# Stay clear of bolton city



## THE LITTLE MUTT (Nov 2, 2011)

WARNING TO ALL WILD CAMPERS. 
Don't go anywhere near Bolton City.
As visitors from Australia touring in a motor home we
were told of the 3 great markets on Sunday mornings in Bolton. Pulled up to the first one which was more like a shed full of broken junk. 
Second was a big array of imported crap straight out of the container from some far away third world country.
All this by 7.30am. Next was the same as the second except when we came back to the van there was a parking ticket. 
A local seen us fuming and said that the council send them out every Sunday morning to revenue raise.
I seen the ranger and explained that we only parked there because everyone else was and that we didn't know any better. He said bad luck and appeal it through the council. 
Fired off a nice email as we were in Scotland by now.
Reply was bad luck and pay it. Not happy I sent an email to the Mayors office. 
Guess what, after 2 weeks, no reply. 
I can only guess that the head swine has his snout so far in the endless trough that he hasn't got time to reply to underling tourists who come to his city.
For all it's worth, the city is a disgrace of dirty sleazy neighborhoods, shocking roads, unhappy people (didn't see a smile on anyone's face). 
The racial mix is a failure and all the while the snout is still in the full trough, happy in his own importance.
I am sure the locals would like to see a bit of it spent on them.
Glad to have got that off my chest.
An apology to all the nice people of Bolton whom we didn't meet.
You should hold your inept council to task for the shabby, filthy condition of your city. 
Not sure if you will post it, but it had to be said.
Who goes around writing parking tickets at 8am on a Sunday morning in deserted back streets in industrial areas???


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## Pollik (Nov 2, 2011)

There are too many councils which run their parking more like rogue clampers.  Does anyone remember the days of public servants?





Polly


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## Byronic (Nov 2, 2011)

So you've seen the picturesque so far then. Wait until you see the rough towns!!
Now you know why so many Brits would like to emigrate to Oz.


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## Rubbertramp (Nov 2, 2011)

Is it a Parking charge notice or a penalty?

If it's a penalty you are legally obliged to pay it....
If it's a PCN (Parking Charge Notice), it has no legal backing so you can ignore it.
I'd be tempted to ingnore it anyway .....by the time they get around to chasing you, you 'd probably be back in Oz.


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## bigpieeater (Nov 2, 2011)

THE LITTLE MUTT said:


> WARNING TO ALL WILD CAMPERS.
> Don't go anywhere near Bolton City.
> As visitors from Australia touring in a motor home we
> were told of the 3 great markets on Sunday mornings in Bolton. Pulled up to the first one which was more like a shed full of broken junk.
> ...



This is probably part of the reason why so many Brits want to go and live in Oz!!
This country is falling to pieces....
(Enter John H to tell us all how wonderful it REALLY is and you have got it ALL wrong!!)


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## Rubbertramp (Nov 2, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> This is probably part of the reason why so many Brits want to go and live in Oz!!
> This country is falling to pieces....



I think it's only people who read the daily papers and listen to BBC news who really believe that.


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## Pollik (Nov 2, 2011)

Rubbertramp said:


> I think it's only people who read the daily papers and listen to BBC news who really believe that.



Oh, you mean the ones that keep abreast of what is going on? 




Polly


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## Rubbertramp (Nov 2, 2011)

Pollik said:


> Oh, you mean the ones that keep abreast of what is going on?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep....that's them.....you'll find one in every bar across the country.... spouting crap and usually standing by themselves.


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## Tony Lee (Nov 2, 2011)

> I can only guess that the head swine has his snout so far in the endless trough that he hasn't got time to reply to underling tourists who come to his city.
> For all it's worth, the city is a disgrace of dirty sleazy neighborhoods, shocking roads, unhappy people (didn't see a smile on anyone's face).
> The racial mix is a failure and all the while the snout is still in the full trough, happy in his own importance.



And you divined all this in an hour on Sunday morning. Corrupt officials, racial tensions,.....!!!!!!

Wow!!

Perhaps you could post a copy of your letter to the mayor so we can see what he didn't bother replying to.


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## bigpieeater (Nov 2, 2011)

Rubbertramp said:


> I think it's only people who read the daily papers and listen to BBC news who really believe that.



So,what you are saying is, the BBC, the Newspapers and several hundred thousand who emmigrated have ALL got it wrong this year have they?
Yeah right!
The population of the UK will hit 70 million buy 2050, a large percentage of the increase is due to Immigration...
Opps sorry, that was on the BBC News this morning so obviously it is Bo!!ocks!!
Wakey Wakey!


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## lotty (Nov 2, 2011)

Rubbertramp said:


> Yep....that's them.....you'll find one in every bar across the country.... spouting crap and usually standing by themselves.




and probably talking to the one's who complain about everything and the government and the local council but never vote!


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## bigpieeater (Nov 2, 2011)

THE LITTLE MUTT said:


> WARNING TO ALL WILD CAMPERS.
> Don't go anywhere near Bolton City.
> As visitors from Australia touring in a motor home we
> were told of the 3 great markets on Sunday mornings in Bolton. Pulled up to the first one which was more like a shed full of broken junk.
> ...



You are by now probably banging your head against a wall, look at some of the posts...these d!ckheads have their heads in the sand. Believe me, you are better off in Oz, lets face it, how many Ozzies are crossing continents to live here? Not bloody many I can tell you!
I remember, not too many months ago, a boat full off refugees were heading towards Oz, they were soon turned around and sent back to where they came from, the type of people on here that tell us the BBC and newspapers are full of lies should wake up and realise what is going on.
Do your self a favour LITTLE MUTT, try another forum, motorhome365 is one I would recommend, now watch my post get taken off for recommending another forum.
And I thought we lived in a democracy not a communist state!
Let us know when you get back to Oz, you can tell them all what a mixed up set of tossers live right here in the UK.
(Now watch the replies I get!) They'll make you laugh, some very strange ideas on here!!


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## Rubbertramp (Nov 2, 2011)

Yes I think they have got it all wrong.....because they _believe_ the crap that they are being fed. Anyway, the more fools that emmigrate to Oz or elsewhere...the more room for the rest of us to enjoy our wonderful country.

 This is only my ill-informed opinion....I travel all over the country, talk to many, many people of all races and beliefs both in cities and rural areas. But I do not read the national newspapers or watch TV news so what do I know?


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## Byronic (Nov 2, 2011)

Tony Lee said:


> And you divined all this in an hour on Sunday morning. Corrupt officials, racial tensions,.....!!!!!!
> 
> Wow!!
> 
> Perhaps you could post a copy of your letter to the mayor so we can see what he didn't bother replying to.




Little Mutt went to 3 markets Sunday morning and makes comments about 2 of these based on observations by 7:30. I can't see any reference to how long he took observing the other matters he commented on??


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## Rubbertramp (Nov 2, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> You are by now probably banging your head against a wall, look at some of the posts...these d!ckheads have their heads in the sand. Believe me, you are better off in Oz, lets face it, how many Ozzies are crossing continents to live here? Not bloody many I can tell you!
> I remember, not too many months ago, a boat full off refugees were heading towards Oz, they were soon turned around and sent back to where they came from, the type of people on here that tell us the BBC and newspapers are full of lies should wake up and realise what is going on.
> Do your self a favour LITTLE MUTT, try another forum, motorhome365 is one I would recommend, now watch my post get taken off for recommending another forum.
> And I thought we lived in a democracy not a communist state!
> ...



