# Permanent bed v drop down bed - A-class type



## lotusanne (Feb 17, 2017)

Hi all
Much as I love my ancient Autosleeper Ford Legend van layout (2 long settees facing each other and revolving cab seats gives lots of living and entertaining space ) but I am starting to think a permanent bed would be nice in the next van, so have been doing some research.  Don't want anything too long - about 20ft max and want to retain the space and the option of sleeping grandkids, so been looking at some of the smaller A-class with drop down beds, like the Hymer B series or Pilot Galaxy for example, where the bed lowers over the cab seats complete with bedding. Was starting to think that this was the perfect solution - but just been talking to someone who has sold his in favour of a Bessacar with permanent bed - he said they got sick of clambering into bed, plus he was always on the inside!  As I have never driven in an A-class never mind slept in the drop down bed, I would be interested to hear of anyone else's experiences.  Many thanks


----------



## colinm (Feb 17, 2017)

It is a common misconception that you need an A class to have a dropdown and also that they are transverse.
This is one of the best van layouts i've seen, trouble is gf's claustrophobia kicked even though it is longitudinal bed.
https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/u...ADA REGENT L ON MERCEDES SPRINTER 313CDI .pdf


----------



## Deleted member 9849 (Feb 17, 2017)

I fortunately have both,a rear fixed longitudinal double and the drop down A class at the front but the van is 22' long.Both beds are very comfortable,we normally use the rear unless it is very hot weather or one of us is ill,then we sleep separately.The drop down bed is excellent but you do have to have a reasonable degree of mobility to get up and down the ladder.

If taking grandchildren in a smaller A class where the central dinette converts to a double bed bear in mind that when they have gone to bed in the drop down they will still be in close proximity to you so any noise or watching TV may disturb them.We put our granddaughter to bed in the rear double and can continue watching TV,then when it's our bedtime mrs wakk gets in the rear double with her and I use the drop down bed.


----------



## IanH (Feb 17, 2017)

Agree with Colin

One aspect you may not be considering is width

PVC's are the original van width, if white van man can get more or less anywhere, so can a PVC. 

Of course it all depends what you want, but we like to be able to go more or less anywhere we'd take the car and not worry about dimensions too much.

Your call really!


----------



## mistericeman (Feb 17, 2017)

IanH said:


> Agree with Colin
> 
> One aspect you may not be considering is width
> 
> ...




Nail hit firmly on the head for us....


----------



## Obanboy666 (Feb 17, 2017)

IanH said:


> Agree with Colin
> 
> One aspect you may not be considering is width
> 
> ...



Have to agree, that's reason I changed from a c class to a pvc.
Got fed up not being able to park up in small villages, visit inner cities etc.
Since changing to a pvc I can basically go anywhere I wish and park up into the bargain. I'm even considering getting rid of the car as my pvc can be my everyday vehicle.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

But surely a smaller A-class is not going to be anymore restrictive than my current can which is a coach built so already wider than a van? I did worry when moving for a van conversion that it might be more restrictive but it hasn't been, and at 18 ft it fits in a  normal parking space? And with an a class at least you know exactly how wide you are rather than having a narrower cab?  We go everywhere in ours dales, lakes, 2 weeks in Donegal etc and I honestly don't think the extra width has made any difference.  

I think I will have to to try out some of the drop down beds to see for myself how it feels, I just thought they would be the bees knees but now am not so sure....


----------



## 2cv (Feb 18, 2017)

My van has a rear lounge. The bed makes up within 5 minutes and personally I prefer not having to have a bigger van just to have a ready made bed. My c class is very close to the width of a pvc, and using it a lot in remote parts of Scotland I have been very glad of that at times. I do find that the few extra inches width make it feel much more spacious inside.
Before buying I rented a van with a climb up permanent bed and that convinced me that it was not what I wanted.
Horses for courses though, and I understand why some prefer a permanent bed or a drop down to climb into.


----------



## jagmanx (Feb 18, 2017)

*See my Avatar..Fixed rear bed yes !*

We have a rear fixed bed.
A good sized shower with a door in the bathroom.

A nice open dining area just behind the cab seats which swivel.

Perfect for us
Vehicle is 6.5m long 3500kg

Yes 3 minuses

1 Full width so some very minor roads are tricky others are off-limits. (B roads OK. "opensided" unclassified roads just OK) 

2 Parking in towns and small carparks
( can park outside and use bus or walk or even a Taxi if need be )
With regard to Taxi.. It can be nearly as cheap as the bus and more convenient as an example
We often stay on a farm site near Maidenhead 
It is a decent walk to the bus stop 
A pair of bus tickets is £4.50 one way
A taxi firm offers £5 fixed price fares which then takes us back right to the camp-site especially handy if you have "done food shopping".

Some people have bikes but the expense and inconvenience is simply not worth it.
(Obviously different if you go for leisure bike rides)

3 Some overnight POIs are not good

However it suits us and we deal with the 3 minuses quite happily for the living/sleeping space and general comfort.
We live in the vehicle for the full 6 months in the summer..which means that on some days we are in the (stationary) vehicle for a good deal of the day if the weather is very bad.
With a suitable extra cover on the bed it is an area we use in the day both for temporary storage and to assist with meal preparation etc.

