# Driving recorder camera????



## tiderus (Mar 13, 2013)

Greetings all, having spent my usual 3 weeks studying the pro's and con's of buying a recording car camera.

I finally decided on a £47 one from China. As its a mine field of different info.

Their are lots to choose from and I went for a full HD one. It duly arrived and I went out to try it out.  

The results were very impressive, with perfect clarity and voice recording.

With the bogus claims being tried on, plus the third party lies after the accident.

I do feel that it has been a worthwile piece of kit. So much so I have bought another for the motorhome.

At that price it does'nt break the bank, and the results were better than expected.

The model for those who may be interested is P1W, full HD recorder off e-bay.

You will need to buy a micro SD card as well. I have a class 10, 32 gig.

and don't forget to leave it unlocked in the SD adaptor, or else it will write protect it automatically.

Hope this helps anyone who fancies one, Robmac was pleased with his.

Rgd's Graham.


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## phillybarbour (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks for the tip, I have considered one for some time but not bought, hearing your comments make just be the kick I need to get on and buy one, thanks again.


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## P McClure (Mar 13, 2013)

Could we have a link please to the camera on ebay?

Found it thanks


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## Robmac (Mar 13, 2013)

Still had no problems with mine Graham. very pleased with it.


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## jimbohorlicks (Mar 13, 2013)

tiderus said:


> Greetings all, having spent my usual 3 weeks studying the pro's and con's of buying a recording car camera.
> 
> I finally decided on a £47 one from China. As its a mine field of different info.
> 
> ...




Hi There
did you plan to mount the camers somewhere and to reset it each trip to record an accident as it were in the event that an accident happened or record the accident and discussion of the details after the event?

Just interested how this would differ from a mobele phone with camera or digital camera with video,etc

Jimbo


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## Devonlad (Mar 13, 2013)

This is the one I have. Had one of the cheaper ones from Ebay was OK but this one is superb, HD, GPS Google maps with real time location speed etc. More expensive but get what you pay for.

BlackVUE DR400G HD - In-car Full HD Camcorder - GPS Version - Taxi Security Camera - Vehicle Security Camera


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## Robmac (Mar 14, 2013)

jimbohorlicks said:


> Hi There
> did you plan to mount the camers somewhere and to reset it each trip to record an accident as it were in the event that an accident happened or record the accident and discussion of the details after the event?
> 
> Just interested how this would differ from a mobele phone with camera or digital camera with video,etc
> ...



They are designed to be positioned on a mount (similar to a GPS mount) and stuck in the windscreen to record anything in front of the vehicle (you can get duo versions to record behind as well). They record for about 6 hours with the SD card and then loop around and overwrite what has been recorded and start again. In the event of an accident you would then have an exact record of what happened.


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## leosaphira (Mar 14, 2013)

Robmac said:


> They are designed to be positioned on a mount (similar to a GPS mount) and stuck in the windscreen to record anything in front of the vehicle (you can get duo versions to record behind as well). They record for about 6 hours with the SD card and then loop around and overwrite what has been recorded and start again. In the event of an accident you would then have an exact record of what happened.



Indeed - a very useful thing to have if your in the driving profession

As a HGV driver I got the roadhawk just to cover my rear end if anything was the happen as its there in video format. Can save your job/licence if the 3rd party chooses to lie... or 4 people claiming whiplash when there is only 1 person etc etc...


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## mariesnowgoose (Mar 14, 2013)

They are de rigueur in Russia!


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## oldish hippy (Mar 14, 2013)

well just glad rob didnt post the video of me lol and by now it should have recorded over so feel safe posting this


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## Makzine (Mar 14, 2013)

We have one of these in every vehicle £35.99 and comes with a 32g sd card must admit that I was supprised by the quality of the recording.  Hopeing to save on the insurance when its due to renew as well.  Russia, Japan and I believe China, they all seem to have them in their vehicles.

