# I have some land, Do I need a Licence for WILD CAMPING?



## CoolCamper (Nov 3, 2012)

I own 4.5 acres, stables and farmyard animals. It's a friendly atmosphere with great views. I have a spare hard car parking area and thought it would be great for camping, I have toilets and water facilities. The beach is just a mile up the road through a small village. 

Do I need a licence for you guys to come on to my land and park up for the night/week? 

Kind Regards 

Leanne x
The Stables


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## Flamenca (Nov 3, 2012)

You could consider having a certificated site for 6 pitches. No planning permission required but you do have to enter into some sort of agreement with one of the clubs like the Camping Club.


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## CoolCamper (Nov 3, 2012)

That's great thank you!


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## Flamenca (Nov 3, 2012)

Out of interest, which part of the country are you?


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## CoolCamper (Nov 3, 2012)

East Coast, Lincolnshire.


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## FULL TIMER (Nov 3, 2012)

CoolCamper said:


> I own 4.5 acres, stables and farmyard animals. It's a friendly atmosphere with great views. I have a spare hard car parking area and thought it would be great for camping, I have toilets and water facilities. The beach is just a mile up the road through a small village.
> 
> Do I need a licence for you guys to come on to my land and park up for the night/week?
> 
> ...



if you are inviting people as "guests" now and then I don't see a problem, but as has been said if you want  to establish a small site restricted to 5 vans / caravans you could become a CL (certificated location) these are organised by the Caravan Club  or CS (certificated site ) organised by the Camping & Caravanning Club. both require at least 1 fresh water point and somewhere to dispose of toilet waste. you do not have to supply electric or toilets /showers. If accepted, going through one of the clubs  saves a lot of hassle ie no planning permission needed, they will also offer advice. I personally think the C&CC is the best way to go as not only could you have upto 5 vans / caravans you are also allowed tents.


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## daisymini (Nov 3, 2012)

Im east coast..!!! got our first camper??...:wave:


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## daisymini (Nov 3, 2012)

May i just add apart from Huttoft and Moggs eye not far from me, im oblivious to somewhere better and would love an alternative.  Ive found for me personally on this part of the east coast we are limited. So good luck and please do!!!


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## Tbear (Nov 3, 2012)

Give the Camping and Caravan Club a ring.
They will sort the planning, council, insurance, the lot. Means that you are only meant to have their members but ??.
Caravan Club do a similar thing but I,m not a member so I won't say much about them.
Richard


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## vwalan (Nov 3, 2012)

planning laws . 28 days etc , a mans house isnt his castle . 
you can or may get away with friends stopping but dont bank on it .


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## vindiboy (Nov 3, 2012)

The Motorcaravanners Club is also looking for people to open sites and will do all the leg work for you as will the Camping and Caravan Club, but if it is  just for friends to stopover you don't need permission, BUT your nosey neighbor will eventually complain and officialdom will come knocking for sure.


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## John H (Nov 3, 2012)

We used to use a site that wasn't a site (if you see what Imean!). On the gate was a sign that said "only friends and family allowed" but this was a thinly-veiled campsite without permission. It has now been closed down. Pity - it was good and cheap!


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## Kontiki (Nov 3, 2012)

What do you mean by wild camping? Is it that people can park on your land for free or do you want a fee? If you are not charging anybody & not providing any facilities then I don't see what the problem would be, people could just park on your land, if any neighbours were to complain you could argue that you were trying to find out how to get them moved (look how long it took them to move people from Dale Farm)


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## vwalan (Nov 3, 2012)

at dale farm alot bought their plots . best not confuse issues .


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## Deleted member 24143 (Nov 3, 2012)

If it is for wild camping and people staying make a voluntary contribution for, let's say water, does this get around any regulations? Since CoolCamper is aiming the plot at wild campers they could say that people park on their land to which they have no objection.


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## dave and mary (Nov 3, 2012)

my my you do have a lot of relations nudge nudge know what i mean.      but it is a great gesture and thanks   :drive:


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## vwalan (Nov 3, 2012)

if you have no objection then you must abide by the rules . 
it could be noone complains yet could be they do it right away. 
might even be other local by laws as well . life aint as easy as we would like ./


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## tommytli (Nov 3, 2012)

you could use clubs that have the camping exemption certificates, i think wildcamping have one i know a club i use camping club uk have just got 1.


