# inverters



## delicagirl (Feb 27, 2017)

hello guys and gals....  the ongoing electrical saga of my van has taken a new twist.  i have had 2 entirely separate garages (both with some electrical expertise), plus a campervanner of many years experience  ask me why i don't use the inverter for my laptop.    Both have mentioned that 12v cigar sockets (no matter how well wired) are simply not designed for several hours of use for a laptop and that i should consider using the inverter.  The fact that this 12v socket has burnt out once, sometimes gets very hot and the fuse has blown once might indicate that this is true. 

my naive brain has always thought  that a 240v 3 pin electrical appliance such as my old laptop  (19 volts and  3.42 amps are written on the bottom of it) would drain a 12v battery in minutes.   This may or may not be true as it is more than likely that i don't understand this relationship.

Do others use an inverter when wilding ? 

The other way i have  looked at my electrical problems is that i have 3 leisure batteries and only one 100A solar panel...  do i need another solar panel maybe to stock up the batteries more quickly ?

all comments gratefully received.....


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## Wooie1958 (Feb 27, 2017)

Oh dear, what a can of worms you`ve opened    :scared:

I have a Sterling Pro Power Q 350W Inverter connected directly to the leisure batteries    Sterling Power - Pro Power Q 12v, 350w Inverter [PN: I12350]

It will happily power the Laptop, TV, Satellite etc. although we don`t have them all going at the same time.

The reason i went down the inverter route was so that i didn`t need to keep changing from mains power leads to 12V leads and back again.

This way works for us and i`m happy with it.


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## Admin (Feb 27, 2017)

Hello,

I am :

A qualified Electrician 
A qualified electrical inspector
A qualified electronics engineer 
Qualified in Electronic systems

I am experienced with motorhome electrical systems and computer systems
This does not of course mean I am right, but as it was me they first suggested they you should not use the inverter to charge your laptop (at Rutland Water) I guess that it was my opinion that you are weighing up against the other opinions.
Using an inverter to convert 12v to 230v then plugging in a power adaptor to convert in back down is a wasteful use of power. If you feel they you have enough surplus energy then this method is fine. 

Most 12v laptop power supplies use a max of 90w or 7.5 amps. The rated power of a cbe 12v socket is 120w or 10 amps. And they are made to supply this continuously. 

12V Socket - Auto | Leisureshopdirect


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## delicagirl (Feb 27, 2017)

Thank you   -   yes indeed   one big can of worms, slowly getting it less wriggly !!!!!

so how many hours a day do you estimate the inverter would power a laptop for ?  Re electrical equipment i only have a phone charger/camera battery charger/laptop in the van. 

i recall different discussions on here about sine wave etc   (whatever that might be!!)   would it help if i found the inverter booklet and gave some technical information about it here ?


   back later.....


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## Deleted member 5816 (Feb 27, 2017)

The cigarette lighter socket is a poor idea at best if this has ever been used as a cigarette lighter socket even worse.( dirty connections )
It's better to use a proper 12v socket wired either to the leisure battery or the van battery.
The use of an inverter for anything is a poor idea.

Alf


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## jagmanx (Feb 27, 2017)

*Do not use an inverter for a laptop NO NEED*

It will use more battery power
12V to 240V and then to 19V

Simply get an extra good socket fitted connected to your leisure battery (ies) with a suitable extra fuse
19 volts at 3.4 amps means your cigarette lighter socket should use 19Vx3.4A = 64.6 watts divide by 12V =5.38888 amps so  6 amp fuse would be Ok but you would probably have to use a 10amp fuse ... if not using your laptop it may take 20mins to charge 20 x 6 amps =120 amp minutes or 2 amphours you have "loads of power".
Just make sure you get good quality fittings.

I only have 1x 85amphour LB and a 120W solar.. I also charge a tablet and phone and mi-fi ALL off 12V. ( as well as my laptop which I use extensively )
We rarely use a camp-site and even then avoid EHU if it costs extra.

If


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## Admin (Feb 27, 2017)

Alf said:


> The cigarette lighter socket is a poor idea at best if this has ever been used as a cigarette lighter socket even worse.( dirty connections )
> It's better to use a proper 12v socket wired either to the leisure battery or the van battery.
> The use of an inverter for anything is a poor idea.
> 
> Alf



Yes,

A purpose made socket for the supply of 12v power is the best option.


The newer CBE style 12v power sockets are much better than standard vehicle cig lighter sockets, although they look the same. They have more surface area from the four negative contacts and this also gives a tighter connection for the positive pin.


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## jagmanx (Feb 27, 2017)

*So 100% agreement*

Is this a first ?


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## Derekoak (Feb 27, 2017)

*Cigarette socket*

All my cigarette type sockets even supposedly good ones have failed.  I have converted all 12 volt plug in connections to Anderson powerpole connections  15 , 30 and 45 amp as required. We have a small inverter connected with a 45 amp powerpole but would not use it for anything that would run off 12 volt .


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## Wooie1958 (Feb 27, 2017)

jagmanx said:


> Is this a first ?




No, what about me   :mad1:


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## Obanboy666 (Feb 27, 2017)

Last but not least buy another modern laptop.
My MacBook Pro lasts for hours.


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## Deleted member 13859 (Feb 27, 2017)

I have a a universal adaptor from maplin which i asked them was this ok to use for my laptop so would this meet the requirements as ive never used it

tranivanman


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## Johnnygm7lsi (Feb 27, 2017)

I use my 2KW inverter for everything 240v, but you need plenty battery power and a quick way to recharge them, which I have, what you would be better with is a Hella 20 amp 12v socket and plug wired directly to the battery with high amperage cable, then swop your cig laptop socket for a Hella one, like these hella 20 amp 12v socket - Google Search


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## delicagirl (Feb 27, 2017)

Alf said:


> The cigarette lighter socket is a poor idea at best if this has ever been used as a cigarette lighter socket even worse.( dirty connections )
> It's better to use a proper 12v socket wired either to the leisure battery or the van battery.
> The use of an inverter for anything is a poor idea.
> 
> Alf



thank you Alf....    i have indeed got a new  *proper 12v socket wired to the leisure battery* and which has never seen a fag in its life !!


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> hello guys and gals....  the ongoing electrical saga of my van has taken a new twist.  i have had 2 entirely separate garages (both with some electrical expertise), plus a campervanner of many years experience  ask me why i don't use the inverter for my laptop.    Both have mentioned that 12v cigar sockets (no matter how well wired) are simply not designed for several hours of use for a laptop and that i should consider using the inverter.  The fact that this 12v socket has burnt out once, sometimes gets very hot and the fuse has blown once might indicate that this is true.
> 
> my naive brain has always thought  that a 240v 3 pin electrical appliance such as my old laptop  (19 volts and  3.42 amps are written on the bottom of it) would drain a 12v battery in minutes.   This may or may not be true as it is more than likely that i don't understand this relationship.
> 
> ...



