# Full Timing in Static Caravan plus Motorhome - Advice Needed Please ?



## RAW (Sep 6, 2020)

Could have posted this in general chat but thought the thread may get some more attention here.
I am likely going to have to move out of where I live next Summer / Autumn 2021

I am thinking of possibly buying land, or possibly staying in a mobile home or static caravan on a park
My area of interest is North Wales as a base

Does anyone know of any space for Van parking or where I could maybe purchase a static with space to park also my van.
I am looking for somewhere close to the Coast?

Any help or advice appreciated, TIA


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## wildebus (Sep 6, 2020)

dunno for sure, but I don't think in Great Britain (no idea of NI) you can just buy land to park a van or static caravan on and live in it  (which is a great shame really).  Only way to do that is if you were also building a permanent structure and the caravan was just temporary accomodation.


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## RAW (Sep 6, 2020)

wildebus said:


> dunno for sure, but I don't think in Great Britain (no idea of NI) you can just buy land to park a van or static caravan on and live in it  (which is a great shame really).  Only way to do that is if you were also building a permanent structure and the caravan was just temporary accomodation.


Yeah, I am kinda aware of that which is why I am also looking at various Parks that have statics for sale but cannot find many in North wales so wondered if any folk had some insider knowledge ? Thanks @wildebus


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## wildebus (Sep 6, 2020)

Are you aware of this site - https://www.parkhome.org.uk/results.php ?  might help.
You could also look at Holiday parks potentially?  usually have a period of time where they close to prevent being classed as residential, but as you will still have a campervan, just means you would full-time in the camper for that period


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## RAW (Sep 6, 2020)

No I wasn't aware and that's very helpful, thanks very much


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## trevskoda (Sep 6, 2020)

In N Ireland you cannot live on land over so many days,but if you buy north or south land with outline planing ang et founds in to dpc level but do no more ypu can stay as long as you like,in the north you will be rated after18mths ,no rates down south.
But if you have a big bit of land and buy 3 alpacas and get them sheared for wool then no rates up noth as classed as farming,wonder would that work for my cat.


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## jagmanx (Sep 6, 2020)

Try Rightmove as well.
You may need somewhere where you can get on the electoral roll for many reasons
Best to check that and occupancy rules


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## trevskoda (Sep 6, 2020)

Could you afford a home down south ireland as cheap as chips with ground.


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## RAW (Sep 6, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Could you afford a home down south ireland as cheap as chips with ground.


Cannot get residential status as don't have the requirements for Southern Ireland


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## jagmanx (Sep 6, 2020)

What about NI / Ulster
Mid-Wales  may suit better


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## RAW (Sep 6, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> What about NI / Ulster
> Mid-Wales may suit better


Want to be near the Coast and cannot go mid-Wales or NI due to work commitments, that would be next step after missus has retired to maybe look at mid Wales, I was born in Haverfordwest !


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## in h (Sep 6, 2020)

RAW said:


> I am thinking of possibly buying land, or possibly staying in a mobile home or static caravan on a park


In general, you can't buy a plot of land and decide to live on it. The planning people will turn nasty, whether it's a building, a caravan or even just a bender.
The other thing to be aware of is that houses, however tatty, tend to go up in value over time. 
On a park site, after a few years, you will probably be required to buy a new caravan to avoid making the place look tatty.
Caravans, however palatial, always go down in value. They're a very poor investment. 
Only buy one if you don't have any way to raise the capital to buy a proper building.


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## runnach (Sep 6, 2020)

Statics are the biggest potential money pit you can pour money into, sites dictate gas prices , need to arrange insurance through them , and any work needs doing needs to go through the office so they get a cut....sell a van and typically they want 15% plus vat as a commission...better off short term renting a small house through an agent or word of mouth

North Wales around Towyn there are numerous sites but the majority ran along the above lines. An alternative is a seasonal pitch on one of the big parks like ty mawr but not cheap


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## harrow (Sep 6, 2020)

RAW said:


> Could have posted this in general chat but thought the thread may get some more attention here.
> I am likely going to have to move out of where I live next Summer / Autumn 2021
> 
> I am thinking of possibly buying land, or possibly staying in a mobile home or static caravan on a park
> ...



The good news is site plot fees are cheaper in north wales than the south east, however static caravans and park homes are there for the site owners to make as much money as possible.
If you can find £80,000 you could buy a house  

You won't be able to put a secondhand caravan on some land or a campsite.


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## eddyt (Sep 6, 2020)

RAW said:


> Want to be near the Coast and cannot go mid-Wales or NI due to work commitments, that would be next step after missus has retired to maybe look at mid Wales, I was born in Haverfordwest !


hi. if you buy a static on a holiday site they will want a letter to prove you are paying council tax on a house.


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## QFour (Sep 14, 2020)

There are a few houses around the Boston area that have statics in the garden. So why not a house you can rent and a static when you need it. You will also have someone looking after things while you are away. Its a temporary building so you won't need planning permission but I would have a word with Council first. Lincolnshire is one of the cheapest places to live. Some really nice coastal areas. One of the biggest problems they have is lack of jobs which keeps house prices down especially out on the Fenns. Its flat farming country and low pay.


