# Change the name. This term is outdated: WildCamping



## Deleted member 74229 (Jul 24, 2020)

*Message on CAMpRA (FB page) today calls to stop using the term ‘Wild Camping’ - I agree:*

“WE ALL NEED TO ACT NOW! ✍

We are in danger of being overtaken by the latest trend of “dirty camping” that is grabbing the media attention.

Wild Camping is being dragged into this by the media and motorhomes and campervans are being associated with tents and groups of campers and day trippers.

SO WHAT CAN WE DO.

EVERY MEMBER of this group needs to act NOW tomorrow is too late.

We need to get the message out there that we do not condone this behaviour the simplest and biggest first step is for everyone of us to contact EVERY motorhome and campervan owner we know by whatever means are available to stop using the phrase “wild camping”  we must get the message out that we are “PARKING not CAMPING”
It may sound a simple thing but old habits die hard, people are reluctant to change but if we do not want our freedom to even park in our outfits to be lost for ever we MUST CHANGE NOW, TODAY not tomorrow.
I am not saying to stop parking in quite remote areas or to start using campsites I am asking that just stop referring to it “wild camping” or indeed camping at all.

So please let’s use the power of this group to activate this first step NOW ”


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## Admin (Jul 24, 2020)

*Aires and Wild Camping are not the same things.


First, let us look at what this community is focused on.*

Wild Camping, Boondocking, Freedom Camping, Off-Grid Camping.

These are all labels given to the activity of sleeping, cooking, eating, washing, showering, relaxing, parking, etc, in a motor caravan, which can all be in the daytime or at night.

The definition of parking is 'the act of leaving a car somewhere for a period of time". The critical word here is 'leaving' if you are using the vehicle, it is not parked in the legal definition of the word.

Within British English, it is commonly accepted that the term "Camping" is the act of using a tent, caravan or motor caravan for leisure purposes. "Are you off camping in the motorhome this weekend?" Works better than "Are you off parking in the motorhome this weekend?".

*So camping is correct.*

The term 'Wild', when used with camping in a motor caravan, has always been accepted as meaning 'without any services" it does not mean wilderness. The term 'off-grid' has come to us from the USA; we tend to use the word network rather than grid, we don't say "water grid" or "gas grid".


*Now UK Aires*

When I am planning an adventure, I tend to avoid the town centre urban car parks, which is what most UK Aires will be.

People can call their activity whatever they want; they can also politely suggest that others change to their label for the activity.

While we are discussing labels, I would suggest that having a campaign in the UK to convince people that they should have 'Real Aires' (translation 'Real Areas') is not a great name. Very few people who have not toured in Europe will have any idea what an 'Aire' is and convincing local councils would mean first educating them and the local population as to what it means. I would suggest that the 'Campaign for Motorhome Overnight Camping Areas' maybe a better title.

*So to sum up*

The label "Wild Camping" is not outdated and is the correct label for the activities that this forum is focused on.
Comparing wild camping and Aires is the same as comparing wild camping and certified locations (CL, CS).
You would not say you were wild camping at a certified location nor would you do so at an Aire.

Phil


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## SquirrellCook (Jul 24, 2020)

I get very angry about this name changing.  I've always wanted to be Gay, but I'm a miserable person with no homosexual intent.


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## Marjonkay (Jul 24, 2020)

I couldn’t agree more - I have just read a letter in Friday 24th July’s Daily Record entitled “Campervans must pay” and I would urge everyone to respond - here is my response - I hope you all agree it got the point over...
Hi,

In response to Peter from Helensburgh’s letter “Campervans must pay” in Fridays’ Daily Record...
I wonder where he gets his train of thought from - for him to suggest people in Campervans stay in places where they don’t pay anything and expect services to be available - Seems to me he is singling them out for whatever reason only known to him. The very vast majority of Campervan owners use them sensibly with respect to the environment - They don’t actually need services as are self contained with their own power supply AND toilet facilities - they will also ensure to lift any trace they have been there including lifting other peoples waste - AND will try to support the local economy by purchasing from local shops and garages - also using chemical toilet disposable services for a charge at campsites if they are not staying there - unlike many car owners and tent campers who leave litter and toilet waste everywhere  - maybe Peter should get off his high horse and get his facts right!
MR, Glasgow
Attached is the Daily Record letter.
Kind regards to all, Martin


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## Wooie1958 (Jul 24, 2020)

I`m with our beloved leader Phil on this and more than happy with our name


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## runnach (Jul 24, 2020)

Nice how posts shift on tent campers and cars ,,,,exactly the sort of response those pointing fingers want. There is irresponsible behaviour in all parts of the camping community

Ultimately tent motorhome or tarp for the evening people don’t understand our recreational lifestyles they can’t fathom it, our activity is fringelike by its nature and people are always suspicious, history is littered with examples


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## CarlandHels (Jul 24, 2020)

Geeky Philip said:


> *Aires and Wild Camping are not the same things.
> 
> 
> First, let us look at what this community is focused on.*
> ...


Hi Phil. After reading what you have written here, I have to agree with you. But the title you suggested "Campaign for Motorhome Overnight Camping Areas" has one issue. I think the issue is the word *camping*, as the general public see camping as a week or two's holiday in one area. 
Maybe if we could use a title of *Motorhome/Campervan Stop Over Area. * So the council and public might understand that we aren't setting up a campsite but are wanting to stop over near a destination to spend our money there before we move on. That way the councillors that have a financial interest in campsites won't feel that they are losing out as it's clear that it's only an area that is legal for us to stop over a max of say 2 nights. Maybe replenish our vans and dump the loo, but also spend money in the locality on fuel, shopping and gifts etc. So maybe then we wouldn't be seen as Freeloaders but part of the much needed side of tourism..


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## TissyD (Jul 24, 2020)

I'm with Phil on this one. As previously said there are irresponsible people in all walks of life. We live at the seaside and after the visitors have gone home the whole arera needs a good clean up. While the lockdown was on and MOST sensible people stayed away, the whole town was cleaner.If you look i the dictionary there are many definitions for the word 'wild'. Are we going to join the emptyheads who spend fortunes on changing signs that read "facilities" or "departments" to "faculties".


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## witzend (Jul 24, 2020)

CShel said:


> EVERY MEMBER of this group needs to act NOW tomorrow is too late.


