# Gas - switch off or leave on when driving?



## wildebus (Dec 16, 2020)

I know some motorhomes have a recommendation that Gas should be turned off at the bottles when on the move.  And others say it is ok to leave on as they have some system or other that permits the gas to be left on.

How do you know which 'class' your motorhome sits in?
What would be the recommendation for a 2008 Autotrail?


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## jagmanx (Dec 16, 2020)

Stay safe..turn it off !


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## argoose (Dec 16, 2020)

Off


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## Nabsim (Dec 16, 2020)

I only ever turn mine off when I fill up. My bottles will shut off in a crash or if a pipe ruptures


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## trevskoda (Dec 16, 2020)

Turn mine of at bottle. alugas refillable.


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## jann (Dec 16, 2020)

Always leave it on except when on ferries


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## wildebus (Dec 16, 2020)

People are saying  "turn it off"
People are saying "leave it on"

What I was hoping for was people would reply not with just a one liner but actually an response based on fact or documentation, otherwise it is just an opinion without substance to be blunt.

Thanks to Nabsim who made his reply together with the rational behind it  (and he has a Giest Motorhome, so that likely covers the policy of that make?)


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## colinm (Dec 16, 2020)

We have fitted the 'Crash Safe' system, or whatever it's called nowadays.
The high pressure pigtails have valves which shut if the flow is too high such as when the pigtail is ripped apart in a crash, or some other catastrophic failure, and the regulator has a inertia operated valve similar to that on vehicle fuel systems.
I do turn off the gas at cylinder when van is not in use. AFAIK the system complies with French regs for gas shut offs when vehicle is being driven.


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## GreggBear (Dec 16, 2020)

I always turn mine off when not in use, just to be safe. My locker is near the cooker, which is the only gas appliance in my build so easy to do. Would always reccomend turning off while driving, even with a crashsafe system you can't predict the outcome of any collision....


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## mfw (Dec 16, 2020)

Only turn mine off when refuelling or for ferry whilst i using it


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## Snapster (Dec 16, 2020)

We have only ever turned the gas off while travelling when we had VW’s in the ‘80’s and 90’s. 
Otherwise, we only used to turn it off when on the tunnel. 
Our latest van has a crash protection system fitted which allows it to be driven, officially, with the gas left on. 
Driving with the gas on without some sort of crash protection system is probably against some regulations and certainly against recommendations. 
Now we have the system, I don’t think I’d feel as safe driving a van without one fitted and the gas turned on.


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## Obanboy666 (Dec 16, 2020)

Only turn off when parked up on drive.
Motorhome has gas safe system and the Truma heating can be used when on the move, something i have never done but my friend often has his on.


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## wildebus (Dec 16, 2020)

Obanboy666 said:


> Only turn off when parked up on drive.
> Motorhome has gas safe system and the Truma heating can be used when on the move, something i have never done but my friend often has his on.


Off on Drive as you are on EHU I am guessing?


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## n brown (Dec 16, 2020)

i would advise anyone who has any concerns whatsoever about travelling with the gas on to just turn it off . instant peace of mind


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## Obanboy666 (Dec 16, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Off on Drive as you are on EHU I am guessing?


On EHU with timer set for a few hours a day.


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## tidewatcher (Dec 16, 2020)

Ex sailor still instilled with gas paranoia  Definitely off. If you have ever seen a yachtie operating a bilge pump with no water coming out of the outlet then you would know what I mean!!


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## r4dent (Dec 16, 2020)

If you don't have a crash sensor valve the gas  MUST be turned off to travel  

If you have a crash sensor the gas  MAY be left on,  but I personally always turn it off even though I have a crash sensor system.

If you do leave the gas on you MUST switch the gas off before entering a filling station.

If you do leave the gas on you MUST switch the gas off before using a ferry or the Chunnel or certain road tunnels.

If you use run on 12v whilst travelling and set the fridge to "Auto" make sure there is a 15 minute delay before the AES switches to gas. 

The crash senor valve  is either located between the bottle and the regulator or is build into the regulator.  Check the components to see if you have one.

With motor homes as of construction year 01/2007  a safety shut-off device must be provided that prevents gas from inadvertently escaping if a line breaks in the event of an accident.  However, someone may have replaced / removed it to sort out a fault.  Checking is the ONLY way to be sure.

See also https://www.truma.com/uk/en/faq/operate-truma-appliances-while-driving








.


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## n brown (Dec 16, 2020)

tidewatcher said:


> Ex sailor still instilled with gas paranoia  Definitely off. If you have ever seen a yachtie operating a bilge pump with no water coming out of the outlet then you would know what I mean!!


we had a boat explosion in Bristol harbour not long ago . the owner obviously neglected to drill drop-out holes


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## TeamRienza (Dec 16, 2020)

There is a humorous story told, authenticity dubious, of the boat in the harbour which had a gas leak. The gas of course being heavier than air gathered in the bilges. Bystanders were bemused to see two people carefully bringing buckets up from the cabin and carefully emptying ‘nothing’ over the side.

As a yottie most of my life, I always gave the bilge pump a few extra strokes after it stopped shifting water in the hope that it would remove any accumulation of gas.

Davy


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## UFO (Dec 16, 2020)

After the failure of two expensive Truma SecuMotion regulators I fitted a simple Cavagna 424RV regulator. I asked GAS IT this question in February 2019.