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## sean rua (Nov 3, 2012)

At Dale Farm we are now on our private lane leading up to DF, or, crowded onto the part of the site that was deemed legal and thus escaped devastation by the council's agents.

Tony is trying to get us off both places. The force is with him, so his side are the likely winner.
The situation has NEVER  been so bad in the whole history of the place. Even Len ( the "nosy neighbour"?) thinks that Tony has made a right horlicks.

Basically, in East Anglia, rich people can do moreorless what they like,provided the powers-that-be do not decide to take a dislike to them. If they do so decide, then *they* can do more-or-less what *they* like to stop* you*.
 If you're in the former category, you'll be fine, whatever you do.


sean rua.


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## fofeg101 (Nov 3, 2012)

sean rua said:


> At Dale Farm we are now on our private lane leading up to DF, or, crowded onto the part of the site that was deemed legal and thus escaped devastation by the council's agents.
> 
> Tony is trying to get us off both places. The force is with him, so his side are the likely winner.
> The situation has NEVER  been so bad in the whole history of the place. Even Len ( the "nosy neighbour"?) thinks that Tony has made a right horlicks.
> ...


Irish Tinkers should be deported back to Ireland.


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## Firefox (Nov 4, 2012)

CoolCamper said:


> I own 4.5 acres, stables and farmyard animals. It's a friendly atmosphere with great views. I have a spare hard car parking area and thought it would be great for camping, I have toilets and water facilities. The beach is just a mile up the road through a small village.
> 
> Do I need a licence for you guys to come on to my land and park up for the night/week?
> 
> ...



Strictly you do need a licence if it is regular for more than two nights or more than one unit, but I believe one unit for up to two nights is an exemption under the 1960 act, so that is always OK. This is how pubs can give permission to people to stay for up to two nights in their car parks.


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 4, 2012)

fofeg101 said:


> Irish Tinkers should be deported back to Ireland.



Woah! Hang on there. If you want to debate your beliefs/prejudices then I suggest you go off to the Black Hole.

Keep on topic please, this thread is about someone wanting to use their land as a campsite for visiting wildcampers.


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## Tbear (Nov 4, 2012)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Woah! Hang on there. If you want to debate your beliefs/prejudices then I suggest you go off to the Black Hole.
> 
> Keep on topic please, this thread is about someone wanting to use their land as a campsite for visiting wildcampers.



Yes Marie I agree. I doubt Sean Rua will get much sympathy but thats over the top.

Richard


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## Kontiki (Nov 4, 2012)

Sorry about mentioning DF  in my post it wasn't meant as any really serious comment. Didn't mean to open any can of worms & agree that topic should be continued in the 'Black Hole'


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## kimbowbill (Nov 4, 2012)

fofeg101 said:


> Irish Tinkers should be deported back to Ireland.



What makes you want to say that? there's good and bad in every section of communities, please don't start a hate campaign for such groups, your comment is so unnecessary


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## Douzeper (Nov 4, 2012)

fofeg101 said:


> Irish Tinkers should be deported back to Ireland.



So the English tinkers that currently will not leave Tollymore Forest park in Northern Ireland should also be deported?


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## wildman (Nov 4, 2012)

ok most bases covered, any more than three vans constiutes a campsite and needs a licence. That could be issued by any one of over 22 exempt organisations to save you the planning hassle. motor caravanners club is the only one that allows non members to use their sites though. Bare in mind you will attract business rates as a campsite even if no bugger turns up. you can hold a rally there no problem Wild camping has an exemption certificate to cover that, it must be an official advertised rally to be covered though. you can't just claim its a rally because three vans turn up. Hope that helps.


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## Tbear (Nov 4, 2012)

Douzeper said:


> So the English tinkers that currently will not leave Tollymore Forest park in Northern Ireland should also be deported?



And this has to do what with the OP??

Richard


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## Deleted member 24143 (Nov 4, 2012)

*Stop,*

Can we please NOT kill this thread as it deals with the setting up of a small site that is a benefit to wild campers, so lets get back to helping CoolCamper try and achieve their goal.


