# Full-timing



## MartianTom (Oct 17, 2011)

It's just something that's going through my head, that's all... the practicalities, the problems, the possibilities...

Hypothetically, then...

....I give up my rented flat and start to live full-time in my motorhome.  I don't have any other address I could use - no family address, anyway.  Technically, then, I'd have no fixed abode, so would have to set up a PO box for mail.  Practically the only mail I receive anyway is for household bills, which I would no longer have.  All my banking is done online - though of course I'd need some sort of address to register my accounts.  Would a PO box be sufficient for that?

Next, work.  I'm between jobs at the moment, having left my last one on health grounds.  I'm currently living on savings, and rent and council tax are swallowing that.  In seeking a new job, though, I'll need an address of some sort.  What then?  The alternative is to stay on the road, picking up casual work as and when, just to keep myself going.

I know, I know.... I'm just thinking aloud, really.  Maybe the whole thing is impractical.  But it would, on the other hand, save me a lot of money.  And I desperately need some radical change - not just another sideways shift.  I have no commitments - no mortgage, family, work ties, emotional anchors.

And I'm used to living a minimalist life.  Until recently, I lived in one room for six years and managed.  I don't have very much in the way of possessions.  Mostly, it's books.  Apart from that - a bed, some bookcases, a wardrobe, a desk, a fridge, a PC, a sofa, an easy chair.  That's it.  It can all go.

Like I said... just thinking aloud.... 

PS And damn... I'm sorry.  Did I just post this in the wrong forum?


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## David & Ann (Oct 17, 2011)

You could get a friend or a relative  let you use their address as a fixed abode. Now, that will enable you to get a job, make any claims you are entitled to and a host of other things you need to do. Just a thought. perhaps some other member will come up with a better idea.


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## Viktor (Oct 17, 2011)

Surely a friend MT would agree to allow you to use their address for mailing etc, and be agreeable to forward on
your mail to whatever address you tell them?


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## MartianTom (Oct 17, 2011)

Really... honestly... there isn't anyone I could ask.  That's the size of it.


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## caspar (Oct 17, 2011)

Would there be a problem in terms of not being able to prove residence at an address?


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## MartianTom (Oct 17, 2011)

caspar said:


> Would there be a problem in terms of not being able to prove residence at an address?



Exactly... that's what I'm thinking.  I suppose it depends how completely I want to go off the radar, so to speak.  Work would be the main problem.


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## Viktor (Oct 17, 2011)

What about this MT?   My UK Mail - Your Own UK Mailing Address, Better than a PO Box! Receive all types of mail at your own UK street address. mail forwarding service, uk mail forwarding service, Your mail is forwarded on to you, international mail forwarding, internation


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## MartianTom (Oct 17, 2011)

Viktor said:


> What about this MT?   My UK Mail - Your Own UK Mailing Address, Better than a PO Box! Receive all types of mail at your own UK street address. mail forwarding service, uk mail forwarding service, Your mail is forwarded on to you, international mail forwarding, internation



Thanks, Viktor.  That's interesting...


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## caspar (Oct 17, 2011)

Interesting until they check the Electoral Roll!

If you want to appear to have a local presence somewhere for the telephone try Flextel - they are very good and the cheapest out there I can find!


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## vwalan (Oct 17, 2011)

how do you get mail forwarded to you if you havent got an address to send it to. po box to po box?
you need an address for registering vehicles and driving licences . they need an address to send fines penalties etc.


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## Viktor (Oct 17, 2011)

These services give you a UK address but look after all your mail....you get something like, Apt. 7, 20 Chester Way, London WE2 and
it's then sent to a post office in a town near you for personal collection on a given date at your convenience.


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## John H (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi Tom

It is very difficult not having an address for all kinds of reasons - from TV licences to driving licences to bank acounts. I'm not sure what the answer is if there is no-one you can ask but unless you want to completely drop out of the system (think very carefully before you do that) then you really need to find someone who will let you use their address (and remember to get them to put you on the electoral roll so that you can argue it is your main abode).

Viktor's suggestion is an interesting one but because, in the example they give on thier website, the address includes a box number I doubt you would be able to use it for registering your vehicle, your bank account etc - anything for which you need to prove residence. The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that you need a friend in a house. Sorry not to be of more use.


