# whitby gazette motorhome parking



## yorkslass (Aug 7, 2011)

hi all just been reading the whitby gazette online and, guess what, another article complaining about motorhomes parking and staying overnight. It would appear that despite the no parking/ no camping signs there is no legislation in place to support these signs. They plan to look into it in future. I sometimes think that most of the complaints about motorhomes are just sour grapes. whitby gazette lifestyle motoring


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## Deleted member 2636 (Aug 8, 2011)

Is it sour grapes? If you had just paid a lot of money for a house with a sea view and every morning you looked out on a line motorhomes would we, "Wild Campers", feel any different?

If the place we wild camp is not affecting any one ie Aldburgh where the camping took place just out of town and not in front of peoples homes, then I think that you could reasonably say "get on with it". If it is in front of people's homes then I can understand their annoyance.


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## Deleted member 3802 (Aug 8, 2011)

As a regular user of whitby i also agree about where these motorhomes are parking there is no thought what so ever about other people
Can


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## maureenandtom (Aug 8, 2011)

Yes, it's sour grapes.   Buy a house next to an airport and complain about aeroplanes, buy a house next to a pub and complain about noise, buy a house next to a road and complain . . .?

However.   My anger would be for the dishonest council if I'd bought my house believing that there was no parking outside my house.   After all, the council had notices there saying “no parking” and I'm entitled to believe them, aren't I?   I'm going to live in a nice quiet neighbourhood with no overnighting campervans.   What do I pay my council tax for?   

And then, it turns out, the “No Parking” is only a council wish list;  it seems it has no force in law.  The blame is with the dishonest council;   not with campervans parked legally.   Only  signs with legal backing should be displayed?  Ok?  Then we all know where we are.

Because of all these dishonest signs we are all at sixes and sevens wondering which have legal force and which do not.


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## Dezi (Aug 8, 2011)

maureenandtom said:


> Yes, it's sour grapes.   Buy a house next to an airport and complain about aeroplanes, buy a house next to a pub and complain about noise, buy a house next to a road and complain . . .?
> 
> However.   My anger would be for the dishonest council if I'd bought my house believing that there was no parking outside my house.   After all, the council had notices there saying “no parking” and I'm entitled to believe them, aren't I?   I'm going to live in a nice quiet neighbourhood with no overnighting campervans.   What do I pay my council tax for?
> 
> ...


 
That is taking what Baloothebear said completley out of context. I do not complain about vehicles parking in the road. However having a property on the coast I strongly object to 

selfish individuals  parking for days on end spoiling, not just my view, but also holiday makers who have paid good money for a couple of weeks holiday.

Spending a week in a hotel looking out over a line of motorhomes instead of the view in the brochure & I suspect everybody on this forum would turn into the grumpyest git that ever griped a grump.

A typical Yorkshireman in fact & nobody wishes that on anybody.

Dezi


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## maureenandtom (Aug 8, 2011)

Dezi said:


> That is taking what Baloothebear said completley out of context. I do not complain about vehicles parking in the road. However having a property on the coast I strongly object to
> 
> selfish individuals  parking for days on end spoiling, not just my view, but also holiday makers who have paid good money for a couple of weeks holiday.
> 
> ...



Oh, I don't know.   Spent several years stationed in Yorkshire.  Quite liked most Yorks folk.   I was replying to Yorkslass not the Bear and I'm sure I haven't hurt his feelings.   If I didn't make it clear that I understood people's resentment, then I make it clear now.

My ire is directed against the council.   We should be able to believe what we see.   If the brochure Dezi talks about shows no campervans then we have a grievance if the picture is misleading.  But it's not legally parked campervans we should resent – it's the misleading advertisers with their misleading picture.   Campervanners who have paid equally good money should be able to legally park.

In Yorkslass's  opening post, it's misleading council notices.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Aug 9, 2011)

What this really comes down to is that the councils* should provide "Aires" - Problem sorted - Simples


* Please note that I used the word "Councils" that's all of them


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## vindideck (Aug 9, 2011)

baloothebear said:


> What this really comes down to is that the councils* should provide "Aires" - Problem sorted - Simples
> 
> 
> * Please note that I used the word "Councils" that's all of them



Hi Baloothebear,

I agree, it would solve the problem but ;-

The only way the crooked UK will get Aires is with Eu funding and the local councils cronies getting the work. 

They would then charge 'Campsite' prices,

No apology, my eyes are wide open.

I hope this kicks off  !!!!


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## fairytooth (Aug 9, 2011)

baloothebear said:


> What this really comes down to is that the councils* should provide "Aires" - Problem sorted - Simples
> 
> 
> * Please note that I used the word "Councils" that's all of them


 
My thoughts exactly Baloo.  Have just come from Hayling Island, car park near to Ferry Boat Inn at west end of seafront.  Not overlooked, lovely views, not in anyone's way, ideal for MHers BUT sign up saying No Overnight Motorhomes.  WHY ???

