# Air ride suspension



## David & Ann (Oct 27, 2010)

Thinking of having air ride suspension fitted. Seen quotes from £470 upwards (to buy) + 2 hours to fit  extra. Is this the norm?  Would appreciate your comments on this subject. Thanks in advance.


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## David & Ann (Oct 27, 2010)

Thanks Graham. Is it only at the rear that they fit or can the front also be done?


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## Tco (Oct 28, 2010)

Price and fitting time seems about right. (I fitted my own). One thing, you will find the difference in ride much to your advantage. Our van is much more stable on both motorways and back roads. I wanted to increase the MGW of my van to give more leeway with loading. In fact I set the MGW at 3500kg (it could have been higher) as I am 70 next year and it reduces licence complications.  
I beleive it is possible to upgrade the front suspension but that would double the cost for very little advantage.


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## David & Ann (Oct 28, 2010)

Thanks TCO & Graham for your advice. I reckon next week I will be riding on air.


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## Kontiki (Oct 28, 2010)

Has anybody down rated their MGW  Not that I'm thinking of doing it but is it just a case of informing the DVLA (just thinking if I was selling my van & it was an issue for the buyer) My van was originally 3.5t (when I ordered it was supposed to be 3.85t) there are no mods required to the chassis & the dealer supplied me with the new weight plate. I took this to the DVLA office along with the V5 & they changed it giving me a small refund on the road tax.


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## alanval (Oct 28, 2010)

We had the Airide fitted at the Northern show Knutsford  within a week it had gone down,saw them again at Malvern show and they fitted another air bag one was faulty so its fine now.With ours being a Hymer we had to have spacer blocks fitted as well  another £180  Grooooann ..... SO cost us £680 .....The stability difference ia amazing especially on the Roads when a large vehicle passes or ,before I actually though we could tip over we swayed about so much.The back end is a bit higher thank goodness for the double step you can ajust the airbags for levelling and pump them up again before you go if you wanted to .We havnt bothered to do that yet....We carry a small 12v air pump with us the valve is just inside the passenger door....
 Val


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## vwalan (Oct 28, 2010)

hi kontiki . its really easy . as its a voluntary lowering .its just a form filling in exercise i do it all the time .you dont need a new vin plat all you need is a sticker label can be hand written stuck by the old weight plate .you visit your local dvla and they say oh yes .take your log book and in a few days you get a new one. we do it to allow 5ers to have a great train weight .but not be over 3,500kg for driving licence purposes. i can let you have 11ton traiweight yet drive on a car licence .using a 7,5ton mitsubishi with the gvw of unit dropped to 3,500kg kerb weight will allow 350kg on the pin with unit full tanks and 6 people. if you have probs get in touch . cheers aslan.


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## vwalan (Oct 28, 2010)

yes . check that the tyres are al ok for weight take all the info you have and visit your local dvla . they may come outside and check you have done what you said or may visit you at your house . but it really can be that easy. upgrading requires proof down grading voluntarily is the easiest. i down grade trucks and trailers like mine often . when you contact companies like svtec they need to get back the cost of time etc used in finding out the info .and possibly visiting dvla with your paper work. they dont make a fortune out of it. changing larger commercials takes alot of time effort and work some times .they do chassis lengthening and shortening etc . thats really their main work. campers can be a pest to them. i was suprised when i first shortened mine i didnt need a full vosa inspection as its private pulling a living van. they just wanted to see the tipping gear removed and the fifth wheel attached . didnt even need the brake conversion at the time of the dvla inspection. i imagined they would want brake read outs etc but no log book wil be with you in a couple of days thank you. try it save a shilling on tax.


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## vwalan (Oct 28, 2010)

possibly they might want to see the vehicle if you have airassist on it take all that as well. never known them to ask for bolts removed .does seem daft .put them back in later. i have three different fifth wheels here all mounted different . but who knows . try it . its free. 
cheers alan.
remember when you fit airassisted suspension you lower your payload if you dont upgrade as you are carrying extra weight. bit like putting bigger /helper springs .


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## vwalan (Oct 28, 2010)

i always say try to use the system to your advantage . dont try to break the rules just abide by them .but study hard . there are some very good rules /laws . cheers alan.


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## Tco (Oct 28, 2010)

Kontiki said:


> Has anybody down rated their MGW  Not that I'm thinking of doing it but is it just a case of informing the DVLA (just thinking if I was selling my van & it was an issue for the buyer) My van was originally 3.5t (when I ordered it was supposed to be 3.85t) there are no mods required to the chassis & the dealer supplied me with the new weight plate. I took this to the DVLA office along with the V5 & they changed it giving me a small refund on the road tax.


