# Consumer Rights act 2015 Reject a motorhome as not fit for purpose?



## REC (May 6, 2018)

Having purchased our new motorhome in feb2018, we still cannot use it properly. Getting so fed up about it, particularly as just seen our old self build, and this has highlighted what a problem the new one is!
Problems still not resolved are
1.Unable to use the shower as no curtain
2. Unidentified rattle under floor only relieved by having a heavy weight on it
3. Maybe connected to (2) the waste water bubbles into the shower tray if waste tank is more than half full. Retailer suggests a plug to stop this but says probably the design!!
4.Cushions all squashed and uncomfortable after a week sleeping on them
5. Door handle on bathroom missing
6. Waiting now for a replacement radio as this is faulty which affects the odometer and steering wheel controls for Bluetooth ( don't understand exactly but they did a software fix which didn't work!) Odometer flashes constantly.

All these faults have been notified to the garage in February and March and we have been waiting for them to "get parts" consequently we cannot use the van for the purpose purchased. So fed up and disappointed we are now thinking that we will reject it as not fit for purpose since they have not managed to fix anything yet! Does anyone out there have more knowledge about whether we would have a case? There is a six month time limit I think, 
Are we being unreasonable? Planned to drive to Portugal fairly soon but don't want to with all the issues!
Opinions would be appreciated.


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## harrow (May 6, 2018)

Well it's not right, but you have to be seen as being reasonable.

If you can then get rid of it.

:wave:


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## delicagirl (May 6, 2018)

2-3 months is far too long to be "reasonable" in my view.  I think you need to put all this in writing to the company and  ist all the defects and the date from which you have been trying to get these resolved. Give them a time frame deadline  -  say 2 weeks  - to complete all repairs otherwise you will refuse to accept it back as "unfit for purpose" and will ask for a full refund, prior to taking Court Action if this does not happen.     But you need to be willing to take them to court  and it is costly and it does take months to get through the system.......  good luck


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## yorkslass (May 6, 2018)

Just had a quick read of the Which consumer article, and the law seems to be different in relation to vehicles. Probably best to get a quick consultation with a solicitor. Good luck whatever route you take. I'm at the Hereford meet at the moment and have heard of two members with new vans who have fridges that don't work.


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## REC (May 6, 2018)

Thanks! I was reading the which guide too....they can deduct for use but that's ok as our main use has been driving to the dealer and fiat specialist to try and get resolution! Paid for a big chunk on credit card then cleared card immediately but think we have redress through them too. Plan on putting it all in writing tomorrow but, having seen our previous vehicle have realised how bad this has been! Don't think our son will give it back but would prefer it!
Don't plan on starting it unless following through...but wondered if our idea of "reasonable" coincides with others!


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## runnach (May 6, 2018)

I don't think you have a leg to stand on annoyances rather than you cant use the van...the positive side is you have a tri party agreement that makes the credit company liable 


Local trading standards will assist you, and whislt you have a grievance they will advise re rejecting parts lead times etc being sufficient grounds 

Channa


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## colinm (May 6, 2018)

REC said:


> Paid for a big chunk on credit card then cleared card immediately but think we have redress through them too.



The value of goods is limited to £30,000 on credit card, IIRC from our discussions with CAB some years back it is not pro rata, so even if you paid £10,000 on card for a £35,000 van, they are not liable, but by all means ask.


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## QFour (May 6, 2018)

REC said:


> Odometer flashes constantly



The main Electronic Control Unit ( ECU ) is not happy and it tells the driver by flashing. Best people to solve the FIAT based bit is your local FIAT PROFESSIONAL DEALERSHIP. They have all the kit to work out what is exactly wrong with the ECU and access to the latest updates from the factory. Dealers don't have a clue. If it has a Sat Nav fitted that is not a FIAT one then you can have all sorts of problems.

SWC can be a right pig with a none FIAT head unit. You need a CanBus listener that can work out which buttons on the steering wheel have been pressed.

My write up on the FIAT Forum

The CX-401 worked but I had to amend it slightly inside to stop it transmitting on the CanBus as it started the Odometer Flashing.

Some people have been told by their dealers that all the Odometers flash ..


