# Battery Type



## drewdt3 (Jan 28, 2010)

I am about to buy a new battery or 2, can anyone tell me if this has to be a sealed battery as it is going under my drivers seat or can it be otherwise?

Cheers

Drew


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## shortcircuit (Jan 28, 2010)

It does not need to be sealed.  They should come with a vent tube which you would take through the floor to allow the gas created when charging to dissipate to free air


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## Kontiki (Jan 28, 2010)

If it isn't the sealed type then make sure to ask for a vent tube, I have found they usually have them with an elbow to fit into the side of the battery but don't give you one unless you ask. You should then make sure that the pipe vents to the outside.


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## Deleted member 5759 (Jan 28, 2010)

Dont buy cheap car batteries, they wont last, buy good leisure batteries, worth it in the long run.

Peter


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## PaulC (Jan 28, 2010)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Dont buy cheap car batteries, they wont last, buy good leisure batteries, worth it in the long run.
> 
> Peter



I'm not so sure about that! Here is a link and look further on the site!



Sterling Power Products: What is the best battery to use for an auxiliary charging system?


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## gordon (Jan 28, 2010)

JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Dont buy cheap car batteries, they wont last, buy good leisure batteries, worth it in the long run.
> 
> Peter



there is no such thing as leisure batteries they are just rebadged starter batteries with a price to match. i have been useing 2 lorry batteries for over 6 years now without any problems don't be conned by the word leisure.


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## shortcircuit (Jan 28, 2010)

Gordon, can you substantiate your assertion or is it an opinion?

Dont see the point in manufacturers using a different manufacturing method for a battery to work differently when all they need to do is change the badge, so you must no something different????


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## n8rbos (Jan 29, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> Gordon, can you substantiate your assertion or is it an opinion?
> 
> Dont see the point in manufacturers using a different manufacturing method for a battery to work differently when all they need to do is change the badge, so you must no something different????



even if it's an opinion then i support him as i too have a starter battery as a leisure battery no problems and have done for many yrs.


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## shortcircuit (Jan 29, 2010)

I have no doubt you can use a lorry battery,car battery,etc, however to suggest a leisure battery is a rebadged  lorry battery is incorrect as they have a different internal construction.


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## Kontiki (Jan 29, 2010)

Ecosol batteries are supposed to be ok to use as a starter batteries according to their literature but they are more expensive & carry a 5 year guarantee. I was given to understand that leisure batteries have more & thinner plates allowing them to discharge more, but if used as a starter battery the plates can buckle. A starter battery is able to heavy loads for a short time but don't last well when discharged too much.

In the past I have used all sorts of batteries & they will all work, but now I would tend to go for a reasonable quality leisure battery than using an engine one or one of the cheap leisure ones.


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## PaulC (Jan 29, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> however to suggest a leisure battery is a rebadged  lorry battery is incorrect as they have a different internal construction.



Yes in theory! But if you look and read the info on the above link you will find that a true "leisure battery" or traction battery as I think they are called, are by far too expensive for motor home use!


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## shortcircuit (Jan 29, 2010)

Are we being pedantic Paul?  There is an obvious technical difference between a "lorry" battery and what is termed a "leisure" battery used in MHs.  You may well be correct in your link, which I have not read, but my point was more about the suggestion that it was just a re-badging con.


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## PaulC (Jan 29, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> There is an obvious technical difference between a "lorry" battery and what is termed a "leisure" battery used in MHs


But isn't that the point! If you read the link it will tell you "leisure battery" doesn't mean a thing! To be deep cycle it has to be a traction battery and they are too expensive. I believe they are only used where the expense can be justified! And some batteries claim that they are leisure batteries and can be used to start an engine, which due to the currents required for each task makes it impossible. This is a dead give away and indicates that they are only starter batteries re-badged! IMHO.


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## shortcircuit (Jan 29, 2010)

I will be honest, I have not read the article as it appeared very long and too technical.

