# Is the Golden Age Over - Portinscale



## Mul

The (in)famous Layby @ Portinscale, Keswick.

Thin end of the wedge ... end of an era ... golden age past it's prime ... another one bites the dust ?

Ok, doesn't appear to have a TRO etc signed, but nonetheless what with Devon, St Andrews, Whitby, Stonehaven .... !!

Glad we did our heyday of touring a few yrs ago. Now too (over)popular for our own good, I think.


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## Herman

Why, It's empty at night except for motorhomes, your not blocking anyone's view or drive.
In four years time I'm going to retire at 60 hopefully and i'm going to bugger off to France.


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## Mul

Why, why indeed ? No harm, gets busy I know only 20m from me.

8yrs we're buggering off to France too. These pisspot Isles of narrowmindeness can't shove their not-in-my-backyard up their own 'rse soon enough for us.


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## Canalsman

The sign is advisory as it stands ...


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## Canalsman

Herman said:


> Why, It's empty at night except for motorhomes, your not blocking anyone's view or drive.
> In four years time I'm going to retire at 60 hopefully and i'm going to bugger off to France.



Not so easy after Brexit sadly!


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## st3v3

POI Admin said:


> Not so easy after Brexit sadly!



But still entirely possible!


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## QFour

It's a shame that the Local Councils are run by such narrow minded idiots who cannot see the benefit of providing spaces for MH parking. The Council in Whitby for instance are complaining about Caravans and MH's parking on their car parks for the Goth Festival. If they don't want them then why not just cancel the festival. The Councillors seem to think that a camp site 3 - 4 miles out of town is good enough or they should use the local hotels or B & B's. They really don't have a clue.

Unfortunately Motor Homing is getting very popular and there are a number of different sites where you can find locations to park for a night. A few have facilities but many don't and the problems arise when people don't want to leave their really nice spot just to go and empty the black / grey waste. The Councils should do more to address this problem rather than just putting up more and more signs saying No Motor Homes 10pm to 8am - No Sleeping - No Overnight Parking. It doesn't solve a problem it just moves it somewhere else.

The French have gone about it in a totally different way and actively provide overnight stops. Some are not brilliant or in the nicest places but they are there. They generate money for local stores and bars / restaurants and provide jobs for people in the tourist industry. The Local Councils have embraced the idea that MH's are worth attracting.

We have had some really great times in the Uk and have found loads of different places to park for a night. We have been back to some and found No Overnight Sleeping signs but it just means that the Cafe we went in last time has lost out financially and one a few miles up the coast has had the business instead. If we cannot park we don't bother staying. I refuse to buy two tickets to park so we just move on. Local shops miss out and the Supermarkets win because they provide parking. Then you hear the Local Council is looking at initiatives to bring in more trade because the High Street is dying. So the first thing they do is nip round and put hight barriers up everywhere.

..


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## mistericeman

Sadly a result of increases in popularity and the resulting saturation of popular publicised spots...

Seen it all happen before in the 4x4 world... 
Pre Internet there were miles and miles of lanes to be driven... Often without seeing another soul, 
Post Internet and routes posted for all and sundry to see without much in the way of effort... 
Too much traffic resulted in routes being closed due to irresponsible actions and a larger number of folks being forced into an ever decreasing number of routes.... 
Sound familiar???


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## colinm

Whilst France generally has a better attitude towards motohomes I've still come across laybys and coastal carparks which ban motorhomes.


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## alcam

colinmd said:


> Whilst France generally has a better attitude towards motohomes I've still come across laybys and coastal carparks which ban motorhomes.



Indeed . Whether we like it or not we can be a problem . Especially in large numbers . 
Sure I read previously the French were forced to adopt the Aire concept because motorhomes were a problem . A few councils here have taken that more enlightened approach whether it is cost effective for them is another matter .


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## barryd

alcam said:


> Indeed . Whether we like it or not we can be a problem . Especially in large numbers .
> Sure I read previously the French were forced to adopt the Aire concept because motorhomes were a problem . A few councils here have taken that more enlightened approach whether it is cost effective for them is another matter .



Yes I understand thats partly why Aires in France came about.  They exist perfectly well alongside the thousands of campsites in France as well.  Oddly here the campsite owners and council officials seem to be under the impression that if they ban motorhomes from parking that this will somehow herd them into their campsites.  They are very much mistaken.  It just ends up with wild campers boycotting the area.  As said its so much easier to just head across to mainland Europe where not only are we welcome and wilding is generally easier they have laid on thousands of free or low cost Aires, Sostas and Stellplatz for us.