Wow!...Have I been sucked in or what?....What a pancake thrower! Byeee!


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## bigpieeater (Nov 2, 2011)

Rubbertramp said:


> Yes I think they have got it all wrong.....because they _believe_ the crap that they are being fed. Anyway, the more fools that emmigrate to Oz or elsewhere...the more room for the rest of us to enjoy or wonderful country.
> 
> This is only my ill-informed opinion....I travel all over the country, talk to many, many people of all races and beliefs both in cities and rural areas. But I do not read the national newspapers or watch TV news so what do I know?



Just watching that BBC news thingy..
Your right rubbertramp
They just said that Bill Gates is a very rich, successfull business man...what utter sh!t!
Now, they are talking to David Beckham, they are trying to tell me that he is one of the worlds greatest footballers, tossers, we all know he sells cheese from a market stall in Swindon.
Listen to this, HA-Ha-Ha, our local news is trying to tell me that energy prices are going to rise....HA-HA-Ha, I have never heard such rubbish, lies I tell you...LIES!!


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## coolasluck (Nov 2, 2011)

THE LITTLE MUTT said:


> WARNING TO ALL WILD CAMPERS.
> Don't go anywhere near Bolton City.
> As visitors from Australia touring in a motor home we
> were told of the 3 great markets on Sunday mornings in Bolton. Pulled up to the first one which was more like a shed full of broken junk.
> ...









Welcome to the magical wonderland that is Great Britain.
:rolleyes2:


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## bigpieeater (Nov 2, 2011)

Rubbertramp said:


> Wow!...Have I been sucked in or what?....What a pancake thrower! Byeee!



What the F--k is a pancake thrower?


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## bigpieeater (Nov 2, 2011)

Tony Lee said:


> And you divined all this in an hour on Sunday morning. Corrupt officials, racial tensions,.....!!!!!!
> 
> Wow!!
> 
> Perhaps you could post a copy of your letter to the mayor so we can see what he didn't bother replying to.



I'll tell you what he is p!ssed off about, THE LACK OF COMMON BLOODY SENSE, thats what!


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## n brown (Nov 2, 2011)

ker-ist here we go again.someone has a bad experience in a grubby part of the city[they all have them,not in oz i suppose]and condemns the whole place. and the same old same old arguments kick off.when stuff like this happens to me i don't burst into tears, sort it or get over it and get on with it


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## Byronic (Nov 2, 2011)

I've lived in OZ for a year and NZ for 15 years and here for 30 years.......and I'm saying nothing. Too scared!!!


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## Northerner (Nov 3, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> So,what you are saying is, the BBC, the Newspapers and several hundred thousand who emmigrated have ALL got it wrong this year have they?
> Yeah right!
> The population of the UK will hit 70 million buy 2050, a large percentage of the increase is due to Immigration...
> Opps sorry, that was on the BBC News this morning so obviously it is Bo!!ocks!!
> Wakey Wakey!



Do you still live in the U.K? And if it's such a terrible place, why?

For Little Mutt, Bolton by the way isn't a city. It does have a superb civic centre and is on the edge of some lovely countryside to the north. I've never found it worse than any other place and it's considerably better than some.


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## Northerner (Nov 3, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> What the F--k is a pancake thrower?



Perhaps if you'd cool, down a little, stop the obnoxious language and start to think, you'd be able to work out what a pancake thrower is! 

Here's a hint. What do they call it when you throw the pancake in the air in order to turn it over? Are you getting warm?


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## Pollik (Nov 3, 2011)

> Do you still live in the U.K? And if it's such a terrible place, why?



Yes...and I hope to address the second question, at least partially, soon.  I have ties to the UK...partner, children, parents and friends...living in or outside the UK is going to be a balancing act.

Life is like that...full of compromises.



> Perhaps if you'd cool, down a little, stop the obnoxious language and start to think, you'd be able to work out what a pancake thrower is!
> 
> Here's a hint. What do they call it when you throw the pancake in the air in order to turn it over? Are you getting warm?



And "tosser" isn't obnoxious??  It doesn't really matter how much you disguise the word.


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## Northerner (Nov 3, 2011)

Pollik said:


> Yes...and I hope to address the second question, at least partially, soon.  I have ties to the UK...partner, children, parents and friends...living in or outside the UK is going to be a balancing act.
> 
> Life is like that...full of compromises.
> 
> ...



It wasn't me that used the word, in case you hadn't noticed! But one thing's for certain, tosser is far less abusive then f**k and dickhead and some of the other language being bandied about by the person in question. In fact nowadays 'tosser' is seen to be on a par with idiot, or numbskull.


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## Pollik (Nov 3, 2011)

I think that whether tosser is acceptable or not depends on who you are.  As indeed is f*ck or dickhead.

Personally, I am not offended by any of them, unless there is a deliberate intent to offend, but I know people who are offended by all of them.  In fact, I would guess that f*ck is more widely used than tosser...you don't think that the French Connection UK logo came about by accident?  Or how feck is used?

Abusive words often amuse me...people can get hung up on a word (even if used without offensive intent) which freely used elsewhere in the same culture, and even by the same people in different circumstances.  Sometimes, perhaps even often, there can be a lack honesty and integrity in people's use or condemnation of naughty words.


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## sagart (Nov 3, 2011)

And i'm down in Bolton (Tonge Moor) next Tuesday/Wednesday! Wonder how I managed to live there for so many years................................


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## Northerner (Nov 3, 2011)

Pollik said:


> I think that whether tosser is acceptable or not depends on who you are.  As indeed is f*ck or dickhead.
> 
> Personally, I am not offended by any of them, unless there is a deliberate intent to offend, but I know people who are offended by all of them.  In fact, I would guess that f*ck is more widely used than tosser...you don't think that the French Connection UK logo came about by accident?  Or how feck is used?
> 
> Abusive words often amuse me...people can get hung up on a word (even if used without offensive intent) which freely used elsewhere in the same culture, and even by the same people in different circumstances.  Sometimes, perhaps even often, there can be a lack honesty and integrity in people's use or condemnation of naughty words.



The lesson therefore would be, that if you do not know your audience, you do not use words that most people know are considered offensive by the majority. In the company of a couple of my male friends I would use words that I would never consider using in front of people with whom I'm not so well acquainted. And this must surely apply to public forums? If you use four-letter words on forums you have no idea of the sensitivities of the other members and to use foul language is ill-mannered and to some, offensive. This to me is self evident.


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## MartianTom (Nov 3, 2011)

Gosh, it's threads like this that certainly bring out the best of the British!  

Or is that the worst?

Incidentally... the oft-cited immigration figures are all wildly inaccurate - the result, as they are, of a packet of statistics dumped wholesale into a boiling pan of media pundits and stirred vigorously, then generously served over a steaming bed of bigots.

In truth, in 2010, 12 million people emigrated from the UK to other countries, and only 206  people came in.  Crikey!  That means there'll be a huge shortfall in the care home sector, cleaning services, public transport and the NHS.

