# Plan to ban coastal camping in Lincolnshire



## scampa (Apr 13, 2013)

Driving along the Lincolnshire Coast yesterday, I bought a local paper (East Lindsey Target) which had the front page headline "Plan To Ban The Car Park Campers". I know that many members like to use some of these spots, so I've found a link to the article online:

Plan to ban coastal car park camping in Lincolnshire | This is Lincolnshire

When I last visited these places, last year, I found that some of them looked like unofficial campsites, with numerous campervans that seemed to be settled in for a long term stay. There was plenty of outdoor furniture and "toys" around the vans, and the noise from several generators running during the day.  A lot of these spots had public toilets nearby, but at least half of them were overflowing, probably blocked with too much campervan waste, and the floors were flooded. I heard several day-trippers complaining about them in the short time that I was there.

I couldn't help thinking that it would only be a matter of time before something had to give, and I've seen a few comments on here about height barriers appearing at some of these places in the past few months.

I was only passing through the area yesterday, so out of the six places mentioned in the article, the only one I called at on this trip was Huttoft car terrace. This place still seems to be tidy and unspoiled at present, with no barriers, although it does have the prominent old "No caravans or overnight camping" sign (or something like that) at the entrance.

The online article does allow comments, but maybe the evidence that I saw last year has played right into the hands of the local council, residents and campsites?


----------



## bru (Apr 13, 2013)

got a m8 who lives near there and he says at least 1 of the vans has been at huttoft since last summer ,which dont help


----------



## DTDog (Apr 13, 2013)

An interesting quote from the article is "LCC says they won't be putting any further height restriction barriers in place and are not trying to discourage day trippers from using the sites".

I have heard of plans to put height barriers up st Huttoft. I wonder if LCC will or will not put the barriers up.

I personally get very annoyed with the putting up of height barriers. Luckily, i am in a position to have a choice of vehicle when going out for the day, but I tend to use the motorhome if we decide to go out as a family. I know some members who only have the one vehicle which they use as their main form of transport as well as their leisure vehicle. How do they go on if wanting to go to the Lincolnshire coast for the day. The article even mentions someone in a Landrover Discover having problems (please do not go in to the 4x4 debate).
I would even argue that this is discrimination?

Having said all this, I fully agree with the first poster in the that we as 'wildcampers' aren't helping matters when spending several nights in one spot, with chairs out and gennys running.

I'm sure none of our members do this, but we have all seen it being done by other motorhomes.

Do we approach these vans and pass comment?

Im not sure what can be done, but I do feel something has to be done before a blanket 'No Overnight Camping' comes in to force!


----------



## Smaug (Apr 13, 2013)

I made a similar point on another thread & was accused of "using commonsense" as apparently that does not exist in a council environment, and having worked in such an environment for a few years, I would be inclined to agree. 

My view is that a charge of a fiver a night plus sensible waste collection facilities would help police the area in a manner that would encourage visiors & discourage abuse. Sadly, I doubt that the policing would be cost effective, but it could be "blitzed" for a season & then return to a more realistic level once the message is out.


----------



## Robmac (Apr 13, 2013)

I agree, I think that all councils should order hundreds of picnic tables.............. Preferably from me!


----------



## maingate (Apr 13, 2013)

There are 2 sides to this.

Yes, there are vans which stay long term at Huttoft, Moggs Eye etc. The couple of times I used it (couple of nights at a time) I found these owners to be decent enough and acting responsibility. Obviously there will be a few of the obnoxious type that can spoil it for everybody.

The state of the toilets cannot be put down to motorhomers. When I was there, the Moggs Eye toilets had been badly vandalised. The presence of motorhomes may even have prevented the idiots from doing this in the first place.

The second side to this is that it could be altered for use by motorhomes. The basics are already there (water and toilets). For a reasonable charge, the Council could have a nice little earner. As was said, charge for the service and police it heavily until it settles down into a useful facility which is respected.


----------



## sasquatch (Apr 13, 2013)

In the words of Lloyd Grosman,'lets consider the evidence' toys lying around and generators is more a trademark of new age/Irish travelers.


----------



## ivecotrucker (Apr 13, 2013)

Unfortunately we have no easy way of distinguishing ourselves from other types of "traveller" in Joe Public's eye so we all get tarred with the same brush.


----------



## Wooie1958 (Apr 13, 2013)

This is all down to the Selfish Herberts that set up camp for days on end and even a couple of weeks at a time in some cases.

All for the sake of saving a few quid because the tight bar stewards won`t pay for a site.

The genuine ones that just want an odd night somewhere like that will then suffer as well.


----------



## Aspire255 (Apr 13, 2013)

I’ll stick my two pence in also if I may..

I wouldn’t say I’m a regular but I have over the last several years spent several enjoyable nights at Huttoft and spoke to several that are regulars there.
What I mean when I say regulars is those that seem to be permanently dug in.
I think there are three regulars, the ones I have spoken to have property close by and rent it out during and out of holiday season hence there continued presence at Huttoft..
Never found the toilets dirty but it would be nice if a water tap was fitted somewhere so we could top up our fresh water tanks also if the bins could be emptied more regular.
I would gladly pay to stay no problem at all if all above was sorted..

