# Our cheap battery!



## Phantom (Oct 18, 2020)

We're still deciding on the most suitable upgrades for our generally low moho power usage. Recently one of our FLA leisure batteries was finally declared about dead so looked for a convenient and quick replacement as we are moving about. Saw one on ebay 110Ah for £65 delivered next day, ordered at 5pm and it was delivered at 9am next morning, so seemed a convenient punt. But it has made a world of difference, so am very happy with our purchase. Not talking here about battery technology nor long livety at all as was just a cheap temporary solution to suit our current needs.
But now in more detail just looking at what we actually got for £65 delivered next day!
Well it appears to be a generic 110Ah, mainenance free, wet lead battery, labeled Probat, containing "Expanded Metal Technology (EMT) by using lead-calcium alloy in the production of battery plates, alledgedly proven to deliver increased reliability and longevity of an automotive battery." Claimed to be dual purpose starter/deep cycle? It has a 4 year guarantee, so seemed a no brainer for the price?


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## molly 2 (Oct 19, 2020)

It was your choice   ..lots of  cheap  batteries around  , like you say  no brainer  if it weighs about 23 klg


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## jagmanx (Oct 19, 2020)

Sometime Cheap & cheerful works.
It will be interesting to see for how long it works well
If 3 years a great solution.
Sometimes we over-complicate and over-spend


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## barryd (Oct 19, 2020)

I do wonder if its worth spending lots of money on batteries.  We have had our van 12 years+ and its only on its second leisure battery.  When we got it, it had a Banner 110ah which I dont think is an expensive brand. That lasted until either 2014 or 2015 where it just died and I replaced it in France with I think an Alphaline or something like that from Battery Megastore in Caen (about 100 euros for a 125ah maintenance free) and its still going.  Apart from this year the van goes on really long trips and rarely on hookup. Solar April to September does the job and no battery problems.   It must be about due to pop but not showing any signs yet.  For the price of a tank of diesel for maybe 6 years use+ is it worth spending more on batteries?


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## peter palance (Oct 19, 2020)

barryd said:


> I do wonder if its worth spending lots of money on batteries.  We have had our van 12 years+ and its only on its second leisure battery.  When we got it, it had a Banner 110ah which I dont think is an expensive brand. That lasted until either 2014 or 2015 where it just died and I replaced it in France with I think an Alphaline or something like that from Battery Megastore in Caen (about 100 euros for a 125ah maintenance free) and its still going.  Apart from this year the van goes on really long trips and rarely on hookup. Solar April to September does the job and no battery problems.   It must be about due to pop but not showing any signs yet.  For the price of a tank of diesel for maybe 6 years use+ is it worth spending more on batteries?


great, keep it going, are you all fire-ing on all cylinders,sat no more.keep safe, ok pj.


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## Winger (Oct 19, 2020)

Worth a punt, do you have an eBay link?


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## Phantom (Oct 19, 2020)

Winger said:


> Worth a punt, do you have an eBay link?


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-110A...4637a252e5:g:D-QAAOSwPhNfe45U&redirect=mobile


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## trevskoda (Oct 19, 2020)

Cheap batteries are fine, but do they have a CELL by date.


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## martinmartin (Oct 20, 2020)

Bought two of these from the same seller last month one for the engine and one for leisure,I got just over 4 years out of last similar bat which was leisure use.


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## peter palance (Oct 20, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Cheap batteries are fine, but do they have a CELL by date.


back in your cage. be careful lie-ing about.you might get charged.  hope your ok,  ok.pj.


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## myvanwy (Oct 20, 2020)

I knew a guy who drank battery acid and got arrested. The rozzers charged him in the morning.


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## trevskoda (Oct 20, 2020)

Two chaps got arrested for stealing fireworks and car batteries, in court one got let of and the other was charged.


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## 1977paul (Oct 21, 2020)

Having purchased exactly the same type of battery from Numberonebatteries, Luton on eBay it failed after all of two weeks very light usage to the degree it was giving off fumes that set the carbon monoxide alarm off. Company refuse to refund me, insisting I return the battery for testing.....an expensive exercise that I will only undertake if I find the need to go that way for other reasons. 
I sourced a replacement from my local eurocarparts, bit more money but far more peace of mind. Look on eBay at the company, they get very mixed reviews!


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## witzend (Oct 21, 2020)

Phantom said:


> . Recently one of our FLA leisure batteries was finally declared about dead so looked for a convenient and quick replacement as we are moving about.


Usually recommended as best practice  to replace all in the bank at the same time with matching batteries


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## Admin (Oct 22, 2020)

I have just read all the real reviews for these batteries on eBay. I would recommend that you DO NOT buy these batteries as they are reported to be poor quality and they appear not to honour the guarantee.


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## Mr and Mrs Tupcox (Oct 22, 2020)

Never purchased expensive Batteries .
Had my last 2 , 18 months now cost £205 the pair work fine . And up to lockdown we was full time using them ...


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## mfw (Oct 22, 2020)

Dont think batteries on a motorhome last long anyway purely to the amount of time the vehicles sit around idle and batteries do like to be worked - and point i'm making is the battery is barely getting used so will deteriorate faster than a vehicle getting used all the time


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## caledonia (Oct 22, 2020)

You only get what you pay for!


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## mfw (Oct 22, 2020)

caledonia said:


> You only get what you pay for!


Not always there is a lot of dubious sellers out there


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## caledonia (Oct 22, 2020)

mfw said:


> Not always there is a lot of dubious sellers out there


If it seems to good to be true it normally is.


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## wildebus (Oct 22, 2020)

caledonia said:


> You only get what you pay for!


Sadly, very often you pay for a lot more than you get.


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## wildebus (Oct 22, 2020)

mfw said:


> Dont think batteries on a motorhome last long anyway purely to the amount of time the vehicles sit around idle and batteries do like to be worked - and point i'm making is the battery is barely getting used so will deteriorate faster than a vehicle getting used all the time


I am not sure I agree with that point made in such a sweeping way.

The reason so many batteries on motorhomes don't last is not due to not being used, but due to not being treated correctly.

How many times do we read posts about batteries found to need big top ups of water when the owners remembered to check them?
How often are batteries correctly charged?  Many Solar Controllers are not able to fully charge a battery, especially outside the summer months;  Most vans don't have a proper Battery-to-Battery charger but just a relay to connect the alternator output to the Lesiure Battery;  Same with Battery Chargung when on Hookup - too many just put out a too-low voltage to the battery from a simple power supply.
Most Batteries do not like to be left without a full charge, so all the above contribute to the problem.  Lithium Batteries can be left without a full charge without a problem (and can actually prefer it). Lead-Carbon Batteries also don't mind being left in a Partial State of Charge (PSOC).  
But the Lead Acid Batteries that are generally fitted to Motorhomes really need to be fully - and properly - charged as soon as possible after use.  And for most vans, used a little or a lot, that doesn't tend to happen.


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## trevskoda (Oct 22, 2020)

caledonia said:


> You only get what you pay for!


Not always.


