# Glowplug warming problem on Fiat Ducato 2.2 100 multijet manufactured in 2008



## Roger Haworth (Nov 8, 2015)

I've been away since 21st September - it's 8th November today. During the trip through France, Spain, Portugal and now back in northern Spain I have had intermittent problems starting the van particularly from cold. I noticed when the ignition is turned on the glowplug warming light only stays on for a couple of seconds - even when the engine is cold. I recall that it used to stay on for a much longer period when starting from cold. The handbook says that if there is a problem with the glowplug warming system the glowplug warming light will stay on permanently when the ignition is switched on. Any advice or suggestions? I usually manage to start the engine by turning the ignition on and off a few times in quick succession which I assume heats the glowplugs a little on each occasion and cumulatively enough to start the engine when the starter motor is activated. Any help would be most gratefully received.If anyone is interested in my trip here's a link to my blog: Ann and Roger travel


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## witzend (Nov 8, 2015)

I have the  same engine and the lite has only ever shown just very briefly wether cold or warm 5 yrs now


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## n brown (Nov 8, 2015)

check voltage is getting to the plugs when the key is turned then check like this  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TcuJDd9Hho


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## Deleted member 3270 (Nov 8, 2015)

Roger Haworth said:


> I've been away since 21st September - it's 8th November today. During the trip through France, Spain, Portugal and now back in northern Spain I have had intermittent problems starting the van particularly from cold. I noticed when the ignition is turned on the glowplug warming light only stays on for a couple of seconds - even when the engine is cold. I recall that it used to stay on for a much longer period when starting from cold. The handbook says that if there is a problem with the glowplug warming system the glowplug warming light will stay on permanently when the ignition is switched on. Any advice or suggestions? I usually manage to start the engine by turning the ignition on and off a few times in quick succession which I assume heats the glowplugs a little on each occasion and cumulatively enough to start the engine when the starter motor is activated. Any help would be most gratefully received.If anyone is interested in my trip here's a link to my blog: Ann and Roger travel



Hi Rodger 
I have had this problem with my 4x4 dis connect all the leads to the glow plugs the with a piece of wire 1 end connected to the pos side to the battery and just touch the other to the center pole of the glow plug if it sparks then the plug is ok if not the plug as gone ( just change the plugs that  have gone and your problem is solved ..


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## andyjanet (Nov 8, 2015)

wilthebeast said:


> Hi Rodger
> I have had this problem with my 4x4 dis connect all the leads to the glow plugs the with a piece of wire 1 end connected to the pos side to the battery and just touch the other to the center pole of the glow plug if it sparks then the plug is ok if not the plug as gone ( just change the plugs that  have gone and your problem is solved ..



this will also spark if the glow plug is chuffed when glow plugs burn out it is not unusual for them to burn out live feed goes to earth this also damages relays and blows fuses.
 and what happens when you get five volt glow plugs putting 12 volts to them will make sure they need replacing 

 if you dont know what you are doing dont give this sort of advice out


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## Deleted member 3270 (Nov 8, 2015)

andyjanet said:


> this will also spark if the glow plug is chuffed when glow plugs burn out it is not unusual for them to burn out live feed goes to earth this also damages relays and blows fuses.
> and what happens when you get five volt glow plugs putting 12 volts to them will make sure they need replacing
> 
> if you dont know what you are doing dont give this sort of advice out



I would just like  know how a live feed to a disconnected glow plug would damage anything So how can a live feed with no curcuit go to earth ?


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## ricc (Nov 8, 2015)

some vehicles drop the voltage in the glowpug circuit and use 5 volt glowplugs,   if you dab 12 volts into a 5 volt plug youll probably burn it out.

though plugs normally just break and dont let any current flow they do rarely go the otherway and short circuit direct to earth which can pull a large current through the relay and burn that out aswell. 


having said all that,  by the time anyone notices the vehicle struggling to start theres probably  2 or 3 plugs that  have stopped working , they arnt expensive just replace the lot .... or the 3 out of four you can actually get at without spending hours stripping off other bits.     before you start undoing the nut to remove the wires from the top of the plug wedge rag or kitchen towel down round , behind the plug to catch the nut when you drop it, otherwise chances are one of them will try to hide down a crevice.    

if replacing plugs dont solve it your looking at replacing the relay that feeds the voltage to the plugs , just trace the wire back from the plugs to find it.

ive been driving diesel cars and vans since the late eighties,  replaced loads of glow plugs but only ever had ro replace one relay.


