# Boom boom boom boom esso blue !



## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2016)

Just a inquiry really.
Now it's getting Colder, I was wondering how many of us actually used Paraffin OR Oil Heaters & Lamps in their Motorhome/Van ?.
If so,
How Much are they Say Per Hour to run ?.
Do they Smell ?.
Obviously Ventilation is Paramount, But Do the Cause or Cure Condensation ?.
Just How Dangerous are they ?.


I ask as I use to have Oil Lamps on my Boat MANY years ago, & actually Hated them, Frightened to near death to actually use them, But it WAS the norm. So are Newer ones Better/Safer as a Realistic source of Both Heat & Light in our Vehicle Homes ?.

You're Thoughts !.


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## antiquesam (Oct 25, 2016)

I leave a greenhouse paraffin heater in the van over the winter to keep the chill off, but others on the forum tell me it creates condensation, which I certainly remember from my childhood.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2016)

Yeah, I remember the 'Crital' Metal Framework on the Windows RUNNING when a Parafin heater was on over night, But I NOW wonder if this was due to in adequate Ventilation at that time !...

How do you find it in your Motorhome overnight !


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## runnach (Oct 25, 2016)

Anything that burns a flame seems to create condensation

IF you have ehu or can arrange it, a small oil filled radiator is as good as anything to take off the chill

Channa


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2016)

channa said:


> Anything that burns a flame seems to create condensation
> 
> IF you have ehu or can arrange it, a small oil filled radiator is as good as anything to take off the chill
> 
> Channa



Yeah, Absolutely agree By far the best,,,But was just wondering Specifically about Oil or Parafin heating & Lighting nowadays to see if there was any advancement in Safety & Use.


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## Camper Bob (Oct 25, 2016)

If anyone has EHU where they park/store their van in the winter , these tubular heaters work a treat , just put a 13 amp plug on the end of the fitted cable , they'll even stand length ways on the provided wall mounts.  Very cheap too , 40,80,100 watt , thats the same as a light bulb.......

Miscellaneous Heating - Thermostatic Tubular Heater

I've previously bought mine from a company called CEF , Tubular Heaters | City Electrical Factors


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2016)

Yep, Had a Few of the Tube heaters in the past, He to have one in the cupboard under my bed,,,BLISS in the Winter.
But Has/Does ANYONE Use Parafin or Oil Heating recently ?.


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## vwalan (Oct 25, 2016)

i have various parafin heaters here but these days i just use gas lights . i was with a mate years ago that had one in his camper van . i liked it so when i converted my trailer i put some in there . came from an old caravan . 
great bits of kit . light ,heat and if by lakes etc help keep midgies out . they dont like the gas . 
since veritas as stopped doing the mantles i have been using some chinese tie on mantles . not as good as the preformed veritas ones but they work. if it gets really cold i use a thermex catalytic gas heater . but havnt used that for a few years .


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## David Morison (Oct 25, 2016)

I'd be worried about CO with kero or gas, but has anyone thought about a meths burner/stove? As alcohol is not a hydrocarbon I would think that CO is not an issue. The burner from an old Trangia stove with the controller cap on near minimum flame will last for a long time and produce a decent amount of heat, in fact I'm off for a few nights next week so I'll try it out while keeping an eye on the CO monitor. Let you know.


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## runnach (Oct 25, 2016)

David Morison said:


> I'd be worried about CO with kero or gas, but has anyone thought about a meths burner/stove? As alcohol is not a hydrocarbon I would think that CO is not an issue. The burner from an old Trangia stove with the controller cap on near minimum flame will last for a long time and produce a decent amount of heat, in fact I'm off for a few nights next week so I'll try it out while keeping an eye on the CO monitor. Let you know.


 CO is an issue. It is produced from incomplete combustion. ( think spiders webs in burners and lazy flames) I am not convinced the fuel needs to be a hydrocarbon it is more the inefficient combustion

The CO attaches to the haemoglobin in the blood, and prevents the cells from carrying oxygen the amount required for poisioning is not great. With a stove for a cup of tea the effect be neglibile but a heater for a couple of hours ?