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## REC (May 6, 2018)

QFour said:


> The main Electronic Control Unit ( ECU ) is not happy and it tells the driver by flashing. Best people to solve the FIAT based bit is your local FIAT PROFESSIONAL DEALERSHIP. They have all the kit to work out what is exactly wrong with the ECU and access to the latest updates from the factory. Dealers don't have a clue. If it has a Sat Nav fitted that is not a FIAT one then you can have all sorts of problems.
> 
> SWC can be a right pig with a none FIAT head unit. You need a CanBus listener that can work out which buttons on the steering wheel have been pressed.
> 
> ...



The fiat dealership has had it in three time ! Thought it was an easy fix but rebooked it as was not. Next had it for the day while they spoke to fiat to try and sort it . Fiat then developed a special software which should have fixed it...took it back for another day. Did not work so now waiting for a new radio!
Apparently Fiat "had never seen this particular issue!". The annoying thing is that the van was sold with miles on the clock as taken to exhibitions so the retailer should have known and sorted it out!


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## QFour (May 6, 2018)

REC said:


> The fiat dealership has had it in three time ! Thought it was an easy fix but rebooked it as was not. Next had it for the day while they spoke to fiat to try and sort it . Fiat then developed a special software which should have fixed it...took it back for another day. Did not work so now waiting for a new radio!
> Apparently Fiat "had never seen this particular issue!". The annoying thing is that the van was sold with miles on the clock as taken to exhibitions so the retailer should have known and sorted it out!



If it's a Fiat Connect5 I have one on top of the wardrobe, you cannot even put in a POI file in it. They expect you to do it *one by one* 

Our local Fiat Dealer has been great. I sat with their tech guy in the cab while it was linked up so I could see what the problem was. The CX-401 unit I had connected to the CanBus was telling the ECU that it was a radio. The ECU didn't believe it  .. Removal of the CX-401 SWC unit solved the problem so I didn't have any SWC. Next part was making the CX-401 unit into a dumb unit. Opened it up and traced the transmit line to the CanBus controller chip and cut the track. That shut it up and everything now works.

Hope you get it all sorted. It's very frustrating.



> The Consumer Rights Act 2015 gives you the right to ask for a full refund in the *first 30 days * buying any product that proves to be faulty, including new and used cars.
> 
> The law also provides protection for servicing and repair work that renders your car faulty. If you believe that a service or piece of work hasn’t been carried out with reasonable care, you can ask for a refund or for the work to be repeated.
> 
> ...


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## trevskoda (May 7, 2018)

You do infact in law base to reject within 6mth if they have not put right in a fair time frame,go to cit advice right now or a legal eagle.


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## eddyt (May 7, 2018)

hi
   i was told by the CAB you have up to 6 years for complaints on motors.


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## trevskoda (May 7, 2018)

eddyt said:


> hi
> i was told by the CAB you have up to 6 years for complaints on motors.



The first six mths you have right to reject at no cost to you,after that you have 5 years but it is up to you to prove at your costs through courts.
As i run a marine biz i have to up on these things.
the law is set like this incase you buy say a boat and told it has never been damaged,only to find when say moving a bit of furniture to find a large chunk of grp repair to hull,this applies to cars /trucks where you are told never in accident etc or had panel repairs only to find down the line that it indeed had been repaired.
As for 6 mth reject this is normal and a time limit for sorting things applies but if not sorted to your satisfaction then automatic right to full or partial refund depending if and what use you may or may not have from the goods.
The only way traders can and do get round this is if down on recept as sold to trade or as seen heard and approved as sold with no redress as parts or repair,this is common in motor trade ,esp for old bangers.


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## runnach (May 7, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> The first six mths you have right to reject at no cost to you,after that you have 5 years but it is up to you to prove at your costs through courts.
> As i run a marine biz i have to up on these things.
> the law is set like this incase you buy say a boat and told it has never been damaged,only to find when say moving a bit of furniture to find a large chunk of grp repair to hull,this applies to cars /trucks where you are told never in accident etc or had panel repairs only to find down the line that it indeed had been repaired.
> As for 6 mth reject this is normal and a time limit for sorting things applies but if not sorted to your satisfaction then automatic right to full or partial refund depending if and what use you may or may not have from the goods.
> The only way traders can and do get round this is if down on recept as sold to trade or as seen heard and approved as sold with no redress as parts or repair,this is common in motor trade ,esp for old bangers.



I slightly disagree Trev, lack of a shower curtain isn't grounds to reject a vehicle ..ECU issues possibly are, other than the vehicle still functions albeit an issue.So the vehicle functions and can be used which negates any lien to reject 

It wont come as a surprise but generally the general public are a nightmare to deal with expectations sometime can be unrealistic and the law needs to protect traders as much as it does the consumer a fact often forgotten resolving disputes.

