# Euro down



## Tezza (Jul 3, 2016)

Just checked the exchange rate and the spot rate is 1.17 or 1euro is 85p. I have no doubt it will go up again in a day or two . But the general trend is down down down .


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## snowbirds (Jul 3, 2016)

Hi Tezza,

I loaded my Caxton card when it was High last year as the pound earns noting in my bank,so have a little buffer.
The Fuel is still cheaper in europe and with free Aires it's a win win over there,But we still can't go till all Hospital appointments are sorted.:mad2:

Snowbirds




Tezza said:


> Just checked the exchange rate and the spot rate is 1.17 or 1euro is 85p. I have no doubt it will go up again in a day or two . But the general trend is down down down .


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## Tezza (Jul 3, 2016)

Yes I have been puttin and exchanging on my revolut. I think if it goes above 120 again I will put put and change a shedfull. I can't see it going up much above that for the foreseeable future.


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## Wully (Jul 3, 2016)

I went to Canada a couple of weeks ago and loaded £2000 to Canadian $ on my Caxton card I left card on kitchen table on my way out the door so when I got home after all this brexit stuff I checked the balance on my card it was £2140 so exchanged back into pounds it's not all negative . Think I'll buy a lottery ticket


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## Haaamster (Jul 3, 2016)

GBP at it's highest for 10 months :dance:

FTSE 100 chart, graph & latest market news - MoneyWeek


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## El Veterano (Jul 3, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Just checked the exchange rate and the spot rate is 1.17 or 1euro is 85p. I have no doubt it will go up again in a day or two . But the general trend is down down down .



Yes abosolute disaster for anybody changing £'s into anything, we have the Brexitiers to thank for that. The small rises that had recently been seen of UK purchasers of homes in France and Spain, has now once more been killed off stone dead.


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## mark61 (Jul 3, 2016)

El Veterano said:


> Yes abosolute disaster for anybody changing £'s into anything, we have the *Brexitiers to thank for that*. The small rises that had recently been seen of UK purchasers of homes in France and Spain, has now once more been killed off stone dead.




You are most welcome.


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## maingate (Jul 3, 2016)

Were we Brexiters to blame when it was 1:1 a few years back?

In a fairly short time you will be thanking us. Oh I forget, you are going to live in La La land.

I hope Tezza does better than when Gordon broon sold our Gold stocks off. Well, you could not do any worse really.


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## Colinsmiff (Jul 3, 2016)

*Let's just get on with it*

To blame  brexit after such a short time is pointless, I voted to remain but we must accept the majority and get on with it, currencies always fluctuate, just on this occasion a downward trend was predicted, now if the government can negotiate a satisfactory deal who knows maybe Boris and his side of the debate were right,only time will tell, I for one am not going to dwell on the past, we need to get on with it, if we had voted remain the next few years would have been a lot smoother, but we didn't so the next few years will be a bit of a roller coaster, but who knows after that, only time may tell us which side of the debate was right, but even then we may never know


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## Tezza (Jul 3, 2016)

maingate said:


> Were we Brexiters to blame when it was 1:1 a few years back?
> 
> In a fairly short time you will be thanking us. Oh I forget, you are going to live in La La land.
> 
> I hope Tezza does better than when Gordon broon sold our Gold stocks off. Well, you could not do any worse really.


Ohhh I don't know ...have a look at the prices Gideot got for his sales.
by the way troll....I mentioned the euro dropping. I did not give a reason...I did not make a political point. But the resident troll ups it again. Carry on grumps. People are getting to know you. If I said I loved the Torys you would find an excuse to have a go. But I'm giving you warning......keep it up


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## Dezi (Jul 3, 2016)

maingate said:


> Were we Brexiters to blame when it was 1:1 a few years back?
> 
> In a fairly short time you will be thanking us. Oh I forget, you are going to live in La La land.
> 
> I hope Tezza does better than when Gordon broon sold our Gold stocks off. Well, you could not do any worse really.





 It's alright you coming on here all blasé about currency Mainwaring, but I noticed that at the naked cycle ride yesterday 

you were the only one with his wallet firmly strapped around his waist.

Here's how the world naked bike ride went down in Newcastle | Metro News

Dezi  :cheers:


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## lebesset (Jul 3, 2016)

the bank of england have set aside £250 billion to support the financial markets 
they are supporting the £ at the €1.20 level so that should be ok until the reserves run out ; of course it's our money that is going down the pan


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## maingate (Jul 3, 2016)

I have just checked my investments and they are at their highest this year (at least at the time I did my occasional printouts). They are higher than December 2015 and I have cashed in some to help my Grandson purchase and insure a car after he passed his driving test.

As for changing Pounds to Euros at 1.17, if it were me I would hold off for now. The Pound will stabilise shortly and with only more bad news coming out of Euroland, I see the Euro weakening even further.

A more savvy person would have changed at least some of their money when the exchange rate was more lucrative. Timing is everything as that famous Cat Burglar Dezi will confirm.


As for your remark about my 'wallet' on the naked bike ride Dezi, it only contained a soothing cream, which is essential for riding a bike when naked. :sad:


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## Wooie1958 (Jul 3, 2016)

Earlier in the year i chucked a load of money on the Caxton FX and got 1.4105 which almost covered the last trip abroad    :dance:

Don`t think i`ll be as lucky for the september trip though


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## El Veterano (Jul 3, 2016)

maingate said:


> In a fairly short time you will be thanking us. Oh I forget, you are going to live in La La land.
> I hope Tezza does better than when Gordon broon sold our Gold stocks off. Well, you could not do any worse really.



The simple fact is, and anybody who had studied, before the referendum happened, the effects Brexit would, or more to the point may have had, would have realised that if we did leave the EU it was not going to be the day after the vote, but in fact it would be years. 
Some of the candidates for the Tory leadership are now talking about not activating article 50 until early next year, and after a general election. We then have 2 years to exit, and only then will we be able to enter into negotiations into the terms of our departure. This means that we cannot even start talking about whether we have a trade agreement with the single market (which will also mean that we would still have to have freedom of movement of people to and from the UK to Europe) until the early part of 2019, and all the other un-ravellings of law etc associated with 40 years of our membership to the EU will follow even later than that. Canada and Switzerland have been battling for over 7 years to try and get their terms sorted out, and so far have got nowhere. In Switzerlands case they are worse off now than they were when they started their negotiations. 
In reality it is highly likely that many people who voted for Brexit will unfortunately die before their dream is anywhere near realised, certainly if the reports are to be belived that the people who mainly voted out were of retirement age. But then those reports could be wrong, as I am in the age bracket and I, well 'we' actually, voted to stay in.
And just to add another little snippet - the referendum was merely an expression of an opinion, it has no standing in law. Parliament now have to discuss the matter and vote themselves on the result, and 75% of them are in the 'Remain' camp. And now we have Tony Blair stepping in saying the same thing, something along the lines of 'we do not necessarily have to accept the findings of the referendum', which in stating this will not help the mess we are in one bit in the short term.
So we have at least 2+ years of total uncertainty, in which time we will still be in the EU, and still abiding by their rules and paying into their fund as usual.
The situation we are now in is a complete shambles and the GBP and the other currencies will continue on their ups and downs. Some savvy people will make a fortune out of it, others will not.


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## maingate (Jul 3, 2016)

We don't have to continue paying into the EU. We can repeal the 1972 European Communities Act. They may not like it but we can do it. Nobody has left the EU before, so we can do as we please, especially after all the threats we have received from our European 'friends'.

If Parliament decides not to go ahead with Brexit, there will be a lot of new MP's after the next General Election and very likely a UKIP Government due to the backlash. MP's will not be able to walk the streets in this country.  We could also still be a member of a floundering and doomed European Empire. Weak enough to look tempting to Comrade Putin.

Thankfully, I am not gripped by the paranoia of some of the doom and gloom merchants in the country. We have voted, a decision was made and now it will be carried out.


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## iampatman (Jul 3, 2016)

El Veterano said:


> The simple fact is, and anybody who had studied, before the referendum happened, the effects Brexit would, or more to the point may have had, would have realised that if we did leave the EU it was not going to be the day after the vote, but in fact it would be years.
> Some of the candidates for the Tory leadership are now talking about not activating article 50 until early next year, and after a general election. We then have 2 years to exit, and only then will we be able to enter into negotiations into the terms of our departure. This means that we cannot even start talking about whether we have a trade agreement with the single market (which will also mean that we would still have to have freedom of movement of people to and from the UK to Europe) until the early part of 2019, and all the other un-ravellings of law etc associated with 40 years of our membership to the EU will follow even later than that. Canada and Switzerland have been battling for over 7 years to try and get their terms sorted out, and so far have got nowhere. In Switzerlands case they are worse off now than they were when they started their negotiations.
> In reality it is highly likely that many people who voted for Brexit will unfortunately die before their dream is anywhere near realised, certainly if the reports are to be belived that the people who mainly voted out were of retirement age. But then those reports could be wrong, as I am in the age bracket and I, well 'we' actually, voted to stay in.
> And just to add another little snippet - the referendum was merely an expression of an opinion, it has no standing in law. Parliament now have to discuss the matter and vote themselves on the result, and 75% of them are in the 'Remain' camp. And now we have Tony Blair stepping in saying the same thing, something along the lines of 'we do not necessarily have to accept the findings of the referendum', which in stating this will not help the mess we are in one bit in the short term.
> ...



Pity these details weren't presented to the Brexiters earlier. They'll be reading this now and spluttering - 
"But, but, nobody told me this. How could I have been so daft? Why didn't Nigel, Michael and Boris tell me? Can I vote again please?"
Too late now though. I just hope the folk who ticked the box that got us in this mess know someone who can clear it up.

Pat


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## vwalan (Jul 3, 2016)

iampatman said:


> Pity these details weren't presented to the Brexiters earlier. They'll be reading this now and spluttering -
> "But, but, nobody told me this. How could I have been so daft? Why didn't Nigel, Michael and Boris tell me? Can I vote again please?"
> Too late now though. I just hope the folk who ticked the box that got us in this mess know someone who can clear it up.
> 
> Pat



do you really think lots didnt know it would be like this or is it the remainers that didnt know and they blame every one else. 
it took years for uk to get in the eec we changed our money from shillings and pence even before we had got in . 
might be a good idea to stop the scvare mongering . wait and see what does or doesnt happen . 
as a visitor to the continent in the early 60,s i certainly couldnt understand why we joined , still cant . 
but what happens happens . my chats with friends that live abroad or in their own countries say they think its good we voted to leave . lots in spain /portugal would love to pull out as well. 
but anyway many brexiters do and did know it would take ages . plus it might not happen.


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## maingate (Jul 3, 2016)

There can only be one solution to stop this bickering. Those that want to be part of Europe can bugger off and live there. The rest of us are happy to stay in Blighty.


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## vwalan (Jul 3, 2016)

maingate said:


> There can only be one solution to stop this bickering. Those that want to be part of Europe can bugger off and live there. The rest of us are happy to stay in Blighty.



lots just cant do anything with out being told . they havent got the guts to leave or do anything that might rock the boat . many work in jobs they dont really like dont like where they live . etc arent happy at all . but its not their fault . its yours or mine . 
i know we dont know whats happening tomorrow , we cant change yesterday . but so long as the past you were happy ,you will be today and tomorrow. making a mistake can be a good learning curve . not doing anything you dont change things or learn anything . 
bit like on here . seems many dont like gypseys . dont like poles dont like jews dont like coloureds . but want to be part of germany . strange . wasnt there a war to protect them same groups but not join up with germany .


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## Dogeared (Jul 3, 2016)

Simple, it takes time to sort things out.  When we voted to exit, most of understood that we were getting bullish!t from each side.  Most of us were fed up with being told by non elected bureaucrats what we could and could not do.   Just consider how long it takes to move home, get a divorce etc, this will take longer. And before someone jumps up expecting answers to the future, please get real.  As has previously has been said, the markets have settled, investments haven't changed much.  It's about being proud to be English,  Scottish,  Welsh or Irish as well as being a European.


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## El Veterano (Jul 3, 2016)

maingate said:


> There can only be one solution to stop this bickering. Those that want to be part of Europe can bugger off and live there. The rest of us are happy to stay in Blighty.



Funnily enough, that's what we are doing.


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## El Veterano (Jul 3, 2016)

I meant to mention as well the brilliance of Mark Carney the Governor of the Bank of England, without his guidance right now we would truely be up the creek without a paddle.


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## Tezza (Jul 3, 2016)

Just read that ukip are demanding that Farage is part of the negioating team on brexit.
thats right , a unelected mp making laws for us.
ohhhh the irony.


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## maingate (Jul 3, 2016)

vwalan said:


> lots just cant do anything with out being told . they havent got the guts to leave or do anything that might rock the boat . many work in jobs they dont really like dont like where they live . etc arent happy at all . but its not their fault . its yours or mine .
> i know we dont know whats happening tomorrow , we cant change yesterday . but so long as the past you were happy ,you will be today and tomorrow. making a mistake can be a good learning curve . not doing anything you dont change things or learn anything .
> bit like on here . seems many dont like gypseys . dont like poles dont like jews dont like coloureds . but want to be part of germany . strange . wasnt there a war to protect them same groups but not join up with germany .



I was brought up in a group of people who had known hardship and had the philosophy of just getting on with things. Anyone who was a moaner or complainer was not liked very much. You just got on with things, whatever life threw at you. These same people were there for you when something bad happened. Now it seems that whatever happens is somebody else fault and by God they are going to let you know that. They remind me of Professional footballers chasing the Ref and demanding a Penalty kick. It's all me me me.


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## IanH (Jul 3, 2016)

*Ftse*

Ignoring completely that the FTSE 100 share index is now above pre Brexit levels
Pound will follow as will everything else
Please be patient!


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## Fletch6 (Jul 3, 2016)

El Veterano said: 
"In reality it is highly likely that many people who voted for Brexit will unfortunately die before their dream is anywhere near realised,"

Therefore can I add... In reality it Is highly likely that many people who voted in the 1975 referendum died before their dream was anywhere near realised... So each argument cancels out and every old persons vote is valid.


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## Geraldine (Jul 3, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Just read that ukip are demanding that Farage is part of the negioating team on brexit.
> thats right , a unelected mp making laws for us.
> ohhhh the irony.



Yep not even an MP, resigned from his party last year following his 3rd place in the local government elections.
How has this man been able to have such media attention.
Ever feel you have been conned?


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## Haaamster (Jul 4, 2016)

Geraldine said:


> Yep not even an MP, resigned from his party last year following his 3rd place in the local government elections.
> How has this man been able to have such media attention.
> Ever feel you have been conned?



Now now David, he's an elected Mep and that's where any negotiations shall be taking place, and most of the commission have plenty of bruises on their shins where he's been kicking them for years.


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## Dezi (Jul 4, 2016)

El Veterano said:


> I meant to mention as well the brilliance of Mark Carney the Governor of the Bank of England, without his guidance right now we would truely be up the creek without a paddle.



I agree he is, and will continue to be the lone voice of calm and sanity during these unusual times.

He stepped in quickly and kept Canada out of the dicki doodahs during the 2008 housing / banking troubles and it was considered a 

 bit of a coup in financial circles when the bank of England got him.

Dezi


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## Geraldine (Jul 4, 2016)

Haaamster said:


> Now now David, he's an elected Mep and that's where any negotiations shall be taking place, and most of the commission have plenty of bruises on their shins where he's been kicking them for years.



