# Wee bit advice needed



## sinner (Mar 7, 2016)

Right guys, bought a MH 11 month ago from marquis (Durham) 
van is is shop for repair. Just had a call from marquis re engine fault they are hitting me with:

Van need to go to another garage for diagnostic to see what the problem is (could be clutch) but if it comes back ware an tear I need to pay for the diagnostic and the repair, I have had van 11 month I have done 5000miles there is 31000 on the clock. 
The cost will be £1500, 
Advice needed is this right or do I fight it?


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## Robmac (Mar 7, 2016)

Presuming it is under warranty Alan?

A decent warranty should cover major mechanical components like the clutch. Have you read through yours?


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## trevskoda (Mar 7, 2016)

By law you are only covered for 6 mth ,however if yu can prove the fault was there from purchase you the can take them to small claims for up to 5 years but at your expence,this is to cover repairs /faults that you were not told about at point of sale ie crash repairs or a botched engine/gbox.
I would think that you are on sticky ground but ring trading standards before going mad.


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## wildman (Mar 7, 2016)

I suspect you are stuck with it as you have done 5000 miles so whatever the problem is it would not have been seen by marquis. However a clutch should not cost anything like that. Get an independent check. A diagnostic should not be expencive either. Sounds like Marquis are trying it on.


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## maingate (Mar 7, 2016)

Hi Alan,

Try fighting it but as has been said, you might be on dodgy ground. You could always ask for a second opinion.

I have always used Hoddys Recovery in Gateshead (just a few miles away). for a start, they will give an honest opinion and secondly, will do the job for a lot less than £1500.

Give me a call if you want to go that route and I will pop in and have a word with Hoddys and see what they say.


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## phillybarbour (Mar 7, 2016)

Most warranties don't cover consumable items, this includes clutches unless you can prove the fault was there before you got the van. 5000 miles later that may be difficult to prove. All that said £1500 for a clutch seems mighty high, I feel nearer £750 would seem in the right ball park to me. 

Most (not all) clutch faults can be found with a short drive, therefore 30 mins labour for their diagnosis would not be out of order. If they want to take the box out for diagnosis I'd be considering a different garage with a quote to replace before they start.


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## Robmac (Mar 7, 2016)

I may be wrong about the warranty!

Is Clutch Failure Covered by Warranty?


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## witzend (Mar 7, 2016)

Does Marquis have a workshop / repair facility ? Perhaps that is why it needs to go to a garage for diagnostics
as a clutch problem should not need specialist equipment. I expect that after 5000 mls your going to have to pay for repairs if its worn but if the bearing has failed maybe not perhaps Marquis may pay part if you ask them as you've not owned it long. £1500 does seem expensive ask other garages for a estimate for a clutch replacement


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## sinner (Mar 7, 2016)

I am a bit stuck just now as been in Hosp with the kid since Thursday,but seemingly it is a hunt of a job and they need to take the cluch out and check it all before they can say if it's broke (covered) or wear an tear (not covered) I am waiting on a director calling me see if they will come and go with the cost, me paying something and they swollow the rest.


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## dicus (Mar 7, 2016)

Is it the clutch or could it be a flywheel problem, clutches either work or slip and if its not slipping then a strip down is needed.
Good Luck


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## sinner (Mar 7, 2016)

maingate said:


> Hi Alan,
> 
> Try fighting it but as has been said, you might be on dodgy ground. You could always ask for a second opinion.
> 
> ...



Cheers bud will be in touch soon


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## trevskoda (Mar 7, 2016)

Clutch should be around £450/650 depending on how hard a job it is and el cheapo or top type like borg & beck etc,get 3 independant prices for job and yes it may have been a release brg or diaphragm breakdown due to last owner having a heavy foot.


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## Rob H (Mar 7, 2016)

*Wee bit advice needed.*



sinner said:


> Right guys, bought a MH 11 month ago from marquis (Durham)
> van is is shop for repair. Just had a call from marquis re engine fault they are hitting me with:
> 
> Van need to go to another garage for diagnostic to see what the problem is (could be clutch) but if it comes back ware an tear I need to pay for the diagnostic and the repair, I have had van 11 month I have done 5000miles there is 31000 on the clock.
> ...



