# Mechanics- knowledge and hope needed



## justdoitviv (Mar 26, 2015)

This is a follow on thread from which I posted before, gathered the information I received and started to apply it. I now believe my van might be a write off. 

I had a slow leak, which got worse over 2 months. Then the coolant/water in that plastic bottle where you fill up was bubbling like a kettle, and the water was gushing out of the overflow pipe. This only happened when on the motorway, doing 60 or 70 miles, not local driving, at 30 to 50 mies per hour. Local driving I dont think I loose water. 

The local garage said it looked like head gasket, so I posted my previous thread for advice. 

On calling the fiat garage, for a new expansion cap, thermostats, and something else I was advised.......fiat said they doubt all 3 would go together, and would do me a head gasket test. 

This proved negative, they got the van up to 90 temp and the fans came on, and said it was the cap.  Then I mistakenly posted problem solved.

I lost more water with this new cap. I called fiat up and said the caps don't look the same... they kindly rebooked me in. The man said well the cap is correct because they go by chassay?? number, but maybe im over filling that plastic bottle, as look, if haven't lost any water driving from home to their garage, ( water on max) and maybe I got an air lock. There was no way to bleed?? the maybe airlock, so he took the cap off the expansion tank and ran the engine for a while. 

I told him I was not overfilling that plastic bottle. He can see the level now, ....now I am going to drive on the motorway, stop at 2 garages on motorway, get receipts for purchases to show time, and will be back shortly.  Did all this checking my water level at the garages, after 50 min, decided it too risky to drive further, made way back to garage, just off the motorway. Froze all the way as was told to keep heater off so engine can get hot.

He couldn't believe I had just a little bit of water bubbling away  left in that plastic bottle.
He then did a pressure test??????? something which if there is a leak somewhere the leak will show. Nothing showed up leaking, and the pressure gage stayed the same level. 

NOW THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE HERE THINGS CHANGE A BIT.

But still I have a question.........at this point........surely the pressure on the gage should go down....as I am loosing water so its going somewhere? On the net it says this test should be done on a cold engine, as a hot engine seals the leak...The engine was at about 75 degrees. Another head gasket dye test showed negative.

He filled the bottle up again, and I repeated the journey, having to return after 30 min because of water loss. 

Only a little bit of water left.....NOT BUBBLING AT ALL, AND NOT LEAKING FROM OVERFLOW PIPE.  He was surprised that when he took the cap off there was no pressure???? ie, normally you have to wait for engine to cool down. Engine again about 75/80 on the temp gage. HE SAID HE COULDNT UNDERSTAND WHY, BUT ITS A GOOD SIGN CAUSE IT MEANS THERE ISNT ANY PRESSURE. 

Refilled, and repeated the journey with heater on, so see if water from the heater manifold was leaking into the van. 

Same results.............no bubbling in the bottle, extreme water loss..............no wet floor, so heater ok.

Begged another dye test...slipped him £20.  He used a new bottle................... and the dye turned green. 

At home ........... immediately on the phone to guy who fitted my engine, last year feb, and the man who provided the cylinder head, and lots of research on net and calls to garages for information. 

IS THIS INFORMATION I POST NOW CORRECT.?
1.  There is a reason a head gasket goes after 4 thousand miles.......it means there is another problem with the van.....like over heating. It doesn't just break.
2.  The head cylinder the same......there is a slim chance it could have been faulty, usually it goes cause of over heating, there is a dot on it to show if van has overheated..(this part is still under guarantee) 

I KNOW FOR A FACT THIS VAN HAS NOT OVERHEATED.  That is the bad news for me...... 
3.  It can only mean that the block is faulty. 
4.  The van is 1998, so no 2nd hand engine available, same for a block.
5.  Am told parts are available for block,  total job 3 grand,  but a crack cant be fixed. 
6.  A different type of engine, cant be fitted cause of the rewiring and other problems. Is an original fiat engine. 

With no 2nd hand engine, and no 2nd hand block, and a cracked block cant be fixed, ..... I have no camper.

Thanks for your advice.......can someone give me hope........as last year it cost me £2400 to repair engine.
viv


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## justdoitviv (Mar 26, 2015)

*a little bit of hope*

The company who sold me the new cylinder head.......on their invoice it says engine code 230A3.000

When I called fiat today they told me this
chassay????// ZFA2300000546286
Engine  number 2112458

Could I have been sold the wrong cylinder head?


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## jackabea (Mar 26, 2015)

*Your Problems*

Hi Sorry to hear abour your problems, you have not said what engine is in your camper? CC. petrol/Derv turbo or not if you can let me know this i may be able to help out, where are you in the world?

jack







justdoitviv said:


> This is a follow on thread from which I posted before, gathered the information I received and started to apply it. I now believe my van might be a write off.
> 
> I had a slow leak, which got worse over 2 months. Then the coolant/water in that plastic bottle where you fill up was bubbling like a kettle, and the water was gushing out of the overflow pipe. This only happened when on the motorway, doing 60 or 70 miles, not local driving, at 30 to 50 mies per hour. Local driving I dont think I loose water.
> 
> ...


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## Tbear (Mar 26, 2015)

Try a bottle of Kseal. 

K-Seal Car Leak Repair: Coolant, Head Gasket & Radiator Sealant

It really is good stuff and for the price ???

Richard


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## witzend (Mar 26, 2015)

justdoitviv said:


> The company who sold me the new cylinder head.......on their invoice it says engine code 230A3.000
> Could I have been sold the wrong cylinder head?



I just googled your engine code and it seems its a 1.9 diesel also saw this ad which may interest you 230A3.000 Engine For Sale, Fiat Ducato Diesel Van 1.9 Turbo, Fits 94 to 98 | Ideal Engines & Gearboxes

Tbears suggestion is worth a try it is good stuff it does work
http://www.kseal.com/uk/?gclid=Cj0K...jbnhttnJIlUY2L6k-GlALHBu3wOsYJ_wjYaAp8n8P8HAQ


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## eddyt (Mar 26, 2015)

justdoitviv said:


> This is a follow on thread from which I posted before, gathered the information I received and started to apply it. I now believe my van might be a write off.
> 
> I had a slow leak, which got worse over 2 months. Then the coolant/water in that plastic bottle where you fill up was bubbling like a kettle, and the water was gushing out of the overflow pipe. This only happened when on the motorway, doing 60 or 70 miles, not local driving, at 30 to 50 mies per hour. Local driving I dont think I loose water.
> 
> ...



the main reason a head gasket would blow after 4 thousand miles would be the head bolts have not 
been torqued down properly when new head was fitted. If heater is still hot that is a good sign because if there is a
problem with head gasket it often causes the heater to air lock and blow cold. the head could be cracked but would need to be
taken off to be properly pressure tested. i dont think it would be the block have never known a damaged block in 40 years.
but the water pump can give intermittent faults like you have if the impeller keeps spinning on its shaft. Then somtimes 
gets a slight grip it could also be a parially blocked radiator. or hose collapsing inside. it will probably end up being somthing simple
though.


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## n brown (Mar 26, 2015)

i seem to remember suggesting K-Seal before . did you try it ?


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## justdoitviv (Mar 26, 2015)

*thank you*



jackabea said:


> Hi Sorry to hear abour your problems, you have not said what engine is in your camper? CC. petrol/Derv turbo or not if you can let me know this i may be able to help out, where are you in the world?
> 
> jack


Fiat ducato, turbo diesel, 1.9 Sheerness, Isle of Sheppey. If you can really help surely I can have the van delivered to you.?  

I brought the van for 17 grand, and in 6 years have spent which I have receipt for ..about £16 grand, where I keep getting ripped off. This is why I now post on here for advice before I pay for money for a garage. Unfortunatey I learnt this lesson too late. 

The cam belt snapped in the nov.........the garage told me £1 grand in total for repairs. On the internet it said recons from £1400 with 50 thousand miles etc. Each add different. They collect van and redeliver. Heard some bad reports about these adverts, kept the van local, with normal garage.