Aspire255


----------



## witzend (Apr 13, 2013)

Maximum stay of 24 hrs with no return in 48 hrs  nothing outside the van surely this would be the answer


----------



## jennyp19 (Apr 13, 2013)

Just spent a night at Huttoft - first time visit - great place to stop.  It would be a shame if they put height barriers up.   I noticed that one van must be a permanent one, as there was no road tax on it!!  I can't remember if this was the one that had 2 very large gas bottles outside.  
There was no litter about & looked like the bins hadn't been long emptied.
When we came away I noticed that one of the "residents" had put a load of rubbish in one of the bins (of which there are many), & was busy emptying bottles of (? no idea what could have been waste water) just on the sand next to the bin - at least is wasn't while there were any day visitors.


----------



## sean rua (Apr 13, 2013)

Hello *Jenny*,

                You were recently at this place and seem to have a very good idea of what's going down. I was wondering whether you were able to ascertain that the "residents" mentioned were , in fact, Irish?

The assumption seems to have been made. Can you confirm?

Btw, about the chairs and toys - 
do you know what gorgers or buffers sit on when they're out?

Our lot usually get sneered at for sitting on the grass. 


sean rua.


----------



## Randonneur (Apr 13, 2013)

The problem with Huttoft is the height barrier at Moggs Eye. Now that's in place it's pushed all the motorhomers and campervanners over to Huttoft, which in turn means that more of the parking area is taken up leaving less room for the day trippers and dog walkers.

This in turn, will get the car drivers moaning to the council about "bloody gyppos" taking all the parking, and probably raping their daughters, eating their dogs and stripping their cars for parts etc while they're on the beach!!!

This moaning and local residents opposition, will mean the council will have to do something. Oh yes, a height barrier!!! Now we can have the car drivers but not the nasty unwashed traveller type motorhomers, ugh!!

It's all irrelevant anyway, it won't be long before they build a nice new bird observatory on two thirds of the Huttoft parking area so "birders" can look at what's flying around their nice new SSSI coastal country park which used to be Moggs Eye, wolla Bank, Chapel six Marshes and everything going back to nearly skegness!!!

And yes, I have stopped over at Moggs Eye and Huttoft, at least twice a year depending on work committments. It is, or used to be, a nice area to chill out for a night or two. I agree it gets busy in the holiday season and there are regulars there who have stayed for a long time. but it seems the council would rather have their day trippers and night time boy racers and druggies in these parking areas than motorhomers who just want to enjoy the views and cause no damage.


----------



## maingate (Apr 13, 2013)

This SSSI lark is just a scam. It has been used extensively on the Northumberland coast as well.

It is much cheaper than drawing up new byelaws.

In fact in Northumberland they would like to stop overnight angling. That would certainly cause an outcry from all over the UK.


----------



## Randonneur (Apr 13, 2013)

Google Huttoft bird observatory, there are pictures of what the proposed observatory is going to look like.

I always thought they could'nt put a height bar at Huttoft as they need access for boat launching?

It would be a shame to lose it, but as has been said before, sometimes we are our own worst enemies!


----------



## abforfun (Apr 13, 2013)

*Huttoft/Moggs eye*

Hi instead of moaning on here lets all email the council's giving our veiws i.e  Max 48hrs  no awnings ect it's ok in europe why not here.
Let Lincolnshire County Council be the first to lead the way in having aires in this country [ am i dreaming ]
If they hav to police the no camping whats the difference in policing an aire

          abforfun:help:

  Mail the council


----------



## Randonneur (Apr 13, 2013)

If you check out the link in the OP, read the article then read the comments. There are a couple of comments suggesting just that, an aire type place along the lines of the european system.

I think it is probably likely to fall on deaf ears as there's too much vested interest in camping and caravan sites in the area. Some of which are probably owned or operated  by members of the council.

Why would they vote for an aire when they have a perfectly good campsite you could stay on, for a price of course.

No harm in trying though!

Anybody know who the honourable members are??


----------



## abforfun (Apr 13, 2013)

mail the council with your throughts then


----------



## Wooie1958 (Apr 14, 2013)

abforfun said:


> Hi instead of moaning on here lets all email the council's giving our veiws i.e  Max 48hrs  no awnings ect it's ok in europe why not here.
> Let Lincolnshire County Council be the first to lead the way in having aires in this country [ am i dreaming ]
> If they hav to police the no camping whats the difference in policing an aire
> 
> ...






That`s a very good idea.........however........i see a problem.

What do we do about the *Rules Are Meant To Be Broken Brigade*

It`s the likes of them that spoil it for everyone else.


----------



## jennyp19 (Apr 14, 2013)

sean rua said:


> Hello *Jenny*,
> 
> You were recently at this place and seem to have a very good idea of what's going down*. I was wondering whether you were able to ascertain that the "residents" mentioned were , in fact, Irish?
> 
> ...


