# Help! Power & acceleration dropped



## mariesnowgoose (Feb 27, 2021)

OK, so not everyone reads all the threads, and one of our full time members (NZ) is having a *terrible time* with their van.

He's just paid a fortune - and I mean a fortune! - for a massive service, MOT etc.

However, since he's travelled away from the garage to his next park up, this now happens:-

*"BUT NOW
Boxy is sulking I think, The Power & Acceleration is absolutely terrible, it’s like Limp mode without the Engine check light on 
40mph no hill power*"

Any of you mechanically-minded bods out there got an idea where to start with getting to the bottom of the problem?

Thanks!


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## RoaminRog (Feb 27, 2021)

Get it back to the garage Paul, maybe they’ve left something unplugged.


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## izwozral (Feb 27, 2021)

EGR valve issue?


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## mariesnowgoose (Feb 27, 2021)

My own (non-mechanical!) thoughts are fuel starvation, but how and where?


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## 2cv (Feb 27, 2021)

Could be lots of different causes, but a faulty MAF sensor would apparently give similar symptoms. Presumably the garage that recently carried out lots of work will sort this out.


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## izwozral (Feb 27, 2021)

My Saab had similar problems, turned out the EGR valve needed cleaning, it was totally coked up.

If EGR valve:
Boxy goes into limp mode then dies and if it fires up again there will be a huge amount of black smoke from the exhaust, it will run for a while then the same thing will happen after a few miles.

As Bill says, it could be anything. First call is the garage.


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2021)

Yeah I’m going to get the lads that are doing the Tracking on Boxy Monday to see if they can plug in & see if there’s a fault code if they have the kit, if not, it’s BACK to the Original Garage for them to have a peek.
I might as well ask If anyone wants any money to fix their vehicles as well, in for a penny in for a pound


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## st3v3 (Feb 27, 2021)

Pipe off the turbo?

But yea, back to the garage


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## RichardHelen262 (Feb 27, 2021)

Check turbo pipes for any splits, also check the air filter box depending on year of motorhome it will most likely have a sensor that measures the air flow, make sure they have plugged the wires back on, as they would have removed it when changing filters


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## Bigshug (Feb 27, 2021)

Maybe the timing belt has been fitted  slightly out of position


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2021)

Bigshug said:


> Maybe the timing belt has been fitted  slightly out of position


Hmmmm
Yeah, I HAVE had the timing belt done


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## Red Dwarf (Feb 27, 2021)

Could be any number of things. As mentioned above, split turbo pipe or maf sensor would be my favourites. A loose wire on a sensor?
Getting it back to the garage is the priority. I really hope it turns out to be a five minute fix and that you’re laying rubber up the road in no time!


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## bartman (Feb 27, 2021)

I think having paid that much you should get it straight back to the original garage. I'm just thinking that if they know another outfit has tinkered with it they might use that as a get-out.


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## mickymost (Feb 27, 2021)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Hmmmm
> Yeah, I HAVE had the timing belt done




Sounds like this to me


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2021)

bartman said:


> I think having paid that much you should get it straight back to the original garage. I'm just thinking that if they know another outfit has tinkered with it they might use that as a get-out.


Yeah that’s a good point 

Although I have to say, I’d like to believe that they would except Both my word & the word of another Garage....But Yep I Agree that if a Fault code does come up, I will Phone them there & then.


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## The laird (Feb 27, 2021)

I th8nk the timing is the area I'd be concerned about imho.hope they pegged the engine properly on removal of belt even a tooth out is enough.is it Smokey or lumpy at all on idle Paul?


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## The laird (Feb 27, 2021)

You've not said if any eml engine management lights are on the dash which if any of the suggested items other than the timing being out should illuminate the light


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## harrow (Feb 27, 2021)

*Another vote* for the  *timing belt* being a tooth or 2 out or a vacuum hose being left disconnected.  

Also just make sure there is not a mat stuck under the accelerator pedal.


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2021)

The laird said:


> You've not said if any eml engine management lights are on the dash which if any of the suggested items other than the timing being out should illuminate the light


Nope, No lights at all staying lit or Flashing on Dash  once Engine starts & Hand Break is released. Nope not Lumpy or uneven in sound when at idle either, Just that it’s ‘Get up & Go has Got up & Gone’ with limited Power & Speed


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## harrow (Feb 27, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> My own (non-mechanical!) thoughts are fuel starvation, but how and where?



