# Whitby. No more



## landrovereditor

The link below gives access to the council meeting prohibiting overnight parking in Whitby car parks.



https://democracy.scarborough.gov.uk/documents/s81310/1876 Car Parking Orders - Whitby.pdf


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## Pauljenny

That's good news.
We won't have to go there and spend our money with them, ever again.
Maybe an official thankyou is in order?


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## GeoffL

This change is allegedly in accordance with the council Corporate Priorities, specifically Aim 2: Prosperous and Aim 3: Inclusive and Vibrant. I'm scratching my head about this as the banning of overnighting removes the chance of revenue from motorhomers who would otherwise spend at local establishment (i.e. seems contrary to Aim 2); and excludes a significant section of UK community (i.e. seems contrary to Aim 3). It's not like hotels or B&Bs will benefit because motorhomers won't use their services; they'll choose to spend their time and money elsewhere...


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## jagmanx

*We only go near to visit friends*

There are a few good places outside to overnight.
So Whitby itself oh no !
Outside maybe.


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## Obanboy666

landrovereditor said:


> The link below gives access to the council meeting prohibiting overnight parking in Whitby car parks.
> 
> 
> 
> https://democracy.scarborough.gov.uk/documents/s81310/1876 Car Parking Orders - Whitby.pdf



Nothing new, I got more or less the same info when I contacted Whitby & Scarborough 18 months ago after numerous members mentioned overnighting in the carpark behind the co op.
I just park up on the Moors and travel into Whitby early the next morning. Why park up in a carpark in town when you can park up in a scenic quiet location.


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## jacquigem

GeoffL said:


> This change is allegedly in accordance with the council Corporate Priorities, specifically Aim 2: Prosperous and Aim 3: Inclusive and Vibrant. I'm scratching my head about this as the banning of overnighting removes the chance of revenue from motorhomers who would otherwise spend at local establishment (i.e. seems contrary to Aim 2); and excludes a significant section of UK community (i.e. seems contrary to Aim 3). It's not like hotels or B&Bs will benefit because motorhomers won't use their services; they'll choose to spend their time and money elsewhere...



Yes the negativity is quite striking . Maybe one day we will see a post that says something like - in order to promote this income stream the council are providing motorhome facilitities here at a suitable price ......... but i wont hold my breath


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## mistericeman

jacquigem said:


> Yes the negativity is quite striking . Maybe one day we will see a post that says something like - in order to promote this income stream the council are providing motorhome facilitities here at a suitable price ......... but i wont hold my breath



Shortly followed by 3 pages of folks complaining its too expensive....


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## Floridaphill

GeoffL said:


> This change is allegedly in accordance with the council Corporate Priorities, specifically Aim 2: Prosperous and Aim 3: Inclusive and Vibrant. I'm scratching my head about this as the banning of overnighting removes the chance of revenue from motorhomers who would otherwise spend at local establishment (i.e. seems contrary to Aim 2); and excludes a significant section of UK community (i.e. seems contrary to Aim 3). It's not like hotels or B&Bs will benefit because motorhomers won't use their services; they'll choose to spend their time and money elsewhere...



Theres another way to view that, we live in a  tourist area in the west coast.
A motorhome often has, from my observation of 100's passing through our town, no more than two people on board.

Cars, people carriers or mini buses could have 5+ people and with no cook facilities in the vehicle would be much more likely to buy food, drinks and accommodation adding to the towns economy.

I have seen a number of discussions where folk want a carpark place overnight for as close to free as possible, so why would I think they'd not stock the van fridge and eat the van, maybe just go out for a drink in town ?
Our local supermarket carpark always had a good number of motorhomes, I wonder how many actually spend time buying things in town apart form fuel and food ?
I would be interested too see the data for where the moneys spent by motorhome owners if it exists ?

The issue of noise, waste etc  from the minority and the visual impact of sheer numbers of large, often white motorhomes on the sea front or in one place is always going to upset some locals and businesses.
The views and interests of locals need to be satisfied with action from the local councillors who vote for them so why should be surprised  !

Parking for motorhomes needs to carefully considered to avoid visual impact in my view.

We don't tend to stay in towns preferring the wild places or farm type campsites as we are fine off grid in our sliver micro camper, its more for economy rather than intended as stealth !

On the one weekend a year we do stay in a town, we buy our food at the festival all except breakfast.


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## Deleted member 34243

As I have mentioned previously the attendants at Whitby marina back have always let campers stay overnight and even point out the best places to park to avoid paying for two spots. Unfortunately just recently the car park has been absolutely stuffed with vans that are not so much parked as abandoned. A number of issues where cars have not been able to leave the car park for vans parked with their arses blocking the lanes. The marina front park is clearly marked marina (paying) users only. Completely blocked preventing legitimate users from accessing their boats.
There are a number of ‘sensible / considerate’ places to overnight but user laziness / selfishness has led to these proposals. Only ourselves to blame.
Proper wild campers will find places to stay in Whitby.


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## RichardHelen262

Floridaphill said:


> Theres another way to view that, we live in a  tourist area in the west coast.
> A motorhome often has, from my observation of 100's passing through our town, no more than two people on board.
> 
> Cars, people carriers or mini buses could have 5+ people and with no cook facilities in the vehicle would be much more likely to buy food, drinks and accommodation adding to the towns economy.
> 
> I have seen a number of discussions where folk want a carpark place overnight for as close to free as possible, so why would I think they'd not stock the van fridge and eat the van, maybe just go out for a drink in town ?
> Our local supermarket carpark always had a good number of motorhomes, I wonder how many actually spend time buying things in town apart form fuel and food ?
> I would be interested too see the data for where the moneys spent by motorhome owners if it exists ?
> 
> The issue of noise, waste etc  from the minority and the visual impact of sheer numbers of large, often white motorhomes on the sea front or in one place is always going to upset some locals and businesses.
> The views and interests of locals need to be satisfied with action from the local councillors who vote for them so why should be surprised  !
> 
> Parking for motorhomes needs to carefully considered to avoid visual impact in my view.
> 
> We don't tend to stay in towns preferring the wild places or farm type campsites as we are fine off grid in our sliver micro camper, its more for economy rather than intended as stealth !
> 
> On the one weekend a year we do stay in a town, we buy our food at the festival all except breakfast.



If motorhomes are so bad for the economy of a town then explain why France goes out of its way to encourage motorhomes to its towns and villages,
By providing places and facilities to stop, often for free, and when there is a charge it is often only a few euros


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## runnach

helen262 said:


> If motorhomes are so bad for the economy of a town then explain why France goes out of its way to encourage motorhomes to its towns and villages,
> By providing places and facilities to stop, often for free, and when there is a charge it is often only a few euros



Simple it was seen as an answer to a congestion problem if you trace the origins.

Re enhanced economies plenty of evidence here that people relish camping and spending as little as possible ,,,so it follows diddly squat paid in an area defeats some objective perhaps the motto should be to use the word "free" it seems a mantra to a lot ( stock up at Aldi a penny more expensive local)

Jeffmossy has organised another meet at Wills o nats I know it well ...I guarantee there will be people not visit the pub have a drink before we start on food !, On the cheap and a lot of the time freeloading.