Personally having used (swapping) other vehicles without such a bed I know we would get fed up with any other solution !

As you post earlier ..Not much difference between a coachbuilt and A class with regard to Small roads and parking issues
A class bigger cab area but how many are under 3500kg ? (I know there are)

Dropdown bed OK but a bit of hassle something else to go wrong and maybe claustrophobic.

Indeed some Vehicles with a fixed but high rear bed may be claustrophobic !


----------



## phillybarbour (Feb 18, 2017)

Irrespective of van fixed or drop down it has to be a proper bed for us. Most people spend around 1/2 there time in their van in bed. Proper bed has a real mattress, normally sprung and is totally flat, a good nights sleep is right up there in the priorities for us.

As ohhers have said beds no longer need to be transverse but generally the more varied options are on new or newer vans. Some of the very latest have two drop downs one front one rear and again some of newer ones drop very very low.

As for width there are very few roads a PVC could tackle that a coach built or A Class coundnt, car parks are a different matter.


----------



## jennyp19 (Feb 18, 2017)

Just a few thoughts on different vehicles. 

The Adria coach built, we had for a few months had a drop down bed which came down in the middle of vehicle and twin beds at the back - made the length 7 m plus. Only problem was you all ended up going to bed as, although the seats at the front were still usable you had to be a contortionist to get to them.  We'd have stuck with that, but major drawback - and you won't believe this was the size of toilet cubicle. You could not sit on the loo and shut the door!! Would have been ok if you were  5 ft nothing but, if like us, large and 6ft no chance. So word of advice check the size of the loo as well - unless you want to talk to everyone while sitting on the loo. The shower in that van was lovely though as was the rest of it. 

The Burstner Aviano had transverse bed at rear and drop down at the front. Front was quite high to climb into but at least with it being right at the front you could still use some the seating area. 

We've now got Mobiviletta A class with twin rear beds and drop down at front.  Drop down is low enough to be able to climb in without ladder and able to sit up in bed.  Third time lucky.  It's 3.5 t (cough) but that's another story.  Still 7metres long. 

As to self build to get some space you need a long wheel base and so don't gain a huge amount on length on vehicle plus climbing over partner with transverse bed in middle of night isn't much fun as we get older. 

I don't think you are going to get under 7 metres and be comfortable especially with kids on a wet windy weekend - after all you will definitely need some much needed r & r me time at the end of the day when the little dears are in bed. Lol

Just another thought - have you looked at those duvalay things - all you do with those apparently is unroll them - like a sleeping bag with memory foam mattress attached, but a lot seem to love them.


----------



## Yelto (Feb 18, 2017)

I should imagine with your'e locality, you will be visiting the Harrogate Motorhome show in March where there will be lots of different layouts on display all in one place. Make a list of for's and against's and check out the different models.


----------



## Debs (Feb 18, 2017)

:nicethread::drive::sleep-027:


----------



## Nesting Zombie (Feb 18, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> But surely a smaller A-class is not going to be anymore restrictive than my current can which is a coach built so already wider than a van? I did worry when moving for a van conversion that it might be more restrictive but it hasn't been, and at 18 ft it fits in a  normal parking space? And with an a class at least you know exactly how wide you are rather than having a narrower cab?  We go everywhere in ours dales, lakes, 2 weeks in Donegal etc and I honestly don't think the extra width has made any difference.
> 
> I think I will have to to try out some of the drop down beds to see for myself how it feels, I just thought they would be the bees knees but now am not so sure....



Hi ya,
For my view its about How much you are actually going to USE your bed,, I mean is it like me as a Fulltime Livaboard, OR maybe 20/30 nights a year sort of thing,,,
PERMINANT DOUBLE would be my option every time if possible, No messing about, Leave it made up, Lots of under bed storage, IF there is Two or more of you aboard & one is a bit Under the weather for whatever reason, they can retreat to the Bed without disrupting the rest of the vehicles normal day to day usage by others. Nice BIG windows to look out of (& Escape from if needs be !) BUT this often means EXTRA vehicle Length. I use to have a Luton Van, & although a shorter vehicle as with Bed over cab, Climbing in & out at all times was getting a pain, & to be honest I find can get The Nest everywhere I use to get the Luton as far as Park ups go !. (The exception is I need TWO parking spaces in Length at places like supermarkets). So ive had NO problems Getting to where I Want or Needed to be.





YES a bit Longer, YES a bit wider, YES a bit Higher But NOT as big as a lot I've seen & shared a cuppa with while enjoying a bit of Rough !. & with a bit of planning Park ups are Absolutely Fine. Remember, Have a look at where some of these Delivery Lorries, Busses, Coaches & Mini Busses actually get !.

Maybe visit some Motorhome Outlets and have a poke around to get a Fresh Perspective & some ideas !. I'm sure you will think it through.


----------



## campervanannie (Feb 18, 2017)

Loving the thread Anne i am currently driving myself nuts with the same dilemma going down the coach built route prefer 2 x single beds but not discounting anything just when I find the perfect van it's either deposit taken or left hand drive or I love Sue's new van if I could remove the fixed bed and replace with a lounging sofa lol there is just too much choice out there good luck with your search.


