# Gas - For Continental Use



## KenReay (Oct 19, 2006)

Hi

First I am a complete novice, so please do not assume any knowledge on my part.

We recently bought our first campervan (an "05" reg Compass Avantgarde), so far we have had three trips awy in the Uk, plus a two and a half week jaunt in France, getting as far south as Ceret.

Now to the question. I undertand that Continetal gas bottles, eg Camping Gaz etc use a different regulator to the Calor bottles we get here in the UK. The regulator is attached to the Van and has a hose which comes from the regulator to the bottle. How do we rig it up so that we can attach a "Continental" bottle, in the event that we run out of gas during our planned three month trip to France/Spain and where ever else we may end up?

I have asked this question of several fellow motor homers, but have not received a convincing and understandable answer, with talk of "pigtails" etc being the typical answer.

So can any of you seasoned travellers give a concise answer?

Thanks in advance.

Regards

Ken


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## atchisong (Oct 20, 2006)

*camping gas containers in different countries*

We were aggravated to find that indeed every country has a different bottle/cylinder and different regulator.  Even Calor Ireland does not swap with Calor UK!  CampingGaz [brand name] is the only universal type and costs 2 to 10 times as much, per kg, as 5 or 7 kg bottles of the local gas. Remember you want to swap identical bottles in lieu of actual refill of your existing bottles. There are a few places, unknown to me, that will actually refill a bottle and that is your best bet. 
   One solution is to take two or even three of the biggest local bottles that you can comfortably store, full, depending  and ask at tourism offices for actual refill stations once you have emptied one. We dealt with NL IRL UK types and were advised that e.g France was different still. 
   More convenient but most expensive, go with CampingGAZ  all the way.. two bottles is still a good idea.  Don't forget you can weigh your bottle to see how empty it is.. the Tare and Gross weights should be engraved on it or weigh it when full yourself.  Do the math and save some wastage.


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## David & Ann (Oct 20, 2006)

*Gas Bottles*

I still have the same problem with the gas bottles. As my MH is German, all my attachments including the electrics which I need 3 pin adapters. It is a farce that (UK) or (D) bottles cannot be refilled in Spain, France or Italy.
ATCHISONG's advice is correct. You need to have a couple of extra bottles, I have 3. (13 kg ) Make sure you have enough for how ever long you are away. I know in Spain you can buy the complete attachment of the shelf, but it is a hassle having to change them from Country to Country. In Summer a 13 kg last me 6/7 weeks. In winter 2/3 weeks. Heating your MH takes a lot.
Fitting each Country's regulators and also the pipes and threads will pose a problem. If anyone can advice you or me I would appreciate it


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## Don Madge (Oct 22, 2006)

Have you considered installing a refillable bottle. Initial outlay is high but for peace of mind there very good. IMO for the long term travelling they are a must.

I've had one 13kg refillable for three years now and it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, along with my solar panel and cruise control.

LPG is readily available in most of Europe. We have refilled our bottle in many places in Europe including Turkey. There's no LPG available in Finland and the filling stations in Spain are few and far between but there getting better.

Safe travelling

Don


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## Black dog (Oct 22, 2006)

Is this LPG as in petrol station LPG?  Or do you mean a bottle refillable at a Calor Gas equivalent abroad?

For certain, a gas bottle you could refill at any LPG station would be the ideal for any kind of touring.


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## virgil (Oct 22, 2006)

*Its a gas...*

I have, this last season, thought about getting an onboard tank so I too look forward to the answer to Black Dogs question!


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## Don Madge (Oct 22, 2006)

Black dog said:
			
		

> Is this LPG as in petrol station LPG?  Or do you mean a bottle refillable at a Calor Gas equivalent abroad?
> 
> For certain, a gas bottle you could refill at any LPG station would be the ideal for any kind of touring.



A refillable LPG bottle can be refilled at any petrol station that sells LPG for vehicles.

The are three connectors/adaptors that cover the whole of Europe.

If you are interested the following sites have all the details.

http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pdf/GASLOW_2006_8pp.pdf

http://www.mthautogas.co.uk/

http://www.autogas.co.uk/shop.php?id=1127441639

I hope this helps.

