# Scarborough



## AdriaTwin

I notice on Motorhomer
 site that No overnight signs have finally gone up in Sea Life centre carpark. Inevitable really with the number of vans in there recently overnight. On POI map the Burniston Road carpark next to Alpamare water park is listed as available overnight. Not used this one ourselves. Does anyone know what their signs say ? Is it privately owned or Scarborough council ?


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## AdriaTwin

Just found this








						Tap2Park
					

Super easy parking payment




					www.tap2park.co.uk
				



So it seems it's not a Scarborough council carpark. £6 for 24 hours, don't mind paying that, it's cheaper than Lytham St. Anne's
Not a seaview but I think you can walk round back of waterpark down to North bay prom.


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## Fazerloz

According to all the signs it belongs to Scaby  plenty of no overnight camping, caravan, motorcaravan signs up and the charge is £9 for 24hrs. I had a ride through this afternoon.





						Scalby Mills car park | SCARBOROUGH.GOV.UK
					

Scalby Mills, Scarborough, YO12 6RP Prices Parking charges apply 9am to 6pm per space   High Season (1st March to 31st October)   1 Hours  2 Hours  3 Hours  4 Hours  6 Hours  24 Hours   £2.20 N/A £4.40  N/A  £7.00  £9.00  With Residents Virtual Permit £1.80 N/A £3.60 N/A £7.00 £9.00   Coaches...




					www.scarborough.gov.uk


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## GreggBear

Makes me laugh, a parking ticket available for a 24 hr stay, but no overnight camping! Why the hell do they think you would park there for 24hrs & not sleep there....


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## campervanannie

GreggBear said:


> Makes me laugh, a parking ticket available for a 24 hr stay, but no overnight camping! Why the hell do they think you would park there for 24hrs & not sleep there....


I think that will be for security parking and local residents it’s not for people turning it into a campsite.


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## mickymost

Well this is a shame.Used to be another of our favourite  stopovers.And I was just convincing Swmbo that we could go there soon who has been too nervous to go anywhere in our Campervan since this Lockdown was eased.Well The Goose that Laid the Golden Egg can now be related to the Sea Life Centre.Added to the never ending list of banned overnight gems.Too good for far too long and recent weekends have spoiled it due to it being rammed with Motorhomes and Campervans.
Probably a few #covidiots who have recently bought Motorhomes were treating it like a campsite not knowing the rules to follow.


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## The laird

Agree totally


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## The laird

mickymost said:


> Well this is a shame.Used to be another of our favourite  stopovers.And I was just convincing Swmbo that we could go there soon who has been too nervous to go anywhere in our Campervan since this Lockdown was eased.Well The Goose that Laid the Golden Egg can now be related to the Sea Life Centre.Added to the never ending list of banned overnight gems.Too good for far too long and recent weekends have spoiled it due to it being rammed with Motorhomes and Campervans.
> Probably a few #covidiots who have recently bought Motorhomes were treating it like a campsite not knowing the rules to follow.


Agree 100%


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## Mobilvetta

The sign states no overnight camping, I thought camping was when you got your table and chairs out, like I believe a number of people have, on another site there is a suggestion you can still park up there and it would be legal to sleep in your van, but not to actually camp there, perhaps someone could contact Scarborough council to get this clarified.


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## campervanannie

Mobilvetta said:


> The sign states no overnight camping, I thought camping was when you got your table and chairs out, like I believe a number of people have, on another site there is a suggestion you can still park up there and it would be legal to sleep in your van, but not to actually camp there, perhaps someone could contact Scarborough council to get this clarified.


On Andy Strangeways site they say the notices are unenforceable but it’s now a question of who will try it, they did the same 4/5 years ago and it got rid of the people that did more than just park,  but they creep back in so it’s a bit like an ethnic cleansing of the MH park up flush out the dross and the ones who just park for the night and move on during the day will be left alone.


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## maureenandtom

I had thought that this car park was private and motorhomes were allowed because of a benevolent management.   The signs are council signs so it must be a council car park and the signs must therefore be backed up by an off-street parking order.  I've not looked up the Scarborough off street order for confirmation.

We don't, as a group, defy *any *signs but it is a perfectly valid protest to defy, openly, a sign we believe to be unlawful and say, in effect - _“There is no offence committed by me.  Issue me a PCN and we'll take it to appeal where I will win and you will lose.”_

Of course, it seems to me without any further evidence, that the signs are inadequate anyway, with no defiition, for example, of overnighting.

