# Gas heater - which gas? Red or blue?



## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

I'm about to buy one of these Propane Gas Space Calor Heater Patio Bottle Mounted Sealey LP13 GO NEXTDAY £3.99 | eBay

for use both in my van and occasionally in the house (I only have a woodburner in the kitchen for heating, so when home late at night, this would be great for instant heat when it's too late to light the stove, and it is probably cheaper to run than an elec heater, and more "instant").

I have a 4.5 kg blue Calor gas bottle complete with hose and regulator and 2 x 15kg blue gas bottles. I plan on keeping the 2 x 15kg bottles at home, and probably changing one of them to a red one for winter use. At some point I would like to swop my elec hob cooker at home for a gas hob so I would use these gas bottles for that. 

I'm also planning to change the 4.5kg blue gas bottle to a red one for use in the van during the winter with the heater attachment from ebay which comes with a hose and red gas bottle regulator. 

The question is : Could I use the above heater with the blue gas bottle and regulator as there is still some gas in it which I might as well use up before swopping the bottle for a red one. I know that there is some difference between pressure but so long as I use the right regulator for the gas, will this be ok? 

Also - is there any difference in price between a red gas refill and a blue gas refill? If not, is there any point in having blue gas or should I swop all 3 blue bottles for red gas bottles? 

(I can never remember which gas is which, I know that the red gas will work even in sub-zero temps from my caravanning days, but the blue gas doesn't work so well under about 5C, and that one is propane (red?) and one is butane (blue?), so I refer to them as red gas and blue gas, and then I understand what I'm talking about!)


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## oldish hippy (Dec 16, 2012)

well it you keeping them outside then swap for red as it dont freeze that is what am after will swap it with my mini blue bottle and put new reg on dont forget thatthe calor heater produce water vapour really need ventalation as well


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 16, 2012)

I wouldn't use anything like that inside a van, poisonous gasses, water vapour etc.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

Thanks but I know that the red is better in the cold than the blue and which is why I'm planning to change the bottles to red ones, but I might as well use up the remaining gas in the blue ones first. The question was whether or not the heater will work with either gas so long as I use the appropriate regulator. It's advertised as a Propane (red) gas heater and I just want to check that it will work using blue gas. 

These kind of appliances are safe to use inside or in a van SO LONG AS THERE IS ADEQUATE VENTILATION which there is. Calor gas heaters have been used for years in houses. I use a camping gas stove inside the van but I have a vent directly above it and also a carbon monoxide alarm, which is checked regularly to make sure it works. 

Also if the red gas bottles cost more than the blue, then can I swop the red bottles for blue ones during the summer when temperature shouldn't be an issue?


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## Wooie1958 (Dec 16, 2012)

*I really do not think they are meant for indoor use*

They are meant for use in outdoor areas like Patios etc.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...mZhQejiYGIAw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=1280&bih=685

I take on board all the advice about ventilation and as you will see I am very much alive and kicking after using the gas camping stove with care and for short periods only in the van for over a year. 

I had a calor gas heater in my house for many years, and there are many unventilated stand alone calor gas heaters on the market for indoor use as you will see from the link above. 

This particular device possibly was designed as a patio heater but that does not mean that it is not safe to use inside with care and adequate ventilation. I HAVE ADEQUATE VENTILATION !!!!

I promise not to hold anyone on this thread liable if I am gassed in my van. 

My decision is made, I will be buying this heater for use both in the van and in my home. 

The question is simply do I waste half a bottle of blue gas and swop it straight away for a red one to use with the heater I want to buy from ebay or can I use the blue gas with the correct regulator with this heater?


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## churchie (Dec 16, 2012)

I have just bought a floor standing version to heat / dry out my garage. The instructions state the following

IMPORTANT: The LP14 is a mobile, propane-fired, unvented spave heater for commerial applications only. DO NOT use domestically.

WARNING ! Use only in  well ventilated spaces of more than 15 cubic metres to prevent an accumulation of dangerous combustion gases

Warning Heater will become very hot

Further down the list

DO NOT use any fuel other than propane

I was thinking it would be OK for heat when sat outside but i do not think they are fit for your purpose.
I will try and upload the instructions / warnings if possible

Stay safe

Churchie


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## n brown (Dec 16, 2012)

listen to churchie.houses have high ceilings and large volumes of space.vans are tiny compared.these heaters are industrial and use large amounts of gas,and of course,give out large amounts of monoxide.but should run off either gas.propane as i understand ,burn hotter,so cooking should be quicker etc and save you money,even though the red bottles i use are 13kg,whereas the blue butane are 15kg. i appreciate you feel you have enough ventilation, but if you're wrong can i have your van ?


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

Thanks Churchie, that would be useful. 

I can't see how the mechanism would be any different to the indoor calor gas heaters. From what I can see, they work in exactly the same way. 

I know that there are pressure differences between the blue gas and red gas which was the reason for the question - I don't know if having the correct regulator would solve the pressure differences or not. It may be that the indoor calor gas heaters run only on blue gas whereas the one in the ebay link runs only on red gas. 

Any idea of what kind of size is 15 sq m?


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## churchie (Dec 16, 2012)

Hope this helps


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

n brown said:


> listen to churchie.houses have high ceilings and large volumes of space.vans are tiny compared.these heaters are industrial and use large amounts of gas,and of course,give out large amounts of monoxide.but should run off either gas.propane as i understand ,burn hotter,so cooking should be quicker etc and save you money,even though the red bottles i use are 13kg,whereas the blue butane are 15kg. i appreciate you feel you have enough ventilation, but if you're wrong can i have your van ?



lol, you can have what's left of it after I've blown it up using the wrong gas  

The heater would only be used in the van for extreme winter conditions, I've found that as I've added more insulation the van is getting better at retaining the heat and usually the heat from my camping stove put on for  20 mins / half an hour or so at a time every couple of hours is sufficient to keep the temp up. Having the dog in the van means that the van is always opened last thing before bed for a late night wee and I NEVER put the gas stove on once I've got into bed in case I fall asleep with it on. 

