# Am not scrappiing bertie!!!!!!!



## pink (Jan 24, 2013)

I,m gutted! Just taken Bertie for an early mot and the old fellas failed miserably...they recommend he go to motorhome heaven...failed on a ceased brake caliper, the rear suspension isnt attached to the body, one wiper not working and because hes got continental headlights..we did notice a bang when leaving leics for scotland, but on inspection didnt see the suspension, and driving didnt seem any different..he got us up there and back and up 1 in 3 hills and around hairpin bends like it!!! Garage wont entertain mending him due to sourcing parts...but am now awaiting a second opinion from the guy who fixed the gearstick when i first fetched him..fingers, legs and everything else crossed he can be resurected.....


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## Deleted member 21686 (Jan 24, 2013)

pink said:


> I,m gutted! Just taken Bertie for an early mot and the old fellas failed miserably...they recommend he go to motorhome heaven...failed on a ceased brake caliper, the rear suspension isnt attached to the body, one wiper not working and because hes got continental headlights..we did notice a bang when leaving leics for scotland, but on inspection didnt see the suspension, and driving didnt seem any different..he got us up there and back and up 1 in 3 hills and around hairpin bends like it!!! Garage wont entertain mending him due to sourcing parts...but am now awaiting a second opinion from the guy who fixed the gearstick when i first fetched him..fingers, legs and everything else crossed he can be resurected.....



Awe I hope you can save him, you've had so much fun with him.
Don't give up hope.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jan 24, 2013)

Poor old Bertie! 

A lot of vehicles can be rescued, it's all down to money and finding someone who knows what to do...


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## Deleted member 21686 (Jan 24, 2013)

Some garages just can't be arsed, particularly if there's no easy buck to be made.

Find a small garage where they take on a challenge.


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## n brown (Jan 24, 2013)

sounds like they're a bit lazy!the brake cylinder could possibly be un seized with a bit of heat,and it sounds like the suspension needs welding.the wiper blade mechanism might be repairable but other makes may fit it,lights sound sortable too.is there a tabbert forum or owners club ? isee the suspension as the biggie,but thats without looking at it,a decent vehicle welder might sort it easily


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## Ste (Jan 24, 2013)

If they're no onger available, a decent fabricator should be able to make a reverse copy of the other side for the suspension hanger. Everything else is easily fixed, or replaced.


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## outtolunch (Jan 24, 2013)

lights are dead easy you just need the stick on converter I got mine from amazon I can sort out which ones you need when I get home


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## snowbirds (Jan 24, 2013)

*Poor bertie*

Hi Pink,


Don't scrap there are lots of continental spares out there look on line or go to Auto jumbles it's not a lot and there are parts out there so don't give up to early,what is the base van and what year.

Regards Snowbirds.







pink said:


> I,m gutted! Just taken Bertie for an early mot and the old fellas failed miserably...they recommend he go to motorhome heaven...failed on a ceased brake caliper, the rear suspension isnt attached to the body, one wiper not working and because hes got continental headlights..we did notice a bang when leaving leics for scotland, but on inspection didnt see the suspension, and driving didnt seem any different..he got us up there and back and up 1 in 3 hills and around hairpin bends like it!!! Garage wont entertain mending him due to sourcing parts...but am now awaiting a second opinion from the guy who fixed the gearstick when i first fetched him..fingers, legs and everything else crossed he can be resurected.....


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## pink (Jan 24, 2013)

n brown said:


> sounds like they're a bit lazy!the brake cylinder could possibly be un seized with a bit of heat,and it sounds like the suspension needs welding.the wiper blade mechanism might be repairable but other makes may fit it,lights sound sortable too.is there a tabbert forum or owners club ? isee the suspension as the biggie,but thats without looking at it,a decent vehicle welder might sort it easily



thanks n brown, the only forum i,ve managed to find is one for older mhs, called old timers, the administrator has a tabbert condor but its a german site...will try to communicate with google translate i think...got to agree with what you said about the garage, think they,re ok so long as they,re just putting parts on...


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## pink (Jan 24, 2013)

outtolunch said:


> lights are dead easy you just need the stick on converter I got mine from amazon I can sort out which ones you need when I get home



hi, aww,thankyou..they did say to me though that the stickers were no longer acceptable?


