# So now will they stop blaming motorhomes?



## alwaysared (Mar 30, 2021)

Lake District abandoned campsite shows 'sheer disrespect'
					

Camping equipment and litter were found abandoned despite overnight stays being banned until April.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Regards,
Del


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## Fisherman (Mar 30, 2021)

This has been discussed elsewhere

at-least-the-motorhome-fraternity-cannot-be-blamed-this-time.86225


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## alwaysared (Mar 30, 2021)

Sorry 

Regards,
Del


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## Nabsim (Mar 30, 2021)

The answer is No though Del, they will blame whoever they see when they look round


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## RichardHelen262 (Apr 2, 2021)

They will never stop blaming motorhomes


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## peter palance (Apr 2, 2021)

alwaysared said:


> Lake District abandoned campsite shows 'sheer disrespect'
> 
> 
> Camping equipment and litter were found abandoned despite overnight stays being banned until April.
> ...


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## SquirrellCook (Apr 3, 2021)

As the virus didn’t work, maybe culling them with a shotgun might work?  But seriously in this undisciplined society we live in how can you stop it?  It will take generations of moral guidance to solve this, but we have state funded organisations wanting all children to grow up as savages.


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## trevskoda (Apr 3, 2021)

Parties all over the place here, and riots in Derry/Belfast because a cert party member did not get prosecuted for 2000 turning up at a funeral, i give up.


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## mark61 (Apr 3, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Parties all over the place here, and riots in Derry/Belfast because a cert party member did not get prosecuted for 2000 turning up at a funeral, i give up.


 Your just eggy cause you didn't get an invite


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## Debroos (Apr 3, 2021)

SquirrellCook said:


> As the virus didn’t work, maybe culling them with a shotgun might work?  But seriously in this undisciplined society we live in how can you stop it?  It will take generations of moral guidance to solve this, but we have state funded organisations wanting all children to grow up as savages.


We didn't used to be such litter louts. I was thinking that maybe it is years of festivals that has led the participants to think it is o.k to leave rubbish as it gets cleared up after they leave...part of the entrance fee in fact....maybe...


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## trevskoda (Apr 4, 2021)

Fag buts is my pet hate, streets here are covered with them along with dog leavings.


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## Robmac (Apr 4, 2021)

mark61 said:


> Your just eggy cause you didn't get an invite



Well he do like a good booze up Mark.


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## Robmac (Apr 4, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Fag buts is my pet hate, streets here are covered with them along with dog leavings.



I put my fag ends in my pocket Trev (after flicking the burning ember out!).

It drives Julie mad when she finds them in my jeans back pocket., so she got me a little ashtray with a flip up lid to carry with me. Just the job!


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## RichardHelen262 (Apr 4, 2021)




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## Pedalman (Apr 4, 2021)

SquirrellCook said:


> As the virus didn’t work, maybe culling them with a shotgun might work?  But seriously in this undisciplined society we live in how can you stop it?  It will take generations of moral guidance to solve this, but we have state funded organisations wanting all children to grow up as savages.





RichardHelen262 said:


> View attachment 95887


This mess is left behind by selfish people who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves.  Where are those council officials who normally patrol our streets in plain clothes watching for people dropping cigarette ends and other litter, and handing out fines ?  Surely this behaviour would be a very easy for them to detect ?


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## trevskoda (Apr 4, 2021)

Pedalman said:


> This mess is left behind by selfish people who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves.  Where are those council officials who normally patrol our streets in plain clothes watching for people dropping cigarette ends and other litter, and handing out fines ?  Surely this behaviour would be a very easy for them to detect ?


Think they would get there ar-e kicked on a crowded beach,they would here.


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## mariesnowgoose (Apr 4, 2021)

Pedalman said:


> This mess is left behind by selfish people who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves.  Where are those council officials who normally patrol our streets in plain clothes watching for people dropping cigarette ends and other litter, and handing out fines ?  Surely this behaviour would be a very easy for them to detect ?



