# Mercedes 814d or 709d? Thoughts please?



## Niall McOwan

Hi.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I'm am looking at 2 vehicles both converted to race trucks (garage in the rear for my bikes)
One is a 1998 Mercedes 814d with 150k owned for 7 years and well maintained. Seems a genuine owner and a good honest story with the vehicle .
The other is a 709d with 100k and a 1994 vehicle.
Again owned by a genuine seller and with a good history etc.
I am really wondering what the pros and cons are of both and if it was your money what would you buy?
Part prices,mpg,reliability etc

Cheers
Niall


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## mark61

I guess your talking about Vario (vans) models? The same model numbers are also used for Mercs light trucks.

The first number are (usually) approx GVW, (altough either could have been down rated) and the 9 and 14 are BHP, so 90 and 140 BHP.

If both are in similar condition, I'd have the one with more power, lol.


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## jezjay

814d vario anyday !! only cos we`ve got one and love it !!!


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## Niall McOwan

*Any issues to look for with the 814?*

Thanks for the replies..
How long have you had yours jezjay? Any issues I should look for? I do like the idea of the extra space. The 150k miles the norm I guess?


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## jezjay

I take it they both have the 4250 diesel which goes on forever.. heard some have upto 700k to 1000000miles  with no problems !!  .. they have loads of space and our drives perfectly.. very planted on the road and no real body roll issues.. ( ours is 2006 ) so unsure of older models.. 
also ours is a 6 speed and when driven well does between 22 and 25 mpg...

we have underslung water tanks 350ltr fresh and 90 waste.. 

we are off in ours in 5 days time.. touring europe for a year.. mainly beaches and morocco for the winter..


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## sp2 boy

Fancy coming across you here Jez...did you ever fit that hugger?


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## jezjay

Hi Pete.. didn`t know you was a camper !!! haha yep fitted hugger.. very difficult to get bolts in because of wheel.. but hugger fitted perfect.. not on at mo as prefer the open look and bike going into hidden storage as off on trip friday.. hope things are good with you ??


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## rolandrat

The 709 will be bombproof provided it has been routinely maintained. What you need to take a close look at is the area under the windscreen and upper inner wings which can be horrendously rotten with tin worm. There are replacement body panels available but it is a big job as the screen and dash will have to be removed. Other than that they are a brilliant vehicle and will last for many miles. I have no experience of using an 814 so I can't comment.


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## Niall McOwan

*Thanks again folks*

Many thanks for your replies. Really appreciated. Such a great site !!


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## sp2 boy

jezjay said:


> Hi Pete.. didn`t know you was a camper !!! haha yep fitted hugger.. very difficult to get bolts in because of wheel.. but hugger fitted perfect.. not on at mo as prefer the open look and bike going into hidden storage as off on trip friday.. hope things are good with you ??



Yeah I use the LWB LT van to move bikes about in and as a base when I move around the country, just need to connect the cooker, fridge and sink now.  So if that hugger fits okay then it will be fine for me to start producing them for retail then. Yeah I had heard from Simon that you were unsure what to do with your bike as you were heading off but I am glad to hear that you have kept it. Stay safe and have fun whilst away from these shores, have a great time.


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## jamesuk

*814d*

I have been looking at one of these but would sometimes want to park 'on the street'

It seems my local area has a 5 tonne limit on residential streets... Have you had any issues parking a 814 anyone?

I'm very keen on them as their big but maybe too big for round here!


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## mark61

jamesuk said:


> I have been looking at one of these but would sometimes want to park 'on the street'
> 
> It seems my local area has a 5 tonne limit on residential streets... Have you had any issues parking a 814 anyone?
> 
> I'm very keen on them as their big but maybe too big for round here!




Where have you seen the 5 tonne limit, as road side signs? or local borough website?


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## jamesuk

Looked it up on the council website... never ever seen a sign anywhere.

I guess i wanted to know if there was anything they could throw me at me if someone complained....


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## mark61

Only weight restrictions I can find relate to commercials.

In fact some say Motorhomes aren't included in 5 Tonne parking ban.


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## mark61

Blimey, your right, rules and regs are all over the place.

