# Suspected Engine Issue/ T4,  X1 engine - burning oil - advice for best POA



## Wisewoman (Aug 30, 2021)

Hi everyone,

My beloved 30 years old T4 camper conversion - Daenerys- has started drinking oil - it’s been getting slowly worse over last two years ( didnt drive her much last year for obvious reasons ).

I can now confirm that she is emitting black coloured smoke at high Revs - ie going up a steep hill in second . Combined with the fact that oil is disappearing ( likely being burnt) I’m thinking it’s the rings ? 

This hasn’t been enough for me to notice when looking out the rear view mirror- but recently I had a ftiend follow me and he saw the smoke appearing when I was going up a steep hill in second.

Now, 8 years ago she had new top end due to head gasket failure and cracked cylinder - this included new cylinder head , hydraulics and cam shaft.

I know very little about engines - given the above info what’s my best Plan of Action ? New short engine / bottombit of engine - or do I just send this engine off for reconditioning / part exchange it for a factory reconditioned X1 ( or it might by 1X?)

Also she’s a shortnose - which may affect what engines I can use if I go for full engine replacement ? I don’t really know.

current mileage - 147000 and I use 10/40 oil. 

she is running absolutely fine - I just keep having to keep topping the oil up .

I’ve spent much money on her over the years and I _know _her - so am thinking I defo want to get it sorted than write her off - I love her! Many other bits on her are new starter, master cylinder etc. Etc

I dont have unlimited amounts of money but I do want to get her back up and running in the most cost effective way .

my engine knowledge is rudimentary at best.

In another related thought - if I end up having to have engine out - which seems likely - should I also consider redoing gearbox ? Or can that always be done separately on these engines at a later date ? ( there’s nothing wrong with my gearbox at the present!)

how easy is it to get a factory recon engine of this type? What recommended / quality engine recon firms should I try ?

many thanks,
Melissa


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## Deleted member 56601 (Aug 30, 2021)

Have you checked the cooling water for signs of oil?


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## dunfillin (Aug 30, 2021)

You say that you are losing oil but normally if it's being burnt in the cylinders then the smoke would be bluish and not black which is more common with an over rich fuel mixture.


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## mjvw (Aug 30, 2021)

Place a white sheet under the engine bay with the under cover off if it's still on or is it  soaked with oil they can make great drip trays.
Checking to see if you have any other leaks visible on the white sheet.


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## maingate (Aug 30, 2021)

Is the engine breather blocked? Should be easy enough to clean. Some engines have a rubber hose to recirculate back into the rocker box cover. Check the hoses.


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2021)

Could be and sounds like rings and bore wear, either replace the engine or have it rebuilt which should include rebore pistons rings and the crank reground, not forgetting all the seals and gaskets.
If it wear me id be looking a low milage engine from a rightoff wagon, something with around 50th miles.
Cost of a rebuilt motor will be in excess of 5 grand which I think is silly to do.
You may find that the oil could be coming down the vale guides as the seals may be hardened and work guides, but doing a top end rebuild only to find bore gone is a waste of money, engine swapout id say.


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2021)

maingate said:


> Is the engine breather blocked? Should be easy enough to clean. Some engines have a rubber hose to recirculate back into the rocker box cover. Check the hoses.


Good point well thought of, first thing to look at


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## Wisewoman (Aug 30, 2021)

Hi there




Edina said:


> Have you checked the cooling water for signs of oil?


yep - coolant system is fine -and no signs of oil.
Melissa


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## Wisewoman (Aug 30, 2021)

maingate said:


> Is the engine breather blocked? Should be easy enough to clean. Some engines have a rubber hose to recirculate back into the rocker box cover. Check the hoses.


Hi there - could this cause loss of oil though ?  I haven’t checked it but will do.
Cheers,
Melissa


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## Wisewoman (Aug 30, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Could be and sounds like rings and bore wear, either replace the engine or have it rebuilt which should include rebore pistons rings and the crank reground, not forgetting all the seals and gaskets.
> If it wear me id be looking a low milage engine from a rightoff wagon, something with around 50th miles.
> Cost of a rebuilt motor will be in excess of 5 grand which I think is silly to do.
> You may find that the oil could be coming down the vale guides as the seals may be hardened and work guides, but doing a top end rebuild only to find bore gone is a waste of money, engine swapout id
> ...



