# Leisure battery.



## bigal (Nov 9, 2010)

Hi, Newbie alert so be kind............


              I've just purchased a Hymer, rhd, and have one leisure battery situated to the right of the driver's seat, where and how could I fit a second leisure battery? Would it double the length of 12v usage?


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## rolandrat (Nov 9, 2010)

*leisure battery*

you don't mention what model your Hymer is.


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## bigal (Nov 9, 2010)

It's a B544.


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## maingate (Nov 9, 2010)

If your present battery is an old one, you do not get much benefit pairing it up with a new one as the old one will limit the new one. There should be a date mark on your old one (year/month of manufacture).

Batteries should be the same type and amp hours to get the maximum benefit. That way, they should double your stay off hookup. It is not good to repeatedly drain your batteries past 50%. That equates to a voltage reading of 12.1 volts.

Lots of people criticise leisure batteries for the wrong reasons. They run them flat and then hammer the charge back into them as quickly as they can. It works well for a short time but kills a battery off quite quickly.


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## Deleted member 207 (Nov 9, 2010)

There's quite a few threads on here about leisure batteries/solar panels, have a quick search for anything less than about 18 months old - older than that and technology has moved on quite a bit.

Do some basic calculations on what your electric consumption will likely to be - its a big waste of money to have 200% more than you need for a "rainy day". There are plenty of websites that have power consumption calculators used for solar panel sizing that can be used to size your leisure battery. 

Since the advent of gel filled batteries you can often get a much larger (size and capacity) to fit in the same spot as they can now be laid on their ends, sides, upside down if necessary.


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## David & Ann (Nov 9, 2010)

bigal said:


> Hi, Newbie alert so be kind............
> 
> 
> I've just purchased a Hymer, rhd, and have one leisure battery situated to the right of the driver's seat, where and how could I fit a second leisure battery? Would it double the length of 12v usage?


 
Maingate's post makes sense. If I were you, get new 2 X 110AH batterries, hook up the second one as close as you can to where your first battery was, if possible, side by side. I know it costs a few Quid, but you should be okay for a 3 years or so. And YES it would double the length of usage.


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## caspar (Nov 9, 2010)

Yep! I agree. Buy two new batteries (ideally 110, but 80 does the job). Place them as near together as possible and in answer to your question how? Buy the proper wire (VERY important in order to avoid fire) - your motorfactors will advise you if you explain what it is for - buy the appropriate terminals (2 to connect to the replaced existing battery and two to connect to the new battery). Just join +ve to+ve and -ve to-ve and you're done. Simple as. 

Don't mix an old and a new battery, it really isn't worth it. If the existing battery is only a few months old, fair enough, but otherwise replace both.


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## The Grand Wanderer (Nov 11, 2010)

bigal said:


> Hi, Newbie alert so be kind............
> 
> 
> I've just purchased a Hymer, rhd, and have one leisure battery situated to the right of the driver's seat, where and how could I fit a second leisure battery? Would it double the length of 12v usage?



Q You ask where 
A Under one of the front seats. you have to remove the seat turntable but there is just room to get a battery in. Make sure that you measure carefully the space and get a battery that will fit.

Q You ask how
A Connect positive terminal on new battery to positive terminal of existing leisure battery terminal using a good quality multistrand copper wire with a minimum thickness of 3mm placing an in line fuse rated at 15 amps in it. Connect the negative terminal either to the motorhome body or to the existing negative terminal of the leisure battery using the same quality wire. 
*Be Sure to get batteries that have a vent pipe and that the pipe vents to the outside of the van. they can be joined together using a T peice.*

Q Will it double the length of 12v usage.
A Yes

As has already been stated when you do this it is best to use new batteries and that they both are exactly the same.


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## bigal (Nov 11, 2010)

Thank you all very much for your replies, I'm in the process of negotiating the steep learning curve that is newbie motorhome ownership and am compiling a to-do and to buy-list in order to have a stressfree few months touring around Europe next year, its a matter of getting to know the van and what it can do, limitations ,etc, all good fun..............I'm currently sleeping in it outside my house until I can get it onto my property around the back.......another story. Anyway looks like 2 batteries will be the way to go, don't want to run out of juice whilst wildcamping.


