# Breathlised while wilding



## donnk (Jan 3, 2015)

Anyone had any trouble on this front ?

I seem to remember if you are in a car with the keys on your person but the car not started you can still be breathalysed and convicted of drink driving.

Wonder how this would work if parked up for the night not on private property having a bevvie and plod knocks on your door with blow into this...


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## jagmanx (Jan 3, 2015)

*Maybe*

I suggest if you are in a Layby then it could happen but if you are all locked up etc and not in the driving seat and keys are out the way it is unlikely !
As you say private land OK.
What is the status of council or harbour carparks....surely these are in essence "Private" The same goes for a store carpark etc and NT areas.


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## kenspain (Jan 3, 2015)

Over here we hide the keys and just say the wife has got them in her bag and is at a friends house while we fish as they try and do you if you got the keys for drunk in charge of a motor no keys no charge :wave:


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## donnk (Jan 3, 2015)

kenspain said:


> Over here we hide the keys and just say the wife has got them in her bag and is at a friends house while we fish as they try and do you if you got the keys for drunk in charge of a motor no keys no charge :wave:



i like your style.


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## Polar Bear (Jan 3, 2015)

donnk said:


> Anyone had any trouble on this front ?
> 
> I seem to remember if you are in a car with the keys on your person but the car not started you can still be breathalysed and convicted of drink driving.
> 
> Wonder how this would work if parked up for the night not on private property having a bevvie and plod knocks on your door with blow into this...




My son who used to work for Davenport Lyons, a big legal firm in London, sent me this when I told him about sleeping in pub car parks.

Its on a pdf file so I copied and pasted?

Alcohol and your motor-home - know the law
At this time of year pitching up in your motor-home and having a tipple is a treat many of us enjoy. But be warned, it's easier to be prosecuted for being 'drunk in charge' than you think...
We ask Philip Somarakis, an expert motoring lawyer with Davenport Lyons, what the legal implications are of parking into a pub car park, having a few alcoholic drinks and then getting back into your motor-home to sleep it off.
On the face of it, driving your “home” to a public house is a pretty good idea to avoid drinking and driving as you now have a pub on your doorstep.
Motor-home owners should however be cautious about the risks of being "drunk in charge" of a motor home if they are staying overnight in the car park.
If you are drunk “in charge” of your motor-home on a road or “public place” you can be arrested by the police and could lose your licence if convicted.
This article looks at whether a parking area for motor-homes next to a pub amounts to a “public place” and also what being “in charge” of a motorhome means. We also focus on the scenario where you have evening dinner and drinks.
AT A GLANCE
Before you start drinking alcohol, you must:
• Make sure your motor-home is already parked up for the night. Do not take the risk of having to move it later to the right place,
even if it's just a short distance within the car park or into an adjacent field
• Ensure your motor-home is not causing an obstruction. You should always consider whether you might be asked to move it later so
• Have some evidence if possible of the duration of your stay, so that you could prove your intention to sleep overnight in the car park after you've had a drink of alcohol, you must:
• Never start up the engine in your motor-home
• Never place the key in the ignition
• Never sit behind the steering wheel or in the driver’s seat if it is facing forwards
Any or all of the above could be taken as indicators that you may be contemplating driving the motor home and are more likely to attract attention from the police.
Always remember that if you've had a lot of alcohol to drink, you may still be over the legal limit the following morning.


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## Steve121 (Jan 3, 2015)

It's a tricky one. If you're walking towards your vehicle with keys in your hand and you're breathalysed, you can be prosecuted for attempting to drive under the influence. The penalty is the same as if you were actually driving.
If you keep your keys in a locked cabinet, safe or similar I should think it's extremely unlikely you could be successfully prosecuteted.


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## jagmanx (Jan 3, 2015)

*Walking to MH whilst Under the influece*



Steve121 said:


> It's a tricky one. If you're walking towards your vehicle with keys in your hand and you're breathalysed, you can be prosecuted for attempting to drive under the influence. The penalty is the same as if you were actually driving.
> If you keep your keys in a locked cabinet, safe or similar I should think it's extremely unlikely you could be successfully prosecuteted.



Can solve this by keeping the Ignition key safely "hidden" in the vehicle just have the habitation Key with you. Problem with this is that the alarm is normally with the ignition key !
So leave the alarm off for once.

If you are drinking in the vehicle ..No problem x2.
If you have rotating seats make sure the drivers seat is not facing forward


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## Tallyman (Jan 3, 2015)

It is definitely a tricky one I was told a public road is any road the public has access to so where is it safe to have a drink in your MH ?


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## Polar Bear (Jan 3, 2015)

jagmanx said:


> Can solve this by keeping the Ignition key safely "hidden" in the vehicle just have the habitation Key with you. Problem with this is that the alarm is normally with the ignition key !
> So leave the alarm off for once.
> 
> If you are drinking in the vehicle ..No problem x2.
> If you have rotating seats make sure the drivers seat is not facing forward



you could leave your keys with the landlord?