Add to that what a PIA the UK road network is, the crappy weather then there is very little "pull" for me to motorhome here.  in fact if I go away in the motorhome  in the UK now its either a CL on a farm site around Ullswater which is pretty much on my doorstep, A CL on the North Yorks coast or the Isle of Arran but most summers I can be found living it large in the sunshine in Provence, the Alps or the Pyrenees.


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## Philredcar

*Advisory*



colinmd said:


> Whilst France generally has a better attitude towards motohomes I've still come across laybys and coastal carparks which ban motorhomes.



Are the signs in Keswick/portonscale still advisory or are they checked, thanks


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## Nabsim

mistericeman said:


> Sadly a result of increases in popularity and the resulting saturation of popular publicised spots...
> 
> Seen it all happen before in the 4x4 world...
> Pre Internet there were miles and miles of lanes to be driven... Often without seeing another soul,
> Post Internet and routes posted for all and sundry to see without much in the way of effort...
> Too much traffic resulted in routes being closed due to irresponsible actions and a larger number of folks being forced into an ever decreasing number of routes....
> Sound familiar???



A lot of the decrease in spots for 4x4 was due to the nuisance and damage caused though. I am not anti off readers but do or have seen some of the results and it’s not pretty. Probably more damage caused by the bikes in most parts I admit.

Thing is in all areas of interest as folks get more leisure time you will have more people doing it. We should embrace that and ensure there are places for people to carry out their interests.


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## John H

POI Admin said:


> Not so easy after Brexit sadly!



Look in the bright side - you'll still get three months


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## Fisherman

Totally agree with the posts on here, but what saddens me more than anything is not the attitudes of the councils or the public, but some of the wild campers on here.

Each time another one goes they tell us it’s our own fault, whilst defending councils who’s only remit seems to be to prevent us from wild camping at all costs.


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## alcam

Fisherman said:


> Totally agree with the posts on here, but what saddens me more than anything is not the attitudes of the councils or the public, but some of the wild campers on here.
> 
> Each time another one goes they tell us it’s our own fault, whilst defending councils who’s only remit seems to be to prevent us from wild camping at all costs.



In some cases it is the fault of , at least some , motorhomers . Unfortunately councils take the easy option . Instead of finding a solution , which would benefit everybody , they just ban us . 
Whitby is a prime example , for very little outlay they could accommodate us (not at peak festival times) making money for town , marina and local businesses


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## rugbyken

the introduction of official aires in france was down to general de Gaulle post ww11   the french were pre war so parochial that the aires were brought in to get the different departments to mix,


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## witzend

POI Admin said:


> Not so easy after Brexit sadly!



How,s that then ? Whats going to make it more difficult

France isn,t what it was a few years ago
It,s also getting very busy and attracting commercial interests


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## barryd

witzend said:


> How,s that then ? Whats going to make it more difficult
> 
> France isn,t what it was a few years ago
> It,s also getting very busy and attracting commercial interests



We wont be part of the EU, we will be a third country and subject to limits on how long we can stay in Europe. Three months max in any six.


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## Fisherman

alcam said:


> In some cases it is the fault of , at least some , motorhomers . Unfortunately councils take the easy option . Instead of finding a solution , which would benefit everybody , they just ban us .
> Whitby is a prime example , for very little outlay they could accommodate us (not at peak festival times) making money for town , marina and local businesses




Of course there are bad motorhomes out there, who have created problems.
But the blunt instrument used by over zealous councils is not how to solve the problem.


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## Fisherman

The question is

Is the golden age over.

And the answer is yes.

But what upsets me the most is the fact that we seem to simply accept this,
And some cannot even see what lies ahead.
Yes we will continue to add rural pois, but the urban pois will slowly disappear, putting more pressure on those that are left.

The big problem I have already posted on is the domino effect.
With each council closing access to us, it has now become the norm to erect barriers, or put up signage stopping us from parking.  

No one out there is fighting our corner, and that has to change.


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## malagaoth

> But the blunt instrument used by over zealous councils is not how to solve the problem



and what would your solution be, 
dedicated parking? you  would then be fighting for more spaces or spaces in a different part of town


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## phillybarbour

Still having great times in the van, however we prefer rural locations and have had few issues. It’s not France but we still love it.


