# Spain ? no-way.



## noody (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm only one year old as a motor-home owner, on buying our van my dreams included Spain, I love the food, the history, the weather, in fact everything about Spain and the Spanish gives me a warm-feelin. though my only experience of Spain and the Spanish has been North Majorca and the Canary-Islands.

After hearing all the stories and reading post from people who will never go back I'm resolute not to subject myself to the thieving targeted at motorhomes from other countries.

How is it that the targets are tourers from out of Spain and rarely the Spanish ? Are the police blinkered and tolerant of this thieving ? How come I don't hear any stories of a thief being cornered and given a pasting ?

Are these thieves, Thieving Spanish or do they belong to the traveling public of Spain and another ethnic group or groups ? Maybe visiting Spain for the summer and thieving from the tourers is a world-wide 'thing-to-do'.

So, what's your story and what's your view ?

Richard.


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## Deleted member 919 (Apr 26, 2009)

Richard ,I like you have read the posts about robberys etc but i have also spoken to a lot more people who have had no problems( and do know someone who has ).I have had a motorhome 4 years and not been to Spain but do go twice a year to France and have been Belguim and Holland with no problems.If it is your dream DO IT. Just use common sense and if you dont feel safe move on to where you do.I'm sure theres as many scumbags over here as in Spain that would rob you given the chance.(I consider myself pretty streetwise and can spot a scumbag from miles away but am always alert to an area.)
Rob


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## noody (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks for those kind-words Rob, yes I have also read reports and know people who haven't had problems though the balance is heavily in the one direction.

A few days ago I spoke with a retired couple who had a 'follower', they ended-up leaving their van with a guard in a compound. This couple illustrated so many thieves of  east-european traveling type that the thieves were everywhere and sometime walking round in pairs making it obvious they were looking for targets.

Ok, its just one amongst many stories but it begs belief that the Spanish don't seem to bother.

Last year I thought the stories emanated from nervous old couples, a year-on I realise that most of the stories are coming from those who love Spain, they go-back regardless, in some cases they go-back 'tooled-up'.

What a shame, unfortunately my partner has picked-up on the stories, she figures there are far to many places to go where your less-likely to get picked-on.

I had wondered if the Spanish police regard this problem as travelers stealing from travelers so its Ok.

Richard.


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## EvaV (Apr 26, 2009)

We are Spanish (from near Barcelona), we spend our normal weekends in Spain, we never had an incident in our country, although we don't enjoy being in crowded places.

We don't feel unsafe in our country, although we love going northwards, spending all our long week-ends in France, and our long august holidays varying between Norway, Finland, Island, Switzerland, and for august 2009 we are planning Ireland.

You should go wherever you feel like going to. 

Spain is not as polite and evolved as its northern neigbour countries, but it is not so dangerous as to be afraid, either. 
It is a corner in Europe (southern, but Europe at the end).


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## noody (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks to everyone's positive input, I'm saving these post for my partner who needs more encouragement that me.

I felt a little embaressed that ***** had to point-out the Spanish were lovely people. Can I make this clear, I have absolutely no-problem with the spanish people or any race. The reason for my post is that my dream was to visit Spain and that Spain is taking a lot of hits from people who won't go back.

My partner is in Spain right-now whilst I prepare for our trip to the Republic of Ireland, we buy Spanish food from a delicatesan (In Wales, Bizarre) and in fact after my supper I have at great expense, a, Tarta de Almendras to wade through. All alone.

Yes, I agree, you should go where you want. I don't want to go to Spain and can't sleep at night, I don't want to go to Spain with a baseball bat by the door and yes, everywhere has its ass-holes. Right now Spain is suffering a lot of poor public relations because of the thieving and it appears the police don't bother dealing with the problem as it escalates, consequently it seems to be escalating.

Yes, thanks for the very positive input. Please keep it going, I need help.

Richard.


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## marc2 (Apr 26, 2009)

My wife and I spent about three months 'wilding' around Portugal and Spain last winter with no problems at all. The locals were all friendly and we often camped in remote spots with no-one else around.

It'd be a shame to cross Spain from your list based on a few experiences of fellow campers, after all, the internet can be a great source of mis-information and one person's idea of a 'dodgy scumbag' may differ greatly from yours.

Just chill out and do it. As others have said, just be sensible about where you stop, but don't get paranoid as you're probably as much at risk in the UK as you are in Europe, if not more so.

Happy travels.


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## Tony Lee (Apr 26, 2009)

> yes I have also read reports and know people who haven't had problems though the balance is heavily in the one direction.



Not at all in one direction

The great majority of people who don't have any problems don't bother going around telling all that will listen about the non-problem they had in Spain/UK/WhoopWhoop or wherever. 
It is just the very small minority who do have problems or know someone's aunties third cousin's mother who (supposedly) had a problem who scream loud and long.

To help balance the lopsided view, we did not have any problems in Spain --

or Holland or Belgium or France or Germany or Denmark or Sweden or Norway or Iceland or UK or Morocco (well except for the scammers) or Portugal or Australia.

And we wild/bush/stealth/free-camp as much as possible.


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## starblazer (Apr 26, 2009)

just back from 11 weeks wilding in Spain without any problems though we were broken into near Benidorm 5 years ago. Most things are common sense, would you leave your 'van unoccupied in an undesirable area of the UK? so why do it abroad. This year we were with a couple that had stuff stolen out of their van BUT if you leave the doors wide open and you are both out of sight of the van who is to blame?
Spain is no worse than most other countries for being broken into, yes it even happens in the UK

bertie


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## noody (Apr 26, 2009)

I really-really appreciate this barrage of positive views, seems like I only paid attention to negative feed-back and yes, I agree, happy campers come-home and say nothing.

The really worrying re-occuring message was that the '*****s' were consistently picking on UK and German vans, the guess was down to the police doing nothing because tourers go-home, end of problem.

