# Engine management light



## campervanannie (Jul 3, 2017)

New to me motorhome 2004 Rapido on a fiat 2.8 base when going up hill and overstretching the gears slightly 2,500 + revs a red light comes on in 3rd 4th and 5th any ideas does not do it on the flat or downhill.


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## Wooie1958 (Jul 3, 2017)

Has it a symbol or shape that you can describe ?


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## campervanannie (Jul 3, 2017)

Looks like this as soon as I change gear it goes off or in fifth I lift my foot slightly off the accelerator it goes off


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## Wooie1958 (Jul 3, 2017)

That is the main MIL  ( Malfunction Indicator Lamp )

Yellow lights are advisory and Red light are serious, it needs putting on a diagnostic ASAP.


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## ChrisInNotts (Jul 3, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> View attachment 55110
> Looks like this as soon as I change gear it goes off or in fifth I lift my foot slightly off the accelerator it goes off



Could be a turbo boost leak from a split hose but without reading the stored codes its pretty much guesswork.

Keith


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## carol (Jul 3, 2017)

hairydog said:


> You can buy a code reader for about £10. Well worth having one.



Where from? Do they work on all vehicles?


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## carol (Jul 3, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> View attachment 55110
> Looks like this as soon as I change gear it goes off or in fifth I lift my foot slightly off the accelerator it goes off



I got that and the van went into limp mode. Have you sorted it, Annie? Good luck, hope it's a simple solution x


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## campervanannie (Jul 3, 2017)

It's still under the 6 months guarantee so I am taking it back to where I bought it and we will see what they say I just need an idea so I am not fobbed off.


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## caledonia (Jul 3, 2017)

Get it to a Fiat dealer asap. Do not waste time and money with Joe bloggs with so called code reader. Could be something as simple as fuel starvation due to filter needing changed but also could be turbo issue. It is important to use a dealer it saves money in the long run. If under warranty the seller will foot the bill.


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## campervanannie (Jul 3, 2017)

caledonia said:


> Get it to a Fiat dealer asap. Do not waste time and money with Joe bloggs with so called code reader. Could be something as simple as fuel starvation due to filter needing changed but also could be turbo issue. It is important to use a dealer it saves money in the long run. If under warranty the seller will foot the bill.



Booked into the Fiat Dealer in Keighley WYorks Wednesday 
                     Cheers Annie.


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## sparrks (Jul 3, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Ebay. Mine looks like item no 272291491645
> 
> They work with all vehicles that have the OBDII socket.
> The EU* required all vehicles to be fitted with them to end the rip-off of bespoke diagnostic systems on each make. The rules took effect around 2000 so anything made after then should be fine. Many earlier vehicles will be too.
> *I'm hoping that Brexit won't put an end to that as well!



Whilst they are useful and do work on modern vehicles their functionality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer in particular with regards to airbag warnings. That said mine used with the 'Torque' app on my phone has got myself out of the brown stuff on several occasions on different vehicles, well worth the tenner or so.


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## molly 2 (Jul 3, 2017)

Get it back to the dealer asap it could be anything from a failing sensor low ,oil pressure ,blocked cat ,the list goes on .or call out your breakdown recovery .AA, RAC ,carry high tech diagnostics .the best people to diagnose the problem is a main dealer


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## Mick H (Jul 3, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Ebay. Mine looks like item no 272291491645
> 
> They work with all vehicles that have the OBDII socket.
> The EU* required all vehicles to be fitted with them to end the rip-off of bespoke diagnostic systems on each make. The rules took effect around 2000 so anything made after then should be fine. Many earlier vehicles will be too.
> *I'm hoping that Brexit won't put an end to that as well!



I wish that was true. Unfortunately they don't!
Mine will read my wife's Nissan Micra, no problem, but NOT the Nissan engine in our 2005 Renault based motorhome. It has an OBDII socket, but the cheap reader doesn't read it!


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## AllanD (Jul 3, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Booked into the Fiat Dealer in Keighley WYorks Wednesday
> Cheers Annie.



Good luck for Wednesday Annie, hope it's resolved quickly, keep us posted.