Hi ya DG,
My Laptop is 20v @ 2.25amp.
I Haven't got a cig Charger for it, I use an 150w inverter via my Cig lighter to Charge whatever rechargeable bits n bobs I have while I'm running my Engine Or Traveling, THEN if needed I use my Power Pack to Top it up if I'm staying put for a second night.
Now I HAVE drilled some extra ventilation holes in my small inverter to aid air flow cooling. But this all works for me. 
BUT have to agree a Proper Plug connection is by far the best solution.


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## Silver sprinter (Feb 27, 2017)

Agnes calm down, that's nice


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## trevskoda (Feb 27, 2017)

I use the heavy duty cigy/usb sockets and thick wiring ,these usb combos can be bought of ebay.


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## mistericeman (Feb 27, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> I use the heavy duty cigy/usb sockets and thick wiring ,these usb combos can be bought of ebay.




Best will in the world chap .....theyre NOT that heavy duty ....soft plastic melts soon as it gets even slightly warm ....the Bakelite DIN type are far better at dealing with anything like sensible draw OR go the anderson socket type .

My 300w inverter was happy as larry whilst charging my video camera ....however the 3000w one is best wired direct to battery bank directly via a fuse lol


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## trevskoda (Feb 27, 2017)

mistericeman said:


> Best will in the world chap .....theyre NOT that heavy duty ....soft plastic melts soon as it gets even slightly warm ....the Bakelite DIN type are far better at dealing with anything like sensible draw OR go the anderson socket type .
> 
> My 300w inverter was happy as larry whilst charging my video camera ....however the 3000w one is best wired direct to battery bank directly via a fuse lol



From what i can recall there ok to 20ah but i do agree the bakelite ones will be a good job.
I have only used mine to charge phone / phablet and a 10 inch tv,cant see a l/top pulling to much power to charge.
I would not run a inverter of a socket but wire direct to batt via a fused link.


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## mistericeman (Feb 27, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> From what i can recall there ok to 20ah but i do agree the bakelite ones will be a good job.
> I have only used mine to charge phone / phablet and a 10 inch tv,cant see a l/top pulling to much power to charge.
> I would not run a inverter of a socket but wire direct to batt via a fused link.



Don't get me wrong.... I've a couple fitted in the transit BUT wouldn't plug In much more than phone chargers/tv power supply.... 
when you look at the space terminals on the rear they are a tad cheap plastic.... 
mind as long as fused properly... shudnt be probs.


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 27, 2017)

Yeah, My Cig Lighter wiring is 20amp, Fused to 15amp & I run the 150w Inverter from it fine,
But as already said Only Light use, In fact my Power Pack Inverter is Double my Cig Lighter Inverter @ 300w !.


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## harrow (Feb 27, 2017)

The laptop chargers do use a fair amount of juice and running them of a cigarette lighter socket is going to get warm or hot.

The cigarette lighter sockets were never designed for that sort of use over several hours.

stay at home or use an electric hook up.

A small inverter will also keep your laptop going :hammer::hammer::hammer:

You could always have a generator


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## listerdiesel (Feb 27, 2017)

We take an Acer laptop with us when we go away, and have the correct 12V converter to allow it to charge off a 12V source.

19V at 2.75A is what it puts out, assuming a flat battery and the laptop turned on.

That is 52W, and assuming 85% efficiency that gives an input current at 12.5V of around 4.5A in round numbers.

We have a 550W inverter in the trailer but rarely use it as all the appliances are 12V, except for the microwave which we only use on site with EHU.

Peter


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## mistericeman (Feb 27, 2017)

listerdiesel said:


> We take an Acer laptop with us when we go away, and have the correct 12V converter to allow it to charge off a 12V source.
> 
> 19V at 2.75A is what it puts out, assuming a flat battery and the laptop turned on.
> 
> ...



Most of our stuff is 12v too... though in winter when it's too cold and wet outside to cook on the BBQ/Coleman petrol stove we use the microwave/kettle/slow cooker/toaster powered by the 3000w inverter.... 
works fine for us as we move around a lot... 








Horses for courses though as always....


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## QFour (Feb 27, 2017)

Why bother with an inverter when the laptop runs of 12v all you are doing is adding to the complication and using far more power. CHEAP 12v Cigar sockets are to blame they are absolutely useless for powering equipment that needs a little extra power. Best one to buy is a Hella socket and plug to match they are rated at 10 amps which is more than enough. The nice thing about the Hella plug is its a tight fit and has multiple prongs round the side which give it a positive lock.






As for using a 2kw inverter to charge a laptop. It probably uses more power on standby than the computer uses. My IPad charges from a 5v USB 2.1A Socket.

Perhaps instead of using a computer you would be better spending your money on an Android or IPad Tablet. Not many things you cannot do with a tablet and they use far less power.

..


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## IanH (Feb 27, 2017)

Maplins....................12v power supply unit................12v or so in, whatever you need out (DC)

Why the BH would you need to convert 12V, or so DC into 230Vac to then run a PC power supply to then give the PC 19vdc or so whatever it needs??????????


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## trevskoda (Feb 27, 2017)

QFour said:


> Why bother with an inverter when the laptop runs of 12v all you are doing is adding to the complication and using far more power. CHEAP 12v Cigar sockets are to blame they are absolutely useless for powering equipment that needs a little extra power. Best one to buy is a Hella socket and plug to match they are rated at 10 amps which is more than enough. The nice thing about the Hella plug is its a tight fit and has multiple prongs round the side which give it a positive lock.
> 
> View attachment 51210
> 
> ...


You are correct i have a 10 inch one which in fact is a phablet so i can put a ph sim in it & it has a built in gps,3 core 1 meg ram 16 memery with a 32 gig sd card cost 60 bucks of ebay,its even faster than my big pc at home and can be charged from usb socket in van.


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## QFour (Feb 27, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> You are correct i have a 10 inch one



Bragging again ..


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## alwaysared (Feb 27, 2017)

This plug and socket may be better than a standard cigarette lighter socket.

Regards,
Del


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 28, 2017)

IanH said:


> Maplins....................12v power supply unit................12v or so in, whatever you need out (DC)
> 
> Why the BH would you need to convert 12V, or so DC into 230Vac to then run a PC power supply to then give the PC 19vdc or so whatever it needs??????????



Yeah sounds (& iS) an inefficient way of doing it, I suppose it's down to you could then use the same suitable wattage inverter to Run or Charge Other Things for the convenience sake of just Plugging it in without worrying about Voltage settings, & as the chances are that the inverter will only be on while Running your Engine or Traveling then you'll actually be putting Charge INTO your Battery rather than Taking it OUT of your battery if using one of the 12v to ?v plug ins when Parked up !. SOME things actually charge BETTER & QUICKER on 230v than on a 12v Conversion too !.
 It's just about Options, Routine & Discipline really.
Start Engine, Plug in what needs to be Charged, Drive to Park up, knowing you've got a Full 'Device' Full Engine Battery, Full Leasure Battery, Full Power Pack. The combination of which gives me easily 2 days or more Freedom WHOO WHOO !.