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## trevskoda (Oct 22, 2020)

I have came across many folk in the motor trade who say leave well enuff alone, they never change oil/filters ,top up batteries or anything else to they find themselves stranded, then they spout its a crap make or whatever, never ever the fault.
Batteries are like babies, they have to be feed, looked at,  and treated with respect.


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## jagmanx (Oct 22, 2020)

I suggest even a cheap battery will be OK if it is used regularly.
@Phantom is Full-timinng I think. Just need to make sure he does not use too much power.
As @trevskoda implies maintain/lookafter etc
Pay £200 every 5 years or £100 every 3 years ???


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## trevskoda (Oct 22, 2020)

Mine were about 45 and lasting almost 8 years so far.


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## wildebus (Oct 22, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> I suggest even a cheap battery will be OK if it is used regularly.
> @Phantom is Full-timinng I think. Just need to make sure he does not use too much power.
> As @trevskoda implies maintain/lookafter etc
> Pay £200 every 5 years or £100 every 3 years ???


The other factor to bear in mind is the labour cost to replace.   Lots of people either do not want or are not able to change the batteries themselves and if they have to, say, pay £50 for someone to do it for them,  FREE batteries that only lasted a year would be a false economy.
But hey, the batteries didn't cost them anything!  Result  (not!  )


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## barryd (Oct 22, 2020)

mfw said:


> Dont think batteries on a motorhome last long anyway purely to the amount of time the vehicles sit around idle and batteries do like to be worked - and point i'm making is the battery is barely getting used so will deteriorate faster than a vehicle getting used all the time





wildebus said:


> The other factor to bear in mind is the labour cost to replace.   Lots of people either do not want or are not able to change the batteries themselves and if they have to, say, pay £50 for someone to do it for them,  FREE batteries that only lasted a year would be a false economy.
> But hey, the batteries didn't cost them anything!  Result  (not!  )



When I bought my last battery from Battery Megastore in Caen, France they fitted it free but to be honest even I could change a leisure battery. Nothing to it as long as you can lift it.

The conclusion to me here is buy cheap but not too cheap.  Next time I need one ill just do what I did last time and spend about a hundred quid from a known supplier with a long guarantee.   If it lasts as long as the last two 5-6 years then its more than good value.


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## caledonia (Oct 22, 2020)

When I got my T5 over 8 years ago I upped the battery from an 85 to a 110 and never had a problem with it. I bought it from Halfords as there is one in every major town and if my battery went faulty when away in the van I could just visit the nearest store for replacement.


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## martinmartin (Oct 22, 2020)

As l posted earlier l bought two of these batteries, if I'd of read the reviews I wouldn't of bought them, anyway they are both performing well, l will try and show this months usage on the victron controller.


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## martinmartin (Oct 22, 2020)

Normal use for me is a couple hours telly and running blown heating at full fan and two led lights.4 amp hour tv 1 amp fan.last night        4 hours tv and heating well BSB was on and Judge Dredd should be compulsary viewing.Daytime im out working.


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## caledonia (Oct 22, 2020)

I think full members get a discount at Alpha Batteries?


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## wildebus (Oct 22, 2020)

barryd said:


> When I bought my last battery from Battery Megastore in Caen, France they fitted it free but to be honest even I could change a leisure battery. Nothing to it as long as you can lift it.
> 
> The conclusion to me here is buy cheap but not too cheap.  Next time I need one ill just do what I did last time and spend about a hundred quid from a known supplier with a long guarantee.   If it lasts as long as the last two 5-6 years then its more than good value.


And good for you .
But even if YOU can change it, plenty of other people cannot.
There are plenty (thousands and thousands) of batteries fitted in places where you have to remove cab seating to get to for example (the standard location for smaller Campervans and where I have fitted countless batteries).  Often that is beyond peoples comfort factor, toolkit, and/or physical abilities.
Would Battery Megastore have taken the seat off to fit a £100/€100 the battery and then refitted it for free?  Hmmm.  I wonder?


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## mfw (Oct 22, 2020)

wildebus said:


> And good for you .
> But even if YOU can change it, plenty of other people cannot.
> There are plenty (thousands and thousands) of batteries fitted in places where you have to remove cab seating to get to for example (the standard location for smaller Campervans and where I have fitted countless batteries).  Often that is beyond peoples comfort factor, toolkit, and/or physical abilities.
> Would Battery Megastore have taken the seat off to fit a £100/€100 the battery and then refitted it for free?  Hmmm.  I wonder?


Well a lot of people cant even change a standard bulb so it is choices again and up to individuals of what they can and cant do and just buy what you want and pay for fitting or fit yourself


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## trevskoda (Oct 22, 2020)

At £50 for changing batteries im now standing at the gate with a billboard advertising my services.


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## mfw (Oct 22, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> At £50 for changing batteries im now standing at the gate with a billboard advertising my services.


Yeah and getting the scrap value on the batteries as well


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## Penny13 (Oct 22, 2020)

We bought two 125’s that have served us well for four years they cost £145, we are about to replace them as they still work they are being passed onto others. As we full time over winter the new ones will keep us warmer just that bit longer.


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## Phantom (Oct 22, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> I suggest even a cheap battery will be OK if it is used regularly.
> @Phantom is Full-timinng I think. Just need to make sure he does not use too much power.


Yep, we are full-timing, don't use much power really, but having the two good leisure batteries now has made quite a noticable difference.


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## martinmartin (Oct 22, 2020)

Phantom said:


> Yep, we are full-timing, don't use much power really, but having the two good leisure batteries now has made quite a noticable difference.


In winter my electric use becomes minimal, l listen to radio off my phone, tv is minimal, heating is freestanding, hotwater is from the gas hob. At the moment there's still enough sun.


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## Phantom (Oct 22, 2020)

As said in our first post, just a cheap battery for convenience, only time will tell how long it lasts but is doing fine so far.


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## Mr and Mrs Tupcox (Oct 23, 2020)

Cheap batteries..2x110'numax yesterday switch tv on at 5pm lights .pump.normal.hab stuff..
Batteries reading 12.4 this morning..
Shall I buy some expensive new ones .like lithium lets say £1500''..
I think not .....
Lets see how long it takes to charge up .using low cost solar system .


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## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

martinmartin said:


> In winter my electric use becomes minimal, l listen to radio off my phone, tv is minimal, heating is freestanding, hotwater is from the gas hob. At the moment there's still enough sun.


Whats the free standing heating ,hope not a open gas fire.


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## martinmartin (Oct 23, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Whats the free standing heating ,hope not a open gas fire.


It sure is trev and I do not advocate using one but needs must.Ventilation is needed and after falling on it once and the burn scar to prove it I treat it with respect.I must add I was under the influence of alchohol when I fell.


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## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

martinmartin said:


> It sure is trev and I do not advocate using one but needs must.Ventilation is needed and after falling on it once and the burn scar to prove it I treat it with respect.I must add I was under the influence of alchohol when I fell.


Chap we know was working in a open sided shed cutting wood with a garage oil burner running, he fell off his seat and other chaps could not waken him, doc arrived and pronounced him dead, carbon monoxide poisoning, be very careful.


