# Would you buy a Cat D motorhome?



## Teutone (Jun 18, 2014)

We are looking at a Motorhome which is Cat D for hail damage to the roof.
According to the seller, the dimples are hardly visible and NO repairs have been carried out.

I am at a loss, how can one claim if there is no repair? Sure there must have been a pay out to the PO to enable the insurer to write it off.

And how much must the bill have been to write a 2008 Hymer off with just a few dimples on the roof?

Personally I am not bothered about Cat D or not, just don't want to have the insurers making me running around every year at renewal time.
Also resell value doens't concern me. You buy cheap, you sell cheap.

Another question, is there a "glass giude" for motorhomes? How can I look up the normal value of a Motorhome to compare what the Cat D should be?

Thanks for your input.


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## snowbirds (Jun 18, 2014)

Hi Teutone,

I would there have been some nice ones on Ebay and the look good value for money.I think maybe the owner of the hymer got a fair payout on it and will just upgrade to a better one.While we were in Andorra a couple of years ago we saw some caravans on a site that had very bad damage to the roofs from hale,it looked like it had been hit by hundreds of golf balls but still being used.

Snowbirds.





Teutone said:


> We are looking at a Motorhome which is Cat D for hail damage to the roof.
> According to the seller, the dimples are hardly visible and NO repairs have been carried out.
> 
> I am at a loss, how can one claim if there is no repair? Sure there must have been a pay out to the PO to enable the insurer to write it off.
> ...


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## Teutone (Jun 18, 2014)

snowbirds said:


> Hi Teutone,
> 
> I would there have been some nice ones on Ebay and the look good value for money.I think maybe the owner of the hymer got a fair payout on it and will just upgrade to a better one.While we were in Andorra a couple of years ago we saw some caravans on a site that had very bad damage to the roofs from hale,it looked like it had been hit by hundreds of golf balls but still being used.
> 
> Snowbirds.



Thanks for chiming in. I am not too worried about some dents and dimples on the roof. My question is, at what price is it good value?
You know what it's like, somebody crashes into to you and they write it off for pennies because it's Cat D. I just don't want to pay over the odds
and get stung afterwards.

I also noticed that there are still brackets on the side of the Motorhome for the wind out awing stays but NO awing is fitted. That makes me suspicious.
There must be holes if the awing has been taken off? Or the roof section has been repaired in which case I am not too happy to buy it.


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## antiqueman (Jun 18, 2014)

*eyes*



Teutone said:


> Thanks for chiming in. I am not too worried about some dents and dimples on the roof. My question is, at what price is it good value?
> You know what it's like, somebody crashes into to you and they write it off for pennies because it's Cat D. I just don't want to pay over the odds
> and get stung afterwards.
> 
> ...



Maybe it needs a good coat of looking at.


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## frontslide (Jun 18, 2014)

antiqueman said:


> Maybe it needs a good coat of looking at.


As above find out what equivalent spec and year vans are actually selling for then go and have a good look. Taking someone with you who will just look for the bad bits is a good idea


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## kenspain (Jun 18, 2014)

A friend of mine in Spain brought one with hellstone damage to the roof and got a new liner put on the roof and sealed never had any problems with it but you must have a good look at it before you part with any money. i think he paid about 2,000 to get the work done.:wave:


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## Teutone (Jun 18, 2014)

frontslide said:


> As above find out what equivalent spec and year vans are actually selling for then go and have a good look. Taking someone with you who will just look for the bad bits is a good idea



That's where the problem is, Vans advertised for a price and vans actually SELLING is a very different story. You can't see what they are actually sold for.
Looking at some prices for 2002 Hymers, I can't imagine they sell for £29k!


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## DumnoniiNomad (Jun 18, 2014)

Whatever the price, it's a big investment. IMHO if in doubt, don't do it.


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## mark61 (Jun 18, 2014)

Going by the quote Carol got for a new roof, I can easily see a 2008 Hymer being twice that. 

