# Camper van concerns raised in Northumberland coastal village



## cdmoreear (Jul 20, 2020)

Just in case you are considering going - not so sure we are welcome.

Campervan Concerns


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## izwozral (Jul 20, 2020)

If no bylaws have been infringed and they are parked on a public highway, what's the problem?

Does seem like nimbyism to me.


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## maingate (Jul 20, 2020)

Overnighting has never been allowed on the Beach car park, there are signs to that effect.


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## Debroos (Jul 20, 2020)

The only reason given for wanting to ban them was that it was 'a cheap overnight stay for them'. We can't have that now can we!


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## Fisherman (Jul 20, 2020)

Looks like the nimbys are taking over.
Have these people not got lives to lead, or are they intent on stopping others from leading theirs. Far to much of this going on.
This has to stop.


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## alwaysared (Jul 20, 2020)

maingate said:


> Overnighting has never been allowed on the Beach car park, there are signs to that effect.


Why would you want to stay if it says not to park overnight? Ignoring this notice only brings attention to us all and then they start to look at ways to stop it elsewhere in the area.  

Regards,
Del


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## izwozral (Jul 20, 2020)

alwaysared said:


> Why would you want to stay if it says not to park overnight? Ignoring this notice only brings attention to us all and then they start to look at ways to stop it elsewhere in the area.
> 
> Regards,
> Del



I probably wouldn't stay where I'm not wanted but I still see it as nimbyism, a bit like 'how dare they park outside my house'.


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## maingate (Jul 20, 2020)

alwaysared said:


> Why would you want to stay if it says not to park overnight? Ignoring this notice only brings attention to us all and then they start to look at ways to stop it elsewhere in the area.
> 
> Regards,
> Del



Because it seems these days that many motorhomes are bought by morons, although selfishness seems to be generally rife in Society nowadays. 

Large on the spot Fines might be a good idea. Or, it would not cost much money to install a camera similar to those used in Supermarket car parks to prove overnight stays and then a Fine popping through the letter box.


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## alwaysared (Jul 20, 2020)

izwozral said:


> I probably wouldn't stay where I'm not wanted but I still see it as nimbyism, a bit like 'how dare they park outside my house'.


I was refering to the beach car park notice. I think your right about the street parking and I also see no reason to visit places where I'm not welcome, the problem is the list is growing fast   

Regards,
Del


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## jagmanx (Jul 20, 2020)

Stayed there in 2014 for 1 night
Only 1 or 2 others
Loads of room.

I asked at the entrance and paid the parking fee and asked about overnighting ?
The person on the gate said I should not overight but with "a nod and a wink"

With similar places the problems are caused (IMO) by

Too many campers
Camping rather than just staying
Staying too long
Other inconsiderate behaviour
Normally if there aare signs saying no overnighting we move on but the "Nod and Wink" together with the space etc encouraged us to stay one night

As with all the many examples of bad camping it is the volume of campers combined with the lack of facilities which rightly cause indignation.

However if locals/councils want tourism they need to provide facilities and collect (sensible) fees !

Losing it as an overnight is not good but it is also a nice "daytime spot" aand just a short walk to the town.
Looking at the POI map I belive th nearby LR is a different spot albeit near

I roundly curse height barriers and the like which prevent most of us parking up for the day ! or even just for a lunch-time stop.

Back to Alnmouth It seems that the beach car park may be the only available area for day parking
We stopped near here








						Alnmouth to Gwen's Ice cream van
					






					goo.gl


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## Fisherman (Jul 20, 2020)

alwaysared said:


> I was refering to the beach car park notice. I think your right about the street parking and I also see no reason to visit places where I'm not welcome, the problem is the list is growing fast
> 
> Regards,
> Del



Exactly the list is growing fast, and that’s  why those remaining are at times overused. It does not take a genius to work out that more vans each year, and less places to park creates problems. But when we have folk on here advocating using expensive CCTV to catch someone staying somewhere for the night, instead of dealing with the issue, I reckon we are well and truly knackered.


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## 2cv (Jul 20, 2020)

How strange, we were just looking at visiting Alnmouth as we pass today, but have been put off by this and the £7 parking charge for motorhomes as opposed to £2 for cars. My money will instead be spent in a local business elsewhere.


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## Fisherman (Jul 20, 2020)

2cv said:


> How strange, we were just looking at visiting Alnmouth as we pass today, but have been put off by this and the £7 parking charge for motorhomes as opposed to £2 for cars. My money will instead be spent in a local business elsewhere.



Ah but car drivers spend more money, never leave a mess, always clean up after their dogs, never get drunk and loud, and don't do handbrake turns in a car park at night. Do they Bill, maybe install CCTV to catch them


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## jagmanx (Jul 20, 2020)

Exactly £7 extortion!
 £2 for cars is cheap 
If £2 for cars I would pay £4 for a vevicle which takes up 2 spaces
But like you Bill £7 = bye Bye !

Make it simple £3 for cars £5 for motorhomes or Car + trailer


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## witzend (Jul 20, 2020)

Debroos said:


> The only reason given for wanting to ban them was that it was 'a cheap overnight stay for them'. We can't have that now can we!


Very probably spoken by someone with a vested interest a campsite owner maybe


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## jagmanx (Jul 20, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Ah but car drivers spend more money, never leave a mess, always clean up after their dogs, never get drunk and loud, and do handbrake turns in a car park at night. Do they 2cv, maybe install CCTV to catch them


Poor car owners have nowhere to keep their rubbish !   Too difficult to open the boot!
Looking onGoogle Satellite there were 200-250 vehicles on site maybe 2x MoHo  and 2  x Stealth vehicles
@£2 a hit  I suggest there is enough to pay for attendants and rubbish disposal facilities (for the car occupants ONLY of course !)
How much does the Ice-cream Van pay ?


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## yorkslass (Jul 20, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Looks like the nimbys are taking over.
> Have these people not got lives to lead, or are they intent on stopping others from leading theirs. Far to much of this going on.
> This has to stop.


They are......because of covid they may have spent more time at home
Unfortunately one motorhome looks much like another to most folk, so i stay one night and leave the following day to be replaced by someone else in a white box on wheels.
As for the difference in parking charges, it's discrimination but this has been going on for ages with the erection of height barriers. Where i live and pay council tax I can't park in a council owned car park because of height barriers.


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## Dezi (Jul 20, 2020)

Well thats opened my eyes.

I had no idea that folk lived that far norf !!!