Here's the link to the ones I've got. 
Vehicle cameras for cars, vans & trucks. UK legal driving / motoring accessories | eBay

:have fun: stay safe :wave:


John


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## Robmac (Mar 14, 2013)

I think they should be compulsory.


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## Robmac (Mar 14, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Why oh why would we want that? Big brother of course, would be delighted. The UK is already the capital of surveillance cameras, many of them illegal too.



What is wrong with camera's. If you have nothing to hide then they shouldn't harm you. They are a good deterrant to crime. What exactly is your objection?

The only problem I see with camera's is when used like recently when Princess Kate was sunbathing. Had it been made compulsory for cars to carry cameras, many crimes would have been solved fairly quickly including murders. The police often have to rely on CCTV to ascertain what vehicles were in a particular area at a certain time, if people came forward with there own video evidence there would be much more evidence.


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## Robmac (Mar 14, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> We have nothing to hide when we defecate but I still prefer a bit of privacy. Your retort was a tad predictable, we will have to agree to disagree on this one.



Agreed (or disagreed).

But you really shouldn't be defecating on the public highway!


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## AIKIDOMO (Mar 14, 2013)

I would'nt get too carried away they would also show if you were in the wrong as well.


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## Robmac (Mar 14, 2013)

AIKIDOMO said:


> I would'nt get too carried away they would also show if you were in the wrong as well.



Nothing wrong with honesty!


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## sparrks (Mar 14, 2013)

They seem a good idea, especially at that price. Might save a costly insurance claim.


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## Robmac (Mar 14, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Ahh, GM and Ford, I can see them rubbing their corporate hands in anticipation. £40 technlogy neatly fitted into their dashboards, and the cost to renew one when it fails?? £40 ?? Nah, don't think so..



Tis if you replace it with one off EBAY!


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## Robmac (Mar 14, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> You missed the point I fear. The cost of the car will also go up disproportianately to the cost of the cheapo camera they will fit.
> 
> Anyway, must go, got an appointment with a pint of gel, Tarra.



Enjoy!


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## frontslide (Mar 14, 2013)

AIKIDOMO said:


> I would'nt get too carried away they would also show if you were in the wrong as well.


I wish the ************ that ruined my life with his appallingly driven Fiesta had had one fitted !


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## Randonneur (Mar 14, 2013)

Wish I'd had one fitted in my car yesterday coming out of Nottingham on the A453, to record the lunatic driving of the t***er in the Jaguar estate car!! Talk about queue jumping!!!


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## fairytooth (Mar 14, 2013)

Well, fortunately we all have the right to choose - to buy or not.  And I don't think there's much of a case for not being filmed on a public road - unless you are a criminal of course :lol-053:

So, a couple of questions from me.  

Would you need to keep your sunvisor down all the time to use the front camera shown in an earlier post?  I don't think I would want that.

Does anyone have one that works as a proper rear view camera?  I am thinking of getting a wireless one but there are so many  to choose from.


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## Randonneur (Mar 14, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> I wish I had one when................................................................................
> 
> I'm so glad that car did not have one when................................
> 
> ...





Hard to cause a situation when you're stopped in traffic and you get an idiot playing hop-scotch in and out of the safe braking gaps the moving traffic in the lane next to you is leaving!

It's idiots like them that put up insurance rates for the rest of us. And no.... I don't claim to be the best driver in the world either! In fact if I had to take a driving test today I would probably fail it, like a lot of people would who have'nt taken a test in a long time.

Drivers like him cause accidents by making other traffic brake sharply by being forced to allow them in and risking causing rear end collisions from following traffic. But they get away scot free and more than likely don't even care if they do cause an accident, just so long as their own car is'nt scratched. :mad1:


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## Gary Johnson (Mar 14, 2013)

I have had one for a while now, got it off Amazon with an SD card for £35.  Sits next to interior mirror , stuck on by a sucker. Starts recording when I turn on the ignition,  records in 15 min loops till the end of the card and then starts at the beginning of the card and so on.