Start at scrap value and work up, many would not buy a cat D, so I can't see that many offers going in.


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## vwalan (Jun 18, 2014)

easiest way is take an average selling price . 
is the cat d at half that price . if not walk away. 
having done loads of salvage . you normally will never get anything like a real value . but can get a cheap vehicle to run around in . 
had loads . keep then for 3-4 years then the drop in price isnt so noticable . 
plus people see it on the road and dont mind buying it .


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## Teutone (Jun 18, 2014)

vwalan said:


> easiest way is take an average selling price .
> is the cat d at half that price . if not walk away.
> having done loads of salvage . you normally will never get anything like a real value . but can get a cheap vehicle to run around in .
> had loads . keep then for 3-4 years then the drop in price isnt so noticable .
> plus people see it on the road and dont mind buying it .



Exactly my thoughts. Not sure how the seller will react to my offer , LOL.

Good a reply about the missing awing "awing was removed and the holes repaired and painted"
Sounds fishy to me.


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## vwalan (Jun 18, 2014)

just gotta be cheap. awnings are a pain in my book. 
had them wouldnt entertain one anymore . 
but if its cheap and low mileage can be ok. 
bought a few cars for my lads repaired them . at a fraction of their normal value . saves repairing old worn out crap.


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## inaction man (Jun 18, 2014)

Does the seller have all the paperwork relating to the insurance claim? If not why not. Without evidence of the claim you only have his word. 
It would be common sense for the seller to offer this information to put potential buyers minds at rest.
What if he is lying, van might of had accident damage.


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## QFour (Jun 18, 2014)

Bought a Hymer Caravan years ago that had been in a hail storm. Did even more damage to it when we got hit by a car. It was all repaired apart from the dimples in the roof. Insurance wanted pictures of roof when we bought it. Saved ourselves £2000 in comparison with same not damaged. When we sold it the guy who bought it couldn't careless about the roof pox .. He climbed up had a walk round. Got down paid in cash and drove away with it

..


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## Teutone (Jun 18, 2014)

User1 said:


> Bought a Hymer Caravan years ago that had been in a hail storm. Did even more damage to it when we got hit by a car. It was all repaired apart from the dimples in the roof. Insurance wanted pictures of roof when we bought it. Saved ourselves £2000 in comparison with same not damaged. When we sold it the guy who bought it couldn't careless about the roof pox .. He climbed up had a walk round. Got down paid in cash and drove away with it
> 
> ..



was your Cat D? I can't care less about the dimples either but don't fancy fighting with insurance every year.
To be honest, I don't even want a immaculate Motorhome. They get damaged so easy and loose value.
Don't want to be paranoid everytime we go on a trip, would rather enjoy life and don't get upset about the odd dink and dent on the way. Doesn't mean I won't look after my Motorhome.


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## Teutone (Jun 18, 2014)

good point, I will look out for this. Best thing will be to inspect the vehicle in the flesh. But it's a 2007 model, could they already be fully bonded?

Pricewise I think it's about 3-5k under what comparable others are advertised for.


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## Teutone (Jun 19, 2014)

Teutone said:


> good point, I will look out for this. Best thing will be to inspect the vehicle in the flesh. But it's a 2007 model, could they already be fully bonded?
> 
> Pricewise I think it's about 3-5k under what comparable others are advertised for.



it's a small world. just found this.......(now up for sale at 35k)
http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums...ght-hailstone-damaged-hymer-sale-auction.html


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## Martin P (Jun 19, 2014)

I looked at at a cat d van for work once , when I checked with my insurance co (direct line ) they said they would not insure it, I suggest you talk to your insurance co before you buy it


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## Deleted member 775 (Jun 19, 2014)

yes i looked at a cat d damaged car and had some difficulty getting it insured .mabey a word first with your insurance company see how they stand regarding wright offs ,you also need to discus with someone about getting the vehicle removed from the register or at least a certificate on the repair or lack of it   ,vic check  if possible with vosa.if all checks out you should be ok .but always remember in case of another claim your insurance company may make a realy low offer ,as the van has been declared a total loss before. so unless its really cheap i would leave it alone.


