# Motorhome security



## BrianG (Jan 15, 2014)

I am very bad with security. For example my motorhome is parked on the road (a cul de sac) in front of the  house and twice this week I have left the rear baggage hatch open all night. I don't put the  alarm on because  it goes off intermittently and upsets the neighbours. Anyway I don't think anybody takes too much notice of them.
I am planning a  3 or 4 month trip in Europe and have decided to fit Fiamma door locks to the habitation door and rear baggage door. I don't think these are particularly substantial but being  very visible they act as a deterrent and I "may" notice them and remember to lock them.
Front cab doors and all windows are a different problem. My van is on a Peugeot Boxer base  vehicle and locks are not particularly good.
                       Any Ideas?


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jan 15, 2014)

Leave the keys in the van or sell it, or post your address on line  some one would have it.

Alf



BrianG said:


> I am very bad with security. For example my motorhome is parked on the road (a cul de sac) in front of the  house and twice this week I have left the rear baggage hatch open all night. I don't put the  alarm on because  it goes off intermittently and upsets the neighbours. Anyway I don't think anybody takes too much notice of them.
> I am planning a  3 or 4 month trip in Europe and have decided to fit Fiamma door locks to the habitation door and rear baggage door. I don't think these are particularly substantial but being  very visible they act as a deterrent and I "may" notice them and remember to lock them.
> Front cab doors and all windows are a different problem. My van is on a Peugeot Boxer base  vehicle and locks are not particularly good.
> Any Ideas?


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## sapper (Jan 15, 2014)

*front door security*

On each front door I have have attached a piece of webbing strap that forms a loop that hangs inside the door when closed, I then join thesed two loops together with a ratchet strap and tighten. If the locks are forced the door can still not open, simples. Yes they can smash the window, but my system means they can't 'sneak' into my van. Oh by the way...my front cab is not accessable from the rear living area (Iveco Daily) but it has a small hatch which I can just get my arms through to complete the fitting and tightening of the ratchet strap

As for the rear..... rtear doors big hasp and staple with padlock, one of those that have a round padlock that is shielded.

Side sliding door.... more of a problem because you also need to get in and out if away camping... As my door opens by pulling on the handle I am looking at ways to stop the handle moving some form of tie rod, but not really worked this all out yet.

I wou8ld suggest you sort out your alarm andf then use it, it will act as a deterrent and may warn you early enough to aprehend (or shoot) the culpritds before they get away with anything.

Chris


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## Deleted member 13867 (Jan 15, 2014)

The only thing with these additional door 'locks' is that they only keep honest people out. A determined thief would think nothing of smashing the cab window ripping the door off with a rope attached to a car or with a battery powered saw cutting their way in. And the fact that they will get in but cause much more damage doing it is an issue to ponder. I think a LOUD alarm is probably the way to go.
Dave


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## Rodeo (Jan 15, 2014)

What about an alarm that contacts your mobile when activated.Could also fit a tracker.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jan 15, 2014)

*Wire Free Alarms*

Re Alarms I have fitted for my neighbour with terminal cancer some exterior lighting to cover his external stair lift,
it would have been a pig of a job but I have converted his existing outside lighting with some wire free sensors etc,... they do several wire free alarms with a 70m range pir and door contacts the smaller unit is either Alarm off chime From the quality and ease of use of the ones I use I would recommend to any one here is the link, look at Titan RS

Titan Serials


However an Alarm of any description that keeps going off needs seeing to one of the biggest causes is a poor van battery followed by the bonnet pin sensor.


Alf


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## maingate (Jan 15, 2014)

Windows are the weakest point. There are lots of cheap, battery operated window alarms about. I have just bought some dirt cheap that were on offer at Halfords.

If you google window alarms and go on to the Amazon site, there are lots of cheap options as you scroll through.


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## Tezza (Jan 15, 2014)

I was thinking of one of these...obviously for when we are in the van and asleep in the middle of nowhere lol...are they any good?   FIAMMA DUO-SAFE PRO SECURITY BAR MOTORHOME/CAMPER VAN | eBay


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## Garcia (Jan 15, 2014)

Nothing will deter the serious thief. However, one can make it so difficult for the casual thief, that they'll pick someone else's.
I use a chain from the steering wheel to the door. Sustantial padlock. Gonna be too much trouble unless you're prepared to cause some damage.
Similar chain from the door lock to the inside secures the "garage" door. Doors and windows alarmed.
PLUS .....two big dogs, and a sign that says," make my day......BREAK IN!!"
Garcia


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jan 15, 2014)

Jim I was thinking more of people who park at home with the van on the road or on a drive out of view this will give you instant note of intrusion 

Alf





maingate said:


> Windows are the weakest point. There are lots of cheap, battery operated window alarms about. I have just bought some dirt cheap that were on offer at Halfords.
> 
> If you google window alarms and go on to the Amazon site, there are lots of cheap options as you scroll through.


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## maingate (Jan 15, 2014)

Tezza said:


> I was thinking of one of these...obviously for when we are in the van and asleep in the middle of nowhere lol...are they any good?   FIAMMA DUO-SAFE PRO SECURITY BAR MOTORHOME/CAMPER VAN | eBay



You can buy deadlocks which do the same job and are less intrusive. Just a quarter turn to set them and a key to unlock them.


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## Tezza (Jan 15, 2014)

maingate said:


> You can buy deadlocks which do the same job and are less intrusive. Just a quarter turn to set them and a key to unlock them.


hhaahaha...thats if your handy.....i cant even put up a shelf lol. just thought these would be within my expertise of DIY :lol-049::lol-049::lol-049:


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## vindiboy (Jan 15, 2014)

Security, Cab locks, Safe, Cable lock, etc.   - Buy Securely on-line  I fitted these HEOSAFE door locks to my front doors, and have Fiamma locks on all locker doors, and a very good alarm, which is also set when we sleep at night , also take all reasonable precautions when leaving the van unattended no problems so far .