Marie your right, not enough cake and donuts !


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## Tezza33 (Feb 27, 2021)

You only have to time the cam and crankshaft pulleys on a JTD engine, it doesn't matter where the injector pump pulley is set.
If the camshaft was out one or two teeth there would be an almighty clatter from the valves hitting the pistons so I doubt it is the timing belt, I would think they haven't replaced sensor wires, either way I would be calling the garage that did the work today


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## bartman (Feb 27, 2021)

Tezza33 said:


> You only have to time the cam and crankshaft pulleys on a JTD engine, it doesn't matter where the injector pump pulley is set.
> If the camshaft was out one or two teeth there would be an almighty clatter from the valves hitting the pistons so I doubt it is the timing belt, I would think they haven't replaced sensor wires, either way I would be calling the garage that did the work today


Yes, as a mere amateur bodger rather than a qualified mechanic, I was thinking that with a diesel engine having such a high compression ratio even one tooth out on the timing belt would be catastrophic - it's not a non-intereference engine.
I would discount a split in the turbo hose. When that happened on my old Mondeo a few years back it made enough noise to wake the whole neighbourhood. 
I agree that it's likely that a sensor is disconnected. It might be worth a quick look under the bonnet for anything obvious like that.
This won't be a JTD engine though will it Tezza? It's a Peugeot base. I know they are all from the Sevel factory, but I think the engines are different.


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## trixie88 (Feb 27, 2021)

i


Nesting Zombie said:


> Yeah that’s a good point
> 
> Although I have to say, I’d like to believe that they would except Both my word & the word of another Garage....But Yep I Agree that if a Fault code does come up, I will Phone them there & then.
> [/QUOTE
> ...


if it was running alright before it wen t into the garage....then it should have run ok when it came out of the garage...............something they have got wrong perhaps


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## Silver sprinter (Feb 27, 2021)

Hope it gets fixed soon, keep the troops informed


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## Tezza33 (Feb 27, 2021)

[QUOTE="bartman, post: 11"
This won't be a JTD engine though will it Tezza? It's a Peugeot base. I know they are all from the Sevel factory, but I think the engines are different.
[/QUOTE]
It will be the same principal though, HDI engines are common rail the same as fiat so the injector timing comes from the ECM, they would have locked the flywheel at TDC so the camshaft pulley is easy to set, then turned the engine by hand to check again after a few rotations so any mechanic worth his salt could do it


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## Wully (Feb 27, 2021)

Could be drawing air at the filter if not tightened properly. I would start at the diesel filter.


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2021)

My word there’s some really knowledgeable Guys on here. I just think it’s it’s a tired Hamster that’s fallen off it’s wheel


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## mariesnowgoose (Feb 27, 2021)

Tezza33 said:


> It will be the same principal though, HDI engines are common rail the same as fiat so the injector timing comes from the ECM, they would have locked the flywheel at TDC so the camshaft pulley is easy to set, then turned the engine by hand to check again after a few rotations so any mechanic worth his salt could do it



^^^^^^^

Wot 'e said


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## 1 Cup (Feb 27, 2021)

Has it got cc if so it also has a limiter. Turn that off. Job done


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2021)

1 Cup said:


> Has it got cc if so it also has a limiter. Turn that off. Job done


Hi ya 1 Cup,
Sorry but what does ‘CC’ mean....Cruise Control maybe?, 
No, it hasn’t


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## 1 Cup (Feb 27, 2021)

Yes cc


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2021)

No cc


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## The laird (Feb 27, 2021)

You've not got a carpet or mat ridden up u near the throttle pedal Paul or a mat?
stopping full throttle
can you get someone to push the throttle pedal to the floor and check the pump lever is fully open ,this is with the engine off!
they can be adjusted on the cable outer ,theres a wee clip that can be moved or maybe moved ?


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2021)

Do you know what, I TOTALLY understand exactly what you mean, And TBH it was the first thing I checked Just in case. But sadly NO I haven’t.
& the Mats I’ve fitted have been down a cpl of Months, The Lack of Power has only been a day or so.
So I’m guessing it’s a Cable or Loose connection that the Garage Guys Have disturb during the work, But I’m hoping that the Diagnostic thingy can tell me if that’s the case & if so, which one  
Will definitely have a look at the Pump lever though


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## trevskoda (Feb 27, 2021)

Looks like a bunch of yahoos that did not do a test run before handing back, get it back to there yard asap.


