# Grrr ... I've been scammed



## GeoffL (Aug 6, 2020)

I'm posting here to alert others:

I recently saw several posts on FaceBook advertising camping chairs. Although the chairs were the same (see piccy), there were a few sellers. Our old chairs are just about worn out and these have canopies that can be folded away when not in use and which also double as a storage bag. I've seen similar chairs without the canopy for about a tenner and so £15+ each seemed reasonable i.e. not too cheap to be too good to be true. However, when the package arrived, it contained just two bags that might have been suitable to store a child's chair. Carrying out a search on the seller turned up this page, which shows that several others have been similarly caught out and suggests that the seller never intended to supply what I paid for. Hopefully, I can get a refund from PayPal but a salutory lesson learned -- always check thoroughly before buying online! ....


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## SquirrellCook (Aug 6, 2020)

Sorry you've been had, but my policy is that FB is for fun and nothing is real.


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## Nabsim (Aug 6, 2020)

SquirrellCook said:


> Sorry you've been had, but my policy is that FB is for fun and nothing is real.


I sold a good few bits on Facebook marketplace when clearing out the house. I thought it much better than eBay (I always cock up on there) as no fees involved. I haven’t bought though but guess it’s always buyer beware. Okay for local stuff where you can go and see before handing over cash maybe?


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## GeoffL (Aug 6, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> I sold a good few bits on Facebook marketplace when clearing out the house. I thought it much better than eBay (I always cock up on there) as no fees involved. I haven’t bought though but guess it’s always buyer beware. Okay for local stuff where you can go and see before handing over cash maybe?


I too have sold a few bits on FaceBook Marketplace and also bought one or two items -- the most valuable being our current car! However, the posts in this case are adverts that you can click through to access customer questions and comments, which gave the seller an apperearance of being genuine. My guess is that it was all fabricated to draw people in.


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## Nabsim (Aug 6, 2020)

GeoffL said:


> I too have sold a few bits on FaceBook Marketplace and also bought one or two items -- the most valuable being our current car! However, the posts in this case are adverts that you can click through to access customer questions and comments, which gave the seller an apperearance of being genuine. My guess is that it was all fabricated to draw people in.


Ah funny you should say that. I did the same on some reading glasses in one of those adverts. They showed to work like varifocals and I had broken mine. Thought £24.99 including 3 day postage was worth a gamble. That was 2nd June and PayPal still not coughed up yet. Hope you do better than me


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## Snapster (Aug 6, 2020)

My daughter is moving house and uses FB and has been selling furniture and other stuff and bought a couple of other items, but all transactions were face to face and involved cash. She would never use it to buy or sell things remotely, as you have found out, too many dishonest people about.


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## SimonM (Aug 6, 2020)

That’s why it’s called FaecesBook - it’s full of sh!t.


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## mariesnowgoose (Aug 6, 2020)

SimonM said:


> That’s why it’s called FaecesBook - it’s full of sh!t.



I've long called it *rseBook


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## madtheswine99 (Aug 6, 2020)

I dont use FB marketplace, but gumtree and have just sold 3 of those camping chairs. I know what you mean about false advertising. I knew a bloke years ago who was scamming people with PlayStation. His ad read Brand New PlayStation  box, and then described everything that should be in the box, silly people fell for it and paid several hundred pounds only to receive a brand new box. Nothing illegal really, just read the whole ad including any small print.


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## n brown (Aug 6, 2020)

Pay Pal . i sold a van window on ebay for 30 quid , guy paid by paypal and collected it . then he got in touch with paypal and said he hadn't authorised the payment . they reimbursed him and charged ME 35 quid . no more paypal for me


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## iandsm (Aug 6, 2020)

£15 for a folding chair with a canopy is too cheap to be true by about £60 or more but sorry you have had a bad experience.


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## GeoffL (Aug 6, 2020)

iandsm said:


> £15 for a folding chair with a canopy is too cheap to be true by about £60 or more but sorry you have had a bad experience.


