# POI criteria ...



## Canalsman

I'd like to suggest some ground rules for submission of POIs for addition to the database.

The intention behind these is to improve the quality and viability - and to make my life a bit easier!


*Check that any place you suggest has no restrictions on overnight parking, sleeping or camping. *This might be by bye-law or traffic regulation order (TRO). A TRO will be evidenced by a plate with white writing on a blue background, with yellow lines in some locations. *To carry out these checks you need to visit the location in person. Please confirm that you've done so.*
Be mindful of any intrusion on the privacy of local residents.
Check for any restrictions on size of vehicle or access and post details as appropriate.
If there's Pay & Display in use, please note the hours and costs.
If it's a layby that you're suggesting, please only submit these where they're separated from the road by a barrier of some sort to provide protection - ideally earth banks, trees, shrubs etc.
Laybys on A roads will not be added unless they meet the above criteria. Laybys on B roads and unclassified roads will be judged on their merits regarding separation from the carriageway.
Location coordinates are easiest to deal with if they're in degrees and decimal degrees e.g. 54.43476,-1.76538. It's also unambiguous. The minus indicates west of Greenwich Meridian. Google Maps links are very useful too.
If you are suggesting more than one location, please group the entries into a separate post per county. Remember the entries are moved into the appropriate county forum once I've vetted them.
And finally, please post a location name with the submission, not just the coordinates and/or Google Maps link. That makes it feasible to search for locations other than by using the POI files.

If any of the spots you submit are near you, or are passed by you on a regular basis, please 'take ownership' and keep an eye open for any changes. Please post updates accordingly.

Thanks for your help 

Regards

Chris


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## antiquesam

We did 8 weeks around the UK using mainly POI sites and had no difficulty, but there were a few that I wouldn't dream of using, mainly very close to private houses, on the principle that I wouldn't want someone camping outside my house.


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## sss

I quite like the database. It also adds a nice selling point of the forum when there are many others out there.

I do like the idea of asking people to confirm they have been to a location and not just done a google earth search. I find the database is a useful tool in trip planning but then I am also quite happy at parking up in a country lane layby as well as a rural forest retreat. It is important to understand that it is just a tool and not a guarantee of a nights stopover. A prime example of that was my plan A stopover a couple of months ago when the car park had become 'no camping' but we just went to plan B.

So I would like to keep it and we as users keep the database up to date with places that become unsuitable and when 'on the plot' we make ourselves unobtrusive as possible and leave no trace when we go.

Keep up the good work.


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## lotusanne

I agree that its a useful tool and I have found some great spots with it, as well as some that were now restricted.  I think it's important to check out potential POIs before you go on Google Earth and also you could post on the forum and get the advice and opinions of other members.  The very first POI I used chose after I had posted about good spots to camp with dogs and it was a brilliant spot. I appreciate its not always possible to know in advance where you are going (the joy of campervans!) so we have to use the POIs, our own eyes, common sense and be grateful for the good spots and philosophical about those that don't work out!


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## Beemer

basildog said:


> About time !
> As known by many personally I think the whole poi thing should be scrapped as in my opinion it is doing far more harm than good !
> I checked out many for a giggle while on our hols and all but one had some form of parking restriction and many were outside peoples houses in seaside locations so no wonder people are getting upset and banning motorhome parking ?
> It is up to you but many think as I do and I think you will live to regret doing it .



We must have been very lucky at all the POIs we have used.  Although, before we go to any of them we research the location on Google earth, then look for an alternative in the area.

As far as we are concerned we use the POIs as a guide, and 'scrapping' them would be a great shame.


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## Beemer

basildog said:


> Well the funny thing is that you are actually scrapping all the places by yourselves if you have noticed more and more places are getting no overnighting signs !
> If now all places have to be free of signs then about half of all poi`s will now need to be deleted as you can wipe off all national parks and most forestry comission land too !



I have not noticed the signs, perhaps because we infrequently use the POIs, and have not been 'wilding' since Easter when we stayed at one in Cheltenham, right next to the river, a super location.
How do you know that the signs are appearing because of the POI list on this forum?  Could be that it was going to happen anyway!


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## DRoader

Canalsman said:


> I'd like to suggest some ground rules for submission of POIs for addition to the database.
> 
> The intention behind these is to improve the quality and viability - and to make my life a bit easier!
> 
> 
> *Check that any place you suggest has no restrictions on overnight parking, sleeping or camping. *This might be by bye-law or traffic regulation order (TRO). A TRO will be evidenced by a plate with white writing on a blue background, with yellow lines in some locations. *To carry out these checks you need to visit the location in person. Please confirm that you've done so.*
> Be mindful of any intrusion on the privacy of local residents.
> Check for any restrictions on size of vehicle or access and post details as appropriate.
> If there's Pay & Display in use, please note the hours and costs.
> If it's a layby that you're suggesting, please only submit these where they're separated from the road by a barrier of some sort to provide protection. Better still, submit those that are separated by earth banks, trees, shrubs etc.
> Laybys on A roads will not normally be added unless they meet the above criteria. Laybys on B roads and unclassified roads will be judged on their merits.
> Location coordinates are easiest to deal with if they're in degrees and decimal degrees e.g. 54.43476,-1.76538. It's also unambiguous. The minus indicates west of Greenwich Meridian. Google Maps links are very useful too.
> If you are suggesting more than one location, please group the entries into a separate post per county. Remember the entries are moved into the appropriate county forum once I've vetted them.
> And finally, please post a location name with the submission, not just the coordinates and/or Google Maps link. That makes it feasible to search for locations other than by using the POI files.
> 
> If any of the spots you submit are near you, or are passed by you on a regular basis, please 'take ownership' and keep an eye open for any changes. Please post updates accordingly.
> 
> Thanks for your help
> 
> Regards
> 
> Chris



