# Pets



## jeanette (Feb 9, 2019)

For anyone who has a pet but only two travelling seats where does your pet sit/ lie in the car ours sits on the back seat and harnessed in safely, TIA


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## trevskoda (Feb 9, 2019)

The law is clear on this, if you carry a dog it must be behind a secure dog guard in the rear,it is forbidden to have loose or animals in the front where it may impede or distract the driver.
A box etc is same for cats also.


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## SCRUMPY BOY (Feb 9, 2019)

there's nothing worse than seeing a car going along with a dogs head sticking out of the window, its about time the powers that be started to enforce the law.
Mind you its nearly all horse and cart here in Hereford.


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## Wooie1958 (Feb 9, 2019)

Is kissing and cuddling the doggie whilst it`s sat on the passengers knee ok ?      Why do so many motorhomers do that          :scared:


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## Nabsim (Feb 9, 2019)

Ours lie on a bed on the floor between front seats or one on Caz’s knee. We don’t have rear seats and they rarely move until we are stopped and engine off.


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## Deleted member 35703 (Feb 9, 2019)

Nabsim said:


> Ours lie on a bed on the floor between front seats or one on Caz’s knee. We don’t have rear seats and they rarely move until we are stopped and engine off.



Ours in a pet carrier secured behind the drivers seat border terrier so not a large dog does make me wonder when you see them on the passengers knee what would happen in an accident


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## trevskoda (Feb 9, 2019)

Nabsim said:


> Ours lie on a bed on the floor between front seats or one on Caz’s knee. We don’t have rear seats and they rarely move until we are stopped and engine off.



Unless you have to brake early, dogs don't fly well
Lol


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## izwozral (Feb 9, 2019)

Wooie1958 said:


> *Is kissing and cuddling the doggie* whilst it`s sat on the passengers knee ok ?      Why do so many motorhomers do that          :scared:



Between the dog and the wife, the dog wins hands down!



Oh, I am going to be in so much trouble now.:scared:


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## jeanette (Feb 9, 2019)

izwozral said:


> Between the dog and the wife, the dog wins hands down!
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I am going to be in so much trouble now.:scared:




:lol-049:


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## Wooie1958 (Feb 10, 2019)

izwozral said:


> Between the dog and the wife, the dog wins hands down!
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh, I am going to be in so much trouble now*.:scared:




Nowt new there then           :lol-049:       :lol-049:


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## trevskoda (Feb 10, 2019)

Here are the regs


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## Martin P (Feb 10, 2019)




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## Deleted member 5816 (Feb 10, 2019)

That looks a death trap to me. A sudden stop or emergency breaking and you will have a pet with a broken neck or worse let the dog travel safely on the floor

Alf



Martin P said:


> View attachment 69719


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## Martin P (Feb 10, 2019)

No its fine


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## Deleted member 58274 (Feb 10, 2019)

*Jealous*



Wooie1958 said:


> Is kissing and cuddling the doggie whilst it`s sat on the passengers knee ok ?      Why do so many motorhomers do that          :scared:



Which one are you most jealous of Wooie....the dog, passenger or driver LOL !! Maja


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## Asterix (Feb 10, 2019)

I keep my mutt on the front seat,I just clip his collar onto the seatbelt,I used to always have him in a harness which I know is much safer but now he's figured out how to free himself it all became a bit pointless. I don't have a rear seat or anchor point in the back,it's only ever been a problem in Iberia,pulled twice and he was ordered into the back,the French police only stopped me so they could play with him!


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## REC (Feb 10, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Here are the regs



So a "suitable restraint" is allowed, not just a guard? We use a harness in the back seat and thought that was legally acceptable?


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## jeanette (Feb 10, 2019)

We don’t have an anchor point in the back and we just have the drivers seat and passengers seat no more anchor points not even a lap belt.


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## trevskoda (Feb 11, 2019)

jeanette said:


> We don’t have an anchor point in the back and we just have the drivers seat and passengers seat no more anchor points not even a lap belt.



All the law says is that it must be restrained,most  folk here use a guard in est cars or l/rovers,i have seen nutters with dogs hanging out windows in front seats but there taking a chance with there license & insurance should they have a acc.
All it takes is a simple eye hook bolted through the floor with a spreader plate under it,the type used on t/bars will be the job,cost little.


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## Millie Master (Feb 11, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> The law is clear on this, if you carry a dog it must be behind a secure dog guard in the rear,it is forbidden to have loose or animals in the front where it may impede or distract the driver.
> A box etc is same for cats also.



Are you sure about what you have written Trev.?

Although it is always advisable:- Rule 58 of the Highway Code deals with travelling with pets and states:

“When in a vehicle make sure dogs or other animals are suitably restrained so they cannot distract you while you are driving or injure you, or themselves, if you stop quickly. A seat belt harness, pet carrier, dog cage or dog guard are ways of restraining animals in cars.”

Although the Highway Code states this, is there actually a law covering this point, I don't think so?