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## landoboguy (Sep 14, 2020)

I know a guy that owns a small park in Towyn, right next to the coast down the end of Sandbank lane  2.5k per year rent.. I have a static there and he lets me park my 7.5 m van when I need to,What size is your van OP ?

I dont have my van there all the time but pop down sometimes with it for a few nights. \tight squeeze getting in 7.5m (ish) but there are a coupe of statics down one side with a large parking area. Im seeing him tomorrow and Ill PM you here if he has naything coming up.

With the covid Statics are hard to get atm, but Im sure the guy at number 21 is selling up.


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## landoboguy (Sep 14, 2020)

QFour said:


> There are a few houses around the Boston area that have statics in the garden. So why not a house you can rent and a static when you need it. You will also have someone looking after things while you are away. Its a temporary building so you won't need planning permission but I would have a word with Council first. Lincolnshire is one of the cheapest places to live. Some really nice coastal areas. One of the biggest problems they have is lack of jobs which keeps house prices down especially out on the Fenns. Its flat farming country and low pay.


You can need planning permision for this quite often.


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## mickymost (Sep 14, 2020)

QFour said:


> There are a few houses around the Boston area that have statics in the garden. So why not a house you can rent and a static when you need it. You will also have someone looking after things while you are away. Its a temporary building so you won't need planning permission but I would have a word with Council first. Lincolnshire is one of the cheapest places to live. Some really nice coastal areas. One of the biggest problems they have is lack of jobs which keeps house prices down especially out on the Fenns. Its flat farming country and low pay.




Yes youre right I live in Lincolnshire,just outside Skegness.Many jobs are seasonal on minimum wage.It was one of the cheapest places for property but I feel that is now changing.Plenty of seasonal Farmwork but not easy to get a position.


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## mickymost (Sep 14, 2020)

landoboguy said:


> You can need planning permision for this quite often.




Planning permission for what? The caravan you sure as they are temporary structures.Although I think You will need to get planning if you intend to connect it up with all services i/e sewage Electric water etc.


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## mickymost (Sep 14, 2020)

eddyt said:


> hi. if you buy a static on a holiday site they will want a letter to prove you are paying council tax on a house.



If you cant supply this then The Council will get you for Council Tax on the Static Caravan.


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## RAW (Sep 15, 2020)

landoboguy said:


> I know a guy that owns a small park in Towyn, right next to the coast down the end of Sandbank lane  2.5k per year rent.. I have a static there and he lets me park my 7.5 m van when I need to,What size is your van OP ?
> 
> I dont have my van there all the time but pop down sometimes with it for a few nights. \tight squeeze getting in 7.5m (ish) but there are a coupe of statics down one side with a large parking area. Im seeing him tomorrow and Ill PM you here if he has naything coming up.
> 
> With the covid Statics are hard to get atm, but Im sure the guy at number 21 is selling up.


MWB Sprinter 2000 year is Van maybe 7 metres and narrow'ish.
Just looked on maps and that is a good location for us
If you could have a chat with your friend would be great. MANY THANKS


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## RAW (Sep 15, 2020)

QFour said:


> So why not a house you can rent and a static when you need it


POOR  (as in financially not wealthy)


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## jagmanx (Sep 15, 2020)

Just "Google mapped Towyn beach"

OMG how many caravan sites there ?
Obviously better to try one where you get a contact.
But drive round and ask !.
How much income do they get "Off Season" ?


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## jagmanx (Sep 15, 2020)

Also a few C&CC Certified sites nearby. One on a farm near St Asaph.
Reading reports seems a couple of permanent units there...
There will be others !


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## harrow (Sep 15, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Planning permission for what? The caravan you sure as they are temporary structures.Although I think You will need to get planning if you intend to connect it up with all services i/e sewage Electric water etc.



A caravan to sleep in needs planning permission, I tried at home and the council refused and said they would never agree it.


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## jagmanx (Sep 15, 2020)

Maybe use a big "Towable Caravan" just leave it on site !


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## Markd (Sep 15, 2020)

Let's face it if you are brazen enough you buy the land and live on it claiming your traveller heritage!
In a lot of cases it will work especially as so few councils have done the correct travelling community need assessments.


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## landoboguy (Sep 15, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Planning permission for what? The caravan you sure as they are temporary structures.Although I think You will need to get planning if you intend to connect it up with all services i/e sewage Electric water etc.


