# Angles Morts



## Wooie1958 (May 26, 2022)

Just been talking to an English guy ( only 3rd one i've seen in 3 weeks ) who commented on my Angles Morts stickers.
He asked why i had them on because they do not apply to us now that we've come out of the EU and anyway they are only for French vehicles.


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## jagmanx (May 26, 2022)

Good to use them to maybe prevent a serious accident !


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## Tonybvi (May 26, 2022)

I have to confess that although I have a set and should have them displayed on the van they are in a cupboard!  I have seen hardly any French vans with them on (only the tag axles) and my van in base form is 3.5t but it is uprated to 4.2 (so looks like a 3.5t).
I reckon your Brit pal is wrong Graham and if we have vans over 3.5t we should wear the stickers but I have decided to take the risk and not display them.


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## mark61 (May 26, 2022)

Far too late to prevent a serious accident.


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## Wooie1958 (May 26, 2022)

I just want an easy life Tony especially over here and my philosophy of being legal seemes to be working.
2 days back on the way to an aire there was 2 roadside checkpoints ( one on either side ) run by Gendarmes, we got waved in.
He spoke English and was surprised that i had Angles Morts stickers, Crit-Air sticker, beam benders and hi-viz all at hand.
I asked if he needed to see my documents including passports as well ?
He said no and apologised for disturbing our holiday and waved us out.


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## Tonybvi (May 26, 2022)

mark61 said:


> Far too late to prevent a serious accident.


I fully accept that legally my van should wear them but I cannot understand why, when the only difference between my van and the identical van in every respect and every dimension but not uprated so carries a different plate sticker, I have to put on ugly stickers and the other van doesn’t and this will prevent a serious accident. 
In all probability the non-uprated van is probably overweight as well!

However you are correct in that I should obey the law even if I don’t understand the reasoning behind it.


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## Tonybvi (May 26, 2022)

Wooie1958 said:


> I just want an easy life Tony especially over here and my philosophy of being legal seemes to be working.
> 2 days back on the way to an aire there was 2 roadside checkpoints ( one on either side ) run by Gendarmes, we got waved in.
> He spoke English and was surprised that i had Angles Morts stickers, Crit-Air sticker, beam benders and hi-viz all at hand.
> I asked if he needed to see my documents including passports as well ?
> He said no and apologised for disturbing our holiday and waved us out.


We are really lucky, Graham, in that we lived and I worked in France a long while back. Sue and I both kept up the language so we can chat away with the Frenchies in their own tongue (which is why we love it over here).  We had a real laugh earlier on in our trip with a member of the local Police Municipal.  It was all about Macron, then Brexit but never once did he query us about our documents or various stickers even though he was actually inside our van!


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## Wooie1958 (May 26, 2022)

Me and Shirley can read better than we can speak French but Shirley is much better than me speaking it.
These were mirrored sunglassres, gun toting Gendarmes but were very good with us and wished us a good holiday.


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## Canalsman (May 26, 2022)

Wooie1958 said:


> I just want an easy life Tony especially over here and my philosophy of being legal seemes to be working.
> 2 days back on the way to an aire there was 2 roadside checkpoints ( one on either side ) run by Gendarmes, we got waved in.
> He spoke English and was surprised that i had Angles Morts stickers, Crit-Air sticker, beam benders and hi-viz all at hand.
> I asked if he needed to see my documents including passports as well ?
> He said no and apologised for disturbing our holiday and waved us out.


Like you I have the full set. I believe that, apart from the legalities, it is polite to comply with the host country's requirements.

When in Rome etc ...

I have been stopped once so far this trip near the Italian border and my motorhome was checked internally. The gendarme was polite and spoke to me in English without my requesting him to do so. I believe he may well have acted thus in order to return the courtesy.


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## Wooie1958 (May 27, 2022)

It was only the second time we've actually been pulled into a roadside checkpoint despite seeing plenty over the years.
Previously they've waved us past.


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## GMJ (May 27, 2022)

They are for all vehicles including foreign ones, if over 3500kg. We are in our 3rd month in the EU now and every lorry I have seen here has them as well as many, many MHs (the odd one that looks under 3500kg as well  which is strange)

Watch out for the magnetic ones as I lost one in high winds in Spain in January so I carry a spare now just in case.

It's not worth giving the police an excuse to pull you over I reckon.


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## 1807truckman (May 27, 2022)

Company I work for has them on their trucks that run continental, doesn't matter where you're from you should have them when in France.


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## Canalsman (May 27, 2022)

GMJ said:


> They are for all vehicles including foreign ones, if over 3500kg. We are in our 3rd month in the EU now and every lorry I have seen here has them as well as many, many MHs (the odd one that looks under 3500kg as well  which is strange)
> 
> Watch out for the magnetic ones as I lost one in high winds in Spain in January so I carry a spare now just in case.
> 
> It's not worth giving the police an excuse to pull you over I reckon.


I have secured the leading edge of my magnetic stickers with a length of 3M  Magic Tape.


