# Wild versus Free



## tonybater (Aug 16, 2010)

I have been searching for suitable wild camping spots on other web sites and came across a long thread which turned into a debate about wild camping - well more of a rant really! Contributors were moaning about motorhome owners who spend thousands of pounds on their outfits and are then too mean to pay for camp site fees.

I think they are missing the point completely. To me, wild camping is not about saving a few pounds - I am perfectly happy to pay up for my overnight stay - it is about the freedom of going and staying where you want, when you want, often spontaneously - no forward planning - in fact exactly what encouraged me to buy a motor home in the first place. There were suggestions that we should all use CS/CLs instead. I am a member of the Caravan Club, but have rarely used CLs as I find that especially during peak season, there are no spaces available when you get there, and you are encouraged to book ahead - so much for freedom and spontenaity!

Do others think like me - that wild camping is about freedom rather than free camping?


----------



## caspar (Aug 16, 2010)

I couldn't agree more. We tend to book onto a site every so often for the added luxuries, but much prefer the freedom of not having to plan and being able to do what you want, when you want. Although we always plan our holidays in advance, I don't we have ever stuck totally to our plans - had we been in a caravan we would have had to.


----------



## Adriaboy (Aug 16, 2010)

Tony, I could not agree with you more.
There is nothing that compares with happening across a beautiful spot and thinking - that'l do for me!


----------



## maingate (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi tony,

That debate you were on about sounds like the one on outandaboutlive. There has been more than one on there.

I joined in and gave them my take on wilding.I do not think I am very popular with some of the po faced lot on that forum. 

It is very good for in depth technicaladvice. That is the main reason I go on it.


----------



## Bulfrog (Aug 16, 2010)

I assumed from the title of this website that we were all wildcampers. Do some people actually use campsites?


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 16, 2010)

Bulfrog said:


> I assumed from the title of this website that we were all wildcampers. Do some people actually use campsites?


not many i would only say about 98% but lots talk about it,the closes most come to wildcampin is a pubstopover 2 meals 6 bottles of wine be cheaper to pull on a site


----------



## vwalan (Aug 16, 2010)

i totally dislike campsites and try to avoid them at all times. i find them horrible places and not exactly over keen on the people that i find on them if and when i use them. some seem like a boat marina walk through one to get to the other. what does a campsite offer. expensive water somewhere to tip loo and thats it. dont use club houses as they are full of people i dont like. dont actually use pubs muchas same people frequent them as well. cant see anymore safety on a campsite and usually feel the campsite as just ripped me off. wild free call it what you like. dont pay for parking if i can help it. sooner be on a gypsy camp than a campsite. and you get a better welcome . spent a few days in portugal last winter with a fairground . hard to communicate but what a friendly bunch. no thank you keep your camp sites . cheers alan.


----------



## Tigatigatiger (Aug 16, 2010)

tonybater said:


> I have been searching for suitable wild camping spots on other web sites and came across a long thread which turned into a debate about wild camping - well more of a rant really! Contributors were moaning about motorhome owners who spend thousands of pounds on their outfits and are then too mean to pay for camp site fees.
> 
> I think they are missing the point completely. To me, wild camping is not about saving a few pounds - I am perfectly happy to pay up for my overnight stay - it is about the freedom of going and staying where you want, when you want, often spontaneously - no forward planning - in fact exactly what encouraged me to buy a motor home in the first place. There were suggestions that we should all use CS/CLs instead. I am a member of the Caravan Club, but have rarely used CLs as I find that especially during peak season, there are no spaces available when you get there, and you are encouraged to book ahead - so much for freedom and spontenaity!
> 
> Do others think like me - that wild camping is about freedom rather than free camping?




I would I agree, wild camping is about spontenaity and freedom rather than free camping. 

We end up with a mixture of wild and campsites-so far (our first year with our MH). To me if we are having to pay to parkup up overnight on a car park I would check out a local campsite-sometimes as cheap if not cheaper we have found, and out of the way-no "boy racers". 

But you can't beat a peaceful spot with a great view all for free.

We sort of have plan to set off with, then change it as we find interesting places to visit or to stop.


----------



## UFO (Aug 16, 2010)

On our last trip our daughter and her partner were with us and as the campervan only sleeps 2 we booked into a campsite for 3 nights so they could stay in a tent.  On arrival we were informed by a camper that the place we selected was 'reserved' for a rally (pop-top caravans, they even had a flag).  After wildcamping it was not a pleasant experience, so we won't do that again for a while.  I agree with other posts it is the freedom and the shear serendipity of not knowing what you will find, who you will meet.  Our best travelling memories are of such experiences.  With the growing number of MHs and CVs it's just as well that many choose to stay on campsites - more room for us wilders!


----------



## maingate (Aug 16, 2010)

I was once told that I was in the top 2%. I thought they meant IQ.

Now, after what Old Arthur has said, it must mean wilding.

Have not been on a site for more than a year but then I am not a fair weather camper. If we are out and about this winter then I may need a site to charge up my batteries and do laundry.


----------



## roamer2 (Aug 16, 2010)

*wild every time*

could not agree more the only time we have seen anything nicked was on site,several fishing rods taken from behind the vans during the night


----------



## Kontiki (Aug 16, 2010)

I think campsites are missing the point, if they were to charge a reasonable price (to me £3 to £5) for a motorhome to park up overnight (something like after 8pm until 9am) if they have the space why not . I usually don't want to camp I only want to park somewhere reasonably overnight then be off to find somewhere nice for the day. At the prices they are usually charging I will just wildcamp & they get nothing. Unlike many campers & caravanners many motorhome owners will use their van throughout the year, but site owners still persist in charging ridiculous prices all year round. 
When we are abroad we usually try to find a free aire but don't go out of our way too much if we find one for a few euros.


----------



## brettandsandra (Aug 16, 2010)

I totally agree with Kontiki. Our first night in our van was on the Gower out of season. We arrived at 9pm, used no facilities, no water, no hook up and left at 10 am the next morning and they charged £20 What a bloody rip off. That's how we came across wild camping and we haven't used a campsite since. Although we are looking into CL's as an alternative because there are areas where the only places to stop seem to be Pubs. If you have to pay for a meal and drinks it doesn't seem to be such good value anymore.


----------



## Edforth (Aug 16, 2010)

maingate said:


> I was once told that I was in the top 2%. I thought they meant IQ.
> 
> Now, after what Old Arthur has said, it must mean wilding.
> 
> Have not been on a site for more than a year but then I am not a fair weather camper. If we are out and about this winter then I may need a site to charge up my batteries and do laundry.



Same here, Ive not been on a site in tha last 3 years. However things are changing too quickly and free-camping is getting problematic with all the height barriers being installed almost everywhere. Just returned from Ireland (N & South) and confirm that last years there were numerous spots to overnight-4-free, , ,but not anymore! I built my own van with the intention of being self-sufficient with 110 amp batteries everywhere and 30 gallons of water on board.  I found 'harbours'being handy places but 'No Overnight Parking' signs have popped-up. My bet is: there is a conspiracy against free-overnighters in the UK and Scotland + North & S-Ireland. I've never been to France but it is looking positively enchanting compared to what I have been experiencing of recent -- any contibutions to that would help me to decide?


----------



## vwalan (Aug 16, 2010)

great britain is full of jealous people they dont like to think you got away with it and they cant. some love the campsites and will help do away with all wild camping if they could . forget holidays here take your van abroad. you can park in police and fire stations and lots of authority places for free .you cant even park in the day here in most authotity carparks. most want a great big caravan a new 4x4 and an awning to cover a football field and cant get there head round quiet lake side or riverside .or even a nice sunset over the sea. no bingo or a big barbeque big enough to roast a cow. think all fires are bonfires .they never sit round that small well looked after fire and chat about life. cant do it so you must stop it. cheers alan.


----------



## Bulfrog (Aug 16, 2010)

Old_Arthur said:


> not many i would only say about 98% but lots talk about it,the closes most come to wildcampin is a pubstopover 2 meals 6 bottles of wine be cheaper to pull on a site



That has dissapointed me Arthur. I thought we were all wildcampers. Why have one of the symbols of freedom (campervan/motorhome) and then follow someone elses rules when you park up?. And having to pay silly money for the privilege.


----------



## Bulfrog (Aug 16, 2010)

My wife and I have wildcamped for 30 years, sometimes up to 18 months continuously. Money is not the problem it is the fact that we choose to wildcamp because we are independent. We do not need someone to supply us with a piece of grass to park up on, we will find our own.


----------



## Kontiki (Aug 16, 2010)

I agree that the real point of wildcamping is finding your own spot that you like & not so much the fact it is free. 
We are staying in the UK for the most of this year due to family commitments, because of that we thought we would join the C&CC to use the temporary holiday sites & CS's. We went on one of the THS rallies at Ross & it wasn't too bad, another one we went on we thought was rubbish, not only that the price was dearer than it said in the magazine. We tried a couple more in Anglesey &  the first one we didn't think we could get on & off the field without getting stuck & the other one we couldn't have made it round the turn to get onto the field so we just did the usual & wildcamped.
We don't like campsites of any kind which are too organized & you have to park on your plot facing a certain way. As for cheap campsites the only ones of those we could find are miles from anywhere. Think we will stick to wildcamping for most of the time.
We are hoping to fit a break in to Brittany around the end of September for about a month, it must be about 5 or six years since we have been there. It's nice to be welcomed even by the French


----------



## maingate (Aug 16, 2010)

Roger Barret said:


> But surely the point of WCFM is wildcamping.
> 
> 
> 
> Syd


Hi Syd,

I think you have spent far too much time on the dark side of the moon.

You do not get thrown off this site if you have ever stayed on a campsite. If you are not happy with people who stay on sites then you had best look elsewhere for company.

For a start, I have spent many nights on sites when I worked around the country and used my van rather than stay in hotels or boarding houses. I stayed very rarely on Club sites which were still a lot cheaper than hotels (and often had superior facilities). Usually I stayed on CL`s or CS`s which were cheap as chips. I never had any problems with officialdom on sites and met a lot of friendly people who had m/homes and caravans.

I agree with the comment that there is a group of m/homers who will not spend a penny if they can help it. It is often this type who overstays, leaves a mess behind and f***s it up for the rest of us.

I take 6 dogs away with me and I choose coastal areas. I am about to do an extended trip around Scotland. Hopefully I can do without any campsites but I have done my homework on sites to give me an option should I need it.

If you are the freeloading type then don`t bother me if we ever meet. You cannot mistake my van, it has a nodding dog in every window and they are not Churchill.


----------



## brettandsandra (Aug 16, 2010)

Anyone else noticed that trottersindependenttrader who is criticising those  who may wildcamp on grounds of price, hasn't paid his £15 to become a member


----------



## maingate (Aug 16, 2010)

Hi brettandsandra,

Welcome to the site. If you were not a newbie then you would not have had a dig about TrottersIndependantTrading (or TIT, as I think of him). He was a full member on here but is a man of principle. It is a long story and one that will not be resurrected.

Free members contribute as much as full members on this site. The core of this site is about members posting wild camping sites ie: Putting information in, not paying £15 and using other peoples information. So start posting your wilding spots.


----------



## Edforth (Aug 17, 2010)

*Excuse me . . .  but*

It occures to me that some correspondents here, seemingly enjoy in-fighting. Speaking as a Newbee, I was hoping this site might have proved a little more illuminating regarding 'Wild Camping for Motorhomes' etc.  
Incidentaly -- there is a beautiful overnight spot at ,Ballintoy Harbour N/Ireland; with toilets fresh water and a small cafe. The views are fantastic and the locals very friendly -- enjoy!


----------



## Dezi (Aug 17, 2010)

Edforth said:


> It occures to me that some correspondents here, seemingly enjoy in-fighting. Speaking as a Newbee, I was hoping this site might have proved a little more illuminating regarding 'Wild Camping for Motorhomes' etc.
> Incidentaly -- there is a beautiful overnight spot at ,Ballintoy Harbour N/Ireland; with toilets fresh water and a small cafe. The views are fantastic and the locals very friendly -- enjoy!



Hi, You are quite correct there are members who prefer to argue rather than discuss, but such is life.With regard to wild / free then as somebody who has spent twenty  or so years wilding think the term means freedom of choice. We wild camp, we use pub stopovers, we use campsites, thats freedom. I think  some members have lost the spirit / ethos  of what the term means. Many are simply looking for charity i.e. a freeby.

