# Fiat Ducato intermittent starting problem



## Roger Haworth (Jul 6, 2021)

My Fiat Ducato based campervan has had intermittent starting problems for years now. The starter motor turns the engine over fine but it sometimes just won't start however many times you try! There seems to be no pattern to these problems. Sometimes it won't start from cold, other times it won't start from hot. My local garage has done the electrical fault finding analysis on numerous occasions and say they don't know what's wrong with it.

It is a 2008 Ducato with the 100 Multijet 2198 cc engine. It's the one with the chain driven camshaft.

*Has anyone experienced this problem on a van of this type and if so did they manage to cure the problem and what type of repair was needed?*


----------



## harrow (Jul 6, 2021)

Is it an engine immobilizer problem, do you have an extra light on the dashboard or a light missing when it won't start ?


----------



## Roger Haworth (Jul 6, 2021)

harrow said:


> Is it an engine immobilizer problem, do you have an extra light on the dashboard or a light missing when it won't start ?


Nothing of that kind. All lights are as normal when the van won't start. However the idea that it might be something to do with the engine immobiliser is interesting.


----------



## Deleted member 56601 (Jul 6, 2021)

Had similar on my Master, was the nr valve in the fuel filter housing.


----------



## The laird (Jul 6, 2021)

Check it's not a faulty key ,have you a spare key to try long term test ,these keys are tuned to the immobilisers and can often go faulty ,has anyone tried to retune the keys  if it's this type ,you will have a credit type card with radio code and a code to open up the ecu to tune keys in  this has to ( be done by a professional ) albeit other can do it auto sparks etc


----------



## trevskoda (Jul 6, 2021)

I would go for the fuel cut of as adina states, change the garage as they don't know what there doing


----------



## Roger Haworth (Jul 6, 2021)

Edina said:


> Had similar on my Master, was the nr valve in the fuel filter housing.


Hi Edina, What does nr stand for?


----------



## Deleted member 56601 (Jul 6, 2021)

Roger Haworth said:


> Hi Edina, What does nr stand for?


Non return, sorry.


----------



## Roger Haworth (Jul 6, 2021)

The laird said:


> Check it's not a faulty key ,have you a spare key to try long term test ,these keys are tuned to the immobilisers and can often go faulty ,has anyone tried to retune the keys  if it's this type ,you will have a credit type card with radio code and a code to open up the ecu to tune keys in  this has to ( be done by a professional ) albeit other can do it auto sparks etc


I've got the blue card with the codes on it. Both my keys have had problems starting. Do you think it would be worth getting them reprogrammed or does the fact that both keys don't work from time to time indicate that the problem lies elsewhere?


----------



## harrow (Jul 6, 2021)

Roger Haworth said:


> I've got the blue card with the codes on it. Both my keys have had problems starting. Do you think it would be worth getting them reprogrammed or does the fact that both keys don't work from time to time indicate that the problem lies elsewhere?


There is a pickup coil around the ignition switch to read the chip in the key, it might not be an immobilizer fault but it is possible that its the cause.


----------



## The laird (Jul 6, 2021)

I would get them checked  even when there are no faults you should rotate the use of programmed keys as they can go out of sync and not be recognised by the ecu (electronic control unit) giving intermittently bad starting or non starting even though engine spinning over but not catching to start


----------



## Snapster (Jul 6, 2021)

I thought the immobiliser would disable the starter motor, if that is the case, and as the engine is turning over, I would be looking at something like the starter motor itself or the fuel cutoff circuit. 
You need to find a garage with a proper time served mechanic.


----------



## The laird (Jul 6, 2021)

If the immobiliser is faulty or the key is not recognised the engine will spin over at normal speed but will just not catch it sounds like there's nothing wrong with the starter motor imho


----------



## caledonia (Jul 6, 2021)

Fuel cut off problem. Advise a trip to the main dealer for a diagnosis.


----------



## Martin P (Jul 6, 2021)

Just had a problem with our Master. Sometimes would crank over but refuse to fire. Turned out to be a split in the fuel primer pump. Seems to be a common problem. Diagnosed when I gave it a couple of pumps and ended up with diesel over my hand


----------



## Phantom (Jul 6, 2021)

My first thought was fuel cut off solenoid too.


----------



## trevskoda (Jul 6, 2021)

Simple test is a squirt of easy start when it wont fire, if it does kick then fuel problem for sure.


----------



## The laird (Jul 7, 2021)

EASY START JEEZ YOU AULD GITTT TREV


----------



## kensowerby (Jul 7, 2021)

The laird said:


> EASY START JEEZ YOU AULD GITTT TREV


Thats not old,, old was the days you carried  a bottle  of aether for hand starting Dorman engines in draglines on a frosty morning 
OK I've got me sticks I'm off for my pension


----------



## The laird (Jul 7, 2021)

Remember at auchterarder we used to light fires under the derv tank to thaw out the fuel and other locations but not was funny seeing all the glows from afar 
them were the days NOT!


