# Leisure battery Split charge manual switch help needed!!! (Firefox, please read/help!



## colboy8 (Jan 24, 2012)

Hi,

I am currently converting a ford transit welfare bus and I am currently looking to install a leisure battery with a manual split charge system.

I have been reading but I have yet to find a simple step by step guide to this.

Please can someone post one for me. I have seen firefox's videos and they are very helpful on youtube but i couldnt find this help anywhere.

I am placing the battery inside a box in the cab compartment to place it as close to the battery as possible.

So i think I will need to rum a wire from the starter battery positive to a switch on the dash, with an inline fuse in between, then from the switch to the positve on the leisure batter, with fuse. Then an earth wire from the negative termian of the leisure battery to the earth point on the chassis.

Is this right?

Also what thicknes wiring and what size fuses to use.

i am charging a 110 ah battery.

Also am i right in thinking that i would have the switch off when starting, and then on when driving, then off before stopping. And always off when using the lesiure battery devices (laptop etc...)

I really appreciate any help you guys would give me as I am seriously starting to worry about this "problem"

Thanks,

also if anyone wants to send me an email its colin.chihuahualand at gmail.com


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## Firefox (Jan 25, 2012)

I am currently converting a ford transit welfare bus and I am currently looking to install a leisure battery with a manual split charge system.

I have been reading but I have yet to find a simple step by step guide to this.

Please can someone post one for me. I have seen firefox's videos and they are very helpful on youtube but i couldnt find this help anywhere.

I am placing the battery inside a box in the cab compartment to place it as close to the battery as possible.

*This is fine but try and place it under the floor or in a sealed box vented to the outside if possible as it can give off hydrogen gas while charging which is explosive if it gathers.*


So i think I will need to rum a wire from the starter battery positive to a switch on the dash, with an inline fuse in between, then from the switch to the positve on the leisure batter, with fuse. Then an earth wire from the negative termian of the leisure battery to the earth point on the chassis.

Is this right?

*Yes but you only need one fuse between the switch and the starter battery*


Also what thicknes wiring and what size fuses to use.

i am charging a 110 ah battery.
*
I would use a 100A cable (10mm2) and a 50A-75A fuse and a 100A switch. You will probably only need 50 A charging current wire but best to oversize. You could use that thick cable from an old set of jump leads. That battery isolater switch (red and black) that they sell in Halfords would be OK.*

Also am i right in thinking that i would have the switch off when starting, and then on when driving, then off before stopping. And always off when using the lesiure battery devices (laptop etc...)

*Yes in principle. You don't strictly have to have it off when starting. Many "leisure" batteries are rated for starting too (because they basically are starter batteries - long story). But if the leisure battery is heavily discharged you'd be best having it off while starting. You don't have to have it off before stopping, but hopefully soon after stopping. If you leave it connected a while it wont cause any damage, but you may forget to switch it off, and this means your starter battery will discharge with your leisure battery when using devices. The way I always remember to switch it off is have an on/off switch for the caravan fuse box next to it and throw both switches at the same time. Thus split charge on, caravan electrics off and split charge off caravan electrics on. If I don't remember to switch off the split charge, the caravan electrics don't work when I try to use them, thus reminding me to throw both switches. This system also stops alternator voltages 14-15v getting into the caravan system and potentially blowing fuses or affecting anything sensitive.*

I really appreciate any help you guys would give me as I am seriously starting to worry about this "problem"
*
Don't worry it all works perfectly, though if you are forgetful it may be best to have a relay like most people. The only thing you can really forget is to put the charge on. Again I find if my leisure batteries are down, it's burning a hole in my mind and I want to get them on charge. It's just an attitude of mind. It works for me but a relay system is designed to be full proof. Until of course the relay sticks or burns out and you end up with a flat leisure battery but don't understand why! Mechanically a manual isolator switch is more robust in that respect.*


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## colboy8 (Jan 25, 2012)

Thanks Firefox, you are a legend. I have watched all your videos on youtube and they have become very useful for me in the recent months!!

Thanks also to Nick who emailed me, I havedecided what to do and will report back how it goes!

