# Campaign for Real Aires - CAMpRA



## toasty (Jun 25, 2020)

Anyone in this facebook group? A UK site trying to get some aires here. I am pessimistic about achieving the aim but can't fault their enthusiasm, so I've recently joined and thought I would spread the word.


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## jacquigem (Jun 25, 2020)

We have joined to


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## Yelto (Jun 25, 2020)

Me too


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## Makzine (Jun 25, 2020)

Does no harm to try so joined to see how it goes


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## red ted (Jun 25, 2020)

toasty said:


> Anyone in this facebook group? A UK site trying to get some aires here. I am pessimistic about achieving the aim but can't fault their enthusiasm, so I've recently joined and thought I would spread the word.


Just joined too


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## Biggarmac (Jun 26, 2020)

I've been in it since just after it started.  We have given advice to some people who have land, but it all takes time.
This last week there have been an explosion of new members.  I posted about it on a thread on here.  How else did people find out about the group?


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## jacquigem (Jun 26, 2020)

Shared on facebook by a C&CC member we know


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## DnK (Jun 26, 2020)

Joined and invited a few friends to join.


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## Bacup lad (Jun 26, 2020)

toasty said:


> Anyone in this facebook group? A UK site trying to get some aires here. I am pessimistic about achieving the aim but can't fault their enthusiasm, so I've recently joined and thought I would spread the word.


Hi How do i join this group. have you a link please ?
Thanks  john


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## toasty (Jun 26, 2020)

Bacup lad said:


> Hi How do i join this group. have you a link please ?
> Thanks  john


Just look this up on facebook: Campaign for Real Aires - CAMpRA


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## QFour (Jun 26, 2020)

Better send a LINK to Whitby Council. These holiday resorts are going to be crying out for visitors after the summer idiots have gone home. They have nothing to loose by providing parking for an evening and everything to gain but these Councillors have their heads buried in the sand. We used to pay to park in Whitby and always had meals out, fish and chips and a few drinks.


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## RichardHelen262 (Jun 27, 2020)

We always managed to spend plenty in Whitby too whenever we went.
We always used to stop in Pickering too on the way home and usually managed to find a thing or too to buy there too.
And would often visit in the winter months as well as the spring and summer months, until they became anti Motorhome.
But not been for a few years now, and won’t be going again anytime soon if they only want our custom in the winter months


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## barge1914 (Jun 27, 2020)

toasty said:


> Anyone in this facebook group? A UK site trying to get some aires here. I am pessimistic about achieving the aim but can't fault their enthusiasm, so I've recently joined and thought I would spread the word.


Got a link?


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## Fisherman (Jun 27, 2020)

helen262 said:


> We always managed to spend plenty in Whitby too whenever we went.
> We always used to stop in Pickering too on the way home and usually managed to find a thing or too to buy there too.
> And would often visit in the winter months as well as the spring and summer months, until they became anti Motorhome.
> But not been for a few years now, and won’t be going again anytime soon if they only want our custom in the winter months



Helen that’s great that you contributed to the local economy, we to try to do our bit on that front when out in the van.
But I reckon we seriously have to look at this situation.
Its almost from a position of guilt that we do so, we have been made to feel that we are burdens on local economies, and somehow have to justify ourselves as being economically viable. But look at the 500,000 who visited Bournemouth, what did they offer the local economy. Well they created pandemonium blocking roads, making it difficult for local businesses to operate, and emergency services to go about their business. They left several tonnes of litter for local services to clear up, and they probably infected some locals with Covid 19. There were apparently no toilet facilities available so its impossible that human waste was not also an issue.
How many times have I seen car parks full of day trippers who venture no further than the beach, St. Andrews is a prime example. The fact that they are a burden on local communities being ignored. Yet folk love to tell us that we who make up 0.5% of road traffic are no more than a bunch of freeloaders. The fact is we may not spend nearly as much as folk staying in hotels, and B&Bs, but we probably spend more than your average car driver, and we tend to take more interest in were we visit. We have forked out thousands in VAT, Fuel duty, road tax, insurance, and maintenance, we have put billions into the uk economy long before we parked up for the night.


All the best to this FB group, but they have a difficult task on their hands. And no doubt they will find that resistance to their campaign will not only come from outside the wild camping fraternity, but also sadly from within.


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## maureenandtom (Jun 27, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> ... we who make up 0.5% of road traffic are no more than a bunch of freeloaders. ...



Freeloaders?


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## Fisherman (Jun 27, 2020)

runnach said:


> Bill, last we used St Andrews as a forum meet was the last time, because restrictions were put in after this meet. Of course the locals were ignorant to the fact that the local award winning chippie made over £600 which included delivery to those of us who ordered. I know many members visit the pubs and shops. Us personally, had lunch in an Indian restaurant, plus did a local shop before heading home.
> 
> On the Sunday morning while I was walking dog on beach, I got speaking with a local lady out walking her dog, then a lady friend arrived with her dog and they got talking, topic, us campers. I mentioned I was with this group and asked what harm were we doing? One replied “she felt intimidated with our presence”. Utter rubbish I replied and so on.
> 
> Problem with St Andrews is snobbery, uni town and of course, the home of golf. Barriers now in place and the boy racers who cut up the grass are welcome to, I’ll never again spend ten pence in St Andrews.



We took our grandson there on February.

Well this is what happened to us.

We were in a large carpark primarily for golfers, but being February a carpark that would take easily 200 cars had us and about 20 cars in it, mainly dog walkers. Before parking I noted no overnight parking signs on the beach carpark. But this carpark had no signage whatsoever stopping us from parking. As the day turned to night there was just us and two cars left. We were watching a movie at around 8.30 came the knock on the door from a security guard. He started rabbiting on  about a £200 fine if we did not move informing me that there was nowhere in the town for us to park, but strangely telling us to book into a hotel. Well he picked on the wrong guy.

