# Do we have to have an external gas door??



## tosh (Jun 9, 2009)

Hi guys, just a quickie, i've tried to find out from other sources but you guys seem to be on the ball.
My father in law who likes to think he knows everything about everything, has informed me it is illegal to have gas bottles on board my van conversion without having an external gas locker door access to the bottle.
This is annoying if it's true as i've designed the gas bottle to sit discreetly inside the bottom of my wardrobe!
Anyone any idea on this issue?
Is it possible to just have an external cut off valve, with a sticker to point to it?
Is this even neccessary or required?
Any advice warmly welcomed, thanks in advance.


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## Deleted member 919 (Jun 9, 2009)

Can only comment on my own which is a Trigano Tribute and there is no external door fitted on mine as the gas locker is under the sink and access by the back doors so cannot see it being a legality
Rob


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## sasquatch (Jun 9, 2009)

At the very least it must be vented to the outside. A vent at the lowest point of the locker should be installed.


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## Yogihughes (Jun 9, 2009)

I don't know the regs on selfbuilds but I wonder what sort of ventilation you have installed?


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## Randonneur (Jun 9, 2009)

I've yet to see a VW camper with a gas locker door. I think if it is vented to the outside and has a gas drop out hole in the floor of the locker it should be ok. A sticker on the locker where the bottle is would be a good idea though.


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## runnach (Jun 9, 2009)

I would agree with Randonneur and New Rover there is no need to have an external door.....But must be vented and have a gas drop for safety.

Having experienced a gas leak in January I hate to think what could have happened had it not been vented etc 

Channa


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## NorfolkanGood (Jun 10, 2009)

Our van is a self build Transit High top conversion. I took advice from the SBMCC Self Build Motor Caravanner's Club SBMCC ~ Self Build Motor Caravanners Club

It is not illegal, or legal, to have an external gas locker door access to the bottle. There is simply no regulation to comply, with.
Our gas locker is situated in the bottom of the wardrobe at the rear of the van. Access is available through two wooden internal doors. One opens up inside the van, the other opens when the right hand rear van door opens.

There is a lot of 'discussion' around fire resistant gas bottle lockers, and also whether copper or rubber piping is best (safest) but there are no exact regulations.
You can virtually guarantee opposing opinions on this. But at present there is no UK or European legislation, ... yet!

As others have said it is very important  to have a ventilated base to the locker, so as to allow possible gas (leaks) to drop out. 
I'd also recommend making drop out ventilation holes all through the van at every gas junction (as you find in caravans). Again, it's not a legal requirement for a self build, just a sensible safety precaution.

Allyssa


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## westbay (Jun 10, 2009)

Agree with all the above.  When fitting out my Sprinter I spent hours trying to track down 'the Law' on this - easy answer is there isn't one.  The best way to approach it is to look at danger and risk.  Is the gas bottle likely to come to harm and would a steel box with outside door reduce this.  My answer to this is, no.  Stuctually, a thin metal box adds nothing to crash safety and virtually zero to fire protection.  The construction of the cylinder is extremely robust.  The danger comes from a slow leak from the pipework or from poorly constructed hobs etc.  So the answer is:

put the cylinder in a position close to the rest of your gas stuff and then make sure there is a bottom 'pan' with at least a 4" upstand.  This can then be vented in one or more spots - a 2" hole is fine.

an easily accessable internal door means than you're much more likely to TURN OFF AT THE CYLINDER AT ALL TIME AFTER USE.

Some will disagree and there will always be the 'it's against the Lorw' brigade, but use common sense and you'll be fine.


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## kangooroo (Jun 10, 2009)

I have a 2004 Kangoo Roo.  My gas locker is accessed behind the sliding side door (so no external door) and it isn't vented either  (   (I don't actually use gas and rarely even carry a gas bottle.)   

I've never found any legal regulations relating to venting gas compartments - or leisure batteries and motorhome dealers seems to have differing opinions.


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## topsy75 (Jun 10, 2009)

Randonneur said:


> I've yet to see a VW camper with a gas locker door. I think if it is vented to the outside and has a gas drop out hole in the floor of the locker it should be ok. A sticker on the locker where the bottle is would be a good idea though.



my vw (bay window) has no gas locker with or without a door, the gas bottle is just shoved into a cupboard below the hob, it is well strapped down though... we do have a couple of gas detectors which we replace every 3 months or so, the piping was rubber but when i had a propex heater installed the guy changed it all to copper pipes.

good idea about the sticker though, i'll sort one out tonight for it.


