# The Price of Processed



## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

I have been looking closely at the contents and doing a little internet research on  what actually goes in and how much of it, to the processed food we buy. 
_
1. Artificial Sweeteners

Experiments have found that sweet taste, regardless of its caloric content, enhances your appetite, and consuming artificial sweeteners has been shown to lead to even greater weight gain than consuming sugar. Aspartame has been found to have the most pronounced effect, but the same applies for other artificial sweeteners, such as acesulfame potassium, sucralose and saccharin.

2. Synthetic Trans Fats

These are common in foods that contain partially hydrogenated vegetable oil, such as crackers, chips, most store-bought baked goods, and any fried foods, just to name a few examples. Synthetic trans fats are known to promote inflammation, which is a hallmark of most chronic and/or serious diseases.

3. Artificial Flavors

What’s particularly alarming when you see a word like “artificial flavor” on an ingredients label is that there’s no way to know what it actually means. It could mean that one unnatural additive is included, or it could be a blend of hundreds of additives. Strawberry artificial flavor can contain nearly 50 chemical ingredients, for example

4. Monosodium Glutamate (MSG)

This flavor enhancer is most often associated with Chinese food, but it's actually in countless processed food products ranging from frozen dinners and salad dressing to snack chips and meats. MSG is an excitotoxin, which means it overexcites your cells to the point of damage or death, causing brain dysfunction and damage to varying degrees -- and potentially even triggering or worsening learning disabilities, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, Lou Gehrig's disease and more.

5. Artificial Colors

Every year, food manufacturers pour 15 million pounds of artificial food dyes into U.S. foods -- and that amount only factors in eight different varieties.6 As of July 2010, most foods in the European Union that contain artificial food dyes were labeled with warning labels stating the food "may have an adverse effect on activity and attention in children.

6. High-Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS)

It’s often claimed that HFCS is no worse for you than sugar, but this is not the case. Because high-fructose corn syrup contains free-form monosaccharides of fructose and glucose, it cannot be considered biologically equivalent to sucrose (sugar), which has a glycosidic bond that links the fructose and glucose together, and which slows its break down in the body.

Fructose is primarily metabolized by your liver, because your liver is the only organ that has the transporter for it. Since all fructose gets shuttled to your liver, and, if you eat a typical Western-style diet, you consume high amounts of it, fructose ends up taxing and damaging your liver in the same way alcohol and other toxins do. 

7. Preservatives

Preservatives lengthen the shelf-life of foods, increasing manufacturers’ profits – at your expense, since most are linked to health problems such as cancer, allergic reactions and more. Butylated hydroxyanisole (BHA) and butylated hydrozyttoluene (BHT) are preservatives that affect the neurological system of your brain, alter behavior and have the potential to cause cancer. Tertiary butylhydroquinone (TBHQ) is a chemical preservative so deadly that just five grams can kill you._

Now, as those people who have met me can testify, I am not 'Body is a Temple' Lentil eating, flat shoe wearing, gym bunny but have been making a conscious effort to eat what I have cooked and am finding a huge positive, physiological  difference. Please don't get me wrong, I like my food but i am finding it quite interesting.

I think when I begin my Full Time life, I will have more opportunity to cut out the processed food and look forward to seeing what effect this has in the longer term.

I just wondered about others experiences?


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## Obanboy666 (Nov 9, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> I have been looking closely at the contents and doing a little internet research on  what actually goes in and how much of it, to the processed food we buy.
> _
> 1. Artificial Sweeteners
> 
> ...



I think you need to get out more lol.


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

Get it?  get what?


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

HFCS  -  i saw a documentary about this a couple of years ago and it said that  HFCS was a by-product of the farming industry and was developed in the 1970s.  According to wykepedia  it was developed to create more profit for farmers, irrespective of the benefits, or otherwise, to the consumer.


 "HFCS was first marketed in the early 1970s by the Clinton Corn Processing Company, together with the Japanese research institute where the enzyme was discovered.""


this product  has no useful purpose in the human body as far as i am concerned.....

We have been conned by fast food manufacturers for decades into thinking what we eat is healthy  - its not till you analyse their food ingredients and start researching  for yourself   -   for example  -   the changes in names of additives such as Aspartame to 'hide'  profile criticism of its side effects -  that you being to realise how "unwell" most of us are most of the time.

Its not till we change what we eat, and experience a full energetic healthy body that  we can work out what fast-food actually does to us.

Another documentary involved a presenter eating nothing but fast food for a week  and having his bloods measured regularly...   his liver was in a serious condition when the week ended.


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

There is also Pink Slime but i left that out as it was dinner time 

[video=youtube;jXJSmxi2buc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXJSmxi2buc[/video]

Nicer clip for meal time


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## carol (Nov 9, 2016)

Obanboy666 said:


> I think you need the get it more lol.



I think he means get OUT more!


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

The World Health Organisation defined the most serious  pandemic  which is growing more serious by the yearas  -  Globesity

Over one third of the UK population is obese.

Why anyone should tell Ed to "get out more" when he is raising the biggest health issue of our time   beggars belief to be honest.


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

I just thought it would be an interesting discussion.

I am not the healthiest of eaters but part of my wish for a new adventure in my camper is to improve what and how I eat. 

Obanboy66 is cool, his humour just demonstrates the longer term effects of a bad diet of processed food


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## maingate (Nov 9, 2016)

I am surprised the subject needs airing at all. Everyone should be well aware of the foods that are 'manufactured' in a laboratory by Industrial Chemists. They are designed to make profits for Industrialists, not provide a good diet for the end users.


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## yorkslass (Nov 9, 2016)

Like you Ed, I have done a fair bit of reading regarding healthy eating. I was diagnosed with high BP, Diabetes and had a question mark over my cholesterol.My theory is perfect, but my willpower repeatedly let's me down. I do cook from scratch but my downfall are sweet things and chocolate. I've had my warning but it's hard to deny myself what I enjoy. I think it may be easier to eat healthier when you only have yourself to cook for. I think if I only had myself to please I would eat more in the way of pulses etc with less meat. The "experts" seem to have revised their opinions about eating butter, eggs and full fat milk. My great gran probably had the best approach, all things in moderation.


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

yorkslass said:


> Like you Ed, I have done a fair bit of reading regarding healthy eating. I was diagnosed with high BP, Diabetes and had a question mark over my cholesterol.My theory is perfect, but my willpower repeatedly let's me down. I do cook from scratch but my downfall are sweet things and chocolate. I've had my warning but it's hard to deny myself what I enjoy. I think it may be easier to eat healthier when you only have yourself to cook for. I think if I only had myself to please I would eat more in the way of pulses etc with less meat. The "experts" seem to have revised their opinions about eating butter, eggs and full fat milk. My great gran probably had the best approach, all things in moderation.




i eat everything  -  but some things i see as a real treat and will only eat them if i go out with friends for a meal, so i never feel as if i am depriving myself.


Chocolate is indeed the devil incarnate !!!!   i found that as my weight came down and i put more healthy foods into my body my taste buds Definitely changed and i could no longer tolerate really sweet things.

i buy Aldi  bar of  85% cocoa  chocolate bars which have 5 mini bars inside and i take one and leave the rest in the packet in the cupboard.   it soon becomes a habit if you can.


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

maingate said:


> *I am surprised the subject needs airing at all. Everyone should be well aware* of the foods that are 'manufactured' in a laboratory by Industrial Chemists. They are designed to make profits for Industrialists, not provide a good diet for the end users.




Obviously many are not aware  - otherwise we would not have a pandemic called Globesity would we ?


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## GreggBear (Nov 9, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> I have been looking closely at the contents and doing a little internet research on  what actually goes in and how much of it, to the processed food we buy.
> _
> 1. Artificial Sweeteners
> 
> ...


Joined Slimming World 9 weeks ago as I had got to 28st 7lb and was feeling very low. My mobility was very limited and I felt rough all the time. Wasn't sleeping well either. They got me back on track doing more cooking for myself so now I control how many additives and things I eat. Upshot is I feel great now. Less tired and sleeping better. More energy and my mobility has improved too. I have lost 2st in the last 8 weeks and while that has helped a lot, I'm also sure my improved diet has helped no end by dumping all the E numbers and  such. All meals now cooked from fresh and I know just what i'm eating now. Highly recommended!:heart:


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

I do like really, really dark chocolate but my downfall has been convenience or so i thought. 

I have recently rediscovered the pressure cooker which means all ingredients that i know and quick 

I still eat a wide range of stuff, some naughty but, atm, it is more about knowing what i am eating and taking the time to cook it.

Yes, deffo' easier as i am on my own. Breakfast can take 1 hour 40 minutes, with a nice fresh coffee at either end, when I am away in the camper. 

Soon though it will be followed by a nice walk. When I have moved out of the Bricks n Mortar.

Next on my to learn skills list is filleting fish. I like pan fried mackerel fillets, done skin side down until its crispy. Nice and simple, just a little salt & pepper


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

GreggBear said:


> Joined Slimming World 9 weeks ago as I had got to 28st 7lb and was feeling very low. My mobility was very limited and I felt rough all the time. Wasn't sleeping well either. They got me back on track doing more cooking for myself so now I control how many additives and things I eat. Upshot is I feel great now. Less tired and sleeping better. More energy and my mobility has improved too. *I have lost 2st in the last 8 weeks* and while that has helped a lot, I'm also sure my improved diet has helped no end by dumping all the E numbers and  such. All meals now cooked from fresh and I know just what i'm eating now. Highly recommended!:heart:




Well done that is a massive achievement..... :goodluck:  i hope you are giving yourself non-food rewards ??


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## GreggBear (Nov 9, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> I do like really, really dark chocolate but my downfall has been convenience or so i thought.
> 
> I have recently rediscovered the pressure cooker which means all ingredients that i know and quick
> 
> ...



Hi. don't know if you watch Ray Meers at all but he did a programme think it was from Sweden, where he demonstrated how to remove the bones from a whole salmon. Took no time at all and looked a very quick and easy method. Can't see why it wouldn't work on other types of fish. Hope that helps.


