# refillable gas recommendations



## caplee (Jan 6, 2016)

Hi everyone, 

Very new to the forums. Plodding my way through the threads and already learnt lots of new things. All good stuff as we have never wild camped before.

Mike and I have previously talked about changing to a refillable gas system rather than relying on gas bottles and was wondering what recommendations you have.  I will also keep searching through the threads for advice as I expect the same question has been asked umpteen times.

Thank you

Leanne


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## molly 2 (Jan 6, 2016)

Gas it is the cheapest,  allso members discount , I use 6 kg bottle,  usually about £6 to fill ,Calor £20--22 about £150 for 6 kg in locker fill kit .very easy fit .make's our blown air heating  cheap to run .you can download an app called fillpg that shows lpg stations ,also downloads to sat nav poi  giving directions.


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## ozzy1955 (Jan 6, 2016)

*refillables*

Hi caplee,
I had a Gaslow system fitted to my van as my last 2 vans had refillable systems, this time I had a 11Kg refill and had an adaptor so I can use a standard bottle for my portable bbq, also if I did not notice my fixed bottle had run out I can just couple up the spare.
Having an underslung tank does give you more storage as you free up your gas locker, iv'e had both systems would not be without refillable, also cheaper. :cheers:


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## Roger Haworth (Jan 6, 2016)

I have used a Gaslow 2 cylinder system for over 7 years and it has worked very well: http: http://www.gaslowdirect.com/

It was very easy to install in the existing gas locker - I did it myself and I am far from handy!

The only drawback is that the filler is inside the gas locker so in the case of my van I have to open the back doors and then the gas locker door to access the filler point. It would be much better to have the filler point mounted on the outside of the vehicle which might not be a do it yourself job and would probably involve drilling a large hole in the side of the vehicle.

Pumps dispensing LPG are generally quite easy to find all over Europe try: myLPG.eu - LPG in Europe The standard Gaslow filler fits pumps in UK, Belgium and Netherlands. Gaslow supply separate screw on adapters for 1. France/Italy 2. Germany and 3. Spain. One of the four fittings has always worked where ever I have been in Europe.

If I was buying a new van now I would go for a factory fitted underslung LPG tank which would of course have a filler on the exterior of the vehicle. 

Best of luck with your wild camping plans - you'll enjoy it!


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## Bazbro (Jan 6, 2016)

Ask away, Leanne - it's only by asking that you'll gain the understanding of all the little tricks.  Everyone here will help all they can.

I have always wanted a built-in gas tank - a large 'drum', fitted underneath the vehicle that is refillable with gas from a pump (at a filling station/garage, for instance, though the pumps are available elsewhere - some councils have them, plus factory estates, etc).  Maps are available to show you where these filling stations are, plus 'phone apps too.  I've never got round to stumping up the money (£500 or so) to have one fitted but they really are the answer, carrying much more gas and in a better position, lower down under the vehicle.  These two companies specialise in fitting them so if you're interested, maybe contact them first?
Autogas Leisure 2000 Limited - Refillable Gas Solutions for Motorhomes 
or   
GAS IT Refillable gas bottles, refillable gas tank, vapour tanks and gas bottles, for caravans, by GAS IT, Alugas - GAS IT Leisure Gas - Catering, Motorhome, Caravan, Farrier and Road Repair Refillable Gas Solutions 

The second route is cheaper and has some other advantages/disadvantages, and that's the 'refillable gas bottle'.  They are most often supplied by people like   The Gaslow Centre Home Page   and from many camping/caravanning outlets.  The whole system is set up to be an easy DIY job but many dealers will do the job for you.

Advantages and disadvantages?  Under slung tanks carry the weight low down (good) and they are out of the way.  They free up the gas locker so it can be used to store other essential 'stuff' - the smaller the 'van, the more important that could be.  These tanks can also carry a lot more gas than you could otherwise, so giving you a longer time between fill-ups.  The disadvantages are that the whole vehicle has to go to where the gas is dispensed (inconvenient if you're esconced on a great spot and really don't want to move - you have to).  You could carry a small gas bottle to link into the gas line if this was a problem but it all starts to become a hassle then.  Also, when you sell the vehicle the tank would normally go with it.  You might get a slightly better price for the 'van but nowhere near what the tank cost to be fitted (unless you're lucky!).

The reverse is true with the refillable bottles - they occupy a gas locker, but could be taken away to be filled if really needed and they can stay with you when you sell the 'van.

Good luck!

Barry


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## vindiboy (Jan 6, 2016)

GAS by vindiboy1 | Photobucket  I fitted my own refillable system using GASIT Cylinders and fittings, very easy to do if you have good DIY skills .GASIT are a great company to deal with and most helpfull. I have 2 X 11KG Cylinders in my van and only run off of one of them, manually changing to the second bottle when the first empties, I also can still use bottle top regulators on my system to run the Barbie and Patio heater or any thing else I choose to use. Filling with gas is as simple as topping up your van with petrol or Diesel, I just top my bottles up when I get Diesel or when I see gas on sale, you do not need to wait till a bottle is empty as you can top up  a few litres of gas [ sold in litres] as and when or wait for a full fill, Gas is currently on sale here in Southampton at 57 pence a litre.You soon recoup the installation costs in gas price saving. The gauges  that come with the bottles are useless though.mine read empty when the  bottles are full but the gauges are only pennies so who cares hee hee.


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## Tezza33 (Jan 6, 2016)

All good advice so far, I have an underslung bulk tank, it frees up my gas locker so I can carry my generator and bbq in there and the original pipe with the regulator on was changed to a bbq point, 
Bazbro is correct that the whole vehicle has to go if you run out of gas but depending on the distance to the gas station you might have to drive there with refillables and unless you are on a site for a long time the situation doesn't come up because if I am travelling and see a gas station I top up even if I am over half full, that is the advantage of refillables either tanks or bottles you can top up when you see a station.

If you are likely to change vehicles in the next few years go for bottles from gas it, if you are keeping it for a lot longer think about an underslung tank, I fitted mine myself so if I change vehicles I will remove the tank and fit it on the next one


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## Teutone (Jan 6, 2016)

Another vote for Gas-it. Nick is one of the most helpful people I have ever dealt with.


