# Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 Sec77



## mlp666 (Apr 30, 2009)

Hi all,

Just got back to my van parked in Brighton to find a note on the window:

This Directed me to leave the said land "Street Name, Bourgh" with my Vehicle and any property! And not to come back for 3 months, or risk a fine!

My question is how can I avoid this happening again? and 

Am i safe if I move to another road in the bourgh?

To be fair I had parked there for 5 days, so I guess moving about more might make me a more difficult target!


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## runnach (Apr 30, 2009)

Not too familiar with the CJ and POA act you quote. 

Who left the note council or the Police 

If it is the latter, consider that if they are of the opinion you are aggrevating the locals every chance your van can be seized under s135 of the road traffic act 

Channa.

Listen Buddy I understand monies tight etc and you possibly havent taken the Mickey ...But I can assure you pretty much that if youdropped glass it would break. Very lucky not to have got a s135 ....at least £250 in these parts to retrieve a vehicle before answering to the local mags ...be careful 

Channa


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## tresrikay (Apr 30, 2009)

mlp666 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Just got back to my van parked in Brighton to find a note on the window:
> 
> ...



I am of the opinion that 5 days in one place is just asking for trouble, gets the locals backs up and is not in the spirit of the wildcamping advocated here.


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## Jacques le foot (Apr 30, 2009)

Channa,....why on earth were you there for 5 days??? This is not what wild camping is about!!! This is what tinkers do..they just park up and live for free on any available plot, to the annoyance and disregard for the local, council-tax paying residents. Sorry!, but I've got no sympathy for your plight.
 Jackie


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## Jacques le foot (Apr 30, 2009)

Whoops!! sorry channa, just realised my last message should have been directed to mlp666..not you!..please forgive my mistake. 
 Jackie


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## mlp666 (Apr 30, 2009)

tresrikay said:


> I am of the opinion that 5 days in one place is just asking for trouble, gets the locals backs up and is not in the spirit of the wildcamping advocated here.



I'm new to this and didn't intend any agro! and wasn't aware that this was against the ethics of this site. Maybe these should be poasted to new sign up's.

I was parked along side a park, not in front of  anybody's house. I didnt cause any noise nucence. As there were 4 other campers parked there (still parked there) i presumed it was cool.

My question is will the section 77 apply only to the street named or the whole bourgh?

I am a stained glass artist and have just landed a position in Hove and don't have the cash to get a flat yet, if ever! The gauling thing is that this came from Brightons Enviroment agency... I'm curently restoring the windows in the oldest building in the town...


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## Jacques le foot (Apr 30, 2009)

mlp666,
  As sympathetic as I am to your plight, (been seriously hard up myself in the past) if you are working in the area, could you not find £5 ish a night for a CL site close to where you are working, and then you are legit, and paying your dues..and not free-loading?
  Your time off then 'wild camping' would be all the sweeter!!
Jackie


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## tresrikay (Apr 30, 2009)

mlp666 said:


> I'm new to this and didn't intend any agro! and wasn't aware that this was against the ethics of this site. Maybe these should be poasted to new sign up's.
> 
> I was parked along side a park, not in front of  anybody's house. I didnt cause any noise nucence. As there were 4 other campers parked there (still parked there) i presumed it was cool.
> 
> ...


 If we can offer advice to the newer members then that is what we are here for.
Your plight is acknowledged and By your reply I can tell you are as devastated about your situation.

My suggested actions in your predicament would be to move around often, not congregate with other M/Hs as this gives the authorities the chance to use new age traveller legislation against you.
Keep clear of housing areas, as this antagonises curtain twitchers. Further more if you are working on a building , then ask if you can park up in the car park overnight , offer a small fee to them or seek their advice on a place that would be suitable. You are in the wrong town to wildcamp in one place.


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## mlp666 (Apr 30, 2009)

Jacques le foot said:


> mlp666,
> As sympathetic as I am to your plight, (been seriously hard up myself in the past) if you are working in the area, could you not find £5 ish a night for a CL site close to where you are working, and then you are legit, and paying your dues..and not free-loading?
> Your time off then 'wild camping' would be all the sweeter!!
> Jackie



As it happend no i didn't have £5... 

CL site? I would be happy now i have the cash to pay for a site as long as it was accesable to my place of work.

