# Winter



## Deleted member 73314 (Oct 27, 2017)

Good Morning, 

This is my first winter after buying my first motorhome, As it stands i currently have the motorhome at the side of my house on constant 240v hook up, the water tanks are inside the van (half full) as is the boiler (full) and the battery charger is on constantly via the 240v, the heating is on at round 18 degrees and i was planning on leaving it this way right through the winter, is this a good or bad idea? 

i can drain all the tanks and switch everything off if need be but i have everything on 240v as it is so i am unsure what would be best to do?


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## delicagirl (Oct 27, 2017)

i would drain the drinking water. if you let it stand for a long while it can go manky ...


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## witzend (Oct 27, 2017)

Living where you do it's likely to get below freezing I'd be temped to drain it completely not worth taking a chance on frost damage


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## Deleted member 73314 (Oct 27, 2017)

***** said:


> Drain everything anytime when it might get below 5 deg
> Your boiler should self drain by the auto dump switch when it gets to around 5 deg, but may not drain completely.
> We have had two vans which have not fully drained, you can check this by placing a bucket under the boiler drain point to check quantity. Sometimes, we have needed to remove a breather at the top of the boiler to get a full drain.
> To drain, you need to turn the power off to the water pump, otherwise you will damage this. Open all taps positioned in centre so it does not air lock in hot and cold pipes. Lift shower head up high to drain. Open any water pipe drain taps (we have one for hot and one for cold.
> ...



thank you for the reply, i will get it all drained down this weekend and switch everything off. does the leisure battery need to be left on constant charge or will i just disconnect the EHU?


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## Deleted member 73314 (Oct 27, 2017)

***** said:


> If you have solar, the solar will do the job, if not hook up every week for a day.
> Beware that when a van stands, some engine batteries can go flat due the the computer still working!



i do have solar fitted so hopefully that can do the job, i will start and move the van once every few weeks just to make sure everything is ok. thanks again for the help, i really appreciate it


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## runnach (Oct 27, 2017)

All I would add to Grahams good comments is if it is practical an air compressor through the pipes with taps open to shift any residual water, a egg cup full  of screen wash down each plug hole stops any traps freezing, remove the shower head and re attach when using the van again , two reasons freezing and no nasty bacterias living in there (legionairres) 

remember to leave taps open so any water can expand if it is not practical to blow it out, 

Channa


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## Deleted member 73314 (Oct 27, 2017)

hairydog said:


> When I had hookup at home, that is what I did. I'd keep the water tank full, not half full. Mould can develop in damp, but won't under water. I used a thermostatically-controlled electric convector heater. I put it just outside the (open) bathroom door.
> Be wary of the battery charger being on 24/7. A smart one will look after your battery. A cheap one will wreck it.
> Note that lots of people will tell you this is the wrong approach. I write from several decades of experience, so what do I know?



thank you, i can fill the tanks and have everything running to keep the cold away no problem, i just dont know what would be "the right way" if there is such a thing, the battery charger is the one built in to the Sargent PSU (i am sure its the EC200) and has a switch to have the charger on or off?


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## Deleted member 73314 (Oct 27, 2017)

hairydog said:


> That is not true with a Truma combi. They can be used with or without water. They can be used stationary or driving.



I have the Truma Trumatic Boiler in my van as standard


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## runnach (Oct 27, 2017)

Another useful tip is with your fridge let it defrost and a wipe, then ensure the door is left open a little so it doesn't smell when you next use it. Most fridges have the transit clip but easily broken, in the past I have used an old pillow to wedge it open, rest nothing against the seals they cant distort .

Shut the gas off too, if you have a bottle mounted regulator take it inside the house if possible, moisture can get in the diaphragm and cause issues when you re commission , cover the end of the pigtail with insulation tape to stop moisture and spiders getting in there,

Channa


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## RoaminRog (Oct 27, 2017)

Its not a bad idea to open all the cupboard and locker doors internally, to avoid condensation forming inside. It avoids hot/cold spots.


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## runnach (Oct 27, 2017)

RoaminRog said:


> Its not a bad idea to open all the cupboard and locker doors internally, to avoid condensation forming inside. It avoids hot/cold spots.


 Good advice Rog ,airflow is a good idea, also the remis/ seitz blinds leave up , keeping them down for long periods can bugger the springs they can be re tensioned but not the point .ensure decorative curtains are not touching surfaces too 

Channa


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## jeffmossy (Oct 27, 2017)

Or better still, why park it up ?  use it , empty your water as stated in previous post and take bottled water with you , boil the kettle for hot water, we have done this for years without any issues . :drive:


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## caledonia (Oct 27, 2017)

Why park up for winter? It's the best time of the year. Ye canny beat a crisp frosty morning in some remote Glen.


