# Battery headache



## karakachan (Oct 7, 2017)

I have been trying to do some planning regarding what solar setup I will go for.The choice of panels is not as taxing as which batteries to go for.
I first set my mind on agm 12v,then after reading on here and other forums on the net,mainly seem to think that 6v lead acid is the way to go as it is generally thought that you can get more cycle life out of them.Been looking at Trojan and Crown.
I suppose there is cost factor and if you have room to put more than a couple of batteries in your vehicle,going back to the cost,I think you can build a similar sized bank of 6v or 12v for similar cost,that is for amp hours.
I will be full time when I do eventually get going.Brands is another headache.I know people put different petrol in their cars and show brand loyalty.My questions here are mainly aimed at full timers or near as dam it full timers, as they will know what system works best,especially in winter.
My funds are not endless but I'm hoping to cap it at about £700 ish...that's for panels,''or large panel'' and batteries,oh and an mppt controller..
I know this subject has been done more times than my granny burnt cakes but that's why I joined the forum...to ask what I don't know too much about..''you don't ask,you'll never know''
Thanks all


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## delicagirl (Oct 7, 2017)

buy the heaviest (weight wise) 12volt best batteries you can afford  - it will pay you in the long run.  Make sure all of your batteries, leisure and engine, are the same voltage and preferably the same make. Link them all together on a relay.   I believe Alpha batteries give us WC folks a significant discount - do a search on here.

What i have discovered in my last year of wilding is that one 100 solar panel is not enough to feed/fill my 2 leisure batteries.   i will be adding another solar panel in fue course and maybe a third leisure  battery. 

Be mindful of the physical weight of your new batteries  -   they weigh a  ton and will eat into your payload.


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## karakachan (Oct 7, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> buy the heaviest (weight wise) 12volt best batteries you can afford  -



Thanks for your input delicagirl,but the research I've done doesn't point to 12v batteries being the heaviest ,and are said not to be a truly DEEP CYCLE battery.Maybe agm's are classed  as deep cycle and are seen as far superior than the 12v LA type.
The panel I was contemplating was the 260w,and was even thinking about getting the LG 300w as the efficiency is far and away better than the basic panel...this is why I put this question on here hoping that someone like your good self came up with suggestions.
Battery bank wise,I was looking to have a capacity of around the 250/300 AH ..I'm sure more will come along and put me right or give me an incline as to what works for them year round.
Maybe it's because it's saturday  and all have got the day off...lol
And thanks for your reply


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## Livotlout (Oct 7, 2017)

*Trojan*

I can fully recommend Trojan batteries....my set up - 2x100watt Solar, 2xT105(225amp), Xantrex C40(PWM), 180amp Allbright Contactor(split Relay).
Now four years of use and no hook up....last weak S.G. readings still at max.
It is important that your controller is adjustable to suit the Trojan charging regime ie: 14.8 volt daily charge.. see their 22 page User Manual, also very important to follow their maintenance schedules.
Also, online they have some very good maintenance videos.
For some very good reading..HandyBob's Blog << Making off grid RV electrical systems work
Remember - Voltage Drop is your enemy.

Alec.


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## mrbigglesworth (Oct 7, 2017)

I would get a pair of Trojan t105s and as many  panels to fill your roof. If possible get a setup that you can angle to maximise power in the winter. I wouldn't be to fussed about a mppt controller, I believe your money would be better spent on more panels. 
I have two 2 t105s, 270w of panels, a mppt controller and a Sterling b-b charger. 

Mr B.


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## witzend (Oct 7, 2017)

When you or whoever fits the solar panels & battery have a  though to perhaps adding another of either later. I've always been a fan of Numax Batterys


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## colinm (Oct 7, 2017)

AandN recommend Varta LFD as being a good leisure battery.


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## trevskoda (Oct 7, 2017)

Bosch / varta car stop start batterys are as good as you will buy,with there silver frame tec they will hold almost full power for 5 years compared to so called les batterys which go down hill from day one,cost well they start at about £100 up.


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## witzend (Oct 7, 2017)

colinmd said:


> AandN recommend Varta LFD as being a good leisure battery.