I do not use any gas appliances while driving but it is convienent to turn the gas on at the cylinder at the start of a trip and off at the end - as opposed to everytime I stop and start driving.  Reading the specificications on your web site it appears that it is safe to drive with the gas turned on at the cylinder.
1) The Gas outlet has a large flow capacity and is fitted with a full excess flow valve meaning the tank will shut off automatically if the pigtail bursts or the bottle is removed.  Under EN1949:2011 regulation, this GAS IT Plus bottle does not need a expensive secumotion type regulator to use your appliances whilst driving (if the appliances are approved for use whilst driving )
https://www.gasit.co.uk/leisure-gas...13kg-gas-it-plus-refillable-gas-cylinder.html
Please confirm. 

The reply from Nick was 

Yes all GAS IT Plus bottles have the automatic excess flow valve fitted, that’s why the vehicle manufacturers fitted our GAS IT Plus bottles, so as long as the vehicle is certified to allows you to use the heating whilst your travelling then under 1949 a GAS IT Plus gas cylinder with the excess flow valve is acceptable and perfectly legal.

The only thing I can’t pass comment to is if your insurance company would accept you using your heating whilst travelling even if the British and European written Standard EN1949, which all accommodation vehicle have to be built to, states is to be one of only 2 options as an acceptable practice. Insurance companies are a funny animal and whilst I’ve never heard it being a problem I’d either not use the heating whilst your travelling or if you want to ask them first.


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## wildebus (Dec 16, 2020)

r4dent said:


> .....
> With motor homes as of construction year 01/2007  a safety shut-off device must be provided that prevents gas from inadvertently escaping if a line breaks in the event of an accident.  However, someone may have replaced / removed it to sort out a fault.  Checking is the ONLY way to be sure.
> 
> See also https://www.truma.com/uk/en/faq/operate-truma-appliances-while-driving
> .


Thanks for the comprehensive reply.

The bit you put  (in red above)  I am actually reading differently to the near identical text in the truma website in the link you posted 
In the red text, I read that as saying from 01/2007 a motorhome will have a shutoff device installed (at least originally).  end of.
In the link text it says " With motor homes as of construction year 01/2007, in accordance with the heating equipment directive 2001/56/EC with annexes 2004/78/EC and 2006/119/EC *for the operation of a liquid gas heater while driving*, a safety shut-off device must be provided that prevents gas from inadvertently escaping if a line breaks in the event of an accident "
I've shown the extra text in green - and I am reading that sentence as a whole to say that IF you want to operate the heater when driving, a safety cut-off valve must be provided, rather than it MUST be provided regardless from 01/2007? 

I really don't know which interpretation is right but I am tending to mine, especially as the next line in that site states "For vehicles manufactured before 01/2007 there are no restrictions for operating the gas system while driving" - so it sounds to me like an optional device from 2007?
I am hoping I am wrong.  can you/anyone confirm?


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## wildebus (Dec 16, 2020)

I haven't had a boat but I am familiar with the concept of them (bathtub with a sail or engine?) - so having a drop vent in the gas locker wouldn't work too well  (I guess less risk of explosion as the boat is on the sea/canel bottom if one was fitted?)  - so given Motorhomes DO have drop vents at the minimum and more likely a massive open area around the bottles and the gas is not going to accumalate I really think the comparison is a little daft? 

Just went out and had a look at my Regulator ....   Have the pretty common EN 61-DS and I understand the "DS" means "Drive Safe", so happy days in that I have the choice of leaving the Gas on or turning it off!   I tend to stay on the cautious side but good to have the option when appropriate.


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## r4dent (Dec 16, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Thanks for the comprehensive reply.
> 
> The bit you put  (in red above)  I am actually reading differently to the near identical text in the truma website in the link you posted
> In the red text, I read that as saying from 01/2007 a motorhome will have a shutoff device installed (at least originally).  end of.
> ...



I trimmed the green bit out to simplify the sentence but I did read it differently to you.  I think the best answer is to check your system and don't have gas on if no safety device. 

The two danger times are  after an accident and in a filling station (especially if filling with LPG.)


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## colinm (Dec 16, 2020)

AFAIK any crash cut off devise is optional, I know some MH's made by Hymer group don't come with them. My understanding, and this I may be wrong on, is that the directive is not applied across all the EU. Either way AFAIK turning off the gas at bottle is seen as acceptable.


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## colinm (Dec 16, 2020)

BTW, our Globecar came with a German gas cert and dated sticker on van for it's length of validity. There where no crash safe valves.
p.s. In Germany it is a requirement to have a periodic (2 year?) gas inspection.


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## Nabsim (Dec 16, 2020)

I only shut of my bottles when I am filling them up not when I fill with diesel. I do this because there is a (slim?) chance the regulator can get damaged. I know it was around 2007 when something changed to fitting bulkhead mounted regulators in motorhomes but I dont think they have to have any crash protection in them.

My memory is poor but if you want the regs (which can be murky in application) have a word with Charlie.

I work the same as Nigel though, if you dont feel 100% happy turn them off, I am happy


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## The Raptor (Dec 16, 2020)

Wildebus , thanks for the photo of the truma sticker. I have owned our 2007 Autotrail Apache for 9 years and didn’t realise DS meant Drive Safe so now I’m happy on the multiple occasions I forgot to turn the gas off while driving . And for completeness here’s my sticker and valve in the gas locker, Dave.