Dezi


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 17, 2010)

yep i am one of the charity cases who looks for freebies and finds them most weekends of the year  if i wanted to set up on a field with ehu and all the home comforts and run about in a little smart car that i tow behind mei'd buy a caravan,as for spending the night in a pub so i can stop in their car park is also not for me,and it is down to cost i can go away every weekend friday dinner till sunday night or monday morning for the price of the diesel,but havin said that we have a system that works for us it's only in a few places we spend the night where we spend the day.
we never plan till friday morning then we check the met office for the best weather in a 60/100mls radius of us and thats where we head


----------



## Kontiki (Aug 17, 2010)

I remember a post on here quite a few years ago from somebody who considered himself a wildcamper & thought the site was mis-leading. His idea of wildcamping was to go off into the hills with just a tent & using a motorhome was just free parking  In my younger days I've slept out with just a blanket (misunderstanding with the crowd I went with & nobody brought a tent or anything to cook on ) I know some who consider a campsite without showers & hook ups wildcamping. 

My own view of wildcamping is to go wherever you want, park as you want to, hopefully not too many people around & you don't upset the locals.

I like the RULES OF GOLD on a Portuguese website.


----------



## brettandsandra (Aug 17, 2010)

Maingate, you need to relax. 1 It was meant as a joke, hence the 
2 I have only been a member for a month or so and have already posted two wild camping spots I have found, offered my driveway on my smallholding in the Brecon Beacons to any members and 3 my main point was who's to say who's reason for wildcamping is more "just", price, not having to book ahead, not liking the rules of campsites etc. It never fails to amaze me how people who are all on a forum because of a shared interest (regardless of the subject) always end up arguing amongst themselves. I think some people need to get out more!!


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 17, 2010)

we all do have differant idea's but most of mine are right and others are wrong  it's human nature to think like this,that why the world is like it is but like every forum only get involved and take part in that what suits you and just read the other parts


----------



## Admin (Aug 17, 2010)

Lets get back on topic please...


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 17, 2010)

TrottersIndependentTrader said:


> We don't argue, we have discussions (maybe heated at times).
> 
> People do express their own views on forums and they will vary and times get heated. Chances are those 'arguing' on one thread are totally agreeing with each other on another
> 
> Wouldn't life be boring if we all agreed on everything?


sorry tit i don,t agree
p.s.like the wild site search you've set up greg


----------



## coolasluck (Aug 17, 2010)

For us wildcamping is about trying to be in a place scenic or rural where we can be on our own and left to our own devices enjoying nature.
I would only ever stay for 2 or 3 days max,and take all our crap with us and alas other peoples too at times.
We plan to full time in 4 years time,and in that case yes we will be looking to camp for free after all we have our lives ahead of us and god willing we can live life to the full,but will also need to be strict with regards to budgeting as we will not be millionaires.If we have to we may use cl sites,but that would be more down to the wife than myself.


----------



## Hobbsy (Aug 17, 2010)

tonybater said:


> I have been searching for suitable wild camping spots on other web sites and came across a long thread which turned into a debate about wild camping - well more of a rant really! Contributors were moaning about motorhome owners who spend thousands of pounds on their outfits and are then too mean to pay for camp site fees.
> 
> I think they are missing the point completely. To me, wild camping is not about saving a few pounds - I am perfectly happy to pay up for my overnight stay - it is about the freedom of going and staying where you want, when you want, often spontaneously - no forward planning - in fact exactly what encouraged me to buy a motor home in the first place. There were suggestions that we should all use CS/CLs instead. I am a member of the Caravan Club, but have rarely used CLs as I find that especially during peak season, there are no spaces available when you get there, and you are encouraged to book ahead - so much for freedom and spontenaity!
> 
> Do others think like me - that wild camping is about freedom rather than free camping?



yeah bit of both i say!


----------



## kenjones (Aug 17, 2010)

I don't usually know where i'm going until I get there!
The CCC directory is useful for CS's when it's time to stop and most of the club's temporary holiday site are very good.
Wilding is favourite in the right places.
Like most people on here I value my freedom and after a lifetime at work being organised by others it's time for a change.
Paying for sites isn't a problem if they have what I want - space, peace and freedom.
I stayed on a commercial site in Cornwall last year (one night only) because it was getting very late when I arrived and it was almost £20 a night. Everyone parked in neat rows and close together and I even had to queue for water. Someone told me I was "lucky" to get in without a booking. I can't think of a better case for wilding!


----------



## Hobbsy (Aug 17, 2010)

Roger Barret said:


> When I had a van I was a member of the CC and I never used one of their sites. Pre booking should be outlawed, or at least bookings more than 48 hours in advance. Destroyed the whole freedom thing for me. Perhaps that is why they are mostly used by caravans and older motorhomers.
> 
> Syd



someone make Roger Barret PM


----------



## maingate (Aug 17, 2010)

Wild versus free is the name of the thread and it was always going to be a contentious subject.

My point of view is that wildcamping is becoming more difficult at the same time as its popularity is rising. A lot of this is down to the bad behaviour of a small section of campers and motorhomers. This is across the spectrum from small self builds to A class expensive motorhomes.

Behaviour is altered by education. You may be offended by my words but somebody reading the posts may take in some of the points and act in a different way. Remember that there are quite a few new members on here who are also new to wildcamping.

My intention is not to purposely upset anyone but diplomacy is not my strong point. I started wildcamping in the 1960`s with a sleeping bag, a waterproof sheet, one change of clothes and thumbed lifts around the country.

You young`uns  don`t know you`re born.


----------



## Dezi (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi, the point i was making is quite a simple one. Wild camping is about freedom, & your choice of overnight stop. Some people think wild camping is getting something for nothing & nowt else. " note the idium old un" If you insist on not paying for a nights stop regardless then there is not much freedom involved, you are dictated by whats available.However it takes all sorts.Some folks would rather park up round the back of a supermarket than pay a couple of pounds for a night at say monsal head or on a beach car park with a stunning view. 

Dezi


----------



## Tecka (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi, I can't speak much for van wilding as I've only just got a van and I've a couple of issues to resolve before use. But when tent wilding its never been about the monetary aspect but about feeling able to pitch where I want and enjoy the surrounding without having to worry about precise planning of routes.
I once did six months with just me and my tent and spent about five minutes before leaving doing any planning (basically bought a map and was dropped off on the A5 near Trifan), the kindness of people that I met kept me showered when needed (I never once asked - I think my BO made people feel obliged to offer) and I had probably the best six months of my life.
I hope this extends to my wilding in the van and will second what many people are saying, Its about the freedom, not saving money. If the best spot near where I am is site, then site it is. If its the layby next to the site then the layby it is.

Tecka


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 17, 2010)

as it says under my name camp site dodger not i won't payi pay charges at lots of places monsel head included several times a year but i won't pay to sit in a field over night with a van 6mts away in each direction to pull out at 8am in the morning to park up where i want to be,
also started with a sleeping bag in the sixtys they called us dossers,then in an old ambulance in cornwall for 2yrs and we were beach bums then caravans and we were industrial gipsys following work (money) around the country,now i'm retired sat in a bunglow in 5 acres of land surrounded with kids, grandkids and greatgrand kids and can't wait to pull out on a friday dinner to get away


----------



## coolasluck (Aug 17, 2010)

Old_Arthur said:


> as it says under my name camp site dodger not i won't payi pay charges at lots of places monsel head included several times a year but i won't pay to sit in a field over night with a van 6mts away in each direction to pull out at 8am in the morning to park up where i want to be,
> also started with a sleeping bag in the sixtys they called us dossers,then in an old ambulance in cornwall for 2yrs and we were beach bums then caravans and we were industrial gipsys following work (money) around the country,now i'm retired sat in a bunglow in 5 acres of land surrounded with kids, grandkids and greatgrand kids and can't wait to pull out on a friday dinner to get away








Life was once good for you Arthur.
But as you are now,in your bungalow and land...............you have my condolences


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 17, 2010)

coolasluck said:


> Life was once good for you Arthur.
> But as you are now,in your bungalow and land...............you have my condolences


and it's payed for but ferk all cash or pension to call owt till bob the builder gets his cheque book out now this goverment has stopped em useing their gardens it might be before i kick it then i might get some new seat covers and wheel trims for my old bus


----------



## Bulfrog (Aug 17, 2010)

Ok I understand now that maybe not so many people are true wildcampers. 
Do many meets get organised on this site, we would love to meet up with some other vans. Are the meets wildcamp meets or do they take place on campsites?


----------



## Dezi (Aug 17, 2010)

Old_Arthur said:


> and it's payed for but ferk all cash or pension to call owt till bob the builder gets his cheque book out now this goverment has stopped em useing their gardens it might be before i kick it then i might get some new seat covers and wheel trims for my old bus



Evening you whinging northern tyke. Fortunately for you I am a man with a plan. As you live in a depressed area - oop norf - the government offers generous grants for business start ups. Hows about turning your 5 acres into a camp site !!!. A] You will have a good income, providing that sufficient people wish to holiday in Doncaster. & B] You can stay on your campsite without paying. problem solved. No need to thank me, its all part of the service.

Dezi


----------



## barnybg (Aug 17, 2010)

*WILDING ???and free !*

I think i have misunderstood the word or meaning  _ WILDCAMPING _ for motorhomes....
Wildcamping,i thought was using your initiative,finding a beautiful place and staying ,then moving to the next,leaving it as you found it or _ cleaner _ !
As for wildcamping for MOTORHOMES,that means just that (to me) not caravans or tents etc,otherwise why not change the title or join a particular site,or am i being blinkered or the 'site' being _ open for more members _.
I would of thought,that all 'wildcamping' would be FREE,otherwise _ how are you classing it as WILD _ ? You mean it hasn't a pool? or only several shower blocks or it hasn't a club house/bar ? I am indeed a bit confused ?????
Pulling into a PUB CAR-PARK,ooh thats really _ wild that _ and using council car parks,oo you devil's,what next ?Golf courses or UK services ? lol.
Each to their own i suppose,me i cant see the point in buying a _ motorhome _ take notice of the name (home)  to park within 6 foot of another lot,or a caravan or tent ! AND for the same price _ as a Hotel _ !Just buy a car,book the hotel and stay there,it'll work out cheaper...
Ok if i was travelling to _ somewhere_ looking for that new spot,and i ran out of light etc,then yes i would ask the 'pub' or park in a car-park if possible but no way would that be my choice of campervan/motorhome 'wilding ',as for not spending money,some of you say,firstly it costs money in fuel,so whereever i fill up,i'm spending money,rather than sitting on my couch watching tele,secondly,i have to eat and so do others,then there's refreshment,gifts,pay to enter places,like heritage sites etc etc,if i sat on my butt in the house or booked that hotel,what would i spending or who would benefit ? for me France uses their heads,Spain sadly are starting to put barriers etc up,as they want their hotels full,and dont want people getting ideas,luckily Germany,Austria,Poland,Hungary,well the list is endless Abroad in Europe that is,that place many wont venture too,because they dont do 'pasties' or proper chips !!!Am i having a little rant,yes i guess i am,coz i haven't heard so much tosh in a while,i guess alot of you think your ' ruffing it' because your sleeping on 'foam',haven't got 240 electric and your 40 + plasma tv  ????
So ,i'm not trying to upset anyone,but trying to put things into perspective,why pick on someone if they think 'WILDING' means free ? and i thought it was too ???to be honest and finding your own unique place without the need for blah,blah,blah.
To have the privalage to be hearded like sheep,to pay £15 to £50 per night,for some concrete square,where i can empty my waste and chat to other £50,000 motorhome owners,who talk about how much they paid and what they had in their last 'campsite' they were in...........NO THANKS.


----------



## Bulfrog (Aug 17, 2010)

Thank you Barny, I was starting to feel like a bit of a freak there for a while.
Glad you have similar ideas regarding wildcamping.


----------



## maingate (Aug 17, 2010)

Right then newbies, one of you start a new thread introducing yourselves and put some pictures up of your van, followed by a brief background of your wilding experience.

You have had plenty of digs about other members yet we know nothing about you.

BTW you sound like young knowitalls. As an 'oldie', I would be interested in what the youf of today is getting up to. I need to take an interest as you will be funding my old age pension before long.


