# Portugal GNR Banging on camper door!



## Braveheart (Sep 24, 2017)

Yesterday we were parked up for the night at what is known on the POI as CR Porto Das Barcas.
The GNR told us it was illegal to park there overnight due to it being a national park. 
In this case Parque Natural do sudoeste Alentejano e Costa Vicentina.

 After the initial loud bang on the door that startled us, I have to say that the two officers were very friendly and polite, but did ask for my passport and vehicle documents. 
(Their English was much better than my Portuguese and
I explained that I had had a few beers.)

My details were recorded on a form called 
"auto de noticia por contra-ordenacao"
Google translation

"self of news by against-ordination"

The bit filled in with details reads (with x's where my details are.)

No dia, hora e local acima mencionado  no decorrer de um servico de Patrulhamento ao litoral verifcamos que a viatura modelo xxxxxx matricula xxxxxxx caravana propriedade de Acima Neweionado estacionda no local acima referido, violanda as disposicoes acima citadas, pela pratica de caravanismo O local supra incidcado situa-se na area do pargue do sudoeste alentejano e da Costa vicentina. que a uma area protegida de intresse national criada pelo Dec Reg No25/95

Google translation
in the day, time and place aforementioned in the course of a service of patrol to the coast verifcamos that the vehicle model xxxx registration xxxxxxx caravan property of above neweionado estacionda onsite above said, violanda the provisions above cited, by the practice of caravanismo the place super incidcado lies-if in the area of the pargue of the southwest alentejano and of the coast vicentina. that the a area protected of intresse national created by the Dec Reg No25/95

Over leaf it continues
21septembro infringrindo o contemplado na resolucaod de conselho ministros de 04 de fev. sendo o montante da coima se praticada por pessoas singulares e em caso de negligencia fixda de 200€ a 1000€ como previsto no disposto no artigo 22 n. °. 2 alinea a) da lei n. de 29 ago. com alteracoes introduzidas pela lei 89/2009 de 31 ago

Google translation 
September 21 violating the contemplated in the resolution of council ministers of February 4. the amount of the fine being imposed by natural persons and in case of negligence fixed from € 200 to € 1000 as provided for in Article 22 n. °. 2 (a) of Act No. of 29 Aug. with amendments introduced by law 89/2009 of August 31

And finally in a box titled
ENCERRAMENTO DO AUTO

perante o exposto fol a presente auto de noticia elaborado em quadriruplicado sendo o origional entregue no parque natural do sudoeste alentejano e costa vicentina para efeito da lei , o duplicado entregue ao infractor, o triplicadi ao comandante do destcamento de costeiro de sines para conhecimento e o quadruplicado para arquivo subdestacmento. e. mao. havendo mais nada a tratar, se encerra destra forma o presente Auto, que depois de lido e achado conforme vai ser assinado

Google translation 
CLOSURE OF THE SELF
"in view of the foregoing, the present report was drawn up in a quad-duplicate, the original being delivered in the natural park of the southwest of the Alentejo and the Vincentian coast for the purpose of law, the duplicate delivered to the offender, the triplicadi to the commander of the coastal quadrmupled to file subdivision. and. hand. there being nothing else to deal with, if the present Auto is closed in this way, that after reading and finding it will be signed"

And then just above the signatures. I had to sign 

para constarr se lavrou o present auto, que lido e achado conforme, vai ser devidamente assinado

Google translation 
for constarr if filed the present self, that read and found according to, will go be properly signed.


They mentioned 20days, but I said that I would be gone in the morning.

The mentioned the 20days again, later, but I wasn't sure what they meant.

Has anyone else experienced this or shed any light on it?

I am hoping that I don't end up with a fine. We shall see!


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## Canalsman (Sep 24, 2017)

That's an unfortunate experience, and it's a shame that you don't know if you are going to be fined or not ...

Please update this with future developments.


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## witzend (Sep 24, 2017)

I saw a man who had been issued something similar and it was a fine and the 20 days was a time to pay or it increased I,d find a english speaking local to inform you


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## Trish1997 (Sep 24, 2017)

I don't read Portuguese either but it sound as if you have a fine of €200 to be paid within 20 days or increased to €1000.
As mentioned it would be worth you getting  it translated properly or face a fine of a €1000 if not paid  quickly..


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## kenspain (Sep 24, 2017)

Braveheart said:


> Yesterday we were parked up for the night at what is known on the POI as CR Porto Das Barcas.
> The GNR told us it was illegal to park there overnight due to it being a national park.
> In this case Parque Natural do sudoeste Alentejano e Costa Vicentina.
> 
> ...


     It looks like the same as they do here if they did not give you a form to pay a sum in a bank then its just a warning what the fine could be. But to make sure find a local police and ask them


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## Morphology (Sep 24, 2017)

Even €200 feels a rather steep fine if there was no warning that overnight stays are not permitted.

