# Floor delamination.



## bigboack (Oct 24, 2009)

Hi all has anyone done the floor on there MH, Mine needs doing during the winter months, Will do it myself but I was wondering if I can use beech dowels to plug the holes with, and do they have to go in to touch the underneath board or are they just to plug the holes. Any advice will be greatly recieved.


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## Randonneur (Oct 24, 2009)

Hi,
I've not done de-lamination myself but I believe there are kits out there that use a resin compound that is injected into the cavity caused by the de-lamination. The hole is then plugged with the dowels and you leave it for a couple of days with a heavy weight on it to press it together, ( you could use paving slabs or bricks ).

Your best bet may be to look in the caravan magazines for diy kits and suppliers. Hope this helps.


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## bigboack (Oct 24, 2009)

*Thanks.*



Randonneur said:


> Hi,
> I've not done de-lamination myself but I believe there are kits out there that use a resin compound that is injected into the cavity caused by the de-lamination. The hole is then plugged with the dowels and you leave it for a couple of days with a heavy weight on it to press it together, ( you could use paving slabs or bricks ).
> 
> Your best bet may be to look in the caravan magazines for diy kits and suppliers. Hope this helps.



Done all the research but cant find a mention about the plugs so was wondering about using beech dowels and the depth for them to go. Thank anyway. Will take pics along the way so will post on here for anyone else, Thats if it works of course.


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## LOC (Oct 24, 2009)

I helped a friend a few years ago to repair the floor in his caravan. I seem to recall the instructions for injecting etc came with the repair material. However, when we did my friends the first thing I did was to put temporary supports under the floor to ensure there was not going to be a hollow in the floor from the weights we put on top of the repair. Otherwise it was a straight forward job. Beech dowels should be fine and they do not really have to be inserted the full depth of the floor. 

Len


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## Firefox (Oct 25, 2009)

John Wikersham covers the subject in some detail with pics in the Haynes Motorcaravan manual as I remember.


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## tan-all-over (Oct 25, 2009)

*flooring*

Hi yes I'm sorry to say I have done this to my m/home about three times in different place's and it is quite easy but can be messy. (use gloves) The kit costs £30 a time and I do not think it makes any difference what kind of dowels you use as long as they are the right size.The book says to mark out the floor and drill with 3 inch space's. No, the dowel dose not have to reach the bottom floor its only a plug. I would have no hessitation in doing this yourself just take your time have lots of rags to clean up as you go. Also make sure you have every thing to hand, you do not want to go looking for anything once you have mixed the two part glue. Let us know how you get on and email if you want to ask anything. good luck. regards Chris


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## Mick H (Oct 25, 2009)

bigboack said:


> Hi all has anyone done the floor on there MH, Mine needs doing during the winter months, Will do it myself but I was wondering if I can use beech dowels to plug the holes with, and do they have to go in to touch the underneath board or are they just to plug the holes. Any advice will be greatly recieved.



I rectified a delaminated floor in our Lunar Roadstar. It wasn't difficult, I just followed the instructions on the tin from Apollo chemicals.
I supported the floor underneath, where I could, using boards and jacks.
I didn't use any dowels, but filled the holes to the top, using a syringe to inject the chemical. I then covered the holes with polythene, before using boards and anything that was to hand, for weights.
After a few days I removed all of this and sanded the excess with a power tool, finishing with a coat of matt black, to match the existing floor.

Mick H.


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## bigboack (Oct 25, 2009)

LOC said:


> I helped a friend a few years ago to repair the floor in his caravan. I seem to recall the instructions for injecting etc came with the repair material. However, when we did my friends the first thing I did was to put temporary supports under the floor to ensure there was not going to be a hollow in the floor from the weights we put on top of the repair. Otherwise it was a straight forward job. Beech dowels should be fine and they do not really have to be inserted the full depth of the floor.
> 
> Len



Thanks lok. just what i was looking for


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## bigboack (Oct 25, 2009)

*Thanks firefox.*



Firefox said:


> John Wikersham covers the subject in some detail with pics in the Haynes Motorcaravan manual as I remember.



Thanks firefox found it on Page 39, You know i forgot i had this book, The old brain cells are dying of you know.