Hi Trev ,
Will something like an emissions test help confirm things - not sure how the mechanics go about confirming these things .
I’m going to get the vans mechanic to look at her later this week hopefully.
Hope you and your family are well. 

Melisaa


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2021)

Wisewoman said:


> Hi there - could this cause loss of oil though ?  I haven’t checked it but will do.
> Cheers,
> Melissa


Yes it can as the sump will be pressurised and force oil up the bore and down the valve guides, take the rocker oil cap of when ticking over and see if there is sucking and blowing, place your hand over it also which will tell lots, should be mild sucking and blowing, if heavy then look at the breather sys to airbox for blockages.


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## SquirrellCook (Aug 30, 2021)

With an engine of that age it's probably well over due a rebore and new complete pistons.  If all the head work has been done it should be very cheap to rebuild.
If it's had regular oil changes the crank should be ok, but I'd change the bearing shells just for the sake of it.  One thing that did suffer on those engines was the oil pump.  If you can find someone to do the labour I can rebore it for you if it was brought to me clean.


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2021)

Wisewoman said:


> Hi Trev ,
> Will something like an emissions test help confirm things - not sure how the mechanics go about confirming these things .
> I’m going to get the vans mechanic to look at her later this week hopefully.
> Hope you and your family are well.
> ...


No admission test will only confirm its burning oil but will not show the fault


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## mistericeman (Aug 30, 2021)

Compression test (wet and dry readings) will help to confirm ring/bore wear.... 
IF the engine does come out its worth fitting a new clutch whilst it's out... 
Not expensive whilst things are in bits BUT a pain IF it needs doing later.


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## Robmac (Aug 30, 2021)

Might be worth talking to these people;






						The Engine Shop Ltd
					

We are a UK based VW engine re-manufacture offering engines and gearboxes




					www.theengineshop.info
				




Apparently they have a good reputation for replacement engines if it comes to it.


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## Wisewoman (Aug 30, 2021)

Robmac said:


> Might be worth talking to these people;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for that Robmac - the entire engine off there is cheaper than what I thought it would be - guess a big chunk will need to go towards fitting it though!


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## SquirrellCook (Aug 30, 2021)

I’m not saying they are all bad, but I’d never buy an exchange anything. That’s how people get rid of their rubbish. You have a known tired engine, give it a birthday and it’ll make both of you happy.


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## wildebus (Aug 30, 2021)

Wisewoman said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> My beloved 30 years old T4 camper conversion - Daenerys- has started drinking oil - it’s been getting slowly worse over last two years ( didnt drive her much last year for obvious reasons ).
> 
> ...


You haven't said what engine you have?

a popular option for the 1.9 Diesels is to buy an old VW that is fitted with a 1.9Tdi and transplanting the engine.  That is very often cheaper than buying a replacement engine on its own.   Obviously you would need to find someone to fit it but end of the day you will get a much better engine than the standard 1.9D/TD.
the 2.5TDi are a different matter but I believe the Volvo T70 2.5 can be a donor with a bit of messing  (basically same engine with different sump)

From memory, the only engine that might have needed the Long Nose front was the big Petrol, and you are unlikely to want to fit one of those  (unless you own a Petrol Station).


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## vanmandan (Aug 31, 2021)

if engine power seems normal, my money's on the valve seals.

good luck.


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## dunfillin (Aug 31, 2021)

See my post #3 yesterday.
If the smoke is black and not blue then it's not oil but unburnt fuel (over rich mixture) and if it was the valve seals letting oil past into the cylinders then that would be on the over run with throttle closed and not going going uphill at high revs.


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## ricc (Aug 31, 2021)

How much oil is actually disappearing, how often does it need topping up?...as others have said burnt oil is white.    Black smoke is a too much fuel or lack of air issue,. Possibly mega bucks on injectors or injection pump. Exchange engine may need you to use your old ones and end up with same problem. Known good complete used engine is often the cheapest least hassle way to go.

If engine is running fine, and topping up is livable with a few gallons of oil is far cheaper than an engine rebuild or swap.