I'm looking forward to my partner reading this thread when she gets back from Spain, I need the help so thanks-everyone but keep it coming.

Better make myself a cuppa and wade into that Almond-cake. Very expensive but fabulous and only the Spanish do it right.

Richard.


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## messenger 2.5td (Apr 26, 2009)

Remember a story being in the news a couple of years ago,occupants of camper were woken up during the night by someone being very sick outside.Went out to find they had tried to syphon the contents of the fuel tank only they had placed the tubing into the wrong tank and digested the contents of the grey water tank insteadpoetic justice me thinks,Andy.


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## lenny (Apr 26, 2009)

messenger 2.5td said:


> Remember a story being in the news a couple of years ago,occupants of camper were woken up during the night by someone being very sick outside.Went out to find they had tried to syphon the contents of the fuel tank only they had placed the tubing into the wrong tank and digested the contents of the grey water tank insteadpoetic justice me thinks,Andy.



Pity it was,nt the Black water tank


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## shortcircuit (Apr 26, 2009)

My grandson is doing Karting and if it is of any consolation to you I have just got back from a weekend in Wigan with a trip two weeks previous to the north of Wales, Cambridge and York.  Now I must have passed through some scary areas but managed to get back to bonny Scotland unscathed.

Unfortunately I have not managed to get to Spain with the MH but have had many package holidays in Spain with absolutely no problem.

Karting is taking us to Belgium and France this year for the first time and I am really looking forward to it.

The point of my posting is don't believe all you are told and as indcated in previous posting use common sense to park up in sensible areas.

Roll on France, once I have passed through the "Auld Enemy" zone!!!!!!


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## Deleted member 207 (Apr 27, 2009)

We had an attempted break in (2007), I stupidly ignored advice from other wilders not to stop on any motorway service areas around Barcelona or along the Costa Lots, we got done while trying to have a meal in the restaurant - not even overnighting.

The common view among other wilders was that the thieving is specifically targetted at tourists for a few reasons - 80% wont speak the local language fluently enough to report to Police; the thieves are unlikely to be locals - illegal immigrants got the blame; If you catch the culprits at it you are less likely to take the law into your own hands if you are a tourist; most tourists have travel/vehicle insurance so the the thieves dont see it as a crime.

We also got warned off the Gothenburg to Oslo road - and took the advice - immigrants from the Baltic states got the blame in Norway!!

I might add that I saw plenty of thieving when I worked in youth hostels in the UK in the early 1970s - the thieves back then would target overseas vistors and try and take all of their ID so that they could not cancel their travellers cheques until they got a new passport. The thieves that we caught (about 6) were all from the USA and were avoiding the draft for Vietnam.


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## bob690 (Apr 27, 2009)

I have travelled all over france and never had a problem, I have felt safer anywhere in france from Marseille to Brittany, than I would walking down Lord st in Southport at 11pm  at night. I am on my own as well. Having said that, God I have seen some nerds at times. Dont dress like a tourist, dont be a nancy, have confidence, your outcome is in your own hands. LEARN the language and look like you mean business. I have stayed on many of the motorway aires, and always park near the lorries. You are also a lot less likely to get scum on a tolled motorway, even if you just go on to use the aire. I havent been to Spain except in the Pyrenees cos the scenery is just to brown for me but all people are the same and all scum are the same, wherever you are!
                                                                                        .......Bob


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## runnach (Apr 30, 2009)

I must admit I intended visiting Spain last year on my travels and decided to stop in France.

In Moliet et maa I came across two Spanish Families and asked the question.

They were of the opinion it was Morrocan immigrants that were the problem. And their transient lifestyle made it difficult for the police.

I was told that From Perpignan to Barcelona on the autoroutes was the bad part. Due to the proximity to the Ports.

Again i met others who had break ins but nothing out the ordinary if that makes sense.

But I agree with others, you have to do what is right and just excercise common sense.

I spent 9 months abroad last year and have lived in my camper for 12 months and the only place I had hassle was on a CL in my home town of Doncaster upon my return !!! and that was in an idyllic little village on the outskirts of town.

Ironic ? perhaps ....I would like to think that there is an underlying moral in jumping to conclusions on hearsay.

Channa


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## noody (Apr 30, 2009)

Thanks again to everyone for sharing, I shared your posts with my partner,  she also appreciates the positive views you-all present.

Richard.


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## Baggins (May 1, 2009)

*Don't be put off*

Just back from a 7 week wander down through France, Spain & Portugal as far as Sembrisa (smashing place) just south of Lisbon staying on Aires or friendly car-parks all the way.  Just 10 Euros well spent for 48 hours on a Bairritz Aire with electric for the whole trip.

Having not taken a van on a long trip abroad for 25 years (where we were robbed twice in two days in Rome by bag snatching gypsies) I was quite apprehensive for all the usual reasons – plus being 25 years older and on my own – but the trip was a joy with only one town Aire that didn’t ‘feel’ right so I moved on.

I think the best advice is to stick near other vans in towns and avoid motorway stops like the plague –ESPECIALLY where there is the old road running alongside a toll motorway.  Many times I noticed unwholesome types pulled over on the verge admiring the scenery!

I turned back before reaching the overcrowded Costas’ so can’t speak for those areas.

My advice………Fit a good loud alarm to the van and just do it.

BW

Afterthought:  For people really worried about possibility of overnight break-ins have a ‘panic’ button wired up to an air-horn and that should see them off.


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## runnach (May 1, 2009)

Baggins said:


> only one town Aire that didn’t ‘feel’ right so I moved on.
> 
> 
> Afterthought:  For people really worried about possibility of overnight break-ins have a ‘panic’ button wired up to an air-horn and that should see them off.



Interesting post point paragraph one ....good advice if it dont feel right odds are it isnt move on.

