# New passport system for the EU (Schengen)



## barryd (Nov 21, 2021)

This may have already been covered









						Wave goodbye to passport stamps in EU border overhaul
					

Visitors will need to swipe in and out of the EU next year as it looks to tighten up on security and people outstaying their visas.




					www.euronews.com
				




I know there were concerns about working out your 90 days etc and also concerns that if you skipped out of Schengen say into Morocco or Croatia as a way of extending your 90 days without coming home you would need to make sure you got your passport stamped but if this system is to be in place at every external Schengen border then presumably it will deal with all of that so no need to worry?

It certainly puts paid to any thoughts of perhaps winging it a bit and staying longer not that I was planning on doing that.

Will it work with our current passports?


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## alcam (Nov 21, 2021)

barryd said:


> This may have already been covered
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Think passports in the last few years are designed for this ?
Experienced the biometric thingy on recent US trips . Though they still do the manual thing too which is , in my mind , self defeating


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## barryd (Nov 21, 2021)

Actually that reminds me.  I Think my passport has expired but Mrs Ds probably has year or two on it. It will be interesting to find out if we need to update any older passports that are still valid and at what cost.


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## alwaysared (Nov 21, 2021)

barryd said:


> Actually that reminds me.  I Think my passport has expired but Mrs Ds probably has year or two on it. It will be interesting to find out if we need to update any older passports that are still valid and at what cost.


The UK started issuing biometric passports in 2010 so in theory based on the ten year life span most people should already have one  
I think the biometric ones have a camera symbol on the front 

Regards,
Del


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## GeoffL (Nov 21, 2021)

FWIW, Australia have had a similar system for at least a decade. No stamps, they just scan your passport and declaration card in and out. Visas are also digital, stored on the Immi system and linked to your passport number. Visitors have an Immi account and can update their passport details online or via a manual form should their passport be renewed before their visa expires. The system works really well and, personally, I welcome the EU adopting a similar system.


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## barryd (Nov 21, 2021)

I agree, its a good idea mainly from my point of view that I was concerned about driving into somewhere like Croatia perhaps on a B road and not getting a stamp, spending a month or two there before heading back into Schengen and then when you leave having no proof you left the zone for month. Hopefully this should prevent that.


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## r4dent (Nov 21, 2021)

barryd said:


> I agree, its a good idea mainly from my point of view that I was concerned about driving into somewhere like Croatia perhaps on a B road and not getting a stamp, spending a month or two there before heading back into Schengen and then when you leave having no proof you left the zone for month. Hopefully this should prevent that.




Don't see how this prevents the problem.
If there is a visa checking station then they should have stamped the passport, if not who checks the visa.

Best stick to main exit points.


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## barryd (Nov 21, 2021)

r4dent said:


> Don't see how this prevents the problem.
> If there is a visa checking station then they should have stamped the passport, if not who checks the visa.
> 
> Best stick to main exit points.



I assume (not been) there are proper borders on all Croatias entry and exit points.  I think one of the reasons this was brought in was to beef up security and to account for all entry and exits and make them faster.

Also from the article. "it’s also hoped that the scanners will spell an end to the inconsistent passport stamping that non-EU nationals living in EU countries have experienced. This has reportedly been a particular problem for Brits since Brexit who have been left “frustrated” by incorrect stamps"

Pretty sure I have seen posts from people saying they have been in and out of Schengen without a stamp. Not a problem until Brexit of course but it could be a costly one now if they think you have overstayed when you return to the UK and you cant prove you left the zone. In theory it shouldn't happen now.


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## GMJ (Nov 21, 2021)

This does kind of force folks to now stick to the main routes as has been mentioned above. No more bimbling your way across borders as before.


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## barryd (Nov 21, 2021)

GMJ said:


> This does kind of force folks to now stick to the main routes as has been mentioned above. No more bimbling your way across borders as before.



I think the internal Schengen borders wont change for us, you will still be able to bimble in and out its when you leave or enter Schengen that security and checks is beefed up.


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## GMJ (Nov 21, 2021)

Yes I knew that Barry, my bad...I was on about Schengen borders with the outside world!


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## barryd (Nov 21, 2021)

GMJ said:


> Yes I knew that Barry, my bad...I was on about Schengen borders with the outside world!



I dont think you could just meander out or in of Schengen before though.  I think the issue I was concerned about is people were saying their passports were not getting stamped.