 
Kontiki: Originally my van as supplied was 3300kg MGW (or MTLP whatever) When setting out on our first long trip (Scotland) I dropped in at the local weighbridge and had it check weighed. I was surprised how close we were to the axle limits. Hence the decision to fit air suspension. This COULD have allowed me to up rate the MGW to around 3800kg., but as mentioned before I chose to set the MGW at 3500kg. I got the new VIN plate from SV Tech and sent off the associated certificate and the V5 to DVLA and it went through ok if a little s l o w l y. If you are down rating you can pretty well decide what MGW you want and that is a paper excercise without  any vehicle mods.  If you want to upgrade some MH's can be done as a paper excercise, it depends on the model (ask SV Tech).

In your scenario above provided you have the right documents (SV Tech again) and indeed the correct suspension fitted already, any subsequent purchaser COULD if they wished establish a new MGW at the prefferred 3850kg.  I have been delighted with mine, (NOT Air Ride incidentally I bought mine from VB Air Suspension UK Ltd) as it helps the handling and gives me peace of mind over not exceeding the legal weight limit.


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## Byronic (Oct 29, 2010)

I thought Airide were spring assisters ie they help lift the vehicle ride height, which may or may not improve handling etc. but they don't increase load capacity?


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2010)

the only way you can increase load capacity is get it s plated weight changed anything you add to the vehicle can only lower its payload as you are carrying more weight. before you put in your stuff. even an extra leaf in the springs can decrease the load . (if on leaf springs .)most of the up grades are only paper changes . i would just go to dvla and say change this please . save the money try it first may cost nothing. cheers alan.


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2010)

i always agree get the highest payload you can. i,ve always said a coach built under about 5ton is usless . even a van conversion is soon over loaded . and you get cheap tax thats a bonus.


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2010)

i,m sure they buy a big one and think this will hold alot . not a thought of weight . we have to blame sales men and then take the purchaser round the back and shoot them and the salesman. you only have to look at specs in mmm and some /most wont carry as many people as there is berths for. trouble is the driving licence came down to meet the french italians etc . glad we are a bit older . but i cant understand half of what happens in the world ever.


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## Byronic (Oct 29, 2010)

There are advantages in being under 3.5 tonnes eg higher speed limits, easier to obtain vehicle recovery insurance, vehicle insirance easier, workshop hoist loading often restricted to 3.5t max. access to town centres and carparks, possibly cheaper tyres, etc etc.


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2010)

but its the same vehicle nothing as changed nobody knows or cares . but get stopped over loaded and then watch out. 
you dont have to stick a sticker on the side saying my vans been up graded . cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Oct 29, 2010)

Being really picky here, but the VED disc states HGV and the least you,d have to worry about is Police ANPRS or any jobsworth who happens to take a close interest in your disc.


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## vwalan (Oct 29, 2010)

what police etc understand the differance in france you would hardly ever get pulled as they rarely have over 3,500kg . i think spain didnt and never as had car over 3,500kg . so theydont care. i could be wrong . but then look what i drive . is it a truck is it a camper is it a car and caravan . nearly didnt beable to drive it today but will fill you in when i see you . unless you see me coming and try and hide. i shall mess them soon by changing mine to 3,500kg gvw . that should cause a few bits of fuss hee hee ,


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## NicknClair (Oct 30, 2010)

Hi Guys,
Have had a good look through this thread and saw references that may shed light on what is going on with this type of chassis plating.
My Kontiki 635 (04 Plate) has 3 x chassis plates, YES 3!!
One is the original Fiat Auto plate, when the "cab section" of the chassis was manufactured. This would have been just the cab shipped up to Swift/Alko before it became a Motorhome. This plate claims to have a max weight of 3500kg.

Second plate is the Alko Chassis plate, mounted right next to the Original Fiat, using the same chassis numers, BUT giving an overall weight of 4000KG!

Third is the Swift build plate, just inside the habitation door area. The data on this plate matches exactly to the Alko's data plate. Bottom line, both the Alko and Swift data plates match to what is typed on the V5.

According to DVLA (VOSA) when I checked that I was fine and was rated a 4000KG (as I needed the weight to carry equipment), my conclussion was that the Fiat Plate never gets modified when going into production certainly when it's an Alko set-up. I would only guess that somewhere on an Alko set-up is their own plate confirming the chassis upgrade somewhere. There certainly is one on mine!!

Hope some of this info helps


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## lebesset (Oct 30, 2010)

hate to tell you this alan , but since their driving licence modification the french police have been instructed to get tough on motorhome  [ and caravan ] overloading 

last summer they were stopping and weighing at least 50% of the motorhomes travelling on the west coast and rhone valley routes 

a gendarme friend of mine tells me that because the french basically only have 3.5 tonne licences they buy 3.5 tonne vehicles , so the gendarmerie were told to close their eyes to an overload of up to 5% ; now they have restored the over 3.5 licence to older drivers in motorhomes that instruction appears to have been cancelled 

they are getting tougher in france , the mortality on the roads is still too high and they are having another purge ...I am recently in receipt of a speeding ticket ....33mph in a 30mph zone ...€135


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## lebesset (Oct 30, 2010)

don't know how we got on to overloading ....as we all know fitting suspension aids doesn't increase the weight marked on the plate!

