# Getting away from it all.



## zaphodski (Nov 18, 2010)

Hello.
I have just finished 22 years army service and now look forward to spending the next 5 - 10 years travelling throughout Europe and N Africa. I have not yet purchased a "van" but like the look of the Burstner Aviano, Argos or 747.  I will be in receipt of a smallish monthly pension of about £730 so hopefully will be able to live fairly comfortably off this.  I have just sold my house, which gives me approx £140,000 (had to split it with the ex wife) to purchase a "van" kit it out and have some reserves in the bank.  Has anyone recently started such a radical change of lifestyle and can anyone give me any tips advice on how to proceed? Oh I will be travelling alone.


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## vera (Nov 18, 2010)

*Welcome*

Hello and welcome to the site.
We have a burstner Aviano.We have had her for 2 years now and love it,we travel mainly in the uk and go to Europe 2-3 times a year so not full timers.
I have read that a budget of £1000 month is required for full timing, you can find all the facts doing a search on the site.
The main cost will be fuel, we get about 30 miles to the gallon and it costs us about £80 to fill the tank, but you can live a lot cheaper when travelling abroad.
Hope you find your ideal van and live your dreams.
Sue


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## Tbear (Nov 19, 2010)

zaphodski said:


> Hello.
> I have just finished 22 years army service and now look forward to spending the next 5 - 10 years travelling throughout Europe and N Africa. I have not yet purchased a "van" but like the look of the Burstner Aviano, Argos or 747.  I will be in receipt of a smallish monthly pension of about £730 so hopefully will be able to live fairly comfortably off this.  I have just sold my house, which gives me approx £140,000 (had to split it with the ex wife) to purchase a "van" kit it out and have some reserves in the bank.  Has anyone recently started such a radical change of lifestyle and can anyone give me any tips advice on how to proceed? Oh I will be travelling alone.


 
Hi Zaphodski,

After 22years you have earned your retirment, I only managed nine.

What I would recommend you do is to visit a couple of the large dealerships and have a test drive of a few vans. Find out what is comfortable to drive. A shower is great but can you get into it and move when you are in there. Can you get to the loo at night with all the beds down. Will you be on your own, is there enough storage space for summer and winter kit for more than one person. Will the fridge hold enough beer and food. If you are wilding for long periods can you store enough LPG and are there two leisure batteries. Go and have a look at a few vans and come back with your questions I am sure someone on here will help you.

As an ex squadie, I bet you can live well on a lot less than a thousand pounds a month.

Richard

Richard


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## David & Ann (Nov 19, 2010)

I tend to agree with you Richard (Tbear) regards living with less than £1000 per month. On arrival in Spain your gasoline bill won't be so hefty, as folks normally stick around an area for short spells. The 2 of us manage quite comfortably on €1500 over a 3 month period, that is inclusive of gasoline and cooker gas. The reason our expense is low, because we stock up on all dry foods in bulk for our 3/4 months trip. We buy only meat and veg a couple of times a week. At a rough guess I would say €600 = £500 a month @ £= €1.20, inclusive of everything. This of course is on a wilding budget NOT Campsites. Some folks may disagree, which is understandable, as each person may have a different Itinery of their own personal expenses.


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## John H (Nov 19, 2010)

Can't argue with any of that - we (two of us) live on around £1,000 per month and that includes a mixture of wilding and sites and it includes wintering in the Mediterannean and summer in the UK (we especially like Scotland). We live very comfortably, too.  A couple of points: we only have one leisure battery (now five years old and going strong) but it is linked to a solar panel. If you are full-timing, I'd think seriously about a solar panel (80 watts or so). Also, we have a fixed bed - again, if full-timing it gets to be a bind making up the bed every day. Incidentally, the £1,000 per month includes all costs to do with the van (tax, insurance, MOT, servicing etc.). When we started out nine years ago we managed quite happily on £10k per year but that's inflation for you! Happy travels.


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## zaphodski (Nov 19, 2010)

Many thanks for the suggestions so far guys.  I have been to a few dealerships over recent weeks and the Burstner range is by far the best i've seen/tried.  I also like a few Geist and Bessacar models.  I have set my mind on this complete change of lifestyle but want to cover all my bases beforehand.  As the majority of my travels will be overseas I intend purchasing a LHD model.  I have read about solar panels but will probably go for a mixture of efoy (methenol fuel cells) and solar. I will mostly wild camp on my travels to save cash.  A fixed bed is a must!