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

I am OK with the filleting, I just need to cut the head off first. I am sure that little eye watches me


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## GreggBear (Nov 9, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> I am OK with the filleting, I just need to cut the head off first. I am sure that little eye watches me



I can sympathise with you I refuse to eat anything that's watching me eat it!:tongue:


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## maingate (Nov 9, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Obviously many are not aware  - otherwise we would not have a pandemic called Globesity would we ?



They know about it but many are too lazy or can't cook and will not learn to cook, so they live on fast food.

There is a rough area near me known as Teams. A Greggs sausage roll is often given to small kids to shut them up and feed them. Hence they are known as a Teams Dummy.


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## harrow (Nov 9, 2016)

I think forget sugar tax.

The government should make GOOD foods cheaper. :wave:


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## n brown (Nov 9, 2016)

we have a similar area in Bristol . i once sat at an outside cafe watching a young mum feed her 1yr old with a Greggs pastie and a baby bottle full of coca cola while telling her mates how she broke a plastic comb and ''stabbed the bitch with the sharp bit ''

salt of the earth!


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## yorkieowl (Nov 9, 2016)

Proper food doesn't take that much longer to prepare, but a lot more satisfying knowing whats in (or not) in it.  If you factor in shopping time, which is considerably less when not having to go down all the aisles looking for the junk food, then its an even bigger bonus (I dislike food shopping).  Try reading Zoe Harcombes book, I found it a good read, and her diet worked for us, although due to health problems I let it slide, and have gained a lot of weight, and am finding it difficult to get fully back into, but our diet even now, is much better than before.


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

I think most areas have Greggs, now we have established that, shall we get back on topic. This is, after all not Jeremy Kyle


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## runnach (Nov 9, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> There is also Pink Slime but i left that out as it was dinner time
> 
> [video=youtube;jXJSmxi2buc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXJSmxi2buc[/video]
> 
> Nicer clip for meal time


 I have to correct you a bit here, The video posted relates to the US the UK has never allowed the bleaching of meat to bring it back for human consumption. I do believe the practice is now illegal in the uS

Overall I agree with your sentiments re food as others will testify. When you have children in the US whose life expectancy is 10 years less than their parents we have a problem,

Channa


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## yorkslass (Nov 9, 2016)

On the dark choc theme, I buy the highest % I can find then I can only eat a small amount at once. Done the same with wine. I really don't like red wine, so a bottle can last nearly a week. Will have a look at that Zoe Harcomb book Sue, though my problem really is treats. Just one, but one of this that and the other.

BTW well done Greggbear, stick at it.


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

it was just a short clip to stimulate the chat. Apologies if you mistook it for a court submission. It was btw 8 separate facts. 

But you are of course correct. Best we talk cochineal instead


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

I have a sort of long held dream to be able to walk down into  village and buy fish fresh off the trawlers, take them back to the camper, fillet, cook (alfresco) and enjoy.


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## Caz (Nov 9, 2016)

I like Gregg's sausage rolls.


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## n brown (Nov 9, 2016)

you're not alone View attachment 48224


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

[video=youtube;EMwU7dEKYTo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMwU7dEKYTo[/video]

Really, could it be any quicker?


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## n brown (Nov 9, 2016)

i've only recently started eating fish, never really fancied food you might choke to death on, and tried filleting a salmon which was , ironically, on the salmonella shelf in Tescos, £13 ta. 
you need an extremely sharp knife, sharp enough to make you sweat a bit, and even after watching a Youtube instructional, i found the blade wandered a bit, leaving good size lumps on the spine, and even after filleting, there were some big bones that needed pliers to remove, and did a bit of damage to the meat. tried a cod after that, still struggling, so maybe i'll buy some sardines to practise a bit more, or just cook the gutted fish whole and scrape off the meat. oh, and all fish gets cooked outside the van/house on one of those cheapo gas rings


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

Yeah, I will be cooking alfresco, I think that is a must, lol


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

and if that whet your appetite, then here is another method

[video=youtube;0hvm8GE0ADA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hvm8GE0ADA[/video]

A 220g Mackerel from a High Street supermarket  would be £1, from a Fishing Village buttons.


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## harrow (Nov 9, 2016)

n brown said:


> all fish gets cooked outside the van/house on one of those cheapo gas rings



I know the smell of cooking smoked haddock is not a good smell to have in the house during the winter :bow:


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

Breakfast is not a healthy but is quite an enjoyable part of the day


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> View attachment 48228
> 
> Breakfast is not a healthy but is quite an enjoyable part of the day



how many people is that going to feed   ???


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

It is a deceptively small BBQ 

Those sausages are not much above chipolatas


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## harrow (Nov 9, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> how many people is that going to feed   ???



Depends how hungry you are :tongue:


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 9, 2016)

erm... and i did say I was a work in progress


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> It is a deceptively small BBQ
> *
> Those sausages are not much above chipolata*s




Who are you trying to convince !!!!!


unless you bought miniature salt shaker maybe    ....  :tongue:


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## trixie88 (Nov 9, 2016)

harrow said:


> I know the smell of cooking smoked haddock is not a good smell to have in the house during the winter :bow:




oh yes......topped with cheese and poached egg, with a bit of spinach  .    Hmmmmm  so good


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## saxonborg (Nov 10, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> I have a sort of long held dream to be able to walk down into  village and buy fish fresh off the trawlers, take them back to the camper, fillet, cook (alfresco) and enjoy.



Don't try to do it on the Isle of Skye as it all seems to be loaded from the trawler straight into the back of a foreign refrigerated artic!!!!!


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## delicagirl (Nov 10, 2016)

saxonborg said:


> Don't try to do it on the Isle of Skye as it all seems to be loaded from the trawler straight into the back of a foreign refrigerated artic!!!!!




Lobsters landed at Dunbar go into a truck and are in the south of France within 24 hours..... - the fishermen get a better price there - cant blame them for that.


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## saxonborg (Nov 10, 2016)

n brown said:


> i've only recently started eating fish, never really fancied food you might choke to death on, and tried filleting a salmon which was , ironically, on the salmonella shelf in Tescos, £13 ta.
> you need an extremely sharp knife, sharp enough to make you sweat a bit, and even after watching a Youtube instructional, i found the blade wandered a bit, leaving good size lumps on the spine, and even after filleting, there were some big bones that needed pliers to remove, and did a bit of damage to the meat. tried a cod after that, still struggling, so maybe i'll buy some sardines to practise a bit more, or just cook the gutted fish whole and scrape off the meat. oh, and all fish gets cooked outside the van/house on one of those cheapo gas rings



Try swordfish it's not as boney and it's very meaty.


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## runnach (Nov 10, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Lobsters landed at Dunbar go into a truck and are in the south of France within 24 hours..... - the fishermen get a better price there - cant blame them for that.


 Don't you believe it, one of our illustrious members works out of Dunbar , lobsters galore and has been known to take a few to meets in the highlands !!

my lips are sealed on the ID of this person, or I could tell yer but have to kill yer afterwards:lol-053:

A lot of our shellfish are exported to France and Spain spider crabs particularly. We just don't use them because they are fiddly yet their flavour is sublime.

It does frustrate me, A few years ago I was sous chef at a well known hotel in Beverley, menu revisited and the owners categorically stated they wanted a British menu. Here is the daft thing. Greenland Atlantic prawns or Thai for a prawn cocktail. We had Filey crab on our doorstep, Humberside largest producer of Pork in Europe, Rhubarb, vegetables , Wensleydale cheeses all Yorkshire. 

Its Fresh fantastic to work with, and it is traceable more to the point. Really sad really.We don't do it more and of course consumer demand dictates we can import foods out of season Israeli strawberries etc

Back to the OP's point you can cook fresh from scratch, quicker healthier and often cheaper than take aways or microwave food riddled with chemicals to stabilise and extend shelf life.

I have never lost the buzz and find it immensely satisfying starting from scratch and producing a dish .There is a completeness about it unlike some other things we do were it never ends

Channa


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## delicagirl (Nov 10, 2016)

i make my own curries and always alter the flavourings  every meal   -   a dash of this, pinch of that, none of that today so i rarely get the same flavour twice.

yesterday i found a sell-by  jar of madras curry sauce   -   really boring !!!


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## bellars (Nov 10, 2016)

I was a research scientist and university lecturer investigating the effects of lifestyle (including diet) on health. While diet plays a significant role in health its benefits are dramatically out-weighed by the effects of regular exercise. I'm not talking about running/cycling miles everyday or even attending a gym but brisk walking, gardening and even hoovering suffice. There is also increasing evidence that even being overweight but exercising regularly (>150 mins per week) (so called "fat fit") are on a similar health trajectory to lean exercisers and much better than those that are lean and sedentary.

Fat But Fit? Study Reveals That Fitness, Not Weight, Predicts Risk Of Early Death | Huffington Post

As for E numbers being evil - check out what E300, E101 or E306 are!


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## yorkslass (Nov 10, 2016)

n brown said:


> i've only recently started eating fish, never really fancied food you might choke to death on, and tried filleting a salmon which was , ironically, on the salmonella shelf in Tescos, £13 ta.
> you need an extremely sharp knife, sharp enough to make you sweat a bit, and even after watching a Youtube instructional, i found the blade wandered a bit, leaving good size lumps on the spine, and even after filleting, there were some big bones that needed pliers to remove, and did a bit of damage to the meat. tried a cod after that, still struggling, so maybe i'll buy some sardines to practise a bit more, or just cook the gutted fish whole and scrape off the meat. oh, and all fish gets cooked outside the van/house on one of those cheapo gas rings



Try tweezers Mr B, pretty good lo fish bones.


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## runnach (Nov 10, 2016)

bellars said:


> I was a research scientist and university lecturer investigating the effects of lifestyle (including diet) on health. While diet plays a significant role in health its benefits are dramatically out-weighed by the effects of regular exercise. I'm not talking about running/cycling miles everyday or even attending a gym but brisk walking, gardening and even hoovering suffice. There is also increasing evidence that even being overweight but exercising regularly (>150 mins per week) (so called "fat fit") are on a similar health trajectory to lean exercisers and much better than those that are lean and sedentary.
> 
> Fat But Fit? Study Reveals That Fitness, Not Weight, Predicts Risk Of Early Death | Huffington Post
> 
> As for E numbers being evil - check out what E300, E101 or E306 are!



