# filthy tent campers



## gazznsam (Aug 13, 2009)

so tent wild camping is allowed in scotland, but not motorhome, who thought that silly one up?

a motorhome has full facilities onboard, waste water is collected in a tank, same with the toilet, there's no need to drop anything on the ground in a motorhome.

tents on the other hand......

we read the warnings about wandering in the woods near tent campers as they do as the bears do, i really assumed they would take a shovel and bury it.

we have been driving around some of the lochs east or loch lomond recently, and on almost every pull in to the shore we found a string of tents on the 'beach'

then in the CARPARK there were turds, human turds, as i dont think dogs wipe their arses on pink bog roll.

one of the carparks there was at least 10 turds in different areas, by the same tent or even person as by each one was a pile of streamers... the same pink bog roll, 
another carpark we could see cars had parked over turds, one place there was a big footpring in the middle of one, 

some dirty git had even done one on the steps down from the carpark to the shoreline.

****, what is up with these people, in all locations there were woods very close by with plenty of shelter, and ground that would be easy to dig a little hole and bury it in, but no, they have to do it in the carpark, 

even city tramps find somewhere out of the way to do that.

at least with most motorhomers, the only thing they leave behind are tyre prints,


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## NorfolkanGood (Aug 13, 2009)

gazznsam said:


> so tent wild camping is allowed in scotland, but not motorhome, who thought that silly one up?
> 
> a motorhome has full facilities onboard, waste water is collected in a tank, same with the toilet, there's no need to drop anything on the ground in a motorhome.
> 
> ...



How do you know for sure it's tent campers leaving poo in the car park? 
I can't imagine many people would be happy to squat down in  a public carpark and err.. well do the business.

Sounds more like the emptying of porta potties or thetford loos from vehicles.


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## jogguk (Aug 13, 2009)

gazznsam said:


> so tent wild camping is allowed in scotland, but not motorhome, who thought that silly one up?
> 
> a motorhome has full facilities onboard, waste water is collected in a tank, same with the toilet, there's no need to drop anything on the ground in a motorhome.
> 
> ...



Oh well, at least it is bio-degradable Not like some of the rubbish. Good job you don't have a dog (do you?) or you would be blamed

Can't  just blame tenters though. Disposable nappies tossed out from cars etc.  My dog came off a beach once with a used syringe stuck in it's back leg I always wear boots or shoes when walking beaches now.

john


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 13, 2009)

*Public Convenience*

This happens all over on Car Parks and Lay-bys not just in Scotland ever since the demise of the old Public Convenience just don’t stray from the tarmac. I cannot imagine anyone emptying a toilet on a car park 

Alf


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## Boxerman (Aug 13, 2009)

I think the problem of "filthy tent campers" lies with the fact that many of them are not "real" campers at all. They buy a cheap tent etc from Argos and the like and off they go - haven't a clue about how things work, "how to camp" or the country code etc. 
And they probably don't care either, provided they've packed enough cans & bottles. 

They give "proper" campers a bad name. I've camped in tents for years in the car, on the bike and backpacking (why is it that round the world travellers have now claimed this title?). I always carried/carry a trowel in my rucksack for the times when nature calls so I can bury my poo as "standard practice"

Frank


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## blobb140 (Aug 13, 2009)

It was funny at the time but I saw an old dear wiping her dog with pink toilet roll  recently!


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## bob690 (Aug 13, 2009)

Hi blobb140, Boxerman is spot on with what he says. I,m not defending anyone, but everyone with a motorhome or anything else for that matter, should steer well clear of the lochs near to glasgow during the late summer and especially when the school holidays are on. Hordes of kids with a cheapo tent and sod all else, apart from as much alcohol as they can carry, get the bus. 40 mins later their in parentless heaven(not that they care) and anything goes. Learnt this lesson a long time ago. If you want to go to loch Lomond use a site, but I personally head for somewhere thats not on a bus route...Bob


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## Guernsey Donkey (Aug 13, 2009)

What about coaches - My mother was on a coach trip a couple of years ago (in England) and the driver emptied the coach loo in the woods along. Can you beat that!!


