# Electric Bikes



## witzend (Sep 16, 2022)

Walking around French Supermarkets I,ve noticed Electric Bikes at what seem compared to UK prices very reasonable prices 500€ I understand their probably the lower end of the market but has anyone any knowledge of them


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## V1nny (Sep 16, 2022)

I noticed that when we were in France over 3 years ago. The cost of electric bikes in the supermarkets even then, was a fraction of what we get charged here.


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## Sharon the Cat (Sep 16, 2022)

You might be lucky and buy one with a throttle too. I got a cheapo one off the web, which if you buy elsewhere in Europe comes with a throttle fitted so you don't even have to pedal!


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## r4dent (Sep 16, 2022)

Sharon the Cat said:


> You might be lucky and buy one with a throttle too. I got a cheapo one off the web, which if you buy elsewhere in Europe comes with a throttle fitted so you don't even have to pedal!



and of course you will never ever use this on public roads will you.


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## Sharon the Cat (Sep 16, 2022)

r4dent said:


> and of course you will never ever use this on public roads will you.


Unfortunately mine came without. I think in the past they came with the throttle in the box but not connected. If mine had come with one I would not have connected it and used it on UK roads, your honour.


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## mark61 (Sep 16, 2022)

Theres a fair few around the £500 mark. Both legal and not road legal. Unless you register them I suppose.


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## Moped (Sep 16, 2022)

When visiting larger French supermarkets that sell ebikes I must admit I do look out of curiosity. I wouldn’t touch anything with a front wheel hub motor or calliper brakes. Has to be rear hub motor and front disc brake as a minimum and preferably disc brakes all round. These don’t start at €500.

Front hub motor lacks grip in the wet, on inclines or loose gravel surfaces.

As ebikes will help you go a bit quicker calliper brakes won’t stop you as quickly and are hopeless in the wet. In addition they wear the wheel rim out in no time (extra weight so more force required to stop so more rim wear) so you will be forking out for rim replacements every 10000 miles or so. Disc brakes don’t have any of these problems.

If you are a very slow fair weather cyclist and stay on the flat on tarmac or whatever surface cycle lanes have then the cheap French bikes will do a job. You will get assistance when you accelerate from standstill and in a headwind.

If you are a fast all weather cyclist going up and down hill on a variety of surfaces then best to pass and spend a bit more. My ebike is now 7 years old and still going strong but it has had parts and a battery replaced over the years. I do a lot of miles and the planetoid gears in the hub motor failed after about 15000 miles as they simply wore out. Battery replaced after 4.5 years. Now on my 3rd chain. Rear rim replaced as it collapsed caused by calliper brake wear. (Later versions of the same bike now have rear disc brakes fitted). Cassette gears and rear derailleur replaced. It’s handy to have a U.K. sourced bike for replacement parts. But as I said I do a lot of miles maybe 25000 to 30000 in the 7 years.

To be honest though if you do a lot of miles on a standard bike much of what has been replaced on my ebike would have had to have been replaced on a standard pedal bike.


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## mark61 (Sep 16, 2022)

Moped said:


> When visiting larger French supermarkets that sell ebikes I must admit I do look out of curiosity. I wouldn’t touch anything with a front wheel hub motor or calliper brakes. Has to be rear hub motor and front disc brake as a minimum and preferably disc brakes all round. These don’t start at €500.
> 
> Front hub motor lacks grip in the wet, on inclines or loose gravel surfaces.
> 
> ...


Why rear hub?
Seems a lot of reasonably to top end spec bikes have a motor in the centre, although the very high spec Stromer does have a rear hub motor.


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## r4dent (Sep 16, 2022)

All depends what you want an e bike for.

At 70+ with heart & lung issues I use my folding e bike for going to the shops or a short trip into wherever I'm parked up.

Longest trip so far was a round trip of 15 miles.

Cost about £300 and does what I need it to.

Different stokes for different folks.


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## Obanboy666 (Sep 16, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Why rear hub?
> Seems a lot of reasonably to top end spec bikes have a motor in the centre, although the very high spec Stromer does have a rear hub motor.


You are correct, mid drive motors are the way to go.
Most if not all high spec ebikes are mid drive. Both my Kalkhoff and Specialized are mid drive and perform brilliantly.
The Specialized I recently bought of a friend, hardly used as he decided he wanted an ebike bike with more power. It has a 320watt battery built into the tube and most people don’t believe it’s an ebike. being lightweight it’s easy to pedal without the motor switched on.








						Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 EQ
					

Specialized Turbo Vado SL 4.0 EQ in Smoke / Black Reflective



					www.specializedconceptstore.co.uk


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## mark61 (Sep 16, 2022)

Obanboy666 said:


> You are correct, mid drive motors are the way to go.
> Most if not all high spec ebikes are mid drive. Both my Kalkhoff and Specialized are mid drive and perform brilliantly.
> The Specialized I recently bought of a friend, hardly used as he decided he wanted an ebike bike with more power. It has a 320watt battery built into the tube and most people don’t believe it’s an ebike. being lightweight it’s easy to pedal without the motor switched on.
> 
> ...


Both Kalkhoff and Specialized were in my top choices. Went for a Riese & Muller in the end, just cause I wanted a bike that sounds like a German rice pudding.   
Delivery early Oct, can't wait.


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## colinm (Sep 16, 2022)

I've done many thousands of miles on ebikes over the years. First got one due to my hip problems, a hub drive, was pretty good but with 'full size' wheels on extreme uphills there was always the possibility of stalling the motor, not such a problem if it has small wheels(or good hips). Had to change it for a trapeze frame when my hip got worse, so got a crank/centre drive, whilst it was about £1000 pound more it was well worth the money, even before my hip operation I'd been known to pull a wheelie when belting it up a steep offroad hill. I've got through a couple of chains, so I think maybe I give it too much power on higher gears sometimes, but chains are a easy cheap part.
Couple of friends have 'rice puddings' (must remember to tell them that one), they love theirs.


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## Moped (Sep 16, 2022)

Crank drive motors are more expensive by a fair mark up relative to rear hub drive. 

They are a must have for serious mountain biking as they offer more control at very slow speeds and don’t give you the    kick forward that hub drives do which can be disconcerting if attempting a tricky black course obstacle. 

But for general road use for those on a budget rear hub drives are fine and reliable. After all there are tens of million hub drive cyclists in China!