Yeah if living in it or dossing in youll need PP, temp or not


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## landoboguy (Sep 15, 2020)

RAW said:


> MWB Sprinter 2000 year is Van maybe 7 metres and narrow'ish.
> Just looked on maps and that is a good location for us
> If you could have a chat with your friend would be great. MANY THANKS


Spoke to him today, no good Im afraid the fellah isnt seling.
As for council tax we dont have to prove that here, nor do you most places as they are 8 or 10 month sites you dont need too, only for all year round ones.
He charges about the same units cost as my leccy and gas at home, the water is metered,
you dont have to have repairs done through them
and I get my own insurance through abergele insurance.
the fees are 2.5 k per year
but yes, when you sell he wants 10%
good thing is he doesnt have an age limit on how old your van is...these reasons are why getting a van on here is very sought after.
He said hed let me know as sonn as one comes up there are about 50 plots here and a belting little club.

there are a 2 lads here that have long wheel base transits, they arent a problem


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## runnach (Sep 16, 2020)

landoboguy said:


> Spoke to him today, no good Im afraid the fellah isnt seling.
> As for council tax we dont have to prove that here, nor do you most places as they are 8 or 10 month sites you dont need too, only for all year round ones.
> He charges about the same units cost as my leccy and gas at home, the water is metered,
> you dont have to have repairs done through them
> ...


Andy @Sandy lane ? I used to deal with most of the sites in Towyn and Abergele, most are far more dictatorial than your arrangement without naming names. For a seasonal pitch with a tourer it might be worth the op speaking with Henley’s.


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## harrow (Sep 16, 2020)

channa said:


> Andy @Sandy lane ? I used to deal with most of the sites in Towyn and Abergele, most are far more dictatorial than your arrangement without naming names. For a seasonal pitch with a tourer it might be worth the op speaking with Henley’s.



The last site where we had a static caravan, one of the owners died and left their caravan in his will, *but the site manager wanted £8000 for the caravan to stay on the site.*


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## landoboguy (Sep 16, 2020)

channa said:


> Andy @Sandy lane ? I used to deal with most of the sites in Towyn and Abergele, most are far more dictatorial than your arrangement without naming names. For a seasonal pitch with a tourer it might be worth the op speaking with Henley’s.


I dont know an Andy mate,
Oh yeah, Edwards and the like run a tight ship, but there are some smaller more flexible ones. You cant blame them, we all have to make money but ome are taking the p**. £400 disconnection fee, i mean cmon. One I looked at in LLandullas, wont allow your van on unless it is brand new and has to be moved off after 4 years.

Yeah Henleys are a good shout, there are also options for speaking to Abbeyfords, (just been taken over) they have some FT going on I hear.
the issue atm is the vans, they are hard to come by, people doing staycations now and the manufacturer all but stopped by Willerby etc when covid hit. Like rocking hosre shit apparently, and all the old dirt cheap ones have been shipped out to poland.
Its a good site this one, Im sat in it now.....but soon as one comes up its gone within days.


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## runnach (Sep 16, 2020)

Andy and his wife run sandbanks , seems a decent sort, a few years ago we rented a shop of him at the side of the club she runs the hairdressers. Better still within stumbling distance of sandbank bakery always good for a sandwich at lunchtime.

We only kept the shop for a season did far more business at the weekend on tir Prince market, we fitted manly double glazing and central heating, re cladding etc hence visited most of the sites in that neck of the woods. Lots of sites to go at   But mixed responses despite having the necessary insurances NCC membership and ISO accreditation.

albeit no longer part of the business I am good friends with the owner and still doing loads in the area 

Re vans exported to Poland in a previous life to my time in Towyn I worked for a major tour operator in France and end of life vans we exported to Poland , 2012 we could have sold 3 vans to every one we did sell. A lot ended up on sites in France for such as pol camp and e camp who directly market to the polish tourist market.

The current demand does seem to be driving site owners a bit more strict , re disconnection charges 400 imo is reasonably cheap, it gets eye watering when they start mentioning cranes lol

Good to reminisce


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## Debroos (Sep 16, 2020)

RAW said:


> Cannot get residential status as don't have the requirements for Southern Ireland


What requirements do you need to live or buy property in the South?


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## harrow (Sep 16, 2020)

landoboguy said:


> but there are some smaller more flexible ones. You cant blame them, we all have to make money but ome are taking the p**. £400 disconnection fee, i mean cmon.



I had to pay £250 for my static caravan to go off site, but the biggest risk is statics being moved off and new park homes going on the site, that happened to me in Essex. 









						East Beach Park - Residential Park Homes in Essex, East England
					

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## landoboguy (Sep 16, 2020)

channa said:


> Andy and his wife run sandbanks , seems a decent sort, a few years ago we rented a shop of him at the side of the club she runs the hairdressers. Better still within stumbling distance of sandbank bakery always good for a sandwich at lunchtime.
> 
> We only kept the shop for a season did far more business at the weekend on tir Prince market, we fitted manly double glazing and central heating, re cladding etc hence visited most of the sites in that neck of the woods. Lots of sites to go at   But mixed responses despite having the necessary insurances NCC membership and ISO accreditation.
> 
> ...


Yeah, good to hear you talk tbh, I have spent a lot of time here over the years and got some good friends.
The club at Sandy Bay hasnt open at all this year, nether has stones next to our site, but it is chocca with folk doing staycations, Im glad to see most businesses at last starting to take "tourists" money even though the Welsh hate the English


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## trevskoda (Sep 16, 2020)

Debroos said:


> What requirements do you need to live or buy property in the South?