Allan,


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## runnach (Jul 3, 2017)

Mick H said:


> I wish that was true. Unfortunately they don't!
> Mine will read my wife's Nissan Micra, no problem, but NOT the Nissan engine in our 2005 Renault based motorhome. It has an OBDII socket, but the cheap reader doesn't read it!


 My experience too. false signals , and the dreaded generic codes ( could be anything) do seem to overcomplicate matters,

For our West Yorks members for Fiat Ducato issues these lads I found very good based in Leeds

http://www.turinmotors.co.uk/

Channa


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## campervanannie (Jul 3, 2017)

AllanD said:


> Good luck for Wednesday Annie, hope it's resolved quickly, keep us posted.
> 
> Allan,



Cheers will do.


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## shortcircuit (Jul 3, 2017)

EGR valve is sticking and an easy fix.  If you lift your foot off slightly does it clear?


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## ChrisInNotts (Jul 3, 2017)

sparrks said:


> Whilst they are useful and do work on modern vehicles their functionality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer in particular with regards to airbag warnings. That said mine used with the 'Torque' app on my phone has got myself out of the brown stuff on several occasions on different vehicles, well worth the tenner or so.



It can be more faff to get sorted and you need a laptop but the free version of multiecuscan is very good.  Multiecuscan - Diagnostics software for Italian cars 

I've used it on my Alfa for many years (that regularly throws fault codes) but it us used much less often on the motorhome 

Keith


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## Tezza33 (Jul 3, 2017)

ChrisInNotts said:


> It can be more faff to get sorted and you need a laptop but the free version of multiecuscan is very good.  Multiecuscan - Diagnostics software for Italian cars
> 
> I've used it on my Alfa for many years (that regularly throws fault codes) but it us used much less often on the motorhome
> 
> Keith



That is what I use, I carry the set of cables and a netbook with multicuscan on it in the van at all times, it has proven useful to help others as well as myself


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## campervanannie (Jul 3, 2017)

shortcircuit said:


> EGR valve is sticking and an easy fix.  If you lift your foot off slightly does it clear?



Yes.


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## shortcircuit (Jul 3, 2017)

Well that follows the symptoms I had.  Unfortunately I do not have that MoHo anymore so am not exactly sure if I am able to give correct instructions.  Underneath at the rear of the engine centrally and near the exhaust pipe deep in you should find a plunger with push rod and this should move.  Hopefully somebody more technical can assist.  I purchased a blanking plate do isolate this valve as it appears a common problem but never fitted, but still carry. I wish you all the best.


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## ChrisInNotts (Jul 3, 2017)

shortcircuit said:


> Well that follows the symptoms I had.  Unfortunately I do not have that MoHo anymore so am not exactly sure if I am able to give correct instructions.  Underneath at the rear of the engine centrally and near the exhaust pipe deep in you should find a plunger with push rod and this should move.  Hopefully somebody more technical can assist.  I purchased a blanking plate do isolate this valve as it appears a common problem but never fitted, but still carry. I wish you all the best.



Our 2004 2.3 JTD doesn't have an EGR valve so its quite likely Annie doesn't have one either   I think only the face lifts had them?

Keith


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## ian81 (Jul 3, 2017)

Have had a similar problem with a 2.2 Transit. In the mountains when I have laboured the engine light comes on and goes into limp mode. Stop restart no problem. Have Torque Pro and a BT  OBD  adapter throws a turbo boost code. As problem hasn't happened lately will get garage to check associated sensors before delving deeper!


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## shortcircuit (Jul 3, 2017)

Thats interesting as I did a quick search for Annie's MoHo and it came out with the 2.8JTD, which was the same engine I had.  Hopefully problem can be resolved.


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## campervanannie (Jul 3, 2017)

shortcircuit said:


> Thats interesting as I did a quick search for Annie's MoHo and it came out with the 2.8JTD, which was the same engine I had.  Hopefully problem can be resolved.



Yes that's the correct engine for my Moho Fiat have rung me back and rebooked Friday am as it gives them more time for a complete diagnostic and a safety check of all wheels tyres brakes and discs fluid levels £90 so rebooked for the lot.


