# Split Charge Relay Location ?



## Wooie1958 (Oct 19, 2020)

I have a 2006 model Compass Castaway 500LL on the Peugeot Boxer X244 chassis with a Electronic Battery Charger CB516, 12v Distribution Board DS520 EX, PC-200 Control Panel and a generic ( no name ) RCB box.

Does anyone know where the Split Charge Relay is please ?

I think it may be built into the DS520 EX Distribution Board because i cannot find it anywhere and have traced the cables from the engine battery to the distribution board and then to the leisure batteries which i moved and re-cabled many years back and there`s no sign of it what so ever.

Whilst away last week on the Melrose CAMC site i noticed that the EHU symbol on the PC-200 panel had gone out but i knew the electric was on because we had a small mains powered electric heater running.

I checked the EHU RCB`s and they were fine and i also checked the RCB`s in the motorhome and they were fine as well so i switched off the CB516 charger which was still lit and back on again which put the EHU symbol back on the PC-200 panel so i thought it was one of those things as everything seemed to be working.

Strangely though the solar charge controller which is connected directly to the batteries showed no charge at all not even solar but as soon as i restarted CB516 charger it returned to normal showing full batteries.

All the fuses in the distribution board were and still are ok including the 3 amp split charge relay fuse.

Coincidentally just after this happened i saw the site warden going back to reception with the electrical tester so he`d obviously been to someone on a pitch who thought they`d had a problem with their electric supply.

On the way to the next site i had to stop quick and nip into the bathroom, i saw the lights were on but i`d left the engine running which used to disable all the 12v systems through the split charge system on engine start up.

I also noticed that the twin battery split charge symbol was not lit on the PC-200 control panel and the green 12v light was not on the fridge either even though the engine was running.

When the engine is running the PC-200 panel shows a full charge 14.4v going to the engine battery but nothing going to the leisure batteries which used to show 14.4v as well.

Can anyone help please ?


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## wildebus (Oct 19, 2020)

I don't know your van model, but if I am reading it right, even when you have the engine running all the habitation lights stay on, but that didn't used to happen?
I would suspect it is not maybe a relay which is the problem but the D+ signal from the alternator going to the control box, which would switch on the Split-charge AND tell the hab electrics to go off.
Is the Battery Light on on the dashboard?  that could be an indication if it is an alternator fault.  otherwise a cable falled off somewhere along the route (or maybe even a blown fuse outwith the distribution board)


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 19, 2020)

All the habitation lights and the water pump etc. that are 12v used to be disabled when the engine was running, they now all work when the engine is running.

The battery light on the dashboard goes out as soon as the engine starts as per normal.

The twin battery symbol on the PC-200 panel is not showing when the engine runs, no voltage is showing as going to the leisure batteies and the fridge when switched to 12v now does not work when the engine is running.

The engine battery is showing as 14.4v when the engine is running on the PC-200 panel, that`s what`s throwing me.


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 19, 2020)

Just been out and checked again, there`s 14.46v coming through to the D+ on the distribution board.    All fuses, at least the ones i can find are ok


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## wildebus (Oct 19, 2020)

well, sounds like the activation signal is getting lost somewhere internally?  need someone who knows the distribution/control box I think


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 19, 2020)

This is the distribution box i have.









						CBE 12V DISTRIBUTION BOX WITH 15 FUSES (205210)
					






					www.marcleleisure.co.uk


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 19, 2020)

The best image i can find before i go and take a photo is this one of the inside, i`m wondering about the small black relay with the small round green sticker on it is which is right at the side of the D+ terminal.

It feels like it`s firmly soldered to the distribution board


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## mfw (Oct 19, 2020)

On the CBE DS500 distribution board whole lot is soldered including the relays and there are 2 relays that click when powering up control panel not sure if that is any use or not


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## Fisherman (Oct 19, 2020)

Often in my business of security installations we get faults within relay switches. 
By their very nature they are prone to either not closing or opening when required to.
Sometimes you can clear the problem by powering down the whole circuit board for 30 seconds then power back up.
But even if this works there's a high risk it may occur again.
You may hear a click when the it switches over, if you don't hear it switching when switching over its either the relay, or the its not receiving a signal from the equipment connected to it.


