# drinking and being in van on private land...



## Big bed camper (Mar 28, 2013)

If this has been asked before please redirect me.

If I stay at a pub and have a few ( two pints normally sees me out these days though!), enough to put me over the limit. Am I out of the laws reach by being in my van with the ignition keys because I am on private land, or can I still be prosecuted for being in charge of the van and over the limit? I would assume I was safe, but would like to be 100% sure.
Ta


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## Firefox (Mar 28, 2013)

Pub car parks are regarded as public places because the public have free access.

However your defence would not based on the type of land you are on, but you have no intention to drive until fit. In this regard, you would shut the curtains, make the beds, lights low, swivel the driving seats, and put the keys in a drawer. 

And you would not answer the door to any knocks. You would be "asleep." What are they going to do? Break in the van or put a police aware sticker on it? The CPS have no chance because there is no evidence you intend to drive and therefore no prosecution would ever take place even if you did answer the door. (Did I mention don't answer the door?... A van is private premises and they don't have a warrant)


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## Firefox (Mar 28, 2013)

( I should also mention, get authority from the landlord to stay overnight in the car park. There is blanket permission for a land owner to do this for or two nights stay for one unit under an exemption to the 1960 Caravan sites and control of permitted development act). You then have a witness and irrefutable evidence you were going to stay the night... case dismissed. By the way, don't answer the door, then you don't need a witness  )


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## Viktor (Mar 28, 2013)

In Northern Ireland if the car park is a public place (i.e. a place to which the public have access whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge), such as a car park beside a public house, then you are in danger.  However if the car park is gated and the gates closed at night then it is a private place.  If police see evidence of drunk in charge on a road or public place, you will likely be convicted.  So if you are observed heading for your MH in an ungated car park other public place or in the MH the worse for wear, you are in trouble.

If it was an Aire in a public car park you would also likely be at risk (such as at Donaghadee), but in an Aire on a golf club car park such as Whitehead probably not.  As Firefox says if you don't make it obvious then you are unlikely to be troubled.  I certainly wouldn't answer the door either.


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## Package (Mar 28, 2013)

There is an defence that the Pub car park is only a public place during pub opening hours.


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## John H (Mar 28, 2013)

Some good advice above - especially from Firefox. I would just add that the private/public land thing is a bit of a red herring. People have been successfully prosecuted on their own private drives. The Prosecution have to show that you had the intention of driving on public land - ie that you were about to start up the vehicle and drive out onto the road; not that you were on public land at the time.

Having said that, the word INTENTION is the key thing and if you take the advice above it is difficult to see any court thinking that you intended to drive (not that I think it would get as far as court).


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## MATS (Mar 28, 2013)

*who has been prosecuted....*

anybody know of anyone being prosecuted....nope just like wild camping on a piece of land or laybye - prosecutions are very rare unless contravening a parking regulation in council run car park.  I have had police come and ask if we were okay in one spot - there is me by table with a bottle of wine saying all is fine but he knew we were staying the night so no intention of driving....


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## John H (Mar 28, 2013)

MATS said:


> anybody know of anyone being prosecuted....



Yes and on private land - as I stated in my post above. But in this, as in all things, attitude plays a very big part. If the police do question you then as long as you politely make the point that you have no intention to drive (backed up by all the things Firefox suggested above) then you should be ok. If, however, you start getting beligerent with the police then there is a good chance they will take it further (on some other point if not the driving one - nobody's vehicle is perfect!). Its human nature and common sense, really.


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## Package (Mar 28, 2013)

*Private Land ...A  Red Herring?*

My understanding of this is as follows..

 To secure a conviction for being drunk in charge, the Crown must prove that you were in charge of a motor vehicle in a public place whilst unfit or over the prescribed limit of alcohol.

As a defence to this charge The defendant must show there was no intention to drive.

If you are on private land there is no offence. Intention to drive or not.


