# Tiree



## alcam (Oct 15, 2017)

Interesting article re motorhomes/wild camping on Tiree and other islands .

IT is the sunniest place in Scotland and welcomes thousands of visitors from across the world tempted by its pristine surfing beaches.

But islanders on Tiree have developed an imaginative scheme that has seen it avoid the problems of overcrowding and erosion that has affected many other Scottish islands caused by increased tourism.

In peak season, Tiree's population of about 650 more than doubles, putting a huge strain on its air and ferry services.

But the Inner Hebridean isle has banned all wild camping and all campervans must use specially constructed pitches which are situated on crofts across the island.


Motorhomes must be booked in advance and must pay a £13 fee to camp with the majority going to the participating crofter.

The scheme has proved controversial for some visitors but the scheme has helped prevent major damage to the fragile machair areas and overcrowding on the roads.

Now the Tiree Ranger service believes the scheme could be adopted across other islands which are suffering severe problems from a massive rise in visitor numbers.

Tiree Ranger Stephanie Cope said: "I'm not sure it would work on every island but it would certainly work on some.

"As a community, we recognise the appeal of freedom camping around the Hebrides and value the contribution that such visitors make to our rural economy.

"Under our current model for managing freedom camping visitors directly support the traditional crofting environment and way of life that prevails here.

"The fact that Tiree regulates Freedom Camping has been a source of consternation to some.

"However, in so doing, the island has successfully addressed a burgeoning conflict of land-use interests between the tourism industry, our agricultural sector and national conservation bodies. "

"The number of vehicle campers continues to rise annually, dispelling concerns that the management of freedom camping would act to reduce tourist revenue.

"Indeed, many of our guests choose to visit again and are rightly proud of their positive impact on our island home. "


The remote Hebridean island which has been dubbed the "Hawaii of the North" is becoming such a success it has left locals unable to get away to the distant mainland because of the crush of visitors.

Tiree's fame has spread around the world on travel and windsurfing websites, its summer sun, strong winds and huge waves winning rave reviews.

The most westerly of the Inner Hebrides, Tiree enjoys more sunshine than most of Scotland, and strong winds because of its exposed location.

Many of the island's new fans have been attracted by reviews on the internet.

Throughout summer a steady trickle of visitors arrives on a Sea Otter plane which brings 14 people, once-a-day to the island, though at times of high demand, a 34-seat Saab aircraft is operated by Loganair.

The ferry, which can carry 90 cars, sails every day to Oban but the trip takes almost four hours.

Figures show the number of motorhomes travelling to the islands has risen over the past decade and follows the introduction of a Scottish Government scheme to make island ferry fares more affordable.

The Road Equivalent Tariff (RET) was introduced to boost remote economies - and worked so well the number of cars on one route is up by more than 80 per cent.

But some ferry services are now struggling to handle the additional traffic and island communities are finding their infrastructure is groaning under the load of the additional visitors.


RET bases fares on the cost of travelling the equivalent distance by road and was introduced on the Western Isles, Coll and Tiree in October 2008, cutting fares by up to 55 per cent.

It was rolled out to Islay, Colonsay and Gigha in October 2012, to Arran in October 2014 and now covers every route.

But across the network, car traffic has increased by just over 25 per cent which is causing severe problems as locals struggle to book ferries and increased traffic struggles on mainly single track roads.

Western Isles MSP Dr Alasdair Allen recently wrote to Transport Minister Humza Yousuf calling for a motorhome levy to be introduced to help fund infrastructure improvements on the islands, which was rejected.

A campaign has also been launched by some islanders on Skye for government funding or a tourist tax to offset infrastructure problems.

Some business leaders have called for a tourist tax, a levy widely used elsewhere in Europe to pay for both tourist marketing and infrastructure.


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## Robmac (Oct 15, 2017)

I wouldn't object to that system being adopted in many places.

Sounds like a reasonable charge to pay, certainly a lot less than large campsites. Seems like a good compromise.