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## mariesnowgoose (Jan 24, 2013)

pink said:


> hi, aww,thankyou..they did say to me though that the stickers were no longer acceptable?



My bet is cos they would want to fit new lights and make more money (if they could get lights for your vehicle, that is)


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## oldish hippy (Jan 24, 2013)

but from what i remember it is a pug chassis so it should be easy enough to get the bits headlight just have to look at fitting some from something else tabbert is the bit on top


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## Irritable Owl (Jan 24, 2013)

If you get stuck send me a picture...I might be able to weld him back together for you...as for the caliper I am pretty sure we could sort that too...


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## outtolunch (Jan 24, 2013)

pink said:


> hi, aww,thankyou..they did say to me though that the stickers were no longer acceptable?



I've got problems with Bert at the next MOT if that's the case as although they are standard fiat ducatto lights the rhd ones are at silly prices about £120 each when I looked into it last year, you can get a pair for my kitcar for about £50 so I maybe fitting a pair of round ones in place of the square this spring.


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## mark61 (Jan 24, 2013)

outtolunch said:


> I've got problems with Bert at the next MOT if that's the case as although they are standard fiat ducatto lights the rhd ones are at silly prices about £120 each when I looked into it last year, you can get a pair for my kitcar for about £50 so I maybe fitting a pair of round ones in place of the square this spring.



I'd look into that before spending any money. The way I understand it, is your lights mustn't dazzle other drivers. If that is achieved by black sticky tape, that is fine. I do know from experience though that some MOT stations wont accept tape, while other ones are happy with it.


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## Makzine (Jan 24, 2013)

Might sound silly but can you not change the headlights over?? :idea: I know on a 2cv you just swop over the lights from lhd to rhd.  I sorted our wipers out by swoping them for a set from a transit, only thing is you don't have park on them.  Hope you get it sorted even if it takes time.:drive::wave:


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## Makzine (Jan 24, 2013)

Might be worth checking the headlights as do some of them have a method of converting them by adjusting at the back :idea:


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## outtolunch (Jan 24, 2013)

mark61 said:


> I'd look into that before spending any money. The way I understand it, is your lights mustn't dazzle other drivers. If that is achieved by black sticky tape, that is fine. I do know from experience though that some MOT stations wont accept tape, while other ones are happy with it.



it passed the MOT last year with a set of these on http://http://www.amazon.co.uk/Eurolite-Drive-Headlight-Converters-Driving/dp/B001P5UVTE
I put a new set on as the ones already one were very tatty and as they were only £4.39 as set got a spare set just in case one fell off before the next MOT ( could have saved 9p they have gone down to £4.30 )

Cant find anything on the net about them being unacceptable for the MOT and this document from Jan 11 states they are acceptable http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Headlamp%20Aim%20Guide.pdf but does state beam converters so that's why sticky black tape may fail.


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## pink (Jan 24, 2013)

Thankyou everyone for the support and helpful ideas...i have booked bertie in for another mot at 4pm tomorrow at a station recommended via the guy who fixed the gearlever, and then to take it to another garage he works for who will price up repairs..i was also told that the first garage had been, to put it midly, bloody ruthless,and i should never have gone there,,so much for the bro in laws recommendation!! They also failed it on the fuel cap, which is a temporary replacement one they sell at petrol station forecourts, and exhaust and all brakes,front offside binding badly, and out of balance with rear,and ineffective handbrake..poor braking and the suspension i can well understand...fingers crossed i.ll see what tomorrow and the weekend bring and hopefully work will start in mending him...


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## pink (Jan 24, 2013)

Winterhawk said:


> If you get stuck send me a picture...I might be able to weld him back together for you...as for the caliper I am pretty sure we could sort that too...



Thankyou Winterhawk, thats very kind of you...i have found a garage who say they,re willing to sort it, after another mot at a different garage, but will get back to you if theres any problem...


