# unemployed or unemployable?



## runnach (Jul 18, 2012)

I have recently and against my better judgement, helped to run a pub for an old acquaintance.

After 17 days ...8.00 am to 1 am decided help wouldn't be a bad idea
I engaged the services of a young lady 19 who came recommended.

Payplan is very open ended in it is based upon result rather than a flat wage.

Early days hard graft little reward but in my world that's how it works.

Anyway first day agreed start of 11 am no sign...at 2 pm some excuse of sleeping over.

I really try to see the best in people.sadly I muttered the words don't bother

A lot of the idiots see the pub as a grown ups youth club, but what happened to a decent work ethic

The irony is this week to date, she would have earnt .185 pounds with 3 days to go and top up.

If this is reflective of the unemployed we are doomed
Channa


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## Deleted member 21686 (Jul 18, 2012)

channa said:


> I have recently and against my better judgement, helped to run a pub for an old acquaintance.
> 
> After 17 days ...8.00 am to 1 am decided help wouldn't be a bad idea
> I engaged the services of a young lady 19 who came recommended.
> ...



Yes channa it's very worrying for the future.


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## herbenny (Jul 19, 2012)

That is worrying Channa..........

I have a 16 year old son here who's work ethic is nothing like I have ever seen before.  He is waiting to go into 6th form but in the meantime he wants a part time job to fit around his studies.  He sent out 23 C.Vs last week and 18 the week before and nothing (he's had previous experience)  !!!!!  We have walked the streets  and banged on doors asking in shops and nothing!!!! the poor boy wants to work so much to earn his own money.....and be a bit more independant.  So it angers me that there are some that just dont know how lucky they are, but cant drag themselves out of bed.

Offer it to someone else Channa someone who can be bothered get up in the mornings.


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## oldish hippy (Jul 19, 2012)

only saying i feel if it i had been myself would have probaly been there at least half hour early mind you was brought up with a different work ethic wellyou want to leave school ok fine you can leave school as long as you have a job to go to most of us i would imange had sat jobs mind you the work was about  ok it is not now do feel sorry for those job hunting but at least turn up and show willing


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## ellisboy (Jul 19, 2012)

At lot of these youngsters want the money , but don't want to work for it.


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## runnach (Jul 19, 2012)

herbenny said:


> That is worrying Channa..........
> 
> I have a 16 year old son here who's work ethic is nothing like I have ever seen before.  He is waiting to go into 6th form but in the meantime he wants a part time job to fit around his studies.  He sent out 23 C.Vs last week and 18 the week before and nothing (he's had previous experience)  !!!!!  We have walked the streets  and banged on doors asking in shops and nothing!!!! the poor boy wants to work so much to earn his own money.....and be a bit more independant.  So it angers me that there are some that just dont know how lucky they are, but cant drag themselves out of bed.
> 
> Offer it to someone else Channa someone who can be bothered get up in the mornings.



Good luck to the lad....remember, the more that say no the closer you are to one thaq says yes
Channa


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## maingate (Jul 19, 2012)

herbenny said:


> That is worrying Channa..........
> 
> I have a 16 year old son here who's work ethic is nothing like I have ever seen before.  He is waiting to go into 6th form but in the meantime he wants a part time job to fit around his studies.  He sent out 23 C.Vs last week and 18 the week before and nothing (he's had previous experience)  !!!!!  We have walked the streets  and banged on doors asking in shops and nothing!!!! the poor boy wants to work so much to earn his own money.....and be a bit more independant.  So it angers me that there are some that just dont know how lucky they are, but cant drag themselves out of bed.
> 
> Offer it to someone else Channa someone who can be bothered get up in the mornings.



Don't worry, he will get something. In the meantime, he is learning that life is not easy, not fair and determination will get him through. Three very valuable lessons at his age. Your support will also teach him the value of family.


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## Bigpeetee (Jul 19, 2012)

herbenny said:


> That is worrying Channa..........
> 
> I have a 16 year old son here who's work ethic is nothing like I have ever seen before.  He is waiting to go into 6th form but in the meantime he wants a part time job to fit around his studies.  He sent out 23 C.Vs last week and 18 the week before and nothing (he's had previous experience)  !!!!!  We have walked the streets  and banged on doors asking in shops and nothing!!!! the poor boy wants to work so much to earn his own money.....and be a bit more independant.  So it angers me that there are some that just dont know how lucky they are, but cant drag themselves out of bed.
> 
> Offer it to someone else Channa someone who can be bothered get up in the mornings.



Wish him the best of luck, I know it's difficult and unfortunately, many are tarred with the same brush.

My girls did exactly the same, working in McDonalds etc to earn a living.

My eldest did a degree course at the local college so stayed at home and worked to keep herself in credit.

She did however take all the student loans she could and banked as much as she could of them.

When she finished her degree and got a job, she had the deposit for a small house.

Sadly I too have tried to employ people, even if it's for a few days cash in hand, they don't bother turning up or if they get there, don't want to work for their money and last a few hours.

Again best of luck to him, I know it's difficult.

PS the last person I employed actually E.mailed his CV to me with a covering letter saying that he didn't want to be unemployed and that he would do anything, literally anything. He worked hard and earned quite a lot of money, some of his mates actually laughed at him, but he saved up and bought his own car, absolute pride, as his mother was a single parent who couldn't afford to "Give him a car", like so many parents do. Not only that, he also gave his Mum some housekeeping, a very unusual occurrence these days!!

He's now at Uni, doing well, also working in Mac Donalds and Aldi and saving as much as he can of his student loan..........

He'll go far.


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## Somelier (Jul 19, 2012)

There are two sides to every coin.

I tried to get a job after being made redundant last November, but the truth is here in the High Peak, that there aren't any jobs to get. I feel sorry for a lot of the young people round here, because they simply don't have the opportunity to work.


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## Deleted member 21686 (Jul 19, 2012)

Yes they are not all lazy.
My 4 children are really hard workers something they got into their system while growing up.
They rarely ever go sick and work overtime if needed.
My one son who is self employed is a real grafter and when work is short companies seek him out to work for them.


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## Northerner (Jul 19, 2012)

The Telegraph has a feature today on some very funny howlers found in exams. My favourites are the one about Stalin creating a buffet zone to protect the Soviet Union from the filthy capitalists and the student who said: "Spain was a very Catholic country, since Christianity had been taken there in the third century BC".

Britain's education system eh! You couldn't make it up!


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## fairytooth (Jul 19, 2012)

There are some very encouraging stories here, thank God!  But the general outlook seems to remain pretty bleak I think.  I know we are in a recession and all that but our grandparents have been through much greater hardship - and survived by working damned hard for little in return.

I think a hell of a lot of blame should be apportioned to all the 'Get rich quick for doing almost nothing' type programmes and adverts on TV. For example these stupid quizzes that come up during the X-Factor and so on. The National Lottery isn't a bad concept in itself but raises expectations that one day, by doing nothing, 'I will be very rich'.  Not exactly an incentive for youngsters to go out and work.

I'll get off me soap box and have a lie down now ...................:sleep-040:


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## Northerner (Jul 19, 2012)

fairytooth said:


> There are some very encouraging stories here, thank God!  But the general outlook seems to remain pretty bleak I think.  I know we are in a recession and all that but our grandparents have been through much greater hardship - and survived by working damned hard for little in return.
> 
> I think a hell of a lot of blame should be apportioned to all the 'Get rich quick for doing almost nothing' type programmes and adverts on TV. For example these stupid quizzes that come up during the X-Factor and so on. The National Lottery isn't a bad concept in itself but raises expectations that one day, by doing nothing, 'I will be very rich'.  Not exactly an incentive for youngsters to go out and work.
> 
> I'll get off me soap box and have a lie down now ...................:sleep-040:



Regrettably, you are right. I remember a survey where people were asked what provisions they were making for their old age, such as saving, pensions etc. A large number of respondents said that they were relying on the National Lottery! So instead of saving in ISAs or any other method they're spending a few quid every week on a fourteen-million to one chance of winning the big prize!