Come Mid december, he still could not get the parts, due to them not being original fiat......kept sending Peugeot and Citroen. I asked him what he needed, and found the part same day on line....cylinder head, new £700 two year guarantee. He spoke to the seller to make sure it correct part.......was bare. I paid, thinking I only had £300 left to pay. 
Part arrived jan from Europe. He still had trouble getting the other parts........I got the van back 23 feb 2014. with a £1066 bill and £420 bill for bits and bobs. Makes it nearly £2200.  
Immediately I rejected the van cause of excessive smoke.........left the van there said I don't want it in that condition. He put some stuff in to stop the smoking. After 2 weeks I took the van there and said he had better sort it.

Turned out the NEW TURBO CHARGE HE HAD FITTED was FAULTY. £900,  13 months since he fitted it.......but he had the van since nov.....so it was only driven for 9 months. 
Due to excessive smoke I was not happy.... more tests .......totally rejected the van, said the turbo was not fit for purpose or the engine faulty, where is my receipt and guarantee for engine.

Here is the shock........he said he only guarantee the top half of engine, as he didn't work on the bottom half. I said for less money I could have had a totally recon engine.  Why not the bottom half? He said bottom half looks ok, and seldom goes in a diesel. 

More shock.........he said a recon turbo...£600 with two year warrantee was the best deal he could get for my NEW TURBO.  By now I was very upset and wanted the name of the person who did the recon on my turbo........2years warrantee or 2nd hand, and 1 year warrantee for new. 

They said, they never supplied him a new turbo........they repaired The first one  for £135.  The 2nd repair, for £90 as the seal went. 
He don't know I know. 

I never used him again March/april when I got van back, after 15 years I realised he was ripping me off.

Water leak started about Nov 2014, now he says its out of guarantee......25/2 14 date of receipt for engine, date for turbo, when I when I finally got van back...after turbo....date of receipt 28/3/14 .....

So as far as I am concerned that's when I got final possession so it still guaranteed. 

But he didn't do the bottom half.......he didn't have it bored???????? or anything......saying it was ok.  

I KNOW this van did not over heat........... so it got to be the block with my limited knowledge, but am hoping someone here is going to tell me the cylinder head was wrong for my van, or there another answer.


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## frontslide (Mar 26, 2015)

justdoitviv said:


> The company who sold me the new cylinder head.......on their invoice it says engine code 230A3.000
> 
> When I called fiat today they told me this
> chassay????// ZFA2300000546286
> ...


Engine code and engine number are 2 different things, by the way is there white smoke coming out of the exhaust when the van is running?


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## justdoitviv (Mar 26, 2015)

*rac*



n brown said:


> i seem to remember suggesting K-Seal before . did you try it ?



rac did put something in the plastic bottle to seal the leak. What it was I don't know.....I did post a post on here cause at the same time they sold me a battery I realised I didn't need


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## justdoitviv (Mar 26, 2015)

*mmmmmmm not sure*



frontslide said:


> Engine code and engine number are 2 different things, by the way is there white smoke coming out of the exhaust when the van is running?


Not sure........I have commented to other campers about the smoke.....they said it normal.
Fiat garage says oil cap looks good, dip stick with oil on  a good sign, as no water, and not frothy?????????/ sorry just quoting quotes I don't anything about.  That plastic bottle looks good........well the coolant and water does........


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## frontslide (Mar 26, 2015)

White smoke from the exhaust could be steam, is why i asked.


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## justdoitviv (Mar 26, 2015)

*help*



witzend said:


> I just googled your engine code and it seems its a 1.9 diesel also saw this ad which may interest you 230A3.000 Engine For Sale, Fiat Ducato Diesel Van 1.9 Turbo, Fits 94 to 98 | Ideal Engines & Gearboxes
> 
> Tbears suggestion is worth a try it is good stuff it does work
> K-Seal Car Leak Repair: Coolant, Head Gasket & Radiator Sealant



The first link you sent...........I filled in my details and the magnifying glass is still going around......it also says the video is not available and neither is anything else I click on.... Can you try the link out for me please. Will be every grateful.

The 2nd link I pressed on..........gave me a choice of 3 options of this sealant.......which one do I need?

Many thanks for help


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## GWAYGWAY (Mar 26, 2015)

Do you have a watercooled unit on the pipe to the EXHAUST GAS RECIRCULATOR pipe, they seem to burn through on a few  different manufacturers engines, this will allow water into the exhaust and also the manifold.( loss of water and white condensate in the exhaust ) They very often get mistaken for head gaskets, which on diesel engine  are incredibly good seals unless it is overheated by lack of water allowing the head to warp..   Check the EGR first.  You may or may not have a cooler on it but if you have then the EGR can be blocked at the manifold end and the pipes to the water system blanked off or joined together,, It will not affect your particulate emissions adversely but the Nox might go up and the fuel consumption down.  IT IS A CHEAP REPAIR if you do that or the cooler could be repaired or replaced at whatever cost.


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## n brown (Mar 26, 2015)

justdoitviv said:


> The first link you sent...........I filled in my details and the magnifying glass is still going around......it also says the video is not available and neither is anything else I click on.... Can you try the link out for me please. Will be every grateful.
> 
> The 2nd link I pressed on..........gave me a choice of 3 options of this sealant.......which one do I need?
> 
> Many thanks for help


 get the K Seal Ultimate.it's sorted me out a few times,and it can't hurt to try it


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## justdoitviv (Mar 26, 2015)

*?*



GWAYGWAY said:


> Do you have a watercooled unit on the pipe to the EGT they seem to burn through on a few  different manufacturers engines, this will allow water into the exhaust and also the manifold.( loss of water and white condensate in the exhaust  They often get mistaken for head gaskets which on diesel engine  are incredibly good seals unless it is overheated by lack of water allowing the head to warp..   Check the EGT first.  You may or may not have a cooler on it but if you have then the EGT can be blocked at the manifold end and the pipes to the water system blanked off or joined together,, It will not affect your particulate emissions adversely but the Nox might go up and the fuel consumption down.  IT IS A CHEAP REPAIR if you do that or the cooler could be repaired or replaced at whatever cost.



Havent a clue what you talking about. BUT will be printing everyones reply to take to a recommended garage appointment I have at 1pm to have the dye test redone.  Im sure he will know what you talking about........in the mean time I will picking up a bottle of that k sealant........to take with.


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## justdoitviv (Mar 26, 2015)

*thanks*



n brown said:


> get the K Seal Ultimate.it's sorted me out a few times,and it can't hurt to try it


 thanks ....did the post code search and several places to pick it up on the way to new garage for a retest of the dye thingy..... I see on the right hand side it comes with instructions........haven't read them yet, but I prefer to supply the stuff myself and see it administered myself. You say you have used it several times........so its not a permanent fix......?? I need to get rid of this van asp????????????  after all the money I spent on it?????????? its like there isn't nothing new on it.!!!


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## pheasantplucker (Mar 26, 2015)

justdoitviv said:


> Havent a clue what you talking about. BUT will be printing everyones reply to take to a recommended garage appointment I have at 1pm to have the dye test redone.  Im sure he will know what you talking about........in the mean time I will picking up a bottle of that k sealant........to take with.



I once had a Ford Sierra and the return (recirculating) pipe was blocked in the expansion bottle by a small piece of rubber, maybe from a disintegrating piece of hose. The engine did run very hot but was saved from overheating fortunately, but possibly some obstruction when the thermostat is open could be your problem?


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## baldybloke (Mar 27, 2015)

I think you you need to go to a good small garage, as opposed to a main dealer, the earlier post referring to the EGT I suspect should read EGR valve, K seal can be a permanent fix for a leak, but is not a cure all, the dye test I am told is not 100% reliable on Diesel engines.

All that said I would doubt that your van is a write off, first thing you need to do is find a good/recommended garage/ mechanic, they are out there! Trouble is labour charges soon mount up.

I wish you luck with this, were I near your location I would take a look, but I stay the opposite end of the UK.