Don


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## Black dog (Oct 23, 2006)

Sounds great - thanks.  So where do I get one of these refillable tanks?  Are they the same as the ones advertised in the caravanning magazines?


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## virgil (Oct 23, 2006)

*Plans are a changing...*

Have looked into this today at Salop Leisure (Shrewsbury) and spoke to Tony and he informed me that the laws governing re-fillable bottles and re-filling them are due to change 2007/08! I cannot recall exactly the reasons for this but it's something to do with licensing of portable gas containers and British Standards! I for one will continue carrying a spare bottle for the forseeable future.


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## Don Madge (Oct 23, 2006)

virgil said:
			
		

> Have looked into this today at Salop Leisure (Shrewsbury) and spoke to Tony and he informed me that the laws governing re-fillable bottles and re-filling them are due to change 2007/08! I cannot recall exactly the reasons for this but it's something to do with licensing of portable gas containers and British Standards! I for one will continue carrying a spare bottle for the forseeable future.



Virgil,

It's a pity you cannot recall exactly the reason as it would have been nice to hear Tony of Salops version.

I'll file that under Urban myth/cock and bull story. There have been rumours (probably started by Calor) doing the rounds that the filling of refillable bottles would be banned on the grounds of health & safety. It never happened.

The Uk motorhome fraternity thrive on rumour and speculation.

I have a external filling point for my bottle so it looks just like a normal LPG tank filler.

Don


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## SNODGRASS (Oct 25, 2006)

WELL SAID Don I have one refillable and one ordinary bottle, also an outside filler, when filling at a busy service station is there likely to be a member of staff hovering on the forecourt watching out for criminal refillers  I don't think so not even in our "nanny state"


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## Frogman (Oct 26, 2006)

It's alleged that Calor have warned garages which they supply that the garage will not be insured if they sell LPG to fill bottles on forecourts. Nonsense, of course, especially if you have a remote filler. I've had a refillable tank for early 20 years, and had few problems until recently  -  and so I fitted a remote filler from Gaslow last year and haven't had a problem since.
Bear in mind that LPG means different things in different countries: in the UK it's 100% propane, so no problem. But as you go south in Europe, the blend with butane changes, to the extent that in Crete it's only 20% propane and 80% butane. It can get cold in Crete in winter, at which your liquid gas stops gassing and your heater goes out! In Italy the mix may be a little richer in propane, but I don't know the proportion. Morocco's fine  -  you get propane from the bottling plant!


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## ian81 (Nov 9, 2006)

I would endore Don's comments re Gaslow and Calor's urban myths. Initial outlay is high but the gas to refill is chepaer than bottle refills. However the greatest benefit is not having to worry about gas on the road and hump heavy bottles. IMHO it is a vital addition.


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## tommyboy (Nov 9, 2006)

*gas refills*

hi, i am very interested in the gas bottle problems and thoughts abroad,we own a autotrail cheyanne and are planning to go down to spain for a couple of months in february, im in the same position, { a learner. } i note with keen interest the comments of , virgil,? who has a adapter. can you let me know where to get one please, ? ive been told about these before but know one seems to know the next step, on cannock chase 1 week i ran out of gas, { propane} a guy very kindly put me on to a garage just out of cannock, ay presto the garage pulled out a adapter, on to my gas bottle, 2 seconds i was full up again, magic. im told i can get filled up in most of europe spain and morroco. so i would be very gratefull virgil, i also have a friend who visits france a lot and has a couple of adapters but for different bottles, i think. thanks tommy


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## Don Madge (Nov 10, 2006)

tommyboy said:
			
		

> hi, i am very interested in the gas bottle problems and thoughts abroad,we own a autotrail cheyanne and are planning to go down to spain for a couple of months in february, im in the same position, { a learner. } i note with keen interest the comments of , virgil,? who has a adapter. can you let me know where to get one please, ? ive been told about these before but know one seems to know the next step, on cannock chase 1 week i ran out of gas, { propane} a guy very kindly put me on to a garage just out of cannock, ay presto the garage pulled out a adapter, on to my gas bottle, 2 seconds i was full up again, magic. im told i can get filled up in most of europe spain and morroco. so i would be very gratefull virgil, i also have a friend who visits france a lot and has a couple of adapters but for different bottles, i think. thanks tommy



Tommy

I take it you have a refillable bottle with the 80% fill stop on it.

