# Vehicle Tax



## insignia (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi All
As of the 1st October it will no longer a requirement to display a tax disc on your vehicle and from the 1st November you will not be able to sell or buy a vehicle Taxed. As of the 1st November automatic refunds will occur when you notify DVLA that you have sold or disposed of the vehicle, you will also be able to pay by direct debit either  12mth. 6mth. or monthly.
What do you people think of this governments latest move.


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## Deleted member 13867 (Aug 30, 2014)

Personally i think this is a very poor decision and will leave the whole system wide open to abuse. It will be possible for example to have two or more identical cars with the same number plates and only tax one. in the past you would not have a suitable disk to display on the clone cars now it wont matter they will to all intents and purposes be the same car. Or of course someone with the same make and model as yours can change the number plates and be almost untouchable as there is no visual indicator that this is not the correct car.
Dave


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## landyrubbertramp (Aug 30, 2014)

Two good points Dave unless of course they check vin and chassis plate


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## Deleted member 13867 (Aug 30, 2014)

landyrubbertramp said:


> Two good points Dave unless of course they check vin and chassis plate


Yes that's true however for the vast majority of motoring offences  Parking, Speeding, Congestion charge and the like they only bother with number plates.


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## insignia (Aug 30, 2014)

Hi
Yes good points raised over the criminal element but for some of us motor homers that only use for the odd few weeks a year it will be possible to tax and sorn online so saving some pennies and at the same time the bother of claiming a refund. So if you go away in march to spain  lets say and going to stay six months then you tax it to leave the country and then sorn it whilst in spain then tax it upon your return. 
the mind boggles with all the scenarios that this may pose


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## vwalan (Aug 30, 2014)

go to spain for 6 months in march?
far better to go end of november . 
why stay here in the lovely uk winter .


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## vwalan (Aug 30, 2014)

spanish police can trace your vehicle and see if its taxed ,motted or insured . believe me . they have for awhile . many vehicles get lifted in spain . been going on for the past 6 years that i know of .


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## molly 2 (Aug 30, 2014)

I expect you will only get a full months tax rebate, dose it mean that dvla would get tax twice,


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## vwalan (Aug 30, 2014)

yes they could end up with two months tax for every car thats sold .


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## snowbirds (Aug 30, 2014)

*A lot of time on their hands*

They will have to find a lot of extra work for traffic wardens police officers and support teams that spent their life looking for an ease nick and endless form filling.Put the tax on Fuel and then if you use the roads more you pay more.

Snowbirds.:rolleyes2::rolleyes2::cool1::cool1:


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## Polar Bear (Aug 30, 2014)

If you sell your car on the 3rd of the May. You will not get that month back! 

The person that buys your car will have to tax from the first on May so the DVLA will get an extra months tax on every car sold. 

How many cars sold each year???

As for putting an extra tax on fuel to replace car tax.

Fuel already has a huge tax element on it. That tax element and the cost of the fuel is also subject to VAT. 

So we pay Vat on tax??? :sucks:  But good business model.


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## Mullsy (Aug 30, 2014)

Polar Bear said:


> If you sell your car on the 3rd of the May. You will not get that month back!
> 
> The person that buys your car will have to tax from the first on May so the DVLA will get an extra months tax on every car sold.
> 
> ...



Don't you also pay VAT on your IPT or is that added after the VAT?  Ripper either way


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## iveco4x4 (Aug 30, 2014)

insignia said:


> Hi
> Yes good points raised over the criminal element but for some of us motor homers that only use for the odd few weeks a year it will be possible to tax and sorn online so saving some pennies and at the same time the bother of claiming a refund. So if you go away in march to spain  lets say and going to stay six months then you tax it to leave the country and then sorn it whilst in spain then tax it upon your return.
> the mind boggles with all the scenarios that this may pose



It would also probably void your insurance as well. My understanding of eropean motoring is the vehicle mst be road legal in its country of origin so that means its taxed.

I do know of people who do drive vehicles while on SORN but they are far far away from europe and this is the only way they can do it, of course south american police have no clue about what is legal or not in europe so it doesn't matter - I guess Tony who posts here and has been driving an old Iveco around South America did just that.

Rich


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2014)

landyrubbertramp said:


> Two good points Dave unless of course they check vin and chassis plate



can speed cameras do this,but they could read a tax disc.and why dident they just put it on fuel anyway,another piss by gov.


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## vwalan (Aug 30, 2014)

trevskoda said:


> can speed cameras do this,but they could read a tax disc.and why dident they just put it on fuel anyway,another piss by gov.



link a camera into a computer and you have it all . there is a link a mate once showed me where we can see if a car is taxed . its open to all to see. but i lost it when changing computers awhile ago. 
dvla site i think you can check.