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## bigboack (Oct 25, 2009)

Mick H said:


> I rectified a delaminated floor in our Lunar Roadstar. It wasn't difficult, I just followed the instructions on the tin from Apollo chemicals.
> I supported the floor underneath, where I could, using boards and jacks.
> I didn't use any dowels, but filled the holes to the top, using a syringe to inject the chemical. I then covered the holes with polythene, before using boards and anything that was to hand, for weights.
> After a few days I removed all of this and sanded the excess with a power tool, finishing with a coat of matt black, to match the existing floor.
> ...



Why didnt you use dowels?? Did you not use more chemical this way and is it still ok, How long ago did you do it.??

Cheers


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## Polly (Oct 25, 2009)

Hia
A BIG THANK YOU for this information.
My son as a caravan and he as been told that this can be done to his floor but was not sure 
I can pass on the info
Thanks again


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## Mick H (Oct 25, 2009)

bigboack said:


> Why didnt you use dowels?? Did you not use more chemical this way and is it still ok, How long ago did you do it.??
> 
> Cheers



The instructions didn't specify using dowels, and of course, more chemical was used, but this would have been thrown away anyway , because it doesn't have a very long shelf life, when it has been opened.
Also, at about the same time, I read an article in Motorhome Monthy that used the same method.

It would have been about 6 years ago that I carried out the work.

Mick H.


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## bigboack (Oct 25, 2009)

Mick H said:


> The instructions didn't specify using dowels, and of course, more chemical was used, but this would have been thrown away anyway , because it doesn't have a very long shelf life, when it has been opened.
> Also, at about the same time, I read an article in Motorhome Monthy that used the same method.
> 
> It would have been about 6 years ago that I carried out the work.
> ...



Thanks for this mick might just do it this way then.


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## bigboack (Oct 25, 2009)

*Cant be used in a caravan'*



Polly said:


> Hia
> A BIG THANK YOU for this information.
> My son as a caravan and he as been told that this can be done to his floor but was not sure
> I can pass on the info
> Thanks again



Hi polly you cant do this to a caravan floor as it has no engine and only two wheels, so as this is a MH forum you are not allowed to pass on info from this secret society to the  Enemy, Its like passing on nulcear warhead plans to the Iranians.

Nah hope he gets it sorted nowt worse than a creaky floor when your trying to sneek to the loo,or coming in from the pub.Let me know if he sorts it.


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## Randonneur (Oct 25, 2009)

QUOTE :- Its like passing on nuclear warhead plans to the Iranians.

I thought all this stuff was on the internet anyway. Jolly Rogers' Cookbook anyone???


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## bigboack (Oct 26, 2009)

Randonneur said:


> QUOTE :- Its like passing on nuclear warhead plans to the Iranians.
> 
> I thought all this stuff was on the internet anyway. Jolly Rogers' Cookbook anyone???



Was it something i said.

It was a Joke, obviously.


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## Randonneur (Oct 26, 2009)

No secrets on this forum, we'll help out caravanners if they're stuck!. 

As for nuclear warhead plans, I'm told all you need is few household ingredients in the right quantities, ( don't ask me, I don't know or want to!! ), could be good for firework night though!


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## biggirafe (Apr 10, 2010)

Hi
I was looking for some info on fixing some delamination in my van. I found these 2 really useful sites. The most useful thing is that it can be achieved from underneath the van which is a godsend as I have a laminated floor. 

Wizards Caravan Repair

Delamination


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## sugdenr (Apr 11, 2010)

*Floor Repair*

I have done this an about to do again to another part.

The demalination repair is actually a fancy name. The 'glue' used is just a 2 part epoxy resin (resin & hardener) usually a 50/50 mix version. Apollo are best known but it is not special, its just a low viscosity (very runny to soak in etc).

The dowels are partly because epoxy is strong as a glue but NOT as a hole filler. You just need big holes to get the glue in, any wood dowl will do in, saves adhesive and adds substance. Also it can help bond top an bottom layers of floor for a stonger repair. I use 10mm wooden rod from B&Q and cut it up, leave it longer, hammer in, leave set and bit fiddly but OK then cut off.

2 useful facts about epoxy. 1 it wont stick to polythene, so if you need to seal underneath (where I accidentally drilled all way through with 10mm drill then use polythene sheet taped on and supported underneath with a piece of spare plywood screwed/jacked/chocked to seal it). 2 the epoxy monomer (the resin before it starts to go 'off' (polymerise) after mixing with the hardener) is water soluble, so if you have problem before if starts to go off thickens and goes like a gel then sets, you may be able to wash it off with water

Try and get some cheap disposable latex gloves.

