# French Speeding fine increased & Royal Mail!



## REC (May 7, 2020)

Just got back to UK and found we have a speeding fine dated 10/1 but, as away, have only just got it. It has been increased from 45 euros to 180 euros as not paid in time!
my question is, can I argue it as not at home address to get the fine? Can prove this with tunnel tickets.

My other gripe is that b***y Royal Mail were paid to redirect my post and didnt, except for one bundle in April covering four weeks mail. Have I a case to claim it back from them since I would have been told of the fine if they had done as contracted? Have photos of the piles of mail sitting on my mat when we got back this evening! Also had car tax lapse, and an insurance not renewed. In the pile of mail was also several letters for my neighbour, including their bank cards!


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## witzend (May 7, 2020)

RM mail forwarding is expensive did you pay for more than the 4 wks. Good job your tax ran out as a taxed car without insurance could have got you another fine. Let us know how you get on appealing the French ticket


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## REC (May 7, 2020)

witzend said:


> RM mail forwarding is expensive did you pay for more than the 4 wks. Good job your tax ran out as a taxed car without insurance could have got you another fine. Let us know how you get on appealing the French ticket


Yes paid for four months! Feel the royal mail should pay the excess fine. Can't see I have grounds for appeal to French as we obviously were 5km/hr over limit! ( well, Dave was!) And can't see anywhere I can appeal on the grounds that we were still out of country.
Completely avoidable if RM had done as contracted.


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## antiquesam (May 8, 2020)

I'm sure Royal Mail have a clause exonerating them from any liability. They do for everything else.


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## Okta (May 8, 2020)

I don’t think 4 months is one of the redirection options offered, so perhaps you should check exactly what dates you paid for before taking this up with them.


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## Okta (May 8, 2020)

If you were having your mail redirected outside the UK the Royal Mail are not allowed to forward signed for, tracked and special guaranteed delivery items.


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## izwozral (May 8, 2020)

Royal Mail keep tabs on how many claims an individual makes and limits claims made,  despite any guarantees given when sent Recorded or Special Delivery.

In a 3 year period I sent over 3x thousand items sold on Ebay, anything £20 - £50 was sent Recorded Delivery, anything over that was sent Special Delivery. 
I made four claims for lost Recorded items in that 3 year period, I then made a claim for a lost Special Delivery, they twice refused to honour the guarantee, even after threatening small claims court.
It was only when I told them that I was an ex postie at South Manchester PSO for five years that they honoured the guarantee. Great that they look after their own but very unfair to the public at large.


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## wildebus (May 8, 2020)

I think I have made two claims for Special Delivery items.  Both paid without any problem once the tracking codes provided.


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## wildebus (May 8, 2020)

witzend said:


> RM mail forwarding is expensive did you pay for more than the 4 wks. Good job your tax ran out as a taxed car without insurance could have got you another fine. Let us know how you get on appealing the French ticket


An untaxed car that hasn't been officially SORNed is the same as a taxed car ref insurance requirements.


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## witzend (May 8, 2020)

wildebus said:


> An untaxed car that hasn't been officially SORNed is the same as a taxed car ref insurance requirements.


Read what I said before replying keeping a taxed car without insurance has been a offence since 2011


> Good job your tax ran out as a taxed car without insurance could have got you another fine


.


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## wildebus (May 8, 2020)

witzend said:


> Read what I said before replying keeping a taxed car without insurance has been a offence since 2011
> .


Oh I read the dodgy info...

FYI
"*What happens if you do not get a SORN?*
You will get an Insurance Advisory Letter if your car does not appear on the Motor Insurance Database (MID), a record of all insured cars in the UK.

