# genny or hook up  calor or refillable



## freespirits (Oct 28, 2011)

hi, newbies here about to go fulltime m/h, off to france dec heading south to portugal to slowly overwinter through to spain then back up through enjoying france, any help appreciated on following aspects.  internet regularily and tv a must to check financial movements ie footsie.. gas.. whats the best way to go regarding gas and whether to go for a genny or hookup, we are wildcampers full time and usually manage ok but neither of us has done france portugal or spain. maybe back in uk next summer, maybe not.. any suggestions appreciated. thanks.


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## John H (Oct 28, 2011)

freespirits said:


> hi, newbies here about to go fulltime m/h, off to france dec heading south to portugal to slowly overwinter through to spain then back up through enjoying france, any help appreciated on following aspects.  internet regularily and tv a must to check financial movements ie footsie.. gas.. whats the best way to go regarding gas and whether to go for a genny or hookup, we are wildcampers full time and usually manage ok but neither of us has done france portugal or spain. maybe back in uk next summer, maybe not.. any suggestions appreciated. thanks.



Good morning and welcome

You will find as many opinions as there are members on those questions but as someone who spends over half the year most years in Europe I can tell you how we survive:

1. Solar panel fixed on the roof - removes the need for hook-up. We have an 80 amp panel and just the one leisure battery and it meets our needs - but others will recommend a couple of both (or more!).

2. We call in at (cheap) campsites when we fancy a lingering shower - although for a small fee I can tell you where you can get good free showers in France (on the other hand, see my final comment!) or when we want to do the laundry. Then we use hook-up.

3. We don't have a genny - having camped in remote quiet spots and had a van+genny turn up next to me it is one of those rare times that I briefly want the return of capital punishment for idiots! - but this is an aspect of your request that will probably lead to war among the various pro and anti factions.

4. Internet - there are various wi-fi  hotspots (especially the car parks of MacDonalds) and libraries have internet (often free).

5. Gas - DON'T take Calor because it cannot be found in Europe and you will just be carrying around a hunk of useless metal. Again, there will be lots of conflicting advice about which cylinders/regulators to get - so take your choice. CampingGaz is almost universal across Western Europe but very very expensive. If you are going to do this a lot then I recommend an LPG system (such as Gaslow, which we have, or Alugas). LPG is widespread across all of Europe but ironically most difficult to find in the most visited country - Spain. But even in Spain it is not a problem if you plan ahead. LPG systems are expensive initially (ours cost £400 to supply and fit) but rapidly pay for themselves in cheaper gas (ours paid for itself inside 18 months).

Finally - don't forget that most of Europe actually welcomes motorhomes (unlike this miserable country!) and if you look up the website CAMPINGCAR-INFOS you will find free or cheap aires not only in France (some with showers!) but Spain, Portugal and the rest of Europe too. There are other websites - look at the country forums on this website.

Happy travels
John


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## Tbear (Oct 28, 2011)

Hi Freespirits

Sounds like you need a couple of large solar panels and leisure batteries. Then a good sized sat dish.

Gas is freely available in France.

Give us more details of your present setup and you may get more replies.

Richard


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## John H (Oct 28, 2011)

Hi again - I forgot about the sat dish!

Ours is a wind-up Maxview fitted by Snellyvision (£500 inc fitting). It is a 66 cm dish which will get full reception down to around Barcelona - but any further south it only gets tv news and BBC radio. In the extreme south of Spain you will need one at least a metre across (probably bigger) which may not be practical on a motorhome! I know that many people on here use freestanding dishes which are a whole lot cheaper. Again - pay money; make choice.

Good luck


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## David & Ann (Oct 28, 2011)

freespirits said:


> hi, newbies here about to go fulltime m/h, off to france dec heading south to portugal to slowly overwinter through to spain then back up through enjoying france, any help appreciated on following aspects.  internet regularily and tv a must to check financial movements ie footsie.. gas.. whats the best way to go regarding gas and whether to go for a genny or hookup, we are wildcampers full time and usually manage ok but neither of us has done france portugal or spain. maybe back in uk next summer, maybe not.. any suggestions appreciated. thanks.




Regards TV and Internet, I leave that to others more able to explain than myself. Gas bottles: You have your GB bottle I presume. Get an identical spare gas pipe you have at the moment for your gas bottle. When in Spain, Get a gas Spanish gas bottle from a restaurant or anywhere availabe (do not sign a contract with any Spanish company, get it for free, should be quite easy) Then go into any FERETERIA (Ironmonger, General store) and buy the Adapator that goes onto the Spanish gas bottle and a couple of Jubilee ring clips, the size to fit the around the gas hose pipe. Cut of the end of your spare pipe that goes into the of your GB bottle. Put a jubilee clip on the pipe first, then fit the Adaptor onto that end by heating up the rubber hose to make it easier to fit the Adaptor. Tighten the jubilee clip around the pipe. If you have a single bottle system, remove the the GB pipe to your GB bottle and screw in the GB end into the feed pipe, lock in the other end, Spanish Adaptor into the Spanish bottle. There you have it. You are running on Spanish gas. If the Spanish bottle is empty, reverse the operation to GB gas until you exchange your empty Spanish bottle for a full one. Do the same again to go back to Spanish gas.Spanish gas is available at most gas stations and shouldn't be a problem. Some Members might say you need a Regulator for the Spanish bottle (which is absolutely correct) I have regulators for my system but not for the Spanish bottle. I don't have a problem, but it would be wise to listen to what other Members say and suggest. Make sure you have gas in your GB bottle for the interchange when your Spanish bottle runs out. You can do the same for your French or whatever Country bottle you have.
Hookup: If you go for hookup, you need to go into campsites for this, which can make you dip into your pockets for fees and can be expensive.
Generator: Ideal, if you don't go into camp sites, saving fees. Plug in your hookup into your genny, this should charge up your batteries. Caution: make sure you use your Genny in places that do not disturb other Campers and local surroundings. I hope this helps.


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## n brown (Oct 28, 2011)

take 2 calor bottles,when first is empty,dump it by a bin and find a local bottle and regulator,keeping the other calor for back up. 2 batteries and a panel are good but worth having a small genny for times you may need it.these are big spaces and i rarely found myself near enough to anyone to worry about the noise.


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## vwalan (Oct 28, 2011)

hi. if you get a spanish bottle you can get a straight through adaptor that will take the old uk butane screw on regulator that is commonly used in france ,germany morocco etc. it will fit most portugese bottles as well. i use one and then i can fit moroccan or french bottles etc . i also adapt clip on uk butane bottles to this type of regulator. 
you can fill bottles with an adaptor filla available off ebay . bit expensive in spain .but works well in portugal and france. and here. 
solar best get a few big panels .i use 80wt panels a banjk of 3 fits nicely across the roof of the truck. .use 240v fridge ,washing machines ,spindryers . saves going on prison --sorry campsites. 
dont have sat. just use a uk digi telly with ariel gets foreign tv . interesting . 
have fun we try to. cheers alan.


