# Gas it questions



## Robmac (Jan 18, 2017)

I am dithering between an underslung tank and a refillable bottle in the van with remote filler. Due to the difference in price, I will probably go with the bottle in the van.

So, a couple of questions;

Are there any laws/requirements for a dedicated locker? I can't seem to find one big enough for sale anywhere for an 11kg bottle. I suppose I could have one made or make one myself.

Can you get gas at places like Tesco 24 hour self service/card payment pumps?

Thank you.


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## n brown (Jan 18, 2017)

there's no laws/regs regarding gas installation, so no need for a gas locker. common sense however means making a cupboard for the bottle that will contain any leak and give it an escape route via a 'drop out hole' [4cm ?]. i never thought it necessary to line it in metal, unless you can make it blast proof


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## Rich and Sarah (Jan 18, 2017)

Hi 
I went with an internal (gas locker) refillable bottle but i went for the much lighter alugas system. No discount i know but was more interested weight issue. went for the 11kg bottle and a back up 7 kg calor light bottle, which i already had. I installed the filler on the outside of the vehicle and have filled it up from forecourts. I have also got an account with Countrywise so can use their 24 hr fill up points dotted around the country.  well worth doing


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## Rich and Sarah (Jan 18, 2017)

Id have a quick look round the internet for any regs. There must be some regarding gas lockers etc


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## n brown (Jan 18, 2017)

Rich and Sarah said:


> Id have a quick look round the internet for any regs. There must be some regarding gas lockers etc


 shhh!  we're managing fine without them- there's enough rules and regs already !


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## Rich and Sarah (Jan 18, 2017)

n brown said:


> shhh!  we're managing fine without them- there's enough rules and regs already !



woops sorry lol


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## mickymost (Jan 18, 2017)

Rich and Sarah said:


> Hi
> I went with an internal (gas locker) refillable bottle but i went for the much lighter alugas system. No discount i know but was more interested weight issue. went for the 11kg bottle and a back up 7 kg calor light bottle, which i already had. I installed the filler on the outside of the vehicle and have filled it up from forecourts. I have also got an account with Countrywise so can use their 24 hr fill up points dotted around the country.  well worth doing



To clarify is it countrywise lpg or countrywide lpg ? Only we have refill gas and are interested in this as a supplier

Regards


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## Fazerloz (Jan 18, 2017)

Take your van and see what the biggest tank is that will fit under your van. You might not be able to gain much more capacity in gas compared to a 11kg Gasit. bottle in a locker. Unless you are desperate to free up the locker space. Don't forget the bigger the gas tank the less your payload. Everything is a compromise. I was Quoted £700 for a tank fitting and for me personally the small gas capacity gain and freeing the gas locker wasn't worth it so went with a 11kg Gasit bottle. If you free up the gas locker all it means is you can carry more crap you don't need.
I don't remember ever having seen a card pay gas pump. Others may know different.  :cheers:


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## Robmac (Jan 18, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> Take your van and see what the biggest tank is that will fit under your van. You might not be able to gain much more capacity in gas compared to a 11kg Gasit. bottle in a locker. Unless you are desperate to free up the locker space. Don't forget the bigger the gas tank the less your payload. Everything is a compromise. I was Quoted £700 for a tank fitting and for me personally the small gas capacity gain and freeing the gas locker wasn't worth it so went with a 11kg Gasit bottle. If you free up the gas locker all it means is you can carry more crap you don't need.
> I don't remember ever having seen a card pay gas pump. Others may know different.  :cheers:



My quandry is that the spare wheel is a bit of a pain to get off (quite a lot of a pain actually), so I thought I would get an underslung tank installed where the spare was and keep the spare wheel under the bed (It's a Renault Master PVC). 

Like you, I would be looking at £7-800 for an underslung as opposed to £200ish for an 11kg bottle.

I think with that price difference, I will go with the bottle. Hopefully, I won't have to get at the spare too often!


