# Miles Per Gallon



## avandriver (Sep 20, 2011)

*Miles Per Gallon  ( sorted  see pg 4 )*

Does 250 miles on a full tank sound right ?.

35/10 with a 2.8 turbo diesel high top medium wheelbase twin rear wheels


Probably half of that is motorway miles with the other half being around town .
I don't drive like a teenager possessed and never break the speed limits , been driving diesels for many years so I know when an engine is straining and what gear to be in .

Tyre pressures are correct and the brakes are not binding .
My van is a self built camper but it is not full of heavy insulation or overweight fixtures ( even the water tank is empty ) .

The engine runs really well and has got loads of power I have never seen any smoke out of the exhaust ( except when I restarted after a stall ) .

I am thinking that at some point in its history someone has tweaked the fuel pump .


Or am I being paranoid ? .










Steve


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## Biggles (Sep 20, 2011)

A tank is irrelevant if we don't know the capacity.  It could be good or bad.  Whats important is what you get to the gallon or litre not what you get to a tank.

I think I must be heavier than you and I get 24mpg even with 160l of water onboard.  When wilding I would rather have to pay to haul water around than be without it.


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## avandriver (Sep 20, 2011)

Opops left ot the most important figure .


The tank is 70 litres 


Steve


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## n brown (Sep 20, 2011)

yes i'm not sure if you're happy or sad but i had one of these and it was brilliant on fuel


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## caspar (Sep 20, 2011)

Very quick estimate assuming 4.5 litres to a gallon (slightly incorrect I know) gives just over 16mpg. That doesn't sound good. The Iveco normally does around 25 give or take a couple I think.


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## Techno100 (Sep 20, 2011)

Roughly 15.5 gallons. Even at 23 to the gallon should get you over 370 miles.
Most tanks are designed relative to consumption so there should be enough capacity to better 400 miles to reserve if driven carefully


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## Biggles (Sep 20, 2011)

16 sounds pretty dire.  

I would get it looked at.  If it has very high milage then a simple change if injectors could sort it out.  Time to have some diags done.

BTW I get 24 driving it over all conditions including 70+ on motorways.  I have to admit that I don't drive the MH with economy in mind.


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## David & Ann (Sep 20, 2011)

Mine is a 2.8TDI Ducato. I get 10Kms to each liter. Which is 700Kms to a tank, in miles roughly 420 miles, which is roughly 27 miles to the gallon That is fully laden. I never drive over 90 to 95 kms per hour. In the Alps and Pyrennes I get a lot less, about 550 kms to the tank.


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## David & Ann (Sep 20, 2011)

avandriver said:


> Does 250 miles on a full tank sound right ?.
> 
> 35/10 with a 2.8 turbo diesel high top medium wheelbase twin rear wheels
> 
> ...


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## Bernard Jones (Sep 21, 2011)

I also find it pointless when people quote so many miles 'to the tank'  Does that mean you fill it up then keep going till it runs out or what?
As far as I can see the only way to check it with any degree of accuracy is to fill the tank and record the mileage.  Do the driving, fill the tank and record the mileage again.  So you know how much fuel you have used for the mileage travelled.
When I was employed to drive lorries I was required to keep a detailed record of all fuel purchased, (because the boss was obsessed with people stealing fuel) so I do it with my own van as well and put it on a spreadsheet as he did. 
(currently showing 33.91 mpg over 17,489 miles, Citroen Relay 120 L4 H2 van running at about 3,100 kg gwt. The fuel recorder/computer fitted as standard equipment indicates the van to use about 10% less fuel than it actually does.  In the place where I worked this would probably have led to the boss making false accusations that the driver was stealing fuel)


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## David & Ann (Sep 21, 2011)

BJ is correct. That is the way I do it to find out my Kms/miles to a liter. Fill up and set the trip to "0" On your next fill up, take the reading of the trip and divide the Kms/miles to the amount of fuel on the refill.


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## Byronic (Sep 21, 2011)

Bernard Jones said:


> I also find it pointless when people quote so many miles 'to the tank'  Does that mean you fill it up then keep going till it runs out or what?
> As far as I can see the only way to check it with any degree of accuracy is to fill the tank and record the mileage.  Do the driving, fill the tank and record the mileage again.  So you know how much fuel you have used for the mileage travelled.
> 
> 
> ...


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## caspar (Sep 21, 2011)

To be fair, I suspect that is what avandriver did. I certainly gave him/her the benefit of the doubt when calculating mpg. It is recognised as the normal way to work mpg out accurately. As for foaming  and cut off points, I always make sure that I fill beyond these. Cut off points are largely dictated by the neck into which the pump nozzle goes and the design beyond - some 'blow back' quicker than others. 