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## kenspain (Oct 28, 2011)

Its getting a bit hard  to wildcamp here now on the coast but inland is ok just make sure that there is no campsite near you must be 4km away and your be ok. If you are going into Portugal make sure you get your gas in Spain as Portugal  it is much more a bottle Spain 13.60. last year 27 euro i think in Portugal we paid.  :wave:


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## vindiboy (Oct 28, 2011)

DO NOT RUN A GENNY when wild camping especially if on a beach in Spain or Portugal, it will cause the Police to chuck you off quicker than Jack Robinson, we  wild camp extensively in all Countries , we have a 75 watt Solar Panel three 80 amp hr. batteries and a 2000 watt inverter and always have enough power, I have a Genny, Honda i100  which I invariably leave at home as I  rarely use it GAS, we take two Calor 13 kg bottles with us  and I have a Spanish Repsol bottle 13 kg which is easily, cheaply  changeable in Spain and Portugal, France too I am told but not tried it there, Calor bottles CAN be refilled in some places in Spain and Portugal ,{ Blue Elephant is a place I have had my Calors refilled in Portugal at Villa Real/ Monte Gordo }I have BOTTLE Regulators on my bottles in my van, this way it is so SIMPLE to  fit a bottle from ANY Country using their regulators which are easily obtained.We seldom go on Campsites so hookups are rarely used ,we did a 130 night trip away from last September, France ,Germany ,France  to Spain and then  Portugal, wild camped , Aires , Stelplatz all the  time No Campsites at all and had no problems with Gas or Power. We don't bother with Telly, I have a DVD player and we  sometimes watch a  film if we feel like it, we find that we can get Radio 4  most of the time if we want to listen to the Doom and Gloom on the news   but can happily live with out that and we don't read Newspapers as we prefer to forget the World once away, Internet is available wirelessly in lots of places and also go in to Libraries if you must it is usually free to use their Computers or your own Lappy. Spanish gas bottles are best obtained at Car Boot Sales in Spain or any other Country  for that matter,  Best wishes have lots of fun, see you on a Beach somewhere Malc.


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## John H (Oct 28, 2011)

On our trip last winter we stayed at the following free aires, all of which supplied free electic hook-up:

Rugles, Nieulle-Pont-Pierre and Ouzouere-sur-Trezee (all in France and the latter with free showers too!)
Caceres in Spain
Miranda de Corvo in Portugal

There are many others (see the CAMPINGCAR-INFOS website) and even more where the electric supply costs a few euros (3 - 5 euros seems to be common, the more expensive ones being on the coast)

Another plus point - the network of free aires in Spain and Portugal is growing (but at the same time they are cracking down on the vast motorhome "cities" in many popular beach areas).

All in all, once you cross the Channel it is a motorhomer's dream!


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## freespirits (Oct 28, 2011)

*many thanks John, all info invaluable and most helpful, thank you.*



John H said:


> Good morning and welcome
> 
> You will find as many opinions as there are members on those questions but as someone who spends over half the year most years in Europe I can tell you how we survive:
> 
> ...


 thank you John


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## lebesset (Oct 28, 2011)

well , as a french resident I can assure you that you will be passing through france pretty rapidly in december !!!

so basically  base your gas bottles on what is required in spain/portugal 

question is , how many bottles can you fit in your locker , what size ,what do you have at the moment , and do you have regulators on the bottles or one fixed to the vehicle ?
without knowing that it is impossible to give accurate advice


incidentally , in spain gas in bottles is available on every corner , gas pumps much more rare and the gas is more expensive than in bottles ...so gaslow , or similar , actually costs you money even if they were free [ which they are not ]


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## vwalan (Oct 28, 2011)

:help: ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.hi john h .
that must be some panel on your roof if it produces 80amp. have you been stealing the solar banks from spanish fields. 
they grow them in spain ,fields full of them .amazing.


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## John H (Oct 28, 2011)

vwalan said:


> :help: ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.hi john h .
> that must be some panel on your roof if it produces 80amp. have you been stealing the solar banks from spanish fields.
> they grow them in spain ,fields full of them .amazing.



Sorry but you know I'm technically illiterate - I think I meant to say 80 watt!  But yes, I have seen those banks - pretty amazing, aren't they?


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## vwalan (Oct 28, 2011)

we park by one near polmones near gib. thousands of them . we do wonder if we could break in and take a few . never worth the punishment . getrs more every year they must plant seeds for them. and those big eared towers they get more as well . must be something in the soil. 
if you ever need a park up its by the big fuel and gas plant just gib side of polmones. hard standing .its an industrial site thats slow to get going, ideal . can smell abit of gas sometimes but we dont mind . ideal place for brake checking etc.


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## John H (Oct 28, 2011)

lebesset said:


> incidentally , in spain gas in bottles is available on every corner , gas pumps much more rare and the gas is more expensive than in bottles ...so gaslow , or similar , actually costs you money even if they were free [ which they are not ]



I'm not sure this is true. Acording to the Cepsa site the current cost of a refill for an 11kg cylinder is 13 euros. The last time I filled an 11 kg Gaslow cylinder in Spain (in March) it cost me a little less than that. Plus, with Gaslow (or similar) you don't need to have a different cylinder or regulator for each country that you visit. You win on the availabilty point, though - but lpg outlets are increasing in number.


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## vwalan (Oct 28, 2011)

gas at pumps is definately dearer . if it wasnt i would use my gas bottle filling adaptor . handy if needed but not in spain. 
look on ebay . much cheaper than gaslow or alugas. no need to change regulators . mind i can fill most bottles with my kit . even some clip ons .
 cepsa are now doing see through fibre bottles as well as the stainless shiny ones . maroc is best £4,50 used to be 3quid before the pound fell. tip them into other bottles .cant leave with empty bottles.


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## John H (Oct 28, 2011)

vwalan said:


> gas at pumps is definately dearer . if it wasnt i would use my gas bottle filling adaptor . handy if needed but not in spain.



Have pump prices gone up a lot recently then? In March there was certainly no difference.


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## lebesset (Oct 29, 2011)

in april when I was last in spain it was about 20% dearer at the pump [ because of the road tax they now charge I presume ]  , about the same in portugal and france ; of course , having the bottles delivered by the truck instead of having to go and fetch it saves money as well !

like alan I carry the equipment to fill any bottle but now rarely use it ; wouldn't touch gaslow at any price having run lpg powered vehicles for 20 years and had failures on the so called 'safety' cut outs ; I will only fill bottles that are 100% empty , and then only with the exact quantity as specified by the manufacturers ....safety first is my motto ...as an industrial chemist I soon learned that mistakes can be dangerous ; of course , as I always empty bottles completely I don't get any problems with accumulated heavy ends either

as a recent example , I just bought an Energas bottle from the supermarket here in france , cost me €1 deposit + €17 for 10Kgs butane ...at my local  filling station lpg is €0.86/litre so exactly the same cost

no guarantee prices  haven't changed in spain since april  of course


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## Tbear (Oct 29, 2011)

wouldn't touch gaslow at any price having run lpg powered vehicles for 20 years and had failures on the so called 'safety' cut outs 


Hi Lebesset.

Surly a vehicle would run off liquid LPG so its tank can be 100% full so a safety cut off would not be needed unless it was duel purpose.

Richard


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## charliechan (Oct 29, 2011)

*Gaslows*

We've got Gaslows fitted x2 bottles with auto change over. Ps get the the adapters so u can fill on the continent. We find gas is readily available. But u do need the adapters to fill up the are x2 different ones. About tenner each. I know theres bit of an out outlay. But u will recoup the cost, because its cheap to refill at the pump. Also peeps have mentioned solar which is a good idea. There wBas a thread on that, about doing a bulk order.
Enjoy your trip. We travel Europe alot, using the aires. Some are free others are paid, but relatively cheap. 

Oh we goto go, we're wild camped near st Michael mount, kernow.  meeting friends for fry up.


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2011)

hi there are 3 other adaptors apart from uk baynet. the acme thread ,french cup. and the spanish new one. 
gaslow is a rip off .cant put it any other way. ebay filler about 30quid. ideal.
yes lebby is correct tanks do have cut off valves sometimes . i prefer the bleed off valves . unscrew abit like a cycle valve . gas comes out ,start filling when liquid comes out stop filling and close valve. have the exact same system on the huge calor tank in my garden. my early lpg tank as it as well .best system i think. but i empty bottles upside down so heavy ends dont collect in bottom of bottles. 
certainly in spain bottles are the way . you can change the repsol bottles with portugese repsol so i,m told .i use cepsa . the empty bottles make nice fuel tanks for trikes with a bit of work. nice n shiney.