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## colinm (Oct 15, 2017)

We where there last year, there are some very nice pitches, there is also a campsite, but that's not very inspiring.


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## alcam (Oct 15, 2017)

runnach said:


> Seems discrination to me, it is ok for walkers, hikers, cyclists, etc, to wild camp, it is not ok for caravans or motorhomes. Out & About / Camping and Campervans | Isle of Tiree
> 
> Whilst I no complaints of of anyone earning a crust, I am curious if such earnings will effect crafter subsidies received from the tax payer, via the Scottish government, it should, as a crofter is a crofter, or a campsite owner?
> 
> Remember, all one is getting for their £, is a parking spot on a crofters machar.



Maybe it is Terry but [excuse my ignorance] if you were diving from a harbour and somebody was parking their boat in the harbour would you both pay ? Or would it only be the boat ?
That may be a crap comparison but you get my point .
I think motorhomers , in these places , can be good and bad . Tiree is dealing with it , I think sensibly .


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## colinm (Oct 15, 2017)

runnach said:


> Seems discrination to me, it is ok for walkers, hikers, cyclists, etc, to wild camp, it is not ok for caravans or motorhomes. Out & About / Camping and Campervans | Isle of Tiree
> 
> Whilst I no complaints of of anyone earning a crust, I am curious if such earnings will effect crafter subsidies received from the tax payer, via the Scottish government, it should, as a crofter is a crofter, or a campsite owner?
> 
> Remember, all one is getting for their £, is a parking spot on a crofters machar.



For the others there is a legal right to wild camp, there is no right for motorhomes to wildcamp on the machair.
Whilst it is a new phenomenon for other islands to be inudated with vans it's not new for Tiree, 30 years ago it was reconised as a world class surfing and windsurfing spot and the machair suffered from having many vans parking on it, the present rules are the result.


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## alcam (Oct 15, 2017)

runnach said:


> *Diving in a harbour, or at harbour entrance, is normally not allowed, obviously for safety reasons, for both parties.*
> 
> My point is, you pay £13.00 per night, for no facilities, this is a pure rip off. You get nothing for this, except crofter permission to park on land land subsidised by the tax payer, at least Dick Turpin wore a mask.
> 
> ...



Being a bit literal surely ? My point was the difference between motor vehicles and walkers


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## caledonia (Oct 16, 2017)

It sounds like a good idea but in reality these croft sites are working crofts with livestock roaming around, sheep or and coo sh1te everywhere and abandoned farm machinery. I do intend to visit Tiree but I will do some research before booking my pitches.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Oct 16, 2017)

The outandabput link  Runnach posted say all sites fenced but they are crofts so what sort of fencing ?  

Alf



caledonia said:


> It sounds like a good idea but in reality these croft sites are working crofts with livestock roaming around, sheep or and coo sh1te everywhere and abandoned farm machinery. I do intend to visit Tiree but I will do some research before booking my pitches.


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## alcam (Oct 16, 2017)

runnach said:


> If I were being liberal, mate. I would have stated, boats float, thus no damage to Eco-system
> 
> Seriously, though, you don't pay 13 quid a day to park in Edinburgh City Centre. Also I don't need to remind you, there are nada facilities for this charge, except allowed to park on subsidised croft land.
> 
> Perhaps the focus should be on upgrading campsite to cope with alleged influx of Motorhome/Camper van owners. Incidentally, who are an easy target when compared with tent campers.



You don't park in Edinburgh city centre much do you ?
Point stands re vehicles and walkers . It may have been a poor comparison (boats and divers) but , I think , the point was rather obvious . You have now gone from literal to obtuse . I wouldn't suggest for a minute that you were liberal !
Kind of funny you referring to an 'alleged' influx of motorhomes when you stated previously that everybody should have foreseen the massive increase of motorhomes on the islands after the introduction of R.E.T.
I think we (all motorists) have to be realistic . Yes we are easy targets but , up to a point , also legitimate targets . Personally I think the £13 is a wee bit pricey but I wouldn't have a problem with paying . Tiree is dealing with this in their own way and it appears to be working


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## alcam (Oct 16, 2017)

runnach said:


> Too, early for obtuse, mate  to be honest, I wouldn't consider taking our seven metre brick onto Tiree, nothing to do with charge, to do with practicalities, I would probably look at a swap, use a smaller camper.
> 
> Alleged, Tiree is one small inner heb island of many, stats will vary from island to island.
> 
> ...