Better leave those doors open...


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## maureenandtom (Nov 3, 2011)

What Little Mutt says has more than a ring of truth about it. 

This is where he comes from. http://www.visitnsw.com/destinations/north-coast/coffs-harbour-area/urunga   Bolton isn't going to compete, now is it?

He's possibly heard fine stories of Britain all lhis life, spent hard earned cash to get here and look what he gets when he gets here.  Oh, we're fine at defending ourselves now but where are we so keen on going?  France, Spain, etc, that's where because we know the reception we get in Britain.   

We hear tales every day of how hard up we all are or how hard up we are all going to be.  Then why aren't we busily telling the people who are so keen to govern us that there is money to be made from tourism and why aren't they doing their damndest to get some of it for us.   What are we doing to make the situation better for our visitors - and ourselves?

Little Mutt, I hope you've had a better welcome elsewhere and I'd like to hear more of your experiences as a visitor in the hope that we can learn a little of how other's see us.


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## Randonneur (Nov 3, 2011)

In reply to the OP, most towns and cities these days have parking wardens out at times that you would not normally expect them to be. It seems to be the only way councils can think of to raise money without putting up the council tax charges. In London, parking tickets are an occupational hazard along with the congestion charges and LEZ charges that go along with the "privilege" of owning a motor vehicle in the capital.

In most tourist areas of the UK there is a hand at your window wanting money off you as soon as you stop. Cornwall being a case in point if you want to see the small fishing port areas. 

I can't speak for Australia, but my step daughter is over there in Perth at the moment, staying with her boyfriend's family, and she tells us the quality of life is far better than anywhere in the UK, and, although the wages overall are lower than the UK, your money buys you more than an equivalent amount would here.

As for your parking ticket, the system only works because people pay them! Would they chase you back to OZ to get payment off you? I don't think so.


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## n brown (Nov 3, 2011)

do they still call brits who move to oz and moan about the place "whingeing poms". as for swearing i'm a londoner and didn't know it was offensive to swear till i was forty,too late to learn proper ****ing english then of course.
as for us moving abroad,all the ex pats talk about in pubs is how they hate the place and the locals and relishing the "news" in the daily mail


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## bigpieeater (Nov 3, 2011)

Northerner said:


> Do you still live in the U.K? And if it's such a terrible place, why?
> 
> For Little Mutt, Bolton by the way isn't a city. It does have a superb civic centre and is on the edge of some lovely countryside to the north. I've never found it worse than any other place and it's considerably better than some.



Yep, I live in the UK (for now) the place isn't terrible...the system is.
I can only think that you hold your arms open to all the immigrants do you?
You stick two fingers up to common sense, do you?
It is people like you who are responsible for the downfall of this country. Hope you are very happy with how the UK is turning out.


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## bigpieeater (Nov 3, 2011)

Northerner said:


> Perhaps if you'd cool, down a little, stop the obnoxious language and start to think, you'd be able to work out what a pancake thrower is!
> 
> Here's a hint. What do they call it when you throw the pancake in the air in order to turn it over? Are you getting warm?



Hello and thank you for your explanation behind your 'Pancake Thrower' in your private message.
Cool down a little?
Obnoxious language?
OK, tell you what, like the majority of you, for the good of this forum, I will accept the NO MORE COMMON SENSE POLICY
Welcome Immigrants into the country, let them live happliy in a christian country whilst slowly turning it into another Islamic state.
There, happy now Investment BANKER!! (I don't think you'll need a private message for that one!!)


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## MartianTom (Nov 3, 2011)

Why is it that the only people who ever know how to run a country properly are either driving taxis or cutting hair?

Or maybe even driving campervans?


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## n brown (Nov 3, 2011)

what any of this has to do with wild camping is beyond me,although my wife says i am quite thick,but then she married me so i can't trust her judgement.too many of these threads end up like this,i'm going to try not to get sucked in again and stay on subject,whatever that was...?


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## bigpieeater (Nov 3, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> Why is it that the only people who ever know how to run a country properly are either driving taxis or cutting hair?
> 
> Or maybe even driving campervans?



I have no Idea how to run a country, but if i had the chance, I'd go back to some common sense, get out of being told what to do by Brussells and stop all foreign aid until we sort our own problems first, maybe you disagree, it wouldn't surprise me!


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## bigpieeater (Nov 3, 2011)

Common Sense?
Health & Safety Gone Mad?
And YOU think it is better now than it ever was?
WOW!


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## Northerner (Nov 3, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> Hello and thank you for your explanation behind your 'Pancake Thrower' in your private message.
> Cool down a little?
> Obnoxious language?
> OK, tell you what, like the majority of you, for the good of this forum, I will accept the NO MORE COMMON SENSE POLICY
> ...



Private Message? I didn't send you a PM. Perhaps it's some illegal immigrants who hijacked my profile and are just trying to wind you up? And it wasn't my 'pancake thrower' either. You really should take a deep breath, cool down and start reading the posts a bit more slowly and carefully. Who knows, if you did settle down you may even be able to work out pretty obvious epithets such as 'pancake thrower'.

Anyway, I'm genuinely really sorry that you're having all these worries. It must be awful waking up every morning so full of hate and rage and I do hope that you can find some way of bringing a little calm into your life. Good luck.


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## MartianTom (Nov 3, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> I have no Idea how to run a country, but if i had the chance, I'd go back to some common sense, get out of being told what to do by Brussells and stop all foreign aid until we sort our own problems first, maybe you disagree, it wouldn't surprise me!



In other words, clearly you know how to run a country.


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## MartianTom (Nov 3, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> Common Sense?
> Health & Safety Gone Mad?
> And YOU think it is better now than it ever was?
> WOW!
> ...



Erm... that sign is actually in the United States...


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## MartianTom (Nov 3, 2011)

n brown said:


> what any of this has to do with wild camping is beyond me,although my wife says i am quite thick,but then she married me so i can't trust her judgement.too many of these threads end up like this,i'm going to try not to get sucked in again and stay on subject,whatever that was...?



I think it demonstrates the unique ability of human beings to be creative and spontaneous in their responses to a given subject matter - how the mind works to forge connections between disparate subjects and themes.

Either that or it's just people bending things around to fit in with what they really want to have a rant about...

It's like one of those puzzles... get from 'flowers' to 'grenade' in one move, without changing a single letter in the process...

I've got a friend like that.  You can be talking about anything at all: the weather, the Hadron Collider, the quality of underpants... and all of a sudden it's '...as for that bl**dy Cameron...' etc.


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## bill scouse (Nov 3, 2011)

It's like one of those puzzles... get from 'flowers' to 'grenade' in one move, without changing a single letter in the process...[/QUOTE]

 ok i give up. Whats the answer? 
                                            Bill


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## Admin (Nov 3, 2011)

****** Moderation Warning ******
I have had complaints about this thread, I will have to start deleting posts if this continues. Please be try and be good campers.


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## THE LITTLE MUTT (Nov 3, 2011)

*Maureenandtom..You hit the nail on the head*



maureenandtom said:


> What Little Mutt says has more than a ring of truth about it.
> 
> This is where he comes from. Urunga - Accommodation, Maps, Attractions & Events - Visit NSW   Bolton isn't going to compete, now is it?
> 
> ...