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 17, 2010)

Dezi said:


> Evening you whinging northern tyke. Fortunately for you I am a man with a plan. As you live in a depressed area - oop norf - the government offers generous grants for business start ups. Hows about turning your 5 acres into a camp site !!!. A] You will have a good income, providing that sufficient people wish to holiday in Doncaster. & B] You can stay on your campsite without paying. problem solved. No need to thank me, its all part of the service.
> 
> Dezi


good ideaget thy sen up er wi ya cheque book i'm knacked 45yrs grafts dun me not like you school teachers
tailgate when do you turn green offical


----------



## maingate (Aug 17, 2010)

Hello Arthur,

April 2012 I hang me boots up. I am currently building up my grumpy levels to be a typical pensioner by then. This website is a grand place for practising on the young`uns.

I have retired already but get nowt off this tighta**e government. I get the wife to stand outside the Post Office in a mini skirt on Pension day. It keeps me in fags and beer but she is not the lass she once was.

If I was like Dezi, I could sell one of me Mayfair apartments if I was a bit short.

You should be doing alright with all them royalties from your appearances on Crimewatch.


----------



## guyd (Aug 17, 2010)

I will never forget the night / morning of my honeymoon (steady there at the back...) where we wild camped near a stone circle in Scotland - and woke up to the most magical sight of a misty morning dew on the stones, and a mist filled valley (ooh - hairs standing up as I type) extending miles beyond and the majestic mountains clear as a bell above. And not a single Daily Mail reading sock/jesus creeper wearing pipe smoking bigot to be seen!


----------



## barnybg (Aug 17, 2010)

*Know it all newbies and 'oldies ??*

Ok,as for me,i have never ever 'used or payed' to go in a sheep pen, i mean campsite, oops i tell a lie,once when 'roughing it in Tenerife ' with my sleeping bag,not knowing where to go,and in the middle of no where,i stumbled on ,what they called a campsite,which had tents set up for people who didn't have one,smelling of urine and vomit,noisy drunk locals or dare i say 'gypsies' as that what they seemed like,i stayed the night and then found my other 'nights' along the coast on the beach.
I have been to 'sites' to meet friends and also enquired at them and parked near to them (it was dark) and i honestly can say _ i have no intention of staying at any,both abroad and back in the UK_ overpriced and unsuitable,but hey thats just me and my opinion.
I have 'wilded' for over 35 years,the last 10 on and off,mostly on,or should i say in a campervan/motorhome.
I think spending your money locally does go along way,but moreso,is the way you look (sadly) the way you act,and the way you treat the place or area,for example i have found a stunning cove or beach in Greece,near Kavala,i have been going there for three years now,roughly every 3 months for a week or more a time,and from the first day,i collected all the rubbish,not just in my spot or area,but the whole beach !! it didn't look like anyone noticed AND i didn't do it for that,i done it for my personal thing,thinking of nature and not wanting holiday makers or locals to think i caused or added to it,within 2 dys there wasn't  any litter/rubbish to be seen,every morning from then on,i'm greeted with 2 fresh fish from the fishermen,and every evening,i get smiles and nods when i turn up and also waves,i am accepted,i start my little clean up,when i arrive each time and bin it.everyones happy.
Now if i played my music loud,lit big bonfires,sweared,shouted,walked around nude,crapped in the bushes etc etc,then my little heaven,would have lasted the once,and i can also say the same for all my other spots,i cant vouch for anyone else,i would hope * everyone * acts like this,and nothing to do with age,young or old,theres always dickheads (scuse my french)I'm no friendly looker either with long hair.nearly to my waist and long beard to my chest (biker not hippy..nowt wrong with hippies though  ) but its your actions and the way you come across(_ this is not intended as a lecture for younger wilders,who actually WILD _) and i would think it harder trying to make the 'locals' relax more to you,if YOU pull up,in an old van,with hand painted murals 4 irish wolfhounds and Black Sabbath blasting out of your old Marshal amps !!
I have what i call,a posh motorhome (dont you know,lol) a 95 Talbot Autoquest 6 berth,but to some including the _ motorhome lot _ this isn't good enough,and i have been shrugged off a few times,to me,their loss.
I dont see how the 'newbies' come across as knowitalls,but are or where asking a question about 'wildcamping' and i cant see where they say how old they are ? so unless your very old (Maingate) but your not,as have't reached pensionable age as yet,maybe old in the tooth in/on this site !! but give them a chance and dont frighten them off,WE can all play a part in the _ wildcamping _ scene....maybe,even in pub carparks and council parking


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 17, 2010)

maingate said:


> Hello Arthur,
> 
> April 2012 I hang me boots up. I am currently building up my grumpy levels to be a typical pensioner by then. This website is a grand place for practising on the young`uns.
> 
> ...



mayfair ferkin mayfair he has property on sandbanks in poole no kiddin and in italy and scotland and now he trying to buy some of my terrace propertys in donny


----------



## Edforth (Aug 17, 2010)

*You could'nt be more wrong*



Dezi said:


> Hi, the point i was making is quite a simple one. Wild camping is about freedom, & your choice of overnight stop. Some people think wild camping is getting something for nothing & nowt else. " note the idium old un" If you insist on not paying for a nights stop regardless then there is not much freedom involved, you are dictated by whats available.However it takes all sorts.Some folks would rather park up round the back of a supermarket than pay a couple of pounds for a night at say monsal head or on a beach car park with a stunning view.
> 
> Dezi


Wild Camping is... wait for it ... Camping in "wild or remote areas."
Free Camping is all about not paying anyone for "zero facilities" and that includes Supermarket carparks or any other.  
People who use 'designated sites' only are not of the intrepid variety and thus would not enter any forum such as this one. 
I'm a free camper and like the price. I dont use official camp sites simply because I dont like paying £20+ for the parking of 4 wheels on some field owned by a guy who wants my money. It would be cheaper for me to park within central London at £5 per wheel for a few hours of darkness.
Mostly 'some users' of this site seem utterly senseless and I doubt if they have ever had a camper-van. 
For this reason I exit this shambolick site but... pronto! And thanks but no thanks.


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 17, 2010)

Edforth said:


> Wild Camping is... wait for it ... Camping in "wild or remote areas."
> Free Camping is all about not paying anyone for "zero facilities" and that includes Supermarket carparks or any other.
> People who use 'designated sites' only are not of the intrepid variety and thus would not enter any forum such as this one.
> I'm a free camper and like the price. I dont use official camp sites simply because I dont like paying £20+ for the parking of 4 wheels on some field owned by a guy who wants my money. It would be cheaper for me to park within central London at £5 per wheel for a few hours of darkness.
> ...


oh kin elnot summut i said i hopewatch the door on the waaay out !! sorry


----------



## maingate (Aug 17, 2010)

I bet he drinks Carling Black Label.


----------



## Edforth (Aug 17, 2010)

maingate said:


> I bet he drinks Carling Black Label.



Do you always hold your pussy in your hand?


----------



## maingate (Aug 17, 2010)

Where does this £20 a night come from? I have never paid anywhere near that.

Anyway, I thought you had gone.


----------



## Edforth (Aug 17, 2010)

Niether have I -- but thats an average 'without hook-up' during peak periods. As I said in an earlier post, "I Dont Pay." 
I just Won a fiver because someone said I wouldnt get a respons within 5 mins -- I got 2.  Thanks


----------



## coolasluck (Aug 17, 2010)

barnybg said:


> Ok,as for me,i have never ever 'used or payed' to go in a sheep pen, i mean campsite, oops i tell a lie,once when 'roughing it in Tenerife ' with my sleeping bag,not knowing where to go,and in the middle of no where,i stumbled on ,what they called a campsite,which had tents set up for people who didn't have one,smelling of urine and vomit,noisy drunk locals or dare i say 'gypsies' as that what they seemed like,i stayed the night and then found my other 'nights' along the coast on the beach.
> I have been to 'sites' to meet friends and also enquired at them and parked near to them (it was dark) and i honestly can say _ i have no intention of staying at any,both abroad and back in the UK_ overpriced and unsuitable,but hey thats just me and my opinion.
> I have 'wilded' for over 35 years,the last 10 on and off,mostly on,or should i say in a campervan/motorhome.
> I think spending your money locally does go along way,but moreso,is the way you look (sadly) the way you act,and the way you treat the place or area,for example i have found a stunning cove or beach in Greece,near Kavala,i have been going there for three years now,roughly every 3 months for a week or more a time,and from the first day,i collected all the rubbish,not just in my spot or area,but the whole beach !! it didn't look like anyone noticed AND i didn't do it for that,i done it for my personal thing,thinking of nature and not wanting holiday makers or locals to think i caused or added to it,within 2 dys there wasn't  any litter/rubbish to be seen,every morning from then on,i'm greeted with 2 fresh fish from the fishermen,and every evening,i get smiles and nods when i turn up and also waves,i am accepted,i start my little clean up,when i arrive each time and bin it.everyones happy.
> ...







I like your style Barny,you cant beat Greece we love it,i would imagine you would fill up a few bags with all the plastic bottles that wash up on them beaches.


----------



## maingate (Aug 17, 2010)

Hi Edforth,

You should try getting out more.


----------



## sonyanter (Aug 18, 2010)

*If everyone thought like you................*



vwalan said:


> i totally dislike campsites and try to avoid them at all times. i find them horrible places and not exactly over keen on the people that i find on them if and when i use them. some seem like a boat marina walk through one to get to the other. what does a campsite offer. expensive water somewhere to tip loo and thats it. dont use club houses as they are full of people i dont like. dont actually use pubs muchas same people frequent them as well. cant see anymore safety on a campsite and usually feel the campsite as just ripped me off. wild free call it what you like. dont pay for parking if i can help it. sooner be on a gypsy camp than a campsite. and you get a better welcome . spent a few days in portugal last winter with a fairground . hard to communicate but what a friendly bunch. no thank you keep your camp sites . cheers alan.



It seems to me Vwalan that you are very opinionated about people that use camp sites.
You say you don't like club houses and pubs - seems to me you are loner or even worse a people hater.
Campsites ripped you off - I can't believe you are saying that!
Rather be with gypsies or fairground workers. Good God man - they are all villains and vagabonds. 
You sound like a man of my own heart. BUT keep it quiet mate. We don't want too many people doing what we are doing. Chill - Peace man.


----------



## Dezi (Aug 18, 2010)

Oh thats nice innit !!!

I try to help out the disadvantaged with a cunning business plan & suddenly I am a retired school teacher with property in mayfair. Neither of those claims are strictly accurate. 

I agree with Maingate on one point however.Some members need to get a few miles under their belt & a few experiences behind them before jumping in and criticizing others, who just may,possibly have been there and dun it. 

Dezi


----------



## barnybg (Aug 18, 2010)

*A little awakening rant ?or a shock to the 'system'*

And maybe,_ forgotten it _ 

I'd like to add though,that many 'motorhomers and campers' , i can't say ' _ wilders_ '  as thy are NOT(in my eyes),but think they are ! use "campsites" because of the very fact that there's others,like theirselves there,they have a comfort zone,a place of interest,someone to talk too,some sort of safety AND perhaps thats what they think 'camping or even _ wilding _ ' is all about  !!
The mere fact that they have a camper worth £30,000 and upwards,makes them campers and wilders  and really (i'm being a little blunt,so excuse me) were tuggers,that have either retired or come into a bit more money,so buy the all dancing * motorhome * which sits languishing on the large drive for 11+  months a year or maybe a weekend use at whitsun,but of course use to go to the favourite campsite within a 100 mile drive,_ not to overdo it _.
Sounds like i'm having a go doesn't it,well maybe i am a little,i just wish that people accepted everyone who travels or actually likes camping and * wilding * and not looks down on others who have,lets say just a van,as long as _ everyone behaves theirselves and spreads a good name _ as always,there are a certain percentage that spoil it for all,who get tarred with being campers or wilders but being totally NOT, are there to 'party' or cause a ruckus and mess,these can be so called proper 'travellers' too,who basicly need to be taught  how to behave and live like humans ( to true ?)
I know its hard to judge someone from a distance,and better perhaps to 'be at a distance' as you might mix with the wrong type,and it does seem sad that ,thats the way it is right across society,which only makes more barriers and breeds contempt,but people shouldn't presume,maybe i am myself,in this quiet rant of mine,have two older,longer served members (in their wisdom and rye humour) frightened off or offended 'newbies' or perhaps true/original wilders off from this great site,_ if you haven't gone ,give it a chance _ state your thoughts,as its better for a forum,i would think, for everyone to express their thoughts,practises,ideas,ideals,interests,knowledge etc etc this stops it being stale,led by a certain few,captivated to a certain area,but opens it up,to suggestions and newness ??????
Anyway back to 'wilding'  so where's a good  pub carpark ? or cheap campsite,that has that certain beer or sandwich ?that takes your 2.2 dogs and allows you to erect a marque outside your camper to meet 'aquantenses'


----------



## Dezi (Aug 18, 2010)

barnybg said:


> And maybe,_ forgotten it _
> 
> I'd like to add though,that many 'motorhomers and campers' , i can't say ' _ wilders_ '  as thy are NOT(in my eyes),but think they are ! use "campsites" because of the very fact that there's others,like theirselves there,they have a comfort zone,a place of interest,someone to talk too,some sort of safety AND perhaps thats what they think 'camping or even _ wilding _ ' is all about  !!
> The mere fact that they have a camper worth £30,000 and upwards,makes them campers and wilders  and really (i'm being a little blunt,so excuse me) were tuggers,that have either retired or come into a bit more money,so buy the all dancing * motorhome * which sits languishing on the large drive for 11+  months a year or maybe a weekend use at whitsun,but of course use to go to the favourite campsite within a 100 mile drive,_ not to overdo it _.
> ...