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## ricc (Mar 28, 2013)

two questions jump to mind

presumably they would have to breathalyse the alledged intended driver to prove he was over the limit.....are they allowed to breathalyse when theres no evidence that anyone is actually intending to drive?

what if you claimed the van had a simple mechanical fault so it couldnt be driven anyway....for example... sorry officer i beleive theres a wire off me starter motor ...im not ringing me mechanic till the morning/ cant walk to the garage to get a connector till they open ...what can they then do if youre off the highway and not causing a danger to anyone else? ....just had a brainwave.....get a spare key cut without the immobiliser chip and you can even demonstrate the van wont start till the mechanic looks at it tomorrow


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## Robmac (Mar 28, 2013)

Big bed camper said:


> If this has been asked before please redirect me.
> 
> If I stay at a pub and have a few ( two pints normally sees me out these days though!), enough to put me over the limit. Am I out of the laws reach by being in my van with the ignition keys because I am on private land, or can I still be prosecuted for being in charge of the van and over the limit? I would assume I was safe, but would like to be 100% sure.
> Ta



Hi G and A,

You'll be fine mate we do it all the time including large meets on pub car parks.

How's the van coming on?

Cheers

Rob


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## jakekelly (Mar 28, 2013)

*drunk in charge?*

Folks, Remember monday is 1st. of April, keys out of ignition & in a cupboard , bed made up?, at the table with a drink  T.V  on , yes officer I'm just watching "cops at war" then I'm going to race away at high speed to lose you in a chase down the road.  Wise up!  PC plod has better things to do than sit and wait to see if you are going to drive away! ps if you do drive away then you deserve everything you get from the law! your not in a car ,your in your motorhome/ habital vehicle fit for pourpose eg eating/sleeping .:beer::goodnight::sleep-040:


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## Marcs (Mar 28, 2013)

That's a good idea with the spare key with no chip 


A friend of mine was banned for drink driving for starting the engine of her car on her drive purely to close the electric roof. Her gates were shut In front of the car, just takes a copper with an attitude problem in the wrong place at the wrong time and sadly there is a fair few of them about.


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## shortcircuit (Mar 28, 2013)

Marcs said:


> That's a good idea with the spare key with no chip
> 
> 
> A friend of mine was banned for drink driving for starting the engine of her car on her drive purely to close the electric roof. Her gates were shut In front of the car, just takes a copper with an attitude problem in the wrong place at the wrong time and sadly there is a fair few of them about.



Come on, I would think there is a lot more to the story than you are letting on.  The police just happened to be there when she decided to close the roof of her car when stationary on private property with gates closed, absolutely no chance as I never see police patrolling streets.  Had she just arrived home from???


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## keehotee (Mar 28, 2013)

ricc said:


> two questions jump to mind
> 
> presumably they would have to breathalyse the alledged intended driver to prove he was over the limit.....are they allowed to breathalyse when theres no evidence that anyone is actually intending to drive?



You don't need to drive for a conviction -* if *they were that bloody minded about getting one. The offence is Drunk in Charge - not drunk driving.



> "Generally, a Defendant is "in charge" if he was the owner/in possession of the vehicle or had recently driven it. He is not in charge if it is being driven by another person or is "a great distance" from the vehicle.
> 
> Matters are more complicated where a person is sitting in the vehicle or "otherwise involved with it". In charge can include attempting to gain entry to the vehicle and failing, having keys to the vehicle, having intention to take control of the vehicle or even "being near the vehicle".


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## runnach (Mar 28, 2013)

keehotee said:


> You don't need to drive for a conviction -* if *they were that bloody minded about getting one. The offence is Drunk in Charge - not drunk driving.


I would agree with you, also refusal of a breath test is an offence in itself which carries penalties similar to being opl certainly frowned on by insurance companies and car hire companies etc

Channa


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## Yogihughes (Mar 28, 2013)

Yes Channa, people tend to forget that it is NOT just a 1 year penalty.
The endorsement lasts on your licence for 10 years and makes hiring a vehicle etc very expensive if hiring allowed at all!