If the room is well ventilated the risk obviously seriously diminished , but windows tend to be closed etc when we need heating.

Back to the OP's original question and people do use gas , ethanols etc all produce condensation. Therefore using a de humidifier would perhaps exchange the heat and atmosphere to a sensible comfortable one 

Channa


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2016)

I really don't know about the difference if any of the nasties given off by burning Methalated Spirit or alike etc.
BUT FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE,,,Please Do some research before you DO this,,,& take Two Carbon Monoxide Detectors..
I've heard that adding a drop of water to the methes make it burn 'Cleaner' (Weird !).
But how about Cost ?. Probably up there wit Petrol !.


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## Mick H (Oct 25, 2016)

vwalan said:


> if it gets really cold i use a thermex catalytic gas heater . but havnt used that for a few years .



We too, use a Thermex catalytic gas heater. Trouble is, they are not marketed, anymore, although there is another make available, but I don't know anything about these.
The Thermex has an oxygen depletion sensor, and, because the flame is only like a pilot light, CO is not really a problem, the catalytic heating process being a chemical reaction, just triggered by the small flame. I wouldn't leave it on all night, though.
It does keep the van quite warm, but not excessively so, and uses very little gas, with no battery power required whatsoever.

I would worry about safety, with a paraffin heater, especially CO.


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## FULL TIMER (Oct 25, 2016)

[No message]


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## vwalan (Oct 25, 2016)

[No message]


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## runnach (Oct 25, 2016)

[No message]


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## Robmac (Oct 25, 2016)

channa said:


> I agree with you, but have the reservation not all have a coachbuilt and perhaps a self build that lacks the required ventilation.
> 
> Static Camper , yourself , Neckender and I all worked professionally with LPG as an example if you went to town on most self builds I bet you would have to look too far to find something that falls short of the regs..
> 
> ...



Not sure about others Andy, but my insurance policy states that my gas installation has to be fitted by a quality fitter, and serviced annually by same.

Something that I am quite happy to comply with!


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Not sure about others Andy, but my insurance policy states that my gas installation has to be fitted by a quality fitter, and serviced annually by same.
> 
> Something that I am quite happy to comply with!



Yes, So does mine for Gas.
 But would the same approach or Requirement be necessary if you had Parafin & or Oil for Cooking / Heating I wonder.


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## runnach (Oct 25, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Not sure about others Andy, but my insurance policy states that my gas installation has to be fitted by a quality fitter, and serviced annually by same.
> 
> Something that I am quite happy to comply with!



Static Camper more up to speed on this nowadays I have let my papers lapse. I don't do that much on the aircon and refrigeration anymore although still a cat1 ticket that's valid

Private owned vans are a bit of a weird one, to work on them touring vans and motorhomes you require NO qualifications so the definition of a quality fitter is interesting.

The MCEA for example push their guys as engineers qualified to Acop level  which I was. They cannot work on vans for hire or reward, for that you need to be ACS registered.

You also need to be ACS registered to work on statics.


Heres the rub I worked on 287 statics in France, for a British company , UK based liability insurers. ACS is more expensive than Acops and not recognised in France so Acops it was......

I returned to the UK can't work on statics, tbh for what you can earn for a gas check Aircon I felt the best way to go , also my quals recognised abroad. 

complicated area re qualification is gas 

As for alternative fuels in campervans I would suggest you need to let your insurers know . 

Channa


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## Robmac (Oct 25, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Yes, So does mine for Gas.
> But would the same approach or Requirement be necessary if you had Parafin & or Oil for Cooking / Heating I wonder.



Interesting. My policy reads;

This insurance does not cover loss or damage caused by fire or
explosion arising from the use of heating or cooking equipment,
unless the equipment has been serviced and/or fitted by a CORGI
or HSE registered engineer and a fire extinguisher and/or blanket
is kept in or on the vehicle,

It doesn't mention gas specifically, just heating or cooking equipment and CORGI and HSE.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Interesting. My policy reads;
> 
> This insurance does not cover loss or damage caused by fire or
> explosion arising from the use of heating or cooking equipment,
> ...