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## Boxerman (Aug 13, 2009)

If he was a Scottish driver then he was probably out for revenge 

Frank


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## Tco (Aug 13, 2009)

gazznsam said:


> so tent wild camping is allowed in scotland, but not motorhome, who thought that silly one up?
> 
> ,



Have I missed something, Where does this story come from?

Tco


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## Deleted member 967 (Aug 13, 2009)

gazznsam said:


> so tent wild camping is allowed in scotland, but not motorhome, who thought that silly one up?




The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 establishes a statutory right of responsible access to land and inland waters for:
outdoor recreation, including wild camping,
crossing land, and 
some educational and commercial purposes

wild camping is completely legal and well accepted. the current access legislation is explicit about people's right to camp on hill land - usually more than 100 metres away from a public road, some landowners do take exception, but thankfully they are few and far between. if you're near a dwelling it's also a good idea to ask permission and not just set up camp on their doorstep!
for more information go to> Scottish Outdoor Access Code - Welcome to the Outdoor Access Scotland Website


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## Boxerman (Aug 14, 2009)

Bring back the Birch!!

Frank


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## robjmckinney (Aug 14, 2009)

*is this really an issue*

This is a problem that beaches around the country and the world have suffered for years, when people visit they make a mess. While visiting countries around the world the locals get over it and provide important jobs cleaning it up. There is always a few that 'go over the top', that is the nature of being human. It could be also be said that the locals, 'milk' their visitors at every chance they get, why not provide a little payback and keep areas clean. Most beaches that are popular will be cleaned every morning by local government simply to maintain the tourism. Scotland certainly has little to offer beyond tourism in those more remote areas, so all the funds 'milked' from their visitors a small part could go to cleaning up the area.

If people are going to the toilet in the street or on steps perhaps there should be a public toilet placed close by, to many are being closed to save money instead of providing important facilities to the public!


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## nowadays (Aug 14, 2009)

Being both a tent and van camper i think the problem goes both ways. I know of folk from both 'camps' who think nothing of 'relieving themselves' where-ever they feel like doing it at the time.
Personally, I always seek out the nearest public convience before we decide on where to pitch/park.
I think its a case of whether or not the *individual* themselves has any principles or plain repsect for both the area and others using it rather than whether they're camping under canvas or a tin roof!


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## Tco (Aug 14, 2009)

nowadays said:


> Being both a tent and van camper i think the problem goes both ways. I know of folk from both 'camps' who think nothing of 'relieving themselves' where-ever they feel like doing it at the time.
> Personally, I always seek out the nearest public convience before we decide on where to pitch/park.
> I think its a case of whether or not the *individual* themselves has any principles or plain repsect for both the area and others using it rather than whether they're camping under canvas or a tin roof!



Absolutely true. There are always people who think only of themselves and have poor hygene habits. I refer to the like of the German couple mentioned earlier in this thread.

With regard to toilet disposal, it is more likely however that a motorhome, even a van conversion, will carry it's own toilet facilities than a tent camper is able to.  In wild country there is nothing wrong with the "bury it" system of disposal providied it is done properly. Years ago I even visited a CL where that was the designated method required by the site owner. It is not impossible to find somewhere legitmate to empty an elsan every couple of days.

Tco


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 14, 2009)

Tco said:


> Absolutely true. There are always people who think only of themselves and have poor hygene habits. I refer to the like of the German couple mentioned earlier in this thread.
> 
> With regard to toilet disposal, it is more likely however that a motorhome, even a van conversion, will carry it's own toilet facilities than a tent camper is able to.  In wild country there is nothing wrong with the "bury it" system of disposal providied it is done properly. Years ago I even visited a CL where that was the designated method required by the site owner. It is not impossible to find somewhere legitmate to empty an elsan every couple of days.
> 
> Tco



*Tco* I am at odds to find your Quote '' I refer to the like of the German couple mentioned earlier in this thread.''


Alf


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## Tco (Aug 14, 2009)

Alf 1 said:


> *Tco* I am at odds to find your Quote '' I refer to the like of the German couple mentioned earlier in this thread.''
> 
> 
> Alf



Sorry Alf, -wrong thread it was this one: 
http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/general-chat/6847-disappointing.html

They weren't even Germans either.  I think I shal go nad have a lie down.........