Some time ago a name change for this site was talked about but wasn't favoured by the majority of members (don't think it would have been before You joined) The out come of it was The sister site  https://motorhomer.com/ so members could choose for them selves most seem to use both so whats in a name


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## Tookey (Jul 24, 2020)

After reading the above I asked 10 people in the Health Center what the expression 'wild camping' meant to them. Everyone of them said 'in a tent but not on a campsite' and when I asked if you classed a MH in a rural car park as 'wild camping' all said no. I havent adjusted well to the expression either, during my 30's my work and social circle included canoeists, hikers, climbers, bushcrafters etc and in no way would a car park be considered wild camping. I don't disagree with any of Phils points, as far as the dictionary goes he is spot on but in reality the majority of people do not associate the practice with MH's and campervans.

With regards to 'grid'.....the internet, especially You Tube actually determines what the populous call an activity and whether right or wrongly the most understood expression for what we do is 'off grid'


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## barryd (Jul 24, 2020)

Wild Parking?  Sounds crackers to me although I see plenty of examples from the Cocoon brigade in their Nissan Micras in Barney and Richmond.

I also agree with Phil. I like the name.  It sums up parking on a mountain top, by a river, lake or sea to me in a remote place on our own.  Parking in a town or urban area is an overnight stopover to me not wild camping so if you are going to campaign for those type of stopovers then a campaign for motorhome overnight stopovers sounds about right. Its not wild camping, its parking for the night. To me.

The only places I "wild" are those that meet my first description.  I have no desire to park in a town centre overnight but would happily support a campaign for those that do.  I dont see my kind of wilding changing or disappearing because of what we call it.


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## Tookey (Jul 24, 2020)

Only last week a lady joined the forum and was confused why she couldnt find the 'tent' bit of the forum. It was her mistake but it does goes to show that due to the name she made an assumption


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

This is not about defining the words “wild camping“, it’s about creating a divide between us and those who use tents, then leave their mess behind them.
What Phill states is accurate, but I really don’t think the term wild camping does us any favours.

Look at the letter printed in the Daily Record, Scotland’s most popular newspaper.
Most of us know this is utter nonsense, but unfortunately this is how we are being perceived. And letters Like this only serve to persuade the ill informed that he has a point. Thousands of cars can turn up at a resort, use the facilities provided, then go home, and no one will accuse them of free loading, or failing to help local communities. I am willing to bet that per capita we do far more for local communities than car drivers.

I honestly think we should stop using the term wild camping, and use another term.
The sooner we start to try to change our image, based on misinformation, and ignorance the better. And using another term will be a start towards this. It will help isolate us from the poor behaviour of others.


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## caledonia (Jul 24, 2020)

Why does this CAMpRA brigade think they are doing us all a favour? I like Scotland just the way it is and would hate to have to use an aire type overnight spot. Seeing pictures of Aires they are tarmac concrete places with vans packed in together and in built up areas. Nothing wrong with the situation in Scotland and as we loose one spot we gain another. 
How dare they ask the Geekmyster to change the name of the best motorhome related  forum there is


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## mistericeman (Jul 24, 2020)

caledonia said:


> Why does this CAMpRA brigade think they are doing us all a favour? I like Scotland just the way it is and would hate to have to use an aire type overnight spot. Seeing pictures of Aires they are tarmac concrete places with vans packed in together and in built up areas. Nothing wrong with the situation in Scotland and as we loose one spot we gain another.
> How dare they ask the Geekmyster to change the name of the best motorhome related  forum there is



And I personally think this is one of the issues with those desperate for European type aires.... 

Once places have those set up I think it's likely that the next thing will be comments like 'Why is that motorhome/campervan parked anywhere BUT in the aire that's been provided. 

Personally I don't want to be close to other folks hence why I studiously avoid people as much as possible and choose my spots carefully.... 
And my campsites even more carefully (usually CL/CS or others like shell island out of season when I can be sure of finding somewhere away from people.


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> And I personally think this is one of the issues with those desperate for European type aires....
> 
> Once places have those set up I think it's likely that the next thing will be comments like 'Why is that motorhome/campervan parked anywhere BUT in the aire that's been provided.
> 
> ...



Yes I agree I am not in favour of aires either.
And like you I prefer rural locations to urban.
But many others prefer towns and villages.
To my way of thinking what we need to is try to change attitudes towards us, and to try to convince local authorities to stop putting up barriers and signage.
Most of these carparks are empty all night, it’s stupidity and ignorance that prevents us from using them.
All that’s required is we are treated the same as other road users.
After all that’s exactly what we are.
The fact that we wish to use carparks at night should not be the issue it has become. Much of what we have been witnessing recently stems from opinions based on the above letter, and the letter published in April’s CCC magazine, which I and others replied to.


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## wildebus (Jul 24, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> This is not about defining the words “wild camping“, it’s about creating a divide between us and those who use tents, then leave their mess behind them.
> What Phill states is accurate, but I really don’t think the term wild camping does us any favours.
> 
> Look at the letter printed in the Daily Record, Scotland’s most popular newspaper.
> ...


I like the term "Dry Camping" that I think is popular in some countries.  It tends to imply self-contained to me (although I guess to some might sound like an Camping division of AA?).  "Freedom Camping" as used in NZ is good as well.
I personally use the term "off-grid" instead of "wild camping" as that is pretty well understood even if it is American in origin


But I really dislike this constant reference to "Aires"!  I didn't know we were in France?  Why is there this desire to have "Aires" in the UK?  why not "Stellplatz" for example?  Yes, have the features a Stellplatz (or an 'Aire') provides, but have a proper name for it, not some imported term!


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## Tookey (Jul 24, 2020)

Oops, forgot the most important point.....its Phils site and although I wouldnt chose the name I still 100% support that is his choice


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## landoboguy (Jul 24, 2020)

I know they mean well, but they are just like any other brigade, trying to force their opinion on everyone else, and create cliques/lobbys, blah blah that not all will agree with.

Ill be wild camping in my motorhome as and when I want , where I want and how I want as long as Im within the local rules. Roaming round doing my own thing without the "gang"
If anything, then I may say Im wild motorhoming     but I dont see whats wild about running round in something that cost me more then double the price of my first house


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## caledonia (Jul 24, 2020)

I think groups like CAMpRA come and go and lots have tried the campaign thing. Personally I think it’s education some motorhome users need as the places where we’ve been banned from are normally because a carpark gets turned into an unofficial campsite by motorhomes cramming in. East Lothian is a perfect example.
This forum does a pretty good job on the education of how to wild camp responsibly


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## Val54 (Jul 24, 2020)

Can I just ask how many if us have actually used the phrase "wild camping" to a member of the public who is not engaged in our pastime, personally I can't remember one instance. Frankly its a lot of hot aire


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

Possibly what’s on offer at Lochore meets the criteria of Aire.
Its run by Fife council, and was opened before the 15 July because it’s not a campsite.