For the quality those chairs look to be, £15 is cheap, but not too cheap to be true. These on Amazon are £12 without a canopy including delivery  and I've seen similar in motorway service stations for a tenner. £75 would be a suitable price for something in a completely different league!

Anyway, story so far is that I'm waiting for PayPal to respond. After @madtheswine99's post, I checked the vendor's website to find the advert has changed. When I ordered the chairs, there were two options: blue or black colour. These have been replaced by one for a "Covered high grade portable folding lawn bag with canopy" and "Covered high grade portable folding lawn chair". When you click the second option, the price shoots up to over £225! They never sent me an email acknowledgement of my order -- just a text. However, PayPal did and that receipt describes the item as, "Premium Portable Camping Folding Lawn Chairs with Canopy - COVERED HIGH-GRADE PORTABLE CAMPING FOLDING LAWN BAG WITH CANOPY". Whether the item described is a chair or a 'lawn bag with canopy', it clearly isn't what I received -- and that forms the basis for any hope I have of getting a refund.


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## iandsm (Aug 6, 2020)

GeoffL said:


> For the quality those chairs look to be, £15 is cheap, but not too cheap to be true. These on Amazon are £12 without a canopy including delivery  and I've seen similar in motorway service stations for a tenner. £75 would be a suitable price for something in a completely different league!
> 
> Anyway, story so far is that I'm waiting for PayPal to respond. After @madtheswine99's post, I checked the vendor's website to find the advert has changed. When I ordered the chairs, there were two options: blue or black colour. These have been replaced by one for a "Covered high grade portable folding lawn bag with canopy" and "Covered high grade portable folding lawn chair". When you click the second option, the price shoots up to over £225! They never sent me an email acknowledgement of my order -- just a text. However, PayPal did and that receipt describes the item as, "Premium Portable Camping Folding Lawn Chairs with Canopy - COVERED HIGH-GRADE PORTABLE CAMPING FOLDING LAWN BAG WITH CANOPY". Whether the item described is a chair or a 'lawn bag with canopy', it clearly isn't what I received -- and that forms the basis for any hope I have of getting a refund.



I am sure you will get you money back. PayPal have a reputation to look after. Might take a few days though


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## iandsm (Aug 6, 2020)




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## iandsm (Aug 6, 2020)

iandsm said:


> View attachment 85084


Are these similar. Did the scammer use a a photo of these?


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## GeoffL (Aug 6, 2020)

iandsm said:


> Are these similar. Did the scammer use a a photo of these?


FWIW, I attached a photo in my OP, but here it is again for convenience:


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## iandsm (Aug 6, 2020)

Yes not the same. Good luck anyway with Payal


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## REC (Aug 6, 2020)

Coincidently, I was looking at the same/similar advert. But I noticed the ad showed a red chair which looked much stronger than the ones in later picture. I resisted the temptation to buy, luckily. Hope you get a refund.


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## mfw (Aug 7, 2020)

Had that chair style before from £7 upwards and i always find the material tears fairly quickly - i weigh 80 kg - i would not waste my money on that type of chair now - mountain warehouse has a few styles of camping chair not the cheapest but they have reasonable selection - even better priced if you can find an additional discount code


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## antiquesam (Aug 7, 2020)

I've got similar chairs without the canopy bought from Aldi at different times for about £12 I think. We've had them a few years now but lost one by leaving folded under the van one night and it got eaten by rats or something.


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## shortcircuit (Aug 7, 2020)

Like some I dismissed FB as trivia.  Having researched it, it is an absolute mine of info.  I am a member of numerous groups, Autocruse MH, RC Models, Taranis RC transmitters, DIY Campervans and I get and give assistance very readily.  Please do not dismiss off hand.  Saying that, I would not purchase off Marketplace unless a face to face deal.


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## madtheswine99 (Aug 7, 2020)

I have just bought these two chairs on E Bay for £64.99 really good value. They were advertised with a side tray for each chair, however when they arrived they were not in the box. When queried they replied that they don't come with trays. I pointed out the item description and he has since changed the listing, this is the problem with "copy and paste". I didn't push the matter as I think the chairs are good value, he has since increased the price to £69.99.