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## martinmartin (Oct 23, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Chap we know was working in a open sided shed cutting wood with a garage oil burner running, he fell off his seat and other chaps could not waken him, doc arrived and pronounced him dead, carbon monoxide poisoning, be very careful.


Will be carefull,Ive had the same setup about nine years.


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## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

martinmartin said:


> Will be carefull,Ive had the same setup about nine years.


Would you not fancy a diesel blower which is a good job.


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## martinmartin (Oct 23, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Would you not fancy a diesel blower which is a good job.


I put a 3kw chinese heater in during summer and its brilliant .The point of the free standing gas fire is it doesnt use electricity and when the solar isnt providing enough power thats when I use it,also it gives instant heat wich is what I need sometimes for short periods of time,in a morning for half an hour before going to work,a couple of hours on a night before bedtime.


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## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

martinmartin said:


> I put a 3kw chinese heater in during summer and its brilliant .The point of the free standing gas fire is it doesnt use electricity and when the solar isnt providing enough power thats when I use it,also it gives instant heat wich is what I need sometimes for short periods of time,in a morning for half an hour before going to work,a couple of hours on a night before bedtime.


Is it the we ones with a gas canister inside.


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## mfw (Oct 23, 2020)

Those small propane garage heaters dont look bad ( cheap enough ) saves blower on heating - if you had a quick connect fitting within the van although safety would be an issue - or put hose through small opening to bbq point - individual choice though


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## Mr and Mrs Tupcox (Oct 23, 2020)

Well that didn't take long dirty grey morning .
On isle of wight .sun is not showing his face .just odd blue sky , as the clouds pass by.
And bingo my cheapo batteries are all most done.
Thank you my cheapo solar system 


and regulator..
You dont need to buy the best to enjoy free power..


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## martinmartin (Oct 23, 2020)

mfw said:


> Those small propane garage heaters dont look bad ( cheap enough ) saves blower on heating - if you had a quick connect fitting within the van although safety would be an issue - or put hose through small opening to bbq point - individual choice though


Yes a flexible pipe to bbq point, l must stress this setup not considered appropriate.


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## Obanboy666 (Oct 23, 2020)

Being of little knowledge regarding batteries what are the benefits of buying an expensive 100 amp battery versus a cheapo 100 amp battery.
Do they drain at the same rate ?, 100 amps is a 100 amps regardless of battery cost I would have thought. Or Is it just that they will last longer before failing, have a longer warranty, charge quicker, etc, etc.


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## Steve and Julie (Oct 23, 2020)

Mr and Mrs Tupcox said:


> Well that didn't take long dirty grey morning .
> On isle of wight .sun is not showing his face .just odd blue sky , as the clouds pass by.
> And bingo my cheapo batteries are all most done.
> Thank you my cheapo solar system View attachment 88310and regulator..
> You dont need to buy the best to enjoy free power..


What power are your solar panels ? we need to upgrade our single 110 lead acid was thinking of getting lithium but if 2 lead acid and decent solar panels do the job I'm all for saving money
Regards Steve


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## wildebus (Oct 23, 2020)

Obanboy666 said:


> Being of little knowledge regarding batteries what are the benefits of buying an expensive 100 amp battery versus a cheapo 100 amp battery.
> Do they drain at the same rate ?, 100 amps is a 100 amps regardless of battery cost I would have thought. Or Is it just that they will last longer before failing, have a longer warranty, charge quicker, etc, etc.


OK.  I will give you an real life example involving the popular Banner Bull Batteries vs the Batteries I just got in yesterday to put in my Motorhome - so putting my money where my mouth is ...
Key Features of the two batteries

*Banner Bull 100Ah Battery*
£120
100Ah @C20 Discharge Rate
24.5Kg
2 Year Warranty
Requires periodic maintanance  (topping up of water)
Requires external venting
200 Cycles when taken down to 50% Discharge  (so it is expected that you can take out 50Ah 200 times before the performance is notably reduced and likely needs replacing.


*12V 100AH RITAR AGM LEAD CARBON ULTRA DEEP CYCLE  BATTERY*
 £190
100Ah @C20 Discharge Rate
29Kg
5 Year Warranty
Maintenance Free
No venting required
3000 Cycles when taken down to 50% Discharge  (so it is expected that you can take out 50Ah 3,000 times before the performance is notably reduced and likely needs replacing)

So why buy the more expensive battery?
Well, the warranty is twice as long.  It requires no maintenance  (so pretty well fit & forget) and you can take out 50Ah every day the year for over 8 years.  Do that with the Banner Bull battery and you will run out of cycles within 7 months.  And the more expensive battery will also not complain too much if you want to take 80Ah or even 90Ah out of the 100Ah battery and still give you nearly 10 times the cycle count the Banner Bull will taking just 50Ah out.

To me, paying an extra £70 for those benefits is a no-brainer.


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## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

Obanboy666 said:


> Being of little knowledge regarding batteries what are the benefits of buying an expensive 100 amp battery versus a cheapo 100 amp battery.
> Do they drain at the same rate ?, 100 amps is a 100 amps regardless of battery cost I would have thought. Or Is it just that they will last longer before failing, have a longer warranty, charge quicker, etc, etc.


Not much unless you buy a varta/bosch one which will not disintegrate internally as fast, remember that if you go down below about 30% it will shorten their life.
Now camper batteries are ment to have a different thickness of plates , but in fact many are just rebadged starter units.


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## Mr and Mrs Tupcox (Oct 23, 2020)

Steve and Julie said:


> What power are your solar panels ? we need to upgrade our single 110 lead acid was thinking of getting lithium but if 2 lead acid and decent solar panels do the job I'm all for saving money
> Regards Steve


300w


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## bartman (Oct 23, 2020)

I think in order to decide what to replace my two Banner batteries with, I would like to know whether an agm type would need an expensive upgrade to the alternator output, such as a B2B, being a 2002 van it's certainly not a newer smart alternator. Also would the fact that the vehicle battery is non-agm affect the split charging?
 I am beginning to think that the efb types might be more straightforward to charge.


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## wildebus (Oct 23, 2020)

bartman said:


> I think in order to decide what to replace my two Banner batteries with, I would like to know whether an agm type would need an expensive upgrade to the alternator output, such as a B2B, being a 2002 van it's certainly not a newer smart alternator. Also would the fact that the vehicle battery is non-agm affect the split charging?
> I am beginning to think that the efb types might be more straightforward to charge.


What kind of Split-charge system have you got? that is the first thing to know.  You may well have a B2B type of system fitted (even older vans sometimes did)
Next, bear in mind that a basic relay setup will not really look after _any _battery properly and efficiently anyway, as an alternator is not a battery charger.


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## bartman (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> What kind of Split-charge system have you got? that is the first thing to know.  You may well have a B2B type of system fitted (even older vans sometimes did)
> Next, bear in mind that a basic relay setup will not really look after _any _battery properly and efficiently anyway, as an alternator is not a battery charger.