First I asked him to show me where it stated I could not park, and where did it state a penalty of £200. Well this got him wound up and he started to raise his voice. I informed him that our 9 year old grandson was with us, but he kept rabbiting on about us going to a hotel and this mythical £200 fine. I asked him not to raise his voice but he just kept rabbiting on about how we take over the place in summer. I I formed him this is winter and in this massive carpark we are alone. But he just kept on talking in a threatening manner. I went back into my van got my mobile, and told him if he did not leave I was phoning the police. He walked away to his van and buggered off. Still waiting for my £200 fine for “illegal” parking.

But to add insult to injury we had spent over £100 that day. We had visited the sea life centre, went for coffees, and had bought some kitchenware from the local hardware store. Also I don’t know if you are aware but there is a converter in St. Andrews who do van conversions, St. Andrews Motorhomes, and I must have spotted at least 15-20 Motorhomes parked in driveways that day. Perhaps if anyone on here lives there they could add to this. But like you I will never set foot in that place ever again.


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## Fisherman (Jun 27, 2020)

maureenandtom said:


> Freeloaders?



Sadly he would get support on here.

I would love to meet this Pratt for a coffee sometime.
But being a freeloader he would need to pay


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## runnach (Jun 27, 2020)

I have no doubt motorhomes contribute to local economies overall, equally there is a fraternity who delight in spending as little as they can. So what do we spend ? And does it matter?

There have been no studies as far as I am aware that gives a quantifiable figure there has been one or two suggestions over the years but relates to sites not wildcamping.

So when we are writing to councils and the rest of them stating we spend money, have above average disposable incomes they are words that can’t be quantified one way or the other and personally think the wrong tact ....we can come across spend money = self entitlement ? And that can rev people up (it does me)


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## Fisherman (Jun 27, 2020)

channa said:


> I have no doubt motorhomes contribute to local economies overall, equally there is a fraternity who delight in spending as little as they can. So what do we spend ? And does it matter?
> 
> There have been no studies as far as I am aware that gives a quantifiable figure there has been one or two suggestions over the years but relates to sites not wildcamping.
> 
> So when we are writing to councils and the rest of them stating we spend money, have above average disposable incomes they are words that can’t be quantified one way or the other and personally think the wrong tact ....we can come across spend money = self entitlement ? And that can rev people up (it does me)



To me Andrew this is a non issue, and we should avoid getting involved in this rubbish. Take St. Andrews again, in summer thousands of cars park up for the day. They head for the beach in their droves, dump their litter, use the free toilet facilities, then bugger of home. Most of them don‘t even venture into the town. Has anyone accused them of being freeloaders, of setting up campsites and taking over  towns and villages. Are they asked to justify their presence on financial grounds, no and why should they. And this scenario is repeated throughout the UK.  We are not freeloaders, but neither are we some charitable organisation only there to support local economies. We are people who have through work and taxes supported this country, and who now in their latter years wish to explore it. We put billions into this country every year, and in return we get abuse from Pratt’s like ill informed morons like councillor Colin, and treated like vagrants by some who's lack of knowledge about us is staggering. It’s time that we came of the defensive, stopped beating ourselves up about not contributing as much as a hotel customer, and reminded some that we have paid vast fortunes before heading out.


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## Carrerasax (Jun 27, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Helen that’s great that you contributed to the local economy, we to try to do our bit on that front when out in the van.
> But I reckon we seriously have to look at this situation.
> Its almost from a position of guilt that we do so, we have been made to feel that we are burdens on local economies, and somehow have to justify ourselves as being economically viable. But look at the 500,000 who visited Bournemouth, what did they offer the local economy. Well they created pandemonium blocking roads, making it difficult for local businesses to operate, and emergency services to go about their business. They left several tonnes of litter for local services to clear up, and they probably infected some locals with Covid 19. There were apparently no toilet facilities available so its impossible that human waste was not also an issue.
> How many times have I seen car parks full of day trippers who venture no further than the beach, St. Andrews is a prime example. The fact that they are a burden on local communities being ignored. Yet folk love to tell us that we who make up 0.5% of road traffic are no more than a bunch of freeloaders. The fact is we may not spend nearly as much as folk staying in hotels, and B&Bs, but we probably spend more than your average car driver, and we tend to take more interest in were we visit. We have forked out thousands in VAT, Fuel duty, road tax, insurance, and maintenance, we have put billions into the uk economy long before we parked up for the night.
> ...


Just joined too.


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## Biggarmac (Jun 27, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> . It’s time that we came of the defensive, stopped beating ourselves up about not contributing as much as a hotel customer, and reminded some that we have paid vast fortunes before heading out.


The idea of the CAMPra fb page is to do just that.  Put forward a positive reason why motorhome tourists are a "good thing".  We need to use all avenues to get changes of minds.  We are looking at all types of provision.  As on this forum there are all view about what constitutes an "Aire", especially now the page has had a huge influx of new members.  Meg


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## maureenandtom (Jun 27, 2020)

From Fisherman _ "We put billions into this country every year, and in return we get abuse from Pratt’s like ill informed morons like councillor Colin, and treated like vagrants by some who's lack of knowledge about us is staggering. It’s time that we came of the defensive, stopped beating ourselves up about not contributing as much as a hotel customer, and reminded some that we have paid vast fortunes before heading out. "_

There have been surveys carried out to find how valuable an asset we are.   But, so far as I can tell they have always been inother countries and I've not been able to find one for UK.    There might be one from Ireland but I've not yet written to that council to find it.   I will do that.

I've struggled to find, in the last few mins the surveys I've had from overseas but the best I can come up with so far is  the one I attach.  A bit dated and from trhe USA but maybe a useful read?