Hi Chris my thoughts for what they're worth. I agree with all the above especially the visiting a location in person. The one thing I would highlight is location coordinates. I have three formats on my satnav, which is what I would be using if actually there at the location. They are all slightly different with degrees and ' and ''. For some reason my satnav defaults to a slightly different format to that suggested. Problem?


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## scampa

DRoader said:


> Hi Chris my thoughts for what they're worth. I agree with all the above especially the visiting a location in person. The one thing I would highlight is location coordinates. *I have three formats on my satnav, which is what I would be using if actually there at the location. They are all slightly different with degrees and ' and ''. For some reason my satnav defaults to a slightly different format to that suggested.* Problem?



My satnav (TomTom) also defaults to the "wrong" settings, but only after I've updated it. It's a simple matter to re-set it to the correct co-ordinates via the menu, and it should stay like that until you next update it via your computer.

A smarter person than me may be able to tell us how to set the default permanently to the one that we'd like?


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## Canalsman

DRoader said:


> The one thing I would highlight is location coordinates. I have three formats on my satnav, which is what I would be using if actually there at the location. They are all slightly different with degrees and ' and ''. For some reason my satnav defaults to a slightly different format to that suggested. Problem?



No problem - but you'll almost certainly find that your satnav can display coordinates in a variety of ways ... have a poke around the options/preferences menu.

Regards

Chris


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## Ste

I've always taken the POI's as suggested spots. One mans happy place will be another's hell. 

They will come & go, but as long as we keep chris updated as best we can, why should there be a problem.

If there are so many that are now restricted, then Chris needs to know. We shouldn't find out about the problems when someone turns up the spend the night, surely there's enough of us on WC to cover most POI's. I for one, pass many local to me, and I have already raised concerns about one, which was then removed. Its not hard to do. And unless Phil/Chris will pay me to go check every POI, we need everyone to pitch in a little.


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## Firefox

I think we've all said and agreed many times before, the whole process is self limiting. These places are not just available through this site; there are other forums where some of the information is available for free. Added to that many other people who are not members of any camping forums do their own research via Google Street View.

It only takes a steady stream of visitors over a summer for local residents to make a noise, and very easy to see how communication and internet mapping tools can create that stream.


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## lotusanne

*Suggestion*

Just thinking, what about having a register of camping spots that are virtually wild?  I mean farmers fields etc where there are no facliities, but the farmer might make a small charge for staying overnight.  I know of a couple like this.  It means that a) you don't have to worry about whether the POI db is up to date etc, and b) that you can relax about staying somewhere for a few nights.  So different circumstances than when you just want to find somewhere to overnight.  I would be happy to pay a few pounds for this peace of mind, but really prefer not to stay on campsites with the rules and regulations and the need to book in advance and the facilities that I dont need or want.


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## Footpad

*No Overnight Sleeping Signs.*

I worked for over 30 years as a countryside manager for the National Trust, the major reason for these signs in remote countryside sites is to help with managing travellers (large groups of full time wildcampers who are often associated with mess, long term occupation and antisocial behaviour). I take a pride in collecting any litter that was there before I came and never leave any other evidence of my occupation. My view is that if you can't tell I spent the night there I have done no harm and I will continue to use such sites sign or no sign.


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## ellieloy

*POI's are great*

We have only been motorhoming for two years - tho stopped off out of necessity in cars prior to this.
We have found the POI system a help and have used it many times as we travel to Scotland about 8 times a year.
Our main reason for using these places is that we travel with dogs and campsites are not suitable places for us to stay (we dont want our dogs - who will bark if disturbed - to spoil anyones holidays)
We also have adopted tennagers with Asperger Syndrome and over the years it has been hard to manage compulsive behaviours and anxieties and outbursts in public environments. POI's helped us in that they tend to be quiet and away from the crowds, thus lessening anxiety and enabling us to follow our own necessary routines.
We have never found any of the POI's to have no overnighting signs, we have never parked close to houses, and have only ever stayed one night - taking our rubbish away with us! We have met other wild campers (who are not members of this club, but who have been doing it for years with tents, caravans and campers) who have all agreed that if you cause no trouble and leave the place clean and tidy no one seems to mind.
Two places that were off the beaten track recently had two other campers and ourselves, but on the whole for the reasons given and so as not to overload areas we would usually try to camp alone.
POI's give us the freedom we so need and were our main reason for joining this group


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## barryd

I think the guidlines are a good idea.  I definately try and check them out on google earth/maps/streetview though first as some people will sleep anywhere!