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## John H (Oct 29, 2011)

Well, freespirits, I said you'd stir things up with this one! :lol-049:

Just one more point about gas (he said, putting his non-technical head above the parapets!) - yes the new lpg adaptor that Gaslow sell is ridiculously expensive and I don't have one. Nonetheless, I have never had anytrouble filling up in Spain or anywhere else because the nice Respol man always produces the appropriate adaptor from deep within the bowels of his shed. And, being non-technical I go for safety first. Alan and lebesset are clearly not technically illiterate so they may feel confident rigging up their own systems. It all depends whether you're a scardy like me or an expert is the behaviour of gasses. All I can say is that I would not swap my Gaslow system (except for when I swap my van and move the cylinders over!). :goodluck:


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2011)

its not technical. a 13kg bottle can take 26litres . start from empty ,when the clock on the pump says 24ltr stop. you only pay for what you take. same as gaslow it may or maynot stop. 
a friend carried on filling his till the pump stopped .he got 35 ltr about in still worked fine .hejust did it to see . i have gone to30ltr before but stopped . the pumps are suposed to turn of at about 90%full but i cant promise . i know i have a 1200 ltr tank at home and it very often takes 1150 ltr. 
anyway lets not go there , shant mention it again on this thread. 
uk bottle , get a french or spanish bottle . use a stright through adapter on the spanish bottle that takes the french reg. mind autogas can supply a lh thread french style adapter to uk propane if need be . (fes gas). i had one made several years ago .now they are about 7quid.


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## John H (Oct 29, 2011)

vwalan said:


> its not technical. a 13kg bottle can take 26litres . start from empty ,when the clock on the pump says 24ltr stop. you only pay for what you take. same as gaslow it may or maynot stop.
> a friend carried on filling his till the pump stopped .he got 35 ltr about in still worked fine .hejust did it to see . i have gone to30ltr before but stopped . the pumps are suposed to turn of at about 90%full but i cant promise . i know i have a 1200 ltr tank at home and it very often takes 1150 ltr.
> anyway lets not go there , shant mention it again on this thread.
> uk bottle , get a french or spanish bottle . use a stright through adapter on the spanish bottle that takes the french reg. mind autogas can supply a lh thread french style adapter to uk propane if need be . (fes gas). i had one made several years ago .now they are about 7quid.



Hi Alan

It may not be technically difficult for you but...............
The advantage of Gaslow for an idiot like me is that it has an automatic cut-off, so you don't have to do any calculations. So it all depends how confident you feel.

:have fun:


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2011)

come on john you can read the clock on the pump surely.
the shut offs do fail.


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## John H (Oct 29, 2011)

vwalan said:


> come on john you can read the clock on the pump surely.
> the shut offs do fail.



When it comes to potential bombs, I guess I plead cowardice! I find it odd that some people won't go to the Middle East because they are afraid; they presumably think I'm an idiot for my attitude to gas. That's life - but if I meet you on the road, maybe you could teach me to overcome it. :wave:


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2011)

so when do we leave for the middle east. i,ve been saving all the awake and watchtower mags that my jehovah witness friends bring round. find them very handy to pass on at customs and police checks . ha ha . by the time we get there and you see a few filling a bottle from another bottle smoking and lighting matches . you wont worry about gas. takes ages at customs as i wont give them my passport till i check their identity to make sure they arent just thugs dressing up. been known to mess them for best part of a day. hee hee .no different there to here all authority as to be watched. and annoyed. 
we could get on the silk route be in indiain a few weeks . could go real wild camping then.
it is a minefield of shocks over there. but after a while becomes normal. we could join up with ice truckers show them how its done .


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## lebesset (Oct 29, 2011)

duel fuel ...the 80% 'rule' [ it isn't a rule eg calor fill some bottles to more than that ] is to allow for  a rise in temperature increasing the pressure [ remember boyle's law from school ?] . so it applies equally to tanks used for propulsion 

although it is ultra conservative I stick to 80% even though I am not going to put a bottle in the sun at 60C in the middle of the namib desert , which 80% is designed to allow for 

and , like alan . I KNOW my 2 times table and KNOW I don't fill beyond 80% ....if you fill a Gaslow you HOPE the safety stop works and you don't fill beyond that , you certainly don't KNOW ...as previously stated I have had these devices fail , hence my lack of trust


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## Tbear (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi Lebesset,

I agree that if its duel purpose fuel tank then the 80% rule reduces the chances of liquid LPG getting to a burner however Boyles law is for a constant temperature. It states that volume and pressure are inversely proportional so if you increase the pressure you reduce the volume. I cannot see the need for the liquid in a high pressure tank needing room to expand by 25% in the case of a vehicle fuel tank. I must stress this is all theory on my part and I am in no way suggesting that anyone should exceed the 80% rule.

Richard


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## runnach (Oct 29, 2011)

I am doing well, keeping quiet .....gas bottles upside down over 80 percent filled ... must try it when I re,new my gas certificate.

channa


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## lebesset (Oct 29, 2011)

richard , correctly stated Boyles law is P1V1/T1 =P2V2/T2 , so all three things can be variable and inter-related ; thus , when the volume is fixed by the container , an increase of temperature leads to an increase in pressure 

in reality , where the lpg is used as a liquid , 90% or more would be quite safe in european conditions as the tank is only pressurised to about 10 bar by the pump ; bear in mind all these pressure vessels for lpg are designed to be operated at 15 bar , and have a test pressure of 30 bar !!

so I fully agree that 80% is actually unnecessary  ...as I said ...ultra conservative


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2011)

hiya channa
 do you have acops ?
i only ask as gas safe etc dont cover motor homes not for hire or reward. 
bit like corgi. 
you can enter into usefull discusion we dont bite .
well not too hard .hee hee. gas bottles uoside down left open if heavy tailsends are in there they might drop out. 
calor on their websit quote bottles filled between 80-90%.


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## runnach (Oct 29, 2011)

Indeed Acops qualified in basic gas installations in respect of Leisure accomodation vehicles. 

So I would hope my opinions are valid. 



Channa


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## Tbear (Oct 29, 2011)

Not sure about the P1 V1 stuff as my memory does not go back that far and I,m too idle to look it up but I'll go with the rest of it.


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## Tbear (Oct 29, 2011)

channa said:


> Indeed Acops qualified in basic gas installations in respect of Leisure accomodation vehicles.
> 
> So I would hope my opinions are valid.
> 
> ...



So what are your opinions???


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2011)

indeed they are . i wasnt sure so thought better ask, i know lots pof gas safe and ex corgi qualified that cant officially sign a paper as qualified on the subject.9i,m sure you do as well. life is full of daft things .
but all comments read and aphreciated. no ft.02.co2.co.rat.effn.dp1.needed here. 
to everyone else have lots of fun but think think think again if you have the slightest doubt of your ability dont do it. get help. if you see a problem then dont do it some of dont see problem we see the answer. 
just an obsticle is in the way.


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## runnach (Oct 29, 2011)

LPG is a refining process from oil, a Heavy end in my mind is a bottle that has oil residue in the bottom hence reducing the true capacity I.E volume of the bottle therefore easy to overfill, bearing in mind  gas companies work on mass.

I have only seen two so far this season.

I dont see how inversion removes the heavy end. 

Normal butane and propane bottles have a ball bearing valve which is prone by design to leak when bottles arent stored upright. 

The only exception to this to my knowledge is gas for FLT,s which are designed to be used laid down. 

If people wish to decant in their back gardens IMHO that is a different proposition to bottles stored on a campsite. 