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 19, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Often in my business of security installations we get faults within relay switches.
> By their very nature they are prone to either not closing or opening when required to.
> Sometimes you can clear the problem by powering down the whole circuit board for 30 seconds then power back up.
> But even if this works there's a high risk it may occur again.
> You may hear a click when the it switches over, if you don't hear it switching when switching over its either the relay, or the its not receiving a signal from the equipment connected to it.




I`ll try that tomorrow after  i get back from MOT, thank you.


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 20, 2020)

MOT passed with flying colours and no advisories        

Tried a full disconnect as per  *Fisherman`s* post and it`s just the same so now i`m admitting defeat and calling in the experts     

Mobile auto electrician who also does motorohme and caravan electrics coming thursday 29th   

I`ll report back with the findings and if he`s any good his name and contact details


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## mfw (Oct 20, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> MOT passed with flying colours and no advisories
> 
> Tried a full disconnect as per  *Fisherman`s* post and it`s just the same so now i`m admitting defeat and calling in the experts
> 
> ...


I'd suggest leisure electronic repairs or apuljack engineering if you do get stuck - not sure the general auto electricians are clued up on these units


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## maingate (Oct 20, 2020)

When you open the bonnet is there a black plastic cover in the centre and just below the windscreen? If so, there will be 2 or possibly 3 relays behind the cover. I know the Ducatos of that era were like that so possibly the Citroen and Peugeot were the same. After all, they all came out of the same Sevel factory.


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 21, 2020)

maingate said:


> When you open the bonnet is there a black plastic cover in the centre and just below the windscreen? If so, there will be 2 or possibly 3 relays behind the cover. I know the Ducatos of that era were like that so possibly the Citroen and Peugeot were the same. After all, they all came out of the same Sevel factory.



Hi Jim, that was the first place i looked and there is only 1 relay under that cover which is the Bitron one in the link below.

As you say they are basically the same vehicle, my Peugeot 2.8 HDi and the father-in-laws Fiat 2.8 JTD are indentical including wiring loom and stickers etc. etc.









						Alfa Romeo (Genuine OE) 46520419 for sale online | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Alfa Romeo (Genuine OE) 46520419 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!



					www.ebay.co.uk


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 21, 2020)

I think this may be a case of " Compass / Eldiss / Explorer Group " strike again      

Some of the crazy, crazy things they`ve done when fitting out this motorhome that i`ve found over the years are beyond belief


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 22, 2020)

mfw said:


> I'd suggest leisure electronic repairs or apuljack engineering if you do get stuck - not sure the general auto electricians are clued up on these units



Thank you   

I`ve sent an email with a very detailed description of the problems to Apuljack Engineering and i`ll see what comes back from them.



			Apuljack Engineering Ltd.
		


I`ve still got the guy coming next thursday who says he`s confident he`ll be able to sort it but there`s no harm in having someone else in reserve


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## harrow (Oct 22, 2020)

The relay you found under the bonnet, can you feel it click as the van starts up ? It might only require a push in replacement relay  You could temporarily pinch one of the others from under the bonnet


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 22, 2020)

harrow said:


> The relay you found under the bonnet, can you feel it click as the van starts up ? It might only require a push in replacement relay  You could temporarily pinch one of the others from under the bonnet



That one has nothing to do with the habitaion electrics and is working perfectly after i tested it.


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## mfw (Oct 22, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> Thank you
> 
> I`ve sent an email with a very detailed description of the problems to Apuljack Engineering and i`ll see what comes back from them.
> 
> ...


David at leisure electronic repairs fixed my distribution board it is a one man operation and he is very helpful would almost certainly give some idea what to check free of charge - that is my personal view of the guy all through the problems i had


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 22, 2020)

mfw said:


> David at leisure electronic repairs fixed my distribution board it is a one man operation and he is very helpful would almost certainly give some idea what to check free of charge - that is my personal view of the guy all through the problems i had



Sadly their contact page is shut and they are not taking any further repairs for the time being    









						Home
					





					leisureelectronicrepairs.co.uk
				




I`ll keep checking just in case it changes.

