# Are we to loose Miller Field Ambleside



## keithhep (Nov 26, 2013)

Closing of Ambleside Aire (Miller Field)
Just read this on the Fun Website. Thought it might be of interest Seemingly it has also been on Facts.

Good afternoon 

Miller Field Motorhome Camping is under threat of imminent, permanent closure. The Lake District National Parks Authority served an Enforcement notice on the site, we appealed against the notice but an inspector appointed by the Planning Inspectorate has upheld the Enforcement Notice following a visit to the site on November 7th 2013. 

The two major reasons given for the Enforcement Notice are a) that the site is located on a functional floodplain and b) the site has a visual impact when viewed from Loughrigg Fell. 

We do not, and never have, disputed either of the above issues but our stance on point a) that the functionality of the floodplain has been improved as a result of works carried out by MFMC and b) the judicious planting of indigenous trees/shrubs/hedges will in time soften the visual impact, have both been pretty much ignored. 

Even during the severe wet weather conditions of October 2009 not a single motorhome was put under any risk; the option to temporarily close the site due to conditions has always been available. 

Our next step is to present our case to our local MP, Mr Tim Farron, and to this end we have a meeting with him on the afternoon of Friday 29th November. We aim to discuss the options available to oppose the Enforcement Notice and we are looking to take as much ammunition as we can to this meeting in order to support our case. 

Consequently we would appreciate your comments, in the form of a reply to this email, stating your past experiences of staying on the site and the benefits your stay has had on the economy of the local area etc..... 

Please do not contact the LDNPA directly as we do not wish to antagonise them further, likewise we do not wish to bombard Mr Farron with correspondence prior to our meeting with him. 

Thank you for taking the time to read this email. Should you feel strongly enough to respond we would request that you do so at your earliest opportunity, we look forward to hearing from you. 

Yours faithfully 

Graeme Drylie


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## bethatthehug (Nov 26, 2013)

Graeme's email address if you want to respond is "mfmcambles@hotmail.com".


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## sasquatch (Nov 26, 2013)

Seems as though some sites in the area have objected to its presence or some incoming 'townies or nimbys'
are trying to have their way.
Try using the economic argument there are places that will welcome motorhomes and benefit,those are the ones I will support.


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## Val54 (Nov 26, 2013)

Sorry to be downbeat but I don't see what talking to an MP now will achieve. As I understand it there is a valid enforcement notice which has been appealed and the case lost. Unless there is some legal fault in the Inspector's reasoning in terms of how he reached his decision then that is the end of the matter. Only a decent planning barrister could advise on that. The MP has no jurisdiction in the matter. The enforcement notice will specify the actions required and period within which they must be completed. You could submit a fresh planning application and enlist help from this community in terms of the sites benefits etc. Happy to help in those circumstances.

Wish I could be more positive.

Dave


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## wildman (Nov 26, 2013)

bethatthehug said:


> Graeme's email address if you want to respond is "mfmcambles@hotmail.com".



I tried that and the email never made it I think the shouts after the horse has bolted is a waste of time. Not read the full thread but I suspect he never had a licence in the first place.


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## james1508 (Nov 26, 2013)

What a shame if it does closes. We stayed there last Friday and  Saturday night and thought it was a great spot. 

Think its worth an Email.


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## Amethyst (Nov 26, 2013)

What a terrible shame to lose that place.

I emailed Graeme with the same email address about an hour ago and it seems to have "gone".

Will post if I get a reply.

Rob


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## bluejet (Nov 26, 2013)

Great place,a regular for us. Just sent email & it seems to have gone ok.

Fingers crossed that we don't lose Miller Field.


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## Deleted member 967 (Nov 27, 2013)

*The Planning Inspectors decision - Millers Field*

The Planning Inspectors decision

http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.u...J=COO.2036.300.12.5990537&NAME=/Decision..pdf


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## Deleted member 967 (Nov 27, 2013)

*United we stand, divided we fall*

This whole issue of Aire needs the real support of Motorhome users, Clubs, Forums and the trade (Dealers and constructors). 

 This is the way it was done in France. The Motorhome Association in NI has had success following the same model. 

 We need a united group. At present everything is too fragmented and disunited. 

 Millers Field has been established without planning permission. The system would not have granted PP but they will now make sure nothing like it will happen on this land now. 