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## AllanD (Oct 27, 2017)

bigross255 said:


> i do have solar fitted so hopefully that can do the job, i will start and move the van once every few weeks just to make sure everything is ok. thanks again for the help, i really appreciate it



A good way of running the van every now and then is use it to drive somewhere on a day out, for example to a National Trust property or country park. It’s great to have a good long day walk on a crisp winter day then head back to the van for a pre made lunch and a fresh brew. Keep the tanks drained/winterised though and just take some water in a container (and dishes can be done when back home).

edit, sorry for similar comments to above 2 posts, both beat me to it


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## Deleted member 73314 (Oct 27, 2017)

caledonia said:


> Why park up for winter? It's the best time of the year. Ye canny beat a crisp frosty morning in some remote Glen.



it is parked up because at the moment i dont have the correct license to drive the van as i am only 30 and the van is above 3.5t i cannot drive it until i have passed my C1 test so it will need to sit and wait until i get that out of the way.


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## Minisorella (Oct 27, 2017)

I drain the tanks and boiler when I get home after every trip, all year round... no idea why. I know it's overkill but it's a routine habit now and everything's always been ticketyboo. Actually, slight fib because I can't easily empty the separate toilet flush tank other than by manic flushing, so that tends to get forgotten and I've sometimes had black bits in that water. I also put Birdie on ehu on the drive. I can then use the house hoover if she needs a good clean, charge up the bits that stay in the van (eg. electric toothbrush... but that's a whole other thread lol!), plus it gives me somewhere to plug in the lawnmower without fighting to get the garage door open :raofl:  I always prop open the bathroom, wardrobe and fridge doors for good circulation - again, all year round - and put a splosh of Zoflora down each drain to keep them sweet. 

In winter, I put a little electric heater inside and set the thermostat low to protect from frost and help to keep the damp away. My boiler doesn't 'dump' so just as well to be in the habit of emptying everything. I used to use moisture traps with gel crystals to protect the fabrics and furnishings but I tipped one over by accident once in the overhead bed area... if you've ever tried to clear up that invisible sticky oily-feeling mess, then you'll know why I won't touch them now! I do move all the seats and cushions and any clothes/bedding/mattress topper,etc, an inch or two away from the walls though, plus open all the cupboard doors and make sure the external silver screens are on, to cut down condensation from the cab area. I don't take everything into the house as some people do because I keep camping through the winter as often as I can, so that would be a logistical nightmare. As it is, it doesn't take me long to be ready for the next trip. Gotta love winter camping!

Oh and about keeping the engine battery charged. Before having solar fitted with a gizmo that keeps all batteries topped up, the (then new) engine battery used to be flat as a pancake after a not moving the van for a couple of weeks... soon got that solar system and battery master organised! It's all too easy to let a couple of weeks tick by without noticing, even with the best of intentions.

Good luck with your first winter Bigross... stay cosy


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## Deleted member 73314 (Oct 27, 2017)

Minisorella said:


> I drain the tanks and boiler when I get home after every trip, all year round... no idea why. I know it's overkill but it's a routine habit now and everything's always been ticketyboo. Actually, slight fib because I can't easily empty the separate toilet flush tank other than by manic flushing, so that tends to get forgotten and I've sometimes had black bits in that water. I also put Birdie on ehu on the drive. I can then use the house hoover if she needs a good clean, charge up the bits that stay in the van (eg. electric toothbrush... but that's a whole other thread lol!), plus it gives me somewhere to plug in the lawnmower without fighting to get the garage door open :raofl:  I always prop open the bathroom, wardrobe and fridge doors for good circulation - again, all year round - and put a splosh of Zoflora down each drain to keep them sweet.
> 
> In winter, I put a little electric heater inside and set the thermostat low to protect from frost and help to keep the damp away. My boiler doesn't 'dump' so just as well to be in the habit of emptying everything. I used to use moisture traps with gel crystals to protect the fabrics and furnishings but I tipped one over by accident once in the overhead bed area... if you've ever tried to clear up that invisible sticky oily-feeling mess, then you'll know why I won't touch them now! I do move all the seats and cushions and any clothes/bedding/mattress topper,etc, an inch or two away from the walls though, plus open all the cupboard doors and make sure the external silver screens are on, to cut down condensation from the cab area. I don't take everything into the house as some people do because I keep camping through the winter as often as I can, so that would be a logistical nightmare. As it is, it doesn't take me long to be ready for the next trip. Gotta love winter camping!
> 
> ...



thank you very much for your reply, sounds like thats what i will be doing this weekend then!


