# Generator advice please...



## Charlie (Feb 13, 2015)

We rare new to "wilding" and the other half wants to buy a small generator in case we get stuck somewhere...any ideas guys?


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## asel (Feb 13, 2015)

Dont bother with gennie, in emergency just start your engine and let it charge your batteries.

It willprobably use less fuel than a gennie.


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## Kath (Feb 13, 2015)

Or get yourself a solar panel, but as said above, forget the gennie!


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## shortcircuit (Feb 13, 2015)

asel said:


> Dont bother with gennie, in emergency just start your engine and let it charge your batteries.
> 
> It willprobably use less fuel than a gennie.



As I understand it once the starter battery is charged the alternator reduces its output so very little charge to leisure batteries needing engine to run for a long time and therefore very inefficient.
A small generator can either be connected direct to the leisure battery or to the far more efficient on board charger.

Have you any idea what you wish to power from the generator?


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## Siimplyloco (Feb 13, 2015)

I've owned a Honda EU2.0i, 'probably the best genny in the world'...but I sold it two years ago after finding that not only did I not use it very much, it was heavy, smelly, and other people wanted to give you welly!
Solar energy is the way to go.
John


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## n brown (Feb 13, 2015)

get a gennie about 600 watts, a suitcase gennie,but i would advise getting a decent make ,as the cheap ones can be really hard to start after standing for a while- i like hondas myself,i'd rather have an old secondhand one than a new cheapo


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## Siimplyloco (Feb 13, 2015)

n brown said:


> get a gennie about 600 watts, a suitcase gennie,but i would advise getting a decent make ,as the cheap ones can be really hard to start after standing for a while- i like hondas myself,i'd rather have an old secondhand one than a new cheapo



Screwfix sell a small and light gennie at sensible money. It gets great reviews. 
BTW the Electrobloc controls the alternator feed to both hab and starter batteries, so there is no need to worry if you haf vun of zees!...
John

Impax IM800I 700W Inverter Generator 230V | Generators | Screwfix.com


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## sparrks (Feb 13, 2015)

shortcircuit said:


> As I understand it once the starter battery is charged the alternator reduces its output so very little charge to leisure batteries needing engine to run for a long time and therefore very inefficient.
> A small generator can either be connected direct to the leisure battery or to the far more efficient on board charger.
> 
> Have you any idea what you wish to power from the generator?



The problem with that line of thought is that the average battery drain per engine start is 2%, so assuming you stop with a fully charged starter battery, when you next start the engine if it starts easily then very little charge would be put in either battery.

Charging of the battery is determined by how depleted the battery is and the voltage you are charging it at. If the leisure battery was nearly flat and you used connecting cable of a good size to avoid volt drop then then when the engine is started the depleted battery will drag down the voltage on the starter battery, the alternator will 'see' this load and charge both. If the split wire cables are very thin then the charge rate will be poor.


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## tim m154 (Feb 13, 2015)

Plus one on the solar panels, no noise or fumes. Also in the winter keep a jump lead across both batteries and keep the van battery topped up, done this for the last three years and no problems.


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## shortcircuit (Feb 13, 2015)

sparrks said:


> The problem with that line of thought is that the average battery drain per engine start is 2%, so assuming you stop with a fully charged starter battery, when you next start the engine if it starts easily then very little charge would be put in either battery.
> 
> Charging of the battery is determined by how depleted the battery is and the voltage you are charging it at. If the leisure battery was nearly flat and you used connecting cable of a good size to avoid volt drop then then when the engine is started the depleted battery will drag down the voltage on the starter battery, the alternator will 'see' this load and charge both. If the split wire cables are very thin then the charge rate will be poor.



Are split charge relays not voltage sensing and only activate once the starter battery has been charged?  Appears very simple and I ask why B2B chargers are fitted?


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## Siimplyloco (Feb 13, 2015)

shortcircuit;502721SNIP
 Appears very simple and I ask why B2B chargers are fitted?[/QUOTE said:
			
		

> B2B chargers are akin to Yakult: not really necessary but prove the power of marketing!
> John


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## Charlie (Feb 13, 2015)

*Thanks for advice re gennies*



shortcircuit said:


> As I understand it once the starter battery is charged the alternator reduces its output so very little charge to leisure batteries needing engine to run for a long time and therefore very inefficient.
> A small generator can either be connected direct to the leisure battery or to the far more efficient on board charger.
> 
> Have you any idea what you wish to power from the generator?



