# Campaigning for more British aires



## caspar (Nov 8, 2012)

I've opened this to try to divert attention from the thread about Radar Keys. As the poster mentioned below has stated her intent to move the discussion onto this,I've opened it as a new thread for her:

mariesnowgoose

Well, I have been trying to introduce a different, but very closely related avenue about the lack of aires.

Guess nobody's that interested in toilet facilities for motorhomers then? lol


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## Hobbsy (Nov 9, 2012)

Yup, more aires over here we need! Who's gunna start the campaign?


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## Tbear (Nov 9, 2012)

I tried to get Peterborough council to provide one but after months of working on them I met a blank wall called Parking. They where never going to change their attitude. I can understand why after listening to some of the stories about the Travellers and their antics. Several others on here have tried in their own areas and helped me with my campaign but unless we get all the Motorhome sites to unite in a major high profile campaign we have no chance.

You may get the odd place to provide a grubby carpark for £15.00 a night so they can ban you from the rest of the town. They will then say that when they provide an Aire we do not use it and carry on abusing the system.

Sorry to sound so negative but a few weeks of taking on a council does that to you

Richard


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## dave and mary (Nov 9, 2012)

Sorry but i am going to be negative as well, if you saw the program on tv the other night about British roads one of the main causes of accidents is tired ness, Yet in this country you can not stay in a service area to slee for more than 2 houres unless you pay a great deal of money, untill this rip of Briton attitude changes we will never get Aries, let alone free ones as in Europe.:drive:  :drive:


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## Firefox (Nov 9, 2012)

There's a few things working against us here:

1. There's a small number of motorhomes in the UK - about 100,000. So we have a small voice compared to say car owners. 

2. Most of the van owners tend to be fairly well off couples who are quite happy to pay for existing sites of which we already have a large network. Eg 5 van sites. Provision of aires may effect their local business.

3. Some traveller groups (not all!) have created bad reputations leaving councils with rubbish to clear up.

4. We're facing cuts to essential public services so money to spend on leisure services is tight.

It's not meant to be all doom and gloom but in formulating a strategy you have to put yourselves in the position of council officials who will be busy weighing up the above.


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## dave and mary (Nov 9, 2012)

I agree with most of what you said, but an a lot of us are on a fixed income and just can not afford some of price the sites are charging. The 5 van sites are great but there costs are going up so it meanes there prices go up years ago a 5 van site was about £1.50 now a lot are £10 -£15 a night just to park. We went to wales a few week ago ,stooped in the car park at Ross on why but no over night parking then saw a sign for a camp site, so of we went looked a lovely site but the cost £23 a night just to park no way. So its over the Chanel where we are welcome ( well in most places )   :drive:


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 9, 2012)

Also remember that the issue of aires isn't simply about personal incomes and not being able to afford official motor home campsites.

It's about choice:

Independence: you don't want to stay on a campsite because you like the freedom of being able to roam and stay in the countryside with just yourself for company.
Service stop: en route to a destination you need to be able to keep the facilities of your motor home working efficiently without using a full-blown campsite.

Has anybody considered how much business the UK might attract from foreign motor home visitors if we were more campervan friendly?
The generation of tourism income from both indigenous and foreign campers is possibly the only subject that might entice councils to provide more aire facilities.

It would need a good business plan, naturally, but it shouldn't be impossible and would need to be at the heart of any campaign, local or national.

The generation of money might be the key thing (usually the only thing!) that would elicit a positive response.

I haven't seen Bigpeetee on here for while. It would be very interesting to find out how he got on with his local campaign.


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## John H (Nov 9, 2012)

dave and mary said:


> I agree with most of what you said, but an a lot of us are on a fixed income and just can not afford some of price the sites are charging. The 5 van sites are great but there costs are going up so it meanes there prices go up years ago a 5 van site was about £1.50 now a lot are £10 -£15 a night just to park. We went to wales a few week ago ,stooped in the car park at Ross on why but no over night parking then saw a sign for a camp site, so of we went looked a lovely site but the cost £23 a night just to park no way. So its over the Chanel where we are welcome ( well in most places )   :drive:



I agree. For the price of two nights on a campsite I can take my motorhome where it is welcome! But there is an alternative within the UK - Scotland! 

I think, from what has been posted so far, that most of us take the same jaundiced attitude to the prospect of England ever having aires but if anybody does have the time and energy to campaign for them, may I offer the following suggestion? Firefox is absolutely right that we are a very small voice but anybody who has been across the Channel will know that there is enormous potential for attracting French, German, Dutch and Belgian vans in particular. Therefore it might be best to concentrate on those local authorities closest to fery ports, explaining how extra income for virtually no outlay is not to be sneezed at. I say virtually no outlay because at first I am sure we would be happy with either just an overnight parking space or that plus a water tap and drain. Electricity and showers can come later!

