# Kendal town centre



## Croftland1

Cumbria County Council has opened the revamped County Hall Car Park and given permission for Motorhomes.
Modest charges apply during the day, but overnight is free.


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## flying kipper

Great news from the council the bays look a bit small for motorhomes though


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## landoboguy

being next to the boys in bue house should ensure a decent night


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## barge1914

Looking at the overhang in the photo does ‘within bay’ mean wheels within bay?


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## landoboguy

barge1914 said:


> Looking at the overhang in the photo does ‘within bay’ mean wheels within bay?


I often wondered this, then seeing the Trolls on tour thread about the donegal trafiic wardens, seems its axles inside ? but am unsure. I got done at Cheshire Oaks carpark for overhanging the bay, I didnt challenge it.

I remember this though https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-claimed-method-recommended-manufacturer.html


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## in h

barge1914 said:


> Looking at the overhang in the photo does ‘within bay’ mean wheels within bay?


The sign says "parked wholly within" I think that the bit that is parked is the wheels. 
If car parks issued penalties for vehicles with bodywork overhanging some of the lines, almost every vehicle would get one.
I recall that Skipton specifically states "wheels in". But that's a different place!


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## Croftland1

I think as long as you don't encroach on another parking space you will be fine. The spaces aren't big enough to take a motorhome in its entirety so choose one with some dead space behind for overhanging.


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## Croftland1

landoboguy said:


> being next to the boys in bue house should ensure a decent night


It's very safe and quiet too. It's a lovely location next to the river. I've stayed there dozens of times when it was a free car park. Just glad they have made provision for us in the remodelling.


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## landoboguy

Surprised they havent taken the chance to charge overnight a few bob, would make sense and help continue the plan. I just cant help feeling height barriers may be iminent for after 6


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## Canalsman

Note that the Off Street Parking Places Order referred to on the sign prohibits sleeping, camping, cooking or eating in a vehicle.


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## landoboguy

Canalsman said:


> Note that the Off Street Parking Places Order referred to on the sign prohibits sleeping, camping, cooking or eating in a vehicle.


You think they could have made it more clear on the actual sign, and it says "can be viewed at the office" why not just link to it online or list it on the sign?


			https://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Content/Internet/544/43502155832.pdf


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## mickymost

landoboguy said:


> You think they could have made it more clear on the actual sign, and it says "can be viewed at the office" why not just link to it online or list it on the sign?
> 
> 
> https://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Content/Internet/544/43502155832.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 86065




Well spotted landoboguy 
I wondered myself earlier if there was a catch.As Cumbria has been hot lately against motorhomes and overnighting anywhere in the Lakes.Seemed too good to be true.


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## 2cv

That’s very poor to have such a restriction hidden away. It’s a shame as it could have brought quite a lot of business to the town. Thanks for pointing it out.


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## in h

Is the cricket club still taking motorhomes? I heard it was stopping.


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## barge1914

in h said:


> Is the cricket club still taking motorhomes? I heard it was stopping.


We stayed there a month ago, no indication then. We are planning on stopping again next week.


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## Obanboy666

What’s the procedure for parking up at the cricket club ? Who do you pay ? Etc, etc.


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## in h

When I last stayed there, you put the money in a box on the clubhouse wall. That was a while back, though.


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## in h

landoboguy said:


> You think they could have made it more clear on the actual sign, and it says "can be viewed at the office" why not just link to it online or list it on the sign?
> 
> 
> https://www.cumbria.gov.uk/elibrary/Content/Internet/544/43502155832.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 86065


It says you can't any vehicle left in a parking place for sleeping in. But there has been a legal case about this. 
To 'leave' a vehicle in a place, you have to not be there with the vehicle. 
If you are sleeping inside it, you have, by definition, not 'left' it, have you?
That may not be the intention they had in mind when they wrote the rule, but that is what the rule says. 
You can't use any part of the parking place for camping purposes (so no tents in the car park), and you can't sleep in a vehicle that you left in a parking place.
It doesn't say you can't sleep in a vehicle that you haven't left.


