# Quality Built Motorhomes??



## Talbot (Jan 16, 2020)

Is there such a thing. Having had two disastrous experiences including lengthy legal battles with the last two motorhomes, I'm terrified of buying yet another problem vehicle. I'm considering buying again but unsure of what to buy. Is it possible to buy a motorhome that doesn't leak and that has exceptional build quality?


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## The laird (Jan 16, 2020)

German built and Bavarian imho is the way to go 
sorry to say this but it’s the truth 
maybe Italian as well


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## izwozral (Jan 16, 2020)

Probably not unfortunately, most MHer's will find a fault or two no matter the manufacturer.


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## runnach (Jan 16, 2020)

Having only owned one van a ci but worked on countless brands for a living the best quality in terms of build and durability do tend to wear German badges . This is borne out by the travelling community traditionally favouring hobby fends lmc tabbert etc .

That said I took delivery of 6 statics from trigano who are big players and each needed significant alteration to comply with our gas laws ( statics) 

So really a case of getting a feel, and edging your bets.

There is a lot to be said if you can find the people or are able yourself to converting your own to bespoke specification. That said without getting involved in re plating there is still an element of considering materials in terms of weight and cost which all the manufacturers to lesser and greater extents consider ,,,,,that is the opinion I have reached


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## mark61 (Jan 16, 2020)

Probably best to look towards the people that do expedition conversions, mainly German based too, but can be found in other countries too.


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## oppy (Jan 16, 2020)

A well loved 2nd hand oldie


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## runnach (Jan 16, 2020)

oppy said:


> A well loved 2nd hand oldie


Yep peter,lot of sense in that the vans been snagged,and others taken the biggest hit on depreciation and tax ....Eldiss are a long established name in the touring caravan world who bought buccaneer a very well respected brand , I’m not sure if they ever did Motorhome though . Incidentally still popular with the traveller types and pro rata hold their prices


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## Fisherman (Jan 16, 2020)

Talbot said:


> Is there such a thing. Having had two disastrous experiences including lengthy legal battles with the last two motorhomes, I'm terrified of buying yet another problem vehicle. I'm considering buying again but unsure of what to buy. Is it possible to buy a motorhome that doesn't leak and that has exceptional build quality?



Sorry to hear that Talbot, what a nightmare.
I bought a Chausson and had some initial problems mainly minor, but I did have a leak from the Lounge window.
But the dealer dealt with it, and I had three years of trouble free use after that.
My current van is Italian a Roller Team Pegaso 590.
And the hab door frame was not fitted properly and had to be replaced by the dealer.
And Roller team have compensated me for my expense and hassle by paying for three hab servicing.
But I have to say the build quality looks better than the Chausson,(Although we enjoyed our Chausson) and to date we have had no more problems.
I hope you are luckier with your next van, all the best.


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## trevskoda (Jan 16, 2020)

oppy said:


> A well loved 2nd hand oldie


Hes asking about vans not YOU.


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## trevskoda (Jan 16, 2020)

Has to be German.


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## Fisherman (Jan 16, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Hes asking about vans not YOU.



Go slap yersel in the heed Trev


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## oppy (Jan 16, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Hes asking about vans not YOU.


Yer askin for it Trev, the boyos are waiting, they just need the word   
Oh I do hate yew


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## Glass man (Jan 16, 2020)

Bavaria is made in the Pilote factory. We have a Pilote, 32 months old. The quality of the fittings is not great, I have to do a lot of running repairs, luckily none too serious. 
The real trouble is the design criteria. Most ( all? ) vans are designed for a ten year lifetime of ten weeks a year.
This is 700 nights which is less than two years full time.

If buying a new Fiat do consider the extended guarantee but it MUST be purchased within two weeks of first registration.


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## hextal (Jan 16, 2020)

Buy a panel Van and convert it yourself.