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## caplee (Jan 6, 2016)

Thanks everyone.  Hubby quite keen on the underslung but I am being realistic and know this isn't our forever van (fixes bed next time) so prefer the bottles.  That said we need to keep Denise van Outing for at least five or six years yet due to work commitments and not being able to spend enough time in the van to warrant the cost of an upgrade. 


All food for thought. 

Leanne


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## Teutone (Jan 6, 2016)

caplee said:


> Thanks everyone.  Hubby quite keen on the underslung but I am being realistic and know this isn't our forever van (fixes bed next time) so prefer the bottles.  That said we need to keep Denise van Outing for at least five or six years yet due to work commitments and not being able to spend enough time in the van to warrant the cost of an upgrade.
> 
> 
> All food for thought.
> ...



look here for some information about the install please http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums...4-teutones-second-gas-install.html?highlight=

if you use the search function you will find other peoples postings with pictures


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 6, 2016)

One more thing to remember when choosing between bottles & a tank is that it can affect use of the channel tunnel.
See this link for more info.


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## caplee (Jan 6, 2016)

Sharon the Cat said:


> One more thing to remember when choosing between bottles & a tank is that it can affect use of the channel tunnel.
> See this link for more info.



I read that as vehicles powered by.... and that for cooking /heating equivalent to 99 litres can be carried? Only scanned the document so will look in closer detail before making a decision. Either way seems more cost effective than the exchangeable bottles we currently use x


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## Teutone (Jan 6, 2016)

caplee said:


> I read that as vehicles powered by.... and that for cooking /heating equivalent to 99 litres can be carried? Only scanned the document so will look in closer detail before making a decision. Either way seems more cost effective than the exchangeable bottles we currently use x



Eurotunnel is not a problem with gas bottles for cooking and heating. They will stop you and make sure they are turned off before boarding.


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## vindiboy (Jan 6, 2016)

caplee said:


> Thanks everyone.  Hubby quite keen on the underslung but I am being realistic and know this isn't our forever van (fixes bed next time) so prefer the bottles.  That said we need to keep Denise van Outing for at least five or six years yet due to work commitments and not being able to spend enough time in the van to warrant the cost of an upgrade.
> 
> 
> All food for thought.
> ...


  The good thing with refillable bottles is that if you change your van you can remove the refill system and bottles easily and refit them in your next vehicle, a blank is also available to cover the refill connection hole too.


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## campertwo (Jan 6, 2016)

Agree. I have 2 gazlow refillable bottles fitted into the gas locker which I installed myself. Best thing I did on our motorhome. Not cheap to install, but cheap to run & the convenience of getting gas while on the move at petrol stations here & abroad outweighs the cost in my opinion. I would advise an external filling point as some garages are a bit funny about direct fills into the locker?


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## angelaa (Jan 7, 2016)

We use safefill bottles.  You can see the level of gas in them, so when it gets low we fill it up.  Easy to transfer to another van as just like a normal bottle.  Brilliant.


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 7, 2016)

swiftcamper said:


> Only if the vehicle is lpg powered they will take vehicles with fixed tanks used for domestic purposes.



That's why I posted the link. Size matters...........................


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## BeyondTheVan (Jan 7, 2016)

I have fitted an underslung tank from GAS-IT.

I found GAS-IT very pleasant to deal with and very helpful. Their You-Tube Tech section is full of good information regarding how to fit their tanks, etc. After I placed my order, taking advantage of the forum members' discount, it arrived next day.

It took me a good day to fit the system as I had to make mountings under the Luton for the tank. But if you fit your own, you can easily remove it and fit it to your next motorhome. Fitting isn't hard and you only need basic tools such as spanners, sockets and a drill.

I have the fill point on the side of the van and it's so easy to roll up at the petrol station and fill up the LPG. I am also told that some places sell "leisure gas" which is LPG without road duty. I'll be on the lookout for one of those places soon!

Rich.


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## Teutone (Jan 7, 2016)

If I would have to do it again, I would fit a underslung tank. Yes a lot more work and more money but you free up the gas locker and use some unused space under the vehicle. Everytime I lie under the vehicle I get carried away with ideas of what to do with the empty space :wacko:


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## oldish hippy (Jan 7, 2016)

Teutone said:


> If I would have to do it again, I would fit a underslung tank. Yes a lot more work and more money but you free up the gas locker and use some unused space under the vehicle. Everytime I lie under the vehicle I get carried away with ideas of what to do with the empty space :wacko:



could you turn into a hearse if theres that much space


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## listerdiesel (Jan 7, 2016)

swiftcamper said:


> We have a fitted tank which seems like a good idea but it does limit you and we are just about to add a few connectors so we can use a calor bottle or when we finally get abroad be able to use local bottles as I have always said lpg is not that easily available in the type of place we go to and local bottles are so cheap and easily available everywhere.



Make sure you have a decent size tank to start with.

We planned on 2 X 40 litre for the Mercedes, but are now looking at 90 litre or 110 litre instead.

Peter


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## Teutone (Jan 7, 2016)

listerdiesel said:


> Make sure you have a decent size tank to start with.
> 
> We planned on 2 X 40 litre for the Mercedes, but are now looking at 90 litre or 110 litre instead.
> 
> Peter




well you have enough payload available and probably don't bother using the eurotunnel. I would not like to loose the Eurotunnel option personally and rather
have a T-off to connect a foreign bottle if the need ever arises.
I have also installed a Bullfinch takeoff to connect the gas BBQ. Very handy, just plug in and cook.


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## caplee (Jan 7, 2016)

I'm going to get Mike to read this thread as it is all a bit confusing for me :lol-053:

He is still keen on the underslung tank and from what I've told him he reckon he can fix it and remove it again if we did buy a new van??  He is very good at DIY and is also a mechanic so who knows??

Thank you all for your replies - you have been really helpful.  

Leanne


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## listerdiesel (Jan 7, 2016)

Teutone said:


> well you have enough payload available and probably don't bother using the eurotunnel. I would not like to loose the Eurotunnel option personally and rather
> have a T-off to connect a foreign bottle if the need ever arises.
> I have also installed a Bullfinch takeoff to connect the gas BBQ. Very handy, just plug in and cook.