Hi Paul,
Some interesting reading on the wiki site.
In response to criticism of low participation by UKIP MEPs in the EU Parliament, Farage has said that "Our objective as MEPs is not to keep voting endlessly for more EU legislation and to take power away from Westminster."[203] In the 2009-14 parliament, UKIP ranked 76th out of 76 for attendance, took part in 61% of votes, and had three of the six lowest attending MEPs,[204] which led to criticism from other parties and ex-UKIP MEPs that low participation may damage British interests.[205] Between July 2014 and May 2015, its 23 MEPs maintained their record as the least active, participating on average in only 62.29% of votes.[206]


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## maingate (Jul 4, 2016)

Geraldine said:


> Hi Paul,
> Some interesting reading on the wiki site.
> In response to criticism of low participation by UKIP MEPs in the EU Parliament, Farage has said that "Our objective as MEPs is not to keep voting endlessly for more EU legislation and to take power away from Westminster."[203] In the 2009-14 parliament, UKIP ranked 76th out of 76 for attendance, took part in 61% of votes, and had three of the six lowest attending MEPs,[204] which led to criticism from other parties and ex-UKIP MEPs that low participation may damage British interests.[205] Between July 2014 and May 2015, its 23 MEPs maintained their record as the least active, participating on average in only 62.29% of votes.[206]



Have you never watched the Parliament channel? There are often less than 30 out of 650 Members in the Chamber, the rest are elsewhere. That is why the political Parties have Whips to find them and make sure they vote on Bills.


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## Geraldine (Jul 4, 2016)

maingate said:


> Have you never watched the Parliament channel? There are often less than 30 out of 650 Members in the Chamber, the rest are elsewhere. That is why the political Parties have Whips to find them and make sure they vote on Bills.



Nice little earner Nigel!

One bill for just five events came to almost £60,000, covered by expenses paid to Mr Farage's Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy group, which receives £2.5million a year in EU funding. 

But Mr Farage has been accused of hypocrisy over the claims, given his criticism of MEPs who claim expenses from Brussels, paid for by taxpayers.


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## alcam (Jul 4, 2016)

vwalan said:


> *do you really think lots didnt know it would be like this* or is it the remainers that didnt know and they blame every one else.
> it took years for uk to get in the eec we changed our money from shillings and pence even before we had got in .
> might be a good idea to stop the scvare mongering . wait and see what does or doesnt happen .
> as a visitor to the continent in the early 60,s i certainly couldnt understand why we joined , still cant .
> ...



Simple answer to the highlighted question Yes . Look at the posts on this thread alone , many people are incredibly delusional


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## Geraldine (Jul 4, 2016)

Bye Bye Nigel, jumped ship now.
Thanks for destroying this country!
Only Gove to go now.
What a mess, no plans.


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## barryd (Jul 4, 2016)

maingate said:


> There can only be one solution to stop this bickering. *Those that want to be part of Europe can bugger off and live there*. The rest of us are happy to stay in Blighty.



You idiot Maintit!!!!  That was my plan all along to go and retire to France and munch on decent cheese and proper beer for the rest of my days!!!!  I cant go now thanks to you so I am stuck here with the rest of you Brexit loons!!  I have a terrific deli I go to in Northallerton that stocks all my Euro favourites and already they have shot up in price. 

Thanks for that!! NOT!

On a serious note the markets may rally not just because the bank of England is propping them up but also because we actually haven't left the EU yet and the city takes a short term view.

Hopefully if they drag it on as long as some are predicting most of the small majority who voted out will either croak, forget who they voted for or like many of them have already now declared, think its a daft idea after all anyway.  So if Article 50 is never invoked or its refused by parliament most of them will either not notice by then or breathe a sigh of relief. 

There are thousands already wanting to change their minds, this will increase as time goes on.  If there was another referendum right now it would be a vote to stay I am sure.   People do not know what they voted for and were sold a pack of lies.  The second most searched item on Google in the UK immediately AFTER the referendum was "What is the EU"?  ****!  You couldn't make it up.


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## Robmac (Jul 4, 2016)

barryd said:


> .....................There are thousands already wanting to change their minds, this will increase as time goes on.  If there was another referendum right now it would be a vote to stay I am sure.   People do not know what they voted for and were sold a pack of lies.  The second most searched item on Google in the UK immediately AFTER the referendum was "What is the EU"?  ****!  You couldn't make it up.



Sounds like more propaganda to me!

I've still yet to meet a single person who voted out who would vote differently if a second referendum was held.


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## maingate (Jul 4, 2016)

BarryD, I have already given the order for a Quisling like you to be put against the wall and shot ...... has anyone got a wall I can borrow? I promise to give it back, honest.


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## mark61 (Jul 4, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Sounds like more propaganda to me!
> 
> I've still yet to meet a single person who voted out who would vote differently if a second referendum was held.




Same here.

The Google search makes me laugh though. The assumption being it was leavers that did the searching, yet on the other hand, we are told it was daft old people that took us out, who wouldn't know how to do a Google search.

I can safely say, with a similar degree of authority, it was the remain people who did the searching, partly because Facebook went down for a few minutes.


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## Robmac (Jul 4, 2016)

mark61 said:


> Same here.
> 
> The Google search makes me laugh though. The assumption being it was leavers that did the searching, yet on the other hand, we are told it was daft old people that took us out, who wouldn't know how to do a Google search.
> 
> I can safely say, with a similar degree of authority, it was the remain people who did the searching, partly because Facebook went down for a few minutes.



I would imagine in the polls that a lot of remain voters claimed they were out voters and would now change their minds.

They cannot accept defeat!


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## El Veterano (Jul 4, 2016)

Robmac said:


> I would imagine in the polls that a lot of remain voters claimed they were out voters and would now change their minds.
> 
> They cannot accept defeat!



We were remain, and are now even more convinced that it was the correct decision. We are over 65, are perfectly capable of Googling, but never once needed to Google 'What is the EU' as we have both lived and worked within the EU in our time and knew exactly what we were voting for. And it wasn't the pack of lies that Farage was feeding the 'Leave' camp with. We are by the way reluctantly content to except the decision of the referendum and would not be in favour of a re-run.


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## Robmac (Jul 4, 2016)

El Veterano said:


> We were remain, and are now even more convinced that it was the correct decision. We are over 65, are perfectly capable of Googling, but never once needed to Google 'What is the EU' as we have both lived and worked within the EU in our time and knew exactly what we were voting for. And it wasn't the pack of lies that Farage was feeding the 'Leave' camp with. We are by the way reluctantly content to except the decision of the referendum and would not be in favour of a re-run.



I'm not disputing the fact that you wouldn't change your vote. And respect your opinion on a re-run.

I'm saying that anyone who took part in the polls regarding changing their vote could easily lie to help swing a reversal of the Brexit. It would only work one way which is in favour of the remain camp.


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## alcam (Jul 4, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Sounds like more propaganda to me!
> 
> I've still yet to meet a single person who voted out who would vote differently if a second referendum was held.



Reverse experience for me Rob . Posted before met a guy on the Friday after who was shocked and extremely worried at the result . Admitted in conversation that he'd voted out , just never thought it would happen . Several times on TV that scenario was repeated by out voters . No doubt in my mind there was a large protest vote . That obviously doesn't change the result .


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## Robmac (Jul 4, 2016)

alcam said:


> Reverse experience for me Rob . Posted before met a guy on the Friday after who was shocked and extremely worried at the result . Admitted in conversation that he'd voted out , just never thought it would happen . Several times on TV that scenario was repeated by out voters . No doubt in my mind there was a large protest vote . That obviously doesn't change the result .



I haven't seen any of that on TV. But then again, I don't watch a lot of TV.

I'm just relating my own experience. There is also a Daily Express article that says thousands of remain voters would have changed their votes! (which I also don't trust!)


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## barryd (Jul 4, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Sounds like more propaganda to me!
> 
> I've still yet to meet a single person who voted out who would vote differently if a second referendum was held.



Really? Brexit research suggests 1.2 million Leave voters regret their choice in reversal that could change result | UK Politics | News | The Independent

I live in the North East (well North Yorkshire) where a lot of people voted to leave.  I have since talked to loads of people who didnt have a clue what they were voting for and now regret it and would now vote remain.  Already!!  One things for certain that number will increase not decrease.  Maybe thats another reason they are delaying it so long so its not as massive a blow when we decide to stay in.


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## Siimplyloco (Jul 4, 2016)

barryd said:


> Really? Brexit research suggests 1.2 million Leave voters regret their choice in reversal that could change result | UK Politics | News | The Independent
> 
> I live in the North East (well North Yorkshire) where a lot of people voted to leave.  I have since talked to loads of people who didnt have a clue what they were voting for and now regret it and would now vote remain.  Already!!  One things for certain that number will increase not decrease.  Maybe thats another reason they are delaying it so long so its not as massive a blow when we decided to stay in.



If all those people didn't have a clue what they were voting for then surely their vote either way can be disregarded. The same logic could - and probably can be-  applied to the Remain vote!
John


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## Robmac (Jul 4, 2016)

barryd said:


> Really? Brexit research suggests 1.2 million Leave voters regret their choice in reversal that could change result | UK Politics | News | The Independent
> 
> I live in the North East (well North Yorkshire) where a lot of people voted to leave.  I have since talked to loads of people who didnt have a clue what they were voting for and now regret it and would now vote remain.  Already!!  One things for certain that number will increase not decrease.  Maybe thats another reason they are delaying it so long so its not as massive a blow when we decided to stay in.



That poll was based on a much smaller number of people, and they claimed 7% would change which would equate to 1.2 million.

As I said, the poll would be so easy to corrupt it isn't true! I stand by what I said. I haven't met a single one who would change their vote on either side.


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## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 4, 2016)

barryd said:


> Really? Brexit research suggests 1.2 million Leave voters regret their choice in reversal that could change result | UK Politics | News | The Independent
> 
> I live in the North East (well North Yorkshire) where a lot of people voted to leave.  I have since talked to loads of people who didnt have a clue what they were voting for and now regret it and would now vote remain.  Already!!  One things for certain that number will increase not decrease.  Maybe thats another reason they are delaying it so long so its not as massive a blow when we decided to stay in.



and as you were a rabid remainer you are more likely to believe any old pis* that gets printed to prove you were right all along and a vote for Brexit was wrong. Anecdotal stories of people changing their mind is just that, the ballot box result proves that the majority preferred to leave the confines of the EU, anyone can say I voted to leave but now I wish I hadn't but where's the proof? Stories like this will not change the outcome of the democratic vote and your continual whinging at the result won't change it either......


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## kris (Jul 4, 2016)

We voted OUT accept it and lets move ON!!!!!!


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## Geraldine (Jul 4, 2016)

kris said:


> We voted OUT accept it and lets move ON!!!!!!



Hi ,So what's the master plan now?


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## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 4, 2016)

Geraldine said:


> Hi ,So what's the master plan now?


Well the first part of the plan is to try and stop idiotic questions like yours......


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## Geraldine (Jul 4, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Well the first part of the plan is to try and stop idiotic questions like yours......



I think it's a fair question to ask. Anyone else out there able to answer for me.
Cheers


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## barryd (Jul 4, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> and as you were a rabid remainer *you are more likely to believe any old pis** that gets printed to prove you were right all along and a vote for Brexit was wrong. Anecdotal stories of people changing their mind is just that, the ballot box result proves that the majority preferred to leave the confines of the EU, anyone can say I voted to leave but now I wish I hadn't but where's the proof? Stories like this will not change the outcome of the democratic vote and your continual whinging at the result won't change it either......



Thats rich considering most who voted to leave believed the complete Pish that was sold to them like "we will control immigration" (not a chance and already gone back on). "We will give the money saved to the NHS" (Denied the very next morning).  "We dont need the single market" (again apparently we do now which means IMMIGRATION".  Thats what remainers are angry about.  Its not whinging as you put it, its anger that half the country fell for a load of bollox the rest of us told you was bollox but you wouldnt listen.  Yes the fact that many now want to change their minds and that huge amounts of people thought they could protest vote in a referendum **** is extremely frustrating but its the big stitch up thats upset everyone and led to half the country not accepting it. 

The protesters have a big voice and it isnt going to go away anytime soon.  If your all so confident that nobody has changed their minds then put your money where your mouth is and sign the petition for a second referendum which has already had over 4 million signatures. EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum - Petitions  Lets do it again now we know the lies.  It will still be a breeze for Leave wont it if your right so what have you got to worry about?  If it is another vote to leave everyone will accept it now I think including myself.

The petition by the way was started by the leave campaign when they thought they were going to lose.   Remember it was them and many Brexit followers on here who kept saying "if its a vote to remain we may have lost the battle but not the war".  There was no way the leavers would have let it go or given up but it seems now they lied their way into a very narrow victory we remainers should now shut up and go away.  I think not.


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## Deadsfo (Jul 4, 2016)

so it could take 2/3 yrs to actually leave, by which time things will have calmed down deals would have been done here there and everywhere ,money and shares will be steady and already discounted having had plenty of time to put in plans,so in a relatively calm world why should leavers change there mind .
Abd If there was another vote and it came in with the same figures but in favour of remaining what do you do then, have the best of three!! people underestimate the ability of the British people to prevail and succeed in this great change .My personal view is I will  willingly take a lot of hardship to get our independence and sovereignty  back,as my old man used to say his dad was in the trenches in WW1 he was in the RAF in WW2, and these people have taken our country without firing a bullet !!.OK a bit of an emotional view but thats how it should be, for christ sake its your country we are talking about.


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## Geraldine (Jul 4, 2016)

Deadsfo said:


> so it could take 2/3 yrs to actually leave, by which time things will have calmed down deals would have been done here there and everywhere ,money and shares will be steady and already discounted having had plenty of time to put in plans,so in a relatively calm world why should leavers change there mind .
> Abd If there was another vote and it came in with the same figures but in favour of remaining what do you do then, have the best of three!! people underestimate the ability of the British people to prevail and succeed in this great change .My personal view is I will  willingly take a lot of hardship to get our independence and sovereignty  back,as my old man used to say his dad was in the trenches in WW1 he was in the RAF in WW2, and these people have taken our country without firing a bullet !!.OK a bit of an emotional view but thats how it should be, for christ sake its your country we are talking about.



How has been apart of Europe effected you ?
What are the issues ?
What do you not like, where has it gone wrong ?


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## Geraldine (Jul 4, 2016)

runnach said:


> I didn't believe any "pish" Barry. We are all aware of how the system works, big fishes eat the little fishes. I know I do not want my hard earned taxed £ to the non elected hierarchy sitting on their useless arses in Brussels. What swung it for me, my niece had first hand observation, with her having a placement in Brussels (she missed the train station bombing by a half hour) her feedback of her period there, was an eye opener.
> 
> I don't know if you are retired, I am not, I'm still plugging away. I do not want my hard earned funding some lazy slob who has retired under the guise of a EU politician.



Are you talking about Nigel Farage ?


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## Geraldine (Jul 4, 2016)

runnach said:


> All of them. We only know the half, if that, of it. If you are retired, I can understand those wishing to remain.



I'm not retired, I work in the Social Care field, some of my colleagues are Polish and Spanish they are brilliant and so professional and caring,working in a low paid demanding job.
We are so understaffed that without them we would not have a service.
I have my concerns regarding the vote leave, so do they!


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## barryd (Jul 4, 2016)

Deadsfo said:


> so it could take 2/3 yrs to actually leave, by which time things will have calmed down deals would have been done here there and everywhere ,money and shares will be steady and already discounted having had plenty of time to put in plans,so in a relatively calm world why should leavers change there mind .
> Abd If there was another vote and it came in with the same figures but in favour of remaining what do you do then, have the best of three!! people underestimate the ability of the British people to prevail and succeed in this great change .My personal view is I will  willingly take a lot of hardship to get our independence and sovereignty  back,as my old man used to say his dad was in the trenches in WW1 he was in the RAF in WW2, and these people have taken our country without firing a bullet !!.OK a bit of an emotional view but thats how it should be, for christ sake its your country we are talking about.



Well I see it completely differently so we are never going to agree.  You could argue though that those who fought in the two world wars and sacrificed everything did so to prevent the rise and spread of the Nazis so all of Europe could be free.  A Europe together has helped keep the peace (just about) for many decades now.  Already in the UK the far right have had a field day because of Brexit.  Are we now proud that our hard working neighbours are being spat at and told to feck off back to Poland on the bus or that immigrant children from Europe are crying at school because they are worried about being deported?  Hate crimes are up by over 500% and thats just after a week.

People gleefully said on here in the run up this could be the end of Europe and other countries will collapse and leave like its a good thing.  The Far right are rising in Europe as well.  That racist bitch La Pen is already vying for power in France.  Is this what people want?  Really?  Its what happened in Germany in the late 30's and we all know how that went.

