# Camping without hook-up



## peteincambridge (May 23, 2009)

I have bought two 100 amp Elecsol batteries (it's easy to swop over when one is tired) ... but I haven't really got space to link them together. I have nice stand alone CTEK charger (if there is an electric supply nearby) and my Lunar Pinnacle Van charges when the engine runs. I am a bit of a Sky Sports freak so I use my inverter quite a bit to run my box ... which I know is very naughty but that's not going to change. *What I'd like is a bit of help as to how good my engine will be a charging my battery.* *How fast does an engine charge a leisure battery?* If I choose to stay onsite and just run the engine will my leisure battery get fully charged? Do I need a very small (silent!!) generator or can I cope with what I have. 
_I'd really welcome some help on this._ 

By the way ... this is my first post.

pete


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## ianmorgan (May 23, 2009)

peteincambridge said:


> I have bought two 100 amp Elecsol batteries (it's easy to swop over when one is tired) ... but I haven't really got space to link them together. I have nice stand alone CTEK charger (if there is an electric supply nearby) and my Lunar Pinnacle Van charges when the engine runs. I am a bit of a Sky Sports freak so I use my inverter quite a bit to run my box ... which I know is very naughty but that's not going to change. *What I'd like is a bit of help as to how good my engine will be a charging my battery.* *How fast does an engine charge a leisure battery?* If I choose to stay onsite and just run the engine will my leisure battery get fully charged? Do I need a very small (silent!!) generator or can I cope with what I have.
> _I'd really welcome some help on this._
> 
> By the way ... this is my first post.
> ...


hya 
your MH running idle onsight would not charge your batteries worth talking about,waste of derv
i have a 2kw honda genny which will charge your batteries in about 2 hours.you can also run tv sat whatever while charging
good luck IAN


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## ian81 (May 23, 2009)

Although we only wild camp and try to be in a minority of one often park on aires on the continent with other MHers. One of the irritants is people running their engines I guess in the hope of charging their leisure battery which as Ian says is a forlorn hope.

We have a solar panel which we find keeps our batteries charged up except for a few days in the middle of winter. Then we resort to our Kippor generator.

Welcome to the site Pete -we have flown south from living in Cambridge and now are based in SW France. Hope you enjoy the A14 'car park'!!


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## BedfordMJ (May 23, 2009)

ianmorgan said:


> hya
> your MH running idle onsight would not charge your batteries worth talking about,waste of derv
> i have a 2kw honda genny which will charge your batteries in about 2 hours.you can also run tv sat whatever while charging
> good luck IAN



Could always start the engine leave a brick on the accelerator and pop out for a couple of hours


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## orian (May 23, 2009)

I have chosen to fit a solar panel to my unit because I do not like to hear engines running for long periods of time. I also dislike the thought of parking next to a generator.
Although some generators are described as silent they are not as quiet or enviromentally friendly as my solar panel.
I accept in winter I might not get much of a charge from my solar panel but I find at that time of the year I don't tend to stay in one spot for very long so the engine recharges the batteries.


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## peteincambridge (May 23, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice. I think I might go down the "Silent" generator route and they look smart. I'd probably only want a very small one. Has anyone get any recommendations ... I've had a little hunt through Google.
pete


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## oldiebutgoodie (May 23, 2009)

peteincambridge said:


> I have bought two 100 amp Elecsol batteries (it's easy to swop over when one is tired) ... but I haven't really got space to link them together.
> pete



It doesn't take any space up to run a length of welding cable to the second battery and add an earth, wherever it is stored.


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## barryd (May 23, 2009)

We once ran our battery right down so all the lights went dim and the satellite receiver and TV just went off.  I ran the engine for about 40 minutes (we were wilding on our own) and afterwards everything worked for the remainder of the evening (about a couple of hours) so I think it does work to some extent.  Normally I find that we can wildcamp for a couple of weeks just by moving around every day or every other day just for maybe an hour, sometimes less and everything stays charged.  No solar panels and just one 110AH Battery.  However no invertors either!  Satellite system uses no power once tuned in and we got rid of the AMP sucking 15" 12v tv and now have a 15" 240V TV for when on hookup and an 8" DVD TV combo box for 12 V which seems to use hardly any power.