It was you ! Bloody toerag


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## colinm (Oct 16, 2017)

From what I recall £10 goes to the crofter and £3 pays for the ranger to admin scheme, plus possibly for the water and disposal point near Co-op. All the pitches we saw where clean and tidy and not some junked up corner of a yard. One pitch in particular we where very envious of, but someone else had booked it.


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## colinm (Oct 16, 2017)

runnach said:


> They really should revisit their pricing. Thirteen quid with "possibility" for water and and disposal, which may incur more cost. For me, Tiree can ram it!



Probably my poor writing, there is (or was when we where there) water point and disposal point couple of hundred yards from Co-op, AFAIK this has been set up specifically to service the pitches on crofts, the 'possible' part of my post was that a part of the £3 might have paid for these, I seem to recall there was a sign along those lines, checking streetview is out of date(2009), shows public toilets with tap, but no disposal point, I believe it was new last year.


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## colinm (Oct 16, 2017)

Funny enough, just had a look on street view of one of the pitches to give a link, but it wasn't there in 2009, but opposite side of road parked up on Machair was a campervan with awning.


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## colinm (Oct 16, 2017)

runnach said:


> While it is always welcoming to see positive moves to accommodate Wildcampers with various types of four wheels. This targeting for this example, WC forum members, is discrimination. Ok for hikers/walkers to pitch up where ever they wish, with no charge, is wrong.
> 
> Again, welcoming fresh water, black waste disposal are available, these facilities are not available within the croft, to whom you pay your money, to. This is a badly  thought out price system, I wonder who did the business plan and, came up with the numbers?



The 'Rules' on Tiree are the law across the whole of Scotland, the only difference is they reconise there is a demand for wildcamping near the coast, to cater for this they have set up a scheme to allow it on a small scale in addition to any legal rights.
I was talking to one of the crofters about this, she was not in on start of scheme, but as there was large demand in the area for school summer holidays she had been approached by ranger about having a pitch, remember these are not campsites so what will a crofter get throu the year? I'd guess maybe £700, a welcome addition to their income no doubt, but not exactly a fortune.


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## alcam (Oct 16, 2017)

runnach said:


> If I were being liberal, mate. I would have stated, boats float, thus no damage to Eco-system
> 
> *Seriously, though, you don't pay 13 quid a day to park in Edinburgh City Centre.* Also I don't need to remind you, there are nada facilities for this charge, except allowed to park on subsidised croft land.
> 
> Perhaps the focus should be on upgrading campsite to cope with alleged influx of Motorhome/Camper van owners. Incidentally, who are an easy target when compared with tent campers.



Just to update you Old Town is £3.40 per hour . Think George Street is more expensive . Tiree is looking quite reasonable


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## colinm (Oct 17, 2017)

runnach said:


> Not sure rules statement is correct for whole of Scotland, Colin.



I've been looking for any law that has been passed on Tiree in relation to wild camping in vans, I can't find any, AFAIK they actively enforce the law with regards to parking off road, something which in large areas of UK is largely ignored.  As an offset to this they have introduced the crofting camping scheme and also autherised parking areas near beaches. This might not suit everyone, but it does in the main seem to work.


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## Croftergirl (Oct 17, 2017)

*Crofter's View Point*

I have read this discussion with interest, and am sympathetic to the dilemma of trying to find somewhere to park for the night. I do think though that it is also helpful to see it from the crofter's point of view.