----------



## jagmanx (Feb 18, 2017)

*If I had my time again*

I might have chosen a small A class because of the larger cab area...

However having bought and upgraded (Solar and 2x11kg LPG)  our coach built....
 We will quite happily stick with it (at least for now and no real plans to change)
We are quite happy so why spend £10K or more changing ?

Should we need to change I would look at A class provided
1) under 3500kg
2) rear fixed bed and good bathroom/shower
3) nice open airy lounge/dining room
4) lots of windows
5) nice engine and gearbox (6 speed and mostly over 30mpg)

No need for a 4 burner stove or bigger oven or microwave

PS We spent over a year looking round and went to about 5 dealerships before finding the layout we liked !!


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanks to all for all the replies, lots of useful information and things to think about.  Nobody seems to be leaping up and down in favour of the drop down beds which worries me, but better to hear these things from all angles!  I didn't know about the show in Harrowgate so will look into that, thanks Yelto.  We definitely don't want to go any longer than around 20 ft as we would have problems parking it in the small shared carpark at the back of our terrace as well as out an about.  The van is hopefully to be our Forever Van, currently we go away lots of weekends as well as 2 weeks in summer but I am approaching retirement and there is a good chance of getting redundancy before then, so after that we will use it loads, so yes to all who said a good bed is important!!  If the drop down bed (plus thermal blinds!) turns out to be be a no go I think we will stick to making up a bed rather than sacrifice a large part of the van space to a permanent bed (probably another Autosleeper) - though open to persuasion!  I have seen some vans under 6 ft with fixed bed, but the living accomodation tends to be quite cramped, usually the cab seats and one or 2 more, which doesn't give the option of having grandkids to stay.   I am very grateful for the time everyone has given to tell me their thoughts, it has been really interesting reading.  Still hoping someone out there will start singing the praises of the drop down beds!!


----------



## Robmac (Feb 18, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> Thanks to all for all the replies, lots of useful information and things to think about.  Nobody seems to be leaping up and down in favour of the drop down beds which worries me, but better to hear these things from all angles!  I didn't know about the show in Harrowgate so will look into that, thanks Yelto.  We definitely don't want to go any longer than around 20 ft as we would have problems parking it in the small shared carpark at the back of our terrace as well as out an about.  The van is hopefully to be our Forever Van, currently we go away lots of weekends as well as 2 weeks in summer but I am approaching retirement and there is a good chance of getting redundancy before then, so after that we will use it loads, so yes to all who said a good bed is important!!  If the drop down bed (plus thermal blinds!) turns out to be be a no go I think we will stick to making up a bed rather than sacrifice a large part of the van space to a permanent bed (probably another Autosleeper) - though open to persuasion!  I have seen some vans under 6 ft with fixed bed, but the living accomodation tends to be quite cramped, usually the cab seats and one or 2 more, which doesn't give the option of having grandkids to stay.   I am very grateful for the time everyone has given to tell me their thoughts, it has been really interesting reading.  Still hoping someone out there will start singing the praises of the drop down beds!!



Hi Anne.

May be worth a PM to Lee and Linda who, as you probably know, have a Pilote Galaxy with drop down bed.

Bearing in mind that Lee is 6' 7", I'm sure they can give you some good advice on the comfort and practicalities. x


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

***** said:


> Regarding the Hymer Exsis, there has been three basic models.
> The first introduced (Mk1) was the SK as below
> Google
> 
> ...



Thanks *****, I had discounted the Exsis range as I thought they all had fixed beds as well as drop down, but the Exsis-i 482 looks perfect!  Just had a quick google but can't find any for sale, but think they may be out of our price range as fairly new model - but you never know - current van was an Ebay bargain!!


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

***** said:


> I don't think there is any problem with using the drop down A Class bed, our Daughter, told us it was more comfortable than home, and with external screens for insulation, you will be snug as a bug. It is just a case that many of us already have extra beds at the rear, which are probably a little lower!
> In fact, Mrs G has just had a hip replacement after an accident, and we are sleeping apart for comfort at the moment. We have to go to a family funeral soon and I will be using the from drop down bed and have no issues with this!



Thats encouraging!!  But do you think the bed would be OK for 2 as permanent bed?  I guess I really do need to go and find some and lie down and let Martin clamber over me from the inside!  The things you have to do in the name of research !!


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

Robmac said:


> Hi Anne.
> 
> May be worth a PM to Lee and Linda who, as you probably know, have a Pilote Galaxy with drop down bed.
> 
> Bearing in mind that Lee is 6' 7", I'm sure they can give you some good advice on the comfort and practicalities. x




Hi Rob, no I didn't know that and that's a great idea, I will do it now, thanks! Wasn't your previous van a Pilote?  And if so were you happy with build quality etc?


----------



## Rod (Feb 18, 2017)

Our Euromobil has a drop down bed that is quite low. I can sit on it from the floor and it is an easy step off the adjacent seats.
Some of the new A class MH have a drop down bed that is transverse but also extends to allow 2 longitudinal single beds. I think the make was Frankia bit sure they will all do soon.
Enjoy looking
Rod


----------



## Robmac (Feb 18, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> Hi Rob, no I didn't know that and that's a great idea, I will do it now, thanks! Wasn't your previous van a Pilote?  And if so were you happy with build quality etc?