The answer is simple trading standards, up to speed on the law and will broker a sensible conclusion the cab are useful but I have found sometimes amateur in the advice they can offer,

The notion sold as trade, as seen etc isa bit of a myth. As a trader the law assumes that as a professional and trader consumer regulations apply lots of cases that prove that. So simply to say sold as is not acceptable. Unless the person you deal with is also classes as trade

In practical terms that means trader has obligation to establish a vehicle isn't a write off, has finance outstanding and all the rest of it.

Another reason to use trading standards rather than cab is this....rogue traders and the charlatans they collate information en masse to snuff them out as a trader and consumer this has to be a good thing. 

Like yourself my garage was selling a thousand cars a year so we had to be up to speed, ignorance no defence and all that 

Re the OP her problem I suspect is her local trading standards differs in area to the garage involved per se not an issue other than it takes longer to establish remedy

Channa


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## malagaoth (May 7, 2018)

I recognise that this is easy for me because it wasnt my money but not of these 'faults' sound terribly serious irritating certainly but there is nothing there which would prevent to full use (although perhaps not the full enjoyment) of the vehicle.

A shower curtain (top of the list!) shouldnt be too hard to get - OK it might not be the right one with the right colour scheme but it would allow use of the shower

in fact the only issue that is even remotely serious is the ECU problem.

I could be uncharitable and suggest that you have a severe case of buyers remorse and simply want out of the deal - but I wont


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## trevskoda (May 7, 2018)

channa said:


> I slightly disagree Trev, lack of a shower curtain isn't grounds to reject a vehicle ..ECU issues possibly are, other than the vehicle still functions albeit an issue.So the vehicle functions and can be used which negates any lien to reject
> 
> It wont come as a surprise but generally the general public are a nightmare to deal with expectations sometime can be unrealistic and the law needs to protect traders as much as it does the consumer a fact often forgotten resolving disputes.
> 
> ...


Agee with most of your stuff like shower curtains etc being a bit out,but stuff sold as to trade or spares repair often done here,i bought my newish to me proton as tail light warrenty at a very low trade price ,so no come back and was on trade sales docket,so it was up to me to do background leg work,the sales chap was onto to me anyway after about 5 mins so i had to tell him yes was in trade,we had a good larf after deal done,rotten lot us car traders or so i have been told.:scared::lol-053::lol-053::lol-053:


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## runnach (May 7, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> Agee with most of your stuff like shower curtains etc being a bit out,but stuff sold as to trade or spares repair often done here,i bought my newish to me proton as tail light warrenty at a very low trade price ,so no come back and was on trade sales docket,so it was up to me to do background leg work,the sales chap was onto to me anyway after about 5 mins so i had to tell him yes was in trade,we had a good larf after deal done,rotten lot us car traders or so i have been told.:scared::lol-053::lol-053::lol-053:


 Dealing with traders proper fun ..I used to deal with one Pete Hickson a draughtsman but decided trading was more fun ....December one year asking if I had owt to sell told him job was a touch quiet ...yes he says all I have been offered is a minesweeper and a frigate !!!! ex Russian I think ...he would by anything one bought a llama moved it on to a circus ...proper character got locked up over the iraqui gun affair he was selling surplus medical stuff to the Saudis syringes and all that..you couldn't make it up thing I loved about him was happy to share when it went wrong swimming pool koi carp and a heron ,,,I should write a book ...At the block had his bidding boots on and natterinf thinking he was bidding on a beemer ...the sale it was a Granada ...many laughs I miss that tbh proper funny at times

Channa


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## trevskoda (May 7, 2018)

Channa i loved the auction house just across the rd from me,i could point out all the horse traders/cowboys dead easy,i some times pity poor folk getting the ar-e well burnt going to auctions with dealers shill bidding on there own goods to get prices up,never mind the auchionear winding price up with invisable bidders.


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## runnach (May 7, 2018)

trotting is part of the game ..in the block observe and you know the trade anyway. spent lots of time in BCA dare I admit found a buyer and I too would bid against them on my own car van etc 

Petes lad would bid on the big smokers and straight down south on a transporter and bang through Measham ..I used Belle Vue in Manchester and put a few weasels in you Irish lads loved em ...wiped my feet and a touch of profit so all was well in life 

You can have the best education in the world but doesn't matter a jot in the block traders are smart and yes got it wrong sometimes a different world

Don't miss me for £50 price of a Jack Russel puppy ...Auctions can be really good fun far more interesting than retail and the public 


Channa


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## maingate (May 7, 2018)

Write a letter to the Dealer telling them that you intend to start Legal proceedings under the Law to reject the vehicle as unfit for purpose and will pursue your claim through the Courts. If they are local to you, hand it directly to the Manager and walk away. Let them contact you, don't do any deals if he offers a better repair arrangement, let them stew on it while you look for a Solicitor with the proper background in Consumer Law.