Dezi


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## maingate (Jul 20, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Exactly the list is growing fast, and that’s  why those remaining are at times overused. It does not take a genius to work out that more vans each year, and less places to park creates problems. But when we have folk on here advocating using expensive CCTV to catch someone staying somewhere for the night, instead of dealing with the issue, I reckon we are well and truly knackered.



I have been knackered for a long time. I am not some newcomer to wilding and nearly all of the spots we used are long gone. That is why I wild much less these days and it means I am now paying to overnight. That has cost me a lot of money over the years due to idiots buying motorhomes.

The only thing worse than these idiots are the whingeing motorhomers who complain all the time but don't get off their arse to do anything about it except complain. Like you.


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## trevskoda (Jul 20, 2020)

When all liberty is lost it is only ever restored at the end of a gun barrel.


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## Nabsim (Jul 20, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> When all liberty is lost it is only ever restored at the end of a gun barrel.


Freedom for Tooting


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## Fisherman (Jul 20, 2020)

maingate said:


> I have been knackered for a long time. I am not some newcomer to wilding and nearly all of the spots we used are long gone. That is why I wild much less these days and it means I am now paying to overnight. That has cost me a lot of money over the years due to idiots buying motorhomes.
> 
> The only thing worse than these idiots are the whingeing motorhomers who complain all the time but don't get off their arse to do anything about it except complain. Like you.



so you reckon I have done nothing about it.
Well you just keep telling yourself that. 
You obviously reckon that anyone who thinks differently is an idiot. We are all idiots apart from maingate.


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## caledonia (Jul 20, 2020)

maingate said:


> I have been knackered for a long time. I am not some newcomer to wilding and nearly all of the spots we used are long gone. That is why I wild much less these days and it means I am now paying to overnight. That has cost me a lot of money over the years due to idiots buying motorhomes.
> 
> The only thing worse than these idiots are the whingeing motorhomers who complain all the time but don't get off their arse to do anything about it except complain. Like you.


Well said that man.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 20, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> Poor car owners have nowhere to keep their rubbish !   Too difficult to open the boot!
> Looking onGoogle Satellite there were 200-250 vehicles on site maybe 2x MoHo  and 2  x Stealth vehicles
> @£2 a hit I suggest there is enough to pay for attendants and rubbish disposal facilities (for the car occupants ONLY of course !)
> How much does the Ice-cream Van pay ?



More than likely  several thousands of £s per year for the contract.


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## maureenandtom (Jul 20, 2020)

And yet ...

there is no suggestion that any resident has complained.   Only that the odd coucillor has seen overnght parking happening.   It seems it worries him = but he hasn't said any resident is worried about it.    I have a suspicion that there will have been no complaints.

Though asked to investigate - nor have the Burgage Holders complained.    I'd not heard of burgages before and it's  interesting to google the term.  This might be nothing to do wiht the council at all.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgage or https://burgageholders.co.uk/

This could be really interesting.


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## Dezi (Jul 20, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> When all liberty is lost it is only ever restored at the end of a gun barrel.


Oi Trev, cut out the philosophy and stick to the dirty jokes.

Dezi


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 20, 2020)

Alnmouth. 

Very pretty place, but imagine it to be mostly occupied these days by a fair proportion of incomers.

I love the comment (not!):- "It’s obviously a problem and it’s something we’ve got to keep an eye on because it’s a cheap overnight stay for them.”

Why is is 'obviously a problem'? Simply because it's a 'cheap overnight stay'?! That's not really a problem, is it? Unless there is other anti-social behaviour at play, of which there is no mention in the article, so I would seriously doubt that is the case as the local press wouldn't have missed a golden opportunity to mention it.

So, nimbyism would seem to be a fair bet with this situation.

According to members' previous comments in this thread it's now £7 to park up for a motorhome in the beach car park, so it's not exactly a freebie whichever way you look at it.

The parish councillor making all the comments quoted in the article has an art gallery (online only) and lives in Alnmouth himself.

I have roughly penned a letter to them about this, with the intention of copying in appropriate bods at the County Council, but hanging fire just now as not sure whether it will be a help or a hindrance for us...

Maybe need to do a bit more digging into the other parish councillors first. There may very well be someone with a vested interest in not wanting us parked anywhere outside a designated commercial campsite. Or there might not.

Could be that they just want people to follow the rules. If it says no overnighting it usually means no overnighting.
Could well just be a handful of covidiots new to motor homing who haven't got a clue, or are just selfish gits normally.


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

maingate said:


> Overnighting has never been allowed on the Beach car park, there are signs to that effect.



But are the signs legal as when you read the article on the link it seems no laws have been broken BUT as usual they now want to put up a gate and are awaiting to see if planning permission is required.Another case of you cant stay for free overnight so F"' oFF


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Exactly the list is growing fast, and that’s  why those remaining are at times overused. It does not take a genius to work out that more vans each year, and less places to park creates problems. But when we have folk on here advocating using expensive CCTV to catch someone staying somewhere for the night, instead of dealing with the issue, I reckon we are well and truly knackered.



And Fisherman this year due to this  Pandemic many are buying Motorhomes and campervans and will follow like sheep anyone they see parked for free somewhere,and join them.Pressure is then placed on Nimby councillors to quickly ban us.Why cant they provide areas cheaply to accomodate us.? Not camping sites but for instance a field or disused piece of land.Its not rocket science.


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

yorkslass said:


> They are......because of covid they may have spent more time at home
> Unfortunately one motorhome looks much like another to most folk, so i stay one night and leave the following day to be replaced by someone else in a white box on wheels.
> As for the difference in parking charges, it's discrimination but this has been going on for ages with the erection of height barriers. Where i live and pay council tax I can't park in a council owned car park because of height barriers.



So get onto your Council tell them the extravagant amount you pay in Council Tax and get them to explain why you cant get your vehicle in.If we all stopped paying CT what could they do(another topic im sure)


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 20, 2020)

Well apart from the chairman who sells art online (and I think may either own or be involved with the Old School Gallery?), one other member is owner of the Red Lion Inn and 2 members are *Burbage Holders*.

Alnmouth Common:-

"Commons are one of our ancient institutions, older by far than even Parliament or the Monarchy and are a legacy from the time when much of our land was wild and used “in common”.

There are 96 commons in Northumberland but there are more than 8500 in England and Wales; they cover a total area of more than 500.000 hectares.

In Alnmouth, the ancient common rights date from the 12th century and attach by law and title to some of the properties in the village, the owners of these properties are the Burgage Holders – today’s peasantry. Although the manorial system gave the commons legal owners, the peasantry kept their customary rights to share in the produce – grazing for their stock, wood for their fires etc.