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## RoaminRog (Oct 27, 2017)

I found that keeping the van constantly charging through the Sargent was frightenly expensive. I have refillable gas fitted and it is much cheaper to keep the heater chugging away using the thermostat to switch it on and off.


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## silverweed (Oct 27, 2017)

***** said:


> They can be used for heating, but if the switch is set by mistake to heat the water it can do serious damage[/QUOTE.
> 
> On my heater the only options are water heater only or water heater and heating. I can not have heating alone.


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## Mick H (Oct 27, 2017)

I used to carry out many of the procedures already posted, on this thread, but found that, in practice, several were a waste of time.

I'm mainly referring to having heating on, and dehumidifiers. Ventilation is the key requirement. Some vans are designed, better than others, in this respect.

Charging the batteries, is needed, all year round, when the van is not in use, not just when laid up, in winter. Whilst solar would be ok for much of the year, during most UK winters, it should not be relied on, without making check on battery condition. Whilst keeping it on permanent EHU, could well lead to a shortened battery life.

Regarding the Truma combi's, I'm not sure, without checking, but thought that I'd read that, if the hot water was switched on, with no water in, then it would operate a trip, which would need resetting, of course. Better by far, not to do this anyway.

I too, drain down both hot and cold water, but leave them open, until I've driven the van, in order to completely drain them both.
Getting as much water out of ALL of the system, is very important, because of the possibility of frost damage.


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## TeamRienza (Oct 27, 2017)

I am surprised that so few have commented on keeping the heater on at 18 degrees. Surely this must be quite expensive. In the past I have used a 100 watt tube heater on a timer for a few hours, but with the current van I put no heat on at all (apart from when using the van). I simply make sure that on most days I have the door and vents open to allow air circulation, I suppose I am fortunate to be retired and in a position to open the van as it is at home. I tend to now give more credence to allowing the van to be in balance with the atmosphere as it is the difference in temperature that seems to cause condensation.

I agree with most of the other recommendations on empty water tanks and removing or airing cushions etc.

Davy


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## blights (Oct 27, 2017)

bigross255 said:


> thank you, i can fill the tanks and have everything running to keep the cold away no problem, i just dont know what would be "the right way" if there is such a thing, the battery charger is the one built in to the Sargent PSU (i am sure its the EC200) and has a switch to have the charger on or off?



I leave mine on hookup and do as Hairydog does have a little thermostat heater in there to keep it toasty I also use a trickle charger to keep the cab battery topped up even though I have a solar and its on hook up I was put out of action last year for around 3 months the cab battery will go flat the computer etc will drain it I use this one it plugs into the eobd socket or you can alligator clip it remember to unplug before starting the vehicle if you do get one my cab battery stays fully topped up with this no matter what the weather
AA Solar-Powered Car Battery Charger: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike
Failing all this info the king people on here have given you  go find a nice spot in the wind and rain now and again over the weekend through the winter park up listen to the rain hit the roof and use the bits in there much better than a trickle charger and thermostat heater lol


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## Obanboy666 (Oct 27, 2017)

hairydog said:


> For crying out loud, I said read the manual. How could you disagree with that?
> The Truma manual specifically says it is fine to use it with no water in it. And I have also confirmed that by asking the Truma technician, face to face in their workshop.
> If you think you know better, you are simply incorrect.



Correct, it works on my Truma combi 4e.
On my cp classic rotary control panel position D in the manual states heating and hot water mode. ( heating without temperature monitoring or with drained water system. 
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1305431/Truma-Cp-Classic.html?page=3#manual
So if anyone finds their dump valve has opened when they go to fill up their water tanks and boiler and it won’t reset just turn the combi on in position D, once the ambient temp in motorhome has lifted the dump valve will reset.
It works, I’ve used it last winter one morning.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Oct 27, 2017)

Are you confusing a water heater with a combined water heater/ heater

Alf




***** said:


> OK, it seems I am wrong! I can understand how it will do no damage it used just for heating, but what about the water heating element heating up without water. Is it the same element used for the habitation heating.
> 
> 
> I have also read that some electric versions cannot be used empty!
> ...