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## wildebus (Dec 16, 2020)

Raptor107 said:


> Wildebus , thanks for the photo of the truma sticker. I have owned our 2007 Autotrail Apache for 9 years and didn’t realise DS meant Drive Safe so now I’m happy on the multiple occasions I forgot to turn the gas off while driving . And for completeness here’s my sticker and valve in the gas locker, Dave.


From my searching, that is my conclusion - but I could not find a totally definitive "DS = Drive Safe" statement to confirm.  I will be checking the info supplied with the motorhome later tonight.


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## 2cv (Dec 16, 2020)

Thanks for the information. I always turn mine off as imagining a big escape in the event of an accident, but must check what the regulator says.


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## molly 2 (Dec 16, 2020)

tidewatcher said:


> Ex sailor still instilled with gas paranoia  Definitely off. If you have ever seen a yachtie operating a bilge pump with no water coming out of the outlet then you would know what I mean!!


I used a bucket n chuck it ,honestly .I  had a small leak when unattended  the gas went   in the bin replaced with spirit cooker .no 6 metre rule marinas


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## Robmac (Dec 16, 2020)

tidewatcher said:


> Ex sailor still instilled with gas paranoia  Definitely off. If you have ever seen a yachtie operating a bilge pump with no water coming out of the outlet then you would know what I mean!!



...presumably they would be using a manual bilge pump and not electric!


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## molly 2 (Dec 16, 2020)

It is not practical  to turn mine off  as it on the underslung.  Tank  .the fridge  turns off automatically  I do turn the gas  off   at  the  internal   stops when  the van is not in use  as per the instructions   at handover.


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## Wully (Dec 16, 2020)

When I bought my van 3 years ago we arrived to pick it up dealer he had the heating on in van when we arrived.When I went to shut the gas off he said what are you doing I told him turning gas of for driving. He told me I could leave it on and I could also drive with the heating on I’ve never been a 100% sure of this. So leave the gas on at bottles but don’t drive with the heating or fridge running.


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## wildebus (Dec 16, 2020)

Raptor107 said:


> Wildebus , thanks for the photo of the truma sticker. I have owned our 2007 Autotrail Apache for 9 years and didn’t realise DS meant Drive Safe so now I’m happy on the multiple occasions I forgot to turn the gas off while driving . And for completeness here’s my sticker and valve in the gas locker, Dave.


I just had a search and I could not find a leaflet on the Truma Regulator with the Autotrail documentation   (I was sure I had something!)

I looked through the Autotrail handbook for my 2008 Cheyenne and I found the following advice in the "Preparing For The Road" Section ...

"Ensure gas bottles are correctly positioned, secured and turned off". 

But the same section also has this advice:
"Turn off all gas appliances, except those heating appliances designed to function while the vehicle is in motion"

Now on further reading around, I am even more sure then before that the "-DS" means Drive Safe as their new Regulator is marked as a "-CS" which has a Crash Sensor and is the replacement for Drive Safe.
Drive Safe seems to be also called Secumotion.   Some interesting info about Drive Safe on Southdowns *here*


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## colinm (Dec 16, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Now on further reading around, I am even more sure then before that the "-DS" means Drive Safe as their new Regulator is marked as a "-CS" which has a Crash Sensor and is the replacement for Drive Safe.
> Drive Safe seems to be also called Secumotion.   Some interesting info about Drive Safe on Southdowns *here*



On the link it shows the system we have, you will see it has a pigtail with large green button, this is the 'rupture' valve which shuts down with excess flow, there is also a button on the regulator. If the pressure in system drops, say if you change a cylinder, or turn off cylinder then turn on hob or such like with gas off, then the system needs resetting. This involves first turn on bottle tap, then pressing large button on pigtail, then using a 'pointed' object, like a pen or key press button on regulator.


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## Allen (Dec 17, 2020)

wildebus said:


> I know some moto





wildebus said:


> I know some motorhomes have a recommendation that Gas should be turned off at the bottles when on the move.  And others say it is ok to leave on as they have some system or other that permits the gas to be left on.
> 
> How do you know which 'class' your motorhome sits in?
> What would be the recommendation for a 2008 Autotrail?


I can’t believe the question was even asked...never mind some of the replies.
Why would you the need the gas on when travelling?
The 12 volt system will keep the fridge cold.


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## mfw (Dec 17, 2020)

Allen said:


> I can’t believe the question was even asked...never mind some of the replies.
> Why would you the need the gas on when travelling?
> The 12 volt system will keep the fridge cold.


Think a lot of us just dont turn it off on the bottle - and then we just re-light appliances when we stop - only time i actually isolate bottle is when i go to a fuel station and before i get there - also on ferries


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## CarlandHels (Dec 17, 2020)

So for those that do turn off the gas when driving, how do you keep your water in the depth of winter when antifrost valves tend to dump it when temp is low?
Or am I missing something obvious? I remember loosing all our water when we bought our van. Because we live in it I got rid of that auto valve and put manual one in.


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## maingate (Dec 17, 2020)

yorkshireCPLE said:


> So for those that do turn off the gas when driving, how do you keep your water in the depth of winter when antifrost valves tend to dump it when temp is low?
> Or am I missing something obvious? I remember loosing all our water when we bought our van. Because we live in it I got rid of that auto valve and put manual one in.