Phil


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## trevskoda (Feb 11, 2019)

Millie Master said:


> Are you sure about what you have written Trev.?
> 
> Although it is always advisable:- Rule 58 of the Highway Code deals with travelling with pets and states:
> 
> ...


The police will pull you here for it if spotted.
Do try reading all of it as regards danger driving,thats how they enforce it.


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## jeanette (Feb 11, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> All the law says is that it must be restrained,most  folk here use a guard in est cars or l/rovers,i have seen nutters with dogs hanging out windows in front seats but there taking a chance with there license & insurance should they have a acc.
> All it takes is a simple eye hook bolted through the floor with a spreader plate under it,the type used on t/bars will be the job,cost little.



We have a harness for the car trev clipped into the seat belt but we only have the two front seats in the van,so we’re going to have to sort something out,we have a cage we can put her in and she’s comfortable inside it but we would like her to be out but at the same time safely restrained in the van,


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## trevskoda (Feb 11, 2019)

jeanette said:


> We have a harness for the car trev clipped into the seat belt but we only have the two front seats in the van,so we’re going to have to sort something out,we have a cage we can put her in and she’s comfortable inside it but we would like her to be out but at the same time safely restrained in the van,



Good idea,the bit that i always think about is the dog going out the wind shield or breaking someones neck in a crash,remember any loose items including spare wheels jacks, tools, s/pans, m/wave etc not bolted down is a missile.:danger:


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## Biggarmac (Feb 11, 2019)

My little dog sits on the front seat attached to the seatbelt.  If there is anyone sitting on the seat she sits on their knee attached to the seat belt they are using.


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 11, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Here are the regs



Suitably restrained is a bit different from your must be in a crate Trev.

We only have seat belts in the front but haven't travelled with Sparky in this van yet. As a minimum if we do not have something sorted he would sit on my lap with a harness secured to my seat belt. I wouldn't carry a dog without something to stop them hitting the windscreen/furniture/passengers etc. at 30mph+.


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## trevskoda (Feb 11, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Suitably restrained is a bit different from your must be in a crate Trev.
> 
> We only have seat belts in the front but haven't travelled with Sparky in this van yet. As a minimum if we do not have something sorted he would sit on my lap with a harness secured to my seat belt. I wouldn't carry a dog without something to stop them hitting the windscreen/furniture/passengers etc. at 30mph+.



I have a cat box for taking mine to the VET,now i hear a billy conolly song in my head.


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## jeanette (Feb 11, 2019)

We haven’t travelled with ours in this van and she’s slightly to big and heavy to sit on my knees and she’s not very comfortable even though  she doesn’t look very big or heavy


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## jeanette (Feb 11, 2019)

trev this is the front of our van and as you can see it’s only got two travelling seats


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## Drover (Feb 11, 2019)

I'm with others on this, 
There is no law in the UK stating dogs or pets must be restrained in a vehicle.
There is however laws in other eu countries stating they must be in cages or belts.


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## yorkslass (Feb 11, 2019)

I'm lucky. As soon as the engine starts mine goes behind the drivers seat and doesn't come out till the engine stops.


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## trevskoda (Feb 11, 2019)

hairydog said:


> My dog liked to travel standing up between the front seats, sniffing the air out of the dashboard vent and looking out through the windscreen. If he got bored of that, there was a padded rug between the seats that he could lie down on, and a cot mattress under the table he could go to bed on.
> 
> He never travelled sitting: only standing up or lying down. He never explained why.
> 
> He was "suitably restrained": he would not go anywhere in the way of the driver because he knew he wasn't allowed to.



So in the event of a crash what happens to fido.


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## jeanette (Feb 11, 2019)

yorkslass said:


> I'm lucky. As soon as the engine starts mine goes behind the drivers seat and doesn't come out till the engine stops.



We’re hoping ours is similar Sue because that’s what she does in the car she just lies down and sleeps until we stop! But for the van if we can’t find anything suitable she will have to lie in between the seats I think,because there is nowhere else for her to sit/sleep


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## shaunr68 (Feb 11, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> So in the event of a crash what happens to fido.



He hits the dash I expect Trev, same with my dog Eric and the same with me since I rarely wear a seatbelt unless I see plod around.  He's been to 33 countries and has always travelled untethered, either on the missus' lap or more recently on our lad's adventure, on his cushion on the passenger seat.  I drive the MH like an old woman and if we end up in a crash it will with any luck be a low velocity one!


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## Deleted member 5816 (Feb 11, 2019)

It amazes me that you dare to admit this on line it is so obvious you have no respect for other road uses, worse still any passengers or family that may travel with you. 


Alf



shaunr68 said:


> He hits the dash I expect Trev, same with my dog Eric and the same with me since I rarely wear a seatbelt unless I see plod around.  He's been to 33 countries and has always travelled untethered, either on the missus' lap or more recently on our lad's adventure, on his cushion on the passenger seat.  I drive the MH like an old woman and if we end up in a crash it will with any luck be a low velocity one!


