# How old is too old



## Hazy-thoughts (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi, My wife and I are looking to travel Fulltime round Europe for a few years. We will be mostly Wildcamping wherever possible to do so safely. We are currently undecided as what motorhome will best fit our needs, although I am erring on the idea of Hymer. I like their build quality and space available within them.

The model we like best is the S700. This seems to give the layout we would ideally like with a fixed bed and plenty of room and storage space.
Looking through the ad's both here and in Germany I have decided that unless an absolute beauty came up at the right price, we would be buying from Germany / Holland as their prices seem quite a bit lower. I have looked into the re registering and Mot issues, and this seems fairly straightforward.

This brings me to my question.

I seem to be seeing a lot of s700's from around 1991 -1994 and then from 1997 onwards. I know a lot will obviously depend on the mileage and way the vehicle has been looked after, but can anyone give me any advice as to how long and for how far these old Merc engines and associated parts keep going.

Like asking how long is a piece of string I know, but if anyone has experience of the larger older Hymer's I would be very grateful for any pointers you could give me.

Thanks in anticipation

Wally and Helen


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## guerdeval (Jan 4, 2008)

I have had G wagens with this older 5 cylinder engine and I guess they will go on forever but very slowly. 250,000 miles is commonplace but if the gearing is similar to the G then 60mph is top and cruising at 50-55mph the norm, I had a turbo fitted to one by TB turbos which was a big improvement but still not startling and cost over £2k fitted. You're right about Hymer quality though, really are the best you can buy, thats why they cost more, the Merc engines do sound great though, I hope you find what you're looking for, good luck.


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## Hazy-thoughts (Jan 4, 2008)

Fantastic thank you very much for the advice guerdeval, This may sound like a silly question, but when you say G wagens, do you mean G as in Garage version ?

Thanks

Wally ands Helen


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## Deleted member 775 (Jan 4, 2008)

i think what he means by g wagon is the 4x4 from merc it is built like a tank and will run forever if looked after all of the comercial based m/homes are a safe bet also i think 250.000 miles is nothing if looked after you can double that and more


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## avandriver (Jan 4, 2008)

Older Mercedes engines that have been looked after are fantastic and 250.000 miles is only just run in .

The advantage with the older Merc engine is that you can run them on straight vegetable oil 

Steve


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## Deleted member 775 (Jan 4, 2008)

i think that age is not a prob withm/homes, if you find one that has been looked after sometimes the older ones are a good bet as they are well made. some of the newer mid priced vans are a bit flimsy, and look like they will soon show there age.


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## walkers (Jan 4, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> Hi, My wife and I are looking to travel Fulltime round Europe for a few years. We will be mostly Wildcamping wherever possible to do so safely. We are currently undecided as what motorhome will best fit our needs, although I am erring on the idea of Hymer. I like their build quality and space available within them.
> 
> The model we like best is the S700. This seems to give the layout we would ideally like with a fixed bed and plenty of room and storage space.
> Looking through the ad's both here and in Germany I have decided that unless an absolute beauty came up at the right price, we would be buying from Germany / Holland as their prices seem quite a bit lower. I have looked into the re registering and Mot issues, and this seems fairly straightforward.
> ...


just brought a 1998 hymer cs644 over from germany, the re registering is a breeze just get a new british mot (don't forget if you only have one fog light fitted iit will be on the wrong side so needs changing or it'll fail the mot also your headlight beam will need sorting) insurance on the vin number and off to the dvla with £50 and the car tax fee appropriate to the vehicle and they will do the rest took less than a week to get sorted and that was over new year. the hymer does seem to be good quality and made for using good luck and good hunting we went over twice before we found what we wanted but it was still well wrth it'
tony and lynn


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## Hazy-thoughts (Jan 5, 2008)

Guy's Thank you all so much, Doing this fulltime, you will appreciate that I really want to try and get it right, there is always the chance of ending up with a problem or two, and I appreciate the loss of power will be noticeable in a older vehicle. But I dont want it to race up and down motorways, ( Been doing that far too long) If I can find a decent vehicle around ten years old and it will plod on  and on it will do me fine.

What about interior fittings and plumbing electric's etc. 

Anyone heard of leak problems or anything I should specifically look out for ?

Sorry but so many questions 

Ps if mod's would prefer me to start new thread with each question I am happy to, just thought it might keep it tidier with all my clutter in here


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## Heimdal (Jan 5, 2008)

My pal has a K reg camper and his present insurers say they will not renew due to its age, can anyone recommend a possible company that looks more favourably on older vans ?