Yes, 2 tons of payload before converting goes a long way!

We have just got back from Tinley Tech (not far from us) with a 100 litre LPG cylinder (360mm X 1097mm) and brackets. Buying a liquid output multivalve and modifying it for vapour take-off is fairly simple and a lot cheaper than buying a dedicated vapour tank.

We currently have two Land Rover Discovery V8's, both of which run on LPG so the tunnel is out, but even when we get the Mercedes finished I think we will still use the ferries rather than the tunnel.

Peter


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## smudge5577 (Jan 7, 2016)

*Gas it or gaslow???*

Hi all,
We are taking delivery of our 1st camper at the end of this month and aim to get my money's worth. We hope to get on to the continent at least once this year if not more and having read up as much as I can, think that the LPG conversion is the way to go for us. Interesting stuff on this thread but I reckon my diy skills are up to fitting a dual 6kg system with external fill point. 
I'd pretty much decided that a gaslow system was the one for me but reading this I find that the gas it system looks pretty much identical other than the price and a  club discount on this system pretty much makes it about half the price!!!
Anybody got anything to add that I need to be weary of or have I read it correctly. Thanks in advance.
Smudge


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## maxi77 (Jan 7, 2016)

We are very happy Gasit customers, excellent presales service, cant comment on aftersales service as we haven't needed it after 2.5 years.


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## listerdiesel (Jan 8, 2016)

swiftcamper said:


> Just spoken to tinley tech as I want some fittings to allow us to use a calor cylinder or foreign bottles.
> Going to go to them to find the fittings as not bsp it is an American thread mpt or something?




There are a variety of threads and fittings, even more when you get into things like the Truma regulator which has an M20 X 1.5 male thread for the gas input.

Tony or Mick are excellent guys and super-helpfull.

Peter


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## phillybarbour (Jan 8, 2016)

Gas It for me every time, good kit, very helpful support team on the telephone if u need it. When I got mine one item was missing, rang up very aplogetic and sent out for next day. To cap it all well priced.


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## Canalsman (Jan 8, 2016)

phillybarbour said:


> Gas It for me every time, good kit, very helpful support team on the telephone if u need it. When I got mine one item was missing, rang up very aplogetic and sent out for next day. To cap it all well priced.



And GasIt actively support this site by offering prizes for the regular full member draws ...

Please do support our sponsors where possible


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## RoaminRog (Jan 9, 2016)

I am lead to believe that Gas it bottles and Gaslow bottles are actually made in the same factory, just painted a different colour.
Gas It is cheaper to buy and as a member you can claim a discount when you order by phone. (You will need to know the code to quote, when you order).
Remember that Gas It, generally speaking, have a next day delivery service. There is always someone at the end of the phone to offer advice.


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## RichardHelen262 (Jan 9, 2016)

Apart from the different sizes I notice that Gas it do two different types of bottles the more expensive being
The four hole, does any one know what the difference is, and is there any advantage in getting the more expensive ?


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## molly 2 (Jan 9, 2016)

smudge5577 said:


> Hi all,
> We are taking delivery of our 1st camper at the end of this month and aim to get my money's worth. We hope to get on to the continent at least once this year if not more and having read up as much as I can, think that the LPG conversion is the way to go for us. Interesting stuff on this thread but I reckon my diy skills are up to fitting a dual 6kg system with external fill point.
> I'd pretty much decided that a gaslow system was the one for me but reading this I find that the gas it system looks pretty much identical other than the price and a  club discount on this system pretty much makes it about half the price!!!
> Anybody got anything to add that I need to be weary of or have I read it correctly. Thanks in advance.
> Smudge


.  I have a 6 kg in locker fill set up ,the gauge is poor shows empty when still 1/4 full only, does about 5/6 days blown  heating ,last fill up £6 .50 , callor 6 kg light £22 .very easy fit .


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## Teutone (Jan 9, 2016)

helen262 said:


> Apart from the different sizes I notice that Gas it do two different types of bottles the more expensive being
> The four hole, does any one know what the difference is, and is there any advantage in getting the more expensive ?



I have a four hole which is strictly speaking a tank and not a bottle.
The four hole has a gas/liquid seperator to make sure there is never liquid gas coming and and a inbuild flow protector, means if your high pressure pipe to the regualtor ruptures, the gas flow is turned off.
It's all on the gas it website.

PS you can also fit a LED gauge which is a little bit more accurate as it driven by a float and not pressure like the bottle gauage


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## Talbot (Jan 9, 2016)

We have a built in underneath gas tank for last 4 years, but have used these before. A contentious issue but many people still use them.

LPG GPL Propane Bottle filling adaptor gas autogas caravan camping Bayonet heat | eBay

AUTOGAS LPG EUROPEAN FILL POINT ADAPTER KIT, 2 piece filling Adaptor kit | eBay


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## maxi77 (Jan 9, 2016)

Talbot said:


> We have a built in underneath gas tank for last 4 years, but have used these before. A contentious issue but many people still use them.
> 
> LPG GPL Propane Bottle filling adaptor gas autogas caravan camping Bayonet heat | eBay
> 
> AUTOGAS LPG EUROPEAN FILL POINT ADAPTER KIT, 2 piece filling Adaptor kit | eBay



Like many things quite safe if you know what you are doing and make sure you only fill to 80% but of course there is always the smart arse who tries to fill to the top.


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## Talbot (Jan 9, 2016)

maxi77 said:


> Like many things quite safe if you know what you are doing and make sure you only fill to 80% but of course there is always the smart arse who tries to fill to the top.



Safest way is to only ever fill them when they're empty. A 6kg bottle takes 12 litres which allows for expansion.  So to be cautious only put 11 litres in. You will always get people who say it's dangerous but they probably work for calor? 

I've never read of anyone's motorhome blowing up whilst filling a bottle. Hey ho


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jan 9, 2016)

Talbot said:


> Safest way is to only ever fill them when they're empty. A 6kg bottle takes 12 litres which allows for expansion.  So to be cautious only put 11 litres in. You will always get people who say it's dangerous but they probably work for calor?
> 
> I've never read of anyone's motorhome blowing up whilst filling a bottle. Hey ho




I don't work for calor and say this advice is dangerous and foolhardy.