They also have a excellent web site full of info on solar / batterys / chargers  etc well worth a look


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## trevskoda (Oct 8, 2017)

witzend said:


> They also have a excellent web site full of info on solar / batterys / chargers  etc well worth a look



Thats just blown most people clap trap talk out of the water,the bit about gel batterys is what i have been telling folk all along,also the use of gens which can damage electronic stuff was good reading.


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## harrow (Oct 8, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Thats just blown most people clap trap talk out of the water,the bit about gel batterys is what i have been telling folk all along,also the use of gens which can damage electronic stuff was good reading.



Yes not enough thought is given to duty cycle and protection, some of the items pictured have been overloaded, way past past their design limits.

I can fully understand people who don't have an electrical or electronics background not being aware of what's going on.

Always try to keep these electronic items cool.

:drive::drive::drive:


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## bartman (Oct 8, 2017)

witzend said:


> They also have a excellent web site full of info on solar / batterys / chargers  etc well worth a look



That's the most useful info re batteries I've come across for some time - so straightforward too.


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## maingate (Oct 8, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Take much of that with a pinch of salt. Some of their interpretations of the situation are misleading at best.



Only in your judgement. I would rather take the word of Alan whose knowledge is gained by running a successful business in motorhome repairs over someone who talks big but has no proven track record to back it up.

You accused me of talking rubbish a while back and were proved wrong by other members. Theoretical knowledge can be of little help without a practical grounding.

It really annoys me when a good, helpful bloke is pilloried by others. Particularly as he cannot answer back as he is not a member ..... not to mention that he is currently battling Cancer.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Oct 8, 2017)

hairydog said:


> *Take much of that with a pinch of salt*. Some of their interpretations of the situation are misleading at best.



Thanks for that excellent advice hairy one which I have taken on board as I do that with all of your posts.


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## maingate (Oct 8, 2017)

hairydog said:


> No, I was correct. You just raised a mob of misinformed people to support you.
> You tried to pillory me for being helpful.



I rest my case.


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## trevskoda (Oct 8, 2017)

And i thought it was just the irish who like a good fight.:hammer:better than watching telly any day though.


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## Fazerloz (Oct 8, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> And i thought it was just the irish who like a good fight.:hammer:better than watching telly any day though.



It makes me smile as well Trev which is a good thing as I battle cancer, which I am not going to mention.:lol-049:


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## trevskoda (Oct 8, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> It makes me smile as well Trev which is a good thing as I battle cancer, which I am not going to mention.:lol-049:



Sorry to here,i have noticed more folk seem to have some degree of it these days or is it that it was not spoken of in days of old,keep your chin up,regards trev.


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## Fazerloz (Oct 8, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Sorry to here,i have noticed more folk seem to have some degree of it these days or is it that it was not spoken of in days of old,keep your chin up,regards trev.



Can't get my chin any higher without getting a crick in my neck Trev.


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## trevskoda (Oct 8, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> Can't get my chin any higher without getting a crick in my neck Trev.



Talk of a crick in you neck,i have had the same going on four days with back pain,must have got it lifting the floor boards to get money for newish car.:lol-053::wave:


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## karakachan (Oct 9, 2017)

Well thanks to all for their thoughts on batteries and panel set up.The setup will be in a 7.5t Merc.....regarding the battery 2 battery charger,would that mean that I would need the 24v to 12v charger,rather than the 12v to 12v one.I'm still swaying towards the 6v lead acid batteries,yes I know you need 2 but the cost difference is not much between them and so called sealed 12v's.
Regarding controllers,would I be right in saying that if I put 500w,[2x 250w] of panels on that a 40a controller would be needed.

There will be many more questions coming your way from me regarding evereything and anything.....