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## Moped (Sep 16, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Why rear hub?
> Seems a lot of reasonably to top end spec bikes have a motor in the centre, although the very high spec Stromer does have a rear hub motor.


The opening post was looking for comments relating to a €500 French ebike.

Budget bikes won’t have a crank drive. So whilst chat about crank drives can be interesting is it relevant for those looking for a starter budget ebike?


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## mark61 (Sep 16, 2022)

Moped said:


> The opening post was looking for comments relating to a €500 French ebike.
> 
> Budget bikes won’t have a crank drive. So whilst chat about crank drives can be interesting is it relevant for those looking for a starter budget ebike?


All good, completely understand now.

The  "Has to be rear hub motor" is in context of budget.


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## Moped (Sep 16, 2022)

If you want a French bike then Decathlon in the U.K. would be a good start. They do a crank centre drive mountain bike for around £1600 with hub ebikes starting from around £650.

If you are in France then a trip to a French Decathlon might be interesting. Prices very similar to the U.K. taking exchange rates into account. However now that we have left the EU you might even get a tax free purchase but then you have to pay import duties when you declare it as you pass through British customs.

Something to consider if purchasing a French ebike.


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## Glandwr (Sep 16, 2022)

What makes them even cheaper is that you can claim nearly a the French VAT back if you bring it back here within 3 months.  Easy apps for it now.


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## witzend (Sep 16, 2022)

Moped said:


> The opening post was looking for comments relating to a €500 French ebike.
> 
> Budget bikes won’t have a crank drive. So whilst chat about crank drives can be interesting is it relevant for those looking for a starter budget ebike?


From reading the answers here tonite. What I,ve seen where rear hub drive  with caliper brakes with what I assume is a thumb operated throttle


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## witzend (Sep 16, 2022)

Moped said:


> When visiting larger French supermarkets that sell ebikes I must admit I do look out of curiosity. I wouldn’t touch anything with a front wheel hub motor or calliper brakes
> If you are a very slow fair weather cyclist and stay on the flat on tarmac or whatever surface cycle lanes have then the cheap French bikes will do a job.


Well I wasn,t thinking of using it in the wet only when away with the van now walkings getting a bit difficult I don,t know if I,d ever wear out wheels An if when at home I,ve  motorbike if I want to go faster


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## shortcircuit (Sep 16, 2022)

On one of my earlier trips tp Spain we stopped in camping Javea.  I cant walk that far so we got down to the sea front and thought, Oh well, not much here.  Next time we were there I had a Tesco electric bike and went exploring a bit and could not believe what we had missed out on.  An active fishing village with numerous pubs resturants etc.  The ebike has been a boon to me as it has given me a lot of freedom.
The Tesco bike has now been replaced with a DIY crank drive mountain bike conversion with a considerably greater range.


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## trevskoda (Sep 16, 2022)

Sharon the Cat said:


> You might be lucky and buy one with a throttle too. I got a cheapo one off the web, which if you buy elsewhere in Europe comes with a throttle fitted so you don't even have to pedal!


Not rd legal here.
Anyway at the silly prices on here I would be looking a good m bike or a car, our dump is full of electric bikes bought for kids at xmas and dumped by late summer when they wrecked or puntured.


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## witzend (Sep 17, 2022)

With this in mind where do you get insurance for third party cover / public liability if involed in a accident would not like to have to foot the bill personaly


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## dunfillin (Sep 17, 2022)

witzend said:


> With this in mind where do you get insurance for third party cover / public liability if involed in a accident would not like to have to foot the bill personaly


You're in no different a position wrt insurance on a legal electrically assisted bike as on a standard non assisted one - you should really have some sort of third party liability for both.
 As far as " "illegal" electric bikes as concerned, that may be another matter


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## trevskoda (Sep 17, 2022)

dunfillin said:


> You're in no different a position wrt insurance on a legal electrically assisted bike as on a standard non assisted one - you should really have some sort of third party liability for both.
> As far as " "illegal" electric bikes as concerned, that may be another matter


Your home ins will cover a legal type approved cycle, no mission for a high output blow in from winwangyoung.


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## Tezza33 (Sep 17, 2022)

witzend said:


> With this in mind where do you get insurance for third party cover / public liability if involed in a accident would not like to have to foot the bill personaly


Direct Line have a policy for cyclists public liability, it is less than £14 per year








						Specialist Cycling Insurance - Direct Line
					

Insure your mountain bike, road bike or e-bike. At home, abroad or while you're racing, off-roading or commuting. Get a quote today from Direct Line.




					www.directline.com
				



You can tailor it to suit your needs, I just got a quote for cycling only and it surprised me how cheap it was


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## GeoffL (Sep 17, 2022)

Sharon the Cat said:


> You might be lucky and buy one with a throttle too. I got a cheapo one off the web, which if you buy elsewhere in Europe comes with a throttle fitted so you don't even have to pedal!





r4dent said:


> and of course you will never ever use this on public roads will you.


AIUI, you can have a throttle that assists you in getting going and can also be used to power the bike while going up hills. However, while the electric assistance on the bike must not be active while pedalling over 25 kph, IIRC the throttle must not be operable over 6 kph (i.e. walking speed). However, that might be out-of-date info and probably best take a wander over to pedelecs.co.uk or similar for the latest.


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## trevskoda (Sep 17, 2022)

GeoffL said:


> AIUI, you can have a throttle that assists you in getting going and can also be used to power the bike while going up hills. However, while the electric assistance on the bike must not be active while pedalling over 25 kph, IIRC the throttle must not be operable over 6 kph (i.e. walking speed). However, that might be out-of-date info and probably best take a wander over to pedelecs.co.uk or similar for the latest.


Nop only pedal assist unless the old 200w motor which had a throttle and is exempt.


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## Moped (Sep 17, 2022)

witzend said:


> Walking around French Supermarkets I,ve noticed Electric Bikes at what seem compared to UK prices very reasonable prices 500€ I understand their probably the lower end of the market but has anyone any knowledge of them


French VAT on bikes appears to be 10% after an EU directive permitting bikes to be VAT exempt. It is up to individual EU countries to set the rates.

So a French bike purchase by non EU citizen on a tax free basis will reduce the advertised price by 9.1%.

But then you have to pay 20% VAT when you declare the bike as you pass through U.K. customs.

This would partly explain why French bikes appear cheaper.

Also the French government will give you up to €4000 if you trade in your car (or motorhome) for an ebike!