Well my self opinionated friend, as they say there is nothing like a well thought out viewpoint, and I think we can safely say that, that was nothing like one. 
You know so much about me & others on this site & our lifestyles, yet we have never met. Clairvoyant are we. 

Dezi


----------



## duncananderson (Aug 18, 2010)

*in defence of pubs!!!*

barney said "wheres a good pub carpark", err look in the pub stopover section, i presume thats what its there for.
 tintern abbey, tann hill, betsy-coewdy & my own gaff to name but a few.
theres another different list in google maps by mark. dezi has contributed loads of places. its up to people to try them and write a description (good or bad) its not everyones cup of of tea and its about personal choice.
however if you have been driving for hours and theres a nice, friendly, safe, pub carpark that welcomes  motorhomes, campervans, self builds, trucks,
workers in tranny vans ect ect, surely its nice to know you have the OPTION 
of stopping there.
 most of the pubs listed are in stunning rural locations and i would certainly class my carpark as being a bit WILD.
 I have welcomed about 50 vans here in the last 10 months. everyone of them were absolutley lovely people (evan aj !!!) and all left as personal friends.
 well done barney on the rubbish front that is good good good.

vwalan said "i dont stop at pubs because of the type of people who frequent them"   
 most clientele of remote rural pubs are lovely gentle people and i must defend them. you are hardly going to park up in a lary town centre gaff are you?
 wild places, campsites some good some bad, pubs its all about personal choice and how long you have been on the road that day.
 if you dont feel comfortable in a place for whatever reason move on.

 rant over for now


----------



## barnybg (Aug 18, 2010)

*Mmmm ?*

Dezi ,What makes you think i was talking about you,and personally,but if the cloth fits ???   Duh,i'm generalizing as to create areaction or viewpoint,it is still allowed isn't it ?.....my friend !
Duncan...I know there's a 'pub stop over' section on this site...I was taking the Pi55    as carparks especially pub ones are not exactly........_ Wild _ as in camping,maybe in other ways,try some of the Welsh valley ones,at 10 pm onwards  ,but i guess i know what your saying and yes it's really good to have a friendly place that accepts you, listed,and thank you,good for us,good for you,hopefully.
I think some are taking it seriously about my little rant,it's just my idea of what 'wilding' is,compared to yours i suppose,wilding and free go together,because just by the mere fact your in the middle of nowhere or not parked _ next to someone/thing _ means it will be FREE (as theres no one to charge,and to charge for what..fresh air) and its _ WILD _
Sorry ,i cant class a campsite or even a pub car-park as ...wild ,now i know you poor things cant seem to find 'wild areas' or are indeed running out of places because the powers that be,or business people or even land owners are fencing vast areas off,or charging for the right,or even moving you on,from these dwindling spots,but there's other places other than the UK and fish and chips


----------



## Slowhand (Aug 18, 2010)

TrottersIndependentTrader said:


> I think we can see from this thread that we have the following 'wild' members :
> 
> 1. Campers, those that don't wild camp and never will, they just visit this site for the chat and banter etc.
> 
> ...



I agree with the last part of your post so why was there so much arguing then?


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 18, 2010)

well done tit (sorry !! greg ) i think you have covered all the bases there
but for me personally my m/h gives me freedom it is set up with every thing we need and is never more than 5/10 mins away from being mobile inside and out ,if it feels right we stay if not a pot of tea and we move on,in one of the posts someone said about bein a people hater, anti social i think that could be a fair discription of me now and in the van i can be switched off, i have met and talked and had drinks with members on here but i don't do meets or anything organised in a group i have all the family and friends i can afford at home i get in my van live my dream and ferk the system at least till monday morning comes round again
p.s. i let a site member stop on my place in his van before he went to work abroad and told him he can park up over winter for a bit of leccy money *why* because i wish i could do the same


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 18, 2010)

Slowhand said:


> I agree with the last part of your post so why was there so much arguing then?


because we are all differant troll


----------



## Dezi (Aug 18, 2010)

barnybg said:


> Dezi ,What makes you think i was talking about you,and personally,but if the cloth fits ???   Duh,i'm generalizing as to create areaction or viewpoint,it is still allowed isn't it ?





barnybg said:


> .....my friend !
> Duncan...I know there's a 'pub stop over' section on this site...I was taking the Pi55    as carparks especially pub ones are not exactly........_ Wild _ as in camping,maybe in other ways,try some of the Welsh valley ones,at 10 pm onwards  ,but i guess i know what your saying and yes it's really good to have a friendly place that accepts you, listed,and thank you,good for us,good for you,hopefully.
> I think some are taking it seriously about my little rant,it's just my idea of what 'wilding' is,compared to yours i suppose,wilding and free go together,because just by the mere fact your in the middle of nowhere or not parked _ next to someone/thing _ means it will be FREE (as theres no one to charge,and to charge for what..fresh air) and its _ WILD _
> Sorry ,i cant class a campsite or even a pub car-park as ...wild ,now i know you poor things cant seem to find 'wild areas' or are indeed running out of places because the powers that be,or business people or even land owners are fencing vast areas off,or charging for the right,or even moving you on,from these dwindling spots,but there's other places other than the UK and fish and chips



Hi, probably because you personally answered my comments. the English language works like that .Duh

Dezi


----------



## lisa01633 (Aug 18, 2010)

we just sold our caravan and jeep to have the freedom of being spontanious .. we just had our third weekend in our mh and are loving the fact that you can just jump in and if you see somewhere nice you can just pull over and have a cuppa .. we paid for 2 sites this weekend so as for us not site paying i just blew that out the window

we are quite new to this and i'm sure we will find the free places soon lol

also if we had designated spots then we wouldn't annoy so much would we


----------



## Dezi (Aug 18, 2010)

QUOTE=lisa01633;110321]we just sold our caravan and jeep to have the freedom of being spontanious .. we just had our third week[end in our mh and are loving the fact that you can just jump in and if you see somewhere nice you can just pull over and have a cuppa .. we paid for 2 sites this weekend so as for us not site paying i just blew that out the window

we are quite new to this and i'm sure we will find the free places soon lol

also if we had designated spots then we wouldn't annoy so much would we[/QUOTE]

Hi lisa01633, Selling your caravan & buying a motor home is a sure sign of maturity & a superior intellect, although there are one or two exceptions. Plenty of free wilding sites abound, both in the UK & abroad all fully documented on the web.   
Dezi


----------



## lisa01633 (Aug 18, 2010)

Hi Dezi .. well they say life begins at 40 and i turned that in march .. time to get out and enjoy the scenery which you can't do in a caravan .. specially looking at the lanes we went around this weekend lol ..never been abroad haven't seen all the sights in this country yet .. not sure about the intellectual bit but the maturity is definately creeping up on me lol


----------



## barnybg (Aug 18, 2010)

*Ooh- err Mrs.*

Duh!duh!   ............After the fact,let me explain slowly,i _ generalized _ you took the bait,as if i was talking about you,you answered to it,i answered back and so forth,is that enough _ Eeengliiiish for you _ or do you want me to say it in the original British tongue/dialect............_ Welsh _ 


As stated by many ,including me.  _ each to thier own _ I like 'wilding' the term or definition to me,is what it says,not _ campsites for motorhomes _ or pub weekenders for M/H's,or top class camp sites to pay more money than a hotel for motorhomes,or caravan club,lets get together with them,but again ,_ its my point of view _ I like it,you may not want or like what i want or like,cool.
I enjoy this site because it interests me,hopefully i can debate or read other posts and either comment or move on,i happened to comment to this thread...sorry,that i am a proper 'wilder',now then let me into your fairytale,what do you do/go and own ?


----------



## Slowhand (Aug 18, 2010)

Fight!!


 Eric


----------



## coolasluck (Aug 18, 2010)

4. FreeLoaders, those that find a spot and stay there for days/weeks only moving to get supplies from the supermarket etc and avoid spending money while away.





FreeLoaders
I dont really like that term,for me wilding is just what it says and camping away from it all and away from humanity,if that is at all possible and not paying some robbing git to park with their permission.When we full-time i will be a freeloader we will have to be careful with our cash which will mean buying essentials only and not throwing our money away.
As long as you dont cause a nuisance take rubbish away and are left alone what harm are you causing.Incidentally we do wildcamp now and take our food with us its cheaper that way.We have always worked all our lives and have paid into the system,so as far as i am concerned we are not freeloaders anyway.Once we have packed it all in we will spend the rest of our lives freeloading as has been termed  and making as much from life as possible,and enjoying the important things in life,if people dont like it tough.**** them and the horse they rode in on.


----------



## Dezi (Aug 18, 2010)

barnybg said:


> Duh!duh!   ............After the fact,let me explain slowly,i _ generalized _ you took the bait,as if i was talking about you,you answered to it,i answered back and so forth,is that enough _ Eeengliiiish for you _ or do you want me to say it in the original British tongue/dialect............_ Welsh _
> 
> 
> As stated by many ,including me.  _ each to thier own _ I like 'wilding' the term or definition to me,is what it says,not _ campsites for motorhomes _ or pub weekenders for M/H's,or top class camp sites to pay more money than a hotel for motorhomes,or caravan club,lets get together with them,but again ,_ its my point of view _ I like it,you may not want or like what i want or like,cool.
> I enjoy this site because it interests me,hopefully i can debate or read other posts and either comment or move on,i happened to comment to this thread...sorry,that i am a proper 'wilder',now then let me into your fairytale,what do you do/go and own ?





Er no, I finished a comment by saying "possibly have been there and dun it” & you replied "And maybe, forgotten it"
That’s replying to me personally. Not generalising. I suggest that you stop digging, you are in deep enough already & I am getting bored.

Incidentally the original British( Brythonic) tongue/dialect was not exclusively Welsh. But that’s for another forum.

 Dezi


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 18, 2010)

TIME GENTLEMEN PLEASE


----------



## maingate (Aug 18, 2010)

I go away for a few hours to get my MOT done and look what happens!!

The deported Welshman spits his dummy out of the pram and Dezi has missed two Board meetings in the City replying to him.

Barny, go a bit further East. We cannot be doing with you AND vwalan at the same time. Better still, you two sell your vans and get into model railways and join the appropriate forum.

Coolasluck, if you try to full time up here, I will set the dogs on you.

Give me gypsies every time. Bleeding Welshmen and Cornwallonions.

BTW, failed MOT on handbrake.


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 18, 2010)

BTW, failed MOT on handbrake.
__________________
One of a dwindling band. 


drop it in an i'll sort itcheap for oap's


----------



## Dezi (Aug 18, 2010)

maingate said:


> I go away for a few hours to get my MOT done and look what happens!!
> 
> The deported Welshman spits his dummy out of the pram and Dezi has missed two Board meetings in the City replying to him.
> 
> ...





Oi maingate, Will you and that geriatric in Doncaster stop spreading these rumours i.e. rapacious retired lecturer, now coining it in city property markets.  If word gets out I shall have to stop sending out the begging letters to lottery winners.

Dezi


----------



## coolasluck (Aug 18, 2010)

BTW, failed MOT on handbrake. 







There is a god after all   and those dogs like me so would be more likely to attack jou Jim

Im going to change my avatar soon just to prove my point on said whipets


----------



## Edforth (Aug 18, 2010)

Im glad some else agrees with me Free-Camping is not Wilding. And it dous'nt make a person a Freeloader either. The 'dictatorial olduns' on this forum are abject juveniles. They maybe colourful old twits to some -- but to others they are gremlins in disguise. Anyway how can campers spend so much time on the forums ie: "several thousand postings" and yet be free spirits who are out enjoying the freedom of an open field gate?
One guy has been parked up so long his handbrake had siezed-up without him knowing about it!
Take care.