Ive said this before but I do wish they could be extended to the rest of Europe.  I spent half the year over the water as do many others.

Leo (The Belgian / Flemming) who doesnt come on here much anymore (actually last I heard he was ill, hope hes recovered) spent years compiling wild spots on here and posting them for the whole of Europe.  Are they still on here?  I saved loads of his years ago and have visited many but tend to use Camping car infos now for Europe but are still discovering new spots all over Europe every week!

Just a thought.


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## Deleted member 967

barryd said:


> I think the guidlines are a good idea.  I definately try and check them out on google earth/maps/streetview though first as some people will sleep anywhere!
> 
> Ive said this before but I do wish they could be extended to the rest of Europe.  I spent half the year over the water as do many others.
> 
> Leo (The Belgian / Flemming) who doesnt come on here much anymore (actually last I heard he was ill, hope hes recovered) spent years compiling wild spots on here and posting them for the whole of Europe.  Are they still on here?  I saved loads of his years ago and have visited many but tend to use Camping car infos now for Europe but are still discovering new spots all over Europe every week!
> 
> Just a thought.



Leo (The Belgian / Flemming) died lasy year.


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## Mick Browne

*Litter at POI's*



Footpad said:


> I worked for over 30 years as a countryside manager for the National Trust, the major reason for these signs in remote countryside sites is to help with managing travellers (large groups of full time wildcampers who are often associated with mess, long term occupation and antisocial behaviour). I take a pride in collecting any litter that was there before I came and never leave any other evidence of my occupation. My view is that if you can't tell I spent the night there I have done no harm and I will continue to use such sites sign or no sign.



I also have tuned up at POI's and there has been litter around. I always make a point of removing the litter. I view my removing litter as payment for a free night or two stay at these sites.
Feedback to Admin regarding the POI sites is paramount to us being able to plan nights away. I have visited a POI site to find it has parking restrictions. This was fed back and it has been removed.


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## campervanannie

Hi Chris
 Poi 3867 Mealt Falls is unsuitable for very long vehicles as it s a bus turning area and there are only 6 parking spaces.

Poi 4777 is very unsuitable for long and or wide vehicles single track road with no passing places and a sharp bend onto a narrow bridge at the bottom .


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## Canalsman

Are these toilet locations?

If so, they aren't maintained by me or verified for access restrictions. The locations are extracted from OpenStreetMap ...


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## campervanannie

POI Admin said:


> Are these toilet locations?
> 
> If so, they aren't maintained by me or verified for access restrictions. The locations are extracted from OpenStreetMap ...



They are not toilet locations but Hippy and I drove down the 4777 one and thought it would not be suitable for the members we were traveling with that were driving a pilote and a iveco Xlong wheelbase I would advise caution.
The other poi members need to be aware if they have s long overhang it is a bus terminal.


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## Canalsman

I don't recognise the numbers ...

None of the POI locations have numbers.

Puzzled!


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## campervanannie

Sorry typo error
3865 CR Ellishadder Skye

4777 CR Staffin Skye

It clearly states poi id with the numbers following


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## campervanannie

Post codes

IV51 9JT. Staffin

IV51 9JE Ellishadder

Does that help.


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## Canalsman

Thanks Annie. I've located them now, though I don't know where the numbers come from.

I have put a cautionary note on all the POIs at Staffin about the awkward bridge.

The Ellishadder spot looks OK to me - as ever people need to park making allowance for other vehicles.


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## campervanannie

The numbers are on the WC maps on my iPad when you click on a poi you get the little info bit then click on the ? Mark at too of page which brings up poi info St the bottom it says tap here for more info. When you tap it opens a new page with
Poi id
Longitude
Latitude
Name 
Route
Town 
county
Country
Postcode
Views.


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## jagmanx

In General the South of England is difficult.
Europe is easier Thus my POIs are..
I exclude Aires/Stellplatz although these are good and we prefer the Rough and Ready locationss

Summer 2019 I offer the following
1 Switzerland Hagneck a forest parking spot OK plus
2 Switzerland L'Arsat near here https://goo.gl/maps/g9zkXvKRCx4Zoypf8 Lovely spot
3 Switzerland Boltigen Station https://goo.gl/maps/oUqrTWSuKPEEGSbX6 OK and Toilet
4 Switzerland Morel  https://goo.gl/maps/NonLU1rmgc8CbtQT6 EMERGENCY only
5 Switzerland Near Guttanen just OK quiet precise location not here

We also stayed a 2 stellplatz locations 
Car park in THUN

6 Splugen Ski Lift https://goo.gl/maps/S3MrVi5mdqH8yMD8A quite acceptable
7 Bad Raguz a forest parking here or near https://goo.gl/maps/FPjmNZjk57zEGaGy7

So formal camping in Switzerland is costly but there are free areas 

I submit these as wild as they fit the criteria


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