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## kimbowbill (Jan 24, 2013)

I had exactly same Loraine  with mine when  i had that bump, nobody wanted to repair  it, even tho it was an insurance job, Lotty helped me find someone who did the work, there will be loads out there who will do it i's sure of it, good luck for tomoz, let us know what happens xx


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## phillybarbour (Jan 24, 2013)

Just been looking at the pics of your van, hope you can make it work it would be a great shame to let such a distinctive van go. Your van looks brill.


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## pink (Jan 24, 2013)

kimbowbill said:


> I had exactly same Loraine  with mine when  i had that bump, nobody wanted to repair  it, even tho it was an insurance job, Lotty helped me find someone who did the work, there will be loads out there who will do it i's sure of it, good luck for tomoz, let us know what happens xx



Thankyou..will do xx


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## Burtie (Jan 24, 2013)

Do the headlights have the indicators built in to them if not somebody has already
Mentioned about fiat Ducato headlights the earlier type obviously if they fit I'm 
Thinking they are also the same as the talbot express. I have spare headlights here
You are welcome to


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## pink (Jan 24, 2013)

Burtie said:


> Do the headlights have the indicators built in to them if not somebody has already
> Mentioned about fiat Ducato headlights the earlier type obviously if they fit I'm
> Thinking they are also the same as the talbot express. I have spare headlights here
> You are welcome to



Wow,thankyou Burtie!..i,ll get back to you if tomorrows mot fails them too


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## outtolunch (Jan 24, 2013)

I have found that Bertie is based on a Peugeot J9 with an Alko chassis and the place to get spares is Turkey where they were also build under licence until 2010

unfortunately the headlights used were not from the van


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## Burtie (Jan 24, 2013)

That's no problem they are only stuck in my shed but I figured if a fellow camper needs them 
Then they are here


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## oldish hippy (Jan 24, 2013)

outtolunch said:


> I have found that Bertie is based on a Peugeot J9 with an Alko chassis and the place to get spares is Turkey where they were also build under licence until 2010
> 
> unfortunately the headlights used were not from the van




Thanks for that glad to see my memory isnt going did some research for pink when she first got it


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## yorkslass (Jan 24, 2013)

good luck for tomorrow:wave:


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## Irritable Owl (Jan 24, 2013)

Hope tomorrow goes well..


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## lotty (Jan 24, 2013)

I hope you get sorted, would be a shame to loose him after you've had such a great time with him.
Fingers crossed for tomorrow.
:goodluck:


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## snowbirds (Jan 25, 2013)

*Good luck*

Hi pink,


Good luck hope you get it sorted.

Snowbirds.:dance::dance:


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## Tbear (Jan 25, 2013)

pink said:


> I,m gutted! Just taken Bertie for an early mot and the old fellas failed miserably...they recommend he go to motorhome heaven...failed on a ceased brake caliper, the rear suspension isnt attached to the body, one wiper not working and because hes got continental headlights..we did notice a bang when leaving leics for scotland, but on inspection didnt see the suspension, and driving didnt seem any different..he got us up there and back and up 1 in 3 hills and around hairpin bends like it!!! Garage wont entertain mending him due to sourcing parts...but am now awaiting a second opinion from the guy who fixed the gearstick when i first fetched him..fingers, legs and everything else crossed he can be resurected.....



Hi Pink,

You could try Fleet Services in Peterborough. :: Fleet Services UK Ltd - Home ::. They have a mechanic that drives cars as old as me or almost and they do a lot of work for Wellsbridge Motorhomes so should be able to sort you out for a price. They have done work for me to a very high standard and reasonable cost.

Richard


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## Bushtrekker (Jan 25, 2013)

*That has to be rubbish.*



pink said:


> hi, aww,thankyou..they did say to me though that the stickers were no longer acceptable?