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## mickymost

phillybarbour said:


> Still having great times in the van, however we prefer rural locations and have had few issues. It’s not France but we still love it.



Do you drive more than 56mph?


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## Fisherman

malagaoth said:


> and what would your solution be,
> dedicated parking? you  would then be fighting for more spaces or spaces in a different part of town



As I don't live near Whitby or have ever visited it I don't know what the answer would be.
But Whitby barring motorhomes will move them somewhere else, and as more and more local councils ban us,
the spaces left will become overcrowded, leading to further bans.

But unlike you I am not prepared to accept that one or two bad apples should lead to motorhomes being barred.

I am sure there are other issues at Whitby that have not nor will ever be solved.
But as per usual its us who suffer.

You keep telling yourself and anyone else who will listen that there is no solution.
There is always a solution, but the councils are simply taking the easy cheap way out.


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## mistericeman

Fisherman said:


> There is always a solution, but the councils are simply taking the easy cheap way out.



Cash strapped councils with a already established tourist trade taking the easy way out ???

The tourists that spend far more than your average motorhomer does are already beating the doors down for most of the year ...the council obviously arent interested in investing in anything to do with motorhomes campervans ...


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## yorkslass

Fisherman said:


> As I don't live near Whitby or have ever visited it I don't know what the answer would be.
> But Whitby barring motorhomes will move them somewhere else, and as more and more local councils ban us,
> the spaces left will become overcrowded, leading to further bans.
> 
> But unlike you I am not prepared to accept that one or two bad apples should lead to motorhomes being barred.
> 
> I am sure there are other issues at Whitby that have not nor will ever be solved.
> But as per usual its us who suffer.
> 
> You keep telling yourself and anyone else who will listen that there is no solution.
> There is always a solution, but the councils are simply taking the easy cheap way out.





The council's answer to everything is to herd everyone on to campsites. 

Because they live in ivory towers they have people in who agree with them and their point of view, not ordinary people who, heaven above, may see things differently.


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## mickymost

yorkslass said:


> The council's answer to everything is to herd everyone on to campsites.
> 
> Because they live in ivory towers they have people in who agree with them and their point of view, not ordinary people who, heaven above, may see things differently.



Well said!


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## mickymost

mickymost said:


> Well said!



Jobs for the boys/girls im afraid!(councillors)


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## mickymost

yorkslass said:


> The council's answer to everything is to herd everyone on to campsites.
> 
> Because they live in ivory towers they have people in who agree with them and their point of view, not ordinary people who, heaven above, may see things differently.



Campsites regimental rows,rules,views of the surrounding hedges not for me thank you!


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## Fisherman

mistericeman said:


> Cash strapped councils with a already established tourist trade taking the easy way out ???
> 
> The tourists that spend far more than your average motorhomer does are already beating the doors down for most of the year ...the council obviously arent interested in investing in anything to do with motorhomes campervans ...



Ah well that’s that sorted then.

Just close all the urban carparks to campers and Motorhomes, then we can all either head for campsites ( if you book months in advance), head for remote locations, book into a B&B, or sell your van. Take your pick.
Only problem, there will be a glut of vans for sale and you might not do well when you sell up.


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## malagaoth

> You keep telling yourself and anyone else who will listen that there is no solution



I dont say that there is no solution I say that I dont what a workable  solution is.





> Campsites regimental rows,rules,views of the surrounding hedges not for me thank you



yes the situation as photographed in Whitby is far better - I dont think!

actually you may think that parking tight up against another motorhome is preferable - apparently quite a few do, as an example I was parked up in a ferry terminal carpark in Scotland  - I was catching the 6.00 ferry and the operator is quite relaxed about over night parking - I was parked alonside another motorhome with a gap of about 20 feet, lo and behold about an hour later another motorhome arrived and parked between us, no need for him to do so he just some how felt it was appropriate! - if we had opened our side windows we could have shaken hands!

I drove off to the other end of the almost empty carpark about 50 yards away


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## Fisherman

yorkslass said:


> The council's answer to everything is to herd everyone on to campsites.
> 
> Because they live in ivory towers they have people in who agree with them and their point of view, not ordinary people who, heaven above, may see things differently.



Try booking a campsite near Whitby less than three months before your visit, no chance.

