# I'm considering adding solar panel but not sure ... opinions plesse.



## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 13, 2016)

As per the thread title I am considering the practicality of getting a solar panel and associated bumff that goes with them.  The problem is I know little about them but have been told they are a waste of money.  I don't really think I need one as I'm seldom stationary very long but when I do stay in one place it tends to be for quite a while. Finally, I think I'd prefer to have it as a free standing unit I can take in and out as required. 

I've been eyeballing a few kits on eBay and kinda think this one seems about right on both price and output.

SUNDELY CLASS A CELL 12V 150W Solar Panel Kit | Caravan | Boat | Motorhome UK | eBay

I currently have 1x115Ah battery which doesn't get heavy use and is charged via a simple split charge relay. I have no plans to invest in the higher end charge controllers because I can either switch extra charge to the vehicle battery either manually when required or I can build a simple sensor to do it automatically.

If any of you more experienced users could give an unbiased opinion of this kit I would be very grateful. 

Thanking you all in anticipation of helpful opinions.


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## chrismilo (Dec 13, 2016)

I bought 2 x 150 watt from Alfa batteries  explorer german made would not go for Chinese rubbish mine even put out 3amps on a cloudy day Mono crysteline best
Don't forget you get wildcamping discount they do complete kits too make sure you use MPPT regulator I use epsolar can't fault it


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## maingate (Dec 13, 2016)

It's probably cheaper to buy the bits separately but easier to get it all at one place. 

You need to consider the space needed to store a freestanding panel as they are quite big. I have a roof mounted 100 watt panel but also have a freestanding 90 watt panel if I need more solar power. Luckily I have a big garage in the motorhome, so space is not an issue.


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## IanH (Dec 13, 2016)

IMHO there is nothing you can add to a Mh that is better than a solar system

The one you show is fine, but there are better/more practical

Google Photonic Universe

Ours is a semi flexible 100w panel glued to the roof, been there 3 yrs and doesn't show any signs of escaping. (and only weighs 3Kg!!) Forget all about free standing panels, they will always be in the way, a real pain!

Get a dual battery solar controller and it'll charge both batteries, you'll have full batteries every time you use the Mh.

We have a 100w panel and a 110Ah leisure battery, we NEVER hook up. OK in winter if you're a winter user, then that will be a struggle I'd agree, but then there is an even better solution....................A Batt to Batt charger, this is also the input from the solar panel. What it does is to "trick" your engine alternator and send a fast charge to your leisure battery whenever the engine is running and the starter battery is full. Even a quick run down to the paper shop will give a huge charge to the leisure battery, which the solar panel will then maintain (to both batteries BTW)


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## Deleted member 9849 (Dec 13, 2016)

Why not put the solar panel on the roof?If you don't stop very long in one place it will become a chore to keep setting up a free standing solar panel up all the time.If it's on the roof it's a fit and forget installation and working all the time even when it's cloudy.

The solar panel looks ok but the solar controller will only charge the leisure battery.Also it's a bit too close to it's maximum rating of 10A,the panel can produce nearly 9A so I would go for a 20A solar controller.Some controllers will charge the leisure battery and then trickle charge the engine battery,I would be looking for one of them,alternatively you can fit a vanbitz battery master or equivalent to trickle charge the engine battery but it adds to the expense.

edit;-what Ian said above.


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## oppy (Dec 13, 2016)

It was suggested to us by a very dear friend on here that something similar to this                100W Solar Panel Monocrystalline 12V Kit Ideal for Caravans, Boats & Motorhomes | eBay                 would be ideal for our twin battery setup, and up to now it has been terrific . I was quite apprehensive about fitting it, so our friend offered to do it for us, but due to an injury he was unable to do it, but--------------------I did it myself !!! but with stage by stage guidance from said friend.
But that's what we are all about, aint it. There will be all sorts of suggestions from all our pals on here, so what you will have to do, probably, is work out from all this well meaning advice is what suits both you and your budget. Because we are very limited as far as cash is concerned, the above suited us and worked well---and still is


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## FULL TIMER (Dec 13, 2016)

I used this kit from photonic universe 12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine  the controller supplied will charge two battery banks independently ie leisure / vehicle and is also adjustable as to what bank gets what percentage of charge first. you don't get mounting brackets etc but I just used some ali angle.


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## n brown (Dec 13, 2016)

12V 175W Solar Panel package with MPPT controller & Mountings


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## Goggles (Dec 13, 2016)

We have a 100w panel on the roof and 2x110amp batteries and never hook up in the summer. In fact I never think about ehu between April-September.


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## campertwo (Dec 13, 2016)

FULL TIMER said:


> I used this kit from photonic universe 12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine  the controller supplied will charge two battery banks independently ie leisure / vehicle and is also adjustable as to what bank gets what percentage of charge first. you don't get mounting brackets etc but I just used some ali angle.



Agree. That's the same kit I fitted!


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## Bikeralw (Dec 13, 2016)

A solar panel is the best thing I ever fitted to my van. It's only 85W but feeds both batteries via a controller and battery master which keeps the vehicle battery topped up. It also keeps the batteries charged during winter when the van is parked on the drive.
I only use the van between April and October, so a bigger panel isn't required.
Al.


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## exwindsurfer (Dec 13, 2016)

*solar*

Ive just fitted this lot + 40amp mppt controller  think ive got it covered lol.


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## malagaoth (Dec 14, 2016)

If you have read my earlier posts you will realise that I am not the worlds biggest fan of solar panels on motorhomes but with that said here are my thoughts.

forget a free standing panel -although in theory it might be more efficient than a roof panel it will only generate when set up (obviously) a roof panel will generate every time the sun shines.

What kind of touring do you do and what do you expect from a panel?  I tour in the summer time and have never found myself wanting for battery power but then I move on every day or at least every other day.  In the summer days are long and the requirement for lighting is minimal and its really only on bad days that I "hunker down" and watch a lot of tv.
If your touring is of a similar pattern then you too might not need a panel.

In the winter your power demands are much higher but unfortunately the production of your panels will be little or even very little so they might not generate enough power.  Your £175 might be better spent on occasionally using cheap campsites to top up your batteries

If you still think that you need panels, get the biggest ones that you can fit on your roof - in winter time anything less than 150W is probably of little use such a panel will only generate anything at all for about 6 hours and even during that time it may average only 1amp - 6amp/hours per day(in UK on an average winter day) so I would regard 150W as an absolute minimum.

The thing which worries me slightly about the set up which several people have linked to is that its a 150W panel with a 10amp controller, on a summers day in the south of England (or on the continent) the controller will be at full stretch.


Sorry my views are so negative, I know a lot of people have them and presumably they must at least think that they work for them but unless you have unusually high summer power demands Im not sure that they are worth the money

I await a storm of criticism!


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

chrismilo said:


> I bought 2 x 150 watt from Alfa batteries  explorer german made would not go for Chinese rubbish mine even put out 3amps on a cloudy day Mono crysteline best
> Don't forget you get wildcamping discount they do complete kits too make sure you use MPPT regulator I use epsolar can't fault it



I recently had an unpleasant experience with Alpha and if they can't respect their potential customers then they don't, and won't, get my business.





maingate said:


> It's probably cheaper to buy the bits separately but easier to get it all at one place.
> 
> You need to consider the space needed to store a freestanding panel as they are quite big. I have a roof mounted 100 watt panel but also have a freestanding 90 watt panel if I need more solar power. Luckily I have a big garage in the motorhome, so space is not an issue.



I agree, buying the separate components is better in most cases, and indeed as far as I can see with this lot too as I can choose the controller I'd prefer (usb and/or dual battery etc) and most are "free" delivery either through Amazon or eBay.  As far as space is concerned, it would depend on the physical size of which ever unit I settle upon, but storage for an item like this shouldn't be a problem inside the van, but it is worthy of consideration, thanks.





IanH said:


> IMHO there is nothing you can add to a Mh that is better than a solar system
> 
> The one you show is fine, but there are better/more practical
> 
> ...



The lightweight semi-flexible panels do seem to be favourable but the rigid panel would be just as convenient to me.  Dual battery charging isn't much of a necessity to me as I have things set up the way I want them where both batteries get the maximum available output from my alternator when they need it, which was achieved by the use of a simple home-made split charge relay.  In the unlikely event that I'd need the solar charge to go to the engine battery I'd simply activate a relay with the flick of a switch (either manually or by remote control.)





wakk44 said:


> Why not put the solar panel on the roof?If you don't stop very long in one place it will become a chore to keep setting up a free standing solar panel up all the time.If it's on the roof it's a fit and forget installation and working all the time even when it's cloudy.
> 
> The solar panel looks ok but the solar controller will only charge the leisure battery.Also it's a bit too close to it's maximum rating of 10A,the panel can produce nearly 9A so I would go for a 20A solar controller.Some controllers will charge the leisure battery and then trickle charge the engine battery,I would be looking for one of them,alternatively you can fit a vanbitz battery master or equivalent to trickle charge the engine battery but it adds to the expense.
> 
> edit;-what Ian said above.