The other plus is that if you ain't happy with the workmanship it's very easy to get hold of the person responsible.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jan 16, 2020)

Yes   

I have just acquired a nice little old Autosleeper, with a no-leak monocoque shell and top quality build in the habitation area {smug grin!}

Unfortunately she ain't for sale, so you'll have to get out there and find your own, I'm afraid


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## Mr and Mrs Tupcox (Jan 16, 2020)

Once you find the van you want,  join a   group for that make On fb and talk to people that have one you will soon see all motorhomes have problems. ALL


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## Fisherman (Jan 16, 2020)

Mr and Mrs Tupcox said:


> Once you find the van you want,  join a   group for that make On fb and talk to people that have one you will soon see all motorhomes have problems. ALL



Spot on.
My attitude is expect a problem(s) and judge how these problems are dealt with.
The salesman who sold me my current van told me he had been selling motorhomes and caravans for 30 years, and every Motorhome and caravan he ever sold had something wrong.


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## 2cv (Jan 16, 2020)

Wingamm make lovely vans, but of course you pay for the quality compared to more mainstream manufacturers, who these days are just badges on vans made by large groups.
I‘m also impressed by the finish on Moto trek vans, though this can be at the expense of payload in some models.


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## 2cv (Jan 16, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Spot on.
> My attitude is expect a problem(s) and judge how these problems are dealt with.
> The salesman who sold me my current van told me he had been selling motorhomes and caravans for 30 years, and every Motorhome and caravan he ever sold had something wrong.



He mustn’t have sold a Bentley


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## Fisherman (Jan 16, 2020)

2cv said:


> He mustn’t have sold a Bentley



He sold lots of Hymers, and other German models.
He did rate Hymers though.
Said they were the best built, but he was not keen on some of their layouts.


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## Okta (Jan 16, 2020)

The Hymer I had was well built and the Carthago I now have seems even better finished.


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## trevskoda (Jan 16, 2020)

Some of the vans i looked at before staring out on my build were so bad i was steered to the self build world and info i got here helped 100%.


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## Fisherman (Jan 16, 2020)

Okta said:


> The Hymer I had was well built and the Carthago I now have seems even better finished.



Now your just posing Okta. 
looked at a 7 m Carthago at the NEC lovely van.
If they built a 6m A class we would have considered it.


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## Fisherman (Jan 16, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Some of the vans i looked at before staring out on my build were so bad i was steered to the self build world and info i got here helped 100%.



I thought you drove  Skodas Trev


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## phillybarbour (Jan 16, 2020)

I have a Carthago and it’s truly outstanding, although it had minor faults but all very minor. I am quite active on the fb owners group and vast majority love them. Having said that a member recently sold after 12 months saying it was a nightmare. That is the only member I know off who has had serious faults and we have around 500 vans or roughly 1000 people as members. Bar going Concorde/Morello I don’t think there is a better built van. This is our 4th van, all German and happy with our previous Burstners and Globecar.


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## molly 2 (Jan 16, 2020)

2cv said:


> Wingamm make lovely vans, but of course you pay for the quality compared to more mainstream manufacturers, who these days are just badges on vans made by large groups.
> I‘m also impressed by the finish on Moto trek vans, though this can be at the expense of payload in some models.


  Have to agree on wingamm  purely on mono construction moto trek  are made a couple of miles from me I had a look at them was put of by short warranty 12 months  then passed over to insurance warranty. I was also concerned about slide out side  problems.


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## 1807truckman (Jan 16, 2020)

I've had four motorhomes to date, two Italian and two German, the two German vans were without doubt far better quality, the Hymer A class didn't really give any trouble over the eleven year I owned it, the Geist (built by LMC, now part of Hymer Group) I think was the best motorhome I've owned, it was virtually rattle free and gave no problems at all in the three years I owned it, I only changed it due to the high mileage 50,000 miles and wife falling in love with the Hymer.


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## Forresbroons (Jan 16, 2020)

Our first van was a IH and it's build quality up there with the best of them,but it does come at a cost. Would have love to buy another one but cost was not in our budget.


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## Tonybvi (Jan 16, 2020)

We‘ve had a Burstner and a Frankia and are now on a Hymer.  All good well built vans, keeping each for around 5 or 6 years before parting with them for reasons other than being disappointed with them.  I consider that the Hymer is the best built of them all, with Frankia fairly close behind and the Burstner a bit behind that.