This heater would not need to be on for more than half an hour at a time and only in the coldest conditions so it would only really be a back up. The whirly bird vent in the roof is never shut, even in the worst weather, both for CO and condensation prevention. 

My finances and the design of my van is such that I don't really have any other options for heating during winter. I've been mulling over wood burners in another thread and the same ventilation issues apply there. I want something that is portable so that I don't need to carry it in the van for the 9 months of the year when I wouldn't need it. I've considered the portable gas heaters which run off small butane canisters like the ones I use on the camping stove but this works out a very expensive way of heating and I can't rely on the camping gas stove working well in cold weather unless I keep the gas canister inside my sleeping bag overnight. 

And as these 3 blue gas bottles were freebies I might as well use them and I might as well use up the half bottle of free blue gas that came with them. 

The beauty of this is that it would solve my heating problems both in the house aswell as in the van at a low cost. I realise it's not ideal and I will have to watch out for the dogs tail brushing into it etc but it could make the difference between using the van in winter and not using it at all.


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## churchie (Dec 16, 2012)

15 cubic metres is in van type dimensions

2 metres wide  x  4 metres long which gives you 8 square metres now divide into 15 to get you minimum head height = 1,875 metres tall.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

Thanks for the pic Churchie, very useful.


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 16, 2012)

It's 15 cubic metres, not square metres. Length*Height*Width, then you need to calculate what area the fittings, cupboards, kitchen units, seating, bed etc. take up. I very much doubt you will have 15 cubic metres.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

churchie said:


> 15 cubic metres is in van type dimensions
> 
> 2 metres wide  x  4 metres long which gives you 8 square metres now divide into 15 to get you minimum head height = 1,875 metres tall.



I failed maths o level 4 times :rolleyes2:  I have a hi roof lwb ford transit... could you explain the above calculation in simpleton's language please 

Thanks for the info.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

Aladdinsane said:


> It's 15 cubic metres, not square metres. Length*Height*Width, then you need to calculate what area the fittings, cupboards, kitchen units, seating, bed etc. take up. I very much doubt you will have 15 cubic metres.



Ha ha, fittings, cupboard, kitchen units, seating, bed????  What are those then?? My transit has shelving along one side which contains bedding when not in use and plastic boxes for storage of cooking stuff, clothes etc. At the front behind the cab seats is the dogs cage, about 1m high x 1m wide x 1.6 m long. This has a plywood board on top and doubles up as my workspace/table. The camping stove is on this directly underneath the whirlybird roof vent. There is a single shelf on the other side, running the full length of the van, above sliding door height. There is a small low seat on top of the wheel arch under that shelf. My bed is a sunlounger with foldaway boards on top and memory foam mattress, doubles up as a seat or can be stowed away completely. 

Thanks for the advice, sorry if I was a bit "abrupt"earlier. I just want to make best use of these gas bottles and solve the heating probs both at home and in the van as quickly and cheaply as possible.


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## churchie (Dec 16, 2012)

Thats not a motorhome thats a surfers van


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## n brown (Dec 16, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> Thanks Churchie, that would be useful.
> 
> I can't see how the mechanism would be any different to the indoor calor gas heaters. From what I can see, they work in exactly the same way.
> 
> ...


 cubic metres . if your van is 2 metres high and 2 metres long,and 4 metres long---4x2x2 is 16 cubic metres. i just wouldn't


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## n brown (Dec 16, 2012)

anyway i've got a carver trumatic floor vented heater around, needs a hole in the foor about11x5 inches.you pay the courier its yours


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## churchie (Dec 16, 2012)

It also states in the instructions must be at least 2 metres away from anything flammable or combustible that would also make things difficult in a van.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

churchie said:


> It also states in the instructions must be at least 2 metres away from anything flammable or combustible that would also make things difficult in a van.



That's the problem I've got with if I go for a wood burner too and I've been giving lay out and location of any heater in the van some thought. Using the small 4.5kg bottle would mean it could sit on the top of the dogs cage next to the camping gas stove but much of the heat would go straight up and there would be no heat getting lower down in the van. So I would only be able to use the gas bottle on the floor when the bed is not down, which solves the problem of falling asleep in bed with it on! The dog's tail setting on fire is probably the biggest risk, which I have at home too, so I would have to make a fireguard but he is usually always in his cage when in the van as he's usually pretty wet and muddy and his cage is like a little bedroom for him and helps keep the rest of the van relatively clean. 

This has been something I've been giving alot of thought to recently!!


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

Ha ha, doh  :lol-053:   

Have just sussed.... *B*lue gas = *B* for *B*utane

Now will I remember that in future?


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## Robmac (Dec 16, 2012)

What is the price on that Jess, the title suggests £3.99 but in the listing it says £39.99.

EDIT: Sorry, I've misread it, I see now!


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

This is an alternative NEW OUTDOOR CAMPING BUTANE OR PROPANE LPG CALOR GAS PARABOLIC DOME HEATER FIRE | eBay

The same safety considerations will apply but with a longer hose, the gas bottle could be on the floor out of the way behind the cab seats with the burner safely out of the dogs way on top of the work surface on top of the dogs cage, next to the camping stove. It could probably be angled downwards so that the heat doesn't go straight up and out through the roof vent.


