# Leisure battery rcommendations please!



## Beemer (Feb 1, 2012)

Time to replace my leisure battery.
I knew my leisure battery was on its last legs over a year ago, but managed to squeeze many more months out of it by fitting a solar panel (I knew it wouldn't last much longer)... However, my battery cannot see me through one night anymore, so must be changed.
I currently have a 110Ah, and can probably only upgrade to a 125Ah due to the restricted space in the battery compartment.  As always, finances are slimmer than usual so was opting for this one off ebay.
12V SEALED XPLORER 125 AH HEAVY DUTY LEISURE BATTERY | eBay
Has anyone used this model or make, and what are your views on a possible alternative?
Thanks in advance...

Dave


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## Firefox (Feb 1, 2012)

I just bought 2 of these at 110Ah

Enduroline Ca+ Leisure Batteries - Leisure Batteries

I wouldn't necessarily recommend the Enduroline though, I am doing a test of two premium battery types over 5 years or so. I think you are making a good financial move of going for more of a budget brand. The best decision in pure financial terms is a budget brand. 

I had 2 110Ah Elecsols which lasted 2 1/2 years (continuous daily use). Probably about 400/500 cycles to 50/60% discharge. But Elecsol claim 1000's of cycles over 5 years which I don't believe to be true.

Your battery supplier states 500 cycles which if correct and you used them daily off the grid, topping up each day on solar and driving, they would only last 1-2 years not 4 as stated. This is why I reckon time based guarantees on batteries are meaningless because it depends on frequency of use.


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## Canalsman (Feb 1, 2012)

Beemer said:


> Time to replace my leisure battery.
> I knew my leisure battery was on its last legs over a year ago, but managed to squeeze many more months out of it by fitting a solar panel (I knew it wouldn't last much longer)... However, my battery cannot see me through one night anymore, so must be changed.
> I currently have a 110Ah, and can probably only upgrade to a 125Ah due to the restricted space in the battery compartment.  As always, finances are slimmer than usual so was opting for this one off ebay.
> 12V SEALED XPLORER 125 AH HEAVY DUTY LEISURE BATTERY | eBay
> ...



I'm in the market at the mo - so I'd be interested to hear how you get on with this battery ...


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## Firefox (Feb 1, 2012)

Canalsman said:


> I'm in the market at the mo - so I'd be interested to hear how you get on with this battery ...



That will be useful for if you're in the market in three years time! 

The more I see of batteries, the more I think they are all pretty much the same thing in the leisure/starter ranges. Just lead plates in sulphuric acid with different colour lables on them. The rest is all sales and marketing.

Some of the allegedly better brands seem to have slightly thicker plates or some kind of reinforcment for the plates. They can be double the price but I doubt if this means double the life.


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## Canalsman (Feb 1, 2012)

M m m (should be all capitals but it won't let me!)


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## Byronic (Feb 1, 2012)

Firefox said:


> I just bought 2 of these at 110Ah
> 
> Enduroline Ca+ Leisure Batteries - Leisure Batteries
> 
> ...




I've heard conflicting results regarding Elecsol batts most on the negative side when they state a "cycle" what exactly do they mean, from full charge down to 10.7V ie complete disharge? I presume it's to a standard eg BS or DIN.
I bought 2x110A starter batteries as leisure batts they lasted 10 years, used daily for about 5 months every year but rarely below 12.3V Solar panels topped them up most days. In the 7 months intervening periods the batts were left in place.
I can only attribute their long life to the quality solar charge regulator I was advised to install, which supplies a battery management regime (well that's what it said on the packet).
The batts were Halfords own brand, nowt special.


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## Viktor (Feb 2, 2012)

For info - just posted about Leisure Batteries in another thread.  I came across the article today. It's general info about them but not recommending a particular make.

I'll repeat the link here: Sterling Power Products: What is the best battery to use for an auxiliary charging system?


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## Bigpeetee (Feb 2, 2012)

Just a thought, but I've seen it said that you shouldn't have batteries of different AH sizes for your leisure batts as the higher AH won't charge up fully.

If that's the case then the leisure batts should be the same size as the starter battery as with a split charging scheme, when the relay operates, it puts your leisure batts in parallel with your starter, so if say your starter is 95AH then is there any point in installing larger batts if they won't fully charge from the engine???

Obviously if you have a solar panel then they will top up the batts as the engine batt is disconnected

A battery to battery charger will stop this issue, as well as charge quicker, but they're still expensive.

PS as I use a large inverter (2000w) I only use starter type batts as the "leisure" batts aren't designed or suitable for such shock loads.

Starter batts used in conjunction with solar power won't just run down to flat so much as they will get some kind of charge in daylight.


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## Canalsman (Feb 2, 2012)

Bigpeetee said:


> Just a thought, but I've seen it said that you shouldn't have batteries of different AH sizes for your leisure batts as the higher AH won't charge up fully.
> 
> If that's the case then the leisure batts should be the same size as the starter battery as with a split charging scheme, when the relay operates, it puts your leisure batts in parallel with your starter, so if say your starter is 95AH then is there any point in installing larger batts if they won't fully charge from the engine???



