# Leisure Battery



## fiona b (Oct 11, 2020)

Hi
We have a Bannerbull leisure battery and about to have to replace it for the 3rd time (van is 9 years old).
Majority of our camping is not on sites and never use EHU.
Any suggestions as to what is best battery to replace it with for longer life.
Thanks
Fiona


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## Deleted member 56601 (Oct 11, 2020)

Trojans


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## mjvw (Oct 11, 2020)

Why not have a chat with Alpha-Batteries And don't forget the discount through being a member of WC.


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## fiona b (Oct 11, 2020)

Thanks to both. Also meant to ask if lithium batteries are worth the extra cost?


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## mjvw (Oct 11, 2020)

Cant really comment on Lithium, someone will be along to help, I do however feel they are a  bit pricey.


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## Mike24 (Oct 11, 2020)

Agm battery's I would recommend 
I have 2 110amp agm but I do have solar topping up the charge all the time so I never have to plug into mains supply


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## trevskoda (Oct 11, 2020)

Bosch/varta silver power frame stop start batteries, they will hold for 5 years before doing what normal batteries do from day one, there was a test done and they came out tops in the lead acid group.


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## Tookey (Oct 11, 2020)

For the new range of lithium coming out soon (post 65) on 'motorhome builder forum' on Wildebus 'not a self builder but a tweaker' (sorry unsure how to link) he has linked each new battery. With regards to lithium I cant comment on leisure batteries but I know that I will only get lithium drill batteries in the future now I have used them


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## Tookey (Oct 11, 2020)

this is the description on the top one that I randomly choose out of the 4. If you have the funds then I suspect its the way forward, (I am a novice)


LINC BASE series is the Lithium battery that can be widely used for deep cycle applications with more power and less weight than traditional Lead acid batteries as well as below features.

● Long cycle life: 10 times of Lead acid battery’s cycle life - 2000 cycles at 100% Depth of Discharge - 5000 Cycles at 50%

● More usable capacity: up to 100% usable energy

● Fast charging: 10 times faster than Lead acid battery

● Easy installation: drop-in replacement for Lead acid battery

● Low self-discharge: ＜2% per month

● Compatible with AGM battery chargers

● Increase flexibility: up to 4 batteries connected in series & up to 2 in Parallel

● Built-in BMS ensuring battery safety and efficient operation


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## mark61 (Oct 11, 2020)

My knowledge on the subject is very limited, but Banner are a well respected battery.
I think I'd be looking into battery use/consumption etc, before thinking that a different make of battery will perform any better. 
Lithium batteries excluded.


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## SquirrellCook (Oct 11, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Bosch/varta silver power frame stop start batteries, they will hold for 5 years before doing what normal batteries do from day one, there was a test done and they came out tops in the lead acid group.


3 sets all rubbish.  They don't hold their volts.  That said I have the original set still.  They will start an engine, but rubbish for leisure.


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## trevskoda (Oct 11, 2020)

How many l/acid batteries could you buy compared to a lithium.  and then all the electric chargers/solar etc have to be changed, dont think the cost adds up to be honest.


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## number14 (Oct 11, 2020)

Banners are very thirsty on electrolyte. My latest van bought recently at 2 yrs old had 2x 100Ah Banners fitted as original equipment. Having had prior experience of Banners, I checked the levels soon after taking delivery and had to add a total of 3 litres de-ionised water. The manufacturers handbook did say to check levels frequently but, I suspect, the previous owner had never done so. I advised the dealer (normally of good repute) in writing of my displeasure for not having done PDI properly.
Despite this the batteries do seem to be holding up but I expect to change them next spring.

(BTW the rest of the van is fine and I am highly delighted with it.)


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## mark61 (Oct 11, 2020)

SquirrellCook said:


> 3 sets all rubbish.  They don't hold there volts.  That said I have the original set still.  They will start an engine, but rubbish for leisure.



Bosch working fine in my van as leisure batteries.
Smart alternator was knocking the life out of the Varta vehicle battery though, until I found an easy way to bypass it, DRL's are a waste of time now though.


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## trevskoda (Oct 11, 2020)

mark61 said:


> Bosch working fine in my van as leisure batteries.
> Smart alternator was knocking the life out of the Varta vehicle battery though, until I found an easy way to bypass it, DRL's are a waste of time now though.


When my batts die i will also be fitting bosch/varta, i will never be fitting fancy batteries at £800 a pop, i may not live to get the use out of.


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## fiona b (Oct 11, 2020)

Some good suggestions, thanks  We also have 100W solar panel


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## mark61 (Oct 11, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> When my batts die i will also be fitting bosch/varta, i will never be fitting fancy batteries at £800 a pop, i may not live to get the use out of.