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## Marilyn (Oct 18, 2011)

We plan to use my daughter's address when we go full time very soon.  I guess we're very lucky we have someone.  

I'm sure I read somewhere (perhaps on motorhome365.com ?) that a PO address is acceptable for registering a vehicle; surely the 'Apt. 7, 20 Chester Way' type address would be better still, wouldn't it?  The problem, as I see it, would be how much it would cost.  

There have been lengthy discussions on motorhome365.com about exactly this problem; perhaps a search on there would be worthwhile MartianTom?

Good luck!


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## John H (Oct 18, 2011)

Marilyn said:


> I'm sure I read somewhere (perhaps on motorhome365.com ?) that a PO address is acceptable for registering a vehicle; surely the 'Apt. 7, 20 Chester Way' type address would be better still, wouldn't it?  The problem, as I see it, would be how much it would cost.


Sorry to keep putting a dampner on it but a PO Box is only acceptable by DVLC if the vehicle is being registered in a company name and my reading of the website that Viktor recommended is that there will always be a box number preceeding the address - so, useful for some purposes but not for most. I'm still thinking about ways round it though!


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## John H (Oct 18, 2011)

Another thought (though, admittedly, I haven't thought through all of the implications) - if you haven't got a relative or friend who is able or willing to let you use their address, what about "buying" an address - for example, find a friendly B&B with whom you could come to an arrangement? I have to admit that, apart from this idea, I have found it difficult to see a way round the problem.


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## n brown (Oct 18, 2011)

you can continue to use your address by having your mail redirected,for up to 12 months,at about8 quid a month,use this time to find an alternative


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## vindiboy (Oct 18, 2011)

My van Insurance [ COMFORT} states quite clearly that the Insurers  have the right to inspect  my vehicle at my claimed address in the event of a claim and in addition they  also state that they  may want to see two utility bills in my name at the address I claim to live at  again in the event of a claim, so if you think you can get one over on the Insurance companies you should think again.Daughters address etc. may be OK for registering,and licencing a vehicle,Bank accounts etc, but not for Insurance, why not buy Full Time Insurance which is available ,Comfort do it, it costs more but at leas you have peace of mind if your van is stolen or written off.


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## MartianTom (Oct 18, 2011)

*Thanks*

Thanks everyone for your input.

Stuff to think on.

One way or the other, it seems, 'the system' has you! :scared:

Crazy though it probably sounds to most of you, the idea of falling off the radar completely is very appealing to me.


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## John H (Oct 18, 2011)

MartianTom said:


> Thanks everyone for your input.
> 
> Stuff to think on.
> 
> ...



I can understand your wish to drop off the radar but you will have to sacrifice, among other things, your bank account, your passport, your right to vote and your insurance - as well as not being able to  legally tax your vehicle. Maybe these things don't matter to you but think very carefully before you go down such a road. Whatever you do, I wish you good luck.


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## MartianTom (Oct 18, 2011)

John H said:


> I can understand your wish to drop off the radar but you will have to sacrifice, among other things, your bank account, your passport, your right to vote and your insurance - as well as not being able to  legally tax your vehicle. Maybe these things don't matter to you but think very carefully before you go down such a road. Whatever you do, I wish you good luck.



Thanks, John.  Yes, they do matter as things stand now.

Without the van, they wouldn't matter so much.  Maybe that'll go one day, too.


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## caspar (Oct 18, 2011)

Martian Tom,

I was wanting to pm you, but can't find a way to do so - may well be me being thick! If you are seriously interested in this, send me a pm!


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## David & Ann (Oct 18, 2011)

caspar said:


> Martian Tom,
> 
> I was wanting to pm you, but can't find a way to do so - may well be me being thick! If you are seriously interested in this, send me a pm!



Hi Caspar, I think Tom is unable to PM you as he is not a full Member. He must either be a full member OR find other means to make contact.