Thanks Maureenandtom..
After my little tirade yesterday I would like to post some observations, likes & dislikes from our 5 weeks touring in the UK & Europe.
Will start with the UK first.
LIKES..
I would have to say that the UK people are so friendly and obliging it was amazing. 
Your roads were in the top 3 countries we drove in and your drivers are the most patient and best we come across.
One thing that we will always remember is the pub food. You don't know how good you have got it. Best quality and value for money from Mousehole to Melrose.
Every inn had local produce as fresh as. Special mentions to Ivy Bridge, Barnstable and the Kilton on Mere in Cheshire.(All were very hospitable and are Wild camping sites).
Another huge tick is your public toilets. How clean can you get them. They were five star everywhere we stopped. The pride the cleaners have in there work is all there to see.
The city of London was the cleanest I have ever been to. Take a bow.
DISLIKES..
Motorhomes are not very welcomed in some spots. In Europe they bend over backwards to get you money into the town.
The public car parks that have height barriers across them during the day with no one in them.
We would have love to stop on the coast road around Hastings way, but every town had these barriers. 
Maybe the local businesses should have a say as they all missed out on our money.
OBSERVATIONS..
I notice some negative comments about your lovely country and the notion that it is better in Australia. Believe me, don't hold your breath. 
I know lots of Aussie who love it here.


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## coolasluck (Nov 3, 2011)

Well just to wind myself up i watched Panorama this evening to watch what i already knew was rife in this country,what a mess.As soon as i give up paying my taxes all the better and no more funding of assylum seekers and pretend disability seekers who are having the time of their lives.One assylum seeker who was claiming benefits in differant names bleated "you dont know how hard it is ,everything is expensive"
In future i will be seeking cash in the hand work and enjoying the beauty this country has to offer whilst leaving the poor old tax payer and do-gooders to fund our corrupt system that has enjoyed 25 years of bliss and enjoyment for those with whom like to fraudulantly claim tax payers money.

It beggers belief that the goverment has not stamped down on this problem that is hemmoraging billions of tax payers money whilst at the same time screw over alarm clock britain.
Then again you cant be suprised after all we have had our country ran by crooks for well over 30 odd years now.
Roll on fulltiming,where i can leave some of it behind.


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## scotsy (Nov 3, 2011)

As someone who lives only about 6 miles south of Bolton (town not city) i can't believe the way the OP spoke about the town seemingly just because he got a parking ticket FOR PARKING ILLEGALLY :idea-007:

It makes no difference wether it was Sunday morning or any other time/day, the warden (ranger?) was doing the job he/she was paid to do. There is plenty of free parking available around the town with a short walk if you don't want to pay 

As for the way this thread decended into a verbal diatribe of insults..........................

I've lived here in Leigh for 57 years and i always enjoy a trip to Bolton, especially the road through Daubhill :ninja:

Ian

OP please enjoy the rest of your stay in the *UNITED* KINGDOM


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## bigpieeater (Nov 4, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> Gosh, it's threads like this that certainly bring out the best of the British!
> 
> Or is that the worst?
> 
> ...



This may interest you Tom, it may help with your rather clouded view on numbers. 
Why not add up the last 40 years worth of immigrants? It will be a few more than your 206!
Then, read through this...

Border officials have lost track of 124,000 asylum seekers and migrants - a population the size of Cambridge, according to report by MPs.

UK Border Agency figures show the number of cases "lost" has tripled from 40,500 in March.

The Commons Home Affairs Select Committee's report said the so-called controlled archive was being used as a "dumping ground" for cases the agency has given up on.

It lists around 98,000 cases where asylum seekers cannot be found and the agency has no idea whether or not the applicant are still in the UK, legally or otherwise.

The total includes around 26,000 migrants who have overstayed their visas or who have been refused an extension of leave, such as students.


The committee said: "Whilst we appreciate the difficulties involved in tracing people with whom the agency have lost contact, usually for a period of several years, it is clear that the controlled archive has become a dumping ground for cases on which the agency has given up.

"From 18,000 files in November 2010, the archive now contains 124,000 files, roughly equivalent to the population of Cambridge."

Keith Vaz, the committee's chairman, said: "The UK Border Agency is still not providing the efficient, effective service that Parliament expects.

"The Prime Minister himself recently called for members of the public to provide intelligence on immigrants.

"There is little point in encouraging people to do this if the border agency continues to fail to manage the intelligence it receives or to keep track of those who apply to stay."

Shadow immigration minister Chris Bryant said: "These numbers betray a shocking failure at the heart of this Tory-led Government."


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## bigpieeater (Nov 4, 2011)

Phil said:


> ****** Moderation Warning ******
> I have had complaints about this thread, I will have to start deleting posts if this continues. Please be try and be good campers.



I wonder if the complaints came from the people who still have their in the sand.
It does seem a shame that, a good healthy debate gets removed all the time when someone who has a strong belief in the topic is penalised because of the 'PC Brigade'


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## bigpieeater (Nov 4, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> Erm... that sign is actually in the United States...



BUT, isn't the date still the same in the USA as it is in the UK?
Yes, I believe it is, it is 2011 here as it is there!!!
WAKEY WAKEY!!


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## MartianTom (Nov 4, 2011)

coolasluck said:


> As soon as i give up paying my taxes all the better and no more funding of assylum seekers and pretend disability seekers who are having the time of their lives.



So, how's the NHS going to get paid for?  State schooling?

I know... let's privatise them all.  Then we could have colostomies brought to you by MacDonald's and geography taught to you by NewsCorp.


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## bigpieeater (Nov 4, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> So, how's the NHS going to get paid for?  State schooling?
> 
> I know... let's privatise them all.  Then we could have colostomies brought to you by MacDonald's and geography taught to you by NewsCorp.



Don't know if you managed to get your head from out of the sand last night, but, did you watch Panorama last night?
Or is that full of lies too?


----------



## MartianTom (Nov 4, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> I wonder if the complaints came from the people who still have their in the sand.



Did you complain, then?  Why do you assume the complaints were about you?  They may have been about 'wishy-washy liberals'.



bigpieeater said:


> It does seem a shame that, a good healthy debate gets removed all the time when someone who has a strong belief in the topic is penalised because of the 'PC Brigade'



Belief... hm... that's an interesting word.  People say 'I believe...' this and 'I believe...' that.  It's what that person believes, and it may be a belief that is shared by many others.  Some people believe that it is right to kill others in the name of their belief.  Others believe that forgiveness is the primary human virtue.  But beliefs are just that - they're not facts.  Same with opinions.  Hopefully, beliefs and opinions are things arrived at by a rational consideration of all the arguments put forward in support of or against them.  We rationalise.  Some of us, though, believe what it suits us to believe.  I can't remember who it was said 'You should never expect anyone to accept a belief if their salary depends upon them _not_ accepting it.'  Not everyone has such vested interests, of course.  Some of us believe one side of a particular argument because we only choose to listen to people who agree with that particular argument, or propound it.