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## Fisherman (Jun 27, 2020)

maureenandtom said:


> From Fisherman _ "We put billions into this country every year, and in return we get abuse from Pratt’s like ill informed morons like councillor Colin, and treated like vagrants by some who's lack of knowledge about us is staggering. It’s time that we came of the defensive, stopped beating ourselves up about not contributing as much as a hotel customer, and reminded some that we have paid vast fortunes before heading out. "_
> 
> There have been surveys carried out to find how valuable an asset we are.   But, so far as I can tell they have always been inother countries and I've not been able to find one for UK.    There might be one from Ireland but I've not yet written to that council to find it.   I will do that.
> 
> ...



The CCC had one carried one out last year, for the whole industry including caravans, all types of motorhomes, campsites, taxes, employment off over 100,000 and they came up with £9.3 billion. 





						Campsite spending - The Camping and Caravanning Club
					

The first-ever UK-wide holiday park and campsite sector economic report. This is the first time campsites have been analysed to show the economic value of the sector.




					www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk


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## Tookey (Jun 27, 2020)

Supporting a local economy is good but if a visitor doesn't want to spend a penny when they are visiting an area that's their business as far as I am concerned. I try to but people should not be condemned for not doing so. I suspect when Colin and people of his ilk do their annual visit to the city they don't think twice about the fact they only put money into the likes of Costa, M&S, and Debenham's etc


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## runnach (Jun 27, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> The CCC had one carried one out last year, for the whole industry including caravans, all types of motorhomes, campsites, taxes, employment off over 100,000 and they came up with £9.3 billion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Totally meaningless when justifying wildcamping it needs to drive down deeper ( part of my original point) we can’t quantify so mentioning it seems questionable 

But what we can safely say is on our travels we need to eat and drink like any other group, so are potential customers for local shops buying daily essentials

We also enjoy the emotional satisfaction when using restaurants ,pubs and cofffee shops we want and add value to the experience.....I can honestly say during my time in hospitality I never judged by what was in the car park. My ego was left outside and orchestrated ambience and experience people wanted to be part of...that hasn’t changed..businesses do as a rule receive us well it is their governors the councils we need to change mindsets and win the hearts and minds .....it’s all about winning hearts and minds


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## Tookey (Jun 27, 2020)

...........bet these same 'freeloaders' are the ones that when Colin bought his latest purchase on Amazon stacked it, distributed it and delivered it to his doorstep!! Rant over..........sorry I really ******* hate 'Colins'


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## Fisherman (Jun 27, 2020)

channa said:


> Totally meaningless when justifying wildcamping it needs to drive down deeper ( part of my original point) we can’t quantify so mentioning it seems questionable
> 
> But what we can safely say is on our travels we need to eat and drink like any other group, so are potential customers for local shops buying daily essentials
> 
> We also enjoy the emotional satisfaction when using restaurants ,pubs and cofffee shops we want and add value to the experience.....I can honestly say during my time in hospitality I never judged by what was in the car park. My ego was left outside and orchestrated ambience and experience people wanted to be part of...that hasn’t changed..businesses do as a rule receive us well it is their governors the councils we need to change mindsets and win the hearts and minds .....it’s all about winning hearts and minds



Sorry Andrew I never try to justify wild camping, there’s nothing to justify.
Why do we need to justify ourselves.
As I stated previously we should not get involved in this debate, car drivers, cyclists, and others who visit towns and villages don‘t require any justification.

Whats required is a sea change in attitudes, not us attempting to justify our existence. People like councillor Charles are not alone there are plenty of folk out there who share his views,  and indeed in here.


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## philstoke (Jun 27, 2020)

Just Joined as well


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## Deleted member 63887 (Jun 28, 2020)

toasty said:


> Anyone in this facebook group? A UK site trying to get some aires here. I am pessimistic about achieving the aim but can't fault their enthusiasm, so I've recently joined and thought I would spread the word.


Just checked it out and also joined the group. Motorhome service areas on motorways in the UK would be useful.


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## T4Lyn (Jun 28, 2020)

Just joined, will spread the word. Maybe the covid economic dip will encourage local authorities to be more open minded!


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

We have to be clear here. 

We don’t have to justify we need to educate.
To suggest that we have to justify ourselves puts hard working life long tax payers like us on the defensive. Why should we be on the defensive, we have done nothing wrong, the wrong doing comes through ignorance, we are not the ignorant ones, they the Colins of this world are.

Do yourselves a favour once a day listen to what uncle Colin has to say. And then remind yourself he is not extreme, he’s part of a large section of our ignorant il informed population. He Colin and his ilk need help, they need to know the facts before uttering such a pile of utter crap.

When we are out and about I often get into conversations with people, we have even had a few into our van. Within ten minutes their fears evaporate, their ignorance has been transformed and they are more comfortable with what and who  we are. Whilst parked up near Callander we got chatting to a couple who had parked their car before heading up Ben Ledi. Well they are now the proud owners of a Wildax Solaris van conversion. Last year they did Scandinavia this year well they were heading for France. But they will be heading down south instead.

If folk seem curious talk to them. 
Let them realise that you are not different from the crowd, not what Colin has been telling them, simply hard working people who are enjoying their hard earned retirement.
Hopefully one day Colin will see the error of his ways, maybe even join us.
You never know, happy endings do happen sometimes.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

On Politics Scotland tv programme this morning we are worried about all the Camper vans heading for Scotland due to relaxation of the lockdown.

Apparently were not worried about the greater numbers arriving in cars then heading into hotels and B&Bs who will come in much closer contact with people and environments. Creating a much greater risk to the people of Scotland than a few Covid safe camper vans. Apparently we are not concerned about Scots heading down south then bringing Covid back here. But we are concerned about the campers.


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## roadroamer (Jun 28, 2020)

just joined


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## glenm (Jun 28, 2020)

I've joined we need to start somewhere meanwhile France here i come later this year.


