# low cost aires and camping stops



## runnach (Nov 25, 2018)

A bit quiet on here last couple of days, but I found this campers experiences interesting. we sometimes don't help ourselves


After being on the road for 5-6 weeks touring, we have spoken to many CL site owners .

It’s absolutely frightening how we as 
 caravan and camping club members and 
 Caravan and motor home 
 Members ,
 Abuse these people to the point that their electric bill , metered water bill and septic tank empty is way above their income .

It’s so out of hand the site I’m on has been telling me that people are arriving now with motor homes with electric cars to charge at site owners expense .

Heaters in awnings which are not allowed are left running all day when people go out along with central heating in vans.

Taps and showers are left running on some sites all night which us costly on metered supplies.

The electric car and leaving heating on takes the biscuit really and is forcing prices up and meteres to be fitted .

I wouldn’t run and maintain a cl for nothing , I’d shut it and turn it into storage as these people are doing or the lady in the highlands who’s just sold up due to overwhelming overheads .
 3k was this cl sites electric bill last quarter .
 They charge 16 a night.
 X5
 X7
 X12
 =6,720 
 Minus 3 k electricity 
 Minus water
 Minus upkeep 
 Minus commercial rates
 Minus commercial waste collection 
 Minus running at under occupancy.

Might as well put up price to £20 a nigh and Metre electric and charge fir shower.
 Or pack it up! 

Unless we all stop taking advantage of these smaller sites we’re going to loose them and people who like to tour all year on pensions and don’t want to
 Ever go near the large sites with kids on bikes , club houses, flags and light poles . And extortionate site fees will all loose the cl sites .

If a owner finds anyone absusing their hospitality they should ask them to leave and report back to club and membership needs to be cancelled.

Now rip me apart , 
 Tell me it’s ok I’m wrong ,
 Justify this ripping off the small sites


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## winks (Nov 25, 2018)

All true Andrew, I'm afraid.

The idea of leaving, or even using a heater in an awning is energy madness. Hard to square that with the seemingly endless quest for using solar and finding energy efficient ways of cooking etc. If we use small sites I try to be as frugal with the available resources as we are at home. Nobody would put the heating on and leave the windows open, would they?

Cheers

H


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## Deleted member 56601 (Nov 25, 2018)

Can't put all the fault on campers using what is available. Sad fact of life that some folk will take full advantage of everything.
CLs used to be places to park, fill water and empty waste. They then started supplying ehu, showers etc without putting in safeguards like metering the supplies.


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## harrow (Nov 25, 2018)

channa said:


> A bit quiet on here last couple of days, but I found this campers experiences interesting. we sometimes don't help ourselves
> 
> 
> After being on the road for 5-6 weeks touring, we have spoken to many CL site owners .
> ...



I was considering setting up a CL or CS in West Wales prior to the big C and this abuse was a concern, would campers fly tip etc. 

There would be no point having a CL or a CS if I did not enjoy it.


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## 1807truckman (Nov 25, 2018)

I totally agree, on the occasions we've used CL or CS sites we use some electric to charge batteries and we use the dump facilities, we've never left heating on when away from the van and it's never on at night. When we use small sites it's usually for a couple of nights while having a weekend away.
All the owners have been very helpful and welcoming and has been said we can't afford to loose them.

Graham









Urology nurses just take the pee.


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## mistericeman (Nov 25, 2018)

Sadly Andrew I don't think your far off the mark.... 'some' folks are just determined to take take take...
No great surprise that after moaning like mad about lack of provision of stop over opportunities that when some forward thinking authority actually provides somewhere.... Then folks moan about the cost.


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## Nesting Zombie (Nov 25, 2018)

Well in my view, Thease sites are ‘Businesses’ & it’s simply up to them to manage & police THEIR business in entirety Including Serveces, Costs & the abuse by some of these as many others do.
As some might know I Tour the country wilding probably 80% of the time, I DO use sites probably for Two nights a month when Traveling & Always prefer the smaller ones. It’s ultimately up to ME how much I am comfortable paying to use these services set by the individual businesses that I use, & my personal threshold is up to Around the £18 a night for a good site & Serveces they provide, or £5 if I just Dump, Fill & Shower.
I have just finished working on the first phase of a small upgrade to a site digging trenches & Laying in Serveces to provide Drainage, Water & 10a Electric to Hard standing 10mt Pitches at a particular site in North Yorkshire.
On a site in Dorset 
I put in Options for 10a Electric to Hard standing 8mt Pitches,
Another option is just Hardstanding 8mt Pitches,
Then Grass 8mt Or 6mt with 10a Electric,
Yet Other option of pitche are Grass 6mt Or 8mt & No Electric.
On a site in Cornwall I done
Just Hardstanding with 10a Electric OR Grass with or Without Said 10a Electric,
And so on, The point I’m trying to put forward is, The ‘Business’ sets the Prices for The Serveces provided & The Management Or Staff of that site should Police what customers have purchased & act on any abuse of such accordingly


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## alcam (Nov 25, 2018)

***** said:


> There is another side.
> I know a little farm campsite that charger £4 for electricity, even in the summer!
> That is also greed!



£4 !


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## delicagirl (Nov 25, 2018)

alcam said:


> £4 !





is that all?


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## delicagirl (Nov 25, 2018)

.16p per hour over 24 hours   - he is clearly trying to compensate for those idiots who use 2-3 kw fires  during the winter in an awning...... 

the man has to earn a living for goodness sakes.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 25, 2018)

At £4 they will be losing money with a lot of customers over 24hrs. It works out at less than 1kw per hour roughly.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 25, 2018)

channa said:


> A bit quiet on here last couple of days, but I found this campers experiences interesting. we sometimes don't help ourselves
> 
> 
> After being on the road for 5-6 weeks touring, we have spoken to many CL site owners .
> ...



Unfortunately non of that comes as a surprise.


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## harrow (Nov 25, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> At £4 they will be losing money with a lot of customers over 24hrs. It works out at less than 1kw per hour roughly.



It's also the cost of the electrician to install it and service it,

OK Paul might dig the trenches but Alf needs paying as well.


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## oppy (Nov 25, 2018)

I think that the site on Angelsey charges £5 for leccy. Back to cl /cs sites, we used one earlier this year when we went to a funeral and the owners were seriously thinking of closing it, not due to it being abused, but by the pressure from the C&CC to carry out expensive upgrades.


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## mickymost (Nov 25, 2018)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Well in my view, Thease sites are ‘Businesses’ & it’s simply up to them to manage & police THEIR business in entirety Including Serveces, Costs & the abuse by some of these as many others do.
> As some might know I Tour the country wilding probably 80% of the time, I DO use sites probably for Two nights a month when Traveling & Always prefer the smaller ones. It’s ultimately up to ME how much I am comfortable paying to use these services set by the individual businesses that I use, & my personal threshold is up to Around the £18 a night for a good site & Serveces they provide, or £5 if I just Dump, Fill & Shower.
> I have just finished working on the first phase of a small upgrade to a site digging trenches & Laying in Serveces to provide Drainage, Water & 10a Electric to Hard standing 10mt Pitches at a particular site in North Yorkshire.
> On a site in Dorset
> ...