It's not all about being 'PC' - that's so tiresome and lazy a dismissal.  It's another catch-all, like 'Health and Safety'.  Why does everyone who disagrees with a certain opinion or belief have to have their head in the sand, or be a member of the 'PC Brigade'?  Why can't they just be people who are prepared to keep open minds.

Good, healthy debates take place between people who can be open minded.  Try having a debate with, say, a communist party apparatchik or a member of the BNP and you'll see what I mean.  You'll get precisely nowhere.

Maybe Socratic argument would be a good tack to try with such people...


----------



## MartianTom (Nov 4, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> Don't know if you managed to get your head from out of the sand last night, but, did you watch Panorama last night?
> Or is that full of lies too?



Don't have a telly, mate, because it lost its soul years ago.  A BBC news programme doesn't necessarily mean, either, that you're getting the full, impartial picture.  You have to get your information from a lot of diverse sources for that.  Panorama used to be a decent programme, but it's more like info-tainment now.  Question Time is probably more like it.  Differing points of view.

Though, of course, some of us will still continue to listen only to what it suits us to believe...  For instance, if last night's Panorama had presented a 'state of the nation' picture that was completely the opposite of the one it did present, would you then have believed it?  Or would you now be on here going on about how the BBC's been taken over by the PC Brigade?


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## bigpieeater (Nov 4, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> Don't have a telly, mate, because it lost its soul years ago.  A BBC news programme doesn't necessarily mean, either, that you're getting the full, impartial picture.  You have to get your information from a lot of diverse sources for that.  Panorama used to be a decent programme, but it's more like info-tainment now.  Question Time is probably more like it.  Differing points of view.
> 
> Though, of course, some of us will still continue to listen only to what it suits us to believe...  For instance, if last night's Panorama had presented a 'state of the nation' picture that was completely the opposite of the one it did present, would you then have believed it?  Or would you now be on here going on about how the BBC's been taken over by the PC Brigade?



For instance, if last night's Panorama had presented a 'state of the nation' picture that was completely the opposite of the one it did present, would you then have believed it? Or would you now be on here going on about how the BBC's been taken over by the PC Brigade? 


....BUT IT WASN'T WAS IT?
You are typical of the type of person who is in denial aren't you, along with a lot of others who appear to support your 'leftie' views, not a friend of John H are you? An ex-teacher maybe?
Try running a Business in the UK these days, not easy I'll tell you.
Paying taxes to keep the lazy sods that sit and watch Jeremy Kyle everyday is not what I set out to do, but my fellow country men (leftie socialists) seem to like it!!

Now, where is that wall, I need to bang my head on it.


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## Northerner (Nov 4, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> Now, where is that wall, I need to bang my head on it.



That's what's done it! You've been banging your head on the wall too much!


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## MartianTom (Nov 4, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> For instance, if last night's Panorama had presented a 'state of the nation' picture that was completely the opposite of the one it did present, would you then have believed it? Or would you now be on here going on about how the BBC's been taken over by the PC Brigade?
> 
> 
> ....BUT IT WASN'T WAS IT?
> ...



No, it wasn't... but you've missed the point.  You seemed to be saying 'because it was on Panorama, it must be true.'  I was just pointing out that ain't necessarily so.

Who say's I'm a leftie?  Have I taken issue with any of your arguments? No... just the limited sources that you seem to be basing them on.  I asked a question: if everyone stopped paying income tax, how would the NHS and state schools receive funding?  You didn't answer that.  You just continued to go off on one about 'last night's Panorama', immigrants, Dole-ites, and so on.  

I read the papers - not just a selected few.  I have views that would put me on the left, and views that would put me on the right.  I often find myself agreeing with people I wouldn't normally agree with - and vice versa.  I'm prepared to accept that some of my views lay me open to charges of hypocrisy, contradiction, etc. I'm also prepared to accept I may be wrong, and to listen to any reasoned argument (as opposed to a rant) and perhaps change my own view as a result.  I don't take labels - if you choose to give me a label, that's up to you.

One thing I hope you will never be able to call me, though, is a bigot.  Bigots are people who are obstinate and intolerant of other points of view, and who insult anyone who disagrees with them. 

Basically, you could say, people who keep their ears closed and their heads buried.

How's that wall holding up?


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## the happy campers (Nov 4, 2011)

*bolton market*

my brother took us to bolton market  and when i parked the camper he said get a ticket as the wardens cover up the signs and hide and put tickets on cars . we sat in van and watch them do it   BE WARE


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## hippo (Nov 4, 2011)

I live near Bolton and, currently, Bolton town centre is going through a "make-over". Unfortunately, the neighbouring town of Bury has just completed it's make-over and, consequently, everyone is taking their money to the new shops and resources in Bury town. Lots of businesses have left Bolton in favour of Bury.  Can't really blame them for that.
So, it looks like all Bolton traffic wardens (or whatever they are called now) are raising the necessary funds to enable  the plan to go ahead in Bolton.  
As the originator of this thread suggests, leave Bolton well alone for the time being.  I can also confirm that he is right about the roads (please make your complaint known to Bolton County Council - (they may have a little money left after giving most of it to the immigrants to start up all the curry shops and mobile phone shops.)  
I digress.........

In short, try the outskirts of Bury.:blah:


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## bigpieeater (Nov 4, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> So, how's the NHS going to get paid for?  State schooling?
> 
> I know... let's privatise them all.  Then we could have colostomies brought to you by MacDonald's and geography taught to you by NewsCorp.



Seems like a good idea to me, the NHS are too busy with the immigrants operations anyway.


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## bigpieeater (Nov 4, 2011)

hippo said:


> I live near Bolton and, currently, Bolton town centre is going through a "make-over". Unfortunately, the neighbouring town of Bury has just completed it's make-over and, consequently, everyone is taking their money to the new shops and resources in Bury town. Lots of businesses have left Bolton in favour of Bury.  Can't really blame them for that.
> So, it looks like all Bolton traffic wardens (or whatever they are called now) are raising the necessary funds to enable  the plan to go ahead in Bolton.
> As the originator of this thread suggests, leave Bolton well alone for the time being.  I can also confirm that he is right about the roads (please make your complaint known to Bolton County Council - (they may have a little money left after giving most of it to the immigrants to start up all the curry shops and mobile phone shops.)
> I digress.........
> ...



Look out Hippo, people on here don't believe that we have immigrants opening curry shops and mobile phone shops...if you listen carefully, you will here the tap-tap of fingers on the keyboards of surburbia...


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## bigpieeater (Nov 4, 2011)

Northerner said:


> That's what's done it! You've been banging your head on the wall too much!



Yeah, right....whatever.
And your point is what exactly?


----------



## bigpieeater (Nov 4, 2011)

the happy campers said:


> my brother took us to bolton market  and when i parked the camper he said get a ticket as the wardens cover up the signs and hide and put tickets on cars . we sat in van and watch them do it   BE WARE



This lot won't believe you, you could announce it on the BBC, write it in the newspapers and will still tell you that this problem doesn't exist.


----------



## coolasluck (Nov 4, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> So, how's the NHS going to get paid for?  State schooling?
> 
> I know... let's privatise them all.  Then we could have colostomies brought to you by MacDonald's and geography taught to you by NewsCorp.