 Come on Trev, don't be such a meanie. Kids will be using your truck for many many years to come.   

I'm going to go lithium when these batteries die, or on next van. Weight & space saving is not to be sniffed at on a 3.5T.


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## jagmanx (Oct 11, 2020)

Now that  a single lithium @£600 (and falling) is available..
As DelBoy (not Trevboy) would say "You know it makes sense"
For many a single Lithium with its "full usabitlity of Amp-hours" will be perfect .
OK some hassle and cost in other items but


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## RAW (Oct 11, 2020)

I have an Alpha, pretty good also Bosch Powerframe are not too bad in the AGM / Dry Cell type
If you can afford it go Lithium Technology though


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## wildebus (Oct 11, 2020)

well, this is my take on the subject ...

Banner are budget batteries and getting 3 years out of one is actually not that bad in reality.  But you can do a lot better!
Some folk rave about the Powerframe Varta/Bosch Batteries.  Good for them   not for me 

What options are there?
Lithium is obviously the most advanced choice and there are numerous advantages, of which Philip has touched on.  But you do need to fork out for the initial investment and also likely add some advanced battery management/monitoring  (a basic voltmeter won't cut it with Lithium) and maybe update your charging system.
If you go Lithium, I have not seen a better value product than the Poweroad Lithiums that Alpha-Batteries will have in before Christmas.  You can get cheaper by building your own of course, but if someone was into that, they wouldn't be asking a "what battery" type question in the first place, so lets forget the DIY option!

An option which I personally think is very good is the one I have in my Campervan (and got from Geeky Philip as it happens) ... 
Lead-Carbon.   A variation on the Lead Acid AGM batteries and while they don't have the same life cycle count as Lithiums, they could well outlive many of us in normal use (Lead Carbon batteries tend to have a cycle count in the thousands).
Using Alpha Batteries as a example  (I tend to look at their range as they manage to have the best prices around), they have a new Lead Carbon battery arriving soon  - https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/1...ad-carbon-ultra-deep-cycle-battery-dc12-100c/
What I like about this battery is that you could use this genuinely as a drop-in replacement for a standard battery without the need for extra monitoring.  It also has a lower charge voltage requirement than typical AGM batteries so may allow you to fit it without the absolute need to upgrade your chargers.


If you are tight on space and weight, Lithium is the way to go, but you do need to make sure it is installed right with suitable associated periphrals (chargers, monitors)
If you are ok for space and weight, I would be very tempted by the Lead-Carbons as - IMO - as a DIY install, they offer the least hassle at a significantly better initial cost than Lithiums.

My own plans are to install Lithiums in my Motorhome, but that is because of both space and weight limits.  If I had the spare payload (like in my Camper), I would stay Lead-Carbon and save the money (even though I have chargers and monitoring suitable for either).


Final note.  The best way to get the best service life from your batteries is to install more than you need!  
If you think a 100Ah Battery will suit you fine, then installing 2 x 100Ah Batteries will stress the batteries a lot less, and they will last probably more than twice as long and also give you the extra power reserve on the occasions you could use it.


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## QFour (Oct 11, 2020)

I am a convert so go with Lithium. Just bought a 120AH one that weighs 15Kg the battery that was in was 80AH Gel weight 28KG . To get the same output I would need 3 Gel batteries weighing 84KG to give a usable 120AH


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## trevskoda (Oct 11, 2020)

wildebus said:


> well, this is my take on the subject ...
> 
> Banner are budget batteries and getting 3 years out of one is actually not that bad in reality.  But you can do a lot better!
> Some folk rave about the Powerframe Varta/Bosch Batteries.  Good for them  not for me
> ...


All down to price and if worth the hastle, mine work very well for what i require at a fraction of above.


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## mistericeman (Oct 11, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> All down to price and if worth the hastle, mine work very well for what i require at a fraction of above.



Same here.... The 3 x 100ah explorers that I fitted to the transit 4/5 years back are still serving in the Moho.... 
Starting to lose a bit of capacity now so replacement won't be far off... 
BUT they were used with our 3000w inverter to power microwave/toaster/slow cooker/kettle so have been used well. 

I can't say that I've had bad value from them to be honest... 

Lithium sounds great (I'm wholly lithium powered cordless work tools wise and torch wise including the ones I use for exploring deep into old mines etc) 
BUT needs to come down in price considerably  before I'll be buying lithium for the Moho.


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## wildebus (Oct 11, 2020)

I dropped a Varta battery into my Motorhome earlier last week.
Can't wait to take that out again in the next week or so hopefully so I can actually use battery power for more than one day


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## winks (Oct 11, 2020)

This looks like a good deal if you can afford the weight of them.