Col


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 25, 2012)

:scared:  Oh ecky thump. I was planning to do the same with my Tranny but having read Firefox's post and instructions, I think I'll take it to the garage and get them to do it! Recharging the main battery is one thing but wiring in a split relay is definitely beyond my electrical know how!


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## Firefox (Jan 25, 2012)

Above isn't a relay it is just a manual switch. You could do that :tongue:


And a relay is just a switch the same. but it's operated by another current (two more wires to attach), so actually it is not that much more scary.


I can do another diagram and it will be really simple and bare bones!


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## n brown (Jan 25, 2012)

a lot easier is use a smartcom relay,13 quid on e bay.one wire with a 30amp inline fuse from van battery to relay 2 wires out,one to fridge,one to leisure battery.no further thought necessary,the relay senses when the van battery is being charged and connects to the leisure battery on startup,turn the engine off, relay disconnects,simple and foolproof and dead easy to fit.i've fitted loads of these


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## oldish hippy (Jan 25, 2012)

Leisure Battery Install - Goatboy's VW Site this explain it simples


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## Firefox (Jan 26, 2012)

basildog said:


> Bring the gear with you and Vernon will do it for you at Stonehenge ! He is good like that ! lol



Yes could probably get you fixed up at Stonehenge if you decide where you want your leisure battery. Using a smart relay sounds a good idea.


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## Firefox (Jan 26, 2012)

oldish hippy said:


> Leisure Battery Install - Goatboy's VW Site this explain it simples



Goatboy's site is quite good but some things a bit misleading. 

For example most leisure batteries are not meant to be discharged more than 50%. If you run them flat you will damage them. Most of them are just slightly beefed up starter batteries, some are just starter batteries with a different label on them!


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## n brown (Jan 26, 2012)

anyone going for a smartcom i recommend the 460 from clarikengineering,when i had a prob with one they just sent another with an envelope for the old one.no hassle.don't forget a couple of inline fuseholders for bayonet fuses and a couple of 30amp fuses.wire should be 4mm


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 26, 2012)

Firefox said:


> Above isn't a relay it is just a manual switch. You could do that :tongue:
> 
> 
> And a relay is just a switch the same. but it's operated by another current (two more wires to attach), so actually it is not that much more scary.
> ...



See, I don't even know the difference between a relay and a manual switch!!!


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 26, 2012)

n brown said:


> a lot easier is use a smartcom relay,13 quid on e bay.one wire with a 30amp inline fuse from van battery to relay 2 wires out,one to fridge,one to leisure battery.no further thought necessary,the relay senses when the van battery is being charged and connects to the leisure battery on startup,turn the engine off, relay disconnects,simple and foolproof and dead easy to fit.i've fitted loads of these



This sounds promising, I'll have a look on ebay tonight. Ty. No fridge at the moment but am hoping that our ancient 3 way caravan fridge is still in my mum's loft...  and still working...


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 26, 2012)

Firefox said:


> Yes could probably get you fixed up at Stonehenge if you decide where you want your leisure battery. Using a smart relay sounds a good idea.



I'll pay you in whiskey (is Aldi whiskey ok?  )

I was going to have the leisure battery in the back of the tranny but what you said about giving off hydrogen has made me worry about the dog so maybe it would be better under the passenger seat in the cab. Also is it better to be as close as poss to the main battery? But then I'd need lots of wire to reach round the side of the bulkhead into the back of the van for cig lighter sockets, etc


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 26, 2012)

n brown said:


> anyone going for a smartcom i recommend the 460 from clarikengineering,when i had a prob with one they just sent another with an envelope for the old one.no hassle.don't forget a couple of inline fuseholders for bayonet fuses and a couple of 30amp fuses.wire should be 4mm



Ty for this. Inline fuseholders - are they the square box type or the torpedo shaped type?


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## n brown (Jan 26, 2012)

squary boxy fingy,better as holds the same fuses as your van has probly.remember,nobody has to know how anything works,just how to get it to work. how very profound.i don't think a bit of hydrogen will hurt your dog,unless he/she has a fag in his mouth.talking of dogs has everyone seen the dog balancing on a chain youtube?


