# 1970s bylaw used to ban camping in lake District.



## Mobilvetta (Jul 25, 2020)

Just seen this blog from someone who was sleeping in there motorhome in a layby in the lake District national park yesterday, apparently the lake District national park authority along with the police are now enforcing a no camping bylaw that was introduced in 1970 but has never been enforced before.

 It seems the police officers from 4.00pm were going around moving camper vans off, this man was woken up at 11.30 pm and given the option to move or face a £500 fine, it has been brought about by campers who have been littering the lake District with there tents and human waste. Shame as I love the lake District, I am Lucy enough to have a use of a boat berthed in Windermere to be able to stop in that.

Here is the link to the blogg were he has actually recorded the conversation with the police officer. 





I would be interested if any members could dig up this bylaw back from the 1970s or could suggest how you would go about it, seems again people who are self contained in there motorhomes are been penalised.


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## mistericeman (Jul 25, 2020)

Bylaw 10 in access section.... 









						Byelaws
					

A list of byelaws in the National Park.




					www.lakedistrict.gov.uk


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## colinm (Jul 25, 2020)

AFAIK all national parks have similar if not same, and it is enforced if anyone complains.


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## runnach (Jul 25, 2020)

I am slightly concerned he was moved on but the policeman didn’t quote the specific bylaw,,,,,other authorities will be taking note, start of a slippery slope,,,,for some sectors of the travelling communities being moved on is a regular occurrence so we perhaps shouldn’t be to surprised


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## 2cv (Jul 25, 2020)

I find that quite shocking. When the Loch Lomond park authorities attempted to stop all camping or occupying vehicles overnight it proved to be the case that they had no juristiction over the roads and laybys away from private land. See the q and a about staying in laybys. Maybe if the police moved on people in a layby they were exceeding their powers.


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## mistericeman (Jul 25, 2020)

2cv said:


> I find that quite shocking. When the Loch Lomond park authorities attempted to stop all camping or occupying vehicles overnight it proved to be the case that they had no juristiction over the roads and laybys away from private land. See the q and a about staying in laybys. Maybe if the police moved on people in a layby they were exceeding their powers.



Possibly different laws for Scotland?


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## 2cv (Jul 25, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> Possibly different laws for Scotland?



That may well be the case, however it may be that the national parks have no powers over the roads within them.


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## tidewatcher (Jul 25, 2020)

Unfortunately the misuse of camper vans in some areas plus the constant problem with travellers complicates the way authorities can enforce acceptable motorhome use while protecting communities from travellers taking over public areas. Where I live an area which was designated for overnight camper vans was recently lost due to some misuse, mostly inconsiderate parking and use of awnings and chairs outside. Unfortunately while trying to get this area reinstated it has now been taken over by travellers, also using very upmarket camper vans and caravans. To the public it Is hard to distinguish on first sight the difference. The easy answer for the council is a height barrier, this has not yet happened but you can see their logic.


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## Wooie1958 (Jul 25, 2020)

We are our own worst enemy.


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## 2cv (Jul 25, 2020)

BBC report.


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## Val54 (Jul 25, 2020)

2cv said:


> I find that quite shocking. When the Loch Lomond park authorities attempted to stop all camping or occupying vehicles overnight it proved to be the case that they had no juristiction over the roads and laybys away from private land. See the q and a about staying in laybys. Maybe if the police moved on people in a layby they were exceeding their powers.


I think if you dig deep enough you will find that all National Parks have such a restriction in place as do the NP’s in France etc


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## runnach (Jul 25, 2020)

tidewatcher said:


> Unfortunately the misuse of camper vans in some areas plus the constant problem with travellers complicates the way authorities can enforce acceptable motorhome use while protecting communities from travellers taking over public areas. Where I live an area which was designated for overnight camper vans was recently lost due to some misuse, mostly inconsiderate parking and use of awnings and chairs outside. Unfortunately while trying to get this area reinstated it has now been taken over by travellers, also using very upmarket camper vans and caravans. To the public it Is hard to distinguish on first sight the difference. The easy answer for the council is a height barrier, this has not yet happened but you can see their logic.


For all intents and purposes there is NO difference between ourselves and travellers a vehicle is being used for occupation whether that be day or night. If charged you may be bailed on the fact you can offer a residential addresss.that is the only difference ( full timers dont enjoy that benefit)

Whether it is a legacy of covid 19 for the recent heavy enforcement the travelling community are often moved on, many not all,form travelling groups safety in numbers but proposed legislation will class more than two vans together a 
gathering.

There is a constant banging of the drum by fisherman we somehow distance our group,whilst I understand the sentiment not sure how, the way things are unfolding there is a stronger argument that all outdoor recreational users band together to stop this steam rolling of a pastime in our instance.

Economically as more and more lose jobs, can’t pay rent and mortgages more people will live on the road placing even more pressure on finite resources

Start of a slippery slope


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## Debroos (Jul 25, 2020)

I wonder what would happen if you said you had pulled over because you were exhausted. Surely to move someone on who was in that position would not be allowed....


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## winks (Jul 25, 2020)

Indicative of a deeper malady in my opinion.

I am fortunate in that I was born and brought up on the southern edge of the Lake District and spent day after day cycling, walking and camping within 20 miles of home.There used to be public transport then which was reliable and cheap. I could leave home and get to Grasmere by bus for not long after 08.30 and cheaply enough to do it on milk round money. LDNPA is a double edged sword as most of these organisations tend to be, providing an armature for the would be managers of all things to build themselves a career, same applies to the NT. Even such worthy organisations as YHA are fully infected with this corporate bollox. Add in the very expensive charges for camp sites and the creeping gentrifications of big money second home buyers and there is the perfect storm against which people will struggle to have any free space.

No doubt, we are living in interesting times. Got to wonder though, why the heavy handed approach? Surely an instruction to move on in the morning and a record of registration number is enough for anyone. Here's an idea. How about getting Mike, Miranda et al out of their cosy offices at Ambleside and Grasmere to assist the wild men of the woods in clearing up the mess? Thought not, meetings and forms to be attended to ...Oh and someone needs to enforce those parking charges, of course.

Cheers

H


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## 2cv (Jul 25, 2020)

As far as roads and laybys go they may not have the right to impose their bylaw.


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## Val54 (Jul 25, 2020)

The bylaw can't apply to Crown Land, ie the highway, but from memory there isn't a properly formed layby within the highway running alongside Butttermere. There are a couple of places where the verge has been eroded and people stop there. I doubt that is highway and in any event the bylaw is a blanket cover of the NP including roadside verges. Still heavy handed though, having taken the vehicle reg it would have been easy to check movements the following morning and issue a fine if still there.


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## colinm (Jul 25, 2020)

The thing is the story has now got around the country, and people will now think twice before parking up in the lake district, like it or not, job done.


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## Fisherman (Jul 25, 2020)

We really need to take a long hard look at ourselves in this country.
I have twice booked campsites in the Lake District and had to do so six months in advance. And they were expensive at around £35 a night.
The culprits should have been dealt with who behave like sick animals destroying wonderful countryside. But instead people who value the countryside and who behave properly are threatened with £500 fines 30 minutes before midnight.
What’s required here is some joined up thinking, not rash severely punitive treatment of reasonable people. But yet again it’s the big hammer instead of reason that’s used. A £500 fine is less than what some  people receive  for far more serious crimes.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 25, 2020)

Like it or not, it's going to be a long long time before things settle down again. It might be back to asking farmers for permission to use a field corner, like people used to. I've done it in the past with a tent.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 25, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> We really need to take a long hard look at ourselves in this country.
> I have twice booked campsites in the Lake District and had to do so six months in advance. And they were expensive at around £35 a night.
> The culprits should have been dealt with who behave like sick animals destroying wonderful countryside. But instead people who value the countryside and who behave properly are threatened with £500 fines 30 minutes before midnight.
> What’s required here is some joined up thinking, not rash severely punitive treatment of reasonable people. But yet again it’s the big hammer instead of reason that’s used. A £500 fine is less than what people get for far more serious crimes.


And how many land owners have had permission to change use of land for camping refused?. I know 2 in the Lakedistrict. So here we are, with limited sites that cost a fortune.


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## Fisherman (Jul 25, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> Like it or not, it's going to be a long long time before things settle down again. It might be back to asking farmers for permission to use a field corner, like people used to. I've done it in the past with a tent.



It’s not about liking or disliking.
Its about proportionality and reasonable action for any infringement of vague unused laws from 50 years ago. This to me is a serious breech of people’s rights, combined with punishments fit for the Middle Ages. If you were caught shoplifting I doubt if such a punishment would be fished out. Speeding motorists or those caught on mobile phones receive a fine of £100, yet for parking up here £500 fines are deemed appropriate, shocking and disproportionate.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 25, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> It’s not about liking or disliking.
> Its about proportionality and reasonable action for any infringement of vague unused laws from 50 years ago. This to me is a serious breech of people’s rights, combined with punishments fit for the Middle Ages. If you were caught shoplifting I doubt if such a punishment would be fished out. Speeding motorists or those caught on mobile phones receive a fine of £100, yet for parking up here £500 fines are deemed appropriate, shocking and disproportionate.


£500 is the maximum fine. I doubt you would recieve one anywhere near that.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 25, 2020)

Of course the other angle is we've been breaching and ignoring byelaws that are still in operation today. I feel it will all quieten down in a few years, as long as we don't go back to parking in groups, parking within sight of peoples homes and Taking the piss by getting chairs and tables out.