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## peterandlinda (Nov 12, 2010)

Hi

Your first trip abroad is unlikely to be trouble free, but, hey, that is all part of the fun.  You should, with 220Ah, be OK wild camping but not for more than a night or two without additional power or driving a fair distance, depending on how much power you will use.  As part of your preparation consider:

replacing your halogen lights with LED fittings;

fitting a Sterling battery to battery charger (which will recharge the leisure batteries quicker on the move);

for summer use, fitting a solar panel or two;

is a generator an option?

Can you afford an Efoy?

P&L


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## millso (Apr 2, 2011)

*Quick question*

Hi all,

I followed the advice on this thread and purchased 2 new 110ah leisure batteries. However, after fitting them today, I noticed the first one is showing 13.1v when the campers plugged in, whilst the other is showing 12.9.  When they're both unplugged they're showing 12.9... Does this mean the second one's not charging and there's a problem in my set up?

Cheers J


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## The Grand Wanderer (Apr 3, 2011)

millso said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I followed the advice on this thread and purchased 2 new 110ah leisure batteries. However, after fitting them today, I noticed the first one is showing 13.1v when the campers plugged in, whilst the other is showing 12.9.  When they're both unplugged they're showing 12.9... Does this mean the second one's not charging and there's a problem in my set up?
> 
> Cheers J



Hi J,
I would expect both batteries to show the same voltage.

Possible faults could be,

1 Wire size too small causing resistance and thus a low reading from second battery.
2 Inline fuse on positive lead between the batteries not sturdy (heay duty) enough thus causing resistance and voltage drop.
3 Inline fuse not fitting in holder properley again causing resistance.
4 Earth connection not clean and tight to vehicle body if that's how you wired them, again causing resistance.
5 Are all conections clean and tight.

Wanderer


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## millso (Apr 3, 2011)

Hi Wanderer,

All of those things should be fine as I followed the advice on here i.e. 3mm multistrand copper wire, good heavy duty fuse and terminals.

I'll double check everything tomorrow


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## mrbigglesworth (Apr 4, 2011)

*battery conections*

To reduce voltage differences it would be best to have to the veh. positive feed to one battery (before it continues to the second bat.) and the veh. negative cable to the other battery ( before it continues to the first bat.).  This would prevent one battery from doing  most of the discharging/ charging.  This is even more significant if there was 3 batteries in series.

Mr B.


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## Tony Lee (Apr 4, 2011)

> 3mm multistrand copper wire, good heavy duty fuse and terminals.



3mm may not be up to the task depending on how the cable manufacturer does his ratings.
Connecting the new battery negative lead directly to the chassis may not be the best way to do it - and will certainly introduce differences in charging currents (and therefore charging voltages) between the two batteries. This difference will disappear when the batteries are resting BUT will reappear when the batteries are discharging. End result may be one battery gets more of a hammering than the other, especially if charge and discharge currents are relatively high, and may reduce the life of one battery.


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## millso (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi all,

I have connected the original battery connections to the first leisure battery, then the second battery to it so positive to positive with a heavy duty inline fuse, negative terminal to negative terminal.

I don't know what a veh is but can look into it... I'm pretty sure the cable is alright (paid a high price from my local motor factor who said it would do the job).  

There may not be an issue? I just don't know whether its normal for the second battery to be of a lower charge? (Very new to all this!).


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## Bigpeetee (Apr 4, 2011)

Use a digital voltmeter to test for voltage differences.

Start on th 20 volt scale, put some equipment, lights etc on to put a gool load on the battery.

Now put the test leads on the positive on one battery and again on the positive of the other, you shouldn't get a reading, reduce the voltmeter down to 2v scale, still shouldnt get a reading and finally to the 200mV range, if you get a significant reading doing this test you have a high resistance between the battery terminals, (poor joint, connection or cable too small.)

Do this again on the negative terminals of the battery.

If you do this again from the negative terminals to the vehicle chassis, any voltage here indicates a resistance in the Earth return lead, mine had 0.75 volt drop.

If this is happening, you need to increase the earth, I took a lead from battery negative and bolted directly to the body.

You should also extend your voltmeter lead (any wire will do) to measure any voltage drop from the vehicle battery negative terminal to the leisure battery terminal.

The earth to the chassis is not always 100%

If you measure the voltage across the vehicle battery with the engine running and then across the leisure battery, they should be similar, any difference is caused by the losses of the cables and fuse. This is what you are trying to eradicate.