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jan 15, 2014)

*Cab Door Locks*

With any additional Cab deadlock that you use whilst in the van remember you may need to exit the van quickly at some stage so keys need to be at hand

Alf


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## BrianG (Jan 15, 2014)

Thankyou all for your replies. Most of your suggestions I have alredy thought about but thanks anyway.
I relly think that highly visible fittings are best because they act as a deterrent. I did have an older van broken into when parked outside my house in Spain.  The broke the washroom window and climbed in. Whebn the thief (s) entered the living area the alarm went off. My wife and I didn't hear but my Spanish neighbour did. By the time he got out there the thief had gone. He managed to leave plenty of blood behind I am pleased to say.
I was very pleased to know the alarm prevented the van being rifled but still had to replace the window.
What I think I'll do is fit  highly visible exterior cab door locks and thinking of making easily fitted mock window bars out of lightweight material.
I agree nothing will stop the determined rogues but still feel high visibility is the answer.


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## flyinghigh (Jan 15, 2014)

I fitted four of these locks to my Adria last year, very easy to fit and can be locked from inside and outside with a key,       Verrou à Commande Intérieure & Serrure Porte Cellule - IMC Créations - Inducteurs, verrou camping-car, porte vignette assurance, clé Gaz
Visually they make a great deterrent IMHO and once locked  make for a very secure MH, money well spent
If just for the piece of mind


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## maingate (Jan 15, 2014)

Tezza said:


> hhaahaha...thats if your handy.....i cant even put up a shelf lol. just thought these would be within my expertise of DIY :lol-049::lol-049::lol-049:



You remove 2 screws from the door, slide the deadlock in and replace the screws. 2 minutes tops. 

Here is a linky thing. http://www.outdoorbits.com/heosafe-door-locks-p-82.html


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## BrianG (Jan 15, 2014)

maingate said:


> You remove 2 screws from the door, slide the deadlock in and replace the screws. 2 minutes tops.
> 
> Here is a linky thing. HeoSafe Door Locks - HEOSAFELOCK Buy SECURELY Online



Checked the link but can't afford that much. Must be a simpler option, probably the chain between cab doors. Just need to make it more visible, don't want the window broken before they see the chain. Big sign perhaps


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## Rodeo (Jan 15, 2014)

Visibility is the key I reckon so that the thieves move to easier targets.I'm sure that screwfix or similar sell heavy duty locks for workvans.Although I am going to fit an alarm as it wont cost me anything.


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## dave and mary (Jan 15, 2014)

As others have said if they wont to get in they will, most thieves are professionals and know all the tricks. In our years of travelling in Europe we have been in the wrong place at the wrong time twice, and lost quite a lot of stuff, after you have been robbed you put more alarms on your van, more locks, but if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time that's it.  :scared:



   :drive:      :drive:


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## maingate (Jan 15, 2014)

BrianG said:


> Checked the link but can't afford that much. Must be a simpler option, probably the chain between cab doors. Just need to make it more visible, don't want the window broken before they see the chain. Big sign perhaps



You can afford this visible deterrent.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/PIECE-MAGNE...&qid=1389803846&sr=8-4&keywords=window+alarms


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## dave and mary (Jan 15, 2014)

maingate said:


> You can afford this visible deterrent.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/PIECE-MAGNE...&qid=1389803846&sr=8-4&keywords=window+alarms



 So sorry to be so negative but when they force the window they just pull them of and stand on them, but good to let you know if you are in the van.


    :drive:     :drive:


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## maingate (Jan 15, 2014)

dave and mary said:


> So sorry to be so negative but when they force the window they just pull them of and stand on them, but good to let you know if you are in the van.
> 
> 
> :drive:     :drive:



Thanks for that observation. I am now considering a cunning plan.

If they were daisy chained together, the accumulation of decibels would make them sh1t themselves. Thereby leaving DNA at the scene of the crime, aiding their apprehension by Plod.

I might be on to something here. How do you contact Dragons Den?


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## Rodeo (Jan 15, 2014)

Ah! So you are going to use dragon poo planted as if it was human poo?:lol-053:


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## trevskoda (Jan 15, 2014)

i am lucky here just put a big sticker on van, ( uvf staff car  ),never gets touched:scared::lol-053::wave:


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## dave and mary (Jan 15, 2014)

maingate said:


> Thanks for that observation. I am now considering a cunning plan.
> 
> If they were daisy chained together, the accumulation of decibels would make them sh1t themselves. Thereby leaving DNA at the scene of the crime, aiding their apprehension by Plod.
> 
> I might be on to something here. How do you contact Dragons Den?



You are assuming here that the European plod are the slightest bit interested, unfortunately they are not.


 :drive:      :drive:


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## Teutone (Jan 16, 2014)

Tezza said:


> I was thinking of one of these...obviously for when we are in the van and asleep in the middle of nowhere lol...are they any good?   FIAMMA DUO-SAFE PRO SECURITY BAR MOTORHOME/CAMPER VAN | eBay



you can cut the triangular window of the door out with a stanley knife.......

I don't want to post more details of how to get into a motorhome. Bad enough that we have to deal with serious thiefs, I don't want to educate the dumb ones on top of that.

It is so easy to get into a motorhome, even with Fiamma door looks it will only take a minute more.

We try not to make the Motorhome attractive to thiefs in the first place, i.e. don't park it in remote locations

One simple step is to look at your Hab windows. Mine didn't have any sort of look on the little turn handles.
It just takes a bend coat hanger to open these. I have drilled a small hole in each handle and fitted an M4 screw through the handle. Sure I have to carry an allen key in the cutlery drawn and remove the screws on arrival (or whenever I want to open the window), but at least nobody can get into the MH in 10 sec.

But there are soooo many other ways to get in easy. It's shocking how little thought MH manufacturers put into this.


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## Teutone (Jan 16, 2014)

flyinghigh said:


> I fitted four of these locks to my Adria last year, very easy to fit and can be locked from inside and outside with a key,       Verrou à Commande Intérieure & Serrure Porte Cellule - IMC Créations - Inducteurs, verrou camping-car, porte vignette assurance, clé Gaz
> Visually they make a great deterrent IMHO and once locked  make for a very secure MH, money well spent
> If just for the piece of mind



I have some sort of similar arrangement. But the other day while cleaning the motorhome, I saw that even this is utterly useless if you think outside the box. You can still get in very easy. I don't want to post how.

But I do like the HEO inside door looks, at least when you sleep you have some added safety


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## vespalien (Jan 16, 2014)

Teutone said:


> (snip) It's shocking how little thought MH manufacturers put into this.



Maybe it's because they don't see it as a much of a problem?