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## Namder (Jan 18, 2017)

Aren't vehicles with gas tanks barred from going through the Tunnel.  A big minus for me.

John


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## molly 2 (Jan 18, 2017)

I would consider you gas usage, if you are going to hammer gas in winter an underslung tank  would have benefits.I work on 6 kg ,4 nights  on low 24/7 ,Truma 2400 . Very quiet  low battery consumption 1/2 amph .bazz


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## Robmac (Jan 18, 2017)

molly 2 said:


> I would consider you gas usage, if you are going to hammer gas in winter an underslung tank  would have benefits.I work on 6 kg ,4 nights  on low 24/7 ,Truma 2400 . Very quiet  low battery consumption 1/2 amph .bazz



Thanks Bazz.

I was going for the Propex system, but I will certainly look into the Truma.

You will have to give me a demo at Buxworth next week. I'll get Tom to buy you a pint in return! :cheers:


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## The laird (Jan 18, 2017)

Robmac said:


> My quandry is that the spare wheel is a bit of a pain to get off (quite a lot of a pain actually), so I thought I would get an underslung tank installed where the spare was and keep the spare wheel under the bed (It's a Renault Master PVC).
> A
> Like you, I would be looking at £7-800 for an underslung as opposed to £200ish for an 11kg bottle.
> 
> I think with that price difference, I will go with the bottle. Hopefully, I won't have to get at the spare too often!



Rob my mate done his convertion on a short wheelbase and mounted the wheel on the back doors


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## Robmac (Jan 18, 2017)

The laird said:


> Rob my mate done his convertion on a short wheelbase and mounted the wheel on the back doors



Can you find out what kit he used if you get a chance Gordon? Please.


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## alwaysared (Jan 18, 2017)

Rich and Sarah said:


> Hi
> I went with an internal (gas locker) refillable bottle but i went for the much lighter alugas system. No discount i know but was more interested weight issue. went for the 11kg bottle and a back up 7 kg calor light bottle, which i already had. I installed the filler on the outside of the vehicle and have filled it up from forecourts.



I did the same, the weight saving is quite surprising.

Regards,
Del


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## Fazerloz (Jan 18, 2017)

Robmac said:


> My quandry is that the spare wheel is a bit of a pain to get off (quite a lot of a pain actually), so I thought I would get an underslung tank installed where the spare was and keep the spare wheel under the bed (It's a Renault Master PVC).
> 
> Like you, I would be looking at £7-800 for an underslung as opposed to £200ish for an 11kg bottle.
> 
> I think with that price difference, I will go with the bottle. Hopefully, I won't have to get at the spare too often!



My last van was a Master and the spare was under the bed and took up a load of room.  I made a bracket to mount the wheel to the offside rear door and a plate to cover the wheel centre and was able to fit hydraulic jack, wheel nut bar, blocks of wood and ratchet straps in. The cover plate was held on with a threaded bar and locking wheel nut to keep things safe.


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## molly 2 (Jan 18, 2017)

Robmac said:


> Thanks Bazz.
> 
> I was going for the Propex system, but I will certainly look into the Truma.
> 
> You will have to give me a demo at Buxworth next week. I'll get Tom to buy you a pint in return! :cheers:


 Thanks rob I only drink scotch ,:cheers:


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## Robmac (Jan 18, 2017)

molly 2 said:


> Thanks rob I only drink scotch ,:cheers:



No problem Bazz.

Tom will stand you a pint of Scotch.


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## Pauljenny (Jan 18, 2017)

You were asking, Rob, about supermarkets that supply autogas.
In my experience,only Morrisons.. And not all of them,at that.
There's plenty of info on the web, ( fill.lpg ), and did I hear that the POI.s were going to include some?
We have 2 onboard bottles and always try to refill when the first gets empty... No problems,so far


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## Robmac (Jan 18, 2017)

Pauljenny said:


> You were asking, Rob, about supermarkets that supply autogas.
> In my experience,only Morrisons.. And not all of them,at that.
> There's plenty of info on the web, ( fill.lpg ), and did I hear that the POI.s were going to include some?
> We have 2 onboard bottles and always try to refill when the first gets empty... No problems,so far



Thanks Paul. Handy site.


