# a sad way to live.



## terry1956 (Dec 20, 2006)

Hi all, Well this hymer is becoming a pain, All my fault for not realy giving it a good test run before passing over the readys. I am kicking myselve, over the years I have rebuild cars, motorbikes and have a degree in engineering, Yet still ended up buying a dog.Maybe I am just getting old and to lazy to act on what my eyes and ears are telling me.
Anyway the Hymer as spend a week at the main dealers, having new injectors fitted, the fuel lines and tank washed out, and of course new filters etc. The cost is getting into 4 figures now and the work is not yet completed. So what to do ?? First ideas, take the lieing B==t--D who sold me the hymer and kick the S=== out of him. Will that would be ok if I was 10 years younger and a lot fitter. After talking it over with my partner who sees things in a more calmer light, The action was to take him to court, I have never had any good feelings about small claims courts, just a lot of hot air with know power to make people pay up. Anyway to cut a long story short, after a phone call to the trading stanards people I was told to write a letter to the seller in the same form as per their web site. Will would you adam and eve it, It worked, The seller is now picking up the whole cost of repairs, I feel a little bit better but still kicking myselve over this. Its just know fun growing old is it. So all of you out there thinking about spending your money think long and hard before buying, even from a dealer, and do walk away if it does not feel right. And if it does go wrong, there is help out there.
terry


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## Davy (Dec 20, 2006)

Its good to see a quick threat of legal action resolves the problem why should you be out of pocket. Dealer wasnt on ebay trading as Hymeruk?


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## terry1956 (Dec 20, 2006)

*Hi there*

Hi, no I don,t buy anything of e-bay these days, the last thing was a car cd player, and yes it did not work, and E-Bay are rubbish at helping out, lucky for me the seller was in devon. so got the money back myselve.
I must say that I can,t think of a time when the fear of court action as made anyone do anything, They never inforce their actions. What do you know of the e-bay dealer, I did look at their hymers, but I may as well gone to germany myselve and got one, at their asking prices. terry


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## 72van (Dec 21, 2006)

Hi Terry,
Glad you got a result,  
Its always worth a try at getting any money back after getting stung but i fear that 99 times out of a 100 it would be a waste of time.  
anyway does the hymer still feel like an old dog now its not costing you any money to fix ?
Would love to know more about the hymer as I looking to buy one in the new year


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## terry1956 (Dec 21, 2006)

*hi*

Hi there. Well it was not all easy going, But I did e-mail the dealer a few times first just to test the water, and it was no go, did not want to know, got your money and goodbye.
But things like that just get my back up, and when I informed him that fiat main dealers had made a statement of their findings, and also keeping the removed parts etc, he paid up.
OK about the hymer, well its early days, but 1st thing I notice it does not keep the road as well as my transit camper, This I but down to the transit being all metal and the Hymer a mix of F/G and light metal. There is a lot more space in the hymer and I low the seating arangelment, We went for the drop down only model, as there are only two of us, and I like the setee layout. I worry re the door locks,NO WAY AS GOOD as the transit, and have obtained fiama door locks.
The engine is the fiat ducato 2.8, and I have just picked it up from the workshop and its like a new engine, I asked the shop to wash out the fuel system, both lines and tank. I was told that ducatos have a fault in the filter inside the tank being blocked. 
To be honest, I am going to need to but a few miles on the clock to be reasured that all is ok.  I will be renewing the fuel filter after 6000 miles, when I do oil changes etc. I have also had the cam belt done due to age, and a good job I did, I was there when they removed it, and it looked very sad. This is a big job on a hymer and expensive so check its been done or cost for around 400 to 600 pounds for a replacing.
I think that the hymer will do for us, not being to big for the wild camping we enjoy, yet maybe not so good to drive as the transit, I hope it will do the job, time will tale. terry


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## Nosha (Jan 3, 2007)

*Small claims court*

I bought a caravan from a small dealer in essex, first time I used it all the electrics packed up - new Zig unit requied @ £174!!

