# where is the schengen



## rugbyken (Jan 19, 2021)

just found this map might help when looking to circumvent the 90 days


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## antiquesam (Jan 19, 2021)

I'm not sure how it helps particularly. Are you suggesting that someone spends 90 days in a Schengen area then 90 days in Romania before doing another 90 days in France?. It would surely only work if you had documentary evidence that you'd left the area.


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## rugbyken (Jan 19, 2021)

there are checks at all external borders of the shengen but receipts are documentary proof fuel etc i think i would plan on nipping over to morocco if i haven’t got a dog from spain etc but as you say 90 in 90 out is all that’s needed to comply


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## barryd (Jan 19, 2021)

We tend to (or used to I should say) do summer trips for 4-6 months.  The best way I figured out of doing it would be say two months in France, germany, Switzerland (western Europe) then work your way across to Croatia, maybe back end when its ACSII Season (wilding not so easy) for perhaps five or six weeks then have your last month touring back towards the UK.   Nothing else appealed or was handy enough.

Ive not been to Croatia but I believe they have controlled borders so you could insist on a stamp or proof of entry and exit so should they give you a pull at the French border when you go home you can prove you left Schengen.


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## jagmanx (Jan 20, 2021)

For winter months I think only Morocco and Southern Turkey are warm enough.
For spring summer autumn judicious travelling in The Balkansetc could work.
Probably best to spend say 45 days ONLY in schengen on your way out..If you are out of Schengen for a long period then extra time available when you re-enter.
Of couse you  could also Go North for 45 days  and into Russia


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## QFour (Jan 20, 2021)

Looks like Croatia is going to be the place to go for the summer if you want to go for longer than 90 days.


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## antiquesam (Jan 20, 2021)

It all sounds a bit like doing something because you can rather than because you want to. If you like Spain or Portugal, because of the atmosphere and weather, why would you want to tour western Europe and the former Eastern Bloc rather than stick to the 90 days?


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## witzend (Jan 20, 2021)

There was talk of Spain / Portugal relaxing the 90 day rule also France seeing as how they are allowed longer in UK has there been any developments with this ?


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## mariesnowgoose (Jan 20, 2021)

witzend said:


> There was talk of Spain / Portugal relaxing the 90 day rule also France seeing as how they are allowed longer in UK has there been any developments with this ?



Think we will just have to wait and see how things pan out when the dust of the pandemic and the B word has settled a bit.


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## antiquesam (Jan 20, 2021)

I don't think individual choice by countries is permitted. "One for all and all for one" and all that.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jan 20, 2021)

antiquesam said:


> I don't think individual choice by countries is permitted. "One for all and all for one" and all that.



... but now we're the 4th musketeer in reverse


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## John H (Jan 20, 2021)

witzend said:


> There was talk of Spain / Portugal relaxing the 90 day rule also France seeing as how they are allowed longer in UK has there been any developments with this ?


I don't know where that "talk" came from but it was wrong because the only way that any Schengen member state could go its own way would be if they left Schengen and there is no way that any of them are going to do that - especially Spain and Portugal.


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## Silver sprinter (Jan 20, 2021)

I think it could be a great time to visit Trev, and his beautiful  country at a snail pace, taking all the sites and fresh air in, be it the wild atlantic way,irelands ancient east, or just making it up as you go, forget the ferry price, and have a chilled adventure, I'm sure Trev will be along soon,


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## rugbyken (Jan 20, 2021)

portugal apparently trying to make it 6months in 12 also issuing residenscia on campsite addresses , the problem is that though we see it as a problem the 90 day limit will affect less than 5% of our population ex pats & motorhomers only way it would get revised is if the iberian countries miss the revenue


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## John H (Jan 20, 2021)

rugbyken said:


> portugal apparently trying to make it 6months in 12 also issuing residenscia on campsite addresses , the problem is that though we see it as a problem the 90 day limit will affect less than 5% of our population ex pats & motorhomers only way it would get revised is if the iberian countries miss the revenue



I can't comment specifically on Portugal but as far as Spain is concerned, we have covered this many times - getting an extension visa is both difficult and expensive and you have to have an acceptable reason. Tourism is not regarded as an acceptable reason. All I can say about Portugal is that an extension necessitates an application for residence and residence has tax and other financial implications.