Complete xenophobia if you ask me.

If this was France they would have called it an Aire and charged a few bob for overnighting = PROBLEM SOLVED.


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## maureenandtom (Aug 9, 2011)

baloothebear said:


> What this really comes down to is that the councils* should provide "Aires" - Problem sorted - Simples
> 
> 
> * Please note that I used the word "Councils" that's all of them



Yes.   That would solve everybody's  problem.   It's about a week now since I sent my little sales brochure to Scarborough council – you could follow any progress in that thread – and I've been promised a response by the 18th August.

I'm an  optimist and if the response from Scarborough is at all reasonable then I might just add Whitby to the list of councils to try.   I might just try Whitby anyway.  Optimist.

You can search for my efforts in the past, some of them are documented here, though, frankly, tourist officials are initially keen on anything which might be a tourist asset but then the parking controllers seem to have the last word.   And for some reason, parking controllers don't want campervans.  They don't seem amenable to a suggestion that campervans in one place will be easily controlled rather than having them spread about all over the place.   I have an idea I know the reason but nobody seems to want to say it out loud.

Which is a pity because an unacknowledged problem remains a problem.   An identified problem can be resolved.  So, I'll put it bluntly.  I think councils are frightened of providing what we call Aires, ie an area set aside and catering for the needs of campervans because these wonderful parking areas might then become permanent areas of settled travellers who will be difficult to move on.

What's the answer to that problem?   If it is a problem?   I can think of answers.


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## kenjones (Aug 9, 2011)

Whitby and Scarborough car parking is controlled by the same anti motorhome bunch.


Car Parks : Council Services for Scarborough Borough, Whitby and Filey


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## fairytooth (Aug 9, 2011)

Yes I suppose it all comes down to failing to address the gypsy/traveller problem properly in this country.  If, instead of saying No Motorhomes they said Motorhomes Only we might get somewhere.

I understand that there is a genuine 'Aire' in Canterbury.  Is that so?  Can anyone say how well it operates? Somebody told me that once these sites are organised they need planning permission.  I wonder if that's true or just another excuse for not having them.

I have sent a complaint to Scarborough Council concerning their policy of hate towards us.  If anyone wants to add their 3 pence worth the email address is:

*complaints@scarborough.gov.uk *  Go on, give them some stick !


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## iansontour (Aug 9, 2011)

The  P&R car park at Canterbury has a section just for motorhomes, barrier entrance with water, toilet & grey water dump, all for £2.50 24 hours INC free bus travel into town as many times u like!!


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## fairytooth (Aug 9, 2011)

Fantastic, why can't other local authorities follow this fine example?


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## kimbowbill (Aug 10, 2011)

*How refreshing*

This is a comment made  in the WG, how refreshing, lets hope she has sent her comments to the right peeps

As a caravan site owner can I clarify that I think the people with motorhomes should be allowed to park and sleep on the West Cliff and other areas of the town. Whilst travelling on the continent I notice that most of the town have areas set aside for such people with free facilities, such as water, chemical disposal points and picnic benches. This is presumably to encourage people into the area and to spend money. Why can't our councils adopt this positive attitude instead of wanting to persecute people? It all seems to work so well in France, Spain and Italy. Some people want to stay on sites and others want the freedom to choose not to, surely we can accommodate both
Report Unsuitable


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## vindideck (Aug 10, 2011)

iansontour said:


> The  P&R car park at Canterbury has a section just for motorhomes, barrier entrance with water, toilet & grey water dump, all for £2.50 24 hours INC free bus travel into town as many times u like!!


 

A great big pat on the back for Canterbury,  is it possible others will follow ???.


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## yorkslass (Aug 10, 2011)

baloothebear said:


> Is it sour grapes? If you had just paid a lot of money for a house with a sea view and every morning you looked out on a line motorhomes would we, "Wild Campers", feel any different?
> 
> If the place we wild camp is not affecting any one ie Aldburgh where the camping took place just out of town and not in front of peoples homes, then I think that you could reasonably say "get on with it". If it is in front of people's homes then I can understand their annoyance.


 
please dont shoot the messenger! if i lived in any seaside town, then yes ,i would expect plenty of visitors. i also never advocated having a line of motorhomes. in actual fact the people i have heard moaning are the ones who get up mid morning, arrive at lunchtime or later then wonder why they cant park exactly where they want! in answer to your last point , and old arthurs, i have never personally parked in front of anyones home or guest house. get there early enough and there are quite a few places to park without been in anyones way.