No mine was a Compass Drifter Anne. But I've been in Lee and Linda's Pilote as well as Gina and Ron's. They are lovely vans.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

Rod said:


> Our Euromobil has a drop down bed that is quite low. I can sit on it from the floor and it is an easy step off the adjacent seats.
> Some of the new A class MH have a drop down bed that is transverse but also extends to allow 2 longitudinal single beds. I think the make was Frankia bit sure they will all do soon.
> Enjoy looking
> Rod



Thanks Rod, do you happen to know what model it is?  I just had a quick look but can only find drop down beds that also have a permanent back bed.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Loving the thread Anne i am currently driving myself nuts with the same dilemma going down the coach built route prefer 2 x single beds but not discounting anything just when I find the perfect van it's either deposit taken or left hand drive or I love Sue's new van if I could remove the fixed bed and replace with a lounging sofa lol there is just too much choice out there good luck with your search.



Could sell you mine Annie!!  I know what you mean about the choice out there. do you remember the old days when you had buy an Autotrader on a Thursday and that just had local stuff in it!  Once we wanted a diesel VW to convert and we got up early and drove from Manchester to somewhere way down south stopping to buy each regional Autotrader - and we got one!  Much easier now!!


----------



## Robmac (Feb 18, 2017)

If you (or Annie) want a seriously well built motorhome, have a look at the Euro Yachts like Jim used to have. One of the best builds I have ever seen.

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/for-sale-wanted/51333-mobilvetta-euroyacht.html?highlight=

I can't remember the length though.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

Robmac said:


> If you (or Annie) want a seriously well built motorhome, have a look at the Euro Yachts like Jim used to have. One of the best builds I have ever seen.
> 
> https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/for-sale-wanted/51333-mobilvetta-euroyacht.html?highlight=
> 
> I can't remember the length though.



Thanks Rob, checked them out and they look amazing and get top write up for quality, but the shortest one is 6.85 m which is a bit too big for us to fit in.
BtW I got an awful shock when I saw that, I missed the bit about it being their old van and thought Rossi was ill again :sad:


----------



## campervanannie (Feb 18, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> Thanks to all for all the replies, lots of useful information and things to think about.  Nobody seems to be leaping up and down in favour of the drop down beds which worries me, but better to hear these things from all angles!  I didn't know about the show in Harrowgate so will look into that, thanks Yelto.  We definitely don't want to go any longer than around 20 ft as we would have problems parking it in the small shared carpark at the back of our terrace as well as out an about.  The van is hopefully to be our Forever Van, currently we go away lots of weekends as well as 2 weeks in summer but I am approaching retirement and there is a good chance of getting redundancy before then, so after that we will use it loads, so yes to all who said a good bed is important!!  If the drop down bed (plus thermal blinds!) turns out to be be a no go I think we will stick to making up a bed rather than sacrifice a large part of the van space to a permanent bed (probably another Autosleeper) - though open to persuasion!  I have seen some vans under 6 ft with fixed bed, but the living accomodation tends to be quite cramped, usually the cab seats and one or 2 more, which doesn't give the option of having grandkids to stay.   I am very grateful for the time everyone has given to tell me their thoughts, it has been really interesting reading.  Still hoping someone out there will start singing the praises of the drop down beds!!



I am currently looking at the 
Autosleeper Ravenna 
Autosleeper Nuevo 4 birth
Autosleeper Sigma
Compass avantgarde 130
To name a few.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

Thanks David, very interesting , and sounds like a thumbs up for the drop down bed being good for two.  Yes you are right I need to see some actual vans, am also wondering if some beds drop more than others, making them easier to get in and out of, plus more head room, so the research will continue!


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

colinmd said:


> It is a common misconception that you need an A class to have a dropdown and also that they are transverse.
> This is one of the best van layouts i've seen, trouble is gf's claustrophobia kicked even though it is longitudinal bed.
> https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/u...ADA REGENT L ON MERCEDES SPRINTER 313CDI .pdf



Hi Colin, have just checked out the La Strada Regent L and have to agree it is a fantastic use of the space and very novel design, great reviews too.  It is not quite big enough for us with up to 3 grandkids plus dog unfortunately but a very impressive conversion


----------



## Skar (Feb 18, 2017)

We used our Hymer 580 with just a drop down bed for six years when we were doing shorter trips of a couple of weeks. The only downside to them that I found is that it was a case of "one up, both up". On the longer trips that we do now in the Hymer 700 we would not be without the (massive) fixed bed.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

Skar said:


> We used our Hymer 580 with just a drop down bed for six years when we were doing shorter trips of a couple of weeks. The only downside to them that I found is that it was a case of "one up, both up". On the longer trips that we do now in the Hymer 700 we would not be without the (massive) fixed bed.



Hi Skar, thanks for that, just wondering why that was,   i had assumed that the rest of the van would still be usable when the bed was down?  - apart from the cab seats, is that not the case?