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## Tezza33 (Nov 8, 2015)

ricc said:


> having said all that,  by the time anyone notices the vehicle struggling to start theres probably  2 or 3 plugs that  have stopped working , they arnt expensive just replace the lot .... or the 3 out of four you can actually get at without spending hours stripping off other bits.     before you start undoing the nut to remove the wires from the top of the plug wedge rag or kitchen towel down round , behind the plug to catch the nut when you drop it, otherwise chances are one of them will try to hide down a crevice.


Although modern diesels are different that is good advice, when anybody came to me with a diesel difficult to start it was usually when the third glow plug stopped working, one or two had no effect untill extremely cold conditions


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## andyjanet (Nov 8, 2015)

wilthebeast said:


> I would just like  know how a live feed to a disconnected glow plug would damage anything So how can a live feed with no curcuit go to earth ?



As ricc has said if the glow plug short circuits to earth you will still get a flash from the centre post, your theory means this glow plug is working correctly where as it is in fact a short circuit which wil burn out relays and fuses/ wiring.the circuit you are talking about is made through the earth, Ie glow plug body to engine, engine earth strap to car body, car body earth strap back to battery, circuit complete whether it's a good glow plug or a short circuit glow plug. Andy


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## Deleted member 37170 (Nov 9, 2015)

Why do diesel engine vehicle owners never think of changing glow plugs?
I am old enough to remember the days when EVERY year you would whip out the spark plugs on your petrol engine car, clean them, check the gap, and/or replace them as a matter of course.

Glow plugs do deteriorate, they carbon up, they break down. Maybe they don't give problems over the short term like spark plugs, but replacement is really a very good idea say every 2 - 5 years or so. They are cheap and, most, are easy to fit so just do it.

On some occasions the "Timer" may fail. Some have a timer fitted on the relay circuit that switches on the glow plugs for say 3 to 5 secs according to the outside temperature (They work on a bi-metal strip.) Some of these sort can be adjusted with a screwdriver but most are sealed for life.  

So change the glow plugs and if that doesn't do the trick, change the glow plug relay unit.


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## eddyt (Nov 9, 2015)

Roger Haworth said:


> I've been away since 21st September - it's 8th November today. During the trip through France, Spain, Portugal and now back in northern Spain I have had intermittent problems starting the van particularly from cold. I noticed when the ignition is turned on the glowplug warming light only stays on for a couple of seconds - even when the engine is cold. I recall that it used to stay on for a much longer period when starting from cold. The handbook says that if there is a problem with the glowplug warming system the glowplug warming light will stay on permanently when the ignition is switched on. Any advice or suggestions? I usually manage to start the engine by turning the ignition on and off a few times in quick succession which I assume heats the glowplugs a little on each occasion and cumulatively enough to start the engine when the starter motor is activated. Any help would be most gratefully received.If anyone is interested in my trip here's a link to my blog: Ann and Roger travel



i dont think the warning light being on for a few seconds means there is a problem with the glow plugs.
in my experience a direct injection engine would start ok with dud heater plugs.
i would change the fuel and air filter to see if it improves it as you probably have done a lot of miles.
they are 12 volt plugs if you check the voltage.


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## Deleted member 37170 (Nov 9, 2015)

eddyt said:


> i dont think the warning light being on for a few seconds means there is a problem with the glow plugs.
> in my experience a direct injection engine would start ok with dud heater plugs.
> i would change the fuel and air filter to see if it improves it as you probably have done a lot of miles.
> they are 12 volt plugs if you check the voltage.



Very interesting .....  I wonder why they bother to fit them then?


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## listerdiesel (Nov 9, 2015)

Bopper said:


> Very interesting .....  I wonder why they bother to fit them then?