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## Antonio (Jan 3, 2015)

*Drop down bed?*

Would this be the answer?


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## Wooie1958 (Jan 3, 2015)

We`ve been " called in on " a couple of times by the police when wilding and never had any problems.

It was blatantly obvious that we wasn`t going anywhere with the silver screen on, front seats swivelled and the telly on.

Cans of carlsberg openly on show that i was drinking at the time didn`t bother them.

Firstly they apologised for disturbing us, asked if we`d seen 2 vehicles they were looking for then wished us a pleasant evening and left.

Another time they came in to see " what type of vehicle " as they called it was spending the night there.

This is our experience others will argue differently.


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

Polar Bear said:


> you could leave your keys with the landlord?



You can still be considered "in charge" of the vehicle even if you are not in possession of the keys. For example, the police could consider that you were drunk enough to sit in the driver's seat, release the handbrake and let the vehicle roll onto the road. Thus, leaving the keys with someone else or putting them in a safe is not sufficient. But if you follow the sensible advice outlined by your son you should not have any trouble. It is all about whether or not the police think you could pose a risk - so be sensible and you should be ok.


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 3, 2015)

I am fairly sure that they would be more interested in someone sleeping in their car, who is likely to wake up at 3am bloody freezing & decide to risk driving home.

Avoid the  indicators that you may be contemplating driving the motor home. Are they really going to take you to court if you are wearing pyjamas, with the screens on, hot water bottles in the bed etc. etc.

Hasn't this one been done to death before?


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## Delboy (Jan 3, 2015)

Wooie1958 said:


> 'asked if we`d seen 2 vehicles they were looking for then wished us a pleasant evening and left.'


 expect that was just an excuse to check you out!


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## lebesset (Jan 3, 2015)

if there are 2 of you how do they decide which of you to charge ??


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## K9d (Jan 3, 2015)

In the, probably very unlikely, event of the police arresting someone in their motorhome for drinking it would probably never get past the DPP once it was obvious that you were there for the night.
Its almost the same as arresting someone in their house because they may drive the car on their drive, possible but unlikely. 

Personally if I'm wilding then I will stay under the limit just in case I need to move, in Europe on an Aire or pub car park I will have a couple of pints, that's about my limit anyway, enough to enjoy them not so much I'm suffering the next day.


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## Wooie1958 (Jan 3, 2015)

Delboy said:


> expect that was just an excuse to check you out!




OK, if you say so.


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## Wooie1958 (Jan 3, 2015)

Sharon the Cat said:


> I am fairly sure that they would be more interested in someone sleeping in their car, who is likely to wake up at 3am bloody freezing & decide to risk driving home.
> 
> Avoid the  indicators that you may be contemplating driving the motor home. Are they really going to take you to court if you are wearing pyjamas, with the screens on, hot water bottles in the bed etc. etc.
> 
> Hasn't this one been done to death before?




Here Here.


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

Ignoring, for the moment, the implied insult to modern police, what you say makes sense. I have friends who are/were in the police and they all say that they have far more important things to deal with than motorhomers staying the night in a place where they are causing no trouble. It is all a matter of judgement - and if they think you are drunk enough to not know what you are doing, that you may release the handbrake and allow the vehicle to roll into a position where it can cause a great deal of trouble, then you have a problem. Also, if you take the kind of belligerent attitude you display in your post, they may decide you could cause trouble. The sensible way to deal with any knock on the door is to be polite, appear to be in control (of yourself) and not insult the integrity of modern police. If you do that, you are not likely to have any trouble. 

PS It is not good enough to be on private premises. If you are sitting in your vehicle on your own drive you can still be arrested if the police think you are liable to do something silly.


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## Wooie1958 (Jan 3, 2015)

Here we go ................ *I`m Out !*


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

Pendel said:


> this is certainly a 'worry what if thread'.  Over the years we have load of encounters with the Police.  We have even called them to deal with anti social behaviour.  They are not interested in breathalysing you as they know it would be difficult to prove an intent to drive.  Nobody can come on this thread and say oh yes I was done a few years for being in charge etc as I do not think it equates if you are sleeping.  Once more case point -  HGV drivers can have a beer in the evening.  It was proved in court that if a person can have a beer after work in his home so can a HGV driver as he has finished work, therefore quite legit to park up,  watching tv with a beer or 2.  Case proven my lord!



Absolutely agree with you - the trouble only comes if you are a "I know my rights" type who are likely to make the police want to find a way to get back at you.


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

Thank you for posting an example of precisely the type of approach you should not use if approached by the police.