Channa


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## runnach (Oct 29, 2011)

vwalan said:


> indeed they are . i wasnt sure so thought better ask, i know lots pof gas safe and ex corgi qualified that cant officially sign a paper as qualified on the subject.9i,m sure you do as well. life is full of daft things .
> but all comments read and aphreciated. no ft.02.co2.co.rat.effn.dp1.needed here.
> to everyone else have lots of fun but think think think again if you have the slightest doubt of your ability dont do it. get help. if you see a problem then dont do it some of dont see problem we see the answer.
> just an obsticle is in the way.



Yes the gas safe thing is a bit of  amoney spinner in my book.

Had a young lad working with us gas safe registered but cant touch the Morco boilers we predominantly work on ....like wise Morco in your house I can touch it ....

The difference is gas pressure and jetting ;;;;;;;;;no more . stupid 

Channa


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## Tbear (Oct 29, 2011)

Hi Channa,

Sorry but I am being a bit thick, you have seen two what. If its over filled cylinders I'm impressed as i'm lucky to get a full one

Richard


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## runnach (Oct 29, 2011)

Tbear said:


> Hi Channa,
> 
> Sorry but I am being a bit thick, you have seen two what. If its over filled cylinders I'm impressed as i'm lucky to get a full one
> 
> Richard



indeed overfilled 
Channa


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2011)

i have a morco in my trailer . made by fagor ,spanish . i also buy water heaters in morocco . chinese made . work better in fact. come with auto fire up. worked with a d cell battery. much cheaper as well. just had a ferroli lpg boiler fitted in the house.difficult getting a simple plain lpg fire these days ended up with a fake coal one by flavel. had it all signed up properly. 
keep up the good work. 
i,m not an expert . ex unknown factor spert a drip under pressure. hee hee .neither am i iliterate i know who my father is.


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## runnach (Oct 29, 2011)

vwalan said:


> i have a morco in my trailer . made by fagor ,spanish . i also buy water heaters in morocco . chinese made . work better in fact. come with auto fire up. worked with a d cell battery. much cheaper as well. just had a ferroli lpg boiler fitted in the house.difficult getting a simple plain lpg fire these days ended up with a fake coal one by flavel. had it all signed up properly.
> keep up the good work.
> i,m not an expert . ex unknown factor spert a drip under pressure. hee hee .neither am i iliterate i know who my father is.



Yes Morcos are imported under licence to the UK Aspes are the same boiler and Fagor offer loads of spare parts for lots of things ;

I loke th eMorco simple and bullet proof ;....ELM Le Blanc and Bosch over engineered when they dont need to be 

KISS ...........Keep it simple Stupids 

Channa


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2011)

channa i once visited the fagor factory up oin northern spain to the right of santander but up in the hills . had a broken bit on the morco. my fault . very helpfull. guided tour . seems its not built to the same spanish spec so couldnt get bits from fagor agents in spain. but good heater. have fitted loads of the chinese maroc ones also seem good and alot cheaper.


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## runnach (Oct 29, 2011)

vwalan said:


> channa i once visited the fagor factory up oin northern spain to the right of santander but up in the hills . had a broken bit on the morco. my fault . very helpfull. guided tour . seems its not built to the same spanish spec so couldnt get bits from fagor agents in spain. but good heater. have fitted loads of the chinese maroc ones also seem good and alot cheaper.



TBH we have probably on what a colleague and I look after 250 morcos : aspes out of a fleet of 287 the rest being ELM Le blancs and Bosch....it i snow the end of season every Morco descaled and fettled ...the rest we leave .....we want Morcos far easier.

I did a job for a 'friend ' last week which in turn was for the campsite .....Bosch talk about over complicating matters..... I am a firm fan of thhe Morco.

Channa


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## bigpieeater (Oct 29, 2011)

John H said:


> Good morning and welcome
> 
> You will find as many opinions as there are members on those questions but as someone who spends over half the year most years in Europe I can tell you how we survive:
> 
> ...



Hi Freespirits
Although I don't see eye to eye with John H, (he's a bit too far left for my capitalist views!!) I have to say that this is the sort of answer/advice people need on these type of websites.
There is hope for us yet John H!


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## John H (Oct 29, 2011)

bigpieeater said:


> There is hope for us yet John H!



This is making me very uneasy - you'll be proposing next! :lol-049:


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## freespirits (Oct 29, 2011)

John H said:


> This is making me very uneasy - you'll be proposing next! :lol-049:


thanks to everyone for their thoughts and advice,definately not into messing about with gas stuff myself, and.. im sure somewhere in all the replies is the answer im gonna go for, its deciding which.. we hope to be out of here by 8th Dec, all the signs are good as house now empty and g/f working her months notice. We cant wait to get going, like little kids all excited to get going. hope we get to meet some of you guys out there, were a normal couple who like the campervan way of life so much its to be our way of life forever..lol. again thanks everyone, regards. Steve and Sue,  shes the capitalist one, im just poor..hehehe....


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## freespirits (Oct 29, 2011)

vindiboy said:


> DO NOT RUN A GENNY when wild camping especially if on a beach in Spain or Portugal, it will cause the Police to chuck you off quicker than Jack Robinson, we  wild camp extensively in all Countries , we have a 75 watt Solar Panel three 80 amp hr. batteries and a 2000 watt inverter and always have enough power, I have a Genny, Honda i100  which I invariably leave at home as I  rarely use it GAS, we take two Calor 13 kg bottles with us  and I have a Spanish Repsol bottle 13 kg which is easily, cheaply  changeable in Spain and Portugal, France too I am told but not tried it there, Calor bottles CAN be refilled in some places in Spain and Portugal ,{ Blue Elephant is a place I have had my Calors refilled in Portugal at Villa Real/ Monte Gordo }I have BOTTLE Regulators on my bottles in my van, this way it is so SIMPLE to  fit a bottle from ANY Country using their regulators which are easily obtained.We seldom go on Campsites so hookups are rarely used ,we did a 130 night trip away from last September, France ,Germany ,France  to Spain and then  Portugal, wild camped , Aires , Stelplatz all the  time No Campsites at all and had no problems with Gas or Power. We don't bother with Telly, I have a DVD player and we  sometimes watch a  film if we feel like it, we find that we can get Radio 4  most of the time if we want to listen to the Doom and Gloom on the news   but can happily live with out that and we don't read Newspapers as we prefer to forget the World once away, Internet is available wirelessly in lots of places and also go in to Libraries if you must it is usually free to use their Computers or your own Lappy. Spanish gas bottles are best obtained at Car Boot Sales in Spain or any other Country  for that matter,  Best wishes have lots of fun, see you on a Beach somewhere Malc.



thanks malc


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## freespirits (Oct 30, 2011)

Tbear said:


> Hi Freespirits
> 
> Sounds like you need a couple of large solar panels and leisure batteries. Then a good sized sat dish.
> 
> ...


 
hi and thanks, my surrent system is calor 6kg x 2.. the standard uk system, tho as its a conversion on an iveco using a bailey donor im not sure of the year.this van was bought as a completed conversion so very few details as to year of donor.i see on ebay a single bottle system with a reserve of 150 on it, thinking of going for it as guy selling will assist/advise on doing the install. we dont use alot of gas anyway so a single to start of with and the euro adapters should be good to go  and see how it goes.do you agree? assuming the system can be upgraded later if needed. thanks again.  Steve


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## freespirits (Oct 30, 2011)

vindiboy said:


> DO NOT RUN A GENNY when wild camping especially if on a beach in Spain or Portugal, it will cause the Police to chuck you off quicker than Jack Robinson, we  wild camp extensively in all Countries , we have a 75 watt Solar Panel three 80 amp hr. batteries and a 2000 watt inverter and always have enough power, I have a Genny, Honda i100  which I invariably leave at home as I  rarely use it GAS, we take two Calor 13 kg bottles with us  and I have a Spanish Repsol bottle 13 kg which is easily, cheaply  changeable in Spain and Portugal, France too I am told but not tried it there, Calor bottles CAN be refilled in some places in Spain and Portugal ,{ Blue Elephant is a place I have had my Calors refilled in Portugal at Villa Real/ Monte Gordo }I have BOTTLE Regulators on my bottles in my van, this way it is so SIMPLE to  fit a bottle from ANY Country using their regulators which are easily obtained.We seldom go on Campsites so hookups are rarely used ,we did a 130 night trip away from last September, France ,Germany ,France  to Spain and then  Portugal, wild camped , Aires , Stelplatz all the  time No Campsites at all and had no problems with Gas or Power. We don't bother with Telly, I have a DVD player and we  sometimes watch a  film if we feel like it, we find that we can get Radio 4  most of the time if we want to listen to the Doom and Gloom on the news   but can happily live with out that and we don't read Newspapers as we prefer to forget the World once away, Internet is available wirelessly in lots of places and also go in to Libraries if you must it is usually free to use their Computers or your own Lappy. Spanish gas bottles are best obtained at Car Boot Sales in Spain or any other Country  for that matter,  Best wishes have lots of fun, see you on a Beach somewhere Malc.



thanks Malc. lots of good advice on here, and some strange looking vehicles people are driving around in, and i didnt realise so many were at it..lol thanks again. regards. Steve


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## freespirits (Oct 30, 2011)

John H said:


> On our trip last winter we stayed at the following free aires, all of which supplied free electic hook-up:
> 
> Rugles, Nieulle-Pont-Pierre and Ouzouere-sur-Trezee (all in France and the latter with free showers too!)
> Caceres in Spain
> ...


good glad to hear we are welcome over there, annoying we cant even stop by a beach or estuary here without a sign threatening clamping and such like. cant wait to get outta here.lol. thanks for info..


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## freespirits (Oct 30, 2011)

lebesset said:


> well , as a french resident I can assure you that you will be passing through france pretty rapidly in december !!!
> 
> so basically  base your gas bottles on what is required in spain/portugal
> 
> ...



hi and thanks for your lovely reply regarding passing through France rapidly.lol. well the plan is to take 3/4 days to get to portugal coast heading south on the coast all the way along the spanish coast then head north through france slowly to take it all in during warmer weather, thinking to head for uk/scotland for the remainder of the summer. regarding my current system, its a dual calor system with manual changeover, im thinking to change to gaslow as knowledge limited but think a refillable system is the easy way to go and can be removed if we change vans, as my g/f says, once we have run this one ito the ground, again, thanks for advice. Steve


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## Tbear (Oct 30, 2011)

freespirits said:


> hi and thanks, my surrent system is calor 6kg x 2.. the standard uk system, tho as its a conversion on an iveco using a bailey donor im not sure of the year.this van was bought as a completed conversion so very few details as to year of donor.i see on ebay a single bottle system with a reserve of 150 on it, thinking of going for it as guy selling will assist/advise on doing the install. we dont use alot of gas anyway so a single to start of with and the euro adapters should be good to go  and see how it goes.do you agree? assuming the system can be upgraded later if needed. thanks again.  Steve



Hi Steve,

In summer, you may be able to manage on a campingaz cylinder and then get a more sensible size (much cheaper) cylinder and adaptor when you get to your destination. In winter this may not be enough. See Vwalan posts for gas in Spain. I would always try to have a two cylinder system, with one always at least very nearly full, specially in winter. If you have enough room I would have gaz on standby (available most places) and a local 10kg ish sized as the duty cylinder. Ebay is a gamble, sometimes you win, sometimes??? be sensible and careful with gas.

Richard


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## maingate (Oct 30, 2011)

Why not just fit an external BBQ point on your van. Then you can pick up a local bottle and regulator and hook it up to your system and feed the gas in to your van from outside. if you are going to be stationary for any length of time, you can use a bigger bottle (even cheaper).


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## Viktor (Oct 30, 2011)

> Why not just fit an external BBQ point on your van. Then you can pick up a local bottle and regulator and hook it up to your system



Lol! I have one fitted on my campervan....I was aiming to use it to connect up a gas converted Jenny so no smelly or spillable fuel when
travelling with it.......somehow I missed thinking of the reverse.....I'll remember that when I go to the continent.  Thanks.....somehow sometimes
you just overlook the obvious don't you...:lol-053:


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## freespirits (Oct 30, 2011)

maingate said:


> Why not just fit an external BBQ point on your van. Then you can pick up a local bottle and regulator and hook it up to your system and feed the gas in to your van from outside. if you are going to be stationary for any length of time, you can use a bigger bottle (even cheaper).


 wow, what a brill idea. or is it? i already have an external bbq point on the van, is that a safe way to connect a gas bottle and feed in without danger? im interested to learn more, thanks for the input, Steve:rolleyes2:


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2011)

cant see as its any advantage over just putting the local gas bottle in place of the uk one. 
you still need a place to carry it .


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## maingate (Oct 30, 2011)

vwalan said:


> cant see as its any advantage over just putting the local gas bottle in place of the uk one.
> you still need a place to carry it .



You silly Billy Alan. 

Most people take UK bottles with them and only need local ones when they are empty.

Also, some people spend months in Europe over the winter, some of it on long term deals on sites.

If you have a small van then you can find space for a small bottle when on the move. As has been said, bottled gas can be cheaper than Autogas and the Autogas garages are few and far between in Spain.

Hi freespirits,

As long as you have the correct regulator to go with the local bottle, it is perfectly safe to use the BBQ point to feed gas into the motorhome system. All you are doing is feeding the gas into the same common line as the normal bottles do. Make sure that if you fit a BBQ point, you get one equal in diameter to the main line in the van. They are usually 6 mm or 8 mm dia fittings. You will need the 8 mm dia one I would think. You will also need to fit an on/off valve just inside the van from the takeoff point. They are usually self-sealing bayonet type fittings for the flexi pipe from the bottle (and local regulator) but it is best to have an isolation valve.

CAK tanks sell these BBQ fittings and it will involve cutting a hole in the side of the van.


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2011)

just as easy extend the main feed to the bottle and stand it outside. 
i thought the problem was what bottles to take . i say get a foreign one . what ever you do dont go the gaslow route . you could be running around to get it filled. 
not certain most people use sites . certainly not in winter .


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## freespirits (Oct 31, 2011)

thanks for the bbq info, as i said this is already fitted to the van so it may be the route i go, its all a bit confusing with so many contributing an answer, Gaslow was the way i thought about but some say not to so im not sure now. the bbq still presents a problem in as much as having to connect up every time we stop for a cuppa which is frequent!!! although we dont use camp sites and will be wild camping all the time for 1 night in each place i need a semi permanent solution. The house has been cleared now and sat on camp chairs and sleeping on a mattress on the floor until g/f finishes work end nov.. good to go as it were.. cant wait.... see some of you guys somewhere nice.. thanks..


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## freespirits (Oct 31, 2011)

vwalan said:


> just as easy extend the main feed to the bottle and stand it outside.
> i thought the problem was what bottles to take . i say get a foreign one . what ever you do dont go the gaslow route . you could be running around to get it filled.
> not certain most people use sites . certainly not in winter .


Hi Alan, thanks for your input to my questions, lots of replies too... so. im still not totally sure the way to go. you say get a bottle in the country im in with a regulator to match and just connect that to existing system. correct? your def against Gaslow. why? it seems perfect on paper. i would rather listen to experience than sales talk and pretty brochures so your input in invaluable. thanks Alan, are you abroad now. and what is that in your pic that your lugging around. looks like a truck not camper..lol.