Tco


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## Tony Lee (Aug 15, 2009)

It's a year since we travelled through Scotland and we did wild-camp exclusively and we did not see any rubbish where we went. We had no hassles at all, but my clear understanding of the land access act is that apart from a vehicle owned and operated by a disabled person, the act doesn't address access by motorhomes and since the act expressly defined what is permitted, by implication anything else is not permitted.

We did pick up a pamphlet detailing special conditioners for itinerant travellers but that was not directed at motorhomers.


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## bob690 (Aug 15, 2009)

Hi all, Ive been up in Scotland for the last three weeks, at the moment Durness, Sutherland. Thursday I visited the Assynt tourist info office in Lochinver. I specifically asked the lady in charge of the office what their official policy is towards motorhomes camping wild, as their are so many visitors to this area from all over europe in motorhomes who camp wild predominately.
   Her reply was this, wild camping by motorhomes is allowed(she was talking about her area of Assynt)because in Scotland there is no law of trespass, as long as you do not cause damage or interference to the landowner. In fact they would need a sheriffs order to move you on, and as this has only been done to evict people who have stayed in a spot for years, making the camp their home. It would not apply to a couple of days parked for camping.....Bob


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Right to Park??*

Bob with respect and remember this is Scotish Law we are talking about on Private land you have no right f access with a motor vehicle that is unless you and the vehicle are registered as disabled take a look at this site

http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/upload/Full Access Code.pdf
note John Thompsons post 13/08/2009
That said if a large bloke with dogs and blackthorne or similar tells you to get the h*** of his land are you going to argue whilst on holiday and try to argue the finer point of law lets be fair if you require to park ask permission
there are enough so called wild campers anoying local people all over this one or two persons gets the rest a bad name this is why height barriers and soil banks are blocking some spots now IT is not only travellers causing the problem.
we go on our tavels to enjoy ourselves not to infuriate other people we have been motor caravanning for 40 years and 5 years before that self build vans
Alf


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## Tony Lee (Aug 16, 2009)

There is always enough public land or semi-public land around to park on without messing up someone's land with wheel tracks. Access by walking campers is not going to result in churned up private driveways and rutted fields, but that is the inevitable result of getting off-road in a vehicle, especially the frontwheeldrive things a lot of us drive.

Sweden (I think) or maybe Norway has an implied right of access that by default has been extended to motorhomes, BUT it is strictly applicable to uncultivated or unimproved rural land. Tended grazing land is not accessible either.

BTW Those working in Visitor Information centres are there to tell you about the local attractions, not provide authoritative advice on even the broader aspects of the law.


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## bob690 (Aug 17, 2009)

Well Tony, could you give them a bell at the tourist office up at Lochinver and possibly inform that a clever s--t in Australia has the full particulars of their job description, and that they have no right to inform anyone of their local knowledge. Thanks, is it all right if I go for a c--p please...Bob

Ar----le


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 17, 2009)

*Fireman from Southport*



bob690 said:


> Well Tony, could you give them a bell at the tourist office up at Lochinver and possibly inform that a clever s--t in Australia has the full particulars of their job description, and that they have no right to inform anyone of their local knowledge. Thanks, is it all right if I go for a c--p please...Bob
> 
> Ar----le



There is only one clever s*** with a big head and gob on this thread and forum and his name is bob6*0 pherhaps being a fireman helps living in southport as well,

well I suppose this will get me in trouble but he does go on don't he
Alf


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## Tony Lee (Aug 18, 2009)

Hello Bob,

So very nice to hear from you. Sorry I can't speak your language, but maybe you can find someone who can translate this into words of one syllable and then into foul language so it will make sense to you.

I guess you regularly drop in to the pub to get medical advice, or the grocers to get your car fixed or the lawyer to sort out your gardening advice so I guess it is quite logical to get legal advice from a tourist office.
Just where do you go to get tourist information?



> Ar----le



Ah, your signature Bob?