But in the end it all comes down to attitude and the attitude of most senior officers in local authorities is that they want an easy life. having to deal with motorhomers adds to their discomfort and they come up with excuses they know will make all their voting councillors run a mile - "gypsies". The reality is that it is easy to limit stays and limit the range of uses for an aire (see France, Spain, Portugal etc etc) but that would entail a bit of work!

Sorry to be so negative but every time I cross the Channel it is brought home to me how stupid our local authorities are (I'm in Spain at present - warmer than Scotland in winter!).


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## oldish hippy (Nov 9, 2012)

I have said in previous post about stopping as the highway code states do not not drive if tired .So if you do get told to move on then do so if you want to or just say that you are tired and need a rest before contiuning on with journey. I am sure that the police would back you on this but aires would be nice but there will always be the nimby s {not in my back yard } and think it would take a lot to get through the planning permissions as nimby s  who dont want it can object and then the councils would say about the costs involved in these austere times .and the thought of them being taken over by travellers would surely put some councils off as then more expense to remove them ,dont know how they get round it abroad would be nice to here from a french arrondissement on  how they manage  to set them up and expenditure .


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 9, 2012)

I think maingate might be secretly working on softening up one of the authorities up here in the North East 

As he said, softly softly catchee monkey and from little acorns oak trees grow.

To possibly get one aire established in an area first by working with someone on the ground who is keen/sympathetic, then use it as a working example to encourage more councils to consider providing similar  resources?

It's the long haul, folks, but Rome wasn't built in a day either


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## Smaug (Nov 9, 2012)

Some towns & cities offer "Park & Ride" facilities. 

Might these be a good starting point? All we would want is a small area with bigger parking lines. Some already have loos on site and as they are usually on the outskirts of the town there should be less "Nimby" reaction. 

Perhaps we could start by simply asking for a few bigger parking slots so that MH & van owners don't need to drive into town to shop/ sight see or use theatres & restaurants. Hardly a major cost & has the clear outcome of increased trade for local businesses plus "no big vans blocking the traffic" (as they might see it).

Just a thought, any comments? 

I did consider Chester as a test, but they already allow MH's on the Roodee carpark within a short walk of the town centre. Any suggestions of another one to try?


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## snowbirds (Nov 9, 2012)

*Aires in the uk*

Hi all,

We have a long way to go in the UK to change the thinking of local towns and city's leaders.I find it like a breath of fresh air when you cross the channel and you are welcomed by the locals of shops in the towns and villages were we buy their goods and services.I think if we could get one or two of the Supermarkets on board to put in a service area Aires they will pull in the European Motorhome's and other outlets will have to copy suit.The Motorhome magazines could help with some coverage to push the idea.Even in September and October this year the shops abroad are doing good business with a bigger choice of independent shops in the high streets, some thing we have lost in this country.You can have anything from four to ten spaces, that's all that's needed with a custom built disposal unit backing on to a toilet block, that can be expanded with very little out lay for the return, and you know it works in Europe.You will also get less vandalisam there.

Regards Snowbirds.


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 9, 2012)

The supermarket idea sounds good.

Does anyone know if the national supermarket brands already provide something like this overseas?

I know Walmart (Asda) is international, but don't if any UK-based supermarkets operate abroad.


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## John H (Nov 9, 2012)

mariesnowgoose said:


> The supermarket idea sounds good.
> 
> Does anyone know if the national supermarket brands already provide something like this overseas?
> 
> I know Walmart (Asda) is international, but don't if any UK-based supermarkets operate abroad.



Several supermarkets in France have aires (quite often provided by an organisation called "Trailer Parks"). Super-U and Le Clerc are two that have a lot of aires but I think it must be ultimately up to the local manager because some Super-U and Le Clerc stores actively discourage overnighting. There are others that never seem to have aires - for example, I have never seen one in a Carrefour store.


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## antiquesam (Nov 9, 2012)

Smaug said:


> Some towns & cities offer "Park & Ride" facilities.
> 
> Might these be a good starting point? All we would want is a small area with bigger parking lines. Some already have loos on site and as they are usually on the outskirts of the town there should be less "Nimby" reaction.
> 
> ...


It's a good idea but it is already happening. Canterbury and Exeter already allow overnighting in there P&R, and Hereford and Chester have parking in a car park. We should work from there.


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## dave and mary (Nov 9, 2012)

We were in chester few weeks ago and used the Roodee car park in the day , but  you can not over night there


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## antiquesam (Nov 9, 2012)

Unless things have changed since we passed through in August, it is a well known overnighting spot.


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## Kontiki (Nov 9, 2012)

Stayed there a couple of weeks ago, £1.50 here's the site showing the parking sign Chester Tourist - The Little Roodee as far as I know nothing has changed. What makes you think you can't overnight there??
I am originally from Chester & now live about 12 miles away at Wrexham. We regularly see motorhomes parked  there.