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## Marcs (Mar 28, 2013)

shortcircuit said:


> Come on, I would think there is a lot more to the story than you are letting on.  The police just happened to be there when she decided to close the roof of her car when stationary on private property with gates closed, absolutely no chance as I never see police patrolling streets.  Had she just arrived home from???



So because *you* don't see police patrolling the streets it didnt happen? Right :rolleyes2:


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## shortcircuit (Mar 28, 2013)

No, that is not what I said.  What I said is there is a lot more to this story than being said.  For police to suddenly appear at my door there would be a reason hence my question, "Had she driven home from????".  For police to appear by chance is a stretch of the imagination.


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## landyrubbertramp (Mar 28, 2013)

just my few observations, 
.1 im not a big drinker in teh first place , but it woul d worry me if i was on any type of land that i woud be asked to move for whatever reason, 
2. i know the law doesnt see the diffrence but i dont between being in a vehicle and not physicaly turning the key and being at home in bed after all both have accees to teh vehicle by choice physicalaly and physcolgicaly ,
3. the idea about being broken down is  good, you could even take a fuse out so you could give the cps a key and asked them to try and  start the vehcie.


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## frontslide (Mar 28, 2013)

If i parked my van in a pub car park for my brother to sleep in who doesn't drive so doesn't hold a licence what then i wonder?


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## Robmac (Mar 28, 2013)

We often use the road near Stonehenge to park for mini meets and have a drink. The police sometimes come and just check who we are and how long we will be there. They never ask about drinking and driving and that is a public road. It's common sense, if you are there late at night with a can of beer in your hand and a campfire going, you're probably not going to be driving!


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## Andys (Mar 28, 2013)

Hi I always thought and I am sure I read it somewhere that the vehicle must be in a driveable condition. So if the curtains are drawn (you cannot see out) the seats are turned in (you cannot see the road) the vehicle is not in a drivable condition so no law broken.

Hope i am right intend to get rat arsed tonight :lol-053:

Andys


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## Mad Manx (Mar 28, 2013)

I have never had a problem parked up as a wild camper or as a trucker .
But in the bad old days of the eighties when coppers were looking for easy collars, we use to swap keys with the next driver in the lay-by we were overnighting in !
Also if you are obviously parked up with bed made dinner on the table and a nice drink in hand i think they will go away as long as you are nice and non confrontational !


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## frontslide (Mar 28, 2013)

So when i pick my wife up and her friend from the pub later then call at the shop on the way home leaving them sat in the car my wife with her house/car keys on her she could be done for drunk in charge then.


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## Robmac (Mar 28, 2013)

I'd say my missus was driving (she doesn't drink) and then hope that she doesn't shop me in 10 years time


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## mark61 (Mar 28, 2013)

frontslide said:


> So when i pick my wife up and her friend from the pub later then call at the shop on the way home leaving them sat in the car my wife with her house/car keys on her she could be done for drunk in charge then.




"Yes. If the Police believe that you were driving at some point, but when they stopped the vehicle, you were no longer driving, it is still possible to prosecute or if the Police are able to show that there was a likelihood of you driving the vehicle. You do not have to be sitting in the driver's seat to be "in charge"."


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## Package (Mar 28, 2013)

Marcs said:


> That's a good idea with the spare key with no chip
> 
> 
> A friend of mine was banned for drink driving for starting the engine of her car on her drive purely to close the electric roof. Her gates were shut In front of the car, just takes a copper with an attitude problem in the wrong place at the wrong time and sadly there is a fair few of them about.



This scenario would not have resulted in a prosecution for being drunk in charge. The prosecution would have to prove your friend *had been* driving on a road to secure a conviction. Its irrelevant whether the copper has an attitude, its for the CPS lawyers and the courts to decide if an offence is complete or not.