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## GMJ (May 28, 2022)

Canalsman said:


> I have secured the leading edge of my magnetic stickers with a length of 3M  Magic Tape.



That's a good idea - thanks


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## QFour (Jun 14, 2022)

Majority of French vans are under 3500kg  so doesn't apply.


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## Nabsim (Jun 14, 2022)

Wooie1958 said:


> It was only the second time we've actually been pulled into a roadside checkpoint despite seeing plenty over the years.
> Previously they've waved us past.


Years ago we would get gendarmes with semi-automatic weapons jumping out of bushes to stop a stream of bikers, mainly enrout to bike races. After the first time we put small GB stickers on the front then always got waved on while those without were pulled and checked. There was no way to tell what country a bike is from by looking at the front usually though so not like cars and vans etc.


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## Snapster (Jun 14, 2022)

we’ve been stopped at roadside checks a few times, all they seemed interested in was breath testing me. ( I passed! )


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## Herman (Jun 14, 2022)

Instead of sticking the one on the rear panel I'm just making a panel and bracket, then I will drill and tap the rear bumper bar so I can remove it when we are back in the UK, It may be a bit on the low side as it should start a 900mm high, but will be clearly visible. I'll post a picture when finished.


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## Brockley (Jun 14, 2022)

Before starting our current six month European trip (Schengen rules don’t apply), I was quite worried about payload because six months is quite a long time away and needs become a little more weighty. 3-4 week jollies - fine we can manage the woefully inadequate 3.5 all up weight limit and avoid the need to slap angle morts stickers/magnets on our van. We’ve spend quite a lot of time in France over the years and as previously mentioned here, when these stickers were made compulsory for vehicles over 3.5 tons, many of our favourite Aires became technically inaccessible because of the coincidently introduced road signs excluding traffic over 3.5 tons. We’ve seen dozens of motorhomes obviously over 3.5 tons proudly displaying their angles morts stickers (some even displayed in the right places on their vehicles!), but wondered when the locals/local gendarmerie will cotton on to the fact that overweight motorhomes are using roads which invalidate any insurance should a collision occur?

Luckily our friendly municipal tip has friendly staff who helped me not only with all up weight but front and back axle allowances as well. Our Chausson 630 typically had a woefully inadequate and exaggerated payload. I suspect many other manufacturers play the same game. SvTech up plated us to 4 tons at a reasonable price because someone ahead of us had done the same thing on our particular choice of vehicle so the number crunching had already been done. Like many people here I suspect C1 licences abound so weight up plating isn’t an issue. Very simple to down plate should health issues dictate.

I don’t display angle morts stickers for the following reasons.

1. We have a Mororhome with a footprint no larger than all others plated at 3.5 tons. They are deemed safe to be allowed on the roads without any warning sign requirement. Since March we have recently crossed our 20th European border and have been searched once leaving Turkey to the island of Chios (Greece), token search. Chios to Piraeus was just like the Mersey ferry (ok a 9 hour Mersey Ferry ). We were stopped about 20 miles into Sweden near Mo I Rana by border police, politely questioned, lovely guys nice conversation then waved on. No questions about angle morts and no search.

2. I’d sooner worry about insurance validity whilst in running order than a European directives dictating a sticker requirement that may or may not actually apply. I proudly display my GBM sticker on the back of our van in the knowledge that we have never belonged to Europe, we don’t need to change to a U.K. sticker just because some spiteful EU directive considered GB offensive to people from N.I. Were you offended Trev? I thought you were from the U.K. anyway? .

By the by we met an English couple who put their motorhome in storage in Bulgaria so they could go visit family. When they returned the owner of the storage facility refused to take money from them because he thought their new U.K. sticker meant they were Ukrainian. Not the first time Europeans on this trip have mentioned this to us - perhaps a great time for U.K. travelers?

3. I’d sooner pay a fine for not displaying the angles morts sticker/magnetic encumbrance than have our insurance company renege on cover because of weight infringement either by being overweight on a road leading to a desired location, or being stopped and weighed only to find that the lovely salesman who sold us a machine capable of travelling to the moon and back was a little bit of a fibber.

4. It’s easy and not outrageously expensive to down plate again, could even be a selling point depending on prospective buyers needs. 

In Greece right now, I’ll keep you posted should any officious border person question why we aren’t displaying angle morts stickers/magnetic plates in entirely the exact places according to the specific EU directive.


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## GMJ (Jun 15, 2022)

I display them as we are over 3500kg and its easier to do so rather than give any French gendarme any reason to stop me nor indeed, if stopped for any reason, to give them anything extra to book me on.


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## angiemarien (Jun 15, 2022)

Wooie1958 said:


> Just been talking to an English guy ( only 3rd one i've seen in 3 weeks ) who commented on my Angles Morts stickers.
> He asked why i had them on because they do not apply to us now that we've come out of the EU and anyway they are only for French vehicles.
> 
> View attachment 108898


What are they?