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## jenks (Jun 19, 2014)

mandrake said:


> yes i looked at a cat d damaged car and had some difficulty getting it insured .mabey a word first with your insurance company see how they stand regarding wright offs ,you also need to discus with someone about getting the vehicle removed from the register or at least a certificate on the repair or lack of it   ,vic check  if possible with vosa.if all checks out you should be ok .but always remember in case of another claim your insurance company may make a realy low offer ,as the van has been declared a total loss before. so unless its really cheap i would leave it alone.



Cat D only legally requires an MOT to go back on the road, insurers might ask for photos of repair work or they might even send a structural inspector out, but mostly they just charge a little more for it! Which I personally think is a crime in it's own right! I buy and sell cars and often Cat D's. The reason for Cat D can be stupid, latest I did was a matiz, CAT D because the radiator had split after a very light front ender, no other damage not even to plastic bumper etc and to be fair looking at the state of the rad it was a cheap aftermarket one which had rusted.... so the new owner will pay slightly more for insurance as HPi shows cat D. I guess the attraction to Cat D is the lower cost when they buy it.

I have no issues in buying Cat D's abd my insurance don't seem to care but I do have a traders policy.


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## frontslide (Jun 19, 2014)

There are plenty of vehicles around that will have been repaired, good or bad, that wont even be on the insurance register


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## vwalan (Jun 19, 2014)

i still have body straightening equipment here and do occasionally help friends straighten there kids cars etc 
just about all will never be on the register as there is no claim . put the car on the jig pull it this way and that . get it back in line . its amazing how crumpled metal does come back to its right shape . mind ten ton pulling it it as no chance . 
fit new wings etc . only the body shop workers would ever know . 
look for marks on the sills where a car as been clamped on the jig . 
but if its on the register the price is noticeably different . 
one of my lads first cars was a skoda estelle f reg only 13000 miles and two years old . new wings front panel and bumper(second hand came with the car) a day on the jig . what 17 yr old wouldnt want it . yes some laughed but it was a great car. got it from a local salvage yard at the time for 100 quid and do a head gasket on their golf caddy. 
 served him well for years .


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## Teutone (Jun 23, 2014)

my current insurer won't insure a Cat D. As tempting as it might be, decided to stay clear of it.
Even if I could buy it for a Cat D value, it's still a big chunk of money to invest.

Don't think the current seller will lower the price to a reasonable level, they all wait for that one fool to make them rich.

The whole thing just doesn't sound right "Cat D due some MINOR hail stone damage" How can a £40k Motorhome written off with "minor" damage?


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## Topher (Jun 23, 2014)

Teutone said:


> The whole thing just doesn't sound right "Cat D due some MINOR hail stone damage" How can a £40k Motorhome written off with "minor" damage?



I agree it doesn't sound right. If in doubt walk away.


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## Teutone (Jun 23, 2014)

Topher said:


> I agree it doesn't sound right. If in doubt walk away.



I am tempted to go and have look but it's a 300mile round trip


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## jenks (Jun 23, 2014)

Teutone said:


> my current insurer won't insure a Cat D. As tempting as it might be, decided to stay clear of it.
> Even if I could buy it for a Cat D value, it's still a big chunk of money to invest.
> 
> Don't think the current seller will lower the price to a reasonable level, they all wait for that one fool to make them rich.
> ...



The time and cost of repair remove the broken roof panel and get new ones fitted means it's not worth while for the insurance company so they write it off and make a pay out. Don't forget most insurance promises manufacturer approved parts... in the case of a motorhome roof that's a special order from the main manufacturer (even though it's probably just a roll of ali  ) - minus the excess (which could be thousands on something like that). They don't waste money and the owner gets a lump sum to go and by something else.... in this case looks like they got their lump sum and bought back the motorhome from insurance too, hoping to sell it on to raise more cash towards their replacement.