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## shaunr68 (Feb 11, 2019)

Alf said:


> It amazes me that you dare to admit this on line it is so obvious you have no respect for other road uses, worse still any passengers or family that may travel with you.
> 
> 
> Alf



Be amazed Alf.  Life is full of risks.  I'm far more concerned about the risk of him being attacked by another dog while out walking than I am about him being hurt in an accident.  What exactly is the risk to passengers and family?


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## Deleted member 5816 (Feb 11, 2019)

Nothing to do with your dog the fact you say you don't wear a seat belt gives to me  away your attitude to your driving 

Alf



shaunr68 said:


> Be amazed Alf.  Life is full of risks.  I'm far more concerned about the risk of him being attacked by another dog while out walking than I am about him being hurt in an accident.  What exactly is the risk to passengers and family?


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## shaunr68 (Feb 12, 2019)

Thanks Hairydog, fair enough, it's a calculated risk and a miniscule one at that.  In line with your driving history above I've driven around 30,000 miles across the continent and I'd estimate a million miles over 33 years UK driving and have never had so much as a shunt "sufficient to even bruise a hamster".  I should clarify that I do wear a belt on the motorway or in heavy traffic but not while tootling down country lanes.  Life is full of risks and I consider this one to be small enough as to not be overly concerned about it.


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## trevskoda (Feb 12, 2019)

shaunr68 said:


> He hits the dash I expect Trev, same with my dog Eric and the same with me since I rarely wear a seatbelt unless I see plod around.  He's been to 33 countries and has always travelled untethered, either on the missus' lap or more recently on our lad's adventure, on his cushion on the passenger seat.  I drive the MH like an old woman and if we end up in a crash it will with any luck be a low velocity one!



I seen two cars hit each other at 40mph each,the driver went through windshield and then through the other car shield hitting the passenger in the face,not a prity sight,i do hope you reconsider wearing a belt,remember no insurance co will cover you if not,apart from the fact you are bonkers.


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## wildebus (Feb 12, 2019)

hairydog said:


> Sorry, but I think you are make my a huge mistake.
> 
> Yes, the chance of a serious crash is small, but the damage would be horrendous. Seatbelts are not much of a trouble - or should not be. After all, you are sitting in the seat. Why not do the belt up?


I don't really understand the idea of thinking "I'll put it on on the Motorway, but won't bother on country roads" :rolleyes2: 

the "Clunk Clink, Every Trip" films were  pretty good to get seat belts used by the dinosaurs of the road  (as opposed to the Knights of the road  ) 
Just because the Presenter turned out to be a total scumbag doesn't lessen the point made in the film
[video=youtube;XzcprRXkdpg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzcprRXkdpg]YouTube[/video]


Personally, when it comes to driving, I just don't feel comfortable without a seatbelt on.  Nothing to do with feeling unsafe, but it is such an automatic reflex after many decades of driving of just "get in car.  put on seatbelt" that driving without is just awkward.


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## shaunr68 (Feb 12, 2019)

Well fairy nuff fellas, I should have expected a lecture 

I do hope that none of you smoke, drink too much, have an unhealthy diet, ride a bike motorised or otherwise, or participate in dangerous sports


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## wildebus (Feb 12, 2019)

I guess it is a matter of calculated risks and rewards.

Not sure how not putting on a seatbelt improves your enjoyment of driving?


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## trevskoda (Feb 12, 2019)

shaunr68 said:


> Well fairy nuff fellas, I should have expected a lecture
> 
> I do hope that none of you smoke, drink too much, have an unhealthy diet, ride a bike motorised or otherwise, or participate in dangerous sports



I was going to say none of my motorbikes have seat belts or air bags,but then again most folk i know have always been brought of by half blind numties in cars.


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## wildebus (Feb 12, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> I was going to say none of my motorbikes have seat belts or air bags,but then again most folk i know have always been brought of by half blind numties in cars.


Last time I was brought off my motorbike was due to the numbtie that was holding the handlebars :dance:


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## shaunr68 (Feb 12, 2019)

wildebus said:


> I guess it is a matter of calculated risks and rewards.
> 
> Not sure how not putting on a seatbelt improves your enjoyment of driving?



It's laziness to be honest.  I'll take the rap on the knuckles like a man and I'm touched that you lot all clearly care so much so I'll endeavour to follow Mr Saville's advice more often in future


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## Cass (Feb 12, 2019)

I would advise you check your insurance policy as some have a clause for unrestrained pets and it may void your insurance if in an accident,


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## jeanette (Feb 12, 2019)

Cass said:


> I would advise you check your insurance policy as some have a clause for unrestrained pets and it may void your insurance if in an accident,



We would rather find a way to use her harness or something else to restrain her other than a cage but if she has to sit in between the seats we’ll have to see how she gets on,(don’t really want to do that) and we never thought about the insurance if she’s unrestrained


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 13, 2019)

Well we've just moved Percy II down to the local mill as we have tree surgeons coming today. Sparky came with us as it was only 300m down a country lane at 6:30am. We could see that between the front seats will be an ideal spot for him if we can rig up something to clip his harness to.