Hi Sinner,

Your info is a bit thin, how old the van, what engine, what engine fault symptoms, has it towed anything, you have focused on the clutch, presumably the vehicles original clutch,  traditional three piece clutches and newer 4 piece (dual mass flywheel clutches generally give warning before failure, juddering (overheated warped flywheel face, friction plate or diaphragm pressure plate or dual mass flywheel unit or rear engine oil seal failing .. oil contamination, broken engine mounting), slipping (friction plate material worn away, pressure plate failing, release mechanism /cable out of adjustment), won't release cleanly, (diaphragm pressure plate failing or release bearing failing or release mechanism, hydraulic or cable out of adjustment), squealing ( release bearing failing). These can be felt by yourself in your 5000 miles, hill starts, reversing, and don't, to my knowledge show up as an electronic diagnostic fault code. dual mass clutches are more expensive than traditional three piece units as there is a dual mass flywheel unit to factor in. No garage will take a clutch out to 'check it', The labour is a significant amount, they may as well replace it all if they take out, ... see what the diagnostic conclusion is, if it comes back as 'sorry sir you need a new clutch assembly', as previous comments, sounds slightly fishy, you are probably out of warranty, As for written diagnosis, then suggest you take it to a different trusted garage of 'your' choice for second opinion and to do the job.

Rgrds,

Rob H.


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## sinner (Mar 7, 2016)

Rob H said:


> Hi Sinner,
> 
> Your info is a bit thin, how old the van, what engine, what engine fault symptoms, has it towed anything, you have focused on the clutch, presumably the vehicles original clutch,  traditional three piece clutches and newer 4 piece (dual mass flywheel clutches generally give warning before failure, juddering (overheated warped flywheel face, friction plate or diaphragm pressure plate or dual mass flywheel unit or rear engine oil seal failing .. oil contamination, broken engine mounting), slipping (friction plate material worn away, pressure plate failing, release mechanism /cable out of adjustment), won't release cleanly, (diaphragm pressure plate failing or release bearing failing or release mechanism, hydraulic or cable out of adjustment), squealing ( release bearing failing). These can be felt by yourself in your 5000 miles, hill starts, reversing, and don't, to my knowledge show up as an electronic diagnostic fault code. dual mass clutches are more expensive than traditional three piece units as there is a dual mass flywheel unit to factor in. No garage will take a clutch out to 'check it', The labour is a significant amount, they may as well replace it all if they take out, ... see what the diagnostic conclusion is, if it comes back as 'sorry sir you need a new clutch assembly', as previous comments, sounds slightly fishy, you are probably out of warranty, As for written diagnosis, then suggest you take it to a different trusted garage of 'your' choice for second opinion and to do the job.
> 
> ...



Hi rob, fiat Ducato 3lt 2008 it has done 30000 miles 
I had no hint to the cluch failing but when I was taken van down to marquis I lost powere over 1500 revs I think a pipe broke on the inter cooler (I could smell coolent burning) and if I reeves over 1500 revs with smoke came out from under bonnet, they are saying they won't know what's up till they take the clutch out, which is done by dropping the gearbox etc hence the cost is a lot off labour, the clutch is approx £8/900


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## sinner (Mar 7, 2016)

Also the problem is I am in Edinburgh, van is in marquis Durham and I am also stuck in hospital with the kid so everything is being done ishy pishy :-(


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## Polar Bear (Mar 7, 2016)

sinner said:


> Right guys, bought a MH 11 month ago from marquis (Durham)
> van is is shop for repair. Just had a call from marquis re engine fault they are hitting me with:
> 
> *Van need to go to another garage for diagnostic to see what the problem is (could be clutch)* but if it comes back ware an tear I need to pay for the diagnostic and the repair, I have had van 11 month I have done 5000miles there is 31000 on the clock.
> ...



Why do they need to send it to another garage? That in itself would start my WTF radar going full speed.

DUAL MASS FLYWHEEL + CLUTCH KIT LUK FIAT DUCATO 250 3.0 D Multijet | eBay


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## sak (Mar 7, 2016)

The intercooler cools the air before it goes into the engine it has nothing to do with engine coolant, you would loose power if an intercooler pipe split or came off but it is an easy fix you just replace the broken part with a new one, but as to where the clutch comes into this scenario puzzles me.
I have corrected my mistake, thanks for pointing it out.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Mar 7, 2016)

I would find a good local independent garage and take it there for honest advice,most mechanical warranties have got wriggle clauses(especially for wear and tear)and will try anything to avoid paying out.If Marquis want to take it to another garage for a diagnostic it suggests to me they are not up to much.A decent local independent will do a good job at a fair price.