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## GeoffL (Aug 8, 2020)

trustmetours said:


> Saw this exact thing on Instagram and bought them with the exact same outcome but sadly not using PayPal. Have emailed the retailer twice with no response so will be contacting my Credit Card company for help with this fraud.


I recognise those bags -- I have two of the same. Did they send you an email order acknowledgement or just SMS? If, like me, they didn't send an email and the SMS order confirmation doesn't describe the item, they will probably try (and might be able) to convince your credit card company that you only purchased a bag as the website from which I ordered mine has now changed. Originally the two options on the product page were for black or blue colour. This has changed to a bag for £15+ or a chair for £227+. FWIW, I suspect that's why delivery took about a month -- so that they could take as many orders as possible during that time before switching the product page to be able to claim we only bought bags.

If the Instagram link took you to irrperb.com, the following might help: The email that PayPal sent me to confirm the transaction describes the 'chairs' as, "_Premium Portable Camping Folding Lawn Chairs with Canopy - COVERED HIGH-GRADE PORTABLE CAMPING FOLDING LAWN BAG WITH CANOPY_", and so could be used as evidence of their item description. No matter whether that description is interpreted as a"Lawn Chair with Canopy" or a "Lawn Bag with Canopy", the bags we have don't have canopies and hence are not what we ordered -- even by the fraudster's rules! BTW, If you haven't got their email address, PayPal gave this as Official@zhixintrade.com.

HTH & good luck!


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## GeoffL (Aug 8, 2020)

trustmetours said:


> Fortunately they sent me this email which I think shows what they said they would deliver as opposed to what they actually delivered and I will be contacting my credit card company on Monday to see what they can do to help.


Looks like they've changed their trading name. FWIW, "amicoud" doesn't feature in the multitude of known aliases. However, amicoud.com was created on 20th June 2020 and nslookup shows that both amicoud and irrperb share the same IP address (23.227.38.65) -- the same IP address is a strong indicator that both our fraudsters are the same entity. Before you contact the credit card company, it might be an idea to talk to Citizens Advice Bureau to check whether the 2015 consumer protection legislation that makes them the joint supplier applies to purchases from outside the EU and also whether there is a minimum value before the card company is liable and, if so, what that value is.


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## GeoffL (Aug 21, 2020)

Latest on my battle with the scammers: I opened a dispute on PayPal and they escaled this to a claim. After over a week of them asking the same thing over and over again,  they eventually contacted the seller, who (as expected) claimed that I'd ordered two bags and not two chairs. I pointed out to PayPal that the description on their receipt might be taken as "lawn chair with canopy" or "lawn bag with canopy" and that the bags supplied did not have canopies and so what they sent matched neither description. They then asked for a photo. As I was on a campsite at the time, I sent them a copy of your photo, told them mine were identical and that I'd send them a photo when I got back home. I tried to do that this morning only to find they'd closed the converation! I've sent another message referring to the original claim and attaching photos with a tape measure for scale. I guess I'll have to contact my credit card company, who I suspect will find some way to wheedle out of paying up!


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## wildebus (Aug 21, 2020)

There is something that does not seem to be mentioned...

There is a law called the *Consumer Contracts Regulations* that allow you to return these type of goods from a business seller remotely for ANY REASON within 14 days (and someone selling a whole bunch of these will have to adhere to this).
You don't have to prove they are not as described or the like, you just tell the seller you are returning the item.
being not as described is better as they have to cover the postage but end of the day, having to pay for postage will be better than having to suck up 100% of the cost for rubbish.


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## vindiboy (Aug 21, 2020)

During lock down we have  been having a sort out at home and sold loads of stuff on F B Market place £1.300 taken to date with no charges all very easy a few numpties but they are everywhere cheapest item sold was £3, dearest was my Honda Gennie £350 so a good price range. So I am a fan of F B just ignore the crap and you are OK


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## Red Dwarf (Aug 21, 2020)

When using PayPal.... if you have some funds in your PayPal account, you’ll get immediate customer support.