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## gid7 (Aug 30, 2014)

vwalan said:


> there is a link a mate once showed me where we can see if a car is taxed . its open to all to see. but i lost it when changing computers awhile ago.
> dvla site i think you can check.



Here is the link:
https://www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/


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## runnach (Aug 30, 2014)

Cloning a vehicle is interesting, tax and mot possible the gov is relying on ANPR, slight snag getting number plates made you need the v5 but screwed not riveted with a drill soon away.(On the donor car) 

Foreign trucks for years have fitted extended tanks so in theory use our roads gratuit. Most of the autoroutes in france as an example are peage so you pay!!! a trip to the south and back is equivalent to a years road tax here on a modest car, we have good value in that context.

Add the duty to fuel would be far easier , pay as you go as someone else mentioned. the ANPRS would then only have to catch those not insured and mot'd

Channa


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## blackbird100 (Aug 30, 2014)

*pot office//*

Does that also mean you can no longer tax at the post office, Tough luck if you don't own a bank account,


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## jeffscarborough (Aug 30, 2014)

channa said:


> Cloning a vehicle is interesting, tax and mot possible the gov is relying on ANPR, slight snag getting number plates made you need the v5 but screwed not riveted with a drill soon away.(On the donor car)
> 
> Foreign trucks for years have fitted extended tanks so in theory use our roads gratuit. Most of the autoroutes in france as an example are peage so you pay!!! a trip to the south and back is equivalent to a years road tax here on a modest car, we have good value in that context.
> 
> ...



Try 'number plates' in ebay. not a problem


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2014)

vwalan said:


> link a camera into a computer and you have it all . there is a link a mate once showed me where we can see if a car is taxed . its open to all to see. but i lost it when changing computers awhile ago.
> dvla site i think you can check.



yes but if someone cloned your veh then with out a visable tax disc you will be hammered.


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2014)

jeffscarborough said:


> Try 'number plates' in ebay. not a problem



i think the plod are closing in on this,seen it on tv fake britain.


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## vwalan (Aug 30, 2014)

trevskoda said:


> yes but if someone cloned your veh then with out a visable tax disc you will be hammered.



there will be no tax discs soon thats what this thread is really about .
if we can find out if a car is taxed so can foreign plod .


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## dydigital (Aug 31, 2014)

I think its unfair to charge both the seller and the buyer of a car for the same month, but in practice it won't matter just don't tax it till the end of the first month as your not really breaking the law as the car had valid tax for that month and is not sorn.


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## Deleted member 775 (Aug 31, 2014)

i think its a good idea being able to tax your car monthly ok dvla are going to make millions of extra quid probably at our expense .now we can sell a car with tax makes it a little more attractive to the buyer saves him laying out over a hundred quid extra when he has bought his car and the seller has probably made a couple of quid extra on the sale ,as its easier to sell a taxed car than one without ..as for loosing money we always loose money if we declare our tax disc in if its mid month and always loose money if we tax a car mid month so no change there . it will benefit the driver that only uses his motor every now and again like motor homes  you will be able to tax the thing as and when .a month here another month there leave it for 5 months and then tax again .so realy i think its a good idea . also helps people budget better if there on a tight income .ok dvla are mabey going to benefit greatly again out of our pockets ,but whats new there .


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## Sharon the Cat (Aug 31, 2014)

We bought Percy on the 29th of the month and had to tax from the 1st of that month. Next year we might decide to leave him outside the house and get the month back, so to speak.


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## runnach (Aug 31, 2014)

This is going to be the second biggest dupe of all time.

Millions of extra revenue will be collected with the part month surrender scenario already mentioned.

Remember when fuel stopped being sold in gallons and changed to litres. a 2 p increase per litre doesnt sound much but is 9 p a gallon. !

They will do the same with this, fiver a month here and there. multiplied out over the year another cash cow ...you watch !!!

Channa


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## Deleted member 967 (Aug 31, 2014)

When I ran a motorbike in the 1960 it was proposed to abolish road tax.  Fuel went up 3p per gallon (3s&3p to 3s&6p) for the tax.  The road tax was supposed to be abolished the next budget.  It wasn't, but was increased, and the fuel tax remained and has increased since then.

At that time a local County Durham garage owner bought a new car.  He went out to serve an identical car at the pump.  Yes, identical both, make, model and colour and each had the same registration plate.  He took pictures of them, side by side and it was in the local papers.   That was before DVLA when county councils administered vehicle licencing.   

I think the new system will pick up more untaxed vehicles, as I have noticed more roadside number recognition DVLA camera vehicles in laybys over the last few months.   Foreign Trucks are now being charged a fee at the borders.  There was an article in the Dover Post stating how much revenue had been collected recently.


