# spiralling out of control



## jimjolli (Nov 14, 2017)

Hey peeps,

Just joined this forum as I'm looking to buy a motorhome.

Originally I wanted to buy an old panel van for a few grand and lovingly convert it into a camper van.
Then I decided I really needed to spend more than a few grand to get something nice and that would last me a while, which then took me up to wanting to spend around £10,000 on a really decent van.
But looking into it I became concerned about this whole emissions thing and whether anything less than the newer Euro 6 engines would be allowed to the roads in the not too far future at all.  Most businesses lease their vans so get a new one every 3 years or so.  I want to keep this for 20 years or so I guess - so need a van and an engine that is as future proof as possible.

So, here is where I am now.....  Fiat are currently selling their new LWB Ducato vans with Euro 6 engines for £15,995 - that's a massive discount from the £28,995 they normally go for!!   

I may get one - am I mad to spend that amount? 

I love building things, so doing the conversion would be a real joy for me.  Recently I built a little shack at the end of my garden (hopefully pic attached if I managed to work out how to) and want to give the same feel with my motorhome conversion.

Jim


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## Makzine (Nov 14, 2017)

Hello and :welcome: Only you can say how much you wish to spend :wave:


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## Lee (Nov 15, 2017)

Welcome.
There are many on here who have built there vans hopefully you can get lots of advice.


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## The laird (Nov 15, 2017)

Hi welcome and enjoy,don’t think you would have a problem doing your own conversion,look forward to step by step pics


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## jagmanx (Nov 15, 2017)

*Better to spend more now*

and get a long-term vehicles (as you say).


We spent £28,000 on a Lunar Motorhome in 2010
Still using it now
2 Major expenses
A) solar Pane £400 amd LPG/Gasit £600
B) getting the roof re-sealed £1500

You probably plan to do A yourself and with a PVC B is not relevant.

Just check out the installation costs etc
" Do it once Do it right "

You may find total costs come to nearly as much as a good 2nd hand coachbuilt...just a thought

If you plan to spend weeks away suggest you get "bigger Rather than smaller"
You will have times when you are "Stuck indoors"
Other posts have dicussed
1) Toilet ...Essential in my view
2) Shower if you can ..avoids or reduces campsite fees and increases freedom
3) Fixed bed simply our opinion preference
4) solar and no of Batteries
5) Gasit or gaslow or other

We have a 3 burner hob but I thing 2 burners are OK

You may find this post helpful if you would like to go NO GAS
https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/show-us-your-van-motorhome/65892-clarence-safari-camperbus.html?highlight=wildebus


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## Robmac (Nov 15, 2017)

Welcome to the site.

Love the shack. Proper job!


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## phillybarbour (Nov 15, 2017)

Hi and welcome along to the site. If funds allow I’d go for any Euro6 van. I don’t think many people realise just how quickly none Euro6 diesel vehicles are going to be banned in many places. Euro6 is not future proof but was a big step forward from Euro5 and Euro7 is a long way off yet.

UK, France and Germany are really pushing banning none Euro6 diesels.

My background is running commercial vehicles and this was a huge issue when purchasing lots of £100k each plus trucks.


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## RichardHelen262 (Nov 15, 2017)

I would be tempted to do a self build in a cheaper but nice van first, use it for a year or two so you then know what works for you, then buy a new van and build another as I doubt anyone can get it right the first time.
And I should imagine you will make profit on the first build when you sell it


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## Dowel (Nov 15, 2017)

jimjolli said:


> Fiat are currently selling their new LWB Ducato vans with Euro 6 engines for £15,995 - that's a massive discount from the £28,995 they normally go for!!   View attachment 59623



I don't think you are mad and that is a very good price, does it include VAT?

However, I do hope you are too pessimistic about the future of diesel power. Having recently bought a used Euro 5 van I am gambling on it being a good few years before they are completely driven off the roads. As we currently depend almost entirely on diesel power for most road transport of goods and for PSV vehicles it will take some time to phase diesel out.

I live in a village and could put up with restricted entry to London and large towns. Oxford, for example, has been easier to access via the Park and Ride scheme for many years now.

Perhaps we should be buying up historic (pre Jan 1977) campers or vans etc we could convert?

Historic (classic) vehicles: MOT and vehicle tax: Historic (classic) vehicles: MOT and vehicle tax: Vehicles exempt from vehicle tax - GOV.UK

I fancy a Bedford CF Dormobile LAND CRUISER with a Transit 2.5 diesel engine and 5 speed gear box transplanted in - Tax and low emissions exempt?


Look forward to seeing how you get on  :goodluck:


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## Dowel (Nov 15, 2017)

Postscript to my post above, just in case someone is now preparing to pursue the above:

Bedford CF “Landcruiser” launched 1967

LEZ Exemption for Historic vehicles built before 1 January 1973

With respect to swapping an engine this was posted on the Honest John website:

_“The Historic Vehicle tax class is one of the few tax classes which is independent of engine size, so changes in engine size/type are not subject to independent verification by DVLA.

If the engine details on a 1973 vehicle are incorrect, it will be clerically simpler for the owner if the amended details are notified to DVLA on the new V5C that indicates the tax class of Historic Vehicle, seeing that no independent verification of engine size/type would then be required.”_

Source for the latter:
Classic car tax exemption: what you need to know |  | Honest John

So it looks as if no body will notice if you fit a later, possibly cleaner, diesel engine - but if anyone wants to make that change it is at your own risk. :scared:


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## Old Git (Nov 15, 2017)

Hello I am sure you will get some good advice on this site :welcome::welcome:


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## didds (Nov 15, 2017)

Whatever govts do wrt emissions and vehicles in the future they won't retroactively apply the rules.  So if you have a vehicle that at sikme time wouldn't pass the rules, you will still be able to use it.

Why?

'Cos if they retrospectively applied such rules the country would be left/awash with old vehicles and nowhere and nothing to do with them. Scrapyards wouldn't be able to cope with them, if they even wanted them to start with given the past form them would be useless in all probability.  Some would be left vehicle-less with no way to replace the vehicle with anything vaguely "new" enough (£££) - the underclass of those unable to afford a vehicle would become huge with attendant transportation issues.

didds


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## 2cv (Nov 15, 2017)

didds said:


> Whatever govts do wrt emissions and vehicles in the future they won't retroactively apply the rules.  So if you have a vehicle that at sikme time wouldn't pass the rules, you will still be able to use it.
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...



The proposals for Scotland mean that Glasgow lez will be euro 6 only from next year, with 41 other areas planned within two years. This will mean that diesels made before 2014 are virtually unusable there.


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## 2cv (Nov 17, 2017)

Just my view, but I think it will be very difficult to dodge over 40 zones when travelling around Scotland.


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## trevskoda (Nov 17, 2017)

Dowel said:


> I don't think you are mad and that is a very good price, does it include VAT?
> 
> However, I do hope you are too pessimistic about the future of diesel power. Having recently bought a used Euro 5 van I am gambling on it being a good few years before they are completely driven off the roads. As we currently depend almost entirely on diesel power for most road transport of goods and for PSV vehicles it will take some time to phase diesel out.
> 
> ...



If you alter them then the exclusion no longer applies,read from classic car mag.


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## trevskoda (Nov 17, 2017)

Hi and welcome,my van cost £1500 to convert,so you should be able to do same,scout around for used or bits others bought and did not use,i got windows for £50 which cost in excess of £500 new each,also rear seats which turn to table or forward to let kids see where we are going,two free from annie here and rear two for 20 bucks at auction bought by a chum knowing what i wanted them for,you will be ok after that nice shed build.


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