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## Robmac (Jul 19, 2012)

herbenny said:


> That is worrying Channa..........
> 
> I have a 16 year old son here who's work ethic is nothing like I have ever seen before.  He is waiting to go into 6th form but in the meantime he wants a part time job to fit around his studies.  He sent out 23 C.Vs last week and 18 the week before and nothing (he's had previous experience)  !!!!!  We have walked the streets  and banged on doors asking in shops and nothing!!!! the poor boy wants to work so much to earn his own money.....and be a bit more independant.  So it angers me that there are some that just dont know how lucky they are, but cant drag themselves out of bed.
> 
> Offer it to someone else Channa someone who can be bothered get up in the mornings.



Don't worry Jac, He'll have people working for him one day!


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## vindiboy (Jul 19, 2012)

Northerner said:


> Regrettably, you are right. I remember a survey where people were asked what provisions they were making for their old age, such as saving, pensions etc. A large number of respondents said that they were relying on the National Lottery! So instead of saving in ISAs or any other method they're spending a few quid every week on a fourteen-million to one chance of winning the big prize!


  Bit of an over simplification there I think, whilst it is true some make no provision for their old age, there are those who simply can't as they are having a hard time making ends meet and putting food in their Childrens mouths  from day to day, these same people have to go to places like Wonga .com and pay a million per cent interest on loans or other  loan shark places,there but for the grace of God  [ if I believed in God that is ] go I.


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## Northerner (Jul 19, 2012)

vindiboy said:


> Bit of an over simplification there I think, whilst it is true some make no provision for their old age, there are those who simply can't as they are having a hard time making ends meet and putting food in their Childrens mouths  from day to day, these same people have to go to places like Wonga .com and pay a million per cent interest on loans or other  loan shark places,there but for the grace of God  [ if I believed in God that is ] go I.



How can it be an over simplification? I'm talking about people who, when interviewed for a survey, said that they spend on the lottery, and that is their provision for old age, because they're convinced that they're going to win. I didn't say it, they did! I'm just reporting what I read.

Perhaps if they saved the money in ISAs and, in many cases, cut out the fags as well, their old age would we healthier and wealthier? But it's classic Darwinism of course.

Edited to say: I'm not in the habit of making unsubstantiated claims, which we seem to see a lot of on here! This is the link:

http://www.napf.co.uk/PressCentre/P..._gamble_on_lottery_to_pay_for_retirement.aspx


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## ellisboy (Jul 19, 2012)

Don't believe everything you read in the paper! :yeahthat:


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## Northerner (Jul 19, 2012)

ellisboy said:


> Don't believe everything you read in the paper! :yeahthat:



Yes, but intelligent people realise what they can believe and what they can't. So a research project by YouGov we'll believe, and the reason we believe it, in case you haven't worked it out, is that it's not done by politicians but by civil servants and if the final report was a bunch of lies, how long do you think it would be before someone in the department would blow the gaffe as we say!

That's why people who think the moon landing never happened are total unthinking idiots! It's because, if it was one huge fake, there is no way that a secret like that can be kept by every one of the thousands of people who would have been involved. Let's face it, what would that story be worth to some technician, dying of cancer, who wants to provide for his family? And it's the same with my report from YouGov, what would be the point of inventing it and how long would it be before someone told the truth if it was fake?

So I do believe most things that I read in serious newspapers. If they're wrong we soon find out and if they're deliberate lies then they end in court anyway and we learn the truth.

Nevertheless, if you enjoy being paranoid and assuming the very worst about everything and everyone, as you've already proved just recently, please carry on, it's a free country. Bugger, I've just realised, you probably don't believe that? Check your rooms this evening for the listening devices! They're out to get you you know!


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## ellisboy (Jul 19, 2012)

:sleep-040:


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## Northerner (Jul 19, 2012)

ellisboy said:


> :sleep-040:



What a familiar pattern! You come on here spouting some utter tripe. I totally demolish your argument, which is always incredibly easy. You don't know what so say so you post a little smiley!

Ah, the boring predictability of it all! I've not had so much fun since the playground when I was about seven!

Do think that you can choose another boring little emoticon now with taxing yourself too much? Go on, you can do it you know! And if it's a good one I'll give you a 'Like' just so you can go to bed happy!


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## John H (Jul 19, 2012)

Northerner said:


> So I do believe most things that I read in serious newspapers. If they're wrong we soon find out and if they're deliberate lies then they end in court anyway and we learn the truth.



I've just looked it up - this is a classic definition of the word "naive"


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## jamesmarshall (Jul 20, 2012)

Northerner said:


> How can it be an over simplification? I'm talking about people who, when interviewed for a survey, said that they spend on the lottery, and that is their provision for old age, because they're convinced that they're going to win. I didn't say it, they did! I'm just reporting what I read.
> 
> Perhaps if they saved the money in ISAs and, in many cases, cut out the fags as well, their old age would we healthier and wealthier? But it's classic Darwinism of course.
> 
> ...



What I find amazing is that some people will believe they have a real chance of winning the lottery jackpot despite the odds being fourteen million to one yet the same odds against a DNA match not being yours would have you found guilty by a jury.


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## vindiboy (Jul 20, 2012)

Northerner said:


> How can it be an over simplification? I'm talking about people who, when interviewed for a survey, said that they spend on the lottery, and that is their provision for old age, because they're convinced that they're going to win. I didn't say it, they did! I'm just reporting what I read.
> 
> Perhaps if they saved the money in ISAs and, in many cases, cut out the fags as well, their old age would we healthier and wealthier? But it's classic Darwinism of course.
> 
> ...


I am just commenting on what I read , your post, it is an over simplification to say that people when interviewed for the survey you quote state that they are making no provision for their old age, of course if people are financially able they should provide for old age in whatever way they think fit, but there are  thousands of people who simply can't as they have just enough to see them through their  daily needs and none left over  for holidays or pension funds, if you cannot see that you are very blinkered,foolish to rely on  any form of gambling as a nest egg of course but the people I am talking about see no other way, easy to  interview people for a Newspaper survey in the West End or somewhere to get the answers you want for a  survey, ask any questions you want and you will get the answers you need to sell your papers, one of the reasons I don't read  Newspapers, if  posting the  link to the survey you quote was  intended for my perusal ,it was wasted time as I have no interest in reading it, but thank you for your trouble and time anyway, a  flutter on the Lottery is a good thing  now and again, one  has to be in it to win it as they say.


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## John H (Jul 20, 2012)

I was nodding in total agreement with your post until I got to this bit. Obviously, we could debate the Education system endlessly and I don't reaaly want to get into that but I think the following points need to be made:
1. The Grammar School system was good for those who got into it (myself included) but it wasn't so good for the majority - who didn't. Resources were heavily skewed in favour of the Grammar Schools and those who failed the 11 plus were branded as failures in life by many.
2. One of my sons works with his hands but also greatly enjoys geography, history and literature - he would have been denied access to these studies under the system you propose. Conversely, I was denied access to subjects that might have improved my complete inability to solve practical and technical problems with the motorhome! I am not suggesting forcing people to study these things but I believe very much in giving everybody the same opportunities to access them.


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## Northerner (Jul 20, 2012)

vindiboy said:


> I am just commenting on what I read , your post, it is an over simplification to say that people when interviewed for the survey you quote state that they are making no provision for their old age, of course if people are financially able they should provide for old age in whatever way they think fit, but there are  thousands of people who simply can't as they have just enough to see them through their  daily needs and none left over  for holidays or pension funds, if you cannot see that you are very blinkered,foolish to rely on  any form of gambling as a nest egg of course but the people I am talking about see no other way, easy to  interview people for a Newspaper survey in the West End or somewhere to get the answers you want for a  survey, ask any questions you want and you will get the answers you need to sell your papers, one of the reasons I don't read  Newspapers, if  posting the  link to the survey you quote was  intended for my perusal ,it was wasted time as I have no interest in reading it, but thank you for your trouble and time anyway, a  flutter on the Lottery is a good thing  now and again, one  has to be in it to win it as they say.