If it's Cat D insurers will always charge more, in some cases the little bit more per years offsets against the cheaper purchase price, in others it just rapes your wallet


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## frontslide (Jun 23, 2014)

Teutone said:


> my current insurer won't insure a Cat D. As tempting as it might be, decided to stay clear of it.
> Even if I could buy it for a Cat D value, it's still a big chunk of money to invest.
> 
> Don't think the current seller will lower the price to a reasonable level, they all wait for that one fool to make them rich.
> ...





Think of Cat D like this example: 

A car is worth £6,000, but sustains some minor cosmetic damage. 

The damage will cost £2,500 for an (inflated price) insurance repair that includes the cost of a courtesy car for the owner while the repair takes place. 

But the insurer can sell the car off as it is for £4,000. 

So the insurer 'writes it off' as a Cat D, saving itself £500, even though the car may be perfectly drivable and suffers only cosmetic damage.

Alternatively, a car worth £10,000 is in a crash which is not the owner's fault and sustains some repairable damage. 

The damage will cost £2,500 to repair. But the owner gets involvbed with an accident management company and it put into a credit hire car at a daily rate of £250 until his car is repaired.

There is a dealy in obtaining some of the parts to repair the car, escalating the period it will be under preppair and the period the driver is in the £250 a day credit hire car.

So the insurer writes the car off as a Cat D (repairable) and settles.


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## trevskoda (Jun 23, 2014)

vwalan said:


> i still have body straightening equipment here and do occasionally help friends straighten there kids cars etc
> just about all will never be on the register as there is no claim . put the car on the jig pull it this way and that . get it back in line . its amazing how crumpled metal does come back to its right shape . mind ten ton pulling it it as no chance .
> fit new wings etc . only the body shop workers would ever know .
> look for marks on the sills where a car as been clamped on the jig .
> ...



best cars ever built i still have 5 of them.


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## vwalan (Jun 23, 2014)

trevskoda said:


> best cars ever built i still have 5 of them.




i prefered the vw of course . but only the aircooled really. 
mind we have had several 2cv,s here and they are alright . 
but a 1500 notchback vw is my favourite . 
mind i had them when you could buy one for 30quid . 
think a schwimwagon is about the only aircooled vw i havent had .


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## Teutone (Jun 24, 2014)

frontslide said:


> Think of Cat D like this example:
> 
> A car is worth £6,000, but sustains some minor cosmetic damage.
> 
> ...



I do undertand all this, but I want to see the calculations of a 40k-45k motorhome written off due to some "minor" hail damage on the roof. Sure it won't make a difference how many dimples or how deep they are.
If the roof skin needs replacing, it needs replacing. Just curious how the numbers worked out.


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## 271 (Jun 24, 2014)

No idea why the insurance company would know it's a Cat-D, this is not a question they ask when taking on new business. My current fleet includes a Cat-C and a Cat-D. It is quite possible that you could buy a Cat-D without knowing unless you did a HPI check in any case. The insurance would of course pay out a much reduced price if it was written off.


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## Teutone (Jun 24, 2014)

271 said:


> No idea why the insurance company would know it's a Cat-D, this is not a question they ask when taking on new business. My current fleet includes a Cat-C and a Cat-D. It is quite possible that you could buy a Cat-D without knowing unless you did a HPI check in any case. The insurance would of course pay out a much reduced price if it was written off.



so you are saying that I don't need to tell my insurer that's a Cat D when taking out insurance?


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## 271 (Jun 24, 2014)

If it was important they would ask, after all it is insurance companies who sell the salvage. If repaired vehicles could not be insured they would be worthless, at the end of the day all that insurance companies are interested in is making money.


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## 271 (Jun 24, 2014)

.