I looked carefully at this , unfortunately my A class hymer has a slight nose down attitude , not significant , but I certainly would not increase it ; I don't wish to increase the weight limit so looked for a different solution that would give me better stability and cushioning without the height increase

so I bought the preferred n.american system  , Timbren ; these are hollow rubber springs which replace the bump stops , and are sized according to the weight and springs of the vehicle , when fitted they just touch so that they act immediately the suspension is compressed but there is no increase in height; a canadian friend brought me the kit [ canadian manufacture , FPR001 fits fiat 230/240/244 chassis , so presumably citroen/peugot also ] at a cost of £150 with a lifetime guarantee ; don't know what other kits are available , I understand the european importer is in cambridge

really must get around to fitting them before going off for the winter !


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## Byronic (Oct 30, 2010)

Vwalan you may fool some of the Police some of the time but you won't fool all the Police all of the time, but seriuosly I'm just making the point that if you can manage with 3.5t it might be a good idea to stick with it. 
I'm sure some vanners still appear to be under the illusion that Airide and some other assisters permit a greater payload. 
I've also seen where the fitting of assisters inboard of the existing spring results in a changed fulcrum point and  therefore a longer lever arm result..... a bent axle tube.


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2010)

there used to be a ball system sold here that woked in a similar fashion .havent seen it for a whie but i think firestone made it . cheers alan.


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2010)

byronic . do i try to fool the police .come on with my set up its pretty obvious i,m not 3,500kg and i have more carrying capacity than 3,500kg to start with. i understand where you are coming from though. and talk with vosa regularly .i know they stop lots down here and they run competions between themselves as to how many they will get over loaded . like you i know people that think doing suspension and axle up 
grades allow more pay load but forget to alter the paper work. its paper work that gives the up grade in the end. looking underladen is hopeless on a weighbridghe . its whats on the dial that counts. as for driving around i have no probs but then have spent a while driving full artics so think a bit different to a car driver. also having hightop campers for years again lk for dfferent places and it becomes automatic as i drive around i make mental notes of good places to go stay . and go to if asked to move or trouble happens.the worse is trying to drive late and find a place in thedark. dont do it stop early . you know it makes sense. cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Oct 30, 2010)

Another system I recall replaced the existing shock absorber with a heavier duty job contained within a coil spring, similar to a Mcpherson strut, I think you could adjust the preload with a spanner seemed like a good idea.


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## Byronic (Oct 30, 2010)

vwalan said:


> byronic . do i try to fool the police .come on with my set up its pretty obvious i,m not 3,500kg and i have more carrying capacity than 3,500kg to start with. i understand where you are coming from though. and talk with vosa regularly .i know they stop lots down here and they run competions between themselves as to how many they will get over loaded . like you i know people that think doing suspension and axle up
> grades allow more pay load but forget to alter the paper work. its paper work that gives the up grade in the end. looking underladen is hopeless on a weighbridghe . its whats on the dial that counts. as for driving around i have no probs but then have spent a while driving full artics so think a bit different to a car driver. also having hightop campers for years again lk for dfferent places and it becomes automatic as i drive around i make mental notes of good places to go stay . and go to if asked to move or trouble happens.the worse is trying to drive late and find a place in thedark. dont do it stop early . you know it makes sense. cheers alan.


 
Come on Alan this looks like a lot of flowery prose to say what you can say in one word, are you as far as weights/loading etc completely legit or do you rely on you're knowledge of the ambiguities of the law, and/or the potential ignorance of the Police?


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2010)

***** .yes i,m familier with the rules .i voluntary drop the gvw of the trailer to 3,500kg . as a living van under 3,500kg it does not need an mot. by the way as a trailer under 1,020kg unladen weight it also didnt need an mot. the unit is used for drawing a trailer in the exempt group 13 14or 15. and forms part of an articulated vehicle is also exempt plating and testing. 
to be articulated it must have at least 20percent of the loaded trailer weight super imposed on the towing vehicle (most 5ers arent artics.)
i work to strict guidelines as issued by vosa ,dvla etc . i also am a transport manager and have cpc . unfortunately as from yesrurday dont have a hgv or psv licence . but will get it back after my winter travels . good job mine can be driven on c1+e but then i voluntary dropped the train to allow this a few years ago. picking the right weight unladen unit is vital.


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2010)

i,m sure it will happen. i,m lucky .i can still drop my gvw to 3,500kg . then move the trailer axles forward to create a normal caravan 5er then drive it on b+e . wont alter the rules if they change but registering the trailer doesnt bother me. there are lots of changes out there waiting to happen . may have to mot it all soon there is a white paper going on at the moment. vosa keep me informed of changes. i may later change to a small camper . i did manage before so i can do it again. just having fun at the moment, like the truck though. a big 4x4 was on the cards but due to my health i decided it wasnt a wise move. seems i made the right decision . have to wait and see. will go before a full medical board when i get back . had to do it last time but hoped i wouldnt have to this time . bad mistake . i think it will be ok though for the next 5 yrs . who knows .might fail the board . have lots plans in my head . cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Oct 30, 2010)

Alan I don't have any connection with the transport industry (I know it shows) as a result I'm ignorant of the legislation and its implications but all these trailer weight, axle weight permutations, do you reckon they need to be so complex?


