# To tow or not to tow?



## Julieliz (Jul 23, 2016)

Hello,
We are trying to do some research about how people get around once they are parked up at their destination. Our motorhome is just under 7m. We are weighing up whether we get a small car on a trailer or a 125 moped on a trailer to visit places or whether people find they don't need anything at all. Been a bit worried by people saying an empty trailer is an indication that you are away. I'm not a cyclist so bikes, even electric ones are not an option. What do you experienced folk do please?


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## wildman (Jul 23, 2016)

one would hope your van/trailer would be safe on a site. There are other options for the UK a braked "A" frame would leave no trailer behind, you could also carry a scooter/motorcycle on an easy lift towbar mount. Personally we just drive the motorhome 7 mtrs and trust in finding someplace to park it just moving form location to location and stopping where we intended to visit. Towing a trailer one wonders why not go back to a caravan if you are a site user. If not a site user maybe because of cost then add up the cost of tax/ins/mot that would pay for a good few nights on a CL.


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## witzend (Jul 23, 2016)

Hi instead of asking here why not try it and see how you manage. Some people do drag a car on a trailer around but this in it's self limits your parking options. If your not a cyclist a motorbike may not suit either. With a small van like yours I'd think you'd manage OK with out either but try it an see what suits others may not suit you.


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## Robmac (Jul 23, 2016)

A twist'n go 50 cc Scooter would be a lighter option, plus you can also carry a pillion passenger without having to take a test.


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## Obanboy666 (Jul 23, 2016)

Car and caravan or do what I am downsize to a PVC.
I made the decision to allow me to visit small villages etc in the lakes and other places which I couldn't do with my recently sold 6.6 metre c class.
I usually travel on my own with my dog so my PVC will be large enough, it all depends on individual circumstances.


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## Fletch6 (Jul 23, 2016)

We've got a Honda Vision 110cc it weighs 103kg and does 55mph with 2 on. Highly recommended.


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## Deleted member 19733 (Jul 23, 2016)

Robmac said:


> A twist'n go 50 cc Scooter would be a lighter option, plus you can also carry a pillion passenger without having to take a test.



Great idea Rob c: , 

but you would never make with 2 up going to Applecross up Bach-na-Ba  :scooter::scared::lol-061::lol-049:


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## CampingTom (Nov 21, 2016)

*Travelling around...*

Hi,

You can pick a decent 50cc scooter up for around £800-900 if you do some research.

Only issue is that you then have to locate somewhere to park that allows you to easily get the scooter on/off the trailer without causing trouble.


Depending where you are travelling in the world, If you are staying somewhere for a few days or overnight you can usually hire a quadbike or small buggy for a day.

They are great little things for getting around on, cheaper and easier than carrying an extra vehicle around with you as well.


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## Donk (Nov 21, 2016)

One of these fits on your tow bar & is easily removed and could be put inside your van when out and about 

Easy-Lifter Non-Lift system - Tel: 01509 268400 - £450.00 Inc VAT


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## jann (Nov 21, 2016)

We move on every day so it is not a problem. 

If we were going to stop in one place for several weeks then a car may be useful.

If you need transport I think bikes are a better option.


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## Wully (Nov 21, 2016)

I've had this same problem since i bought my current van its 8.5 meters so getting parked big problem I'm looking for a A framed car just now. But it all depends on how much you're gonna use it and if you can use said car when you're at home. I hired a small car from budget a couple of times when I made  long journeys down south I just booked car in last big town we were passing through and dropped it back of when heading home cost about £40 for three days so this may work out cheaper if your only using 6 times a year hope I've no just givin you another head scratcher cheers wully


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## jeffmossy (Nov 21, 2016)

I just cant see the point with people dragging cars around at the back of motorhomes, it would be a lot easier to have a caravan and tow that with a car. Just my thoughts and views ...........


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## Mul (Nov 21, 2016)

We Tow a motorbike trailer regular for the car which is fine and would never ever ever lug a bloody car behind us. I'd rather poke my eyes out with rusty blunt nails dipped in bubonic plague. Things ( which we wouldn't bat an eyelid at doing now) that put me off in no particular order ... Twisty roads, pulling power, torque, wee Twisty road reversing, car parking, extra insurance cost, fuel economy, cheeky 3point turns, cheeky wild campings a no-no, parking spaces ... Just my opinion of course !