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## bigpieeater (Aug 10, 2011)

So....lets all bugger off to France where they cater for our needs and sod the resorts in this country, why would we want to spend our money in places that don't want us?:mad1:


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## maureenandtom (Aug 10, 2011)

I've been reading the letters - saw yours Kimbowbill, excellent - and carried on reading a few more.  Know thy enemy!   Does anybody know what the Whitby Traffic Partnership is?   It seems to a secret society;  certainly secretive.


Mystery membership of the Whitby Traffic Partnership - Letters - Whitby Gazette

Extracted from the above:
_
The Whitby Traffic Partnership, whose membership has always been, and remains secret, and who do not allow members of the public to attend their meetings, and who either do not keep minutes or do not allow them to be seen by anybody but themselves . . ._


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## kimbowbill (Aug 10, 2011)

maureenandtom said:


> I've been reading the letters - saw yours Kimbowbill, excellent - and carried on reading a few more.  Know thy enemy!   Does anybody know what the Whitby Traffic Partnership is?   It seems to a secret society;  certainly secretive.
> 
> 
> Mystery membership of the Whitby Traffic Partnership - Letters - Whitby Gazette
> ...


 
Just goes to prove how bent councillers are, i think its disgusting, i thought groups like this have to be transparent? it really angers me, theres all these cuts been made, services stretched to the limit, and then you get these muppets creating their own group out of public funds, :mad2: :mad2:


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## torwood (Aug 12, 2011)

I have taken the opportunity to post my comment on the Whitby Gazette article through there web site and include it below. 

_I am the owner of a campervan, my wife and I have been to Whitby a number of times and have slept in our vehicle on the street.   However I would support that parking a motorhome in the town centre around the harbour would seem irresponsible as the roads are narrow and unsuitable for them.

We are responsible people as are most motorhome owners.   Our vehicles are well maintained and self contained and legal to use on the road.   We try to park in such a way as to cause a minimum of nuisance to local people.   I would not condone the examples given of cooking on the pavement or are you going to ban people sitting on the peir or elsewhere eating fish and chips?   As for emptying toilet waste into a drain I suspect it was perhaps a basin of water used for washing that was emptied rather than toilet waste!   The majority of Motorhomers I know are enviromentally aware and behave responsibly.

On my last visit to Whitby we arrived in the afternoon, parked on West Cliff and walked into town where we had lunch in a local cafe.   We then explored more and bought a present for our daughter and spare parts for our bicycles, all from local shops.   We then had an evening meal in the town and the following morning we bought food and other supplies before moving on.   In all we spent a considerable amount of money supporting local businesses and shops.

Quite simply if restrictions are brought in then we will go elesewhere where we can park and relax a little and Whitby traders will lose our custom.

As has been commented above we find that many communities in Scotland welcome us for the custom we bring to places we stay, and on the continent towns and communities, particularly in Germany and France, recognise the benefit to local economies in encouraging visits by people, who once welcomed to visit or stay, will help feed the local economy.   

As a motorhomer I would be pleased if local communities considered the benefits of attracting responsible visitors in the way the French do with Aires or the Germans with Stellpaltze.

Provide a small part of a car park or area that is peaceful specifically for motorhomers to stop and spend, perhaps a maximum of 48 hours.   Consider putting in a Flot Bleu or similar machine that for a small charge would dispense up to 100 litres of fresh drinking water and also allow safe disposle of waste water and toilet waste.   The French have a whole network of service points charging about 2 euro for the use.

Motorhome owners are not antisocial and do not generally cause a problem other than parking on a suitable wide street and can be of benefit to your community if welcomed in.

Please remember that you can attract more bees with sugar than vinegar_


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## vindideck (Aug 12, 2011)

Quote (I have taken the opportunity to post my comment on the Whitby Gazette article through there web site and include it below. )

Well done Torwood,

Can only be good for us.  you never know someone might listen. :goodluck:


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## torwood (Aug 12, 2011)

vindideck said:


> Can only be good for us.  you never know someone might listen. :goodluck:



Thanks - Perhaps WildCamping should prepare or gather a set of template responses we can each download and personalise to challenge or counter these issues when they get raised?

In my experience of complaints like these the vocal minority usually triumphs over the silent majority?


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## snowbirds (Aug 12, 2011)

*camping in Italy at moment*

If the local town big wigs took a look at France with there aires and the rest of europe with parking for motorhomes
this brings in money to shops in the area  including these short minded traders,put:scared: them on a short jolly to europe
to find out how it work. You pay a small amount for water waste disposal + a bit of electric. every body wins the local shops the traders who rent a stall on the same area, for a small amount and leave all there rubbish for council and tax payer to pick up 
hope this is not to heavy

snowbirds in Italy on camp site in Milan Payed for 



yorkslass said:


> hi all just been reading the whitby gazette online and, guess what, another article complaining about motorhomes parking and staying overnight. It would appear that despite the no parking/ no camping signs there is no legislation in place to support these signs. They plan to look into it in future. I sometimes think that most of the complaints about motorhomes are just sour grapes. whitby gazette lifestyle motoring


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## fairytooth (Aug 12, 2011)

I am impressed with the eloquency of many of these posts.  I've never actually been to Whitby or Scarborough and I certainly wouldn't go at the present time.  For me France has everything that small minded English resorts don't have - and we love it over there - and spend our money there all the time.

