# 180 into 360



## witzend (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm still trying to understand this rule. Just say you have 5 days in France then come home that has started   your 180 day period is there anything to stop you having the remaining 85 days of that 180 days followed immediately by the 90 days of your next 180 
eg 5 Away, 90 Home, 85 Away, 90 Away


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## Canalsman (Apr 7, 2021)

This you cannot do.

The 180 day period rolls forward. It's a window on the calendar.

It's hard to explain but in the example you give the 5 days taken will disappear from the allowance on the sixth day, because the window has moved on.

If you had taken 90 days in one go, then those 90 days will disappear a day at a time after 90 days and will only disappear fully after 180 days has elapsed.


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## rugbyken (Apr 7, 2021)

as above it’s a rolling 180 easier to say you must have been out of the zone for 90 days in the last 180


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## witzend (Apr 7, 2021)

Canalsman said:


> This you cannot do.
> 
> The 180 day period rolls forward. It's a window on the calendar.
> 
> ...


Pity though isn't it


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## peter palance (Apr 7, 2021)

Canalsman said:


> This you cannot do.
> 
> The 180 day period rolls forward. It's a window on the calendar.
> 
> ...


what dose that mean in simple terms. ok pj. oh thank you


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## Canalsman (Apr 8, 2021)

There isn't a simple explanation unfortunately. I've done my best to explain the principle above.


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## Poacher (Apr 8, 2021)

I‘m off to get my Irish passport.  Leave the wife to figure out her maths


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## GMJ (Apr 8, 2021)

The way I explain it to myself is to think in round numbers of 30 days.

Month 1 - 30 days away
Month 2 - 30 days away
Month 3 - 30 days away
Month 4 - home - as I have now used my 90 days in 180 allowance
Month 5 - home
Month 6 - home
180 days is now complete
Month 7 - away because as each day of the month goes by, a day in Month 1 becomes a day over the 180 day rule. It is replaced by each day in Month 7
Month 8 - away because as each day of the month goes by, a day in Month 2 becomes a day over the 180 day rule. It is replaced by each day in Month 8
Month 9  - away because as each day of the month goes by, a day in Month 3 becomes a day over the 180 day rule. It is replaced by each day in Month 9
Month 10 - home
Month 11 - home
Month 12 - home
etc etc

Please bear in mind that not every month is 30 days so this will need to be accounted for.


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## Boris7 (Apr 8, 2021)

Poacher said:


> I‘m off to get my Irish passport.  Leave the wife to figure out her maths


As long as your wife travels with you she can ignore the calculator.


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## GMJ (Apr 8, 2021)

For us and foreign travel it works like this. These are round months 

Jan - away 
Feb - away 
Mar - home
Apr - Home
May - away
June- home
July - home
August - home
Sept - away (as Jan and Feb have dropped off now)
Oct  - Home
Nov - Home
Dec - Home
Jan - away (as May has dropped off now)
Feb - away (as each day of Sept drops off we can replace it with a day away in Feb)
etc etc


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## REC (Apr 8, 2021)

I think playing with the calculators makes understanding it easier! 
My brain exploded when I think about it too much, although I do understand the working out!


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## rugbyken (Apr 8, 2021)

been trying to get my irish passport for almost a year had all documents returned saying that office was closed due to covid not checked for couple of months but situation was the same then


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## Jmick (Apr 8, 2021)

Boris7 said:


> As long as your wife travels with you she can ignore the calculator.


Unfortunately, any UK passport holder is bound by the 90 day rule - even if travelling with a spouse holding an Irish passport .


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## Trotter (Apr 8, 2021)

rugbyken said:


> been trying to get my irish passport for almost a year had all documents returned saying that office was closed due to covid not checked for couple of months but situation was the same then


Drinking Guinness does not entitle you to an Irish passport. I tried that.


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## alcam (Apr 8, 2021)

Trotter said:


> Drinking Guinness does not entitle you to an Irish passport. I tried that.


How about if you have an Irish girlfriend ? Could be argued you are rooted in Ireland


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## Petes (Apr 8, 2021)

I think the thing to remember is it is a rolling 180 day window so it goes back in time by 180 days. As long as the number of days you are away in the previous 180 days do not add up to more than 90 then you can travel.


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## Boris7 (Apr 8, 2021)

Jmick said:


> Unfortunately, any UK passport holder is bound by the 90 day rule - even if travelling with a spouse holding an Irish passport .


That is not the advise the Irish government has given or the your Europe web site.


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## izwozral (Apr 8, 2021)

I don't get all the complicated answers, witzend op is asking 180 into 360.

Simples, it goes twice!

Glad to help.