The only relay I've seen is under the cover in the centre of the engine bay. I saw this mentioned in another thread on here this week, it's common to the Sevel type vans of that era. I don't know whether that is the relevant thing, and I'm not sure how to find out. As far as the other charging sources go, although the solar controller doesn't have a specific setting for agm, there is an option to set "user settings" for the voltage so presumably that would be OK. When on hookup I have a multi stage smart charger which presumably charges at the rate appropriate to the battery type


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## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> What kind of Split-charge system have you got? that is the first thing to know.  You may well have a B2B type of system fitted (even older vans sometimes did)
> Next, bear in mind that a basic relay setup will not really look after _any _battery properly and efficiently anyway, as an alternator is not a battery charger.


It is a charger, maybe just not the best at peaking power, but better than nothing.


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## wildebus (Oct 23, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> It is a charger, maybe just not the best at peaking power, but better than nothing.


An alternator is not a battery charger, it is a power supply.

And it depends if you want to settle for "better than nothing" doesn't it?


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## Obanboy666 (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> OK.  I will give you an real life example involving the popular Banner Bull Batteries vs the Batteries I just got in yesterday to put in my Motorhome - so putting my money where my mouth is ...
> Key Features of the two batteries
> 
> *Banner Bull 100Ah Battery*
> ...



I was looking at Trojan batteries when the cheapo ones die on my Pilote. But seriously considering the agm carbon type after your recent post a week or so ago.
May go for the Leoch 130 or 115 amp type to get as many amps onboard as possible. Fortunately my onboard charger allows me to select, lead acid, lithium, agm and gel up to 250 amps so should be ok and as you know being a Victron expert my Victron solar controller charge voltages can be adjusted to suit different battery types.


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## SquirrellCook (Oct 23, 2020)

Before investing in new batteries, if you have a simple split charge system buy something like this to put inline.  (series connection)  At least then your new batteries will be looked after.  http://www.onboardenergydirect.co.u...mart-Battery-Charger-non-isolated.html#SID=13


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## wildebus (Oct 23, 2020)

Obanboy666 said:


> I was looking at Trojan batteries when the cheapo ones die on my Pilote. But seriously considering the agm carbon type after your recent post a week or so ago.
> May go for the Leoch 130 or 115 amp type to get as many amps onboard as possible. Fortunately my onboard charger allows me to select, lead acid, lithium, agm and gel up to 250 amps so should be ok and as you know being a Victron expert my Victron solar controller charge voltages can be adjusted to suit different battery types.


The Trojans (T105s?) are good enough batteries but times have moved on, even in the world of Lead Acid batteries.  Plus they need regular maintenance and for me, that makes them a non-starter as I know I will just forget to check (other people may well be more diligent than I am, of course).
You have a charging setup that will allow you to use just about anything on the market,so you have a free choice, limited just by space, budget and maybe weight.

PS. If you were to look at Lithium, you would really need to get a Battery Monitor (if you don't currently) as it is the only way to monitor a Lithium Battery (a Voltmeter will only tell you when the battery is virtually empty).


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## ricc (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> An alternator is not a battery charger, it is a power supply.
> 
> And it depends if you want to settle for "better than nothing" doesn't it?


every vehicle ive owned that had an alternator it was connected to the battery....no other way to charge battery....something keeps it charged ...must be the alternator ...thats surely  the definition of a battery charger.

some of the plant theirs only an alternator, battery, starter motor and starter switch    nowt else to supply power to except the battery


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## wildebus (Oct 23, 2020)

ricc said:


> *every vehicle ive owned that had an alternator it was connected to the battery....no other way to charge battery....something keeps it charged* ...must be the alternator ...thats surely  the definition of a battery charger.
> 
> some of the plant theirs only an alternator, battery, starter motor and starter switch    nowt else to supply power to except the battery


Which is why, to keep a Starter Battery in the best condition, it is best to connect an actual BATTERY CHARGER to it on a periodic basis.

Don't agree?  No problem. Your choice.


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## mistericeman (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Which is why, to keep a Starter Battery in the best condition, it is best to connect an actual BATTERY CHARGER to it on a periodic basis.
> 
> Don't agree?  No problem. Your choice.



As much as I'd agree to a certain extent.... 
I reckon the bulk of vehicles never see a battery charger till the battery is completely knacked (at 2/3 years old ish) 

And having punished 3 x 100ah cheap leisure batteries over 3/4 years in the transit with only the alternator/Durite VSR /solar panels and £20 pwm charge controller looking after Them barring the occasional treat to a charge/recondition in the depths of winter... 

They are according to my work multimeter still sitting at 12.7v after being sat ignored off charge after a week or so..... 

Obviously off load BUT I'm frankly surprised they aren't below reading now.


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## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> An alternator is not a battery charger, it is a power supply.
> 
> And it depends if you want to settle for "better than nothing" doesn't it?


So how does a almost flat battery get charged by it.


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## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Which is why, to keep a Starter Battery in the best condition, it is best to connect an actual BATTERY CHARGER to it on a periodic basis.
> 
> Don't agree?  No problem. Your choice.


My last car went 15 years with never having a charger on it,alt only knocking out 14.4 volts but not sure of amps.


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## wildebus (Oct 23, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> So how does a almost flat battery get charged by it.


As I already said ...
Don't agree?  No problem. Your choice.

I will (or rather I will give you an example of an explaination via a link) why they are different ... 





						Do You Need a Power Supply or a Battery Charger? | APX Technologies
					






					apxonline.com
				





_The terms “Power Supply” and “Battery Charger” are often used interchangeably, but they perform distinct functions._
_A power supply is designed to supply a constant voltage to a load. As the load requirements change, it continues to supply a fixed DC level.

A true battery charger generally supplies a regulated current, first to charge the battery, and then switches to a regulated voltage mode. This is specifically required for Li-Ion chemistry where overcharging is not only damaging to the battery cells, but can also pose a possible fire hazard. A smart battery charger will not only never overcharge cells, but can also monitor battery temperature, switching off a fast charge when certain parameters are exceeded.

A power supply used as a charger cannot do this, and will continue to pump energy into a battery regardless of its condition; fully charged, battery fault, or shorted cells._
_In order to achieve maximum battery service life, a properly designed charger should always be used to charge cells._

Does an Alternator best match the description of an Battery Charger or an Power Supply as described above?
Which one would be better for your battery?

Answers on a Postcard to wherever you want (not me, as I already know the answer to this particular one)


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

Alt.


----------



## wildebus (Oct 23, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Alt.View attachment 88336


and what is this meant to explain? difference between an alternator and a battery?  relevence?


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> and what is this meant to explain? difference between an alternator and a battery?  relevence?


It says the alt charges the battery,yes i know only to about 90% and not as good as a smart charger, but for most this is all they have, i in winter use my onboard numax to top up and in summer my 200w solar though the voltronic to do the same,7 or so years on same batts and holding 12.7 after standing for 48 hrs, i do look at my batts and if required top up if required.


----------



## mark61 (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> As I already said ...
> Don't agree?  No problem. Your choice.
> 
> I will (or rather I will give you an example of an explaination via a link) why they are different ...
> ...



A power supply can be used a charger?