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## Moped (Jun 15, 2022)

Canalsman said:


> I have secured the leading edge of my magnetic stickers with a length of 3M  Magic Tape.


Does the tape leave glue residue on the bodywork when removed?

I have recently purchased a set of magnetic signs for the cab doors and due to cab door panel shape there is not a flat surface on which to place the sign above the legal minimum height. So it has to go on a contoured section. When on the motorway I am concerned they might blow off so the 3M tape idea could save the day.


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## trevexess (Jun 15, 2022)

Brockley said:


> Before starting our current six month European trip (Schengen rules don’t apply), I was quite worried about payload because six months is quite a long time away and needs become a little more weighty. 3-4 week jollies - fine we can manage the woefully inadequate 3.5 all up weight limit and avoid the need to slap angle morts stickers/magnets on our van. We’ve spend quite a lot of time in France over the years and as previously mentioned here, when these stickers were made compulsory for vehicles over 3.5 tons, many of our favourite Aires became technically inaccessible because of the coincidently introduced road signs excluding traffic over 3.5 tons. We’ve seen dozens of motorhomes obviously over 3.5 tons proudly displaying their angles morts stickers (some even displayed in the right places on their vehicles!), but wondered when the locals/local gendarmerie will cotton on to the fact that overweight motorhomes are using roads which invalidate any insurance should a collision occur?
> 
> Luckily our friendly municipal tip has friendly staff who helped me not only with all up weight but front and back axle allowances as well. Our Chausson 630 typically had a woefully inadequate and exaggerated payload. I suspect many other manufacturers play the same game. SvTech up plated us to 4 tons at a reasonable price because someone ahead of us had done the same thing on our particular choice of vehicle so the number crunching had already been done. Like many people here I suspect C1 licences abound so weight up plating isn’t an issue. Very simple to down plate should health issues dictate.
> 
> ...


Why do Schengen rules not apply to you ?


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## Nabsim (Jun 15, 2022)

Brockley said:


> Before starting our current six month European trip (Schengen rules don’t apply), I was quite worried about payload because six months is quite a long time away and needs become a little more weighty. 3-4 week jollies - fine we can manage the woefully inadequate 3.5 all up weight limit and avoid the need to slap angle morts stickers/magnets on our van. We’ve spend quite a lot of time in France over the years and as previously mentioned here, when these stickers were made compulsory for vehicles over 3.5 tons, many of our favourite Aires became technically inaccessible because of the coincidently introduced road signs excluding traffic over 3.5 tons. We’ve seen dozens of motorhomes obviously over 3.5 tons proudly displaying their angles morts stickers (some even displayed in the right places on their vehicles!), but wondered when the locals/local gendarmerie will cotton on to the fact that overweight motorhomes are using roads which invalidate any insurance should a collision occur?
> 
> Luckily our friendly municipal tip has friendly staff who helped me not only with all up weight but front and back axle allowances as well. Our Chausson 630 typically had a woefully inadequate and exaggerated payload. I suspect many other manufacturers play the same game. SvTech up plated us to 4 tons at a reasonable price because someone ahead of us had done the same thing on our particular choice of vehicle so the number crunching had already been done. Like many people here I suspect C1 licences abound so weight up plating isn’t an issue. Very simple to down plate should health issues dictate.
> 
> ...


I am a bit confused by this. If you have up plated your vehicle to 4 tonnes and that is on the V5 then under any circumstances your vehicle is considered to be 4tonnes. I believe (but may be wrong) that displaying the stickers is a legal requirement so there is no technical about it, you will be breaking the law without them. Once rated at 4t any legal restrictions will apply whether or not you display stickers.

Of course I may know of laws I may chose to ignore at my own risk and this is exactly what you are doing so I don’t have any problem, you pays your money you takes your chance and all that. I am just confused on why you think there is a difference in what could happen by displaying the signs or not. I haven’t been awake too long though so it could just be my head not working yet


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## GMJ (Jun 15, 2022)

I was a little confused as well. If the insurance is invalidated by driving a 4t vehicle where one shouldn't then regardless of stickers it is against the local rules/law and if, as stated, the insurance is invalid then it is invalid regardless of stickers or not.


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## Wooie1958 (Jun 15, 2022)

My motorhome is rated at 4,100kg and that is confirmed on the new VIN plate, V5C and the .GOV site so i am required " by law " to display them in France.

For those that wish not to display them when required and then get caught the old saying springs to mind    ................................................................

*Don`t come running to me when you break your leg            *


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## Wooie1958 (Jun 15, 2022)

angiemarien said:


> What are they?



They are stickers that are required to be displayed in France on vehicles that are over 3.500kg GVW.


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## GMJ (Jun 15, 2022)

It's an easy law/rule to follow imho. Yes it displays to the world that you are over 3500kg but having had 2 months in Spain and a month in France so far this year it hasn't inhibited us at all. Being 5t in weight I am watchful for weight no go areas anyway.


