# Petition to legalise wild camping



## Gayle (Aug 28, 2014)

LEGALISE WILD CAMPING IN THE UK - e-petitions

If anyone fancies signing it.


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## runnach (Aug 28, 2014)

A poorly worded plea. Most people on this forum are responsible yet the letter suggests the majority of wilders arent ...bit self defeating.

The argument of educating children is flawed, most wildcampers here appear to be "empty nesters" you could also argue that a relaxation of laws would have a short term detriment whilst people become educated. 

Sorry but I wont be signing

Channa


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## Tezza (Aug 28, 2014)

done


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## gipsy_jo (Aug 28, 2014)

Done :wave:


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## Deleted member 27306 (Aug 28, 2014)

Done


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## bluejet (Aug 28, 2014)

Done


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## maureenandtom (Aug 28, 2014)

Done


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## Kath (Aug 28, 2014)

Sorry, I'm in the 'Channa Camp' on this one.


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## Obanboy666 (Aug 28, 2014)

Done.


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## mariesnowgoose (Aug 29, 2014)

I'm with Channa. 

Unfortunately the petition is lacking in meaningful content and poorly constructed; I very much doubt it will achieve anything.


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## Wooie1958 (Aug 29, 2014)

For once i have to agree with Channa.


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## DTDog (Aug 29, 2014)

*Confused !!*

Firstly, I didn't think it was 'illegal' and so why the need for a petition to legalise it?

Then, reading the petition it says 
"..........As a result, when people do ignore the current law & wild camp, they have no concept of what to do & often leave large amounts of mess / litter......".

So, if I read this correct, people will only be responsible and not leave a mess, once it is 'legal'?
No, I won't be signing it!


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## TWS (Aug 29, 2014)

It may not achieve it's objective but it takes minutes to sign so what harm can it do to pop a sig on the petition ? Signed & best wishes with the petition.


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## antiquesam (Aug 29, 2014)

I'm afraid it seems to be saying wildcampers break the law and leave a mess. How does that support our argument?


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## Robmac (Aug 29, 2014)

"As a result, when people do ignore the current law & wild camp, they have no concept of what to do & often leave large amounts of mess / litter."

I am afraid that this makes us sound like we are complete idiots who are littering out of spite. Nobody needs educating to know not to leave litter, it is basic common sense let alone common courtesy, let alone obeying the law! 

I am sure that the intentions are good on this petition, but it needs re-writing.


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## n brown (Aug 29, 2014)

let sleeping dogs lie
not to mention
be careful what you wish for
i can see a future where this whole wildcamping lark is controlled by petty officials fining people for staying an hour over time or not carrying the regulation amount of water or wearing a red jumper on a wednesday
why would anyone want more laws !


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## Siimplyloco (Aug 29, 2014)

Agreed. Structure and content will not impress those in a position to do anything about it!
John


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## maureenandtom (Aug 29, 2014)

Because almost day by day, certainly month by month, we are facing more and more restrictions  - though his petition has not been begun by motorhomers - but rather by those wild campers with a bivvy bag or a tent. 

This petition may do no good - at worst it will be ignored;  it wil not cause further restrictions;   it will definitely do no harm.

Except, maybe,  to hurt the feelings of those who say, "I feel this insults me."  Poor boys.  Persecution never ends;  bullies never stop;  they have to have a stop put to them.

There are people here who would have found reason not to support the Suffragettes, the Kinder Scout Trespassers, the CB demonstrators, the Poll Tax protesters;  the fuel protests;  the list is endless.  There are people here who would never appeal a parking ticket, dispute a parking sign or a height barrier,  for fear it angers a council or do more harm than good.

I have signed this petition.

To those who feel it should be better written or better thought out or .... well, please draft your own.  I will be pleased to sign yours too.