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## Robmac (Dec 16, 2012)

or here's another;

Sunnflair Parabolic Camping Heater | GO Outdoors


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 16, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> This is an alternative NEW OUTDOOR CAMPING BUTANE OR PROPANE LPG CALOR GAS PARABOLIC DOME HEATER FIRE | eBay
> 
> The same safety considerations will apply but with a longer hose, the gas bottle could be on the floor out of the way behind the cab seats with the burner safely out of the dogs way on top of the work surface on top of the dogs cage, next to the camping stove. It could probably be angled downwards so that the heat doesn't go straight up and out through the roof vent.



The clue is in the name, OUTDOOR. I personally would not have ANY gas heater of this type in my van especially with animals around. It does not matter how careful you are there will ALWAYS be accidents. It may not be you but someone will suffer somewhere. Safety first.


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## Tbear (Dec 16, 2012)

Robmac said:


> or here's another;
> 
> Sunnflair Parabolic Camping Heater | GO Outdoors



Hi Robmac

I have one of these for the awning and is does work fairly well. Because it fits on a proper cylinder as opposed to a cartridge, we find it safe and stable but would not use it in the van for long.

Richard


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

Aladdinsane - OK, thanks for your input. You've stated it clearly and I've considered your opinion. There is no need to keep restating it. I am trying to have a discussion with people to get a range of opinions and to find a solution to a problem and am well aware of all the negative issues regarding using gas appliances but I'm really looking for some helpful positive suggestions as to how to solve this problem.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

Robmac & Tbear - I've just been looking at the Sunncamp ones but am not sure if that is a smaller blue campinggaz bottle than the 4.5kg blue calor gas bottle that I have, and so whether the calor gas bottle would work or whether it would need a different regulator for a different sized bottle. Also is there any difference between Campinggaz and Calor Butane?


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 16, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> Aladdinsane - OK, thanks for your input. You've stated it clearly and I've considered your opinion. There is no need to keep restating it. I am trying to have a discussion with people to get a range of opinions and to find a solution to a problem and am well aware of all the negative issues regarding using gas appliances but I'm really looking for some helpful positive suggestions as to how to solve this problem.



It's not an opinion, as stated by the manufacturer they are not suitable for use indoors.


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## sean rua (Dec 16, 2012)

I'm going against the flow here, WVW, but
I meant to say last time, in the thread about woodstoves, that we used the "Sealey" look-alike ( oblong, red-glowing fire) with red propane cylinders for years
for heating and cooking.
Straightaway I'd better say that it's probably illegal nowadays, but i still do it.

Admittedly, we tend to cook in shelters that are open, but in the old days, when we cooked up at work ( steak for breakfast in those days ) we used this thing flat on the floor of the old wooden hut or cabin with a paving slab under it.
 It would be used for cooking the breakfast and would be on most of the time with a big kettle boiling away.

Yes, you get a lot of condensation, but that's what we did for thirty years or more. English blokes just used to have a cuppa and make some toast with the pieces flat on top of the flames.

I bet a lot of folk are gasping with horror, but that's what went on.

I still get the kit out nowadays if weather conditions are so wet I don't feel like lighting a fire.

Your're a bit more sensible than me, but what I'd do is get down the recycling centre and ask for a regulator for the blue butane bottles. Then use up that bit of gas and, after that, never bother with anything but the red bottles ( bigger the better) again. 

Please be aware that this probably contravenes every regulation in the book, and please remember that we had the old hut burn down on us one time in Leith Docks, Edinburgh.
 Btw, if you get a blaze, cut the rubber tube with a sharp knife and drag/spin/roll the cylinder away. Then you can turn off the valve at you leisure, when you're out of harm's way.
 That's why those cylinders are better free standing outside. It's safer.
That said, one cold winter in Northamptonshire, we had two of those big red cylinders inside the trailer - one in each wardrobe!  We used to leave the heater on all night. Not a safe idea, I suppose.

Finally, as an aside, we were in Santa Monica on that third street, or whatever they call it, one evening. As we were dining out by the street, they had those big patio heaters. The cylinders were towering above our heads as we sat at the tables. The smell of gas was terrible but nobody seemed to care a damn.
Though we were roasting hot, one guy called for them to light up yet another one as he reckoned it was a cool evening!

sean rua.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

Aladdinsane said:


> It's not an opinion, as stated by the manufacturer they are not suitable for use indoors.



Ok, what's your helpful suggestion to solve my problem then? If you've nothing helpful to add, please don't spoil the thread by repeating the same negative comments.


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## Manda (Dec 16, 2012)

*Gas Heater-Red or Blue*

No way would I even think of using one of those in my van!!!!!
Red or Blue won't matter in the END!


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## n brown (Dec 16, 2012)

right lets get this bit clear-butane and propane have different pressure regulators because of different calorific values,as i understand it,but both will run the same appliances,although i've heard propex heaters prefer propane[which i don't believe as i've had one on butane for days!]camping gaz is butane.lpg is a mix of both.
  i used to get those room heaters that have a bottle in,preferably the smaller ones,and cut the back off.this left you with a nice little heater about 4 inches deep to hang on the wall.one bar would be plenty for the average van


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 16, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> Ok, what's your helpful suggestion to solve my problem then? If you've nothing helpful to add, please don't spoil the thread by repeating the same negative comments.



Change tack and think of something less dangerous? We all have budgets to live on but sometimes you have to spend to be safe. I know they are expensive but a diesel ebber or gas propex are much safer and very efficient. Please don't take my comments personally. I Don't like the thought of reading the news to hear of another sad end to someone. Who would have thought a barbecue in a tent would end in tragedy?


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

sean rua said:


> I'm going against the flow here, WVW, but
> I meant to say last time, in the thread about woodstoves, that we used the "Sealey" look-alike ( oblong, red-glowing fire) with red propane cylinders for years
> for heating and cooking.
> Straightaway I'd better say that it's probably illegal nowadays, but i still do it.
> ...