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 18, 2010)

get ready for incoming


----------



## Kontiki (Aug 18, 2010)

I camp where & when I like, whether it's free or I have to pay that's up to me. What I won't do is pay extortionate fees, I have an absolute max of £10 but in reality a fiver is about all I would think about paying. I go to a few of the motorhomes shows (often to meet up with friends we have made during our travels), you are pretty much stuck with paying what ever they are charging or you don't go. 
We have stopped on aires in France, Germany, Spain, Portugal & Belgium many of these were free but the odd ones do charge. Can these 'official' aires be classed as wildcamping  many are free but some are more organized than some campsites.


----------



## maingate (Aug 18, 2010)

Hello Edbanger, I thought you had stormed off in the huff and were not coming back.

My handbrake set up is a lot more complicated than a tranny I am afraid. Needs a tweak and will be retested tomorrow and pass the MOT. It has done 5,000 miles in the last year, would have been more but life (death actually) gets in the way.

When are you actually going to post something useful on here (if ever). I asked you to put a bit of background in about yourself as you have given no information on yourself at all, you are not prepared to say what wilding you have done either. So from now on, I will treat you with contempt as you appear to be a troll.

You did not last long on the Sainsbury recipe forum and I am hoping history repeats itself on here.

If and when you learn the skill of interacting on this forum, only then will I interact with you.

Simples.


----------



## Dezi (Aug 19, 2010)

***** said:


> Hey Guys we are free campers
> Just had over 5 weeks in France and all nights were spent on aire's except for when we visited Kath's sister on a camp site.
> A free loader I am
> 
> ...




Hi *****, Glad to see you are back. Hopefully the quality of useful information will now get back to its former level.

Any pics of stopovers ?

Dezi


----------



## Dezi (Aug 19, 2010)

Hi *****, We are off to France, Spain & Portugal around the 24th Sept for six weeks or so. I may ask you to let me have your old route from Sam Sebastian across northern Spain
(non motorway). Last year we followed the pilgrim trail from Pamplona to cape Finisterre, which is further south than your route. 

Dezi


----------



## bopper (Aug 19, 2010)

You are spot on.  The whole idea is to go and get lost just anywhere! Drive along see a pub in a nice spot, into the pub "If we have a meal and a few beers, can we stop-over in your car park landlord"? does the trick 99% of the time. Having said that I have just got back from the Isle of Wight where my parntner and I lived until Feb this year. We are in the Ventnor comic Jazz band (see us on Utube) and went back for the carnivals. Only stayed on one site during our fortnights holiday.  If any one wants to know where to wild camp on the Island, I can certainly give you all the info you need.


----------



## Slowhand (Aug 19, 2010)

Straying a bit off topic again.


 Eric


----------



## Edforth (Aug 20, 2010)

maingate said:


> Hello Edbanger, I thought you had stormed off in the huff and were not coming back.
> 
> My handbrake set up is a lot more complicated than a tranny I am afraid. Needs a tweak and will be retested tomorrow and pass the MOT. It has done 5,000 miles in the last year, would have been more but life (death actually) gets in the way.
> 
> ...


Hi P*ss in Boots, There you go again attempting a little levity, pardon me if I dont laugh too hard! I hope the handbrake problems are fixed and its hard-on again then you wont have to move. You wouldnt want to spoil a lifetime of idleness? I was really hurt by your insults lol. Now wheres that pussy hiding this time, I wonder!


----------



## Pam10 (Aug 20, 2010)

being a new comer to wild camping with our van , and never as yet in the UK , can i just ask the question . where does one park and not get moved on ? in france we pull up when and where we like , we don't need a "campsite" which was the whole point of buying an RV and no we not against paying at all , just want freedom . just don't want a policeman knocking on our window at 3am saying move on .


----------



## Edforth (Aug 20, 2010)

Hi Pam10,
Your question is exactly like the first question I asked when I entered this forum. To date I havent received any meaningful answer. However I will endevour to resolve your plight.
Within all of the UK it is mostly frowned upon to park any m/home overnight. In some towns and localities it seems that there is an un-written rule regarding motorhomes. Consequently virtualy every speck of land owned by any council has overhead hieght-barriers and / or large boulders/mounds of earth barring access. Obtaining or refilling any water tanks is a huge problem. Yes! you can use garage forecourts but will experience very low water pressure at the water-taps and only than if a tap exists. In a nutshell m/homers are virtualy prohibited from stopping  except where the driver considers s/he can park without damage and also away from boy-racers,thieves,hooligans and other such dredges of society too numerous to mention. I base these (my) personal conclusions upon three years of wilding and free-camping. The manufacturers of m/homes are in for a double whammy. 1: the recession. 2: that buyers will be expected to fork out £30k - £60k and then learn that they cannot park their hard earned m/home anywhere near any scenic location. The National Trust are the first offenders to m/homers and the local councils are a close second. Commentors upon, Wilding or Free Camping, often believe that such m/homers dont buy Roads Fund licences, Insurance or MOT''s. Also that the fuel used by such m/homers must come free also.  The sooner these stupid persons who want to forbid Wilding and Free m/home campers realise that a large Industry could collapse the better. In addition the Industy it self should sit up and help clear the way for the sake of continueing in business and customer freedom. Northern and S/Ireland is now a Dont-Go-Area due to 'No Overnight Parking' Height Barriers and boy racers who are actively encouraged to wreck any prospects of a m/home driver getting any sleep. Im sorry to be wet blanket on this 'thorny subject' but those are the facts as I have learned at first hand. I can supply areas and location 'Not To Go' 
If you have knowledge of France etc ...good. I beleive its a different set-up over there.
Take care


----------



## vwalan (Aug 20, 2010)

as a matter of interest a m,home is a m1 category under eu. law as a definition of vehicle. that makes it a car with a special body . under eu law it cannot be classed different to a car. if cars can park there so can a m,home. sleepng in a car is allowed unless a by law as been passed by a local authority. signs saying no sleeping in motorhomes are not really legal as it should say no sleeping in cars. . this as been taken up by a few euro m,home clubs and thats why the interiour ministry in spain issued a letter to all police in spain. it also applies to uk. there as been letters sent to the eu comunity to evoke these no camping in m,homes signs in uk .as and when i shall let you all know. unless m,home folk fight the regulations or atleast make sure the authorities abide by their own laws we shall be brushed away. unfortunately the m,home community as many mamsey pamsey folk who never question authority ,do as they are told and never stand upfor their rights. thats why uk is suffering the troubles we have. as for wild camping in uk its really a bit difficult to wild. as there is hardly any real wild places . unlike africa. etc . but wild /free is the same as far as i can see. but do we really need a fall out of the definition i dont think so. i can say i wild camp and also free camp. cheers alan.


----------



## Pam10 (Aug 20, 2010)

Thanks everyone , seems like a sore point . we spend most of our time in france and love the freedom to stop where we like . sadly over here it seems very different , i agree the local councils are stopping motorhomes from parking overnight , we even struggle to PARK , as we are big compared to the EU vans , but with a husband 6ft 6" he can't sleep or even stand up in a small van . hey ho , looks like france will win again . shame, so much in this country to see , the councils need to wake up , before its to late .


----------



## Edforth (Aug 20, 2010)

TrottersIndependentTrader said:


> Sorry Edforth but can I say you sound very angry for some reason.
> 
> There are plenty of spots you can stop overnight with little chance of being disturbed, if as said you are responsible.
> 
> ...



I would like to agree with you but I simply cannot  due to my own personal experiences of several weeks free-camping. In the main free-camping is not tolerated almost everywhere now. 3 years ago it was a lot different and considerably easier. But things have changed for others and also myself during this summer period. I have spoken with lots of m/homers and seemingly all (not most) agree. Im not angry at what is happening to our lack of choices and freedom--- Im furious!   You very rightly state that there are places to park if you are responsible and take precautions. I dont disagree with that statement. But there are fewer and fewer spots to overnight left. Initialy it was the Gypsies that caused the closure of numerous parking zones ,, simply because it cost the rate-payers several hundred thousand pounds to clear-up after they were eventualy evicted. Then not too surprisingly 'No Overnight Parking signs' appeared. In addition the bolders and mounds of earth etc.  You must have seen them? They are in most places that I have visited (to date) this summer.  I do not wish to sound annoyed, perhaps it is the way you read that which I write and add your own intonation or colour to my words? 
Take care


----------



## Teffy (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm finding all this very worrying.  We got our motorhome end of last year and had one weekend out, parked overnight in a car park at the coast.  Because of work problems haven't been able to get away although my husband and son went to a music festival in it last week.  Was thinking of a week away in October with part proper sites and part other places but you all make sites sound so dreadful and other places so difficult to find that I'm wondering if I shouldn't just stop at home?  We don't have much money and the van is quite elderly like us.


----------



## Pam10 (Aug 20, 2010)

i know that feeling Teffy , i am worried about wild camping , i think we will book sites , sadly , the problem is they are expensive , if we take our sons we are four adults works out about £25 a night , and we don't need the loo's or showers , just the parking! all seems wrong , hence go to france its cheaper , use the Aires in the villages , they are free or cheap , we use all local shops when out there to put back in what we take out so to speak . we found some brill places to stay last year and this june , just breath taking , beside rivers , on the beach . amazing , the boys loved it .


----------



## Edforth (Aug 20, 2010)

Teffy said:


> I'm finding all this very worrying.  We got our motorhome end of last year and had one weekend out, parked overnight in a car park at the coast.  Because of work problems haven't been able to get away although my husband and son went to a music festival in it last week.  Was thinking of a week away in October with part proper sites and part other places but you all make sites sound so dreadful and other places so difficult to find that I'm wondering if I shouldn't just stop at home?  We don't have much money and the van is quite elderly like us.



Due to my recent experiences and chatting to numerous other m/homers during the last several weeks Im now utterly against m/homing within the UK. It seems to me that our only viable choice for m/homers is to go south to France and beyond. 
I dont want to sound like an old soldier or a grumpy old man but,, those out of the way places where we used to be able to park-up for the night have all but disapeared (okay you might find the occasional overnight parkup spot available) but beware! Due to political correctness and modern laws there are now too many same sex couples at these out of the way locations (how else can I say it?).  In addition gypsies fouling every green spot throughout the land have caused councils to fork out multi-£££thousands to clean and sanitise these areas.  Councils cannot state (for political reasons) that its the gypsies,,, so they state that its the youth of today having "Raves."  Its a sign of the times Im afraid. In Stranraer Scotland there is 1 overnight spot which is free "Bunker Cafe" and car park with toilets and water. (free 2 U and no charge) Lorries use it and its not noisy and its safe. Overlooking a Loch.
Take care


----------



## maingate (Aug 20, 2010)

Hi Pam10 and Teffy and welcome.

If you do a bit of homework before a trip, you can still find places to wild. The height of the season is over now and it should be quieter.

We are off to Scotland next week and expect to wild all the time unless the weather is atrocious. I am a member of the C&CC club even though I have not been on one of their sites for about 18 months. The small 5 van sites are cheap. They have a lot of temporary Holiday sites and weekend meets throughout the year. They are very basic with just fresh water tap and elsan disposal. If you are a family then these are a good option with kids in tow.

I have a list of wilding spots on my Tom Tom. It will cost you £15 to be a full member here and you get the lot. If it saves one night on a site then you have got your money back.

I use google earth to plan my trip. Apart from the Scottish places I have on the satnav, I have sussed out some new places and will give them a try. You should get yourselves to Scotland, the rush is over as it is wall to wall m/homes in Summer. I cannot think of anything worse. We were up the West coast of Scotland in March and saw only one other m/home, it was brilliant. Out of season you can ignore some of the no overnighting signs as they have no basis in law. The local people often tell you to stay.
If the signs are official council ones then it is best to respect them. The further North you go, the more wilding spots there are.

Cheer up, the Autumn is a fantastic time to get away.


