# Notice of Intended Prosecution from South Wales Police



## UFO (May 1, 2014)

Had a letter (Notice of Intended Prosecution), English and Welsh language versions, this morning from South Wales Police telling me I had been doing 36 in a 30 mph limit on the B4265, St Brides, Wick, on our trip to South Wales over the Easter weekend.  So what with the 'entry fee' (Severn River crossing toll) it will have been an expensive trip.

I am never in a hurry in the van and do attempt to keep to the limits, but it is easy to creep over unless you look at the speedo all the time, especially if it is downhill.  I think that this is one of those roads that change from 50 to 40 to 30 every couple of miles - so you have to be vigilant.

Perhaps I should change my driving style.  When I see a speed restriction sign I take my foot of the accelerator and usually I am at the right speed when I reach the sign. This saves breaking, wear and tear and is energy efficient.  

I suppose I can't complain as my first and only other speeding offence was nearly 40 years ago, although I can't help feeling that some of these 'safety' speed cameras are more about making money.


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## jagmanx (May 1, 2014)

*I sympathise 100%*

Do you have a satnav.
These can help you to do what you want to and their speed reading is more accurate than a speedo.
Very annoying 4 U as you "do your best" but we all need to be more careful these days.


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## Sharon the Cat (May 1, 2014)

Oops my sympathies.

I like the signs that flash up your speed. Far better.


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## novice1968 (May 1, 2014)

Fined 36mph on 30mph limit, that 's mean 
Must take special care if I ever venture into. Wale


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## Tezza33 (May 1, 2014)

You might find you have the option to go on a speed awareness course instead of a fine and penalty points


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## Deleted member 775 (May 1, 2014)

just a thought ,as all statements sent from the police have to be word perfect and any mistakes can be a way to avoid prosecution .just check that both the English and welsh language statements are both correct .its surprising how many mistakes are made in the translations .may be a point if there is any discrepancy . and ask for the calibration dates of ether the gatso or the camera vans equipment


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## Fazerloz (May 1, 2014)

Once in 40 years its not worth getting bothered about just think how many times you have got away with speeding and not got caught. :drive:


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## Obanboy666 (May 1, 2014)

I did the speed awareness course 2 years ago, 35 mph in 30 mph zone, first offence in 38 years of driving.
As i recall the fee for the speed awareness course was more than the fine but obviously you dont get the points.
I went to the course thinking what am i going to learn but had to admit it was educational and what alarmed me was my ignorance of many of the current road signs etc.
There was approx 20 attending the course and surprisingly only 1 person under 25 years old, the majority were 50 +.
One 70 year old was clocked twice in one day !
I went straight from the course and bought a highway code, now more aware of speed limits and as previous poster mentioned use the satnav especially when on unfamiliar roads.


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## mark61 (May 1, 2014)

Sat Navs are always a few seconds behind. Your speedo would have been showing nearer 40MPH


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## lebesset (May 1, 2014)

think youself lucky ...in france you are only ok up to 33 mph


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## fairytooth (May 1, 2014)

Well you haven't been fined - yet.  They might even invite you back to Wales for a speeding awareness course instead, you never know.


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## Marathonarthur (Apr 8, 2017)

*Me too!*



novice1968 said:


> Fined 36mph on 30mph limit, that 's mean
> Must take special care if I ever venture into. Wale



I got the same notice for the same error of 36mph.  On a Sunday it is so easy but you just have to accept and pay. First offence in years so not pleased with myself as they have just made this a new fines system. Band A fines can be 50% of weekly salary. As a pensioner who is also doing self employed work this may take a while for them to determine?  

I have relatives in Wales but still inclined to avoid the place as this almost is fund raising for SW Police.


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## antiquesam (Apr 8, 2017)

It's not the fine or the points so much, but your insurer will now fine you every year for five years.


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## witzend (Apr 8, 2017)

Torchy said:


> You might find you have the option to go on a speed awareness course instead of a fine and penalty points



You'll have to Pay for that but will get off the points So it really is about making money


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## trevskoda (Apr 8, 2017)

Went through a cam/big flash coming down a country rd hill into street with a few houses in scotty land,38 in 30 zone and fine landed on my door a few weeks later,i binned it and never heard another word ,but law has changed and all tickets can be inforced in all zones of gb and southern ireland.


