# wild camp in a caravan



## jayeastanglia (Mar 23, 2010)

I sold my old bedford cf motorhome a few months ago and have bought a caravan..mainly done this as fancied a change..plus i can use the caravan for my own work and its saves me buying 2 lots of insurance tax etc..
Does anyone else wild camp in a caravan.I sort of remember a thread but couldnt find it..
This was me at the weekend in a nice secluded lane near mersea island in essex.Had 2 loverly nights here and during the day went visiting places..Had a few cheerful hellos from the locals including a farmer who asked if I was staying put till the next day as he wanted to get his tractor sprayer on the field next day,





Thats a bridleway i am parked in and no way can you drive down as about 50 metres in there was a rusty locked gate all overgrown,


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## lebesset (Mar 23, 2010)

yes , I did all over europe for more than 20 years 
used to use volvo240's but then changed to audi quattro's 

personally I prefer it but my tabbert comptesse [ like the gypsies ] and I both got old , so now we settle for a 6 metre A class hymer as our downsided outfit 

point is that wherever people wildcamped in motorhomes we could as well , we used the quid pro quo system and parked beside someone who was going to be about for the day , then did the same for them 

how far did we get? about 40 countries ...i admit some of them were pretty small so maybe 30 real ones 

but I do miss the comfort of a quality car with no rattles


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## cipro (Mar 23, 2010)

I watched a program a while back and years ago you could sleep in a 
caravan anywhere, and I think it is *illegal now *and you can only stay on campsites or anywhere Else except the highway.

Me, I'm not bothered where you stay caravan and MH the like


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## John H (Mar 23, 2010)

cipro said:


> I watched a program a while back and years ago you could sleep in a
> caravan anywhere, and I think it is *illegal now *and you can only stay on campsites or anywhere Else except the highway.
> 
> Me, I'm not bothered where you stay caravan and MH the like



I think cipro may be right but we have seen caravans wilding from Scotland to Greece and the only time the police were interested was on an official aire in Caceres (Spain) where they turned off a Spanish caravan while four foreign motorhomes (including us) were allowed to stay and continue to use, for free, Spanish electricity and water. Funny old world, isnt it?


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## AndyC (Mar 24, 2010)

John H said:


> I think cipro may be right but we have seen caravans wilding from Scotland to Greece and the only time the police were interested was on an official aire in Caceres (Spain) where they turned off a Spanish caravan while four foreign motorhomes (including us) were allowed to stay and continue to use, for free, Spanish electricity and water. Funny old world, isnt it?


I think in most of Europe motorhomes are classed as cars, so can park where cars are allowed. If you stop with a caravan it's classed as camping.

In the UK it's the other way around, motorhomes are classed as caravans...

AndyC


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## Pioneer (Mar 24, 2010)

I thought it was all about, having the caravan legs down, then this was classed as camping and not stopping

I would imagine it to be quite difficult to wildcamp in certain area's with a caravan, narrow lanes and such like, but hey, enjoy it.
I have problems down some of the lanes here in Wales with the MH and I know Aj does, he as the scratch marks to prove it

Happy Camping


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## PaulC (Mar 24, 2010)

cipro said:


> I think it is *illegal now *and you can only stay on campsites


Well I think that may be so in National Parks! But as far as elsewhere I'm not too sure. But there is a law that PC Plod has to get a court order to move on six or more vehicles, but this is really for "travellers". Near me a few caravans with Irish travellers turn up ever year and park on public land, but leave after about a week. Not sure what it means! But was there not action in some seaside towns against wild camping last year? A case of suck it and see, I think.


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## jayeastanglia (Mar 24, 2010)

I have asked that very question if it illegal to park up for the night in a caravan on a police and highway forum i use..Will post back any answers i get back from them..


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## Deleted member 967 (Mar 24, 2010)

jayeastanglia said:


> I have asked that very question if it illegal to park up for the night in a caravan on a police and highway forum i use..Will post back any answers i get back from them..



Under the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act (1960) it is not permitted to station a Caravan (a vehicle or trailer adapted for human habitation) on any land unless a licence from the Local Authority or a certificate from an exempted club is held.

The Local Authority enforce this not the Police.  It is the land owner that they prosecute not the traveller.  The Police become involved it the traveller has been asked by the landowner to move on and refuses to do so.  This then becomes trespass.

Since the EU allowed commercial vehicle drivers to sleep in their cabs a grey area has been created for Motorhomes.  A sleeper cab goods vehicle is a dual purpose vehicle.  A motorhome that carries goods ie. a bike or has a garage could also be classed as dual purpose.

