# Using calor gas bottle stored on it's side. Is it a problem?



## NorfolkanGood (May 25, 2010)

Using calor gas bottle stored on it's side. Is it a problem?

I've discovered I can fit my calor gas bottle into the gas locker of my van side on, and it's much easier to reach the on/off tap from the trapdoor in the seat above. 

This means I don't have to get out of the van and walk round to the back doors to switch off the gas at night. 

Is it ok to use and store gas bottles on their sides? Just wondering in case there is some technical or legal reason?

Any feedback appreciated.

Allyssa


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## Davesport (May 25, 2010)

I'm not in any way qualified as a gas engineer.

Do not use your gas bottle on its side

The gas bottle you have if full of LPG, the important part in this case being the "L" which stands for liquified. If you use the bottle whilst on its side you may introduce liquid gas into your system with potentially lethal results.

Gas bottles can be seen mounted on their side on LPG driven forklifts for instance. These are designed for liquid withdrawal of the gas & are not the same as your gas bottle.

Please post a follow up & reassure me that you're not in the local burns unit having skin grafts 

D.


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## lebesset (May 25, 2010)

quite so , recipe for disaster !

why would you switch off the gas at night anyway ? if the system isn't safe it shouldn't ever be switched on!!!


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## vwalan (May 25, 2010)

i wonder why you switch off .only time i turn mine off is if changing a bottle could stay on for 6 months. 
but best not keep on its side please dont do it. 
cheers alan.


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## Deleted member 775 (May 25, 2010)

as other have said dont use bottle on its side you will go bang!!!!!! also no harm in leaving the gas turned on all the time you will need to if you are using the fridge ours is never turned off


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## coolasluck (May 25, 2010)

Guys i do hope you switch your gas off when driving the van,you should all know better,and as for you Mandrake,im ashamed of you!!


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## vwalan (May 25, 2010)

drove all the way to maroc and back with the gas fridge working many times.only time switched off was to change bottle.


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## NorfolkanGood (May 25, 2010)

Thanx for the speedy replies. 
.... I had a feeling it was maybe not a good idea, but glad to have it confirmed! Ok, it's back in the upright position.

I've always turned off the gas at night (and before driving). I just thought that was the safest thing to do.


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## Canalsman (May 25, 2010)

It is not safe to drive with the gas turned on.

*In the event of an accident, and the possible fracture of gas lines - BANG!*

Don't do it - EVER


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## vwalan (May 25, 2010)

could be difficult turning it off if you use lpg for fuel. cause if it bothers you get a excessive use shut off valve. lets stop giving old wives tales .you could be gassed in your sleep next.


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## Canalsman (May 25, 2010)

Petrol stations do not permit any naked flames on the forecourt.

Petrol vapour and gas pilot lights don't mix!

And of course your insurance company would probably not pay out if you are proven negligent ...

Don't chance it.


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## AndyC (May 25, 2010)

vwalan said:


> could be difficult turning it off if you use lpg for fuel. cause if it bothers you get a excessive use shut off valve. lets stop giving old wives tales .you could be gassed in your sleep next.


The Truma Secumotion system allows the gas to be left on, since some of their heating systems are designed to be used safely when travelling. 
See: SecuMotion

AndyC


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## vwalan (May 25, 2010)

it only takes a spark to light gas vapour .petrol cars give lots of sparks and very high tension ones . dynamo,s alternators starter motors all give lovelly sparks .best stay home as more people die from cars etc.wrap your self up and never leave home.


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## Fatherjack (May 25, 2010)

Only time mine is off is when I'm refilling a bottle. Mind you, the other bottle is still switched on  

  Why else would the auto fridge have a 15 minute delay on gas if you needed to turn it off when travelling?


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## vwalan (May 25, 2010)

if travelling with the gas on is a problem for you .google bes gas fittings .on their lpg valves section you can get a muli-purpose safety fitting for 11.28quid .cuts out if a pipe is leaking aCTS AS A ROUGH CONTENTS GAUGE 
part no.  12673. have a look could give peace of mind .


