# USA with dogs



## Hellfire (Dec 27, 2019)

We are starting to plan a four month trip to the USA. Having checked the finances it seems to be much cheaper to ship our motorhome via Sea Bridge rather than hire one, or go through the hassle of buying one there and selling it again.

However, we want to take our two dogs with us. We are fine with the legal requirements of taking dogs into the US, but are looking at the logistics of getting there. Sea Bridge can take our van to Baltimore. So far we have looked at travelling to New York on the QM2, which allows dogs on board, or flying them when we go.

Has anyone else taken their own van and dogs to the US. Thoughts and suggestions appreciated.


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## regent (Dec 27, 2019)

how do you get your dogs back into the uk? without going through quarantine


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## Millie Master (Dec 27, 2019)

regent said:


> how do you get your dogs back into the uk? without going through quarantine


Surely they would have to be in quarantine on re-entering the UK for 6 months?


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## maingate (Dec 27, 2019)

The days of lengthy quarantine seem to be over.

More information here: https://www.gov.uk/take-pet-abroad

Dogs from all over the World enter Crufts, then return home. Dogs from the UK enter Shows all over the World and return home.


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## Hellfire (Dec 28, 2019)

regent said:


> how do you get your dogs back into the uk? without going through quarantine


There is no quarantine for dogs coming in from the USA. Just need a rabies certificate and health certificate.


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## Hellfire (Dec 28, 2019)

Millie Master said:


> Surely they would have to be in quarantine on re-entering the UK for 6 months?


no they don’t. Quarantine has long gone for most countries


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## Sharpie (Dec 28, 2019)

Provided the dogs already have EU pet passports, quarantine on return is not required. Dogs are also required to have had an approved tapeworm treatment between one and five days prior to the return date, with evidence from an official vet who administered it.

See https://www.gov.uk/take-pet-abroad/pet-passport

_"Third-country official veterinary certificate
To enter or return to the EU from listed or unlisted countries you need either:

a third-country official veterinary certificate and any other documents listed on it
a pet passport if your pet was given it before leaving the EU
...
You do not need a third-country official veterinary certificate if both:

your pet was issued with a passport in an EU country before it left
the treatments are still valid
Any booster vaccinations or blood tests carried out from outside the EU must be recorded on a third-country official veterinary certificate."_

The US has its own rules about dogs leaving the country

Details are here: https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/pet-travel. Basically similar rules as returning to UK from EU on a EU passport. USDA or APHIS registered Vet inspection to be fit for travel, administration of approved wormer by them between 1 and 5 days before date of return to Blighty, together with some paperwork, in original ink, with an embossed seal. Plus Vet fees and administration fees/tax.

Not sure what happens if e.g. a return cruise is going to last over 5 days.

Also worth researching what nasties could infect your dogs over there, to which they may have no natural immunity, and taking sensible precautions.





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						Bringing your pet dog, cat or ferret to Great Britain
					

Bringing pets into Great Britain: pet passports, Great Britain pet health certificates, microchipping, rabies vaccinations, travelling with assistance dogs.




					www.gov.uk
				




Don't forget your International Driving Permit, required in some states.





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You'll need a Visa, since you'll be there for more than 90 days.

Then there is the issue of using an EU van with 230V 50 Hz electrics in a 110V 60 Hz country. You may need a transformer to convert the voltage (but not the frequency) if e.g. your battery charger isn't dual voltage.

Something like this might work. NB it is designed for 50 Hz, "portable power tool" rated at 3kW,  so not continuously at that level.

Edit: there is nothing wrong with the site that I linked. Some people are alarmist and react to false triggers, inform Admin, get it taken down for no real reason. I have industrial grade protection and there is nothing wrong there. I'd re-post it but why bother, just do your own research.

I expect there are heavier duty transformers available, designed for the job, this was just the first that I found at a reasonable price. It will probably handle 60 Hz OK. Even US 110V plugs and sockets don't inter-mate with UK yellow 110V ones, so you'd have to change that or make up an adaptor. At least take a yellow socket so you could fit it to the end of a US extension lead, which have to be heavier wire since they draw more than twice the current CF. 230v for the same power. I.e. just converting a UK 16A cable would give you less than 7.7 A equivalent rating, that's just 1760 Watts.

Also different gas systems. E.g a UK POL propane pigtail will not screw into a US gas bottle. Good luck finding e.g. a US POL to W20 pigtail. Maybe even fit a US regulator, but they run their propane at 27 milliBar, which is rather low for our appliances.