_*The common is managed by a committee of Burgage Holders whose main aims are to safe guard and conserve the natural beauty of the common for future generations and to manage natural habitat for wild life*, we welcome visitors to explore the main paths and tracks where you can enjoy watching the ever changing moods of the North Sea from strategically placed benches and picnic tables, or use our reasonably priced car park to leave your car and take the scenic walk to the village with it’s many amenities_".


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 20, 2020)

...and an extract from an article a few weeks ago about the beach car park.

"The car park, between the golf course and beach by the boat houses, has been closed since March due to the coronavirus pandemic.
*It is operated by the village burgage holders* and talks have been held with the parish council on what steps to take now that lockdown restrictions have been eased.
Coun Shaun Whyte, parish council chairman, said: “The burgage holders are very keen that we provide a united view as to when the car park should open. I would absolutely welcome that cooperation with the parish council in coming to a decision."

I guess the car park money raised goes towards their conservation efforts, which sounds reasonable?

The whole article is here and helps get a sense of the bigger picture:-

https://www.northumberlandgazette.c...emains-closed-despite-easing-lockdown-2856257

@mickymost - don't think non-payment of council tax would affect this particular situation? 

It's the Burgage Holders you have to get on side


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 20, 2020)

mickymost said:


> But are the signs legal as when you read the article on the link it seems no laws have been broken BUT as usual they now want to put up a gate and are awaiting to see if planning permission is required.Another case of you cant stay for free overnight so F"' oFF



I don't think the car park belongs to the council, but I could be wrong...


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 20, 2020)

There's even a short, 38 second video about The Burgage Holder’s of Alnmouth Common, if anyone's interested ...


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## Fisherman (Jul 20, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Alnmouth.
> 
> Very pretty place, but imagine it to be mostly occupied these days by a fair proportion of incomers.
> 
> ...



Marie do you have the email address. I cannot find it. I would like to send them a message


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## witzend (Jul 20, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> There's even a short, 38 second video about The Burgage Holder’s of Alnmouth Common, if anyone's interested ...



Never clear cut is it in Video it said Common Land




__





						Common land and village greens
					

Common land, village greens and right to roam - find out your rights




					www.gov.uk


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 20, 2020)

clerk@alnmouthparishcouncil.org.uk

At the risk  of insulting your intelligence, don't go in there all guns blazing...
I think gentle persuasion and a good, strong argument about why they should be making us welcome is perhaps a better route to go down in this specific instance?

It may or may not get you anywhere, but best not to poke a potential hornet's nest with too big a stick?


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 20, 2020)

witzend said:


> Never clear cut is it in Video it said Common Land
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes... managed by the Burgage Holders.


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## Fisherman (Jul 20, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> clerk@alnmouthparishcouncil.org.uk
> 
> At the risk  of insulting your intelligence, don't go in there all guns blazing...
> I think gentle persuasion and a good, strong argument about why they should be making us welcome is perhaps a better route to go down in this specific instance?
> ...



stop reading my mind  

Thanks Marie


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 20, 2020)

Here you go @Fisherman, read this as well before you go ahead.

CAR PARK IN THE DUNES – AND WHERE THE MONEY GOES..


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## runnach (Jul 20, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Here you go @Fisherman, read this as well before you go ahead.
> 
> CAR PARK IN THE DUNES – AND WHERE THE MONEY GOES..


Considering that article I would envisage an ongoing reluctance to 3.5 tonne vehicles plus parking perception of more wear and tear


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 20, 2020)

channa said:


> Considering that article I would envisage an ongoing reluctance to 3.5 tonne vehicles plus parking perception of more wear and tear



The nature of that car park is that it will always have the problem of ongoing maintenance because of where it is situated. In reality nothing to do with the size of vehicles parking there.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 20, 2020)

channa said:


> Considering that article I would envisage an ongoing reluctance to 3.5 tonne vehicles plus parking perception of more wear and tear



Or £5 per van and 100 van nights buys 20t of hardcore.


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## maingate (Jul 20, 2020)

It is still available for (daytime) parking because it does NOT belong to Northumberland County Council. When the new Unitary County Council was formed a few years ago, they laid down double yellow lines everywhere and put up lots of 'not allowed' type signs, especially in coastal areas. That is why there are very few places to stop unless you pay a parking charge. They have since relaxed a few of these since then but not many.


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## runnach (Jul 20, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> The nature of that car park is that it will always have the problem of ongoing maintenance because of where it is situated. In reality nothing to do with the size of vehicles parking there.


I understand shifting sands , but a 3.5 tonne van is causing more wear than a passenger car , it’s the reason weight limits exist on roads and bridges, do you not agree that is how most would perceive it, more importantly a council....anyway I am pre empting a possible response

As an aside and nothing to do with campers , the motorcycle community are kicking off with restrictions in Barmouth despite plenty of space. Someone in the know has mentioned the lifeboat needs access, which proves the point there can be valid reasons


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## Fazerloz (Jul 20, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> The nature of that car park is that it will always have the problem of ongoing maintenance because of where it is situated. In reality nothing to do with the size of vehicles parking there.


Yes it will always have problems but the simple fact is the heavier the vehicle the more damage is done to the road.


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## sparrks (Jul 20, 2020)

mickymost said:


> But are the signs legal as when you read the article on the link it seems no laws have been broken BUT as usual they now want to put up a gate and are awaiting to see if planning permission is required.Another case of you cant stay for free overnight so F"' oFF


"
Chairman Shaun Whyte, who raised the issue with Northumbria Police, said: “There have been a number of incidents of camper vans staying overnight both on the beach (car park) and also around the village (Riverside).
"I checked with the police but, effectively, *if there are no regulations in place to prevent that and they are actually on the highway* then there is nothing they can do.  "I have put a call into Northumberland County Council to see if any bylaws have been infringed. They haven’t got back to me yet but* I suspect probably not*.”
"
By his admission they are doing nothing illegal


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> Yes it will always have problems but the simple fact is the heavier the vehicle the more damage is done to the road.




So if it isnt a Council Car Park and is managed by locals was it the Burbage then all money made in parking fees needs to be reinvested in the surface.So whether motohomes or cars what is different if Motorhomes are charged slightly more, due to being heavier.If they were allowed to overnight it would attract many more motorhomes so more money in the kitty to maintain the surface.Easy.