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## bob690 (Aug 18, 2009)

Alf 1 said:


> There is only one clever s*** with a big head and gob on this thread and forum and his name is bob6*0 pherhaps being a fireman helps living in southport as well,
> 
> well I suppose this will get me in trouble but he does go on don't he
> Alf


Hi Alffy baby, nice to hear from you! Perhaps you could pass this message on to tony when you,ve removed your tongue from his back pa..er exhaust. Its obvious his translational skills are somewhat limited. If I want informed legal or technical advice, there is no other option, contact Tony Lee, immediately, if not sooner! On any issue at all, from nuclear fusion to personal hygiene. Oh and Alffy baby I really am as common as you, honest....Bob


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 18, 2009)

Bobby baby when another forum user raise a point even if this does not match your expert views and advice there is no need to use such language and be so obnoxious people listen to your answers so please allow others to have opinions or give answers in conflict with yours so please be a bit more understanding. also I dont know tony never met him never likly to either.

Now advice please.
Bobby baby today I went to the local library whilst browsing for a book I struck up a conversation with the librarian, the reason being I noted that they have had new fire extinguishers fitted as she seemed quite an expert on these I asked her recommendation on ones for motor caravans she said in her opinion Halon twelve eleven were the one to go for I assume that the fireman is as in fire service and not railways so what would your advice be to replace aging dry powder ones. Ones that make little mess and no damage.

Alf


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## nowadays (Aug 18, 2009)

now now gentlemen


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## BedfordMJ (Aug 18, 2009)

Popcorn anyone?


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## 888dee (Aug 18, 2009)

BedfordMJ said:


> Popcorn anyone?



please, I've got some fizzy pop, you want some?


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## bob690 (Aug 18, 2009)

Well Alf, takin on account youre not takin the michael, Bromochlorodifleuromethane is the only way to go, or B.C.F as its known in the trade. Its probably been updated now to some other inert gas. Then of course you have to take into account the confined space problems with all inert gasses, ask Tony, he,ll know. While I,m on which version are they using now for I.E.E regs....Bob


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## nowadays (Aug 18, 2009)

888dee said:


> please, I've got some fizzy pop, you want some?



I've got a flask of Yorkshire Tea  and a deckchair


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 18, 2009)

*fire extinguishers*



bob690 said:


> Well Alf, takin on account youre not takin the michael, Bromochlorodifleuromethane is the only way to go, or B.C.F as its known in the trade. Its probably been updated now to some other inert gas. Then of course you have to take into account the confined space problems with all inert gasses, ask Tony, he,ll know. While I,m on which version are they using now for I.E.E regs....Bob



17th  mine is written in latin I had to get an intrerupter for clerk of works wanted to read

I had thought to go AFF but these seem to be very corrosive if used on a motor caravan what are your thoughts as to the best to avoid damage ( not fire damage )

Alf


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## Tony Lee (Aug 19, 2009)

Hi Alf, I don't usually take a lot of notice of trite or hackneyed phrases on desk calendars and signatures, but there was one I remember that seems particularly apt. 



> I never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed person. The RSPCA thinks it is cruel.



Best we let him (the one who signs his name Ar----le) get back to it.

BTW. I'm not up with all the English Dialects so you might be able to tell me. All these spaces Ar----le uses. Is that some primitive African Click language he's picked up somewhere, or is it a result of his childhood spent in some secret valley where the isolation has caused the gene pool to get dangerously shallow.

What was the original topic?

Ah yes "Filthy tent campers", subtitled "Scottish Law"


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## BedfordMJ (Aug 19, 2009)

888dee said:


> please, I've got some fizzy pop, you want some?



How kind and do you fancy a hot dog tonight?