Another thread deep pockets and short hands at Applewood ...If this is wildcamping I dis associate and you can stuff it ....by a long chalk not my definition nor the original idea of the site  

Channa


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## RichardHelen262

We nearly always spend money at a stopover in France so always add a little to the local economy, and the last time we went to Whitby we spent over £400 in Whitby and a couple of hundred in Pickering on the way Home, but if they feel my motorhome is too big and ugly to visit their town then that is fine,we will just spend money where we are welcome to visit


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## antiquesam

helen262 said:


> We nearly always spend money at a stopover in France so always add a little to the local economy, and the last time we went to Whitby we spent over £400 in Whitby and a couple of hundred in Pickering on the way Home, but if they feel my motorhome is too big and ugly to visit their town then that is fine,we will just spend money where we are welcome to visit



I fear you are a rare exception.


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## davep10000

In the states, virtually all Walmart stores actively encourage RV parking in their car parks - dont think we will see this policy adopted by the likes of Tescos though. (Not that I ever fancy a supermarket car park, but sometimes needs must..).


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## The laird

Shame as we love Whitby but so be it we won’t venture there even without the van !


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## Fazerloz

helen262 said:


> If motorhomes are so bad for the economy of a town then explain why France goes out of its way to encourage motorhomes to its towns and villages,
> By providing places and facilities to stop, often for free, and when there is a charge it is often only a few euros



I seem to have noticed quite a few French towns/villages closing them, whilst more and more Spanish ones are opening them.


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## jacquigem

Yes usually for a small fee which is surely the way to go. I feel true wildcamping takes place outside towns and even villages .


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## Pauljenny

jacquigem said:


> Yes usually for a small fee which is surely the way to go. I feel true wildcamping takes place outside towns and even villages .



I agree. 
But if a small town or village is prepared to offer dump and fill services, with or without overnight parking... We would be prepared to pay a couple of quid for the privilege.. And maybe spend a little while we're there.
But who REALLY  wants or needs to overnight in the middle of any of our coastal resorts, especially at peak times? Shows a lack of imagination.


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## peter palance

*parking*



landrovereditor said:


> The link below gives access to the council meeting prohibiting overnight parking in Whitby car parks.
> 
> 
> 
> https://democracy.scarborough.gov.uk/documents/s81310/1876 Car Parking Orders - Whitby.pdf



 oh the shops dont want your money then let them shut at the same time let the council stick there heads in the sand ? and do not abuse what we have
 i do not leave rubbish and the like but but i have seen some no no may not be us in general but take a look before you leave and then. pj.


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## yorkieowl

channa said:


> Simple it was seen as an answer to a congestion problem if you trace the origins.
> 
> Re enhanced economies plenty of evidence here that people relish camping and spending as little as possible ,,,so it follows diddly squat paid in an area defeats some objective perhaps the motto should be to use the word "free" it seems a mantra to a lot ( stock up at Aldi a penny more expensive local)
> 
> Jeffmossy has organised another meet at Wills o nats I know it well ...I guarantee there will be people not visit the pub have a drink before we start on food !, On the cheap and a lot of the time freeloading.
> 
> Another thread deep pockets and short hands at Applewood ...If this is wildcamping I dis associate and you can stuff it ....by a long chalk not my definition nor the original idea of the site
> 
> Channa



Don't know how you can comment on the Will o Nats Andy,   at the last meet EVERYBODY on the meet used the pub, quite a few of us getting more than a little tipsy, and as for eating in the pub as far as I am aware all except one person (who was unable to eat the meals due to health reasons), had a meal on the Sat night. A good time was had all who attended,  we (obviously) spent enough as we are more than welcome back, as proved by the new thread.


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## yorkieowl

helen262 said:


> If motorhomes are so bad for the economy of a town then explain why France goes out of its way to encourage motorhomes to its towns and villages,
> By providing places and facilities to stop, often for free, and when there is a charge it is often only a few euros



Because France sees the bigger picture, the French don't like paying for nothing  (a parking place), they don't mind paying a reasonable fee for waste disposal/loo emptying etc, especially when spending money,  and realise it's a win win to the local economies to provide Aires.


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## barryd

yorkieowl said:


> Because France sees the bigger picture, the French don't like paying for nothing  (a parking place), they don't mind paying a reasonable fee for waste disposal/loo emptying etc, especially when spending money,  and realise it's a win win to the local economies to provide Aires.



I think the French especially and most western European countries have a lot more respect and tolerance for motorhomers as well.  Here I think the perception is often very different.  We are considered by some as on a par with gypsies or that we cannot afford a proper holiday  and are just a nuisance to be looked down upon.   Ive noticed the attitude in places like Tourist information centres in France when you tell them your in a motorhome and its very welcoming and often with a feeling of awe and envy.  Just look at where the French sometimes site Aires.  Often near houses or within sight of them.  They dont seem bothered and are not territorial like we are.  I usually spend about £4K-£6K touring each year and 95% of that will be in Mainland Europe.  There are thousands like me I suspect.  Europes gain, UK's loss.

I do have a big issue as regards paying for parking though in the motorhome or paying much for it.  I think its because I always imagined it as giving me this fantastic freedom to go and travel and park where I like out in the wilds and not be tied to sites, car parks or regulations.  I would cringe at paying a tenner for parking but would think nothing of spending three or four times that in a local bar or on cheese at a local market.


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## Pauljenny

yorkieowl said:


> Don't know how you can comment on the Will o Nats Andy,   at the last meet EVERYBODY on the meet used the pub, quite a few of us getting more than a little tipsy, and as for eating in the pub as far as I am aware all except one person (who was unable to eat the meals due to health reasons), had a meal on the Sat night. A good time was had all who attended,  we (obviously) spent enough as we are more than welcome back, as proved by the new thread.



Don't worry, Andrew, we'll do our bit. If they've Taylor's Landlord on, I'll drink your share and Jenny's.
If it's any of the Theakston's Masham beers... I'm still boycotting them... They must be feeling the pinch, by now?


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## runnach

Pauljenny said:


> Don't worry, Andrew, we'll do our bit. If they've Taylor's Landlord on, I'll drink your share and Jenny's.
> If it's any of the Theakston's Masham beers... I'm still boycotting them... They must be feeling the pinch, by now?



Steady on ....I might be a day visitor yet ......|!!!

Quality control and all that :wacko:

Channa


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## alcam

helen262 said:


> We nearly always spend money at a stopover in France so always add a little to the local economy, and the last time we went to Whitby we spent over £400 in Whitby and a couple of hundred in Pickering on the way Home, but if they feel my motorhome is too big and ugly to visit their town then that is fine,we will just spend money where we are welcome to visit



Many Aires in France have nowhere you can spend money after 5pm . Not sure what benefit there can be to the local economy ?
As channa says it's more about handling motorhome traffic


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## runnach

Whitby no more  ......is a bit sensationalist plenty of places still in and around the town 

Channa


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## yorkieowl

barryd said:


> I do have a big issue as regards paying for parking though in the motorhome or paying much for it.  I think its because I always imagined it as giving me this fantastic freedom to go and travel and park where I like out in the wilds and not be tied to sites, car parks or regulations.  I would cringe at paying a tenner for parking but would think nothing of spending three or four times that in a local bar or on cheese at a local market.