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## oldish hippy (Jul 3, 2017)

at least if it got to go back under warranty you will have some ammo to pass on and with it being a main dealer he shouldn't argue with that I ssume he not a main fiat dealer


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## campervanannie (Jul 3, 2017)

oldish hippy said:


> at least if it got to go back under warranty you will have some ammo to pass on and with it being a main dealer he shouldn't argue with that I ssume he not a main fiat dealer



No I bought it from a dealer down in Bedfordshire but he has said he will sort out any issues so we will see.


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## Tezza33 (Jul 3, 2017)

shortcircuit said:


> Thats interesting as I did a quick search for Annie's MoHo and it came out with the 2.8JTD, which was the same engine I had.  Hopefully problem can be resolved.


I have a 2002 2.8JTD and it doesn't have an EGR valve, or a catalytic converter, it makes them a little bit simpler


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## shortcircuit (Jul 3, 2017)

Torchy said:


> I have a 2002 2.8JTD and it doesn't have an EGR valve, or a catalytic converter, it makes them a little bit simpler



Mine was a 2005, 2.8JTD which had the EGR but no CAT, thankfully.


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## justRoamin (Jul 3, 2017)

Hi, I've had those same symptoms,it's the turbo actuator sticking,the pin on the waste gate seizes to the actuator arm preventing it to open and relieve turbo pressure.. So the electronics relieses this and through the management light and limp mode(sometimes).... previous owner probably never drove it like a delivery van... get the garage to free it up.. Mine snapped, had to make a new conection but all Ok now.. no more light or limp mode up hills..


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## Andys (Jul 3, 2017)

Coming back from France last week our light came on we stopped to check Fiat manual which said it would be ok to drive on but not to strain engine. Took it to local garage to have the fault read, it's a injector fault on cylinder 2. 
Hopefully it will not be too expensive 

Hope yours is a simple fix


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## john1974 (Jul 3, 2017)

yes agree with above, mine was 2 x injectors, but as said elsewhere Campervanannie, could be a myriad of things, all sortable  no panic..

Limp mode is cool, you can limp home ! 

for everyone, I have the full diagnostics for Cit/Pug if you are stuck anywhere near me  Malbec is good, Margaux is better!

John


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## campervanannie (Jul 3, 2017)

I got it home but it struggles going up hill and in Scotland that's not good and when you are traveling with a speed freak cough (Daisymini) cough it doesn't help but hopefully Friday Fiat will tell me what is wrong and fingers crossed the dealer will foot the bill.
I'll keep you all informed.


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## john1974 (Jul 3, 2017)

yep  when I picked mine up, it broke down 10 times in 6 miles  , it wasn't so much 'limp' as 'leave it and walk'!

anyway, it will be ok..  we will all await the diagnosis .. and dont get scared at brand new dealer parts prices, just let us know what they say first!


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jul 4, 2017)

Bad luck Annie but it is sortable,as others have said it could be almost anything.I had a similar problem with my previous Autotrail with the 04 Fiat Ducato 2.8JTD engine,the engine management light came on with a marked loss of power and  after taking it to a local auto electrician with the correct diagnostic  equipment it was a faulty wiring loom on no.4 injector. 

It was simply a case of replacing the faulty loom,total cost £130 which  was mainly labour as the loom was less than a tenner.I was told that  this is a known issue on this  engine and he did keep a few looms  in stock. 

If the motorhome dealer is decent and honours the warranty then a franchised Fiat garage ought to do the job.We have a couple of excellent auto electrical specialists nearby with all the correct diagnostic equipment and if I was paying for the work would use them as they are cheaper and do just as good a job as a main dealer.


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## Andys (Jul 5, 2017)

Andys said:


> Coming back from France last week our light came on we stopped to check Fiat manual which said it would be ok to drive on but not to strain engine. Took it to local garage to have the fault read, it's a injector fault on cylinder 2.
> Hopefully it will not be too expensive
> 
> Hope yours is a simple fix



To update my engine light was caused by electrical fault on injector for cyliner 2 apparently it a common fault. Picking van up tomorrow night £377 which includes 2 new michelin tyres.


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## Canalsman (Jul 6, 2017)

Andys said:


> To update my engine light was caused by electrical fault on injector for cyliner 2 apparently it a common fault. Picking van up tomorrow night £377 which includes 2 new michelin tyres.



I had the same fault on the same injector in Spain. Fixed for free after an ADAC callout ...