Pedalman, I am incandescent with rage that the councils, the law and the govt. allow this sort of behaviour to happen, and that was *before* the pandemic shone a spotlight on what a filthy nation we are.

OK, so it's a wider societal problem - i.e. we have a whole bunch of ignorant & selfish people, as you say, who need 'educating', and if they aren't prepared to be educated, or are too thick to be educated, then you "educate" them by finding other methods, a successful one is hitting them very hard in the pocket.

They caught and fined people breaking covid rules easily enough, so they can very easily make inroads with this problem too - if they wanted to.
Its a no brainer.

DEFRA have a "consultation" on the go about deposits being paid on every type of carry-out drink container.
They had a similar consultation back in 2017, no action followed. Why the hell they need yet another consultation is beyond me. 
Why don't  they just take action on the issues?! 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! 

I guess the "p" will is just not there, so there is no hope of fixing this problem anytime soon.  

I could go a lot further this subject, but will shut up now or I'll be in deep trouble.


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## Fisherman (Apr 4, 2021)

Pedalman said:


> This mess is left behind by selfish people who don't give a crap about anyone but themselves.  Where are those council officials who normally patrol our streets in plain clothes watching for people dropping cigarette ends and other litter, and handing out fines ?  Surely this behaviour would be a very easy for them to detect ?



The problem is simple to solve barriers and 




does the trick every time.


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## mariesnowgoose (Apr 4, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> The problem is simple to solve barriers and
> 
> View attachment 95890
> does the trick every time.



The scenes of litter and rubbish devastation are there for all to see, splashed across all media, and it is 100% obvious that the mess isn't caused by campervan/moho owners.

It has even been reported on mainstream media that a lot of the offenders are the troglodytes who can't get over to the Costas to inflict their disgusting behaviour on the poor Spanish. (NB. they didn't use the phrase troglodytes in the reports  )

But it isn't just the Costa troglodytes. There's plenty of other people who litter indiscriminately too.

I seriously feel like chopping their hands off, if it was legal 

If there is anything good that might come out of this pandemic it might be to really bring the problem of litter and anti-social behaviour to the top of the agenda. If it doesn't, it bl**dy well should do! If not then the only conclusion must be that we have people in positions of public responsibility who aren't doing their jobs properly.


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## Fisherman (Apr 4, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> The scenes of litter and rubbish devastation are there for all to see, splashed across all media, and it is 100% obvious that the mess isn't caused by campervan/moho owners.
> 
> It has even been reported on mainstream media that a lot of the offenders are the troglodytes who can't get over to the Costas to inflict their disgusting behaviour on the poor Spanish. (NB. they didn't use the phrase troglodytes in the reports  )
> 
> ...



Marie two years ago my wife and I spent an awful night in Musselburgh fisherrow carpark. We had water bombs thrown at our van, louts were cursing and swearing on the beech, dog mess was everywhere, the toilets had been messed up, taps left running, loud music till midnight. When we got up next morning the beech was covered with litter. My wife said she did not want to go back there anymore, and on chatting with the couple on the other Moho that morning they said the same. A month later up went barriers and signs. I am optimistic like yourself, but nothing in this country would shock me.


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## mariesnowgoose (Apr 4, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> Marie two years ago my wife and I spent an awful night in Musselburgh fisherrow carpark. We had water bombs thrown at our van, louts were cursing and swearing on the beech, dog mess was everywhere, the toilets had been messed up, taps left running, loud music till midnight. When we got up next morning the beech was covered with litter. My wife said she did not want to go back there anymore, and on chatting with the couple on the other Moho that morning they said the same. A month later up went barriers and signs. I am optimistic like yourself, but nothing in this country would shock me.



Are the barriers height barriers, specifically to prevent mohos?
Or are they general barriers where the car park is locked after a certain time at night?
If it's just height barriers then it won't have solved the problem at all  

Surely the local councils must know that it is local yobs causing the mess and destruction?