The letter will tell you that your car is uninsured and that you face a fine if you do not either arrange insurance and tax *or register your car with a SORN*. If you ignore this letter you could face:

A fixed penalty of £100
Your vehicle being clamped, impounded or destroyed
A court prosecution, with a fine of up to £1,000
"

PS. you forgot to post the clive mott fuse link for the car that is not being used


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## witzend (May 8, 2020)

wildebus said:


> PS. you forgot to post the clive mott fuse link for the car that is not being used


I thought that was getting at You as a cheap fix to your expensive kit


			Clive`s


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## wildebus (May 8, 2020)

witzend said:


> I thought that was getting at You as a cheap fix to your expensive kit
> 
> 
> Clive`s


always handy to tell everyone about this fantastic  solution  (fuse makers love it - sales up 300%)

PS. Not my kit.
PPS.  Hope the Mott fuse setup is more reliable than your legal advice with insurance


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## ian81 (May 8, 2020)

REC said:


> Just got back to UK and found we have a speeding fine dated 10/1 but, as away, have only just got it. It has been increased from 45 euros to 180 euros as not paid in time!
> my question is, can I argue it as not at home address to get the fine? Can prove this with tunnel tickets.



I got a ticket in France in 2018 and because we were away and we didnt get the notice when we returned to our French house either it went up to €180. I succesfully appealed and just paid the original amount.

Suggest a letter in French to the office in Rennes enclosing a payment for the original amount.


See https://www.automobile-club.org/con...bsence-demandez-le-retour-a-l-amende-initiale
Or look at https://www.amendes.gouv.fr/tai
Maybe a tad easier for us with a Frenchaddress and French registered MH

Ian


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## ian81 (May 8, 2020)

If it helps the following is my schoolboy French that got a result:
Objet: Reference de l’avis d’amende xxxxxxxxxxxx

Madame, Monsieur,

Récemment, nous sommes rentrés chez nous, après un long voyage, pour trouver deux lettres datées de vous le xx Février 20xx et le xx Juillet 20xx.

Il s’agissait de la première indication de l’amende environ onze mois (xx Février 20xx a xx Février 20xx) après la contravention.

Je pense que c'est injuste dans les circonstances et j'espère que vous pourrez examiner cette affaire.

Malheureusement, j’ai le sentiment que je suis peut-être en faute en joignant un chèque à l’amende et en espérant que, dans les circonstances, J’attache.

Je me tiens à votre entière disposition pour tous renseignements complémentaires et vous prie, Madame, Monsieur, d'agréer l'expression de mes respectueuses salutations.


                                                                                                                                Respectueusement,


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## rugbyken (May 8, 2020)

had a spanish speeding ticket this year almost an annual event but this year there was a different wording ie 30 days from receipt of the notice not 30 days from the issue as it has in previous years,


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## REC (May 9, 2020)

Okta said:


> I don’t think 4 months is one of the redirection options offered, so perhaps you should check exactly what dates you paid for before taking this up with them.


paid same as six months but specified end date, post was forwarded ( or should have been!) to our son in UK.


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## REC (May 9, 2020)

witzend said:


> RM mail forwarding is expensive did you pay for more than the 4 wks. Good job your tax ran out as a taxed car without insurance could have got you another fine. Let us know how you get on appealing the French ticket


Misunderstanding...it was the car we left at home off-road which had the tax run out. But Mot also ran out end Feb, being done Monday and retaxed after.Insured all the time. Till then using campervan.


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## Okta (May 9, 2020)

REC said:


> paid same as six months but specified end date, post was forwarded ( or should have been!) to our son in UK.


You appear to have been let down and have a genuine complaint. I hope you get a helpful response.


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## Deleted member 64209 (May 9, 2020)

izwozral said:


> Royal Mail keep tabs on how many claims an individual makes and limits claims made,  despite any guarantees given when sent Recorded or Special Delivery.
> 
> In a 3 year period I sent over 3x thousand items sold on Ebay, anything £20 - £50 was sent Recorded Delivery, anything over that was sent Special Delivery.
> I made four claims for lost Recorded items in that 3 year period, I then made a claim for a lost Special Delivery, they twice refused to honour the guarantee, even after threatening small claims court.
> It was only when I told them that I was an ex postie at South Manchester PSO for five years that they honoured the guarantee. Great that they look after their own but very unfair to the public at large.