						Leoch Superior Lead Carbon AGM 130Ah Battery (SLCA-12130 DT)
					

The Leoch Superior Lead Carbon AGM 130Ah Battery (SLCA-12130 DT) is from the Leoch Batteries range of Industrial Batteries. We aim to sell all of our products at the LOWEST PRICES in the UK and offer nationwide next day delivery.




					www.tayna.co.uk
				




Cheers

H


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## trevskoda (Oct 11, 2020)

wildebus said:


> I dropped a Varta battery into my Motorhome earlier last week.
> Can't wait to take that out again in the next week or so hopefully so I can actually use battery power for more than one day


True you would want 2 0r 3 at the rate you go at.   bet you van is like blackpool on a sat night.


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## Admin (Oct 11, 2020)

winks said:


> This looks like a good deal if you can afford the weight of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These are good batteries.

£200.36 with delivery from Tayna.
£194.98 with delivery from Alpha Batteries.

Only £180.36 with our discount code!









						12V 115AH Leoch AGM Lead Carbon Deep Cycle Battery (LDC12-115-G31-DT) (SLCA-12130 DT) - Alpha Batteries
					

12V 115AH Leoch AGM Lead Carbon deep cycle battery – LDC12-115-G31DT What Makes Lead Carbon AGM  Superior to other AGMs? […]




					www.alpha-batteries.co.uk


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## Harryw (Oct 11, 2020)

Anyone running a pair 6v in series like these, seems like nice reserve of power?








						6V Leoch 210AH AGM Lead Carbon AGM Deep Cycle Battery (LDC6-210-GC2) (SLCA-6225-DT) (T105) - Alpha Batteries
					

6V 230AH Leoch Superior AGM Lead Carbon deep cycle battery SLCA 6225 DT A superior modern upgrade to older 6v […]




					www.alpha-batteries.co.uk


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## fiona b (Oct 12, 2020)

Thanks to all for advice. We were going to go for lithium but in the end settled on a lead carbon battery with 135ah and 500 cycles (194 before discount) from alpha. Our campervan is 9 years old and sassuming she keeps going, likely we may change in ca 10 years when we retire, although will be hard thing to do, so lithium didn't make sense. Thanks again


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## wildebus (Oct 12, 2020)

fiona b said:


> Thanks to all for advice. We were going to go for lithium but in the end settled on a lead carbon battery with 135ah and 500 cycles (194 before discount) from alpha. Our campervan is 9 years old and sassuming she keeps going, likely we may change in ca 10 years when we retire, although will be hard thing to do, so lithium didn't make sense. Thanks again


That Leoch battery looks very good.  Excellent choice


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## Robmac (Oct 12, 2020)

Harryw said:


> Anyone running a pair 6v in series like these, seems like nice reserve of power?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I run a pair of 6V Trojan T125's and to be honest that is more than adequate for me.


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## mistericeman (Oct 12, 2020)

Harryw said:


> Anyone running a pair 6v in series like these, seems like nice reserve of power?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What would those give you in terms of safe use able power when paired to 12v?


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## wildebus (Oct 12, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> What would those give you in terms of safe use able power when paired to 12v?


For a new install, bit pointless over a 12V single battery.  But as a more modern replacement for the elderly Trojan T105s, could be very convenient


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## mistericeman (Oct 12, 2020)

wildebus said:


> For a new install, bit pointless over a 12V single battery.  But as a more modern replacement for the elderly Trojan T105s, could be very convenient



So only getting 230ah when paired in 12v mode... NOT 460ah?


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## Ferris day off (Oct 13, 2020)

Mike24 said:


> Agm battery's I would recommend
> I have 2 110amp agm but I do have solar topping up the charge all the time so I never have to plug into mains supply


Hi. Just wondering how this works in practice as I'm thinking of getting a solar panel to fit on the dashboard. Do you connect to your cigar lighter which would charge the SB and then trickle charge the LB when it's fully charged, or do use crocodile clips straight to LB? TIA.


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## Deleted member 56601 (Oct 13, 2020)

Ferris day off said:


> Hi. Just wondering how this works in practice as I'm thinking of getting a solar panel to fit on the dashboard. Do you connect to your cigar lighter which would charge the SB and then trickle charge the LB when it's fully charged, or do use crocodile clips straight to LB? TIA.


A lot of cigar lighters are only active when the ignition is on


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## Deleted member 80299 (Oct 13, 2020)

I use 4 x Numax XDT30MF class A Batteries, 2000 recharge cycles and 5years warranty


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## bartman (Oct 13, 2020)

I was unaware of the lead carbon type of battery, looks very interesting.
 I've had a couple of Banner 90AH for about 3 years, they've been OK but as has been said they do require the electrolyte level to be monitored and topped up, they're not a sealed battery. I'm guessing that they are nearing the end of their useful life as the multi stage smart charger which I fitted at the beginning of the year always goes to the "recondition" phase when hooked up, before eventually going to "float". The high voltage of the "recondition" stage makes the batteries gas quite a lot (they are well vented!), resulting in even more frequent topping up.