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## oldish hippy (Feb 28, 2017)

well in the van ihave two high amp socket soassume they wired for it


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## delicagirl (Feb 28, 2017)

IanH said:


> Maplins....................12v power supply unit................12v or so in, whatever you need out (DC)
> 
> *Why the BH would you need to convert 12V, or so DC into 230Vac to then run a PC power supply to then give the PC 19vdc or so whatever it needs?*?????????




Because when i bought the van and knew nothing i was conned and overcharged by charlatans and moneymakers  who convinced me these were the things i  needed .....   this forum and its wealth of advice has been a dogsend  to me   oops  !!!    godsend   

Well  some very interesting thoughts  here.   the reason i need a laptop is that i write and am a touch typist and need a proper keyboard.


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## mark61 (Feb 28, 2017)

Another here who charges from 12 volt.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Feb 28, 2017)

mark61 said:


> Another here who charges from 12 volt.



Me too,I have a dc/dc converter for my laptop which runs at 19v.I have fitted a 12v cig lighter type socket direct from the leisure battery.I agree with the posters that say converting 12v to 240v with an inverter and then back down to 19v is inefficient.With DG's set up of 3 leisure batteries and a 100w solar panel it's likely that she would be electrically self sufficient for most of the year and even in winter be able to last several days without any form of charge.


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## Derekoak (Feb 28, 2017)

*Inverter*

At the beginning our only non 12 volt or usb need was a 16 volt Bluetooth speaker. I followed advice to be efficient and constructed a buck boost charger plugged into a cigarette socket.  The wiring on this became dicky it was of course the cigarette sockets but also the jacket plug being only just compatible with the only twin core wiring I could find.
Then my wife wanted to bring our 150 watt liquidiser whisk 240 volt so I bought a 300 watt inverter and installed it on 4mm wire to the fuse box using anderson poles.
 It did not then seem worth remaking the 16 volt buck boost charger for a charge that happens once a week so we bring the mains charger for that now. It is convenience and our 100 watt solar ensures we are not short of electric like we used to occasionally be. It is horses for courses!


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## trevskoda (Feb 28, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> Because when i bought the van and knew nothing i was conned and overcharged by charlatans and moneymakers  who convinced me these were the things i  needed .....   this forum and its wealth of advice has been a dogsend  to me   oops  !!!    godsend
> 
> Well  some very interesting thoughts  here.   the reason i need a laptop is that i write and am a touch typist and need a proper keyboard.



You can add a keyboard to a tablet/phabled del.


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## sparrks (Feb 28, 2017)

I use these along with the corresponding socket for my laptops or any item requiring up to 20 amps - it's never got warm yet - it's push and twist to connect and press button and twist to release.


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## delicagirl (Feb 28, 2017)

hairydog said:


> For goodness sake, we've already been over this. I remember telling you that cigar lighter sockets were not suitable for providing power for a long time and that they would overheat. I even explained why. But going from a 12v charger to an inverter won't fix the problem. What you need to do is wire the charger into a switched, fused supply, not connected through a cigar lighter socket. I told you that before too.
> An inverter is the last thing you want. They waste power turning 12v to 230v and the laptop adapter wastes more turning 230v into 20v. Just to avoid a bad plug/socket connection. You'd need to insane to consider it.





Thank you hairydog (and no doubt others who are as frustrated as you  -  and me!!)    This is the first time i have asked for info and advice re the inverter, which i have never used. Prior to this thread I did not really understand that an inverter had to do so much converting/inverting from one voltage to another and i can now see that it would indeed use too much power.  I also now understand the difference between a cigar socket (which will inevitably get hot and dangerous) and a direct wiring of my laptop charging plug into the batteries. 

Part of my obsession with understanding how my van works, is so that (hopefully) i never get conned again by charlatans who lied to me and who have cost me a lot of money in the last 2.5 years.  If i do break down when not at home and where there is no wi-fi,  i now have a thick file of information gleaned from here, which has given me a good working knowledge of my van.  The amount of knowledge i now have is enormous (thanks to WC guys and gale) in comparison to when i bought it.

On this thread WCers have also recommended the best components to buy - which will be most useful when i get the leisure batteries' wiring re-done.

Another step forward.....


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## delicagirl (Feb 28, 2017)

Admin said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am :
> 
> ...




Thank you Phil...   Rutland water 2015  seems a long time ago and i think i was very befuddled with the amount of new information my non-tecchie brain was trying to understand. But i must have remembered it because i have never used the inverter.


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## harrow (Feb 28, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> Thank you Phil...   Rutland water 2015  seems a long time ago and i think i was very befuddled with the amount of new information my non-tecchie brain was trying to understand. But i must have remembered it because i have never used the inverter.



Inverters are not the work of the devil.

More powerful inverters can use more standby power when not in use, so switch it off.

Yes you have to consider that they do use power when they are connected and switched on even if nothing is plugged in, so switch it off if you are not using it

Laptop chargers that run off 12 volts are not that economical and that is why they get hot.

:ninja::ninja::ninja:

You could leave the van engine running while you use the laptop.......


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## delicagirl (Feb 28, 2017)

harrow said:


> Inverters are not the work of the devil.
> 
> More powerful inverters can use more standby power when not in use, so switch it off.
> 
> ...





my inverter has never been switched on.    maybe you mis-read my original figures  -  my laptop is 19v.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Feb 28, 2017)

hairydog said:


> For goodness sake, we've already been over this. I remember telling you that cigar lighter sockets were not suitable for providing power for a long time and that they would overheat. I even explained why. But going from a 12v charger to an inverter won't fix the problem. What you need to do is wire the charger into a switched, fused supply, not connected through a cigar lighter socket. I told you that before too.
> An inverter is the last thing you want. They waste power turning 12v to 230v and the laptop adapter wastes more turning 230v into 20v. Just to avoid a bad plug/socket connection. You'd need to insane to consider it.



I must be insane then.:lol-053:

I have fitted a CBE type twin socket(240/12v).The 12v socket is the cigar lighter type and is rated at 10A,it is wired directly to the leisure battery using 2.5mm cable through an in line fuse.My laptop specs are 2.37A @19v and even with prolonged use with a dc/dc converter the plug and socket connection barely get warm to the touch.


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## harrow (Feb 28, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> my inverter has never been switched on.    maybe you mis-read my original figures  -  my laptop is 19v.



NO the supply to *your van laptop charger* is 12 volts, and in your case is increased to 19 volts, so is in effect is an inverter itself.:wave::wave::wave:


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## delicagirl (Feb 28, 2017)

harrow said:


> NO the supply to *your van laptop charger* is 12 volts, and in your case is increased to 19 volts, so is in effect is an inverter itself.:wave::wave::wave:





AAARRRGGGHHH   I've got a headache now !!!!!