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## ian81 (May 23, 2009)

peteincambridge said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I think I might go down the "Silent" generator route and they look smart. I'd probably only want a very small one. Has anyone get any recommendations ... I've had a little hunt through Google.
> pete



Kippor IG1000 about £250 plus carriage off ebay


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## BedfordMJ (May 23, 2009)

peteincambridge said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I think I might go down the "Silent" generator route and they look smart. I'd probably only want a very small one. Has anyone get any recommendations ... I've had a little hunt through Google.
> pete



Just be responsible as none are 'Silent' use them very sparingly. There are loads of opinions on here about them and they can be a huge annoyance.
From my education on forums the last couple of years I understand Onan and Honda to be good units. Mine is a Dometic which has a Honda engine.


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## robjmckinney (May 23, 2009)

*Battery Charging*

After starting your vehicle it takes approx 7 mins to recharge your vehicle battery while driving. The modern alterator pushes out more than 40 amps, you would need a mighty big genny to compare to that output. Each individual alternator may differ a little but you should have a high enough output at about 12 to 15 hundred revs!


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## bob690 (May 23, 2009)

Hi pete, I do use quite a bit of power, have 3- 110amp batteries. I bought a honda 1kw suitcase genny which is excellent. Takes hardly any room up and can deliver 12 or 240 volt. But what puts it above the others is the output for computer and TV operation. Some of the cheaper gennies have unregulated supplies and without goin into complicated gumff, the sine wave output is the same as or better than the mains. Have a look on the review websites. Hope this helps....Bob


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## ianmorgan (May 23, 2009)

robjmckinney said:


> After starting your vehicle it takes approx 7 mins to recharge your vehicle battery while driving. The modern alterator pushes out more than 40 amps, you would need a mighty big genny to compare to that output. Each individual alternator may differ a little but you should have a high enough output at about 12 to 15 hundred revs!



7mins have you any more jokes


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## BedfordMJ (May 23, 2009)

ianmorgan said:


> 7mins have you any more jokes



Yes it is clearly 3 minutes and 13 seconds 
Sorry no idea about alternators but 7 mins sounds a bit lean.


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## robjmckinney (May 23, 2009)

*Battery Charging*

ianmorgan

7mins have you any more jokes 

I'm only an old ex-forces vehicle electrician, they have improved on them since then, but I will always bow to superior knowledge!


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## ianmorgan (May 24, 2009)

robjmckinney said:


> ianmorgan
> 
> 7mins have you any more jokes
> 
> I'm only an old ex-forces vehicle electrician, they have improved on them since then, but I will always bow to superior knowledge!



i'm only a middle aged bricky thats had a few vans with the odd flat battery.
jump leads to start and drove aprox 10 miles stoped van still no start

not meanning to put your statement down
just pis--- off with batteries


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## ian81 (May 24, 2009)

robjmckinney said:


> After starting your vehicle it takes approx 7 mins to recharge your vehicle battery while driving. The modern alterator pushes out more than 40 amps, you would need a mighty big genny to compare to that output. Each individual alternator may differ a little but you should have a high enough output at about 12 to 15 hundred revs!



Going back to school physics say alternator is pushing out 15v at 40 amps that equals 600w. So is my Kipor IG1000 a 'mighty big genny'??


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## Tony Lee (May 24, 2009)

robjmckinney said:


> After starting your vehicle it takes approx 7 mins to recharge your vehicle battery while driving. The modern alterator pushes out more than 40 amps, you would need a mighty big genny to compare to that output. Each individual alternator may differ a little but you should have a high enough output at about 12 to 15 hundred revs!