We are banging our heads of a wall here.

It’s all our fault, we deserve to be treated like crap.
After all we gave the government thousands in vat when we bought our vans, pay our road tax, fuel duty, and insurance..  we keep thousands of people in a job, add hundreds of millions to the economy, and are mainly people who have worked hard all of our lives to be able to afford what we have now got.

Yes we deserve what is dished out to us, it’s all our fault.


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## mistericeman

Fisherman said:


> Ah well that’s that sorted then.
> 
> Just close all the urban carparks to campers and Motorhomes, then we can all either head for campsites ( if you book months in advance), head for remote locations, book into a B&B, or sell your van. Take your pick.
> Only problem, there will be a glut of vans for sale and you might not do well when you sell up.



IF you want to pay to stay on some council supplied 'area' then that's up to you.... 

I'm still frankly puzzled how being in some carpark/Park and ride /Iceland car park etc 
Has much to do with to do with 'wild camping'.... 

Ill not be selling my van.... And doing the same as I've always done... 
Use a map and Google earth etc to head off away from folks into unpopulated areas where I suspect lots have no idea I'm there or have been there.


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## mickymost

malagaoth said:


> I dont say that there is no solution I say that I dont what a workable  solution is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yes the situation as photographed in Whitby is far better - I dont think!
> 
> actually you may think that parking tight up against another motorhome is preferable
> 
> I drove off to the other end of the almost empty carpark about 50 yards away




No actually I dont think its preferable to sit on top of other motorhomes we like our space and would move if we found a good space THEN some other oik parked tight next door

So sorry you are wrong on that point


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## Fisherman

mistericeman said:


> IF you want to pay to stay on some council supplied 'area' then that's up to you....
> 
> I'm still frankly puzzled how being in some carpark/Park and ride /Iceland car park etc
> Has much to do with to do with 'wild camping'....
> 
> Ill not be selling my van.... And doing the same as I've always done...
> Use a map and Google earth etc to head off away from folks into unpopulated areas where I suspect lots have no idea I'm there or have been there.




Wild Camping did I say that, well blow me away then.

So you enjoy the rural locations, good for you.
You might be surprised to know that not everyone has your taste in POIs.
Or is it simply, 'I am alright Jack'

bye the way I am posting from the north of Scotland near Dingwall, by the side of a loch who's name I don't know.
I to enjoy rural POIs, but I appreciate that others prefer visiting less rural locations.


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## malagaoth

> I'm still frankly puzzled how being in some carpark/Park and ride /Iceland car park etc
> Has much to do with to do with 'wild camping'[/quote
> 
> exactly!
> 
> I struggle to understand the thinking of people who complain about being crammed in regmented rows in a camp site yet willing park as per image of Whitby
> 
> town center car parks have their place I have used them (where permitted)  but I wouldnt regard it as 'wild camping'
> 
> 
> You might be surprised to know that not everyone has your taste in POIs.
> 
> not every one likes the same things that is for sure but if being one of 50 motorhomes crammed into a slightly squalid Whitby carpark is your thing might I reccommend Jules Ferry  near Calais? free phone charging and showers!


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## Fisherman

malagaoth said:


> I'm still frankly puzzled how being in some carpark/Park and ride /Iceland car park etc
> Has much to do with to do with 'wild camping'[/quote
> 
> exactly!
> 
> I struggle to understand the thinking of people who complain about being crammed in regmented rows in a camp site yet willing park as per image of Whitby
> 
> town center car parks have their place I have used them (where permitted)  but I wouldnt regard it as 'wild camping'
> 
> 
> You might be surprised to know that not everyone has your taste in POIs.
> 
> not every one likes the same things that is for sure but if being one of 50 motorhomes crammed into a slightly squalid Whitby carpark is your thing might I reccommend Jules Ferry  near Calais? free phone charging and showers!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So perhaps we should get admin to remove all urban pois then, after all its not real 'wild camping'
> 
> I occasionally use urban pois because you can get better locations within the town than the camp site.
> Also normally you have to book weeks in advance to get into a camp site.
> 
> Take Cellardyke near Anstruther. You can go to the campsite and get a pitch looking onto a road, or head down to the shore and enjoy the sea views.
> And normally you are alone or possibly one other van may be there also.
> There are many other examples I could give.
Click to expand...