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2010)

yes i do. if we catch up this winter i can spend a bit of time sat in the sun showing you the legislations.if you get into the transport industry you have to know how where if . there are rules that make something wrong but change a tyre its ok. etc etc . i dont make laws or rules,i just have made it part of my working life to understand and obey them. if you dont understand them and get it wrong .the courts punish you. if authority gets it wrong and you dont know, you get punished . authority never gets punished. we must always study the laws and rules then we can avoid being punished.


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## Byronic (Oct 30, 2010)

*****, what you could be implying is more complexity ie standardisation does not necessarily equate with simplicity and when concerning the EU it usually means more beauracracy.
When I converted my present 6.6tonne van from HGV commercial to a Motorhome the DVLA insisted that it was now to be classified as a LGV Light Goods Vehicle,it took months to convince them otherwise. So even a simple proceedure such as this can be cocked up.


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2010)

i use david lowes transport managers and operators handbook. not quite croners . but very usefull. along with freight transport yearly handbook on transport law. plus regular up dates from vosa and road haulage association. i do try to keep updated . regular visits to the local dvla office to pick up new booklets etc  it never ends . i also speak quite often to vosa and dvla on the phone .even the ministry of transport in great minster house marsham street london. 
you may think i go on but they get a regular ear bashing . he hee . 
spent 2 hours yesterday getting my licence to go away .swansea was in turmoil. 
all ok now will bring a few bits to show you in the warm weather cheers alan.


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2010)

road haulage cabbotage was provided for under the treaty of rome in 1957. uk was not covered as it could not b a full working partner in the eu. nothing is new. we helped set up the treaty of rome or at least our fathers /granfathers did .they have alot to answer for . they got lots wrong .but it suited them at our cost. what happens today always trails back to whats agreed years ago. then made to look like a new thing.


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2010)

as a matter of interest for those wishing to upgrade weights reimo used to offer brake shoe and wheel cylinder up grades that came with a TUV. certificate to upgrade in germany. never seen the kit but i dare say you could use it here and dvla would accept it. cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Oct 30, 2010)

Alan, I think recent posts would suggest to the non involved that transport industry legistlation is a minefield. I think I'll stick to the expertise needed in my own profession.
Like 99% of the public I know just enough to tax, insure, license my vehicle.


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## vwalan (Oct 30, 2010)

it can be . i try to help when i can. someone asks a question ,doesnt know where to go/look . i will always try to be honest and truth full. everything is open for the public to see . govt .com etc they do try hard to be open to your requests . it does take time . i still cant my head round continental clothes sizes . can just about cope with shoe sizes ,ha ha . we all have a weakness . i seem to have spent a life time asking awkward questions to who ever thinks they are in charge . not being awkward really just want to know. shut up sit down was not the answer i was looking for or wanted .i like little quest of adventure into unknown. then you find the ones in charge very often know nothing more than us. but make it up as they go along . shut up sit down i,m in charge i must be right. oh well t, time mmmm cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Nov 1, 2010)

So Airide can give you 200kg extra payload, well thats my lesson learned for the day. You've listed a lot of the disadvantages when entering HGV territory, it's all down to personal choice if that 600kg extra payload is worth the trade off.
Is your rear axle load only increased by 180kg ? Unless I've misread, then it seems like a lot of advantages to forego just for that extra margin.


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## Basil (Nov 1, 2010)

*1000kilo*

You must have over 1000kilo load capacity..... think of all the beer....


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## Byronic (Nov 1, 2010)

That'll be a site as you drive away with the cab full of booze and the cops watching!!


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## vwalan (Nov 1, 2010)

no fine . you can bring back as much duty paid as you want .just dont sell it. dont forget the cheap beer and spirits from spain . still think you need more payload ,hee hee. takes us days to get loaded for home . several trolley loads . hope it all goes good for you .let us know how you get on at dvla.


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## Byronic (Nov 2, 2010)

I understood the fine as being for having an overloaded rear axle. Presumably because there would'nt be enough space to put all the booze over the front axle?


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2010)

hi, yes i read it after and thought oh well looks like i got it wrong .but left it on . makes a story . only a week to go. hee hee  cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Nov 2, 2010)

vwalan said:


> hi, yes i read it after and thought oh well looks like i got it wrong .but left it on . makes a story . only a week to go. hee hee  cheers alan.


 
Alan, do I get a hint that you'll be glad to get away from the computer? I used to leave the laptop behind when heading South, but now I've become reliant on it as a pass timer.
 Don't think  I'd bother with the laptop' or the TV if I was on 3 week summer holiday touring new places, but invaluable (together with book reading) for bad weather days on extended winter trips. There's only so many hours of board games I can take.
*****, obviously the weight advantage in your case outweighs the disadvantages of venturing into HGV territory, just remember when you spot what appears to be a weight check on the road ahead, to apply the brakes sharpish to shift the load to the forward end!