OK, it's clearly a helluva problem for the individual if it actually happens, but it doesn't actually happen that often, does it? Insurance premiums tend to be fairly low too, which has to be a clear indicator that it is not a common problem.

As far as I can tell, a few expensive new vans will be stolen, possibly to order and opportunist thieves may break in if the van is left unoccupied somewhere isolated, occasionally thieves will target groups of vans on European rest areas. But the frequency of incidents against the total number of people and vans out there is tiny. 

In general, as I said on another post, the wilder the spot, the safer I feel, simply because there are fewer people around and given a small percentage of rogues, that reduces the risk considerably. I was accused of generating fear on another thread, but I really don't see the need for extreme defences.


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## pheasantplucker (Jan 16, 2014)

We don't have room at home or on the road and keep the van in storage. Not keen on keeping it at home anyway, as when it disappears for a few days or weeks it's an indication that the house is empty.
Indoors, we have a barking dog alarm, a box either transformer of battery operated, which gives a good impression of an Alsatian bark and senses movement even through walls. If we go away we have left it on at home, but would probably take it in the van if we went continental - it's a universal language.


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## CooP (Jan 17, 2014)

Teutone said:


> ... i.e. don't park it in remote locations...



But the only reason that I do this is to park in remote locations :rolleyes2::lol-049:

Personally I feel safer in remote places, I am never happy with all of the strange noises and activity in the built-up areas. Criminals do not generally hang around on mountaintops or on distant river banks, they tend to be where the crowds are. And I have enough of noisy neighbours and revving engines at home - I go away in order to GET AWAY.


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## phillybarbour (Jan 17, 2014)

As already said if they want to get in they will - so loud alarm is possibly the best you can do, however where yo park is just as important.


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## flyinghigh (Jan 17, 2014)

Hi Teutone
Going to your remark about motorhome security, could you elaborate on how it's possible to break into a M/H through the deadlock doors?
You can send me a PM if you prefer,
Regards
Flyinghigh


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## dave and mary (Jan 17, 2014)

flyinghigh said:


> Hi Teutone
> Going to your remark about motorhome security, could you elaborate on how it's possible to break into a M/H through the deadlock doors?
> You can send me a PM if you prefer,
> Regards
> Flyinghigh




Doors are not the problem but windows can be forced so easy, in our case they forced the small toilet window and put a child through, then they can open doors from the inside or open larger windows.



   :drive:     :drive:


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## flyinghigh (Jan 17, 2014)

Thanks for that, I am under no allusion about the ease that MH can be broken into, but IMO a tea leaf would prefer a MH without any obvious  signs of additional security over one that has, 

they want in and out in the quickest time so I will continue to use my deadlockes  if only to put my wife's mind at rest,


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## vespalien (Jan 17, 2014)

flyinghigh said:


> Thanks for that, I am under no allusion about the ease that MH can be broken into, but IMO a tea leaf would prefer a MH without any obvious  signs of additional security over one that has,
> 
> they want in and out in the quickest time so I will continue to use my deadlockes  *if only to put my wife's mind at rest*,



I think you may have it there. 

The "security" industry is probably about making people feel "secure" regardless of if they are or not - hence all the "gassing alarms" that are sold to people scared of being anesthetised in their vans. In my view most locks and alarms simply cause far more hassle to the legitimate owners than they do to the thieves.  

Lost your keys, or just misplaced them, or maybe the lock has malfunctioned? Need to break in - well, yes, but you won't want to damage your precious home will you? A thief will not give a damn if he smashes your pride and joy and will probably assume "it is insured anyway, and more fool you if it isn't".  

And even when insured, we all know how hard it is to get stuff fixed and find replacement parts - and how hard it can be to get the Insurer to pay anyway. Plus how long it can all take when we want to be out enjoying the good weather.


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## gipsy_jo (Jan 17, 2014)

Phesant plucker, Please can you tell me where to you got your Barking Alsation Dog Alarm Thank you  Jo


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## Wooie1958 (Jan 17, 2014)

gipsyjo said:


> Phesant plucker, Please can you tell me where to you got your Barking Alsation Dog Alarm Thank you  Jo




They`re not cheap :- Barking Dog Alarm from £39.99 in Security | Clifford James


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## rugbyken (Jan 17, 2014)

couple of years ago someone suggested personal/rape alarms they have a loop on one end and a keyring on the other the suggestion was to fix one side to the door pillar then as you go to bed flick the keyring over the door pop up button , i can vouch for their effectiveness as i got up one morning took the dog out then decided to feed her!!!! food being under front seat i woke the next town , luckily the ones i have you can activate a pause button underneath while you refit the pin but at 140decibel you do not want to be that close,
    their on e bay for from £1;99 to £20 but like everything worth the extra couple of quid for the override button etc


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## Rodeo (Jan 17, 2014)

Sounds like a good cheap idea, I like it! They are small enough to be fitted out of sight  so maybe not spotted by potential tossers before they attempt to break in, which maybe a good or bad idea!.A couple of yrs ago some large companies were giving them to women employees.


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## donkey too (Jan 17, 2014)

Wooie1958 said:


> They`re not cheap :- Barking Dog Alarm from £39.99 in Security | Clifford James



Don't buy from e bay sellers based in China as the dogs nark in chinese.


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## donkey too (Jan 17, 2014)

rugbyken said:


> couple of years ago someone suggested personal/rape alarms they have a loop on one end and a keyring on the other the suggestion was to fix one side to the door pillar then as you go to bed flick the keyring over the door pop up button , i can vouch for their effectiveness as i got up one morning took the dog out then decided to feed her!!!! food being under front seat i woke the next town , luckily the ones i have you can activate a pause button underneath while you refit the pin but at 140decibel you do not want to be that close,
> their on e bay for from £1;99 to £20 but like everything worth the extra couple of quid for the override button etc



I use these on mu back box and on my sheds at home they are very good.

As for my van I use one f these which is in the glove compartment and links by a loop to the two front doors. But the best deterant so far I have found is the strip of self adhesive LCD lights which run all the way round the van, fitted just under the roof guttering so they cant be seen until they light upand are activated by two infared thingies one each side of the van the whole van lights up when anyone comes within three foot of it. stays on for 1 minute.