When we park up we park up. Of course moving off everything has to be put away in its place. That's fine. I would however like to hide wee bike somewhere  when ever we retire and bugger off 4ever( except on a trailer). My current Yamaha TDM900 is too big. Mebbe a wee run around Varadero 125? 

Chrz Mul


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## Fazerloz (Nov 21, 2016)

Oops.


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## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2016)

Much easyer to ph a taxi than t/car.
Those we scooters with small wheels are death traps in & out of pot holes and if not a biker  stay well clear,im on bikes 50 years and would not put a leg through one.
Remember a grand at least for boots leathers gloves helmet wetware etc.


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## Mul (Nov 21, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Much easyer to ph a taxi than t/car.
> Those we scooters with small wheels are death traps in & out of pot holes and if not a biker  stay well clear,im on bikes 50 years and would not put a leg through one.
> Remember a grand at least for boots leathers gloves helmet wetware etc.



Yep my Shoei  lid is 400quid 5 years old and I'm due a new un all rest of (bulky kevlar gear, boots etc) gear no change outta a grand.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 21, 2016)

The Honda was £700 had done less than 2000mls. The price of riding gear now is cheaper than it ever has been and perfectly good gear can be got for far less than the prices been talked about.


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## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2016)

Fazerloz said:


> The Honda was £700 had done less than 2000mls. The price of riding gear now is cheaper than it ever has been and perfectly good gear can be got for far less than the prices been talked about.



Helmet 300/400 boots 100/200 jacket 150/300 trousers 90/150 gloves 40/100,about a grand id say.


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## yeoblade (Nov 21, 2016)

Minimal wear is not always a nice sight: :scared:







A 4 star Sharp rated helmet can be had for way less than £100. You can pretty much pay as little or much as your  pockets allows.

The secret is more in not falling/getting hit off in the first place, and experience. I was watching the young girls riding pillion side saddle on the scooters as they updated facebook, in Asia, without a glance at the road, but they have been doing it almost since birth.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 21, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Helmet 300/400 boots 100/200 jacket 150/300 trousers 90/150 gloves 40/100,about a grand id say.



We can all make up figures to fit if we want. You like Ebay look up prices of stuff with comparable safety marks . You can pay a lot or a little , you do not have to pay a fortune. 
Uber Imola Full Face Motorcycle / Motorbike / Scooter Crash Helmet - ACU Gold | eBay
Helmet less than £25 ACU gold approved. 

All I am saying is it does not HAVE to cost a fortune.


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## Wully (Nov 21, 2016)

Back to towin the car thing. A 125 bikes not going to help me unless you know someone who could fit a sidecar to it there's three of us . Think I'll compromise and tow a caravan behind motorhome just canny get ma heed roon this. Are there any wild camper members that tow a car.


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## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2016)

Keep ones eyes of young girls as the pace maker will fuse.


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## Canalsman (Nov 21, 2016)

Looser cruiser said:


> Back to towin the car thing. A 125 bikes not going to help me unless you know someone who could fit a sidecar to it there's three of us . Think I'll compromise and tow a caravan behind motorhome just canny get ma heed roon this. Are there any wild camper members that tow a car.



Do bear in mind that the use of A-frames is deemed illegal in a number of European countries. It is only permitted in the UK because there has never been a court ruling on whether or not it's legal in the UK.


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## trevskoda (Nov 21, 2016)

Fazerloz said:


> We can all make up figures to fit if we want. You like Ebay look up prices of stuff with comparable safety marks . You can pay a lot or a little , you do not have to pay a fortune.
> Uber Imola Full Face Motorcycle / Motorbike / Scooter Crash Helmet - ACU Gold | eBay
> Helmet less than £25 ACU gold approved.
> 
> All I am saying is it does not HAVE to cost a fortune.



True but i think there polycorbonate crap rather than g/fibre.


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## Wully (Nov 21, 2016)

POI Admin said:


> Do bear in mind that the use of A-frames is deemed illegal in a number of European countries. It is only permitted in the UK because there has never been a court ruling on whether or not it's legal in the UK.



Cheers I'm gonna do some more homework on this. Perfect rig .. vw California long wheelbase and a nice 18 foot German caravan best of both worlds..


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## Fazerloz (Nov 21, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> True but i think there polycorbonate crap rather than g/fibre.