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 26, 2012)

basildog said:


> The square type ! The modern ones with the spade connecctions ! You looked on ebay ?



No, just got in, not had a chance yet. Need to put me flat cap on and take t'whippet out, chop some kindling, scavenge some coal off the railway line and light the fire. I'll have a look after I've had me Lancashire Hotpot and Cumberland sausage.


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## Firefox (Jan 26, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> I'll pay you in whiskey (is Aldi whiskey ok?  )
> 
> I was going to have the leisure battery in the back of the tranny but what you said about giving off hydrogen has made me worry about the dog so maybe it would be better under the passenger seat in the cab. Also is it better to be as close as poss to the main battery? But then I'd need lots of wire to reach round the side of the bulkhead into the back of the van for cig lighter sockets, etc



Hydrogen isn't a big deal to the dog or humans; it's only if it collects there could be a danger of an explosion. So the ideal thing is to put the battery in a battery box (you can buy plastic ones or make one out of plywood) Then vent the box to the outside air with a plastic pipe. In respect of doing that you may be better off with the box just behind the drivers seat as one under the seat is difficult to vent to outside. To be honest I think the hydrogen thing is overplayed. Many people just have an unvented box under the seat but there have been some explosions in the past.

If there is space in the engine bay then that's good from charging point of view and dispersal of any gas, but it means mounting it in the bay which may not be easy in a short space of time. The favourite place would be behind the drivers seat under a bench seat etc If that fits in with your layout. Then that would keep the battery warmer in the living space which is also an advantage. Wire isn't a problem. It's only (say) 5 meters of  50A cable wherever the battery goes.


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## oldish hippy (Jan 26, 2012)

Have seen tranny with it mounted oppisite side to normal battery so there is room under bonnet


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## oldish hippy (Jan 26, 2012)

oldish hippy said:


> Have seen tranny with it mounted oppisite side to normal battery so there is room under bonnet



mine in cupboard battery box take up to much room got spare battery in it


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 26, 2012)

So I need one of these RING Smartcom Caravan Split Charge Towing Relay RCT460 | eBay 

plus one of these  In Line standard waterproof Blade Fuse Holder fuses 30a 30amp kit car boat bike | eBay 

plus these CAR BLADE FUSE 30A 30 AMP GREEN AUTO FUSES CAR / CARAVAN SENT SAME DAY B4 3.30PM | eBay

plus this TRI RATED 4mm CABLE 41A 56/0.30 4.0mm WIRE, 10 METRES | eBay

plus this eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace 

Anything else?


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## Firefox (Jan 26, 2012)

12 V leisure (or starter) Battery  (if putting inside engine compartment is there a suitable flat mounting tray or does one need to be made)

Battery Box (Plastic) to fit battery (if putting inside van)

Two battery terminals to match battery ^^^^^^^^above^^^^^^^ 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Double cig lighter socket to fit into back of van and get you started for power? (If fitting this rather than a fuse box I'd allow for another inline 30A fuse)

10-20v meter to check the leisure battery condition (optional)


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 26, 2012)

I got a donated leisure battery - I'll have a look at it over next few days and will let you know what it says on it. It seems to be ok, it's running 12 v lights at the moment

Got a 4 way cig lighter socket with long cable - currently in use with leisure battery and 12v lights, its plugged into 12v cig lighter socket connected to battery with croc clips. So I need another inline fuseholder for this? Is there not a fuse in the 4 way socket?

The last link in my last post is for a battery box but will have a look under bonnet at weekend to see if there's room under there. If so, I'll get a tray for battery instead of a box, seen some on ebay.

Will get brackets - thanks for pic. 

I got a battery and alternator tester gadget.


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## Firefox (Jan 26, 2012)

There may be a fuse in the 4 way socket. It will probably be unscrew-able so you could check. If not you could rely on fuses in the plugs of the apliances (usually a fuse behind the sprung plunger).  Battery box looks very nice if it fits your battery.