OP - I'd monitor it as mentioned for a few tanks full, and if results don't improve, start investigating. I assume filters etc... have all been recently changed and it has been regularly serviced. If new to you and it hasn't, I'd change the filters, get the gunge from the tank, put in some Redex diesel to clean through the injectors and see if it makes any difference. If there's loads of built up gunk in the tank, it may take a couple of filter changes to get things sorted. 

If that doesn't work, and you've inspected for leaks, then injectors would be the next thing, then I would guess the pump. I hasten to add I'm not an expert mechanic, so stand to be corrected on the above.


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## MikeH (Sep 21, 2011)

A slipping clutch can also affect your mpg. Have you noticed if you`re revving higher than usual up hills, pulling away etc? I`d also check the gearbox oil level whilst you`re at it.


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## Mothman (Sep 21, 2011)

Mine 1.9 fiat Ducato fully laden including water on board around 22mpg,,


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## Firefox (Sep 21, 2011)

I reckon to get about 600 miles per tank on the Movano

Fuel tank capacity 90 litres of which I use 80. Bottom 10 litres is on reserve/fuel low light.

80 litres x 0.22 = 17.6 gallons.

I get 33-35mpg combined that's 580 - 616 miles per tank. Movano fuel consumption is fantastic. If you drive it carefully on the motorway letting it coast down slopes with foot off the pedal you can get close to 40mpg.


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## avandriver (Sep 21, 2011)

After seeing the mpg some of you guys are getting I think something has to be done .


I have added a large dose of diesel injector cleaner and will see how that goes .

The van had a full service just a month before I got it with all new filters , the clutch is not slipping .

if I get no joy from the redex then I will be looking for a reputable Bosch diesel centre . 


Steve


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## Firefox (Sep 21, 2011)

Common rail, high pressure injection, a turbo, and computer management like on my engine are great for power and economy.

But they can't be used with veg oil, and are often expensive to repair when they go wrong. Nevertheless I would expect more than 16 mpg on an older type engine. My old CF2 2300 used to do about 25, and that was with a dodgy injector pump and a tired engine.


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## Beemer (Sep 21, 2011)

My van is a 4 tonne, 2.8 turbo diesel and I get 25mpg.  So your fuel consumption seems to be not very good i am afraid.


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## Bernard Jones (Sep 21, 2011)

caspar said:


> As for foaming  and cut off points, I always make sure that I fill beyond these.


 
In that case you are probably losing fuel out of the overflow pipe when it expands on hot days.  I used to fill my petrol Rover Maestro van to the second or third click.  I once drove home about 2 miles, parked on the drive in hot sunshine, half an hour later smelt petrol and saw it dripping out of the overflow pipe. I had to syphon about a couple of pints out before it stopped dripping altogether.  I never knew petrol expanded so much. I realise diesel is not as hazardous as petrol, but you still don't want to spill it on the road.


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## Bigpeetee (Sep 21, 2011)

Our Kontiki is 3400 Kg MAW 2.8 IDTD Ducato base

We usually drive at 60 on motor/dual carriageway

Light right foot!!

About 28 MPG or when going to gigs, we tow a trailer full of kit, then it's about 25 MPG

Go up to 70 on motorways then fuel consumption rises drastically.

Remember, double the speed, quadruple the drag.  Motorhomes are not exactly aerodynamic


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## AuldTam (Sep 21, 2011)

Firefox said:


> Common rail, high pressure injection, a turbo, and computer management like on my engine are great for power and economy.
> 
> But they can't be used with veg oil, and are often expensive to repair when they go wrong. Nevertheless I would expect more than 16 mpg on an older type engine. My old CF2 2300 used to do about 25, and that was with a dodgy injector pump and a tired engine.



I have a renault master 2.2dci and get around 28ish mpg if i'm doing 65 to 70 mph on a long run and can get it to around 32ish if I cruise at 56 to 60 mph. Monitored it last week on a 340 mile round trip with a full gas bottle and 25ltr water onboard, I'm happy with that. 

I should add that its a regularly serviced van.


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## Nosha (Sep 26, 2011)

Like David & Anne we have a low profile coachbuilt with 2.8 Jdi and get between 25 & 28mpg, the lower figure is usually when doing short trips or driving at higher speeds, but at 60 - 65mph it's 27 - 28mpg.

16mpg is terrible and would suggest a problem, even our 7.4ltr petrol Winnebago did 11.3mpg!