We have read all the previous threads on this in the archives..I think we are just a little nervous about our real first wilding week. After last years "two days here and there" we so enjoyed the freedom of not using sites we want to do more and go for longer this year. (But found we were running short on power after 2 days) During the winter we have installed a 80w solar panel and an extra 85amp/hr leisure battery (so now have 2 split charged) use electric for lighting and maybe a couple of hours of tv occasionally and the fridge.


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## shortcircuit (Feb 13, 2015)

siimplyloco said:


> B2B chargers are akin to Yakult: not really necessary but prove the power of marketing!
> John



I am sure Stirling power will agree John?


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## Charlie (Feb 13, 2015)

*Gennie...*

Good advice thank you... Yep I had forgotten about water pump...The "extra" leisure battery is in addition to the engine battery..so 1 engine battery and two leisure batteries plus the 80w solar panel. I am sure in the summer it will be fine but this time of year and in this weather...doubtful maybe.


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## sparrks (Feb 13, 2015)

shortcircuit said:


> Are split charge relays not voltage sensing and only activate once the starter battery has been charged?  Appears very simple and I ask why B2B chargers are fitted?



Split charge relays can be volt sensing and will switch on at the  predetermined voltage - usually around 14v which is the output voltage  of the alternator.



siimplyloco said:


> B2B chargers are akin to Yakult: not really necessary but prove the power of marketing!
> John



Can't vouch for Yakult, but can for my Sterling B2B.

Not sure of the very latest cars with their high dependency on electrical sytems, but the charging systems of cars and vans in the past were never designed to charge the starter battery to 100% capacity, there is or was no need. If the vehicle engine was running all day then the battery would get close to being fully charged but most are not run all day.
My B2B can charge at up to 14.8v which is higher than an alternator output so can put a greater current in over a shorter period of time and it also incorperates a 4 stage charger for fully charged batteries.


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## Siimplyloco (Feb 13, 2015)

shortcircuit said:


> I am sure Stirling power will agree John?



*Definition for Marketing and Sales*. Marketing identifies or_ creates_ a need: Sales fulfills that need. Both Yakult and Sterling have grasped this!
If British MH manufacturers fitted sophisticated units like Electroblocs which sense leisure battery voltage when on the move, then Sterling would not be selling many B2B chargers...
John


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## Obanboy666 (Feb 13, 2015)

I use my Honda EU20i and only have to use it over the winter months due to lack of daylight for my panel and higher power usage when wilding. Once the longer days arrive I manage with an 80 watt folding solar panel and 2 x 105 amp batteries unless I need to use the microwave.
If you do decide to go down the genny route, Honda the best imho. Mine is used every week at home, on a shoot and the motorhome. Always starts first time and 100% reliable.
Regarding comments about smell, I have both the genny and petrol in purpose made heavy duty carry bags that prevent any petrol smell.


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## sparrks (Feb 13, 2015)

siimplyloco said:


> *Definition for Marketing and Sales*. Marketing identifies or_ creates_ a need: Sales fulfills that need. Both Yakult and Sterling have grasped this!
> If British MH manufacturers fitted sophisticated units like Electroblocs which sense leisure battery voltage when on the move, then Sterling would not be selling many B2B chargers...
> John



What benefits would an Electrobloc have over a B2B? they look like totally different beasts.


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## FULL TIMER (Feb 13, 2015)

Back to the original question, I have a Hyundai HY1000si http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hyundai-HY1000Si-inverter-Generator-portable/dp/B0034UNGL8 great little generator that has not let me down yet, I  mainly use it for re charging the battery bank when at meets or places with no hook up I just plug the mains lead into it and let the on board charger do it's work only takes about an hour and a half, while it's on also charge the laptops and phones etc.


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## GRWXJR (Feb 13, 2015)

n brown said:


> get a gennie about 600 watts, a suitcase gennie,but i would advise getting a decent make ,as the cheap ones can be really hard to start after standing for a while- i like hondas myself,i'd rather have an old secondhand one than a new cheapo



Biggest problem with poor starting after standing is the unleaded fuel.  It goes off and can evaporate and leaves a varnish like residue behind.  The galleries and jets are so small in these little engines that it gums up the works so they either wont start or stutter and hunt badly.

To prevent this turn off the manual fuel tap while its running with no load on, and let it run the carb dry.  If no tap, drain the tank and then do the offload runout.

It'll make it a hell of a lot easier to start next time you want to re-commision it into service.