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## Gary Johnson (Mar 14, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Well, I hope all you camera users realise that if it is situated within the part of the windsreen which is swept by the wipers YOU are committing an offence.
> 
> Now then, who reports you? And it will be an MOT fail if it's en situ when your vehicle is presented for test..
> 
> Think on before you demand they are made legal or you invite the law to* come and see my camera. *



Had my MOT two weeks ago with camera in situ and it passed with no comment


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## Robmac (Mar 14, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Well, I hope all you camera users realise that if it is situated within the part of the windsreen which is swept by the wipers YOU are committing an offence.
> 
> Now then, who reports you? And it will be an MOT fail if it's en situ when your vehicle is presented for test..
> 
> Think on before you demand they are made legal or you invite the law to* come and see my camera. *



Fairly simple really, don't position the camera in an ilegal position. Quite basic really!


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## fairytooth (Mar 14, 2013)

Flip  Flap I think we get the message that you don't like cameras on windscreens.  Always interesting to hear a different view even if we don't share it.  But as you said originally, let's agree to differ. 

 Perhaps we can move on now as some of us want to talk about cameras.


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## Sparks (Mar 14, 2013)

.


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## Sparks (Mar 14, 2013)

.


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## Sparks (Mar 14, 2013)

.


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## Sparks (Mar 14, 2013)

.


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## screevin (Mar 15, 2013)

that is right. Some truckers have had fails bcause of stuff in windows and curtains hiding the view.


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> " Where items are present in the driver’s view (such as a sat nav, air freshener etc) that would justify a Reason for Rejection,* the tester may, at their discretion,* remove the items prior to the inspection. This fact should be noted on an Advisory Notice."
> 
> And if he is in a snotty mood you will get a fail. If you are in an accident and your frontal vision is questioned don't let the law see your camera, more to the point, don't let the insurance companies know you have impaired your forward vision.
> 
> ...



It positions right in the bottom of the windscreen Derek. Similar position to a GPS. (centre bottom of screen not in zone A). Are you saying that we should all do away with GPS as well?


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

screevin said:


> that is right. Some truckers have had fails bcause of stuff in windows and curtains hiding the view.



Mine was MOT'd last week with it in position Derek.


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## kimbowbill (Mar 15, 2013)

Robmac said:


> Mine was MOT'd last week with it in position Derek.



I'm thinking of having one, mainly to record the hideous driving i encounter on a daily basis.  On my way to work yesterday, along my street which is quite narrow, cars parked on one side, i have the right of way, a car came towards me, round the cars, i had right of way, and because i didn't let her through, she was forced into a space, the verbal abuse as i drove past is unrepeatable, i gave her the v sign, as i drove on, just checked in my mirror and she was getting out of the car, so i stopped and put my car in reverse, she soon hot footed it back in the car and drove off, the camera would not catch what could have happened next, but i could have used that in evidence after i had smashed her brains in lol.


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

fairytooth said:


> Well, fortunately we all have the right to choose - to buy or not.  And I don't think there's much of a case for not being filmed on a public road - unless you are a criminal of course :lol-053:
> 
> So, a couple of questions from me.
> 
> ...



mine can be positioned anywhere in the windscreen on a GPS type mount so visor fitting not required. As for a reversing camera, the screen on mine would be too small, you can view it at a squint, but not really suitable as a reversing camera. Any videos I wish to view are downloaded to my PC and played back and surprisingly good quality for such a cheap camera. 

This is mine by the way although it was much cheaper when I bought it;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prestigio-Road-Runner-Digital-Recorder/dp/B006257O7Y/ref=pd_sxp_grid_i_1_1


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## fairytooth (Mar 15, 2013)

Thanks RobMac


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## Teutone (Mar 15, 2013)

and what are you doing with your recording of an "offense" against you? Where do you send it?

Just imaging the FLOOD of data to be viewed by officials send in from people who demand their "rights" because some clown has driven in their way (with nothing hurt but their pride). I don't like this either, but what's the problem?