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## Tbear (Mar 27, 2015)

baldybloke said:


> I think you you need to go to a good small garage, as opposed to a main dealer, the earlier post referring to the EGT I suspect should read EGR valve, K seal can be a permanent fix for a leak, but is not a cure all, the dye test I am told is not 100% reliable on Diesel engines.
> 
> All that said I would doubt that your van is a write off, first thing you need to do is find a good/recommended garage/ mechanic, they are out there! Trouble is labour charges soon mount up.
> 
> I wish you luck with this, were I near your location I would take a look, but I stay the opposite end of the UK.



Nobody is suggesting that Kseal is 100% but it is quick, easy, simple, cheap and *often* very effective. It comes recommended to me by more than one good mechanic. If Viv only buys a bottle to put in her toolbox to use just in case the problem gets worse on one of her several trips to the garage, I think it would be money well spent.

Richard


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## n brown (Mar 27, 2015)

justdoitviv said:


> thanks ....did the post code search and several places to pick it up on the way to new garage for a retest of the dye thingy..... I see on the right hand side it comes with instructions........haven't read them yet, but I prefer to supply the stuff myself and see it administered myself. You say you have used it several times........so its not a permanent fix......?? I need to get rid of this van asp????????????  after all the money I spent on it?????????? its like there isn't nothing new on it.!!!


 i've used it several times because i buy ropey old cars and keep them going for as long as i can,for as little outlay and maintenance as poss !


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## baldybloke (Mar 27, 2015)

Sorry tbear, I know k-seal is an excellent product, and can repair a leak, sometimes almost permanently, I have used it with astonishing success, it is not however a cure for all ills with a coolant system, especially when it sounds as though it may be a problem with the original repair. I feel a proper diagnosis is best, k seal may well cure things, but it is not the best way to sort the issue especially if it is down to poor work or a faulty replacement head. It does sound like a leak, as the coolant will not disappear from a closed system.

I would suggest proper diagnosis first, then look at rectification options, just the way I work, know what you are dealing with, then you can properly consider your options to rectify the problem, even if it involves legal action, Viv has had a rough time with this van, I hope it con be sorted properly.


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## Tbear (Mar 27, 2015)

baldybloke said:


> Sorry tbear, I know k-seal is an excellent product, and can repair a leak, sometimes almost permanently, I have used it with astonishing success, it is not however a cure for all ills with a coolant system, especially when it sounds as though it may be a problem with the original repair. I feel a proper diagnosis is best, k seal may well cure things, but it is not the best way to sort the issue especially if it is down to poor work or a faulty replacement head. It does sound like a leak, as the coolant will not disappear from a closed system.
> 
> I would suggest proper diagnosis first, then look at rectification options, just the way I work, know what you are dealing with, then you can properly consider your options to rectify the problem, even if it involves legal action, Viv has had a rough time with this van, I hope it con be sorted properly.



I do agree but I have a feeling that Viv just wants a quick fix and if there are problems in another 10,000 miles ( I have known it to be still working after 30,000) she would be in a better mood to sort it then. Once a garage has failed to do a proper job it often the start of a long and expensive journey and even though the garage I had problems with settled out of court. It took months of anguish and I never did get all my money back.

Richard


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## GRWXJR (Mar 27, 2015)

If I read this right, then this engine had had the head gasket and head? Done once?

If so, I'd  ask if the people who did the work had the head tested before refitting to ensure it wasnt warped (and had it planed/machined if it was)?

Just fitting a new head gasket to an engine without doing this is a recipe for a repeat failure.

As you arent getting oil in your water, nor water in your oil then IF the cyl head gasket is leaking, then it would be drawing the water into 1 or more cylinders in v small quantities and then venting it as steam out of the exhaust pipe.  But, unless theres enough loss to make the steam really obvious you may well not see it driving or running stationary (youd need someone following your van and observing - and if steam and drips keep appearing once fully warmed up on the road this would suggest possible head gasket).

I dont know enough to comment on the EGR suggestion - but its got to be worth researching on the net for your engine, and getting investigated before major surgery, as EGRs and cooling pipes etc. are ancillary peripheral components that dont need big strip downs to address.

I was always brought up to consider that adding any sealants etc is a last resort and that a proper engineering repair is always best - so I tend to lean that way.  But as I  have never used K-Seal or similar (and am not a trained spanner man) for all I know it might be brilliant stuff.  Even so, id be happier being reasonably what is was avactually wrong first.

I hope you get to the bottom of it, without it proving expensive.

G.


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## justdoitviv (Mar 27, 2015)

GRWXJR said:


> If I read this right, then this engine had had the head gasket and head? Done once?
> 
> If so, I'd  ask if the people who did the work had the head tested before refitting to ensure it wasnt warped (and had it planed/machined if it was)?
> 
> ...



Block was not done as told very hard to damage it on my type of engine, and seemed ok. Only told this after I got the receipt mentioning top half of engine.
Cambelt snapped
The cylinder head was new, and bare,  and still under guarantee, providing the van has not overheated, and I brought it. The garage which fitted it said you cant skim or fix a cylinder head, hence the purchase of the new one.
The garage who did the fitting, provided the parts which go into the cylinder head.

Interestingly his receipt does not mention a head gasket.  Just cambelt, valves, and fit new head gasket.


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## Tbear (Mar 27, 2015)

I take it that there is no way you can call the AA/RAC man out to have a look. You may have to drive a couple of miles from home and not tell him the full store - pretend you have only just noticed the Huge water loss and are worried about driving it further. May get you a diagnosis as we are all giving you sensible advise  but based on guessing without seeing the van.

Richard


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## listerdiesel (Mar 27, 2015)

I wouldn't use any sealers, especially K-Seal. It's a 'Last Chance Saloon' fix for problem motors, but it rarely works properly and the remnants cause even more trouble later on.

Find an independent workshop that has some idea what they are doing and get it looked over.

From the description of what has been done, it sounds like a catalogue of minor disasters, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a write-off.

There are various ways to check for head gasket failure, bubbling in the header tank is usually a good indication if it is continuous, plus you can pressurise the cooling system over an hour or so and see if the pressure falls.

Finding a good independent is hard out where you are, you'd probably need to come in a bit to get a choice.

Peter


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## snowbirds (Mar 27, 2015)

Hi justdoitviv,

I must say I am amazed at what you have had to put up with at the hands of your garage.
I have had a lot of cars and vans in my time and have had to through lack of the money had to do the repairs myself,so had a fast learning curve.
I can see you have spent a lot of money on your van so for starters a lot of the the parts used are OK.
First of all I see the head was replaced with a new one and if the right head was fitted with the correct gasket,tightened down to the correct torque the new head should not need a skim.
2,boiling from the expansion bottle(if not head gasket) 1,water pump had it,2 thermostat not opening fully,(take it out and road test with out it) 3, Blocked or part radiator core. 4,Hoses part blocked or collapsed.5,fine hair crack in block.
I would think your mechanic would look at all of these points first.The only other problem I came across with my 30 year old Bedford CF was the waterways in the block clogged and I used a strong two part flushing agent that you run in the water system with the rad lid off for two hours,but it could make a bad headgasket worse.
In my later years I have tended to use Motor Engineers that I trust apart from the main Fiat commercial agent that I use for my main yearly service.
Good luck keep your chin up.

Regards Snowbirds.




justdoitviv said:


> Block was not done as told very hard to damage it on my type of engine, and seemed ok. Only told this after I got the receipt mentioning top half of engine.
> Cambelt snapped
> The cylinder head was new, and bare,  and still under guarantee, providing the van has not overheated, and I brought it. The garage which fitted it said you cant skim or fix a cylinder head, hence the purchase of the new one.
> The garage who did the fitting, provided the parts which go into the cylinder head.
> ...



pairs


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## sasquatch (Mar 27, 2015)

If its the same mechanic you keep going back to,I would summise that he doesn't know what he's doing. Find another preferably on personal reccomendation.
Or ditch the FIAT and buy a Transit no good throwing good money after bad.