If your gran perents were irish before 1912,or i could spray you green and fit you with a silly hat.any one can buy here,just some homes come with a clause of locals only,many are bought as holl homes,does not say you cannot have a holiday 12 mths a year.


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## ricc (Sep 18, 2020)

last time i checked the rules for a static in the garden without planing permission ,  it could be used as extra rooms for the occupants of the house , but meals should be cooked in house and house toilet should be used.   

bit of land without a house its more complex.  without planning youre allowed a mobile structure and can sleep in it for a limited number of nights.   last time i checked the mobile structure had to be capable of being moved on a max of 2 lorries but could be some ridiculous large size .   

thats the rules....in practice in this neck of the woods unless someone complains to the council your unlikely to get bothered.  i ve been told  that if you do get a letter from council youve got 60 days to reply,   on day 59 you write asking them to clarify one point you didnt understand in their letter,  they then have to respond and you get another 60 days to respond to that letter....etc.

weve had a static by the workshop for some years ,  its plumbed in and connected to electric....  nobody has ever enquired as to what its used for...even when council planning officers were driving past to a house being built next door.

we actually legally split the plot into 2 , i own one half , wife owns the other...if council did require the static to be moved off site we would move it onto the other half and start over again...but it aint happened yet

the system is actually pretty powerless if your prepared to read the rules., do some lateral thinking  and assume anything is allowed unless its specifically banned.   and dont beleive a council official who says you cant unless they can give a link to the specific legistlation.

i was toying with the idea of using a 40 foot artic trailer and dolly as the mobile base and building out to 12 or 14 foot wide.    but it aint going to happen now.


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## harrow (Sep 18, 2020)

ricc said:


> last time i checked the rules for a static in the garden without planing permission ,  it could be used as extra rooms for the occupants of the house , but meals should be cooked in house and house toilet should be used.
> 
> bit of land without a house its more complex.  without planning youre allowed a mobile structure and can sleep in it for a limited number of nights.   last time i checked the mobile structure had to be capable of being moved on a max of 2 lorries but could be some ridiculous large size .
> 
> ...



Yes you can't use the caravan to live in it, without planning permission.


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## shaunr68 (Sep 18, 2020)

Debroos said:


> What requirements do you need to live or buy property in the South?


Under Common Travel Area arrangements any British citizen has the right to live and work in (the Republic of) Ireland and likewise any Irish citizen has the right to live and work in the UK.  I lived there myself for a couple of years and still own half of a property in County Clare.





__





						Common Travel Area: rights of UK and Irish citizens
					

Information for UK and Irish citizens on their rights under the Common Travel Area arrangements (CTA).




					www.gov.uk
				




_"The Common Travel Area (CTA) is a long-standing arrangement between the UK, the Crown Dependencies (Bailiwick of Jersey, Bailiwick of Guernsey and the Isle of Man) and Ireland.

Under the CTA, British and Irish citizens can move freely and reside in either jurisdiction. British and Irish citizens enjoy associated reciprocal rights and privileges, including the right to work, study and vote in certain elections, as well as to access social welfare benefits and health services."_


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## izwozral (Sep 18, 2020)

Static sites is something we looked into but were e warned off them by people who had been there and done that. Pity as they were in superb locations and nice accommodation. They are usually run by unsavoury characters so I'm told. 
I bite my lip at this point. 

Also looked into buying land to camp on but it's pretty much a no go situation. 

For a so called free country we don't half have tight shackles.


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## trevskoda (Sep 18, 2020)

If you build on land and its visible for over 4 years you get away without planing,big chance to take mind you with goggle earth they can now see you.


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## jagmanx (Sep 19, 2020)

shaunr68 said:


> Under Common Travel Area arrangements any British citizen has the right to live and work in (the Republic of) Ireland and likewise any Irish citizen has the right to live and work in the UK.  I lived there myself for a couple of years and still own half of a property in County Clare.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks 

There are so many layers of regulations but I have always thought that in effect UK & NI together with ROI are almost as one.
I also suspect this will remain whatever happens with BREXIT after all it pre-dates both joining and leaving Europe.
AND all the political manouevres are similarly focused (not that that matters in this respect)


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## shaunr68 (Sep 19, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> Thanks
> 
> There are so many layers of regulations but I have always thought that in effect UK & NI together with ROI are almost as one.
> I also suspect this will remain whatever happens with BREXIT after all it pre-dates both joining and leaving Europe.
> AND all the political manouevres are similarly focused (not that that matters in this respect)


You're right, the CTA arrangements pre-date our membership of the EU by decades and it is very unlikely that Brexit will have any impact.  There is a strong cultural connection to the UK, just about every farmer over the age of 50 had spent time working on building sites in the UK and most still had family over here, brothers who had married and remained etc, so half their families are English these days.  Similarly there are a large number of British people with Irish heritage and I think I read that 15% of the population of County Clare where I lived was from the UK, predominantly English.