Dealer didn't want to know, ignored my letter, CAB suggested small claims court, I had to go to HIS local court in Basildon (innocent until proven guilty) court found in my favour and he had to pay over £300 for ALL my out-of-pocket expences!

I asked the court in front of him "What if he doesn't pay up", they said "If he doesn't pay within 21 days we'll issue a CCJ and see how he trades with that against him!"... he sent a cheque 3 days later!!!!!!!!

The system works!!


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## virgil (Jan 3, 2007)

*Tall story*

Nosha..... I will resist the urge to ask how tall the dealer in Essex was! 8¬)


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## beejay (Jan 3, 2007)

*Hymer*

Hi Terry, Just read of your problem with the Hymer. I thought at first that you had bought private, but then realised it came from a Hymer main dealer.
Yes?? Or have I read it wrong. So was surprised you didn't simply take it back under warranty. I've recently changed to a Autosleepers Executive SE that had loads of faults that the previous owners didn't admit to the dealer, (no surprise there then)
But the Hymer staff bent over backwards to get it all fixed, which they did, & they also gave me a chit for a tank full of diesel!! The one fault thay couldn't bottom was the cruise control, so I arranged for a specialist to look at it, who fixed it with a new computor chip. Hymer then picked up the bill & a further tank full of diesel. I emailed the previous owners & told 'em what I thought of their dishonesty & that all the faults were now rectified. Guess where my next motorhome is coming from.


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## terry1956 (Jan 5, 2007)

*Hymer*

Hi there, No it was not a hymer main dealer just a small one man band motor trader who had a Hymer. I am but out my this, but under the law the dealer as to prove that the item was fit for perpose when he sold it to me, and this lasts for 6 months from time of purchase. I could not return the hymer as I had know way of getting it back, and the seller did not want to know, just telling me it was a tank of bad diesel, So into the main dealers (FIAT) it went. The result is as follows.
NEW injectors, NEW metering pump due to complete breakdown of cam inside, Complete washing out of system, They found a gallion of black tar like stuff in the tank, and all the fitters blocked with this stuff, the bills a big one and the seller must pay, or get a CCJ, and thats the end of his trading.
As the Hymer was a german import I feel that it as been ran on biodiesel, which is very common out there, and as there is no oil effect in this fuel, it just took out the metering unit, the black tar stuff, maybe thats what happens to unused biodiesel over time, I am guessing a bit on this. 
terry


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## rogerangie (Jan 5, 2007)

*sad way to live*

Three years ago we were in  Germany and talking to "THE NATIVES" they wouldn't touch boi with a barge pole because of the faults listed. It blocks injectors, fouls fuel pumps and also blocks fuel lines. BE WARNED. It is not as cheap as it looks being made from vegetable products.


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## terry1956 (Jan 6, 2007)

*Bio diesel*

Hi, well it looks like bio diesel it is then, I must say that I filled up a tank full last year when in germany, and the transit lost a bit of power, and also returned less MPG, on the run back into france, And yes it does make the engine smell like a fish and chip shop, All very odd.
terry


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## terry1956 (Jan 7, 2007)

*Hi there*

Hi there, don,t get me wrong theres nothing wrong with the hymer make. Its just the dealer thats bad. And I was just trying to make people think a bit before parting with lots of money, Also the bio diesel, well I have looked into this a bit more on a german site, and its a big trumps down for this fuel.
terry.
PS glad you like your Hymer.


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## terry1956 (Jan 8, 2007)

*Brownhills*

Hi there, motorhome dealers are on their own, I found a hymer that I wanted to see and was very interested in, on the web site of brownhills in newark, Bar in mind that I live in exmouth, Anyway I rang them at around 4.45 and asked if the van was still for sale, and that I was interested in viewing and taking out for a test drive etc. Anyway we trucked up the following day at 9.30 to be told that the van was sold, and was know longer in the lot, But if we wanted to look at orthers they would be more then happy. On having a look around, I asked if the van I had come to view was still on their web site, Iwas told no it was taken off, and must of been shortly after we set off, i rang a mate who had a look on the brownhills site, it was still there, I asked him to rin them an arange a viewing. He rang me in front of the brownhills salesman stateing that the van was still for sale and he was able to view anytime, I pasted the phone over to the salemans, and his reply was, THERES A MIX UP. when but to him that the van was a draw, and never was for sale, he would not say anything, We just walked away.
I found out later that Brownhills is not to good a company to deal with.
Anyway off to france this week, packed with beer, bacon and nice bread, and curry power for our french mates.
terry


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2007)

*Have a good time*

Hi Terry

I must say that I do not think they are very good. When we were first looking for a motorhome we went to Preston with a budget of about £21000. The lady salesperson made us feel like second class citizens and I will never forget that.