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## Canalsman (Oct 18, 2011)

Only full members can send/receive PMs


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## caspar (Oct 18, 2011)

In which case, if you're really serious, become a full member and then pm me!:dance:


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## John H (Oct 18, 2011)

If you're going to give him some of that "freeman" nonsense he might be better off  spending his £15 elsewhere! :lol-053:


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## vwalan (Oct 18, 2011)

hi. no address on passports though . you can get them over the counter so to speak. they arent the problem. as for having a utility bill you may never have that if you rent a room or just lodge there. so thats another thing sorted . can be difficult if you really do have nobody to do it. also best get someone in a cheap insurance area . used to get places that would do it for you. try a corner shop or something.


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## John H (Oct 18, 2011)

vwalan said:


> hi. no address on passports though .



But you need an address to get  or renew one, so they get you in the end!


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## caspar (Oct 18, 2011)

John H said:


> If you're going to give him some of that "freeman" nonsense he might be better off  spending his £15 elsewhere! :lol-053:



John,

As an aside, you might like to know that I am now fully qualified and dedicate my time solely, and out of choice, to giving free legal advice to underprivileged people who may not otherwise get access to such advice. I've just opened my second free charity and they are both proving hugely successful and we struggle to meet demand. I repect your comments from that time and know you want nothing to do with me, but mocking me is not ideal either!

As for the matter in question, if the OP really is serious I could sort most, if not all of these problems for him quite legally, but not if I cannot contact him.


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## John H (Oct 18, 2011)

caspar said:


> John,
> 
> As an aside, you might like to know that I am now fully qualified and dedicate my time solely, and out of choice, to giving free legal advice to underprivileged people who may not otherwise get access to such advice. I've just opened my second free charity and they are both proving hugely successful and we struggle to meet demand. I repect your comments from that time and know you want nothing to do with me, but mocking me is not ideal either!
> 
> As for the matter in question, if the OP really is serious I could sort most, if not all of these problems for him quite legally, but not if I cannot contact him.



Forgive me if I'm cynical in view of "advice" given by you in the past but if anyone wants free and sound legal advice then I would recommend the CAB as a first stop. If you are giving legal advice to the public I hope you are properly registered and insured for your own sake - I'd be interested in the details of your charities though.


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## caspar (Oct 18, 2011)

I wouldn't actually recommend the CAB as few of their members are fully qualified. There are other free sources of help with much more highly qualified staff who will do a better job much of the time - I actually pick up quite a few clients now from people who have been to the CAB and have been passed on to me. If you pm me your e-mail, I'll willingly supply you with details of the latest charity. The first was local, but the second is National. Just so you know we have a full Consumer Credit Licence, a CFS Licence, Cashflow Licence, full Professional, Personal and Trustees Indemnity Insurance. We do not need to be registered with the ICO for DPA purposes as we are exempt as a not for profit organisation. In fact I am funding the entire project from my own pocket, so we don't even accept donations from our clients or the public.

I admit past advice was not the best, but I think you'd be rather surprised now. In addition to this I am a site team member of three of the largest Consumer Based charities on the internet.

I have had people from Trading Standards (also representing the OFT), the ICO and the Money Advice Trust at my house going through everything and they could find not one single fault, not only with the setting up of the charities, but also the quality of posts on the internet. 

Surprising what a difference a compartively short time makes. Sorry if I came over strong saying your were mocking me, but you may now realise things have changed and I suspect you won't find many willing to fund the entire thing from their own pocket to help others. 

Let me have your e-mail and I'll send you details so you can look me up!


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## John H (Oct 18, 2011)

caspar said:


> I wouldn't actually recommend the CAB as few of their members are fully qualified. There are other free sources of help with much more highly qualified staff who will do a better job much of the time - I actually pick up quite a few clients now from people who have been to the CAB and have been passed on to me. If you pm me your e-mail, I'll willingly supply you with details of the latest charity. The first was local, but the second is National. Just so you know we have a full Consumer Credit Licence, a CFS Licence, Cashflow Licence, full Professional, Personal and Trustees Indemnity Insurance. We do not need to be registered with the ICO for DPA purposes as we are exempt as a not for profit organisation. In fact I am funding the entire project from my own pocket, so we don't even accept donations from our clients or the public.
> 
> I admit past advice was not the best, but I think you'd be rather surprised now. In addition to this I am a site team member of three of the largest Consumer Based charities on the internet.
> 
> ...