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## wildman (Nov 4, 2012)

Kryten said:


> If it is for wild camping and people staying make a voluntary contribution for, let's say water, does this get around any regulations? Since CoolCamper is aiming the plot at wild campers they could say that people park on their land to which they have no objection.


not that simple the planners would then require change of use to a carpark as there is no automatic right to park on land you own. The old 28 day rule often quoted does not apply to camping at all. That said no planning permission is required for tents as far as I know.​


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## Douzeper (Nov 4, 2012)

CoolCamper said:


> I own 4.5 acres, stables and farmyard animals. It's a friendly atmosphere with great views. I have a spare hard car parking area and thought it would be great for camping, I have toilets and water facilities. The beach is just a mile up the road through a small village.
> 
> Do I need a licence for you guys to come on to my land and park up for the night/week?
> 
> ...



I have a CL licensed by MCC, if you need any advice just ask, but most of the details can be found here The Motor Caravanners' Club - Certificated Locations (CL's)

EDIT: better link here http://motorcaravanners.eu/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=88


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## John H (Nov 4, 2012)

wildman said:


> not that simple the planners would then require change of use to a carpark as there is no automatic right to park on land you own.​




This is true. There is a lot of confusion about living in caravans/motorhomes on your own property but basically, you are allowed to use a caravan/motorhome as an extension to your property if it is only temporary (which basically means the van has to be able to move) and as long as it is used as, say, a bedroom but NOT a self-contained unit (planning permision would then be required). Having said that, the authorities are usually very slack about enforcing the rules (many may not even know what they are!) so as long as you don't upset your neighbours or take it to extremes (three vans and they change every week for example!) there is a good chance that no-one will bother you. In all cases like that posted by the OP my first advice would be to consult the neighbours and get on their good side - even invite them to park their vans on your land if it is big enough).​


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## sean rua (Nov 4, 2012)

Yes, as I explained succinctly in my earlier reply, success with your objective depends largely on your standing within the local community AND/OR the critical mass of your bank balance.

If you are part and parcel of the local farming and landowning community, you should be fine, except for minor irritations like NT, greenbelt, preservation orders, local-by-laws etc.

If you are not, but have huge funds, eg tesco, oil-sheikhs, soccer-players, pop-stars, and those in the same economic bracket, you may meet with the usual hostility and resistance that faces most " blow-ins",
BUT, as your wealth is able to finance the best of the legal profession and, also, "open other barriers" and "oil the palms of the right sort of people",
you will, eventually ( and at a price) get what you want. 

Silly, isn't it, that something so simple should be so complex, but, hey, that's just the way things are!
Be lucky, get lucky!

all the best,

sean rua.
 ( via proxy)


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## Breedon (Nov 4, 2012)

I don't think it's true to say that, if you use C&CC you will have to limit yourself to their members.
All of their sites accept non-members. Members of these clubs obtain a discount on site fees for being members.


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## John H (Nov 4, 2012)

breedon1 said:


> I don't think it's true to say that, if you use C&CC you will have to limit yourself to their members.
> All of their sites accept non-members. Members of these clubs obtain a discount on site fees for being members.



Both the CC and the C&CC allow only members to use their 5-van sites. They both allow non-members to use some (but not all) of their main campsites. Here we are talking about 5-van CLs and CSs, so its members only, I'm afraid.


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 4, 2012)

The easiest thing to do is check the C&CC website link about becoming a CS (Certified Site).

Running your own campsite - The Camping and Caravanning Club

I've had a look at the Caravan Club CLs (Certified Locations - similar to CS).
A condition seems to be that you have to take Caravan Club members *only*. Also, you have to provide your own Public Liability Insurance.

You probably still have to provide your own insurance with the Caravan and Camping Club, but then their arrangements seem to be much looser than the Caravan Club so you have more flexibility? 

Also, Caravan Club affiliated CLs are not allowed to take tents.


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 4, 2012)

John H said:


> Both the CC and the C&CC allow only members to use their 5-van sites. They both allow non-members to use some (but not all) of their main campsites. Here we are talking about 5-van CLs and CSs, so its members only, I'm afraid.



I had been led to believe that the members only rule applied to the Caravan Club and not the Camping and Caravan Club?

I'm sure I stayed on a C&CC club site with a friend in their motorhome about 4 years ago, and they weren't a member of either club?