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## vespalien (Jan 17, 2014)

donkey too said:


> I use these on mu back box and on my sheds at home they are very good.
> 
> As for my van I use one f these which is in the glove compartment and links by a loop to the two front doors. But the best deterant so far I have found is the strip of self adhesive LCD lights which run all the way round the van, fitted just under the roof guttering so they cant be seen until they light upand are activated by two infared thingies one each side of the van the whole van lights up when anyone comes within three foot of it. stays on for 1 minute.



That's a neat, cost effective solution and is also useful for barbies/ breakdowns or even late night dog "walking". I have an LED strip over the hab door as an awning light, but an all round one as a PIR security light is a good idea, thanks for that.


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## El Veterano (Jan 18, 2014)

donkey too said:


> I use these on mu back box and on my sheds at home they are very good.
> 
> As for my van I use one f these which is in the glove compartment and links by a loop to the two front doors. But the best deterant so far I have found is the strip of self adhesive LCD lights which run all the way round the van, fitted just under the roof guttering so they cant be seen until they light upand are activated by two infared thingies one each side of the van the whole van lights up when anyone comes within three foot of it. stays on for 1 minute.



Do you have a link for the LED strip lights?


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## OnTheRoad2 (Jan 18, 2014)

*Cheap but cheerful*

In my old motorhome I bought a PP3 battery holder, battery and flashing LED.  
http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/scared.gif.pagespeed.ce.do5kt4SAG0.gif
I positioned this in the dashboard area with only the red LED visible.  The LED was visible from both cab door windows.  Used it most times I was parked, supermarkets or overnight stops.  
Perhaps amazingly - it gave me peace of mind, and I never did replace that battery.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jan 18, 2014)

*Automatic LED light*

A fairly easy auto LED warning light is fit a LED light in a suitable place wire the positive connection to a permanent positive connection wire the negative connection to a switched positive.

with the ignition on the LED does not light

with the ignition OFF the LED lights
so each time you switch off you get the led lighting or flashing is you get that type of LED I have used this method for over 25 years as a supplement to our alarm I fit in the windscreen surround behind  the interior mirror I also incorporate a switch just in case I need to turn off at any time.

Alf


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## Tezza33 (Jan 18, 2014)

donkey too said:


> But the best deterant so far I have found is the strip of self adhesive LCD lights which run all the way round the van, fitted just under the roof guttering so they cant be seen until they light upand are activated by two infared thingies one each side of the van the whole van lights up when anyone comes within three foot of it. stays on for 1 minute.


I have two infra red lights on my van, one above each door but the idea of the strip lights is good, I can fit them under my awning and wire the strip light into my existing lights



			
				OnTheRoad2 said:
			
		

> In my old motorhome I bought a PP3 battery holder, battery and flashing LED.
> http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/...do5kt4SAG0.gif
> I positioned this in the dashboard area with only the red LED visible. The LED was visible from both cab door windows. Used it most times I was parked, supermarkets or overnight stops.
> Perhaps amazingly - it gave me peace of mind, and I never did replace that battery.


We parked with a lot of other vans at Narbonne Plage years ago, one morning about seven of the vans on the outside row where I was had been broken into overnight while the occupants were asleep, three vans were not broken into and that was mine and another who also had dogs and the third one that had a flashing LED on the dashboard, we thought that the vans were targeted early and they saw dogs with us so no attempt was made on ours but the flashing LED also made them move on to the next easier target


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## ashbyspannerman (Jan 18, 2014)

sapper said:


> On each front door I have have attached a piece of webbing strap that forms a loop that hangs inside the door when closed, I then join thesed two loops together with a ratchet strap and tighten. If the locks are forced the door can still not open, simples. Yes they can smash the window, but my system means they can't 'sneak' into my van. Oh by the way...my front cab is not accessable from the rear living area (Iveco Daily) but it has a small hatch which I can just get my arms through to complete the fitting and tightening of the ratchet strap
> 
> As for the rear..... rtear doors big hasp and staple with padlock, one of those that have a round padlock that is shielded.
> 
> ...



Hi, in our Daily we've drilled a hole through the top runner on the side door, just slip a bolt in there and the door will only open about two inches even if the locks are forced. The bolt is only pushed through so we can get out quickly if needed, don't know if you would be able to reach it if your bulkhead is still in place though?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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## Rodeo (Jan 19, 2014)

tezza33 said:


> I have two infra red lights on my van, one above each door but the idea of the strip lights is good, I can fit them under my awning and wire the strip light into my existing lights
> 
> 
> We parked with a lot of other vans at Narbonne Plage years ago, one morning about seven of the vans on the outside row where I was had been broken into overnight while the occupants were asleep, three vans were not broken into and that was mine and another who also had dogs and the third one that had a flashing LED on the dashboard, we thought that the vans were targeted early and they saw dogs with us so no attempt was made on ours but the flashing LED also made them move on to the next easier target


Not doubting Tezza, but


I just dont get this!  How could anyone break in and not be heard? Or you dont even feel the van rock or move? And other vans with dogs would surely hear something?


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## dave and mary (Jan 19, 2014)

Rodeo said:


> Not doubting Tezza, but
> 
> 
> I just dont get this!  How could anyone break in and not be heard? Or you dont even feel the van rock or move? And other vans with dogs would surely hear something?





 Now RODEO you are asking a question that no to my knowledge,  on one on any forum has been able to answer correctly, It has happened to a lot of people over the years.

   :drive:    :drive:


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## Rodeo (Jan 19, 2014)

Ah!well then it must be that gas that is so perfectly measured and administered that everyone has heard of, but no one seems to feel the after effects of! .........or it might even be a generous sprinkling of fairy dust!......or father christmas! :lol-049:

Im not doubting you tezza or trying to dis you, but I just want to know how they do it!


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## dave and mary (Jan 19, 2014)

Im not doubting you tezza or trying to dis you, but I just want to know how they do it! 



 US AS WELL. all the people that it has happened to can not be mad or senile or just sleep through it, HOW DOES IT HAPPEN. 

:drive:   :drive:


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 19, 2014)

Wine is usually cheaper in mainland Europ


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## dave and mary (Jan 19, 2014)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Wine is usually cheaper in mainland Europ



 Do you think that answers the question then Sharon ?




   :drive:      :drive:


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 19, 2014)

dave and mary said:


> Do you think that answers the question then Sharon ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cheap anaesthetic


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## dave and mary (Jan 19, 2014)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Cheap anaesthetic



yes but you are assuming that people drink lol.  