Motorhomes are classed as Camping Cars and are permitted to stay on Aires (Car Parks).  Caravans are not permitted to stay on Aires.


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## jayeastanglia (Mar 24, 2010)

was given this link
Motorhome Friendly and Unfriendly Parking - Overnight Camping on Major Roads

and here is my Q and so far at time of this post just the 1 answer which gave me the above link..
wild camping in a caravan..legal or not - UKPOLICEONLINE Discussion Forum


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## Nolly (Mar 24, 2010)

Wild camped all over France for 10 years with caravan and Landrover with no probs. Only used MH aires for vidange.


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## lebesset (Mar 25, 2010)

what's this about motor homes being classed as camping cars and allowed to stay on aires [ car parks [ ; and caravans are not 

which law do I find this regulation in please ?


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## Deleted member 967 (Mar 26, 2010)

lebesset said:


> what's this about motor homes being classed as camping cars and allowed to stay on aires [ car parks [ ; and caravans are not
> 
> which law do I find this regulation in please ?



In the UK Motorhomes are classed as caravans under the Public Health Act 1937 and The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960.

In other EU contries the law is different for towed caravans and Motorhomes which are classed as Camping Cars.

In the UK the law sees no difference between Towed Caravans and Self Propelled Caravans.

I used the this difference to explain why in Spain, a Spanish towed caravan was turned off an Aire while visitors in Motorhomes were allowed to stay.


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## lebesset (Mar 26, 2010)

in that case john , as the law sees no difference between the motorhome and the caravan , either both or neither can stay , exactly the opposite of what you said previously


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## Deleted member 967 (Mar 26, 2010)

lebesset said:


> in that case john , as the law sees no difference between the motorhome and the caravan , either both or neither can stay, exactly the opposite of what you said previously



As I said in a previous post.  In the UK there is no difference.  The rule is that Caravans/Motorhomes are not allowed to park on land without the owners consent at any time.  A licence or exemption must be held for land to be used as a caravan park under the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 (Caravans) or the Public Health Act 1937 (Camping)
.  
A landowner has 28 days potential use allowance under the above laws before the Local Authority Planners can take action against him. (ie. one unit for a maximum of 28 days in a 12 month period.  If the holding is over 5 acres then no more that 3 units at any one time.)  
Do not confuse this with a Certificated site stay being limited to 28 days.

The EU allowed driver of commercial vehicles with sleeping compartments to remain in their vehicles during rest periods.  Before this in the UK it was against the law to be with your vehicle during a rest period.  This presented a grey area in law allowing commercial drivers to sleep in their vehicle in laybys etc. but Motorhomes need to find a site.

I have discussed this anomaly with Natural England and they agree that the UK caravan laws needs to be updated, but that it will not happen in the forseeable future due to the cost of preparing new legislation.  In the meantime they will turn a blind eye to motorhome users staying off site.  However it is the Local Authority Planning officers who enforce this, not Natural England.  If a jobsworth decides to take enforcement action on a landowner, the landowner can only fight it in court.  A defence that he has posted no overnight stopping signs could be used as showing he had not given approval to the traveller stopping on his land.  Some no stopping signs however are the result of a bylaw and are enforcible in law.

If the landowner askes a Motorhome driver to move and he refuses, then the police can be called to enforce tresspass laws.  

In short, Wild Camping in a Caravan or Motorhome is illegal in the UK.  It is up to us not to invoke action by the authorities that could result is those places that we are able to use, being closed to us.

Do not confuse the position in the UK with that of European Countries.  Each country has its own laws.

UK Local Authorities can allow overnight parking/sleeping in vehicle under the 1960 Act on land they own or control.  This is how we have some UK aires.

I enjoy the sense of freedom that wildcamping give and would hate to lose what little opportunities we have to continue the life.

I do not want to come across as a barrack room lawyer.  As an exemption certificate holder for a club I had to go into all aspects of these laws on behalf of our members.


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## Captain (Mar 26, 2010)

"I do not want to come across as a barrack room lawyer. As an exemption certificate holder for a club I had to go into all aspects of these laws on behalf of our members".

John, it's good to have someone on board who has your knowledge. I'm sure I'm not the only one around here that appreciates it.