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## AndyC (Nov 2, 2010)

***** said:


> Can anybody think of any down side for been plated at 4100kg
> I know about the speed limits, toll charges, go box, possible recovery problems, newer drivers restriction, weight limits in villages and car parks etc.medical at 70
> I just can't see any reason why not to do it and road tax is cheaper.


You've covered most of it, although the UK speed restrictions start at 3050kg unladen and you might be over that already!
One thing, you say that the Hymer plate has the gross weight at 3900kg? It's my understanding that a converters plate overrides the base vehicle manufacturers plate so it would seem that you could be affected by the 'over 3500kg' regulations already...

AndyC


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2010)

hi, fortunately for you all i use a big old clumsy desk top computer .dont have a lap top. so next week i shall say see you later aligater. cant find the need to have a computer when away . lifes too busy then. dont need any poi or parking places by sat nav. never had a problem finding somewhere to stay. like asking locals where to get this and that .its all part of the fun. once i get on the boat every thing goes into a different pace of life . so many places to go ,see, do. sit quiet on the boat as i can get sea sick . stay calm get ready for the adventure to start. but i will be back god willing, inshallah.
must brush my arabic up bislemmah. cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Nov 2, 2010)

*****, for what it's worth the formula is a universal mechanical one sic.
"The sum of the anti clockwise moments must equal  the sum of the clockwise moments for equilibrium". 
1 tonne +  seems like a very reasonable payload I should think most vanners could carry every vital for an extended trip.
I think Alans approach to vanning to be the ideal ie what it really is about.I've tended to stray away from the ideal and tend more and more to rely on peripherals as it were.


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## AndyC (Nov 3, 2010)

***** said:


> No Andy the vehicle is registered at 3500kg and the registration weight takes president. Soon it will be 4100kg
> The converters plate would take president if it had been registered and taxed at that rate.


Are you absolutely sure that's right? The 'Revenue Weight' as entered on the V5C is defined as: "confirmed maximum weight", determined by the Plating and Testing Regulations (i.e. vehicles subject to plating and testing) or, "design weight" for vehicles not subject to plating and testing. Motorhomes are not subject to plating so it seems to me that your Hymer plate indicates a "design weight" of 3900kg and therefore the revenue weight of 3500kg recorded on your V5C is incorrect.

AndyC


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## vwalan (Nov 3, 2010)

hi ,***** is right .it would heither have been a mistake or a voluntary down plate at registering. very common . it could easily have been up lifted at anytime . but its the log book that is the paper bit. the other plates can be stickers scratches into paint work all a load of crap ,but what weight is on the log book is the weight you are taxed according to it and its that weight vosa would use. the higher plate should be took off or marked in a way to show its been superceded .


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## Tco (Nov 3, 2010)

Having just caught up with the thread after a couple of ays absence, I thought I would just toss another little pebble into the pond.  All this talk about extending the MGW to over 4000kg brings up another aspect which could be forgotten.  Don't forget the tyres in all this. 

In my application I elected to increase the rear axle loading to 2000kg. The van was fitted with 215/70-15 tyres which had a load rating of 109 =1030kg.  I was uncomfortable with such a low margin so sought out some tyres with a load rating of 112 = 1120kg. This gave me a much wider safety margin. 
 Remembering that the chassis mods _Could_ have allowed a GVW of 3810 which would have put the existing tyres right on their load limit.

If you have any enthusiasm to increase the rear axle loading, just keep an eye on the tyre ratings.

see.Tyre Load Rating | Blackcircles.com


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## AndyC (Nov 3, 2010)

vwalan said:


> hi ,***** is right .it would heither have been a mistake or a voluntary down plate at registering. very common . it could easily have been up lifted at anytime . but its the log book that is the paper bit. the other plates can be stickers scratches into paint work all a load of crap ,but what weight is on the log book is the weight you are taxed according to it and its that weight vosa would use. the higher plate should be took off or marked in a way to show its been superceded .


It's my understanding (from a VOSA inspector) that they take account of the VIN or converters plate when carrying out vehicle checks. Certainly DLVA will take account of the declared gross weight (on the V5C) when determining road tax. I agree that to avoid confusion the Hymer plate should be removed or re-marked to indicate the maximum weight as declared on the V5C if that is the maximum weight at which the vehicle will be operated.

It's a bit academic as far as Graham is concerned since he is going to upgrade anyway  However I'm going to follow this up just to clarify which takes precedence, the VIN plate, converter's plate or the V5C.

I've already posed a 'difficult' question to the DfT regarding MTPLM upgrades on Type Approved motorhomes, another one will keep them busy for a while 

AndyC


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## AndyC (Nov 3, 2010)

***** said:


> Thanks Alan, I was sure that I was, but Andy put a little doubt in my mind as he is usually well informed.