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## Wisewoman (Aug 31, 2021)

wildebus said:


> You haven't said what engine you have?
> 
> a popular option for the 1.9 Diesels is to buy an old VW that is fitted with a 1.9Tdi and transplanting the engine.  That is very often cheaper than buying a replacement engine on its own.   Obviously you would need to find someone to fit it but end of the day you will get a much better engine than the standard 1.9D/TD.
> the 2.5TDi are a different matter but I believe the Volvo T70 2.5 can be a donor with a bit of messing  (basically same engine with different sump)
> ...


Its a 1.9 diesel - nothing fancy, no turbo - I think they called it the 1X.

I had a word with another friend last night - and he thinks that I should use  something called Wins? injector cleaner and thinks it may just be injectors not atomising correctly? I'm getting the mechanic I use to have a look at her later on this week.

My friend also suggested that if it turns out tot be the engine - I should try to get this one reconditioned - so I may need to know a good company who will do that.

With regards to oil - my dipstick is going down roughly 5mm every 500 miles - certainly not mega-bucks on oil costs. I am going to put a white sheet under her again tonight to see if any oil appears, but i do think its likely being burnt. For example coming back from Scotland recently, In a 600 mile journey done over 11 hours, I checked oil before and after, it had definitely lost some on dipstick level.

Thanks everyone,
Melissa


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## wildebus (Aug 31, 2021)

Something that people make the occasional mistake with ... they "treat" their engine to the best fully-synthetic Oils.   These are not right for old engines like in the VW T4s and the oil can leak past the piston rings. Old fashioned non-synthetic of the right grade is the way to go.
I don't think these engines tend to be oil burners generally - I don't know if I ever topped up my 1.9TD (but it was under 80,000 miles and yours is a fair bit more).

I am not sure if cleaning the injectors would make much difference to your issue?   the fuel side and the oil side are (at least they should be!)  separate and while cleaning the injectors, etc will help with smoother running and fuel economy  (I use BG244 - https://amzn.to/3mMwnUN), I doubt if it will address the oil-burning issue.


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## Wisewoman (Aug 31, 2021)

wildebus said:


> Something that people make the occasional mistake with ... they "treat" their engine to the best fully-synthetic Oils.   These are not right for old engines like in the VW T4s and the oil can leak past the piston rings. Old fashioned non-synthetic of the right grade is the way to go.
> I don't think these engines tend to be oil burners generally - I don't know if I ever topped up my 1.9TD (but it was under 80,000 miles and yours is a fair bit more).
> 
> I am not sure if cleaning the injectors would make much difference to your issue?   the fuel side and the oil side are (at least they should be!)  separate and while cleaning the injectors, etc will help with smoother running and fuel economy  (I use BG244 - https://amzn.to/3mMwnUN), I doubt if it will address the oil-burning issue.


Thanks wildebus - I use semi-synthetic 10 40 oil - would you advise using non-synthetic then?

I have put a white sheet under her just now and will see if that reveals anything. The cost of keep topping the oil up is negligible really - but I want to know what's happening! For the first 2-3 years of owning her she hardly used any oil - that's definitely changed over the last couple of years.


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## mark61 (Aug 31, 2021)

Sorry if you've mentioned it, but how much oil are you having to put in, say after 500/1000/2000 miles?

Any van that I've had that has started to burn oil, has shown signs of that on the back doors.


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## Wisewoman (Aug 31, 2021)

mark61 said:


> Sorry if you've mentioned it, but how much oil are you having to put in, say after 500/1000/2000 miles?
> 
> Any van that I've had that has started to burn oil, has shown signs of that on the back doors.


I would say i am putting about a cup of oil in every 500 miles? So not huge amounts but she used to barely use any oil so something has changed...

With regards to back doors -- do they look visibly oily? Mine just look normal dirtiness after a big road trip? No difference between back barn door on exhaust side than other side.

Here's a video to show you the black smoke - nothing at idling but following a blip on the accelerator this is what happens.

Daenerys black smoke

Its unclear to me if this is related to my oil disappearance or not.


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## caledonia (Aug 31, 2021)

I would change the oil and filter and live with topping it up and stick some injector cleaner in it for a few tanks of fuel. Get your mechanic to give it a good run and a bit of a thrashing. I don’t think the oil use is too excessive and black smoke on the pull is a fuel issue nothing to do with using oil.


