# HGV entitlement  and over 75



## Mad Manx (Apr 9, 2012)

Does anyone know what happens when you get to  75 years of age and  you fail  the medical for HGV entailment ! What you end up being restricted too ? Car or 7.5 ton and what type of Trailer.


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## Mad Manx (Apr 9, 2012)

***** said:


> Pretty sure you will be restricted to 3500kg



What about trailer and GVTW hes thinking of down sizing to a fifth wheel motor 
like this one

JC Motorhomes - Keystone Mountaineer


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## Mad Manx (Apr 9, 2012)

***** said:


> And a trailer up to 750kg
> If you go over that you would need B+E and the dreaded medical



So this is not going to work then :idea:


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## Deleted member 967 (Apr 9, 2012)

***** said:


> And a trailer up to 750kg
> If you go over that you would need B+E and the dreaded medical



The age is 70 that you loose your grandfather rights to drive vehicle over 3500kg up to 7500kg (Group C1, C1+E) or minibuses (group D1).  You need the same medical as HGV at 70 and every three years after that. Full HGV is group C vehicle over 7500kg. HGV need the medical every year.  B is vehicle up to 3500kg. A is Automatic transmission only.

Joan has had the medical at the end of last year, as you need to apply to retain your GF rights for C1+E at the renewal at age 70 or you loose it.  You need to apply for your renewal licence about 90 days before you are 70.  The medical is with your own doctor (or any other doctor, but then DVLA will still need to contact your doctor to check your medical history) and the cost can be up to £150 (Joan paid £115).  The medical is not that bad provided any problems are under control (ie Blood Presure).

As ***** says to tow over 750kg requires a trailer (catergory E) on you licence for the group B or C1  If you had this before 70 you can retain it after.

Info here: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/NeedANewOrUpdatedLicence/DG_4022086

And what you can drive here:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/WhatCanYouDriveAndYourObligations/DG_4022547


John


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## antiquesam (Apr 9, 2012)

I would think you still have grandfather rights to 7.5 tonne.


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## vwalan (Apr 9, 2012)

unfortunately no one as grandfather rights after 70. if you have hgv at 65 you will require medicals annually. every one at 70 .requires medicals to retain the 3.5ton to 7.5 ton licence. if you fail you only keep up to 3,500kg . there are at the moment allowances that allow a vehicle upto 3,500kg to tow any weight trailer so long as t doesnt break the trainweight of the towing unit . this is for pre 97 licences . thats why a 5er or mini artic is the way for older folk. no medical required for this . it allows about 11-12 ton train weight on a b+e licence .


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## m30 (Apr 9, 2012)

I was talking to my father about this only the other day. He was under the impression that if you surender your hgv license before it expires you get to keep the other rights.
It may be worth a look 

Stu


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## vwalan (Apr 9, 2012)

hi ,think i miss led you on the last post .you loose the grandfather rights on the c1+e .but not the pre 97 b+e . that allows greater train weights than c1+e. b+e allows enormous train weights and you carry that through even after 70 with no medicals . mini artics are the way. . you cant use them as a true artic as it can overload the tow unit .but use the down plated unit .(could be from 7,500kg gvw )they keep their original train weight. i know it sounds daft but its true . i do speak with vosa about this on regular occasions we laugh about it. 
mine could be down plated to 3,500kg gvw . keep its train of 9.800kg i move the axles forward on the trailer and relieve the weight on the pin . at 70 i can use its full weight for the train .i keep the same truck and almost the same trailer . daft . but true.


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## Deleted member 967 (Apr 9, 2012)

Info on towing here  
The driving licence you need to tow a caravan or trailer : Directgov - Motoring




> Car licences held before 1 January 1997
> 
> All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM.
> 
> Drivers who hold subcategory C1+E - limited to 8.25 tonnes MAM, may apply for provisional entitlement to the new subcategory C1+E, in order to take and pass the test which will increase their combined vehicle and trailer entitlement to 12 tonnes MAM. It is not necessary to gain subcategory C1 entitlement first but drivers have to meet higher medical standards, and pass both the category C theory test and the subcategory C1+E practical test.



So you can tow with a vehicle up to 3500kg (B) and a trailer (+E) as long as the total does not exceed 8.25 tonnes MAM.  You need the medical and to pass a test to tow over 8.25 tonnes up to 12 tonnes MAM.  It would appear that there are two C1+E licence categories.  

To drive a motorhome/RV over 3500kg to 7500kg requires the medical and C1+E.

New rules for trailers from 2013  New rules for towing trailers with a car or small vehicle : Directgov - Motoring

John


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## Mad Manx (Apr 9, 2012)

My Dad is 76 this year with glaucoma, he keeps passing medical and eye tests for PSV and HGV but he is worried about when he fails the medical!
He is thinking of down sizing for 20 ton wagon and drag( Magnum motor-home, the trailer has 4x4 and workshop in it).
To a 4x4 with a fifth wheel Motor-home, that he can park up and the use the 4x4 for exploring in and the odd trip to the shops.
I think he should get a 130 Land Rover Defender with as big a demountable camper body as possible! 
The law is slightly different over here and can at times be interpreted by the government testing centre! and subsequently enforced ( judge, jury and executioner )
Which he has been a thorn in the side of for as long as i can remember :rolleyes2:


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## vwalan (Apr 9, 2012)

hi never saw your address ,but you can see what i use. 
the mitsubishi canter is smaller than most 4x4,s . yes it looks big in the pic . but i tow a twenty foot lynton trailer .as in the pic. if i get to 70 i will still be using this i hope . its the way forward . as a good train in the use your dad wants . i have at the moment left mine at6.3 ton but lowered the trailer to 3.500kg . its a living van now . its completely mot exempt thats why i have it . 
is the isle of man that different on licensing?
i also run mine on disabled road tax as the truck is my car. ideal. all legal and above board .
i like the sound of your dad seems a nice bloke. luckily i get on well with vosa and the dvla round here.
they all know me as the one that asks questions they dont know the answer to. till i tell them then they have to check it out. all good fun.