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## Big bed camper (Mar 28, 2013)

Thanks all, interesting answers, it is possible I would very rarely be over the limit these days anyway and even then don't really like to drive after just one pint.
Rob, hiya, doing ok up here, just getting upper cupboards fitted in the van, seats/beds are done, temporary kitchen is in, cupboard for portaloo is in. Finished most of the insulated window blackout panels today ( instead of curtains). Ann and I are getting married on the 6th April and are hoping to go off in "lurch" for a few days, probably Wells Next Sea area.
Hope you and Julie are ok.
cheers
G


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## bru (Mar 28, 2013)

put external blinds on , theres a good chance your not gonna drive with them on , if going back to van after a drink dont get keys out , unlock with keys in pocket and enter through side or back door , shouldent look as if you got any intension to drive and if they dont see you with the keys you dont look in control either , then jump in quick and hide the keys :lol-053:


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## sparrks (Mar 28, 2013)

I think a lot would depend on how drunk you are or appear to be. If staggering up to the door and looking legless then I think the police would arrest you on the spot and in my view rightly so. 
If on the other hand they saw you exit the pub, walk across the car park and unlock the van they would have a right to question as to what your intentions are, and if they can see the van is made up for sleeping then I would have thought that would be the end of the matter unless you get a bit lippy.

Once in the van just keep the doors shut and say you're trying to sleep.


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## Cliffy (Mar 28, 2013)

If in a pub car park leave the ignition key with the pub landlord and enter van though habitation door assuming it is not central locking.
My son is a PC he observed an old lady staggering across the super market car park, open the boot of her car and put her shopping in, at which polnt he stopped her and asked her to take a breathaliser test, she was twice over the limit. At the police station she claimed she was putting the shopping in the boot and was going to walk home and pick the car up later. 

On advice from above they were told they would not be able to proove intent to drive if it came to court. So no action was taken. 
That is not to say another force would have the same policy and would you want to go to court to fight it even if you won case.


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## sparrks (Mar 28, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> He should have waited for her to get in and start the engine. Justice would then have been done.



Maybe, but they then run the risk of a drunk driving a car and causing injury.


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## barryd (Mar 29, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Not at all, step up and arrest her as soon as the key was turned. That's all that would be necessary for a conviction.
> 
> As it is, she kept her licence and in all probability would drive away in the same state within a week or two.



Of course there is always the chance that she might well have being telling the truth!  :lol-053:

Seriously though.  Nobody should worry about this.  Wilding or in a pub car park.  I never give it a second thought.  Ive even talked to the police parked up in a laybye in Scotland on about my fifth Stella.  They just wanted to chat about the van as one of them wanted one.

I think the Police have better things to do than to attempt to prosecute someone for a case that they will almost definitely lose.   They would only raise an eyebrow to you if they thought you were going to drive and why would they think that?

The only downside I can see boozing when wilding is if you suddenly need to move on.  I think if I was parked somewhere where there was likely to be trouble or hassle or it didnt feel right I would move anyway or if I had to stay there I wouldnt drink.  If I was ever asked to move on while under the influence I would simply refuse.  


The morning after is an issue.  Im thinking of getting one of these digital breathlysers.  I was at a long weekend party in the lake district recently and much boozing went on for three days.  One of the guests had one of these things so I used it the day I was leaving.  At 11am I blew 70 on the breathlyser (I think the limit was 35).  So double the next day!  It was 3pm before I eventually blew 27 and was considered safe to drive.  Scary but it was an exceptionally heavy weekend.


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## John H (Mar 31, 2013)

Package said:


> My understanding of this is as follows..
> 
> To secure a conviction for being drunk in charge, the Crown must prove that you were in charge of a motor vehicle in a public place whilst unfit or over the prescribed limit of alcohol.
> 
> ...



As I and others have pointed out, INTENTION is the key thing and if you are in your vehicle on your own private drive the police may decide that you intended to drive onto the public highway. Prosecutions for this are rare but they DO happen. So I am afraid that your last sentence is misleading.