Our base vehicle is a 16 plate Peugeot Boxer so the gear shift is well out of the way on the dash & the handbrake is to the right of the driver's eat. How do we stand with the law & MOT regs if we were to attach a strap across from both seatbelt stalks & clip his harness onto that? Would we be better placed to try & attach it to both seat bases? I'm being a bit vague here as it was pitch dark & early & Phill had to get off to work so we didn't look at it in detail.


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## jeanette (Feb 13, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Well we've just moved Percy II down to the local mill as we have tree surgeons coming today. Sparky came with us as it was only 300m down a country lane at 6:30am. We could see that between the front seats will be an ideal spot for him if we can rig up something to clip his harness to.
> 
> Our base vehicle is a 16 plate Peugeot Boxer so the gear shift is well out of the way on the dash & the handbrake is to the right of the driver's eat. How do we stand with the law & MOT regs if we were to attach a strap across from both seatbelt stalks & clip his harness onto that? Would we be better placed to try & attach it to both seat bases? I'm being a bit vague here as it was pitch dark & early & Phill had to get off to work so we didn't look at it in detail.



Sharon we had thought about that and we still haven’t got round to looking at it in more detail,because to be honest that’s the only thing we could do for misty to be safe and harnessed. I would like to see if anyone can help with that!


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## trevskoda (Feb 13, 2019)

Remove left & right seat belt clip mounting bracket,then get a bit of steel drilled to also bolt there with a extra hole in it for the dog harness,make sure he cannot get to or under the pedals and all should be well.
Or if a seat base mounting leg has access then something round that will do fine.


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 13, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Remove left & right seatbelt clip mounting bracket,then get a bit of steel drilled to also bolt there with a extra hole in it for the dog harness,makesure he cannot get to or under the pedals and all should be well.
> Orif a seat base mounting leg has access then something round that will do fine.



Thanks Trev. I'll show this to him who drills things when he gets home. We need to be careful that anything we do won't affect the seatbelts for safety/MOT issues.
With a harness one he will be well away from the pedals & unusually this dog seems to prefer to be on the floor.
The seat moves forward & back & swivels so I don't think there would be anywhere to attach anything to the base.


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## REC (Feb 13, 2019)

Read this with interest, as one of the reasons we decided to have a double seat with belts fitted was that we wanted to have Chloe restrained. She could sit in the front ( having a swivel put on double seat so that we still have three seats in cab) but she does not seem to be comfortable there, and at 18kg she is heavy if she drapes herself over my legs or tries to sit on me!
We are also looking a leaving one of the floor restraint clips in situ so that she can be restrained sitting on the floor. She has a padded harness which allows movement and restrains her from centre back not neck. The only issue we find is that she swivels around "making a nest" when settling and sometimes gets hooked up on the strap! She has done this less lately so maybe she is learning??

I would argue that "suitably restrained " would be interpreted as bodily not emotional restraint since the main danger is flying weight in the event of an accident. Only need one accident and end up with injuries to animal and or  passengers which would be awful! As a child we used to travel (3 kids) unrestrained sitting on the back ledge in an MG midget, but wouldn't let a child do it now! More traffic, greater speeds, more knowledge!!


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## jeanette (Feb 13, 2019)

REC ours is restrained in the car with a body harness and not a one on the neck,


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## REC (Feb 13, 2019)

jeanette said:


> REC ours is restrained in the car with a body harness and not a one on the neck,


All proper harnesses are like that , but I have seen some dogs just clipped in to their collar which was why I mentioned it.
Ruth


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## jeanette (Feb 13, 2019)

REC said:


> All proper harnesses are like that , but I have seen some dogs just clipped in to their collar which was why I mentioned it.
> Ruth



I have also seen that and I wouldn’t do that because as you say it could have dire consequences,to say the least! And hopefully we’ll find something suitable for for the van


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## trevskoda (Feb 14, 2019)

hairydog said:


> I would (and do) argue that it is not as you assert. The suitable restraint is not to protect the animal (if it were, restraints on the market would need to improve that aspect, not worsen it, as they currently do).
> It is a matter of preventing the animal distracting or even impeding the driving. And a simple "sit" is enough for some dogs, whereas chains and cages are needed for others.
> You may have a different view, but the letter of the law does not say what is "suitable" or what the intent of the law is, so.my opinion holds as much or as little weight as yours does.



A simple sit wont stop it flying through the screen or braking you neck,remember at 30mph it will be same weight as a baby elephant.


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 14, 2019)

Travel harnesses are different from walking harnesses. You must use one that is designed to withstand the speed of an impact on the fastenings etc. A simple wlking harness will not suffice.

Clipped onto a collar is a very quick way to kill your dog in an accident, I'm sure no-one on here is stupid enough for that one.


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## trevskoda (Feb 14, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Travel harnesses are different from walking harnesses. You must use one that is designed to withstand the speed of an impact on the fastenings etc. A simple wlking harness will not suffice.
> 
> Clipped onto a collar is a very quick way to kill your dog in an accident, I'm sure no-one on here is stupid enough for that one.



