# "They call me the wanderer....... the wanderer......"



## RoaminRog (Feb 13, 2018)

Our Autotrail Miami is based on a Renault Master. It has a tendancy to wander when driving on straight roads and it gets to the point where my arms ache, trying to keep it in a straight line. This is not something which has just started, thinking about about it, it has always been the same but there have always been other concerns that took preference until now.
Years ago, I had a Land Rover which did the same and it improved drastically after steering dampers were fitted.
Before I go down that road, does anyone have suggestions that may help please.


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## Robmac (Feb 13, 2018)

I haven't had that problem with my Renault Master PVC Rog, it drives like a dream, so I wonder if it is anything to do with the coachbuilding? (Maybe a weight imbalance).


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## Deleted member 71750 (Feb 13, 2018)

Might be worth getting the wheel alignment checked, how's the tyre wear?


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## RoaminRog (Feb 13, 2018)

DaveH55 said:


> Might be worth getting the wheel alignment checked, how's the tyre wear?



Brand new tyres fitted, so yes maybe worth an alignment check, thanks.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 13, 2018)

Robmac said:


> I haven't had that problem with my Renault Master PVC Rog, it drives like a dream, so I wonder if it is anything to do with the coachbuilding? (Maybe a weight imbalance).



Did wonder about that Rob, there's a heck of a rear overhang, maybe lifting the front wheels at speed.


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## trevskoda (Feb 13, 2018)

Any short vh with high sides & long overhang will do this.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 13, 2018)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> What make ?



Cheap crap Charlie, just cheap crap.

As I mentioned, this has always happened, even when we had Michilin Campers. I think a wheel alignment check is the way to go.


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## trevskoda (Feb 13, 2018)

I drove toyota hi ace with box luton body way back in early eightys,it to was like a bar of soap on a ice ring.


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## saxonborg (Feb 13, 2018)

Check your axle weights to ensure correct distribution, tyre pressures, tyres with aggresive treads wont be as directionaly stable as grooved tyres, steering alignment, front shock absorbers. Unlikley to be play in the steering as this should have been checked on your last mot. And last but not least you may have a problem in your steering rack/power steering pump. Just a few thoughts, look at the easiest things first is the motto.


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## trevskoda (Feb 13, 2018)

To much weight at the tail will also cause this wondering malarkey.


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## The laird (Feb 13, 2018)

Roger my advice would be to get a laser alignment check done ,this does toe in toe out caster camber etc .
We at my old place of work we’re one of the pioneers in the uk of josam laser alignment ,it’s not cheap but it would let you know if a chassis or geometry is not correct ,it would clear up this side of things prior to throwing money at it ,
Google josam and read the history roger ,
Regards gordon


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## RoaminRog (Feb 13, 2018)

The laird said:


> Roger my advice would be to get a laser alignment check done ,this does toe in toe out caster camber etc .
> We at my old place of work we’re one of the pioneers in the uk of josam laser alignment ,it’s not cheap but it would let you know if a chassis or geometry is not correct ,it would clear up this side of things prior to throwing money at it ,
> Google josam and read the history roger ,
> Regards gordon



Thanks Gordon, I really think alignment is the way to go.


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## molly 2 (Feb 13, 2018)

The laird said:


> Roger my advice would be to get a laser alignment check done ,this does toe in toe out caster camber etc .
> We at my old place of work we’re one of the pioneers in the uk of josam laser alignment ,it’s not cheap but it would let you know if a chassis or geometry is not correct ,it would clear up this side of things prior to throwing money at it ,
> Google josam and read the history roger ,
> Regards gordon


. Have to agree with the laird Rodge  ,wandering steering can be miss alignment of the rear axle 
Just as often as the front , rubber bushers can fail allowing some  movement  of the rear axle , if nothing is found on visual check  and tyres and worn joints  are ruled out , one easy check is to measure  the wheel base  on both sides with the steering straight  before a full front and rear  geometry check .be aware that some garage's may use a geometry check as a way of finding work  Bazz


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## maingate (Feb 13, 2018)

If you are heavy on the back end, the least bit of play in the Ball joints could induce a wandering effect.