Perhaps if you would read the links you'd be able, once more, to save yourself the embarrassment of appearing foolish. Still, there's nothing like a closed mind.

I'll try to make it even more simple for you as you seem determined not to read links and see the evidence. I haven't made any comments about those people who are unable to save for a pension. I have commented on those who are stupid enough to spend money on the National Lottery instead of saving it for their old age. It is the people themselves who have imparted this information to the pollsters. No one has put words in their mouths.

I quoted a survey by YouGov, which doesn't stop people in the West End so as to get the answers it wants. It's an independent organisation that will provide opinion polls based on a large number of contributors, all over the country and from different social groups.

It is nothing to do with newspapers or selling them. This report was commissioned by the National Association of Pension providers, eager to learn how Joe Public was planning for its old age.

So all I have done is reported the facts. I'm not as you seem to continually infer, denying the fact that there are many people who cannot afford to save for a pension. What I am saying is that those who can afford to spend money on the lottery, would be better off saving that money towards retirement.

If I could offer some friendly advice. You really ought to try reading a newspaper. Whichever one it is, on the left the Guardian or the Independent, or to the right The Times or Telegraph, they are full of facts. They can't afford to print lies and if they do they end up being sued for millions. Reading a good newspaper will make you far better informed than you are and perhaps stop you from this constant attack on any facts that I present and which you clearly cannot understand. 

Finally, I do wish that you would stop this silliness. If I were to comment that the Earth is round, you'd be the one who'd pop up accusing me of over-simplification or gross exaggeration. Give it a rest please.


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## maingate (Jul 20, 2012)

John H said:


> I was nodding in total agreement with your post until I got to this bit. Obviously, we could debate the Education system endlessly and I don't reaaly want to get into that but I think the following points need to be made:
> 1. The Grammar School system was good for those who got into it (myself included) but it wasn't so good for the majority - who didn't. Resources were heavily skewed in favour of the Grammar Schools and those who failed the 11 plus were branded as failures in life by many.
> 2. One of my sons works with his hands but also greatly enjoys geography, history and literature - he would have been denied access to these studies under the system you propose. Conversely, I was denied access to subjects that might have improved my complete inability to solve practical and technical problems with the motorhome! I am not suggesting forcing people to study these things but I believe very much in giving everybody the same opportunities to access them.



I am all for the 'second chance system' as it was put.

I failed the 11 plus but went to a secondary Modern that had an experimental class for kids who it was thought could do well. Those days we were referred to as 'late developers'. The kids came from different areas (not just the catchment area). There were 22 of us in the class who were there for 5 years as opposed to the normal 4 as school leaving age was 15.

One or two fell by the wayside and the 18 who stayed the course have done quite well. Some went to University, some to Teachers Training College and many into Industry. Without this experiment, we would not have the qualifications and opportunities that changed our lives.


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## John H (Jul 20, 2012)

maingate said:


> I am all for the 'second chance system' as it was put.
> 
> I failed the 11 plus but went to a secondary Modern that had an experimental class for kids who it was thought could do well. Those days we were referred to as 'late developers'. The kids came from different areas (not just the catchment area). There were 22 of us in the class who were there for 5 years as opposed to the normal 4 as school leaving age was 15.
> 
> One or two fell by the wayside and the 18 who stayed the course have done quite well. Some went to University, some to Teachers Training College and many into Industry. Without this experiment, we would not have the qualifications and opportunities that changed our lives.



I am glad that you had a positive experience but I can't help feeling that this experimental class, by definition, did not open up those opportunities to all who could have benefitted from them - and if there had been no division in the first place, then there would not have been a need for a second chance.


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## Bigpeetee (Jul 20, 2012)

I went to a relatively new Comprehensive in Liverpool, It was about 5 yrs old when I started.

There were 12 classes in each year, each with about 32 per class, of the 12 classes they were set into 4 groups of 3. The Top 6 were the "Grammar School" section and the lower 6 the secondary mod.

In the first 3 years, everyone had the same sylabus, but were put into sets within the group. IE. I was good at engineering and the three sciences so was in the top set, French I was in the bottom. This was so you were taught with pupils of similar educational abilities.

Although I passed the 11 plus, I was placed in the 5th class, subsequently, being a late starter, I went up two classes in subsequent years.

The benefits were tremendous as I could experience a wide range of subjects, yet never felt the underdog as I was always in a similar group of students.

The three sciences, engineering and woodwork as well as Maths English etc all made me what I am today (cranky, bitter & twisted!!) BUT in those days there were superb facilities, those doing engineering could use powerfull dangerous machines, get metal white hot and beat it with a hammer to make all sorts of useful items for the home!! But what a foundation!! Always remember a teacher bellowing "It's no metalwork, but Ungeneering" in his broad Scottish accent, but by god, after 5 years we could use the facilities.

Sadly, in subsequent years behind me, there came the advent of mixed ability classes, where in theory the brighter kids would encourage the less bright, what rot, all it did was bring the class down to the lowest common denominator. I know, I had two brothers following me through school and saw the result.

To compensate for this, and I know personally from exam markers and setters, the standards were lowered over successive years, to prove how well the new system is working!!

Sadly we now find ourselves with loads of young people with numerous qualifications, that just don't reflect their true ability. Not their fault, but the systems.

Change of subject, but this morning I drove past a wagon that had two Bin Wagon compactors to fit onto a base vehicle. Made in Germany. How do the Germans manage to produce top grade products that must be competitively priced, when this country whinge and say it's not cost effective??

I'm sure the Germans don't have a poor economy or standard of living to achieve this, but then in the times I've worked there, their work ethic does seem different to ours. I've not seen every where in Germany, but I've worked with quite a few.

What do they do that we don't??


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## vwalan (Jul 20, 2012)

easy answer most german factories are heavily into china .the germans very often are only piecing together parts made in china .its been happening for a long while things like merc .bmw ,even the new mini is made in china . motor bikes etc all made in china . been going on for years . 
germany will soon be very enviromentaly friendly wont have any heavy industry .but unfortunately the german workers are not aware of it or as daft as our workers . think it wont happen to them.


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## Northerner (Jul 20, 2012)

Bigpeetee said:


> Change of subject, but this morning I drove past a wagon that had two Bin Wagon compactors to fit onto a base vehicle. Made in Germany. How do the Germans manage to produce top grade products that must be competitively priced, when this country whinge and say it's not cost effective??
> 
> I'm sure the Germans don't have a poor economy or standard of living to achieve this, but then in the times I've worked there, their work ethic does seem different to ours. I've not seen every where in Germany, but I've worked with quite a few. What do they do that we don't??



This is a total myth propagated by people who've seen a few old-fashioned industries close and have no idea of what's really going on in British manufacturing. Go on any European building sites and see who makes the massive machines used there, JCB from the UK! A company that exports millions of pounds worth of heavy earth moving equipment all over the world.

Last year Britain manufactured 1.3 million cars, most of which were exported and it made over 3 million engines which again, were mainly exported. Why did Toyota, Honda and Nissan open plants in Britain? Why is Jaguar enjoying a massive sales boom with the XF topping every reliability survey?

Britain's aerospace industry is the second or third biggest in the world, depending on how it's measured. Our pharmaceutical industry is another world leader with massive companies and our scientific companies, such as ARM and others in the Cambridgeshire silicon valley are earning squillions for the UK in exports.

From Wikipedia:  _Commercial shipbuilders include Harland and Wolff, Cammell Laird, Abels, Barclay Curle and Appledore. Companies such as Princess, Sealine, Fairline Boats and Sunseeker are major builders of private motor yachts.
Another important component of engineering and allied industries is electronics, audio and optical equipment, with the UK having a broad base of domestic firms, alongside a number of foreign firms manufacturing a wide range of TV, radio and communications products, scientific and optical instruments, electrical machinery and office machinery and computers.