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## Moped (Jul 25, 2020)

The police can easily and quickly distinguish between a “traveller” and a genuine motorhome tourist. They can very easily check the registered address of the vehicle. If parked on the highway, which includes any verges up to and including a fence or boundary line, and there are no local signposted parking restrictions, then the only real reason you can be asked to move on by the police is if you are causing an obstruction.

As for local bylaws the police do have powers to enforce these, but surely only in regard to land off the highway. Can a bylaw apply to national highways?

And what are the highways within a national park considered to be and who are they owned by?


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## Val54 (Jul 25, 2020)

Moped said:


> The police can easily and quickly distinguish between a “traveller” and a genuine motorhome tourist. They can very easily check the registered address of the vehicle. If parked on the highway, which includes any verges up to and including a fence or boundary line, and there are no local signposted parking restrictions, then the only real reason you can be asked to move on by the police is if you are causing an obstruction.
> 
> If you are parked on private land, such as that of a national park, then surely it is a civil matter, not a criminal matter, and the police should not be involved. They would only normally be present if there is a potential for a criminal act such as assault.
> 
> Maybe I am wrong of course?


Mmmmm, and why should the police want to distinguish between a "traveller" and a genuine motorhome tourist if they are both parked up in the same layby. The highway boundary can be anywhere between the edge of the tarmac and the adjoining land, it doesn't necessarily include anything beyond the tarmac. Another urban (or rural) myth. The Police aren't precluded from other duties such as assisting the national park wardens; clearly there was a decision to have a blitz and not enough wardens/rangers to cover the ground. Its hardly surprising given what has been happening.


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## izwozral (Jul 25, 2020)

If the chap in the video had told the police that he would stay but will not be sleeping, he in fact would watch tv or read, could the police then move him on?

The chap in effect will just be parking on the layby which as far as I know is not limited to daytime use.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 25, 2020)

This has echos to me of the Right to Roam law, except, instead of access to land, we are now facing a modern day argument where we are being specifically prevented from using the *public* highways and byways that we all pay for as motorised vehicle owners, imho. With emphasis on the word 'public' as we're not even asking for the right of access to private land, merely to be able to use what already belongs to us all.

Here's an extract about the Right to Roam from Wikipedia to give you a sense of what I'm trying to say.

*United Kingdom*

In the United Kingdom, outside Scotland, access to much uncultivated and unenclosed land was restricted prior the enactment of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000. Access to land in England and Wales is still more limited than in most of Northern Europe, and some other European countries, while access is very limited in Northern Ireland. Property was formerly protected in England and Wales mostly to preserve the landowner's hunting or fishing rights. The Ramblers' Association, which works to increase the rights of walkers in the United Kingdom, was a driving force behind this legislation.

*England and Wales*

In England and Wales, after a polarised debate about the merits, rights and benefits of private landowners and public recreation, in 2000 the Government legislated to introduce a limited _right to roam_, without compensation for landowners. The Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (CROW) was gradually implemented from 2000 onwards to give the general public the conditional right to walk in certain areas of the English and Welsh countryside: principally downland, moorland, heathland and coastal land.[28] Forests and woodlands are excluded, other than publicly owned forests, which have a similar right of access by virtue of a voluntary dedication made by the Forestry Commission. Developed land, gardens and certain other areas are specifically excluded from the right of access. Agricultural land is accessible if it falls within one of the categories described above. People exercising the right of access have certain duties to respect other people's rights to manage the land, and to protect nature.

The new rights were introduced region by region through England and Wales, with completion in 2005. Maps showing accessible areas have been produced. Traditionally the public could walk on established public footpaths and bridleways, on common land and on the foreshore, and land owners could prevent access to other areas (or charge a fee for access).

Angling interests successfully lobbied for the exclusion of rivers in England and Wales from CROW, leaving other river users such as swimmers and canoeists with access restricted to less than 2% of navigable water. The British Canoe Union is running the Rivers Access Campaign, to highlight the level of restrictions the public face in gaining access to inland waterways in England and Wales.

Much of the Dartmoor National Park has been designated as 'Access Land', although it remains privately owned, since the Dartmoor Commons Act 1985, with no restrictions on where walkers can roam.[29] Because of the 1985 Act, Dartmoor was largely unaffected by the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000, which established similar rights in other rural parts of the country, but in 2006, this Act opened up much of the remaining restricted land to walkers.

*Scotland*

In Scotland the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 comprehensively codified into Scots law the ancient tradition of the right to universal access to the land in Scotland. The act specifically establishes a right to be on land for recreational, educational and certain other purposes and a right to cross land. The rights exist only if they are exercised responsibly, as specified in the Scottish Outdoor Access Code.

Access rights apply to any non-motorised activities, including walking, cycling, horse-riding and wild camping. They also allow access on inland water for canoeing, rowing, sailing and swimming. The rights confirmed in the Scottish legislation are greater than the limited rights of access created in England and Wales by the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (CRoW).[30]


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## Val54 (Jul 25, 2020)

izwozral said:


> If the chap in the video had told the police that he would stay but will not be sleeping, he in fact would watch tv or read, could the police then move him on?
> 
> The chap in effect will just be parking on the layby which as far as I know is not limited to daytime use.


I don't think he was in a highway layby (as in something adopted and maintained as highway by the local council). So probably private land and the bylaw does prevent simple occupation of a vehicle overnight. Doesn't matter if he didn't intend to sleep.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 25, 2020)

Moped said:


> The police can easily and quickly distinguish between a “traveller” and a genuine motorhome tourist. They can very easily check the registered address of the vehicle. If parked on the highway, which includes any verges up to and including a fence or boundary line, and there are no local signposted parking restrictions, then the only real reason you can be asked to move on by the police is if you are causing an obstruction.
> 
> As for local bylaws the police do have powers to enforce these, but surely only in regard to land off the highway. Can a bylaw apply to national highways?
> 
> And what are the highways within a national park considered to be and who are they owned by?


Roads are owned by the local Council. Land at the side of the road will be owned by someone else. National Parks Authority. I believe?


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## Fisherman (Jul 25, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> £500 is the maximum fine. I doubt you would recieve one anywhere near that.



That’s not was posted. The post stated stay and receive a £500 fine or leave.
I can only go on what was posted.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 25, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> That’s not was posted. The post stated stay and receive a £500 fine or leave.
> I can only go on what was posted.


Point taken. Larger fines usually have to go through Court. So spot fines were introduced to allow police to dish these out, which is what would probably happen. I think the police officer dealt with the Guy fairly. Mentioning the £500 fine is obviously done to reinforce the deterrent and they know word will get around and hopefully resolve what is becoming a problem. Sadly genuinely responsible people are now caught up in this as well.


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## mistericeman (Jul 25, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> That’s not was posted. The post stated stay and receive a £500 fine or leave.
> I can only go on what was posted.



There's is very often a 'maximim' amount that can be levied... 

Reduced by a significant amount if paid promptly for fixed penalty (it's not a fine.... Fines AFAIK can only be issued by a court... 
And PCN penalty charge notices, side step the court process)


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## Gus the bus (Jul 25, 2020)

I would like to know where they find the man/woman power to enforce this. Our local Post Office Cashpoint was ram raided in the early hours of the morning . Police took FIVE HOURS to respond.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 25, 2020)

Gus the bus said:


> I would like to know where they find the man/woman power to enforce this. Our local Post Office Cashpoint was ram raided in the early hours of the morning . Police took FIVE HOURS to respond.


You might find one or a few Councillors behind this. Natural England have pretty big gobs as well.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 25, 2020)

Gus the bus said:


> I would like to know where they find the man/woman power to enforce this. Our local Post Office Cashpoint was ram raided in the early hours of the morning . Police took FIVE HOURS to respond.



I don't know where you are based, Gus, but this is the Lake District where it seems they've been having similar problems to other tourist honey spots around the UK - Cornwall and the South West, Wales and Scotland, for example - with people arriving and throughly abusing the location/countryside (but not necessarily in campervans). I imagine they are only responding to requests for help with the problem from the National Park Authority.

Unfortunately it seems they may be taking a more heavy-handed approach than they would have done pre-covid.


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## Concept (Jul 26, 2020)

How could the police move you on from 4pm. The bylaw states "overnight"? Surely that would be to be proved.......


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## Tony Lee (Jul 26, 2020)

You think you are hard done by. 
When I was helping out on iOverlander, one of my goals was to get rid of the thousands of unauthorised camping spots that people had been adding over the years. 
Of particular concern were entries in national parks where pretty much the world over, camping is only allowed in designated areas. 

I got an email from Canadian authorities stating



"Hello iOverlander.com, 
There is NO FREE CAMPING in Banff National Park. All campers must spend the night in a DESIGNATED campground. People found camping along roadways, in parking lots, in the bush, on the streets in town, or any other area outside a campground, whether or not the area is signed with 'No Camping', are committing an offence and may be charged. This includes an automatic, required court appearance, where a fine of up to 25,000$ may be assessed. Please remove all undesignated camping places from your website for the vicinity of Banff National Park, Alberta, Canada. 
Warden, Banff National Park"

And a similar request from the head ranger for the San Francisco area, and several similar pleas from local groups in various places in South America. 

