# Quiet generator  how much



## dependencies (Aug 25, 2010)

My cheapo geny' is a bit bulky and noisy, and won't widen my exciting circle of camping buddies by disturbing them.

Power-wise I was mainly thinking something able to charge leisure battery, from which I can run minimal light/TV

(gas for all else)


answers on a postcard/stuck down envelope


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## vwalan (Aug 25, 2010)

how about a solar panel .hee hee. i can supply you with one for 165quid. 80wt brand new bp. others may be available . they have never been so cheap as they are now. know someone bringing in pallet loads . you get it from him .i just bought 4 but only need 3 after change of plan. much better than genny. even so called quiet ones are intrusive. i use a big diesel for to work tools and a welder but only in emergency ocasional repair use. cheers alan.


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## dependencies (Aug 25, 2010)

Not writing off the idea, but I have no experience, and don't personally know anyone that has,
educate me,
Whats the output on a midly sunny day and how would that compare to  this mythical quiet suitcase whispering away, in terms of topping up LR

also, how would I link it, would it be easy to do


genuinely interested


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## Canalsman (Aug 25, 2010)

I had two solar panels on my narrow boat that were fantastic for keeping the domestic batteries topped up.

I used to get 8 or 9 amps charge rate from them in sunshine.

They were sizeable panels, but would fit comfortably on top of a motorhome.

The benefits are zero maintenance and, of course, total silence 

I can't recommend solar panels highly enough, but be prepared to spend sufficient to get quality panels.

Mine were made by Siemens, and had a 15 year guarantee, and were to telecoms company specifications.

I'm sure others will provide you with specific advice, but in the meantime have a search for other threads on this topic. I know it's been discussed before.


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## dependencies (Aug 25, 2010)

Yes, size I was coming to that, what sort of dimensions are these things please


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## Mastodon (Aug 25, 2010)

To get the best from solar you'll need loads of battery capacity. Could also look at fuel cells - hugely expensive but silent generators.


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## dependencies (Aug 25, 2010)

Canalsman,
I just tried a search on the subject but find (apparently) i'm not allowed to view the topics,
can you outline roughly what you can power from your panels please



Thanks

richard


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## vwalan (Aug 25, 2010)

hi .80watt panel by bp. 48ins x 21 innches .weight about 8 kg. get about 5 amp at midday on sunny days . i use 3 on my truck to power a 240v fridge through an inverter . it works quite happy till we get a week of rain and clouds. i have up to 700 amp of battery power . .i bought a further 3 pan els to also go on the roof. that is abit excessive but i do full time in winter abroad and power washing machines etc never using hook up or going on sites. a genny does work but i have yet to see/ hear a quiet one that is acceptable to me. i sometimes camp with friends that use them but they are a nuisance and i soon move. i have had solar for 10yr and find it great. when at home i power fridge and freezer in my house through the inverter in the truck ,use an extension lead to the house, free then (well almost ,i had to buy the gear.).of course in winter in uk or during bad weather its all restricted . keep searching and asking questions ,its the only way.you could try google.


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## Canalsman (Aug 25, 2010)

Mastodon said:


> To get the best from solar you'll need loads of battery capacity.



I don't think that's necessarily true.

As I see it, it works like this.

The amount of battery capacity you need depends on how much power you intend to draw, and the output power of the panels.

If you match the charging ability to more or less to equate to what you intend to draw from the batteries, that's a good starting point.

The batteries in effect become a reservoir.


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## dependencies (Aug 26, 2010)

Interesting to ponder what I'd need.
Would somone show me how to calculate this;
Run small portable TV for a couple of hours
(Possibly) with one small interior light.

Actually I'm surprised its viable running an appliance like. Fridge from panels,
They seem to have improved in leaps & bounds since glanced at them a few years back.

I would probably up' capacity
 but would involve some remodeling in order to do,
And there's only room for one other battery.

What output panel would be apprpriate
Bigger the better?