In that case, I wish you luck - and I will do as you say and pm you my e-mail address. Just a point about CAB - I was suggesting them as a starting point because if they do not have the ability to advise themselves they will (or should) know of the best place to find it.


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## Viktor (Oct 18, 2011)

<<In fact I am funding the entire project from my own pocket, so we don't even accept donations from our clients or the public.>>

:cheers:  :goodluck:


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## caspar (Oct 18, 2011)

Thank you for your kind wishes. At the rate the national charity has expanded in its early days we may need some luck. The local one is in the process now of being passed over to someone else to run. I agree that the CAB should be able to point you towards someone who should be able to help and usually can. Their main problem in our experience is that because they are the known one, their waiting lists can be prohibitive for those who need more immediate help. 

I'll look forward to your pm and e-mail, though may not pick it up until the middle of next week as we are away from then until Thursday 27th in our 'new' motorhome. I'll tell you a little more about myself privately and you'll then understand more where I'm coming from. 

Best wishes!


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## Sparks (Oct 18, 2011)

Post deleted


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## vwalan (Oct 19, 2011)

hello casper keep up the good work . glad you are ok. 
some do, some dont, we know who we are. cheers alan


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## Deleted member 967 (Oct 19, 2011)

Sparks said:


> Friends or relatives may be unwilling to let you use their address as it may affect council tax or family credit etc.



If you wish to be classed as residing there, then it could, but having *Full Timing insurance *  and using the address as a contact address (Vehicle reg, licences etc) does not.  I speak as someone who is doing it, not theorising about it.

Continuous  cruisers do not have a residence and cruise the waterways.  There are companies that provide a mail address for cruisers that do not involve post office boxes.  see Motorhome365 Fulltimers Forum where there is a full discussion on this topic by full timers.

Our contact address is our daughters address.


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## snowbirds (Oct 19, 2011)

*full timing*

Hi mt
I have dreamed about fulltiming all my life after reading a book in the 70,about it, there are a few web sites about it and i watched a tv program called Grey Nomads about three people who went on the road, worth watching.
Travelers do it most of the time and seem to get by,I think you would need to go south in the winter, I was staying on a camp
site in Milan in August this year and the owner said its full of traveler's in the winter months.
I think it all depends on your age, and health,But why not just try it for a year, you could do house sitting,there are a few sites on the web
good luck think it out well and let us know how you get on 

regards snowbirds  





MartianTom said:


> It's just something that's going through my head, that's all... the practicalities, the problems, the possibilities...
> 
> Hypothetically, then...
> 
> ...


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## Pollik (Oct 19, 2011)

The underlying problem is that society generally does not like people being or doing different.  It wasn't that long ago that they used to try curing left handedness.

Lots of interest groups are fighting for the right to be different from the norm, gay marriage for example, and to change society's views.  For so many people, "different" means "wrong".  

People who do not want a full time bricks and mortar address are, in the eyes of the authorities particularly, "wrong".

Like a few have expressed here, I have toyed with the idea of going off grid, just getting away from attempts to run my life for me.  Several friends have expressed similar dreams...in MHs, in boats.  But while things are as they are, it would be very difficult to do legally...and that is the nub of it, IMHO.  <Enter conspiracy theory mode>  It is all about control. </conspiracy theory mode>



Polly


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## caspar (Oct 19, 2011)

Personally I would love to try it, but short of home education for our daughter, which may also deprive her of some critical social contact and skills, it is not feasible. I would also be concerned about what would happen later in life when we wanted or needed to return to 'normal.'

For us, sadly, it is I think a dream, which is not to say we shouldn't make the most of our current circumstances to get out as much as possible now.


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## Pollik (Oct 19, 2011)

caspar said:


> Personally I would love to try it, but short of home education for our daughter, which may also deprive her of some critical social contact and skills, it is not feasible. I would also be concerned about what would happen later in life when we wanted or needed to return to 'normal.'
> 
> For us, sadly, it is I think a dream, which is not to say we shouldn't make the most of our current circumstances to get out as much as possible now.