Chemicals and chemical-based products are another important contributor to the UK's manufacturing base. Within this sector, the pharmaceutical industry is particularly successful, with the world's second and third largest pharmaceutical firms (GlaxoSmithKline and AstraZeneca respectively) being based in the UK and having major research and development and manufacturing facilities there._

Yes, Britain has lost a lot of its old-fashioned metal-bashing industries such as steel manufacturing but that's a trend in many other western countries, but we have other things that you probably never read about. Our financial and insurances sector is the largest in the world after New York and contributes about 11% of our GDP.

Britain is still the seventh largest economy in the world and the eleventh major exporter in the world.

So please, we're not living in some third-world country that's on its knees. We still have world-beating companies and world-beating products. Yes, we're more of a service economy than we were but that's inevitable as countries grow richer, so please, let's all stop this myth that Germany is the only country that makes anything. It's simply not true!


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## vwalan (Jul 20, 2012)

most german companies have big ties with china . most german industries dont make the parts but only assemble them ie. merc ,bmw .just to name two .even the new mini is being made in china . bmw have been making m,bikes and most of their engines for years in china . germany soon will be a very enviromental country it will have no dirty industry all being made else where. 
china is peaking at the moment .but north africa will be soon market leaders in manufacturing . 
most chinese industries are partly owned by eu companies or their groups . 
but dont worry germans are squealling here about it all the time from friends living there. its not all blue skies .
just realised my last post worked thought it hadnt .sorry repeated it a bit .


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## Northerner (Jul 20, 2012)

vwalan said:


> easy answer most german factories are heavily into china .the germans very often are only piecing together parts made in china .its been happening for a long while things like merc .bmw ,even the new mini is made in china . motor bikes etc all made in china . been going on for years .
> germany will soon be very enviromentaly friendly wont have any heavy industry .but unfortunately the german workers are not aware of it or as daft as our workers . think it wont happen to them.



To say that Audis, BMWs and Volkswagens are mainly made using parts from China is just silly! BMW has opened manufacturing plants in China because the Chinese have become one of its biggest customers, and I know nothing about the MINI being made in China but even if it is they will still be made in the UK at Oxford.

German cars are mainly made in Germany and yes, like others they'll source various components and raw materials from all over the world, but there is no evidence whatsoever of any downturn in German car manufacturing because of oversees production. It's because of its success in China in selling German-made cars that it is now opening plants there, which currently make just two models, both of which are designed for the Chinese market.

Mercedes Benz has also opened factories in China but none of the cars are exported and are purely for the domestic market. 

And what will happen long term? Just like in Japan, Chinese wages will rise and its costs will rise and eventually we'll probably get Chinese manufacturers opening plants in Europe, just as Nissan, Honda and Toyota have done in Britain, where we make a reliable and competitively-priced product. So I wouldn't be forecasting the death of German manufacturing for a long, long time and probably never!


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## vwalan (Jul 20, 2012)

well as i ran a business importing vw and udi parts from all over the world for years i think i might know what i,m talking about . have visited many factories allover the world . unfortunately many have for years thought german cars were made in germany . in fact they have been making them world wide for years . you can dream on . they bring the parts over and build the cars in germany . then they they can say made in germany . tell every one that chinese vehicles arent exported . as i said been happening for years . more vehicles by vw used o come in from brazil and mexico than cars actually built in germany in the late 60,s and 70,s . takes some believing i know but its true . most were built in belgium that came to the uk.


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## Northerner (Jul 20, 2012)

vwalan said:


> well as i ran a business importing vw and udi parts from all over the world for years i think i might know what i,m talking about . have visited many factories allover the world . unfortunately many have for years thought german cars were made in germany . in fact they have been making them world wide for years . you can dream on . they bring the parts over and build the cars in germany . then they they can say made in germany . tell every one that chinese vehicles arent exported . as i said been happening for years . more vehicles by vw used o come in from brazil and mexico than cars actually built in germany in the late 60,s and 70,s . takes some believing i know but its true . most were built in belgium that came to the uk.



Yes, we know that the Germans have been making cars in plants all over the world but that's not the point. I was talking about the German manufacturing base and Germany still makes nearly six million cars a year *in Germany*. And yes, we know that lots of parts are imported but the main import is the raw materials. The engines, gearboxes and bodies a res till made in Germany and of premium brand cars 70% is of German manufacture.

Germany is the third biggest car manufacturer in the world after China and Japan. It makes more than twice as many cars as the USA! Brazil, which you quote makes a lot of cars but it's less than half of the output from Germany.

Your point about German workers all being about to lose their jobs is baloney! Germany has an incredibly strong manufacturing sector and, as countries such as China become even more expensive, as we have seen time and time again, their products will be less competitive. This is why the Japanese are now making cars in Britain!


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## Northerner (Jul 20, 2012)

However, there is no denying that British built Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans are very reliable and are being exported all over the world. Your Nissan X-Trail was not made in the UK and was probably made in Japan. However, you talk about something of which I have personal experience. My wife also has an X-Trail and she has never kept a car so long, so reliable has it been.

It is now seven years old, we've had it from new and all it's needed is a new battery and we fitted a new exhaust last year. It's a petrol model 2.5 litre T-Spec and she loves it so much that despite my offers to buy her a new car she doesn't want to know! 

The British car industry is in better shape than it's been for years. Jaguar is experiencing a huge growth in sales. GM is making the new Astra at Ellesmere Port and whilst all the super modern factories in Sunderland, Oxford, Swindon and Derby may be foreign owned, ask the workers if they care!


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## vwalan (Jul 20, 2012)

northerner .you miss the point building cars from imorted parts doesnt make the grade in my book. even 40 50 years ago parts were manufactured all over the world just to let germany make cars . might seem daft but most of the wheel bearings fitted to vw were in fact made in france . . 
cylinder heads and engines have been made in spain and brazil for years .hardly any had german made heads . body panels made the otherside of the world doesnt make germany a manufacturer only an assembler. 
you may not know enough about it .but that doesnt mean it doesnt happen. get off that high horse .open your eyes ears .learn something . 
as a question, why wasnt austin rover sold to nissan ?you would have thought their working together would have been ideal.


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## vwalan (Jul 20, 2012)

i will agree with you about the british car industry at present .i think the uk is at its strongest it as been for a long while .have been saying this for a while as well. uk is very up and coming . i again have been saying it for awhile uk isnt in any crisis its just getting itshouse in order . its not the expensive place it used to be .the rest have prices catching up very quickly to us .in fact i think uk is possibly one of the cheapest places on somethings in the eu. thats why i live here . dont like the weather in winter so normally dont stay here. but take lots of items from here that are expensive abroad .


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## John H (Jul 20, 2012)

I can't disagree with that but the unfairness of the old system was that it branded people at too early an age. Several people on this thread have referred to themselves as late developers - I do not think they were late but perfectly normal and the old system wasn't designed to pick up people at the correct age (whatever that is!). I know that there were sometimes opportunities for a second chance at 13 but this was not universal and left many people in the wrong school for them - and it worked both ways with some people finding themselves in a grammar school when it did not suit their needs. I am inclined to believe (having seen it extensively from the inside) that Bigpeetee hit the nail on the head when he said that the facilities available to comprehensive schools in the early days enabled them to invest in a much wider range of subjects and equipment. These days, schools just do not have the money to do what they could when I first started teaching. And I do agree that the constant political game to get ever-increasing pass rates has led to a falling of standards that satisfies various Secretaries of State but benefits no-one else. As for the argument about mixed ability and streamed classes; I have seen both in operation, both succeed and both fail. As you say, it is the teaching that is important.