There is another point occurring to me.   There is a proposal for one part of Scarborough Council area, the possible Whitby Aire opening up, and this one closing down.   Seems a bit contradictory and I wonder why.

The proposed aire is out of the way and this one isn't?


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## Fazerloz

Enforceable  or not they have had the desired effect. Yesterday afternoon when  I rode through that same view in the photo would have had a lot of MHs in it.
The Sealife website states the carpark is owned and run by Scaby council it is also listed on Scaby council parking. Scalby Mills carpark.


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## AdriaTwin

Going back to OP, has anyone overnighted in Burniston road,Alpamare Waterpark car park ?


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## mickymost

So Mr Strangeway who seems knowledgeable in these things says the signs arent enforceable due to No Off Street Parking Order In Place.Wonder if anyone wants to chance their luck and to see if the warden arrives and slaps on an illegal unenforceable Ticket on their windscreen.Dont think I want to be the Guinea Pig but I bet someone who has now read Andys views on this will go for it?


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## Deleted member 34243

Good idea ’to go for it’. While they are there they can dig the holes for the barriers that will inevitably follow.


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## campervanannie

phase3begins said:


> Good idea ’to go for it’. While they are there they can dig the holes for the barriers that will inevitably follow.


There has been a barrier there for years they don’t lock it because it’s parking for the pub/restauran.


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## mickymost

campervanannie said:


> There has been a barrier there for years they don’t lock it because it’s parking for the pub/restauran.




And Annie that Pub Restaurant just by the car park now will lose a lot of trade due to the ban which the Motorhome/Campervan stopovers used to bring to them.


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## maureenandtom

phase3begins said:


> Good idea ’to go for it’. While they are there they can dig the holes for the barriers that will inevitably follow.



*If *the council has no authority to erect the signs then why do we allow it?   Out of fear, or course.   Like you say – what will the repercussion be?   In this case you give the threat that a height barrier will follow.   If we always follow that line of never resist then councils will do what they like knowing that the public will never object.  It will never be held responsible.    If the council does have authority then the off-street parking orderwill make it clear.  I still haven't looked but the point you make is more important.   If we let the fear of what the council will do if we don't submit overwhelm us then we do not have democracy;  we have dictatorship.   Dictatorship doesn't end well.

This quotation came to mind.


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## caledonia

mickymost said:


> And Annie that Pub Restaurant just by the car park now will lose a lot of trade due to the ban which the Motorhome/Campervan stopovers used to bring to them.


And the people to blame for that are the motorhome owners who chose to abuse this place. The council put these signs up and enforceable or not they are having the desired effect so aren’t a waste of money as the Strangeman would like you to believe.


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## caledonia

maureenandtom said:


> *If *the council has no authority to erect the signs then why do we allow it?   Out of fear, or course.   Like you say – what will the repercussion be?   In this case you give the threat that a height barrier will follow.   If we always follow that line of never resist then councils will do what they like knowing that the public will never object.  It will never be held responsible.    If the council does have authority then the off-street parking orderwill make it clear.  I still haven't looked but the point you make is more important.   If we let the fear of what the council will do if we don't submit overwhelm us then we do not have democracy;  we have dictatorship.   Dictatorship doesn't end well.
> 
> This quotation came to mind.
> 
> View attachment 84949


I don’t think the council is the issue here? Surely it’s the motorhomers abusing the place and it’s an education issue. If the motorhomers didn’t abuse it the signs wouldn’t have been erected.


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## mistericeman

Legally enforceable signs or not, I'm not sure ignoring them and parking up does a great deal to help our image to the general publics perception of 'us' 

Besides if someone doesn't want me parking there and spending money locally 
I'm happy to go find somewhere else where I AM welcome...


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## campervanannie

mickymost said:


> And Annie that Pub Restaurant just by the car park now will lose a lot of trade due to the ban which the Motorhome/Campervan stopovers used to bring to them.


I doubt t as 4 motorhomes stayed last night but just parked no tables abandoned chairs out and the ticket fairy left them alone apparently..