This is a fallacy - there's no problem in having batteries of different capacity connected in parallel. The capacity WILL equal the total of both/all of them.

However, it is definitely the case that if one battery discharges more quickly than the other(s), because it's older or of a different type, that will significantly affect the effective capacity.

So to optimise your battery storage, if the batteries are of the same type and same age, you'll get the best out of them.


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## Firefox (Feb 2, 2012)

Bigpeetee said:


> Just a thought, but I've seen it said that you shouldn't have batteries of different AH sizes for your leisure batts as the higher AH won't charge up fully.
> 
> If that's the case then the leisure batts should be the same size as the starter battery as with a split charging scheme, when the relay operates, it puts your leisure batts in parallel with your starter, so if say your starter is 95AH then is there any point in installing larger batts if they won't fully charge from the engine???
> 
> ...



This is OK, as under those condtions they will both be subject to 14.5V from the alternator. That voltage will overcome all of the leisuire and stater battery voltages and charge all of them.

The problem comes when two leisure batteries are freshly charged up at their rest voltages. Say one of them is an older one and can only manage 12.4V, and the other one is new and does a proper 12.8V. The newer one will continually be discharging into the old one, and if the old one loses charge at a faster rate, it will continually drag the performance of the new battery down,


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## jb0371 (Feb 2, 2012)

Look at a traction battery, they are commonly used in fork trucks etc, and are more designed for discharging with more power without damaging them


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## Techno100 (Feb 3, 2012)

Personally I recommend these. Fast well packaged delivery
Pair of 12V leisure batteries 125Ah each DC31 | eBay


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## Beemer (Feb 3, 2012)

Techno100 said:


> Personally I recommend these. Fast well packaged delivery
> Pair of 12V leisure batteries 125Ah each DC31 | eBay



Yeah...I like this too.... but I 'aint got 166 quid!  Shame really!:mad1:


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## Techno100 (Feb 3, 2012)

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

or individually. same batteries as Numax but less mark up


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## m30 (Feb 3, 2012)

I saw something on the telly (the Caravan channel I think) where the chap looked at a load of different spec batteries both leasure and cranking, which maybe the same as refered to earlier in MMM.

The conclusion he came to was the heavier the battery for its relative size the better, due to the fact it will have a thicker lead plates which will resist buckling and twisting under deep discharge conditions.

Stu


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## Byronic (Feb 4, 2012)

m30 said:


> I saw something on the telly (the Caravan channel I think) where the chap looked at a load of different spec batteries both leasure and cranking, which maybe the same as refered to earlier in MMM.
> 
> The conclusion he came to was the heavier the battery for its relative size the better, due to the fact it will have a thicker lead plates which will resist buckling and twisting under deep discharge conditions.
> 
> Stu



I have always believed that the main difference between starter batteries and leisure batteries was that  12V leisure batteries had 6 plates so they could be thicker and stronger and as you say resist distortion under deep relatively low Amperage disharge conditions. Whereas 12V starter batteries had thinner plates to give big Amps (Cold Crank Starting of an engine) for a short time due to their greater surface area, the downside being of course that should you discharge them by trying  numerous attempts to start a dead engine, then eventually you'll damage the battery.

I may have missed it in the Sterling article but I don't think the author mentioned this?


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## Firefox (Feb 4, 2012)

Well you'll see lot of "leisure" batteries listed as "dual purpose" start/deep cycle. I think this is rather telling.

I just wonder how much thicker that plates are and how much better reinforced.

The bottom line is if a £70 battery lasts 3 years, will a £210 one last 9 years? Probably not. Even it lasts 6 you are better off buying two lots of £70 batteries. This is where the advice to buy at the budget end stems from.


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## Byronic (Feb 4, 2012)

Firefox said:


> Well you'll see lot of "leisure" batteries listed as "dual purpose" start/deep cycle. I think this is rather telling.
> 
> I just wonder how much thicker that plates are and how much better reinforced.
> 
> The bottom line is if a £70 battery lasts 3 years, will a £210 one last 9 years? Probably not. Even it lasts 6 you are better off buying two lots of £70 batteries. This is where the advice to buy at the budget end stems from.



Dead right, the battery may say in the spec. (or you may be expecting it to have) "leisure battery with 6 thick plates" but the plates may well be as thin as starter battery plates.

With the starter battery the 12 plates are unlikely to be as thick as leisure battery plates so I suppose you've got more chance to get what you pay for.

I suppose the best comprimise is to get the cheapest batts that conform to say DIN standards.


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## NicknClair (Feb 4, 2012)

Firefox said:


> Well you'll see lot of "leisure" batteries listed as "dual purpose" start/deep cycle. I think this is rather telling.
> 
> I just wonder how much thicker that plates are and how much better reinforced.
> 
> The bottom line is if a £70 battery lasts 3 years, will a £210 one last 9 years? Probably not. Even it lasts 6 you are better off buying two lots of £70 batteries. This is where the advice to buy at the budget end stems from.