If you can let me know of these CS you mention, i'd appreciate it.

Mark


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## PaulC (Apr 30, 2009)

Just my my thought, but I think I read somewhere that if there is less then 6 vehicles there has to be a court order ordering your removal, or is this what you got?


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## runnach (Apr 30, 2009)

mlp666 said:


> As it happend no i didn't have £5...
> 
> CL site? I would be happy now i have the cash to pay for a site as long as it was accesable to my place of work.
> 
> ...



I tried to answer your post and having probs for some reason???...

But what i wanted to say is that you have had a bit of a break !!!..In other parts of the country your van would be seized under section 135 of the RTA ..I twould cost on average £200 to get it back and that is BEFORE  you have had a chat with the local magistrates..!!

Seriously be very careful.

Channa


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## oldiebutgoodie (May 1, 2009)

channa said:


> In other parts of the country your van would be seized under section 135 of the RTA
> Channa



I am intrigued in your quotation of section 135 of the RTA:

Power to prescribe form of certificate of registration, etc. 	
        135.—(1) Regulations may prescribe all or any of the following— 
 (a) a form of certificate for issue to persons whose names are in the register as evidence of their names' being in the register,
 (b) a form of badge for use by such persons, and
 (c) an official title for such use.
    (2) If a person whose name is not in the register— 
 (a) takes or uses a title prescribed under this section, or
 (b) wears or displays a badge or certificate so prescribed, or
 (c) takes or uses any name, title, addition or description implying that his name is in the register,
he is guilty of an offence unless he proves that he did not know, and had no reasonable cause to believe, that his name was not in the register at the material time.

    (3) If a person carrying on business in the provision of instruction in the driving of motor vehicles— 
 (a) uses a title or description so prescribed in relation to any person employed by him whose name is not in the register, or
 (b) issues any advertisement or invitation calculated to mislead with respect to the extent to which persons whose names are in the register are employed by him,
he is guilty of an offence unless he proves that he did not know, and had no reasonable cause to believe, that the name or names in question were not in the register at the material time.
What relevance has driving instructors certificates etc. to the point in question?
Are we talking UK law here?


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## cipro (May 1, 2009)

So I take it that you are a full timer and bordering no income, and on your own but don't class yourself as a new age traveler.
I am wondering how you eat at night 
pay for gas 
fuel
all the other running cost of a motor home sorry if it seems a bit close 
to home if you now what I mean


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## runnach (May 1, 2009)

cipro said:


> So I take it that you are a full timer and bordering no income, and on your own but don't class yourself as a new age traveler.
> I am wondering how you eat at night
> pay for gas
> fuel
> ...



I am slightly bemused to whom you are directing your post ?

I am full time and has for my finances every penny has been earned tax paid etc.

The fact I choose not to pay in excess of £20000 per annum in taxes has I have done in the past is with respect my business, has is my choice to use equity from an ex marital home to fund my lifestyle.

I guarantee I have not cost the taxpayer a penny in the last 12 months. Although we could have a conversation in respect of immigrants who seem entitled to everything. It doesnt pay to be indigineous ?

Of course our society has freeloaders but I can assure you I am not one of them..

Channa


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## barryd (May 1, 2009)

Sounds to me like your a decent chap trying to scratch a living doing something worthwhile in the local community.  What gets me so angry is that you end up in trouble after 5 days but every flipping year our lovely part of the North Yorkshire dales has gypsies that come and park on village greens and verges on their way to and from Appleby horse fair and they stay for weeks leaving their S..t and stuff when they leave so the council ends up putting toilets out for them that I flipping well have to pay for with my outrageously high council task!!!!!! AGHHHHH!.  They will pick on you because they think they will be able to intimidate you and you wont know all the tricks the Gypos do.  Sorry this happened to you.  I would tend to just move around a bit and to be honest I would avoid places where there are lots of other vans.  CL's Certified Locations and CS Certified Sites are run by the Caravan Club and Caravan and Camping Club and are basically small basic sites in fields, farms or pub car parks with varying facilities from nothing, just a field to showers and electric hook up.  Officially they are only supposed to take 5 vans.  They are quite a nice option and range in price from about £5 per night to £12.  Your supposed to join either organisation to use them which is around £35 per year.  I would keep wilding but just be discrete and move around every couple of days.  At least your battery will get charged!