Physically I have an area the size of a 'luton van'
Available so tht at least is OK


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## vwalan (Aug 26, 2010)

hi. if you have a vehicle that will allow the panels to sit nicely on roof good, its better to be able to tilt them to face the sun but its not easy or convieniant. i use a 2kw inverter to power the fridge. as i said i also have a small washing machine. my mate uses one of the blue twintubs you see on towsure site . he bought it from th 12v shop when here in cornwall its 240v and its like magic. i think if i was you i would actually fit 2 80wt panels flat on the roof. have a regulator and 2 x100amp batteries that should cover the nec. of course it would be nice to know the imput wattage required for the telly. . some are not very much some quite greedy. it may be also possible for you to use a live feed from your engine battery to charge while on the move. i used to do this but now my truck is 24v its further complicated . i earthed my liesure battery,s and ran a heavy cable from engine bat. to positive of liesure bats. having a big red plastic cut out switch i could control myself. ie. start engine turn wsitch. when stopped turn power off from eng .bat. cheap but works. ask what you like i,m sure enough of us here can help you. cheers alan.


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## dependencies (Aug 26, 2010)

I certainly have room for Two panels of the size mentioned, although they would need to mounted just about flat. For safety as I was hoping to make them a permanent fixture.

There's room for another battery to so that's still oK.

And 'on the move' I'd been wondering how best to couple the camper to the cars charging system,
Although for the paltry 50 quid or something,
I can get indispension to fit a grey socket to do it in the approved way.

That's not to say yours is wrong, but I suspect buying a pair of leads,
Socket and plug + the effort involved on my part.
On this occasion handing over a debit card might be easier.

That said you may see me add you as mates over the weekend so I can more easilly access/pester for information






(Sorry bout' that)


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## defitzi (Aug 26, 2010)

vwalan said:


> hi .80watt panel by bp. 48ins x 21 innches .weight about 8 kg. get about 5 amp at midday on sunny days . i use 3 on my truck to power a 240v fridge through an inverter . it works quite happy till we get a week of rain and clouds. i have up to 700 amp of battery power . .i bought a further 3 pan els to also go on the roof. that is abit excessive but i do full time in winter abroad and power washing machines etc never using hook up or going on sites. a genny does work but i have yet to see/ hear a quiet one that is acceptable to me. i sometimes camp with friends that use them but they are a nuisance and i soon move. i have had solar for 10yr and find it great. when at home i power fridge and freezer in my house through the inverter in the truck ,use an extension lead to the house, free then (well almost ,i had to buy the gear.).of course in winter in uk or during bad weather its all restricted . keep searching and asking questions ,its the only way.you could try google.


covers 2 pumps and one or 2 low wattr bulbs via

 now dat's what I call useful info....I use one circa 86 watt super for similar  siuze amp hr  battery. usage is mainly 1.2  low watt bulbs thru 150w inverter. same sp4ecs for Waeco small compessor )self-adjusting).works well even on dyll days. Waeco proclaims itself to be 39 WATTS!


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## Mastodon (Aug 26, 2010)

Canalsman said:


> I don't think that's necessarily true.
> 
> As I see it, it works like this.
> 
> ...



This is true. Assuming that your panels are working at peak efficiency (clear sky, panels facing the sun) and you've done all the calculations correctly... and of course you can't have 1 amp for 100 hrs from a 100 amp/hr battery. ..


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## Kontiki (Aug 27, 2010)

One point people seem to disregard when considering the cost in buying a generator is the ongoing cost of fuel, once you include this then solar panels seem more cost effective. For years I considered getting one on the vans I had, got one of the 13 watt portable ones from Maplins but found it not much use. At the best it would just about get the max 1 amp but you had to keep moving it to face the sun. 
On our current van was thinking about getting one fitted after we got the van, by mistake the dealer fitted one  think it's about 85 watt, so got it for free . After seeing how it performs wouldn't hesitate in having one or even two fitted on another van. It performs well & even works when it's cloudy or raining. Most I've seen on the gauge on a sunny day is 5.5 amps.
As to what size you need & the battery capacity it is a very personal thing. It's all down to what power you use. Halogen spot lights can consume a lot so switch to LED's, charge things such as phones, laptops etc. in the daytime when your panel is producing most. We watch TV through freeview or a suitcase satellite dish but also have a freeview box with a hard disk to watch stuff we recorded. Often though we don't bother too much with TV unless there is something we want to watch. 

Other point *QUIET* generator  unless you spend a fortune there isn't one. Number of times I've been parked by somebody with a quiet generator (even expensive ones) & they are annoying. Often the people using them are unaware, probably because they are running something that covers over the background noise of their genny.