There was no point in completely removing them because they would just reappear when the next intrepid overlander discovered their perfect wild camp, so I replaced the descriptions with the official warnings and that seemed to do the trick


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## GWAYGWAY (Jul 26, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> Roads are owned by the local Council. Land at the side of the road will be owned by someone else. National Parks Authority. I believe?


I understood the parks authority are an umbrella organisation that owns nothing or very little, but can control what the owners are allowed to do ,over and above the powers of the council planners. Basically a quango to control, The government made the South Downs Park and the 'authority just had control ove what was done there, no ownership of anything. Just another control over those that live there.


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## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

This has really got my dander up.   The copper states they have been having problems with yobs in tents making a mess.  Oh really! so go and move on some respectable bloke on his own in a tidy little campervan quietly parked up for the night and traumatise a family next door doing the same.  ****! I wonder how many groups of morons in tents they did the same to that night. None I suspect.

I know that spot well and all the others along Crummock water to Buttermere.   We have had similar issues with morons here since the restrictions were lifted but this is just fcuking ridiculous!   Target the morons, not those that are peacefully parking up in a remote spot for the night.  Chances are if he had knocked on my door I would have been full of Vino anyway. Is he going to make me drive home then?

Someone on the comments of the youtube video said Lake District national park only owns about 4% of the land which I find very hard to believe but it might be worth looking into. I would love for someone to find a loophole in this.  Meanwhile I will visit the lakes for a day as I only live 45 minutes from Ullswater but I wont bother going there in the van spending money if this is their attitude.


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## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

Bloody hell! Its true. National Park only owns 4 percent of the lake district.

"
*Who owns National Parks?*
Our model for running a national park is not based on public ownership and people are often surprised to learn *the National Park Authority owns less than four per cent of land in the Lake District. T*he rest is owned by organisations such as the National Trust, United Utilities, Forestry Commission and other private landowners."









						History of the National Park
					

What, where, who and how UK National Parks came into existence.




					www.lakedistrict.gov.uk
				



.

The copper clearly states that the bylaw comes from the National Parks Authority so the question is, was this guy parked on their land or not?  Which bits come under their authority then? 

Some investigative work required here I think.


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## winks (Jul 26, 2020)

I love that expression “Got my dander up “ . Fawlty Towers comedy gold. 

Cheers 

H


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## Jeff G (Jul 26, 2020)

Doesn't the guy say 'gander up' in FT ? Either way ,as you say,comedy gold


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## Fazerloz (Jul 26, 2020)

Personally i think this is the Police working beyond their actual powers which is not unheard of and relying on the threat of a fine/PCN or issuing the fine/PCN and people paying and not challenging the fine/PCN.  Surely these are Civil infringements and should not be enforced by the Police.


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## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

LOL! I Was watching Fawlty Towers last night. Must have been where it came from!

I have just emailed the Lake District National park asking for more info on this bylaw and how they can enforce it when they only own four percent of the land.

Found this re wildcamping in the National Park









						Wild camping
					

Wild camping is not permitted anywhere in the Lake District without prior permission from the landowner. As the National Park Authority we do not have the power to allow camping on private land and we do not permit camping on the small amount of land that we own. Camping in car parks or on...




					www.lakedistrict.gov.uk
				




It states this.

" Wild camping is not permitted anywhere in the Lake District without prior permission from the landowner. *As the National Park Authority we do not have the power to allow camping on private land *and we do not permit camping on the small amount of land that we own. Camping in car parks or on roadside verges is not allowed at any time. "

So can you assume then if they do not have the power to allow wild camping on private land they also do not have any power at all over that land?

Will be interesting to see if I get a reply.   I was fairly sympathetic as there clearly is a problem with morons but they are targeting the wrong people.


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## jagmanx (Jul 26, 2020)

Jeff G said:


> Doesn't the guy say 'gander up' in FT ? Either way ,as you say,comedy gold


What is sauce for the Gander/Dander..
Is Orange for the Duck/Guck

I want to fly to Newfoundland but cannot go to Gander
Now that has got my Dander up !
Maybe tyr Goose Bay ? or Rhoose Airport !


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## colinm (Jul 26, 2020)

You can rant and rave as much as you want at the NPA, they will consider you just a minor irritation compared to the grievances the land and house owners have compared to those living outside the NP.


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## Val54 (Jul 26, 2020)

The NPA's were created to protect the environment and just like any local authority, they don't have to own the land to exercise the powers granted to them by an Act of Parliament, the land just has to be within their designated boundary. So it doesn't matter whether they or the National Trust or a private individual owns the land, the bylaws apply just the same. As for Police involvement, as in Wales, the NPA's asked for assistance as they hadn't got the manpower to deal with the problems. I don't think the Police are precluded from helping a local authority whether it starts as a potential civil matter or not, I'm sure the local residents are quite happy for them to be involved.


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> This has really got my dander up.   The copper states they have been having problems with yobs in tents making a mess.  Oh really! so go and move on some respectable bloke on his own in a tidy little campervan quietly parked up for the night and traumatise a family next door doing the same.  ****! I wonder how many groups of morons in tents they did the same to that night. None I suspect.
> 
> I know that spot well and all the others along Crummock water to Buttermere.   We have had similar issues with morons here since the restrictions were lifted but this is just fcuking ridiculous!   Target the morons, not those that are peacefully parking up in a remote spot for the night.  Chances are if he had knocked on my door I would have been full of Vino anyway. Is he going to make me drive home then?
> 
> Someone on the comments of the youtube video said Lake District national park only owns about 4% of the land which I find very hard to believe but it might be worth looking into. I would love for someone to find a loophole in this.  Meanwhile I will visit the lakes for a day as I only live 45 minutes from Ullswater but I wont bother going there in the van spending money if this is their attitude.





I wouldnt even bother visiting for a day.If youre not welcome then Fcuk em.All the tourist businesses will loose out if everyone didnt bother going there.As you say this is stemming from Yobbos in tents THEY are the ones needing a kick up the Ass!


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> Personally i think this is the Police working beyond their actual powers which is not unheard of and relying on the threat of a fine/PCN or issuing the fine/PCN and people paying and not challenging the fine/PCN.  Surely these are Civil infringements and should not be enforced by the Police.




I agree if these are parked on the Public road layby then its not illegal in any way,but if the Police were to enforce the law then probably a civil case, providing you werent causing an obstruction where you had parked.
So Well who wants to volunteer to park up in The Lake District probably next weekend would be a good test and then challenge the power of the Policeperson who will come banging on your door,any takers?


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## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

mickymost said:


> I wouldnt even bother visiting for a day.If youre not welcome then Fcuk em.All the tourist businesses will loose out if everyone didnt bother going there.As you say this is stemming from Yobbos in tents THEY are the ones needing a kick up the Ass!



Its kind of personal to me though.  The Lakes has always been a second home to me.  I had boats there for years both on Windermere and Ullswater. I had a lot of friends there with businesses and I must have put tens of thousands of pounds into the economy over the years.  I am torn as dont want to see these businesses suffer but when I see stuff like this it just makes me furious.  Its like when they put the speed limit on Windermere. It knocked a lot of business owners around the lake for six.  Nobody wanted it and it was totally unnecessary to apply it to the whole lake.  This is the fecking same!  Just needs a bit of common sense.  On what planet is it ok to send the police up to a remote mountain top pass in the middle of the night to frighten the bejeezas out of families and make them upsticks and get out of the county?

Its a pity the guy in the video didnt just head west a few miles. The National park doesnt stretch much further west of Crummock water I believe. Mind you he probably just thought Feck em!


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## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

mickymost said:


> I agree if these are parked on the Public road layby then its not illegal in any way,but if the Police were to enforce the law then probably a civil case, providing you werent causing an obstruction where you had parked.
> So Well who wants to volunteer to park up in The Lake District probably next weekend would be a good test and then challenge the power of the Policeperson who will come banging on your door,any takers?



According to that wild camping link I posted above from the NPA you cant park on the roadside or laybys either.  That stop over in the video could well be classed as a layby I guess.


----------



## Val54 (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> According to that wild camping link I posted above from the NPA you cant park on the roadside or laybys either.  That stop over in the video could well be classed as a layby I guess.


It certainly doesn't appear to be part of the maintained highway, so could well be within the scope of the bylaw, its just ridiculous and heavy handed that the police didn't just tell him to move off early morning and that they would be checking.


----------



## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

Val54 said:


> It certainly doesn't appear to be part of the maintained highway, so could well be within the scope of the bylaw, its just ridiculous and heavy handed that the police didn't just tell him to move off early morning and that they would be checking.


 

Or better still, just go round early morning when its light.  Or even better just go and do some actual proper police work and tell the NPA to get stuffed.


----------



## mistericeman (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> Or better still, just go round early morning when its light.  Or even better just go and do some actual proper police work and tell the NPA to get stuffed.


Surely it is "Proper police work" when they have been requested to attend. 

The police don't make the laws they only enforce them. 

Obviously the LDNP have been forced into a corner by the actions of the usual selfish bell ends and decided to act with a blanket heavy hand... 
Possibly things will return in time to a blind eye being turned, or possibly it won't.


----------



## antiquesam (Jul 26, 2020)

A little while ago Cumbria said they didn't want visitors but also said the tourist businesses were going broke and called for a Government handout. They can't have it both ways. On my little adventures, when my darling wife permits me to go by myself, I tend to gravitate towards the Lakes, but perhaps they can forgo the pleasure of my money's company next March.