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## Snapster (Nov 22, 2021)

r4dent said:


> Don't see how this prevents the problem.
> If there is a visa checking station then they should have stamped the passport, if not who checks the visa.
> 
> Best stick to main exit points.


A visa won’t allow you to travel throughout the Schengen zone for more than the 90/180 limit, you would need to apply for a visa for each country you want to visit.


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## Boris7 (Jan 2, 2022)

Snapster said:


> A visa won’t allow you to travel throughout the Schengen zone for more than the 90/180 limit, you would need to apply for a visa for each country you want to visit.


I’ve not looked into that in detail as this doesn’t effect me, but I’m lead to believe you simply get an EU visa Here I only glanced but if your effected I’d suggest reading the whole thing.

I’m told that in effect once you’ve done your 90 days you apply for the visa for the next 90 days.


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## Snapster (Jan 2, 2022)

U.K. citizens don’t need that EU visa, they can travel visa free within the Schengen zone for up to 90 days ( in 180). It’s only for visits over 90 days when you require a visa, and then it’s ( as I understand it) per country.
You can only apply for a visa within your home country. So you could not apply for a visa after your first 90 days without returning home.


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## jagmanx (Jan 2, 2022)

barryd said:


> Actually that reminds me.  I Think my passport has expired but Mrs Ds probably has year or two on it. It will be interesting to find out if we need to update any older passports that are still valid and at what cost.


I renewed my uk passport in June.
Got digital (and real) photos at a booth with a code.
used this code as part of a fully online process.
Had to send my old passport.
new passport within 3 days and a week later my old passport came back (cancelled)
i am a harsh critic of the home office but this was excellent.
i doubt that the expiry of your old passport will cause a problem.


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## Brockley (Jan 2, 2022)

I think there is a little way to go yet as far as firming all of this up goes. Our first trip since Brexit involved a ferry from home to Dublin then a ferry to Cherbourg. My wife has an Irish passport therefore the 90 day in 180 rule doesn’t apply to us providing I’m travelling with her. That’s not to say that the average border controller would know any of this, we both had our passports entry date stamped at Cherbourg! I must get round to getting the relevant EU legislation printed off in a few languages and laminated ready to show as I certainly wouldn’t want to verbally argue the toss with any of them!

My take on bimbling in and out (something we like to do) is that it can be done because most minor roads don’t have manned border controls, therefore wherever you are in mainland Europe is irrelevant. I was under the impression that U.K. passport holders are bound by the Schengen rule once you have that entry date stamp, you are free to travel Europe for 90 days before ducking out of the Schengen area for the next 90 days. Although I’ve heard that it’s sensible to duck out 4 or 5 days before the 90 day expiry just in case something unforeseen happens and you need to use those ‘banked days’ to get home in a hurry!

This said, in order to prove your length of stay, as long as you have your date of entry stamped and use a manned border before crossing into a non Schengen country and get that exit date stamped, isn’t this proof of exit? I also believe you can get an app which will count down the days required to suit your own itinerary.

Bank statements will also be evidence.

As said, all of this silliness doesn’t affect us but for those affected - where there’s a will there’s a willy.

This is of course all my own interpretation and I’ll stand corrected if I’ve misinterpreted or missed any of the new ruling!?


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## witzend (Jan 2, 2022)

Renewing your P/P on line saves £9.50 compared to post. We did ours taking our own photos which where accepted as we took them by the application program. Don't forget your passport is only now valid for 10 yrs any extra gained by applying early  is no longer accepted








						Woman loses £2,000 after being hauled off flight to Tenerife due to Brexit passport changes
					

A woman has told of her frustration after being removed from a flight to Spain and having her New Year’s Eve “ruined” over a little-known change to post-Brexit passport rules.  Aya Shillingford, 36, said she was “devastated” after staff escorted her from her Jet2 flight to Tenerife on Thursday...




					uk.news.yahoo.com
				






> While the UK was in the European Union, British passports were valid up to and until the date of expiry. Many passports issued in the UK last up to 10 years and 9 months due to the Government’s policy of allowing “unspent” time for the renewal process.