Actually I think you are the first to mention e numbers, At the end of the day as I see it they are no more than a classification system of additives or in some cases components of an ingredient eg turmeric a natural product.

E951 Aspartame as you are very well aware under the microscope. Do the benefits outweigh the negatives is the acid question. E223 also found in kitchen detergents. My point is there are good and bad ones but how does the average Joe work it all out ? 

I do agree though, lifestyle choices are an important part of the equation, walking to the shop for a newspaper rather than taking the car. walking to the next bus stop rather than the closest on a visit to town.

Channa


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## maingate (Nov 10, 2016)

I don't see many obese dog walkers Andrew.


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## Rob H (Nov 10, 2016)

*The pice of processed.*



Ed on Tour said:


> I have been looking closely at the contents and doing a little internet research on  what actually goes in and how much of it, to the processed food we buy.
> _
> 1. Artificial Sweeteners
> 
> ...



You're addressing the converted, Fully agree with your comments, wifey and I have altered our nutrition to reduce / remove additives from our intake, ... feel better, weight loss to a more respectable weight, blood pressure and cholesterol are well inside recommended norms, bonus .. higher quality unadulterated foods taste better, whats not to like.

Rgrds,

Rob H.


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## Clunegapyears (Nov 11, 2016)

*The dog's gone healthy too!*

We already eat pretty healthy - cook from scratch and I don't touch bread or pasta etc.   Try to be a bit along Palio lines. 
Oscar our rescue Welsh springer was on Arden grange with his previous owner and I won't go into graphic detail but faeces were too often and very moist!  Switched to an 80/20 grain free and "perfect poos"!  What goes in comes out for any animal!


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## n brown (Nov 11, 2016)

tonight i'll make Bengali patties from some 5% pork mince i got off the salmonella shelf in tesco, reduced from £3 to 90p. mix with chopped onion, garam masala ,cayenne pepper and fresh coriander and fried in olive oil with bombay spuds. 
as you say , butcher's sausages , made from meat , a bit of rusk and seasoning in natural, not plastic, skins, are fine to eat. at about 8 to a pound for £3 60. that's 4 meals worth , with spud and greens, a cheap,but good quality, meal imo
sourdough bread from tesco is also good. maybe a bit dear, but some things are worth paying a bit extra


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## runnach (Nov 11, 2016)

conchiglie pasta is my favourite, I prefer in bologneses rather than spaghetti ..As David says you get bits of sauce and meat in the shells.really satysifying meal
garlic buttered baguette , glass of wine simple but beautiful 

Channa


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## GreggBear (Nov 11, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Well done that is a massive achievement..... :goodluck:  i hope you are giving yourself non-food rewards ??



Certainly am... Ambulance back from welders is this month's big treat for me! Thanks for the kind words:wave::wave::wave::dance:


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## n brown (Nov 11, 2016)

just finished them , with a bit of fresh salad , mayo and the bombay spuds , my biggest accolade is that i would have been happy to be served a meal like that in a restaurant, instead of the disappointing overhyped stuff i usually get.
as for the sourdough, by the length of time it takes to toast i can tell there's little sugar in it,but if i could find a genuine baguette , and believe me i've looked, i'd eat them daily !


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## sparrks (Nov 11, 2016)

When people learn to eat the correct foods and eat what their body requires rather than what they can eat, then the obesity problem will disappear. The eat all you can shops should be shut down.


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## trevskoda (Nov 11, 2016)

maingate said:


> I don't see many obese dog walkers Andrew.



No but i have seen many obese dogs being walked,or draged.


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## trevskoda (Nov 11, 2016)

The killer here for years was the ulster fry,now replaced with fast food outlets which ever night passing i see them que up in there cars at t/time.
Me i eat and cook a lot of fish but have had strokes,the vet sorry doc told me its 50/50 what you eat and ones dna.
To cook fish without much pong,fillet fish and place on a plate then put about half a egg cup of water on plate and a small amount of butter on top of fish,place in m/wave at half power and about 3/4 mins it will be just right.
I do my veg in a steamer and spuds in jackets in m/wave,about 12 mins for 2 big uns.
Very little suger for me but love a bit of apple tart warmed with some milk and yogert over top or ice cream,yum yum.


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## runnach (Nov 12, 2016)

sparrks said:


> When people learn to eat the correct foods and eat what their body requires rather than what they can eat, then the obesity problem will disappear. The eat all you can shops should be shut down.



Overall I agree with you quality over quantity in an ideal world. A lot of the eat as much as you can outlets are not what they seem use smaller plates etc. And at the end of the day a marketing ploy to get bums on seats on the quiet days.

What annoys me more , to the extent I shall use the word detest, are the growing number of outlets that cook stupid size portions and then challenge customers as to how quick they can scoff it ...In my opinion may as well serve dog food , because it is about gluttony rather than tasting flavours of the meal.

I find that disrespectful to customers and the industry 

Channa


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## delicagirl (Nov 12, 2016)

GreggBear said:


> Hi. don't know if you watch *Ray Meers* at all but he did a programme think it was from Sweden, where he demonstrated how to r*emove the bones from a whole salmon*. Took no time at all and looked a very quick and easy method. Can't see why it wouldn't work on other types of fish. Hope that helps.




The difference between removing bones from a fish fresh out of the water, and removing them from a fish which could be weeks old having been caught off Iceland on huge fish factories, and frozen/chilled till sale   is chalk and cheese.

With a Really Fresh fish  - usually the whole skeleton comes away in one piece and there is rarely the need for tweezers -  the flavour is altogether more intense and the flesh softer and whiter and livelier somehow.....


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## delicagirl (Nov 12, 2016)

"Originally Posted by sparrks  
When people learn to eat the correct foods and eat what their body requires rather than what they can eat, then the obesity problem will disappear. "

losing a lot of weight is far more complex than folks imagine, and a lot of it is in the mind. However  some of it is that the body changes its habits as it  gets fatter and fatter.   Many obese folks simply dont recognise the bodily sensations of feeling hungry or feeling full, as some of the bodily mechanism stop working as weight increases.   So his double whammy leads to overeating.

the programme that helped me the most ran a counselling group every week  - initially to identify why we learnt to use food inappropriately   (food does not mend a broken heart, nor relieve boredom, nor dissipate anger).

Many of us were told

"eat whats on your plate, the african babies are dieing"   -  as if the two were connected in some immediate way.
"I've cooked all day to prepare this food and you wont eat it all"   -  emotional blackmail at its best.

There are many illogical things we were taught as children about food that stay with us as adults.  WE need to change those messages. 

Losing weight, and keeping it off,  needs a head-change FOR LIFE.   Its no good "going on a diet"  - most of those who diet return to their old habits and the body then become even fatter.    Those who see a weight loss programme as a permanent and complete life-style change, can, and do, look forward with positivity to the benefits of becoming well and fit again.  

Learning  to eat the correct food, and learning how much the body requires, is quite a long process to get right and needs perseverance.   Calculating how much food to eat on an exercise day, and on a sedentary day can be tricky - but after a while it becomes second nature.

If i was asked what were the 3 most important things i learned   -     1) stop buying elasticated waist clothes  -  2) weigh at least twice a week  -   and 3) use a smaller plate   -  if you don't know you have put on a pound or two,  you wont be able to nip it in the bud before it becomes a stone or two. 

good luck everyone who is losing ....   good on ya


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## FULL TIMER (Nov 12, 2016)

harrow said:


> I think forget sugar tax.
> 
> The government should make GOOD foods cheaper. :wave:



It's partly down to the government that we have this obesity problem going on, encouraging everyone to eat low fat this and low fat that and that other killer the dreaded margarine, most of the time the fat that is removed is replaced with sugar  the less we allow the government to interfere with what we eat the better , I never touched margarine, have always had full fat milk, eggs,cheese and plenty of butter and very rarely add sugar to anything my cholesterol level is only 4.7, I wonder what it would have been if I had followed government advice. 
After a recent illness  a few weeks back caused by campylobacter  I lost a stone in three days since then I've stopped drinking during the week, knocked crisps and chocolate on the head and just about lost another stone. Mind you I'm still just over 16.5 stone so still plenty more to lose. I reckon I'll have to cut down on the weekend sessions


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## delicagirl (Nov 12, 2016)

FULL TIMER said:


> It's *partly down to the government that we have this obesity problem going on*, encouraging everyone to eat low fat this and low fat that and that other killer the dreaded margarine, most of the time the fat that is removed is replaced with sugar  the less we allow the government to interfere with what we eat the better , I never touched margarine, have always had full fat milk, eggs,cheese and plenty of butter and very rarely add sugar to anything my cholesterol level is only 4.7, I wonder what it would have been if I had followed government advice.
> After a recent illness  a few weeks back caused by campylobacter  I lost a stone in three days since then I've stopped drinking during the week, knocked crisps and chocolate on the head and just about lost another stone. Mind you I'm still just over 16.5 stone so still plenty more to lose. I reckon I'll have to cut down on the weekend sessions




 Obesity today may have something to do  with government. But is is also down to the relentless, half-truthful massive marketing campaigns of  "fast food"  by the likes of macdonalds, other burger companies, chocolate companies and the overall increase in portion-size.    The government saw fit to regulate cigarette advertising from the 1970's-80's and sales have gone down.  If sugary foods adverts  were similarly regulated this could help stop the young seeing  quite so many seductive images around them. 

The link between overweight and diabetes was reckonised in 1720's  -  so we can hardly blame Mrs May for 300 years of over-eating.....


The connection was made in 1720's between obesity and diabetes......


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## yorkieowl (Nov 12, 2016)

I wish the daily intake was 4050 calories, I wouldn't be obese.