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## witzend (Mar 27, 2015)

justdoitviv said:


> The first link you sent...........I filled in my details and the magnifying glass is still going around......it also says the video is not available and neither is anything else I click on.... Can you try the link out for me please. Will be every grateful.
> 
> The 2nd link I pressed on..........gave me a choice of 3 options of this sealant.......which one do I need?
> 
> Many thanks for help



Ok the first link is for a replacement engine phone the number on page to enquire

the second link I've used the Ultimate K Seal
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K-Seal-Ul...901?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item35e0fd33a5


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## GWAYGWAY (Mar 27, 2015)

CHECK THE  EGR PIPE COOLER as I mentioned it is a common fault and allows turbo and exhaust pressure into the water system. bypass the water pipe   10 minutes and try it again  BEFORE  doing any difficult or expensive.  This is a tale of a similar thing that may apply to yours.



WARNING WATER COOLED EGR PIPES
We don't post much on here or anywhere for that matter but thought our experiences need voicing to save others a fortune.
Firstly blank off the EGR pipe if you can, simple plate in one of the pipe joints. Has no affect on the MOT at all. Has no detrimental affect on the engine. If you run an EGR system the best that will happen is it works OK and your inlet manifold doesn't gum up (I do long fast journeys and mine still gums up on my other car), the worst that can happen is you have complete engine failure - read further.
We have a Ford Ranger 3 litre auto. The wife uses it as her car and we tow the fifth wheeler with it. Great truck, had no problem with it apart from this below, lovely to drive, tow's the fifth wheeler no problem.
But one day wife calls me, Ranger broke down, overheated, AA recovered, Nice AA man did his coolant check - yes combustion gases in coolant - head gasket gone. To cut a very long story short which took about 3 months of cost and frustration and stripping down of the cylinder head about 3 - 4 times in mid winter in my garage, new cylinder head, new cylinder head bolts, 3 head gaskets, water pump, thermostat, rad cap, etc etc. What was the original problem - THE EGR PIPE COOLER!!!!!!! All EGR systems have a pipe (usually stainless steel with a flexy bit in it) which bolts to the exhaust manifold and runs around to the other side of the engine and / or to the inlet manifold where an EGR valve sits which opens and closes to allow exhaust gas to run back through the inlet manifold and back into the engine to be re burnt to burn off some of the nasty's the tree huggers don't like (seriously I do take the environment seriously). So the exhaust gas is hot especially on turbo engines under load - the exhaust manifold to which this EGR pipe connects can glow red hot as there is heat build up behind the turbo. These hot gases go through the EGR valve and hit the much cooler inlet manifold, hence any oil stuff carried in the gases condense immediately on the colder inlet manifold - usually a lump of aluminium. That's why you get is gumming up. On many engines either the EGR pipe route is long enough to allow the gases to cool enough so they won't damage the EGR valve or cause problems in the inlet manifold. Hot gases or inlet charge into the engine reduced economy and power as the air mix is hotter and less dense hence it carries less oxygen and the bang for your buck in the engine is less meaning less power and less economy because the bang is less efficient. On turbo engines they go to a lot of trouble and cost to intercool the air going in - the big ali rad between the turbo and the inlet manifold is the intercooler, only dump a load of mucky hot air in there after it has been cooled. There are other negative issues on turbo engines with this too - the hotter the air the less turbo pressure the engine can take as the engine can pre detonate with hot air at turbo pressure, so the turbo pressure and the power / economy it produces is restricted / controlled by the ECU by dependant in the temp of the air going in.
The punch line here is on some engines the EGR pipe needs to be cooled to reduce the gas temp so it won't damage the EGR valve and / or reduce the efficiency of the engine due air that is too hot going in and to reduce the gunk condensing in the inlet manifold problem.
Some EGR pipe are water cooled; the pipe has a rad / heater type matrix in the middle of it - a box with passages in it which allow the gases to pass through and the box contains water which runs around the passages and cools the gas as it passes through. Clever stuff if it doesn't go wrong. The issue is if the passage leak the water - which is the coolant from the engine goes into the passages, down the EGR pipe into and through the engine and might come out as steam through the exhaust pipe - generally only light steam and very difficult to differentiate between exhaust gas / smoke or steam!! The coolant system is de pressurised as it has a leak through the EGR cooler, this in turn causes the coolant to over heat (it boils if not under pressure - water under pressure has a higher boiling point - pressure cooker principle) which in turn expands into the expansion tank from the rad and then overflows and the coolant is lost, the cylinder head overheats - warps and the head gasket fails, if this continues oil pressure is lost - overheat and bearing failure or head gasket fails into an oil pressure way - then BANG engine blows up.
We managed to catch it at the head gasket blow stage, replaced the cylinder head because we thought it was warped / cracked with the overheat - NOT it was the EGR cooler leaking which couldn't be found until the EGR cooler was taken off but still connected to the coolant pipe - feed and return - the coolant system was pressurised and the coolant leaked out of the gas pipe running through the cooler!!!!!!!!!!
I blanked off the EGR pipe at the exhaust manifold, took the coolant feed and return pipes off and connected them together allowing normal flow through the system excluding the EGR cooler. Fixed the - everything OK now. Apart from engine light on- fault code reads insufficient exhaust gas recirculation. I KNOW I have blanked it off. For now we run with the light on, it has been through 2 MOT's like this (my dad used to be an MOT tester and used to own an MOT testing station so we know what will pass and what will not and why EGR or not is no MOT problem). I could get a remap and an EGR delete on the ECU. Or I could get a new EGR cooler - new is loads of money and used is still nearly loadsa money (they must hold their price cos of failures and cost of new). But either way we don't want it and have to drive with one eye on the temp gauge!!!! We could run with the egr pipe connected but not coolant but the hot gas is likely to damage the egr valve causing later problems there. So better to run without!
SO I URGE YOU TO CHECK IF YOU AHAVE HAVE A WATER COOLED EGR PIPE AND BLANK IT OFF AND MOSTCONNECT THE COOLANT PIPES TOGETHER SO THEY CAN'T LEAK INTO THE COOLER. IF YOU WANT TO DO A FULL JOB GET AN EGR DELETE ON THE ECU.
THOSE WITH A 'IF IT AINT BROKE DONT MESS WITH IT MENTALITY', CHECK YOU HAVE RECOVERY AND WATCH THE TEMP GAUGE AND YOU HAVE ENOUGH CASH FOR A NEW ENGINE WORST CASE.
WE COULDN'T RUN FOR MORE THAN 3 MILES OF GENTLE DRIVING WITHOUT A COMPLETE OVERHEAT, SO YOU HAVE THAT MUCH TIME TO REACT AND SHUTDOWN BEFORE POSSIBLE ENGINE DAMAGE!


I do urge you to check if yours has one of these, I think it does.


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## GRWXJR (Mar 27, 2015)

GWAYWAY's post makes sense.

Viv doesnt need to fully understand it, just take the van to a bloke that does.  If the mechanic thats worked on it so far cant follow the above, then he shouldnt be allowed anywhere near the engine again.

Its not a big job to bypass by the sound of it and there seems little to lose and possibly much to gain by giving it a go?

I just hope for Vivs sake it is this, and that the issue hasnt had chance to affect the new cyl head.


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## trevskoda (Mar 27, 2015)

k seal good for emergencys but blocks rads and heater matrixes,hope you are not topping up with water use only antifreeze as it runs at cooler temp ,cheak water pump empellar and look for hose that my have colapsed.
pull out the stat and go for a long run but put a flushing agent in first. I had a toyota in once same trouble after a day arsing around found that there was a hairline crack in the inlet manifold as it was water cooled and leeking into the engine inlet air steam when hot,3 or 4 maineacks were at this car before me and could not find the fault but in fairness daft problems are the worst to sort,good luck.


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## GRWXJR (Mar 27, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> k seal good for emergencys but blocks rads and heater matrixes,hope you are not topping up with water use only antifreeze as it runs at cooler temp ,cheak water pump empellar and look for hose that my have colapsed.
> pull out the stat and go for a long run but put a flushing agent in first. I had a toyota in once same trouble after a day arsing around found that there was a hairline crack in the inlet manifold as it was water cooled and leeking into the engine inlet air sream when hot,3 or 4 maineacks were at this car before me and could not find the fault but in fairness daft problems are the worst to sort,good luck.



