# Lost confidence



## Moonraker 2 (Jun 28, 2020)

Having been confined to home exclusively for the last three months with only a couple of days out, I have found myself losing the confidence to free camp. This feeling has been exacerbated by the stories of people in Wales and Cornwall and elsewhere actively and in some cases physically discouraging visitors. 
I thought I would book a couple of days in a campsite but school holidays are upon us and campsites are already saying they are likely to be full.
I expect a couple of short trips locally might restore my confidence but I wondered if anyone else was feeling a little shaky. 
I certainly won't be going abroad this year.


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## Asterix (Jun 28, 2020)

I think it'll be fine after everything reopens,the locals will be too busy with the hordes taking over the local towns and beaches to worry about a lone van parked up out of the way.


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## in h (Jun 28, 2020)

I am more worried about covid-19 than hostile natives. 

The government said they'd be led by the science when it came to easing lockdown, but the scientists say its too early.

The risk is now higher than it was in the middle of March.

We all want to get back on the road, but just because lots of people are acting foolishly doesn't make it a good idea: it makes it an even worse idea.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

Short trips to start with should do the trick?

You can scuttle back home quick if it doesn't feel right. I'm sure there's lots of folk feel exactly the same as you do, but judging by the number of mohos I saw trundling up and down both motorway and side roads in south Northumberland yesterday (Saturday) there's a lot more who are already getting back into the swing of it already.

Whether they were off on day trips, booked in and travelling to campsites, or possibly overnighting pre the 4th July 'lockdown lifting' date, who knows?

People have short memories.

TBH I think an awful lot of people will be having way bigger things to worry about now than motorhomes roaming about.

Suck it and see? Your confidence will come back given a little time


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## SimonM (Jun 28, 2020)

They’ve been discouraging visitors because it hasn’t been permitted to visit until now .  I’d be very p’d off if I saw someone being out and about when they shouldn’t especially if they were staying overnight


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## mark61 (Jun 28, 2020)

Couple of local trips sounds like a good plan. Day trip out, camp out if you fancy or go back home if uncomfortable. Testing the water is always a good idea when a little anxious.


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jun 28, 2020)

Agree with SimonM. Loads using our local park. Police regularly moving them on. Try to suggest that it is not allowed and that the police will move them met with serious abuse. Even had a large tent set up on neighbours land yesterday. They could at least have chosen a discreet colour.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

in h said:


> I am more worried about covid-19 than hostile natives.
> 
> The government said they'd be led by the science when it came to easing lockdown, but the scientists say its too early.
> 
> ...



I understand exactly where you're coming from, but can I gently disagree?

We are *much* more protected travelling around in a motorhome or camper than most other folks in normal vehicles. And that includes staying somewhere overnight as well as day trips.

With all necessary facilities on board we don't leaving our rubbish and human waste in bushes and beauty spots, or (hopefully if you've got any sense!) dive in to mingle with hordes of other people in the most popular tourist destinations.

The whole point of having a camper and going wild camping, imho, is to go places where you can avoid too much contact with the rest of humanity (apart from at meets, of course, but that's by choice) whilst still enjoying the freedom and joy a change of scenery gives you.

Apart from locking yourself away indoors, I don't think you can get a better, or much safer way of travelling about at any distance outside your home.


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## Robmac (Jun 28, 2020)

I would be more worried after a second wave and another lockdown, that might push people over the edge.

I reckon motorhomes would get a large portion of the blame for spreading the virus, rightly or wrongly.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> I understand exactly where you're coming from, but can I gently disagree?
> 
> We are *much* more protected travelling around in a motorhome or camper than most other folks in normal vehicles. And that includes staying somewhere overnight as well as day trips.
> 
> ...



Spot on Marie.

We pose much less of a risk than someone staying in a hotel or a B&B.
But already the great il informed are telling you not to come to Scotland.
But if you want to stay at a hotel or B&B, and pose a much greater risk to us.

WE WILL GIVE YOU A GOOD OLD TRADITIONAL SCOTTISH WELCOME .........


BONKERS.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> Agree with SimonM. Loads using our local park. Police regularly moving them on. Try to suggest that it is not allowed and that the police will move them met with serious abuse. Even had a large tent set up on neighbours land yesterday. They could at least have chosen a discreet colour.



They are NOT responsible wild campers by the sound of it! At least, not 'wild campers' in an actual campervan? Tents?!!!

Don't know how this particular situation is impacting on your day-to-day life, if at all - without *all* the facts it's hard to say, but are you sure it's not a wee bit of nimbyism? 

Just sayin'


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## SimonM (Jun 28, 2020)

It will be interesting to see if the recent blm, bournemouth beach etc and liverpool fc “meetings” raise a spike in their locale.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I would be more worried after a second wave and another lockdown, that might push people over the edge.
> 
> I reckon motorhomes would get a large portion of the blame for spreading the virus, rightly or wrongly.



Wrongly Rob.

First there will be far more coming up here in cars.
Those staying in hotels and B&Bs will be coming in much more contact with people. I stands to reason they pose a much higher risk than us Rob.
But that won’t stop the councillor Colin types from spreading the myth that we are a greater risk.


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## in h (Jun 28, 2020)

SimonM said:


> It will be interesting to see if the recent blm, bournemouth beach etc and liverpool fc “meetings” raise a spike in their locale.


Trouble is that a spike takes three or four weeks to become apparent. By then the cat will be out of the bag.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I would be more worried after a second wave and another lockdown, that might push people over the edge.
> 
> I reckon motorhomes would get a large portion of the blame for spreading the virus, rightly or wrongly.



I kind of doubt that, Rob? Seriously hope you're wrong any road! 

Like I've said before, the majority of people have short memories plus a lot of folk are starting to have much bigger things to worry about than what a handful of motorhomes are up to.

Been lots more manic media focus on the hordes of people turning up at beaches like Bournemouth than anything else.
I get the feeling that if motorhomes have been moving around and overnighting against the guidelines most of them have been at least doing it as discreetly as possible?

Who knows for sure?


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jun 28, 2020)

Mariesnowgoose. Of course it is nimbyism. We are a tiny hamlet that has been strictly  adhering to the lockdown guidance. Why would we welcome large groups of campervans filling the very limited space we have for parking.
Why would we welcome vans without facilities dumping human waste on the Cleveland Way.
why do the police have to  waste resources trawling out here to deal with folk who don’t understand simple rules?

just sayin’


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

in h said:


> Trouble is that a spike takes three or four weeks to become apparent. By then the cat will be out of the bag.



Yes, but that's most certainly *not* down to the motorhome community! 
And only extremely ignorant, biased or very sad, paranoid souls would ever believe that to be the case.


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## Gnomus (Jun 28, 2020)

My wife shares your concern, our plan is to continue to avoid crowds by travelling to quiet areas locally to build up confidence. In the meantime we will watch and wait, let the initial wave of enthusiastic campers and visitors subside a little and pick and choose somewhere where we are reasonably confident there will be few problems, not least with crowds. Also want to see if there is a spike caused by the easing, I reckon after waiting so long, a couple of weeks patience may be the way to go, Whatever you decide good luck.


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## in h (Jun 28, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> I understand exactly where you're coming from, but can I gently disagree?
> 
> Apart from locking yourself away indoors, I don't think you can get a better, or much safer way of of travelling about at any distance outside your home.


I am indeed suggesting that locking yourself away indoors is a safer plan. 
In my view, it's not the time for unnecessary travelling.
Come to that, although shops selling non-essentials are now opening, i don't plan to go buying things that I dont need any time soon.
I realise that the government would rather spend £200,000,000,000 on Trident, or a similar amount on HS2, rather than foot the bill for supporting people through more time on lockdown, but my view is that the risks are too high at present.
In a month or so's time we'll have a far better idea of the actual situation. Until then, i play to play safe.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> Mariesnowgoose. Of course it is nimbyism. We are a tiny hamlet that has been strictly  adhering to the lockdown guidance. Why would we welcome large groups of campervans filling the very limited space we have for parking.
> Why would we welcome vans without facilities dumping human waste on the Cleveland Way.
> 
> just sayin’



That's a completely different kettle of fish!

100% feel your justified grievance. It's such a rotten conundrum we're all facing and the world always has plenty of selfish, thoughtless idiots who don't know any better. What's worse is law enforcement apparently not able or reluctant to deal with the matter?

I have no solution for your current problem, but someone in 'authority' (council? police? Whitehall?) really should be able to deal with it  

We now live in very, very strange times indeed


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## mark61 (Jun 28, 2020)

Barring the hotspots we all know about, I’m fairly sure, most people  don’t even notice motorhomes.

I know for a fact, during lockdown there were at least 5 vans locally with people living in them. All sensibly parked up, not making a show. Completely unnoticed by most.

It’s only cause I’m a nerd that I notice  new vans into the area.

Always on the look out incase they have any handy bits I can nick.


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## in h (Jun 28, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Yes, but that's most certainly *not* down to the motorhome community!
> And only extremely ignorant, biased or very sad, paranoid souls would ever believe that to be the case.


Only very paranoid souls would read that interpretation into what I wrote.


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## Toffeecat (Jun 28, 2020)

I was wondering what exactly is the rules on wilding post July 4th. Can i overnight or do i have to stay on a campsite? Were noticing the campsites are pretty crammed already.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> Mariesnowgoose. Of course it is nimbyism. We are a tiny hamlet that has been strictly  adhering to the lockdown guidance. Why would we welcome large groups of campervans filling the very limited space we have for parking.
> Why would we welcome vans without facilities dumping human waste on the Cleveland Way.
> why do the police have to  waste resources trawling out here to deal with folk who don’t understand simple rules?
> 
> just sayin’



And why would you welcome folks into your hotels and your B&Bs.
You would also welcome your car parks full of cars so why not a few campers.
Your assertion that campers will dump human waste on Cleveland way is quite insulting.
Are you sure that you are on the right forum
You seem to have a very low opinion of our community.
Did you see any motorhomes or campers in Bournemouth.
If you did, I have no doubt were you would lay the blame.
Oh and bye the way, 500,000 visitors.
And the only ones with toilets were, you guessed it us.
Wonder were all that human waste ended up.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

in h said:


> Only very paranoid souls would read that interpretation into what I wrote.



That was definitely not my interpretation of your post, that was my own viewpoint on how the *rest of the world* might be perceiving the behaviour of the motorhome community during this god-awful situation we're all having to face


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## in h (Jun 28, 2020)

Toffeecat said:


> I was wondering what exactly is the rules on wilding post July 4th. Can i overnight or do i have to stay on a campsite? Were noticing the campsites are pretty crammed already.