We have various crofts, some perhaps suitable for overnight parking and others definitely not. I refer to one comment which suggested that crofters had a cheek to charge £13 when they were 'subsidised by the tax-payer.' Firstly, we pay tax too so subsidise other groups which give us nothing in return. Secondly, the subsidies are not for croft land. We pay rent for that land and ours amounts to over £1,000 per year so why shouldn't we charge a modest £13?

Over the years, we have lost thousands of pounds as a result of tourist behaviour and we cannot recoup that loss. For example, many times vehicles (and walkers) go through gates and don't close them behind them, or they close gates which were deliberately left open to allow cattle to access water. This allows them to roam into areas which are dangerous and we have lost quite a few livestock over the cliff edge or they have died from being stuck in boggy areas. It also means young cattle who are not yet of breeding age can be impregnated by someone else's bull and there are vets fees to abort the calf or have to perform a caesarean delivery, stunting the animal's growth and possibly affecting its chance of breeding in the future. We often have wire fences cut with pliers, sometimes just yards from a gate, again allowing animals to roam and mix with other people's livestock. We have fires lit and the debris left where it is. We have dogs left to run and worry the livestock, sometimes driving them over the cliff edge to their death.

Instead of complaining about the right of the crofter to charge you for parking on land for which they have had to pay rent, maybe a little understanding of their experiences will help balance the debate. I fully realise that not everyone is so uncaring about other people's property but, sadly, it is the case that a few always spoil it for everyone else.

The majority of local people welcome visitors to the island but perhaps the next time you come you try to imagine yourself in the position of the crofter and think how you would feel on the issue if you were the one having people camp unrestrictedly on your land.


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## alcam (Oct 17, 2017)

runnach said:


> Don't know cost, Alcam. I leave Edinburgh for the nimbys and alfresco brigade.



 ?

Must be the drugs .

I'll need to take more


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## The laird (Oct 17, 2017)

Are you lot trying to beat the test post or are you just testing this one?


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## 2cv (Oct 17, 2017)

Testing is becoming even more testing


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## Wully (Oct 17, 2017)

Wild camping in Barra keep tiree too one sided for me even the sheep are nicer on barra. Ahhhm I mean the lamb tastes nicer on


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## 2cv (Oct 17, 2017)

I hear that the sheep on Tiree repeatedly call out for Barra


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## The laird (Oct 17, 2017)

2cv said:


> I hear that the sheep on Tiree repeatedly call out for Barra



Bill are you sure it’s no Barry they are shouting for?


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## The laird (Oct 17, 2017)

Looser cruiser said:


> Wild camping in Barra keep tiree too one sided for me even the sheep are nicer on barra. Ahhhm I mean the lamb tastes nicer on View attachment 58601



Welly bits job wully!


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## alcam (Oct 17, 2017)

runnach said:


> Sorry, cant help with this, don't know any dealers.



No you are not getting away with that evasion . You brought up the price of parking in Edinburgh , less than £13 ? My bahookey .
Still curious about the 'nimby and alfresco' statement . WTF is a alfresco ?


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## The laird (Oct 17, 2017)

Ding ding!


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## Wully (Oct 17, 2017)

Is it safe to come oot yet I’m scared in case I catch a stray blow. Anyway tiree is only good for one week in July when music festival is on absolutely brilliant week cracking tunes great beaches locals all happy cos there making a mint whole island drunk for a week


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## 2cv (Oct 18, 2017)

Just testing to see if I can do a link like that (apparently this is the new test thread) Pain in the ass - Idioms by The Free Dictionary


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## alcam (Oct 18, 2017)

Croftergirl said:


> I have read this discussion with interest, and am sympathetic to the dilemma of trying to find somewhere to park for the night. I do think though that it is also helpful to see it from the crofter's point of view.
> 
> We have various crofts, some perhaps suitable for overnight parking and others definitely not. I refer to one comment which suggested that crofters had a cheek to charge £13 when they were 'subsidised by the tax-payer.' Firstly, we pay tax too so subsidise other groups which give us nothing in return. Secondly, the subsidies are not for croft land. We pay rent for that land and ours amounts to over £1,000 per year so why shouldn't we charge a modest £13?
> 
> ...