Remember it was Churchill that envisaged and spoke about his dream of the United states of Europe.  And before anyone says its NATO that holds us together and keeps the peace its not.  Its working and depending on each other that keeps the peace.

I think I said several times before the vote that its all about the economy well its about peace and keeping Europe together just as much.  With every passing day I am starting to realise how important that is.

I think the powers that be realise that.  There probably wont be a second referendum.  Its probably not a good idea to let the public get involved again anyway but you can bet your bottom dollar there will be no real winners at the end of all of this.  My best guess is we will stay in one way or another for the reasons stated above but will end up in a weaker position than we were.  Who is going to be happy with that?  We should have faced up to the fact that we were stuck with Europe and made it work from within as best we could.

Who really feels on here now that we will "Take back our country" as they keep saying?  Who really now honestly believes that immigration will change or that we wont have to play by EU rules?  Does anyone really still believe we will have any money left over from the £8 billion a year we paid in and it will go to the farmers, the researchers and the NHS?

Its a no brainer.  Once people really start to admit to themselves that none of the dreams of a sunny 1950's Britain populated with all white english speaking people is never going to happen and they were sold a pup but their holidays, food, cars, mortgages, healthcare abroad etc are all going to cost more then yeah, they will want to remain.


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## Robmac (Jul 5, 2016)

barryd said:


> ...........Its a no brainer.  Once people really start to admit to themselves that none of the dreams of a sunny 1950's Britain populated with all white english speaking people is never going to happen and they were sold a pup but their holidays, food, cars, mortgages, healthcare abroad etc are all going to cost more then yeah, they will want to remain.



Nobody wants the 1950's Britain that you speak of. Why would they?

What worries people is a small island being flooded with uncontrolled immigration. We are told that the NHS would not survive without immigration. We are also told that it will not survive if we remain in the EU;

Britain's NHS can't survive staying in the European Union - Telegraph

NHS 'Scandal' As UK Pays Millions To EU

We are told that immigrants will pay our pensions. They will be the pensioners of tomorrow, NET immigration is well over 300,000 per year. So to pay their pensions we must need to take more and more ad infinitum? Where does that stop?

We are told that they come and do the jobs nobody wants, their kids won't want those jobs, they will grow up in British schools and want the same as their British counterparts.

We can still be out of Europe and take the immigrants we need, (and genuine refugees) but have it under our control.

We are already being offered trade deals, and I believe that if other countries leave the EU then they too will want to trade with us. I also believe that if the EU stays together, they would still want to trade with us, they would be mad not to. Even if we did have to pay a token tariff.

The ridiculous situation whereby the Parliament moves between Brussels and Strasbourg costing £300 million per year will not change, France will veto any move to change that.

Apparently the vast majority (84%) of resolutions put forward which are against British interests are pushed through because we are overruled.

Huge salaries, massive expenses. The EU is a gravy train and no matter how we try to change it we will only ever get lip service. 

But the main overriding factor for me is overpopulation. Our roads can't cope, our countryside can't cope, we will never have enough houses, our atmosphere won't cope with the pollution. Our hospitals won't cope, our sewerage systems won't cope, our water supply won't cope.

These are my main fears and my reasons for voting out.


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## barryd (Jul 5, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Nobody wants the 1950's Britain that you speak of. Why would they?
> 
> What worries people is a small island being flooded with uncontrolled immigration. We are told that the NHS would not survive without immigration. We are also told that it will not survive if we remain in the EU;
> 
> ...



Yep I understand your reasons for voting out Rob, we have discussed it many times but as your own campaigners have all pretty much said since the result came in that immigration isnt going to change and now they are also saying we will have to access the single market which will mean a Norway type situation with free movement of people how is that taking back control and how is it going to address the immigration problem?  It appears to me that we have sacrificed everything for none of the benefits you were sold by your very own campaigners. 

I dont know how you feel but if I were a Brexiteer I would be pretty pished off right now.  I would want what I voted for and what I was promised.  The Government and parliament are massively in favour of Europe. Even the likely new leader (Theresa May) was in the Remain camp.

There are no easy answers but pulling out of the EU sadly is definitely not one. 

I agree the EU has its faults and needs to change and I think it will, especially now.  Perhaps thats what the Government are hanging on for.


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## Haaamster (Jul 5, 2016)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3Kvu6Kgp88

Brexiteers song.


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## Robmac (Jul 5, 2016)

barryd said:


> Yep I understand your reasons for voting out Rob, we have discussed it many times but as your own campaigners have all pretty much said since the result came in that immigration isnt going to change and now they are also saying we will have to access the single market which will mean a Norway type situation with free movement of people how is that taking back control and how is it going to address the immigration problem?  It appears to me that we have sacrificed everything for none of the benefits you were sold by your very own campaigners.
> 
> I dont know how you feel but if I were a Brexiteer I would be pretty pished off right now.  I would want what I voted for and what I was promised.  The Government and parliament are massively in favour of Europe. Even the likely new leader (Theresa May) was in the Remain camp.
> 
> ...



I'm afraid that won't be accepted, nor do I believe it needs to be. But the main thing is that there may be no EU to remain in. (Whether that is a good thing or not remains to be seen). I think there would be massive civil unrest if the people aren't given what they voted for - it would be the end of democracy.

I realise that I have made all of these points before, and I am not so naive as to believe that it is not a big bad world out there, full of corruption, but the last points I made re population, absolutely scares me to death! 

I won't be able to respond to any points on this for a few days, as I am going away in the van. But I really am not ignoring them.


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## Dezi (Jul 5, 2016)

Deadsfo said:


> so it could take 2/3 yrs to actually leave, by which time things will have calmed down deals would have been done here there and everywhere ,money and shares will be steady and already discounted having had plenty of time to put in plans,so in a relatively calm world why should leavers change there mind .
> Abd If there was another vote and it came in with the same figures but in favour of remaining what do you do then, have the best of three!! people underestimate the ability of the British people to prevail and succeed in this great change .My personal view is I will  willingly take a lot of hardship to get our independence and sovereignty  back,as my old man used to say his dad was in the trenches in WW1 he was in the RAF in WW2, and these people have taken our country without firing a bullet !!.OK a bit of an emotional view but thats how it should be, for christ sake its your country we are talking about.





Without wishing to get involved in this argument, that has no straight answer, I would like to point out one salient factor regarding some Eu immigrants. 

As you have mentioned "dear old dad" and the RAF, may I mention that the largest foreign squadron during that period was 303 Polish fighter squadron who's distinguished record is second to none. These were men who had already battled on mainland Europe just to get here.

My own views regarding Brexit are as confused as most but having a short memory is not one of them. You may object to seeing a Polish sign 
above a corner shop, but without the Polish pilots it could have been German. 

No. 303 Polish Fighter Squadron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dezi


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## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 5, 2016)

barryd said:


> Thats rich considering most who voted to leave believed the complete Pish that was sold to them like "we will control immigration" (not a chance and already gone back on). "We will give the money saved to the NHS" (Denied the very next morning).  "We dont need the single market" (again apparently we do now which means IMMIGRATION".  Thats what remainers are angry about.  Its not whinging as you put it, its anger that half the country fell for a load of bollox the rest of us told you was bollox but you wouldnt listen.  Yes the fact that many now want to change their minds and that huge amounts of people thought they could protest vote in a referendum **** is extremely frustrating but its the big stitch up thats upset everyone and led to half the country not accepting it.
> 
> The protesters have a big voice and it isnt going to go away anytime soon.  If your all so confident that nobody has changed their minds then put your money where your mouth is and sign the petition for a second referendum which has already had over 4 million signatures. EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum - Petitions  Lets do it again now we know the lies.  It will still be a breeze for Leave wont it if your right so what have you got to worry about?  If it is another vote to leave everyone will accept it now I think including myself.
> 
> The petition by the way was started by the leave campaign when they thought they were going to lose.   Remember it was them and many Brexit followers on here who kept saying "if its a vote to remain we may have lost the battle but not the war".  There was no way the leavers would have let it go or given up but it seems now they lied their way into a very narrow victory we remainers should now shut up and go away.  I think not.



Well Private Frazer, when the petition reaches 17 million 410 thousand and 742 I'll consider that good enough to have another referendum but until then the votes cast are the ones that count so you can spit your dummy out and stamp your feet all you want as it will change nothing. I won't bother with the rest of your rant about NHS and immigration as it has been dealt with by others but it does show you still believe all the piffle that the fear campaigners spouted.....


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## maingate (Jul 5, 2016)

I have just signed a petition to ensure that Brexit will be carried out as promised and I have donated towards a Fund to help pay for a campaign to that effect. The petition came from 38 Degrees who have successfully campaigned on various subjects in the past.

I have a feeling that the arguing about Brexit will last longer than the EU itself. So hopefully "It will all be over by Xmas". :lol-049:


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## eddyt (Jul 5, 2016)

turkey is going to give citizenship to the migrants. they will then have visa free travel to eu.


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## mark61 (Jul 5, 2016)

It was never about immigration for me, although it may be for others.

Why on earth would I vote to remain in some corrupt  wanna be superstate. A organisation that has ignored a fair few referendums in other countries, an organisation which virtually has the motto, " if you have a referendum and the answer is no, you have to hold another because the only answer is yes". An organisation that attracts my attention with the promise ice cream, while picking my pocket. 

Isn't the way the EU has treated the UK since the vote proof what a bunch of fat cat bully boys they are. They are not inclusive, quite the opposite in fact. We've upset their game and they'll do all they can to make us suffer, why? Because we had the nerve to see past their fear mongering tac tics.


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## Deadsfo (Jul 5, 2016)

Dezi said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Without wishing to get involved in this argument, that has no straight answer, I would like to point out one salient factor regarding some Eu immigrants.
> 
> ...



I never mentioned immigration, and I have the utmost respect and admiration for the Polish people to such an extent I was in the past a member at a local white eagle (the polish airforce insignia) social club, I also have a great respect for the Seikhs and Gurkhas who bravely gave there lives in many of our wars but when a Romanian rapist cant be kicked out because it would infringe his human rights it start getting crazy.
     Sense must prevail and a similar system to Australia is what we need ,we will always still be open to the worlds needy.When I spoke of our country being taken without a bullet being fired I was referring to the autocrats in the European parliament, I am a pro European I love France ,Italy Germany and there people but I want my country to run itself.I hope our leaving can in the years to come has the effect of stimulating European nations to work just as close but in a more autonomous manner.I think it was one of the Danish members of their parliament who said' Britain saves Europe again'


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## pughed2 (Jul 5, 2016)

*Keep to point*

There's a lot of bumph being spoken here. The UK economy is weak and going downhill, and crashes may be ahead. That's to do with our financial authorities not realising that low interest rates for years is bound to lead in the Greek direction......Nothing to do with brexit which probably will be a bonus.........Steve bristol.


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## barryd (Jul 5, 2016)

Robmac said:


> *I'm afraid that won't be accepted, nor do I believe it needs to be*. But the main thing is that there may be no EU to remain in. (Whether that is a good thing or not remains to be seen). I think there would be massive civil unrest if the people aren't given what they voted for - it would be the end of democracy.
> 
> I realise that I have made all of these points before, and I am not so naive as to believe that it is not a big bad world out there, full of corruption, but the last points I made re population, absolutely scares me to death!
> 
> I won't be able to respond to any points on this for a few days, as I am going away in the van. But I really am not ignoring them.



If I am correct and the government does sign up for a Norway type agreement, stays in the single market and is forced to allow free movement but is out of the EU then I am not sure what anyone could do about it when you say it wont be accepted.  The referendum was a vote to leave the EU.  The conditions of how we left the EU or if we stayed in the single market or the EEA were never on the table but this is where the voters were conned.  All signs and statements from the leave camp at that time were out was out and we were out of everything so if thats not the case (and I dont think it will be) the only people you can blame are your very own leave campaigners for lying to you.  At the end of the day it was an advisory poll not a legally binding one.  I fear Nigel's resignation was again premature.  You may well still need him but what exactly the leave campaign can do if we pull out but decide to sign up for a Norway type agreement I have no idea.  Nothing probably.

It is a worry regarding the increasing population but I firmly believe that it will only be resolved from within the EU itself.  That is where the changes need to be made.  I suspect all it would take would be controls on people coming to live from within the EU only if they have a firm job offer.  Logic also tells me that the country cannot just fill up indefinitely if there are no jobs for the immigrants to go to.   Here is the thing though.  If we end up with a Norway type agreement and out of the EU but still in the EEA and single market we will end up with all the things the Brexit campaign didnt want like free movement of people and paying in but we will have no seat at the table and no influence on any future improvements on immigration laws.  We will just have to accept whatever the EU decides.  A crap deal really but the most likely one if Article 50 is ever invoked. 

This battle will go on for decades probably.  It really will be a neverendum.  The remain campaign and people like me are now been accused of being doom and gloom merchants, bad losers, whingers etc when really we are just as passionate as you and the others in the Brexit camp about both our country and Europe and dont want to see either fail.  Who is right?  We are all now certainly divided right down the middle.  Our views are polls apart and I see no getting away from it.  Ultimately it will be the same politicians who got us into this mess that will decide our future if there are any left as nearly all those who orchestrated it have done a runner.   I dont really go in for conspiracy theories but its a bit odd that the stage is being set so that when these decisions are made none of the people involved originally are going to be around.

Ive always respected your point of view Rob throughout the campaign and you do make some good points, I have enjoyed our exchanges (mostly).  Have a great trip in the van.



Aquaticaquarian said:


> *Well Private Frazer,* when the petition reaches 17 million 410 thousand and 742 I'll consider that good enough to have another referendum but until then the votes cast are the ones that count so you can spit your dummy out and stamp your feet all you want as it will change nothing. I won't bother with the rest of your rant about NHS and immigration as it has been dealt with by others but it does show you still believe all the piffle that the fear campaigners spouted.....



Guffaw!  I like that.  Your right, I am beginning to sound like him.  We are DOOMED!!!!  We clearly both feel passionately about our views which are polls apart thats all.  If the result had been the other way around would you have just given up and moved on?  Thats certainly not what the leavers were saying when they thought they might lose.  Remember it was them that started the second referendum petition!  As for us not being able to change anything by stamping our feet etc well dont be so sure.  The remain campaign has a strong voice, social media (something I know a little bit about  ) is rife with campaigns and protest against leaving the EU and we have a very pro European Parliament.  If you believe in something strongly enough I think you should fight for it regardless of what an advisory poll says which was very marginal anyway.  

The only piffle was the diatribe of lies that came out of the leave campaign and already most of it has been exposed.  Its impossible to say if all the experts were right about the economy or if the other Private Frazers like myself were right about it being the worst thing to happen to the UK in living history as we haven't actually left yet.  Nothing has actually changed at the moment.


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## maingate (Jul 5, 2016)

I'm sorry Barry but if you still think the EU is a 'people focused' organisation after their reactions and revenge threats to us then you need locking up. They are a bunch of power mad bumbling bureaucrats who are a threat to Europe in the long run.


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## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 5, 2016)

barryd said:


> If I am correct and the government does sign up for a Norway type agreement, stays in the single market and is forced to allow free movement but is out of the EU then I am not sure what anyone could do about it when you say it wont be accepted.  The referendum was a vote to leave the EU.  The conditions of how we left the EU or if we stayed in the single market or the EEA were never on the table but this is where the voters were conned.  All signs and statements from the leave camp at that time were out was out and we were out of everything so if thats not the case (and I dont think it will be) the only people you can blame are your very own leave campaigners for lying to you.  At the end of the day it was an advisory poll not a legally binding one.  I fear Nigel's resignation was again premature.  You may well still need him but what exactly the leave campaign can do if we pull out but decide to sign up for a Norway type agreement I have no idea.  Nothing probably.
> 
> It is a worry regarding the increasing population but I firmly believe that it will only be resolved from within the EU itself.  That is where the changes need to be made.  I suspect all it would take would be controls on people coming to live from within the EU only if they have a firm job offer.  Logic also tells me that the country cannot just fill up indefinitely if there are no jobs for the immigrants to go to.   Here is the thing though.  If we end up with a Norway type agreement and out of the EU but still in the EEA and single market we will end up with all the things the Brexit campaign didnt want like free movement of people and paying in but we will have no seat at the table and no influence on any future improvements on immigration laws.  We will just have to accept whatever the EU decides.  A crap deal really but the most likely one if Article 50 is ever invoked.
> 
> ...