I too have a big issue with paying for parking,  not just in the motorhome but when out in the car too, I avoid one local town when shopping unless absolutely necessary as I have to pay to park and go shopping, when I can go to the next and park for free. To me a no brainer and saves me a fortune every year,  it's the poor shop keepers losing out.


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## Compo

*whitby*

it may not be all down to motorhomes I was there last year in the town without m/h and there was probably 6 twin wheel caravans parked long ways along the station wall taking up probably 8 bays each complete with blow up boats and large red gas bottles some people take the mick !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Jeff G

Motorhomers are just as bad.Just come back from a visit to friends in Fleetwood.There has been a couple of m/h's parked side on taking up the entire disabled parking spaces.A side dinette doesn't allow you to park side on for an entire b/h weekend and preventing anyone else from a stop for a cuppa or such  imo


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## iampatman

Doubt we’ll see this sign in the UK anytime soon -




Pat


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## mistericeman

iampatman said:


> Doubt we’ll see this sign in the UK anytime soon -
> 
> View attachment 63812
> 
> Pat



Good.... Who wants to park in a Aldi/Lidl carpark.... 

Certainly not what I consider to be "Wildcamping"... 
Maybe there is a gap on the T'interweb for a new website called 

"Parking motorhomes for free no matter where it is as I refuse to pay " 

Or maybe there already is? ;-)


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## Floridaphill

Jeff G said:


> Motorhomers are just as bad.Just come back from a visit to friends in Fleetwood.There has been a couple of m/h's parked side on taking up the entire disabled parking spaces.A side dinette doesn't allow you to park side on for an entire b/h weekend and preventing anyone else from a stop for a cuppa or such  imo



They should be fined for that.
Parking across bays is some thing that I find very inconsiderate and gives all motorhomes a bad name.
Funnily enough it is mostly motorhomes and not vw size campervans.


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## Pauljenny

Very forward thinking, Pat. Pity they don't do hookups.. You could stay indefinitely.
Hope you have sorted your 12v ?


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## malagaoth

Must say when I heard about the overnight parking concession now offered in fleetwood I laughed out loud - Fleetwood is one of the most run down poverty struck places in Britain, who the hell would want to park there and watch all the poor people fighting over the food scraps the seagulls refused?


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## mistericeman

malagaoth said:


> Must say when I heard about the overnight parking concession now offered in fleetwood I laughed out loud - Fleetwood is one of the most run down poverty struck places in Britain, who the hell would want to park there and watch all the poor people fighting over the food scraps the seagulls refused?



Frankly I think pretty much the same about most of the 'popular' spots in our seaside resorts...


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## malagaoth

> Whitby has alwatys had a loathsome attitude to vistors, and particularly to the sort of visitors who can afford motorhomes



I dont think its a class thing  visitors can be a real pain in the bum to a place like Whitby, its built on the side of a cliff with steep narrow roads with sharp bends - foolish of the Georgian planners not to forsee that it would attract people in 7m long motorhomes really.

Overnight somewhere else and use the excellent park and ride


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## maureenandtom

malagaoth said:


> Must say when I heard about the overnight parking concession now offered in fleetwood I laughed out loud - Fleetwood is one of the most run down poverty struck places in Britain, who the hell would want to park there and watch all the poor people fighting over the food scraps the seagulls refused?



Well that puts motorhomers in their places - the ones who helped to organise it, I mean byu putting arguments to Wyre Borough Council when the council originally attempted to bar motorhomes.

I'd like to offer my support to any efforts you are making along similar lines but in places you do approve.


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## Byronic

mistericeman said:


> Good.... Who wants to park in a Aldi/Lidl carpark....
> 
> Certainly not what I consider to be "Wildcamping"...
> Maybe there is a gap on the T'interweb for a new website called
> 
> "Parking motorhomes for free no matter where it is as I refuse to pay "
> 
> Or maybe there already is? ;-)





Just depends, there have been instances when I'd rather pay €10 (should there
have been such a charge) on certain Lidl/Aldi carparks rather than the nearby official 
aire even if free. But since there isn't a charge it can be a win and at times a double win. 
€10 can buy a classy wine in Lidls, a widely respected prize winner at times.


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## runnach

Whitby and Filey fall under the scope of Scarborough Borough Council , and it will come as little surprise as to whom SBC favour. Only last week a councillor exempted from a meeting (for fear of not towing the line ) ...No explanation to the local voters how money is received and spent (classed as confidential) Monies going into the Harbour area "confidential" a council rotten to the core.

Furthermore Tom will know who, one of the councillors has direct interest in a camping site ..so let you imagine how that bodes for overnight camping / parking

Tourist prevention officers all of them. with distorted and self serving agendas. 

Channa


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## maureenandtom

Floridaphill said:


> ...
> I would be interested too see the data for where the moneys spent by motorhome owners if it exists ?
> 
> ....




An excellent point.  And there is some information if you care to look for it.   Very little for the UK though.  All of this has been published here at one time or another.

All this following is from quite a long time in the past and I've not updated my researches.   I'm, not even sure that I still have the information but it does exist.

There were two excellent Australian documents prepared by some specialist research companies for some Australian motohoming organisation and shared with Austalian Government Tourism Authorities.   Their findings were that motorhoming contributed millions of dollars to the Australian economy.    There was an Italian document with similar findings reproducing a speech by an Italian Tourism Minister.    I found references to a similar American document though not the document itself.  Probaly other documentation too.

The Australian document led to the setting up of Motorhme Friendly Towns (or some such thing) and the Italian Minister's speech led to the expansion of he aires system in Italy.   The American document led to the similarly named (so I might have confused them) Motorhome Friendly Towns in Florida – and probably in other States too.

All this sort of stuff can be found and some of us (John Thompson particularly) might still have it.  I can start you off with a couple of leads to begin with.   A European Survey of Motorhomers and their habits in my dropbox Dropbox - The european motorhomers-summary of Answers to International Survey.pdf

… and maybe more useful - a survey carried out towards the end of last year in Ireland.   Some of us might remember responding to a questionaire though I never heard of any published results.  The local authority doing the survey was Ards and North Down Borough Council.   The person collating the information was laura.watson@ardsandnorthdown.gov.uk  and if you email her she might be able to tell you if the council published the result


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## runnach

maureenandtom said:


> An excellent point.  And there is some information if you care to look for it.   Very little for the UK though.  All of this has been published here at one time or another.
> 
> All this following is from quite a long time in the past and I've not updated my researches.   I'm, not even sure that I still have the information but it does exist.
> 
> There were two excellent Australian documents prepared by some specialist research companies for some Australian motohoming organisation and shared with Austalian Government Tourism Authorities.   Their findings were that motorhoming contributed millions of dollars to the Australian economy.    There was an Italian document with similar findings reproducing a speech by an Italian Tourism Minister.    I found references to a similar American document though not the document itself.  Probaly other documentation too.
> 
> The Australian document led to the setting up of Motorhme Friendly Towns (or some such thing) and the Italian Minister's speech led to the expansion of he aires system in Italy.   The American document led to the similarly named (so I might have confused them) Motorhome Friendly Towns in Florida – and probably in other States too.
> 
> All this sort of stuff can be found and some of us (John Thompson particularly) might still have it.  I can start you off with a couple of leads to begin with.   A European Survey of Motorhomers and their habits in my dropbox Dropbox - The european motorhomers-summary of Answers to International Survey.pdf
> 
> … and maybe more useful - a survey carried out towards the end of last year in Ireland.   Some of us might remember responding to a questionaire though I never heard of any published results.  The local authority doing the survey was Ards and North Down Borough Council.   The person collating the information was laura.watson@ardsandnorthdown.gov.uk  and if you email her she might be able to tell you if the council published the result


 Splitting it down to spend by "wilders" and those on sites I imagine problematic.