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## Martin P (Oct 27, 2017)

Our motorhome stays on hookup all year round . It has a 3 stage charger so maintains the batts with a float charge. We  empty the tanks at the end of each trip. During cold spells we keep an oil filled heater running on a medium heat. If frost is expected i empty the water tank, turn off the pump then disconnect the shower head , open all the taps then blow any remaining water out of the system. (I do go a bit blue in the face). A compressor would help here. Also we leave our fridge running on 240 but after having to replace 2 heater elements I only leave it on low. 
Works for us


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## Mick H (Oct 28, 2017)

Martin P said:


> Our motorhome stays on hookup all year round . It has a 3 stage charger so maintains the batts with a float charge. We  empty the tanks at the end of each trip. During cold spells we keep an oil filled heater running on a medium heat. If frost is expected i empty the water tank, turn off the pump then disconnect the shower head , open all the taps then blow any remaining water out of the system. (I do go a bit blue in the face). A compressor would help here. Also we leave our fridge running on 240 but after having to replace 2 heater elements I only leave it on low.
> Works for us



Permanent connection to EHU in storage can be bad for a Habitation battery?

This is worth reading.


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## Martin P (Oct 28, 2017)

We have had present motorhome for 7 years. Changed domestic batterys after 4 years and have had current pair for 3 years. Calira charger and pair of 95 amp domestics. Perfectly happy with this. Seems a fair exchange to be able to plug and forget. Have had no other issues.


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## Martin P (Oct 28, 2017)

Mick H said:


> Permanent connection to EHU in storage can be bad for a Habitation battery?
> 
> This is worth reading.



Ok so maybe my way of doing things may not get the absolute longest performance from my batts but to be honest I am happy with the life they give and I like the easy life side of plugging the thing in we get home and forgetting it. I can budget for a new set of batts every 4 years and they are lasting that long. It is true that they dont have to work that hard as we dont usually stay very long in one place . Maybe a 3 day festival might be the hardest they have to work. Led lights and no telly means we dont strain them that much anyway. 
As far as cost goes motorhomes are not cheap anyway, tyres cambelts brakes etc all add up so the cost of batts is a pretty small percentage
Each to their own
As far as I am aware its discharging below 50% that causes the real damage


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## Caz (Oct 28, 2017)

Minisorella said:


> ................... I used to use moisture traps with gel crystals to protect the fabrics and furnishings but I tipped one over by accident once in the overhead bed area... if you've ever tried to clear up that invisible sticky oily-feeling mess, then you'll know why I won't touch them now! .................. View attachment 59176



When we had our first caravans, back in the 90s, I was told by other caravanners to use these over winter as we tended not to go away from October half term through to Easter as we had no heating. Then one overflowed, all over the carpet, and rotted a big hole in the carpet. I hadn't realised how corrosive that sticky stuff is! I stopped using them and surprise surprise the van was no more damp than it had been when I used them. So I thought about it - caravans (and motorhomes, of course) have ventilation built in - so all the moisture traps are doing is taking moisture out of the air in the van, which is then being replaced by moist air from outside - so they aren't going to help at all.



hairydog said:


> Bottled water contains endocrine-disrupting phenols as well as being an environmental disaster. If your water tank is not clean enough to drink out of, sort that problem out.



I think that by "bottled water" what Jeff meant was water from home in a bottle, that's what I do anyway. Even in summer I carry bottles of water for the dog as his bowl doesn't fit under the tap in the van.


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## Donk (Oct 28, 2017)

I use a Ctec Smart Charge for the battery that keeps an eye on the battery and puts a float charge into it whenever it needs it.

Just fit & Forget


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## Caz (Oct 29, 2017)

That's the sort of dog bowl I have, he likes a drink whilst we are on the move. :dog:

However, my little van has a very small sink.


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## Mick H (Oct 29, 2017)

Martin P said:


> Each to their own
> As far as I am aware its discharging below 50% that causes the real damage



I quite agree, but one issue that often occurs, is the steady reduction in battery storage capacity. 

Charlie referred to this, in his post, but, without wishing to upset him, my pair of Elecsol batteries leisure, lasted 10yrs and 11yrs, respectively.
This did include not having the same "As New" capacity, but they were still perfectly servicable, into their old age.
When new, they would last for 5/7 days, on our normal usage, but this reduced to around 3 days, before they became unservicable.

The starter battery failed completely, in France, this year. It was my own fault, since I knew that it wasn't holding it's charge, requiring more frequent charging, over the last year, but it surprise me, in that it still started the engine, with no issues, until the morning that it suddenly didn't.
It was the original battery, though, and was 12yrs old.
In all my years of experience, I have never before, had this happen so suddenly, but then again, I haven't owned a vehicle for this long, without replacing the starter battery.


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