Not a problem because the water tanks are onboard, the Alde radiators are heated via the engine circulating system and a heat exchanger. We even have a tank of hot water when we arrive.


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## trevskoda (Dec 17, 2020)

My wife always says she can smell gas, not sure if she is referring to me or the bottle.  hence I turn it off to keep the peace rather than leave it on to get I told you so.


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## mfw (Dec 17, 2020)

yorkshireCPLE said:


> So for those that do turn off the gas when driving, how do you keep your water in the depth of winter when antifrost valves tend to dump it when temp is low?
> Or am I missing something obvious? I remember loosing all our water when we bought our van. Because we live in it I got rid of that auto valve and put manual one in.


Most would probably of used a clothes peg to stop it dumping water but the boiler is inside van and it should be warm inside if you are using it - had a single floor van and still didn't dump water whilst using in middle of winter


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## wildebus (Dec 17, 2020)

Allen said:


> I can’t believe the question was even asked...never mind some of the replies.
> Why would you the need the gas on when travelling?
> The 12 volt system will keep the fridge cold.


Maybe other people have (shock! horror!) a different viewpoint to you? (I know. Stupid, isn't it. Fools!)
And maybe some people what to know that IF they wanted to do something, would it be safe to do, or not safe to do.

Information and knowledge can be very useful when coupled with common sense.


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## Obanboy666 (Dec 17, 2020)

Allen said:


> I can’t believe the question was even asked...never mind some of the replies.
> Why would you the need the gas on when travelling?
> The 12 volt system will keep the fridge cold.


Some people run the heating when on the move, not me may I add.


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## Robmac (Dec 17, 2020)

I have an underslung tank and a manifold in the 'boot' to switch off individual appliances.

These days I usually switch off at the manifold if I remember. It's a pain to switch off at the main tank.

If I do forget, it doesn't worry me as I have more than sufficient drop out vents.


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## r4dent (Dec 17, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I have an underslung tank and a manifold in the 'boot' to switch off individual appliances.
> 
> These days I usually switch off at the manifold if I remember. It's a pain to switch off at the main tank.
> 
> If I do forget, it doesn't worry me as I have more than sufficient drop out vents.



Drop out vents don't help in the event of an accident or when you drive into a filling station with the fridge pilot light lit.  
 Turning the gas off is part of my "pre departure" check list.


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## mark61 (Dec 17, 2020)

Underslung tank too, rarely turn off at main tank, but do turn it off at tap where gas enters van.

Had a little gas leak for a while so got into the habit of turning it off, and have continued to do so.


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## mfw (Dec 17, 2020)

r4dent said:


> Drop out vents don't help in the event of an accident or when you drive into a filling station with the fridge pilot light lit.
> Turning the gas off is part of my "pre departure" check list.


Dont know what safety precautions come into play with the underslung lpg tanks on vehicles but i cant see much difference if appliances are turned off like a lot do - isolation bottle is just an additional safety measure for some


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## Robmac (Dec 17, 2020)

r4dent said:


> Drop out vents don't help in the event of an accident or when you drive into a filling station with the fridge pilot light lit.
> Turning the gas off is part of my "pre departure" check list.



I have an electric fridge.

I don't have a pre departure list, if I did I would forget to check it.


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## Harryw (Dec 17, 2020)

mfw said:


> Dont know what safety precautions come into play with the underslung lpg tanks on vehicles but i cant see much difference if appliances are turned off like a lot do - isolation bottle is just an additional safety measure for some


My underslung tank has a remote solenoid valve on the tank. It’s powered by the control panel which has power removed on the move.  I also have inboard isolator hand Vvs for the water, heater and cooker. Fridge is a 12v compressor type so no gas.


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## rugbyken (Dec 17, 2020)

my fridge has a delay built in after switching of ignition when refuelling etc service engineer recorded it as a fault because it took 17 mins before cutting in exactly the same as he recorded last year ,
       on my handbook it is advised to turn of the gas on ferries & if parking in storage the secumotion valve is a rupture valve designed to close if there is a full flow or open end situation which is why it often operates when you first turn on the gas supply


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## Haaamster (Dec 17, 2020)

Only remember to turn it off sometimes so on, or off if I do which isn't often so on again but when I think about it it's off, unless I'm distracted so on. Oh I've confused meself


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## Robmac (Dec 17, 2020)

Haaamster said:


> Only remember to turn it off sometimes so on, or off if I do which isn't often so on again but when I think about it it's off, unless I'm distracted so on. Oh I've confused meself



You sound as confused as a newt Paul!


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## r4dent (Dec 17, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I don't have a pre departure list, if I did I would forget to check it.



Why not make yourself a pre - pre departure check list that says "Check Pre departure list"

Simples


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## Robmac (Dec 17, 2020)

r4dent said:


> Why not make yourself a pre - pre departure check list that says "Check Pre departure list"
> 
> Simples



I did but I can't remember where I put it.


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## Robmac (Dec 17, 2020)

One thing I would add though is that I have my gas level gauge on the dashboard so if I notice it is low I can pull in at a service station.

This would also serve to show any leaks whilst driving as the gauge would be dropping all the time albeit slowly!


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## barryd (Dec 17, 2020)

If its any help the Gaslow approved engineer that fitted out bottles in 2008 said it was perfectly safe to leave them turned on all the time.  I dont know if that applies to other bottles like Calor etc.