Not really* - just an observation of stopping the one night - we probably have same impression as a day visitor.   Don't think they are "travellers" just set to stay for a long while.  There is one large truck "supporting wild life" selling tea & coffee - donations being made for wild life. 
4 vans parked close together.  I didn't take too much notice apart from what I said previously.


----------



## Smaug (Apr 14, 2013)

jennyp19 said:


> Not really* - just an observation of stopping the one night - we probably have same impression as a day visitor.   Don't think they are "travellers" just set to stay for a long while.  There is one large truck "supporting wild life" selling tea & coffee - donations being made for wild life.
> 4 vans parked close together.  I didn't take too much notice apart from what I said previously.



So it is fundamentalist "Conservationistas" that are destroying the environment???? 

No people allowed, just me & my beloved wild animals.


----------



## Randonneur (Apr 14, 2013)

Does anyone know if the disabled lad who lives in the estate car is still up there?????


----------



## DTDog (Apr 14, 2013)

Randonneur said:


> Does anyone know if the disabled lad who lives in the estate car is still up there?????



He was there a few weeks ago. 

Now, that is a sad case.


----------



## Randonneur (Apr 14, 2013)

Yes, I heard something of his circumstances the last time I was up there. 

Shame really, but he seems to manage ok.


----------



## trevskoda (Apr 14, 2013)

*gipos*



sasquatch said:


> In the words of Lloyd Grosman,'lets consider the evidence' toys lying around and generators is more a trademark of new age/Irish travelers.


better not open my mouth on mainland or i would be for the rope,( good ulster man)


----------



## sean rua (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks, jenny and others, for the replies.

It seems to me that whoever is there they are unlikely to be Irish travellers.

Btw, what was the answer about where folk sit when they're out?
 I see plenty of fishers using chairs and shelters, but I've never been to the place mentioned, so all I know about there is what I read on here.

sean rua.


----------



## kimbowbill (Apr 15, 2013)

The 4 vans parked together could have been, myself, lotty, Dt dog and Kelly john, only one  is a descendant of gypsies, we had chairs out but on the beach, we also did a litter pick, early morning and the evening, you will find that its the day trippers leave all the mess, MH's get the label of litter louts.


----------



## Randonneur (Apr 15, 2013)

You should see Huttoft beach the morning after a busy summer's day, the amount of disposable barbecues just left on the sand is unbelievable! All left by car drivers who can't be a**ed to wait till they've cooled down then take them to the bins before they go back to their static caravans or home!!!!


----------



## landyrubbertramp (Apr 15, 2013)

as i have said before thease probs will get worse and the prob is how democracy works in the uk instaed of a local mayor making brave decsions for the long term we have local cllrs looking at short term things, most ppl only seak to their council or cllrs when they have a prob and as a result the cllrs will fight for that person even if its just a minority view becasue hte cllr knows other people in his or her area arnt procative enough to give the majoity view, so we end up with decsions being made by a small minority of ppl because the majoirtyppl arnt botherned enough. other cuntier wil fight a die for a vote most ppl would sell thier vote for a pound if they could, i fear this problem will get worse not better, its sad but i have kinda given up on this country and spend more and more time abroad.


----------



## scampa (Apr 15, 2013)

My OP wasn't meant to sound so judgemental, so please don't shoot the messenger.  

Last week was the first time that I'd been in that area for quite a while, and that newspaper headline jumped out at me when I called in one of the shops. (I even spent 50p of my own money to buy a paper that I'd never heard of before, just to keep my fellow wildcampers informed!). 

Until then, I hadn't heard of any problems or disputes in that area, other than the small amount that I'd read on a few threads on here. Do we have any members who live around there who could give us more history or updates on the situation with the council?

The article does seem to be typically skewed against the campervans, as if the day-trippers and tourists don't cause any problems, but we do need to keep in mind the sort of things that the anti-wilding brigade are looking for, and try not to give them too much ammunition to use against us!

Maingate, I may have assumed wrongly about the cause of the blocked toilets as I didn't inspect them, but unfortunately the day-trippers may have assumed wrongly too, and passed on their opinions to others. The conspiracy theorist in me now wonders if they may have been vandalised by locals in order to make life harder for the campers and discourage them from staying there?

Sean, I didn't get any impression of any travellers being there, Irish, New Age or whatever, just your average wildcamper and/or "free-camper". As for what folk sit on, I can't speak for everyone, but I tend to sit on my van step, or maybe a folding chair, or sometimes even on the sand or grass!

Kimbo, I don't think it was you that I saw in that area, or I definitely would've come across to say hello, and get the autographs of such a distinguished bunch!

The idea of the council ignoring a few wildcampers, or even providing basic facilities in return for a small fee sounds good, but might not please the local campsite owners or residents who are usually behind these complaints. As I've said, other, more local people may know a lot more than me about any problems or history of conflicts with the council and campsites in that area.