There never were any rules, and there will continue to be none.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

Toffeecat said:


> I was wondering what exactly is the rules on wilding post July 4th. Can i overnight or do i have to stay on a campsite? Were noticing the campsites are pretty crammed already.



Toffeecat, you are allowed in Scotland to remain overnight anywhere were you can legally do so.


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## izwozral (Jun 28, 2020)

Moonraker 2 said:


> Having been confined to home exclusively for the last three months with only a couple of days out, I have found myself losing the confidence to free camp. This feeling has been exacerbated by the stories of people in Wales and Cornwall and elsewhere actively and in some cases physically discouraging visitors.
> I thought I would book a couple of days in a campsite but school holidays are upon us and campsites are already saying they are likely to be full.
> I expect a couple of short trips locally might restore my confidence but I wondered if anyone else was feeling a little shaky.
> I certainly won't be going abroad this year.



I know what you mean, been pondering what sort of reception a lone MH would get. We will only stay in very isolated spots that are well off the beaten track the first few times, until we feel 100% confident. What worries me more is leaving the MH whilst going walking rather than any personal attack,. 
Certainly wont be going to Wales or Cornwall in the near future and will be keeping my eyes and ears open re-visiting Scotland.


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## Robmac (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Wrongly Rob.
> 
> First there will be far more coming up here in cars.
> Those staying in hotels and B&Bs will be coming in much more contact with people. I stands to reason they pose a much higher risk than us Rob.
> But that won’t stop the councillor Colin types from spreading the myth that we are a greater risk.



Precisely Bill - the myth spreads.

Motorhomes are an identifiable target for people to vent their anger at. They can't look at a bloke in the street and know he was at Bournemouth, but a few stories go round about those arrogant motorhomers and we're all tarred with the same brush and very easy to spot.

I hope I'm wrong but a second lockdown might be the catalyst for a backlash, and people do like to have somebody to blame.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

Robmac said:


> Precisely Bill - the myth spreads.
> 
> Motorhomes are an identifiable target for people to vent their anger at. They can't look at a bloke in the street and know he was at Bournemouth, but a few stories go round about those arrogant motorhomers and we're all tarred with the same brush and very easy to spot.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong but a second lockdown might be the catalyst for a backlash, and people do like to have somebody to blame.



And a myth spread by the media, and the great il informed.
And sadly within our own community as post 16 highlights in here.
Apparently only folk in campers fill carparks, and  crap all over the place.


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> And why would you welcome folks into your hotels and your B&Bs.
> You would also welcome your car parks full of cars so why not a few campers.
> Your assertion that campers will dump human waste on Cleveland way is quite insulting.
> Are you sure that you are on the right forum
> ...


As we are still in lockdown the hotels,B&B and holiday homes are closed. That’s how it works.
The car park is next to the Cleveland way and I and others have seen the van occupants nipping over the fence with toilets rolls and seen the infamous cassette roses,

I really don’t see the relevance of the Bournemouth statements nor the assumptions you make about what I would think.

i have been campervanning (much of that free camping) since the late 70s so I’m fairly sure I’m on the right forum.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

Toffeecat said:


> I was wondering what exactly is the rules on wilding post July 4th. Can i overnight or do i have to stay on a campsite? Were noticing the campsites are pretty crammed already.



There have never been any specific 'rules' about wild camping as such, certainly not as part of any 'government guidance'?

And strictly speaking 'wild camping' in a moho or camper is a self-policing activity/community and always has been.

We rely heavily on common sense, shared knowledge within loose communities such as this website, consideration for the environment, tolerance of each other and respectful behaviour towards others who don't wild camp. We don't have any rules enshrined in the laws of the land - because there aren't any.

At least that's my own interpretation of how a wild camper should behave.
You won't find any wild camping rules in any government legislation, national or local, so looking for an 'official' source to give you the green light to go ahead and start doing what you have always done re wild camping before lockdown is a kind of non-starter, I think? 

You have to make your own mind up, just as you did before C-19 arrived and turned our lives upside down.

Don't let C-19 leave you permanently fearful - we had independence of thought and, hopefully, the ability to make sensible decisions before all this happened, we need to continue to do the same now, just with C-19 factored in as another problem we all now have to deal with as best we can.


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## Robmac (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> And a myth spread by the media, and the great il informed.
> And sadly within our own community as post 16 highlights in here.
> Apparently only folk in campers fill carparks, and  crap all over the place.



It might be ill informed Bill, but it does the damage.

Earlier on I was reading an Applecross forum earlier and it saddened me to see that local opinion was in part against motorhomes and the reasons cited were exactly that - dumping crap and rubbish and generally not obeying the rules.


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## izwozral (Jun 28, 2020)

No doubt about it there will be a second wave and a second lockdown, not caused by MHers but by anybody who is attracted to crowds or visiting places where the public are touching things as in shops and hotels..
Whether the none MHing public see us MHers as a virus carrying plague on the move, I don't know, but am more worried that the moronic boy racer types, who would hassle you in normal times, may feel justified in lobbing a brick at the MH.


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## mjvw (Jun 28, 2020)

Moonraker 2 said:


> Having been confined to home exclusively for the last three months with only a couple of days out, I have found myself losing the confidence to free camp. This feeling has been exacerbated by the stories of people in Wales and Cornwall and elsewhere actively and in some cases physically discouraging visitors.
> I thought I would book a couple of days in a campsite but school holidays are upon us and campsites are already saying they are likely to be full.
> I expect a couple of short trips locally might restore my confidence but I wondered if anyone else was feeling a little shaky.
> I certainly won't be going abroad this year.


I think it's normal to feel like that especially under the restriction we have all been living, Myself and the wife have discussed this at length we are not going to use campsite if at all possible as we like to self isolate, we will wild camp but it will be in out of the way place usually our style anyway. As an example i would not rock up and park in a urban seaside environment or in a village, a couple of community run west coast stop overs ( off the main tourist route areas) i will call to gauge reaction and inform them we are self contained.
For the last two weeks we have been going out driving around the and have not received any negative attention, if stopping for food etc I would ask the shop keeper if i was welcome to enter.
Short weekends away for us in the coming weeks, we are assessing the situation on a weekly basis, and not commenting to any fixed plan. So your not alone feeling like this but don't let it stop you from doing what you love doing.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> As we are still in lockdown the hotels,B&B and holiday homes are closed. That’s how it works.
> The car park is next to the Cleveland way and I and others have seen the van occupants nipping over the fence with toilets rolls and seen the infamous cassette roses,
> 
> I really don’t see the relevance of the Bournemouth statements nor the assumptions you make about what I would think.
> ...



I am fully aware that the Hotels are closed.
But when they open your village will welcome visitors with open arms.
I kind of thought you would not see the relevance around Bournemouth.
I does not fit into your belief that we are the main problem around Covid 19.


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> I am fully aware that the Hotels are closed.
> But when they open your village will welcome visitors with open arms.
> I kind of thought you would not see the relevance around Bournemouth.
> I does not fit into your belief that we are the main problem around Covid 19.


yes we will welcome visitors when the rules designed to prevent / mitigate the spread of the virus are lifted, The issue at the moment is folk who decide that the rules don’t apply to them.
BTW. I live close to the car park and have provided water and waste disposal facilities to some of the camper vans and the surfers. I have even loaned one camper a spare bottle of gas.

on what basis do you make the statement ‘...your belief that we are the main problem around Covid 19’?


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## mfw (Jun 28, 2020)

I would imagine if out of your own area ind est to park up for the night - cant really get peoples back up there - in your own local areas you know where to get away with it anyway


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> I am fully aware that the Hotels are closed.
> But when they open your village will welcome visitors with open arms.
> *I kind of thought you would not see the relevance around Bournemouth.*
> I does not fit into your belief that we are the main problem around Covid 19.



My reason for bringing in the Bournemouth aspect was to try and show that we may be wrongly assuming that the spotlight is always shining big & large on the motorhome community. Lots of other, non-moho, people are also getting flack during this whole fiasco.

Robmac is right about the fact that our vehicles are easy to spot and therefore easy targets when it comes to the 'blame game'.
And the 'blame game' is rife just now with the media (in all its forms!) homing in on anything that is headline grabbing and negative.

They also love to 'big it up' to make things into an even more sensational or emotion-stirring story.
No mention of the fact that probably 99% of the country is going quietly about their business as best as they can - that's not newsworthy!

We just have to accept the fact that C-19 has f*****d us all up good and proper and there will be all sorts of backlashes and reactions not just now but in moving on.

But again, the decision about whether you want to overnight in true 'wild camping' mode is very much down to the individual.
It always was and hopefully always will be.

Extreme caution and keeping an even bigger low profile than before would seem to be the sensible way to go in the coming weeks and months?

I will be travelling to meets, which is a different ball game, but I am planning to make my stop offs with friends and family as I make my way across the country. Any overnight stops will all be on private property. Won't be parking up in any POIs in parts of the country I've never visited before any time soon, unless I get my route planning and timing wrong, or something untoward happens!

Fingers crossed I will be fine. Life is permanently full of risks, I won't be worrying too much.


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## landoboguy (Jun 28, 2020)

I couldn't give a Monkeys, until the law says I cant then I will, as far as Im concerned all MH owners are not the same, some are good some are not, simple, it's the same about every group in life.

Im considerate, and always make sure Im not upsetting anyone as far as I can help, but if they get uppity because of their own perceived views than that's their problem.

Ill cross the bridge of any issues when they appear, until then, happy camping everyone.


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## Tookey (Jun 28, 2020)

Moonraker 2 said:


> Having been confined to home exclusively for the last three months with only a couple of days out, I have found myself losing the confidence to free camp. This feeling has been exacerbated by the stories of people in Wales and Cornwall and elsewhere actively and in some cases physically discouraging visitors.
> I thought I would book a couple of days in a campsite but school holidays are upon us and campsites are already saying they are likely to be full.
> I expect a couple of short trips locally might restore my confidence but I wondered if anyone else was feeling a little shaky.
> I certainly won't be going abroad this year.