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## daemon (Sep 26, 2011)

Burstner T 605 2.8 jtd  long runs can get 30mpg at 2000 rpm faster 26-28mpg messing about in cities just dont look at the fuel gauge there all the same


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## Bewicklass (Sep 27, 2011)

You lot need to forget the big vans - get yourselves a Citroen Berlingo car and make it into a wee camper and on a long drive you can get 60 mpg!!! Woo Hoo - it's the way to go :lol-053:


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## MartianTom (Sep 27, 2011)

*Good fuel economy*

My bus is a little half-ton coach-built with a 1.9 TD Fiat Ducato engine.  On my recent trip I kept full records of fuel top-ups/consumption.  I never went above 60 (seems to be the optimum speed for what are basically bricks on wheels!), and spent approximately half of my 650 miles on B roads - up and down the box, lucky to hit 50.  Nonetheless, I figured it out that I averaged 32 to the gallon, which I was more than pleased with.

I've been thinking about looking for, or maybe making, a V-shaped spoiler that I can mount on the cab roof to fill the gap between that and the base of the over-cab bed area.  It's the main dead spot for wind resistance, and I'm sure a spoiler would improve fuel economy no end.

Does anyone know of a company that makes 'em?


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## Byronic (Sep 27, 2011)

Bewicklass said:


> You lot need to forget the big vans - get yourselves a Citroen Berlingo car and make it into a wee camper and on a long drive you can get 60 mpg!!! Woo Hoo - it's the way to go :lol-053:



And after a couple of wet weeks in it I'd be going round the twist shouting Woo Hoo not able to forget I am in a small van.
OK for a couple of days. 
Each to their own, but what I "overspend" in fuel with a larger van I save in campsite charges by wild camping, due to being self contained. I would be much more tempted by campsites in a small van.


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## maingate (Sep 27, 2011)

I think 16 mpg is unusually low and you have a problem.

My 2.8 jtd on a van with 5 tonne MAM does better than that (about 23 to 24 on a decent run).

Ignore your speedo and work off the RPM. Accelerate up to 3,000 revs before changing up and cruise at 2,000 revs or just over for maximum fuel efficiency.

First of all though, get a good diesel mechanic to look at it.


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## David & Ann (Sep 27, 2011)

Any comments or advice. My speedometer is in Kms. I have noticed when I am driving my Garmin Satnav for example shows I am doing 80 Kph but the speedo is  only showing 75Kph. Which is more accurate? I think the Satnav is spot on. Why the difference.


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## cooljules (Sep 27, 2011)

David & Ann said:


> Any comments or advice. My speedometer is in Kms. I have noticed when I am driving my Garmin Satnav for example shows I am doing 80 Kph but the speedo is  only showing 75Kph. Which is more accurate? I think the Satnav is spot on. Why the difference.


 
all speedos err on the side of caution.  plus they are not that acc anyway, some cars are way off at higher speeds. my car says i am doing 145 but the sat nav says 138.


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## maingate (Sep 27, 2011)

David & Ann said:


> Any comments or advice. My speedometer is in Kms. I have noticed when I am driving my Garmin Satnav for example shows I am doing 80 Kph but the speedo is only showing 75Kph. Which is more accurate? I think the Satnav is spot on. Why the difference.



Speedos should never read low but they can read a little high. I have the reverse situation to you, which is normal.

Have you got the correct tyres fitted, as that could account for the discrepancy.

Alternatively, borrow another satnav and see what happens.


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## David & Ann (Sep 27, 2011)

maingate said:


> Speedos should never read low but they can read a little high. I have the reverse situation to you, which is normal.
> 
> Have you got the correct tyres fitted, as that could account for the discrepancy.
> 
> Alternatively, borrow another satnav and see what happens.


 

I'll check that out tomorrow Jim. The MH needs a run anyway. Thanks for making that point.


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## Bewicklass (Sep 28, 2011)

Byronic said:


> And after a couple of wet weeks in it I'd be going round the twist shouting Woo Hoo not able to forget I am in a small van.
> OK for a couple of days.
> Each to their own, but what I "overspend" in fuel with a larger van I save in campsite charges by wild camping, due to being self contained. I would be much more tempted by campsites in a small van.


 
Well I too save on campsite fees!! I have an extremely comfortable bed/sofa, a storage cupboard which is also big enough for cooking on top of and as a table for eating off (Tilly stove does not need to be moved), a porta poti behind the driver's seat in the foot well which enables me to stand up etc, a 25 litre water carrier which fits neatly in the foot well behind the passenger seat and under the bed AND I still have plenty room left to use one of my sliding doors. Oh yeah, and tons of storage space!