Well done for doing nine years Richard!  I did 22 years Regular Service then volunteered for TA service for a further 5 years and went to Baghdad to support the Yanks!!!!

I'm currently planning my journeys (German Wohnmobilstellplaetze, French Aires, etc etc) and deciding where I intend  over wintering.  

This is obviously going to take masses of planning, so any help and suggestions are really welcomed.


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## John H (Nov 19, 2010)

Wise decision about LHD - ours is too. Sorry I forgot to mention that. What are methanol fuel cells? I am always on the lookout for new methods of generating power and am currntly looking at wind turbines but that one is new to me (mind you, it is not difficult to confuse me with matters electric!). 

As for over-wintering, it obviously depends on your interests and attitudes. We have overwintered in southern Spain, Sicily and Greece, so if we can be of any help, please get in touch (I may not know about electricity but I do know about weather!)


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## David & Ann (Nov 19, 2010)

zaphodski said:


> Many thanks for the suggestions so far guys.  I have been to a few dealerships over recent weeks and the Burstner range is by far the best i've seen/tried.  I also like a few Geist and Bessacar models.  I have set my mind on this complete change of lifestyle but want to cover all my bases beforehand.  As the majority of my travels will be overseas I intend purchasing a LHD model.  I have read about solar panels but will probably go for a mixture of efoy (methenol fuel cells) and solar. I will mostly wild camp on my travels to save cash.  A fixed bed is a must!
> 
> Well done for doing nine years Richard!  I did 22 years Regular Service then volunteered for TA service for a further 5 years and went to Baghdad to support the Yanks!!!!
> 
> ...


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## coolasluck (Nov 19, 2010)

zaphodski said:


> Hello.
> I have just finished 22 years army service and now look forward to spending the next 5 - 10 years travelling throughout Europe and N Africa. I have not yet purchased a "van" but like the look of the Burstner Aviano, Argos or 747.  I will be in receipt of a smallish monthly pension of about £730 so hopefully will be able to live fairly comfortably off this.  I have just sold my house, which gives me approx £140,000 (had to split it with the ex wife) to purchase a "van" kit it out and have some reserves in the bank.  Has anyone recently started such a radical change of lifestyle and can anyone give me any tips advice on how to proceed? Oh I will be travelling alone.


 





Hi buddy good for you live life and enjoy.
We will be full timing also in a couple of years time.
We have an a-class hymer to get us some experiance and to learn about motorhoming before we go full time.Dont want to jump in at the deap end so we are paddling first!!!
We really love it and is the best thing we have ever got ourselves into. 
Go to The Motorhome Fulltimers Association | Motorhome365 this is a recently newborn site that is dedicated to fulltimers and people who are planning too in the near future.

This site is full of individuals who will be more than capable of helping you with many problems you may encounter.


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## kevin marks (Nov 21, 2010)

*fulltiming*

hi im also planning the same but have to sell the house bike car etc first.reckon ill have enough money to last 4 years without working but will want to pick up bits of work just to top the kitty up.


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## Tony Lee (Nov 22, 2010)

Before you rush in and buy a fuel cell, check availability of the fuel. It is a specific product and you can't just pop into the nearest hardware store and buy a couple of gallons - especially away from western Europe.
Personally, I think their time is yet to come, and they would need to run on propane/butane to be a proposition.

Assuming you are going to follow the sun - or at least run from the snow - a couple of hundred watts of solar panel, a regulator and say 200 Amp-hours of battery will provide you with most of the conveniences you expect. Add a decent DC - DC charging system to feed from the engine alternator when you are on the move and you should be able to stay anywhere for several days at a time without driving and without hookups. 
We do.

====================
If you intend staying away from the UK for long er than a year, you might need to look into the legalities of being regarded as having effectively exporting your vehicle, not being able to maintain registration and availability of insurance, carnets and similar hassles.