Finally, if you ever watch any F1 tech programmes you see that the favourite vessel for mixing epoxy is those coke/coffee cups and wooden/plastic stirrers. Huge coke ones for big lots, small coffee ones for smaller batches. Cheap and disposable.

Epoxy is exothermic and sets faster with temperature. If you mix a batch and leave it in the cup too long it will heat up and go off super quick, bigger the batch hotter it gets etc. Mix same batch and pour it out and will take the full time to go off!

I even repaired my floor by at teh same time gluing new sections of ply top and bottom.

My repair on one side has now lasted perfectly for 2 yrs, about to do the other side, its where the mastic holding side skit on has gone hard an the water has run down the side of van and rotted the edges.

Make sure your wood is bone dry before trying to glue. Leave it to dry out for few days/weeks.

If the section to too rotten epoxy alone will not make it as stong as before, you will need to look to add repair section of ply.


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## biggirafe (Apr 11, 2010)

*Fixing delamination using expanding foam.*



biggirafe said:


> Hi
> I was looking for some info on fixing some delamination in my van. I found these 2 really useful sites. The most useful thing is that it can be achieved from underneath the van which is a godsend as I have a laminated floor.
> 
> Wizards Caravan Repair
> ...



So today we have fixed the floor, from underneath using expandable foam.

Not sure if its 100% success yet but so far so good.

Here the process I carried out, I'm not saying this is the way to do it nor am I saying that everything I say is 100% correct. If anything is wrong please feel free to put in your 2p worth.

It cost me £10 not the £25 + pp for a delam kit on the internet and £45 my local caravan centre wanted. On top of this to do the job from underneath I would also have needed a special glue gun which is another £40 + pp

Floors are constucted of 2 sheets of ply with a layer of polystrene foam sandwiched between. Delamination happens when fat gits like me always tread in the same place and squash the foam layer. eventually the ply pulls away from the foam (delaminates) and leaves a void which will grow and spread if left.

For me the area was outside of the toilet and where you step down from the seating area at the back of the MH







First off I marked out the full extent of the area with chalk and measured it






Then I transferred this plan to paper, not pretty and not 100% accurate. The important thing for me is that I know where the air vents are in the raised floor and I know where the hole is for the fire, these were my base points when under the van






Inside the van I then placed a piece of wood over the area and added some weight, this was not enough I had to add my tool box and a full 13kg gas cylinder later as the floor started to rise when the foam expanded. I thought about asking Nic to sit on it but why ruin a good day.






Under the van I transfered my drawing using the vents in the floor and the hole for the fires as base lines






Then I marked out 6 places to drill my holes, The hose of the foam injector should be a tight fit, I used an 8.5 mm drill bit.

Next drill your first hole very carefully through the wood, its only thin. I then removed the drill bit and by hand drilled up through the foam until I touched the underneath of the floor.






I then pulled the drill back about 1/4 inch and wound tape around it at that point. This is too ensure that you do not drill through into the hab area . In fact I only drilled through the wood and then by hand drilled out the foam.






Next is the fun bit, stick the pipe of the expanding foam into the holes. Squirt and stop Squirt and stop as soon as it starts to come out of the hole next door stop and push in a plug. I left the 1 in the middle of the worst area until last. By the time I got to it foam was oozing out good and proper. Let me tell you if the devil had a cold this would be his snot. Its foul sticky stuff that gets everywhere once spilt. I did not wear gloves and I will regret it all week. I also have a sticky patch under the van that will need cleaning, I had paperdown but it missed, on the plus side its very sticky so once set I recon its going to do a good job of sticking things back together












Expanding foam goes in as a liquid then reacts and expands so you need to have 6 plugs ready to put into the holes. They need to be a tight fit or they will be pushed out. The last one I left out for a little while to allow the excess foam to escape, if I had not done this I'm sure the floor would have ended up with a bulge as it was I needed to add more weight inside as it began to lift the water bottles.

Hope this helps those that want to try this method. I'm fairly sure you could do similar with the proper kit but you would need to find some way of pumping the stuff in, the correct gun is £40 + pp on the net.