----------



## Rockerboots (Apr 15, 2013)

I heard today on local radio that Great Yarmouth  which is my main local seaside resort has reported a drop of 60% in business earnings so far this year.  With easter just past the drop in earnings have been blamed on two things which where the weather, and apparently 200,000 more people traveling abroad. Surely the drop in takeings would be ringing alarm bells to all councils especially in tourist areas and should be trying to think up new ways to bring custom to their towns and not be looking at ways to stop people comming.
  One lady came on to complain about the cost of a chalet on a holiday park for a week, that`s how a lot of us might feel about paying over the odds for a patch of grass  on a designated area.
 The councils of this country spend too much time listening to the wingers and whiners & don`t don`t seem to try a compromise that would work for all of us & maybe they could make a few quid along the way.

Sod the uk let`s all join the other 200,000. :lol-053:


----------



## bru (Apr 23, 2013)

had a ride up lincs coast at weekend , nipped in all the beach parks ,all the barriers are up except huttoft , drove along the terrace but did not stop as there was already 23 motorhomes there ,
the disabled chap was there that lives in his car ,
 there were vans with gas bottles outside  and quite a few were parked with front wheels on the curb that devides the carpark from the footpath so the front ends were stuck over the footpath 

part of the terrace was fenced off and workmen were there doing pipe work and are working there way along the beach 

sorry no piccys as didn't have camera but will try to get up there again soon


----------



## Beemer (Apr 23, 2013)

bru said:


> had a ride up lincs coast at weekend , nipped in all the beach parks ,all the barriers are up except huttoft , drove along the terrace but did not stop as there was already 23 motorhomes there ,
> the disabled chap was there that lives in his car ,
> there were vans with gas bottles outside  and quite a few were parked with front wheels on the curb that devides the carpark from the footpath so the front ends were stuck over the footpath
> 
> ...




Perhaps photos need to be taken of those vehicles making a mess, and posted on this site, and then when enough pictures are gathered, they could be sent to the relevant council authority.
Usually there is a good view of such 'crimes' as placing rubbish under the car from motorhome windows, where a good photo can be taken, without the photograper being seen.
This of course would also apply to 'overnighters' with huge gas bottles outside their vehicles!!!!

I have stayed there a couple of times over night in my last 'van, and had to park with the 2m overhang facing the sea, (is that over the footpath?) otherwise no vehicles would have been able to get past.


----------



## landyrubbertramp (Apr 23, 2013)

Beemer said:


> Perhaps photos need to be taken of those vehicles making a mess, and posted on this site, and then when enough pictures are gathered, they could be sent to the relevant council authority.
> Usually there is a good view of such 'crimes' as placing rubbish under the car from motorhome windows, where a good photo can be taken, without the photograper being seen.
> This of course would also apply to 'overnighters' with huge gas bottles outside their vehicles!!!!
> 
> I have stayed there a couple of times over night in my last 'van, and had to park with the 2m overhang facing the sea, (is that over the footpath?) otherwise no vehicles would have been able to get past.



i can see where your coming from re the pics but i can assure you the council will accept the pics as they have to but they will not use them as eveidance if the person or vehicle has alread left this is due to enforcemnt and evidance, while taking a pic seem the best eveidance going at the end of the day it could have been takign while the van stoped for just one in to use the toilet or whatever , it will have a conter effect or it will do is be used the the conil and cclrs that m homes r the problem, the ppl who are not respectful prob would care if it was on this site or not and most are respectful on here anyway so i carnt see it making any diffrence. im sounding negative i know but relastic as i do alot with my local council and the community and see how the council work and think.

to me its about peroanl responsability if you are doing thr right thing thats enough, its beenshown many times the council dont listen to users in many forms, on the posative i think in time this will resolve itself. as been mentioned when theasse resorts realise thta m homes can be a money spinner they will go at it big ie with eu grant and other will watch and if they have even a slight adavtage they will all fall in to line its just a matter of time.


----------



## bru (Apr 23, 2013)

Beemer said:


> Perhaps photos need to be taken of those vehicles making a mess, and posted on this site, and then when enough pictures are gathered, they could be sent to the relevant council authority.
> Usually there is a good view of such 'crimes' as placing rubbish under the car from motorhome windows, where a good photo can be taken, without the photograper being seen.
> This of course would also apply to 'overnighters' with huge gas bottles outside their vehicles!!!!
> 
> I have stayed there a couple of times over night in my last 'van, and had to park with the 2m overhang facing the sea, (is that over the footpath?) otherwise no vehicles would have been able to get past.



yes that's how I take it that the curbs are put there so far back from the beach to keep the traffic back so there is room for ppl to walk in between the cars and the beach , 
didn't notice any rubbish so don't think that was a problem ,


----------



## Randonneur (Apr 23, 2013)

That guy with the horse box cafe type thing always parks with his two front wheels on the kerb stones. I suppose it must level up his living area for him. Don't know what he'll do when the height bar goes up, that'll be his living down the pan as well!!


----------



## Rockerboots (Apr 23, 2013)

Randonneur said:


> That guy with the horse box cafe type thing always parks with his two front wheels on the kerb stones. I suppose it must level up his living area for him. Don't know what he'll do when the height bar goes up, that'll be his living down the pan as well!!




If he`s an authorised trader with a license then he may get a key to the barrier if they put one up.


----------



## Randonneur (Apr 23, 2013)

Rockerboots said:


> If he`s an authorised trader with a license then he may get a key to the barrier if they put one up.