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## insignia (Aug 31, 2014)

All valid point depending on how you look at this, and yes a vehicle is still taxed when you sell it until DVLA receive the old owners notification that he has sold it and it is at that point that  the vehicle becomes untaxed. So when you sell your pride and joy lets say 10th of the month it is still taxed, you send log bood to DVLA on the 11th ( because you are a good citizen ) DVLA receive log book on the 12th process it on the 13th the said vehicle becomes untaxed on the 13th. Or are you going to be a nice seller and not tell DVLA untill last day of month so by the time DVLA get the log book and process it you as the seller loose another month. Which ever way DVLA get paid twice for one month

IT IS NO LONGER VEHICLE TAX IT'S OWNERSHIP TAX


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## Polar Bear (Aug 31, 2014)

I think the main reason that the road tax disk is stopped being allowed to be transferred is to ensure that the new owner has to insure the vehicle before they can get it taxed.
This is the only good thing that comes from this legislation. 

Just a quick thought.

Joe lives in Devon and his brother Jim lives in Durham and they both have 2012 black Audi A5s. If both cars have the same reg number and Jim spends £10.00 on a duplicate vin plate for his to match Joes, put his reg on SORN and both men are named on the insurance = [1 road tax, 1MOT and 1 insurance premium] unless they visit each other, how's that going to be policed?


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## vwalan (Aug 31, 2014)

it cant be policed properly . its just like most of authority rules and changes . they are made by humans . humans cant really sort things out . we arent smart enough . 
almost every rule or law as a get out . thats part of the fun . you have toi find the secret get out . 
by the way many vehicles dont need mot. road tax can be free . you just have to get the right set up. 
after all they make the rules all we have to do is abide by them . that includes using the get outs its allowed.


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## Polar Bear (Aug 31, 2014)

Sorry, maybe I did not make my comment clear. 

The DVLA will not let the new owner have road tax without current insurance.  

All insurance companies have run the MID Motor Insurance Database for many years now.

I've been updating my own vehicles on the MID for at least five years.


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## vwalan (Aug 31, 2014)

but they dont now . so nothing changed their . 
plus as of a couple of years ago even if the vehicle is taxed and your insurance allowed you to drive someone elses vehicle you couldnt unless they had it insured .


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## Polar Bear (Aug 31, 2014)

vwalan said:


> but they dont now . so nothing changed their .
> as of a couple of years ago even if the vehicle is taxed and your insurance allowed you to drive someone elses vehicle you couldnt unless they had it insured .



A problem with selling a car with tax on it is that there is no sure way of making the new owner buy insurance. 

Some people do fill in the V5 properly and send it off but may have been given a false address.

If one was inclined, buy a car for a few quid with a bit of tax, run it till the tax runs out and then sell it for scrap. Maybe getting most or all your money back.


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## vindiboy (Aug 31, 2014)

As I have just sold and bought another car I have been reading the blurb from the dvla and read that after the change to no tax discs,if you buy a vehicle you can not even driive it home untill you have paid dvla for new tax even if the vehicle has current tax on it.the dvla will refund unused months tax to the previous owner on issue of new V5 to the new owner.


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## izwozral (Sep 1, 2014)

So, if I buy a 2nd hand car, the seller sends the paperwork off to DVLA at which point DVLA cancel the tax upon receipt of said paperwork?

Am I ok to drive the car up until the point that the DVLA receives the paperwork & cancels the tax?

How will I know when DVLA has received the paperwork?

Will DVLA send me a form saying I need to tax the car & up until that point I am legally allowed to drive the car?

Is there a a period between the tax being cancelled & new tax purchased where I could be driving illegally?


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## maxi77 (Sep 1, 2014)

izwozral said:


> So, if I buy a 2nd hand car, the seller sends the paperwork off to DVLA at which point DVLA cancel the tax upon receipt of said paperwork?
> 
> Am I ok to drive the car up until the point that the DVLA receives the paperwork & cancels the tax?
> 
> ...




Many dealers have effectively been enforcing this for years, they cash in the tax on any vehicle traded in immediately and arrange new tax when it is bought. One decent dealer actually gave me the tax disc when I traded in a car as a little extra discount. 

As you can pay instantly on line, just as you can get insurance on line it should really present few problems and may force a few more miscreants to insure their cars at least for a month or so.


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## vwalan (Sep 1, 2014)

you can drive without tax disc or tax for 5 days so long as you have applied . these days a phone call or internet takes seconds . so off you go. mind getting insurance that fast might be the problem .