Dont let the B.....ds grind you down!!!!!

Cheers
Barry


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## runnach (May 1, 2009)

I am slightly bemused to whom you are directing your post ?

I am full time and has for my finances every penny has been earned tax paid etc.

The fact I choose not to pay in excess of £20000 per annum in taxes has I have done in the past is with respect my business, has is my choice to use equity from an ex marital home to fund my lifestyle.

I guarantee I have not cost the taxpayer a penny in the last 12 months. Although we could have a conversation in respect of immigrants who seem entitled to everything. It doesnt pay to be indigineous ?

Of course our society has freeloaders but I can assure you I am not one of them..


Back on topic, in respect of s135 it will teach me to post in the early hours. I was of course referring too s165a of the rta and assumptions on my part.

The fact that the OP can satisfy S165 ? and deflect a GV9 ...I was mistaken and referring to the Section 59 police reform act 2002  apologies
Channa


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## cipro (May 1, 2009)

Not aimed at you channe and cannot fault fulltime wilding. do it myself if had the money and and a bit of nerve to break the mold if you now what I mean. If anyone can live free without the stain on others all causing a problem good luck, I hate paying taxes on top of taxes on so on blah, blah etc but until you break from the norm we have too 
But you wont get a argument about politics because there is never a straight answer 
Good luck with your wilding the cheaper the better


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## runnach (May 1, 2009)

cipro said:


> But you wont get a argument about politics because there is never a straight answer



Heavens above, I wouldnt argue politics. My opinions on this one are best kept to myself.

I have a slight irritation re my tone that a lot of people think because I choose to live the way I do, They are paying for it !! ...well short of the truth.

Blanket labelling is the easy option to a lot of folk 

Channa


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## cipro (May 1, 2009)

channa said:


> Heavens above, I wouldnt argue politics. My opinions on this one are best kept to myself.
> 
> I have a slight irritation re my tone that a lot of people think because I choose to live the way I do, They are paying for it !! ...well short of the truth.
> 
> ...


 
Opps looks like I have touch a nerve on Free living nothing wrong with it,
We all pay our way some pay more than others.
You said you have left the rat race, thats great so if I was in your position then I would be chilling every day unless full time wild camping 
is not as lay ed back as I thought


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## runnach (May 1, 2009)

cipro said:


> Opps looks like I have touch a nerve on Free living nothing wrong with it,
> We all pay our way some pay more than others.
> You said you have left the rat race, thats great so if I was in your position then I would be chilling every day unless full time wild camping
> is not as lay ed back as I thought




No nerves touched I assure you, And despite the romanticisms, the books still have to balance.

You also quickly reach a stage that ownership of Bricks and mortar become out of reach. There are strings attached to whatever lifestyle we choose it seems 

Channa


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## barryd (May 1, 2009)

Its a funny old world we live in.  I would like to meet some of you full timers as I am sooooo very close to becoming one, its just persuading the wife!  Its amazing how people might assume because you swan around in a van and dont work your a freeloader or a bit of a gypo but if you swan around the med in a yacht or a motor cruiser (lets say both cost around £50K and I have now owned one of each) then your probably a rock star or Duncan Banatyne and everyone wants to know you.  Personally I cant wait to be in the Alps when its too hot to be in the Med and in the Med when its cooled down and everyone has gone home and I wont care a jot what anyone thinks about me!


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## runnach (May 1, 2009)

Your post echos my spirit and thoughts more than you will ever know.

It is amazing who you meet on your travels too.

Session musicians, and one chap who I found wandering about the mountains.

Turned out he was writing a software programme that tracked ones movements so you could pinpoint things of interest and then work out how far you had walked.

A retired decorator, who was a cycling fanatic. He had followed the tour of Italy and was preparing himself for the tour de France. He would cycle the stages and time himself 50 miles a day  

Late 50's and a bike that didnt look much anti theft tactic it turned out...but always had a wry smile when he beat the young ones on the latest must have steed.

Perhaps it is our propensity to support so called underdogs but a true experience 

Channa


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## noody (May 2, 2009)

There always is going to be a fine-line between wild-camping (Not camping on organised sites) and traveling free-loaders.