Remember, if you get losses in the leisure battery feed cable there isn't enough voltage to fully charge them. The flatter the leisure batteries, the greater the voltage loss on the cables as a result of the batteries trying to drawer more current, resulting in the leisure batteries not getting enough power to charge before the alternator has charged the vehicle start battery and reduces output.

I found this out over a couple of weeks tour, the leisure batts (2x110AH) got more and more discharged.

Hope this helps


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## maingate (Apr 4, 2011)

If you wire the batteries up as mrbigglesworth says, there should not be any real difference between the 2.

You need to remember that you charge them up to 13.8 to 14.4 volts. When you disconnect the charger, you need to wait a few hours to get an accurate reading of the battery true voltage.

12.9 volts means that the battery is fully charged. Anything above 12.6 volts is usually a fully charged battery. I say usually because things like ambient temperature can vary this a bit.


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## solarman (Apr 5, 2011)

A reading of 12.6-7 volts is a fully charged battery,ignore readings any higher than this
as it's still coming down to it's resting voltage so it should settle at around 12.6-7 volts,
however voltage readings can be quite deceptive as there could be faulty cells within the battery,voltage readings should only be used as a general indicator,
Solarman.


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## millso (Apr 6, 2011)

Hi all,

Thanks for your on going help 

I have followed the advice and checked all the terminals and everything seems fine... 
I checked the usage tonight by leaving two of the campers lights on for an hour (was more like 50 mins), the second battery didn't go down at all, whilst the 1st battery went from fully charges 12.9 to 12.4 in that short time... Is this normal?

Bit worried as we will be in the camper full time in 2 weeks and don't want to ruin the batteries or be without power.

John


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## The Grand Wanderer (Apr 7, 2011)

millso said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Thanks for your on going help
> 
> ...



Please can you tell us how long the wires are between your two batteries? The greater the distance the more resistance and so the wire must be thicker to cope. I did say 3mm was a mininum. You may be better off using a 10mm wire. If all connections are between the batteries only and not to earth then it might be worth while looking at the original battery conections partically the original earth connection from the original battery to the van body.
Wanderer


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## millso (Apr 7, 2011)

The positive lead is no more than 200mm and the negative about 800mm so distance isn't an issue.

I'll have a look at the earth, if its ok i'll have a look at some thicker lead over the weekend.


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## Bigpeetee (Apr 7, 2011)

Send me your phone No to peter@starsound.org.uk


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## solarman (Apr 8, 2011)

millso said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Thanks for your on going help
> 
> ...


do you have it  wired to a split charger,if so you can run the engine for a while to keep batteries up,but on my recent experience i used an old battery and new battery wired in parallel and had tv running all night till voltage showed 11.97,but best to keep voltage level no less than 12.2 volts and then recharge it as soon as possible,
Solarman.


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## solarman (Apr 8, 2011)

i wouldn't worry too much about the voltage reading appearing to drop fast,in my experience that's normal,it should slow down a bit from 12.4 volts,but everything depends on battery condition,age,loads pulling power,temperature etc;Just as long as you have the means to recharge your batteries when they are critical so you can get them topped back up,
Solarman.


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## Bigpeetee (Apr 10, 2011)

Problem solved for John, took out positive cable with fuse in line, replaced with solid cable, all's well. acting as 1 big batt.

It's amazing how the fuse, holder etc can add resistance and cause poor charging etc.

As John's positive cable went under the seat frame, I suggested additional insulation like pipe insulation, the split foam stuff is ideal


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## millso (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi Pete,

You beat me to it 

Thanks to everyone for their help, but especially Pete for being very patient over the phone!

As a rule I don't pay to become a member of forums, however after Pete's help this community seems to be something worth paying for!