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## mickymost

Fisherman said:


> So perhaps we should get admin to remove all urban pois then, after all its not real 'wild camping'
> 
> I occasionally use urban pois because you can get better locations within the town than the camp site.
> 
> You can go to the campsite and get a pitch looking onto a road, or head down to the shore and enjoy the sea views.
> And normally you are alone or possibly one other van may be there also.




Thats the beauty of wild camping to be able to choose where one parks up with Facilities i/e shops on ones doorstep or Sea views being near a beach rather than  being pressured to stay on a campsite where you cant arrive till 2pm and have to be off by 10am(example)and pay through the nose for the privilege 
some urban POIS Tick a box to some but not others same with the rural POIS they may not suit everyone so horses for courses as they say.

Michael


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## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> Thats the beauty of wild camping to be able to choose where one parks up with Facilities i/e shops on ones doorstep or Sea views being near a beach rather than  being pressured to stay on a campsite where you cant arrive till 2pm and have to be off by 10am(example)and pay through the nose for the privilege
> some urban POIS Tick a box to some but not others same with the rural POIS they may not suit everyone so horses for courses as they say.
> 
> Michael



Yep, spot on Michael.
But the TRUE wildcampers on here reckon that unless you are surrounded by by farmland, wild animals, and the great outdoors you are no “wild camper”, you are simply a pale simulation of what wild camping is all about. 
I love all of the above, but I also know that some prefer more urban locations.
We are all wild campers but with varying preferences.


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## mickymost

Fisherman said:


> Yep, spot on Michael.
> But the TRUE wildcampers on here reckon that unless you are surrounded by by farmland, wild animals, and the great outdoors you are no “wild camper”, you are simply a pale simulation of what wild camping is all about.
> I love all of the above, but I also know that some prefer more urban locations.
> We are all wild campers but with varying preferences.



Thank you Bill for your lovely reply and comments

Im a bit confused at present as you say the TRUE wildcampers on here like farmland animals great outdoors etc rather than the alternative being some Urban Pois im just wondering how many TRUE wildcampers on this Forum arent just loving the countryside POIS and are happy to mix it up with some Urban spots.Just recently im thinking some supposed TRUE wildcampers on here are just looking for a fight an argument and wonder if actually they own a Motorhome or Campervan themselves.Bill what do you think?

regards Michael


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## maureenandtom

Quite a long time ago – ten years or so - there were a number of surveys and examinations carried out in a number of countries.   Most official in that they were carried out on behalf of Governmental tourism bodies.  I used to have, and probably still have, if I could find them, surveys from Australia, New Zealand, Florida and Italy.   All of them stressed that the motorhome hospitality industry was worth more to local economies that other forms for tourism.   They were talking of our sort of motorhome tourism – not the sort that uses campsites.   I guess that they were taking out the cost of accommodation from the equation – but maybe not. I don't know.

The one I can find a copy of easily - though not commissioned by any governmental body you can get from my dropbox if you want.  It's fairly old but I think probably still valid.   This one is a European-wide survey.







The dropbox link is Dropbox - The european motorhomers-summary of Answers to International Survey.pdf

About a year ago there was a Northern Ireland council carried out its own similar survey.  I never saw a result but, some time soon, I'll look it up and ask for a copy.  Unless anyone already has it?  It'll be interesting to see a modern survey.

The thing is – we're not poor relations;  we are an asset.


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## mickymost

maureenandtom said:


> Quite a long time ago – ten years or so - there were a number of surveys and examinations carried out in a number of countries.   Most official in that they were carried out on behalf of Governmental tourism bodies.  I used to have, and probably still have, if I could find them, surveys from Australia, New Zealand, Florida and Italy.   All of them stressed that the motorhome hospitality industry was worth more to local economies that other forms for tourism.   They were talking of our sort of motorhome tourism – not the sort that uses campsites.   I guess that they were taking out the cost of accommodation from the equation – but maybe not. I don't know.
> 
> The one I can find a copy of easily - though not commissioned by any governmental body you can get from my dropbox if you want.  It's fairly old but I think probably still valid.   This one is a European-wide survey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dropbox link is Dropbox - The european motorhomers-summary of Answers to International Survey.pdf
> 
> About a year ago there was a Northern Ireland council carried out its own similar survey.  I never saw a result but, some time soon, I'll look it up and ask for a copy.  Unless anyone already has it?  It'll be interesting to see a modern survey.
> 
> The thing is – we're not poor relations;  we are an asset.