Paragraph two you can wire a nuclear bomb no use when you are gassed.??

My alarm is a German Shepherd that although tranquil and has been known to even wag her tail, Still succombs to gas.

Opportunists will try the quick break and grab routine, however the more sophisiticated assailant seems a bit more savvy.

I did think of buying my hound an NBC suit any idea who may be selling one ?

Before anyone gets too offended at my lack of literarary style ..I am attempting to point out, If you are unfortunate to be in the wrong place at the wrong time..very little you can do ...however I think it would be fair to suggest that these circumstances in the grand scale of things are pretty rare.

Channa ( and the hound in full gas mask )


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## noody (May 1, 2009)

It would take a gas-attack to keep me sleeping through a break-in and-though I'm quite prepared to defend myself I'm really very unused to the whole idea of having to prepare to defend myself.

It was only after buying a motorhome that we realised they were such targets. Our van is fitted with a safe, an external Fiamma door-lock and removable steering wheel that gets locked to the steel seat frames.

Richard.


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## starblazer (May 1, 2009)

Paragraph two you can wire a nuclear bomb no use when you are gassed.??

 do you ACTUALLY know of anyone that has been gassed in a motorhome? i know of someone that claims to have been gassed but that was only for insurance reasons, if you tell the insurers that you were robbed because you hadn't locked the door they aren't going to pay out so tell them you've been gassed, something that cannot be disproved, and you get paid for the claim. when we were robbed in France, on a motorway aire, everyone said that we must have been gassed but seeing that the 1/4 light window had been cut out i am sure that any gas put into the van would have gone out just as quick.

bertie, a very very sceptical gas attack believer


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## noody (May 1, 2009)

starblazer said:


> bertie, a very very sceptical gas attack believer



(Smile)

Last year when I first joined a motorhome forum I read about gas-attack and read about gas-attack in magazines selling sensors. A few posts have suggested that no-one actually knows anyone who has ever been attacked using gas.

Using gas to disable someone is very dangerous, a lot of older people could easily stop breathing. You don't need to be old, if you already take certain drugs for pain-relief someone administering soporific  gas to swipe your wallet could end-up on a murder charge.

Bertie and Richard,
Very sceptical gas-attack believers.


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## Dezi (May 1, 2009)

Hi,

Just returned -tuesday- from six weeks touring down through France, spain & northern Portugal. Porto & returning via the Douro valley,central Spain & France. Only paid for sites in Santiago,Porto,Madrid. The rest we wild camped & in places & also stayed for 2/3 days. Not so much as a smidgeon of a problem, except the LPG garage in Porto does NOT sell LPG, but a Shell garage down the road does. I will update stopping places & LPG when finally unpacked.
Dezi


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## runnach (May 1, 2009)

starblazer said:


> Paragraph two you can wire a nuclear bomb no use when you are gassed.??
> 
> do you ACTUALLY know of anyone that has been gassed in a motorhome? i know of someone that claims to have been gassed but that was only for insurance reasons, if you tell the insurers that you were robbed because you hadn't locked the door they aren't going to pay out so tell them you've been gassed, something that cannot be disproved, and you get paid for the claim. when we were robbed in France, on a motorway aire, everyone said that we must have been gassed but seeing that the 1/4 light window had been cut out i am sure that any gas put into the van would have gone out just as quick.
> 
> bertie, a very very sceptical gas attack believer



Starblazer if you re read my post I hope you can appreciate it was scribed a little bit toungue in cheek.

I dont know of anyone who has been gassed, but then again I dont know many people, I dont know you but you have had an experience in France you claim so I could ask the same question was it fact or fiction or an insurance scam.?( I promise I am not trying to be a clever ) If I were to relay your experience to others no different to the gassing analogy ? and others as you are may be sceptical of your tale. I hope you get my point I mean it in the most respectful way.

My main point was that one can find oneself in the wrong place at the wrong time in a global sense.And it is easy to 'pidgeon hole' that place has a bad place.

You had a bad experience in France, I lived there for 9 months and never had a problem. I have documented earlier the worst experience I have had is when I returned back to my home town ..so thats England a no no ??

In respect of the OP's original question of course he should question. However as I have alluded to and hopefully demonstrated crime and being a victim of isnt restricted to a border.

Fwiw the Op should like the rest of us visit where we want ..but perhaps it is prudent to be mindful of localised problems.

I am sorry if I have offended in some way but hopefully have given clarity to my opinion albeit thats all it is 

Channa


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## noody (May 1, 2009)

Hi Dezi.

I though LPG was almost unobtainable in Spain but I'm talking Auto-gas, what's the Auto-Gas situation ?

Richard


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## runnach (May 1, 2009)

noody said:


> Hi Dezi.
> 
> I though LPG was almost unobtainable in Spain but I'm talking Auto-gas, what's the Auto-Gas situation ?
> 
> Richard



Hearsay I am afraid Richard, bu ti have heard LPG is difficult to obtain in Spain.

I arrived on the continent with a calor bottle almost impossible to replenish.

A lot of advice suggested camping gaz was the answer. Ha sit turne dout i thought that was pricey to.

I simply visited a supermarket for 25 euros I got a calypso gas bottle complete with regulator...problem solved..

Moreover where ever I travelled there was always a supermarket selling Antargas ...I believe that this brand is readily available in Spain too...although I think Repsol is probably more prevalent.

Perhaps our Spanish colleagues can impart their wisdom 

Channa


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## noody (May 1, 2009)

channa said:


> .although I think Repsol is probably more prevalent.
> 
> Perhaps our Spanish colleagues can impart their wisdom
> 
> Channa



Repsol is Spanish Auto-Gas presumably ? I find it difficult to understand that Spain doesn't pander to LPG users yet a huge contingent of motorhome users from all over the continent holiday in Spain.

They use hook-up ?
BBQ's ?