I'm still waiting for my set of 6 little bath duck companions to arrive, please hurry...


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## 2cv (May 9, 2020)

I think that it’s an automatic fine if a vehicle is neither taxed nor sorned. Link


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## delicagirl (May 9, 2020)

antiquesam said:


> I'm sure Royal Mail have a clause exonerating them from any liability. They do for everything else.




the RM response will be     "not me guv...  it were the virus what done it "


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## delicagirl (May 9, 2020)

2cv said:


> I think that it’s an automatic fine if a vehicle is neither taxed nor sorned. Link




i dont know how this will work out at the moment with legal permission have been granted to delay all MOTs for 3 months is it?   Without an MOT we cant tax a vehicle.....   interesting situation


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## 2cv (May 9, 2020)

No MOT required to SORN a vehicle.


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## wildebus (May 9, 2020)

delicagirl said:


> i dont know how this will work out at the moment with legal permission have been granted to delay all MOTs for 3 months is it?   Without an MOT we cant tax a vehicle.....   interesting situation


just to clarify the situation

HGVs (not heavy Motorhomes, proper HGVs) have had their MOTs extended by 3 months
Cars, vans under 3.5t, and motorhomes (including PHGV Motorhomes) have had their MOTs extended by 6 months - so the MOT is still valid and just as before, just given an extra automatic 6 months

But .... the 6 month extension only applies if the MOT is valid and was due on the 31st March or later.   So any car (or motorhome) whose MOT expired on 30th March or before will need a new MOT to be legal on the road, and to be able to be taxed.
It is still possible to get MOTs carried out and vehicles repaired, but the extension was to reduce the need to go out to garages to get MOTs done (which was good I think considering the massively reduced mileage most people are doing.  My car did just 104 miles last month)


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## REC (May 9, 2020)

My MOT expired end Feb. But as Royal Mail did not redirect my post, I missed the tax renewal reminders. I made an appointment for MOT before leaving Portugal. I couldnrtn notice as I didn't have the vehicle logwith me


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 10, 2020)

I have on several occasions redirected mail. It is and still is my understanding any government letters cannot be redirected within their policy. I say this as I have received all my mail elsewhere, except government mail which had been delivered in my house on return. Please correct me if I am wrong


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## davecumbria (May 10, 2020)

Hi All and Happy Lockdown!
Besides the motorhome I own 2 motorcycles insured on a single multi-bike policy. This is renewed in July each year.
ALL of the following is true .... 
About 3 years ago, at the end of November I received a letter from DVLA informing me that my scooter wasn't insured and didn't appear on the MID (motor insurance database). I checked on the MID and sure enough the scooter didn't appear but the Harley did! 
I contacted my insurance people informing them of the problem. They assured me that I was insured for both bikes and they would re-enter my details on the MID.
Mid December: Another letter from DVLA informing me that my scooter wasn't insured. Another call to my insurance. "We'll re-enter your details onto the MID".
Mid January: A £100 fixed penalty fine drops through the letter box. I ignore it and again contact my insurance people to again be told that my scooter was insured and they would again re-enter my details onto the MID.
Every couple of weeks more threatening letters arrived until July.
Coming up to Easter. Another fine drops through the letter box.
This time I start kicking off. Insurance ombudsman, MID data people, anyone I can think of who might be capable of sorting this. I contacted the police explaining my predicament to be told that if my bike wasn't on the MID and they couldn't, at that moment, get in touch with my insurance, they would seise the bike!
I was told by MID operators that they were experiencing problems at the moment but expected to get back to normal in a couple of weeks. 
May came (and went): Another fine, more contacting DVLA and insurance company.
June came (and went): Received more hassle but did receive a cheque from insurers for half the amount I had paid last July and a sorry, but they still couldn't get the scooter onto the MID!
July came: I switched insurance companies and .... both bikes were then on the MID. Thank God!

Morel of this story ...  DO NOT TRUST THE MID! Every time I leave home on a longish trip I now check the MID before setting off.
I hope this never happens to anyone else, but I fear it has and will again!