My Tag axle van on a Renault Master has had advisories on the Ball joints and I had them all changed (top and bottom) the other week. There was none of the 'wandering' that you have though and I think that is down to the long Tag axle Alko chassis and short overhang.


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## oppy (Feb 13, 2018)

"They call me the wanderer....... the wanderer......"

That's only because we are polite, sensitive and totally pc group


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## jeffmossy (Feb 13, 2018)

Also think Gordons suggestion is the way to go Rog :wave:


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## molly 2 (Feb 13, 2018)

You could go down the admin route and fit air suspension ,then you can tip up one side of the van to fully drain the gray water .


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## Chris356 (Feb 13, 2018)

Is it not that cheap vodka from Aldi that's causing it. Our hobby has a overhang I fitted air assist cost £300 made a massive improvement and lifts the rear 6 inch


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## campervanannie (Feb 13, 2018)

I agree with Gordon I have no idea what he is talking about but he comes across as a clever chap.


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## jagmanx (Feb 13, 2018)

*Sorry Trev our van is OK*



trevskoda said:


> Any short vh with high sides & long overhang will do this.



We have a Renault Master based van
Lunar H622 coachbuilt 6.5 M with a long overhang...
Drives very well mind you I rarely go over 60mph


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## eddyt (Feb 13, 2018)

hi
   it will be the front suspension wishbone bushes worn.


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## The laird (Feb 13, 2018)

campervanannie said:


> I agree with Gordon I have no idea what he is talking about but he comes across as a clever chap.



Well I think you’re a wee stouter


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## GWAYGWAY (Feb 13, 2018)

My  new Hymer with the Sprinter base DOES WANDER, it is quite bad in sidewinds but the biggest problem I find it the power steering is so light it takes just the slightest movement or a sneeze and off we go all over the place , My car has power steering that is light at low speed and virtually goes away  as the speed goes up, very steady at m'way speed.
Mercedes has a way fo solving it that I think is cock-eyed, They fit lane wandering and side movement control systems, which  jab the  front brakes ABS when it senses a wander?????????????
WTF that for just turn down the power-assist and increase the trail angle of the front wheels, and save a fortune in 'extra technology'.  An engineering fix that costs a lot in optional extra to fix a fault that shouldn't be there.   Apart from that is is great to drive, but I do find the constant corrections make me tense and tired after a long days drive.


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## The laird (Feb 13, 2018)

eddyt said:


> hi
> it will be the front suspension wishbone bushes worn.



Could be top strut mountings eddy,could be steering rack,could be a sub chassis loose ,the list goes on and on mate you know that esp wi taxis,roger is better getting a full alignment check done then take it from there imho


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## Wully (Feb 13, 2018)

Take you’re wallet out the back cupboard Think weight on tail end has quite a lot to do with front end problems on mhs everythingis off balance so somthings got to give think any kind of upgrade on back suspension on a motor home shoul help front end drift


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## eddyt (Feb 13, 2018)

The laird said:


> Could be top strut mountings eddy,could be steering rack,could be a sub chassis loose ,the list goes on and on mate you know that esp wi taxis,roger is better getting a full alignment check done then take it from there imho



hi
  i would get underneath with a tyre lever and check bushes before
  alignment because if they need changing it will need realiged. how 
  is the tyre wear is it even.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 13, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> Take you’re wallet out the back cupboard Think weight on tail end has quite a lot to do with front end problems on mhs everythingis off balance so somthings got to give think any kind of upgrade on back suspension on a motor home shoul help front end drift



We already have air suspension on the rear axle.
I am going to contact a local company that does alignment and we’ll take it from there.
I have been prepared to put up with the wandering until now, but we have a long trip planned shortly and I don’t want to sit there for hours fighting with the steering and not being able to relax.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 13, 2018)

eddyt said:


> hi
> i would get underneath with a tyre lever and check bushes before
> alignment because if they need changing it will need realiged. how
> is the tyre wear is it even.



Tyres are virtually new Ed, no sign of any wear yet.
Thanks for the advice.