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## Fazerloz (Jan 3, 2015)

Ive just been reading through some of the police forums and the vast majority it would seem would use a bit of common. One did say if the vehicle was parked at the side of the road and was involved in a accident then he would have to breathalyse which I hadn't considered. It was newbie police that said they would arrest and let the courts decide. The onus is on you to prove you have no intention to drive. I personally don't consider it to be worth worrying about. Just use a bit of common. :cheers:


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## st3v3 (Jan 3, 2015)

I have the ignition key on a quick release from the rest of the keys and it gets locked away when we're on the p1ss.

Hoping if we do get asked that it will show I'm at least trying to show we are not going anywhere drunk.


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## kenspain (Jan 3, 2015)

My son has just got in from his work and i asked him what he would do if they saw you parked up for the night and having a drink in you motor. He said he would ask for a small G and T with ice please :wave: so there you go.


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## Fazerloz (Jan 3, 2015)

Quite a lot park roadside overnight especially at costal resorts or when waiting for ferries. That's why have so much bother like at Aberystwyth,  to name just one.


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## Deleted member 775 (Jan 3, 2015)

when we had our van only time we were disturbed by the police was when they were a little dry and only a nice sweet cuppa would do , scrounging sods . isent it funny ,they always seem to have a sixth sense when freeby tea coffee and the odd choccy biscuit is around .


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

st3v3 said:


> I have the ignition key on a quick release from the rest of the keys and it gets locked away when we're on the p1ss.
> 
> Hoping if we do get asked that it will show I'm at least trying to show we are not going anywhere drunk.



Exactly - the whole thing hinges on intention. If you can demonstrate - in a polite manner - that there is no intention to move then you will almost certainly have no trouble.  This could extend to having the seats rotated from the driving position or being in bed! If, on the other hand, you start insulting the police then you can be sure they will find a reason to say you either intended to drive or were so irresponsible you could have let the vehicle drift into the path of another. Common sense, really.


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## trevskoda (Jan 3, 2015)

intension has nothing to do with it,i had a uncle who was dun in bangor co down for having the keys in his pocket and the car on a public rd.convicted and fined for drunk in charge,the fact that you have the keys means you are in charge wheither you intend to drive or not,so give them to the barman/wife if sober ,this means whither the vh is on the highway or not you are not in charge.mind you thats why we got rid of the ruc and replaced with psni or so we are told.n / irish law may differ from that of mainland.


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## merc the berc (Jan 3, 2015)

I follow a few bands around the country on tours and sometimes have to park on the sides of roads in parking bays etc as close to a venue as possible. I'm 'lucky' in a way that i have a demountable camper on the back of a truck with no walk through access to the driver seat, i always put a crook lock on the steering wheel and in the back put the kettle on the stove, cups, sugar, coffee on display for the morning, my bed is always made to look like i intend to sleep in it.

It's all about common sense and creating an illusion really, oh, and i also have a breathalyser on display ready for the morning. I'm always ready for the knock on the door but have never had one as yet. [Touch wood], also when parking up keep an eye out for cctv etc....:cheers:


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## SteveM (Jan 3, 2015)

The last paragraph is absolutely spot on, and probably the definitive answer for this question that keeps being raised.

I would hazard that the application of the law is your issue, not the interpretation. The law is written with very few shades of grey. The points to prove are set out, and if they are met, the offence is complete. How a policeman then deals with it is undoubtedly at question. The days of unfettered discretion are long gone, that said, I'm sure not every mobile phone using driver is given points and a fine. The lack of discretion in my view is predominantly down to the policies and procedures of individual forces, woe betide any officer who operates outside of these and it somehow comes to the attention of senior management.  Undoubtedly there are a few policeman who have no concept of discretion, but the bottom line is the offence needs to made out and there are numerous conditions to be met before a case is decided by a court.

There is no offence of 'going equipped' to commit crime. 'Going Equipped' relates to theft and fraud offences. Likewise having a set of keys in your pocket and tackle in your trousers is not enough to commit an offence under the Criminal Attempts Act.

Somebody mentioned that you could be arrested for sitting in your car on a private drive if the police believed you were going to do something silly. That is true but the arrest would not be for a drink drive/drunk in charge related offence. The road or other public place point to prove is missing.


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## SteveM (Jan 3, 2015)

John H said:


> Exactly - the whole thing hinges on intention. If you can demonstrate - in a polite manner - that there is no intention to move then you will almost certainly have no trouble.  This could extend to having the seats rotated from the driving position or being in bed! If, on the other hand, you start insulting the police then you can be sure they will find a reason to say you either intended to drive or were so irresponsible you could have let the vehicle drift into the path of another. Common sense, really.



Exactly, but in today's risk averse culture, an officer could still take the view that it could take all of 5 minutes for you to be out on the road driving, once he has left you in peace. If an accident ensues down the road and you are over the limit. What will happen to that officer who used common sense? 