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## mark61 (Aug 31, 2021)

So, say about 250ML a cup, thats 1 litre of oil for 2000 miles? That doesn't sound hugely excessive to me, lets see what other say. 

Yes, they could look visibly oily, or may feel oily too the touch.


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## trevskoda (Aug 31, 2021)

Wisewoman said:


> I would say i am putting about a cup of oil in every 500 miles? So not huge amounts but she used to barely use any oil so something has changed...
> 
> With regards to back doors -- do they look visibly oily? Mine just look normal dirtiness after a big road trip? No difference between back barn door on exhaust side than other side.
> 
> ...


Thats not oil but is defo injector problem, oil burns blue and thats black.
Use an injector cleaner or half a bottle of cooking oil in the fuel each fill up for a few tank fulls, may have to change fuel filter after that as it cleans all the pipes etc.


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## Wisewoman (Aug 31, 2021)

Wisewoman said:


> I would say i am putting about a cup of oil in every 500 miles? So not huge amounts but she used to barely use any oil so something has changed...





mark61 said:


> So, say about 250ML a cup, thats 1 litre of oil for 2000 miles? That doesn't sound hugely excessive to me, lets see what other say.
> 
> Yes, they could look visibly oily, or may feel oily too the touch.


Hi Mark,

Thanks for that thought - so is it normal for these engines as they get older to start using this amount of oil? 

I may be overthinking things, I just know she used to barely use any oil at all and I'm a terrible whittler when it comes to my precious van  I haven't noticed any difference in her performance though and I'm certainly not going down the road with a black trail behind me and there's no oilyness on my back doors. I still cannot see anything out my rear view window, even going up very steep hills. She could well have been doing this for well over a year and it was only because I had a friend follow me I knew about the black smoke.

Melissa


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## Wisewoman (Aug 31, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Thats not oil but is defo injector problem, oil burns blue and thats black.
> Use an injector cleaner or half a bottle of cooking oil in the fuel each fill up for a few tank fulls, may have to change fuel filter after that as it cleans all the pipes etc.


Thanks Trev - so its beginning to sound like I am looking at two likely unrelated issues. The joys of owning these vehicles! lol I Her mechanic is coming to look at her hopefully this week.


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## mark61 (Aug 31, 2021)

Wisewoman said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thanks for that thought - so is it normal for these engines as they get older to start using this amount of oil?
> 
> ...


Yes, I'd say it's completely normal for older/higher mileage vehicles to consume more oil (within reason), due to normal wear. All engines will consume some oil though.


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## harrow (Aug 31, 2021)

Wisewoman said:


> I would say i am putting about a cup of oil in every 500 miles? So not huge amounts but she used to barely use any oil so something has changed...
> 
> With regards to back doors -- do they look visibly oily? Mine just look normal dirtiness after a big road trip? No difference between back barn door on exhaust side than other side.
> 
> ...


A main consideration is thats not going to pass an mot looking like that.


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## Wisewoman (Aug 31, 2021)

harrow said:


> A main consideration is thats not going to pass an mot looking like that.


Oh dear  - hopefully just injectors then and not something as expensive as new engine and I need to stop whittling about the increased oil consumption I am seeing! The MOT thing is a good point actually - she got through her MOT last year in December which suggests this black smoke may have started this year?


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## caledonia (Aug 31, 2021)

As I said get the oil and filter done. Different oils my be consumed at different rates and some engines if the oil is old will use more. Use the correct good quality oil and don’t worry about it just keep an eye on the level. 
Use a good fuel system cleaner (Forte, Wynns or similar) for a couple of fill ups and see how she goes. Most of all just get out there and enjoy yourself and don’t worry about it.


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## mistericeman (Aug 31, 2021)

With regards to the black smoke.... What does your air filter look like? 

IF its restricted/blocked it can lead to black smoke like that (overfuelling due to lack of air) 
That can also lead to extra oil consumption as unburned diesel washes oil from the bores....