Every foreign car and commercial vehicle visiting here would be illegal if it was true. Good luck XXX


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## splitty67 (Jan 25, 2013)

Just adding to what's already been said Lorraine,"Nil illegitemi carborundum",translation,"Don't let the b'stards grind you down" By the sound of it they're a right bunch of tossers at that garage,pay absolutely no attention to what they're telling you. We had a 1967 VW splitscreen for 14 years and used to hear this crap all the time,they used to be chuckling amongst themselves as we'd drive in to some garages. But you know what?when we sold it seven years ago it was insured for £10,000,it's still going strong and is probably insured for twice that much now. All the jobs you've mentioned are easily repairable so whatever you do,DON'T scrap it,you should see the state of some Beetles and campers we've come across over the years,some of them have ended up as show-winners.There obviously comes a time when you have to accept something's going to be beyond economical repair but I very much doubt your Bertie is there just yet. Regarding the other matter,no apologies necessary,these things can't be helped. In any case,I'll still be doing what I said,that is,tidying up the bits that need attention,then putting it through an early MOT,all this will take a bit of time,especially as it's still snowing out there,so there's every chance we'll be able to work something out,don't worry.


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## pink (Jan 25, 2013)

Well, what a difference a day makes!! Second mot went a hell of a lot better!..failed on 2 things as opposed to the previous 11!..shock absorber and a bush with excessive play..guy did say there were one or two other bits, but didnt fail on anything else...will make a phone call in the morning to see when the garage can have a butchers..


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## pink (Jan 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## pink (Jan 25, 2013)

Tbear said:


> Hi Pink,
> 
> You could try Fleet Services in Peterborough. :: Fleet Services UK Ltd - Home ::. They have a mechanic that drives cars as old as me or almost and they do a lot of work for Wellsbridge Motorhomes so should be able to sort you out for a price. They have done work for me to a very high standard and reasonable cost.
> 
> Richard



Thanks Richard, will certainly keep a note of them...


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## Burtie (Jan 25, 2013)

Glad it went better for you although it would have been mega if it passed 
But it must be a weight of your mind now


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## pink (Jan 25, 2013)

splitty67 said:


> Just adding to what's already been said Lorraine,"Nil illegitemi carborundum",translation,"Don't let the b'stards grind you down" By the sound of it they're a right bunch of tossers at that garage,pay absolutely no attention to what they're telling you. We had a 1967 VW splitscreen for 14 years and used to hear this crap all the time,they used to be chuckling amongst themselves as we'd drive in to some garages. But you know what?when we sold it seven years ago it was insured for £10,000,it's still going strong and is probably insured for twice that much now. All the jobs you've mentioned are easily repairable so whatever you do,DON'T scrap it,you should see the state of some Beetles and campers we've come across over the years,some of them have ended up as show-winners.There obviously comes a time when you have to accept something's going to be beyond economical repair but I very much doubt your Bertie is there just yet. Regarding the other matter,no apologies necessary,these things can't be helped. In any case,I'll still be doing what I said,that is,tidying up the bits that need attention,then putting it through an early MOT,all this will take a bit of time,especially as it's still snowing out there,so there's every chance we'll be able to work something out,don't worry.



Thanks Dave..did get a bit despondent yesterday to say the least, but you.re right in saying not to listen to that garage! Berties not ready for motorhome heaven afterall...hope to hear tomorrow when repairs can start...


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## Bushtrekker (Jan 26, 2013)

*Result!!!*



pink said:


> Well, what a difference a day makes!! Second mot went a hell of a lot better!..failed on 2 things as opposed to the previous 11!..shock absorber and a bush with excessive play..guy did say there were one or two other bits, but didnt fail on anything else...will make a phone call in the morning to see when the garage can have a butchers..



That just proves what a load of rubbish MOT's are.


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## Deleted member 21686 (Jan 26, 2013)

pink said:


> Well, what a difference a day makes!! Second mot went a hell of a lot better!..failed on 2 things as opposed to the previous 11!..shock absorber and a bush with excessive play..guy did say there were one or two other bits, but didnt fail on anything else...will make a phone call in the morning to see when the garage can have a butchers..



Great news pink Bertie can breathe again.


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## Viktor (Jan 26, 2013)

Personally I prefer the british system.  There are waiting lists in the NI centres, and the examiners can be calous.  I've experienced them when the vehicle reaches about 6 years old thumping into the sills with a screw driver to puncture a hole especially if there is underseal present.  They argue if it gives it would fail soon.  Also they would scrape off sealant on brake pipes etc.  While I can see a reason for this imagine you are bringing your newly converted van which you have expensively converted on an older vehicle which of course you have gone to great pains to ensure is rust free and properly sealed underneath.