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## RoaminRog (Jan 21, 2021)

It seem that your map maybe slightly wrong Ken.
It makes no mention of the fact that Andorra is neither in the EU or the Schengen Area.


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## antiquesam (Jan 21, 2021)

rugbyken said:


> portugal apparently trying to make it 6months in 12 also issuing residenscia on campsite addresses , the problem is that though we see it as a problem the 90 day limit will affect less than 5% of our population ex pats & motorhomers only way it would get revised is if the iberian countries miss the revenue


Surely they would need to get the agreement of all the other countries. If you return to the UK in your van via France or Spain how would you prove that you had only visited Portugal and not meandered around Europe?


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## John H (Jan 21, 2021)

antiquesam said:


> Surely they would need to get the agreement of all the other countries. If you return to the UK in your van via France or Spain how would you prove that you had only visited Portugal and not meandered around Europe?


I agree. All member states have the ability to grant extensions to the Schengen 90 day visa but they are usually very specific and difficult to get. If any one country attempted to make it easy to get an extension then that would probably be viewed by Schengen as a device to get around the 90 day rule and be vetoed.


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## barryd (Jan 21, 2021)

antiquesam said:


> It all sounds a bit like doing something because you can rather than because you want to. If you like Spain or Portugal, because of the atmosphere and weather, why would you want to tour western Europe and the former Eastern Bloc rather than stick to the 90 days?



The 90 days rule is going to be a complete PIA for those who over winter in Spain and a complete PIA for people like me who do long trips over summer.  Finding a way around that is important for many.  I would say as far as Spain and Portugal is concerned you are going to be pretty stuffed unless you like Morocco.  The Croatia thing might work for us but I would rather just be able to tour where I like for as long as I like but sadly for now at least that boat has sailed.


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## antiquesam (Jan 21, 2021)

The number of UK subjects that have the time and wherewithal to stay out of the country for more 90 days is a tiny minority and are unlikely to have enough clout to get anywhere on this unless they include some very influential people.


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## rugbyken (Jan 22, 2021)

might be worth a look?

Guide


If you are a non-EU citizen seeking to relocate to Portugal with your own funding, the D7 visa — also known as the Portugal Passive Income Visa — is a perfect option for you. Whether you are a retiree or an entrepreneur, enjoy Portuguese residency privileges thanks to the D7 visa. This article helps you understand the Portugal D7 visa, how to apply for it, and enjoy life in Portugal. 
In this article we will cover:

What is the D7 Visa?
What are the benefits of the D7 Visa?
How to get the D7 Residency Visa Portugal?
What are the D7 Visa requirements?
*What is the D7 Visa?*
The D7 visa is an affordable and attractive visa allowing non-EU citizens to get Portuguese residency provided they have sufficient funds to sustain themselves during their stay in Portugal. 
This visa is ideal for retirees or entrepreneurs who want to live in Portugal without having to make a major economic investment.
The D7 visa can then be renewed after one year for two successive periods of two years and can be converted into a permanent residence permit after five years.
*Benefits of the Portugal D7 Visa*






Permanent free entry and circulation in the Schengen area





Live, work and study in Portugal





Tax benefits via NHR





Benefit from the Portuguese health care system





Fast visa process





Entire family is eligible


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## Penny13 (Jan 22, 2021)

€400 euros per adult !


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## iampatman (Jan 22, 2021)

400 euros doesn’t sound too bad. It cost us a couple of hundred euros each in legal fees to obtain Spanish residency.


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## barryd (Jan 22, 2021)

Somebody posted somewhere the details for obtaining a six month visa for France which would appeal to me but I Cant find it now.  It sounded like a right carry on though and similar money with no guarantee at the end of it all.  I think you had to apply in French and use an official translation service or something like that.