I honestly don’t think we need aires, just a change of attitude towards us, and use of the carparks that are currently off limits to us. Obviously not all car parks are suitable, but many if not most are.

And many of the problems with overuse of some carparks have been created by limiting what car parks are available. We don’t need aires, just more provision of car parking spaces that are already there.


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## runnach (Jul 24, 2020)

caledonia said:


> I think groups like CAMpRA come and go and lots have tried the campaign thing. Personally I think it’s education some motorhome users need as the places where we’ve been banned from are normally because a carpark gets turned into an unofficial campsite by motorhomes cramming in. East Lothian is a perfect example.
> This forum does a pretty good job on the education of how to wild camp responsibly


I agree, frankly people involved with CAMpRA that I wouldn’t want to be associated with and have their own agendas, it will fall apart when they want to see the colour of money for their fighting fund,

I can see it going the same way has John Thompson’s effort, I have a lot of time for John ultimately finance crippled his efforts


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## Deleted member 56601 (Jul 24, 2020)

I dislike the fact that a few people can form a group and then assume they have a God given right to talk/act as if they are representative of everyone else. 
Personally, I don't want or need council controlled stopping places. The reason the French system works so well is that they haven't got the same obsession for rules and regulations we in the UK have.


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## Makzine (Jul 24, 2020)

I'm with Phil if it ain't broke don't fix it and wild camping is what we do.


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## Tookey (Jul 24, 2020)

Makzine said:


> I'm with Phil if it ain't broke don't fix it and wild camping is what we do.


But it is brocken, words are communication and when the words are misunderstood by the majority it becomes redundent.....

Being 'gay' now means homosexual because thats what the vast majority of the populous use as a description. That does not make gay meaning 'happy' wrong but rather redundent


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## Val54 (Jul 24, 2020)

channa said:


> I agree, frankly people involved with CAMpRA that I wouldn’t want to be associated with and have their own agendas, it will fall apart when they want to see the colour of money for their fighting fund,
> 
> I can see it going the same way has John Thompson’s effort, I have a lot of time for John ultimately finance crippled his efforts



I applaud anyone who tries to set the record straight when a group is unfairly tarred because of the actions of others. But I wont be joining CAMpRA, mainly because I think we need to be very careful what we wish for. In my view there is a very real danger that if CAMpRA's campaign gains momentum and is successful in providing "stopovers" or whatever we want to call them; it will be a very short step for Authorities to argue that provision has been made and new blanket bans on overnighting anywhere else are introduced. Just ask a "traveller" what that feels like.


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## davep10000 (Jul 24, 2020)

Personally I hate the term wild camping, but respect the view of the majority on this site, and like the site and all it stands for.
I come from a background of backpacking in Scotland where you carry all your needs for a couple of nights or so on your back.
(I still do this occasionally), although probably more likely to use a bothy now I am getting soft and old!
You are then camping (in a tent) in the wild, away from any one else.
The term motorhome stopover is more appropriate.


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## Val54 (Jul 24, 2020)

Tookey said:


> Only last week a lady joined the forum and was confused why she couldnt find the 'tent' bit of the forum. It was her mistake but it does goes to show that due to the name she made an assumption


But she clearly didn't read the strap line under the banner ........ "the wild fun and friendly motorhome community"


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

davep10000 said:


> Personally I hate the term wild camping, but respect the view of the majority on this site, and like the site and all it stands for.
> I come from a background of backpacking in Scotland where you carry all your needs for a couple of nights or so on your back.
> (I still do this occasionally), although probably more likely to use a bothy now I am getting soft and old!
> You are then camping (in a tent) in the wild, away from any one else.
> The term motorhome stopover is more appropriate.



Yes Dave I totally agree.
If Wild Camping is the preferred name then so be it.
Spent many a night in a bothy to many years ago.
Woke up one morning to two staggs rutting right outside our bothy.
Had some good times in the bothys, met some good people.


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## Tookey (Jul 24, 2020)

Val54 said:


> But she clearly didn't read the strap line under the banner ........ "the wild fun and friendly motorhome community"


Absolutely agree, it was her mistake but it was an example of misunderstanding the expression. As mentioned earlier, if in passing I had said 'I am going Wild Camping this weekend' to any of those 10 people in the Health Center all of them would have thought I was going to be in a tent but not on a campsite.....exactly what they lady was planning to do.


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## wildebus (Jul 24, 2020)

Tookey said:


> After reading the above I asked 10 people in the Health Center what the expression 'wild camping' meant to them. Everyone of them said 'in a tent but not on a campsite' and when I asked if you classed a MH in a rural car park as 'wild camping' all said no. I havent adjusted well to the expression either, during my 30's my work and social circle included canoeists, hikers, climbers, bushcrafters etc and in no way would a car park be considered wild camping. I don't disagree with any of Phils points, as far as the dictionary goes he is spot on but in reality the majority of people do not associate the practice with MH's and campervans.
> 
> With regards to 'grid'.....the internet, especially You Tube actually determines what the populous call an activity and *whether right or wrongly the most understood expression for what we do is 'off grid'*


I agree with the above, especially about the last bit I emboldened.  When I was working out what to put on a banner, it was clear (to me anyway) that the term "off-grid" would be most recognised one within the UK.


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## Val54 (Jul 24, 2020)

There is a lot of navel gazing going on here, as a webmaster you really wouldn't want to change the name of a well established website. Maybe we should all recognise that if anyone is looking for ammunition to discredit us, then the relevant threads on this website completely vindicate our opposition to those who are spoiling our pastime. The name of the forum is a non-issue.


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

Val54 said:


> There is a lot of navel gazing going on here, as a webmaster you really wouldn't want to change the name of a well established website. Maybe we should all recognise that if anyone is looking for ammunition to discredit us, then the relevant threads on this website completely vindicate our opposition to those who are spoiling our pastime. The name of the forum is a non-issue.





Val54 said:


> There is a lot of navel gazing going on here, as a webmaster you really wouldn't want to change the name of a well established website. Maybe we should all recognise that if anyone is looking for ammunition to discredit us, then the relevant threads on this website completely vindicate our opposition to those who are spoiling our pastime. The name of the forum is a non-issue.