Thanks for that . As you can see from the thread there are a mixture of opinions . Unfortunately not everybody will look at these situations from both sides of the fence . There was a previous thread about the local MSP suggesting a levy on motorhomes . Again , in my opinion , the levy should be on all motor vehicles . They all affect the road systems , particularly on small islands .
There does appear to be a groundswell by islanders , businesses and local politicians to deal with the situation . 
Is the croft parking  scheme the brainchild of the local council ?
I have no problems with charges being levied , personally think it could be kept under £10 but I'm not a resident .


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## Croftergirl (Oct 18, 2017)

alcam said:


> Again , in my opinion , the levy should be on all motor vehicles . They all affect the road systems , particularly on small islands . . .
> 
> Is the croft parking  scheme the brainchild of the local council ?



I can't imagine that many on the islanders would want a levy on all vehicles. Drivers in general find it almost impossible to find anywhere in the UK to park without someone wanting to charge them for it. If you have a vehicle you have to park it somewhere. However, when it comes to parking on land which belongs to someone else, and for which they themselves pay an annual rent, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to pay a (reasonable) charge, and I think £13 is reasonable. If you parked for up to 24 hours at Glasgow Airport's Short Stay car-park, you would expect to pay £23. Their Short Stay car-park would be £28 for between 6-24 hours. You literally have the size of one parking space and get nothing else for your money.

The scheme is a local initiative designed to deal with the increasing problem of parking on easily damaged land. You might find the following article helpful to explain how the scheme was formulated:

goo.gl/qdWtTD


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## Croftergirl (Oct 18, 2017)

runnach said:


> do you personally charge a fee for this on your "rented" land?



We don't personally have any sites for this purpose so it doesn't apply to us.



> Regarding your comments on vandalism, where can I source this information, such acts are surely reported? Sorry to say, I actually take the acts of vandalism and gates left open statement with a pinch of salt.



There isn't any information as it is never reported. What is the point unless you know who did it, and have evidence? I can assure you that it is a regular occurrence, especially the fence-cutting and open gates.



> Can I ask, how does island cope with influx of tourists for the various events that take place around the year?



The only one which could be potentially problematic is the Music Festival but there are designated large areas reserved and prepared for both vehicles and campers. Portable toilets are also available for the visitors.



> How will the island cope if and when the Skerryvore Offshore Wind Farm commences construction?



I have no idea!



> Please do not take any of the above personally



I don't. :hammer: You have every right to comment and your post is respectful. :welcome:


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## alcam (Oct 18, 2017)

runnach said:


> Apologies, my 4G was sporadic, yesterday, which is why I missed your post.
> 
> First of all, your first post is a strange one, normally folks who sign up, do this via the introduction section of forum. Who introduce themselves, who may also state, they are MH owners/campervan/conversion, or purely looking for advice prior to a purchase.
> 
> ...



Looking at West Harris Trust (£5-£24) not sure Tiree is too far out with their price ? As I said already under £10 maybe fairer . The £5 charge appears to be in remote areas . Don't know if people are honest ? The Tiree £13 appears to be directly on someone's land with some , albeit not on the spot , facilities . I would hope if part of any fee is for water provision etc that it is spent on that . If facilities were upgraded the £13 wouldn't seem unreasonable .
Not sure about your suspicions re poster ? Do you think not a crofter ?


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## iampatman (Oct 18, 2017)

runnach said:


> Anyone else having a problem to open link?



Server not found when I click on link.