Trev - pretty sure its the other way around with coolant - increase concentration with more neat antifreeze and the ability of the coolant to disperse heat diminishes - meaning it runs the engine hotter.

Pretty certain that adding neat antifreeze is not a good idea.


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## guerdeval (Mar 27, 2015)

*mystery water loss*

I'm no mechanic but I can re-tell a similar situation,  all my symptoms were similar to yours,  eventually the fault was accidentally traced to the water pump area, when the engine got hot the fan would come on and as the water pump shaft rotated it was discovered the seal was no longer round but had become oval and  therefore it leaked, someone more knowledgeable can explain this better than myself but worth looking around the bottom pulley when running warm.


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## trevskoda (Mar 28, 2015)

GRWXJR said:


> Trev - pretty sure its the other way around with coolant - increase concentration with more neat antifreeze and the ability of the coolant to disperse heat diminishes - meaning it runs the engine hotter.
> 
> Pretty certain that adding neat antifreeze is not a good idea.



no thats why its called antifreez and summer coolant and thats why modern cars and race cars have smaller rads,also ww2 spits used full strength glycol in sys so rads could be smaller to cut down on drag,but one thing i forgot to say was to take van on high speed run and stop engine get out and run hand over rad and bottom hose feeling for cold spots and if found then its part blocked requiring flushed or replaced ,i have found this on a few cars in the past.
A other point antifreez has electrletic blockers in it to stop disimiler metal depleation betreen iron or alloy heads and head gaskets,so should be always up to strength.also i put a table spoon of brake flued in header tank which helps the seal on water pump ,its a old trick.


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## Broombroomsteps (Mar 29, 2015)

*K seal*

There is a new k seal out there now it's called k seal ultimate better than old one have used on a late Vauxhall with a cracked head worked a treat can only be bought for authorszed dealers about £30 + vat


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## jackabea (Mar 29, 2015)

*Well and truly*

Sorry for not getting back earlier, I think Viv you have been well and truly ripped off, Have you considered a legal route and go to trading standards and ask their advise, they may well be able to help you and maybe recover some of you money.

This so called mechanic? has no business near yours or anyone elses vehicles and something should be done about him!

I have spoken to my garage and explained your problems and he, quite correctly says he can't say without looking at it! but £900 for a Turbo is bang out of order, recon Fiat Ducato Turbo £240 from his supplier.

He has suggested Trading standards too, but in the circumstances you need to find a reputable repairer who will do this job properly for your own piece of mind
www.bestgarageguide.co.uk/‎
Brambledown Autos - Sheerness

you can also google bobfishers in Ashford.
To be honest you have spent a lot of money and still got the problem, bodging it with stop leaks and the like is not worth it, if you want to keep the MH.
If you were closer to use we would willingly try to assist you with this, but being in wolverhampton it is a little far even to recover the MH 
It is good that this forum has so many active users to offer assistance and advise it show genuine people care about each others problems

Let us know which way you decide to act, and keep us all up to date.

Don't hestitate to ask if you need advise

Take care

jack


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## jimbohorlicks (Mar 29, 2015)

Hi
i'm not a mechanic and don't have this issue on my motorhome but the symptoms you describe re the water leak and the water header tank bubbling away and overflowing is exactly the same as i have on my rover 25. the cause has been attibuted to a worn water pump .
I tried the radiator leak stuff and it worked for a while but now have to top up with water before a journey and during. The car is not worth the cost of reapir and will be scraped this year so I just put up with it and keep the water topped up .

My point is it may be worth while looking at the water pump -not sure if it is accessible on your engine but if it is its an easy fix and not too expensive

best of luck


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## GRWXJR (Mar 29, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> no thats why its called antifreez and summer coolant and thats why modern cars and race cars have smaller rads,also ww2 spits used full strength glycol in sys so rads could be smaller to cut down on drag,but one thing i forgot to say was to take van on high speed run and stop engine get out and run hand over rad and bottom hose feeling for cold spots and if found then its part blocked requiring flushed or replaced ,i have found this on a few cars in the past.
> A other point antifreez has electrletic blockers in it to stop disimiler metal depleation betreen iron or alloy heads and head gaskets,so should be always up to strength.also i put a table spoon of brake flued in header tank which helps the seal on water pump ,its a old trick.



Q: Why shouldn't you use 100% "antifreeze" in your car?

A: Because the specific heat capacity of "antifreeze" is not as good as water, so it is hopeless as a "coolant".

Put simply, a 100% "antifreeze" solution in your cooling system will cause your engine to overheat in hotter climates, and in the hotter months in the UK.

The Specific Heat Capacity of Water at room temperature is approx 4.184 kJ/kgK, whilst the Specific Heat Capacity of Ethylene Glycol is only 2.38 kJ/kgK.

Its not just about coolants ability to inhibit corrosion and prevent freezing in cold temps.  Its about its ability to keep the engine temperature at a safe level.  100% neat antifreeze in a cooling system would have drastically LESS ability to manage the heat - in fact 100% water shifts heat better than an antifreeze mix.  Vehicle cooling systems are designed to run on a mixture of between one-third and one-half coolant solution - it'll make the engine overheat a lot faster if you get Viv to pour neat coolant in it!

Don't believe me - do your own research!


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## justdoitviv (Apr 1, 2015)

*update, and more questions*

after the fiat garage I went to another garage who was highly recommended.
This garage was expecting a car, and as his drive way up to garage was full I could not get it up. He told me to return Monday. He seemed disinterested because he said he cant repair the van, because its too high for his workshop, but would do the dye test,. and pressure test The dye turned green, was positive, and he wrote on the receipt, gasket head or cylinder head problems.

Tues, I took it to another recommended garage, who said the dye test was not good for diesel engines. But he would do some tests. Don't know what to make of this garage.!! the receipt says.....Carry out block test and pressure test from cold. NO FAULTS FOUND. .............. Retest when hot. unburnt fuel in water system indicating a cracked cylinder head.
I asked him how he knew it was the cylinder head and not the head gasket. He said if it was head gasket the coolant would disappear all the time, not just when the engine was hot.  He said when the engine was hot, the cracks open up on the cylinder head, ............ well something like that.  But he wont repair the van, as its too time consuming and he said I must go back to the fitter who did the job.

iS HE CORRECT in his opinions?

He also said, that k seal would not work, because the cracks open larger when the engine is hot.  However reading the k seal q and a, done correctly this wont happen.

Im also a bit disappointed with this garage because he told me I had a terrible awful serious oil leak.  I thought...WHAT?  The Fiat garage tested my oil , after I was driving hard on the motorway, and there wasn't a leak. He showed me a pool of oil on his floor. He said it would be about £80 pounds to change the oil gasket,??? just unscrewing some bolts or something. I drove home 5 min, and when I stopped I looked on the floor and there was a smallish (saucer size) of oil.  Needless to say this didn't make me feel better.

I had copied and pasted everyones replies,  and printed for easy reading,  to show the garages of possible other problems.... they weren't interested. They both said........oh yea ...the internet...all sort of incorrect information blah blah, and did NOT read it.

This morning, when I opened the bonnet to top up with oil.....what a shock...... the oil cap was not on properly. There are two hook like things inside the cap which screw on the oil thingy. Only one hook was screwed on. And what a mess!!!!!!!!!!!!! oil everywhere. 

Tomorrow I will drive on the motorway and see if I loose more oil and how much water.

I have received an e mail from the company who supplied me the cylinder head, who have confirmed the head is under guarantee, and if found to be their fault they will pay directly to the garage to rectify the situation, but its got to be one of their agents.  Im a  bit nervous using their agent, as they might be bias. And if it turns out not to be cylinder head, this company is very expensive, and it will cost quite a bit out of my pocket.

And who is to say it isn't the erg thingy or manifold, or the other things people have suggested. No one has tested these things yet.