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## barge1914 (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> On Politics Scotland tv programme this morning we are worried about all the Camper vans heading for Scotland due to relaxation of the lockdown.
> 
> Apparently were not worried about the greater numbers arriving in cars then heading into hotels and B&Bs who will come in much closer contact with people and environments. Creating a much greater risk to the people of Scotland than a few Covid safe camper vans. Apparently we are not concerned about Scots heading down south then bringing Covid back here. But we are concerned about the campers.


Grrr!


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

runnach said:


> We went out for a drive today, first distance wise since lock down, checking out various spots we know. One was closed off with very large logs, which will hopefully be removed when lock down is lifted?
> 
> Another lovely spot, first thing that caught my eye was the pile of crap left under a tree, usual crap, empty vodka bottles, beer tins and the like, even a frying pan, just left Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
> 
> ...



Theres always a large number of vans heading our way runnach.
But this year I doubt if many will come from Europe, and they make up probably about 25%.
Also as you may have read on here some including myself are reluctant to WC for a while.
We plan only three nights in Ratagan and Morvich were we should be fine.
as for arran well we were thinking September, but have now decided against.
So lets see what happens.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

runnach said:


> Problem is Bill, not all sites will open at all this year, which make you wonder where the potential influx from south of border will park up??



That’s a good point, but some won’t come up without a booking. We are booked up for various sites but we got in early. 
if you still fancy Arran look at calmacs website . Bookings from 30 June. Increased passengers being carried. But bookings only 14 days ahead .


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## Deleted member 12051 (Jun 29, 2020)

I have joined too. I wrote to Durham council a while ago proposing the above - didn’t have the decency to reply


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## jagmanx (Jun 29, 2020)

Just think about how the local toilets (if they were open) would have been overwhelmed in Brighton and Bournemouth recently
Illegal and downright dangerous parking...I doubt any fines will be issued or collected !!!
Litter everywhere costing a vast amount to clear up
Councils and police quite right to complain !

Your truly Mr O'Git


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## trevskoda (Jun 29, 2020)

On the news a second wave is breaking out so some zones will be back into lockdown,folk just dont get it and many biz places from what i see just went on as normal with staff all sitting or working close together,big problem is if we dont work the country will go down the tubes,catch 22 situation.


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## Deg3y (Jun 29, 2020)

toasty said:


> Anyone in this facebook group? A UK site trying to get some aires here. I am pessimistic about achieving the aim but can't fault their enthusiasm, so I've recently joined and thought I would spread the word.


Just joined the CAMras group, now pending...


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## Harrytherid (Jul 2, 2020)

Tried googling *CAMpRA* to join using copied title but no joy.  Has anyone got a link, please?


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## winks (Jul 2, 2020)

Campaign for Real Aires UK - CAMpRA | Facebook
					

Our aim is to promote the year round recreational use of motorcaravans and to encourage mental and physical wellbeing of motorcaravan owners.  Europe has realised the benefits for tourism from...




					www.facebook.com
				




Cheers

H


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## izwozral (Jul 2, 2020)

Joined two weeks ago, should have posted it on here DOH.


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## Harrytherid (Jul 2, 2020)

Thanks but I do not engage with facebook.  I don't trust it/them.  Heard too many dodgy stories.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 2, 2020)

Harrytherid said:


> Thanks but I do not engage with facebook.  I don't trust it/them.  Heard too many dodgy stories.



@Harrytherid Here you go, link to the website.
I gather it's newly set up and therefore a work in progress just now...

CAMpRA - Campaign for Real Aires


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## MadRssss (Jul 5, 2020)

Going to France on Thursday, for a couple of months, before heading to Scotland in September. Hopefully we will have a better understanding of what’s happening here by then


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## Emmmy (Jul 7, 2020)

Joined  Campra yesterday. I sent a letter of thanks to the Arran tourist office for making the island so  camper friendly last year. Free chemical waste etc. Wondered whether a pro forma letter to councils like this worth while.....as well as suggesting positive action on aires.


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## Fisherman (Jul 7, 2020)

Emmmy said:


> Joined  Campra yesterday. I sent a letter of thanks to the Arran tourist office for making the island so  camper friendly last year. Free chemical waste etc. Wondered whether a pro forma letter to councils like this worth while.....as well as suggesting positive action on aires.



Arran on the whole is friendly towards us.
They also looked into putting in a third chemical waste point in Lochranza, but could not get access to proper sewage near the toilet. 
It’s great what you did, but much of the credit is also due to local communities on Arran who took over the toilets on the island. In Sannox new toilets were installed in 2018. 
Yet sadly some idiots have disposed of chemical waste in the public toilets near the beach carpark in Brodick, even though there are signs asking not to, and informing us were the chemical waste points are.


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## barge1914 (Jul 7, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Helen that’s great that you contributed to the local economy, we to try to do our bit on that front when out in the van.
> But I reckon we seriously have to look at this situation.
> Its almost from a position of guilt that we do so, we have been made to feel that we are burdens on local economies, and somehow have to justify ourselves as being economically viable. But look at the 500,000 who visited Bournemouth, what did they offer the local economy. Well they created pandemonium blocking roads, making it difficult for local businesses to operate, and emergency services to go about their business. They left several tonnes of litter for local services to clear up, and they probably infected some locals with Covid 19. There were apparently no toilet facilities available so its impossible that human waste was not also an issue.
> How many times have I seen car parks full of day trippers who venture no further than the beach, St. Andrews is a prime example. The fact that they are a burden on local communities being ignored. Yet folk love to tell us that we who make up 0.5% of road traffic are no more than a bunch of freeloaders. The fact is we may not spend nearly as much as folk staying in hotels, and B&Bs, but we probably spend more than your average car driver, and we tend to take more interest in were we visit. We have forked out thousands in VAT, Fuel duty, road tax, insurance, and maintenance, we have put billions into the uk economy long before we parked up for the night.
> ...


If they succeed in getting more Aires, and people to use them their hopefully will be less pressure on those nice quiet remote spots that we all like.