Cheers Sean, as so often in life, common sense wins the day. And if I wasn't prepared to take a risk or 2 in life, I wouldn't go off wild camping in the middle of nowhere on my own, with a 10 yr old Transit van and on occasion meet up with a bunch of strangers about whom I know very little other than they post on the same forums as me!  

I really do understand all the issues about gas - the risk of fumes, the risk of explosion etc but having grown up caravanning when all we had was gas lights in our Sprite, and then having had a caravan of my own, where the gas bottles were in the locker at the front of the van (so probably just as much of a risk as having them in a wardrobe), and having spent years cooking on both gas stoves, hexy stoves and meths stoves inside tents, vehicles etc, , I know how to minimise the risks and have appropriate safety kit (and more importantly, I know how to use it) such as fire blanket, extinguisher, sand bucket, first aid etc. Your point about cutting the rubber pipe for quick disposal is a good one, so worth having a knife to hand too. 

When I'm away in the van, I rarely have the side door closed during the day and whenever possible I use the storm kettle outside for water, cooking and sitting around for warmth at night time before bedtime. But this time of year, I do need to have something to take the chill off when I do close the door at night time and to put on for half an hour or so first thing in the morning when I wake up, if only to defrost the milk! But as said, it's just to get the van temp warmed up  a few degrees and would only need to be on for short periods of time. I'm not used to having central heating at home and I think that's toughened me up so it's only when the van's internal temp drops into single figures that I start to feel a bit chilly if sitting around inside the van. Normally when that happens I take the dog out for a run which warms me up too, but it would be nice to have the odd half hour sat in the van warming my toes and fingers in front of a gas heater 

And what's the point of having rules if not to break them every now and again ;-)  The main thing is to make sure you know what the possible consequences might be before you break the rules, and to weigh up the pros and cons, and make your own decision based on your own circumstances, your own knowledge, your own experience, your own skills and abilities. Asking for other people's ideas or points of view can help inform you to make the best decision for you in your individual circumstances, what works for me wouldn't work for other people and vice versa.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

Manda said:


> No way would I even think of using one of those in my van!!!!!
> Red or Blue won't matter in the END!



Hmmm, not a helpful way to introduce yourself to the forum.


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## Bigpeetee (Dec 16, 2012)

One of my former employees bought one of these for use on his converted lifeboat, it was a draughty old hulk ie plenty of ventilation. He used it for an hour and in his words "It nearly killed me" It was abandoned post haste.

He donated it to the Gym next to my unit, they used it for a while, but it was a cavernous place.

Try a caravan breaker for a proper heater, pref one that is sealed to the vehicle.


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## Tbear (Dec 16, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> Robmac & Tbear - I've just been looking at the Sunncamp ones but am not sure if that is a smaller blue campinggaz bottle than the 4.5kg blue calor gas bottle that I have, and so whether the calor gas bottle would work or whether it would need a different regulator for a different sized bottle. Also is there any difference between Campinggaz and Calor Butane?



Hi Whitevanwomen

It screws direct onto a Campingaz 907 so you would need to buy one and the refills are not cheap. You can pick them up at car boots but not often for less than silly money. We had a couple from our tent camping days. We do not often use it so a cylinder lasts us forever but in constant use would be expensive. If I was buying one for regular use then I would look at catalytic heaters which will run off your 4.5 kg cylinder.

Richard

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Catalytic-Caravan-Boat-Heater-/290824362485#vi-content


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## Rubbertramp (Dec 16, 2012)

Can't help much with the technical details Jess but it looks like the connection in your original post link won't fit a bog standard butane regulator (usually for a flexible hose onto a ribbed tube)
Anyway, a good tip for using butane in cold(ish) weather is to well wrap the cylinder in rockwool insulation....about 20 quid a roll from builders merchants, B&Q etc or free off cuts from any building sites near you. Worked well for me last winter....until I encountered -12 temperatures at Stonehenge!


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## oldish hippy (Dec 16, 2012)

Rubbertramp said:


> Can't help much with the technical details Jess but it looks like the connection in your original post link won't fit a bog standard butane regulator (usually for a flexible hose onto a ribbed tube)
> Anyway, a good tip for using butane in cold(ish) weather is to well wrap the cylinder in rockwool insulation....about 20 quid a roll from builders merchants, B&Q etc or free off cuts from any building sites near you. Worked well for me last winter....until I encountered -12 temperatures at Stonehenge!



thanks rt will get some carrier bags and raid the loft dont want that again no coffe that does put me in bad mood when it is lumpy in morning ok minus 12 was ok i didnt freeze just go a bit of condesation  going to get a couple of blue brick and put thos on fire to heat up then pu on top of cokker as rads


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## Firefox (Dec 16, 2012)

Either red or blue will work fine with the right regulator.

I'd wean yourself off blue though, because of the winter aspect. And red means you can fill your bottles with autogas at the petrol stations using an adapter. It's the same stuff except it costs £8 to fill a 6kg bottle not £24 for an exchange bottle.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

n brown said:


> anyway i've got a carver trumatic floor vented heater around, needs a hole in the foor about11x5 inches.you pay the courier its yours



Wow! Sorry only just seen this post. Missed it earlier. Thank you very much for the kind offer. i'm gobsmacked, much appreciated. 

You know you'll have to give me instructions how to fit it, don't you?!

I'll PM you tomorrow. I do have a "spare" hole in the floor too which would probably suit 



[To the tune of White Christmas...]