So what you are saying is that a leisure battery is constructed no different to a starter battery even although it has thinner plates etc, etc

IMHO I do not think so, as we are in a commercial world and a con like that would be easily exposed and manipulated for commercial gain


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> I will be honest, I have not read the article as it appeared very long and too technical.


Well there's the problem!



> So what you are saying is that a leisure battery is constructed no different to a starter battery even although it has thinner plates etc, etc


There is no such thing as a leisure battery! Manufactures may say they have thicker plates etc, but it has virtually no effect! They may produce graphs to support their claims of charging, dis-discharging, cycles etc, but they are selective portions of the graph and do not showing the full graph. Figures if used in a certain way can give the desired results! Anyhow the amount of people on this site alone that are happy to use starter batteries is evidence enough to use them. I suspect it is the way that they are treated that makes them  possible.




> IMHO I do not think so, as we are in a commercial world and a con like that would be easily exposed and manipulated for commercial gain


But as we are seeing currently people can be manipulated to go into an illegal war in Iraq, so leisure batteries is childs play.


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 30, 2010)

PaulC said:


> Well there's the problem!
> 
> 
> There is no such thing as a leisure battery! Manufactures may say they have thicker plates etc, but it has virtually no effect! They may produce graphs to support their claims of charging, dis-discharging, cycles etc, but they are selective portions of the graph and do not showing the full graph. Figures if used in a certain way can give the desired results! Anyhow the amount of people on this site alone that are happy to use starter batteries is evidence enough to use them. I suspect it is the way that they are treated that makes them this possible.
> ...




  And statements like that tend to blow any pretence of your ability to think impartially.


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## maingate (Jan 30, 2010)

I think virtually any type of battery is suitable as a leisure battery.

The people with coachbuilts and van conversions do not seem to have such very strong views.

I believe the root of the problem is with charging systems which are too severe for any battery. Members on here have stated that they can fully charge a battery in an hour at the rate of 60 to 80 amps. One member has fitted a second alternator, which typically will give out at least 90 amps.

Deep discharges coupled with fast recharging is the reason for battery problems.


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> And statements like that tend to blow any pretence of your ability to think impartially.


That's because I'm not impartial! I prefer to go by the evidence! Which sinks all prejudices.


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 30, 2010)

PaulC said:


> That's because I'm not impartial! I prefer to go by the evidence! Which sinks all prejudices.




 Now, there's a contradiction in terms.


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> Now, there's a contradiction in terms.


Please explain!


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## shortcircuit (Jan 30, 2010)

Im sorry Paul but your view point is becoming boring. The fact that leisure batteries are manufactured differently to lorry batterries and have different charge/discharge characteristics means they are different.  The statement that they are the same and simply badged differently is incorrect.

Many on this site use lorry vehicle satisfactorily has absolutely no bearing on the matter.

You can be as technical as you want but a fact is a fact.


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 30, 2010)

PaulC said:


> Please explain!



 That would be pointless. You wouldn't listen.


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> The fact that leisure batteries are manufactured differently to lorry batterries and have different charge/discharge characteristics means they are different.



But they are not! It is a big CON! There is no such thing as a "leisure battery", manufactures present dubious "facts" to maintain they exist! You have heard the saying "figures can be used to prove anything" that is what they are doing. In fact on another site a user has had several leisure batteries and now uses van starter batteries, because of the failure rates! The real deep cycle batteries are too expensive to use in motorhomes and doubt not practical anyhow!


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> That would be pointless. You wouldn't listen.


Ah so you have nothing to back you up then! Game, set and match to me then!


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## shortcircuit (Jan 30, 2010)

Sorry Paul cant continue this blinkered debate.  Just going out to Trading Standards to report that I have just been mis-sold two leisure batteries that I have just bought!!!  This guy on forum says its a big con.


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 30, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> Sorry Paul cant continue this blinkered debate.  Just going out to Trading Standards to report that I have just been mis-sold two leisure batteries that I have just bought!!!  This guy on forum says its a big con.



Me too.


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> I have just been mis-sold two leisure batteries that I have just bought!!!  This guy on forum says its a big con.