Original poster says people are leaving heaters on in awnings.Surely this would be easy to check on.Also the charging of electric cars another easy so obvious thing to spot.So if caught chuck em off the site as surely its abuse and taking the P in a giant way.Sites are a business so the owners need to police their business and if people are not checked on then good luck to them if getting away with it!


Michael


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## mickymost (Nov 25, 2018)

delicagirl said:


> is that all?




Ref £4.00 for leccky

Probably dear for summer but fair for winter 

Michael


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## colinm (Nov 25, 2018)

Personally I'd like to see cl/cs stick to being 'cheap and cheerful', if I want full facilities I'll go to a site, if I need no facilities I can wild camp, but it's nice to have a range of options.


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## Nesting Zombie (Nov 25, 2018)

Probably ‘Pre Paid/Purchased’ card meters may be the way to go, Like PAYG Phone cards


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## runnach (Nov 25, 2018)

mickymost said:


> Ref £4.00 for leccky
> 
> Probably dear for summer but fair for winter
> 
> Michael



Possibly averaged out over the year ? My advice to those whinging over £4 for electricity is STOP AWAY like wise when I worked sites I never really had the time to go round checking on folks nor would I want too. There seems a fine line between being careful and not splashing the cash and freeloading/ abuse

Channa


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## runnach (Nov 25, 2018)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Probably ‘Pre Paid/Purchased’ card meters may be the way to go, Like PAYG Phone cards



I stopped regularly on a site with that arrangement in Hatfield near Doncaster . there was a notice not to use existing credits if applicable on the pitch but to purchase a token. I never asked but possibly any credit was set off against the overall site and the owners home. The owners were very accommodating left you to it and quite generous in other ways so it left the channa confused.

Cls and the ilk are certainly a different proposition to the monstrosities provided by such as Park resorts worth £ 4 just for the small and friendly laid back approach 

CHanna


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## Nesting Zombie (Nov 25, 2018)

Yeah, I’ve used Thease at various Marinas all over the place a few years back, If you plugged in to one with credit on it (Probably only pence) Then it was your good fortune, at the time you could either buy a card from the office  or from night security.
Seemed to work ok.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 25, 2018)

***** said:


> Well, I won't be paying £4, far too expensive for me as we use very little electricity.
> Don't forget this charge is summer time when most go camping
> 
> As a comparison, we were in Portugal and paid for the electricity we used and it worked out at €30  (EURO not £) for 32 days.
> A BIG difference!



As the post is about piss takers on Cl sites leaving heaters running 24hrs a day in Mhs and awnings  I don't see the relevance of the cost in Portugal. It is quite possible for them to use £18 of elec per day with a 16amp supply I certainly wouldn't want to supply elec at £4 per day in this country and neither would you I suspect.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 25, 2018)

***** said:


> The second paragraph of my post was just pointing out that some of us use very little electricity and that £4 would be excessive.
> It is better to pay per KW of usage then the piss takers would have to stop!



That I quite agree with.


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## Nabsim (Nov 25, 2018)

runnach said:


> Pre motohome days, we rented a cabin type lodge on the north west coast. When we booked in, lady took a meter reading, when we booked out, lady took a meter reading, we were aware of unit cost during the booking process and, we paid for units we used.
> 
> Perhaps these CL sites should do similar.



We stopped on a small site in Angelsey early this year and they did the same think for EHU. My bill for 2 days was 18 pence


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## Fazerloz (Nov 25, 2018)

***** said:


> Can I frame this:lol-061:



Feel free to.   :cheers:


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## rockape (Nov 25, 2018)

mickymost said:


> Original poster says people are leaving heaters on in awnings.Surely this would be easy to check on.Also the charging of electric cars another easy so obvious thing to spot.So if caught chuck em off the site as surely its abuse and taking the P in a giant way.Sites are a business so the owners need to police their business and if people are not checked on then good luck to them if getting away with it!
> 
> 
> Michael


 on some points I agree, however it does not sit well with me, as much as I love something for nothing.
I'm always willing to pay for leccy , providing it's not too expensive ( whatever your conscience is) remembering that most of us are greatful 
 after a few days tramping to get some warmth, light and all the other bits  that are linked to leccy.
On the bigger picture it's no different from dumping black and grey and filling up.
Abuse it at your peril, we will lose it all.


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## Silver sprinter (Nov 25, 2018)

Is there credit, to people who use generators, as  thay pay for what thay use,  just a thought!!!!:lol-053::lol-053::lol-053::lol-053::wave:


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## colinm (Nov 25, 2018)

runnach said:


> Pre motohome days, we rented a cabin type lodge on the north west coast. When we booked in, lady took a meter reading, when we booked out, lady took a meter reading, we were aware of unit cost during the booking process and, we paid for units we used.
> 
> Perhaps these CL sites should do similar.




It's a common practice on German sites, also I understand some UK site do this.


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## harrow (Nov 25, 2018)

I understand a problem for the site operator is not allowed to charge/resell at more per unit than the actual cost of the electricity,

however in doing that does not take into account the cost of installing the cables around the field and increasing the electric supply to the premises.

Taking this into consideration I would not be able to offer electric hookups.


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## Nesting Zombie (Nov 25, 2018)

harrow said:


> I understand a problem for the site operator is not allowed to charge/resell at more per unit than the actual cost of the electricity,
> 
> however in doing that does not take into account the cost of installing the cables around the field and increasing the electric supply to the premises.
> 
> Taking this into consideration I would not be able to offer electric hookups.



I think that they can charge a ‘Service’ charge as part of the bill but not alter the Electric Unit cost kinda thing, Ish,,Maybe !


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## trevskoda (Nov 25, 2018)

Edina said:


> Can't put all the fault on campers using what is available. Sad fact of life that some folk will take full advantage of everything.
> CLs used to be places to park, fill water and empty waste. They then started supplying ehu, showers etc without putting in safeguards like metering the supplies.



Houstons mill broughshane,we have it covered,no sniper of lecy here.


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## harrow (Nov 25, 2018)

Nesting Zombie said:


> I think that they can charge a ‘Service’ charge as part of the bill but not alter the Electric Unit cost kinda thing, Ish,,Maybe !



Yes agreed, like increase the site rent per night BUT not increase the price per unit of electricity above what the site owner actually pays.


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## trevskoda (Nov 25, 2018)

***** said:


> There is another side.
> I know a little farm campsite that charger £4 for electricity, even in the summer!
> That is also greed!



No folk still use m/waves & hot plates to cook, electric t/brushes ,hair driers,charge batterys etc winter or summer.


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## trevskoda (Nov 25, 2018)

alcam said:


> £4 !



Carry on camping,that will be a pound sydney.


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## trevskoda (Nov 25, 2018)

runnach said:


> I would have thought trying to charge an ecar on say 10 amp supply, would trip main fuse.



Think you can setup for low power as my mate charges at home from solar roof panels on garage charger.


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## harrow (Nov 25, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> Carry on camping,that will be a pound sydney.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 25, 2018)

runnach said:


> I would have thought trying to charge an ecar on say 10 amp supply, would trip main fuse.



Many EHUs are 16A and you can do a slow charge on house sockets so the plug should have a 13a fuse in at most. They will more than likely trip 10a. as they are up to 3kw.