Edit: actually it's only 26 millibar, see below.

Other shippers are also available to deliver your van, worth shopping around.

It sounds like a fantastic trip. Friends of mine hired an RV, spent a month there and loved every minute.


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## runnach (Dec 28, 2019)

The current standard for propane and butane is 30 millibar in the uk ...at 27 millibar it still comfortably sits within the tolerances allowed


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## Hellfire (Dec 28, 2019)

Sharpie said:


> Provided the dogs already have EU pet passports, quarantine on return is not required. Dogs are also required to have had an approved tapeworm treatment between one and five days prior to the return date, with evidence from an official vet who administered it.
> 
> See https://www.gov.uk/take-pet-abroad/pet-passport
> 
> ...


Thank you. We are shipping the van with Sea Bridge, people we have met on our current trip have nothing but praise for them, and they can fix us up with a transformer. We have a GasLow refillable system and they can also get us an adapter so we can refill with the US equivalent of Autogas.

The dogs and ourselves are flying and we will use PetAir. We did look at the QM2 but it costs an arm and a leg. It also leaves us with the issue of getting from New York to Baltimore to pick up the van.


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## 2cv (Dec 28, 2019)

I think that for a stay of more than 90 days you will need to acquire a B2 visitor visa before you begin your trip.


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## Drover (Dec 29, 2019)

Can I ask "what's the cost for a return trip for the dogs"
Seabridge looked the best to me when I thought about same trip as you are doing.
However we have 2 french bulldogs and no one wanted to fly them at the time we looked at it.
Any real time info you have might help me look again. Or it will be a short trip with a hire vehicle without the dogs.


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## jagmanx (Dec 29, 2019)

Seabridge is about £3000 each way for a 7 m vehicle (including extras)
Road insurance , £800
Then you have flights and hotels
We are flying to Halifax NS £1800 for return flights and hotel (3 nights)
so £3000 + £3000 + say £2000 and again £1000
So almost £10,000 is my figure for the MoHo etc..we are going for 5.95 months ! (Canada Visa exemption)


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## landoboguy (Dec 29, 2019)

*Just a note for moderators,* my malwarebytes premium has the link to tools today website in post number 7 as containing a trojan, may be false but all the same you may want to check. Sucri said so too but PCrisk didnt

But back on Track, good luck with the USA trip, I love it over there and wish I was in a position to do the same with my 2 dogs too


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## Sharpie (Dec 29, 2019)

Autogas is not widely available in the US. You might want to have a plan B, just in case. And look up where it is available in advance.

They use the ACME fitting, you may already have one if you have an adaptor set already, It's also used in several EU countries.

This thing:: https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/uk-bayonet-w21-8-to-acme-filling-point-adapter/

You take the QM2 for the cruise experience, several nights accommodation, food and entertainment, kennelling and supposedly pampering of the dogs, arrive without jet lag. Obviously that costs a lot of money.


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## Sharpie (Dec 29, 2019)

channa said:


> The current standard for propane and butane is 30 millibar in the uk ...at 27 millibar it still comfortably sits within the tolerances allowed


I think your theoretical knowledge outstrips your practical experience.

30 millibar is a compromise figure introduced when bulkhead regulators became the standard.

The appliances have not changed, the jettings are as before, they do not miraculously auto-detect whether it is propane, butane or a mix and adjust. You may fit a 30 mbar bulkhead regulator to your old van without any changes to the old appliances.

Try it yourself. Things work very well on butane at 30 mbar, instead of the previous 28 mbar standard.

Whereas when using propane they work much better at the original 37 mbar standard. Yes they run at 30 mbar but the drop off in performance is very noticeable. As for using them at 27 mbar US standard (actually I mis-remembered, it is 10.5 inches water column i.e 26.1 mbar), well I have also tried that, and it's not good.

My modern German made van came with a bottle mount propane regulator at 37 mbar. At that time the Germans had not adopted the one-size-fits-all 30 mbar bulkhead regulator concept. The dealer insisted it be changed to the 30 mbar bulkhead regulator with high pressure pigtails, an inferior and far more dangerous arrangement IMO.

FYI 28 mbar is 11.25 inches of water. 30 is 12 inches. 37 is 14.9 inches. Call that 11, 12 and 15 inches for simplicity. Handy to know if you want to check yours with nothing more than some transparent tube in a U, and some water.