However, I have written a complaint to Scarborough Borough Council (details above somewhere) to support this thread and the well voiced points that you all make.  I hope we get somewhere and if a few local authorities show some initiative a few more might follow.

In the meantime, Vive la France !!!


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## Tbear (Aug 12, 2011)

fairytooth said:


> I am impressed with the eloquency of many of these posts.  I've never actually been to Whitby or Scarborough and I certainly wouldn't go at the present time.  For me France has everything that small minded English resorts don't have - and we love it over there - and spend our money there all the time.
> 
> However, I have written a complaint to Scarborough Borough Council (details above somewhere) to support this thread and the well voiced points that you all make.  I hope we get somewhere and if a few local authorities show some initiative a few more might follow.
> 
> In the meantime, Vive la France !!!


 
Hi Fairytooth,

I am a Yorkshireman born and bred but as much as I hate to admit it, I too went to France this year and loved it. The number of motorhomes across France paying a few Euros a night. How much is that? What is wrong with these short sited council parking plonkers. How many people on here want to give them our money? For what? To park for a few hours somewhere that there is plenty of space! Then we spend on fuel, food, entertainment! What is there problem? The travalling community my local council tells me. Well if we provided a area that they had to pay for then they would either have to pay or go somewhere else!

End of rant!!

Richard


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## Bernard Jones (Aug 12, 2011)

maureenandtom said:


> What do I pay my council tax for?



Well it isn't for the road.  That is paid for (many times over) by vehicle taxes.

Incidentally I understand the majority of parking tickets are unenforceable.  People just pay up because they don't know the law.


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## maureenandtom (Aug 12, 2011)

Tbear said:


> . . .Well if we provided a area that they had to pay for then they would either have to pay or go somewhere else!
> 
> End of rant!!
> 
> Richard



Not a rant Richard. A suggestion with a hint of a solution in it.   Something like this.   Problem:  "We are worried that our short term parking for motorhomes will become a permanent settlement."   Possible Answer, "Access is only by a barrier raised by putting in one day's parking fee.  Control is by displaying a windscreen ticket.  Departure is only allowed by presenting the same ticket within 24 hours."   Non-compliance results in the parking penalties we are alredy used to.

I know that's a rather leaky answer but it might be something to build on if ever we get to the point of discussions with local authority and this problem is spoken out loud.


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## joncris (Aug 13, 2011)

*NO Parking please*

When writng to these councils may I suggest mentioning the power of the web to spread bad news That way they'll know that your not just a lone voice expressing your concerns:mad1: Remind them that those concerns, PLUS their responses to you will appear on the web almost before the ink is dry


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## Bernard Jones (Aug 13, 2011)

*Nimbys*

The problem we face is that councillors are elected, and paid, by local people.  So they don't seem to care about us because we pay our council tax. and have our vote, in a different area that does not affect them.


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## ellieloy (Aug 14, 2011)

maureenandtom said:


> Yes, it's sour grapes.   Buy a house next to an airport and complain about aeroplanes, buy a house next to a pub and complain about noise, buy a house next to a road and complain . . .?
> 
> However.   My anger would be for the dishonest council if I'd bought my house believing that there was no parking outside my house.   After all, the council had notices there saying “no parking” and I'm entitled to believe them, aren't I?   I'm going to live in a nice quiet neighbourhood with no overnighting campervans.   What do I pay my council tax for?
> 
> ...


 
Mmmm _ As somone who lives near a pub I can empathise. We have lived here for 25 years and didn't have a problem until a new landlord came three years ago and got his licencing times changed. Now we have irresponsible drinking and serving, until 2 in the morning on some weekends and its not good to be repeatedly woken up by shouting. In the same way years ago we had a caravan in oxfordshire and the council built a travellers site just a few fields down - all was well while the older romanies were there but then other people came who broke into the vans, stole form the locals and dumped piles of harcore in the lane, etc. It caused a lot of bad feeling (even amongst the different groups of travellers) and spoiled it for everyone.
I think that everone has responsility - we can all have a piece of the cake if we act appropriately and share senstively with others. Councils have a duty to get the balance right, as do householders, and campers too. I have recommended a spot on here which is beautiful and very close to a holiday cottage we have. Noone minds the odd camper or two staying for the odd nights stop over - it is lovely to wake up next to the sea - but realistically there is not room for more than a couple of vans, and if people started trashing the place instead of using the bins or being really loud in a sleepy village, I think thats different.


