# running a camp site



## Paula (Jun 15, 2010)

Has anyone had any experience of owning or running a site?  Small or large?

Thinking vaguely about it in future,  but could do with a bit of feeback if anyone knows anything about it.

Also wonder if anyone has any ideas on where to look for one to purchase or rent.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Jun 15, 2010)

UK or abroad?


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## Tigatigatiger (Jun 15, 2010)

Hi Paula

It's something we would consider in the future. Having thought about etc. I would have two types of pitches on site. A good old fashioned camping field, with good basics, such as loos, shower etc with afew hook up points. Plus a very up market CL (5 van pitch place) hedged off hard standing pitches, with power, water and waste, own light picnic table and built BBQ's the works! and charge the earth for them-and these people with full onboard everything will pay you well! Just look at caravan site the "super pitches" are always booked up.

Paula


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## AL8 (Jun 15, 2010)

Here's a starter for the CL:
days of the year X cost per night X projected occupancy X 5 pitches = gross CL income per annum
IMHO, that would be:
365 X £10 X 40% X 5 = £10,950pa

What you think?


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## Paula (Jun 15, 2010)

Baloothebear
UK

Tigatigatiger
Sounds good - never tried one of those pitches.  Site would cost a fortune I imagine.  Can't see we can go there.  It is all just a thought.  Retirment age creeping up but no chance of retiring, no pensions  ooops

AL8
It would be a good start !


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## GregM (Jun 15, 2010)

AL8 said:


> Here's a starter for the CL:
> days of the year X cost per night X projected occupancy X 5 pitches = gross CL income per annum
> IMHO, that would be:
> 365 X £10 X 40% X 5 = £10,950pa
> ...



That assumes you are going for an all year site rather than a 7-8 month/year site.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Jun 15, 2010)

UK sites and you will need to get chummy with the local Planning Dept.

You might think that Councils would be interested in getting people into their areas but after a while, you will realise that it is just the opposite.

If you are thinking of allying yourself to one of the big clubs ie CC or C&CC you may well find that to your advantage. They may well be able to give you some very valuable pointers.

There is a rule whereby you can open a site for 28 days per year without planning permission IIRC: Whether you open for 28 days straight or stagger that as 14 weekends is up to you and your Solicitors (who you will get to know quite well if you go down that route)

It also depends on the part of the Country that you are interested in as to how much you are going to have to shell out for a field. Also, don't forget that you will have to budget in for drainage.

It can be done; you just have to be very polite and terribly persistent. Keep copies of all emails and letters. They may come in handy later.


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## vindiboy (Jun 15, 2010)

Another good route to go down is to get a job for a season on a camp site as a warden, try the CCC or CC they employ  seasonal wardens ,or try a private site, after a season of running around after some of the Cretins that despoil the toilet and shower blocks etc. you may decide that it is not for you and will have lost no money.


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## biggirafe (Jun 15, 2010)

vindiboy said:


> Another good route to go down is to get a job for a season on a camp site as a warden, try the CCC or CC they employ  seasonal wardens ,or try a private site, after a season of running around after some of the Cretins that despoil the toilet and shower blocks etc. you may decide that it is not for you and will have lost no money.



Thats very good advise, Over the years I spoken to many site wardens who had a vague idea that running a site would be a bit like being on an extended camping holiday only to find out that they were in fact glorified toilet cleaners for half of each day. Having said that its also a dream of mine to own a site


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## champstar (Jun 15, 2010)

I think the 28 day rule aaplies only to consecutive nights and then nothing for a specified number of days...that is they way the exemption cert works for the DAs of the C&CC. Better to look at getting a 5 van cite certified by either C&CC or CC or even the MCS then if you fence this area off you can have a rally field that will be covered by the camping groups exemption certs.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Jun 15, 2010)

champstar said:


> I think the 28 day rule aaplies only to consecutive nights and then nothing for a specified number of days...that is they way the exemption cert works for the DAs of the C&CC..