If only we could join some kind of Union that allowed free movement for all that were in it.


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## jagmanx (Jan 22, 2021)

400 Euros..Good value for the benefits


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## John H (Jan 22, 2021)

antiquesam said:


> The number of UK subjects that have the time and wherewithal to stay out of the country for more 90 days is a tiny minority and are unlikely to have enough clout to get anywhere on this unless they include some very influential people.


I agree with the sentiment but must point out that you do not need a great deal of wherewithall. Our winters in Spain cost us less than our summers in the UK, even including the ferries. However, I will give you that you have to have enough money to buy the motorhome in the first place!


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## rugbyken (Jan 22, 2021)

the figures for british ex pats in spain are about 1/4 million add on another 100k motorhomers and it’s not a significant number only about 2% don’t see anybody fussing around after those sort of numbers except for the lost revenue


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## John H (Jan 22, 2021)

rugbyken said:


> might be worth a look?
> 
> Guide
> 
> ...



No good for us motorhomers, I'm afraid - you have to have an address in Portugal and you will become subject to Portuguese tax on your income. But useful if you are planning to live there.


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## Colinc (Jan 23, 2021)

There are individual country visas - so, for example, you can stay in France for up to a year.  Here is where you apply:-






						Tourism | France-Visas.gouv.fr
					

View all the details regarding your tourist or personal visa for France.



					france-visas.gouv.fr
				




I believe some others do this too or are talking about it.  It is quite a pain and does cost money - but possible.   When we are allowed to travel again it would be good to hear of people that have used such visas.  We can collect country-by-country info.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jan 23, 2021)

Colinc said:


> There are individual country visas - so, for example, you can stay in France for up to a year.  Here is where you apply:-
> I believe some others do this too or are talking about it.  It is quite a pain and does cost money - but possible.   When we are allowed to travel again it would be good to hear of people that have used such visas.  We can collect country-by-country info.





barryd said:


> If only we could join some kind of Union that allowed free movement for all that were in it.



Barry's idea might work. Wonder why no one has thought about doing it before?


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## antiquesam (Jan 23, 2021)

Please no. I couldn't take it all over again.


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## John H (Jan 23, 2021)

Colinc said:


> There are individual country visas - so, for example, you can stay in France for up to a year.  Here is where you apply:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You might be interested in this report of one person's experience of getting a long-stay French visa. How To Get a Long Stay Visa for France - Luxe Adventure Traveler .As you say, it is not easy and not cheap!


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## Colinc (Jan 23, 2021)

John H said:


> You might be interested in this report of one person's experience of getting a long-stay French visa. How To Get a Long Stay Visa for France - Luxe Adventure Traveler .As you say, it is not easy and not cheap!



Thanks - well at least it is possible rather than forget it.   I wonder what will happen as they may find there are a few more Brits wanting to use such visas then ever there have been Americans and Australians etc.   Maybe as the French love the English so much .... ;-)

Seriously I think this will only improve over time.  And in the meantime will benefit from people pooling experience.   We are new to van life having recently given up a boat in Greece ... so can offer experience there.  Very likely to improve when Covid has gone as they really do need external cash coming into the country.

It is more likely to change at country level as to change Schengen would require a new treaty across a lot of countries (even more than EU27).


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## barryd (Jan 23, 2021)

Colinc said:


> Thanks - well at least it is possible rather than forget it.   I wonder what will happen as they may find there are a few more Brits wanting to use such visas then ever there have been Americans and Australians etc.   Maybe as the French love the English so much .... ;-)
> 
> Seriously I think this will only improve over time.  And in the meantime will benefit from people pooling experience.   We are new to van life having recently given up a boat in Greece ... so can offer experience there.  Very likely to improve when Covid has gone as they really do need external cash coming into the country.
> 
> It is more likely to change at country level as to change Schengen would require a new treaty across a lot of countries (even more than EU27).



Sadly it will be well down the agenda list of most countries.  The amount of people it will effect is miniscule.