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## GMJ (Jun 15, 2022)

Wooie1958 said:


> They are stickers that are required to be displayed in France on vehicles that are over 3.500kg GVW.



...whether French or foreign.


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## runnach (Jun 15, 2022)

I better get these, how many required, and where to purchase?

Thanks.


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## GMJ (Jun 15, 2022)

Look for a pack of 3 on Ebay - 2 magnetic for the doors and one sticky one for the rear.


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## mark61 (Jun 15, 2022)

Obey silly rules, get more silly rules.


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## Tonybvi (Jun 15, 2022)

GMJ said:


> Look for a pack of 3 on Ebay - 2 magnetic for the doors and one sticky one for the rear.


If you have an A class like mine (Hymer) the magnetic ones don’t even work on the doors!


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## Wooie1958 (Jun 15, 2022)

3 needed, look at the graphics for where to place them.









						Blind Spot French Attention Angles Morts Motorhome Stickers | Graphics UK
					

BLIND SPOT ATTENTION ANGLES MORTS STICKERThese French Blind spot Stickers also know as Angles Morts Stickers are mandatory in France from the 1st of January 2021. From this date, all vehicles above 3.5 tonnes are required to display these stickers on the vehicles such as heavy goods vehicles...




					www.graphicsuk.com
				




A Gendarme was very interested when he saw the Camping Car on mine and asked where i`d got them, i have these ones.









						French Blind Spot 3x Vinyl Sticker Motorhome ATTENTION ANGLES MORTS  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for French Blind Spot 3x Vinyl Sticker Motorhome ATTENTION ANGLES MORTS at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.



					www.ebay.co.uk


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## GMJ (Jun 15, 2022)

Tonybvi said:


> If you have an A class like mine (Hymer) the magnetic ones don’t even work on the doors!


Good point...in that case get 3 sticky ones!


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## Drover (Jun 15, 2022)

You only need them stupid stickers in Urban Areas.
How the French determine an urban area is anyone's guess

Ps, I forgot to buy some, 2 months I forgot for


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## Brockley (Jun 15, 2022)

trevexess said:


> Why do Schengen rules not apply to you ?


Irish wife.


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## Herman (Jun 15, 2022)

Herman said:


> Instead of sticking the one on the rear panel I'm just making a panel and bracket, then I will drill and tap the rear bumper bar so I can remove it when we are back in the UK, It may be a bit on the low side as it should start a 900mm high, but will be clearly visible. I'll post a picture when finished.


I tried my mock bracket on the rear bumper today, and basically it looked crap, so I'll do the same as everyone else and stick the back one on, but what I'll do is cut a 10mm boarder off the backing so it will not be stuck in the middle 150mm x 230mm so easier to peel off for the other 50 weeks of the year we don't need them.


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## Brockley (Jun 15, 2022)

Nabsim said:


> I am a bit confused by this. If you have up plated your vehicle to 4 tonnes and that is on the V5 then under any circumstances your vehicle is considered to be 4tonnes. I believe (but may be wrong) that displaying the stickers is a legal requirement so there is no technical about it, you will be breaking the law without them. Once rated at 4t any legal restrictions will apply whether or not you display stickers.
> 
> Of course I may know of laws I may chose to ignore at my own risk and this is exactly what you are doing so I don’t have any problem, you pays your money you takes your chance and all that. I am just confused on why you think there is a difference in what could happen by displaying the signs or not. I haven’t been awake too long though so it could just be my head not working yet


Don’t have a V5 and the only country I’ve seen motorhomes displaying these stickers routinely is France, on vehicles obviously over the 3.5 ton limit, yet they are resting in places they could only have gained access to by nullifying their insurance. The growing number of roads in France prohibiting vehicles over 3.5 tons. No other country seems bothered in the slightest about angle morts stickers on Motorhomes. 

As mentioned 20 EU borders crossed to date on this trip, two customs searches - no issues. Again as mentioned I only up plated for this trip because the majority of motorhomes in the 3.5 ton class prepared for a reasonably long trip (including ours) would be over weight -  not insured should the unthinkable happen. Running the risk of a €135 fine for not displaying angles morts stickers on a vehicle that visually fits the criteria for a motorhome under 3,5 tons is fine with me, it’s only likely to happen in France if an overly zealous gendarme decides to check my weight plates and we’re only likely to be there on this trip for a short while.

I guess the point I’m trying to make is that most motorhomes plated at 3.5 tons are over the limit once all extras are loaded up for a good spin. Hence my trips to our local friendly municipal tip with an accurate weigh bridge. It isn’t just the all up weight that matters either, overload front or rear axles and your friendly insurers are likely to fall out with you should the unimaginable happen. 

This might not work for everyone, especially ardent Francophiles but it works for me


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## Canalsman (Jun 15, 2022)

Moped said:


> Does the tape leave glue residue on the bodywork when removed?
> 
> I have recently purchased a set of magnetic signs for the cab doors and due to cab door panel shape there is not a flat surface on which to place the sign above the legal minimum height. So it has to go on a contoured section. When on the motorway I am concerned they might blow off so the 3M tape idea could save the day.