In my case Wellhouse converted an older second hand Japanese import that comes into the UK without corrosion.  I had it professionally treated and sealed before the conversion took place and all the paintwork was renovated and sealed with Diamond Brite at the cost of several hundred pounds.  I take the van back to Wellhouse for its MOT because they know exactly what state it's in.

If I took it to a centre in NI they would simply look at it and say 'Aha an older van' get the screwdriver out and start digging for 'hidden faults' under the sealant.


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## hairyneil (Jan 26, 2013)

Viktor said:


> Personally I prefer the british system.  There are waiting lists in the NI centres, and the examiners can be calous.  I've experienced them when the vehicle reaches about 6 years old thumping into the sills with a screw driver to puncture a hole especially if there is underseal present.  They argue if it gives it would fail soon.  Also they would scrape off sealant on brake pipes etc.  While I can see a reason for this imagine you are bringing your newly converted van which you have expensively converted on an older vehicle which of course you have gone to great pains to ensure is rust free and properly sealed underneath.
> 
> In my case Wellhouse converted an older second hand Japanese import that comes into the UK without corrosion.  I had it professionally treated and sealed before the conversion took place and all the paintwork was renovated and sealed with Diamond Brite at the cost of several hundred pounds.  I take the van back to Wellhouse for its MOT because they know exactly what state it's in.
> 
> If I took it to a centre in NI they would simply look at it and say 'Aha an older van' get the screwdriver out and start digging for 'hidden faults' under the sealant.



No experience of NI but it's not allowed in mainland UK

From the testers manual...



> Having identified the important load bearing members and ‘prescribed areas’ on a vehicle, the tester should determine whether they are excessively corroded, firstly by visual inspection and then by finger and thumb pressure.
> 
> If necessary, the Corrosion Assessment Tool should be used to assess the extent of any corrosion by careful scraping or light tapping of the affected areas.
> It is important that use of the Corrosion Assessment Tool is restricted to ascertaining that the failure criteria are met and not used for heavy scraping or poking of the affected areas.
> ...



The corrosion assessment tool is a small, lightweight plastic hammer on an aluminium shaft.


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## Viktor (Jan 26, 2013)

Possibly it has changed then.  I was raging when it happened to me a few years back and tried to complain but the supervisor wouldn't entertain it. Still I'll never trust I wouldn't happen again as you're seated away from the vehicle and can't see exactly what is going on and they are still going to go scraping off my sealant.  Much better to have the british system and a garage who look after your vehicle on a regular basis that you can trust.  I imagine the majority would be like that and not like the chancers mentioned in the original post.


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## Deleted member 5759 (Jan 26, 2013)

Good luck in getting Bertie rejuvenated!

Peter


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## scampa (Jan 26, 2013)

Be aware that if you take the advice to report the first garage to VOSA for possible unfair or over zealous MOT failures, then VOSA may request an independent inspection of the vehicle. A possible outcome of this could be that they judge the  SECOND garage to have been unduly lenient with their MOT test, and may lead to more expense for you in the long term!

My advice would be to just use the garage that you're happiest with in the future.

Luckily, I found a garage that I can trust to be honest and fair, so I've been using them for years now. Before that, I would always ask the MOT tester, *before he carried out the test*, to clearly point out any failures to me, as I would be doing all of the repair work (if needed) myself. This helped to avoid the possibility of a "rogue" tester trying to create some lucrative work for himself.


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## n brown (Jan 26, 2013)

another bonus if you have the same mot place for a while, you tend to build up a bit of a rapport,and if they're told from the start that you do your own repairs,and they can see that you've done them ok,they can be very handy!.my guys have let me use spring compressors and bearing presses,etc,and have given me lots of tips and advice.


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## mark61 (Jan 27, 2013)

Haven't had a vehicle fail an MOT in about 12 or 13 years. I have used either dedicated MOT centres, (they do exist here ) garages that also do MOT's and for the last couple of years I have my vehicle serviced at same time as MOT is due and the mechanic takes it for the MOT. Honesty is still important in the UK.   :raofl:


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## hairyneil (Jan 27, 2013)

scampa said:


> A possible outcome of this could be that they judge the  SECOND garage to have been unduly lenient with their MOT test, and may lead to more expense for you in the long term!