----------



## Fazerloz (Jul 26, 2020)

mistericeman said:


> Surely it is "Proper police work" when they have been requested to attend.
> 
> The police don't make the laws they only enforce them.
> 
> ...



The LDNP might not have been forced into a corner but found this strange moment in time as a ideal opportunity to do something they have wanted to do for a lot of years. Just like other NP areas have and have only now been been able  to get police backing. As for police only enforcing the law stop making me laugh, next you will be telling me they never work outside their remit.


----------



## runnach (Jul 26, 2020)

I guess it boils down to is it proportionate to move people on late at night including a family with children , and was police actions serving the public interest


----------



## mariesnowgoose (Jul 26, 2020)

It's a knee-jerk heavy-handed reaction to a situation that has arisen as a result of C-19.

It makes no sense. It's an overuse of authority and is merely a sticking plaster, doing nothing to address the bad behaviour that has caused this type of policing in the first place.

Using a (bloody lazy!) sledgehammer to crack a nut and, imho, going about resolving the problem totally erse about face.

Businesses are already suffering and will continue to suffer. If we're expected to do our civic duty and get back out there to try and shore up our f*kd economy then they really need to address the problems at source instead of always taking the punitive route - and the wrong type of punitive route at that. All it does is send out a signal that no one is wanted in that locality, whether they're well behaved or not.

They should concentrate less on who's parking up and in what type of vehicle and concentrate first on catching the dirty anti-social and ignorant offenders who turn up in all types of transport and muck it up for everyone else. They should be the ones receiving the £500 fines.


----------



## mariesnowgoose (Jul 26, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> The LDNP might not have been forced into a corner but found this strange moment in time as a ideal opportunity to do something they have wanted to do for a lot of years. Just like other NP areas have and have only now been been able  to get police backing. As for police only enforcing the law stop making me laugh, next you will be telling me they never work outside their remit.



No, they weren't. They were being jobsworths, imho.

Path of least resistance and lazy policing. I think pressure needs to be applied to local authorities and the police to start addressing the actual problematic behaviour that has caused this type of OTT response in the first place.

Or we can just sit back and let the economy suffer even more and not bother going anywhere.


----------



## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> The LDNP might not have been forced into a corner but found this strange moment in time as a ideal opportunity to do something they have wanted to do for a lot of years. Just like other NP areas have and have only now been been able  to get police backing. As for police only enforcing the law stop making me laugh, next you will be telling me they never work outside their remit.



Spot on.  Its not just NP areas by the looks of it.   Its happening everywhere. Its an ideal opportunity for those with a vested interest to outlaw wild camping. Covid and the Covidiots have handed them that on a plate.

They are too dense to realise it will drive people like us that respect the countryside and have plenty of disposable cash to spend away whilst the morons that just want to party will just carry on regardless.  It would be very interesting to see as time goes on the statistics as to who has been fined or moved on.  Civilised motorhomers parked in easy to get to areas will be an easy target for the rozzers.

It just makes my blood boil. When the travel restrictions were lifted we had hordes of morons partying on our beauty spots here and causing havoc.  Did they fine them or turn them around? Nope!  We even had to call the Army in at Richmond Falls but still they were allowed to come and still do everytime its good weather.  But we cant sleep in a van on a remote hill top. ****!    Jeeesaz! Soon as I get a new van Im off to France. feck em!


----------



## mariesnowgoose (Jul 26, 2020)

Unfortunately I concur with your sentiments 100% Barry.

I doubt whether common sense will ever prevail.

Local authorities are generally too slow and beaurocratic to respond with any sensible solutions to the problem in the short to medium term - or even in the longer term! Plus (in my experience) they generally have little understanding of what it's like to actually operate a business in the real world.

And the police have no vested business interests either way.

It's local businesses who will lose out in the long run.


----------



## Fazerloz (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> Spot on.  Its not just NP areas by the looks of it.   Its happening everywhere. Its an ideal opportunity for those with a vested interest to outlaw wild camping. Covid and the Covidiots have handed them that on a plate.
> 
> They are too dense to realise it will drive people like us that respect the countryside and have plenty of disposable cash to spend away whilst the morons that just want to party will just carry on regardless.  It would be very interesting to see as time goes on the statistics as to who has been fined or moved on.  Civilised motorhomers parked in easy to get to areas will be an easy target for the rozzers.
> 
> It just makes my blood boil. When the travel restrictions were lifted we had hordes of morons partying on our beauty spots here and causing havoc.  Did they fine them or turn them around? Nope!  We even had to call the Army in at Richmond Falls but still they were allowed to come and still do everytime its good weather.  But we cant sleep in a van on a remote hill top. ****!    Jeeesaz! Soon as I get a new van Im off to France. feck em!



These days it does't even need to be a prolonged effort by authorities , give a few fines out and move a few along and let social media do the rest of the work.


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## Val54 (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> Spot on.  Its not just NP areas by the looks of it.   Its happening everywhere. Its an ideal opportunity for those with a vested interest to outlaw wild camping. Covid and the Covidiots have handed them that on a plate.
> 
> They are too dense to realise it will drive people like us that respect the countryside and have plenty of disposable cash to spend away whilst the morons that just want to party will just carry on regardless.  It would be very interesting to see as time goes on the statistics as to who has been fined or moved on.  Civilised motorhomers parked in easy to get to areas will be an easy target for the rozzers.
> 
> It just makes my blood boil. When the travel restrictions were lifted we had hordes of morons partying on our beauty spots here and causing havoc.  Did they fine them or turn them around? Nope!  We even had to call the Army in at Richmond Falls but still they were allowed to come and still do everytime its good weather.  But we cant sleep in a van on a remote hill top. ****!    Jeeesaz! Soon as I get a new van Im off to France. feck em!



2021 ferry booked


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## runnach (Jul 26, 2020)

Barry money how much you choose to spend has nothing to do with it, our pastime as well as responsible tenters pastime has been hi jacked by the festival tent / white lightning brigade 

What is happening is nigh on identical to how the New Age traveller brigade were high jacked and tainted for ever.

The NATs came about as legacy from harsh economic times unemployment many adopting vehicle use as to ensure a roof over their heads, because money was tight the idea of free concerts came about, the original ones at Windsor queens back garden there were no issues,,,then the settled lot hijacked with techno and illegal raves in the end NATs unwelcome at Glastonbury even . They became the enemy within and police tactics were used that employed lies and harassment ,,,,the peace convoy ov 86 a good example travellers herded to lay-bys and rebased two vehicles at a time to break their ranks......Stonehenge prevented by the police from attending on foot. Of course the powers behind it wasn’t really the police they were simply commissioned to do the dirty work

The dirty campers have hi jacked , as Fazerloz suggested the authorities are dealing with everyone to remind us of our pecking order blind eyes in the past are in the spotlight,,,,history is repeating itself nothing to do with cash or your social standing


----------



## Nabsim (Jul 26, 2020)

I am just surprised that people on here seem to think the police always obey the law. I posted on here just into lockdown where everyone was told to stay exactly where they were. Police accompanied council officials and moved everyone off the drove with threats of arrest and vehicles (homes) being impounded.
All through that lockdown periods lots of van dwellers have been constantly moved on (illegally) under threat by the police.
If you need any further proof of how much police and councils care about law google battle of the beanfield.
The police as a body will work for the rich don’t think otherwise


----------



## mistericeman (Jul 26, 2020)

channa said:


> Barry money how much you choose to spend has nothing to do with it, our pastime as well as responsible tenters pastime has been hi jacked by the festival tent / white lightning brigade
> 
> What is happening is nigh on identical to how the New Age traveller brigade were high jacked and tainted for ever.
> 
> ...



The rot started with Halfords and Arsegos selling tents.... 

Pre that it was only hardy determined types with a general desire to be outdoors that bothered... 

Sadly now £20 buys you a tent that, is so cheap the idiots don't even care about taking them home after drinking enough to sink a battleship and leaving all their detritus behind.


----------



## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> LOL! I Was watching Fawlty Towers last night. Must have been where it came from!
> 
> I have just emailed the Lake District National park asking for more info on this bylaw and how they can enforce it when they only own four percent of the land.
> 
> ...


When I used to backpack and Wild camp in the Lake district, it was considered acceptable to camp above the last wall or above 1000ft and that is what people did. The National trust and Landowners were happy with this agreement.


----------



## trevskoda (Jul 26, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> I am just surprised that people on here seem to think the police always obey the law. I posted on here just into lockdown where everyone was told to stay exactly where they were. Police accompanied council officials and moved everyone off the drove with threats of arrest and vehicles (homes) being impounded.
> All through that lockdown periods lots of van dwellers have been constantly moved on (illegally) under threat by the police.
> If you need any further proof of how much police and councils care about law google battle of the beanfield.
> The police as a body will work for the rich don’t think otherwise


Correct,police here used to have to much or tried to be like ss storm troopers,20 odd years of troubles and folk getting there rights back was a hard struggle,now police dont bother with minor infringements and get on with proper policing ,councils dont realy bother with folk staying in car parks with signs stating no campervans tents or barbies,in fact some now have tables with seats for having a good day/night out in the open.
Fact is when you restrict or lock folk up they go bonkers to the point of riots shootings and bombs,give them party hats booze and fresh air they settle down.