Lots of people insist on comparing with France particularly but it is a totally different set up. Landmass is far larger (5 x ?) similar native population and not least a different structure to how they run their economy with local Mairees having a great say

As a nation and perhaps relevant is the camping market is the second largest in the world after the United States,  Perhaps and supposition on my part the value overall in respect of tourism is given a far greater focus than in the UK

That is not to say vast improvements couldn't be made here, but I don't think we are nor can compare apples with apples

Channa


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## maureenandtom

This is the sort of survey I got interested in - and passed to several local authorities.    Maybe somebody could start here and find the surveys referred to.   And start the job of lobbying local government again.

Recreational Vehicle (RV) Travellers – Social and Market Research/Tourism

A quote.

_The Campervan and Motorhome Club of Australia (CMCA) needed a more in-depth understanding of how RV Travellers use non-commercial accommodation (rest areas, free camping areas, etc) when making extended journeys. The organisation had been lobbying local, State and Federal governments to gain support for the development of more non-commercial accommodation for its members and those of affiliated organisations to meet massive increases in demand. H*owever, it had run into an aggressive counter campaign from representatives of Caravan Parks that had been accepted on face value by politicia*ns. Balfour Consulting was asked to research users of non-commercial accommodation to understand who they are, their travel patterns, their attitudes and requirements regarding commercial and non-commercial accommodation and overall spending patterns._

Maybe the Ards and North Down Survey, if we can get access to it, will come up with figures.  I remember that the original Australian survey went into much depth.   No of nights away, amount spent - all the sort of thing


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## antiquesam

I can only go by the impression I get from reading this forum and things on Facebook, but I think the motor caravan community seems to fall into two groups. One group are basically caravanners who have upgraded to one with an engine. These people do as they always have and turn up at a site for the duration. They tow a car, or have bikes to travel around or use their bus pass. The other group use the van to tour. A large proportion of these people seem to work on the premiss that having paid for the van then nothing else should be spent. Food is stockpiled from home and overnighting must be free. Should someone expect a fiver for this then they expect all the facilities, and will still try to avoid paying even it it means moving on before dawn.
This is how I see some comments and can only imagine the non vanners think worse of us. 
I'm sure I'll be unpopular for this post, but I read quite a bit on the net and get quite depressed by some attitudes.


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## Pauljenny

antiquesam said:


> I can only go by the impression I get from reading this forum and things on Facebook, but I think the motor caravan community seems to fall into two groups. One group are basically caravanners who have upgraded to one with an engine. These people do as they always have and turn up at a site for the duration. They tow a car, or have bikes to travel around or use their bus pass. The other group use the van to tour. A large proportion of these people seem to work on the premiss that having paid for the van then nothing else should be spent. Food is stockpiled from home and overnighting must be free. Should someone expect a fiver for this then they expect all the facilities, and will still try to avoid paying even it it means moving on before dawn.
> This is how I see some comments and can only imagine the non vanners think worse of us.
> I'm sure I'll be unpopular for this post, but I read quite a bit on the net and get quite depressed by some attitudes.



Aw, come on, they can't All be from Yorkshire !
I'll have owt for nowt.
But if it costs owt.... I'll take nowt.


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## Deleted member 9849

antiquesam said:


> I can only go by the impression I get from reading this forum and things on Facebook, but I think the motor caravan community seems to fall into two groups. One group are basically caravanners who have upgraded to one with an engine. These people do as they always have and turn up at a site for the duration. They tow a car, or have bikes to travel around or use their bus pass. The other group use the van to tour. A large proportion of these people seem to work on the premiss that having paid for the van then nothing else should be spent. Food is stockpiled from home and overnighting must be free. Should someone expect a fiver for this then they expect all the facilities, and will still try to avoid paying even it it means moving on before dawn.
> This is how I see some comments and can only imagine the non vanners think worse of us.
> I'm sure I'll be unpopular for this post, but I read quite a bit on the net and get quite depressed by some attitudes.



An interesting analogy between 2 types of motorhomer that made me think.I have bikes in the motorhome garage and do use public transport for local journeys when pitched up on a site so would fall into the first category.However,I sometimes use the van for touring and wild camping as described in the second category so could be classed as being in both categories.

It mostly depends on where we are as to how we use the truck but the best point is that the van is versatile and fitted with solar and a large leisure battery bank for wild camping as well so can be used either way.


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## malagaoth

> Well that puts motorhomers in their places - the ones who helped to organise it, I mean



I was in Fleetwood last year  - the wife wanted to visit the 'Freeport' and market, whilst she engaged in retail therapy I took a walk around the town with the dog, never again, it is the most run down god forsaken hole I have ever vistied there is quite literally nothing there aside from desolation and destitution - even Wetherspoons was run down (equal only to that in Stoke on Trent).

the town reminded me of nothing more than the "Dualing Bangos" scene in Endurance - only with worse teeth

From what I saw the best thing in Fleetwood was the tram out of it - and it goes to Blackpool!


----------



## mistericeman

malagaoth said:


> I was in Fleetwood last year  - the wife wanted to visit the 'Freeport' and market, whilst she engaged in retail therapy I took a walk around the town with the dog, never again, it is the most run down god forsaken hole I have ever vistied there is quite literally nothing there aside from desolation and destitution - even Wetherspoons was run down (equal only to that in Stoke on Trent).
> 
> the town reminded me of nothing more than the "Dualing Bangos" scene in Endurance - only with worse teeth
> 
> From what I saw the best thing in Fleetwood was the tram out of it - and it goes to Blackpool!




You have obviously not been to Morecombe....


----------



## Obanboy666

wakk44 said:


> An interesting analogy between 2 types of motorhomer that made me think.I have bikes in the motorhome garage and do use public transport for local journeys when pitched up on a site so would fall into the first category.However,I sometimes use the van for touring and wild camping as described in the second category so could be classed as being in both categories.
> 
> It mostly depends on where we are as to how we use the truck but the best point is that the van is versatile and fitted with solar and a large leisure battery bank for wild camping as well so can be used either way.



I do similiar. Infact I cannot remember the last trip I had away which is every 2 weeks when I didn’t do sites and wilding. I’m sat on a CS site at present. Quiet, scenic, cheap and I can leave my van knowing it will be there on my return.


----------



## maureenandtom

malagaoth said:


> I was in Fleetwood last year  - the wife wanted to visit the 'Freeport' and market, whilst she engaged in retail therapy I took a walk around the town with the dog, never again, it is the most run down god forsaken hole I have ever vistied there is quite literally nothing there aside from desolation and destitution - even Wetherspoons was run down (equal only to that in Stoke on Trent).
> 
> the town reminded me of nothing more than the "Dualing Bangos" scene in Endurance - only with worse teeth
> 
> From what I saw the best thing in Fleetwood was the tram out of it - and it goes to Blackpool!