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## Deleted member 19733 (Nov 9, 2012)

It seems to us, from comparing our European travels with the UK, that in Europe, particularly in France the Office of Tousrism have quite an input into persuading local authorities to provide facilities for motorhomes (camping cars) as well as moorings on navigable waterways. At the latter there are often at least parking for motorhomers, but sometimes more ie water, electricity and disposal of grey, black water and rubbish.

We stayed in a Super U supermarket for just shopping and the use of their service point. There were 18 motorhomes parked in a designated area in the corner of the car park and we noticed a contsant stream of shopping laden supermarket trolleys being wheeled to the vans.

Back in the UK, if one is desperate, one could use existing C&CC/CC sites for service only and not overnight stay. The Chertsey club site (Surrey) charges £6.50 for an all-in service visit, this being the most expensive we found. 

On our last trip to Scotland, we visited St Bees holiday/touring park on the sea front, super site, but all we wanted was a top up with water. We asked at reception and we offered to pay, but the receptionist simply asked us to drive to any vacant touring spot and fill up for free (all touring spots had water and electricity).

On another occasion, being in the middle of nowhere, we pulled in a CL, asked for a top up of water and were charged £2. bargain. 

There is so much positive information on this forum, hope someone who may be able to help with persuading the powers to be to provide facilities for motorhomers, is inspired from this forum.

:cheers:


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## Smaug (Nov 9, 2012)

antiquesam said:


> It's a good idea but it is already happening. Canterbury and Exeter already allow overnighting in there P&R, and Hereford and Chester have parking in a car park. We should work from there.



Excellent, next step is to identify spokesmen from those places to write a letter/ email to say how well it has worked for them & that they have had few or no problems. Maybe we could draft a letter for someone to approve & sign. Possibly a Tourism Official? 

That letter could then be used as the basis for an approach to other towns, preferably by rate paying (& voting!) residents or businesses in those towns?

Anyone got any contacts?


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## Tbear (Nov 9, 2012)

When I was looking for sites in Peterborough I approached Sainsburys. Some supermarkets do not own their car parks and the ones that do sometimes have private firms policing them. The ones that own and run their own, its up to the local manager.

Richard


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## Stanski (Nov 9, 2012)

*Why not buy ourselves some land and start Aires(UK)*

As stated before "From small acorns ..."  May I suggest an idea.  

Could we (as an organisation) buy a bit of land and establish an Aire (or 2).  There must be small plots of land available that would provide adequate opportunity.  What regs are required I can only guess - hope other members can advise on these complex issues.

Perhaps being proactive in this manner may reap rewards.


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## wildcamp (Nov 9, 2012)

CoolCamper has some land, I bumped the thread.


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## wildcamp (Nov 9, 2012)

Maybe we could persuade one or other of the clubs to have an UK Aire category.

It would have to be defined as to what a UK Aire is and what it should consist of as a minimum (and maximum) and the T&Cs etc. 

Once it is well defined and started on private land,  maybe we can persuade councils to donate public land to open more.


Just my 2 pennies worth.


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## Cashew (Nov 9, 2012)

Stanski said:


> As stated before "From small acorns ..."  May I suggest an idea.
> 
> Could we (as an organisation) buy a bit of land and establish an Aire (or 2).  There must be small plots of land available that would provide adequate opportunity.  What regs are required I can only guess - hope other members can advise on these complex issues.
> 
> Perhaps being proactive in this manner may reap rewards.



 Of course you would have to arrange/employ for someone to take care of the rubbish left behind, the sites being used as romantic meeting points for members of crufts and employ someone to stop the 'international society of pik*ys and metal removers' moving in en masse.
All this after the insurmountable task of 'wild campers' buying a bit of land.... remember the near revolution when the membership fee to this august body was raised from £15 to £20 (was worse than the poll tax riots)

Still your intentions are honourable


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## dave and mary (Nov 9, 2012)

antiquesam said:


> Unless things have changed since we passed through in August, it is a well known overnighting spot.



well it said gates locked at 8pm if we got it wrong it cost us an extra £10 for a site near chester and cost chester another day with us there spending  money  :drive:


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## maingate (Nov 9, 2012)

Cashew said:


> Of course you would have to arrange/employ for someone to take care of the rubbish left behind, the sites being used as romantic meeting points for members of crufts and employ someone to stop the 'international society of pik*ys and metal removers' moving in en masse.
> All this after the insurmountable task of 'wild campers' buying a bit of land.... remember the near revolution when the membership fee to this august body was raised from £15 to £20 (was worse than the poll tax riots)
> 
> Still your intentions are honourable



At least he had intentions.

It is because I have seen these threads before that I am not taking any active part in it. Can I respectfully add that if you have nothing positive to add then please keep your suppositions to yourself.