I already did when I was outvoted in the Scottish referendum, I for one went with the majority decision, no tears no stamping on the ground or wrenching of the hair.... just a pity others don't see a majority vote as just that and want to keep on having referendums until they get what they want....
As for the 'diatribe of lies' the remain campaigners were quite prolific with their own sets of lies and fear tactics....


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## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 5, 2016)

A wee note from Boris.....

On Friday I heard a new dawn chorus outside my house. There was a rustling and twittering, as though of starlings assembling on a branch. Then I heard a collective clearing of the throat, and they started yodelling my name – followed by various expletives. “Oi Boris – c---!” they shouted. Or “Boris – w-----!” I looked out to see some otherwise charming-looking young people, the sort who might fast to raise money for a Third World leprosy project.

They had the air of idealists – Corbynistas; Lefties; people who might go on a march to stop a war. And so when they started on their protest song, I found myself a bit taken aback. “EU – we love YOU! EU – we love YOU!” they began to croon. Curious, I thought. What exactly is it about the EU that attracts the fervent admiration of north London radicals? It was the first time I had ever heard of trendy socialists demonstrating in favour of an unelected supranational bureaucracy.

In the old days, the Lefties used to dismiss the EU as a bankers’ ramp. Tony Benn thought it was unacceptably anti-democratic. Jeremy Corbyn used to vote against it in every division. Why has it suddenly become so fashionable among our nose-ringed friends? I tried to think which of the EU’s signature policies they were so keen on. Surely not the agricultural subsidies that make up most of the budget, and that have done so much to retard development in the Third World. They can’t – for heaven’s sake – support the peak tariffs that discriminate against value added goods from Sub-Saharan Africa. Nor can they possibly enjoy the sheer opacity of the system – the fact that there are 10,000 officials who are paid more than the Prime Minister, and whose names and functions we don’t know.

They can’t really be defending the waste, the fraud – or the endless expensive caravan of crémant-swilling members of the European Parliament between Brussels and Luxembourg and Strasbourg. Are they really demonstrating in favour of the torrent of red tape that has done so much to hold back growth in the EU? It seems an odd sort of campaign theme: what do we want? More Brussels law-making! When do we want it? Now!

Naturally, Lefties might want laws to protect the workforce – but they would surely want those laws to be made by politicians that the people could remove at elections. No: the more I thought about it, the odder it seemed. It was incredible that these young and idealistic people should be making a rumpus about the euro – the key policy of the modern EU – when that project has so gravely intensified suffering in many southern EU countries, and deprived a generation of young people of employment.

Perhaps, I mused, it was a general feeling that the EU was about openness, tolerance and diversity. But they must surely know that the EU’s rules on free movement mean a highly discriminatory regime, one that makes it much more difficult for people from outside the EU to get into Britain – even though we need their skills.

So what was it about? People’s emotions matter, even when they do not seem to be wholly rational. The feelings being manifested outside my house are shared by the large numbers of people – 30,000, they say – who at the weekend came together in Trafalgar Square to hear pro-EU speeches by Sir Bob Geldof. There is, among a section of the population, a kind of hysteria, a contagious mourning of the kind that I remember in 1997 after the death of the Princess of Wales. It is not about the EU, of course; or not solely. A great many of these protesters – like dear old Geldof – are in a state of some confusion about the EU and what it does.

It is not, as he says, a “free trade area”; if only it were. It is a vast and convoluted exercise in trying to create a federal union – a new political construction based in Brussels. But, as I say, I don’t believe that it is psychologically credible to imagine young people chanting hysterically in favour of Brussels bureaucrats. The whole protest is not about the EU project, per se; it is about them – their own fears and anxieties that are now being projected on to Brexit.

These fears are wildly overdone. The reality is that the stock market has not plunged, as some said it would – far from it. The FTSE is higher than when the vote took place. There has been no emergency budget, and nor will there be. But the crowds of young people are experiencing the last psychological tremors of Project Fear – perhaps the most thoroughgoing government attempt to manipulate public opinion since the run-up to the Iraq War.

When Geldof tells them that the older generation has “stolen your future” by voting to Leave the EU, I am afraid there are too many who still believe it. It is time for this nonsense to end. It was wrong of the Government to offer the public a binary choice on the EU without being willing – in the event that people voted Leave – to explain how this can be made to work in the interests of the UK and Europe. We cannot wait until mid-September, and a new PM. We need a clear statement, now, of some basic truths:

1. There is no risk whatever to the status of the EU nationals now resident and welcome in the UK, and indeed immigration will continue – but in a way that is controlled, thereby neutralising the extremists.

2. It is overwhelmingly in the economic interests of the other EU countries to do a free-trade deal, with zero tariffs and quotas, while we extricate ourselves from the EU law-making system.

3. We can do free-trade deals with economies round the world, many of which are already applying.

4. We can supply leadership in Europe on security and other matters, but at an intergovernmental level.

5. The future is very bright indeed. That’s what Geldof should be chanting


----------



## Dezi (Jul 5, 2016)

maingate said:


> I'm sorry Barry but if you still think the EU is a 'people focused' organisation after their reactions and revenge threats to us then you need locking up. They are a bunch of power mad bumbling bureaucrats who are a threat to Europe in the long run.



Quite right young mainwaring  and if I am going to be pushed around by "a bunch of power mad bumbling bureaucrats" 

then let them be British "power mad bumbling bureaucrats" not some damn foreign import. 

Dezi  

:cheers:


----------



## Haaamster (Jul 5, 2016)

pughed2 said:


> There's a lot of bumph being spoken here. The UK economy is weak and going downhill, and crashes may be ahead. That's to do with our financial authorities not realising that low interest rates for years is bound to lead in the Greek direction......Nothing to do with brexit which probably will be a bonus.........Steve bristol.



Financial experts in USA have been stating for a good while the American economy is in dire straights, far worse than the recession of 2008 and will collapse. German banks Deutsche and Commerzbank lost 14 billion in February and are both close to collapse. Italy owes 360 billion in debt with no economic growth, Spain and Portugal similar, all this will be blamed on the brexit by some on here.


----------



## barryd (Jul 5, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> I already did when I was outvoted in the Scottish referendum, I for one went with the majority decision, no tears no stamping on the ground or wrenching of the hair.... just a pity others don't see a majority vote as just that and want to keep on having referendums until they get what they want....
> *As for the 'diatribe of lies' the remain campaigners were quite prolific with their own sets of lies and fear tactics*....



What lies then have now come out as being rubbish or fear tactics from the remain camp?  Can you name any?

What we do know as definite lies from the Brexit camp is the big fat whopper on the bus about giving the £350m to the NHS, That they lied about Immigration and that they lied about not needing the single market.

What is coming true according to the Bank of England this morning who issued a bit of a "I told you so" statement that the economy is indeed going the way they predicted and we are not even out yet.

You may have given up on Scottish independence by the way but a lot of your fellow Scots including St Nicola  have not and they have made that very clear from the day the result to remain came in.  I hope the Scots do get independence.  I have already secured residency by bribing Sinner on here should they manage to break away and stay in the EU and if England leaves. 

I know I wont change anyone's mind on here, its clear most of you are worlds apart from how I and others see Europe and the future of Britain.  Ill try not to say anything else gloom or doomy but it aint over until the Fat lady sings and we are a long way from that.


----------



## Pauljenny (Jul 5, 2016)

barryd said:


> What lies then have now come out as being rubbish or fear tactics from the remain camp?  Can you name any?
> 
> What we do know as definite lies from the Brexit camp is the big fat whopper on the bus about giving the £350m to the NHS, That they lied about Immigration and that they lied about not needing the single market.
> 
> ...



Trouble is, The Fat Lady, may be Frau Merkel and the song ......... Deutchland Uber Alles


----------



## barryd (Jul 5, 2016)

Pauljenny said:


> Trouble is, The Fat Lady, may be Frau Merkel and the song ......... Deutchland Uber Alles



Yes well it seems Angela (who always looks depressed to me) was one of the ones that were telling the rest of the EU not to rush Britain into leaving.  Perhaps she has a plan.  or is just delaying the fact that it will be the German people picking up our tab if we leave.

Its a pity German industry didn't lean a bit harder on her and the EU to give Cameron what he wanted on Immigration and we wouldn't be in this mess.   Perhaps such a reform may come now.  Its not just us that are unhappy about it.  All it would take is a nice little carrot such as that and there would be no need to leave anyway.  The referendum would be null and void then as the terms of what we were voting on will have changed.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 5, 2016)

barryd said:


> *What lies then have now come out as being rubbish or fear tactics from the remain camp?*  Can you name any?
> 
> What we do know as definite lies from the Brexit camp is the big fat whopper on the bus about giving the £350m to the NHS, That they lied about Immigration and that they lied about not needing the single market.
> 
> ...



What about the chancellors threat about pensions which left him with a bit of egg on his face when he was reminded of his statement during the elections that pensions were safe as they were triple locked in, oops did you forget about that one then? There are others that have been done to death on here but you've no doubt elected to forget about those too, as you say we're poles apart on this so I'll just leave you to your dream of staying in nirvana......


----------



## Piers (Jul 5, 2016)

maingate said:


> I have just signed a petition to ensure that Brexit will be carried out as promised and I have donated towards a Fund to help pay for a campaign to that effect. The petition came from 38 Degrees who have successfully campaigned on various subjects in the past.
> 
> I have a feeling that the arguing about Brexit will last longer than the EU itself. So hopefully "It will all be over by Xmas". :lol-049:



Well they do say a fool and his money are easy parted


----------



## barryd (Jul 5, 2016)

Piers said:


> Well they do say a fool and his money are easy parted



Yeah.  What that Fruitcake maingate doesnt realise is I set up that petition.  Its linked directly to my Paypal account. Mwhahahaaaa.  Its all appreciated though as my biggest client is partly EU funded   Those trips into glorious Europe do not pay for themselves you know!


----------



## barryd (Jul 5, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> What about the chancellors threat about pensions which left him with a bit of egg on his face when he was reminded of his statement during the elections that pensions were safe as they were triple locked in, oops did you forget about that one then? There are others that have been done to death on here but you've no doubt elected to forget about those too, as you say we're poles apart on this so I'll just leave you to your dream of staying in nirvana......



I must have missed that one. 

Point is its impossible yet to tell if the doom and gloom and predictions from the remain camp were true or not as nothing has officially changed yet but the lies from the Brexit camp are now already proven.  Lets say the economy doesnt go into recession and all the "Project fear" stuff turns out to be rubbish.  They were predictions and still are.  They were what experts told us.  I think its fair to say now whatever side of the fence you were on that the Brexit campaigns very top promises were total bullshit.


----------



## alcam (Jul 5, 2016)

barryd said:


> I must have missed that one.
> 
> Point is its impossible yet to tell if the doom and gloom and predictions from the remain camp were true or not as nothing has officially changed yet but the lies from the Brexit camp are now already proven.  Lets say the economy doesnt go into recession and all the "Project fear" stuff turns out to be rubbish.  They were predictions and still are.  They were what experts told us.  I think its fair to say now whatever side of the fence you were on that the Brexit campaigns very top promises were total bullshit.



Ken Clarke has said rather a lot about his choices for leader of Tories . One little nugget [amongst many] . 

 "She is not one of the tiny band of lunatics who think we can have a sort of glorious economic future outside the single market"


----------



## martyncc (Jul 5, 2016)

Geraldine said:


> I think it's a fair question to ask. Anyone else out there able to answer for me.
> Cheers



Yes stop hacking and start backing ...Britain


----------



## alcam (Jul 5, 2016)

Geraldine said:


> I think it's a fair question to ask. Anyone else out there able to answer for me.
> Cheers



I doubt you will get an answer . Every point made by remain posters has been ignored in favour of 'All Our Yesterdays' comments  with the exception of a few , IMO , misguided comments .


----------



## Tezza (Jul 5, 2016)

alcam said:


> Ken Clarke has said rather a lot about his choices for leader of Tories . One little nugget [amongst many] .
> 
> "She is not one of the tiny band of lunatics who think we can have a sort of glorious economic future outside the single market"


This is what he thinks of all of them.

Watch: Ken Clarke Ridicules Tory Candidates


----------



## barryd (Jul 5, 2016)

You wont get an answer Geraldine to your question earlier which was *"So what's the master plan now? "* because they don't have one.  All those that steered us to the mess we now find ourselves in have buggered off and left whoever is left to try and sort it out.  They cant sort it out because there is nothing yet to sort out as we haven't left the EU.  We have no trained negotiators and trade deals can take years or even decades to set up which is why they are now saying "oh we will need the single market" after all.  All we will get is the same deal but no MEP's or seat on the council and of course no say and in the dark.  What a complete waste of time.

Of course if nobody invokes Article 50 before March when apparently (posted by a Brexiteer yesterday  ) the new Qualified Majority Vote system becomes part of the the Lisbon treaty we wont be going anywhere unless the majority of EU countries vote to let us go.


----------



## sinner (Jul 5, 2016)

barryd said:


> What lies then have now come out as being rubbish or fear tactics from the remain camp?  Can you name any?
> 
> You may have given up on Scottish independence by the way but a lot of your fellow Scots including St Nicola  have not and they have made that very clear from the day the result to remain came in.  I hope the Scots do get independence.  I have already secured residency by bribing Sinner on here should they manage to break away and stay in the EU and if England leaves.



that in my eyes is the only good thing to come out of the vote )) 

roll on Indy 2 ) 

viva la Republic


----------



## sinner (Jul 6, 2016)

runnach said:


> Alan, I want 10% from your bribe! :lol-053:



No chance Terry, your an unbeliever!!! come the revolution, it will be hard for me to keep your head on ) but I will try buddy  lol


----------



## WellWornTraveller (Jul 6, 2016)

Well, I have just ploughed through this thread from start to finish, what a lot of crap some people do spout.

Old Arab curse "May your earholes turn to a//dholes and **** all over your collar".

Bernie


----------



## Deadsfo (Jul 7, 2016)

WellWornTraveller said:


> Well, I have just ploughed through this thread from start to finish, what a lot of crap some people do spout.
> 
> Old Arab curse "May your earholes turn to a//dholes and **** all over your collar".
> 
> Bernie



Another one,' May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your ar##hole', not you in particular just saying


----------



## Colinsmiff (Jul 7, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> What about the chancellors threat about pensions which left him with a bit of egg on his face when he was reminded of his statement during the elections that pensions were safe as they were triple locked in, oops did you forget about that one then? There are others that have been done to death on here but you've no doubt elected to forget about those too, as you say we're poles apart on this so I'll just leave you to your dream of staying in nirvana......



Triple lock was a promise made by Cameron and the current government, they will be gone in a few months time, and if the markets remain uncertain pensions will be affected, And think about this, the majority of under 40's voted to remain, and feel let down by the older generation, They will be the people funding your pension in the future, so if they decide no longer to support the poor hard up pensioner who shafted them in the EU referendum, and spend money on rebuilding a future who can blame them,  what goes around-comes around


----------



## davef (Jul 8, 2016)

The EU provided grants or low interest loans for the following companies to move their manufacturing out of the UK -
Ford to move Transit production from Southampton to Turkey.
Cadbury to Poland
Ryton ( was Rootes Group) to Slovakia
Metal Box to Poland
Gillette to Eastern Europe
Texas Instruments from Greenock to Germany
M & S manufacture to the Far East
Dyson to Malaysia
Jaguar/Landrover new factory in Slovakia
Also BAT, AC Delco and Twinings......


----------



## El Veterano (Jul 8, 2016)

runnach said:


> Should help to create some space when they all move back to their relevant countries



They won't be moving back, they are in the EU for a reason. The same reason that Easyjet and others are now considering leaving the UK so that they also can remain within the EU.


