# Blind Spot Signalling Device



## QFour (Jan 2, 2021)

Looks like all goods and passenger vehicles over 3.5T will need some new signage added. I like the words signalling device. Why don't they just write stickers to warn cyclists etc. Reading the blurb on the internet looks like you need them on the back and on the sides. Don't forget you may need the GB Sticker as well. French will pull you over for just about anything if they want to make a point.



> _Heavy goods vehicles: installation of a blind spot signaling device
> Posted on December 03, 2020 -
> Directorate of legal and administrative information (Prime Minister) Illustration 1 Credits: © Road Safety Illustration 1
> Bikes, two-wheelers, motorcycles, scooters, scooters, hoverboards, gyropods, monowheels ... are always less visible than a car. With their smaller size, they are often placed in the blind spots of heavy goods vehicles (trucks, buses, coaches, etc.). In order to strengthen the protection of vulnerable users traveling on public roads, a blind spot signaling device must be installed on heavy vehicles from January 1, 2021. Provided for by the mobility orientation law of December 2019, it has just been implemented. 'be decided by a decree published in the Official Journal on November 19, 2020. Vehicles over 3.5 tonnes (goods transport vehicles and passenger transport vehicles) must be fitted with signage showing the position of blind spots as of January 1, 2021._
> ...


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## TeamRienza (Jan 2, 2021)

This has popped up on one or two forums, although there seems to be no clear instruction on Motorhome status over 3500kg. I am going to wait and see how it develops. As things stand it could be September before I need to take more heed of this decree.

Davy


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## yeoblade (Jan 2, 2021)

QFour said:


> Looks like all goods and passenger vehicles over 3.5T will need some new signage added. I like the words signalling device. Why don't they just write stickers to warn cyclists etc. Reading the blurb on the internet looks like you need them on the back and on the sides. Don't forget you may need the GB Sticker as well. French will pull you over for just about anything if they want to make a point.


That's a fantastic idea, Gov. as we all know signs are always more useful than common sense, I will pay a lot more attention next time a truck cuts me up on my bike, to check the signage is up to date. sar


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## Snapster (Jan 2, 2021)

Apparently the government haven’t finalised the details about exactly where the stickers need to be displayed and if motor homes are included. This should be released later this year.


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## TJBi (Jan 3, 2021)

Snapster said:


> Apparently the government haven’t finalised the details about exactly where the stickers need to be displayed and if motor homes are included. This should be released later this year.


The new article in the Code de la Route appears to be pretty clear; there is no exemption for motorhomes.
« Art. R. 313-32-1.-A l'exception des véhicules agricoles et forestiers, d'une part, et des engins de service hivernal et des véhicules d'intervention des services gestionnaires des autoroutes ou routes à deux chaussées séparées tels que définis respectivement aux points 5,6.1 et 6.6 de l'article R. 311-1 du présent code, d'autre part, les véhicules dont le poids total autorisé en charge excède 3,5 tonnes doivent porter, visible sur les côtés ainsi qu'à l'arrière du véhicule, une signalisation matérialisant la position des angles morts.
Le modèle de la signalisation et ses modalités d'apposition sont fixés par arrêté conjoint du ministre chargé des transports et du ministre chargé de la sécurité routière.
Le fait, pour tout conducteur, de contrevenir à l'obligation de signalisation imposée par le présent article et aux dispositions prises pour son application est puni de l'amende prévue pour les contraventions de la quatrième classe. » 
This came into effect on 01/01/2021.


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## GeoffL (Jan 4, 2021)

Snapster said:


> Apparently the government haven’t finalised the details about exactly where the stickers need to be displayed and if motor homes are included. This should be released later this year.





TJBi said:


> The new article in the Code de la Route appears to be pretty clear; there is no exemption for motorhomes.
> [... _article in French ..._]
> This came into effect on 01/01/2021.


I just ran that piece through Google Translate and all it says is that signage is required and that you will be fined for not having it. However, it doesn't say what signage, which colours, what symbols, what size, etc., etc. is required. It doesn't even say whether the "blind spot signalling device" must be signage or some form of optics; or whether this is to be retrospectively fitted to which existing vehicles. There's another issue for those of us who have bike racks on the back as any signs will be obscured when bikes are carried. Yet another issue for me is that the blind spots on my van are away from the sides -- so a cyclist right next to the van won't be in one but someone 2 metres away just behind the nearside B pillar will be. There are no blind spots right next to the van unless I have bikes on the back, when the rear-view camera doesn't cover a couple of metres behind the van.

