# Thinking of buying 8 month old motorhome but it has crack in cab seal



## Jez (Jan 13, 2013)

Hello World! First post so be gentle with me. After years of debating we've gone active about buying a motorhome. We have hired and read and debated and now want to part with some cash. 

We've just been to look at a CI Carioca 695 Family coachbuilt which is an ex rental and is only nine months old. Okay it has some cosmetic stuff which I felt was rather bad given it was such a young camper, but my biggest concern was the cracks in the seal around the join between cab body and the plastic "bit" that consists of the cab roof. 

Would really value any opinions on what this may might mean. It seems a little premature from the research I've done for this seal to go so quickly. In those nine months, the camper has done over 15000 miles so it may well be that this is quite normal for that kind of mileage. the comes with lots of extras and is a reasonable price (if we haggle a bit  but that crack in the seal has me worried!

Also any general opinions of CI motorhomes would be equally valuable.

And we love wild camping! Last hire we found an excellent spot just outside Wincanton on the A303. Will dig out the details from the map for my next post so there's a bit of excitement for you all 

All the best
Jez


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## Wooie1958 (Jan 13, 2013)

Most Rental Motorhomes have a very very hard life and having done 15,000 miles in nine months this is no exception.

Because it is only 9 months old it will not have any Service History on either the Base Vehicle or the Habitation Side.

I would say get a Full Inspection done independently and particularly a Damp Test if the dealer isn`t keen on that then walk away.

It is your hard earned money and they are not cheap.

Please be very very very careful.


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## Jez (Jan 13, 2013)

Wooie1958 said:


> Most Rental Motorhomes have a very very hard life and having done 15,000 miles in nine months this is no exception.
> 
> Because it is only 9 months old it will not have any Service History on either the Base Vehicle or the Habitation Side.
> 
> ...



I KNEW I'd picked the right forum! Thanks hugely for your reply. When we were at the camping show last year at the NEC we picked up a card from this network of chappies who parachute in a local expert upon receipt of a lump-o-dosh and we have plans to light the blue touchpaper on these guys once we've agreed a price. From what I'm reading though, these seals do go (on a regular basis?) approx every three years (very ballpark of course) but are not huge issues to resolve. Are they cosmetic with the bulk of the weather-proofing further in or do they genuinely keep the water out?


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## Makzine (Jan 13, 2013)

If your not completely happy walk away, there will be loads more to look at.  :wave:


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## Neckender (Jan 13, 2013)

We have a 2011 Auto Roller same manufacturer as Ci and we are very pleased with it, if it is only 9months old surely it still has at least 2 years warranty to go.

John.

Ps welcome to  the forum.


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## Deleted member 21686 (Jan 13, 2013)

I agree with wooie these rental jobs get a hammering and regarding the cracks I would be very wary it may have had a bump.

Welome to the forum.


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## Jez (Jan 13, 2013)

artheytrate said:


> We have a 2011 Auto Roller same manufacturer as Ci and we are very pleased with it, if it is only 9months old surely it still has at least 2 years warranty to go.
> 
> John.
> 
> Ps welcome to  the forum.



Hi John. Thanks for your welcome and for yours and other posts. That's a very valid point! In talking about this and other issues with the owner they said that all these things would be repaired. However there was no mention of warranty based repair so I'm wondering if something has happened that would not make it through warranty. i.e. some evidence that I missed that would shine out to the manufacturer as an indication of excessive wear and tear.

I feel (once we have a price agreed) that I need to light the aforementioned blue touch paper and see what an expert would have to say.

All the best
Jez


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## Randonneur (Jan 13, 2013)

Hello Jez, welcome to the forum.

Why do you need to agree a price first? If the seller is not happy for you to have an independent inspection and then agree a price based on those results if you still want to buy, then I would walk away.

As has already been said, it may have had a bump and the cab and body are out of line so causing the crack in the seal. An independent inspection should find evidence of this and then you can factor in the repair costs if you still decide to buy.

Personally speaking, I would walk away and look elsewhere. There are plenty of motorhomes on the market these days and just after christmas is a time when a lot of people are looking to sell to get money to pay bills etc.

Be very careful, it's too easy to end up with a money pit that you will grow to hate and can't sell.

Hope this is helpful to you.


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## Jez (Jan 13, 2013)

Randonneur said:


> Hello Jez, welcome to the forum.
> 
> Why do you need to agree a price first? If the seller is not happy for you to have an independent inspection and then agree a price based on those results if you still want to buy, then I would walk away.
> 
> ...




It is. Thank you. It's a good deal but I'm beginning to get that poisoned chalice feel.


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## Wooie1958 (Jan 13, 2013)

Hi Jez,

One of the main reason why " Hire Companies " sell of their Motorhomes before they are 12 months old is that they then do not have to get
involved with any " Servicing " or " Habitation Checks " etc.etc.