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## jayeastanglia (Apr 2, 2010)

Well had a copper knock on the door this morning at 11am just to see if i was ok as he had a call from a person who had seen us parked up ..He told me that parking where i am is legal and if he hadnt had a call would have just driven past with no issues...We had a chat and he was even saying if he had more spare time he would do the same...He also said and this applys to all wild campers"If asked to move either by police or land owner you should then move on ASAP..


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## n8rbos (Apr 2, 2010)

jayeastanglia said:


> Well had a copper knock on the door this morning at 11am just to see if i was ok as he had a call from a person who had seen us parked up ..He told me that parking where i am is legal and if he hadnt had a call would have just driven past with no issues...We had a chat and he was even saying if he had more spare time he would do the same...He also said and this applys to all wild campers"If asked to move either by police or land owner you should then move on ASAP..



jay i want to thank you for all the hard work and time you've taken to try to come up with some sort of answer! good luck m8 and stay out of trouble!


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## PaulC (Apr 2, 2010)

jayeastanglia said:


> He told me that parking where i am is legal..


So how/where where you parked?


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## jayeastanglia (Apr 7, 2010)

legal jargan about parking this came from the polie forum....

Heathland is covered by this :
Section 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 provides the offence of driving a mechanically propelled vehicle without lawful authority on common land, moorland or land not forming part of a road, or on any road which is a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway.
34(1) Subject to the provisions of the section, if without lawful authority a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle-
(a) on to or upon any common land, moorland or land of any other description, not being land forming part of a road, or
(b) on any road being a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway
he is guilty of an offence.

34(2) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b), a way shown in a definitive map and statement as a footpath, bridleway or restricted byway is without prejudice to section 56(1) of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, to be taken to be a way of the kind shown, unless the contrary is proved.
34(2A) It is not an offence under this section for a person with an interest in land, or a visitor to any land, to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road if, immediately before the commencement of section 47(2) of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, the road was-
(a) shown in a definite map and statement as a road used as a public path, and
(b) in use for obtaining access to the land by the driving of mechanically propelled vehicles by a person with an interest in the land or by visitors to the land.
34(3) It is not an offence under this section to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle on any land within fifteen yards of a road, being a road on which a motor vehicle may lawfully be driven, for the purpose only of parking the vehicle on that land.
34(4) A person shall not be convicted of an offence under this section with respect to a vehicle if he proves to the satisfaction of the court that it was driven in contravention of this section for the purpose of saving life or extinguishing fire or meeting any other like emergency.
34(5) It is hereby declared that nothing in this section prejudices the operation of:-
(a) section 193 of the Law of Property Act 1925 (rights of the public over commons and waste lands), or
(b) any byelaws applying to any land,
or affects the law of trespass to land or any right or remedy to which a person may by law be entitled in respect of any such trespass or in particular confers a right to park a vehicle on any land.
34(6) Subsection (2) above does not extend to Scotland.
34(7) In this section-
DEFINITIVE MAP AND STATEMENT has the same meaning as in Part III of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981;
INTEREST, in relation to land, includes any estate in land and any right over land (whether exercisable by virtue of the ownership of an estate or interest in the land or by virtue of a licence or agreement) and, in particular, includes rights of common and sporting rights;
MECHANICALLY PROPELLED VEHICLE does not include a vehicle falling within paragraph (a), (b) or © of section 189 of this Act; and

RESTRICTED BYWAY means a way over which the public have restricted byway rights within the meaning of Part II of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, with or without a right to drive animals of any description along the way, but no other rights of way.
Note
In accordance with section 48(4) of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, restricted byway means a highway over which the public have restricted byway rights, with or without a right to drive animals of any description along the highway, but no other rights of way.
34(8) A person-
(a) entering any land in exercise of rights conferred by virtue of section 2(1) of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, or
(b) entering any land which is treated by section 15(1) of that Act as being accessible to the public apart from that Act,
is not for the purpose of subsection (2A) a visitor to the land.
Summary: Fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale
Arrest without warrant


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## cipro (Apr 7, 2010)

Bloody hell what a load of jargon jibbery rubbish

I started to read it then I nearly slashed my wrists


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## Scotsbob (Apr 7, 2010)

*Wild camping in caravan*

with your Van & Caravan wildcamping up here in N E Scotland you may well be mistaken for the travelling gypos ( locally called minkers) who congregate in public places and leave horrible mess & rubbish when they leave.  the Police
and local council do nothing about them as they are "a ethnic minority", but
its us the local ratepayers who have to pay for the mess etc they leave behind.  So if you are up in this area, be careful where you park up.


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