I'm a novice, I'm asking questions that initially didn't need an answer. Spain, Italy, Germany, Croatia to name a few all produce motorhomes that use LPG.

Richard.


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## runnach (May 1, 2009)

Repsol is a major brand in Spain, so when the need arises to replenish it shouldnt be a problem. 

As for what is the most flexible product, Our Spanish contributors can impart more wisdom 

Channa


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## walkers (May 26, 2009)

Noody follow the golden rules, try to stop where there are other motorhomers (safety in numbers), don't park up for the night at a motorway service or aires where you are the only motorhome and the most important if at any time you feel uncomfortable move on. Loads of motorhomes tour this country (Spain) with no problems if you are really concerned then maybe for your first visit use sites.
Now get over here and enjoy!!!!

Tony


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## noody (May 26, 2009)

Thanks Tony, with all the positive responses I feel much more comfy about a visit to Spain. Our first trip will be to Ireland for 12 days on Friday then After summer holidays and dependent on my partners work commitments we will first try France/Germany.


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## alanval (May 26, 2009)

We are just back after spending 5 months in Portugal and through Spain.We have been there the last three winters now and Not one bit of bother.I honestly sayI hav`nt spoken to anyone who has but have heard through others about others who have been robbed! But no actual fact.I know it does happen as they say you have to be carefull.You dont go out and leave the windows and doors open we wouldnt do that at home .By the way heard also about someone getting broken into and everything taken that was in Ireland...We also wild camp all the time very seldom go on sites..And we dont frequent the costas much.....It was reported in the English/ Portugees pape rthat ther were 60000 motorhomes in Portugal over the winter some of the wild camping spots had around 100 on them at a time. So the fear of theives can`t frighten that many .

 Val


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## Guest (May 26, 2009)

alanval said:


> We are just back after spending 5 months in Portugal and through Spain.We have been there the last three winters now and Not one bit of bother.I honestly sayI hav`nt spoken to anyone who has but have heard through others about others who have been robbed! But no actual fact.I know it does happen as they say you have to be carefull.You dont go out and leave the windows and doors open we wouldnt do that at home .By the way heard also about someone getting broken into and everything taken that was in Ireland...We also wild camp all the time very seldom go on sites..And we dont frequent the costas much.....It was reported in the English/ Portugees pape rthat ther were 60000 motorhomes in Portugal over the winter some of the wild camping spots had around 100 on them at a time. So the fear of theives can`t frighten that many .
> 
> Val (/quote)
> 
> ...


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## noody (May 27, 2009)

Oh-yes.

I'm aware there are scum-bags everywhere, I had my flip-flops swiped from the beach twice here at home. I'm also aware I could be vulnerable in Ireland in much the same as being vulnerable anywhere though the reports of theft and break-ins in Spain seemed to come thick and fast and on a more regular basis together with no interest from the police on the basis it would be a problem in a week or two because visitors go home.

I'm still mystified how anyone can sleep through a break-in to find the culprit inside the van searching through personal possessions, is this to do with the size of some vans ? Our van has two doors, both are vulnerable to attack in daytime though only one at night because one is covered by the pull-down bed.

How could someone break-in without disturbing me sleeping two foot away, and then we have a dog, not a guard-dog but she makes noises.


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## alanval (May 27, 2009)

noody said:


> Oh-yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I agree I dont understand how this can happ.en I am a light sleeper I hear every little sound.
They must make some noice breaking in .We also have a dog a lazy Corgi but she would still grumble a bit ..Might be with a little to much of the local vino they sleep sound...lol..One story I heard the lady woke to find someone rummaging under the bed.He ran away with her handbag.. We do have a safe for passports money etc might not stop anyone but would take them longer.
 Val


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## noody (May 27, 2009)

A break-in whilst we're away is possible but I think I made it improbable, habitation door has a Fiamme door-clasp and the near-side door would be chained to the passenger seat, the steering wheel is removable and is locked to the chain so anyone thinking of driving my van away would need to consider how to do it without a steering wheel.

The chain that I use is actually a motorbike lock that consists of a steel cable with hardened steel rollers over the cable, you would need a grinder/cutter to get through it. Who is going to make all the noise necessary to get through that ?

The only other vulnerable point is one sliding window on driver-side, you cannot even force this open because I leave a length of timber wedged between the glass and the front of the van.


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## John H (Nov 19, 2009)

Just come across this thread for the first time and would like to say that we have spent four winters touring round Spain, wildcamping and on campsites, and have had no problems of any kind. We have met others (a small handful) who have been robbed and - although any incident is, of course, dreadful - they seem to fall into two categories: 1. Motorways and 2. Supermarket carparks. We are retired and in no hurry so we rarely use motorways (and especially do not stop overnight at motorway service stations). If you do need to use motorways (especially the one from Perpignan to Barcelona, which seems to be badly affected) then the advice from the Spanish police is not to stop for any unmarked car and, if confronted by someone claiming to be an official, only agree to speak to him if he accompanies you to the nearest police station. Also, leave the motorway before settling down for the night. Criminals are lazy buggers and concentrate on areas where the pickings are easy - they rarely search through small villages or remote coves looking for victims. As for the problem of supermarket carparks (another rich-picking location for the thieves) we now shop alternately, with one of us in the van at all times (admitedly this is a problem if you are travelling on your own but perhaps you could team up with another traveller for shopping). The basic message is the same as for living in a house - be vigilant but not terrified. In seven post-retirement years of motorhoming we have only been broken into once - in a museum car park in Budapest - and that was our fault. We have met people who have been robbed on campsites (probably by other tourists!) so nowhere is perfectly safe. If you listened to all the scare stories you would never leave your house (and that's not the safest place to be, either). So, be sensible, be vigilant, be happy and travel wherever you feel like travelling - life is too short to hide away from it. We're going back to Spain next winter and are looking forward to it - as we always do.