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## campervanannie (Feb 27, 2021)

Mine did this 2 years ago very sluggish up hill and not that much better on the flat and it was something called a waste gate that was clogged up the mechanic cleaned all the gunge off it and it run ok after that apparently it’s not something that the engine management system can detect but it stops the turbo working least I think that’s what he said.


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2021)

Thanks for that Annie work mentioning


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## Tezza33 (Feb 27, 2021)

Tezza33 said:


> You only have to time the cam and crankshaft pulleys on a JTD engine, it doesn't matter where the injector pump pulley is set.
> If the camshaft was out one or two teeth there would be an almighty clatter from the valves hitting the pistons so I doubt it is the timing belt, I would think they haven't replaced sensor wires, either way, I would be calling the garage that did the work today





Tezza33 said:


> It will be the same principal though, HDI engines are common rail the same as fiat so the injector timing comes from the ECM, they would have locked the flywheel at TDC so the camshaft pulley is easy to set, then turned the engine by hand to check again after a few rotations so any mechanic worth his salt could do it




Just read your posts on a difficult year and noticed that yours is a 1999 2.5 Peugeot so it doesn't have a common rail engine *so ignore the above,* I thought it was a later model and the common rail engine was introduced in 2002
Yours could be any of the following




Unfortunately, it will not have the OBD11 port either so a diagnostics code reader will not help, Fiat Ducato's of that year have a 3pin plug at the side of the air filter near the ECU



  it can be read using one of these


 and this 

 to link to a laptop,

Peugeot's are different though but your garage should still be able to help, I use the items shown for my 2002JTD

On yours, the mechanic would have used a timing kit that includes locking pins for the injector timing pulley, I still  don't think that they got it wrong and I still think it has something to do with the fuel filter, if it doesn't have a sensor it could be sucking air in
sorry for any confusion[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]


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## Silver sprinter (Feb 27, 2021)

This is what I like about this forum everybody  trying to help, keep it up


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## Tony Lee (Feb 28, 2021)

Sunday in NZ. 
Stay in the campground and ring them Monday morning and get them to send a mechanic out.


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## Tezza33 (Feb 28, 2021)

Tony Lee said:


> Sunday in NZ.
> Stay in the campground and ring them Monday morning and get them to send a mechanic out.


It does need to go back to the garage that did the work


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## Robmac (Feb 28, 2021)

Tezza33 said:


> It does need to go back to the garage that did the work



Without doubt Terry.

I wouldn't let anybody else anywhere near it until I had spoken to the garage. They would not be happy if another mechanic had been involved.


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## A Nutter (Feb 28, 2021)

My problem was the cruise control. Accidentally setting a limitation instead of putting the wipers on or something similar but I shouldn’t be allowed out on my own as not many people get stuck under trees or are permanently lost


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## Traveller (Feb 28, 2021)

You've got a sticking throttle body on the air intake, the unit needs the carbon build up removed from around the butterfly flange, throttle body located down the front of the engine. Difficut to get at you'll need to remove the front panels and if I remember correctly you loosen the radiator for access. Take unit off clean, test, put back or acquire a new throttle body (not cheap)


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 28, 2021)

Hey Tezza,
Brilliant Post, Thank you so much on the chassis plate it says about the HP of eng & it’s -




The middle one of the 3 Possibles you list


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## mariesnowgoose (Feb 28, 2021)

I’m going to check our engine later, that’s *really* useful to know.

Thanks @Tezza33 you’re a star!


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## The laird (Feb 28, 2021)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Do you know what, I TOTALLY understand exactly what you mean, And TBH it was the first thing I checked Just in case. But sadly NO I haven’t.
> & the Mats I’ve fitted have been down a cpl of Months, The Lack of Power has only been a day or so.
> So I’m guessing it’s a Cable or Loose connection that the Garage Guys Have disturb during the work, But I’m hoping that the Diagnostic thingy can tell me if that’s the case & if so, which one
> Will definitely have a look at the Pump lever though


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 28, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> I’m going to check our engine later, that’s *really* useful to know.
> 
> Thanks @Tezza33 you’re a star!


I’ve said many times,

I JUST LOVE THIS FORUM ! & the guys that make it what it is...


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## RSD7a (Feb 28, 2021)

st3v3 said:


> Pipe off the turbo?
> 
> But yea, back to the garage


That hapened to me. Exact same symptoms. 2 minute fix


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## Stanski (Feb 28, 2021)

Hi NZ,
suspect you are within travelling distance of the original garage so just to support some of the advice you have been given so far my recommendation would be - get it back to the garage who did the original service/MOT.  They should take responsibility.