----------



## iampatman (Jul 8, 2016)

1.47 six months ago, "rallied" today at 1.17. That's all.

Pat


----------



## wildcampnewbie (Jul 8, 2016)

El Veterano said:


> They won't be moving back, they are in the EU for a reason. The same reason that Easyjet and others are now considering leaving the UK so that they also can remain within the EU.



"They are in the EU for a reason", yes the multi national companies and the bureaucrats love THE GRAVY TRAIN, the little peoples money with no accountability. The gravy train has stopped. The EU is broken and will fail, it has been failing for years. The UK is a strong, stable economy, they will be back.


----------



## Byronic (Jul 8, 2016)

iampatman said:


> 1.47 six months ago, "rallied" today at 1.17. That's all.
> 
> Pat


 
Those young uns heading for Ibiza are going to be mightily pissed off. They'll want to blame someone.
I'm waiting any day now for the government to advise all old people to stay indoors until Xmas


----------



## El Veterano (Jul 9, 2016)

wildcampnewbie said:


> "They are in the EU for a reason", yes the multi national companies and the bureaucrats love THE GRAVY TRAIN, the little peoples money with no accountability. The gravy train has stopped. The EU is broken and will fail, it has been failing for years. The UK is a strong, stable economy, they will be back.



I wish I had your faith. There is absolutely no possibility of the EU failing, or the Euro for that matter. I have no clue where you get the idea from that the £ is strong and stable, it has crashed of a cliff against other currencies and it will eventually bring everything that relies on it down with it - including the value of your house.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

El Veterano said:


> I wish I had your faith. There is absolutely no possibility of the EU failing, or the Euro for that matter. I have no clue where you get the idea from that the £ is strong and stable, it has crashed of a cliff against other currencies and it will eventually bring everything that relies on it down with it - including the value of your house.



Germany demands EU Referendum as Merkel told to not be arrogant | Politics | News | Daily Express


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Germany demands EU Referendum as Merkel told to not be arrogant | Politics | News | Daily Express


Don't you just love the express....."GERMANY" demands eu referendum. Not quite true is it? Unless there is only one person in Germany. A.....repeat....A German mp demands a refurendum .


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Don't you just love the express....."GERMANY" demands eu referendum. Not quite true is it? Unless there is only one person in Germany. A.....repeat....A German mp demands a refurendum .



and are you so sure that there IS only one person in Germany wanting a referendum, surely with your need to source material on-line you will find more....


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Oh well here's another one....

DAILY MAIL COMMENT: IMF and the truth about the broken EU | Daily Mail Online


----------



## mark61 (Jul 9, 2016)

Thats a bit of a harsh thing to say about Merkel, even if it is true.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> and are you so sure that there IS only one person in Germany wanting a referendum, surely with your need to source material on-line you will find more....


I did...I read that article that's states Germany want a refurendum . Where actually it quotes 1 woman,. Now when I went to school there was more than woman living in Germany. So I went by the article...now show me your facts and figures that Germany want a referendum. 
So unless you think Germany consists of just one person my point has been proven don't you think? The express took ones persons view and assumed 1 person was talking for the whole of the country.  I thought this groups didn't like generalisations.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Oh well here's another one....
> 
> DAILY MAIL COMMENT: IMF and the truth about the broken EU | Daily Mail Online


That report was done by who??? The imf. That great organisation that in the run up to the vote stated how bad it would be for the uk? That same organisation tha backed Gideot ? And now because it suits your agenda they can be believed. The brexiters poured scorn on them before but now they are a leading light. 
I think it was pointed out on this forum what the imf had said before and the people who knocked them. I suppose if there is nothing on the to tonight I can back and find the people who mocked them. Be quite interesting don't you think.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Tezza said:


> I did...I read that article that's states Germany want a refurendum . Where actually it quotes 1 woman,. Now when I went to school there was more than woman living in Germany. So I went by the article...now show me your facts and figures that Germany want a referendum.
> So unless you think Germany consists of just one person my point has been proven don't you think? The express took ones persons view and assumed 1 person was talking for the whole of the country.  I thought this groups didn't like generalisations.



Well it's you who's claiming there is only one German wanting a referendum, where's your proof? I just posted the link, once again it's pedantic you that's making the claim there's only one...... I'm neither here nor there about it but it looks like it's upsetting you enough.... I'm pretty certain I've posted other links along the same vein before and I'm sure if you look you'll find them and that goes for other Germans who would like a referendum and not just the Daily Mail's offering. Perhaps you should take the matter up with them, it's their paper and and their information.... I know you won't though you'll just climb back up on the extremely high horse of yours....


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Well it's you who's claiming there is only one German wanting a referendum, where's your proof? I just posted the link, once again it's pedantic you that's making the claim there's only one...... I'm neither here nor there about it but it looks like it's upsetting you enough.... I'm pretty certain I've posted other links along the same vein before and I'm sure if you look you'll find them and that goes for other Germans who would like a referendum and not just the Daily Mail's offering. Perhaps you should take the matter up with them, it's their paper and and their information.... I know you won't though you'll just climb back up on the extremely high horse of yours....


No not at all . I'm claiming the express is claiming Germany wants a vote on just one woman's say so.
please show me how many people in Germany want a vote. You have pointed to just one. I agree she does. Now how many more. . God you are more stupid than I gave you credit for. Well done in that achievement .


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Oh look Tezza there's another one...

MERKEL'S WORST NIGHTMARE: Germany calls for Referendum as 'people want to be free of EU' | World | News | Daily Express


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

and another


Germany Referendum? Far-Right Radicals Call For UK-Inspired Vote


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Here you go.....Tezza says ....we should have a vote on Hymers being the only motorhomes in the uk.
Express headline ........Britain wants to ban all motorhomes except  
A leading enthusiastic  motorhomer in the uk believes that only Hymers should be allowed on british roads. He has pointed out that the uk does not like other makes. He goes on to say Becuase Germany has more Hymers than other sort of motorhomes we should do the same. He went on to say " we should have a Austria style point system and only take motorhomes that are good to us. We don't want to be the dumping ground for for the tinny badly made other motorhomes.

You see 1 persons view is total crap. And your trying to justify it.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Now French voters call for FREXIT after Germany face demands for EU referendum. - YouTube


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Here you go.....Tezza says ....we should have a vote on Hymers being the only motorhomes in the uk.
> Express headline ........Britain wants to ban all motorhomes except
> A leading enthusiastic  motorhomer in the uk believes that only Hymers should be allowed on british roads. He has pointed out that the uk does not like other makes. He goes on to say Becuase Germany has more Hymers than other sort of motorhomes we should do the same. He went on to say " we should have a Austria style point system and only take motorhomes that are good to us. We don't want to be the dumping ground for for the tinny badly made other motorhomes.
> 
> Y*ou see 1 persons view is total crap. And your trying to justify it.*


*
*
Still claiming there's ONLY one German then?


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> and another
> 
> 
> Germany Referendum? Far-Right Radicals Call For UK-Inspired Vote



Do you actually read the links you post here? Have you seen also read what the man who is calling for the referendum also said? 
Ok I will post it
Unfortunately for German citizens who are clinging to the far-right goals of representing German citizens first, the party’s leader has previously called on German law enforcement to shoot at illegal German immigrants.
Read more at Germany Referendum? Far-Right Radicals Call For UK-Inspired Vote.
 Keep going with the links but this is a bit to easy for me now. 
Next you you will be posting britains first or edl links.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Could Germans vote to exit the EU? | Germany | DW.COM | 29.06.2016


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> [/B]
> Still claiming there's ONLY one German then?


Read what I said. The express quoted 1 woman since when did  1 woman make up the population of Germany. I bet a lot of youngsters would like us oldies dead . But if the headline said the uk wants to kill it's pensioners what would you say. Grow up for gods sake.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Read what I said. The express quoted 1 woman since when did  1 woman make up the population of Germany. I bet a lot of youngsters would like us oldies dead . But if the headline said the uk wants to kill it's pensioners what would you say. Grow up for gods sake.



Grow up, that is really rich coming from you.... You said only one German wanted a referendum and asked for proof, well I'm sending the links that there's MORE than one and you're still not happy.... so did you or did you not say you wanted proof that there were more than one....


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Could Germans vote to exit the EU? | Germany | DW.COM | 29.06.2016


Right thanks for the link . Stop looking at headlines and actually read. Your making yourself look stupid now. This taken from the article you linked to

A German opinion poll just days ahead of Britain's EU membership vote showed that if there had been a similar vote in Germany, the outcome would have been different.
An overwhelming majority of 79 percent would have voted against leaving the EU, the Forsa pollsters found. Only 17 percent would have voted for an exit - and of the latter, 60 percent were AfD supporters.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Stupid is as stupid does.... 

Left-wingers tell Angela Merkel to let Germans hold EU referendum after Brexit  | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Grow up, that is really rich coming from you.... You said only one German wanted a referendum and asked for proof, well I'm sending the links that there's MORE than one and you're still not happy.... so did you or did you not say you wanted proof that there were more than one....


Again read what I wrote. The express quoted just one woman but said Germany wants to leave. No other evidence was provided by the link.
so...I will say it slower for you. You cannot say a country wants something because of just 1 woman. That was the excuse for the headline. I wrote that really slow for you. The express. The most anti Europe comic we have.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Grow up, that is really rich coming from you.... You said only one German wanted a referendum and asked for proof, well I'm sending the links that there's MORE than one and you're still not happy.... so did you or did you not say you wanted proof that there were more than one....


yes I did ...and you have provided proof. Thank you. And I have provided proof that 79% don't want to leave. And I don't think they can have a referendum because of something to do with their constitution. Although I could be wrong.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Tezza said:


> yes I did ...and you have provided proof. Thank you. And I have provided proof that 79% don't want to leave. And I don't think they can have a referendum because of something to do with their constitution. Although I could be wrong.



No you're correct, at the moment they cannot have a referendum but it appears there are moves to change this, time will tell..... so you agree there's more than one German wanting a referendum? Don't worry I won't take an affirmative answer as an apology....


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> No you're correct, at the moment they cannot have a referendum but it appears there are moves to change this, time will tell..... so you agree there's more than one German wanting a referendum? Don't worry I won't take an affirmative answer as an apology....


Jesus this is becoming hard work now. I said the express has one woman saying this and apperently she is speaking for the whole of Germany. 1 woman is demanding a referendum not Germany. Which is what I said from the outset .


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Jesus this is becoming hard work now. I said the express has one woman saying this and apperently she is speaking for the whole of Germany. 1 woman is demanding a referendum not Germany. Which is what I said from the outset .


 Yes she did and it's the Express you need to take this up with not me but apparently you love to shoot the messenger.....


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Don't you just love the express....."GERMANY" demands eu referendum. Not quite true is it? Unless there is only one person in Germany. A.....repeat....A German mp demands a refurendum .


Just in case you forgot what I actually wrote. You see....I never said there is only person in Germany.
should have gone to specsavers


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Yes she did and it's the Express you need to take this up with not me but apparently you love to shoot the messenger.....


Well as you posted the link then I assume you agree with the article. Didn't you see it strange when saying Germany demands....the rag goes on to just give 1 persons view and the equates that view with the whole country.?


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Well as you posted the link then I assume you agree with the article. Didn't you see it strange when saying Germany demands....the rag goes on to just give 1 persons view and the equates that view with the whole country.?



Okay then I'll type this really slow for you so you can understand..... I copied the link, you don't agree with the way it has been written then take that up with the Editor of the Express. What my views on the subject are irrelevant to the item..... but since you ask, I voted for Brexit and I would be over the moon if other countries called for a referendum on exiting the EU....... and since like another pedant on here who likes to have the last word as some sort of trump card that you've won the argument... there you go you can have it.... I'll just keep on posting links..... a day without upsetting someone is a day wasted.....


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Theresa May: Britain faces 'tough times' but can enjoy a 'better, brighter future' outside the EU


----------



## Fletch6 (Jul 9, 2016)

This guy always talks sense

We Saved Our Democracy - YouTube


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

Apparently Theresa doesn't agree with your doom and gloom scenario of our future post Brexit and I would have thought that you being a Tory supporter would have gone along with her future vision of a Great Britain free from the shackles of an oppressive EU dictatorship..... no pleasing some apparently... oops forgot the obligatory


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Okay then I'll type this really slow for you so you can understand..... I copied the link, you don't agree with the way it has been written then take that up with the Editor of the Express. What my views on the subject are irrelevant to the item..... but since you ask, I voted for Brexit and I would be over the moon if other countries called for a referendum on exiting the EU....... and since like another pedant on here who likes to have the last word as some sort of trump card that you've won the argument... there you go you can have it.... I'll just keep on posting links..... a day without upsetting someone is a day wasted.....


lol....your incapable of upsetting me . Why over the moon if other countries exit? What on earth have other countries got to do with us . I think when other countries were trying to convince us to remain  I heard it all on here , what's it got to do with them, bloody nerve trying to tell us what to do and everything between.  
So now you realised that you got it wrong when I accused the express of basically misleading headlines. Then you try and accuse me of saying there is only 1 person in Germany lol. Then you post  obscure links that are basically from an organisation similar to Britain first. Then I point it out all out to you with the figures from polls , which I agree are not the most reliable , but even giving a 10% margin shows that Germany as such does not want to leave. 
Game , and and match . Thank you thank you. Better luck next time trying to take me down. Yep time to get back up on the ole horse. It wasn't to far a fall when your right. Have a lovely evening.


----------



## barryd (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Apparently Theresa doesn't agree with your doom and gloom scenario of our future post Brexit and I would have thought that you being a Tory supporter would have gone along with her future vision of a Great Britain free from the shackles of an oppressive EU dictatorship..... no pleasing some apparently... oops forgot the obligatory



Guffaw!!   After all we have been through does anyone believe what any politician says today is what will actually happen tomorrow?  Parliament wont honour the referendum in three months time if it carries on like it is currently.  They cant.  Its against the rules to vote for something that will damage the country.  The referendum will be out of date by then anyway.

As for Germany wanting a referendum (Which they dont by the way) you do realise that all the links you posted were from far right fascist Fruitloops?  They are springing up everywhere out of the murky shadows now as the Brexiteers have given them a springboard.   It happening all over Europe.  This is exactly what these nasty evil little scumbags have been waiting for.  They would like nothing more than for Europe to break up and for the economy to implode so they can take over and spread like cancer.   Pandoras box has been opened so be very careful what you wish for.  Our government have one chance to stop it and the only way is to not listen to a nation that couldnt really make up their mind anyway, did not know what they were voting for and are already regretting it.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Apparently Theresa doesn't agree with your doom and gloom scenario of our future post Brexit and I would have thought that you being a Tory supporter would have gone along with her future vision of a Great Britain free from the shackles of an oppressive EU dictatorship..... no pleasing some apparently... oops forgot the obligatory


But apperently Boris, and Farage do lol that's why they left. Oh and camerwrong. He jumped ship too. I think they might know more than us.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

barryd said:


> Guffaw!!   After all we have been through does anyone believe what any politician says today is what will actually happen tomorrow?  Parliament wont honour the referendum in three months time if it carries on like it is currently.  They cant.  Its against the rules to vote for something that will damage the country.  The referendum will be out of date by then anyway.
> 
> As for Germany wanting a referendum (Which they dont by the way) you do realise that all the links you posted were from far right fascist Fruitloops?  They are springing up everywhere out of the murky shadows now as the Brexiteers have given them a springboard.   It happening all over Europe.  This is exactly what these nasty evil little scumbags have been waiting for.  They would like nothing more than for Europe to break up and for the economy to implode so they can take over and spread like cancer.   Pandoras box has been opened so be very careful what you wish for.  Our government have one chance to stop it and the only way is to* not listen to a nation that couldnt really make up their mind anyway, did not know what they were voting for and are already regretting it.*



17 million people couldn't make up their own minds and didn't know what they were voting for!!! my my how condescending and far left communist thinking of you....

oops


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

barryd said:


> Guffaw!!   After all we have been through does anyone believe what any politician says today is what will actually happen tomorrow?  Parliament wont honour the referendum in three months time if it carries on like it is currently.  They cant.  Its against the rules to vote for something that will damage the country.  The referendum will be out of date by then anyway.
> 
> As for Germany wanting a referendum (Which they dont by the way) you do realise that all the links you posted were from *far right fascist Fruitloops? * They are springing up everywhere out of the murky shadows now as the Brexiteers have given them a springboard.   It happening all over Europe.  This is exactly what these nasty evil little scumbags have been waiting for.  They would like nothing more than for Europe to break up and for the economy to implode so they can take over and spread like cancer.   Pandoras box has been opened so be very careful what you wish for.  Our government have one chance to stop it and the only way is to not listen to a nation that couldnt really make up their mind anyway, did not know what they were voting for and are already regretting it.




ummm  I Support Brexit Because I'm Left-Wing, Not in Spite of It

just in case you thought we were all right wing.....