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## Pauljenny (Mar 7, 2016)

Sorry to hear that you are up to your neck in it .

 You are getting good advice telling you to look elsewhere than Marquis . They are  really only there to flog motorhomes and make as much profit from the punters ,after the sale .

It might be worthwhile mentioning to Marquis that you are reporting your problem on this website and that many potential clients and sources of recommendation  are following this with interest.

Advise them that this is a chance to show us how good their customer service is .

Print out some of these pages... Let them see how many members are involved . 

Good luck .


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## maingate (Mar 7, 2016)

Can I just point out that there is nothing sinister in Marquis sending the vehicle to a Main Dealer. A local Main Dealer (Citroen/Peugeot Truck) used to do a lot of work for the local motorhome Dealers. They did the work on my Burstner 747 when I bought it from Discover Leisure. I think Brownhills (now Marquis) did the same for major mechanical work. 

I think the £1500 cost mentioned is about right for a replacement clutch/DMF and diagnostic by a Main Dealer. It is not definite that this is the case. I think it would be fair of Marquis to at least stand the diagnostic cost.

Edit. Just to add that I bought my first van from Brownhills, Durham. Their costs were not cheap but they were a really good set of trained personnel in my opinion. I would guess that most of them transferred over to Marquis. Also, to be fair, they have not hesitated to sort out any other problems that Alan had. Sometimes we just have bad luck and to be honest, I would never buy a Ducato (post 2007) because I don't rate them. They have actually discontinued the 3.0 litre engine now.


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## Rob H (Mar 7, 2016)

*Wee bit advice needed.*



sinner said:


> Also the problem is I am in Edinburgh, van is in marquis Durham and I am also stuck in hospital with the kid so everything is being done ishy pishy :-(



You're getting some good advice from forum members, particularly with regard to sourcing advice from Fiat specialist garages, and the extra info you have supplied all helps,  smell of hot glycol coolant is quite clear and sweet, quite different to hot clutch, why do they smell of fish ? lol.  Possible engine has gone into limp home mode if overheating or coolant loss, and this will generate a fault code possibly more than one fault code (all related) ? My suggestion for what its worth, see if diagnostic check comes back with a coolant related fault/s, and how much to fix ? make a decision / put it to the panel .. 

A three litre diesel will have a bigger clutch than a smaller engined vehicles, bigger is better with clutches, even DMF's can if not abused last 90k or more, realise you may not know vehicles history, but 30k is nothing to a commercial vehicle. 200k + more like it ...

Good luck with the Duc diagnostic's and hope junior out of hospital soonest.

Rgrds,

Rob H.


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## sinner (Mar 7, 2016)

I had taken the van down to them as it was nearing end off warranty and had a few things to get sorted, then on way I had the engine fault, I was on way to Hungary, dropped the van off and all the faults were sorted Inc new floor (part) but when I called on Monday they told me about this fault, as im in hosp with the kid I am more worried about her and not really taken everything they has said, but I did talk to the gen manager and he wont budge on the warranty or help with cost, so looks like I will need to bite the bullet.   

cheers for all the help and advice I will update tomorrow once I have the diagnostic report.


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## sinner (Mar 7, 2016)

I would also like to point out, up to now Marquis have been fantastic with there after sales, and I am hopping this will continue and I do not think there is anything in them sending to another garage as they are not equipped to deal with my problem.


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## maingate (Mar 7, 2016)

I have no idea what you are on about.

Marquis (the Dealer) have found a suspected problem and want to take it to a Main Fiat/Citroen/Peugeot Commercial Truck Dealer who work on Sevel vehicles. So they are doing exactly as you propose but you seem to have a problem with that. It would cost Marquis thousands of £ to equip themselves with all the diagnostic equipment needed for modern vehicles (plus the fact it would have to be suitable for Ford, Renault, Mercedes, Iveco and Nissan engines). Not only do they need access to the engine codes, they need expert advice and cost of whatever problem the experts diagnose.

I have already stated that the projected cost is around the normal cost of a clutch/DMF replacement. So who is the middle man and what extra costs are involved?