That's very odd isn't it, So it 'Kinda' implied that a Corgi Engineer (I thought they have been replaced by Gas Safe or someone like that nowadays !) Must fit say a Diesel Cooker then !. (Like a Blake or Taylor If that's what you have ).


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## Robmac (Oct 25, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> That's very odd isn't it, So it 'Kinda' implied that a Corgi Engineer (I thought they have been replaced by Gas Safe or someone like that nowadays !) Must fit say a Diesel Cooker then !. (Like a Blake or Taylor If that's what you have ).



I'll stick with gas I think. I don't want them to have any chance of wiggling out of a claim!


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## runnach (Oct 25, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Interesting. My policy reads;
> 
> This insurance does not cover loss or damage caused by fire or
> explosion arising from the use of heating or cooking equipment,
> ...



Static Camper will correct me if I am wrong as I said more up to speed on the regs than I am lost heart a little.  But Corgi has been replaced by GasSafe ,,,GasSafe are not really interested in LPG so franchised out to ACS.

What it means to the customer is this ..Any fitter needs to be ACS registered. Acops which 99% of engineers are is not good enough

that's it in a nutshell

Channa


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## runnach (Oct 25, 2016)

I should add not sure how Acs works, but with Acops I had to take an exam on LAV which is leisure accommodation vehicles, I know you have a fetish for boats ROb that was a different module altogether ,,,so moral is don't be scared to ask and see what the guy is actually qualified to do 

Channa


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## colinm (Oct 25, 2016)

When I was a kid we used paraffin and all the rooms it was used in had damp problems.
Up till 15 years ago a rellie used paraffin heaters in a static which had big problems with damp.


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## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2016)

Camper Bob said:


> If anyone has EHU where they park/store their van in the winter , these tubular heaters work a treat , just put a 13 amp plug on the end of the fitted cable , they'll even stand length ways on the provided wall mounts.  Very cheap too , 40,80,100 watt , thats the same as a light bulb.......
> 
> Miscellaneous Heating - Thermostatic Tubular Heater
> 
> I've previously bought mine from a company called CEF , Tubular Heaters | City Electrical Factors



Must be old time gas element light bulbs at that wattage or should i call them heaters,keep up with the times me lad.
Also dont use the tube heaters standing on end as it will get to hot,keep it level.
I use a 450w convector on a timer which dries the air, £11.95 ebay.


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## Robmac (Oct 25, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Must be old time gas element light bulbs at that wattage or should i call them heaters,keep up with the times me lad.
> Also dont use the tube heaters standing on end as it will get to hot,keep it level.
> I use a 450w convector on a timer which dries the air, £11.95 ebay.



Well I didn't know that Trev.

We've had one in the office at home standing upright, it's not been switched off in 10 years!


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## colinm (Oct 25, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Well I didn't know that Trev.
> 
> We've had one in the office at home standing upright, it's not been switched off in 10 years!



There are two types of tube heater, for both types it is recommended for safety reasons they are mounted horizontally.


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## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Well I didn't know that Trev.
> 
> We've had one in the office at home standing upright, it's not been switched off in 10 years!



Some tell you that in instructions because the heat goes to top end and not equal along the length,halogen strip bulbs do the same though there old hat now.
As for gas when i were a lad hovis in hand we stayed in a c/van at groomsport co down and it had gas lights and heaters,maybe thats why im half daft now.:rolleyes2:


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## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2016)

I still have 2 aladin parafin heaters from our old house in the sixties,used them in upstairs bath room to stop nuts dropping of in winter.
Not sure about condensation but the stink was wild,heaters that is not me.


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## antiquesam (Oct 26, 2016)

What do you suggest for someone that hasn't got EHU over the periods she's laid up in winter.