Never forget that an awful lot of councils are run by exactly the same types that went viral a short while ago, so the bigger problem is that you're often dealing with "ignorance" - albeit a different kind - on both sides of the divide ...


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## number14 (Apr 4, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> It has even been reported on mainstream media that a lot of the offenders are the troglodytes who can't get over to the Costas to inflict their disgusting behaviour on the poor Spanish. (NB. they didn't use the phrase troglodytes in the reports  )


I think you do a disservice to the original troglodytes.


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## mariesnowgoose (Apr 4, 2021)

number14 said:


> I think you do a disservice to the original troglodytes.



Yes, you're absolutely right - I must apologise!


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## Fisherman (Apr 4, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Are the barriers height barriers, specifically to prevent mohos?
> Or are they general barriers where the car park is locked after a certain time at night?
> If it's just height barriers then it won't have solved the problem all
> 
> ...



They are 2.2 m height barriers for us.
East Lothian council reckon putting up barriers and signs telling us we are not welcome, when there are much worse things going on is justified.


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## mariesnowgoose (Apr 4, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> They are 2.2 m height barriers for us.
> East Lothian council reckon putting up barriers and signs telling us we are not welcome, when there are much worse things going on is justified.



Then East Lothian council must be run by asses.

Actually, that's also an insult - this time to the poor ass! 

Unfortunately you can't legislate against stupidity, whichever side of the law its on


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## Fisherman (Apr 4, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Then East Lothian council must be run by asses.
> 
> Actually, that's also an insult - this time to the poor ass!
> 
> Unfortunately you can't legislate against stupidity, whichever side of the law its on



Oh they are, the local snp councillor told us to go to campsites. East Lothian are proposing that all wild camping will be banned throughout its region, and we will all be herded into one carpark. But sadly, and this is the saddest comment of all, they are supported by some of us.  





__





						East Lothian 'Consultation' i.e. crackdown - Have your say by 1st March 2021
					

Story in the  Edinburgh Evening News   https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/lifestyle/outdoors/motorhome-invasion-claim-council-unveils-overnight-parking-and-wild-camping-crackdown-east-lothian-3117359  Direct link to the consultation...




					wildcamping.co.uk


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## yorkslass (Apr 4, 2021)

What I struggle to understand is WHY their is so much rubbish/litter left behind.I don't remember seeing this when I was younger.Sweetie wrappers went in my pockets as did my daughters.....my pockets as well. Lots of people didn't have much, but what they did have was looked after, Doorsteps and pavements regularly cleaned. It feels like they have a sense of entitlement to do just what they want, wherever they go. I wonder if it started with mums going out to work....not having the time to teach their children how to behave, or is it linked to the decline in youth clubs Kids have always found mischief, but their behaviour now seems to have gone to a different level.

As for street wardens.....they are like most other agencies......they focus on soft targets, Just reading about a warden who targeted a mum, whose toddler dropped a biscuit, because the biscuit wasnt picked up immediately. ....think she had her hands full. I know where I would have told the warden where to stick his/her ticket. 

Just remembered another instances years ago in Grassington. It was Christmas time and a difficult place to parks so dad set off early to find a parking spot. After walking riund a couple of hours we went back to the car to find a parking ticket. Cones had been put out after we parked.....we did get the ticket cancelled,


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## Red Dwarf (Apr 4, 2021)

yorkslass said:


> It feels like they have a sense of entitlement to do just what they want, wherever they go.



Rant time!
You’re spot on, it’s the entitlement thing. It’s everywhere and affecting everything. 
Try dealing with someone in their late twenties who has eaten themselves obese, is now type two diabetic and believes the role of the multiple nhs agencies is to make them better again! God forbid anyone should suggest they stop stuffing their faces.
So with rubbish, it’s much the same. I’m entitled to do what I want and someone else will deal with the consequences of my ignorant stupidity.