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## scampa (Jan 27, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> So I need one of these RING Smartcom Caravan Split Charge Towing Relay RCT460 | eBay
> 
> plus one of these  In Line standard waterproof Blade Fuse Holder fuses 30a 30amp kit car boat bike | eBay
> 
> ...



If you're worried about a build up of hydrogen from the leisure battery, the simple solution is to vent it to the outside of the van as Firefox suggests.......or for added peace of mind you could invest in one of these handy little gadgets??

Volvo FL6 FIRE ENGINE (COMPLETE) | eBay

(also handy for when you forget your tin-opener)


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 27, 2012)

Ha ha, not a bad price especially if the firemen (in uniforms) are included in the price


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jan 27, 2012)

*Split Charging*

Here is a good diagram and instructions easy to follow for 
Split Charging and Frige Relay

Clive`s

Alf


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 27, 2012)

Alf 1 said:


> Here is a good diagram and instructions easy to follow for
> Split Charging and Frige Relay
> 
> Clive`s
> ...



Thanks for this


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## n brown (Jan 27, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> So I need one of these RING Smartcom Caravan Split Charge Towing Relay RCT460 | eBay
> 
> plus one of these  In Line standard waterproof Blade Fuse Holder fuses 30a 30amp kit car boat bike | eBay
> 
> ...



fine,i prefer quick release battery clamps about 6quid up to you,your faglighter thing i doubt has a fuse,one more inline have you got lights?


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## Firefox (Jan 27, 2012)

Ring do a nice plug in windy halogen thing on a cig socket. Could probably also get an LED for that. I started off with battery LEDs to get my lighting going. Then I added 240V lights and later LEDs for 12v too.

Wot lights U got WVW? We'll soon have your whole Tranny wired up, LOL  Not that you have much wall paneling or furniture to fix it to yet!


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## Firefox (Jan 27, 2012)

Alf 1 said:


> Here is a good diagram and instructions easy to follow for
> Split Charging and Frige Relay
> 
> Clive`s
> ...



15A fuse for charging circuit is a bit skinny. I can see that blowing with two batteries and a heavy discharge. But advice given about having a thick charging cable is good. I've got 10mm2 100 A to reduce losses. (batteries are at the back of the van 5m away)


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## n brown (Jan 27, 2012)

i've probably got a couple of striplites hanging about i don't want, i'll have a rummage


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 27, 2012)

Not looked at diagram yet, am brain dead after a heavy training day today but will study it over weekend. 

I got loads of AA battery LED lights (multi coloured xmas fairy lights, cheap in jan sales)with rechargable batteries and a 12v fast battery charger (15 mins to recharge AA/AAA batteries). Van also has 2 x florescent lights wired in to main battery, have had them on for about an hour at a time and main battery seemed ok but don't want to use them too much whilst parked up and not moving for a couple of days. Have been running engine for half hour every so often to make sure florescent lights don't drain it. Am happy with battery LED lights for the moment so long as I can recharge them from leisure battery, and can recharge laptop, phone, etc from leisure battery, and in the summer I can run a little 12v fridge (mini beer chiller type fridge) for milk. 

It would be good to be able to plug my 12v elec blanket in too seeing as I've no heating in the van at the moment but would that be too much and drain the leisure battery too quickly?


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 27, 2012)

n brown said:


> i've probably got a couple of striplites hanging about i don't want, i'll have a rummage



Thank you, that's really kind.


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## Firefox (Jan 27, 2012)

It depends on the wattage of the blanket, as to how long you can have it on.

Say 100w at 12V, that's 100/12 = 8A draw, 4 hours worth is 32Ah so a fair slice out of your capacity. But most small electric blankets you should be able to get a few hours out of. There are also inverter losses to consider if it's a 240V blanket.

You can probably get a 150 W Ring inverter to fit in your cig socket to power that and laptops/phone chargers (if you haven't got one already that is!)


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 27, 2012)

basildog said:


> Fit a woodburner !!!!



Funnily enough, I have been thinking along those lines, there's a small Norwegian Army one on ebay for about £150 and my coal merchant has one fitted in his portacabin in the coal yard and I was having a look at it the other day.