----------



## mark61 (Jul 9, 2016)

[video=youtube;Z0kuJhkMLWs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0kuJhkMLWs[/video]


----------



## barryd (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> 17 million people couldn't make up their own minds and didn't know what they were voting for!!! my my how condescending and far left communist thinking of you....
> 
> oops



Why are so many changing their minds then?  Wales who voted out in a recent poll have swung the opposite way as have many others all over the UK.  The reason?  Many really either didnt know what they were voting for, believed the rubbish about so called "project fear" which is already coming true, wanted to protest vote (unbelievable in a referendum) and believed the lies about the £350m going to the NHS, that immigration would be reduced and that we didnt need the single market, now all gone back on.

Its not condescending as the British public simply were not qualified to vote on such a complex decision.  Thats why we vote in elected governments to make such complex decisions on our behalf.  How would  you feel if you needed open heart surgery and you turned up on the slab and the surgeon said "This is Fred from the canteen, we are letting him have a go today, you ok with that?"

Interesting that you should call me a lefty communist.  I do not recall me ever putting my cards on the table as to which way my political leanings are.  There are plenty of Tories that are remainers, plenty of true blue businessmen as well. Just saying.


----------



## vwalan (Jul 9, 2016)

barryd said:


> Why are so many changing their minds then?  Wales who voted out in a recent poll have swung the opposite way as have many others all over the UK.  The reason?  Many really either didnt know what they were voting for, believed the rubbish about so called "project fear" which is already coming true, wanted to protest vote (unbelievable in a referendum) and believed the lies about the £350m going to the NHS, that immigration would be reduced and that we didnt need the single market, now all gone back on.
> 
> Its not condescending as the British public simply were not qualified to vote on such a complex decision.  Thats why we vote in elected governments to make such complex decisions on our behalf.  How would  you feel if you needed open heart surgery and you turned up on the slab and the surgeon said "This is Fred from the canteen, we are letting him have a go today, you ok with that?"
> 
> Interesting that you should call me a lefty communist.  I do not recall me ever putting my cards on the table as to which way my political leanings are.  There are plenty of Tories that are remainers, plenty of true blue businessmen as well. Just saying.



but dont worry the so called specialists dont always get it right . death happens . 
anyway far better off letting a butcher /slaughterman try first at least we know abit about how what where parts of the inside a body are .


----------



## Byronic (Jul 9, 2016)

runnach said:


> For me it was obvious 350 mill to NHS was a red herring, why throw mega bucks into a broken business. NHS must be one of the most wasteful areas of tax payer money. All over the UK, you constantly hear of NHS failing their patients.
> 
> Time the NHS was shaken up. Maybe those running the ship should look at the BUPA/SPIRE model, yes I know, private. They do appear efficient.



Not quite the full story. My missus was an Operating Theatre Sister for a number of years, working in the private sector(including BUPA) as well as the NHS. 
Her experience was, that the private sector were very selective, routine procedures were the order of the day, which made them appear efficient. The really tricky stuff requiring expensive equipment ie high capital cost and expensive manning were farmed off to the good ol' NHS. When an op. used to go wrong as in critical emergency, often as not the NHS emergency services were prevailed upon. 
And we all know the story's of the consultants not available to take certain categories of patient on the NHS waiting list, but do have the availability to take them on at some privately run health authority hospital, where he has a clinic on Thursday and Friday afternoons.


----------



## Fletch6 (Jul 9, 2016)

barryd said:


> the British public simply were not qualified to vote on such a complex decision.



You speak for yourself barry.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 9, 2016)

barryd said:


> Why are so many changing their minds then?  Wales who voted out in a recent poll have swung the opposite way as have many others all over the UK.  The reason?  Many really either didnt know what they were voting for, believed the rubbish about so called "project fear" which is already coming true, wanted to protest vote (unbelievable in a referendum) and believed the lies about the £350m going to the NHS, that immigration would be reduced and that we didnt need the single market, now all gone back on.
> 
> *Its not condescending as the British public simply were not qualified to vote on such a complex decision. * Thats why we vote in elected governments to make such complex decisions on our behalf.  How would  you feel if you needed open heart surgery and you turned up on the slab and the surgeon said "This is Fred from the canteen, we are letting him have a go today, you ok with that?"
> 
> Interesting that you should call me a lefty communist.  I do not recall me ever putting my cards on the table as to which way my political leanings are.  There are plenty of Tories that are remainers, plenty of true blue businessmen as well. Just saying.



LMFAO....... oh and then I found your heart surgeon analogy even more amusing. Anyone who believes that the masses should not be allowed to have their own say on their own or countries future certainly gives me the impression that they have leftist leanings, however if being called a leftist communist offends you then I do apologise for hurting your feelings.....  and yes I'm well aware that there are many from the political divide that voted either way, I'm just surprised that anyone could say that the vast majority of people (regardless of which way they voted) are incapable of deciding on such a momentous commitment, I'm truly flabbergasted that you have such a low opinion of the common man yet hold our very own politicians with such high regard..... did you miss the time they were all caught with their snouts in the trough over their expenses claims.....


----------



## barryd (Jul 9, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> LMFAO....... oh and then I found your heart surgeon analogy even more amusing. Anyone who believes that the masses should not be allowed to have their own say on their own or countries future certainly gives me the impression that they have leftist leanings, however if being called a leftist communist offends you then I do apologise for hurting your feelings.....  and yes I'm well aware that there are many from the political divide that voted either way, I'm just surprised that anyone could say that the vast majority of people (regardless of which way they voted) are incapable of deciding on such a momentous commitment, I'm truly flabbergasted that you have such a low opinion of the common man yet hold our very own politicians with such high regard..... did you miss the time they were all caught with their snouts in the trough over their expenses claims.....



I can assure you that you really did not hurt my feelings.  

We have Cameron and his swivel eyed Looney's to the right of his party to blame for the referendum but I am sorry if this does actually offend you or anyone else but I stand by what I said.  The vast majority of the general public were indeed incapable of deciding on such a huge and complicated issue.  Well I say decided. Its more of an opinion poll than a legally binding vote.  Even if the public were all members of Mesna they could not make an informed decision as nobody has any idea what indeed out means or what we were really voting for.

I do not hold any pollys in high regard to be honest but Cameron in his desperation to lead and win the general election was forced into promising the referendum that with a narrow vote to leave if it goes ahead will make Blair's gaffs over the Iraq war look like a squabble in a childens playground. 

The average reading age of the UK population is 9 and the second most searched for UK google search AFTER the referendum was "what is the EU".  I rest my case.

As for the MP's expenses. I really wasnt that fussed about it.  A massive waste of money and resources performing a witch hunt against people who we already know to be full if sh!t.  Most people in this world are just out for themselves.  Pollys are no different from the average joe fiddling his taxi receipts.  The nation is full of hypocrites.


----------



## RoadTrek Boy (Jul 9, 2016)

barryd said:


> I can assure you that you really did not hurt my feelings.
> 
> We have Cameron and his swivel eyed Looney's to the right of his party to blame for the referendum but I am sorry if this does actually offend you or anyone else but I stand by what I said.  The vast majority of the general public were indeed incapable of deciding on such a huge and complicated issue.  Well I say decided. Its more of an opinion poll than a legally binding vote.  Even if the public were all members of Mesna they could not make an informed decision as nobody has any idea what indeed out means or what we were really voting for.
> 
> ...



Very interesting, and YOU think that that self serving clueless bunch are better qualified to make the decision than the British public.. Give me strength..


----------



## David Morison (Jul 10, 2016)

This is one of the reasons why I am still on the Leave side:




Another one of those rules that was decided upon by the unelected and we weren't told about!

David


----------



## El Veterano (Jul 10, 2016)

And now, as a direct result of 'Brexit' we are to have a prime minister who also was not elected  by the populace. She will in fact be elected by just 150k Conservative party members. How is that any better?


----------



## barryd (Jul 10, 2016)

runnach said:


> Barry, are you condoning "pollys" who are elected to act on behalf of the people, to steal from them, with impunity?



No not really but this vote to leave feels similar to me.  Some of the stuff that went on over expenses was indeed criminal but not all of it.  The country worked itself into a Frenzy.  People were apoplectic about it on here and everywhere and just couldn't wait to get stuck in.  I just wasn't that surprised by it all.  Whilst some deserved what they got it seemed to me like it was the rules that needed tightening up more than anything.  The hypocrisy was that the very people who were shouting and screaming probably if it had been them would have taken advantage of those rules themselves and probably have done in the past.

Brexit all feels a bit similar to me in that it appears that for some its been a way to kick out at the system.  Stick it to the man without anyone really having an idea of what sticking it to the man will cost us.  I fear if it happens it will be a very expensive and disastrous both economically and socially outcome based for many on some kind of protest vote.

The politicians whether you like them loathe them or trust them are the people we put into power to make these difficult choices is for us though.  It should have been down to them.  They, all the worlds financial experts, nearly all world leaders were massively in favour of staying in.  Why do you think that is the case?


----------



## mark61 (Jul 10, 2016)

You've been doing calculations on your speedometer again. 


I wonder, if those saying the public aren't up to voting, voted themselves.


----------



## RoadTrek Boy (Jul 10, 2016)

I would suggest that a lot of you in the remain camp try thinking out of the box occasionally, and take a good look at the way the EU is heading. As for the pompous arrogance to assume the majority who voted for out are uneducated says more about them and their their narrow viewpoint.


----------



## barryd (Jul 10, 2016)

runnach said:


> First of all, DC was not too smart, after all, he was Prime Minister who started the ball rolling, now he has fallen on his sword, not too, bright of him, was it!!
> 
> As for other country leaders, they fell behind DC and, much of what was said, re: Obama for example, was a lie. Lets face it Barry, politicians are not well known to tell the truth, when one is elected to any parliament, on day one, their integrity is left at parliament door.



Well I agree about Cameron.  It is down to him that we are in this mess but I do not agree that other world leaders, the worlds financial experts and the massive majority of MP's just fell behind Cameron for no other reason than they think and still think that Brexit is a bad idea.

The chart below says it all.  






Those very people up above now have to support at some stage a motion to invoke Article 50. Will they do it when the referendum was advisory only and non binding,  that the majority for ‘Brexit’ was small (3.8%) in most countries such as the USA, Germany and Switzerland this would not be a big enough margin in a referendum for any form of major constitutional change to be passed and certainly not on one vote.

Then they need to consider the lies that the Brexit campaign was based upon and how it swayed a small majority into voting to leave.  The vote is null and void in my opinion based on this one issue alone.  MP's must consider this when and if a motion to invoke Article 50 is voted on.

Whilst many will say they have a duty to honour the public's decision they also have a duty to not vote for something that knowingly will damage the country. 

There is no need for a second referendum as finally it is down to Parliament to decide.  Looking at the graph above I would say its a long way from certain that Article 50 will ever be invoked.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 10, 2016)

To be quite honest I don't think I was qualified to make the choice. I purely wanted what was best for me. Others were drawn into the immigration arguement, others on take back control crap. A lot on the 350 mill for the NHS. So people made a stand and poked 2 fingers to the goverment . None of us know the exact rules of the eu. None of us know how negioations will take place and definitely noneofuswill know how it will pan out. We were fed lies by both sides. And from those lies people had to make a choice. I don't class my self as dumb but in no way did I have the experience to know what was best for the country. So it came down to what was best for me. That's the only place I'm qualified  to take action. But there are a lot of people , 3 million people read the sun , and that is where they got their information from so they would do what the sun tells them to do. Now the sun is showing that it won't all be milk and honey and a lot of the 3 mill are feeling pissed off. A quote on the sun website " now you tell us the truth. , why didn't you write this before the vote "
So I was remain...am I bitter . Not in the least. The reason being I still don't think it will happen. It has to go to a vote in parliament. And Mp's are not allowed I think to vote for something that is not in the country's interest. It could be even the eu offers a sweetener  so the terms will change and then parliament will have to decide.
But even it does happen I don't think anything much will change. I still think there will be freedom of movement and might even have to pay into the system.  After all the people voted to leave the eu , they didn't vote on how the negation should go and the terms of leaving. 
Bovvered by it all? Nope.


----------



## maingate (Jul 10, 2016)

El Veterano said:


> And now, as a direct result of 'Brexit' we are to have a prime minister who also was not elected  by the populace. She will in fact be elected by just 150k Conservative party members. How is that any better?



Gordon Brown was also an unelected Prime Minister, so a precedent has been set.

I only hope she is better than he was.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 10, 2016)

Now I have a serious question and have tried to find the answer but I admit it has beaten me.
The  Bank of England has just started another bout of QE. To the sum of £250 billion . Is that our money? Is it taxpayers cash?
now it has used this money to try and stabilise the economy . Because of brexit it started to freefall. So when people say ohh the ftse100 is back to nearly or better than it was before the vote  it is a little suss if we have had to pump in all that money. Also the ftse 250  is down quite a lot I think. Ohh another question. When the 250 billion has gone what happens then?
just a side note...if it is our money then it would have paid the eu sub for 25 years. 1 more point , if it is our money then yet again we have given our banks another massive massive handout!
Is the money ours that the bank is giving to other banks?


----------



## Deleted member 32902 (Jul 10, 2016)

With you're penchant for denigrating posters on here, and people whom you seem to regard as not worthy of the level of intelligence and the high regard you have of yourself, why don't you put your name in the hat for next tory leader, oh wait, you don't even feckin live here.
seamus.


----------



## barryd (Jul 10, 2016)

maingate said:


> Gordon Brown was also an unelected Prime Minister, so a precedent has been set.
> 
> I only hope she is better than he was.



Which She?  I hope you don't mean that Loathsome woman!!

Christ she put the willies up me.  I don't like her.  She reminds me of that horrible Doloris Umbridge in the Harry Potter movies when the Ministry of Magic went all 1984 on Hogwarts and she took over but we all know how that turned out.   Please tell me you don't mean her!  Her big smarmy condescending grin made me want to crush grapes ****!

Please no, anything but that. 

Be careful what you wish for.







EDIT:  Just so you know.  Brexiteers are in Slytherin, remainers Gryffindor


----------



## lebesset (Jul 10, 2016)

well the footsie 100 companies are actually mostly large international companies not actually british owned when you look at the shareholding 
but the 250 companies are more companies operating in the uk which is why the effect on them will be more serious 

but I think you will find that the bank of england was nationalised in 1946 , and is now owned by the treasury solicitor on behalf of the government so the quick answer is that the 250 million just goes on to our national dept , in other words joe public pays one way or the other


----------



## maingate (Jul 10, 2016)

lebesset said:


> well the footsie 100 companies are actually mostly large international companies not actually british owned when you look at the shareholding
> but the 250 companies are more companies operating in the uk which is why the effect on them will be more serious
> 
> but I think you will find that the bank of england was nationalised in 1946 , and is now owned by the treasury solicitor on behalf of the government so the quick answer is that the 250 million just goes on to our national dept , in other words joe public pays one way or the other



You are correct about the FTSE 250 being affected more than the FTSE 100. It has increased in value at 3 times the rate of the FTSE 100. Both of them are close to an all time high for 2016.