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## trevskoda (Mar 7, 2016)

dicus said:


> Is it the clutch or could it be a flywheel problem, clutches either work or slip and if its not slipping then a strip down is needed.
> Good Luck



Not true,clutches can work and hold but may have the release bearing to tight on diaphragm which leads to the fingers breaking up,normaly slip with this setup though not always, and they may close ok but drag due to either oil ,warped or plate sticking on main drive shaft.
I have even seen chafed cable cause trouble to ,and on one car i did the engine mounts had gave way jamming the release lever.
Nothing is always that simple except me.:scared:


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## saxonborg (Mar 7, 2016)

For info only, Marquis Durham were charging £60 an hour for doing re-sealing work on motorhomes, heavens knows what the labour charge would be for diesel work, as others have suggested take it to someone who knows what they are doing.


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## Fazerloz (Mar 7, 2016)

I bought a 2nd hand Swift Mondial on a Ducato from Lowdhams  Huddersfield, nearly 10 months and 8000 mls later the clutch slave cylinder leaked contaminating the clutch. The repair was carried out by Fiat Northern Commercials Brighouse. The cost was very nearly £1500. With a lot of co-operation between Lowhams and Northern Commercials and myself the job got covered under warranty except for £150 I had to pay. Which I was more than happy with. Check your warranty, a lot seem to think they are not worth the paper they are printed on, but mine and Lowdhams have been excellent.


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## maingate (Mar 7, 2016)

[No message]


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## sinner (Mar 7, 2016)

[No message]


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## sinner (Mar 7, 2016)

nope david, you have not upset me I just want to keep this thread on topic for the time being


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## trevskoda (Mar 7, 2016)

sak said:


> The intercooler cools the air before it goes into the turbo it has nothing to do with engine coolant, you would loose power if an intercooler pipe split or came off but it is an easy fix you just replace the broken part with a new one, but as to where the clutch comes into this scenario puzzles me.



No it cools the compressed air after the turbo before entering the cylinders hense the name inter.


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## trevskoda (Mar 7, 2016)

Its the turbo seals that leak the oil,the inter cooler has only the air going through it and the forced air through the grill .
And yes i to have seen a trany rev to bits/rods out the side because of the oil being sucked into air stream from turbo seal david.


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## trevskoda (Mar 7, 2016)

100% david ,i do remember a toyota hiace owned by a paper co here brought to the workshop when the driver took his foot of the gas on m/way the engine ran on,turned out to be very worn valve guides,mind you it was on the 4th time round the clock.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Mar 7, 2016)

[No message]


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## Wully (Mar 7, 2016)

*Clutch*

Hi hope you get something out of dealer. Just this point I've had vans all my live as I'm a builder so I take one of my transit trucks to a garage for clutch fully supplied and fitted £700. I then take a transit motorhome to same garage same repair they tried to charge £1250 . They think a motorhome justifies a 50% hike   Just a point sorry to be negative but this is my experiace turn up with a standard ducato van I guarantee repair to be halved they think we're all mugs cheers  wully


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## sinner (Mar 9, 2016)

well they came back to me stating it was wear an tear so a nice wee hit to my pocket, but cheers for all the advice and help guys, pity I was so tied up with other things to take most off the advice and do something about it..........but ya live and learn  


cheers


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## maingate (Mar 9, 2016)

Now you know why I would not own a 3.0 Ducato. I have to reverse my van up my sloping driveway. I would be replacing the clutch every 10,000 miles. 

Let me know when you are picking it up.


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## kito (Mar 10, 2016)

*kito*

Hi 30,000 is low mileage for a clutch to go it must have had a hard life. A clutch should do a lot more miles than that,

Tip If you park your van up for more than a week, Don't leave it in gear and don't leave the hand brake on if atoll possible rather choke wheels as the brake shoes can rust and can bond to drums, Same with the clutch and if it bonds to the fly wheel you wont get it out of gear Start it up and run the engine press the clutch pedal few times and select a gear and just slip the clutch a few times just to clean the plates, Or better still give the van a short run, 


That could be the cause of the early clutch fail your because if it sticks it weakens the pressure plate and that can lead to a slipping clutch


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## delicagirl (Mar 10, 2016)

wakk44 said:


> Yes,I have noticed that,it's a real shame as he does some useful posts but does need to exercise more self control.Some members just can't help themselves and don't realise how pompous and self righteous they sound.




and those who comment on others alleged pomposity  are in danger of sounding the same way........  just like I am doing now....

