# Turbo Diesel Advice



## EMPTAGE123 (Jul 3, 2017)

Hi, can anyone give me some advice, I have a 1993 Burstner Motorhome, 2.5 Turbo Diesel, it has always struggled with power when going up hill, I thought nothing of this until I mentioned it to a friend of mine who said there could be something wrong with the Turbo actuator, I took it to a Turbo specialist who said the actuator was fine but the impellar wasn't working properly and they could replace it, I paid £300 for the part & labour, I took it for a test run and there is no difference in power, they said the Air Filter could be blocked I have had it checked and its fine, before I go back to the company can anyone give me any other advice as to what it might be, Many thanks Tanya.


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## trevskoda (Jul 3, 2017)

If it was revving out through the gears except top then the turbo was ok,diesels do not run like petrol engines and the power/torque band is in the first rpm quarter where as petrol engines have it in the top quarter and little pull low down.


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## mossypossy (Jul 3, 2017)

Check out the intercooler (if indeed it has one). Could be leaking air between the metal fin casing and the black plastic bottom. Will cause a big loss of turbo efficiency.
New intercooler is about £60.


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## john1974 (Jul 3, 2017)

if it has an IC and you can find it you can also check the pipe from it to engine (usually a large rubber pipe) is becoming hard when the revs go up..when you squeeze it

this sort of tells you the turbo is working and the air filter is ok and so on.. if the turbo is working then maybe the fuelling isn't .. i.e. the engine isn't getting more fuel when turbo is giving more air (charge) ..

it's late but hope that makes some sense.. whereabouts are you ?


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## EMPTAGE123 (Jul 3, 2017)

Hi, thanks for the reply, it's a basic Turbo set up no inter cooler fitted, only one pipe from the air filter to the turbo pipes ok, Engine runs fine, just dead slow up hill, I'm in Rochdale Lancashire.


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## john1974 (Jul 3, 2017)

ok .. maybe just take the air filter out and try it up a nearby hill..? 

also. if you blip throttle you ought to here a feint sound..like a whine or whistle from turbo .. 

was the van once faster up hills ?


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## EMPTAGE123 (Jul 3, 2017)

C an hear Turbo slight whistling, can also see it spinning when pipe removed, just doesn't seem to have enough pressure to activate the actuator arm as it does not move, but can be moved freely by hand, it has always been slow up hill


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## craig9760 (Jul 4, 2017)

make sure the boost pipe from pump to turbo in not slit or come of, as this will not tell the pump to  boost more diesel to the turbo when needed
:wave:


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## eddyt (Jul 4, 2017)

*power*

hi
  you could adjust fuel delivery screw on the injection pump. will give more
 power but increase the smoke out exhaust.


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## Deleted member 52918 (Jul 4, 2017)

Is the actuator operated by vacuum? if yes, then check the pipe that is connected to the top/bottom of the actuator & all the wee small pipes that could be chaffed & have small holes in, check the brake servo hose, if it has them then check the N18/N75 turbo actuation valves, the wires & vacuum pipes.

Phill


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## EMPTAGE123 (Jul 4, 2017)

Hi the Turbo is vacuum non electric, it only has 1 hose going to it and thats ok, Tanya.


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## Chris356 (Jul 4, 2017)

Hi we had a 1994 hymer with the same engine and can confirm that with engine pulling around 3.5 ton it was very slow on hills think they are about 80bhp ours was Collum gear change


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## EMPTAGE123 (Jul 4, 2017)

Hi, our Burstner is 3.5 ton unladen,  up to 5 ton fully loaded, perhaps the Turbo is working as it should, but it really is slow on a hill, I think our record was about 19mph with 20 other vehicles behind us in France, as I've only ever driven ours I have nothing to compare it with, I would feel better if it was the norm for this kind of vehicle, Tanya.