True, but then all you are replacing is the couple of Ah used to start the engine (say 300A for 2 seconds = 300x 2/3600 = almost nothing). 7 minutes is a long time to replace that tiny amount of energy.

A leisure battery may need 60 Ah and although the alternator may put out 40 Amps at the start, it soon tapers off to much less than rated output. Two hours of running the engine at high idle would probably not replace the 60Ah.


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## robjmckinney (May 24, 2009)

ian81

A thousand watt genny has to convert to 12v charging or has a small charging circuit at a low rate of constant current.

Tony Lee

Ouite a difference to a simple constant current battery charger to a constant voltage system on the vehicle, this takes a high current while flat and reduces as the battery charges up to a mere trickle due to the internal resistance of the battery which increases during charging.

The old Lucas alternator 20 ACR's produced just less than 40 amps thirty years ago. The modern alternator is considerably improved and powerful, no doubt some here have 90 amps and above as standard to run their extras. My brother's transit with crew cab had a special feeding a bank of batteries, extra heating including hot water and microwave etc so even larger ones are fitted.

The 7 min rule applies to an average car, thirty years ago, that is well maintained not some old snotter falling to bits with worn out batteries, I've had a fair few of them in my time!


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## derekfaeberwick (May 24, 2009)

peteincambridge said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I think I might go down the "Silent" generator route and they look smart. I'd probably only want a very small one. Has anyone get any recommendations ... I've had a little hunt through Google.
> pete



 With the kipor 1 kw. there is a 12 volt output with leads included. You could charge one battery on hook up (to the genny) and the other with the 12 volt leads.


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## Tony Lee (May 24, 2009)

Rob, the original question was


> What I'd like is a bit of help as to how good my engine will be a charging my battery. How fast does an engine charge a leisure battery?



As you pointed out by telling us it takes 7 minutes to replace the 1/10 Ah used to start the engine, to replace the 60Ah in a discharged leisure battery is going to take a long time.   
True, if your battery is dead flat, then using the engine on fast idle to prevent damage to the battery by getting some charge into it is certainly a wise move - but to rely on idling a 100kW car engine for an hour is not the best way to set up for independent camping.

BTW - the 12V outputs on most generators are intended to power 12V loads. They will put some charge into a flat battery in an emergency, but are fairly lousy at properly charging a battery.


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## derekfaeberwick (May 26, 2009)

If you are only out for a week or four at a time  then a partial charge of the hab battery surely does until you get home for a proper hook up. If we can agree on this point then surely it can be accepted that a short boost charge every so often from a small genny would suffice. Just don't let it get below 12.2 v. or so. Not too scientific BUT?


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## Guest (May 26, 2009)

*No problems*

Just done from friday night to monday evening with only one leisure battery and not on hook up and as expected and as usual, no problems at all. We did not start the engine not even for a second.
Done this many times, however you do need to be more carefull as to what you use on dark winter nights


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## dgs (Aug 26, 2009)

I have a Honda EX650, which runs well and does everything it needs to, the only problem is the petrol fumes reaching the cab interior when the unit is stored in the rear compartment. Does anyone one have any suggestions that solves this problem? Thanks.


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## mickymoor (Aug 26, 2009)

try getting it converted to gas ,  i have a honda 10i done that way no petrol fumes.Ive been pondering over a onboard genny or a efoy fuel cell but have decided to go with 2 130ah batteries that will give me about 36  hours without charging  to power  my avtex 15" tv , pace didital box , camos dome saterlite dish.


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## maingate (Aug 26, 2009)

peteincambridge said:


> I have bought two 100 amp Elecsol batteries (it's easy to swop over when one is tired) ... but I haven't really got space to link them together. I have nice stand alone CTEK charger (if there is an electric supply nearby) and my Lunar Pinnacle Van charges when the engine runs. I am a bit of a Sky Sports freak so I use my inverter quite a bit to run my box ... which I know is very naughty but that's not going to change. *What I'd like is a bit of help as to how good my engine will be a charging my battery.* *How fast does an engine charge a leisure battery?* If I choose to stay onsite and just run the engine will my leisure battery get fully charged? Do I need a very small (silent!!) generator or can I cope with what I have.
> _I'd really welcome some help on this._
> 
> By the way ... this is my first post.
> ...