Take it one step at a time.


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## Thebroons (May 7, 2018)

I would agree mostly with the advice from maingate however I would send the letter recorded delivery so there is proof. Also tell them all correspondence should be in writing so you have a paper / email trail should the need arise in the future.


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## Herbenny (May 7, 2018)

My son purchased a car some years back and it was in the garage more times than it was on the road. 
It had never ending problems all gear box related.

After seeking advice from 'trading standards' they guided me every step of the way on how to get the ball rolling ...
After numerous phone calls, letter writing and a stressful rants from me,  I was  finally told we could hand the car back to the garage and plonked the keys down on the desk, and wiped our hands of it.

You notice I said 'I' ...son was a clueless 18 year old at the time ...so good old Mum dealt with it. I have to say the CA and trading standards were invaluable and emailed me template letters....


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## runnach (May 7, 2018)

Herbenny said:


> My son purchased a car some years back and it was in the garage more times than it was on the road.
> It had never ending problems all gear box related.
> 
> After seeking advice from 'trading standards' they guided me every step of the way on how to get the ball rolling ...
> ...



Fact of the matter is going to a solicitor which costs money especially if unsuccessful has pitfalls , Anyone plonk a solicitors letter on my desk I would forward to Sewells my own who specialised in motortrade disputes..all part of being a member of the SMMT so cost nothing and let them sort it. I would expect motorhome dealers to be part of the NCC who serve similar

Trading standards are a different kettle of fish, like a vatman you don't want them getting too inquisitive ! And dint forget in the most dire of cases they can , will and do prosecute rogue dealers

Channa


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## eddyt (May 7, 2018)

hi
    check your house insurance policy it may have legal cover.


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## MarkJ (May 7, 2018)

malagaoth said:


> I recognise that this is easy for me because it wasnt my money but not of these 'faults' sound terribly serious irritating certainly but there is nothing there which would prevent to full use (although perhaps not the full enjoyment) of the vehicle.
> 
> A shower curtain (top of the list!) shouldnt be too hard to get - OK it might not be the right one with the right colour scheme but it would allow use of the shower
> 
> ...



But the frustration builds. If the faults are not remotely serious then the dealer should fix them easily!

I expect the OP would have been happy if the dealer had fixed these things on the spot.


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## Nabsim (May 7, 2018)

malagaoth said:


> I recognise that this is easy for me because it wasnt my money but not of these 'faults' sound terribly serious irritating certainly but there is nothing there which would prevent to full use (although perhaps not the full enjoyment) of the vehicle.
> 
> A shower curtain (top of the list!) shouldnt be too hard to get - OK it might not be the right one with the right colour scheme but it would allow use of the shower
> 
> ...



Did you see the pics of the seat cushions that were posted after one weeks use, (was a different thread a month r two back)? They were the settee/bed cushions and didn't look fit for the dogs to sleep on never mind a new van.


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## CarlandHels (May 8, 2018)

REC said:


> Thanks! I was reading the which guide too....they can deduct for use but that's ok as our main use has been driving to the dealer and fiat specialist to try and get resolution! Paid for a big chunk on credit card then cleared card immediately but think we have redress through them too. Plan on putting it all in writing tomorrow but, having seen our previous vehicle have realised how bad this has been! Don't think our son will give it back but would prefer it!
> Don't plan on starting it unless following through...but wondered if our idea of "reasonable" coincides with others!



Be sure to send all letters via Recorded Delivery. Do nothing in Peron or over the phone. You need a clear record of all correspondence if it goes to court. Good luck.


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## REC (May 8, 2018)

malagaoth said:


> I recognise that this is easy for me because it wasnt my money but not of these 'faults' sound terribly serious irritating certainly but there is nothing there which would prevent to full use (although perhaps not the full enjoyment) of the vehicle.
> 
> A shower curtain (top of the list!) shouldnt be too hard to get - OK it might not be the right one with the right colour scheme but it would allow use of the shower
> 
> ...