As already said, if you are parked on a road or public place don't drink. Parked up somewhere private, fill your glass!


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> intension has nothing to do with it,i had a uncle who was dun in bangor co down for having the keys in his pocket and the car on a public rd.convicted and fined for drunk in charge,the fact that you have the keys means you are in charge wheither you intend to drive or not,so give them to the barman/wife if sober ,this means whither the vh is on the highway or not you are not in charge.mind you thats why we got rid of the ruc and replaced with psni or so we are told.n / irish law may differ from that of mainland.



Sorry, but intention has EVERYTHING to do with it -  Drunk in Charge of a Motor Vehicle Legal Specialists 

Thus, giving the keys to someone else might demonstrate lack of intention but if the officer thought you were so intoxicated you could let the handbrake off and drift, it wouldn't matter if the keys were in Mongolia. In this way, you can be done for drunk in charge even on your own drive - if, for example, by letting off the handbrake you could let the vehicle drift onto the highway. As I and others have said, however, the risk is small - providing you are polite and reasonable.


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

SteveM said:


> Exactly, but in today's risk averse culture, an officer could still take the view that it could take all of 5 minutes for you to be out on the road driving, once he has left you in peace. If an accident ensues down the road and you are over the limit. What will happen to that officer who used common sense?
> 
> As already said, if you are parked on a road or public place don't drink. Parked up somewhere private, fill your glass!



As I said earlier, the police are not interested in wildcampers unless they give a reason for the police to want to cause them trouble - eg by insulting them!

As to the second point, the definition of a public place is more complicated than you might think. For example, you could, in theory, be prosecuted for being in your van on a private campsite if the police thought there was intention to drive on the public highway. Similarly on your drive.  

I have had conversations with the police while wildcamping on what was technically the highway. I am always polite and often over the limit. I have never had any trouble.


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## trevskoda (Jan 3, 2015)

John H said:


> Sorry, but intention has EVERYTHING to do with it -  Drunk in Charge of a Motor Vehicle Legal Specialists
> 
> Thus, giving the keys to someone else might demonstrate lack of intention but if the officer thought you were so intoxicated you could let the handbrake off and drift, it wouldn't matter if the keys were in Mongolia. In this way, you can be done for drunk in charge even on your own drive - if, for example, by letting off the handbrake you could let the vehicle drift onto the highway. As I and others have said, however, the risk is small - providing you are polite and reasonable.



john you have missed my point the charge is <in charge of a motor vh> not intent which is non provable.and here in ulster you will get pulled by cops and most hand the keys to pulican and taxi home,some barmen ask for your keys when they see you have had a few to many.and may i add in irish republic they crush your car.


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> john you have missed my point the charge is <in charge of a motor vh> not intent which is non provable.and here in ulster you will get pulled by cops and most hand the keys to pulican and taxi home,some barmen ask for your keys when they see you have had a few to many.and may i add in irish republic they crush your car.



I don't think I did miss your point - I refer you again to the link I posted. You can be found to be "in charge" of your vehicle even if you are not in it. By giving your keys to the barman you would presumably have a good defence in that you did not intend to drive but if you staggered back to the vehicle and sat in the driving seat, that defence might not be good enough. "In charge" does not depend on being in possession of the keys.


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## trevskoda (Jan 3, 2015)

John H said:


> I don't think I did miss your point - I refer you again to the link I posted. You can be found to be "in charge" of your vehicle even if you are not in it. By giving your keys to the barman you would presumably have a good defence in that you did not intend to drive but if you staggered back to the vehicle and sat in the driving seat, that defence might not be good enough. "In charge" does not depend on being in possession of the keys.



it does in n/ireland as i stated my uncle was dun for it,so anyone comming here with the intent of boozing dont.the plod are upping the anti here over the last few years and down south is worse now the gardi will show no mercy and thats after they beat ten bells out of you,and yes john i have seen them do it with my own eyes.you of all sencible folk should no the score here.


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> it does in n/ireland as i stated my uncle was dun for it,so anyone comming here with the intent of boozing dont.the plod are upping the anti here over the last few years and down south is worse now the gardi will show no mercy and thats after they beat ten bells out of you,and yes john i have seen them do it with my own eyes.you of all sencible folk should no the score here.



The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 The law is similar in Northern Ireland to England and Wales. All I am saying is that it is more extensive than you claim - and that giving the keys to someone else might not be a sufficient defence.


