a two-day service to and from the Highlands, so it returned late on Wednesday afternoon, too late to start reinstalling.

By the end of Thursday the axle was back in place with the remote greasing option fitted on Friday morning.

There was one hiatus. On Monday afternoon a recheck of the shock absorbers proved them to be knackered.

So the hunt was on to find the hard-to-obtain proprietary Al-Ko shocks!

More info on this process can be read here:

ALKO Black Shock Absorbers Torque Setting.

I am now back on the road with refurbed axle, new shocks, new discs and pads ... And a much lighter bank balance to the tune of about £2,500.

Fraser Brown were great to deal with and I recommend them highly to anyone faced with this situation.

Don't underestimate how much work it takes to remove and refit the axle. My excellent local garage billed me for 15 hours labour but say it took 18 hours. I was present whilst the work was done and can confirm that it takes a long time!


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