And some departments in France will give you €500 towards an ebike purchase.

So bike sales in France are booming as as they manufacture more than in the U.K. unit costs are lower.

I visited Carrefour today and checked out their ebikes. I would have no problem with any of their rear hub bikes which was all of them but would prefer to pay for one of the slightly more expensive normal sized ones with cantilever brakes. But they also did a decent folding bike with small wheels and disc brakes at both ends.

They started though from €599 so the €500 example must have been at a different supermarket.

Remember though the charger will have a 2 pin continental plug fitted.


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## GeoffL (Sep 17, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Nop only pedal assist unless the old 200w motor which had a throttle and is exempt.


While that might apply in NI and/or Eire, AFAICT for the rest of UK the EAPC regs that came into affect in 2016 permit use of a throttle without pedalling up to 6 km/h. Above that, the throttle can only provide assistance when being pedalled. From Cycling Weekly:

THE THROTTLE ‘DILEMMA’​Harmonisation with EU law has had an important effect on electric bikes with ‘twist and go’ throttles that can take the bike to full speed without any pedalling at all.​​From January 1 2016, the only throttles legal within the UK’s EAPC legislation are those that assist the rider without pedalling up to a maximum speed of 6 km/h (3.7 mph) – i.e. starting assistance only.​​If the rider is rolling – but not pedalling – faster than 6km/h, the throttle cuts off. If the cyclist pedals at the same time then the throttle can still assist up to the general limit of 15.5mph.​​If you bought an ebike with a full-speed throttle before January 1 2016, don’t panic: those sold prior to this date are still considered as EAPC and do not require a registration or taxed. Practically, you could still buy one a ‘twist and go’ and not be fined, but it would have to have been produced or imported before January 1.​​


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## witzend (Sep 17, 2022)

Moped said:


> I visited Carrefour today and checked out their ebikes. I would have no problem with any of their rear hub bikes which was all of them


Thanks


Moped said:


> They started though from €599 so the €500 example must have been at a different supermarket


Was Super U at € 493 last week solid looking bikes. Can,t see I,ll ever wear it out as just be used when away with MH an that,ll always be in EU to save space I,d been considering a elec scooter I even tried one and was impressed with that but swmbo wasn,t so looking at bikes now but not this trip next year now


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## mistericeman (Sep 17, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Why rear hub?
> Seems a lot of reasonably to top end spec bikes have a motor in the centre, although the very high spec Stromer does have a rear hub motor.


A lot of mid drives need a lot more looking after compared to hub drives ....

as in lots of areas there are cheap and there are quality ...

cheap is very often cheap for a reason


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## trevskoda (Sep 17, 2022)

GeoffL said:


> While that might apply in NI and/or Eire, AFAICT for the rest of UK the EAPC regs that came into affect in 2016 permit use of a throttle without pedalling up to 6 km/h. Above that, the throttle can only provide assistance when being pedalled. From Cycling Weekly:
> 
> THE THROTTLE ‘DILEMMA’​Harmonisation with EU law has had an important effect on electric bikes with ‘twist and go’ throttles that can take the bike to full speed without any pedalling at all.​​From January 1 2016, the only throttles legal within the UK’s EAPC legislation are those that assist the rider without pedalling up to a maximum speed of 6 km/h (3.7 mph) – i.e. starting assistance only.​​If the rider is rolling – but not pedalling – faster than 6km/h, the throttle cuts off. If the cyclist pedals at the same time then the throttle can still assist up to the general limit of 15.5mph.​​If you bought an ebike with a full-speed throttle before January 1 2016, don’t panic: those sold prior to this date are still considered as EAPC and do not require a registration or taxed. Practically, you could still buy one a ‘twist and go’ and not be fined, but it would have to have been produced or imported before January 1.​​


Those are English rules not Irish north or south, and as it stated older 200w with the throttle is ok, mind you I do think it time a across the board rullng was made more clear to Joe public.


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## RSD7a (Sep 19, 2022)

witzend said:


> Thanks
> 
> Was Super U at € 493 last week solid looking bikes. Can,t see I,ll ever wear it out as just be used when away with MH an that,ll always be in EU to save space I,d been considering a elec scooter I even tried one and was impressed with that but swmbo wasn,t so looking at bikes now but not this trip next year now


Curious to know which electric scooter (s) were in the frame?


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## witzend (Sep 19, 2022)

RSD7a said:


> Curious to know which electric scooter (s) were in the frame?


I,d looked at several in french several shops earlier this year couldn,t put a name to any of them the one I tried belonged to my nextdoor neighbours son (50) UK illegal he rides it to work the handle bars fold down and it can be carried on its side 2 would have easily slid into the van.


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## RSD7a (Sep 20, 2022)

witzend said:


> I,d looked at several in french several shops earlier this year couldn,t put a name to any of them the one I tried belonged to my nextdoor neighbours son (50) UK illegal he rides it to work the handle bars fold down and it can be carried on its side 2 would have easily slid into the van.


Ah ok. I know what you.mean now ... electric scooters to stand on ... not sit-on electric motor scooters.


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## Brockley (Sep 20, 2022)

I settled for this.



			Google Image Result for https://img.gkbcdn.com/p/2019-10-23/onebot-s6-folding-electric-bike-250w-motor-max-25km-h-orange-1574132777187._w500_.jpg


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## Brockley (Sep 20, 2022)

It’s basically the same as this.


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## Brockley (Sep 20, 2022)

The MiRider costs over £1500, the Onebot s6 cost me just over £500 with a spare 7amp battery (I believe it’s now around £800).

The MiRider is exactly the same frame and mechanics as the Onebot. The MiRider has upgraded waterproofing by one level. The controller looks like an upgrade too. 

Both restricted to 25k/h and 200watt motors. 

That’s some mark up!


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## jagmanx (Sep 21, 2022)

colinm said:


> I've done many thousands of miles on ebikes over the years. First got one due to my hip problems, a hub drive, was pretty good but with 'full size' wheels on extreme uphills there was always the possibility of stalling the motor, not such a problem if it has small wheels(or good hips). Had to change it for a trapeze frame when my hip got worse, so got a crank/centre drive, whilst it was about £1000 pound more it was well worth the money, even before my hip operation I'd been known to pull a wheelie when belting it up a steep offroad hill. I've got through a couple of chains, so I think maybe I give it too much power on higher gears sometimes, but chains are a easy cheap part.
> Couple of friends have 'rice puddings' (must remember to tell them that one), they love theirs.