What an opportunity.   How wonderful it would be if we all started to use Fleetwood and we turned it back into a tourist attraction.

Actually … you've put your finger on something that could be important.  While discussions were going on with Wyre Borough Council there was one of those short Breakfast TV clips about the decline in Fleetwood's fortunes.  I know this TV report was brought into the discussion but I've no idea if it had an influence.  It may well have done.  I think a copy was made and sent to the council.

Around the same time there were more of these reports.  I remember two.  One was about Skegness where motorhomes had already been banned and I know that Skegness council was told about the clip – and I think were forwarded a copy of it.   I think the council did not respond.    There was a similar story about Great Yarmouth but I don't think anyone did anything about it – certainly I didn't.

It would be interesting to know if the Fleetwood report had any influence on the council and  if the introduction of a one year permitted parking trial had any effect on business in the vicinity.  In Blackpool there was a council report that anti-socila behaviou in the vicintiy of the permitted parking place had reduced - another bonus.    If we've had any effect on Fleetwood then it would be a great bonus if we could show it.




Obanboy666 said:


> I do similiar. Infact I cannot remember the last trip I had away which is every 2 weeks when I didn’t do sites and wilding. I’m sat on a CS site at present. Quiet, scenic, cheap and I can leave my van knowing it will be there on my return.



 I still haven't replaced my stolen motorhome after nearly a year without.    I'm beginning think my motorhome days are over  - after 30 years.   I think UK motorhoming has changed.    Obanboy's post, I think, sees the future.  He wants to be on  a site – and I think that is the future.  My sort of motorhoming, in the UK, is dying.   Wild camping like I knew it will soon be something in the past.  Already it is very much in the past in many places.


----------



## malagaoth

> You have obviously not been to Morecombe



Oh indeed I have - it was a Good Friday many years ago and it was closed.

We called in because we were coming home on the Heysham ferry (yes it was that long ago) and thought a couple of hours at what I remembered to be a 'mini Blackpool' would divert the kids for a while - it didnt, literally everything was closed we ended up in the cinema I havent been back since.

Even Whitby which is undeniably better than Blackpool/Fleetwood or Morcambe I wouldnt want to spend a night there, I mean you walk along the front, take a stroll up to the abbey to sharpen the appetite have your fish and chips.....and then what?


----------



## Canalsman

maureenandtom said:


> My sort of motorhoming, in the UK, is dying.   Wild camping like I knew it will soon be something in the past.  Already it is very much in the past in many places.



I have to disagree.

Eight years I've been wilding in the UK and in my view, other than additional restrictions in predominantly urban areas, it's as pleasant, indeed often delightful, as it was in 2010


----------



## maureenandtom

POI Admin said:


> I have to disagree.
> 
> Eight years I've been wilding in the UK and in my view, other than additional restrictions in predominantly urban areas, it's as pleasant, indeed often delightful, as it was in 2010



and I hope you're right.   Undeniably, though, i seems to me that nearly every week we hear of another place denied us.   I think that now banning is very much easier and less expensive for councils than it was ...

I hope you're right.


----------



## malagaoth

> In Blackpool there was a council report that anti-socila behaviou in the vicintiy of the permitted parking place had reduced - another bonus. If we've had any effect on Fleetwood then it would be a great bonus if we could show it.



Let me get this right, someone who doesnt have a motorhome because it was stolen is encouraging others to park their valuable motorhomes in high crime /disorder areas in the hope of reducing the rate of crime/public disorder?

you arent persuading me!


----------



## maureenandtom

malagaoth said:


> Let me get this right, someone who doesnt have a motorhome because it was stolen is encouraging others to park their valuable motorhomes in high crime /disorder areas in the hope of reducing the rate of crime/public disorder?
> 
> you arent persuading me!



Sorry about that


----------



## maureenandtom

Actually,

My motorhome wasn't stolen from such a place.  It was stolen from my driveway - like, it isreported, most motorhome thefts are.  

I'll still carry on trying to get councils to introduce permitted parking places - if I get another motorhome, that is.


----------



## Canalsman

maureenandtom said:


> and I hope you're right.   Undeniably, though, i seems to me that nearly every week we hear of another place denied us.   I think that now banning is very much easier and less expensive for councils than it was ...
> 
> I hope you're right.



I created the POI database in 2010 and I've been updating it ever since, so I have a pretty good view on how things have altered in the UK.


----------



## antiquesam

wakk44 said:


> An interesting analogy between 2 types of motorhomer that made me think.I have bikes in the motorhome garage and do use public transport for local journeys when pitched up on a site so would fall into the first category.However,I sometimes use the van for touring and wild camping as described in the second category so could be classed as being in both categories.
> 
> It mostly depends on where we are as to how we use the truck but the best point is that the van is versatile and fitted with solar and a large leisure battery bank for wild camping as well so can be used either way.



I'm sure there are people who cross over between groups, as I do, but it seems the majority seem stuck in one or the other group, perhaps with the odd visit to a site to dump and fill. I've talked to people in sites who show absolute horror at the thought of not being neatly lined up on site with the ablutions and the ability to empty the cassette every morning. The other side are the ones we all read, boasting about never setting foot on a site in their lives, staying in pub car parks and not having a drink and sneaking into Morrisons with their toilet cassette in a rucksack. Surely the happy medium that you adopt is the answer.


----------



## Obanboy666

maureenandtom said:


> Obanboy's post, I think, sees the future.  He wants to be on  a site – and I think that is the future.  My sort of motorhoming, in the UK, is dying.   Wild camping like I knew it will soon be something in the past.  Already it is very much in the past in many places.



No, I don’t always want to be on a site, what I tend to do and I reckon plenty of other members do the same or similiar is 2/3/4 days wilding then 1 or 2 nights on a campsite to dump waste use the facilities etc, predominantly CS sites which are cheap and cheerful.
I’m not the type of person to hide my toilet cassette in a rucksack or similiar and sneak into public toilets or arse on looking for water apart from when I visit the  Shieldaig camping field where I always leave a fiver after filling up.
I have never parked up in a town and never will apart from the rare occasion i overnight at the theatre by the lake in Keswick.
I have a handful of wilding spots I use in northern England but most of my wilding is done in Scotland where I visit at least 6 times a year.


----------



## runnach

malagaoth said:


> Oh indeed I have - it was a Good Friday many years ago and it was closed.
> 
> We called in because we were coming home on the Heysham ferry (yes it was that long ago) and thought a couple of hours at what I remembered to be a 'mini Blackpool' would divert the kids for a while - it didnt, literally everything was closed we ended up in the cinema I havent been back since.
> 
> Even Whitby which is undeniably better than Blackpool/Fleetwood or Morcambe I wouldnt want to spend a night there, I mean you walk along the front, take a stroll up to the abbey to sharpen the appetite have your fish and chips.....and then what?



Is that a serious question ? or are you becoming one of the sheeple that wants spoon feeding but at the same time wants it for nowt ....If you cant find something to do in Whitby I genuinely feel sorry for you ...I overestimated you 

Channa


----------



## malagaoth

> Is that a serious question ?



Im afraid that it is, I cant find anything in Whitby to entertain me for more than a day.