My very first wild-camping experience was in the north of Scotland at a lovely little beach. We parked-up and enjoyed the peace, eat a little food, had a couple of drinks and soaked-up the scenery. Then, to relaxed to move and seeing no-reason to move I just continued to relax until it was morning.

The lady staring at us, hands on hips, glaring but staying her distance, said nothing.

We walked a little down a lane around the headland and couldn't believe the sight we saw in such a lovely spot. A very old converted commercial vehicle was parked-up and looked as if it hadn't been moved for months, in-fact, quite possibly, it was unable to move. Inside were 5 dogs but no people, outside the van were boxes of rubbish various other containers, the remnants of camp-fires, litter trapped amongst the gorse and heather, tin-cans, bottles and an unhealthy smell.

We were wild-campers judging wild-campers and though there was huge difference in our reasons for being there and the way in which we conducted ourselves its probable that the public and authorities view us similarly.

Wild-camping and living in a van full-time are different, even so, the latter can be conducted in an acceptable manner. Wild-camping is discouraged or banned in most EU countries other than, "Staying overnight, for one night to restore driving ability" even then there are regional variations and in some countries you are not allowed to even sleep on private land by agreement.

The above information is part of 2 pages  titled, "Sleeping in the motorhome away from camping areas" from the Burstner handbook.

My view is that, "staying overnight to restore driving ability" is as much as is needed to allow flexibility. If someone knocked at my door and asked to stay-overnight because they couldn't find a suitable place and were tired I would probably even feed them, certainly fix them with water grey and black dumping even hook-up but if someone parked-up and stayed without asking and making a reasonable excuse I'd ask them to leave and call the police if they didn't.

Richard.


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## Yogihughes (May 2, 2009)

If the OP was restoring one of the oldest buildings in the town then couldn't he have been allowed to park his van in one of the local council car parks.
I mean the one where the council parked their wagons overnight.


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## sasquatch (May 2, 2009)

New Rover said:


> If the OP was restoring one of the oldest buildings in the town then couldn't he have been allowed to park his van in one of the local council car parks.
> I mean the one where the council parked their wagons overnight.


Or even on or near the work site he/she could claim it was their site office/workshop.
My own vehicle is a brand new AutoTrail and when I bring it out of storage to my house inorder to ready it for a trip,I am always met with the comments "how long is it going t o be there?" It is a nice vehicle to look at not a converted commercial box van or similar.
Yet in th old days I had more fun in one like that.


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## mlp666 (May 2, 2009)

sasquatch said:


> Or even on or near the work site he/she could claim it was their site office/workshop.
> My own vehicle is a brand new AutoTrail and when I bring it out of storage to my house inorder to ready it for a trip,I am always met with the comments "how long is it going t o be there?" It is a nice vehicle to look at not a converted commercial box van or similar.
> Yet in th old days I had more fun in one like that.



Thanks all for an intresting debate,

I'm making there windows but it is for a firm based in Hove with no off st p but do pay arking 

The reason I had no cash was i put it all in Eric's tank to get me to Brighton!

The debate about travelers and full time wildcampers has got to be about how you conduct yourself... I do full time wildcamp but also work from my van when i put my actionscript coder head on. No I don't pay poll tax! but do pay road tax, income tax, ni and vat... As a single male i put next to no draw on a local authoity, waste & rubbish being the main elemrnts i can think of! But the waste bines would have to be emptied weather  or not i put in a bag and the same goes for toilets.
I tend to eat in pubs and local restrants (who all pay CT) and spend in the local shops, weighing it all up I make no hit on a councle's budget.

Mark


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## mlp666 (May 2, 2009)

Sorry my laptop threw a wobbly

>> I'm making there windows but it is for a firm based in Hove with no off st p but do pay arking  <<

Should have been I'm making there windows but it is for a firm based in Hove with no off st parking


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## mlp666 (May 2, 2009)

New Rover said:


> If the OP was restoring one of the oldest buildings in the town then couldn't he have been allowed to park his van in one of the local council car parks.
> I mean the one where the council parked their wagons overnight.



Unfortunatly it's not directly for the council, but a local firm who had been advertising for tradesmen for over 6 months and were almost about to give up the contract because of the lack of qualified staff. I also got a second sheet from the Traveller Liaision team (gota love that title) but have had no response! Probably coz of the bank holls! But I won't hold my breath...