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## barnybg (Nov 22, 2010)

*Getting away from it all ?and why not..*

Excellent Zaphodski,i like your style.
Several points,Why new,there are some stunning 'like new' motorhomes about wth very little milage which will save you a fortune,as much as a third!! also some will have 'extras' already fitted,and if left hand drive EBAY (if not found on UK ebay,at the bottom of page,you can clck on other countries in EBAY like Germany etc,use a google translator)but as stated,you need a minimum of 100 w solar,i would go for double that,(ebay)and a bank of leasure batteries,ALL new,maybe 3 or 4 or in parallel and the biggest,also if possible,an 'upgrade' to the biggest output alternator,and keep the original as spare,also carry all  spare cables and the like,especially if your handy yourself,easier to fix a clutch cable,than wait several days/weeks for spares etc.Dont bother with wind power,waste of time and money,deffenately have the biggest LPG tank fitted _for fuel _(Bulgaria does them and very cheap)as UK very expensive,could also fit one for cooking,instead of bulky bottles ?but still keep one,as back up.
Internet research and joining forums like this will help you a great deal and save you a fortune,especially when finding where to go,on your travels,to over winter etc etc,it's all based on choice what you want and need and what countries you would like to see,some are very expensive and others very cheap(Bulgaria,i live here )The Peloponese and the Greek coasts are stunning too,also Turkey,some go to Spain and Maroc.
I have an 2ltr petrol (carb model) Talbot Autoquest 400 gt converted to run on LPG (Bulgaria) and is extremely frugal on running/touring,a cheap set up,that suits me fine,i'mnot that worried about it,as it doesn't cost me,a small house !!but as its 6 berth,i can leave one of the beds made up,if i wish,orlay on a single,theres plenty of room,and i can 'mostly' work on it myself,as newer,more modern,singing and dancing 'vans' you can't,If i scratch it,i wont break down in tears (well not as much) and i dont look like i belong to the Royal family...have a good think about it,maybe buy a second hand first,try it out,you can always buy another later ?


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## Guernsey Donkey (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi and a warm welcome to the wild side.


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## zaphodski (Nov 23, 2010)

Some fantastic advice guys, many thanks.  I have heard so many conflicting stories about the benefits of photo voltaics ranging from "brilliant to awful".  I am still undecided.  I definately plan to buy a second hand low mileage 'van' from Germany (I was married to a German for 14 years, so speak the lingo). The more I read about Efoy systems the more impressed I am.  I am currently scouring many websites (particularly German ones) where full-timers lurk to build up a bit of background information/feedback.  

If everything goes to plan I will be visiting Germany early next year to purchase a 'van' and then hopefully convincing my ex wife to register the vehicle at her German address.  This will save me the trauma of registering it here in UK.  Having read many hundreds of pages about caravaning here in Blightly I intend spending as little time as possible here.....toooo expensive, fuel second highest price in Europe, unfriendly attitude to 'wild camping', awful weather, etc etc!

My intention once everything is finalised, is travelling to Germany in my car (packed to the gunnels with all my belongings) and flogging the car on the British Army/RAF circuit.  Then the adventure will start.

I'll probably spend the first year in Germany as I know the country well and know a considerable number of places where I can 'wild camp'.  This should give me sufficient time to get used to the new life style plus i'll have my two kids staying over Easter and Summer holidays (they both attend german schools).  I'll probably then head South.

Please keep the advice coming, I really appreciate the feedback and would like to hear from others who have already set out.

Thanks


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## caspar (Nov 23, 2010)

John H said:


> Wise decision about LHD - ours is too. Sorry I forgot to mention that. What are methanol fuel cells? I am always on the lookout for new methods of generating power and am currntly looking at wind turbines but that one is new to me (mind you, it is not difficult to confuse me with matters electric!).
> 
> As for over-wintering, it obviously depends on your interests and attitudes. We have overwintered in southern Spain, Sicily and Greece, so if we can be of any help, please get in touch (I may not know about electricity but I do know about weather!)


 
John,
Purely my opinion, but I know it's backed by most of the motorhome / caravan magazines at the moment. I think you'll find wind turbines very uneconomical. I'd add another solar panel and another leisure to give you more stored energy if you feel you need it.

I believe wind turbines are not so bad if you intend to stay in one place for a fair amount of time, but it is thought that it takes a lot longer to get it to pay for itself than solar panels. Whichever way you do it, if you find one leisure battery is kept topped up with your driving and solar panel, then you'll need to add another leisure battery to store the energy.


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## John H (Nov 24, 2010)

Hi Zaphodski (and anybody else who knows anything about this)

Since you mentioned them I have been researching methanol fuel cells and have found some interesting stuff. But I have two questions:
1. The cells look expensive - are they cost effective in the long run?
2. How easy is it to get fuel for them and where do you get that fuel.
Remember, I am electronically illiterate so short answers would hurt my brain less!!
Thanks


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## Tony Lee (Nov 25, 2010)

"1. The cells look expensive - are they cost effective in the long run?"