I'm glad you've come to your senses at last. And I knew there was a reason why you were taking a belligerent attitude, it's because you have fallen for the con! And you don't like to lose face by reading the data on the link I've posted! Now i will adjust my opinion if you have any evidence, but you'll not have any! Yes I thought the same as you that leisure batteries were the way to go, until I investigated the subject. And seen as there are many people just using starter batteries on the site and others (and are happy to) if treat right, it has been proved to me that "leisure batteries" are a con!


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## shortcircuit (Jan 30, 2010)

PaulC said:


> I'm glad you've come to your senses at last. And I knew there was a reason why you were taking a belligerent attitude, it's because you have fallen for the con! And you don't like to lose face by reading the data on the link I've posted! Now i will adjust my opinion if you have any evidence, but you'll not have any! Yes I thought the same as you that leisure batteries were the way to go, until I investigated the subject. And seen as there are many people just using starter batteries on the site and others (and are happy to) if treat right, it has been proved to me that "leisure batteries" are a con!



Its a pity you are so gullible in believing all you read, which is evident in your postings.

You ended a posting with such an impolite "Ah so you have nothing to back you up then! Game, set and match to me then!"  You should realise this is not a game more like a sport.  As with fishing, when you catch a wee tiddler you throw it back and hope that it will grow up so you can get better sport in the future.

End of post


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> Its a pity you are so gullible in believing all you read, which is evident in your postings.


Examples please?


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 30, 2010)

PaulC said:


> I'm glad you've come to your senses at last. And I knew there was a reason why you were taking a belligerent attitude, it's because you have fallen for the con! And you don't like to lose face by reading the data on the link I've posted! Now i will adjust my opinion if you have any evidence, but you'll not have any! Yes I thought the same as you that leisure batteries were the way to go, until I investigated the subject. And seen as there are many people just using starter batteries on the site and others (and are happy to) if treat right, it has been proved to me that "leisure batteries" are a con!



 Your 'evidence' is taken from a site with a financial gain to be made.

  I'll take Varta's word before Sterlings thank you.

   Evidence?


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## gordon (Jan 30, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> Sorry Paul cant continue this blinkered debate.  Just going out to Trading Standards to report that I have just been mis-sold two leisure batteries that I have just bought!!!  This guy on forum says its a big con.



all i can say is if you ask for advice to save money and you ignore it then why ask and you must have more money than sense. if you go to any caravan centre the prices are so hicked up cause of gullable people who won't listen to advice


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## runnach (Jan 30, 2010)

gordon said:


> all i can say is if you ask for advice to save money and you ignore it then why ask and you must have more money than sense. if you go to any caravan centre the prices are so hicked up cause of gullable people who won't listen to advice



Good chance I wont bump into you at Yorkshire Caravans then !!!

Channa


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## shortcircuit (Jan 30, 2010)

Totally agree with you Gordon there are a lot of gullible people that believe all they read.  

Two 110A/h leisure batteries brand new for £130.  Yes I have more money than sense.

Im glad I answered the OP in the beginning as he will be wondering what all this is to do about if it was OK to fit under seat


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> I'll take Varta's word before Sterlings thank you.



Well I've checked the Sterling website and they do not deal in batteries as far as I can see! So who is more likely to give independent advice? Sterling or Varta, who not only make batteries but charge a premium for their leisure products.

Anyhow here are some quotes from the Sterling site

"Watch the term leisure / deep cycle as it simply does not exist. The standard, so called, leisure batteries, are simply starter batteries with extra support for the active lead material. This may increase the life by 5 – 10 %, but does not turn a starter battery into a deep cycle battery." 

"if you plan to live on board (boats} or travel the world then do look at 6 V or 2 V traction and build your battery bank up from those batteries, but expect to pay about 3 – 6 times the price of so called standard leisure batteries"

"Battery sales companies quote battery cycles such as 6000 cycles for the battery. This looks good on the surface, however it will be 6000 cycles at say 10% discharge. This is a meaningless figure." Remember figures can be made to mean anything, with a little bit of spin!