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## John H (Nov 4, 2012)

mariesnowgoose said:


> I had been led to believe that the members only rule applied to the Caravan Club and not the Camping and Caravan Club?
> 
> I'm sure I stayed on a C&CC club site with a friend in their motorhome about 4 years ago, and they weren't a member of either club?



As I said above, both Clubs allow non-members onto some of their main campsites (at a price!) but neither allows non-members onto their CLs/CSs. If you look up the C&CC website it is emblazoned all over the CS page, with the phrase "smaller sites, exclusive to members".


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## Douzeper (Nov 4, 2012)

MCC CL's allow non members and Caravans but no tents.


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 4, 2012)

Ta for that, John. That's cleared up my confusion!


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## Firefox (Nov 5, 2012)

In practice many CL's and CS's will let non members stay "on the quiet". If you can find the tel number and book up front, you may be OK. They are glad of the business.


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## John H (Nov 5, 2012)

Firefox said:


> In practice many CL's and CS's will let non members stay "on the quiet". If you can find the tel number and book up front, you may be OK. They are glad of the business.



That is true but remember, these small sites are inspected on a regular basis and if non-members are found on them they will have their licence taken away and therefore not be available for anyone to use at all.


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## Firefox (Nov 5, 2012)

This is over-played. How likely is is that an inspector will visit when a visitor is there. The chance is minuscule and in any case that is all at the risk of the site owner. In any case the site could get re-licensed by the MCC who I believe have fixed it so that one doesn't need to be a member of them to use their licenced sites (I could be wrong there though!) 

Then they will be available for everyone to use and we can all end this restrictive practice induced process of forking out £40 a year to a lot of different bodies.


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## John H (Nov 5, 2012)

Firefox said:


> This is over-played. How likely is is that an inspector will visit when a visitor is there. The chance is minuscule and in any case that is all at the risk of the site owner. In any case the site could get re-licensed by the MCC who I believe have fixed it so that one doesn't need to be a member of them to use their licenced sites (I could be wrong there though!)
> 
> Then they will be available for everyone to use and we can all end this restrictive practice induced process of forking out £40 a year to a lot of different bodies.



I totally agree with you about it being a nasty restrictive practice - and I believe you are right about MCC. However, we have been on CLs several times when inspections have taken place and we have been asked to show our membership cards, so the chances of closure are actually greater than you think. Further if you read the CL section in the CC's magazine, every month there are notices of closure against CLs for non-compliance. I have a few favourite CLs that I would hate to see closed. Having said that, you are also right that it is on the owner's head if he allows non-members.


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## John H (Nov 5, 2012)

Wrong! The members of the CC and C&CC pay for them through their annual subscription (and the excessive charges they pay if they are daft enough to use these club's main campsites!


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## Tbear (Nov 5, 2012)

John H said:


> As I said above, both Clubs allow non-members onto some of their main campsites (at a price!) but neither allows non-members onto their CLs/CSs. If you look up the C&CC website it is emblazoned all over the CS page, with the phrase "smaller sites, exclusive to members".



Hi John

You are completely correct but after saying that not all the sites stick as close to the rules as they perhaps should. Stick a tenner in there hand and they may not check your membership card. Naughty lot some of us campers

Richard


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## musicman (Nov 5, 2012)

*Lack of Sites on East Coast. (Lincolnshire)*

I think it would be great to have somewhere to park for the night or longer in this area.  I found it difficult to find some where in Cleethorpe as the two listed on this site were not available on arrival, (No Camping Signs plus gated) on one.  We stayed at the  campsite near the mini railway near pleasure island  £17 peak season £11 off peak. Did inform forum to remove sites in Cleethorpes. So can I wish you the best of luck and I agree the Camping and Caravan Club is the best, as I have been members of both and choose  the C & C Club.


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## John H (Nov 5, 2012)

Since these people are employed by the Clubs with one aim - to ensure that sites are sticking to the rules, it would be strange to expect them not to do their job! These "clubs" are actually big businesses and they presumably see it as protecting their assets. After all, if your business depended on subscription fees and then you allowed non-payers the same benefits as payers then you soon wouldn't have a business. This is not the public sector; it is the commercial one and I thought you were supposed to be a capitalist! :lol-053:


PS Please don't take the above to mean that I approve of the Clubs and their systems; I am simply describing the facts as they exist.