I know he's been there for a long time. Don't know if he's legal or not. I just can't imagine he would have the necessary health and hygiene licenses to be authorised, especially as it's his living accommodation as well.


----------



## Smaug (Apr 23, 2013)

Randonneur said:


> I know he's been there for a long time. Don't know if he's legal or not. I just can't imagine he would have the necessary health and hygiene licenses to be authorised, especially as it's his living accommodation as well.



Wouldn't he need a traders' licence too? I would assume that if he has one, he will have to have them all, but it is perfectly possible that no-one has reported him & he doesn't have any. 

My local Hygene Department would have checked him out if they saw him because they were the only "on the ball" section in the whole council when I worked there for a couple of years. But I fear that most Hygene officers just wouldn't want the hassle & would only respond if they thought they might get into trouble themselves (eg if a punter reported them, they would be obliged to do "something")

BTW, the reason why our Hygene Dept was good? They had a good manager who new the job & his people & thus they all took pride in their work. Don't know why that should be so rare in local govt, but it sure is.


----------



## Deleted member 24143 (Apr 23, 2013)

If anyone is going to complain about this to the council remember it is East Lindsey District Council not Lincolnshire County Council.


----------



## Randonneur (Apr 23, 2013)

Kryten said:


> If anyone is going to complain about this to the council remember it is East Lindsey District Council not Lincolnshire County Council.



Don't see why anybody would want to complain. The guy is providing a useful service to the day trippers and fishermen, the nearest catering and cafes are either Sandilands or Anderby Creek so he's not treading on anyone's toes so to speak.

Anyway he's been there that long he's part of the furniture!


----------



## tanera (Apr 23, 2013)

The negative feelings against motorhomers has been around for years. I too was one of the protesters until joining the ranks last year.
Here in West Scotland the main complaint is "What do they give to the local economy"
"They fill up the provisions in Sainsburys, wear out our roads, dump their waste and toilets in ditches and spend bugger all locally" is a typical refrain. Indeed contributors to this forum add fuel to these complaints- boasting as we do how little we spend. In 2011 a motorhomer was overheard on the car ferry Hebrides- Tarbert Harris to Uig Skye boasting that in two weeks he had only spent £17 in the Western Isles. 

In my home village- Dunvegan are excellent shops- a Greengrocer who's stock level would shame many a supermarket, a "mini market" open long hours selling produce at a reasonable price (to me), a baker, filling station and cafe all providing local employment. Profits stay in this community- unlike Sainsburys, Tescos etc. but still we hear complaints from tourists about high prices charged by these shops. Welcome to my world- it's an expensive place to live.  To continue in business these local businesses need tourist support. In Skye, In Western Isles, in Lincolnshire, in Cornwall, wherever- tourism is important.

Residents of these rural areas will bend the ears of their councillors, so will businesses, camp site owners in particular. If the residents do not feel they are getting value for money in the spending habits of a sector of the tourist industry then they will complain and contributors to this forum are our own worst enemy. 

We need to rethink our profile.

Encourage councils to provide Aires, 3m wide bays to cram us together, EHU with expensive £1 pay meters, waste disposal and a fee of £5-£8 per night. This to make the campsites look economically attractive (yes I know the forum is called wild camping). The campsites pay a part in the economy too- Nice showers, washing facilities room to swing cats inside awnings etc.

Above all stop boasting about free loading, you like the wild places- support their local economies, If no one lived here would you get diesel? health cover? fresh veg? Pubs? ferries. Spend money- buy a coffee, pint, unheard of local paper, fresh bread. If we do this we can raise our popularity profile and may find less height restrictions or boulders across laybys and maybe- just maybe the councillors may welcome us and start to provide Aires.


----------



## maingate (Apr 23, 2013)

tanera said:


> The negative feelings against motorhomers has been around for years. I too was one of the protesters until joining the ranks last year.
> Here in West Scotland the main complaint is "What do they give to the local economy"
> "They fill up the provisions in Sainsburys, wear out our roads, dump their waste and toilets in ditches and spend bugger all locally" is a typical refrain. Indeed contributors to this forum add fuel to these complaints- boasting as we do how little we spend. In 2011 a motorhomer was overheard on the car ferry Hebrides- Tarbert Harris to Uig Skye boasting that in two weeks he had only spent £17 in the Western Isles.
> 
> ...



That is good advice you have given but have you done anything yourself in that direction?

Some of us have and I would be pleased if you can keep us up to date with your progress.


----------



## scampa (Apr 24, 2013)

tanera said:


> The negative feelings against motorhomers has been around for years. I too was one of the protesters until joining the ranks last year.
> Here in West Scotland the main complaint is "What do they give to the local economy"
> "They fill up the provisions in Sainsburys, wear out our roads, dump their waste and toilets in ditches and spend bugger all locally" is a typical refrain. Indeed contributors to this forum add fuel to these complaints- boasting as we do how little we spend. In 2011 a motorhomer was overheard on the car ferry Hebrides- Tarbert Harris to Uig Skye boasting that in two weeks he had only spent £17 in the Western Isles.
> 
> ...