(rant warning) To me, this seems yet another work around -- a piece of "Elastoplast" -- for the lack of common sense in some 'more vulnerable' road users. I hate to say it, but a lot of cyclists don't know how to use the road safely. I'm not anti-cyclist -- far from it. Until recently I was a member of the CTC and have thousands of cycle touring miles under my wheels. However, some of the reports over on the CTC forum made me cringe as member after member reported putting themselves in harms way and then blaming everyone else. I don't think these measures will work any more than the current crop of "if you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you", "cyclists, do not pass on left", etc. signs that cyclists and motorcyclists seem to routinely ignore. Worse, I suspect that some drivers will imagine the required signalling devices will magically keep cyclists out of their blind spots -- which would be counter-productive. (rant over)


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## QFour (Jan 4, 2021)

GeoffL said:


> I just ran that piece through Google Translate and all it says is that signage is required and that you will be fined for not having it. However, it doesn't say what signage, which colours, what symbols, what size, etc., etc. is required. It doesn't even say whether the "blind spot signalling device" must be signage or some form of optics; or whether this is to be retrospectively fitted to which existing vehicles. There's another issue for those of us who have bike racks on the back as any signs will be obscured when bikes are carried. Yet another issue for me is that the blind spots on my van are away from the sides -- so a cyclist right next to the van won't be in one but someone 2 metres away just behind the nearside B pillar will be. There are no blind spots right next to the van unless I have bikes on the back, when the rear-view camera doesn't cover a couple of metres behind the van.
> 
> (rant warning) To me, this seems yet another work around -- a piece of "Elastoplast" -- for the lack of common sense in some 'more vulnerable' road users. I hate to say it, but a lot of cyclists don't know how to use the road safely. I'm not anti-cyclist -- far from it. Until recently I was a member of the CTC and have thousands of cycle touring miles under my wheels. However, some of the reports over on the CTC forum made me cringe as member after member reported putting themselves in harms way and then blaming everyone else. I don't think these measures will work any more than the current crop of "if you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you", "cyclists, do not pass on left", etc. signs that cyclists and motorcyclists seem to routinely ignore. Worse, I suspect that some drivers will imagine the required signalling devices will magically keep cyclists out of their blind spots -- which would be counter-productive. (rant over)



Typical French .. Keep everyone in the dark and then they can start handing out the fines. Be interesting to see if they still have access to DVLA database to track down owners. Next thing you know it will be a camera that takes a picture and then assesses if the sticker is in the right place. More laws, more rules


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## Snapster (Jan 4, 2021)

I partly agree.  I don’t think that the stickers will be useful either or necessary, cyclists and motorcyclists are generally intent on getting past anything slower than them by any means available, whether it is safe or not. 
And, yes, the latest trade agreement eventually signed by Boris states that the DVLA database will be available to foreign authorities. 
And again, yes ( or probably) the new generation of speed cameras in France can be programmed to look out for all sorts of things, speeding, tailgating, seat belt wearing, and mobile phone holding so, it’s safe to assume they could also be on the lookout for the Angles Morts stickers. But, as they are only a few € to buy and simple to stick on, that shouldn’t be a problem. 

I found this image of a motorhome with the side stickers in the correct place. The rear sticker will need to be placed at a similar height on the kerb side in France. 






And this video shows their placement on larger vehicles.


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## GeoffL (Jan 4, 2021)

Snapster said:


> [...]
> I found this image of a motorhome with the side stickers in the correct place. The rear sticker will need to be placed at a similar height on the kerb side in France.
> [...]


In the video you posted, cars and buses only need a sticker on the offside (LHS in France) and no rear sticker is shown. Presumably, 'camping cars' fall under this category and so those of us who have bike racks need not fret. Presumably, we'll need one on the right-hand side in English and those who cross the channel will also need one in the official language of every country they visit?


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## Snapster (Jan 4, 2021)

GeoffL said:


> In the video you posted, cars and buses only need a sticker on the offside (LHS in France) and no rear sticker is shown. Presumably, 'camping cars' fall under this category and so those of us who have bike racks need not fret. Presumably, we'll need one on the right-hand side in English and those who cross the channel will also need one in the official language of every country they visit?


A minimum of three stickers are needed on all vehicles shown in the video ( the exceptions are lorries with trailers) On the bus section, it states stickers are required both sides and on the rear to the right of the centre line.  ( it’s in French) Motorhomes over 3.5 tonnes in France are classed as Heavy Vehicles and according to the government list, are not exempt from the stickers. This may change in the future, or it may not. 
As the stickers are only required in France at the moment, there is no requirement to have them displayed while in the UK or in any other languages.


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## GeoffL (Jan 4, 2021)

Ah! I thought that this has been made law in UK also. So I don't need them in UK and just need to work out how to display one at the rear the next time we cross the channel since we always take bikes, which will obscure anything on the back between 900mm and 1.5m off the ground. ATM magnetic ones for the cab doors would be my choice and I suppose I'll have to fit a second pocket to the bike cover to carry one alongside the red/white diagonal striped board already in its own pocket.


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## Herman (Jan 4, 2021)

They've put hoverboards in just incase Marty McFly is hanging on to your rear bumper.


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## TJBi (Jan 5, 2021)

GeoffL said:


> In the video you posted, cars and buses only need a sticker on the offside (LHS in France) and no rear sticker is shown. Presumably, 'camping cars' fall under this category and so those of us who have bike racks need not fret. Presumably, we'll need one on the right-hand side in English and those who cross the channel will also need one in the official language of every country they visit?


When you say "cars and buses", this is in fact coaches and buses.


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