Motorhome Friendly and Unfriendly Parking - (Greater) London


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## jamesuk

The Kingston site says nothing about the class of vehicle. In reality i may get away with the 'odd night' but just want to know where i stand.
Really fancy an 814d though!


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## jamesuk

borrowed from their website:


_
Parking Controls and restrictions
Report a Vehicle
Contact us if you think a member of the public has parked their vehicle in contravention of the parking regulations. Please let us know where the vehicle is located and what type of contravention has been committed. Parking contraventions include vehicles parked on school ‘keep clear’ markings and *vehicles over five tonnes parked on a street or road overnight.* Please call our Customer Contact Centre to request enforcement action: 020 8547 5002
If a vehicle is blocking your driveway, please contact the Police - Kingston Police Station’s number is 020 8541 1212. The Council does not have the facilities to remove vehicles._

Crap!


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## mark61

They haven't qualified what they mean.
5T GVW, 5T unladen. 

No doubt GVW, but I'm sure they need to say.


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## jezjay

Brighton/Hove and surrounding are fine with our LWB 814d parked up..


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## jamesuk

I might call them up. Most of Kingston area is LEZ anyway so thats a no-go but there are bits i could park sometimes...


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## gypsy

*Mercedes 814d rust under screen area*

Hi, I have discovered a a few rust holes under the screen /scuttle area on my 814d camper. I read earlier a member saying that's its a major job to sort. Does anyone have first hand experience of getting it sorted?


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## Byronic

gypsy said:


> Hi, I have discovered a a few rust holes under the screen /scuttle area on my 814d camper. I read earlier a member saying that's its a major job to sort. Does anyone have first hand experience of getting it sorted?



I presume you mean the panel immediately under the windscreen, which is mainly visible after removing the black painted steel apron which collects rainwater?

If it is, then this panel is a well known rot area on the Type 2 van, individual holes can of course be welded up but if extensive a new panel is the only answer, it's a 'U' shape the legs of which can be seen forming the outer windscreen frame, it's spot welded to the subframe and butt welded at the top windscreen corners to the van roof panel.

Replacement is a major task..... well it was for me , windscreen out (easy job only a lo tech rubber moulding), dash top out and dependant on what additional rot you find, probably the heater matrix/hose will require removing. Interior trim surround to windscreen has to be removed with sun blind. Some of the lower spot welding has to be carried out in cramped spaces. The replacement panel was about £270 plus vat. a few years ago. 

The fibre glass decorative mouldings running down both sides of the windscreen can be removed by threading a very thin cord between it and the painted steel frame so as to cut thru the double sided securing tape, there's no mechanical fixing..... wish somebody had told me!!!

Hope this basic info helps?


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## vwalan

hi ron . you cant see the joins when its done either can you. 
very common as you say on vw t2,i replaced a mates on his daf truck the other year .made panels by folding and forming . worked ok. windscreen fitted back easy as well .


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## Byronic

vwalan said:


> hi ron . you cant see the joins when its done either can you.
> very common as you say on vw t2,i replaced a mates on his daf truck the other year .made panels by folding and forming . worked ok. windscreen fitted back easy as well .



Buenos dias Alan, you're probably still in Portugal I imagine, all ok I hope? Have you managed to avoid the heavy rain in north P.? Anyway you picked a good weather year to stick mainly to Spain. 

You're correct of course you can't see the join. Mainly due to the fact that I haven't done it on mine yet!!! 

However I did get good practice doing somebody elses 5 years ago, then last year I stripped mine down, windscreen out etc. didn't look too bad so patch welded as necessary put everything back and then found a rust pinhole halfway up the screen pillar, turned out of course to be a large rust area so should have replaced the whole panel (should have known better). Non structural, so made a temporary 'invisible bodge', as I only had time to make and weld up a rear rack for the motorbike before heading south for the winter.

So if I have the time, and the 4 days of good weather coinciding (fat chance) I have this years self abuse project sorted! Make that 7 days.


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## vwalan

in north portugal at furundouro big seas roads flooded on sea front .local tv here. raining for last 4 days . but ok. 
as you said very often if a panels available for right money fit it . 
didnt think it was yours as you had told me you fitted a friends a few years ago. yours would like nice with a good clean and polish .ha ha .
but for other person .get it done right its not a difficult job really .