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

sparrks said:


> "
> Chairman Shaun Whyte, who raised the issue with Northumbria Police, said: “There have been a number of incidents of camper vans staying overnight both on the beach (car park) and also around the village (Riverside).
> "I checked with the police but, effectively, *if there are no regulations in place to prevent that and they are actually on the highway* then there is nothing they can do.  "I have put a call into Northumberland County Council to see if any bylaws have been infringed. They haven’t got back to me yet but* I suspect probably not*.”
> "
> By his admission they are doing nothing illegal




Exactly NOTHING ILLEGAL being the key.The highways are Public Roads YES PUBLIC.So the Police arent interested.MMM a precedent being set here maybe.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 20, 2020)

mickymost said:


> So if it isnt a Council Car Park and is managed by locals was it the Burbage then all money made in parking fees needs to be reinvested in the surface.So whether motohomes or cars what is different if Motorhomes are charged slightly more, due to being heavier.If they were allowed to overnight it would attract many more motorhomes so more money in the kitty to maintain the surface.Easy.



A bit like i said in post #43


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> A bit like i said in post #43




Not rocket Science really is it BUT these places seem to discriminate for some strange reason.What harm are overnighters doing providing they are not dumping rubbish (many pick up other rubbish left) and dont discard loo cassette contents which is another one they try to accuse us of.


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## maingate (Jul 20, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Not rocket Science really is it BUT these places seem to discriminate for some strange reason.What harm are overnighters doing providing they are not dumping rubbish (many pick up other rubbish left) and dont discard loo cassette contents which is another one they try to accuse us of.



They are not discriminating though. The people charged with looking after the land have made a set of rules and regulations which includes 'no overnighting by motorhomes'. Without seeing all of the R & R, it may be that Cars are not allowed to stay overnight either.

What it boils down to is this:

It is not your land but the caretakers of the property will allow you on it subject to you following their terms and conditions.


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## Toffeecat (Jul 20, 2020)

I wonder. As Bournemouth beach was covered in crap, why dont they ban people from the beach? Leeds at Elland Road, covered in tons of crap from celebrating foorball fans. Are they going to ban football fans? Crap from campers at beauty spots......ban motorhomes. most of whom dont cover the place in sh$$ Theres one rule for some one rule for others.


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## Fisherman (Jul 20, 2020)

Toffeecat said:


> I wonder. As Bournemouth beach was covered in crap, why dont they ban people from the beach? Leeds at Elland Road, covered in tons of crap from celebrating foorball fans. Are they going to ban football fans? Crap from campers at beauty spots......ban motorhomes. most of whom dont cover the place in sh$$ Theres one rule for some one rule for others.



Try banning cars from a car park, or dog walkers due to dog mess. See what would happen


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

maingate said:


> They are not discriminating though. The people charged with looking after the land have made a set of rules and regulations which includes 'no overnighting by motorhomes'. Without seeing all of the R & R, it may be that Cars are not allowed to stay overnight either.
> 
> What it boils down to is this:
> 
> It is not your land but the caretakers of the property will allow you on it subject to you following their terms and conditions.




When in this have I tried to claim its MY LAND, as in your reply quoting me you say its not your land! And for your information I have never been to this car park or beach we have never been to that area of the UK


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

Maingate did you bother to click the link on the first post of this thread in the Northumberland Gazette as  I dont think you did

You Say they are Not Discriminating though

Quoted from this article

"That would be a positive although it would be a pain for them to have to go down and lock up every evening and open every morning.
"It’s obviously a problem and it’s something we’ve got to keep an eye on because it’s a cheap overnight stay for them.”
Coun George Ternent said: “Maybe we could explore whether it’s possible to get a local bylaw to stop camper vans parking in the village?”

So stopping Camper vans parking in a village is NOT DISCRIMINATING sorry but I think it is.

It says it will be a pain to have to go down to unlock and lock a gate morning and evening in relation to a beach car park.Well they cant have their cake and eat it can they?


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## maureenandtom (Jul 20, 2020)

I knew it would be interesting.     This burgage system.   Is it English only?   Does anyone know if there is a similar system of ancient rights in Scotland which allowed the  commons holders (??) of Hawick to permit motorhome overnight parking in defiance of the local council?    There's something in my memory about this.    The permitted parking in Hawick is not because of the council but in spite of it?


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## maingate (Jul 20, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Maingate did you bother to click the link on the first post of this thread in the Northumberland Gazette as  I dont think you did
> 
> You Say they are Not Discriminating though
> 
> ...



 How do you know they are discriminating against Motorhomes that use the Beach car park? I have never said anything about roadside parking in the village, I know that is legal (under most circumstances). And you were the one who used the word 'discriminating'. not me. You seem to have gone off on a tangent, so I will try to be clearer. By using the car park, you have entered into a contract and paid for a service. If you do not abide by the terms of the contract you are in breach of it. With motorhomes, you will not pay a penalty ... every other innocent motorhome owner that is stopped using the car park will pay the penalty if they fit a height barrier.


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## barge1914 (Jul 20, 2020)

maingate said:


> I have been knackered for a long time. I am not some newcomer to wilding and nearly all of the spots we used are long gone. That is why I wild much less these days and it means I am now paying to overnight. That has cost me a lot of money over the years due to idiots buying motorhomes.
> 
> The only thing worse than these idiots are the whingeing motorhomers who complain all the time but don't get off their arse to do anything about it except complain. Like you.


So you’ve joined CAMpRA and are making a position contribution. Amongst the gloom they are actually seeing some bright shoots as a result of actually talking to the people who make decisions rather than whingeing to each other.


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## runnach (Jul 20, 2020)

Fazerloz said:


> More than likely  several thousands of £s per year for the contract.


Really ? I thought they let you trade where you wanted, don’t need licences rent free etc.......same as when we put valentines fair on , 5 k a week was the rent then had to hire toilets etc pay hirings etc some folk have no idea


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## trevskoda (Jul 20, 2020)

All land in N Ireland belongs to the grown estates right down to low tide,ground rents are paid to holders of ground which was lent/sold or leased for 990 years,the common lands in england i knew about but not the history on above posts,vely interesting.


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## runnach (Jul 20, 2020)

Toffeecat said:


> I wonder. As Bournemouth beach was covered in crap, why dont they ban people from the beach? Leeds at Elland Road, covered in tons of crap from celebrating foorball fans. Are they going to ban football fans? Crap from campers at beauty spots......ban motorhomes. most of whom dont cover the place in sh$$ Theres one rule for some one rule for others.