Thank you for taking the time to post this


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 23, 2020)

Apuljack Engineering have not even bothered getting back to me, maybe they don`t want or need the work.


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## mfw (Oct 23, 2020)

Has your control panel got an internal battery - i have a c2015 control panel and internal battery failure/leakage can cause problems


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 23, 2020)

No, the PC-200 does not have an internal battery


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## mfw (Oct 23, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> No, the PC-200 does not have an internal battery
> 
> View attachment 88305


Only mentioned it incase the control unit had internal battery


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 23, 2020)

It seems to be intermittant, the 2 symbols i`ve lost are *9, Battery Parallel* and *12, Alternator charging *when the engine is running.

*

*

The panel does a self test every time you start it up like a lot of electronic devices do to prove that all the symbols are working however   ......................

When the engine is running both of these symbols are normally lit, now they do not light.

Sometimes when i turn the panel off and back on again one or the other or both very briefly flash but then go straight out whilst the other symbols stay lit for approx 2 seconds and then go out  and then only the time is shown until you press one of the test buttons *1, 2*, or* 3* to check a function.

*1 *outside / inside temperature works fine.

* 2 *battery check, press once and it`s for the leisure batteries and shows resting volts and charging volts when on EHU but stays on resting volts when the engine is running, press again and it`s for the engine battery works fine and show resting volts or charging volts when on EHU or engine running.

*3* water tanks and has not worked properly since we bought the motorhome and i gave up taking in back in to get fixed. normally showing 100%

*4* outside light is only turned on when needed, works fine.

*6* water pump and* 7* interior lights are left turned on all of the time, works fine.

*5* panel on / off and speaks for itself.

In the coming up 13 years we`ve owned the motorhome from new the electrics ( apart from the water tank levels ) have worked perfectly.


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## mfw (Oct 23, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> It seems to be intermittant, the 2 symbols i`ve lost are *9, Battery Parallel* and *12, Alternator charging *when the engine is running.
> 
> *View attachment 88307*
> 
> ...


If it has an internal clock within the control panel ( which your instructions reference ) how does it keep the time without being continually powered up if there is no internal battery for control panel - and i am just asking the question no more than that


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 23, 2020)

There is no mention of a battery in the intructions and i cannot see where a battery could be on the PC-200 contol panel.


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## Fisherman (Oct 23, 2020)

Sorry my idea did not work, it was worth a try.

Hope you get this sorted soon.


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 23, 2020)

Taken from the PC-200 user manual.

Quote :-

*Note - 
The watch is supplied from the leisure battery.
Should the leisure battery be disconnected the watch is able to keep working without visualization for about 2 weeks*.


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## mfw (Oct 23, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> Taken from the PC-200 user manual.
> 
> Quote :-
> 
> ...


Dont know how it powers the internal clock but looking at the back of board on the internet cant see battery either - if you can get onto one of the european forums using google translate you might find something in there which might help if i can find something i'll put it on here for you


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## mistericeman (Oct 23, 2020)

mfw said:


> Dont know how it powers the internal clock but looking at the back of board on the internet cant see battery either - if you can get onto one of the european forums using google translate you might find something in there which might help if i can find something i'll put it on here for you



Probably a capacitor that's mounted on the board


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## AllanD (Oct 23, 2020)

Hi Wooie,

On a van I had a few years back (Fiat Ducato PVC) There was a D+ relay and a Battery Auto relay positioned near the bottom of the drivers side B pillar according to a drawing I had for the electrical system. I never saw them, just spotted this when troubleshooting something else, so don't know what covers needed to be removed for access. I suspect the plastic cover at the bottom of the B pillar or the cover within the footwell will need taking off, might be worth a look.

Hope this helps.


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 23, 2020)

Thank you everyone for the help and now Apuljack Engineering have replied to my email.