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## pochaie (Oct 31, 2011)

freespirits said:


> hi, newbies here about to go fulltime m/h, off to france dec heading south to portugal to slowly overwinter through to spain then back up through enjoying france, any help appreciated on following aspects.  internet regularily and tv a must to check financial movements ie footsie.. gas.. whats the best way to go regarding gas and whether to go for a genny or hookup, we are wildcampers full time and usually manage ok but neither of us has done france portugal or spain. maybe back in uk next summer, maybe not.. any suggestions appreciated. thanks.



Hi, i fitted Gasflow in my camper and it has been brillant it saves on taking different bottles etc. Ok it is expensive to get fitted but i would not be without it. :wave::wave:I am new at all this but last year i decided to do exactly the same as you and loved every minute especilly Portugal ,i leave again in december. there are a lot of places in France and Portugal to fill the the bottles up with GPL. Spain did not seem to be so organized but that was only North and middle.I live most of the time in France nr Anger so i can tell you that most of the aires etc are great with no problems.call in on your way down if you like free parking   he he......


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## lebesset (Oct 31, 2011)

freespirits , 2 x 6Kg bottles ... 

is that the biggest bottles you can get in or could you actually fit ones twice as big?

what regulators do you have , are they on the bottle with a rubber hose to the gas pipe  or screwed to the wall of the gas compartment with a high pressure hose from bottle to regulator ?

depending on your answer to this the recommendation is different !!!

I will presume for a moment that you have the regulator on the bottle system , and use 6Kg bottles 

1] leave the uk with 1 full bottle of propane only ...will be more than enough to get you to spain in december !


2] as soon as you get to spain , go to the nearest repsol garage that sells butane  in 6Kg bottles [ they nearly all do ] , buy a bottle [ €20 deposit on the bottle , you don't need propane in spain , butane is fine [ in an emergency in the mountains you will have propane left in your uk bottle ]
keep the receipt for the deposit 

3] go to the nearest ferreteria or supermarket and buy a clip on regulator for spanish gas bottles [ they all use the same ] , usual spout to push on the rubber hose 

4] install in the empty slot you have left in your gas locker and connect , your uk bottle is now your emergency reserve 

5] you can swop this repsol butane bottle at virtually any repsol filling station in spain or portugal 

6] when the time comes  in the spring to go back to france , run this bottle out , go to a repsol garage that sells gas , hand the empty back in with the receipt and get your money back 

7] cross the frontier into france , go to the nearest Intermarche supermarket / filling station and buy a 9Kg Energas propane / 10Kgbutane bottle [ your choice ] same size as you uk 6 Kg bottle ; buy a regulator [ detendeur ]that screws on to this , and install ....modern regulators are 30Mb for both propane and butane ....if you have or can find a regulator for the old blue calor 4.5 Kg uk bottles [ probably 27Mb ] before you leave home that will do just fine ; I just got an extra Energas bottle and they charged me €1 for the bottle ; if you look at the Energas website you will find a list of points of sale , I think there are over a thousand in france , they are everywhere

so for an outlay of about €20 max you can have easy availability of gas wherever you go in spain/portugal/france


btw , wouldn't go to portugal in december , weather is far superior in SE spain in december/january , so go around the other way


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## vwalan (Oct 31, 2011)

hi,   i think gaslow is far too expensive. you can fill normal bottles for a very small outlay. i have had an adaptor for doing it for about 40yrs. there are nice neat tidy adaptors available on ebay, . 
yes thats my mini artic camper. it goes all over the plce . mountains ,desert ,through rivers . yoyu name it i take it. 20ft of living space and a 7 seater unit up front . length is less than most cars towing a 10ft caravan. at 10mtr. 3mtr high. 7ft6ins wide. had it 11yrs now. 
although i can fill bottles leave uk with a full one of uk gas. on arrival in spain exchange my spanish bottle . you would need to get one. if you ask in a fereteria or hardwhare shop in spain they can sell you a straight throughadaptor that can either fit a pigtail or one to take an old uk .french style reg.if you google auto gas uk ,they carry lots of adaptors . may pay to speak to them. 
if i,m going to morocco i carry a spanish and a moroccan bottle , make sure i exchange the spanish before leaving spain. use the maroc and exchange it when empty .leave maroic with a full bottle and change back to spanish . use the other as a reserve in each country . i,m sure you get the idea. arrive back in uk with both bottles just about full ready fo next year.
like i say if you get along pigtail or a long piece of high pressure gas hose just extend the hose to allow the bottle stood outside. not good for wild camping but ok on sites (prison camps). 
i really cant see how some say they save the cost of gaslow in 18months . abroad bottles are very often cheaper , even here you would have to use alot of gas to recoup that sort of money. i would say its impossible. 
30 quid for ebay adaptor easily recouped . but that brings in another discusion.


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## freespirits (Oct 31, 2011)

lebesset said:


> freespirits , 2 x 6Kg bottles ...
> 
> is that the biggest bottles you can get in or could you actually fit ones twice as big?
> 
> ...


 i like you.... you talk sence that i understand, sounds a good way to do it and sounds simple, also like the idea of doing Spain first.. thats a good one, thanks.. steveh1982@hotmail  please get in touch. thanks. Steve


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## freespirits (Oct 31, 2011)

pochaie said:


> Hi, i fitted Gasflow in my camper and it has been brillant it saves on taking different bottles etc. Ok it is expensive to get fitted but i would not be without it. :wave::wave:I am new at all this but last year i decided to do exactly the same as you and loved every minute especilly Portugal ,i leave again in december. there are a lot of places in France and Portugal to fill the the bottles up with GPL. Spain did not seem to be so organized but that was only North and middle.I live most of the time in France nr Anger so i can tell you that most of the aires etc are great with no problems.call in on your way down if you like free parking   he he......



only do free parking.lol even in uk, but i do hate the knobheads over here who post clamping and fines labels everywhere, its my couintry and my beach.. go away.. and another thing.. castles over here now ripping us off to see our heritage, i cant wait to get away from it all..  might check Anger out on the way thru, im full of it at the moment with this country..lol. thanks..


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## pochaie (Oct 31, 2011)

freespirits said:


> only do free parking.lol even in uk, but i do hate the knobheads over here who post clamping and fines labels everywhere, its my couintry and my beach.. go away.. and another thing.. castles over here now ripping us off to see our heritage, i cant wait to get away from it all..  might check Anger out on the way thru, im full of it at the moment with this country..lol. thanks..



During my trip last december , i travelled for 12 week's thru France,Spain and Portugal spending a total of ZERO euro's on overnight stop overs in some fantastic places with no probs. ps, it is also easy to stay off the motorways...total paid out for tolls 2 euro's. Really looking forward to the next trip and to meet up with people i met last year....Have a great time


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## Byronic (Oct 31, 2011)

freespirits said:


> only do free parking.lol even in uk, but i do hate the knobheads over here who post clamping and fines labels everywhere, its my couintry and my beach.. go away.. and another thing.. castles over here now ripping us off to see our heritage, i cant wait to get away from it all..  might check Anger out on the way thru, im full of it at the moment with this country..lol. thanks..




That's the spirit.... my sentiments also. 

Hundreds of posts on this forum, and others, from responsible Motorhomers expressing near paranoid fear of spending a couple of overnights' free parking (camping?) in their own country! Worrying if a sign is legal, or is it not, or will the sight of a fluorescent jacket give them a heart attack, o dear me perhaps the local landowner will give a disapproving scowl as he walks by. 

Never mind castles, how about St Pauls +£14 even if you're in the club, ie a Christian! 
I've a tent you can have, you can check out your Anger on our behalves, I don't think they charge outside St Ps.


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## Haaamster (Oct 31, 2011)

You can get calor gas bottled in Belgium at a company called Praktigas,I have had mine refilled more than once.