No residue, I've just removed my stickers after being attached for two months. That's why I chose that tape ...


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## Canalsman (Jun 15, 2022)

Brockley said:


> Don’t have a V5 and the only country I’ve seen motorhomes displaying these stickers routinely is France, on vehicles obviously over the 3.5 ton limit, yet they are resting in places they could only have gained access to by nullifying their insurance. The growing number of roads in France prohibiting vehicles over 3.5 tons. No other country seems bothered in the slightest about angle morts stickers on Motorhomes.
> 
> As mentioned 20 EU borders crossed to date on this trip, two customs searches - no issues. Again as mentioned I only up plated for this trip because the majority of motorhomes in the 3.5 ton class prepared for a reasonably long trip (including ours) would be over weight -  not insured should the unthinkable happen. Running the risk of a €135 fine for not displaying angles morts stickers on a vehicle that visually fits the criteria for a motorhome under 3,5 tons is fine with me, it’s only likely to happen in France if an overly zealous gendarme decides to check my weight plates and we’re only likely to be there on this trip for a short while.
> 
> ...


Your insurance will not be invalidated by ignoring the weight restriction on a section of road any more than it is not invalidated by exceeding the speed limit. In both instances the likely outcome is a fine and in the UK points on your licence for speeding.

The lack of interest in Angles Mort stickers in countries other than France is unsurprising. The stickers are a requirement under French law!


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## Canalsman (Jun 15, 2022)

Drover said:


> You only need them stupid stickers in Urban Areas.
> How the French determine an urban area is anyone's guess
> 
> Ps, I forgot to buy some, 2 months I forgot for


They are not stupid stickers, they are a legal requirement throughout France and not just in urban areas.


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## Tim120 (Jun 15, 2022)

Came today to France, a motorhomimg welcoming çountry, have complied and am happy to do so.


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## Brockley (Jun 15, 2022)

Canalsman said:


> Your insurance will not be invalidated by ignoring the weight restriction on a section of road any more than it is not invalidated by exceeding the speed limit. In both instances the likely outcome is a fine and in the UK points on your licence for speeding.
> 
> The lack of interest in Angles Mort stickers in countries other than France is unsurprising. The stickers are a requirement under French law!


So in France, a vehicle over 3.5 tons displaying angle morts stickers causing a RTC on roads prohibiting traffic over 3.5 tons will only receive the €135 fine and retain all insurance cover?


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## Canalsman (Jun 15, 2022)

Brockley said:


> So in France, a vehicle over 3.5 tons displaying angle morts stickers causing a RTC on roads prohibiting traffic over 3.5 tons will only receive the €135 fine and retain all insurance cover?


I can see no reason why it would not remain fully insured.


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## Brockley (Jun 16, 2022)

Really? I know that in English law overloaded vehicles involved in RTC’s nullify insurance. I’m simply guessing that French law is similar. What about vehicles over 3.5 tons displaying angles morts stickers becoming involved in RTC’s while on roads they are excluded from. Are they still insured?

I get your point about being fined for indiscretions like speeding or having angle morts markings on roads you shouldn’t be travelling on, but this only applies if no RTC has occurred and as mentioned I am prepared to run the risk of a fine for not displaying angle morts stickers but I’m not prepared to run the risk of becoming overweight through accumulation on such a long trip and have the misfortune of losing my insurance cover if someone runs into me just because we are slightly overloaded.

I’ll reiterate the point of my initial post as it does seem to have caused some confusion. 3.5 ton plated motorhomes in the most part come with optimistic payloads hence my decision to up plate. I’ll probably down plate after this trip but when travelling for extended periods the thought of losing insurance cover because of weight issues following a RTC is not something I wouldn’t  gamble with.


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## Drover (Jun 16, 2022)

Canalsman said:


> They are not stupid stickers, they are a legal requirement throughout France and not just in urban areas.


They are stupid.
Simple to instruct simple people that drivers of vehicle can't see all around..
I was taught that nearly 70 years ago.... it's not hard is it...
The weight of a vehicle is irrelevant to vision...
Edit for urban


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## Brockley (Jun 16, 2022)

Exactly - because I’ve temporarily up plated our van from 3.5 tons to 4 tons, how can it suddenly develop ‘blind spots’? 

“This obligation applies to commercial vehicles travelling in an urban environment” Thanks for this, I’ve screen shot it!

The €135 fine can be decreased or increased 

Loss of 1-6 points  it’s pretty consistent then.


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## Geek (Jun 16, 2022)

On a RHD the blind spot is at the rear left, not the rear right, where the sticker has to go. That's stupid.


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## Brockley (Jun 16, 2022)

Makes sense, thanks for sharing


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## Herman (Jun 16, 2022)

Geek said:


> On a RHD the blind spot is at the rear left, not the rear right, where the sticker has to go. That's stupid.