Tom


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## Robmac (Aug 29, 2014)

maureenandtom said:


> ........................Except, maybe,  to hurt the feelings of those who say, "I feel this insults me."  Poor boys.  Persecution never ends;  bullies never stop;  they have to have a stop put to them.
> 
> There are people here who would have found reason not to support the Suffragettes, the Kinder Scout Trespassers, the CB demonstrators, the Poll Tax protesters;  the fuel protests;  the list is endless.  There are people here who would never appeal a parking ticket, dispute a parking sign or a height barrier,  for fear it angers a council or do more harm than good.
> 
> ...



A little bit strong Tom! Constructive criticism isn't really bullying?


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## maureenandtom (Aug 29, 2014)

_"I can assure you that if I was in a position of power I would ignore the petition as it stands because it lacks the gravitas and credibility it needs to be persuasive."_

No, you wouldn't.   If it was signed by enough people - you'd not ignore it.  You might dispute it, argue against it, but you'd not ignore it.

_"The French wouldn't bother with a petition: they would take direct action to show what they think. A large number of motorhomes led by 4 tonners driving at the legal limit in both lanes on dual carriageways would be effective on a Friday evening. That's how French motor bikers and farmers do it! "_

Now you're talking my language.  But, unfortunately, here, we'd not get the large numbers of motorhomes to take direct action - though I'm heartened by the direct action of those in N Yorks or Lincs.  There's plenty who don't support those either.

So we're stuck with petitions as a possible weapon.  

I'm beginning to believe the saying I've known for years - "_If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."_


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## groyne (Aug 29, 2014)

> Firstly, I didn't think it was 'illegal' and so why the need for a petition to legalise it?



My sentiments exactly, they just give substance to the lie that we are breaking the law.

Now a properly organised campaign to rid the country of "advisory no overnight sleeping and cooking etc" signs would get my support.


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## runnach (Aug 29, 2014)

[No message]


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## maureenandtom (Aug 29, 2014)

groyne said:


> My sentiments exactly, they just give substance to the lie that we are breaking the law.
> 
> *Now a properly organised campaign to rid the country of "advisory no overnight sleeping and cooking etc" signs would get my support*.



Mine too.   And there is such a campaign which has had its successes.  In fact, despite many of us who oppose it, it has so far had no failures. Hard won successes despite lack of support from many with much to gain.

As regards this present petition.  

We're forgetting that this is not about motorhomers.  It is a petition by those, and for those, who wildcamp and who would see us as nothing like wildcampers.   Glorified caravanners - wimps who can't do without the comforts of home - who can't do without their cooked meals and television and hot showers.  This petition is for the real men who want to get out and meet nature head on.  (Women too - for I'm an equal opportunities real man.)

If this petition is successful;  if we get a law like that in Scotland or in the tradition of the Kinder Scouts then we motorhomers will be unexpected beneficiaries - unexpected by those campaigning!!

Support them.   Maybe we will gain support for our own aims.


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## groyne (Aug 29, 2014)

> It is a petition by those, and for those, who wildcamp and who would see us as nothing like wildcampers. Glorified caravanners - wimps who can't do without the comforts of home - who can't do without their cooked meals and television and hot showers. This petition is for the real men who want to get out and meet nature head on. (Women too - for I'm an equal opportunities real man.)



You really know how to sell it.:raofl:
I'm sure real men don't need us wimps to help them fight their battles. Anyway real men wouldn't organise poorly thought out online petitions.


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## Tezza (Aug 29, 2014)

So the person who cant read properly or might struggle with comprehension must argue the point and cant start a petition because he has no formal qualifications....wow...so far up yourself. he has the same rights as you who think your better. Whoever started this had the nerve to try and do something . Wether you agree with what he is saying or not...at least he's trying...not sat at his pc complaining on a forum or bragging how good his english . And the powers that be as you say............ have a duty to every individual in this country....if they are eton educated or tower hamlets comp. you are no better...i keep telling you that.you might have the good english...but everybody has the same rights.


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## caledonia (Aug 29, 2014)

In Scotland where we have the right to roam and wildcamp, it's the tenters that create a lot of the mess because they have no toilet facilities on board. I don't mind litter picking when I arrive at a wild spot but the big problem is human waste.