As to the reasons why we’re at this point, I guess it’s a number of factors. Education both at home and at school, just look what we don’t teach anymore. But perhaps more importantly, what has happened to self responsibility and self respect?
In my teens during the summer holidays we took jobs on farms, working in hotels or whatever seasonal work was on offer. It was great fun, met some great people and had some great parties. Many kids now have no thought to do this type of work, it’s hard and crap pay. It’s also an education. 

I don’t know the answers, though a rethink of our education policies might be a good start.


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## trevskoda (Apr 4, 2021)

National service must be brought back, make them or break them.


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## Fisherman (Apr 4, 2021)

yorkslass said:


> As for street wardens.....they are like most other agencies......they focus on soft targets,



And that’s what we are, soft targets.


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## number14 (Apr 4, 2021)

Do you remember being sent onto the school playing field to pick up litter, especially if you had forgotten your gym kit? Not done any more; apparently it's demeaning. 

Seems to me these days that so many are experts on their human rights but know very little about their responsibilities.


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## maingate (Apr 4, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> The scenes of litter and rubbish devastation are there for all to see, splashed across all media, and it is 100% obvious that the mess isn't caused by campervan/moho owners.
> 
> It has even been reported on mainstream media that a lot of the offenders are the troglodytes who can't get over to the Costas to inflict their disgusting behaviour on the poor Spanish. (NB. they didn't use the phrase troglodytes in the reports  )
> 
> ...


I also feel the same as you but can you imagine the uproar if the existing Laws were implemented? The Tories are villified as Right Wing Nazis now, so how do you think it would go down if they tried to prevent this behaviour? Priti Patel is already regarded as Cruella De Ville.


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## mark61 (Apr 4, 2021)

maingate said:


> I also feel the same as you but can you imagine the uproar if the existing Laws were implemented? The Tories are villified as Right Wing Nazis now, so how do you think it would go down if they tried to prevent this behaviour? Priti Patel is already regarded as Cruella De Ville.


I always had a soft spot for Cruella


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## SquirrellCook (Apr 4, 2021)

I expect the ones guilty of this behaviour will wealthy people, they probably work in council offices!  The ones I have witnessed and it would be so easy to cure is road maintenance workers.  Even refuse collectors are less than tidy.


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## Fisherman (Apr 4, 2021)

mark61 said:


> I always had a soft spot for Cruella


How soft


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## Debroos (Apr 4, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> Oh they are, the local snp councillor told us to go to campsites. East Lothian are proposing that all wild camping will be banned throughout its region, and we will all be herded into one carpark. But sadly, and this is the saddest comment of all, they are supported by some of us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Fisherman said:


> Oh they are, the local snp councillor told us to go to campsites. East Lothian are proposing that all wild camping will be banned throughout its region, and we will all be herded into one carpark. But sadly, and this is the saddest comment of all, they are supported by some of us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it is a problem that transcends politics. There are anti motorhome councillors of every political party so exercising our vote probably will have no effect, dammit.


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## Fisherman (Apr 4, 2021)

Debroos said:


> I think it is a problem that transcends politics. There are anti motorhome councillors of every political party so exercising our vote probably will have no effect, dammit.


Yes I agree, that councillor could have came from any party.
The fact that he was an snp councillor is irrelevant.
But if you read his reply to one of our posters, his anti motorhome attitude was full of vitriol.
He reckoned that we wild camped solely to save money, and half of us emptied our cassettes in bushes.


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## Debroos (Apr 4, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> Yes I agree, that councillor could have came from any party.
> The fact that he was an snp councillor is irrelevant.
> But if you read his reply to one of our posters, his anti motorhome attitude was full of vitriol.
> He reckoned that we wild camped solely to save money, and half of us emptied our cassettes in bushes.


I am constantly amazed at the number of people who believe that.
Even a friend of mine said she thought we were the main source of shite in the bushes. She didn't sound convinced when I explained otherwise...