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## fairytooth (Aug 17, 2011)

*Councillor Andrew Backhouse*

Oh, and following up on a recent rumour that somebody on the council had a bit of a vested interest in Motorhomes overnighting ......

Cllr Backhouse discloses on his Register of Interests that he is Manager of M & EF Backhouse Caravan Park and that he has a 'Beneficial Interest' in the following property

The Haven Caravan Park, Burniston - Owned by parents 
15A High Street, Burniston - Owned by parents
24 Main Street, Irton - Owned by parents
8,8A,10,10A Gladstone Road, Scarborough - Owned by parents
1 - 8 Norwood Mews, Scarborough - Owned by parents
Land 0S 3108, Scarborough - Owned by parents

See Scarborough Borough Council: Register of interests for Councillor Andrew G Backhouse for more details.

Oh, did I forget to say, he has the portfolio for traffic and parking matters in Scarborough.  Something other than the docks smells fishy if you ask me..................


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## kenjones (Aug 17, 2011)

fairytooth said:


> Oh, and following up on a recent rumour that somebody on the council had a bit of a vested interest in Motorhomes overnighting ......
> 
> Cllr Backhouse discloses on his Register of Interests that he is Manager of M & EF Backhouse Caravan Park and that he has a 'Beneficial Interest' in the following property
> 
> ...



It was mentioned on here a couple of years ago that Cllr Backhouse may be promoting his own family caravan site business by wanting to restrict the use of motorhomes in Scarborough.
 What's the point of a Register of Interests if these dubious practices continus unchecked?


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## al n sal (Aug 17, 2011)

is there no where these questions can be queried, at the minute it looks to be the same as asking all Councillors to police their own expenses. of course they would do it properly wouldn't they.......

al


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## maingate (Aug 17, 2011)

al n sal said:


> is there no where these questions can be queried, at the minute it looks to be the same as asking all Councillors to police their own expenses. of course they would do it properly wouldn't they.......
> 
> al



There might be a Local Government Ombudsman.


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## refurbisher (Aug 17, 2011)

Fairytooth with this information you are spoiling us, a counter story for the Yorkshire Post could put egg on their chin, stories must be hard to come by with half of the country on hols??? And we all love a half scandal he he he he he!!!!!!


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## Vivo (Aug 21, 2011)

This tread interests me because it opens so very many cans of worms..... the one which made me smile the most was 'council contractor cronies'.
All the whistles and bells which these guys have to have cost the general taxpayer an extra fortune....
more than enough to fund Aires for Motorhomers and campsites for all British Travelers, traditional, New Age or otherwise


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## kimbowbill (Aug 21, 2011)

refurbisher said:


> Fairytooth with this information you are spoiling us, a counter story for the Yorkshire Post could put egg on their chin, stories must be hard to come by with half of the country on hols??? And we all love a half scandal he he he he he!!!!!!


 
I think you will find this is old news but may find this thread of some interest

http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/yorkshire/6339-scarborough-closing-maybe-3.html

jen


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## ellieloy (Aug 21, 2011)

First port of call is to raise it with the CEO of the borough council .... possibly under a freedom of information request .....wait for response which has to be in a given time frame, complain as necessary, then if they don't do something take it on to the ombudsman (who won't deal with it unless you have made approaches to the council for information and ultimately registered a formal complaint


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## Pollik (Aug 21, 2011)

> Only signs with legal backing should be displayed



A letter to the local newspaper- council frittering away tax payers' money?

As regards Cllr Backhouse's interests, an FOI request might turn up some interesting results.  If it could be established that he did not declare his conflict of interest and if it could be shown that he tried to influence proceeding, his reputation could be trashed.  Indeed, I think that a case could be made restricting him from public comment as councillor without declaring his conflict of interest to the reader.  Wholly unethical, but sadly apparently not terribly uncommon.

Polly


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## Sandie (Aug 21, 2011)

*Whitby - is the 'no overnight sleeping' fine enforceable?*

I have just returned from Whitby and wish I had read this thread before going!
We spent two days at a paid site at Robin Hood's Bay and then moved to Whitby in the morning. There were several motorhomes parked in the long stay car park just along from the Co-op.  Most were clearly overnighting - screens up, etc.. There was a sign in the car park stating 'No overnight sleeping or cooking - fine £100'. We asked two motorhomers what they felt the risk was. One said he stayed there regularly and never had any problem, another said they were not taking the risk of a fine and were moving on later. We paid £6 for a 24-hour parking ticket and spent the day in town, planning to decide later on whether to stay. We would have liked to have stayed in town overnight, but also didn't want to risk a fine so I elected not to drink on our evening out and we moved on to Blue Bank for the night. 
Having read the various contributions here, am I to assume that the 'no overnight sleeping' fine is not enforceable? Certainly several people seemed to be completely ignoring it. We noticed the similar signs near the on-street parking areas, but these did not mention a fine. None of the signs were at the pay machines, which I would have though they should be, along with any other conditions of use.