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## maxi77 (Sep 1, 2014)

vwalan said:


> you can drive without tax disc or tax for 5 days so long as you have applied . these days a phone call or internet takes seconds . so off you go. mind getting insurance that fast might be the problem .



I think you have to have paid, just saying the cheque is in the post is unlikelyto work.


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## Polar Bear (Sep 1, 2014)

vindiboy said:


> As I have just sold and bought another car I have been reading the blurb from the dvla and read that after the change to no tax discs,if you buy a vehicle you can not even driive it home untill you have paid dvla for new tax even if the vehicle has current tax on it.the dvla will refund unused months tax to the previous owner on issue of new V5 to the new owner.



You couldn't drive it home anyway unless you insure it at the venders or you have trade plates. The seller will be surrendering his insurance and or more probably transferring it onto his new vehicle thus uninsured vehicle tax is invalid. If you do insure it at source of purchase I don't think your drive home will take longer than the V5 getting to the DVLA. you cannot buy 'new' TAX in your name until the old tax has been cancelled by DVLA and some people scuffed Orwell?

I wonder if the law that states 'it is an offence not to display a current tax disc in the bottom left corner of windscreen' has been repealed?


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## Devadave (Sep 1, 2014)

The fuel is already heavily taxed, the road tax is a tax, the mot is a tax everything that you buy or need to buy is taxed... however I believe the only fair transport way is a fuel tax, I use a company car and do high miles and pay high fuel bills, but I get really miffed and jealous when I go to Europe and see how much cheaper the diesel is compared to unleaded. Why do we pay more for diesel... because that is the fuel that most transport companies use, hence higher tax revenue!
But im also old enough to relize the only way to avoid it is 1) ride a push bike 2) don't go anywhere  3) don't buy anything or 4) just roll over and die :idea:


I fill up in Europe and just enjoy the moment!:banana::drive::drive: now can I have my padded room back?:raofl:


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## vwalan (Sep 1, 2014)

maxi77 said:


> I think you have to have paid, just saying the cheque is in the post is unlikelyto work.



these days when you ring dvla  or use internet they taske the money from your cc or dc . payed .
it can be done 24 hrs a day . insurance is the harder one to get . ok from a dealer they may issue a certificate if they do insurance many dont . but private you can ring and transfer insurance but how quick that would get on the mib computer for getting tax i dont know .
have to wait and see might be total change of every thing soon .
mind dont sell or buy a new vehicle no problem .


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## Polar Bear (Sep 1, 2014)

Lets not forget that the biggest users of diesel are business's and they get the VAT back on all the fuel they buy and it is tax deductible?


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## DumnoniiNomad (Sep 1, 2014)

*Built in incompetence!*

Simple question:
Why are we not taxed by the day? It's all computerized, so what's the issue?
We're taking in months because 12 tax discs each year were issued showing month end, but that's no longer necessary.


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## Polar Bear (Sep 1, 2014)

Sorry.
I thought we were talking about putting more tax on fuel to cover the 'road tax' element as big users of fuel will then pay more? 
My mistake.


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## Polar Bear (Sep 1, 2014)

Sorry but I thought that you thought I had not thought it through? I did think I'd have a beer :beer: and then thought it was taxed so much.


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## maxi77 (Sep 1, 2014)

vwalan said:


> these days when you ring dvla  or use internet they taske the money from your cc or dc . payed .
> it can be done 24 hrs a day . insurance is the harder one to get . ok from a dealer they may issue a certificate if they do insurance many dont . but private you can ring and transfer insurance but how quick that would get on the mib computer for getting tax i dont know .
> have to wait and see might be total change of every thing soon .
> mind dont sell or buy a new vehicle no problem .



Well aware of the fact you can pay online, that's the way I usually do it, works great from abroad. Equally it is quite easy to sort out insurance on line, or on the phone. This year we transferred the van insurance from one company to another on line whilst in Portugal.


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## vwalan (Sep 1, 2014)

maxi77 said:


> Well aware of the fact you can pay online, that's the way I usually do it, works great from abroad. Equally it is quite easy to sort out insurance on line, or on the phone. This year we transferred the van insurance from one company to another on line whilst in Portugal.



yes but it might be more difficult to get a new vehicle insured and taxed in one day and drive it home . mind most dont worry about it even now.


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## jenks (Sep 3, 2014)

I don't think it's going to change much to be honest. On the whole this conversation has been directed by law abiding citizens who can't see past the law.... Think like a criminal....