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## Boris7 (Apr 4, 2021)

I’ve just read through all this and to be fair it’s a lot of rubbish IMHO (no pun intended)  “rich people to blame” “councils to blame” “stopping motor homes parking” “Priti Petel” “Nazi’s” “National Service” .........

How about some self respect I don’t give a flyer what the council/Police/government or even you lot think, my father never told me to put my rubbish in the bin or in my pocket, he didn’t need to.

Fact is some Motor homers are just filth, same as some council officials, some rich people, some politicians and some service men. There’s a lack of pride and good intention in many people and you’ll not stop them with policy, threat or punishment. They need to find self respect and it ain’t in a sign telling them what to do, it’s in a system that installs it from the start and that don’t exist in this country today.


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## mariesnowgoose (Apr 4, 2021)

Boris7 said:


> Fact is some Motor homers are just filth, same as some council officials, some rich people, some politicians and some service men. *There’s a lack of pride and good intention in many people and you’ll not stop them with policy, threat or punishment*. They need to find self respect and it ain’t in a sign telling them what to do, it’s in a system that installs it from the start and that don’t exist in this country today.



I beg to differ on that one.

Until the education system catches up - highly doubtful, imo -  then the threat, followed by punishment in the form of a fine is a fast fix and *will* make many people think twice, especially if they think they're much more likely to be caught if its higher on the public agenda.

Remember the new smoking laws? This is not my judgement here - I used to be a smoker myself - but smoking is viewed as pretty anti-social by a large section of the public now, and that was directly as a result of the introduction of new policy and laws.

Tackling the problem can take many forms.
For example, stopping free plastic carrier bags at supermarkets by making people pay has definitely made a difference, according to Keep Britain Tidy and Defra.

Unfortunately, the pandemic has now introduced another form of disposable waste that is the scourge of town and countryside - billions of disposable masks and other types of ppe.

The latest discussions are around making retailers of drinks apply a levy/deposit on all drinks containers at the point of purchase. This worked well when I was a kid, no reason why it shouldn't make an impact now? Maybe they are looking into ways of how to deal with other takeaway containers for food etc.?

Unfortunately, even introducing a deposit on drinks containers etc. might not make a deal of difference to the sort of filth who can afford to leave behind whole tents, chairs and other assorted camping goods. The only way to stop those guys (obviously with way too much money waste!) is to catch them and fine them - heavily, not just a mere £200. Make the amount really hurt their finances so they think twice about repeating the offence. I'd name and shame as well.

Let's hope something is done sooner rather than later, for all our sakes.

Boris - all I can say is you must be the son of the Dalai Llama, or some other spiritual master, if you automatically knew that littering was wrong from birth....  respect!


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## trevskoda (Apr 4, 2021)

If I put all my rubbish in a skip/bin there would be no ferniture to sit on.


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## Boris7 (Apr 4, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Boris - all I can say is you must be the son of the Dalai Llama, or some other spiritual master, if you automatically knew that littering was wrong from birth.... respect!



No Marie, he was a truck driver. Massive bloke stupid as mud and hard as nails.

But he had respect for himself and everyone else, he would always say “just do what you know is right, and you won’t go far wrong”


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## Fisherman (Apr 4, 2021)

rr


Debroos said:


> I am constantly amazed at the number of people who believe that.
> Even a friend of mine said she thought we were the main source of shite in the bushes. She didn't sound convinced when I explained otherwise...



Many who make that accusation are not aware that we have toilets, I dread to think where some carry out their ablutions. When you have to go, you have to go.


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## Debroos (Apr 4, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> rr
> 
> 
> Many who make that accusation are not aware that we have toilets, I dread to think where some carry out their ablutions. When you have to go, you have to go.


And yet the people in cars who obviously have no toilets don't seem to get blamed!


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## Fisherman (Apr 4, 2021)

Debroos said:


> And yet the people in cars who obviously have no toilets don't seem to get blamed!