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## Annsman (Jan 3, 2022)

Hi. It is important you get your passport stamped when entering and leaving a Schengen area. It’s worth checking this gets done at airports too! We had personal experience of this in November coming back through the tunnel. Strap in this is a long one!
Ann, my wife goes on holiday for two weeks, in June with her sister to Lanzarote. Her passport was stamped when she arrived there. But NOT when she left, or arrived in Manchester. It seems at Manchester they arent, or weren’t, staffed to stamp passports, because they use the auto machines. 
In September she went again, but this time her passport wasn’t stamped on arrival at Lanza, or when she left The UK.
Meanwhile, I left for Spain in the van, passport stamped at Dover. Drove to Spain and then met her in Malaga, she flew from Lanza direct, so no stamp because it’s an internal Spanish flight. Fast forward to Calais in November and we duly show our passports. I’d counted they days and we were at day 82 of our 90. Except we weren’t!

Well to be accurate according to her passport she had been there since June! Senior people were called to the check in queue to make a decision as whether to arrest her, deny her entry into The UK, fine her, upto 10,000 Euros, or accept my story. Finally after being taken out of the queue, the van checked by armed security for weapons and illegal immigrants, the senior bod accepted the emails for both holiday flights I’d kept on my phone, and we were allowed through. They wrote in her passport the dates and times, so it wouldn’t happen again.
The moral of the story is they DO check and DO count up the days! Be warned people! 
BTW. This is a UK rules introduced when we were in the UK to stop pesky foreign people from outside The EU overstaying their time in the EU and UK, coming back to bite us! How we laughed!


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## barryd (Jan 3, 2022)

Annsman said:


> Hi. It is important you get your passport stamped when entering and leaving a Schengen area. It’s worth checking this gets done at airports too! We had personal experience of this in November coming back through the tunnel. Strap in this is a long one!
> Ann, my wife goes on holiday for two weeks, in June with her sister to Lanzarote. Her passport was stamped when she arrived there. But NOT when she left, or arrived in Manchester. It seems at Manchester they arent, or weren’t, staffed to stamp passports, because they use the auto machines.
> In September she went again, but this time her passport wasn’t stamped on arrival at Lanza, or when she left The UK.
> Meanwhile, I left for Spain in the van, passport stamped at Dover. Drove to Spain and then met her in Malaga, she flew from Lanza direct, so no stamp because it’s an internal Spanish flight. Fast forward to Calais in November and we duly show our passports. I’d counted they days and we were at day 82 of our 90. Except we weren’t!
> ...



Wow! Quite a story.

Presumably the new EES schengen system will eliminate issues like this when it supposedly comes online this year.






						The Schengen Entry/Exit System: biometrics to facilitate smart borders
					

The EU Entry/Exit System will create a unified database on the entry and exit movements of Third Country Nationals.  Discover the EES system.




					www.thalesgroup.com
				




However, presumably our borders or passports at least have to be EES ready / compatible.  I am sure our government will have thought about this of course so what could possibly go wrong?


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## Annsman (Jan 3, 2022)

barryd said:


> Wow! Quite a story.
> 
> Presumably the new EES schengen system will eliminate issues like this when it supposedly comes online this year.
> 
> ...


How long have you got!


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## Fisherman (Jan 3, 2022)

Annsman said:


> Hi. It is important you get your passport stamped when entering and leaving a Schengen area. It’s worth checking this gets done at airports too! We had personal experience of this in November coming back through the tunnel. Strap in this is a long one!
> Ann, my wife goes on holiday for two weeks, in June with her sister to Lanzarote. Her passport was stamped when she arrived there. But NOT when she left, or arrived in Manchester. It seems at Manchester they arent, or weren’t, staffed to stamp passports, because they use the auto machines.
> In September she went again, but this time her passport wasn’t stamped on arrival at Lanza, or when she left The UK.
> Meanwhile, I left for Spain in the van, passport stamped at Dover. Drove to Spain and then met her in Malaga, she flew from Lanza direct, so no stamp because it’s an internal Spanish flight. Fast forward to Calais in November and we duly show our passports. I’d counted they days and we were at day 82 of our 90. Except we weren’t!
> ...


There have been hundreds of cases of this happening to people.
As far as I am aware no one has been penalised to date.
Currently member states are taking the view that these are "teething issues."
But before long they may change their approach.
We have to realise that we are no longer  EU members, and we gave up rights of membership.
When entering the US your entry along with finger prints and retina scans are taken, and your departure is logged onto their system.
I would think before long this will be what happens here.
No wonder the Irish are inundated with requests for passports from those with Irish parents.


uk-advises-its-citizens-to-ensure-their-passports-are-stamped-when-travelling-to-from-the-eu

british-residents-in-eu-start-facing-the-harsh-reality-of-travelling-post-brexit


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## colinm (Jan 3, 2022)

Brockley said:


> I think there is a little way to go yet as far as firming all of this up goes. Our first trip since Brexit involved a ferry from home to Dublin then a ferry to Cherbourg. My wife has an Irish passport therefore the 90 day in 180 rule doesn’t apply to us providing I’m travelling with her.