----------



## kensowerby (Jul 9, 2021)

The laird said:


> Remember at auchterarder we used to light fires under the derv tank to thaw out the fuel and other locations but not was funny seeing all the glows from afar
> them were the days NOT!


A lot of wagons ended up as scrap when the fires got out of control, we had an Albion with 4 cylinder Gardner knocker and a wood cab, looked rather sad when the fire got out of control, the boss was convinced it was done on purpose


----------



## Lonewolf (Jul 10, 2021)

If you want to check your immobiliser circuit…. Just cover the fob with tinfoil and try starting the engine…. As the engine spins you will see a flashing light and the engine will not start… your two key fobs are working properly as is your lmmobiliser system… so get out of that rabbit hole and never return…a Diesel engine has to reach a certain RPM before it fires (750?) if it is not… the engine will keep spinning until it does reach the sweet spot provide you keep it on the key…. Us elder lemons have a habit of pumping the accelerator pedal when trying to start a stubborn engine… a big no no on the modern engine because the are controlled by ECUs keep your foot away from the pedal ( tie your foot to the seat pillar)…. Even when on a normal start…the ecu will get pissed of with you changing the parameters all of the time and turn on the money light (engine management light on the dash). I haven’t enough details of the hard start to send you down a rabbit in any one direction. Burn Camino.


----------



## Snapster (Jul 10, 2021)

I had occasional starting problems with my 1998 Ducato. It turned out to be a bad earth to the chassis. A common fault on many Ducatos and Boxers. 
You should disconnect it, clean off all the rust, put a blob of synthetic grease on the nice bare metal and bolt it up again.


----------



## Glynno (Jul 11, 2021)

Roger Haworth said:


> My Fiat Ducato based campervan has had intermittent starting problems for years now. The starter motor turns the engine over fine but it sometimes just won't start however many times you try! There seems to be no pattern to these problems. Sometimes it won't start from cold, other times it won't start from hot. My local garage has done the electrical fault finding analysis on numerous occasions and say they don't know what's wrong with it.
> 
> It is a 2008 Ducato with the 100 Multijet 2198 cc engine. It's the one with the chain driven camshaft.
> 
> *Has anyone experienced this problem on a van of this type and if so did they manage to cure the problem and what type of repair was needed?*


Could be diesel jets.


----------



## Lonewolf (Jul 11, 2021)

Hi. Diesel jets problems always stick around and when the scale flips bad you’ll get a diesel knock (the knock is as loud as a big end knock and sometimes confused with one)… no wrong rabbit hole.
Buen Camino.


----------



## Roger Haworth (Jul 21, 2021)

Roger Haworth said:


> Nothing of that kind. All lights are as normal when the van won't start. However the idea that it might be something to do with the engine immobiliser is interesting.


What I wrote here was true to the best of my knowledge when I wrote it. However on closer inspection of the lights on the dashboard I have realised that the normal sequence when you turn on the ignition is for the immobiliser light (a little orange padlock symbol) to flash once and then go out. If this does not happen and the light stays on, then when you turn the engine over the van won't start. To rectify the problem all you have to do is turn the ignition off and back on once or twice and it reverts to the normal sequence of the immobiliser light  flashing once and then going out. When the correct  sequence has occurred the van always starts first time. I am absolutely kicking myself that I have not spotted this before. I'm also concerned that my local garage didn't spot it when I asked them to look into the intermittent non starting on at least two occasions. I guess there must be a glitch in the immobiliser software which is causing this and no doubt a Fiat Professional dealer could re-programme the system to eliminate the glitch however I don't think I'll bother with having that done. Many thanks to all of you who contributed to this thread.


----------



## The laird (Jul 21, 2021)

Roger Haworth said:


> What I wrote here was true to the best of my knowledge when I wrote it. However on closer inspection of the lights on the dashboard I have realised that the normal sequence when you turn on the ignition is for the immobiliser light (a little orange padlock symbol) to flash once and then go out. If this does not happen and the light stays on, then when you turn the engine over the van won't start. To rectify the problem all you have to do is turn the ignition off and back on once or twice and it reverts to the normal sequence of the immobiliser light  flashing once and then going out. When the correct  sequence has occurred the van always starts first time. I am absolutely kicking myself that I have not spotted this before. I'm also concerned that my local garage didn't spot it when I asked them to look into the intermittent non starting on at least two occasions. I guess there must be a glitch in the immobiliser software which is causing this and no doubt a Fiat Professional dealer could re-programme the system to eliminate the glitch however I don't think I'll bother with having that done. Many thanks to all of you who contributed to this thread.