Dodgy plates are exceedingly easy to make, in the underworld of car crime cloning is very very easy. The biggest problem is ANPR records being automatically checked, so if a certain car was spotted in leeds at 13:15 travelling north but at 14:20 the same reg was spotted in Hastings traveling east that reg will get flagged. This practice is already happening, however it's not stopping cars from being cloned. My friend had her car cloned and she was herded off the M6 by armed response units. All they could do was check the vin, chassis, engine, gearbox numbers, prove she had the V5 and a sales receipt for it and sent her on her way. No guarantee's the other car is still on her plates for more than a couple of days / weeks, thus enabling the crooks to parade about in a stolen BMW X6....

A lot of people already buy cars and drive them home without the correct insurance mot / tax I really can't see that changing.


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## maxi77 (Sep 3, 2014)

I agree, but the fact they can do this is surely down to the reality that the systems are in place that make paper un-necessary and dear old Mr Plod has adequate resources to access the data without recourse to paper thus making it a lot easier to identify and arrest vehicles without tax, insurance , or MOT. In Portugal where I spend a lot of time all vehicle checks are done with paper and you must have all of it in original form in the car with you at all times


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## trevskoda (Sep 3, 2014)

vwalan said:


> but they dont now . so nothing changed their .
> plus as of a couple of years ago even if the vehicle is taxed and your insurance allowed you to drive someone elses vehicle you couldnt unless they had it insured .



yes my old boy told me this as he was high up in the pru,but my argument is how come in the motor trade you could drive any car even if it not got its owen ins?.and if its the driver that is insured why do ins co need to know what car your driving third party.i once asked my ins co this and there reply was that it was the car that the insurence was leved on,so i replyed so its the car that gets dun for speeding not the driver then.i think they make it up as they go along.


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## trevskoda (Sep 3, 2014)

Polar Bear said:


> A problem with selling a car with tax on it is that there is no sure way of making the new owner buy insurance.
> 
> Some people do fill in the V5 properly and send it off but may have been given a false address.
> 
> If one was inclined, buy a car for a few quid with a bit of tax, run it till the tax runs out and then sell it for scrap. Maybe getting most or all your money back.



this happened to me once and the new owner crashed and plod came after me,i found out later from dvla that even if you post in new owenership in law you are the owner until you receive conformation letter back from them,so i always took details from new owner drove to tax office handed over paperwork and got receit before handing vh to new owner,and on inspection its in the small print somewhere at the bottom of back page.why not put on fuel and just have a regastration fee at post office where both parties could go down to post ofice or internet and exchange details and a secure code for a fee of £25 say which would be instant change over to new owner.


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## trevskoda (Sep 3, 2014)

vwalan said:


> you can drive without tax disc or tax for 5 days so long as you have applied . these days a phone call or internet takes seconds . so off you go. mind getting insurance that fast might be the problem .



no you cant drive without a tax disc for 5 days even if your retaxing as i found out as its a ofence not to display,i had just got my new disc from mallymena tax office put it on seat beside me and was driving home when pulled by piggys because it was not desplayed ( separate offence) £30 bucks fine for me.so thats one good thing to come out of new sys no more of that daft sh_t.


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## vwalan (Sep 3, 2014)

if you actually goto court they will drop the charge .


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 4, 2014)

i carry all my doc ,always have done  saves time and another thing ,i dont trust data bases . i like to be able to prove  everything is legal


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## Deleted member 967 (Sep 7, 2014)

Being full times we carry our docs at all times.  We keep originals in a safe place but have copies available easily.


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## Deleted member 967 (Sep 7, 2014)

trevskoda said:


> no you cant drive without a tax disc for 5 days even if your retaxing as i found out as its a ofence not to display,i had just got my new disc from mallymena tax office put it on seat beside me and was driving home when pulled by piggys because it was not desplayed ( separate offence) £30 bucks fine for me.so thats one good thing to come out of new sys no more of that daft sh_t.



I learned this back in the 1960s  I needed a new tax disk holder so put the disk on the dashboard while I went into a garage to buy a new holder.  Policeman waiting on garage forecourt told me that even leaving the disk flat on the dash was not sufficient.  I received an official caution for failure to display.   I haven't seen anything official yet about removing the failure to display regulation, although the new reminders say you will not now receive a disk.


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## piman (Sep 7, 2014)

Hello all, 

it is a very poor scheme with the driving force in saving the revenue some money, but apart from the clearly unfair double tax  or nearly that every time a vehicle is sold there is, apparently, a great problem for motor traders as cars bought in for resale will require taxing so that potential buyers can drive them, which means registration by the trader to tax it. Basically a can of worms.

The often proposed 'scrap the tax and add it to fuel' argument will adversely affect business so adding an extra cost to an already very high one which just puts up the cost of all products, so we all suffer.