Have you thoroughly checked that? I think we have been here before, it seems you can waunder around the Schengen area with no limits, but if you stop for more than 90 days in any country other rules apply.


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## TJBi (Jan 3, 2022)

colinm said:


> Have you thoroughly checked that? I think we have been here before, it seems you can waunder around the Schengen area with no limits, but if you stop for more than 90 days in any country other rules apply.


"...it seems..."
Based on what authoritative source?


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## Fisherman (Jan 3, 2022)

Brits married to EU citizens are not bound by 90/180 day rule and can live in Spain​Author:  
Posted on April 14, 2021
Posted in More Insight | Tagged Brexit, Residency |
FacebookTwitterShare

Diligent research by a reader establishes that Brits (and other non-EU nationals) with EU spouses are not bound by the 90/180 day rule, and can live in Spain without having to get a visa – something that has not been widely reported in the British press.
“I’ve been trying to find out from varied sources over the last few months whether being an UK citizen married to an Irish citizen I was exempt from the EU 90/180 day rule,” explains reader John by email. “I had been led to believe the only way was through residency.”
Thanks to John’s research we know that if your spouse is an EU citizen you don’t have to worry about the 90/180 day rule travelling in the Schengen area, and you can stay in Spain as long as you like with your spouse, so long as you meet other requirements. Brexit is not a barrier if you are married to an EU citizen.
“I hope the reply below from the Europe Direct Contact Centre will be useful for British or other third-country citizens, married or in a partnership with E.U. citizens, who wish to escape this rule without taking out residency,” explains John. Another reader commented “I reckon an article on the subject would be interesting because there are a lot of people in that situation and do not recall anything in the national press which covers it.”
So here’s what the Europe Direct Contact Centre has to say about the rights Brits married to EU citizens to travel and live in Spain and other EU member states. Thanks to the reader ‘John Boy’ for the information.


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## REC (Jan 3, 2022)

Freedom of movement for EU citizens. and their family members, overrides Schengen agreement rules. Very confusing but the EU directive





						EUR-Lex - l33152 - EN - EUR-Lex
					






					eur-lex.europa.eu
				



covers rights of freedom of movement and residence.
Even the border guards are confused about this. Residents of an EU country should NOT have their passport stamped on entry to Schengen zone as 90day rule doesn't apply. I know people who reside in Portugal but are UKcitizens, get into trouble when returning to uk for a visit as it looks like they have overstayed from previous crossing of French border.


edit...Crossed with Fisherman's post!


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## jacquigem (Jan 3, 2022)

Tax residency is something different that needs to be considered if you are planning more than 180 days I believe. ?


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## REC (Jan 3, 2022)

jacquigem said:


> Tax residency is something different that needs to be considered if you are planning more than 180 days I believe. ?


Definetely, becomes more complicated as staying more than 184days (I think!) Means you become a tax resident of the country as live there more than uk.


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## witzend (Jan 3, 2022)

As I've posted before 90 day trips OK for us it's just the 90 day period before we can go again that hurts. Has anyone found any thing about a visa yet


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## colinm (Jan 3, 2022)

TJBi said:


> "...it seems..."
> Based on what authoritative source?


That would be here.








						Your non-EU spouse and children's residence rights in the EU - Your Europe
					

You are an EU citizen moving to another EU country to live, work or study? Your spouse, children and grandchildren can join you, even if they are not EU nationals.




					europa.eu


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## Fisherman (Jan 3, 2022)

So if one of you have Irish parents, or possibly grandparents, apply for an Irish passport and you can forget about the 90 day rule. my dad was Irish, and I have his birth and Matt sign certificates. But I don’t reckon I will bother.


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## REC (Jan 3, 2022)

Fisherman said:


> So if one of you have Irish parents, or possibly grandparents, apply for an Irish passport and you can forget about the 90 day rule. my dad was Irish, and I have his birth and Matt sign certificates. But I don’t reckon I will bother.