They agree it more than likely a problem with the split charge relay circuits given the detailed problems i have given them.

They are offering a repair for a fixed price with 12 months warranty

Quote :-

*We offer a fixed price repair service for these items, for £220 (exVAT and shipping). This cost includes all spares and labour to fully investigate all faults with the system, repair the faults and then test the system to confirm all is working as it should. Work will take approximately 1-2 weeks to complete and is covered by a 12 month warranty. *

I`ll see what the mobile electrician says next week then take it from there.


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## wildebus (Oct 23, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> Thank you everyone for the help and now Apuljack Engineering have replred to my email.
> 
> They agree it more than likely a problem with the split charge relay circuits given the detailed problems i have given them.
> 
> ...


One thing I would want to know ... Does the 12 Month Warranty cover just the repair they do (so if the same fault reoccurs)? Or does the £220 (+VAT and shipping) you pay cover a general health check on the unit and a full warranty of the entire unit?

The cost at £264 is not inconsiderable.  I don't know if that unit is much more complicated than a typical Sargent Power Supply Distribution unit for example? 
Those can be sent back to Sargent for a a fixed price repair of £145 (inc VAT). That seems a much more reasonable kind of price and along the lines of what I would have expected.
Hopefully the chap who comes round next week can sort it out as it sounds like it needs a fivers worth of parts and 5 minutes with a soldering iron.


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## mfw (Oct 23, 2020)

If your price is right for the fuseboard on earlier post it would be cheaper to buy a new one and keep the old one for spares


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 30, 2020)

The guy who came to look at it basically didn`t know hios arse from his elbow and i told him as much so off he went without payment.

The link in my post #6 although it looks the same isn`t, mine has a model number of 20518 and has 16 fuses in it and the one in the link has a model number 20510 and only has 15 fuses in it and they are in a different postion to mine so clearly the multi-plugs will not match up either.

The whole DS520 distribution board and the PC-200 control panel has now been removed and will be sent to Apuljack Engineering for refurbishment.

Once back i`ll report on how things went and the final price although they have said it is a fixed price fix    ...................  we`ll see as i have an email confirming the price.


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## wildebus (Oct 30, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> The guy who came to look at it basically didn`t know hios arse from his elbow and i told him as much so off he went without payment.
> 
> The link in my post #6 although it looks the same isn`t, mine has a model number of 20518 and has 16 fuses in it and the one in the link has a model number 20510 and only has 15 fuses in it and they are in a different postion to mine so clearly the multi-plugs will not match up either.
> 
> ...


Put little dabs of tippex on the various components just to see out of curiosity what they replace.  Would be interesting if more than that one black square component gets changed


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 30, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Put little dabs of tippex on the various components just to see out of curiosity what they replace.  Would be interesting if more than that one black square component gets changed




Already thought of that Boss          me being the suspicious, trust no one type of person 

If the one in the link i put on was the right one £176.15 + P&P is a damned sight cheaper that the thick end of £300 all in that this is going to cost


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## mfw (Oct 31, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> Already thought of that Boss          me being the suspicious, trust no one type of person
> 
> If the one in the link i put on was the right one £176.15 + P&P is a damned sight cheaper that the thick end of £300 all in that this is going to cost


You may have got VAT to go on that price

They repair whatever is needed and give a years warranty pretty sure it covers other parts if not replaced within the year anyway

You will probably find they want the distribution board and the control unit - that is what happened when i sent my cbe bits off for repair


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 31, 2020)

mfw said:


> You may have got VAT to go on that price
> 
> They repair whatever is needed and give a years warranty pretty sure it covers other parts if not replaced within the year anyway
> 
> You will probably find they want the distribution board and the control unit - that is what happened when i sent my cbe bits off for repair




See my post *#33*


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## mfw (Oct 31, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> See my post *#33*


Ok must be old age


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## Wooie1958 (Oct 31, 2020)

mfw said:


> Ok must be old age




No problem


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 23, 2020)

*Update :-*

It`s 3 weeks today since they received my items for repair and i `ve just rung them up to check progress and amazingly the engineer has just started work on it today.