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## barge1914 (Jul 7, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> I have joined too. I wrote to Durham council a while ago proposing the above - didn’t have the decency to reply


Not unusual. Out of 7 or 8 councillors in Whitby only 2 had the courtesy to reply. Hint...if you write to multiple councillors always send emails to individuals, ccs end up in junk mail.


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## barge1914 (Jul 7, 2020)

Thanks to all those folks joining up for CAMpRA. The size of a movement, it’s number of members, is  particularly important when it comes to presence and credibility on the internet, even if only a proportion of them are actively doing anything. If you want to do something, great just join. If you only want to cheer and show support, just join.  

Do bear with them for a little while. Membership is mushrooming. There’s a lot of chat, ideas, suggestions...the usual forum stuff on the main group page. The leadership team is working it’s socks off in a separate group to put together strategy, clear objectives and targets before everyone starts running round like headless chickens, but everyone is a volunteer, there’s a lot to do, and it inevitably takes time. 

Soon specific tasks will be identified for a larger number of member volunteers to form sub-groups to take on special tasks and hopefully then the momentum can develop. 

One thing about this group is that it is entirely focussed on one thing...the promotion of all types of Aires and service points in the UK for motorhomes, not a subgroup of something else, just one purpose.


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## Picket (Jul 8, 2020)

I approached the four major supermarket chains about fours years ago re the posibility of setting up Aires at certain sites. I suggested they could team up with local tourist boards, ferry companies, chambers of commerce & local councils etc. I got one reply, from Tesco, saying thanks but no thanks. It wasn't just a why don't you do this letter. I set out number of owners, expenditure of said owner, input to the local economy etc but all to no avail. I wasn't suggesting one in every town but a trial on some of the major tourist spots, ferry ports & the like. Hotels & b&b's may not want us but we're not going to use them anyway so we're no threat. With the economy going down the toilet our money might be a little more welcome in the near future, we have the added bonus of being self isolating & having been social distancing, so are of little threat. Still I've put my support behind CAMPrA, so let's hope they get a result.


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## barge1914 (Jul 8, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> Thanks to all those folks joining up for CAMpRA. The size of a movement, it’s number of members, is  particularly important when it comes to presence and credibility on the internet, even if only a proportion of them are actively doing anything. If you want to do something, great just join. If you only want to cheer and show support, just join.
> 
> Do bear with them for a little while. Membership is mushrooming. There’s a lot of chat, ideas, suggestions...the usual forum stuff on the main group page. The leadership team is working it’s socks off in a separate group to put together strategy, clear objectives and targets before everyone starts running round like headless chickens, but everyone is a volunteer, there’s a lot to do, and it inevitably takes time.
> 
> ...


And I should have mentioned for those who regard Facebook as sipping with the Devil...before too long when the website is up and running it should be possible to join up on line without a long spoon.


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## Biggarmac (Jul 8, 2020)

Emmmy said:


> Joined  Campra yesterday. I sent a letter of thanks to the Arran tourist office for making the island so  camper friendly last year. Free chemical waste etc. Wondered whether a pro forma letter to councils like this worth while.....as well as suggesting positive action on aires.


The CAMpRA leadership team are looking at producing pro formas which can be used by members, with adjustments for local circumstances.  If you look in the files section at the top of the facebook page you will see letters that have already been posted.  If you have done one of your own the leadership team would be interested in having a copy.  If you don't want to post it on the main forum send it to me here as a private message.  Thanks.  Meg Macdonald


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## Biggarmac (Jul 8, 2020)

Picket said:


> I approached the four major supermarket chains about fours years ago re the posibility of setting up Aires at certain sites. I suggested they could team up with local tourist boards, ferry companies, chambers of commerce & local councils etc. I got one reply, from Tesco, saying thanks but no thanks. It wasn't just a why don't you do this letter. I set out number of owners, expenditure of said owner, input to the local economy etc but all to no avail. I wasn't suggesting one in every town but a trial on some of the major tourist spots, ferry ports & the like. Hotels & b&b's may not want us but we're not going to use them anyway so we're no threat. With the economy going down the toilet our money might be a little more welcome in the near future, we have the added bonus of being self isolating & having been social distancing, so are of little threat. Still I've put my support behind CAMPrA, so let's hope they get a result.


Things have changed since four years ago and new approaches are needed.  It might be worth speaking to local management at a supermarket near you that seems, to you, to be a suitable target.  Pincer movement to local and national management might get us to the right person!  Meg


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## Val54 (Jul 8, 2020)

Biggarmac said:


> Things have changed since four years ago and new approaches are needed.  It might be worth speaking to local management at a supermarket near you that seems, to you, to be a suitable target.  Pincer movement to local and national management might get us to the right person!  Meg


Might also be worth targetting those supermarket chains who have a continental link where the French equivalent allows overnight parking, eg Tesco and Carrefour .


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## Carrerasax (Jul 8, 2020)

It would be interesting to know what Lidl’s & Aldi get from Motorhomers as they are often in best locations with appropriate parking!!!


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## Biggarmac (Jul 8, 2020)

Carrerasax said:


> It would be interesting to know what Lidl’s & Aldi get from Motorhomers as they are often in best locations with appropriate parking!!!


They seem to be busy with motorhomers all over Europe.  They do cater better for us than conventional supermarkets, however they seem to all be time limited parking round here; so not likely to welcome overnighting.


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## runnach (Jul 8, 2020)

Biggarmac said:


> They seem to be busy with motorhomers all over Europe.  They do cater better for us than conventional supermarkets, however they seem to all be time limited parking round here; so not likely to welcome overnighting.


A lot of the time they don’t actually own the car parks often belong to a local authority or landlord of the site


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## prioryi (Jul 8, 2020)

Lidl in Fort William allow overnighting


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 9, 2020)

My two pennorth (for what it's worth, probably nowt!) is that the ongoing impact of C-19 possibly gives the campervanning community one of the best opportunities we have ever had of pushing forward with a campaign like this in the UK.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained?