That is why the Irish were inundated with UK people wanting passports, believe they now say only parents should be Irish not grandparents, but could be mistaken!


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## Fisherman (Jan 3, 2022)

REC said:


> That is why the Irish were inundated with UK people wanting passports, believe they now say only parents should be Irish not grandparents, but could be mistaken!


You can get citizenship if one of your parents were born in Ireland before 2006.
You are automatically deemed to be Irish born abroad. Over 200,000 unionists in Northern Ireland have applied. Most Catholics in Northern Ireland already had Irish passports. If your grandparents were Irish it’s much more difficult, and cannot be done online.
Many who voted for the unmentionable are now looking for Irish passports.
I am considering it, but I don’t think I will.


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## r4dent (Jan 3, 2022)

witzend said:


> Don't forget your passport is only now valid for 10 yrs *any extra gained by applying early  is no longer accepted*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not accurate. The article you linked to says
_According to the Government website, “Your passport must be less than 10 years old on the day you enter (check the ‘date of issue’).
“Your passport must be valid for at least 3 months after the day you plan to leave (check the ‘expiry date’).”_

If passport was issued on 14/2/12  and expires 1/8/22 you can enter EU on 1/2/22 and leave within 90 days (before 1/5/22)
If passport was issued on 14/2/12  but expires 13/2/22 you can enter EU on 1/2/22 but must leave with 13 days.


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## witzend (Jan 3, 2022)

r4dent said:


> Not accurate. The article you linked to says


What it Amounts to is your passport is only Valid for 10yrs from its issue date


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## GeoffL (Jan 3, 2022)

First, many thanks to @REC, @Fisherman  and @colinm for the links upthread. I have a Dutch friend who is a UK resident with a wife who is a UK citizen who wants to spend six months in France with one of their children and the other six months each year with another child in UK. She's worried sick about the Schengen rules and those links strongly suggests her worries are unfounded.



r4dent said:


> Not accurate. The article you linked to says
> _According to the Government website, “Your passport must be less than 10 years old on the day you enter (check the ‘date of issue’).
> “Your passport must be valid for at least 3 months after the day you plan to leave (check the ‘expiry date’).”_
> 
> ...


While the basic point is true, the last line is incorrect. If your passport expires on 13/2/22 you must leave no later than 3 months before that date (i.e. 13/11/21). Hence you would not be allowed to enter the EU on 1/2/22 since the 3 month cut-off is prior to that.


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## Brockley (Jan 3, 2022)

colinm said:


> Have you thoroughly checked that? I think we have been here before, it seems you can waunder around the Schengen area with no limits, but if you stop for more than 90 days in any country other rules apply.


Yes the Schengen EU 90 day in 180 rule will apply if you are subject to that rule, we aren’t! Once you have date stamped out of the U.K. it’s up to you where you go for the next 90 days, but after that if you haven’t date stamped out via a regulated border crossing back home or into a non Schengen country, you aren’t legal, I don’t know what the infringement penalty might be, but that is for someone else to discover! 

Like I mentioned earlier, if on an extended European tour and you are subject to this rule, it might be worth exiting a few days early into a non Schengen country just in case you need to return home to the U.K. early for some unforeseen circumstance just so that you have legitimate grace to get home!


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## colinm (Jan 3, 2022)

GeoffL said:


> I have a Dutch friend who is a UK resident with a wife who is a UK citizen who wants to spend six months in France with one of their children and the other six months each year with another child in UK. She's worried sick about the Schengen rules and those links strongly suggests her worries are unfounded.


Without going back and double checking, and just from memory of earlier discussions, if you are a close relative of a EU resident you should be able to stay with them for longer than 90/180, but you do need to get the relevant permissions, either through a visa or residence. Also AFAIK a resident of one Schengen country can't just decide to stay for longer than 90 days in another Schengen country without similar permissions, something which seems to have been ignored up to recently, if or how it will be policed is debatable, I'm guessing the rules where made assuming a fixed abode and not someone trundling around in a motorhome.


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## witzend (Jan 4, 2022)

> This may have already been covered
> 
> The new Entry-Exit System (EES), which has been in the works since 2016, will replace the current system of border guards stamping passports.
> 
> Will it work with our current passports?