----------



## Deleted member 9849 (Feb 18, 2017)

Skar said:


> We used our Hymer 580 with just a drop down bed for six years when we were doing shorter trips of a couple of weeks. The only downside to them that I found is that it was a case of "one up, both up". On the longer trips that we do now in the Hymer 700 we would not be without the (massive) fixed bed.



Yes,I have found that with increasing age and decreasing mobility a fixed bed becomes a more attractive option.In our previous ''forever''motorhome which we kept for 6 years the L shaped rear lounge had to be made up into a double every night.When making the bed up became a problem we eventually slept on the 2 settees in single sleeping bags.The settees weren't really long enough for this so then we started to look around for a suitable layout that would suit our needs.

We now have another''forever''motorhome which is perfect for our requirements,I wouldn't like to be without a fixed bed now,it's great to just flop into a double bed with a warm and very comfortable duvet when you are exhausted or the worse for wear.I used to dread trying to make up the jigsaw puzzle of a bed in the last van especially when I had had a few.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

wakk44 said:


> Yes,I have found that with increasing age and decreasing mobility a fixed bed becomes a more attractive option.In our previous ''forever''motorhome which we kept for 6 years the L shaped rear lounge had to be made up into a double every night.When making the bed up became a problem we eventually slept on the 2 settees in single sleeping bags.The settees weren't really long enough for this so then we started to look around for a suitable layout that would suit our needs.
> 
> We now have another''forever''motorhome which is perfect for our requirements,I wouldn't like to be without a fixed bed now,it's great to just flop into a double bed with a warm and very comfortable duvet when you are exhausted or the worse for wear.I used to dread trying to make up the jigsaw puzzle of a bed in the last van especially when I had had a few.




Haha, know exactly what you mean, the drunken stumbling around the van whilst other half has to take dog for a walk!!  What did you get as your next Forever van Steve?


----------



## Deleted member 9849 (Feb 18, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> Haha, know exactly what you mean, the drunken stumbling around the van whilst other half has to take dog for a walk!!  What did you get as your next Forever van Steve?



It's a Hymer B644 A class,just less than 7m long,MGVW 3900kg,fixed longitudinal rear bed over a garage,pull down over cab bed and centre dinette.It is officially a 6 berth as the table makes another double bed which is a bit daft as there are only 3 seatbelts.I have removed the huge table as most B644 owners seem to do which has improved space.German manufacturers do seem to go a bit OTT with the dinette tables.
The dog now has nowhere to rest his chin.


----------



## QFour (Feb 18, 2017)

We have a Laika which has both. Fixed bed in the back and a pull down one over the front cab seats. Had a Pilote 716 before with electric bed that lived in the ceiling. If not completely flat front to back and sideways then they can jam. Either they won't go back up which makes driving difficult or they won't come down. Notice that the latest Pilote has a different arrangement. Would not go near anything that has electric motors on anything that you rely on like a bed.We went to Lowdhams the other year and the salesman tried to show us how easy it was to get the bed down. After he had tried reseting it and then complaining someone must have been playing we moved on.

Laika is an A Class just over 7m long and 2.3m wide.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 18, 2017)

QFour said:


> We have a Laika which has both. Fixed bed in the back and a pull down one over the front cab seats. Had a Pilote 716 before with electric bed that lived in the ceiling. If not completely flat front to back and sideways then they can jam. Either they won't go back up which makes driving difficult or they won't come down. Notice that the latest Pilote has a different arrangement. Would not go near anything that has electric motors on anything that you rely on like a bed.We went to Lowdhams the other year and the salesman tried to show us how easy it was to get the bed down. After he had tried reseting it and then complaining someone must have been playing we moved on.
> 
> Laika is an A Class just over 7m long and 2.3m wide.



Thanks for the warning - sounds a real pain, I will def bear that in mind!


----------



## Deleted member 9849 (Feb 19, 2017)

That is very true,but you must also consider the benefits.A rear fixed double where you have to climb steps to get in means you have a large garage underneath to store essential items.In that we have 2 full sized electric bikes and an inflatable awning which makes our touring a lot more comfortable.The option to cycle to local towns and villages or use some scenic cycle routes is much appreciated and allows us to stay further away from interesting places where there is no public transport.

If stopping long term the awning also comes into it's own,in there we have a portable kitchen unit and 2 ring gas hob supplied from the external BBQ point,very useful if long terming over the winter for example.The overall length is only slightly more at 6.95m so the extra length on the ferries is not really a factor,it is slightly more expensive but certainly not prohibitive.


----------



## colinm (Feb 19, 2017)

May I just point out that this depends on how you use the bed, if you only sleep on it you comments would be correct to some extent, although under the bed will be storage which is often(always?) handy.
If on the otherhand you also use the bed for lounging there is no wasted space.


----------



## Derekoak (Feb 19, 2017)

*Rear fixed double in 6 m*

Autocruise Select 144 Travel: Specifications - Autocruise - Current Stock New
They have not done the conversion as a fixed bed but you could leave it as a bed for weeks at a time. There are 4 other seats.
That is expensive for me but it shows what can be done. Our bikes would not fit under a bed that low even if the bed was permanent.