Unfortunately your base in Sussex isn't really ideal but there are plenty of places that are not within the boundaries of our busy National Parks and coastline, but still have a lot to offer that will remain quiet even with the surge of domestic holidaying which we will see. I am based in the Pennines which is good example, I am north of the Peaks and south of the Dale's and there are carparks here where you could wild camp without bother as there is no 'anti tourist' vibes as so few visit and locals would be uninterested in your presence. Best wishes


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## Tookey (Jun 28, 2020)

I am new to this site so I might be wrong but I do get the impression that if you requested to spend your first night 'back out' at a location where another member is planning to stay you may well be welcomed along. I appreciate that two vehicles at the same wild camp site isn't ideal but maybe worth a try


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## Nabsim (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> And a myth spread by the media, and the great il informed.
> And sadly within our own community as post 16 highlights in here.
> Apparently only folk in campers fill carparks, and  crap all over the place.


I think the myth is spread by motorhome and Campervan owners more than the media. You are more likely to see a pic of a Van doing something wrong on a forum or Facebook group than anywhere else I would suggest. We are our own worst enemies.

Locally the Monsal Trail opened up when they allowed car parks to open a few weeks ago. I was initially surprised to see the cafe open until I took a careful look. They have marked 2mtr spots for anyone queuing, one door you go to and order paying with contactless. They have a second door that now has a table they place your full filled order from. They have spread picnic benches around well spaced. Toilets were immediately opened with outer doors propped open and signs informing you what to do.
I have seen it working as intended with everyone respecting social distancing, there are bins so no rubbish.

I have friends who full time in vans and I keep seeing posts of locals using the car park for a smoke, a bit of courting, eating takeaways. Rubbish is once again being dropped all over. Luckily due to some vans being in place for weeks during the lockdown local walkers have gotten to know some van lifers and know they have been clearing the areas they are in not leaving any signs of themselves either.

The virus isn’t going away society needs to come to terms of life with it. All it has ever needed is common sense but it does seem in short supply.

To the original poster, nothing has changed for wilding, if it doesn’t feel right then don’t stay. If you want to book a site then do so and enjoy it


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> I think the myth is spread by motorhome and Campervan owners more than the media. You are more likely to see a pic of a Van doing something wrong on a forum or Facebook group than anywhere else I would suggest. We are our own worst enemies.



Could not agree more. Post 16 on here sums 
up your point perfectly. Reading that post reminds me of councillor Colins video on here. Accept it’s worse because one of us posted it. It seems that we have less rights to park in the car park, and most of us empty our cassettes into a bush. Of course there are idiots amongst us, but they are a minority. But we always get bad press, which is bad enough from outside, but even worse from within.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> My reason for bringing in the Bournemouth aspect was to try and show that we may be wrongly assuming that the spotlight is always shining big & large on the motorhome community. Lots of other, non-moho, people are also getting flack during this whole fiasco.
> 
> Robmac is right about the fact that our vehicles are easy to spot and therefore easy targets when it comes to the 'blame game'.
> And the 'blame game' is rife just now with the media (in all its forms!) homing in on anything that is headline grabbing and negative.
> ...



I agree with Rob Marie. We will only be wild camping in august and in remote discreet locations in Scotland were there is no one living. We were considering Arran in September, but we have decided to wait till next year. The last year I did not visit Arran was 1986


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## trevskoda (Jun 28, 2020)

No bother here though i did not sleep out,we did get waves from other folk in vans and by some walkers and people in our car park how seemed interested in the van,i do think folk will buy into van life for hols as easy way to stay safe.
Many are surprised when they find the loo is self contained and holds its contents,never mind all the cooking gear /fridge etc,most thought there were just beds in a van and thats why we are ment to go stay on c/sites for loo and showers etc,silly sods need to get out more and open there eyes.


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## oppy (Jun 28, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> No bother here though i did not sleep out,we did get waves from other folk in vans and by some walkers and people in our car park how seemed interested in the van,i do think folk will buy into van life for hols as easy way to stay safe.
> Many are surprised when they find the loo is self contained and holds its contents,never mind all the cooking gear /fridge etc,most thought there were just beds in a van and thats why we are ment to go stay on c/sites for loo and showers etc,silly sods need to get out more and open there eyes.


Don't forget, Trev, we also tarmac drives too (with a bit that we have got left over from a job around the corner !!) as well as selling clothes pegs and lucky white heather


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## jann (Jun 28, 2020)

For first time out, keep to a distance from home that you can drive back home comfortably. We will probably stick to Brit stops or CLs for first few times..


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

Tookey said:


> I am new to this site so I might be wrong but I do get the impression that if you requested to spend your first night 'back out' at a location where another member is planning to stay you may well be welcomed along. I appreciate that two vehicles at the same wild camp site isn't ideal but maybe worth a try



This already happens between small groups of people who have gotten to know each other over the years, many of them originally via this website.

Like all private arrangements between friends, you won't necessarily see any info about it posted publicly on any social media, including this forum


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> yes we will welcome visitors when the rules designed to prevent / mitigate the spread of the virus are lifted, The issue at the moment is folk who decide that the rules don’t apply to them.
> BTW. I live close to the car park and have provided water and waste disposal facilities to some of the camper vans and the surfers. I have even loaned one camper a spare bottle of gas.
> 
> on what basis do you make the statement ‘...your belief that we are the main problem around Covid 19’?



Your comment about us filling the carpark, annoys me more than any other part of your post.
We pay for that privilege the same as car drivers. If the car park is full of cars and one of us can't get in/
Would you highlight this, I very much doubt it.

I did not state that we are the main problem re Covid, I have stated exactly the opposite. People coming to your village staying in hotels, and B&Bs pose a much greater risk. But no doubt your village will welcome them before us.

Here is a video already posted on here from councillor Colin.
Sadly your post reminded me of this video.
And he did not mention human waste.
I know we have inconsiderate idiots amongst us, but they are a small minority.
Your post failed to indicate this.
I apologise if I come across as hard line, but I feel our community gets a very biased unfair press without us adding to it.

Well done for assisting people with their cassettes.
But to be honest, they should avoid requiring your help.
We always wild camp for only three nights before either going to a site, or a chemical waste point provided.


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## antiquesam (Jun 28, 2020)

I think there comes a time when you have to decide what is important to you. Personally I'd rather take some risks rather than confine myself to sitting in four walls. Throughout I've walked the dog three times a day while keeping my distance. We've had a couple of away days in the van and today we went to the farmers market in Winchester. I was amazed at the organisation. Hand sanitiser at the entrance, a one way system and everyone keeping their distance. Similarly in the city centre orderly queues at the shops, the toilets were open, but it was difficult to keep two metres on some of the pinch points on the pavements. Roll on my first night out in the van, in 9 days time, since my fortnight in Scotland just before lockdown.
Life won't be worth living if it means bricking yourself in, but then, as I reach the three score and ten I'm coming to accept that the end will come sometime in the not too distant future.


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## barge1914 (Jun 28, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> As we are still in lockdown the hotels,B&B and holiday homes are closed. That’s how it works.
> The car park is next to the Cleveland way and I and others have seen the van occupants nipping over the fence with toilets rolls and seen the infamous cassette roses,
> 
> I really don’t see the relevance of the Bournemouth statements nor the assumptions you make about what I would think.
> ...


Are those doing the’nipping’ in small campers or in self-contained motorhomes. If you are slinging s**t we need facts, if either however give ‘em a broadside from me.


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## barge1914 (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Could not agree more. Post 16 on here sums
> up your point perfectly. Reading that post reminds me of councillor Colins video on here. Accept it’s worse because one of us posted it. It seems that we have less rights to park in the car park, and most of us empty our cassettes into a bush. Of course there are idiots amongst us, but they are a minority. But we always get bad press, which is bad enough from outside, but even worse from within.


Most of us empty our cassettes in a bush...do you really mean that, or is it irony?


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## mariesnowgoose (Jun 28, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> I think there comes a time when you have to decide what is important to you. Personally I'd rather take some risks rather than confine myself to sitting in four walls. Throughout I've walked the dog three times a day while keeping my distance. We've had a couple of away days in the van and today we went to the farmers market in Winchester. I was amazed at the organisation. Hand sanitiser at the entrance, a one way system and everyone keeping their distance. Similarly in the city centre orderly queues at the shops, the toilets were open, but it was difficult to keep two metres on some of the pinch points on the pavements. Roll on my first night out in the van, in 9 days time, since my fortnight in Scotland just before lockdown.
> Life won't be worth living if it means bricking yourself in, but then, as I reach the three score and ten I'm coming to accept that the end will come sometime in the not too distant future.



Ditto   

(Apart from the slight age gap!  )

The majority of people I've noticed on my very limited excursions outside have all been behaving extremely sensibly & well.
Plus anyone 'open for business' seems to have grasped the nettle and are doing their very best to cater for the C-19 situation.

Like I say, all the good and positive stuff just ain't sensational enough to be newsworthy.


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## antiquesam (Jun 28, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Ditto
> 
> (Apart from the slight age gap!  )
> 
> ...


Oh you are awful, bringing up the age thing and all


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jun 28, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> Are those doing the’nipping’ in small campers or in self-contained motorhomes. If you are slinging s**t we need facts, if either however give ‘em a broadside from me.


They are mainly but not exclusively the smaller vans.


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## Pauljenny (Jun 28, 2020)

You don't have to go to the seaside.
Use the POI.s to find a nice quiet carpark, off the beaten track.
Don't stay too long.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> Most of us empty our cassettes in a bush...do you really mean that, or is it irony?



Its me barge, the guy that tries to defend our good name, the only guy that has bothered to question post 16. Post 16 seems to suggest that plenty if not most of us were emptying cassettes inappropriately. I was highlighting post 16 not stating that most of us do this.


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> They are mainly but not exclusively the smaller vans.


The very vans that can get under the barriers put up to keep us out and to stop this. Anyone caught emptying a cassette inappropriately should be fined heavily.


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> let me have one more go and clarifying my original post.
> 
> _the majority of the post was about folk breaching some pretty simple and clear rules about ‘no overnighting’ During the lockdown_
> 
> ...


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## Fisherman (Jun 28, 2020)

You are highlighting many points not mentioned in post 16.
Of course no one should be parking in residents only car parking spaces.
They should be fined for doing so.
Only once on Skye were we in need of help with our cassette.
But that was due being let down by a site that promised us access for a fee in winter when we were there.
But fortunately we met a fellow motorhomer who did as you do.
I thanked him and handed over a nice Shiraz as thanks.
But anyone who heads out not taking into consideration their cassette, is behaving poorly in my honest opinion .
Its that kind of behaviour that leads to these issues.
As for the council fitting barriers.
Well the small campers that seem to be mainly causing your issues will be able to get under a 2.2m barrier.

Anyway I again apologise if I seemed rude, but if I had known about the parking for residents only I would not have felt so aggrieved.