Val I have two wild camping stickers on my van.
I have nothing against keeping the name of the forum the same.
But I don't think its a non issue, there is an issue, and we are having a debate about it.
Ultimately its up to Phil what he calls the forum.
But there's nothing wrong with discussing the issue.


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## Tookey (Jul 24, 2020)

Val54 said:


> There is a lot of navel gazing going on here, as a webmaster you really wouldn't want to change the name of a well established website. Maybe we should all recognise that if anyone is looking for ammunition to discredit us, then the relevant threads on this website completely vindicate our opposition to those who are spoiling our pastime. The name of the forum is a non-issue.


But as a webmaster you dont want to miss web traffic and the phrase people will put into google will be "off grid camping forum" if they are looking for this type of site. Someone looking to chat to people who put a rucksack on and sleep in a tent/bivvy bag away from campsites will search "wildcamping forum". Thats what the two expressions now mean


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## mistericeman (Jul 24, 2020)

Personally speaking, 

I joined this forum because I considered it fitted the ethos of what I mostly do (camping well away from other folks as much as possible)... 

I'm really not concerned that it's name doesn't fully describe what I do... 
There are plenty of folks on here that 'wild camping' doesn't fully describe what they do either.... 

However I consider this place more of a 'state of mind' rather than an exhaustive description of what folks do... 

And frankly I've got bigger fish to fry than concern myself with what the site owner wants to call it... 

Maybe some people just have too much time on their hands and constantly look for things to change... 

Not happy with the name? 

Set your own forum up and call it what you want.


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## Val54 (Jul 24, 2020)

As I said in post 21, I'm not aware that the phrase "wild camping"  is used to any great extent by forum members when talking  to anyone other than fellow motorhome owners. When we are going on a trip, we are "off in the van" wherever we are going. The OP implies that it is in regular derogatory use ( which it is in the press) but that Phil should perhaps change the name of the community. Its one thing making it clear that responsible motorhomers don't cause a problem, but it's unreasonable to sow the seeds of name changing when it is someone's livelihood. 
PS Its Dave and we have 2 stickers too


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## Val54 (Jul 24, 2020)

Tookey said:


> But as a webmaster you dont want to miss web traffic and the phrase people will put into google will be "off grid camping forum" if they are looking for this type of site. Someone looking to chat to people who put a rucksack on and sleep in a tent/bivvy bag away from campsites will search "wildcamping forum". Thats what the two expressions now mean


I'm sure Phil will be monitoring what search phrases are being used and would want to change it himself if he was losing lots of traffic.


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

Val54 said:


> As I said in post 21, I'm not aware that the phrase "wild camping"  is used to any great extent by forum members when talking  to anyone other than fellow motorhome owners. When we are going on a trip, we are "off in the van" wherever we are going. The OP implies that it is in regular derogatory use ( which it is in the press) but that Phil should perhaps change the name of the community. Its one thing making it clear that responsible motorhomers don't cause a problem, but it's unreasonable to sow the seeds of name changing when it is someone's livelihood.
> PS Its Dave and we have 2 stickers too



Val it’s the word camping that’s become a dirty word for the media.
Unfortunately we are included within the same group that are a disgrace.
When talking to my wife and friends I use the term wild camping, and it’s become habitual now.


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> Personally speaking,
> 
> I joined this forum because I considered it fitted the ethos of what I mostly do (camping well away from other folks as much as possible)...
> 
> ...



I think the fact that we are having a civilised debate says a lot for the forum.
And I think it’s important for the ‘state of mind ‘ of the forum that we are able to do this. It’s not about having lots of time, or having bigger fish to fry, or being concerned about anything. As for everyone with a different opinion forming their own forums, I would not wish to be part of a forum who’s condition of membership was to always agree with what’s posted. Having varying opinions on a forum is healthy and conducive to an excellent forum, which I think this one is.


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## wildebus (Jul 24, 2020)

Val54 said:


> There is a lot of navel gazing going on here, as a webmaster you really wouldn't want to change the name of a well established website. Maybe we should all recognise that if anyone is looking for ammunition to discredit us, then the relevant threads on this website completely vindicate our opposition to those who are spoiling our pastime. The name of the forum is a non-issue.


I would say that this forum is so long established that changing the name would - and should - not happen, despite the name maybe not having the meaning that everyone would agree on.

I run a on-line Club - or Forum - setup for drivers of Toyota RAV4s - weirdly called the RAV4DriversClub.  But now more members than not no longer have RAV4s, but I wouldn't change the name as that is both known and also established for many years now.
The way search engines work, the name of a website means very little nowadays anyway to people finding a site that covers their interest.


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## Tookey (Jul 24, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> Personally speaking,
> 
> I joined this forum because I considered it fitted the ethos of what I mostly do (camping well away from other folks as much as possible)...
> 
> ...


Im on my phone so its a bit tricky to navigate back through, but I don't think anyone has actually said that Phil should change the name. I get the impression that if polled 'Phil calls it what he wants' would win hands down...that would be my choice. The discussion is interesting though


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## 2cv (Jul 24, 2020)

Tookey said:


> Im on my phone so its a bit tricky to navigate back through, but* I don't think anyone has actually said that Phil should change the name.* I get the impression that if polled 'Phil calls it what he wants' would win hands down...that would be my choice. The discussion is interesting though



I think that the thread title suggests that someone thinks the name should be changed.


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## mark61 (Jul 24, 2020)

Tookey said:


> But as a webmaster you dont want to miss web traffic and the phrase people will put into google will be "off grid camping forum" if they are looking for this type of site. Someone looking to chat to people who put a rucksack on and sleep in a tent/bivvy bag away from campsites will search "wildcamping forum". Thats what the two expressions now mean



Search engines pick up far more than a name of a forum. For all I know "off grid camping forum" may be one of the tags, so the name doesn't matter.

Beyond that, I don't know anyone in the UK who uses "off grid". We'll have the forum full of US RV'ers wanting to goondock, or whatever they call it.


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## Tookey (Jul 24, 2020)

2cv said:


> I think that the thread title suggests that someone thinks the name should be changed.


Hah, yes, very good point!! Forgot that bit, doh!


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 24, 2020)

I'm here because of the forum title.  
I did have an idea once for a motorhoming with your dog website. 'Dogging for Motorhomers".