If you go to http://www.gaslow.co.uk/pdf/GASLOW_2006_8pp.pdf page 7 you will see the adapters you require.

01-4300 Clawgun adapter for France/Germany/Italy /Portugal/Turkey.

01-4310 Acme adapter for Belgium some parts of the Netherlands.

To fill up in the UK you should have the bayonet adapter, this is also found in some parts of the Netherlands.

LPG is not available in Morocco and the filling stations are few and far between in Spain.

The following sites will give you details of filling stations in Europe

http://tinyurl.com/ykg6qb

http://tinyurl.com/c23ny


I hope this helps.

Don


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## tommyboy (Nov 11, 2006)

*calor gas*

thanks to don and madge for there email on gas bottles abroad. i,ll follow your suggetions through, but im still a bit non the wiser up to yet. what is a refillable bottle? i,ll have to have a look at one, all i know is my van is set up for lpg. i brought my first bottle, with gas from a local supplier. when i ran out of gas over cannock, i was put onto a local garage. the guy took of my bayonet fitting, put a new fitting on then filled it up with gas. i was well impressed. do,s this make my bottle refillable? are the fillers abroad, at gas filling stations, universal? if so then i just need that one fitting? also don mentions morroco as having no gas filling stations. are you sure? if so, and thats the case whats the solution? i know loads of campers from all over head there for the winter sun. i had been working on the hope that being eager to earn a dirrum they would find a solution, somehow.\ thanks tom


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## Don Madge (Nov 11, 2006)

Tommy,

If you take the time to read my previous post you will see I've already answered your questions, or is this a wind up.

We are talking about LPG for domestic use only. If you check the Gaslow site you can see what a refillable bottle looks like.

Don

There is no Madge that's my surname.


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## David & Ann (Nov 11, 2006)

*Gas type and gas bottles*

Hi Don
Reading all the threads I am beginning to doubt if I too have understood you. I fill my 3 removable bottles with Butane gas through a dealer here in Cornwall. He has an adapter, so no problems. Question is, can I simply fill up with calor, LPG or any other gas when the bottle is empty? I think what Tommyboy is trying to figure out is a removable bottle where you fill it when it is empty, or a fixed LPG bottle to the MH, or a LPG tank which is permanently fixed to the MH. Even I am at odds in my mind when someone talks about LPG tanks or removable bottles or fixed bottles. I found under gaslow.co.uk the adapter which fits the connection to my German adapter. Do I just connect the adapter from gaslow to my German connection on my bottle? Boy oh boy, arn't all we MH lads giving you a headache with your knowledge of bottle and tank technolgy. Keep smiling Don.....David


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## Don Madge (Nov 11, 2006)

OK lets get a few points straight, there are LPG (propane) refillable tanks and bottles for domestic use, IE cooking, heating, running the fridge etc in the van.

LPG (propane) Refillable bottles are usually kept in the vans gas bottle locker, they have an 80% stop fill on them, that means they will automatically cut out when the bottle is 80% full. On my van I have an external filling point at waist height on the side of the van. They can also be filled by screwing the correct adapter directly on to the bottle. Gaslow bottles are yellow and the other suppliers are usually red.

LPG (propane) Tanks are usually secured to the vehicle sometimes on the chassis and have an external filling point. They also have an 80% stop fill on them. The tanks are usually red. There are also black tanks, these are for LPG powered vehicles and have a different take off system.

Both tanks and bottles can be refilled at any service/petrol/filling station that sells LPG auto gas as long as you have the correct adapter.  It's almost the same procedure you use for filling your vehicle with diesel or petrol. It can be done in the UK and on the continent.

See http://www.boostlpg.co.uk/driver_industry/Guidance Note - How to refuel with LPG.pdf for filling bottles

See http://www.boostlpg.co.uk/driver_industry/going_abroad.htm for the adapters

Calor or other branded gas bottles, butane (blue) and propane (red) should not be filled except at an approved filling plants.