I'm dreaming of a warm New Year
Not like the one I had last year
When my teeth were chattering
Cos the wind and rain were battering
My only comfort was the beer ....   :wacko:


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## oldish hippy (Dec 16, 2012)

well if you want it wvw then ican arrange to get it to fire foxand when he up north he could arrange it with you i would pop over and see mr brown as he only a few miles away from me it is up to and if mr brown doesnt mind me picking it up


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

oldish hippy said:


> thanks rt will get some carrier bags and raid the loft dont want that again no coffe that does put me in bad mood when it is lumpy in morning ok minus 12 was ok i didnt freeze just go a bit of condesation  going to get a couple of blue brick and put thos on fire to heat up then pu on top of cokker as rads



I have a small cast iron skillet which I got for 50p in a charity shop in the van for doing fried eggs etc, and I sometimes use that as a bed warmer / foot warmer. 

After cooking in it, I clean it using kitchen roll and a splash of hot water (and sometimes a bit of sand if I'm near the beach) and then put it back on the stove clean to heat up, then wrap it in a towel and put into bed to warm it up. Then when I'm in bed it keeps my feet warm. When it's cooled down so there's no heat coming through the towel, then remove the towel and heat toes directly off it for another half hour or so. It works a treat, so long as you don't mind the odd greasy mark on the inside of the sleeping bag or on bedlinen, and make sure to clean all the fluff off it in the morning before using it for frying eggs :lol-053:


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## scampa (Dec 16, 2012)

Hi WVW,

If I remember correctly, the capacity of a long wheel base, hi-roof transit van is 11.29 cubic metres, so according to the safety instructions posted earlier, this heater is not suitable for your van. (And that's before you consider the vans' contents, such as any (temporary?) fixtures and fittings, luggage, dog, cat, and a very slim WVW!)



n brown said:


> anyway i've got a carver trumatic floor vented heater around, needs a hole in the foor about11x5 inches.you pay the courier its yours



If I were you, I would take up Mr Bs' kind offer of a Carver heater for your van, then get one of the normal domestic type gas heaters to use in your house, such as this one....  (It isn't too much dearer than the one you were going to buy)

4.2kw GAS CABINET HEATER PORTABLE | eBay

Just a couple of points (I hope they don't sound too negative??  :scared....

The heater you were thinking of really isn't suitable for an enclosed space such as a van, or even a house.  It's more suited to use in a large open plan workshop, or an outside area such as a patio or yard.

With due respect, I couldn't recommend the idea of cutting a gas hose in the event of a fire, then dragging the cylinder to a place of safety. It sounds good at first glance, but if the gas from the hose ignites, then you would be dragging the burning gas with you (possibly igniting everything else as you go).  And if it doesn't ignite, then you will have surrounded yourself in unburned gas, just waiting to go kaboom!!  (burning gas is usually much safer than a quantity of unignited gas).

Here's a couple of links that you might find useful.

The first one shows which calor gas cylinders you can exchange with other types......  

https://secure.calor.co.uk/ordercalorcylinders/SuitableCylinderExchange.asp

These two show the current prices of the various calor cylinders......

PROPANE (RED)    https://secure.calor.co.uk/ordercalorcylinders/default.asp?PageType=propane

BUTANE (BLUE)     https://secure.calor.co.uk/ordercalorcylinders/default.asp?PageType=butane

Hope you manage to keep warm (and safe!) this winter.


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## Firefox (Dec 16, 2012)

No probs, I can shuttle it from Avebury to Helwith Bridge if needed


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

oldish hippy said:


> well if you want it wvw then ican arrange to get it to fire foxand when he up north he could arrange it with you i would pop over and see mr brown as he only a few miles away from me it is up to and if mr brown doesnt mind me picking it up



OH, I would give you a big smacker for that offer but I wouldn't want to make you blush 

I've had a Baileys or 3 now and am a bit fuzzy in the head (more than usual) but I'll be in touch with Mr Brown and your good self sometime tomorrow once the paracetamol have kicked in and the hangover has worn off :scared:

Many many thanks to you good people. I hope to be able to return some favours some day. In fact, I could make you some home made 100% local cumbrian home spun hand knitted fingerless gloves or mittens if you would like some.


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## scampa (Dec 16, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> OH, I would give you a big smacker for that offer but I wouldn't want to make you blush



I think Hippy will be delivering the heater to you personally now. Probably within the hour!!


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## oldish hippy (Dec 16, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> I have a small cast iron skillet which I got for 50p in a charity shop in the van for doing fried eggs etc, and I sometimes use that as a bed warmer / foot warmer.
> 
> After cooking in it, I clean it using kitchen roll and a splash of hot water (and sometimes a bit of sand if I'm near the beach) and then put it back on the stove clean to heat up, then wrap it in a towel and put into bed to warm it up. Then when I'm in bed it keeps my feet warm. When it's cooled down so there's no heat coming through the towel, then remove the towel and heat toes directly off it for another half hour or so. It works a treat, so long as you don't mind the odd greasy mark on the inside of the sleeping bag or on bedlinen, and make sure to clean all the fluff off it in the morning before using it for frying eggs :lol-053:



ok will have to get a old cast iron pan dont need it for heating the bed just have to find a wicked woman for that lol  no i have my hotties for doing that just bought a new hot water bottle in furry cover and have my other one as well sat here at moment with it on my back i use sleeping bag liners got some fleecy ones they wher cheap only 2 quid in tesco think they are a fiver now saves my decent sleeping bag from sweaty feet


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## oldish hippy (Dec 16, 2012)

scampa said:


> I think Hippy will be delivering the heater to you personally now. Probably within the hour!!



just in tescos now filling up with fuel think iget there and back  on a tank full got flask of coffee beside me and sat nav as well just do it on tank full well 25 quids worth of fuel approx


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 16, 2012)

oldish hippy said:


> just in tescos now filling up with fuel think iget there and back  on a tank full got flask of coffee beside me and sat nav as well



Lol, so I can expect you sometime next weekend then?    Poor Eeyore! Such a drive at this time of year! How cruel!