Before the war...(when I was at primary school)
I played in the chess team.
Rice pudding was on the table when I got home. 
Here in Thailand "Sticky Rice with fresh mango" is even better !
Coconut milk rather than cows


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## mark61 (Sep 21, 2022)

jagmanx said:


> Before the war...(when I was at primary school)
> I played in the chess team.
> Rice pudding was on the table when I got home.
> Here in Thailand "Sticky Rice with fresh mango" is even better !
> Coconut milk rather than cows



Which war?


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## jagmanx (Sep 21, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Which war?


The Bore War


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## trevskoda (Sep 21, 2022)

jagmanx said:


> The Bore War


So thats where the dutch cap came from.


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## witzend (Sep 24, 2022)

jagmanx said:


> .(when I was at primary school)
> I played in the chess team


Chess at Primary School ? 
Best we could manage was conkers with binder string


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## witzend (Sep 24, 2022)

Moped said:


> If you want a French bike then Decathlon in the U.K. would be a good start.
> If you are in France then a trip to a French Decathlon might be interesting. Prices very similar to the U.K.


Well search continues passed Decathlon nr Bordeaux this morning called in and although a good selection of E bikes only one folding bike. 
Are bike parts available for most makes of bike in Uk ? any maintence would be done in uk but it,ll mainly be used in France so possibly some spares could be needed their


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## Boris7 (Sep 24, 2022)

There was a thread on here about some members testing an e bike with fat tyre but I can’t find the thread


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## mistericeman (Sep 24, 2022)

witzend said:


> Well search continues passed Decathlon nr Bordeaux this morning called in and although a good selection of E bikes only one folding bike.
> Are bike parts available for most makes of bike in Uk ? any maintence would be done in uk but it,ll mainly be used in France so possibly some spares could be needed their


Most will have been built in China wherever they are eventually sold... 
My Paselec px6 is a copy/clone of various identical looking bikes... 
And carries mostly unbranded copies of shimano brakes/gears etc... 

Which are all easily available BUT do sometimes take work to identify... 

BUT it was at the, bottom end of the scale price wise... 
Still been good value though and a heap of fun to ride.


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## Ducato (Sep 25, 2022)

witzend said:


> Walking around French Supermarkets I,ve noticed Electric Bikes at what seem compared to UK prices very reasonable prices 500€ I understand their probably the lower end of the market but has anyone any knowledge of them


You get what you pay for I guess. I bought my first e-bike in 2017 after cycling Manchester to Blackpool on a charity ride with 7000 other cyclists. £2000 for a Giant Road—E

I have done 13,000 + miles on that and last year I bought a CUBE Electric Trail bike for £2100 and I took both bikes to Spain for 3 months last winter in a Skoda Yeti with the back three seats removed. Slept in it occasionally

Next Friday I take delivery of a long wheelbase Ducato Camper as I want to do some wild campervanning. 2019 with 49,000 miles on the clock.

I shall be asking lots of questions about park-free locations


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## Ducato (Sep 25, 2022)

witzend said:


> Well search continues passed Decathlon nr Bordeaux this morning called in and although a good selection of E bikes only one folding bike.
> Are bike parts available for most makes of bike in Uk ? any maintence would be done in uk but it,ll mainly be used in France so possibly some spares could be needed their


What spares do you think you might need? Inner tubes for all sizes are £4:50 at Halfords and a replacement chain at 3000 miles is £30 if you buy a quality one. My e-bike does 400-550 miles a month and an annual service once a year cost about £55. If you have one with hydraulic disk brakes then new pads and brake fluid top up is about £25 for front and back from Halfords


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## witzend (Sep 26, 2022)

Ducato said:


> What spares do you think you might need?


Until it breaks I can,t answer that an it,ll be in France when that happens so Halfrauds won,t be much help


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## witzend (Sep 26, 2022)

Ducato said:


> You get what you pay for I guess


An In the first post I mentioned bikes around £500


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## trevskoda (Sep 26, 2022)

Ducato said:


> You get what you pay for I guess. I bought my first e-bike in 2017 after cycling Manchester to Blackpool on a charity ride with 7000 other cyclists. £2000 for a Giant Road—E
> 
> I have done 13,000 + miles on that and last year I bought a CUBE Electric Trail bike for £2100 and I took both bikes to Spain for 3 months last winter in a Skoda Yeti with the back three seats removed. Slept in it occasionally
> 
> ...


Are we nearly there yeti, top notch wagon.


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## trevskoda (Sep 26, 2022)

Boris7 said:


> There was a thread on here about some members testing an e bike with fat tyre but I can’t find the thread


Tube


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## saxonborg (Sep 26, 2022)

Ducato said:


> What spares do you think you might need? Inner tubes for all sizes are £4:50 at Halfords and a replacement chain at 3000 miles is £30 if you buy a quality one. My e-bike does 400-550 miles a month and an annual service once a year cost about £55. If you have one with hydraulic disk brakes then new pads and brake fluid top up is about £25 for front and back from Halfords


Usually If you change a chain then more than likely you will need a chain ring and cassette.


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## JQB (Sep 30, 2022)

witzend said:


> Walking around French Supermarkets I,ve noticed Electric Bikes at what seem compared to UK prices very reasonable prices 500€ I understand their probably the lower end of the market but has anyone any knowledge of them


There was a piece in the press recently, i think it was decathlon, explaining that yes  prices are higher in the UK due they say to brexit addition costs burden. Could be described as a brexit negative benefit, don't know, rees mogg could polish that up a bit i guess.


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## Topmast (Oct 1, 2022)

I can’t help wondering if spare parts would be available if required for the cheaper bikes.I was looking at the adverts for Eskute  cycles and reading excellent reviews ,then found a different page of reviews saying don’t touch with a barge pole.All very confusing!


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## mistericeman (Oct 1, 2022)

Topmast said:


> I can’t help wondering if spare parts would be available if required for the cheaper bikes.I was looking at the adverts for Eskute  cycles and reading excellent reviews ,then found a different page of reviews saying don’t touch with a barge pole.All very confusing!


As I've already said... 
Most components will likely be copies of branded stuff (the hydraulic disks on mine take Shimano pads and disks) 
It's when it comes to motors/controllers/displays that the fun can start if you have issues. 
Most can be swapped/upgraded at a cost... Issue is with a cheap bike it can almost be the same price as you paid for the bike... 