Not buyer's remorse! The shower curtain was much less of a problem  than the fact that the cushions are unusable, the waste water floods the shower base and the ECU issues. The main regret is that, having bought it to go away in, after four months of limited use but going backwards and forwards to garage and supplier, we still cannot use it as intended.

And yes, we do regrets pending £38000 on something which is just a big disappointment!


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## The laird (May 8, 2018)

REC said:


> Not buyer's remorse! The shower curtain was much less of a problem  than the fact that the cushions are unusable, the waste water floods the shower base and the ECU issues. The main regret is that, having bought it to go away in, after four months of limited use but going backwards and forwards to garage and supplier, we still cannot use it as intended.



Sounds like ( not fit for the purpose ) act?


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## delicagirl (May 8, 2018)

The laird said:


> Sounds like ( not fit for the purpose ) act?



Exactly what i said in post number  3


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## REC (May 8, 2018)

Just phoned the managing director of the company. Told him a recorded delivery letter is on its way as, having talked to trading standards, they advised me to reject the vehicle as not fit for purpose and of poor quality. I also followed your advice and told him everything from now on as to be in writing. He said he thought it was all sorted out and that everything was ok! Obviously has not checked and staff not kept him informed! He was involved initially after the no battery fiasco when we collected it. (Other thread)


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## runnach (May 8, 2018)

Well done the MD will NOT want trading standards on his case !!! far more effective than any solicitor and free !! I hope your grievances are sorted soon.

TS are not a cage you want to rattle I assure you 

Channa


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## The laird (May 8, 2018)

delicagirl said:


> Exactly what i said in post number  3



Great minds and all that


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## Jan B (May 10, 2018)

*Know how you feel!!*

Know how you feel . We purchased an Elddis 115 last May and so far we have had 15 items repaired! 

1. Delivery of van delayed due to faulty brake switch - new switch fitted.

2. We commented on poor quality mastic work when we arrived to collect van - really shoddy workmanship.

3. New door fitted as original warped.

4. Elddis eventually delivered door but not the Decal required. We still await Decal being completed.

5. Oven catch fell out - had to be refitted.

6. Rubber caps missing on hob so glass lid rattled continuously - new caps sent to us by post..

7. Stop end missing on curtain rail so curtain kept falling off rail - stop end sent to us by post.

8. Door knobs on cupboards keep sticking.

9. Big gap below Toilet door, drip on door not adequate so water floods out if you have a shower. Very bad design puts us off having a shower.

10. When having a shower water makes it way from tray an comes out at edge of facing below cupboard door. You have re-silicone but this is still of concern and again puts us off using shower.

11. Wires at back of Consumer Unit were not connected which prevented us from using van to full.

12. Edging came off worktop in Toilet and worktop swelled - worktop had to be replaced.

13. No silicon/bad silicon in certain areas of shower room - back of worktop etc. New silicon applied.

14. Silver plating on kitchen tap peeling off - new tap awaited.

15. Part fell off inside toilet waste tank preventing flushing - new tank supplied.

To make it worse we have just had it in for it's first service and there have been three areas of damp identified and they are talking about removing wall panels (!!) in a new van??!! Very disappointing. We previously had a VW T4 HI-TOP. We purchased it second hand in 2008 used it for 8.5 years and sold it last year for £750 more than we purchased it for. No issues with it at all except the usual wear and tear items you would expect in a vehicle. Feel like telling them to take it back. Interested to hear how you get on.




REC said:


> Having purchased our new motorhome in feb2018, we still cannot use it properly. Getting so fed up about it, particularly as just seen our old self build, and this has highlighted what a problem the new one is!
> Problems still not resolved are
> 1.Unable to use the shower as no curtain
> 2. Unidentified rattle under floor only relieved by having a heavy weight on it
> ...


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## REC (May 12, 2018)

Jan B said:


> Know how you feel . We purchased an Elddis 115 last May and so far we have had 15 items repaired!
> 
> 1. Delivery of van delayed due to faulty brake switch - new switch fitted.
> 
> ...



Actually there were also lots of other little things like rubber stops, fire extinguisher, fridge covers, salad box, etc missing but it was the major stuff which was the final straw. You just get to the stage where being reasonable feels like being made a mug!! Every part is supposed to be approx eight week wait, and time is ticking by. Also each eight week wait has been extended for the stuff currently waited as " they got the wrong part numbers so had to reorder". And the cushions may well be just like for like so will have to be replaced again. Just poor quality and a bit of "don't care, not my problem now" attitude. Will update when (if) we get a reply!