Having read that the lead carbon batteries charge 8 times faster than normal lead acid batteries, I'm wondering whether I could manage with just the one 130AH lead carbon battery with my 150 watt solar panel to keep it topped up. Would the faster charging time compensate to an extent for the lower light levels at this time of year?


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## winks (Oct 13, 2020)

Ferris day off said:


> Hi. Just wondering how this works in practice as I'm thinking of getting a solar panel to fit on the dashboard. Do you connect to your cigar lighter which would charge the SB and then trickle charge the LB when it's fully charged, or do use crocodile clips straight to LB? TIA.




I have 230W of solar feeding 230Ah of lead cid batteries via an epever MPPT solar controller. With the prospect of long lay ups this year I have fitted a  Victron Cyrix battery combiner which looks after the starter battery by linking it with the leisure battery through a controlled relay. So far it seems to be working fine, although if I was setting up from scratch I would probably have gone for something like the Votronic solar controller which has an out put to maintain the starter battery. 

Cheers

H


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## SquirrellCook (Oct 13, 2020)

bartman said:


> I was unaware of the lead carbon type of battery, looks very interesting.
> I've had a couple of Banner 90AH for about 3 years, they've been OK but as has been said they do require the electrolyte level to be monitored and topped up, they're not a sealed battery. I'm guessing that they are nearing the end of their useful life as the multi stage smart charger which I fitted at the beginning of the year always goes to the "recondition" phase when hooked up, before eventually going to "float". The high voltage of the "recondition" stage makes the batteries gas quite a lot (they are well vented!), resulting in even more frequent topping up.
> 
> Having read that the lead carbon batteries charge 8 times faster than normal lead acid batteries, I'm wondering whether I could manage with just the one 130AH lead carbon battery with my 150 watt solar panel to keep it topped up. Would the faster charging time compensate to an extent for the lower light levels at this time of year?


Power going into a battery or bank is power going in.  Put a pint in a gallon container and put a pint in a five gallon container and you have still only put a pint in.
Remember with a lead acid battery, that last 10% of capacity is hard work to put in.


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## trevskoda (Oct 13, 2020)

Did someone mention pints, ta  
Any way its all down to what you want and use,if heavy then go expensive, light use as in lights and maybe a tad of tv then standard batteries are ok.


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## wildebus (Oct 13, 2020)

SquirrellCook said:


> Power going into a battery or bank is power going in.  Put a pint in a gallon container and put a pint in a five gallon container and you have still only put a pint in.
> Remember with a lead acid battery, that last 10% of capacity is hard work to put in.


And also remember that at least 5% of the pint going in is 'spilt' (charger losses), and another 10% or so is wasted (charging losses aka "Coulombic efficiency").  so for every 100W your Solar Panel may be harvesting, the battery charge will only  increase by 85W maximum.



bartman said:


> I was unaware of the lead carbon type of battery, looks very interesting.
> I've had a couple of Banner 90AH for about 3 years, they've been OK but as has been said they do require the electrolyte level to be monitored and topped up, they're not a sealed battery. I'm guessing that they are nearing the end of their useful life as the multi stage smart charger which I fitted at the beginning of the year always goes to the "recondition" phase when hooked up, before eventually going to "float". The high voltage of the "recondition" stage makes the batteries gas quite a lot (they are well vented!), resulting in even more frequent topping up.
> 
> Having read that the lead carbon batteries charge 8 times faster than normal lead acid batteries, I'm wondering whether I could manage with just the one 130AH lead carbon battery with my 150 watt solar panel to keep it topped up. Would the faster charging time compensate to an extent for the lower light levels at this time of year?


Where did you read that Lead Carbon charge 8 times faster?   Yes, they will charge up usefully and notably faster, but not 8 times faster.  With a 130Ah Battery for example, a 150W Panel will not charge a Lead Carbon any faster then a Wet Cell anyway.  The PV Panel is the bottleneck there, not the battery.

I would say a 130Ah Lead Carbon Battery would give better performance than a pair of 90Ah Banners.  With the Banners you would need to be wary of getting more than 90Ah out of them as their charge cycle count would start to drop dramatically.   With the 130Ah Lead Carbon, you could use 80% of that capacity (so 106Ah) time after time and still have a charge cycle count 2 or 3 times more than the Banners when taking just 50% out of them.