Details here. BBC NEWS | Business | Market Data | Stock Markets


----------



## Tezza (Jul 10, 2016)

hairydog said:


> I'm not sure that is the case. The Remain side made a really terrible job of presenting thier case, and some of their assessments were presented with a misleading level of precision, but I don't thik I identified a single "lie" on the remain side. If anything, they underplayed the problems as part of their failed "Project Fear".
> 
> I've heard several Leave supporters say there were lies on both sides. But so far none has given an example of a Remain lie. Some Remain predictions haven't happened yet, but almost certainly will.


I was remain and I'm sure camerwrong said ww3 could start if we leave. Also Gideot announced he would be holding a emergency brexit budget. Then there was turkey. They are holding talks as we speak to get them in. So yes...lots of lies and scaremongering on both sides.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 10, 2016)

maingate said:


> You are correct about the FTSE 250 being affected more than the FTSE 100. It has increased in value at 3 times the rate of the FTSE 100. Both of them are close to an all time high for 2016.
> 
> Details here. BBC NEWS | Business | Market Data | Stock Markets


Yes but surely that is because of QE. Not because the markets like the thought of our economy.


----------



## mark61 (Jul 10, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Yes but surely that is because of QE. Not because the markets like the thought of our economy.




Probably so. Good use of money for once I'd say.

Lets not forget the huge amounts of QE the likes of JPMorgan, GoldmanSachs and the rest of them received, or benefited from.

Yes, all huge backers of the remain campaign. I wonder why.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 10, 2016)

maingate said:


> You are correct about the FTSE 250 being affected more than the FTSE 100. It has increased in value at 3 times the rate of the FTSE 100. Both of them are close to an all time high for 2016.
> 
> Details here. BBC NEWS | Business | Market Data | Stock Markets



Something else to add to that.....

Don't blame our current financial woes on Brexit


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 10, 2016)

runnach said:


> Of course not...............



Here you go Terry, doesn't exactly paint a rosy picture does it?

Woman's fallopian tube was cut instead of appendix as surgery blunders DOUBLE in three years | Daily Mail Online


----------



## maingate (Jul 10, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Yes but surely that is because of QE. Not because the markets like the thought of our economy.



QE was publicly announced by Mark Carney to lessen the great shock to the 'Money Men' who confidently expected a Remain vote and panicked when they got it wrong. It was basically to give confidence back to these packrats that run the Financial Institutions.

Oue economy is doing far better than European countries. The Banks are about to fold in Italy, Germany is doing badly and France is not far from bankruptcy either. All of these are longstanding problems and nothing to do with Brexit. The link that Aquaticarian gave shows the background to this.

As for the Pound being low, that is a great advantage to exporters, although there is a downside to imported goods getting more expensive. Again, there is more information in the link I referred to earlier.

The Pound might be 10% weaker but given the stagnation in Europe, the Euro is artificially high and Markets are dropping in the Eurozone. The Euro cannot react like single currencies. That might be good in boom times but not in a recession.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 10, 2016)

maingate said:


> You are correct about the FTSE 250 being affected more than the FTSE 100. It has increased in value at 3 times the rate of the FTSE 100. Both of them are close to an all time high for 2016.
> 
> Details here. BBC NEWS | Business | Market Data | Stock Markets




Taken from the above link...for the last 3 months up to Friday


ftse250


----------



## maingate (Jul 10, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Taken from the above link...for the last 3 months up to FridayView attachment 43436
> 
> ftse250



FTSE 250 up 278.9 points this week (3.78%). It will not be long before it is at a new yearly high as it often mirrors the FTSE 100.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 10, 2016)

Brexit bounce-back: FTSE up, mortgages down, pensions up | Personal Finance | Finance | Daily Express


----------



## Tezza (Jul 10, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Brexit bounce-back: FTSE up, mortgages down, pensions up | Personal Finance | Finance | Daily Express


The majority of the comments on this link see things a bit ( lot) different to the journalist.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 10, 2016)

runnach said:


> Interesting read from the most powerful woman in Europe. Twice, Germany has tried to rule Europe, now trying again through stealth, but we saw this coming, sooner we are away from power hungry Germany, the better!
> 
> Merkel expects new British PM to launch formal EU exit talks | Reuters
> 
> ...



Such a pity that Saudi Arabia and other neighbouring countries aren't so magnanimous


----------



## maingate (Jul 10, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Such a pity that Saudi Arabia and other neighbouring countries aren't so magnanimous



The Syrian refugees are Shia and Saudi is ruled by a minority Sunni elite.

Shia dominated Iran could do more than inflame the situation by backing Assad. They are happy for Assad to kill fellow Shia Muslims ...... and we think our Politics is dirty.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 10, 2016)

maingate said:


> The Syrian refugees are Shia and Saudi is ruled by a minority Sunni elite.
> 
> Shia dominated Iran could do more than inflame the situation by backing Assad. They are happy for Assad to kill fellow Shia Muslims ...... and we think our Politics is dirty.



Pffft religion eh? Here was me thinking that Islam was supposedly a peaceful religion yet here they are killing each other off by the thousands because of a difference of opinion... I do wonder what their God is thinking of the whole mess he's created....


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 10, 2016)

hairydog said:


> As far as I know, most religions reckon that theirs os the only true God. At most, only one of them can be right.



Well he's taking his time in making that known....


----------



## Robmac (Jul 10, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> Well he's taking his time in making that known....



Give me a chance Derek.

I'm a busy old deity you know!


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 10, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Give me a chance Derek.
> 
> I'm a busy old deity you know!



Sorry to have to break the news to you mate but you're a legend not a deity.....:lol-053:


----------



## Haaamster (Jul 10, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Give me a chance Derek.
> 
> I'm a busy old deity you know!



A god is prayed to, whereas you prey on others,..............at the bar


----------



## Robmac (Jul 10, 2016)

Haaamster said:


> A god is prayed to, whereas you prey on others,..............at the bar



:mad1:

Lightning strike - GIF on Imgur

:mad1:


----------



## WellWornTraveller (Jul 10, 2016)

Still the same old krap from the remainers and those that do not live in the U.K. then.

Bernie


----------



## El Veterano (Jul 11, 2016)

A pretty pointless exercise by the Brexitiers on here telling us that the pound has bounced back, will be/is at an all time high, and showing us all sorts of graphs to prove it - while all this is going on they seem to have conveniently forgotten that we are STILL IN THE EU! And we will be for at least the next 2 years.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Just read that ukip are demanding that Farage is part of the negioating team on brexit.
> thats right , a unelected mp making laws for us.
> ohhhh the irony.



He is an elected MEP. I would have thought that more than enough for you Tezza.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

barryd said:


> Why are so many changing their minds then?  Wales who voted out in a recent poll have swung the opposite way as have many others all over the UK.  The reason?  Many really either didnt know what they were voting for, believed the rubbish about so called "project fear" which is already coming true, wanted to protest vote (unbelievable in a referendum) and believed the lies about the £350m going to the NHS, that immigration would be reduced and that we didnt need the single market, now all gone back on.
> 
> Its not condescending as the British public simply were not qualified to vote on such a complex decision.  Thats why we vote in elected governments to make such complex decisions on our behalf.  How would  you feel if you needed open heart surgery and you turned up on the slab and the surgeon said "This is Fred from the canteen, we are letting him have a go today, you ok with that?"
> 
> Interesting that you should call me a lefty communist.  I do not recall me ever putting my cards on the table as to which way my political leanings are.  There are plenty of Tories that are remainers, plenty of true blue businessmen as well. Just saying.



Has there been another referendum that I wasn't aware of?


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

hairydog said:


> As far as I know, most religions reckon that theirs os the only true God. At most, only one of them can be right.



Mohammed stated there is only one god. He made the point that any other religion that believes in one god must therefore believe in the same god; the name they choose to give god being irrelevant. Christians believe in a trinity of gods, therein lies another reason for men to kill each other. Don't you love religion?


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> He is an elected MEP. I would have thought that more than enough for you Tezza.


yes he is ......and as far as I know I could be wrong but he has no jurisdiction in our law making. Come to that you would have thought he had no jurisdiction in Europe law making going by the number of times he turned up and actually worked for his pay.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> yes he is ......and as far as I know I could be wrong but he has no jurisdiction in our law making. Come to that you would have thought he had no jurisdiction in Europe law making going by the number of times he turned up and actually worked for his pay.



Are you suggesting that Members of the European Parliament should have no involvement with the process of leaving the European Union, or is it just Nigel Farage you have difficulty with?


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

I'm suggesting that negioatiators are being hired from around the world. Fact. An mp or MEP's do not have the qualifications to do the job. They will only be there to say if the deals are acceptable or not. An mp or MEP's  don't know all the laws that might pertain in any negioated deals . So it's not just Farage but all MEP's and Mp's


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> I'm suggesting that negioatiators are being hired from around the world. Fact.An mp or MEP's do not have the qualifications to do the job.They will only be there to say if the deals are acceptable or not. An mp or MEP's  don't know all the laws that might pertain in any negioated deals . So it's not just Farage but all MEP's and Mp's



It isn't a fact though is it? I understand that New Zealand has offered to lend its expertise on trade negotiating to our Government. This work was done by the Civil Service but as the process was usurped by the EU, the UK's ability to understand and negotiate with countries beyond the EU has been allowed to wither on the vine.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> It isn't a fact though is it? I understand that New Zealand has offered to lend its expertise on trade negotiating to our Government. This work was done by the Civil Service but as the process was usurped by the EU, the UK's ability to understand and negotiate with countries beyond the EU has been allowed to wither on the vine.



http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...trade-negotiators_uk_57713ad3e4b0d257114a18b2

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/ar...going-to-have-to-hire-foreigners--ZyxdleNdBrW

Britain to hire foreign trade negotiators after Brexit, says Hammond | Reuters

Britain to hire foreign trade negotiators after Brexit, says Hammond | Daily Mail Online

i think that's fact enough


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

And here is the New Zealand offer... But it hasn't be accepted ....yet . And a lot of maybe's.

New Zealand offers UK its top trade negotiators for post-Brexit deals


----------



## barryd (Jul 11, 2016)

The campaign to prevent Brexit it appears is gathering a good head of steam.

Parliament should make final decision on whether to leave EU, barristers say | Politics | The Guardian

And the first legal attempt to prevent Brexit. First legal attempt to prevent Brexit set for preliminary hearing | Politics | The Guardian

Theresa May might well be saying Brexit means Brexit but then we all know how much you can not take for granted what any politician says today as they change their minds the very next day.  £350m NHS, Immigration, single market etc.

It would seem though invoking Article 50 may not be her decision to make if the legal action has legs.


----------



## barryd (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> Has there been another referendum that I wasn't aware of?



No but there have been several polls and more to come.  Wales has changed its mind over Brexit and would now vote to stay in the EU, poll finds | UK Politics | News | The Independent

Bregret / Regrexit is spreading as more and more people wake up to the fact that they made a mistake.


----------



## Robmac (Jul 11, 2016)

barryd said:


> No but there have been several polls and more to come.  Wales has changed its mind over Brexit and would now vote to stay in the EU, poll finds | UK Politics | News | The Independent
> 
> Bregret / Regrexit is spreading as more and more people wake up to the fact that they made a mistake.



I don't trust any polls following the referendum Barry. They can be manipulated by aiming at a certain audience.

For example, I could hold a poll in my local pub, I guarantee it would be 95% in favour of Brexit!


----------



## Fletch6 (Jul 11, 2016)

barryd said:


> The campaign to prevent Brexit it appears is gathering a good head of steam.
> 
> Parliament should make final decision on whether to leave EU, barristers say | Politics | The Guardian
> 
> ...




It's just solicitors filling their pockets with fools money. The referendum is finished, Mrs May's speech this morning confirmed it very clearly.
You remind me of Murphy in the film "Murphy's War"
Accept the democracy we live in or bugger off and live in the EU. No offense.


----------



## barryd (Jul 11, 2016)

Fletch6 said:


> It's just solicitors filling their pockets with fools money. The referendum is finished, *Mrs May's speech this morning confirmed it very clearly.*
> You remind me of Murphy in the film "Murphy's War"
> Accept the democracy we live in or bugger off and live in the EU. No offense.



LOL! Just like all the speeches by Boris and Nigel spouting endless lies to con people into voting for stuff they backtracked on the very next day?  Thats not democracy which is why half the country will continue not to accept it.

As for buggering off and living in Europe well if you get your way (And the jury is still out) I probably wont have that option will I?   Except we wont be leaving properly now anyway even if "Brexit does mean Brexit" as your almost certainly going to end up with a Pro remain cabinet now which if its allowed to trigger article 50 will almost certainly move towards us staying in the single market and the EEA which is what most of us said would happen all along.  Of course that means free movement and paying in so maybe ill still be able to bugger off so every cloud an all that.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...trade-negotiators_uk_57713ad3e4b0d257114a18b2
> 
> http://indy100.independent.co.uk/ar...going-to-have-to-hire-foreigners--ZyxdleNdBrW
> 
> ...



No it isn't Tezza. Phillip Hammond stating that the Government will 'look to hire' foreign trade negotiators is far from a done deal. Sorry to be such a Gradgrind on this but a Tory Government Minister saying something should be done is a long, long way from that something actually being done. But by all means keep referring me to all that 'media' that you stated you have no belief in.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> And here is the New Zealand offer... But it hasn't be accepted ....yet . And a lot of maybe's.
> 
> New Zealand offers UK its top trade negotiators for post-Brexit deals



I don't understand your point on this. It merely agrees with what I said.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

barryd said:


> The campaign to prevent Brexit it appears is gathering a good head of steam.
> 
> Parliament should make final decision on whether to leave EU, barristers say | Politics | The Guardian
> 
> ...



This should keep £sterling low against the dollar and the FT250 in disarray for a good many years to come whilst the matter is in Court proceedings. At least we will be able to blame the Remainers for that


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> No it isn't Tezza. Phillip Hammond stating that the Government will 'look to hire' foreign trade negotiators is far from a done deal. Sorry to be such a Gradgrind on this but a Tory Government Minister saying something should be done is a long, long way from that something actually being done. But by all means keep referring me to all that 'media' that you stated you have no belief in.


You said New Zealand have offered...yes they have...how many have they offered? By the looks of it we need 500-600. And I posted articles that quoted the man in charge. So I can go by nothing else at this moment. You on the other hand have just mentioned 1 country with no link to confirm, so I had to provide the link that you were to lazy to do. 
You keep going on about media....I distrust a lot of it.....so I quote from a variety of sources. Whereas you quote from ?

So unless you can find that I or the media I quoted is wrong you don't really have an arguement do you?
By the way in case you didn't know but FB, Twitter, blogs are all media. And I try and get a balanced view from everywhere and anywhere. Not just murdochs view. Have a great day.


----------



## Byronic (Jul 11, 2016)

That,ll be fine. One Kiwi is worth at least 10 of any other nationality


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> You said New Zealand have offered...yes they have...how many have they offered? By the looks of it we need 500-600. And I posted articles that quoted the man in charge. So I can go by nothing else at this moment. You on the other hand have just mentioned 1 country with no link to confirm, so I had to provide the link that you were to lazy to do.
> You keep going on about media....I distrust a lot of it.....so I quote from a variety of sources. Whereas you quote from ?
> 
> So unless you can find that I or the media I quoted is wrong you don't really have an arguement do you?
> By the way in case you didn't know but FB, Twitter, blogs are all media. And I try and get a balanced view from everywhere and anywhere. Not just murdochs view. Have a great day.



I wasn't aware that this forum was subject to the Harvard Convention. I really must try harder.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

Couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> You said New Zealand have offered...yes they have...how many have they offered? By the looks of it we need 500-600. And I posted articles that quoted the man in charge. So I can go by nothing else at this moment. You on the other hand have just mentioned 1 country with no link to confirm, so I had to provide the link that you were to lazy to do.
> You keep going on about media....I distrust a lot of it.....so I quote from a variety of sources. Whereas you quote from ?
> 
> So unless you can find that I or the media I quoted is wrong you don't really have an arguement do you?
> By the way in case you didn't know but FB, Twitter, blogs are all media. And I try and get a balanced view from everywhere and anywhere. Not just murdochs view. Have a great day.