If you don't like David's posts ... - including his apology  -  then  ignore them/him


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## The laird (Mar 10, 2016)

sinner said:


> well they came back to me stating it was wear an tear so a nice wee hit to my pocket, but cheers for all the advice and help guys, pity I was so tied up with other things to take most off the advice and do something about it..........but ya live and learn
> 
> 
> cheers
> ...



Has this got a dual mass flywheel if so was any comment on the condition of the flywheel?


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## Robmac (Mar 10, 2016)

Price sounds about right for a clutch/DM.


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## whitevanwoman (Mar 10, 2016)

A different model of van, I know (mine is a Mark 6 Transit), but I had a new clutch last year done by a lad who runs his own repair business and specialises in Transits so he knows them inside out - the total bill (and I think it included a new clutch slave / spigot, whatever that is) came to  about £400 (maybe less, I can't remember exactly) (parts + labour + VAT). He did it pretty much singlehandedly, dropping gearbox, in an hour and half and clearly knew exactly what he was doing - he's probably only in his late twenties but he said he'd probably done several thousand clutch changes. He only charges £30/hour labour so although its a 60 mile drive each way, it works out cheaper on big jobs than local mechanics, plus I can stay over in his yard the night before and for the duration of the repair. He is always really busy and has a lot of fleet contracts, some from a considerable distance away. 

None of this is much use to you I know but the point is that there are some really high skilled specialists out there who won't rip you off and who do a good job but it's finding them that's the problem. It might be worth contacting some local courier companies and asking them who does their van repairs and maintenance or any other companies who run large van fleets.


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## Polar Bear (Mar 10, 2016)

I do wonder what happened to the ability to diagnose mechanical faults like this without having to "put it on the computer"? 

Has your van been 'mapped' has that can shorten the life of a clutch. Never been a fan of duel-mass and have changed many back to standard.


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## sasquatch (Mar 10, 2016)

I bought my first brand new van in 2008 after a succession of home builds and secondhand vans. It was an Auto Trail on a 3 litre manual Ducato-then the trouble started clutch went at 200 miles,then everytime I took it out something happened ranging from minor to major. FIATs after care was useless and at times very dodgy,I believe that the Manager of their 'customer care' was on company orders,put me off the Italian jobs for ever,I now have a Tranny,no probs-so far!
I do think that as soon as you can get out of the clutches of a warranty garage,find a good mechanic,preferably on personal recommendation. There are many independent motorhome service garages that a quality service at a reasonable cost. I agree on the price difference between a bog standard van and a motorhome on the same chassis.
Caravans and boats have a similar structure for spares and accessories.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Mar 10, 2016)

Polar Bear said:


> I do wonder what happened to the ability to diagnose mechanical faults like this without having to "put it on the computer"?
> 
> Has your van been 'mapped' has that can shorten the life of a clutch. Never been a fan of duel-mass and have changed many back to standard.



Precisely what happened to me with a previous Autotrail.I had it re-mapped by a cowboy off of e bay from 127bhp up to 165bhp.It was then possible to spin the drive wheels,problem was I needed a new clutch after 6 months.Never again,I would sooner change down on the long drawn out hills.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Mar 10, 2016)

sasquatch said:


> I bought my first brand new van in 2008 after a succession of home builds and secondhand vans. It was an Auto Trail on a 3 litre manual Ducato-then the trouble started clutch went at 200 miles,then everytime I took it out something happened ranging from minor to major. FIATs after care was useless and at times very dodgy,I believe that the Manager of their 'customer care' was on company orders,put me off the Italian jobs for ever,I now have a Tranny,no probs-so far!
> I do think that as soon as you can get out of the clutches of a warranty garage,find a good mechanic,preferably on personal recommendation. There are many independent motorhome service garages that a quality service at a reasonable cost. I agree on the price difference between a bog standard van and a motorhome on the same chassis.
> Caravans and boats have a similar structure for spares and accessories.



Excellent advice about using a good local independent garage,I am fortunate to have found a trustworthy one who does a good job at a good price.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Mar 10, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> and those who comment on others alleged pomposity  are in danger of sounding the same way........  just like I am doing now....



A good point,my post did sound like that and was a bit injudicious,on this occasion I failed to follow my own advice to preview post and read through 3 times before clicking submit.