Ok I could not afford a new van, but I was a serious prospective customer.  After buying our van I went to Cannock & the lady there tried to tell me that  Hymer C class silver screens were different from other makes with the same Fiat cab.

U have a super time in France, wish we could go but still working, only have hols. Bon Route!
regards Graham


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## roland rat (Jan 11, 2007)

*Hymers*

Hi good buddies,
                     just to comment on dealers, its like walking through a minefield, in my opinion dodgy dealers should be named and shamed and given a wide berth, there are to many about, the bottom line for them is to screw the punter for as much as possible then ignore requests for after sales snags to be rectified. I have had very good service at Hymer uk, their service department is first class. I know they are now part of Brownhills but the management structure is very good. My Hymer is a Mercedes 550 starline with a 2.7 engine, I run it at 3.5tns to avoid any of the restrictions, they are a brilliant vehicle. Another good company to deal with is Todds at Lostock Hall
 they have a good workshop fascility and aftersales is ok.
              Regarding roadholding and stability, they cant be compared with a Transit van as they are A class and drive totally different but if you are a toe down merchant they are definately a match for anything on the road just hang on to the steering wheel and go for it, legally that is. Terry although you initially had a bad start with your Hymer Im sure you will now get a lot of pleasure out of it, they are as I have previously said BRILLIANT.
                                          Roland Rat.


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## roland rat (Jan 11, 2007)

*Hymers*

Hi Graham/Kath,
                     when I have been to Hymer uk sales I havent seen a femail sales person, times must have changed. I bought my first Hymer from them but the one I have now I bought from Kampers and Kars down in Poole. I still use Hymer uk for my servicing and spare parts as I know most of the staff and find them very helpfull.
                                   Sales people should show respect to all prospective buyers no matter what their budget is, if I had been shown disrespect I would have gone out of my way to let them know about their rudeness, its not on. You should have spoken to Paul Kershaw the MD, he would have had words with her
                    On another note, I am a member of the Lancashire Motor Caravaners Club which has regular rallies, the social side is brilliant and you meet people from all walks of life
                                            Roland Rat.


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## roland rat (Jan 12, 2007)

*One day I will.*

Hi Graham&Kath,
                        Ive never dealt with Hamiltons but I know where he parks the Hymers that he has for sale, they are on a caravan site at Warton near Freckleton, Lancs. I havent spoken to anyone who has had any dealings with him so I cant comment, I do know that most of what he sells is left hookers which dont appeal to me.
                                  Yes Im an old sweat of a tanker driver and done millions of miles with Gilbraith Tankers, we never turned away any bulk load no matter how dangerous it was to carry. The company has now been takenover by Hargreaves a large concern based in the north east. I have just over a year to do until Im put out to grass then we can get more use out of the Hymer, cant wait.
                               Its bad on the roads today congestion and jams allthe time, north of Inverness is the place to be, nice and quiet.
                                                                             Im falling asleep thinking about it.
                        Snoozing
                                    Roland Rat.


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## roland rat (Jan 13, 2007)

*Under the cosh*

Hi Graham Hi Kath,
                          will reply soon, having to take her indoors to a show at the Opera House,Catch you later, Yes I used to go into Petrolite.
                                                      Roland Rat.


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## rejectfromtheSBMCC (Feb 18, 2007)

Mmmm 1 Black tar like substance!!!, Thats what sugar turns into when dumped in fuel tanks.



			
				terry1956 said:
			
		

> They found a gallion of black tar like stuff in the tank, and all the fitters blocked with this stuff, the bills a big one and the seller must pay, or get a CCJ, and thats the end of his trading.