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## yorkslass (Nov 12, 2016)

IMO, we a need change of direction, obviously starting at home, but being encouraged at school. All they seem to care about is academic achievement instead of teaching from a young age how to cook, basic nutrition and budgeting. To me, those are the basic building blocks of life, along with the 3Rs. I know this should start at home, but with a generation or so missing out on life lessons, mums working, and making crap food more affordable than fresh food, we need to start again. When I cook for my grandson, I let him decide what he wants on his plate. The only thing I insist on, is that he eats what he has chosen. This way he doesn't pile his plate but knows he can have more if he wants.


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## delicagirl (Nov 12, 2016)

womens daily recommended  calorie intake is 2000-3000 depending on the amount of exercise undertaken


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## bellars (Nov 12, 2016)

Obviously calorie consumption exceeding calorie expenditure explains much (most?) of the obesity problem, but there are other factors. For example, there is a theory called the developmental (or foetal) orgins of adult disease (sometimes called the Barker hypothesis) that may help to explain some obesity and also the phenomenon that many will know. We probably all know someone who can eat what they like and are as thin as a rake, while others only have to look at a biscuit to put weight on. The theory goes that a foetus developing in the womb experiences the environment via its mother's blood, if the mother is pourly nourished in terms of vitamins, minerals, protein, etc then the foetus "programmes" its metabolism to expect a nutritionally-poor environment when it's born. Since most now live in a nutritionally-rich environment but many have the "wrong" metabolism that maximises the efficiency with which it uses calories leading to weight gain.

Perhaps the best evidence to support this theory comes from people that were born to mothers who experienced the Dutch Hunger Winter in 1944-45 (parts of Holland experienced a famine as a result of a Nazi blockade). These people have a greater incidence of metabolic diseases including obesity, diabetes, CVD, etc.


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## bellars (Nov 12, 2016)

Not disputing that (I did state it at the start of my post) but I was just presenting a scientific theory that explains some obesity and maybe contributes to the dramatic rise in childhood obesity i.e. an increase in obese mums with a poor diet leads to an increase in metabolically compromised children. I wasn't providing an excuse to be fat but may be providing some understanding of why some people struggle with their weight. After all, an understanding of (some of) the physiological mechanisms behind obesity may lead to improved treatments.

For example, many of the subjects from the dutch hunger winter have siblings born when the mum wasn't nutritionally-compromised and therefore don't suffer the obesity and health consequences yet probably have very similar diets to their less fortunate siblings. What you're saying is that their problems are their fault. I'm suggesting that isn't fair.


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## maingate (Nov 12, 2016)

We had one of our Grandsons staying with us for a few months last year because he had fallen out with his Mother (our Sons ex Wife). He was always podgy and she cannot cook very well.

In that time he was with us, his body shape altered a lot as he also joined a Gym (although he did not go mad with his training). It seems it had been his diet that had been affecting his shape and general fitness. He is back home but maintains a more healthy diet rather than depend on what his Mother dishes up.

The type of exercise can affect body shape as well. My Son was always fit and enjoyed running but he also took up Boxing. It improved his upper body strength trememdously and he developed more muscle tone.

There again, diet is not everything. I had a very poor diet at the same time as working 100+ of physical work every week. I had muscles in my spit and a 6 pack to be jealous of. Sadly, the 6 pack is now a small barrel. :sad:


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## Obanboy666 (Nov 12, 2016)

Well you must have a physic like mr Universe if 6'2" and 105kg. You may look ok but you cannot see the internal fat around organs etc. You mention your son at 80kg @ 6' all muscle etc and fit. So your 2" height advantage over your son is according to you ok to carry an extra 25kg, I don't think so !
You are making excuses, I was 15 1/2 stone @ 5'10". Now 11 1/2 stone. Feel much healthier, arthritic knees much improved etc, etc.
Lose a couple of stone, you'll much better.


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## runnach (Nov 12, 2016)

yorkslass said:


> IMO, we a need change of direction, obviously starting at home, but being encouraged at school. All they seem to care about is academic achievement instead of teaching from a young age how to cook, basic nutrition and budgeting. To me, those are the basic building blocks of life, along with the 3Rs. I know this should start at home, but with a generation or so missing out on life lessons, mums working, and making crap food more affordable than fresh food, we need to start again. When I cook for my grandson, I let him decide what he wants on his plate. The only thing I insist on, is that he eats what he has chosen. This way he doesn't pile his plate but knows he can have more if he wants.



I wanted to give two likes for this I think you are bang on the nail, I couldn't agree more.

There seems to be a lost generation of younger people whom are incapable of cooking other than re heating pre prepared meals in a microwave. I find that really sad.

Everything in moderation in my mind is ok, there seems to be 101 reasons psychological, poor lifestyle etc  lack of exercise etc as to why people put weight on.
Bellars sharing of the foetal theory is interesting and makes sense to me.

To change things I agree it ideally starts at home, but a lot of homes don't have the skillset so it needs to be schools. It should be a compulsory subject from a very young age. Younger children don't seem scared making mistakes and that's always a good thing when learning

Channa


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## yorkieowl (Nov 12, 2016)

My other half is 6'3" 83-85kg and is still no stick insect, he isn't 'fat' either mind but could easily lose another 5kg, and not be too skinny, but as he is one that eats what he wants, when he wants his current weight is right for him, he would be starving all the time if he lost anymore.  When we cut out all processed, no bread, no processed meats (sausages etc), limited our intake of wholemeal pasta, no cereals etc I still struggled to get below 14 stone, and I didn't sit around all day, but I still had a reasonably big appetite, so to lose more I would have had to go hungry. (I did the filling up with veg so that didn't work).


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## trevskoda (Nov 12, 2016)

David you are not doing to bad for 72 as the gray cells are working and you can get up each morning to a nice lass,what else could you ask for,remember to be good to your son for it is he who will be picking your care home.


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## Obanboy666 (Nov 12, 2016)

You are doing better than me ! I carried 6 x 25kgs of coal in yesterday and to be honest I was all aches and pains this morning.
I agree the bmi is just a guide, take me for example. No one could believe I was 15 1/2 stone, I carried it well, my mother used to say I was heavy boned ? God knows where that one comes from lol.


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## trevskoda (Nov 12, 2016)

Ok so i know about the porky over eaters but im as fit as a fiddle and can carry a car engine ,so what i have had 3 minor strokes and now there sending me for the tread mill to test hart.
My doctor who play ruger and does the belfast marathon & others has just had a triple bypass,50% is the dna from parents and back further.
Mind you this is no excuse for what i see going into folks shopping trols in asda/tesco,why do they require 10 bottles of coke 2 cartons of bear ,vodka, wine and the compulsory carton of fags and a very small amount of food which is mostly package crap as they wheeze there way on the dla walking stick to the c/out.


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## big tom (Nov 12, 2016)

None of this applies to people born in late 30’s  early 40’s you ate what you were given no other option leave any and it was before you at the next meal, I was twelve when I came of the ration book ,another thing that we were told later on was always leave the table when you could eat more, I suppose an upbringing like this lead me to think food was a necessity rather than to  be enjoyed but when I married things changed for the better, we have just had our Golden Wedding and I can honestly say I have never complained about my food but that could be put down to my wife being a good cook, our upbringings were similar so food is not wasted, at seventy six I have never been overweight and exercise regularly twelve miles every other day on my bike if the weather is bad I have a turbo trainer in the garage for the bike, I don’t carry my bike with the van I go walking instead, each year I fit a big one (to me) this was Helvellyn via Striding Edge return Swirral Edge this year, I left Green side camp site at 4.30 am to be on my own and enjoy the solitary. On the alcohol 2/3 pints most nights sometimes Red Wine in the winter a tot of Captain Morgan before I go out. Being twelve miles from the nearest town solves the fast food problem.


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## trevskoda (Nov 12, 2016)

big tom said:


> None of this applies to people born in late 30’s  early 40’s you ate what you were given no other option leave any and it was before you at the next meal, I was twelve when I came of the ration book ,another thing that we were told later on was always leave the table when you could eat more, I suppose an upbringing like this lead me to think food was a necessity rather than to  be enjoyed but when I married things changed for the better, we have just had our Golden Wedding and I can honestly say I have never complained about my food but that could be put down to my wife being a good cook, our upbringings were similar so food is not wasted, at seventy six I have never been overweight and exercise regularly twelve miles every other day on my bike if the weather is bad I have a turbo trainer in the garage for the bike, I don’t carry my bike with the van I go walking instead, each year I fit a big one (to me) this was Helvellyn via Striding Edge return Swirral Edge this year, I left Green side camp site at 4.30 am to be on my own and enjoy the solitary. On the alcohol 2/3 pints most nights sometimes Red Wine in the winter a tot of Captain Morgan before I go out. Being twelve miles from the nearest town solves the fast food problem.



Medical fact if you drinking more than 3 pints a week then you are classed as a alco and should seek help,my mate sinks at least 16 pints a night,me 2 in last year.


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## bellars (Nov 13, 2016)

I can provide lots of references supporting the validity of the science, would you like to read more? As an (ex-)scientist evidence is THE most important thing to me. 

I agree, excess food for a metabollically compromised child is, in my opinion, clearly more dangerous but the point is how do you recognise a "metabolically compromised child" before it's too late?


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## bellars (Nov 13, 2016)

Obanboy666 said:


> You may look ok but you cannot see the internal fat around organs etc. .



Nail on head! Visceral fat (that around organs) is significantly more metabolically active, pumping out inflammatory molecules such as TNF and interleukins, which promote chronic diseases such as CVD, cancer, etc, compared with subcutaneous fat, which is more benign. Exercise preferentially targets visceral fat.


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## trixie88 (Nov 13, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Ok so i know about the porky over eaters but im as fit as a fiddle and can carry a car engine ,so what i have had 3 minor strokes and now there sending me for the tread mill to test hart.
> My doctor who play ruger and does the belfast marathon & others has just had a triple bypass,50% is the dna from parents and back further.
> Mind you this is no excuse for what i see going into folks shopping trols in asda/tesco,why do they require 10 bottles of coke 2 cartons of bear ,vodka, wine and the compulsory carton of fags and a very small amount of food which is mostly package crap as they wheeze there way on the dla walking stick to the c/out.