So, please be aware that if you want a speedy repair done you have to pay a premium of  " £50 + VAT " for the " Fast Track Service " that they offer then you get a 2 - 3 day turn around.

I didn`t pay because it`s costing the thick end of £300 when you add VAT to the Fixed Price Repair of £220 and then the return postage is extra


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 24, 2020)

Got another phone call at 5.55pm last night to say the engineer had fixed it so after another quick check this morning it`ll be ready for shipping back to me.

Obviously that`ll be after i`ve re-mortgaged and paid the bill which will be sent by email


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2020)

Thank heavens for a simple self build.


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## wildebus (Nov 24, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Thank heavens for a simple self build.


So do I "like" that comment as I have a self-build?  Or do I "cry" as I have a Motorhome?

stop confusing me!


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 24, 2020)

£281.40 including fully insured return P&P.


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 28, 2020)

They have arrived back and to be honest i cannot for the life of me see what they`ve done     

I`ve removed both PCB`s from the DS520 box and the PC200 panel to see the reverse sides where all the soldered joints are and they all look exactly the same.

No sign what so ever of any new solder and definitely no new items on either PCB.

The email invoice i received just said " Repair and Upgrade of DS520 and PC200 " with no mention of what the problem was or any individual parts fitted, maybe because it was a  " Guaranteed Fixed Price Repair "

It`s bloody freezing up here now so i`m not even going to attempt to refit them yet although tomorrow is forecast warmer.

I`ll report back when fitted how it`s gone.


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## mfw (Nov 28, 2020)

Does it matter really what they have done as long as it is repaired and works properly with a warranty as well - part probably only cost pence anyway


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## wildebus (Nov 28, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> They have arrived back and to be honest i cannot for the life of me see what they`ve done
> 
> I`ve removed both PCB`s from the DS520 box and the PC200 panel to see the reverse sides where all the soldered joints are and they all look exactly the same.
> 
> ...


did you not make little marks on the components to see which got replaced?

Ref solder, you don't actually see it done very often, but it used to be the case where the boards were 'washed' with a cleaner to remove flux residues and the like after being worked on and that dulled down any fresh solder so hard to spot reworking.


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 29, 2020)

wildebus said:


> did you not make little marks on the components to see which got replaced?
> 
> Ref solder, you don't actually see it done very often, but it used to be the case where the boards were 'washed' with a cleaner to remove flux residues and the like after being worked on and that dulled down any fresh solder so hard to spot reworking.



Yes and the marks are still there, i didn`t know they did that to the boards after repairs.

i`m ok with fairly basic electrics but when it comes to removing / adding componants to the PCB`s i`ll leave it to the experts thank you very much.

Very very cold and still damned raining here so i probably won`t get it fitted back in today either because putting heating into the motorhome will mean having to having something open and running an extension so the fan heater will work.

It`s awkward enough where it`s fitted and there`s no give on the cabling which will be very stiff due to the cold weather, the 3 bolt connections for the main cabling to and from the PCB are hidden by the spagetti tangle so they are fitted blind by feel and i can just about get a stubby 10mm spanner up and behind it to tighten them back up without the added problem of numb fingers.

It`s almost like Compass pulled all the wiring tight before doing the final connections as i found out when replacing the outside EHU socket a few years back when the sprung flap cover broke off  ........   i`ll just pop a new one on i thought, 10 - 15 minutes, what can go wrong     ................................     famous last words     

I took the 4 screws out from outside but the socket wouldn`t come more than 2 or 3mm away from the body as if something on the inside was holding it back.

I ended up taking the whole fridge out and dismantling half the bloody kitchen units, that`s when i saw how much tension was on the main EHU cable from the back of the socket to the main taped up wiring loom and was trapped behind the cupboard next to the fridge and had a staple in it.

I replaced it with the same 3 core 2.5mm2 cable that was already on it but gave myself and extra 200mm or so to play with so that if i needed to replace the outside EHU socket again i could do so purely from outside which would then take  the 10 - 15 minutes i originally thought.