Taken from the gaslow website.........

_''We cannot currently guarantee that all LPG (Autogas) forecourt garages will fill your cylinders unless they are fitted permanently in your caravan/motorhome together with the remote Gaslow Filler Kit.

This is because some people have been trying to fill non-refillable cylinders to save money.  This is both illegal and very dangerous resulting in the major petrol companies deciding not to allow any portable cylinders to be filled on their forecourts.  This is totally understandable, as they would have to educate all of their forecourt staff to be able to identify which cylinders should or should not be filled.  They could also be held responsible for any accidents resulting from overfilled cylinders. 

Further to the above, we would not recommend the direct fill cylinder for European use as we cannot guarantee you will be able to fill it.''_

Ordinary members of the public should not be allowed to refill a non refillable gas bottle,it is an incredibly dangerous thing to do and if there is an incident the consequences will be devastating not only for the person filling the bottle but also everyone nearby on the forecourt.Refillable bottles or underslung gas tanks with an automatic 80% cut off valve are the only safe refillable gas containers


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## Talbot (Jan 9, 2016)

Ha ha, there's loads of threads on this mute subject and I new this would bring the hornets out of their nest. It's always been a contentious subject, but as I said, I've never read of any explosions caused through filling a bottle. Our motorhome has the built in underslung tank so fortunately I don't need to do this, but I know plenty people who've done it for years. If it wasn't for greed, companies like calor could get their act together and standardise the industry so any bottle from any country would have the same valve and eliminate the need for those who have to resort to this. I blame the manufacturers as this could easily be stopped overnight.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jan 9, 2016)

Talbot said:


> ...................................................... It's always been a contentious subject, but as I said, I've never read of any explosions caused through filling a bottle.......................



Here's a first for you then.....

Eccles Morrison's camper van LPG fire: Hero gran Edith Ellison rescued camper van driver who was engulfed in flames - Manchester Evening News


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## Talbot (Jan 9, 2016)

Nice article, but no mention of it being a calor bottle so one must assume it was a gasit bottle because if it is illegal like you say, he would have been arrested and this would be a much bigger story. Calor would have been all over it as well for publicity to stop the practice. Just my thoughts.


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## Teutone (Jan 9, 2016)

Talbot said:


> Nice article, but no mention of it being a calor bottle so one must assume it was a gasit bottle because if it is illegal like you say, he would have been arrested and this would be a much bigger story. Calor would have been all over it as well for publicity to stop the practice. Just my thoughts.



sounds a bit funny. Ignited from the summer heat. Hmmmmmm.........

Speaking from own experience, he might have left the fridge running on gas when he filled the bottle......

I have driven in and out of the petrol station (getting diesel) forgetting to switch the gas of the fridge off :scared:

But when filling the LPG, EVERYTHING is switched off. I always double check.


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## Canalsman (Jan 9, 2016)

Teutone said:


> I have a four hole which is strictly speaking a tank and not a bottle.
> The four hole has a gas/liquid seperator to make sure there is never liquid gas coming and and a inbuild flow protector, means if your high pressure pipe to the regualtor ruptures, the gas flow is turned off.
> It's all on the gas it website.
> 
> PS you can also fit a LED gauge which is a little bit more accurate as it driven by a float and not pressure like the bottle gauage



I have just such a GasIt tank, and the gauge is float operated and extremely accurate ...


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## listerdiesel (Jan 9, 2016)

I continue to be amazed at the lassez-faire attitude towards filling of bottles by unapproved methods, particularly as those doing it should know better.

Suffice to say that the risks far outweigh any benefits, and if it does go badly wrong, you will end up paying for it in one way or another, maybe with your life or serious injury.

Simply not worth the risk. The proper gear is available, why not use it?

In the late 60's we had a demonstration by a Calor Gas representative at a Tonibell depot where I worked. He showed us quite graphically how gas flowed across the floor and how it could ignite from a spark at some distance.

We also had the usual safety talks etc which went in one ear and out of the other for most guys.

We had relief valves for filling the tanks on the icecream vans, when the tank was full the valve would let out gas vapour. One driver left his tank filling and got involved in a conversation with another guy and forgot his tank was filling. When he returned, smoking a cigarette, he thoughtfully threw it away in some scrub alongside the tank, but unfortunately the overflow had been running on his tank for 15 minutes and the scrub was full of gas.

The resulting explosion blew out windows and caused him some burns, but nothing worse as it was relatively open.  

Never take risks with inflammables, it just isn't worth risking your life or other's lives.

I'm not being holier than thou, I wouldn't risk my own family or vehicles with these fillers, my tanks are properly installed and maintained.

Peter


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## Teutone (Jan 9, 2016)

listerdiesel said:


> I continue to be amazed at the lassez-faire attitude towards filling of bottles by unapproved methods, particularly as those doing it should know better.
> 
> Suffice to say that the risks far outweigh any benefits, and if it does go badly wrong, you will end up paying for it in one way or another, maybe with your life or serious injury.
> 
> ...



I share your view. When I was looking into all the bottle re-filling stuff I came to the same conclusion. The proper stuff is out there. Why not use it and be safe.


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## Sundri (Jan 9, 2016)

Whenever this subject comes up I still can’t believe that people will pay thousands for a van, think nothing of filling it up with diesel every trip and yet take risks like these to save a few quid a year!


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## shortcircuit (Jan 9, 2016)

It also amazes me the number of comments made from individuals who have no idea of what is involved in filling a cylinder and pass comments based on no experience.  If those had actually seen a cylinder being properly refilled they would ask what the difference is to filling a cut-off cylinder. It would make you more aware and take care in filling rather than blindly relying on an automatic cut-off valve to function.


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## listerdiesel (Jan 10, 2016)

shortcircuit said:


> It also amazes me the number of comments made from individuals who have no idea of what is involved in filling a cylinder and pass comments based on no experience.  If those had actually seen a cylinder being properly refilled they would ask what the difference is to filling a cut-off cylinder. It would make you more aware and take care in filling rather than blindly relying on an automatic cut-off valve to function.