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## Deleted member 38556 (Jun 24, 2014)

Omit any thing to your insurer at your own risk 
If they can find a get out they will 
You may save a few £s. Getting a cat D  
It may cost you if it is involved in an accident  in the first  few years you own it.


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## frontslide (Jun 25, 2014)

"Personally I am not bothered about Cat D or not, just don't want to have the insurers making me running around every year at renewal time.
Also resell value doens't concern me. You buy cheap, you sell cheap."

You answered your own question  in your original post as far as buying one.
 Re insurance, as has been stated, when getting a quote you are never asked the question but in the event of a claim you will get a reduced payout "You buy cheap, you sell cheap." same thing really.


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## Teutone (Jun 25, 2014)

I would be very surprised it they don't check this. I don't want to get caught out in the event of a claim. "Sorry Sir but you haven't declared bla bla bla..."


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## frontslide (Jun 25, 2014)

Ask Direct Line - If my car is a Category D write off, will you still insure it?


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## Teutone (Jun 25, 2014)

frontslide said:


> Ask Direct Line - If my car is a Category D write off, will you still insure it?



Nice Link, thank you.

Now I need to ask the same question for a motorhome. Insurer who I have my car, my wifes car and the house insurance with, would NOT insure me on the motorhome because I have not a UK driving license but an EU one only.


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## sak (Jun 25, 2014)

Most insurance companies will authorise to repair a vehicle up to 60% of the market value of the vehicle, that is how they decide the cut-off point between repair and write off.


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## jenks (Jun 25, 2014)

Most insurance companies will check the insurance database to check for previous claims, the check is made against the vehicle reg number. Some people of lesser morals put private plates on a cat D or cat C to slow down the information tracking... which might get the cheaper insurance / won't show up any HPI information etc.... until there's an accident or claim and engine numbers / chassis numbers come into play!


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## Teutone (Jun 25, 2014)

I had this with more than one Insurer. Took me half a day to phone around to find one which was accepting me. But how do you get past the first contact on the phone after beeing declined? 
There are many other conditions insurers decline people for. Too young, male or female. Sure this would be a breach as well?


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## nipagan (Jun 25, 2014)

*cat d*

might be worth keeping in mind cat d means it only has cosmetic damage with no structural repairs . in other words it wont effect the driving or use . 

just a thought 

peter


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## Ex Greeny (Jun 26, 2014)

*CategoryC, D?*

Forgive me for being a bit thick, but what is a Category C, or Category D Motorhome?


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## frontslide (Jun 26, 2014)

Ex Greeny said:


> Forgive me for being a bit thick, but what is a Category C, or Category D Motorhome?


Insurance write off catergories.

CATC	Vehicles that have sustained heavy damage and have been written off by the insurance
companies due to the costs of repair exceeding the pre-accident value of the vehicle.
These vehicles can be sold for repair as the damage is considered to be repairable but
the purchaser will require a VOSA Test in order for the vehicle to be driven on the roads
safely and legally.

CATD	Vehicles that have sustained light damage but have been written off by the insurance
companies for other reasons even if the repair costs are less than the pre-accident value of
the vehicle. 
These vehicles can be sold for repairs. The (V5) Log Book is issued upon application.
No VOSA VIC check is required.


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## 271 (Jun 26, 2014)

jenks said:


> Most insurance companies will check the insurance database to check for previous claims, the check is made against the vehicle reg number. Some people of lesser morals put private plates on a cat D or cat C to slow down the information tracking... which might get the cheaper insurance / won't show up any HPI information etc.... until there's an accident or claim and engine numbers / chassis numbers come into play!



Putting a cherished transfer plate on a vehicle will not confuse or frustrate a HPI check for more than a micro-second, if anything it is more likely to result in a false alert.
The only stipulation that most if not all insurance companies make is that the vehicle must be roadworthy, being a repaired vehicle does not make it un-roadworthy.


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