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## wildebus (Nov 29, 2020)

The wiring can be very awkward to refit . On my system, I literally have to use a mirror to see behind a panel and a pair of pliers to hold a connector to push in into place. A right PITA!

Ref the cleaning ... People used to do that when board repairs were routinely carried out in a repair shop rather than just thrown away as new ones were so cheap (when I was a bench engineer though, I didn't clean solder up as didn't even use solder!  I used to have to repair wire-wrap boards (they pre-dated printed circuit boards and still used into the 80's))


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## yeoblade (Nov 29, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> Yes and the marks are still there, i didn`t know they did that to the boards after repairs.
> 
> i`m ok with fairly basic electrics but when it comes to removing / adding componants to the PCB`s i`ll leave it to the experts thank you very much.
> 
> ...


I know your pain, it's not just Compass, I bought new replacement original LED front and rear roof level side markers(fitted with flying leads) as some of the individual LEDs had failed. Expected a few minute job, undid the 2 external mounting screws and there was Zero free play in the loom. Pull as hard as I dared but no free cable. Gave up in the end as to get to the inside involved stripping out wall panelling.


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 29, 2020)

yeoblade said:


> I know your pain, it's not just Compass, I bought new replacement original LED front and rear roof level side markers(fitted with flying leads) as some of the individual LEDs had failed. Expected a few minute job, undid the 2 external mounting screws and there was Zero free play in the loom. Pull as hard as I dared but no free cable. Gave up in the end as to get to the inside involved stripping out wall panelling.



The cable between the EHU socket at the rear of the fridge and the main wiring loom where it was trapped behind the cupboard next to the fridge was actaully suspended in mid air it was that tight     

How the hell it didn`t pull out of the back of the socket in the 9 years we`ve had it from new before the outside flap failed beats me


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## harrow (Nov 29, 2020)

Wooie1958 said:


> The cable between the EHU socket at the rear of the fridge and the main wiring loom where it was trapped behind the cupboard next to the fridge was actaully suspended in mid air it was that tight
> 
> How the hell it didn`t pull out of the back of the socket in the 9 years we`ve had it from new before the outside flap failed beats me



I guess they pull the cables tight to save money.

I knew a main dealer mechanic who used to do the same with engine oil, what he did not use he took home.

I always leave some slack cable so I have a chance to re-terminate the cable ends.


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 29, 2020)

harrow said:


> I guess they pull the cables tight to save money.
> 
> I knew a main dealer mechanic who used to do the same with engine oil, what he did not use he took home.
> 
> I always leave some slack cable so I have a chance to re-terminate the cable ends.




I agree a few inches here and there times the hundreds / thousands of motorhomes and caravans they make will add up to a considerable amount.

I also knew a mechanic that did the same, a litre here, a litre there all adds up, the customer paid for say a 5L container even it it only needed 3.5L or 4L.

What ever was left went home with him each night and he had a massive cupboard in his garage at home where he kept all the left over oil once he`d drained like for like to top up the containers which he would sell to neighbours at half price.


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 30, 2020)

All fitted back in and everything works perfectly again.

I spoke to Ross from Apuljack Engineering this morning when he rang me to see how it was going so i asked him what they`d done  ?

He read the engineers report and said it looked like there`d been a surge from the alternator that has blown a resistor in the battery parallel / split replay circuit.

I have checked the alternator and it working fine giving a healthy and steady 14.46v to the distribution board

I explained i first noticed a problem whilst on EHU when all of a sudden the EHU symbol vanished from the control panel, it was definitiely on when we pitched up because it`s the first thing i check after conecting the EHU lead.

Strangely though the electric fan heater was still running but i still turned the charger off and back on again which put the symbol back on the control panel and i thought that was that but clearly now i know it wasn`t right.

Coincidentally just after i noticed that the EHU symbol had gone out  i saw the CAMC site warden walking past with the EHU testing unit obviously going to another pitch.

Anyway all systems are go,  so bugger off You Naughty Virus then we can go away again


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