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## bartman (Oct 13, 2020)

Thanks Wildebus, I know you shouldn't take everything found on an internet search as gospel, but I found that said on a couple of sites - this is one of them, I hope I've understood it correctly http://www.gslithiumbattery.com/news/advantages-and-disadvantages-of-lead-carbon-ba-16165986.html

What do you reckon about the charger going into "recondition" every time? According to the instructions, it should only do that if the "battery test" phase fails after the "absorption" phase is completed.

Just looked at the slightly smaller Ritar 100AH battery on the Alpha site, and they say there " Lead Carbon AGM batteries are true  "deep cycle" and can completely re-charge from 4 to 10 times faster than regular lead acid batteries"
Having quoted that I fully acept that you know your stuff Wildebus, and I'm sure that what you say about the PV panel is correct. They don't say in what scenario that sort of charge rate could be achieved!


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## wildebus (Oct 13, 2020)

bartman said:


> Thanks Wildebus, I know you shouldn't take everything found on an internet search as gospel, but I found that said on a couple of sites - this is one of them, I hope I've understood it correctly http://www.gslithiumbattery.com/news/advantages-and-disadvantages-of-lead-carbon-ba-16165986.html
> 
> What do you reckon about the charger going into "recondition" every time? According to the instructions, it should only do that if the "battery test" phase fails after the "absorption" phase is completed.
> 
> ...


Shouldn't go into Recondition as a matter of course.  Maybe once a month absolute tops I would want unless you are trying to fix a bad battery.

The Max charge current for that Ritar Battery is 30A.  If you look at a site like the "Caravan" one people like to link to, I think there is a comment on there regarding 'normal' batteries should be charged no faster than C10 or even C20 (e.g, 10A or 5A for a 100Ah Battery).  I think that is a little too cautious, but it is a popular idea, and would tie up with a 6x difference. 
If you had a 30A B2B, you could be pushing in 30A into the Lead Carbon battery for much longer than a basic battery could take it, so without a doubt would be an improvement on charging.

Where the Lead Carbons really come into their own within the "Lead Acid Battery" World is the much better charge cycles and amount you can pull out of them.  That Ritar battery you mentioned (https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/1...ad-carbon-ultra-deep-cycle-battery-dc12-100c/) is especially good in that respect.  You can go down to a 90% DoD (so pretty well close to Lithium and much better than a Wet Cell Lead Acid battery) - and even taking 90% out day after day, it is still rated at around 1800 cycles - that is 9 times better than a Banner Bull Wet cell going down to 50% DoD (just 200 cycles).


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## colinm (Oct 13, 2020)

From what I see of the specs, and your solar, it will only charge at the same rate as your Banners (if they are in good nick), you could double your solar panels and still the charging would be similar, to get the Carbon-Lead charging at just four times you would need to then quadruple your panels (8 times what you have now), but as wildebus points out, if you are using other charging such as B2B you would start to see a improvement.


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## Ferris day off (Oct 13, 2020)

Edina said:


> A lot of cigar lighters are only active when the ignition is on


Mine's active all the time. If such is the case will it be charging SB first and then after fully charging the SB trickle charging the LB?


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## wildebus (Oct 13, 2020)

Ferris day off said:


> Mine's active all the time.


Seems to be a common thing that on cars they are ignition controlled, and on vans always powered?  (although having said that, my Ducato one is ignition controlled).



Ferris day off said:


> If such is the case will it be charging SB first and then after fully charging the SB trickle charging the LB?


Common misconception.
If you have a voltage controlled relay or B2B, then as soon as the voltage reaches the set "on" threshold, the device turns on and charging of the Leisure Battery commences.  It is not a matter of the Starter getting fully charged first.  
What IS true to say is that if the Starter battery is low, then that will be charged initially and for longer without the Leisure battery getting any charge as the voltage will be too low to turn the Split-Charge device on.


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## mistericeman (Oct 13, 2020)

What do we think of these.... 









						019 Nordstar EFB Carbon Stop Start Car Battery - Alpha Batteries
					

START-STOP Carbon EFB batteries are intended primarily for vehicles with the START-STOP system. They are also ideal for ordinary cars as […]




					www.alpha-batteries.co.uk
				




Not listed as leisure batteries BUT must take some punishment as a stop start battery?


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## SquirrellCook (Oct 13, 2020)

The demands on a leisure battery are not what they were.  "Fred can't live without his microwave, he's sure his sausage will explode one day"
For people with these excessive domestic demands a traction battery might be better.  Leisure batteries were originally for keeping your glow worms glowing for hours on end.