Or.... simply start the thing up for a few minutes regularly instead.  Just dont leave it with juice in the carb!


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## Siimplyloco (Feb 13, 2015)

sparrks said:


> What benefits would an Electrobloc have over a B2B? they look like totally different beasts.



Quote" The Battery-to-Battery (B2B) charger is a sophisticated, multi-stage charger that connects between the vehicle battery and the leisure/auxiliary battery. It charges the leisure battery to the maximum capacity possible as fast as possible, using surplus power taken from the alternator, via the vehicle battery."

An Electrobloc -and most other German MH units- does exactly the same thing, but takes a little longer as it doesn't belt 50 amps into a little 85Ah battery. It looks to me like the B2B was invented to compensate for the shortcomings of certain British MH and caravan systems.

 I might add that I have a lot of respect for Sterling products: I have their Digital Alternator Controller on my boat which does much the same thing as a B2B, feeding a 400Ah bank, and I've just fitted Sterling 1600W PSW inverter in Hugo.
John


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## pheasantplucker (Feb 13, 2015)

Bought a Kipor 1KW suitcase gennie. Think they use Honda engines.
Used it a little when we go to festivals and camp ion a field for 5 days, about an hour or two every other day just for confidence rather than need, although when at a festival not a lot of time is spent in the van. Just used the hook up lead to plug it into the van. People commented on the low noise level. Also used it direct on the mobility scooter charger. Probably a dear way to charge but when we were in France the place we had to walk to was uphill all the way and didn't want to end up pushing the scooter.

We put 120W solar on the roof in October and haven't had to do the usual fortnightly 20 mile run to charge the batteries since. Not been far to see how much better that is yet. 

The solar is fine but won't provide me with a 240v source if needed, unless I plug an inverter into the 12v.
I now also have a 12v - 24v charger for the scooter, so all bases should now be covered.

The gennie is more of an insurance policy for us, but have been glad of it on occasion.


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## Obanboy666 (Feb 13, 2015)

GRWXJR said:


> Biggest problem with poor starting after standing is the unleaded fuel.  It goes off and can evaporate and leaves a varnish like residue behind.  The galleries and jets are so small in these little engines that it gums up the works so they either wont start or stutter and hunt badly.
> 
> To prevent this turn off the manual fuel tap while its running with no load on, and let it run the carb dry.  If no tap, drain the tank and then do the offload runout.
> 
> ...



I put additive into my unleaded and to date no issues with starting. I've left it 6 weeks and it still started after 4/5 pulls.


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## sparrks (Feb 13, 2015)

siimplyloco said:


> Quote" The Battery-to-Battery (B2B) charger is a sophisticated, multi-stage charger that connects between the vehicle battery and the leisure/auxiliary battery. It charges the leisure battery to the maximum capacity possible as fast as possible, using surplus power taken from the alternator, via the vehicle battery."
> 
> An Electrobloc -and most other German MH units- does exactly the same thing, but takes a little longer as it doesn't belt 50 amps into a little 85Ah battery. It looks to me like the B2B was invented to compensate for the shortcomings of certain British MH and caravan systems.
> 
> ...



Maybe I wouldn't want to 'upgrade' from a Electrobloc to a B2B, but if starting afresh I would stick with the B2B with a couple of solar panels


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## Barnacle (Feb 13, 2015)

Several years ago I did a course on Suzuki outboard motors, both 2 stroke and 4 stroke and up to 225hp. 
We were told then that unleaded petrol starts losing it octane value and going stale 6 weeks after it is refined. 
I have worked on outboards, lawn mowers and generators and frequently get them in with bad fuel in their tanks which makes them a pig to start, if and when they do there is a horrible smell, very like burning varnish coming from them. 
As someone already said, it always wise to run the carburettor empty if not being used for a while and also to drain the whole tank if not getting used for months on end.


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## oppy (Feb 13, 2015)

This is probably another of my 'stoopid questions' but--------------------would connecting jump leads from the van battery to the leisure one and then running the engine provide sufficient charge for the more cash strapped among us ??  eg me !!


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## sparrks (Feb 13, 2015)

oppy said:


> This is probably another of my 'stoopid questions' but--------------------would connecting jump leads from the van battery to the leisure one and then running the engine provide sufficient charge for the more cash strapped among us ??  eg me !!



Most jump leads are thicker than the average split charge cable and if the leads are secure (low resistance) with good connections you should get a better charge for an equal amount of time than using thinner cable. However, the positive cable (jump leads) should be fused at either end just in case you get careless with one of them and I guess it's not very practical either.