I cannot emphasize it enough that you need someone who really knows what they are doing to go over it with a " Fine Toothed Comb " and
it goes without saying that if the person " Dealer or Private " who is selling it objects to this then Walk Away.

1.  If it needs a repair then only a " Authorised Repair Centre " who will then issue the correct paperwork must be used otherwise you can
 " Kiss Goodbye " to any warranty that there is on the vehicle. If it is genuine cracking then it should be repaired " Free of Charge " under
warranty.

2. The vehicle is only 9 months old so it will not have had any Service History of any description.

3.  What has the vehicle been " Actually " used for to clock up such a high mileage ?

4.   15,000 miles in 9 months ! That`s over 1,600 miles a month ! That over 400 miles a week ! and that`s without taking into account being
pitched on any sites and there will have been days were it wasn`t actually Rented Out so the figures will increase. You only have to look in
the classified and you`ll see numerous Motorhomes for sale that are " 3 , 4 , or even 5 years old " that haven`t done that kind of mileage.

I am saying all this because these  Toys  are damned expensive Toys for what they are and even more expensive when things go wrong.

I wish you All The Best in your search for your Motorhome and if you have any questions do not hesitate to ask on here and i`m sure 
members will be more than willing to help if they can.


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## Jez (Jan 13, 2013)

Wooie1958 said:


> Hi Jez,
> 
> One of the main reason why " Hire Companies " sell of their Motorhomes before they are 12 months old is that they then do not have to get
> involved with any " Servicing " or " Habitation Checks " etc.etc.
> ...




Loud and clear! Lots of very good points. Big thank-you. Pint comin' atcha if we ever meet up  I'm off to cogitate(!) now. So pleased I joined this forum!


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## Jez (Jan 16, 2013)

Thanks everyone. We've blown this one out. Talk about going from one extreme to the other, we are now looking at second hand A class again. Many thanks for the advice and guidance.


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## Viktor (Jan 16, 2013)

_Interesting thread.

_Welcome to the forum.  That high a milage is interesting in that my Campervan is my only vehicle and with several holidays last year I covered 20,000 miles including daily use.  Sounds like it may have been travelling up and down the motorways for quite a distance.

Good decision I think in passing on it.


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## Jez (Apr 30, 2013)

*So we got one*

It's an old thread I know, but we finally got one. A Nieschmann and Bischoff Arto 64e 2006 and we're very pleased with it. I keep gazing longingly out at it on on the drive. Been away about four times now including one to France which was great. Different world over there for motorhomes! Little triangular thingys to fill up water and empty loo. Parking. Loved it!

So now I've turned into a lurker on this forum. Help out with the odd question etc. I'm a happy man! 

Thanks once again to all who contributed to help with our decision. Good to be part of such a nice bunch of people.


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## Covey (Apr 30, 2013)

As a newbie who has just bought my first MH I will toss in my thoughts for what they are worth.

I wanted a MH that I could use year round so having read comments about what makes are really winterised, and what makes just look good I decided to buy a Hymer.

Now "nearly new" Hymers are really for those who win the lottery, and I set a budget of what I could afford to pay cash for, without having to think of having to borrow.

So, I was looking for a Hymer and I had £25k in the bank to use as a purchase budget.  Then I set about looking at what models Hymer made/had made, and the various layouts.  Again reading advice on many Forums I decided that I wanted a fixed bed at the rear, as much space as my money could buy, AND I had a preference for a Hymer on a Merc Sprinter chassis.

At this point I had not visited any dealers or even looked inside a modern MH, let alone slept in one!! As I write, I have not set foot inside any dealership!!!

I started with Autotrader cos that is a quick way of learning what is out there and you can filter the results and avoid looking at ads for stuff you are not interested in.

I knew that my Hymer was going to be a "mature lady" but that can bring a lot of benefits if it has been loved and cared for.

My search for a "big Hymer with a rear bed and lots of space" led me to an advert in Preloved for a 1997 Hymer S700 for sale and at the limit of my budget. It was being sold by a very nice guy called Pat who had owned N7HYM for three years, but who for family reasons was having to curtail his MH life and was reluctantly selling the second love of his life.

He told me that two people wanted to buy it but had other vans to dispose of first and on a cold rainy day he took me to see N7HYM in the farmers field that passed for secure storage. After an hour looking around the MH I went home and sent him an email with an offer which I felt was fair, but lower than he was asking.  The deal was done in 7 days and on last Friday I turned up at Pats home to take delivery of N7HYM.

Why did I buy it? Firstly it was the layout I wanted. Secondly, it was obvious to an idiot newbie like me that Pat and the previous owners had lavished a lot of care and love on the van.  Pat gave me TWO large bags containing all the receipts for the work done over the past 16 years.  All the original Hymer/Merc documentation AND the English translations.  All the previous MOT's and advisories, and all the service sheets from the Merc Main Dealers who had maintained the vehicle for the past 16 years.