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## eddyt (Apr 8, 2017)

hi
   if you dont get the first letter within a fortnight they can not enforce the
  ticket. they will send a second one and you will have to say you were driving
  or they will do you for not saying who was driving. they might not cancel the 
ticket and you will have to go to court. tell the court that you did not get the
  ticket in the fortnight and they will let you off.


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## Marathonarthur (Apr 9, 2017)

*More thoughts on Speeding fines*



fairytooth said:


> Well you haven't been fined - yet.  They might even invite you back to Wales for a speeding awareness course instead, you never know.



I think that the best option. A long time ago I was fined for a similar speed in Bath at 04.00am on a Sunday and did a course. I wonder how they will now charge for those as it was then more than the fine but as others say you then do not have the points. There may be rules on how many anyone can do?  Perhaps i will need to insist that I was in a different country!

I am trying to find humour to come to terms with my silly error but  ......................  not really succeeding.


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## ricc (Apr 9, 2017)

with all the mobile cameras and the proliferation of changing speed limits on rural roads its really only a case of when will we get caught,  nobody sticks to all the limits all the time.

it used to be you were allowed one course every three years, and not being a conviction there was no obligation to tell your insurance company. but check current position.


about 5 years ago we had one land on the doormat about a week after the wife had sold the car... we delayed sending the form back to the max days allowable, then duely informed them the car had been sold. 

 the new owner  (our daughter living at the same address) never heard a dicky bird. whether it took dvla more than the time limit to get the new owner details on the system or  it being mid august with all the staff on holiday helped is anyones guess, but only having passed her test a couple of weeks it could have been a retest and insurance implications.


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## Deleted member 27480 (Apr 9, 2017)

Yes, I was caught speeding at 36mph in a 30 zone in West Sussex a few weeks ago.  I have elected to take the speed awareness course costing £85 rather than a fixed fine of £100 and 3 points. A previous post has mentioned that it will affect insurance premiums but surely it should not if a prosecution never took place, unless the insurance company asks if you have been 'caught' speeding? Incidently, in Sydney, Australia where I lived for a number of years if you are caught committing any motoring offence over a Bank Holiday then the points against your licence are automatically doubled and a failure to pay a fine, even a parking fine, will result in the suspension of your driving license, so the UK is not so bad after all.


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## mistericeman (Apr 9, 2017)

britcoms said:


> Yes, I was caught speeding at 36mph in a 30 zone in West Sussex a few weeks ago.  I have elected to take the speed awareness course costing £85 rather than a fixed fine of £100 and 3 points. A previous post has mentioned that it will affect insurance premiums but surely it should not if a prosecution never took place, unless the insurance company asks if you have been 'caught' speeding? Incidently, in Sydney, Australia where I lived for a number of years if you are caught committing any motoring offence over a Bank Holiday then the points against your licence are automatically doubled and a failure to pay a fine, even a parking fine, will result in the suspension of your driving license, so the UK is not so bad after all.



From doing a speed awareness course a year or so back..... (caught on a deserted single carriageway road in deepest darkest Yorkshire moors 6 mph over the limit and my own fault completely) 
First time in over 15 years and bearing mind I drive on average 1000 miles a week I can't complain about my own lack of attention briefly. 

But the guys running the course stated that a speed awareness course doesn't count to MOST insurance companies... 
However some to count it the same as a conviction. 
He sort of mentioned Admiral as one of the ones that do. 
It's usually in the small print of the quote asking about speeding convictions and attendance at a speed awareness course etc.


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## maxi77 (Apr 9, 2017)

I find it very surprising that people feel the exceeding the speed limit by 20% is OK, especially when it is very widely known the discretionary tolerance is 10%. How fines for speeding can be considered a tax or scam by the authorities is beyond me, it is voluntary you choose to speed you pay the fine.


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## mistericeman (Apr 9, 2017)

maxi77 said:


> I find it very surprising that people feel the exceeding the speed limit by 20% is OK, especially when it is very widely known the discretionary tolerance is 10%. How fines for speeding can be considered a tax or scam by the authorities is beyond me, it is voluntary you choose to speed you pay the fine.



Spot on.....
 I did the crime and paid the price....
 as I said above a momentary lapse of concentration was all it took, and thankfully no one paid the price for it.  
I was the only one on my course of 40 odd folks that hadn't been caught in a 30 built up area. 
I frankly have no sympathy for anyone caught speeding... we know the limits (or at least SHOULD do) and have the equipment/info available to us to make sure we abide by the limits. 