They are tested to the same standard as g/fibre. But lets spend a bit more then. STEALTH MOTORCYCLE MOTORBIKE FULL CARBON FIBRE HELMET FULL FACE HELMET ACU GOLD | eBay :have fun:


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## Deleted member 9849 (Nov 21, 2016)

jeffmossy said:


> I just cant see the point with people dragging cars around at the back of motorhomes, it would be a lot easier to have a caravan and tow that with a car. Just my thoughts and views ...........



They are also my thoughts,I did have an A frame and toad a few years back but didn't like it.I was a tugger for 20 years and upgraded to the extra freedom of a motorhome.When I tried towing a car I found that I lost the concept of spontaneity which is the advantage of having a motorhome.Quite often we would visit interesting places on the spur of the moment and make it part of the journey.We have seen some lovely and unexpected places when doing this.I found that I was reluctant to go down any narrow roads with the toad on the back in case a 3 point turn was necessary which negated having a motorhome.

We make use of public transport where we can,you do meet some interesting local people on service buses and trains/trams.If I decide that I need a car when abroad then I hire one as car rental is so cheap.We've also got a couple of full size electric bikes in the garage which make exploring local places easier.


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## barryd (Nov 21, 2016)

Another vote for the Honda Vision 110cc.  We had a two stroke Peugeot for years on an Armitage Trailers rack and when it died a couple of years ago we got the Vision.  The rack is certainly the best one Ive ever come across.  Bike on or off in less than a minute.

Did 4000 miles on ours across France last year.  The good thing is you can just leave the van in situ and we find that there is less of a tendency to feel the need to move on every day.  You probably see so much more as well.  No need to park in packed out town Aires either.  Just find a quiet one a few miles from where you want to be and of course turn up mid morning rather than late in the day when you might not get a good spot or on at all.

For most of last summer we had done more miles on the bike than the van.

We never spent anything on safety gear though.  How many people do you see on the Cote D'Azur in mid summer when its 30c+ in full leathers and boots on a scooter?  Flip flops and T shirts.


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## barryd (Nov 21, 2016)

I know your right Graham but I would rather take the chance in hot climbs and enjoy the freedom.  Most of the time we are not going much faster than cyclists in Lycra especially coming down Alpine passes.  They belt along.

Ill wear a thick jacket and jeans in this country though but mainly down to the weather as well as the appalling treatment and awareness of bikes in the UK.  Mainland Europe is much more bike aware than here.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 21, 2016)

Is this you Barry dashing back to your van. Scooter Crashes Into Guardrail on Mulholland - YouTube If you look at some of the others. Mulholland Highway. I don't think they should allow Americans near bends.  :scooter:


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## barryd (Nov 21, 2016)

Fazerloz said:


> Is this you Barry dashing back to your van. Scooter Crashes Into Guardrail on Mulholland - YouTube If you look at some of the others. Mulholland Highway. I don't think they should allow Americans near bends.  :scooter:



No. 

Why did he put his foot down?  should have easily got round that.  Wasnt even a tight bend.  The little Vision has wheels and tyres more like a motorcycle than a traditional scooter and corners like its on rails.  You will hit the centre stand long before it looses any traction.  Perfect for flying round U bends as we like to call them in the Alps or Pyrenees but long drags uphill are a bit of a bind as its way under powered for such things really two up.  The compromise of power over weight though I suppose and being able to put it on a rack.

All my flip flops have worn out front soles on them.


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## Goggles (Nov 21, 2016)

Our van is 6.44 metres long and we have never had a problem parking it although we do only travel in the UK at the mo. I personally can't see the point in towing a car, it seems a bit arse about face to me.


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## skybanner (Nov 22, 2016)

*Tow*

Hi yer,
We tow a small car. First one was a C1 . Really great little car. We now have a  Toyato  Argro.  We use a Braked A- Frame from Tow-Cars -to -Tow Bars  at Grimsby. Lincs. Would'nt be without it. I have angina so using a bike up hills isn't fun. Forget cold windy weather also. Our Motorhome is an Auto Trail Savannah   7.6 Metres.  We have camera.s on dash and rear of motorhome.