I have no wish to offend anybody, I assumed, wrongly that you knew what a refillable bottle was.

If you have any further questions I will try and answer them.

Regards

Don


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## boatman (Nov 11, 2006)

*Gas tanks*

I found this website about built in gas tanks. Might be worth a call. Thinking about fitting a tank myself.
http://www.power4motorhomes.co.uk/


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## David & Ann (Nov 11, 2006)

*Gas Bottles*

Hi Don
Ok Buddy, I had a good laugh when I read the first few words of your thread. My second half wondered why. I tried to explain there were a few guys in the club, including myself you had a problem figuring out gas bottles and tanks, and that Don good as gold in trying to explain the difference. And that Don had started his thread with "okay, lets get a few points straight" Remembered me of my school days and my teacher. Serious now, it is clear to me now. Thanks Don. David


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## voxol51 (Nov 29, 2006)

Can I add tuppence worth to Don's explanations.
When your *typical calor bottle* is empty, it has to be taken to a calor depot/outlet where you hand in your empty bottle in exchange for another (full) one.
Many caravan dealers and garages have bottles for exchange in cages.
So for simplicity, lets call them *exchange bottles*.
Pricewise, as an example, you pay £19 to exchange a 15kg bottle.

*A refillable bottle* (such as gaslow's) looks very similar in shape to calor exchange bottles, but has an extra valve on the top so that instead of exchanging it, you can fill it yourself, as Don says, at any garage selling LPG from a pump.
Pricewise you pay per litre at around 40p-46p per litre. Much cheaper than calors exchange prices.

Calor/insurance companies frown upon taking these refillable (gaslow) bottles to the forecourt, removing them from the vehicle, and refilling them stood on the ground.
However, as Don and others have stated, if the bottle remains in the vehicle and you fill it via a fitted external filler, there is no problem.

The 3rd option is a *fitted tank* - attached to the chassis (usually) just like your petrol/diesel tank, and filled via a fitted filler, from any garage with an LPG pump.
Like refillable (gaslow) bottles, gas tanks are fitted with safety valves which prevent you filling them above 80% full.

May I also add that if you are getting calor exchange bottles refilled anywhere other than at a calor gas depot, it is being done illegally. I have a friend that has 'got hold' of the adaptors to fill the calor 'exchange' bottle he uses in his caravan from the large calor tank in his garden that runs the house cooking and central heating - Cheap, convenient, but risky!!

Voxy.


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## voxol51 (Nov 29, 2006)

*Pigtails and other jargon*

In response to Kenreay's original post, pigtail(s) are the 'official' name for the rubber pipe(s) that run from your bottle(s) to the reducer/regulator fixed to the wall of your gas locker.

Gas bottles in different countries have slightly different connections, so you would have to buy 'pigtail(s)' appropriate to fit that countries bottles, as in, the rubber pipe would have to have one end that fits your wall mounted regulator, and the other end would have to be made to fit a certain countries bottles.
So if you visit 6 countries you may well need 6 (or 6 pairs) of different 'pigtails' made up.
It would also mean purchasing (and disposing of) 6 different countries bottles!!

If you intend to do a lot of touring abroad, it would be well worth considering having a fixed gas tank, or gaslow type refillable bottle fitted. This would avoid the need for purchasing different pigtails and different bottles.
You would just stop at any garage selling LPG from a pump, and fill your own tank or bottle(s) just the same as you fill your diesel/petrol tank.

The intial outlay is anything between £150 (gaslow) and £400 (fixed tank) but the convenience, peace of mind, and cheap gas can soon recoop that outlay.

voxy.


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## David & Ann (Nov 29, 2006)

*Gas bottles*

Hi Voxy
Having read Don's and your descriptions, it is absolutely clear re: bottles and connections. It is a pity that being in the EU, after so many years, we do not have a standard fitting across Europe.


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## voxol51 (Dec 1, 2006)

We wish, we wish Dave.
We thought that, being a world wide company, the new lightweight BP bottle might be the answer to our prayers, but it seems that even that is only compatable with the country it was bought in.

Another way to go could be an eberspascher blown air heater because it runs on diesel instead of using precious gas whilst abroad.

Voxy.


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