# Loosing pub stops...



## st3v3 (Aug 24, 2016)

I've seen a lot of threads saying certain pubs don't want us any more. Now, I run my own business and in that situation would love campers who eat / drink instead of some couple who have 2 pints and bugger off - especially as some will leave a car parked and taxi home anyway.

As far as I'm concerned this must be people using the database and not spending in the pub. We've just lost one of our favourites - they were calling us regulars - and I'm quite annoyed!

So, if this is you, I'd love to hear your reasoning. You're going to have to work *very* hard though!

Anyone else concerned by this?


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## izwozral (Aug 24, 2016)

Not been affected so far. Very bad manners and mean spirited if you are allowed to camp/MH in the car park and not buy some drinks at least.

Slightly different. We asked at The Aspinall Arms near Clitheroe if it was ok to stay in the car park if we ate and had a few drinks. "Of course" was the reply, we spent £90.00 on meals, wine and spirits. Next morning another manager came over to the MH and told us under no circumstances were we allowed to stay there.
We wrote to Brunning and Price [the owners] head office and asked what the official policy was. We were told basically that, allowing MH's  wasn't something they wanted to pursue. I cited this forum, the age bracket, disposable income et al. 
I might as well have spoken to a brick wall.

Incidentally, the car park was huge and although the pub and garden was very busy, there was still room for at least 30 more cars.


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## Ed on Toast (Aug 24, 2016)

Well, just to turn the tide, so to speak... On my way back from the 'Land of Porridge' to the 'Green and Pleasant Land'  I broke the journey at Metal Bridge, they have just  built a specific parking area for Campers/Motorhomes, although there is currently a sign for English Waits, they are now hope to see polite but wild ones.


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## QFour (Aug 24, 2016)

We used to use a CL site round the corner from The Jug and Glass. We would walk to the pub and I did ask if we could stay overnight. Certainly NOT was his answer. Turned out the last person that stayed had been there 3 months before they finally got shut of him.

Anyway one night it was raining and we took the MH rather then get wet. Biggish car park so no problems parking. We had a meal and a drink when the Landlord came over to discuss our MH in his car park.

If you want to stay next time you come just give us a ring he said. You can park round the back.

We have been back on a number of occasions and always get a friendly welcome and it is on the POI Database.

..

When some pubs change hands a new broom will decide they don't want the car park blocking with MH's. Then they realise that we do spend money but then it's to late.

..


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## maingate (Aug 24, 2016)

In my experience, the Managers of Pubs that are part of a Pub Chain may well let you stay. I have been told that it is not Company Policy but they will allow it after asking what time I will leave in the morning. If it is a Free House, the Manager has more control and will be more amenable if you are spending money in the Pub.


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## ScamperVan (Aug 25, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> Well, just to turn the tide, so to speak... On my way back from the 'Land of Porridge' to the 'Green and Pleasant Land'  I broke the journey at Metal Bridge, they have just  built a specific parking area for Campers/Motorhomes, although there is currently a sign for English Waits, they are now hope to see polite but wild ones.



The Metal Bridge in Carlisle? There is a village (?) in Co. Durham, just off the A1, called Metal Bridge, with 2 pubs.


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## Ed on Toast (Aug 25, 2016)

Apologies, to clarify, just North of Carlisle next to the M6.


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## Wooie1958 (Aug 25, 2016)

I think this is it       The Metal Bridge Inn In Carlisle


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## Deleted member 58274 (Aug 25, 2016)

It is the Metal Bridge near Carjisle with the dedicated area for MHs. We had a meal and drinks and the freindly landlady offered us a shower and a room to plug a hairdryer in the next morning. The landlady commented on the fact that there have been up to 15 or so units overnighting and enjoys the business generated by them. Wouldn't be surprised if EHU's appear at some point. Good stopover on way to and from Scotland.

On the general issues raised, it would be a shame to lose any more pubs. Up to us to promote the benefits to owners/landlords and have, at least, a few drinks. We usually state our intentions to eat/drink upon arrival if not already done so when booking by phone.