There are a few sites I know that are getting away with this. North Devon Council are led a merry dance by them hence my remarks about being on good terms with your Solicitors.

Sounds like a good plan to go and work a season to see if it is for you before you part with any money


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## vindiboy (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't know if this post will be allowed as I am refering to another  site, but Motorhome fun are trying to start up a series of CL sites and are looking for people with suitable land to start one, they already have the Exemption Certificate to enable this, might be another Avenue to explore.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Jun 16, 2010)

Regarding the Exemption Certificate: First I would suggest that you find the land before you go to all the stress of applying for one. I know some organisations who have got them and have never used them since getting it. 

btw - don't believe the hype, you don't need to go thru ACCEO to get a Certificate. You can do it yourself


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## AndyC (Jun 16, 2010)

I would suggest signing up to be an assistant site manager with the Camping and Caravanning Club in the first instance. That will give you an idea of what it's like. See: The Camping and Caravanning Club - Jobs at the Club

I expect the Caravan Club have similar positions, but the C&CC cater for all types of camping.

AndyC


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## AndyC (Jun 16, 2010)

baloothebear said:


> Regarding the Exemption Certificate: First I would suggest that you find the land before you go to all the stress of applying for one. I know some organisations who have got them and have never used them since getting it.
> 
> btw - don't believe the hype, you don't need to go thru ACCEO to get a Certificate. You can do it yourself


But you can't get an Exemption Certificate yourself to operate your own land as a CL or CS, you have to get the site approved by an Exempted Organisation such as C&CC, CC, MCC, MHFun...

AndyC


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## kangooroo (Jun 16, 2010)

I haven't actually owned or run a campsite but I have been involved in setting one up from the market research stages through to the official opening and launch.  

The process took nearly 3 years in a supposedly camper-friendly area.  The main delay was getting planning consent and approval from Welsh Water which, together with the Council, dragged their heels and caused long delays.

Once up and running, the site has been a roaring success.  The locals who'd originally objected due to concerns re noise agreed their fears were unfounded and the site has been busy with good occupancy rates.

I haven't seen the books to assess how financially viable the site is but on passing it regularly, I can see it's well-used and the owners, who employ cleaners, seem happy with their venture.


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## IJenk52 (Jun 17, 2010)

I've owned a 100 pitch caravan/campsite at Goathland (Heartbeat country)for the last 12 years and have just sold it to my ex-partner at the end of last year.  I'd be pleased to answer any specific questions but am saving all the general chat for my book, 10 years experience is way too much for a single post!


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## jonnie (May 18, 2011)

*Running A Campsite*



Paula said:


> Has anyone had any experience of owning or running a site?  Small or large?
> Thinking vaguely about it in future,  but could do with a bit of feeback if anyone knows anything about it.
> Also wonder if anyone has any ideas on where to look for one to purchase or rent.


 
Hi Paula

I own and run a 160 place campsite with land area 35 thousand square meters.

I have to be frank and say that vague thinking will not get you anywhere I hope this does not sound too direct but I do run a website for people buying and selling small tourist businesses and I have a lot of experience with different people who have different levels of how can I put it? "get up and go - determination" - there are a lot of people who "think" about changing lifestyle but only about 10% actually take the leap and it takes courage and determination. I never look back, I have owned and run a mountain side hotel and then a campsite, I could not go back to working in an office but the final decision to take the leap took a lot of courage, we risked everything.

If you are planning ten spaces on a farm then thats not going to be too difficult to achieve as long as you have the council on your side but you will never make a living doing this.

We are a family of three and we just about achieve what some might call a double (two people working) semi-professional income running 160 spaces and we dont owe the bank a huge amount. We work long hours and we needed to put a large amount of capital into the equation, our occupation rates are high.