  You may as well,our poor NHS is creaking at the seems along with most other public services,the ever increasing population ,migrant or otherwise,means we as tax payers have to throw more and more money at our NHS e.t.c.
At a time when we are heading for yet another recession our goverment should be doing the same thing as us tax payers in saving money and being frugal,the goverment really needs to be putting a stop to the scroungers who are costing us a silly amount of money.But then again if i can avoid paying my taxes i wont really care will i,it wont matter to much to me at all,it will be instead( hopefully) if your working ,your problem,but then again you may not feel there is a problem.


----------



## coolasluck (Nov 4, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> This lot won't believe you, you could announce it on the BBC, write it in the newspapers and will still tell you that this problem doesn't exist.





I can assure you the problem is there and i realised recently that it is worse than you could possibly imagine.
It really is indemic. If people think the problem isnt as bad as has been sugested then they need to wake up,it absolutely is.


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## Northerner (Nov 4, 2011)

the happy campers said:


> my brother took us to bolton market  and when i parked the camper he said get a ticket as the wardens cover up the signs and hide and put tickets on cars . we sat in van and watch them do it   BE WARE



I simply do not believe this story. What did the wardens cover the signs with? Most parking restriction signs are on poles eight feet up! So did they bring ladders and put bags over the top of the signs? And what about the ones riveted to lamp post and to walls?

And if it's true, why didn't you photograph them covering up these signs as they're committing a criminal offence? Everyone has a camera these days on their phones!

And for all the unthinking conspiracy theory numpties who'll believe this nonsense, just think about this - if Bolton Council is encouraging its wardens to act illegally, each and every warden will have them over a barrel. They can never be sacked, whatever they do, because they'll simply threaten to report the council to the police. Just imagine what the papers would do with this story! 

And before anyone asks, I live in Bolton and park there regularly and neither I or any of my friends have ever come across wardens behaving illegally. They can be strict and ticket you for being five minutes late but that's legal!


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## bigpieeater (Nov 5, 2011)

coolasluck said:


> You may as well,our poor NHS is creaking at the seems along with most other public services,the ever increasing population ,migrant or otherwise,means we as tax payers have to throw more and more money at our NHS e.t.c.
> At a time when we are heading for yet another recession our goverment should be doing the same thing as us tax payers in saving money and being frugal,the goverment really needs to be putting a stop to the scroungers who are costing us a silly amount of money.But then again if i can avoid paying my taxes i wont really care will i,it wont matter to much to me at all,it will be instead( hopefully) if your working ,your problem,but then again you may not feel there is a problem.



What a fantastic response, well said.
I too, won't give a dam, I'll be long gone too, then listen to them all moaning on when it really does become their problem, now, where is my map of France! HA-HA-HA-HA!!


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## bigpieeater (Nov 5, 2011)

Northerner said:


> I simply do not believe this story. What did the wardens cover the signs with? Most parking restriction signs are on poles eight feet up! So did they bring ladders and put bags over the top of the signs? And what about the ones riveted to lamp post and to walls?
> 
> And if it's true, why didn't you photograph them covering up these signs as they're committing a criminal offence? Everyone has a camera these days on their phones!
> 
> ...



Yet another none believer!!
How do you get through life you lot?
You dont believe anything on TV, you don't believe the newspapers and now you don't believe your fellow motorhomers. Is there any wonder this country is finished?
Being run by Brussels, playing lap dog to Obama and laying out the 'welcome' mat to anyone who would like to enter is not my idea of a tiny island should conduct its self.
But then, you don't believe any of it do you? 
Obviously I don't know anything about you, but, you are either having a laugh (and doing a good job) or are completley deranged!


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## bigpieeater (Nov 5, 2011)

coolasluck said:


> I can assure you the problem is there and i realised recently that it is worse than you could possibly imagine.
> It really is indemic. If people think the problem isnt as bad as has been sugested then they need to wake up,it absolutely is.



I think we have the makings of the COMMON SENSE party here, just do reply on this lot voting!!


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## MartianTom (Nov 5, 2011)

Hope you got yourself a good private healthcare plan, BPE.  Keep eating them big pies, hitting your head against a wall and sending your blood pressure racing like that and your gonna need some urgent medical treatment pretty soon.  

Do you know why no one will ever engage with you or take you seriously?  It's because you brook no disagreement.  Anyone who challenges your point of view isn't just someone who holds a different opinion which they're entitled to hold.  No... they're _wrong_, end of story.  Because only you can be right.  Not only are they wrong, but because of it they're worthy of little except insult and abuse.  Kind of sounds like fundamentalism, really.  Not often a force for good in a world where truth is relative and 'facts' are often not what they might seem - depending on how far a person chooses to look beyond their own beliefs and prejudices.

Meanwhile... I'd better get my head back into today's Telegraph, Indy, Guardian and Times, and rip open the latest Spectator, Prospect and Week to see what's going on in the world.

Waste of time, really, I suppose - it'll all be in the tabloids (those doyens of objective reportage) and on next week's Panorama...


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## bigpieeater (Nov 5, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> Hope you got yourself a good private healthcare plan, BPE.  Keep eating them big pies, hitting your head against a wall and sending your blood pressure racing like that and your gonna need some urgent medical treatment pretty soon.
> 
> Do you know why no one will ever engage with you or take you seriously?  It's because you brook no disagreement.  Anyone who challenges your point of view isn't just someone who holds a different opinion which they're entitled to hold.  No... they're _wrong_, end of story.  Because only you can be right.  Not only are they wrong, but because of it they're worthy of little except insult and abuse.  Kind of sounds like fundamentalism, really.  Not often a force for good in a world where truth is relative and 'facts' are often not what they might seem - depending on how far a person chooses to look beyond their own beliefs and prejudices.
> 
> ...



Are you called MartianTom because you actually live on Mars?
You have no idea do you?
I would like to bet you have never run a business and therefore never had to deal with as much red tape as me, therefore never had to bang your head like me.
Maybe in the next life eh?
In the meantime, keep smiling at the rest of the world, they will simply smile back!


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## Northerner (Nov 5, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> Yet another none believer!!
> How do you get through life you lot?
> You dont believe anything on TV, you don't believe the newspapers and now you don't believe your fellow motorhomers. Is there any wonder this country is finished?
> Being run by Brussels, playing lap dog to Obama and laying out the 'welcome' mat to anyone who would like to enter is not my idea of a tiny island should conduct its self.
> ...



No, I'm not a non-believer, just an intelligent person who looks at the evidence and weighs it up! You on the other hand are told a ludicrous story about traffic wardens hiding the parking signs and then, when people have parked, jumping out and booking them! Read why I claim that this is nonsense! How did they hide the signs? Do you not know where parking signs are fixed and displayed?

The only thing worse than non-believers are the conspiracy nuts who'll believe every piece of idiocy that they read because they haven't the intellect to look at it calmly and rationally, mainly because they're the kind of paranoid person who wakes up every morning convinced that the entire world is out to screw them!

How you get through life is the thing that puzzles me. This country isn't perfect and none are. Have you been to France or Germany or Italy. Now Greece, that's a great place with real future! Comments such as 'This country's finished' just sum you up. How is it finished? My life and my business are just fine, if I get ill I've got the NHS which, despite odd problems is still very good, I can travel hundreds of miles on motorways without paying a king's ransom in tolls but what is even more important is that I live in a country where the people are protected from and separated from the government by an independent judiciary. I don't worry about the knock on the door in the early hours of the morning and being carted off by the secret police or being tried without a jury.