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## TJBi (Jun 28, 2020)

Moonraker 2 said:


> Having been confined to home exclusively for the last three months with only a couple of days out, I have found myself losing the confidence to free camp. This feeling has been exacerbated by the stories of people in Wales and Cornwall and elsewhere actively and in some cases physically discouraging visitors.
> I thought I would book a couple of days in a campsite but school holidays are upon us and campsites are already saying they are likely to be full.
> I expect a couple of short trips locally might restore my confidence but I wondered if anyone else was feeling a little shaky.
> I certainly won't be going abroad this year.


I, on the other hand, most definitely intend to go abroad this year, to motorhome-friendly France.


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## harrow (Jun 28, 2020)

On the wireless they say the government are considering a lockdown in Leicester because there are so many cases of covid 19    this virus is not finished yet


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jun 28, 2020)

I for one will definitely be getting out and about in my van. I have worked non stop since February. Delivering meals to schools, vulnerable people in their homes, people taken off the streets and personal protective equipment to Nursing homes. I work for the local Council as a mini bus driver. At times it's been nerve wracking. Someone coughs and everyone steps back, people going off sick with the virus and we all waited to be next. I'm concerned about a second wave because I seem somehow to have made it through the first. So yes I for one won't be hanging around when we get the nod. I feel quite safe when I'm in my Van. I hope you all can overcome your anxieties and get back to enjoying what you love.


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## barge1914 (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Its me barge, the guy that tries to defend our good name, the only guy that has bothered to question post 16. Post 16 seems to suggest that plenty if not most of us were emptying cassettes inappropriately. I was highlighting post 16 not stating that most of us do this.


Oh, my brain is getting old...probably better that I read the earlier posts first!


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## barge1914 (Jun 28, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> The very vans that can get under the barriers put up to keep us out and to stop this. Anyone caught emptying a cassette inappropriately should be fined heavily.


In NZ they take this very seriously, eye-watering fines, and hirers caught dumping cassettes run the risk of instant cancellation of their rental and deportation...hmmm!


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## barge1914 (Jun 28, 2020)

TJBi said:


> I, on the other hand, most definitely intend to go abroad this year, to motorhome-friendly France.


I would so like to do likewise, except no one is going to provide travel insurance covering Covid, and being of a vulnerable age with a few relevant medical issues, if I got it it would be bad, and I am the only driver.


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## izwozral (Jun 28, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> In NZ they take this very seriously, eye-watering fines, and hirers caught dumping cassettes run the risk of instant cancellation of their rental and deportation...hmmm!



If I was caught doing the dumping here, would I be deported to NZ? 
Now that would a temptation I couldn't resist!


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## jacquigem (Jun 28, 2020)

We are planning to leave our Spanish home on Friday . Move North and East to try and find cooler climates and meet up with friends . Have planned small town aires but aware that even on Spanish plates might meet some resistance . Will let you know , but cant spend our lives in fear . Will take all sensible precautions and see what happens.


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## 2cv (Jun 28, 2020)

We certainly won’t be heading abroad till covid is over, too much risk of being trapped by an outbreak with no insurance. We will however continue to park and stay the night in sensible locations in the UK.


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## jagmanx (Jun 29, 2020)

in h said:


> I am more worried about covid-19 than hostile natives.
> 
> The government said they'd be led by the science when it came to easing lockdown, but the scientists say its too early.
> 
> ...


Agreed 
Total Incompetence and lies


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## mfw (Jun 29, 2020)

Cant see problem going to france if there is large outbreak they will want you out - exit france to another eu country i think could be more of a problem transit wise - there was no trouble getting out of spain when they locked down even when the police/customs/border patrol were checking vehicles at irun crossing - totally different now which is why i would stick to france - i'd also check that aires are open prior to going -if  villages dont want you they will shut the aires and parking areas


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## Rath Mullan (Jul 2, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> They are NOT responsible wild campers by the sound of it! At least, not 'wild campers' in an actual campervan? Tents?!!!
> 
> Don't know how this particular situation is impacting on your day-to-day life, if at all - without *all* the facts it's hard to say, but are you sure it's not a wee bit of nimbyism?
> 
> Just sayin'



We've had more than 30 'wild campers' staying overnight in camper vans and other vans during June, in beautiful fields next to our home. The impact on our day to day life has been that we have to step carefully around human excrement and tissue on the footpaths and our view is often blocked by 2 or 3 vans camped selfishly. I thought wild camping was about enjoying and respecting natural beauty in solitary locations. Those are the facts for us, so nimbyism, yes, I guess. I can sympathise with phase3begins!


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## Rath Mullan (Jul 2, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> And a myth spread by the media, and the great il informed.
> And sadly within our own community as post 16 highlights in here.
> Apparently only folk in campers fill carparks, and  crap all over the place.


I don't think anyone is saying  that its "only folk in campers". The facts are that during lockdown, where we live as well, it has been entirely folk in campers crapping, filling the car park and being aggressive to residents who have spoken to them. It's not a myth, and we won't be the only ones within this community who have noticed it. They may well be a minority, but it would show more responsibility to acknowledge that it's unacceptable behaviour. This would help the public recognise that most motorhome owners want to enjoy and respect the areas they visit.


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## Fisherman (Jul 2, 2020)

Rath Mullan said:


> I don't think anyone is saying  that its "only folk in campers". The facts are that during lockdown, where we live as well, it has been entirely folk in campers crapping, filling the car park and being aggressive to residents who have spoken to them. It's not a myth, and we won't be the only ones within this community who have noticed it. They may well be a minority, but it would show more responsibility to acknowledge that it's unacceptable behaviour. This would help the public recognise that most motorhome owners want to enjoy and respect the areas they visit.



You just stated it is only folk in campers.
You just justified and endorsed the myth that you state is not a myth.
And if you bothered to read my posts on here you will know exactly what I think of those who behave poorly. And right now anyone who is overnighting is breaking the law, something I and the vast majority of us have not done.
Seems to me you have an axe to grind, rid yourself of camper vans job done, problem solved. We don’t even know where these apparent Indiscretions have taken place, you have for whatever reason decided not to inform us.


----------



## mfw (Jul 2, 2020)

You might find it is irresponsible dog owners letting their dogs crap everywhere and not clearing it up - cant see people crapping where they want to spend a few nights and maybe go back to in the future - it is very easy to point a finger and put blame on someone whether guilty or not


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## Debroos (Jul 2, 2020)

Rath Mullan said:


> We've had more than 30 'wild campers' staying overnight in camper vans and other vans during June, in beautiful fields next to our home. The impact on our day to day life has been that we have to step carefully around human excrement and tissue on the footpaths and our view is often blocked by 2 or 3 vans camped selfishly. I thought wild camping was about enjoying and respecting natural beauty in solitary locations. Those are the facts for us, so nimbyism, yes, I guess. I can sympathise with phase3begins!



I agree that there are irresponsible wildcampers out there and this forum has always condemned them.

I am puzzled as to why the police did not deal with their illegal parking during lockdown.
Could you tell me where this was as I would like to contact them on this matter.


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## witzend (Jul 2, 2020)

Seems like a campsite owners gripe


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## barryd (Jul 2, 2020)

Rath Mullan said:


> We've had more than 30 'wild campers' staying overnight in camper vans and other vans during June, in beautiful fields next to our home. The impact on our day to day life has been that we have to step carefully around human excrement and tissue on the footpaths and our view is often blocked by 2 or 3 vans camped selfishly. I thought wild camping was about enjoying and respecting natural beauty in solitary locations. Those are the facts for us, so nimbyism, yes, I guess. I can sympathise with phase3begins!



Where is this exactly? Any photos?  30 vans in a group in a field during lockdown emptying crap all over the place.  How on earth did the authorities allow this to happen?  Given the stories we have seen and heard of genuine full timers and their troubles and getting fined by the Police Im struggling to understand how something as horrific as what you have described has been allowed to carry on without some kind of Police action.  Would be interested to know more. Lets name and shame them.

In the past there has been issues with Travellers / Gypsies and this kind of behaviour not that I want to pass the buck onto them but this certainly does not sound like the kind of behaviour anyone on this forum would participate in.


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## Fisherman (Jul 2, 2020)

barryd said:


> Where is this exactly? Any photos?  30 vans in a group in a field during lockdown emptying crap all over the place.  How on earth did the authorities allow this to happen?  Given the stories we have seen and heard of genuine full timers and their troubles and getting fined by the Police Im struggling to understand how something as horrific as what you have described has been allowed to carry on without some kind of Police action.  Would be interested to know more. Lets name and shame them.
> 
> In the past there has been issues with Travellers / Gypsies and this kind of behaviour not that I want to pass the buck onto them but this certainly does not sound like the kind of behaviour anyone on this forum would participate in.



And why is this person informing us about our apparant aggression and bad behaviour.
Why not the police.
Also has this poor behaviour suddenly stopped, if not whats being done about it now.
I have never seen 30 campers in a carpark before covid, never mind now.


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## mark61 (Jul 2, 2020)

Could be full timers getting together for a bit of security during lock down. No facilities, no nothing and people having a go at them all the time.

Could be anything with the evidence provided though.


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## izwozral (Jul 2, 2020)

If Rath Mullan doesn't post with more details and/or photo's, I would be tempted to take his/her post with a pinch of salt.
Like Fisher Bill, I can't ever recall seeing 30+ campers vans together other than on a meet.

If Mark is correct, having no facilities doesn't justify crapping on footpaths, any decent person would bag it.


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## peter palance (Jul 2, 2020)

Moonraker 2 said:


> Having been confined to home exclusively for the last three months with only a couple of days out, I have found myself losing the confidence to free camp. This feeling has been exacerbated by the stories of people in Wales and Cornwall and elsewhere actively and in some cases physically discouraging visitors.
> I thought I would book a couple of days in a campsite but school holidays are upon us and campsites are already saying they are likely to be full.
> I expect a couple of short trips locally might restore my confidence but I wondered if anyone else was feeling a little shaky.
> I certainly won't be going abroad this year.


keep your chin up, you will win, you are a winner, stick with us and see , only time will tell, winning is victorious, you will have that feel good factor,to the and, ok.pj.
2 finger up, peace and love. go for it. ok.


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## Robmac (Jul 2, 2020)

izwozral said:


> If Rath Mullan doesn't post with more details and/or photo's, I would be tempted to take his/her post with a pinch of salt.
> Like Fisher Bill, I can't ever recall seeing 30+ campers vans together other than on a meet.
> 
> If Mark is correct, having no facilities doesn't justify crapping on footpaths, any decent person would bag it.