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## wildebus (May 10, 2020)

Sounds like remarkable incompetence on the part of that insurer. The last time I had a motor trade policy, I could have any number of vehicles on it, subject to a max value of a single vehicle and possibly a total value limit. 
But I recall very well that when I wanted to add/remove a vehicle, I would just log onto the MID database and add/delete the registration. 5 minute job, instant result and a very easy process.


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## REC (May 10, 2020)

rottytara2004 said:


> I have on several occasions redirected mail. It is and still is my understanding any government letters cannot be redirected within their policy. I say this as I have received all my mail elsewhere, except government mail which had been delivered in my house on return. Please correct me if I am wrong


I did not know that, will check! But the French one and many many others should still have been redirected? I am pretty certain that government ones have been redirected in the past though.


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## REC (May 10, 2020)

Doesn't make it very clear! Says "may have to inform authorities"



*Is there any mail you can’t redirect?*
We can’t redirect:


Mail for people who weren’t living at the old address
Personal mail from a business address
Items addressed ‘To the occupier’
Mail delivered by other delivery services or couriers, including Parcelforce
Mail from a nursing home, boarding house, hotel, student hall of residence, hospital or other multi-occupied premises
Mail from a British Forces Post Office (BFPO) address
Items to an address outside the UK that are larger than letter size or clearly contain goods
Restricted goods sent in the UK using Royal Mail Tracked 24® and Royal Mail Tracked 48®
Any mail the law prohibits us from redirecting. For example we may be required to notify the authorities of Redirection requests for mail relating to government benefits.
Find out more about Redirection terms and conditions.
Find out more about Business Redirection terms and conditions.


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## davecumbria (May 10, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Sounds like remarkable incompetence on the part of that insurer. The last time I had a motor trade policy, I could have any number of vehicles on it, subject to a max value of a single vehicle and possibly a total value limit.
> But I recall very well that when I wanted to add/remove a vehicle, I would just log onto the MID database and add/delete the registration. 5 minute job, instant result and a very easy process.


Aviva


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## Okta (May 10, 2020)

Some years back I had a problem with Coop Insurance. I renewed my motorhome insurance and received the documents. A few months later I noticed the direct debit had not gone out and phoned them to be told that my insurance had run out at the renewal date. Muppet 1 had not applied the direct debit, Muppet 2 had cancelled the policy and no one had bothered to tell me. Muppets 3 the one I was talking to said they had no way of checking what documents had been sent out. I had not been insured for 3 months but they would issue a new policy. Complete incompetence and computer systems with no built in checks. Completely useless as proved when the Coop Bank (which included their insurance arm) fell over shortly after.


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## Drover (May 10, 2020)

REC said:


> My MOT expired end Feb. But as Royal Mail did not redirect my post, I missed the tax renewal reminders. I made an appointment for MOT before leaving Portugal. I couldnrtn notice as I didn't have the vehicle logwith me


As far as I'm aware you no longer get renewal reminders from the government about mots or tax. 
My mot has been extended to 18th Oct..  was due 18th April,  they auto retaxed it 1st may.


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## davecumbria (May 10, 2020)

chrisjones18 said:


> As far as I'm aware you no longer get renewal reminders from the government about mots or tax.
> My mot has been extended to 18th Oct..  was due 18th April,  they auto retaxed it 1st may.


Hi Chris. You do get reminders regarding Tax. I have a reminder sat in front of me waiting to be paid. I can't pay it as my MOT runs out on 31st May, as does the Tax, but I can't renew as Gov haven't yet (so it says on website) added 6 months! I can't Tax without MOT. I'm booked in for a service this Friday but no MOT station open for motorcycles here (according to dealer). If I still can't Tax it by 31st., I'll be riding without Tax.


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## Drover (May 10, 2020)

davecumbria said:


> Hi Chris. You do get reminders regarding Tax. I have a reminder sat in front of me waiting to be paid. I can't pay it as my MOT runs out on 31st May, as does the Tax, but I can't renew as Gov haven't yet (so it says on website) added 6 months! I can't Tax without MOT. I'm booked in for a service this Friday but no MOT station open for motorcycles here (according to dealer). If I still can't Tax it by 31st., I'll be riding without Tax.