I think Alan is sort of agreeing that having the Hymer plate at 3900kg does cause confusion 

Out of interest do you know what your unladen weight is, and what is the gross weight on the Fiat VIN plate? 

AndyC


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## lebesset (Nov 3, 2010)

with regard to tyre carrying capacity ETRTO  design parameters permit an increased  load capacity of 10% ...providing there is no drive or steering on the axle ; traction forces or steering inputs can easily use up that extra capacity

so if you have a FWD vehicle the fitting of tyres with a marked load capacity of 1030Kg on a 2000Kg axle will be safe up to 2266Kg , a more than adequate margin

I don't suggest you try running at that load however , VOSA would not be amused

in addition the wheels fitted will not be optimised for  wider tyres and so will reduce their effectiveness even if the fitment is possible ; in addition , on most motorhomes , the front tyres are running well under their rated capacity already ...fitting wider tyres usually causes what is referred to as an overtyre characteristic , which means that the vehicle is inclined to 'tramline' ...not a desirable characteristic

better , in my view , to leave these decisions to the tyre/wheel/vehicle manufacturers


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## AndyC (Nov 3, 2010)

***** said:


> I think that Alan said that the revenue weight is what matters.
> Fiat Vin is as stated 3500gross.
> I have not got the exact unladen but from memory it was around the 3000kg
> I have just looked at the tech spec for the year of my Hymer and the Mass Running Order is / was 3040kg and nett weight is 2860kg.
> Payload is 460kg at 3500kg or 810kg at 3850kg (Maxi) although my Hymer plate states 3900kg



As I understand it Mass in Running Order (MIRO) is unladen weight plus 75kg allowance for the driver, plus 90% of the max fuel capacity. I think the nett weight quoted by Hymer is probably the unladen weight.
Your original unladen weight is below 3050kg so to determine which speed limits you have to comply with you just need to add the weight of any permanently fitted extras such as the Airrides, awning, bike rack etc to your unladen weight to see whether you are over 3050kg or not 

AndyC


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## vwalan (Nov 3, 2010)

this is where it can get confusing .is a cmper a goods carrying vehicle if it is its unladen weight below 3050kg makes it a motor car. if it not goods carrying then it must not exceed 2540 kg to be a motor car. is it a motor car or a heavy motor car. that is the question. cheers alan. 
or is it a m,home ...hee heee.


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## AndyC (Nov 3, 2010)

vwalan said:


> this is where it can get confusing .is a cmper a goods carrying vehicle if it is its unladen weight below 3050kg makes it a motor car. if it not goods carrying then it must not exceed 2540 kg to be a motor car. is it a motor car or a heavy motor car. that is the question. cheers alan.
> or is it a m,home ...hee heee.


It better not be a goods carrying vehicle 'cos they need a Class 7 MOT if between 3000kg and 3500kg gross weight and an HGV MOT if over 3500kg! No to mention driver's hours and tacho regs...

It's a shambles really - it's about time all this vehicle classification business was rationalised!

AndyC


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## vwalan (Nov 3, 2010)

ah but all m,caravans regardless of weight are class 4 . mot.  we must not confuse the issues . each one as diferent rules . used private dont need drivers hours or tacho.s . even up to 7,5ton .but yes a total revue and new laws need to be set .and we try to get a law for m,homes only parking . difficult as that can be classed as discrimination . a m,home is a car . be it light or heavy . may even be a tall/high car. bit like swimming in a bog . all good fun though . cheers alan.


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## vwalan (Nov 3, 2010)

whats the back axle problem. its my belief just about every 3,500kg camper is overloaded when it goes on a trip. even more if coming back from abroad . best done then you dont get a fine. cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Nov 3, 2010)

Apart from the anomaly of VED being £40 less when changing from LGV to HGV, I found that changing from Commercial HGV to Motor Caravan HGV meant I then had to have front seat belts fitted, very strange. As Alan says, all good fun!!!
Another fairly strange requirement if memory serves me well is the Highway Code where vehicles with an UNLADEN weight of 1525 kg or under can park unlit at night on a road of 30 mph or less. If you're over 1525 then it's parking lights on everywhre so that includes most Motorcaravans.


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## lebesset (Nov 3, 2010)

perhaps that's why in plymouth they have car parks where you can't park any vehicle over 1525 Kg unladen weight 
that way you can't get your vehicle off the street overnight and they can fine you if you park without lights so you can start it in the morning 

or am I missing something here


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## Byronic (Nov 3, 2010)

I guess that 's what you'd call unjoined up thinking, occasioned by those who must be obeyed.


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## AndyC (Nov 3, 2010)

vwalan said:


> ah but all m,caravans regardless of weight are class 4 . mot.  we must not confuse the issues . each one as diferent rules . used private dont need drivers hours or tacho.s . even up to 7,5ton .but yes a total revue and new laws need to be set .and we try to get a law for m,homes only parking . difficult as that can be classed as discrimination . a m,home is a car . be it light or heavy . may even be a tall/high car. bit like swimming in a bog . all good fun though . cheers alan.