That may be correct but a cyclist will under take you in slow moving traffic not over take you and in France the under take is on our drivers side, hence the warning is on their nearside (kerb side) which is our drivers side. If your going around a right hand turn your rear end will close up that gap to your side, and the stickers are not there for us but for a cyclist has fewer brain cells (otherwise he would have a driving licence) and cannot comprehend this.


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## TJBi (Jun 17, 2022)

Brockley said:


> Exactly - because I’ve temporarily up plated our van from 3.5 tons to 4 tons, how can it suddenly develop ‘blind spots’?
> 
> “This obligation applies to commercial vehicles travelling in an urban environment” Thanks for this, I’ve screen shot it!
> 
> ...


Having up-plated your van, its authorised total weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes and is therefore subject to prohibitions of vehicles whose total authorised weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes, irrespective of the actual weight at the time.
As for the question of urban areas, I doubt that many people driving in France would be able to completely avoid urban areas. I would venture to suggest that if within an area bounded by the commune name signs that automatically impose a 50km/h speed limit, you are considered to be in an urban environment.


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## GMJ (Jun 17, 2022)

Ultimately I think it's no hardship to display them and, if stopped for any other matter, gives an over zealous French copper less to pick you up on.


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## Brockley (Jun 17, 2022)

TJBi said:


> Having up-plated your van, its authorised total weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes and is therefore subject to prohibitions of vehicles whose total authorised weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes, irrespective of the actual weight at the time.
> As for the question of urban areas, I doubt that many people driving in France would be able to completely avoid urban areas. I would venture to suggest that if within an area bounded by the commune name signs that automatically impose a 50km/h speed limit, you are considered to be in an urban environment.


Quite true, but in smaller towns and villages you’re more likely to encounter roads which exclude vehicles over 3.5 tons. Given the profile of this van I’d sooner run the risk of a €135 fine which may be “decreased or increased”  (love to know the determining factors ).

As I’ve mentioned previously, one example of this is the farm Aire at Tardinghen, it can only be accessed on roads excluding vehicles displaying the angle morts stickers. Saw plenty of them parked up there just after the rule was thought up. One was pulling a trailer.


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## Brockley (Jun 17, 2022)

GMJ said:


> Ultimately I think it's no hardship to display them and, if stopped for any other matter, gives an over zealous French copper less to pick you up on.



The hardship for me would be the reduced choice of Aires.


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## Brockley (Jun 17, 2022)

Herman said:


> That may be correct but a cyclist will under take you in slow moving traffic not over take you and in France the under take is on our drivers side, hence the warning is on their nearside (kerb side) which is our drivers side. If your going around a right hand turn your rear end will close up that gap to your side, and the stickers are not there for us but for a cyclist has fewer brain cells (otherwise he would have a driving licence) and cannot comprehend this.



That’s also true, but my experience of cyclists dangerously undertaking vehicles in slow moving traffic tells me that they aren’t interested in what a plastic stickers say, they are only interested in is getting down the line as quickly as possible.


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## TJBi (Jun 17, 2022)

Brockley said:


> Quite true, but in smaller towns and villages you’re more likely to encounter roads which exclude vehicles over 3.5 tons. Given the profile of this van I’d sooner run the risk of a €135 fine which may be “decreased or increased”  (love to know the determining factors ).
> 
> As I’ve mentioned previously, one example of this is the farm Aire at Tardinghen, it can only be accessed on roads excluding vehicles displaying the angle morts stickers. Saw plenty of them parked up there just after the rule was thought up. One was pulling a trailer.


But that would appear to result in you infringing two legal requirements rather than one, with all the attendant consequences.


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## TJBi (Jun 17, 2022)

GMJ said:


> Ultimately I think it's no hardship to display them and, if stopped for any other matter, gives an over zealous French copper less to pick you up on.


Probably any French law enforcement officer, irrespective of degree of zeal.


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## winks (Jun 17, 2022)

As always, the law is a total bloody mess and,I suspect, cooked up by someone paying lip service to road safety. Is there no longer a requirement for folk to be responsible for their own safety and conduct on the road?

Interestingly I note that the the article from the fleet publication refers only to commercial vehicles. Our van is PHGV but is is not a commercial vehicle and the fixing of these stickers, it could be argued, mark it out such to French authorities. On the insurance front, to my mind, if I have been honest and open when I arranged the policy I'd expect to  be treated in accordance with the terms of the policy. I'd still have to keep an eye on the 3.5t restrictions because we are plated at 4.5t, so the access to aires could be problematic.

As has been said, if you get pulled by a zealot it could be a problem ...

Cheers

H


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## Brockley (Jun 17, 2022)

My risk I guess, similar to the risk the many with stickers take when on prohibited roads. Wonder which carries the larger (or lower fine? )


TJBi said:


> But that would appear to result in you infringing two legal requirements rather than one, with all the attendant consequences.