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## vindiboy (May 26, 2010)

If you go into a filling station for petrol with your fridge burning gas you could cause an explosion due to petrol vapours entering your fridge vents and BANG, you would incur a huge bill to rebuild the garage and for any other damage caused and your insurance company would NOT foot the bill. This happened at our local TESCO store a few years ago, BE WARNED.


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## Deleted member 775 (May 26, 2010)

coolasluck said:


> Guys i do hope you switch your gas off when driving the van,you should all know better,and as for you Mandrake,im ashamed of you!!



try to turn the gas off but the missis wont keep quiet, she is always gassing on . fink isa dead man if she reads this  oops arghh choke


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## Deleted member 775 (May 26, 2010)

on a serious note i suppose you all have a valid point about the fridge ignighting fumes when refueling ,and as my fuel filler is at the same side as the fridge only something i realy use in summer .its something i have never thought about. guess what my gas is going off when driving in future


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## BedfordMJ (May 26, 2010)

vindiboy said:


> If you go into a filling station for petrol with your fridge burning gas you could cause an explosion due to petrol vapours entering your fridge vents and BANG, you would incur a huge bill to rebuild the garage and for any other damage caused and your insurance company would NOT foot the bill. This happened at our local TESCO store a few years ago, BE WARNED.



out of interest do you have a link to your Tesco petrol station blowing up? Urban myths can soon spread.
cheers

Simon


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## Deleted member 775 (May 26, 2010)

BedfordMJ said:


> out of interest do you have a link to your Tesco petrol station blowing up? Urban myths can soon spread.
> cheers
> 
> Simon


as you say there are a lot of urban myths ,and realisticly thinking .to get an explosion with anything. first of all the combustable material must be contained in something ie a sealed canister then an ignition source must be introduced into that sealed container other wise you cannot have an explosion  the explosion is caused by the rapidly expanding gasses in the sealed canister cetara.cetera   and well i think we all know the rest   the real danger would more than likely come from a blow back of petrol when refilling and the flame  ignighting the fuel spillage there is a chance .  no such probs with deisel though..


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## BedfordMJ (May 26, 2010)

Many a time in the far east i've smoked on petrol station forecourts and it's quite normal to do so. I'd be interested to hear of the exploding tesco.
I am a bit obsessive with my gas though it's always off when the truck is moving.


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## maingate (May 26, 2010)

It was the same when I was in South Africa.

An Afrikaaner would pull in for petrol while smoking a fag and order the black petrol pump attendant to fill the tank while he flicked his ash out of the window.

I never heard of an incident of fire or explosion though. The temperatures were quite high and the petrol would vapourise much easier.


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## Davesport (May 26, 2010)

Just to fan the flames & up the ante a little  Mate of mine used to do a nice little trick on the garage forecourt whereby he would fill the tank on his bike to the point of overflowing. Then he'd put his fag out by sticking it in the fuel before putting the filler cap on & going inside to pay for the fuel 

We were'nt mates for long 

D.


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## Deleted member 775 (May 26, 2010)

that one is def iffy but when i worked in a garage in leeds we used to smoke when working on the cars fuel system never had any probs petrol wont burn its only the fumes that will ,and even then it is surprising how hard it is to cause a fire when you look at the internal combustion engine if you do not have the proper compression and a nice fat jucey spark you wont ignite the mixture  as we all know


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## AndyC (May 26, 2010)

YouTube - Want to light a Cigarette at a Gas Station?

AndyC


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## vindiboy (May 26, 2010)

BedfordMJ said:


> out of interest do you have a link to your Tesco petrol station blowing up? Urban myths can soon spread.
> cheers
> 
> Simon


 No link only personal experience , Tesco petrol station Burlseldon Southampton.


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## vwalan (May 26, 2010)

so there you have it .dont fill up in a tesco garage .they catch fire .thanks Malc ,i,ll try to remember that. hee heee cheers alan.


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## Davesport (May 27, 2010)

What a shed. Why did they bother putting it out


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## Fatherjack (May 27, 2010)

vindiboy said:


> If you go into a filling station for petrol with your fridge burning gas you could cause an explosion due to petrol vapours entering your fridge vents and BANG, you would incur a huge bill to rebuild the garage and for any other damage caused and your insurance company would NOT foot the bill. This happened at our local TESCO store a few years ago, BE WARNED.