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## mikejay (Oct 26, 2016)

Had one of these for about 15yrs now got it for about £100 when b&q were selling them off. Inverter 6003 4.0kW Liquid Fuel Heater + FREE FUEL | Domestic Liquid Fuel Heaters | Heaters i supose you could use it in a van running off an inverter as it only uses 12w of electric but we use it as quick heat at home. 


Mike


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## IanH (Oct 26, 2016)

*Parafin*

For every gallon of paraffin burned, one gallon of water is created.
This water will remain in the vehicle unless you have so much ventilation that means there'll be no significant heat at all!


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## seadogjon (Oct 26, 2016)

mikejay said:


> Had one of these for about 15yrs now got it for about £100 when b&q were selling them off. Inverter 6003 4.0kW Liquid Fuel Heater + FREE FUEL | Domestic Liquid Fuel Heaters | Heaters i supose you could use it in a van running off an inverter as it only uses 12w of electric but we use it as quick heat at home.
> 
> 
> Mike



Chana got it right ,old parrafin burners inefficient..we use 3.2kw inverter these are rated about 99.9 percent efficient we run on central heating oil.
no smell and cheap to run ,in static ,
if you tried to use in a motor home you would be roasted in minutes even on minimum setting,,jon


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2016)

seadogjon said:


> Chana got it right ,old parrafin burners inefficient..we use 3.2kw inverter these are rated about 99.9 percent efficient we run on central heating oil.
> no smell and cheap to run ,in static ,
> if you tried to use in a motor home you would be roasted in minutes even on minimum setting,,jon



Now these are more like it,,Yes (Thanks to Channa also)
So you run them on Kerosene Heating oil ?. Are they TRULY minimal smell & efficient ?. Automatic & Safe as the advertiser suggests ?.

What in Both of your views are the BAD points about this heater ?.

I'm seriously tempted !.

Do you want to sell yours lol lol.


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## Robmac (Oct 26, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Now these are more like it,,Yes (Thanks to Channa also)
> So you run them on Kerosene Heating oil ?. Are they TRULY minimal smell & efficient ?. Automatic & Safe as the advertiser suggests ?.
> 
> What in Both of your views are the BAD points about this heater ?.
> ...



Unfortunately, 240v only.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Unfortunately, 240v only.


Yeah, I noticed that, (Thanks though),  But I 'think' it's only a very small drain at about 15-20 watts I expect, & I've got a 12v / 240v inverter that is on permanent anyway !. So this could fit the bill nicely,,,

(Yeah I know !)


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## runnach (Oct 26, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Now these are more like it,,Yes (Thanks to Channa also)
> So you run them on Kerosene Heating oil ?. Are they TRULY minimal smell & efficient ?. Automatic & Safe as the advertiser suggests ?.
> 
> What in Both of your views are the BAD points about this heater ?.
> ...



I couldn't tell you how efficient they are I have never used one. As per safety it does have a carbon monoxide detector which reinforces my theory re incorrect combustion is the source of CO poisioning rather than the fuel. So that needs to be a consideration whatever you do.

As for Antiquesams question re what to do without ehu , then I see it pretty stuck. To reduce condensation a lot of people swear by bowls of salt, or cat litter which draws the moisture from the air.

That in itself makes perfect sense but there is a bone of contention ( isn't there always?) In a properly vented van motorhome or static , with the gas drop outs skylights etc you have airflow . The air that replaces that where moisture extracted has moisture so back to square one once the Kitty litter has absorbed what it can.

We should all emigrate over winter it should become law !! :anyone:

Channa


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2016)

Cheers for that,
& I agree, I'm emigrating for 4-6 months in a few weeks time. To Beautiful Scotland !.


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## runnach (Oct 26, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Cheers for that,
> & I agree, I'm emigrating for 4-6 months in a few weeks time. To Beautiful Scotland !.



I can think of far worse places, brisk walk around Loch Morlich in the snow is good for the constitution that man !!!...

I am envious already, I love Scotland 

Channa


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2016)

Absolutely Agree,,
I've been to Scotland & her islands over the Winter period many times throughout the years, But Always in Boats as a Permanent Livaboard.
(Oh, & in a semi converted Luton Van on one occasion)
This will be the first time in a Motorhome !.
& although it's got a gas Heater, I like the idea of a Backup as a Emergency OR if as good / Better - then as a Night heater to make my on board Gas go further !.