Apologies to all concerned,including David.


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## sinner (Mar 10, 2016)

Polar Bear said:


> I do wonder what happened to the ability to diagnose mechanical faults like this without having to "put it on the computer"?
> 
> Has your van been 'mapped' has that can shorten the life of a clutch. Never been a fan of duel-mass and have changed many back to standard.



Not that I know.


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## sinner (Mar 10, 2016)

sasquatch said:


> I bought my first brand new van in 2008 after a succession of home builds and secondhand vans. It was an Auto Trail on a 3 litre manual Ducato-then the trouble started clutch went at 200 miles,then everytime I took it out something happened ranging from minor to major. FIATs after care was useless and at times very dodgy,I believe that the Manager of their 'customer care' was on company orders,put me off the Italian jobs for ever,I now have a Tranny,no probs-so far!
> I do think that as soon as you can get out of the clutches of a warranty garage,find a good mechanic,preferably on personal recommendation. There are many independent motorhome service garages that a quality service at a reasonable cost. I agree on the price difference between a bog standard van and a motorhome on the same chassis.
> Caravans and boats have a similar structure for spares and accessories.




I have a great mechanic does all my work, the problem here was I took the van down for repair on warenty, left the van went on holiday came back and they told me my clutch is fecked, so van is down in Newcastle I'm in Edinburgh so I have just swallowed the cost and will pick van up and get on with my life ))) live an learn


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## Robmac (Mar 10, 2016)

sinner said:


> I have a great mechanic does all my work, the problem here was I took the van down for repair on warenty, left the van went on holiday came back and they told me my clutch is fecked, so van is down in Newcastle I'm in Edinburgh so I have just swallowed the cost and will pick van up and get on with my life ))) live an learn



Sometimes Alan, that's the best way. As you say, live and learn.


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## Bigwully (Mar 10, 2016)

Just popped in and read this thread. Cant believe the cost involved.  I should have stayed in the trade.  If its a Fiat /Boxer the normal price for a replacement clutch is just under £1000 at a franchised dealer and half that at a local one using non franchise parts.  Diagnosis on the clutch requires nothing other than a good mechanic with a bit of savy. Full replacement clutch, driven plate, pressure plate and bearing costs between £50 to £100, depending on model, parts are really cheap now.  I hope you have it all sorted out to your satisfaction by now.
Best regards
(fellow Scot not far from you)


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## trevskoda (Mar 10, 2016)

kito said:


> Hi 30,000 is low mileage for a clutch to go it must have had a hard life. A clutch should do a lot more miles than that,
> 
> Tip If you park your van up for more than a week, Don't leave it in gear and don't leave the hand brake on if atoll possible rather choke wheels as the brake shoes can rust and can bond to drums, Same with the clutch and if it bonds to the fly wheel you wont get it out of gear Start it up and run the engine press the clutch pedal few times and select a gear and just slip the clutch a few times just to clean the plates, Or better still give the van a short run,
> 
> ...


A stuck clutch will not weaken the diaphram,but if you ever get one stuck on the secret is either start her in gear down hill holding the pedal in but pumping the throttle and it wiil break free,not good for engine mounts but it works.
Second thing if you are going to leave van a long time jack it up so the tyres dont touch the ground as long standing squires/flat spots the tyres ,and yes hand brake of, but it dont mater leaving in or out of gear.
If hyd clutch watch out for master/slave cyl sticking.


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## sinner (Mar 10, 2016)

Bigwully said:


> Just popped in and read this thread. Cant believe the cost involved.  I should have stayed in the trade.  If its a Fiat /Boxer the normal price for a replacement clutch is just under £1000 at a franchised dealer and half that at a local one using non franchise parts.  Diagnosis on the clutch requires nothing other than a good mechanic with a bit of savy. Full replacement clutch, driven plate, pressure plate and bearing costs between £50 to £100, depending on model, parts are really cheap now.  I hope you have it all sorted out to your satisfaction by now.
> Best regards
> (fellow Scot not far from you)



sorted, but not to my satisfaction ie, I have to pay £1500 lol but hey I got a new clutch ))


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## maingate (Mar 10, 2016)

sinner said:


> sorted, but not to my satisfaction ie, I have to pay £1500 lol but hey I got a new clutch ))



What about the Dual Mass Flywheel Alan?

Is that included in the cost?


