# Can I use gas on the move?



## theteapackets (Sep 11, 2010)

Hello, I've looked through the scanty photocopied manual that came with our 95 Hymer B554, but can't find anything to say whether or not you can run the fridge on gas or have the water heater/not air on while running along.

Could anybody tell me?

Many thanks in advance  :¬)


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## Deleted member 967 (Sep 11, 2010)

We have run our Hot Water while travelling without a problem.  We have two heaters front and back and have run both of them as well in very cold conditions. The engine heating is frankly not up to the job as it was only designed to heat a truck cab not a body the size of a Motorhome. It is not necessary to run the fridge on gas while moving as you can run it on 12v safely.

This running of live gas is not recommended and you will need to ensure you turn them all off before going into filling stations.  Truma make a regulator designed to be used on the road live.

Our gas tank automatically cuts of the gas if there is a flow of gas more than is normal such as in an accident or pipe break.

John


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## vwalan (Sep 11, 2010)

hi, if you google BES they list automatic shut off valves .item12083 page 54 in their catalogue. not cheap at 50.75 but can give peice of mind. possibly the most safetey bit of kit you could buy for your van. 
cheers alan.


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## Tony Lee (Sep 11, 2010)

The truma hot water/hot air system has fan forced combustion and is specifically designed to operate while on the move. Others are too. Fridges, depending on the vent design are also often operated while on the move. Each specific appliance should detail any restrictions against operating on the move, but regardless of that, you should make your own mind up on the basis of official information available and your interpretation of the benefits and risks involved.

As one member has pointed out, you must turn off all gas appliances BEFORE entering a refuelling station (not after you arrive) and this requirement alone - considering the ramifications of forgetting to turn off the gas - may be enough to convince you it may not be a good idea


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## vwalan (Sep 11, 2010)

hi, does leave a thought that in the petrol engine sparks are going all the time in the alternator ,starter ,dist cap etc every switch can make a spark. so is leaving the gas on that much of a problem really. personaly i think its over reacting. but then i used to run with my fridge on gas all the time .what about the gas fridges that are only gas .who stops to turn the gas off then. cheers alan


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## Tbear (Sep 11, 2010)

Not sure its the sparks from the engine thats the problem, more the fact that the Lpg will slosh about in the tank when you are moving so theres a chance of getting lpg in its liquid form reaching the flame in the fridge.


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## Tco (Sep 11, 2010)

All this of course pre-supposes that the vehicle itself is not running on LPG. Which would present some difficulty in (say) driving into a petrol station.  Or indeed on to a ferry, I assume that ferry operators have a policy on gas being carried/used in a vehicle.  I guess that the criteria would be whether a naked flame is involved.  

In the marine sector, where gas is a potential bomb, because once it sinks, it cannot escape, unlike a caravan or MH application, some work was done under the Boat Safety Scheme to encase the flame so it cannot ignite anything else.


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## Tbear (Sep 11, 2010)

Tco said:


> All this of course pre-supposes that the vehicle itself is not running on LPG. Which would present some difficulty in (say) driving into a petrol station.  Or indeed on to a ferry, I assume that ferry operators have a policy on gas being carried/used in a vehicle.  I guess that the criteria would be whether a naked flame is involved.
> 
> In the marine sector, where gas is a potential bomb, because once it sinks, it cannot escape, unlike a caravan or MH application, some work was done under the Boat Safety Scheme to encase the flame so it cannot ignite anything else.


 
If the vehicle is running on LPG it takes from the bottom of the tank as the engine runs on liquid lpg. Your fridge and cooker run on gaseous lpg. If liquid lpg comes of the fridge flame it will expand several thousand times, ignite and expand a lot more. Not just a potential bomb but a real one in the confines of a motor home or a boat. Don't think you will sink more a flying lesson to begin with.


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## vwalan (Sep 11, 2010)

i have left home and been on travels for 6mnths only turning the fridge and gas off when changing bottles ,. never had it blow out ever. i thought that the mention of turning the fridge off to enter a garage was meant to mean you could start a fire. . but i think there are enough sparks on a conventional petrol engine to not cause me to worry. as for it sloshing around . some yanks only have gas fridges ,you have to drive with it on or no fridge. cheers alan.


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## Tbear (Sep 11, 2010)

Yes Alan I confess I have driven with it on when I thought the other half had turned it off and she thought I had and it was over uneven ground, also how many people have just moved a few feet with it on? So there must be some slack in the system to let it expand or a valve to prevent liquid from getting through but I worry about pushing my luck until I am sure of my safety facts. What happened to that burnt out van pictured on this site a little while ago? If I am scare mongering I am very sorry but if in doubt turn it off!