Excuse me, but I have seen more than one of these 'devices' in use and have made sure I was suitably distant during the process. I have been involved with bulk LPG for many years and we run multiple LPG-fuelled vehicles in the family, plus trailer with refillable and the Mercedes. I fill up on average every week, more than that if we are on a trip, so see plenty of dodgy fillers and also plenty being refused at filling stations.

There is no manufacturer of LPG cylinders that suggests or recommends their use, and most say that their use is dangerous.

The point of a cut-out inside a cylinder is that it takes away any issues for the person filling the tank, removes any danger to others in the locality, is a known and reliable method which is supported across Europe and is a written EN standard with known parameters, both for the filler and the cylinder.

Your device has only cheapness to recommend it. If it has been tested and has approvals, perhaps you could quote them here?

Peter


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jan 10, 2016)

shortcircuit said:


> It also amazes me the number of comments made from individuals who have no idea of what is involved in filling a cylinder and pass comments based on no experience.  If those had actually seen a cylinder being properly refilled they would ask what the difference is to filling a cut-off cylinder. It would make you more aware and take care in filling rather than blindly relying on an automatic cut-off valve to function.



What amazes me is the amount of people who are prepared to use non proprietary and potentially dangerous equipment just to save a few pennies.The approved equipment is readily available so why not use it,the extra cost is negligible compared to the amount we spend on a motorhome.(I have been refilling my underslung gas tank for 4 years so have some experience)


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## shortcircuit (Jan 10, 2016)

listerdiesel said:


> Excuse me, but I have seen more than one of these 'devices' in use and have made sure I was suitably distant during the process. I have been involved with bulk LPG for many years and we run multiple LPG-fuelled vehicles in the family, plus trailer with refillable and the Mercedes. I fill up on average every week, more than that if we are on a trip, so see plenty of dodgy fillers and also plenty being refused at filling stations.
> 
> There is no manufacturer of LPG cylinders that suggests or recommends their use, and most say that their use is dangerous.
> 
> ...



What a load of twaddle.  Please explain the difference in filling that you were  "suitably distant".  The procedure is exactly the same other than the cylinder must be empty and you switch off the gas supply at the correct point indicated on a slow moving delivery gauge.

If one was to plumb in a standard cylinder with a remote nozzle fitted, how would you know the difference, you cant.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jan 10, 2016)

shortcircuit said:


> ................................................
> 
> If one was to plumb in a standard cylinder with a remote nozzle fitted, how would you know the difference, you cant.



You can tell the difference as an approved cylinder would automatically cut out at 80% full,the standard cylinder would fill to the top if the operator was negligient.


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## listerdiesel (Jan 10, 2016)

shortcircuit said:


> What a load of twaddle.  Please explain the difference in filling that you were  "suitably distant".  The procedure is exactly the same other than the cylinder must be empty and you switch off the gas supply at the correct point indicated on a slow moving delivery gauge.
> 
> If one was to plumb in a standard cylinder with a remote nozzle fitted, how would you know the difference, you cant.



Your risk, your neck if it goes wrong, and possibly someone else as well.

News | Danger Of Filling LPG Cylinders At Autogas Sites -Calor

I know where I would rather be, NOT around people like you at service stations.

Peter


Peter


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## Bazbro (Jan 10, 2016)

> Your risk, your neck if it goes wrong, and possibly someone else as well.



Quite.

The 80% "overfill protection" cut-off is there for a reason.  Fill a tank to somewhere near 100% (by relying on the delivery pump to shut off) on a cold morning and then park in the sun... the pressure inside the tank could become enormous and could rupture the tank/fittings.  And that's when I don't want to be parked anywhere near you!  Nor have to represent you in your subsequent Court appearances, both Criminal and Civil.

I'm staggered that the dire possible consequences of over-filling lpg tanks, beyond the safe 80%, seem to have escaped some of you??

Barry


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## runnach (Jan 10, 2016)

swiftcamper said:


> There is a lot of scaremongering from both camps on the refilling of gas cylinders, you have calor etc on one side who obviously do not want you to fill their cylinders it is their businesses you are affecting, then you have the refillable gas cylinder suppliers who again want you to buy their products.
> The fittings are all going to be pretty much the same as some of the lpg component supply companies actually advertise kits to refill your own cylinders, as for being illegal that again seems to be a grey area,I have looked and found lots of guidance and recommendations but no actual legislation as yet.
> It seems the lpg association is an industry body that has a voluntary code for installers it is not a regulatory body.



It seems 50 shades of grey. 

if butane or propane are used as refrigerants which they are although there seem to be far better gasses.the legislation is there under the Fgas regs It is illegal and a criminal offence to mess about with them.

Of course we are using as propellants not refrigerants, But the legislation refers to "handling" of refrigerants not not necessarily what they are being used for.Propane and butane fall under that scope.

It would only take a couple of lines adding to the FGAS and refilling without being qualified could soon be a law. And give complete clarity.


In fact the more I think about it under the current fgas regs it could be construed as illegal, handling a refirgerant without certification. The breaking into the system (i.e changing a bottle) falls outside the scope because used as a propellant not a refrigerant.

channa


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## listerdiesel (Jan 10, 2016)

swiftcamper said:


> There is a lot of scaremongering from both camps on the refilling of gas cylinders, you have calor etc on one side who obviously do not want you to fill their cylinders it is their businesses you are affecting, then you have the refillable gas cylinder suppliers who again want you to buy their products.



I think the bulk of all LPG in the UK comes from Calor or Calor and Shell.

I agree they have a vested interest, but they also have to set the standards for the industry as the single largest operator in the UK.

We went refillable from day one, not to save money, but for the convenience of having a fixed bottle/cylinder and being able to refill in Europe.

Peter


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## Canalsman (Jan 10, 2016)

Consider the insurance consequences.

If you choose to refill bottles connected to your 'van, and by this I mean bottles not intended/approved for consumer bulk filling, in the event of fire or explosion your insurer will reject your claim!

They will probably also reject any claims by third parties which could be financially catastrophic.