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## colinm (Nov 25, 2018)

harrow said:


> I understand a problem for the site operator is not allowed to charge/resell at more per unit than the actual cost of the electricity,
> 
> however in doing that does not take into account the cost of installing the cables around the field and increasing the electric supply to the premises.
> 
> Taking this into consideration I would not be able to offer electric hookups.




It is perfectly permissible for the site owner to include the cost of installation in the charge, I can't be arsed looking it up at moment, but somewhere on government website there are guidelines to how it's calculated.


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## 2cv (Nov 25, 2018)

Even at the wonderful Green Frog it’s £4.50 a night extra for hook up. Can’t say I’ve ever felt ripped off at that.


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## barryd (Nov 25, 2018)

A few things spring to mind.  I like the way German Stellplatz are often on a meter.  Much better really.  You can take it or leave it and pay as much or as little as you want / need.  Also in France on private Aires electricity is often an option but its also often a much lower ampage.  I appreciate putting in meters on a CL is probably way too expensive especially if your retrospectively having to fit them but putting in a lower amp hookup say 6amps must be more straight forward surely.  Then just work out what the maximum is someone could use and price accordingly and separately.  I dont need hookup in the summer at all so dont want to have to pay for it and in winter the main priority is to keep the battery charged.  I think some sites abroad offer various price structures for higher ampage as well.


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## GeoffL (Nov 25, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> Houstons mill broughshane,we have it covered,no sniper of lecy here.



Seems similar to the Camperplatz in NL and many aires in France that are also on meters. At the Camperplatz in Valkenburg, electricity cost us €0.60 per kwH; €12 for three nights. We had the heater on low overnight and ran the fridge and water heater off mains. However, €12 seemed worth it as we were at the start of our five-week holiday and needed to conserve gas.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2018)

£4 for hookup seems perfectly reasonable to me - as has been said, it is the cost of initial provision, ongoing servicing, no doubt regular safety checks and certifications that need to be covered, etc.

18p for two days use charged? good value - for the camper.  very poor business for the site owner - apart from provision, what about the time cost of recording the initial reading, same again for the final reading, collecting the payment, recording the payments in their accounts, etc, etc.  (this is meant to be a business so those things ARE required).

I'm looking to move next year and was thinking about maybe a place which had room for a few campers/MHs.  And providing simple services like Hookup - but I sure wouldn't want to do it below cost!  £4 for a max 10A rated supply would be a minimum - and optional for those who didn't require it.


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## molly 2 (Nov 26, 2018)

Pays you play has to be the fairest way for site owners and campers .even in summer some campers can use a lot of leccy  running air conditioning all day .no wonder sites want us off by 10 00 .


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## jagmanx (Nov 26, 2018)

*Waste of energy is the issue for me*

Not reasonable usage

We use C&CC CS in April and September 
Mainly as it is cold.
Yes we use a fan heater a bit mainly in the evenings.
It runs at 1KW so even 5 hours running at 100% is 5KW hours which at domestic (20p per KWH) rates is £1
In fact with its thermostat control I suggest that actual usage is maybe 75% of my figure above
Given that EHU is £3 to £5 the Campsite is winning (even if their commercial rate is more!)
Yes campsites often include EHU but I expect that the minimum factor in is £3
Cost of other leccy use such as battery charging and lighting is minimal.
But I believe the Fridge can use a bit (until it has cooled down)

We choose not to use Leccy for any cooking (eg crockpot Induction cooker.......dare I say Remoska etc)
Our Hot water only uses gas !

I will pay £3 extra for EHU if needed BUT not £4 or £5

But I think the Main point from the OP is
"People taking the P155 and putting the viability of smaller campsites at risk"
I agree 100% with that sentiment


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## Deleted member 56601 (Nov 26, 2018)

A campsite, CL, call it what you like is a business.

I don’t see how any business supplying goods or services can use terms like ‘abuse’ or ‘ripping off’ when their customers use those goods or services.

If the business owner wants to restrict or regulate the supply of water or electricity, then the onus is on them to do so, not the customer.

To me it really is that simple.


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## Nesting Zombie (Nov 26, 2018)

It’s a ‘Package’ of Serveces offered that the business supplies to attract customers the same as MOST businesses do.
A site that I stayed on back in end Oct charged me £18 for The Nest & Me on a Safe Hardstanding Pitch, with 10a Electric, Hot showers, Clean Heated Toilet & Shower Block, As much water as I needed, Chemical Toilet Dump Facilities, Domestic Waste Dump Facilities, Grey water Dump Facilities, Ground Lighting, TV Room, included in the price charged that covers The Nest & up to TWO adults as a Package.
In addition to which if I wanted 
Sauna Facilities (Extra £2), Pool Facilities (Extra £1.50).
There was only one of me (& I’m half Dead)
I arrived at 16:00 left at 10:00 = 18hrs
I’m very happy with paying £1 an hour for my stay at that business, I’ve paid similar JUST for a space in a Carpark with NOTHING else supplied !.


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## runnach (Nov 26, 2018)

Nesting Zombie said:


> It’s a ‘Package’ of Serveces offered that the business supplies to attract customers the same as MOST businesses do.
> A site that I stayed on back in end Oct charged me £18 for The Nest & Me on a Safe Hardstanding Pitch, with 10a Electric, Hot showers, Clean Heated Toilet & Shower Block, , as much water as I needed, Chemical Toilet Dump Facilities, Domestic Waste Dump Facilities, Ground Lighting, TV Room, included in the price charged that covers The Nest & up to TWO adults as a Package.
> In addition to which if I wanted
> Sauna Facilities (Extra £2), Pool Facilities (Extra £1.50).
> ...



I guess in some ways general parking puts things in context

The site above doesn't sound like a cl so a slightly different scenario and business model perhaps

The other consideration when we start applying our business brains is off peak/off season a lot of sites see their fees as contributory income to offset against overheads which people often forget still apply when a the site closes for winter typically re opening Easter. one big gripe people have is the six week school holidays last 2 weeks of July first two of August prices sky rocket. Profiteering or simple supply and demand ?

I think the original posters point I quoted is not whether £3 or £x represents fair value for electricity but customers abusing services leaving heaters on all day etc when out awnings the biggest offenders. the fair line between legitimate heavy useage and abiuse seems clouded

Channa


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## mistericeman (Nov 26, 2018)

***** said:


> Further to above, this thread got me thinking that although this is a wild camping site, it seems that many members do use campsites and do use electricity.
> I can honestly say, that in the last year, we have only had electricity for two nights and that was when we were at a business campsite having our alarm fitted. The electricity price was inclusive and no separate charges.
> Maybe this is why I was or maybe a little out of touch with charges.
> So although this is a wild camping site, how many don't use electricity?



Used hook up the first time this weekend gone with the new van as its just factory at the moment so no solar etc.... 
We've never used hook up in the last 3 years with the transit as I built it to be completely self sufficient power wise. 

Ill likely be adapting the new van to be self sufficient over time as I don't like needing hook up.


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## wints (Nov 26, 2018)

We were on Tewkesbury CC site last year...warm evening..caravanner next door had awning front down, and 2 infra-red heaters suspended from the awning roof, him and his wife were flat out on loungers with their cozzies on...I mentioned this to the site warden the day after, he just shrugged his shoulders and said that as EHU was included then not a lot he could do.

It's very rare that we use sites, and if there was an option for non ehu pitch, we'd have it.