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## lenny (Jan 5, 2008)

Do you mean K reg. (1992)?. this insurance company should be named and shamed
I say dump them anyway and contact any other company,I'm sure there will be no problems.
Regards..Lenny


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## Heimdal (Jan 5, 2008)

Yep, 1992. Not my van, so I don't know the present company, but will find out


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## Deleted member 207 (Jan 6, 2008)

I've had the 4 cyl 2500cc and the 5cyl 3000cc Merc engines both in Westfalias so a bit different to the Hymers. The engines really are very good, very simple and its all mechanical (injection pump), none of those nasty electronics to go wrong - the new Sprinters need a Merc computer man to change the battery as the elctronics get reset. The older mechanicals are still readily available and a lot of UK motor factors have parts like wheel brake cyls, clutch cyls, etc.

Just one comment that was made to me recently about the Hymer's width is that it can restrict you from access to some parts of Europe, mainly the narrow village roads and some of the mountain roads. We met a few Hymers in places where the drivers were struggling.

Buying a Merc chassis is usually risk free, BUT one thing I've learnt is that the German annual vehicle inspections are not upto the standard of the UK MOT. Things that they let go in Germany - shock absorbers, chassis rust, wheel bearings - will fail in the UK. If you can get a copy of the MOT standards, take them with you when you inspect your candidate vehicles.


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## Geoff.W (Jan 6, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> Guy's Thank you all so much, Doing this fulltime, you will appreciate that I really want to try and get it right, there is always the chance of ending up with a problem or two, and I appreciate the loss of power will be noticeable in a older vehicle. But I dont want it to race up and down motorways, ( Been doing that far too long) If I can find a decent vehicle around ten years old and it will plod on  and on it will do me fine.
> 
> What about interior fittings and plumbing electric's etc.
> 
> ...



I always think that when looking at s'hand Motorhomes no.1 concern should be leaks/water ingress, regardles of age. The areas giving most concern are:- on "A"class around the screen and front panel to roof join, on "C"class around the over cab (Luton) bed area. On both types check around rear panels and windows, fronts and rears seem to be more prone than sides. Another area worth particular attention is around the rooflights.

Unless the Motorhome appears to be very well used the interior fittings, plumbing and electrics on something 10yrs old shouldn't give rise to great concern.

As well as a through mechanical check it is worth bearing in mind that before embarking on an extended trip, that components like brakes and suspension will need to be in A1 condition. It is advisable to price check and budget for replacement shock absorbers. brake pads & discs etc.

Please don't be sorry for asking questions, I for one and I'm sure many others on here find it is refreshing to find someone who is willing to listen and learn.

Another tip I would like to add is that when looking to buy a motor home 10yrs+ old condition is much more important than actual age. A good 15yr old camper will probably be a better bet than a poor 10yr old one.


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## terry1956 (Jan 6, 2008)

*condition*

HI, The older hymers are just find,The things to look at if wild camping for any time is power. Some sites both in germany and france have power points and for around 2 euros you can rechange the battries, sola power costs alot and only works when the suns out, so you will need 3 x good leisure battries remember they must be the same size and age. If you get faults with any faults there are lots of dealers in europe that will help you out, germany being better re price then france etc.
The engines on old hymers go on for ever, but change the oil and filters 1st thing, also have a good look at the age of the tires.
I see lots of them on the sites, and all look happy in them. also get a copy of the camperstop book, which will give you details of lots of very nice places to stop over for around 2 to 10 euros per night, some are free.
terry


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## Hazy-thoughts (Jan 6, 2008)

Once again, Thanks very much to you all, every snippet of info is digested and will hopefully come in useful to us along our way.
You guy's have really put my mind at rest regards an older Hymer, as well as Geoff giving me a few new idea's. I seem to be beavering away checking prices and spec's on so many vehicles now it is fascinating.
Thanks again One and all.
Your help is very much appreciated.

Wally


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## Deleted member 775 (Jan 6, 2008)

Heimdal said:


> My pal has a K reg camper and his present insurers say they will not renew due to its age, can anyone recommend a possible company that looks more favourably on older vans ?


 try adrian flux, my van is 26 year old and i have no probs. they even offer you a agreed value on your van. i chose him as i use my van as normal transport and he was the only one i could find that will cover me for commuting .


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## Belgian (Jan 6, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> Guy's Thank you all so much, Doing this fulltime, you will appreciate that I really want to try and get it right, there is always the chance of ending up with a problem or two, and I appreciate the loss of power will be noticeable in a older vehicle. But I dont want it to race up and down motorways, ( Been doing that far too long) If I can find a decent vehicle around ten years old and it will plod on  and on it will do me fine.
> 
> What about interior fittings and plumbing electric's etc.
> 
> ...