----------



## Obanboy666 (Oct 23, 2020)

SquirrellCook said:


> Before investing in new batteries, if you have a simple split charge system buy something like this to put inline.  (series connection)  At least then your new batteries will be looked after.  http://www.onboardenergydirect.co.u...mart-Battery-Charger-non-isolated.html#SID=13



When I fitted my additional solar panel, motorhome came with a 120 watt factory fitted panel, i decided to bypass the electrobloc solar controller and fit a Victron mppt solar controller which just charges the habitation batteries. The electrobloc has a built in split charge system which to date, 6 months on from fitting the extra solar panel and Victron controller is keeping both the vehicle and hab batteries fully charged.
I also have a CTEK charger which I use every 4/5 months on the recondition programme to ensure the batteries are in top condition.
Im no expert on batteries but as I’ve said to date everything appears to be working fine.


----------



## Phantom (Oct 23, 2020)

wildebus said:


> _In order to achieve maximum battery service life, a properly designed charger should always be used to charge cells._


I agree, but for a cheap battery who really cares too much! For a £65 battery is it really worth spending £200+ on a charger that may prolong it's life? We just bought this cheap battery to tide us over whilst assessing our power requirements and deciding if any upgrades are actually worthwhile for us. I expect this battery will maybe be good for several years with regular light use and solar/alt topping it up.


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2020)

Phantom said:


> I agree, but for a cheap battery who really cares too much! For a £65 battery is it really worth spending £200+ on a charger that may prolong it's life? We just bought this cheap battery to tide us over whilst assessing our power requirements and deciding if any upgrades are actually worthwhile for us. I expect the battery will maybe be good for several years with regular light use and solar/alt topping it up.


5 stage float numax charger £50 or a chinese one for £12, fit it on board.


----------



## Bigshug (Oct 23, 2020)

mark61 said:


> A power supply can be used a charger?


yes, I‘m using a 30 amp power supply To provide power to my Sterling B2B charger when on hook up. I use a changeover switch to change the  supply from the vehicle Battery when driving To the psu when on hook up, it works great.


----------



## wildebus (Oct 23, 2020)

Bigshug said:


> yes, I‘m using a 30 amp power supply To provide power to my Sterling B2B charger when on hook up. I use a changeover switch to change the  supply from the vehicle Battery when driving To the psu when on hook up, it works great.


No. You are using a Power Supply as a pretend Alternator to drive a Battery Charger.  If you were using it as a Charger, you would not have the B2B in between.


----------



## wildebus (Oct 24, 2020)

Phantom said:


> I agree, but for a cheap battery who really cares too much! For a £65 battery is it really worth spending £200+ on a charger that may prolong it's life? We just bought this cheap battery to tide us over whilst assessing our power requirements and deciding if any upgrades are actually worthwhile for us. I expect this battery will maybe be good for several years with regular light use and solar/alt topping it up.


Works for you and that is good.
doesn't change the facts.


----------



## Phantom (Oct 24, 2020)

wildebus said:


> Works for you and that is good.
> Doesn't change the facts.


It certainly doesn't, but one scenario does not fit all!


----------



## ricc (Oct 24, 2020)

Im


wildebus said:


> As I already said ...
> Don't agree?  No problem. Your choice.
> 
> I will (or rather I will give you an example of an explaination via a link) why they are different ...
> ...


Obviously written by someone trying to sell a smart battery charger.
Fact is alternators are fitted with regulators.  They chuck out a higher current to a flat battery  and drop to nothing on what they think is a fully charged one.  If they didn't reduce charge the overcharging would boil the acid away.....which just does not happen on vehicle batteries.

Sometimes it's better to stop digging....rather than to continue to try to justify a badly worded post, and personal opinions/beliefs presented as facts.


----------



## Robmac (Oct 24, 2020)

ricc said:


> Sometimes it's better to stop digging....rather than to continue to try to justify a badly worded post, and personal opinions/beliefs presented as facts.



A tad unfair Ricc. He may not use flowery language, but I think his technical advice is generally well respected on here.


----------



## wildebus (Oct 24, 2020)

Robmac said:


> A tad unfair Ricc. He may not use flowery language, but I think his technical advice is generally well respected on here.


And won't be bothering any more.


----------



## Robmac (Oct 24, 2020)

wildebus said:


> And won't be bothering any more.



I would.

As I say, usually well received and respected. Ignore personal digs and accept the positive views.


----------



## jagmanx (Oct 24, 2020)

wildebus said:


> And won't be bothering any more.


Why be put off by one unhelpful comment ?
many/most on here appreciate your posts and expertise.


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 24, 2020)

wildebus said:


> And won't be bothering any more.


I want you input so dont hide, a lot of your advice i have taken on board as regards to charging and solar regulators, folks have opinions right or wrong.


----------



## SquirrellCook (Oct 24, 2020)

wildebus said:


> And won't be bothering any more.


I guess it was your turn for pork exposure.
The trouble is , if something works it must be right?
Working well and efficient, is another story.


----------



## Robmac (Oct 24, 2020)

SquirrellCook said:


> I guess it was your turn for pork exposure.
> The trouble is , if something works it much be right?
> Working well and efficient, is another story.



I agree.

My own system is working very well and suits our needs down to the ground. I could probably improve it with lithium batteries and bigger solar panels but don't see the need. But I don't mind being told of the possibilities.


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 24, 2020)

Just seen this for those who like watching batteries, works to mobile.


----------



## davep10000 (Oct 24, 2020)

wildebus said:


> And won't be bothering any more.


That would be a shame, as I believe 99% of us (often the less vocal ones!) appreciate your experience & expertise (and I say that as a qualified electronic engineer with 40 years of designing systems for military vehicles).
Dave.


----------



## SquirrellCook (Oct 24, 2020)

In my limited experience, if you haven't studied the behaviour of a battery used for your motorhome use.  Just buy the cheapest!  Your probably going to kill it anyways.
Starter batteries are a whole subject on there own.  I've known people who drive a mile once a week and get 10 years out of a battery.  Others seem to kill them at an alarming rate.  Putting your car or motorhome on to a smart charger once a month can't do any harm.  Even if your smart charger is fake.  I suspect many are.
A good adjustable smart charger is best and a knowledge of what the battery wants.  What will you gain from this expense, not much I expect.
When using a split charge system both batteries will never get fully charged.  The engine start battery will probably tolerate it, but as there is a voltage drop to the second battery the plates will swell with sulphate deposits.  Adding more batteries will only make it worse.
Lead acid batteries like a good hard charge when discharged with a long absorption stage.  I doubt if you will drive long enough to finish the absorption stage with any kind of battery to battery charging system.
If you have solar, you have the chance to finish of the absorption stage.  That's assuming your demands don't exceed your capacity either in solar or batteries.
Now this is where I think the money is worth spending.  A real MPPT solar charger with adjustable voltage settings.  Remember this is for one battery or a matched set.  The solar charger might be smart, but it doesn't know how silly you've been!