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## Tezza (Aug 29, 2014)

Whats more...this is not intended for motorhomers or campers...but for tenting ...in groups.So now read it again and it is very clear and quite well written if you know who the petitioner is talking about.


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## maureenandtom (Aug 29, 2014)

This bit particularly:



Tezza said:


> ...
> 
> Whoever started this had the nerve to try and do something . Wether you agree with what he is saying or not...at least he's trying...not sat at his pc complaining
> 
> ...



Thank you.   Not everyone needs to be an activist but we can all provide support.


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## Steve121 (Aug 29, 2014)

*Kinder Mass Trespass*

We can do things the 'French' way here in England. The Kinder Mass Trespass of 1932 directly resulted in a change of legislation.


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## DumnoniiNomad (Aug 29, 2014)

*NOT our argument*

I agree with Tezza's last comment. This is about tents, not campers and motorhomes. I gave up tents when finances allowed me to buy a motorhome. No intentions of reverting!!
I think we should keep our heads low on this, before the fun police spot us having a good time!


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## wildman (Aug 29, 2014)

Well it is not Illegal to wild camp now why change it? It is only illegal to wild camp in groups of 3 or more vans as that constitutes a campsite which requires a licence  or exemption certificate of some sort. You can wild camp anywhere on your own with the landowners permission. If you want to legalise it to wildcamp anywhere then I guess your front garden will do fine I'll be there tomorrow for six months, cheers. Hee hee.
This petition has been written by someone who does not have a clue about the subject and has done no research. It is poorly worded to show wild campers in a bad light no matter what the intention.  I most certainly shall not be signing it.


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## maureenandtom (Aug 29, 2014)

My view is that it is worth signing.   I guess that the petitioner, when drafting it, had no inkling that motorhomers might be interested in what he was doing.  If he's aware of this thread now, I think he'll be highly and justifiably amused.

Sometimes these campaigns are related.  We're all a bit exercised by Huttoft right now and we think it's only motorhomers involved.   But, you know, it isn't just us.   The fishing campaigners there, won with motorhomers' suppot a major concession and, maybe, those same fishermen will support us.   

This petition might open a crack in a door so far closed.  Once the door is cracked a little, it may be opened entirely.  I've signed the petition, I'd like to see all of us support it.


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## Louise (Aug 29, 2014)

Just a thought....... has anyone been arrested for wild camping? (Other than that of gypsy/travellers/potters, whatever term you want to use!)

Sorry if my spelling, grammar and punctuation is wrong!


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## Tezza (Aug 29, 2014)

Go away with you condescending attitude david...told you before ...you are no better than me or the 17 year old on the social...you might like to think so....but stood in a line naked...your just the same...a human being....no more ...no less....deal with it.


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## Tezza (Aug 29, 2014)

Just a bit fed up with your arrogance towards people who might not be as educated as you are...like i said..you might have a better education...but it doesnt make you a better person. Overgrown... edit ...grown up boy scout?????? Shame a lot of our youngster didnt join the cubs and scouts....it installs  good ethics int young people. Sadly something missing today and maybe a lot further back by the looks of it. . He is just a man doing his best to achieve what he thinks is needed. No need to knock his education or writing style. If you did that to most people on the forum ...there more than likely only be you left. Its not big and its not hard to knock people for trying to do their best.


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## Tezza (Aug 29, 2014)

Well im glad we agree on the boy scout thing. Where we dont agree is where somebody is doing his best...maybe his utmost to do something right...and not for himself....for others. Then praise should be given. Nobody can do more than their best. That is all you can ask of anybody.And your command of the english language is good David...so you could critique (?) in a much more sensitive way than most on here. I dont think the originator of the petition is a member but that doesnt mean we can just criticise so strongly. There are ways to say things nicely or downright rudely and you David have the skills to do either way.