Hmm. Just joined, 2 posts both anti motorhome with what sounds like hard to believe allegations.

Maybe a councillor with an agenda?


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## peter palance (Jul 2, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Short trips to start with should do the trick?
> 
> You can scuttle back home quick if it doesn't feel right. I'm sure there's lots of folk feel exactly the same as you do, but judging by the number of mohos I saw trundling up and down both motorway and side roads in south Northumberland yesterday (Saturday) there's a lot more who are already getting back into the swing of it already.
> 
> ...


great ok,pj.


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## peter palance (Jul 2, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Wrongly Rob.
> 
> First there will be far more coming up here in cars.
> Those staying in hotels and B&Bs will be coming in much more contact with people. I stands to reason they pose a much higher risk than us Rob.
> But that won’t stop the councillor Colin types from spreading the myth that we are a greater risk.


nor the ar--- who needs glasses in barnard castle, keep going, im one of us, ok.pj.


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## izwozral (Jul 2, 2020)

I wonder if Rath Mullan is from Rathmullan Co. Donegal?


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## Fazerloz (Jul 2, 2020)

Lets be honest 30 vans is quite possible and believable for whatever reason they are all there.


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## peter palance (Jul 2, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> Mariesnowgoose. Of course it is nimbyism. We are a tiny hamlet that has been strictly  adhering to the lockdown guidance. Why would we welcome large groups of campervans filling the very limited space we have for parking.
> Why would we welcome vans without facilities dumping human waste on the Cleveland Way.
> why do the police have to  waste resources trawling out here to deal with folk who don’t understand simple rules?
> 
> just sayin’


yes it is aloud, ok.pj.


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## Robmac (Jul 2, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> Lets be honest 30 vans is quite possible and believable for whatever reason they are all there.



Surely they will post the pictures soon, there must be some?


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## Fazerloz (Jul 2, 2020)

Robmac said:


> Surely they will post the pictures soon, there must be some?


I will be surprised if we hear from them again.


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## mark61 (Jul 2, 2020)

izwozral said:


> If Rath Mullan doesn't post with more details and/or photo's, I would be tempted to take his/her post with a pinch of salt.
> Like Fisher Bill, I can't ever recall seeing 30+ campers vans together other than on a meet.
> 
> If Mark is correct, having no facilities doesn't justify crapping on footpaths, any decent person would bag it.



Apologies. Certainly didn't mean to sound like I was justifying taking a dump on a footpath.


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## Robmac (Jul 2, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> Lets be honest 30 vans is quite possible and believable for whatever reason they are all there.



I find it hard to believe that they are all crapping on footpaths.


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## trevskoda (Jul 2, 2020)

The bad group of travelers do crap in fields foot paths and any place they stay,pilled into a co car park local and left it in a disgusting filthy mess,then wanted a backhander from co to move on.
Fact is they now buy campervans as young ones cannot get a tugger licence  at first.


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## izwozral (Jul 2, 2020)

mark61 said:


> Apologies. Certainly didn't mean to sound like I was justifying taking a dump on a footpath.



No apology needed Mark, I didn't take it that way.


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## Robmac (Jul 2, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> The bad group of travelers do crap in fields foot paths and any place they stay,pilled into a co car park local and left it in a disgusting filthy mess,then wanted a backhander from co to move on.
> Fact is they now buy campervans as young ones cannot get a tugger licence  at first.



If Rath Mullan is talking about 'travellers' Trev, that is quite a different issue with different problems.


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## Fisherman (Jul 2, 2020)

Robmac said:


> If Rath Mullan is talking about 'travellers' Trev, that is quite a different issue with different problems.





Robmac said:


> If Rath Mullan is talking about 'travellers' Trev, that is quite a different issue with different problems.



And if Rath is talking about travellers then it highlights an issue that affects us Rob.
It's important that we are not tarred with that brush.
But sadly due to ignorance of many we are.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 2, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I find it hard to believe that they are all crapping on footpaths.


Unfortunately what some do surprises me less and less there days. I was on a campsite just below Ayr and in what were  perfectly good clean toilets they crapped all over the floor for some reason.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 2, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> And if Rath is talking about travellers then it highlights an issue that affects us Rob.
> It's important that we are not tarred with that brush.
> But sadly due to ignorance of many we are.



The problem is all the general public see are a load of vans and have no need to distinguish between one group and another.


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## Fisherman (Jul 2, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> The problem is all the general public see are a load of vans and have no need to distinguish between one group and another.



Hence why we need a body to defend us, and enlighten them.


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## Robmac (Jul 2, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> Unfortunately what some do surprises me less and less there days. I was on a campsite just below Ayr and in what were  perfectly good clean toilets they crapped all over the floor for some reason.



Yes, I have also seen that in pub toilets and shop doorways before now. Some people are just sub-human.

But I've been on many, many motorhome meets and never known one instance of it happening, and that's without toilet emptying facilities available. So it does bug me a little when somebody comes on this forum ranting about the behaviour of motorhomers.


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## peter palance (Jul 3, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> The problem is all the general public see are a load of vans and have no need to distinguish between one group and another.


it should start with, i am the travelling light, like all wildcamping members, and take our rubbish, home with us. ok.pj.


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## peter palance (Jul 3, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Hence why we need a body to defend us, and enlighten them.


we are the travelling light, that is why we dispose of our rubbish in a good manner. like all wildcampers. presence company included, naturaly, ok.pj


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## Nabsim (Jul 3, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> The problem is all the general public see are a load of vans and have no need to distinguish between one group and another.


As someone who rode bikes most of my life I am used to that. Doesn’t matter what group you seem to long to (and it may only be the way you dress) you all get tarred with the same brush.
This is why I no longer like people,the very small bunch of idiots, bigots, tosses have me grouping everyone together


----------



## Fazerloz (Jul 3, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> As someone who rode bikes most of my life I am used to that. Doesn’t matter what group you seem to long to (and it may only be the way you dress) you all get tarred with the same brush.
> This is why I no longer like people,the very small bunch of idiots, bigots, tosses have me grouping everyone together



Likewise. refused service in pubs and cafe'  simply for wearing a leather jacket, turned away from campsites, b&bs, hotels just for riding riding a bike etc, etc, and just like now with the van we were always treated far, far better all over the rest of europe never once having a problem unlike this country. I learned long ago that no matter how much good as in doing the right thing, charity work etc, etc that a generally despised group do they will never change the minds of the bigots and NIMBYS that are so prevalent in this country unfortunately. I would love to be proved wrong but i am not going to hold my breath.


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## peter palance (Jul 4, 2020)

Robmac said:


> Yes, I have also seen that in pub toilets and shop doorways before now. Some people are just sub-human.
> 
> But I've been on many, many motorhome meets and never known one instance of it happening, and that's without toilet emptying facilities available. So it does bug me a little when somebody comes on this forum ranting about the behaviour of motorhomers.


yes i rant and rave, but all i do is wave, 2 fingers to the front, up yours, 2 fingers, to the back, peace and love, and the best of these is, " love" ok.pj. beat that,


----------



## Pedalman (Jul 5, 2020)

in h said:


> I am indeed suggesting that locking yourself away indoors is a safer plan.
> In my view, it's not the time for unnecessary travelling.
> Come to that, although shops selling non-essentials are now opening, i don't plan to go buying things that I dont need any time soon.
> I realise that the government would rather spend £200,000,000,000 on Trident, or a similar amount on HS2, rather than foot the bill for supporting people through more time on lockdown, but my view is that the risks are too high at present.
> In a month or so's time we'll have a far better idea of the actual situation. Until then, i play to play safe.



I agree with you  because we are now entering the most dangerous time . All these people going out getting drunk and losing their rational thinking are only going to cause spikes . I will personally continue to be cautious for another few weeks and I will just observe if there is going to be another wave of infections due to the lifting of restrictions.  Also in another few weeks we might get some more better weather, let's face it the weather is not good at the moment.


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## antiquesam (Jul 5, 2020)

I'm a bit confused. Two weeks ago the beaches were crowded and the doomsayers predicted that the hospitals would be full of the dying. The only problems seem to be in two or three towns where there are food processing factories and sweatshops. Furthermore, in these places the positive tests have increased but the hospital admissions haven't. Why? Have we done away with all the vulnerable now and are only left with the fit and healthy? Is the virus losing its potency?


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## Deleted member 25361 (Jul 5, 2020)

in h said:


> I am more worried about covid-19 than hostile natives.
> 
> The government said they'd be led by the science when it came to easing lockdown, but the scientists say its too early.
> 
> ...


Personally  I as many others think this crisis  is one big con. Science? There are not two scientists  out there that can agree with anything since this "2019 winter flu" came along! It will come and it will go!


----------



## mfw (Jul 5, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> I'm a bit confused. Two weeks ago the beaches were crowded and the doomsayers predicted that the hospitals would be full of the dying. The only problems seem to be in two or three towns where there are food processing factories and sweatshops. Furthermore, in these places the positive tests have increased but the hospital admissions haven't. Why? Have we done away with all the vulnerable now and are only left with the fit and healthy? Is the virus losing its potency?





WillyO said:


> Personally  I as many others think this crisis  is one big con. Science? There are not two scientists  out there that can agree with anything since this "2019 winter flu" came along! It will come and it will go!




Everyone has their own views on this like everything make your choice and live with it - i go out shopping and with dog what i want to do but i err on the side of caution - there is no cure yet


----------



## Deleted member 25361 (Jul 5, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I would be more worried after a second wave and another lockdown, that might push people over the edge.
> 
> I reckon motorhomes would get a large portion of the blame for spreading the virus, rightly or wrongly.


How Bill Gates and his partner in this "crime of the century" Professor  Fussi !  Has got inside the heads of the worlds population  really amazes me. Looking back since 2014 ( like a senator  in Florida has done since questioning this pandemic) the deaths in my area in Northern Ireland have been no greater than the "winter flu" we experience! A lot of deaths  associated  with Covid19 have been wrongly diagnosed  because some people have had the "flu virus" in their system but have been given death certificates " cause of death Civid19" although the death could have been an underlying  health problems Cardio or Cancer or a multitude of health issues. I have not had the symptoms  of Covid19 since it was reported but I bet if I was tested it would show I was a carrier! Why? Because in 2005 I had a heart attack  and a stent added and was advised as I was under the vulnerable category  I would be advised to take my flu shots every year. This I did for 2 years and then stopped because I always felt like s##t after the jab. From that first injection I have had a flu virus  in my body so ANY test would show I have covid anyone that has had a flu shot will show this . I can assure you I am only carrying what the government  has put  in my body from those 2 flu shots nothing since. Since I have stopped taking the flu jab I have never felt better.