See the logic.......................... but I wouldn't be thinking these lines if I use equipment that pulls the batteries to 70-100amps on inverter use most of the time. The problem lies in how the van is used and what you are drawing from it. Most standard/budget batteries can cope happily with power draw up to say up to 50 amps (a very big approximation) as your typical Wobble Box (Caravan) is 90-100% plugged in, but wouldn't like to say after repeated use of a large inverter that the plates would hold up to the kind of strain that a hair dryer or Microwave can use?!
I agree on Charles sterling's statement on Lead acid Batteries and the maintenance type, as you can keep an accurate eye on them especially if you are near to 100% "Wild Camp" use. The only reason I have a Maintenance free unit fitted in my bus is that it was sent to me as a sample for testing and touch wood, seems to be coping well.

Budget is fine for minimal power draw as your demand is all about capacity, but as my example shows it's not just the capacity I am needing but also strength/durability. If I didn't have my free-bee, I would have been getting another Shield performance Plus 230ah unit;

Shield Batteries - Battery Manufacturer - Trusted Uk Distributor & Fitter, good batteries up to 135ah

http://www.shieldbatteries.co.uk/pdf/shield_car-comm_m.pdf, Performance plus comercial battery, which has the Ah rate but copes with heavy hits of power. Only the 230 unit from this page mind!! Check it's not the 6V unit!

P.S Beemer................ It's a same your not near to or heading to Somerset, as I would love to look at the bus to get more power into it. Have done a few Autocruises now and have managed to re-configure the set-up which has got more battery power into them.


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## Byronic (Feb 4, 2012)

My engine batteries are 2X88Ah Varta in series for 24V. The starter motor draws 3.5 Kw these batteries are now 10 years old and are still in use. 
Admittedly the draw is only for a short period, but 1Kw say, should be possible for a reasonable time without distorting the plates, the batteries should be disconnected before discharging to a damaging 11.7V or less in any case.


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## Bud (Feb 5, 2012)

I use x2 Rolls/Surrette 6FS 220 6 VOLT, wonderful batteries, we fulltime and never use EHU.


Paul.


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## maingate (Feb 5, 2012)

I have the chance of 2 x 220 Ah x 6 volt batteries for £200 but I think they will physically be too big to fit.

I also could get 4 healthy second hand ones for £70 each.

Mine are Numax 110 Ah x x and are OK at the minute but are 2.5 years old and might need replacing soon.


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## Byronic (Feb 5, 2012)

maingate said:


> I have the chance of 2 x 220 Ah x 6 volt batteries for £200 but I think they will physically be too big to fit.
> 
> I also could get 4 healthy second hand ones for £70 each.
> 
> Mine are Numax 110 Ah x x and are OK at the minute but are 2.5 years old and might need replacing soon.



Do you run your batteries consistently below say 11.7V. I find say 3 years to be a short life span. My last set of batts lasted 10 years. Over those years there must of course have been a reducing power capacity. It helped that they were over capacity to my needs when new, so I could afford a margin of capacity loss over the years. 
They still had some life in them. When I was taking them into the shop a bloke asked if he could try to start his car with one and it did, probably only once though.


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## maingate (Feb 5, 2012)

Byronic said:


> Do you run your batteries consistently below say 11.7V. I find say 3 years to be a short life span. My last set of batts lasted 10 years. Over those years there must of course have been a reducing power capacity. It helped that they were over capacity to my needs when new, so I could afford a margin of capacity loss over the years.
> They still had some life in them. When I was taking them into the shop a bloke asked if he could try to start his car with one and it did, probably only once though.



I always look after my batteries and have only once had a low battery problem (my control panel tells me and shuts down at about 11 volts). I might get more life than I am expecting but I might be better off changing them early.

The batteries I can get are deep cycle batteries used on Cherry Pickers and Scissor Lifts. Before my son joined the Fire and Rescue Service, he was an Engineer in this field. Occasionally, he does some examinations for a lad he trained up who now has his own business.

This might all be academic until I get the physical dimensions of them.


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## Byronic (Feb 5, 2012)

maingate said:


> I always look after my batteries and have only once had a low battery problem (my control panel tells me and shuts down at about 11 volts). I might get more life than I am expecting but I might be better off changing them early.
> 
> The batteries I can get are deep cycle batteries used on Cherry Pickers and Scissor Lifts. Before my son joined the Fire and Rescue Service, he was an Engineer in this field. Occasionally, he does some examinations for a lad he trained up who now has his own business.
> 
> This might all be academic until I get the physical dimensions of them.




The only thing I'm sure on when it comes to what I know about batteries is that I'm unsure.
I won't be that surprised if my present batteries only last 3 years for example.


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## Firefox (Feb 5, 2012)

If you can get the 6V traction batteries, those are the only proper deep cycle batteries. If you see "deep-cycle" on an £80 leisure battery that's just a marketing lie. I wouldn't discharge those any less than 50% or around 12v.


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