People make the mistake of thinking that revenue is the same as profit on a campsite, they understand that the revenue for a hotel is diminished by many outgoings before the profit can be taken but think the only outgoings for a campsite are electricity. We pay around 4000 for electricity a year but add to this signicant amounts for water, garbage collection, professional memberships, advertising, insurance, maintenance, renewal of wornout equipment, heating, petrol for lawnmowers strimmers and chainsaws, internet and website, bank repayments. We spend over 5000 on advertising a year, it costs a lot to be in a "year book".

I think there is some romanticism with the notion of running a campsite, on our website we have many more hotels and B&Bs advertised for sale and only ten or so campsites yet half our website traffic is people searching for campsites for sale. I am not sure but I think people may think that running a campsite requires less investment, less risk or perhaps less work than buying and running a hotel - this is not true in my opinion. 

The hotel business we owned and ran was equivalent in terms of income ( actually slightly less ) - it was about the same in terms of the amount of our money we had to invest and about the same amount of work ( although more outdoor work for me which I love ). I dont think a campsite is an easier or cheaper option, its just different and will suit some more than others, for the right person its a fantastic thing to do.

I would advise anyone thinking of buying or starting a larger campsite to offer their services and go work for an existing campsite free of charge for a week or so. I have offered free (lux) hut accomodation in return for a little work to some folks looking at this as an option - I have been amazed at the replies indicating they dont have time or "maybe but its a bit far to travel for us" - they are thinking of investing everything they have, they are thinking of a radically different lifestyle but they are too busy to spend a week actually sampling the lifestyle and getting free hands on experience and knowledge? 

Sometime ago I wrote a document which is mainly aimed at someone who wants to buy an existing campsite but also has a lot of advise that is relevent for someone who wants to start one. You can find it here...

How To Buy A Campsite / Running A Campsite or Campground

I add to this document from time to time so its worth coming back now and then.

I hope this helps

Kind regards
Jon


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## jonnie (May 18, 2011)

AL8 said:
			
		

> Here's a starter for the CL:
> days of the year X cost per night X projected occupancy X 5 pitches = gross CL income per annum
> IMHO, that would be:
> 365 X £10 X 40% X 5 = £10,950pa
> ...





GregM said:


> That assumes you are going for an all year site rather than a 7-8 month/year site.


 
Depends on how the original poster defined the term occupancy.

I own and run a campsite and I use the term to indicate the average over a year even though we are closed some of this time.

It makes more sense to use a year adjusted average because most aspects of financial calculation are for one year not the opening period.

This is an important calculation to get right if you are thinking of starting from scratch, its not a trivial calculation to get right. I never had to get this right because I bought an existing campsite business - this is one of the reasons businesses sell for a figure usually based on revenue rather than based on replacement value of assets - you are paying for the re-assurance of an existing turnover and client base.

Jon


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## jonnie (May 18, 2011)

*Forthcoming Book*



IJenk52 said:


> I've owned a 100 pitch caravan/campsite at Goathland (Heartbeat country)for the last 12 years and have just sold it to my ex-partner at the end of last year.  I'd be pleased to answer any specific questions but am saving all the general chat for my book, 10 years experience is way too much for a single post!


 
Hello IJenk from a fellow campsite owner.

The book sounds interesting.

I run a website for people buying and selling small tourist businesses, hotels, B&Bs and campsites. We get equal amounts of visitors looking for hotels,B&Bs as we do for campsites alone - in other words our site traffic is disproportionately high for campsites.

I would be happy to enter into a non-financial trade of publicity, the website is well established and highly specialised and as so may well represent your target audience.

I wont add a direct link but if you go to google and tap in 

BuyMyDreamHotel

You will find us easily enough, under the information section there are lists of recommended reading. The reason the list of books is exclusively B&B related is that too date I havent seen any publications on running campsites apart from an Italian book which goes back to a time my wife and I were researching purchasing an Italian campsite.