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## mickymost

in h said:


> It says you can't any vehicle left in a parking place for sleeping in. But there has been a legal case about this.
> To 'leave' a vehicle in a place, you have to not be there with the vehicle.
> If you are sleeping inside it, you have, by definition, not 'left' it, have you?
> That may not be the intention they had in mind when they wrote the rule, but that is what the rule says.
> You can't use any part of the parking place for camping purposes (so no tents in the car park), and you can't sleep in a vehicle that you left in a parking place.
> It doesn't say you can't sleep in a vehicle that you haven't left.




See your point you are making BUT who in theory wants to test this out? Someone who has a deep pocket maybe.

Can you link somehow to the legal case.Was the fine thrown out?


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## mickymost

check clause 16

16. No person shall use any part of the parking place or any vehicle left in a parking place – (a) for sleeping or camping purposes; (b) for eating or cooking purposes; or (c) for the purposes of servicing or washing any vehicle or part thereof other than is reasonably necessary to enable that vehicle to depart from the parking place.

Its on their rules for parking and pretty clear one will be liable to a fine if the vehicle is slept in.


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## in h

mickymost said:


> Can you link somehow to the legal case.Was the fine thrown out?


I suspect it was Andy Strangman, but I don't have a reference.  Yes, he took it to court and he won.
Remembering something happening is a lot easier than remembering a reference to it!


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## in h

mickymost said:


> 16. No person shall use any part of the parking place or any vehicle* left*


This is the essence of the matter. They could have said "any vehicle parked" but they didn't. "any vehicle left" does not include a vehicle you are still inside, because you haven't left it.


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## mickymost

in h said:


> This is the essence of the matter. They could have said "any vehicle parked" but they didn't. "any vehicle left" does not include a vehicle you are still inside, because you haven't left it.




So personally would you park there and chance sleeping overnight? If a warden came early next morning would you be prepared to argue your case with him/her.Just asking?


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## in h

I don't like sleeping in town centre car parks, so no, I would go to the Cricket Club, or a favourite spot a bit up the road. 
There's no point in arguing with the car park warden. He's just doing his job Take the ticket and dispute it properly.


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## Croftland1

barge1914 said:


> We stayed there a month ago, no indication then. We are planning on stopping again next week.


I stayed at the cricket club last week. No indication of them stopping.


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## Croftland1

Obanboy666 said:


> What’s the procedure for parking up at the cricket club ? Who do you pay ? Etc, etc.


Pay a fiver at the bar


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## in h

Canalsman said:


> Note that the Off Street Parking Places Order referred to on the sign prohibits sleeping, camping, cooking or eating in a vehicle.


It may do, but the sign that gives the rules makes no reference to the contents of that Order, so when you enter into a contract to use the service of their car park by paying, it is not any part of the contract that you adhere to those regulations.


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## Croftland1

Canalsman said:


> Note that the Off Street Parking Places Order referred to on the sign prohibits sleeping, camping, cooking or eating in a vehicle.


Well spotted Chris, thanks


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## Val54

in h said:


> This is the essence of the matter. They could have said "any vehicle parked" but they didn't. "any vehicle left" does not include a vehicle you are still inside, because you haven't left it.


Personally I wouldn't risk it, but the scenario only works for vehicles arriving and leaving outside the payable hours otherwise presumably you would leave the vehicle to buy a parking ticket .........


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## The laird

Obanboy666 said:


> What’s the procedure for parking up at the cricket club ? Who do you pay ? Etc, etc.


I was there after the lockdown was lifted and chatted to the club secretary who is a great auld geezer was just about to deposit my envelope with money when he drove in and gave me a great welcome ,chatted for a bit and he said hurry back no mention of it stopping


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## landoboguy

in h said:


> This is the essence of the matter. They could have said "any vehicle parked" but they didn't. "any vehicle left" does not include a vehicle you are still inside, because you haven't left it.


pretty weak, and to park then go to court to prove it, nah not for me thanks


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## in h

Val54 said:


> Personally I wouldn't risk it, but the scenario only works for vehicles arriving and leaving outside the payable hours otherwise presumably you would leave the vehicle to buy a parking ticket .........


If they managed to catch you asleep inside the vehicle whilst you had left it to buy a ticket, that would be a risk. But somehow I think that impossible.