Cl's that have installed ehu / loos / showers are not on our shopping list.

Allen


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## delicagirl (Nov 26, 2018)

***** said:


> As I said in my posts, I do or did think that £4 was too expensive (before reading this thread) and like the post above I am happy with £3 but £4 makes me not book!
> However as I have NEVER paid £4 and very very rarely use hook up. it does seem that maybe, I am out of touch with what campsite electricity charges now are, so maybe I will review my stance and just maybe I would pay the £4
> Or I could be a tight arse as I have been accused of!:lol-049::banana:



my previous post was removed *****...    it could have been because i was implying what you are happy to laugh about  !!!   i just wonder how much more than £1 you might spend in fuel looking for a place with electric at £3 rather than £4 -  maybe false economy ?

In the winter i use sites in the winter for a few nights stay and the last one i used a couple of weeks ago charged £13 and they had everything you could possibly want  -  laundry, irons, pay phone (in a no signal area), private family room for showering, immaculately clean facilities and a great shop - and how any one could make any money out of me at that nightly rate is beyond me. In the summer i use a site weekly for a very long hot shower and waste/water stop. 

 if we dont use sites we will lose them and then where will be put out waste??


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## delicagirl (Nov 26, 2018)

***** said:


> First, what do you mean laugh about? the only person mentioning laughing is YOU!
> 
> 
> 
> ...






""""Or I could be a tight arse as I have been accused of!     """    the smilies you put here (which dont seem to have copied over)  seemed to be to indicate  you found my  earlier comment funny ?


it does amuse me though  that we are talking about such a small amount of money  ......


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## delicagirl (Nov 26, 2018)

you made my morning brighter *****  :lol-053::rabbit::wave::lol-049::nothingtoadd:


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## QFour (Nov 26, 2018)

It would be nice to have the choice with Electricity wether you wanted it or not. We stopped on one CL in Norfolk the other year and he was saying that he had a couple of Motorhomes and a couple of Caravans on earlier in the year and they used so much electric he would have been better off telling them to leave.

The C&MC the other year had a question on the forum about the best fan heaters to use in an awning as they wanted to keep it warm for when they came back. Problem is that they think they are missing out because they are being charged for it so they have to use it. The Caravaners now want fully serviced pitches on CL's because the C&MC Sites are getting very expensive.

CL's could always drop the supply to 6 amps which would certainly cut down on the use of heating but provide enough for the fridge.


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## witzend (Nov 26, 2018)

When you consider the cost of electric and the cost of the installation of the system 4£ doesn't seem a lot for Electric compared to buying a £800 + Honda generator for stand by use


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## guerdeval (Nov 26, 2018)

Yes, the C&MC and the C&CC are getting expensive and it's easy to see why if you read through these posts.  The same business model exists for large or small, charge enough you make a profit, charge too little you make a loss and eventually go out of business.  £4 for electricity may seem a lot for some but others probably use a lot more, solution, pay for what you use. Metering is the only workable solution but of course this is exactly the wrong website to extol such ideas, many on here want something for nothing, some on here boasting they've "never paid for a TV licence" as if that's a virtue! , you'll never change SOME peoples attitudes towards getting something for nothing or paying a fair price for a service.


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## Glass man (Nov 26, 2018)

Many sites in Denmark and Sweden as well as other countries charge for electricity by the amount you use. This seems fare to me.
In winter I pay €0.50 for 1Kwh which is quite enough to recharge the batteries. 
FRIDGE and heating on LPG.
The fridge might cost €1 or so depending on size if used on electricity and the heating,  typically €1.50 an hour.
So I end up paying a small amount to keep the batteries charged and then €1 to €2 for the gas used.
Some friends own a small site and deliberately limit the electricity to 5Amps.


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## barryd (Nov 26, 2018)

QFour said:


> It would be nice to have the choice with Electricity wether you wanted it or not. We stopped on one CL in Norfolk the other year and he was saying that he had a couple of Motorhomes and a couple of Caravans on earlier in the year and they used so much electric he would have been better off telling them to leave.
> 
> The C&MC the other year had a question on the forum about the best fan heaters to use in an awning as they wanted to keep it warm for when they came back. Problem is that they think they are missing out because they are being charged for it so they have to use it. The Caravaners now want fully serviced pitches on CL's because the C&MC Sites are getting very expensive.
> 
> *CL's could always drop the supply to 6 amps which would certainly cut down on the use of heating but provide enough for the fridge*.



As I mentioned earlier.  Why do we need 16amp hookups?  How easy would it be to put in a hookup point with say a 6amp or 10amp switch that only the owner can set?  £3 for 6amp or £7 for 10amp. That would focus the abusers a bit.


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## delicagirl (Nov 26, 2018)

guerdeval said:


> Yes, the C&MC and the C&CC are getting expensive and it's easy to see why if you read through these posts.  The same business model exists for large or small, charge enough you make a profit, charge too little you make a loss and eventually go out of business.  £4 for electricity may seem a lot for some but others probably use a lot more, solution, pay for what you use. Metering is the only workable solution but of course this is exactly the wrong website to extol such ideas, many on here want something for nothing, some on here boasting they've "never paid for a TV licence" as if that's a virtue! , you'll never change SOME peoples attitudes towards getting something for nothing or paying a fair price for a service.





I chose to spend a week on  Mendip Heights campsite last month to write and to get peace and quiet.  I was astonished at how hard the franchisees work. They open their shop i think at 8.30am and this is after they have baked fresh bread and pastries, and the shop is open till 11.00am i think and reopens a couple of hours later after they have cleaned all the facilities to an immaculate standard.   They are available till 8.00pm for late arrivals but wont turn anyone away. The amount of on-site maintanence that is required due to thoughtless campers is a part of their routine   -  repairing stone walls where kids have clambered all over them in spite of notices, removing rubbish left on pitchers, mowing the grass on a huge site (even in october), running the well stocked shop, answering dumb questions and being the most helpful couple. They have almost no time to themselves -  and this was in October  when the site was not full.  Their fees are not extortionate -  their site is pristine, with showers like at home. They take 1 weeks holiday in the winter and then its back to site maintainance ...  i wouldn't like it as a job...

They charge £8.35 - £14.10 per person per night -  which is not unreasonable.


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## Nabsim (Nov 26, 2018)

In my previous post where I put I was charged 18p for 2 days leccy use it was to illustrate that some CL’s do have metered connections and will charge for what you use. I believe that is the best way as if you use nothing you pay nothing. In the summer if there is a choice I will take a pitch with no Ehu as my solar is enough. In bad weather/winter it looks like I need power. If a site only offers ehu pitches as some cl,s I have stopped at do then I pay whatever the rate is.

Until very recently the only 240v device we had was the built in microwave (we have softened butter twice this year) appear from on board battery chargers. In October I bought an electric kettle as I knew I was going on a site for a weekend to meet up with a friend. If I need a pitch with ehu then I am happy to pay the charge, if I don’t need ehu then really I shouldn’t have to pay for it. It isn’t me being tight but the site owner not providing what customers need. The costs of providing any services are the business cost and the owners should factor this in to their business model. If people are charged for what they use then there can be no argument.