----------



## Edforth (Aug 20, 2010)

Hi again,
Yep Its agreed that things are getting a little difficult in England. Scotland was okay last year but seems to have tightened-up somewhat this season. Regarding "Wales" I lived in Cemaes Bay, thats on the Ise of Anglesey, for 14 years.  Lovely beaches un-spoiled with quaint villages and olde worldy pubs. I was on the fringes of the local council and even then, there were mutterings that the overnighter campers would be excluded. The reasoning was that m/homes used supermarkets to fill-up with food and diesel at cut prices and thus contributed nothing to the Welsh-local-communitiesl. On top of that councilors argued that m/homes hogged the foreshore's car-parks etc.  At the time I had no interest in m/homes so just listened to what seemed like honest and valid opinions.  But when I last visited Anglesey 12 months ago I did notice that No Overnight Parking signs were in evidence.  The Holyhead Ferry operators have made it known to the local councillors, that keeping camper types away will hit the port extremely hard financialy and this could have a knock-on effect. The tiny villages are unable to cope with the width of m/homes as they fill the tiny street and tower over the small terraced cottages thus blocking out all the available daylight into their small cottage windows. I can see the villagers point of view but what is the answere? 
I'm not into caravan sites either. I refere to them as Tin-Towns. If they all were to become motorised there would be an even bigger problem.
Take care


----------



## bernardfeay (Aug 20, 2010)

We always park more or less where we like. I don't like the idea of being on a campsite and having to follow protocol. Some people like to gossip with others, we don't. Guess I'm not really shy, more antisocial.


----------



## guyd (Aug 20, 2010)

buy local. keep local shops going. keep local area as you like it. dont buy from teco et al. As stated - by some - 100K mh and too tight to pay for a camp site - and too tight to pay an extar quid for a 4 pack of beer from the local shop - no they drive 10 miles to tesco to save a quid. 

Caveat - I live in a tourist town. I see this all day long. and 99% of MH owners are stressed to f**k and grumpy as f**k and cant drive for toffee down any narrow road. - Laugh? I nearly bought a 32' motorhome!


----------



## MarcJ (Aug 21, 2010)

Edforth - you make it sound really bad trying to wild camp in the uk:
"Due to my recent experiences and chatting to numerous other m/homers during the last several weeks Im now utterly against m/homing within the UK. It seems to me that our only viable choice for m/homers is to go south to France and beyond."
It takes a bit more thought nowadays, but totally doable in the uk. Googling the area you want to stay for camp sites is easier than driving around looking for somewhere to park up for free or trying to find info on free overnighting.
I thought that was what this site was about - so we can all share the experience!
I'd point you in the direction of getting access to the satellite list of wild camping.....but then you'd ask why I aint paid my £15 yet. I'm a freeloader too..


----------



## Dezi (Aug 21, 2010)

Hi, Absolutely NO problem with parking wild in the UK. A quick perusal of the appropriate areas on this site will establish that. I have been wilding for many years and apart from the odd time when we use a pub site, because we fancy a meal out, then we always wild. The only problem from what I have gathered from the last few posts is possibly the size of the motor home. Ours is a panel van, so obviously is smaller and therefore a lot less obtrusive than the average coach built. If 50 million lorry drivers can find somewhere to stop overnight without paying, how difficult can it be for us? (O.K.  O.K. Maybe it just seems like 50 squillion at times)   

Dezi


----------



## Nolly (Aug 21, 2010)

After spending the past 2 months wilding in England and Wales, I can only say that we will be looking forward to next years trip to the UK. There are lots of places out there waiting to be be found. By communicating with the locals and passing the time of day we found that we were made welcome and often given suggestions on places to overnight. 
Respect & enjoy.

Regards Nolly


----------



## Edforth (Aug 21, 2010)

Quote: "If 50 million lorry drivers can find somewhere to stop overnight without paying, how difficult can it be for us? (O.K. O.K. Maybe it just seems like 50 squillion at times):Un-Quote.

Mostly the lorry drivers park-up at their Drop-off location and sleep. Their tack-o-graph proves they were not loitering in the cabs when they should have been working.


----------



## Edforth (Aug 21, 2010)

Hi all,
I have just discovered the following document:


Motor Caravan Aires and Wild Camping in suitable locations
by johnthompson on July 19, 2010 at 01:43PM

Permitting Motor Caravans to park in locations other than licenced or exempted caravan sites will require the Public Health Act 1937 section 286 and The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 being ammended.
THe 1937 Act defines what constitues a caravan and the 1960 Act requires that Caravan Sites are licenced or carry an exemption issued by certain clubs and bodies. A Caravan is defined as being a vehicle or vessel that has been built or adapted for human habitation and does not recognise a difference between a Static, Touring(trailer) or Motor Caravan.
Modern Motor Caravans are totaly different and contain superior sanitary and habitation equipment to those envisaged in the 1930s and 1950s. Motor Caravans are in fact luxury hotels on wheels these days with Bedrooms, Kitchens and bathrooms with hot water and showers and sealed toilets.
A recognition that a motor caravan parking overnight does not need the same facilities as a touring caravan is required.
A recognition of the diference between camping and parking (including using the vehicle for cooking and sleeping) is required.
Motor Caravans are much heavier than touring caravans and existing grass caravan sites can prove unsuitable for them in wet weather. A Motor Caravan simply needs a firm level surface to park on and from time to time access to basic facilities for drinking water and to dispose of wet and dry waste.
Camping as defined in regulations for Camping Cars abroard is putting anything including Tables, Chairs, steps, waste and water containers, Awnings, ramps etc outside of the vehicle. There are no restrictions on what you can do within a parked vehicle.
Modern Motor Caravans are totaly self contained and only need facilities to get fresh water and dump black and grey water every few days. They are designed to carry these loads unlike touring caravans.
Local Authorities have the power at present to allow Aire type stopovers on land owned or leased by them under section 11 of the 1960 Act. Few have used this power.
Britain is unfriendly to visiting motor caravan users as we require them to join one of our clubs to use a reasonably priced Certificated site or some of the club sites. Otherwise thay need to use highly priced commercial or club sites.
We can enjoy using our Motor Caravans abroad without such restrictions using the many municipal and private Aires available at very low or even no cost other than a couple of Euros to obtain drinking water.
It has been recognised since the 1960s abroard that Motor Caravan users bring trade into areas they visit, as they need to buy supplies and will use and visit local amenities and eating places. It is time the UK recognised this and became more welcoming to travelling visitors. Many of our authorities are still in the B&B mindset with regards to taking holidays, or are "Traveller" phobic.
Action needed:
Examine and revoke or re-write the 1937 and 1960 acts to bring them into line with todays developments.
Instruct local authorities to remove restrictions preventing the use for cooking and sleeping in parked Motor Caravans.
A recognition that a motor caravan parking overnight does not need the same facilities as a touring caravan is required.
A recognition of the difference between camping and parking (including using the vehicle for cooking and sleeping) is required.
Require local Authorities to make use of existing underused parking spaces at night such as Coach Bays or car parks to permit the overnight parking of Motor Caravans.
Remove height barriers from some parts of otherwise restricted car parks so that larger vehicles can gain access. (Restrictions could still apply to the type of use to which these spaces are permitted to be used for ie no commercial vehicles or trading, and the length of stay permitted).
Why the contribution is important
The Acts governing what constitutes a Caravan and where it can be used are outdated and in need of review. 
Modern developments have overtaken these acts adopted in the 1930 and 1950s.
Is this idea inappropriate?


----------



## jogguk (Aug 21, 2010)

Edforth said:


> Hi all,
> I have just discovered the following document:
> 
> Motor Caravan Aires and Wild Camping in suitable locations
> ...



Ah see this it will become clear

John


----------



## Edforth (Aug 22, 2010)

Old_Arthur said:


> we all do have differant idea's but most of mine are right and others are wrong  it's human nature to think like this,that why the world is like it is but like every forum only get involved and take part in that what suits you and just read the other parts



Please, please, please post all your free camping spots and places where you park-up day and night -- as that way I wont be unfortunate and run into you.

Otherwise take care.


----------



## Dezi (Aug 22, 2010)

Edforth said:


> Quote: "If 50 million lorry drivers can find somewhere to stop overnight without paying, how difficult can it be for us? (O.K. O.K. Maybe it just seems like 50 squillion at times):Un-Quote.
> 
> Mostly the lorry drivers park-up at their Drop-off location and sleep. Their tack-o-graph proves they were not loitering in the cabs when they should have been working.



Really!  Then who exactly are in the myriad of lorries that park up overnight in the lay-bys that I use occasionally when on long trips. Retires hauliers perhaps, now using the vehicle for a bit of sight seeing? I think not. 

Dezi


----------



## Kontiki (Aug 22, 2010)

I personally wouldn't think that most of the laybys could be called wildcamping as they are only any use for stopping overnight somewhere on route. Where's the enjoyment being parked at the side of road.  It is unfortunate that there are a limited amount of good wildcamping spots where you can relax without the worry of being moved on or having your peace interrupted in the middle of the night.
Until there is a change allowing some type of aires places to stop we are made to feel unwelcome, its a pity more people didn't sign up to John's petition on the Your Freedom website (only 101 votes ) it should have been the duty of everybody on the site to at least sign up to it & make a comment  there should have been a few thousand comments but instead people have a moan on a forum that is only read by people who have an interest in the subject but does nothing regarding getting the message out to people who can make a difference. 

It would be nice if we could get a co-ordinated campaign to make it a big issue, many of us belong to other forums just look how Locksmiths's story spread & hopefully pushed Dunghills into resolving the issue.


----------



## Edforth (Aug 22, 2010)

Dezi said:


> Really!  Then who exactly are in the myriad of lorries that park up overnight in the lay-bys that I use occasionally when on long trips. Retires hauliers perhaps, now using the vehicle for a bit of sight seeing? I think not.
> 
> Dezi



Hi Dezi
With hijacking of lorries including their cargo's at a peak --secure lorry parks have become the norm for lorry parking otherwise their Insurances and Cargo Cover becomes 'Void'.  Small self employed owner-drivers take a chance on parking overnight to get some shut-eye. Thats common sense. Large hauliers are more responsible because they can afford to pay less than an Owner-driver can afford to live upon. Hope that answers your question.


----------



## Edforth (Aug 22, 2010)

Kontiki said:


> I personally wouldn't think that most of the laybys could be called wildcamping as they are only any use for stopping overnight somewhere on route. Where's the enjoyment being parked at the side of road.  It is unfortunate that there are a limited amount of good wildcamping spots where you can relax without the worry of being moved on or having your peace interrupted in the middle of the night.
> Until there is a change allowing some type of aires places to stop we are made to feel unwelcome, its a pity more people didn't sign up to John's petition on the Your Freedom website (only 101 votes ) it should have been the duty of everybody on the site to at least sign up to it & make a comment  there should have been a few thousand comments but instead people have a moan on a forum that is only read by people who have an interest in the subject but does nothing regarding getting the message out to people who can make a difference.
> 
> It would be nice if we could get a co-ordinated campaign to make it a big issue, many of us belong to other forums just look how Locksmiths's story spread & hopefully pushed Dunghills into resolving the issue.



Hi Kontiki,
I agree with your sentiments entirely. And yes I have a 'cunning plan' to help equipe m/homers with more than sufficient 'Aires within the UK.'

1: I dont beleive that Petitioning Governments is anything like an answer to our plight simply because government is lazy and it would take too long for them to react  Also because they havent got a 'profit motive to act upon' in the first instance.
2: I beleive that 'Private Industry' - is the way to go. All that is required is to show that a profit is waiting to be harvested, and only then will the Horse pull the cart towards the carrot, but quicker.

I dont want to reveal too much at this point but promise to advise further in a later posting.
Take care


----------



## Slowhand (Aug 22, 2010)

Tell me, go on.

You are going to buy all the P.P. truckstops and convert them into aires.


 Eric


----------



## maingate (Aug 22, 2010)

It would be interesting to see a list of secure truckstops.

They have all disappeared in my neck of the woods. The only one I know is the one at Hull which allows m/homes to overnight.

This could possibly be added as a new category on this website. ie; Similar to 'Post your pub stopovers'.


----------



## Dezi (Aug 22, 2010)

maingate said:


> It would be interesting to see a list of secure truckstops.
> 
> They have all disappeared in my neck of the woods. The only one I know is the one at Hull which allows m/homes to overnight.
> 
> This could possibly be added as a new category on this website. ie; Similar to 'Post your pub stopovers'.




Hi, I have used this site for truck information over the years. 

TRUCK STOPS LORRY PARKS TRANSPORT CAFES

Dezi


----------



## maingate (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks for that info Dezi.

ps; I should not be talking to you after the horrible things you have said about my good friend Arthur. He is not all there you know. Poor beggar.


