# One way of possibly avoiding Shenegen 90 day ruling.



## Harleyboygaz3 (May 26, 2020)

I was reading several posts lately of members trying to get there head round the Shenegen 90 day ruling and thought it would be an idea to post this. Unfortunately ,we now have to move back to the UK for business related issues.We have in the Algarve ,near Tavira a family villa which has a separate annex  which we are now looking to rent out. We also have a Portuguese registered Hymer S700 which we are looking to sell . I was thinking that  if any interested party came here and rented the small annex for a small monthly rent they could possibly also buy our van and not have the problem of having a UK/foreign registered vehicle here,which are only allowed legally in the country for 6 months. It is reasonably easy to get 5 year residency for €15 from the local Town hall as you would have the annex address. This however would need to be done before the end of December I think which is end of transitioning period for Brexit. You would then really need to apply for PT. driving licence in Faro again before end December . Then you would be free to wander round Europe without restrictions having Tavira as a base  and a nice site to store the van next to the Annex.
This was our plan when we moved back again here 3 years ago, we did some travelling round central Portugal and end of last year we toured Morocco which was great, it only took 8 hours from Tavira to Tangier! We covered over 3,500 kms and the van didn’t miss a beat!
Anyway, just a thought, might well suit someone?if anyone interested just give me a PM. Cheers...


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## iampatman (May 26, 2020)

Just a couple of things here. Are you sure that residential status in Portugal (rather than citizenship) allows you to travel freely throughout the Shengen area if you are a UK citizen? Might there be some issues accessing Portuguese/Eu health & medical services? Might there be some personal (income tax) issues?

Pat


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## Harleyboygaz3 (May 26, 2020)

I am pretty sure we can travel freely throughout Shenegen countries seeing’s we have residential status and Portuguese drivers licence. Health and medical services here no problem. Personal tax issues depends on you personal situation there is an agreement between Uk and Pt regarding tax matters. 

Gary


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## Snapster (May 26, 2020)

I’m sure, as a UK passport holder, you will be subject to the 90 day limit, wherever you live.


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## Harleyboygaz3 (May 26, 2020)

Thank you Pat and Snapster for bringing this up, was something I was pretty sure would have been ok.. If anyone is 100% sure of this then I better ask Phil to delete this post. Have just put the Hymer on our local sale site and have already someone interested which is encouraging however the annex is still up for grabs!!


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## Kontiki (May 29, 2020)

I would assume the 90 period is done based on your passport when you enter the EU to when you leave.


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## colinm (May 29, 2020)

This is something a interested party should carefully look into, but as I posted on another thread, it appears that a residents permit gives the same or similar rights to a long term visa, IF, this is correct it will give access to Schengen similar to that of EU citizen.


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## Snapster (May 29, 2020)

A lot of us would be interested if this were correct. Do you have any definitive links that confirm that information?


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## colinm (May 29, 2020)

I did post a link some time back, can't seem to search my own posts. Whatever, it's just a case of googling terms such as 'residents permits' until you find a link.


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## Snapster (May 30, 2020)

I did the search and found the relevant posts both from you and I and others but it just brought me back to square one. I really can’t find anything that definitively states that a U.K. passport holder living in a Schengen zone country with a residence permit within the zone can visit another Schengen zone country for longer than the normal 90 days in 180. 
I thought I had found it with a Schengen zone category D national visa, but that still seems to limit you to 90 days. 
Unless anyone else can interpret it differently.


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## jagmanx (May 30, 2020)

Snapster said:


> I did the search and found the relevant posts both from you and I and others but it just brought me back to square one. I really can’t find anything that definitively states that a U.K. passport holder living in a Schengen zone country with a residence permit within the zone can visit another Schengen zone country for longer than the normal 90 days in 180.
> I thought I had found it with a Schengen zone category D national visa, but that still seems to limit you to 90 days.
> Unless anyone else can interpret it differently.


That may well be true @Snapster 
But with residence in Portugal I would anticipate no limit within Portugal (or UK)  Thus Jaunts to Spain or France would be limited but managed carefully should work The big problem with most being "Mid-winter" but stay in Portugal for 3 months (which may not suit all) 
Thus Sept Oct Nov in Europe 
Dec Jan Feb PORTUGAL then can start counting again in Shengen Europe
Better to  keep 1 month spare from the autumn if you fancy Morocco and so need Spain to get there !


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## REC (May 30, 2020)

Below is the link to relevant rules. But even then it is really still open to interpretation either
Residency gives one free movement in Schengen area
Or 90 day rule applies outside the country of residence, but can stay as long as you like in residency.
Practically, it is likely that once you are there the lack of any other border checks (only France check currently from Uk)  will mean you can travel in other areas but it may be again at the rules. Which are open to question.
Either way, it would certainly be easier with a residence than without!