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## trevskoda (Jan 3, 2015)

John H said:


> The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 The law is similar in Northern Ireland to England and Wales. All I am saying is that it is more extensive than you claim - and that giving the keys to someone else might not be a sufficient defence.



yes john i have the legal file in front of me but damed if i can upload it ,help


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## Fazerloz (Jan 3, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> yes john i have the legal file in front of me but damed if i can upload it ,help



Would it help if you had windows. Just asking. :wave:


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## big tom (Jan 3, 2015)

I can go back 20 odd years  on this one, when a truck driver who was parked in a lay-by for the night was charged with being in charge off a vehicle while over the limit, the case went to court and the judge threw it out saying the driver had as much right as anyone else to have a drink after finishing a days work, possibly the fact that driver would not be able to drive legally because he was out of driving time may have influenced the decision, my thoughts are a truck like a motorhome has sleeping facilities so there  is no problem, but a vehicle without sleeping facilities could be viewed differently, it certainly does not bother me when I park up for the night I have my fill and take into account when I will be leaving.


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## trevskoda (Jan 3, 2015)

Fazerloz said:


> Would it help if you had windows. Just asking. :wave:



no no no never.


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## trevskoda (Jan 3, 2015)

big tom said:


> I can go back 20 odd years  on this one, when a truck driver who was parked in a lay-by for the night was charged with being in charge off a vehicle while over the limit, the case went to court and the judge threw it out saying the driver had as much right as anyone else to have a drink after finishing a days work, possibly the fact that driver would not be able to drive legally because he was out of driving time may have influenced the decision, my thoughts are a truck like a motorhome has sleeping facilities so there  is no problem, but a vehicle without sleeping facilities could be viewed differently, it certainly does not bother me when I park up for the night I have my fill and take into account when I will be leaving.



it dont mater a s--t here ,if its mechanically propelled then its a motor vh,i on the acount of what happened in our family i will not take the chance as once pc plod gets you here he will be like a jack russal with a rat.


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## SteveM (Jan 3, 2015)

John H said:


> As I said earlier, the police are not interested in wildcampers unless they give a reason for the police to want to cause them trouble - eg by insulting them!
> 
> As to the second point, the definition of a public place is more complicated than you might think. For example, you could, in theory, be prosecuted for being in your van on a private campsite if the police thought there was intention to drive on the public highway. Similarly on your drive.
> 
> I have had conversations with the police while wildcamping on what was technically the highway. I am always polite and often over the limit. I have never had any trouble.



In relation to the 2nd paragraph could you point me towards the relevant act and/or case law so I can have a look please.


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## Obanboy666 (Jan 3, 2015)

Another reason I'm pleased I don't drink lol !


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

SteveM said:


> In relation to the 2nd paragraph could you point me towards the relevant act and/or case law so I can have a look please.



We have done this one before - and recently! This may point you in the right direction What is a 'road'? «


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## merc the berc (Jan 3, 2015)

Perhaps someone here would be kind enough to get drunk in their van and shout at a copper 'Oi, you, i'm pished what you gonna do about it?' That way, we can get a definitive answer and clear this up once and for all. [Not me though, i've just given up]....

Any takers?


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## trevskoda (Jan 3, 2015)

John H said:


> We have done this one before - and recently! This may point you in the right direction What is a 'road'? «



well here john a road is where the doe have tared and taken control etc ,also shoping car parks are clased as public places but your farm lane or drive way is not counted even though posty has access.


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## SteveM (Jan 3, 2015)

John H said:


> We have done this one before - and recently! This may point you in the right direction What is a 'road'? «



Thank you


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## Deleted member 775 (Jan 3, 2015)

much to some peoples surprise .a camp site is classed as public access  so would probably still come under the drink drive  /in charge  laws .

but as far as i have always believed and its backed up by the police i have spoken to .if you was parked up  and consuming alcohol then the charge of drink drive is not applicable . the other in charge to get a conviction i would assume the officer had to prove intent to drive in court . unless you were sat in the driving seat keys in ignition with the motor running and booze . there wouldent be many truckers left driving if the in charge rule was perused . but next morning . cop car half a mile down road in wait ,now then different story .

 should be ok in south wales though .our local pubs car parks are jam packed with cars . for hours, and empty when closing time comes round and you never see a cop car except out side kebab shops that is . mind you here its always pissing it down and i don't think they like getting wet that much .


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## GWAYGWAY (Jan 3, 2015)

Four adults all sitting there looking confused at "Who is the Driver?" and pointing at each other, who is the driver?  Do not think this is one that would get to court, especially if the vehicle had the legs down and not going anywhere.


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## RichardHelen262 (Jan 3, 2015)

So if Helen and I are in a layby tucked up in bed the keys are in a drawer,we have both had a drink we both own it we are both insured to drive it which one of us is in charge of the vehicle ?


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## trevskoda (Jan 3, 2015)

helen262 said:


> So if Helen and I are in a layby tucked up in bed the keys are in a drawer,we have both had a drink we both own it we both drive it we are both insured for it,which one of us is in charge of the vehicle ?



both of you if its on a tared road or layby,as i stated in early post my uncle got dun for it here ,the police followed him from night club to car and as soon as he pulled out the keys he was arrested and charged ,later got summons to court fined losing licence for 3 mounths,that was in the late sixties.