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## Deleted member 34243

maureenandtom said:


> *If *the council has no authority to erect the signs then why do we allow it?   Out of fear, or course.   Like you say – what will the repercussion be?   In this case you give the threat that a height barrier will follow.   If we always follow that line of never resist then councils will do what they like knowing that the public will never object.  It will never be held responsible.    If the council does have authority then the off-street parking orderwill make it clear.  I still haven't looked but the point you make is more important.   If we let the fear of what the council will do if we don't submit overwhelm us then we do not have democracy;  we have dictatorship.   Dictatorship doesn't end well.
> 
> This quotation came to mind.
> 
> View attachment 84949


I just feel that using polite normal channels of communication with the relevant authorities is more likely to get a reasoned discussion. The try it and see it or the f*** ’em approach is t really going to inform the folk responsible for managing the area.


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## mickymost

campervanannie said:


> I doubt t as 4 motorhomes stayed last night but just parked no tables abandoned chairs out and the ticket fairy left them alone apparently..




Ah thats interesting then so maybe the signs arent enforceable as surely the warden would have pounced with a grin all over his/her face.


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## campervanannie

mickymost said:


> Ah thats interesting then so maybe the signs arent enforceable as surely the warden would have pounced with a grin all over his/her face.


They did this 4/5 years ago got rid of the dross and slowly started to turn a blind eye again so maybe it was just a shake up.


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## maureenandtom

Of course we should use polite forms of communication.    Interesting that no tickets have yet been issued.    I think that points to the council knowing that the signs are fraudulent.

N Yorks Council and Scarborough Council have a history of erecting non-enforceable signs - without the aurhority to do so - and seemingly had no shame - until both councils had to backtrack and remove them.    They had the idea that they could erect whatever signs they wanted provided they had no intention of enforcing them.  Depending on the public's docility and usually athey can count on that.

Regardless of all that.   We must obey the law.   It is doubly important that those who make the law should obey the law.    Councils must always act lawfully - erecting signs without authority is not lawful.     Having said that - I've still not read the off-street parking order but I'm fairly sure, for example, that _overnight_ would have to be defined.

Here's their historic attitude to legality of signage.






It's the Cummings (and other untouchables) syndrome.   _We make the law for you to obey;  we do not have to obey it ourselves._


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## Wooie1958

How strange ( yes that is a pun ) that " *he who shall not be named* " name is now allowed on here now because it used to get asterisked out  

Maybe Covid-19 has affected more than what we think it has


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## campervanannie

Wooie1958 said:


> How strange ( yes that is a pun ) that " *he who shall not be named* " name is now allowed on here now because it used to get asterisked out
> 
> Maybe Covid-19 has affected more than what we think it has


I know when I posted the name I expected lots of XXX but it didn’t has some in the WC workings broken or fixed depending on your viewpoint


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## shoggoth

Me and Otto were in the SeaLife carpark for a Friday night a couple of weeks ago, visiting our favourite pub in the town. This was probably the weekend before the signs got put up.Folk with a couple of gigantic caravans turned up along with a small flotilla of T5s and claimed the entire coach parking area for themselves. We returned on Sunday after a trip round the moors and they were in the exact same spot.


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## mickymost

shoggoth said:


> Me and Otto were in the SeaLife carpark for a Friday night a couple of weeks ago, visiting our favourite pub in the town. This was probably the weekend before the signs got put up.Folk with a couple of gigantic caravans turned up along with a small flotilla of T5s and claimed the entire coach parking area for themselves. We returned on Sunday after a trip round the moors and they were in the exact same spot.




Caravans? you sure these werent proper Travellers? Last year we were in Bridlington on the Coach and Lorry park behind Tesco by the Station.At one stage a T5 towing a  Caravan pulled in and went up the opposite end to Tesco.Within 30 minutes another 20 pulled in and then marked off the far end with their vehicles and Caravans.
We didnt stay.
Next day an article in local Rag saying Gypsies taken over the complete car park we were in.


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## shoggoth

mickymost said:


> Caravans? you sure these werent proper Travellers?



Yeah, I think they were, most likely and at a guess. I didn't like to ask though


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## runnach

mickymost said:


> Caravans? you sure these werent proper Travellers? Last year we were in Bridlington on the Coach and Lorry park behind Tesco by the Station.At one stage a T5 towing a  Caravan pulled in and went up the opposite end to Tesco.Within 30 minutes another 20 pulled in and then marked off the far end with their vehicles and Caravans.
> We didnt stay.
> Next day an article in local Rag saying Gypsies taken over the complete car park we were in.


Hilderthorpe car park you are referring too. I wondered why I was getting strange looks towing a caravan with my motorhome, different occasion of course and I was joined with a few more vans and living trailers,...yup the fair had arrived in town 10 day job that one


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