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## TJBi (Jun 17, 2022)

winks said:


> As always, the law is a total bloody mess and,I suspect, cooked up by someone paying lip service to road safety. Is there no longer a requirement for folk to be responsible for their own safety and conduct on the road?
> 
> Interestingly I note that the the article from the fleet publication refers only to commercial vehicles. Our van is PHGV but is is not a commercial vehicle and the fixing of these stickers, it could be argued, mark it out such to French authorities. On the insurance front, to my mind, if I have been honest and open when I arranged the policy I'd expect to  be treated in accordance with the terms of the policy. I'd still have to keep an eye on the 3.5t restrictions because we are plated at 4.5t, so the access to aires could be problematic.
> 
> ...


The fleet publication is presumably targeted at operators of (heavy) commercial vehicles, so refers to those vehicles. If one goes back to the French legislation, it is quite clear that it applies to virtually all vehicles with an authorised total weight in excess of 3.5 tonnes with just a few exceptions (agricultural and forestry vehicles, maintenance vehicles for motorways and (non-urban) dual carriageways, snowploughs and salt-spreaders...).


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## brian c (Jun 17, 2022)

Hi after following this thread and others on the forum.  I seem to find that it does not matter what country. What law.  The members choose which one to obey.  Ie. That’s a stupid rule law I will not obey that one. Applies to  headlamp beam adjusters too.  I personally think laws are made   For us to obey liking or disliking  them   Why should the police etc. bother with crimes.  Obviously the person that broke the law did not like that law. So did not obey it. The saying  I’ve been doing it for years never been stopped.  Springs to mind. That was my saying till 10 years ago and I was stopped breathalyser 0750 in the morning positive arrested.  Taken to station charged etc.  0903 I requested a breathalisyer test. Passed given keys and allowed to drive away  one hour thirteen minutes between drunk to sober lost licence for a year    You only need to be caught not how many times you have not been caught.   Brian


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## Brockley (Jun 17, 2022)

That’s very unlucky Brian, but drink driving is on another level. Silly rules quite different. Rules are for obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men. Well said Douglas.


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## SimonM (Jun 17, 2022)

Perhaps the Angles Morts could be mounted like a semaphore indicator and triggered by a proximity switch, then any encroaching Lycra clad organ donors could be simply swatted into the ditch. Could I patent this idea?


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## brian c (Jun 18, 2022)

Must be me then.  Silly rules  laws etc. if I am visiting some one or a country  or a forum I believe it is only correct to obey there rules laws no matter what I think. For eg. Phillip da boss  says on these forums don’t do this or that  makes no difference what I think. It’s his and if I want to use the forum I obey.  No such thing as silly minor major. Law is law. Everyone has a choice. Obey or ignore.    Bet when if they get caught they don’t say oh well my fault. No the first thing is. It’s a stupid law what idiot made it.   Brian


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## brian c (Jun 18, 2022)

Ref my thread 62.  Should read 26 years ago not 10.  DUI.    Time flies.  Brian


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## Brockley (Aug 19, 2022)

Crossed into France this morning from Germany via Breisach. Stopping at the lovely Aire in Neuf-Brisach. Lovely UNESCO town with a free spacious Aire right in the centre of the town. Did some exploring and noticed all roads in are 3.5 t weight restricted.

These are our neighbours for the night - all French registered and most I’m guessing just by looking at them are over 3.5 t. None displaying Angle Mort stickers!


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## Brockley (Aug 19, 2022)

Local Gendarmes have been circling without interest. This is the view to our van from the local Gendarmerie.


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## Snapster (Aug 19, 2022)

Most camping cars over 3.5tonnes will have their weight plates visible from the kerb. I doubt any of those are over 3500kg.


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## Brockley (Aug 19, 2022)

Snapster said:


> Most camping cars over 3.5tonnes will have their weight plates visible from the kerb. I doubt any of those are over 3500kg.



We couldn’t keep our weight down to 3.5 given the duration of our trip and equipment needed, not to mention inevitable weight gain (both personal and acquired tat ). 

Three of these vans have footprints that dwarf ours and there is no possible way they could be lighter than us.

You make an interesting point about 3.5t + camping cars having weight plates visible from the kerb. Where exactly would they be displayed?


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## Snapster (Aug 19, 2022)

Usually displayed by the front wheel on the body. You’ll see commercial vehicles and trailers with them too.


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## Brockley (Aug 19, 2022)

Thanks for that, I’ll keep an eye out for them and get back. We were told by SvTech that we had to display ours under the bonnet next to the original plate. Invisible from the road. Do you think this is just a British thing and that continental camping cars are instructed to display their plates by the front wheel on the body?


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## SimonM (Aug 19, 2022)

My Burstner has its weight plate displayed on the body just behind the drivers door - 3500kg - clearly visible to all and sundry

the plate under the bonnet shows it’s 4100kg since I had it uprated, invisible to all.


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## Brockley (Aug 19, 2022)

SimonM said:


> My Burstner has its weight plate displayed on the body just behind the drivers door - 3500kg - clearly visible to all and sundry
> 
> the plate under the bonnet shows it’s 4100kg since I had it uprated, invisible to all.