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## antiquesam (Jul 24, 2020)

Before I start I have to declare an interest on this subject. They threw me off their Facebook group because I said that if they want aires, in the French sense they should lobby Councils but not interfere with organisations like NT, Forestry Commission and the Wildlife Trust as they will not be helpful in providing an urban overnight space but may well start sticking up signs in all their country car parks that we use now. I quite like the idea of parking in a town once in a while so that a meal and drink can be taken without me making it and washing up afterwards but these people seem be trying to stir every organisation in the country and I think it could curtail my motorhoming pleasure. Barge 1914 may be able to explain their intentions as he seemed to know all about my comments and suggested I was causing trouble.


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## sparrks (Jul 24, 2020)

It seems odd to me that we justify our overnight stops by saying that we are parking rather than camping i.e. nothing out on the ground but define our past time as wild camping - confused? I am.


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

runnach said:


> Cale, for example the Aires at Hornfleur France, which is on the pheriferal   of this historic medieval town. Having the Aire close by allowed us to do a thorough tour of the town, we had lunch then dinner in the evening, with a short walk back to Aire to sleep, then move off in the morning, this was replicated at various towns we visited. The Aire at Cirque la Popie was certainly enjoyable right alongside the river, cost a few euro per night.
> 
> Without these Aires touring would be much more difficult, making taking in the sights more stressful, as time ticking to source a place to stop for the night.
> 
> Take the Hebrides, remote set of islands not highly populated, even the council and various trusts see the wisdom of catering for us whether in a camper or Motorhome. I bet there are more Aire like facilities on the Hebs than there is on the whole of mainland Scotland. Having Aires gives us options, those who wish to use them can, those who don’t can drive by. I certainly see a requirement for them, some councils are wakening up to this, slowly!!



The way I see this Terry is we all have different tastes and no one group has the monopoly on what wild ——— is. Personally I enjoy all different types from the most remote to urban locations. I see no reason why anyone who prefers urban to rural is any less of a wild ——- than anyone else. Aires would be great and as you say some councils are waking up to the idea. But I see no reason why having Aires would adversely affect rural parking particularly in Scotland. I was down in Galloway last week and I lost count of great places to park up lying empty. As far as Scotland is concerned that won’t change, no matter how many urban Aires there are.  But simply opening up many of the car parks that have been closed to us would go a long way to alleviating the situation. East Lothian have closed many car parks, this only makes matters worse. They should have put controls in place limiting the number of vans allowed during the day. Fife on the other hand apart from St Andrews have shown a much better balanced and informed approach.

This is all about perceptions, and right now we are being perceived poorly by Joe.
And what Joe thinks is important, and letters like the one published in the daily record are doing us a lot of harm.


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## 1 Cup (Jul 24, 2020)

Well I joined this site and you can join to .
But as of 2019 we should call it van with window's. JUST LIKE THE DVLA DO IN 2020.


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## witzend (Jul 24, 2020)

Tookey said:


> Oops, forgot the most important point.....its Phils site and although I wouldnt chose the name I still 100% support that is his choice


At the time when the name change was first mentioned Phil said that it was the members forum and left the choice to us. Starting the motorhomer site as perhaps it would be a more accepted name for booking sites for meets etc. Least ways thats how I remember it


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## Wooie1958 (Jul 24, 2020)

mark61 said:


> Search engines pick up far more than a name of a forum. For all I know "off grid camping forum" may be one of the tags, so the name doesn't matter.
> 
> Beyond that, I don't know anyone in the UK who uses "off grid". We'll have the forum full of US RV'ers wanting to goondock, or whatever they call it.




Pretty close, just one diagonal key out


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## caledonia (Jul 24, 2020)

runnach said:


> Cale, for example the Aires at Hornfleur France, which is on the pheriferal   of this historic medieval town. Having the Aire close by allowed us to do a thorough tour of the town, we had lunch then dinner in the evening, with a short walk back to Aire to sleep, then move off in the morning, this was replicated at various towns we visited. The Aire at Cirque la Popie was certainly enjoyable right alongside the river, cost a few euro per night.
> 
> Without these Aires touring would be much more difficult, making taking in the sights more stressful, as time ticking to source a place to stop for the night.
> 
> Take the Hebrides, remote set of islands not highly populated, even the council and various trusts see the wisdom of catering for us whether in a camper or Motorhome. I bet there are more Aire like facilities on the Hebs than there is on the whole of mainland Scotland. Having Aires gives us options, those who wish to use them can, those who don’t can drive by. I certainly see a requirement for them, some councils are wakening up to this, slowly!!


That’s fair enough if that’s what you want to do but I’m an unsociable bugger and don’t want to spend the night beside half a dozen or so other vans I want a wee quiet spot to myself to wildcamp in my campervan.


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## barge1914 (Jul 24, 2020)

caledonia said:


> Why does this CAMpRA brigade think they are doing us all a favour? I like Scotland just the way it is and would hate to have to use an aire type overnight spot. Seeing pictures of Aires they are tarmac concrete places with vans packed in together and in built up areas. Nothing wrong with the situation in Scotland and as we loose one spot we gain another.
> How dare they ask the Geekmyster to change the name of the best motorhome related  forum there is


Quite a number of us Wildcampers are also part of the CAMpRA Brigade as you choose to call them, and oddly enough perhaps to you the founder of CAMpRA was Scottish as are many of its members. It was started out of a concern at seeing more and more of our wild spots being closed to us as a result of the vast increase in the sort of ‘campers’ and uninitiated newcomers that we all moan about overrunning both wild spots and unprepared small villages, and the unenlightened response of those who tar us all with the same brush and want to see us banned.

There is no desire at all to plaster Scotland with tarmac aires. We want to preserve or wild spots. As anyone who has spent most of their travels in Europe will well know the word Aire is used as a catch all expression that can cover anything from a patch of muddy gravel up to a smart mini-campsite for motorhomes.

The thing most missing in most of our rural areas is a network of motorhome service points sufficient to cope with the demand and dissuade people from dumping their s**t in the bushes and bunging up inadequate septic tanks of public loos which is causing so much ire. (that’s Scotland as it already is). That is CAMpRAs first priority.

Next is somewhere to park that doesn’t involve inconveniencing the locals in their villages, parking in front of their houses, bunging up the residents car parks and blocking their views... and that might even contribute something to their local economy. Would you like to dream up a word for such parking places? It doesn’t matter what you call them the need is still there... ask the poor b.....s in Skye. And until someone, somewhere does something in our favour the tide will continue to turn against us.