Im not sure when some on here dont clip themselves in.


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## Nabsim (Feb 14, 2019)

Trev ours are usually on their bed on the floor between the front seats, most they can do is shunt forward maybe a foot, couldn’t go through windscreen unless vehicle flipped in which case we are all probably toast.

I may be wrong but I don’t think adding something to seat belt mounting points is valid, it could add forces that the mounting isn’t designed for. Your other ides of drilling and adding an eye is a better suggestion I think.

Just to add, while our van states seating capacity is 4 there are only two seat belts. Just throwing that out there as two would be unsecured on side sofas if we went to maximum seated. Yes I know that’s a different argument and decided by insurance but just adding a bit to th3 discussion.

I am happy to continue with ours asleep on the floor, if others are not then they must do whatever to make it right for them.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Feb 14, 2019)

This opens another can of worms does your insurance cover you carrying anyone without a seatbelt. Come any accident it's the views of the police or accident investigaters that will count not your interpretation of the law. 

Alf





Nabsim said:


> Trev ours are usually on their bed on the floor between the front seats, most they can do is shunt forward maybe a foot, couldn’t go through windscreen unless vehicle flipped in which case we are all probably toast.
> 
> I may be wrong but I don’t think adding something to seat belt mounting points is valid, it could add forces that the mounting isn’t designed for. Your other ides of drilling and adding an eye is a better suggestion I think.
> 
> ...


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## trevskoda (Feb 14, 2019)

Correct alf the carage of passengers with out belts is not allowed after a certain date,they are for sitting in when on a c/site.
Same goes for side facing seats.
At the end of the day its the crown prosicution which decides and not us load of old farts.


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## maingate (Feb 14, 2019)

The seatbelt regulations for motorhomes changed in 2007. Until then the rules allowed lap belts (2 point fixings) in sideways facing seats in the Hab area. Any model registered from 07 were not. My 56 reg Elddis 120 had the Lap belts, the 07 did not.


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## jeanette (Feb 15, 2019)

maingate we don’t even have lap belts in ours even though it says 4 berth!


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## trevskoda (Feb 15, 2019)

jeanette said:


> maingate we don’t even have lap belts in ours even though it says 4 berth!



Dont carry any one then ,simple.


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## maingate (Feb 15, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Dont carry any one then ,simple.



It is still legal to carry unbelted passengers if the vehicle was built before any seat belt Laws came into being.


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 15, 2019)

jeanette said:


> maingate we don’t even have lap belts in ours even though it says 4 berth!



Your 2 guests can only sleep in it, not travel in it.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Feb 15, 2019)

Mines a two berth but we have 4 seat belts 

Alf





jeanette said:


> maingate we don’t even have lap belts in ours even though it says 4 berth!


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## Jo001 (Feb 15, 2019)

We have a click-safe dog harness (for car travel) attached to a short strap secured between the seat belt stems. Hope this works  (edit - I mean the photo upload!)


'


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## Nabsim (Feb 15, 2019)

Ha ha, I said it was a different subject (unbelted side seats) as we have had it before. My point of mentioning was some vans can carry unbelted passengers which would do a lot more damage if things went wrong than the average dog.


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 15, 2019)

Jo001 said:


> We have a click-safe dog harness (for car travel) attached to a short strap secured between the seat belt stems. Hope this works  (edit - I mean the photo upload!)
> 
> View attachment 69780'View attachment 69780



That's exactly what I was thinking of.:banana:


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## jeanette (Feb 15, 2019)

Jo001 said:


> We have a click-safe dog harness (for car travel) attached to a short strap secured between the seat belt stems. Hope this works  (edit - I mean the photo upload!)
> 
> View attachment 69780'View attachment 69780



That’s exactly what we need so...whereabouts do you get them from, and she can just lie on the floor and we don’t have to use a cage!


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## Drover (Feb 15, 2019)

hairydog said:


> No, it is the law that decides. The law is clear, and not subject to the CPS interpreting it.
> 
> The applicable date of the EU Directive that requires all passenger seats to have belts is 20 October 2008.
> 
> To be quite honest, I don't remember if that is for vehicles made after that date, first registered after that date, or first used after that date. But that is the date!



I think it's a law for children that came in at 2008. Under 12 or 135cms must be in a correct seat for their height or age.
The eu law came in 2012 that you can only travel in vehicles made after this date in a seat with a forward or rear facing seatbelt designed for the seat.
These seats are noted in the vc5.so if the vc5 says 2 seats that is all that can travel regardless of the number of seats you have ..
I ain't arguing about it, just stating a fact.
I thought the thread was about pets not people , the seatbelt law for people has been done to death on loads of forums and individuals should choose themselves what to do.
There is no law in the UK for pet travel other than they should not interfere with the driver.


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## jeanette (Feb 15, 2019)

We use this harness with a seatbelt strap (can’t take a pic Malcolm has the car)! .