 One problem with your elland road analogy. 6 am following morning fans congregated and did a clean up. ‘Twas brieflyon the local news....of course doesn’t excuse their initial behaviour of some


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## Fazerloz (Jul 20, 2020)

channa said:


> Really ? I thought they let you trade where you wanted, don’t need licences rent free etc.......same as when we put valentines fair on , 5 k a week was the rent then had to hire toilets etc pay hirings etc some folk have no idea


And every bit of it is a gamble and all can be lost purely because of a bit of bad weather. I am so glad this is the first year we haven't tendered for any shows as they would have had to have been paid for in Feb. I bet its fun trying to get money back.    It will all be promises of next year.


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

maingate said:


> How do you know they are discriminating against Motorhomes that use the Beach car park? I have never said anything about roadside parking in the village, I know that is legal (under most circumstances). And you were the one who used the word 'discriminating'. not me. You seem to have gone off on a tangent, so I will try to be clearer. By using the car park, you have entered into a contract and paid for a service. If you do not abide by the terms of the contract you are in breach of it. With motorhomes, you will not pay a penalty ... every other innocent motorhome owner that is stopped using the car park will pay the penalty if they fit a height barrier.



Maingate


In my lifetime I actually have used a carpark once or twice
So I understand how a car park works in relation to a contract
And Yes I did use the word discriminating

I will make an attempt to be clearer for you (why will some motorhomes not pay a penalty and other innocent motorhomes will pay the penalty your words quoted again above)

I ask did you read the article again I think you did not

again I quote from the article (and this bit does refer to the beach car park thats how I know it relates to that )

"Coun Susanne Gair said she had spoken to Robin Winder of Alnmouth Burgage Holders, which have responsibility for the beach car park.
"The camper vans are clearly staying there overnight and some of them are staying more than one night,” she said. “Apparently the burgage holders are looking into putting some gates in there to stop this.”


putting in gates which no doubt will involve height barriers to stop motorhomes so Maingate do you think this is not to stop them being there.Do you not think the word discriminate relating to this article relates to preventing one type of vehicle being the motorhome which they are moaning about.


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## mickymost (Jul 20, 2020)

barge1914 said:


> So you’ve joined CAMpRA and are making a position contribution. Amongst the gloom they are actually seeing some bright shoots as a result of actually talking to the people who make decisions rather than whingeing to each other.




Maingate HAVE YOU joined CAMpRA?


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## maingate (Jul 20, 2020)

mickymost said:


> Maingate
> 
> "Coun Susanne Gair said she had spoken to Robin Winder of Alnmouth Burgage Holders, which have responsibility for the beach car park.
> *"The camper vans are clearly staying there overnight and some of them are staying more than one night,” she said. “Apparently the burgage holders are looking into putting some gates in there to stop this.”*
> ...



It not discrimination by the Burbage holders. It is utter stupidity by motorhome owners acting irresponsibly that has caused this. Don't get angry with me, get angry with the stupid arseholes that have caused this situation.


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## Markd (Jul 21, 2020)

We spent a night on the tarmac car park by the golf course in the middle of February last year and were seriously abused by a local walking his dog.
Most unwelcoming!!
The beach side car park attracts a fee in the summer and I think they allow motorhomes on during the day but don't allow overnighting apparently.
It's up to the managers of course but they are missing a revenue stream.
We would probably have parked out of the way by the beach if wed been sure of the ground but we arrived after dark.
Actually it's very solid and even in winter we'd have been ok.
The burgage holders are people who own property in the village centre.


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## izwozral (Jul 21, 2020)

Markd said:


> We spent a night on the tarmac car park by the golf course in the middle of February last year and were seriously abused by a local walking his dog.
> Most unwelcoming!!
> The beach side car park attracts a fee in the summer and I think they allow motorhomes on during the day but don't allow overnighting apparently.
> It's up to the managers of course but they are missing a revenue stream.
> ...



What did they say to Mark? How did you respond?


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## jagmanx (Jul 21, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> All land in N Ireland belongs to the grown estates right down to low tide,ground rents are paid to holders of ground which was lent/sold or leased for 990 years,the common lands in england i knew about but not the history on above posts,vely interesting.


Linux is messing with your keyboard, Trevsoda (or is that a drink?)


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## Markd (Jul 21, 2020)

The man came right up to my wife while she was walking our dog invading her personal space and told her we weren't welcome and were free loading and should use b&b or hotel.
She was very upset and I suppose he had the effect he wanted because despite the beach being lovely to visit she won't go there again.
Incidentally he came back from his dog walk without a poo bag - so obviously a model citizen looking after local amenities and his neighbours!


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## izwozral (Jul 21, 2020)

Markd said:


> The man came right up to my wife while she was walking our dog invading her personal space and told her we weren't welcome and were free loading and should use b&b or hotel.
> She was very upset and I suppose he had the effect he wanted because despite the beach being lovely to visit she won't go there again.
> Incidentally he came back from his dog walk without a poo bag - so obviously a model citizen looking after local amenities and his neighbours!



Sounds a right tw4t. 

What gives him the right to dictate how someone spends their holidays? Knob head springs to mind.

Be interesting to march up to someone coming out of a hotel and tell them they weren't welcome and they were following a capitalist agenda and they should use a MH or a tent. I wonder what the reply would be?


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## Markd (Jul 21, 2020)

We were just doing an overnight stop on our way to Scotland and thought we were nicely out of anyone's way.
Other dog walkers there were mumbling about how wed parked taking up space.
I admit that if we'd arrived in daylight I would have parked differently but there was still plenty of room and we'd planned to leave after breakfast anyway.
Part of me wanted to stay another night in retaliation for their bad grace - but as I say my wife bore the brunt of the abuse and wanted away ASAP.


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## mickymost (Jul 21, 2020)

maingate said:


> It not discrimination by the Burbage holders. It is utter stupidity by motorhome owners acting irresponsibly that has caused this. Don't get angry with me, get angry with the stupid arseholes that have caused this situation.




Maingate Good Morning

Im not getting angry with you its a forum to discuss not to beat each other up  
lifes too short was just stating facts posted by another members link


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 21, 2020)

@Markd

There are quite a few parochial knobs (snobs?) living in Northumberland.
Actually, there have always been parochial knobs/snobs residing in any pretty small town or village through the UK if you look hard enough.

But not all are parochial. Some are often just first-class nimbys. A fair few are 'incomers', as I've mentioned before. Many will be 'professionals' (some retired, some not) moved up from stinky Londinium or other southern power houses. But they really do like to throw their prejudiced weight around when its comes to local matters.

There are many holiday property owners in this area too, and not all will necessarily be permanent residents either.

Whatever, you are right about some of them having distinctly small-minded and aggressive nimby attitudes.
And that was before C-19 !!! Unfortunately some will be even more leary and insane since its arrival.