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## Belgian (Nov 19, 2009)

Hi John
You spoke the truth, nothing but the truth and the only truth 
It all comes  to 'common sence': if you don't 'feel' safe: leave from suspected spots and avoid highways, hypermarkets and very frequented places. Take the way-off villages and remote places; criminals don't got here: it's a too much effort for them to get there 
Be vigilant, but without trauma 
Happy wilding in the wild


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## guerdeval (Nov 19, 2009)

I spent last winter in Benicassim which is a pretty up market Spanish town and I was talking to a local resident (not motorhomer) who told me most of the crime in the area was Eastern Europeans, he had a friend whose ear was half removed by a Romanian in Alicante trying to rob him so there are crimes against the Spanish too. I did notice that in general Spanish fear big dogs, they would cross over to avoid my Doberman who was only a baby at the time, he's 29" and 50kg now so they'de probably fill their pants!, forget the baseball bat get a Doby!I've trained him to carry a baseball bat for double insurance.


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## vwalan (Nov 19, 2009)

every body blames east europeans now. what happened in spain 40yr ago when handbags were grabbed by passing scooter drivers /passengers .there wernt any east europeans then. nicking from campers as been going on for ever. its easy give em 3 pints of larger n a packet of crisps then rob their van. oh we were gassed .yes i,m sure. dont forget they do cut the window rubbers and remove your windows . its happened to me . how do you prevent it i dont know. dog on front seat may help but have seen vans that have been broken into with a rotwieler sat in the front. cant believe it myself but it happened.


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## John H (Nov 19, 2009)

vwalan said:


> every body blames east europeans now. what happened in spain 40yr ago when handbags were grabbed by passing scooter drivers /passengers .there wernt any east europeans then. nicking from campers as been going on for ever. its easy give em 3 pints of larger n a packet of crisps then rob their van. oh we were gassed .yes i,m sure. dont forget they do cut the window rubbers and remove your windows . its happened to me . how do you prevent it i dont know. dog on front seat may help but have seen vans that have been broken into with a rotwieler sat in the front. cant believe it myself but it happened.



This is getting worrying - I'm now agreeing with both you and Derek!!!!!!


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## vwalan (Nov 19, 2009)

john are you off to spain this winter?
i ask s i am around all winter there i hope. we might have met you never know .it is a small world. always amazes me how many you can know on these forums but not actually put name to a face. 
i used to pull my artic trailer with  V W lt .now use a mitsubishi canter. you may have avoided me lots do.sometimes travel with a few mates in big n noisy trucks. with loud horns.


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## John H (Nov 19, 2009)

vwalan said:


> john are you off to spain this winter?
> i ask s i am around all winter there i hope. we might have met you never know .it is a small world. always amazes me how many you can know on these forums but not actually put name to a face.
> i used to pull my artic trailer with  V W lt .now use a mitsubishi canter. you may have avoided me lots do.sometimes travel with a few mates in big n noisy trucks. with loud horns.



Not this winter - our daughter has inconveniently just presented us with a new grand-daughter, so we made a rash promise to be stuck in the cold and damp for Christmas (they never think about anyone but themselves do they?). But we will be there next year - probably from October through to March. We have a McLouis Glen, 05 registration - if we see you, we'll steal your generator! Happy travels - I'll think of you as I shiver.


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## noody (Nov 20, 2009)

It's always Spain though, isn't it ? Ok, no-doubt Germany, France, Holland, Belgium all have thieves though out of all the EU destinations for motorhomes and caravans Spain either attracts more thieves or the police don't bother dealing with the problem.


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## John H (Nov 20, 2009)

noody said:


> It's always Spain though, isn't it ? Ok, no-doubt Germany, France, Holland, Belgium all have thieves though out of all the EU destinations for motorhomes and caravans Spain either attracts more thieves or the police don't bother dealing with the problem.



Well, no it isn't. My only experience, as posted above, was in Hungary and I have met others (fortunately few) who have been robbed in countries other than Spain. The reason why it appears there is a lot of it in Spain is because by far the majority of motorhoming Brits who go abroad go to Spain. To get to Spain, many pass through France - and you will hear as many tales about southern France as well. But don't be put off - the percentage is very small and you are probably more likely to be robbed at home. As for the Spanish police, I know from the experiences of the few people I have met who have had to deal with them that they are very helpful. Spain depends on tourism and the last thing they want to do is upset or put off visitors. The problem tends to lie more with those being robbed - I have never met one (myself included) who didn't say it was their own fault - leaving the passports on the drivers seat, leaving the van unlocked while going to the loo, believing people who try scams so well-known that they ought to have their own television series etc. Be careful but don't be paranoid.


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## frostybow (Nov 20, 2009)

hi we have toured a lot in spain longest trip 8 months shortest 4 months mostly wild camping we have never had any trouble dont be put of by the stories just use common sense when parking up.we are leaving for spain in may for 5 months might see you there


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## BillyB666 (Nov 20, 2009)

I reckon Frostybow has it right, we've toured all over Europe, never had problems - just be sensible - 99.99999999% of people are good & will help you where they can. Pack ya beans n sausage & get on Norfolk Lines web site. You'll have a ball

B


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## Hallii (Nov 20, 2009)

I just typed a long and involved reply but I deleted it after reading it!

What I was saying is more simply put.

Spain and Portugal are nice friendly safe places.

You can wild camp almost anywhere but avoid anywhere where you feel uncomfortable.

If you decide to go to Spain you will be made welcome, you will find that the local traders actually welcome your visit (unlike here!). So use the local shops, bars and garages etc. 

Have a meal at the beach bar and ask if you can stay on the car park, I have never been refused! At one place "Satan" the guard dog (that's not his proper name!) and I became good friends and he slept under my camper.

You will find some places with many campers wild camping, some are there  for months, so if you need to know something knock the door and ask.