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## dogmanlpool (Jun 10, 2009)

just had my van inspected by the dvla and it passed with flying colors ?? and i dnt have an external door thanks keith


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## Deleted member 207 (Jun 10, 2009)

Germany has some well developed regs regarding gas installations in motorhomes, bi-annual pressure tests on the piping and appliances, ten year tests on the cylinders. At one time they were encouraging the use of external LPG tanks similar to the automotive LPG tanks. 

One of the most common areas for leaks from the bottles is the screw in/on connectors, next is the copper piping flares when the piping is not properly supported either side of the joint. 

I think that "best practice" would be to have an external locker, vented lower door panel.

Being able to easily lift in a gas bottle to an external locker and then do the appropriate connection and check for leaks (squirt of soapy water) probably outweighs any advantage in operation that an internal gas bottle has.


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## westbay (Jun 11, 2009)

Roger said:


> Being able to easily lift in a gas bottle to an external locker and then do the appropriate connection and check for leaks (squirt of soapy water) probably outweighs any advantage in operation that an internal gas bottle has.




Come on then, tell the truth - it's sheeting down with rain, you're parked up on a muddy field: do you finish with the cooker and get out, go round to the external door and turn off at the cylinder valve?


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## Deleted member 207 (Jun 11, 2009)

Nope, mainly because I have an external LPG tank which is hard plumbed and the gas is on for the fridge. The only time the gas gets turned off is when I'm filling up the tank.

I could also ask if you remember to turn off the gas every time? 

I guess one of the things that the regulators or writers of British Standards is respond to a need - I would supect that in Germany and other countries that have standards for LPG fitouts there have been some tragic accidents which caused a public demand for the regulations. Its surely far better to learn from an accident and try and do someting to prevent it happening again. The risk of regulations is that they stop something from being safer because of an absolute requirement to use an old technology that gets written into the laws.

Having a look through one of the German Test Certificates that I have it covers things like pipe supports at 250mm intervals, stainless steel piping and fittings, only one entry point for gas through a floor/wall, approved fittings, tanks/bottles date stamped with last test date, gas appliances turn off if flame goes out, each appliance has an isolation tap, roof vent and floor vent permanently open, pressure testing of pipes and appliances, appliances with CE/DIN marks, etc. etc.


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## Don (Jun 28, 2009)

I  am surprised to hear that their is no regulation, as you are probably aware canal boats and other leisure craft are stifled with safety regulation pertaining to gas etc.


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## Deleted member 207 (Jun 28, 2009)

Don said:


> I  am surprised to hear that their is no regulation, as you are probably aware canal boats and other leisure craft are stifled with safety regulation pertaining to gas etc.



Was n't there a series of fatal accidents in the 1980s on canal boats? For some reason I have a recollection that a family were suffocated on the Norfolk Broads by a gas leak.


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## Don (Jun 29, 2009)

I seem to recollect a number of fatal accidents in Motor homes and caravans. I for one pref err not to have the Health and Safety Quangos involved.

Don


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## AndyC (Jun 29, 2009)

Roger said:


> Was n't there a series of fatal accidents in the 1980s on canal boats? For some reason I have a recollection that a family were suffocated on the Norfolk Broads by a gas leak.



There have been several, even recently. There are still cases of carbon monoxide poisoning, and deaths due to fires, being reported. Thankfully the number of such incidents being reported is greatly reduced since the introduction of mandatory safety checks.

The regulations relating to boats have been modified over the years since being introduced in the 1980's on the canals (there were regulations in force before this on the River Thames.

Hire boats, quite rightly, have the most stringent regulations. For privately owned pleasure boats the emphasis has changed to be mainly concerned with risks to '3rd parties' and generally cover fire, explosion and pollution risks.

It does sound as though the German TUV regulations for gas in motorhomes are similar to those applied to boats in this country.

Sorry to go 'off topic' a bit, but my 'day job' is carrying out these safety checks on boats 

AndyC


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## kreos (Jul 3, 2009)

*Gas locker doors*

Hi there.  A couple of the previous vans I've owned have had gas lockers inside the van accomodation.  The only feature that I've noticed on them all was that they had "drop out" ventilators in the floor of the gas locker.  I assume that this is because gas is heavier than air, therefore any gas that leaks will fall out through the locker floor rather than build up inside the van.  Hope this helps.


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