:drive:  :drive:


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## Tezza33 (Jan 19, 2014)

I don't know how they don't wake people up when they are rifling through your property but I have seen the effects after, they don't want to wake you and I suspect would be quickly on their feet if you did wake up so if I didn't have dogs I would certainly have my alarm on because the noise would make them run, I know they can get into a habitation door or a van front door without making a noise, they just put a screwdriver or similar in and turn it because standard locks are very weak,


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## Robmac (Jan 19, 2014)

I reckon they slip a drop of Benylin into your coffee then come back later.


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## Rodeo (Jan 19, 2014)

Just been talking to my son about this.He reckons me and swmbo snore so loud that they would break in our van undetected easily! 
I suppose motorhomes , as opposed to panel vans, are more at risk due to the type of locks , as tezza says.


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## Tezza33 (Jan 19, 2014)

When I had to repair the locks and I stripped them down I was quoted a ridiculous amount of money for the parts but I thought I had seen some locks similar in the past, I found them on an old Fiat Uno in the scrap yard (same part number stamped on) and managed to repair mine, they didn't stop people getting in to Uno's so they will not stop anybody getting into a £50.000 Motorhome.


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## rugbyken (Jan 20, 2014)

Mate of mine was broken into at 3am on pria at Nazare Portugal his wlfe doesn't drink but she didn't wake up till the intruder was sitting in the drivers seat rifling through glovebox , he had twisted the lock open but even afterwards it still took a key and locked /unlocked etc he used to always put his seatbelt through the door handles and link them but the door opened enough for the thief to cut them that was the most difficult thing to scourse & replace,he now has two bolted in eyes a length of Cain and a couple of padlocks , but Annie used to always say she slept better in the motorhome than in her bed but now sleeps poorly in the van,


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## Teutone (Jan 20, 2014)

CooP said:


> But the only reason that I do this is to park in remote locations :rolleyes2::lol-049:
> 
> Personally I feel safer in remote places, I am never happy with all of the strange noises and activity in the built-up areas. Criminals do not generally hang around on mountaintops or on distant river banks, they tend to be where the crowds are. And I have enough of noisy neighbours and revving engines at home - I go away in order to GET AWAY.



I meant remote locations in URBAN areas. You know, the sort of place where the Motorhome is hidden or not in plain view.


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## Teutone (Jan 20, 2014)

flyinghigh said:


> Hi Teutone
> Going to your remark about motorhome security, could you elaborate on how it's possible to break into a M/H through the deadlock doors?
> You can send me a PM if you prefer,
> Regards
> Flyinghigh



sorry I can't PM. will give you a hint. Hinges


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## rottiontour (Jan 20, 2014)

It´s a never ending story and always actual. Let me do  a sort of a "risk assessment".

I guess that the majority of thieves plans their attacks in advance. They plan, where to go, when to go, what target to attack, and how to approach and escape. They observe the targets and they calculate their individual risk. And so i think that nearly all attacks on mh are performed after observations. They are preplanned, and mainly not done by chance. 

For me the main question is: What are the risks for a thief? Cause having a major risk the theft may not be performed..

The Police? 
Not a risk, never in time in place .

The "Law"? 
Sorry, i answer only with a smile....not a risk for a thief.

The mh-neighbours?
Not a risk. Sleeping deeply, all doors and windows locked, all blinds up and often not willing to intervene actively. I even can understand, neighbours do not want a risk for themselves.

Sophisticated door and window locks?
Not a risk for a thief.....try and win.... or try and fail .....and proceed to next target/van. Most probably the car will be damaged. And having "the will" the thief will find "a way" into the van. It´s simply a question of damage.

Detection by the owner because of noise or movement?
Not a risk, thieves will choose the time and take the occasion, when owners are sleeping or do not pay attention. Thieves own the initiative, and being detected they will escape, cause to escape is part of their plan.
But the risk is zero, the thief can easily escape within seconds without any problems, because he is prepared to escape!!! And who really will run after the thief in the middle of the night.....the mh-retiree ?? ...with his old legs and rheumatic bones, sleeping deeply in his bed and needing ages to push his wife aside, and to creep out of the alkoven or bed for checking what´s going on! 
Sorry to all elder people, i´m one of these, but sleeping in the bed i´m not really a risk for a thief like a snake. Theft is a surprise attack, i am not prepared for that and deeply sleeping. And for sure those conditions occur for younger sportstypes as well.

Detection by loud and noisy alert systems?
Not a real risk, but it will disturb and probably stop the execution of the plan, it makes nervous. But there is all the time of the world for the thief to assess the situation, grab quickly and escape. No panic necessary, no real risk. But most probably the car will be damaged.

Detection by a dog?
-Small dog....not a real risk, but a pain in the a**. The risk to be detected and attacked is high, but to be severly hurted the risk is low. However,  a small and furious barking dog will disturb the plan and stop the thief´s action immediately. And the dog will defend the mh with his life....not a favorite situation for a thief.
-Medium dogs....medium risk. They will not only give alert, they may even chase an escaping thief effectively. They always are much faster then a human and they may bite and hurt. However it is still possible to escape, so medium risk.....very uncomfortable for a thief.
-Large dogs like shepherd, boxer, dobermann, rottweiler.....highest risk.
They will detect the thief at least inside the van, and they are able to "search and destroy", cause they are very fast and very strong.
This is the worst case for a thief AND  his buddies.....caught by a shepherd after 5 seconds,  collected by his old owner after 5 minutes and arrested by police after 5 hours....bad luck.

My own and individual conclusion:

A basic prevention against a thief simply is.... not to be a target. 
Be unpredictable for a thief, do not park at places, where the risk for theft is high, do not meet the plan and the expectations of a thief. Let all others park there and let them be the primary targets... lol, it´s bad isn´t it.

The second best prevention is a loud and noisy alert system supervising all doors and windows. It probably will disturb severly the execution of the theft, but i doubt that it will always prevent a damage of the car.

The best prevention is a dog preferrably a large dog, because they simply can be very dangerous for a thief, who wants to avoid any risk.
And having observed the van and recognizing a dog the thief will most probably not touch or enter the car.

But the most important fact still remains..... "be unpredictable". Don´t meet their plan!!
I try to park in those locations, where nobody does expect me. Areas where "they" will expect me e.g.  car parkings at tourist highways and routes, supermarket parkings in tourist towns, a tourist point parking, public beach parking i will avoid or i will not leave the car unattended.  And being a thief  i simply would use a "Stellplatz guide" .....and i would get them all... the "tourist-targets".