There are flies in every type of ointment


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 21, 2020)

The signs say no overnighting, and whether it's enforceable or not (apparently not - for now....) I agree 100% with maingate about idiots with campers thinking they can just ignore the notices and do what they want.

Alnmouth is a honeypot because it is such a pretty Northumberland coastal village, but if you start getting increased numbers of covidiots basically sticking two fingers up at parking signage then, tbh, I can't say I blame the Burbage Holders from wanting to stop them from abusing the site.

And by abusing, I don't mean leaving rubbish or behaving badly, I mean taking liberties in what is a fairly high-profile tourist car park managed in conjunction with a burgage system. I say if you invade in campers and proceed to show your monkey bums to the natives' parking signs then you should fully expect a smacking in return.

As for parking safely on the roadway elsewhere in the vicinity then fair enough, but it is a small place not suitable for accommodating masses of vehicles in or around the main village, whatever the size of the vehicles. Hence the need for the beach car park.


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## Nabsim (Jul 21, 2020)

So why is the problem motorhomes or vans that stay overnight if signs are illegal. I see the problem as no provision has been made. Things have changed and will keep changing as the number of people using vans is constantly rising. Thought this was a site for off grid camping?


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## mickymost (Jul 21, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> The signs say no overnighting, and whether it's enforceable or not (apparently not - for now....) I agree 100% with maingate about idiots with campers thinking they can just ignore the notices and do what they want.
> 
> Alnmouth is a honeypot because it is such a pretty Northumberland coastal village, but if you start getting increased numbers of covidiots basically sticking two fingers up at parking signage then, tbh, I can't say I blame the Burbage Holders from wanting to stop them from abusing the site.
> 
> ...




So Marie are we now saying anyone in a Motorhome who has chanced an overnight anywhere not just Alnmouth is branded by you as a Covidiot.So are all members on Wildcamping Covidiots now?
How do you know how long the ones shown in the article  have been a Motorhome owner (you dont).They might be new owners who need a little educating in whats right or wrong relating to stopovers, yes but that doesnt make them a Covididiot. How do you know these that did stopover at Alnmouth shown in the Newspaper article clearly know about a Burbage system.(you dont)
As regarding the mention of them parking around the Village well it seems the Police dont have a problem with that so its just local residents getting annoyed but these locals live in a tourist spot so have to expect visitors.


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## maingate (Jul 21, 2020)

Markd said:


> We were just doing an overnight stop on our way to Scotland and thought we were nicely out of anyone's way.
> Other dog walkers there were mumbling about how wed parked taking up space.
> I admit that if we'd arrived in daylight I would have parked differently but there was still plenty of room and we'd planned to leave after breakfast anyway.
> Part of me wanted to stay another night in retaliation for their bad grace - but as I say my wife bore the brunt of the abuse and wanted away ASAP.



I had exactly the same thing when overnighting at Boulmer in Northumberland about 9 years ago. A bloke turned up in a car, made a wisecrack and continued walking his dog on the Dunes. There happened to be a woman from the village present and she told me that dog walkers arrive from local villages, let their dogs crap everywhere and never pick up after them. The villagers hate them. The bloke returned an hour later, without a poo bag, so his Labrador must have been constipated. In this instance the villagers were happy with motorhomers and angry at locals.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 21, 2020)

maingate said:


> I had exactly the same thing when overnighting at Boulmer in Northumberland about 9 years ago. A bloke turned up in a car, made a wisecrack and continued walking his dog on the Dunes. There happened to be a woman from the village present and she told me that dog walkers arrive from local villages, let their dogs crap everywhere and never pick up after them. The villagers hate them. The bloke returned an hour later, without a poo bag, so his Labrador must have been constipated. In this instance the villagers were happy with motorhomers and angry at locals.



We had same at Boulmer. The locals were pretty welcoming - the one nice clean public loo was looked after voluntarily by one of them.
But there are other 'locals' who aren't. Same everywhere.




mickymost said:


> So Marie are we now saying anyone in a Motorhome who has chanced an overnight anywhere not just Alnmouth is branded by you as a Covidiot.So are all members on Wildcamping Covidiots now?
> How do you know how long the ones shown in the article  have been a Motorhome owner (you dont).They might be new owners who need a little educating in whats right or wrong relating to stopovers, yes but that doesnt make them a Covididiot. How do you know these that did stopover at Alnmouth shown in the Newspaper article clearly know about a Burbage system.(you dont)
> As regarding the mention of them parking around the Village well it seems the Police dont have a problem with that so its just local residents getting annoyed but these locals live in a tourist spot so have to expect visitors.



No, I'm not saying that, I'm just making an educated guess and I would be prepared to wager a fair whack I'm close to the mark.

You don't need to be either a recent or an experienced camper owner to be able to understand a big sign right in front of your nose that says 'no overnight parking', unless you don't speak English and can't read.

If you don't understand the signage then you are either a plain idiot or a chancer by parking overnight, regardless of the vehicle you're driving.

Under the new covid regime, and taking into account the huge upsurge in people suddenly wanting campers, I'd say it's a reasonable assumption that at least some of those campervans overnighting at Alnmouth are also new to the game and therefore in the covidiot category in my book, i.e. showing a lack of respect for both the place they are visiting and the people who live there and are responsible for that particular car park.


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## Nabsim (Jul 21, 2020)

Was it me I would think it better to have motorhomes parked overnight for a small fee then moved in the day. During the day you get a big (mainly) white eyesore parked blocking your view


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## Val54 (Jul 21, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> Was it me I would think it better to have motorhomes parked overnight for a small fee then moved in the day. During the day you get a big (mainly) white eyesore parked blocking your view


I agree, but I think we sometimes forget that a lot of small community facilities (of whatever type) are run by volunteers, so managing these facilities is usually hard because of lack of volunteers, eg someone to make sure all the camper vans are gone by 0900 and maybe argue with some who won’t move, not easy to resource, speaking as someone who has been managing a voluntary resourced village hall for years.


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## maingate (Jul 21, 2020)

I certainly agree with you Val (or Dave?). However, this beach car park is really large and must turn over a lot of money over 12 months. I think the Burbage people are missing a trick here. The extra outlay to accommodate Motorhomes will be minimal and the rewards great. All they would need to supply are large litter bins if they limit the stay to 48 hours max as I expect it would be difficult to supply fresh water and toilet disposal.