That said I've known folks with 5 grand plus bikes have issues that have cost them dearly as they've been JUST out of warranty.


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## witzend (Oct 5, 2022)

How about charging these bikes when away with van? Noticed people using the borne supply an a generator I,m guessing a invertor would be a big draw on our batteries


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## trevskoda (Oct 5, 2022)

mistericeman said:


> As I've already said...
> Most components will likely be copies of branded stuff (the hydraulic disks on mine take Shimano pads and disks)
> It's when it comes to motors/controllers/displays that the fun can start if you have issues.
> Most can be swapped/upgraded at a cost... Issue is with a cheap bike it can almost be the same price as you paid for the bike...
> ...


Any fool who spends 5 grand on a kids toy requires their head looking at.


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## GMJ (Oct 5, 2022)

witzend said:


> Well search continues passed Decathlon nr Bordeaux this morning called in and although a good selection of E bikes only one folding bike.
> Are bike parts available for most makes of bike in Uk ? any maintence would be done in uk but it,ll mainly be used in France so possibly some spares could be needed their



If you bought a bike abroad, would the warranty be honoured in the UK?


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## trevskoda (Oct 5, 2022)

GMJ said:


> If you bought a bike abroad, would the warranty be honoured in the UK?


If a dealer here then yes, same as the outboards i sell.


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## witzend (Oct 5, 2022)

How about charging these bikes when away with van?. Noticed people using the borne supply an a generator I,m guessing a invertor would be a big draw on our batteries


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## witzend (Oct 5, 2022)

GMJ said:


> If you bought a bike abroad, would the warranty be honoured in the UK?


Thats another thing to consider. (Some time ago We had a egr valve replaced in France had problems in  3 mths our local Fiat dealer was a bit iffy with doing it under warranty a call to Fiat in Italy and they brought a loan car repaired van returned it in 3 days with a 50% service voucher)


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## colinm (Oct 5, 2022)

witzend said:


> How about charging these bikes when away with van?. Noticed people using the borne supply an a generator I,m guessing a invertor would be a big draw on our batteries


Depending on bike you may find a 12v charger, or do the same as us, use an invertor, most chargers draw less than 100w, the key to charging is 'little and often', we have 85w solar and 2x75Ah batteries and had no problems.


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## GMJ (Oct 5, 2022)

Cheers

I was just wondering if they might wriggle out of it as we are not in the EU now.


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## mistericeman (Oct 5, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Any fool who spends 5 grand on a kids toy requires their head looking at.


I doubt anyone spending 5 grand on a E bike will be too bothered about the opinion of someone that won't spend more than £10 on a car and thinks anything with electric windows is the work of the devil.


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## GeoffL (Oct 5, 2022)

witzend said:


> How about charging these bikes when away with van?. Noticed people using the borne supply an a generator I,m guessing a invertor would be a big draw on our batteries





colinm said:


> Depending on bike you may find a 12v charger, or do the same as us, use an invertor, most chargers draw less than 100w, the key to charging is 'little and often', we have 85w solar and 2x75Ah batteries and had no problems.


Beware of generalisations and check your own situation. FWIW, our chargers are rated 200W and they appear to be the same as many other 36V chargers.
We have 17Ah @ 36V battery packs that give us a nominal 50 mile range. However, we only have a 150W inverter, and it won't cope... so we're limited to recharging from mains even though we have 220Ah of lead-acid batteries + 200W of solar that probably could recharge the eBike batteries if we had a bigger inverter.


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## colinm (Oct 5, 2022)

GeoffL said:


> Beware of generalisations and check your own situation. FWIW, our chargers are rated 200W and they appear to be the same as many other 36V chargers.
> We have 17Ah @ 36V battery packs that give us a nominal 50 mile range. However, we only have a 150W inverter, and it won't cope... so we're limited to recharging from mains even though we have 220Ah of lead-acid batteries + 200W of solar that probably could recharge the eBike batteries if we had a bigger inverter.


If you haven't a way of checking actual draw the key to knowing what it actually is, is the rated output. Our chargers are labelled as having a input of 100-240v 1.6amp, which would lead us to think it was 160w, reality is 72w. We have a 300w (continuous draw) invertor so well within limits.


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## korky (Oct 5, 2022)

mistericeman said:


> I doubt anyone spending 5 grand on a E bike won't be too bothered about the opinion of someone that won't spend more than £10 on a car and thinks anything with electric windows is the work of the devil.


Well said. My e-bike is more fun than any car I've ever driven and keeps me fit and enhances my mental health. You can't put a price on that.


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## trevskoda (Oct 5, 2022)

mistericeman said:


> I doubt anyone spending 5 grand on a E bike will be too bothered about the opinion of someone that won't spend more than £10 on a car and thinks anything with electric windows is the work of the devil.


Yep £10 to buy and £600 when sold after 15 years of driving, Billy no so daft.


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## witzend (Oct 5, 2022)

GMJ said:


> Cheers
> 
> I was just wondering if they might wriggle out of it as we are not in the EU now.


I think its you pay your money an take your chance but something to consider when the time comes


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## mark61 (Oct 6, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Yep £10 to buy and £600 when sold after 15 years of driving, Billy no so daft.


Great when it works like that Trev.
Sometimes it don't   
Picked mine up yesterday. Still recovering from butt surgery so can't go far yet, but fully intend to have fun later.


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## Robmac (Oct 6, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Great when it works like that Trev.
> Sometimes it don't
> Picked mine up yesterday. Still recovering from butt surgery so can't go far yet, but fully intend to have fun later.
> View attachment 113463



I like that Mark. What's the range like?


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## mark61 (Oct 6, 2022)

Robmac said:


> I like that Mark. What's the range like?


Hugely variable, so hopefully soon I'll find out
Bosch figures for say 100KG bike,  rider and luggage, in eco mode, mainly flat terrain, is around 180 miles
Same load, full turbo mode, mountainous and you're down to 50 miles.
The bike is 30Kg though, so bit of a lump.

Reading reviews many city users get around 160 to 170 miles, out and about on tracks mixed terrain around 80 to120 miles.

My take on it is you have to seriously fit or very slow to get anywhere near 180 miles, and seriously unfit or wanting to go very fast to get down to 50 miles. 
I'm aiming for 70 miles, I won't say for what reason though   

Has got 1125 Wh from two batteries though. Power taken from individual batteries in 5% increments.