I have read the replies and there are some good tips in there but some things you need to remember.

You have a CTEK charger which has several stages and needs longer to fully charge a battery. It will probably cut out at 13.8 volts.

Remember the 80% rule. If fully charged, if you do not go below 80% of capacity, a battery will last a long, long time. I know this is not always feasible when wilding, so expect a shorter battery lifespan.
Most cheap inverters are rated at 80% efficiency and work a battery hard. Plus they do not give a pure sine wave, which can effect some equipment. A pure sine wave inverter is much more expensive to buy.
If you constantly give your battery deep discharges then you will need to change it more often. I used to run my fridge on battery at first and needed a new battery within 2 years.

Its all a compromise.


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## The Grand Wanderer (Aug 26, 2009)

*12v Sky box*

Hi all,
Seem's to me that you need a 12v BskyB box.
Pace made some and there is one for sale on ebay Click here to view.They are all second hand now.
Thus your inverter is redundant.
Link your two leisure batteries as already suggested.
Also consider the use of solar panels to charge leisure batteries, as these need no extra expense after purchase and are enviormently and neighbour friendly.
I have two on my van giving a total of 190 watts linked to two 110 amp/hr batteries, and have never had the need to hook up for the last three years I also fitted a battery master which allows surplus power from the solar panels to charge the van battery when leisure batteries fully charged. Like you I watch tele nearly every night when away with minimal heating and lighting on.
Once you get the gear you can transfere it across to a new van should the need arise.
Hope this helps.


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## Neckender (Aug 26, 2009)

I have 2 - 85 amp leisure batteries, and a 800watt inverter and van bitz battery master fitted to our van, and have just had 7 nights on a site in Skeggy without hook up, and we went out in the van 2 days driving approx 8 miles return each day. No broblems with flat batteries.

John.


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## coolasluck (Aug 26, 2009)

What do people think of these which somebody on here gave me the link too,if full timing i would consider this,but what do you all think?


Self Energy EG-20 12V Automatic Generator | Conrad Anderson UK




at 2699 though pricey!!


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## maingate (Aug 26, 2009)

Pete,
There are a couple of things that might help you.

1) Disconnect your + battery terminal with everything switched off andput a multimeter from the battery post to the end of the lead you have just removed. Set the m/m to amps and see if you have any current showing. It should be zero. If it shows anything then you have a drain on your battery all the time.

2) There is an article in the new MMM magazine about LED lighting and how much power it saves. Remember that an Elecsol 100ah battery is about £100 and will only last a certain time. The man who wrote the article spent just over £100 for 14 LED units and cut his power consumption a lot
With 12 lamps on he went from 10A to 1.44A drain on his battery


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## BedfordMJ (Aug 26, 2009)

coolasluck said:


> What do people think of these which somebody on here gave me the link too,if full timing i would consider this,but what do you all think?
> 
> 
> Self Energy EG-20 12V Automatic Generator | Conrad Anderson UK
> ...



Am I reading this correct does it not provide 240volts?


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## mickymoor (Aug 27, 2009)

had a listen to one of these in Conrad Anderson UKs caravan at the pickering motorhome show thought it was a bit too noisy for me as i have a autosleeper legend and the only fitting place was under the floor where the seating area is.


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## Deleted member 967 (Aug 27, 2009)

BedfordMJ said:


> Am I reading this correct does it not provide 240volts?


I run an Gasperini Energy 20 and have done so for the past 18 months.   I have been parked on a site with no hookup for the last 2 weeks.  In my van the noise is no more than a vibration when it is running.  It doesn't even stop us going to sleep.