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## Shockingdog (Aug 29, 2014)

Gayle said:


> LEGALISE WILD CAMPING IN THE UK - e-petitions
> 
> If anyone fancies signing it.



Done


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## Siimplyloco (Aug 29, 2014)

Louise said:


> Just a thought....... has anyone been arrested for wild camping? (Other than that of gypsy/travellers/potters, whatever term you want to use!)
> 
> Sorry if my spelling, grammar and punctuation is wrong!



There's nothing wrong with it, so why apologise? Our David is wound up enough already!:lol-053:
John


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## Talbot (Aug 29, 2014)

I'm reading all this tickle tackle from many members on this forum but I don't think any one has fully grasped the point. As already pointed out, this is absolutely nothing to do with camping cars and Motorhomes, but more to do with future education of our children and how to preserve the planet for future generations. While our generation continues to dessimate the planet it is our children or grandchildren that will pick up the pieces. This executive scout leader is raising a major issue and one that we should all support. As a life long supporter of the scout movement I have forwarded the links to old Boy Scouts, recent scouts, and scout leaders to rally up support for this case. If everyone on this forum just sent the link to one person this will increase the success of his case. This is a good cause for the future of humanity and vital that the young are educated on the planet, the environment and nature. We are living in an age where most children merely live behind a computer screen and don't even know where milk came from. I'm 100% behind his campaign and urge fellow readers to understand the difference between camping/tenting in the wilderness versus parking a motorhome in a layby. Huge difference.


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## Siimplyloco (Aug 29, 2014)

Talbot said:


> SNIP
> I'm reading all this tickle tackle from many members on this forum but I don't think any one has fully grasped the point.



Correct. I didn't grasp the point because the petition didn't make the desired point clear......
John


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## 1977paul (Aug 29, 2014)

*Agree but.....*

Whilst I agree completely with the sentiment, it does indeed imply that wild campers do leave mess etc behind, something that I & would hope all wildcampers do not do. Can the petition be re- worded to avoid the self defeating message it currently gives? If so I will sign up to it.
:cheers:


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## stonedaddy (Aug 29, 2014)

*Done*

I signed because being an ex cub, ex scout, ex tenter, and now an old camper vanner with limited grammar skills, because anyone who puts themselves out to help others should be supported. If people think they can help the cause with much better wording I am sure they would appreciate it. I think any petition to make wilding more acceptable is a good petition. It may start with tents but what's good for the goose is good for the gander and will progress up to motor homers where we all benefit. There might be no law against wilding at the moment, but more restrictions creep in every week. Just try to nip it in the bud before we can't stop anywhere.
.... Tom ....


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## Deleted member 967 (Aug 30, 2014)

This petition relates to TENT wild camping.
That is a similar position to the Freedom to Roam Legislation in Scotland. Camping in a tent more than 75 meters from any residence or a highway. 

Wild Parking in a Motorhome is not covered by that legislation. 

The rule when wild camping has always been to take your litter with you or bury it.   As it stands camping is permitted on any land with the owners permission up to 28 days. 42 days if the camping group holds a camping exemption issued by DEFRA (Natural England) under The Public Health Act 1937.  

 Special arrangements have to be made for National Parks and campers intending to use land within the park have to receive consent from the National Park Authority as well as the landowner. 

This application has to be made to the NPA by May in the year prior to the year the camp is to take place. Caravanning in a National Park has similar limitations on notification. 

Currently England and Wales has Freedom of Access legislation but that does not include a right to camp.


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## andromeda (Aug 30, 2014)

*Grammar and gravitas*

It's not the first time that I have noticed an air of superiority on here from those who obviously consider themselves better educated than some contributors.  I would like to see the statistical evidence that demonstrates the point made about successful campaigns.  Many changes for the better in our world have I believe been started at the grassroots and once momentum is achieved they have been hijacked by articulate beings who then may take the credit. Sometimes it would be better to offer comments in a construcive and positive manner instead denigrating those who have the courage to try and change things for the better.