And i think that all fake systems like blinking leds or dog stickers with no dog inside are only good against rookies.

It´s still a big matter of discussion and my opinion is only an opinion. But i have the same opinion as my dog, we hate thieves....regardless if their childhood was an unhappy one or not.
My former mh was opened at the habitation door and damaged. Several times bikes were stolen out of the garage of my house. One car was stolen in front of my house and last but not least i was knocked out by two guys who simply wanted  fun. So i decided to stop that bl***y game. Since i own a dog there was only one trial to steel the bikes from the mh. It remained only a trial, not effective....stupid boys.

Regards
Bernd


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## Rodeo (Jan 20, 2014)

Many yrs ago we requested a quote for a house alarm.Guy arrived and immediately said"to be honest mate, you donnt really need an alarm,, youve got the best deterent of all" ...and  no he didnt mean the wife!......we had a large dog that was barking wildly at this person invading his space!


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## vespalien (Jan 20, 2014)

Many years ago thieves broke into my pal's house and cleaned it out while they were fast asleep. We apparently sleep very deeply at certain times of the night. What about your dog I asked? (it was a very active and noisy husky) It seems that the thieves chucked it a joint of meat before they climbed in thro the transom window, boy was it pleased to see them! 

All the gear was taken out the front door to a waiting van apparently. Biggest joke of all was that my pal was a bobby!! So a dog won't always save you, especially if it is nervous and hides; as I suspect ours might, despite barking loudly whenever anyone walks near the van when we are awake.


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## dave and mary (Jan 20, 2014)

vespalien said:


> Many years ago thieves broke into my pal's house and cleaned it out while they were fast asleep. We apparently sleep very deeply at certain times of the night. What about your dog I asked? (it was a very active and noisy husky) It seems that the thieves chucked it a joint of meat before they climbed in thro the transom window, boy was it pleased to see them!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## vespalien (Jan 21, 2014)

D&M,
Just because you don't understand how it can happen, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I just don't think it happens often enough to be a significant problem unless you put yourselves at risk. Of course it could happen to anyone, anywhere, but the likelihood seems to increase in certain places and circumstances. 

The comments by Rottiontour are interesting as he has tried to put himself in the criminals' mindset. I think he has succeeded pretty well too - perhaps he has "form"  (only teasing, it's how any detective or crime prevention consultant should think!)

Anyway, all my lockers are reachable without standing on the bed, not that there's much in them (or the rest of the van) worth nicking. Stuff like cash (only ever small amounts) cards, phone etc can be kept under the pillow anyway. 

On the other hand, how easy was it to take your kids' baby teeth from under the pillow and replace them with a shilling (I suppose it's a pound coin these days). Mine never woke up and the G-kids don't wake when I go in to turn the light off at night. We do sleep deeply at some times in the night, and it someone happens to wake, the thief can just vanish into the night. 

No, I can easily see how a deeply sleeping person after a busy day and a few drinks can be robbed. Once as a yoof, my pal had had a skinful and fell asleep in the back of the van on the way home. When we arrived we opened the back doors and pulled him out by the feet. His head hit the step and then the ground without waking him (our thinking powers were somewhat limited by alcohol too or we wouldn't have just pulled him out). We leaned him against the front door of his house rang the door bel and shot off as quick as we could before his parents came to the door. The following day he had no recollection of the journey home, but had a lump on the back of his head he couldn't explain.


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 21, 2014)

dave and mary said:


> I can understand a thief being able to enter a house and do his burglary, but what I just can not understand is how a thief can enter your m/h stand on your bed while you are asleep and go through the cupboards over your head and not wake you up, how do they do it, I know they are not aliens or use fairy dust and all the other stupid things. A lot of people will not post on forums about there night robbery's  because they know they will be ridiculed and just get stupid answers. As I said before no sensible answer has been given on any forum that I know of.
> 
> :drive:      :drive:



If the standing on your bed to open your cupboards is really happening, the *only* solution must be a dog. 
:dog:


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## dave and mary (Jan 21, 2014)

Sharon the Cat said:


> If the standing on your bed to open your cupboards is really happening, the *only* solution must be a dog.
> :dog:



Don't think a dog is doing it Sharon,  A lot of very good points made on the posts, but I think children sleep a lot sounder than when you get older,  but again so many assumptions that the person has been drinking, been driving for a long period of time, it has happened with non of those things in the scenario , so again how do they do it, I know it is just bad luck and being in the wrong place at the wrong time may be we will never know, the last time we came across night robbery's was a few years ago Nr. Barcelona when 3 lorry's had been robbed ( not the load but stuff out of the cab ) while the drivers were asleep.



   :drive:      :drive:


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## donkey too (Jan 21, 2014)

El Veterano said:


> Do you have a link for the LED strip lights?



Sorry no got mine from fleabay a couple years ago.


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## Val54 (Jan 21, 2014)

Touch wood it has only happened to us once in 20 years of m/homing. We were travelling back through Italy and stopped at a designated aire near Ferrara city centre. The aire has about 15 spaces, facilities and loads of CCTV. It was dark and late when we arrived and we were the only British van. We had a Hymer 514 then and Val was sleeping in the fixed bed over the garage whilst I had crashed out in the drop down. It was a warm night and Val being somewhat claustrophobic had the high level window partially open. I woke up to her shouting at me that someone was trying to break in. Seems she had heard a noise and thought it was raining, turned to look out of the window to see someone gently running a Stanley knife along the mosquito screen. He had pulled a wheelie bin to the side of the van and used it to get at the window. I think he got more of a shock when Val pushed her hand in his face and he fell off the wheelie bin and ran off. A moment later we heard a car roar away. We were lucky and in hindsight leaving even a high level window open was an open invite. Interestingly when we asked around in the morning none of our neighbours had heard or seen anything. It knocked our confidence for a while but you just have to get on with it. We now have a Chausson with more roof openings to avoid the need to leave windows open. We have also supplemented the van alarm with one of these Home security alarms| low-cost portable wireless burglar alarms | Sonis Europe
Dave


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## rottiontour (Jan 21, 2014)

A very interesting thread and nice and fair discussion.