Can anyone advise what the legal position is, please?

Sandie


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## kimbowbill (Aug 21, 2011)

Sandie said:


> I have just returned from Whitby and wish I had read this thread before going!
> We spent two days at a paid site at Robin Hood's Bay and then moved to Whitby in the morning. There were several motorhomes parked in the long stay car park just along from the Co-op.  Most were clearly overnighting - screens up, etc.. There was a sign in the car park stating 'No overnight sleeping or cooking - fine £100'. We asked two motorhomers what they felt the risk was. One said he stayed there regularly and never had any problem, another said they were not taking the risk of a fine and were moving on later. We paid £6 for a 24-hour parking ticket and spent the day in town, planning to decide later on whether to stay. We would have liked to have stayed in town overnight, but also didn't want to risk a fine so I elected not to drink on our evening out and we moved on to Blue Bank for the night.
> Having read the various contributions here, am I to assume that the 'no overnight sleeping' fine is not enforceable? Certainly several people seemed to be completely ignoring it. We noticed the similar signs near the on-street parking areas, but these did not mention a fine. None of the signs were at the pay machines, which I would have though they should be, along with any other conditions of use.
> 
> ...


 
As the article in the WG suggests, there is no legal position, its not enforcable, so basically its there to deter people but obviously its not

Jen


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## Pollik (Aug 22, 2011)

> As the article in the WG suggests, there is no legal position, its not enforcable, so basically its there to deter people but obviously its not



...so basically, the local authority is knowing propagating false information, aka lying.  Who would like to sponsor a court action to hold our servants to account?

I don't know about anyone else, but that is not what I pay my taxes for.  I was going to add something about the ethical issues, but then remembered that the media and government  politicians get away with untruths all the time.

And yet we continue to teach our children that lying is wrong, when our leaders show that it is perfectly acceptable.

Funny old world.




Cynical Polly (who has forgotten to take her medicine, this morning)


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## Sandie (Aug 22, 2011)

*Car park / on street - do the same rules apply?*



kimbowbill said:


> As the article in the WG suggests, there is no legal position, its not enforcable, so basically its there to deter people but obviously its not
> 
> Jen



Thanks Jen,
I have read the article, but it seems to refer to the on-street parking, not the car parks. I was wondering whether different rules apply, especially as in the car park a specific sum of money is quoted as a fine, which is not the case with the on-street signs.
Either way, I shall be checking back here carefully before I go again!

Sandie


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## maureenandtom (Aug 22, 2011)

Pollik said:


> ...*so basically, the local authority is knowing propagating false information, aka lying.*  Who would like to sponsor a court action to hold our servants to account?
> 
> I don't know about anyone else, but that is not what I pay my taxes for.  I was going to add something about the ethical issues, but then remembered that the media and government  politicians get away with untruths all the time.
> 
> ...



Yes.   

We should be able to look at a local authority notice and know it is truthful but because we know some are lies, all are suspect.

Polly, don't start taking that medicine yet a while.


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## jurasik (Sep 6, 2011)

Sandie said:


> I have just returned from Whitby and wish I had read this thread before going!
> We spent two days at a paid site at Robin Hood's Bay and then moved to Whitby in the morning. There were several motorhomes parked in the long stay car park just along from the Co-op.  Most were clearly overnighting - screens up, etc.. There was a sign in the car park stating 'No overnight sleeping or cooking - fine £100'. We asked two motorhomers what they felt the risk was. One said he stayed there regularly and never had any problem, another said they were not taking the risk of a fine and were moving on later. *We paid £6 for a 24-hour parking ticket *and spent the day in town, planning to decide later on whether to stay. We would have liked to have stayed in town overnight, but also didn't want to risk a fine so I elected not to drink on our evening out and we moved on to Blue Bank for the night.
> Having read the various contributions here, am I to assume that the 'no overnight sleeping' fine is not enforceable? Certainly several people seemed to be completely ignoring it. We noticed the similar signs near the on-street parking areas, but these did not mention a fine. None of the signs were at the pay machines, which I would have though they should be, along with any other conditions of use.
> 
> ...



I'm wondering why they would offer a 24 hour parking ticket & not allow overnight camping? I'd like to see the council defend that one in court!


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## kimbowbill (Sep 6, 2011)

jurasik said:


> I'm wondering why they would offer a 24 hour parking ticket & not allow overnight camping? I'd like to see the council defend that one in court!


 
this is true, but, they also state no sleeping or cooking, who know's you are asleep or, if anyone knocks on your door after 12, dont answer it, and if you get a ticket you could say that you were in a tent on the cliffs, they have to proove you were in the van

Jen


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## Neckender (Sep 6, 2011)

Stayed there only last week no problems.