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## grandadbaza (Jul 6, 2017)

I had  the  engine warning light coming on in yellow  a few times toward the back end of last year , each time it came on  I used the reader and it was the turbocharger sensor , I  cleared the light and carried on  thinking I would get it checked when it went for service  in a few months , but before it was due for service  I was on a site and ready to leave , turned the key and nothing , no lights on ignition nothing , I call green flag  and they initially thought the battery had died , but after investigation  they found it was the engine to chassis earth , they cured that problem and everything was fine .
That was in January  , since then (touch wood ) the light has not come on again , so I assume it must have been linked to a failing earth lead .
When it went for service I asked them to put it on diagnostic  and check , they said all ok no problems


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## campervanannie (Jul 7, 2017)

Sat at the Fiat dealership while they poke and prod le snoopy to find out what the light is all about will update later.


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## carol (Jul 7, 2017)

Good luck with it Annie x


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## The laird (Jul 7, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Sat at the Fiat dealership while they poke and prod le snoopy to find out what the light is all about will update later.



Ask for a print out of diag machine Annie!


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## campervanannie (Jul 7, 2017)

Ok here's the deal the Turbo compressor is sticking they managed to clean andfree it but he says it's one of those it might be ok now but it might stick again
1 x turbo compressor = £1593.85p
1 x sealing gasket = £16.86p
Or a reconditioned one at £732.30
Today's bill
1 hour diagnostic + 1 hour stripping and cleaning compressor £192.00
Plus the handbrake they are fixing that next week.


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## Admin (Jul 7, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Ok here's the deal the Turbo compressor is sticking they managed to clean andfree it but he says it's one of those it might be ok now but it might stick again
> 1 x turbo compressor = £1593.85p
> 1 x sealing gasket = £16.86p
> Or a reconditioned one at £732.30
> ...



That should be covered under warranty.


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## andyjanet (Jul 7, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Ok here's the deal the Turbo compressor is sticking they managed to clean andfree it but he says it's one of those it might be ok now but it might stick again
> 1 x turbo compressor = £1593.85p
> 1 x sealing gasket = £16.86p
> Or a reconditioned one at £732.30
> ...



Annie did they call it anything else, did they mean the turbo, I've never heard anything being called a turbo compressor, if its the turbo they can be got a lot cheaper than that from turbo specialist installers, andy


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## harrow (Jul 7, 2017)

Admin said:


> That should be covered under warranty.



You know what they are like 

"that's wear and tear items"

So it's not covered. :rulez::rulez::rulez:

However I do hope the dealer is honest and arranges the repairs.

:goodluck::goodluck::goodluck:


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## The laird (Jul 7, 2017)

Warranty claim defo


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## campervanannie (Jul 7, 2017)

Admin said:


> That should be covered under warranty.



Fingers crossed


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## campervanannie (Jul 7, 2017)

andyjanet said:


> Annie did they call it anything else, did they mean the turbo, I've never heard anything being called a turbo compressor, if its the turbo they can be got a lot cheaper than that from turbo specialist installers, andy



They said a pump was not working because an outlet/exhaust gate was sticking he did babble on a bit but it was gobbledygook to me the upshot is he freed it and it's now working but for how long who knows so do I change it under the warranty or leave it and risk a week after the warranty expires it goes again lol.


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## The laird (Jul 7, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> They said a pump was not working because an outlet/exhaust gate was sticking he did babble on a bit but it was gobbledygook to me the upshot is he freed it and it's now working but for how long who knows so do I change it under the warranty or leave it and risk a week after the warranty expires it goes again lol.



Annie I think you may find it would happen again ,you're not a hard driver as such and imho I'd push the warranty for them to replace ,I think you will find it would be a overhauled unit that would get fitted depending on the warranty pack.dont leave it to chance.
I'm sure if you flutter yer guid eye you will get somewhere .
All the best


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## campervanannie (Jul 7, 2017)

This is the estimate


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## The laird (Jul 7, 2017)

Yeah they're quoting a turbo.


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## campervanannie (Jul 7, 2017)

The laird said:


> Yeah they're quoting a turbo.



Yes he says I have been driving around with no turbo that's why it did 0 to 60 in 10 mins and would not go up hills lol


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## john1974 (Jul 7, 2017)

yikes..