There are benefits to be had all round for both service suppliers and service users.
Eyes and minds need to be prised open. It needs a strong, persuasive sales pitch.

Here's a thought: have we got any rich members with the right contacts who could lobby government for us all?!    

Will have a go at a bit of campaign letter posting/emailing myself soon as I get chance.
I'll use the template letters already composed by others as a starting point, folk with the knowledge who are good at phrasing things to get the message across and make the most impact. Fingers crossed!


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## mikejay (Jul 24, 2020)

Lol think I just got banned and blocked from the page only posted a screenshot from another motorhome group on fb of a trailer tent and load of crap left at Fleetwood central carpark the one the council has allowed overnight stops on.

Mike


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## caledonia (Jul 24, 2020)

prioryi said:


> Lidl in Fort William allow overnighting


Why would you want to stay overnight in a Lidl Carpark?


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## peter palance (Jul 24, 2020)

maureenandtom said:


> Freeloaders?


if and i say if, take good look,at a free council free loader, how much wages and better still ,expences, and has the balls to call us,his inner status,is full of his own
cr--. the smell for him is exceptional egotism, must over load, his ass ten fold. i am surprised the shops and general resturants have not kicked his shity ass. ok.pj


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## martinmartin (Jul 24, 2020)

peter palance said:


> if and i say if, take good look,at a free council free loader, how much wages and better still ,expences, and has the balls to call us,his inner status,is full of his own
> cr--. the smell for him is exceptional egotism, must over load, his ass
> ten fold. i am surprised the shops and general resturants have not kicked his shity ass. ok.pj


A ten fold ass,he wasn't that guy from my six hundred pound life was he.


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## Biggarmac (Jul 24, 2020)

mikejay said:


> Lol think I just got banned and blocked from the page only posted a screenshot from another motorhome group on fb of a trailer tent and load of crap left at Fleetwood central carpark the one the council has allowed overnight stops on.
> 
> Mike


The point of the campaign group is to promote the development of aires.  Posting about why we need them is not aiding the campaign.


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## mikejay (Jul 25, 2020)

Biggarmac said:


> The point of the campaign group is to promote the development of aires.  Posting about why we need them is not aiding the campaign.


My post was nothing about why we need them it was a screen shot of a abandoned trailer tent and lots of crap left at the fleetwood aire. And i was trying to get across the attitude of other motorhome owners who thought the trailer tent and crap left was not a problem. 50% of the posters thought it acceptable for crap to be left all over a car park that the council has designated as an aire. And that is the mentally that seems to be growing but anyway I got deleted and blocked with no explanation.


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## Fisherman (Jul 25, 2020)

mikejay said:


> My post was nothing about why we need them it was a screen shot of a abandoned trailer tent and lots of crap left at the fleetwood aire. And i was trying to get across the attitude of other motorhome owners who thought the trailer tent and crap left was not a problem. 50% of the posters thought it acceptable for crap to be left all over a car park that the council has designated as an aire. And that is the mentally that seems to be growing but anyway I got deleted and blocked with no explanation.



If I am reading your post correctly, you seem to be stating that 50% of Motorhome owners reckon it’s ok to to leave crap and that this is not a problem. Even if 50% did think this, and I find that astonishing as I have never met one, I am amazed that they would publicly state so. Every Motorhome owner on here would be appalled at such behaviour, and any I have spoken to out and about feel the same. I have never read a post on here were someone reckons that leaving crap in a car Park is ok. All I have read are posts condemning such selfish behaviour, and a willingness of the posters to remove such crap themselves left by other non Motorhome owners.


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## antiquesam (Jul 25, 2020)

mikejay said:


> My post was nothing about why we need them it was a screen shot of a abandoned trailer tent and lots of crap left at the fleetwood aire. And i was trying to get across the attitude of other motorhome owners who thought the trailer tent and crap left was not a problem. 50% of the posters thought it acceptable for crap to be left all over a car park that the council has designated as an aire. And that is the mentally that seems to be growing but anyway I got deleted and blocked with no explanation.


Join the elite clan of those blackballed by this elitist group of yuppies.


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## mikejay (Jul 25, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> If I am reading your post correctly, you seem to be stating that 50% of Motorhome owners reckon it’s ok to to leave crap and that this is not a problem. Even if 50% did think this, and I find that astonishing as I have never met one, I am amazed that they would publicly state so. Every Motorhome owner on here would be appalled at such behaviour, and any I have spoken to out and about feel the same. I have never read a post on here were someone reckons that leaving crap in a car Park is ok. All I have read are posts condemning such selfish behaviour, and a willingness of the posters to remove such crap themselves left by other non Motorhome owners.



The picture was on a fb group that has 59k members. The guy who posted the pic and message about the crap was attacked verbally and called all kinds. By at least 50% of people responding to the post and 50% backing him up. Obviously not every member on the group responded and not every member thought it was ok. But it was rather worrying that so many mixed age from young to old gave the guy that much flack he deleted his post. Members from the same group organised a meet a few years ago at the model boating lake in fleetwood and posted pictures of themselves taking up the whole car park. So the model club could not get on there own car park. This act if I remember made local press and that overnight spot was lost. And yes I know it is not the whole 59k of the said group that are irresponsible just a few and I am not anti that group I was trying to highlight what people trying to get uk aires are up against. 