Certainly if it's used privately a motorhome of whatever weight needs a Class 4 MOT, but one over 3000kg gross that is used to carry goods is classed as a 'living van' and subject to goods vehicle regulations.  It doesn't have to be 'constructed' to carry goods, just 'used' to carry goods. More fun...

AndyC


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## vwalan (Nov 4, 2010)

better to have a mini artic . trailer is a living van up to 3,500kg and the unit forms part of an articulated combination pulling a living van. google v112g on dft site look at classes 13and 35. works for me. do you use your van for display or education . worth reading. cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Nov 4, 2010)

vwalan said:


> ah but all m,caravans regardless of weight are class 4 . mot.  we must not confuse the issues . each one as diferent rules . used private dont need drivers hours or tacho.s . even up to 7,5ton .but yes a total revue and new laws need to be set .and we try to get a law for m,homes only parking . difficult as that can be classed as discrimination . a m,home is a car . be it light or heavy . may even be a tall/high car. bit like swimming in a bog . all good fun though . cheers alan.


 
This is point I was making to ***** further European harmonisation may be a fine thing, all the rules may apply equally to all, but the rules themselves may still be full of anomalies, ambiguities, and just as much of a mess as now.
At least with a 2.6 tonne payload they won't get me for overloading.


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## Byronic (Nov 4, 2010)

*****, not necessarily bigger just heavier. Agree with your point about 5vers, the disadvantages when camped up of having to get out to drive away, and the cab not being under easy observation. The only advantage over car/caravan seems to be that old favourite...... Payload.


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## vwalan (Nov 4, 2010)

there are many advantages but this is not the thread to carry it on . but we can if you want.cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Nov 4, 2010)

As long as the 5ver setup suits you then thats all that counts of course.
However I think you would have a difficult job finding enough advantages to convince me to change, but I may be wrong, can't speak for those who also have more "conventional" rigs.


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## vwalan (Nov 4, 2010)

no mots .if artic.
no need to use a toed. 
more usable space than a car caravan for the length. in fact much more room.
if and when you get older a fiver can be made to be driven on a car licence yet have a much bigger payload than a motor home . 9-10 ton train  easily . 
cheaper car ferries .(cars caravans get special rates)
ease of updating the unit and not changing your living accomodation. 
use the unit as a car when back here in uk. saves on insurance and tax costs . extra mot,s . 
doesnt hardly take up more space than a big m,home .
good for carrying other items when trailer not hitched up. 
is that a bit to go on. as for security they break in to motor homes while you are asleep. i know had it done to us while asleep in trailer last year in spain. so cancels that a little.


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## Byronic (Nov 4, 2010)

Can't argue with anything you've written, but I ask myself why I still would not want the 5ver setup. 
Be interesting to see if anyone else is convinced that they should change. Perhaps it's a matter of what you get accustomed to, and just can't be hacked with changing. Just try telling a tugger that a motorcaravan is the way to go.


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## vwalan (Nov 4, 2010)

mine is a lynton trailer originally 5ton gvw. never use single axles as you get a puncture you dont get a chance. nearly bought one last year though. mine is built to be driven on c1+e .but i can alter it . at the moment it is a proper artic . but beacause of the unladen weight of he unit and the loweree trin can be driven with out a class one .just as well now . beer trailers require too big a unit. mine is 7ft 6 wide 20 ft trailer but only 33ft total length just under actually. tyres are 195 van or 185 van tyres . so cheap to replace. will need upgraded tyres if i alter it not to be artic possibly.   8ft on the stepframe 12ft on thelower deck.  the chassis is very thick aluminium u channel ,alum floor walls supports and a fibre glass roof. there is a 30ft on ebay being pulled by a single cab isuzu. needs work but ideal .truck only 3,000ml. or something.


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## vwalan (Nov 4, 2010)

its also under 3mt height . the truck is only the size of a transit . no bigger than a fiat. well very close. i have a mazda bongo here andif i put a 10ft caravan behind it its only 9inches shorter.i,m not keen on the american style 5ers as they waste so much space. also using a euro pick up they have big bonnets stuck out .again wasting space.  i have alot of space for a small vehicle. 
i cant change what people buy /want but as there isnt too many like mine being used many only see the conventional 5ers at shows and get the wrong idea . i can confidently say it goes every where a merc 814 type vehicle goes and possible furter than many frontwheel drive campers . cheers alan.


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## Byronic (Nov 4, 2010)

Garth, a few years ago an inner tyre of my rear twinwheels blew one of those bloody under spec. rubber valves. I never realised it had happened and it could have occurred anywhere between Gib and Dover. It ruined the tyre of course, I had only given the tyres a visual inspection on route, and  because the van has a near 2 tonnes of spare pay load it looked ok ie the good tyre was taking the whole load without it looking obvious. A quick bit of arithmetic showed that running solo the good tyre was just within load specs.... needless to say lesson learned.