Alec


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## munion (Sep 7, 2014)

*More and more control less and less freedom*

Obviously the govt or whatever enforcing body now feel confident enough the the national (international) surveillance system that they can offer us sheep this 'improvement' of not displaying tax disc.  There will be no bucking the system as the noose tightens.  You can be dead sure that whatever so called improvement are offered, or rather handed down, benefit the controllers and not the people.  already taxed to the hilt for energy, fuel and air (carbon tax) water is  on the agenda as the next big thing for the greedy ones.


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## Polar Bear (Sep 7, 2014)

piman said:


> Hello all,
> 
> it is a very poor scheme with the driving force in saving the revenue some money, but apart from the clearly unfair double tax  or nearly that every time a vehicle is sold there is, apparently, a great problem for motor traders as cars bought in for resale will require taxing so that potential buyers can drive them, which means registration by the trader to tax it. Basically a can of worms.
> 
> ...



Hi. Car traders buy a yearly set of 'Trade plates' a road tax/insurance system, which they can legally drive cars without tax for demonstration purposes.


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## molly 2 (Sep 7, 2014)

Does it mean you will.be able to remove you current tax disc


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## johnmac185 (Sep 7, 2014)

molly 2 said:


> Does it mean you will.be able to remove you current tax disc



From 1st October you should destroy your current tax disc, you will be no longer required to display a disc,,,John


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## John H (Sep 8, 2014)

johnmac185 said:


> From 1st October you should destroy your current tax disc, you will be no longer required to display a disc,,,John



My understanding is that if you have a tax disc then legally you should display it until the time that it expires. On a wider point, I seem to be in the minority in thinking that the change is a good idea - but that may have something to do with the fact that my disc nearly always needs renewing when I am out of the country. It was ok renewing it online but the disc was sent to my home so technically I was driving illegally until I got home, often months later! In this day and age, a piece of paper to stick on your windscreen is a bit anachronistic. Mind you, I think they should do away with the tax altogether - we already pay more tax on fuel than most other mortals!

Just one more point - it was earlier suggested that you could SORN your vehicle whilst in Europe. This is illegal and potentially very dangerous - if you have an accident while the vehicle is SORNed you are not only invalidating your insurance but are immediately open to prosecution. As stated by others, in the EU you have to comply with the tax/insurance rules of your home country - that includes having a valid road tax.


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## johnmac185 (Sep 8, 2014)

John H said:


> My understanding is that if you have a tax disc then legally you should display it until the time that it expires. On a wider point, I seem to be in the minority in thinking that the change is a good idea - but that may have something to do with the fact that my disc nearly always needs renewing when I am out of the country. It was ok renewing it online but the disc was sent to my home so technically I was driving illegally until I got home, often months later! In this day and age, a piece of paper to stick on your windscreen is a bit anachronistic. Mind you, I think they should do away with the tax altogether - we already pay more tax on fuel than most other mortals!
> 
> Just one more point - it was earlier suggested that you could SORN your vehicle whilst in Europe. This is illegal and potentially very dangerous - if you have an accident while the vehicle is SORNed you are not only invalidating your insurance but are immediately open to prosecution. As stated by others, in the EU you have to comply with the tax/insurance rules of your home country - that includes having a valid road tax.



Hi John, here is extract from DVLA website regarding the above,,,

""From 1 October 2014, the paper tax disc will no longer need to be displayed on a vehicle windscreen. If you have a tax disc with any months left to run after this date, then it can be removed from the vehicle windscreen and destroyed. This includes customers with a Northern Ireland address, however they will still need to display their MoT disc.""

hope this helps all who are in doubt,,John


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## John H (Sep 8, 2014)

johnmac185 said:


> Hi John, here is extract from DVLA website regarding the above,,,
> 
> ""From 1 October 2014, the paper tax disc will no longer need to be displayed on a vehicle windscreen. If you have a tax disc with any months left to run after this date, then it can be removed from the vehicle windscreen and destroyed. This includes customers with a Northern Ireland address, however they will still need to display their MoT disc.""
> 
> hope this helps all who are in doubt,,John



I stand corrected - thanks


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## Polar Bear (Sep 8, 2014)

Vehicle tax changes from 1 October 2014: No more tax disc

DVLA is changing the law to get rid of the need to display a paper tax disc.

From 1 October 2014, the paper tax disc will no longer be issued or required to be displayed on a vehicle windscreen when vehicle excise duty is paid. Tax discs will no longer be available.

The benefits of paper tax discs have become redundant over time as the DVLA and police rely on DVLAs electronic vehicle register to check if a vehicle is taxed.

DVLA will retain digital records of taxed and untaxed vehicles which the police will be able to access.