So what's next, wear one of these camera in your glasses (you get them from ebay....) and record the person in the supermarket who jumped the queue in front of you and present it to the Manager in charge demanding compensation because the supermarket hasn't got the queue system right to prevent this?

Oh dear....

And the question I am interessted most, are the OFFICIALS interessted in these recordings? What gives you the right to record ME without my permission?

I have nothing to hide, I am full up for road safety, enough accidents happen already because of careless drivers. But I beleive it should be down to the officials to sort it out.

Are YOU so perfect all the time yourself? Hmmmm......


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

Teutone said:


> and what are you doing with your recording of an "offense" against you? Where do you send it?
> 
> Just imaging the FLOOD of data to be viewed by officials send in from people who demand their "rights" because some clown has driven in their way (with nothing hurt but their pride). I don't like this either, but what's the problem?
> 
> ...



Mine is for use purely in the case of an accident as evidence. I have had in the past somebody admit an accident was their fault only to deny it afterwards. Result - lost no claims for both of us.

The evidence is admissable in court. As for what right do I have to film you, same right as I have to use any camera in a public place really.


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## Gary Johnson (Mar 15, 2013)

The reason I got myself one , is to protect myself from others mistakes.  A lot of the time, in respect of accidents, it is one persons word against another, ending in knock for knock. If an accident occurs I can give a copy to the insurance company .  Mine is a cheaper version of Robmac one, fits next to mirror and does not affect vision , in fact both together, they takes up less space than those windscreen clip on mirrors.  I don`t even notice it there now .


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## fairytooth (Mar 15, 2013)

And I suppose all those naughty cyclists should be prosecuted for wearing helmet cams that do the same thing.

What, record some idiot knocking you off your bike and killing you?  How dare you think of such a breach of human rights .....


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

The fact is that my video never actually gets viewed it loops around and gets overwritten. (unless I am in an accident).


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## fairytooth (Mar 15, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Quite an assumption, and a wrong one at that.
> 
> I gave a bit of advice re the law on positioning of articles on windscreens, might haves saved a few points on licences
> 
> ...



Do you actually own a campervan Derek or do you just post off-topic comments to wind people up?


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## frontslide (Mar 15, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> I wish I had one when................................................................................
> 
> I'm so glad that car did not have one when................................
> 
> ...


Iam greatly offended at your trivialization of an horrific incident which left me with devastating appalling injuries and destroyed my happy life!!   Bladdy bladdy bladdyeffin blahh.


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## fairytooth (Mar 15, 2013)

I would say that owning a campervan or motorhome might be something that Wildcamping members are likely to have in common and share information about on this forum.  I think being evasive about such a thing tends to reinforce that you are no more than a wind up merchant.  You are on my ignore list now so a cheeky, flippant or supercilious reply isn't needed.


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## Sparks (Mar 15, 2013)

fairytooth said:


> You are on my ignore list now so a cheeky, flippant or supercilious reply isn't needed.



*This message is hidden because Flip Flap is on your ignore list*

A wonderful tool, and one that's being used more and more just lately.


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## kimbowbill (Mar 15, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Ooh I do love these combative types who come in and think they have made some devastating riposte then hide behind the screens, :lol-049:
> 
> Read a bit more carefully, I have not decried these cameras, it's how and where they are used that I am debating, if you want to get close up and personal then do so, if you want to chuck in a feeble oneliner and retreat, do so.
> 
> Me, I don't give a fairies spark.



:lol-049::lol-049::lol-049::lol-049:


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## kimbowbill (Mar 15, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Don't you'll have me blushing.



nearly spat mi coffee out when i read it, r8 funny :raofl:


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## sparrks (Mar 15, 2013)

I really can't see what all the fuss is about, if some drivers prefer to fit a small inexpensive and unobtrusive camera so what. I was fortunate in a recent accident that I was involved in that there were witnesses to it who confimed that I was stationary. A camera recording the incident then would have been beneficial if there had been no witnesses. For £35 I think they are a good idea and may purchase one myself. If you disagree so be it - move on. :wave:


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## sparrks (Mar 15, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Nobody *has* disagreed.