__





						EUR-Lex - 32016R0399 - EN - EUR-Lex
					






					eur-lex.europa.eu


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## Geraldine (May 30, 2020)

Doesn't  the address in Portugal have to be your main address of residence for local tax reasons,etc 
No problem if you have a European passport ( Irish,etc  ) but if you have a uk one you may come unstuck.
Holiday home, second home,etc
I have second generation Irish friends born here uk,who have lived and worked all their lives here. They both got Irish passports own property in Spain so free to come and go as they please.
Perhaps you would be better to advertises for someone from Ireland or a country like that who is part of the European Union. Cheers.


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## Pauljenny (May 30, 2020)

Good luck Gary .
If only there was a simple answer..
The Irish connection looks possible..?
Have you tried posting this on the Motorhomer site.
?


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## Pauljenny (May 30, 2020)

Just a further thought, Gary..
Is it worth you joining the Irish , Motorhome Craic , website. ?
That should give you a forum to explore this idea further.
Talk soon.?


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## alwaysared (May 30, 2020)

> Portugal’s government has taken a decision to open a dedicated ‘UK Passports’ channel at airports in Portugal’s mainland, Madeira and the Açores to enable UK passport holders to pass through airports as quickly as possible.
> 
> The EU will add the UK to the list of countries that do not need to apply for visas to enter the EU for travel, which means that travellers will be free to come and go, to and from the UK without the ‘90 days in every 180 days’ restriction.
> 
> UK citizens resident in Portugal will still be allowed to travel throughout the EU using their Portuguese residency. They will be travelling as Portuguese residents and not as UK passport holders and therefore free movement within the EU will continue. It is not clear how this will work for residents who only have their initial residency certificate, as there is no photo, signature, fingerprint or passport details recorded on that document. afpop has asked SEF for clarification about this.



The above was taken from the Portuguese Chamber of Commerce in the UK website

Regards,
Del


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## Harleyboygaz3 (May 30, 2020)

Pauljenny said:


> Good luck Gary .
> If only there was a simple answer..
> The Irish connection looks possible..?
> Have you tried posting this on the Motorhomer site.
> ?


Cheers Paul. As you and I know , NOTHING is ever simple, especially here in Portugal!!


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## Harleyboygaz3 (May 30, 2020)

Pauljenny said:


> Just a further thought, Gary..
> Is it worth you joining the Irish , Motorhome Craic , website. ?
> That should give you a forum to explore this idea further.
> Talk soon.?


I may well do that, Paul. Think it may only be the annex to let now as I have been inundated with interest with the sale of the “Faithful Hymer Old Timer”. Someone will be getting a good old bus that’s not even run in yet...


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## jagmanx (May 30, 2020)

Pleased to read that with an enforced sale you may get a decent price !
As we winter outside Europe your solution is of no interest to us..but it way well work for someone !
Ps we also do not use our vehicle in the winter !


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## jagmanx (May 31, 2020)

alwaysared said:


> The above was taken from the Portuguese Chamber of Commerce in the UK website
> 
> Regards,
> Del


I do hope that becomes reality for EU not just Portugal.
I appreciate it will be a lifeline for many.
Not being selfish but not essential for us BUT Very Very good
We hope visit Scandinavia again (maybe 2021 2022) We drive via Calais and would like this as a rough timetable
Early May  Leave UK 2 weeks to drive to  Malmo  5 weeks driving North in Sweden to say Kiruna
Then to Narvik 6 Weeks going South in Norway  the 3 weeks returning to Calais
Thus 16 weeks or nearly 4 months.
Quite possible to trim down to 90 days but why if we do not need to.
Lets wait and see and hope BUT.......


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## alwaysared (May 31, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> I do hope that becomes reality for EU not just Portugal.



I hope so too and this paragraph seems to suggest that:



> The *EU* will add the UK to the list of countries that do not need to apply for visas to enter the EU for travel, which means that travellers will be free to come and go, to and from the UK without the ‘90 days in every 180 days’ restriction.



Of course it will only be for visiting not working, a visa will stlll be required to work.

Regards,
Del


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## REC (May 31, 2020)

alwaysared said:


> I hope so too and this paragraph seems to suggest that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am a little concerned at the Portuguese declaration that the *EU* will add UK to list  , not all the EU are saying this...Hope it is right and not just " lost in translation " .


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## witzend (Jun 1, 2020)

Pauljenny said:


> Just a further thought, Gary..
> Is it worth you joining the Irish , Motorhome Craic , website. ?
> That should give you a forum to explore this idea further.
> Talk soon.?


Don,t expect they,ll be very helpful they where very anti this on a thread a few mths ago


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## Harleyboygaz3 (Jun 2, 2020)

Van now sold, a bit of a sad day for us but will be getting another “Old Timer “ when we eventually return to Uk. Couldn’t believe the amount of interest,could have sold it 3 times over!


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