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## trevskoda (Oct 13, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> What do we think of these....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does the bosch/varta not have a 5 year warrenty


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## wildebus (Oct 13, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> What do we think of these....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the Lead-Calcium battery version of the same battery in my VW LT (went for that version as has 5 year warranty rather than 3 year of the Nordstar Carbon).  Seems excellent as a starter. 
The Lead Carbon batteries being discussed are a version of AGM Batteries
The EFB Carbon is a version of Wet Cell Batteries. probably better than a Wet Battery as a Leisure, but not as good as a AGM (and I would think should be vented if inside and not in a vehicle battery box).


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## fiona b (Oct 13, 2020)

fiona b said:


> Thanks to all for advice. We were going to go for lithium but in the end settled on a lead carbon battery with 135ah and 500 cycles (194 before discount) from alpha. Our campervan is 9 years old and sassuming she keeps going, likely we may change in ca 10 years when we retire, although will be hard thing to do, so lithium didn't make sense. Thanks again


Just spotted typo, should be 1500 cycles not 500! With regard to other replies all we use the battery for is Webasto heating/hot water, lighting, fridge and gadget charging.


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## davep10000 (Oct 14, 2020)

Very interesting thread, thanks to all the contributors.
I have 2 off 100 Ah Banner batteries, less than a year old, and they dont work as I need them to.
I have a 50A B2B which initially charges them at 40Amps but very soon drops to a paltry 12A, so a journey of 2 hours only puts in about 20 % capacity ( my solar doesnt add much here in winter in  Scotland).
Very interested in a couple of lead carbons now, so will follow others experiences with interest, especially as I need good capacity at temps below 0C.


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## wildebus (Oct 14, 2020)

davep10000 said:


> Very interesting thread, thanks to all the contributors.
> I have 2 off 100 Ah Banner batteries, less than a year old, and they dont work as I need them to.
> I have a 50A B2B which initially charges them at 40Amps but very soon drops to a paltry 12A, so a journey of 2 hours only puts in about 20 % capacity ( my solar doesnt add much here in winter in  Scotland).
> Very interested in a couple of lead carbons now, so will follow others experiences with interest, especially as I need good capacity at temps below 0C.


What physical size are your Banner Batteries?  The Leoch Lead Carbon batteries mentioned are very good and would likely fit in their place.  The new Ritar batteries are a similar capacity but a higher price - but have a very high charge cycle count and projected service life (15 years) which makes up for that.
I will be getting a couple of the 100Ah Ritar Batteries next week when they come into stock


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## davep10000 (Oct 14, 2020)

wildebus said:


> What physical size are your Banner Batteries?  The Leoch Lead Carbon batteries mentioned are very good and would likely fit in their place.  The new Ritar batteries are a similar capacity but a higher price - but have a very high charge cycle count and projected service life (15 years) which makes up for that.
> I will be getting a couple of the 100Ah Ritar Batteries next week when they come into stock


The ritar batteries are 30mm higher than the banners but look far superior for the £200 (-discount) price tag. Please Let us know how you get on!


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## mistericeman (Oct 16, 2020)

These don't look bad value for AGM either... 









						12v 100AH Platinum AGM Leisure Battery (AGMLB6110L) NCC Class A - Alpha Batteries
					

Looking for a top quality leisure battery for frequent use off hookup? Look no further. This Platinum 100ah AGM battery […]




					www.alpha-batteries.co.uk


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## davidm (Oct 18, 2020)

fiona b said:


> Hi
> We have a Bannerbull leisure battery and about to have to replace it for the 3rd time (van is 9 years old).
> Majority of our camping is not on sites and never use EHU.
> Any suggestions as to what is best battery to replace it with for longer life.
> ...


I have just changed my lead acid batteries to lithium they will last longer and hold full voltage for a longer time. In the long run will work out economical.


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## Technispark (Oct 18, 2020)

fiona b said:


> Hi
> We have a Bannerbull leisure battery and about to have to replace it for the 3rd time (van is 9 years old).
> Majority of our camping is not on sites and never use EHU.
> Any suggestions as to what is best battery to replace it with for longer life.
> ...


You have done well getting 3 years out of your batteries.  I use Euro car parts house brand and I am pressed to get 2 seasons use out of them before they hold so little charge as to be useless.


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## 2cv (Oct 18, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> These don't look bad value for AGM either...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can recommend Platinum. I have just one, which failed after close to 3 years of mainly off grid use. They have a 3 year warranty and I received a full refund.


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## mistericeman (Oct 18, 2020)

Technispark said:


> You have done well getting 3 years out of your batteries.  I use Euro car parts house brand and I am pressed to get 2 seasons use out of them before they hold so little charge as to be useless.



I've had close on 5 years out of my previous flooded lead acid Xplorers... 