You're post #26 does a good impression of just that.


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## sparrks (Mar 15, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> OK with you sparrrky?



At first I thought you are a pensioner, other times I think a schoolkid, but now I'm not so sure.


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## mark61 (Mar 15, 2013)

Suppose it's possible that if cameras were compulsory, it may reduce the long delays on motorways after accidents.


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## gaz2676 (Mar 15, 2013)

i dont care what anybody elses opinion on cameras and people who install them to protect themselves in the case of a insurance claim if im to blame well there it is all on record i would be the first to hold my hands up an  say sorry..... my fault........ im gonna get one so bloody watch yersel cos im gonna be watchin  you thanks for the info much appreciated


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## Brandyman (Mar 15, 2013)

gaz2676 said:


> i dont care what anybody elses opinion on cameras and people who install them to protect themselves in the case of a insurance claim if im to blame well there it is all on record i would be the first to hold my hands up an  say sorry..... my fault........ im gonna get one so bloody watch yersel cos im gonna be watchin  you thanks for the info much appreciated



I have ordered one as well.


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## gaz2676 (Mar 15, 2013)

so which camera thingy is the best value ....this post is a mine feild ......sorry can some one repost a reasonably priced good camera link that they are now useing please... will pass on a like a thank you an a kiss ta seems a good post for bickering tho ....is it a full moon tonight?


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## sparrks (Mar 15, 2013)

gaz2676 said:


> so which camera thingy is the best value ....this post is a mine feild ......sorry can some one repost a reasonably priced good camera link that they are now useing please... will pass on a like a thank you an a kiss ta seems a good post for bickering tho ....is it a full moon tonight?



Full moon in 11days and 15hrs. No, that doesn't explain it


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## gaz2676 (Mar 15, 2013)

oh dear


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

gaz2676 said:


> so which camera thingy is the best value ....this post is a mine feild ......sorry can some one repost a reasonably priced good camera link that they are now useing please... will pass on a like a thank you an a kiss ta seems a good post for bickering tho ....is it a full moon tonight?



Hi Gaz,

I posted a link earlier in the thread. Works a treat! (post 47)

Shop around though mine cost £40


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## gaz2676 (Mar 15, 2013)

cheers rob ill trawl back thru the bickering an get the gen cheers buddy thank you xxx


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

Bit more info and footage here;

Unboxing & test: Prestigio RoadRunner HD1 - YouTube


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## gaz2676 (Mar 15, 2013)

seems canny enuff if a bit pricey will look about for price closer to what you paid......... thank you again most kind


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## Gary Johnson (Mar 15, 2013)

gaz2676 said:


> so which camera thingy is the best value ....this post is a mine feild ......sorry can some one repost a reasonably priced good camera link that they are now useing please... will pass on a like a thank you an a kiss ta seems a good post for bickering tho ....is it a full moon tonight?



This is the one I have was £35 with card. Works fine and no problem with my sat nav when this on

TaoTronics® TT-CD01 2.5" TFT LCD Car DVR Camera: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics


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## ivecotrucker (Mar 15, 2013)

Two simple questions please:

1)  Our truck, as with all our previous vehicles, is a totally technology free zone with regard to sat navs, GPS speed warners etc. so I have never had anything attached to the windscreen. Are these traffic cameras easily detachable if parking up in an area where the local Herberts like to "collect" techy items of value ?? or is the camera + recording box thingy more or less stuck there once installed ??. 

2) From the above links kindly provided there appears an enormous range of prices from c.£35 to £280+ , any views/comments on what you get for your dosh ??.

Thanks in anticipation.