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## Boris7 (Apr 8, 2021)

There’s been much talk on other sites about this, and it’s all a bit confusing, the visa calculator is a great tool but DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC also comes into effect for spouses of those with EU passports, like everything EU it also has a complication or 2, the 3 months rule in DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC is NOT the same as the 90/180 rule.

It basically gave UK passport holders the right to stay in the EU and still applies to those with EU passports (I.e. Irish) and extends the right to 3 months in any 1 Schengen state for their spouse, therefore those with Irish passports can stay indefinitely and their spouse can stay (and this is the important bit) with them in any Schengen state for up to 3 months consecutively, BUT unlike the 90/180 rule they can then visit another country within the Schengen area for another 3 months or 1 night and then go back, but since passports are not stamped within the Schengen area borders that’s pretty immaterial really.

Both the Irish Government and the EU have agreed this understanding of Directive-2004-38-EC

Irish Community Services website has covered this extensively.



			https://travel-cook-eat.com/wp-content/uploads/Directive-2004-38-EC.pdf
		


Just to add, the Irish government advises any Irish passport holder travelling with a non EU spouse in the EU should print AND carry both their marriage certificate and the linked and highlighted Directive-2004-38-EC Document.


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## Boris7 (Apr 8, 2021)

rugbyken said:


> been trying to get my irish passport for almost a year had all documents returned saying that office was closed due to covid not checked for couple of months but situation was the same then


I think their just swamped, last year they started putting new applications from people born and living in the UK on the back burner, first generation descendants also took priority over second generation descendants, the rules for second generation descendants were I’m told also changed and checks increased, then Covid hit, basically everyone in England who ever knew, kissed or met a paddy suddenly wanted to be one.


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## Jmick (Oct 31, 2021)

Jmick said:


> Unfortunately, any UK passport holder is bound by the 90 day rule - even if travelling with a spouse holding an Irish passport .


Since putting this on the thread back in April, I've read several media articles that state that you are in fact permitted to circumvent the 90 day rule when travelling with your spouse if they possess an Irish passport. Suppose you would have to ensure that the non-Irish passport holder doesn't get theirs stamped when entering Europe - otherwise it may trigger the 90 day countdown for them irrespective of their spouse's passport??


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## GMJ (Oct 31, 2021)

Post  number 19 above, in this thread seems to have it covered.


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## Scotia (Oct 31, 2021)

I have an Irish wife so 180 goes 360!


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## GMJ (Oct 31, 2021)

Useful...

...wish I'd thought of that!


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## SimonM (Oct 31, 2021)

A friend of mine is English with English passport and owns a house in France where he has lived for several years - his is NOT a resident and regularly travels to and fro England to France. He has not been queried ever about his right to do so. Is there actually any checks on what is happening?


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## Drover (Oct 31, 2021)

Scotia said:


> I have an Irish wife so 180 goes 360!


I had one years ago, does that still count  
Seriously though our 3 children are entitled to an Irish passport. They have looked into it, 2 live in Spain anyway and this was the reason for the check.


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## GMJ (Oct 31, 2021)

SimonM said:


> A friend of mine is English with English passport and owns a house in France where he has lived for several years - his is NOT a resident and regularly travels to and fro England to France. He has not been queried ever about his right to do so. Is there actually any checks on what is happening?


I wonder if its all logged electronically these days so may catch up with him.


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## Snapster (Oct 31, 2021)

SimonM said:


> A friend of mine is English with English passport and owns a house in France where he has lived for several years - his is NOT a resident and regularly travels to and fro England to France. He has not been queried ever about his right to do so. Is there actually any checks on what is happening?


Things have only changed since the beginning of this year. What happened before that is irrelevant now. 
When your friend enters the EU ( or in some cases leaves the U.K. heading to the EU) his U.K. passport should receive a stamp with the date.
When he leaves the EU, his passport should get another stamp showing his date of exit. In a perfect world, these dates should be collated and any overstay flagged up and in theory, overstaying could result in a fine or a refusal to enter the EU for a while. 
Whether all that happens or not, is a matter for the EU border force officers to sort out. 
He could get a long term visa ( up to 6 months) to spend more time in the EU and I think this is what many second home owners are considering doing now.


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## SimonM (Oct 31, 2021)

Well my passport wasn’t stamped going out, it was barely looked at. I’ll see how close they look on my way back next week.


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## Norfolk NewBoy (Oct 31, 2021)

This is reported in several outlets:

British passport warning as woman BANNED from entering Spain as new changes hit​
Despite Linda visiting back in June, passport officials failed to stamp her documents when she left.

When she tried to visit again in September, she was stopped from travelling as she was seen as an “over-stayer”.