  The argument was Running with your gas on.

  I do, my van was designed to do so. As stated, the auto selector on my fridge will not switch the gas on until 15 mins. after the engine is switched off. No pilot light, nothing burning, perfectly legal and up to the notoriously high German standards.

  Don't the Brits just love being P.C. about such things?


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## vwalan (May 27, 2010)

think of all the sparks a petrol engine need s .every time the distributer sparks it could set fire to petrol fumes .also if you have a bleed off for filling with gas, i have a calor tank here that as a bleed off for filling .you open it slightly ,gas comes out ,when its nearly full liquid comes out .turn off supply ,shut valve. its been around since the 70,s its safe .thats what calor use on the tank in my garden same system. if fumes were that bad we would have to manually push cars on and off forecourts . accidents do happen but normally they arent accidents but stupidity. i dont sqirt gas or petrol neaer my fridge vents . neither would you,i hope. actually i use a compressor 240volt fridge now no vents needed . cheers alan


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## Samson (May 28, 2010)

This is an interesting subject. 
I've never had a gas fridge but will be installing one in my present self build project. Was always under the impression though that when driving, the fridge should be running on 12v.
I have a question too:
What is it normal to do when one is on a long ferry, say to Amsterdam? is the fridge left on gas?


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## vwalan (May 28, 2010)

some fridges only have gas . as for ferries never been asked or told not to have it on. .certainly if you are on a 24hr to spain crossing the last thing you want is fridge on 12v flats your battery very quick. 
the biggest trouble with that type of fridge is when the weather is good and gets over 32c they start to not work. by 36c its dead as they cant get rid of the heat. thats why i changed to a compressor fridge .i use a 240 through an inverter . or you can get 12v .because they come on get to temp then switch off they use alot less power ,and keep going even in hot climates. cheers alan.


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## Kontiki (May 28, 2010)

On the ferries & eurotunnel you have to turn the gas off. In eurotunnels case they check to make sure it's off & you board last if you are carrying LPG. You should use the van on 12 volts while driving on many new motorhomes they have an auto setting that switches to 12 volts while travelling.

That said I run my fridge on gas all the time unless we have a hook up, I DO have the trauma securmotion fitted, according to the manuals I have it is ok to run the heating on gas while driving .

I wonder how good the auto switch over system is on the fridges  it says that there should be a delay of 10 minutes before the fridge switches back to gas. I've been stuck for over 10 minutes waiting at a pump either to get in to fill or pay. Isn't it more dangerous that the fridge is trying to light or the fridge is already alight  

Also in reality if an electric spark was likely to cause an explosion at a petrol station then what happens when we start the motor  have you ever seen how much a starter motor sparks


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## Deleted member 207 (May 29, 2010)

In the good old days of top loading fuel tankers (open hatch with a hose/spear dangling down inside (puts teeth back in)) you'd be able to see the static electricity sparking over the surface of the fuel, its was an eerie sight to be perched up there with all the petrol vapours coming out of the hatch. The plus was that inside the tanker the vapour/air mixture was too rich for the sparks to cause an explosion/fire. BUT - plenty of fires over the years when static sparks jumped around at the hatches - quite often caused by the hatches becoming electrically insulated from the rest of the tanker. We used to have to stop loading if storm cloud was in the area as the risk of a static spark became too great with the hatches all wide open and vapour gushing out. 

Diesel was worse than petrol and kerosene was worse than diesel for producing static - we had special procedures for switch loading (loading diesel over petrol) - load 100 litres in each compartment then drive round the yard 10 ten times!! 

Nowadays with bottom loading, vapour recovery and all controlled by computers the drivers miss out on the excitement of watching the sparks fly!! 

Fuel companies are very anal when it comes to safety on their properties - main reason why the no smoking, no flames, no mobile phones etc etc. They have access to worldwide data and just one incident may trigger a worldwide ban - the philosophy being a mix of risk management for their customers and "they shall not sue" for their bottom lines. 

There are good safety reasons for not having the gas on whilst the vehicle is in motion, an even better one for not having the gas pilots alight. The risk of any fuel leaking in accident is always going to be there - having a naked flame may just push the risks a bit too far more my liking.