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## and123wills (Nov 10, 2012)

Sorry to go off subject, just a message for casper.

I just realised I cant send or receive PM messages as my subscription has run out be in touch soon sorry.


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## Cashew (Nov 10, 2012)

maingate said:


> At least he had intentions.
> 
> It is because I have seen these threads before that I am not taking any active part in it. Can I respectfully add that if you have nothing positive to add then please keep your suppositions to yourself.



What I added was in my opinion a positive comment on the problems of this group running aires, done in a jokey way, hence the smileys.
You have obviously got a bee in your bonnet about something, so may I respectfully suggest you don't turn this thread into another 'radar key' debacle.


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## mrbadger (Nov 10, 2012)

*Aires in UK...  Motorhomes are Good for Business!!*

A few thoughts...

Canterbury.... I wrote to the council there asking about MH parking. I got a very good reply. They have a park'n'ride on the outskirts with a dedicated area for MH's! It costs about £4 but that includes bus fares into town. It has lighting and security cams. The entry barriers come down at about 6 oclock, but you can leave anytime. Very handy for the Chunnel!

Birmingham.... Again I wrote to the council, and they sent me a phone number to ring which would put me in the V.I.P. area of a city centre car park!!!! Free!! Cant say fairer than that!!

Lichfield.... Wrote to the council, no actual provision for MH's, but sent me addresses of car parks and assured me there were no height barriers, no anti MH policy and we were most welcome!

Apart from Council parking, how about Supermarkets? Many open 24/7, have large carparks which are empty all night, toilets and cafe's etc.... If we ask nicely and point out the fact that we may well Shop, Eat and Fill Up before we leave in the morning they may be favourable. I have done it a few times with no bother.

Pubs... again, point out that they have customers who could enjoy a drink, a meal, and even breakfast before they move on... All good business.. The Travellers on the A55 (North Wales Expressway) is ideal! But we have used others, no problem.

We always ask politely, always stress that we will be gone in the morning and will NEVER leave a mess, and we will be spending time and money in their business. Never had a refusal or a problem.

Happy Parking!!


The more we spread the word that MHers are good for business, the more likely it will be that others, even jobsworth Councils, will get the message!


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## sss (Nov 10, 2012)

I have just added another separate post about Bath Park and Ride. I also agree that these will be a slowly catchy monkey approach is needed. It takes a while to change the views of the local authorities.

We do need to convince them that aires are part of a bigger picture of CL's, campsites and holiday parks. They also need to understand that a lot of tourist money is going abroad because of the lack of motorhome understanding. 

One thing I have discovered is email councils via the elected Councillors rather than parking departments. The response gets passed on, but elected Councillors are in a very good position to make changes but may also use the opportunity to get re-elected.

But it does also need a volume of response from motorhomers here and from abroad.

Here is the link for the head honcho of Bath and I think as they are redoing their park and ride it would be an ideal time to get them on board. 

Leader of the Council | Bathnes


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## Smaug (Nov 10, 2012)

dave and mary said:


> well it said gates locked at 8pm if we got it wrong it cost us an extra £10 for a site near chester and cost chester another day with us there spending  money  :drive:



Not having a go, just genuinely puzzled as to why "gates locked at 8pm" is a problem rather than a benefit.

Many campsites lock up at 10.30 or 11pm to avoid late night disturbance & I see that as a good thing. Most of Chester's attractions are within the town walls or along the river bank so easily within reach of an unfit walker or even a powered wheelchair. I don't see the need for the van to leave the Roodee once parked up for the day (or two). 

If you can't get to the Roodee by 8pm, there are wild camping places at Burton Marsh (Denhall Lane https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl ) & you might even be able to sneak into the RSPB car park near there, but I don't know if that gets locked after dark.

Sorry I don't know how to get a grid ref off google maps, I hope the link works, but a search for Denhall Lane will do it.


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## maingate (Nov 10, 2012)

mrbadger said:


> A few thoughts...
> 
> Canterbury.... I wrote to the council there asking about MH parking. I got a very good reply. They have a park'n'ride on the outskirts with a dedicated area for MH's! It costs about £4 but that includes bus fares into town. It has lighting and security cams. The entry barriers come down at about 6 oclock, but you can leave anytime. Very handy for the Chunnel!
> 
> ...



Well done. It just goes to prove that a little bit of action is worth a thousand threads on forums.


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## Kontiki (Nov 10, 2012)

dave and mary said:


> well it said gates locked at 8pm if we got it wrong it cost us an extra £10 for a site near chester and cost chester another day with us there spending  money  :drive:



As long as you are inside the gates I don't see what the problem is, keeps anybody from driving in disturbing your sleep. The gates are opened in the morning & unless you need to get out in an emergency (I think there is a phone number & charge for that).

You could have saved the tenner & parked on my drive we are only about 12 miles from Chester.