Kind regards
Jon


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## donkey too (May 18, 2011)

Personally if I had the land, I would say bugger the camp site and start a caravan, camper, boat etc., storage park. 
The one where I store my trading trailer is situated in a large wood on an old airfield site and stores 1600 units. The minimum payment for 12 months is 75 UKP per year and that is for a small caravan/ trailer in the open. Prices do go up to 2 and a half time more than that for some of the larger units and for indoor (an old aircraft hanger) and undercover (dutch barn type thing).
That is good money in my mind.


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## Deleted member 967 (May 18, 2011)

Paula said:


> Baloothebear
> UK
> 
> Tigatigatiger
> ...


 
CL site at Sedgefield in County Durham has individual hard standing pitches divided by a wide grass area, each with its own water tap.  waste water drain, satelite hook-up point and EHU.  Electricity is on a pre pay meter at 14p Kwh cards available at £3 £5 or £10.

This CL was charging £10 per night last time I visited in September. Site also has MH dump point.

A Full club site would charge £25 or £30 for the same level of serviced site.


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## Deleted member 967 (May 18, 2011)

I ran a caravan storage site on 2.8 acres and had 220 vans in storage for 10 years.  Problems despite security fencing were theft.  Some of this was organised theft from my site and two others.  The vans were taken to a Gypsy site in Carlisle where they were collected by a legitimate haulage company and taken to Stranraer for export to Ireland.  The ferry company accepted then as green caravan or blue & white caravan and the person booking then in accepted a cross as a signature.  

A further spate that put me out of business was a local Garage.  They drove a transporter through the fence and loaded a van with wheel clamps, steady locks, and alarm.  The van next to this one was the same model a year older with no security.  They were definitely sealing to order. They were eventually caught the day I closed.  They were found in the compound loading a van onto a transporter and they had five other vans on cars ready to go.

They were obviously watching me as I lived on site but from time to time had to pop out.  It was always at these times that I was done.

I have been the exemption certificate for a club that has all of the exemptions.  There are actually 15 clubs now that can issue CL type exemptions to site owners.
Information here: http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/combined-guide_tcm6-9572.pdf

The 28 day rule applies to one caravan for no more than 2 nights on unlicensed land.  It has been quoted even by DEFRA in other circumstances but if you read the act it only applies to that one section.  The 28 days use of a CL or Holiday site is an agreement between DEFRA (Natural England) and the Big clubs and The Association of Caravan and Camping Exempted Organisations which represents about 50% of exempted clubs.

As has been stated before a properly constituted club can get exemptions without going through ACCEO.  I have done it for my own club and a National Organisation.  I got both organisations para 4, 5 and 6 plus camping.

If you go on line and look for "Caravan Sites Model Standards" you will see the requirements that are required for a licenced caravan site.
An example here: http://www.suffolkcoastal.gov.uk/NR...9DB4017B/0/EMASMODELSTANDARDSTOURINGSITES.pdf

There are also different standards for Residential sites.


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## Firefox (May 18, 2011)

AL8 said:


> Here's a starter for the CL:
> days of the year X cost per night X projected occupancy X 5 pitches = gross CL income per annum
> IMHO, that would be:
> 365 X £10 X 40% X 5 = £10,950pa
> ...



The % occupancy depends so very much on location. I'd think 40% over the whole year would be for a very good location.

For a more average place 20-30% may be closer to the mark. 

I've been to a fair few out of the way CL's and even in summer, one or two units can be the norm.

By the time you've got your hook ups installed and saftey checked, advertised, and gone through all the hassle of telephone bookings and non shows I doubt there's much money in this. But I guess it would suit a person without full time employment who has ample time to answer the phone and collect the £5's and £10's here and there.


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## Bambi 2 (Jun 2, 2011)

*running a  camp site*

For me the best bit about running our campsite near the pembrokeshire coast was selling it! we took on a campsite with takings of £2000 per year, we worked and worked at it, we managed to get storage permission and then the business took off, when we sold it the takings were a thousand pounds a week, but the running of the place put a strain on our marriage we worked 7 days a week and we had very little rest, some of the public were awful and made life very stressful. would I do it again? 
NO THANKS!!!!!  Bambi 2


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