Good post Tanera, worthy of a thread of it's own, though I think a lot of the points have been mentioned at times in the past.

I try to be conscious of the locals when I park up anywhere, and I find that using the smaller shops and local services actually adds to the interest for me. I have many happy memories of the characters I've met and some of the info I've learned in village shops in various places, including the store in Dunvegan last year!

Incidentally, I remember driving around some remote settlements on Scotlands' north and north-west coasts last Autumn, where I kept crossing paths with a Tesco Home-Delivery van (from the Thurso store, I presumed). I remember thinking how convenient that must be for the locals, and probably cheaper than using the friendly local shops at Tongue or Durness where I had called. With all due respect, those same locals might well protest about any passing tourists not using their village shops or facilities as they pass by?

I will admit that I'm not a great customer for campsites though.  My style of wilding is to park up somewhere by myself last thing at night, then move on first thing in the morning. It would be a waste of time and money for me to use campsites, as well as very inconvenient, but I'm sure they get custom from other people with caravans, families, or with different needs to my own. 

I don't "boast" about not using campsites, but as I've said, for me personally they are neither necessary nor convenient.  

I can understand why you might have been one of the protesters until you became a wildcamper yourself, but has it made you feel awkward now with your neighbours, or do you find that you have new insights that you can share with them?


----------



## sean rua (Apr 24, 2013)

A very good post from Tanera, imo! 

I think you have highlighted the crux of the matter.
In my opinion, it is a Catch22 situation: the beloved and long- sought- after Aires that everybody talks about  - good as they may be - would, if ever installed,
just ruin and destroy the plus points of the very places folk want to use for wildcamping!

Self-defeating, really, like so many of the tinkerings in life. We may mean well, but the net result is poor. and often, the "medicine" is more harmful than the illness.

In the travelling world, we've seen this with the sites "they" give us: with the good old halting places barred up or destroyed, the official ghettos, "they "are forced to grudgingly provide, are little better than army camps or prisons. We get forced to live in grids behind fences, which doesn't really suit.

This is what generally happens when red-tape and bureaucracy step in. They may mean well, but the results leave a lot to be desired.
Imo, you will lose more than you gain - even if your wishes are granted by the councils. These losses included the intangibles and "feel-good factors" that can never be written on some cash balance sheet.

Anyway, good luck with all your wild-camping, and, perhaps I shall be proven wrong in time. I hope so, but I don't think so, sadly.

sean rua.


----------



## cathobo (Apr 28, 2013)

*Wild Camping at Huttoft, Moggs Eye etc.*

As a frequent wild camper at Huttoft and Moggs eye near Skegness I am appalled by the situation that has arose regarding height barriers and abuse hurled at motor caravaners by local people from the surrounding district. Let us first consider this 2 height barriers had been erected at Moggs Eye both had to be dismantled, last was dismantled because heavy machinery could not access the beach for sea defense work. How can emergency vehicles access the beach if barrier are erected, if death occurs as a result could Lincolnshire County Council be sued for manslaughter?
In 1953 a storm tide killed more than 300 people hence the beaches are replenished with sand at a cost of £72 million pounds over ten years paid for by the Environment Agency subsidized by the Government. As tax payers I think motor caravaners  should not be restricted from beaches that are paid for by Government. 
Ref. Skegness Standard date 13/04/2013 article by M Gabbitas "funding will run out by 2015" so it will be more difficult to fund dredging beach replenishment if any visitor is rejected.
In March 2013 there were no fewer than 45 cars dug out of deep sand drifts including 4 persons in a small car found on Huttoft car terrace stuck in sand between 1am and 9am.
If motor caravaners had not been there an emergency could have developed, note a strong easterly off shore wind was blowing with a tide height 7.1m. So we are going to have height barriers to reduce rubbish caused by wild campers and increase tourism. Consider this: Height restrictions apply so no ice cream vans, no refuse collection trucks, no RAC,AA or Green Flag trucks. There may also be dead seals on the beach, there are no Lifeguards, the coast guard phones have been disconnected. Evidence suggests height barriers are not the solution but it will prove wild campers are not the culprits for any vandalism or litter.
It does not bother me to visit Skegness there are plenty of other places to visit but I feel sorry for people that are on low incomes and wild camp because they cannot afford the extortionate prices charged by campsites. Please note I say extortionate relative to low income.
I could chat on but I would like to hear your views on this matter.


----------



## Aspire255 (Apr 28, 2013)

Wouldn’t the emergency services as well as the council services have a key to unlock the height barriers? As well as the ice cream man, the mushy pea seller and the Black pudding vendor?
Personally the only rubbish I’ve seen and I’m not a regular has been around the rubbish bins when they have been overflowing.
On my very first visit I picked up a piece of carpet that had been used by another M/H for a welcome mat , I used it for the same purpose until I left leaving it for someone else to make use of.
The only mess I might leave behind is the unwanted dog kibbles from out of my dogs bowl, they of course get picked up and eaten by the sea gulls.

Aspire255


----------



## maingate (Apr 28, 2013)

Welcome to the forum cathobo and a very good first post.