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## wildebus (Aug 21, 2020)

I've mentioned this before, but ... if you get an invitation to join the eBay 'concierge' program, do it!  If you have any problems with a seller  (or a buyer when you are selling things), then you get access to special customer service team, who are very good and will deal with everything to its conclusion.
You also are able to return things for any reason (as I mentioned as part of the Consumer Contracts Regulations) but with the concierge program, eBay pay for any return costs  (you pay the charge initially, and they refund you a few days later).


I have some sales via my Facebook business page but don't think I have used Facebook Marketplace to sell anything and as fas as my business sales go I don't think I ever would as there are too many muppets there who don't actually understand what they are buying - and blame the seller not their own ineptitiude as a result.  So mainly stick to eBay or my own on-line shop for selling stuff.  
Sales via Social Media (Forums, Facebook, etc) only after discussion so the buyer understands what they are buying.


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## vindiboy (Aug 21, 2020)

wildebus said:


> I've mentioned this before, but ... if you get an invitation to join the eBay 'concierge' program, do it!  If you have any problems with a seller  (or a buyer when you are selling things), then you get access to special customer service team, who are very good and will deal with everything to its conclusion.
> You also are able to return things for any reason (as I mentioned as part of the Consumer Contracts Regulations) but with the concierge program, eBay pay for any return costs  (you pay the charge initially, and they refund you a few days later).
> 
> 
> ...


WELL I advertised all our stuff collection only and have no pay pal  so all I sold was cash on collection, the buyer could see exactly what they were getting so no problems with anything I sold, I do not like the concept of pay pal as someone else can give refunds of money paid to me and I would have to just lump it or that is my take on things I buy on E Bay using a debit card but never sell on there because as I said no Pay Pal so that is why I use FB  and sell localy  cuts down on customer range but then I do not care if I sell or not as just down sizing stuff. Having said that I did get emails from folk  far away asking me to post items and bank transfer etc. but I declined that  everything sold eventually too.


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## GeoffL (Aug 21, 2020)

wildebus said:


> There is something that does not seem to be mentioned...
> 
> There is a law called the *Consumer Contracts Regulations* that allow you to return these type of goods from a business seller remotely for ANY REASON within 14 days (and someone selling a whole bunch of these will have to adhere to this).
> You don't have to prove they are not as described or the like, you just tell the seller you are returning the item.
> being not as described is better as they have to cover the postage but end of the day, having to pay for postage will be better than having to suck up 100% of the cost for rubbish.


Unfortunately, Chinese sellers and American money transfer companies aren't usually bound by UK law!


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## wildebus (Aug 21, 2020)

GeoffL said:


> Unfortunately, Chinese sellers and American money transfer companies aren't usually bound by UK law!


You bought on ebay.co.uk?  They are selling in the UK.  they follow UK law!

If you buy from abroad, you take your chances!

Buyer Beware!


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## GeoffL (Aug 21, 2020)

wildebus said:


> You bought on ebay.co.uk?  They are selling in the UK.  they follow UK law!
> 
> If you buy from abroad, you take your chances!
> 
> Buyer Beware!


That's the thing. I followed a link on FaceBook to the seller's website. It didn't become apparent that they were Chinese until after I'd bought the product. I suspect this will be a hard lesson learned


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## GeoffL (Aug 26, 2020)

Latest on my case:- As PayPal had closed the conversation (and hence also the case, I assume) they restarted the claim procedure and contacted the seller again and sent me a messages stating they had until yesterday to respond. Each day, I ensured I attached a new message to the case thread to keep the conversation open. However, when I checked today PayPal have once again prematurely closed the conversation and so I had to start a new one, again citing the case ID and pointing out that the seller had not responded and so they should have found in my favour and reimbursed my card. Unfortunately, I suspect that PayPal will just start the claim all over again...