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## TWS (Aug 30, 2014)

Well said ! Too many sheep I feel who tend to follow the loudest voices on occasions. Like I said what harm would be done by supporting & signing the petition ?


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## Siimplyloco (Aug 31, 2014)

andromeda said:


> It's not the first time that I have noticed an air of superiority on here from those who obviously consider themselves better educated than some contributors. SNIP



There is nothing superior about expressing thoughts and opinions in a clear and concise manner, especially in our modern world where that ability is disappearing into the distant past!
John


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## andromeda (Aug 31, 2014)

*Right brain versus left brain*



siimplyloco said:


> There is nothing superior about expressing thoughts and opinions in a clear and concise manner, especially in our modern world where that ability is disappearing into the distant past!
> John



Where would we be without those whose brains benefited most from the traditional teaching methods that did not recognise that we may learn differently and therfore need different approaces in teaching!  Reading and writing skills come more easily to some than others; just as creativity comes  to others.  Levels of literacy are not neccessarily an indicator of intellegence or courage and to continue to belittle those who have a different skill set to ourselves says much about the person doing the belittling.fftopic:


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## andromeda (Aug 31, 2014)

*Cage rattled*

Oh dear you are missing the point of my irritation aren't you.  My point was not about whether things should be done correctly or not: of course they should.  My point was about the superiority of people who have different skill sets who denigrate those who are doing their best and at least have the courage to try.  If it is such an issue for you why don't you offer your skills, real or imagined, to the people concerned.  This done in a constructive manner could benefit all.  We can all rant, like I am at present with you, not many of us do much about the things that need addressing.  Good luck with your campaign. Enough from me.


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## Robmac (Aug 31, 2014)

andromeda said:


> Oh dear you are missing the point of my irritation aren't you.  My point was not about whether things should be done correctly or not: of course they should.  My point was about the superiority of people who have different skill sets who denigrate those who are doing their best and at least have the courage to try.  If it is such an issue for you why don't you offer your skills, real or imagined, to the people concerned.  This done in a constructive manner could benefit all.  We can all rant, like I am at present with you, not many of us do much about the things that need addressing.  Good luck with your campaign. Enough from me.



With respect. Some of us question whether some things really need addressing.


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## angelaa (Aug 31, 2014)

Done


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## wildman (Sep 1, 2014)

This thread has denigrated into a free for all regarding education and the perceived right of the better educated to correct those who make mistakes. There is not really a place for this in any forum as it alienates users who may well be aware of their lack of education but not like it being pointed out. It is not a forum for the improvement of the use of the English language it is a motorhome forum and as long as one can understand the meaning of a post then who gives sh1t how the meaning is conveyed. I had a good education but still make mistakes, some are simple typos, others caused by bad memory or old age in general. We all start out unable to read/write or understand anything apart from sustenance. An awful lot of us end our lives in the same state. In between we do our best and tis not for anyone to criticize. Some type in dialect at 100 words a min and others in utter tripe at 5 words a min but assuming the content can be understood what difference does it make. It is only when the wrong words are used that I have a problem as the different meaning is sometimes quite funny. Do I ignore, correct, or try to work out what is intended. Either way I will be wrong so usually best ignored.
However if any one has a 4 Birth motorhome and no space left to house the offspring please send me one.


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 1, 2014)

You left something out......
John


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## wildman (Sep 1, 2014)

denigrated - definition of denigrated by The Free Dictionary
I'm not sure why you decided to correct your perceived notion of my incorrect use of the word denigrated. Whilst the comment on the  grammar in the petition does not affect those posting arguing the rights and wrongs such  perceived illiteracy is not what a motorhome forum should be about.
My comments were not addressed to you personally but to those who feel the need to constantly correct anothers usage of the language. On a forum however it is usually a gut reaction and rapidly typed response.


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## Byronic (Sep 1, 2014)

siimplyloco said:


> There is nothing superior about expressing thoughts and opinions in a clear and concise manner, especially in our modern world where that ability is disappearing into the distant past!
> John



Cannot argue with that. However is it not another matter pointing out such deficiencies in others on a public forum?