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## vwalan (Jul 20, 2012)

Audi A6L Hybrid to be made in China | CarNewsChina.com - China Auto News
just for fun have a look here .there is a list of some of the connections between the industries in eu and china . some may be suprised.
even some of the companies that sound chinese are tied to eu companies if you search hard enough. 
the truck industry is even worse. or better depends how you look at it .


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## maingate (Jul 20, 2012)

VW Passat made in Germany in the 70's. The tooling went to Brazil, built there in the 80's. The tooling went to China, built there in the 90's.

They were still building the old Beetle until recently. They use them as Taxis in Mexico (taking out the front passenger seat), running on LPG.

You know your stuff Alan.


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## vwalan (Jul 20, 2012)

hi maingate heres my first answer from nigeria and a pic of the vwt2 they made .they also did an amazon that was like a jetta . the santana  various t2 vehicles . went out there a few imes great company to meet . 
well got one i think.wont let me do the other but it was a mini bus full of smiling nigerians bet you cant get a bus full of smiling europeans .ha ha .


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## Northerner (Jul 20, 2012)

vwalan said:


> northerner .you miss the point building cars from imorted parts doesnt make the grade in my book. even 40 50 years ago parts were manufactured all over the world just to let germany make cars . might seem daft but most of the wheel bearings fitted to vw were in fact made in france . .
> cylinder heads and engines have been made in spain and brazil for years .hardly any had german made heads . body panels made the otherside of the world doesnt make germany a manufacturer only an assembler.
> you may not know enough about it .but that doesnt mean it doesnt happen. get off that high horse .open your eyes ears .learn something .
> as a question, why wasnt austin rover sold to nissan ?you would have thought their working together would have been ideal.



Building cars from imported parts doesn't make the grade in your book? well, that just about sums up this vast knowledge of the car industry that you claim to have! What's wrong with having a plant in one country that makes engines and another in a different country that makes gearboxes? How does that make the car inferior to if every single part was made in one country? Very odd view in today's multi-national world. Perhaps cost savings may come into it? Making a million engines in one country rather than much smaller numbers in a dozen different ones?

And as for why Nissan didn't want Austin Rover, I'd have thought that was pretty obvious! Why would Nissan want a second-rate brand, long associated with making rubbishy and unreliable cars and working from antiquated production facilities? Nissan had the good sense to start afresh with a new state-of-the-art factory and they were right. Production at Sunderland has soared and the workforce is now over 6000. And who in their right mind would take on ex-Austin Rover employees with their strike record? The ghost of Red Robboe still lingers over the West Midlands! 

And you ask why Nissan didn't take over Austin Rover? What part of the automotive industry were you in?


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## vwalan (Jul 20, 2012)

right the first cars that bmw built were in fact austin seven dixies under licence and built in eisanac by wartburg. it seems nissan would have liked to have bought austin rover but bmw would have first choice due to contracts made in the 20,s .thats why bmw bought it. 
most thought that as nissan built the austin a40 etc in the 40,s and 50,s and kept working with austin rover almost right up to the sell off nissan would have got them .it was a shock to many about bmw .yet most dont realise the connection was years before with bmw,s first car. 
mind alot arent happy that wartburg made bmw,s . i think its funny .they laugh at wartburg,s .
and i never said inferiour just not made in germany .your control of the english language does let you down. not made in germany is different to being built in germany . 
badge engineering as been going on along time . but anyway germans are feeling the pinch . it will get worse for them . its definately on the cards .

strangely enough i was in the independant volkswagen world but bought and imported for many different makes . also exported parts . 
would have thought my user name might have let you know. i lived, ate, slept vw for years . found it amazingly interesting along with the history of motor vehicles .


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## vindiboy (Jul 21, 2012)

Northerner said:


> Perhaps if you would read the links you'd be able, once more, to save yourself the embarrassment of appearing foolish. Still, there's nothing like a closed mind.
> 
> I'll try to make it even more simple for you as you seem determined not to read links and see the evidence. I haven't made any comments about those people who are unable to save for a pension. I have commented on those who are stupid enough to spend money on the National Lottery instead of saving it for their old age. It is the people themselves who have imparted this information to the pollsters. No one has put words in their mouths.
> 
> ...



I have NO problem in appearing foolish it is you who cannot accept that there are people who cannot afford to put funds aside for their retirement, it is a fact of life, I am not at all interested in your Newspaper articles ,if someone want's to spend a couple of pounds a week or whatever on the lottery it is their choice and who knows it may elevate them from the poverty trap they find themselves in.You are moving into the realms of stupidity with your remarks on round or square Earth, we all know it is made of cheese, but who cares anyway. Most Newspapers  are so full of C@@p/ Lies as to beggar belief, so if you want to read it   go ahead I care not, I just believe the evidence of my eyes.


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## runnach (Jul 21, 2012)

Moons made of cheese, words of wisdom  etc.......and the accompanying patronising bollocks...any ance of getting back on thread?



I know , give it uP as a bad job, And do it myself 

What saddens me, is there is a genuine opportunity for someone with a little fire in their belly.


I m really not interested in the sob stories of how hard life is ...simple fit in or foxtrot Oscar..

A lesson in itself.

I will be surplus to requirements too in two weeks time...but  like a rash I will be in folks faces

Ironically I have picked up a gas installation job....with a gas engineer he does gas but not lpg.

I do the log thing so perhaps one more week  before I resort to a bit of fashioned rope for Leons collar and buskingi in a doorway


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## Northerner (Jul 21, 2012)

vindiboy said:


> I have NO problem in appearing foolish it is you who cannot accept that there are people who cannot afford to put funds aside for their retirement, it is a fact of life, I am not at all interested in your Newspaper articles ,if someone want's to spend a couple of pounds a week or whatever on the lottery it is their choice and who knows it may elevate them from the poverty trap they find themselves in.You are moving into the realms of stupidity with your remarks on round or square Earth, we all know it is made of cheese, but who cares anyway. Most Newspapers  are so full of C@@p/ Lies as to beggar belief, so if you want to read it   go ahead I care not, I just believe the evidence of my eyes.



Well, you've had a lot of practice at looking foolish so I suppose you're used to it. And I doubt very much if you've ever read a quality newspaper in your life! And quite frankly, your comments show who is the really stupid one! To suggest that the Guardian or the Times prints lies that beggar belief is the most unintelligent statement I've heard on this forum! Have you ever heard the word libel? And what does the evidence of your eyes tell you about the latest news from all over the world from your semi in Boring-on-Sea?  But let's face it, you're not interested in what's going on anywhere, you never read newspapers so presumably you have the same view about the news on TV as it's just the same, so how come you have all these opinions on everything, when you clearly know nothing?

As for my remark about the earth being round, I think that any one on here with an IQ of more than about 80 will understand the analogy!

And once more, because you really don't understand it - My point was about the stupidity of people who think that the National Lottery will pay for their retirement, no more no less. I just reported on the story that I'd read about an opinion poll. Anyone who thinks that a 14 million to one chance of winning the lottery is the way to look to future is a fool. But do you know what, these idiots probably don't know the odds, despite them being quoted in every newspaper dozens of times, because, like you, they never read newspapers and the Jeremy Kyle show probably stretches their intellect.

But the main thrust of this debate is your antipathy to me and your propensity to leap in to have ago at me and in this case accuse me of something that I haven't even done, simply because you can't even read posts and understand and digest them properly, so I suppose I can see why you don't bother with newspapers!


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## jamesmarshall (Jul 21, 2012)

Northerner said:


> Well, you've had a lot of practice at looking foolish so I suppose you're used to it. And I doubt very much if you've ever read a quality newspaper in your life! And quite frankly, your comments show who is the really stupid one! To suggest that the Guardian or the Times prints lies that beggar belief is the most unintelligent statement I've heard on this forum! Have you ever heard the word libel? And what does the evidence of your eyes tell you about the latest news from all over the world from your semi in Boring-on-Sea?  But let's face it, you're not interested in what's going on anywhere, you never read newspapers so presumably you have the same view about the news on TV as it's just the same, so how come you have all these opinions on everything, when you clearly know nothing?
> 
> As for my remark about the earth being round, I think that any one on here with an IQ of more than about 80 will understand the analogy!
> 
> ...