----------



## oldish hippy (Feb 19, 2017)

well look at wildax they do fixed bed pvc conversion anne that's what mine is


----------



## Nesting Zombie (Feb 19, 2017)

Hi ya,
I kinda get what you say, & in my view your right that the OP doesn't necessarily want a Longer vehicle, But as for the the above, A Rear Fixed Bed OFTEN contributes ALOT to the living space in my view, As its generally shared with other usage like the obvious BIG Extra Under bed Storage locker, Yet MORE Overhead storage Lockers, A Full Hanging Wardrobe, A Small Unit, As well as being a general Daytime temporary 'Dump' space if say while having visitors OR a meal rather than sitting in the associated Bits n Bobs in the saloon, & in my case it also houses a Separate Shower Unit That is also my Wet weather Hanging space, Washing machine area, Dirty / Wet Boot storage & Drying room !. Most of witch would otherwise probably be in the Loo !. So having the extra space will naturally find 'STUFF' migrating to the area giving a clearer Saloon. ish lol.
Just saying, it Could be useful & may work for some to maybe GREATLY enhance their living space !


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 19, 2017)

Thanks very much for all these discussions, it is really helpful for me to get first hand opinions and information.  The van will be what I jokingly refer to as our Forever Van - as it will have to last forever, as it is unlikely that we will be in a position to replace it again, so want to try to get it as right as possible.  We are limited to about 6m by where we park it, but also want to be able to park up reasonably easily.  Current van is coachbuilt and 18 ft. We go away in it most holidays and many weekends throughout the year, but post retirement/ redundancy we will go for much longer trips so it needs to be suitable for that too

I have looked at vans with permanent beds at the back that do come in under 6 metres, but usually at a compromise to the living area.  We often go away with friends who have a small van and ours become the social area, plus we really like the 2 settee arrangement, where we can both spread out and relax.  I know you could maybe use a permanent bed like this but not sure it would be the same.  And finally we need room for grandkids and dog!  

Can't help being struck by how many people say they wouldn't be without their permanent bed though, and the extra storage under it would be useful...I keep going round and round with it all, but I realise now that we need to actually get into a drop down bed and see how much agilty is required rather than try to make an academic decision


----------



## Nesting Zombie (Feb 19, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> Thanks very much for all these discussions, it is really helpful for me to get first hand opinions and information.  The van will be what I jokingly refer to as our Forever Van - as it will have to last forever, as it is unlikely that we will be in a position to replace it again, so want to try to get it as right as possible.  We are limited to about 6m by where we park it, but also want to be able to park up reasonably easily.  Current van is coachbuilt and 18 ft. We go away in it most holidays and many weekends throughout the year, but post retirement/ redundancy we will go for much longer trips so it needs to be suitable for that too
> 
> I have looked at vans with permanent beds at the back that do come in under 6 metres, but usually at a compromise to the living area.  We often go away with friends who have a small van and ours become the social area, plus we really like the 2 settee arrangement, where we can both spread out and relax.  I know you could maybe use a permanent bed like this but not sure it would be the same.  And finally we need room for grandkids and dog!
> 
> Can't help being struck by how many people say they wouldn't be without their permanent bed though, and the extra storage under it would be useful...I keep going round and round with it all, but I realise now that we need to actually get into a drop down bed and see how much agilty is required rather than try to make an academic decision



You will get there, ONLY you know Where & HOW you use your vehicle, BUT isn't it great having this Forum & ALL these different people giving there perspective & ideas.
GOOD LUCK.


----------



## jagmanx (Feb 19, 2017)

*Yes*



lotusanne said:


> Thanks very much for all these discussions, it is really helpful for me to get first hand opinions and information.  The van will be what I jokingly refer to as our Forever Van - as it will have to last forever, as it is unlikely that we will be in a position to replace it again, so want to try to get it as right as possible.  We are limited to about 6m by where we park it, but also want to be able to park up reasonably easily.  Current van is coachbuilt and 18 ft. We go away in it most holidays and many weekends throughout the year, but post retirement/ redundancy we will go for much longer trips so it needs to be suitable for that too
> 
> I have looked at vans with permanent beds at the back that do come in under 6 metres, but usually at a compromise to the living area.  We often go away with friends who have a small van and ours become the social area, plus we really like the 2 settee arrangement, where we can both spread out and relax.  I know you could maybe use a permanent bed like this but not sure it would be the same.  And finally we need room for grandkids and dog!
> 
> Can't help being struck by how many people say they wouldn't be without their permanent bed though, and the extra storage under it would be useful...I keep going round and round with it all, but I realise now that we need to actually get into a drop down bed and see how much agilty is required rather than try to make an academic decision



Look at lots of layouts
What is your lenth limit 6m or 6.5m or 7m
Given as you say it is to be your forever van .. Check the drop down bed access remembering you will get older and maybe less agile.

To expand slightly on my previous post our lounge/dining area will seat 6
2 swivelling cab seats 1 forward facing double seat with seatbelts 1 side facing doubles seat to access the table.
So Ok for grandkids and friends
This area will convert into a good sized double bed but a bit of a fuss
See the other posts re "bunk beds which use the cab seats" this may allow grandkids to be easily accommodated.