We stay on a site every few days when away to empty cassettes and fill with water and do washing and whatever else. We don’t need much other than this so cl’s are good in the uk as there isn’t really much else to use. If the cost of this is £5 or £25 then that’s what we pay, I don’t begrudge the costs and everyone needs to earn a shilling. Metering is the RIGHT way though.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2018)

barryd said:


> As I mentioned earlier.  Why do we need 16amp hookups?  How easy would it be to put in a hookup point with say a 6amp or 10amp switch that only the owner can set?  £3 for 6amp or £7 for 10amp. That would focus the abusers a bit.


That is - IMO - precisely the way to do it.

My van has no gas (except for portable cooking outside) and I cook on an induction hob and heat water via a water heater - either would trip a 6A supply but that doesn't matter as I can use them on the battery anyway and overnight the battery charger will replenish the energy used.
In my earlier post I said I'd look at a 10A supply - in hindsight that is too high as a standard - 6A is sufficient for just about anything a camper is likely to NEED to plug in.  It is enough for a 1kW heater even on top of having a battery charger plugged in.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> In my previous post where I put I was charged 18p for 2 days leccy use it was to illustrate that some CL’s do have metered connections and will charge for what you use. I believe that is the best way as if you use nothing you pay nothing. In the summer if there is a choice I will take a pitch with no Ehu as my solar is enough. In bad weather/winter it looks like I need power. If a site only offers ehu pitches as some cl,s I have stopped at do then I pay whatever the rate is.
> 
> Until very recently the only 240v device we had was the built in microwave (we have softened butter twice this year) appear from on board battery chargers. In October I bought an electric kettle as I knew I was going on a site for a weekend to meet up with a friend. If I need a pitch with ehu then I am happy to pay the charge, if I don’t need ehu then really I shouldn’t have to pay for it. It isn’t me being tight but the site owner not providing what customers need. The costs of providing any services are the business cost and the owners should factor this in to their business model. If people are charged for what they use then there can be no argument.
> 
> *We stay on a site every few days when away to empty cassettes and fill with water and do washing and whatever else. We don’t need much other than this so cl’s are good in the uk as there isn’t really much else to use. If the cost of this is £5 or £25 then that’s what we pay, I don’t begrudge the costs and everyone needs to earn a shilling. Metering is the RIGHT way though*.


IS it though?
to collect that 18p (in your example) takes time and effort on the part of the business over and above the cost to them of the electricity consumed.  so they will running at a loss on the electrical provision (especially when you include the infrastructure to provide and maintain the hookup facility). 
And if that 18p was the actual cost of the power used, it doesn't matter if you used £18 worth instead - the site owner has still made the same losses as that 18p, or £18, or whatever, goes straight to paying their electric bill. 

Overall the business has to make money otherwise it would not be a business.  So the losses they incur in the hookup provision will have to be covered for elsewhere - probably in the site fees.    So now people who are power-independant and don't need hookup (like you in the summertime) ARE actually having to pay for - and so subsidise - those folk who are using hookup.
So what is fairer?  those who want hookup pay for it?, or everyone pay for hookup to a degree, whether they use it or not?

It is no different to the 'old days' when in the house you had a meter for electricity used, plus a daily standing charge.  Maybe that is the way it needs to be at a campsite?  a metered supply so you pay for what you use, PLUS  a daily standard charge for those who want EHU that will cover the ongoing provosion and maintenance of the service.  

As I am typing this, I am thinking that seems in fact the fairest way to do it and you could then have a standard 16A supply for people to use what they want as they are the ones paying for it.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2018)

PS.  For those who think £4 is a lot per day, try going to a typical VW Festival - Hookup at those are often £25


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## GeoffL (Nov 26, 2018)

Thinking on it, I'd like to see card-type meters. Either that accept a credit card to pre-pay for electricity, or a key card that you pre-load when you book in and for which you pay a deposit, which you'd get back when you handed back the key card on 'check out'. Perhaps any unused funds could be refunded at check out as you'd then be more inclined to load more than you need at check in than disturb the site operators later to top up again during your stay.

IIRC & FWIW, the coin-operated meters at Valkenburg only accepted €1 and €2 coins -- so no chance of the meters getting filled up with low-value coins.


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## colinm (Nov 26, 2018)

wildebus said:


> IS it though?
> to collect that 18p (in your example) takes time and effort on the part of the business over and above the cost to them of the electricity consumed.  so they will running at a loss on the electrical provision (especially when you include the infrastructure to provide and maintain the hookup facility).
> And if that 18p was the actual cost of the power used, it doesn't matter if you used £18 worth instead - the site owner has still made the same losses as that 18p, or £18, or whatever, goes straight to paying their electric bill.
> 
> ...




It seems to work in Germany on campsites, it does however tie down the owner to making sure some one is available to operate the system, they also often have card systems for showers and washing machines and on one site (might have been Netherlands) a token operated dishwasher. For large sites it's just factoring in the costs when there's a large staff, for a cl/cs it could tie down the owner more than they want, but the cost is neither here nor there if your not doing anything else or other work fits around it.

One site we stayed on in France(out of season) we rocked up about 4pm and sign said "choose a pitch we will be in office between 9am-11am and 5pm-7pm", luckily it was not a metered site as nobody came before we left a 10am the next day!


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## vindiboy (Nov 26, 2018)

Well if something is free or all inclusive someone will take advantage, so it is down to the site owners to meter things like water and electric so they do not get fleeced Simples ? I often hear motorhomers on CCC rallies say we never fill up with water at home, we are on a meter , so we fill upon the site when we arrive and then leave with a full tank.
   I personally do not see the need for electric hook ups , our van runs very well on gas and solar.


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## maingate (Nov 26, 2018)

vindiboy said:


> Well if something is free or all inclusive someone will take advantage, so it is down to the site owners to meter things like water and electric so they do not get fleeced Simples ? I often hear motorhomers on CCC rallies say we never fill up with water at home, we are on a meter , so we fill upon the site when we arrive and then leave with a full tank.
> I personally do not see the need for electric hook ups , our van runs very well on gas and solar.



I agree with you. It is the state of British Society today, more and more people seem to have that attitude.

We use the C&CC THS a lot and notice a difference in attitude between Motorhomers and Tuggers. The Tuggers are generally more friendly. As for hookups, we use them so rarely that I have to check the manual to remind me which controls to use on 240 volts.


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## GeoffL (Nov 26, 2018)

hairydog said:


> I don't quite understand why a motorhome would use a caravan site, so perhaps the motorhomers on them are atypical.



I suspect that the majority of motorhomers use campsites. I'm not saying here that the majority of motorhomers don't wild camp, just that the majority use campsites at some time.

FWIW, we're members of both the C&CC and the C&MC and have used campsites and certified sites/locations of both clubs over the last year. We have a motorhome because it gives us more choice and flexibility than a caravan would. That said, we're only in our second year with a MH and were caravanners for decades before. When we were tuggers, we had to book every trip weeks in advance to be confident of having a pitch. With the motorhome, we can turn up on spec (although we usually phone ahead) and if there's no pitch for us then we can find a nearby pub stop or wild camp. IMO, a motorhome is a better option for touring while a caravan is a better option for staying in one place for the duration and exploring from that base.