For a communications repeater in a very awkward location, I imagine it would be very easy to work up a very convincing cost-benefit analysis, but for a motorhome having access to several other cheap(ish) and well-proven sources of power, I think you would have a fair bit of trouble justifying it even if you were on the road full-time.

That said, I know of one happy camper who spent AU$6000 on a medium sized one and by george he is determined to be happy with his decision. I also know of another who spent nearly as much on a alkaline-water device and now that he has youthened 10 years and burnt his walking stick is also happy. Fuel saver devices invoke a similar state of ecstasy in those who forget to return them within the 90-day money back period.




2. How easy is it to get fuel for them and where do you get that fuel.

And that is the real question - that may have an easy answer in Germany or France - but what about in the UK or Morocco or Iceland. The last two don't even have autogas let alone some crazy fuel in special canisters.

I would wait until they bring out one that will run on autogas. THEN they will sell.



At least one brand requires (suggests??) a service every couple of years. Don't know what it costs but that would add to the total cost of ownership.

I would be concerned about the high cost and poor availability of the methanol. It would be classed as a dangerous good so if you run out, you can't just get someone to post a couple of bottles.


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## John H (Nov 25, 2010)

Thanks Tony - I'll do as you suggest and look again when they bring an LPG version out. Happy travels.


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## bmb1uk (Nov 26, 2010)

*service*

Hi from one old squaddie to another ,may i thank you for your service to our country,may you have a long and happy retirement, maybe i will meet you on your jouneys to share a pint or three BAZ.


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## michael beck (Nov 26, 2010)

*Methanol sales*



John H said:


> Hi Zaphodski (and anybody else who knows anything about this)
> 
> Since you mentioned them I have been researching methanol fuel cells and have found some interesting stuff. But I have two questions:
> 1. The cells look expensive - are they cost effective in the long run?
> ...


 
John this is relatively easy to get, Trinity research offer 99.95%pure @ £215 for 205ltr
its part of the process for the manufacture of bio diesel and one of the first gasses to come off during distillation of certain spirits.
Apparently they also make an Ethanol cell to produce electricity, (now that would be handy)


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## John H (Nov 27, 2010)

michael beck said:


> John this is relatively easy to get, Trinity research offer 99.95%pure @ £215 for 205ltr
> its part of the process for the manufacture of bio diesel and one of the first gasses to come off during distillation of certain spirits.
> Apparently they also make an Ethanol cell to produce electricity, (now that would be handy)


 
Thanks.
John


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## zaphodski (Nov 29, 2010)

Been doing a bit more research on EFOY fuel cells.   Although pure methanol is available from a number of outlets, including places like Bulgaria, Spain....indeed most European countries, the EFOY manufacturer only allow refuelling of the cells using their own TUV approved pure methanol cartridges.  Obviously these are quite expensive.

This is what their web page says:

An M10 fuel cartridge, for example, weighs only 8.4 kg but contains 11.1 kilowatt hours of energy. With those specifications, you can easily store weeks’ worth of energy on your boat. Power anytime – EFOY fuel cartridges assure that you’ll always have electricity!  

Available all over Europe 
EFOY fuel cartridges have been designed to provide methanol to EFOY fuel cells in a safe and convenient manner. They are available from dealers all over Europe.

Sales Points 

EFOY fuel cartridges – safe and practical 
EFOY fuel cartridges come in practical 5- and 10-liter sizes. EFOY fuel cartridges bear the TÜV-GS seal of safety and are cleared for transport on land, by ship and in the air. Furthermore, they are cleared for use in closed spaces. 

Ultrapure – EFOY fuel cartridges’ seal of quality
EFOY fuel cells may only be operated in conjunction with EFOY fuel cartridges. It’s the only way you can be sure that the fuel inside really does meet the demands of purity that the generation process makes. It’s also the best way to avoid irreparable damage to the fuel cell due to invisible chemical impurities such as sulfur, chlorine, sodium, and the like. The guarantee does not cover damage caused by the use of contaminated fuel.  

EFOY fuel cell contains ultrapure methanol that we’ve checked and given a molecular purity guarantee especially for use in EFOY fuel cells. Constant checking is the best guarantee of consistent quality. Look for the Ultra Pure seal on every EFOY fuel cartridge. 