So you see. I too am fully self contained! Infact I'm not altogether sure why, if you had a small van you think you would need to use a campsite. I have all the facilities you prob have - just in miniture!! :lol-053:

And of course there is the very BIG added advantage that you can get yourself in the smallest and most beautiful, hideaway spots where you can guarantee you'll have it all to yourself with not a large motorhome in site. :raofl: - now that to me is the beauty of wild camping - if I wanted to be near others I'd go to a campsite!!

Oh and I forgot to mention - there's SOOOO much space in my van there's even plenty of room for my Springer Maisy. Roll on next summer when we shall be touring the north and west of Scotland for a month - in my diddy van


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## Byronic (Sep 28, 2011)

Bewicklass you miss my point, I'm not attempting to make you see it my way, I'm merely pointing out why I'd rather have a larger van, and pay for increased fuel costs, as I said, each to their own.
I have in the past had small/medium size vans eg VW conversions, but they were for relatively short summer holidays doing the Grand European tour, that sort of thing rather like your month round Scotland.

Nowadays I go to the Med. for 5 winter months. I find a small van claustrophobic for that length of time, I know, I've tried it. Also the amount of clobber I carry demands a larger van..... I tend nowadays towards the comfort side of motorcaravanning rather than the basic. I prefer a built in shower rather than making do with a bucket, that sort of thing. I just weigh up what's important to me. 

IMO it is the very miniaturisation of the facilities in a small van that make it a pain, the constant reorganising to make use of the facilities, when all those factors were taken into consideration I used to take the campsite option more often than not. 

I obviously can't get into the places that a small van might. However, off the beaten track in Spain there are wildcamp sites that low ground clearance or FWD vehicles can't get into. You win some you lose some.


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## driftwood (Sep 29, 2011)

Bewicklass said:


> [snip]
> 
> I have all the facilities you prob have - just in miniture!! :lol-053:
> 
> [snip]



   Except for a miniature spell-checker, apparently 

 I am in the middle of a UK-Russia-UK trip and my incomplete fuel consumption log is as follows:

[Edit: replaced by a complete log]

"Talbot"	"Note: some fuel used for heating"					
"Date"	"Cost"	"Currency"	"Quantity"	"Mileage"	"MPG"	
21/08/11					40.000	119297		
22/08/11					45.000	119552	25.76	
23/08/11					40.000	119827	31.25	
25/08/11					40.000	120164	38.30	
25/08/11	48.42	"Euro"	40.000	120450	32.50	"mileage guessed"
27/08/11	500.00	"RUR"	20.040	120575	28.36	"mileage guessed"
27/08/11			"RUR"	11.670	120650	29.22	"mileage guessed"
27/08/11			"RUR"	 8.260	120700	27.52	"mileage guessed"
28/08/11	500.00	"RUR"	19.084	120820	28.59	"mileage guessed"
05/09/11	899.99	"RUR"	33.370	121025	27.93	"mileage guessed"
16/09/11			"RUR"	42.550	121300	29.38	"mileage guessed"
16/09/11			"RUR"	42.000	121614	33.99	
17/09/11			"RUR"	30.992	121892	40.78	
19/09/11			"RUR"	40.000	122119	25.80	
23/09/11			"RUR"	20.000	122304	42.05	
24/09/11			"RUR"	20.000	122407	23.41	
26/09/11			"RUR"	20.000	122575	38.19	
28/09/11			"RUR"	20.000	122728	34.78	
"Totals"				      532.966	   3,431	29.27	


I do not fill the 70 litre tank to capacity as there appears to be a leak when I do so.
I began the journey cruising at 50 m.p.h., but as the kilometres grew, between Moscow and Rostov, I would push it to 70 m.p.h. downhill. Sometimes 1-3 hitch-hikers on board, plus partner and self.


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## avandriver (Sep 29, 2011)

*Update*

Yesterday I went to see an old friend who happened to be an old style diesel fitter , he worked for Gardners repairing broken bus engines . 

He had a look through all the old receipts that were in the folder I had and then drove the van for a few miles ( Had a big grin on his face ) and  decided that the best solution would be to do this .


Half fill the tank and add two bottles of Redex diesel cleaner , drive for an hour as fast as you can and then let it tick over for another hour then use up as much of the fuel in the tank before refilling . 

I did as I was told and hooned it up and down the M60 scaring my son in the process .

The outcome after that is My MPG has improved greatly and the engine seems to run much smoother .

After Looking through the old service receipts and MOT's it turns out that my van has only done 600 miles in the last two years .


So the solution to it all is " Drive it like you stole it " occasionally .



Steve


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## London Lad (Sep 29, 2011)

Mine is a 1988 Fiat 1997cc Petrol, with a Talbot Highwayman body fitted.....any ideas anyone what to expect?
Not had it long and only done 140 miles thus far, but it seems to be easily 20mpg, with no motorways driven yet.