The only real reason for NOT putting it up on the roof is to keep my van looking like a regular workhorse rather than a MH and to avoid any unwanted attention from anyone who fancies a knocked off solar panel, add to that the fact that I'd seldom actually NEED the extra power because I'm usually mobile at least every second day then sticking it out when I need it wouldn't be that much of a chore.  I agree, the 10a controller isn't what I'd choose with the 150w panel but any controller will charge whichever battery I tell it to, either automatically via a simple home made voltage sensor or by manual changeover.





oppy said:


> It was suggested to us by a very dear friend on here that something similar to this                100W Solar Panel Monocrystalline 12V Kit Ideal for Caravans, Boats & Motorhomes | eBay                 would be ideal for our twin battery setup, and up to now it has been terrific . I was quite apprehensive about fitting it, so our friend offered to do it for us, but due to an injury he was unable to do it, but--------------------I did it myself !!! but with stage by stage guidance from said friend.
> But that's what we are all about, aint it. There will be all sorts of suggestions from all our pals on here, so what you will have to do, probably, is work out from all this well meaning advice is what suits both you and your budget. Because we are very limited as far as cash is concerned, the above suited us and worked well---and still is



To be quite frank, yes, the budgetary consideration is a major player for me also as it is highly influenced by lack of funds as well as amount of practical use.  Installation and wiring is not a problem for me though.





FULL TIMER said:


> I used this kit from photonic universe 12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine  the controller supplied will charge two battery banks independently ie leisure / vehicle and is also adjustable as to what bank gets what percentage of charge first. you don't get mounting brackets etc but I just used some ali angle.



This does look to be about the most versatile and decent kit with a very usable output too.  It's only a fiver dearer than the one I had almost settled upon and has a dual battery function which could be useful, though not entirely necessary.  To be honest, the only negative is the fact that the controller is only rated at 10a, whilst the maximum output of the panel is very near 9a ... I tend to prefer a ratio of 3:1 but will happily accept 2:1 so I'd have liked a 20a (at least) controller with the 150w panels.
At present, it's a toss up between this kit at £175 or buying separates which will come in at £106.50 but with only a 100w panel.  The final decision I think will be monetary as I feel I won't need the higher output because I don't usually stay in one place for very long.  Though it has been known to happen, which is why I'm considering getting solar.





n brown said:


> 12V 175W Solar Panel package with MPPT controller & Mountings



Too big physically for my needs, but would be great for anyone who full times I would think, thank you for the link though.





exwindsurfer said:


> Ive just fitted this lot + 40amp mppt controller View attachment 49139 think ive got it covered lol.



I lurve overkill, but I'd never go that far for the odd occasion where I could use a little extra juice ... nice set-up though.



Anyway, many thanks to everyone for your input, I think I'll be going with this 100w panel (probably roof rack mounted) with this 20a controller which has 2 USB outputs rated at 2a.  This way if I decide I can make use of more power at a later date, I can add another panel and still be safely within my 2:1 power ratio.


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## Deleted member 56601 (Dec 14, 2016)

n brown said:


> 12V 175W Solar Panel package with MPPT controller & Mountings



I've just fitted this kit with 2 x trojan 125s and am well pleased with it, but it all comes down to personal choice re power/money. One thing I can say is I've never heard anyone say they wish they hadn't fitted solar. 
In Portugal, I saw a portable panel get blown over and smashed - it meant the chap had to either buy one locally or rely on alternator for the rest of his trip; I would go for fixed every time.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Dec 14, 2016)

Edina said:


> I've just fitted this kit with 2 x trojan 125s and am well pleased with it, but it all comes down to personal choice re power/money. One thing I can say is I've never heard anyone say they wish they hadn't fitted solar.
> In Portugal, I saw a portable panel get blown over and smashed - it meant the chap had to either buy one locally or rely on alternator for the rest of his trip; I would go for fixed every time.



Agree with that,I would always have solar power fitted to any van I owned.Even though in winter there is not much meaningful output it's still keeping both leisure and engine battery topped up whilst the van is on the drive.I do have a permanent hook up available but don't plug it in unless using a mains appliance like the vacuum cleaner.I normally plug it in the day before we go away to switch the fridge on.The reason for that is I don't want to have power on the Schaudt Elektroblock charger/power supply permanently as I have heard tales of them freezing whilst on hook up,probably totally over cautious but that's just me.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

Edina said:


> I've just fitted this kit with 2 x trojan 125s and am well pleased with it, but it all comes down to personal choice re power/money. One thing I can say is I've never heard anyone say they wish they hadn't fitted solar.
> In Portugal, I saw a portable panel get blown over and smashed - it meant the chap had to either buy one locally or rely on alternator for the rest of his trip; I would go for fixed every time.



That's a good point re. accidental damage, I hadn't considered that ... and with my wee dug it's almost a certainty.  Thanks.


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## Nesting Zombie (Dec 14, 2016)

Auld Pharrrt said:


> As per the thread title I am considering the practicality of getting a solar panel and associated bumff that goes with them.  The problem is I know little about them but have been told they are a waste of money.  I don't really think I need one as I'm seldom stationary very long but when I do stay in one place it tends to be for quite a while. Finally, I think I'd prefer to have it as a free standing unit I can take in and out as required.
> 
> I've been eyeballing a few kits on eBay and kinda think this one seems about right on both price and output.
> 
> ...





Hi ya,
Like many others I LOVE a well matched Solar installation, They can be quite BRILLIANT.
BUT
Just thinking of your OP, there seems to be a tone of self doubt if you actually 'NEED' one for your kinda use !. Maybe just re ask yourself a few questions to Bolster the 'NEED' for solar installation in your case before buying one.

Have you had Low Battery power issues in the past due to your excessive power demand ?.
How quickly does your battery currently charge back up via the Alternator ?.
Has this been inconvenient or a chore in anyway for you in your use of the MH/Van ?.
Is your use of the vehicle going to change in any way as regards to your power demands ?.
Have you considered just fitting a 2nd Leisure Battery Easier to charge, Guaranteed extra power, plus possible use of small invertor if required due to the increased Battery capacity ?.

I'm obviously not saying Don't fit Solar, I'm asking Do you NEED solar for the way YOU currently use your vehicle !.
Just a thought...


I Myself Haven't got a solar installation on The Nest, But if I did I would DEFINATLY fit the Biggest I could in order to not only exceed my current usage, but to make it somewhat 'Future Proof' for my power requirement's.


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## eddyt (Dec 14, 2016)

hi 
  make sure you can still get your canoe on the roof. before
fitting them.


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## IanH (Dec 14, 2016)

*Forget the relay!*



Auld Pharrrt said:


> I recently had an unpleasant experience with Alpha and if they can't respect their potential customers then they don't, and won't, get my business.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Please forget the relay option. use of a twin battery solar charger makes it irrelevant, and, unlike the relay, is totally automatic. You need a solar charger anyway, twin battery ones aren't significantly more expensive,and, as I say, totally automatic.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

eddyt said:


> hi
> make sure you can still get your canoe on the roof. before
> fitting them.



Sold 'em all, just a Sevylor Colorado left to go ... and I think it will be away soon.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

IanH said:


> Please forget the relay option. use of a twin battery solar charger makes it irrelevant, and, unlike the relay, is totally automatic. You need a solar charger anyway, twin battery ones aren't significantly more expensive,and, as I say, totally automatic.



TBH I don't believe I'll need to top up my main battery.  My van is also my daily run about and Santa is bringing me a jump starter pack.


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## 1 Cup (Dec 14, 2016)

*controller*

These controllers that have usb sockets. Are they constant live?,as at this time of year ifso. 100 wat solar pannel would only power usb socket at 1amp if sockets used 2 amp +500ma its a drain?:ninja:

Biggest pannels and batterys I would. Mines 100 watts in summer.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

band driver said:


> These controllers that have usb sockets. Are they constant live?,as at this time of year ifso. 100 wat solar pannel would only power usb socket at 1amp if sockets used 2 amp +500ma its a drain?:ninja:
> 
> Biggest pannels and batterys I would. Mines 100 watts in summer.



A valid point, I would assume the best practice would be to only use the USB if battery is full,  thereby using anything available rather than other battery power.

To  plagairise Robin ... "GOOD THINKING BANDMAN ... POWEE!!"


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## Mick H (Dec 14, 2016)

Auld Pharrrt said:


> As per the thread title I am considering the practicality of getting a solar panel and associated bumff that goes with them.  The problem is I know little about them but have been told they are a waste of money.  I don't really think I need one as I'm seldom stationary very long but when I do stay in one place it tends to be for quite a while. Finally, I think I'd prefer to have it as a free standing unit I can take in and out as required.
> 
> I've been eyeballing a few kits on eBay and kinda think this one seems about right on both price and output.
> 
> ...



Your quite right to wonder if it's worth going down the solar path, because, in my honest opinion, they aren't needed!

We have been motorhoming since 1980, and haven't needed solar, so MOST others don't, either.   Solar only appears to be a good idea.
We too, can camp for several days, in the summer, without moving. In the UK winter, output from solar is generally so poor, that it will NOT provide enough to keep batteries charged for camping.

I voiced my opinion, on this subject, before, and seemed to upset others, but it is my honest view. Solar is MUCH overated, and it isn't free power.

Save your money, and certainly don't fit solar, before giving extra batteries a good try.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

Mick H said:


> Your quite right to wonder if it's worth going down the solar path, because, in my honest opinion, they aren't needed!
> 
> We have been motorhoming since 1980, and haven't needed solar, so MOST others don't, either.   Solar only appears to be a good idea.
> We too, can camp for several days, in the summer, without moving. In the UK winter, output from solar is generally so poor, that it will NOT provide enough to keep batteries charged for camping.
> ...



Hi Mick,
I think I have been pretty much living under the same opinion but as I also believe that I can't knock it until I've tried it I decided to go ahead and order the panel and controller I mentioned for £107.  Nothing much to lose by giving it a try but at least I'll gain a bit of knowledge of solar systems in the process.  The solar experiment wins over adding another battery on 3 counts. 1-Weight and space. 2-No matter how many batteries I have they won't re-charge themselves. and 3- I'll gain a little knowledge in the process. 