Of course we can all sit on our arses and moan about everyone and everything, that’s dead easy and commits us to b....r all personal effort. To do something takes a lot of people, a lot of time, and a lot of effort, for which they need to come together in a common endeavour, just like motorhome groups have been doing in the rest of Europe over the last 20 years while we Brits stuck our heads in the sand.

So you can’t be bothered, you are happy to sneak off to the dwindling stock of remaining quiet corners...that’s your prerogative...but why keep p......g on those who are prepared to put in the hard work?

On a personal note, I stay out of the highlands in the summer...I’ve no desire to add to their problems, but I’ll do what little I can to help resolve them...how about you?


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## barge1914 (Jul 24, 2020)

caledonia said:


> I think groups like CAMpRA come and go and lots have tried the campaign thing. Personally I think it’s education some motorhome users need as the places where we’ve been banned from are normally because a carpark gets turned into an unofficial campsite by motorhomes cramming in. East Lothian is a perfect example.
> This forum does a pretty good job on the education of how to wild camp responsibly


I do agree, but out of some 255000 UK motorhomes and thousands of foreign visitors what proportion doEs our membership represent?


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## barge1914 (Jul 24, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> The way I see this Terry is we all have different tastes and no one group has the monopoly on what wild ——— is. Personally I enjoy all different types from the most remote to urban locations. I see no reason why anyone who prefers urban to rural is any less of a wild ——- than anyone else. Aires would be great and as you say some councils are waking up to the idea. But I see no reason why having Aires would adversely affect rural parking particularly in Scotland. I was down in Galloway last week and I lost count of great places to park up lying empty. As far as Scotland is concerned that won’t change, no matter how many urban Aires there are.  But simply opening up many of the car parks that have been closed to us would go a long way to alleviating the situation. East Lothian have closed many car parks, this only makes matters worse. They should have put controls in place limiting the number of vans allowed during the day. Fife on the other hand apart from St Andrews have shown a much better balanced and informed approach.
> 
> This is all about perceptions, and right now we are being perceived poorly by Joe.
> And what Joe thinks is important, and letters like the one published in the daily record are doing us a lot of harm.


Agree entirely Bill, the dreaded C group is trying to get such closures reversed or at least get spaces made available for motorhomes...is that all bad?


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## antiquesam (Jul 24, 2020)

I wouldn't have thought that Scotland wasn't a high priority. The more populated, but no less pretty areas may need some attention though. What about Dorset, Devon, Norfolk, Sussex and Kent. All with a beautiful coastline and some reliance on the tourist trade but very resistant to motorhomes. Not that I'm bias at all but Scotland is a long way from me.


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## Tezza33 (Jul 24, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Spent many a night in a bothy to many years ago.
> Woke up one morning to two staggs rutting right outside our bothy.


Trust you to turn up uninvited at a stag night


Val54 said:


> PS Its Dave and we have 2 stickers too


That's okay Val

This forum is more civilised now but a few years ago we could have changed the name to Wild Members


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> Agree entirely Bill, the dreaded C group is trying to get such closures reversed or at least get spaces made available for motorhomes...is that all bad?



Of course it’s not, it’s what’s required.
I have watched several places I had visited and others I wished to visit being closed to us. When the no overnight parking signs went up in Kinross at kirkgate I was stunned. Closing such locations only moves us on to other dwindling locations, and that will lead to more issues. Also what was done a Kinross will affect local businesses, so unnecessary.


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## caledonia (Jul 24, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> Quite a number of us Wildcampers are also part of the CAMpRA Brigade as you choose to call them, and oddly enough perhaps to you the founder of CAMpRA was Scottish as are many of its members. It was started out of a concern at seeing more and more of our wild spots being closed to us as a result of the vast increase in the sort of ‘campers’ and uninitiated newcomers that we all moan about overrunning both wild spots and unprepared small villages, and the unenlightened response of those who tar us all with the same brush and want to see us banned.
> 
> There is no desire at all to plaster Scotland with tarmac aires. We want to preserve or wild spots. As anyone who has spent most of their travels in Europe will well know the word Aire is used as a catch all expression that can cover anything from a patch of muddy gravel up to a smart mini-campsite for motorhomes.
> 
> ...


As I said as one place is lost another is found and it’s normally the case that the place is lost because of it being turned into an unofficial campsite. I never have a problem emptying my cassette as I just use the places provided called campsites. So to answer your question I will do nothing and just carry on enjoying Scotland wildcamping in my campervan


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

runnach said:


> Cale, there are plenty quiet Aires in rural France where where you can continue being an unsociable bugger  or wee village in Archigny there is a free Aire incl ehu, with the latter being on a first come basis. I’ve passed it many times at night while walking dog to find one or none parked up, but the maire put up the cash  to install. One Aire we stopped at at Vers, south France  we had the 5 euro pn Aire to ourselves, this included hot water single shower block and same with WC.
> 
> I’d say using both above examples are wild camping on an Aire with facilities, which can vary. Beggars belief how some countries can fund these facilities, here in UK, there is very little.



We could and should learn from Europe. 
And vast fortunes don’t need to be spent.


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## Val54 (Jul 24, 2020)

“So you can’t be bothered, you are happy to sneak off to the dwindling stock of remaining quiet corners...that’s your prerogative...but why keep p......g on those who are prepared to put in the hard work?

On a personal note, I stay out of the highlands in the summer...I’ve no desire to add to their problems, but I’ll do what little I can to help resolve them...how about you?”

That’s a tad unfair considering this thread is in response to the OP and the CAMPRA edict. Besides I’m sure you stay away from the midges in summer


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

runnach said:


> Don’t disagree with you Bill. For me wild camping is purely a term used by many, whether on a CP or out in the sticks somewhere.
> 
> At the moment Litter Britain is ramping up, which will impact on those of us who camp up somewhere and are responsible. As I have mentioned in previous posts, some, not all tent campers are ruining it for the majority of both MH/Campervan responsible users and owners.
> 
> ...



Could not agree more Terry.

I have had two chats with the man in charge of Fife’s new set up.
And he highlighted your point about Motorhome owners helping to  police  the car parks.

But as we have seen here on this thread, we are not only taking on the people in power, but some owners as well. I just don’t understand why are not as one in this, singing from the same hymn book. But then people are entitled to their opinions.
But I honestly think that if we just sit back accepting what’s going on things will continue to get worse. I hope the fb group get organised and form a body. If they do I will be more than happy to join, and be active within it.