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## Robmac (Oct 6, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Hugely variable, so hopefully soon I'll find out
> Bosch figures for say 100KG bike,  rider and luggage, in eco mode, mainly flat terrain, is around 180 miles
> Same load, full turbo mode, mountainous and you're down to 50 miles.
> The bike is 30Kg though, so bit of a lump.
> ...



Even 50 miles ain't bad really Mark so any more is a bonus and great for a days entertainment or a week doing the run to work or the shops.

Think I'll stick to the motorbike though as I'm a lazy git.


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## GeoffL (Oct 6, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Hugely variable, so hopefully soon I'll find out
> Bosch figures for say 100KG bike,  rider and luggage, in eco mode, mainly flat terrain, is around 180 miles
> Same load, full turbo mode, mountainous and you're down to 50 miles.
> The bike is 30Kg though, so bit of a lump.
> ...


That sounds very reasonable. FWIW, I get a nominal 50 miles using a mix of assistance levels on the cycle trails of Devon and Cornwall. Bike, rider and luggage is from 140kg to 150kg. My bike has a 250W front-wheel conversion with a 17Ah, 36V rack-mounted battery (so 612Wh). With 5 assistance levels to choose from, I typically use level 2 on the flat and higher levels as the gradients increase.


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## colinm (Oct 6, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Hugely variable, so hopefully soon I'll find out
> Bosch figures for say 100KG bike,  rider and luggage, in eco mode, mainly flat terrain, is around 180 miles
> Same load, full turbo mode, mountainous and you're down to 50 miles.
> The bike is 30Kg though, so bit of a lump.
> ...


Using similar Bosch drives on average we get 10 miles per 100Wh, and I think the relies get about the same from their Rice Puddings. This will be dependent on the terrain and how much effort you put in.


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## trevskoda (Oct 6, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Great when it works like that Trev.
> Sometimes it don't
> Picked mine up yesterday. Still recovering from butt surgery so can't go far yet, but fully intend to have fun later.
> View attachment 113463


Looks a cool bit of modern engineering, health to wear.


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## GMJ (Oct 7, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Great when it works like that Trev.
> Sometimes it don't
> Picked mine up yesterday. Still recovering from butt surgery so can't go far yet, but fully intend to have fun later.
> View attachment 113463



Out of interest, can I ask how much that was? Message me if you prefer it rather than open forum.


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## Obanboy666 (Oct 7, 2022)

GMJ said:


> Out of interest, can I ask how much that was? Message me if you prefer it rather than open forum.


It looks like it’s the same model as my mate has recently bought, Trevor will have a siezure when he sees the price lol !








						Riese & Muller Superdelite GT rohloff
					

The Superdelite. The ride is the destination. Power for long rides, comfortable riding enjoyment and state-of-the-art safety technology – the Superdelite is t




					www.manchesterbikes.co.uk


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## Robmac (Oct 7, 2022)

Obanboy666 said:


> It looks like it’s the same model as my mate has recently bought, Trevor will have a siezure when he sees the price lol !
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fair play to Mark though Steve. You work hard for your money so enjoy it and good luck to him.


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## Robmac (Oct 7, 2022)

...I'm also going to send Trev a shroud with some pockets in it.


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## Obanboy666 (Oct 7, 2022)

Robmac said:


> Fair play to Mark though Steve. You work hard for your money so enjoy it and good luck to him.


Couldn’t agree more.
My wife died at 55 years old, since then if I see something I want and have the money I buy it. Life’s to short and as is often mentioned there’s no pockets in a shroud.


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## mark61 (Oct 7, 2022)

Obanboy666 said:


> It looks like it’s the same model as my mate has recently bought, Trevor will have a siezure when he sees the price lol !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very close.
Went for the Mountain Rohloff.
A few mates have asked if the surgeon removed my brain from my butt instead of the cancer   

https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/bikes/superdelite-mountain/


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## Robmac (Oct 7, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Very close.
> Went for the Mountain Rohloff.
> A few mates have asked if the surgeon removed my brain from my butt instead of the cancer
> 
> https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/bikes/superdelite-mountain/



It's a cracking bit of kit to take with you in the van Mark, unfortunately very tempting for tea leafs unless you can keep it inside the van?

I would have one in a heartbeat if I hadn't recently splashed out for a new motorbike.


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## mark61 (Oct 7, 2022)

Too big in van for travelling, ok for days out. Still got a bit of time to work on what to do when away. 

Security is an issue, lets see if I still have it in a few months. Being mugged at traffic lights is a bit of a thing round here too, so I might become a proper cyclist and just run the reds.


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## GeoffL (Oct 7, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Too big in van for travelling, ok for days out. Still got a bit of time to work on what to do when away.
> 
> Security is an issue, lets see if I still have it in a few months. Being mugged at traffic lights is a bit of a thing round here too, so I might become a proper cyclist and just run the reds.


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## trevskoda (Oct 7, 2022)

If there is anyone else on here with money burning a hole in their pockets please feel free to donate to poor downtrodden old me, no small change under a grand please.


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## GMJ (Oct 7, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Very close.
> Went for the Mountain Rohloff.
> A few mates have asked if the surgeon removed my brain from my butt instead of the cancer
> 
> https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/bikes/superdelite-mountain/



Thanks


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## korky (Oct 7, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Very close.
> Went for the Mountain Rohloff.
> A few mates have asked if the surgeon removed my brain from my butt instead of the cancer
> 
> https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/bikes/superdelite-mountain/


You won't go far wrong with the Rohloff e hub and belt drive.No more cold sessions on the yard cleaning the drivetrain after a winter ride, and the electric gear change is something else isn't it? Only had mine since the beginning of August,also after an op.Sort of like having a sweety after the nasty medicine. I bought the Nevo,as I couldn't get on and off a bike the normal way with my hip,so I needed a step through frame . My mates won't stop ragging me now for riding a 'girls' bike, until I leave them struggling on the hills.Enjoy your bike, and if you come up with a clever method to secure it to the van let me know,I don't think there is one.


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## mark61 (Oct 8, 2022)

korky said:


> You won't go far wrong with the Rohloff e hub and belt drive.No more cold sessions on the yard cleaning the drivetrain after a winter ride, and the electric gear change is something else isn't it? Only had mine since the beginning of August,also after an op.Sort of like having a sweety after the nasty medicine. I bought the Nevo,as I couldn't get on and off a bike the normal way with my hip,so I needed a step through frame . My mates won't stop ragging me now for riding a 'girls' bike, until I leave them struggling on the hills.Enjoy your bike, and if you come up with a clever method to secure it to the van let me know,I don't think there is one.