Maja


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## Andyzot (Sep 1, 2016)

Stopped at a 'chain' pub in Somerset over the weekend, asked the landlord who basically said 'he knew nothing about it' wink, wink and what he didn't know wouldn't hurt. 
The better half didn't feel comfortable so we had to move on.


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## Caz (Sep 4, 2016)

Stopped at Metal Bridge on the way to the Orkney meet, because it is in the Britstops book. I understood they are putting in extra parking and building a shower/toilet room "for Britstoppers". 

It's actually quite interesting to see just how many places on the Wild Camping POIs are also listed in Britstops - but I find the book is a lot easier to use when on the move than the POIs.


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## jake (Sep 5, 2016)

AndyR said:


> Whether a pub is in the POI database or not, I always go in the second I've parked (in the furthest away spot possible so as not to block any other spaces), ask to see the manager, and say that I've just parked a motorhome in his car park and am planning on coming in for a meal and a few drinks. Would they mind if I spent the night and left by 10 the next morning? I think the key word is 'parked', I wouldn't dream of putting up awnings or sticking out chairs etc etc.
> 
> I've never been refused yet, but I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later, when it does, they'll get a polite and friendly 'thanks anyway' and I'll move on.



I agree entirely ,if they don't want my money :dance:move to some one that does !:dance:


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## Harry (Sep 5, 2016)

So people moan about campsite prices for a night yet some are more than happy to spend around £50 to £90 on food then camp in a car park I thought this site was about wild camping I don't get it lol


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## st3v3 (Sep 5, 2016)

Harry said:


> So people moan about campsite prices for a night yet some are more than happy to spend around £50 to £90 on food then camp in a car park I thought this site was about wild camping I don't get it lol



Missing the point Harry. Pub stops are not supposed to be wild camping, but have a purpose - a night off from cooking, warm up, meet people etc.

You can't justify stopping in a pub car park without using the pub.


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## Caz (Sep 5, 2016)

As a lone traveller, a pub car park makes sense for me. I spend about the same as I would on a (sensibly priced) site (£10 - £15) and have the advantage of no cooking or washing up to do. Pub stops are a sort of halfway stage between a site and a wild camp.

Anyway, many sites will only take bookings for 2 nights or more.


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## runnach (Sep 6, 2016)

st3v3 said:


> I've seen a lot of threads saying certain pubs don't want us any more. Now, I run my own business and in that situation would love campers who eat / drink instead of some couple who have 2 pints and bugger off - especially as some will leave a car parked and taxi home anyway.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned this must be people using the database and not spending in the pub. We've just lost one of our favourites - they were calling us regulars - and I'm quite annoyed!
> 
> ...



I am not so sure the pubs don't want us, but perhaps and it is a perhaps landlords and groups who have played ball in the past are increasingly aware that they could be prosecuted under the licensing act 2003.

Firstly some one mentioned they stopped at a CL close to a pub. Within that is part of the answer, a CL / CS has dispensation under the caravan control development act to allow overnight "Camping" pubs don't as a rule. The average landlord will probably never even have heard of the legislation. I suspect the pub metal bridge has exemption if not, possibly unaware of the law. Because they are spending money doesn't mean they understand the law and could well be contravening the CDA act. 

CDA act aside for a second.

The licensing act 2003 has four cornerstones (England and Wales Scots have their own act)
The four cornerstones of the licensing regime are:
 The Licensing Act 2003 (the 2003 Act) and Regulations made under it;
 The Statutory Guidance issued by the Home Office;
 The four licensing objectives:
 Prevention of Crime and Disorder,
 The prevention of Public Nuisance;
 The promotion of Public safety; and
 The protection of Children from harm.
And
 The Statement of Licensing policy issued by the licensing authority. 

It all sounds very straightforward but isn't , the cornerstones are very non prescriptive. Let me give an example.

The prevention of Public Nuisance, Playing music, the premises licence will state what time live and recorded music can be played too so thats taken care of If  I stick to it .But no, My cellar chiller unit creates noise, local neighbour complains have I prevented public nuisance? I quote this example because it has happened. It went to court and the court found in favour of the neighbour.

Any noise a camper in a car park makes or its occupants, could be construed as allowing public nuisance or not preventing it , an innocent early start of engines starting etc.