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## Martin P (Jan 16, 2020)

How does it work when you buy a new van. I would not be happy to pay more than a small deposit until every system had been fully demonstrated to me. I would want to check the charger voltage on landline , the voltage on the habs with the engine running.  Electrolyte level. The hot water on all taps. The central heating. All hob burners,  cooker oven and grill , fridge cooling. All door hinges and catches. Toilet flush. All window fits. All external doors and hatches. Fit and locking and seals( visual).  Also I would go over with my damp meter( I am lucky enough to have a pinless one). Visual inspection on all cushion seams and upholstery. Window operation, blinds and flyscreens. Roof hatch operation, flyscreen and blind. Ditto roof vents. Bed operation, if not fixed. Tv if fitted. Van base checks as usual. Lights indicators horn wipers heater radio lighter socket etc . Then exterior visual check. Date code on tyres and proper rating. Cab doors, windscreen and glass, Visual cab to body join. Window fitting from outside visual with windows opened and closed. Visual check landline socket and waterfill. Gas locker. Regulator vis check and gas system working with bottle fitted. Position of gas valves inside van Visual check of body hatches and door alignment and colour. Secureness check of anybother fittings. (Bike rack etc)
Road test at least a couple of miles
Then and only then would I pay the balance
So often do you hear " it wasnt till we got it home that we noticed"


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## 2cv (Jan 16, 2020)

Forresbroons said:


> Our first van was a IH and it's build quality up there with the best of them,but it does come at a cost. Would have love to buy another one but cost was not in our budget.



IH certainly look to be quality vans.


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## trevskoda (Jan 16, 2020)

When i was in the motor trade folks came in to buy a used or new car,they never ask for the hood to be opened or anything else for that mater,the hubby got in and sat a while while the sales team gave his wife a big bunch of flowers,deal done and dusted,fact is 99% of people no nothing of the second biggest asset they buy in there life next to a home,and they buy them blind to.


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## Fisherman (Jan 16, 2020)

Martin P said:


> How does it work when you buy a new van. I would not be happy to pay more than a small deposit until every system had been fully demonstrated to me. I would want to check the charger voltage on landline , the voltage on the habs with the engine running.  Electrolyte level. The hot water on all taps. The central heating. All hob burners,  cooker oven and grill , fridge cooling. All door hinges and catches. Toilet flush. All window fits. All external doors and hatches. Fit and locking and seals( visual).  Also I would go over with my damp meter( I am lucky enough to have a pinless one). Visual inspection on all cushion seams and upholstery. Window operation, blinds and flyscreens. Roof hatch operation, flyscreen and blind. Ditto roof vents. Bed operation, if not fixed. Tv if fitted. Van base checks as usual. Lights indicators horn wipers heater radio lighter socket etc . Then exterior visual check. Date code on tyres and proper rating. Cab doors, windscreen and glass, Visual cab to body join. Window fitting from outside visual with windows opened and closed. Visual check landline socket and waterfill. Gas locker. Regulator vis check and gas system working with bottle fitted. Position of gas valves inside van Visual check of body hatches and door alignment and colour. Secureness check of anybother fittings. (Bike rack etc)
> Road test at least a couple of miles
> Then and only then would I pay the balance
> So often do you hear " it wasnt till we got it home that we noticed"



All very well Martin, but you could do all of this and faults could still develop.
Also even this list does not cover many things hidden out of site, also trying to figure out how things work can take a long time. And until you have mastered much of the equipment these checks would be difficult. On returning home I found that the fresh water pump had been fitted wrong way round meaning the filter cover could not be removed. Also the alarm system should have had a detector fitted in the bonnet, but none was installed. These issues were sorted by the dealer and the alarm company.
We spent a night on a CL close to the dealer before heading home.