An intresting and little known fact is that in Medievel times all stained glass artists were itinerate and moved from job to job (it helps to increase the overall skill level), as did a lot of craftsmen at that time, hense the term "jounyman". So what was good enough for York Minster, Durham Cathedral (both glazed by french craftsmen) and representing some of the finest art of the period,  isn't good enough for Brighton and Hove DC.

There's nothing "new age" about what i'm doing... It's as old as my craft!

M


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## PaulC (May 2, 2009)

I thought that it was journeyman because it was "jour", french for day and got corrupted!


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## n8rbos (May 3, 2009)

mlp666 said:


> Unfortunatly it's not directly for the council, but a local firm who had been advertising for tradesmen for over 6 months and were almost about to give up the contract because of the lack of qualified staff. I also got a second sheet from the Traveller Liaision team (gota love that title) but have had no response! Probably coz of the bank holls! But I won't hold my breath...
> 
> An intresting and little known fact is that in Medievel times all stained glass artists were itinerate and moved from job to job (it helps to increase the overall skill level), as did a lot of craftsmen at that time, hense the term "jounyman". So what was good enough for York Minster, Durham Cathedral (both glazed by french craftsmen) and representing some of the finest art of the period,  isn't good enough for Brighton and Hove DC.
> 
> ...



mark, do what you do, enjoy it, but move around a bit (even 1/2 mile)theres too many busy bodies about nowadays!unless you cause a nuisance or draw attention to yourself i can't see any reason why a ticket put on you van would stand in any other part of where you am!


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## runnach (May 3, 2009)

I find your interest in glass work interesting. A few years ago I required a bit of floated leaded glass in a cabinet after a break in. The chap who assisted me just happened to be in Doncaster and is a master craftsmen in ecclesiastical glass. (indeed helped restore the rose window at York after the fire )But a rare breed of craftsman 

My surname is Chance, which in glass works may mean something to you (albeit I am on the poor side of the dynasty) But my distant relatives amongst there commercial successes glazed the houses of Parliament including Big Ben ( st stephens tower I believe to be correct ) Crystal Palace for the 1851 exhibition and pretty much had the lighthouse market sown up.

It seems having done a bit of research there is a collectors market for my families wares not that I will benefit ( teach me to be born on a saturday)

I am an artist too, and I truly hope that my comments re your original post are taken in the spirit I intended.

Good luck 

Channa


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## Red Fox (May 6, 2009)

It would be really nice if the people who insist on calling the Romanii people "gypos" desisted. It is a term that is not welcomed. I have 2 friends who have been full time travellers for many years, one of whom is self employed and has wild camped since '86. For a period of time this person was horse drawn although not being Rom himself. There are many different kinds of people "living on the verge" just as there are in sedentary society and i would suggest that very many of these people have a deep respect and love for the land in which they travel. Because Thatcher/Major repealed the Caravan Sites Act whereby local authorities are no longer required to provide sites and because most of the traditional stopping places have been fenced, barricaded,stolen and otherwise blocked where exactly are these travelling people supposed to stop? If members on here are really serious about wild camping i would humbly suggest that they get to know the history of the nomadic way of life in these islands-it may well surprise you. The so called new age traveller movement in the '80,s  was very idealistic in finding a new-old way to live and reclaim some of the rights that have been sytematically eroded over time. There may well come a day where it is totally illegal to park up and sleep overnight anywhere at all except an authorised site and whether we like it or no, this puts us in the same camp as the genuine Rom and also the largely unnoticed now, new travellers. The 80,s saw the influx of the "brew crew" into the new traveller movement which all but destroyed its high ideals. Not all travellers and not all Rom are dirty, thieving outlaws just as not all sedentary peoples are. Bad eggs and all that.......Yes, some on here have seen awful park ups with rubbish around and being someone who drives 65K a year as a job i see some pretty unsavoury estates, gardens, industrial watelands etc. Please dont label all these people prejudicially just because youve seen some bad examples. Many of the low key travellers have to suffer the vigilanteism of the scumbags from the nearest town who think its a laugh to brick a windscreen or petrol bomb a van-and this is more likely to happen in rural areas too. Sorry this is a long post but i mean no disresect to any on here its just that assumptions are too readily made about people who wish to live the way perhaps many on here would wish to live. Nice site this by the way For  full timers on here it may be worth checking out the "Friends,Families and Travellers" website ( cant find web address at mo)-theres a link on there to the Travellers Law Society which is focused on all travelling legal matters.