Oh, and you could have eaten your lunch on the engine it was so well looked after. Merc Diesel, Automatic, cab aircon, living area aircon, Sat TV, Full LPG gas installation with dual large tanks and central filling, 2 x 110 leisure batteries and two solar panels on the roof to keep them charged, fitted motorcycle rack and the list goes on.

Because I live in London inside the Low Emission Zone and N7HYM is not compliant, I checked in to a CC site near London and so far she is everything I could have wished for.  Everything works properly (especially when I have remembered where the leavers and switches are!!!) and I am as snug as a bug in my new MH.

A "mature lady" she may be, but then I am a mature fellow and I look forward to 6th August when "she" and I are off to Spain and Portugal for 6 months.

Oh, did I tell you that such was the trust I felt in Pat that the first time I drove N7HYM was AFTER I had signed and paid and got in to drive her away.  I am sure I broke every rule in the book about buying a MH, but I am very happy, so there!:have fun:


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## jimbohorlicks (Apr 30, 2013)

Hi Covey
it sounds like your in love with your van and you have found your ideal m/home 
best of luck and enjoy your travels in her.
:heart:


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## Smaug (May 1, 2013)

Lovely to hear a couple of success stories when many only go public with moans! 

FWIW, when buying any large ticket item I try to assess the seller first & then the boat/ vehicle/ house or whatever. But conmen are very believable so it ain't that easy!


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## Covey (May 1, 2013)

When I was looking at the bills, I was looking for items which did not really need doing, but which were changed "just in case".  The vendor was ex RAF aircrew and they understand about preventative maintenance, and there had been a lot of that.  All the kit that had been bought was the best there was, not the cheapest.

The brakes had been done inc changing the discs by the Merc Main dealer in Aylesbury.  If they had been done by the owner or a fellow around the corner they might have been all right, but better to see the Merc Main dealer stamp and a very large credit card payment!!!

The clincher for me was when I asked the vendor what he would do by way of improvements/changes if he had £3k to spend tomorrow.  The answer was "Nothing" and so far that was as true an answer as anybody has the right to expect.  Everything works, there are no issues and the only change I can come up with is to change the Alpine audio unit for another Alpine unit with a built in Parrot Hands Free phone system.  As I am a "solo" owner (for the moment with a lot of luck!!!!!) a proper hands free system is a good idea for me.  I have one in my car and it keeps me 100% legal.

I am sure I broke every rule in the MH Buying book and having read of problems others have had on this Forum, I am luckier than I have a right to expect.

Now, about the Lottery this weekend!!

Covey:cheers:


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## Covey (Jun 15, 2013)

*Two Months Later!!*

I have owned N7HYM for 8 weeks now and have had plenty of time to delve deep into the Hymer and see the things I missed when I bought her.

I am still as pleased as punch despite buying a mattress 10cms too short!!  I changed the Alpine stereo system for another Alpine which incorporates a Parrot hands free system for my mobile phone.  I have also bought a new satnav.  I bought a Navman 695 which does exactly what it says on the tin and the Navman Truck option seems good and I have 90 days to decide if I want to pay £70 for the option.

I have an issue with my gas system which is in the process of being changed.  The MH had a Gaslow central refill LPG system with 2 x 11kg cylinders.  However, when the Gaslow was installed, they kept the existing Truma regulators.  The  2 Truma regulators were the originals, but as they were 16 years old, I decided to replace them with a new Truma crash resistant regulator and automatic changeover unit. There was nothing wrong with the regulators as fitted, but Truma does not sell replacements for the old regulators and I did not want to get caught on the continent with a failed regulator.

Deciding what to have done about the gas regulators is easy, but getting anyone to do the work ain't easy.  I sent an email to 6 Truma dealers asking for a quote and got a reply for one of them telling me they don't do motorhomes.  the rest did not even reply!  I rang three other firms and they were all quoting 6 to 10 weeks lead time.

My replacement Truma kit is coming from Germany.  I would have bought it in the UK except that nobody wanted to supply 50mBar kit and Truma will not supply an end user.  I am sure if I wandered in to a dealer with £100k in my hand they might speak to me, but  if you want anything out of the ordinary, you might have a problem.