And they have had some hammer (all cooking was electric via a 3000w inverter) Though I have been careful on keeping them in good order and being wary of over discharge.


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## Deleted member 42369 (Oct 18, 2020)

I am keeping my head down and fingers crossed - 4 years so far on 4 x 110 batteries from advanced batteries, stockport - 2 on the transit side - 1 start, 1 "house", 2 on the leisure side. perhaps Wildebus comment - get more than you need applies !


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## wildebus (Oct 18, 2020)

Mick Jordan said:


> I am keeping my head down and fingers crossed - 4 years so far on 4 x 110 batteries from advanced batteries, stockport - 2 on the transit side - 1 start, 1 "house", 2 on the leisure side. perhaps Wildebus comment - *get more than you need applies* !


It really is the case with batteries that that less you stress them the longer they last.  And the best way to reduce stress is to fit extra if you have the space to do so 
In my own case, because I have changed where I am fitting my new batteries, I have evaluated the space available and am adding an extra one to the install - so getting 3 instead of 2.  And with that 50% extra, I fully expect that this battery bank will last at least the full battery design life of 15 years.

To do some maths, if I were to add 50% more capacity, but use the same amount of battery Ahs as before, I would get an additional 1,000 Charge Cycles if I was previously taking it down to 80% DOD.  
If I were just taking to down to 50% DOD before (100AH from a 200Ah bank), the extra battery in the bank would improve the Charge Cycles count from 3,000 to about 5,000 as the DOD you go down to drops to around 33%





And this is just in "normal" use.  Factor in High Current inverter use and the difference between 2-Battery Banks and 3-Battery Banks becomes much bigger.

You are in the realm of Lithium Batteries now in terms of usable life _for you_ (unless you intend to bequeath your batteries to your grandchildren in your will) for a lower price than a single LiFePO4 battery.  
And bear in mind that a 100Ah Lithium for around £650 will deliver a maximum of 100Ah.  Your 300Ah Lead Carbon Bank costing £600 will also deliver 100Ah 5,000 times, but will also, if you had the need if "caught short", the ability to deliver 250Ah+ without damaging the batteries  (you _will _start to reduce the charge cycle count if you do this regulalry, but on occasion, no problems)

Of course, Lithium has other advantages (weight, space, charge speed, etc) and those may well be the deciding factor, depending on individual circumstances.


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## trevskoda (Oct 18, 2020)

My standard truck batts are now coming 8 years old and still working well, cost £45 each for 90ah.


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## Nabsim (Oct 18, 2020)

3 of those battery’s are going to be getting on for 90kg Dave. Significant lump of payload for a lot of folks especially if =<3.5t


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## TR5 (Oct 18, 2020)

The biggest killer of all lead acid batteries is, unless they are fully maintenance free, is the lack of topping up.
I've now gone for Yuasa batteries, which are fully maintenance free.

I must say my Banner batteries last 5 years, and only one failed. I keep the other in my garage at home as a spare, and charge once every 3 months. Last time it was still on 12.67v before re-charging.


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## wildebus (Oct 18, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> 3 of those battery’s are going to be getting on for 90kg Dave. Significant lump of payload for a lot of folks especially if =<3.5t


that is correct and why Lithium is for many the better option. 
I was going to go Lithium for that reason but decided that the extra 60Kg of weight carried (3 x Lead Carbon compared to 2 x Lithium) was worth the cost saving (and the money saved would pay for a Weight Uprate of an extra 290Kg over what the heavier batteries take up  )


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## Harrytherid (Oct 19, 2020)

I recently had a car battery (in car) fail after less than three years.  Called out the RAC as dealer said I had to have their report before they could replace the battery under warranty.  RAC chap did his tests and pronounced the battery failed, slated AGM and replaced with nice new Varta which he reckoned far better.  So all this has left my mind boggling which is not difficult nowadays. My Banners (in motorhome) are difficult to get at so will probably be out of electrolyte.  One is easier than the other so I shall check that first and if bad will take the seat out to get at the other.  Is there no end to it?


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## Debroos (Oct 19, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> My standard truck batts are now coming 8 years old and still working well, cost £45 each for 90ah.


Could we fit one of these into our t5 as our leisure battery? We are totally ignorant on all this and need a new one...our usage is low, mostly lights and recharging stuff when driving...


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## wildebus (Oct 19, 2020)

Harrytherid said:


> I recently had a car battery (in car) fail after less than three years.  Called out the RAC as dealer said I had to have their report before they could replace the battery under warranty.  RAC chap did his tests and pronounced the battery failed, slated AGM and replaced with nice new Varta which he reckoned far better.  So all this has left my mind boggling which is not difficult nowadays. My Banners (in motorhome) are difficult to get at so will probably be out of electrolyte.  One is easier than the other so I shall check that first and if bad will take the seat out to get at the other.  Is there no end to it?