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## Jimhunterj4 (Jan 3, 2015)

Lol pmsl here


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## RichardHelen262 (Jan 3, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> both of you if its on a tared road or layby,as i stated in early post my uncle got dun for it here ,the police followed him from night club to car and as soon as he pulled out the keys he was arrested and charged ,later got summons to court fined losing licence for 3 mounths,that was in the late sixties.



But if we are both tucked up in bed and neither of us has the keys on us how can they ?


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## Jimhunterj4 (Jan 3, 2015)

By laws exist on camp sites don't they ? If you drink and drive on a camp site and get caught ( stands to reason, kids around ) your pumped


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## John H (Jan 3, 2015)

mandrake said:


> much to some peoples surprise .a camp site is classed as public access  so would probably still come under the drink drive  /in charge  laws .
> 
> but as far as i have always believed and its backed up by the police i have spoken to .if you was parked up  and consuming alcohol then the charge of drink drive is not applicable . the other in charge to get a conviction i would assume the officer had to prove intent to drive in court . unless you were sat in the driving seat keys in ignition with the motor running and booze . there wouldent be many truckers left driving if the in charge rule was perused . but next morning . cop car half a mile down road in wait ,now then different story .
> 
> should be ok in south wales though .our local pubs car parks are jam packed with cars . for hours, and empty when closing time comes round and you never see a cop car except out side kebab shops that is . mind you here its always pissing it down and i don't think they like getting wet that much .



The charge isn't drink-drive, it would be drunk in charge - and you can be done for that even if you aren't in the vehicle! But I stress again, although it is technically possible (even on a campsite in Northern Ireland!) the reality is that no policeman is going to bother.........................unless you annoy him, of course! :wave:


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## sparrks (Jan 4, 2015)

I would guess that someone staggering back to their MH would run a much higher risk of being breathalysed than someone over the limit but in control of their actions. Would you want to risk a drunk several times over the limit possibly getting behind the wheel.


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## delicagirl (Jan 4, 2015)

kenspain said:


> My son has just got in from his work and i asked him what he would do if they saw you parked up for the night and having a drink in you motor. He said he would ask for a small G and T with ice please :wave: so there you go.




is he a copper or just a sociable  passer-by in this scenario ??


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## Deleted member 775 (Jan 4, 2015)

delicagirl said:


> is he a copper or just a sociable  passer-by in this scenario ??



asking for a small g&t would leave me to think he is a cop .


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## alcam (Jan 4, 2015)

> The law probably needs some amendments to bring it up to date. Another matter is that the Act contains a provision that makes roads within an airport run by the British Airports Authority subject to the Act. BAA no longer exists, of course, having been privatised (ironically, in 1986 - before the Road Traffic Act) and now known better as Heathrow Airport Holdings.  In the meantime we can rely on the good sense of the police to use their discretion.



Utterly baffling . Either you are a retired monty python scriptwriter or you are stone mad


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## n brown (Jan 4, 2015)

alcam said:


> Utterly baffling . Either you are a retired monty python scriptwriter or you are stone mad


  i missed something here- what's mad about it ?


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## izwozral (Jan 5, 2015)

I didn't understand that either!


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## Deleted member 775 (Jan 5, 2015)

alcam said:


> Utterly baffling . Either you are a retired monty python scriptwriter or you are stone mad



and now for something completely different


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## Obanboy666 (Jan 5, 2015)

alcam said:


> Utterly baffling . Either you are a retired monty python scriptwriter or you are stone mad



What an utterly bizarre statement to say the least, please explain if possible.


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## sparrks (Jan 5, 2015)

Maybe the effects of too much alcohol


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## trevskoda (Jan 5, 2015)

John H said:


> The charge isn't drink-drive, it would be drunk in charge - and you can be done for that even if you aren't in the vehicle! But I stress again, although it is technically possible (even on a campsite in Northern Ireland!) the reality is that no policeman is going to bother.........................unless you annoy him, of course! :wave:



yes john but if you come out of a pub drunk and are stoped by police and they do a pockets out job and find keys they have got you <drunk in charge> and they will as they have nothing much to do here now.


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## GRWXJR (Jan 5, 2015)

The general consensus seems to me to be that what most worry about is the interpretation and the pursuit of a booking by the individual officer.

Unfortunately (like most areas of life) you get reasonable, sensible and pragmatic officers, and you get the odd over-eager self-important git who lacks the necessary attitude and character the job really needs.  The concern is if you get one of the 2nd type, then the fact that he/she can "technically" find a way to get you in the book (& the fact that DD tends to be such a 'strict liability' (i.e. Guilty) offence if it got past the DPP) that some over-zealous target-hunting oaf could get you banned.