Pat


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## alcam (Oct 18, 2017)

Croftergirl said:


> I can't imagine that many on the islanders would want a levy on all vehicles. Drivers in general find it almost impossible to find anywhere in the UK to park without someone wanting to charge them for it. If you have a vehicle you have to park it somewhere. However, when it comes to parking on land which belongs to someone else, and for which they themselves pay an annual rent, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to pay a (reasonable) charge, and I think £13 is reasonable. If you parked for up to 24 hours at Glasgow Airport's Short Stay car-park, you would expect to pay £23. Their Short Stay car-park would be £28 for between 6-24 hours. You literally have the size of one parking space and get nothing else for your money.
> 
> The scheme is a local initiative designed to deal with the increasing problem of parking on easily damaged land. You might find the following article helpful to explain how the scheme was formulated:
> 
> Croft Camping Briefing



Small levy , ring fenced ? Think it would depend which island .
Unfortunately can't open link .
Not saying price is prohibitive , as runnach suggests maybe some , basic , services would help . Possibly some crofters already do this ?
Been intending to go to Tiree for a long time , don't worry I've not been put off !


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## Deleted member 5816 (Oct 18, 2017)

Have a look here

Alf

http://www.isleoftiree.com/core/download/imagesidebarpage/61/




runnach said:


> Anyone else having a problem to open link?


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## alcam (Oct 18, 2017)

runnach said:


> *Certainly not my intention to put anyone off, visiting Tiree.* If a crofter can make more from folks likes us and they wish to pay, kudos to the crofter.
> 
> However, looking at campsite, there are two locations, they're charges are decent IMO. Plus facilities at hand, EHU if required, of course, extra charge.
> 
> ...



Sure its not . Was supposed to do an island trip last month , didn't happen . Hopefully next year .
Point about insurance on other post , wouldn't have thought it would cost much [if any] more for crofter . Chances are anywhere with machinery etc would be covered for most things .


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## 2cv (Oct 18, 2017)

The rules are quite complex, but may apply to some schemes How to Start a Campsite or Caravan Park: Planning and Licence - Pitchup.com


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## alcam (Oct 18, 2017)

Alf said:


> Have a look here
> 
> Alf
> 
> http://www.isleoftiree.com/core/download/imagesidebarpage/61/



Was having trouble opening this but now I see they have free parking too ! Also full facilities at toilets . Seems the Tireeans have covered all the bases . Not bad for a wee island


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## colinm (Oct 18, 2017)

runnach said:


> Certainly not my intention to put anyone off, visiting Tiree. If a crofter can make more from folks likes us and they wish to pay, kudos to the crofter.
> 
> However, looking at campsite, there are two locations, they're charges are decent IMO. Plus facilities at hand, EHU if required, of course, extra charge.
> 
> ...



If we where to return to Tiree we would by preference use one of the croft sites, last trip we spent most time on the campsite, would rather have the views from site no12 than some very slow free WiFi and toilets in plastic portaloo's.


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## Croftergirl (Oct 19, 2017)

runnach said:


> Obviously crofts are serviced with fresh water



No, most are not, apart from those around a croft house.  All they have, at best, is a trough and, trust me, you would not like to use the water from there! It is stagnant when not in use, and animals standing beside it defecate into it. It fills with the aid of a ballcock and its sole use is to give livestock a water supply. We also pay a metered charge for that water. This is why gates are sometimes required to be left open so cattle can get access into whatever field has the trough.

I have sorted the link in my previous post.


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## Croftergirl (Oct 19, 2017)

runnach said:


> Anyone else having a problem to open link?



I've now sorted the link.


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## Croftergirl (Oct 19, 2017)

iampatman said:


> Server not found when I click on link.
> 
> Pat



I've now sorted the link.


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## Croftergirl (Oct 19, 2017)

alcam said:


> Unfortunately can't open link



I've now sorted the link.


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## Croftergirl (Oct 19, 2017)

alcam said:


> now I see they have free parking too ! Also full facilities at toilets . Seems the Tireeans have covered all the bases . Not bad for a wee island




Thank you! We really do welcome visitors but we also have to manage the negative issues which come as a result of it.

By the way, it's 'Tirisdeachs'. :dance:


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