One thing to definately avoid unless you are the type of person who diligently does regular checking of everything is to get a battery that requires physical checking and maintenance.
If you don't go around checking the tyres before every journey and the oil & washer levels every week, the chances are you won't check the battery electrolyte level frequently enough.


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## Snapster (Oct 20, 2020)

We have two Varta LHD90 batteries under the passenger seat. I was thinking of relocating them to the garage at the rear. If I do this, will there be a voltage drop over the cable run to where the batteries were originally and what size cables should I use to reduce this?


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## TR5 (Oct 20, 2020)

You will certainly have to assess the length of run of cable, the sort of draw you will expect (i.e. if you run a 2kw - 3kw inverter), all will determine the size of cable needed. Get it wrong and you certainly will suffer substantial voltage drop. A qualified auto-electrician should be able to advise when you have the info at hand. Also, make sure you fuse the cable at both ends, and that the fuse rating is less than the max current the cable can carry.


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## trevskoda (Oct 20, 2020)

Debroos said:


> Could we fit one of these into our t5 as our leisure battery? We are totally ignorant on all this and need a new one...our usage is low, mostly lights and recharging stuff when driving...


Best to buy is a varta/bosch silver power frame battery, cost about £110 , after this things get expensive.


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## trevskoda (Oct 20, 2020)

lincapelo said:


> I also have solar panels in my house.


Im told by the time they start to pay there past the best by date.


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## winks (Oct 20, 2020)

Snapster said:


> We have two Varta LHD90 batteries under the passenger seat. I was thinking of relocating them to the garage at the rear. If I do this, will there be a voltage drop over the cable run to where the batteries were originally and what size cables should I use to reduce this?



Here's a full explanation of voltage drop and a natty calculator.





__





						Cable Size Calculator - Cable sizing and selection | 12 Volt Planet
					

Cable Size Calculator - Read our guide to selecting cable of the correct type and size for your automotive, marine or leisure wiring application. Auto and Marine Electrical Components from 12 Volt Planet



					www.12voltplanet.co.uk
				




Cheers

H


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## TR5 (Oct 20, 2020)

Halfords HLB700  is a Yuasa EFB 100amp/hr fully maintenance free battery with their own label on. These have been highly recommended as leisure batteries for a couple of years now.


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## Sid (Oct 20, 2020)

Robmac said:


> I run a pair of 6V Trojan T125's and to be honest that is more than adequate for me.





TR5 said:


> Halfords HLB700  is a Yuasa EFB 100amp/hr fully maintenance free battery with their own label on. These have been highly recommended as leisure batteries for a couple of years now.


Just got the same well in Yuassa guise anyway. According to the tests done by the guy at aand a caravans show them to be well underrated cycles wise. 
Most car manufacturers have stopped using AGM as the start stop now. 
I just wish I could get a pair of the batteries on the boat. These are Delco freedom 1 a traction used as the house batt and the other a starter hybrid. The traction batt just failed this year after, 23 years the other one is still going strong. They have only been charged by alternator and intermittent charging over the winter.


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## Markd (Oct 20, 2020)

TR5 said:


> Halfords HLB700  is a Yuasa EFB 100amp/hr fully maintenance free battery with their own label on. These have been highly recommended as leisure batteries for a couple of years now.


Good battery but you can get the real thing (L36 EFB) delivered from Alpha for less (with our discount) and an extra year's guarantee.


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## Harrytherid (Oct 21, 2020)

How do you get the forum discount and the guarantee ?


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## wildebus (Oct 21, 2020)

Harrytherid said:


> How do you get the forum discount and the guarantee ?


1) goto https://wildcamping.co.uk/forums/full-member-special-offers-discounts.181/
2) whatever the battery shows in the store is what you get.


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## Debroos (Oct 26, 2020)

Markd said:


> Good battery but you can get the real thing (L36 EFB) delivered from Alpha for less (with our discount) and an extra year's guarantee.


Is that one that needs topping up?


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## Mike24 (Nov 11, 2020)

Ferris day off said:


> Hi. Just wondering how this works in practice as I'm thinking of getting a solar panel to fit on the dashboard. Do you connect to your cigar lighter which would charge the SB and then trickle charge the LB when it's fully charged, or do use crocodile clips straight to LB? TIA.


Lots of info online utube etc about batteries panels and charge controllers


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## SquirrellCook (Nov 11, 2020)

Mike24 said:


> Lots of info online utube etc about batteries panels and charge controllers


Don't trust utube.


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## Markd (Nov 11, 2020)

Debroos said:


> Is that one that needs topping up?


Sorry for the delay - No


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