A much appreciated post however so I thank you for braving the wrath of others by voicing your opinion.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Dec 14, 2016)

Mick H said:


> Your quite right to wonder if it's worth going down the solar path, because, in my honest opinion, they aren't needed!
> 
> We have been motorhoming since 1980, and haven't needed solar, so MOST others don't, either.   Solar only appears to be a good idea.
> We too, can camp for several days, in the summer, without moving. In the UK winter, output from solar is generally so poor, that it will NOT provide enough to keep batteries charged for camping.
> ...



 Mick,I agree with you that the output of solar panels in winter is poor but I'm sure that people with motorhomes in storage with no hook up available who want to keep the engine/leisure batteries charged up would disagree.


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## Bikeralw (Dec 14, 2016)

Mick H said:


> Your quite right to wonder if it's worth going down the solar path, because, in my honest opinion, they aren't needed!
> 
> We have been motorhoming since 1980, and haven't needed solar, so MOST others don't, either.   Solar only appears to be a good idea.
> We too, can camp for several days, in the summer, without moving. In the UK winter, output from solar is generally so poor, that it will NOT provide enough to keep batteries charged for camping.
> ...



I can't say I agree with you there, but your comments certainly don't upset me, each to their own.
 As I've said before, I've never regretted going down the solar route. For us, never using EHU and spending no more than two, or at the most three days in any one place it's ideal. Before I fitted the panel available power towards the end of a stay was touch and go. Now we relax when we see the little LED come on and the voltage rises as dawn breaks.
If it's not free power what is it? The extra weight carried around is negligible compared to the weight of an extra battery.
Al.


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## colinm (Dec 14, 2016)

Mick H said:


> Your quite right to wonder if it's worth going down the solar path, because, in my honest opinion, they aren't needed!
> 
> We have been motorhoming since 1980, and haven't needed solar, so MOST others don't, either.   Solar only appears to be a good idea.
> We too, can camp for several days, in the summer, without moving. In the UK winter, output from solar is generally so poor, that it will NOT provide enough to keep batteries charged for camping.
> ...



Have you ever had a solar setup?


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## n brown (Dec 14, 2016)

i'll go along with Mick H to some extent. when i was living fulltime in a van, a solar panel cost about 2 weeks wages, nowadays more like 2 days , so i never considered getting one . as we moved fairly often, every couple of days, the batteries were charged enough by the engine, and if we stayed anywhere longer, then either the genny or a 240v lead kept them up
the main reason i have one now [220w] is because it was affordable and i always fancied one- not forgetting that most of our time was in warm places.
of course if you're somewhere warm, you use less lighting and little heating - so batteries last well ,and we also had a foot pump for the sink, so a panel seemed superfluous at the time
so it's a matter of lifestyle- if you have to have the telly on,laptops and heating, pumps for the shower and hair straighteners and compressor fridge etc, then you better get a panel !


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## st3v3 (Dec 14, 2016)

I like solar, but see if you can sort an angled mounting.

6th November this year, proper clear day:







Then, this:






gave this:






Such a massive difference just by tilting the panel...


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

n brown said:


> i'll go along with Mick H to some extent. when i was living fulltime in a van, a solar panel cost about 2 weeks wages, nowadays more like 2 days , so i never considered getting one . as we moved fairly often, every couple of days, the batteries were charged enough by the engine, and if we stayed anywhere longer, then either the genny or a 240v lead kept them up
> the main reason i have one now [220w] is because it was affordable and i always fancied one- not forgetting that most of our time was in warm places.
> of course if you're somewhere warm, you use less lighting and little heating - so batteries last well ,and we also had a foot pump for the sink, so a panel seemed superfluous at the time
> so it's a matter of lifestyle- if you have to have the telly on,laptops and heating, pumps for the shower and hair straighteners and compressor fridge etc, then you better get a panel !



In my own particular case, I tend to NOT rely on battery power for anything I couldn't live without, but I do have my fair share of rechargeable battery powered electronics.

Solar panel power appeals to me because there are a couple of places I will stop for as much as 4 weeks or more (though I take trips to local shop, toilets, bins etc.) Normally, this would be in summer when solar energy might be plentiful.  Now, recently, through stupidity on my own part, my engine battery let me down on a stopover on the Isle of Mull and I had to get my nephew and his missus to gimme a shove, fortunately, I was on a flat spot half way down a hill and it was an easy shove.  I promptly arranged a leisure battery so that my blunder doesn't happen again (at least not with my main battery) leaving me in the middle of nowhere and in need of assistance.  Also, due to my fondness for overkill, I managed to wangle it so that Santa is getting me a nice jump start pack.  Now, I do have a low-wattage toaster, and a low-wattage electric kettle either of which can be powered by my 1kW inverter and I have a great fondness of fruit smoothies which my food blender wand thingy and a jug cater for.  On top of that is a recent experiment with a slow cooker whilst driving (there's another story in there but I won't bore y'all with the details,) so my attitude has changed somewhat since I fitted the LB ... I am much more willing to actually use the things I have to hand, and doing so, in conjunction with a solar panel, will mean my LB will be more useful to me rather than just a back-up.  Hence why I was looking at some extra charging availability.

Although I believe in live and let live ... if you need to run your engine or genny you don't need to ask my permission and I certainly wouldn't be asking you for your's although I'd keep it to a minimum and as non-intrusive as possible, but if I can re-charge (partially or fully) by stealth then I'm a happier camper. I don't have any mis-givings about having ordered a 100w panel even though I could have lived happily without it and may well expand on it once I weigh up the pro's and con's.


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## pughed2 (Dec 14, 2016)

*No need for solars*

Hi ap, I get by on the original 85ah leisure battery, by removing all the drain on it. 2.5 gallon water butt with tap on drainer, and hot washes in the sinks removes all use., and battery AAA operated pushlights takes the lights off it.  Leisure battery is kept to recharge my 10 inch tablet as needed, so I can get contual internet use, or continual TV watching, where there is wi fi,  (virtually everywhere),  and is recharged every 2 hours if needed by running the engine for 15 minutes.........saves all that expense/hassle........steve Bristol


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

st3v3 said:


> I like solar, but see if you can sort an angled mounting.
> 
> 6th November this year, proper clear day:
> 
> ...



Yep, I've been mentally picturing several different 4-way hinged set-ups that won't be all that difficult to set up, and even security wouldn't be very difficult if done right.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

Happily, my controller arrives tomorrow and the panel next week.  I can play with it in the flat using a motorbike battery and see how it performs, then it'll get fitted a.s.a.p. on the van.


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## n brown (Dec 14, 2016)

i forgot to add- since i put the panel on, all 3 batteries stay fully charged all the time, and i do run a propex now, but all my lights are led. i must get the monitor that tells me exactly what it's doing at any given moment, better than telly !


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 14, 2016)

n brown said:


> i forgot to add- since i put the panel on, all 3 batteries stay fully charged all the time, and i do run a propex now, but all my lights are led. i must get the monitor that tells me exactly what it's doing at any given moment, better than telly !



That's not saying much ... staring out the windscreen in pitch darkness on a very cloudy night is better than watching telly!

But I know what you mean.


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## Mick H (Dec 15, 2016)

colinmd said:


> Have you ever had a solar setup?



Yes, on our house. I know all about solar, and for the first year of installation, I monitered & recorded the daily output.

Don't forget that most solar set up's, on a building, are orientated towards the sun, wheras most motorhomes have the panel flat, for obvious reasons, so are less efficient than mine, on our house.

In the summer of this year, I came across another issue with solar on motorhomes. At a stellplatz, in Germany, all the electricity points were in use, with not enough for everyone, even though many had solar panels on their vans.
It turned out that, because ir was quite hot, we were all seeking shady spots, and so the solar panels just weren't producing enough, under these conditions.
Anything that casts a shadow on a panel, reduces outut. In the UK winter, the sun is so low, in the sky, that shadow is a real problem.

When I started motorhoming, solar hadn't been invented, but I've never suffered from a flat battery, whilst camping.

Solar seems to be a great idea, but in has severe limitations, that many people are oblivious to. 
You seldom get anything free, and solar is a fine example of this.


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## Beemer (Dec 15, 2016)

the solar power question has been asked so many times, and as far as I am concerned, the answer will always be the same, its a no brainer, fit it and forget it.
Install a solar panel and let it do its work, you don't have to turn it on or off, maintenance is nil, so win win.
We have 2 x 110Ah leisure batteries connected to a 100W solar panel, and for some reason, the solar panel charges up the vehicle battery as well, I can only think that the connection is obviously through the leisure batteries to the electrical control panel.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Dec 15, 2016)

Beemer said:


> the solar power question has been asked so many times, and as far as I am concerned, the answer will always be the same, its a no brainer, fit it and forget it.
> Install a solar panel and let it do its work, you don't have to turn it on or off, maintenance is nil, so win win.
> We have 2 x 110Ah leisure batteries connected to a 100W solar panel, and for some reason, the solar panel charges up the vehicle battery as well, I can only think that the connection is obviously through the leisure batteries to the electrical control panel.



Yes I agree,solar is a no brainer and one of the best after market accessories you can fit.It's good to have electrical independence and not be bound to the ehu posts.If there are only non electric pitches available you can take one with confidence.Some of the best pitches on a site are often non electric.


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## Deleted member 56601 (Dec 15, 2016)

Nigel has just touched on one of the main benefits with solar - they keep your batteries topped up, as opposed to letting them run down and re-charging them with engine, genny whatever.