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## mark61 (Dec 17, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I did but I can't remember where I put it.



I thought I got round that by filing it away at home.  Not sure what I filed it under though.   
Much the same as not remembering where I put it.


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## wildebus (Dec 17, 2020)

barryd said:


> If its any help the Gaslow approved engineer that fitted out bottles in 2008 said it was perfectly safe to leave them turned on all the time.  I dont know if that applies to other bottles like Calor etc.


Do you know if that is a feature of the Gaslow bottle itself?  or something else in your installation that allows that?
I had a look on the Gaslow website yesterday to try and check this point but came up with a blank.


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## Petes (Dec 17, 2020)

The Gaslow bottle has a mutlvalve which not only cuts off at 80% fill but also cuts off if a hose is ruptured so replaces the need to have the green button on the hose. I use the stainless steel gaslow hoses. My bottles ere exchanged in 2018 as 10 years was up and they had the multivalve fitted, my originals bottles circa 2008.

I just checked the gaslow website and the info is still there: https://www.gaslowdirect.com/product/gaslow-6kg-refillable-lpg-cylinder-no2-01-4006-67-2/


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## Tim120 (Dec 18, 2020)

I do not need them to be on therefore I turn them off. Gaslow crash stuff installed. Off at the cylinder for me while travelling.
If safe to do so AND needed....


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## Allen (Dec 18, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Maybe other people have (shock! horror!) a different viewpoint to you? (I know. Stupid, isn't it. Fools!)
> And maybe some people what to know that IF they wanted to do something, would it be safe to do, or not safe to do.
> 
> Information and knowledge can be very useful when coupled with common sense.


Isn’t that the point of forums....to discuss and share viewpoints?
Or am I missing something.
Common sense tells me gas can be dangerous so I turn it off.


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## mfw (Dec 18, 2020)

The later gaslow bottles were uprated to R67 status which has additional safety features apparently and they use it as a selling point but it is an EU thing


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## wildebus (Dec 18, 2020)

So first we have ....


Allen said:


> *I can’t believe the question was even asked...never mind some of the replies.*
> Why would you the need the gas on when travelling?
> The 12 volt system will keep the fridge cold.




Followed by .....


Allen said:


> *Isn’t that the point of forums....to discuss and share viewpoints?
> Or am I missing something.*
> Common sense tells me gas can be dangerous so I turn it off.



You toddle off Allen, have an argument with yourself and come back when you have decided which Allen you are


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## Nabsim (Dec 18, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Do you know if that is a feature of the Gaslow bottle itself?  or something else in your installation that allows that?
> I had a look on the Gaslow website yesterday to try and check this point but came up with a blank.


Yes Dave it is a feature of the Gaslow system bottles. The GasIt bottles do not have anything similar but the GasIt Plus bottles do


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## Nabsim (Dec 18, 2020)

Allen said:


> Isn’t that the point of forums....to discuss and share viewpoints?
> Or am I missing something.
> Common sense tells me gas can be dangerous so I turn it off.


Its the same as everything, it depends on what your setup is and as importantly what you are comfortable with. My van only uses gas for the hob and grill so no pilot lights left on or indeed fitted. My bottles incorporate valves that will shut off the flow not eh bottle itself in the event of a crash or pipe rupture. I do not feel a need to shut off for driving as I do not see a risk.

If anyone is anal about risks when driving do they isolate their habitation batteries as electric is also dangerous?

If anyone doesn't like leaving things on, switch them off, simples and vive le difference


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## mfw (Dec 18, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> If anyone is anal about risks when driving do they isolate their habitation batteries as electric is also dangerous?


Dont for get some starter batteries can spark if not tight enough


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## clewless (Dec 20, 2020)

wildebus said:


> I know some motorhomes have a recommendation that Gas should be turned off at the bottles when on the move.  And others say it is ok to leave on as they have some system or other that permits the gas to be left on.
> 
> How do you know which 'class' your motorhome sits in?
> What would be the recommendation for a 2008 Autotrail?


I am a Gas Safe registered engineer, (but not qualified to work on mobile home LPG systems). Basically, if you are involved in an accident & the gas line ruptures, there is a real danger of explosion. In the past, gas explosions have demolished houses and even blocks of flats. Your camper would stand no chance of surviving an explosion. I am not familiar of the Crash Safe system, but if it really is 100% safe, then maybe leave the gas on, but why take the risk?


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## Allen (Dec 20, 2020)

wildebus said:


> So first we have ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m back.


clewless said:


> I am a Gas Safe registered engineer, (but not qualified to work on mobile home LPG systems). Basically, if you are involved in an accident & the gas line ruptures, there is a real danger of explosion. In the past, gas explosions have demolished houses and even blocks of flats. Your camper would stand no chance of surviving an explosion. I am not familiar of the Crash Safe system, but if it really is 100% safe, then maybe leave the gas on,* but why take the risk*?


Exactly!
Despite the keyboard warriors attempt to silence anyone with a different viewpoint I stick by my opinion.

And no, I’m not looking for an argument.....but am somewhat upset to be told to “toddle off”...