On the forecourts my van is selling for 16 to 18 grand...but in pristine condition. Mine is not in pristine condition....I would say fair. I called a couple of garages to find out how much I would get for a direct sale.....4 or 5 grand.  If I did a trade in......depending on the condition of van and the price of another van  trade in would be about 8 to 9 grand.  Which means I would have to buy a van about 28 grand upwards.  I doubt I could get the finance for it.

The garage who fitted the engine and supplied the head gasket does not accept its still under guarantee with him, and the gasket head people wouldn't accept it.  The van went in to garage nov, I got the van back end of feb, rejected it because of the smoking, there and then, had it back for 3 days or so, returned it and rejected it again. After another turbo was fitted it was end of march when I got van back. The rac was treating the water leak in jan............ as I mentioned in my previous post. Which is as far as I am concerned in the guarantee period. But he wont have it.

Do I try another garage around here? Or do I try get to Wolverhampton where post 38  said their garage may be able to help and was honest.? Hopefully He  maybe agree to do all the other tests everyone suggested, and if it is the cylinder head I pay and try collect from the supplier, and if its the gasket head, I suffer the loss. If its the block, I tell him to put it all back together and chuck in the k seal.  Just a thought, I could do the journey slowly over 2 or 3 days, stopping every 20 min, to check oil and water.

Post 31 is pretty sure that the erg should be checked.

Cant believe I have spent over £33 grand in 7 years with purchase and repairs and left with more debt or only get 5 grand for a sale.


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## jagmanx (Apr 1, 2015)

*Assuming it can be repaired*



justdoitviv said:


> after the fiat garage I went to another garage who was highly recommended.
> This garage was expecting a car, and as his drive way up to garage was full I could not get it up. He told me to return Monday. He seemed disinterested because he said he cant repair the van, because its too high for his workshop, but would do the dye test,. and pressure test The dye turned green, was positive, and he wrote on the receipt, gasket head or cylinder head problems.
> 
> Tues, I took it to another recommended garage, who said the dye test was not good for diesel engines. But he would do some tests. Don't know what to make of this garage.!! the receipt says.....Carry out block test and pressure test from cold. NO FAULTS FOUND. .............. Retest when hot. unburnt fuel in water system indicating a cracked cylinder head.
> ...



What a saga !
Suggest you look ahead rather than back..
Forget the money you have spent and see what can be done from now.
A long term reliable repair is needed..
You have outlined the awful prospect of selling and buying !
Selling a vehicle with a problem is not a good prospect
so "justfixitviv" not a joke but a serious suggestion.
Good luck ..Maybe go to Wolverhampton..
Things are cheaper there anyway so you will recoup fuel etc.

PS I have recently spent over £2000 reparing my vehicle (water ingress mainly)


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## Canalsman (Apr 2, 2015)

As a suggestion, because it's tricky finding a reliable garage, have a look at this web site:

Garage/Vehicle Services in Sheerness - Find a trade with Checkatrade.

The first two garages are quite near you and are approved by Kent Trading Standards. Worth a phone call or two perhaps.

Next time you take the vehicle somewhere is it feasible to take a male friend with you, preferably with mechanical knowledge? As Delicagirl found out, this can be a big help ...


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## yorkshire lad (Apr 2, 2015)

*just an idea*

You spent more money on repairs than i have seen in cash, so blank off the egr, first thing we do to landrovers when getting them ready for off roading, as most egr's are for the usa market as they have harder pollution laws, we put a 2 pence where it fits to the manifold as fits them spot on, then contact someone  like u-pull-it for a second hand engine of a motor that has been written off on the side or back so at the time impact the engine was running, they are on intrenet but may have same thing near you but, then get the van to Wolverhampton as i would not go back to your garage and i would trust them more, then not been funny with this but contact DONT GET DONE GET DOM tv program, as this is just what he loves to get his teeth into to get your money back, hate garages that dont know what they are  doing just con people, hope this give you another  option,  good luck:anyone::mad1::goodluck:


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## trevskoda (Apr 2, 2015)

i think it would have been easer to find a right of van somewhere with a good donky and fit it in your wagon,thank goodness i do all my own repairwork prices sounds dounting.


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## baldybloke (Apr 2, 2015)

As the cylinder head supplier has confirmed the head is still under warranty, I would take the van to one of their agents, try to get someone who is reasonably familiar with mechanics to go with you, (the head should not take a long time to remove), then if the head is at fault you won't need to pay for the work. As for the "mechanic" who fitted the head, report the matter to trading standards, if nothing else they may start taking an interest in this individual, IMO he should at least take the time to properly investigate the problem, especially as the finger of suspicion is pointing firmly at his "work".

The garage who told you that dye tends not to work on diesels is correct, as for the oil leak, I think you have found the source of that particular problem!

I am fortunate in having a reasonable understanding of things mechanical, and I suspect you should not have a lot of trouble finding someone to advise you 'in situ' as it is almost impossible to diagnose without actually seeing the fault.


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## Polar Bear (Apr 2, 2015)

justdoitviv said:


> after the fiat garage I went to another garage who was highly recommended.
> This garage was expecting a car, and as his drive way up to garage was full I could not get it up. He told me to return Monday. He seemed disinterested because he said he cant repair the van, because its too high for his workshop, but would do the dye test,. and pressure test The dye turned green, was positive, and he wrote on the receipt, gasket head or cylinder head problems.
> 
> Tues, I took it to another recommended garage, who said the dye test was not good for diesel engines. But he would do some tests. Don't know what to make of this garage.!! the receipt says.....Carry out block test and pressure test from cold. NO FAULTS FOUND. .............. Retest when hot. unburnt fuel in water system indicating a cracked cylinder head.
> ...



Never heard of an "*oil gasket*" where's that hiding?
I would take van to your head suppliers appointed garage and let them fit you a new head under warranty.Tell them you will not pay them for any extra work. If after that you still have a problem bite the bullet and take you van to an 'Engine re-build specialist' [not an ordinary garage] [we have used Mansfield Engine Centre Ltd, engine specialists in Mansfield for for many years] for a full engine rebuild. The problem could be with the block to head mating surfaces not being aligned. The new/recon head would have been skimmed to perfection but the block may be warped and getting worse with heat?


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## blackstone (Apr 2, 2015)

A simple way to check for excess pressure in water system is to get the engine up to working temp then remove cap from radiator or expansion vessel  

then block overflow pipe,and secure a condom where filler cap should be

The condom should not keep continuing to inflate


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## witzend (Apr 2, 2015)

*K Seal Ultimate*



Tbear said:


> Try a bottle of Kseal.
> 
> K-Seal Car Leak Repair: Coolant, Head Gasket & Radiator Sealant
> 
> ...



Why not give it a try


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## Tbear (Apr 2, 2015)

If you are in the C&CC, they have a free legal help line. It was there advise that prompted me to go to court which did get me a little if not all my money back. I was then lucky enough to find a reasonable garage. It may be better to get their advise before committing to expensive repairs or just chucking in the Kseal as once you have attempted a repair may affect your claim.

Richard


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## slowpace (Apr 2, 2015)

is it not on some eng that when timeing belt goes that u should change water pump at same time as of tension is driffent with the new belt on 

 leak under eng could be sump washer not change


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## trevskoda (Apr 2, 2015)

blackstone said:


> A simple way to check for excess pressure in water system is to get the engine up to working temp then remove cap from radiator or expansion vessel
> 
> then block overflow pipe,and secure a condom where filler cap should be
> 
> The condom should not keep continuing to inflate



never ever do this as scalding water can be leathal and further more it causes the engine to get very hot ending up with a smokey donky.
Always let a engine cool for about 15 to 20 mins before removing cap,danger danger danger.:scared:


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## ricc (Apr 3, 2015)

better just putting a plastic water bottle over the end of the overflow pipe.... if the system is pressurising to open the cap , water going out the pipe will be caught in the bottle.   indicating head gasket or crack in head or block.    if theres no water in the bottle its leaking somewhere else....water pump seal or your egr cooler if its got one.  

you need an independant back street garage thats used to working on vans.... forget shiney maindealers or places that normally only do cars.

worst case last resort scenario is get hold of a rusty fiat van with the same engine for hundreds and pay a competant mechanic to swap every thing over....2k tops   a good local independant garage wold even source the donor vehicle for you.