Although rural houses can be found quite cheaply you pay in other ways.  The healthcare system is a poor relation to the NHS and most people have private health insurance.  Dealing with bureaucracy can be a nightmare, the small population has allowed motor insurers to operate a virtual cartel keeping prices inflated and, well, try renovating an old cottage when living 50 miles from the closest decent DIY outlet!

In terms of the OP's plan, Ireland is a great example of why planning restrictions should NOT be relaxed.  During the “Celtic Tiger” period, as my neighbour described it "everyone thought they were going to be a millionaire", planning laws were lifted and every Tom, Dick and Harry built himself a huge carbunkle of a McMansion on a couple of acres of green belt where they remain, half-built as an eyesore everywhere you look on the horizon.









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## jagmanx (Sep 19, 2020)

Thanks and yes.
Boom and Bust ! Rural areas are under resourced. We toured from Larne via Donegal and the WaW then to Rosslare and Ferry to Wales. Lovely and great land and property BUT.... Without aiming to politicise I suggest ROI is desperate for no trade barriers (as indeed is Ulster). I choose not to comment on the wider political issues. Just add that inevitably the west coast is very wet ! (or soft) . We were near Cork and it was sunny and warm. A local said "enjoy today it is summer but lookout tomorrow!"


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## landoboguy (Sep 19, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> If you build on land and its visible for over 4 years you get away without planing,big chance to take mind you with goggle earth they can now see you.


excatly, the days are gone now where they walk round and check properties. We added a 4m out lean to on the back of our house, full width of course it didnt need planning permission being a temp structure but still shows on the gov website for title deed boundaries, the same for next doors covered area where he has his barbeque and his is tiny compared to mine, but still marked as a structure.


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## Debroos (Sep 19, 2020)

izwozral said:


> Static sites is something we looked into but were e warned off them by people who had been there and done that. Pity as they were in superb locations and nice accommodation. They are usually run by unsavoury characters so I'm told.
> I bite my lip at this point.
> 
> Also looked into buying land to camp on but it's pretty much a no go situation.
> ...


What's the problem with camping as long as you don't do it all the time.  I'm sure I remember the Grand Design chappie building a temporary structure with no plumbing or toilet but you could stay there temporarily...


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## izwozral (Sep 19, 2020)

Debroos said:


> What's the problem with camping as long as you don't do it all the time.  I'm sure I remember the Grand Design chappie building a temporary structure with no plumbing or toilet but you could stay there temporarily...





Debroos said:


> What's the problem with camping as long as you don't do it all the time.  I'm sure I remember the Grand Design chappie building a temporary structure with no plumbing or toilet but you could stay there temporarily...



There is a 28 day limit to camping on your own land, anything longer you need permission from the council which is never given. 
I found some superb plots of land for just a few thousand pounds which would make for permanent or semi permanent livi
ng spaces but it was not to be. 
I'm just dreamer in a totalitarian state I guess.


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## Debroos (Sep 19, 2020)

izwozral said:


> There is a 28 day limit to camping on your own land, anything longer you need permission from the council which is never given.
> I found some superb plots of land for just a few thousand pounds which would make for permanent or semi permanent livi
> ng spaces but it was not to be.
> I'm just dreamer in a totalitarian state I guess.


Could you not camp for 28 days and leave for a couple of days, then come back?


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## Val54 (Sep 19, 2020)

Debroos said:


> Could you not camp for 28 days and leave for a couple of days, then come back?


No, its 28 days in any one calendar year ..


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## trevskoda (Sep 19, 2020)

Debroos said:


> Could you not camp for 28 days and leave for a couple of days, then come back?


Its 28 in a time limit,so not so easy


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## MichelleB (Sep 20, 2020)

RAW said:


> Could have posted this in general chat but thought the thread may get some more attention here.
> I am likely going to have to move out of where I live next Summer / Autumn 2021
> 
> I am thinking of possibly buying land, or possibly staying in a mobile home or static caravan on a park
> ...


If you buy a Shepherd’s Hut (on wheels) instead of a static caravan you can get around the planning requirement.


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## trevskoda (Sep 20, 2020)

MichelleB said:


> If you buy a Shepherd’s Hut (on wheels) instead of a static caravan you can get around the planning requirement.


Yes but you must have aa good bit of land and more than 3 animals which must show money on books,ie selling wool etc for dosh,by doing this you can also get round paying rates on a house.


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## Markd (Sep 20, 2020)

Don't think I'd want to full time in a Shepherd's hut - mind you even static have wheels - would that mean I could say it was a hut


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## Debroos (Sep 20, 2020)

Val54 said:


> No, its 28 days in any one calendar year ..


What a pain...so how come people do holiday lets in shepherds huts, yurts etc presumably legally as I know some who are doing it and pay business tax.

Maybe you could have a unit and let it to yourself for holidays!


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## Deleted member 65537 (Sep 20, 2020)

RAW said:


> Could have posted this in general chat but thought the thread may get some more attention here.
> I am likely going to have to move out of where I live next Summer / Autumn 2021
> 
> I am thinking of possibly buying land, or possibly staying in a mobile home or static caravan on a park
> ...