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## pappajohn (Feb 24, 2007)

terry1956 said:
			
		

> Hi there, motorhome dealers are on their own, I found a hymer that I wanted to see and was very interested in, on the web site of brownhills in newark, Bar in mind that I live in exmouth, Anyway I rang them at around 4.45 and asked if the van was still for sale, and that I was interested in viewing and taking out for a test drive etc. Anyway we trucked up the following day at 9.30 to be told that the van was sold, and was know longer in the lot, But if we wanted to look at orthers they would be more then happy. On having a look around, I asked if the van I had come to view was still on their web site, Iwas told no it was taken off, and must of been shortly after we set off, i rang a mate who had a look on the brownhills site, it was still there, I asked him to rin them an arange a viewing. He rang me in front of the brownhills salesman stateing that the van was still for sale and he was able to view anytime, I pasted the phone over to the salemans, and his reply was, THERES A MIX UP. when but to him that the van was a draw, and never was for sale, he would not say anything, We just walked away.
> I found out later that Brownhills is not to good a company to deal with.
> Anyway off to france this week, packed with beer, bacon and nice bread, and curry power for our french mates.
> terry


we went to brownhills about a year ago with a printed list from thier website from the previous evening but on site we were told one after the  other "that's sold". brownhills are rubbish. dont give a stuff about the customer unless you see something on site you fancy then they're all over you like a rash


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## Deleted member 775 (Oct 29, 2007)

roland rat said:
			
		

> Hi Graham&Kath,
> Ive never dealt with Hamiltons but I know where he parks the Hymers that he has for sale, they are on a caravan site at Warton near Freckleton, Lancs. I havent spoken to anyone who has had any dealings with him so I cant comment, I do know that most of what he sells is left hookers which dont appeal to me.
> Yes Im an old sweat of a tanker driver and done millions of miles with Gilbraith Tankers, we never turned away any bulk load no matter how dangerous it was to carry. The company has now been takenover by Hargreaves a large concern based in the north east. I have just over a year to do until Im put out to grass then we can get more use out of the Hymer, cant wait.
> Its bad on the roads today congestion and jams allthe time, north of Inverness is the place to be, nice and quiet.
> ...


hi just bin looking thro old posts i noticed you mentioned hargreaves in the northeast just wondered if you know if it is anything to do with hargreaves that used to be at rothwell near leeds i am going back some 40 od years now  as my dad used to drive for them i do beleive they took over smith and robinson tankers at some time  in fact dont know if you or anyone else remember the old film hell drivers but it was based on the old hargreaves company the original hargreaves was owned by briggadere (think thats how you spell it) hargreaves


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## Nosha (Nov 2, 2007)

*Re: Dodgy Hymers*

See P161 of this months MMM (Nov 07) They may be a VERY sort after m/h but just like all things with infernal combustion engines... you get rogue ones and poorly looked after ones!


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## lenny (Nov 2, 2007)

*the joys of motoring in a hymer*

Hi Terry.
My heart has just sank,I have dreamed about owning a hymer for many years now to replace my little renault traffic.
Although I think you've been unlucky,and this is a rare occurance,it does make you think.
I've been on the verge of paying 10K for 16 year old models,but it makes you wonder about the risk involved and the stress it could cause.
I've even scoured the German sites with the idea of importing one, but the bio-diesel carry on has got me worried now.
I think I'll just stick with my trusty traffic and keep on dreamin.