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## eddyt (Feb 13, 2018)

RoaminRog said:


> Tyres are virtually new Ed, no sign of any wear yet.
> Thanks for the advice.



hi
  if the tyres are new you will notbe able to tell by sight.
  you will need to measure each edge of tyre with a digital depth
 gauge.


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## Deleted member 38440 (Feb 14, 2018)

Chris356 said:


> Is it not that cheap vodka from Aldi that's causing it. Our hobby has a overhang I fitted air assist cost £300 made a massive improvement and lifts the rear 6 inch



Please tell me more about the £300 air suspension.
Many thanks in advance.
Graham


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## RoaminRog (Feb 14, 2018)

Thanks for all your replies and suggestions. I didn't realise but the garage where I work use a company called Lasertrak, and they are going to see what they can find on Friday, so will let you know what they find. They want it over a pit, so they can poke about and check everything they can. Fingers crossed!
Thanks all!!


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## Tezza33 (Feb 14, 2018)

Good luck Rog, mine started to wander when I fitted winter tyres, I was lucky that dropping the front tyre pressure cured it and there was nothing wrong with the front or rear suspension


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## Chris356 (Feb 14, 2018)

grahammay2 said:


> Please tell me more about the £300 air suspension.
> Many thanks in advance.
> Graham


I got mine off this guy paid extra £20 for dual gauges 
FORD TRANSIT 2000-2013 TWIN WHEEL RWD RECOVERY TIPPER AIR SUSPENSION KIT  | eBay


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## RoaminRog (Feb 14, 2018)

Tezza33 said:


> Good luck Rog, mine started to wander when I fitted winter tyres, I was lucky that dropping the front tyre pressure cured it and there was nothing wrong with the front or rear suspension



Nice one Terry, hope our problem is as simple!


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## runnach (Feb 14, 2018)

Hi Rog I have been following the thread and most culprits have been mentioned , it could be as simple as a directional tread tyre fitted wrong perhaps ? In either event a good garage laser testing will test the lot and can check steering , Weight distribution possibilities aside which may require thoughts on what is carried and where I don't think you will have the fiasco of last time a gearbox as I recall 

Good luck to hopefully a simple and cheap remedy 

Channa


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## molly 2 (Feb 14, 2018)

Hope it is nothing to do with your missing electrical connection gissmo .


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## GWAYGWAY (Feb 14, 2018)

Forgot to mention that the front tyre might just be too hard and that reduces the contact area and makes the tyres much stiffer in twist and flex.  get the proper acle weight aa a weigh bridge then ask the tyre makers the correct pressure for that weighting.  Mine is now 46 in the front  when I got it it was 76. far too stiff but continental said drop it to 46 so I did it stopped a lot of my wandering.


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## Tezza33 (Feb 14, 2018)

GWAYGWAY said:


> Forgot to mention that the front tyre might just be too hard and that reduces the contact area and makes the tyres much stiffer in twist and flex.  get the proper acle weight aa a weigh bridge then ask the tyre makers the correct pressure for that weighting.  Mine is now 46 in the front  when I got it it was 76. far too stiff but continental said drop it to 46 so I did it stopped a lot of my wandering.


This is what I found, previous tyres needed a high pressure on the front (Michelin X Campingcar tyres), new tyres needed the pressure dropped from 70psi to 45 psi, a huge difference but it worked, rear pressure was dropped from 80psi to 55psi, it is a nicer drive, quieter and a lot more feel to the steering


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## RoaminRog (Feb 15, 2018)

Tezza33 said:


> This is what I found, previous tyres needed a high pressure on the front (Michelin X Campingcar tyres), new tyres needed the pressure dropped from 70psi to 45 psi, a huge difference but it worked, rear pressure was dropped from 80psi to 55psi, it is a nicer drive, quieter and a lot more feel to the steering



Thanks Guys, I will recheck tyre pressures today.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 15, 2018)

molly 2 said:


> Hope it is nothing to do with your missing electrical connection gissmo .