We live in our motorhome full-time and are on a seasonal pitch on a site in North Wales because of Covid.  You pay for the year but then the pitch is yours for that length of time. We are the only motorhome here. Its very quiet but you can only stay for 28 nights at a time. Not a problem for us as we toddle off for a night or 2 one a month. It's called Lleweni Parc. There might be a spare space at the moment but I am not sure


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## Val54 (Sep 21, 2020)

Debroos said:


> What a pain...so how come people do holiday lets in shepherds huts, yurts etc presumably legally as I know some who are doing it and pay business tax.
> 
> Maybe you could have a unit and let it to yourself for holidays!


Most Councils are happy to grant planning permission for holiday accommodation, huts yurts etc to encourage the tourist pound. Getting planning permission for change of use to site a caravan etc for residential accommodation is virtually impossible as legally it is viewed as the same as building a house. So any land that is suitable would attract residential value


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## Ferris day off (Sep 27, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> If you build on land and its visible for over 4 years you get away without planing,big chance to take mind you with goggle earth they can now see you.


My partner before meeting me got herself into big financial problems. Her solution was to build a shed (same footprint as a static) on her mother's land and live in it. It got electric, water. Waste water to septic tank. It's been up 4 years plus. It's visible from the road.  From what you say it looks like the council have missed the chance to impose any type of enforcement. Happy days if correct.


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## colinm (Sep 27, 2020)

Ferris day off said:


> My partner before meeting me got herself into big financial problems. Her solution was to build a shed (same footprint as a static) on her mother's land and live in it. It got electric, water. Waste water to septic tank. It's been up 4 years plus. It's visible from the road.  From what you say it looks like the council have missed the chance to impose any type of enforcement. Happy days if correct.


If it's classed as a 'concealed development' i.e. built to look like a shed, then no the four year rule doesn't apply AFAIK


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## wildebus (Sep 27, 2020)

colinmd said:


> If it's classed as a 'concealed development' i.e. built to look like a shed, then no the four year rule doesn't apply AFAIK


That reminds of the famous (or rather infamous) case of the guy who built a massive house, hidden by straw bales in his attempt to circumvent the planning regs.









						Man won't demolish £1m secret castle because he claims to have sold it
					

Robert Fidler, 66, lost a nine-year legal battle to save his mock-Tudor dream home in Surrey, complete with cannons and battlements, and was told to destroy it by Wednesday.




					www.dailymail.co.uk


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## rugbyken (Sep 27, 2020)

i live in a park home the laws changed massively in 2013 giving home owners rights and security there was legislation that the park owner could request a fee of UP to 10% when a property was sold that is always a fixed fee of 10% now , the problem with the O Ps idea is that you fall foul of the gas regs ie no lpg structure within 6 mts of another there are exceptions but basically it stops any caravan or motor caravan being sited adjacent to another, the same rule used by the big 2 for sites


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## RAW (Sep 28, 2020)

HazelB said:


> We live in our motorhome full-time and are on a seasonal pitch on a site in North Wales because of Covid. You pay for the year but then the pitch is yours for that length of time. We are the only motorhome here. Its very quiet but you can only stay for 28 nights at a time. Not a problem for us as we toddle off for a night or 2 one a month. It's called Lleweni Parc. There might be a spare space at the moment but I am not sure


Thanks for that, very useful


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2020)

Ferris day off said:


> My partner before meeting me got herself into big financial problems. Her solution was to build a shed (same footprint as a static) on her mother's land and live in it. It got electric, water. Waste water to septic tank. It's been up 4 years plus. It's visible from the road.  From what you say it looks like the council have missed the chance to impose any type of enforcement. Happy days if correct.


Think it must look like a home.


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2020)

wildebus said:


> That reminds of the famous (or rather infamous) case of the guy who built a massive house, hidden by straw bales in his attempt to circumvent the planning regs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Think it was pulled down a few years back.


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## Robmac (Sep 28, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Think it was pulled down a few years back.



It was Trev, he got threatened with 3 months inside in 2016 so he complied.


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## jagmanx (Sep 29, 2020)

Robmac said:


> It was Trev, he got threatened with 3 months inside in 2016 so he complied.


Saved someone BALING him out !
Apparently that was the last straw.
So the big bad wolf came and huffed and puffed.......


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## trevskoda (Sep 29, 2020)

He would have been better of handing over a brown envelope before he started building.


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## harrow (Sep 29, 2020)

The councils are a bunch of hypocrites, see my lot on TV.


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## Pilot999 (Oct 1, 2020)

You can site a ”caravan” ( look up the legal definition, it can be huge) within the boundaries of your property for the betterment of your lifestyle.
That should not include overnight sleeping etc but......you will only get a visit if someone complains. The council then have to prove you are in permanent residence. That requires full time observation etc. When I enquired a very kind lady from planning told me they only have 2 operatives for the whole of the county.


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## RAW (Oct 1, 2020)

harrow said:


> see my lot on TV.