----------



## Deleted member 967 (Aug 22, 2010)

Edforth said:


> I dont beleive that Petitioning Governments is anything like an answer to our plight simply because government is lazy and it would take too long for them to react  Also because they havent got a 'profit motive to act upon' in the first instance.



From the Your Freedom website:



> We're working to create a more open and less intrusive society through our Programme for Government. We want to restore Britain’s traditions of freedom and fairness, and free our society of unnecessary laws and regulations – both for individuals and businesses.
> 
> This site gives you the chance to tell us which laws and regulations you think we should get rid of. Your feedback will inform government policy and some of your proposals could end up making it into bills we bring before Parliament to change the law. We've had an excellent response so far, receiving thousands of ideas, comments and votes.
> 
> ...



If we do not put forward or back ideas how, on earth can we expect the government to even consider our case.

AndyC on another forum has expressed an interest in being part of a group to try to move the situation of Aire along.  Are any members of this group interested.  If so PM me please.

John


----------



## Basil (Aug 22, 2010)

I have just returned from a two week holiday touring Wales... With a mix of wilding or free parking with a site or two thrown in....
I thought the difference between wilding and free parking was between a nice location or a car park....
The reason that we have good motorhomes with all of the facilities is so that we can wild and not use campsites.... and we are not tight arses of folks with short arms and long pockets.... or dare I say it Scotish.... by reputation only and not reality
Therefore if a person wants assuming he or she is able to find the money and spend it on an 80K unit it is quite justifiable....and he or she should not feel the need to use campsites....
Otherwise we could save money by not having ant 12volt fittings and appliancies....


----------



## Slowhand (Aug 22, 2010)

Dezi said:


> Hi, I have used this site for truck information over the years.
> 
> TRUCK STOPS LORRY PARKS TRANSPORT CAFES
> 
> Dezi



Unfortunately it's years out of date.We also have to find our own spots and it is best not to divulge them.


----------



## barnybg (Aug 23, 2010)

*Ridiculous*

I have added my contrabution and thank you for sharing this Govt. site with me/us.
I have  put forward another idea,that i think is a little unfair,conserning motorists travelling in the EU.
While travelling in a Motorhome or any vehicle,and for instance one of the three documents you need to travel lawfully, runs out...Insurance,MOT and TAX,you have to travel back (which could mean 2000 miles) to your original issue-ing country (UK) for me,and visa versa for a Greek,Spaniard or Bulgarian,but as we're in the EU,and have rights to travel freely (apparantly) in said countries it seems stupid to have to do this,when any country _ could _ be used for said documents,as all are recognised throughout Europe !
The only option at the moment is to re-register/export vehicle,which if you look should be done after ...6 months !
Surely this should be ammended,especially for motorhomes,who travel away,long stay.What do you say ? 
It's under EU ,tax mot and insuring on the same site,please leave input .


----------



## Dezi (Aug 23, 2010)

Slowhand said:


> Unfortunately it's years out of date.We also have to find our own spots and it is best not to divulge them.




Hi, Two minor points. 1] Some information on truckstops is years old, but that is not the same as being years out of date.  2 ] If you do not intend to divulge ( share) information, may I ask what sort of reception you anticipate getting from members when you ask a question ?

Dezi


----------



## Dezi (Aug 23, 2010)

maingate said:


> Thanks for that info Dezi.
> 
> ps; I should not be talking to you after the horrible things you have said about my good friend Arthur. He is not all there you know. Poor beggar.





A priest asked Voltaire on his deathbed to renounce Satan.
Voltaire replied "Now, now my good man, this is no time for making more enemies".

So stop trying to lead me astray young man. I have sufficient individuals wishing to see my head mounted on a pike, without incurring the wrath of the Doncaster mafia. 

Dezi


----------



## Slowhand (Aug 24, 2010)

Dezi said:


> Hi, Two minor points. 1] Some information on truckstops is years old, but that is not the same as being years out of date.  2 ] If you do not intend to divulge ( share) information, may I ask what sort of reception you anticipate getting from members when you ask a question ?
> 
> Dezi



 I expect nothing. The info I was speaking about was truck parking spots that are best not divulged, I've lost many a great overnight stop because of selfish gits finding them and ruining them .

Many of the truckstops in the POI you quote are shut now. Not my doing and not what I want, merely an observation.

Eric


----------



## Y5kot (Nov 16, 2010)

*What A thread*

Man what a thread. I have just sat and read the lot all in one go. It seems that some where in the middle of the thread newbies came under some attack. I am new to this site.
I have been a camper since a child and started camping as a family only 10 years ago progressing from a tent -trailer tent- folding camper and then now to our lovely motorhome.
I haven't joined as yet but intend to. I am doing my reasearch to give me enough ammunition to talk the good lady into it - so far so good but still along way to go. The reason for wanting to "wild camp" is to get away a litle bit further a feild. We DA camp everyweeked and I see wild camping as the next stage in my camping experience.
I do feel that some newbe's to this have been given a little stick especially from Barnyby and regarding a motorhome worth more than 30k and the statement "motorhome lot" is a bit harsh. I am both a newby and a "motohome lot" but feel I have a lot to learn from many on this site. It's not nice to be victomised for trying to do something you love.  I already abide by all the camping rules anyway. That said a good thread and debate between wild and free. For what it is worth I see wild camping as freedom of choice weather it be to pay not pay, car park or a beach - When I have found some wild spots I will share with you all as think this is the backbone of this great website


----------



## Deleted member 3802 (Nov 16, 2010)

i there,the newbie's you refer to are they still posting ??most were trolls


----------



## John H (Nov 16, 2010)

BarnyBG

I think you'll find that if your Road Tax and Insurance run out while you are abroad (as ours have done in the past) you can renew them either by post or online. The documents can then be posted to any address you nominate by a friend/relative who collects them from your doorstep - or possibly by the organisation concerned but we haven't tried this. There is the drawback of needing an address but you could use a mail office box.

As for the MOT - I agree absolutely with you. You have to go "home" for that and it is bloody annoying when there are similar systems in operation all over the EU and we are all supposed to be members of the same community. I'd certainly back any campaign to change the rules here. In the meantime, before heading abroad we always make sure we have an MOT that is going to be valid long after we plan to return.


----------



## caspar (Nov 16, 2010)

John H said:


> BarnyBG
> 
> I think you'll find that if your Road Tax and Insurance run out while you are abroad (as ours have done in the past) you can renew them either by post or online. The documents can then be posted to any address you nominate by a friend/relative who collects them from your doorstep - or possibly by the organisation concerned but we haven't tried this. There is the drawback of needing an address but you could use a mail office box.
> 
> As for the MOT - I agree absolutely with you. You have to go "home" for that and it is bloody annoying when there are similar systems in operation all over the EU and we are all supposed to be members of the same community. I'd certainly back any campaign to change the rules here. In the meantime, before heading abroad we always make sure we have an MOT that is going to be valid long after we plan to return.


 
You ARE a rebel - I knew it


----------



## NicknClair (Nov 16, 2010)

My reasons to Wild - pain and simple! 99% of the time, a registered site is miles away from where we want to be (Tourist attraction/town/fantastic views etc etc).
If a more local and suitable location is found, plain and simple it saves a bloody long walk or cycle ride to get to it. Not from the fact its Free or Not, but mine's on a convenience point of view. If a town (like France where there are the Aires or Municipal Sites) that have facilities are very close, I will use them quite happily. Pub Car Parks - like there's an issue there , but best of all are hidden gems in and around Canals/Forests etc.
For me it's not about the fact is free or not, but me and the wife to use the van with  the Freedom of being able to visit here, there and everywhere with ease.


----------



## John H (Nov 16, 2010)

caspar said:


> You ARE a rebel - I knew it


 
Well, yes - but I can't see the rebellion in my post - it is all perfectly well within the rules. I can be a lot more rebellious than that!!


----------



## caspar (Nov 16, 2010)

Good! I'm very glad to hear it. I really wish we could meet - I'd LOVE to put a face to the name! Your tenacity is admirable.


----------



## Firefox (Nov 16, 2010)

I do all three:

Campsites, wildcamping, and stealth camping.

There are wildcampers who don't like stealth campers, and campsite aficionados  who don't like either of the other two.

I'd say horses for courses. Do what suits your schedule and your pocket. To be honest, site camping even on CLs can mean quite a lot of planning ahead as the sites get booked, even if people don't show. I'm very much a spur of the moment person. I don't like booking ahead, espec many months in advance.

On forums such as outandaboutlive (is that the MMM associated forum?) my opinion is that the management and the readership tends to go hand in glove with the official converters and site providers. Most of these magazine or website ventures are partly funded by advertising and the traders who provide stuff "free" for review even whole motorhomes for 6 months, so they can hardly be impartial.

The theme of them tends to be buy this, buy that, insure this, insure that, health and saftey, can't be too careful, spend some money..... so home conversions and wild camping are rather alien to their cause despite the odd mention or olive branch they may offer in that direction.


----------



## John H (Nov 16, 2010)

caspar said:


> Good! I'm very glad to hear it. I really wish we could meet - I'd LOVE to put a face to the name! Your tenacity is admirable.


 
Why is it that you manage to sound so patronising? Perhaps its because you are being so patronising. I still prefer friends who don't think it amusing to deliberately mislead others who might be in trouble. Pick on me all you like - I can give as good as I get - but there are people out there with no knowledge of the law who might in the past (I doubt if they will now) have believed your "advice". By the way, are you following me?


----------



## caspar (Nov 16, 2010)

http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums...-any-legal-eagles-out-there-7.html#post117429


----------



## caspar (Nov 16, 2010)

http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/general-chat/11827-john-h.html#post117434


----------



## maingate (Nov 16, 2010)

Firefox said:


> I do all three:
> 
> Campsites, wildcamping, and stealth camping.
> 
> ...


 
Now then Firebox, I am a member of outandaboutlive and I am certainly not a pillar of the establishment.
It is a very good site for technical help but it does have its share of knowitalls with a snotty attitude. They used to be very arrogant with newbies but thankfully their manners have improved lately. I had a go at one or two of them and maybe it has made a difference. Taking the mickey can be a powerful weapon sometimes.

A number of them do wildcamp and some are occasional posters on here. I am not telling you my name on there but the avatar should give it away. I have not posted for a while as there have been quite boring subjects lately.


----------



## Firefox (Nov 16, 2010)

True, I'm not particularly knocking them. Indeed I buy MMM quite regularly. But like the tabloids I tend to take some of what is written with a pinch of salt bearing in mind they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them.

There's probably even been more of an acceptance of unconventional camping now than there has been in the past. I remember the MMM "Height fight" back from the 1980's but it has always been on the basis that Mr and Mrs Pinkerton-Smythe could pick up their weekly shopping in the the coachbuilt rather than "heaven forbid" someone would have the temerity to spend the odd night in an otherwise empty car park


----------



## Deleted member 775 (Nov 16, 2010)

intresting thread :and some eaqualy intresting ideas.  wild camping to me is waking up miles from anyware and away from the crowds  and almost always free if you have any sense, free camping is parking whare you do not have to pay car parks laybies exetera camp sites ok if you dont mind paying through the nose for a bit of grass and expensive leccy that if you have your telly on and you use a leccy kettle together trips your meter , as for me the first two are the way to go i love the word FREE, EVEN FREELOADER, we have had 18 months in the van and never payed for a nights parking up once. i pay enough tax insurance and tax on petrol so wilding free or free wilding is my way to go,  but then again i was born and grew into an old tight fisted yorkshire man but i now live is south wales and love the place  its a secret i found one day


----------



## David & Ann (Nov 17, 2010)

I have been motorhoming for 51 years and have never ever stayed at a campsite. I am on the same wavelength as Mandrake, whereby, it is the quiet areas that is my cup of tea. I love being near water, with the offside wheel on sand and nearside wheel on hard ground (LHD) when possible. Here are a few places you can achieve that.
La Barrosa (Chiclana de la Frontera) Conil de la Frontera, Tarifa, Torreguadiaro, Fuengirola, La Cala del Moral, Rincion de la Victoria, Torrox Costa, Nerja, Majorca. I could go on and on.


----------



## coolasluck (Nov 17, 2010)

100 per cent with you guys i have been wild camping for 73 years and never paid for a nights kip,i also have a bigger motor home than the lot of you and always have.


----------



## maingate (Nov 17, 2010)

coolasluck said:


> 100 per cent with you guys i have been wild camping for 73 years and never paid for a nights kip,i also have a bigger motor home than the lot of you and always have.