Perfect grammar combined with useful information is the ideal of course. However given that some posts are grammatically perfect and have bugger all to say, and conversely that some posts are somewhat grammatically challenged but have something useful to say, I think I prefer the latter of these 2 options..
.


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 1, 2014)

Byronic said:


> Cannot argue with that. However is it not another matter pointing out such deficiencies in others on a public forum?
> 
> Perfect grammar combined with useful information is the ideal of course. However given that some posts are grammatically perfect and have bugger all to say, and conversely that some posts are somewhat grammatically challenged but have something useful to say, I think prefer the latter of these 2 options..
> .



I agree with you on the hot air syndrome. I don't recall deliberately pointing out deficiencies in other posters' contributions, but if a grammatical or spelling error could mislead a respondent then perhaps it should be made known (nicely!).
John


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## n brown (Sep 1, 2014)

i'm surprised the word ' denigrate ' is allowed ,when i can't write 'snigger'
blimey- last couple of times it wasn't allowed !


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## winks (Sep 1, 2014)

*Simplyloco*

You left something out......
John

See me in my study boy. Only three dots for an ellipsis...:sleep-040:


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## andromeda (Sep 1, 2014)

*Pot calling kettle black*

This is my last comment on this.  Please re-read what you have written: you will not let the subject go so who is the one who cannot take critisism?  One thing that I have learnt as I get older is that I still have so much to learn and will have even if I reach a hundred.  Can you say the same about yourself?  

Is it not time to put this to bed?  We seem to have drifted so far off the original point that we are in danger of missing it altogether.  Perhaps we will meet one day and hammer the finer points then


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 1, 2014)

winks said:


> You left something out......
> John
> 
> See me in my study boy. Only three dots for an ellipsis...:sleep-040:



Not a lot of people know that...


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## snowbirds (Sep 1, 2014)

Hi Gayle,

Last time i signed up on here for one of these on here my Email was filled with more of the same for months after.

Snowbirds.






Gayle said:


> LEGALISE WILD CAMPING IN THE UK - e-petitions
> 
> If anyone fancies signing it.


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## Byronic (Sep 1, 2014)

andromeda said:


> Perhaps we will meet one day and hammer the finer points then



Is this a euphemism for a good old punch up! If so, please give the forum plenty of notice should the day arrive. I for one will do my best to attend


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## northernspirit2001 (Sep 1, 2014)

*Really?*

Is legalising wild camping what you really want? Think about what you enjoy and why you enjoy it.....then suppose how it will change with the thousands of site types parked with you


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## Deleted member 967 (Sep 2, 2014)

northernspirit2001 said:


> Is legalising wild camping what you really want? Think about what you enjoy and why you enjoy it.....then suppose how it will change with the thousands of site types parked with you



The petition is about being able to *camp in a tent *in areas where it is permitted to roam as the Right to Roam Act in Scotland permits.  Scotland and the rest of the UK has different legislation on this practice.  ie. tent camping 75m or more from any road or residence.

It is not about *Wild Parking in Motorhomes *as practiced by members on this forum.   Wild Parking in Motorhomes is not permitted by the Scottish Act unlike tent camping.  

Our National Parks require groups to obtain permission from the Park Authority to camp or park caravans in a national park.  That has to be applied for by May of the year before the activity takes place.   My understanding is that the petition writer is referring to this limitation so that groups can go out and enjoy tent camping with out this formality. 

Do not please get this petition mixed up with the wild parking practiced here.


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## Gayle (Sep 5, 2014)

snowbirds said:


> Hi Gayle,
> 
> Last time i signed up on here for one of these on here my Email was filled with more of the same for months after.
> 
> Snowbirds.



Very likely. Everyone seems to be making money from selling our personal info these days. I delete most things without even opening them to be honest.


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## 271 (Sep 6, 2014)

How can you legalise something that is not illegal?  (And why is the spell-check set for American English not English English?)


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