Without being racist or predudiced  and I apologise in advance but proper travellers/gypsies/romanies etc can park up without reason wherever they want and are left alone 

We are the upmarket relations in a way and are tidy when we stop and take our rubbish away with us but are not allowed to enjoy the freedom this travelling  lifestyle brings and are constantly battling with authorities to find someplace free (or low cost within reason)to park up,to enjoy the area and surroundings
So why are we a problem what can be done  to promote us and the advantages we bring to local communities?


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## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> Thank you Bill for your lovely reply and comments
> 
> Im a bit confused at present as you say the TRUE wildcampers on here like farmland animals great outdoors etc rather than the alternative being some Urban Pois im just wondering how many TRUE wildcampers on this Forum arent just loving the countryside POIS and are happy to mix it up with some Urban spots.Just recently im thinking some supposed TRUE wildcampers on here are just looking for a fight an argument and wonder if actually they own a Motorhome or Campervan themselves.Bill what do you think?
> 
> regards Michael



I rather think that some folk just think of themselves and their preferences only.
So long as they can get access to the type of pois they desire they quite frankly don’t give a hoot about anyone else. They self define wild camping as involving the great outdoors, and almost despise anyone who wants to go to a seaside resort or a larger urban poi. 
They seem to revel in the loss of another urban poi, pointing the blame at their fellow campers, supporting narrow minded vindictive councils.
We were even informed on here recently that most of the losses in pois are urban, as if this is ok. The fact is the urban pois are limited, whereas you will always be able to find somewhere to stay in rural locations. There are many were I live not listed on here. I intend doing a recy soon and sending them to poi admin with photos.


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## Fisherman

maureenandtom said:


> Quite a long time ago – ten years or so - there were a number of surveys and examinations carried out in a number of countries.   Most official in that they were carried out on behalf of Governmental tourism bodies.  I used to have, and probably still have, if I could find them, surveys from Australia, New Zealand, Florida and Italy.   All of them stressed that the motorhome hospitality industry was worth more to local economies that other forms for tourism.   They were talking of our sort of motorhome tourism – not the sort that uses campsites.   I guess that they were taking out the cost of accommodation from the equation – but maybe not. I don't know.
> 
> The one I can find a copy of easily - though not commissioned by any governmental body you can get from my dropbox if you want.  It's fairly old but I think probably still valid.   This one is a European-wide survey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The dropbox link is Dropbox - The european motorhomers-summary of Answers to International Survey.pdf
> 
> About a year ago there was a Northern Ireland council carried out its own similar survey.  I never saw a result but, some time soon, I'll look it up and ask for a copy.  Unless anyone already has it?  It'll be interesting to see a modern survey.
> 
> The thing is – we're not poor relations;  we are an asset.



What’s forgotten is councils are heavily subsidised by national government, and we contribute greatly to the national economy. We pay hundreds of millions in vat each year in van purchases, fuel duty must also run into hundreds of millions, and of course road tax not to mention the thousands of people we keep in tax paying jobs, who would otherwise be unemployed depending on social security instead.

We always spend locally wherever we go.
We generally prefer cooking our own meals, because this is part of the camping experience for us.
But we spent over £500 in Arran Active last year in clothing, and we buy snacks and coffees wherever we venture.

But do we really have to do this, I don’t think so.
Should councils only provide services for those who provide their local areas with profit, or are they not liable to provide for everyone of us, from children, the unemployed, poorer members of our country, and even visitors from abroad.

Things have to change or sales of Motorhomes will start to fall, and many will find themselves looking for alternative employment.


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## Borders2

One of the marvels of the modern age is that we can do "this" right now which is to communicate instantly. 

30 years ago this was impossible, and if concils then were behaving as they are now then communicating with them would be pretty near to impossible apart from sending thousands of letters. 

However.......... we are in the happy pposition that we can mail every council and MP with the click of a mouse so........... I suggest that we put together a package showing the upside of our "hobby" and point out to the (lol) so called great and the good and send it to every councilor, MP and Lord. And keep sending it until the penny drops. 

As the TV chappie says, the power is in our hands. Let's use it?

B2


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## maureenandtom

A very important point which is almost invariably overlooked by those of who think we bring bans on ourselves is this following.

Those denigrating us point to (sometimes fake) pictures of motorhomes crowded into a particular location – invariably during daylight.     