As to behaviour at C&CC rallies, my experience doesn't match maingate's. We spent a few seasons rallying with our local DA as tuggers. The vast majority of motorhomers, caravanners and tenters were friendly and welcoming.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 26, 2018)

wildebus said:


> That is - IMO - precisely the way to do it.
> 
> My van has no gas (except for portable cooking outside) and I cook on an induction hob and heat water via a water heater - either would trip a 6A supply but that doesn't matter as I can use them on the battery anyway and overnight the battery charger will replenish the energy used.
> In my earlier post I said I'd look at a 10A supply - in hindsight that is too high as a standard - 6A is sufficient for just about anything a camper is likely to NEED to plug in.  It is enough for a 1kW heater even on top of having a battery charger plugged in.



That would depend on the charger used.


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## Caz (Nov 26, 2018)

I think maybe it's swings and roundabouts on this. Maybe some do use more than they are paying for but there must be others who use less.

This weekend, I stayed on a C&CC CS for one night. There was no choice, EHU was included. They didn't have showers or toilets - which I would have found much more useful than EHU. Of course, this time of year there isn't a lot of choice if you want a site as most have closed for the winter anyway.

I arrived about 4pm and left next morning about 9am, so the EHU was only plugged in for about 17 hours, charging the battery (pretty full anyway from a long run) to power the light (i'm used to wild camping and don't put more than one on at a time), and powering the fridge. I had a 750 watt heater on for about 6 hours in the evening and a couple of hours in the morning and boiled the low wattage small kettle a couple of times. Not excessive use, I wouldn't think?

For a few years, when using my Trooper, there hasn't been the room to carry a big heavy EHU lead, never mind anything else that runs off mains, and I have begrudged campsites whose fees included EHU so I've had to pay for it even though not using it. I complained the CaMC about this and their answer was "everyone wants EHU, that's why we went to a lot of expense to install it on all pitches". "The only way we could allow non-use of EHU would be by installing meters on every pitch and it would cost far too much to do that".

Why couldn't they just put an off switch on a small % of pitches?

Re the OP - I think it is up to the CS/CL owners to make sure that folk aren't taking the mick and plugging their electric cars in or leaving heaters on in awnings - they can tell them to desist. They should have membership numbers of the offenders so, if they refuse, the owners can report transgressions to HQ, surely? Get them blacklisted or something.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> That would depend on the charger used.


Well Duh. Obviously it would! But most people don't have a >40A Mains Charger fitted


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## colinm (Nov 26, 2018)

Caz said:


> Re the OP - I think it is up to the CS/CL owners to make sure that folk aren't taking the mick and plugging their electric cars in or leaving heaters on in awnings - they can tell them to desist. They should have membership numbers of the offenders so, if they refuse, the owners can report transgressions to HQ, surely? Get them blacklisted or something.



We have similar usage to you when obliged to take EHU.

I don't believe in banning or blacklisting people for power use, once you start on that route it's a slippery slope to banning everything, and if I was running a cl/cs I certainly wouldn't want to be constantly policing it for power use, if it was a concern I'd either go for restricted power such as 6amp, or metering.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 26, 2018)

wildebus said:


> Well Duh. Obviously it would! But most people don't have a >40A Mains Charger fitted



No but plenty have 20/25A  chargers as standard fitment  and they would take a breaker out. Not everyone uses Lidl specials. Duh


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## ScoTTyBEEE (Nov 26, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> No but plenty have 20/25A  chargers as standard fitment  and they would take a breaker out. Not everyone uses Lidl specials. Duh



25A - 300/350w. That wouldn't take a breaker out on a 6A supply, it wouldn't even trip on a 2A supply.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> No but plenty have 20/25A  chargers as standard fitment  and they would take a breaker out. Not everyone uses Lidl specials. Duh


try some maths 

Duh Duh Duh Dummmm


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## maingate (Nov 26, 2018)

hairydog said:


> I don't quite understand why a motorhome would use a caravan site, so perhaps the motorhomers on them are atypical.



I'm sure most members are glad you like to be on your own. :dance:


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## Debroos (Nov 26, 2018)

delicagirl said:


> my previous post was removed *****...    it could have been because i was implying what you are happy to laugh about  !!!   i just wonder how much more than £1 you might spend in fuel looking for a place with electric at £3 rather than £4 -  maybe false economy ?
> 
> In the winter i use sites in the winter for a few nights stay and the last one i used a couple of weeks ago charged £13 and they had everything you could possibly want  -  laundry, irons, pay phone (in a no signal area), private family room for showering, immaculately clean facilities and a great shop - and how any one could make any money out of me at that nightly rate is beyond me. In the summer i use a site weekly for a very long hot shower and waste/water stop.
> 
> if we dont use sites we will lose them and then where will be put out waste??



Was that a regular campsite for £13?


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## wanderingwill (Nov 26, 2018)

im supprised at the abuse of electricity on cls ..but then i never hookup i like to be independent and this pays off for me on a pension ..better add i live alone so no doubt this helps


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## Debroos (Nov 26, 2018)

We use cls with hook up sometimes in winter as we have no other heating. They have had loads of sites closing down for the last couple of years and not enough new ones opening.
Presumably excess electic usage is part of the story. I notice that some of the new ones that do open charge as much as £20 a night...grue...what a shame.


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## GeoffL (Nov 26, 2018)

FWIW, I received the following message from the C&MC today:





> We wanted to give you advance notice that from 5 December 2018, we’ll be making a small price increase to 2019 UK Club Site prices. This is to cover the rising price of utilities and the day to day costs of running a network of 160 UK Club Sites.


More information is available on the C&MC website, but I wonder how much of the increase is due to what's being discussed in this thread?


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## maingate (Nov 26, 2018)

GeoffL said:


> I suspect that the majority of motorhomers use campsites. I'm not saying here that the majority of motorhomers don't wild camp, just that the majority use campsites at some time.
> 
> FWIW, we're members of both the C&CC and the C&MC and have used campsites and certified sites/locations of both clubs over the last year. We have a motorhome because it gives us more choice and flexibility than a caravan would. That said, we're only in our second year with a MH and were caravanners for decades before. When we were tuggers, we had to book every trip weeks in advance to be confident of having a pitch. With the motorhome, we can turn up on spec (although we usually phone ahead) and if there's no pitch for us then we can find a nearby pub stop or wild camp. IMO, a motorhome is a better option for touring while a caravan is a better option for staying in one place for the duration and exploring from that base.
> 
> *As to behaviour at C&CC rallies, my experience doesn't match maingate's.* We spent a few seasons rallying with our local DA as tuggers. The vast majority of motorhomers, caravanners and tenters were friendly and welcoming.



I was not talking about the local weekend Meets where most attendees are regulars, get to know each other and become friends. I am talking about the longer term Temporary Holiday Sites. You are talking about different circumstances where people travel longer distances to attend these THS.


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## alcam (Nov 26, 2018)

Debroos said:


> We use cls with hook up sometimes in winter as we have no other heating. They have had loads of sites closing down for the last couple of years and not enough new ones opening.
> Presumably excess electic usage is part of the story. I notice that some of the new ones that do open charge as much as £20 a night...grue...what a shame.



Surely the point is the site owner provides a service and charges a price , £4 or whatever . He makes a profit .
Some on here seem to think that is wrong ? Do you go to a pub and expect a pint for cost price ?
Always laugh on here when some town or county has put a ban on motorhomes , there is always at least one 'we'll take our money elsewhere' post . Like thats not what you do normally !