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## gazznsam (Aug 20, 2009)

Well we moved from the temp holiday site the other day,

was going to spend the first night at callander, few places listed as possible wilding spots, 

the one i have seen motorhomes one was just begining to flood, it's been piddeling it down for weeks up here, i should have invested in a water wheel generator instead of solar panels 

the other carpark is the coach park up a slight hill, no chance of flooding but signs saying you'll be fined 35 quid if you dont park within a parking slot, one half of the parking area has very faint markings, coaches park along them, as do a few truckers, but i could just see we'd be the ones to get a fine for doing the same, even tho the markings havent been renewed as the others have, they are still just visable.

so went up the road to the loch where i'd seen the tent campers droppings all over the carpark, as we went past the first one we could see 2 fresh uns from the road, so i didnt even bother with the next layby up the road on that loch,

instead went to loch earn, i'd checked the place out in the smart car before and found a great wilding spot, half a mile long layby, about 50 to 70 meters of woodland between the road and layby, layby is below road level, 

when i checked it out there was a bus conversion and a caravan with it's full awning set up, as well as a bloke in a caravan at the very begining who looks to have been there a while.

caravan with awning had gone when we went to spend the night there, caravan at the begining was still there, 
we had the layby to ourselves except for a couple of fishermens vehicles, they had a camp on the shore, it was pelting it down all afternoon, evening and night, yet they seemed to be enjoying them selves, 

they had packed up and were just leaving when we got up... ok that was at 1pm!!! we dont sleep too well when our guts and my arthritis is playing up, so when we do finaly get to sleep we sleep our 8 hours.

when they had gone we had a wander on the beach, my dog instiantly found a load of discarded fishing line with 5 of those tripple hooks on it and a ground feeder baiting thing, the line was bright green, and was visable from the road, yet they left it, luckily the dogs paws werent too badly cut up, 

seems they'd divided the shore into sections, far section was where they shat, no attempt to bury it, or even flick it into the water for the fish to eat, bog roll in clumps all over that end of the shore.
then was the dumped sleeping bags, soaking wet along with 3 pairs of socks that i had seen them hanging out on a line when we arrived, 
a couple of broken folding stools which i had seen them say on, 

then a load of plastic knives and forks, they might not have been theirs, but the 3 disposable bbq's deffo were, 

their campfire which they couldent get to burn was a freshly chopped down tree, floating in the loch was the logs they'd cut the tree into, the mangled stump of the tree easily located in the woods.


annoying thing is all along the layby are large bins, there were 2 of them right where they had parked their vehicles, it makes me wonder if those kinds of people leave the mess deliberately.

Appart from them, that big layby is excelent for wilding, silent at night, we counted about 5 vehicles an hour along the road after 8pm.


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## Boxerman (Aug 20, 2009)

I've seen the river at Callander  right up past the wall and into the carpark, but to get back to the thread, those morons who were fishing not only gave tent campers a bad name, but Anglers as well! if they had been on motorbikes they could have scored a hat-trick.

Frank


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## Croftland1 (Aug 21, 2009)

Boxerman said:


> I think the problem of "filthy tent campers" lies with the fact that many of them are not "real" campers at all. They buy a cheap tent etc from Argos and the like and off they go - haven't a clue about how things work, "how to camp" or the country code etc.
> And they probably don't care either, provided they've packed enough cans & bottles.
> 
> They give "proper" campers a bad name. I've camped in tents for years in the car, on the bike and backpacking (why is it that round the world travellers have now claimed this title?). I always carried/carry a trowel in my rucksack for the times when nature calls so I can bury my poo as "standard practice"
> ...



Got to agree with Frank on this. One of my biggest frustrations when visiting sites is to see Argos or Aldi first-time tenters with nothing but a tent and a sleeping bag, (not even a fresh water container.) They drive in and out, in and out, fetching coffee from McDonalds etc etc. Their tents are so badly pitched, they would just flatten and pour water in at the slightest of inclement weather. Now don't get me wrong., I like a beer as much as the next man, but their BBQ parties with accompanying pumping music from the nearest car stereo are just the icing on the cake.
Our first family tent cost £260 in the 80's, not to mention the stove, table and chairs, trailer to carry it all, blah blah. I can't help but worry about where camping is going with the advent of 20 quid tents.


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## nowhereman (Aug 22, 2009)

***** said:


> Not just tenter's
> On our recent jaunt to France & Spain we were using aire facilities to empty our cassette and
> I had just emptied the cassette and was putting it back in the van prior to flushing & cleaning the grid area when a French wildcamper from a old banger of a van (not m/h) came and immediately put his water container down on the ground over the unclean black water grid. (he knew it was still dirty)
> We just could not believe our eyes, but then again when you see how some of the French use the aire facilities you can understand
> ...



have seen a few strange things regarding the hygene issue in France, including human waste complete with toilet paper in the middle of laybyes, and toilet scenareos that I have seen nowhere else in the world.