Although couldn't you just find a friendly truckie whose heading for Scotland and park Eeyore inside his container, just make sure he drops you off before you get to the Scottish Border!


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## oldish hippy (Dec 17, 2012)

yes got pick the heater up first iforgot about that in my haste lol  ps drop at the truck stopworked out fuel have added to other post


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## sean rua (Dec 17, 2012)

OK, as WVW mentioned, different things suit different people.

I'm probably a bit too blase about gas and fumes and fire, bc I've had a lot of experiences with all three. In fact, I'm irrepairably damaged by fumes and toxins that overcame me when I was working in a tunnel in Dagenham years ago. So I'm well aware of the consequences.

Again, I've seen the welder's bottles go on fire scores of times, and I mean right at the valve on the top of the bottle.

Also, one time near Fleet, when we were tunnelling under the M3, we were working in compressed air and a spark off the burner's torch ignited some straw we had down there ( to control the ground and water) and then set fire to the hydraulics ( oil) leading to the shield. 
It was pretty scary and we only stooped the fire by shovelling the sand onto the flames. The worst thing was the fumes and the lack of oxygen. I wouldn't recommend it for a healthy life! 

I suppose I should have been more comprehensive when I said about cutting the tube.
If you fear ignition, then nip the tube first ( fold it over to kink and seal) with one hand, then slice through the tube between your hand and the fire.
 We never used to bother too much with that as our priority was to get the cylinder away. Those cylinders cost money and the suppliers mightn't be too happy if they're sent  back with the paint burnt off. 

Be safe; be lucky! 

sean rua.

ps

You might want to spliff up before reading this bit ( from the truth about co):

" Carbon monoxide is present in all tobacco smoke and is a health risk that all smokers should know about.
*
Cigarette users inhale four times the carbon monoxide found in car exhaust*. The smoke from one pack of cigarettes can raise the carbon monoxide concentration in a home to twice the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) safety limit for outdoor air."

Don't have nightmares!


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 17, 2012)

sean rua said:


> OK, as WVW mentioned, different things suit different people.
> 
> I'm probably a bit too blase about gas and fumes and fire, bc I've had a lot of experiences with all three. In fact, I'm irrepairably damaged by fumes and toxins that overcame me when I was working in a tunnel in Dagenham years ago. So I'm well aware of the consequences.
> 
> ...


I hope you have your tongue firmly in your cheek? 

Cutting near straw (or any other flammable material) is irresponsible and stupid.

Risking you life and others to save a gas cylinder? same as above


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 17, 2012)

sean rua said:


> OK, as WVW mentioned, different things suit different people.
> 
> I'm probably a bit too blase about gas and fumes and fire, bc I've had a lot of experiences with all three. In fact, I'm irrepairably damaged by fumes and toxins that overcame me when I was working in a tunnel in Dagenham years ago. So I'm well aware of the consequences.
> 
> ...



Presumably my every day CO level must be permanently above safe limits - might explain why I live with my head in the clouds alot of the time! 

I tend to take the attitude that you should live for today cos you might get run over by a bus tomorrow  

That said I don't (usually) take unnecessary risks, and from experience, I do try to look at the pros and cons, and to do my own personal risk assessment, taking into account my own skills, experience and knowledge which are going to be very different to someone else's in the same position. 

Having had a cancer scare recently, it made me realise that there are things I would like to do in life, which I won't do unless I take a risk. Buying the van was one such risk. Sometimes the risk pays off, sometimes it doesn't. That's life and there's always something to learn from each and every situation.


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## Robmac (Dec 17, 2012)

Like climbing a mountain really, worth doing, but you might fall off.


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 17, 2012)

Aladdinsane said:


> I hope you have your tongue firmly in your cheek?
> 
> Cutting near straw (or any other flammable material) is irresponsible and stupid.
> 
> Risking you life and others to save a gas cylinder? same as above



Look, I've tried to say this nicely but the hint has not been taken. So I'll just say this clearly now...

Please keep your negative comments to yourself and do not post them here. They are not welcome and will be reported from now on. I've been a member of this forum for a year now and during that time I've only reported a couple of other posts so reporting your posts is a measure of just how thoroughly p***ed off I am with your unwanted interference.


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## oldish hippy (Dec 17, 2012)

well i got a heater in my hall way anyone want it lol and got my heater for my van not bothering with skillet got some more chunk a sash weight chuck it in the fire and the take it into van and put on top of cooker


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## maingate (Dec 17, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> Look, I've tried to say this nicely but the hint has not been taken. So I'll just say this clearly now...
> 
> Please keep your negative comments to yourself and do not post them here. They are not welcome and will be reported from now on. I've been a member of this forum for a year now and during that time I've only reported a couple of other posts so reporting your posts is a measure of just how thoroughly p***ed off I am with your unwanted interference.



And I think you need to take a chill pill missy. You seem to be getting above yourself.

You have asked for help and the advice offered has been in order to stop you being harmed by potentially lethal equipment.


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## oldish hippy (Dec 17, 2012)

well let see if we can figure out where you should put it  as you will have lot of junk underneath the van


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 17, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> Look, I've tried to say this nicely but the hint has not been taken. So I'll just say this clearly now...
> 
> Please keep your negative comments to yourself and do not post them here. They are not welcome and will be reported from now on. I've been a member of this forum for a year now and during that time I've only reported a couple of other posts so reporting your posts is a measure of just how thoroughly p***ed off I am with your unwanted interference.



Report me for what? My comments are based on heath and safety issues. If you disagree with them then that is your prerogative. They are not defamatory in any way. Many people read this forum and may have been tempted to use improper equipment in their vans. I have just pointed out the folly in doing so. You may be well aware of the implications of such use but others may not. As for my last post do you disagree with my general point?