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## Mick H (Dec 15, 2016)

Beemer said:


> the solar power question has been asked so many times, and as far as I am concerned, the answer will always be the same, its a no brainer, fit it and forget it.
> Install a solar panel and let it do its work, you don't have to turn it on or off, maintenance is nil, so win win.
> We have 2 x 110Ah leisure batteries connected to a 100W solar panel, and for some reason, the solar panel charges up the vehicle battery as well, I can only think that the connection is obviously through the leisure batteries to the electrical control panel.



If it was as simple as you suggest, then I would have gone down that route, a long time ago. 

On today, as an example, solar would NOT recharge my batteries. The daylight is limited, and the cloud cover makes output from solar useless.


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## Mick H (Dec 15, 2016)

Edina said:


> Nigel has just touched on one of the main benefits with solar - they keep your batteries topped up, as opposed to letting them run down and re-charging them with engine, genny whatever.



It would be a mistake to rely on solar to keep your batteries topped up. Their output is far too inconsistant.

Don't most of us, when wildcamping, especially during the uk winter, move, most days?


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## Deleted member 9849 (Dec 15, 2016)

Mick H said:


> It would be a mistake to rely on solar to keep your batteries topped up. Their output is far too inconsistant.
> 
> Don't most of us, when wildcamping, especially during the uk winter, move, most days?



If you're moving about regularly then I agree. Those who have their vans in storage for long periods with no hook up would probably disagree.


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## colinm (Dec 15, 2016)

Mick H said:


> Yes, on our house. I know all about solar, and for the first year of installation, I monitered & recorded the daily output.
> 
> Don't forget that most solar set up's, on a building, are orientated towards the sun, wheras most motorhomes have the panel flat, for obvious reasons, so are less efficient than mine, on our house.
> 
> ...



So you have no real experience of using solar on a van, and yet have decided that "most" don't need it.
Read the other solar thread going at the moment and you will see many posts of people who have fitted solar and are very pleased with it.
As for shade, there's a lot of bullshit talk about it, casting a shadow across a panel doesn't stop it working, 
those vans must have had massive power requirements if their panels couldn't work in a bit of shade.
Solar is not for everyone, but many have found it to work very well, in the OP's case, when he moves everyday it will be of limited use, but as soon as he parks up for extended periods it will come in to it's own.


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## colinm (Dec 15, 2016)

Mick H said:


> It would be a mistake to rely on solar to keep your batteries topped up. Their output is far too inconsistant.
> 
> Don't most of us, when wildcamping, especially during the uk winter, move, most days?



I've been using solar to keep batteries topped up when not in use for 30 years now, no problems.


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## colinm (Dec 15, 2016)

Mick H said:


> If it was as simple as you suggest, then I would have gone down that route, a long time ago.
> 
> On today, as an example, solar would NOT recharge my batteries. The daylight is limited, and the cloud cover makes output from solar useless.



It's true that at this time of year the output is limited, but for many a panel fits in well with usage of van. 
I've only heard of a couple of people saying they had fitted solar and wouldn't bother again, lots are very pleased with it.


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## Mick H (Dec 15, 2016)

colinmd said:


> So you have no real experience of using solar on a van, and yet have decided that "most" don't need it.
> Read the other solar thread going at the moment and you will see many posts of people who have fitted solar and are very pleased with it.
> As for shade, there's a lot of bullshit talk about it, casting a shadow across a panel doesn't stop it working,
> those vans must have had massive power requirements if their panels couldn't work in a bit of shade.
> Solar is not for everyone, but many have found it to work very well, in the OP's case, when he moves everyday it will be of limited use, but as soon as he parks up for extended periods it will come in to it's own.



I am well aware that many people think that solar is great, and have several motorhoming friends who have it intalled, and because, on occassions, we camp with them, I have experience of solar being used on vans.

I can camp without hook up, for just as long as my friends, especially during the winter. Their solar doesn't appear to give them any more advantage, than my extra batteries do.

As for shadows, then I often check on the power output on my domestic solar set up, and I can tell you that it makes an enormous difference. True, they don't stop working, but the output is reduced considerably. Incidentally, I deliberately chose panels that were better in low light conditions, but they still don't perform well on cloudy days.

Since I am the type of person that researches most things, before making changes, I feel that my views are relevent to this discussion.

If you feel that solar is beneficial, fine, but be aware that they are NOT all that they seem. There are more reliable methods of obtaining power for extended periods of camping.


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## Byronic (Dec 15, 2016)

I can give you a real time example as of right now. Here I am on the Spanish Costa 2 weeks plus with minimal sunshine reliant on leisure batteries that surprisingly went kaput over a very short period, and now only capable of holding a charge for about a nights use.The solar panels (200W) have been supplying enough charge to save me starting the engine or moving off site and getting replacement batteries in a place I don't necessarily. want to have to buy them. A reasonably bright sky with minimal direct sunlight have provided sufficient power. Led lights, a low wattage TV, turning the heater fan off all help.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 15, 2016)

colinmd said:


> So you have no real experience of using solar on a van, and yet have decided that "most" don't need it.
> Read the other solar thread going at the moment and you will see many posts of people who have fitted solar and are very pleased with it.
> As for shade, there's a lot of bullshit talk about it, casting a shadow across a panel doesn't stop it working,
> those vans must have had massive power requirements if their panels couldn't work in a bit of shade.
> Solar is not for everyone, but many have found it to work very well, in the OP's case, when he moves everyday it will be of limited use, but as soon as he parks up for extended periods it will come in to it's own.



Hi Colin,
Thanks for your input on the subject.  While I agree wholeheartedly that in my case a solar panel will, most likely, be useful to me when I am parked up for more than a few days in one location.  I still tend to believe that I could have managed without it just as well, but with less "luxuries." I NEVER use EHU at all and have no desire to go down that route,  even in the past when I did have the facilities it simply seemed almost alien to me to use it.
However I also respect Mick's opinion and appreciate his input.  He isn't alone in his opinion I, personally, hold similar beliefs but I want to explore the potential benefits of playing with a solar kit.


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## Nesting Zombie (Dec 15, 2016)

Hi gang.
There is obviously two trains of thought regarding this Solar Thing.
My Thoughts are, If you Have a suitable space for the installation, If you can afford it, Then What's the harm in you having it, You don't have to Reason any more than that!.
I DO think that there is a 'Trap' that we can easily fall in to here though, & that is Having an installation that Hasn't been Matched to your Usage, & then Desperately trying to Self justify the installation.
Ive said MANY times, A well matched Solar installation can be BRILLIANT !. But people often just expect too much from a half hearted attempt at fitting an in adequate panel for there needs, with little thought to 'Future Proofing' the installation with regards to your potential growing power usage.


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## maingate (Dec 15, 2016)

There seems to be something you have all forgotten ... and that is a battery will be able to undergo a limited number of discharges before it fails.

Yes, you can manage for a few days without a solar panel. count that as one battery discharge. They will soon build up and you need to fork out for a new battery (batteries). 2 decent batteries cost about the same as a solar panel kit. Fit solar and it should extend the life of your batteries. The Numax batteries on my last van were 6 years old when I sold the van and behaved just as good as the day they were fitted. I can only remember one time when the EBL system alarm went off on low voltage and that was due to 3 days of Fog.


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## malagaoth (Dec 15, 2016)

simply "using" a battery isnt a discharge cycle, I have never taken my battery down below 11.5v (by the meter on the wall which may or may not be accurate) consequently I have never 'discharged' the battery.  The battery on my M/h is the original, its now 8 years old  I have no idea what make it is or what size it is because Ive never seen it! I dont even know where it is, the manufacturer says its under the drivers seat but I know that it definately isnt there!

there is no doubt that flattening a battery taking it down to 10v or less really kills a battery in double quick time and if a solar panel prevents that then yes its an investment but for me the only time that one would serve that function is during the 5 months or so I lay mine up over winter and I find it easy  to just put it on hook up every sunday (every sunday so I dont forget) although Im sure that once a month would probably do just as well.

Before I would advise going down the solar route I would say get rid of all the halogen and florescent lights and replace with LEDs that simple low(ish) cost measure will lengthen your off hook up time significantly if doing that still doesnt give you enough time then consider solar


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## RoadTrek Boy (Dec 15, 2016)

Having read through this thread, nobody has mentioned the fact that charging your batteries using the alternator costs fuel even when moving to a different location, at least the government is not taxing sunshine yet! So once paid for and fitted any energy you get from it doesn't cost any more.
I haven't got solar, but hope to one day. :drive::camper::have fun:


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## Nesting Zombie (Dec 15, 2016)

RoadTrek Boy said:


> Having read through this thread, nobody has mentioned the fact that charging your batteries using the alternator costs fuel even when moving to a different location, at least the government is not taxing sunshine yet! So once paid for and fitted any energy you get from it doesn't cost any more.
> I haven't got solar, but hope to one day. :drive::camper::have fun:



Don't be too sure that it WONT be taxed AGAIN !
History tells another story of 'Daylight Tax'


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 15, 2016)

I have another question ... I have noticed a number of references to temperatures and extra temp sensors.

I understand that there are max and min temp ranges that the panel is comfortable with but why would you need an external sensor?

Is it to do with battery temp?
Controller temp?
Or just to monitor the panel temp as it appears they don't come with built in sensor as standard?


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 15, 2016)

hairydog said:


> The temperature sensor is for the battery under charge, not the solar panel.
> 
> The correct voltages to charge batteries to vary with temperature, so a good charger will monitor the battery temperature (usually the temperature of the negative terminal) but mostly the controllers just monitor ambient temperature, which is less good, but far easier!