If it is Baz, you will be getting a letter and the matter will be raised in the House. :lol-053:


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## RoaminRog (Feb 16, 2018)

Took the old girl in at 7am this morning and met with the guys from Laser Track.
They were very thorough and gave her a good going over before bolting on loads of framework for the laser projectors. They very quickly found a problem with the front near side wheel. The toe-in was miles out and after a few minutes of adjusting we took her out on the road. Total perfection !!!
Eagerly looking forward to the trip to the NEC next week, to test her on a long run.
Thank you everybody for your help and suggestions.


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## Wully (Feb 16, 2018)

Happy to hear that we learn somthing new everyday on here sounds like it wasn’t an expensive fix


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## The laird (Feb 16, 2018)

Hope that’s it solved roger,imho laser is the very very first port of call,I at first was very wary about it until I saw some trucks etc that would never had been correctly aligned after Rta damage ,after laser work they also drove perfect 
Good luck mate


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## RoaminRog (Feb 16, 2018)

The laird said:


> Hope that’s it solved roger,imho laser is the very very first port of call,I at first was very wary about it until I saw some trucks etc that would never had been correctly aligned after Rta damage ,after laser work they also drove perfect
> Good luck mate




I believe that they have solved the problem Gordon, because of the much improved handling n the way home. They did say that if I had any further trouble to call them straight back in, so they seem like a company that care! 
I thought I overheard one of them saying that the toe-in was out by about 30mm???


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## RoaminRog (Feb 16, 2018)

The laird said:


> Hope that’s it solved roger,imho laser is the very very first port of call,I at first was very wary about it until I saw some trucks etc that would never had been correctly aligned after Rta damage ,after laser work they also drove perfect
> Good luck mate


They said to call them back if I wasn’t completely satisfied, but judging by the drive home, I think they have nailed it. Thanks again!


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## The laird (Feb 16, 2018)

If it was toe in that much I’d imagine it was like driving on ice and awkward on bends?


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## eddyt (Feb 16, 2018)

hi
   if the toe in was that bad the tyre would wear terrible at that.


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## Tezza33 (Feb 17, 2018)

RoaminRog said:


> I thought I overheard one of them saying that the toe-in was out by about 30mm???


Have you been letting Chris drive Rog, that sounds like somebody has hit the kerb a few times


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## RoaminRog (Feb 17, 2018)

It did feel uncomfortable to drive, but nothing compared to some of the old wrecks I used to drive up the road. The trouble was, it has always been that way, and so I became used to it.
I wouldn’t swear to the 30mm as I was next door getting the coffees in, and it was just an overheard remark as I was coming back in. 
Whatever they did, its a lot bloomin’ better now!


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## winks (Feb 17, 2018)

Lots of good to know stuff there Rog.

I think I'll have the garage check mine out when it goes in for the MOT next month. Haven't got any problems such as you were experiencing but tyres are bloody expensive and a few quid spent on a good alignment could save a lot more later on.

Cheers

H


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## RoaminRog (Feb 17, 2018)

winks said:


> Lots of good to know stuff there Rog.
> 
> I think I'll have the garage check mine out when it goes in for the MOT next month. Haven't got any problems such as you were experiencing but tyres are bloody expensive and a few quid spent on a good alignment could save a lot more later on.
> 
> ...



Laser Track were very thorough, and went through the whole system. Its worth the expense for the peace of mind.
Going to the Show at the NEC next week, and I will report on the handling after the trip.


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## trevskoda (Feb 17, 2018)

Just a small point,if front wheel drive it should be toe out NOT in,norm is one mm but each manfacturer sets the limit.:wave:


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## FalklandRuss (Feb 18, 2018)

Whao, whao, whao...........before you go down the changing all the front suspension route!

Firstly, remember you're drive a slab-sided vehicle...so even a small amount of wind will make it feel like the van's trying to pull one way or t'other.

Secondly, any mechanic worth it, will check your alignment(camber and toe-in/out) and adjust correctly. Any bushes etc worn should be picked up then!

Thirdly, the effect of the make of tyre is minimal (Apart from noise). If they're running true, any tyre will behave.

Get yourself to a reputable tyre establisment (Not one of the big chains) and they will sort it for you. Easy Peasy.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 18, 2018)

FalklandRuss said:


> Whao, whao, whao...........before you go down the changing all the front suspension route!
> 
> Firstly, remember you're drive a slab-sided vehicle...so even a small amount of wind will make it feel like the van's trying to pull one way or t'other.
> 
> ...