Yet the bans are invariably for overnighting.   That picture in Whitby or that (fake) picture in Keswick does not result in a ban on daytime parking;  it results in a ban on overnight parking.  We never seem to make much of that – only once that I can think of.   The problem allegedly complained of continues to exist.  That ban in Whitby will not solve the problem of a full car park during the day;  it will just mean a deserted car park during the night – when nobody is bothered anyway.

The fake reporting in Keswick https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...-looking-good-future-3.html?highlight=Keswick   - post 24.

From the (fake) article at Call for action after caravans turn Lake District road into 'shanty town' | Times & Star – though the fake picture was removed when one of our members objected to the newspaper.

_"Coun Duncan Miller said: "We should be saying to the county council enough is enough. We don't mind motor homes and caravans sitting there during the day but there should be a sign saying no overnight parking." "_

Scarborough council included a ban on (I think Royal Albert Drive or West Cliff) saying that daytime numbers meant that they had to ban overnighting because of complaints from overlooking properties having their view ruined.   The ban was lifted, and nobody had red faces, after it was pointed out to the council that Royal Albert Drive (or West Cliff maybe) was under cliffs and affected nobody's view – unless perhaps from the sea looking towards land.

There are no properties there to have their views ruined.  Just one more instance of a council saying what sounds reasonable rather than basing their ban on facts.  If nobody had gone and looked at, or knew, the location then some of us would have said something like, _“well l wouldn't want my view ruined either so it's our own fault”_ and the lie would have been accepted as gospel and the council only doing its job.  

The outcome in Whitby was that, till this day, there is no ban on Royal Albert Drive where the council attempted to impose one using lies to try to achieve their objective.  Sometimes our submissions do work and we should unite in fighting these bans.


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## caledonia

The Golden age certainly ain’t over for me. Just get out and enjoy the places we can park and have fun finding new ones. Many on here have tried to fight the fight and if it was as easy as the Fisherman thinks it is to tell the councils the are doing it wrong Mo and Tom would have done it. Life’s to short get out and enjoy it.


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## Fisherman

caledonia said:


> The Golden age certainly ain’t over for me. Just get out and enjoy the places we can park and have fun finding new ones. Many on here have tried to fight the fight and if it was as easy as the Fisherman thinks it is to tell the councils the are doing it wrong Mo and Tom would have done it. Life’s to short get out and enjoy it.



What a load of tosh,

First where on here have I said it was easy caledonia, please show me.

Also why do you insist on only referring to myself as if I am alone with my thoughts.

Just getting ready to head out of Dingwall heading further north, towards Thurso, I am enjoying myself.

Shame you cannot head back to Musselburgh now, I hear they have put signage up not only there, but in other locations. :lol-049:


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## caledonia

You must have a stop at Latheronwheel while your up that way it’s lovely. Try and enjoy yourself and don’t take the NOP signs to personally.


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## malagaoth

> Without being racist or predudiced and I apologise in advance but proper travellers/gypsies/romanies etc can park up without reason wherever they want and are left alone



Not quite true....but you probably knew that

"bid to remove 'travellers' from shopping center car park"
Council goes to court over travellers in shoppers' car park - Devon Live

Traveller families to be evicted from car park - Mid Ulster Mail

"Travellers set up camp on Sainsbury's car park - but are evicted within hours"
Travellers set up camp on Sainsbury's car park - but are evicted within hours - Birmingham Live

"TRAVELLERS who were evicted from a park and ride "
Travellers 'move into Tesco Cowley car park' | Oxford Mail


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## Fisherman

caledonia said:


> You must have a stop at Latheronwheel while your up that way it’s lovely. Try and enjoy yourself and don’t take the NOP signs to personally.



Will take a look at that one Caledonia, but we are heading for Thurso.
I have a friend up there and he is letting us use his drive and his leccy.


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## malagaoth

> Will take a look at that one Caledonia, but we are heading for Thurso



Latheronwheel is on your way there at Dunbeith just before the A9 to Thurse splits from the A99 to Wick

nice harbour with toilets or if you drive 100 yrds further passed the harbour there is a small slightly sloping carpark beside a picnic area.

Last time I was there I was totally blanked by a local  quite a change from all the friendliness I had encountered previously on my trip


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## Fisherman

I will take a look on the way home on Sunday.
Sounds like one for the future cheers.


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