John.


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## Deleted member 3802 (Sep 6, 2011)

if you go on line there are 2 more letters in this week slagging motorhomers, one is from a static van owner from the area and the other seems like a tourer caravan owner
http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/letters


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## yorkslass (Sep 6, 2011)

Old_Arthur said:


> if you go on line there are 2 more letters in this week slagging motorhomers, one is from a static van owner from the area and the other seems like a tourer caravan owner
> Letters - Whitby Gazette


 
why is nobody happy to live and let live, provided your not been a nuisance in any way, as i said earlier i think a lot is sour grapes. some people need to get a life.


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## John H (Sep 7, 2011)

yorkslass said:


> why is nobody happy to live and let live, provided your not been a nuisance in any way, as i said earlier i think a lot is sour grapes. some people need to get a life.


 
My wife also thinks that the world would be a better place if we were all nice to each other. The irony is that she made a (very good) living out of people being nasty to each other! But, seriously, I agree with you - although it would require major surgery to that thing called human nature.


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## RobKeeble (Sep 7, 2011)

In the past after various newsworthy unpleasantries, I've often thought if only people behaved like me the world would be a happier place.  But then if there were lots of me around, I dare say they wouldn't all get along anyway - remember Rimmerworld on Red Dwarf?:lol-049:


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## groyne (Sep 9, 2011)

Scarborough Borough Council have a lot to answer for in Whitby, it soon won't be worth visiting ( so motorhome parking won't be an issue).

Whitby Town Is Falling Down - Real Whitby | Whitby News | Real Whitby | Whitby News

After letting the East Pier fall into disrepair, they've now announced the closure of the West Pier due to it's poor condition. Funny how they found out about it's state "just" after the main holiday season.


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## kimbowbill (Sep 9, 2011)

groyne said:


> Scarborough Borough Council have a lot to answer for in Whitby, it soon won't be worth visiting ( so motorhome parking won't be an issue).
> 
> Whitby Town Is Falling Down - Real Whitby | Whitby News | Real Whitby | Whitby News
> 
> After letting the East Pier fall into disrepair, they've now announced the closure of the West Pier due to it's poor condition. Funny how they found out about it's state "just" after the main holiday season.


 
Thank you for sharing this information, all the more reason for SBC to encourage MH, its a disgrace that they've let this happen, the locals must be up in arms, but sadly this is happening everywhere, makes youwonder where all the money we contribute is going, well got a good idea hey ho 

Jen xx


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## Squibby (Sep 9, 2011)

I think it is all a conspiracy between the local campsites and the local councils, its happening all over the place, the local council erects these illeage sings with no law to back them up, just to scare people into camping at the local campsites.

The council wins twice as they have less rubish to clear from these areas and benifit from the taxes the local campsites has to pay the council and the campsites get more business, a win win situation for all involved apart from us.

We get illeagaly moved from parking areas we leagaly are entitled to stop at over night.

I say we should boycot the areas that missuse there powers, then see how they like it, when they can't make a proffit at the end of the fiscal year.

Squibby.


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## Firefox (Sep 9, 2011)

How are they going to prove someone is sleeping in the vehicle? That evidence is impossible to collect. Just have the curtains closed and don't answer the door. You could be up reading, or on your laptop, or not even in the vehicle, they can't prove anything.

So long as you have paid your £6 24 hour ticket, I'm going to stick my neck out and say the no overnight sleeping part is impossible to prove and therefore unenforceable on those grounds alone, regardless of any other legal niceties


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## wolfie69 (Sep 9, 2011)

Hi All

Good Thread enjoying so far.

two points

1) The Canterbury Park & Rides doesn't allow overnight parking, which makes it a bit questionable to it's worth:

http://www.canterbury.gov.uk/authority/assets/parking/parkandride leaflet 2010.pdf

2) The Counci / Land Owner  has to have a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) in place to issue a fixed penalty - It's a complicated legal area - but you can ring the Highways dept lof any Council and ask them if there is a TRO in place for a particular space / Area and what it is.

Most supermarkets will have signs up saying max 3hrs parking and may even try to fine some some people but without the TRO there is no legal basis.

Also the argument about a view - I have been told several times, you cannot buy the right to a view, you have to buy the land.


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## kenjones (Sep 9, 2011)

Firefox said:


> How are they going to prove someone is sleeping in the vehicle? That evidence is impossible to collect. Just have the curtains closed and don't answer the door. You could be up reading, or on your laptop, or not even in the vehicle, they can't prove anything.
> 
> So long as you have paid your £6 24 hour ticket, I'm going to stick my neck out and say the no overnight sleeping part is impossible to prove and therefore unenforceable on those grounds alone, regardless of any other legal niceties


 
If someone knocks and you answer the door how can you be asleep?


