# Smart Car for Towing Behind Motorhome



## Deleted member 967

Does anyone tow a Smart car behind their motorhome?

I am looking at doing so but need to know more about the Law abroard!!

I understand from snippets that there are problems in Spain.

How does the fixed bar operate the car brakes?  I know I can buy a trailer but it's another bit of junk on a campsite to fit into the pitch.


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## merlin wanderer

*car towing*



			
				John Thompson said:
			
		

> Does anyone tow a Smart car behind their motorhome?
> 
> I am looking at doing so but need to know more about the Law abroard!!
> 
> I understand from snippets that there are problems in Spain.
> 
> How does the fixed bar operate the car brakes?  I know I can buy a trailer but it's another bit of junk on a campsite to fit into the pitch.


 I believe in france bar/frame towing is not permitted
cars have to be on a braked trailer


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## walkers

merlin wanderer said:
			
		

> I believe in france bar/frame towing is not permitted
> cars have to be on a braked trailer


spain too they do apparentl prosecute, it is also a dodgy area in the uk check direct.gov.uk as i think you can only tow using an a frame ' to move a broken down vehicle to a place of safety' i may be wrong on my interpretation of this


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## walkers

*towitall website*

There are strict regulations on braked trailers and, whilst a braked ‘A’ frame attached to a towed car constitutes a braked trailer, it is not legal for transportation as it cannot comply with EC71/320. With car dollies, the situation is somewhat different. Under regulation 83 of the Road Vehicles (construction & Use) Regulations 1986 (SI.1986/1078) Amending Regulations, a car dolly, with a car in place, will be considered as two trailers. This is legal for recovery but, under the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 (Schedule 6) the combination is limited to 40 mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 20 mph elsewhere http://www.towitall.co.uk/trailer_law/law.htm


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## Admin

Smart Cars are one of my specialist subjects! (I also run www.smartmania.co.uk)

They make special transporter trailers for smart cars and they are the best way of transporting them. Because Smart cars are rear engined the axle on the trailer has to be moved backwards so that you have the correct tow point weight, try http://www.bantamtrailers.co.uk/. Smart cars have tiptronic gearboxes and there are guidlines about how far and at what speed you can tow them without damage.


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## Deleted member 967

walkers said:
			
		

> There are strict regulations on braked trailers and, whilst a braked ‘A’ frame attached to a towed car constitutes a braked trailer, it is not legal for transportation as it cannot comply with EC71/320. With car dollies, the situation is somewhat different. Under regulation 83 of the Road Vehicles (construction & Use) Regulations 1986 (SI.1986/1078) Amending Regulations, a car dolly, with a car in place, will be considered as two trailers. This is legal for recovery but, under the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 (Schedule 6) the combination is limited to 40 mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 20 mph elsewhere http://www.towitall.co.uk/trailer_law/law.htm




Thank you for your help.  It has cleared the situation up for me.  I wondered if a braked frame would be legal, as I have seen them advertised on ebaY and on the road in the UK.  I understand that they are legal abroard for 4 wheel Autocycles ie very small light cars which can be driven on a motorcycle licence


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## Deleted member 967

admin said:
			
		

> Smart Cars are one of my specialist subjects! (I also run www.smartmania.co.uk)
> 
> They make special transporter trailers for smart cars and they are the best way of transporting them. Because Smart cars are rear engined the axle on the trailer has to be moved backwards so that you have the correct tow point weight, try http://www.bantamtrailers.co.uk/. Smart cars have tiptronic gearboxes and there are guidlines about how far and at what speed you can tow them without damage.



Thank you for your help.  It has cleared the situation up for me.  I wondered if a braked frame would be legal, as I have seen them advertised on ebaY and on the road in the UK.  I understand that they are legal abroard for 4 wheel Autocycles ie very small light cars which can be driven on a motorcycle licence.

I have seen Smarts on trailers and just needed to sort things out in my mind before deciding which way to go.