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## harrow (Feb 28, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> AAARRRGGGHHH   I've got a headache now !!!!!


Well the simple thing is you can't get something for nothing.

If you convert your leisure battery voltage say 12 volts to 230 volts there are overheads hence you feel thing getting warm or even hot.

If you have a plug in cigarette lighter adaptor that converts 12 volts to 19 volts the conversion process causes heat and hence additional power consumption.

If you have a brand new TV at home, yes it is wonderful modern technology, but it still gets warm at the back, hence addition energy required to operate it.

As I say if you are on your own and there is no one around to annoy, you could always leave the engine running and that would keep the batteries topped up.


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## jagmanx (Feb 28, 2017)

*No*



harrow said:


> NO the supply to *your van laptop charger* is 12 volts, and in your case is increased to 19 volts, so is in effect is an inverter itself.:wave::wave::wave:



An inverter changes 12V DC to (usually) 24 V AC So canhanging both voltage and the nature of the supply
The laptop power supply the "does the opposite" cahnging 240V AC to 19V DC
So an unneccessary and wasteful  method

There are many suppliers of Devices for laptops which change 12V DC to 19V DC This must be better !

 Maplin for one
power for laptops as well


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## harrow (Feb 28, 2017)

NO the supply to your *van laptop charger *is 12 volts, and in your case is increased to 19 volts, so is in effect is an inverter itself.

Not the home mains charger.


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## Debs (Feb 28, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> AAARRRGGGHHH   I've got a headache now !!!!!



I've just read through all this thread, and I also now have a a headache.......c:


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## jagmanx (Feb 28, 2017)

*This could get sillly but*



harrow said:


> NO the supply to your *van laptop charger *is 12 volts, and in your case is increased to 19 volts, so is in effect is an inverter itself.
> 
> Not the home mains charger.



Power inverter - Wikipedia

Thus as I posted !2V DC Inverter  to 240V aC
Power supply Then to 19V DC

12V DC to 19V DC is one device rather than two without requiring DC to AC and back to DC

I will refrain from any further replies on this subject  as it will get us nowhere !
I might not be an electrician but I do understand !


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## alcam (Feb 28, 2017)

harrow said:


> NO the supply to *your van laptop charger* is 12 volts, and in your case is increased to 19 volts, so is in effect is an inverter
> itself.:wave::wave::wave:



Always understood inverters converted dc to ac ?


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## Nesting Zombie (Feb 28, 2017)

LOL LOL LOL, OH MY WORD !,

Inverted Inverters, Converted Converters, 12v-19v-230v. AC-DC & we haven't even got on to Pure  Sinewave or Modified Sinewave yet !.

Just out of interest DG, How have you been coping with your Laptop Charging up to Now !, Could you maybe just buy a 2nd Laptop Battery ?.


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## sparrks (Feb 28, 2017)

alcam said:


> Always understood inverters converted dc to ac ?



A poor form of ac  For more info


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## jagmanx (Feb 28, 2017)

*Yes Indeed*



sparrks said:


> A poor form of ac  For more info



It may well cause a laptop power supply (240V AC to 19V DC) to fail !

So I read this as another thumbs up for a GOOD 12V DC to 19V DC device !


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## Admin (Feb 28, 2017)

I think it is important for readers to understand that there is a lot of personal opinions in this thread.

The 12v power socket is used by the World's largest companies in their vehicles and in their products. These products under go testing to ensure that they are safe for long term use. If they were not fit for purpose, then they would not use them.

The main problem is when people use cheap versions of these sockets to power high loads of over 10Amps, like inverters.

Good quality sockets from companies like CBE, installed correctly, will handle the 120w that they are generally rated at. They will do this 24 hours a day. If they could not, then they would not be selling them.

It is important to ensure that the plug is clean and inserted correctly into the socket.


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## QFour (Feb 28, 2017)

alwaysared said:


> This plug and socket



It's just a CHEAP Chinese version of the Hella Plug and Socket ..


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## trevskoda (Feb 28, 2017)

harrow said:


> NO the supply to *your van laptop charger* is 12 volts, and in your case is increased to 19 volts, so is in effect is an inverter itself.:wave::wave::wave:



It is in deed but uses very little current/amps,so a cigy socket will be ok with this but not for the big inverters which must be wired direct to battery via a fuse.


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## trevskoda (Feb 28, 2017)

harrow said:


> NO the supply to your *van laptop charger *is 12 volts, and in your case is increased to 19 volts, so is in effect is an inverter itself.
> 
> Not the home mains charger.


A small jump without any convesion and a lot less power used.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Feb 28, 2017)

This is the CBE socket I have fitted which is good quality and doesn't overheat when supplying the laptop with a dc/dc converter(12v-19v)for prolonged periods


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## QFour (Feb 28, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> Because when i bought the van and knew nothing i was conned and overcharged by charlatans and moneymakers  who convinced me these were the things i  needed .....   this forum and its wealth of advice has been a dogsend  to me   oops  !!!    godsend
> 
> Well  some very interesting thoughts  here.   the reason i need a laptop is that i write and am a touch typist and need a proper keyboard.



So 10" Tablet with a bluetooth keyboard ( Large as you like ) .. No reason why you have to have a PC. My IMac uses a bluetooth keyboard .. Perhaps you should visit PC World and give the keyboards a bashing .. You can even back everything up to an external hard drive via USB .. Tablet will run off 12v socket using a USB Adaptor ..

..


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## sparrks (Feb 28, 2017)

QFour said:


> So 10" Tablet with a bluetooth keyboard ( Large as you like ) .. No reason why you have to have a PC. My IMac uses a bluetooth keyboard .. Perhaps you should visit PC World and give the keyboards a bashing .. You can even back everything up to an external hard drive via USB .. Tablet will run off 12v socket using a USB Adaptor ..
> 
> ..



lot cheaper to buy a 12v power charger


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## jagmanx (Feb 28, 2017)

*I do not think so ! but just My  preference*



QFour said:


> So 10" Tablet with a bluetooth keyboard .. No reason why you have to have a PC. You can even back everything up to an external hard drive via USB .. Tablet will run off 12v socket using a USB Adaptor ..



A proper keyboard and screen are best for prolonged typing etc.

I have a 10 in Tablet and keyboard but I find for some work.. The laptop ( 13in HP Stream) is so much better.
It charges very quickly off a !2V to 19V charger.

Tablet is great but for some work a proper laptop is so much better for more detailed work either WP or SS
AND not a problem to power/charge


----------



## sparrks (Feb 28, 2017)

Best to fit a 'locking' type power socket for any high current device. Whilst true cigarette sockets have the rated power the design was for uses of up to 30s until the lighter was glowing.