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## Clunegapyears (Jan 24, 2021)

Just remember to throw into the mix, the vehicle import rules now limited to 6 months in whole of EU.  So even if you could stay over 6 months, your vehicle couldn't.


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## jacquigem (Jan 24, 2021)

Unless you get it registered locally?


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## Deleted member 84699 (Jan 24, 2021)

Does anyone know what happens at the end of the 180 day period. In this scenario....

You have to spend 90 out of 180 days but they dont have to be consecutive days. So if you go for a weekend to France your 180 day period will start. You've then got 88 days left in eu. If you come back to uk and wait until the last 88 days of the 180 day period before you go back to the eu then the end of your current 90 day period will end at the same time as the 180 day period. 
So what happens then ?
Does a new 180 period start immediately and you can then spend another 90 days in eu or have you got to leave.
Cant find the answer to this anywhere


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## Robina (Jan 24, 2021)

Sambarob said:


> Does anyone know what happens at the end of the 180 day period. In this scenario....
> 
> You have to spend 90 out of 180 days but they dont have to be consecutive days. So if you go for a weekend to France your 180 day period will start. You've then got 88 days left in eu. If you come back to uk and wait until the last 88 days of the 180 day period before you go back to the eu then the end of your current 90 day period will end at the same time as the 180 day period.
> So what happens then ?
> ...


It’s a rolling 180 day period, not two discrete 180 day chunks where one starts as the previous one ends. I think you are trying to wangle two stays of 88 and 90 days back to back by triggering one 180 day chunk in advance and tacking another one on afterwards. It does add up to 180 days out of 360 which seems to fit the sums but it does not work that way. Day 91 of your second trip will tip you over the limit. You need to count 180 days backwards from the day you are on and see how many days you have been in France (schengen zone). If it is more than 90 you are in trouble!


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## Deleted member 84699 (Jan 24, 2021)

Yes. You're right I'm trying to find out if you can have two back to back 90 day periods.
So if I'm right you are saying you can have 90 days in the eu, since they dont have to be consecutive you could take 200 days to clock up your 90 days, but then once you have totalled 90 days you have to leave the eu for another consecutive 90 days before you can enter again.
If so do you have any links to where it actually says this because so far I cant find any.
So I'm still holding on to some hope !!!


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## Makzine (Jan 24, 2021)

Schengen Visa Calculator (visa-calculator.com) 

Not sure if this will help


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## I&MK (Jan 24, 2021)

Silver sprinter said:


> I think it could be a great time to visit Trev, and his beautiful  country at a snail pace, taking all the sites and fresh air in, be it the wild atlantic way,irelands ancient east, or just making it up as you go, forget the ferry price, and have a chilled adventure, I'm sure Trev will be along soon,


I hope not too many people are thinking along those lines!


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## Robina (Jan 24, 2021)

Sambarob said:


> Yes. You're right I'm trying to find out if you can have two back to back 90 day periods.
> So if I'm right you are saying you can have 90 days in the eu, since they dont have to be consecutive you could take 200 days to clock up your 90 days, but then once you have totalled 90 days you have to leave the eu for another consecutive 90 days before you can enter again.
> If so do you have any links to where it actually says this because so far I cant find any.
> So I'm still holding on to some hope !!!


I hate to say it but you must abandon that hope. It says 90/180 on the link just posted by Makzine. If you do a solid 90 days in schengen then, yes, you must wait 90 days until you can go back. If you have split your 90 days up over 200 days  then you must stay out of schengen until there are fewer than 90 in the past 180. It is a moving target, 'used' days drop off as you move forward.  
None of the days necessarily have to be consecutive - you just have to count back from the date you are on and add up how many you have been in schengen. Once it is below 90 you can go back for as many days as are below 90.  You do need to keep counting as the 180 days clock keeps rolling. It is hard to explain without a worked example.


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## rugbyken (Jan 24, 2021)

i read that it’s simpler to just say have you been out of the zone 90 days in last 180 if you have your good


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## Deleted member 84699 (Jan 24, 2021)

Thanks everyone. I've been able to get a better understanding of it now. Especially with the schengen calculator


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