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## maingate (Feb 15, 2019)

chrisjones18 said:


> I think it's a law for children that came in at 2008. Under 12 or 135cms must be in a correct seat for their height or age.
> The eu law came in 2012 that you can only travel in vehicles made after this date in a seat with a forward or rear facing seatbelt designed for the seat.
> These seats are noted in the vc5.so if the vc5 says 2 seats that is all that can travel regardless of the number of seats you have ..
> I ain't arguing about it, just stating a fact.
> ...



There was a post on my Wifes Facebook group that the Law had changed last year regarding carrying animals in a vehicle.

I am not saying it was correct but if possible I will try to find it (it was a while ago).  am not a Facebook user myself but will do my best.


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## trevskoda (Feb 15, 2019)

chrisjones18 said:


> I think it's a law for children that came in at 2008. Under 12 or 135cms must be in a correct seat for their height or age.
> The eu law came in 2012 that you can only travel in vehicles made after this date in a seat with a forward or rear facing seatbelt designed for the seat.
> These seats are noted in the vc5.so if the vc5 says 2 seats that is all that can travel regardless of the number of seats you have ..
> I ain't arguing about it, just stating a fact.
> ...



Slightly incorrect,the 2012 bit was seats were ment to have a emblem stamped on them to show for convayence,i have had the lot out with boss at mot sation and ggoing through veh construction and use papers,now lets get to barking again.


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## trevskoda (Feb 15, 2019)

maingate said:


> There was a post on my Wifes Facebook group that the Law had changed last year regarding carrying animals in a vehicle.
> 
> I am not saying it was correct but if possible I will try to find it (it was a while ago).  am not a Facebook user myself but will do my best.



Face book market place is a handy tool to buy and sell on.


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## Drover (Feb 16, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Slightly incorrect,the 2012 bit was seats were ment to have a emblem stamped on them to show for convayence,i have had the lot out with boss at mot sation and ggoing through veh construction and use papers,now lets get to barking again.



I have the said law at home on a computer. If I was only there now. .
Look under the laws for motorcaravan and after a day or two trawling through them you should find it...there are thousands of the bloody things no wonder nothing gets put out correctly. .. 
If you mean the bosses at vosa I agree with you about their take on things....I have had many dealings with them in the past..
It only matters about vehicles after 2012 as that's when the seats got put on the vc5... some motorhome builders don't do things right when they register them and the vc5 might only get 2 or 3 seats listed as they forget to change the base vehicle.... 
They have now had around 6 years to get things right so they should be up to speed now.....


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## Drover (Feb 16, 2019)

hairydog said:


> It isn't as simple as that. To be quite honest I don't remember all the details, so I'd rather not give half the story, but fhe law is different when children are being carried.



It is that simple as the children get the law to themselves..... they must have a seat belt.. 
The only exemption is an emergency. .
If a old vehicle has no belts you can't take a child in it.


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## Jo001 (Feb 16, 2019)

jeanette said:


> That’s exactly what we need so...whereabouts do you get them from, and she can just lie on the floor and we don’t have to use a cage!



I think we got ours online from Sports Direct (the free mug they sent is the reason I remember it was from there, such is the power of marketing lol). The strap is attached to a carabiner, and we clip the carabiner on the seat belt stem. The other end is free, but has a loop, so a second carabiner goes through that, and clips on the other seat belt stem.

I think they are rock climbing gear so if not Sports Direct, somewhere outdoorsy might be able to help.


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 16, 2019)

jeanette said:


> We use this harness with a seatbelt strap (can’t take a pic Malcolm has the car)! View attachment 69785. View attachment 69786



Please ensure that your dog is strapped in using a travel harness, not a walking harness.


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## Drover (Feb 16, 2019)

hairydog said:


> No, it is not as simple as that.
> To quote directly from Child car seats: the law: When a child can travel without a car seat - GOV.UK
> 
> 
> ...


You missed this bit

"These rules only apply if your vehicle was originally made without seat belts."
This is in the .gov blurb, just the one line, 


I would like to think people would use seatbelts for children as they don't know different. Regardless of their age..


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## trevskoda (Feb 16, 2019)

Here is the full regs as from now.


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## jeanette (Feb 16, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Please ensure that your dog is strapped in using a travel harness, not a walking harness.



Sharon this is the travel harness we use for the car.


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## Drover (Feb 17, 2019)

hairydog said:


> No, I didn't miss that bit, and it is not on the page I linked to.
> Putting under 3s in a seat belt without a child seat is more dangerous than no belt at all. I did say it is complicated.


I'm not very good at linking things , if you carry on from the page you have linked you will find this ( I hope)


Seat belts: the law: If your vehicle doesn’t have seat belts - GOV.UK

I did say these things take some finding and government departments don't like to make things easy.
Like you say  complicated......


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 18, 2019)

jeanette said:


> Sharon this is the travel harness we use for the car. View attachment 69810 View attachment 69811



I am not an expert, but to me that looks like a standard walking harness, rather than a travel harness. The car harnesses tend to have a stronger more padded chest section.