Hi, 
Best MH-s available on the continent are German made. Best insulation 
(don't ever buy Italian or Spanish, they are made for mediteranean weather-except Elnagh). All German blands are OK. They use PSA (Citroën, Peugeot, Fiat-all the same) or Mercedes under it, all robust engines. Prefer the older 'atmospheric' diesels to the new computerised ones. Generally the same engine but much easier to look after. They only have a 'breathproblem' over 2000m altitude. No problem for spares at the contintent. French MH' are a little weaker on the electricity side on the built-up. Belgian mades are also OK (Konings, Maesss) they use German DIN-norms. 
So Hymer is OK. If buying on the continent: compare prices. Same product is generally 10% cheaper in Belgium or Luxembourg than in Germany or the Netherlands. In France, French-made are a little cheaper.
Also look at the gas-bottles: Germany, Benelux use DIN-norms. France half way. Special connections for Spain, Portugal. 
Myself I'm happy with a Weinsberg Meteor on a Peugeot J5 of '94; never had any major problem.


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## terry1956 (Jan 7, 2008)

*re insurance*

Hi, just one note please be aware that A Flux will underwrite about anything but are not so good at paying out when things go wrong, they the FU insurrance, they are said to be ok, and do pay out when needs be.
terry


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## Don (Jan 7, 2008)

Just as support to Geoff's comment. I have a 10year old Pilote, dry as a bone, snug as a bug in a rug and very few miles. My son-in-law has just bought a lovely looking Ace Milano, Brand new, leakes like a sieve, and every thing keeps falling apart. He paid twice what I paid.
Who got the better deal?
I know what I think.

Don


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## Deleted member 775 (Jan 7, 2008)

sometimes a older van that has been looked after, can be a better buy than a lot of newer models. mine is 26 years old and i asume it has seen out alot of newer ones


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## Hazy-thoughts (Jan 21, 2008)

Thanks Don and Mandrake, I have been looking at or around ten yr old Hymers, They seem to also fit what we are able to afford £25,000 - £30,000 
I think that this is realistic, for that I expect to get a Good condition not too high mileage vehicle, which hopefully we may well be able to sell on should something happen and we needed to.
I absolutely love the look of the slightly older 1992-3-4 s700's, but am concerned about mileage, and resale on one of these. Also buying now for a fulltiming adventure how long before we encountered an age related problem or two with something that old.


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## Don (Jan 21, 2008)

I assume that you mean vehicle age and not your own.
A couple of points come to mind.
Normaly Campers come with extremely low milage (mine was 30K on a 10 year old vehicle) Which to me means that I am driving a 10 year old vehicle that had the use of a 3 or 4 year old vehicle.

Assuming you are paying cash as I did, then this enables you to keep some money back for Maintenance.(my son-in-laws is on Hp)

Diesel engines tend to go on for ever as long as you service regularly and dont abbuse them (regular oil & Filter changes and fuel filter seems to be the order of the day).

The only advise I would give on experience is look at lots, dont fall in love with the first one. be honest with your self, does it meet all your requirements. I know that if I was doing it again from scratch I wouldnt have got the pilote, nothing wrong with it more than pleased, but it is more than I need, especially after seeing the small conversions at the Manchester show this weekend.

Any way, good luck in your search.

Don


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## cas (Jan 21, 2008)

mandrake said:


> try adrian flux, my van is 26 year old and i have no probs. they even offer you a agreed value on your van. i chose him as i use my van as normal transport and he was the only one i could find that will cover me for commuting .



Another classic van driver! ive got mine with adrian flux never had any problems, but wouldnt have there breakdown cover.


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## GARY ENGLISH (Jan 21, 2008)

*Oldies*

As long as they have been looked after and well maintained,should not be a problem.Just look at some of the marvelious classics about.


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## Hazy-thoughts (Feb 16, 2008)

You guy's have been a great help, I am still scouring the ad's and am hopefully getting closer to the time when we are ready to buy. The house is being spring cleaned and decorated ready to sell, so hopefully this year will see us writing the next chapter in our lives. It is all so exciting....and a little scary.