----------



## Chrisinchip (Jul 5, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> I'm a bit confused. Two weeks ago the beaches were crowded and the doomsayers predicted that the hospitals would be full of the dying. The only problems seem to be in two or three towns where there are food processing factories and sweatshops. Furthermore, in these places the positive tests have increased but the hospital admissions haven't. Why? Have we done away with all the vulnerable now and are only left with the fit and healthy? Is the virus losing its potency?


Infection, detection and measurement time lags make it hard to identify and confirm spikes as quickly as we would like. There is a two week delay before the beginnings of a rise in infection rate, the peak follows even later. Hospital admissions START to rise after a further delay, say, event +3 or 4 weeks, ICU occupancy and the death rate follows on with another delay. The devastating spike builds from the newly infected beach goers spreading the virus to their households and communities, and so on - another delay factor. Think about how long the infection and death rates continued to rise after lockdown - infection rates didn't suddenly drop two weeks after lockdown. 
I believe we don't properly understand an individual's susceptibility to catching the virus. Vulnerability was used to describe the hugely varying levels of impact of the virus on individuals once infected and this is better understood, though not entirely. Humans are not becoming less affected by being infected though there are some improvements in the treatment of the most critically ill. As far as I know, there is no reduction in the virus' potency. There have been propositions that some areas of the world were infected by different strains, some nastier than others, and more recently about the virus mutating. I don't have an authoritative viewpoint on this but have not heard of any reliable conclusions that should make us feel better.
Summer conditions work in our favour - the virus is not a great fan of heat nor UV light, and viral loading (concentration) is generally less outdoors. This could save us from a Bournemouth spike.


----------



## Robmac (Jul 5, 2020)

WillyO said:


> How Bill Gates and his partner in this "crime of the century" Professor  Fussi !  Has got inside the heads of the worlds population  really amazes me. Looking back since 2014 ( like a senator  in Florida has done since questioning this pandemic) the deaths in my area in Northern Ireland have been no greater than the "winter flu" we experience! A lot of deaths  associated  with Covid19 have been wrongly diagnosed  because some people have had the "flu virus" in their system but have been given death certificates " cause of death Civid19" although the death could have been an underlying  health problems Cardio or Cancer or a multitude of health issues. I have not had the symptoms  of Covid19 since it was reported but I bet if I was tested it would show I was a carrier! Why? Because in 2005 I had a heart attack  and a stent added and was advised as I was under the vulnerable category  I would be advised to take my flu shots every year. This I did for 2 years and then stopped because I always felt like s##t after the jab. From that first injection I have had a flu virus  in my body so ANY test would show I have covid anyone that has had a flu shot will show this . I can assure you I am only carrying what the government  has put  in my body from those 2 flu shots nothing since. Since I have stopped taking the flu jab I have never felt better.



I can't honestly say if you are right or wrong, simple fact is I don't know. My point was that there could be a second wave whether imaginary or not and motorhomers are an easily identifiable target as a scapegoat.

I never have a flu jab either, I have seen the effects they have on other people.


----------



## Deleted member 25361 (Jul 5, 2020)

I think the problem with a lot of misinformation hails from the MSM !  If you listen too their c##p all day you'd  believe Hitler had claimed his throne in most if not all of the West's  civilised  countries! Thank heavens for the internet where you can see what's really going on in this troubled world! It just takes a little commonsense  to read between some of the lines. One of the biggest causes of misinformation  is our very own BBC! When they have to earn a living without being a parasite on the British public they might just decide too tell the truth!


----------



## Deleted member 25361 (Jul 5, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I can't honestly say if you are right or wrong, simple fact is I don't know. My point was that there could be a second wave whether imaginary or not and motorhomers are an easily identifiable target as a scapegoat.
> 
> I never have a flu jab either, I have seen the effects they have on other people.


I agree I think all we ask is people keep an open mind and follow the paper trails. Not just believing  everything the MSM tell us. A lot of this just doesn't  add up.


----------



## antiquesam (Jul 5, 2020)

Chrisinchip said:


> Infection, detection and measurement time lags make it hard to identify and confirm spikes as quickly as we would like. There is a two week delay before the beginnings of a rise in infection rate, the peak follows even later. Hospital admissions START to rise after a further delay, say, event +3 or 4 weeks, ICU occupancy and the death rate follows on with another delay. The devastating spike builds from the newly infected beach goers spreading the virus to their households and communities, and so on - another delay factor. Think about how long the infection and death rates continued to rise after lockdown - infection rates didn't suddenly drop two weeks after lockdown.
> I believe we don't properly understand an individual's susceptibility to catching the virus. Vulnerability was used to describe the hugely varying levels of impact of the virus on individuals once infected and this is better understood, though not entirely. Humans are not becoming less affected by being infected though there are some improvements in the treatment of the most critically ill. As far as I know, there is no reduction in the virus' potency. There have been propositions that some areas of the world were infected by different strains, some nastier than others, and more recently about the virus mutating. I don't have an authoritative viewpoint on this but have not heard of any reliable conclusions that should make us feel better.
> Summer conditions work in our favour - the virus is not a great fan of heat nor UV light, and viral loading (concentration) is generally less outdoors. This could save us from a Bournemouth spike.



I sincerely hope you have solved the conundrum that is foxing our scientists. They don't know why we are seeing much higher numbers of positive tests that aren't matched in similar rises in hospital admissions or deaths.


----------



## ricc (Jul 5, 2020)

from day one , ive questioned the gov advise.    its been known for years that uv light kills viruses,   and that people living an outdoor life generally have better immune systems than those living indoors. yet government advise was to stay indoors... even to the extent of shutting public parks and other outdoor spaces.,

ive pretty much carried on as normal , largly outdoors for a 12 hour working day, seven days a week,  on my own property.  the normal once a week trip to supermarket...... and odd customers turning up to collect things.   maybe one a week ive done delivery runs in a 50 mile radius....all with sensible avoidance of contact but not paranoid enough to wear a mask and wash hands every five minutes
one of my brother in laws, newly retired has been isolated in the house for three months, intends staying there untill a vaccine is available,   all hes doing is getting  constantly frightened by the media. not a way id want to live.

i live in a rural community of approx 40 people in a half mile radius.... of those 3 are high risk due to age and health history  another 3 over 70....if the 3 high risk died of virus we could call that worrying.... extrapolate that to a 60 million uk population and your looking at handy 5 million virus deaths....do the math on the laptop , call it computer modelling and were as likely to be right as any of the experts  (Several of whom have been proved to be widely wrong in the past, and been caught ignoring their own advise).   what we actually got....about 40k deaths, got to wonder whether lockdown and ruining  large sectors of the economy was actually justified.


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## Fisherman (Jul 5, 2020)

> their own advise).   what we actually got....about 40k deaths, got to wonder whether lockdown and ruining  large sectors of the economy was actually justified.



Yes we got 44,000 deaths with the lock down without it it would have been 250,000 to 500,000. And don’t think it’s finished yet we are not out of the woods.

Many in the US thought like you Sam, and willy, well look what’s happening now. Over 50,000 positive tests a day, and that’s just the ones that were tested. Tens of thousands will die there because of mixed messages from their state governors and the White House.

Yes mistakes were made, and scientists never agree on anything, but if we had simply treated this like a normal flue variant, then I and others might not be posting on here.

Oh willy don’t read all you see on the internet as fact,  it’s full of misinformation.
Oh and for all those who think the virus is weakening think again.
The variants of the Spanish flue today are more Virulent  than the virus that killed 50 million. The big difference is our bodies have a greater resistance to it now than we had in 1918-19.
I totally understand what you mean about the economy and it’s important that we get it back working ASAP. But don’t underestimate Covid 19, it’s a killer, and sadly many who underestimated its strength in the US and elsewhere, and countries that are to poor to fight it will pay a terrible price.


----------



## wildebus (Jul 5, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Yes we got 44,000 deaths with the lock down without it it would have been 250,000 to 500,000. And don’t think it’s finished yet we are not out of the woods.
> 
> Many in the US thought like you Sam, and willy, well look what’s happening now. Over 50,000 positive tests a day, and that’s just the ones that were tested. Tens of thousands will die there because of mixed messages from their state governors and the White House.
> 
> ...


The US is a good example of how the different approaches to this have gone within the one country
in New York State, they had a major issue at the start, similar to Northern Italy, due to lack of info and misunderstanding of where it was coming from (Europe not China, so through the major Internation Airports and spread from there).  They had a large initial increase of cases and deaths and projected to be a lot worse, but with a very strict lockdown the cases dropped, the daily death rate started reducing and their 'curve' flatttened in the same way as you see in countries such as Germany and other EU countries (including the UK, where the trend is definately and strongly downward despite the nay-sayers saying otherwise).
In many other US states, they ignored the advice from the scientific community and experiences from other Countries and they are paying the price with rocketing cases and a national death rate at a current level that is nowhere near the ultimate count from this.

Anyone who uses "the internet" as a source of information can always find a crackpot theory to meet any stance they want to believe.  It's great as they can always point to vindication of what they want to think.  I think the best one is Bill Gates will be injecting control nano-bots into people as part of an obligatory vaccine for this hoax virus and which is just a cover as the real purpose is for controlling the world population by the illuminati.  It's true, btw. I read it on the internet


----------



## Jiwawa (Jul 5, 2020)

SimonM said:


> It will be interesting to see if the recent blm, bournemouth beach etc and liverpool fc “meetings” raise a spike in their locale.


Apparently not, according to Patrick Vallance last... Thursday I think. So far.


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## Minisorella (Jul 5, 2020)

Yes, I saw the briefing too. It's too early to know for sure yet though... can be up to 14 days incubation.


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## in h (Jul 5, 2020)

Jiwawa said:


> Apparently not, according to Patrick Vallance last... Thursday I think. So far.


If 1500 people congregate in one place, chances are that at least one of them is infected. How many that person infects depends on the situation, but assuming it's on a beach, chances are only 15 of those 1500 will be infected.

A couple of weeks later, maybe half of those 15 are showing symptoms, but probably haven't been tested so don't appear as cases in the statistics. 

In the meantime, they have probably each infected four people they live or work with. So in another week or two, that'll be another 60. 