So if this reads ok and makes sense, you can see why it would be best to learn how to look after cheap batteries.   
Another thing to remember if your using a stupid size inverter with welding cables connected to it, you'll want a full traction or starter battery for it.  The high current demands will bend the plates on a traditional leisure battery.

I've just touched on the subject, there much smarter people here with more first hand experience.  Please don't annoy them, they are only trying to make you experience better.


----------



## Markd (Oct 24, 2020)

When considering new batteries it is very important to take I to account what you are going to use them for and how you will recharge them.
It's very likely that your existing motorhome charging system will be set up (but not optimised) for standard lead acid batteries.
AGM batteries require a much higher voltage for the main charge phase and apparently only a few of the continental converters installed AGM chargers.
Solar controllers are better in this respect as most are built to match lead acid, AGM and lithium batteries.
AGM batteries are very sensitive to temperature (because the electrolyte is 'trapped' and can't circulate to dissipate heat) for this reason major car manufacturers are moving away from them after premature failures in hot climes. I've seen charts showing very short life for vehicles run in desert conditions. Sat in southern Spain in the summer with no cooling could be close to that.
Therefore if you use your batteries to deliver large currents for sustained periods such as cooking via an inverter you can seriously eat into the cycle life available.
I remain of the view that there's a lot to be said for wet/flooded batteries for most of us.


----------



## Phantom (Oct 25, 2020)

SquirrellCook said:


> If you have solar, you have the chance to finish off the absorption stage. Now this is where I think the money is worth spending. A real MPPT solar charger with adjustable voltage settings.


I've also seemed to arrive at that conclusion whether cost effective or not!


----------



## Pedalman (Oct 25, 2020)

Geeky Philip said:


> I have just read all the real reviews for these batteries on eBay. I would recommend that you DO NOT buy these batteries as they are reported to be poor quality and they appear not to honour the guarantee.


Looks like these batteries have problems with quality consistency, reading the reviews some have lasted four years and some will not charge after only a few hour of use.  I suppose you takes your chances.


----------



## Pedalman (Oct 25, 2020)

mfw said:


> Dont think batteries on a motorhome last long anyway purely to the amount of time the vehicles sit around idle and batteries do like to be worked - and point i'm making is the battery is barely getting used so will deteriorate faster than a getting used all the time


Yes, constant use is the key to battery longevity. I've had a Yuasa 110 ah leisure battery in my T4 for eight years but its my everyday vehicle.


----------



## Chrisinchip (Oct 25, 2020)

wildebus said:


> OK.  I will give you an real life example involving the popular Banner Bull Batteries vs the Batteries I just got in yesterday to put in my Motorhome - so putting my money where my mouth is ...
> Key Features of the two batteries
> 
> *Banner Bull 100Ah Battery*
> ...


Good to see mention of charge cycles   Warranty in terms of years is almost meaningless. The number of charge cycles a manufacturer claims is the best indication of battery quality. A poor quality battery *may* last a lot of cycles but a good quality battery is more likely to survive trouble free. However, accidentally flattening any lead-acid battery will seriously shorten its life.


----------



## maingate (Oct 25, 2020)

I am intrigued by this thread and wonder how people have battery problems?

My paired Numax batteries always last 6 years before showing signs of loss of efficiency.

My last van was 11 years old when I sold it with the original engine battery working fine. My current van is 14 years old and the battery seems to be original (if not, I have had it for nearly 7 years anyway). I have never had to buy an engine battery for around 30+ years.

Maybe an engineering background, an understanding of how things work and awareness of routine checks and maintenance has saved me a lot of work and expense.


----------



## Robmac (Oct 25, 2020)

maingate said:


> I am intrigued by this thread and wonder how people have battery problems?
> 
> My paired Numax batteries always last 6 years before showing signs of loss of efficiency.
> 
> ...



Good to hear from you Jim.


----------



## maingate (Oct 25, 2020)

Robmac said:


> Good to hear from you Jim.



Can't pm you Rob, so thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## molly 2 (Oct 25, 2020)

I just wanted to be the 100 post  ,hope you get a good  battery life


----------



## Robmac (Oct 25, 2020)

maingate said:


> Can't pm you Rob, so thanks for your thoughts.



I've just checked my settings Jim and the privacy is set to receive PM's from all members so I'm not sure what has happened there.


----------



## Robmac (Oct 25, 2020)

molly 2 said:


> I just wanted to be the 100 post  ,hope you get a good  battery life



You failed there then Bazz!


----------



## molly 2 (Oct 25, 2020)

Mr and Mrs Tupcox said:


> Cheap batteries..2x110'numax yesterday switch tv on at 5pm lights .pump.normal.hab stuff..
> Batteries reading 12.4 this morning..
> Shall I buy some expensive new ones .like lithium lets say £1500''..


Yes you should  they will last you until you are    110  years old  , you know it makes  sense


----------



## molly 2 (Oct 25, 2020)

1977paul said:


> Having purchased exactly the same type of battery from Numberonebatteries, Luton on eBay it failed after all of two weeks very light usage to the degree it was giving off fumes that set the carbon monoxide alarm off. Company refuse to refund me, insisting I return the battery for testing.....an expensive exercise that I will only undertake if I find the need to go that way for other reasons.
> I sourced a replacement from my local eurocarparts, bit more money but far more peace of mind. Look on eBay at the company, they get very mixed reviews!


Wny not return it . At least give them a a chance to sort it for you


----------



## molly 2 (Oct 25, 2020)

Robmac said:


> You failed there then Bazz!


OH no  I'll  go for 200 then


----------



## maingate (Oct 25, 2020)

Mr and Mrs Tupcox said:


> Cheap batteries..2x110'numax yesterday switch tv on at 5pm lights .pump.normal.hab stuff..
> Batteries reading 12.4 this morning..
> Shall I buy some expensive new ones .like lithium lets say £1500''..
> I think not .....
> Lets see how long it takes to charge up .using low cost solar system .



I would hold off in buying any of these new type of batteries just yet .... unless you wear asbestos clothing. 









						Hyundai to recall 77,000 Kona electric cars over risk of battery fire, fights LG Chem over cause
					

Hyundai is reportedly preparing to recall 77,000 Kona electric cars worldwide over the risk of a battery fire as the...




					electrek.co
				












						Ford recalls thousands of plug-in hybrid Kuga SUVs over fire concerns
					

The petrol-electric hybrid Kugas were launched only in May and the recall affects 1,800 owners in the UK out of an estimated 27,000 globally.




					www.thisismoney.co.uk
				












						Audi Recalls Its First Electric Car for Battery Fire Risk
					

Volkswagen AG luxury brand Audi is recalling its first all-electric vehicle due to the risk of a battery fire.




					fortune.com
				



.









						Auto Makers Grapple With Battery-Fire Risks in Electric Vehicles
					

The companies are confronting a new challenge in their race to sell more electric cars: battery-related fires leading to vehicle recalls and safety probes.




					www.wsj.com


----------



## Admin (Oct 25, 2020)

Sighs...

These articles are not about LiFePO4 batteries that are used in motorhomes. LiFePO4 was discovered in 1950 and has been used in batteries for nearly 25 years. LiFePO4 batteries are the safest type of lithium batteries.