Here is a link to a video, which shows an attack on tourists on a spanish highways taken by a police helicopter. It is in german, but the video is selfexplaining. And it fits more or less into "MH Security".

The thieves overtake the tourist car and throw a stone. The tourists stop because of the noise at their car , the thieves stop too in front and one of the thieves obviously offers his help to look after the "damage" at the right side of the tourist car. All tourists are involved at the right side during an attack on the left. They recognize too late.

Barcelona : Luftaufnahme zeigt Touristen-Überfall auf der Autobahn - Nachrichten Videos - Panorama (Videos) - DIE WELT

Very interesting is to see the structure of an attack and how one thief draws off the attention of the tourists and how another thief uses this chance to steal. The third one is the car driver. Too, it is interesting to see  how fast the attack is performed.

Once having  seen the video i can imagine quite well, how an attack is performed and what to do.
I agreed with my wife in following procedure, in which we drilled ourselves.
Whenever something like this ( unknown, inexplicable, surprising) is occurring during the drive, me or my wife, whoever is first, says:
"Stay inside, lock the door, close the windows, free the dog"..... and then watch out and decide slowly and carefully wether to continue driving or not.
This is to keep the initiative during that particular moment and not to become helpless because the situation suddenly is running over you.

By the way, i´m not the type to get hysteric or in panic. The knowledge about attacks does not make me nervous, but i hate to be a victim and i DO want to have a simple plan to keep my own  initiative, to help myself and not to be victim of a surprise attack.
To make a plan in advance is better than during an attack, heehee. And the worst plan is better than no plan.

Bernd


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 21, 2014)

dave and mary said:


> Don't think a dog is doing it Sharon,  A lot of very good points made on the posts, but I think children sleep a lot sounder than when you get older,  but again so many assumptions that the person has been drinking, been driving for a long period of time, it has happened with non of those things in the scenario , so again how do they do it, I know it is just bad luck and being in the wrong place at the wrong time may be we will never know, the last time we came across night robbery's was a few years ago Nr. Barcelona when 3 lorry's had been robbed ( not the load but stuff out of the cab ) while the drivers were asleep.
> 
> 
> 
> :drive:      :drive:



Mystified here. So how does that make a dog no good? 
Dogs can hear in frequencies ranging from around 40 Hz to 60 kHz & can hear sound up to 4 times farther than us humans. They are also genetically programmed to protect their pack. Yes an old dog may not be as good but I am sure most dogs would notice someone getting into your van and standing on the bed. Whether you'd had a drink or not.


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## Rodeo (Jan 21, 2014)

They seem a determined bunch of tossers!
We havent got a dawg, so I think my solution is to prevent entry by beefing up the doors by adding locks,and also fit a motion sensing alarm, ie pir's or similar and fit contacts to the doors and roof vent.Make the alarm and extra locks as visible as poss.


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## vespalien (Jan 21, 2014)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Mystified here. So how does that make a dog no good?
> Dogs can hear in frequencies ranging from around 40 Hz to 60 kHz & can hear sound up to 4 times farther than us humans. They are also genetically programmed to protect their pack. Yes an old dog may not be as good but I am sure most dogs would notice someone getting into your van and standing on the bed. Whether you'd had a drink or not.



It was a joke, Sharon. He said he didn't think the dog was committing the robberies. At least, that's how I read his post. Just shows to go doesn't it? :rolleyes2:


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## maingate (Jan 21, 2014)

I have 3 dogs who can stand next to a noisy babbling brook with the wind noisily blowing the leaves and branches about and they can detect which tree the Grey Squirrel is in with their hearing.

My vote is for a Dog.


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## Tezza33 (Jan 21, 2014)

They break in quietly and steal without waking you up, sounds like a 'cat burglar' to me, do you think it is called sharon?:dog:


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## BrianG (Jan 21, 2014)

I have two dogs which go evwrywhere with us. The older  one only barks when she sees another dog or a cat. The new young one barks and growls at the slightest sound, and does she bark? I defy anybody to know what dog she is without seeing her. She sounds like a mastiff or something.
I too find it hard to believe how people get into these vans, and I have never  considered this much of a risk. I  still find the oportunist yobo to be the main problem.
Being gassed in the van I am sure is impossible.
A movement sensor is a no no if you have dogs, also in windy conditions. Internal extra locks are good when in the van if only to make more noise. Window alarms, by the time they go off damage has been done.
As regards the diversion tactics, they are many and various. Be aware and don't trust anybodyy.


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 21, 2014)

vespalien said:


> It was a joke, Sharon. He said he didn't think the dog was committing the robberies. At least, that's how I read his post. Just shows to go doesn't it? :rolleyes2:



Oh dear, am I not paying attention again,  sorry.


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## Siimplyloco (Jan 21, 2014)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Oh dear, am I not paying attention again,  sorry.



Paws for thought needed perhaps?
John


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## silverweed (Jan 21, 2014)

They do get into the van whilst you are asleep and no we did not wake up. We were parked on the bank of the Midi Canal. My husband had been drinking but I had not nor had our two Yorkshire Terriers. One of the dogs was a real yapper when any stranger came near. They popped the cab Ducato lock with a screw driver and came right into the van. Rifled in the wardrobe next to my head, stole the cloths that had been left on the seat. I woke up because the open door was flapping by my face (prob as they left). The dogs even slept right through it which is what I can't understand. They dumped our cloths outside as there was nothing in the pockets and no designer labels. They took a pair of sun glasses but chucked them too as they were cheap. We were lucky, I always put valuables well away anyway. They had only broken into Ducato vans, must have easy locks. I can honestly say I heard nothing and felt no movement but they must have done this so many times they had perfected it. Lucky really not to wake as I wouldn't have been surprised to find they a weapon, going into a dark van and not being sure who was there they prob carried one


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## Tezza33 (Jan 21, 2014)

silverweed said:


> They do get into the van whilst you are asleep and no we did not wake up. We were parked on the bank of the Midi Canal. My husband had been drinking but I had not nor had our two Yorkshire Terriers. One of the dogs was a real yapper when any stranger came near. They popped the cab Ducato lock with a screw driver and came right into the van. Rifled in the wardrobe next to my head, stole the cloths that had been left on the seat. I woke up because the open door was flapping by my face (prob as they left). The dogs even slept right through it which is what I can't understand. They dumped our cloths outside as there was nothing in the pockets and no designer labels. They took a pair of sun glasses but chucked them too as they were cheap. We were lucky, I always put valuables well away anyway. They had only broken into Ducato vans, must have easy locks. I can honestly say I heard nothing and felt no movement but they must have done this so many times they had perfected it. Lucky really not to wake as I wouldn't have been surprised to find they a weapon, going into a dark van and not being sure who was there they prob carried one