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## trevskoda (Mar 10, 2016)

maingate said:


> What about the Dual Mass Flywheel Alan?
> 
> Is that included in the cost?



I would like to think it was,any way most people dump them and fit standard flywheel.


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## maingate (Mar 10, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> I would like to think it was,any way most people dump them and fit standard flywheel.



Ford supply a standard flywheel to replace a DMF but Fiat don't Trev.


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## sinner (Mar 10, 2016)

maingate said:


> What about the Dual Mass Flywheel Alan?
> 
> Is that included in the cost?




No idea to be honest


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## kito (Mar 11, 2016)

*kito*



trevskoda said:


> A stuck clutch will not weaken the diaphram,but if you ever get one stuck on the secret is either start her in gear down hill holding the pedal in but pumping the throttle and it wiil break free,not good for engine mounts but it works.
> Second thing if you are going to leave van a long time jack it up so the tyres dont touch the ground as long standing squires/flat spots the tyres ,and yes hand brake of, but it dont mater leaving in or out of gear.
> If hyd clutch watch out for master/slave cyl sticking.



Hi If the clutch plate is stuck to fly wheel and also stuck to the pressure plate by pressing the pedal you are compressing diaphragm springs which is trying to pull the plate off flywheel so putting a lot strain extra strain on the spring , If its free the plate can slide on spigot shaft. 

What happens if van is facing uphill?


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## trevskoda (Mar 11, 2016)

maingate said:


> Ford supply a standard flywheel to replace a DMF but Fiat don't Trev.



Is there not after market ones though,i would have thought the iveco old type flywheel would fit.


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## maingate (Mar 11, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Is there not after market ones though,i would have thought the iveco old type flywheel would fit.



I think the 3.0 litre engine is not a modified 2.8 engine block Trev (but I could be wrong) and may have a totally different design, making the Flywheel very different. Without measuring the 2 types up, it would be impossible to say.

As Fiat are discontinuing manufacture of the 3.0 engine, I doubt anyone will spend time and money with a non DMF conversion.


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## Robmac (Mar 11, 2016)

sinner said:


> No idea to be honest



Ask them Alan. It may be important if you have problems with the DM in future.


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## trevskoda (Mar 11, 2016)

kito said:


> Hi If the clutch plate is stuck to fly wheel and also stuck to the pressure plate by pressing the pedal you are compressing diaphragm springs which is trying to pull the plate off flywheel so putting a lot strain extra strain on the spring , If its free the plate can slide on spigot shaft.
> 
> What happens if van is facing uphill?



Yes you are correct there will be extra pressure on dia but only when you first try to open clutch which will only be for a few seconds until it breaks free so no panic,i have done this many times on old classic cars saving folks a strip down,and how many times would some one park and leave a van pointing up hill for a long time common sense would tell you not to do this,in fact long lay ups are the worst thing to knacker any van/car,
The best advice i can give is keep it oiled and keep it moving.


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## The laird (Mar 11, 2016)

Check your invoice Alan as parts used will be on it .if nothing stated regarding flywheel ask them regarding warranty on the parts fitted if f/w were to cause a future failure.good engineering practice to replace the flywheel ESP at the cost you paid for the. job..there are a lot of clutch specialist fitting solid flywheels instead of dual mass  units.


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## trevskoda (Mar 11, 2016)

DM flywheels are in just about every thing these days ,how did we get along short on a 100 years without them ,seems to me just more clap trap to get money of us so i would dump at first opportunity .


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## trevskoda (Mar 11, 2016)

Correct david as i thought,it used to be engine mounts that broke with poor drivers and a bit of vib,repair parts about £30/50 now engine out for f/wheel and clutch so as you say when a vh gets older they are scraped as folk are told by workshop/salesmen you would be better putting the cost towards a new wagon.gotcha suckers:mad2:


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## janstevecairns (Mar 28, 2016)

Would I be right that a lot of the new shape ducatos Peugots etc or sevill had a problem with clucthes especially when reversing on a step incline.


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## trevskoda (Mar 29, 2016)

Just a we note on dmf,had a old time merk engineer here who told me if you change a new merk to solid f/w the main bearing caps will crack and losen resulting in engine falure big time,he said the engines are now built only to take the new flywheels and should never be changed,just wonder are any others like this.
I would think if ford or others sold replacements they will be ok though.


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