It is a sensible thing to be concerned about, but quite a few parents do this sort thing in yachts.  I think their view on the socialising aspect for their children is that they are more likely to get a balanced view of the world...rather than the narrowmindedness that Britain seems often to nurture.  It is a difficult decision, though, and I don't think I would have chosen it for my family.



Polly


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## John H (Oct 19, 2011)

I agree very much with Pollik's point about society being suspicious of people who wany to be different - in my view it is intolerance of difference that is the root of most of the world's problems, but that is another story! 

I can also understand why you might be concerned, caspar, about home education and all I can say is that on our travels we have met many families in motorhomes, caravans, canal boats and yachts (and one in a land rover aiming to overland it to the Pacific!) who have been home-educating their children and in all cases they seemed to be well-balanced and socially adept children.

And now a question - for John T - how do you get over the things for which you need to prove residence? For example, the point that was made earlier about your insurers wanting the right to inspect your vehicle at your home address in the event of a claim and the fact that if you cannot SHOW a permanent residence in the UK then your state pension could be frozen at its present level (ie you would not be entitled to the annual increase). I know it is unlikely that anyone will question your address but I always like to prepare for the worst possible case and then I never get taken by surprise!

All the best
John


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## Deleted member 967 (Oct 19, 2011)

John H said:


> And now a question - for John T - how do you get over the things for which you need to prove residence? For example, the point that was made earlier about your insurers wanting the right to inspect your vehicle at your home address in the event of a claim and the fact that if you cannot SHOW a permanent residence in the UK then your state pension could be frozen at its present level (ie you would not be entitled to the annual increase). I know it is unlikely that anyone will question your address but I always like to prepare for the worst possible case and then I never get taken by surprise!
> 
> All the best
> John



Hi John

We are insured by Comfort paying the full timing premium and by doing so they do not require a UK residence only a contact address.  



> Long Term Touring & Full Timing
> 13. This policy is subject to the following conditions:
> Policyholders must maintain a full UK residence, either through ownership or long term rental agreement
> (of at least 9 months)* unless a full-timing rate has been agreed and paid*.
> ...



As for the insurers wanting the right to inspect your vehicle at your home address.  I have just re-read the Horizon policy booklet and there is no reference to this that I can see.  We are covered for not having a UK residence by paying the full timing premium. 

With regard to pensions we contacted them and informed them that we were giving up our home and going full time in the motorhome.  They told us they only needed a UK contact address and our payments would continue to be paid into our bank.  Our bank and credit card companies are fully aware of our status and we have no problems with them.  As regards to pensions being frozen this applies if you perminently move abroard.  It does not apply if you are living some of the year in the UK, even if you are moving about.  We continue to get pension increments and winter fuel allowance.

We have never tried to hide our status and even completed the 2011 census giving our motorhome registration number, Make and Model as our address.  We also provided our contact address for them to send the form to.  We stated that we were in Spain on census date and sent the form in at the end if May.

If you are honest about your status and are not trying to hide, I seen no problems with our way of life.


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## John H (Oct 19, 2011)

John Thompson said:


> If you are honest about your status and are not trying to hide, I seen no problems with our way of life.



Thanks for that very interesting and informative reply, John. Does it also apply to getting over the problem of not having an address for purposes of taxing the vehicle or for applying for a driving licence or passport? In other words, does coming clean entitle you to all the benefits of being a house-dweller?


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## MartianTom (Oct 19, 2011)

*Whew!!*

Crikey.... thanks, everyone, for your input.  Most appreciated.

Caspar - I hear you, and I really must pay my dues.  Thanks for your offer of help.  I may well be in touch soon.   I was at a low point the other night - we all get 'em - and just thought 'Sod it... I need to escape from this.'  

On a more practical level, I've decided to take a test run next year.  I won't be surrendering my address - just taking off for a few months.  I'm still not entirely sure where.  Europe is an obvious choice as I'm right on its doorstep.  But the US is also beckoning again.  I intend to use it as the hook for a book I want to write.  I've been writing for years - fiction, mainly - but this will be a travel book.  I've been writing up the journal from my recent two-week trip to East Anglia.  I'm only two days in, and it's already shaping up to be an extensive work - so a much longer trip will hopefully spawn something substantial!  It's as much an 'inner' journey as a geographical one - which, to my mind, is what the best travel writing is about.  My re-reading of Jonathan Raban, William Least Heat-Moon, Steinbeck, etc. is providing further impetus.  When this journal is finished, I'm going to try to get an agent, publisher or newspaper interested.  Maybe I'll wangle an advance to get me on my way!