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## Robmac (Mar 31, 2013)

John H said:


> As I and others have pointed out, INTENTION is the key thing and if you are in your vehicle on your own private drive the police may decide that you intended to drive onto the public highway. Prosecutions for this are rare but they DO happen. So I am afraid that your last sentence is misleading.



I disagree with this. The Police can't 'decide' what you're 'intentions' were. That would be supposition.


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## Viktor (Mar 31, 2013)

Robbie 'Intention' is irrelevant.  The offence is 'Driving, or being in charge, when under influence of drink or drugs'.

The mitigating factor is 'likelihood to drive'.  To clarify -  Here is the law in Northern Ireland from the Order itself. 

The Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 


As you will see the definition stands of certain factors - road or other public place, likelihood of driving, ability to drive is impaired, drink or drugs both are included.

Also:

Breath test is not necessary (it is preferred) but the power is still there to arrest on 'reasonable cause to suspect' AND the constable may ENTER BY FORCE any place to make the arrest _including forcing his way into your motorhome._


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## Viktor (Mar 31, 2013)

Indeed as Flip Flap says, it's all down to whether you do it discretely and don't draw attention to yourself.  In other words don't give anyone cause to complain or give a constable reasonable cause to suspect.  Being rowdy, arguing loudly, playing loud music, etc is just asking for trouble. So be careful where you park too, as you don't want the police approaching you to move you on and then discovering you've been drinking excessively.


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## barryd (Mar 31, 2013)

Lets say for argument there were 2, 3 or 4 of you in the van.  All pi$$ed and the van keys in a drawer.  All the people in the van have driving licences.  Bobby law comes along and decides he is going to do you for drunk in charge.  Who is he going to arrest?


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## John H (Mar 31, 2013)

Robmac said:


> I disagree with this. The Police can't 'decide' what you're 'intentions' were. That would be supposition.



Wrong. If the police claim that you intended to drive they can arrest you - and this has been done many times. It is then up to you to prove that you had no such intent.

The police have to make decisions about intent all the time. For example, if you are walking down the road at 3am with a crow-bar, they have to decide whether you had intent to break into a house.


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## John H (Mar 31, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Correct..But the charge would not be burglary, and the charge would not be DD in the original scenario, it would be Drunk in Charge.



I thought we were talking about being drunk in charge. At no time has anyone suggested that the offence would be drunken driving - especially if you were asleep in your motorhome at the time!


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## John H (Mar 31, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> It's all been discussed. DD and DiC.



My comments all relate to the original question. At no stage do I recall anyone talking about being arrested while driving. To bring this back to the point, you can be arrested for intent, whether or not you are on public or private land. It is rare, admitedly, but it can happen and in all cases the best course of action is to be contrite and polite. It is very difficult to prove intent but if you are beligerent with the police they will have other ways of getting you. Simple, really - I'm not sure what the problem is.


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## runnach (Mar 31, 2013)

Im not sure of your point John, Everyone agrees that intention is the key word, one poster made reference to someone arrested having closed a sunroof on her drive, facts are hazy but definetley could be charged with DIC, previous events (which we dont know ) could result in DD if she had been drinking.

Suspicion and Intention have far reaching tentacles in the legal world it seems 

Channa


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## John H (Mar 31, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Had you read all previous posts you would see that what you say has already been said. BY ME..



I refer you to post number 6 on this thread in which I made the point that the private vs public land thing was a bit of a red herring; I said then that intent was the main factor. Some people have questioned that. I have pointed out the law but also said that common sense was a good idea if approached by the police. What is your problem with what I have said?


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## John H (Mar 31, 2013)

channa said:


> Im not sure of your point John, Everyone agrees that intention is the key word, one poster made reference to someone arrested having closed a sunroof on her drive, facts are hazy but definetley could be charged with DIC, previous events (which we dont know ) could result in DD if she had been drinking.
> 
> Suspicion and Intention have far reaching tentacles in the legal world it seems
> 
> Channa



My point, channa, is that some people have NOT agreed that intent is the key thing. It is important that people know what the law actually says.