Another important change is that from 1 October when a vehicle is sold any outstanding tax on it will be refunded to the vendor, leaving the vehicle untaxed. The new owner is responsible for taxing the vehicle immediately.

Below are answers to some of the most commonly asked questions about changes.

1.Who will this apply to?
Everyone who needs to tax their vehicle.

2.Will the police continue to check the tax status of vehicles?
Yes. With no visual check available the police can look up a registration number on the Police National Computer (PNC) system. Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras will also recognize untaxed vehicles.

3.What happens if the police recognise an untaxed vehicle?
The police will inform DVLA, which will issue an enforcement notice to the registered keeper of the vehicle.

4.Will the lack of a tax disc hinder the police in checking the tax status of vehicles?
No. Enhanced IT capabilities more than make up for the loss of the visual check.

5.Will this lead to more people not paying their vehicle tax?
DVLA takes enforcement action directly from the vehicle register. The use of tools like Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras and wheelclamping also enforce more effectively against those who fail to pay their vehicle tax. These enforcement measures have helped to improve compliance and vehicle tax evasion is at a historic low. The latest estimate of vehicle excise duty evasion is just 0.6%. There is no evidence to suggest that getting rid of the paper tax disc will make this increase.

6.Will DVLA or the police allow any grace period after buying a vehicle in which to get it taxed?
No. From 1 October it will no longer be possible to transfer the benefit of vehicle tax to the new keeper when a vehicle is sold and the person buying a vehicle will always need to license it immediately. This provides protection and clarity to motorists of what their responsibility is as it will prevent the new keeper of a vehicle from unknowingly keeping an unlicensed vehicle. There will not be any grace period.

7.How does this work for vehicles that are exempt from payment of vehicle tax, e.g. Disabled tax class?
The requirement to apply for vehicle tax will not change for any individual including those in the Disabled Tax Class. The only change will be that the paper tax disc will no longer be issued and required to be displayed on a vehicle windscreen.

8.Will motorists still get a reminder when the vehicle tax runs out?
Yes. There will be no change to the issue of the Renewal Reminder (V11s and V85/1s).

9.How will I know if a vehicle is taxed?
Any person may check the tax status of any vehicle by using DVLAs Vehicle Enquiry System. The vehicle enquiry system can be accessed by visiting www.vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

10.What if I need a tax disc to get a parking permit/car parking space?
All Local Authorities will be made aware of the change to law where tax discs will no longer be available.

More information is available at www.gov.uk/dvla/nomoretaxdisc


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## Shop Admin (Sep 8, 2014)

*Tax Disc Holders going CHEAP !!*

Anyone want to buy a job lot of Tax Disc holders !!

Tax Disc Holder, Wild Camping Shop

  :mad1:


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## maxi77 (Sep 8, 2014)

One though that crosses my mind is that they have now removed one of the great arguments against doing away with road tax completely and recovering the money from road fuel, namely that the tax disc required documentary proof of insurance and MOT. Now this is all done electronically there is no real need for the tax disc or the tax disc system. Add the tax to road fuel, every one pays and you will still be checking the insurance and MOT through ANPR just as they do today.


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## DTDog (Sep 8, 2014)

maxi77 said:


> One though that crosses my mind is that they have now removed one of the great arguments against doing away with road tax completely and recovering the money from road fuel, namely that the tax disc required documentary proof of insurance and MOT. Now this is all done electronically there is no real need for the tax disc or the tax disc system. Add the tax to road fuel, every one pays and you will still be checking the insurance and MOT through ANPR just as they do today.



Don't be silly ......... What you've done here is applied common sense and we all know this doesn't work when referring to the government!!


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## jenks (Sep 8, 2014)

Shop Admin said:


> Anyone want to buy a job lot of Tax Disc holders !!
> 
> Tax Disc Holder, Wild Camping Shop
> 
> :mad1:



Give them to members so we can put the printed W in them


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## maxi77 (Sep 8, 2014)

DTDog said:


> Don't be silly ......... What you've done here is applied common sense and we all know this doesn't work when referring to the government!!



Oooooh silly me


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## trevskoda (Sep 8, 2014)

Shop Admin said:


> Anyone want to buy a job lot of Tax Disc holders !!
> 
> Tax Disc Holder, Wild Camping Shop
> 
> :mad1:



still of use for your mot disc,or put the price up as they are collectors items now.:lol-049::lol-053:


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## Yogihughes (Sep 8, 2014)

MOT disc??????


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## maxi77 (Sep 8, 2014)

New Rover said:


> MOT disc??????



In Portugal you have an MOT sticker and an insurance sticker on the windscreen thoughh they still wantto see the full documentation when they stop you.