Not suggesting or van is perfect for you but it is a good model to start with
Lunar Premier 622 review - Lunar motorhomes | Practical Motorhome

PS the comment about extra ferry costs for a slightly longer vehicle are in my view irrelevant
Provided you can keep it on your drive the other issues re length are minor.
Parking / camping spots all the same for 6m 6.5m 7m


----------



## jagmanx (Feb 19, 2017)

*Yes but*

The OP was asking for relevant comments
My comments are relevant... OK so you do not agree.
The extra ferry costs from 6m to 7m are minor.

I simply asked (in effect) if 6m was an absolute limit

I Knew you would respond !
OK you like a drop down bed others have indicated disadvantages and possible problems !

Who knows how fit we will be in a few years !!!

My post was not assuming unlimited budget !


----------



## campervanannie (Feb 19, 2017)

oldish hippy said:


> well look at wildax they do fixed bed pvc conversion anne that's what mine is



Much prefer the Hymer 474 compact if I knew how to put a link up I would it's fab and can get my trike in lol.


----------



## Derekoak (Feb 19, 2017)

*Hymer 474*

But over 6 m


----------



## Deleted member 9849 (Feb 19, 2017)

You're very lucky,a lot of retired ex miners from this area who are still with us at 72 have various disabilities caused by years of hard manual work underground and wouldn't be able to get into an over cab bed,I don't suppose you gave much thought to that fact as you never had much experience of it in your line of employment.


----------



## Deleted member 9849 (Feb 19, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Much prefer the Hymer 474 compact if I knew how to put a link up I would it's fab and can get my trike in lol.



There you go..........Hymer Compact 474 - Travelworld Motorhomes

Only problem for the OP is that is slightly over their maximum length at 6.2m.Looks a nice van though and it would have decent separation at bed time,you could put the grandkids to bed in the rear and still have use of the front dinette which means you wouldn't all have to go to bed at the same time.


----------



## Skar (Feb 19, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> Hi Skar, thanks for that, just wondering why that was,   i had assumed that the rest of the van would still be usable when the bed was down?  - apart from the cab seats, is that not the case?



Yes the rest of the van was usable but the 580 is quite small with an L shaped lounge/dining area adjacent to the drop down bed. Yes it was usable (and I have used it often) but frankly her staying in bed made the place look untidy! Now she has her suite at the back and I happily take her frequent cups of tea in bed to keep her out of the way...


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 19, 2017)

Skar said:


> Yes the rest of the van was usable but the 580 is quite small with an L shaped lounge/dining area adjacent to the drop down bed. Yes it was usable (and I have used it often) but frankly her staying in bed made the place look untidy! Now she has her suite at the back and I happily take her frequent cups of tea in bed to keep her out of the way...



Hahaha !! She is a lucky lady!! But the idea of her making the place look untidy really amused me!!


----------



## campervanannie (Feb 19, 2017)

wakk44 said:


> There you go..........Hymer Compact 474 - Travelworld Motorhomes
> 
> Only problem for the OP is that is slightly over their maximum length at 6.2m.Looks a nice van though and it would have decent separation at bed time,you could put the grandkids to bed in the rear and still have use of the front dinette which means you wouldn't all have to go to bed at the same time.



I was looking at that van for meeeee I could get my mobility scooter between the 2 beds and the one on EBay at £38.995 has a massive garage door at the back perfik.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 19, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> I was looking at that van for meeeee I could get my mobility scooter between the 2 beds and the one on EBay at £38.995 has a massive garage door at the back perfik.



How big do you want to go Annie?  That does look a lovely van, and it would be ideal to put the scooter there wouldn;t it, out of the way of everything else when travelling, so you could still use all the facilities.


----------



## campervanannie (Feb 19, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> How big do you want to go Annie?  That does look a lovely van, and it would be ideal to put the scooter there wouldn;t it, out of the way of everything else when travelling, so you could still use all the facilities.



Don't wat to go massively big but it's trying to combine my scooter with the comforts of a MH and under 22ft not an easy ask but that one looks perfect depends how much of our retirement saving we want to spend so will keep looking.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 19, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Don't wat to go massively big but it's trying to combine my scooter with the comforts of a MH and under 22ft not an easy ask but that one looks perfect depends how much of our retirement saving we want to spend so will keep looking.



Would scooter fit in garage under a fixed bed? Some of the are pretty big, are you ok getting up to higher bed?


----------



## campervanannie (Feb 19, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> Would scooter fit in garage under a fixed bed? Some of the are pretty big, are you ok getting up to higher bed?



Yes I have been looking at some on eBay with the large garage at the moment I am trying to find a van conversion that had 2 single beds in the back that fold up against the wall but cannot remember what make or model, it was a professional conversion but is now lost in either auto trader or eBay.


----------



## colinm (Feb 19, 2017)

It's just clicked that you will be up to five up, I don't know of any 6m van with 5 belted seats, although it is an option to fit a double passenger seat. but this may well compromise the rest of layout on a 6m van.
For sleeping it may well be that an overcab with rear lounge and an across the front seats bed would be an option.
We have been down the route of making sure our van is fit for carrying the kids, but when it comes down to it, it's a much rarer occurrence than we thought it would be, and even then their mother comes as well so we now have a tent for them. Whilst it's a nice thought to take the kids you realy need to make sure you will not be compromising too much.