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## mariesnowgoose (Aug 26, 2020)

trustmetours said:


> PayPal are still ‘considering’ my claim. They say it usually takes 5 days but we are approaching 10 now.



Let me guess - all the fault of C-19?


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## GeoffL (Aug 26, 2020)

On investigation it seems this scammer has been operating the same scam through loads of websites and so it could cost PayPal tens of thousands of pounds to honour their protection promises.


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## mikejay (Aug 26, 2020)

Seen quite a few similar posts on facebook along with some kind of bucket washing machine and you just get sent 2 curtain rings.

Mike


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## vindiboy (Aug 26, 2020)

I bought 2 replacement door mirror assemblies on e Bay last year fitted them both and within 2 months the rubber coverings on the long arms began to perish and fall to pieces I complained to E Bay and within days received a full refund of money paid, the mirrors are still fitted to my van and have no rubber coverings on the arms, I was never asked to return the mirror assemblies, so someone is out of pocket, this is the reason that I would never have pay pal, incidentally the mirror assemblies were manufactured in Poland.


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## trevskoda (Aug 26, 2020)

vindiboy said:


> I bought 2 replacement door mirror assemblies on e Bay last year fitted them both and within 2 months the rubber coverings on the long arms began to perish and fall to pieces I complained to E Bay and within days received a full refund of money paid, the mirrors are still fitted to my van and have no rubber coverings on the arms, I was never asked to return the mirror assemblies, so someone is out of pocket, this is the reason that I would never have pay pal, incidentally the mirror assemblies were manufactured in Poland.


How would you trade long distance and get paid.


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## GeoffL (Aug 26, 2020)

Just heard from PayPal -- they want me to spend even more money to return the bags to the seller, which I must apparently do at my expense since PayPal won't refund the return cost but the seller has "promised to refund me directly for postage costs up to £15"   I wrote back noting that this is a known scam and so I would have little to no chance of recovering shipping costs. I advised them that the goods were not what I ordered, therefore unsolicited, and thus considered gifts under UK law. However, as a gesture of goodwill I am content for the seller to collect at their expense and will retain the bags for thirty days to facilitate this, after which I will dispose of them as I see fit. In any case, I expect full reimbursement from PayPal. I'll have to see what they say; but I guess next stop is the credit card company!


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## GeoffL (Aug 27, 2020)

PayPal refuse to budge and say I must pay £15 to return the bags via their system. I've just checked and there are still apparently identical websites selling these chairs, all from domains created since April 2020 and all using PayPal. I've provided PayPal with adequate evidence of the scam for them to at least suspend the seller's account but they're still providing their services to the scammer. Also, there are messages on the PayPal community forum complaining of being scammed by the Zixhin Trading Co Ltd. (the scammers behind this). From that, I can only conclude that PayPal is well aware of the scam and hence is complicit in it. I've removed all funding sources from my PayPal account, I'll close it in a couple of days and will never use PayPal again. In the meantime, my credit card company says I can enter a 'Mastercard' dispute against PayPal, but they think it'll be unsuccessful as PayPal are 'offering a means of resolution'. I guess I need to chalk it down to experience...


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## GeoffL (Aug 27, 2020)

trustmetours said:


> This is not looking good for my claim


If you managed to pay directly with a credit card you should be in a better position than me. The law says that the credit card company is joint vendor and severably liable (although I'm not completely sure if that applies to stuff bought mail order from overseas). The reasons why I'm stuffed are that I paid for the goods by PayPal and so did not pay for them directly with my credit card; and PayPal have offered an (albeit impractical) means of resolution. Having now learned that PayPal's protection promises aren't worth a penny (as scammers have weaponised PayPal's T&Cs against their victims) and that protection against fraud is stronger if you pay directly by credit card, I've now closed my PayPal account and won't use them again.