Debroos, nearly every adult either owns or has access to a car. Cars are ubiquitous, their presence in towns and cities in large numbers is normal. But those people in their big boxes who are maybe a bit different stand out, and are an easy target. We are all road users, and we all pay for the privilege, and some including some Motorhome owners abuse that privilege. But because we stand out, are much fewer we are soft targets for special treatment.


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## Thistle (Apr 5, 2021)

I think you are all missing the fundamental problem here, it’s people there are simply far too many people on the planet and we are witnessing the resultant gradual and ever growing breakdown of society, these are symptoms indicative of an increasingly excessive selfish and greedy dog eat dog disrespectful population.  One person dropping a bit of litter often went unnoticed  but a hundred or a thousand doing so has a huge and very visible impact.

Same logic applies to a hundred motorhomes parked at a local beach or beauty spot instead of one or a thousand revellers at a party instead of twenty, wherever too many people congregate there are inevitably problems, complaints, confrontation etc.

The only logical solution is to get rid of the excess people globally, about 4-5 Billion of them should cover it, at least that would give everyone else and more importantly the planet some breathing space for a few decades.

Unfortunately it would be the gluttonous greed driven populations that would need to be culled first and that won’t be a popular starting point!

I really don’t see this situation ever improving, I almost feel grateful that I won’t be around to see things get significantly worse over the coming years but I feel so sorry for what my children will have to live with long after I am gone.


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## Deleted member 40473 (Apr 5, 2021)

Carrot wins over stick every time but for those who don't like carrots we need a bigger stick.


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## Mevi (Apr 5, 2021)

Thistle said:


> I feel so sorry for what my children will have to live with long after I am gone.


The irony


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## Deleted member 42369 (Apr 5, 2021)

There needs to be a concerted campaign to get people to shame others when they litter, like they did with smokers.


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## Fisherman (Apr 5, 2021)

Thistle said:


> I think you are all missing the fundamental problem here, it’s people there are simply far too many people on the planet and we are witnessing the resultant gradual and ever growing breakdown of society, these are symptoms indicative of an increasingly excessive selfish and greedy dog eat dog disrespectful population.  One person dropping a bit of litter often went unnoticed  but a hundred or a thousand doing so has a huge and very visible impact.
> 
> Same logic applies to a hundred motorhomes parked at a local beach or beauty spot instead of one or a thousand revellers at a party instead of twenty, wherever too many people congregate there are inevitably problems, complaints, confrontation etc.
> 
> ...



Sorry but that is a given. The population of Britain (well England actually) is to large for its landmass. And obviously that puts strains and constraints on how we all live. But more importantly it’s not just about numbers it’s about the additional demands that we as individuals put on the resources at our disposal. Whereas 50 years ago most of us did not have cars, fly all over the world, or consume as much resources as we do now these things have been normalised.

But that is not what this debate is all about, it’s about equity and fairness, being treated fairly. We don’t create much of the problems in more urban areas with a tiny proportion of the vehicles travelling there being leisure vehicles, but disproportionally we receive much of the blame, and suffer from much of the flak. There seems to be a campaign by some in power to shall we say sort us out, whilst doing virtually nothing about the real problems that are created in the popular areas of the U.K.

The world is over populated and difficult times are ahead, and possibly in future our pastime may only be available to the lucky few in large underpopulated parts of the world, but that’s not what this debate was about. Just look at the title given by the OP, that sums up what this is all about.


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## Deleted member 40473 (Apr 5, 2021)

Thistle said:


> there are simply far too many people on the planet


Whenever a species, including man, becomes too prolific, nature (or God depending on your convictions) has a way of attempting to balance things out......Fire, floods, pestilence! Successive years worse than the previous.