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## shortcircuit (Jan 10, 2016)

Many years ago when it was first posted of individuals cobbling together bits of pipework and fittings to refill a gas cylinder I was in the Ooh, Ahh brigade as it all was a bit haphazard and dangerous as it was suggested that if you overfilled you simply vented off into the atmosphere, which is stupid. 

I purchased Gaslow refillable cylinders and installed them and became acquaint with the procedure involved in filling.

Recently adapters have been manufactured, to a high quality, allowing standard bottle to be refilled following a simple procedure which is virtually exactly the same as filling the cylinders fitted with cut-off valves.  Whether this is legal or not needs clarified  

I used the grey matter between my ears to work out the dangers involved and not just simply bleat out.  An empty 11kg cylinder is filled with 22 lts of gas, which is 80% of capacity.  If an empty 11kg  cylinder is filled, following the exactly same procedure as a Gaslow system, with 20 lts of gas, where is the danger?


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## Talbot (Jan 10, 2016)

I'm not certain it's illegal. I can understand why companies like Calor would wish to outlaw it. £22 for a replacement bottle versus £6 from an LPG station. Calor use similar adaptors to fill the empty bottles. The adaptors sold on eBay are robust devices.

I have an underslung lpg tank fitted as standard, but when I'm in Europe I have different adaptors for different countries. I have to select an adaptor and screw it to my uk adaptor. These adaptors I purchased on eBay from the same companies that sell the refillable adaptors. I'm therefore probably exposed to the same risk on the forecourt as someone refilling an empty bottle, but I'm legitimate.

It's dangerous filling a car with petrol but we all do it. 

This is an lpg gas tank explosion, but it's got nothing to do with filling empty bottles.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5-nOPvXiIWQ


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jan 10, 2016)

shortcircuit said:


> ...................................................
> I used the grey matter between my ears to work out the dangers involved and not just simply bleat out.  An empty 11kg cylinder is filled with 22 lts of gas, which is 80% of capacity.  If an empty 11kg  cylinder is filled, following the exactly same procedure as a Gaslow system, with 20 lts of gas, where is the danger?



I am sure the majority of members on here are more than capable of working out the figures and refilling a standard gas bottle on the forecourt.The danger is,and something which you have not considered is human error.What if your'e having a bad day,lost in an unfamiliar country,satnav and wife being awkward and you are feeling generally stressed.It would be very easy to make a mistake in those circumstances and overfill the gas bottle.We have all made mistakes in the past and I don't believe anyone who says they haven't.The huge problem with LPG is that a genuine mistake could well be disastrous,if a genuine refillable bottle or tank is used then it is impossible to make that mistake and overfill.

What I find quite incredulous is the members on here who are prepared to take what I believe is an unacceptable risk which could affect others nearby just to save a small amount of money.If you want to risk your life then that's your choice but it's not right to expose other people to that risk.

Just watch this video to see the power of exploding gas bottles............

Russian Truck Gas Explosion - Балоны с Газом ДТП [HD] - YouTube


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## shortcircuit (Jan 10, 2016)

If you are prepared to drive in the conditions you describe than you are  irresponsible.

I am not advocating the use of self refill but I take exception to the scaremongering posts of the dangers that are no more so than filling a cut-off system.  Following a set procedure is not to difficult to follow.


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## Bazbro (Jan 10, 2016)

Wow!  Look at those cylinders go!  Each subsequent explosion is just one cylinder...

The problem with your proposal, shortcircuit, 





> An empty 11kg cylinder is filled with 22 lts of gas, which is 80% of capacity. If an empty 11kg cylinder is filled, following the exactly same procedure as a Gaslow system, with 20 lts of gas, where is the danger?


  is the supposition that the cylinder really IS completely, 100% empty and that you only ever, ever, ever put in exactly the appropriate 80% of gas.  The world I inhabit isn't as perfect as that, but I'm glad that yours is.  There would never be any need for any safety devices with that thinking.

Wakk44 is spot-on when he says 





> The danger is,and something which you have not considered is human error.



Barry


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## Lee (Jan 10, 2016)

I'm afraid this discussion can go on for ever, at the end of the day it's down to the individual, whether they feel it's safe enough to risk their property and personal safety plus anybody in the near vicinity.
Or to install a system which has been designed and passed industry standards.
It's the individuals choice.


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## shortcircuit (Jan 10, 2016)

You really need to put your brain in gear and try to work it out logically.

Very easy to determine if a cylinder is empty, the peep goes out.  Crack the valve to determine if is totally empty. I suggested to fill to 20 lts and not 22 lts for a 11kg cylinder, which is well below the 80% so an even greater margin of safety.  If you watch the gauge at the pump it moves very slowly and is very accurate; have you ever paid for more fuel than what was registered on the gauge?

Do you watch the gauge when filling your refillable or do you blindly hope the cut off valve will work?  I do.


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## Teutone (Jan 10, 2016)

shortcircuit said:


> You really need to put your brain in gear and try to work it out logically.
> 
> Very easy to determine if a cylinder is empty, the peep goes out.  Crack the valve to determine if is totally empty. I suggested to fill to 20 lts and not 22 lts for a 11kg cylinder, which is well below the 80% so an even greater margin of safety.  If you watch the gauge at the pump it moves very slowly and is very accurate; have you ever paid for more fuel than what was registered on the gauge?
> 
> Do you watch the gauge when filling your refillable or do you blindly hope the cut off valve will work?  I do.



All well said and basically I would agree. But more often than not I still HAVE gas in the bottle left when I need to refill for another trip. I am not planning my trips around empty gas bottles. I want head off when I am ready.

And exactly here lies the possible problem in my humble opinion. You are on the way out and misguess the amount of gas leftover in your bottle and overfill by accident. I am sure there is a bit of tolerance with the 80% but i would rather be on the safe side.

So for me the decision was easy, just get a proper refillable bottle.


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## shortcircuit (Jan 10, 2016)

I do have refillable cylinders and one of the best extras fitted.

To those so concerned about safety, as I understand it, refillable cylinders should be replaced every 5 years?  Can you confirm.