I recently got my annual summary of my pension plan from Scottish Widows. Last year It earned less than I physically paid in, even with my PAYE tax being recovered. I would have earned more had I simply put the cash in my mattress each month. I am now toying with the idea of buying Premium Bonds each month instead. I consider I have been prudent with my earnings and have attempted to make provision for my retirement in three years but the reality is that at present my pension pot will buy me just enough of an annuity to put me back in the tax paying bracket and keep me treading water just above the poverty line (yes I know poverty is relative). Is this rip off Britain I wonder? Would I advise anyone else to take out a personal pension? Definitely not.

I can understand why people buy lottery tickets. It often provides a little hope (if only for a day or so) against a backdrop of an uncertain future and often difficult financial situations. The odds are ridiculous but I believe that hope will always overcome logic in times of dire need. Good luck to them I say.


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## Admin (Jul 21, 2012)

Please try and follow the forum rules or I will enforce them.


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## vindiboy (Jul 21, 2012)

Northerner said:


> Well, you've had a lot of practice at looking foolish so I suppose you're used to it. And I doubt very much if you've ever read a quality newspaper in your life! And quite frankly, your comments show who is the really stupid one! To suggest that the Guardian or the Times prints lies that beggar belief is the most unintelligent statement I've heard on this forum! Have you ever heard the word libel? And what does the evidence of your eyes tell you about the latest news from all over the world from your semi in Boring-on-Sea?  But let's face it, you're not interested in what's going on anywhere, you never read newspapers so presumably you have the same view about the news on TV as it's just the same, so how come you have all these opinions on everything, when you clearly know nothing?
> 
> As for my remark about the earth being round, I think that any one on here with an IQ of more than about 80 will understand the analogy!
> 
> ...


  Well Mr. must be right all the time, you now lower the tone to personal insults and assumptions that I live in a Semi in Boring on Sea, well Ok if that is  what you want to believe  that's Ok by me, you are getting very uptight again, I suggest you go have a lie down, delete me from your view list and any others that disagree with you and   then you can view all your posts with no  arguments from anyone, which will no doubt boost your ego even further as you will believe you must be right as you will have received no counter argument or opposition to your post.You are right about your choice of Newspapers however, I have not nor ever will read any of them, I will however leave you on my view list as it gives me pleasure to read other posts that  don't follow your pedantic one sided  posts, Have a Nice day.


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## vindiboy (Jul 21, 2012)

jamesmarshall said:


> I recently got my annual summary of my pension plan from Scottish Widows. Last year It earned less than I physically paid in, even with my PAYE tax being recovered. I would have earned more had I simply put the cash in my mattress each month. I am now toying with the idea of buying Premium Bonds each month instead. I consider I have been prudent with my earnings and have attempted to make provision for my retirement in three years but the reality is that at present my pension pot will buy me just enough of an annuity to put me back in the tax paying bracket and keep me treading water just above the poverty line (yes I know poverty is relative). Is this rip off Britain I wonder? Would I advise anyone else to take out a personal pension? Definitely not.
> 
> I can understand why people buy lottery tickets. It often provides a little hope (if only for a day or so) against a backdrop of an uncertain future and often difficult financial situations. The odds are ridiculous but I believe that hope will always overcome logic in times of dire need. Good luck to them I say.



 I concur with your plan to buy Premium bonds, I had £3000 in a Mini Cash ISA  a couple of years ago and the Interest paid was  very poor, I decided to by a block of Premium bonds instead with the money and to date have received prizes of £700 , my wife does very well with her Bonds too.There is the added hope that one of the Bonds may hit the Jackpot too.


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## Northerner (Jul 21, 2012)

vindiboy said:


> Well Mr. must be right all the time, you now lower the tone to personal insults and assumptions that I live in a Semi in Boring on Sea, well Ok if that is  what you want to believe  that's Ok by me, you are getting very uptight again, I suggest you go have a lie down, delete me from your view list and any others that disagree with you and   then you can view all your posts with no  arguments from anyone, which will no doubt boost your ego even further as you will believe you must be right as you will have received no counter argument or opposition to your post.You are right about your choice of Newspapers however, I have not nor ever will read any of them, I will however leave you on my view list as it gives me pleasure to read other posts that  don't follow your pedantic one sided  posts, Have a Nice day.



Aw diddums! I'm sorry you're upset but if you'd read my posts properly and not jump in accusing me of saying things that I never said you wouldn't find yourself in this position! By the way, you never read these terrible newspapers, so where do you get your information from? How do you know what's going on in the world or here in the UK? Let me guess, you watch the television news?. Easily digestible chunks that presumably are always accurate, unlike newspapers which are, according to you, just full of lies and cr*p. 

Funnily enough though, the news I read in my paper is just the same news that I get on the TV, except it's in much more depth and aimed at intelligent people who aren't satisfied with the odd précis on the goggle box. So where do you get your information from? You have an opinion on most things so you must be gleaning it from somewhere?


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## ian81 (Jul 21, 2012)

Phil said:


> Please try and follow the forum rules or I will enforce them.



PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Phil JFDI

Ian

ps  JFDI, Just Freakin' Do It (polite form)


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## sean rua (Jul 21, 2012)

I'm pleased to return to an interesting thread! Thanks to all who contributed.

As I've stated on here before, my main income derives mainly from gambling. It's terribly erratic and not recommended for the faint-hearted. In fact, I've had a hammering recently and am quite a long way down. But I'll get it back and more too! 

Actually, I don't play the Lotto, though it is a very cheap way to try make a life-changing sum out of a trivial outlay. Well worth an odd pound or two, if there happens to be a surplus in one's personal budget.

--

Next, we go on to the Motor Industry:

 When we first  came into Great Britain, the war was finishing ,and people looked to a better future after years of austerity. The Motor Industry became the Sacred Cow of most of the industrial world.

This was fine by us, as we did the jobs that the English no longer chose to do. They were relatively high earners in their field, and we were content and doing alright in ours.
 Many folk were happy to get a motor for the first time in their life, and there was plenty of space out in the countryside.
 Then, we began to see how just churning out motor after motor would lead to major traffic density with blockage and delay becoming common place. It didn't take a genius with the superior brainpower of, say, a "Northener", to realise that things couldn't go on the way they were. There was too much traffic on the roads,
 yet,
 all the time, global capitalism - using the cheapest labour ( including slave labour) wherever it could find it,
continued to spew out as many motors as the system could.

Sure, there were times of over supply and whole aerodromes were covered at times with unsold motors that remained as surplus production till the inevitable periodic negatives of the system kicked in to dampen the economy or improve the lot of the buyer.

If we were to believe our illustrious rulers, then we should all get behind the great British "Export Drive". That's what they told us.
Yep, same old, same old.
Even so, there was a lot of animosity and jealousy directed at the "car factory workers" who seemed to be doing alright out of all this manufacture and exporting.

Eventually, other parts of the world, not only caught up, but they overtook, and the British motor industry went, with one or two notable exceptions, into the doldrums.
 Of course, attitudes and circumstances changed. The well-fed fatcats found themselves out on the bones of their arse. It was quite a culture shock and they felt it in the pocket too!.

Now, in the debate/slanging match above,
 I noticed plenty of assumptions and presumptions. Imo, when it came to actual knowledge of the realities involved, I felt VWALAN shaded the verdict over Northener, but here's my question:

According to Northener's script, which appears to be taken almost directly from the PR division of the conservative and unionist party,
the present day British Motor industry  has never been bettered. 