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## gaz2676 (Mar 15, 2013)

Gary J .....thank you xxx


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## gaz2676 (Mar 15, 2013)

by the look of them they are mostly detachable like any gps the link rob mac posted #84 the vid makes it canny good in the test bcant fault that even at night


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

ivecotrucker said:


> Two simple questions please:
> 
> 1)  Our truck, as with all our previous vehicles, is a totally technology free zone with regard to sat navs, GPS speed warners etc. so I have never had anything attached to the windscreen. Are these traffic cameras easily detachable if parking up in an area where the local Herberts like to "collect" techy items of value ?? or is the camera + recording box thingy more or less stuck there once installed ??.
> 
> ...



Hi Michael, They are usually easily removeable, although I never do. Mine can be set to come on when motion is detected, so when parked on the drive if anybody came near the van they would get filmed. Never used this feature though as it would probably make them more determined to nick it if they saw the screen come on!
As for price, mine is at the lower end of the scale as is Gary's and we both seem to be very happy with our purchases. Are you at the Saxilby meet? If so I'll give you a demo.


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## Neckender (Mar 15, 2013)

fairytooth said:


> Well, fortunately we all have the right to choose - to buy or not.  And I don't think there's much of a case for not being filmed on a public road - unless you are a criminal of course :lol-053:
> 
> So, a couple of questions from me.
> 
> ...



Hi Fairytooth, I would think about fitting a twin reversing camera, as I've just fitted one and the rear veiws are brilliant, here is the link to who I brought mine from. in-car-stuff.com - Car Alarms & Security, Car Audio, Car DVD & TV, Reversing Cameras, Free UK delivery 

I previously had a wireless on which I fitted but had loads of trouble with the picture quality, seller replaced camera free of charge but still had problems.

John.

Ps the updates which you carried out for me on my tomtom are excellent,as we used it  for our 3 day trip to Barmouth this week.


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## ivecotrucker (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi Rob & Thanks, Both of you keeping well-ish ??. The sort of Herberts I'm thinking of would be well canny eneough to realise that they may have been caught on film (I'm thinking mostly Latino-ish, south of Rome but perhaps also here in UK). Saxilby ?,don't know it; sounds like it's up North or Lincs way ? I'll get the map out, still waiting for my Theatre appearance date, must be fairly soon now I reckon. Mines a pint that you owe me by the way !!! (remember they ran out of proper beer last time); Cheers M-H.


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

ivecotrucker said:


> Hi Rob & Thanks, Both of you keeping well-ish ??. The sort of Herberts I'm thinking of would be well canny eneough to realise that they may have been caught on film (I'm thinking mostly Latino-ish, south of Rome but perhaps also here in UK). Saxilby ?,don't know it; sounds like it's up North or Lincs way ? I'll get the map out, still waiting for my Theatre appearance date, must be fairly soon now I reckon. Mines a pint that you owe me by the way !!! (remember they ran out of proper beer last time); Cheers M-H.





 Yeah both good thanks hope you get sorted soon.


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## ivecotrucker (Mar 15, 2013)

Hello again Rob; too much froth on your animated beer pint icon thing - looks like lager to me !! 
Just seen your Post No 84, the You-Tube one; obviously the camera & box thing just attach/detach from the screen on a suction pad.  The U tube video looks good quality if it's the same as yours. 
Going off line now, it's Friday night & we really are off down 't pub - I'll have 1 or 4 for you, how generous can I get ??.
Cheers, & to J.