Mike


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## Fisherman (Jul 25, 2020)

mikejay said:


> The picture was on a fb group that has 59k members. The guy who posted the pic and message about the crap was attacked verbally and called all kinds. By at least 50% of people responding to the post and 50% backing him up. Obviously not every member on the group responded and not every member thought it was ok. But it was rather worrying that so many mixed age from young to old gave the guy that much flack he deleted his post. Members from the same group organised a meet a few years ago at the model boating lake in fleetwood and posted pictures of themselves taking up the whole car park. So the model club could not get on there own car park. This act if I remember made local press and that overnight spot was lost. And yes I know it is not the whole 59k of the said group that are irresponsible just a few and I am not anti that group I was trying to highlight what people trying to get uk aires are up against.
> 
> Mike



Thanks for that Mike that clears things up.
Unfortunately there are idiots everywhere.
This is exactly why I dislike fb and forums on it.
I used to post on a fire service forum on fb, but stopped doing so for these reasons. I support what they are trying to do, but I don’t do fb anymore.
Thanks again Mike.


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## mickymost (Jul 25, 2020)

mikejay said:


> The picture was on a fb group that has 59k members. The guy who posted the pic and message about the crap was attacked verbally and called all kinds. By at least 50% of people responding to the post and 50% backing him up. Obviously not every member on the group responded and not every member thought it was ok. But it was rather worrying that so many mixed age from young to old gave the guy that much flack he deleted his post. Members from the same group organised a meet a few years ago at the model boating lake in fleetwood and posted pictures of themselves taking up the whole car park. So the model club could not get on there own car park. This act if I remember made local press and that overnight spot was lost. And yes I know it is not the whole 59k of the said group that are irresponsible just a few and I am not anti that group I was trying to highlight what people trying to get uk aires are up against.
> 
> Mike




Just as an observation on your post above  I dont agree with motorhomers filling a Carpark in Fleetwood which obviously would cause anger to others but you said they were on the Model Boating lakes hobbyists own car park.Correct me if im wrong but doesnt this car park belong to the council so in use to anyone including Campervans/Motorhomes.Or have the Model Boaters purchased it for their sole use Lock Stock and Barrel.I somehow doubt it as the council would not sell off a Car park on the seafront.


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## maureenandtom (Jul 25, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> If I am reading your post correctly, you seem to be stating that 50% of Motorhome owners reckon it’s ok to to leave crap and that this is not a problem. Even if 50% did think this, and I find that astonishing as I have never met one, I am amazed that they would publicly state so. Every Motorhome owner on here would be appalled at such behaviour, and any I have spoken to out and about feel the same. I have never read a post on here were someone reckons that leaving crap in a car Park is ok. All I have read are posts condemning such selfish behaviour, and a willingness of the posters to remove such crap themselves left by other non Motorhome owners.



I can raise your 50% and point to a 90% claim.    Councillor Louise Parkin said nine out of ten of us dump our rubbish on the street.









						Anger over motor home owners who dump their 'effluence' on the Burnham Explanade
					

The owners of motor homes have been causing anti-social problems in Burnham said Cllr Miss Louise Parkin at this week’s town council meeting.




					www.burnhamandhighbridgeweeklynews.co.uk
				



There were no complaints recorded by any of three councils who might have been involved and I felt a bit sorry for Louise.   She's the owner of the town's primary tourist attraction and I think she was feeling hard times and she took back her allegations.   To me though not as far as I know, publicly.

But = 90% of us?

EDIT:   The comments at the foot of the newpaper article are interesting.


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## mikejay (Jul 25, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Just as an observation on your post above  I dont agree with motorhomers filling a Carpark in Fleetwood which obviously would cause anger to others but you said they were on the Model Boating lakes hobbyists own car park.Correct me if im wrong but doesnt this car park belong to the council so in use to anyone including Campervans/Motorhomes.Or have the Model Boaters purchased it for their sole use Lock Stock and Barrel.I somehow doubt it as the council would not sell off a Car park on the seafront.


No idea all I know is it was a good overnight spot for many years not an official spot but if you arrived late and left early no one bothered. Then a group of individuals in motorhomes had a mini meet there one weekend filling the whole car park with vans and setting up camp. The next thing that happened is a big sign went up banning overnighting on the car park with fines in place. I would guess yes it is council owned and anyone can still park on there but now you will be fined if you stop overnight. Just found the original post when the boating lake got the sign https://wildcamping.co.uk/threads/bye-bye-fleetwood-model-car-park.45343/


Mike


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## Fisherman (Jul 25, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Just as an observation on your post above  I dont agree with motorhomers filling a Carpark in Fleetwood which obviously would cause anger to others but you said they were on the Model Boating lakes hobbyists own car park.Correct me if im wrong but doesnt this car park belong to the council so in use to anyone including Campervans/Motorhomes.Or have the Model Boaters purchased it for their sole use Lock Stock and Barrel.I somehow doubt it as the council would not sell off a Car park on the seafront.



I completely agree that Motorhomes have as much right to fill a car Park as cars do. No one takes any notice of a carpark full of cars, but a car park full of Motorhomes well that’s a different story.

But what should happen is limitations of possibly 10-20% of spaces in certain locations should be allocated to Motorhomes. That way the car park should always remain mainly for cars rather than us, and we still have access to the carpark. But I reckon organising large meets in public carparks is a bad idea. Such meets should not take place in such locations.


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## Fisherman (Jul 25, 2020)

runnach said:


> At last, someone talking sense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Read his article a few weeks ago Terry.
I can honestly say it’s the first time I have read an article about us and felt really good after reading it.
Its just a shame that the big two don’t do likewise and defend their members interests in this way. Their sole interest  seems the bottom line.
But I have recently been to three C&MC sites and in two of them Motorhomes outnumbered caravans. In Buxton it was about 2/3rds Motorhomes. I reckon they will have to rethink soon.

So well done Hamish.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 25, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> I completely agree that Motorhomes have as much right to fill a car Park as cars do. No one takes any notice of a carpark full of cars, but a car park full of Motorhomes well that’s a different story.
> 
> But what should happen is limitations of possibly 10-20% of spaces in certain locations should be allocated to Motorhomes. That way the car park should always remain mainly for cars rather than us, and we still have access to the carpark. *But I reckon organising large meets in public carparks is a bad idea. Such meets should not take place in such locations.*



That's a sweeping statement and I would argue that it very much depends on where the car park is, who controls it and how you go about it.