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## Chris356 (Jul 5, 2017)

yes some of them hills through france are killers our transit which is 6 speed was down to 4th gear 50mph on some and even 40mph on some of the tight and twisty ones. make sure you switch the heaters to hot and fan switched on full on the hills it will help on cooling the engine


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## bellars (Jul 5, 2017)

Our 1998 3.5 tonne Burstner with the same engine struggles up hills so I think it is normal, I thought about getting the engine remapped but not sure about any negative impact.


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## mossypossy (Jul 5, 2017)

So what is the definitive way to drive a turbo diesel?
I presume like on my car the turbo will only kick in above a certain rev limit?

Keep the revs 2000 and above and never go up any incline in 5th?


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## Deleted member 52918 (Jul 5, 2017)

WARNING, do not do this until the engine has warmed up to normal operating temperature!!

A diesel likes to rev, so after warm up & depending on road conditions, speed cameras etc, stick it in second & very carefully, (as some vehicles may have enough power to wheel spin in lower gears), give it the berries until the rev counter hits about 4000 rpm.

If you do this once every trip, you'll keep the engine cleaner & better able to breath.

Phill


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## runnach (Jul 5, 2017)

Reading the comments, I suspect that the engine is behaving normally for this vehicle. The turbo set up is very basic i.e no intercooler. So in effect a couple of things to consider.

Boost pressure on a non intercooled turbo increases the temperature of the air which in effect expands so therefore the charge not as efficient an IC cools the air so gives a denser charge of air.

Another consideration is on a mountain in France you are already a decent height in most places above sea level therefore the air is not as dense anyway some normally aspirated engines struggle with this, like ourselves suffer from the lack of oxygen,

On a plus side, most engines ex stock leave the factory in an understressed configuration and as someone has mentioned re mapping can provide significant increase in power. The power doesn't necessarily translate to speed but with diesels increases torque which makes for less gear changing etc, Especially useful if you are close to the Maximum weights carrying the kitchen sink etc 

Assuming there are no splits in vacuum pipes etc considering a re map may help 

Channa


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## Deleted member 37170 (Jul 5, 2017)

In 1993, diesel engines were no where near as efficient as they are now. The 2.5 Diesel engines in most motor homes in those days were almost always slow pullers up hill. My old coach built was just the same, wouldn't pull you out of bed. Remember what you are driving is almost as aero dynamic as a concrete block. Your MH is behaving quite normal. My 2.2 Citroen 2004 relay based van drives the same as my car, easily does 70 MPH and flies up hills and away from roundabouts.  It's just new technology, soon to be outlawed by the green brigade.


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## Canalsman (Jul 6, 2017)

bellars said:


> Our 1998 3.5 tonne Burstner with the same engine struggles up hills so I think it is normal, I thought about getting the engine remapped but not sure about any negative impact.



Remapping a 1993 engine won't be possible. There won't be any ECU on an engine of that age ...


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## maingate (Jul 6, 2017)

Maybe your injectors are as old as the van. You could get them tested.

I would not recommend revving an old engine to 4,000 RPM under load. MOT Testers had to be very careful revving older diesels when doing emission tests in the past. They were limited to 4,000 RPM for a very short time.


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## Deleted member 52918 (Jul 6, 2017)

maingate said:


> Maybe your injectors are as old as the van. You could get them tested.
> 
> I would not recommend revving an old engine to 4,000 RPM under load. MOT Testers had to be very careful revving older diesels when doing emission tests in the past. They were limited to 4,000 RPM for a very short time.



I agree that when the diesel mot emissions test was first implemented, there were problems because they were revving cold engines, that's why they now have to check the oil temp before they do it.