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## Fazerloz (Nov 26, 2018)

ScoTTyBEEE said:


> 25A - 300/350w. That wouldn't take a breaker out on a 6A supply, it wouldn't even trip on a 2A supply.



If your going to join in keep up and read all the posts please. and do some homework on what a 20-25Amp charger actually comsumes.



wildebus said:


> try some maths
> 
> Duh Duh Duh Dummmm



My maths isn't bad usually..



wildebus said:


> That is - IMO - precisely the way to do it.
> 
> My van has no gas (except for portable cooking outside) and I cook on an induction hob and heat water via a water heater - either would trip a 6A supply but that doesn't matter as I can use them on the battery anyway and overnight the battery charger will replenish the energy used.
> In my earlier post I said I'd look at a 10A supply - in hindsight that is too high as a standard - 6A is sufficient for just about anything a camper is likely to NEED to plug in.  It is enough for a 1kW heater even on top of having a battery charger plugged in.



Lets make it simple 1000w / 230v = 4.3A  .
20-25A Ctek charger which are fairly well regarded.According to their spec sheet 2.9A --------------------- 4.3A+2.9A= 7.2A   At the worst and we use 240v instead of 230v its still works out at 7A.
How long will a 6A breaker last before it trips do you think. 
Dummmmm Dummmm  Duhhhhhhh


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> If your going to join in keep up and read all the posts please. and do some homework on what a 20-25Amp charger actually comsumes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you have a 25A Charger that comsumes 2.9A?  Seriously?  that is an efficiency of less than 50%!  I suspect CTEK would take exception to your allegation.
Lets take a more realistic example shall we?  Say the Victron 12/25 IP22 Charger.  That has an efficiency of 93%

Nows let's so some maths.  And let's make it extreme case.  Incoming voltage at 230V.  30A output at 14.4V with losses of 7% in the process.  So that adds up to 1.68A.
1000W heater is 4.3A by your maths .... so a total of 5.98A  - perfect for a 6A breaker :banana: :cool1: :raofl:

Now a 40A charger at full tilt might actually be pushing it but just have turn the heater down - or maybe turn the charger down  (or in YOUR case, get a proper charger  )


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## Fazerloz (Nov 26, 2018)

wildebus said:


> you have a 25A Charger that comsumes 2.9A?  Seriously?  that is an efficiency of less than 50%!  I suspect CTEK would take exception to your allegation.
> Lets take a more realistic example shall we?  Say the Victron 12/25 IP22 Charger.  That has an efficiency of 93%
> 
> Nows let's so some maths.  And let's make it extreme case.  Incoming voltage at 230V.  30A output at 14.4V with losses of 7% in the process that is 2A current draw.  So  that adds up to 1.68A.
> ...



Trouble reading.? Or is it normal just to read the bits you like. I said the  2.9A was from Cteks own spec sheet. Its not just a best guess to make my figures fit. Maybe they don't try to use smoke and mirrors like some companies.

Victron what they do give you is a consumption figure of 0.5w with no load. They do not give you a figure under full load, which is the bit that matters. neither do they tell you what part of the cycle the 93% is achieved. More than likely at the no load stage. If you have one, shove a meter on it when it is churning out its 30A and tell us what its actual consumption rate is at its worst point.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> Trouble reading.? Or is it normal just to read the bits you like. I said the  2.9A was from Cteks own spec sheet. Its not just a best guess to make my figures fit. Maybe they don't try to use smoke and mirrors like some companies.
> 
> Victron what they do give you is a consumption figure of 0.5w with no load. They do not give you a figure under full load, which is the bit that matters. neither do they tell you what part of the cycle the 93% is achieved. More than likely at the no load stage. If you have one, shove a meter on it when it is churning out its 30A and tell us what its actual consumption rate is at its worst point.


Well my 93% efficiency is from Victons own printed Product Catalog that they sent me.
if you think a 2.9A power draw from a 25A charger is acceptable, then good on you.  I have a bridge going cheap if you are interested.  50% off so better than a CTEK :dance:
If I do do a campsite anfd you happen along, let me know and I'll put in a bigger breaker for your CTEK charger


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## alwaysared (Nov 26, 2018)

molly 2 said:


> Pays you play has to be the fairest way for site owners and campers .even in summer some campers can use a lot of leccy  running air conditioning all day .no wonder sites want us off by 10 00 .



I went on a site in Derbyshire that did just that, you had a card from them and put any amount you wanted on it and then put it in the meter, when you'd finished you went back to the site office and they put the card in a reader and refunded any money you had left on it, seemed fair way to do it to me, not only do you pay for what you've used you actually start thinking about what you turn for fear of having to go and top up again lol.

Kind regards,
Del


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## delicagirl (Nov 26, 2018)

Debroos said:


> Was that a regular campsite for £13?



it was the caravan and camping club and she gave me member rates.   this site is in the top 100 of the CCC sites in their literature.


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## Biggarmac (Nov 27, 2018)

delicagirl said:


> it was the caravan and camping club and she gave me member rates.   this site is in the top 100 of the CCC sites in their literature.



A single camper is often better on a C&CC site, especially when over 60.  For instance at the Green Frog Moffat someone just turning up pays £12.50 for an electric pitch.  On the club site next door it is less than £12 for a hardstanding with electric pitch.  The Caravan club has a per person fee as well ( no OAP discount though).  As a single camper I seldom use CLs or CSs because the clubs suggest they charge such high fees.


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## GeoffL (Nov 27, 2018)

delicagirl said:


> it was the caravan and camping club and she gave me member rates.   this site is in the top 100 of the CCC sites in their literature.



Out of season, the C&MC club sites are reasonably priced. We used them a lot earlier this year, staying at C&MC club sites or pub stops for a week or two either side of the March Manouche festival in Anglesey, paying £15 - £16 a night for two people with EHU and full site facilities. However, those same sites in high season usually cost at least twice that.


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## harrow (Nov 28, 2018)

Well you lot have convinced me, 

it's better to have a grass field just growing weeds, 

than a bunch of whingeing campers complaining about paying £4 a night.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 28, 2018)

wildebus said:


> you have a 25A Charger that comsumes 2.9A?  Seriously?  that is an efficiency of less than 50%!  I suspect CTEK would take exception to your allegation.
> Lets take a more realistic example shall we?  Say the Victron 12/25 IP22 Charger.  That has an efficiency of 93%
> 
> Nows let's so some maths.  And let's make it extreme case.  Incoming voltage at 230V.  30A output at 14.4V with losses of 7% in the process.  So that adds up to 1.68A.
> ...



Well I decided to get my information straight from the horses mouth. So I contacted Victron themselves. Not just someone who sold them or the distributor but the head honchos. 
The reply was not  your 1.68A but 2.02A. So not quite so perfect for the 6A breaker. But then I guess they could be wrong.


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## wildebus (Nov 28, 2018)

Fazerloz said:


> Well I decided to get my information straight from the horses mouth. So I contacted Victron themselves. Not just someone who sold them or the distributor but the head honchos.
> The reply was not  your 1.68A but 2.02A. So not quite so perfect for the 6A breaker. But then I guess they could be wrong.


good info - and also a hell of a lot better than the 2.9A of the CTEK.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 28, 2018)

wildebus said:


> good info - and also a hell of a lot better than the 2.9A of the CTEK.