Is everything in your life as black as you paint it? God, it must be a miserable and depressing existence!


----------



## Northerner (Nov 5, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> I think we have the makings of the COMMON SENSE party here, just do reply on this lot voting!!


 
Actually, I think that he may have been taking the mick out of you but you can't work it out. Then again I remember that you also had a problem with working out what a pancake thrower was! Please, no more claims of intellectual superiority from you!


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## bigpieeater (Nov 5, 2011)

Northerner said:


> No, I'm not a non-believer, just an intelligent person who looks at the evidence and weighs it up! You on the other hand are told a ludicrous story about traffic wardens hiding the parking signs and then, when people have parked, jumping out and booking them! Read why I claim that this is nonsense! How did they hide the signs? Do you not know where parking signs are fixed and displayed?
> 
> The only thing worse than non-believers are the conspiracy nuts who'll believe every piece of idiocy that they read because they haven't the intellect to look at it calmly and rationally, mainly because they're the kind of paranoid person who wakes up every morning convinced that the entire world is out to screw them!
> 
> ...



I DON'T BELIEVE YOU !!!!!!:lol-053::lol-053::lol-049::lol-049:


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## Northerner (Nov 5, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> I DON'T BELIEVE YOU !!!!!!:lol-053::lol-053::lol-049::lol-049:



Of course you don't. Now go and lie down in a darkened room and try to think of something nice. I know that will be hard, but surely, there must be something that you're not wound up about?


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## bigpieeater (Nov 5, 2011)

Northerner said:


> Of course you don't. Now go and lie down in a darkened room and try to think of something nice. I know that will be hard, but surely, there must be something that you're not wound up about?



Nah, sorry, I still don't believe you!:lol-061:


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## kenspain (Nov 5, 2011)

My Spanish friends reading this have ask me to ask you lot if your all going to the pub now for a good old punch up if so is there any free camping :raofl::raofl::raofl::raofl:  Trying to tell then what all these naughty words mean is even hard for me coming from South London:lol-049::lol-049:


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## n brown (Nov 5, 2011)

all this talk of pies is making me hungry,so i'm going to fry some onions and add casserole steak,dash of vinegar,couple of oxos,teaspoon of cumin,cover in waterand seaon,pop in the oven gas mk 4 and cook for hours until the meat starts disintegrating,put in a shortcrust pastry case and cook in a hot oven,then eat until thoroughly cheered up.works for me!
 i know this is beside the point but i forgot the point again


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## n brown (Nov 5, 2011)

incidentally for those of you who can spare a glance away from the bloody telly and the newspapers,the outside world is looking particularly lovely at the moment,all the colours changing on the trees,kids running and kicking up the fallen leaves[i know they're only practising kicking oap s in the head,but still a charming sight]


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## bigpieeater (Nov 5, 2011)

n brown said:


> all this talk of pies is making me hungry,so i'm going to fry some onions and add casserole steak,dash of vinegar,couple of oxos,teaspoon of cumin,cover in waterand seaon,pop in the oven gas mk 4 and cook for hours until the meat starts disintegrating,put in a shortcrust pastry case and cook in a hot oven,then eat until thoroughly cheered up.works for me!
> i know this is beside the point but i forgot the point again



At last, someone with a sense of humour:banana:


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## bigpieeater (Nov 5, 2011)

n brown said:


> incidentally for those of you who can spare a glance away from the bloody telly and the newspapers,the outside world is looking particularly lovely at the moment,all the colours changing on the trees,kids running and kicking up the fallen leaves[i know they're only practising kicking oap s in the head,but still a charming sight]



I like that too, maybe a special invite for you to join motorhome365, we are a friendly bunch who enjoy a bit of banter, not a bunch of OAP's with nothing better to do than, well, disagree with the bleeding obvious!!


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## paganplasma (Nov 6, 2011)

*travel in britain*

Hi,We have done a lot of travelling with our motor home in France and Brittany they have aires to stay over night on the motor ways and N rds ,and most towns have parking for motor homes with a born for water and waste, some super markets allow motor homes over night parking as they do not have barriers and a lot of villages have motor home points for water and wast as they know you may stop to buy food and goody's, the children always say hallow  and are polite, parking is mostly free at seaside towns and villages even towns are mainly free parking ,We believe a lot of this is because the French police do not allow pikys/tinkers/travellers /gipsy s, what ever you wish to call them ,to do what ever they like ,they have their own places to stay while on their travels and not allowed to create mess of any sort ,and they know that the police will come down on them with no mercy so they behave themselves ,and every one has a nice time,but in Britain the opposite is allowed to happen , we have infective police ,corrupted councils and non existent tourism policy, motor homing is big business in Europe just ask the ferry operators ,but in England the authority's cannot  provide the same facility's because the lefty's and liberals  do not want right minded people to enjoy themselves in England,you will probably find motor home tourism is mainly outgoing from Britain as opposed to incoming if you checked with the ferry's,thank you.


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## Northerner (Nov 6, 2011)

paganplasma said:


> Hi,We have done a lot of travelling with our motor home in France and Brittany they have aires to stay over night on the motor ways and N rds ,and most towns have parking for motor homes with a born for water and waste, some super markets allow motor homes over night parking as they do not have barriers and a lot of villages have motor home points for water and wast as they know you may stop to buy food and goody's, the children always say hallow  and are polite, parking is mostly free at seaside towns and villages even towns are mainly free parking ,We believe a lot of this is because the French police do not allow pikys/tinkers/travellers /gipsy s, what ever you wish to call them ,to do what ever they like ,they have their own places to stay while on their travels and not allowed to create mess of any sort ,and they know that the police will come down on them with no mercy so they behave themselves ,and every one has a nice time,but in Britain the opposite is allowed to happen , we have infective police ,corrupted councils and non existent tourism policy, motor homing is big business in Europe just ask the ferry operators ,but in England the authority's cannot  provide the same facility's because the lefty's and liberals  do not want right minded people to enjoy themselves in England,you will probably find motor home tourism is mainly outgoing from Britain as opposed to incoming if you checked with the ferry's,thank you.



Corrupted councils, non-existent tourist policies? Oh dear, I hadn't realised why that was the reason we don't have aires. I always thought that it was because, compared to France we're a very tiny country where land costs are horrendous. I also thought that it may be because France and Spain, with their enormous size and much better weather are countries where tourism forms a much bigger part of the economy. But why just knock the U.K. for not having aires? What about Denmark, The Netherlands and Norway and Switzerland and a dozen other European countries? I also hadn't realised that all those horrible lefties and liberals were hell bent on making sure we don't enjoy ourselves! Funnily enough, France has always seemed much more lefty that Britain! What do they say about French cars? Made from old tin cans by communists!

And as for travellers or tinkers, the problem in the U.K. is enormous compared to France, mainly because the bulk of them are Irish for whom the U.K is a natural haven. How long do you think it would be before nice aires in British towns and villages became mini-Dale Farms?