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## Leltel (Jun 7, 2011)

*Can you help me too please *

Ok we are fitting 2 110ah batteries and have 16mm copper wire, we have exhausted ourselvex trying to find spade lugs big enough to fit the wire for the fuses. Hubby wants to use 25amp fuse wire instead, is this ok?? One battery will be under the passenger seat and one in the door well space. Thanks


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## oldish hippy (Jun 7, 2011)

Leltel said:


> Ok we are fitting 2 110ah batteries and have 16mm copper wire, we have exhausted ourselvex trying to find spade lugs big enough to fit the wire for the fuses. Hubby wants to use 25amp fuse wire instead, is this ok?? One battery will be under the passenger seat and one in the door well space. Thanks


 
lugg for the size of cable go to a electrical wholesaler ie like city elelctrical they uk  based they should be able to help you or if you have a local on then they should if not get in touch with a freindly local electrician who got account and ask him to get you some lugs might have to be circle but quick trim with hacksaw they become spade

16mm² Copper Tube Lug 8mm Stud Hole Pack of 10 | Screwfix.com

PRO POWER|STTK25-10|UNINSULATED CRIMP TERMINALS 25MM | CPC


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## Leltel (Jun 7, 2011)

Thank you, we have spent all our time trailing motor factors, didn't even think of electrical wholesales!
Guess where we will be going tomorrow. Thanks again


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## Bigpeetee (Jun 8, 2011)

Why the fuse between the batteries??

Millso had charging problems when a fuse was installed.

Your cable runs are short, if you're worried about shorting the cable, add additional insulation on the positive lead only, cover the positive terminals and you're fine.

In the engine compartment, there isn't a fuse in the cable to the starter motor, that's a big cable and is just clipped to the body work.

As long as you cannot short the positive cable to earth (Almost any metal) then you're OK.

As stated previously, a fuse is a resistance (Quite small), when you charge the battery, you will never get the full voltage on the second battery, so it never becomes fully charged, when stopped, the two batteries settle to the lower voltage.

Don't forget, you also have a fuse in the line from the split charge relay, that resistance plus that of the cable results in a voltage drop anyway.

If you have a voltmeter, first put it across the engine battery with the engine running, then across the leisure battery, you will probably see a difference in voltage caused by the resistance of the fuse and cable.

The flatter the leisure battery, the greater the voltage differential, the slower the charge.

PS, I use foam pipe insulation to protect the positive cable, you can get plastic clip on protectors for the terminals. Battery depots are the best starting places for the bits and bobs.


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## Leltel (Jun 8, 2011)

*Thank you so much*



Bigpeetee said:


> Why the fuse between the batteries??
> 
> Millso had charging problems when a fuse was installed.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you so much for this reply.  Hubby has been able to go out and about today with work so has been halfway round the south, or he says it feels like it, trying to get the connections or a different fuse thingy without any joy!
We are new to Motorhome DIY and needs must, this is the first time he is attempting something like this. Where we have researched over the last week, looking for information, I think we have had information overload and had read somewhere that fuses were used!
You are right in that there is a short distance in wires so we are not going down the fuses route, he is now going back to the office to pretend that he has been out on work purposes, whilst I eagerly await the delivery of our batteries.....ready for the off tomorrow!
We are so grateful for the person who started this post and to all who have contributed, especially yourself.  I know it is a subject that comes up alot, but people still have the patience to reply.


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## Tony Lee (Jun 8, 2011)

At the risk of upsetting people, and regardless of whether engine batteries have a fuse between it and the starter motor, they DO normally have a fusible link somewhere in the wiring supplying the rest of the circuitry. 
To be so adamant about not needing fuses in habitation systems is against normal good safe practice and unfortunately the reason given for not having fuses is the very poor quality of components and workmanship that goes into a typical habitation battery installation - PARTICULARLY a second battery that is usually installed by the dealer or a handyman. 

The correct fuse to use is one rated to blow only in the case of a serious fault, and is one that is bolted, not one of these crappy spade fuses in a plastic holder so beloved by the trade. The correctly-sized cable (3mm??? what does that mean? 3mm cable diameter, 3 mm conductor diameter, or is it 3 square mm conductor area??) is fitted with the correct lugs either crimped with the correct crimper (the $2 kits containing 79 assorted crimp lugs AND a crimper, is not the one I mean) or soldered by someone with the right equipment and the knowhow to use it - and then the whole lot is installed according to best practices.


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## Leltel (Jun 8, 2011)

Hi Tony, it is the crappy plastic ones that we have got hold of. Hubby wanted the bolt downs, no where local sells them, I have had a pm which assists. As for crimpers, he does at least have a set of proper ones that he borrows from his work van! I am waiting for him to get in from work tonight to show him the comments and messages. 
Thank you as all comments are appreciated. 
Lel


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