Don't want to be caught by a camera/police patrol... 
Don't speed... Simples.


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## Campercaillie (Apr 9, 2017)

maxi77 said:


> I find it very surprising that people feel the exceeding the speed limit by 20% is OK, especially when it is very widely known the discretionary tolerance is 10%. How fines for speeding can be considered a tax or scam by the authorities is beyond me, it is voluntary you choose to speed you pay the fine.



In full agreement there! If people are still being caught speeding then there are insufficient deterrents. EVERY village that straddles an A road should have a speed camera facility. It doesn't have to be "live" all of the time, but should flash as normal at the speeding motorist, to give that feeling of doubt as to whether your have been caught or not. That period of doubt and worry in itself should be enough of a deterrent to avoid chancing it again. If cameras are "cash-cows," stop the whingeing, and given these times of austerity let's have MORE of them.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Apr 9, 2017)

It's very easy to be caught unaware,around this area quite a few roads have had the speed limits lowered recently and there are not many signs advertising the fact.It must be a remarkable coincidence that the police deploy speed cameras at the new lower speed limit sites,or is that me being cynical?

I can recommend the tomtom go mobile app for speed warnings,it displays the current road speed limit,is usually accurate and is regularly updated.It can be set to give an audio and/or visual warning if you exceed the limit,very useful if you are driving in an unfamiliar area as motorhomers invariably are.


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## runnach (Apr 9, 2017)

Re speed cameras, and the law may have changed but they are deployed where there has been deemed serious accidents or fatalities on a stretch of road. The councils and there are guidelines are governed by this.

Steves comment that "very easy to caught unaware" a prosecutor would deem admittance that the driver lapsed in due care and attention ?

I used to be part of a forum mainly made up of Serving Police, ex police, driving instructors, lawyers etc..and it was interesting over a period of time my mind changed re speeding A bit poacher tuned gamekeeper. What matters is the allegations and procedure is fair and robust, and plenty of evidence to suggest not always the case, The CPS being the biggest culprits.

You may think they stuck together a little bit and far from it, I distinctly recall a police driver who decided to pursue and untaxed car, hit a girl crssing the road on the brow of a hill and killed her the speed recorded 94 mph. Not only did his colleagues berate him, the internal disciplinary procedure of the Police is a different animal. In the end lost his job, pension, and liberty he got 5 years.

Fair and just then fair cop.

Channa


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## barge1914 (Apr 9, 2017)

*Satnav*



jagmanx said:


> Do you have a satnav.
> These can help you to do what you want to and their speed reading is more accurate than a speedo.
> Very annoying 4 U as you "do your best" but we all need to be more careful these days.



Careful as you go with Satnavs...don't trust them for speed limit info or position...even if it is up to date. Over the last 5 years of motoring at home and throughout Europe we have found the 'regularly updated Garmin info' many many years out of date... for the existence of limits, for the speed limits themselves, and for their extent. 

Those pesky 20 mph, or 30 kph limits are proliferating everywhere...the one that always foxes me are those in France. sometimes there's a limit next to a traffic hump or crossing...with no obvious derestriction sign to follow, so you're never quite sure when to speed up again...although there are plenty of honking Frenchmen to remind you! Others do have a clear termination. In Spain they love to put temporary ones out which can go on for miles and miles to end up with a tractor cutting hedges... and if you're unlucky a well concealed police car somewhere along the way. At least the French move them along after the tractor. On the other hand the French love speed traps after those 10kph gritty road signs...which go along for miles of nicely compacted tarmac without a spot of grit in sight!

Oh the joys ...

Ian


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## Ginge3685 (Apr 9, 2017)

*Speeding*

That was unfortunate getting caught at 35 mph. Speed cameras in Plymouth have a trigger at 38mph. Went on the speed awareness course, coffee and tea supplied and was told about that. I have been through cameras at 35 and no flash, but check with the local police as it may vary from county to county.


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## runnach (Apr 9, 2017)

Ginge3685 said:


> That was unfortunate getting caught at 35 mph. Speed cameras in Plymouth have a trigger at 38mph. Went on the speed awareness course, coffee and tea supplied and was told about that. I have been through cameras at 35 and no flash, but check with the local police as it may vary from county to county.



The tolerance does indeed vary force to force, some forces eg North Wales under Richard Brunstroms tenure adopted a 0 % tolerance. guidelines are set by the ACPO but are not binding to any particular force that remains within the remit of each CC. Hence the situation in North Wales.