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## Tony Lee (Aug 22, 2009)

> have seen a few strange things regarding the hygene issue in France, including human waste complete with toilet paper in the middle of laybyes, and toilet scenareos that I have seen nowhere else in the world.







> then in the CARPARK there were turds, human turds, as i dont think dogs wipe their arses on pink bog roll.




These same people get around a bit. Scotland one week, France the next.


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## coolasluck (Aug 22, 2009)

What is wrong with people,they need educating by gunpoint.Maybe they would be scared into mending their ways.Obviously dragged up on a council estate somewhere,you know the ones,easily identifiable by the amount of furniture just dumped in their own gardens,oh yes and the stench of their dog **** just left lying around in large clumps for people to slip in.

Dirty filthy *******s! or campers..


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## Boxerman (Aug 22, 2009)

coolasluck said:


> Obviously dragged up on a council estate somewhere,you know the ones,easily identifiable by the amount of furniture just dumped in their own gardens,oh yes and the stench of their dog **** just left lying around in large clumps for people to slip in.



I was brought up on a council estate, and I live in one now. There is no furniture in my garden apart from B&Q garden furniture and the same goes for my neighbours. I don't have a dog now but when I did, I always used to clean up after it. Two of my neighbours have dogs and they clean up after their dogs.

Not everyone can afford to buy their own homes - this does not make them bad, stupid, dirty or dishonest people.

Frank


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## gazznsam (Aug 22, 2009)

i never mentioned where these people who crap in carparks grew up, and to be honnest if what i've seen of how they behave on holiday, i'd hate to see their house, 

maybe they have a designated corner of the living room to crap in, and pee in the kitchen sink... rinses the dishes off so less scrubbing needed.

it is getting a tad annoying now tho, every place where tent campers have been up here there's piles of turds and bog roll mounds in the woods, the turds get eaten by the wildlife or washed away in the rain, but the bog roll hills are left behind for ages, 

found one woods where posh campers had been camping, could tell that as they used M&S brand wet wipes... knew that as they left the packet behind as well as the piles of wipes.

i guess i'm finding the crap everywhere thing so annoying as i was a boy scout (many years ago) and we were taught to dig a communal bog at camp, and if we needed to go away from it, to dig a personal bog hole, you wiped yer arse on stinging nettles too, none of this namby pamby carrying bog rolls with you stuff, and when you'd finished, you put the ground back as you found it.


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## BedfordMJ (Aug 22, 2009)

Don't all men pee in the kitchen sink?


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## coolasluck (Aug 22, 2009)

No offence Boxerman,you obviously live on a decent estate,down here i used to deliver post on an estate,the people who had brought their houses off the council made the area look decidedly differant and decent looking,whilst others behaved as i descibed i just cant understand how some people live like that.


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## runnach (Aug 23, 2009)

There are right and wrong people from all walks of life..background seems to me at least of very little relevance, to label people is a dangerous assumption 

Channa


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## nichodia (Aug 23, 2009)

Boxerman said:


> I was brought up on a council estate, and I live in one now.





Boxerman said:


> I too was brought up on a council estate, I also own a Halfords tent (they are extremely good value!). To say everybody from council estates have been dragged up with no manners or morals is a misnomer. My father (who would be 96 now, did not want to get into debt with a mortgage and many people didn't in those days, the estate I was brought up on in leeds had teachers, nurses and other proffessional people living on it, as well as the few 'rum uns' as they were called in those days!
> 
> From experience, I teach in a town where 50% of the pupils parents have NEVER had a job and live on benefits, I have found that their parents take them abroad on package holidays, drive better cars than me, and would never dream of camping in a cheap halfords tent! These are the kids who always have designer clothing and the latest phones, always know where to get cheap fags, and are always offering to lend you a 'copy' of the latest filmwhich they watched on thier 52 inch flat screen TV!
> 
> ...


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