My tax reminder was " your direct debit of £165 will be taken shortly "  I had no mot or a reminder that it had expired and when i looked on the .gov site it said the mot date had been extended by 6 months. (I did know it was out in April though)

We live in ours.


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## Okta (May 10, 2020)

You can opt for email or text MOT reminders on the Government website.


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## Deleted member 12051 (May 10, 2020)

REC said:


> Doesn't make it very clear! Says "may have to inform authorities"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, to the above I am reading on last bullet point, over the period I’m talking about. I was disputing Tax related issues and a previous government pension issue. All of which were in my letter box as well as to my surprise a part rebate. All other mail was redirected.


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## davecumbria (May 11, 2020)

chrisjones18 said:


> My tax reminder was " your direct debit of £165 will be taken shortly "  I had no mot or a reminder that it had expired and when i looked on the .gov site it said the mot date had been extended by 6 months. (I did know it was out in April though)
> 
> We live in ours.


Ah, thanks Chris for clarifying that if you have signed up for direct debit, you don't get the V11 reminder. Interesting. 
Nobody gets anything from me on a rolling direct debit. My Mum was a Yorkshire lass and taught me well!


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## Drover (May 11, 2020)

davecumbria said:


> Ah, thanks Chris for clarifying that if you have signed up for direct debit, you don't get the V11 reminder. Interesting.
> Nobody gets anything from me on a rolling direct debit. My Mum was a Yorkshire lass and taught me well!


I did not see the dd for the scooter and only knew the mot was out when I got a gov letter say they were unable to tax it until it got a mot.
I did the mot and they automatically taxed it , I was going to sorn it but they beat me to it so I just left it taxed and tested in the garage covered in they rest of my stuff.
I have limited space for paperwork and my computer skills aren't up to much.........


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## REC (May 11, 2020)

I get reminders by text for Mot and knew that was due while away but  had escaped me that tax was due as that reminder comes by letter. Now taxed and Mot'd and waiting to see if I get a fine for no sorn! Contacted Royal Mail who inferred ( wait till I get the letter!) that  they will consider repayment of any fines due to their incompetence. The Royal Mail  apologised profusely and are now "investigating" . Had a letter delivered today for house with same number, but different road, town, county and postcode!


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## 2cv (May 11, 2020)

Although the no SORN fine is supposed to be automatic, I know of a few who have forgotten and it’s not been imposed.


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## davecumbria (May 12, 2020)

wildebus said:


> just to clarify the situation
> 
> HGVs (not heavy Motorhomes, proper HGVs) have had their MOTs extended by 3 months
> Cars, vans under 3.5t, and motorhomes (including PHGV Motorhomes) have had their MOTs extended by 6 months - so the MOT is still valid and just as before, just given an extra automatic 6 months
> ...


My dealer tells me that there is no provision for a MOT test on my scooter locally here.


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## jacquigem (May 12, 2020)

chrisjones18 said:


> I did not see the dd for the scooter and only knew the mot was out when I got a gov letter say they were unable to tax it until it got a mot.
> I did the mot and they automatically taxed it , I was going to sorn it but they beat me to it so I just left it taxed and tested in the garage covered in they rest of my stuff.
> I have limited space for paperwork and my computer skills aren't up to much.........


I would be a little careful if you are relying on a general"business equipment" item to cover the scooter as there is often an exclusion of motor vehicles in the definition of business equipment . Might be worth checking if important .


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## Drover (May 13, 2020)

jacquigem said:


> I would be a little careful if you are relying on a general"business equipment" item to cover the scooter as there is often an exclusion of motor vehicles in the definition of business equipment . Might be worth checking if important .


All fine thanks as ive retired. I changed all over to pleasure and to be honest there was very little change in the cost..... loving life doing nothing


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## Fazerloz (May 13, 2020)

davecumbria said:


> My dealer tells me that there is no provision for a MOT test on my scooter locally here.