I could sit and look at the view - but I could do that anywhere
I could visit the most expensive wetherspoons in Britain (excluding airports)

But no,for me Whitby is a peasant place for an afternoon - maybe a day if its particularly pleasant weather


----------



## antiquesam

I have to confess that, despite preferring to be out in the sticks, it is nice to be able to walk to the chippie and have a pint or two before turning in, but the thought of parking overnight on the side of the road doesn't really appeal. Having said that I have parked under the castle in Arundel before now. The exception to my rule I suppose.


----------



## runnach

malagaoth said:


> Im afraid that it is, I cant find anything in Whitby to entertain me for more than a day.
> 
> I could sit and look at the view - but I could do that anywhere
> I could visit the most expensive wetherspoons in Britain (excluding airports)
> 
> But no,for me Whitby is a peasant place for an afternoon - maybe a day if its particularly pleasant weather



Best stop away then ,,,,you had children crabbing off the pier or harbour,  boat trips south are the better ones an array of seabirds....walk on the beach looking for jet or ammonites ,,,a visit to Pannet gallery a visit to the old smokehouse ....What influenced Bram Stokers Dracula , What did Captain Cook do ? discovered Australia a walk up the ESK better walk between Whitby and Robin Hoods bay one of the best walks in the world full of little secrets ...regular trips on th eNorth Yorks railway stop off at Goathland ......yes nowt to do 

Channa


----------



## Deleted member 9849

malagaoth said:


> Im afraid that it is, I cant find anything in Whitby to entertain me for more than a day.
> 
> I could sit and look at the view - but I could do that anywhere
> I could visit the most expensive wetherspoons in Britain (excluding airports)
> 
> But no,for me Whitby is a peasant place for an afternoon - maybe a day if its particularly pleasant weather



Vive la difference.

Whitby is one of our favourite places to visit in the UK.I just wish they would cater for motorhomers,not all of us want to stay on the expensive local camp sites.


----------



## malagaoth

wondering how many hours you while away at the old smoke house?  and it is any better in your opinion than the plethora of "old smoke houses" elsewhere?

As for Mssrs Stoker and Cook whats to see?

Interesting that one of your "things to do in whitby"  is to get a train out of whitby!

Im just saying that if I wanted to see Goathland I wouldnt look for it in Whitby


----------



## groyne

hairydog said:


> That's not how it works in Whitby. Yes the cars do have three or four people in them, but they only travel from Teeside, spend almost no money and leave mountains of litter.



It's because the local councils only empty the bins every two weeks. So the weeks in between we load up the car and set off for Whitby.

What a load of shyte, you'll hear as many if not more, North/East/West Yorkshire accents and other foreigners*  in Whitby as you will Teessiders (by the way you spell Teesside with a double s).


* Those that don't come from Yorkshire.


----------



## antiquesam

When we lived in the North West I loved to go to Whitby, with its fishing fleet and fishing community with the odd tripper thrown in. Having lived on the south coast for many years we returned a few years ago and were bitterly disappointed. Gone is the fishing community replaced by the kiss me quick hat sellers and all the cottages given over to holiday lets. Just goes to show you should live with your memories and find new places to tickle the senses.
I should say this isn't the only place to have this happen to me.


----------



## mistericeman

antiquesam said:


> When we lived in the North West I loved to go to Whitby, with its fishing fleet and fishing community with the odd tripper thrown in. Having lived on the south coast for many years we returned a few years ago and were bitterly disappointed. Gone is the fishing community replaced by the kiss me quick hat sellers and all the cottages given over to holiday lets. Just goes to show you should live with your memories and find new places to tickle the senses.
> I should say this isn't the only place to have this happen to me.



A common thing with most of our 'popular resorts'.....

I suspect that's why If we head for the coast we tend to search out the less populated bits.... 
Certainly won't catch us parked up on some carpark in the middle of whitby/scarborough/blackpool/(definitely NOT Morecombe) etc etc.....

Plenty of places to park up away from the bedlam.


----------



## maureenandtom

mistericeman said:


> A common thing with most of our 'popular resorts'.....
> 
> I suspect that's why If we head for the coast we tend to search out the less populated bits....
> Certainly won't catch us parked up on some carpark in the middle of whitby/scarborough/blackpool/(definitely NOT Morecombe) etc etc.....
> 
> *Plenty of places to park up away from the bedlam.*



... but not as many as there were.   And fewer all the time.


----------



## mistericeman

maureenandtom said:


> ... but not as many as there were.   And fewer all the time.



Possibly true as far as 'publicised' spots are concerned.... However I haven't struggled using Mk1 map and Google earth so far.... 
Biggest problem seems to be the spreading of spots via facebook/T'interweb... 
Soon as somewhere is published if its a 'prime' spot it gets flooded and often ruined/gated/signed etc.


----------



## Pauljenny

I understand that the reserved parking spaces at Lidl are to make it easier for motorhomers to park and shop and not have to squeeze into the smaller car parking spaces... Especially as the Southern ones are fitting sunshades, 2.8 m high.
It's not their intention to provide overnight accommodation.
But....


----------



## malagaoth

some suggestions as to why Whitby doesnt want motorhomers

from Whitby

















Scarbrorough






Wales






hope the images load if not please use the links - its people with entitlement complexes ripping the 4rse clean out of it


----------



## mickymost

Floridaphill said:


> Theres another way to view that, we live in a  tourist area in the west coast.
> A motorhome often has, from my observation of 100's passing through our town, no more than two people on board.
> 
> Cars, people carriers or mini buses could have 5+ people and with no cook facilities in the vehicle would be much more likely to buy food, drinks and accommodation adding to the towns economy.
> 
> I have seen a number of discussions where folk want a carpark place overnight for as close to free as possible, so why would I think they'd not stock the van fridge and eat the van, maybe just go out for a drink in town ?
> Our local supermarket carpark always had a good number of motorhomes, I wonder how many actually spend time buying things in town apart form fuel and food ?
> I would be interested too see the data for where the moneys spent by motorhome owners if it exists ?
> 
> The issue of noise, waste etc  from the minority and the visual impact of sheer numbers of large, often white motorhomes on the sea front or in one place is always going to upset some locals and businesses.
> The views and interests of locals need to be satisfied with action from the local councillors who vote for them so why should be surprised  !
> 
> Parking for motorhomes needs to carefully considered to avoid visual impact in my view.
> 
> We don't tend to stay in towns preferring the wild places or farm type campsites as we are fine off grid in our sliver micro camper, its more for economy rather than intended as stealth !
> 
> On the one weekend a year we do stay in a town, we buy our food at the festival all except breakfast.



And most local councillors have been proved to own local caravan sites so are acting in their own interests but motor home owners won't be forced into using them.

Regards mike


----------



## maureenandtom

I have a solution.  Somewhere there is parking where these people can be displaced to.   A park and ride maybe.   I think Scarborough Borough Council does have a park and ride which is locked at night.   Or used to,  Somewhere there is parking.   

A long time ago, ten or more years maybe, we were talking about Scarborough on this site, something like these views were expressed and I showed how this identical problem was arranged in what had been a favourite part of France – for me.   Capbreton.   I was ridiculed.  Capbreton and Scarborough – no comparison.  Well, that's opinion but what was certainly comparable was the problem.  Scarborough responded with a ban.  Capbreton displaced the parking elsewhere and, probably many of us are familiar with the aire there.   It began as very much smaller than it is now and expanded over the years.   