We used to cycle the French canals & rivers with our last JRT Tilly in a basket on the back of Phill's bike. We soon settled on the best harness because on a few occasions she leapt our of the basket & dangled from her harness. Those little black plastic clips often sprang open, eventually we found one with locking clips.


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## r4dent (Feb 18, 2019)

Asterix said:


> I keep my mutt on the front seat,I just clip his collar onto the seatbelt



When capital punishment was still in force the speed of the victim at the point when he suddenly stopped was under 20 mph and resulted in the guy's neck breaking and death.

You have put a noose round your mutt's neck and in an emergency he will be travelling at (say) 30 mph relative to the seat belt - not recommended. 

Highway Code Rule 57 "When in a vehicle make sure dogs or other animals are suitably restrained so they cannot distract you while you are driving or injure you, or themselves, if you stop quickly. A seat belt harness, pet carrier, dog cage or dog guard are ways of restraining animals in cars."


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## jeanette (Feb 18, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> I am not an expert, but to me that looks like a standard walking harness, rather than a travel harness. The car harnesses tend to have a stronger more padded chest section.
> 
> We used to cycle the French canals & rivers with our last JRT Tilly in a basket on the back of Phill's bike. We soon settled on the best harness because on a few occasions she leapt our of the basket & dangled from her harness. Those little black plastic clips often sprang open, eventually we found one with locking clips.



To be honest Sharon the pics don’t do it justice as it is quite padded on the chest and that’s what it said on the label but having said that I will look at another one


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## Deleted member 11999 (Feb 18, 2019)

Have my own version of a dog guard. It’s an MDF barrier that slots down between the habitation area and back of the driver/passenger seats. She lies on the floor behind it and doesn’t shift until next time I stop. Managed OK for over 7 years now and I consider it meets the requirements.


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 19, 2019)

jeanette said:


> To be honest Sharon the pics don’t do it justice as it is quite padded on the chest and that’s what it said on the label but having said that I will look at another one



If it is labelled as a car harness I'm sure it will be fine. Some of those mesh looking ones are very flimsy & as you say it's hard to tell. Just watch out for those clips.


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## jeanette (Feb 19, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> If it is labelled as a car harness I'm sure it will be fine. Some of those mesh looking ones are very flimsy & as you say it's hard to tell. Just watch out for those clips.



I’ll certainly check the clips now you’ve mentioned it and if I see another one which is better padded I’ll get it,but as you say they look so flimsy but it is quite padded and it did say on the label,so later on it’s a trip to the pet shop!.haha


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## HappyCamper123 (Feb 20, 2019)

*Safe Travelling With A Dog Guard*



jeanette said:


> For anyone who has a pet but only two travelling seats where does your pet sit/ lie in the car ours sits on the back seat and harnessed in safely, TIA



For the past 3 years, my partner and I have travelled with our Staffordshire Bull Terrier Cross in the boot, accompanied by a Travall Guard. We've never had any issues with the guard over the past 3 years and it's really easy to take out if ever needed! We've added more of their products to our car in the last year also to accompany our adventures. We're headed over to the Lake District in a couple of weeks and we can't wait! Weathers starting to pick up now, finally


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## jeanette (Feb 20, 2019)

HappyCamper123 said:


> For the past 3 years, my partner and I have travelled with our Staffordshire Bull Terrier Cross in the boot, accompanied by a Travall Guard. We've never had any issues with the guard over the past 3 years and it's really easy to take out if ever needed! We've added more of their products to our car in the last year also to accompany our adventures. We're headed over to the Lake District in a couple of weeks and we can't wait! Weathers starting to pick up now, finally



I was wondering where does your dog stay in the van and have you got more than two travelling seats with belts? We have only the two travelling seats therefore two seatbelts


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 21, 2019)

I am thinking of getting one of these cargo straps to put between the 2 seat belt stalks. We already have a big junky swivel clip that could be threaded on & attached to Sparky's harness.

If only one of us was in the van with Sparky it would still work provided we remembered to clip the passenger seat belt up.

Opinions everyone?


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## jeanette (Feb 21, 2019)

Sharon have you seen the post from Jo001 (#79) I think they look good and at least she’ll still have her harness on


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 22, 2019)

jeanette said:


> Sharon have you seen the post from Jo001 (#79) I think they look good and at least she’ll still have her harness on



Hi Jeanette, that's the sort of thing I mean but using one cargo strap, no carabiniers, to make it simpler & stronger, with a swivel clip in the middle that will attach to the ring on the back of Sparky's harness.


Click to see larger version, schematic not to scale.:rolleyes2:

Easy to take off before an MOT too!


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## Jo001 (Feb 22, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Hi Jeanette, that's the sort of thing I mean but using one cargo strap, no carabiniers, to make it simpler & stronger, with a swivel clip in the middle that will attach to the ring on the back of Sparky's harness.
> 
> View attachment 69907
> Click to see larger version, schematic not to scale.:rolleyes2:
> ...