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## runnach (May 12, 2018)

FWIW good job this shower don't work for me. They would be looking for a new job on Monday.

Parts can be ordered incorrectly, on back order etc not much a dealer can do. But the couldn't give a hoot got yer money so sod off really annoys me ..Infuriates in fact.

The reason I pretty much pushed the trading standards route is they don't hold back sit on the fence and hurt the non professionals hard !

One of my dealerships in Leeds was the first to work in partnership with West Yorkshire trading standards we went from Jan to sept without one complaint and when that happened TS established we had behaved correctly...

One significant difference is the lack of ownership by the motorhome manufacturers, The car manufacturers nowadays put a lot of emphasis on Customer satisfaction withholding money unless satisfaction is through the roof part the reason customers are hounded after a service !

To give an idea we had a Vauxhall dealership is Leeds were money held back was £300000 yes you read that right !!! ....I for one would not want to be the person explaining to directors why I had lost 300k because couldn't be arsed looking after the customers albeit wouldn't shout about that on your cv looking for a new job

The Motorhome manfacturerers need to follow suit and arrang that if you represent a franchise warranty work is undertaken 

All this of course aside proves that recommendation is the best salesperson simple basics no re inventing wheels required ! your post proves that name and shame the supplier would hurt them and deserve it....they need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Channa


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## maingate (May 12, 2018)

Jan B said:


> Know how you feel . We purchased an Elddis 115 last May and so far we have had 15 items repaired!
> 
> 1. Delivery of van delayed due to faulty brake switch - new switch fitted.
> 
> ...



If I had an Elddis and was having a lot of problems, I would contact Hymer Head Office and complain. They recently bought Elddis and must bear some responsibility.


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## runnach (May 12, 2018)

maingate said:


> If I had an Elddis and was having a lot of problems, I would contact Hymer Head Office and complain. They recently bought Elddis and must bear some responsibility.



Depends on whether the deal embraced past liabilities ..Piper aircraft was sold for 1 dollar down to them accepting previous product issues, I have a hunch a caravan manufactuer wont have done...Overall a bunch of rank amateurs 

Channa


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## trevskoda (May 12, 2018)

After reading all this im so happy i built my own buggy at a fraction of the price,do hope all ends well.


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## QFour (May 13, 2018)

Part of the problem seems to be the reluctance to carry spare parts. Manufacturers seem to work on the Just in Time principal with parts arriving from suppliers JIT to be fitted. This of course eases the cash flow as MH’s come off the line and are shipped to the Dealer network. The supplier of the parts then gets paid after the Dealer has paid the Manufacturer.

Problem is there is no slack in the system. The shower curtains are ordered months in advance and all are assigned to new vehicles. If one is damaged or the box has one short then there is a delay getting one. The Manufacturer doesn’t wait for the part the vehicle just leaves without it.

Then it’s down to the Dealer to order the bits that are missing and hope they turn up BEFORE he sells it.

With a Dealer who sells a large range of MH’s they cannot possibly carry a large range of parts. They have to rely on the Manufacturer to supply the parts quickly. Trouble is some can do it others cannot.

Fiat are very good. I had an oil leak on our Fiat and we had only done a couple of hundred miles. It went in and they found the fault with the oil pipe connection to the turbo. New pipe and turbo arrived from factory in Italy Two days later.

Swift on the other hand took 8 weeks to deliver a front corner plastic part after we tried to move a lump of Devon granite. Finished up with duck tape to hold it together while we waited for the bits. Liaka in Italy supplied a new door seal to our Dealer in a week.

..


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## Nabsim (May 13, 2018)

I hear what you are saying about JIT but having to wait 8 weeks is not JIT is bull****.

Surely each motorhome manufacturer has a main importer, they should carry a suitable range of spares to supply all the other dealers in the UK. What’s the difference between a motorhome and a car or a wagon?

Should be none it’s just rubbish service and money grabbing with no care for the end user


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## trevskoda (May 13, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> I hear what you are saying about JIT but having to wait 8 weeks is not JIT is bull****.
> 
> Surely each motorhome manufacturer has a main importer, they should carry a suitable range of spares to supply all the other dealers in the UK. What’s the difference between a motorhome and a car or a wagon?
> 
> Should be none it’s just rubbish service and money grabbing with no care for the end user



Yes but m/home dealers dont sell 40/60 a week like car dealers did in my day.
We as a main dealer always kept the fast moving and service bits in stock,i do remember having a long waiting time for a set of seats for a toyota as his dog eat them after being left in car,think it was about 6 weeks from japan.