It is . If you know of anyone with one in their van be sure to tell them . Oh and by the way, I haven't .


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## QFour (Nov 29, 2018)

As I said earlier a 6 amps supply would limit the amount of electricity used but as others have said you may need more. On boats that use more power than the 16 amps available on the pontoons they use a double cable and connect to two outlets giving them 32 amps. Both outlets would be on the same phase. Something similar could be used on CL's or Club sites as a simple way to give extra power.

One of the problems of course is the manufacturers and suppliers of camping equipment. When we first started camping many years ago when it got dark you went to bed. Flash lights were battery powered and didn't last long especially if you forgot to switch them off. Now days you have Electric Hobs, Blown Air Heating, Central Heating, Oil Radiators, Fan Heaters, Microwaves, Fridges, Freezers, Battery Charges, Electric Bike Charges, Electric Car Chargers, Electric Ovens and many other 12v items that run off the caravan / Mh 12v Dc Supply.

The problem at the moment is the guy who turns up with his Electric Everything is paying the same as someone who just plugs the fridge in. Something fairer certainly needs to be done and the low user should not have to subsidise the high users

..


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## Drover (Nov 29, 2018)

harrow said:


> Well you lot have convinced me,
> 
> it's better to have a grass field just growing weeds,
> 
> than a bunch of whingeing campers complaining about paying £4 a night.




I have thought of it on our couple of acres in a conservation area, 
It's still in weeds for this very reason,   electric abuse... or the cost to rectify it.
c&mc club also didn't like the idea of an honesty box , though they wanted showers, electric and water alongside waste disposal.


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## harrow (Nov 29, 2018)

chrisjones18 said:


> I have thought of it on our couple of acres in a conservation area,
> It's still in weeds for this very reason,   electric abuse... or the cost to rectify it.
> c&mc club also didn't like the idea of an honesty box , though they wanted showers, electric and water alongside waste disposal.



I though it would make a interesting hobby but you would get a load of grief and would be out of pocket as well.

Weeds don't whinge !


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## kenj (Nov 29, 2018)

*CL site*

I was on a small CL cold day and had my diesel heater on away from everyone quite the owner asked what it was and said have you not got a electric heater I replied it’s quicker and does not cost much to run then the owner pointed out your not plugged into mains?? I had just returned from shopping my reply cheaper for you also did not sound bothered but agreed it’s nice and warm


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## jagmanx (Nov 29, 2018)

*Should you want to Organise*

A CL or CS site
I suggest 6 amps is sufficient and indeed a good limit.
Mainly to prevent excessive Usage.

But I suggest again
Most who wish to use cheaper sites are happy with this and also limited Facilities

We use
A) a farm site which is quite rough and ready
No EHU but water and sewage £6

B) a C&CC CS
EHU  a proper  Toilet Water Sewage £12 ans Wifi.. another farm site

As has been posted farm sites simply want to diversify and get some more income

Not sure it works as the main income !


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## Nabsim (Nov 29, 2018)

I have used c&mc farm site a couple of times, £5 a night with water disposal and fresh water also bins for rubbish. Brilliant value for summer use, only in bad weather/winter that solar is needed. Meter the supply that’s the way, use it pay for it. If a site only wants you if you use ehu then they only offer pitches inclusive.

No problem, if I need one I pay for it. Doesn’t make it the best way though


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## mistericeman (Nov 29, 2018)

Frankly we mostly wild camp (i'm severely adverse to people ) 

BUT we have a (Growing ) list of places we happily pay to stay .....A wide mix of

Farmers fields at @ £5 a night with little IF any facilities 

Camping and caravanning club 5 pitch sites @ £10-£14 a night with Chem dump/water

Mainstream campsite at in a very special location @ £24 a night with hot and cold running everything BUT in a very discrete/avoidable way and CAN feel like wild camping ....


ALL have their place when im in the zone for each flavour .....

Cost isnt king with me .....location and solitude is ALL


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## Nabsim (Nov 30, 2018)

I agree Misterriceman. 

I thought the op was about site owners struggling through misuse though. The way to solve that is charge what they use, businesses need to keep changing to stay current (nice pun?) or they go bust. If folks use something then you either have a way to charge for what you have just like petrol stations or you do your sums and have a blanket fee that balances the 18p users like me to the £50 users and have a standing rate like the all you can eat carveries do.

It’s not hard, it may be costs they don’t want to afford Or can’t  justify due to amount of customers in which case they need to do the sums again and see if they can carry on by changing to fill and dump pitches. I would think a lot of us would use fill and dump at reasonable costs,they could add showers and washing machines if they don’t have them and be more attractive. 

I have stayed in a good few statics and cottages before getting the van and every single one of them covered there electricity costs by either reading a meter or having a charge that covered what could be used. Do Motorhomes really come with more stuff than a modern static van? I think some folks may be losing touch with their business needs


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## colinm (Nov 30, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> I agree Misterriceman.
> 
> I thought the op was about site owners struggling through misuse though. The way to solve that is charge what they use, businesses need to keep changing to stay current (nice pun?) or they go bust. If folks use something then you either have a way to charge for what you have just like petrol stations or you do your sums and have a blanket fee that balances the 18p users like me to the £50 users and have a standing rate like the all you can eat carveries do.
> 
> ...



AFAIK the problem is with cl/cs's, they are supposed to have a 5 van rule, if they have low occupancy they become just a bit of 'pin money' and don't deserve much investment of time and money, sorting out between high and low users takes time or money.


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## mistericeman (Nov 30, 2018)

colinmd said:


> AFAIK the problem is with cl/cs's, they are supposed to have a 5 van rule, if they have low occupancy they become just a bit of 'pin money' and don't deserve much investment of time and money, sorting out between high and low users takes time or money.



Exactly the way some of 'us' like them ;-) two of my fave cl/cs spots are little more than a field with a tap and a chem dump point and a stunning view ...
I don't need any more than that and frankly would be fine with just the field and view ....£7 a night and £5 a night BARGAIN ...
Though IF it was £20 a night ...id still willingly pay it for the peace and views .


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## runnach (Nov 30, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> I have stayed in a good few statics and cottages before getting the van and every single one of them covered there electricity costs by either reading a meter or having a charge that covered what could be used. Do Motorhomes really come with more stuff than a modern static van? I think some folks may be losing touch with their business needs



Lots of touring sites are leaning towards the static and Lodge market ,income stream on the sale of the van but more important is they collect ground rent anything from 2,5"k to 5.5 k so occupancy is of no relevance in addition insurance ,sales and gas has to be done through the site any alterations decking dg needs to be their approved contractors. It removes a lot of the hassle occupancy worries with traditional sites 

Channa


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## harrow (Nov 30, 2018)

channa said:


> Lots of touring sites are leaning towards the static and Lodge market ,income stream on the sale of the van but more important is they collect ground rent anything from 2,5"k to 5.5 k so occupancy is of no relevance in addition insurance ,sales and gas has to be done through the site any alterations decking dg needs to be their approved contractors. It removes a lot of the hassle occupancy worries with traditional sites
> 
> Channa



And then when the sites get to that point you give all the owners notice to move off and you put park homes on the site, and disappear off into the sunset.


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