Drive into a village and ask at the bar where the campers are parked and you will get excellent directions, probably in English, and an invite to eat there later on!

Finally, go and enjoy Spain, don't forget the mountains and inland villages, the lakes and the rivers. That's the real Spain, quiet, hot, sleepy, trouble free and very easy going. Forget the negative comments and just be sensible, you won't come to any harm!

Geoff


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## vwalan (Nov 20, 2009)

spain as a great influx  of campers at times .its like morocco .weare told about 25,000 campers enter maroc in the winter thats alot of campers if only 25 went inthe most robberies could only be 25. get it in proportion its actually not many real robberies .there are alot of people say they are robbed and claim on theitinsurance. making it mors difficult for every one. i got broken into last winter .i welded a peice of steel into the window aperture painted it white ,lost radio andfew bits but never claimed whats the point may not get ins,next time if lots keep claiming.we also need to think personal responsibility some are so careless and leave things on viewetc .


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## Tony Lee (Nov 21, 2009)

Needs a bit of thought before turning your MH into a fortress and locking yourself securely inside.
If there is a fire, you have seconds to get out.


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## pablisch (Jun 16, 2010)

*A sorry tale*

Hello, I know I've missed the boat on this discussion but I just wanted to say that I had always heard that the real danger spot for KO gas attacks was not Spain but the peage running along the French Med coast. of course that's not to say that anyone who parks there will get gassed. 

Personally, I've never had any trouble with gas. Got broken into twice in a week in portugal, but no gas. I've slept in a stupidly dark and quite place in an aire, but no gas. BUT, I have met a couple who just woke literally moments before, following a gas attack. They had lost everything and needed to borrow a phone as theirs was gone. It was a Spanish couple traveling through France.

So i am not a gas attack sceptic, I've seen the result.

What i want to know is how you stop it? If you have an alarm, does that make you panic a little as you drift into sleep? surely a loud noise does not negate the effect of the gas? Surely opening the windows is not a great idea surrounded by your attackers? and having gassed you, are they going to let you get away very easily?

I was wondering what type of gas mask filters you would need to be unaffected by this gas? Does anyone know? or does anyone have any suggestions who to ask?

Somehow it doesn't seem sensible to drive off in a motorhome filled with sleeping gas!

Regards to all, Pablito


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## noody (Jun 16, 2010)

18 months since I started this thread because of concerns and whilst I accept there are crooks everywhere the evidence for Spain and Portugal having the greatest collection of motorhome bandits appears on a regular basis whilst France gets a regular mention of being the most motorhome friendly country in the world.

The only explanation is that crooks targeting motorhomers in Spain and Portugal don't get targeted by the police, the crimes are not logged by the police so don't build-up as a problem or the police figure these are crimes against visitors who will go home and not become a collective problem.

If these crimes resulted in visitors avoiding the country to a noticeable level and affecting the businesses who thrive on tourists you can be sure something would be done.

In just the same way as dog owners rarely get the law thrown at them for fouling, if a concerted effort was made over a couple of years, heavy fines dished-out and more public condemnation the problem would halve.

________________________________________________
Richard. Distinguished kite-surfing gentleman
I don't do tricks. 




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## Guest (Jun 16, 2010)

noody said:


> 18 months since I started this thread because of concerns and whilst I accept there are crooks everywhere the evidence for Spain and Portugal having the greatest collection of motorhome bandits appears on a regular basis whilst France gets a regular mention of being the most motorhome friendly country in the world.
> 
> The only explanation is that crooks targeting motorhomers in Spain and Portugal don't get targeted by the police, the crimes are not logged by the police so don't build-up as a problem or the police figure these are crimes against visitors who will go home and not become a collective problem.
> 
> ...



I think that unfortunately in this economic climate we are now in, with high unemployment and tightening of belts. The younger generation used to having everything now and not later, these attacks may spiral upwards.
Unfortunately, it is a sign of the times and not just limited to Spain & Portugal


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## lebesset (Jun 16, 2010)

after 25 years of euro touring , being robbed 7 times but with virtually no loss [ if we want to chance staying in dodgy places then we have nothing worth stealing with us ] we have found the worst places are 

Italy , it's like a game for young men , plus now eastern europeans , robbed 3 times
s.france  italians and E. europeans , last year the french police set up a sting on the meditteranean motorways , and arrested 50 in 1 day ! robbed twice

portugal  , lots of tourists in the algarve   ...robbed once 

uk  young british men , robbed once ; good tip from policeman .... favourite now is st-navs , easily sold for drugs apparently ; don't leave a sat -nav ring on your windscreen or you can expect a broken window , most people just put their sat-nav out of sight apparently [ mine goes with me !] ; actually I think that tip probably applies world wide ...met somebody who lost theirs in calais last year 

spain ? never been robbed , but then I don't stop on motorways and tend to be more cautious where I park perhaps 

face the fact , tourist areas = thieves , nothing to do with spain , thats world wide


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## vwalan (Jun 16, 2010)

there as always been stealing in every country .nothing really to do with todays times .itsnever stopped .used to be handbag snatching. pickpockets etc .it can happen anywhere. i was done near valencia just before xmas. year before in agadir .10 yrs ago in agadir. could just as easy been here in cornwall .cheers have a nice holiday .alan.


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## snowthunder (Jun 16, 2010)

*Camping in Spain*

Hi guys, while I too love the Spanish culture, people etc, and having spent 6weeks a year camping over the last 5 years, i must say that after my experience last year, i will NEVER take my camper in2 Spain again. Not once, but TWICE in the space of 5 days was I "shadowed" by a couple of shady guys. While im sure these werent Spanish men, they were very dedicated in their efforts to get the camper alone, even following me in2 a private drive! My wife, and her parents were with me at the time, and needless 2say that did it for them. We kissed the ground on return to France!! Literally!
Been as far down a Montenegro, up to Denmark, over to Hungary and ive never encountered the feelings i got in Spain. But maybe thats just me!
Take care!