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## trevskoda (Sep 8, 2014)

New Rover said:


> MOT disc??????



yes in n/ireland you have to display a mot disc,all our test stations are gov run so there is no backhanders,the disc is the same size as a tax disc with your reg and pass date plus cert number on it.


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## Polar Bear (Sep 8, 2014)

Shop Admin said:


> Anyone want to buy a job lot of Tax Disc holders !!
> 
> Tax Disc Holder, Wild Camping Shop
> 
> :mad1:



I think they may end up as booby prizes. I've got a load going spare too.


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## vwalan (Sep 8, 2014)

you arent alone i have several car tax holders and a full box of motor bike ones . ha ha .
might find a use for them one day.


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## Yogihughes (Sep 8, 2014)

Thanks for the info on MOT discs.
Am I correct in thinking that UK tested vehicles (NI notwithstanding) do not require these discs as I have travelled through France, Germany, Netherlands and Belgium without one on my windscreen?


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## Polar Bear (Sep 9, 2014)

New Rover said:


> Thanks for the info on MOT discs.
> Am I correct in thinking that UK tested vehicles (NI notwithstanding) do not require these discs as I have travelled through France, Germany, Netherlands and Belgium without one on my windscreen?



Hi.

No MOT disc required  or available in the UK. 

There used to be a sticker on your MOT that was just to remind you when it ran but no longer available since they changed the certificate format.

The MOT is recorded on line now so in effect you don't even need a physical certificate .


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## Yogihughes (Sep 9, 2014)

I suppose that the way things are going, pretty soon we will not have to carry any documents at all in the UK, (or whatever format we head into after18/09/14.
As insurance, MOT, and driving licence information is all readily checked by police stops then I wonder how long it will be before we are all Chipped like our pets with all relevant information required by Big Brother.
Some might say a good thing, but others will be appalled at such an idea.


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## johnmac185 (Sep 9, 2014)

[QUOTE=New Rover;455384]I suppose that the way things are going, pretty soon we will not have to carry any documents at all in the UK, (or whatever format we head into after18/09/14.
As insurance, MOT, and driving licence information is all readily checked by police stops then I wonder how long it will be before we are all Chipped like our pets with all relevant information required by Big Brother.
Some might say a good thing, but others will be appalled at such an idea.[/QUOTE]

hi New Rover, at the moment you don't have to carry any documents in the UK, motoring docs may have to be produced at a police station if the police stop you and are in doubt if you hold any docs at all,,,,John


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## Yogihughes (Sep 9, 2014)

Hi johnmac185.
I know strictly speaking that you do not have to carry any docs with you in the UK at the moment.
Mind you, if on a police stop, you are deemed to be giving false or suspicious information such as id, then I am sure that you could be detained until your identity can be confirmed.
The point I failed to put over I suppose was that maybe in the future we might not require any docs at all but just have all our data on an implanted "chip" and that that could be updated simply by NFC technology as and when required.
I am not saying I would welcome such a measure, but it would go a long way to identify any persons who should not be here.
Anyway, I digress, this thread was about vehicle tax and I apologise to the original poster for going off subject.


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## vwalan (Sep 9, 2014)

the trouble with uk law is you can be arrested under the terrorist acts if you cant show identity . 
but there isnt a law that says we must carry identity . 
best just get arrested and took to a police station . then on a search they find your identity . then they have to let you go. 
wastes their time but at least while doing that they arent annoying other motorists . 
after all you forgot you had it in your pocket . ha ha .


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 9, 2014)

thats fine if you dont mind making your own way back from the cop shop they took you  to from  where you were stopped at 2 am , there could be a difference of 20 miles or more  and they wont give you a lift . just to find that your car or van has been moved to somewhere  else for further enquirers. best just show them what they want ,and then be off on your way in a short time .


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## Yogihughes (Sep 9, 2014)

That's the way I look at it mandrake.
Give the authorities no chance to mess me about.


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## vwalan (Sep 9, 2014)

no mess them around as well its all good fun . 
bit like filling in a form . i might not be able to read and write somedays . specially if at a border post etc .


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## Yogihughes (Sep 9, 2014)

"Not able to read and write Sir!"
Well, in that case, you will not understand our road signs so we will just confiscate your vehicle! LOL!


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## vwalan (Sep 9, 2014)

thats why signs are like they are .pictorial. even the stop sign is that shape virtually world wide . it may stay stop in other languages but the stop sign is special. 
many that cant read and write drive . 
signs are the shape they are as well to give warnings or commands . 
the picture tells the story.


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## Photophil (Sep 11, 2014)

I've just read all this with great interest.....then realised I don't pay road tax on my camper. What a cock!! I'll never get that 20 minutes back it took to read.


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