 The only way forward in my opinion is pressure on government to change the rules and separate towable caravans from Motor Caravans in legislation and follow the Spanish model. ie. (Eric Pickles his role as Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government please email him at eric.pickles@communities.gsi ) 


 Motorhome users are permitted to carry out manoeuvres of stopping and parking in the same conditions and with the same limitations as any other vehicle. 
 It is indisputable that the exclusion of certain users must be necessarily motivated and based on reasonable objections such as the external dimensions of the vehicle or the maximum permissible weight (MMA) of the vehicle but not by use of subjective reasons such as: possible uncivilised behaviour by some users such as noise at night, dumping of garbage or waste water onto the public road, monopolization of public space by erecting structures and furnishings or other situations of abuse against which local authorities have effective legal tools to be used in a non-discriminatory manner against all violators, whether users of motorhomes or any other type of vehicle. 
 In car parks if a vehicle is parked properly, without exceeding markings on the delimitation of the parking space, nor exceeds the time permitted, if any, it is irrelevant whether the occupants are inside the vehicle, and the motorhome is no exception, being sufficient that the activity in the interior does not transcend to the exterior by the setting up of elements which surpass the perimeter of the vehicle such as stalls, awnings, levelling devices, stabilizing devices, etc.


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## steco1958 (Nov 27, 2013)

wildman said:


> I tried that and the email never made it I think the shouts after the horse has bolted is a waste of time. Not read the full thread but I suspect he never had a licence in the first place.




The email is mfmcambles@hotmail.com


I have just emailed and it has got through.

Regards

Steve


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## Val54 (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks for the link to the Inspector's decision and having read it I cannot see any way back in planning terms for Miller Field. On the wider point, we all enjoy using continental aires and to see a similar system in the UK would be great. Trying to reverse local authorities negative perceptions will hinge on their ability to legally define a motorhome as opposed to a caravan. If they are then comfortable that issues relating to "travellers" are not compromised, they might start to listen to our arguments about economic benefits and tourism etc., but it will need a forward thinking authority, anyone know one?
In the meantime, continuing positive pressure on decision makers is all that we can do, perhaps we should promote an e-petition to get a debate in Parliament?


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## Andy75 (Nov 27, 2013)

A real shame if this one is lost, I only discovered it this year and have been thrice!  I also got the email from him, and have replied.  
If the powers-that-be think it's a flood plain, no doubt will now be snapped up by a developer and 40 houses will be built on it instead...


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## Deleted member 967 (Nov 27, 2013)

The Rt Hon Eric Pickles MP

Department for Communities and Local Government ( DCLG )

I would like to bring to your and your departmental ministers attention the discrimination being perpetrated by many local and statutory authorities in the UK with respect to users of Motor-homes as a means of transport.

I have submitted Freedom of Information requests to all public and statutory parking providers in the UK. Many of these requests have had to be repeated as no replies were forthcoming from a large number of authorities despite initial acknowledgements and promises of replies within the statutory 20 day limit set by the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Many authorities state point blank that they have no provision for Motor-homes in their car parks and some have set unreasonable weight limits that would exclude medium size cars and people carriers. It is however the Motor-home user that will receive a Penalty Charge Notice and not the users of cars.

Many authorities will state that Motor-homes are not a class of vehicle permitted to park yet when copies of the relevant traffic regulation order are requested they state that the regulations are not available, or the regulations state motor cars are permitted to park.

Motor-homes are category M vehicles the same as any other motor car, (with a special body) as defined by EU regulations and adopted by the UK. Despite this most local authority Traffic Regulation Orders still use the definition of vehicles from the 1984 and 1988 Road Traffic Act. Many will reply that caravans are not allowed to use the car parks yet when challenged they quote the definition of a caravan as a trailer drawn by a motor vehicle. This description does not fit a Motor-home but officials will still confuse them in their communications and orders.

Many authorities are erecting sign-age banning motor-home parking but again there is no statutory backing to these signs and they admit to using them to frighten people. This behaviour surely cannot be tolerated by an democratic government.