 
Walter Mitty is alive and well I see.


----------



## Deleted member 775 (Nov 18, 2010)

coolasluck said:


> 100 per cent with you guys i have been wild camping for 73 years and never paid for a nights kip,i also have a bigger motor home than the lot of you and always have.


 
thers an old saying size dont matter its what you can do with it that realy counts but then again if your gona have one you might as well have A BIG ONE


----------



## David & Ann (Nov 18, 2010)

mandrake said:


> thers an old saying size dont matter its what you can do with it that realy counts but then again if your gona have one you might as well have A BIG ONE


 
Always buy the best that you can AFFORD. Any other way is, Pound(£) foolish, penny wise.


----------



## Bonnierider (May 16, 2011)

Interesting thread. I've just been looking for a campsite anywhere on the Norfolk coast to give my newly acquired camper it's first proper run. Nearly all fully booked, found one with spaces but they charge for all three nights of the bank holiday when I can only get away for two plus a surcharge to take my dog. That means over £110 to park on an unserviced pitch for two nights - except I can't go there anyway because I'm single! "No single occupancy" - what trouble do they expect from a divorced middle aged professional looking for somewhere to park up with a nice view, take the dog for a walk and read a book until bedtime without using any of their "facilities"?

I bought a camper, precisely because I don't know that much in advance when I can scoot off for a break and was tired of looking for holiday cottages in the right place, that allow dogs and are free at short notice. Not, because I object to paying for things. Glad I found this site! (Web, not camping..)


----------



## Canalsman (May 17, 2011)

Bonnierider said:


> Interesting thread. I've just been looking for a campsite anywhere on the Norfolk coast to give my newly acquired camper it's first proper run. Nearly all fully booked, found one with spaces but they charge for all three nights of the bank holiday when I can only get away for two plus a surcharge to take my dog. That means over £110 to park on an unserviced pitch for two nights - except I can't go there anyway because I'm single! "No single occupancy" - what trouble do they expect from a divorced middle aged professional looking for somewhere to park up with a nice view, take the dog for a walk and read a book until bedtime without using any of their "facilities"?
> 
> I bought a camper, precisely because I don't know that much in advance when I can scoot off for a break and was tired of looking for holiday cottages in the right place, that allow dogs and are free at short notice. Not, because I object to paying for things. Glad I found this site! (Web, not camping..)


 
Welcome to the site 

In case you haven't yet picked up on it, there's a database of wildcamping spots in England, Wales and Scotland that's available to full members ...

I look after this database, and the download is for use with Google Earth, and includes POI files for various makes of satnav. There are currently just under 2,500 places listed, and that's going to increase to almost 3,000 in the next few weeks.

This download might well help solve your dilemma - there are a fair few spots around Norfolk, including the coast.

A good £15's worth I reckon

Regards

Chris


----------



## fofeg101 (May 17, 2011)

vwalan said:


> dont use club houses as they are full of people i dont like. dont actually use pubs muchas same people frequent them as well.


+1....anyone ever over heard an intelligent conversation in a pub?


----------



## Bonnierider (May 18, 2011)

Canalsman said:


> Welcome to the site
> 
> In case you haven't yet picked up on it, there's a database of wildcamping spots in England, Wales and Scotland that's available to full members ...
> 
> Heh, had already joined and loaded it to my TomTom by the time I saw your reply! Cheers, almost spoilt for choice now


----------



## Paul60 (May 21, 2011)

*Wild Camping*



tonybater said:


> I have been searching for suitable wild camping spots on other web sites and came across a long thread which turned into a debate about wild camping - well more of a rant really! Contributors were moaning about motorhome owners who spend thousands of pounds on their outfits and are then too mean to pay for camp site fees.
> 
> I think they are missing the point completely. To me, wild camping is not about saving a few pounds - I am perfectly happy to pay up for my overnight stay - it is about the freedom of going and staying where you want, when you want, often spontaneously - no forward planning - in fact exactly what encouraged me to buy a motor home in the first place. There were suggestions that we should all use CS/CLs instead. I am a member of the Caravan Club, but have rarely used CLs as I find that especially during peak season, there are no spaces available when you get there, and you are encouraged to book ahead - so much for freedom and spontenaity!
> 
> Do others think like me - that wild camping is about freedom rather than free camping?


 
Hi Tony.  I am new to this and it's just me and the dog.  I want to park in the middle of nowhere and let my dog roam without troubling anyone else.  I do not want to be parked next to some boring old fart or a family with noisy kids on a camp site.  I enjoy the solitude and freedom of parking away from the main areas.  I would be prepared to pay for my stops that is not an issue.  Until the forestry Commision or the like get their act together, I will park for free.  It's a strange mentallity in this country that we have hundreds of square miles of empty land owned by us - the taxpayer - yet we are not supposed to use it.

Paul


----------



## Pollik (May 21, 2011)

I use campsites very occasionally - usually because I just want to stop moving for a while, put the awning out, get the BBQ out and generally laze about, oh and a decent shower.  I don't mind paying for that - with camping cheque out of season, maximum £15 pn.  I never use the other facilities apart from water and waste.

The rest of the time I wild.  I prefer to avoid the paying aires unless there is a particular attraction, say Pisa or something.  I take the view that free aires are placed where the town openly welcomes MHs - I go there, do my shopping in the local shops (avoiding the national chains).  Too many of the paying aires rely on tokens which, somehow, are almost never available when I arrive - there is another thread covering this particular debate in some depth.  I mainly avoid campsites because I don't think that €25 is very good value for water, waste and pitch...and because they can be noisy busy places.

But I don't ignore the savings by going while. Last time I was out for 90 days.  If we say £15 per night, that is £1,350 which I couldn't have afforded while also maintaining a house.  It is also money I would rather give to local traders for things I want or need, rather than giving it to town council (the aire, I assume, is meant to attract business for traders) or paying over the odds for addons that I neither want nor need.

Diverse lot, aren't we?


Polly


----------



## minky1958 (May 23, 2011)

*Wild camping*

We are novice motorhomers and so far have only stayed on sites. We would love to park and camp but so far have not done this. We are unsure about the law regarding this so would appreciate any info.


----------



## Deleted member 967 (May 23, 2011)

minky1958 said:


> We are novice motorhomers and so far have only stayed on sites. We would love to park and camp but so far have not done this. We are unsure about the law regarding this so would appreciate any info.


 
Hi Minky

The info you require is here:  http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/general-chat/1233-wild-camping-how-guide-15.html#post126921


----------



## Bonnierider (May 24, 2011)

The post quoted above states the basic position. There are a couple of other considerations - driving onto private land for more than a set distance (which temporarily escapes me) is an offence, but one which only carries a nominal fine with no penalty points, and only if for purposes other than parking. Back into someone's driveway to turn round, an offence. Park in it, then it's simply trespass, no offence committed.

Another consideration is Drunk in Charge. There are more complete threads on here regarding that, but basically if you're in charge of a vehicle in a public place and are over the limit, you can be prosecuted. Public place, broadly speaking, is somewhere that the general public have access to, on payment of a fee or otherwise. Such as, a car park. You have a statutory defence if you weren't going to actually drive until under the limit again, but the onus would be on you to prove that you would have been sober by the time you drove off. That can involve you obtaining a toxicology report costing hundreds of pounds. If you win, you can claim the cost back from central court funds, but personally, I'd avoid the whole thing by not drinking in the first place.

Short answer, just be sensible. Parking somewhere overnight is not against the law, ergo sleeping in a parked vehicle isn't either.


----------



## barryd (May 24, 2011)

Bonnierider said:


> if you're in charge of a vehicle in a public place and are over the limit, you can be prosecuted. Public place, broadly speaking, is somewhere that the general public have access to, on payment of a fee or otherwise. Such as, a car park.


 
Or a Campsite!

Its like Gas attacks.  They have never happened.  The coppers will not do you for drink in charge if wild camping.  End of.


----------



## Bonnierider (May 24, 2011)

Could in theory include a campsite, but far less likely - depends upon what proportion of the public have access to it. End of the day, as long as you're parked somewhere you're unlikely to be moved on from, issue never arises.


----------



## Pollik (May 24, 2011)

Bonnierider said:


> Park in it, then it's simply trespass, no offence committed...
> 
> if you're in charge of a vehicle in a public place and are over the limit, you can be prosecuted. Public place, broadly speaking, is somewhere that the general public have access to,



So on the basis that parking on private land is not illegal, the drink issue applies pretty much anywhere, then.  In theory.

(There is a story I can tell of someone parking on my land.)



Polly


----------



## Bonnierider (May 26, 2011)

Pollik said:


> So on the basis that parking on private land is not illegal, the drink issue applies pretty much anywhere, then.  In theory.
> 
> (There is a story I can tell of someone parking on my land.)
> 
> ...


 
Road traffic law, is a minefield - and illegal means different things, depending upon whether you're talking civil or criminal actions. If you want to pm me I'd happily give an opinion, but it really isn't safe to generalise!


----------



## Pollik (May 26, 2011)

All law is a minefield.  You don't see poor lawyers.

They draft the law and we pay them interpret it and to look for loopholes.

It is a great gig.

Long story short, I had someone park in my carpark (I had a village shop) while he disappeared for the weekend.  I had no signs put up.  The police couldn't help, obviously, because it was private land, although they did go through series of 'helpful' advice as to why I shouldn't simply push it off my land.  A friend of mine had previously described a similar problem concerning his parents' farm.

The car park was 100% accessible to the public.



> basically if you're in charge of a vehicle in a public place and are over the limit, you can be prosecuted



That was the basis on which I commented that it might apply pretty much anywhere.



Polly


----------



## donkey too (May 26, 2011)

Pollik said:


> So on the basis that parking on private land is not illegal, the drink issue applies pretty much anywhere, then.  In theory.
> 
> (There is a story I can tell of someone parking on my land.)
> 
> ...



Parking on my land certainly is illegal. By who's law? BY MY LAW. I own the land. or rather I and a group of people do:mad2:O.K. We couldn't do much about it by law without going through the courts to get the offender removed. But we also could not garantee the safety of the parked vehicle whilst it is on the land and we have a notice to that effect.  I once backed the slurry spreader up to the parked vehicle and turned it on. They couldn't get the window closed fast enough. LOL. Letting young bullocks loose in the same field also has an effect, There are ways and means of moving them which is faster and cheaper than the courts. 
Saying all this I do help to run a camp site on this land for Charity and other organised groups. and we have never turned away someone who wanted to park for the night when they have asked first, and not just taken it foir granted that they can park just where they want when they want.


----------



## Bonnierider (Jun 18, 2011)

In response to Polly - you simply describe a vehicle being left in your car park. That could never be anything but trespass, hence why the police weren't interested. A vehicle in your car park occupied by someone who was rat-arsed, would be a different matter. Oh and lawyers don't make laws, you're getting us mixed up with politicians. Your average lawyer thinks the law is even more of an arse than you do.


----------



## Pollik (Jun 18, 2011)

> you're getting us mixed up with politicians



Actually, no, I am not.  Politicians may decide what laws they want to try to put on the statute books, but they are not the one who sit at their computer and metaphorically put pen to paper.  They pay lawyers to do that.

The machinery by which law is created is highly complex, involving a great deal more than implementing the wishes of politicians.  I am not sure a discussion about it falls within the remit of this forum, but I am up for it, if you are.   My background is trust law, with overlap into associated areas such as property and tax, although that is a good few years ago, now.  Through observation, I have also closely followed the creation of new law all the way from convincing government of the need to seeing it on the statute books.  I am by no means an expert, far from it, but I am reasonably well informed and always ready to learn more.


----------



## jovik (Jun 18, 2011)

*wildcamping*



Adriaboy said:


> Tony, I could not agree with you more.
> There is nothing that compares with happening across a beautiful spot and thinking - that'l do for me!


 
this is our first full year wilding and the joy of finding a site with fantastic views and secluded and usually alone iswonderfull:heart:


----------



## chattellis (Jun 18, 2011)

*who is this edforth??*

:sleep-027:who is this shedforth ? is he a spy just trying to get us lot on sites . i have lived my van for nearly 20 years summer in uk winter where its warm .i very rarely us sites and have never had any problems . aslong as u are discreet and polite and leav where u have parked clean and tidy . i supose he is or was acivil servant (maybe not so civil)
stan:sleep-027::shag::sleep-027:
daer donkey doo doo iwould think u might have problems with the boys in blue !


----------