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## Red Dwarf (Aug 31, 2021)

As has been mentioned, check the engine breather. I think there may be a valve on the engine breather that could also be problematic, though easy to clean or replace.
You mentioned the cylinder head has been off, do you know if the valve stem oil seals were replaced? If worn these small seals will make the engine smoky and push up oil consumption.
As Trev mentioned, run some injector cleaner through the system. 
I’ve had these engines to well over 200k miles without any real problems.


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## ricc (Aug 31, 2021)

i had a similar black smoke underload issue with my nissan xtrail.  garage had difficulty getting the emissions through mot last year,  evacuate workshop whilst they do the smoke test level. we went through the cheap easy remedies last year , and fed it redex in the diesel.  and drive with a light foot ,  no real difference except this year it failed on corrosion aswell so we didnt pursue the emissions any further. just scrapped it.

the oil use wouldnt be a concern to me id be getting the garage to look at the air filter or mouse nest in the air inlet piping, and thinking its probably going to be big money on injectors or fuel pump.

regarding oil use, time to worry is when you check and top up to full mark on dipstick every morning and its significantly below the low mark when you check tomorrow. or you can see white smoke in mirrors.


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## Drover (Sep 1, 2021)

Black smoke is fuel side of things not burnt oil.
I do not know this engine so I guess no egr valve, if it has one check this side first.then engine breathing side of things. If all ok you are down to injection pump and injectors
As for oil loss it does not sound a lot, what oil do the manufacturers recommend   (use what they say) burnt oil is white .
If theres is no sludge in the radiator it's not losing it internally.
Valve stem seals would be the first place to look though you would get a faint blue smoke,  but sometimes not even noticeable.
Next is piston rings then main bearings.you would get a knocking noise with pistons or crank bearing ,especially on start up when cold.

Most  (if not all ) of this has already been said


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## Wisewoman (Sep 1, 2021)

Thanks to everyone for all the comments -I am going to shove some forte diesel treatment through it to see if it sorts out black smoke / cleans things up. If still no better, her mechanic will come to look over her. 

No strange noises to report from the engine!

Melissa


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## Lonewolf (Sep 2, 2021)

Hi there, black or grey or blue or white smoke can steer  you in the right direction, your saying you see black smoke.
Oil when burning gives off blue smoke.
Diesel when burning gives off black smoke.
If the injectors where the problem, you would see black smoke but your oil level would be going up not down due to the diesel getting washed passed the pistons as well as creating black smoke out the exhaust.
The turbo; if the oil seal is leaking it would burn you engine oil, making your oil level go down and produce smoke out your exhaust but (very lucky to get away with burning oil this way for such a long time with out the engine running directly on sump oil and screaming up to max RPM with no way of stopping it except blocking the air intake to starve the engine of air.
So when a turbo is stuck on the side of an engine it’s best to get the van checked out to see what’s really going on. If the problem is not obvious to the mechanic, he’ll whip out the injectors and have a look see in the cylinders at a charge of 2 hours labour and if he gets the job he will for go the charge.


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## SquirrellCook (Sep 2, 2021)

It's funny reading this. 

What ever you do DON'T take this advise.

Go to at least two mechanics, ask the see evidence of professional training.  Collage or apprenticeship. Before asking for an opinion.
If they say the same thing, they might be right.

I trained as an Engine remanufacturer before going on to design cylinder head port shapes and chambers for a racing engine manufacturer.
I also had a race engine remanufacturing company.
If you do have an engine problem an experienced remanufacturer will know what is wrong just by it's age.  Nearly all engines fail in the same way by make and model.

Most engine damage is done by bad mechanics.   

I expect most people mean well, much of the information passed around is from misguided social media (experts)


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## Wisewoman (Sep 2, 2021)

Lonewolf said:


> Hi there, black or grey or blue or white smoke can steer  you in the right direction, your saying you see black smoke.
> Oil when burning gives off blue smoke.
> Diesel when burning gives off black smoke.
> If the injectors where the problem, you would see black smoke but your oil level would be going up not down due to the diesel getting washed passed the pistons as well as creating black smoke out the exhaust.
> ...


Thanks for your thoughts here - My engine doesn't have anything fancy like a turbo. Hopefully my Forte diesel treatment will arrive today and I can shove it through her to see what happens! If it sorts it great - if not - then will move on with the thinking.