I should add, we leave enough slack so he can reach his water bowl (non spill, one of these Dog bowl - Road Refresher - the non-spill pet travel bowl ) but also check that in an emergency stop there isn't enough slack that he can make contact with the front.

If you could rig up something protective behind the seats, that would help too. Some years ago we were in a head on collision - a young woman driving her boyfriend's big BMW north towards us on the bridge in Coldstream went into a spin. We were definitely under 30, having just come out of the bend before the bridge. God knows what she was doing but she spun, hit us, ricocheted off and still knocked the top row of blocks off the bridge parapet. Our van was a write-off. The wreckage in the back was incredible - it was a Swift Sundance so habitation door immediately behind the passenger seat and fridge just behind that - the fridge broke through the cabinet and was resting against the back of the passenger seat. EVERYTHING in all the cupboards had broken out and gathered at the front. Fortunately this was pre-dog days but if something had flown forward and hit him, it could have been the end of him. Anyone passing through Coldstream, have a look for the new blocks on the bridge - our insurance bought these (yep, she wasn't insured).

As an interesting addition to the story, about 16 months later we were in France and met our old van. A coach builder had bought the write off and fixed it up, sold it to family from Ireland. So it still managed to get a few miles done!


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 22, 2019)

Jo001 said:


> I should add, we leave enough slack so he can reach his water bowl (non spill, one of these Dog bowl - Road Refresher - the non-spill pet travel bowl ) but also check that in an emergency stop there isn't enough slack that he can make contact with the front.
> 
> If you could rig up something protective behind the seats, that would help too. Some years ago we were in a head on collision - a young woman driving her boyfriend's big BMW north towards us on the bridge in Coldstream went into a spin. We were definitely under 30, having just come out of the bend before the bridge. God knows what she was doing but she spun, hit us, ricocheted off and still knocked the top row of blocks off the bridge parapet. Our van was a write-off. The wreckage in the back was incredible - it was a Swift Sundance so habitation door immediately behind the passenger seat and fridge just behind that - the fridge broke through the cabinet and was resting against the back of the passenger seat. EVERYTHING in all the cupboards had broken out and gathered at the front. Fortunately this was pre-dog days but if something had flown forward and hit him, it could have been the end of him. Anyone passing through Coldstream, have a look for the new blocks on the bridge - our insurance bought these (yep, she wasn't insured).
> 
> As an interesting addition to the story, about 16 months later we were in France and met our old van. A coach builder had bought the write off and fixed it up, sold it to family from Ireland. So it still managed to get a few miles done!



Yes, must think about a panel behind the dog to protect him.
We have a couple of the no spill dog bowls. I bought one years ago, then they stopped making those & only the more expensive ones available like your link.
A couple of months ago Dogs Trust openend a shop in Abergavenny & they sell the old design no-spill bowls so Sparky has lots now.


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## jeanette (Feb 22, 2019)

Will have to check out the dogs trust for the bowls Sharon and Jo001 I have noticed the new blocks on that bridge,love Coldstream often go to the museum there we also have a caravan at Berwick-upon-Tweed but we also go to Eyemouth lovely little cafe in Eyemouth and lovely couple that own it!


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## jeanette (Feb 23, 2019)

Sharon have you got a photo of Sparky’s harness


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## Sharon the Cat (Feb 23, 2019)

jeanette said:


> Sharon have you got a photo of Sparky’s harness



Here you go. I can't find one like this online. I bought it a few years ago from my trade supplier. 


I searched Dogs Trust for the bowls but they don't sell them on line just in the shops. You can't miss them, bright yellow!


However, I did find a car harness on their site.


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## jeanette (Feb 23, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Here you go. I can't find one like this online. I bought it a few years ago from my trade supplier.
> View attachment 69923View attachment 69922
> 
> I searched Dogs Trust for the bowls but they don't sell them on line just in the shops. You can't miss them, bright yellow!
> ...



Thank you I Will definitely look for another harness I think and I’m sure we have a dogs trust near me


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## Sharon the Cat (Mar 11, 2019)

Sparky at the weekend. Very happy with his harness clipped onto a cargo strap between the 2 seatbelt stalks.


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## jeanette (Mar 11, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Sparky at the weekend. Very happy with his harness clipped onto a cargo strap between the 2 seatbelt stalks.
> View attachment 70128




Thank you Sharon we will try that it looks really secure Misty will be happy (I hope)..lol I’ve noticed he’s in his bed does it not slip around?


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## Sharon the Cat (Mar 11, 2019)

jeanette said:


> Thank you Sharon we will try that it looks really secure Misty will be happy (I hope)..lol I’ve noticed he’s in his bed does it not slip around?




The bed was well jammed in between the seats. In fact we are going to get a smaller one. It didn't move at all, it is on carpet there.


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## jeanette (Mar 11, 2019)

Sharon the Cat said:


> The bed was well jammed in between the seats. In fact we are going to get a smaller one. It didn't move at all, it is on carpet there.




We were thinking about getting a different bed for Misty but looking at sparky’s bed and it not moving I think we’ll keep the one she’s got.


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