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 10, 2012)

Just to let you know, this thread does not belong to me.

I will post here only if I have something constructive or useful to add on the subject of aires.

OK. Apologies for interrupting. Carry on folks.


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## maingate (Nov 10, 2012)

I have been active today trying to get a regular overnight spot sorted north of the Border. I am awaiting a response from my email.

The only problem is that I am totally pissed off with some members on here and wonder why the hell I bother. Maybe it's time I just took a step back and visit other forums instead.


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 11, 2012)

You alright, Jim?

Hope I haven't said anything to rattle you?


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## jamesmarshall (Nov 11, 2012)

maingate said:


> I have been active today trying to get a regular overnight spot sorted north of the Border. I am awaiting a response from my email.
> 
> The only problem is that I am totally pissed off with some members on here and wonder why the hell I bother. Maybe it's time I just took a step back and visit other forums instead.



There is an element of insanity on this site but it is far outweighed by the positivity of others.
You know you love it


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## Tbear (Nov 11, 2012)

maingate said:


> I have been active today trying to get a regular overnight spot sorted north of the Border. I am awaiting a response from my email.
> 
> The only problem is that I am totally pissed off with some members on here and wonder why the hell I bother. Maybe it's time I just took a step back and visit other forums instead.



Hi Maingate,

I have a great deal of respect for your Mechanical Knowledge and regard you as a valuable member of this site but may I suggest that you save your Bile for the Deviants, Junkies and Irresponsible travellers that have frustrated all my attempts at getting services for us in my area and don't forget the Jobsworth in Parking.

Richard


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 11, 2012)

Hi Tbear,

Having been on the site a little while now, I'm beginning to understand how it might be easy to get a little frustrated with it occasionally.

A lot of members are trying to do constructive things for campervanners in the real world outside of this forum. More power to their elbows!

Jim will be back. He's a site junkie just like the rest of us sad bughas.

 :lol-053:


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## Tbear (Nov 11, 2012)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Hi Tbear,
> 
> Having been on the site a little while now, I'm beginning to understand how it might be easy to get a little frustrated with it occasionally.
> 
> ...



Ouch!!!

And they say the truth does not hurt

Richard


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## John H (Nov 11, 2012)

I'm not a junkie! I could give it up any time I felt like it - just ask my therapist. :scared::lol-053:


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## Hobbsy (Nov 11, 2012)

John H said:


> I agree. For the price of two nights on a campsite I can take my motorhome where it is welcome! But there is an alternative within the UK - Scotland!
> 
> I think, from what has been posted so far, that most of us take the same jaundiced attitude to the prospect of England ever having aires but if anybody does have the time and energy to campaign for them, may I offer the following suggestion? Firefox is absolutely right that we are a very small voice but anybody who has been across the Channel will know that there is enormous potential for attracting French, German, Dutch and Belgian vans in particular. Therefore it might be best to concentrate on those local authorities closest to fery ports, explaining how extra income for virtually no outlay is not to be sneezed at. I say virtually no outlay because at first I am sure we would be happy with either just an overnight parking space or that plus a water tap and drain. Electricity and showers can come later!
> 
> ...



Concentrate on the L A closest to the ferry crossings! That's the way forward John... 
I recon John should run the campaign!
That's a no brainer


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## John H (Nov 11, 2012)

Hobbsy said:


> Concentrate on the L A closest to the ferry crossings! That's the way forward John...
> I recon John should run the campaign!
> That's a no brainer



Sorry, my campaigning days are over - I now prefer to sit in the sun and moan! :lol-053:


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 11, 2012)

John H said:


> Sorry, my campaigning days are over - I now prefer to sit in the sun and moan! :lol-053:



Me too  Except it's cold (but sunny!) where I am


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## Tbear (Nov 11, 2012)

John H said:


> Sorry, my campaigning days are over - I now prefer to sit in the sun and moan! :lol-053:



Its a shame John. You might be the one to convince a council that if the Gypsies camped on their Beauty Spot, turning it into an eyesore. Claiming that they have nowhere to go. Had a place to go but had to pay a small fee for. The courts might be easy to convince to shift them. No need to break up the family and course the children hardship and they would be paying to clear up their mess. Of which there may be much less as sewers and bins would be provided. 

It may never make a profit but it sure as hell would cut the huge losses coursed by having to clear up some pretty nasty mess and the fortify an area with ditches, earth walls, huge rocks and oil drums filled with concrete. None of which totally works. Ask them to pay to park and then just maybe. Not so attractive to freeloaders but could be good for us.

Richard


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 11, 2012)

I think a reasonable charge to use facilities is sensible.

Owt for nowt is often abused and taken for granted. 

Getting decent services takes money to set up and manage and it sounds like many overseas aires charge a fee, or am I mis-informed on that?
I would happily pay a few quid to be able to empty toilet cassette safely, fill up with water and maybe have access to a decent shower facility.