Pretty much as I had suspected ... Thanks HD.


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## 1 Cup (Dec 15, 2016)

*fit and forget but only when your 1 is inadequate*

12 kg pannel 
Batteries are get in cheaper! But payloads are not going up.

Led lights and more efficient power consumption items are the first thing to change. Not battires


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## Nesting Zombie (Dec 15, 2016)

Auld Pharrrt said:


> I have another question ... I have noticed a number of references to temperatures and extra temp sensors.
> 
> I understand that there are max and min temp ranges that the panel is comfortable with but why would you need an external sensor?
> 
> ...



OH DEAR,  !,,,LOL LOL
In my Opinion. It's all to do with Efficiency !.
Solar panel temperature IS  an important factor & 'Can' MASSIVELY affect it's Output. Ironic !,,Yep. but the Hotter the panel 's get 'Can' make it less efficient in doing what it's actually designed to, & possibly up to around the 30% mark (Weird isnt it).
It really does come down to the Make, Model & Type, Look for the"temperature coefficient Pmax" As a Guide.
The power loss due to temperature 'Can' also depend on its installation, Monocrystalline or Amorphous can be better. Keep in mind that a vehicle roof Can get SILLY hot Especially in Summer or the further South to the equator you venture, But if you make sure that a Descent Air gap is UNDER the Panels & it's a relatively small installation, It helps tremendously. But Panel Temperatures should be at least a consideration in your thought process.
But if you Park Under a Tree, Or next to a Building in the Shade you should be fine !.
Now,,ive got my Tin Hat on & Just made a Batch of Popcorn !.


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## 2cv (Dec 15, 2016)

RoadTrek Boy said:


> Having read through this thread, nobody has mentioned the fact that charging your batteries using the alternator costs fuel even when moving to a different location, at least the government is not taxing sunshine yet! So once paid for and fitted any energy you get from it doesn't cost any more.
> I haven't got solar, but hope to one day. :drive::camper::have fun:



There is a cost to the solar in a similar way to the alternator. Which would prove larger is impossible to say, probably depends on mileage covered. The panel will add form drag and will also have some weight, thus affecting fuel consumption.


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## runnach (Dec 15, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> OH DEAR,  !,,,LOL LOL
> In my Opinion. It's all to do with Efficiency !.
> Solar panel temperature IS  an important factor & Can MASSIVELY affect it's Output.Ironic !,,Yep. but the Hotter the panel 's get 'Can' make it less efficient in doing what it's actually designed to, & possibly up to around the 30% mark (Weird isnt it).
> It really does come down to the Make, Model & Type, Look for the"temperature coefficient Pmax".As a Guide.
> ...



I wouldn't disagree, the problem is underspecced systems and people believing the system will do what it can't do. ( unrealistic expectations)

My own thoughts are if you spend a lot of time in the van, it is an extra reassurance re self sustainability.

 For a couple of hundred pounds is it better to have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it ?

 To a certain extent solar panels are less effective when you need them most . i.e this time of year.

 There are things to consider, preserving juice rather than jump in with a panel eg Led Lights.

 A lot depends on peoples lifestyle on the road. If you need your fix of Emmerdale etc naturally your consumption is different.

 Overall I think they are a useful addition.

Shade, Refractive angle of the sun, temperature, type of controller, thought applied to the installation ( cable runs etc) all play their part. Very much a cumulative effect.

Channa


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## runnach (Dec 15, 2016)

2cv said:


> There is a cost to the solar in a similar way to the alternator. Which would prove larger is impossible to say, probably depends on mileage covered. The panel will add form drag and will also have some weight, thus affecting fuel consumption.



That is a true observation , hard to challenge. Motorhomes a lot at least have aerodynamics of a brick. Space considerations and extra weight of additional batteries I suppose you would take in account too if you were to attempt to calculate whole life costings.

I think the only " argument " to counter is how may people run about on underinflated tyres, or have engines inadequately serviced. If we are trying to maximise a theoretical efficiency.

Channa


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## Nesting Zombie (Dec 15, 2016)

Absolutely agree, & am right there with you on that Matey.
Lets not loose sight of the fact that you can buy and install a cheap as chips Solar panel, Chuck it on your roof and chances are it will produce something useable.
But it Wont necessarily be as efficient as a Quality Panel, Matched to your needs, Installed Correctly, REGULARLY CLEANED, In a Prime Position At the optimal Orientation to the sun, With Tracking facilities, & You then Limit your Park ups to South Facing areas with Un interrupted 180 degree view.
Its simply all about Efficiency !.
But you can see why some people are For, & Some are Against a Solar installation on a moving Platform cant you.


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## Beemer (Dec 15, 2016)

Mick H said:


> If it was as simple as you suggest, then I would have gone down that route, a long time ago.
> 
> On today, as an example, solar would NOT recharge my batteries. The daylight is limited, and the cloud cover makes output from solar useless.



I was answering the OPs request, however, it is simple (for me, in my opinion, and with my set up) and I did go down that route a long time ago. 
It all depends on so many factors if it suits you or not, but generally, solar power is a very convenient system, but like everyone/everything, it has its limitations.
I have seen batteries charging on limited light during the winter, so to call solar panels rubbish is ridiculous.


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## RoadTrek Boy (Dec 15, 2016)

2cv said:


> There is a cost to the solar in a similar way to the alternator. Which would prove larger is impossible to say, probably depends on mileage covered. The panel will add form drag and will also have some weight, thus affecting fuel consumption.



I think the extra drag of solar panels on our mobile bricks isn't going to make that much difference, but the extra load on the engine due to a fully loaded alternator and associated losses will.
I agree the extra weight will, I would like to fit a solar panel, but don't know at this stage if I need one, if not needed then pointless fitting one.


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## runnach (Dec 15, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Absolutely agree, & am right there with you on that Matey.
> Lets not loose sight of the fact that you can buy and install a cheap as chips Solar panel, Chuck it on your roof and chances are it will produce something useable.
> But it Wont necessarily be as efficient as a Quality Panel, Matched to your needs, Installed in a Prime Position At the optimal Orientation to the sun, With Tracking facilities. Its simply all about Efficiency !.
> But you can see why some people are For, & Some are Against a Solar installation on a moving Platform cant you.



There is a lot of investment going on at the moment in a commercial sense re solar in the leisure industry. A haven site in Cornwall has a solar farm ,feeds in during the day and take out at night. Ultimately reducing energy costs. Will this idea spread to sites where private owners can take advantage? . Could one of the big clubs in our world take advantage ? all interesting stuff.

I worked for a major tour operator and in the south of France we experimented running aircon units via solar power. Aircon units have a large inrush current on start up, but after that use little electric and are extremely efficient cooling and heating. ( in fact new gear is measured using seasonal energy efficiency ratios).

One  Uk company has taken it further using the heat dissipated , and instead of chucking it outside use it to heat water.

All of it IMHO in its infancy like where cars were in 1910, but as technology advances we will all hopefully benefit 

Channa


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## ashbyspannerman (Dec 15, 2016)

As for parking in the shade in summer time, I think of mine as being similar to the old landrover 'safari' roof, which was basically a double skinned roof, my panels are over my bedroom!


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## Nesting Zombie (Dec 15, 2016)

ashbyspannerman said:


> As for parking in the shade in summer time, I think of mine as being similar to the old landrover 'safari' roof, which was basically a double skinned roof, my panels are over my bedroom!




That just looks Brilliant doesn't it,, Perfect fit.


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## ashbyspannerman (Dec 15, 2016)

I'm very happy with how they went on, two 175 watt panels, still in two minds whether to take the panels off the old van and put those on as well, probably be overkill! the yellow van has two 100 watt panels and 3 110 ah batteries, the daily charge is not a lot at the moment but still enough to keep the fridge going!


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 15, 2016)

*Hmm, I have a theory ...*

Having taken delivery of my controller, the first thing I did after unpacking it was to read the destructions.  Sadly, they were printed in a ridiculously small font so after a great deal of squinting my eyes and arm stretching I ran them through my printer and enlarged them x2.

Now that I can read them easily, I was having a wee look when I noticed something I find interesting amongst the user adjustable settings.  There is a pair of settings relating to the working load output designed for use with lighting etc.  It states in the bumff that "The controller will enter into a state of 'Low Voltage Protection' ... blah blah blah ... the load is disconnected to prevent over dis-charging the battery ... blah blah blah ... At this time you need to charge the battery.  When the battery voltage reaches the 'Low Voltage Recovery' the output will re-start."

Now, at present I have no intention of using the load output for my lighting because I use a Colman LED lantern that was a gift from my daughter a number of years ago and I usually go to bed when it gets dark and read my kindle which has it's own back lighting.  So, why not make use of this output as a charger for my main engine battery (or to switch a relay which will divert the charge from the LB to my main battery.)  In my mind this could be done quite easily.  

1. It could be a simple matter of setting the threshold for the *'LOW'* voltage to let's say 12.6v (just a guess at the moment, but basically when the LB is fully, or very near fully, charged) and the *'RECOVERY'* voltage to 12.8v (fractionally higher than the Low setting.)  I reckon (assuming that these parameters are available) that what would happen would be the output to the MB would switch off if the LB voltage drops even by a small amount, but when it returns to a full state of charge then the output would switch on and any excess charge from the solar panel which the LB no longer needs can go to the MB instead.

Now, I accept that this theory depends on having a wide enough range of adjustment to the 'Low Voltage Protection' setting and will probably require a little trial and error adjustment of that setting to get the desired result, but, in theory, I see no reason why this wouldn't work as a dual battery system!