I am in the wrong business lol - well I am not in any business right now!..

I bought a new turbo for my Boxer last month, and fitted it.. cost was £100, albeit I was lucky to find it.. I even have the old one on the bench after a rebuild..cant sell it for £50 on ebay!

thinking about it Annie, the only bit they can be referring to is the compressor vanes themselves.. and the only way they can stick really is by grundge building up in the inlet tracts.. if so, this can often be caused by infrequent oil changes, slow driving, short trips, and just old age  (saying that, my 2010 Hdi is full of muck, from the previous owners, and this isnt a car that would be doing small journeys really)

anyone agree with my diagnosis of the cause?


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## andyjanet (Jul 7, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> This is the estimateView attachment 55401


Yes that's the turbo, 
Get it done under warranty best wishes, andy


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## Admin (Jul 7, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> They said a pump was not working because an outlet/exhaust gate was sticking he did babble on a bit but it was gobbledygook to me the upshot is he freed it and it's now working but for how long who knows so do I change it under the warranty or leave it and risk a week after the warranty expires it goes again lol.



I guess they mean that the wastegate was sticking. It does not normally need a new turbo for that.


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## campervanannie (Jul 7, 2017)

Admin said:


> I guess they mean that the wastegate was sticking. It does not normally need a new turbo for that.



That's what he said wastegate the problem is he cannot find out what caused the sticking in the first place which is why he cannot guarantee it won't do it again it was one of those how long is a piece of string moments so hence my dilemma to change it on the guarantee or wait and see if the dealers sats get it done they'll pay I'll have it done if they say no I'll probably wait and see.


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## The laird (Jul 7, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> That's what he said wastegate the problem is he cannot find out what caused the sticking in the first place which is why he cannot guarantee it won't do it again it was one of those how long is a piece of string moments so hence my dilemma to change it on the guarantee or wait and see if the dealers sats get it done they'll pay I'll have it done if they say no I'll probably wait and see.



If the waste gate has not been operating the impeller blades are probably gaffes up with soot?also turbo housing will be the same I would think ,
When you get it sorted I'd give it a bit o blast  to clear its throat out Annie you might get a bit smoke out eahaust pipe for a bit  you want hills so that the turbo has to operate etc


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## Deleted member 52918 (Jul 7, 2017)

hairydog said:


> There is no consequential damage from it sticking again. I would make a point of driving it hard (full throttle up a long steep hill is ideal) to get it really hot and clean it out.
> If that breaks it, you have the guaranteed.



Warm it up to normal temp before doing this!

Phill


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## justRoamin (Jul 7, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Yes he says I have been driving around with no turbo that's why it did 0 to 60 in 10 mins and would not go up hills lol



I'm no mechanic but my understanding of turbos is that they are working all the time and only noticed when pushed hard, like up hill in a high gear over 2500rpm when they spin too much, that's when the waste gate opens relieving the pressure so it doesn't blow up. I recon the garage has freed the acuator rod with lube(fixing it) then are saying you need a new turbo. If you can get them to do it under warranty then go for it  They'd probably change there minds though. Have you been up any hills yet? You might see some black smoke as the engines probably not had a good clean out for a while.... Mark


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## sparrks (Jul 7, 2017)

I purchased a used car last year, after a week or so I started to 'push' it a bit more and I noticed that there was a bit of a flat spot at 2800rpm but would quickly clear by 2900rpm. Pushing it further to 4000rpm resulted the engine management light coming on and it going into 'limp' mode - oh bother i thought , I made note of the fault code  and cleared the fault using my cheapo OBD2 reader. 
Googling the code I quickly found out that it was usually the vanes sticking (the turbo is of the variable vane type) I used some Millers Diesel turbo cleaner in the tank and took it out for an Italian tune-up, but rather than driving like an arse  I just took it along the A27 at 70mph for about 25 miles and slowly increased the revs by changing down a gear 6 > 5 > 4 > 3 finally doing around 4500rpm for about 5 mins (6 miles) then taking care to let it all cool down before switching off. 
Note that the impeller ends sits in engine oil and spins at many thousands of rpm, much higher than the engine revs at and switching off suddenly whilst the turbo is at speed results in no oil at the turbo bearings. 
My father is from an era where it was common to blip the throttle before turning off - not good practice with turbos.