We have quite a few settled gypsy sites in the North East.
Most appear to be well looked after and are sited well away from NIMBY folk.
Still being victimised, rightly or wrongly, and councils aren't doing enough to help the situation.


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## John H (Nov 11, 2012)

mariesnowgoose said:


> I think a reasonable charge to use facilities is sensible.
> 
> Owt for nowt is often abused and taken for granted.
> 
> ...



I think the key word here is "reasonable". Most French (and Spanish and Portuguese etc) aires are free but those that charge tend to charge up to 10 euros (£8) for a parking place plus services (maybe a litle more if it is a tourist hot-spot and/or if they are providing electricity/showers etc). On the other hand, when local authorities in the UK consider setting aside land for us it is usually a minimum charge of £10 for just a bit of tarmac and no facilities. I know there are honourable exceptions to this (Hawick, for example) but the problem is that most local authorities are approaching it from the wrong direction. They look upon it as solving a "problem" for the local area instead of looking at it as a business opportunity for the local area. Aside from electing more French-born councillors in this country I can't see attitudes changing very soon!


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## Tbear (Nov 11, 2012)

mariesnowgoose said:


> I think a reasonable charge to use facilities is sensible.
> 
> Owt for nowt is often abused and taken for granted.
> 
> ...



Have a good look round your local area. I bet it will not take you long to find an area of hard standing. Spray the weeds, a standpipe, paint some white lines, swap a sewer lid to a grid or give it a hinge and handle. Sound like a job for people on community service? What cost? The problem is collecting the money but the rest of Europe gets round it so there must be a way. Unfortunatly my French falls far short of grilling there councillors

Richard


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 11, 2012)

John H said:


> I think the key word here is "reasonable". Most French (and Spanish and Portuguese etc) aires are free but those that charge tend to charge up to 10 euros (£8) for a parking place plus services (maybe a litle more if it is a tourist hot-spot and/or if they are providing electricity/showers etc). On the other hand, when local authorities in the UK consider setting aside land for us it is usually a minimum charge of £10 for just a bit of tarmac and no facilities. I know there are honourable exceptions to this (Hawick, for example) but the problem is that most local authorities are approaching it from the wrong direction. They look upon it as solving a "problem" for the local area instead of looking at it as a business opportunity for the local area. Aside from electing more French-born councillors in this country I can't see attitudes changing very soon!



It's just not high enough on the agenda.

I haven't really got the time to get involved in campaigning to raise awareness of the problem, but that's what it needs.

Softly softly works, and individuals out there are doing there best. To get a sea change across the board is going to take a long time, but it's not impossible.

Maybe when I retire... :lol-053:


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## John H (Nov 11, 2012)

Tbear said:


> Have a good look round your local area. I bet it will not take you long to find an area of hard standing. Spray the weeds, a standpipe, paint some white lines, swap a sewer lid to a grid or give it a hinge and handle. Sound like a job for people on community service? What cost? The problem is collecting the money but the rest of Europe gets round it so there must be a way. Unfortunatly my French falls far short of grilling there councillors
> 
> Richard



There is, as you say, no physical problem - nor indeed a legal one. The problem is attitude. If anyone can come up with a way to make local council officers think "French" then we may be on the way to solving the problem - but short of sending them all baguettes and brie I can't see that happening!


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## John H (Nov 11, 2012)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Maybe when I retire... :lol-053:



I said that.........then I retired! :hammer:


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## Tbear (Nov 11, 2012)

John H said:


> There is, as you say, no physical problem - nor indeed a legal one. The problem is attitude. If anyone can come up with a way to make local council officers think "French" then we may be on the way to solving the problem - but short of sending them all baguettes and brie I can't see that happening!



Perhaps if we get Vicki Michelle to lead our campaign:lol-053:


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## John H (Nov 11, 2012)

Tbear said:


> Perhaps if we get Vicki Michelle to lead our campaign:lol-053:



'Allo 'Allo - you might have hit on something there! :lol-053:


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## Tbear (Nov 11, 2012)

fftopic: Sorry but did we ever get to see The Fallen Madonna with the Big Boobies


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## Tbear (Nov 11, 2012)

Just had a leaflet through the door asking for my support for a candidate for Police Commissioner. If we all email our potential commissioners and ask them what their attitude to the provision of legal parking with reasonable facilities (hard standing, water ,sewage) for motorhomes is???. Who knows? I will publish if I get a reply.