The bits I don't see, or experience, are any obvious signs of prosperity, or, any discernable "feelgood" factor - in the modern British economy.
This is even more conspicuous by its absence in those parts of the country mentioned specifically by Northener in his glowing praise of the "born again", but mostly foreign-owned, British Motor industry. 

I also found it quite humourous and a tad ironic that he cited areas that used to be the home of old-style heavy industry. :lol-053:
It doesn't seem long ago that we had a heated thread on here in which one of the "Troika" slagged off all the coal-miners - causing plenty of upset and name-calling as a result. Pretty sure the thread had to be closed.
 Now we read that these same areas have now produced some fantastic motor industry, albeit under foreign ownership and with foreign methods of management.

Perhaps, then, the problem lay not with the oft-maligned workers, but more with the poor management that was in power inthe old days?
And could it even be the case that this poor management of old comprised largely of ex "grammar school" laddies? :sad:

Surely not?

--

Btw, Channa,
that pub, that gave rise to your opening post: it sure seems to have a fast turnover of staff - including your good self, it seems.:rolleyes2:

The thing about benefit kids, I think, is that they ain't gonna come off benefits just for a few days work, so I think the Man would do better looking to get  some student on vacation ( cash in hand and balls to the government).
Just a few thoughts - none of which are going to help the general malaise that grips the country - but which may explain a few of the present-day  problems.

Good luck with your new job! :goodluck:


sean rua.

"Ignorance is treatable; Arrogance is terminal."


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## jamesmarshall (Jul 21, 2012)

Phil said:


> Please try and follow the forum rules or I will enforce them.



Point taken and apologies to Channa.


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## jamesmarshall (Jul 21, 2012)

Last week my twelve year old grandson who lives nearby called and asked if I had a bucket. I found one and he went round the neighbourhood knocking on and washing cars. i asked him how much he had charged and said that he had asked people to pay him what they felt it was worth. The least he got was £3.00 and the most he got was £5.00 and overall he made close on £30.00 for a days work. God bless him and love him. (he still hasn't paid me for the bucket though).


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## runnach (Jul 21, 2012)

Deffo no apologies to me , I learn and perhaps become more considerate of alternative viewpoints.

I am just disappointed that the keyboard  warriors see an opportunity to hijack what was an innocent observatio.

Channa


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## runnach (Jul 21, 2012)

jamesmarshall said:


> Last week my twelve year old grandson who lives nearby called and asked if I had a bucket. I found one and he went round the neighbourhood knocking on and washing cars. i asked him how much he had charged and said that he had asked people to pay him what they felt it was worth. The least he got was £3.00 and the most he got was £5.00 and overall he made close on £30.00 for a days work. God bless him and love him. (he still hasn't paid me for the bucket though).



Years ago my wifes youngest brother lived with  us same age 12

One night the phone rung, is that Peters window cleaning service? After recovering from shock and amusement, I put the lad on the phone to deal with his lead.

The little monkey had mailshot locals and advertised in the local shops

The following spring he had the bright idea of doing hanging baskets.

How could I ever be annoyed? He showed nouse...the hanging baskets gave a return a pro would have been proud of.. perhaps his sister and I taught him something you don't get at school

I still get immense pleasure from helping develop young people, and in my little way letting them unleash their potential...


Softie at heart I know

Channa


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## jamesmarshall (Jul 21, 2012)

channa said:


> Years ago my wifes youngest brother lived with  us same age 12
> 
> One night the phone rung, is that Peters window cleaning service? After recovering from shock and amusement, I put the lad on the phone to deal with his lead.
> 
> ...



Don't you love it though? My older grandson has a paper round and my younger one has obviously learned that there is money to be earned if you get out and look for it. These values begin at home and its my sincere hope that they will remain through adulthood.


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## Northerner (Jul 21, 2012)

sean rua said:


> According to Northener's script, which appears to be taken almost directly from the PR division of the conservative and unionist party,
> the present day British Motor industry  has never been bettered.
> 
> The bits I don't see, or experience, are any obvious signs of prosperity, or, any discernable "feelgood" factor - in the modern British economy.
> ...



If you don't see any feelgood factor in the economy it must be because you're only reading the Socialist Worker again. Ask the workers at Ellesmere Port, or at Jaguar, or at Nissan in Sunderland, all of which are increasing their labour force. Ask the workers who this year will make about 1.4 million cars and 3 million engines, the majority for export. This evidence is available to anyone with the patience to do a five minute search. 

Yes, parts of the economy are flat but the automotive industry is having an excellent time. That's not some platitude, the type of which comprises most of your posts, but facts, backed up by evidence. And I'm intrigued by your comments that you don't see any discernible signs of prosperity or feelgood factor. So you're aware are you of the experiences of every single part of the UK, every single type of industry? Wow, what a very clever man. You're  wasting your time gambling, get a job as an economist!


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## Canalsman (Jul 21, 2012)

Northerner said:


> If you don't see any feelgood factor in the economy it must be because you're only reading the Socialist Worker again. Ask the workers at Ellesmere Port, or at Jaguar, or at Nissan in Sunderland, all of which are increasing their labour force. Ask the workers who this year will make about 1.4 million cars and 3 million engines, the majority for export. This evidence is available to anyone with the patience to do a five minute search.
> 
> Yes, parts of the economy are flat but the automotive industry is having an excellent time. That's not some platitude, the type of which comprises most of your posts, but facts, backed up by evidence. And I'm intrigued by your comments that you don't see any discernible signs of prosperity or feelgood factor. So you're aware are you of the experiences of every single part of the UK, every single type of industry? Wow, what a very clever man. You're  wasting your time gambling, get a job as an economist!



Condescension exemplified!


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## ian81 (Jul 21, 2012)

...am I thick???? What the dickens does this have to do with Motorhoming?????


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## sean rua (Jul 21, 2012)

Thank you for the kind advice, Northener.

Although I think I'd rather take a job like the original one that Channa was offering, I would certainly consider being your economic adviser for an appropriate fee.

Tomorrow, I may well be in the vicinity of Ellesmere Port, so we could arrange to meet for a pint or a glass in the Knot, perhaps.

As the time for your visit to the German Trade Fair must be coming  due, I hope you can find the time to fit in a visit to the Port or, in fact, anywhere else on the Wirral , if 'twould suit your purposes better.

 We were engaged years ago in some fairly major development work for a Bavarian millionaire who had an industrial complex in the Stanlow area, so
 it would be enlightening for us if you could make it.

Quite, frankly, I take my hat off to you!
It is incredible how a busy businessman and wild-camper, such as your good self, can find the time to churn out  this iimpressive flow of information  for our perusal on this website,
while at the same time
 " selling pegs and flowers in Eastern Europe"

"attending trade fairs near Dusseldorf" 

and, of course, regularly socialising with the upper echelons of society and police administration.

Unfortunately, you did make a slight slip in some of your assumptions in your last post, in which you mentioned a  paper. 
 I had stated earlier on this forum that I do not take ANY  newspaper, but perhaps you had forgotten that, and, in any case, I'm quite surprised that you haven't followed your usual ploy of trying to belittle other posters by suggesting that they may be too "ignorant", "stupid", "poorly-educated" to be able to
*read* and understand the gems that you come up with.

Evidence,  backing up my impression of your attitude, can be found in almost every single thread that you've been on, from the archives of this website. That's all we have to judge you by, I'm afraid.
 No doubt you would prefer some columns from the Telegraph or Mail, but I think we'll have to make do with your own words of wisdom, found  in the archives.

Thanks again for posting, and, may I ask, do you see yourself as some sort of Crusader when you come on fora like this ?



sean rua.

"Ignorance is treatable; Arrogance is terminal."


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## Somelier (Jul 22, 2012)

I went to an absolutely dreadful secondary school, in Littlehampton. The most important subject as far as the headmaster was concerned was English Literature, which didn't suit me at all (I've never been into poetry or Shakespeare). While physics was taught, there was no biology or chemistry, subjects that I would have loved to study. Maths was great, but there was considerable friction between the mats teacher and the English teachers, but the maths teacher was determined that his pupils would excel at maths and we did.