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## Talbot (Jan 10, 2016)

Only a fool would try and fill a bottle that still had gas in it. Surely everyone has two bottles. When one runs out replace it with your full one and you have at least 2 weeks of gas to keep you going while you're on the lookout for an lpg garage. Where is the stress in that?


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## Bazbro (Jan 10, 2016)

Steel cylinders replace every ten years (Composite cylinders, five years).

I'm glad that you purge your cylinder before you fill it up, Talbot!   A lot of people just rely on the fact that "it's running out" so it must be empty...

Barry


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jan 10, 2016)

swiftcamper said:


> Why was he refilling his calor cylinders on the motorway travelling at speed ?
> Or was it actually a crash and has nothing really to do with refilling gas cylinders.



Please don't try and be facetious,this is a serious and very important topic.As we are on a public forum it is quite likely that some people could be influenced by this thread and decide to undertake some dangerous and potentially lethal practices to save a miniscule amount of money.As I explained in the post I was illustrating the tremendous power of an LPG cylinder if it does explode.It's a subject that deserves better than the flippant reply above.


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## runnach (Jan 10, 2016)

What a set of numpties !!...gas bottle empty? really rarely the case and the reason shouldn't be stored on their side when allegedly so ....As for filling with litres flawed in itself bottles should be filled on weight ... And if half of you are as bright as you make out , would know that and the equation.What about the possibility of accumulated "heavy ends" in your botlles ? You dont know what a heavy end is ? And oyu are wanting to top up your own gas ? Imbeciles !

Sorry for the rather tough stance but all this talk of common sense assumes others have the same knowledge when it seems pretty obvious to me by the comments bereft !

Channa


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## Talbot (Jan 10, 2016)

It's always a great topic for a bit of wildcamping banter. It guarantees to stir the hornets from their nest.


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## Teutone (Jan 10, 2016)

Talbot said:


> Only a fool would try and fill a bottle that still had gas in it. Surely everyone has two bottles. When one runs out replace it with your full one and you have at least 2 weeks of gas to keep you going while you're on the lookout for an lpg garage. Where is the stress in that?



Let's just agree that you can't agree with people who like it easy and are willing to spend a few quid to have equipment which is safe to use and convenient. Don't call these people fools.
Or do I call people fools who take chances with guesswork while fiddling with dangerous equipment?


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## Canalsman (Jan 10, 2016)

Talbot said:


> I have an underslung lpg tank fitted as standard, but when I'm in Europe I have different adaptors for different countries. I have to select an adaptor and screw it to my uk adaptor. These adaptors I purchased on eBay from the same companies that sell the refillable adaptors. I'm therefore probably exposed to the same risk on the forecourt as someone refilling an empty bottle, but I'm legitimate.
> .



That's not true because your tank has an 80% cut off valve which the Calor type bottles don't have.

Fitting an adapter, provided it is tightened sufficiently to seal properly, is perfectly safe.


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## Talbot (Jan 10, 2016)

Teutone said:


> Let's just agree that you can't agree with people who like it easy and are willing to spend a few quid to have equipment which is safe to use and convenient. Don't call these people fools.
> Or do I call people fools who take chances with guesswork while fiddling with dangerous equipment?



Come on Teutone,  stay with it. I've twice stated that our motorhome is manufactured with a 25 Litre underfloor mounted LPG gas tank with Drive safe regulator. How easy people get wound up on here. I don't fill bottles with adaptors. I have no need to.


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## Teutone (Jan 10, 2016)

Talbot said:


> Come on Teutone,  stay with it. I've twice stated that our motorhome is manufactured with a 25 Litre underfloor mounted LPG gas tank with Drive safe regulator. How easy people get wound up on here. I don't fill bottles with adaptors. I have no need to.



Then why are still talking it down that self filling of hire bottles is coming with a risk?
Not wanting to offend anyone but there are people in this world who believe everything they read on the internet. And if somebody posts that filling bottles is a doddle, they may not have the grey matter like you and just go and fill to whatever level.
Personally i decided that fiddling with the scales at the petrol station isn't really for me.


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## Talbot (Jan 10, 2016)

Teutone said:


> Then why are still talking it down that self filling of hire bottles is coming with a risk?
> Not wanting to offend anyone but there are people in this world who believe everything they read on the internet. And if somebody posts that filling bottles is a doddle, they may not have the grey matter like you and just go and fill to whatever level.
> Personally i decided that fiddling with the scales at the petrol station isn't really for me.



I think your response is well written and you raise valid points.  I think if one looks at the reasons why and how this market developed we will find the answers.  Each bottle manufacturer manufactures bottles for their own market/country. They made sure that there was no compatability of regulators between each manufacturer. Then we the motorhomers created the need for standards, but calor and the like want to tie their customers in to their own proprietary systems even though the market was and still is crying out for one standard bottle across all of Europe.  Then because of market demand, other oem's saw a niche and began to manufacture filling adaptors to address the problem.  Shortly after gasit and other oem's followed suit and built the first refillable bottles with additional safety features built in. Whilst this is the history to why the industry is where it is, the original problem still remains and I would still encourage calor and all bottle manufacturers across Europe to get their heads together and produce one standard bottle and regulator across the industry.  However,  we all know they will never do it and this subject will always remain a contentious issue.


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## maxi77 (Jan 10, 2016)

Many moons ago when I was taught demolitions in the RN, one of the first points was that explosives were perfectly safe as long as you remembered they were bl**dy dangerous. Gas is much the same and that is the problem to many people forget it is bl**dy dangerous and what the risks are.


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## Teutone (Jan 10, 2016)

Talbot said:


> I think your response is well written and you raise valid points.  I think if one looks at the reasons why and how this market developed we will find the answers.  Each bottle manufacturer manufactures bottles for their own market/country. They made sure that there was no compatability of regulators between each manufacturer. Then we the motorhomers created the need for standards, but calor and the like want to tie their customers in to their own proprietary systems even though the market was and still is crying out for one standard bottle across all of Europe.  Then because of market demand, other oem's saw a niche and began to manufacture filling adaptors to address the problem.  Shortly after gasit and other oem's followed suit and built the first refillable bottles with additional safety features built in. Whilst this is the history to why the industry is where it is, the original problem still remains and I would still encourage calor and all bottle manufacturers across Europe to get their heads together and produce one standard bottle and regulator across the industry.  However,  we all know they will never do it and this subject will always remain a contentious issue.