If as a lot do have a meal and a couple of drinks retire to the van, and perhaps have a few nightcaps, and something should happen have I prevented public disorder / Nuisance on my premises ? I haven't regulated the alcohol consumed, Occupants have a slanging match, have I prevented public nuisance ? 

There is also the issue a lot of the insurances apply only to trading hours.

I am trying to illustrate a different perspective, but lose your personal licence you have lost your business.

It is not that pubs dont want the business, but allowing overnight parking has potentially disastrous consequences for the licencee .

The reality is down to minorities again too perhaps but has an ex landlord not worth the risk ..

Channa


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## kimbowbill (Sep 6, 2016)

so, if i come to a pub in my car, say, then leave it overnight cos ive had one too many, whats the difference? i just cant see the problem, the only thing i can think of is the locals don't like it,


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## runnach (Sep 6, 2016)

kimbowbill said:


> so, if i come to a pub in my car, say, then leave it overnight cos ive had one too many, whats the difference? i just cant see the problem, the only thing i can think of is the locals don't like it,



And thee locals not " liking it" could cost a livelihood that's the difference
Channa


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## mistericeman (Sep 6, 2016)

I very much doubt a, few motor homes parking up on the odd occasion is frankly going to make that much difference.... 
Over priced poor beer, poor food, smoking ban and a, general swing in people's drinking habits let alone an overly greedy brewery chain are far more likely to see another pub either flattened OR turned into residential.


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## vwalan (Sep 6, 2016)

pub stops also break the rules in the camping caravan act . the landlord or pub owner could be done under the act . 28 consequetive days only to allow you stopping or anyone else . why should a landlord risk being done . 
yes an odd night but word gets out and suddenly there can be one or two every night or weekend . 
spoils the odd night idea.


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## jake (Sep 6, 2016)

I always use cemeteries no one alive complains there :scared:


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## maingate (Sep 6, 2016)

Stopping at Pubs is an expensive way to use your Motorhome (apart from the Legal issues).

I am currently on a small site that will normally cost £10 per night plus £2.50 if you want a hookup. It is on a Brewery Premises, has a Bar, has excellent meals at cheaper prices than most Pubs and is in a lovely part of Lincolnshire. It works out cheaper than a Pub stop because you are not committed to eating or drinking on the premises.


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## Ed on Toast (Sep 6, 2016)

Could there be a place for a small A5 leaflet, if there is not already one somewhere?

'Wild Camping' ! ! ! !

What it is about, how it is legal, promotes trade, free for publicans, blar, blar, blar !

I recall chatting with the publican at a great pub in Kielder (now on the latest update of POI's) and he must have said three or four times:

_'So this doesn't even cost me anything'_

I am guessing 'Other' alternative may have charged him

Maybe 10,000 leaflets cost about £70, colour, two sided, carrying our agreed promotional message. Everyone take and carry a few on their camper on the next meet and... well just a thought


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## runnach (Sep 6, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> Could there be a place for a small A5 leaflet, if there is not already one somewhere?
> 
> 'Wild Camping' ! ! ! !
> 
> ...


Conditions of the premises licence, Designated Supervisor of the Premises obligations under the Local Authorities Licensing act, The caravan and Development, All good reasons not to do it !.

When we get a POI that is questionable, it is removed. I can't see Phil actively promoting pub stops when he too is aware There are potential legal issues.

I am trying to point out when people say "stuff em spend my money elsewhere" There are very valid reasons to not allow overnight stops. I would suggest in 95% of cases, Landlords are not familiar with the law, of course innocent ignorance is no defense.



Channa


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## runnach (Sep 6, 2016)

kimbowbill said:


> so, if i come to a pub in my car, say, then leave it overnight cos ive had one too many, whats the difference? i just cant see the problem, the only thing i can think of is the locals don't like it,


 Just read my response Jen which is true but perhaps reads a bit sharp.

The difference with a car is there is no sleeping accommodation, If I let you sleep in the car chance when it got cold you could drive away OPL . Motor caravans have heating etc and sleeping quarters so very different. 