For the OP, glad you have it sorted now!


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## Byronic (Sep 29, 2011)

Many informed sources on various Vehicle Forums would advise doing just as you have done, as the first line of action if experiencing low mpg, black smoke, low power output, usually down to excessive short cold trips,causing soot build up on injector pintles, combustion chambers etc.
2 stroke motorbike oil, Forte, Redex are all recommended as  diesel fuel additives.


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## Sapper (Sep 29, 2011)

*Fuel Consumption..*

I can only speak from experience on driving Mercedes.  Years ago driving a self built 410, o/h consumption varied from local 20/23mpg. Touring 25/28 mpg. Coachbuilt [FFB Tabbert 675] on a 410 Auto,Turbo D, local 18/21mpg, touring Europe 25mpg, on the alps down to 13mpg. It was quite a heavy M/H.  Current vehicle 54reg LWB Sprinter 313, again a selfbuilt. 3xpax, self, wife, and daughter,in Feb/March[2011] toured Europe, F,D, Bavaria, down into Italy as far as Rome, coast road back as far as Genoa. M/way around Genoa, coast road around the French Riviara[that dunt luk rite], across as far as Lourdes, then up to Tours, Samur, etc etc, Mt St Michel, onto Ypres then home. Total mileage 4598m, all mileages/Litres/ were taken using the trip, the van averaged 36.2mpg. At home it averages 26/28mpg. I have pushed the 76lts to the touching cloth moment, and not trusting fuel gauges, I got to 500miles and re-fuelled. As you can imagine I [we] are well happy with our lot. Hope somehow this helps.. Hoping to go down and visit Chesil Beach 2nd w/e in Oct...Any good Wildcamps in the area???? Any ideas will be greatfully accepted... Happy Camping...:have fun:


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## Bewicklass (Sep 30, 2011)

Byronic said:


> Bewicklass you miss my point, I'm not attempting to make you see it my way, I'm merely pointing out why I'd rather have a larger van, and pay for increased fuel costs, as I said, each to their own.
> I have in the past had small/medium size vans eg VW conversions, but they were for relatively short summer holidays doing the Grand European tour, that sort of thing rather like your month round Scotland.
> 
> Nowadays I go to the Med. for 5 winter months. I find a small van claustrophobic for that length of time, I know, I've tried it. Also the amount of clobber I carry demands a larger van..... I tend nowadays towards the comfort side of motorcaravanning rather than the basic. I prefer a built in shower rather than making do with a bucket, that sort of thing. I just weigh up what's important to me.
> ...




Byronic, I think it is actually you who missed the point of my original post - this thread was originally started as a question on mpg - I merely pointed out how much I get in the way of mpg in my wee camper, which I have to point out is my one and only vehicle (I still need to work and as a supply teacher am often travelling to Newcastle each day from North Northumberland and can not be driving round in a large motorhome each day, not that I'd want to anyway!) I trust you noticed the laughing icon at the end - in my mind that means it's all in good jest.

You were the one who picked holes in my comment in the first place. As you say each to their own but many people cannot afford large vans. I presume as you spend 5 months in the Med you are either retired, have a stack of money or live in your van in which case you don't need to worry about paying the rent or mortgage. 

I am just as happy with my van as I'm sure you are with your's, but just think about your reply sometimes - I may well have said "You daft idiots, what the hell you got big vans for, if they do crap mpg. I've got the right size van, you must be mad to have big vans" for the comment I got. However I think you'll agree my comment was not in any way having a dig at anyone.

:lol-053: - means laughing, having a joke!


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## Russtic (Sep 30, 2011)

*Sat Navs v. Speedos*

Sat navs are a far better indicator of speed than a speedometer, the whole raisond'etre of a sat nav is to know exactly where you are on the planet which it plots loads of times per second, therefore can easily compute your exact speed. Whereas a speedometer has to rely too many variants such as tyre circumference, gearbox wear, mechanical wear etc. etc.


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## FastOlly (Oct 3, 2011)

I've been using fuelly.com to keep a track of my campervan economy since I got it:





Pretty happy with that, so far.


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## avandriver (Oct 4, 2011)

FastOlly said:


> I've been using fuelly.com to keep a track of my campervan economy since I got it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That looks an interesting tool .

Steve


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## lebesset (Oct 4, 2011)

speedos are always set to over read a little , so if you are doing 80Km /hr it should read , say , 85 

so if the sat nav say you are going faster than the speedo is reading , you have a problem somewhere ...I have no idea whether or not sat nav's tell the truth or not


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