----------



## Deleted member 13867 (Feb 28, 2017)

Just don't forget with all this talk of sockets being able to handle the maximum load a vital part of this ability to handle the rated load is the plug which must also be of the same high quality to prevent overheating. With any plug and socket arrangement it is resistance between the contacts causing voltage drop that will cause heat under load. So with a good quality plug inserted into a good quality socket and providing that the contacts are clean there will be negligible resistance and therefor negligible heat produced.
Dave


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## alwaysared (Feb 28, 2017)

QFour said:


> It's just a CHEAP Chinese version of the Hella Plug and Socket ..



Maybe it is but why does it have to cheap because it's Chinese? Apple's products certainly aren't lol

Regards,
Del


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## ricc (Mar 1, 2017)

theres a world of difference between cheaply made chinese crap sold at at premium prics  (apple crap)
and cheap cinese stuff thats actually fit for purpose and does what it says on the tin.
often the same stuff is shoved in branded packaging and sold here at higher prices by the "reputable brand names"


----------



## Deleted member 5816 (Mar 1, 2017)

Interesting this is a supposedly  a Hella product sold on ebay by as I have always found a reputable dealer if you know otherwise I suggest you contact EBay.

Alf





QFour said:


> It's just a CHEAP Chinese version of the Hella Plug and Socket ..


----------



## Admin (Mar 1, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Oh yes they are! Cheaply made Chinese tat. Yes, the retail price is high, but that's down to the huge marketing cost and profit margins.
> Apple stuff is only designed to last a year or two, so being cheaply made doesn't matter.
> Stylish, light and slim, expensive and short-lived cheaply-made products. That how Apple makes money.



I am sorry but that is incorrect. Apple hardware is pretty much the best that money can buy. I have been a Mac user for many years and have never had one fail or wear out on me. Many five year old Macbooks are better than the laptops that you can buy today.

Apple products are at the cutting edge of technology. They make these innovations then others copy them.

Apple products also have a higher resale value.

My opinion is based on years of use of Apple product and being involved in the retail of secondhand technology.


----------



## jagmanx (Mar 1, 2017)

*Apple*



Admin said:


> I am sorry but that is incorrect. Apple hardware is pretty much the best that money can buy. I have been a Mac user for many years and have never had one fail or wear out on me. Many five year old Macbooks are better than the laptops that you can buy today.
> 
> Apple products are at the cutting edge of technology. They make these innovations then others copy them.
> 
> ...



I have never used apple products so my post must be considered Biased.

I believe they are very good/excellent but
You can get very good products from mother reputable sources
eg Samsung and more.
My opinions are no doubt biased in that I  managed a PC (no-apple based) network and some idiot bouth apple PCs without any consultation.
Apple may have been the very best for DTP and graphics 5 or 10 years ago and worth paying the premium
NOW you can get very good devices and software either from Microsoft and to a lesser extent Linux.. I believe your server(s) are linux ?

My snapshot camera has died and I will be getting a samsung smartphone with camera to replace.
This will match my samsung Tablet which is too big to use as a satnav but the smart phone will do that and also work as a hotspot for my tablet and laptop.


----------



## Admin (Mar 1, 2017)

jagmanx said:


> I have never used apple products so my post must be considered Biased.
> 
> I believe they are very good/excellent but
> You can get very good products from mother reputable sources
> ...



MacOS OSX and IOS are all Unix based the same as linux is. They share the strengths of Linux.

I have tried several times to change over to PC or linux based systems, but they are just no where near as good for professional use. 
My argument was not that OSX or IOS are better systems (but they are), it was that Apple hardware is not rubbish that is designed to only last a few years.


----------



## Fletch6 (Mar 1, 2017)

.


----------



## sparrks (Mar 1, 2017)

imacs along with Macbooks since changing to Intel processors share probably 90% of the computing hardware as PCs. Apple like adding a few propitiatory touches to this hardware whilst they may improve the hardware slightly they will improve Apple's profit margin. A lot of their products are not very 'green' as they are not readily upgradeable, try upgrading the memory and a lot of the time it will be soldered on.

Most people when comparing Macs to PCs never seem to compare like for like ie a macbook pro up against a £500 Laptop - no contest. The software is a lot better than 

Microsofts offering if you can get on with it, personally I can't, but Win 10 might make me take another look.

I remember reading an article many years ago concerning the ipod, under $10 dollars of components around the same again in labour costs, $70 odd of profit to Apple.

As for being indestructible, a relative of mine who uses them for his business has had a couple Macbooks Pro break (repaired under warranty) and his imac died before Christmas at north of a £1000 to fix is now written off . Yes if they survive then they do have good resale value.


----------



## ricc (Mar 1, 2017)

personally i think the merits of apple computers is a different argument to the merits or otherwise of their phones and tablets.

the case for a mac against a pc  for serious computer work is different to that for an ipad versus an android tablet to tweet and update facebook


----------



## alwaysared (Mar 1, 2017)

alwaysared said:


> Maybe it is but why does it have to cheap because it's Chinese? Apple's products certainly aren't lol



This was said tongue in cheek, I wasn't saying Apple's stuff wasn't any good, I was pointing out that not all stuff made or assembled in China is cheap, quality control plays a large part in the cost wherever stuff's made and I'm sure that Apple's QC is better than most. I've worked in ITC for a good many years and have customers with Apple, Windows and Linux stuff and believe me they can all go wrong and thankfully they all do which is good for my business lol. I have one customer who absolutely loves the style of the Apple Macbook and has been buying them since around 2005 but the first thing he does is buy a retail version of Windows and pays me to install it because he doesn't like the Apple OS and he's a pro photographer! There is no one better than the other, it just depends on what you like and what suits you, you can mostly do everything on a PC that you can do on a MAC. The one thing we all forget when we run down Windows and praise the MAC OS is the MAC OS only has to work with their hardware whereas Windows is expected to work with lots of different hardware so with this in mind I think Microsoft do a pretty good job.

Regards,
Del


----------



## sparrks (Mar 1, 2017)

alwaysared said:


> This was said tongue in cheek, I wasn't saying Apple's stuff wasn't any good, I was pointing out that not all stuff made or assembled in China is cheap, quality control plays a large part in the cost wherever stuff's made and I'm sure that Apple's QC is better than most. I've worked in ITC for a good many years and have customers with Apple, Windows and Linux stuff and believe me they can all go wrong and thankfully they all do which is good for my business lol. I have one customer who absolutely loves the style of the Apple Macbook and has been buying them since around 2005 but the first thing he does is buy a retail version of Windows and pays me to install it because he doesn't like the Apple OS and he's a pro photographer! There is no one better than the other, it just depends on what you like and what suits you, you can mostly do everything on a PC that you can do on a MAC. *The one thing we all forget when we run down Windows and praise the MAC OS is the MAC OS only has to work with their hardware whereas Windows is expected to work with lots of different hardware so with this in mind I think Microsoft do a pretty good job.*
> 
> Regards,
> Del



I think too many people overlook that - if Microsoft built a PC and tuned the OS to the hardware and vice versa then they would have very few if any problems, but somany people expect  Win xx to work with any configuration of hardware.