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## dependencies (Aug 27, 2010)

Quite agree on the noise issue but still unconvinced on power needs.
Although I'm not planning on running more than a small TV with a single interior light for company.
I may like to use my laptop and that (I know) won't hold a charge,

However the general concensus here is seemingly luddite, so generators at any cost are a no no.
What I plan to do now is
Fit the grey plug so I can benefit from an already installed charging system,
Buy another leisure battery.
Then look at prices for a couple of 80W panels over the winter.
Two questions though.
Do LB's need to be same capacity alongside on another in order to charge/discharge correctly connected in parrallel,
And when I hook up a panel system,
How is damage prevented during 'normal' home charge or site hook-up.

(Or do I simply isolate unplug it)


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## vwalan (Aug 27, 2010)

hi, bit lost here as grey plug is for caravans . are you in a camper or towing a van. .there is much debate about batteries for leisure use i use wet truck batteries , of various sizes , from 200amp hour and 100aph. run them positive to pos neg to neg . leave them connected just about all time yto solar. to charge from eng bat, run a cable to the first leisure bat from the pos of eng bat to pos of leisure . have a earth cable from one of leisure bats to earth.you could then control the charge or isolate with a big red switch. you must not forget. my truck is 24v so i use a 24 to 12v chargesystem . expensive perhaps but only way i know. i never use ehu. never use sites and free/wild camp all winter from nov to may. in spain ,portugal and maroc. suffer sometimes if not in maroc as its not always that sunny. i turn the fridge off at night then. (it is 110watt 240v).i do have ehu facility to one plug socket . could be used to plug in a charger if needed but as i never have ehu waste of time. during the summer i just about always have full leisure bats unless as this summer its not so good . you will find that most solar panels over 50wt have diodes to to stop damage. but you can put another big red switch in line to protect or usefull for working on system. fuses etc to protect etc. i personally dont like the zig type units and having worked in the camper ind, find them all of poor quality and expensive. simple switches and a brain work much better. cheers alan.


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## dependencies (Aug 27, 2010)

My bad, I should have made it a bit clearer,
I have a nissan navara with a demountable camper I hook on.
So it has both sets of plugs fitted.
This far I've only mostly used sites,
So their EHU runs what I need,
Next year I'd (like) to visit the highlands and in the interest of keeping my options open, I'm exploring the power situation.

There is a zig under the sink and I'm hoping its as well made as the RV
But was unsure where an outside power source might lintegrate.

Presumably when suns out the panels are switched/plugged onto LB,
And removed at dusk

Cheers

Richard


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## vwalan (Aug 27, 2010)

hi ,you can get me on 07971962361. i used to have a couple of suntrekker demounts so we can talk the same language. cheers alan.


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## coolasluck (Aug 27, 2010)

Solar Panels are great when i full time they will be the first on our list of mods,however dont be put off by the green brigade,an expensive generator will also be my choice.I suppose it just depends on how much leccy you would be using at the moment we use our van for weekenders and a week or twos holiday at a time,dont miss the telly to be honest and we dont have either a genny or solar panels.


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## dependencies (Aug 27, 2010)

Right Alan my mistake, one of these NSR or Nordstar type RV's


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## vwalan (Aug 27, 2010)

nice one. mine were old suntrekkers made in aluminium .but the new ones are f,glass. quite like those like yours good insulation. very common on landrovers . better get your bags packed and join us in maroc this winter. make it work hard for its living. there was a good write up about your demount a while ago with a visit to the factory . think it was in land rover owners mag. cheers alan.


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## dependencies (Aug 27, 2010)

From what I've learnt since buying one,
 is they appear to be marketed. As NSL or (Nordstar in Germany)
By a company called Karroser of Sweden.

Very well insulated though, supposedly down to -30 or something.

Due to the use of space though as I said, there's little room for further additional equipment
(Aside from drying  SKI's,

 which have their own large radiator in the WC.

Not a feature of much use in Maroc, although thanks for kind offer Alan


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## vwalan (Aug 27, 2010)

big snow scenes in maroc . they hold world championship do,s there . very deep snow there two winters ago came right down to the road and skies and toboggans were for hire. the atlas is famous for skiing. you need to do some homework. you can surf before breakfast .ski at dinner and ride in the desert for tea. all in same day. up near azrou there is a place with snow just about all year. we had to turn round up dades gorge the other year as it was too deep to carry on. we actually drov above the snowline at one place it was incredible. we also got altitude sickness. well over 3,000mtr high. you have a perfect vehicle for maroc. shame you have wine storage shortage though. ha ha. cheers have fun we do. alan.