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## runnach (Jan 19, 2017)

EN1949 are the current standards to be working to for a motor caravan.

The industry is not particularly very good at conveying amendments, but there are plenty of rules and regs re ventilation , pipe sizing , length of pig tails etc.


As others have suggested , a suitable cupboard with drop vent should suffice, the only addition is the bottles should be secured. cradles are available that incorporate straps to secure when in transit. 

Channa


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## Pauljenny (Jan 19, 2017)

channa said:


> EN1949 are the current standards to be working to for a motor caravan.
> 
> The industry is not particularly very good at conveying amendments, but there are plenty of rules and regs re ventilation , pipe sizing , length of pig tails etc.
> 
> ...



Yeah... That'sOK  for Ford drivers,   but what rules are there for us Renault owners?:dance:


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## molly 2 (Jan 19, 2017)

Are there any laws/requirements for a dedicated locker? I can't seem to find one big enough for sale anywhere for an 11kg bottle. I suppose I could have one made one 
.[/QUOTE]. Streatsleeper would have made one out of an old fridge by now.:sleep-027::sleep-027:


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## runnach (Jan 19, 2017)

molly 2 said:


> Are there any laws/requirements for a dedicated locker? I can't seem to find one big enough for sale anywhere for an 11kg bottle. I suppose I could have one made one
> .


. Streatsleeper would have made one out of an old fridge by now.:sleep-027::sleep-027:[/QUOTE]

Ask an easier question !!

There are two pieces of legislation to comply with, and one code of practice relating to motor caravans

1) BS EN 1949 2002 Specification for the installation of LPG systems for habitation purposes in Leisure accommodation vehicles and in other road vehicles

2) BS EN 721 2004v  Ventilation requirements

3) Code of practice 21 Guide to safety checks on LPG appliances in LAV's



This is where it gets complicated... the ideal storage is a locker box that is fire resistant to BS476 part 22 1987 (bottom line is can withstand fire resistance for 30 mins not explosions)

If a gas appliance or bottle is stored in a cupboard think water heaters the ventilation requirements are slightly different which explains why in statics you often find water heaters stored in a cupboard with the correct ventilation The same is true of Gas bottles which is why the converters put them in seperate lockers albeit not to the BS standard.

Technically a gas locker SHOULD HAVE high and low ventilation re drop outs. Of course this not always possible which is why it remains a code of practice rather than a legal requirement

The cupboard should be vented at 1/100th  of the floor area both high and low, If only low is possible then the lower ventilation must be at least 1/25 th of the floor area

Hopefully you can see why cupboards are used now, it takes care of a problem and then leaves only the EN requirements to comply with within the habitation area.


Channa









The


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## runnach (Jan 19, 2017)

molly 2 said:


> Are there any laws/requirements for a dedicated locker? I can't seem to find one big enough for sale anywhere for an 11kg bottle. I suppose I could have one made one
> .


. Streatsleeper would have made one out of an old fridge by now.:sleep-027::sleep-027:[/QUOTE]

A bit more thought to your question, and hopefully you see why lockers are used to comply with other legislation here is another thought

If I were to be asked to issue a safety certificate, in the situation you describe a bottle in the hab area I think I would be on safe ground to refuse. Not the fact no locker BUT safe storage LPG gas association Code of practice 7 states any bottle should be away from a source of ignition. In a locker you tick that box. In the hab area electric sparks , naked flames from hobs etc ......I think would be sufficient to refuse a certificate.