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## Red Fox (May 6, 2009)

The FFT site is Friends, Families and Travellers


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## derekfaeberwick (May 9, 2009)

Don't think the term is meant to be welcomed. Daresay there are some good ones but as sure as a cat's a hairy beast there's a heck of a lot of bad uns.


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## barryd (May 9, 2009)

derekfaeberwick said:


> Don't think the term is meant to be welcomed. Daresay there are some good ones but as sure as a cat's a hairy beast there's a heck of a lot of bad uns.



Your dead right.  Sorry if I am not very PC but "these people" come here every year on the way too and from Appleby Horse fair and they cause so much trouble it’s unbelievable.  They pour S..t in the rivers, leave rubbish all over and just feel they can turf up and stay on greens right outside peoples houses.  I have a friend who is also a Romany Gypsy, granted he lives in a house in Appleby. He actually told me that he and many others leave town when the fair is on!

I am sure there are some Gypsies that are not like that but people’s ideas of a charming little man in a traditional caravan towed by a horse is not the reality.  I speak as I find im afraid.


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## runnach (May 9, 2009)

Itinerants v gypsies ...I think is the issue 

I am a full timer in a motorhome I own no bricks and mortar ...So I guess closer to the romany lifestyle than 'gorga' 

Itinerant or Gypsy ...or something else ?  If my lifestyle needs a label !!

So what am I ? I have shown nothing less than respect whilst I have been here.?

So what am I ? 

Channa


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## ajs (May 10, 2009)

channa said:


> So what am I ?
> 
> Channa


 


_.......get thee behind me satan_ ....

 regards
aj


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## Yogihughes (May 10, 2009)

Going by your surname, I would say "yer a Chancer"!

No offence jist a wee joke.

By the way my brother started his working life in CHANCE Brothers Glass Factory in Glasgow in 1951.
On e of your family's factories, by any chance. (No pun intended).


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## runnach (May 10, 2009)

New Rover said:


> Going by your surname, I would say "yer a Chancer"!
> 
> No offence jist a wee joke.
> 
> ...



No offence taken. Yes the Glasgow factory was part of the dynasty.

The main factory was at Smethwick in Birmingham 

I cant recall what was produced in Glasgow there, the product portfolio over the years ranged from glassware, spectacle glass. and lighthouse reflectors and mechanisms ...

Channa


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## ajs (May 10, 2009)

channa said:


> The main factory was at Smethwick in Birmingham
> 
> Channa


 

... been in there ... years and years ago mind...about 1976-7 ish 


so... which chance are you then.... i remember portraits on the wall in reception.... were you the middle 1  

_probably not... more likely the last chance_

 regards
aj


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## runnach (May 10, 2009)

ajs said:


> ... been in there ... years and years ago mind...about 1976-7 ish
> 
> 
> so... which chance are you then.... i remember portraits on the wall in reception.... were you the middle 1
> ...



More like No Chance !!! the family tie in is a long way back, So for that Concorde motorhome I took a shine too, There will be no inheritance.
Fine Chance.

Chance would be a fine thing !!!

errm Channa


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## Yogihughes (May 10, 2009)

Thought so.
Factory long gone now but some of the land is being used to house University students.
Site:- Murano Street and Bilsland Drive. Glasgow


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## Red Fox (May 10, 2009)

barryd said:


> Your dead right.  Sorry if I am not very PC but "these people" come here every year on the way too and from Appleby Horse fair and they cause so much trouble it’s unbelievable.  They pour S..t in the rivers, leave rubbish all over and just feel they can turf up and stay on greens right outside peoples houses.  I have a friend who is also a Romany Gypsy, granted he lives in a house in Appleby. He actually told me that he and many others leave town when the fair is on!
> 
> I am sure there are some Gypsies that are not like that but people’s ideas of a charming little man in a traditional caravan towed by a horse is not the reality.  I speak as I find im afraid.