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## tonyclover (Apr 5, 2013)

*help the aged*

hi peeps,i have been finding ways to make driving my motor home easier to drive.and been looking at a dual camera,with mirror 7 inch screen.

cameras are fed off the screen as one feed then split for each camera.
 the tow bar view will help when im on the tracks round the Fishing lakes and as security when i am inside  feeding my face,the other cam era will be set to see down the road,as my rear window is about two foot square and the the camper is 22 feet long. the price is a bit steep at £160 but i am 69 in may and this mod should help when i renew my ticket at 70.i would like your views please


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## myshell (Apr 5, 2013)

I have a Neostar Road Watch driving recorder bought it from mysmartbuy.com at a cost of £49:99 plus cost of a 16 Gb memory card, as far as I'm concerned this was worth every penny as just prior to Christmas I was visiting relations delivering their Christmas presents, I had parked outside their home for a couple of hours and when I returned to the van I immediately noticed the front end had been badly damaged, fortunately for me the camera had recorded everything, a home delivery van with a tail lift on the back had reversed into the front of my van, the driver realised what had happened and got out to inspect the damage, had a quick look up and down the street then got back in and drove off, I reported this to the local police who sent a policeman out to inspect the damage and take a statement etc: when I showed him the recording of the incident all the evidence was clearly visible, make of vehicle, reg number, time & date and a perfect picture of the driver as he inspected the damage he'd caused, police asked if they could have a copy of the recording as they where going to prosecute the driver for failing to stop, failing to report the accident and driving without due care and attention, I also sent a copy of the recording to my insurance company which saved me having to loose my NCD and policy excess.

Regards
Phil


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## Devonlad (Apr 5, 2013)

Road Traffic Act 1988 - In Car Cameras

Car Windscreen area




Red zone = a 29cm wide band centered on the steering column
and bounded top and bottom by the wiper swept area

Be warned, if you use a suction mounted car camera in the UK, if the device (camera and / or cradle and / or suction cup) intrudes more than 4cm into the secondary (pink) wiper clearance zone, or intrudes more than 1cm into the primary (red) wiper clearance zone of the windscreen, you are committing a serious traffic offense (dangerous driving) under the UK Road Traffic Act 1988, and your vehicle is not roadworthy (it would fail an MOT).

Also / in addition, if you use a car camera with an LCD screen, if the screen is on for any of the time while you are driving and you, the driver, can view that screen, you are also committing a serious traffic offense.

If someone has sold you a windscreen suction mounted car camera, they have a legal duty to ensure
a) that the camera can actually be attached to a section of the windscreen of your particular vehicle which does not result in an unlawful intrusion of the primary (red) and / or secondary (pink) wiper clearance zone,
b) that the screen does not remain on or visible to the driver and
c) that you are aware of the law. If they sold you a suction mounted car camera without doing this, they have committed a crime. To find out how to return / report an unlawful suction mounted car camera, please see further below.
UK Law - Dangerous Driving
"In England and Wales and Scotland, a person guilty of dangerous driving is liable, on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding two years, or to a fine, or to both, or on summary conviction, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months, or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both.""A person is to be regarded as driving dangerously for the purposes of sections 1 and 2 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 if

    the way he/she drives falls far below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver, and it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous; or

    if it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving the vehicle in its current state (for the purpose of the determination of which regard may be had to anything attached to or carried on or in it, and to the manner in which it is attached or carried) would be dangerous."

Source: Wikipedia Dangerous Driving

Determination / qualification / confirmation of "dangerous" falls upon / comes from the Ministry of Transport.
Obscurations in Front Windscreens

Sellers of suction mounted car cameras should note the text; "Further to this, The Road Traffic Act 1988 (as amended by Section 8 of the Road Traffic Act 1991) Part II, 40A, Using Vehicle in Dangerous Condition, states that: A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on the road when: (a) the condition of the motor vehicle or trailer, or of its accessories or equipment,... is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person."

Further legislation comes under The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986;
30.—(3) All glass or other transparent material fitted to a motor vehicle shall be maintained in such condition that it does not obscure the vision of the driver while the vehicle is being driven on a road.

The Freight Transport Association of Great Britain clearly and simply state UK traffic law here.

In addition, car camera LCD screens can not legally be viewed by the driver!
Most of these unlawful suction cup mounted car cams are further made unlawful, even illegal, by token of the fact most, if not all provide an LCD TV screen which remains on, or which the default is on.