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## noody (Jun 16, 2010)

It's not just this forum, other forums, magazines and personal encounters with those who felt the same. It's a damn-shame. I have pal who drives down through Spain staying at various places then always ending-up in Tarifa for the kitesurfing, he has never had any problems. He has two big-black Newfoundlands that are very gentle but do a lot of barking at the right time and the bloke himself is a 120 kilos skin-head around the age of 40 who works as a firefighter now and was a pro-lifeguard for many years.

Get the picture ?

Life his dogs he-is a gentle-man and maybe he rarely leaves his van unattended but that must be difficult.

I think it's very important we-all share these stories along with the more positive ones.

________________________________________________
Richard. Distinguished kite-surfing gentleman
I don't do tricks. 




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## neilmac (Jun 16, 2010)

snowthunder said:


> Not once, but TWICE in the space of 5 days was I "shadowed" by a couple of shady guys. While im sure these werent Spanish men, they were very dedicated in their efforts to get the camper alone, even following me in2 a private drive!



Very interesting post! You could be one of the _extremely_ rare individuals who can tell a personal tale rather than the 'friend of a friend' type stuff.

As you were very aware of the characters on 2 separate occasions are you able to be more specific about their appearances (other than shady and not Spanish), their vehicle, whereabouts this occured etc. Did you, maybe, get any photos even mobile phone ones? Did you report it to any authorities?

Could be useful for others to know what to look for......


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## Deleted member 2636 (Jun 16, 2010)

Ah ha Tarifa! I would say that if you stay down at the wild camping bit near Spinout then it pays not to put all the "goods" on display. It can be too much temptation to the impecunious...

Know what I mean Squire, Nods as good as a wink to a blind bat etc


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## GregM (Jun 16, 2010)

snowthunder said:


> Hi guys, while I too love the Spanish culture, people etc, and having spent 6weeks a year camping over the last 5 years, i must say that after my experience last year, i will NEVER take my camper in2 Spain again. Not once, but TWICE in the space of 5 days was I "shadowed" by a couple of shady guys. While im sure these werent Spanish men, they were very dedicated in their efforts to get the camper alone, even following me in2 a private drive! My wife, and her parents were with me at the time, and needless 2say that did it for them. We kissed the ground on return to France!! Literally!
> Been as far down a Montenegro, up to Denmark, over to Hungary and ive never encountered the feelings i got in Spain. But maybe thats just me!
> Take care!



I've not taken the motorhome to Spain yet but hope to some time, although Tracey has been put of by a story of a friend of a friend of a friend ...... of a friend being attached at a motorway aire,  and the above post upset me in that after 5 years of visits you have been scared of by a couple of people.

Heck how many times do we look out of the front window at home and see people we don't like the look of, I've lost count the number of times I've seen people looking towards our Motorhome on the drive.  Should we move?


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## noody (Jun 16, 2010)

Anecdotal evidence is like probability and even though UK law doesn't accept it, some countries are swayed by the fact if it quacks, woddles when it walks with webbed-feet it's likely to be a duck.

I live in a part of North Pembrokeshire you-all would queue-up to camp outside my front door or on the paddock so even in the UK it's a hard-act to follow. Peace and quiet with a low-crime rate and even the cows and sheep notice a stranger so whilst I love the idea of Spain it wouldn't be a holiday to be looking over my shoulder all the time. You can have all the security devises in/on your van but with the type of lawless-ness often described they wouldn't be much use if some creep hangs-about long-enough knowing you will leave your van eventually.

Going on holiday with a baseball-bat isn't my idea of fun.

________________________________________________
Richard. Distinguished kite-surfing gentleman
I don't do tricks. 




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## kenspain (Jun 16, 2010)

I have lived here for 11 years 9 of then in my MH the only time i was rob here was on a campsite and they caught him trying to run out now were do you think he was from.?  YES THE UK Say no more.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Jun 16, 2010)

It seems that the best advice is not to stop 50Kms either side of the Franco Spanish border. It may also be a good diea to give Barca a miss for the same reason


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## Deepinvet (Jun 16, 2010)

Having 'Wild Camped' all over Europe from Sweden to Gib and Saliniki to Ireland, the only time someone tried to get in my Truck was in a Garage near Murcia......The only thing he got was a fat lip!!!
The other place I saw someone get into a Trailor was in Manchester.....  
We are going to Northern spain next month..
You can buy CS gas from the service areas, but get rid before you come back to uk as it's not allowed here for some strange reason....


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## Guest (Jun 17, 2010)

Deepinvet said:


> Having 'Wild Camped' all over Europe from Sweden to Gib and Saliniki to Ireland, the only time someone tried to get in my Truck was in a Garage near Murcia......The only thing he got was a fat lip!!!
> The other place I saw someone get into a Trailor was in Manchester.....
> We are going to Northern spain next month..
> You can buy CS gas from the service areas, but get rid before you come back to uk as it's not allowed here for some strange reason....



You can get the stronger CS gas from sports shops
The service station stuff is diluted


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## Deleted member 2636 (Jun 17, 2010)

CS gel is even better 'cos it doesn't blow back at you like the gas can... and it's a b*****r to get off: The more you try to remove it, the worse the effects become


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## jacm (Jun 18, 2010)

Hi, We too went to spain a year ago in our camper - had no probs... have 2 children that also enjoyed it!  Felt safer there than other places I've been much nearer to home!!!


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## Don (Jun 19, 2010)

The only place I ever get Robbed is Dover, at Customs and Its my Time they rob me of.
4 hours to search my van due to it been " rather large for one and nothing to declare". I am a Pensioner who lost his partner several years ago, and now preferre my own company. I always overnight at a laybye just outside the port which is also frequented by imigrants, waiting for a lift into Britain. So I suppose I bring it on myself, but hey, Sod em. I am a free spirit and I will go where I want. Do agree with others statements. Be aware of what and who is around you. If you dont feel comfortable, move on. Stay safe and enjoy. 