----------



## El Veterano (Mar 2, 2017)

I have a 600W pure sine wave inverter. After trying two different Ebay bought 12v chargers for charging my newish Dell laptop and then my brand new Asus notebook, both the chargers were on the verge of catching fire, I now use the inverter for charging anything that needs charging - laptop, toothbrush, razor etc. No battery problems in 2 years, with 100w solar panel. But we do tend to move just about every day.


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## El Veterano (Mar 2, 2017)

jagmanx said:


> This will match my samsung Tablet which is too big to use as a satnav but the smart phone will do that and also work as a hotspot for my tablet and laptop.



I would be very reluctant to use a smart phone as a sat-nav after reading the latest reports on the police cracking down on people using mobile 'phones whilst driving. What does everyone else think?


----------



## funkylyn (Mar 2, 2017)

Delicagirl ......I share your pain  ...... but I am valiantly trying to wade through all this info, sorry, "electrical/power nightmare", and so far am thinking another 12v socket wired  direct from one of my 2 leisure batteries (which are also attached to a solar panel) .....sounds like a good idea.

I travel with a big power ace type thingy on the passenger seat and recharge phone/kindle/tablet/satnav/dvd player from that then charge that up when driving.....It also has a 240v socket, so has an inverter in it too.
I think what I really need to do is when I get my van serviced/mot'd next month I'm going to ask my friendly local m/home dealer to explain to me in simple language ......and write it down ! ....what all my electrical power gadgetry is actually doing and indeed is it all still working properly.......I'm ashamed to say I used to know, but I seem to have forgotten it all and my brain just doesn't seem to compute this complicated stuff any more.

I don't know if it's a long term blonde thing, old age creeping up, post op mushy brain or just that it's one of the things men are just SO much better at understanding, them being from another planet and all ......


----------



## jagmanx (Mar 2, 2017)

*Hands free phones are OK still ?*



El Veterano said:


> I would be very reluctant to use a smart phone as a sat-nav after reading the latest reports on the police cracking down on people using mobile 'phones whilst driving. What does everyone else think?



The phone will be mounted similar to a satnav using a suction mount.
Thus it is not being used as a phone..
If it rings My wife may(or maynot answer it).
If I wanted to use it I would get a hands free kit.
This is legal (but still a distraction).

Our usual plan is to stop soon and "ring back"

Some satnavs can link to a phone anyway using bluetooth


----------



## alcam (Mar 2, 2017)

El Veterano said:


> I would be very reluctant to use a smart phone as a sat-nav after reading the latest reports on the police cracking down on people using mobile 'phones whilst driving. What does everyone else think?



Sometimes use phone for sat nav but also use it for music . Clampdown will certainly make me extra careful


----------



## jagmanx (Mar 2, 2017)

*Thanks*



hairydog said:


> It is an offence to use a hand-held mobile phone when driving, no matter what you use it for (except making an emergency call). Even just checking the time qualifies you for a hefty fine and points on your licence.
> However, if the phone is not hand-held (it's in a holder fixed to the dash or windscreen, for example) you can legally use it to make and receive calls (use speakerphone if you don't have a bluetooth headset), as a satnav, or to play music. All legal.



Confirms what I believed.

I think that even hands free is a distraction (although legal).
Having "restructured" my ICT it maybe that the phone is more useful than my satnav for finding POIs

My latest laptop is USB3 only so I cannot upload POIs to my TomTom as it is USB2 only.
However for general use TOMTOM is VG.

But having dropped and broken my snapshot camera a decent phone will replace it and do more.

Phone photos handy with GPS on them


----------



## alwaysared (Mar 2, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Spend a few months using a Lenovo Thinkpad that cost 60% of the cost of you Apple toys, then you'd learn how good Chinese made laptops can be.



:yeahthat: Lenovo Thinkpad, now there's a  laptop  Almost every corporate place I've done work for use these, even BT and the ones who don't use Dell business grade laptops which are also very good, I'm typing on one now 

Regards,
Del


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## jagmanx (Mar 2, 2017)

*Yes Lenovo*



alwaysared said:


> :yeahthat: Lenovo Thinkpad, now there's a  laptop  Almost every corporate place I've done work for use these, even BT and the ones who don't use Dell business grade laptops which are also very good, I'm typing on one now
> 
> Regards,
> Del



They seem to be the best for quality and price...

I found an HP Stream device which in a sense is a mini laptop.
I pondered a Lenovo but the HP does what I want in the MH

For use in the MH it is great.
Small but decent screen size (13in)
and at less than £200 very good value.

It is not my main device I have a good desktop PC for home use.
I backup transfer/use/synch my data on USB hard Drives(x2) and the cloud.
The laptop enables me to transfer Dashcam footage to the External HDD.

The local data (mainly SSheets and email) is synched with the cloud and the external HDD


----------



## alwaysared (Mar 2, 2017)

jagmanx said:


> My latest laptop is USB3 only so I cannot upload POIs to my TomTom as it is USB2 only.



What happens when you connect your TomTom?
Do you get any error messages? 
USB 3 is meant to be backwards compatible, all my USB 2 things work in my USB 3 ports.

Regards,
Del


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## trevskoda (Mar 2, 2017)

alwaysared said:


> :yeahthat: Lenovo Thinkpad, now there's a  laptop  Almost every corporate place I've done work for use these, even BT and the ones who don't use Dell business grade laptops which are also very good, I'm typing on one now
> 
> Regards,
> Del



Lenova and dell offer there products with linux installed these days at a £100 cheaper as no licence required from dick turpin m/soft


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## jagmanx (Mar 2, 2017)

*Hi Del*



alwaysared said:


> What happens when you connect your TomTom?
> Do you get any error messages?
> USB 3 is meant to be backwards compatible, all my USB 2 things work in my USB 3 ports.
> 
> ...



In Thailand now.
Tom Tom, HP Stream, Safely locked in MH in UK.
I tried several times (and having managed a 400PC network in a school) I can usually get things to work.
however not this time ! Indeed when I loaded the sofware it seemed to "do funny things to my laptop configuration)

As I posted earlier I dropped my "minicamera" and it has gone to meet its maker.
My samsung Tablet (10in) is great but too big to use as a satnav and no screensuction mount
So new 5in smartphone (samsung) to do many jobs
1 Satnav with POI loaded (but also use TomTom) Mount alongside TomTom
2 Snapshot camera with GPS tagging
3 Hotspot to use my Tablet and laptop
4 Almost forgot .. a phone.
5 Dual sim so I can keep my Vodaphone no and use the second sim for Data (O2 or Three or EE or Giffgaff)

My existing phone is about 10 years old...just a phone !