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## dependencies (Aug 28, 2010)

Alan,
when selecting a regulator, what do I need to look for

I see an amperage listed, together with the voltage 12/24

is their any other feature I should look out for


richard


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## vwalan (Aug 28, 2010)

hi . some will handle 12v or 24 v the other is amps to look for .based on an 80wt is about 5amp . but better to leave a good reserve then you can add more. mine is meant to be 30amp reg. but i only put 3 panels through it. when i put the other 3 on the roof i will start another system. with its own reg. then if anything goes wrong i hope i can use one or other.


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## dependencies (Aug 28, 2010)

An example i've seen so far

10A/12V Solar Charge Controller (Regulator) on eBay (end time 01-Sep-10 20:06:35 BST)


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## vwalan (Aug 28, 2010)

that should handle two x80wt panels . thats a good price as well . like every thing dont know the quality. but then if it was 50 quid the quality may not be better. i have been using cheap maroc regs but they do get warm . usually they last a couple of years so i try to always have a spare. cheers alan.


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## Randonneur (Aug 28, 2010)

Hi all, just thought I'd add my two bob's worth regarding solar panels.

We have a 55 watt panel on the overcab, ( came with it when we bought it so that's what we're using ), through an 8 amp Steco regulator feeding 2 x 110 amp leisure batteries. Our leisure batteries also charge off the engine via relay when it's running and 240 volts when we're on EHU. 

Last weekend we did three nights at Huttoft car terrace with our Avtex 12 volt tv running all day, ( the missus likes her daytime tv when we're on holiday  ), and without running the van engine, just using the solar panel, we found we had plenty of power for our needs. I felt that if we had wanted to stay longer without running the van engine we could have easily done so.

For this winter I'm looking at putting in a system to charge the van battery off the solar panel while it's stood for long periods, all ideas as to the best way to achieve this will be welcome please. 

We have found our solar panel to be well worth the money ( well, it would be if we'd had to pay for it!!! ), and no noisy genny to worry about.


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## dependencies (Aug 28, 2010)

It certainly  seem the way forward, the generator idea is off the menu now anyway.

and I'm a little more clued-up than I was last week, I want ideally to keep the roof access to a minimum so they would need mounting permanently,  Alan offered me some helpful advice on that,

I'm loathe to drill holes in campers body,
 but I suppose one of those threaded gland things would be long enough although ideally I suppose it wants to be concealed beneath a panel in the roof itself 
so the next thing is looking the path a cable might take and remain out of sight


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## vwalan (Aug 28, 2010)

hi you can link the batteries . there could be a bit of discrepancy because of age condition of batteries but it will help. again use a big red switch in line to control manually. if both engine and leisure batteries are earthed its only one thickish cable to route through. someone may come up with an easier way because of your van system in place but i try to work simple . hope i got it right. cheers alan.


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## Canalsman (Aug 28, 2010)

Randonneur said:


> For this winter I'm looking at putting in a system to charge the van battery off the solar panel while it's stood for long periods, all ideas as to the best way to achieve this will be welcome please.



Why not take the simple approach of placing a solar panel inside the vehicle propped up on the dashboard, and connected via the cigarette lighter?

This is what I use to just trickle charge the van battery.

This presumes of course that the van battery is not being used whilst stationary for any domestic supllies ...


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## Canalsman (Aug 28, 2010)

dependencies said:


> and I'm a little more clued-up than I was last week, I want ideally to keep the roof access to a minimum so they would need mounting permanently



Do you have roof bars?

They could be used for panel mounting ...

For the cable run, I wouldn't take it through the roof. Rather route it down the rear of the vehicle at the corner, then back up through the floor.

Incidentally, the cable needs to be fairly substantial to avoid voltage drop caused by excessive resistance.


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## dependencies (Aug 29, 2010)

Actually it does have an arrangement of bars (with runners glued to roof)







Certainly I could bolt to that, but a cable of say 'Biro' diameter would stick out like a sore thumb, 
so that's out.

Have to think up something else for routing it.