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## vwalan (Sep 11, 2010)

then get an automatic shut off valve .i think they should be made compulsory in any application. even at home . makes sense. but as been said some appliances are to be left on. even your new style 3 way fridges are automaticaly controled . you dont have to turn them off or do you . dont think mines been turned off except to change a bottle in the last 10 yr. 
cheers alan.


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## Tbear (Sep 11, 2010)

I agree that there should be safety of some type but which one and under what conditions will they work? I have no idea


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## Tco (Sep 11, 2010)

When I first started caravanning, (forty years ago now crikey!) it was common practice amongst our friends to leave the fridge running on gas when towing (!) Possibly because the vehicles of those days did not have the electrical power to adequately keep the fridge down to temperature. Remember we are talking about cars which had dynamos, not alternators as charging medium. I would never do such a thing now, nor would I justify what used to happen, I think we are all a bit more safety concious since those times.

Mind you when I think of other things we did, I sometimes wonder how we survived.


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## Randonneur (Sep 11, 2010)

Silly question......if you can run the fridge on 12 volts when you're driving, why would you need to run it on gas. 

At the price of gas nowadays I prefer to use mine only when we're stopped.


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## Slowhand (Sep 11, 2010)

It is perfectly safe to run gas fridges and heaters on the move, only British manufacturers seem to have a problem with such things.


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## Randonneur (Sep 11, 2010)

Slowhand said:


> It is perfectly safe to run gas fridges and heaters on the move, only British manufacturers seem to have a problem with such things.



I can understand about wanting to keep the habitation part warm while you're travelling, especially if you have passengers on board, but again, if you can run your fridge on 12 volts for free why use your gas. 

I'm surprised no motorhome manufacturer has yet come up with some type of heat exchanger that works off the vehicle exhaust system to heat the habitation part while you're travelling, or an extension of the vehicle cooling system.


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## vwalan (Sep 11, 2010)

12 volts is not free .you do lose engine power if the alternator is working. better just used to charge batteries. another reason is gas can be very cheap.at one time 3quid to ex in maroc. and electric power very hard to obtain. when i fitted solar panels i then changed to a compressor fridge. . before the only way i had to power the fridge was gas. i also did and still do use gas lights. try wild camping for 6 mnths at a time never using ehu. you need to think twice about using power. now i have plenty .use washing machines, spinners , food mixers etc all powered by solar. the only prob i had was in very hot climates the fridge stopped working if ambient temp over 32deg cel. that was the reason for going solar. but i cant see as running a fridge on a garage forecourt is a danger. if there was /is that much fuel vapour every time a spark from opening the door could be enough . only takes one spark. and before you open the door the dizzy as made thousands of sparks. so as the dynamo alternator.the vw transporter air cooled did have a heat exchanger system running from the exhaust. so did all the aircooled vw,s . but in cold climates they used the ebaspacher heater to give it real heat. you can still get heat exchanger systems to give hot water after a run . even extra radiators in the back . the trouble is where do you stop. each individual makes his choice. specially in a home build . most are far advanced over bought factory conversions . they get designed by people who dont use them. even the simple wood burner can supply a wet radiator system . not my way but works for many. cheers alan.


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## Deleted member 967 (Sep 12, 2010)

Slowhand said:


> It is perfectly safe to run gas fridges and heaters on the move, only British manufacturers seem to have a problem with such things.


 
This is the same mind set that tells you, "to empty all of your tanks before leaving the site, and top them up when you arrive at your new site, to avoid the vehicle becoming unstable due to the contents moving about".  1950s tugger mentality.

I have driven since 1974 with live gas to fridges with no problem.  I also used to leave the old Carver SB1800 running.  Both of these devices have the flame encased.

My original reference to filling stations was for fire.  *Turn off your appliances before filling up. *.  
I once bought an OLD car and ran it for a while just putting in a couple of gallons at a time.  I was going some distance one morning so I filled the tank to the top.  While at the kiosk I noticed liquid flowing away from under the car.  When I went out and looked the bottom of the tank had given way due to the extra weight.  We put sand around the vehicle to stop the fuel spreading and going down the drain.

The garage did not stop other vehicles coming in and using the adjacent pumps, or the same pump on the other side.    When the fire brigade arrived they just filled the tank with foam and pushed the car away.  They scooped up the sand.  The garage still continued as normal, so having a source of ignition from other vehicles and liquid or vapour petroleum around, didn't seem to faze the forecourt staff or the fire brigade.

John


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## Tbear (Sep 12, 2010)

No John this is the mindset from working on a burns ward for a couple of years


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## Slowhand (Sep 12, 2010)

Good job it wasn't a cancer ward or you'd be scared to eat, drink or breathe without analysing everything first.lol


 'Tis being lighthearted peeps before you get too het up.