Some of what you said has been said before on similar threads but there is some valuable extra info that you have added.

Yes, it is a very frustrating situation but most of us who have used the place will blame its loss on a small local minority and the local Council. I personally will boycott the area and they will never get a penny of my hard earned. The same applies to Whitby and Scarborough.


----------



## Deleted member 13867 (Apr 28, 2013)

What does annoy us about height barriers is not the fact i cannot sneak in and spend the night in an urban car park because i have no desire to overnight in these places (however i do not class Huttoft or similar areas as car parks) it is the fact that towns and areas all over the country are becoming run down, buildings and business's boarded up due to lack of incoming money from tourists and visitors. So we law abiding tax paying motor-home owners who wish to visit a town during the day to park up and do some shopping and have a drink before returning to our spot for the night can't do it because we can't find a blooming car park that we can get into, so we tour slowly around fail to find anywhere to park and then decide the only option is to call into Tesco/Asda stock up and go elsewhere no wonder the shortsighted towns of this country are closing down. Don't these short sighted people (both locals and councils) realise that most motor-home users are responsible older people who will not cause trouble but more likely to prevent trouble by being there as watchfull eyes and ears. However these same people who like to prevent us from parking will welcome with open arms the tour bus carrying pensioners who's only contribution to the local economy is to but a pot of tea with four cups, well we are touring only not on a bus whats the difference? And as for height barriers being locked and 'someone' having a key when the s**t hits the fan and the emergency services need to get through the barriers quick they wont wait for a key if one could ever be found they will get through with a 'universal key' 
I would like to say rant over but its only over for now.
Dave


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Apr 28, 2013)

As I have said many times before we have used all the beaches between skegveges and mablethorpe since the 70's and I honestly believe it's only the advertising they have had on here "and i am guiltier than most" over the past 2/3 yrs that as made them so popular??
   Another scenario though is just on bank lane and jolly common lane are lots of good camp sites now if I stayed on them and payed good money for the privilege I could still not drive on to the beaches in the day this is wrong they should by law be accessible to all between dusk and dawn at least there can be no legal argument against this surely .


----------



## landyrubbertramp (Apr 29, 2013)

re keys to hoght barriers
most cuncils have one type of keys that covers most lockd from hirgy barrier to park gates church yard gates etc and the emergency services like fire have a copy but i have know where amublances services that merge have not been given the right key or have 3 or 4 keys to cover numerous council areas and aot of police cars i have ound do not have them so the larger vehicles like riot vans that are doubled up for ploce cars have had trouble well in my area anyway i now this as i have such a key to do community activities in local parks. 

hope this helps.

re hight barries
i thought the eu had said that they were unlawful as it discrinated road users . as if thier is not tech reason i.e bridge weight plg vehicls have the same rights. unless bi laws superseed i dont know.


----------



## jennyp19 (Apr 29, 2013)

landyrubbertramp said:


> re hight barries
> i thought the eu had said that they were unlawful as it discrinated road users . as if thier is not tech reason i.e bridge weight plg vehicls have the same rights. unless bi laws superseed i dont know.



That's interesting


----------



## scampa (May 9, 2013)

For those of you who are interested, I've found a few follow up letters on the local papers' website since the article in the OP first appeared....


*Height restrictions cutting off a good source of income* 
Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 07:00    
.
RE your front page in the East Lindsey Target, April 10. The reason why you have camper vans parking overnight at Huttoft Car Terrace is economical.

They cannot afford the prices at local camp sites. They do, however, spend money in local shops and garages.

If you ban them you send them away elsewhere.

The article implied that the campers where also responsible for the condition of the local toilets. Why should these people "destroy" the facilities they need the most? These toilets in the car parks are well used and inadequate for the number of visitors using them.

Litter bins overflowing.

Solution – get more litter bins and empty them more often, especially after a bank holiday.

Closing the car parks overnight. What about the number of sea anglers who fish the area overnight. Where are they going to park their cars?

I urge the local council not to repeat the mistake of other councils who ban camper vans, large vans and people carriers from using our local car parks by putting up height barriers. As they found out in North Wales, such actions sent visitors elsewhere. Thus a loss of income in local shops and garages (even camper vans need to fill up).

The last paragraph stated that the ban "should have a positive effect on the local area, there will be less demand on local amenties like bins and toilets at the car parks and local campsites should benefit from increased trade too" – I think the opposite is true. If you don't make visitors welcome then they will not come. Put off visitors equals no income, no profit and no jobs. I say to the councils involved improve local amenties, more litter bins, more collections, better toilets and welcome visitors, camper vans etc. A more positive way of boosting tourism.

(Authors name removed, Anderby Creek)




*Coastal park vehicles should be seized and crushed*
Wednesday, May 01, 2013

WITH reference to camper vans at coastal car parks. The main problem is not the day trippers it's the permanent residents who blatantly flaunt the law and as such ruin it for genuine visitors.

There are vehicles currently on the terrace who have no insurance and several who have not had road tax for nine years, six years and two years.

There is rubbish everywhere, the toilets are disgusting because these people abuse the facilities even filling water butts from the toilets.