----------



## runnach (Jul 26, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> I am just surprised that people on here seem to think the police always obey the law. I posted on here just into lockdown where everyone was told to stay exactly where they were. Police accompanied council officials and moved everyone off the drove with threats of arrest and vehicles (homes) being impounded.
> All through that lockdown periods lots of van dwellers have been constantly moved on (illegally) under threat by the police.
> If you need any further proof of how much police and councils care about law google battle of the beanfield.
> The police as a body will work for the rich don’t think otherwise


 Exactly,  I’m not into conspiracy theories as such but uncanny the similarities hence my reference to the New Age traveller types...300 on foot vehicles had been impounded were prevented from attending the solstice at Stonehenge why ? A place for some of legitimate worship , would a trip by foot to Canterbury cathedral attracted the same drama? 

I re iterate for the sake of clarity the police are carrying out the dirty work at the bequest of whom my thoughts would soon see this thread confined to current affairs and that is not my wish

As for legality though the miners at orgreave, travellers prevented from attending Appleby horse fair the tactics employed questionable other than designed to put the rank and file in their place

Some here have made it abundantly clear they have issues with travellers but that is not the point, the point is the oppression of freedom the same as our freedom to enjoy a peaceful pastime is being oppressed


----------



## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> Spot on.  Its not just NP areas by the looks of it.   Its happening everywhere. Its an ideal opportunity for those with a vested interest to outlaw wild camping. Covid and the Covidiots have handed them that on a plate.
> 
> They are too dense to realise it will drive people like us that respect the countryside and have plenty of disposable cash to spend away whilst the morons that just want to party will just carry on regardless.  It would be very interesting to see as time goes on the statistics as to who has been fined or moved on.  Civilised motorhomers parked in easy to get to areas will be an easy target for the rozzers.
> 
> It just makes my blood boil. When the travel restrictions were lifted we had hordes of morons partying on our beauty spots here and causing havoc.  Did they fine them or turn them around? Nope!  We even had to call the Army in at Richmond Falls but still they were allowed to come and still do everytime its good weather.  But we cant sleep in a van on a remote hill top. ****!    Jeeesaz! Soon as I get a new van Im off to France. feck em!




France wouldnt be my choice but I see where you are coming from.Just make sure Covid19 isnt spiking again when you depart


----------



## Deleted member 34243 (Jul 26, 2020)

Val54 said:


> It certainly doesn't appear to be part of the maintained highway, so could well be within the scope of the bylaw, its just ridiculous and heavy handed that the police didn't just tell him to move off early morning and that they would be checking.


Yep, that would stop illegal overnighting. ‘Good evening, please leave tomorrow‘


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> Or better still, just go round early morning when its light.  Or even better just go and do some actual proper police work and tell the NPA to get stuffed.


I always love that ‘do some actual police work...’ it seems to mean ‘let me break the rules but punish someone else’. Have I missed something?


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## GWAYGWAY (Jul 26, 2020)

How about this tactic.

"Sorry, occifer but my driving time is up quarter of an hour ago and I need 12 hours rest time before going on"
 I think you might hear the local plod's brain whirring at that one as he doesn't actually know very much traffic law.


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## runnach (Jul 26, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> I always love that ‘do some actual police work...’ it seems to mean ‘let me break the rules but punish someone else’. Have I missed something?


A timely opportunity to remind people the law is as it is, not necessarily how we would like it to be ? Including some of those tasked to enforce and administer, change will only come about at the ballot box as things stand


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## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> I always love that ‘do some actual police work...’ it seems to mean ‘let me break the rules but punish someone else’. Have I missed something?



Yes I think you might have (missed something).   On what planet is it a good use of an already stretched police force to go out traumatising families in campervans in the middle of the night and driving them out of the county?

The problem is with Covidiots not with motorhomers. The Police should have the sense to be able to distinguish between the two.  Unless of course as suggested earlier on this has nothing to do with protecting the environment and its trickled down from those with a vested interest in campsites.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 26, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> I always love that ‘do some actual police work...’ it seems to mean ‘let me break the rules but punish someone else’. Have I missed something?


I would have thought it meant as all Police forces constantly cry for more resources. The use of police to follow a NP ranger all shift to awaken and move on families at midnight not the best use of said resources, unless that is there is nothing of more  a priority going on in the Cumbria region. IF that is the case then the good people of Cumbria should be very happy.


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## antiquesam (Jul 26, 2020)

The police don't always only serve the wealthy. A driver I worked with had a delivery to a Tesco distribution centre. He arrived at the appointed time and was left for six hours before being directed to an unloading bay only to be left again. When his hours ran out he closed the curtains and turned in. Tesco management went into one and insisted he move, which he refused to do. The police were called and the driver explained the situation. The result was Tesco were told he stays for his eleven hour break and that the bays on either side of him must be closed.


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## trevskoda (Jul 26, 2020)

Police here have more to sort out with drug dealers gun men or hoods as we call them,house break ins,car jacking rtc than to worry about some good sod have a snooze in a van.
On going through england one thing i found was to many nosey finger waging know it alls and over the top police ,the good folk over there must have a bad time trying to cope with the likes,if you wish a softer life style then a welcome is here for you to retire in peace,ps houses are far cheaper to buy.


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## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

I notice its made a few of the local rags but if you want to have your say, this is probably the best place.  Its a Facebook link with about 70 comments so far.





__ https://www.facebook.com/lakedistrictnationalpark/photos/a.10150255548075221/10164224400840221


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## Val54 (Jul 26, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> Yep, that would stop illegal overnighting. ‘Good evening, please leave tomorrow‘


Er, they had his name and vehicle reg, so he could expect a fine through the post if he was recorded the following night anywhere in the NP ..........


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> I notice its made a few of the local rags but if you want to have your say, this is probably the best place.  Its a Facebook link with about 70 comments so far.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




"""""Heather Turner Let’s distinguish between wild camping (leaving no trace, up in the fells) and FLY CAMPING (camper-vanning in lay-bys, car parks, on lake shores, river banks etc...)""""

Above comment onFacebook link is saying tents are ok up in the wilds of the Lake District but Fly Camping "yes thats motorhomes new name"needs to be stamped out. Is she using the similarity in the term FLY to Flytipping? There is a difference  between responsible WildCampers (including the thousands on this forum) who never leave a trace and the new Covidiot probably Tents and new Camper/motorhomes owners who dont give a toss. There are also many car daytripper Covidiots who are dumping their rubbish and disappearing home. I live on the main Road into Skegness and I have a small layby outside my Bungalow.We have to cone it off on busy days as we always get the ones that stop and lob their wet wipes and dirty nappies and other rubbish under our front hedge.This is what is happening in the national parks now as after only a few months lockdown the idiots who are rushing to these beauty spots now they are released out of their homes(prison cage lol)and are going crazy doing unrepairable damage to the said beauty spots and National Parks.The shame now is the really  responsible Wildcampers like us are getting tarred with the same brush as these morons.And the Police have better things to do than to eveict a young family at midnight when they could tell them to leave early the following morning.


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jul 26, 2020)

Val54 said:


> Er, they had his name and vehicle reg, so he could expect a fine through the post if he was recorded the following night anywhere in the NP ..........


Does this apply to all lawbreakers. I saw you burgling that house. I’ll take your name and if you do it again.....


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> Yes I think you might have (missed something).   On what planet is it a good use of an already stretched police force to go out traumatising families in campervans in the middle of the night and driving them out of the county?
> 
> The problem is with Covidiots not with motorhomers. The Police should have the sense to be able to distinguish between the two.  Unless of course as suggested earlier on this has nothing to do with protecting the environment and its trickled down from those with a vested interest in campsites.


As previous response. Who are we to decide what priorities the police apply to illegal activities


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## Val54 (Jul 26, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> Does this apply to all lawbreakers. I saw you burgling that house. I’ll take your name and if you do it again.....


Clearly you subscribe to the "heavy handed approach", fair enough each to their own.


----------



## antiquesam (Jul 26, 2020)

I'm sure I can't be the only one whose parked up in a car park in the sticks and seen someone pass in a car and look, and you know you are about to see a police car shortly. Sure enough it cruises by or parks a little away from you while he does his checks before driving off. No fuss, no hassle. I've only once had them come and talk to me and that was in Norfolk. I parked up, had the passing car and then the police car. He asked me if I was planning on staying the night and immediately said it wasn't a problem but I should steer clear of somewhere else in the County as they had a traveller problem. I did ask if I was on private land and he said he'd clear it with the owner. They must be made of nastier stuff elsewhere.


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## trevskoda (Jul 26, 2020)

If you dont open the door how on earth do they knows some one is inside,it could easy be a brake down left for the night.


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## antiquesam (Jul 26, 2020)

Val54 said:


> Clearly you subscribe to the "heavy handed approach", fair enough each to their own.


There's something to be said for a heavy hand I just don't know anyone who would accommodate.


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## barge1914 (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> This has really got my dander up.   The copper states they have been having problems with yobs in tents making a mess.  Oh really! so go and move on some respectable bloke on his own in a tidy little campervan quietly parked up for the night and traumatise a family next door doing the same.  ****! I wonder how many groups of morons in tents they did the same to that night. None I suspect.
> 
> I know that spot well and all the others along Crummock water to Buttermere.   We have had similar issues with morons here since the restrictions were lifted but this is just fcuking ridiculous!   Target the morons, not those that are peacefully parking up in a remote spot for the night.  Chances are if he had knocked on my door I would have been full of Vino anyway. Is he going to make me drive home then?
> 
> Someone on the comments of the youtube video said Lake District national park only owns about 4% of the land which I find very hard to believe but it might be worth looking into. I would love for someone to find a loophole in this.  Meanwhile I will visit the lakes for a day as I only live 45 minutes from Ullswater but I wont bother going there in the van spending money if this is their attitude.