As you say in terms of  voltage drop' the shortest route is prefferable  
and there are benefits to using floor, as access
 as there's already enough pipes and cables there anyway


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## vwalan (Aug 29, 2010)

hi two panels on roof front . cable through side usiong a gland nut. reg high on wall inside twin cable running down inside wall to bateries plastic duct or a channeled strip of wood covering cable job done . simple easy cost minimal. more than enough power and plenty left for lifes little extra,s trouble with a portable panel is storage .breakage etc. and then you do have to face the right way. on roof not the best advantage point but its fixed forget and takes up no room. may be fit a small spoiler in front to deflect branches. 
cheers alan.


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## dependencies (Aug 29, 2010)

What about this,
I wanted to add a Fiamma roll out awning to N/S, so perhaps I could conceal the cabling on the outside, 
which would make it enter inside an overhead locker above the sink area
so the regulator could be mounted out of sight in there as well,
just its cabling on down to the battery
(in floor locker at base of headboard below central table)


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## vwalan (Aug 29, 2010)

i always think its better to have the reg on view then you can monitor what is happening. as a matter of comment i dont find roll out awningvery usefull . theydont like the rain . put alot of stress to side walls and if wild camping take abit of the stealth aspect away if out. but its your van your choice. i like sitting in the sun . cheers alan.


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## Randonneur (Aug 29, 2010)

Canalsman said:


> Why not take the simple approach of placing a solar panel inside the vehicle propped up on the dashboard, and connected via the cigarette lighter?
> 
> This is what I use to just trickle charge the van battery.
> 
> This presumes of course that the van battery is not being used whilst stationary for any domestic supllies ...



Hi Canalsman,

The van battery is only used for engine starting. I did'nt think those cig lighter panels were much good, I've heard that they can overheat the vehicle wiring causing fires if you're not careful, especially on older vehicles like ours.

I've heard about these so called battery to battery smart chargers, I may look into those, does anyone have any experience of using these??


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## Canalsman (Aug 29, 2010)

Randonneur said:


> Hi Canalsman,
> 
> The van battery is only used for engine starting. I did'nt think those cig lighter panels were much good, I've heard that they can overheat the vehicle wiring causing fires if you're not careful, especially on older vehicles like ours.
> 
> I've heard about these so called battery to battery smart chargers, I may look into those, does anyone have any experience of using these??



The current is low - hence the trickle charging reference - so there is no chance of overheating the wiring.

We're talking 0.5 amps or thereabouts ...

The other advantage is that because it's a trickle charge, you don't need any form of regulator.

I have successfully used this approach both on my narrow boat that I used to own, and on the 'van.

Make sure that the panel produces at least 0.5 amps (500 milliamps) in full sun.


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## caspar (Aug 30, 2010)

Much easier that trying to explain it is to suggest putting solar panels (or solar panel calculator) into Google. It explains all the pros and cons. Just looked into in massive detail myself, but given the age of my motorhome and the cost of running my generator I just couldn't justify the outlay. I know the green argument and agree with it, but for me at the end of the day it has to be viable economically. 

I have a generator that cost just short of £1000. It is very quiet and when wild camping, if you buy or make up a decent length power lead you can nearly always position it where nobody can hear it. Even when it's raining and under the back of our motorhome we barely hear it once the TV is on at normal volume. We use ours just as you've said you'd use yours - it runs TV and charges phones, laptop etc and runs the lights (well one halogen light to be exact!)....

For the same money I could have bought 3 or 4 DECENT solar panels which would not have been sufficient during winter months to do what I wanted them to. The most important thing to remember is they only produce a fraction of what they claim unless exposed directly to sunlight at exactly the right angle all day long on a summer day. The websites explain this quite clearly and many give you a calculator to let you work out what you'd need. One gallon of petrol has just run my generator for three to four hours a day for a whole month! It sips petrol!

Best of luck with your choosing.


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## dependencies (Aug 30, 2010)

Certainly I'm under no illusion as to the capabilitiy of solar devices.

From our point of view wild camping is something for the future
campsites without EHU are more a concern, which then raises security. 
and any generator would need locking to something these days.


A couple of panels topping up battery though might in-conjunction with grey plug (from car) offer the certainty of some light/power.