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## seadogjon (Oct 26, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Now these are more like it,,Yes (Thanks to Channa also)
> So you run them on Kerosene Heating oil ?. Are they TRULY minimal smell & efficient ?. Automatic & Safe as the advertiser suggests ?.
> 
> What in Both of your views are the BAD points about this heater ?.
> ...



Bad points?
expensive to buy.
you get a whif of kero when start and when u switch off cant smell anything when running.
very safe will shut down if u knock it ,if it overheats.or if the air is bad .
costs me about seven quid a week in winter to run it hard at about 38p a litre ish at moment and its instant heat.
like said wont be suitable for camper ,to hot , you would have to take fuel cannister out on the move or it would slosh everywhere.
would never sell mine lol, best and cheapest heating ive ever run..jon


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## mikejay (Oct 26, 2016)

When i got mine i did try it on an inverter in my van and as seadogjon says it was too hot as when you first switch it on it goes to full output for the first 20 minutes then goes off or lowers the fan and flame to a minimum. Would never sell mine as we use it every winter and use paraffin extra from caldo in it so it works out cheaper than the tozane fuel. No smell when up and running but a puff of smoke at startup and shut down.

Mike


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2016)

Thanks Guys,,,It's BRILLIANT to be able to actually 'Chat' to others that use products that we may be interested in.
Ok, I have been on the Web site, & looked at the smaller 5006 3.1kw max model.
So -
I understand that it's Cool to the touch on it's Side / Back walls !, Yes ?.
Understanding that a Puff or two on Start n Stop happens. No worries.
Can run on Domestic Heating Kerosene or Parafin !, Yes ?. Or what else & what's cheapest ?.
Runs on eco setting for around 8-10 hrs a Lt !, Yes ?.
Now then,,,The Fule tank !, is this not sealed ?. if say half full would it spill out if I went over a bump or around a corner ?.
I actually have a PERFECT place to site it, Metal Base, & perfect external clean air supply, with High level Roof vent above. (Think Disused area the size of a Shower Cubicle with No Door).
(TBH I would ofcourse prefer to empty it anyway when traveling).
I am this close to ordering !.


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## seadogjon (Oct 26, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Thanks Guys,,,It's BRILLIANT to be able to actually 'Chat' to others that use products that we may be interested in.
> Ok, I have been on the Web site, & looked at the smaller 5006 3.1kw max model.
> So -
> I understand that it's Cool to the touch on it's Side / Back walls !, Yes ?.
> ...



Take no notice of fuel consumption claims depends how cold it is ,
yes ive run on heating kero for about 4 years
mine doesnt like being moved around to much just picking up out the way for hoover it sometimes splutters abit gotta take burner nozle out and blow it through ,seems to get a bit of an airlock ,only a five minute job ,
also my lass put hers in the boot to lend her son and there was kero every where ,,forgot to take tank out..
and i always switch it off before i move it

you would probably need to empty the fixed fuel tank as well before driving ,,bit of a pain,

the fuel tank u just fill turn upside and drop it in
gotta say as much as i love these heaters i would NOT put one in camper..jon


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## mikejay (Oct 26, 2016)

This is my fuel tank it is self sealing so can be taken out moved and stored.



Mike


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2016)

Some BRILLIANT user posts there, Thanks Guys.


As it's the intention of using it in The Nest (My Livaboard Motorhome).I think this is maybe NOT a good option.
I did earmark a small miniature Multifuel stove for the available space, but Had to explore Liquid fueled heaters.

God I miss my Taylor Diesel fed Heater,,,but they are just SO blinking expensive !!! 
Love love love them !


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## seadogjon (Oct 26, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Some BRILLIANT user posts there, Thanks Guys.
> 
> 
> As it's the intention of using it in The Nest (My Livaboard Motorhome).I think this is maybe NOT a good option.
> ...