?? What do you mean ?>


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## REC (Oct 1, 2020)

We have a holiday home on a site which is divided into 55 freehold plots (pretty unique) and each unit owns a share of the entire 68acre site (lake woodland and meadows)  The site is run by a committee made up of members. But we strictly enforce the rule that owners must have a main residence and produce a council tax bill to prove this. The council's are getting very canny about people not having a main UK residence and will revoke the site license and fine the owners. This  happened recently to a holiday site down the road where they had been lax on checks and people had sold main home to live there......also think the owners had said it was fine to do this! Caused several people to be made homeless. We can park our motorhome on our plot but not sleep in it as the fire regs and licence don't allow it.


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## RAW (Oct 1, 2020)

REC said:


> The council's are getting very canny about people not having a main UK residence and will revoke the site license and fine the owners. This happened recently to a holiday site down the road where they had been lax on checks and people had sold main home to live there......also think the owners had said it was fine to do this! Caused several people to be made homeless.


That's good information to know and also is reducing freedom and sad to hear about people becoming homeless as a result.
Are you saying then, that any static home on a site cannot be a permanent residence ? i.e you would need another home as well that is council tax banded and so on. That would be unfeasible for me as simply don't have access to that sort of money.


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## jagmanx (Oct 1, 2020)

RAW said:


> That's good information to know and also is reducing freedom and sad to hear about people becoming homeless as a result.
> Are you saying then, that any static home on a site cannot be a permanent residence ? i.e you would need another home as well that is council tax banded and so on. That would be unfeasible for me as simply don't have access to that sort of money.


It is possible to register as a traveller. At an address with which you have a connection even if you do not live there now. In your case maybe where you are now. This will satisfy electoral roll requirements BUT NOT council tax.
All tricky for you !
Suggest you find out what law-abiding travellers do.


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## Markd (Oct 1, 2020)

I suppose you don't have to actually own your main home - renting a bedsit will do so long as you pay your own council tax?


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## RAW (Oct 1, 2020)

Markd said:


> renting a bedsit will do so long as you pay your own council tax?


good bit of lateral thinking there.....


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## harrow (Oct 1, 2020)

RAW said:


> ?? What do you mean ?>



They love being on TV doing nightmare landlords, slum landlords, houses of multiple occupation they are a bunch of hypocrites, bullying home owners, but the council just waste money on vanity projects.  Its like they have money to burn.


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## harrow (Oct 1, 2020)

A lot of _holiday caravan_ sites say they close for 2 weeks a year but the councils are annoyed that they don't pay council tax.

Its like with my council, I have to pay them currently £200 every month and the council just spends money like water.


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## Val54 (Oct 1, 2020)

Pilot999 said:


> You can site a ”caravan” ( look up the legal definition, it can be huge) within the boundaries of your property for the betterment of your lifestyle.
> That should not include overnight sleeping etc but......you will only get a visit if someone complains. The council then have to prove you are in permanent residence. That requires full time observation etc. When I enquired a very kind lady from planning told me they only have 2 operatives for the whole of the county.


 That's actually back to front ...... you can normally site a caravan (meeting the legal definition) within the curtilage of a house without needing planning permission, provided that the use of the caravan is incidental to the use of the main house. So using a caravan as an extra bedroom or living space by family members or carers is fine, you can't use it as separate, independent  accommodation without planning permission. As to getting a visit, that would really depend on whether neighbours complained.


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## harrow (Oct 1, 2020)

Pilot999 said:


> You can site a ”caravan” ( look up the legal definition, it can be huge) within the boundaries of your property for the betterment of your lifestyle.
> That should not include overnight sleeping etc but......you will only get a visit if someone complains. The council then have to prove you are in permanent residence. That requires full time observation etc. When I enquired a very kind lady from planning told me they only have 2 operatives for the whole of the county.



Around here they use streetview and satellite pictures to prove their case and beds in sheds they use thermal cameras.

A mate of mine with a double garage and toilet has a visit from the council every 6 months


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## Markd (Oct 1, 2020)

That's where your council tax is going 
I'm amazed they've still got the funding for that - presumably closed all the libraries


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## harrow (Oct 1, 2020)

Not Wales but it gives you so ideas


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## harrow (Oct 1, 2020)




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## REC (Oct 1, 2020)

RAW said:


> That's good information to know and also is reducing freedom and sad to hear about people becoming homeless as a result.
> Are you saying then, that any static home on a site cannot be a permanent residence ? i.e you would need another home as well that is council tax banded and so on. That would be unfeasible for me as simply don't have access to that sort of money.


Only on sites registered as holiday sites with a shutdown period. Our site defines a permanent residence as  not a rental, and the units all count as second homes. Many sites don't insist on proof of a permanent address but it is a risk. I do know some people who get away with it but it is a "holiday" licence and council's are doing more checks now.  Also the fees for holiday sites are often high £3-5000 annually, there are also a few very shady unscrupulous site owners. Not protected in the same way as static sites with a residential licence as come under different legislation. We pay annual fees which include a percentage of the council business tax for the site. There is a small site down the road which is supposed to be a holiday site but the council made an error with the planning and apparently the result is people stay full-time. The units sell for upwards of £200000 .......there is now a minimum of six weeks shutdown period allowed in Suffolk for holiday sites.