Can only speak for Germany. Nobody DIY refills bottles and refillable bottles like gasit and gaslow are unheared off. Why you may ask? Because the gas bottle suppliers just charge for what the gas is worth and not double like in the UK! 
That's where the root of the problem is if you ask me.
When people feel they get ripped off, they are prepared to take a few risks to save some money.
Sell gas for what it's  worth and nobody would bother to circumnavigate the system.
I can life with a few adapters in my gas locker for other countries.


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## maxi77 (Jan 10, 2016)

Teutone said:


> Can only speak for Germany. Nobody DIY refills bottles and refillable bottles like gasit and gaslow are unheared off. Why you may ask? Because the gas bottle suppliers just charge for what the gas is worth and not double like in the UK!
> That's where the root of the problem is if you ask me.
> When people feel they get ripped off, they are prepared to take a few risks to save some money.
> Sell gas for what it's  worth and nobody would bother to circumnavigate the system.
> I can life with a few adapters in my gas locker for other countries.



Despite this Alugas cylinders are made in Germany and the company has a pretty wide distributor list for Germany as one can see

Die Gasfachfrau Karin Nöfer

Our German chums have two and fill them up regularly in the Algarve.


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## Teutone (Jan 10, 2016)

maxi77 said:


> Despite this Alugas cylinders are made in Germany and the company has a pretty wide distributor list for Germany as one can see
> 
> Die Gasfachfrau Karin Nöfer
> 
> Our German chums have two and fill them up regularly in the Algarve.



IN  Germany people won't need them as gas is available at reasonable price at wvery corner.


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## ivanisafish (Mar 21, 2016)

*gas it fitting*

Have been looking at getting gas it system fitted, but not confident to do it myself. Does anyone know where I could get it fitted for reasonable price? Also noticed you can buy their stuff on e bay. Any comments on this?


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## Obanboy666 (Mar 21, 2016)

ivanisafish said:


> Have been looking at getting gas it system fitted, but not confident to do it myself. Does anyone know where I could get it fitted for reasonable price? Also noticed you can buy their stuff on e bay. Any comments on this?



What is your location ? Members can then recommend where you can have it fitted local to you.


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## shortcircuit (Mar 21, 2016)

ivanisafish said:


> Have been looking at getting gas it system fitted, but not confident to do it myself. Does anyone know where I could get it fitted for reasonable price? Also noticed you can buy their stuff on e bay. Any comments on this?



Do you change your existing gas bottles as the procedure is just the same?  A good suggestion from OBoy


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## Bazbro (Mar 21, 2016)

ivanisafish said:


> Have been looking at getting gas it system fitted, but not confident to do it myself. Does anyone know where I could get it fitted for reasonable price? Also noticed you can buy their stuff on e bay. Any comments on this?



I'm pretty sure any gas fitter would happily do this as a quickie job.  If you can sort out the system you want and have the fittings ready, then connecting up is simple, particularly for a professional - and he could do it on your own driveway.  If you want an external filler, it's a little more complicated in that a certain sized hole (70mm) needs cutting to accept the filler, but it's all very straightforward.  This might encourage you to at least get it planned and sorted yourself, then get a gas fitter to connect it all - it's how to fit the external filler... The complete kit - exsis owners forum 
Fitting the hoses and regulators inside the gas compartment is quite straightforward...



Gaslow website here... http://tinyurl.com/z2znhr4 
GasiT website here...GAS IT Refillable gas bottles, refillable gas tank, vapour tanks and gas bottles, for caravans, by GAS IT, Alugas - GAS IT Leisure Gas - Catering, Motorhome, Caravan, Farrier and Road Repair Refillable Gas Solutions

I'm sure that either of these companies would plan your system for you if you're unsure.

Buying off eBay can be problematic IF what you buy isn't good quality.  Frankly, unless I was certain of the manufacturer/source of the components, I wouldn't bother.

Good luck.

Barry


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## ivanisafish (Mar 21, 2016)

Thanks for info, I hadn't realised that you can just connect it up yourself if it doesn't have external cap. Is there any advantage to having external one?


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## Bazbro (Mar 22, 2016)

I believe so, yes.

Apart from the inconvenience of having to open the gas locker to connect to your bottle(s), I have heard of instances where garages have refused to sell gas to vehicles where the filling is done via open boot lids/lockers, etc. and not via a purpose-fitted connector.  This is presumably a caution against people attempting to refill bottles that are non-user refillable because they don't have the internal "80% shut-off" safety device (ie Calor, etc).

For the comparatively minor job of cutting the 70mm hole adjacent to the gas locker, the benefit is overwhelming.  A garage repair shop could possibly cut this hole for you for a few quid if you were intent on doing the job yourself.  I'd urge you to get the gas connections either made or at least checked by a qualified gas-fitter before you use the system no matter how competent you think you are.  The gas fitter should carry personal liability insurance should the unthinkable happen later (a disastrous gas leak, etc.).

When deciding the position of the hole, sufficient space on the interior is, of course, important.  Have a dummy run on the floor of your garage (or lounge if Mum lets you!) so that you can visualise the space that the hoses' curves need on the inside, behind the connector. 

If you do cut (or have cut for you) this 70mm hole, I'd caution you against using a DIY hole cutter, normally sold for use on wood.  Some m/home walls use steel mesh embedded in the construction and/or have an aluminium shell - neither of these is suitable to be properly cut by a DIY hole-cutter.  The proper cutter costs about 20 quid or so and a tradesman should either have one or be prepared to acquire one to do your job.  If cutting it yourself with the correct cutter, apart from checking the position several times(!) before making the hole, I recommend that you cut part way through from one side and then finish the hole by cutting from the other side - you then have two neat cuts either side.  

Good luck.

Barry


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## caplee (Apr 6, 2016)

Thanks for your help everybody.  It has taken some time but ordered from GASIT today.  Great customer services and got a nice little discount too 

Leanne


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