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## runnach (Jul 7, 2017)

Some good advice re turbos and oil starvation ....re the warranty some will only replace an item when it has failed. !! ....At this moment in time it hasn't after the trip today, be mindful of this if making a claim. Back in my motor trade days,we had the ludicrous situation a component was obviously on its way out but hadn't failed so a warranty wouldn't cover it. I am confident the other guys here in the trade will have witnessed the same thing if dealing with warranty companies 

Channa


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## campervanannie (Jul 8, 2017)

Well I have rived the arse out of the engine tonight a 4 hrs 30 min trip and no light and it does feel like a different motor so far so good


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## campervanannie (Jul 8, 2017)

channa said:


> Some good advice re turbos and oil starvation ....re the warranty some will only replace an item when it has failed. !! ....At this moment in time it hasn't after the trip today, be mindful of this if making a claim. Back in my motor trade days,we had the ludicrous situation a component was obviously on its way out but hadn't failed so a warranty wouldn't cover it. I am confident the other guys here in the trade will have witnessed the same thing if dealing with warranty companies
> 
> Channa



Yes I agree Andrew I'm in a sticky situation but I won't lie to them but I have been concerned about the sluggish engine from day one so they are aware of the problem I intend to drive down to them on Monday/tues and have a face to face as there are other small problems that need looking at the major one is no handbrake lol that needs urgent attention and a broken skylight nothing major but we shall see what happens will keep you all informed.


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## Wooie1958 (Jul 8, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> Yes I agree Andrew I'm in a sticky situation but I won't lie to them but I have been concerned about the sluggish engine from day one so they are aware of the problem I intend to drive down to them on Monday/tues and have a face to face as there are other small problems that need looking at the major one is no handbrake lol that needs urgent attention and a broken skylight nothing major but we shall see what happens will keep you all informed. ��





If your van is on the ALKO chassis ( and i think it is ) the handbrakes on them are about as much use a a chocolate fireguard and is the only thing my van has ever failed on.

The first time required a new handbrake cable, you`ll need to sit down because when they tell you the price because you`ll feel faint     :scared:

The second time was just adjustment, even the garage struggled with that and it`s getting ready for doing again anytime now     :hammer:


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## campervanannie (Jul 8, 2017)

Wooie1958 said:


> If your van is on the ALKO chassis ( and i think it is ) the handbrakes on them are about as much use a a chocolate fireguard and is the only thing my van has ever failed on.
> 
> The first time required a new handbrake cable, you`ll need to sit down because when they tell you the price because you`ll feel faint     :scared:
> 
> The second time was just adjustment, even the garage struggled with that and it`s getting ready for doing again anytime now     :hammer:



And someone is now going to tell me that it's not covered under warranted. Lol


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## Wooie1958 (Jul 8, 2017)

campervanannie said:


> And someone is now going to tell me that it's not covered under warranted. Lol




Just trying to make you aware Annie, they are a special cable and not the Fiat / Peugeot standard cable that most places think they are.

They are prone to splitting if not routed correctly and then they get moisture inside them which rusts and seizes the cable.

My garage the first time spent 2 weeks trying to fit numerous Peugeot cables to it despite me trying to tell them it was a ALKO cable.

There are 2 choices, buy from ALKO ( mortgage needed :scared: ) or have one made but need you send them the original for them to copy.

There`s a place down Swansea / Cardiff way that makes them to order, sorry can`t find the link to it.


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## The laird (Jul 8, 2017)

Why don't you guys keep an old cable once one is renewed ,get one made and a member with the also chassis keep a hold until it's required,if members chip in it should be too deer then?
Keep a list of who chipped in obviously ,that how forum members like we have on here should operate?
My thoughts only


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## harrow (Jul 8, 2017)

Wooie1958 said:


> Just trying to make you aware Annie, they are a special cable and not the Fiat / Peugeot standard cable that most places think they are.
> 
> They are prone to splitting if not routed correctly and then they get moisture inside them which rusts and seizes the cable.
> 
> ...



Car Cables

:wave::wave::wave:


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## Wooie1958 (Jul 8, 2017)

harrow said:


> Car Cables
> 
> :wave::wave::wave:




Thank you very muchly     :dance:


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