If you are in a car and put you in a taxi home that car is unoccupied, So the risk of causing public nuisance and preventing crime and disorder I have fulfilled within the spirit of the legislation. (and possibly looked after you )

The scenario in my first paragraph happened to a friend of mine who is a policeman in Derbyshire, Two lads holed up in a pub car park ,convinced him they were stopping the night , it got cold two hours later they went breezing past the panda car and yup still OPL. To this day he feels let down for trusting them. I shall let you work out how he treats it all now !

Channa


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## Ed on Toast (Sep 6, 2016)

Very interesting

Although it is my understanding that the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 clearly prohibits, a little more investigation shows WC would or could qualify as an Exempted Organisation, is this correct?

If so, it may offer a good opportunity, would it not?  

Be gentle, remember i am a newbie and still have much to learn.


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## Ed on Toast (Sep 6, 2016)

Maybe there is a good an interesting debate to be had on this but maybe in the MEMBERS ONLY Section ?


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## runnach (Sep 6, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> Maybe there is a good an interesting debate to be had on this but maybe in the MEMBERS ONLY Section ?



Quite frankly no debate to be had.

Phil has an exemption certificate I believe so thats taken care of.

Most pubs have no idea what one is , so allowing overnight stops is a tad naughty within the rules.The WC exemption certificate covers an organised meet not adhoc stopping overnight re the original post. That is important to get your head around. 

The thread is about adhoc stops not an organised meet to drive the point home.

So we have an exemption certificate, however a member decides to berate a few folk who criticise that they let their dogs loose ( I can think of one I assure you ) Blazing row ensues ....Have I as a landlord taken reasonable steps to prevent public disorder ? I am not convinced a court would see it that way.

The miscreant carries on their way not giving a toss if and how their behaviour effects anyone else. 

Meanwhile I am the idiot that has to explain put my livelihood on the line ..I don't think so.

The scenario not far fetched, it has happened.Other members will no doubt back me up perhaps.

Do you honestly think for a few quid income this scenario (potential) is worthwhile ? 

The risk and reward simply don't equate 

Channa


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## Ed on Toast (Sep 6, 2016)

I am thinking the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 Para 5. Is there to ease legal compliance, specifically for landlords and Farmer (5 van limit applies)


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## alcam (Sep 6, 2016)

channa said:


> Quite frankly no debate to be had.
> 
> Phil has an exemption certificate I believe so thats taken care of.
> 
> ...



To be honest if I had a pub , for example ,  in a rural area . I would let people stop over . The law breaking side of it is really a technicality and I don't believe there is much chance of being 'done' . You've got much more chance of being done for having a lock-in . Do you honestly think the average bobby knows , or cares about this quite obscure law ?


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## vwalan (Sep 6, 2016)

alcam said:


> To be honest if I had a pub , for example ,  in a rural area . I would let people stop over . The law breaking side of it is really a technicality and I don't believe there is much chance of being 'done' . You've got much more chance of being done for having a lock-in . Do you honestly think the average bobby knows , or cares about this quite obscure law ?



but campsite owners do or the caravan club etc . and lots of locals . 
dont need police to activate the crime . 
in this age of folk not really liking m,home owners best not give anyone the chance to drop a note into the council. 
might surpise you just how many farmers get reported for letting folk use a field for too long in the summer etc .


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## Ed on Toast (Sep 6, 2016)

Both valid points by Channa and Alan but I am reading Para 5 and this has a totally different slant on things for Exempted Organisations. If, I am reading it correctly, that is, lol :rulez:


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## vwalan (Sep 6, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> Both valid points by Channa and Alan but I am reading Para 5 and this has a totally different slant on things for Exempted Organisations. If, I am reading it correctly, that is, lol :rulez:



but remember there are lots of pub stop lists going around . 
bit like lists of where to stop wild etc . think of how many small clubs or forums etc that there are . plus many get told to foreign clubs etc , it just goes on . 
there was a few pubs round here that let it happen but it got that regular the landlords got warned to stop it . 
losing the licence to sell beer is more important . 
plus should you lose the licence their jobs and house could be lost.


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## Ed on Toast (Sep 6, 2016)

Exempted Organisation can issue landlords with certificates to allow their members, up to five, in total 24 hours free parking for motor-homes/campers. 