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## Deleted member 2636 (May 29, 2010)

vwalan said:


> the biggest trouble with that type of fridge is when the weather is good and gets over 32c they start to not work. by 36c its dead as they cant get rid of the heat.



II was not aware of this. I have always suspected that these 3 way fridges were useless and this has merely confirmed my worst suspicions.
I've always used 12v compressor fridges until getting a 3 way Electrolux that changes automatically to what ever power source is available. ie if you are driving, it automatically goes to 12vDC, if you are on a hook-up it goes to 240vAC and if you are enjoying your camping, sorry wilding it  it goes onto gas.
I hate the thing: It is one of the worst items I have ever bought. If the van is not absolutely level, the B thing refuses to work and I waste loads of time rolling pencils around, putting builders levels across the cab etc

Apologies for going off topic


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## Samson (May 29, 2010)

baloothebear said:


> II was not aware of this. I have always suspected that these 3 way fridges were useless and this has merely confirmed my worst suspicions.
> I've always used 12v compressor fridges until getting a 3 way Electrolux that changes automatically to what ever power source is available. ie if you are driving, it automatically goes to 12vDC, if you are on a hook-up it goes to 240vAC and if you are enjoying your camping, sorry wilding it  it goes onto gas.
> I hate the thing: It is one of the worst items I have ever bought. If the van is not absolutely level, the B thing refuses to work and I waste loads of time rolling pencils around, putting builders levels across the cab etc
> 
> Apologies for going off topic



But surely, if one's desire is to wild camp nearly all of the time and so hardly ever to be on hook up, then it would only be a matter of time before the 12v compressor fridge totally drained the leisure batteries, even if you used several?


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## AndyC (May 29, 2010)

Samson said:


> But surely, if one's desire is to wild camp nearly all of the time and so hardly ever to be on hook up, then it would only be a matter of time before the 12v compressor fridge totally drained the leisure batteries, even if you used several?


The batteries would be recharged when driving, and/or by solar panels. The recharging capacity, and the power consumption of the fridge, need to be factored in when designing the system.

We have a Waeco MDC-110 compressor fridge, I reckon it uses around 40Ah per day which our solar panels can keep up with in the summer. There are certainly smaller, more efficient, 12V fridges around but if you want to reduce electricity consumption to a minimum you would have to use a gas/3-way fridge.

AndyC


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## vwalan (May 29, 2010)

yes you can drain your batteries with a compressor fridge. we have 3 x80wt panels on the roof 600amps battery .in dec /jan .in spain n portugal we ran the fridge in the day switched it off in the night. it still kept frozen in the d,freeze bit. later as it got more sunny we left it on all 24hr a day. it is a 110wt 240 house fridge run through a 2 kw ring inverter. 
at the moment i run an extention lead into the house and keep the house fridge running for free . if it stays sunny we use other things from the extention .but as you open the fridge door its easy to see the light if its not on plug into mains. 
gas and 3 way fridges are a really pain as we go south into hot climatesin summer or as i do venture into africa. with the set up i use if we go maroc or further down batteries are full by 12mid day. vacum cleaners food mixers twin tub washing machines are used frequently all run by the sun. 
read your instructions on gas fridges as it gets hot forget them its only a cupboard for food.
cheapest way is a proper evaporation cool box .they were a chalk construction you put water i the top as it evaporates the box became cold .the hotter it is more water needed the cooler it becomes .never reezes but keep milk and cools beer. 
cheers alan.


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## tobeornot2be (Feb 2, 2011)

*tobeornot2be*

i once pulled a woman from an overturned camper ,the gas was not turned off ,the pipe was severed and the liquid gas was spewing everwhere .easy done .


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## Brandyman (Feb 2, 2011)

Canalsman said:


> It is not safe to drive with the gas turned on.
> 
> *In the event of an accident, and the possible fracture of gas lines - BANG!*
> 
> Don't do it - EVER


 
 I fully agree with Canalsman your insurance may well will be void just ask them .,
    IT IS VERY DANGEROUS IN THE EVENT OF ACCIDENT FIRE YES   FIRE  
       YOU HAVE WARNED


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