TOO ALL YOU YOUNG MEN (at head and heart) out there,   WORD OF WARNING.   you maybe able to do all this weight lifting,  however,  REM
RE
REMEMBER your back bones are not as strong or dense as they used to be////....they can crack and fracture without warning.

THEN YOU ARE UP THE CREAK WITHOUT A PADDLE.......I know to my peril.

please be careful  and take care


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 13, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Medical fact if you drinking more than 3 pints a week then you are classed as a alco and should seek help,my mate sinks at least 16 pints a night,me 2 in last year.






Not looking good for me then      :scared:     

I sought help with my drinking but they told me that i had to go and buy my own from the supermarket      :sad:


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## Deleted member 13543 (Nov 13, 2016)

yorkieowl said:


> Try reading Zoe Harcombes book, I found it a good read, and her diet worked for us, although due to health problems I let it slide, and have gained a lot of weight, and am finding it difficult to get fully back into, but our diet even now, is much better than before.



Thank you for that, Yorkieowl, I've downloaded 2 of her books, and am currently reading Diet & Health Today - Volume 1.  It confirms what I already suspected - that the advice for diabetic diets is not only misleading, but dangerous!  We are being encouraged to eat the worst possible thing for our health, carbohydrates!!  I'm also glad I refused to take statins, as lowering your cholesterol levels is MORE likely to lead to heart problems, not the other way round! Bring on the butter!! 

I don't know when we will actually embark on the actual diet, but we will certainly try to cut down the highly processed carbs, and eat more protein and vegetables.  My husband is delighted, as now he thinks he can have streaky (belly) pork and savoy cabbage to his heart's content, and it will do less harm than his beloved saffron cakes!!


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## yorkslass (Nov 13, 2016)

kernowprickles said:


> Thank you for that, Yorkieowl, I've downloaded 2 of her books, and am currently reading Diet & Health Today - Volume 1.  It confirms what I already suspected - that the advice for diabetic diets is not only misleading, but dangerous!  We are being encouraged to eat the worst possible thing for our health, carbohydrates!!  I'm also glad I refused to take statins, as lowering your cholesterol levels is MORE likely to lead to heart problems, not the other way round! Bring on the butter!!
> 
> I don't know when we will actually embark on the actual diet, but we will certainly try to cut down the highly processed carbs, and eat more protein and vegetables.  My husband is delighted, as now he thinks he can have streaky (belly) pork and savoy cabbage to his heart's content, and it will do less harm than his beloved saffron cakes!!



Reading's the easy bit :goodluck:

I also said no to statins. I think they may have a use if you have heart problems, but not before.


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## Ed on Toast (Nov 13, 2016)

What a great and informative thread. 

It has gone of a most interesting and challenging wander, that i had hoped.

Thank you to all who have answered my initial question AND many, many more i had not thought of.

I really feel a 'Cook n Show'  meet in the future.

Obviously, before that can happen i need to find a recipe for a healthy pie, served in a pub..... but i am currently researching it 

:nicethread:


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## runnach (Nov 13, 2016)

I accept diet and exercise are intrinsically linked, but you might find this interesting it is often called the French Paradox, a bit of a long read but stick with it

French paradox - Wikipedia 

I find this part particularly interesting, How much do lifestyle choices or indeed for a lot are not choices but inflicted upon us by our social norms

"
The French are well known [according to whom?] for leading lifestyles that are relatively lower in stress when compared to the US and other cultures. They take long lunch breaks where they connect with friends and family, along with longer vacations in the summer.[vague] They have a controversial 35-hour work week. All of these result in a less stressed populace. Some scientists theorize heart disease is strongly linked to an overactive sympathetic nervous system (which can be triggered by stress), and this may also in part explain why beta blockers have been shown to reduce mortality in heart patients by blocking the stress hormone, adrenaline."

I suppose I am suggesting a lot of our eating habits are borne from our social circumstances which are far reaching, our housing and neighbourhood, expected work practises. Does stress in some way influence our diets and it interacts somehow in a negative way with stress.? 

Possibly ? one of the things to consider re diet is the impact of our lifestyles.

Channa


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## runnach (Nov 13, 2016)

I agree David, In my mind social factors and expectations in UK culture add pressure to how people lead their lives. Can you imagine suggesting we take a two hour lunch break ? you would be flogged , people stuff a sandwich whilst working still, Why ? martyrs or slaves to the cause ? Non of it makes sense. there needs to be a balance something which the brits  as a rule don't understand 

Channa


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## Private (Nov 13, 2016)

*Pampered*

Most people pamper themselves too much with food; a doctrine currently in full flow supported by celebrity chefs. It's not a treat, it's a necessity to live. 
We often cook once (fresh food) and eat the same prepared meal up to 3 meals running (barring breakfast); something many scoff at (excuse the pun). Saves time, cost and eliminates the feeling of needing to eat it all at once to prevent wastage. 
Food is fuel, being alive is the pleasure.


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## Caz (Nov 13, 2016)

Posted by Richard Gere on his facebook page today:

"My friend's mom has eaten healthy all her life. Never ever consumed alcohol or any "bad" food, exercised every day, very limber, very active, took all supplements suggested by her doctor, never went in the sun without sunscreen and when she did it was for as short a period as possible- so pretty much she protected her health with the utmost that anyone could. She is now 76 and has skin cancer, bone marrow cancer and extreme osteoporosis.
My friend's father eats bacon on top of bacon, butter on top of butter, fat on top of fat, never and I mean never exercised, was out in the sun burnt to a crisp every summer, he basically took the approach to live life to his fullest and not as others suggest. He is 81 and the doctors says his health is that of a young person.
People you cannot hide from your poison. It's out there and it will find you so in the words of my friend's still living mother: " if I would have known my life would end this way I would have lived it more to the fullest enjoying everything I was told not to!"


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## runnach (Nov 13, 2016)

Private said:


> Most people pamper themselves too much with food; a doctrine currently in full flow supported by celebrity chefs. It's not a treat, it's a necessity to live.
> We often cook once (fresh food) and eat the same prepared meal up to 3 meals running (barring breakfast); something many scoff at (excuse the pun). Saves time, cost and eliminates the feeling of needing to eat it all at once to prevent wastage.
> Food is fuel, being alive is the pleasure.



I think in one paragraph you have condensed all that is wrong !. Food is fuel,being alive is the pleasure, then why shouldn't food be part of that pleasure ? If we cook in a manner to save time , for what reason are we saving that time ? Whilst I respect your outlook I don't understand it but I guess all of us being different adds variety.

I think we all use "leftovers " for the next meal I don't like waste either, But If I am cooking enough for 6 meals you say we so I assume you have a partner, are you perhaps not buying too much ?

As for the celeb chefs I think that is changing , the programmes with Fillet Mignon and a truffle sauce seem over, More likely to see them cooking ox tail or brisket out of fashion cuts that are still tasty.

I lived and worked in France for a while and I do believe they have got it right , medical people agree the main meal of the day eaten at lunchtime is healthier in the respect our bodies have the remainder of the day to digest properly. That aside , the Med countries particularly seem to make even the modest of meals a social occasion, and they seem to live long and happy lives. Food is a multi fuel that allows being alive a pleasure

Channa


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## yorkslass (Nov 13, 2016)

channa said:


> I think in one paragraph you have condensed all that is wrong !. Food is fuel,being alive is the pleasure, then why shouldn't food be part of that pleasure ? If we cook in a manner to save time , for what reason are we saving that time ? Whilst I respect your outlook I don't understand it but I guess all of us being different adds variety.
> 
> I think we all use "leftovers " for the next meal I don't like waste either, But If I am cooking enough for 6 meals you say we so I assume you have a partner, are you perhaps not buying too much ?
> 
> ...



Celebrity chefs are a pain in the ar*e. They pick up on cheap cuts, and suddenly they aren't cheap anymore. Nearly need a second mortgage for oxtail and neck of lamb, and if it's prepacked, not enough to feed a mouse.

Have to agree with you about food though, it's one of the pleasures in life.


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## Myrkk (Nov 13, 2016)

Actually, I disagree.  
As a fit fat person who exercise 4 nights a week with a healthy diet, it has become apparent I have auto immune issues.  It frustrates me when people tell me I just need to eat less.  In fact even my GP told me this when I went in with my less than 1200cal/day food  diary.  Fast forward a year and they've found that although my thyroid shows euthyroid I have an antibody level off the the scale I. E should be less than 5.6 is over 1000.  Nothing they can/will do at the moment but it affects my health.
Please do not tar everyone with the same brush.  WHAT you put in does not necessarily refect your size


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## Private (Nov 14, 2016)

*Meals*



channa said:


> I think in one paragraph you have condensed all that is wrong !. Food is fuel,being alive is the pleasure, then why shouldn't food be part of that pleasure ? If we cook in a manner to save time , for what reason are we saving that time ? Whilst I respect your outlook I don't understand it but I guess all of us being different adds variety.
> 
> I think we all use "leftovers " for the next meal I don't like waste either, But If I am cooking enough for 6 meals you say we so I assume you have a partner, are you perhaps not buying too much ?
> 
> ...



I should probably have written 'meals' as opposed to food. 
Of course eating food can be a real pleasure. Meals are a necessity but eating them for pleasure is not, in my view. I don't choose to watch celeb food TV but when I see snippets they always seem to be adding unnecessary ingredients to simple foods which loads them with calories. For example adding cream to main/savoury meals seems madness to me. Even adding butter to potatoes is unnecessary, never mind the cream. Potatoes washed, cooked, served works well enough.
I understand if cooking is someone's pleasure then they will wish to experiment and the enjoyment is as much in the preparation as the eating. For most though, eating is just a necessity & people should not be feeling the pressure that is currently being applied to over complicate meals.
If you look at the recipes in old cooking books they are far simpler & less ingredient laden. Yes, mashed potato can have cream added to make it tastier and roast potatoes can be covered in goose fat for extra flavour but it is all less healthy yet sold to us that way almost every time now. Just Google (I actually used Ecosia) "mashed potato" and the BBC recipe comes almost top of the search & it includes butter & double cream. ( BBC Food - Recipes - Mashed potatoes )
For restaurants it is essential that their food taste special to make sure you return but for a home made meal the simple, plain recipe should be the norm to save the calorie intake for a genuine, occasional treat, not a daily one.