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## lotty (Nov 5, 2012)

I have stayed on many CL's with both clubs and most have never even asked me if I was a member let alone asked to see my card? 
Maybe they presume if you have their details you must be a member?


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## John H (Nov 5, 2012)

lotty said:


> I have stayed on many CL's with both clubs and most have never even asked me if I was a member let alone asked to see my card?
> Maybe they presume if you have their details you must be a member?



Ah, but big brother is watching. I have asked why CLs do not want to see my membership card and have been shown the computer screen with all my details on it! If they have your name and address they can instantly discover whether you are a member or not!


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## Caz (Nov 5, 2012)

Don't blame the Clubs, they don't make the rules - it is a legal requirement that anyone camping under their banner is a member and that is why they enforce the members only rule at sites licensed in their name - because that is what the Law requires and if they do not comply they could have their exempted camping licence taken away.

Then there would be no more CSs, CLs, temporary holiday sites, weekend rallies etc and we would all be worse off.

I have experienced some CS/CLs of both C & C C and Caravan Club who do not ask for proof of membership when taking bookings - and also many who do ask for membership number when booking and also ask to see membership card on arrival. The ones who take non-members are taking the risk of losing their status. They always have a sign up which states Members Only and I presume their defence would be that they thought anyone booking must be a member or they wouldn't know about the site - maybe that would have been true before the advent of the wonderful world wide web!


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## John H (Nov 5, 2012)

Kainene said:


> Don't blame the Clubs, they don't make the rules - it is a legal requirement that anyone camping under their banner is a member



But by all accounts the MCC sites leave the usage up to the individual licencees, so the law is probably not as tight as the clubs would have us believe - otherwise MCC would not be allowed to grant licences.


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## Firefox (Nov 5, 2012)

I've been asked for my membership number on the phone a couple of times. One time I gave it, the other time I just said I didn't have it with me. One time they asked for my card I just said sorry it was at home (which it was actually, as I never bothered to open the post for 4 months. I hate opening post unless I know someone is going to send me something which is why I give my best friends my work address, so it always gets to me). They still let me on the site. I mean who cares really... you just blag your way through it. You're a responsible camper and they get their site fees, so what is the big deal. If they didn't let me on, I just park up on the road outside their site, or if not suitable down the road somewhere if it does not cause an obstruction or it's not in anyone's face.

Also, if a Camping Club site inspector calls while you stay there's no need to show him your card. You don't even need to give your name or speak to them. You've the right to remain silent - they've no official status. The same as when the TV licence person or anyone else  (barring Police with a warrant) calls on your house. You don't have to say anything or show anything. If you want to be polite and say something, which is usually the best policy, just say sorry you've left your details and card at home. If he asks for name and address simply say sorry that is personal information which you don't care to divulge to just anyone.

For me, life is too short to worry about being a member of this or that, or paying out for stuff I don't need to.


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## John H (Nov 5, 2012)

Firefox said:


> I've been asked for my membership number on the phone a couple of times. One time I gave it, the other time I just said I didn't have it with me. One time they asked for my card I just said sorry it was at home (which it was actually, as I never bothered to open the post for 4 months. I hate opening post unless I know someone is going to send me something which is why I give my best friends my work address, so it always gets to me). They still let me on the site. I mean who cares really... you just blag your way through it. You're a responsible camper and they get their site fees, so what is the big deal. If they didn't let me on, I just park up on the road outside their site, or if not suitable down the road somewhere if it does not cause an obstruction or it's not in anyone's face.
> 
> Also, if a Camping Club site inspector calls while you stay there's no need to show him your card. You don't even need to give your name or speak to them. You've the right to remain silent - they've no official status. The same as when the TV licence person or anyone else  (barring Police with a warrant) calls on your house. You don't have to say anything or show anything. If you want to be polite and say something, which is usually the best policy, just say sorry you've left your details and card at home. If he asks for name and address simply say sorry that is personal information which you don't care to divulge to just anyone.
> 
> For me, life is too short to worry about being a member of this or that, or paying out for stuff I don't need to.



I tend to agree with you but the thing that worries me is that I don't want some of my favourite CLs to lose their licences (regardless of how "accommodating" the owners may be to non-members) and as I said above I have personal experience of sites being checked ( and most people will not have your attitude to authority figures). The fact that there are several CLs per month who lose their licences shows that it happens.