Richard


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## John H (Nov 11, 2012)

Tbear said:


> Just had a leaflet through the door asking for my support for a candidate for Police Commissioner. If we all email our potential commissioners and ask them what their attitude to the provision of legal parking with reasonable facilities (hard standing, water ,sewage) for motorhomes is???. Who knows? I will publish if I get a reply.
> 
> Richard



Can't do any harm - and while you're at it, ask them if they know the whereabouts of the Madonna with the big boobies! :lol-053:


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## jamesmarshall (Nov 11, 2012)

John H said:


> I'm not a junkie! I could give it up any time I felt like it - just ask my therapist. :scared::lol-053:



I'm not a junkie either. I've given up lots of times


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## Tbear (Nov 11, 2012)

John H said:


> Can't do any harm - and while you're at it, ask them if they know the whereabouts of the Madonna with the big boobies! :lol-053:



I think the might tell me where to put my Knackvurst sausages


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## maingate (Nov 11, 2012)

Well, well, well. Why am I not surprised that this thread has faded rapidly. In fact it faded into a bit of banter and even double entendre.

Sums most of you up nicely.


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## John H (Nov 11, 2012)

maingate said:


> Well, well, well. Why am I not surprised that this thread has faded rapidly. In fact it faded into a bit of banter and even double entendre.
> 
> Sums most of you up nicely.



Are you ok?


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## maingate (Nov 13, 2012)

Just a bump for this thread, even though for all the moaning about nowhere to stop over, nobody seems to want to do anything.

Oh yes, I nearly forgot .......

I sent an email to a harbour trust that manages a Marina in Scotland with the idea that they could get some income from Motorhomes overnighting. I got a reply to say that the matter would be brought up at their next meeting later this month. I told them about a similar idea that works well at Cruden Bay (Port Errol) and how it brings in revenue for the upkeep of the harbour. As this is a marina, as opposed to a purely fishing harbour, there will be restrictions as it is a popular tourist spot in Summer and there are campsites nearby. It should be feasible off season but too busy in summer. Looking on the bright side, there are a number of similar marinas in that area and the idea might catch on.

Anybody else fancy doing something similar?


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## iceman1956 (Nov 13, 2012)

*Just another overnight stopping area*

I have bee working in Ffestiniog this week and stayed over at the Elen's Castle Hotel Hotel Snowdonia | Betws-y-Coed, North Wales. Whilst talking to the owners they have said they have Electric Hookup for one van on the car park. They do make a small charge but are a friendly couple and the food is fantastic.


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 13, 2012)

Just spent the day with two old customers of ours.
They are farmers in north Northumberland and have a little row of self-catering cottages on their land.

I mentioned the idea of a CL or CS as a possible way of earning some extra money, or even just an aire.
They are both retired and didn't fancy the idea - BUT! - we have been invited to go and stay on their land in our camper any time we want.
Guess what? They own 500 acres of shoreline overlooking Holy Island and Cleopatra's Needles!   
Part of their land is a nature reserve. Good result - for us anyway. 

Anyway, It got me thinking. We have several customers with lots of land in the North East.
Good working relationships with all of them.
Hmm. A bit of soft soap in the right ears and I think there might be one or two who could be open to the idea of an aire...  :idea:

Think I'll follow your example, Jim.

Sometimes the obvious is staring you in the face...


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## Tbear (Nov 14, 2012)

Got an email back from our prospective Police commissioner offering a conversation if he gets elected. Not much but a possible start.


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## dave and mary (Nov 14, 2012)

Since this thread started i must say how pleased i am with the response on the hole. So many positive sugestions. You will always get the few stupid rep lyes on any site like this, but on the hole so many positive ones. I have archly talked to a couple of our local councilors and they Had never heard of on ardis, but in there eyes they could see no problem of us using the town car parks at night. If we all continue to talk to people about this subject may be something will get done,  it could be a helping hand to traders in the towns who are strugaling to make a living, we have got to make england a more welcoming place for our European motor homers.   :drive:


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## Robmac (Nov 14, 2012)

maingate said:


> Just a bump for this thread, even though for all the moaning about nowhere to stop over, nobody seems to want to do anything.
> 
> Oh yes, I nearly forgot .......
> 
> ...



Marina's are ideal places for visiting motorhomes Jim. They usually have toilets, showers, chemical disposal for visiting boats, along with ample parking space, not to mention the fact that they are usually pretty nice places to stay. I have approached one of my local marinas in Cambridgeshire, but as yet they have not made a decision. There are quite a few marinas near me so I will approach them all over the next few weeks.


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## John H (Nov 14, 2012)

Lots of marinas in France and Spain have associated aires, so this is certainly a good way to go.


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## wildcamp (Nov 14, 2012)

The Marina idea is genius.

I'm no good at organizing or campaigning but if I may throw my bun:  please don't flame me ;-)

If a list could be drawn up of participating marinas together with some marketing info, I'm thinking of a leaflet type thing that could be downloaded and then presented to potential marinas.  It may help to persuade new marinas to join the list if examples can be shown and a case be made that it would attract additional money into their area.

There would have to be a single point of contact (phone number or email or website) for the Marinas to use and to advertise the list.  ???

Just thinking out loud really.