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## jagmanx (Oct 2, 2020)

Whilst There have tp be contro;s/legislation..

It seems to me incredible that some authorities are going out of their way to make some people homeless !
Not as  simple as that but ????

Bristol has/had a significant motorhome community and the council actually privided facilities (in lock down)
I read it on rhis site ?

Can our Bristol correspondent provide the latest ?


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## harrow (Oct 2, 2020)

The councils would counter that holiday caravans are slum housing, but the main objection is they don't receive council tax.

The last holiday static caravan I had (for 10 years) quite a few used to live in Spain and Portugal during the winter, some rented bedsit rooms over winter.

One of the strictly dancers parents have just gone back to Spain.


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## harrow (Oct 2, 2020)

RAW said:


> Could have posted this in general chat but thought the thread may get some more attention here.
> I am likely going to have to move out of where I live next Summer / Autumn 2021
> 
> I am thinking of possibly buying land, or possibly staying in a mobile home or static caravan on a park
> ...



You really are better off buying a really cheap property in North Wales.


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## in h (Oct 2, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> It seems to me incredible that some authorities are going out of their way to make some people homeless !
> Not as  simple as that but ????


They are going out of their way to prevent abuse of planning law, avoiding paying council tax and the undermining of legal protection of tenants.


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## REC (Oct 3, 2020)

@harrow they do pay council tax in a holiday home but it is business tax not residential
and a percentage Included in the site fees. If a holiday site allows people to rent out their unit, the council charge more tax. All based on profit made by site. I think the planning is the issue which allows that the standard of units is permitted to be lower for "temporary, holiday accommodation "


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## harrow (Oct 3, 2020)

REC said:


> @harrow they do pay council tax in a holiday home but it is business tax not residential
> and a percentage Included in the site fees. If a holiday site allows people to rent out their unit, the council charge more tax. All based on profit made by site. I think the planning is the issue which allows that the standard of units is permitted to be lower for "temporary, holiday accommodation "



Correct it is the business rates tax as part of the pitch fee, water bill etc, etc and then VAT added to the bill  well it was on the last static caravan I had for 10 years.


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## RAW (Oct 11, 2020)

harrow said:


> You really are better off buying a really cheap property in North Wales.


There's not much that will fall within my meagre budget sadly, my life was financially fubared in 2008 and now at 53, without a large miracle, there is little chance of recovery


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## trevskoda (Oct 11, 2020)

harrow said:


> You really are better off buying a really cheap property in North Wales.


Or donegall


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## REC (Oct 11, 2020)

My brother in law had similar financial issues and ended up buying a house in Barnsley as prices were so much cheaper....£70000 for terrace, but doesn't give you vehicle space. Really need a long term rent of a bit of land from a farmer but should think that's not easy.


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## RAW (Oct 17, 2020)

REC said:


> Really need a long term rent of a bit of land from a farmer but should think that's not easy.


Don't really know any....


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## Pedalman (Oct 18, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Could you afford a home down south ireland as cheap as chips with ground.View attachment 86273


Wow , that property certainly is  cheap as chips , I'd love to buy it and live in it but across the water in Southern Ireland  is too far , however beautiful it is


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## RAW (Oct 19, 2020)

harrow said:


> Not Wales but it gives you so ideas


Video is private, if it's yours then needs to be unlisted or Public for someone with a link to view it or you have to give access by email or User


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## RAW (Oct 19, 2020)

Pedalman said:


> Wow , that property certainly is  cheap as chips , I'd love to buy it and live in it but across the water in Southern Ireland  is too far , however beautiful it is


South Ireland, Eire, you need hereditary rights in order to get residency, unfortunately looked into this and neither myself or my partner can and although I like Ireland - I do not particularly like the Weather there it does not suit my temperament. Whereas


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## harrow (Oct 19, 2020)

RAW said:


> Video is private, if it's yours then needs to be unlisted or Public for someone with a link to view it or you have to give access by email or User



No sorry someone else owns the video and it has been withdrawn


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## RAW (Oct 19, 2020)

harrow said:


> No sorry someone else owns the video and it has been withdrawn


Interesting, do you know whose it was ?


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## harrow (Oct 19, 2020)

RAW said:


> Interesting, do you know whose it was ?



No. But if I remember correctly it was someone who put a static caravan on a off grid plot of land.


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## trevskoda (Oct 19, 2020)

Here is what you do, pay a farmer some rent and ask to hide your caravan in a barn corner,satellite wont see you and no one else else will.
Pay him for electric and get a cable run to your caravan,hide you van in there to, no rates to pay.


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## wildebus (Oct 19, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Here is what you do, pay a farmer some rent and ask to hide your caravan in a barn corner,satellite wont see you and no one else else will.
> Pay him for electric and get a cable run to your caravan,hide you van in there to, no rates to pay.


What a fun way to live.


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