I thought this was “the fun and *friendly* motorhome community”


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## Okta (Dec 20, 2020)

rugbyken said:


> the secumotion valve is a rupture valve designed to close if there is a full flow or open end situation which is why it often operates when you first turn on the gas supply





clewless said:


> I am not familiar of the Crash Safe system,


The Secumotion system has 2 parts and both are essential if leaving the gas on. The rupture device is on the high pressure hose between the bottle and the regulator and only protects this pipe. The Secumotion regulator protects the low pressure pressure distribution system around the motorhome. Both green buttons may need re-setting when the gas has been off if the pressure has dropped. The 2 parts of the system protect separate parts of the system and the regulator alone is not enough. Some bottles such as the newer Alugas ones have built in rupture protection valves. There is a new black version of the Secumotion regulator which looks different but performs the same function.


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## mfw (Dec 20, 2020)

Allen said:


> I’m back.
> 
> Exactly!
> Despite the keyboard warriors attempt to silence anyone with a different viewpoint I stick by my opinion.
> ...


Think where you went wrong was stating it was a stupid question we all do things differently that a lot dont agree with


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## tidewatcher (Dec 20, 2020)

It’s quite simple and a personal choice. Either rely on systems which prevent gas escaping in the event of an accident, something you will find out if it works only when needed, or turn it off yourself and eliminate any chance of system failure. The dangerous electricity from batteries was a bit pantomime and hardly a serious comparison of risk. Merry Christmas everyone, lets hope we can all be using our vans for what they are designed for fairly soon and for those full timers keep safe and warm.


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## maingate (Dec 20, 2020)

Anyone who has seen a video of a Motorhome going up in flames in under a minute will probably decide to turn their gas bottles off. The Secumotion system (which I have fitted) is a wonderful thing for when us doddery old farts forget to turn the gas off. I was taught about gas and its explosive and burning qualities as a yoof and it is not nice. A very small percentage of gas to air and a spark is deadly.

With apologies to anyone who wants a Viking funeral.


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## Glynno (Dec 20, 2020)

Turn it off. If you have ever seen a gas bottle fire up you would not leave it on. Imagine a blow lamp on full blast and magnify it by about 100 times with its 8ft high flame and put it in your van. What chance has the van got. Can you get close enough to turn it off with your asbestos’s gloves on and is it fair on the fireman that needs to deal with it and will he survive if it does rocket off. Just a few things there to think about. What would your decision be? Bit harsh? Yes it could be.


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## Nabsim (Dec 20, 2020)

What is the difference between moving and using, is it the chance of an accident? If so I refer back to my previous post. But by all means do your own thing, I will


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## Okta (Dec 20, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> My bottles incorporate valves that will shut off the flow not eh bottle itself in the event of a crash


Interesting, which bottles do this?


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## TR5 (Dec 20, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> My wife always says she can smell gas, not sure if she is referring to me or the bottle.  hence I turn it off to keep the peace rather than leave it on to get I told you so.


So have you never had a 'soundness' test to make sure there are no gas leaks?


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## TR5 (Dec 20, 2020)

Petes said:


> The Gaslow bottle has a mutlvalve which not only cuts off at 80% fill but also cuts off if a hose is ruptured so replaces the need to have the green button on the hose. I use the stainless steel gaslow hoses. My bottles ere exchanged in 2018 as 10 years was up and they had the multivalve fitted, my originals bottles circa 2008.
> 
> I just checked the gaslow website and the info is still there: https://www.gaslowdirect.com/product/gaslow-6kg-refillable-lpg-cylinder-no2-01-4006-67-2/



I use stainless steel hoses too, but still have the shut-off valves fitted, there are adaptors available to make these fit, as well as the Truma secomotion regulator with crash sensor. You could tip over in an accident, while the hoses stay intact, but internal pipework be ruptured or damaged. Safety first in my book.

About running the heating while driving, the Truma Combi is designed to be run while driving, although I prefer to get the van warm before travelling, then rely on the vehicle heater to keep it warm when in motion, but I do have the option if excessively cold.

The bottles must be turned off when refilling though, without fail.  If the 80% cut-off failed you would end up forcing 'liquid' petroleum gas (emphasis on LIQUID) into all your pipework, and as it ignites when attempting to use, it expands over 270-fold - and that would be a flame thrower in action!


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## r4dent (Dec 20, 2020)

There is a risk of damage to people or property vehicles arising from the use an inflammable gas in a motor home.

The probability of something happening is low, but the severity of the consequences is potentially high.

There are actions we can take to reduce the possibility of occurrence
e.g Flame failure devices (fitted as default to modern vans, but not necessarily on older vans or home builds).
Crash safe valves / bottles
Switching off the gas supply.  (when gas not in use / overnight/ whilst driving/ filling stations)
Testing (professional as part of the habitation check or using spray)

There are things we can use to reduce the severity of the consequences
e.g. Fire retardant material (again, fitted as default to modern vans, but not necessarily on older vans or home builds)
Fire control devices Fire blankets ; extinguishers (auto or manual)

We all, consciously or unconsciously,  evaluate this risk and adopt the measures we believe to be appropriate.

I am fairly risk adverse and have Crash safe valves / bottles; I switch off the gas supply overnight or when the van is unoccupied for a few days but leave on overnight; I test for leaks when I change the bottle.  My van is fitted with a fire blanket & extinguisher. 

Others base their decisions on the low probability of occurrence and take less  action.
I am not aware of anyone who wears fire proof overalls, but this may have changed after the events at the Bahrain Grand Prix.