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## yorkieowl (Nov 14, 2016)

kernowprickles said:


> Thank you for that, Yorkieowl, I've downloaded 2 of her books, and am currently reading Diet & Health Today - Volume 1.  It confirms what I already suspected - that the advice for diabetic diets is not only misleading, but dangerous!  We are being encouraged to eat the worst possible thing for our health, carbohydrates!!  I'm also glad I refused to take statins, as lowering your cholesterol levels is MORE likely to lead to heart problems, not the other way round! Bring on the butter!!
> 
> I don't know when we will actually embark on the actual diet, but we will certainly try to cut down the highly processed carbs, and eat more protein and vegetables.  My husband is delighted, as now he thinks he can have streaky (belly) pork and savoy cabbage to his heart's content, and it will do less harm than his beloved saffron cakes!!



Maybe not belly pork, but we did eat bacon, eggs, and tomatoes every day for breakfast on the diet, as much as we wanted to fill up, and was surprised to find we still lost weight.


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## Geraldine (Nov 14, 2016)

Ed on Tour said:


> There is also Pink Slime but i left that out as it was dinner time
> 
> [video=youtube;jXJSmxi2buc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXJSmxi2buc[/video]
> 
> Nicer clip for meal time



This is a good thread.Making us aware of the s**t that goes into processed food.
Hot dog is one of the main foods of Iceland at 400 kronor cheaper than chips at 1100 K
I had one while out there only after reading reviews that the main meat was lamb.
Not too sure now!


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## Robmac (Nov 14, 2016)

kernowprickles said:


> Thank you for that, Yorkieowl, I've downloaded 2 of her books, and am currently reading Diet & Health Today - Volume 1.  It confirms what I already suspected - that the advice for diabetic diets is not only misleading, but dangerous!  We are being encouraged to eat the worst possible thing for our health, carbohydrates!!  I'm also glad I refused to take statins, as lowering your cholesterol levels is MORE likely to lead to heart problems, not the other way round! Bring on the butter!!
> 
> I don't know when we will actually embark on the actual diet, but we will certainly try to cut down the highly processed carbs, and eat more protein and vegetables.  My husband is delighted, as now he thinks he can have streaky (belly) pork and savoy cabbage to his heart's content, and it will do less harm than his beloved saffron cakes!!



I recently took myself off of Statins. I was getting giddy spells all the time and suffered from Gout.

Since stopping the Statins, both have gone and I've never felt better.


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## runnach (Nov 14, 2016)

Private said:


> I should probably have written 'meals' as opposed to food.
> Of course eating food can be a real pleasure. Meals are a necessity but eating them for pleasure is not, in my view. I don't choose to watch celeb food TV but when I see snippets they always seem to be adding unnecessary ingredients to simple foods which loads them with calories. For example adding cream to main/savoury meals seems madness to me. Even adding butter to potatoes is unnecessary, never mind the cream. Potatoes washed, cooked, served works well enough.
> I understand if cooking is someone's pleasure then they will wish to experiment and the enjoyment is as much in the preparation as the eating. For most though, eating is just a necessity & people should not be feeling the pressure that is currently being applied to over complicate meals.
> If you look at the recipes in old cooking books they are far simpler & less ingredient laden. Yes, mashed potato can have cream added to make it tastier and roast potatoes can be covered in goose fat for extra flavour but it is all less healthy yet sold to us that way almost every time now. Just Google (I actually used Ecosia) "mashed potato" and the BBC recipe comes almost top of the search & it includes butter & double cream. ( BBC Food - Recipes - Mashed potatoes )
> For restaurants it is essential that their food taste special to make sure you return but for a home made meal the simple, plain recipe should be the norm to save the calorie intake for a genuine, occasional treat, not a daily one.



I find your observations interesting, and to an extent I agree with you. One chef I have immense respect for is Marco Pierre White for several reasons. He openly states a recipe is a set of guidleines add or remove ingredients to taste. That to me makes complete sense.

Whether we like it or not British food restaurant level at least is heavily influenced by the French, Early 20 th Century Auguste Escoffier revolutionised the industry in lots of ways introducing the idea of line chefs etc,That's before we talk of his influence on food. I think it is also fair to say that until recently most catering colleges used his work as a template A lot still do. No two ways about it Roux family, MPW, Ramsey Rhodes Turner Martin and countless others we don't see on tv are from the era that where ever they trained Escoffier was an influence.

Butter and cream therefore historically are staple ingredients in the kitchen, a lot of sauces use them as a base etc. But this leads me back to the question How come we have the French Paradox with lower incidence of obesity and heart diseases etc. I accept there are arguments it is an illusion in the context of how data is collected, that is a discussion in itself.

I suppose what I am trying to suggest or asking is whether there is a link between our modern lifestyles and some of the illness people suffer from.

Does it induce a chemical reaction within the body that the chemical structure of enzymes etc become compromised, and that's what is leading to the problems.

I suspect Bellars is the person best qualified to answer that.

All interesting stuff

Channa


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## delicagirl (Nov 14, 2016)

channa said:


> I find your observations interesting, and to an extent I agree with you. One chef I have immense respect for is Marco Pierre White for several reasons. He openly states a recipe is a set of guidleines add or remove ingredients to taste. That to me makes complete sense.
> 
> Whether we like it or not British food restaurant level at least is heavily influenced by the French, Early 20 th Century Auguste Escoffier revolutionised the industry in lots of ways introducing the idea of line chefs etc,That's before we talk of his influence on food. I think it is also fair to say that until recently most catering colleges used his work as a template A lot still do. No two ways about it Roux family, MPW, Ramsey Rhodes Turner Martin and countless others we don't see on tv are from the era that where ever they trained Escoffier was an influence.
> 
> ...





i think it is undoubtedly true that lifestyle choices are paramount in attaining good health.  One  tabloid headline today was about the 75% increase in diabetes type 2.  This is almost solely due to poor diet and lack of exercise.

diabetes kills and  deaths  from it are on the rise - as are limb amputations. 

The globesity tragedy is now leading to the diabetes tragedy.


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## runnach (Nov 14, 2016)

I think you make valid points, People jumping in cars 25 degrees set and off they go for a hour or two each day commuting. I am back on the bike , bracing as they say in Skegness  but so far no colds,

Back to the food the thing that struck me in France is how many people grow their own vegetables, or keep hens , rabbits  etc pour la table .

Not only is it environmentally good, but the traceability of what is eaten is in the garden, I think it is fantastic. neighbours trading too, or arriving with gifts of produce. 

tomato fresh from the garden rubbed on bread ,,,,simple and delicious

Do I sound like I miss it ? 

Channa


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## bellars (Nov 14, 2016)

Myrkk said:


> Actually, I disagree.
> As a fit fat person who exercise 4 nights a week with a healthy diet, it has become apparent I have auto immune issues.  It frustrates me when people tell me I just need to eat less.  In fact even my GP told me this when I went in with my less than 1200cal/day food  diary.  Fast forward a year and they've found that although my thyroid shows euthyroid I have an antibody level off the the scale I. E should be less than 5.6 is over 1000.  Nothing they can/will do at the moment but it affects my health.
> Please do not tar everyone with the same brush.  WHAT you put in does not necessarily refect your size



It's becoming increasingly recognised that the gut (small and large intestine) is perhaps the most important organ of the immune sytem. It constantly has to discriminate "friend from foe" not just in the food we consume but from the presence of the trillions of bacteria that reside inside our guts, referred to as our microbiome (or microbiota). Each of us has a unique profile of bacteria made up of many different species (mostly good but some bad), which we usually acquire during vaginal birth and from our immediate, early life environment i.e. mum's skin, etc, so that by the age of 2ish our microbiome's are established and will stay pretty much the same throughout life but becoming less diverse (fewer species) as we age. It is thought that the microbiome is evolutionarily important for maximising the extraction of calories from plant-based, complex carbohydrates as we don't produce the enzymes that can digest these.

There is increasing evidence suggesting that a disturbed microbiome (an oversimplification but too many bad bacteria), a condition referred to as dysbiosis, is associated with many autoimmune conditions. While an association doesn't prove cause and effect, this intriguing observation is receiving a lot of attention. Indeed, there have been some amazing results from experiments with faecal transplantation, particularly in patients suffering from Crohn's disease or Ulcerative colitis (inflammatory bowel diseases), where cure rates approached 90%. This might gross some people out but faecal transplantation involves a course of antibiotics to wipe out the existing microbiome prior to the injection of a healthy donor's poo through a tube into the patient's gut leading to the colonisation of the gut with the new, healthy microbiome and a resolution of the inflammatory condition.

Interestingly, it has been shown that obese individuals have a different microbiome profile from lean individuals leading to the suggestion that their microbiomes may be more efficient at extracting calories. An experiment in mice tantalisingly showed that transplanting the microbiome from obese mice into lean mice induced obesity in those mice despite their diets remaining the same. Unfortunately I can't recall if they did the reverse and cured an obese mouse by transplanting a "lean" microbiome.

These observations have led to a rise in the USA of home experimenters performing faecal transplantations on themselves. I think you can even buy a kit off the internet but this is something I wouldn't recommend. Faeces also contains a lot of undesirables including viruses and those used in the lab-based studies have been extensively purified and profiled. There are of course alternatives, eating a diet containing lots of fibre promotes the growth of good bacteria, there are lots of live yoghurts (probiotics) available but there is still a question mark at how effective they are at (a) reaching the gut and (b) colonising it, there are also complex carbohydrates (prebiotics) available that function like fibre, you can also buy synbiotics which are combinations of probiotics and prebiotics.