The aire wasn't always there.  It only came into use from the mid 1990s.   Prior to that motorhomes parked on the Promenade.   And it didn't look too different from the pictures above.

Here's what it looks like now.   From streetview a few minutes ago.



That pedestrian area on the right was continuous parking.   Not only campervans but cars too.   Ideal place – everybody loved it.    Except the council.

So what the council did was find space – and it was near residential areas – and made it into an aire.   Twenty minutes walk from town.   I think it was already in use as a car park for the beach.  When I first used it in the 1990s cars used it too.  I think it has evolved into parking for motorhomes only but it's a long time since I've been there and I'm not sure.

Now = well, now there is no parking on the front.  And no problem.  Not to the council.  Not to residents and not to motorhomers.  It was originally discriminatory - only motrhomes were banned.  Now it seems there is equality and all parking is prohibited.





An elegant solution suiting everybody.   It can be done.


----------



## runnach

I seem to remember Scarborough were considering an "aire " type of arrangement in Seamer ...miles away from any of the attractions and people thought the idea great

You can bet your last dollar that anywhere else in the town became out of bounds another important distinction between the French attitudes and our own authorities 

Thank goodness it didn't happen , like turkeys voting for Christmas 

People couldn't see as far as that still some folk want to be parked up with 101 other people I don't ...and on that basis I would appreciate people winding their neck in asking for something others haven't been consulted on and total disregard for the consequences,

Channa


----------



## antiquesam

mickymost said:


> And most local councillors have been proved to own local caravan sites so are acting in their own interests but motor home owners won't be forced into using them.
> 
> Regards mike



That seems a very broad statement. Surely no council area has that many caravan sites. I agree that the views of a caravan site owner, who pays substantial sums in rates, is going to have more influence on the views of a councillor than some fly by night in a gin palace on wheels.


----------



## runnach

antiquesam said:


> That seems a very broad statement. Surely no council area has that many caravan sites. I agree that the views of a caravan site owner, who pays substantial sums in rates, is going to have more influence on the views of a councillor than some fly by night in a gin palace on wheels.



Furthermore places like Scarborough often the larger sites are owned by people such as Park Resorts, Haven etc but they provide tangible employment opportunity for local people who are councillors first responsibility......Motorhomes come way down the list 

Channa


----------



## Pauljenny

Having read the varied and well reasoned posts, we have come to  the conclusion that we're happy to avoid most of the seaside resort towns . If we're forced to visit, we'd park up outside and use public transport.
The run down suburbs, troglodyte inhabitants and mindless visitors hold no attraction for us to be crammed into their centres.
Scarborough council are doing us a favour.
We are founder members of S.O.D.D.E.M....

Society of Disgruntled Doddery Elderly Motorhomers..
Who will join us?


----------



## runnach

Liberated Exiled Enigmatic Doddery Sorts .....affiliated Paul ? oh look spells Leeds 

Channa


----------



## mickymost

antiquesam said:


> That seems a very broad statement. Surely no council area has that many caravan sites. I agree that the views of a caravan site owner, who pays substantial sums in rates, is going to have more influence on the views of a councillor than some fly by night in a gin palace on wheels.



Sadly this is true I live in Skegness and the same applies here, And what I am saying is that the councillors own the caravan sites not the owners influencing the councillors as you state in your post you didnt read my post correctly,and yes there are millions of caravan sites here in Skegness and local councillors have a finger in all the pies..They are against motorhome parking here as well for the same reasons.They want and think banning Motorhomes/campervans from using car parks etc will pressure us to use their sites which in truth is not going to happen.And btw gin palace on wheels thats a bit harsh...

regards Mike


----------



## runnach

mickymost said:


> Sadly this is true I live in Skegness and the same applies here, And what I am saying is that the councillors own the caravan sites not the owners influencing the councillors as you state in your post you misunderstood me on that point,and yes there are millions of caravan sites here in Skegness and local councillors have a finger in all the pies..They are against motorhome parking here as well for the same reasons.They want and think banning Motorhomes/campervans from using car parks etc will pressure us to use their sites which in truth is not going to happen.And btw gin palace on wheels thats a bit harsh...
> 
> regards Mike



Monday mornings Look North ran an article only said East lincs but tightening up on parking  ,,,,,showed a bit of footage of a few vans on a beach so where not sure

Skegness is a bit of an unusual location in the respect a lot of statics ( most in the country) and for a couple of years now council on a mission to flush out full timers living on Holiday parks therefore not paying council tax and putting pressure on local services....Similar situation in North Wales Towyn area local MP on a mission 

Channa


----------



## antiquesam

*Gin palace on wheels*

Mickymost thinks my description is harsh, but if you had a vehicle, with a starting price of £40,000 new, going to in excess of £100,000, parked up near you wouldn't you compare it to those motor yachts tethered to harbours all over the coast line, and wonder why they don't spend some of their wealth leaving them in the proper place, because I think that is how many see us. I should point out that my old crate is 23 years old, but people don't differentiate I'm afraid.


----------



## maureenandtom

channa said:


> I seem to remember Scarborough were considering an "aire " type of arrangement in Seamer ...miles away from any of the attractions and people thought the idea great
> 
> You can bet your last dollar that anywhere else in the town became out of bounds another important distinction between the French attitudes and our own authorities
> 
> Thank goodness it didn't happen , like turkeys voting for Christmas
> 
> People couldn't see as far as that still some folk want to be parked up with 101 other people I don't ...and on that basis I would appreciate people winding their neck in asking for something others haven't been consulted on and total disregard for the consequences,
> 
> Channa


You may be right about an aire at Seamer but I don't know about that one.   The ones I do have a memory about were to set up permitted overnight parking in five car parks under the jurisdiction of Scarborough Borough Council.   One of them in Whitby.  I, and others, were involved in the proposals.

Parking plans motor on - Whitby Gazette










It fell through because that decision, by full council is, under our democratic system, only a recommendation to the cabinet holder responsible for such matters.   The original cabinet holder was Councillor Andrew Backhouse who, contradictorily publicly expressed his pleasure at the decision (or recommendation) while at the same time, according to emails obtained under the FoI, was proposing bans on motorhome overnight parking.  

Andrew Backhouse owned, at that time, a caravan park which was, according to his register of interests, owned either by him or by his wife (at the time she was also a councillor) or by his parents.  It has since been sold – I guess at a better price because of the motorhome restrictions.  

His place as cabinet holder was taken by Councillor Penny Marsden whose first action was to decide on the recommendation made by the full council  for a trial one year permitted overnight parking.  She *thought *that the recommendation *probably *went against planning considerations and she refused the trial..

This, with other things, led to the eventual resignation of one SBC councillor and the passing of a motion of no confidence in Scarborough Council by Whitby Town Council.  Andrew and Penny were both implicated in the double dipping expenses scandal.  Both were alleged to have claimed duplicate allowances from the two councils they sat on.  They got paid twice for the same thing.

You've made it obvious that you're one of those opposing the setting up of aire type facilities and you have a very good reason – two  very good reasons.   The first is that if the council set up an aire then it might then reasonably think that we should use it and, 2 – that those of us wishing to set up aires have no mandate from quarter of a million motorhomers to attempt to do so.