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 17, 2012)

I give up! Anyone else want to have a go? I presume that if as others are allowed to post negative critical opinions then I am too.  After all, that is exactly what all this thread is, just opinions (apart from the factual info posted by Churchie - thank you for that, btw). And those of you who know me, know that it's not often I do that, but like most people, sometimes I'm just pushed tooooooo far and when someone ignores polite requests, what is the next step? I could have kept quiet and just reported posts without anyone knowing, would that be better? 

I'm very very lucky to have some very good friends on this forum who behind the scenes have gone a long long way to help me and that has restored my faith in people and made me realise that there really are some decent folk around who don't just sit there offering negative criticism but who go out of their way to actively help me solve the problem in the first place. They know who they are and they are on my "People who I want to thank in person" list, and are people who I have genuine respect for because they have offered genuine advice, sometimes it may not be what I want to hear but it's constructive and helpful, not simply  negative and belittling.


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## Robmac (Dec 17, 2012)

Aladdinsane said:


> Report me for what? My comments are based on heath and safety issues. If you disagree with them then that is your prerogative. They are not defamatory in any way. Many people read this forum and may have been tempted to use improper equipment in their vans. I have just pointed out the folly in doing so. You may be well aware of the implications of such use but others may not. As for my last post do you disagree with my general point?



I think the problem is that you have pointed it out several times whereas once would have been enough.


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## shortcircuit (Dec 17, 2012)

It appears that this heater is not a good idea and I would suggest in addition you purchase a canary


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 17, 2012)

Robmac said:


> I think the problem is that you have pointed it out several times whereas once would have been enough.


Pointed out my concern to the original post then, advice given on cubic metres, concern regarding another option mentioned in a later post(similar type of outdoor heater) posted RE. manufacturers label, stating outdoors use only. Posted a couple of options for other heaters. Then I HAD to reply the the ridiculous post by Sean rua. Don't think I went over the top when safety is paramount.


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## Robmac (Dec 17, 2012)

Well if this site is going to be all about health and safety I think I'll leave you to it. I have enough of that at work.

I was at a site last year on a red hot day and was made to wear a hard hat, goggles, boots, gloves and hi vis gear whilst unloading, I sweated so much that I was physically shaking by the time I had finished. But at least the bloke with the clip board could tick his boxes.


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 17, 2012)

Robmac said:


> Well if this site is going to be all about health and safety I think I'll leave you to it. I have enough of that at work.
> 
> I was at a site last year on a red hot day and was made to wear a hard hat, goggles, boots, gloves and hi vis gear whilst unloading, I sweated so much that I was physically shaking by the time I had finished. But at least the bloke with the clip board could tick his boxes.



I agree H/S has gone overboard but when it comes to gas appliances in small spaces, what would you do?


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## whitevanwoman (Dec 17, 2012)

Admin / mods

Please could you close this thread as the original problem which was the reason for posting has now been resolved and so no further discussion is needed.

Thank you.


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## n brown (Dec 17, 2012)

shortcircuit said:


> It appears that this heater is not a good idea and I would suggest in addition you purchase a canary


cuddling a canary won't keep you warm,they're not big enough


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## sean rua (Dec 17, 2012)

I respect the wishes of the opening poster who, thankfully, has got her heater problem sorted.

However, those who say my posts were ridiculous might as well say that life is ridiculous, for
everything I said actually happened and I was there.

I have first-hand experience of all the incidents mentioned; I've prefaced everything with a warning for those who haven't a clue, so, imo, there is no problem.:rolleyes2:

Life isn't always just like it says in the textbook. We might as well say the game of rugby should be banned, even though some of its greatest exponents have been doctors and surgeons.

Good luck to ye all, and for the more adventurous, have a look at Ray Mears sitting by his woodburner in his tent ( on youtube).
He's not known as a far-out extremist, as far as I know.

Happy Christmas, Turkeys! :rockroll::cool1::drive:

sean rua.


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 17, 2012)

Sean rua, Quote

"Btw, if you get a blaze, cut the rubber tube with a sharp knife and drag/spin/roll the cylinder away. Then you can turn off the valve at you leisure, when you're out of harm's way".

This is your excellent advice? 

And in your next post, 

"I suppose I should have been more comprehensive when I said about cutting the tube.
If you fear ignition, then nip the tube first ( fold it over to kink and seal) with one hand, then slice through the tube between your hand and the fire.
We never used to bother too much with that as our priority was to get the cylinder away. Those cylinders cost money and the suppliers mightn't be too happy if they're sent back with the paint burnt off"

Then you say be safe!! 

Oh and by the way Ray Mears has the flue OUTSIDE of his tent. No noxious gasses inside.


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## sean rua (Dec 17, 2012)

Sure, Alladin, I know Ray has the tube outside the tent; we discussed similar on the other thread that was about using a wood-burner.
I cannot see a problem there.

Venting the gas heater is no more a problem than is venting gas cookers in house kitchens, restaurant kitchens, and caravans. Where there's a will there's a way. Obviously, it's not for you, but I was talking about things that we've done for more than forty years.

When it comes to theory and knowledge of the law, I bow to your superior knowledge and make no bones about it.
When it comes to knowing what it's like to deal with a gas fire, then I know what we did, and I know what actually happened. If any man can close a wheel valve on a gas cylinder quicker than I nipped and cut that rubber tube, then I'd congratulate him. I know from experience that I never could, not even in my prime.

In some ways I'm rather surprised, for I thought that ye people who spent a long time in school would have learnt a bit about the old bunsen burner and how to deal with a blowback or fire in the tube.


Good luck to ye all and Happy Christmas!