"So, for deep cycle and long life, the traction batteries are by far and away the best. But their price tends to kill them. However, if you are doing a long journey around the world, or going away from the UK for 2 years plus, then investing in 2 volt or 6 volt traction batteries is a must, regardless of the cost."

"For general leisure use: use low cost Lead Acid which can be topped up with water. So called leisure batteries"

And from various other sources

“I've had various makes of leisure battery, and not been that impressed with any of them to be honest. Some have been dead inside 6 months, and I only use them occasionally”

“All can say is I get the most staying power (and quickest charge obviously!) out the 90 amp hr starter battery..and repeated draining and charging does not seem to bother it at all.”

“All the leisure batteries i have bought have been a real disappointment, some not lasting very long at all.”

“I have a couple of old Delphi lorry batteries which i have abused over 6 or 7 years”

And surprise, surprise a Varta battery

Specifications
"12V 85Ah
Deep-cycle & Starting
advanced semi-traction technology for extreme deep cycling"

Just what is a semi_traction battery? It's like been semi-pregeant! And "Deep-cycle & Starting" is not possible, because it has to be low current at slow discharge or provide cranking current (800 amps (?)) in short bursts.


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 30, 2010)

A bit like semi literate.


 I know about Sterling, I read their stuff years ago.


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> A bit like semi literate.
> 
> 
> I know about Sterling, I read their stuff years ago.



That is even worse, because you have no excuse except stupidity!
There is a link for a genuine leisure/deep cycle battery and there is a spec sheet in pdf format.

Rolls 12CS11P Deep Cycle Battery

All for the eye watering £700, how much did you pay for yours £159 max I bet!!!


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 30, 2010)

PaulC said:


> That is even worse, because you have no excuse except stupidity!
> There is a link for a genuine leisure/deep cycle battery and there is spec sheet in pdf format.
> 
> Rolls 12CS11P Deep Cycle Battery
> ...



 I bow to your superior intellect.

kin richard


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## runnach (Jan 30, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> I bow to your superior intellect.
> 
> kin richard



pssst let em carry on, all this is making me look reasonably normal 

What about generators ???

Channa


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## shortcircuit (Jan 30, 2010)

I never thought it would happen but great Channa.  Just purchased a Kipor IG2000, any idea how good?


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## n8rbos (Jan 30, 2010)

channa said:


> pssst let em carry on, all this is making me look reasonably normal
> 
> What about generators ???
> 
> Channa



**** channa!!!!!!!wrong threadddddddddddddd




lmao just jokin


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## runnach (Jan 30, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> I never thought it would happen but great Channa.  Just purchased a Kipor IG2000, any idea how good?



not a clue , a kipor IG 2000 sounds like a cross between a smoked fish and a Lexus motorcar ( dont worry booked in with the trick cyclist on Monday !!! lol )  !!!

Kipor generators from posts here sound quality gennies so I wouldnt fret too much.

Channa


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## PaulC (Jan 30, 2010)

The only thing I know about generators is that there's no such thing as a silent one. Unless it's your own!


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## runnach (Jan 30, 2010)

n8rbos said:


> **** channa!!!!!!!wrong threadddddddddddddd
> lmao just jokin



So was I , btw whats a thread ? 

Channa


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## gordon (Jan 31, 2010)

channa said:


> Good chance I wont bump into you at Yorkshire Caravans then !!!
> 
> Channa



your right there channa but i will be at ropers caravans cattrick tomorrow but i will only be fixing their leaking roof and i loaded the price i just could'ent resist did'nt think i'd get the work but i did lol


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## gordon (Jan 31, 2010)

shortcircuit said:


> I never thought it would happen but great Channa.  Just purchased a Kipor IG2000, any idea how good?



they are sound and alot cheaper than honda but don't let it run out of fuel  mine is a cow to start when it runs out


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## BedfordMJ (Jan 31, 2010)

PaulC said:


> I'm not so sure about that! Here is a link and look further on the site!
> 
> 
> 
> Sterling Power Products: What is the best battery to use for an auxiliary charging system?