But I must insist on everyone putting their guns back in the holsters...LOL

Thanks for everything


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## delicagirl (Oct 9, 2017)

karakachan said:


> Well thanks to all for their thoughts on batteries and panel set up.The setup will be in a 7.5t Merc.....regarding the battery 2 battery charger,would that mean that I would need the 24v to 12v charger,rather than the 12v to 12v one.I'm still swaying towards the 6v lead acid batteries,yes I know you need 2 but the cost difference is not much between them and so called sealed 12v's.
> Regarding controllers,would I be right in saying that if I put 500w,[2x 250w] of panels on that a 40a controller would be needed.
> 
> There will be many more questions coming your way from me regarding evereything and anything.....
> ...





lol  !!!   the infighting re "who knows best" on here....  is sometimes comical......  i have been the recipient of a lot of helpful information on here and some of it was conflicting. At the end of the day you read peoples posts and decide for yourself whose opionion you trust and who you dont.


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## wildebus (Oct 9, 2017)

karakachan said:


> Well thanks to all for their thoughts on batteries and panel set up.The setup will be in a 7.5t Merc.....regarding the battery 2 battery charger,would that mean that I would need the 24v to 12v charger,rather than the 12v to 12v one.I'm still swaying towards the 6v lead acid batteries,yes I know you need 2 but the cost difference is not much between them and so called sealed 12v's.
> Regarding controllers,would I be right in saying that if I put 500w,[2x 250w] of panels on that a 40a controller would be needed.
> 
> There will be many more questions coming your way from me regarding evereything and anything.....
> ...



If you have 2 12V batteries, you would still use a 12V to 12V charger as you connect them up in parallel which makes them appear electrically as one larger 12V battery.
If you went for 2 6V batteries, you would connect up in series so they appear as a single 12V battery.


Same principles with solar panels.  You have 2 x 250W panels ... connect in series, you double the voltage but the current stays the same.  Connect in Parallel, the voltage stays the same but the current doubles.
Which is best way depends on panel spec and the controller you get. It is not just the current rating that needs consideration e.g. the Victron controller admin is selling is the 100/30 model - that means the voltage input can be no more than 100V, and the current input no more than 30A, but also on that one, the maximum array power is 440W (max power is a factor on all controllers and the capacity is not always easily found). 
A 500W array will need a decent controller.


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## skippy (Oct 9, 2017)

*battery headache*

Here,s my £,s worth.
 It all depends on your power usage. Varta lfd range are for light to moderate use only as per their battery information site,
 My usage is 50-100 amps daily 4 x 6 v=490 amps 2 x 100 watt solar 
 Victron charge controller 2 x sterling battery to battery 60 amp chargers.
Recently rewired panels  to series to get the most of uk low light charging conditions,  had a conversation with overland vehicle owners and both of us wished we had gone for 24v hab electrics to reduce power consumption.
 Add up your estimated daily usage plus allow reasonable margin then plan from there.


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## chrismilo (Oct 9, 2017)

karakachan said:


> I have been trying to do some planning regarding what solar setup I will go for.The choice of panels is not as taxing as which batteries to go for.
> I first set my mind on agm 12v,then after reading on here and other forums on the net,mainly seem to think that 6v lead acid is the way to go as it is generally thought that you can get more cycle life out of them.Been looking at Trojan and Crown.
> I suppose there is cost factor and if you have room to put more than a couple of batteries in your vehicle,going back to the cost,I think you can build a similar sized bank of 6v or 12v for similar cost,that is for amp hours.
> I will be full time when I do eventually get going.Brands is another headache.I know people put different petrol in their cars and show brand loyalty.My questions here are mainly aimed at full timers or near as dam it full timers, as they will know what system works best,especially in winter.
> ...



I've heard or a headache enough for an elephant but not a battery :hammer: this might help


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## karakachan (Oct 9, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> lol  !!!   the infighting re "who knows best" on here....  is sometimes comical......  i have been the recipient of a lot of helpful information on here and some of it was conflicting. At the end of the day you read peoples posts and decide for yourself whose opionion you trust and who you dont.



Seems to happen all over the world on forums,no different here in BG,just different subjects like ''will the cop take a bribe or not'',kind a thing..and if the answer is yes...it's..''how much''..lol.
And yes it does go off.