I'm sorry, but I get tired of this constant knocking of the U.K. by people who seem totally blinkered to the facts and can only whinge about their own country. Yes, France has aires, because land costs peanuts, but it's only got aires where land is cheap. Have you tried driving along parts of the Mediterranean coast and trying to find somewhere to park, let alone an aire? Height barrier after height barrier and why is this? It's because these towns are not villages suffering from rural flight, which are desperate to get as many people as possible to use their shops, but expensive resorts where land is more expensive and where they simply cannot afford the risk of travellers lowering the tone.

Yes, France is generally a better country than the U.K for motorhoming but the reasons are mainly geographical and nothing whatsoever to do with 'corrupt councils' or non-existent tourist policies. I would suggest that you do a little research and you'll find that the U.K has very active tourist organisations that strive to increase tourism. Have you visited London and other popular tourist spots and seen the number of Chinese and Japanese and Russians and many other nationalities who flock to this country every year?

Finally, I really do object to accusations that the U.K. has corrupt councils. They may not be perfect but there is no endemic corruption in the U.K. and I would challenge you to provide some evidence for your accusation. In any country, France included, you will always turn up the odd bad apple, but the system in the U.K where, for instance, councillors must declare any interest in any planning decisions, is designed to stamp out any attempts at corruption. Yes, it may have happened thirty years ago but we only know that it happened because they were caught (T. Dan Smith and Poulson come to mind). Things have moved on since then with much tighter regulation.


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## Pollik (Nov 6, 2011)




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## bigpieeater (Nov 6, 2011)

paganplasma said:


> Hi,We have done a lot of travelling with our motor home in France and Brittany they have aires to stay over night on the motor ways and N rds ,and most towns have parking for motor homes with a born for water and waste, some super markets allow motor homes over night parking as they do not have barriers and a lot of villages have motor home points for water and wast as they know you may stop to buy food and goody's, the children always say hallow  and are polite, parking is mostly free at seaside towns and villages even towns are mainly free parking ,We believe a lot of this is because the French police do not allow pikys/tinkers/travellers /gipsy s, what ever you wish to call them ,to do what ever they like ,they have their own places to stay while on their travels and not allowed to create mess of any sort ,and they know that the police will come down on them with no mercy so they behave themselves ,and every one has a nice time,but in Britain the opposite is allowed to happen , we have infective police ,corrupted councils and non existent tourism policy, motor homing is big business in Europe just ask the ferry operators ,but in England the authority's cannot  provide the same facility's because the lefty's and liberals  do not want right minded people to enjoy themselves in England,you will probably find motor home tourism is mainly outgoing from Britain as opposed to incoming if you checked with the ferry's,thank you.



Very well said. HOWEVER, expect some flack from some narrow minded individuals on here, take a look at motorhome365, there you can have your say, enjoy some banter and have some fun without the frowns from this lot.


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## bigpieeater (Nov 6, 2011)

Northerner said:


> Corrupted councils, non-existent tourist policies? Oh dear, I hadn't realised why that was the reason we don't have aires. I always thought that it was because, compared to France we're a very tiny country where land costs are horrendous. I also thought that it may be because France and Spain, with their enormous size and much better weather are countries where tourism forms a much bigger part of the economy. But why just knock the U.K. for not having aires? What about Denmark, The Netherlands and Norway and Switzerland and a dozen other European countries? I also hadn't realised that all those horrible lefties and liberals were hell bent on making sure we don't enjoy ourselves! Funnily enough, France has always seemed much more lefty that Britain! What do they say about French cars? Made from old tin cans by communists!
> 
> And as for travellers or tinkers, the problem in the U.K. is enormous compared to France, mainly because the bulk of them are Irish for whom the U.K is a natural haven. How long do you think it would be before nice aires in British towns and villages became mini-Dale Farms?
> 
> ...



Told you!!:mad2:


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## northernspirit2001 (Nov 6, 2011)

...dont pay it. I got a parking ticket in Italy qite a few years ago and there was no follow up, bet it works same here too.


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## maureenandtom (Nov 7, 2011)

THE LITTLE MUTT said:


> Thanks Maureenandtom..
> After my little tirade yesterday I would like to post some observations, likes & dislikes from our 5 weeks touring in the UK & Europe.
> Will start with the UK first.
> LIKES..
> ...



Little Mutt,

Thanks for your kind words about the UK.   You'd think from some of the comments on the site that you'd condemned us, all of us.  

Maybe  you're rich and the cost doesn't matter to you but I assume you're just like the rest of us and the cost of coming here was a major, perhaps only a once in a lifetime, expense needing much saving.  I do truly hope that you feel the money was well spent and I hope you go back to Oz with good, as well as bad, stories to tell.


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## THE LITTLE MUTT (Nov 7, 2011)

maureenandtom said:


> Little Mutt,
> 
> Thanks for your kind words about the UK.   You'd think from some of the comments on the site that you'd condemned us, all of us.
> 
> Maybe  you're rich and the cost doesn't matter to you but I assume you're just like the rest of us and the cost of coming here was a major, perhaps only a once in a lifetime, expense needing much saving.  I do truly hope that you feel the money was well spent and I hope you go back to Oz with good, as well as bad, stories to tell.



Hi maureenandtom.
Not rich at all and have struggle for years to save for this trip. We will take back 99.9% fantastic memories.
Thanks for having us.


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## Rubbertramp (Nov 9, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> In other words, clearly you know how to run a country.



The Daily Mash - Internet weirdos take first step towards running country


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## maingate (Nov 9, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> At last, someone with a sense of humour:banana:



How would you know ?  :lol-061:


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## bigpieeater (Nov 9, 2011)

maingate said:


> How would you know ?  :lol-061:



Dear Phil The Moderator
I am so sorry that I feel the need to reply to this message, especialy after your PM to me, you will see that, Mr Maingate has decided to add some extra fuel to the dying embers, it is obvious that he has too much time on his hands.

So, Mr Maingate, may I suggest that you keep your childish comments to yourself, unless of course you would like me to park my 'Van on your empty head!


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## John H (Nov 20, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> You are typical of the type of person who is in denial aren't you, along with a lot of others who appear to support your 'leftie' views, not a friend of John H are you? An ex-teacher maybe?
> Try running a Business in the UK these days, not easy I'll tell you.
> Paying taxes to keep the lazy sods that sit and watch Jeremy Kyle everyday is not what I set out to do, but my fellow country men (leftie socialists) seem to like it!!
> 
> Now, where is that wall, I need to bang my head on it.



Just catching up on what has been going on while I've been away - and its good to see that there are still plenty of people willing to take you on in my absence. I won't attempt to add to the debate - I think all the relevant points have been made (and of course ignored by you) but I would like to know on what basis you think that "leftie socialists" (a phrase you regard as an insult but which I wear with pride) seem to approve of the Jeremy Kyle Show. It seems you have been banging your head too violently. I do agree with you on one thing, however, and that is that free speech (within the law) should be allowed; those who don't like what is said have the freedom not to read it. But no doubt you will continue to claim that it the "lefties" who are trying to stop you spouting your nonsense even though the reality is that we are happy for you to continue to demonstrate what an idiot you are. Happy travels :raofl:


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