Been reading a lot from these Americans...
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/search.php?searchid=3443250

they discuss their generators, but have varying degrees of success with noise.

regards richard


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## caspar (Aug 30, 2010)

Generators can be muffled in various ways, but to be honest we've never had a problem with the noise from ours - it's amazing how quiet it is! We always make a point of speaking to our neighbours and saying if they hear it come and tell us to turn it off, not once has anyone even said they've heard it.


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## skypilote (Sep 4, 2010)

*Solar panels*



vwalan said:


> how about a solar panel .hee hee. i can supply you with one for 165quid. 80wt brand new bp. others may be available . they have never been so cheap as they are now. know someone bringing in pallet loads . you get it from him .i just bought 4 but only need 3 after change of plan. much better than genny. even so called quiet ones are intrusive. i use a big diesel for to work tools and a welder but only in emergency ocasional repair use. cheers alan.



Hi/ 80watt Solar panels for £165 sounds like a bargain to me, are there any more going for grabs , if so do you ever come any where near West Sussex or are you going to Shepton Mallet next week?


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## vwalan (Sep 4, 2010)

hi.the one i had spare as now been sold but i,m sure more can be available . ideally in lots of at least 4or5 .i found a chap thats bringing in pallet loads he normally sells commercially but if they are picked up from him he said thats the bottom line. i offered to buy more at the time but the price was not negotiable, if we can get a few to buy i,m sure we can get a few. at that price its the cheapest i,ve seen for a while. better than maroc these days. they come with bp garantee and a number on panel ,box and paper work. all brand new. cheers alan. 
ps, i make nothing just take you to him. thought i could help a few wild campers get a good deal.


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## Bernard Jones (Sep 4, 2010)

Just been at the Blackpool lights switch on, and one of the displays had a huge genny running, rated at 110 kilowatts.  But it was quieter than some of these little 2 kilowatt jobbies.


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## Powertrain (Sep 4, 2010)

our second hand 'van came with a solar panel fitted and it has kept our habitation battery charged pretty much year round. We only use interior lights and use gas for the fridge
Diesel generators seem to me to be the complete antithesis of what wild camping is about and we don't have the problem of using a TV since the idea of going to wild parts of the world is to get away from TVs and their addicts!


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## Nolly (Sep 4, 2010)

vwalan said:


> how about a solar panel .hee hee. i can supply you with one for 165quid. 80wt brand new bp. others may be available . they have never been so cheap as they are now. know someone bringing in pallet loads . you get it from him .i just bought 4 but only need 3 after change of plan. much better than genny. even so called quiet ones are intrusive. i use a big diesel for to work tools and a welder but only in emergency ocasional repair use. cheers alan.



Hi Vwalan
The law of averages say that you must sell that spare panel soon.
Would rather park up next to someone like you than the owner of even the quietest of gennies.
Regards Nolly.


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## vwalan (Sep 4, 2010)

hi, nolly .yes it went quick .sold to a wilder that lives here in cornwall. as we spend along time in the camper i think adequate solar is a real must. have friends with the so called quiet hondas but i find them irritating. after a couple of days its time to say see you soon and drift off to somewhere with no gennies. if power is needed for a welding job or a real emergency thats ok but drone every day is grrrr. have lots fun .we do .cheers alan.


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## Nolly (Sep 4, 2010)

vwalan said:


> . have friends with the so called quiet hondas but i find them irritating. after a couple of days its time to say see you soon and drift off to somewhere with no gennies. if power is needed for a welding job or a real emergency thats ok but drone every day is grrrr. have lots fun .we do .cheers alan.


 
Our first night back in France we found ourselves parked up close by one of these so called quiet Genni's. Come 10 at night and having put up with it for nearly 3hrs I decided enough was enough and "politely" asked the owner to shut it down.
We don't have much demand on leccy so we find our free standing 40 watts adequate. We have another 40 watts waiting to be fitted if we ever get round to it. No it's not for sale.
Regards Nolly.


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## Nolly (Sep 5, 2010)

It's a pity but everyone isn't as considerate as you *****. And I can understand given the space carrying one as a backup for emergencies. 
During the winter there are lots of motorhomes down south who run them for around an hour in the early evening, even that's tolerable. But to listen to them droning away hour after hour on an otherwise peaceful evening really gets me mad, Especially after you youself have taken the trouble to look for a quieter alternative.

Regards Nolly.


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