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## mfw (Aug 28, 2020)

I'd post them back at least you will get half the original cost back - trouble is ebay is an excellent place for con artists to make money - personally i prefer amazon to buy from


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## GeoffL (Aug 28, 2020)

mfw said:


> I'd post them back at least you will get half the original cost back - trouble is ebay is an excellent place for con artists to make money - personally i prefer amazon to buy from


There are several reports on the 'net of people who've done that and the scammers then claim they didn't receive the item, or the goods were received back in an unsellable condition (my guess is they have some trashed on hand for this purpose), or (and you have to admire the brass neck) that what you sent back was not what they sent you. In all cases, PayPal seem to have sided with the scammers -- so you wouldn't get your money back and you'd be out of pocket a further £15.


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## trevskoda (Aug 28, 2020)

mfw said:


> I'd post them back at least you will get half the original cost back - trouble is ebay is an excellent place for con artists to make money - personally i prefer amazon to buy from


My wife bought stuff for daughter going back so school,bag calculator and pens,flimsy box arrived and only bag in it,other stuff nicked as box opened,ph to amazon and person from distant seas could not understand a word and i pigion english just kept saying please return goods you have not received,took two days to get message home after speaking to top man,then a refund,amazon not that good.


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## trevskoda (Aug 28, 2020)

trustmetours said:


> Many of those conned, myself included didn’t buy from EBay. I bought mine in response to a  video ad on Instagram and looking on google there are many other sites where the same scam is being operated.


All stuff on instagram or vids is scam.


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## GeoffL (Aug 28, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> [...] took two days to get message home after speaking to top man,then a refund,amazon not that good.


FWIW, If you have Amazon Prime, calling them on 0800 279 7234 (took me ages to find that number!) can get quicker response than going through the usual hurdles. Every time I've phoned the agent was able to resolve the issue there and then or instigate action that gave a reasonably swift resolution (e.g. where one item was fulfilled by Amazon, they wrote to the seller on my behalf thus creating an avenue of communication that didn't exist before).


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## Pandaman2020 (Aug 30, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> Ah funny you should say that. I did the same on some reading glasses in one of those adverts. They showed to work like varifocals and I had broken mine. Thought £24.99 including 3 day postage was worth a gamble. That was 2nd June and PayPal still not coughed up yet. Hope you do better than me


Yes I bought these glasses as well, supposed to come from Germany but came from China, can buy better for a £1 in Poundland, customer service laugh at you if you complain so I post lots of shit reviews when I see their adds!


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## Nabsim (Aug 30, 2020)

Pandaman2020 said:


> Yes I bought these glasses as well, supposed to come from Germany but came from China, can buy better for a £1 in Poundland, customer service laugh at you if you complain so I post lots of shit reviews when I see their adds!


I got my money refunded by PayPal then the glasses turned up lol


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## Deg3y (Aug 30, 2020)

wildebus said:


> I've mentioned this before, but ... if you get an invitation to join the eBay 'concierge' program, do it!  If you have any problems with a seller  (or a buyer when you are selling things), then you get access to special customer service team, who are very good and will deal with everything to its conclusion.
> You also are able to return things for any reason (as I mentioned as part of the Consumer Contracts Regulations) but with the concierge program, eBay pay for any return costs  (you pay the charge initially, and they refund you a few days later).
> 
> 
> ...


I often call my Ebay Concierge, helped me out several times about different things...good luck...


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## Pandaman2020 (Aug 31, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> I got my money refunded by PayPal then the glasses turned up lol


Were they any good mine were 3.5 based on my age not 2.5 which I need and were not as described, I will try the PayPal refund route because their customer service are taking the piss


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## Nabsim (Aug 31, 2020)

Pandaman2020 said:


> Were they any good mine were 3.5 based on my age not 2.5 which I need and were not as described, I will try the PayPal refund route because their customer service are taking the piss


They didn’t even send mine out until after I requested a refund. They do work to en extent yes, I wear a varifocals and they weren’t the same but much better than when I tried some reading glasses. I just got a new prescription now so not using them


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## trevskoda (Aug 31, 2020)

Im going for co-op milk bottle ends.


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