*Faults*
I agree with Tezza also - I would not suspect Cambelt alignment.
I personally have never locked an engine to do a cambelt - just make markings on old belt and pulleys before replacing new one.  NOt everyone will agree with my method but have never failed me yet over the years and different vehicles done.

To have lost power as you describe suggests a connector is off or a turbo pipe disconnected. - do you hear a sucking type noise when engine is running?
I have a Peugeot Van that has a Lamda sensor / MAF sensor issue that I have yet to solve but when MAF connected the engine hunts at tickover and lacks power. Once MAF disconnected the engine thrives and pulls like a train - with improved MPG also.

Here are some recent stories

*STORY #1a*
From experience of only yesterday with Bro-in-Law  07 Toyota Avensis - with pipe disconnected from Rocker cover to the air intake no engine power.
He had only changed the fuel filter and so removed the air intake pipes to gain access.  We wanted to bleed fuel pump so started engine and left air intake pipes off.
No immediate acceleration, slowly the turbo picked up and engine power was poor.
As soon as rocker cover return pipe connected the turbo ran up as normal (engine is fuming so internal pressure is high at rocker cover - high mileage car).
*STORY #1b*
In bleeding pump we spilt diesel onto the throttle control lead (2 wires) to the fuel pump - car had no throttle.  We only changed this last week to try and cure poor starting in frosty cold weather.
Found that one wire was exposed at the plug thus diesel created a shorting/resistance path - after cleaning and drying of the connection throttle returned.

*STORY #2*
We have another avensis used to glean spares for the first above - original owner had similar experience to you but not quite the same - car was losing power but also lumpy/stuttering, he got it serviced, also paid over £500 for repair (seems they only changed an injector and cleaned the EGR valve).  He drove it 3 miles and engine would not produce power, so back it went and in a dispute with garage left the car with them.  After 6 months we got the car for spares and are stripping the engine down, only head to come off to see condition of pistons and headgasket.
In doing the stripping down found loads of soot on the air manifold intake and discovered loads of soot on the air intake of the turbo also. exhaust seems very clogged - still investigating.
Fuel pump and filter put on above Avensis to confirm working  - All OK.

*STORY #3 *(Honest - only last week)
Niece bought an 08 Galaxy last year to support growing family. Apparently at purchase the car had a power issue but she bought it anyway.  It worked with some issues for a year until Thursday previous week.  No real power and a funny noise from engine.  Her dad suspected a turbo issue and immediately went off to see a turbo specialist in Dundalk whom he had used on a previous occassion.  They had a quick inspection and asked for car to be returned next day so they could get more time.
Found that a turbo pipe has split - had to wait a day for part to be delivered - fitted and cured for less than a £100.


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 28, 2021)

Hey Stanski,
Thank you so much for your input, Fantastic Post, Yes I’m not that far from the Garage that done the work, I have to go to ATS tomorrow to get the Tracking done, So will be assessing the Engine to their & back. Then will pop back into the garage for them to take a peek


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## REC (Feb 28, 2021)

Good luck! Here's hoping it all mysteriously disappears and all is good again!


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 28, 2021)

REC said:


> Good luck! Here's hoping it all mysteriously disappears and all is good again!


Well, I /We will know in around 18hrs time


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## st3v3 (Feb 28, 2021)

Have you had a good nose around under the bonnet?


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 28, 2021)

I HAVE actually & can’t see anything obvious, But I’ve Poked, Prodded, Tapped, & Squeezed what connections I could find, Looked for any Loose or unconnected Pipes as this thread has suggested but, Nothing obvious.


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 28, 2021)

I wish it WAS that easy a fix


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## Tezza33 (Feb 28, 2021)

As @Stanski said you can change a cambelt without locking pins and if you are only changing the odd one certainly not worth buying but all garages will have them, drill bits of the right size will lock a pulley, marking the cam belt is also useful but it is easier with the right kit, certainly better than knackering a customers engine.
Lots of interesting and knowledgeable comments and advice any one of them could be right, my thought is that it was OK when it went in for the service so it is something that they have either done wrong or they have fitted a faulty service part (it does happen but not so much these days)


How are you both doing Stan?,


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## Dee (Mar 1, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> OK, so not everyone reads all the threads, and one of our full time members (NZ) is having a *terrible time* with their van.
> 
> He's just paid a fortune - and I mean a fortune! - for a massive service, MOT etc.
> 
> ...