This section under para 5 (b) is especially there to help landlords and farmers.

I seem to have heard we hold Exempted Organisation status. If I am reading this right then it would give more protection and support to landlords and farmers and credibility to WC.co.uk as an organisation, by issuing such certificates.


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## runnach (Sep 6, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> Exempted Organisation can issue landlords with certificates to allow their members, up to five, in total 24 hours free parking for motor-homes/campers.
> 
> This section under para 5 (b) is especially there to help landlords and farmers.
> 
> I seem to have heard we hold Exempted Organisation status. If I am reading this right then it would give more protection and support to landlords and farmers and credibility to WC.co.uk as an organisation, by issuing such certificates.



Truthful answer ? simply not worth the effort ...quote all you want, it isn' t you stood in a court fighting for your livelihood when it goes pear shaped...as I mentioned earlier members allowing their darling dogs etc causing nuisance etc you are conveniently forgetting or choose too the implications of the licensing act 2003 so non prescriptive beyond belief 

Exempted under the cda is least of your worries 

Channa


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## vwalan (Sep 6, 2016)

channa said:


> Truthful answer ? simply not worth the effort ...quote all you want, it isn' t you stood in a court fighting for your livelihood when it goes pear shaped...as I mentioned earlier members allowing their darling dogs etc causing nuisance etc you are conveniently forgetting or choose too the implications of the licensing act 2003 so non prescriptive beyond belief
> 
> Exempted under the cda is least of your worries
> 
> Channa



must be a donny saying ...
none so deaf as them that dont want to hear. 
hee hee .


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## Deleted member 58274 (Sep 6, 2016)

Well, what a debate !! Started as "loss of pubs" for overnighting but now seems to be a furious exchange of the legalities of staying in such places. As for the earlier threads, it would seem to be a matter of personal taste as to wether one should spend one's money in a camp site, or on meal/drinks in a pub for a free stopover. If you have 6 sprogs and a couple of dogs then the camp site maybe best !!  As a retired couple like us though, we enjoy camp sites, but also the pub stopovers too. As WC members should we not all firstly respect each others tastes then, more importantly, support all scenarios where we can all enjoy our MH's ? 

Some of the threads wiff of allegience to one side or the other....what we really need is both sites/pubs to thrive together as "staycationing" and MH ownership is forever on the increase. We need the options to increase so we can all have the experiences we want. 

Yes, we are members of a pub stopover club....but also C and C club too !! Can we all respect each others tastes ? 

Maja07


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## mistericeman (Sep 6, 2016)

channa said:


> Truthful answer ? simply not worth the effort ...quote all you want, it isn' t you stood in a court fighting for your livelihood when it goes pear shaped...as I mentioned earlier members allowing their darling dogs etc causing nuisance etc you are conveniently forgetting or choose too the implications of the licensing act 2003 so non prescriptive beyond belief
> 
> Exempted under the cda is least of your worries
> 
> Channa



BUT then neither is it YOU stood in court IF someone else chooses to allow a MH to stop over in THEIR car park.... 
OK to the letter of the law possible not totally legal BUT if someone chooses to turn a blind eye, 
 OR has a pub in a quiet location with a suitable car park and good relations with their neighbours then surely that's THEIR choice AND risk. 

Frankly I can think of few things worse than parking in a pub car park OR come to that a public car park... but it seems to be what some folks like, so who am I to say it's not right (though for me 'wild camping' is pretty much as it says on the tin.... camping in the wild, not saving a couple of quid on a nice site/cl/etc) 

different strokes for different folks....


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## maingate (Sep 6, 2016)

I am quite surprised that I have heard nothing about the CC and C&CC making a fuss about Pub Stops in general. The Clubs have a powerful lobby with MP's and even get involved in local disputes about Motorhome parking. It is only a matter of time in my humble opinion.

We have used only one WC POI on this trip as many are unsuitable. I have no intention of overnighting in a layby a few yards from a busy Trunk Road or a tiny pull in where my wheels are barely off the tarmac. That is why I am a member of one of the Clubs. A Pub is a good alternative place for a night, so I am not knocking the idea.