I transport a Classic Bike  (1961 Norton Jubilee) at present on the motorhome but I am now getting a bit old for serious biking


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## walkers

John Thompson said:
			
		

> Thank you for your help.  It has cleared the situation up for me.  I wondered if a braked frame would be legal, as I have seen them advertised on ebaY and on the road in the UK.  I understand that they are legal abroard for 4 wheel Autocycles ie very small light cars which can be driven on a motorcycle licence


you are welcome i wouldn't have wanted you to find out the hard way good luck with getting a trailer and enjoy europe


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## voxol51

As Admin stated above, Smarts (and some other cars) can be seriously damaged by speed/distance towing.
Whatever the 'greyness' of A framing, if you settle for a Smart, you should definately trailer it. Mechanical damage caused by towing is not covered under warranty.

Voxy


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## walkers

John Thompson said:
			
		

> Does anyone tow a Smart car behind their motorhome?
> 
> I am looking at doing so but need to know more about the Law abroard!!
> 
> I understand from snippets that there are problems in Spain.
> 
> How does the fixed bar operate the car brakes?  I know I can buy a trailer but it's another bit of junk on a campsite to fit into the pitch.


perhaps not for the smart car as it could damage the transmission but maybe other cars within your towing capacity maybe this would be of interest http://www.towingframes.com/index.htm


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## Nosha

*Trailers*

John,
If it's of use to you I work next to Brian James Trailers of Daventry a couple of days a week, and they often have motorhomes in collecting allsorts of trailers inc' a couple of small trailers with Smart cars on.


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## Nosha

I must admit if you need to tow a car and trailer and spare wheels and be limited to 56MPH you may as become a caravaner! Or am I missing something??

We used to carry a scooter on the Winne' and now carry a tandem on the M/H, and don't really miss the scooter; afterall if you can't get to the pub, papershop or supermarket in 10mins on a bike... you've parked in the wrong place!!


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## Guest

*Spot on*



			
				Nosha said:
			
		

> I must admit if you need to tow a car and trailer and spare wheels and be limited to 56MPH you may as become a caravaner! Or am I missing something??
> 
> We used to carry a scooter on the Winne' and now carry a tandem on the M/H, and don't really miss the scooter; afterall if you can't get to the pub, papershop or supermarket in 10mins on a bike... you've parked in the wrong place!!


Nosha, Exactly my sentiments, could not agree more!


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## Guest

*Sometimes*

I must admit, that sometimes I do get tempted to buy a Honda Scooter (big wheels & 125cc) but for every good reason, I can usually find 2 bad reasons.
Extra tax, insurance and when older MOT.
I might one day but a lot of money for the very few times I would use it.
I also keep on about buying a Sat Nav, but the only reason I want one is for finding French Aires as this year I will be going to France in very high season & will probably struggle to find suitable Municipal campsites & aires with spaces. The Sat Nav would just give more Aires as I can pre load them.
Never need d one before and quite happy with maps for getting from A to B.
Just have to wait and see, still pondering!


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## pappajohn

walkers said:
			
		

> There are strict regulations on braked trailers and, whilst a braked ‘A’ frame attached to a towed car constitutes a braked trailer, it is not legal for transportation as it cannot comply with EC71/320. With car dollies, the situation is somewhat different. Under regulation 83 of the Road Vehicles (construction & Use) Regulations 1986 (SI.1986/1078) Amending Regulations, a car dolly, with a car in place, will be considered as two trailers. This is legal for recovery but, under the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 (Schedule 6) the combination is limited to 40 mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 20 mph elsewhere http://www.towitall.co.uk/trailer_law/law.htm



just found this thread. 
for the purposes of the road traffic act this would be classed as a locomotive and as stated would be speed restricted. john.


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## Guest

*Wash my mouth out*



			
				Nosha said:
			
		

> I must admit if you need to tow a car and trailer and spare wheels and be limited to 56MPH you may as become a caravaner! Or am I missing something??
> 
> We used to carry a scooter on the Winne' and now carry a tandem on the M/H, and don't really miss the scooter; afterall if you can't get to the pub, papershop or supermarket in 10mins on a bike... you've parked in the wrong place!!