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## Fisherman (Jul 21, 2020)

maingate said:


> I certainly agree with you Val (or Dave?). However, this beach car park is really large and must turn over a lot of money over 12 months. I think the Burbage people are missing a trick here. The extra outlay to accommodate Motorhomes will be minimal and the rewards great. All they would need to supply are large litter bins if they limit the stay to 48 hours max as I expect it would be difficult to supply fresh water and toilet disposal.



I intend emailing them (nicely).
I will point out what's going on up here in Fife and with the car parking in certain forestry commission carparks.
I contacted the FC about this 8 months ago pointing out what was being done in Fife.
It looks like new management within the FC are now taking a different approach.
Fife anticipate they will make money from us in the medium term, and they feel our presence will enhance security in their carparks.
Fife don't regard us as a problem, they regard others who use their carparks as a problem.

I am busy today but I will compose an email this week and send it off.


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## Fisherman (Jul 21, 2020)

runnach said:


> I have spent three hours tonight trying to book a site through the CCC within Northumberland area, NADA for dates I require, guess I'll be staying home
> 
> For the record, prefer a bona-fide site than doing our usual WC'ing, as we certainly do not want to be rattling anyone's cage.



Sorry to hear about your booking problems Terry.
And I completely agree about WC right now.
We will only be WC in rural locations, well away from towns and villages.
I think we should all try to steer away from them right now.
Nerves are on edge right now, places that were fine pre covid, might not be so now.


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## Nabsim (Jul 21, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Sorry to hear about your booking problems Terry.
> And I completely agree about WC right now.
> We will only be WC in rural locations, well away from towns and villages.
> I think we should all try to steer away from them right now.
> Nerves are on edge right now, places that were fine pre covid, might not be so now.


For the last week and a half I have been off grid in the outskirts of a city, no problems with anyone in fact everyone has been cheery. I do know that the situation has brought a lot of idiots to the surface though all over England so its fair to assume it will be the same everywhere in the UK. I dont seek conflict wherever I go but I dont take sh1t from folks either. I try to be considerate but if they have a problem ...


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## Fisherman (Jul 21, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> For the last week and a half I have been off grid in the outskirts of a city, no problems with anyone in fact everyone has been cheery. I do know that the situation has brought a lot of idiots to the surface though all over England so its fair to assume it will be the same everywhere in the UK. I dont seek conflict wherever I go but I dont take sh1t from folks either. I try to be considerate but if they have a problem ...



Spot on Nabism, me to.

We just feel WC near towns may may worry some.
Like you I don't take shit either.
But I do what I can to avoid conflict, sometimes to much to be honest.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 21, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> So why is the problem motorhomes or vans that stay overnight if signs are illegal. I see the problem as no provision has been made. Things have changed and will keep changing as the number of people using vans is constantly rising. Thought this was a site for off grid camping?



It is more a matter of engaging/educating/persuading those active/influential locals. To think about a small provision of some description for motorhomes/campers rather than locking them out completely is more likely to be mutually beneficial than not.


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## Fisherman (Jul 21, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> It is more a matter of engaging/educating/persuading those active/influential locals. To think about a small provision of some description for motorhomes/campers rather than locking them out completely is more likely to be mutually beneficial than not.



We have to present ourselves as people who do what we do because we love visiting these places, and we will continue loving them in their current state. It’s also important that we identify ourselves mainly as being older than average with a mindset conducive to maintaining the places we visit. Sadly some folk think we are somehow different from them, when in actual fact we are them. They have or are working hard, contributed to their local communities, and our country just as we have. We also have to use what examples of what others have done to welcome us. That way they can peruse the details, and possibly contact them for clarification.


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## antiquesam (Jul 21, 2020)

I'm currently spending a fortune staying on a C&MC site at Moreton in Marsh. The site is full and the pubs in the town say that the locals aren't going out so they're glad of the caravan trade.


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## Val54 (Jul 21, 2020)

maingate said:


> I certainly agree with you Val (or Dave?). However, this beach car park is really large and must turn over a lot of money over 12 months. I think the Burbage people are missing a trick here. The extra outlay to accommodate Motorhomes will be minimal and the rewards great. All they would need to supply are large litter bins if they limit the stay to 48 hours max as I expect it would be difficult to supply fresh water and toilet disposal.



Its Dave 
Unfortunately I don't know the site and I agree that to us the outlay versus future gains is a no brainer for the community. The problem with our "WC" position is that without an "official" organisation to front us, we have no credibility with a local community. Making them aware of what others like Fife are doing by email is fine (and that is not a criticism) but that at best will raise further questions. Speaking as a long term resident of a small village with lots of experience of the petty politics that such places inevitably have, face to face meetings are the only realistic way of achieving any momentum. In this case the burgage holders will probably need to be spoon fed, given a suggested layout, means of controlling numbers, some idea of extra costs such as refuse collection, any physical works and of course, a projection of how much income it could potentially generate, either through a small overnight fee and/or spending in the local area. I'm not involved with the new group as I don't do Facebook so I haven't seen how much progress they are making; incidentally a lot of the people they are trying to influence probably don't do social media either 

PS Just back from 4 days in North Wales, no problems over there.

/


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## mickymost (Jul 21, 2020)

maingate said:


> I certainly agree with you Val (or Dave?). However, this beach car park is really large and must turn over a lot of money over 12 months. I think the Burbage people are missing a trick here. The extra outlay to accommodate Motorhomes will be minimal and the rewards great. All they would need to supply are large litter bins if they limit the stay to 48 hours max as I expect it would be difficult to supply fresh water and toilet disposal.




Good idea Maingate 48 hours maximum would work charge more than a car would 
make sense they would rake £££££££ it in.


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## Jetjem (Jul 22, 2020)

Hi,
Iv’e lived all my life In Northumberland and worked outdoors both in Northumberland and Durham, so have a fairly good knowledge of lots of parking places.
I also wild camp as well as reluctantly use some sites.
It is slowly becoming increasingly harder to wild camp or find an Aire. For that reason, last year I approached my local and county council, MP, the tourist board and the minister for tourism. I pointed out the revenue they were missing by not tapping into this market of 250k+ registered motorhome. Apart from finding the usual milk bottle shoulders I basically went round in circles.
I have now joined CAMPra (Campaign for real Aires) on Facebook, with the hope that a joint approach will have more clout.
I know wild camping is what it is, but a low cost or free Aire, can be a good alternative.  It could be worth a look?


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## Beemer (Jul 22, 2020)

We have stayed recently on that coast, albeit in a hotel or Airbnb.
We have truly come to love that area, and recently stayed a week (Hotel) a couple of weeks ago, spotted few motorhomes/campers and they all seem to be reasonably parked (up for the night).