Yeah, me too; speak as i find that is. I guess its ok to S**t in your house and put that into the rivers or sea then? Oh, and bin your rubbish and get it carried away clinically to a "landfill". Sweeping things under the carpet comes to mind. Maybe the "greens" outside peoples houses were once common land before it was nicked? Plenty of horsedrawn folk still about, especially in the west/south west.


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## runnach (May 10, 2009)

Red Fox said:


> Yeah, me too; speak as i find that is. I guess its ok to S**t in your house and put that into the rivers or sea then? Oh, and bin your rubbish and get it carried away clinically to a "landfill". Sweeping things under the carpet comes to mind. Maybe the "greens" outside peoples houses were once common land before it was nicked? Plenty of horsedrawn folk still about, especially in the west/south west.



 A considered reply, until common land nicked.??? sorry you lost me there. 

Horse drawn folk aside, they rightfully choose that lifestyle ( and good for them) But with every lifestyle, view choice , there has always been and always will peeps that dont understand and question.

Best thing is to not give a toss, and excercise your energy more efficiently?

My thoughts 

Channa


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## PaulC (May 10, 2009)

Red Fox said:


> Maybe the "greens" outside peoples houses were once common land before it was nicked? Plenty of horsedrawn folk still about, especially in the west/south west.



Well common land was only for local people who had right to graze and collect firewood from and as far as I am aware.


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## barryd (May 11, 2009)

Red Fox said:


> Yeah, me too; speak as i find that is. I guess its ok to S**t in your house and put that into the rivers or sea then? Oh, and bin your rubbish and get it carried away clinically to a "landfill". Sweeping things under the carpet comes to mind. Maybe the "greens" outside peoples houses were once common land before it was nicked? Plenty of horsedrawn folk still about, especially in the west/south west.



Kids play in the rivers where they dump there S..t.  Im pretty sure our waste doesn’t end up there, plus I pay £2K+ council tax to live here, what do they pay?  The crime rate goes from next to zero to off the scale when then are here.  The houses in our neighboring village where they always descend are worth in excess of £500K.  If you had paid that much for your house would you want them outside for weeks on end?  Would you wild camp on such a village green outside someone’s house?  Im pretty sure I wouldn’t and if I did I am sure there wouldn’t be a single member on this site that would endorse it as a wild camping spot.  How do they get away with it?


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## runnach (May 11, 2009)

barryd said:


> .  How do they get away with it?



Simple, Politicians who appease and capitulate in the name of political correctness.

The Irony of course is we via the vote put them there.!!

But stop for a moment and think rational...???

You pay your council taxes, Income tax on income etc, I guess insure your car and tax it as the law requires ?

So you are conforming, best you can under the rules and regs of the land, you are compliant !!!

It seems the modern day approach to addressing non conformists..is the farcical approach of 'transient group' workshops and ethnic / socially excluded workshops. 

All dreamed up I might add in the main by people who have jacksquat life experience...I.e school university local government...experience ...no real life experience ( except perhaps one saturday a week for beer money at Mc donalds)  

The true gypsys, FWIW I have no problem with, their lifestyle doesnt impinge on anyone. But the itinerants who are labelled as Gypsys are frankly using oxygen that should quite frankly be denied. A set of lying thieving and cheating barstewards.

It seems we are far more focussed on addressing the needs of 'minorities' who ever fall into that hat ...rather than catering for the needs of the 
majority that are paying theor way and I agree it is plain wrong.

Channa

P.s There are one or two of you out there shocked I think...labelled me as a PC  basher ...learn !!!..books and covers !!


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## goody2shoes (May 12, 2009)

im surprised that wild camping is frowned upon if wild camping for long periods of time.the whole idea of touring round britain is to get away from it all and what better way than finding a secluded spot and staying for a few days.these days i dont work since retiring and currently living off my savings,the people who moan because of the taxes they have to lay out,well didnt you know the hole you was digging yourself when you decided to plug into this so called free market society.to the op firstly parking next to other vans isnt advisable,it just attracts attention,particularly in happening and pc brighton,funny by what you see on tv brighton comes over as a forward thinking and tolerant town,seems its just an old net twitching dump akin to ramsgate.as far as getting your van towed off after 5 days im not too sure if that is legal i could be wrong though.the council would be making you homeless and therefore would be putting themselves in the position of having to rehouse you.that may be worth bearing in mind if it did come on top...good luck...


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