Having looked at so many vans and configurations, I have a further question, you guy's all have years of experience of different vans and engine/chassis types, 
What are the pro's and con's of the Merc against the Fiat engines. I have always favoured the Merc, but not sure if I am missing a trick somehow. There seem to be so many vans built on Fiats that I wonder have got it right. Obviously we are looking at vehicles around ten - twelve yr's old, which I am hoping to get many years of happy service out of yet

Once again 

thanks to you all for your help

Wally


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## Guest (Feb 16, 2008)

*Fiat/Merc*

I must admit that I have always thought the same as you about the Mercs, however you have to bear in mind that both of the vehicles that you mention (Merc & Fiat) are built as commercial vehicles and both have a high mileage live span that is unlikely to be used to the full in any motorhome
There are plenty of old Fiat vans around in Europe just like there are plenty of old Mercs.
The Fiat is supposed to have a better ride  as I understand that the tracking is wider, but there must be plenty of good points to be said for the Merc.
I suspect that one of the reasons that most of the Motorhome manufacturers built on the Fiat/ Peugeot chassis is that it costs a little less
Happy hunting for whichever one that you go for


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## t&s (Feb 16, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> You guy's have been a great help, I am still scouring the ad's and am hopefully getting closer to the time when we are ready to buy. The house is being spring cleaned and decorated ready to sell, so hopefully this year will see us writing the next chapter in our lives. It is all so exciting....and a little scary.
> 
> Having looked at so many vans and configurations, I have a further question, you guy's all have years of experience of different vans and engine/chassis types,
> What are the pro's and con's of the Merc against the Fiat engines. I have always favoured the Merc, but not sure if I am missing a trick somehow. There seem to be so many vans built on Fiats that I wonder have got it right. Obviously we are looking at vehicles around ten - twelve yr's old, which I am hoping to get many years of happy service out of yet
> ...



fiats are a cheaper build quality and a cheaper price 
fiat specialise in motorhome chasis more than the others  
but you get what you pay for or can afford 
personaly i would go for as big a vehicle as i could afford 
based on a transit or merc ...if i only had the cash
so i will have to stay with my fiat there not that bad


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## draaiorgel (Apr 2, 2008)

I must agree on all that has been said about the early Merc diesels.
I had an old 207D and bought it with 120,000 miles on the clock, I added another 100,000 miles to it with no problems.
These old motors were the best, not uncommon to go 4 -5 times round the clock.
The most important factor of all as has been said before,
regular oil and filter changes including fuel filter.
The one before that I sold with 350,000 on the clock and still ran beautifully after running it for 12 years.


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## wildman (Apr 2, 2008)

Have heard it said Mercs are good for 650,000 miles, your average diesel 350,000 so you pays your money and takes your choice. My Merc is 1981 and only 97,000 on the clock starts first time runs sweetly and will run on vegetable oil LEGALLY!!!!!! (you can use up to 2500 litre a year and not bother about fuel tax.) Currently I pay 73p per litre.


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## Trevor (Apr 2, 2008)

wildman said:


> l run on vegetable oil LEGALLY!!!!!! (you can use up to 2500 litre a year and not bother about fuel tax.) Currently I pay 73p per litre.



I dont know about your area but there is not a lot of saving to be made from using vegi oil as the price of it is way high now that they know you can run a vehicle on it, all good things come to an end


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## wildman (Apr 2, 2008)

currently 73p per litre is quite a saving, when I get round to refining old chipshop oil it will be free.


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## Trevor (Apr 2, 2008)

wildman said:


> currently 73p per litre is quite a saving, when I get round to refining old chipshop oil it will be free.


Hi Wildman,
A few of my mates have had problems with the stuff from the chip shops and also from a local garage that sells the bio diesel maybe they dont refine it properly


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## guerdeval (Apr 2, 2008)

There's a guy in South Devon who runs a Company called www.bundesvan.co.uk (or .com,I cann't remember), his name is Nick and he sources good quality used vans from his many contacts in UK and Continent, I think he charges over £1000 but it could be money well spent as he has many years experience, also, he sells motorhomes on behalf of people who p/x their vans. On economy I found my previous van (a y2k hymer 694 on 3 axles on a Fiat to return aroung 22-24mpg, my present van is a hymer S820 02reg which gives around 18mpg on a MB sprinter chassis, this is with and without towing a Smart on a trailer, I think the Merc pulls better despite the weight but the Fiat was quieter, I did find the bits around the Fiat to be a lot flimsier though.


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## wildman (Apr 2, 2008)

Trevor said:


> Hi Wildman,
> A few of my mates have had problems with the stuff from the chip shops and also from a local garage that sells the bio diesel maybe they dont refine it properly



Whilst I am told 100% is ok I only use 50% to be on the safe side, I may increase that percentage during the summer. The early Mercs are the best vehicles to use SVO, heck they were originally designed to run on vegetable oil. Refining I am told can be a pig to get right as you have to remove all non veg oil items, batter, water, and finally animal fat. Not as easy as it sounds.


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## Hazy-thoughts (Apr 10, 2008)

Thanks for all the input fellas
Thanks very much for the link Guerdeval  

Lovely looking Hymer S700 on there, anyone want to buy a house by the seaside.........


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