That’s interesting, invisible like mine. Again it would be interesting to know if the same thing applies on the continent.


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## witzend (Aug 19, 2022)

Snapster said:


> Usually displayed by the front wheel on the body. You’ll see commercial vehicles and trailers with them too.


I wonder if owners notifie their insurers when they uprate their weight or ignore that as well. What is the problem with displaying a Morts sticker most motorhomes have graphics of some sort


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## Snapster (Aug 19, 2022)

Brockley said:


> Thanks for that, I’ll keep an eye out for them and get back. We were told by SvTech that we had to display ours under the bonnet next to the original plate. Invisible from the road. Do you think this is just a British thing and that continental camping cars are instructed to display their plates by the front wheel on the body?


It’s a separate plate on the body. There is still a vin plate from the manufacturer ( Fiat) under the bonnet, the same as the U.K.  Mine also has a vin plate from Burstner on the passenger door pillar.


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## Brockley (Aug 19, 2022)

witzend said:


> I wonder if owners notifie their insurers when they uprate their weight or ignore that as well. What is the problem with displaying a Morts sticker most motorhomes have graphics of some sort



We did inform our insurer about up plating. Problem with displaying Morts stickers - I think this has been covered pretty well, some seem to prefer magnetic alternatives so that when not in France they can easily be removed, this kind of says to me that their unsightly nature aren’t favoured. I certainly couldn’t compare them with motorhome graphics! 

Again, in my opinion, you’d stand out like a sore thumb displaying Morts stickers turning up to an Aire like the one we arrived at today, trundling into town on roads all displaying 3.5t signs. Again I’ll say there’s no way at least three of the vans in this Aire tonight are running at 3.5 tonnes of below, yet none are displaying the stickers, all of them French registered.


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## Brockley (Aug 19, 2022)

Snapster said:


> It’s a separate plate on the body. There is still a vin plate from the manufacturer ( Fiat) under the bonnet, the same as the U.K.  Mine also has a vin plate from Burstner on the passenger door pillar.



Both lower weight plates invisible then? So which manufacturers display their actual plate rating visible from the kerb? All very confusing!


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## GMJ (Aug 20, 2022)

I cannot recall seeing my weight plate being visible on my MH. It's an Autotrail Comanche which is 4.15t empty and 5t fully laden.

I'll have to have a closer look but as I've washed the blimming thing enough times I thought I would have noticed it by now.


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## Compo (Aug 20, 2022)

no i have a comanche and no weight plate visible from outside plate is under the bonnet


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## Wooie1958 (Aug 20, 2022)

I actually have 4 plates on my motorhome.

1, Peugeot VIN plate giving all the usual info and showing it as GVW 3,500kg.

2, ALKO VIN plate giving the same info but showing an upgrade to GVW 3,850kg. Both of these are on the slam panel under the bonnet and take up all the space.

3, Sv Tech VIN sticker giving the same info but showing an upgrade to GVW 4,100kg. This is on the drivers side inner wheel arch as per Sv Tech`s instructions.

4, Explorer Group Compass plate giving the Serial Number and the MTPLM 3,850kg. This is a metal 2" x 1" plate on the body down by the habitation door.


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## witzend (Aug 20, 2022)

Brockley said:


> Again, in my opinion, you’d stand out like a sore thumb displaying Morts stickers turning up to an Aire like the one we arrived at today, trundling into town on roads all displaying 3.5t signs.


There are 2 -   3.5 weight restrictions in France one shows a lorry which wouldn't apply to motorhomes the one with out the lorry does


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## Geek (Aug 20, 2022)

In the UK, there are weight limits that apply to commercial vehicles and weight limits that apply to all vehicles. The former have a picture of a lorry on them.
I'm not sure, but I assume it's the same in France.


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## Brockley (Aug 20, 2022)

witzend said:


> There are 2 -   3.5 weight restrictions in France one shows a lorry which wouldn't apply to motorhomes the one with out the lorry does



I know. They also have axle weight limit signs, which presumably apply to all vehicles. However, I’m specifically interested in signs affecting motorhomes.


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## Nabsim (Aug 20, 2022)

My Geist is German built and has no manufacturers or other plates externally. Mercedes plate under the bonnet, LMC sticker in hab door footwell and SVTech sticker in hab door footwell. Mine is early 2007 though so may have been before any requirement for external plates.
Original maximum loaded weight was 3850kgs


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## Snapster (Aug 20, 2022)

GMJ said:


> I cannot recall seeing my weight plate being visible on my MH. It's an Autotrail Comanche which is 4.15t empty and 5t fully laden.
> 
> I'll have to have a closer look but as I've washed the blimming thing enough times I thought I would have noticed it by now.


The external weight plate doesn’t apply to U.K. built vehicles, as far as I understand, it applies to French vehicles and maybe other EU countries have them.


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## Jo001 (Sep 17, 2022)

Just saw this picture - translation (they) 'Didn't read the sticker!'


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