Hi Paul,
You are quite correct and we have had this debate many times. The evidence is their for people to read.


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 31, 2010)

BedfordMJ said:


> Hi Paul,
> You are quite correct and we have had this debate many times. The evidence is their for people to read.



  Don't believe everything you read though?


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## BedfordMJ (Jan 31, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> Don't believe everything you read though?



No I don't believe everything that I read, the SBMCC (Self build club) also  agree with Sterling as does my father.


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 31, 2010)

My van is now 6 years old and the original 2x90 amp varta battery is still going strong.

  Try that with a 'normal' battery!


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## BedfordMJ (Jan 31, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> My van is now 6 years old and the original 2x90 amp varta battery is still going strong.
> 
> Try that with a 'normal' battery!



That can be quite normal for a set of batteries.


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## derekfaeberwick (Jan 31, 2010)

BedfordMJ said:


> That can be quite normal for a set of batteries.



  Now that's blown your impartiality.


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## BedfordMJ (Jan 31, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> Now that's blown your impartiality.



Doubt it as what you will have is a lead-acid battery despite what it is labelled as.


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## PaulC (Jan 31, 2010)

After a bit of research with professor Google

"Basically there are two types of lead acid batteries (along with 3 sub categories); The two main types are Starting (cranking), and Deep Cycle (marine/golf cart). The starting battery (SLI starting lights ignition) is designed to deliver quick bursts of energy (such as starting engines) and therefore has a greater plate count. The plates are thinner and have somewhat different material composition. The deep cycle battery has less instant energy, but greater long-term energy delivery. Deep cycle batteries have thicker plates and can survive a number of discharge cycles. Starting batteries should not be used for deep cycle applications because the thinner plates are more prone to warping and pitting when discharged. The so-called Dual Purpose Battery is a compromise between the two types of batteries, though it is better to be more specific if possible."

source Battery Basics: How to Provide Care and Maintenance for Your Battery | BatteryStuff.com

So by combining the two types of batteries in one, you are not getting the best of two worlds, but more like a battery that is not good for either task! IMHO.


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## Randonneur (Jan 31, 2010)

I have been watching this thread with interest as I intend to replace my leisure battery soon.

The problem we have, is that most leisure batteries are also listed as being able to do cranking / semi-traction as well. Just look at the Ebay listings under leisure battery.

So basically this means that, unless you can find a proper deep cycle battery, most of us are going to have to settle for either a starter / cranking battery, or a leisure / semi-starter / semi traction battery.

The options as far as I can see are, buy either a battery sold as a starter battery or a battery sold as a leisure battery. Either way from what I can see you are getting the same type of battery with a different label on it.

Most of us will buy one of these two types as they will be in our budget range, ( especially if you're buying a pair ). Most of us I guess, would, as we don't have mega bucks to buy a specialist deep cycle battery.

As long as whatever battery we have does what we want it to do and lasts for an acceptable period, ie:- 3 to 5 years with proper maintenance, then we'll have had our money's worth out of it.


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## derekfaeberwick (Feb 7, 2010)

PaulC said:


> Just what is a semi_traction battery? It's like been semi-pregeant! And "Deep-cycle & Starting" is not possible, because it has to be low current at slow discharge or provide cranking current (800 amps (?)) in short bursts.



 A compromise, as should have been obvious.



PaulC said:


> After a bit of research with professor Google
> 
> "Basically there are two types of lead acid batteries (along with 3 sub categories); The two main types are Starting (cranking), and Deep Cycle (marine/golf cart). The starting battery (SLI starting lights ignition) is designed to deliver quick bursts of energy (such as starting engines) and therefore has a greater plate count. The plates are thinner and have somewhat different material composition. The deep cycle battery has less instant energy, but greater long-term energy delivery. Deep cycle batteries have thicker plates and can survive a number of discharge cycles. Starting batteries should not be used for deep cycle applications because the thinner plates are more prone to warping and pitting when discharged. The so-called Dual Purpose Battery is a compromise between the two types of batteries, though it is better to be more specific if possible."
> 
> ...