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## Nabsim (May 13, 2018)

I dont. Dan main dealer Trev I mean importer. There will only be one official importer for each brand won’t there who supplies all others?


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## Nabsim (May 13, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> I dont. Dan main dealer Trev I mean importer. There will only be one official importer for each brand won’t there who supplies all others?



Damn predictive text should have said I don’t mean main dealer but importer


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## runnach (May 13, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> Yes but m/home dealers dont sell 40/60 a week like car dealers did in my day.
> We as a main dealer always kept the fast moving and service bits in stock,i do remember having a long waiting time for a set of seats for a toyota as his dog eat them after being left in car,think it was about 6 weeks from japan.


 We had a couple of Toyota dealerships in Hull and Bradford after the Kobe earthquake the factory couldn't function after 8 hours are so due to JIT and attitude changed.

We held fast moving parts too, tbh a parts manager stocking and engine would be shot !!! Stock takes of just in case often revealed parts in stock for 2 years ...multiply that out by 25 dealerships a lot of money.

The fact still remains motorhomes in reality have no network to speak off just appointed franchises that flog the vans 

Channa


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## Nabsim (May 13, 2018)

That’s the problem then, no network. JIT is a fact of live but it means you have stock when you need it. I would suggest 8 weeks is ‘go away we can’t be bothered’ not JIT.

Sounds like there’s a business opportunity for someone... Andrew...


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## colinm (May 13, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> I hear what you are saying about JIT but having to wait 8 weeks is not JIT is bull****.
> 
> Surely each motorhome manufacturer has a main importer, they should carry a suitable range of spares to supply all the other dealers in the UK. What’s the difference between a motorhome and a car or a wagon?
> 
> Should be none it’s just rubbish service and money grabbing with no care for the end user




Back in the day I had a rear sprocket wear out on a Honda, waited several months for the next shipment of spares only to be told they where all gone (obviously a manufacturing fault) so had to wait months more for next shipment, must have been 9 months before the bike got fixed, meantime I had got another bike and just wanted the part so I could sell a running bike.


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## runnach (May 13, 2018)

The truck game Trev was a revelation overnight servicing etc Volvo if you broke down which was rare in the first place if they couldn't get the part roadside to a fitter in 4 hours you didn't pay for it.

 When I consider Ford dealerships and attitudes oblivious that transits in the main are working vans I would go for an Iveco everytime the back up as good as the tractor units.

My experience of Northern Commercial in Brighouse and Ringways in Leeds (ford) are chalk and cheese

Channa


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## trevskoda (May 13, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> I dont. Dan main dealer Trev I mean importer. There will only be one official importer for each brand won’t there who supplies all others?



Yes toyota were brought into england and sent to us and we then dished them round the n.ireland dealers,parts also came through english distro w/house.


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## runnach (May 13, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> Yes toyota were brought into england and sent to us and we then dished them round the n.ireland dealers,parts also came through english distro w/house.



In the early days in the UK Toyota ,Nissan were imported and distributed by concessionairres (octav Botner and Mr Jameel) so had little sway similar to caravan dealers. Nissan Japan and Toyota due to having plants here set up UK based operations under the Japanese umbrella and the service improved drastically, We had containers for overnight deliveries etc that simply doesn't happen with caravans. 

Ironically not with the Japanese manufacturers but European things sometimes stalled vehicles and parts due to the fact we drive RHD and the factories tooled up specially for production runs that extended to parts including those from external suppliers eg Bosch and Lucas

Channa


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## runnach (May 13, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> That’s the problem then, no network. JIT is a fact of live but it means you have stock when you need it. I would suggest 8 weeks is ‘go away we can’t be bothered’ not JIT.
> 
> Sounds like there’s a business opportunity for someone... Andrew...



No meaningful networks certainly doesn't help, but there is something else and happens more often than you think outside everyones control and it might surprise you.

You have a German Geist, So all the fast moving parts are ordered from Germany manufacture collating and despatch takes time and containers head for the UK get to Sheerness Dover etc and job comes to a halt, the containers have to go through customs and you can lose 2 weeks there disregarding the lead time for orders and all the rest of it .It goes without saying the slow moving stuff in the mix too

Not an excuse but perhaps an angle you hadn't ever had explained ?