By all means ask for input from others, but it is your van, your life, your loved ones and *your decision.*


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## TR5 (Dec 20, 2020)

I don't normally turn mine off except when filling, but I do have a fire blanket, an in date extinguisher, and have a full gas safety inspection and soundness test of the system annually, as well as the full secomotion system and crash sensors. I also have a gas and co alarms - in date and operational. The gas locker is also well vented, and sealed from the habitation area. The van is kept at home when not is use, and we pass it close by to go in and out, so checked regularly.  I also was Corgi registered, mainly dealing with industrial works, and well aware of the risks and safety measures of using any form of flammable gases.


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## deka (Dec 20, 2020)

Always OFF


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## jncrowe (Dec 24, 2020)

Off


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## CarlandHels (Dec 24, 2020)

So what about Safefill bottles as they are made to rupture in case of a fire to stop them blowing up. Also if someone crashes into my gas locker it wont make any difference whether it's turned off or not... ??


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## mfw (Dec 24, 2020)

yorkshireCPLE said:


> So what about Safefill bottles as they are made to rupture in case of a fire to stop them blowing up.


Well it is generally the gas that causes explosions not liquid so personal choices on what you think they will do


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## CarlandHels (Dec 24, 2020)

mfw said:


> Well it is generally the gas that causes explosions not liquid so personal choices on what you think they will do


But if they rupture does it not turn to gas. Might sound a daft question, but I presume that if an impact cracks a safefill bottle I thought as liquid is released it would turn to gas and not run out as liquid. If you get my meaning.


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## Okta (Dec 24, 2020)

It is called a BLEVE, Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion. They can be devastating.


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## Nabsim (Dec 24, 2020)

Okta said:


> Interesting, which bottles do this?


Gaslow R67


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## Okta (Dec 24, 2020)

Thanks. That seems to be a rupture/flow device the same as Alugas bottles so you still need the crash regulator for the low pressure shut off. I was hoping you had found something that could do both.


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## jeffmossy (Dec 24, 2020)

Okta said:


> It is called a BLEVE, Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapour Explosion. They can be devastating.



I found out about this on my ADR Hazchem course , and yes, it was one of the questions asked in the theory test


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## mfw (Dec 25, 2020)

For those that do worry about gas you need to see some europeans decanting the liquid gas off using the bike rack to get the height and they do it on packed aires as well - it must be a standard practice for them as they are not discreet or even try and hide what they are doing


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## Wooie1958 (Dec 25, 2020)

jeffmossy said:


> I found out about this on my ADR Hazchem course , and yes, it was one of the questions asked in the theory test


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## Markd (Dec 27, 2020)

I've reviewed the original question which is always a good idea!
The manufacturer recommendation will probably depend upon whether they've installed a Secumotiion or similar regulator.
I've not found any build standard rule that requires this - which doesn't mean it didn't happen of course.
So to fund out for sure on any particular van you need to open the locker and have a look at what's there.- shouldn't be too hard.
This device of protects the low pressure side so that in the event of a crash supply is cut off preventing gas escaping through broken pipes.
The second risk is high pressure loss through rupture of the bottle to regulator hose. This is probably more dangerous. The secumotion regulator hose incorporates a valve and the reset button should be apparent on the visual check.

So that answers the technical question.

More modern refillable bottles have hose rupture protection and so cover the more dangerous of the two crash leakage scenarios and might provide some peace of mind about leaving gas turned on.

My motorhome is 2004 vintage without a secumotion regulator and I'm prepared to say that I was too lazy to turn the gas off and on again every time I stopped for a cup of tea when I had exchange bottles.
Now I have R67 Gaslow refillable I feel slightly happier that in the event of a crash that rapid gas loss will be less likely.
My habitation electrical system prevents running the heating and hob ignition systems and probably the fridge.
When the solenoid to fridge 12v failed I did run it on gas while travelling until I could replace it and is safe enough as the flame failure device will cut off gas if for any reason the flame is lost.
Obviously if doing this one mustn't go to a petrol filling station without turning it off.
This risk is the reason for AES systems waiting 15 minutes before switching to gas after loss of 12v.


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## mfw (Dec 27, 2020)

I checked gas supply hose on one of my old vans and if you accept that you cant really see this fault until you remove the hose the pic may be of benefit to others to check the expiry date on the hose

I always go refillable with stainless hoses which is probably why it was spotted




And i do leave gas on generally really dont like putting this on show but it might help others with rubber hoses


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## wildebus (Dec 27, 2020)

mfw said:


> I checked gas supply hose on one of my old vans and if you accept that you cant really see this fault until you remove the hose the pic may be of benefit to others to check the expiry date on the hose
> 
> I always go refillable with stainless hoses which is probably why it was spotted
> 
> ...


A little while ago I turned on my compressor and noticed it didn't cut out when up to pressure - so checking along the long rubber air hose on one of the outlets I found a section just like that in your photo. Looked fine visually while straight but could just hear the air leaking out. And on bending it the cracks became obvious. That hose was maybe in place just 6 years and inside at the point.
The steel braided hoses are definitely a better idea than plain rubber ones (it is interesting I think that they also have two sets of dates on them usually depending on their intended use)


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## Markd (Dec 27, 2020)

I know that ss braiding will do wonders for abrasion but does it do anything (other than hide them!) for age cracking?
Cuts down UV degradation but in a locker or under a van that's not much of an issue.
I rather suspect that a lot of us have age expired houses unless we've changed our layout - so a timely reminder to do an annual crack check.