Going back to skippy's reply,I take it that you do wc in winter and you do have need of the b2b charges to keep your batteries up to spec?..I'm assuming you have 2, b2b chargers because you have 2 banks of 6v batteries..is there any reason you don't have bigger panels,or is that false economy..not that they are that expensive,just asking as you do.

I'm understanding the concept of series/parallel with batteries,what advantage/disadvantage do you get linking up panels,series/parallel..

Plain english please..lol


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## Deleted member 56601 (Oct 9, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Forgot this bit!
> You don't charge the 6v batteries separately. They are paired into 12v batteries, wired in series, and are charged as a single battery. *All lead acid cells are 2v.* Wire three in series and you have a 6v battery. Wire 6 in series and it's 12 v, and so on.
> Discharging kills batteries, so you should never have a 'spare' battery bank for when the main bank runs down. Instead, wire them together to stop the bank running down in the first place!



I think you'll find the nominal voltage for a single cell is 2.15v, giving a fully charged 6 cell battery an approx voltage of 12.8; if they were 2v the fully charged voltage would be 12v.


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## skippy (Oct 9, 2017)

*battery headache*

Hi yes I love parking up in cold or snowy weather for 3-4 days in one place I have compressor fridge and diesel heating so both on most of the time. I have 4x6v yuasa pro spec batteries in series and parrallel configuration with battery isolator to split each pair of 12v banks each charged by 1 b to b at 60 amps max.Move every couple of days 1 to 1/2hour run then let solar do its job .
 Nil campsites for me.


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## 10para (Oct 9, 2017)

*Lithium*



skippy said:


> Hi yes I love parking up in cold or snowy weather for 3-4 days in one place I have compressor fridge and diesel heating so both on most of the time. I have 4x6v yuasa pro spec batteries in series and parrallel configuration with battery isolator to split each pair of 12v banks each charged by 1 b to b at 60 amps max.Move every couple of days 1 to 1/2hour run then let solar do its job .
> Nil campsites for me.


It seems you've got the same power hungry fridge and heating system , but in struggling with 3 x varta lfd 90 ah batteries, I'm thinking an eza lithium or a normal lithium battery with relevant accessories to make the system safe.

How much lithium amp s would be on par with your battery bank, which sounds it's doing a great and same job as what I want to achieve..


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## skippy (Oct 10, 2017)

No idea about lithium .Not something for me, to mean to pay their prices .My batts are 4 years old still performing great but monitored regularly only downside they need topping up occasionally about 5 ltrs in 4 years they are equalised regularly.


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## Robmac (Oct 10, 2017)

hairydog said:


> .........Unfortunately, we'll now hear about all the compressor fridges that run off fairy dust and how solar panels power them all winter. It's almost true: those ones have a handle on the back that the tooth fairy winds between her tooth collection trips.i



Well actually I have just run a 60 litre compressor fridge for 5 days and 5 nights off of 2 Trojan T25's with no solar, no hookup and did not run the engine.

Admittedly, apart from that, I only ran the lighting and charged my phone, but once I have solar, I am sure that I will be fully self contained especially as I only usually stay in one place for 2 or 3 days.

Many people who went to the recent Elm Cottage meet can vouch for that.


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## wildebus (Oct 10, 2017)

Robmac said:


> Well actually I have just run a 60 litre compressor fridge for 5 days and 5 nights off of 2 Trojan T25's with no solar, no hookup and did not run the engine.
> 
> Admittedly, apart from that, I only ran the lighting and charged my phone, but once I have solar, I am sure that I will be fully self contained especially as I only usually stay in one place for 2 or 3 days.
> 
> Many people who went to the recent Elm Cottage meet can vouch for that.



