# Drive Belt problems - Talbot Express



## mildred (May 10, 2009)

Morning!

I'll be embarking on the *third* day of fighting with drive belts today - perhaps somebody else has been here and can give tips?

The van is a 1990 Talbot Express - supposedly a 2.499 non-turbo diesel - but the engine doesn't quite tally with the pictures in the Russek manual I have nor those in whatever manual it is that was scanned and is frequently available on fleabay.

The belt between the crank and the water pump broke during the week - luckily only a couple of miles from home and I was able to get i back - though the engine temp went into the red, and braking was difficult.  Also the belt stayed in the engine bay and wasn't lost.

Neither of the two local motor parts shops had the engine listed in their books but one was able to find me a belt that was the same length - a 10AV0787.

However - I couldn't fit it!  There was just no room between the crank pulley wheel  and the gearbox.  Finally it's on, having sliced the top off 20 of the "Vs" and cut away a piece of the pulley flange to give extra clearance where there is reduced clearance around the gearbox mounting bolt bosses.  Desperate measures - but there was only 3mm clearance around 1/4 of the pulley circumference.  I only needed to take one bite out of the flange as I was able to persuade the belt on by aligning the bite with one boss, then turning the crank so the bite aligned with the other boss - then using a tyre lever to squeeze the belt between the flange and the alloy of the engine/gearbox section.  That's where the 3mm gap is.

The layout of belts on this particular model is one from crank to water pump - then one from pump to alternator and another from pump to brake servo - so the crank to pump link is crucial!

The problem I now have is that the new belt keeps flipping over so that the teeth of the Vs are uppermost - despite the tensioner jockey wheel being in place (this sits mid run between the top of the crank pulley wheel and the top of the water-pump pulley. 

I can't see that this is going to be a long term solution - it can't be doing the belt any good, though presumably better than using a pair of tights.... 

Just to be clear - there is no adjustment available on the waterpump and crank - these are fixed spindles and short of removing the gear box or crank pulley wheel I don't see how else to get the belt in place.   

Any useful tips or advice gratefully  received !

Regards all

"M"


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## runnach (May 10, 2009)

I cant help with the issue.

However if no help is forthcoming, I believe the engine you refer too was fitted to the Citroen Cx ( turbo and non turbo) 

It might be worth looking at one of their forums to see if there is a 'secret'

good luck 

Channa


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## lenny (May 10, 2009)

Hi Mildred ,try this forum, lots of info on Talbots and the like

Preloved | UK free ads - buy and sell with local classifieds

Just click on forums then campervans.

Good luck


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## mildred (May 10, 2009)

*talbot express belts*

thanks to Lenny's suggestion I had a look at "preloved" and found that somebody had had the same problem a few weeks ago and a member had given an answer.  

Apparently one can take the crank pulley apart (reference to six small bolts) without taking it off the crank which allows you to move it just enough to get replacement belts in.  Also learned that there should be *two* not one belts from crank to water pump - makes sense when a breakage results in catastrophe!

Thanks for the suggestions and the pointer to the source of knowledge ....

MOT time tomorrow....

M


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## scotsy (May 10, 2009)

Mildred,

my memories of owning a citroen C25 derived 'milk van' still give me nightmares many years later (same as talbot express with 2.5 non-turbo diesel as you say). 

I went through many driveshafts and several belts over the years but i can't for the life of me remember the layout of the belts. 

The 'timing belt' broke once and bent all the pushrods in the engine, i got the new parts in put everything back with the pullys lined up as per book (i had changed this belt every year as a matter of preventative maintenance) and when i turned the engine over (spanner on crank pulley nut) it jammed

After double checking EVERYTHING and enlisting the help of a diesel fitter it turned out that the pulley had sheared the woodruff key and gone out of sync with the rest of the engine. We fixed it between us but i vowed never to own a similar van ever again.

Most garages will have a book that shows the routing of the belts around the pullys and idlers/tensioners for EVERY engine made, maybe you could ask for a look at one? 

Could you not undo the crank pulley nut and slide/lever it away from the engine a few mm to fit the belt, then tighten the pulley back into place?

Good luck anyway


It took me that long to reply, some one beat me to it HA HA


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## mildred (Jun 9, 2011)

*fitting talbot express drive belt*

Greetings!

Two years after my original plea for help,  googling today for:

fitting talbot express drive belt

brings up that first post.

Yes - I've had to do the job again - the flipped over belt broke within a few thousand miles so I thought I'd do the job properly. 

Hah!

Over on preloved was the suggestion to remove the pulley from the end of the crank to get the necessary clearance.  Trouble is that either a boss on the end of the crank OR a large washer (cant make out which) stops one from turning the bolt heads.  There isn't quite enough room to get even a high-quality thin walled socket head properly located.  Open ended spanners just rounded the head :-(
There was no hope of undoing the 24mm nut on the end of the crank with the tools I have.

An hours work with a diamond cut-off disk in a Dremel on the boss/washer gave enough clearance to get a socket onto the heads of the six bolts which were removed without further drama.

But STILL I couldn't move the pulley enough to get a new belt on - even with aligning the cut-away on the edge of the pulley (previous bodge!).  Back again with the Dremel, removing even more metal from the boss/washer to allow the top of the pulley wheel to come forward and angle away from the gearbox mounts at the bottom  which are what stops the belt being fitted.

Once that was done a simple matter to get the belt in place, and refit the tensioner wheel.

No idea if it's the correct belt,  but I've used a Quinton Hazell QBA813 which is a 10mm wide, 813mm long toothed V belt.  The tensioner wheel is towards the end of the adjustment range with this belt, but not at the point where it would hit other pulleys.

RockAuto Auto Parts lists either the Gates 6213LM AVP10 x 825L or  QBA825 depending on whether you look for Talbot Express or Citroen C25 - I'm sure these would be too long though.

I'm just amazed at how difficult what should be a simple job turned out to be - I suspect my engine/gearbox isn't quite original so I might have gearbox mounts a bit different from standard, or even different pulley wheel diameters, If this was a common problem I'd sure there'd be more on the web about it - and how to fix it.

Hoping this write-up may help anybody else who searches for:

fitting talbot express drive belt

Regards,

Mild Red


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## winchman (Jun 15, 2011)

You need to join the Talbot owners forum its free
http://talbotoc.freeforums.org/


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## mildred (Jun 15, 2011)

winchman said:


> You need to join the Talbot owners forum its free
> Talbot EXPRESS Campervan/Motorhome Owners Club & Forum (Peugeot J5, Citroen C25 & Fiat Ducato models) • Index page


 
Thanks for the pointer to the forum - I've signed up.

Looks like others have got the belt on with sheer brute force and turning the engine over to force the belt into the groove!


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## rickboy (Jun 16, 2011)

*belt up*

Try jacking up the belt side road wheel ,just position the belt to start on the pully and turn the road wheel to feed it on,mind fingers!!
Best of luck.


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## denboys (Aug 12, 2011)

*denboys*



rickboy said:


> Try jacking up the belt side road wheel ,just position the belt to start on the pully and turn the road wheel to feed it on,mind fingers!!
> Best of luck.


 
just take of the pully 5 or 6 bolts you must have the same make of belt


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