They do not alter the MOT renewal date on the DVLA until a week before it is due. Then you will be able to tax.


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## REC (Oct 27, 2020)

well!
I sent the letter and payment to French aurthorities for the fine from Jan 2020, heard nothing back but assumed all ok as this was done in May. Today had a "registered letter" which required a signature, put through our letter box. Also a receipt which royal mail should have removed and sent back to France. They now want 180 euros....no longer have the proof of posting for the 45 euros paid in May. Tempted to just ignore it a no proof we have had the letter. But travelling through france again December! Are they likely to follow it up after Brexit, does anyone know? Really p**d off as paid the blooming fine!


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## REC (Oct 27, 2020)

BTW, Got a full refund for the non redirection from Royal Mail, as I had photos of an enormous pile of post on our doormat. They never advised that Government mail is not redirected so assume that was a misunderstanding by OP.
No problem following lack of SORN.


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## trevskoda (Oct 27, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Oh I read the dodgy info...
> 
> FYI
> "*What happens if you do not get a SORN?*
> ...


Put it up on bricks and then its not on the road,many here do that.


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## Deleted member 64209 (Oct 27, 2020)

REC said:


> well!
> I sent the letter and payment to French aurthorities for the fine from Jan 2020, heard nothing back but assumed all ok as this was done in May. Today had a "registered letter" which required a signature, put through our letter box. Also a receipt which royal mail should have removed and sent back to France. They now want 180 euros....no longer have the proof of posting for the 45 euros paid in May. Tempted to just ignore it a no proof we have had the letter. But travelling through france again December! Are they likely to follow it up after Brexit, does anyone know? Really p**d off as paid the blooming fine!


Surely your bank will show your payment...?


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## Scotia (Oct 27, 2020)

REC said:


> Just got back to UK and found we have a speeding fine dated 10/1 but, as away, have only just got it. It has been increased from 45 euros to 180 euros as not paid in time!
> my question is, can I argue it as not at home address to get the fine? Can prove this with tunnel tickets.
> 
> My other gripe is that b***y Royal Mail were paid to redirect my post and didnt, except for one bundle in April covering four weeks mail. Have I a case to claim it back from them since I would have been told of the fine if they had done as contracted? Have photos of the piles of mail sitting on my mat when we got back this evening! Also had car tax lapse, and an insurance not renewed. In the pile of mail was also several letters for my neighbour, including their bank cards!


Use their bank details to pay the fine!


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## Snapster (Oct 27, 2020)

Don’t know if this is of any use, might be worth a few minutes to see if you can contest the increased fine

https://www.antai.gouv.fr/?lang=en


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## wildebus (Oct 27, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Put it up on bricks and then its not on the road,many here do that.


Any reason why you quoted my post and made that reply?  can't see the connection


trevskoda said:


> Put it up on bricks and then its not on the road,many here do that.


From what I can see, people in NI do a lot of things that would not be legal anywhere else  (of maybe even in NI but just get ignored?)


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## Tezza33 (Oct 27, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Put it up on bricks and then its not on the road,many here do that.


It would still be classed as on the road here, also even if it is parked in your garage and the tax runs out you still get a fine if you haven't sorned it


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## Robmac (Oct 27, 2020)

Tezza33 said:


> It would still be classed as on the road here, also even if it is parked in your garage and the tax runs out you still get a fine if you haven't sorned it



Same in NI Terry.


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## REC (Oct 27, 2020)

Unfortunately I sent cash by recorded delivery. Had no way of paying euros that I could see and had to send letter explaining. So long ago that I no longer have the receipt. 
As the " recorded delivery" letter sent by French was not recorded, I am wondering what their next step would be and when,given it all has taken so long.


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## REC (Oct 27, 2020)

Tezza33 said:


> It would still be classed as on the road here, also even if it is parked in your garage and the tax runs out you still get a fine if you haven't sorned it


Luckily no fine on this occasion for lack of SORN.


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