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## Smaug (Jun 15, 2013)

Covey said:


> (snip)
> I have an issue with my gas system which is in the process of being changed.  The MH had a Gaslow central refill LPG system with 2 x 11kg cylinders.  However, when the Gaslow was installed, they kept the existing Truma regulators.  The  2 Truma regulators were the originals, but as they were 16 years old, I decided to replace them with a new Truma crash resistant regulator and automatic changeover unit. There was nothing wrong with the regulators as fitted, but Truma does not sell replacements for the old regulators and I did not want to get caught on the continent with a failed regulator.
> 
> Deciding what to have done about the gas regulators is easy, but getting anyone to do the work ain't easy.  I sent an email to 6 Truma dealers asking for a quote and got a reply for one of them telling me they don't do motorhomes.  the rest did not even reply!  I rang three other firms and they were all quoting 6 to 10 weeks lead time.
> ...



Why not do it yourself? It really is VERY simple. Just undo the "pigtails" (left-hand thread, remember) - they are designed for easy connection/reconnection by the general public & they use a simple brass cone to ensure they are gas tight. Then remove the regulators - probably only held on with a couple of screws & replace with the new ones. Finally reconnect the pigtails & test. It may be worth replacing the pigtails as they have a limited life (is it 5 years or ten? I can't remember, but Google will find it for you)

The test is the only important bit, you can use soapy water & a soft brush or spray container to look for bubbles with the bottles ON & the feed to the van OFF. You can buy spray cans of gas test bubble solution or even pay a specialist Motorhome or LPG engineer to do the test for you. It should only take an afternoon or so. I fitted an auto changeover valve on mine in an easy afternoon's pottering.


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## Covey (Jun 16, 2013)

I had thought of doing it myself, but although I am pretty good at fixing large complicated IT systems, my gas skills are very basic! (well, non existent really) so I would prefer to get a gas qualified person to do it.

One of my concerns was that Truma recommended that regulators were changed after 10 years and that the rubber gas pigtails were changed after 5 years.  My regulators were 16 years old and I think the pigtails were as well, so erring on the side of caution, I thought getting new would be the smart move.

In the Truma installation guide for the regulator/changeover unit it states that the regulator should be installed at a higher level than the gas bottle outlet tap, presumably to allow liquid to drain back into the tank if necessary.

Gaslow however, state that their changeover should be above the tap level, BUT if that is not possible, then the pigtail should loop lower and then up to the changeover unit so as to create a trap for LPG liquid.

I am having the braided stainless steel crash proof pigtails fitted as Truma say they have a 20 year life.

If anyone reading this is a gas expert, will the Truma work below the tank outlet level if there is bottom loop as required by Gaslow.

There is not much spare headroom in the gas compartment of my S700!!


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## runnach (Jun 16, 2013)

Hi Covey, a couple of things.

Firstly the regulator should be higher than the gas tap due to the reasons you state, and the Gaslow "cure" with the Truma unit should work, however not ideal.

50 mbar regulators were a German standard, In the UK butane has run at 28 mbar Propane at 37 mbar, That said for Motorhomes and caravans from 2002 the EN standard states 30 mbar. However static vans still work on the old system.

If you intend camping all year round then propane is the better gas, Butane in cold weather has difficulty "gassing" at around a temperature of 4 -5 degrees, where as propane will gas right down to approx -47 degrees.

The regulator on your van is due a change and pigtails too, I think as Smaug suggested 10 year and 5 year "working life" is the suggested replacement age, we certainly adopted that policy when gas checking/issuing landlords certificates on our mobiles at the beginning of the season,

I hope this helps 

Channa


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## Covey (Jun 16, 2013)

Us "continental" types are stuck with the 50mBar where fitted otherwise you have a totally uneconomic upgrade to do.  My boiler, oven, fridge, hob, Cadac Safari Chef BBQ and wok ring are all 50mBar.

It is just possible that you can get 30/37mBar jets for the boiler fridge etc, but it is a major exercise in logistics of finding all the jets and fitting them even if you can find them.  If you cannot find the lower pressure jets, then you have to replace the entire unit which will not be cheap.

Truma say they do not have any of the old style bottle regulators in stock and stopped making them a long time ago.  If I had a regulator failure whilst away, I would be faced with a complete change as per now, and in a foreign country.

Mind you, I might find it easier to get the work done in Portugal than the UK.  Everyone here seems to be doing habitation checks. Am I wrong in thinking that habitation checks for a 10+ year old MH is a waste of time?

For those who use 50mBar kit, Cadac will supply you with a free 50mBar jet to replace the existing 30mBar one in UK supplied Cadac BBQ's.  Nice to see such good customer service!!!

My wok ring from Amazon already had a 50mBar jet fitted.


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## runnach (Jun 16, 2013)

My advice was on the fact your base is shown as London therefore a natural assumption you are based here.

An easy option to acquire a 50 mbar regulator is look in Italy, there a lot of the regulators you can adjust the pressure, maybe worth considering if you want to carry a spare.

Channa


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## vwalan (Jun 16, 2013)

adjustable regs can be bought world wide . i have some here bought in spain ,morocco . you name it they all sell them .


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