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## Basil (Sep 12, 2010)

*Flue*

Hello.
Possibly there are different flu designs for travelling with the gas on but 
most modern campervans have 3 way devices enabling appliances to be used on 12v while travelling.... 
Surely this is much safer....


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## Slowhand (Sep 12, 2010)

British vans don't even let you use the hab lights when travelling I hear, guess it's just an anal British mindset thing that's unfortunately taking peoples minds over.

 Kids have less immunity now because of this mass paranoia that has been seeded in British minds.


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## Randonneur (Sep 12, 2010)

So, back to my original query, even if it is safe to do so, what is the advantage to running your fridge on gas whilst travelling as opposed to running it on 12 volts.  It can't be a cost thing as, at least here in the UK, my local Calor dealer charges £20 per exchange for a 6kg propane.  At that price I'll put up with the supposed power losses ( negligible I would think ), from having my fridge powered by 12 volts from the alternator. Especially as you can't run the engine without the alternator running as well. 

Basically, why waste your gas when you have a perfectly good alternative power source to keep your fridge chilled while you're travelling!!


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## vwalan (Sep 12, 2010)

the reg swallows quite a bit of power .if your batteries are full the reg stops powering and as the load is taken off the power is not used from the engine its possibly 3-5 bhp. thats why drag racers remove the belt just before racing . but slip it back on with the engine running specially on the air cooled motors. . but some fridges dont use 12v is the reason. or the draw from them is not allowing the leisure battery to be charged. the new 3way fridges dont require you to turn off the gas . as they are power sensitive. many of us dont pay calor 20quid for6kg anyway . should be about 7 if you use your head a bit. also manyearly fridges ran full blast on 12v freezing many things you didnt want frozen. and you can run with out an alternator . not advised and not always on newer vehicles. hope that answers your questions. have fun we do .cheers alan.


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## Slowhand (Sep 12, 2010)

You're right Alan, £20 for 6 kg. >£16 for 13 kg's what I pay.


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## Trippytinker (Sep 13, 2010)

I recently asked the same question on another  forum the reason being I was surprised to see that gas Propex Heaters being advertised as being able to be used whilst driving.
The answer was Yes.
 I must admit I was slightly surprised as I have always (when we remember) turned things off but on the odd occasion we have left the fridge/freezer on gas have suffered no problem. We have a 100ltr under-slung tank with one of the new cut-off regulators.


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## Tbear (Sep 13, 2010)

Hi All,
 Just been on to the pro's and it seems that my worry about liquid reaching the flame was wrong and it should not get past the regulator however they recommend that you drive with the gas off in case you damage a pipe or cylinder in an accident and get a massive release of gas. Petrol and diesel "tends" to stay in the tank but if your motor runs on gas - well? The answer seems to be that if you at all worried turn it off but above all drive carefully


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## vwalan (Sep 13, 2010)

hi tbear , get an automatic shut off valve .if a pipe fractures or leaks once the gas as no resistance the valve shuts off. should be compulsory i think in all applications . trouble is many domt understand the principles of how things work so scream danger as a way round thinking. .
imagine being a proffessor now .you have invented a way to transport people around. it travels at speeds of 150ml an hour poisons the air we breath .kills thousands every year by accident. costs alot of hard earned cash. rusts away after 10yr. do you think you would make a fortune.? its a car. governments wouldnt allow it today.  
cheers alan.


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## Tbear (Sep 13, 2010)

Alan 
Don,t mind a bit of danger as long as I understand what the risk is and I can make an informed decision on if its worth it, "Just cos he got away we it" never cut it for me. Good tip about the shut off valve, makes a lot of sense. Not sure how I will fit one? Will it go on the cylinder before regulator or is it reg-pipe-valve-pipe-fridge.


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## Tony Lee (Sep 13, 2010)

There are disadvantages running on 12V.


Probably doesn't matter too much in Britain but often the fridge does not cool very well on 12V compared to gas or mains. Reason is often excessive voltage drop.

!2V operation often has no thermostat so draws current all the time.

Current draw can range from 7 Amps to nearly 15A so if you don't have appropriate devices to disconnect it from the battery when the engine isn't running, you will end up with a flat battery


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## Tbear (Sep 13, 2010)

I drive a Holdsworth van conversion and never had a flat battery but never seems to work as well on 12v as on gas or 240v. I was warned about this by the dealership when I bought it. Its ok if you pre chill it but it will not make ice even after a couple of hundred miles so little better than a cold box. Had it checked out and it is functional just not that good on 12v.


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