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## antiquesam (Jul 24, 2020)

I've often gone to bed in a small, clean car park miles from civilisation only to wake up to KFC or McDonald's wrappers all around me. I have no idea who left them (probably the litter fairy) but when the dog walkers arrive I know who gets the evil look.


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## SquirrellCook (Jul 24, 2020)

Now that I have made a few of you smile, my serious opinions.  First I will say I'm happy to go along with Phil's views as he does the hard work.
If I were to say I'm going camping, most people would expect me to do it in a tent.  When I explain it's in a motorhome I generally receive mild abuse over how soft I am and it's not real camping.
So from this you might deduce that wild camping is seen to be in the wilderness.  Then due to American t.v. you defecate into a plastic bag and hang it on a tree!
A long time ago I had to live in a vehicle as a necessity, and the only way I got away with it was by leave no trace.  I was lucky as I had somewhere I could wash and keep clean.
At this time the "new age travellers" were still destroying the countryside and anywhere else they set up camp.
So the idea of a home built motorhome was not acceptable.  It was very hard to find a campsite that would accept you.  Then if you did get in, you had to sufferer the disapproving looks of those that had purchased or rented plastic motorhomes.
So maybe if the description is important in a name, maybe " Off Grid Motor Homing" would make more sense.


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> I've often gone to bed in a small, clean car park miles from civilisation only to wake up to KFC or McDonald's wrappers all around me. I have no idea who left them (probably the litter fairy) but when the dog walkers arrive I know who gets the evil look.



Is that from the dogs or the walkers Sam


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## antiquesam (Jul 24, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Is that from the dogs or the walkers Sam


The dogs usually look quite interested in the wrappers, the dog walkers don't usually come back with a poo bag to take home I notice.


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> The dogs usually look quite interested in the wrappers, the dog walkers don't usually come back with a poo bag to take home I notice.



Kinross was awful for dog waste Sam.
But hey they sorted that out pronto.

No overnight parking did the trick.
No dog waste anymore


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## Val54 (Jul 24, 2020)

Apparently we are not alone in being villified ............ this is currently on the BBC updates

"Figures suggest that more people than ever are heading to Britain's rivers with the easing of lockdown - renewing calls for better public rights of access.

It comes as MPs are to consider proposals aimed at opening up the waterways to all. But after recent incidences of overcrowding and littering, there are fears more people on rivers could "cause chaos".

The Canal & Rivers Trust, British Canoeing, the Outdoor Swimming Society and the Angling Trust all report a surge in interest during lockdown and after the easing of restrictions began.

Unlike in Scotland, there is currently no "right to roam" equivalent on waterways in England and Wales.

The vast majority of rivers in England and Wales - around 95% - are in private hands and access is limited. If you swim, fish or paddle without the right permission, you are breaking the law.

"The Crown owns the water you swim in, while the person who owns the property up to the bank is also said to own the bed of the river up to the middle," says Nick Hayes, author of The Book of Trespass."


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## martinmartin (Jul 24, 2020)

SquirrellCook said:


> I get very angry about this name changing.  I've always wanted to be Gay, but I'm a miserable person with no homosexual intent.


Instead of being gay why don't you try being Camp instead.


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## izwozral (Jul 24, 2020)

Wild camping in a luxury box on wheels sounds a bit odd imo but I can't think of a better expression of what we do. Wilding possibly?


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## Tim120 (Jul 24, 2020)

SquirrellCook said:


> I get very angry about this name changing.  I've always wanted to be Gay, but I'm a miserable person with no homosexual intent.



Thats nothing (feel the four yorkshiremen creeping in) I'm black but nobody sees it apart from my thera pissed.


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## n brown (Jul 24, 2020)

as a 3 -legged bearded woman , you have my sympathies


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## martinmartin (Jul 24, 2020)

Tim120 said:


> Thats nothing (feel the four yorkshiremen creeping in) I'm black but nobody sees it apart from my thera pissed.


Luxury, l used to dream of being black but lm all white now.


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## zzr1400tim (Jul 24, 2020)

Personally speaking I am here under a misnomer.. I never "wild camp". My missis (and I ) like the toilet and shower block facilities on a camp site. I would never ever consider doing a crap into the porta potti.. (its strictly just for a few pees in the middle of the night)  I like electric hook up and everything that it brings.
We only go for small private sites (not the butlins ones) here in UK and France too
I came across this forum a few years ago via the late David Olley (Wintonian) who we met in France

My thoughts are to keep the "Wild Camping" name for this forum


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## Tim120 (Jul 24, 2020)

Unfortunately no matter what the name is there will always be people who dislike it for a myirad of ill informed spurious reasons.


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## myvanwy (Jul 24, 2020)

When I came across this site it was because I googled Wild Camping. I quickly realized that it really had nothing to do with what I had started out to look for but because of the threads and the people, i stayed and never regret it. Keep up the good work and keep the title.


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## barge1914 (Jul 24, 2020)

Val54 said:


> Apparently we are not alone in being villified ............ this is currently on the BBC updates
> 
> "Figures suggest that more people than ever are heading to Britain's rivers with the easing of lockdown - renewing calls for better public rights of access.
> 
> ...


Does that mean you have to swim without touching the bottom?


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## barge1914 (Jul 24, 2020)

martinmartin said:


> Instead of being gay why don't you try being Camp instead.


Then you wouldn’t be able to get bits out in a car park!


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## witzend (Jul 24, 2020)

Isn't just Wild Campers that leave their rubbish behind 








						Fury after Cornish beach trashed by London public school kids
					

A bag belonging to a prestigious London public school was left behind at the scene along with cans, smashed bottles and kebab skewers




					www.cornwalllive.com


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## brian c (Jul 24, 2020)

Hi all. We always used the term   Off grid motorhoming.    Because we are off the electric grid.  Gas grid.  Water grid. And sewer grid. And we are in a Motorhome.  We belong to the Wildcamping forum because that is what it is called.   When you talk of aires. I think why do they call it that.  It’s a french word. When you talk of other french things you use the English words. So why not use the English word for aires     Anyhow. So far I have read lots on this forum that Phil has said and I have-found 99.98% of it to be very useful. So if he wants to call it ‘the place for old f—ts to write and read things ‘ I mean wild camping. Then he calls it that.  And I also definitely include ourselves in that comment.  Brian


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## TeamRienza (Jul 24, 2020)

Considering the number of French words absorbed into the English language and vice versa, I don’t see an issue with the use of the word Aire. Given that the majority of Uk based camping carists probably stay in France for their continental trips I can’t see the word usage being changed. I think it more important that those new to motorhoming or who do not visit forums or other sources of information be educated in the ‘etiquette’ of Aire usage which of course is similar to but not mandatory to off grid/wild camping.
As for the forum name, I don’t mind as long as we don’t have ‘fun’. As pointed out in a previous post by someone, it is all about the people on here.