Most engines with glow plugs are indirect injection, direct injection engines don't as a rule require them. It's to do with the amount of heat generated by the compression of the air in the cylinder and how much is lost through the head of the piston, the cylinder head and the separate combustion chamber. 

Our Mercedes OM904 engine has no glowplugs.

Peter


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## eddyt (Nov 9, 2015)

Bopper said:


> Very interesting .....  I wonder why they bother to fit them then?



there only fitted on modern diesels to cut down on smoke  on a cold start. And smoother running
till warmed up.


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## Tezza33 (Nov 9, 2015)

listerdiesel said:


> Most engines with glow plugs are indirect injection, direct injection engines don't as a rule require them.
> Our Mercedes OM904 engine has no glowplugs.
> 
> Peter


Absolutely correct, my 2.8 JTD being a common rail engine doesn't have them, I must confess I had to check because I didn't think the OP's engine would have glow plugs and was surprised that it did and that they are sometimes a problem on a vehicle that new


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## Roger Haworth (Nov 9, 2015)

Many thanks for all your replies and advice. The service schedule for my van makes no mention of checking or replacing glow plugs and as has been suggested I think it would make sense to do this on a regular basis. I suspect however that the current problem with my van might relate more to the relay cutting out prematurely before the glow plugs have heated adequately as I have found if I turn the ignition off and on a few times in quick succession before activating the starter motor the van starts okay. Hopefully I can keep going and get back to UK and have it checked out by my friendly local garage. Roger.


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## Roger Haworth (Nov 9, 2015)

eddyt said:


> i dont think the warning light being on for a few seconds means there is a problem with the glow plugs.
> in my experience a direct injection engine would start ok with dud heater plugs.
> i would change the fuel and air filter to see if it improves it as you probably have done a lot of miles.
> they are 12 volt plugs if you check the voltage.



The fuel and air filters on this van have been replaced within the last few months so I don't think they are the problem.


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## Roger Haworth (Dec 4, 2015)

Many thanks to all of you for your suggestions and comments. 

We managed to get our van home via Brittany Ferries Santander to Portsmouth. Scary moment coming off the ferry when the van wouldn't start straight away but did get going before we held up any other vehicles.

Our local garage replaced all four glowplugs and now the van starts fine.

Cost: 4 glowplugs £76.32 Labour £202.50 (both inclusive of vat). According to our garage the Ducato glowplugs are very inaccessible and it involves a lot of stripping down and reassembling to replace them!?

Roger.


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## Tezza33 (Dec 4, 2015)

It is good you are sorted and thanks for posting results, I would suggest trusting a good French garage though if you get problems over there because the labour charges are usually a lot less


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## witzend (Dec 4, 2015)

*Thanks*



Roger Haworth said:


> Many thanks to all of you for your suggestions and comments.
> Cost: 4 glowplugs £76.32 Labour £202.50 (both inclusive of vat). According to our garage the Ducato glowplugs are very inaccessible and it involves a lot of stripping down and reassembling to replace them!?Roger.



Not something you'd like to do  regularly as suggested. Thanks for letting us know the cure


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## Roger Haworth (Dec 4, 2015)

tezza33 said:


> It is good you are sorted and thanks for posting results, I would suggest trusting a good French garage though if you get problems over there because the labour charges are usually a lot less



Un petit problem! Je ne parle pas francais!


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## big tom (Dec 4, 2015)

andyjanet said:


> this will also spark if the glow plug is chuffed when glow plugs burn out it is not unusual for them to burn out live feed goes to earth this also damages relays and blows fuses.
> and what happens when you get five volt glow plugs putting 12 volts to them will make sure they need replacing
> 
> if you dont know what you are doing dont give this sort of advice out



I have have been in the garage business most of my life and this has always been the method used,it does not take a lot to work out if they are 5volt glow plugs to put 5volt to them.


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## Deleted member 37170 (Dec 4, 2015)

Thanks for the update.
I have fitted glow plugs in many a Ducato engine and it is a trifle tricky but can be done in well under an hour. The problem arises if they break off in the head and probably that is why the garages charge so much, to allow for the odd one that has to have a head removal job done.


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