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## freespirits (Nov 1, 2011)

Byronic said:


> That's the spirit.... my sentiments also.
> 
> Hundreds of posts on this forum, and others, from responsible Motorhomers expressing near paranoid fear of spending a couple of overnights' free parking (camping?) in their own country! Worrying if a sign is legal, or is it not, or will the sight of a fluorescent jacket give them a heart attack, o dear me perhaps the local landowner will give a disapproving scowl as he walks by.
> 
> ...


aha, no im not in the club as it were, also you can keep your tent thanks.. weve wild camped all summer and only stayed on a campsite 1 night to meet family, who were in a caravan, not for me thanks, i love wilding and sourcing my needs, we did a few week long trips during the summer to iron out things in the van and adapt others, all going well and cant wait. we have now decided to go sooner too, 28th nov will see us on the ferry heading for Barcelona, any routes suggested greatly appreciated. love this site.. thanks guys/girls...  Steve n Sue.. freespirits.....:wave:


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## Byronic (Nov 1, 2011)

freespirits said:


> aha, no im not in the club as it were, also you can keep your tent thanks.. weve wild camped all summer and only stayed on a campsite 1 night to meet family, who were in a caravan, not for me thanks, i love wilding and sourcing my needs, we did a few week long trips during the summer to iron out things in the van and adapt others, all going well and cant wait. we have now decided to go sooner too, 28th nov will see us on the ferry heading for Barcelona, any routes suggested greatly appreciated. love this site.. thanks guys/girls...  Steve n Sue.. freespirits.....:wave:




You may know from personal experience, or from this site, that wildcamping has become more problematical over the years in France Spain and Portugal and Spain, especially the obvious areas. A great deal of Spain is owned by a landed gentry, the black and white small roadside signs "Privado de Caza".....(Private Hunting Ground) seen everywhere are a testament to that. So not necessarily that much different to here.
Would be very interested to know where that ferry to Barcelona leaves from!! And don't forget to download  i-campingcar.fr  for the French Aires Listings.


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## lebesset (Nov 1, 2011)

freespirit , sounds like I guessed right about you having the regulator on the bottle system !

are you taking a laptop computer ? if you are , go here

CAMPINGCAR-INFOS

as you can see , you can look for free any time , but for a few euro's you can download this on to your laptop or a usb stick [ or buy on a usb stick ready loaded ]
this guy has done a fantastic job and his data base is in a class of it's own ...you will find it invaluable

here is the energaz site for when you come back to france 


énergaz les nouvelles bouteilles butane & propane

as you can see there are points of sale everywhere ...although it says the price for the bottle is €5 I have always  been charged €1 for some reason

with regard to a route across france in december , the weather is , and always has been , unpredictable ; in southern france we have had temperatures as high as 25C in november ...but as low as -17C !!!! so the important thing is to choose a route where you can get through if the weather turns against you [ hence leaving the uk with propane rather than butane ] 

what tends to happen in france is that the valley routes  get blocked if there is snow , but the west coast and the massif central route normally keep open ; personally I don't like going down the west coast as when you cut across to get to the med the route is not the best [ I don't pay for motorways ] ; in any case it is [ I think ] a long way round and if you are coming north from portugal in the spring you will be using that route anyway 
my preference is [ presuming you are coming from calais/boulougne/dunkirk /le havre  ] is rouen [ motorway from abbeville to rouen is free ], then chartres , orleans , bourges/ clermont ferrand and south to the med on the A75 [ which is free except for the millau viaduct which is one of the great sights of the world ...google it !] ; I've been over it once , but usually go through the town and stop at the aire ; the A75 is fairly new but has never been closed as they have more machinery than you can shake a stick at [ funded by the EU !]

anyway ...enjoy


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## freespirits (Nov 1, 2011)

lebesset said:


> freespirit , sounds like I guessed right about you having the regulator on the bottle system !
> 
> are you taking a laptop computer ? if you are , go here
> 
> ...


thank you lebesset for all your helpful info, found some gas regulators in the back of the shed.mmm good oh... again thanks.. Steve


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## freespirits (Nov 1, 2011)

n brown said:


> take 2 calor bottles,when first is empty,dump it by a bin and find a local bottle and regulator,keeping the other calor for back up. 2 batteries and a panel are good but worth having a small genny for times you may need it.these are big spaces and i rarely found myself near enough to anyone to worry about the noise.


dump it by a bin?? tut tut...


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## freespirits (Nov 1, 2011)

Byronic said:


> You may know from personal experience, or from this site, that wildcamping has become more problematical over the years in France Spain and Portugal and Spain, especially the obvious areas. A great deal of Spain is owned by a landed gentry, the black and white small roadside signs "Privado de Caza".....(Private Hunting Ground) seen everywhere are a testament to that. So not necessarily that much different to here.
> Would be very interested to know where that ferry to Barcelona leaves from!! And don't forget to download  i-campingcar.fr  for the French Aires Listings.



ha, driving across France to Spain... and that campingcar site is in French,, lol cant understand it, going to get the book off Amazon..cheers..


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## Byronic (Nov 1, 2011)

The icampingcar guide is generally in pictorial form, thought it was encouragement to learn a little French!!


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## vwalan (Nov 1, 2011)

hi ,byronics idea is a good one. i use the french book camping car le monde version. its good to learn another language.french /spanish /arabic /german. cant expect the world to speak english. saves a fortune if you buy them in france. geta french dictionary as well. you know it makes sense.


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## Byronic (Nov 1, 2011)

As you would know Alan, and I realise it's off topic but it's worth stating that a few words of Arabic from a European is much more appreciated in Morocco than would say be a few words of French spoken in France. 
As most of us know the French expect everyone to speak their language (as do the English and the Spanish of course)a colonial legacy.


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## vwalan (Nov 1, 2011)

byronic tu parle francais. 
habla espaniol
anta tikahlum arabia. 
sprecken deutche
nip den cows kernewek
bit i cant understand is campsite . never learnt that bit. 
hope you have fun this winter , bob turned up today. 
spain could be quiet with out me . ha ha .


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## Byronic (Nov 1, 2011)

Considering the amount of time I've spent in Maroc and Dubai, my Arabic is rudimentary, but every little helps.
And Llanito is only 70% Spanish..... que lastima. 
Why not take the Bongo if you can only get away for a shortish time?


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## vwalan (Nov 1, 2011)

decided iwould have to come back end of january .not a good time to be travelling north and cold when i get home. might not even be nice through spain. plus have to use portsmouth . so winter here . be a lovely change ,i hope. make me aphreciate next winter away anyway.


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## freespirits (Nov 2, 2011)

Byronic said:


> The icampingcar guide is generally in pictorial form, thought it was encouragement to learn a little French!!


we have dictionary and phrase books so intend to learn a bit everywhere, love to speak a foreign language, but dont forget, the business world revolves in the english language. lol. money talks hehehhee


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## freespirits (Nov 2, 2011)

vwalan said:


> hi ,byronics idea is a good one. i use the french book camping car le monde version. its good to learn another language.french /spanish /arabic /german. cant expect the world to speak english. saves a fortune if you buy them in france. geta french dictionary as well. you know it makes sense.



yepp, your right it does make sence.. anyway g/f speaks quite well so we shall be ok.. now another thing, have you or anyone else heard about being gassed whilst asleep and robbed? someone told me a friend had been gassed etc, is this right or fantasy?thanks guys.... were coming!!!!!!!!:lol-053:


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## freespirits (Nov 2, 2011)

vwalan said:


> decided iwould have to come back end of january .not a good time to be travelling north and cold when i get home. might not even be nice through spain. plus have to use portsmouth . so winter here . be a lovely change ,i hope. make me aphreciate next winter away anyway.



hey cant wait to catch sight of your vehicle mate lol. looks fab...