If a third of the original 15 and half of the extra 60 went to the pub last night, that's another 45 people sharing their infection. Indoors in a pub, the chances of passing it on are very much higher.

How lucky do you feel?

We should have kept the infection level down by imposing quarantine and lockdown two or three weeks sooner. 

By now, the infection levels really would be low enough to ease off a bit. But we didn't do as New Zealand, we just plain screwed up.


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## SimonM (Jul 5, 2020)

My sister’s partner is still in New Zealand and he’s not coming home until he can find a safe route back home that doesn’t involve several stopovers in dodgy countries. He’s only been out there 4 months


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## Minisorella (Jul 5, 2020)

Oh dear, here we go. I distinctly remember when lockdown was first being talked about that the public were incredibly anti any measures like that. The government were bombarded with people saying it would be total overkill for something akin to flu. It took a good couple of weeks of one-at-a-time little steps towards lockdown to get the public used to the idea without causing anarchy. I also wish lockdown had been imposed when the government first wanted it but they took the path of treading gently and building up to it, to get buy-in and cooperation. To be brutally honest, those who now complain that lockdown should have been imposed sooner should remember that they were always free to use their common sense and put themselves in lockdown at any time they wanted before the final step was officially announced... as I did.


----------



## izwozral (Jul 5, 2020)

Minisorella said:


> Oh dear, here we go. I distinctly remember when lockdown was first being talked about that the public were incredibly anti any measures like that. The government were bombarded with people saying it would be total overkill for something akin to flu. It took a good couple of weeks of one-at-a-time little steps towards lockdown to get the public used to the idea without causing anarchy. I also wish lockdown had been imposed when the government first wanted it but they took the path of treading gently and building up to it, to get buy-in and cooperation. To be brutally honest, those who now complain that lockdown should have been imposed sooner should remember that they were always free to use their common sense and put themselves in lockdown at any time they wanted before the final step was officially announced... as I did.



Not my recollection of it Jenny. 

I think most people were scared enough to do as instructed by Boris, of course there were the nay sayers, there still are, but I would say the majority did as instructed. There are some on here who still think the whole thing was/is a 'nonsense' but they are a definite minority.

Totally agree with you regarding people should have used their common sense, unfortunately, any common sense some people may have had seems to have gone out of the window as of a couple of weeks ago.
Nothing much has changed for Izzy & I, we are not going to the pub, nor restaurants or cafe's, we are avoiding crowds and social distancing from everybody else, this will be the norm for us for a long time to come.

Said it before, will say it again, we have not seen the back of this pandemic and I fear there is a lot worse to come, economically and with the death rate.

It isn't just dying of Covid 19 that we should worry about, it is the after effect of having it should you survive the virus. For some it is a life changing experience such as irreparable lung damage, long term mental health issues, muscle wastage, incontinence, loss of speech and damage to the central nervous system.


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## trevskoda (Jul 5, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> Unfortunately what some do surprises me less and less there days. I was on a campsite just below Ayr and in what were  perfectly good clean toilets they crapped all over the floor for some reason.


Some do that in shopping centres,some folk think they will get AIDS if they sit on a seat or girls get pregnant,yes even in these days some are still daft.


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## in h (Jul 5, 2020)

Minisorella said:


> To be brutally honest, those who now complain that lockdown should have been imposed sooner should remember that they were always free to use their common sense and put themselves in lockdown at any time they wanted before the final step was officially announced... as I did.


You are completely missing the point. 

Putting yourself in lockdown stops you catching it for a while, but it doesn't stop the virus replicating in the country. So when you eventually come out of lockdown, it will be there, waiting.

If we had locked down soon enough, and quarantined people coming into the country, just as New Zealand did, we would be completely free of it by now, as they are. 

Lockdown would be completely finished and businesses back to normal (except for businesses that rely on visitors from overseas).

Of course this is only possible for an island nation, like New Zealand. And the UK. 

One has a smart, effective PM who saw what to do and did it effectively, and the other... erm... doesn't.


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## trevskoda (Jul 5, 2020)

izwozral said:


> Not my recollection of it Jenny.
> 
> I think most people were scared enough to do as instructed by Boris, of course there were the nay sayers, there still are, but I would say the majority did as instructed. There are some on here who still think the whole thing was/is a 'nonsense' but they are a definite minority.
> 
> ...


I know a big chap who got it and left him like a walking zombe when he can manage to walk some days.


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## mfw (Jul 6, 2020)

At least by the end of the month we will know how bad it actually is we will be back in lockdown or free to roam and peoples worries will be less if no spike occurs


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## antiquesam (Jul 6, 2020)

in h said:


> You are completely missing the point.
> 
> Putting yourself in lockdown stops you catching it for a while, but it doesn't stop the virus replicating in the country. So when you eventually come out of lockdown, it will be there, waiting.
> 
> ...



You seem to be saying that the virus is lurking out in the undergrowth waiting to pounce on anyone silly enough venture out. 
In the places where the virus has spiked it seems the cause is indoors, with noise, low temperatures and moisture. Strangely the positive tests aren't being reflected in hospital admissions.
The crowded beaches shown two weeks ago haven't produced the increased cases predicted by some.
Everyone must do what they feel safe with and if that means bricking up the doors and windows so be it, but please don't criticise others for doing what they feel safe with.


----------



## in h (Jul 6, 2020)

I am saying that the virus is lurking in peoples throats, not in the undergrowth. Are you suggesting it isn't?


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## ricc (Jul 6, 2020)

if this deadly virus is waiting to catch us when we come out of lockdown , whats the point of lockdown if its going to get us eventually.?


ill answer my own question,  the point of lockdown was to reduce the hospital admission rate to a level the nhs could cope with.   in practise the admission rate went a lot lower, nightingales were never used . lockdown was never intended to stop everyone from catching covid.


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## antiquesam (Jul 6, 2020)

in h said:


> I am saying that the virus is lurking in peoples throats, not in the undergrowth. Are you suggesting it isn't?


I'm merely interpreting your second paragraph.
Where the spikes are occurring the hospital admissions aren't spiking at the same rate and the spikes aren't being seen where people are congregating outside but in food processing factories and sweat shops
Perhaps the answer to beating the virus would be to give up meat, processed food and cheap clothing.


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## barryd (Jul 6, 2020)

izwozral said:


> *Not my recollection of it Jenny.*
> 
> I think most people were scared enough to do as instructed by Boris, of course there were the nay sayers, there still are, but I would say the majority did as instructed. There are some on here who still think the whole thing was/is a 'nonsense' but they are a definite minority.
> 
> ...



Not my reflection of it either.  I seem to remember a lot of people back in March screaming for Johnson to do something and lock down as were the World Health Organisation and other countries like Italy.  Meanwhile our hapless PM was bragging about shaking hands in hospitals where there were coronavirus patients and mumbling on about "taking it on the chin" before low and behold nearly dying of Coronavirus himself.

I think there is little doubt that back then they were still farting about with this heard immunity strategy but they then wasted those precious couple of weeks before bottling it and locking down.  That was the big mistake. Experts reckon tens of thousands of lives could have been saved just by locking down a week or two earlier but now probably over 60000 people are dead as a result of not doing so.   Since then its been one cock up after another.  Sending untested patients from hospitals back into care homes was just unbelievable. Lying about PPE stocks, Counting a nose and mouth swab of one person as two tests, the list goes on and on.

Ill get accused of Tory and Johnson bashing no doubt now but lets face it, they cocked up big style and will continue to do so by the looks of it.  You cant shout hindsight either as we sat and watched it coming like rabbits in the headlights.


----------



## in h (Jul 6, 2020)

Lockdown should have been brought in earlier, and allied to a test, track and trace strategy. As it was done in New Zealand. That way, they got rid of Covid-19. Yes, they are restricted as far as international travel is concerned, but life is back to normal there, without any fear or risk of the virus.

I guess that their release will be the development of an effective vaccine. For other countries they're going to be on this rollercoaster of lockdowns and businesses closing, relaxations and second waves.

Because we locked down two or three weeks too late, all it could do was decrease the spike of infections, but done properly and in time, it could have been so much more effective - and would have cost VASTLY less money.


----------



## mark61 (Jul 6, 2020)

Those people screaming, would have been the same people screaming if we had gone into lockdown earlier. Which is why we have a name for such people.


----------



## in h (Jul 6, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> I'm merely interpreting your second paragraph.
> Where the spikes are occurring the hospital admissions aren't spiking at the same rate and the spikes aren't being seen where people are congregating outside but in food processing factories and sweat shops
> Perhaps the answer to beating the virus would be to give up meat, processed food and cheap clothing.


The relationship between infections, ill health and hospital admissions isn't a simple one.

Chances are that most of the people working at the meat processing plants and sweatshops are relatively young, fit and healthy, so they will catch the disease, infect others but not get specially ill. Certainly not ill enough to go to hospital, possibly not ill enough to be tested.

The people they infect, or the people those people infect, will include people who are much less likely to be in a position to fight off the virus. By the time they get to hospital, it could be five or six weeks later. And they won't start dying for another week or two after that.

That's why it was so vital to test, track and trace. The country had an effective setup for doing that, but Boris decided to bypass all that and give the contract to his cronies, who are as useless as you'd expect.


----------



## in h (Jul 6, 2020)

mark61 said:


> Those people screaming, would have been the same people screaming if we had gone into lockdown earlier. Which is why we have a name for such people.


I don't hear anyone screaming, except Daily Mail readers.


----------



## antiquesam (Jul 6, 2020)

in h said:


> The relationship between infections, ill health and hospital admissions isn't a simple one.
> 
> Chances are that most of the people working at the meat processing plants and sweatshops are relatively young, fit and healthy, so they will catch the disease, infect others but not get specially ill. Certainly not ill enough to go to hospital, possibly not ill enough to be tested.
> 
> ...



They are testing everyone in the food processing plants and therefore should know contacts.


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## mr. badolki (Jul 6, 2020)

CHBrinton said:


> My wife shares your concern, our plan is to continue to avoid crowds by travelling to quiet areas locally to build up confidence. In the meantime we will watch and wait, let the initial wave of enthusiastic campers and visitors subside a little and pick and choose somewhere where we are reasonably confident there will be few problems, not least with crowds. Also want to see if there is a spike caused by the easing, I reckon after waiting so long, a couple of weeks patience may be the way to go, Whatever you decide good luck.


Indeed ! Better some patience now rather than a patient later !