One thing that really makes me wonder why anybody thinks 'why do they not wake us up', if we didn't sleep soundly in our vans then why are we doing this, I sleep better in the van than I do at home and I don't lock the doors or close the windows at home, maybe we are either too complacent just too relaxed


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## Sharon the Cat (Jan 22, 2014)

Scary to think that someone can get in and not wake your dogs. I rely on my dogs (& Phill) to hear things for me. Last week camped up in a NT car park I didn't hear cars that parked by us even with hearing aids in and we have no music or TV.
When I go to bed I really can't hear a thing. Mind you if I don't hear comings and goings I can't worry about them.


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## CooP (Jan 22, 2014)

Two points of view:

1. Dogs can be a great deterrent to a casual thief but here in South Africa the professional thieves just put rat poison into meatballs and scatter them all over. Please train your dogs to only eat from their own master's hand and to ignore discovered snacks.

2. It is surprisingly easy to sleep through all manner of sounds, even loud ones. Most of us do (or have done) slept with another person in the same bed or bedroom. How many times does either one toss and turn in bed without disturbing the other? How often do you get up to do various tasks during the night and your partner does not even flinch or make a murmur? 

Try it tonight - wait until your partner is soundly asleep and then make some noise, bounce the bed a bit, open and close the door, switch a light on, put the kettle on, wander about the house, rattle the front door. Get your partner to try the test on you, you may be amazed to know what you can sleep through when you are comfortably at rest. 

Throw in a long, exciting day of travelling, sightseeing, sunbathing, cocktails etc and you might sleep through a hand-grenade blast :wacko:


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## rottiontour (Jan 22, 2014)

silverweed said:


> ......The dogs even slept right through it which is what I can't understand. .....



Dogs have social behaviour and rely on each other. They like to be in close contact to each other, when they are sleeping, and sleeping is a state of unsafety. If the "chief" is calm and sleeping, there is no danger for the dog at all and the dog will sleep too. That´s the reason, why dogs always want to sleep in close contact to the other dogs or to the humans. In case something happens, they will recognize this by the movements of the others.

Our dogs sleeps very deep and calm, sometimes snoring loudly (he seems to feel really safe, heehee) and i can move through the car and he will not recognize that at once. So i put all valuables into the seatbox under the dog. If someone would like to get it, he at first has to push away the 50 kilo "monster" to get what he wants......good luck  

Be


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## GRWXJR (Jan 22, 2014)

*The "not worth the effort" approach?*

You could probably break into our van with a spoon the (laughably called) locks are that lousy.

But.... it's a humble LDV Convoy Hi-Top van, so my best defence is the fact that poor ole Sully will be looked upon as not worthy of bending a spoon to enter, cos there'll be nothing much in there worth nicking (not too far wrong there anyway )

Mind you in the event someone did enter while we were inside then we are pretty light sleepers (plus its pretty hard to open an LDV door without making some sort of din) - I do keep a handy length of scaffold pipe handy (its actually there for extra leverage when undoing me wheel lug nuts [officer]) but there's a fair chance that adrenalin and that being waved with abandon would introduce a rapid retreat for aforementioned scumbags.

Its a fair point to remember that scumbags are looking for loot - not trouble.  There's lots of risk and no profit from them getting into any kind of fracas or altercation.  So - if they disturb you the most likely result is that they leg it pronto - not stick around to argue the toss.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jan 22, 2014)

*Peace and quiet*

One thing to consider is that both owners and pets have had such an enjoyable time plus the travel involved and tend to fall into a deep sleep as soon as bedtime falls, well we have always found this to be true and I am sure  the majority of motor caravan owners will find this to be the case, this is one of the things they have the van for the peace and quiet and the enjoyment a van gives


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## landyrubbertramp (Jan 27, 2014)

i think alot of it is down to luck or being unlucky. factors such as use of vehicle i tend to wildcamp and park up with parked cars on streets so it aprears you are more parking than spending the night in it, but i cycle and run so my landrover camper has no one in for hours at a time which of course gives a greater risk, anyone that wants to can get in even if its a good security vehicle all they need to do is put a window through. as most campers ad m homes dont have a bulk head in 30 secs a thief has the time to get in and have a good look round. given this ive got down the approach of making sure my valuables are locked in a strong tool box type cabinet. having a land-rover ive gone down the route of a steering lock pedal lock cutting power to the starter battery and soon a fuel cut off all to slow down the thief. other than that its all about the fear of crime,  regards lee


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## silverweed (Jan 28, 2014)

Although we'v had that one break in I don't worry about it. It probably will never happen again. The French family that were also caught that night said they had been going there for 20years and had had no problems before so it's just luck or should I say bad luck. I think a little more about where I am leaving the van for long hours in the day time but still go to bed with a peaceful mind. I got the van to enjoy myself and I'm going to do just that. I will not allow anyone to take that away, and at least I am in control of that


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## Rodeo (Feb 4, 2014)

Reading all the different views on this thread, it doesnt seem that any one security measure is going to stop them, whether it be a M/H or a van.Probably M/H's being more vulnerable due to the more lightweight materials used for the bodies, maybe vans a bit less vulnerable , Im not sure.My thoughts on security for my Transit self build have definitely changed due to the content of this thread.A visible alarm with pir sensors and visibly internally bolted doors will be a start methinks.Plus , as advised, think like thief when parking up etc.


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## bigears (Feb 4, 2014)

We have Heolocks on the front doors. Thinking of getting the Thule inside /out lock for the habitation door, they also do the locks for the front doors. Look at the Millenco website. Hope this is helpful. Good luck!


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## Toonman (Feb 8, 2014)

Sorry to drag this theme up again from the grave but I have just purchased this alarm padlock to attach between the two front doors and thought it might meet the needs of other members. It says that there are more than ten available so it might be more sucessful than my last recommendation.

New Motorbike Alarm Lock Motion Sensor Security Waterproof Bike Siren Padlock | eBay


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