I really don’t understand why so many people have this prejudice against LiFePO4 batteries to the point where they post articles about completely different battery chemistries to produce FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).

So to sum up...

Lithium Iron Phosphate(LiFePO4) — LFP batteries are not Lithium Cobalt Oxide(LiCoO2) — LCO batteries.

Lithium Iron Phosphate(LiFePO4) — LFP batteries are not Lithium Manganese Oxide (LiMn2O4) — LMO batteries.

Lithium Iron Phosphate(LiFePO4) — LFP batteries are not Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide (LiNiMnCoO2) — NMC batteries.

Lithium Iron Phosphate(LiFePO4) — LFP batteries are not Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide (LiNiCoAlO2) — NCA batteries.

Lithium Iron Phosphate(LiFePO4) — LFP batteries are not Lithium Titanate (Li2TiO3) — LTO batteries.

Lithium Iron Phosphate(LiFePO4) — LFP batteries are safe, have a 99% charge efficiency, are cheaper over their lifespan, have great stamina under heavy loads, charge faster, can be mounted in any direction, are half the weight, provide twice the power for the same volume and smart batteries have a BMS with a host of safety and management features.



Geeky Philip


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2020)

I would have to live a long time to get my value out of expensive batteries, i have 7 years to go for the redo driving test as my van is 6.3 ton plated, now if i was 40 years old yes i would fit the best batts, but as for now mine do the job.


----------



## molly 2 (Oct 25, 2020)

Lifpe04 100 amp  batterys  will shortly be available  from alpha batterys  about  £ 500    , 2 100 amp  agm could be £ 350 .taking into account the weight  and space  saving  jn a smaller  van is tempting ,  if they are drop in  replacement .


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2020)

molly 2 said:


> Lifpe04 100 amp  batterys  will shortly be available  from alpha batterys  about  £ 500    , 2 100 amp  agm could be £ 350 .taking into account the weight  and space  saving  jn a smaller  van is tempting ,  if they are drop in  replacement .


Thats £1000 for two lipos , so my l/acids at 90 fro two and lasting im sure ten years id have to live to 163 years of age, wonder what state i shall be in by then.


----------



## molly 2 (Oct 25, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Thats £1000 for two lipos , so my l/acids at 90 fro two and lasting im sure ten years id have to live to 163 years of age, wonder what state i shall be in by then.


100 amp  lifepo4  equivalent  to 200 amp  agm  50%   DOD   £500   . We are told we are .living  longer .


----------



## Admin (Oct 25, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> my l/acids at 90 fro two and lasting im sure ten years



Only if you use them only 20 times per year.


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2020)

WEll i must say mine are lightly used but phils van must have good batteries for internet use and all the toys.


----------



## molly 2 (Oct 25, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> WEll i must say mine are lightly used but phils van must have good batteries for internet use and all the toys.


Well he dose have the biggest array on all 3 sites


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2020)

Correct, so your batts should fit the job intended.


----------



## maingate (Oct 25, 2020)

Geeky Philip said:


> Sighs...
> 
> These articles are not about LiFePO4 batteries that are used in motorhomes. LiFePO4 was discovered in 1950 and has been used in batteries for nearly 25 years. LiFePO4 batteries are the safest type of lithium batteries.
> 
> ...



That's why I used an emoji to show it was not a serious post. At least it might help someone thinking of buying an electric car (or Motorhome).


----------



## Savara (Oct 26, 2020)

I bought two of the same batteries - Probat 110Ah - £65 off that auction site. One of them started leaking acid after only two months of light use. 4 year warranty? The seller simply stated "they only leak if you over charge them". I am an electrical engineer and they were set up perfectly with the correct charge controller settings. The seller basically ignored my emails from that point. I escalated this to a Paypal claim and their response eventually was: "Return both batteries in the original packing for investigation works" .Total cop out. Who has the original packing after several months? So, yeah, you get what you pay for. Most warranties on Ebay are worth nothing. Too cheap to be true? It usually is. You might be lucky though..


----------



## molly 2 (Oct 26, 2020)

4 year warranty  on £65 battery   would set of alarm  bells


----------



## trevskoda (Oct 26, 2020)

molly 2 said:


> 4 year warranty  on £65 battery   would set of alarm  bells


Only if its well charged.


----------



## Pedalman (Dec 17, 2021)

wildebus said:


> OK.  I will give you an real life example involving the popular Banner Bull Batteries vs the Batteries I just got in yesterday to put in my Motorhome - so putting my money where my mouth is ...
> Key Features of the two batteries
> 
> *Banner Bull 100Ah Battery*
> ...


Where did you buy your Ritar battery from ,I would like to buy one but  Im having difficulty finding the one you mention in your comment 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## wildebus (Dec 17, 2021)

Pedalman said:


> Where did you buy your Ritar battery from ,I would like to buy one but  Im having difficulty finding the one you mention in your comment
> Thanks in advance.


From Alpha, but they have replaced the AGM version with a GEL model.  Same manufacturer but badged Xplorer.


----------



## Pedalman (Dec 17, 2021)

wildebus said:


> From Alpha, but they have replaced the AGM version with a GEL model.  Same manufacturer but badged Xplorer.


  I was looking at the Xplorer range thinking it can't be the same thing but it must be an upgrade / improvement.  Thanks again for  your quick reply.


----------



## Herman (Dec 17, 2021)

Phantom, it would be interesting to have an annual update on your £65 battery, how's it holding out, have you noticed any lack or drop in performance over your previous battery


----------



## wildebus (Dec 18, 2021)

Pedalman said:


> I was looking at the Xplorer range thinking it can't be the same thing but it must be an upgrade / improvement.  Thanks again for  your quick reply.


Basically, there are folk who like AGM and folk who like Gel  (and folk who don't care, they just want a decent battery - I'm in that camp).   Alpha switched to the Gel version from the same manufacturer to widen their offerings in the Gel area.
I would have been happy with either one.  It is not the very bestest battery on the market, but for the money it is a very decent option IMO.


----------



## Markd (Dec 18, 2021)

From what I've read AGM and Gel are a bit sensitive to heat - so in southern Spain and Morocco you may think about that.
Apparently it was one of real reasons that BMW moved batteries into the boot away from their congested engine bays.
My Skoda has token insulation around the battery under the bonnet - can't see it doing much good with inevitable heat soak during a hard run.
Either way in this country I can't see overheating during high current charging being a major issue


----------



## Phantom (Dec 18, 2021)

Herman said:


> Phantom, it would be interesting to have an annual update on your £65 battery, how's it holding out, have you noticed any lack or drop in performance over your previous battery


Since fitting the cheap Probat battery we have lived in the MH full-time for a year. The Probat battery has been just fine, it is coupled to Yuasa battery which is 2 years older than it, maybe a bit of a mis-match but they seem about equal. Our power usage is quite low so the batteries haven't really gone much below about 80% and we had EHU all of last winter. We are not using MH this winter so I just give all batteries a top up charge every so often. I see no reason why the Probat shouldn't last us for many years but will update with any change in performance.