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## colinm (Dec 27, 2020)

"Out of sight, out of mind".
Hoses are recommended to be replaced periodically, I've seen all sorts of recommended dates, but 5 years seems most common.


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## Markd (Dec 27, 2020)

As usual string length comes to mind!
Here's Bullfinch's take which would indicate that a hose could still be serviceable 15 years after manufacture.
In a stable location not subject to large temperature ranges or direct sunlight (like a gas locker) it wouldn't be unexpected for hoses to remain serviceable for more than 5 years.


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## vindiboy (Dec 27, 2020)

wildebus said:


> I know some motorhomes have a recommendation that Gas should be turned off at the bottles when on the move.  And others say it is ok to leave on as they have some system or other that permits the gas to be left on.
> 
> How do you know which 'class' your motorhome sits in?
> What would be the recommendation for a 2008 Autotrail?


Off no question


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## Markd (Dec 27, 2020)

That'll be why Truma make and market a valve that can be used with an AES fridge whilst a vehicle or caravan is on the move!!


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## Jaguar (Dec 27, 2020)

1. Gas can escape 'slowly 'as well as 'excessively'.
2. You have absolutely no idea what is going to break/rupture/snap/fall of/come adrift in the event of an accident.
3. What the insurance company thinks, does or otherwise is of no consequence when you are trapped in and the whole thing goes 'whomph'.
Just turn the @@**""g bottles OFF!


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## colinm (Dec 27, 2020)

Jaguar said:


> 1. Gas can escape 'slowly 'as well as 'excessively'.
> 2. You have absolutely no idea what is going to break/rupture/snap/fall of/come adrift in the event of an accident.
> 3. What the insurance company thinks, does or otherwise is of no consequence when you are trapped in and the whole thing goes 'whomph'.
> Just turn the @@**""g bottles OFF!


You are totally ignoring the plain simple fact that some systems are designed and approved for use whilst driving.


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## tidewatcher (Dec 27, 2020)

All the systems rely on something operating faultlessly when needed. You will not know if it is faultless or faulty until then. For my own peace of mind I find the few seconds it takes to turn off my gas as a part of my “pre flight checks” is well worth it.. However that is my personal take on the situation but at least I know the gas is off..........


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## trevskoda (Dec 27, 2020)

Im scared to fart in the van now, only takes one static spark and im gone.


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## wildebus (Dec 27, 2020)

vindiboy said:


> Off no question


The question was: 
_How do you know which 'class' your motorhome sits in?
What would be the recommendation for a 2008 Autotrail?      _ 

To clarify, your response is based on Autotrails (or your own motorhome brands) recommendation, or your opinion?


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## Markd (Dec 27, 2020)

And if you have a leave on when driving system which has been inspected and 'signed off' there's no need to turn it off and your insurance company can't complain.
Of course if you like rummaging in your gas locker or you feel happier then feel free to turn it off except when camping.


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## Markd (Dec 27, 2020)

This may or may not help I'm afraid!
But here's a page from Autotrail Tracker Owners Handbook with photos showing post 2006 Ducato base.
The ringed section states that a gas heater may be used on route if the correct regulator is fitted.


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## wildebus (Dec 27, 2020)

Markd said:


> This may or may not help I'm afraid!
> But here's a page from Autotrail Tracker Owners Handbook with photos showing post 2006 Ducato base.
> The ringed section states that a gas heater may be used on route if the correct regulator is fitted.


I did have a look at my handbook and it did provide this contradictory info   (see this post - https://wildcamping.co.uk/threads/gas-switch-off-or-leave-on-when-driving.84340/page-2#post-1144826), but as I have a -DS regulator AND a Gaslow bottle, if I decide to drive with the gas still on, I will not feel more unsafe than if I had it turned off.


Having said that, a Motorhome with NO Gas installed would be a safer vehicle regardless.


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## Markd (Dec 27, 2020)

I too found a Cheyenne handbook with no mention of en-route gas operation.
Maybe the factory never installed the same heater as in Tracker?
Either way as you say the fact remains that with the right kit you don't need to turn off.
But you can if you want and if you do t know whether you do have the right kit you should turn off.


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## Jaguar (Dec 28, 2020)

No I am not, though perhaps having served in nuclear submarines does make me cautious by nature. You can design what you want, the consequences of any accident are completely unpredictable, so I stick by what I said.


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## Robmac (Dec 28, 2020)

Jaguar said:


> No I am not, though perhaps having served in nuclear submarines does make me cautious by nature. You can design what you want, the consequences of any accident are completely unpredictable, so I stick by what I said.



Sorry to be pernickety, but could I politely request that you use the 'reply' button when answering a post. That way it saves people having to scroll back through to see which point you were replying to.


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## mfw (Dec 28, 2020)

To be honest you are unlikely to change peoples views and they will do what they want anyway i certainly will


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## Jaguar (Dec 28, 2020)

Robmac said:


> Sorry to be pernickety, but could I politely request that you use the 'reply' button when answering a post. That way it saves people having to scroll back through to see which point you were replying to.


No problem, thanks for pointing that out.


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## Robmac (Dec 28, 2020)

Jaguar said:


> No problem, thanks for pointing that out.



Thanks, easily done and I have been guilty myself!


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