I know one policeman who is the 2nd type, and I'm certain he 'gets off' on nicking people given the slightest opportunity - the type that gives police a bad name.

Very recently my friend (who is 59 and in very, very poor health) was driving his car home from a hospital appt down the dual carriageway when he came across a lengthy queue doing 65mph in the inside lane.  No-one was overtaking.  Sticking to 70mph on his sat nav, he drifted past the long queue, and found the front car was a local police town car (i.e. not the pursuit stuff, just a run-around with blue lights).  As he wasn't speeding, he drifted past and carried on.

He got glared at by the very young male ACPO who was alone in the police car as he overtook it, and then this ACPO followed him home, and right into his driveway.  He then got out and verbally accosted my friend, accusing him of speeding!

Thankfully said friend is no fool and he told this ACPO that he had no calibrated speedo in a town car (so had no means to check or qualify his speed), and as an ACPO was not empowered to book him anyway, and that this kid could damn well get off his property before he chose to call a superior and lodge a complaint (and then walked off into the house and left the little turd stood there wordlessly).

I've seen this little ar$e in the village as well, getting way too big for his boots and clearly looking hard for any excuse to throw his weight about.  Chances are high that this ACPO will become an Officer for real, instead of a plastic imitation - and won't he be a little gem!

So... I don't think you can take too many precautions - cos petty little creeps like my 2 examples (hopefully) may be a small percentage of officers, but they ARE out there - and you only need to meet ONE.

(I have had a few when parked in a Pub Stop and once on the street outside a mate's house, but seats were turned, ignition key was hidden, the fuse under the bonnet for the fuel injection system was pulled to disable the engine, the bed was made up, screens were on the windows, and I had a breathalyser kit to hand.  Still no guarantee, but I made my case as strong as I could in case it was my bad luck to get one of these unsavoury uniformed little Hitlers knocking on the door).


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## Fazerloz (Jan 5, 2015)

Said with feeling.  Did you mean PCSO.


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 5, 2015)

Fazerloz said:


> Said with feeling.  Did you mean PCSO.



Plastic Plod would suffice.


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## Firefox (Jan 5, 2015)

Surely, among the vast collective experience of the many people wilding here, there must someone who has been approached and/or cautioned and/or charged by a police officer for this offence.

All I can seem to find is anecdotes about the man in the pub or friends of friends driving cars. Even the title of the thread does not refer to an actual incident, it is just a "what if" question. 

I'd suggest that if nobody here (and there is huge experience here going back many many years) has ever been questioned or cautioned or charged by an officer while having had a couple to drink in their van (but clearly no intention of driving), then people drinking in vans must be pretty low on the police officer's radar. There must be some kind of reasoning to that.

Failing the experience of people here to demonstrate the CPS pursuing this charge successfully against themselves, or someone they know, using the living section of the van, can anyone provide any link to any case evidence of a successful prosecution against any motorhomer for this offence when using the living section of the van. There must be loads of examples for people in cars... but motorhomes when isolated from the wheel, and clearly not in a position to drive? 

I await the links/references to these cases. We can make further comments depending on the the number and strength of these links.


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## GRWXJR (Jan 5, 2015)

Firefox said:


> Surely, among the vast collective experience of the many people wilding here, there must someone who has been approached and/or cautioned and/or charged by a police officer for this offence.
> 
> All I can seem to find is anecdotes about the man in the pub or friends of friends driving cars. Even the title of the thread does not refer to an actual incident, it is just a "what if" question.
> 
> ...



Ok and its a fair point.  But I'm also sure that none of us want to be a test case either!  As it stands (without a precedent that any of us knows of) the Law seems to provide scope for a person over-the-limit and having a MH or Campervan to stay in to be Charged with Drunk-In-Charge if they do so.  Therefore there is an unqualified RISK (as in there seems to be no definitive protection offered by the Law under such circumstances), and so it makes sense to try to mitigate that risk yes?  Discussing the risk and ways to minimise it seems reasonable to me (in the absence of a known Case setting a Precedent) -even if it is just speculation.

(Of course the easy answer is simply to never drink in the MH I suppose, but it seems many would prefer an alternate option!).

E.g. I was at the Caerphilly Meet in December with a lot (30+???) of vans in a Pub Car Park - and most of those would have had a drink or 2.  Theoretically every single driver who'd had more than a pint COULD have been booked and dragged off down the Station, then cautioned for being Drunk-In-Charge, as the Law provides the mechanism for the Police to attempt to do so.  Even if unsuccessful, I'd prefer to reduce the chances of that being even CONSIDERED by an Officer to as close to nil as I could.


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## Firefox (Jan 5, 2015)

Discussing mitigating the risk is good... 