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## n brown (Jan 27, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> Not looked at diagram yet, am brain dead after a heavy training day today but will study it over weekend.
> 
> I got loads of AA battery LED lights (multi coloured xmas fairy lights, cheap in jan sales)with rechargable batteries and a 12v fast battery charger (15 mins to recharge AA/AAA batteries). Van also has 2 x florescent lights wired in to main battery, have had them on for about an hour at a time and main battery seemed ok but don't want to use them too much whilst parked up and not moving for a couple of days. Have been running engine for half hour every so often to make sure florescent lights don't drain it. Am happy with battery LED lights for the moment so long as I can recharge them from leisure battery, and can recharge laptop, phone, etc from leisure battery, and in the summer I can run a little 12v fridge (mini beer chiller type fridge) for milk.
> 
> It would be good to be able to plug my 12v elec blanket in too seeing as I've no heating in the van at the moment but would that be too much and drain the leisure battery too quickly?



if you get the smartcom stuff,no need for diagrams i will tell you how to fit it and stand there till you get it sorted. if you put the battery inside it'll take less than half an hour.i'll have any tools needed with me.


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 27, 2012)

Firefox said:


> It depends on the wattage of the blanket, as to how long you can have it on.
> 
> Say 100w at 12V, that's 100/12 = 8A draw, 4 hours worth is 32Ah so a fair slice out of your capacity. But most small electric blankets you should be able to get a few hours out of. There are also inverter losses to consider if it's a 240V blanket.
> 
> You can probably get a 150 W Ring inverter to fit in your cig socket to power that and laptops/phone chargers (if you haven't got one already that is!)



I got a 100w inverter for standard 3 pin house plugs but have never really used it that much, mainly because I've never really understood how elec works - all I know is that 100w is those very very bright old style light bulbs. I don't bother with hair dryer / straighteners etc, I just want to be able to use / recharge my various electronic gadgets etc without worrying about draining main battery. I've got in car charger for laptop, mobile etc.


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## n brown (Jan 27, 2012)

basildog said:


> Fit a woodburner !!!!



i made a lot of gas bottle burners and fitted one for a guy called BOOGIE, so i wrote his name in weld on the top BOGIE  and said'that is how you spell it,innit mate?' oh how me and the wife laughed,he even thanked me


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 27, 2012)

n brown said:


> if you get the smartcom stuff,no need for diagrams i will tell you how to fit it and stand there till you get it sorted. if you put the battery inside it'll take less than half an hour.i'll have any tools needed with me.



That would be great. Much appreciated. To be honest, I would rather do it myself with someone who knows what they are doing supervising me, instead of getting someone else to do it, because that's the best way for me to learn, by doing. I just need to make sure I get the right kit. 

How much Kendal Mint Cake would you want in payment?


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## whitevanwoman (Jan 27, 2012)

n brown said:


> i made a lot of gas bottle burners and fitted one for a guy called BOOGIE, so i wrote his name in weld on the top BOGIE  and said'that is how you spell it,innit mate?' oh how me and the wife laughed,he even thanked me



 At least he knows it'll be a one-off, it could be an antique of the future.


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## n brown (Jan 27, 2012)

whitevanwoman said:


> That would be great. Much appreciated. To be honest, I would rather do it myself with someone who knows what they are doing supervising me, instead of getting someone else to do it, because that's the best way for me to learn, by doing. I just need to make sure I get the right kit.
> 
> How much Kendal Mint Cake would you want in payment?



which is exactly why i wouldn't do it. is kendal mint cake a northern name for carlberg lager?


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## Firefox (Jan 27, 2012)

Likewise I'll either do it for you, or hand out instructions from a safe distance ;-)  No payment needed either way. I'm going to be there from 10th Feb I think. Hoping for good weather!


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## oldish hippy (Jan 27, 2012)

if it not to cold i find somewhere warm to sit and watch and you can laugh at the cowboy who wired my van up ok going to rewire when i get it modded might get it changed before then as i need power steering and heater


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## n brown (Jan 27, 2012)

looks  like you is going to be a well wired white van woman whatever


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