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## blackstone (Apr 3, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> never ever do this as scalding water can be leathal and further more it causes the engine to get very hot ending up with a smokey donky.
> Always let a engine cool for about 15 to 20 mins before removing cap,danger danger danger.:scared:



Yes  you are right of course ,,,I should have made it clear to allow pressure to subside before removing cap, Sorry.   But I thought all drivers would know this.   If they dont,they should not be under bonnet making any sort of tests.

I also forgot to explain what a condom is,,,believe me, I have met 30 yr olds who dont know


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## QFour (Apr 3, 2015)

slowpace said:


> is it not on some eng that when timeing belt goes that u should change water pump at same time as of tension is driffent with the new belt on
> 
> leak under eng could be sump washer not change



Think it's a case of .. If you are spending the money changing the timing belt you may as well do the water pump as well otherwise if it fails you finish up removing the timing belt etc again.

..

I find it hard to believe that so much money has been spent on this engine and it's still not working as it should. So many tests and so many people involved that the poor OP doesn't know where to go next. Time for a plan of some sort rather than just going from garage to garage. It seems impossible to find out which bit has failed or is failing so perhaps a recon engine is the answer. One out of a scrap vehicle could be a possibility but you really don't know if it's any good or not. Think you have to decide how much more you are prepared to spend and find a solution based on that.

Loads of help on here and lots of ideas as to what the fault could or couldn't be. Suggestions regarding reliable garages as well. How much would a recon engine cost and how much to fit it. What guarantee comes with it and who pays to fix it if it's faulty.

..


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## Tbear (Apr 3, 2015)

User1 said:


> Think it's a case of .. If you are spending the money changing the timing belt you may as well do the water pump as well otherwise if it fails you finish up removing the timing belt etc again.
> 
> ..
> 
> ...




Still think its Kseal or legal advise. Too many people/garages involved, the OP needs a big stick to beat them all with. The cost of loosing a court case and then having to pay a different garage to do the job is a pretty big stick.

Richard


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## eddyt (Apr 3, 2015)

to check for pressure build up in the water just take the water filler cap off when its cool
run engine and look in the filler for bubbles appearing in the water. give it about ten minuets
to clear any air locks and if bubbles appear its a knocking bet you have head gasket problems.
go back and show whoever fitted the head.


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## ricc (Apr 5, 2015)

we ran a fourtrak for years with a "blown head gasket" and no thermostat ...on local runs it was fine  a ten mile trip needed a half gallon top up before the return journey.

removing the red cap the morning after a run the previous day you could hear the hiss of releasing pressure


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## Haaamster (Apr 5, 2015)

I have been struggling with the exactly the same problem for a few years now and have a Fiat 1.9 td. 
I've rebuilt the engine twice now and inspected the water pump thoroughly but saw no problem, however I now think David could be right.
Could you say where you got your new pump from please David and how much, the only place I could find was Axel Augustin but it's a German internet site and although it is good I would rather go to a place where I can look at it in my hands to compare.


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## Haaamster (Apr 5, 2015)

Thanks for the info David that looks like mine too at a good price. i'm in the midlands so not too far away. I've tried loads of places for parts where I am and had no luck. Local Fiat  dealers were worse than useless (was told well mate it's 20 years old what do you expect) as were Europarts who can't even find my engine on their list. Many thanks again


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## Haaamster (Apr 6, 2015)

Ah didn't know that 
Just looking at mine there are 2 rubber mounts that are at the top of the arm that look cracked and quite worn so I ill replace these when I do the pump.
Do you think it possible that the wear in these could be partly responsible for pump failures over time or is it more likely purely down to pump age?


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## justdoitviv (May 1, 2015)

*thanks for all advice- temp sorted*



Tbear said:


> Still think its Kseal or legal advise. Too many people/garages involved, the OP needs a big stick to beat them all with. The cost of loosing a court case and then having to pay a different garage to do the job is a pretty big stick.
> 
> Richard



Thanks to all. I went the k seal ultimate route due to finance and time. It has worked so far. Many calls to the tech team to find out how to use it on my engine, with my problem, as its touch and go if it works.  We worked out a different plan to their printed guidlines, and with the use of a garage, it worked.

I will do a new post with instructions

thanks to all........... hope im not back too soon with the same problem.
viv


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## Tbear (May 1, 2015)

Fingers crossed!
I know not always but sometimes the most straight forward, simplest and easiest answer to a problem can give the best results.

Richard


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## jagmanx (May 1, 2015)

*Really pleased*



justdoitviv said:


> Thanks to all. I went the k seal ultimate route due to finance and time. It has worked so far. Many calls to the tech team to find out how to use it on my engine, with my problem, as its touch and go if it works.  We worked out a different plan to their printed guidlines, and with the use of a garage, it worked.
> 
> I will do a new post with instructions
> 
> ...



That you have got it sorted..Permanently I hope even if you need repeated doses of the k-seal

Best wishes

Phil


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## Donnie (May 1, 2015)

*C/head ??????.?.*

Hi  sorry to hear about your troubles, this is similar to a works van I had a few years back. Only when driving fast  ie. On the motorway engin temp. rise put on the heater temp. Comes down, if left to long there was lo water loss.  After two c/head re-grinds and gasgets one chap examined the radiator look he said, and ran his finger up the rad. the copper  segments all fell out like dust, they were oxidised and no longer conducted heat     Had the radiator re-conditioned no more problems.    The reason putting on the heater brought down the temp. it was acting as the engin radiator. 

Best of luck. DONNIE


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## Squeegee (Jun 9, 2015)

*How is it doing Viv?*

I have just spent a good half hour reading this thread and see that Viv said she had used the sealant. I am now wondering if it has done the trick. Sheer curiosity on my part.

David


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## justdoitviv (Jun 11, 2015)

Squeegee said:


> I have just spent a good half hour reading this thread and see that Viv said she had used the sealant. I am now wondering if it has done the trick. Sheer curiosity on my part.
> 
> David



Hi David...........im  pretty sure I posted that it had worked, and was doing another thread, stating how I did it, as there had to be some adjustments to the instructions. But I also used a garage to do it for me. Before hand they checked the torque or something, which was not correct, had a flush just incase there was a blockage, then had the stuff added directly to radiator, and then followed the instructions for I think 20 min, then drove on motor way, slowly increasing engine temp.  I didn't leave it to idle at normal temp, as I only lost water when the temp got to 70 or 80 degrees. 

So not sure if it was a torque probem, a blockage, or what........... but its fixed. And that was after I cant remember how many months and how many garage visits, but I went to about 5 garages in quick succession, cause I just couldn't believe or accept id need all the work redone. I was flat broke from the work I had done the year before. So I didn't really have much option than to try the sealant............ sure glad I did else I wouldn't be siting here in the van right now with a splendid sea view.


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## trevskoda (Jun 11, 2015)

make sure you have a 50/50 antifreeze mix to stop corrosion all year round ,it also keeps the temp down to.


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## justdoitviv (Jun 27, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> make sure you have a 50/50 antifreeze mix to stop corrosion all year round ,it also keeps the temp down to.


 not sure what the antifreeze mix is........but I did supply 12 bottles of the already mixed stuff along with the sealant. I never did have a temp problem. I had the reverse. I couldn't get the temp to go over 70 or 80 cause I wasn't travelling far enough on the motor way, hence I wasn't sure if the fans kicked in. The garage had to manually bring the temp up, to hear the fans kick in........I can here them now though cause its summer.....


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## Tbear (Jun 27, 2015)

Hi Viv,

I don't know much about the new versions of Kseal but I'm pretty sure Trev is correct. Once the Kseal has done its magic its work is done, then you have to care for a slightly less than perfect engine so things like the antifreeze, oil and filter changes, not thrashing it, become even more important than before. Think of it as giving your engine a little TLC.