Doubt I'm gonna come up with clever secure method.  
Half thinking about getting a box trailer, insulate it, loo & shower in front, toys in the back. Always been happy with pull out loo and shower, but might need a few more comforts now.


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## Robmac (Oct 8, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Doubt I'm gonna come up with clever secure method.
> *Half thinking about getting a box trailer, insulate it, loo & shower in front, toys in the back.* Always been happy with pull out loo and shower, but might need a few more comforts now.



I've thought about the very same Mark.

I hate having a cramped bathroom and would love to take the bike along.


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## mark61 (Oct 8, 2022)

Robmac said:


> I've thought about the very same Mark.
> 
> I hate having a cramped bathroom and would love to take the bike along.


Never even had a cramped bathroom in a van  , been more than happy for years with my Nemo helio shower.
Really like the idea of a box trailer though, extra 900/1000 KG of carrying capacity, loads of water, more room for solar, batteries, extra booze storage, extra 100 litres fuel etc. 
Bikes, body boards whatever toys you want to carry,  yeah, better start planning.


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## Fisherman (Oct 8, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Never even had a cramped bathroom in a van  , been more than happy for years with my Nemo helio shower.
> Really like the idea of a box trailer though, extra 900/1000 KG of carrying capacity, loads of water, more room for solar, batteries, extra booze storage, extra 100 litres fuel etc.
> Bikes, body boards whatever toys you want to carry,  yeah, better start planning.


My new mode of transport when out and about.


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## Robmac (Oct 8, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Never even had a cramped bathroom in a van  , been more than happy for years with my Nemo helio shower.
> Really like the idea of a box trailer though, extra 900/1000 KG of carrying capacity, loads of water, more room for solar, batteries, extra booze storage, extra 100 litres fuel etc.
> Bikes, body boards whatever toys you want to carry,  yeah, better start planning.



When I had my little Citroen Dispatch with a rooftent I used to use a portaloo in the back of the van, but for showers I had a small utility tent with a bucket of warm water and a 12v pump for showers. It was absolute luxury. Julie didn't come with me in those days though.

However, she insisted on a private bathroom for our PVC as well as a full kitchen and permanent double bed, not to mention somewhere to sit and a table. Obviously that limits room and the taper of the walls on the Renault Master restricts even further. We get by ok but you couldn't read a newspaper in there!


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## trevskoda (Oct 8, 2022)

Robmac said:


> We get by ok but you couldn't read a newspaper in there!


Page 3 the sun.


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## Fisherman (Oct 8, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Security is an issue, lets see if I still have it in a few months. Being mugged at traffic lights is a bit of a thing round here too,


Was yours nicked to order then Mark


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## Robmac (Oct 8, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Page 3 the sun.



I thought they got rid of that years ago Trev?


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## Fisherman (Oct 8, 2022)

Robmac said:


> I thought they got rid of that years ago Trev?


That’s why I stopped buying it Rob


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## RichardHelen262 (Oct 9, 2022)

Robmac said:


> I thought they got rid of that years ago Trev?


Trev has saved all his, they are under his mattress with his money.
Hence the need for the step ladder to get into bed


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## barryd (Oct 9, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Doubt I'm gonna come up with clever secure method.
> Half thinking about getting a box trailer, insulate it, loo & shower in front, toys in the back. Always been happy with pull out loo and shower, but might need a few more comforts now.


It looks an amazing bike. Presumably with something that value its insured though. 

I get round all that by having bikes that even the local tip would refuse. I would love something fancy though.  

There is an old saying "cheap no good, good no cheap".  If you enjoy it and can afford it get the best.


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## mark61 (Oct 9, 2022)

Oh yes, insured.
Might put a wicker basket on it and bung some cut flowers in there.  Youths might leave it alone then


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## barryd (Oct 9, 2022)

We don't even lock our folding mountain bikes up. So far nobody has had the decency to nick em. Bloody thieves are fussy these days.


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## mark61 (Oct 9, 2022)

Good friend kept her bike for months unlocked, just rested against front railing next to the pavement.
Everyone told her to lock it up or it will get nicked. You've guessed, first night she locked it up, it got nicked.


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## trevskoda (Oct 9, 2022)

Most locks can be opened in 30 secs.


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## RichardHelen262 (Oct 9, 2022)

barryd said:


> We don't even lock our folding mountain bikes up. So far nobody has had the decency to nick em. Bloody thieves are fussy these days.


I am the same a couple of old bikes that haven’t had a wash in years, and nobody touches them, and should they get stolen it wouldn’t really matter


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## r4dent (Oct 9, 2022)

witzend said:


> Until it breaks I can,t answer that an it,ll be in France when that happens so Halfrauds won,t be much help


Halfords can be of help.

Find the part you are looking for on an English web page and show the page to the French shop.

Works for all sorts of problems.

I had a dreadful time trying to find silencer repair bandage until I find showed someone a picture of "Gun  gum".
The French call it "Le Gun Gum" !


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## dunfillin (Oct 9, 2022)

Unfortunately, the higher the desirability, the greater the risk of theft and so the higher the insurance premium. 
We were quoted almost £1000 to cover 2 e-bikes a couple of years ago!!


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## trevskoda (Oct 9, 2022)

dunfillin said:


> Unfortunately, the higher the desirability, the greater the risk of theft and so the higher the insurance premium.
> We were quoted almost £1000 to cover 2 e-bikes a couple of years ago!!


Cheaper to do what folks do here, buy cheap bike and tie the dog chain to the handlebars, he knows his way back from shops or pubs.