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## Byronic

You're correct Alan, it's not difficult.....especially if you get someone else to do it lol!

I can assure you even if it's not rocket science, it's bloody tedious, get a quote from a body shop, the labour charge is enough in some cases to make it the more sensible choice to send the van to the crusher. 

Bay of Biscay will be like a mill pond by the time you get on that ferry......probably.


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## gypsy

Thanks Ron, 

Your comment is much appreciated. I'd been searching the internet for a while to get further info but found nothing.

what you've said does improve my understanding. I started investigating the area and found two rust holes, the largest i can get four fingers through at once. 

I first thought maybe I could mig weld patches to it myself but decided it was beyond my abilities as I'd not be able to get my grinder into the area to clean up the metal.

Maybe I can find a professional welder who's able patch up the holes and hope that's possible without removing the dash.

I'll also be going to mercedes to see what the u shaped panel looks like in detail.


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## Byronic

Hi Gypsy, If you've only have a couple of holes it may be viable to patch weld, it doesn't have to be cosmetically perfect, not ever going to be seen once finished. I found a mini angle grinder to be more use than standard in confined spaces. Just a thought but perhaps approximately shaped steel patches bedded in sealant and pop rivetted into place could do the trick? 

If not already done, the one essential thing to carry out while working in the cab area is to drop the headlining and insulate the roof. Glued closed cell camping mats do the job, without the insulation condensation builds up and eventually runs down to the windscreen top frame member (particuarly  under braking) and drains down both windscreen pillars, rotting out the 'U' legs which are of thin gauge and additionly have hardly any rustproofing, and what there is mostly gets burnt off during welding, even the welding resistant paint. Get plenty of Waxoyl down those pillars even if you're not replacing the panel.

The condensation also tends to drip on the headlining causing water staining, surprising how many van converters forget about insulating this area.

Anyway whatever needs doing or whatever you decide on doing, best of luck, I've already wished myself the same!!


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## gypsy

Thanks again Ron, will be checking the cab area headlining. Any recommendation as to which glue is suitable for that camping mat closed cell stuff. 

Will also investigate using a very small angle grinder (I hadn't thought of that either)

Regards screen removal and refitting, is there anything I need to know. It's been a long time since I last fitted a windscreen and that was on a Datsun Cherry (so a lot smaller than the huge screen on the van). It's been such a long time since I did that, all I recall is using a string to either remove or to refit the screen.


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## Byronic

Hi Gypsy. Due to the double curvature of the roof in the cab area I find aerosol spray contact adhesive to be the best choice, instant adhesion is what you're after, so that the insulation does't spring away and leave air pockets. There are a couple of roof reinforcement top hat sections try and get the insulation into them. 

The screen comes out quite easily, no sealant adhesives or the like. But the screen is heavy (perhaps 60kg) and quite high up of course. Recommend 2 people.

Start by gently peeling back a top corner of the moulding inside the cab at the same time as firmly pushing the glass out and working round until it frees up. The difficult bit is peeling  back enough moulding so as to feel the screen actually start to move. I used a short length of plastic strip combined with tucked-in string cord. I think I managed once without the string but not sure.

When replacing don't forget to dust the rubber with talcum powder or glycerine, I have used back to black, the clear silicone aerosol used on car plastics etc. worked well for me but you have to make sure the screen is perfectly cleaned up after use. The crossed over string/cord proceedure you are obviousy familiar with. I crossed over at top centre of moulding. When I tried bottom centre, the screen tended to slide out due to it's uprightness and weight crushing the moulding.

Hope this helps, over to you now....he who dares!!!


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## gypsy

Just returned from Northern Portugal and found my 814d struggled climbing the hills, Engine also seemed to overheat.

Whilst in Portugal I removed the thermostat and that slightly improved things.

Never had the overheat problem in the UK, so I suspect it may be difficult for me to check if it's resolved until I reach a hotter climate.

Think maybe the cooling fan clutch may be faulty or bunged radiator.

Also noticed a small air leak in a inter-cooler pipe that may have been causing the hill climb difficulties but not sure as leak is very small.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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