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## Wisewoman (Sep 2, 2021)

SquirrellCook said:


> It's funny reading this.
> 
> What ever you do DON'T take this advise.
> 
> ...


Hi SquirrellCook - sounds like you know your engines - if she were yours what would you do given the video I posted in this thread showing the black smoke that comes with a hard blip on the accelerator?


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## SquirrellCook (Sep 2, 2021)

If you injector cleaner clears the black smoke and then it returns once it's worked it's way though the system.  e.g. Run the fuel tank to nearly empty, then fill the tank.  This could be a sign of an injector problem. But first I would see if the pumps over fueling can be cut down.  I can't remember if it can be done on your pump, but I expect so.  It's one of those things you need to be experienced with.  Too much and you won't be able to pull away easily, or turn it the wrong way and you'll have more smoke on acceleration.  Not many mechanics will know about this.
A company that specialises in diesel fuel injection should be able to do this for you if they have a member of staff old enough to remember how.
I expect they will want to fit a new set of nozzles on the injectors and recalibrate them.  It's not a bad idea, but not always necessary.
If with the injector cleaner in it sound sweeter, it might be worth having the injectors serviced.  It used to be about £50.00 per injector, but I bet it's gone up.

You say you don't have excessive mechanical noise, hard to determine on an old diesel.  But it does creep up on you as the engines age.

Assuming this makes minor improvements, then it be a case of digging deeper.
I'm not sure if your engine is 4, 5 or six cylinder, but most behave the same.
If the head was repaired properly or you did in fact have a new head the valve stem seals are excellent if VW compatible.  Allthough it has bronze valve guides and there is no side thrust imparted by the cam follower they do wear out very fast.  After eight years they shouldn't be bad enough to cause your problem.
I did think about making my own valve guides for them, but at the time I never had the machinery to make it cost effective.
If the head does get stripped to check the expense will come if your tappets are shimmed.  Again an old skill youngers wouldn't have seen.
Easy for someone with experience and a box of shims. 

They were good engines and easily did over 100k miles before showing problems, but as I mentioned before I expect it needs a rebore and new pistons.
The five and six cylinder engines used to have quite short oil change intervals, and not sticking to this doesn't help the engine.

Oils!  be careful with modern engine oils.  Some are very good at sticking to the cylinder bores.  In a worn engine they can increase oil consumption and smoke.  Most oil companies do make an oil for older engines, but watch out the blighters have a habit of changing oil names.  So what used to work might not the next time you buy what you thought was the same product.

They were a very easy and cheap engine to work on, best of luck.


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## Wisewoman (Sep 2, 2021)

SquirrellCook said:


> If you injector cleaner clears the black smoke and then it returns once it's worked it's way though the system.  e.g. Run the fuel tank to nearly empty, then fill the tank.  This could be a sign of an injector problem. But first I would see if the pumps over fueling can be cut down.  I can't remember if it can be done on your pump, but I expect so.  It's one of those things you need to be experienced with.  Too much and you won't be able to pull away easily, or turn it the wrong way and you'll have more smoke on acceleration.  Not many mechanics will know about this.
> A company that specialises in diesel fuel injection should be able to do this for you if they have a member of staff old enough to remember how.
> I expect they will want to fit a new set of nozzles on the injectors and recalibrate them.  It's not a bad idea, but not always necessary.
> If with the injector cleaner in it sound sweeter, it might be worth having the injectors serviced.  It used to be about £50.00 per injector, but I bet it's gone up.
> ...


Thanks very much - this gives me some thoughts to throw at her mechanic if the Forte doesnt work. I have also found a  couple of engine rebuild places in my area that I shall bear in mind, and will enquire with if no joy after the diesel treatment. By hook or by crook I will try my hardest to keep this beauty on the road, at the minute, it all seems a bit of a maze to navigate towards getting the correct diagnosis.  It also really good to hear these engines aren't overly-complicated to work on which will hopefully keep costs and hassle down! Its a 1.9D 1X (or X1) VW engine - 4 cylinder I believe. With the joy she has given me, she's worth every penny, but I must remain sensible at the same time -which is hard when you are emotionally attached to these beasts


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## mikejay (Sep 2, 2021)

mistericeman said:


> With regards to the black smoke.... What does your air filter look like?
> 
> IF its restricted/blocked it can lead to black smoke like that (overfuelling due to lack of air)
> That can also lead to extra oil consumption as unburned diesel washes oil from the bores....