I take your point onboard Russ, I have had my share of high-sided heavies and horrendous cross winds together with curtain siders, so I know a little about vehicles misbehaving, but this was very worrying when trying to overtake but after the adjustments it does feel so much better.


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## runnach (Feb 18, 2018)

Glad all seems sorted Rog. and a relatively easy fix.

It should perhaps be remembered that state of the roads , potholes manhole covers and kerbing it doesn't take a lot to knock the geometry out of kilt.

Channa


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## molly 2 (Feb 18, 2018)

The track can change over time  ,over the years the springs can weaken and lower the vehicle  this can have an effect on the track  .


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## Deleted member 56601 (Feb 18, 2018)

I shouldn't come down here to Devon Rog, if the potholes get any deeper, I'm going to try fishing them


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## Les Haro (Feb 18, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> Take you’re wallet out the back cupboard Think weight on tail end has quite a lot to do with front end problems on mhs everythingis off balance so somthings got to give think any kind of upgrade on back suspension on a motor home shoul help front end drift



I would go for back end springs as well, having just driven a van with a broken rear spring that did everything that you mentioned.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 18, 2018)

Les Haro said:


> I would go for back end springs as well, having just driven a van with a broken rear spring that did everything that you mentioned.



Thanks Les, but I have air suspension on the rear axle, so not likely to be a broken spring.


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## The laird (Feb 18, 2018)

Just a thought roger ,you’ve emptied the toilet I hope as it’s not baffled and it could be contributing to the sway ,I might be talking p - - h


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## Miduck (Feb 19, 2018)

*Miduck*



RoaminRog said:


> Our Autotrail Miami is based on a Renault Master. It has a tendancy to wander when driving on straight roads and it gets to the point where my arms ache, trying to keep it in a straight line. This is not something which has just started, thinking about about it, it has always been the same but there have always been other concerns that took preference until now.
> Years ago, I had a Land Rover which did the same and it improved drastically after steering dampers were fitted.
> Before I go down that road, does anyone have suggestions that may help please.



Hi rodg I had the same drifting on my   transit changed the aunty roam bar bottom bushes track road ends ,took for test last week Thursday 15 Feb 2018  they changed king pin and bushes no more drifting so crack on Rob g it works far me I had the sorted back breaks out and parts of egsaust ,,,,, it came to 280pound good look yours miduck


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## RoaminRog (Feb 19, 2018)

Miduck said:


> Hi rodg I had the same drifting on my   transit changed the aunty roam bar bottom bushes track road ends ,took for test last week Thursday 15 Feb 2018  they changed king pin and bushes no more drifting so crack on Rob g it works far me I had the sorted back breaks out and parts of egsaust ,,,,, it came to 280pound good look yours miduck



Thanks for your reply Dave, but I'm hoping that it's sorted now.  The toe in/out was out, by a long way, and it should be fine now.
Nice to hear from you, hope you are keeping well.
Regards Rog.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 19, 2018)

The laird said:


> Just a thought roger ,you’ve emptied the toilet I hope as it’s not baffled and it could be contributing to the sway ,I might be talking p - - h



I don't know where you get the idea that I'm full of s**t Gordon!. Even my enthusiasm for bullsh*t wouldn't be heavy enough to affect the steering........ would it???
Besides, I have a very attractive bottom. I know because at the New Year Party, when I left groups of people, I could just hear them saying "What an arse"!


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## Tezza33 (Feb 19, 2018)

RoaminRog said:


> Besides, I have a very attractive bottom. I know because at the New Year Party, when I left groups of people, I could just hear them saying "What an arse"!


I remember at Rutland that the female members thought I was handsome because I heard them say Tezza33 is staggering

:dance:


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## RoaminRog (Feb 22, 2018)

Well, home now, after a couple of days at the NEC. I’m very happy to report that the handling is greatly improved and I’m very pleased with the effects of the tracking.
Thanks to all for your replies and suggestions.
Happy motoring!
Regards Rog.


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