2. The second method is much the same as the first but use the output to operate a relay which would switch the full output from the solar panel to the MB or (in my case, thanks to the simple home-made split charge relay I am using) use the output to activate the relay and bring the MB into the same bank as the LB as if charging both from the alternator.  Then, in theory, if your MB is low it will get a booster charge from the LB and solar panel until your LB charge lowers (depending on where you set the 'Low Voltage Protection') ... IMHO I'd rather have a fully charged MB, even if at the expense of my LB having a lesser charge.

Alternatively, instead of setting up the solar energy to charge primarily the LB, connect it all to charge and maintain the MB with any excess charge then being passed to the LB (using the techniques above) ... to me this makes more sense as I am NOT dependent upon my LB but having a fully charged MB could save a life!

At the risk of causing a fight.  What do y'all think?

I should add that I intend to fit the panel on my roof rack and making some sort of four-way hinge & tilt arrangement.


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## mistericeman (Dec 15, 2016)

ashbyspannerman said:


> As for parking in the shade in summer time, I think of mine as being similar to the old landrover 'safari' roof, which was basically a double skinned roof, my panels are over my bedroom!



Tut Tut..... "safari roof"  indeed.... pedant hat on.... it's a "Double skinned Tropical roof"  
As fitted to my series 2a station wagon ;-) 






Joking apart the air gap between the dual skins OR solar panels and van roof can make, a huge difference to comfort levels inside the vehicle... something you don't get with the sticky flexible solars.... in fact I'd imagine they can be the equivalent of painting your roof partially black.


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## Mick H (Dec 15, 2016)

maingate said:


> There seems to be something you have all forgotten ... and that is a battery will be able to undergo a limited number of discharges before it fails.
> 
> Yes, you can manage for a few days without a solar panel. count that as one battery discharge. They will soon build up and you need to fork out for a new battery (batteries). 2 decent batteries cost about the same as a solar panel kit. Fit solar and it should extend the life of your batteries. The Numax batteries on my last van were 6 years old when I sold the van and behaved just as good as the day they were fitted. I can only remember one time when the EBL system alarm went off on low voltage and that was due to 3 days of Fog.



Whilst I agree about battery discharge, Just for the record, on my own van, the starter battery is now over 11 years old, and the leisure batteries are over 10 years old, and are still going strong, without solar power. Keeping a regular check on battery levels, and making sure that they receive a sufficient, constant charge is the key.


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## Mick H (Dec 15, 2016)

RoadTrek Boy said:


> Having read through this thread, nobody has mentioned the fact that charging your batteries using the alternator costs fuel even when moving to a different location, at least the government is not taxing sunshine yet! So once paid for and fitted any energy you get from it doesn't cost any more.
> I haven't got solar, but hope to one day. :drive::camper::have fun:



Unfortunately, it does cost, in terms of reduced fuel efficiency, whenever you move the van. The weight, combined with the aerodynamic reduction, is why.
In my view, they are similar to driving around with an empty roofrack, and the info on the effect of these, is well documented.
True, the alternator also uses fuel, as do extra batteries. There is seldom something for nothing, but alternators are much more reliable, as a constant power source, and even work at night.


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## ashbyspannerman (Dec 15, 2016)

Mick H said:


> Unfortunately, it does cost, in terms of reduced fuel efficiency, whenever you move the van. The weight, combined with the aerodynamic reduction, is why.
> In my view, they are similar to driving around with an empty roofrack, and the info on the effect of these, is well documented.
> True, the alternator also uses fuel, as do extra batteries. There is seldom something for nothing, but alternators are much more reliable, as a constant power source, and even work at night.



I'd better take em off then! as I already get between 35 and 37 mpg from my van with panels and big spotlights who knows what i'd get? Obviously there is some drag but I really don't think it amounts to a noticable amount, look at the roof off my van, all ribs and strenghtening panels, very unaerodynamic, look at my lovely smooth glass panels!


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## maingate (Dec 15, 2016)

Mick H said:


> Whilst I agree about battery discharge, Just for the record, on my own van, the starter battery is now over 11 years old, and the leisure batteries are over 10 years old, and are still going strong, without solar power. Keeping a regular check on battery levels, and making sure that they receive a sufficient, constant charge is the key.



I agree with what you say, it is all down to a bit of care and maintenance. Sadly, Leisure batteries are often out of sight and out of mind.


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## ashbyspannerman (Dec 15, 2016)

maingate said:


> I agree with what you say, it is all down to a bit of care and maintenance. Sadly, Leisure batteries are often out of sight and out of mind.



I agree too, that's why I've gone 'old skool' with 2 numax 225ah non sealed batteries, I have a Sterling B2B charger when running and the solar panels when not, so a regular part of maintainance will be checking the electolyte levels!


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## Bikeralw (Dec 15, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> Tut Tut..... "safari roof"  indeed.... pedant hat on.... it's a "Double skinned Tropical roof"
> As fitted to my series 2a station wagon ;-)
> 
> 
> ...



Is that picture taken down Ashwood Dale??


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## mistericeman (Dec 15, 2016)

Bikeralw said:


> Is that picture taken down Ashwood Dale??



On the access road to BLF (Buxton lime Firm) Egyptian styled lime kilns just off the A6 near to Buxton. 

;-)


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## colinm (Dec 15, 2016)

I see the subject of shading and temperature has been mentioned, on a thread back in the summer I said I would experiment on shading and post the results. Well I did some experiments but there where so many variables that I gave up, not least because I have no 'clever' meter wired in and have to do it all old school.
Anyway, the limited results I did get where somewhere in line with my expectations, i.e. shading from trees etc might not have as massive effect as some would tell you, the plain simple fact is a panel can have 100% shading and still produce 'some' power even if it's a small amount, the only time the panel produces no power is when light levels fall to very low levels, or the panel (or parts of it) are covered such that no light reaches it.
What are the practicalities of this? Well with my set up, on a bright summers day I can park in the shade of a building and still get a reasonable output from the panel, but park ,literally under, a low hanging tree and there will be a big impact, I did notice this week an interesting result, on monday it was heavily overcast with no sign of the sun and light rain, I had driven the van the day before for 15mins and only used a tiny amount of power overnight (switched on led light checked all was secure then light off and locked up), the charge controller was flashing and on checking the battery was full at max charge, ok if i'd watched a couple of hours tv it would have been down but it illustrates that even under severe conditions a tiny bit of power is produced.
As for high panel temperature, this should only be of concern to those with house panels getting FIT where you would like to extract every bit of power. If you have a balanced set up on a van in most instances where high temps effect output, the panels will have already topped up the batteries, and then the panels would only be supplying a compressor fridge if you have one of these.


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## Bikeralw (Dec 15, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> On the access road to BLF (Buxton lime Firm) Egyptian styled lime kilns just off the A6 near to Buxton.
> 
> ;-)


Thought so, I live about 2 miles from that spot! One of those kilns was demolished recently, disgraceful.
Al.


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## maingate (Dec 15, 2016)

I managed to use a freestanding solar panel for about 5 years without it getting stolen (as many think is inevitable). It's output was much higher than a flat panel on a motorhome roof. I was able to work out the optimum angle to use on the panel. This angle varied according to the time of year but was easily done with the use of this little gizmo (which I still use today)

400mm Automotive Current Tester Maxi Blade | Maplin

What I also discovered that on a dull day without sunshine, the freestanding panel should just be laid flat. There is no advantage by propping it up. Conversely, in the middle of Winter, propping up the panel improved the input by a huge amount compared to a flat panel. I have had 4 amps from a 90 watt panel on a clear sunny morning in late January (mind you, the batteries were probably about 40% discharged.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 15, 2016)

maingate said:


> I managed to use a freestanding solar panel for about 5 years without it getting stolen (as many think is inevitable). It's output was much higher than a flat panel on a motorhome roof. I was able to work out the optimum angle to use on the panel. This angle varied according to the time of year but was easily done with the use of this little gizmo (which I still use today)
> 
> 400mm Automotive Current Tester Maxi Blade | Maplin
> 
> What I also discovered that on a dull day without sunshine, the freestanding panel should just be laid flat. There is no advantage by propping it up. Conversely, in the middle of Winter, propping up the panel improved the input by a huge amount compared to a flat panel. I have had 4 amps from a 90 watt panel on a clear sunny morning in late January (mind you, the batteries were probably about 40% discharged.



Yep ... my intention is to mount the panel on my roof rack and botch up some sort of four-way tilting/hinging arrangement enabling me to park facing any which way but to maximise my capture of any/all available solar energy.  I will be able to monitor the output with my Fluke multimeter.


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## maingate (Dec 15, 2016)

People have used these window hinges for solar panels.

Upvc Window Hardware Parts Window Lock Rods Handles And Window Hinges


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 15, 2016)

maingate said:


> I managed to use a freestanding solar panel for about 5 years without it getting stolen (as many think is inevitable). It's output was much higher than a flat panel on a motorhome roof. I was able to work out the optimum angle to use on the panel. This angle varied according to the time of year but was easily done with the use of this little gizmo (which I still use today)
> 
> 400mm Automotive Current Tester Maxi Blade | Maplin
> 
> What I also discovered that on a dull day without sunshine, the freestanding panel should just be laid flat. There is no advantage by propping it up. Conversely, in the middle of Winter, propping up the panel improved the input by a huge amount compared to a flat panel. I have had 4 amps from a 90 watt panel on a clear sunny morning in late January (mind you, the batteries were probably about 40% discharged.