As Nosha said.
You might as well buy a (wash my mouth out & do 500 lines) a caravan!


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## walkers

***** said:
			
		

> As Nosha said.
> You might as well buy a (wash my mouth out & do 500 lines) a caravan!


i think either here or somewhere else towing a car on a trailer or otherwise has been referred to as caravaning in reverse actually i just remembered where mmm magazine i suppose it is really but i tow a trailer when away for more than a couople of days to keep the van less cluttered


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## Guest

*Trailer*



			
				walkers said:
			
		

> i think either here or somewhere else towing a car on a trailer or otherwise has been referred to as caravaning in reverse actually i just remembered where mmm magazine i suppose it is really but i tow a trailer when away for more than a couople of days to keep the van less cluttered


Good idea to tow a trailer to de-clutter the M/H. But in my opinion and it is only an opinion, if I were going to tow a CAR on a regular basis, I would think it would be better & cheaper to have a car & tow a caravan.  (wash my mouth out & 500 lines)  More comfortable car for everyday use & bigger living quarters!.(unless the user has a very big A class)
However I can understand having a M/H and towing a car if a person normally goes away with a solo m/h and wants a car with them for a specific journey or journeys. (occasionally,If you get my drift)
This then opens the A frame or Trailer debate. 
My preference would be for a trailer to put the car onto.  This avoids any legal arguments and keeps mileage and wear & tear off the car. Also a damn sight easier to reverse!
Just an opinion! 
Graham
Edit.
Didn't admin post something recently about towing Smart Cars.
Milage limit & warranty implications or something like that.


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## walkers

***** said:
			
		

> Good idea to tow a trailer to de-clutter the M/H. But in my opinion and it is only an opinion, if I were going to tow a CAR on a regular basis, I would think it would be better & cheaper to have a car & tow a caravan.  (wash my mouth out & 500 lines)  More comfortable car for everyday use & bigger living quarters!.(unless the user has a very big A class)
> However I can understand having a M/H and towing a car if a person normally goes away with a solo m/h and wants a car with them for a specific journey or journeys. (occasionally,If you get my drift)
> This then opens the A frame or Trailer debate.
> My preference would be for a trailer to put the car onto.  This avoids any legal arguments and keeps mileage and wear & tear off the car. Also a damn sight easier to reverse!
> Just an opinion!
> Graham
> Edit.
> Didn't admin post something recently about towing Smart Cars.
> Milage limit & warranty implications or something like that.


admin posted on this very thread and pinted out that towing unless on a trailer may cause serious damage to transmission


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## Guest

*Admin post 5*



			
				walkers said:
			
		

> admin posted on this very thread and pinted out that towing unless on a trailer may cause serious damage to transmission


Hi Walkers, thanks, just noticed it.
It is post 5


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## Guest

***** said:
			
		

> Hi Walkers, thanks, just noticed it.
> It is post 5


Kath even has the right car to tow on either an A frame or trailer.
She has A Ford KA!
But we cannot justify buying a trailer for the rare times that we would use it! and I would not have an A frame due to reversing implications!


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## Deleted member 967

*Motorhome versus Car and Caravan*



			
				***** said:
			
		

> Good idea to tow a trailer to de-clutter the M/H. But in my opinion and it is only an opinion, if I were going to tow a CAR on a regular basis, I would think it would be better & cheaper to have a car & tow a caravan.  (wash my mouth out & 500 lines)  More comfortable car for everyday use & bigger living quarters!.(unless the user has a very big A class)
> However I can understand having a M/H and towing a car if a person normally goes away with a solo m/h and wants a car with them for a specific journey or journeys. (occasionally,If you get my drift)
> This then opens the A frame or Trailer debate.
> My preference would be for a trailer to put the car onto.  This avoids any legal arguments and keeps mileage and wear & tear off the car. Also a damn sight easier to reverse!
> Just an opinion!
> Graham
> Edit.
> Didn't admin post something recently about towing Smart Cars.
> Milage limit & warranty implications or something like that.