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## Nesting Zombie (Nov 22, 2016)

Julieliz said:


> Hello,
> We are trying to do some research about how people get around once they are parked up at their destination. Our mot
> 
> 
> rhome is just under 7m. We are weighing up whether we get a small car on a trailer or a 125 moped on a trailer to visit places or whether people find they don't need anything at all. Been a bit worried by people saying an empty trailer is an indication that you are away. I'm not a cyclist so bikes, even electric ones are not an option. What do you experienced folk do please?



Rather than Tow anything why not have a Scooter Rack on the back ?

Have a look at the Pixxes below (Links below from the For sale section about 3 pages back & includes other bits,) to get an idea of how one works.
This is some of the other bits that's going with it
Dropbox - IMAG1398.jpg

Dropbox - IMAG1399.jpg

Dropbox - IMAG1331.jpg

Dropbox - IMAG1329.jpg

Dropbox - IMAG1328.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/<br /> 6dd...G1318.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/<br /> k84...G1354.jpg?dl=0

Dropbox - Error

Dropbox - Error

So that's the wind out Awning, The Side walls & 
Poles, The Fold in/out Step & The Motorcycle 
Carrier (Without Light board). All for £250 in cash to me, PLUS £100 Donation to this site. All or Nothing. If anyone is interested...


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## GWAYGWAY (Nov 22, 2016)

When people on here start going on about towing, car, trailers etc, or about lifting small motorbike on to racks on the back on the said towbars, I sometimes shudder. The weight of the towbar on my van is 66 kgs, almost my weight, and then add a lifting rack to that then add a bike or scooter.
What do you think is the affect that has on the rear axle weight of the van,  the answer is put it WAY OVER the limits. The amount of overhang from the rear axle times the weight added is the moment and that make a see saw effect lifting the front axle and increasing the rear one,  very often by an illegal amount. I noticed when driving mine at a weight which has a lot of rear component that the van is easily upset by slipstreams from other vehicles and want to weave needing a lot of input to the steering. Without anything in the garage it is fine, fully loaded and still in limits it weaves. put all the weight out the back by another meter it would be downright dangerous, the tail wagging the dog in fact.  The MH on the news losing control on the motorway the other day  looks like a full garage weight wagging the van around, he might have been under 'the influence' or not but he could not control the weaving around that the van was displaying, it should not have been doing that at all drunk driver or not.
Just bear in mind what the distance  that the weight from the axle does to the weight and balance of the whole van, the back is heavy and the front less so by the same amount, where are the steering wheels located????? front or back tyre flex.


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## barryd (Nov 22, 2016)

GWAYGWAY said:


> When people on here start going on about towing, car, trailers etc, or about lifting small motorbike on to racks on the back on the said towbars, I sometimes shudder. The weight of the towbar on my van is 66 kgs, almost my weight, and then add a lifting rack to that then add a bike or scooter.
> What do you think is the affect that has on the rear axle weight of the van,  the answer is put it WAY OVER the limits. The amount of overhang from the rear axle times the weight added is the moment and that make a see saw effect lifting the front axle and increasing the rear one,  very often by an illegal amount. I noticed when driving mine at a weight which has a lot of rear component that the van is easily upset by slipstreams from other vehicles and want to weave needing a lot of input to the steering. Without anything in the garage it is fine, fully loaded and still in limits it weaves. put all the weight out the back by another meter it would be downright dangerous, the tail wagging the dog in fact.  The MH on the news losing control on the motorway the other day  looks like a full garage weight wagging the van around, he might have been under 'the influence' or not but he could not control the weaving around that the van was displaying, it should not have been doing that at all drunk driver or not.
> Just bear in mind what the distance  that the weight from the axle does to the weight and balance of the whole van, the back is heavy and the front less so by the same amount, where are the steering wheels located????? front or back tyre flex.



That might be true for some but not if you do your home work like I did.  Our rack for a start was fitted by Armitage Trailers into the Alko Chassis of our Kontiki and is rated to 200kg.  The vans payload however restricts this to bikes around the 100KG mark hence the Vision.  Also with an Alko chassis you generally have a shorter overhang so the overall weight on the rear axle is less than on a standard chassis with a long over hang.  This also reduces the problems reported by some of handling issues.

Also our van being a luton with an overhead cab it offers the ability to store other weight forward in the Luton like two folding bikes and an inflatable Kayak.  I have my loading off to a fine art now and I notice no difference with the bike on the back in handling.