Even where forces give dispensation of a tolerance let us dispel an urban myth and anal it may well sound. As far as the law is concerned 30.1 in a 30 mph the offence is complete. with no statutory defence 

Channa


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## trevskoda (Apr 9, 2017)

mistericeman said:


> Spot on.....
> I did the crime and paid the price....
> as I said above a momentary lapse of concentration was all it took, and thankfully no one paid the price for it.
> I was the only one on my course of 40 odd folks that hadn't been caught in a 30 built up area.
> ...



So do you drive watching the speedo when you should be looking out for kids behind parked cars and old dears wandering into the rd with there shopping trollys.
Fact is cars could be fitted with a gps audio warning device as standard shouting slow down speed limit 30etc so you can keep your porky pies on the rd.


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## Caz (Apr 9, 2017)

novice1968 said:


> Fined 36mph on 30mph limit, that 's mean
> Must take special care if I ever venture into. Wale





eddyt said:


> hi
> if you dont get the first letter within a fortnight they can not enforce the
> ticket. they will send a second one and you will have to say you were driving
> or they will do you for not saying who was driving. they might not cancel the
> ...



It's not just Wales. I got done 5 years ago for 35 in a 30 zone in Lincolnshire. The limit had just been dropped from 40 to 30 and they hadn't scrubbed out the 40 painted on the road - but that was not accepted as an excuse because the little round red bordered signs clearly said 30. 

I never received the initial letter, rang up to ask what it was all about when I got the stroppy reminder, they sent me a copy (received next day) and then the following day the original turned up. I tried to wriggle out of it by telling them that the original hadn't been received in the specified time scale but they countered that, according to their records, it was issued at the correct time. There was no post mark on the envelope so basically it was my word against theirs, so I gave in.


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## maxi77 (Apr 9, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> So do you drive watching the speedo when you should be looking out for kids behind parked cars and old dears wandering into the rd with there shopping trollys.
> Fact is cars could be fitted with a gps audio warning device as standard shouting slow down speed limit 30etc so you can keep your porky pies on the rd.



Any decent driver should be able to keep within the limit with only occasional checks of the speed, some might even suggest that if you cant perhaps you should consider not driving. There are many things a driver check as he drives and to be safe as a driver you need to cover them all  the time.


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## eddyt (Apr 9, 2017)

Caz said:


> It's not just Wales. I got done 5 years ago for 35 in a 30 zone in Lincolnshire. The limit had just been dropped from 40 to 30 and they hadn't scrubbed out the 40 painted on the road - but that was not accepted as an excuse because the little round red bordered signs clearly said 30.
> 
> I never received the initial letter, rang up to ask what it was all about when I got the stroppy reminder, they sent me a copy (received next day) and then the following day the original turned up. I tried to wriggle out of it by telling them that the original hadn't been received in the specified time scale but they countered that, according to their records, it was issued at the correct time. There was no post mark on the envelope so basically it was my word against theirs, so I gave in.



hi
  if you chose to go to court they would have let you off. if its not registered
  post they cant prove you got the letter. just them saying they posted it would
  not stand up in court.


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## runnach (Apr 9, 2017)

eddyt said:


> hi
> if you chose to go to court they would have let you off. if its not registered
> post they cant prove you got the letter. just them saying they posted it would
> not stand up in court.



May I suggest you go away and check your facts !! re the post of letters.. and its legal bearing you might find the law contradicts your assumption it has been tried and failed just to give a clue. As a rule and plenty of precedence the courts pretty much consider that paperwork was sent.

The 14 day NIP, the 6 months laying of papers to a court by the CPS,is an area that drives folk mad the CPS take the mick proving it court a totally different gig  

Channa


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## eddyt (Apr 9, 2017)

channa said:


> May I suggest you go away and check your facts !! re the post of letters.. and its legal bearing you might find the law contradicts your assumption it has been tried and failed just to give a clue. As a rule and plenty of precedence the courts pretty much consider that paperwork was sent.
> 
> The 14 day NIP, the 6 months laying of papers to a court by the CPS,is an area that drives folk mad the CPS take the mick proving it court a totally different gig
> 
> Channa



hi
  i dont need to check the facts. it has happened a couple times to me
  i have been to two different courts. with the same outcome.
  also if they dont send a summons for court in 6 months you are off
  due to statuet of limitations.


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