Now you tell me only last month we paid £10 each to have extra pages in our passports so as to have plenty of room for stamps


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## barryd (Jan 4, 2022)

witzend said:


> As I've posted before 90 day trips OK for us it's just the 90 day period before we can go again that hurts. Has anyone found any thing about a visa yet



I Think there was a thread about it a while back and I remember looking into getting a Visa just for France. It was costly, horrendously complicated and there were no guarantees you would get one.  I think the general consensus was it would be a case of applying to individual countries.  I guess we are just not on anyones radar as it would surely make sense for countries to offer easy access for motorhomers (tourists) for say six months but I cant see it happening.  Only plan I have come up with is to include a month or two in Croatia to extend a summer European trip.


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## Tarmacapache (Jan 4, 2022)

jagmanx said:


> I renewed my uk passport in June.
> Got digital (and real) photos at a booth with a code.
> used this code as part of a fully online process.
> Had to send my old passport.
> ...


Did the same with mine just before crimbo, except I took a selfie in the kitchen, the online process told me if the photo was good enough, excellent service, very impressiv.


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## alcam (Jan 4, 2022)

Fisherman said:


> You can get citizenship if one of your parents were born in Ireland before 2006.
> You are automatically deemed to be Irish born abroad. Over 200,000 unionists in Northern Ireland have applied. Most Catholics in Northern Ireland already had Irish passports. If your grandparents were Irish it’s much more difficult, and cannot be done online.
> Many who voted for the unmentionable are now looking for Irish passports.
> I am considering it, but I don’t think I will.


Are all residents in NI not automatically entitled to Irish passports ?
Dare say many wouldn't have one as a matter of 'principle' . Amazing how often expediency trumps principles


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## GMJ (Jan 4, 2022)

NI is part of the UK. The Republic of Ireland is a separate country.


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## Brockley (Jan 4, 2022)

alcam said:


> Are all residents in NI not automatically entitled to Irish passports ?
> Dare say many wouldn't have one as a matter of 'principle' . Amazing how often expediency trumps principles


I guess that depends upon your point of view, my wife was born in the island of Ireland and is therefore entitled to her Irish passport and yes we decided she should get one specifically so that we can dodge the ‘Schengen shuffle’, principles don’t come into it as far as we’re concerned. It’s irrelevant where exactly she was born geographically in Ireland, so to is her religion. Our kids are also entitled to their Irish passports. I would have been had I applied before 2006. You could say it’s become popular and a bit of a cottage industry (takes about 3 months!), but hey - rules is rules!

For anyone with U.K. passports interested in doing extended trips in Europe, John & Mandy do a fairly comprehensive explanation of the ‘Schengen shuffle’. They’re currently in Turkey waiting out. I’ve been following there 9 month trip with great interest, they are just doing it and getting it right pretty much of the time. Well worth following from the start IMO.


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## Fisherman (Jan 4, 2022)

alcam said:


> Are all residents in NI not automatically entitled to Irish passports ?
> Dare say many wouldn't have one as a matter of 'principle' . Amazing how often expediency trumps principles


Yes if you were born there before April 2005, hence why 200,000 have applied. I know that most catholics living in Northern Ireland held Irish passports,
and it cannot be religious based. If you were born after that date its a bit more complicated and more expensive (700 EUROS).


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## Fisherman (Jan 4, 2022)

GMJ said:


> NI is part of the UK. The Republic of Ireland is a separate country.


Technically they're not, hence why citizens of Northern Ireland can apply for Irish citizenship, and Irish citizens can apply for UK citizenship.
It goes back to the setting up of the six counties, and the Irish free state.
Also the queen is represented by the Governor General in Eire, and technically she is the head of state for Eire.
It's very complicated, hence why Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, but part of the UK.
To some extent this was agreed due to the fact that Fermanagh and Tyrone were majority Catholic counties yet were integrated within Northern Ireland, to make it a viable state.
To this day Ulster is made up of nine counties, six in the UK and three in Eire.

Right off for a coffee now.


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## GMJ (Jan 4, 2022)

It is complicated I agree and yes residents of the island can apply for an Irish passport...






						Citizenship - Department of Foreign Affairs
					

Applications and questions about Irish citizenship are dealt with by the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service (INIS). We deal with Foreign Births Registration only.



					www.dfa.ie
				




That's something new I have learned today.


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## Debroos (Jan 4, 2022)

Fisherman said:


> Technically they're not, hence why citizens of Northern Ireland can apply for Irish citizenship, and Irish citizens can apply for UK citizenship.
> It goes back to the setting up of the six counties, and the Irish free state.
> Also the queen is represented by the Governor General in Eire, and technically she is the head of state for Eire.
> It's very complicated, hence why Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain, but part of the UK.
> ...