I would never say 'have' in a singular context. It goes against the Harvard Convention. See Tezza, I am trying my best.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> I would never say 'have' in a singular context. It goes against the Harvard Convention. See Tezza, I am trying my best.


Well you have long way to go......maybe you should hire negioaters to try and write your posts.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

The best way to keep track of have vs. has is to think of the pronouns that each verb uses.
Has uses the pronouns he, she, and it.
Have uses the pronouns I, you, we, they.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

hairydog said:


> Maybe he meant "Both Islands of New Zealand"?



Still a single state


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

hairydog said:


> As far as I know, in the Holy Trinity, only one of the three is God.



As a good Catholic I was taught that there is God the Father, God the son and God the Holy Ghost.

As we would say at a Catholic funeral 'In the name of the father, and of the son, and into the hole he goes'.


----------



## barryd (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> This should keep £sterling low against the dollar and the FT250 in disarray for a good many years to come whilst the matter is in Court proceedings. At least we will be able to blame the Remainers for that



If that happens I think we can thank David Cameron for that.  He called the bloody Referendum just so he could get into power before anybody had a clue about what it all meant.  I would not be surprised if we are he laughing stock of the world its all been such a shambles.  The only thing going on thats equally as daft is the Americans possibly voting that idiot Trump into the White House.  For a while there it looked like we may have Boris in number 10 and The Donald running America. At least one half of that nightmare has now gone the distance (For now).


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Well you have long way to go......maybe you should hire negioaters to try and write your posts.



Why?


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

barryd said:


> If that happens I think we can thank David Cameron for that.  He called the bloody Referendum just so he could get into power before anybody had a clue about what it all meant.  I would not be surprised if we are he laughing stock of the world its all been such a shambles.  The only thing going on thats equally as daft is the Americans possibly voting that idiot Trump into the White House.  For a while there it looked like we may have Boris in number 10 and The Donald running America. At least one half of that nightmare has now gone the distance (For now).



I totally agree. Cameron offered us the vote in the sure and certain knowledge that he would be in a coalition with the Liberal Democrats and he would never have to deliver on his promise. As a result a once in a  lifetime chance was offered to me to engage in a truly democratic act concerning the EU and by God I wasn't going to miss it.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> Still a single state


And the goverment is made up of people....so then it would be " they"


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> Why?


 Because their not good. Simples really. You try to pick me up on things and by doing so make yourself look .....well....I will leave that for others.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Because their not good. Simples really. You try to pick me up on things and by doing so make yourself look .....well....I will leave that for others.



You mean they don't sit well with your psychological schema?


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> And the goverment is made up of people....so then it would be " they"



No Tezza, a government is a single entity.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

To be honest...I don't like your posts. See honesty. No big words. Not trying to nitpick like you do when your losing the arguement .  So carry on....and I will carry on with what I do. Have a great day now you hear.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> No Tezza, a government is a single entity.


I disagree .. A goverment is made up of people....so it is a they. But whatever. New Zealand offered....better for you now???  So the arguement on have or has is over. But my point still stands. So basically I said we are hiring people fact.myou said it was not. I pointed to a variety of media sources to confirm what I said you pointed to ..ohhhhhhh that's right nothing zilch nada to confirm what you said. Game set and match. Now run along with the others that don't like it being shoved up them.


----------



## Wooie1958 (Jul 11, 2016)

The couple of hundreds euros left on my Caxton FX card is worth more very day    :dance:


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

Wooie1958 said:


> The couple of hundreds euros left on my Caxton FX card is worth more very day    :dance:



yes mine too and that would be great if weren't going away again next month. The rate right now is 1.16 that's on revolut so I'm guessing about 1.12 or thereabouts in the post office or similar places.

edit......just checked PO and its 1.14


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> I disagree .. A goverment is made up of people....so it is a they. But whatever. New Zealand offered....better for you now???  So the arguement on have or has is over. But my point still stands. So basically I said we are hiring people fact.myou said it was not. I pointed to a variety of media sources to confirm what I said you pointed to ..ohhhhhhh that's right nothing zilch nada to confirm what you said. Game set and match. Now run along with the others that don't like it being shoved up them.



Disagree all you want and for as long and loud as you want Tezza. Stamp your feet if you wish. It still won't make you right.


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> To be honest...I don't like your posts. See honesty. No big words. Not trying to nitpick like you do when your losing the arguement .  So carry on....and I will carry on with what I do. Have a great day now you hear.



We are communicating electronically in print Tezza, why would you think I can hear you?


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> We are communicating electronically in print Tezza, why would you think I can hear you?


:raofl::lol-049:


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> We are communicating electronically in print Tezza, why would you think I can hear you?


Ohh your wit knows no bounds.....had to correct predictive text then...but I prefer what it wrote and agree with it.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> We are communicating electronically in print Tezza, why would you think I can hear you?


Again you try and be funny...but your only a showing yourself up. Keep going though people are getting the measure of you. &#55357;&#56725;


----------



## Wooie1958 (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> yes mine too and that would be great if weren't going away again next month. The rate right now is 1.16 that's on revolut so I'm guessing about 1.12 or thereabouts in the post office or similar places.
> 
> edit......just checked PO and its 1.14





We would normally be going back abroad in September and that`s why we just leave any euros on it.

Got 1.4105 earlier this year and topped up whilst abroad at 1.3010, once again i wished i`d put more on it    :idea:


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

Wooie1958 said:


> We would normally be going back abroad in September and that`s why we just leave any euros on it.
> 
> Got 1.4105 earlier this year and topped up whilst abroad at 1.3010, once again i wished i`d put more on it    :idea:


Yes I got mine at 1.30 but was hoping it would creep back so only changed £500 . Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it lol. Now I'm hanging on hoping something will take it up to 1.20 and if it does I'm going to exchange a few years worth of trips.


----------



## Fazerloz (Jul 11, 2016)

We have enough left for another trip. After that there`s always dear old blighty.


----------



## vwalan (Jul 11, 2016)

all i can say is on 08 nov 2012 i only got 117euro to the pound at portsmouth ferry terminal .it was run by travelex . i even got them to ring their head quarters as they were only offering 116 at the counter. so its not really that bad at the moment . yes this time last year was great. i got 139 but even that was a big drop from when it all started . 
just take loads of dried and tinned food from uk as food is getting expensive abroad.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 11, 2016)

jamesmarshall said:


> Disagree all you want and for as long and loud as you want Tezza. Stamp your feet if you wish. It still won't make you right.


Ohhhhh take a look and learn some English....goverment can be both singular or plural. Now I googled it . I suggest you do the same. I will await your apology .

like
like
like

edit....and forvthe uneducated like you got enjoy hahaha


----------



## alcam (Jul 11, 2016)

vwalan said:


> all i can say is on 08 nov 2012 i only got 117euro to the pound at portsmouth ferry terminal .it was run by travelex . i even got them to ring their head quarters as they were only offering 116 at the counter. so its not really that bad at the moment . yes this time last year was great. i got 139 but even that was a big drop from when it all started .
> just take loads of dried and tinned food from uk as food is getting expensive abroad.



I would think most dealers beat travelex by a fair distance at any time


----------



## vwalan (Jul 11, 2016)

alcam said:


> I would think most dealers beat travelex by a fair distance at any time



possibly . i normally use brittany ferries change over at plymouth . but that year they moved the crossing so i just had to change some cash. like i said last year at plymouth i got 139 euro tio the pound . 
but in 2009 when in maroc the pound really fell. 
luckily i had already got euro,s and dirhams . 
it was really to show that it does fluctuate . but without the press saying alot nobody takes any notice . 
i just happened to find the slip i had in 2012 . it was mixed in with some of the vehicle papers . 
just thought it interesting .


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Ohhhhh take a look and *learn some English*....goverment can be both singular or plural. Now I googled it . I suggest you do the same. I will await your apology .
> 
> like
> like
> ...



??


----------



## Robmac (Jul 11, 2016)

Tezza said:


> Ohhhhh take a look and learn some English....goverment can be both singular or plural..............



Only when there's a coalition!


----------



## alcam (Jul 11, 2016)

vwalan said:


> possibly . i normally use brittany ferries change over at plymouth . but that year they moved the crossing so i just had to change some cash. like i said last year at plymouth i got 139 euro tio the pound .
> but in 2009 when in maroc the pound really fell.
> luckily i had already got euro,s and dirhams .
> it was really to show that it does fluctuate . but without the press saying alot nobody takes any notice .
> ...



Understand .  I had to do the same with travelex once , was quite shocked


----------



## jamesmarshall (Jul 11, 2016)

Aquaticaquarian said:


> ??



I think he means government


----------



## Haaamster (Jul 16, 2016)

Oh dear.

European Union: America cools on TTIP deal post-Brexit as Donald Tusk insults China | World | News | Daily Express


----------



## WellWornTraveller (Jul 16, 2016)

And yours does then?

Bernie.


----------



## hextal (Jul 16, 2016)

:lol-053:I can't even see the floor any more due to the amount of toys and dummies strewn about the place.

Now, play nice or you'll all go to bed early, without any trade deals....


----------



## Tezza (Jul 17, 2016)

Ok oK maybe i used the wrong word.

"The government have" is British usage. It is possible to see either "The government has" or "The government have" in BE depending on whether the writer views the government as a collective body or a collection of individuals.


----------



## Tezza (Jul 17, 2016)

runnach said:


> Thank feck I'm just a welder!!


Wish i had done better in school  then i could have joined the grammar police. Might have been promoted to FBI (* forum bureau of investigation *)


----------



## tidewatcher (Jul 17, 2016)

*Grammer*



runnach said:


> Thank feck I'm just a welder!!



Last week I couldn't spell engineer, now I are one.........


----------



## The laird (Jul 17, 2016)

Is this singular or plural may I ask


----------



## Tezza33 (Jul 18, 2016)

Isn't 'this' the plural of 'thi' or am I not taking this seriously


----------



## Tezza (Jul 18, 2016)

hairydog said:


> No, it is most definitely not. If there is only one government, "has" is the only correct option. Yes, there are many, many people with a poor grasp of their native language, but there is no doubt in this case. "have" is wrong, plain and simple.


Wow....whatever....people are being killed around the world and it bothers more people on here on using the exact word. get a grip and get more concerned about what is happening under our noses


----------



## Tezza33 (Jul 18, 2016)

Sterling isn't worth as much now either


----------



## Tezza (Jul 18, 2016)

I understand all that. But I am not writing a cv or applying for a job. Nigh on everybody on here uses lol and it is accepted. So are a lot of other words and instances. I write hahahaha and people go on one because of it. But when i wrote letters before computers ( informal) then I would use hahah often.I dont consider a forum formal.Also some people on here at far worse than me.Its just nit picking as they have run out of arguements.


----------



## alcam (Jul 18, 2016)

Tezza said:


> I understand all that. But I am not writing a cv or applying for a job. Nigh on everybody on here uses lol and it is accepted. So are a lot of other words and instances. I write hahahaha and people go on one because of it. But when i wrote letters before computers ( informal) then I would use hahah often.I dont consider a forum formal.Also some people on here at far worse than me.Its just nit picking as they have run out of arguements.[/Q]
> 
> dontletthe*******sgetyoutezzaiforonealwaysunderstandyouloudandclearsorrycantfindmyfuckinfullstoporcomma


----------



## Deadsfo (Jul 18, 2016)

This report regarding boys falling behind girls of the same age of about 5yrs old does'nt indicate anything about parents , boys are falling behind  girls ,your suggestion would mean parents of girls are ok but parents of boys need educating ,I think its just boys, they lag behind girls in ability most of the way through there schooling and generally catch up in the later years.


----------



## Deadsfo (Jul 19, 2016)

I agree there will always be parents who dont give a monkeys ,we also made sure all our kids and now are grandkids had the basics covered before they went to primary school so they could hit the ground running so to speak ,its a bit of a puzzle the boy girl thing in education.One thing is kids start school at a much earliar age nowadays ,they are in 'reception' class at three'ish and I dont think there are enough teachers at that level to help them learn ,they seem to spend the day colouring or just playing ,whereas when kids started at 5 my wife gave our kids the one on one teaching of the basics ,and there could be a possibility that boys benefit more from mothers teaching than being in a crowd,little girls being more gregarious


----------



## maingate (Jul 20, 2016)

I see the IMF (who forecast terrible things if there was a Brexit vote) have now completely changed their tune. They expect the UK economy to slow down initially but still to outperform Germany and France.

As for School performances, boys do worse since they stopped Streaming Classes. Everyone works at the pace of the slowest child. My Lad was bored stiff, hated School and consequently left with no qualifications. He went to College and never failed another Exam. What makes me laugh nowadays are his efforts to ensure his 2 Sons get qualifications. History is repeating itself as they have both been voted top of their Group at College. They both were awarded 'Best Engineering Student' awards.


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 20, 2016)

Pffft IMF!!

IMF admit they got it wrong with Brexit warnings over speed of economy will grow fth | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 20, 2016)

Woohoo...

FTSE 100 smashes 6,700 and pound breaks $1.31 as Bank of England survey shows 'no clear evidence' of sharp Brexit slowdown


----------



## barryd (Jul 20, 2016)

What are you all cheering about?  There is something you need to know.  We are still in the European Union.  Brexit has not happened yet and if it does its a long way off and the swivel eyed loonies who have been put in place by Theresa to bugger it all up so she cant be blamed have probably made the markets realise that its bound to be business as usual. 

The Markets take a short view on such things and as its unlikely that article 50 will be invoked until after the French and German elections (June and October 2017) the economy may well recover.  It went quickly downhill because Cameron made out before the vote that he would trigger it straight away.  

Its a bit too early to start celebrating both avoiding a recession and ever leaving the EU to be honest.


----------



## Pauljenny (Jul 20, 2016)

barryd said:


> What are you all cheering about?  There is something you need to know.  We are still in the European Union.  Brexit has not happened yet and if it does its a long way off and the swivel eyed loonies who have been put in place by Theresa to bugger it all up so she cant be blamed have probably made the markets realise that its bound to be business as usual.
> 
> The Markets take a short view on such things and as its unlikely that article 50 will be invoked until after the French and German elections (June and October 2017) the economy may well recover.  It went quickly downhill because Cameron made out before the vote that he would trigger it straight away.
> 
> Its a bit too early to start celebrating both avoiding a recession and ever leaving the EU to be honest.



Always look on the bright side. Te dum te dum te diddly diddly dum.

Me and my Mrs were only saying, over breakfast, things seemed to be looking up because of all the recent activity.
It's given the political elite a well deserved kick up the@rse.


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## Aquaticaquarian (Jul 20, 2016)

barryd said:


> What are you all cheering about?  There is something you need to know.  We are still in the European Union.  Brexit has not happened yet and if it does its a long way off and the swivel eyed loonies who have been put in place by Theresa to bugger it all up so she cant be blamed have probably made the markets realise that its bound to be business as usual.
> 
> The Markets take a short view on such things and as its unlikely that article 50 will be invoked until after the French and German elections (June and October 2017) the economy may well recover.  It went quickly downhill because Cameron made out before the vote that he would trigger it straight away.
> 
> Its a bit too early to start celebrating both avoiding a recession and ever leaving the EU to be honest.



Always Look on the Bright Side of Life - Monty Python's Life of Brian - YouTube


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## alcam (Jul 20, 2016)

barryd said:


> What are you all cheering about?  There is something you need to know.  We are still in the European Union.  Brexit has not happened yet and if it does its a long way off and the swivel eyed loonies who have been put in place by Theresa to bugger it all up so she cant be blamed have probably made the markets realise that its bound to be business as usual.
> 
> The Markets take a short view on such things and as its unlikely that article 50 will be invoked until after the French and German elections (June and October 2017) the economy may well recover.  It went quickly downhill because Cameron made out before the vote that he would trigger it straight away.
> 
> Its a bit too early to start celebrating both avoiding a recession and ever leaving the EU to be honest.



Yes the triumphal responses to the everyday vagaries of money markets would appear to show , to put it kindly , a serious lack of understanding of anything to be honest . 
I would have thought the exit would happen long before 2022 as some suggest . When we[?] do exit I sincerely hope we really are financially healthy long term


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