Once you return to the vehicle with your ticket, it is no longer "left"


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## Val54

in h said:


> If they managed to catch you asleep inside the vehicle whilst you had left it to buy a ticket, that would be a risk. But somehow I think that impossible.
> 
> Once you return to the vehicle with your ticket, it is no longer "left"


Academic really, but any ordinary interpretation of the Council’s wording would mean that it only needed one act of leaving the vehicle, purchasing a ticket means you left the vehicle, whether you are back in it is irrelevant.


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## mickymost

in h said:


> If they managed to catch you asleep inside the vehicle whilst you had left it to buy a ticket, But somehow I think that impossible.




How can you physically be in two places at exactly the same time?               youre right thats impossible


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## mistericeman

mickymost said:


> How can you physically be in two places at exactly the same time?               youre right thats impossible




Schrödingers....... Wild camper?


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## in h

Val54 said:


> Academic really, but any ordinary interpretation of the Council’s wording would mean that it only needed one act of leaving the vehicle, purchasing a ticket means you left the vehicle, whether you are back in it is irrelevant.


"Any vehicle left in a parking space"  Their words, not mine. 
To qualify, "it has to be a 'vehicle', it has to be 'left' and it has to be 'in a parking space'
Not "previously left"
You're right: this is academic, because the board shows the set of rules to follow, and this is not on that list.


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## in h

Val54 said:


> Academic really, but any ordinary interpretation of the Council’s wording would mean that it only needed one act of leaving the vehicle, purchasing a ticket means you left the vehicle, whether you are back in it is irrelevant.


Even if you were asleep when you left it, you would not be sleeping 'in the vehicle'. 
So sleepwalking to the ticket machine would be OK.
I don't accept that the vehicle is 'left' when you get back into it. 
And I don't think any court would have a different opinion, particularly as the Andy Strangman case was specifically about the meaning of that word.


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## Val54

in h said:


> "Any vehicle left in a parking space"  Their words, not mine.
> To qualify, "it has to be a 'vehicle', it has to be 'left' and it has to be 'in a parking space'
> Not "previously left"
> You're right: this is academic, because the board shows the set of rules to follow, and this is not on that list.


It doesn't need to be "previously left" as "left" is in the last tense ......... but hey ho it matters not


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## mistericeman

Here we go again...... ;-)


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## jann

For £5 the Cricket club is fine for overnight, easy walk into town. Not too far to rejoin the motorway after filling up with diesel just up the road at Morrisons


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## in h

I try to avoid motorways. Yes, they're quicker and safer, but they're dull. You go past the interesting places rather than through them.


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## REC

in h said:


> I try to avoid motorways. Yes, they're quicker and safer, but they're dull. You go past the interesting places rather than through them.


Depends on where your destination is and how long you have to get there? Not everyone has limitless time to meander although I am sure most would prefer to go through interesting places, often have to chooses not to?


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## in h

Yes, sometimes you do have to, but in general you don't. 
You can probably go from end to end of Britain in a long day using motorways, or in a day and a half without.
People often hurry because it's habit, not because of real time pressures.
If you can treat the journey as something to savour rather than to rush through, it's much more pleasant.


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## jann

Motorways are good for avoiding busy towns and cities. It is easier to drive past Manchester on the motorway than driving through built up areas that aren't interesting


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## in h

Yes, that's true.


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## mistericeman

jann said:


> Motorways are good for avoiding busy towns and cities. It is easier to drive past Manchester on the motorway than driving through built up areas that aren't interesting



Pretty much ANYTHING is better than driving through Manchester ;-)


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## in h

Manchester, like many other built up areas, has some very interesting bits. Few motorways are as interesting; you just travel faster (and further, quite often).


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## The laird

Suppose it's ok if your a Sunday motorist


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## in h

Not Mr Toad, you mean? I try not to travel at peak times, that's for sure. Worked from home (or the motorhome) for decades, so no 'rush hour' travel for me.


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## antiquesam

in h said:


> Manchester, like many other built up areas, has some very interesting bits. Few motorways are as interesting; you just travel faster (and further, quite often).


The problem is that going through a busy town you spend most of the time reading road signs and concentrating on the lights and roundabouts and see very little, but end up quite tired. I have tried telling the satnav to avoid motorways on long runs but after grinding through several towns I wish I hadn't.


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## jacquigem

A bit of each for us usually.


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## Deleted member 66875

This is great and certainly one I'll try over the winter.  I like Kendal,,, stayed over in the cricket club car park a few times.


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