Pretty normal procedure, invent a crime, search for the guilty, punish the innocent!


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## Val54 (Jul 26, 2020)

If anyone is interested a trawl through the comments on the "perpetrator's" facebook blog is having the effect of putting people off visiting the Lakes ........


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## barge1914 (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> Bloody hell! Its true. National Park only owns 4 percent of the lake district.
> 
> "
> *Who owns National Parks?*
> ...


Key question, do they have power over highways that overrides normal road traffic regulations?


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## 2cv (Jul 26, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> Key question, do they have power over highways that overrides normal road traffic regulations?



It would appear not.


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## Val54 (Jul 26, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> Key question, do they have power over highways that overrides normal road traffic regulations?



No, they do not have the powers of a local highway authority


----------



## Deleted member 34243 (Jul 26, 2020)

Val54 said:


> Clearly you subscribe to the "heavy handed approach", fair enough each to their own.


You haven’t answered the question.  Does the take a name apply to all crimes or just ones you don’t llke?


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## Val54 (Jul 26, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> You haven’t answered the question.  Does the take a name apply to all crimes or just ones you don’t llke?


And I dont' intend to .........


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## GWAYGWAY (Jul 26, 2020)

Most of this crap would not have happened had the small matter of the entire population being put under house arrest for a few months. Everybody has to have a kick against the reins sometime. All a political move.


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## sparrks (Jul 26, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> As previous response. Who are we to decide what priorities the police apply to illegal activities


If I'm driving I have a legal responsabilty to pull over and take a nap until it's safe to do so, if I do that in the LDNP then I can expect to be fined £500.


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

sparrks said:


> If I'm driving I have a legal responsabilty to pull over and take a nap until it's safe to do so, if I do that in the LDNP then I can expect to be fined £500.




So in theory If in the lake District and one becomes tired one cannot pull over and sleep you have to keep driving until you fall asleep at the wheel and kill yourself and your passengers or you kill yourself passengers and another party passing you.Maybe this needs putting to the Cumbria Police to comment.Anyone care to contact the Police with this question and to see what their reply would be?


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## Fazerloz (Jul 26, 2020)

phase3begins said:


> As previous response. Who are we to decide what priorities the police apply to illegal activities



Would you happen to have any affiliations at all with the police?  Everybody knows the police prioritise crime.  I dare bet that somewhere in Cumbria someone was broken into and the only response from the police was to receive a crime number. Well to me and no doubt whoever was broken into that night it would be higher priority than moving vans parked at the side of the road in the middle of nowhere that were bothering no one. These orders come from above so there is a agenda somewhere along the line.


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## Peter51 (Jul 26, 2020)

Mobilvetta said:


> Just seen this blog from someone who was sleeping in there motorhome in a layby in the lake District national park yesterday, apparently the lake District national park authority along with the police are now enforcing a no camping bylaw that was introduced in 1970 but has never been enforced before.
> 
> It seems the police officers from 4.00pm were going around moving camper vans off, this man was woken up at 11.30 pm and given the option to move or face a £500 fine, it has been brought about by campers who have been littering the lake District with there tents and human waste. Shame as I love the lake District, I am Lucy enough to have a use of a boat berthed in Windermere to be able to stop in that.
> 
> ...


I think this bylaw applies in all National Parks with, for some reason, the possible exception of Dartmoor.  Even in Germany which is very campervan friendly they have a similar rule in their National Parks.


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## Deleted member 34243 (Jul 26, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> Would you happen to have any affiliations at all with the police?  Everybody knows the police prioritise crime.  I dare bet that somewhere in Cumbria someone was broken into and the only response from the police was to receive a crime number. Well to me and no doubt whoever was broken into that night it would be higher priority than moving vans parked at the side of the road in the middle of nowhere that were bothering no one. These orders come from above so there is a agenda somewhere along the line.


No affiliation whatsoever.


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## barryd (Jul 26, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> Would you happen to have any affiliations at all with the police?  Everybody knows the police prioritise crime.  I dare bet that somewhere in Cumbria someone was broken into and the only response from the police was to receive a crime number. Well to me and no doubt whoever was broken into that night it would be higher priority than moving vans parked at the side of the road in the middle of nowhere that were bothering no one. These orders come from above so there is a agenda somewhere along the line.



I agree. that spot is a long way from the nearest police station thats for sure.  Fair old wiggle down some very slow single track roads.  Its a fairly well known stop over though. No doubt they carried on and did the full stretch from Honister to the end of Crummock water.   Probably took them half a shift.   What a waste of resources.   I bet the Covidiots wont have even heard of these places.   The main problems with rubbish and bad behaviour will be centred around the main popular lakes.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 26, 2020)

barryd said:


> I agree. that spot is a long way from the nearest police station thats for sure.  Fair old wiggle down some very slow single track roads.  Its a fairly well known stop over though. No doubt they carried on and did the full stretch from Honister to the end of Crummock water.   Probably took them half a shift.   What a waste of resources.   I bet the Covidiots wont have even heard of these places.   The main problems with rubbish and bad behaviour will be centred around the main popular lakes.


Now I think the Covidiots are a nice convenient excuse for the authorities unfortunately.


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## colinm (Jul 26, 2020)

mickymost said:


> So in theory If in the lake District and one becomes tired one cannot pull over and sleep you have to keep driving until you fall asleep at the wheel and kill yourself and your passengers or you kill yourself passengers and another party passing you.Maybe this needs putting to the Cumbria Police to comment.Anyone care to contact the Police with this question and to see what their reply would be?


If you believe driving onwards would be dangerous then you can always explain that to the magistrate, I'm sure they will be understanding.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 26, 2020)

The Lake District isn't that big, that you couldn't find an official layby or parking spot to take a short break.


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## MadRssss (Jul 26, 2020)

Val54 said:


> 2021 ferry booked


I’m already here. Was hoping to get back in September and everyone and everything had calmed . Doesn’t look like it


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

colinmd said:


> If you believe driving onwards would be dangerous then you can always explain that to the magistrate, I'm sure they will be understanding.



These guys were told move or £500 fine,that was the choice

So as I said before If I was tired and drove on due to not feeling I could stop with the possibility of an Instant £500 fine and killed myself then I wouldnt be around to explain to a Magistrate.Neither would my wife.

Anyway we WONT BE visiting the Lake District anytime soon.


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> The Lake District isn't that big, that you couldn't find an official layby or parking spot to take a short break.




How do we know these guys moved on werent on an Official layby?And if they were on an official parking spot they were still told to leave.Others posting on this thread here are saying laybys in the National Park come under the National park rules.So f off or a £500 instant fine.Wonder how many argued with the Police and didnt leave.Bet I could count em on one hand!


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## colinm (Jul 26, 2020)

mickymost said:


> These guys were told move or £500 fine,that was the choice
> 
> So as I said before If I was tired and drove on due to not feeling I could stop with the possibility of an Instant £500 fine and killed myself then I wouldnt be around to explain to a Magistrate.Neither would my wife.
> 
> Anyway we WONT BE visiting the Lake District anytime soon.


The person filming knew he was breaking the law before being knocked up, there is no mention of £500 fine, but he already knew this, as with many fines AFAIK it's a 'up to', now if you break the law it's your responsibility, and you now know of this law so have nothing to complain about the same as the person who was filmed, and don't forget it applies to all national parks in england and wales. You could say the law is unfair, but remember the national parks are like they are because of laws like this, not in spite of them, and the police have been asked to apply the law, should they 'stake out' the van to see if he was a 'nice' camper so could be left to break the law?
Myself, the last time I stopped for any time in the lakes was decades ago, it was much to busy for me back then, I did try and find a campsite for one night in august about 10 years ago on the way back from Mull and it was heaving, so moved on, and I doubt I'll be going back anytime soon.


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

colinmd said:


> The person filming knew he was breaking the law before being knocked up, there is no mention of £500 fine, but he already knew this, as with many fines AFAIK it's a 'up to', now if you break the law it's your responsibility, and you now know of this law so have nothing to complain about the same as the person who was filmed, and don't forget it applies to all national parks in england and wales. You could say the law is unfair, but remember the national parks are like they are because of laws like this, not in spite of them, and the police have been asked to apply the law, should they 'stake out' the van to see if he was a 'nice' camper so could be left to break the law?
> Myself, the last time I stopped for any time in the lakes was decades ago, it was much to busy for me back then, I did try and find a campsite for one night in august about 10 years ago on the way back from Mull and it was heaving, so moved on, and I doubt I'll be going back anytime soon.




Oy slow down Im not complaining.Where did you get that idea.I Havent been out in my Campervan with her indoors since last October 2019 And what law are you going on about?
Her indoors thanks to covid19 is too frightened to leave home.Im just observing this thread and what has been posted and I am voicing my opinion i/e its a forum.


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Oy slow down Im not complaining.Where did you get that idea.I Havent been out in my Campervan with her indoors since last October 2019 And what law are you going on about?
> Her indoors thanks to covid19 is too frightened to leave home.Im just observing this thread and what has been posted and I am voicing my opinion i/e its a forum.