Don


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## fromspain (Jun 28, 2010)

*I wish I could change your mind about Spain*

I've been wildcamping around Spain since we bought our first motorhome six years ago. I have never had a problem in Spain but we never wildcamp near a big city. We use to go to the country areas and we never stopover in a motorway rest area. We apply the same rules when we travel abroad.

The only time someone tried to open our motorhome was while we were sleeping in a motorway area in Mullhouse (France). First time we ignored the rules, first time someone tried to rob us. Fortunately, the alarm and the system we installed inside the cabine doors prevented the thieves from breaking into our motorhome.

This summer I am travelling to England. I've been in your country several times, I've always stayed at a hotel, B&B or a friend's house. This is our first time to go to England in our motorhome, I can't help feeling nervous but I'm sure everything is going to be OK.

The security feeling is a subjective sense and you have to travel wherever you feel secure. I hope that it helps you to change your mind and to see you soon in Spain again.


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## defitzi (Jun 28, 2010)

*excluded*



***** said:


> Spain is a lovely country and the Spanish are nice people.
> That was my experience when I was International trucking and I have had a couple of holidays on mainland Spain driving to the Galicia area.
> I much prefer the Atlantic coast and the further west that you go the quieter and less tourists.
> I also very much like the Basque area.
> ...


 yes *****... lots of 'em about 
 But I wonder- are savoury ones  sweet?...ah...keep on trucking mate


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2010)

defitzi said:


> yes *****... lots of 'em about
> But I wonder- are savoury ones  sweet?...ah...keep on trucking mate



Hi defitzi, were off in less than 2 weeks and might just go there 
I hope the savoury ones are wearing little bikini's


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## TrevorandRachel (Jun 28, 2010)

*Theives in Spain*

I too love Spain & the `happy go lucky spainiards`, have spent time on Costa Brava,but went down just outside Barcelonia to Matero, we only left the motorhome, all locked for 20mins for a walk around the Marina, got back & it was `ramsacked`,about £2500 of `stuff` but worse, a dreadful experience ! the Police told us there are gangs who just do this & they have several a day ! When we asked if they couldn`t stop it they just shrugged ! We ve since met others who it`s happened to but only in this area. I`ve been back since,but only to the top end of costa Brava never down as far as Barcelona.Met others on our travels who go right south in Spain but avoid the Barcelona area.  Cheers Trevor & Rachel


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## vwalan (Jun 29, 2010)

mine happened near valencia .but it could be any where . your van is atarget waiting to be robbed every where in the world. some get broken into on their own drive so stop worrying. enjoy life .


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## Deleted member 2636 (Jun 29, 2010)

The regrettable thing is that Motorhomes cost quite a few Sovs to buy - therefore, if you can afford one, you must have a £s,$s or €s and this makes you a worthwhile target for theft
When I had self builds I never had a moments worry about security or theft because it always looked like I was potless.


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## noody (Jun 29, 2010)

fromspain said:


> I've been wildcamping around Spain since we bought our first motorhome six years ago. I have never had a problem in Spain



I and others think this problem is worse than it appears to be because few of the total motorhome visitors to Spain come to the forums. Many from the Uk and northern europe travel south through Spain and Portugal during winter so for the gangs of thieves there is year-round takings with the police doing very little to stop the problem.

Your visit to the UK can be relaxed and whilst we have thieves in the UK who target motorhomes it's an occasional problem rather than a national problem. 

I've noticed that the UK motorhome press do-not report any problems for visitors to Spain or anywhere-else for that matter, that is probably to do with marketing the hobby rather than being responsible to the motorhome-public because we are inundated with gadgets to stop thieves and detect sleeping gas.

TrevorandRachel ? How did your insurers respond to your claim for the £2500 ? Hopefully they paid-up and that is part of the problem, you-would think insurers would respond if this problem is as serious as it appears.


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## TrevorandRachel (Jun 29, 2010)

*Insurance claim!*

We had paid extra on our home insurance to take items in the motorhome,also had travel insurance.When we arrived home we informed both of the incident,our home insurance sent an accessor to visit us,& he made all the lists etc so we didn`t even have forms to fill in !! they sorted the h`day ins out etc & we received a cheque for the full amount ! Cheers T & R


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## noody (Jun 30, 2010)

And whilst that's the happy-ending it should have been, it's part of the problem.

For the police in Spain there is no mounting-annual debt of ineffectual policing, Ok, they mount the occasional sting. I bet that was to pacify the tourists more than to scare the crooks that head to Spain from all over the continent just to pray on motorhome tourists.

Tourism is so solid in Spain and Portugal because of their fine sunny climate that it would take nothing less than terrorism or natural disaster to alter the status-quo so the police just shrug and tourists have to accept the inevitable.

I would love to go to Spain, everything about Spain sounds good though I can't imagine being happy waiting for the inevitable.

One more question, this is a wild-camping forum. Is the problem more to do with those that are wild camping than purely a problem for motorhome tourists ?


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## Deleted member 2636 (Jun 30, 2010)

noody said:


> I would love to go to Spain, everything about Spain sounds good though I can't imagine being happy waiting for the inevitable.
> 
> One more question, this is a wild-camping forum. Is the problem more to do with those that are wild camping than purely a problem for motorhome tourists ?



Motorhome tourists: You have a big expensive vehicle and the thieves know that you will have all your playthings with you

Campsites tend to be better controlled

As everyone who does "wildcamp" on here says "If you feel uncomfortable; move on"

There are certain areas that are more prone to trouble than others: Some have deservedly bad reputation

The Spanish Police are no worse than many other countries and may actually be a lot better than some I could think of.


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