They contribute nothing but take what they can.

The terrace is an eyesore because of these people and at such a time when we are supposed to be promoting it and the country park, I would encourage you to come and visit the terrace and judge for yourself.

I for one am in total support for the height restrictions and the introduction of the new bylaw to move these people on and hope that it will be closely liaised with the police so that several of these unroadworthy vehicles will be seized and crushed.

(Authors name removed, Huttoft Bank)


Read more: Coastal park vehicles should be seized and crushed | This is Lincolnshire 
Follow us: @ThisisLincs on Twitter | ThisisLincolnshire on Facebook





*Area degraded by the motorhome invasion*
Wednesday, May 01, 2013


MAY I be permitted to reply to the misguided opinions/suggestions expressed by Messrs Whalley, Watkinson and Snape on the subject of motorhome accommodation.

The Moggs Eye/Marsh Yard area has been degraded over the years by the invasion of the motorhome fraternity.

There are a minority of responsible motor-home owners who have frequented the Moggs Eye & Marsh Yard area but, in my long experience, the majority have shown themselves to be most irresponsible.

No they don't break equipment in toilet blocks during summer months, toilet blocks are a source of an unlimited supply of free, to them, water.
.
Add to this free parking for as long as they want, free rubbish collection from the ground (not in the bins) where they dump it, vandalism of the fencing, picnic benches and tables chopped up for firewood, the threats and intimidation when anyone who lives locally has objected to them destroying the facilities and desecrating the area.

Chemical toilets are emptied on the sand dunes, where people and animals can walk into the filth hidden by the undergrowth, and in the dykes surrounding the area.

The contents of their waste water tanks and drains from sinks and showers are released straight onto the ground under the parked motor-home.

Finally, the car parks are NOT closed at night, sea anglers and the like have no restrictions placed on parking unless the vehicle is over 6.4 metres high.

If your correspondents want the type of motor-home dweller I have experienced in their area then I suggest they open up their gardens and driveways to allow the free parking and facilities required by the motor-home owners.

Good work Lincolnshire County Council, it's not before time.

If people want to camp in the area then let them pay for it and if they don't, let's see the new bye-laws used to their full extent.

(Authors name removed, Sandilands)


Read more: Area degraded by the motorhome invasion | This is Lincolnshire


----------



## landyrubbertramp (May 9, 2013)

in the minds of a council thier way forard of self policing is height barriers, preeety cheap to install if you break it down over 10 years no staff needed no parking meters needed etc. is staright forward t them get under the barrier your fine if nit tough. so if you in a smallcar type camper ith pop top you will be classed as ok in the eyes of the council regardless of of how untidy oou are but if you in a big m home tough, i for my slef whenthinking ow to increase the height of my landrover so i can stand up think pop top or high hard top , the later meaning i wont get under a hight barrier, hard to meand i can store more stuff difficult descion, if i soent most of the time in the uk id g for a pop top to get round this prob with barriers but as im planing n spending more time in spain here i have yet to see a hight barrier its a high hard top all the way. i think we will jsut have to adapt ourselves and vehciles around councils and not the other way round in the future sad but i think true.


----------



## landyrubbertramp (May 9, 2013)

Mr 99g said:


> Your right there landy, sad but true. When the Barrier's are up or in their minds, there's no way back. Councils have proved that they can and do choose differently, take Lytham st Anne's , the one in Scotland , Carrickfergus and others no doubt. Can we close the gate before the horse has bolted ? :anyone:



i know i have spent alot of time in the third sector (community)wth councils so i know how they think, also remebr coucnils are looking to do less due to a number of factors i,e money and slimming don thier operations. also govermnt re looking to do less,r fromthe railways to puting the canals from british waterways to a trust, it saves them money ad  they dont have to be accountable to it. in the future evering that no essential in the eyes of a council from parks tolesiure centres will be ran by trusts the third sectors or partnership.. think of it in terms of the national trust its a seprwate thing to the councul and thefor they can charge what they want, i can see in the futre trustbtaking over alot of costal parking sites, you see trusts can raise money i e lottery funding etc tax rebates etc that counculs carnt,  this could be a good thing but it also could be a bad thing depending on how you camp etc. at the end of the day we can all do what we want if money was not an issuie. i for one dont mind paying for alot ofthings but what id ont like is when im being exploited thier is a diffrenace. we i,e my gf and her lad went to conway casslte on sunday we went for a bike ride but as soon as the 5 year old saw the castle that was that it was 4ish it closed at 5 ive never been before so i dint know what to expect, we paid for two adults and 1 child 17 sumthing pound for less than one hour and to be hoest apert from a wooden statura and a projectore in a room it was just a riund castle, yes yes i know i dint have to go and i could have =gone earluer but i just think that was expenses, how ppl on lowincomw could ever go i dont know. it was empty why couldnt they just charge half price after all in a fect is subside in the first place, as we walk out they make sure you walk out to go threw ther shop and put things as low as possible for kids they were selling swords two pices of bolsa wood with a stable and a small ribbo not more than 18iches high for 5 pounds we didnt ave one of course but its a rip off i i told them so . rant over


----------