And if you are going on about this so called bylaw from 1970 (1980 on the website) I doubt its enforceable on a Public Road.

Quoted from the tinternet

"The short answer is no, you’re not breaking the law if you sleep in your car. When it comes to taking a break, and even having a nap, the Highway Code is very clear on this.

Rule 91 of the Highway Code recommends taking a “minimum break of fifteen minutes after every two hours of driving”. And if you’re tired, it suggests a “short nap” for at least fifteen minutes.

But before you pull up and catch 40 winks, there are some circumstances that you need to be aware of.

“It’s not an offence to sleep in your car, but it’s the location that’s important”, says Alex Garner, a Road Traffic Specialist from Stephensons Solicitors. “For example, you can’t expect to pull up and park on double yellow lines.”

When it comes to motorway driving, don’t stop on the hard shoulder for a snooze, as this is for emergencies only. Ideally, find a motorway service area where you can park up for a short sleep and get a coffee.

And if you are planning to sleep in your car, stay safe. That means locking your doors, opening the window enough to allow some fresh air in, and setting the alarm on your phone so you don’t oversleep.

If you oversleep in a service station car park, you may face a fine. Some services have strict limits on how long you can stay.

So no I DONT NOW KNOW of this law!


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

Also see 2cv comment post 6 on this thread where the Loch Lomond authority came unstuck trying to lay down a law regarding to laybys. in National Parks.They had to backtrack on that one.


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

colinmd said:


> The person filming knew he was breaking the law before being knocked up, there is no mention of £500 fine, but he already knew this, as with many fines AFAIK it's a 'up to', now if you break the law it's your responsibility, and you now know of this law so have nothing to complain about the same as the person who was filmed, and don't forget it applies to all national parks in england and wales. You could say the law is unfair, but remember the national parks are like they are because of laws like this, not in spite of them, and the police have been asked to apply the law, should they 'stake out' the van to see if he was a 'nice' camper so could be left to break the law?
> Myself, the last time I stopped for any time in the lakes was decades ago, it was much to busy for me back then, I did try and find a campsite for one night in august about 10 years ago on the way back from Mull and it was heaving, so moved on, and I doubt I'll be going back anytime soon.




and ColinMD
Mobilvetta on the first post of this thread HIS thread mentioned the £500 fine.The guy also mentions the fine on the video.Have you watched it?Please feel to scroll back and check.


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## mickymost (Jul 26, 2020)

colinmd said:


> The person filming knew he was breaking the law before being knocked up, there is no mention of £500 fine, but he already knew this, as with many fines AFAIK it's a 'up to', now if you break the law it's your responsibility, and you now know of this law so have nothing to complain about the same as the person who was filmed, and don't forget it applies to all national parks in england and wales. You could say the law is unfair, but remember the national parks are like they are because of laws like this, not in spite of them, and the police have been asked to apply the law, should they 'stake out' the van to see if he was a 'nice' camper so could be left to break the law?
> Myself, the last time I stopped for any time in the lakes was decades ago, it was much to busy for me back then, I did try and find a campsite for one night in august about 10 years ago on the way back from Mull and it was heaving, so moved on, and I doubt I'll be going back anytime soon.




Also a local Byelaw applies locally not nationally.So the Lake District byelaw cant be enforced in Dartmoor or Wales or the Peak District etc.Its possible all other national parks have Byelaws in place BUT they are local set by the local Councils then they have to gain Government approval


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## Val54 (Jul 26, 2020)

I've got deja vu, last time ...........
A National Park Authority does not have the powers of a local highway authority (Cumbria County Council in this case)  so its bylaws (for various legal reasons) cannot apply to a publicly maintained and adopted highway. However not all laybys are maintained as public highway and car parks are certainly not. It follows that the bylaw may well legitimately apply to a layby or car park, but it will depend on the individual circumstances. It is also important to remember that the local highway authority may well have their own Traffic Regulation Orders in force regarding parking on the public highway although it wasn't relied on in this case.


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## Fisherman (Jul 27, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> No, they weren't. They were being jobsworths, imho.
> 
> Path of least resistance and lazy policing. I think pressure needs to be applied to local authorities and the police to start addressing the actual problematic behaviour that has caused this type of OTT response in the first place.
> 
> Or we can just sit back and let the economy suffer even more and not bother going anywhere.


Absolutely Marie, the vast majority of those approached would have been doing nothing wrong, and that’s the real crime.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

Just one important thing to remember. If you stay in a Layby at night WITH A VEHICLE 2.5 TON AND OVER, and the speed limit is over 30mph, you must display parking lights.
Our Fleet safety and Compliance Officers, who work alongside the Police, DVLA and the Traffic commissioner, won't comment on the subject of Motorhomes etc. However their interpretation of Layby use is for emergencies and short stay, not parking. Which of course means anyone who parks up and goes off walking is technically misusing them. I mentioned HGV use. The answer was they are working so have a legal responsibility to take the required breaks. Another evasive answer then.
The really important bit though is the use of parking lights where required. Iff someone ran into your vehicle at night and was killed, you would be arrested on a charge of causing death by dangerous driving and it has happened.
Now I'm not saying don't stop in laybys, just be aware you need to display lights. It's amazing how forum discussions throw up all sorts you wouldn't normally consider.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

That applies to parking on verges and any unlit road as well.


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## Nabsim (Jul 27, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> That applies to parking on verges and any unlit road as well.


The lights are only needed if there is no barrier between the road and the lay by. The barrier can be physical or painted as you find on a lot of A roads. Obviously a lay by with a physical barrier and hopefully trees between you and the road is preferable as they are quieter.

You sure it is 30mph @Hallmut? Parking on any roads with 40mph and above requires parking lights (a red bike lamp at back and white at front is sufficient). I had a house that fronted the road on a country land for 20 odd years, the only parking was on street. Every now and then police would come round to advise we either had to move them or display lights, hasn’t occurred for over 10 years now but the law still stands. That’s why I question the 30mph as you don’t, or didn’t, require parking lights in a 30 or below according to the officers who used to come round.


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## mickymost (Jul 27, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Absolutely Marie, the vast majority of those approached would have been doing nothing wrong, and that’s the real crime.




Exactly Fisherman it hasnt been established if they were breaking any law.The heavy handed Police moving them on at midnight and beyond was completely unnecessary .They should have been given the chance to depart the following morning.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> The lights are only needed if there is no barrier between the road and the lay by. The barrier can be physical or painted as you find on a lot of A roads. Obviously a lay by with a physical barrier and hopefully trees between you and the road is preferable as they are quieter.
> 
> You sure it is 30mph @Hallmut? Parking on any roads with 40mph and above requires parking lights (a red bike lamp at back and white at front is sufficient). I had a house that fronted the road on a country land for 20 odd years, the only parking was on street. Every now and then police would come round to advise we either had to move them or display lights, hasn’t occurred for over 10 years now but the law still stands. That’s why I question the 30mph as you don’t, or didn’t, require parking lights in a 30 or below according to the officers who used to come round.


It's 30mph iff the vehicle weighs over 2.5 ton, sorry. I'll ask again about the barrier but most laybys on main roads at least have lines seperating them from the highway. It still stands with unlit roads though, because I got a rollocking a few years back for that one. I'm sure cycle lights would be okay and a good idea.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

TBH, I've been told by a police officer, that they all have pet hates. Like everyone else. Iff you happen to get one that has a bee in their bonnet around what you are doing wrong, then it's game over.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

Thinking about it, if you displayed the vehicle parking lights, a passing cop might keep passing. I can but dream.


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## Nabsim (Jul 27, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> Thinking about it, if you displayed the vehicle parking lights, a passing cop might keep passing. I can but dream.


If you display parking lights they have no reason not to pass by


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> If you display parking lights they have no reason not to pass by


It's given me an idea for fitting LED bulbs on the sidelamps now, so there's no risk of a flat battery in the morning. Considering my Van in it's new Arctic White Livery can be seen from space, I wouldn't be destroying it's stealth capabilities.


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## mickymost (Jul 27, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> It's given me an idea for fitting LED bulbs on the sidelamps now, so there's no risk of a flat battery in the morning.



Could one sleep for about 6 hours and still start the engine though if one had LEDS and left them on?


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Could one sleep for about 6 hours and still start the engine though if one had LEDS and left them on?


Shouldn't be a problem on mine. It's fitted with a 900Ah commercial battery. In fact using normal bulbs shouldn't put a dent in it.


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## mark61 (Jul 27, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Could one sleep for about 6 hours and still start the engine though if one had LEDS and left them on?



Shouldn't be a problem given a battery in good condition and use of left/right parking light mode. 
LED bulbs, better still.


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## jagmanx (Jul 27, 2020)

If your bulbs are not LED easy enuff to buy x2
1 red one white and plug in / crocclips to LB


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> If your bulbs are not LED easy enuff to buy x2
> 1 red one white and plug in / crocclips to LB


Never thought of that, cheers.


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## mark61 (Jul 27, 2020)

I bought these a few years ago in yellow, just in case of emergency.  Saw them on eBay for about £25 so got them. 

I often use them at night when camping and sitting outside, on dim permanent mode. Great little lights, when these pack up I'd happily buy at usual price, doubt I'll find them for £25 again.

https://nightsearcher.co.uk/en/category/warning-lights/product/pulsar-pro-set-of-five-61.html


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## barryd (Jul 27, 2020)

Here is the spot in question on Streetview. Its at the top of the Newlands pass. Cracking location.