Were there any signs? On Google Streetview there seems to be some sort of sign at the northern end of the parking area, but it's not possible to read what it says, and the streetview images were taken in 2009.

It's included (and highly rated) in Camper Contact but, interestingly, it's not on Campincar-infos, so I wonder whether they have deleted it as otherwise it's exactly the sort of location I would expect them to list.

It looks fabulous, and it's just the sort of place I would head for, so should it be removed from the POIs?


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## izwozral (Sep 24, 2017)

Pauljenny who is a member lives in Portugal and is fluent in Portuguese. if he is stuck on anything he may possibly show it to a Portuguese friend/local who can help with the translation?

Could be worth asking him via private message.


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## runnach (Sep 24, 2017)

izwozral said:


> Pauljenny who is a member lives in Portugal and is fluent in Portuguese. if he is stuck on anything he may possibly show it to a Portuguese friend/local who can help with the translation?
> 
> Could be worth asking him via private message.


 He needs no excuse to integrate with his neighbours, less excuse for an impromptu meal and a few drinks ...who blames him !!:bow:

Channa


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## Braveheart (Sep 24, 2017)

Morphology said:


> Even €200 feels a rather steep fine if there was no warning that overnight stays are not permitted.
> 
> Were there any signs? On Google Streetview there seems to be some sort of sign at the northern end of the parking area, but it's not possible to read what it says, and the streetview images were taken in 2009.
> 
> ...



There was no signs prohibiting overnight parking.
What is also not clear is that a large area of the west coast is a national park. That could possibly mean that camping is not allowed in more than this poi!


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## Pauljenny (Sep 24, 2017)

Braveheart said:


> There was no signs prohibiting overnight parking.
> What is also not clear is that a large area of the west coast is a national park. That could possibly mean that camping is not allowed in more than this poi!



All part of the adventure.

You'll sort this out and boast about it,in later years.

I've been banging on about how the attitude to coastal wildcamping has been changed,as more and more vans and increasing numbers of ' normal ', tourists,  pour into the Western Algarve,each year. Every one of them wants that perfect, unspoiled sea view.

We're all barrack room lawyers.. The Google translation is almost as obscure as the Portuguese... Perhaps deliberately?
I think it's  probably a warning, having recorded your details.. It could be more serious, if you're daft enough to be caught doing it again?
Best follow Graham's advice.. Talk to the Tourist info first.
Good luck and keep us posted.


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## n brown (Sep 24, 2017)

my Portuguese isn't great, but the first part is a notification that you have contravened an ordinance, broken a regulation. the rest seems to be warning you of dire consequences if they catch you doing it again. well worth further clarification. at least they didn't point their guns at you like they used to in the good old days !


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## n brown (Sep 24, 2017)

asked my daughter,who lives there, to have a look, she says it's a bit confusing because of the googletranslate, but if you can photo the document the cops gave you, she and my grandson will read it, they're both fluent
if you want to do that, today would be good as g/son starts uni tomorrow in the north


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## Pauljenny (Sep 24, 2017)

Looks like Nigel Brown is your go to guy... Trust his grandson....... unless it involves circular saw..!


    We're just back from a 2½ hour visit to the local gipsy market.
    Chicken piri piri, pork ribs, olives, bread red wine,water. ...7€ all in.
    While we were there, we met friends,who forced presunto ham and drinks down us.
    Shared the table with a Dutch couple, followed by a French Portuguese couple.
    Met our neighbours,including the mayor...I hate this place.

They are putting in a proper aire, central to all ameneties..
See you at the bakery...its a must do.

Why the Hell should we want to go to the  seaside ,on a hot crowded Sunday?


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## Val54 (Sep 24, 2017)

Braveheart said:


> There was no signs prohibiting overnight parking.
> What is also not clear is that a large area of the west coast is a national park. That could possibly mean that camping is not allowed in more than this poi!



As far as I know, overnighting in any sort of vehicle or tent is generally prohibited in all of Portugal's protected areas. Last time we were there, we were looking for info on the national park in a tourist office and the guy made it clear that we shouldn't overnight. It all depends on time of year and how active the local GNR are, but the fines are large if caught, and they are understandably concerned about fire risks.


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## Canalsman (Sep 24, 2017)

Braveheart said:


> There was no signs prohibiting overnight parking.
> What is also not clear is that a large area of the west coast is a national park. That could possibly mean that camping is not allowed in more than this poi!



This is my concern. As posted earlier please update ...


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## witzend (Sep 24, 2017)

Braveheart said:


> There was no signs prohibiting overnight parking.
> What is also not clear is that a large area of the west coast is a national park. That could possibly mean that camping is not allowed in more than this poi!