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## maingate (Nov 14, 2016)

Robmac said:


> I recently took myself off of Statins. I was getting giddy spells all the time and suffered from Gout.
> 
> Since stopping the Statins, both have gone and I've never felt better.



I was on Simvastatin for a long time and read a very long thread on Motorhome Facts about them causing many side effects. One of them was joint pain. As most of my joints are knackered, I was unaware that this Statin was the root cause of my aches and pains. It was a big problem as we walk the dogs daily.

About 18 months ago I was sent for tests at the local Cardiology Department for Heart problems. I was able to convince the Cardiologist to recommend a different Statin as my GP would not change them (Simvastatin are a lot cheaper than the others). Since changing over to Atovorstatin, my aches and pains have reduced significantly, the Simvastatin HAD been the problem.

So if any of you are on Simvastatin, change to something else.


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## runnach (Nov 14, 2016)

bellars said:


> It's becoming increasingly recognised that the gut (small and large intestine) is perhaps the most important organ of the immune sytem. It constantly has to discriminate "friend from foe" not just in the food we consume but from the presence of the trillions of bacteria that reside inside our guts, referred to as our microbiome (or microbiota). Each of us has a unique profile of bacteria made up of many different species (mostly good but some bad), which we usually acquire during vaginal birth and from our immediate, early life environment i.e. mum's skin, etc, so that by the age of 2ish our microbiome's are established and will stay pretty much the same throughout life but becoming less diverse (fewer species) as we age. It is thought that the microbiome is evolutionarily important for maximising the extraction of calories from plant-based, complex carbohydrates as we don't produce the enzymes that can digest these.
> 
> There is increasing evidence suggesting that a disturbed microbiome (an oversimplification but too many bad bacteria), a condition referred to as dysbiosis, is associated with many autoimmune conditions. While an association doesn't prove cause and effect, this intriguing observation is receiving a lot of attention. Indeed, there have been some amazing results from experiments with faecal transplantation, particularly in patients suffering from Crohn's disease or Ulcerative colitis (inflammatory bowel diseases), where cure rates approached 90%. This might gross some people out but faecal transplantation involves a course of antibiotics to wipe out the existing microbiome prior to the injection of a healthy donor's poo through a tube into the patient's gut leading to the colonisation of the gut with the new, healthy microbiome and a resolution of the inflammatory condition.
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing your knowledge I for one find it fascinating, as I am sure so do many others ....please keep posting 

Channa


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## Obanboy666 (Nov 14, 2016)

maingate said:


> I was on Simvastatin for a long time and read a very long thread on Motorhome Facts about them causing many side effects. One of them was joint pain. As most of my joints are knackered, I was unaware that this Statin was the root cause of my aches and pains. It was a big problem as we walk the dogs daily.
> 
> About 18 months ago I was sent for tests at the local Cardiology Department for Heart problems. I was able to convince the Cardiologist to recommend a different Statin as my GP would not change them (Simvastatin are a lot cheaper than the others). Since changing over to Atovorstatin, my aches and pains have reduced significantly, the Simvastatin HAD been the problem.
> 
> So if any of you are on Simvastatin, change to something else.



Interesting, I'm on anti inflammatory tablets for my knackered knees and was put on statins and aspirins last year when my GP thought I may have circulation problems.
The consultant checked me over, no circulation problems. Mentioned the statins and aspirins to my GP who said just stay on them they will do no harm ???
I've had the 'runs' for want of a better word for 4 days, something I never normally get and a quick google search informed me it can be a side effect of statins.
Reckon I will give it another day then visit my GP and discuss stopping the statins and aspirins.


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## delicagirl (Nov 14, 2016)

bellars said:


> It's becoming increasingly recognised *that the gut (small and large intestine) is perhaps the most important organ of the immune sytem.* It constantly has to discriminate "friend from foe" not just in the food we consume but from the presence of the trillions of bacteria that reside inside our guts, referred to as our microbiome (or microbiota). Each of us has a unique profile of bacteria made up of many different species (mostly good but some bad), which we usually acquire during vaginal birth and from our immediate, early life environment i.e. mum's skin, etc, so that by the age of 2ish our microbiome's are established and will stay pretty much the same throughout life but becoming less diverse (fewer species) as we age. It is thought that the microbiome is evolutionarily important for maximising the extraction of calories from plant-based, complex carbohydrates as we don't produce the enzymes that can digest these.
> 
> There is increasing evidence suggesting that a disturbed microbiome (an oversimplification but too many bad bacteria), a condition referred to as dysbiosis, is associated with many autoimmune conditions. While an association doesn't prove cause and effect, this intriguing observation is receiving a lot of attention. Indeed, there have been some amazing results from experiments with faecal transplantation, particularly in patients suffering from Crohn's disease or Ulcerative colitis (inflammatory bowel diseases), where cure rates approached 90%. This might gross some people out but faecal transplantation involves a course of antibiotics to wipe out the existing microbiome prior to the injection of a healthy donor's poo through a tube into the patient's gut leading to the colonisation of the gut with the new, healthy microbiome and a resolution of the inflammatory condition.
> 
> ...





A few years ago in desperation because i was so poorly a friend recommended a De-tox week and i researched this and finally did it.  The food intake all week 6 vegetable smoothies  per day. They were delicious because of the different combinations, tasted sweet and very satisfying and filling.  Various supplements were also ingested to assist the body to evacuate its waste and heal itself. 

The week also included gentle exercise, some yoga stretching, walks, lots of rest and quiet times, and a really peaceful soothing atmosphere.  

The part of the treatment that had the most impact on my body was the 3 colonic irrigations which i received during that week.   I did a fair bit of reading at the Centre and realised that when we eat a low-fibre diet,  the digested food which is making its way to the outside world, is not the correct consistency and not all of it reaches the loo  -  some of it clings to the walls of the intestines and bowels and clogs up the system, but worst of all  -  it starts fermenting !!!   In some obese and very unhealthy individuals 40lbs of black sticky tarry toxic "sludge" can be evacuated by these colonics.   Whilst you are having the colonic you can look at the matter you are getting rid of -  i didn't want to look.  But the therapist can tell a  lot about your lifestyle and diet by looking at your poo.     Gillian O'Keefe was right !

Having got rid of this extraneous toxic burden, i felt a huge sense of relief, and had a sense of a lighter body - and my morning loo visits were altogether a fresher and less odiferous experience after that. 

It took me a while to get my head around all this, but, it was not a painful experience, a slight discomfort thats all.  

If your digestive system feels sluggish and turgid, through eating too much processed food and chemicals, then a colonic, or two,  would certainly "freshen up the system."


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## delicagirl (Nov 14, 2016)

Obanboy666 said:


> Interesting, I'm on anti inflammatory tablets for my knackered knees and was put on statins and aspirins last year when my GP thought I may have circulation problems.
> The consultant checked me over, no circulation problems. Mentioned the statins and aspirins to my GP who said just stay on them they will do no harm ???
> I've had the 'runs' for want of a better word for 4 days, something I never normally get and a quick google search informed me it can be a side effect of statins.
> Reckon I will give it another day then visit my GP and discuss stopping the statins and aspirins.



Statins are the subject of a lot of controversy  


5 Reasons Not to Take Statins - Health.com

There are much healthier ways to reduce cholesterol  -  boringly   -  same old   same  old   - lose weight exercise and eat properly....  but it works and with no drug input into our body


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## Obanboy666 (Nov 14, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Statins are the subject of a lot of controversy
> 
> 
> 5 Reasons Not to Take Statins - Health.com
> ...



Strange she put me on them, as my cholesterol was and still is well within normal levels. I do all the things you mention - I have lost 4st, bmi within healthy limits. Now eat far more healthier and dog walk 2 x 60 minutes a day.
Definitely going to discuss them with my GP.


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## bellars (Nov 14, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> worst of all  -  it starts fermenting !!!



I'm not sure about the benefits of colonic irrigation, it's not something I've investigated, but it's great it made you feel better. However, I would say that there are 3 mechanisms behind the massive health benefits of consuming more fibre;

1. It decreases transit time (time taken for a meal to be digested and excreted), decreasing the exposure time of the cells lining the gut to potentially toxic chemicals.
2. It promotes the growth of good bacteria
3. The good bacteria are good because they ferment the complex carbohydrates in fibre producing chemicals called short chain fatty acids, which have a multitude of beneficial effects in the gut cells including "calming" the immune system, causing (pre-) cancerous cells to commit suicide, etc.



delicagirl said:


> In some obese and very unhealthy individuals 40lbs of black sticky tarry toxic "sludge" can be evacuated by these colonics.



That seems an awful lot of material!


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## yorkieowl (Nov 14, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> If your digestive system feels sluggish and turgid, through eating too much processed food and chemicals, then a colonic, or two,  would certainly "freshen up the system."




Just a word of warning, this is not recommended if you have a UC, or any bowel problems as it can exacerbate the problems.

Thanks bellars, thats very interesting, my mum had UC (nearly killed her), and had a collostomy bag which couldn't be reversed for the last 35+ years of her life, it really impacted on her life and would have been fantastic if there had been an alternative. As Channa says, interesting stuff.


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## delicagirl (Nov 14, 2016)

Obanboy666 said:


> Strange she put me on them, as my cholesterol was and still is well within normal levels. I do all the things you mention - I have lost 4st, bmi within healthy limits. Now eat far more healthier and dog walk 2 x 60 minutes a day.
> Definitely going to discuss them with my GP.




Well done on the 4 stones....   thats a chunk of weight to lose.......do let us know how you get on at the docs


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## delicagirl (Nov 14, 2016)

bellars said:


> I'm not sure about the benefits of colonic irrigation, it's not something I've investigated, but it's great it made you feel better. However, I would say that there are 3 mechanisms behind the massive health benefits of consuming more fibre;
> 
> 1. It decreases transit time (time taken for a meal to be digested and excreted), decreasing the exposure time of the cells lining the gut to potentially toxic chemicals.
> 2. It promotes the growth of good bacteria
> ...