My 1st thoughts also when you said black smoke under load check the air filter make sure a mouse has not made a nest in there


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## trevskoda (Sep 2, 2021)

First thing to do is look at the air filter, if its dirty and blocked it will restrict the air and cause black smoke.


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## Drover (Sep 2, 2021)

Just seen the video, didn't know there was one, 
As squirrellcook says that is injectors or fuel pump if the breathing side is clear. 
If it stays black when the throttle is held open you are going to need a fuel specialist to take a look...

If it was a cummins engine you would melt the lead seal out of the pump and screw the adjuster in a little...... I know the last bit is irrelevant  
 I've never worked on diesel VW's only the flat 'uns


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## Wisewoman (Sep 5, 2021)

So the forte treatment has sorted  Daenerys out ! Now only a very faint whiff of dark smoke comes out with hard blip on accelerator, in neutral. I am very happy about this. 

Now, I just have to keep an eye on the oil level and see if that improves or not - if not then I guess engine is getting a bit tired, but I don’t think I will consider getting the engine overhauled unless it gets much worse!

I’ve also ordered new air filter as the old one was not  in the  best shape 

Thanks everyone. !
Melissa


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## caledonia (Sep 5, 2021)

Wisewoman said:


> So the forte treatment has sorted  Daenerys out ! Now only a very faint whiff of dark smoke comes out with hard blip on accelerator, in neutral. I am very happy about this.
> 
> Now, I just have to keep an eye on the oil level and see if that improves or not - if not then I guess engine is getting a bit tired, but I don’t think I will consider getting the engine overhauled unless it gets much worse!
> 
> ...


Glad you’ve got a bit peace of mind  Best thing you can do is not worry about it. Happy travels.


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## Traveller (Sep 5, 2021)

Take beloved Daenerys to an honest local garage and ask for their advice, but from what you've said regrettably it will need a full rebuild. Black smoke and changing down to second gear going up hills where you wouldn't normally. I'm guessing it's petrol so definitely a rebuild at 147ml is overdue


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## trevskoda (Sep 5, 2021)

Wisewoman said:


> So the forte treatment has sorted  Daenerys out ! Now only a very faint whiff of dark smoke comes out with hard blip on accelerator, in neutral. I am very happy about this.
> 
> Now, I just have to keep an eye on the oil level and see if that improves or not - if not then I guess engine is getting a bit tired, but I don’t think I will consider getting the engine overhauled unless it gets much worse!
> 
> ...


Do look at the air filter.


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## Wisewoman (Sep 5, 2021)

Traveller said:


> Take beloved Daenerys to an honest local garage and ask for their advice, but from what you've said regrettably it will need a full rebuild. Black smoke and changing down to second gear going up hills where you wouldn't normally. I'm guessing it's petrol so definitely a rebuild at 147ml is overdue


Hi there traveller - no shes a diesel - shes always done really steep hills in second gear (Ive had her 5 years) - think it was one of the reasons they stopped putting the 1.9D engines in them and turned the short nose style into a long nose style so that could get bigger engines in them. My Daenerys is a short nose and built in the first year they started making T4's. I may be wrong on this, but no doubt some hardcore member of the VW tribe will pull me up if I'm wrong 

I dont think there's any point me taking her to an engine specialist just yet... though I know her time will come. I think I started this thread from a mindset of worst-case scenario  fear thinking and likely overthought it. I've not had a diesel van before  

I'm astounded how much difference this Forte diesel treatment has made to the black smoke!


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## Wisewoman (Sep 5, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Do look at the air filter.


I've looked - it wasn't great - new filter arriving this week


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## MF2002 (Sep 6, 2021)

It could be a number of things. A good mechanic will be able to diagnose.

If it’s a turbo I’d be considering a failed/failing turbo.  Pressurised oil gets fed into the intake and comes out as black smoke.  

Unlikely to be valve stem seals (IMO) they’re more likely to give smoke on startup (oil drips into cylinders when it’s sitting).