Wise move ,i put mine on a few mins ago pretty chilly out,set on12 degrees its already showing 20 with doors open to bath and bedroom,,static,,
in the motorhome it would probably be thirty..good luck,,jon


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2016)

Maybe I could put it outside on the verge, & open my side door lol lol


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## Robmac (Oct 26, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> ..................God I miss my Taylor Diesel fed Heater,,,but they are just SO blinking expensive !!!
> Love love love them !



I love the Taylors heaters as well.

I always think that They are a bit 'retro' looking though and probably better suited (aesthetically) in the cabin of a classic boat rather than a modern motorhome.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2016)

Robmac said:


> I love the Taylors heaters as well.
> 
> I always think that They are a bit 'retro' looking though and probably better suited (aesthetically) in the cabin of a classic boat rather than a modern motorhome.


I agree, I actually installed the same model in my last 4 Boats that I lived on (79D).
Loved them.


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## FULL TIMER (Oct 26, 2016)

If you want something just as a back up how about one of these http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A7x9...-heatpal/RK=0/RS=0JZ_KezKskTZlyosOgGE2p1cLxs-
back up heater and / or cooker. used with bio ethanol virtually no odour and no poisonous by products when burning.


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## Robmac (Oct 26, 2016)

FULL TIMER said:


> If you want something just as a back up how about one of these http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A7x9...-heatpal/RK=0/RS=0JZ_KezKskTZlyosOgGE2p1cLxs-
> back up heater and / or cooker. used with bio ethanol virtually no odour and no poisonous by products when burning.



I've heard good things about those Mark. Not sure what they are like condensation wise?


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## FULL TIMER (Oct 26, 2016)

not sure about the condensation but shouldn't be to much of a problem especially in a modern motorhome with the proper ventilation etc, we have actually used a bog standard table top bio ethanol fire from B&Q before in the van didn't notice much at all, ours would never heat the place properly but in an emergency it takes the chill off, I would imagine these Origo's would be much better they also do various cooking hobs  as well. each burner unit is supposed to be 2kw


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 27, 2016)

Thanks Fulltimer,
Yeah I have seen those in various catalogs over the years myself from my Boating days, I actually forgot about these !.
Don't know what they look like inside, or how they work though, will check compatible Fuel types & LPH. It looks like a very simple Base & Lid affair doesn't it. & as you say, you can cook on it if you had to !

Yeah worth thinking about !.
Anyone actually got one of these ?.


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## FULL TIMER (Oct 27, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Thanks Fulltimer,
> Yeah I have seen those in various catalogs over the years myself from my Boating days, I actually forgot about these !.
> Don't know what they look like inside, or how they work though, will check compatible Fuel types & LPH. It looks like a very simple Base & Lid affair doesn't it. & as you say, you can cook on it if you had to !
> 
> ...



They are basically spirit burners you can use Meths but I prefer bio ethanol seems to burn cleaner , they are very simple  to use you fill up the base which is full of a fire retardant wool type stuff you can even hold it upside down when full and it won't spill, there is a flap which slides over the hole to adjust the flame etc, there are some reviews over on youtube, bio ethanol is also very safe to store.
Origo 5100 Heat Pal - YouTube


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 27, 2016)

Hey,,,They seem very Good,,Safe & Easy.
I'm impressed !.
So how long will say a Ltr of Ethanol last burning on say a low heat ?. (Using it as a backup heater ).
How much is Ethanol to buy ?.


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## FULL TIMER (Oct 27, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Hey,,,They seem very Good,,Safe & Easy.
> I'm impressed !.
> So how long will say a Ltr of Ethanol last burning on say a low heat ?. (Using it as a backup heater ).
> How much is Ethanol to buy ?.



From memory the origo  burns for around 4.5 hours flat out on one fill which is 1.2 litre. 
as for prices it's been a while since I bought any which was at my local B&Q, here's a rough idea though  worth trawling the net but obviously a local supplier will save a lot of postage costs
Bioethanol Fuel - Collect


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