But I'm still awaiting links to the successful and/or attempted prosecutions for this offence as relates to using the living section of a motorhome.

There must be some website where the data for prosecutions (in general terms) is available...


PS At Caerphilly, the landlord could also been done for letting using his land be used for camping (1960 Cararavan Act allows only 1 van for up to 2 nights, not a rally). And if it was a rally using official certificate, or official permission for temp campsite,  was there 6m between vans as required by law? I'm not saying it was any different when I attended at Ribblehead either! Just shows we are all breaking laws all the time. Some things get the blind eye turned, some don't


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## n brown (Jan 5, 2015)

i have been inebriated ,to some extent,in my van many times in many places over many many years and don't think i've ever given this problem a thought. and i don't think i ever will .
 i don't think about a lot of things when i'm out and about- like being gassed-attacked by axe wielding psychopaths-Katy Hopkins pulling up next to me-  all these horrible things could happen in theory,but i won't be taking any special precautions- life's full of risk after all


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## Firefox (Jan 5, 2015)

I think the risk of Katy Hopkins pulling up next to you is far more likely than being done DIC in living section of van!

Especially if she was in a foul mood seeking some self-serving publicity, which seems to be most days of the year


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## K9d (Jan 5, 2015)

Drunk in charge, gas attacks, angry badgers non of these things bother me, but Katy Hopkins that has got me really worried, fortunately I have a solution, I shall pack a spade to make disposing of the body easier.


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## alcam (Jan 5, 2015)

Obanboy666 said:


> What an utterly bizarre statement to say the least, please explain if possible.



So the complete irrelevance of the paragraph about airports and BAA etc escapes everybody ?


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## alcam (Jan 6, 2015)

The paragraph is clearly irrelevant . Unless of course the OP was  about getting steaming while parked on runway 2 at heathrow ? Nope just checked it wasn't


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## Firefox (Jan 6, 2015)

Since nobody has found a link to a case with a motorhomer being charged DIC, I have found this one with a motorist:

News & Star | News | Longtown man found asleep in car cleared of drink-driving


He was parked outside his daughter's house, on the street, sitting sleeping in the drivers seat, with the keys in the ignition, with the engine running, more than twice over the limit...

And he still got off.

Magistrates accepted his defence that he had no intention of driving until later the following day.

Does anyone care to supply a link where a motorhomer got prosecuted in the past 25 years in the UK when using the living accommodation and over the limit?


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## GRWXJR (Jan 6, 2015)

Firefox said:


> Since nobody has found a link to a case with a motorhomer being charged DIC, I have found this one with a motorist:
> 
> News & Star | News | Longtown man found asleep in car cleared of drink-driving
> 
> ...



Amazing result.  I've never found anyone to escape a ban for anything similar around where I live - ok I just flip through the local weekly rag periodically, so its far from a definitive answer... but I can say with some conviction (Har!) that if this chap had been in front of the Beak in this neck of the woods he'd be a Pedestrian for at least 12 months.

Its not been unknown for Policemen hereabouts to trawl around pub car parks looking for anyone inside or heading to a vehicle when its getting late.  Taking reg nos while the owners are inside and then sitting just out of sight in the Police Car in wait with a list of Reg's is also a fave, and stopping cars early on a sat or Sun am another common tactic.

They know being a rural area that DD used to be common (no taxis in the sticks and too damned far to want to walk home) and most likely there are still those that'll chance it - but under the circumstances of being sat in a drivers seat, over the DD limit and with the motor running you'd definitely be arrested and charged, and the chances of an aquittal very, VERY slim.


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## trevskoda (Jan 6, 2015)

a pal of mine 20 years back got pissed in local polytecnic the went out to sleep in back of his car ,was wakened at about 2 after midnight and dun by fuz ,drunk in charge ,keys in his pocket when serched and a one year ban.he has never had a drink since.


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## alcam (Jan 7, 2015)

Firefox said:


> Surely, among the vast collective experience of the many people wilding here, there must someone who has been approached and/or cautioned and/or charged by a police officer for this offence.
> 
> All I can seem to find is anecdotes about the man in the pub or friends of friends driving cars. Even the title of the thread does not refer to an actual incident, it is just a "what if" question.
> 
> ...



You will find many anecdotes on here [the man in the pub or friends of friends] not just about being DIC . I suspect most are fantasies


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## ManxChris (Jan 8, 2015)

My ignition key is different to my door keys on both my vans, that key is kept outside of the vehicle via a magnetic pad. I then only have the door keys on me. If questioned by the plod the convo would go something like 

"If you can start the van with these keys you can nick me, if not, you cannot, I simply have access to the vehicle's interior, not the controls".

This was backed up by asking the road policing unit over here if this was acceptable, which they confirmed it was.


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