Davy


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## TissyD (Jul 24, 2020)

Just seen this on another "Wildcamping" site.


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## martinmartin (Jul 24, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> Then you wouldn’t be able to get bits out in a car park!


Ooh chairs and a table, shut that door.


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## Fisherman (Jul 24, 2020)

TissyD said:


> Just seen this on another "Wildcamping" site.



I watched this on Scottish tv tonight. I was pleased to see that the blame was laid squarely on irresponsible tent users. Something has to be done about these idiots. They are doing us a lot of harm.


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## The laird (Jul 24, 2020)

I know Scott from years back when I worked on his car and he's no mug ,he knows who is mucking it up for folks and a good guy he is


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## trevskoda (Jul 24, 2020)

Well i dont wild camp ,i only rest after driving in my motorcaravan,as we all know its not safe to drive when tired,oh i almost forgot to say i also snoooorrrr very loud when resting.


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## Biggarmac (Jul 25, 2020)

The post quoted by the OP is the opinion of one person posting on CAMpRA.  Many posts on this Wild Camping forum are the opinion of one person.  That does not mean that everyone here will agree with this opinion.  It is the same on any other forum. One person's post is not necessarily the opinion of the majority of that forum.  
What CAMpRA is trying to get is more facilities for motorhomes and campervans who are self sufficient.  That may just be getting councils to remove height barriers.  It can be getting landowners (council or any other organisation) to install service points.  There is no set one size fits all.  CAMpRA leadership team are not in competition with this, or any other, established forum or group.  We are all motorhomers who enjoy the freedom motorhoming brings.


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## Fisherman (Jul 25, 2020)

Biggarmac said:


> The post quoted by the OP is the opinion of one person posting on CAMpRA.  Many posts on this Wild Camping forum are the opinion of one person.  That does not mean that everyone here will agree with this opinion.  It is the same on any other forum. One person's post is not necessarily the opinion of the majority of that forum.
> What CAMpRA is trying to get is more facilities for motorhomes and campervans who are self sufficient.  That may just be getting councils to remove height barriers.  It can be getting landowners (council or any other organisation) to install service points.  There is no set one size fits all.  CAMpRA leadership team are not in competition with this, or any other, established forum or group.  We are all motorhomers who enjoy the freedom motorhoming brings.



Excellent post Biggarmac, although I don’t do fb, I for one am fully supportive of any group who have our best interests at heart, and who speak on our behalf.


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## 1 Cup (Jul 25, 2020)

Shell shock is now known as letters tell it as it is shell shock.
I'm wild at this. Let's be nice .


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## Dave Preston (Jul 26, 2020)

CShel said:


> *Message on CAMpRA (FB page) today calls to stop using the term ‘Wild Camping’ - I agree:*
> 
> “WE ALL NEED TO ACT NOW! ✍
> 
> ...


I know it will be a challenge but should the forum/website name change to a more suitable name like free parking, off-site parking, free spirits?


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## ragittyrags (Jul 26, 2020)

CShel said:


> *Message on CAMpRA (FB page) today calls to stop using the term ‘Wild Camping’ - I agree:*
> 
> “WE ALL NEED TO ACT NOW! ✍
> 
> ...


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## Tweedy (Jul 26, 2020)

Referring  to change the name and  the article by Mr Glasgow Maybe not change the name but certainly not refer to as been Wild Campers.
I have a few points to mention on the way to the Scottish North  500 we stopped of at a night park spot near Sedbergh and on arrival noticed rubbish strewn  around  the area of course we didn’t know who had left the litter but before leving the next morning we bagged All the rubbish and put it in a bin at the next stop, we did this for two reasons one so that no one locally could say that they saw a Motorhom on the park overnight and two there where sheep nibbling at the tissues that had been left. I see that there is a Site web page called stay the night by Forestryland.gov.scot they are inviting people to stay over for free at various sites and then provide feedback, they are suggesting it’s free for the remainder of 2020 and maybe introduce a charge of £5 later so once again leave only “ Footprints.”  . As far as Mr Glasgow is concerned since arriving in Scotland I have spent over £200 on fuel and anticipate another £300 before we finish.yesterday we bought provisions from a Londis Store on Loch Ness totalling £130 so does he not want the local businesses to take this kind Of revenue, you can bet your life they do.. last but not least I always refer to Park For The Night and not Wild Camping Because that’s how I see our night stops. Sorry it’s a bit long winded but I thought it important to make the above points. In my younger days I was involved in full contact Karate but never said I was going to fight we always said we are meeting at a competition, same thing but a better way of putting it.


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## Timberjack69 (Jul 26, 2020)

My wife and I spent 5 months touring around the UK "wiId camping" where we could in our motorhome. In New Zealand it is referred to as freedom camping. Wild camping would be more getting out into the hills and forests. There is a different attitude here in NZ. Some super markets (equivalent to Tescos, Sainsburys etc) and some councils actually provide water and dump stations for waste water to attract responsible campers in campervans, caravans and motorhomes as they can see the business and revenue campers bring with them and thus creating jobs in the area. These campers are encouraged to be self contained, meaning they have onboard water storage facilities for waste and fresh water, sealed rubbish container, washing facilities and a readily accessable toilet. For this they become certified as self contained. This allows greater freedoms in where they can camp and stay. Councils set aside places to freedom camp and many super markets allow overnight stays in their car parks. Towns which encourage campers are certified by the motor caravan associations and clubs as "motor home friendly towns and cities" to encourage people there. 
It was quite a shock to see barriers at car parks all over the UK thus turning away business. 
I understand there is another issue with travellers outstaying there welcome in the UK an the laws making this hard to police.


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## TissyD (Jul 26, 2020)

Why not change the name to " The Travellers", after all they are doing just the same as fulltimers, living free.


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## Admin (Jul 26, 2020)

Just to make a point here for those that did not read my post...

The name of this website WILL NOT be changing.
We will not be changing the label "wild camping" to anything else.

THREAD LOCKED


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