My father was one of the first testers when the MOT was introduced in 1960? I was bought up and have spent most of my life around vehicle workshops of all sizes, mopeds to PSV & HGV artics, so mostly have a good idea of what to expect when I take my vehicles for test. However, we're all fallible and can miss things occasionally. We all hate an MOT failure but I think I would want to know the worst about my vehicle.


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## cooljules (Jan 27, 2013)

scampa said:


> Be aware that if you take the advice to report the first garage to VOSA for possible unfair or over zealous MOT failures, then VOSA may request an independent inspection of the vehicle. A possible outcome of this could be that they judge the  SECOND garage to have been unduly lenient with their MOT test, and may lead to more expense for you in the long term!
> 
> My advice would be to just use the garage that you're happiest with in the future.
> 
> Luckily, I found a garage that I can trust to be honest and fair, so I've been using them for years now. Before that, I would always ask the MOT tester, *before he carried out the test*, to clearly point out any failures to me, as I would be doing all of the repair work (if needed) myself. This helped to avoid the possibility of a "rogue" tester trying to create some lucrative work for himself.



how does that work with the 2nd garage? i reported a garage in the late 90's as they failed my car saying it was a deathtrap, suspesion, brakes, bodywork etc etc.  i got intouch with VOsa or whoever, took it to a another place, where i met their inspector, he did a test, about 10 times more thorough, past it....went to the garage that failed me, saw the MOT guy, gave him a bollocking and made him do some tests etc. 

I took my van for a test other week, looks tatty (it is) but its solid.


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## Neckender (Jan 27, 2013)

I do every Holiday. :drive:

John.


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## yorkslass (Jan 27, 2013)

pink said:


> Well, what a difference a day makes!! Second mot went a hell of a lot better!..failed on 2 things as opposed to the previous 11!..shock absorber and a bush with excessive play..guy did say there were one or two other bits, but didnt fail on anything else...will make a phone call in the morning to see when the garage can have a butchers..



you must be so relieved. sounds like everything will be sorted soon,and on the road again.


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## Smaug (Jan 28, 2013)

pink said:


> Well, what a difference a day makes!! Second mot went a hell of a lot better!..failed on 2 things as opposed to the previous 11!..shock absorber and a bush with excessive play..guy did say there were one or two other bits, but didnt fail on anything else...will make a phone call in the morning to see when the garage can have a butchers..



So, what happened about the broken suspension link? Had it healed itself while resting on the driveway, or did you apply some ointment & a bandage?

If anyone wants an indpendant test station, try your local bus depot/ garage. They will have all the gear for big vehicles & generally don't repair private vehicles, but many will do MoT's.


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## pink (Jan 28, 2013)

Bertie has his mot!!!

 Think i found garages at each end of the scale...it wasnt just that the first one was over zealous, it was the fact that they wouldnt entertain any repairs, just told me to scrap it...the second did seem a bit  too lenient, but the important thing is that an mot was issued, and any dangerous repairs got done...Chips garage in Leicester carried out the repairs, he modified a pair of new shock absorbers so they,d fit, charged a reasonable rate and has thus guaranteed any future repairs will be carried out by him..

THANK YOU all for your offers of help and advice, you,re a credit to the forum!!!


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## pink (Jan 28, 2013)

Smaug said:


> So, what happened about the broken suspension link? Had it healed itself while resting on the driveway, or did you apply some ointment & a bandage?
> 
> If anyone wants an indpendant test station, try your local bus depot/ garage. They will have all the gear for big vehicles & generally don't repair private vehicles, but many will do MoT's.



It wasnt a broken suspension link, but broken rear shock absorber due to it being ceased..since been replaced with new,after being modified as original ones seem to be unavailable...


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## Poppy (Jan 28, 2013)

I hope you get it sorted.....my van The Duck is just starting to be converted & hasn't taken me anywhere yet, however, I know I'd be gutted, even now!


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## n brown (Jan 28, 2013)

same.result. question everything,especially the' experts'


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