Solar will be the key for you there I think to go unlimited 

With my 200W Array feeding the 200Ah Bank I found the Compressor Fridge/Freezer (Waeco CRX-50) ran 24/7 from when I turned it on in April to when I turned it off in November irrespective of if I used the vehicle or not (I kept ice cubes in the freezer and they never lost their shape).
I'll likely be buying another Waeco for the new van, but even if not a Waeco, it WILL be a fairy-dust powered Compressor model :idea-007:


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## Robmac (Oct 10, 2017)

wildebus said:


> Solar will be the key for you there I think to go unlimited
> 
> With my 200W Array feeding the 200Ah Bank I found the Compressor Fridge/Freezer (Waeco CRX-50) ran 24/7 from when I turned it on in April to when I turned it off in November irrespective of if I used the vehicle or not (I kept ice cubes in the freezer and they never lost their shape).
> I'll likely be buying another Waeco for the new van, but even if not a Waeco, it WILL be a fairy-dust powered Compressor model :idea-007:



Mine's a Vitrifrigo, very similar to the Waeco.

Yes, I'll be adding the solar shortly, connected to a Ring battery to battery charger which also serves an an MPPT controller.

Many say that solar is useless in winter, but there are many sunny days during the winter, so some benefit will be gained. I have sat on the pier at Toscaig in shorts and a tee shirt in January before now.


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## Robmac (Oct 10, 2017)

hairydog said:


> The best measure of how well a solar panel will work is the UV Index. If you had got sunburned sitting there in January, you'd have a valid point.



Well I wouldn't say burned, but certainly got a bit of a tan.


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## Robmac (Oct 10, 2017)

hairydog said:


> So you managed to run a load of about 1.6A for 120 hours. That would take 192AH: enough to bring a 250AH deep cycle battery from full to as low as it is prudent to go.
> 
> What happened next? You would need to drive for at least ten hours (possibly 20) to replace that much power.
> 
> Compressor fridges are three times as efficient as absorption ones. So if you used 2,304 watt hours of power, running on gas you'd have used 6,912 watt hours in those 5 days. That's about 530 grammes of gas, costing 57p.



I deliberately didn't buy a gas fridge as I have never had one that works efficiently (bearing in mind that I have had 16 boats most of which had 3 way fridges).

Are you assuming that the fridge is running permanently? It does cut in and out on a thermostat.

Incidentally, I only ran the van for a run of about 4 hours since my previous trip, when it had a similar workout on the fridge.

But, quote me all of the figures and science that you like, I am merely telling you what happened.


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## karakachan (Oct 13, 2017)

On the subject of batteries,does Alpha batteries give a full 15% off everything,to full members, or is it a ''up to 15%''...bit like the telecom companies when quoting internet speeds,and we all know what that means.
Cheers


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## wildebus (Oct 13, 2017)

karakachan said:


> On the subject of batteries,does Alpha batteries give a full 15% off everything,to full members, or is it a ''up to 15%''...bit like the telecom companies when quoting internet speeds,and we all know what that means.
> Cheers


I have always got the 15% off the batteries at their website prices.
The only other type of item I have bought from them is Battery Chargers - those I don't think I got any money off as they have had a special discounted price (better than 15%) when bought with a battery.  Seems perfectly reasonable not to expect to be able to double up special deals so I was happy not to expect another 15% off.

Want a battery? Be a full member and get the deal. it is worth it just for that alone.  (Alpha were my preferred supplier before I joined here, so well happy to get an even better deal)


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## delicagirl (Oct 13, 2017)

Because of a van problem i recently was parked on a road for 7 days and only travelled about 2 miles in all that time. The skies were cloudy for most of the time, so i had to be cautious as to power consumption.   I did not use my water pumps at all and relied on bottled water.  I was astonished at how much more use i got out of my batteries.


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## Fazerloz (Oct 13, 2017)

karakachan said:


> On the subject of batteries,does Alpha batteries give a full 15% off everything,to full members, or is it a ''up to 15%''...bit like the telecom companies when quoting internet speeds,and we all know what that means.
> Cheers



When I rung them which was quite a while ago the discount was only on a certain range of batteries. Things could have changed.


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## karakachan (Oct 13, 2017)

wildebus said:


> I have always got the 15% off the batteries at their website prices.
> 
> 
> Want a battery? Be a full member and get the deal. it is worth it just for that alone.  (Alpha were my preferred supplier before I joined here, so well happy to get an even better deal)



I will become a full member when the time is right...I'm still living in BG at the moment so right now is not the time.
Thanks for the reply though.
K


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