We have asked people parked near us if they are disturbed by it running and the standard reply is "we didn't even notice it was running"

I left it running the other night when no one else was using the site and we both went to sleep with it on.  Normally we would turn it off.

No it does not produce 240v  It gives 12V at 20amps to the batteries.  It was running this morning and we were talking to a chap outside of the van and he couldn't hear it running.

We can run mains equipment on our 1600w inverter and if the battery starts to flag it cuts in automatically.  It stops itself when the batteries are back to fully charged.  It stops it the engine is started, otherwise it is switch it on and foget it is there.  It charges in the dark when a solar pannel cannot.

I can also run my mains powered Ham equipment while wilding.  I can run my laptop.  1K electric kettle.  Ramoska 650w Oven. Dolce-Gusto coffee machine. George Forman Grill all with no problem, or fearing the batteries will go flat, also TV and Sky box without being limited to time.  We cannot run everthing simultaneously but then you wouldn't be able to do so on a hookup either.

With this equipment we do not have to worry about places with restrictions on using live gas appliances to prepare a hot meal.

One drawback is the location of the oil tank filler.  It needs systhetic two stroke oil added from time to time.  The filler is about half way up the unit and we have to crawl under the van to fill it.  This is a messy job but we have only had to do it twice in 18 months of hard use.


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## barryd (Aug 27, 2009)

Sounds fantastic!  so far we havent needed such a device and in three months touring we were on hookup probably 7 nights but you touring so you dont need to worry.  If it was winter and we were full timing and perhaps staying in one location wild camping for a month then I can see the advantages of this bit of kit.  If I understand it correcly you would never need hook up again.

Pity about the price though but it certainly sounds great.  Spent £1500 on a Camos so Mrs D could watch Big Brother in italy so I guess its not too bad if its as good as it sounds


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## mikejay (Aug 27, 2009)

We have just got back from 2weeks wild camping in the iom and drove about most days going places but only for about an hour each day.And we had no power problems the batteries 2x110amp never went below 12.50volts and we have a 10"lcd tv on every night and led lights and a 12v compresser fridge.I bought a sterling 1kw silent genny last yr never used it yet as i now have a sterling 90amp battery to battery digital charger and i can say best bit of kit bought for wild camping expensive but it chargers the batteries right up full.Sterling Power Products: Battery to Battery Chargers  Ohh and can you not get 12v sky boxes these days be better than running the inverter?

Mike


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## Kontiki (Aug 27, 2009)

We stayed 10 days at the Bristol balloon festival without hook up or running the engine. I have one 85 amp gel battery + solar panel. We watch some TV using our small sat dish & had no problems with the power. Personally we tend to restrict what we watch on TV & if theres nothing worth watching we stick the radio on or read.


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## ajs (Aug 27, 2009)

Kontiki said:


> if theres nothing worth watching we stick the radio on or read.


 
 sad...

 regards
aj


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## coolasluck (Aug 28, 2009)

but what about the football and tennis?
**** reading


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## jezport (Aug 28, 2009)

Dont forget, Idling a diesel engine for long periods is likely to cause the cylinders to glaze.


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## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 28, 2009)

what's a hook up


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## jayeastanglia (Aug 28, 2009)

A hook up is the thing in the wardrobe to hang your coat up with..


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## ajs (Aug 28, 2009)

Old_Arthur said:


> what's a hook up


 
 i'm sure painmate will be along soon with a suitable reply...

 regards 
aj


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## maingate (Aug 28, 2009)

ajs said:


> i'm sure painmate will be along soon with a suitable reply...
> 
> regards
> aj


Now then -- Hook-ups!

As I am currently in between vans, I am forced to camp one night in East Lothian, using the driveaway awning off my last van. I have searched and searched but cannot find where you plug in the hook-up lead on the awning. What will I do about my morning cuppa?


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## Airecraft (Aug 29, 2009)

We used to have 2 x 100Ahr elecsols but they both failed after 18 months - don't hold your breath on their 5 year warranty - been trying since April. 