Authorities are banning Motor-homes from parking overnight. The reason given is that they admit that cannot enforce there existing rules that say “no sleeping cooking or eating” in parked vehicles. These activities can just as easily be undertaken during daylight hours. Why the ban overnight or even at all. Many authorities say they ban Motor-homes because of the risk of possible uncivilised behaviour by some users such as noise at night, dumping of garbage or waste water onto the public road. These same activities are performed by car and other vehicle users, in fact Motor-homes are the only vehicle to be equipped with their own waste disposal storage and rubbish bins. The Motor-home community will often pick up litter left by other users and dispose of this with their own, however they are being picked on as being the villains. Most authorities do not provide sufficient rubbish disposal facilities or empty them regularly.

Many authorities reply when asked for parking provision availability that there are plenty of caravan sites available. They miss the point that these vehicles are used as a means of transport as well as accommodation. Caravan users are able to park the caravan in a site and use the tow car as transport to visit attractions or do their shopping. Being an integrated unit this is not possible with a Motor-home. Motor-homes are self contained units and do not need the services provided by a caravan site for every overnight stop. They can easily store enough fresh and waste water for 4 or more days before requiring a disposal point.

Abroad and in Northern Ireland there are facilities exclusively for Motor-homes to stop and make use of the provided services. These are basic, level areas without the frills of a caravan site. All that is needed is somewhere to park and obtain fresh water and dispose of wet and dry waste. Many authorities do not see this provision as necessary or desirable. Many quote potential traveller problems but this has been shown not to be a problem in the provision so far in Northern Ireland. Some authorities have woken up to the potential out of season trade that motor-homes can bring to a locality as these vehicles are used year round unlike most caravans and caravan sites are seasonal.  Car Parks are often empty and locked overnight.  There is a potential for any authority and local communities to make some money by providing overnight parking for Motor-homes close to the community, at a reasonable fee.



Would it be possible for your department to circulate to all statutory authorities the following to all statutory authorities:



Motor-home users are permitted to carry out manoeuvres of stopping and parking in the same conditions and with the same limitations as any other category M (passenger carrying) vehicle.

It is indisputable that the exclusion of certain users must be necessarily motivated and based on reasonable objections such as the external dimensions of the vehicle or the maximum permissible weight (MMA) of the vehicle, but not by use of subjective reasons such as: possible uncivilised behaviour by some users such as noise at night, dumping of garbage or waste water onto the public road, monopolization of public space by erecting structures and furnishings or other situations of abuse against which local authorities already have effective legal powers to be used in a non-discriminatory manner against all violators, whether users of motor-homes or any other type of vehicle. 

In car parks if a vehicle is parked properly, without exceeding markings on the delimitation of the parking space, nor exceeds the time permitted, if any, and the necessary fee is paid, if applicable, for the space/s used, it is irrelevant whether the occupants are inside the vehicle, or what what activities they are undertaking therein and the Motor-home is no exception, being sufficient that the activity in the interior does not spill over to the exterior, by the setting up of elements which surpass the perimeter of the vehicle such as tables and chairs, awnings, levelling devices, stabilizing devices, etc. 

As an association The Motor Home Tourism organisation (Motor Caravan Tourism Organisation) is available to assist or advise any authority with any matters related to these matters.

I look forward to your reply.  

John J Thompson


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## gherkin (Dec 27, 2013)

Hi all, just joined this forum to see what had happened to Millers Field. What a disappointing and short-sighted (IMO) decision.

John have you received a reply from Mr Pickles? I'd be interested to read it.

Val54's idea of an epetition looks like a positive step. Has anyone done anything about it?


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## Deleted member 21844 (Jun 4, 2014)

Just passing through Ambleside and noticed a dozen or so Motorhomes parked in Millers Field. Great news!!


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## Andy75 (Jun 4, 2014)

Yup, if you have the chap's mobile number, you can call and he'll give you the code to get in.  They are ignoring any "ban" at the moment, which is great :king:


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## Deleted member 967 (Jun 4, 2014)

gherkin said:


> Hi all, just joined this forum to see what had happened to Millers Field. What a disappointing and short-sighted (IMO) decision.
> 
> John have you received a reply from Mr Pickles? I'd be interested to read it.
> 
> Val54's idea of an epetition looks like a positive step. Has anyone done anything about it?



Acknowledged by an underling, then filed in the round filing cabinet I believe.


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## Danthevan (May 20, 2015)

So, is Millers Field now closed for stopovers?


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