  Now do you believe me?

 You chose to disregard others opinions because you read up one site and believed it as Gospel.

 I did indicate that I had already researched (Googled) the matter.

 Any apologies forthcoming will be graciously accepted.


  P.S. Your H.O. is an ill founded one that tastes a little bit like sour grapes, IMHO.


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## PaulC (Feb 7, 2010)

derekfaeberwick said:


> A compromise, as should have been obvious.



Semi traction does mean a thing! If you go down to the supermarket and see some "Traditional Ham", it doesn't mean anything in law, so it could be anything! 



> You chose to disregard others opinions because you read up one site and believed it as Gospel.


No, several sites which are independent and without any taurus excrement.



> I did indicate that I had already researched (Googled) the matter.



Well that's a surprise because I use Professor Google as well and here is a link for traction batteries. The real deal!

Industrial Battery,Stationary Battery,Traction Battery,UPS Battery,Battery Manufacturers,India

Not a word about compromise there then! Because there is no such thing as a semi-traction battery.

So use them as a leisure battery in your van . Because they are genuine deep cycle!



> Any apologies forthcoming will be graciously accepted.



When there is something to apologise for, it will be forth coming. So if you can wait until hell freezes over, because you have failed to present an evidence to support your dubious claims.




> P.S. Your H.O. is an ill founded one that tastes a little bit like sour grapes, IMHO.



I'll just treat that remark with the contempt it deserves!


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## derekfaeberwick (Feb 7, 2010)

PaulC said:


> Semi traction does mean a thing! If you go down to the supermarket and see some "Traditional Ham", it doesn't mean anything in law, so it could be anything!
> 
> Semi traction sarnies anyone?
> 
> ...



As I have treated your semi researched excrement.


 Gordammed tete de Ricard.


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## BedfordMJ (Feb 7, 2010)

I stand by what i've said in this and every other thread about batteries.


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## defitzi (Feb 24, 2010)

oooops =don't know if i'm on right road but i'se charging on (sic) regardless:  I thought traction  usually refers to invalid scooter carriage/ similar use  batteries etc ie very specialist , frequently rebuilt by original makers in exhange deals, so not, I think easy to acquire cheap .....
Unlike the "stifened" starter type batteries, "real" leisure batteries ARE gel filled...hence they usually ARE much more expensive. "yachties" buy them because majority of 'em are buying hugely expensive toys detaxed and paid for-upkeep included- on the company tax free tab ( I don't think campers  qualify) AND THEY RUN ON RED DIESEL (LEGIT).  Old salts (old boat owning sailors like me with old inexpensive boats who do sail offshore occasionally (well I DID until very recently) do prefer gel batts because they don't spill when 90 deg out of vertical and boat is smashing up and down six feet+ in a heavy sea- but they still really DO cost and anything from a yacht shop has an extra 150% added!
Otherwise, I go for nice big cheap lead acids when on the level!


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## defitzi (Feb 24, 2010)

wot's in a name? A rose by any other..... ditto salesmen and manufacturers sh*t!
So believe what U like and pay the piper.....if he doesn't dance kick him in the goolies!


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## defitzi (Feb 24, 2010)

dont believe that.....!


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## defitzi (Feb 24, 2010)

now why do I think U would say that-would'nt you?


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## defitzi (Feb 24, 2010)

with a charge like that be bloody sure you don't accidentally connect the termionals to your whatzit!
or how to get a cheap massage-leave your mobile switched on in your pants pocket!)


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## derekfaeberwick (Feb 25, 2010)

Who are you talking to, have I missed something here?


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## coolasluck (Feb 25, 2010)

lol i missed that one tooo!!!   senility perhaps



I see that you are starting a fight again derick,we dont need any more punch ups please


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## derekfaeberwick (Feb 25, 2010)

coolasluck said:


> lol i missed that one tooo!!!   senility perhaps
> 
> 
> 
> I see that you are starting a fight again derick,we dont need any more punch ups please




 Nah, I was just worried that I'd missed one.


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