We've had one or two meets in the past in public car parks. They are not ideal, btw, but they suited our particular purpose at the time.

More importantly, they were pre-arranged with the relevant authorities/owners. We didn't just turn up willy-nilly and set up camp!

All 'meet' arrangements require a fair whack of logic, common sense and, in particular, a good dose of PR and common courtesy.

All the folk on this forum and sister sites who organise meets do a fab job on this front


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## Fisherman (Jul 25, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> That's a sweeping statement and I would argue that it very much depends on where the car park is, who controls it and how you go about it.
> 
> We've had one or two meets in the past in public car parks. They are not ideal, btw, but they suited our particular purpose at the time.
> 
> ...



Marie never having attended such a meet, you have me there.
But recently I know that meets were planned at the green frog in Moffat, and at Lochore in Fife. The problem with a public carpark is not knowing what the demand will be for the car park for the dates proposed. Three years ago we were in Arrochar. We were alone in a 100 odd place carpark that night. Next day the locals had organised a 10k run. When we got back from our hill walk the place was manic. I may have stepped over the mark, but I reckon it’s better to avoid public carparks, when private sites are available at little cost, that way we don’t upset anyone.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 25, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Marie never having attended such a meet, you have me there.
> But recently I know that meets were planned at the green frog in Moffat, and at Lochore in Fife. The problem with a public carpark is not knowing what the demand will be for the car park for the dates proposed. Three years ago we were in Arrochar. We were alone in a 100 odd place carpark that night. Next day the locals had organised a 10k run. When we got back from our hill walk the place was manic. I may have stepped over the mark, *but I reckon it’s better to avoid public carparks*, when private sites are available at little cost, that way we don’t upset anyone.



Like I said in previous post, it wasn't necessarily ideal but it was convenient and suited our purpose at the time.
There wasn't a convenient private site available in the specific area at the time, hence these sort of meets are usually a second-best compromise, or a 'needs must' if you like.

Any meets I might have attended in the past in public car parks were above board and pre-arranged.

The car parks also generated revenue for the owners as we all paid whatever the normal rates were for parking there 

The Green Frog has a massive outside area and very much welcomes the business that the meets generate.
The Laird has been organising successful meets there for some time now, never any problems.
It is also an ideal spot for exploring the surrounding area and is short walking distance from all the delights of Moffat, which is a cracking wee town


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## mickymost (Jul 25, 2020)

maureenandtom said:


> I can raise your 50% and point to a 90% claim.    Councillor Louise Parkin said nine out of ten of us dump our rubbish on the street.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Now then Louise from Burnham Council are you refering to Public Roads OR Council Car Parks

"Sedgemoor state that: “No person shall use any part of a parking place or any vehicle left in a parking place for the purposes of sleeping, camping or cooking.”

And apparently as owner of the towns primary tourist attraction surely she should be encouraging visitors NOT pushing them away.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 25, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Now then Louise from Burnham Council are you refering to Public Roads OR Council Car Parks
> 
> "Sedgemoor state that: “No person shall use any part of a parking place or any vehicle left in a parking place for the purposes of sleeping, camping or cooking.”
> 
> And apparently as owner of the towns primary tourist attraction surely she should be encouraging visitors NOT pushing them away.



I notice that article is 4 years old, and so are the comments about it


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## TeamRienza (Jul 25, 2020)

Read the comments section at the end of the article. Excellent responses from motorhomers and not one of the 17 comments is anti Motorhome.
Well done those who replied.

Davy


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## groyne (Jul 25, 2020)

But when it comes to waiving the rules:

https://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/pier-owner-s-delight-at-planning-victory-1-1715778


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## mickymost (Jul 25, 2020)

groyne said:


> But when it comes to waiving the rules:
> 
> https://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/pier-owner-s-delight-at-planning-victory-1-1715778






groyne said:


> But when it comes to waiving the rules:
> 
> https://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/pier-owner-s-delight-at-planning-victory-1-1715778




And this article is dated 2012 so wonder what happened in 2017 as she was given a 5 year temporary approval for the sweet shop conservatory on her Pier.?


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## chas142 (Sep 15, 2021)

toasty said:


> Anyone in this facebook group? A UK site trying to get some aires here. I am pessimistic about achieving the aim but can't fault their enthusiasm, so I've recently joined and thought I would spread the word.


I joined.


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## brian c (Sep 15, 2021)

Hi. Don’t quite understand why a wild camping forum and some of its members want aires and car parks in towns. Surely that is for the motorhome forum.  To me wild camping on an aires.  Car park. Does not sound anything like wild camping    If I am going to park with lots of  other people.   I might as well go to a site.    Or spend more time on the motorhome forum.   Brian.


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## peter palance (Sep 16, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> On Politics Scotland tv programme this morning we are worried about all the Camper vans heading for Scotland due to relaxation of the lockdown.
> 
> Apparently were not worried about the greater numbers arriving in cars then heading into hotels and B&Bs who will come in much closer contact with people and environments. Creating a much greater risk to the people of Scotland than a few Covid safe camper vans. Apparently we are not concerned about Scots heading down south then bringing Covid back here. But we are concerned about the campers.


hugs but but but no i said no kissing ok leave it out. ok.pj.xxxxx. oh sorry no kissing


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## MonicaDiamond (Oct 6, 2021)

Just heard about it so joined too


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## Biggarmac (Oct 6, 2021)

MonicaDiamond said:


> Just heard about it so joined too


There is not just the facebook page but the forum on the website.  www.campra.org.uk  It would be good if people, who are interested in getting Aires, registered for the forum and joined the campaign groups for their areas.  No charge to join or register.  We have over 26,000 on facebook but under 4000 have registered on the forum.


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