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## leewilliam (Nov 5, 2012)

*The law is an ass*

I think there are many people missing the point here. You are innocent until proven guilty. The chances of the council coming at you for this one are a million to one, unless you live next to your local MP. A few friends at the weekend. Anyway, at the time in question, did you realize there was someone on your field?????? 

'' I'll ask them to leave, cheeky buggers get every where''

Lee


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## Firefox (Nov 5, 2012)

@ John It happens I guess, but we could tell them to re-register with the MCC.

Then the CC and C and CC would have to start rethinking their policy because they would be eroding their lists of 5 van sites and the MCC would be increasing theirs.

@ Lee  That's the practical approach which will work a lot of the time. I guess we are trying to say what the law actually is so OP can form a judgement. Neighbours with more time on their hands than they know what to do with have been known to take photographs with times and dates and registrations so that they can submit a file to the council to prove someone is staying more than 28 days a year for example.


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## Debroos (Nov 6, 2012)

mariesnowgoose said:


> The easiest thing to do is check the C&CC website link about becoming a CS (Certified Site).
> 
> Running your own campsite - The Camping and Caravanning Club
> 
> ...




We recently stayed at a new CL that was with the CC and the owner told us they'd had to jump through loads of unneccesary hoops in order to get registered....


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## wildcamp (Nov 9, 2012)

Thought I'd bump this for the Aires thread.  BTW how do you pronounce Aires?


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## wildcamp (Nov 9, 2012)

[No message]


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## mrjrstephenson (Nov 9, 2012)

*Brockwell woods has wild camping with numbered areas -1 group per area - fantastic*

They allow campfires using fallen forest wood

Brockwell Wood

Reviews of Brockwell Wood , Blaydon On Tyne, Tyne and Wear Campsite


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## wildman (Nov 10, 2012)

John H said:


> But by all accounts the MCC sites leave the usage up to the individual licensees, so the law is probably not as tight as the clubs would have us believe - otherwise MCC would not be allowed to grant licenses.


the MCC is the ONLY club that allows non members to use their CL's. It is no longer possible for new exemption licenses to be granted by Natural England to any but member only clubs. It is a rule made by Natural England not the clubs themselves. Before the MCC did it no one else had and there was no specific rule in place to prevent it. There is now.
You will find that site allowing non members in have a campsite license issued by the local authority and are not necessarily restricted to 5 VANS. My own CL is licenced by Motor roamers who do not charge a membership fee so visitors can join at the gate.


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## John H (Nov 10, 2012)

wildman said:


> the MCC is the ONLY club that allows non members to use their CL's. It is no longer possible for new exemption licenses to be granted by Natural England to any but member only clubs. It is a rule made by Natural England not the clubs themselves. Before the MCC did it no one else had and there was no specific rule in place to prevent it. There is now.
> You will find that site allowing non members in have a campsite license issued by the local authority and are not necessarily restricted to 5 VANS. My own CL is licenced by Motor roamers who do not charge a membership fee so visitors can join at the gate.



Thanks for that. Does it mean that if all CLs were to transfer to MCC they would also be exempt from the rule or does it apply only to sites that are currently in MCC?


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## mariesnowgoose (Nov 10, 2012)

mrjrstephenson said:


> They allow campfires using fallen forest wood
> 
> Brockwell Wood
> 
> Reviews of Brockwell Wood , Blaydon On Tyne, Tyne and Wear Campsite




That's right next to where I was born (Winlaton)! I used to walk in Brockwell Woods with my dad when I was very small.
He used to have a smallholding called the Letch which belonged to some friends who lived at Norman's Riding Farm (still do).

Small world  

Never knew this facility had been created though.


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## Tbear (Nov 10, 2012)

motorroamers

Sorry did not make it clear thats a link


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## AndyC (Nov 10, 2012)

wildman said:


> the MCC is the ONLY club that allows non members to use their CL's. It is no longer possible for new exemption licenses to be granted by Natural England to any but member only clubs. It is a rule made by Natural England not the clubs themselves. Before the MCC did it no one else had and there was no specific rule in place to prevent it. There is now.



Have you got a reference for this from Natural England? The FAQ in their guidance notes still states that non-members may also use 'Paragraph 5' sites unless there is an agreement between the site owner and the organisation that restricts use to members only.

AndyC


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