----------



## peter palance (Jul 7, 2020)

Minisorella said:


> Oh dear, here we go. I distinctly remember when lockdown was first being talked about that the public were incredibly anti any measures like that. The government were bombarded with people saying it would be total overkill for something akin to flu. It took a good couple of weeks of one-at-a-time little steps towards lockdown to get the public used to the idea without causing anarchy. I also wish lockdown had been imposed when the government first wanted it but they took the path of treading gently and building up to it, to get buy-in and cooperation. To be brutally honest, those who now complain that lockdown should have been imposed sooner should remember that they were always free to use their common sense and put themselves in lockdown at any time they wanted before the final step was officially announced... as I did.


me 2 for 15 weeks and more, ok.pj keep going


----------



## peter palance (Jul 7, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> You seem to be saying that the virus is lurking out in the undergrowth waiting to pounce on anyone silly enough venture out.
> In the places where the virus has spiked it seems the cause is indoors, with noise, low temperatures and moisture. Strangely the positive tests aren't being reflected in hospital admissions.
> The crowded beaches shown two weeks ago haven't produced the increased cases predicted by some.
> Everyone must do what they feel safe with and if that means bricking up the doors and windows so be it, but please don't criticise others for doing what they feel safe with.


wait there is time, another two weeks, then you will no, stick with it, no go as yet,  dont be a yeti, or you will geti. ok.pj. stay clear, youse the in word.


----------



## peter palance (Jul 7, 2020)

barryd said:


> Not my reflection of it either.  I seem to remember a lot of people back in March screaming for Johnson to do something and lock down as were the World Health Organisation and other countries like Italy.  Meanwhile our hapless PM was bragging about shaking hands in hospitals where there were coronavirus patients and mumbling on about "taking it on the chin" before low and behold nearly dying of Coronavirus himself.
> 
> I think there is little doubt that back then they were still farting about with this heard immunity strategy but they then wasted those precious couple of weeks before bottling it and locking down.  That was the big mistake. Experts reckon tens of thousands of lives could have been saved just by locking down a week or two earlier but now probably over 60000 people are dead as a result of not doing so.   Since then its been one cock up after another.  Sending untested patients from hospitals back into care homes was just unbelievable. Lying about PPE stocks, Counting a nose and mouth swab of one person as two tests, the list goes on and on.
> 
> Ill get accused of Tory and Johnson bashing no doubt now but lets face it, they cocked up big style and will continue to do so by the looks of it.  You cant shout hindsight either as we sat and watched it coming like rabbits in the headlights.


yes you will, but all brushes youse the same tar, not politics, one is no better than the other, if it is not rite, ok.its my say, im saying in ,ok.pj.


----------



## peter palance (Jul 7, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> They are testing everyone in the food processing plants and therefore should know contacts.


what a bout liverpool and bournemouth, the i stand on the edge,but how many were there, who would know, only time will tell rite now, ok.pj stand clear.


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## peter palance (Jul 7, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> I'm merely interpreting your second paragraph.
> Where the spikes are occurring the hospital admissions aren't spiking at the same rate and the spikes aren't being seen where people are congregating outside but in food processing factories and sweat shops
> Perhaps the answer to beating the virus would be to give up meat, processed food and cheap clothing.


or snuffing it, dead beats all ok.pj. stay away from pro meat,try rabbiting,


----------



## peter palance (Jul 7, 2020)

mark61 said:


> Those people screaming, would have been the same people screaming if we had gone into lockdown earlier. Which is why we have a name for such people.


yes ------ ok.pj.


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## in h (Jul 7, 2020)

Once again, people are missing the point. Lockdown is not when you stay at home to avoid catching the disease. That's self-isolating and it only protects the person doing it.

Lockdown is getting everyone to change their behaviour to stop the disease spreading at all. If everyone did that, the disease would be wiped out within three weeks. Some jobs really are essential, so that can't happen in the UK.

These concepts are not difficult to grasp. All users of this forum could understand them, so there's another reason for dissing people who say the government screwed up: political blinkers.


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## Deleted member 12839 (Jul 9, 2020)

Moonraker 2 said:


> Having been confined to home exclusively for the last three months with only a couple of days out, I have found myself losing the confidence to free camp. This feeling has been exacerbated by the stories of people in Wales and Cornwall and elsewhere actively and in some cases physically discouraging visitors.
> I thought I would book a couple of days in a campsite but school holidays are upon us and campsites are already saying they are likely to be full.
> I expect a couple of short trips locally might restore my confidence but I wondered if anyone else was feeling a little shaky.
> I certainly won't be going abroad this year.


Hi moonraker  
I feel exactly the same and I’m sure we will not be alone.  I have never been  in a Supermarket fir three months, I tried it three weeks ago and I was followed around the aisles with an old lady nearly 

against me she didn’t seem to bother, I asked her twice to keep back.  I was wearing a mask and gloves but I actually took palpitations could’ve wait to get back to my own “bubble”
I still think we are the safest in our  Motorhome 
We will get used to face coverings 
Keep safe,


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## mfw (Jul 9, 2020)

I believe if people sit too long in the bubble it will become more of a problem to actually get back out - people would be better finding somewhere close to home getting a couple of nights in to help them relax and you can always go home if not comfortable but that is my personal view


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## Debroos (Jul 9, 2020)

mfw said:


> I believe if people sit too long in the bubble it will become more of a problem to actually get back out - people would be better finding somewhere close to home getting a couple of nights in to help them relax and you can always go home if not comfortable but that is my personal view


Yes, I feel like I have become institutionalised in my own home!


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## antiquesam (Jul 9, 2020)

If nothing else this little problem has produced some new meanings to words like bubble, lockdown and isolate. I'm only just getting to grips with bame and woke. I hope it's a while before something else comes along.


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## mfw (Jul 9, 2020)

Well no guarantees you can duck this even with minimal contact - statistics speak for themselves - accept and proceed with caution or you will have no life at all - well until they have a vaccine


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## in h (Jul 9, 2020)

mfw said:


> Well no guarantees you can duck this even with minimal contact - statistics speak for themselves - accept and proceed with caution or you will have no life at all - well until they have a vaccine


To describe staying at home as "no life at all" is a bit sad. I like staying at home. If i didn't, I'd find somewhere else to live. Wouldn't you?


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## mfw (Jul 9, 2020)

in h said:


> To describe staying at home as "no life at all" is a bit sad. I like staying at home. If i didn't, I'd find somewhere else to live. Wouldn't you?


What i mean is if you cant do anything you might as well be in a care home make life easy dont bother travelling and visiting places then - your choice


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## in h (Jul 9, 2020)

Can't do anything? I'm working through a huge backlog of jobs that needed doing, but were always being put off with going away so often.
If lockdown lasted another couple of years, I might catch up!


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 9, 2020)

I think everyone has to decide for themselves what they feel comfortable doing as regards the virus.

Personally, I shall proceed with extreme caution. I trust none of the folk 'at the top' telling us what we should do next, whatever their job title.
Will trust to my own nose, thank you. From what I can see they are merely feeling their way along. Not even sure they're doing that, tbh.

Anyway, as we are now in deep doo-doo economically (inevitable from the outset, as boss-man Phil predicted all those months ago) then we shall just have to make the best of it.

I know a few who won't be setting foot outside their house ever again until a vaccine is available.

Not for me, life is too short anyway. But I certainly won't be judging anyone who decides that's what they want to do.

I remember being judged only a few weeks ago for saying that I wouldn't be locking myself indoors and would take careful & cautious chances on venturing out. Accused me of being a selfish barsteward, I seem to recall.

Now we're all expected to venture out, and even to go back to work, vulnerable or not(!), even though we keep being told at the same time that 'the virus has not gone away!' followed by dire warnings about a 'second spike'. I have several retorts I could make to all those telling us how we should be living our lives (and frequently contradicting each other), but sadly none can be made before the 9pm watershed.    Hmm. Do we still have a watershed? I strongly suspect not...


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 9, 2020)

in h said:


> Can't do anything? I'm working through a huge backlog of jobs that needed doing, but were always being put off with going away so often.
> If lockdown lasted another couple of years, I might catch up!



Make that 5 for me!!!


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## antiquesam (Jul 9, 2020)

Hopefully all the jobs that need doing will still need doing when I'm meeting my maker, or warming myself on the fires of hell.


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## mfw (Jul 9, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> Hopefully all the jobs that need doing will still need doing when I'm meeting my maker, or warming myself on the fires of hell.


I'll join you in 2nd part of sentence


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## Jean (Jul 9, 2020)

We are in North Devon just now in a Caravan club site. They seem to have it pretty sussed. The only thing I don't like is the use of the hand dryer so we take our own towel down and have not showered. We are keeping away from busy places. Shop keepers seem to have it sussed down here as well.
Illfracome was really busy today so we did not stop. It is about carrying out your own risk assessment. If i can't keep two meters away then it is a no go. We have also been carrying hand gel around with us but most of the shops have this and are asking you to pay by contactless. I have to say people been very friendly and seem pleased to see us back. We have not been in any pubs or restaurants as we don't feel comfortable enough with that yet.   It is all about doing what you feel is safe. We are having  a great time so glad to be back out in the van again


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## Lonewolf (Jul 10, 2020)

Moonraker 2 said:


> Having been confined to home exclusively for the last three months with only a couple of days out, I have found myself losing the confidence to free camp. This feeling has been exacerbated by the stories of people in Wales and Cornwall and elsewhere actively and in some cases physically discouraging visitors.
> I thought I would book a couple of days in a campsite but school holidays are upon us and campsites are already saying they are likely to be full.
> I expect a couple of short trips locally might restore my confidence but I wondered if anyone else was feeling a little shaky.
> I certainly won't be going abroad this year.


It’s more then a pinch of salt this taught needs, it just takes one local angry native with a pub dart in his hand to push it into the soft side wall of your tyre and you will not hear or fill it as it goes down to slow and if all four is dune. That will mean new rubbers on all corners, a kings ransom for your overnight in this climate.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 10, 2020)

You could try a National Flag sticker on your bumper for the country you visit. It might deter the numpties.


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## antiquesam (Jul 10, 2020)

I feel we are getting into mad axeman territory here. Don't go out in case the bogeyman gets you.


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## Robmac (Jul 10, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> I feel we are getting into mad axeman territory here. Don't go out in case the bogeyman gets you.



You had to mention the bogeyman didn't you.

That's me stuck indoors for the next year then!


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## winks (Jul 10, 2020)

Our first big step, when we get home from our son's in Manchester, is chippy tea on the shore top. First time since last back end. Hope it's a good sunset .

Cheers

H


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