I thought our monarchy stopped being head of State in Eire in 1949 when it finally became a republic.


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## TJBi (Jan 4, 2022)

colinm said:


> That would be here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see nothing there to indicate that more than 90 days in any country would be an issue.


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## Brockley (Jan 4, 2022)

TJBi said:


> I see nothing there to indicate that more than 90 days in any country would be an issue.


I think you need to do a little more research? Try this link, if it doesn’t work I’ll get back. EuropeDirectContactCentre@edcc.ec.europa.eu


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## Brockley (Jan 4, 2022)

They are very good to respond.


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## Fisherman (Jan 4, 2022)

Debroos said:


> I thought our monarchy stopped being head of State in Eire in 1949 when it finally became a republic.


To all intents and purpose the British monarchs have never been head of state for the Irish Free State, or Eire even between 1922 to 1949. But the 1948 Republic of Ireland act was the product of Fianna Fáil and their leader Eamon de Valera. It was constituted by them in breech of the 1921 act without agreement with the British, who removed Ireland from the British commonwealth for forming a republic. This is really pedantic, but technically as there was never agreement on formation of the Irish republic, and removal of the British monarch, it can be and is argued that the British monarch is head of state. But we are being really pedantic here. Irish history particularly after 1922 is very complicated. But speaking pragmatically, yes in my opinion what you say is correct, but some will beg to differ.


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## Debroos (Jan 4, 2022)

Fisherman said:


> To all intents and purpose the British monarchs have never been head of state for the Irish Free State, or Eire even between 1922 to 1949. But the 1948 Republic of Ireland act was the product of Fianna Fáil and their leader Eamon de Valera. It was constituted by them in breech of the 1921 act without agreement with the British, who removed Ireland from the British commonwealth for forming a republic. This is really pedantic, but technically as there was never agreement on formation of the Irish republic, and removal of the British monarch, it can be and is argued that the British monarch is head of state. But we are being really pedantic here. Irish history particularly after 1922 is very complicated. But speaking pragmatically, yes in my opinion what you say is correct, but some will beg to differ.


I do find Irish history, both modern and ancient, really fascinating. Trouble is, it's so complicated that I can't remember it and have to read it all over again!
Mind you that's true for everything. 
What was it you were saying?


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## Fisherman (Jan 4, 2022)

Debroos said:


> I do find Irish history, both modern and ancient, really fascinating. Trouble is, it's so complicated that I can't remember it and have to read it all over again!
> Mind you that's true for everything.
> What was it you were saying?


Bottom line, some say the British monarchs were never head of state from 1922- 49, some say they were till 1949, and some wrongly in my opinion say that the queen is head of state. But although technically they have a point, it’s preposterous, and even insulting to the people of the Irish Republic in my honest opinion. But nothing involving Ireland is clear cut, as we are seeing with shambles after brexit.


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## TJBi (Jan 5, 2022)

Brockley said:


> I think you need to do a little more research? Try this link, if it doesn’t work I’ll get back. EuropeDirectContactCentre@edcc.ec.europa.eu


I don't need to do more research, as I'm no longer the spouse of an EU citizen (She died 5 years ago).


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## Brockley (Jan 6, 2022)

TJBi said:


> I don't need to do more research, as I'm no longer the spouse of an EU citizen (She died 5 years ago).


I am sorry to hear that.


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## Brockley (Mar 3, 2022)

Well two weeks and counting til starting a six month Europe trip and guess what? I’ve been reading conflicting views about freedom of movement while travelling with an EU spouse so I decided to get some definitive guidance from the Europe Direct Contact Centre. Worry over? Watch this space.


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## barryd (Mar 3, 2022)

Are there any unmarried Irish women on this forum?  Ideally between the ages of 18 and 25. Asking for a friend.


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## Robmac (Mar 3, 2022)

barryd said:


> Are there any unmarried Irish women on this forum?  *Ideally between the IQ of 18 and 25.* Asking for a friend.



Corrected that for you Barry.


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## barryd (Mar 3, 2022)

Robmac said:


> Corrected that for you Barry.



Ideally both Rob..... My friend says.


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## mark61 (Mar 3, 2022)

barryd said:


> Ideally both Rob..... My friend says.


Yeah, I go for the smart ones too.


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