Phill


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## IanH (Jul 6, 2017)

Personally, having read above, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, the vehicle is simply underpowered for its weight

Froggie, now sadly gone was non turbo, 2.5 litre diesel, some 76BHP, 3 tonnes max weight, now, come on, did you expect it to be used for drag racing.......................!!!!!:lol-053:


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## GWAYGWAY (Jul 6, 2017)

It is just a low powered engine, change gear more often as it is not at peak torque,, probably a high ratio gearbox in a pursuit of  better fuel consumption. Just drop a cog or two if it lags that is how it works, imagine having 6 gears and a high and low ratio  to change in between each  cog, just to keep it going.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Jul 6, 2017)

Try giving the poor auld beastie a drink of REDEX DIESEL ... I regularly dose my Renault Trafic (and add 250ml of 2-stroke oil) and as I keep a careful check on MPG I always see the improvement every time.

I used to use an app for checking my mileage, but now I just keep a record of it in Excel, as you can see from the figures, every time the MPG starts to drop away and I put in the additives, the MPG jumps back up as the injectors get cleaned.




The general overall loss in MPG is due to my conversion and the increased weight of the van, also the roof rack drag.

The formulae are easy enough to work out, but if anyone wants a copy of a blank Excel sheet as above with the formulae etc, just ask ... the older version used to include where I bought the fuel (Superemarket, esso etc., but I found it made little difference to the MPG.)


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## IanH (Jul 7, 2017)

Auld Pharrrt said:


> Try giving the poor auld beastie a drink of REDEX DIESEL ... I regularly dose my Renault Trafic (and add 250ml of 2-stroke oil) and as I keep a careful check on MPG I always see the improvement every time.
> 
> I used to use an app for checking my mileage, but now I just keep a record of it in Excel, as you can see from the figures, every time the MPG starts to drop away and I put in the additives, the MPG jumps back up as the injectors get cleaned.
> 
> ...



Good App

My Yorkshire wife ( where £5 is an ENORMOUS sum of money) has a similar app in a wee notebook and biro in her glovebox!!

You get good MPG BTW!


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## witzend (Jul 7, 2017)

The 2.5 was always like that Probably the reason it was discontinued and the 2.8 introduced.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Jul 7, 2017)

IanH said:


> Good App
> 
> My Yorkshire wife ( where £5 is an ENORMOUS sum of money) has a similar app in a wee notebook and biro in her glovebox!!
> 
> You get good MPG BTW!



I'm only about 20 miles form the A9 at Dunkeld and I seldom go into town (Perth) almost never go to cities so most of my journeys are less than 2 miles to Tesco and back or 32 miles to Perth and back ... apart from that I am normally wandering open roads with little traffic and being an ex trucker I appreciate how much fuel you waste every time you touch your brakes.


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## mossypossy (Jul 7, 2017)

Will be interesting to see what effect on fuel consumption on the 2.8 idTD will be AFTER the split intercooler was fixed.

Yet to have a big run out.


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## molly 2 (Jul 8, 2017)

At that age the turbo could be worn out and very inefficient .


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## maingate (Jul 8, 2017)

Auld Pharrrt said:


> Try giving the poor auld beastie *a drink of REDEX DIESEL* ... I regularly dose my Renault Trafic (and *add 250ml of 2-stroke oil)* and as I keep a careful check on MPG I always see the improvement every time.
> 
> I used to use an app for checking my mileage, but now I just keep a record of it in Excel, as you can see from the figures, every time the MPG starts to drop away and I put in the additives, the MPG jumps back up as the injectors get cleaned.
> 
> ...



I did the same with my 2.8 JTD, never missed a beat in 5 years. Mind you, I only put 100 ml of semi synthetic 2 Stroke Oil in ...... but I did treat it to Shell V-Power diesel now and again.


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## tidewatcher (Jul 8, 2017)

*Turbo wear*

Surely the only things that can wear on a turbo are the bearings and seals. If the bearings are good then the seals should last. Nothing else is a contact part so as long as the oil is changed regularly and the turbo is not spun up due to excess engine revs when the oil is cold or the throttle blipped on shut down it should last.  Remember air temperature, altitude and humidity all alter the engine efficiency. I recently thought my turbo on a 1.9 was failing, checked all connections, tried the "puff factor" by removing a pressure pipe. I then took her for a run on a cooler day and it was a different vehicle!


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