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 17, 2012)

sean rua said:


> Sure, Alladin, I know Ray has the tube outside the tent; we discussed similar on the other thread that was about using a wood-burner.
> I cannot see a problem there.
> 
> Venting the gas heater is no more a problem than is venting gas cookers in house kitchens, restaurant kitchens, and caravans. Where there's a will there's a way. Obviously, it's not for you, but I was talking about things that we've done for more than forty years.
> ...


Yep we learned how to avoid it in the first place!


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## scampa (Dec 17, 2012)

Brrrrrr.....  Who needs a gas fire to keep warm when we can all have a heated debate instead?!!  

And please stop "rubbing Aladdin up the wrong way"!!  (sorry Aladdin, but you DO have a magic lamp, and it IS panto season!)


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 17, 2012)

scampa said:


> Brrrrrr.....  Who needs a gas fire to keep warm when we can all have a heated debate instead?!!
> 
> And please stop "rubbing Aladdin up the wrong way"!!  (sorry Aladdin, but you DO have a magic lamp, and it IS panto season!)



Please be assured my lamp is powered by low voltage LED's Oh! yes it is!


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## Tbear (Dec 17, 2012)

How many people die in gas fires every year?

How many people die of C0 poisoning every year?

How many people die of Hypothermia every Year?

I do not know the figures but I would bet money on Hypothermia being the bigger figure.

No death is acceptable so lets stop bickering and try and help each other.

Richard


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## Aladdinsane (Dec 17, 2012)

BBC News - Nicholas Holmes: Camper van death caused by barbecue
Shropshire campsite death: Girl, 14, killed in her tent by barbecue fumes | Mail Online
Barbecue fumes may have killed six-year-old girl - Telegraph
BBC News - Camping death caused by barbecue

Is that enough! 

I am really sickend by SOME of the attitudes on here, the  acknowledgment(like) of postings  with  irresponsible content is unbelievable. 

In the end you can't put brains in turnips!


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## n brown (Dec 17, 2012)

seans right and his point may be being missed,life was a lot simpler before all the carefulness culture cut in and this little chat shows the changes.we just did things,didn't research them first,didn't care.some of it was totally irresponsible and we kind of knew it but still didn't care because we felt capable of handling it.
BUT on a forum like this i have to give advice  bearing in mind that some people who may read it might never have done anything practical ever and take advice as gospel to be followed religiously word for word. which is kind of what forums are about. so everybody has a right to join in in their own way,keeps it colourful.


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## scampa (Dec 17, 2012)

To be fair, I HAVE heard of Shauns' method of cutting the hose to move a cylinder before. But I still say that it is too dangerous to recommend, and to be honest, I can't see a need to cut the hose without turning the cylinder valve off first.

IF you have time to move a gas cylinder SAFELY, then it only takes a couple of seconds to turn off the valve first. The time-consuming part would be trying to disconnect the cylinder from the regulator or manifold before moving it, but this is where you could save time by cutting the hose instead, but only AFTER the cylinder valve has been turned off.

There's a variety of factors to consider before deciding if it's safe to move a gas cylinder away from a fire area, so the best advice for the majority of people is not to even try it. Just get everyone away to a safe place and let somebody else deal with it!


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## maingate (Dec 17, 2012)

I have used (and been around) oxy-acetylene all my working life and did not need H & S to tell me to treat it with respect. The few times there was an incident with it, cowboys were to blame.

Speaking of cowboys, when I was an apprentice, we had some scrap men in to get rid of the big pile of scrap in the yard. This idiot started cutting into a big hydraulic chock used on the coal face. It was well and truly seized and rusted. The heat built up pressure in the cylinder until the piston part blew out of the end with a huge bang, flew about 50 yards and demolished part of a wall next to the Stores serving hatch where a man had been stood a minute earlier. The man with the torch was a gibbering wreck and he had sh*t himself. :lol-049:

The best way to stay safe in the working environment is the ability to know an idiot when you see one. :dance:


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## scampa (Dec 17, 2012)

maingate said:


> The best way to stay safe in the working environment is the ability to know an idiot when you see one. :dance:



I believe Health & Safety insist that all idiots wear their own unique design of hi-viz jacket, for this very purpose!


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## Caz (Dec 18, 2012)

Aladdinsane said:


> BBC News - Nicholas Holmes: Camper van death caused by barbecue
> Shropshire campsite death: Girl, 14, killed in her tent by barbecue fumes | Mail Online
> Barbecue fumes may have killed six-year-old girl - Telegraph
> BBC News - Camping death caused by barbecue
> ...



Let's look at these cases you have quoted.

1) Young man uses disposable barbecue to cook a meal and then leaves it to burn out inside his campervan.

2) Disposable barbecue taken into modern airtight tent and left to burn out.

3) This report doesn't give the cause of death and the barbecue which MAY have been responsible was outside the tent!

4) Barbecue left burning inside ""a "no frills" wooden hut with no ventilation""

I don't recall the OP suggesting taking a burning barbecue into her tranny and leaving it burning all night.

Barbecues give off a much greater amount of CO when left smouldering all night than a properly maintained gas fuelled appliance used for a short while.

Let's get things in proportion.


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## Teutone (Dec 18, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> I'm about to buy one of these Propane Gas Space Calor Heater Patio Bottle Mounted Sealey LP13 GO NEXTDAY £3.99 | eBay
> 
> I am sorry to say this but you must be nuts to use one of these IN THE VAN! I have one on the garage and even on the lowest setting it chucks out a lot of heat, far too much for a small van IMHO
> Not even speaking of the puff of flames I sometimes create when lighting it up, there is a lot of gas coming out and if you need to click the lighter more than 2 times before it gets going, you can already loose some of your hair when it finally puffs into life.
> ...


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## Admin (Dec 18, 2012)

thread closed at the request of whitevanwoman


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