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## alwaysared (Mar 2, 2017)

jagmanx said:


> In Thailand now.
> Tom Tom, HP Stream, Safely locked in MH in UK.
> I tried several times (and having managed a 400PC network in a school) I can usually get things to work.
> however not this time ! Indeed when I loaded the sofware it seemed to "do funny things to my laptop configuration)
> ...



I have a dual SIM Sony Xperia Z3 and it's a great phone. I've always had Samsung before but I struggled getting a dual SIM one.
Regarding your USB issue if you have access to a PC with USB 2 you could make sure that your Tom Tom firmware is up to date and check the HP website for a BIOS update and make sure you have the latest USB 3 drivers for your laptop. A search on Google would indicate that there seems to be an issue with Tom Tom and USB 3.

Regards,
Del


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## alwaysared (Mar 2, 2017)

El Veterano said:


> I would be very reluctant to use a smart phone as a sat-nav after reading the latest reports on the police cracking down on people using mobile 'phones whilst driving. What does everyone else think?



As  Jagmanx pointed out it's okay to use your smartphone as a SatNav so long as it's mounted on the windscreen and not in your hand. It's all explained here

Regards,
Del


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## Deleted member 9849 (Mar 2, 2017)

El Veterano said:


> I would be very reluctant to use a smart phone as a sat-nav after reading the latest reports on the police cracking down on people using mobile 'phones whilst driving. What does everyone else think?



An interesting point which seems to be a bit of a grey area.I think it's fine to use a smartphone when it's in a proper mount either on the dash or the windscreen,however as these navigation devices get progressively larger eg a phablet or tablet there may be a case of obstructing the windscreen. 

Sat-nav positioning on windscreens a 'safety threat'


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## Deleted member 13859 (Mar 3, 2017)

QFour said:


> Why bother with an inverter when the laptop runs of 12v all you are doing is adding to the complication and using far more power. CHEAP 12v Cigar sockets are to blame they are absolutely useless for powering equipment that needs a little extra power. Best one to buy is a Hella socket and plug to match they are rated at 10 amps which is more than enough. The nice thing about the Hella plug is its a tight fit and has multiple prongs round the side which give it a positive lock.
> 
> View attachment 51210
> 
> ...



ive got two of these in my van, La Strada which I understand is a German Outfit, I have made up a pigtail with a female cigarette plug on the end so i shouldnt have any problems with overloading the normal cigarette lighter socket.
tranivanman


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## installer (Mar 4, 2017)

alwaysared said:


> This plug and socket may be better than a standard cigarette lighter socket.
> 
> Regards,
> Del



Yes we have these fitted, a much more positive connection than the cigarette lighter type.

Also my BMW motorbike has two of the Hella/Din sockets fitted obviously you have to change the plug on the item to suit.


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## Tezza (Mar 4, 2017)

Have used 1 of these for the last 3 years for our iPads. Suction has never let us down. And now we have the huge dashboard on the Hymer luckily the guy who had it before had a small Perspex plate fitted so it attaches to that and not the screen.


360°Dashboard Car Windshield Mount Holder Cradle Stand for iPad-2 3 4 | eBay


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## delicagirl (Apr 11, 2017)

Hello everyone  - i have had to focus on my penultimate uni essay for several weeks, hence my lack of time for van matters....   however as a result of all the advice on here and my research locally - taking the van round to a variety of   auto electricians until i found a specialist 4x4  knowledgeable guyt who was keen to work on it, and  i  have decided to do the following :-

As you may all recall i have 3 leisure batteries  (2 directly strapped together and one separate and all on a relay to the engine battery) and they are all difference voltages. 


To start simply i am going to reduce the number of batteries and stay with my existing 100A solar panel for this summer and see how i get on. 

i have bought a new laptop battery with  50% more power capacity and i will primarily use the laptop on its own battery whenever possible and will only charge the laptop when on the move.


I have also  decided to replace the current three leisure batteries with two 110Am Alpha batteries and still retain the relay so that they are linked to the engine battery as well.   My local auto electrician has taken on board many of the ideas presented here, and is going to tidy up the wiring from the solar controller using a better quality wire, and replace my USB socket with a better quality one, and hard-wire my laptop directly to the battery. AndyJanet has kindly replaced some of my older power-hungry lights.

Finally and especially for Alf...  Andyjanet discovered exactly what the "big yellow transformer box" was for -  it was, as Alf thought, a 110v transformer for the 240/110/gas fridge  (the van was made in japan and originally wired for japanese 110 volt sockets which i have never used).   I don't use my fridge hardly at all, and so I decided to  have the yellow transformer box taken it out -  (it weighs a ton so i have a bit more payload !!) At a later date if i do decide to use the fridge i can always use it on gas, or on electric if i stop at a campsite. 

My long summer trip will test this new configuration, and if i find that i do need more solar energy coming in, then i can add a second solar panel and a third leisure battery in the autumn.    

But, fingers crossed this new configuration will work a great deal more effectively than before. 

Many thanks to all who, in spite of their frustrations at my slow learning curve on all this, have continued to offer advice and information.


----------



## bentleysontour (Apr 11, 2017)

Debs said:


> I've just read through all this thread, and I also now have a a headache.......c:



lol....me too, I'm going to bed goodnight!


----------



## bentleysontour (Apr 11, 2017)

Admin said:


> I am sorry but that is incorrect. Apple hardware is pretty much the best that money can buy. I have been a Mac user for many years and have never had one fail or wear out on me. Many five year old Macbooks are better than the laptops that you can buy today.
> 
> Apple products are at the cutting edge of technology. They make these innovations then others copy them.
> 
> ...



Spot on. My oldest Mac Book is 2008, and it still works a treat , ive had a new drive for it and a new keyboard, and there customer service is second to none. Bought in the US and they still fix it in this country for free. I also have 2 x 27 inch desktops, an ipad, and of course an IPhone.Amazing stuff....And I think Steve Jobs was an amazing man!!! lol.....


----------



## Tezza (Apr 11, 2017)

sparrks said:


> imacs along with Macbooks since changing to Intel processors share probably 90% of the computing hardware as PCs. Apple like adding a few propitiatory touches to this hardware whilst they may improve the hardware slightly they will improve Apple's profit margin. A lot of their products are not very 'green' as they are not readily upgradeable, try upgrading the memory and a lot of the time it will be soldered on.
> 
> Most people when comparing Macs to PCs never seem to compare like for like ie a macbook pro up against a £500 Laptop - no contest. The software is a lot better than
> 
> ...




I dont think you can work out profit by just using using manufacturing costs. Last year Apple spent $10 billion on R+D .To stay ahead of the game takes a lot. And I don't think that includes the purchase of other companies. Siri for example.
Apple R&D Spending Up Nearly 30% | Time.com


edit.....plus the 20% vat.