It is not about the requirements of a locker more by lack one how I timpacts on the rest of the legislation 

CHanna


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## Deleted member 19733 (Jan 19, 2017)

mickymost said:


> To clarify is it countrywise lpg or countrywide lpg ? Only we have refill gas and are interested in this as a supplier
> 
> Regards




It is Countrywide. easy enough to open an account, set up direct debit monthly payments. You'll get a Data key dedicated to your vehicle, reg number will be displayed on the screen of filling station, enter your pin, connect and fill. Access 24 hours. You'll get a list of sites with maps. If you change your vehicle you'll need to re-register your key to match new reg. number. Simples.

:have fun::cheers::drive::drive::drive:

Their website here: Domestic & Commercial LPG Supplier | Countrywide LPG : Countrywide LPG


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## Deleted member 64209 (Jan 20, 2017)

Rich and Sarah said:


> Id have a quick look round the internet for any regs. There must be some regarding gas lockers etc



I'd be surprised if there were no regs regarding gas bottle cabinets for MHs. Over 30 years ago I did a fair trade making mandatory sheet metal gas bottle compartments for mobile catering trailers and vans and thought the idea would have spilt over into MH's before now. Whatever you do it's essential to ventilate the floor of the compartment, make good provision to secure the bottles and have Elf n Safety gas bottle hazard stickers displayed on the door which should only open to the outside of the vehicle.


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## Robmac (Feb 9, 2017)

Well in the end, I've bitten the bullet and gone for an underslung tank.

The van is booked in at Autogas next Friday morning and should be complete by lunchtime. Which also means I can get back to meet up with some reprobates at Brandon Friday evening.

They seem nice people to deal with. (Autogas, not the reprobates).


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## Wooie1958 (Feb 9, 2017)

What size Rob ?


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 9, 2017)

Robmac said:


> Well in the end, I've bitten the bullet and gone for an underslung tank.
> 
> The van is booked in at Autogas next Friday morning and should be complete by lunchtime. Which also means I can get back to meet up with some reprobates at Brandon Friday evening.
> 
> They seem nice people to deal with. (Autogas, not the reprobates).



WHOO HOO !,,,
You wont Know what to do with all the extra gass now matey lol lol. Put the Kettle on !.


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## Robmac (Feb 9, 2017)

Wooie1958 said:


> What size Rob ?



I've gone for a 25 litre Graham, which equates to 10kg.

On our previous MH we had 2 x 6kg, which seemed to last us weeks. The system will have a dash mounted LED level guage, so hopefully we won't get caught out.


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## The laird (Feb 9, 2017)

Robmac said:


> I've gone for a 25 litre Graham, which equates to 10kg.
> 
> On our previous MH we had 2 x 6kg, which seemed to last us weeks. The system will have a dash mounted LED level guage, so hopefully we won't get caught out.



Are you going to thirsk for installation rob?


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## Robmac (Feb 9, 2017)

I also decided that the spare wheel is going back under the van. It will save loads of room under the bed.

So instead of going where the spare wheel was going, the tank is being fitted as per another one they did (see picture) and with a filler cap in the skirt;


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## Robmac (Feb 9, 2017)

The laird said:


> Are you going to thirsk for installation rob?



Yes, that's it Gordon.

I'll drop the van off at 8am and find somewhere for (large) breakfast hopefully.


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## Fazerloz (Feb 9, 2017)

Can I ask how much Rob as I was quoted £700 for the same size tank in Leeds


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## molly 2 (Feb 9, 2017)

Robmac said:


> I also decided that the spare wheel is going back under the van. It will save loads of room under the bed.
> 
> So instead of going where the spare wheel was going, the tank is being fitted as per another one they did (see picture) and with a filler cap in the skirt;
> 
> View attachment 50690


You got it right Rob


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## Obanboy666 (Feb 9, 2017)

Rob, is your Renault a post 2010 van ?
The reason I ask is I have one with an onboard Gaslow but have been considering an underslung tank.
The only issue I may have is the fresh and waste water tanks take up most of the space underneath. I reckon I'll just call into Autogas 2000 and they can decide if it's possible, they are just down the road from me and fitted my refillable on my c class. 
Great company to deal with.