She told local Spanish media: “I was denied entry to Spain on September 26 due to my passport not being stamped on exit on a previous one-week visit to Spain which started on June 4.









						British passport warning as woman BANNED from entering Spain as new changes hit
					

British passport warning as woman BANNED from entering Spain as new changes hit




					www.nytimespost.com
				




It seems a good idea to ensure that passports ARE stamped every time you cross a Schengen border!

Gordon


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## Snapster (Oct 31, 2021)

Once the new system is in place you won’t need passport stamps. But, I’m not sure I believe the story. “ _A woman, named Linda”……._


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## barryd (Oct 31, 2021)

So all you have to do then to get freedom of movement back is to marry an Irish woman?

That doesn't sound too difficult. Ill break the news to the current Mrs D later.  Anyone know where I will get one (An Irish woman that is)?  Preferably under 30 and hot but I am willing to compromise if she has her own van.


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## Derekoak (Oct 31, 2021)

GMJ said:


> For us and foreign travel it works like this. These are round months
> 
> Jan - away
> Feb - away
> ...


We seem to have come to 2 months away 2 back 1 month away, 1 back also , but is not  January  dropping off from July? You do not need to wait until September unless of course you want to.


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## GMJ (Oct 31, 2021)

Yes we do. The little blighters will have gone back to school then plus it wont be too hot in Italy where we plan to go to


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## Scotia (Oct 31, 2021)

barryd said:


> So all you have to do then to get freedom of movement back is to marry an Irish woman?
> 
> That doesn't sound too difficult. Ill break the news to the current Mrs D later.  Anyone know where I will get one (An Irish woman that is)?  Preferably under 30 and hot but I am willing to compromise if she has her own van.


Took me a while to find a stable one, found the Donegal breed were freekin nutters when diluted with drink! Took me a long time to calm to the Irish accent after that experience but found a cracker by accident on the I.O.M. ( think she logs in now and again)


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## barryd (Oct 31, 2021)

Scotia said:


> Took me a while to find a stable one, found the Donegal breed were freekin nutters when diluted with drink! Took me a long time to calm to the Irish accent after that experience but found a cracker by accident on the I.O.M. ( think she logs in now and again)



All I can remember from my trips in my late teens and early twenties to Ireland with the boys, fishing, boating and campvervanning were how stunning all the girls were and how many of them there were. I seem to remember back then in the 80s there was a huge disproportionate number of young women to men in Ireland.   I did meet one girl (long story) around Lough Derg who I fell head over heels for but sadly it was not to be.  Bit of a bugger that as I could have been planning a six month trip in Provence or something.   Might look her up then. Bet she has about twenty kids now.


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## witzend (Oct 31, 2021)

barryd said:


> So all you have to do then to get freedom of movement back is to marry an Irish woman?


She wouldn't have to be Irish Any old Mare from Europe would do wouldn't She ?


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## Scotia (Oct 31, 2021)

witzend said:


> She wouldn't have to be Irish Any old Mare from Europe would do wouldn't She ?


Better an old hen than Poulet!


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## barryd (Oct 31, 2021)

witzend said:


> She wouldn't have to be Irish Any old Mare from Europe would do wouldn't She ?


Oh of course! French then. One of those pretty ones that sell the sausages on Dinan market. That aught to do it.


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## Norfolk NewBoy (Oct 31, 2021)

Perhaps those ladies who ply their wares from plastic chairs in laybys ought to consider increasing their offerings?

Gordon


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## Scotia (Oct 31, 2021)

barryd said:


> Oh of course! French then. One of those pretty ones that sell the sausages on Dinan market. That aught to do it.


Hooker ?


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## barryd (Oct 31, 2021)

They were lovely (the sausages weren't bad either).  Two young girls on the sausage stall that seemed to like to dance and sing in unison as they sprinkled herbs and stuff on the cooking meat.  Im easy pleased me.  I remember commenting to Michelle that you wouldnt see that on Darlington outdoor market.


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## Budgie (Oct 31, 2021)

barryd said:


> They were lovely (the sausages weren't bad either).  Two young girls on the sausage stall that seemed to like to dance and sing in unison as they sprinkled herbs and stuff on the cooking meat.  Im easy pleased me.  I remember commenting to Michelle that you wouldnt see that on Darlington outdoor market.


Don't know the lasses on  the savouries counter in Darlo market weren't bad


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## Boris7 (Oct 31, 2021)

SimonM said:


> Well my passport wasn’t stamped going out, it was barely looked at. I’ll see how close they look on my way back next week.


But it was scanned by your carrier (ferry company or Euro Tunnel etc) and that information was passed on to the French (or other) authorities and electronically recorded.


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