I have used towcars and Caravan outfits since 1971.  I prefere the motor home option  I have a *LARGE A Class* HYMER S700 7m with plenty of living space but find it is not easy to sightsee in such a large vehicle but love it for getting around and have the ability to stop almost anywhere as it is a vehicle, which is taxed and insured for use on the road a caravan isn't. Caravans are not self contained a motorhome is.

It is not legal to sleep in a caravan on the road.  (Layby parking is still the road) 

We will be using the motorhome for touring the UK and Europe on an extended tour of many months and need something to get into tourist attractions and other restricted places.  Bikes are an option for very short use but not for unfit oldies like ourselves.  The motor bike is great but it is also getting on (1961) and is better being towed about now and shown as the classic it is.  So a very small two seater light car was the next best choice.

The idea of not having a trailer appealed but the law has interviened so it looks like I an going to have to go for a trailer and Smart or similar car.  We need auto as my partner has arthritis and finds it easier to drive an auto. 

Caravans are OK for use on Caravan sites, But when the wild spirt gets hold of you a Motorhome is definitly the way to go.

Our Club uses Free Camping for Motorhomes,,,,,,Naturally as its tag line on window sticker.   We are an exempted organisation so we can use the certificate to Wild Camp legally under the "Camping and Control of Development Act 1960" with permission of the landowner.  This exemption certificated use does not eat into the 28 days that landowners can allow other to camp there, without the need for planning permission.


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## walkers

*john thompson*

did you take a look at this site, it claims the towing device operates the brakes and if it does so with an auto reverse facility it must be legal, worth a look but not for the smart car maybe a ka or other small car http://www.towingframes.com/index.htm
hope this is of use as it won't involve the extra space taken up by a trailer i actually saw a mazda mx5 on just such a device a few days ago i suppose as long as its within your tow limit any car would be possible


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## Guest

John Thompson said:
			
		

> I have used towcars and Caravan outfits since 1971.  I prefere the motor home option  I have a *LARGE A Class* HYMER S700 7m with plenty of living space but find it is not easy to sightsee in such a large vehicle but love it for getting around and have the ability to stop almost anywhere as it is a vehicle, which is taxed and insured for use on the road a caravan isn't. Caravans are not self contained a motorhome is.
> 
> It is not legal to sleep in a caravan on the road.  (Layby parking is still the road)
> 
> We will be using the motorhome for touring the UK and Europe on an extended tour of many months and need something to get into tourist attractions and other restricted places.  Bikes are an option for very short use but not for unfit oldies like ourselves.  The motor bike is great but it is also getting on (1961) and is better being towed about now and shown as the classic it is.  So a very small two seater light car was the next best choice.
> 
> The idea of not having a trailer appealed but the law has interviened so it looks like I an going to have to go for a trailer and Smart or similar car.  We need auto as my partner has arthritis and finds it easier to drive an auto.
> 
> Caravans are OK for use on Caravan sites, But when the wild spirt gets hold of you a Motorhome is definitly the way to go.
> 
> Our Club uses Free Camping for Motorhomes,,,,,,Naturally as its tag line on window sticker.   We are an exempted organisation so we can use the certificate to Wild Camp legally under the "Camping and Control of Development Act 1960" with permission of the landowner.  This exemption certificated use does not eat into the 28 days that landowners can allow other to camp there, without the need for planning permission.


John, point taken, you seem to have very valid reasons, but I have seen them towed with 20/22ft motorhomes similar to my own. Sometimes I wonder if a pose job? Yes handy & yes convenient, but are they really needed with small motorhomes? However for the guys that use them and make full use of them, well you obviously have a definite use!
Every one to their own, that is what makes us all different.


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## Nosha

*Smart Tow*

Saw a Black & White Smart car being towed down the M1 today on an 'A' frame with no oil slick or trail of gearbox cogs behind him... so I guess you can tow these cars with their sequential gearbox.