This was the major factor behind my original plan to have it free standing, but I reckon I can make a four-way hinge & tilt arrangement without too much difficulty.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 15, 2016)

maingate said:


> People have used these window hinges for solar panels.
> 
> Upvc Window Hardware Parts Window Lock Rods Handles And Window Hinges



I was thinking along the lines of a base with one (or two) "legs" which will allow the panel to hinge up from the roof and at the top a similar arrangement to allow four-way tilting.  Then add a piece (or two) of chain to secure the panel to the roof so that quick and easy removal wouldn't be easy for security.

Sorry, drawing was never my strong point, but I think you'll see what I mean from the picture:




And when not in use or travelling, the whole thing will lie flat and secured inside the roof rack channel pretty much keeping it out of sight except from above.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 17, 2016)

Auld Pharrrt said:


> Having taken delivery of my controller, the first thing I did after unpacking it was to read the destructions.  Sadly, they were printed in a ridiculously small font so after a great deal of squinting my eyes and arm stretching I ran them through my printer and enlarged them x2.
> 
> Now that I can read them easily, I was having a wee look when I noticed something I find interesting amongst the user adjustable settings.  There is a pair of settings relating to the working load output designed for use with lighting etc.  It states in the bumff that "The controller will enter into a state of 'Low Voltage Protection' ... blah blah blah ... the load is disconnected to prevent over dis-charging the battery ... blah blah blah ... At this time you need to charge the battery.  When the battery voltage reaches the 'Low Voltage Recovery' the output will re-start."
> 
> ...



Well, I've been playing with my controller which arrived a couple of days ago but, as yet, I haven't got my panel.  Anyway, I dug out an old 12v motorbike battery that has been lying in the bottom of a cupboard for a couple of years, it was showing 2.26v when I checked it with my multimeter a couple of days ago, so I put it on a trickle charger and left it on "Maintain" for a couple of days.  Upon checking it this morning I was happy to note that it seems to have recovered enough to hold at least some charge.  This evening I wired it into my controller so I could play with the controller settings.

First thing I was looking at was the setting to stop charging at 14.7v (default setting) but this is adjustable.

I found this default setting interesting.  It coincides with the voltage readings I get from my MB and LB in the van when the engine is running.  I have separate voltage meters wired to each battery and the dashboard one which shows the voltage of my MB (and LB when the split charger is active.)  From monitoring this during a journey, I noted that the reading when engine is running varies from about 14.2 to 14.7 (assuming no other electrics are in use.)  As I watch the readings, they rise fairly quickly and steadily from the lower 14.2v to about 14.5v at which stage the rise slows down and gradually creeps up to 14.6v and eventually to 14.7v on a long journey.  Therefore, I surmise from this that once the battery, or batteries, are reaching maximum charge the current (which is controlled by the alternator circuits) is reduced to prevent over cooking the batteries.  The controller, obviously is set to stop charging at this point also.  Therefore I think my assumptions are good.

Now, referring to my earlier post as quoted above.  I have been playing with the "Low Voltage Protection" (default 10.5v) and "Low Voltage Recovery" (default 12.2v) settings and as expected, the Load Output (including the two USB sockets) is disabled if the LB battery falls below the "LVP" but re-enables once the battery reaches the "LVR" and, as it happens, the default setting for the Load Output is ON.  I also noticed when playing with the settings, that there has to be a minimum of 0.5v between the "LVP" and the "LPR."

Therefore, when parked up and without alternator assistance, (assuming perfect sunshine and plenty of it etc.) if I set my "LVP" quite high (I'm thinking in the region of 14.1v, which is roughly what the LB would be showing at fairly close to fully charged, but I will need to monitor this a bit more in order to guesstimate a better value) and then set my "LPR" to something in the region on 14.6v (just below the overcharge protection kicks in) then any excess juice coming from the solar panel will be diverted to the load output which could be connected directly to the MB and would give it a little trickle of juice to keep it well maintained.  As mentioned above, instead of diverting the charge to the MB via the Load Output, I could also use this to switch a relay so that the entire charge from the panel goes to the MB, which would be more efficient as the overcharge protection would still be active.  As mentioned above, I have no other use for the load output because I don't have lighting apart from the vehicle's own courtesy lights and an LED lantern which has it's own rechargeable battery, but the USB's will most likely get used for phone, lantern recharge and Kindle from time to time.

I can see no reason why this wouldn't work, but would be grateful to read any other opinions on it.

All the parameters mentioned above will have to be experimented with as it will depend upon the output from the solar panel, which I don't have to play with yet which will have to wait until we get some decent summery sunshine to play with.  When that time comes, I will either update this post or start a new post for anyone interested ... knowing me, I'll probably do both.


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## 2cv (Dec 18, 2016)

Im no expert and maybe this is too simple for some, but I found this website very useful regarding batteries and their charging and maintenance Battery Basics: A Layman's Guide to Batte | BatteryStuff Articles


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 24, 2016)

Auld Pharrrt said:


> I was thinking along the lines of a base with one (or two) "legs" which will allow the panel to hinge up from the roof and at the top a similar arrangement to allow four-way tilting.  Then add a piece (or two) of chain to secure the panel to the roof so that quick and easy removal wouldn't be easy for security.
> 
> Sorry, drawing was never my strong point, but I think you'll see what I mean from the picture:
> 
> ...



Well, so much for that idea ... I thought it was too easy.  Once my panel arrived, I realised how heavy these things are, the size was as expected, but it is considerably heavier than expected.  Sooo...... after a re-think, the panel is still going to be fitted in the channel of my roof rack (which has to be adjusted by about ½" to accommodate it) but instead of my original home made 4-way hinging arrangement I have had to have a re-think and decided to simplify things and do it follows.

I quickly came up with the idea to lay the panel flat inside the two L-shaped sides which form the channel on my roof rack.  At each end (front and rear) I will fit two sliding bolts like this,  but without the staple bit ... then I will drill matching holes in the sides of the channel.  Therefore, by releasing either end, I can tilt the panel to the front or the rear (there will be a leg of some sort to support the raised end and something to secure it in case of wind.)  I might add security in the form of padlocks or padlock and chain here.

This left me with the problem of trying to tilt the panel side to side should I need to.  Eventually, after a lot of racking my brain, I thought of those lift off hinges you can get for some doors (I'm hoping I can get four smallish ones) ... these things ...  ... I think these will work, two on each side and positioned near either end.  Then, when I want to tilt the panel forward or backward, I release all the bolts and slide it off the hinges, re position it without engaging the hinges and close the bolts on one end, lifting the other end up to tilt it into the sun.  But, if I want to tilt it to the side, then release all the bolts, slide it out of the hinges and re position it whilst engaging the hinges on one side only.  When traveling, simply engage all 4 hinges and bolts.

Seeemples (I think.)  I'll let you know once I get around to buying the hardware and getting it all in place.

P.S. Upon arrival of the panel, I connected it up to my controller and an old 12v bike battery and was getting almost 0.5 amps from it in my livingroom in normal daylight. So I'm looking forward to seeing what it provides in summer.


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## wildebus (Dec 24, 2016)

An interesting thread 

I'm not going to try to persuade anyone one way or the other, but this what I found ....


Pair of 100aH batteries, matched and installed in a balanced configuration:
From full charge, they give me around 3 full days with compressor fridge/freezer on. If I were to use other devices as well (TV, lights, etc), would obviously be less and don't think would get through a long weekend at a festival (Thursday late afternoon to Sunday afternoon)
With solar, the batteries maintain enough juice to not have to worry about the fridge and using other stuff at all, including inverter and extra external lighting for gazebo.

When home, I just leave it (fridge/freezer) running in the summer so always available at zero notice without having to plug in mains. In winter, fridge turned off as not needed, but solar keeps batteries maintained, and trickle charges starter battery.

Rigid 100W Solar Panels x 2:
Fixed to cross bars mounted on roof rails and raised off roof.  As discussed by a couple of people, this gives a double-skin effect and keeps Sun from heating roof; plus stops rain drumming down in that area; and keeps panels cooler as well, so a win-win-win there.

Did consider tilting options and may still do so but fit and forget is much simpler  end of the day the idea is to enjoy with minimal fuss after all, but if l were looking to full-time and park up for a week or longer, then would implement a tilting setup or a way to deploy extra panels (I actually know how I would do this now if I had a need to  )


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## mistericeman (Dec 24, 2016)

wildebus said:


> An interesting thread
> 
> I'm not going to try to persuade anyone one way or the other, but this what I found ....
> 
> ...



Exactly what we have found... summertime the panels keep the batteries nicely topped up even with the variable speed compressor running all the time so ready go at a moments notice (I even keep the fridge filled with beer ;-). 
Wintertime the panels do nine tenths of cock all BUT they weren't the most expensive of panels so maybe get what you pay for? 
we move around each day so split charger, does the bulk of the work anyway. 
But we can happily manage for two weeks around Scotland using inverter powering microwave/kettle/slow cooker/toaster without using hook up or needing to use a gennie.


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## IanH (Dec 25, 2016)

Auld Pharrrt said:


> Well, so much for that idea ... I thought it was too easy.  Once my panel arrived, I realised how heavy these things are, the size was as expected, but it is considerably heavier than expected.  Sooo...... after a re-think, the panel is still going to be fitted in the channel of my roof rack (which has to be adjusted by about ½" to accommodate it) but instead of my original home made 4-way hinging arrangement I have had to have a re-think and decided to simplify things and do it follows.
> 
> I quickly came up with the idea to lay the panel flat inside the two L-shaped sides which form the channel on my roof rack.  At each end (front and rear) I will fit two sliding bolts like this, View attachment 49486 but without the staple bit ... then I will drill matching holes in the sides of the channel.  Therefore, by releasing either end, I can tilt the panel to the front or the rear (there will be a leg of some sort to support the raised end and something to secure it in case of wind.)  I might add security in the form of padlocks or padlock and chain here.
> 
> ...