The 1960 Caravan Act will never be changed, so learn to live with it. It is grossly unfair when compared to Europe but the 2 big Clubs will ensure they hold their dominant position.


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## vwalan (Sep 6, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> BUT then neither is it YOU stood in court IF someone else chooses to allow a MH to stop over in THEIR car park....
> OK to the letter of the law possible not totally legal BUT if someone chooses to turn a blind eye,
> OR has a pub in a quiet location with a suitable car park and good relations with their neighbours then surely that's THEIR choice AND risk.
> 
> ...



i fit into the dont like campsite brigade . 
dont mind a carpark /. never hardly use pubs they charge too much for their beer . 
for years have wild free camped here and almost every where i have been. 
sometimes a campsite is a good choice . el jadida in morocco a good one . 
but we do have to understand rules etc . 
i do use truck stops . i,m an ex trucker . plus many i,m the baby . fit in here when you grow up you will be a full size truck . 
  having driven fridge trucks i dont mind being next to a fridge truck . 
horses for courses , but i can under stand pubs saying no. 
part of me having a mini artic is its different . truckers love it . abroad it looks like a truck so park up here its ok . in uk parked in layby,s it looks ok . industrial estates thats ok as well. dont need prison sory campsites but it could be others need them . best every body users them . 
hee hee .
i also prefer truck stops to restaurants . 
glad others dont .


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## Ed on Toast (Sep 6, 2016)

I think it is a discussion worth having but if it is done as a  hell bent on winning some sort of argument, at all costs, it just really is not worth having. 
_
Brit Stops: _
Downloadable leaflets, specifically for hosts 
Special car parks, signed for Brit Stops motor-homes -  Metal Bridge Inn as an example. 

I am a newbie to all this but I enjoy Wild Camping, Pubs and Campsites, in no particular order.

The world out there is changing and there are opportunities we can either take or choose not to take, it is about having discussions to form our opinions. 

There is a time and place for some to dart about in shadows and there is a time to be part of the development of some new protocols. Fail to adapt and we may well continue to loose such stops.


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## alcam (Sep 6, 2016)

Has any pub landlord been done for this ?
Seems to me to be similar to the drinking in Motorhomes/Gassing debates


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## vwalan (Sep 6, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> I think it is a discussion worth having but if it is done as a  hell bent on winning some sort of argument, at all costs, it just really is not worth having.
> _
> Brit Stops: _
> Downloadable leaflets, specifically for hosts
> ...


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## runnach (Sep 6, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> BUT then neither is it YOU stood in court IF someone else chooses to allow a MH to stop over in THEIR car park....
> OK to the letter of the law possible not totally legal BUT if someone chooses to turn a blind eye,
> OR has a pub in a quiet location with a suitable car park and good relations with their neighbours then surely that's THEIR choice AND risk.
> 
> ...


 You are a confusing character defending the Police to the lengthiest degree , Breaking the law is breaking the law period. And are you suggesting that a landlord puts his livelihood in jeopardy ? For your recreational purposes.

Lets spin it a bit, Invite Hse to a aircon job tomorrow, Wear a t shirt so arms exposed , no goggles, no gloves and let the refrigerant loose ....Would you do it ? we both no the answer !  ..So I think it is a bit rich expecting others to turn a blind eye ...sameshite different shovel 

Channa


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## mistericeman (Sep 6, 2016)

channa said:


> You are a confusing character defending the Police to the lengthiest degree , Breaking the law is breaking the law period. And are you suggesting that a landlord puts his livelihood in jeopardy ? For your recreational purposes.
> 
> Lets spin it a bit, Invite Hse to a aircon job tomorrow, Wear a t shirt so arms exposed , no goggles, no gloves and let the refrigerant loose ....Would you do it ? we both no the answer !  ..So I think it is a bit rich expecting others to turn a blind eye ...sameshite different shovel
> 
> Channa



I'm suggesting it's the Landlords OWN choice... not mine, yours OR anyone else's come to that. 

Frankly I'd rather remove parts of my anatomy with a blunt knife than stop in your average pub OR come to that public car park.... however I'd defend others rights to their own free choice to the end. 