The two weeks lost is 25 % of the 8 week time window you mention ...Unrealistic to stock every part under the sun that might sell or need so gives a conundrum no one is happy with 

Channa


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## Nabsim (May 13, 2018)

I would expect a wait on bits for mine (unless Merc side) as it’s a model that went away years ago. This 8 weeks doesn’t wash at all though, I order parts from all over the world and get them in a couple of weeks usually and that includes paying customs charges and the bit added on by courier for it. China can be a problem unless you go over and fill containers yourself but most other countries are quick.

Doesn’t matter what I think though it won’t make any difference, it’s only when everyone decides to expect decent customer service things will change 

As to bike sprockets I never waited for one more than next day. If one shop didn’t have it we went to another who would. Unless you are running a veteran or vintage bike we never had problems. If we couldn’t get something one of us knew how and had access to equipment to make them (anyone remember bean tin pistons ha ha)


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## REC (May 15, 2018)

Nabsim said:


> I would expect a wait on bits for mine (unless Merc side) as it’s a model that went away years ago. This 8 weeks doesn’t wash at all though, I order parts from all over the world and get them in a couple of weeks usually and that includes paying customs charges and the bit added on by courier for it. China can be a problem unless you go over and fill containers yourself but most other countries are quick.
> 
> Doesn’t matter what I think though it won’t make any difference, it’s only when everyone decides to expect decent customer service things will change
> 
> As to bike sprockets I never waited for one more than next day. If one shop didn’t have it we went to another who would. Unless you are running a veteran or vintage bike we never had problems. If we couldn’t get something one of us knew how and had access to equipment to make them (anyone remember bean tin pistons ha ha)



I think the wait is what has really worn us down! Cannot see why it all takes so long...letter has been delivered and waiting for a response! Hopefully, they will manage to do this in next two weeks as requested, but not holding my breath!


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## delicagirl (May 15, 2018)

i needed a transmission part for my 1993 mitsuibishi delica last year when i was in France....  i had it couriered over from UK by my local garage and it arrived in less than  48 hours......  the courier cost me about £50  -     

but i guess it depends on the specific part... 

but - where there is a will there is always a way.......


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## REC (May 16, 2018)

*Result!*

Cautious optimism here today....had am email saying that they agree to my letter. Asked if there was any other vehicle on their site we would consider "out of interest", but there is only one other the same. So I have explained that the only one has lower specs than ours and that we are reluctant to risk the same model again, asked them to confirm 100% refund is what is being offered....inconvenience, lack of use and upgrades which we have put on it to be taken into account. We have done about 1500 miles but 1000 is taking it to and from garages! Fingers crossed....


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## delicagirl (May 16, 2018)

i do hope you can get a full refund....   fingers crossed for you......


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## Minisorella (May 16, 2018)

REC said:


> Cautious optimism here today....had am email saying that they agree to my letter. Asked if there was any other vehicle on their site we would consider "out of interest", but there is only one other the same. So I have explained that the only one has lower specs than ours and that we are reluctant to risk the same model again, asked them to confirm 100% refund is what is being offered....inconvenience, lack of use and upgrades which we have put on it to be taken into account. We have done about 1500 miles but 1000 is taking it to and from garages! Fingers crossed....



Good luck Ruth! I've got a lot of fingers crossed for various people today but happy to add you to the mix! 
Well done for sticking to your guns


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## yorkslass (May 16, 2018)

I hope things work out for you. Next problem, finding another van you like.


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## Nabsim (May 17, 2018)

Fingers crossed here as well, brilliant news so far and it will certainly help you put it behind you. Better to have to find another than suffer on hating it more each day


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## REC (May 17, 2018)

Have just had it confirmed that they will refund the full cost and we plan to return it 15th June (away till that week) . Thanks for everyones support, just shows that we DONT have to accept poor quality. And you are right, we would have hated it more every day as it has been such a pain... Stopped all our planned trips and replaced them with days out waiting for the garages to sort the latest issue !
Actually has made me more positive about the dealer as they have been very quick to respond, thought we were due a long drawn out battle and potential legal costs.

NOW....start to look for another one!


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## delicagirl (May 17, 2018)

That's FAB news indeed.....    you must be so relieved....   so  the search begins !!!!!


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## Nabsim (May 17, 2018)

Yes excellent new and just what you needed. Complaints against companies aren't a bad thing it is how they deal with them that matters. While they were probably on a loser as soon as TS got involved its to their credit they have resolved it as quickly as they have.


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