Gas flow rate through a jet is roughly in proportion to pressure at these levels, so you can immediately see the differences. Something that really was designed for propane at 37 millibar cannot be expected to work well at 26 millibar.


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## runnach (Dec 29, 2019)

i think if you rr read what you quoted me I simply mentioned that at 27 mbar a propane regulator is still running within the scope  of the gas regs I made no mention of  whether it's performance was detrimental


But on that note,I did once ask the question of other members how they faired with 30 mbar regulators as opposed to the 37 mbar and the consensus was no dicerniible difference .

German vans prior to harmonisation in 2002 an en within en1949 often used 50 mbar regs well documented at the time with direct imports .they did require re jetting .meanwhile the Italians were using variable regulators .

No you can assume theoretical knowledge if you wish but testing vans throughout Europe in the main France issuing landlords certificates I can back it up with practical knowledge too and plenty of it .


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## Sharpie (Dec 30, 2019)

My Globecar was made in 2010, actually it was the show model at the November 2010 NEC exhibition, only completed and delivered two weeks prior.

They are manufactured by Dethleffs. Also branded as Possls in other regions.

It was fitted with a 37 mbar propane regulator connected at the cylinder, UK POL. Extremely well put together, I still have it and have been tempted to re-fit it.

It still bears the official inspection sticker, on the outside of the van, valid until end 2012. Issued by DVGW DVFG. "Sachkundigen -Prufen nach G607. Gepruffte Flussiggas Anlage. Flussiggas-Anlage nachste Prufung 2012". I'd post a photo of it if I knew how.

I don't know where your harmonisation date comes from, but this was how Dethleffs were making them in late 2010.

The then sole UK importers in Newark insisted it be replaced with the inferior bulkhead 30mbar high pressure pigtail system before I collected it. Which they effed up, it leaked quite obviously. Just had to turn the bottle on, pressurise the system, bottle off, light one burner on the hob and time how long before it goes out.

Try again, this time waiting ten minutes or so before trying the burner. Wouldn't even light.

Their fix ? Wrap the olive in white (for water, not gas) PTFE tape, and crank it down harder Shocking.

This is such a simple test to do, I do it every time I disconnect/reconnect anything in the system. If it won't even hold pressure overnight, you have a leak somewhere.

No gas inspection certificate of course.

As well as every one of the extras fitted. TV aerial, reversing sensors, radio etc, you name it, it was all done wrongly. After three return trips I gave up and fixed things myself.





.


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## runnach (Dec 31, 2019)

Firstly I haven't slighted your credentials nor referred to you as ignorant , or implied your practical knowledge is deficient , I don't find it conducive to sensible conversation 

If you are as familiar with log as you suggest I shouldn't have to point out the legislation but for reference bsen12864 and bsen13876 LAV .... The LAV being leisure accommodation vehicles ...October 2003 where the industry decreed 30 mbar regulators should be used in motorhomee and caravans other application such as your rooker kept to the 28  / 37 mbar regime under the same euro norm ....the previous standard being bs3016. 

In practise the industry was slow to change and it is still common to find on German gear and Italian regulators as high as 50 mbar 

You accused me of an arrogant remark when I suggested heat blankets for motorhomers snake oil ..then you went on to give a good explanation of thermal transference concluding a bottle outside gave best performance what I suggested and agree.....if that's the case how can a thermal blanket enhance performance ? It would seem taking money off folk for no benefit is selling a product with little value that's snake oil in my book. 

I won't embarrass the member but insulated a butane bottle and was scratching their head as too why it didn't work ...that I'd the problem 

Finally I mentioned in a thread why ecosystem can and are installed down line and I was labelled as dangerous ...all the installation guidelines suggest on bulk tanks and multi bottle arrangements it is a requirement ....and on that basis I gave my answer. If you know otherwise I would be enlightened to know what legislation dictates or forbids


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## Sharpie (Dec 31, 2019)

Thank you Channa for your reply.

I became somewhat annoyed at your suggestion that propane was perfect and would continue to gasify well in the coldest conditions, which I know not to be the case. I think that I have now educated you in the facts and data, or at least pointed you to some fundamentals.

Likewise your dismissal of those electrically heated covers as "snake oil".

Perhaps it escaped you that they include electrical heaters and warm up the cylinder ?

If you look deeply you can even find electrical heating bands for LPG cylinders in the EU, as well as those for the regulator, that also chills as the gas expands within it. If the gas contains moisture, it shouldn't but it often does, these can freeze up PDQ with various consequences, some quite bad. At best the gas stops flowing.