We had a loss of power and found the turbo air pipe was off. Hope you get it fixed foc


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## patsyanne (Mar 2, 2021)

Was the van serviced because this problem existed? We had a similar problem on our van. When pulling away the engine was flat, no power.  after a lot of investigation it was found that the two chambers in the inlet manifold had corroded through.  I had this happen on a car a long time before and it took the garage a time to find that too.


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## mariesnowgoose (Mar 2, 2021)

patsyanne said:


> Was the van serviced because this problem existed? We had a similar problem on our van. When pulling away the engine was flat, no power.  after a lot of investigation it was found that the two chambers in the inlet manifold had corroded through.  I had this happen on a car a long time before and it took the garage a time to find that too.



No, Patsy, good thinking, but the engine was pulling fine *before* it went in for its service, so this looks like something the garage has possibly done during the service?


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## Nesting Zombie (Mar 2, 2021)

Hi ya Patsyanne,
Yeah as MSG says, All was good before,

Now I’ve just dropped it back to the Garage & in Getting it here early hours of this morning it DID perform a little better, So maybe like me it just prefers Shuffling around at night !.
Still no or rather VERY little power on acceleration but DID get it up to 50MPH in 4th gear, Then went into 5th & it Maintained it & even climbing to 55MPH on FLAT dual carriageway, But Dropping Back quickly on a small incline of a hill. So a little hope that it maybe just might want a Bloody good Thrashing in a John Cleese style.
Now just to mention to those that don’t know, Boxy is a 4800GVW vehicle currently carrying 4550 ish KG on an 1999 2.5TD Engine so no race car, but it ALWAYS had pull at lower speed up hill when needed. & Top End on a run was very happy at 60/65MPH on a Motorway.
I’ve yet to take it on a motorway since the service


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## Nesting Zombie (Mar 2, 2021)

Thanks Guys for your input, Really appreciate all the comments.
I’m adding updates to this Marathon Saga n the Members area thread


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## campervanannie (Mar 2, 2021)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Thanks Guys for your input, Really appreciate all the comments.
> I’m adding updates to this Marathon Saga n the Members area thread


When do we get the update I can’t sleep until we get the final outcome.


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## Phantom (Mar 2, 2021)

It sounds like the turbo isn't working.


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## REC (Mar 3, 2021)

REC said:


> Good luck! Here's hoping it all mysteriously disappears and all is good again!


Obviously good wishes worked!!


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## Nesting Zombie (Mar 3, 2021)

Never underestimate the power of Positive Thinking & Support !.


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## Stanski (Mar 3, 2021)

Tezza33 said:


> As @Stanski  How are you both doing Stan?,


Hi, We are both well although suffering the lockdown by repairing family cars and tractors in the main.  Had a car transporter wiring to sort for a bit of pin money, and today have just passed on a Meriva to the undertakers for a small return better than a metal scrapyard.
Planning to get a ferry back to UK within the next week.  As soon as we get back first task is to get MH sorted for MOT.
Hope you have had a positive Covid experience.
Regards


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## Letmeout (Mar 5, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> OK, so not everyone reads all the threads, and one of our full time members (NZ) is having a *terrible time* with their van.
> 
> He's just paid a fortune - and I mean a fortune! - for a massive service, MOT etc.
> 
> ...


Not sure if this helps we had a Peugeot like this and the oil went low check your oil level


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## clewless (Mar 9, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> OK, so not everyone reads all the threads, and one of our full time members (NZ) is having a *terrible time* with their van.
> 
> He's just paid a fortune - and I mean a fortune! - for a massive service, MOT etc.
> 
> ...


Had a similar problem with my VW Transporter. Local garage couldn't sort it. Eventually turned out to be the turbo charger radiator fractured.


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## Phantom (Mar 9, 2021)

So is it fixed now? C'mon NZ, you can't leave us all in suspense of the conclusion!


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## trixie88 (Mar 9, 2021)

..............


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## Nesting Zombie (Mar 9, 2021)

Phantom said:


> So is it fixed now? C'mon NZ, you can't leave us all in suspense of the conclusion!


Hey Phantom,
Have a look at the last few pages of -


			https://wildcamping.co.uk/threads/my-notes-on-a-tough-year.85093/post-1158746


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