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2011)

hi, unfortunately not this year. itsbeen around along time now 11yrs. was pulled by a vw lt50 before the mitsubishi. 
as for gassing . lets just leave that myth alone better talking filling gas bottles or using a frames . or drinking water. or toilets exploding thats a good one. 
i,m sure weshall meet one day. cant remember the last winter i haventmet byronic . seems like ages ago. like wise many on here ,you know who you are. quite a nice travelling family out there. you can be in the middle of nowhere and someone from here turns up garranteed.have lots fun all of you think of me here in lovely uk.


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## Byronic (Nov 2, 2011)

freespirits said:


> yepp, your right it does make sence.. anyway g/f speaks quite well so we shall be ok.. now another thing, have you or anyone else heard about being gassed whilst asleep and robbed? someone told me a friend had been gassed etc, is this right or fantasy?thanks guys.... were coming!!!!!!!!:lol-053:



Gassing...... I'm taking the risk that you didn't ask this as a wind up,' no pun intended! Nevertheless it seems to be quite a worry issue to some.

This subject has been discussed on other forums ad nauseum. From what I can gather there are no substantiated first hand experience of this. Plenty of anecdotal tales, as told to the Daily Mail eg.
Even 5th columnist types attempting to put people off wildcamping.

What I can say is that I did read what looked like an authentic report from a professional anaesthetist, who stated that to gass someone in a M/home was nigh on impossible, and to do it so as not to kill anyone took a high level of expertise, not an attribute likely to be possessed by many highwaymen. No reports of deaths so you can extrapolate your own conclusions.

I suppose you are aware that the motorways around Barcelona are arguably the most risky in Western Europe as regards M/homer robberies. Albeit by more conventional methods, so thats all right then!!


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## Byronic (Nov 2, 2011)

vwalan said:


> as for gassing . lets just leave that myth alone better talking filling gas bottles or using a frames . or drinking water. or toilets exploding thats a good one.
> i




No Alan you're only part right. I've known quite a few people with dangerous gassing equipment usually sourced from a strong curry and a beer, sometimes resulting in an exploding toilet cassette.


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2011)

you may be correct. best to stay away from the coast in spain much safer inland. or in portugal .never hear of gassing there.


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## lebesset (Nov 2, 2011)

freespirits , I first heard the gassing story over 20 years ago , never known of a case .....I suspect that most people are making use of the cheaper alcohol ; I related the story to an anaesthatist  of my acquaintance who presumed that this was because they found dead bodies ; when I told him there hadn't been any he just laughed and said that unfortunately even under hospital conditions people die 

glad you found some regulators in the shed ...presuming that one of these fits the 4.5Kg calor butane dumpy [ suggest you check ] you have just saved a few euro's ! but do check the neoprene washer is in good nick and replace if necessary ...might also be a good time to check the soft rubber hose between the regulator and the copper pipe ...they don't last for ever !


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## freespirits (Nov 2, 2011)

lebesset said:


> freespirits , I first heard the gassing story over 20 years ago , never known of a case .....I suspect that most people are making use of the cheaper alcohol ; I related the story to an anaesthatist  of my acquaintance who presumed that this was because they found dead bodies ; when I told him there hadn't been any he just laughed and said that unfortunately even under hospital conditions people die
> 
> glad you found some regulators in the shed ...presuming that one of these fits the 4.5Kg calor butane dumpy [ suggest you check ] you have just saved a few euro's ! but do check the neoprene washer is in good nick and replace if necessary ...might also be a good time to check the soft rubber hose between the regulator and the copper pipe ...they don't last for ever !



ha, thought as much regarding the gassing, anyway, yes the reg does fit the 4.5 kg dumpy, and ive connected it and tested for leaks etc, all good, changing back to calor tomorrow to empty that, get a full one but not connect it, its now my reserve, im going to use whats in the dumpy and when thats empty get a Spanish one which i now assume will fit as itll have the same type of connection as my dumpy. yes ? if so happy days, its got new hose to copper and ill check washer tomorrow too, thanks for your invaluable help. Steve


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2011)

hi you will need the spanish clip on to uk dumpy adapter . easy aquired in the fereteria. but do make sure its a straight through. 
sounds more complicated than it reall y is all this gas malarky.


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## lebesset (Nov 2, 2011)

no < as alan says spanish bottles have a clip on regulator so you will have to buy one in the feretteria or supermarket { or the garage ?} and push the rubber hose on to that 

they also sell a straight through adaptor on to which you screw your dumpy regulator < that@s what i use < but they are much more difficult to find < you will probably have to find the repsol gas agent office to get one of those as most feretterias don@t sell them < mind you you could always take in your dumpy regulator to see if one is available < they are called adaptadors    not hard to translate    !


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2011)

hi, i bought one in leroymerlin a hardwhare supermarketthis year. i have also had them from fereteria,s . cost abot 8-11 euro. i thought its worth having a spare . mind BES can also supply them here in uk i believe.


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## freespirits (Nov 3, 2011)

lebesset said:


> no < as alan says spanish bottles have a clip on regulator so you will have to buy one in the feretteria or supermarket { or the garage ?} and push the rubber hose on to that
> 
> they also sell a straight through adaptor on to which you screw your dumpy regulator < that@s what i use < but they are much more difficult to find < you will probably have to find the repsol gas agent office to get one of those as most feretterias don@t sell them < mind you you could always take in your dumpy regulator to see if one is available < they are called adaptadors    not hard to translate    !



As alan says all this gas malarky isnt as complicated as it sounds, i also have a clip on reg from an old gas fire that took the big blue bottles, im also going to get one of those adapters they sell on ebay, 27 quid i think, these are used to fill the red bottles, im trying to cover all the bases, lol. ill get by whatever, im quite able to sort things one way or another. thanks everyone for the input.im off to read some threads as theres lots of useful info on here.


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## freespirits (Nov 11, 2011)

pochaie said:


> Hi, i fitted Gasflow in my camper and it has been brillant it saves on taking different bottles etc. Ok it is expensive to get fitted but i would not be without it. :wave::wave:I am new at all this but last year i decided to do exactly the same as you and loved every minute especilly Portugal ,i leave again in december. there are a lot of places in France and Portugal to fill the the bottles up with GPL. Spain did not seem to be so organized but that was only North and middle.I live most of the time in France nr Anger so i can tell you that most of the aires etc are great with no problems.call in on your way down if you like free parking   he he......


might just do that... met a French guy over here, also invited us to his place to park up for as long as we like, free. top man...


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## northernspirit2001 (Nov 14, 2011)

*What??!*



n brown said:


> take 2 calor bottles,when first is empty,dump it by a bin and find a local bottle and regulator,keeping the other calor for back up. 2 batteries and a panel are good but worth having a small genny for times you may need it.these are big spaces and i rarely found myself near enough to anyone to worry about the noise.



Dump an LPG bottle by a bin! Thats wrong for so many reasons!

I have a genny but keep it at home for power cuts, the motorhome alternator works fine for emergency top up of leisure batteries


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## runnach (Nov 14, 2011)

freespirits said:


> As alan says all this gas malarky isnt as complicated as it sounds, i also have a clip on reg from an old gas fire that took the big blue bottles, im also going to get one of those adapters they sell on ebay, 27 quid i think, these are used to fill the red bottles, im trying to cover all the bases, lol. ill get by whatever, im quite able to sort things one way or another. thanks everyone for the input.im off to read some threads as theres lots of useful info on here.



They say idiots are easily parted with their money , but in your case it seems  life ?

Big Blues and reds pretty colours I am sure. 

" I think and useful info " is not exacty inspiring in terms of your competence.

I am off to read threads lots of useful info on here .....................well  that has really inspired me.

Sorry mate but this degree of arrogance will bring about even more restrictive legislation as to what you can and cant do.


Buy as many adaptors off fleabay at  
27 euros a throw you want, Your post clearly shows at best an ineptitude to use them.

Dont play with what you dont understand implicitely, stick to social work teaching etc.....whatever you do ,bu tclearly not gas 

Channa


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