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## 666jw (Mar 31, 2013)

Well one thing that we all can agree on is , it's very unlikely in any event to happen to a person in a camper even ones that are wilding in public areas. It does however not stop it being the biggest worry to us all, along with having to pull off in a emergency after the said drink or whatever else that may have been consumed by some of us !

Campsites have a lot of disadvantages , but they also make all of the above  a lot easier. I'll still take my chances however !


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## 666jw (Mar 31, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> I think that being in fear of your life and possibly your personal safety is a valid defence for DD. Certainly if you can afford the best lawyers it will be.



Under duress.......... you can break the law ,if somebodies got a gun to your head etc.


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## jakekelly (Mar 31, 2013)

*DD*



666jw said:


> Under duress.......... you can break the law ,if somebodies got a gun to your head etc.



!! ever heard  the saying" going round in ever decreasing circles you will eventually dissapear up your own jacksy" I think it applies to this thread!!:cheers:


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## Geraldine (Mar 31, 2013)

Ok, so any test cases out there where someone has been done in this scenario? ( main topic).Drink driving in charge of a motor home parked on pub/public grounds? In my case I like a pint or two (rusty bucket).Mandie and I both named co drivers of the van.
Mandie non drinker.I return to the van afew too many !
Would Or could I be nicked ?
Answers please.
David


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## Geraldine (Mar 31, 2013)

Scrap the part drink driving. Put in place too much drink ( booze ).


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## Viktor (Apr 1, 2013)

> Ok, so any test cases out there where someone has been done in this scenario? ( main topic).Drink driving in charge of a motor home parked on pub/public grounds? In my case I like a pint or two (rusty bucket).Mandie and I both named co drivers of the van.
> Mandie non drinker.I return to the van afew too many !
> Would Or could I be nicked ?



Under those circumstances -  No, as a non drinker is in charge of the vehicle, and in the lilelihood of the vehicle being driven, she would be the driver.

You would have to judge each instance or scenario on it's own merits.  As I've said the factor is likelihood of driving not intention to drive and as far as I know that is the same under English and Scottish Road Traffic Law.  Perhaps a serving police office on this forum can clarify this for the mainland UK, certainly in Northern Ireland it is 'likelihood of driving'.

So to consider what is likely you only have to think - 'What action would be taken by the average person in a given situation'.  This is how the police officer is going to judge your 'likelihood of driving', so if he considers the context that your campervan or Motorhome is approached by drunken persons or persons intent on causing you a disturbance, and applies the thought above, it is clear the likelihood of the vehicle being driven away from it's present location is high, therefore the offence of drunk in charge is complete.


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## Robmac (Apr 1, 2013)

Anyhoo, I think I will not be put off. I will continue to park on pub car parks, and occaisionally I will get completely shrew faced and go and start my car on the drive just for the hell of it.
That's just me. I like to live on the edge.


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## John H (Apr 1, 2013)

Star Trekker said:


> Ok, so any test cases out there where someone has been done in this scenario? ( main topic).Drink driving in charge of a motor home parked on pub/public grounds? In my case I like a pint or two (rusty bucket).Mandie and I both named co drivers of the van.
> Mandie non drinker.I return to the van afew too many !
> Would Or could I be nicked ?
> Answers please.
> David



The only logical answer to that is that it all depends! Who has the keys? Who is sitting in the driving seat? Any arresting officer has to make a judgement about intention to drive and he will use (I would hope) common sense in determining that. It doesn't matter who the registered keeper is or who is named as driver. It doesn't even matter if you haven't got a driving licence. After all, it is legally possible to lose a licence you haven't got! If you are over the limit, with the keys in your possession and fumbling to fit them into the ignition, then that copper will probably decide you intended to drive; if you are asleep across the back seat and your sober wife has the keys in her purse, then he will probably decide that you didn't. If your wife is still in the pub and you are stumbling across the car park, keys in hand, towards the vehicle then you will have to do a lot of talking (but keep it polite!)