Much of my knowledge about this came from books i read at the DeTox clinic and most were written by Medics who specialised in this area  -   the photos  were not pretty !!!  Some of the research included weight and body measurements before and after an irrigation,  and  the excreted matter was also weighed.   40lbs is a rare scenario.


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## bellars (Nov 14, 2016)

Unfortunately, the scientific/medical community is split on the benefits and risks of statins. There are some that think they are the best preventive medicine available, costing literally pennies and shown to lower cholesterol (contributing to a decrease in CVD) but they may also have cancer preventive properties, therefore to them the benefits outweigh the risks. These medics suggest that everyone over the age of about 50 should take them. Others, however, argue that the population shouldn't be medicated in order to prevent a relatively small proportion of disease, especially when there are clearly side effects, i.e. the risks outweigh the benefits. If you are on statins (I'm not) I wouldn't stop taking them without talking to your GP.

There is a margarine brand and some yoghurt drinks that contain benecol that is proven to function like statins in reducing cholesterol.

In my opinion, aspirin is a miracle drug. There is a lot evidence showing it prevents CVD (heart attacks and strokes) and cancer. It's cheap and safe (it can cause gastric bleeding if taken on an empty stomach). I regularly (not every day) take a quarter of a tablet.


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## yorkieowl (Nov 14, 2016)

bellars said:


> In my opinion, aspirin is a miracle drug. There is a lot evidence showing it prevents CVD (heart attacks and strokes) and cancer. It's cheap and safe (it can cause gastric bleeding if taken on an empty stomach). I regularly (not every day) take a quarter of a tablet.



Unfortunately for me I'm allergic to aspirin, and apparently there is no substitute (according to my GP).


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## delicagirl (Nov 14, 2016)

yorkieowl said:


> Just a word of warning, *this is not recommended if you have a UC, or any bowel problems as it can exacerbate the problems.
> *
> Thanks bellars, thats very interesting, my mum had UC (nearly killed her), and had a collostomy bag which couldn't be reversed for the last 35+ years of her life, it really impacted on her life and would have been fantastic if there had been an alternative. As Channa says, interesting stuff.



Any responsible irrigation practitioner will do a full medical history before commencing.  If your body is not suitable for the invasive water cleanser there  are herbal remedies,  which when taken orally,  can also loosen and  strip the clinging toxic material from the insides of the intestines and the body then gets rid of its waste in the normal way - it takes a little longer.  

I forgot to say that after the irrigation, then taking pro-biotic tablets for a while will replace the good bacteria which has also been flushed away. 


Bellars -  i would be interested in your view of this science  -  which is where i went   Benefits of our Cleanse Retreat and Colonic Irrigation : Cleansing for Change


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## bellars (Nov 14, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Bellars -  i would be interested in your view of this science  -  which is where i went   Benefits of our Cleanse Retreat and Colonic Irrigation : Cleansing for Change



Sorry, but I don't think you're going to like my opinion but that's all it is (my opinion that is). I think this is pseudo-science at best and criminally misleading at worst. My specific area of scientific investigation was studying the role of diet, exercise and aging in colorectal cancer risk and so I collaborated mostly with gastroenterologists. They have never mentioned the phenomenon of mucoidal plaque and having regularly attended the colonoscopy clinic to collect samples, it's something I have never witnessed. Here is a picture from a routine scope, note how "clean" the bowel lining is with no evidence of black, tarry goo. I would say though that patients take powerful laxatives prior to being scoped.




The normal bowel is an amazing, self cleaning organ. The cells lining the gut produce mucous, which is present as two layers. The layer closest to the tissue is relatively thick and very viscous, which prevents bacteria "swimming" through it to contact the cells and triggering an immune response. There is also a looser, less viscous mucous layer above the thicker layer, which sloughs off acting as a lubricant for the passing faecal material.


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## delicagirl (Nov 14, 2016)

bellars said:


> Sorry, but I don't think you're going to like my opinion but that's all it is (my opinion that is). I think this is pseudo-science at best and criminally misleading at worst. My specific area of scientific investigation was studying the role of diet, exercise and aging in colorectal cancer risk and so I collaborated mostly with gastroenterologists. They have never mentioned the phenomenon of mucoidal plaque and having regularly attended the colonoscopy clinic to collect samples, it's something I have never witnessed. Here is a picture from a routine scope, note how "clean" the bowel lining is with no evidence of black, tarry goo. I would say though that patients take powerful laxatives prior to being scoped.
> 
> View attachment 48383
> 
> The normal bowel is an amazing, self cleaning organ. The cells lining the gut produce mucous, which is present as two layers. The layer closest to the tissue is relatively thick and very viscous, which prevents bacteria "swimming" through it to contact the cells and triggering an immune response. There is also a looser, less viscous mucous layer above the thicker layer, which sloughs off acting as a lubricant for the passing faecal material.





Thank you very much for your comments - i had forgotten about mucoidal plaque and so did did a swift google which confirm your views - which i accept as having much more authority than the owners of the retreat i went to.  

I don't believe the detox did me any harm, i ate well for a week, rested and stayed calm and it gave me a significantly positive psychological boost at a  difficult time in my life.  It was an expensive way to get that.  !!  But it made me start looking at my lack of good health, my ill body and fmy poor food intake and i believe that was the start of my journey back to health.


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## bellars (Nov 14, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Thank you very much for your comments - i had forgotten about mucoidal plaque and so did did a swift google which confirm your views - which i accept as having much more authority than the owners of the retreat i went to.
> 
> I don't believe the detox did me any harm, i ate well for a week, rested and stayed calm and it gave me a significantly positive psychological boost at a  difficult time in my life.  It was an expensive way to get that.  !!  But it made me start looking at my lack of good health, my ill body and fmy poor food intake and i believe that was the start of my journey back to health.



That's great, that is all you can ask of any treatment.


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## bellars (Nov 14, 2016)

channa said:


> Butter and cream therefore historically are staple ingredients in the kitchen, a lot of sauces use them as a base etc. But this leads me back to the question How come we have the French Paradox with lower incidence of obesity and heart diseases etc. I accept there are arguments it is an illusion in the context of how data is collected, that is a discussion in itself.
> 
> I suppose what I am trying to suggest or asking is whether there is a link between our modern lifestyles and some of the illness people suffer from.
> 
> ...



Red wine consumption used to be the favourite explanation for the French paradox. Red wine contains chemicals called polyphenols that can lower blood pressure and inhibit some metabolic processes. One such polyphenol called Reseveratrol received a lot of attention a few years ago because it was found to decrease the activity of an enzyme that is also decreased in various organisms (yeast, mice, nematodes, etc) during caloric restriction (restricting the intake of calories in these organisms leads to dramatic increases in their lifespans). Therefore, some unscrupulous individuals started peddling resveratrol as the elixir of life.

Polyphenols that are proven to lower blood pressure (vaso-dilatory) are also present in fruit, tea (particularly green tea) and high cocoa chocolate. They are generally bitter and astringent (dry your mouth out).

Of course, there are many plausible theories to explain various population-based phenomena and eating the main meal at lunch time, a less stressful lifestyle, etc are equally valid.

Much of the scientific evidence for lifestyle effects on health come from population-based cohort studies (epidemiology), in which dietary/lifestyle components of large numbers of individuals are collected together with health outcomes. Statistics-based analyses are then performed to determine if specific health outcomes associate with specific dietary/lifestyle components. While these can be informative, particularly those based on very large numbers of individuals, they are ultimately only indicative of an association (not cause and effect) and are plagued by confounding factors e.g. people who eat healthily tend to exercise more, etc, etc, making it difficult to tease out clear associations. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to study the effects of diet and lifestyle on health for a number of reasons. Unlike a drug, it's very hard (impossible) to do clinical trials on lifestyles. The effects of a change in lifestyle on health usually take a long time to be of a significant magnitude to be measurable. Finally, what is health anyway and how do you measure it?

"I suppose what I am trying to suggest or asking is whether there is a link between our modern lifestyles and some of the illness people suffer from." - definitely, the evidence for a detrimental effect of a western lifestyle on numerous chronic diseases is overwhelming e.g. here are a couple of figs. The first one shows the incidence of colorectal cancer in various regions of the world, clearly CRC is a western disease. The second shows the rise in incidence in Japan and mirrors the adoption of a western lifestyle.



edit: the second figure hasn't come across well, the red line is CRC incidence in the UK, blue line is Japan and the y-axis is male cases per 100,000 per year. The x-axis should read years from 1960 to 1990.


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## runnach (Nov 14, 2016)

Thank you for answering the question.

I notice with interest the "spikes" between male and  female incidence. 

If we were to take Australia and Japan for example, would the differences be partly the effect of menopause,( my point chemical changes in the body) and perhaps Japanese women opposed to their male counterparts have retained a more traditional lifestyle ?.( particularly dietary)

This might interest people, earlier this year I was involved with a restaurant and Head Chef decided to revisit the menu which that in itself is not unusual, What was unusual is I was 18 years the elder of Adam head chef and TJ the third chef is 22.

Predictably I am all butter, cream, wine, Bordelaise sauces, etc Bob the owner 72 loved it etc. Adam bought in big style some of his ideas far more contemporary which I would expect. TJ meantime was like having a discussion with a dietician and nutrition expert !

I don't know if this is typical, but if it is and I suspect the case, There is a raft of new breed chefs on the horizon. 

Not for the first time recently , I felt a bit of a dinosaur.

Channa


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## bellars (Nov 14, 2016)

channa said:


> I notice with interest the "spikes" between male and  female incidence.
> 
> If we were to take Australia and Japan for example, would the differences be partly the effect of menopause,( my point chemical changes in the body) and perhaps Japanese women opposed to their male counterparts have retained a more traditional lifestyle ?.( particularly dietary)
> 
> ...



Unfortunately there's no definitive answer to explain the difference in incidence of CRC (and most chronic diseases) between men and women. There is some evidence that oestrogen may offer some protection and there have been studies investigating the health benefits of oestrogen-like chemicals present in some plants like soy beans. It has also been suggested that men tend to adopt a more "risky" lifestyle. You're right about Japan though, women there definitely eat a more traditional diet (high in fish and soy).


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