My pub MY choice....

anyone else... it's up to them to take their own risk


I think you may have misunderstood my post slightly


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## runnach (Sep 6, 2016)

vwalan said:


> Ed on Tour said:
> 
> 
> > I think it is a discussion worth having but if it is done as a  hell bent on winning some sort of argument, at all costs, it just really is not worth having.
> ...


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## Canalsman (Sep 7, 2016)

maingate said:


> We have used only one WC POI on this trip as many are unsuitable. I have no intention of overnighting in a layby a few yards from a busy Trunk Road or a tiny pull in where my wheels are barely off the tarmac.



I'm sure you meant that the POIs directly on your route weren't suitable ...

Unfortunately this could be read that many of our going on 6,000 POIs are unsuitable, being perhaps laybys or tiny pull-ins.

That simply isn't the case. As I'm sure you will acknowledge there are large numbers of rural car parks and other rural locations that are remote and peaceful.

Just setting the record straight, and no offence intended


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## jeanette (Sep 7, 2016)

I know it's each to their own whether in lay-bys pub car parks sites whichever ones no one should basically call them for doing it,we personally have not stayed in pub car park, as maingate says when you stay on a site that has a bar your not obliged to go in and maybe have a drink but we try to park away from busy roads and we also try to get lay-bys that are away from roads, this time we are thinking about staying in a car park as OH can't drive far and we will be setting off later than we usually do so we have an idea where we are staying for that one night! So really whether your preference is pub/lay-bys car parks/sites or a mixture of all of them I think there is enough arguments against us without us turning against ourselves maybe we should just let everyone choose where they stop for the night, they might have driven a long way or just fancy a pint and a meal,

Sorry rant over and put my two penny worth in!!


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## Canalsman (Sep 7, 2016)

One thing that never gets mentioned is how useful a pub can be as a source of local information. 

The UK is not well served when it comes to tourist information if you are away from the cities and tourist hot-spots. A pub landlord and the locals can be a wonderful font of knowledge ...

I know that BritStops features a significant number of pubs in its publication. I wonder if all of those hold suitable licences for overnight parking?


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## runnach (Sep 7, 2016)

POI Admin said:


> I wonder if all of those hold suitable licences for overnight parking?


 I think that question has been answered innocent ignorance of the law is no excuse was the term I used.

Is that not the same for lots of other offences too ? 

Channa


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## runnach (Sep 7, 2016)

alcam said:


> Has any pub landlord been done for this ?
> Seems to me to be similar to the drinking in Motorhomes/Gassing debates



Alcam you have ran pubs yourself as have I and still a current licence holder.  A couple of points 

I made it crystal clear posts ago the laws I am referring too relate to England and Wales you boys have your own set of rules.
As for the examples of public nuisance and Protecting children from harm both instances related to colleagues running other outlets. Both instances resulted in court.

When I had the White Horse at Gomersal there was enough space to run a WC meet, I spoke with the local license office and basically warned me what I could expect to happen.The reasons given close to a school, and a major junction disorder aside it could  be construed as causing a public nuisance with possible crime and disorder if guests continued to be rowdy after closing..the difference in their mind is normally rowdies disappear. The conversation didn't extend to a temporary events notices etc..

If some pubs want to wing it fine good luck, all I am guilty of here is trying to explain in a logical and rational manner why pubs may say no to people in car  parks overnight. getting back to the original post. It is not necessarily a case of publicans not wanting wild camper custom 

Channa


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## alcam (Sep 7, 2016)

channa said:


> Alcam you have ran pubs yourself as have I and still a current licence holder.  A couple of points
> 
> I made it crystal clear posts ago the laws I am referring too relate to England and Wales you boys have your own set of rules.
> As for the examples of public nuisance and Protecting children from harm both instances related to colleagues running other outlets. Both instances resulted in court.
> ...



Channa not saying your guilty of anything . I would say the local licencing authorities who actually dealt with the cases you have quoted in such a heavy handed manner should have a serious word with themselves . I did run pubs in England and fortunately never came across such draconian behaviour from the police or licencing authorities . I have always thought Scottish licencing boards were a lot worse .
I've no doubt you are correct in your quoting of the law I just don't think when me  and ma dug ask to stay at a pub that we'll be refused very often


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