That's right.   All attempts to set up cooperative organisations for advancing the nterests of motorhomers have failed.   So you have to go your way of not rocking any boats but I have to go my way of promoting aires too.

My personal feeling is that the only way to balance our freedoms is to go the continental way and try for the setting up of airs.  In every place where an aire has been set up – Canterbury, Lytham, Blackpool, North Devon and more (including Fleetwood?) it has been successful in that there are no complaints reported from any of those places.   Whether all motorhomers would use the aires I've mentioned – well, I don't know.   But most of us use aires abroad and pay lip service to the principle here.

I support the serting up of a cooperative organisation and obtain a collective mandate but attempts have always failed.  John Thompson's motorhome tourism organisation was the best attempt but it failed – lack of support.  As ever.


----------



## Pauljenny

That reinforces my final post here.
SODDEM. !


----------



## mickymost

antiquesam said:


> Mickymost thinks my description is harsh, but if you had a vehicle, with a starting price of £40,000 new, going to in excess of £100,000, parked up near you wouldn't you compare it to those motor yachts tethered to harbours all over the coast line, and wonder why they don't spend some of their wealth leaving them in the proper place, because I think that is how many see us. I should point out that my old crate is 23 years old, but people don't differentiate I'm afraid.




Maybe I misunderstood you so I apologise! I thought you were refering by Gin Palace as the bottom end of the Motorhome market i/e £2500 type motorhomes not £40k plus up to £100k plus land yachts which the average guy cant afford without 10 years finance....

regards Mike


----------



## runnach

Tom .Cllr Backhouse is the chap I remember with campsite interests and spoke with fork tongue as you say

SBC success it seems at any level is consistently inept ......rotten to the core I don't think is an inaccurate description.

Channa


----------



## Amethyst

I believe said man is now managing the campsite at Wykeham


----------



## Deleted member 24156

helen262 said:


> If motorhomes are so bad for the economy of a town then explain why France goes out of its way to encourage motorhomes to its towns and villages,
> By providing places and facilities to stop, often for free, and when there is a charge it is often only a few euros



To sell more BAGUETTES of course.


----------



## Deleted member 9849

I'm on a temporary holiday site at Whitby and can confirm that the town definitely does not need the custom of motorhomers.
The town is absolutely rammed and is a goldmine for local businesses.The money that we put into the local economy is relatively small change at peak season. 
I can see why local councillors are so anti motorhomes,we are not needed at this time of the year anyway, over the winter is a different matter.


----------



## Pauljenny

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

S.O.D.D.E.M !
Society Of Dismal,Disgraceful, Elderly.Motorhomers.


----------



## alcam

wakk44 said:


> I'm on a temporary holiday site at Whitby and can confirm that the town definitely does not need the custom of motorhomers.
> The town is absolutely rammed and is a goldmine for local businesses.The money that we put into the local economy is relatively small change at peak season.
> I can see why local councillors are so anti motorhomes,we are not needed at this time of the year anyway, over the winter is a different matter.



Can't disagree , constantly get the impression many motorhomers are not 'spenders' anyway . Think Phil on here has had problems with people not wanting to pay for organised meets !
Apart from the folk week most of my visits to Whitby are/were off season . I'm sure the businesses I use will all survive without my money .
Still seems stupid not to use an asset [Back Marina carpark] . This lies empty all night apart from the odd motorhome


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## Galaxy

helen262 said:


> If motorhomes are so bad for the economy of a town then explain why France goes out of its way to encourage motorhomes to its towns and villages,
> By providing places and facilities to stop, often for free, and when there is a charge it is often only a few euros



Very sad about Whitby. I used to park there 25 years ago in an old transit van in the side streets for the music festival, behind the railway station. France is much bigger than the UK and probably has a smaller population. Because of their revolution , land and rules are viewed differently. If there are no signs saying you can't do it, then you can do it. In England, unless there is a notice saying you can do it, then you can't. "Get off my land!", enclosures etc. Also French aires were encouraged to develop the French motorhome industry. Very sensible and pragmatic. Having a German Hymer and wild camping in England just isn't cricket I'm afraid.


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## mistericeman

Galaxy said:


> Very sad about Whitby. I used to park there 25 years ago in an old transit van in the side streets for the music festival, behind the railway station. France is much bigger than the UK and probably has a smaller population. Because of their revolution , land and rules are viewed differently. If there are no signs saying you can't do it, then you can do it. In England, unless there is a notice saying you can do it, then you can't. "Get off my land!", enclosures etc. Also French aires were encouraged to develop the French motorhome industry. Very sensible and pragmatic. Having a German Hymer and wild camping in England just isn't cricket I'm afraid.



I agree to a certain extent.... BUT....

There are still plenty of spots to enjoy IF you don't park up like a knob... 
AND avoid honey pots... And avoid publicising them on the Web/forums etc. 

Sheer weight of numbers buoyed up by Internet promotion means, that certain areas WILL  end up being over used and abused resulting in signs/barriers etc.


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## runnach

Galaxy said:


> Very sad about Whitby. I used to park there 25 years ago in an old transit van in the side streets for the music festival, behind the railway station. France is much bigger than the UK and probably has a smaller population. Because of their revolution , land and rules are viewed differently. If there are no signs saying you can't do it, then you can do it. In England, unless there is a notice saying you can do it, then you can't. "Get off my land!", enclosures etc. Also French aires were encouraged to develop the French motorhome industry. Very sensible and pragmatic. Having a German Hymer and wild camping in England just isn't cricket I'm afraid.



I  was always under the impression the French model was to accommodate the increase in motorhomes "a solution" considering it is the largest camping market outside the USA  Five times the land mass a similar population and a social history which lends itself ownership doesn't seem engrained in the French psyche

The mix in the UK is different not as much land overpopulated by comparison and there needs to be a sense of realism. Councils are strapped for cash libraries closing, public toilets, care homes, education etc I cant see them investing in a minority i.e motorhomers and then a minority within that Wilders I think politically the return on investment they cant justify

One other significant difference where the UK has missed a trick is to the best of my knowledge a lot of the French aires have been built using or partly funded by EU money . The Uk has never seemed to go that route for some strange reason didn't request money a couple of years back for the floods ! nor do they seem to engage in rural development grants and other funding streams

Not only are local authorities nonreceptive to motorhomers ( arguing campsites cl et al) but there seems a total apathy for making it happen

Channa


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## jeffmossy

channa said:


> I  was always under the impression the French model was to accommodate the increase in motorhomes "a solution" considering it is the largest camping market outside the USA  Five times the land mass a similar population and a social history which lends itself ownership doesn't seem engrained in the French psyche
> 
> The mix in the UK is different not as much land overpopulated by comparison and there needs to be a sense of realism. Councils are strapped for cash libraries closing, public toilets, care homes, education etc I cant see them investing in a minority i.e motorhomers and then a minority within that Wilders I think politically the return on investment they cant justify
> 
> One other significant difference where the UK has missed a trick is to the best of my knowledge a lot of the French aires have been built using or partly funded by EU money . The Uk has never seemed to go that route for some strange reason didn't request money a couple of years back for the floods ! nor do they seem to engage in rural development grants and other funding streams
> 
> Not only are local authorities nonreceptive to motorhomers ( arguing campsites cl et al) but there seems a total apathy for making it happen
> 
> Channa



You hit the nail on the head with that post Andrew


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