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## maingate (Nov 14, 2012)

If you are looking at Marinas or Harbours the main thing is the word TRUST.

This means that the place is run by a voluntary group and the chances are that they will be looking for income streams to keep the place afloat (yes I know, a terrible pun). Anything run by a Company or local Council will probably be less fruitful for us. Still worth a try thougth.

It might be worthwhile contacting areas around Canals as well as I believe there are a number of voluntary groups dedicated to their upkeep.


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## Stanski (Nov 14, 2012)

*Aires - Does the UK want them, Do we need them?*

The suggestions offered of approaching Marinas, Canal Associations, Supermarkets in addition to Local Council for use of car parks seem to me very sensible - so why, or what, has not allowed this to happen earlier?

My impression, taken from different reading on other sites and this, is historically Motorhoming in the UK has had an indifferent upbringing and not been allowed to flourish as in Europe because of being a smaller community compared to caravanners, and regulations that inhibit/restrict land use for such purpose that we are seeking as local authorities have the responsibility for allowing such.

It also appears that a few good people on different sites have been pro-active with a differing range of success.  I wonder if these lone voices have had to use their own personal networking to help them get the results they have.

Looking at this from a different perspective could we first ask ourselves if there are enough customers that would justify having Aires in the UK.


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## Tbear (Nov 14, 2012)

Stanski said:


> The suggestions offered of approaching Marinas, Canal Associations, Supermarkets in addition to Local Council for use of car parks seem to me very sensible - so why, or what, has not allowed this to happen earlier?
> 
> My impression, taken from different reading on other sites and this, is historically Motorhoming in the UK has had an indifferent upbringing and not been allowed to flourish as in Europe because of being a smaller community compared to caravanners, and regulations that inhibit/restrict land use for such purpose that we are seeking as local authorities have the responsibility for allowing such.
> 
> ...



Visit one of the shows and see how many Motorhomes gather there. Imagine if it where free as many Aires are, how many of those motorhomes would use them. Then think about the number of illegally parked travellers might be persuaded to use them.

Richard


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 15, 2012)

Tbear said:


> Visit one of the shows and see how many Motorhomes gather there. Imagine if it where free as many Aires are, how many of those motorhomes would use them. Then think about the number of illegally parked travellers might be persuaded to use them.
> 
> Richard



Reminding me of the film Field of Dreams. Build it and they will come?

(Not that I want the Chicago Black Sox to come and visit an aire!   )


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## maingate (Dec 5, 2012)

Regarding the Scottish Harbour Trust that I have been in contact with.

The other day I sent them a link to the Devon Council which has changed its approach to motorhomes. One of the Committee replied to this (as opposed to the Secretary I first contacted). He told me that the matter had been brought up at the last meeting (not for the first time, he said) but had not been successful as a majority were against the idea. This gentleman and a few others were in favour, so it may happen at some time in the future.

He did say that a blind eye would be turned on the occasional van that overnighted but I will not be passing the details on to canalsman due to the possible numbers that might take advantage of this. It may work against us as this Port is very busy with visitors at the height of the tourist season.


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## Bigpeetee (Dec 5, 2012)

mariesnowgoose said:


> The supermarket idea sounds good.
> 
> Does anyone know if the national supermarket brands already provide something like this overseas?
> 
> I know Walmart (Asda) is international, but don't if any UK-based supermarkets operate abroad.



Walmart in the US provide extra large parking for RV's, as do many other supermarkets and shopping malls, but land is so much cheaper over the pond.

At the moment, I've run out of time and more important energy trying to discuss with councils about car park changes etc!!

Feels like trying to change the direction of a tanker using a canoe paddle!!

Boy oh boy do these people like to hide behind their own barriers at the entrance to their Ivory Towers.

PS, I feel that each dept don't talk to another, let alone work together as it may upset their comfortable lives, they have fortified boxes without windows and so tall, they can't look out of their box. A solid roof to the box limits "Blue Sky" thinking.


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## Tbear (Dec 5, 2012)

Its a great shame that there is no way to contact all the motorhomers in a given area. If we could get a good sized group together we may have a chance. At present it is single individuals trying to take on whole councils. You are passed from one department to another until you run out of fresh arguments or they just ignore you. A larger group would have more power, energy and would be more difficult to ignore. Perhaps one day Admin from all the top forums will get together and seek permission from their members to produce regional lists of members.

Richard


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## defitzi (Dec 7, 2012)

caspar said:


> I've opened this to try to divert attention from the thread about Radar Keys. As the poster mentioned below has stated her intent to move the discussion onto this,I've opened it as a new thread for her:
> 
> mariesnowgoose
> 
> ...



why? (should I be-I have a potti)


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## mariesnowgoose (Dec 7, 2012)

defitzi said:


> why? (should I be-I have a potti)



Don't go there, defitzi, just trust me on that!


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