Pollik said:


> The underlying problem is that society generally does not like people being or doing different.


...which is one of the reasons that I do not like society generally!  



John H said:


> Thanks for that very interesting and informative reply, John.


I'll second that.


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## Deleted member 967 (Oct 19, 2011)

John H said:


> Thanks for that very interesting and informative reply, John. Does it also apply to getting over the problem of not having an address for purposes of taxing the vehicle or for applying for a driving licence or passport? In other words, does coming clean entitle you to all the benefits of being a house-dweller?



Hi John

Yes it does.  Our vehicles and licences are under our daughters address, as are our Sky subscriptions and TV licence.  The TV licence has the vehicle registration number recorded on it and in their records.  We have passports they do not show an address, just that you are a resident of the United Kingdom. 

DVLA require a contact address.  Only limited companies can use a box number.  The address does not have to be your residence, but must be an address where you can be contacted through easily if necessary.   That is why the continuous cruisers have it set up so that letters can be opened, scanned and emailed.  If an email reply is then sent to them, they copy it to paper and post it for the continuous cruiser.  This was set up by ex-Post Office employees.

We need to return to the UK at least once per year for MOTs.  As it is the car and the motorhome are offset by 6 months so that is twice we have to be in the UK if only for a day each time for the tests.  Our car MOT expired as we were leaving Spain early this year, but as it was on the trailer it made no difference, as it was taken to the MOT station on the trailer when we got home.  Technically if a vehicle brought into the country does not have an MOT, it cannot be driven to the MOT station even with an appointment.  It has to be towed or transported. 

Our insurance is for 365 days in Europe or other country on the list and is marked as Full Timing.  It is not cheap, but it gives us peace of mind knowing that if anything did happen, they would not be trying to uses our status, as a loophole not to pay out.

We informed our doctor and he agreed not to remove us from his records.  We have 6 monthly check ups (going for one this week) and he is happy to prescribe for 6 months if we require it.  You currently need an address within the practice area, so we use a nephews address for this.  The doctor said last November that going to Spain for the winter, would be benificial for my health and he was proved correct.  Not all doctors however have this enlightened attitude and they stick by NHS guidelines as if they were written in stone, instead of being guidance.

In the UK we use CC & C&CC 5 van sites mainly, but also have use of a private naturist club site in the south lakes, at which stays are unlimited.  We stayed at a pub in the motorhome for a couple of nights this week while getting our gas tank sorted at Autogas 2000.

Last autumn we went to Hadstone (Duridge Bay) and were moved on by a council employee.  I reported this to Chris and it was left on the database, but he has now removed sites in this area, after others have been moved this week (see other posts on this forum by Maingate).  We do not find wilding to be and less expensive in the UK, than using 5 van sites and we have piece of mind and no problems of getting water or disposing of waste.  Abroard we use Aires and Municipal sites.  Last winter we stayed on one site in Spain at 12.90 Euro per night (long term rate) inclusive of EHU.


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## Pollik (Oct 19, 2011)

> The TV licence has the vehicle registration number recorded on it and in their records.



I didn't know that could be done.



> Technically if a vehicle brought into the country does not have an MOT, it cannot be driven to the MOT station even with an appointment. It has to be towed or transported.



I didn't know that, either.  I can understand that they might want it to be transported, but allowing it to be towed seems a bit illogical.



Polly


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## John H (Oct 19, 2011)

Well, John, I don't know how you've done it but you seem to have got several different organisations to accept what is basically a letter drop in place of a residence. You should write a book explaining in detail how others can do the same because the published rules for many of those things listed state that you must reside at the given address. I have never pushed this because I was always taught never to ask a question to which you did not want to know the answer! You have had the courage to ask the questions and it has worked for you. Well done and get writing! :cheers:


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