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## sparkydave (Apr 1, 2013)

that last one is probably the one that may help, if you cannot drive the vehicle because you are not in possession of the ignition key.............. can you ask said pub landlord to take your key overnight, as long as you can let yourself in


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## John H (Apr 1, 2013)

sparkydave said:


> that last one is probably the one that may help, if you cannot drive the vehicle because you are not in possession of the ignition key.............. can you ask said pub landlord to take your key overnight, as long as you can let yourself in



I suppose if you want to nit-pick you could say that giving the keys to the landlord is not sufficient because it is possible to start a car without keys. However, in practice, I would doubt that anyone other than a particularly beligerent officer, whose wife had just kicked him out, would not accept the story. :lol-053: And even if he didn't believe you, the court probably would.

In short, it all comes down to one man's word (the arresting officer) against another and who the courts believe. That is why the most important thing is to be polite when questioned - that man has your future in his hands! Anyway, good luck and if you're sensible you should be ok. Give those keys to the landlord and have a good time.


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## Deleted member 3802 (Apr 1, 2013)

666jw said:


> Under duress.......... you can break the law ,if somebodies got a gun to your head etc.



Don't try this defence I did and the magistrates laughted it out of court:scared:?? They said because I bought the gun and the lad was only three


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## Deleted member 967 (Apr 1, 2013)

John H said:


> I suppose if you want to nit-pick you could say that giving the keys to the landlord is not sufficient because it is possible to start a car without keys. However, in practice, I would doubt that anyone other than a particularly beligerent officer, whose wife had just kicked him out, would not accept the story. :lol-053: And even if he didn't believe you, the court probably would.
> 
> In short, it all comes down to one man's word (the arresting officer) against another and who the courts believe. That is why the most important thing is to be polite when questioned - that man has your future in his hands! Anyway, good luck and if you're sensible you should be ok. Give those keys to the landlord and have a good time.



Giving the keys to another person would invalidate my insurance.  You would have to be doing something to attract the attention of the police in the first place, not just parking, to have the police take an interest.

John


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## frontslide (Apr 1, 2013)

jakekelly said:


> !! ever heard  the saying" going round in ever decreasing circles you will eventually dissapear up your own jacksy" I think it applies to this thread!!:cheers:


Thats actually why the "oozlam bird" is extinct it also flew round and round till it disappeared up its own arse! (old Derbyshire).


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## frontslide (Apr 1, 2013)

If drunk in charge is based on intent then my brother who cant/doesn't drive/hold a driving licence (post #22) cannot be done for "drunk in charge" after all


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## ricc (Apr 1, 2013)

weve now got 8 pages ... having read all of it i think its something thats impossible to answere in black and white , it seems to me that what  happens in any one incident is purely down to the sense or lack of of the plod involved and how the" victim" reacts band what they admit to..

ive had a belligerent plod tell me i cant park on a single yellow to load , cos i was causing an obstruction...hed just seen  the gurt yellow school bus go by,  i was polite and didnt get arsy but was told to move or would be arrested. so i drove round the block , while he drove off on then i carried on trying to earn a crust, he was presumably happy hed had his power trip, i was fuming but didnt want to waste time proving he was an arse.   they aint all saints get one with a bee in his bonnet and anything can happen regardless of what the law actually says.

i keep my keys in my trouser pocket, even on a campsite id be in charge of the vehicle 

yesterday evening our house leccy tripped out,  i went out to the car parked on the drive to get the torch out the glove compartment... had plod in a snot been about i could have been done for drunk in charge.

the laws an ass , if its being applied by an idiot.   which seems to be an all to common occurance.



whatever the intent of the persons drafting the laws they cant foresee all the ways theyll be interpreted by people with their own axe to grind.

all you can do if involved with plod on a mission  is keep calm , be polite and admit nothing.