Richard


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## willdbill (Jun 27, 2015)

glad your sorted I Kseald a old fiat for years ago with a leaking head I drove it for a full year without any problems sold it it has ben to Benidorm  france 
and is still going strong for years on with the present owners 
I also put a engine additive in to take away engine nose Frome bottom end 
I did tell them what I had done 
there answer get good brake down cover they have never put a spanner near it 
bill


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## Tbear (Jun 28, 2015)

That took me back a bit. I don't think I have heard that trick since I was at school.  That was back in the days when you learned about the real world not the internet and the cloud.

Richard


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## trevskoda (Jun 28, 2015)

Tbear said:


> That took me back a bit. I don't think I have heard that trick since I was at school.  That was back in the days when you learned about the real world not the internet and the cloud.
> 
> Richard



did not work in engine as oil filter blocked,but in g/box and diff worked well.
used in british cars as most were all crap and were knackered at about 30000 miles where as jap and german stuff lasted a long time.


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## Tbear (Jun 28, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> did not work in engine as oil filter blocked,but in g/box and diff worked well.
> used in british cars as most were all crap and were knackered at about 30000 miles where as jap and german stuff lasted a long time.



I bow to the man of superior experience. 

Richard


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## trevskoda (Jun 28, 2015)

Tbear said:


> I bow to the man of superior experience.
> 
> Richard



just common sence,but i and am sure others do remember the old days when a tow or push start was common,all the ford owners round us had to wate till the milk man came round to tow start there rattly old s--t and frozen up cars was common.
a old trick was to pour boiling water over the inlet manafold then the buggers would start.


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## Tbear (Jun 28, 2015)

trevskoda said:


> just common sence,but i and am sure others do remember the old days when a tow or push start was common,all the ford owners round us had to wate till the milk man came round to tow start there rattly old s--t and frozen up cars was common.
> a old trick was to pour boiling water over the inlet manafold then the buggers would start.



I remember my old Cortina used to cut out every time I went through a deep puddle. Just had to sit there and wait for the heat from the engine to dry it out before it would restart. Luckily, it never happened on the motorway.

Richard


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## Tbear (Jun 28, 2015)

They sold a latex spray that you could fill all the cracks and seal all the plug lead joints with. It used to last for at least a day or two. 

Richard


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## noties (Jun 28, 2015)

Tbear said:


> I remember my old Cortina used to cut out every time I went through a deep puddle. Just had to sit there and wait for the heat from the engine to dry it out before it would restart. Luckily, it never happened on the motorway.
> 
> Richard


I had this problem a number of times on Ford Anglias & Cortinas and was usually caused by damaged distributor cap allowing shorting in damp conditions. In the dark you could see the sparks tracking across the outside of the cap.


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## vwalan (Jun 28, 2015)

damp start was the spray that was sold back then . 



mind if you cut the plug leads and joined them back with see through plastic tube leaving a gap between the joins it made a lovely light show . 
also was supposed to increase the spark. 
this was a favourite trick just for fun.


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## Tbear (Jun 28, 2015)

vwalan said:


> *damp start was the spray that was sold back then* .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now its just used to gas people with in France.  Well we haven't done it for a week or two. 

Richard


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## vwalan (Jun 28, 2015)

no dampstart isnt easy start . wake up. 
i can remember the crap leads and caps . yet if you said go and get some new leads /dizzy cap etc folk thought you were daft . just kept spraying their leads etc . 
mind i never liked the silicone leads they started to sell in the 80,s or them was it orange hot wires . 
i still think good quality copper core are the best. 
but dont worry with gassing some got away with it and lived . mind they walk around as if gassed most of their lives .


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## Tbear (Jun 28, 2015)

vwalan said:


> no dampstart isnt easy start . wake up.
> i can remember the crap leads and caps . yet if you said go and get some new leads /dizzy cap etc folk thought you were daft . just kept spraying their leads etc .
> mind i never liked the silicone leads they started to sell in the 80,s or them was it orange hot wires .
> i still think good quality copper core are the best.
> but dont worry with gassing some got away with it and lived . mind they walk around as if gassed most of their lives .



Sorry Alan. Must have spent too long inhaling the vapours my self. You are correct, that's the rubbish that used to last for about two days if you managed to apply it perfectly to all affected areas.

Richard


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## vwalan (Jun 28, 2015)

Tbear said:


> Sorry Alan. Must have spent too long inhaling the vapours my self. You are correct, that's the rubbish that used to last for about two days if you managed to apply it perfectly to all affected areas.
> 
> Richard



thats why i said wake up . thought you had been gassed with the easy start. ha ha . 
one of the reasons i got into vw,s was they just about almost started in summer or winter. 
mind theu used to have a bush in the bell housing that was for the starter . that used to wear and then the starter just clicked but didnt start. 
pound for a bush and i could remove and fit the new bush for a tenner . ideal most wanted to take engine out to do it . i was lucky my uncle had a vw garage when i was a kid . i learnt fast. 
managed to get lots of vw special tools . with the right tools life can be good . 
i do miss working on the old aircooled .


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## trevskoda (Jun 28, 2015)

problem with the ford was the old type starters because they were weak and turned to slow ,also they did not have a dropper resister on the coils,again the japs sorted all that out leading to the fall of the british car industry.
you would have thought they would have learned after watching the m/bike industry fail.


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## vwalan (Jun 28, 2015)

the car industry was failing in the 50,s thats why austin and morris got together to form bmc . standard etc all joined up in another group. they really had failed by the time toyota brought their vehicles over . crown custom i believe .or waas it the corona . i remember sitting in one in my uncles garage and them saying this was the car of the future now. 
his mate sold them . my uncle sold vw,s .


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## maingate (Jun 29, 2015)

vwalan said:


> the car industry was failing in the 50,s thats why austin and morris got together to form bmc . standard etc all joined up in another group. they really had failed by the time toyota brought their vehicles over . crown custom i believe .or waas it the corona . i remember sitting in one in my uncles garage and them saying this was the car of the future now.
> his mate sold them . my uncle sold vw,s .



When you lifted the bonnet on those first Japanese models, the engines looked very familiar.


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## trevskoda (Jun 29, 2015)

vwalan said:


> the car industry was failing in the 50,s thats why austin and morris got together to form bmc . standard etc all joined up in another group. they really had failed by the time toyota brought their vehicles over . crown custom i believe .or waas it the corona . i remember sitting in one in my uncles garage and them saying this was the car of the future now.
> his mate sold them . my uncle sold vw,s .



it was the 1500 corona ,we had a early one where i worked in the show room and it was over 3 times round the clock,the engine was uped tp 1600 and fitted to the first hiace vans.


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## Byronic (Jun 29, 2015)

At least twice a year I race over part of the Le mans circuit, in my old design motorhome. The Mulsanne straight holds no fear, I speed up going through Mulsanne itself to the 50kmph limit. Always finished so far. Tremendous achievement really by my standards!


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## trevskoda (Jun 29, 2015)

during ww2 the yanks got hold of a slightly damaged zero fighter in which the pilot overturned on landing breaking his neck and slight ruder damage.
when repared and flight tested they could not beleave that there was no oil leaks around the engine and how well it was made.
we lost all our industry because of slapdash work poor management & lazy workers who thought the world now owed them a living.


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## Haaamster (Jul 13, 2015)

Right got me new pump this morning from Coastal Motorhomes excellent service and free delivery on time 
(thanks David for the recommendation) 2 hours later had the old one off and lining up the new one. 4 hours of wiggly wiggly and I still can't line up 2 last bolts, rain, dark clouds more rain pissed off covered in oil came in sulking leaving the engine still on a jack till tomorrow. If someone nicks my trolley jack in the night i'm going huntin tomorrow :mad1:


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## Haaamster (Jul 14, 2015)

Was out there again at 5.30 managed to get top 3 bolts in but can't locate the thread of the other 2 bottom holes and now more rain. It's gonna have to come out again :mad1::mad1::mad1::mad1::mad1:


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## Haaamster (Jul 14, 2015)

Woohoo got it a done :banana: Yeah compared the 2 side by side took a lot more wiggly wiggly and lots of ouch bugger but it's in without any leaks.  I'm in gloomy Coventry David, thanks again for the advice :wave:


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