I'll report back on the finished results. One thing I'm wondering is if this foam is man enough or whether it will just crush when stepped on. You can also get a similar product but its a 'filler' this might be the stuff thats needed, I'm willing to drill out the holes and try again if its failed after all the holes are underneath so its not a case of pulling up the floor again.


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## maingate (Apr 11, 2010)

BG,

Looking at your photo`s, I think you would be doing yourself a favour if you could add an extra bit of support under the van.

It looks a fairly big unsupported area to take the weight of an adult (and you are no scrawny chicken).

Some vans had `delamination` when in fact part of the problem was poor design. I even read that a m/home had left the factory with supports missing. 

Have another look underneath and see if it is possible to strengthen the floor.

BTW; Stick to a keyboard, your artistic skills are non-existent.


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## biggirafe (Apr 11, 2010)

maingate said:


> BG,
> 
> Looking at your photo`s, I think you would be doing yourself a favour if you could add an extra bit of support under the van.
> 
> ...



Thanks, I had thought the same myself.

Trouble is the waste tank goes over part of the area so adding meaning full strength will not be easy. 

I'm tempted to glue and screw a ply panel but I'm not sure how much use this will be unless the panel is quite thick. Some wooden rafters and a ply panel on top of them would add a lot more stength but a bit obvious when it comes to sale time.

 Another aluminium strut is the answer but thats quite a major thing to do as it would need to be made to fit between the current frame.

I'll see if this fix has worked first, if not it will need the proper kit and then I'll see about stopping it happen again.


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## biggirafe (Apr 12, 2010)

Well folks, its worked, I can say that it is possible to fix a delaminated floor from under the van using spray foam. Where its gone off today its rock solid, 1 small area is yet to go off completley but I'm confident 

2 crucial things I learnt
LOTS of heavy weight on top. When the foam expands its powerful.
Wear latex gloves and put lots of paper under the van, this stuff is really really sticky and messy.

All I need to do is clean up underneath and add some extra strength (thanks Maingate) then cost with some bitumin and know one will know its been fixed. Cost about £10 all in and 2 hours work 

Of course the reason I did it this way is because I have a laminate floor in the van and did not want to lift it up. If I could have got to it from the inside I recon squirting foam in from the top would have been quicker and easier.

I'll report back if it fails to last


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## bigboack (Apr 13, 2010)

Done all what you said Mark. Now the tricky bit,How the hell do i get my hands clean, Tried sandpaper,bleach,turps,Engine degreaser,Nothing works. And me hammer is covered in it as well... Two full gas bottles a big trannie on top and a jack on a board underneath, fingers crossed now.
 And before the comments come in a(Trannie) Transformer not AJ dressed in a dress. Although i would have paid him to stand on me floor for 24 hrs wearing a dress. He's certainly heavy enough.


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## biggirafe (Apr 13, 2010)

bigboack said:


> Done all what you said Mark. Now the tricky bit,How the hell do i get my hands clean, Tried sandpaper,bleach,turps,Engine degreaser,Nothing works. And me hammer is covered in it as well... Two full gas bottles a big trannie on top and a jack on a board underneath, fingers crossed now.
> And before the comments come in a(Trannie) Transformer not AJ dressed in a dress. Although i would have paid him to stand on me floor for 24 hrs wearing a dress. He's certainly heavy enough.



Please note previous post you NUMPTY 'Wear latex gloves'  

I'm sat here on my computer with the crap all over my hands and I have a major account meeting in bournemouth tommorow 

I'm wondering what excuse to use. The best I can come up with is 'I fixed me motorhome floor on the weekend and forgot to wear gloves' but it just doesn't sound plausable


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## BobR (Jan 14, 2011)

*Floor Delamination Repair using expandable foam*

Hi

I wondered whether an update is available on the success of using expandable foam. I have the same type of laminate covered floor as Biggirafe and a similar delamination problem.  Thanks




biggirafe said:


> So today we have fixed the floor, from underneath using expandable foam.
> ​Not sure if its 100% success yet but so far so good.
> 
> Here the process I carried out, I'm not saying this is the way to do it nor am I saying that everything I say is 100% correct. If anything is wrong please feel free to put in your 2p worth.
> ...


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## maingate (Jan 14, 2011)

Hi Bob and welcome to the wildies.

biggirafe has sold his van now and reverted to a Caravan. As far as I know, his repair was successful right up to the time he sold his van.

He may have a look on this site now and again, so you might get a report from the horses mouth.


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