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## jagmanx (Feb 14, 2015)

*Genny or Jumpstarter*



siimplyloco said:


> Screwfix sell a small and light gennie at sensible money. It gets great reviews.
> BTW the Electrobloc controls the alternator feed to both hab and starter batteries, so there is no need to worry if you haf vun of zees!...
> John
> 
> Impax IM800I 700W Inverter Generator 230V | Generators | Screwfix.com



Genny OK for emergency especially if cheap such as this one. but all the usual disadvantages

AS others say solar is best
ALSO for emergency I have one of these
5 in 1 Power Station with Air Compressor | Maplin

Brilliant as backup as it will start my Diesel engine if main Batttery is low
Also Worklight and air 
Invertor needs to be used with care but will be OK for mobile phone
Also has 12v output (cigarette lighter socket)


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## phillybarbour (Feb 14, 2015)

Gennie? It's like everything else it all depends what you do with your van. I have a Honda i20 it's brilliant and does a great job of providing 240v whenever I need or want it, and for me more importantly charges the system when skiing with little sunlight and deep snow on the roof. ps you use a lot of power at -10 when it's dark at 4.45pm.


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## jagmanx (Feb 14, 2015)

*Indeed*



phillybarbour said:


> Gennie? It's like everything else it all depends what you do with your van. I have a Honda i20 it's brilliant and does a great job of providing 240v whenever I need or want it, and for me more importantly charges the system when skiing with little sunlight and deep snow on the roof. ps you use a lot of power at -10 when it's dark at 4.45pm.



For prolonged use in winter then EHU or Genny
EHU at say £4 a (winter day) for 100 days =£400 That is just for 1 year
Obviously I have not taken into account Fuel for Genny but If thats your camping style then payout for a medium plus genny


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## TinTin (Feb 14, 2015)

If you do decide a generator is the ay to go then I would advise one thing above all others. 
Do NOT buy a 2 stroke one.


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## asel (Feb 15, 2015)

shortcircuit said:


> As I understand it once the starter battery is charged the alternator reduces its output so very little charge to leisure batteries needing engine to run for a long time and therefore very inefficient.
> A small generator can either be connected direct to the leisure battery or to the far more efficient on board charger.
> 
> Have you any idea what you wish to power from the generator?



On tickover our alternator puts between 30 and 100 amps into the leisure batteries.


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## sparrks (Feb 15, 2015)

asel said:


> On tickover our alternator puts between 30 and 100 amps into the leisure batteries.



Must be a large battery bank and then for a short period of time


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## shortcircuit (Feb 15, 2015)

asel said:


> On tickover our alternator puts between 30 and 100 amps into the leisure batteries.



Have you measured this? The standard cable installed will not take 100 amps, or will the fuse.


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## 2cv (Feb 15, 2015)

I think that better than investing in a generator would be to make a van energy efficient. For example LEDs use a fraction of the traditional lighting methods, as do efficient modern heaters.
If you must have a generator it certainly needs to be treated very carefully Man jumped into canal after 'fire ball' on canal boat - General Boating - Canal World Discussion Forums


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## Obanboy666 (Feb 15, 2015)

My Honda EU20i has the same setup. If low on oil it will stop / not start. An easy check is when attempting to start when low on oil a small warning light switches on when the starter is pulled.
Mine appears to use very little oil and never requires topping up between services.


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## Fazerloz (Feb 15, 2015)

Obanboy666 said:


> My Honda EU20i has the same setup. If low on oil it will stop / not start. An easy check is when attempting to start when low on oil a small warning light switches on when the starter is pulled.
> Mine appears to use very little oil and never requires topping up between services.



Its a HONDA. :cheers:


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## Fazerloz (Feb 15, 2015)

Our eu20i Honda runs up to 18hrs a day under load when working shows and never requires oil between oil changes.


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## molly 2 (Feb 15, 2015)

Charlie said:


> We rare new to "wilding" and the other half wants to buy a small generator in case we get stuck somewhere...any ideas guys?


 Is she thinking about her hair drier and curling tongs.presuming you're  other half is female


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## Charlie (Feb 22, 2015)

*Nope..no hairdryer*



molly 2 said:


> Is she thinking about her hair drier and curling tongs.presuming you're  other half is female




Nope, no hairdryer or curling tongs...hubby doesn't use them either hehe


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