Good luck.


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## MF2002 (Sep 6, 2021)

SquirrellCook said:


> It's funny reading this.
> 
> What ever you do DON'T take this advise.
> 
> ...


Most engine damage is done by poor or lack of maintenance.


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## caledonia (Sep 6, 2021)

MF2002 said:


> It could be a number of things. A good mechanic will be able to diagnose.
> 
> If it’s a turbo I’d be considering a failed/failing turbo.  Pressurised oil gets fed into the intake and comes out as black smoke.
> 
> ...


Maybe read all the posts. The engine is non turbo.


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## caledonia (Sep 6, 2021)

MF2002 said:


> Most engine damage is done by poor or lack of maintenance.


Kinda stating the obvious and is of no help to the OP.


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## Minisorella (Sep 6, 2021)

Hi Melissa
I know nothing whatsoever about engines but this issue rings a huge bell with a member's very recent experience.  There was black/dark smoke coming from the exhaust in great gusts, especially pulling uphill, and the oil levels were slowly dropping. We were all away on the Orkney trip, so he tried to eliminate all sorts of possibilities prior to getting home to his mechanic. Eventually, another sharp-eyed member noticed that there was a blackened area on the inside of the bonnet. Turned out a hose had split very close to its anchor point, so not easy to spot. He wrapped and taped the split to get him home and I was able to confirm that the massive puffs of dark smoke I'd been following previously were no more! I have no idea if this is relevant but thought I'd mention it anyway. Good luck with the lovely Daenerys


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## trevskoda (Sep 6, 2021)

The 1.9 is the same engine fitted to early skoda octavia, great engine and easy for parts or complete engines, turbo would give more power but a bit of work to install, good you are getting a filter, keep her lit.


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## MF2002 (Sep 6, 2021)

caledonia said:


> Kinda stating the obvious and is of no help to the OP.


Take a leaf out of your own book and read the post I replied to.  Then go troll someone else.


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## caledonia (Sep 6, 2021)

MF2002 said:


> Take a leaf out of your own book and read the post I replied to.  Then go troll someone else.


Bad mechanics = poor or lack of maintenance does it not? As I said no help to the posters problem. I’m not a trolling just trying to help a member with a problem. Sorry if I’ve upset you.


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## Markd (Sep 10, 2021)

Glad to hear that the injector cleaner did the trick.
It was an old trick to use a full bottle or even two in a very low fuel tank to reduce smoking before an MoT - The cetane booster effect was what did it.
The oil consumption you report would have been considered 'normal' (or at least not excessive) by manufacturers on new engines at the time your van was new.

Hopefully the new air filter will improve breathing as well and move the air fuel ratio in the right direction.
The Orkney story was probably stopping a leak on the post turbo air pipe - again this would have increased flow into engine to match quantity of fuel being g injected.


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## trevskoda (Sep 10, 2021)

Markd said:


> Glad to hear that the injector cleaner did the trick.
> It was an old trick to use a full bottle or even two in a very low fuel tank to reduce smoking before an MoT - The cetane booster effect was what did it.
> The oil consumption you report would have been considered 'normal' (or at least not excessive) by manufacturers on new engines at the time your van was new.
> 
> ...


You change the air filter in a derv engine because if the air is cut down the pistons both suck oil up past the rings, blue smoke & the mixture is too strong causing black smoke, this can also cause a runaway engine. 
I started off with elastic bands but now im just wound up.


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## eddyt (Sep 10, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> You change the air filter in a derv engine because if the air is cut down the pistons both suck oil up past the rings, blue smoke & the mixture is too strong causing black smoke, this can also cause a runaway engine.
> I started off with elastic bands but now im just wound up.
> 
> View attachment 101753


hi. i use a mineral  engine oil in mine it SHPD 15/40 its for heavy duty use in trucks but it has good cleaning properties. so it could clean your oil control rings out. they could be clogged in the scraper ring with carbon. 
  keep using the injector cleaner regulary. you can put it neat directly in the fuel filter before the MOT.


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## Markd (Sep 11, 2021)

I still have a few unused 15-40 'gallons' of oil that need a home.
I live in Stroud - Gloucestershire if anyone local wants to collect.


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