						Google Maps
					

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




					www.google.com
				




Those look like what I would call a layby to me but whether or not you have a legal right to park there or not is as clear as mud until we see the bylaws I think.  As far as I remember there are no signs prohibiting overnight parking but its been a while since I was up there.

However.  This might piss on everyones chips as I seem to remember one of the reasons we never went back to that spot was I discovered there was a 6ft 6" restriction on that road.  Last time I went up there I missed it as I came up the pass from Derwent water side beyond Portinscale.  That little car van would be ok but not so sure about the PVC and certainly not my Kontiki.  So I guess even if you were to argue with the copper that you could legally park there if your in a big van and he realises there is a restriction (he may not) he could get you on that I suppose.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

barryd said:


> Here is the spot in question on Streetview. Its at the top of the Newlands pass. Cracking location.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice spot. Some of these 'Laybys' are put in for road maintenance,  for the big machinery, and dumping materials etc. This looks like one of those and not an official layby, I could be wrong though. Interesting. Does the Landowner inherit them or does the council own them?
I'm sure 6ft 6 inch, refers to axle width and not the body overhang.  And why not allow sensible people to use maintenance bays. Easily policed to clear off any riff raff.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

Incidentally, allowing sensible people who could clear up any minor rubbish and reporting idiots, would help to protect areas like this, me thinks.


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## mickymost (Jul 27, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> Incidentally, allowing sensible people who could clear up any minor rubbish and reporting idiots, would help to protect areas like this, me thinks.




Great idea and a way forwards BUT need to convince the Park Authority on the advantages of responsible Motorhomers overnighting after the Covidiots have been destroying the countryside after being let out of their lockdown.Who wants to put it to the powers that be?


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Great idea and a way forwards BUT need to convince the Park Authority on the advantages of responsible Motorhomers overnighting after the Covidiots have been destroying the countryside after being let out of their lockdown.Who wants to put it to the powers that be?


It probably needs a very well put together E-Mail or Letter, that everyone can forward to the Local Council and Parks Authority. The British Model Flying Association did something similar, when the Civil Aviation Authority got involved in our hobby. That molded the regulations to suit both parties (after lot's of talks), and stopped what could have been a disastrous end to the hobby.


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## colinm (Jul 27, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> And why not allow sensible people to use maintenance bays. Easily policed to clear off any riff raff.



Sounds eminently sensible, until that is you have to deal with the 'great british public'. I mean, who are the 'riff raff'? The one's in an old 'hippy van', or in a brand new A class, our experience (and we have a lot in our gateways)  you have no idea who's going to leave a mess.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

colinmd said:


> Sounds eminently sensible, until that is you have to deal with the 'great british public'. I mean, who are the 'riff raff'? The one's in an old 'hippy van', or in a brand new A class, our experience (and we have a lot in our gateways)  you have no idea who's going to leave a mess.


Yes, good points.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 27, 2020)

Never judge a book by its cover? 

Some of the worst offenders are not always the 'scruffiest' looking


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Never judge a book by its cover?
> 
> Some of the worst offenders are not always the 'scruffiest' looking


I'm sometimes very scruffy. I was thinking more along the lines of, 'iff you see someone knackering things up for the rest of us'. Registration report to the Police. Now the Police can't act unless the perpetrator admits guilt (or you film it, which isn't advisable). They should retain the information for their records, to build up a picture of what's happening where, and by whom. Civilians record this so it's not wasting Police officers time. Most, iff not all cities employ a crime reporting, web based system. Who better to spot things than us.


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## Nabsim (Jul 27, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> I'm sometimes very scruffy. I was thinking more along the lines of, 'iff you see someone knackering things up for the rest of us'. Registration report to the Police. Now the Police can't act unless the perpetrator admits guilt (or you film it, which isn't advisable). They should retain the information for their records, to build up a picture of what's happening where, and by whom. Civilians record this so it's not wasting Police officers time. Most, iff not all cities employ a crime reporting, web based system. Who better to spot things than us.


Yet people don’t want their personal data infringing. No way would I report someone to the police, or should I say not unless it was a serious crime. That’s exactly what the government want, get people policing each other.
Let them create areas to use and supply and empty bins, most littering I see is in lay-bys and areas with no provision. A lot of us may clear up and take litter that isn’t ours away but an awful lot don’t.


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> Yet people don’t want their personal data infringing. No way would I report someone to the police, or should I say not unless it was a serious crime. That’s exactly what the government want, get people policing each other.
> Let them create areas to use and supply and empty bins, most littering I see is in lay-bys and areas with no provision. A lot of us may clear up and take litter that isn’t ours away but an awful lot don’t.


I was thinking more in line with the sort of mess left behind by the irresponsible few. That is a serious crime to people who end up with injured livestock, or damage to property. I was just mulling over how to be seen as an asset to wild areas and not part of the problem.
I am not afraid to approach individuals in person and let them know how their actions may jeopardise access for us all. Groups are for the Police to sort out though.


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## Nabsim (Jul 27, 2020)

The police will not go to groups that’s the problem

edit: not the problem, one of them


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## Deleted member 77519 (Jul 27, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> The police will not go to groups that’s the problem
> 
> edit: not the problem, one of them


Actually that's sadly very true in a lot of cases.


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## Mobilvetta (Aug 4, 2020)

We we are off to Pooley bridge for a long weekend, my daughter and grandkids plus many of her friends are camping in tents there, managed to book Parkfoot were they are staying for £30.00 a night for staying on a field a couple of months ago, no hookups were available.

 Someone else has also tried to book but the site, but it is now full. Think it will be rather busy and noisy, I usually try and avoid going away in the school holidays for that reason. It was she who must be obeyed idea.  Hope this Covid goes away soon so we can escape to the continent were prices seem much more reasonable with better facilities.


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## barryd (Aug 4, 2020)

Mobilvetta said:


> We we are off to Pooley bridge for a long weekend, my daughter and grandkids plus many of her friends are camping in tents there, managed to book Parkfoot were they are staying for £30.00 a night for staying on a field a couple of months ago, no hookups were available.
> 
> Someone else has also tried to book but the site, but it is now full. Think it will be rather busy and noisy, I usually try and avoid going away in the school holidays for that reason. It was she who must be obeyed idea.  Hope this Covid goes away soon so we can escape to the continent were prices seem much more reasonable with better facilities.



Did you try Waterside or Cross Dormont just a bit further along the lane towards Howtown?  You can walk along the lake shore from Park foot to Waterside. Never stayed at the other one  which is a bit further towards Howtown.


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## Mobilvetta (Aug 4, 2020)

barryd said:


> Did you try Waterside or Cross Dormont just a bit further along the lane towards Howtown?  You can walk along the lake shore from Park foot to Waterside. Never stayed at the other one  which is a bit further towards Howtown.



No I never tried the others as my family had already booked Parkfoot, so we wanted to stay on the same site, but I shall have a walk to the other site and see how the costs compare.


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## Obanboy666 (Aug 4, 2020)

Mobilvetta said:


> We we are off to Pooley bridge for a long weekend, my daughter and grandkids plus many of her friends are camping in tents there, managed to book Parkfoot were they are staying for £30.00 a night for staying on a field a couple of months ago, no hookups were available.
> 
> Someone else has also tried to book but the site, but it is now full. Think it will be rather busy and noisy, I usually try and avoid going away in the school holidays for that reason. It was she who must be obeyed idea.  Hope this Covid goes away soon so we can escape to the continent were prices seem much more reasonable with better facilities.


Good luck, take earplugs with you to drown out the noise of the police cars visiting late at night to sort out the riots that often occur.
I used to stay at Hillcroft park which is farther along the road nearer Pooley bridge and would often hear the racket going until late at night.


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## Mobilvetta (Aug 5, 2020)

Obanboy666 said:


> Good luck, take earplugs with you to drown out the noise of the police cars visiting late at night to sort out the riots that often occur.
> I used to stay at Hillcroft park which is farther along the road nearer Pooley bridge and would often hear the racket going until late at night.



Thanks for tip, my noise cancelling headphones are onboard, looks like they will come in handy.


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## AldoTheCampervan (Aug 10, 2020)

Hallmut said:


> Of course the other angle is we've been breaching and ignoring byelaws that are still in operation today. I feel it will all quieten down in a few years, as long as we don't go back to parking in groups, parking within sight of peoples homes and Taking the piss by getting chairs and tables out.


I've seen alot of the parking in groups happening, chairs out and rowdy. All that is going to do is fuel people to complain. When we park up we are respectful and quiet, I park up to rest for another day full of outdoor activities not to get wasted. Leave that for the pub I say.


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## AldoTheCampervan (Aug 10, 2020)

barryd said:


> LOL! I Was watching Fawlty Towers last night. Must have been where it came from!
> 
> I have just emailed the Lake District National park asking for more info on this bylaw and how they can enforce it when they only own four percent of the land.
> 
> ...


Be interesting to see the response.


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## AldoTheCampervan (Aug 10, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> It's a knee-jerk heavy-handed reaction to a situation that has arisen as a result of C-19.
> 
> It makes no sense. It's an overuse of authority and is merely a sticking plaster, doing nothing to address the bad behaviour that has caused this type of policing in the first place.
> 
> ...


Agree! I was going to lakes on Friday but now I've changed mind and going to stay around Cornwall. It's a shame because this will limit tourism, I'm not paying £35 per night camping


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