----------



## colinm (Feb 19, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Yes I have been looking at some on eBay with the large garage at the moment I am trying to find a van conversion that had 2 single beds in the back that fold up against the wall but cannot remember what make or model, it was a professional conversion but is now lost in either auto trader or eBay.



Our globecar 636sb should take a mobility scooter, there is one version with extra high top and the bed lifts as a whole.
p.s. I see there are two globecars that should take a 'pensioners hotrod' and keep bed intact the 'campscout revolution' and 'globestar 600L revolution', on both of these you would raise bed, drive scooter in, then lower bed to a convenient height, if you have scooter with folding backrest and handle bars this would be quite low.


----------



## ScamperVan (Feb 20, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> I am trying to find a van conversion that had 2 single beds in the back that fold up against the wall but cannot remember what make or model, it was a professional conversion but is now lost in either auto trader or eBay.



Wildax, perhaps?

Edit: ooops,sorry - just reread and saw it has already been mentioned.


----------



## jagmanx (Feb 20, 2017)

*Itineo Rear Full Front Dropdown Best of Both ?*

Itineo LB 600 - YouTube

Itineo LB 600 - YouTube

Rear full bed
Front Dropdown bed

6.5 m or 6m ?

Biggish Bucks !
But great for now and later and room for visitors and overnighters


----------



## El Veterano (Feb 20, 2017)

We looked very closely at the Chausson 610 which only has a drop down bed, but because it is a low profile it drops down over the salon area, which puts that area completely out of action. So when one of you wants to go to bed/ get up, you both have to. If you go for an 'A' class the bed will drop down over the driver and passenger seats  leaving the salon free. So the 610 got booted out and we have now gone back to an 'A' class with fixed rear transverse bed with a drop down at the front (only with that because that is how it comes). And the weapon of choice for us is a Dethleffs Globebus i8 and only 6.65 meters long as well. But, and a big but, they are expensive and very difficult to find S/H.


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 20, 2017)

hairydog said:


> The drop-down bed in my Hymer is as easy to get into as getting up the steps through the door into the van. But I guess a real overcab bed is a lot higher than that.



Thanks Hairydog, that's encouraging.  Do you use it for 2 people?  if so how do you find the access out from the inside in the night if needed?


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 20, 2017)

this looks ideal...Pilote Galaxy , 19 ft, with oven and habitation door on UK side...

Pilote Galaxy D75 'A' Class, Fiat 2.5 Diesel, Drop Down Bed | eBay

and this Frankia...
Pilote Galaxy D75 'A' Class, Fiat 2.5 Diesel, Drop Down Bed | eBay

and hymer - bed looks biggest on this maybe..

Hymer BC544 1998 RHD Diesel, only 32,000 miles from new in beautiful condition. | eBay


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 20, 2017)

[No message]


----------



## jagmanx (Feb 20, 2017)

*I agree*

Just checkout the interior "space" as well as all the obvious given it is ebay !


----------



## lotusanne (Feb 20, 2017)

Thanks  both, yes it does look a good one - though would have to see it first...this was the Frankia...
2004 (04) OTHER FRANKIA HOLIDAY 650 A-CLASS | eBay


----------



## daisymini (Feb 20, 2017)

lotusanne said:


> Thanks  both, yes it does look a good one - though would have to see it first...this was the Frankia...
> 2004 (04) OTHER FRANKIA HOLIDAY 650 A-CLASS | eBay



I like the Hymer!!!! Low mileage and good price ....


----------



## carol (Feb 20, 2017)

daisymini said:


> I like the Hymer!!!! Low mileage and good price ....



I do too. Wish I could drive one of those!


----------



## oldish hippy (Feb 20, 2017)

no fifferent to a van


----------



## oldish hippy (Feb 20, 2017)

daisymini said:


> I like the Hymer!!!! Low mileage and good price ....



sue stop it you will get me in trouble with admin


----------



## Nesting Zombie (Feb 20, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Don't wat to go massively big but it's trying to combine my scooter with the comforts of a MH and under 22ft not an easy ask but that one looks perfect depends how much of our retirement saving we want to spend so will keep looking.



Hi ya,
I take it you've looked at Towing your Scooter, OR rear Mounting it in a specialist Frame Annie !.
This would unlock LOTS of vehicle Layout & Cost choices for you !


----------



## campervanannie (Feb 20, 2017)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Hi ya,
> I take it you've looked at Towing your Scooter, OR rear Mounting it in a specialist Frame Annie !.
> This would unlock LOTS of vehicle Layout & Cost choices for you !



We have towed it in the past but it does become a bit of a ball ache in some of the wildingdpots I use my choice is buy a boot scooter that limits where I can go or stick out for a van like hipsters wildAx where the bed folds to one side Adria also do one too but it's getting one at the right price.


----------



## oldish hippy (Feb 20, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> We have towed it in the past but it does become a bit of a ball ache in some of the wildingdpots I use my choice is buy a boot scooter that limits where I can go or stick out for a van like hipsters wildAx where the bed folds to one side Adria also do one too but it's getting one at the right price.



well my bed doesn't fold now it used too


----------