Your knowledge of emergency control valves etc. seems to be based on static installations, not vehicles.

There are some in the UK who set themselves up as self-appointed authorities in these matters, the National Caravan Council being perhaps the best known. They have some completely loopy nonsense ideas including disconnecting all the habitation electrical system once the engine is running.

If you were gullible you might even be persuaded that an NCC approved sticker was a legal requirement. I see it as a badge of shame.

I can imagine the discussions at the manufacturers who actually do know what they are doing. "Oh deity, do we really need the NCC tax, sticker and make the van almost unusable to comply ? Yes says the salesman, it is a selling feature, the NCC spend so much on publicity that the customer expects it. Groans all around from everyone else."

I'm not here to lecture, but to learn. However it is in my nature to question dubious statements and to call out things that are definitely wrong. I'm sorry if that offends those who can't deal with the most minor constructive criticism, some even like to jump in and criticise when they think they see it happening elsewhere even though it's none of their business.

My best wishes for the New Year shortly to arrive, and I look forward to further discussions on many matters, without the need for argument.


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## maingate (Dec 31, 2019)

Sharpie ... you are not going down well on this forum I suspect. I will put this latest outburst down to New Years Eve and the demon drink. 

Opinions are like ar****les, everyone has one but you don't shove them down peoples throats (yes, a mixed metaphor).

Happy New Year.


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## Sharpie (Jan 1, 2020)

maingate said:


> Sharpie ... you are not going down well on this forum I suspect. I will put this latest outburst down to New Years Eve and the demon drink.
> 
> Opinions are like ar****les, everyone has one but you don't shove them down peoples throats (yes, a mixed metaphor).
> 
> Happy New Year.



Ok , another snarky commentard contributing nothing. Either engage in the discussion politely and intelligently, as I try to do, or ignore it. As for your vitriol, you know nothing about me, nor my drinking habits. But you reveal yourself publicly and it's not pleasant Good day to you.


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## runnach (Jan 1, 2020)

Yet again you have avoided answering my questions and diversified with a obvious dislike for the  Ncc as topical as it is 

Static  / caravan motor caravan experience as such is immaterial I have worked extensively on all three more importantly all use lpg and for the purposes of qualifications all three fall under the scope of LAV module .statics and domestic log installation you do need to hold qualification. In addition I maybe work in torr because as part of my cv I hold a  category 1 certificate in the safe handling of gases fgas . Both lpg and fgas have required working assessment ..that you follow and understand rules. 

You again failed to read my comments on Ecv accurately I never said appliance isolation valves albeit in practice invaluable I am suggesting as the diagram suggests a quarter turn drop handle on the main feed pipe. As this iis a requirement on multi bottle bulk tanks the logical conclusion is it is acceptable on vehicle tanks and you will find the arrangement on many tourers ... In reality a call to the people in Thirsk would perhaps confirm one way or the other they fit the tanks and have an excellent rep on here though I haven't had personal dealing 

You make interesting observation re the Ncc ,but don't forget many manufacturers are members. I personally have little time for them as do some quality systems like iso en 9002


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## maingate (Jan 1, 2020)

Andy, I think we have a returnee to the forum. Someone who was bumped off a while back and has come back under a different name to stir it up again.


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## Deleted member 56601 (Jan 1, 2020)

Thought this thread was about taking dogs to USA   . (would that include hairy dogs?)


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## runnach (Jan 1, 2020)

The thought had occurred


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## Drover (Jan 1, 2020)

Channa, I've had dealings with them peope in thirsk, excellent knowledge they have...
My dogs on the otherhand have no idea how they get to the usa.

Ps, glad I didn't start this thread.


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## Sharpie (Jan 1, 2020)

My apologies to all for taking this thread off topic. I'll  try not to let it happen again.

Channa and I were engaged in a quite different discussion on another thread about accessing the shut off valve of an underslung LPG tank prior to entering Eurotunnel. For which Gasit can supply a solenoid valve alternative.

And another thread about the performance (take off rate) of propane cylinders in extreme cold.

Sorry for allowing this to derail this thread.

My post on this thread was simply intended as a small heads-up that in the US propane is used at 26 mbar pressure, considerably lower than our 30 mbar standard, So if finding it necessary to use a US regulator, e.g. if yours failed over there, there might be a performance issue.

Thats all.


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