Good luck with yours...Lenny


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## terry1956 (Dec 16, 2007)

*follow up*

Hi all,Just a fellow up on the hymer, After 11 countries and 35000 miles, here are the good and bad points of the B544 to my mind.
GOOD. the setee, great after a days driving for resting my bad knee, would never buy a motorhome without that again. The kitchen area is a bit small, but I can make some good meals with the hob, we also use a cobb indoor bar-b-que. hanging space is ok, driving the hymer is ok, but it takes a bit of time to find the correct seat angle so as to stop my knee hitting the gear stick as I have long arms and short legs, returns around 25mpg all up and towing a trailer with quad and at motorway speeds so thats ok. lots of space for odds and ends, heating is very good and the hymer keeps in the heat which is good. 
Bad points. drivers seat gets a bit hard after a time and makes driving a bit of hard work, outside mirrors can block the drivers view at times, outside lockers a bit small to be realy useful. needs air ride suspension as drive to the front wheels can be a bit light at times, climbing up into bed is a bore after a time, but once in its ok. fridge door keeps coming open due to position and poor door lock, steps don,t go back all the way at times.
would I buy other hymer, well yes but with two single fixed beds, and not a fiat base due to their poor switch gear.
Anything needing doing, well I need 3 new tires I have replaced one to date, 3 to go. I repainted and derusted the underfloor lockers and reset the locks. air suspension is on its way and will be in place by feb. and maybe a new fridge lock, and a top box for my fishing gear. And thats it. terry


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## terry1956 (Dec 16, 2007)

*reply*

Well at the moment we are both in exmouth, had a death in the family and due to that reason we are here. Planning a trip for the end of feb. 1st off to france to pick up the Hymer, fit the new tires, air ride and check things out, then down to italy and into greece, back to france for the summer and then back to the UK around oct, nov time.
We had hopes of going to the states next year, but I have it in my head for some reason that this is not the time, so keeping a bit nearer. terry
PS.And yes the Hymer is OK, did look at buying a newer one but at this time don,t see the point now its sorted.


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## Geoff.W (Dec 16, 2007)

Having read through this post I feel some of the outrageous myths regarding biodiesel need to be dispelled.

Black goo left by running Biodiesel. What total c**p. Biodiesel is a very good detergent the only black goo you may get is that cleaned out of the system when you first start using bio. that was deposited by the mineral diesel. Hence the recommendation when you first start using bio extra filter changes are required until the system is clean.

Pump diesel now contains typically 5% biodiesel. Why. With the requirement to reduce sulpher content, using straight mineral diesel which is a poor natural lubricant would cause pump failures etc. adding bio, a very good natural lubricant, replaces the lubrication properties previously supplied by the sulpher. The idea that using biodiesel would cause problems due to lack of lubrication is laughable.

Smells like a chip shop. Anyone who makes this statement is talking absolute rubbish and does not know what they are talking about. The only instances I know of when vehicles smell of a "chip shop" is when they are run on WVO (waste vegetable oil) and only then if they are run without preheating the oil, ( typicaly 65'C + ). WVO and S(straight)VO are glycyl esters some what different to biodiesel, methyl ester. this link explains the difference.

http://www.biodiesel-fuel.co.uk/what-is-biodiesel/

Hope this helps to explode some of the myths and informs a little.


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## terry1956 (Dec 17, 2007)

*get off your horse*



Geoff.W said:


> Having read through this post I feel some of the outrageous myths regarding biodiesel need to be dispelled.
> 
> Black goo left by running Biodiesel. What total c**p. Biodiesel is a very good detergent the only black goo you may get is that cleaned out of the system when you first start using bio. that was deposited by the mineral diesel. Hence the recommendation when you first start using bio extra filter changes are required until the system is clean.
> 
> ...


Hi, please don,t say I don,t know what I am talking about or be so rude in the way you say things. My Hymer was a german import and they have been using bio diesel for some time over in germany, The breakdown of bio diesel over time standing unused in a fuel tank ends up looking like a black mass, The german motorhome forums have been full of stories of faults with fuel systems and most have stopped using bio diesel or use a 40/60 split, In the USA truckers have also reported faults when using 100 % bio diesel and most have returned to normal fuel. Your idea of using chip shop oil is i total rubish being talked here. I am only telling it as I see it and as the engineers reported their findings to me. I am sorry that for all the stories but sround stateing how great bio diesel is, if it is in the tank for some time the breakdown of sugars will kill the fuel system. terry


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## Deleted member 775 (Dec 17, 2007)

terry1956 said:


> Hi, please don,t say I don,t know what I am talking about or be so rude in the way you say things. My Hymer was a german import and they have been using bio diesel for some time over in germany, The breakdown of bio diesel over time standing unused in a fuel tank ends up looking like a black mass, The german motorhome forums have been full of stories of faults with fuel systems and most have stopped using bio diesel or use a 40/60 split, In the USA truckers have also reported faults when using 100 % bio diesel and most have returned to normal fuel. Your idea of using chip shop oil is i total rubish being talked here. I am only telling it as I see it and as the engineers reported their findings to me. I am sorry that for all the stories but sround stateing how great bio diesel is, if it is in the tank for some time the breakdown of sugars will kill the fuel system. terry


  one easy way is during the summer when using the van all the time use bio, in the winter use diesel. you are still saving a lot of cash, i only can use petrol so prob dont know too much about veg oil or bio diesel. bie the way i dont think anyone is rude or talking rubbish we all try to give info as we see it wether it be right or wrong, we just try to help. if the advice given is not correct then it is up to the individual to take it or not, non of us know every thing merry christmas.


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## Geoff.W (Dec 18, 2007)

terry1956 said:


> Hi, please don,t say I don,t know what I am talking about or be so rude in the way you say things. My Hymer was a german import and they have been using bio diesel for some time over in germany, The breakdown of bio diesel over time standing unused in a fuel tank ends up looking like a black mass, The german motorhome forums have been full of stories of faults with fuel systems and most have stopped using bio diesel or use a 40/60 split, In the USA truckers have also reported faults when using 100 % bio diesel and most have returned to normal fuel. Your idea of using chip shop oil is i total rubish being talked here. I am only telling it as I see it and as the engineers reported their findings to me. I am sorry that for all the stories but sround stateing how great bio diesel is, if it is in the tank for some time the breakdown of sugars will kill the fuel system. terry



I do not believe that any of my comments could be regarded as being rude as they where not directed at any individual but dealt with some of the common myths that surround this subject. I have no need to be rude or offensive as the facts and evidence support my views.

Here are some links to sites that give good but not too technical information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel

http://www.dieselveg.com/

http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/EthylEsterofRapeOil.pdf

You attempt to claim that I have accused you of "not knowing what you are talking about". If you are taking this from my comments about the smell of a vehicle run on biodiesel, I will state again anything run on good clean biodiesel will not smell like a chipshop. 
I would however from the things you have said, consider that not only have you been misinformed but I do not believe that you have researched the subject of alternative fuels, something I can assure you I have done over quite a considerable time.

If there has been so much concern in Germany over the use of biodiesel why are Volkswagen prepared to offer full warrenty even on B100 (100% biodiesel) usage. (See Wikipedia link above).

I would be intrested to know of your source of information regarding the use of biodiesel in the USA as from various articles I have read there would appear to be a growth in production.

Although I can't make proper sense of your comments regarding chipshop's, I would like to point out the original reference was made by you. If you are attempting to suggest the a diesel engine will not run on WVO (waste vegtable oil) then I am sorry but you know less about this subject than even I thought. Although using WVO presents general usage problems once warm and especialy if the oil is preheated an engine will run very well on it.

As to your comments about the breakdown of sugers, I can not understand where these sugers have come from. Biodiesel is what is refered to as a FAME Fatty Acid Methyl Ester. See here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_methyl_ester

I admit that I am not a chemist but I can't say that I have come across a prosses that spontainiously converts fatty acids in to sugers.

I find the subject of biodiesel/alternative fuels an interesting one and do read up on it. I am always willing to listen to alternative points of view but consider supportive evidence to be essential as I do find there is an awfull lot of myth and unsubstanciated claims made.

 These sites usually have some reasonable forum threads going on the subject.

http://www.sbmcc.co.uk/  UK site.

http://www.gm-diesel.com/  USA site.

I would like to finish by stateing that this post is made purely to inform, not to attack anybody or to be offensive, It redresses statements I believe to be incorrect and hopefully supplys the evidence that backs up my views.
I do and have here, challenged statements that are made, this should not be seen as a personal attack on those that have made the statement.


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