Auld Pharrt, I have no desire to criticise your plans, what you do, or wish to do is entirely up to you

HOWEVER!!

You seem to me to be creating a non essential mountain from a very small molehill!, And I reckon you will spend an inordinate amount of time in the future with this system you have in mind

It will also, realistically, not work. Here is why. Angling the panels towards the sun, at, one hopes, your angle of latitiude minus 12 degrees local, will work but only for a very short time as the sun will "move" (the sun doesn't actually move, we do) accross your panel so unless you are prepared to move your vehicle heading every hour or two you will see no real benefit

You have chosen a panel which is very heavy, too late now, you already have it. Just mount it horizontally and fix it to your roofrack bars. If still unhappy, then buy another one and do the same to it. You will then have way exceeded the amount of energy you will receive form trying to angle just the one.

Ours  is only 3Kg, semi flexible and is glued to the roof, hasn't blown away yet!! It's 100w and we NEVER hook-up.

Sorry if sounding scathing but you are making a rod for your back!

Bw
IanH


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## ashbyspannerman (Dec 25, 2016)

It is possible to get a much better charge if you angle your panels in the winter, in the summer I really wouldn't bother, as for making the ability to tilt four ways I think you're over complicating it, the panels are fitted on a movable vehicle!!!


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 25, 2016)

IanH said:


> Auld Pharrt, I have no desire to criticise your plans, what you do, or wish to do is entirely up to you
> 
> HOWEVER!!
> 
> ...



Hi Ian,
Rather than feeling critisised by your comment, I appreciate your comments and input.  I'm completely new to solar energy and bought it to play with.  I noted an earlier post about the increase in efficiency when tilted so I thought I'd give it a go. But, as I originally mentioned, I have no real need for solar but wanted to experiment with it.
When the time comes to get it up on my roof, I will monitor it's performance and experiment with tilting it to see just how much difference it makes and if I decide the increase is worth the extra messing about then I have an idea to hand which I can incorporate later.
So thank you, you have certainly given me food for thought. 

Cheers.

Ron.


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## wildman (Dec 25, 2016)

There is no better addition to a motorhome than a solar panel. If you are not a heavy TV user like me then 100W is ample to keep your battery charged. Mine are fully charged summer and winter without hookup, and one pair of batteries rely soley on solar. Go for it, by the way folding stand outside panels may well be more efficient but they are only charging when you put them out, if you leave the van they will probably be taken in for fear of them being pinched hence they will seldom be out.


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## El Veterano (Dec 26, 2016)

Without doubt the best thing I ever added to the MH was a solar panel. The next best thing was to change all the hab light bulbs to LED and the next best thing was then an LED TV, not that we watch it all that much anyway.


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## Asterix (Dec 26, 2016)

I've noticed a lot more MHs this year with tilting panels,but the majority seem to only tilt one direction,so there may be times when you can only park a certain way so it's left flat. Often parks will give you the option to park in the best direction for tilting  so it may still be somewhat of a compromise but trying to get a four way tilt may be an overcomplicated step too far. I'll certainly be looking at it as an option for my next MH,but with only one tilt direction.


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## malagaoth (Dec 26, 2016)

Auld Pharrt I tend to agree with Ian you are trying to solve a problem that doesnt really exist although horizontal isnt optimal it will gather light which ever way you face and what ever the angle of the sun above the horizon  once you start aiming the panel yes it will be more efficient but unless you are going to have some sort of motorised tracking system  your heart will be broke constantly adjusting it.

generally you will want to point it east at sun set so it catches the sunrise and then in mid morning move it around to south east then at lunch time swing it around to south etc etc you have it pointing east when the sun is at the west and you will severely restrict the efficiency  - far worse than having it lying flat.



On my house I have two sets of panels one set faces east and the other set west my neighbour whose house is on a different alignment has his all facing south, mid afternoon he generates much more than I do BUT I get power a couple of hours before and after his stops so although in theory his a more optimal system taken over a summers day the total output isnt much different



for my two penneth get the biggest panel you can fit lay it flat forget about it and live with the fact that if you were to spend your waking hours constantly moving the panels you would get even more free leccy


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## maingate (Dec 26, 2016)

I'm afraid that some of you have got it wrong.

It is not necessary to keep moving an inclined panel every half hour. If it is set up in advance of the travel of the Sun, it is a long time before it needs moving again.

I used a freestanding panel for more than 5 years and checked output with an Ammeter. The variation is minimal. Oh yes, just to add that nobody ever stole my panel in all that time.   I agree that it can be prudent to put the panel away when taking the dogs for a walk but overall, the net gain for the time the panel is out more than makes up for a flat fixed panel, especially when the days are shorter.


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## wildebus (Dec 26, 2016)

If I were the OP in his current situation, I would make up a pair of wooden legs and bolt them onto to the ends and basically play around with position and angles with the panel in the garden just to see the difference it makes.

It is important to get a decent load on the battery though of course, as if you are close to fully charged, you will see no difference.
For my first testing a while back, I used a basic coolbox drawing a constant 4A or so as a control and put the panels in the sun when batteries at a certain point.


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## malagaoth (Dec 26, 2016)

> It is not necessary to keep moving an inclined panel every half hour


Not every half hour but if you want optimum performance then certainly at least twice  and more likely three times per day.

Ideally you want the panel at 90 degress to the sun, once it gets around to 45degrees you are losing a lot of sun

If you face the panel due south (optimum for midday) in summer months it will be mid morning before the sun is striking the panel at anything other than oblique angle indeed in the  early morning it will be behind the panel and hence the panel will be in its own shadow and of course a similar situation pertains in the evening.

And of course if you want absolute best performance then the angle of inclination is also important depending on season and latitude the optimum tilt (in the UK) can be anything between about 25 degrees  and 65 degrees  further south and horizontal might be as near as damn it optimal.

As I say I think people are worrying unduely, but it up flat and forget about it - the the summer months the hours when it is generating whilst you are still in bed (and your adjustable panel is stowed away) will make up most of the short fall and in the winter most days it will be making so little it wont matter (twice sod all still isnt a whole lot)


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## Auld Pharrrt (Dec 27, 2016)

maingate said:


> I'm afraid that some of you have got it wrong.
> 
> It is not necessary to keep moving an inclined panel every half hour. If it is set up in advance of the travel of the Sun, it is a long time before it needs moving again.
> 
> I used a freestanding panel for more than 5 years and checked output with an Ammeter. The variation is minimal. Oh yes, just to add that nobody ever stole my panel in all that time.   I agree that it can be prudent to put the panel away when taking the dogs for a walk but overall, the net gain for the time the panel is out more than makes up for a flat fixed panel, especially when the days are shorter.



I must admit, my own opinion is that it won't do any harm to be able to tilt the panel if I have a reason to do so, also the stronger light source has to be better, I was planning on being able to tilt it in the general direction of the sun's course as it pans across the sky. If I had gone for free standing (which I did consider) I'd have put it up on the roof out of harm's way.

My main reasons for posting my plans are threefold. 
1. To share ideas with anyone daft enough (like me) who wants to try it.  
2. To gain insight from others' experience.   
3. To see if anyone has an easier or simpler solution.

Please, bear in mind from the beginning I have said that I don't really believe that I need solar power, but it will be a positive impact on my wilding, albeit a small impact.   Also, with so many threads on the subject and a great many conflicting opinions coming out of them I feel that having "played" with a basic set up I will gain a little knowledge on the subject.  Finally, as mentioned before, I lurve overkill "MORRRE POWEEERRRR".


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## maingate (Dec 27, 2016)

We use C&CC THS frequently, so I used to set up the freestanding panel in the direction of the sunrise. By the time we were up, washed and breakfasted, the batteries were fully charged. I don't recommend this method if you like to use car parks in urban areas.  It would be fine to do this when wildcamping if you are selective where you overnight. As I said earlier, I never had the panal stolen.


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## trevskoda (Dec 27, 2016)

I have 2 big 100w panels flat on the roof and they work just fine,im getting a charge even in over cast sky and batts are always charged so not worth the hastle plus i can drive of any time.


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## IanH (Dec 27, 2016)

malagaoth said:


> Auld Pharrt I tend to agree with Ian you are trying to solve a problem that doesnt really exist although horizontal isnt optimal it will gather light which ever way you face and what ever the angle of the sun above the horizon  once you start aiming the panel yes it will be more efficient but unless you are going to have some sort of motorised tracking system  your heart will be broke constantly adjusting it.
> 
> generally you will want to point it east at sun set so it catches the sunrise and then in mid morning move it around to south east then at lunch time swing it around to south etc etc you have it pointing east when the sun is at the west and you will severely restrict the efficiency  - far worse than having it lying flat.
> 
> ...



There is another consideration I've not seen mentioned yet:-

Our MAIN reason for the solar panel is to keep both batteries fully charged at all times, ESPECIALLY at home where its not on hook-up (well, it's never on hook up but that's another thing!)

We can go away for weeks without MH and when we come home all is fully charged and ready.

I agree that just fitting 2 panels horizontally instead of one angled to the sun (briefly and occasionally) is a lot more effective than p**sing about moving the thing all day!

I am of the school of someone I read in here "switch off igniton, rotate seats, fridge to gas, open red!!!!!!!!!!!!"


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## witzend (Dec 27, 2016)

Always best to try it and see what suits your needs maynot suit someone else if one dont do it after a trial you can think again


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