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## campervanannie (Jul 22, 2020)

maingate said:


> I have been knackered for a long time. I am not some newcomer to wilding and nearly all of the spots we used are long gone. That is why I wild much less these days and it means I am now paying to overnight. That has cost me a lot of money over the years due to idiots buying motorhomes.
> 
> The only thing worse than these idiots are the whingeing motorhomers who complain all the time but don't get off their arse to do anything about it except complain. Like you.


Is that your only gripe because it’s costing you a bit of money so we are only idiots because you cannot freeload anymore.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jul 22, 2020)

Places will become ghost towns unless visitors return.

Reckon self-catering businesses in the UK will see a boom for the next year or so, but figure the holiday experience will be much more low key and quiet with restricted or limited facilities due to C-19.

Actually, it will be like a return to childhood - my childhood anyway - where if you stayed in self-catering accommodation you always entertained and catered for yourself. All activities back them were based on the great (free!) outdoors - exploring by walking, swimming or paddling in the sea, learning about all the local wildlife, playing games indoors if the weather was bad etc. etc. My father & mother loved to get as far away from people as possible.

So my old holiday experiences are pretty much what younger generations have maybe experienced for the very first time during lockdown, except without knowledgeable adults around to teach them how to behave and respect the environment.

No shops, no pubs, no restaurants or cafes, no theme parks or 'visitor attractions', just uninterrupted nature at its best to look at or wander about in and some home made grub and a good bed to sleep in at the end of the day.

That's pretty much bliss in my book.

Guess that's why campervanning is so appealing to me


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## antiquesam (Jul 22, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Places will become ghost towns unless visitors return.
> 
> Reckon self-catering businesses in the UK will see a boom for the next year or so, but figure the holiday experience will be much more low key and quiet with restricted or limited facilities due to C-19.
> 
> ...


Steady on. I'm all for the great outdoors and home made grub but I don't like the idea of no pubs. I remember the happy hours I spent sitting outside with a bag of crisps and a bottle of pop, but I'm old enough to go into them now.


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## mickymost (Jul 22, 2020)

Jetjem said:


> Hi,
> Iv’e lived all my life In Northumberland and worked outdoors both in Northumberland and Durham, so have a fairly good knowledge of lots of parking places.
> I also wild camp as well as reluctantly use some sites.
> It is slowly becoming increasingly harder to wild camp or find an Aire. For that reason, last year I approached my local and county council, MP, the tourist board and the minister for tourism. I pointed out the revenue they were missing by not tapping into this market of 250k+ registered motorhome. Apart from finding the usual milk bottle shoulders I basically went round in circles.
> ...




Great well providing you can prise the Local Councillors heads out of the sand maybe just maybe (but dont hold your breath) you will convince some to change their attitude preventing the Motorhome stopovers


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## maingate (Jul 22, 2020)

campervanannie said:


> Is that your only gripe because it’s costing you a bit of money so we are only idiots because you cannot freeload anymore.



So, in your opinion, all the members of this forum are freeloaders?

How to win friends and influence people ... not.


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## Fisherman (Jul 22, 2020)

maingate said:


> So, in your opinion, all the members of this forum are freeloaders?
> 
> How to win friends and influence people ... not.



In your opinion anyone who does not agree with you is a moron, or an idiot, or both.

Now thats a surefire way to make fiends and win influence.

As for freeloaders, well you take the biscuit try reading your own post from only two weeks ago.

"You are correct Andrew, there are plenty of freeloaders about. They are a small minority of a very large group, which makes them a sizeable amount of people. They will never change their habits, if their favourite places come under some form of payment or control, they will just find somewhere else."


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## campervanannie (Jul 22, 2020)

maingate said:


> So, in your opinion, all the members of this forum are freeloaders?
> 
> How to win friends and influence people ... not.


no but that’s a great twist on my words you are moaning because you have to pay now I actually don’t mind paying a fair and reasonable amount for parking or staying overnight I just don’t like being ripped off by extortionate campsite fees, but happy to use the occasional one at a fair price. But please read your own post you are whining because what you got for free you now have to pay for thanks to idiots buying motorhomes.


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## maingate (Jul 22, 2020)

You should know now that I never wine. Youu need to go back and read my post again. I was annoyed at the motorhome owners who get POIs stopped by their bad behaviour.

Money is not a problem to me and I hardly ever consider wildcamping unless it is to break a long journey. And if we are going to start slagging each other off, I remember a post by a member unhappy at how a group of wilders were behaving badly and it turned out to be you and others from this forum.

Whatever your longstanding gripe with me is I have no idea but **** get over it. If youu have the guts you could PM me with your problem, it would be nice to know.


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## mickymost (Jul 22, 2020)

campervanannie said:


> no but that’s a great twist on my words you are moaning because you have to pay now I actually don’t mind paying a fair and reasonable amount for parking or staying overnight I just don’t like being ripped off by extortionate campsite fees, but happy to use the occasional one at a fair price. But please read your own post you are whining because what you got for free you now have to pay for thanks to idiots buying motorhomes.



We are like you and dont mind paying to stop providing its reasonable.Campsites in the main charge way too much for a plot of grass to park on for about 12 hours. Caravans need to stop longer so get better value from a Campsite.


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## Fisherman (Jul 22, 2020)

We pay tens of thousands for vans, campsites, CLs, carparks, lay byes, etc, they all have their uses.


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## campervanannie (Jul 22, 2020)

maingate said:


> You should know now that I never wine. Youu need to go back and read my post again. I was annoyed at the motorhome owners who get POIs stopped by their bad behaviour.
> 
> Money is not a problem to me and I hardly ever consider wildcamping unless it is to break a long journey. And if we are going to start slagging each other off, I remember a post by a member unhappy at how a group of wilders were behaving badly and it turned out to be you and others from this forum.
> 
> Whatever your longstanding gripe with me is I have no idea but **** get over it. If youu have the guts you could PM me with your problem, it would be nice to know.


here is what you wrote

QUOTE I have been knackered for a long time. I am not some newcomer to wilding and nearly all of the spots we used are long gone. That is why I wild much less these days and it means I am now paying to overnight. That has cost me a lot of money over the years due to idiots buying motorhomes.END QUOTE

if that’s not whining about how much it's now costing you because of idiots buying motorhomer, and as far as having a long standing gripe with you I don’t even know you I only ever met you twice but on reading your post above it seems the other way round you seem to have a problem with me but go ahead have your little pop at me it’s like water off a ducks back Your not that important in my life to have any effect and as far as PM it doesn’t take guts to PM someone get a grip man is this how you react if someone disagrees with you.


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