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## Technispark (Apr 5, 2021)

Thistle said:


> I think you are all missing the fundamental problem here, it’s people there are simply far too many people on the planet and we are witnessing the resultant gradual and ever growing breakdown of society, these are symptoms indicative of an increasingly excessive selfish and greedy dog eat dog disrespectful population.  One person dropping a bit of litter often went unnoticed  but a hundred or a thousand doing so has a huge and very visible impact.
> 
> Same logic applies to a hundred motorhomes parked at a local beach or beauty spot instead of one or a thousand revellers at a party instead of twenty, wherever too many people congregate there are inevitably problems, complaints, confrontation etc.
> 
> ...


Aye well, the planet did at least try when it developed the little covids...... but we have got the better of them now


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## mariesnowgoose (Apr 5, 2021)

Technispark said:


> Aye well, the planet did at least try when it developed the little covids...... but we have got the better of them now



We hope 

Plenty of time for other (bigger and better) plagues and diseases to emerge. 

I reckon Mother Nature will have the last word when we overstep the point of no return (if we haven't already).

If you sh*t big time in the only suitable nest currently available in the universe, don't expect the outcome to be sunshine and roses.

Cassette emptying in the bushes will be least of anyone's worries.


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## Debroos (Apr 5, 2021)

It has been estimated that climate change will reduce the population by 4 or 5 billion...cheerful soul aint I!


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## maingate (Apr 5, 2021)

Debroos said:


> It has been estimated that climate change will reduce the population by 4 or 5 billion...cheerful soul aint I!


You could be right because it is April and I am freezing my bo****ks off today.


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## Thistle (Apr 5, 2021)

Mevi said:


> The irony


Yep, with hindsight if I could rewind the clock I would give having children second thoughts. I adore my three Sons but I do now increasingly worry about what the future has in store for them.


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## Debroos (Apr 5, 2021)

maingate said:


> You could be right because it is April and I am freezing my bo****ks off today.


Hence the term climate change as opposed to global warming


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## Mastodon (Apr 5, 2021)

Red Dwarf said:


> Rant time!
> You’re spot on, it’s the entitlement thing. It’s everywhere and affecting everything.
> Try dealing with someone in their late twenties who has eaten themselves obese, is now type two diabetic and believes the role of the multiple nhs agencies is to make them better again! God forbid anyone should suggest they stop stuffing their faces.
> So with rubbish, it’s much the same. I’m entitled to do what I want and someone else will deal with the consequences of my ignorant stupidity.
> ...


Sadly there are no ‘Parent policies’ so ‘Education policies‘ get the blame... Most schools are litter free because it is challenged and enforced. Compare school grounds to motorway verges and exits and you’ll see where the problem lies. Teachers are responsible for educating children, parents are responsible for raising them.


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## pete99 (Apr 7, 2021)

Mevi said:


> The irony


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## marchhare (Apr 8, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> Sorry but that is a given. The population of Britain (well England actually) is to large for its landmass. And obviously that puts strains and constraints on how we all live. But more importantly it’s not just about numbers it’s about the additional demands that we as individuals put on the resources at our disposal. Whereas 50 years ago most of us did not have cars, fly all over the world, or consume as much resources as we do now these things have been normalised.
> 
> But that is not what this debate is all about, it’s about equity and fairness, being treated fairly. We don’t create much of the problems in more urban areas with a tiny proportion of the vehicles travelling there being leisure vehicles, but disproportionally we receive much of the blame, and suffer from much of the flak. There seems to be a campaign by some in power to shall we say sort us out, whilst doing virtually nothing about the real problems that are created in the popular areas of the U.K.
> 
> The world is over populated and difficult times are ahead, and possibly in future our pastime may only be available to the lucky few in large underpopulated parts of the world, but that’s not what this debate was about. Just look at the title given by the OP, that sums up what this is all about.


my favourite saying:- I WAS BORN AT THE RIGHT TIME !!.......1938, and laughing  my head off at all the crap going on out there, snowflakes and wokes, leading the way, happy days!!!


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## pete99 (Apr 8, 2021)

Mevi said:


> The irony


Spot on


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