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## witzend (Oct 11, 2022)

Bit over my price but any comments on this would be appreciated 





						Buy a Basis Osprey Folding Electric Bike from e-BikesDirect
					

A Mid range Folding electric bike with a good kick of power!




					www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk


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## GeoffL (Oct 11, 2022)

witzend said:


> Bit over my price but any comments on this would be appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At £800 for the 8.8Ah version, I suspect you won't find much cheaper that's actually worth having. For comparison, my Cyclotricity conversion kit cost me £600 with a 17Ah battery pack -- and that's on top of the cost of the bike I converted. Re. the bike you're considering:

It has three assistance levels. While five or more would give finer control, three is generally adequate. FWIW, I tend to use levels 2, 3 and 5.
It has a 'walking assist' throttle. This is an excellent thing to have IMO as at that price the pedelec sensor will almost certainly be cadence, which typically takes half a rotation or more of the crank before the electric kicks in. So that throttle will let you get electric from a standing start on hills etc. A torque crank sensor might be better as that would give assistance as soon as you pressed on a pedal and also would give variable assistance proportional to the effort you put in. I have a test ride on a Giant fitted with a torque sensor five or six years ago, and I loved it. It felt much more natural than a cadence sensor -- but torque sensors don't come cheap!
It has a freewheel rather than a cassette, which will limit your options if you want to change the gears. The spec doesn't specify sprocket sizes. However, most freewheel assemblies are not going to be remotely fast with a 44T chainring and 20" wheels.
Take the range specified with a large pinch of salt -- I suspect the 8.8Ah version will be good for 20-25 miles while the 14Ah will probably give 30-40 miles.
In the end, perhaps better to ask on the Pedelecs forum or similar because it's much more likely that someone will have one of these and be able to give info re. build quality, etc.


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## Obanboy666 (Oct 11, 2022)

dunfillin said:


> Unfortunately, the higher the desirability, the greater the risk of theft and so the higher the insurance premium.
> We were quoted almost £1000 to cover 2 e-bikes a couple of years ago!!


I’ve been looking at insurance for my Specialized Vado SL EQ 4.0 valued at £3,500 and quotes vary between £120.00 to £250.00 which was Direct Line.
£1,00 for a pair of e-bikes seem way over the top unless they were top of the range Riese & Muller or similiar.


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## dunfillin (Oct 12, 2022)

Obanboy666 said:


> I’ve been looking at insurance for my Specialized Vado SL EQ 4.0 valued at £3,500 and quotes vary between £120.00 to £250.00 which was Direct Line.
> £1,00 for a pair of e-bikes seem way over the top unless they were top of the range Riese & Muller or similiar.


I think that the £1000 quote that I received were also from Direct Line and were generated during Covid when bikes were in big demand and when  presumably therefore there were a lot of thefts. Premiums are also very dependent on area covered. 
As I pay a fraction of the above quote (the lowest that I could find at the time) to cover both my car and motorbike, I declined the offer and I haven't looked since. What I did find interesting was that quotes for similar valued non-electric were considerably less reflecting the risk that electric bikes are more likely to be stolen
I have instead invested in very high security whilst the bikes are garaged and our usage is such that they are never left unattended. Unfortunately the weight of adequate chains and locks is not what you would want to carry around on a day out and even they are not going to fully protect against vandalism or theft of components.

The bikes quoted for are a Scott Genius 910 (more expensive than a lot of the Riese & Muller range) and Liv Amiti-E. The combined replacement value including accessories and uprated components would be in excess of £10 k.


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## Val54 (Oct 12, 2022)

Obanboy666 said:


> I’ve been looking at insurance for my Specialized Vado SL EQ 4.0 valued at £3,500 and quotes vary between £120.00 to £250.00 which was Direct Line.
> £1,00 for a pair of e-bikes seem way over the top unless they were top of the range Riese & Muller or similiar.


Try this firm ...... https://pedalcover.co.uk/


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## GeoffL (Oct 12, 2022)

Re. insurance -- just a quick reminder to check all the T&Cs very carefully. For example, two companies who quoted for our bikes would only insure against theft if they were kept at home somewhere other than a garden shed or timber building and all external door locks had to be deadlocking; night latches not being sufficient. Away from home, the bikes had to be secured to an immovable object in an approved manner using an approved bike lock. A quick phone call confirmed that "Carry Bike" racks and similar were not acceptable and hence theft would not be covered while the bike was on a typical bike rack.
Edited to correct a typo


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## colinm (Oct 12, 2022)

As per Geoff, we found that the t&c's can sometimes be difficult to adhere to, our bikes are stored in a garden shed, although the shed is fairly secure and the bikes have further security within the shed, trying to find a insurance company to accept is not easy.


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## dunfillin (Oct 12, 2022)

Ultimately if the criminal fraternity want something badly enough then they will have it no matter what you try to do to keep your property safe but a garden shed is so easily broken into which is why the insurance company will not cover bikes stored there.


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## GeoffL (Oct 12, 2022)

colinm said:


> As per Geoff, we found that the t&c's can sometimes be difficult to adhere to, our bikes are stored in a garden shed, although the shed is fairly secure and the bikes have further security within the shed, trying to find a insurance company to accept is not easy.


Reading between the lines, the insurance requirement might be met if the bike is kept in a garden shed and secured to a fixed object (e.g. a Sheffield stand or anchor point concreted into the ground) using an approved bike lock. However, that still doesn't get around issues some insurance companies have with Carry-Bike type racks on motorhomes.


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## Robmac (Oct 12, 2022)

dunfillin said:


> Ultimately if the criminal fraternity want something badly enough then they will have it no matter what you try to do to keep your property safe but a garden shed is so easily broken into which is why the insurance company will not cover bikes stored there.



Make it as hard as possible for them.

My Motorcycle is kept in a purpose built metal Motorcycle garage Which is triple locked (insurance approved make). The garage is behind a locked gate. The motorcycle has a steering lock on which makes it nigh on impossible to get out without carrying it (220kg in a confined space). It has an alarmed (insurance approved) chain and padlock secured to a ground anchor.

If they can get past that lot without disturbing me and the dogs, they then have to get past 8 vehicles (all alarmed) parked on my drive and blocking access. (not all my vehicles I hasten to add).

The insurance company should give me money!


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## mistericeman (Oct 12, 2022)

Not so much making it hard for them... 

As making YOURS harder than the next ones along.


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## trevskoda (Oct 12, 2022)

Robmac said:


> Make it as hard as possible for them.
> 
> My Motorcycle is kept in a purpose built metal Motorcycle garage Which is triple locked (insurance approved make). The garage is behind a locked gate. The motorcycle has a steering lock on which makes it nigh on impossible to get out without carrying it (220kg in a confined space). It has an alarmed (insurance approved) chain and padlock secured to a ground anchor.
> 
> ...


Electric helicopter LOL


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## Robmac (Oct 12, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Electric helicopter LOL



Would have to lift probably 600kg all told Trev and bolted to the ground at that.


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