I then went on to a college of further education for more 'O' then 'A' levels, but decided not to go on to university, preferring instead a vocational qualification.

It was not until I was in my early twenties that I really took to studying and won 3 prizes for the results of my qualifying finals.

I was one of those late developers who benefited from a return to studying, but could I do it now? I doubt it, it's become too expensive! Whereas we benefitted from free education, young people now must pay through the nose for it and pick up huge debts, not a situation I would like to be in.


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## Somelier (Jul 22, 2012)

basildog said:


> Yes you do have to laugh as my father was a very outspoken critic of the whole PFI hospital situation !



My wife is a health professional working at a PFI hospital and she has nothing but praise for the way it's run!!!!


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## jamesmarshall (Jul 22, 2012)

Somelier said:


> I went to an absolutely dreadful secondary school, in Littlehampton. The most important subject as far as the headmaster was concerned was English Literature, which didn't suit me at all (I've never been into poetry or Shakespeare). While physics was taught, there was no biology or chemistry, subjects that I would have loved to study. Maths was great, but there was considerable friction between the mats teacher and the English teachers, but the maths teacher was determined that his pupils would excel at maths and we did.
> 
> I then went on to a college of further education for more 'O' then 'A' levels, but decided not to go on to university, preferring instead a vocational qualification.
> 
> ...



Very similar to my experiences in that I had the opportunity to take advantage of further education later in life. Cheaply offered and easily available training courses for people over eighteen or so can only add to the betterment of society today


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## Bigpeetee (Jul 22, 2012)

In our local Newsagents this morning and a gentleman in his late 50's was vigorously complaining that this was the fourth week that the paperboy had delivered the wrong papers and that he was angry that despite his complaints, nothing had been done.

The newsagent apologised, saying that after three weeks of sloppy delivery, the first paperboy had been sacked and this was a new one.

This wasn't good enough said the man. The newsagent calmly replied that if young people cant read lists and deliver to numbers, It was hardly his fault, but would try to rectify the matter.

The gentleman complaining was a head teacher at the local school!! Much to the amusement of the customers waiting.

This follows my experience, that while schools do create some good pupils, the ability the read, write and understand basic arithmetic IS lacking in many young people. Is it these that are unemployable, or certainly difficult to employ??

However, many of these illiterates have more money than I have to spend as they end up in "Dodgy" deals as well as the dole.


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## vwalan (Jul 22, 2012)

all i can say is alot of my work as been customer realated .all through my working like dealing with the public there as been a stream of folk that cant read or right .age as nothing to do with it .old young there as always been those that can and hose that cant. 
give many a form to fill in even the ones that can read dont understand half the questions . 
always amazed how many convieniantly left their specs at home ,can you fill this cheque in please etc etc . so as far as i can see nothing changed on that front.


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## Somelier (Jul 22, 2012)

vwalan said:


> all i can say is alot of my work as been customer realated .all through my working like dealing with the public there as been a stream of folk that cant read or right .age as nothing to do with it .old young there as always been those that can and hose that cant.
> give many a form to fill in even the ones that can read dont understand half the questions .
> always amazed how many convieniantly left their specs at home ,can you fill this cheque in please etc etc . so as far as i can see nothing changed on that front.



Please don't get offended at this, but you really have no room to criticise as your spelling and grammar leave a lot to be desired. In your post, you have used "as" instead of "has", "related" is spelled incorrectly, you've used "like" instead of "life" and used "right" instead of "write", to show just a few.

Perhaps you've left your specs at home, or perhaps you DID go to Specsavers. lol:lol-053:


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## vwalan (Jul 22, 2012)

dont worry me .i can communicate very well english cornish french bit of spanish .bit of german . getting better at arabic . 
dont think i was criticising just stateing things i had seen. i am still amazed how many cant read .even more how some can read but miss interprate the meanings .its actually easier to have a conversation with a foreigner than some uk speakers .
i know i spend more time abroad than i do here and very often look in a dictionary as words dont look right. but it really doesnt matter so long as the other person understands . i have heard 5 languages being used in one sentance .but again so long as every one knows the same words in the sentance what language you use doesnt count.
i also have fat fingers and very often hit two keys at once.  i only type with one finger as i cant type other wise.but never mind we all have faults ,one day i might learn what the keys do. always had someone else type for me . hee hee.


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## maingate (Jul 22, 2012)

vwalan said:


> dont worry me .i can communicate very well english cornish french bit of spanish .bit of german . getting better at arabic .
> dont think i was criticising just stateing things i had seen. i am still amazed how many cant read .even more how some can read but miss interprate the meanings .its actually easier to have a conversation with a foreigner than some uk speakers .
> i know i spend more time abroad than i do here and very often look in a dictionary as words dont look right. but it really doesnt matter so long as the other person understands . i have heard 5 languages being used in one sentance .but again so long as every one knows the same words in the sentance what language you use doesnt count.
> i also have fat fingers and very often hit two keys at once.  i only type with one finger as i cant type other wise.but never mind we all have faults ,one day i might learn what the keys do. always had someone else type for me . hee hee.



Maffy mushqellah Sadiq.


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## vwalan (Jul 22, 2012)

shokran gaezilaen. hael taetaekaellaem ingilizi.annae taetaeaekaellaem arabia shwaeyae.


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## scampa (Jul 22, 2012)

maingate said:


> Maffy mushqellah Sadiq.





vwalan said:


> shokran gaezilaen. hael taetaekaellaem ingilizi.annae taetaeaekaellaem arabia shwaeyae.



هؤلاء الناس يتحدثون عن أشياء سيئة في هذا الموقع. وينبغي حظرها!


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## vwalan (Jul 22, 2012)

yes and sqwiggle sqwiggle to you .ha ha .i really cnt read it . have a few books here given from a morocan friend but think i could spend a life time and not get it. 
i suppose there is away to get it on here somehow . but well done .now how about a bit of berber . i,m never sure if the words i learn are arabic or berber .
bit like living in cornwall and talking to a geordie . ha ha . both use different languages . hee hee.


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## herbenny (Jul 23, 2012)

*Fingers Crossed*



herbenny said:


> That is worrying Channa..........
> 
> I have a 16 year old son here who's work ethic is nothing like I have ever seen before.  He is waiting to go into 6th form but in the meantime he wants a part time job to fit around his studies.  He sent out 23 C.Vs last week and 18 the week before and nothing (he's had previous experience)  !!!!!  We have walked the streets  and banged on doors asking in shops and nothing!!!! the poor boy wants to work so much to earn his own money.....and be a bit more independant.  So it angers me that there are some that just dont know how lucky they are, but cant drag themselves out of bed.
> 
> Offer it to someone else Channa someone who can be bothered get up in the mornings.



My son has an interview today (his first ever) for a little part time job in a coffee shop.  Please send positive vibes to a young man who really does want to work hard and not rely on his parents for money, it goes against everything he stands for (how proud am I ).  He also wants to study hard in 6th form this coming September doing law, psycology and philosophy so this job would be perfect for him to fit around his studies. 

My fingers and toes are well and truly crossed


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## oldish hippy (Jul 23, 2012)

herbenny said:


> Yayyyy.......at last !!!! Just picked my son up from his interview and he has an induction day on the 10th August.  What a little superstar he is :angel:
> 
> Ooops sorry everyone didnt mean to post it on this thread and imposing ...just a proud mum



dont care what others think  just pleased for you why should you not be proud shout it to the world


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## jamesmarshall (Jul 23, 2012)

herbenny said:


> Yayyyy.......at last !!!! Just picked my son up from his interview and he has an induction day on the 10th August.  What a little superstar he is :angel:
> 
> Ooops sorry everyone didnt mean to post it on this thread and imposing ...just a proud mum



Great. The force was obviously with. him. :king:


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