----------



## molly 2 (Dec 18, 2021)

Batterys are a bit like baileys  say £ 18 a bottle. Aldi  lidle £4  a bottle so aldi for my coffee . as for batterys  pay up or take a chance


----------



## trevskoda (Dec 18, 2021)

Im running almost 9 years on global truck batteries which were as cheap as chips.


----------



## Robmac (Dec 19, 2021)

My first boat had an ordinary car battery for starting and habitation., and it was attached to a 10W solar charger.

Used for lighting and watching a 12v TV and water pump to the sink, it worked a treat and was still going strong when we sold the boat a couple of years later.


----------



## wildebus (Dec 19, 2021)

Robmac said:


> My first boat had an ordinary car battery for starting and habitation., and it was attached to a 10W solar charger.
> 
> Used for lighting and watching a 12v TV and water pump to the sink, it worked a treat and was still going strong when we sold the boat a couple of years later.


How long did you use the TV for?


----------



## Robmac (Dec 19, 2021)

wildebus said:


> How long did you use the TV for?



Usually a couple of hours. Once though we fell asleep watching it and it was still on in the morning.


----------



## Aethelric (Dec 26, 2021)

My Banner battery lasted around 4 years.  I've got a Panasonic battery in there now. It's been in three years and is still doing OK. I've done a write up about my mods to the van's electrical system including my experience with batteries. There is a link below if anyone is interested.
We haven't used it near as much in the last couple of years due to some bug that's going around. 

https://2045.co.uk/auto-sleepers-nuevo/


----------



## wildebus (Dec 26, 2021)

Aethelric said:


> My Banner battery lasted around 4 years.  I've got a Panasonic battery in there now. It's been in three years and is still doing OK. I've done a write up about my mods to the van's electrical system including my experience with batteries. There is a link below if anyone is interested.
> We haven't used it near as much in the last couple of years due to some bug that's going around.
> 
> https://2045.co.uk/auto-sleepers-nuevo/


Had an initial look at your link and will look forward to reading in detail as sounds interesting 

Like you, I bought a Motorhome (AutoTrail in my case) and really like it but the electrics definately needed updating.  Put my updates on the sister Motorhomebuilder.com forum


----------



## trevskoda (Dec 26, 2021)

After reading and listening to wildebus i had to do a complete rebuild of electrics, numax charger is behind the fuse box.


----------



## Markd (Dec 27, 2021)

witzend said:


> Usually recommended as best practice  to replace all in the bank at the same time with matching batteries



If both van and hab batteries are same size there is a school of thought that suggests moving hab to starter when buying new leisure before it's completely gone.
Starter batteries have a much easier time only being called upon to work for a few seconds at a time normally getting recharged straightaway.
Of course they do need voltage keeping up when parked up but a bit of solar should be enough for that.

I had my starterbattery go down to 3.3V once 5 years ago (months of alarm standby) - it wouldn't charge using smart charger of course and even old fashioned charger wouldn't touch it. But I jump started (after a 20 minutes hook up) and the alternator then did the business.
I put in a dual channel solar regulator and fairly unbelievably it's been fine ever since - saying so will probably sound its death knell


----------



## trevskoda (Dec 27, 2021)

My solar reg does both, one amp to starter, my on board 10ah numax will also charge starter and hab with a switch and 200ah relay running through battery cable, this gives me the advantage of starting the engine using all batteries if required.


----------



## scoobydiver (Dec 27, 2021)

Phantom said:


> We're still deciding on the most suitable upgrades for our generally low moho power usage. Recently one of our FLA leisure batteries was finally declared about dead so looked for a convenient and quick replacement as we are moving about. Saw one on ebay 110Ah for £65 delivered next day, ordered at 5pm and it was delivered at 9am next morning, so seemed a convenient punt. But it has made a world of difference, so am very happy with our purchase. Not talking here about battery technology nor long livety at all as was just a cheap temporary solution to suit our current needs.
> But now in more detail just looking at what we actually got for £65 delivered next day!
> Well it appears to be a generic 110Ah, mainenance free, wet lead battery, labeled Probat, containing "Expanded Metal Technology (EMT) by using lead-calcium alloy in the production of battery plates, alledgedly proven to deliver increased reliability and longevity of an automotive battery." Claimed to be dual purpose starter/deep cycle? It has a 4 year guarantee, so seemed a no brainer for the price?


I had 3 x 110ah probat batteries and used them for 6 years they were still working well when I sold the van , bought a new van but only 98ah battery , already doubled this but with no room for more solar so no point in more batteries.


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## mistericeman (Dec 27, 2021)

scoobydiver said:


> I had 3 x 110ah probat batteries and used them for 6 years they were still working well when I sold the van , bought a new van but only 98ah battery , already doubled this but with no room for more solar so no point in more batteries.


Had the same thing when we went from home built Transit Jumbo 
To the Fiat Motorhome.... 

The single 90 ah battery was woefully inadequate... 
Now up to 3 x 105 ah AGM batteries 
400w solar panel 
Ring Rscdc30 combined solar MPPT/B2B charger 
Victron BLUE SMART IP22 CHARGER 12V 30AMP 3 Output charger 
And victron 800w inverter 
Victron smart shunt 

All to make it as capable of off grid as the transit was.... 

I've had a couple of moments where I've wondered whether I should've just stuck with the Transit lol


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## wildebus (Dec 27, 2021)

mistericeman said:


> Had the same thing when we went from home built Transit Jumbo
> To the Fiat Motorhome....
> 
> The single 90 ah battery was woefully inadequate...
> ...


I guess it depends on your carpentry skills, but after redoing the electrics in my Motorhome, I have the kind of electrical setup I would have put in a Self-build, but with the interior build quality that - in my own case and skill levels - I could only dream of.   
Win-Win


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## mistericeman (Dec 27, 2021)

Sa


wildebus said:


> I guess it depends on your carpentry skills, but after redoing the electrics in my Motorhome, I have the kind of electrical setup I would have put in a Self-build, but with the interior build quality that - in my own case and skill levels - I could only dream of.
> Win-Win





wildebus said:


> I guess it depends on your carpentry skills, but after redoing the electrics in my Motorhome, I have the kind of electrical setup I would have put in a Self-build, but with the interior build quality that - in my own case and skill levels - I could only dream of.
> Win-Win


Same here.... My woodworking is definitely NOT my strong point... 

And the extra space is nice too.... 

The extra exterior size... Less so. 

I can probably see myself going back to a self build again BUT on a 4.7/5m metre back rather than the 4m of the transit Jumbo to give us the extra room for a toilet/shower but still the same open layout we had in the transit.


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## Markd (Dec 27, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> My solar reg does both, one amp to starter, my on board 10ah numax will also charge starter and hab with a switch and 200ah relay running through battery cable, this gives me the advantage of starting the engine using all batteries if required.View attachment 104535



Have Votronic cancelled your sponsorship deal?


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## martinmartin (Dec 30, 2021)

Bought two of these probats (post #9) September 2020 and they are doing well, l think a lot of the complaints about them were to do with their delivery.


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