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## Byronic (Nov 4, 2010)

Sorry about that ***** must have been thinking of Garth Vader, drat even that's wrong.


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## vwalan (Nov 9, 2010)

well done bet you didnt ask if the sv tec certificate was really needed . but you did it .you can rest easy , carry a bit more and save abit on tax. all good. see you in th sun now you saved a few bob. ha ha . cheers alan.


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## vwalan (Nov 9, 2010)

yes thursday. was going to be wednesday but they cancelled ferry .big waves in bay biscay. got cancele a few times last year. hope it going to be ok. .and yes they dont put weight on tax disc . just phgv. you will get out one winter much better than here too cold . and never seems to stop raining for more than half a day. better be ok or i might freeze to deasth ,ha ha . cheers alan.


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## vwalan (Nov 9, 2010)

dont believe what you hear. i,ve never found any drugs strapped to mine .have visited the riff quite often . been into the farms and seen some of the factories that produce it. but i dont use it. or bring it back. as for stones being thrown . i,ve had it happen in spain. ,can be anywhere. as for thieves they are every where as well could happen anywhere . again most i,ve lost as been in spain. as for experiance you dont get it if you don go. i think ray does his best and caters for alot of first timers . i couldnt afford it. but its easy now not like it was back in 76 my first time .was a real nightmare then. but then we were a bunch of hippies in an old ford thames van. possibly stank of dope and dirty bidies . surf boards on roof looking for sex drugs rock n roll. never found the rock n roll but life was easy. the van had a prop shaft made of scaffold pole with the joints welded on . couldnt go fast or it tried to throw you off the road.  still see friends from then . life asnt changed . some have been going back every years since the 70,s . africa is a big place ,been down to gambia through mauratania,senegalnorth and south.  .  done tunisia , driven a bit in algeria . if you fancy it next year give a shout . no problems to join in and soon you would be haggling with the rest of us . no bribes no bakshish no tip . best tip you can give them is ----off. most are great and have good fun feel like going to visit your own family after a while. anyway glad you got sorted cheers alan.


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## mattiball (Nov 10, 2010)

***** said:


> hI David.
> It is usually only the rear, I have no idea if a kit is manufacturered for the front.
> Mine was fitted by the Airide man and he took about one hour to do the whole job. Bearing in mind that he is fitting these day in and day out I would imagine that up to two hours for someone that is a general fitter sounds about right.
> 
> ...



I havn't found this with my air suspension, surely if its set up properly the van should be level on the flat?


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## rolandrat (Nov 10, 2010)

*****, I thought you'd finished with HGV's?


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## lebesset (Nov 10, 2010)

well , my A class Hymer has a slight nose down attitude and I have yet to see a motorhome with the airide type suspension which hasn't had this attitude increased ; I suppose that if you need this to increase you load capacity you have to put up with this , but as I personally just want to improve the cushioning and stability I am not prepared to do this 

really must get around to fitting my timbren supporters which will maintain the level...unfortunately the weather in the south of france is cold and wet now , so indoors with the central heating on is much more to my taste


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## barnybg (Nov 10, 2010)

*Sorry..maroc *

My first triptomaroc was 77/78 in a VW Golf,three of us,was arrested (or taken in) at least 20 times...lol,10 of those times were along the spanish coast,when they were still building or hadn't built,fuengerola and a few 'little' villages spring tomind,then there was Morroco itself, a real eye opener at the time,and we went the wrong way too,not the hippie trail but headed for tunisia,into Algeira ? that place with an A,where police or Army chiefs wore those RED hats (like Tommy Cooper) and smoked huge cigars like (WinstonChurchill) and quoted him,several of them,had our close attention,especially when the ...cells,where so close AND _ where out of a cowboy film _ even to the prisoners being 'beaten' in front of us,even the guards shook in front of these guys,with thier portraitshanging behind them,a questionaire to fill out,wether we were rich or from 'private schools' haha yeah right a welsh valleys boy,but did 'bumpinto' the famous 'Boyo' that wrote a book on it and became very famous !!!...he did like his Hassheash 
I think those days are gone aren't they,so many 'foreigners' buying there now,like the Costas,not the Wild West.....


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## lebesset (Nov 19, 2010)

well , got around to fitting the timbren supports ; they replace the bump stops ... you just screw out the old and screw in the new ...took me about half an hour , didn't even have to take off the rear wheels to get at the axle , just a jack up the bodywork job

first thing you notice is that instead of there being a small gap between the bump stops and the axle , the timbren are slightly compressed on a loaded motorhome ; so as well as improving the stability , you get an improvement in cushioning ...or at least I have 

well pleased for £200 or so ...I commend them if there is a kit for your chassis and are not seeking to increase the carrying capacity

oh, and no increase in nose down


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## lebesset (Nov 24, 2010)

Dunlop Systems and Components design and manufacture air suspension components and advanced electronic control systems for the automotive and ancillary industries.

didn't realise that , following a management buy out , they were now an independant british company


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