Proven safe! 
Every EFOY fuel cartridge bears the TÜV seal of safety. The cartridges have been designed to meet the most stringent safety demands right from the start. The container itself is made of high-impact plastic. They’ve undergone numerous drop and shock tests and passed with flying colors. 

Every EFOY fuel cartridge comes with a safety valve that prevents fuel from leaking out. The valve only opens if the cartridge is connected to an EFOY fuel cell. If the cartridge is removed, the safety valve automatically closes again. At no time do you come into contact with methanol. This solution is a lot safer, cleaner, and more convenient than having to refuel gasoline generators. EFOY fuel cartridges must be used within three years from the initial date of delivery.


Clean
The EFOY fuel cell generates electrical current from methanol. Methanol is an alcohol that occurs in nature, for example in trees, cotton plants, or oils. More and more ethanol is being generated from renewable resources such as second-generation organic waste or even household waste. Methanol fuel helps conservation efforts while providing a real energy alternative.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Nov 30, 2010)

This is a personal view - 
Set yourself up with a decent bank pf Solar panels and "leisure" batteries. The fuel cell idea is great for thems as don't have to pay for them. The other option is a small Genny ie Honda or a built-in Genny such as an Onan.
Have a look at mobile.de - there is an option to view the vehicles in English (top right hand corner)
Here's another linky that will give you some ideas
Die Wohnmobil-Galerie / The Motor Home Gallery - Inexpensive and Well-Kept Used Motor Homes
If you are, or soon to be, ex Forces ask for some advice on ARRSE - the travel forum is the one that you need.
The advice on 2nd hand is excellent: Don't forget, as you drive off the dealer's forecourt you have lost anything from £4k onwards. The Germans and Dutch tend to change their vehicles more often than we do.
People tend not to do anywhere near the mileage with their Motorhomes that they would do with their cars; typically 3k to 5k per year*

* except for the "Wildcamping" people as they tend to use their vehicles rather than let them decorate their driveway


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## lebesset (Nov 30, 2010)

don't be so sure about buying in germany 
when I was looking for a used left hooker I found that there were a number available from private sales in the uk at better prices than germany 
when I asked a couple of owners why this was they told me that dealers tend to say that they are worth much less in the UK if they are LHD , and offer terrible trade in's

so have a look at prices on sites like pre-loved , and compare with german prices


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## shy anne (Jan 19, 2011)

*Full timing*

Hi all,
We put 2gether a 5 year plan: save buy a van, sell up and travel once kids had left school/ college etc.
We are now in year 2 we have the van - a cheyenne autotrail ( plenty of living space, shower, fixed bed, etc as it still has home comforts) and have tested the water around the UK and France, and over the christmas and new year travelled through france, belgium & holland, 
On return we have decided that we love the life so much that we are cutting our 5 year plan short, we are now hoping to get our newly adopted puppy vaccinated and a passport, and have decided to rent our house out rather than sell up so we still have an income while travelling, also it is security to came back too should anything happen!

I would highly recommend investing in solar powered everything! solar panel battery chargers and solar portable showers, solar powered torches, solar lights that can be used indoors or out,all can be found cheap on Ebay, an inverter for tvs, laptops and other high voltage appliances and generator, a cycle or scooter is a must! all these things are essential when not using hook up and save energy & money!! 

We are so excited and are so` looking forward to it!!  

Travelling alone is brave but i am sure it will be an adventure for you. be safe - try and camp near other campers, avoid main roads, services and big cities, maybe invest in a safe for valubles and some pepper spray and get the e111 form from the post office to cover you medically. you will also need overseas van insurance.

Most of all - ENJOY!!
Maybe we will see you on your travels


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## Beemer (Jan 19, 2011)

Good luck with your adventure!
I am another ex-squaddie, leaving the services at 40 yrs of age in 1997.
Since then have been working as an electrician and hope to 'full time' when I am 55 (pension goes up then) .... may have to wait a few years until 'er indoors packs in work but envy you doing it now!
I too was married to a German Frau and have a child in Germany who we visit often.
I also visit the ARRSE site just to get back into Army humour and talk!  You know what I mean if you are ex services.
As for advice, well I have not been Wildcamping that long so will leave it to the more experienced fulltimers and long term peeps on this site to advise, but would recommend solar panels, as we found out to our cost that ehu can cost quite a lot when heating your 'van.
Oh yes, and certainly worth becoming a full member on this site as it is good value for money.

Dave


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## bmb1uk (Jan 21, 2011)

welcome, good luck, and many many thanks for your service  BAZ.


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