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## kimbowbill (Sep 9, 2011)

kenjones said:


> If someone knocks and you answer the door how can you be asleep?


 
you dont answer the door, doh :cool1:


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## Firefox (Sep 10, 2011)

kenjones said:


> If someone knocks and you answer the door how can you be asleep?



If you do answer it, obviously you aren't asleep, but they may collect evidence eg You are in your night clothes or the beds are made up in the van. They could also take a photograph. This is not beyond the bounds of possibility as they take photos of cars illegally parked to use as evidence, should it come to a dispute in court.


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## Firefox (Sep 10, 2011)

wolfie69 said:


> Hi All
> 
> 
> Most supermarkets will have signs up saying max 3hrs parking and may even try to fine some some people but without the TRO there is no legal basis.



Supermarkets are different. Their argument is based on civil law that they let you onto their land on the basis of an implied contract that you can park for a certain length of time. If you overstay then you have broken the contract and they can legally claim for damages, no TRO needed. The money is limited to their costs and damages incurred plus court costs. But they have to prove that you were aware of the parking notices and were aware there was a contract. This may be difficult to do on a one off case, but if you were a regular abuser of their parking, or had been warned you are likely to be on thin ice in court.


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## AndyC (Sep 10, 2011)

wolfie69 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Good Thread enjoying so far.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting one, I had a discussion with the parking manager a few years ago about the fact that they allow, even encourage, motorhomes to stay overnight at the New Dover Road P&R (and the coach park, incidentally) yet their TRO precludes overnight stays.

He told me that the TRO was kept in place "in case of any problems" but is not generally enforced. He also said that he would dearly like to expand the motorhome parking area, because of the demand at peak periods, but did not have the funds to do it.

AndyC


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## kenjones (Sep 10, 2011)

Firefox said:


> If you do answer it, obviously you aren't asleep, but they may collect evidence eg You are in your night clothes or the beds are made up in the van. They could also take a photograph. This is not beyond the bounds of possibility as they take photos of cars illegally parked to use as evidence, should it come to a dispute in court.


 
Point taken. It's a sad country that has honest people looking over thier shoulders like criminals.


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## Firefox (Sep 12, 2011)

I'd be interested to know what the situation was if someone knocks on your door at night.

If you are legally parked and not causing an obstruction, I'd think it was down to your own discretion if you answer or not. After all, would someone answer a knock at 2.00 am on their house door. Many people would ignore it.


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## ellieloy (Sep 12, 2011)

*rights regs and ridicule*

Having watched this space with interest, I suspect they would be on very dodgy grounds taking photographs of you or the inside of your vehicle - I think this may deny basic human rights - we have to give consent now for any photographs to be used that are taken of us in many walks of life - some people actually believe that to have a photograph taken of them without consent ammounts to personal assault (and in some cultures it is very much taboo and akin to stealing one's soul!)

That aside if you own a car as well a sa MH .... are you really going to be wanting to go visit these places?

Are they stopping people picnicing too - what difeerence does it make if you are cooking your food or eating it cold - the potential for rubbish remains the same. Does 'cooking' include making a cup of tea? - many people I know use in-car kettles to make their tea fresh when picnicing?

I know signs apply to all 'technically' but are they really going to fine a person asleep in their car? - I see plenty of people doing that on a daily basis (go down to our local town on pension day.. and lots of old guys snooze away while their wifies go away to get the shopping), and in fact the police ads on TV used to advise you to pull off the road and sleep if tired. You aren't going to do that in an unsafe area ... so maybe you go into town. 

Just a few things to think about, but there are too many contradictions.


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## Firefox (Sep 12, 2011)

Since the car park is a public place they are entitled to take photos. And they are allowed to take photos of objects in a public place including people or vehicles. I guess sticking the camera inside the door may contravene privacy, but they could take a picture through an open door as part of a car park scene.

I got a parking fine for ten minute overstay on my ticket in a market square car park a few years back. (Typical North Herts District Council Officiousness!). They also sent me a picture of my car. Anyway, the picture showed my car in a parking space with a time and date stamp. It included the number plate and also a reasonable shot of some of the car interior.

They may have been acting illegally, but I believe taking photos of parked vehicles is a common place activity, and I'm pretty sure they would have checked the legality with their legal people. Especially NHDC who are super good about being efficient, officious, and legal in their busybody activities.


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## Yogihughes (Sep 12, 2011)

*RE:- Photographing cars*

Just watched somebody's car being towed away.
Illegally parked.
The tow truck driver took several photos of the car.
I suppose it is to protect himself in case the car owner states that his car was damaged by the lifting and towing.


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## groyne (Sep 13, 2011)

As I posted earlier, it soon won't be worth visiting Whitby.

The Poor Piers Of Whitby By Maggie Hall - Real Whitby | Whitby News | Real Whitby | Whitby News

Read Nigel Wards comments after the article.


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