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## Robmac (Feb 9, 2017)

Obanboy666 said:


> Rob, is your Renault a post 2010 van ?
> The reason I ask is I have one with an onboard Gaslow but have been considering an underslung tank.
> The only issue I may have is the fresh and waste water tanks take up most of the space underneath. I reckon I'll just call into Autogas 2000 and they can decide if it's possible, they are just down the road from me and fitted my refillable on my c class.
> Great company to deal with.



Hi OB,

Yes mine is a 2012, and the one in the picture is the same model, so it is possible to fit a 25litre tank on either side of the van.

I will PM you.


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## exwindsurfer (Feb 10, 2017)

I fitted a 38ltr under slung luckfor me my mate had the filling kit so all I had to buy was the tank at £208 quid my tank came with lugs all read welded on so it was just a straight forward job to bolt it to the underside of the floor.I think its a 15kg bottle .we make a big alloy shield to go in front of it to stop stone chips .


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## Robmac (Feb 10, 2017)

exwindsurfer said:


> I fitted a 38ltr under slung luckfor me my mate had the filling kit so all I had to buy was the tank at £208 quid my tank came with lugs all read welded on so it was just a straight forward job to bolt it to the underside of the floor.I think its a 15kg bottle .we make a big alloy shield to go in front of it to stop stone chips .



Hi Jeff,

I thought about doing it myself, but I don't like working with gas fittings so I would rather let them do it. They also spray it with Stoneguard.

Not a bad idea re the alloy shield though, I could easily rivet one to the outriggers on the chassis as extra protection.


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## The laird (Feb 10, 2017)

Robmac said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> I thought about doing it myself, but I don't like working with gas fittings so I would rather let them do it. They also spray it with Stoneguard.
> 
> Not a bad idea re the alloy shield though, I could easily rivet one to the outriggers on the chassis as extra protection.



Also deflects snow ice and chill away from the face of the tank rob


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## Deleted member 58330 (Feb 16, 2017)

*70mm filler hole*

Hello, quick advice required.  Just bought 11Kg gas it system with outside filling point.  So I know i need 70mm Hole saw outside then 86mm inside.  Assume start from inside using pilot hole as starter, then go in a bit with 86mm hole saw to get line, then go in from outside with 70mm, then finish off inside again with 86mm hole saw to get to the metal bit.  Those who have done this will know what I am on about and any pitfalls.  
Thanks


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## Fazerloz (Feb 16, 2017)

Another option is to run your flexi filler pipe down through the gas dropout and fasten the filler point to the bottom edge of the van.


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## hotrats (Feb 16, 2017)

loulou said:


> It is Countrywide. easy enough to open an account, set up direct debit monthly payments. You'll get a Data key dedicated to your vehicle, reg number will be displayed on the screen of filling station, enter your pin, connect and fill. Access 24 hours. You'll get a list of sites with maps. If you change your vehicle you'll need to re-register your key to match new reg. number. Simples.
> 
> :have fun::cheers::drive::drive::drive:
> 
> Their website here: Domestic & Commercial LPG Supplier | Countrywide LPG : Countrywide LPG



They do not seem to have any in Scotland. Sorry just found hunners,well no hunners but quite a few.


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## Deleted member 58330 (Feb 20, 2017)

hip  hip all done today.  11Kg.  And Shell in Llandudno Junction off A55 was used for 1st fill.  20.8l  @ £12.90.  The fill button was a bit fiddly, had to keep it pressed down until it went to zero, this took a while so I think when you press button, only then does shop person reset.  Good to go and now I have a pair of 70mm and 86mm hole cutters and Abour  if anybody round Llandudno /N wales wants a hand fitting a system with outside filler.


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