But by the number of people buying trailers from next-door I think there's quite a few who don't want to risk it - for what ever reason.


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## Deleted member 967

admin said:
			
		

> Smart Cars are one of my specialist subjects! (I also run www.smartmania.co.uk)
> 
> They make special transporter trailers for smart cars and they are the best way of transporting them. Because Smart cars are rear engined the axle on the trailer has to be moved backwards so that you have the correct tow point weight, try http://www.bantamtrailers.co.uk/. Smart cars have tiptronic gearboxes and there are guidlines about how far and at what speed you can tow them without damage.




Well after much consideration I have settled for a LHD Smart diesel (84mpg) in Black and a trailer.  We are going to call it GOFOR as it will be used to go for the shopping or to go for trips etc.
Looked at Smart-car Trailers.  I think it will be a Bantam


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## Deleted member 967

Nosha said:
			
		

> Saw a Black & White Smart car being towed down the M1 today on an 'A' frame with no oil slick or trail of gearbox cogs behind him... so I guess you can tow these cars with their sequential gearbox.
> 
> But by the number of people buying trailers from next-door I think there's quite a few who don't want to risk it - for what ever reason.



I have the handbook for the Smart and section 10-29 *Towing* states " Do not tow for more than 50km (30 miles) towing speed should not exceed 50km/h (30 mph). The  gear selector must be in th N position

In section 10-26 it states Roll Starting Move gearshift to the + position and hold it there "As the speed of the car increases the clutch is automatically engaged and the engine starts" release the selector lever.

I have done this on an early Ford Consul cortina auto to start it by rolling down a steep hill to get it to over 30mph drop it into D and it would start.  This function was disabled on later BW auto gearboxes.


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## merlin wanderer

*tow frames*

Thanks for that info the towframe website features a susuki grand vitara
in there illustrations one of the cars I drive at the present
which I would like to tow 

www.towingframes.com


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## bgsats

Been looking at all the alternatives myself, and came to the same conclusion, if you want a car behind the motorhome, it needs to be on a trailer. But then, where does the boat go? I also thought (dangerous!) if buying a trailer, why not use an older car, say a Peugeot 205 diesel, which will do the job and costs next to nothing. My 12 foot dinghy would be just a touch too big (I think) to go on a 205 roof rack, although it's very light being aluminium. The solution for our annual trip to the N. coast of Scotland this year has been to buy a Fiat Seicento located quite close to our destination (Ebay) and collect it en route - my wife will drive it the last 90 miles! First job will be to put a "For Sale" notice in the window and see whether we can get most of our money back before returning home!


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## Telstar

I've got a Chris Cox towing frame on my Corsa.  Never had any problems with it.  Mine came with a pin to place in the draw bar mechanism, I assume that is to prevent the brakes applying when reversing! The only thing with it is that some of the MOT testers don't like the metalwork on the front of the car protruding slightly past the front bumper, but a piece of pipe insulation with cable ties will sort that (their words).  My Corsa also has a towbar on the rear, perhaps that is how you could also tow a boat! only joking...I have also assumed that as we are in law classing the Corsa as a trailer, it is no longer insured as a car.  A point to consider if you were contemplating towing your pride and joy with an a frame.


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## smartowner

John Thompson said:


> I have the handbook for the Smart and section 10-29 *Towing* states " Do not tow for more than 50km (30 miles) towing speed should not exceed 50km/h (30 mph). The  gear selector must be in th N position



Sorry, I know this thread died a long time ago but I saw this thread on the way through while trying to find someone.

Yes the manual does state a speed and distance restriction but this was set by smart. I have spoken to Getrag who make the gearbox and clutch assembly and they set no restrictions. Their stance was you could tow it in neutral and the highest legal towing speed for whatever distance you care to drive.

http://evilution.co.uk/index.php?page=modpage&id=345&men=basics

Phil, you have a PM.


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