Please see Article 109 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

Windscreen Suction Cup Mounted Car Camera Sellers
UK sellers of these devices must disclose which vehicles their units can be lawfully used in. Legal use means the suction cup, cradle and camera must NOT intrude more than the 1cm/4cm limit into the wiper clearance zone of a vehicle, and any active LCD screen must NOT be visible to the driver. As the wiper clearance zone varies from vehicle to vehicle, the seller must physically test their car cameras to make sure it is possible, or to obtain specification on the wiper clearance zone from the vehicle manufacturer to be able to determine this. If they can not / do not disclose whether their units can be legally used in your particular vehicle's make and model, they are breaking the law by causing you to commit a motoring offense of dangerous driving. In addition, the seller of the car camera MUST explicitly make you aware of the fact the camera (suction cup, cradle and camera) must NOT intrude more than the 1cm/4cm limit into the wiper clearance zone of your vehicle, or again they are causing you to commit a traffic offense.

What to do if you have been sold a windscreen suction mounted car camera.
If you are not prepared to / can not use it legally outside the wiper clearance zone of your vehicle, perhaps because by doing so the video it takes is impaired by being in such a location / the dirty section of your windscreen, and if the seller has not sold the unit lawfully as above, then you can and perhaps should return the unit for a full refund. If you paid by PayPal or credit card, you can try to get the payment revoked on the basis the sale was fraudulently made under the Sale of Goods Act (that it was not suitable for the purpose for which it was sold). If you are outside the charge back time limit and the seller argues / refuses to refund, you can threaten them with a Trading Standards complaint, or you may want to make a Trading Standards complaint against them in any case. If you bought the item via eBay UK, the Trading Standards office that handles eBay UK complaints is Richmond upon Thames; click here.

Remember, you can be fined, get points on your license, lose your license and / or even go to jail for dangerous driving, which includes driving with an obscuration (obstruction) of the windscreen area. If you are involved in an accident, the very thing you hoped would give you legal evidence can easily be turned against you. If you take your vehicle to a MOT centre with an unlawful suction mounted car camera in place, your vehicle will fail its MOT.

If you want to use a car camera, make sure it is NOT windscreen suction mounted UNLESS it is guaranteed to be able to operate lawfully outside your particular vehicle's wiper clearance zone. Or, you can buy a dash mounted camera (again, make sure it does not obscure more than 1cm/4cm of the wiper cleared windscreen visibility area) or a visor mounted car camera.

Article taken from suction-mounted-car-cameras.blogspot.co.uk


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## Smaug (Apr 5, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Wasting your time I fear. I believe rear view screens may be exempt but none I've used were screen mounted anyway.



Yes, I was amused about the LCD screen comment, my rear view camera is the only way I can see cars that get too close for the door mirrors, I doubt that would be illegal, despite the use of an LCD screen to replace the pointless mirror (my rear window is frosted & hidden behind the bog door).

I find drive cameras an interesting idea, but not a high enough priority to bother with yet, I find defensive driving works well enough in the rural locations where I general drive the van.


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## Neckender (Apr 5, 2013)

tonyclover said:


> hi peeps,i have been finding ways to make driving my motor home easier to drive.and been looking at a dual camera,with mirror 7 inch screen.
> 
> cameras are fed off the screen as one feed then split for each camera.
> the tow bar view will help when im on the tracks round the Fishing lakes and as security when i am inside  feeding my face,the other cam era will be set to see down the road,as my rear window is about two foot square and the the camper is 22 feet long. the price is a bit steep at £160 but i am 69 in may and this mod should help when i renew my ticket at 70.i would like your views please



Hi tonyclover, I fitted the same about 4 weeks ago and as you say I have a rear view now even though I don't have a rear window.

John.


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## Smaug (Apr 6, 2013)

I forgot to say, I got a 40 quid discount off my insurance premium, which paid for 70% of the cost of the parts (self fitted). Next renewal will put me in profit! :cool1:


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