Currently in Calais on the last night of 32 days away. Used electric hook-up once on an aire (free at Ange on the Cher). We have a 100Ahr Exide which cost £60, a 5 watt solar panel to keep things topped up in storage,  and a Honda Eu 10 genny which has used £10 of petrol in the month. The genny will charge the battery, give 230v for Sky etc and heat the water of the immersion (its 1kV but it just takes a bit longer) Because we rarely stay by other vans the genny is not a problem but it can annoy people on a cramped aire. It cost £300  off ebay, £600 new, but I think the honda is worth the extra for size, noise and reliability.
I was thinking of a adding a bigger panel but after such a successful trip, electrically speaking, I am keeping things as they are.
Andy


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## barryd (Aug 30, 2009)

Aire_on_a_shoestring said:


> We used to have 2 x 100Ahr elecsols but they both failed after 18 months - don't hold your breath on their 5 year warranty - been trying since April.
> 
> Currently in Calais on the last night of 32 days away. Used electric hook-up once on an aire (free at Ange on the Cher). We have a 100Ahr Exide which cost £60, a 5 watt solar panel to keep things topped up in storage,  and a Honda Eu 10 genny which has used £10 of petrol in the month. The genny will charge the battery, give 230v for Sky etc and heat the water of the immersion (its 1kV but it just takes a bit longer) Because we rarely stay by other vans the genny is not a problem but it can annoy people on a cramped aire. It cost £300  off ebay, £600 new, but I think the honda is worth the extra for size, noise and reliability.
> I was thinking of a adding a bigger panel but after such a successful trip, electrically speaking, I am keeping things as they are.
> Andy



Have you just stayed in one spot then if you need a genny and solar panel?  For a short stay of 32 days if your moving around do you need solar or a genny?  If you stayed in one spot (I presume wilding) then £10 for keeping power for a month is not bad.


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## vava1 (Sep 6, 2009)

peteincambridge said:


> I have bought two 100 amp Elecsol batteries (it's easy to swop over when one is tired) ... but I haven't really got space to link them together. I have nice stand alone CTEK charger (if there is an electric supply nearby) and my Lunar Pinnacle Van charges when the engine runs. I am a bit of a Sky Sports freak so I use my inverter quite a bit to run my box ... which I know is very naughty but that's not going to change. *What I'd like is a bit of help as to how good my engine will be a charging my battery.* *How fast does an engine charge a leisure battery?* If I choose to stay onsite and just run the engine will my leisure battery get fully charged? Do I need a very small (silent!!) generator or can I cope with what I have.
> _I'd really welcome some help on this._
> 
> By the way ... this is my first post.
> ...



Just make sure your generator is absolutely silent from OUTSIDE your van if other campers are in the viscinity - so only YOU suffer the tiresome interruption of peace


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 7, 2009)

just been having a quick trawl through past posts and the only thing i can add is, after near 4 months in our van with 2 large lorry batteries plus a fully charged back up just in case  that cost a tenner each (not expensive leasure ones ) we have never been short of power as of yet and we run a laptop a old 240v tv its only a 35 amp power consumption some are as high as 80 amps, a freeveiw box off a 800w invertor we also have to charge our mobiles and cameras ok we do a bit of running about to recharge batts


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## oldiebutgoodie (Sep 7, 2009)

mandrake said:


> we run a laptop a old 240v tv its only a 35 amp power consumption some are as high as 80 amps,


I hope you meant watts not amps!!!!!!
That must be one heck of a tv to need 35 amps


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 8, 2009)

getting my amps and wattage mixed up oops  ps theese 3 mobile dongals are the biz only thing is my daughter has nicked mine at the moment


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## ajs (Sep 9, 2009)

mandrake said:


> ps theese 3 mobile dongals are the biz only thing is my daughter has nicked mine at the moment


 
so how yer postin then... telekinetics...

regards 
aj


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