2 yrs ago we where moved on from Borderia The policeman told us that camping wasn't allowed from Cap San Vincent to Aljezur as it was a National Park several surfers where coming back to Sagress every night last year for the same reason although when we arrived last year Borderia was full of vans we didn't stay and later when we checked again there where none ?
Makes you wonder whether to go to Portugal after reading their news reports as we've obviously worn out our welcome


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## Pauljenny (Sep 24, 2017)

witzend said:


> 2 yrs ago we where moved on from Borderia The policeman told us that camping wasn't allowed from Cap San Vincent to Aljezur as it was a National Park several surfers where coming back to Sagress every night last year for the same reason although when we arrived last year Borderia was full of vans we didn't stay and later when we checked again there where none ?
> Makes you wonder whether to go to Portugal after reading their news reports as we've obviously worn out our welcome



Only on the crowded coastal areas.
In 18 years, I've never heard of anyone having trouble inland... Quite the opposite.
Do come, don't do the bleeding obvious.


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## witzend (Sep 24, 2017)

Pauljenny said:


> Only on the crowded coastal areas.
> In 18 years, I've never heard of anyone having trouble inland....


We where among a group at chicken maries 2 yrs ago who where awoken at 10pm with banging on the door by police and offered a choice of move to the campsite or a 300€ fine , In the confusion and arguing that followed we managed to miss the campsite turning. Last year when we looked in no one was there.


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## n brown (Sep 24, 2017)

i'm so grateful that we went to Portugal when we did, not long after their revolution.the place was still very 3rd world and the main enemy wasn't the GNR, the cops, it was the Alfandega, the customs guys, they hated us being on the beaches as they were worried about cigarette boats, fast speedboats, coming over with hash from Maroc.
but i had no worries about leaving wife and 3 kids on Castello, Evaristo or Gale beach while i went off doing villa maintenance 2 or 3 days a week, we stayed on some beaches for 3-4 months wit,hout a prob.nearly every camper was a self build, from mainly Germany,France UK and Holland
now most vans are smart coachbuilds, the roads are excellent, the country is in the EU, and the GNR want their share of the tourist euro.best bet now is enjoy a day at the coast, and find a village inland 10-20k, where you become familiar and use the local shops and bar. it's still a great place and great people


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## Deleted member 967 (Sep 25, 2017)

Morphology said:


> Even €200 feels a rather steep fine if there was no warning that overnight stays are not permitted.
> 
> Were there any signs? On Google Streetview there seems to be some sort of sign at the northern end of the parking area, but it's not possible to read what it says, and the streetview images were taken in 2009.
> 
> ...



It is against the Law in Spain and Portugal to *Park* overnight in a National Park except in a village or town. There are signs on the roads as you enter the restricted areas.  The same applies to the costal margin in Spain (ley de Costa).  It is also against UK National Park regulations to overnight except in an authorised place.   There is no need for signs all over the place.  The law is the law.  We should make ourselves aware of the regulations while travelling.  We did 6 years of full time touring and became aware of such restrictions.


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## Deleted member 967 (Sep 25, 2017)

POI Admin said:


> This is my concern. As posted earlier please update ...



National Parks are marked on maps.  My SatNav also has them marked in as a shaded area overlay.   There is no excuse for ignorance of the law.


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## runnach (Sep 25, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> Just as lightning a fire or even a BBQ is also illegal in many areas of Spain at certain times of the year, unless you have the mayor with you as I did then all laws cease to exist :raofl:
> In the village I lived in the few British that were around said we wouldn't get a telephone as they had been waiting for  18 months,3 days later I had a phone just asked the mayor !



A friend of mine building a house and workshop at Tremolat in France, Exactly the same not what you knew but who you knew. He employs a bit of local labour not on a big scale, alterations to building plans ( access to property) altered in a phone call and visit all done and dusted by lunch and a beer in the bar.

Sometimes it had to be seen to be believed.

Channa


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## Braveheart (Apr 9, 2018)

After speaking to other Portuguese people, none of them seemed to be sure if I had received a warning or a fine.
To date, I have received no further correspondence. So, I think it fair to assume that it was a warning. My cards are marked though :ninja:


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## Canalsman (Apr 9, 2018)

Recently there was a thread posted that referred to a news item in a Portuguese publication. The article included a reference to existing controls on parking.

This highlighted a problem with the issuing of fines to foreign vehicles. A warning has to be issued in the first instance and a fine can be imposed for a repeat offence. As I read it there's no mechanism to link the warning to a non-Portuguese vehicle.


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## Canalsman (Apr 9, 2018)

This is the article:

Motorhome divide | Portugal Resident

My memory wasn't quite correct. It seems it's a timing issue.


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## n brown (Apr 9, 2018)

now i'm certainly not suggesting any particular advice , just something to keep in mind perhaps . i was once fined 600 euros ,on a roadside stop, on a technicality. after a a bit of a row and chat i haggled it down to 30 euros. my theory is that cops can be seen in these circumstances as civil servants , going through the motions and looking for an easy life . they don't like rows where they can't shoot you. just a thought !


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