----------



## trevskoda (Apr 11, 2017)

bentleysontour said:


> Spot on. My oldest Mac Book is 2008, and it still works a treat , ive had a new drive for it and a new keyboard, and there customer service is second to none. Bought in the US and they still fix it in this country for free. I also have 2 x 27 inch desktops, an ipad, and of course an IPhone.Amazing stuff....And I think Steve Jobs was an amazing man!!! lol.....



Strange thing is they use a very old linux curnel ,unix,i would rather us a free up to date linux distro on any computor laptop etc.


----------



## mark61 (Apr 11, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Strange thing is they use a very old linux curnel ,unix,i would rather us a free up to date linux distro on any computor laptop etc.




OSX predates Linux by a few years.


----------



## bentleysontour (Apr 11, 2017)

El Veterano said:


> I would be very reluctant to use a smart phone as a sat-nav after reading the latest reports on the police cracking down on people using mobile 'phones whilst driving. What does everyone else think?



Ive got this thing in my van I cant even remember what its called, but it looks like a sat nav kind of thing, but when you connect your iPhone via bluetooth all your apps appear on the screen. I think its called Apple Car Play or something like that, so rather than just be looking at any of your apps on the iPhone they will be on a big screen infront of you...Great idea i think, so i can have maps.me , or messenger, WhatsApp anything !


----------



## Tezza (Apr 11, 2017)

Not really



[FONT=q_serif]OSX is based on NeXTStep, the operating system for [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]NeXT Computer[/FONT][FONT=q_serif], a company Steve Jobs founded in 1988 after he left Apple. NeXTStep was BSD 4.3 Unix implemented on a Mach microkernel. When Apple bought NeXT and made Jobs the CEO again, he brought in the NeXT team to fix the badly broken Mac 9 operating system, which used cooperative rather than preemptive multitasking and was not fully 32 bit. They effectively virtualized the old Mac OS, implementing the Cocoa layer to deal with the system calls that weren't 32 bit clean and hiding the old-fashioned multitasking inside virtual boxes. [/FONT]

[FONT=q_serif]So not only does the core of OSX predate Linux by several years, it was more technically sophisticated and advanced for a long time as well.[/FONT]


----------



## Tezza (Apr 11, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Strange thing is they use a very old linux curnel ,unix,i would rather us a free up to date linux distro on any computor laptop etc.



XNU - Wikipedia


----------



## andyjanet (Apr 13, 2017)

well thanks!!!!
 you lot have turned a really useful thread about inverters into a bun fight about operating systems that only you are interested in, if you want to talk about linux line dancing whatever it is your arguing about start another thread with that title so we all don't keep seeing another reply on collettes inverter thread and dip in to see if its information we need. HAPPY EASTER, ANDY


----------



## Fletch6 (Apr 13, 2017)

.


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## sparrks (Apr 13, 2017)

*XNU* is the computer operating system kernel developed at Apple Inc. since *December 1996* for use in the macOS operating system and released as free and open-source software as part of the Darwin operating system. It is also used as the kernel for the iOS, tvOS, and watchOS operating systems. 

This article is about the operating system. *Linux* (pronounced 

[SUP]i[/SUP]/ˈlɪnəks/ _*LIN*-əks_[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP] or, less frequently, /ˈlaɪnəks/ _*LYN*-əks_[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP]) is a Unix-like computer operating system assembled under the model of free and open-source software development and distribution. The defining component of Linux is the Linux kernel,[SUP][12][/SUP] an operating system kernel *first released on September 17, 1991* by Linus Torvalds.[SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP] The Free Software Foundation uses the name _GNU/Linux_ to describe the operating system, which has led to some controversy.


Looks to me that Linux the OS  predates iOS by about 5 years.


----------



## andyjanet (Apr 13, 2017)

sparrks said:


> *XNU* is the computer operating system kernel developed at Apple Inc. since *December 1996* for use in the macOS operating system and released as free and open-source software as part of the Darwin operating system. It is also used as the kernel for the iOS, tvOS, and watchOS operating systems.
> 
> This article is about the operating system. *Linux* (pronounced
> 
> ...




Hmmm written in a thread about inverters     Yet I don't see the word inverter used once, I am going to get a Linux to power my toaster it seems they are better than sliced bread


----------



## sparrks (Apr 13, 2017)

andyjanet said:


> Hmmm written in a thread about inverters     Yet I don't see the word inverter used once, I am going to get a Linux to power my toaster it seems they are better than sliced bread



I use a small 12-20v inverter to power my tablet which is Android.


----------



## Tezza (Apr 14, 2017)

hairydog said:


> And every other operating system is based on an earlier system. Means nothing.
> 
> The fact is that the statement that OSX was first is simply the opposite of the truth.


Read it anyway you like. Facts say different.


edit...I will just put here again

[FONT=q_serif]OSX is based on NeXTStep, the operating system for [/FONT][FONT=q_serif]NeXT Computer[/FONT][FONT=q_serif], a company Steve Jobs founded in 1988 after he left Apple. NeXTStep was BSD 4.3 Unix implemented on a Mach microkernel. When Apple bought NeXT and made Jobs the CEO again, he brought in the NeXT team to fix the badly broken Mac 9 operating system, which used cooperative rather than preemptive multitasking and was not fully 32 bit. They effectively virtualized the old Mac OS, implementing the Cocoa layer to deal with the system calls that weren't 32 bit clean and hiding the old-fashioned multitasking inside virtual boxes. [/FONT]

[FONT=q_serif]So not only does the core of OSX predate Linux by several years, it was more technically sophisticated and advanced for a long time as well.

and again......not only does the core of  OSX predate Linux by several years ...............

edit 2 .......so has Linux not been changed in 20 odd years? Is it not based on an earlier version? Hmmmmm how many different chocolate bars has Linux had?[/FONT]


----------



## delicagirl (May 3, 2017)

so just to update everyone.....   i have now replaced two different amped leisure batteries with two new leisure 110amp Alpha batteries.  The wiring has been redone to connect the batteries to the electrical/solar system,  (both batteries' cables  are now fused)  my laptop has been hardwired to the new leisure battery (with a switch and a fuse and a USB socket) and andyjanet replaced some lighting for me. 

and up to now the new batteries are behaving impeccably....  on EHU i charged them up a little bit after installation and got them up to  14.5v  whilst the engine was running, and two hours later they were  13v and the most important thing for me is that they are not losing power .....    they have been  13v now for   48 hours and the solar panel is reading its maxim....    

so i am one happy bunny right now.....  i am off in the van in 10 days time and the final test will be when i am out in the wilds of ROI  ....

so all the advice and help you guys and gals gave me earlier on seems to have borne fruit. 

i also have a slightly higher payload now because andyjanet  has removed  -  the heavy yellow 110v electrical converter, and my local electrical guy removed a very heavy 240v inverter, and one leisure battery.

onwards  !!!!


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