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## ellieloy (Apr 1, 2013)

I confess that we often have a beer or wine when we cook our evening meal - which means we are settled for the night - wherever we are stopped. Frankly that has always been our up the sleeve excuse for not moving on.
We have never been approached or challenged, but then would they really want to take on a vanful of dogs?
Perhaps we should have a Pyjama Party
E. x


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## runnach (Apr 1, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Also, drunk in charge is an irrefutable fact if you are intoxicated and in CHARGE of a vehicle.
> 
> Most unlikely you would be charged in a campervan or truck that is prepared for sleeping in, curtains drawn etc, but you CAN be.However, if you try it in an ordinary car the chances are much higher that you would be charged.



I had ths conversation years ago, with a serving officer who said pretty much the same, He told a tale of a couple of lads sleeping in a pub car park, satisfied they were sleeping off the booze left them alone, Two hours later the car goes whizzing by and you guessed driver OPL. The reason it seemed is that has the temperature dropped they became uncomfortable and decided to risk it.

Therefore a vehicle prepared for habitation will be looked at differently.

As someone else said though be careful following morning.

Channa


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## Robmac (Apr 1, 2013)

As usual we have a lot of experts, the one I chose to listen to on this thread is a recently retired policeman, however he was told he was wrong by somebody who knows best.


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## Viktor (Apr 1, 2013)

Under the human rights legislation Govt employees, Police Officers, Firemen etc are bound to act in a manner which is 'reasonable and proportional' to any situation they are involved in.  That is Human Rights legislation or they risk a complaint under Human Rights.

Most police officers (not all...a new constable recently out of training may still be on a power trip), are sensible mature individuals who like the rest of us will take the path of least resistance when it comes to something like a MH parked up for the night.  Let's put it in proportion.  They have bigger fish to fry, and they are probably already overloaded with paperwork and probably short on manpower too.

If you don't get on your high horse (even if you are right), like ricc says (who was ok to load or unload btw as you are allowed a certain number of minutes to do so as a commercial vehicle), then even if you have been drinking I'd hazard a guess they would 'advise' you and probably not take it any further.  

However the bottom line is usually you have to do something, or have done something, to get yourself noticed.  If you park up discretely, behave reasonably then the majority of the time you will have nothing to worry about.


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## John H (Apr 2, 2013)

frontslide said:


> If drunk in charge is based on intent then my brother who cant/doesn't drive/hold a driving licence (post #22) cannot be done for "drunk in charge" after all



Not being able to drive and not holding a licence is no barrier to arrest for DiC!

Just to clarify, there are only two things that the arresting officer has to determine:
1. Is the person over the limit?
2. Do that person's actions make it probable that he/she intends to operate that vehicle on a public highway?

All matters to do with who is the registered keeper of the vehicle or who is a named driver or who, indeed, holds a licence are not relevant to this particular charge (but will possibly open the way to other charges!).

One of the problems in all this is that there is no precise legal definition of the phrase "in charge". Some might take it to be sitting in the driving seat with or without the keys; others might take it to mean that the key has to be in the ignition etc etc. Because of this, it is ultimately up to the courts to decide on the "reasonable man" basis. But if you are arrested for DiC then it is up to you to make the case that you had no intention to drive until you were once again below the legal limit. If youare asleep (or preparing to go to sleep) in a motorhome then that defence is likely to be a good one. However, there is no 100% answer to the original question, which is why the common sense and polite approach is always best.


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## BrianG (Apr 2, 2013)

I have read this thread over the last few days and have come to the conclusion that we are such a bunch of worry muttons. I for one am not going to worry about such things. There have been so many threads that discuss the "intricacies" of the law, such as can you live in a van, how long, is your back axle overloaded, is your van overloaded, are your tyres legal, is your home installed gas system legal etc, etc. Boy, if I think about all these things I would never sleep.  
Good night folks, Briang


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