Still think you should get the keys reprogrammed imho and rotate the use of keys so the bsi  /ecu recognise the keys


----------



## caledonia (Jul 21, 2021)

The laird said:


> Still think you should get the keys reprogrammed imho and rotate the use of keys so the basic /ecu recognise the keys


Wot he said  Otherwise it will let you down when you least expect it.


----------



## Lonewolf (Jul 21, 2021)

Hi Roger, glad to your sorted. 90% of problems blamed on the ECU are wrong.
It is worth keeping the spare chipped key handy for the next time the duke does it.
Put the spare key in and if it starts, then it’s 
Worth having a look at the chip (in correct position in the fob) in the working key.
If it doesn’t start (light says on) then it’s worth looking at the antenna ring (the ring hasn’t moved out of position) around the ignition barrel. Also keep in the back of your mind about signal interference 
( automatic gate systems, masts, fuel pumps at petrol station, etc. Just have a look round with in about 100 feet or so to see is there anything electrical to interfere with the immobiliser and never have another chipped key on the same key ring.


----------



## Roger Haworth (Jul 27, 2021)

The laird said:


> Still think you should get the keys reprogrammed imho and rotate the use of keys so the bsi  /ecu recognise the keys


I'm taking your advice! I've got the van booked in to the main Fiat dealer in Exeter to have the immobiliser checked out and reprogrammed as necessary.


----------



## Drover (Jul 27, 2021)

I had the same problem with my Fiat. In the end it would not start at all. Fiat commercial dealers in Gloucester found the problem.....
A short in the aftermarket Sigma alarm wiring ... I never ever used the alarm, not even to see if or how it worked but it caused my problems.


----------



## Roger Haworth (Aug 19, 2021)

Roger Haworth said:


> I'm taking your advice! I've got the van booked in to the main Fiat dealer in Exeter to have the immobiliser checked out and reprogrammed as necessary.


Just to bring everyone who has contributed to or read this thread up to date.

I took the van into Vospers the main Fiat dealer in Exeter yesterday to have the immobiliser problem checked out and hopefully rectified.

They said that they suspected that the control module is faulty.
Apparently replacing the control module would cost around £900 and in view of the fact that they only suspect that this is the problem I am not planning to get this done!

They charged me £114 for the benefit of knowing what they suspected was the problem.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed their ideas.


----------



## The laird (Aug 19, 2021)

Hope you can get it sorted by possibly a decent whizz auto spark ,they are about and worth their salt


----------



## Snapster (Aug 19, 2021)

Roger Haworth said:


> Just to bring everyone who has contributed to or read this thread up to date.
> 
> I took the van into Vospers the main Fiat dealer in Exeter yesterday to have the immobiliser problem checked out and hopefully rectified.
> 
> ...


Sounds like it could have been the start of a nice little money making programme for the garage. Glad you decided not to carry on. 
You need to find a proper time served mechanic…..


----------



## trevskoda (Aug 19, 2021)

I still think looking at the fuel pump cut off is the way to start, all a process of elimination, easy stuff first.


----------



## witzend (Aug 19, 2021)

Roger Haworth said:


> I took the van into Vospers the main Fiat dealer in Exeter yesterday to have the immobiliser problem checked out and hopefully rectified.
> They said that they suspected that the control module is faulty.
> Apparently replacing the control module would cost around £900


Vospers qouted me £647+vat to supply the BCM a Fiat Dealer in Italy would post me one for €400


----------



## trevskoda (Aug 19, 2021)

Look for one from a right off van.


----------



## rugbyken (Aug 20, 2021)

when wully had a sudden problem of this nature at holbeach it turned out to be a 10p 12v fuse only allowing 3v to pass ? point being he had an experienced RAC patrolman come out who quickly identified the immobiliser circuit as the problem but because he was getting a circuit missed it , then a experienced  breakdown mechanic who spent about an hour fault finding and had to give up & put it on the low loader the next day a specialist auto electrician took 15 mins to find the fault & start the engine ,


----------



## Cherise (Apr 29, 2022)

A bit late to the party, but we've had exactly the same issue as Roger. The AA guy who came out immediately identified it as an issue with the immobiliser and pointed out that the padlock light on the dashboard didn't go out when the engine wasn't starting. So obvious once it was pointed out, but we'd both completely missed it. 

Anyway, I was just wondering if you'd got the problem fixed, Roger? Or did you decide to live with it in the end? Is it still causing issues?


----------



## Niol (Oct 11, 2022)

I had the same intermittent starting problem with my brand new Ducato. I was trying to find the best spot to park at home. There was a lot of engine on/off operation. Then it would not start. It cranked over fine. I pondered the problem. It seemed to be related to the frequent start/stop operations. I carefully checked every warning light. There was a new amber light in the mix. It looked like a campervan with a padlock. I thought, this thing thinks I am trying to steal it! So I  pulled out the key, reinserted it and instant start.


----------