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## Deleted member 967 (Apr 9, 2012)

> All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM.
> 
> Category B   Motor car and light goods vehicle with up to 9 seats up to 3,500 kg MAM
> 
> ...



To drive with a MAM of 12 tonnes you would need to have passed a further test and have a medical as far as the Gov Info goes Alan

John


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## vwalan (Apr 9, 2012)

hi thats why i put 11-12 ton . on a b+e any weight trailer as long as the trainweight of tow unit isnt broken. you would have to be less than twelve .the gov dont very easily say any thing about pre 97 lic.but keep going on about c1+e . b+e is far better than c1+e. plus no medical. 
iveco build anice 3,500kg gvw artic its dropped from 4.5ton .but as a train of 8,700kg 
hope you can read this its abit crap. but explains the iveco.
might need a bit of zoom.


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## vwalan (Apr 9, 2012)

john .you are missing the bit about if you passed your test before then you keep the weights of the day you passed your test. 
the new rules dont change anything for pre 97 lic holders . its confusing i know they try to word it so you dont get it right.


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## Deleted member 967 (Apr 10, 2012)

***** said:


> So what you have printed John is that pre 97 tests don't need the medical for B + E



Yes *****.

Follow the links in my previous posts and then some in them and everything I have posted is there.

John


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## Deleted member 967 (Apr 11, 2012)

***** said:


> The strange thing is that his vehicle is reg at 3800kg and both DVLA and VOSA have told him that he is ok to drive it as long as he stays below 3500kg.
> Myself, I think he is driving a vehicle which he is not licensed to drive, which was why he asked the question in the first place.
> So on one hand they say no to over 3500kg and on the other hand they say it is ok.
> Mixed signals!



I think the same as you *****.

It is the MAM of the vehicle that counts not its actual laden in C1  C1+E.    If the MAM is over 3500kg it is C1.  

On the other point of continuing entitlement.  If your licence was issued before 1997 you retain category E with calegory B when you renew at 70, so are not restricted to 750kg trailers.  Different rules apply to different issue dates, there are 4 of them listed on the website. 

I have recieved a letter from DVLA medical group which states that I can continue to drive C1+E up to 7500kg (code 107) at 70 (next year) although I have reduced vision in one eye.  However I will lose the right to D1 minibusses over 9 seats (not for hire or reward) as my eyes do not meet the higher eye sight requirement for C and D & D1.  Code 107 indicates that I am restricted to 7500kg and not 12000kg on C1.  It also shows code 01 for each category which means I wear glasses while driving.  Its all on the plastic licence.  

I held a Full PSV licence (Double Decker) that expired before the licence was incorporated into the normal driving licence document. I held the PSV despite my eye problem which I have had from childhood.   I lost the entitlement to drive minibusses with over 16 seats (not for hire and reward) when the new plastic licence was issued.  Before this I could drive any bus (not for hire and reward), with the old green licence.  They say check you licence when you get it back, but don't inform you of changes like this.  Its all in the small print.

Joan is still waiting for her licence to be returned as they cocked up the dates on her renewal and she had to return it to Swansea.  She passed the medical and retained C1+E.  They issued the licence on 20th December. Her birthday was early March but they dated the new licence from 20th December and not March as it should have been.  They ask you to send the licence in 90 days before the renewal date.   I can see many more problems when DVLA close the local offices and everything is centalised on Swansea.  We needed the licence in our hands while we were away in Jan/Feb so returned it 2nd March.

John


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## vwalan (Apr 11, 2012)

hi john .you would have required medicals at 45 to keep the psv and ever 5 years upto 65 then ever year since.
c1+e for pre 97 licences as always had restriction 107.
d1+e had a code119 ,,weight limit does not apply. 
every driver that hadnt a medical and that couldnt prove they drove psv not for hire and reward lost this in 1991 ,it may have not been known to you untill you changed your licence.it was valid up untill the expiy date shown on the licence. or exchanged it .
just tried to up a pic of the leaflet issued in 91 but it wont load. 
it was actually at this time i started getting involved in transport .there was alot of campaigning at the time. you could pay 20quid and keep it if you had a medical. many hgv drivers just payed 20quid to keep it .specialy if you were a mechanic as you needed it to drive on test runs. hgv licence  renewed every 5 yrs .in 1991 was the start of the combined licencing .


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## vwalan (Apr 11, 2012)

.hi john i got an upload . i hope this document covered the change in 91 .it was kept abit secret .the truck boys kicked up hell but it made no difference. it was the start of licence changing . it was the start of the c1 and d1 . etc. untill then you had group a.this should explain it i hope.


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## Deleted member 967 (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks for that Alan.

John


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## vwalan (Apr 11, 2012)

hope it explains what happened . i was just starting transport management then ,its my first leaflet in my collection. it all came in the back door .hardly anyone was told .luckily the manager at our local vosa test station was giving them out. there was hell played by drivers that knew but it happened. cant be many copies of that leaflet left i think. found mine to be usefull. lots of sellotape keep it intact. but hope it explains enough. cheers alan.


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## vwalan (Apr 24, 2012)

yes you need a medical if you use a vehicle with a gvw of over 3,500kg . thats c1.
 but if the vehicle is under 3,500kg thats b.as you keep the +e part at 70yr old .you can pull any weight trailer so long as the train weight of towing unit isnt broken. 
so if you have the right unit you can pull well over 8.250kg and be legal .but only with a b+e. 
b+e is greater train than a c1+e with restriction 107 not more than 8250kg.


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