Sadly though there are very few vans that tick all the boxes for us in both layout and the ability to take a rack and scooter which is one reason we have hung on to the current one so long (coming up 9 years).

There is a good calculator for scooter racks at the bottom of this article.  Safe loading and payloads | Advice | Practical Motorhome


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## Nesting Zombie (Nov 22, 2016)

GWAYGWAY said:


> When people on here start going on about towing, car, trailers etc, or about lifting small motorbike on to racks on the back on the said towbars, I sometimes shudder. The weight of the towbar on my van is 66 kgs, almost my weight, and then add a lifting rack to that then add a bike or scooter.
> What do you think is the affect that has on the rear axle weight of the van,  the answer is put it WAY OVER the limits. The amount of overhang from the rear axle times the weight ardded is the moment and that make a see saw effect lifting the front axle and increasing the rear one,  very often by an illegal amount. I noticed when driving mine at a weight which has a lot of rear component that the van is easily upset by slipstreams from other vehicles and want to weave needing a lot of input to the steering.
> Without anything in the garage it is fine, fully loaded and still in limits it weaves. put all the weight out the back by another meter it would be downright dangerous, the tail wagging the dog in fact.  The MH on the news losing control on the motorway the other day  looks like a full garage weight wagging the van around, he might have been under 'the influence' or not but he could not control the
> weaving around that the van was displaying, it
> ...



WHY would you even THINK about putting a 
Motorcycle Carrier & Scooter on a Towbar fitting 
that ONLY has a 66kg Load Capacity ? (If that's what you ment by your definition of 'Weight' I could be mistaken on this point)
I would think that THAT would make most people Shudder !. But does infact highlight the lack of 
research some people do in such matters.
Well done for highlighting that point.
Just to add,,My Rear Axel weight WITH my scooter Carrier FITTED was 1100kg, The CAPACITY of my rear Axel is 1400kg, So in my case I had enough carrying capacity for a Scooter.

(Not a dig by the way, just a genuine point ref RESEARCH to be done)


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## GWAYGWAY (Nov 22, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> WHY would you even THINK about putting a
> Motorcycle Carrier & Scooter on a Towbar fitting
> that ONLY has a 66kg Load Capacity ? (If that's what you ment by your definition of 'Weight' I could be mistaken on this point)
> I would think that THAT would make most people Shudder !. But does infact highlight the lack of
> ...



You did not get what I intended you  to get. MY TOWBAR  that actual steel thing, is what weighs 66KG, I know I got it from Hymer and fitted it myself under there and needed the help of a jack to get it up at the rear  as it is long, going right forwards to the  main chassis  by the axle. It is alright saying the rack  fitted to it has a capacity of 200 kgs  it has in that, the rack, is strong enough to hold that weight safely in the way it is made but the combined weights and the lever arm are the way to calculate the effect on the weight and balance.  When I did my pilots licence the most awkward thing was the Weight and balance module, Done on a Boeing 747 and they are big but they can be ovecome by  misplaced crates in the hold, enough that the whole plane would be un-flyable.  (You tube film at Bagram Airfield when one took off and the weight moved back)  A little motorhome is worse affected that  that as the weights are a bigger part of the whole figure.   A caravan with back weight is going to crash, almost certainly when the wag starts. same effect.  To do the calculations correctly you must calculate the lever arm which is the distance from the pivot( axle) and multiply it by the weight which then gives a figure of Kilo/meters or foot/lbs  which is a torque measurement lifting the front axle upwards.


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## Nesting Zombie (Nov 22, 2016)

Ahhhh right !
Understanding what you mean.


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## alwaysared (Nov 22, 2016)

Any one using the Easy-Lifter hydra trail?
A bit expensive but seems to have the advantages of a trailer with the storage advantage of a rack. Claims to take 85% of the weight off the van 

Regards,
Del


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## barryd (Nov 22, 2016)

alwaysared said:


> Any one using the Easy-Lifter hydra trail?
> A bit expensive but seems to have the advantages of a trailer with the storage advantage of a rack. Claims to take 85% of the weight off the van
> 
> Regards,
> Del



There is a video for one here.  Easylifter hydratrail - YouTube

I met up with some friends in the spring that had one or one similar.  It was a right carry on but may have been a different model.

I guess you have the worry of needing spares or something breaking a thousand miles from home.


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