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## Martin P (Jan 16, 2020)

Absolutely agreed Mr Fisherman
I spent quite a few years building quite complex narrowboats it was a bit of an eye opener for me when we bought our first secondhand motorhome. Yes having specced and fitted various systems to boats gave me a background idea of how things should have worked it wasn't quite as simple as it should have been. The hot water system had a dreadful splutter which as it was a system i had no knowledge of i didn't know if it was normal or not. As it happened the non return valve in the micro switch activated pump had failed which took some time to work out. When you are not sure how things are supposed to behave it can be quite bewildering. 
I accept my list above is not 100% comprehensive it represents the minimum i would go through. I have repaired many systems on our mh so now understand quite well how most of them work. For someone with less experience on mh i would advise taking an experienced campaigner with them to help carry out the checks.
As you so rightly say things can still be missed so i would try to buy from a dealer who was reasonably close


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## Fisherman (Jan 17, 2020)

When you consider what goes into building a modern Motorhome, it would be a minor miracle if nothing was wrong. It’s all about how problems are dealt with, rather than trying to build or buy something which is flawless. I remember buying my first van, I was given a canvas bag full of instructions, it took me about ten days to patiently work my way through all of these. I would carefully read through them whilst using the peace of equipment at the same time.
what I look for is a good warranty, and my roller team comes with a 10 year water ingress warranty and a five year habitation warranty.
Another thing I see on here are comments on dealers. Well I have ran a small business now for 30 years, I will be selling up and retiring this year. I have always tried to be good to my customers, but I know that some will be unhappy. You cannot please everyone, and those that shout the loudest are not the happy ones who make up the vast majority. It’s the unhappy ones some of who are unrealistic and unreasonable.
No matter what you buy a Hymer, chausson, auto trail, Bailey you are almost certain to find somethings wrong, that’s only a problem if the dealership lets you down. And they rely heavily on their reputations, and hope to deal with you and your friends in the future.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jan 17, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> *When you consider what goes into building a modern Motorhome, it would be a minor miracle if nothing was wrong*. It’s all about how problems are dealt with, rather than trying to build or buy something which is flawless. I remember buying my first van, I was given a canvas bag full of instructions, it took me about ten days to patiently work my way through all of these. I would carefully read through them whilst using the peace of equipment at the same time.
> what I look for is a good warranty, and my roller team comes with a 10 year water ingress warranty and a five year habitation warranty.
> Another thing I see on here are comments on dealers. Well I have ran a small business now for 30 years, I will be selling up and retiring this year. I have always tried to be good to my customers, but I know that some will be unhappy. You cannot please everyone, and those that shout the loudest are not the happy ones who make up the vast majority. It’s the unhappy ones some of who are unrealistic and unreasonable.
> No matter what you buy a Hymer, chausson, auto trail, Bailey you are almost certain to find somethings wrong, that’s only a problem if the dealership lets you down. And they rely heavily on their reputations, and hope to deal with you and your friends in the future.



When you consider the cost of a new motorhome, I would expect nothing but very minor issues to be wrong - and I mean VERY minor issues! You're effectively buying a "mini house" on wheels, and with the prices charged for new motorhomes you can still buy a substantial house in some parts of the country. They are a luxury/leisure item after all, and I'm afraid I would expect it to be fully functional and near-perfect for the amount of dosh you have to fork out.

Guess that would put me in the "awkward customer" bracket!   

Yes, some customers have unrealistic expectations and will always nit-pick over things that are neither bad quality nor very important, and a lot is down to personal standards and taste. If the wife wants the latest fashionista kitchen/bathroom in the motorhome to be "this year's colour" and match the one you have at home then expect to be paying through the nose.

For many people owning a motorhome will always remain an unattainable dream, much like owning their own property is now well out of reach for a lot of the younger generation in the UK.

I am just very grateful that we have the luxury of a camper van again, even if it is an old (but quality!) girl.

But even if I became a millionaire overnight I wouldn't spend a single penny on ANY of the new motorhomes out there.

I would definitely self-build (or get someone to build it for me).
It's about time more women got into designing layouts and taught some of these motorhome manufacturers a thing or two!


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## trevskoda (Jan 17, 2020)

Marie have you thought about a roof garden and hanging baskets on the w/mirrors.
You are correct and i do think the girls should and could put more in,sad fact is to many would rather be doing there nails as apposed to getting them dirty,my wife can strip a car down and knows what all the parts are and where they go,simply by watching and getting the hands dirty,and why not.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jan 17, 2020)

If I had my time over, Trev, I would learn carpentry, plumbing, electrickery and engine mechanics and maintenance.

Stuff the office jobs!

A bit of welding and paint-spraying knowledge wouldn't go amiss either.

Oh, and definitely gardening on the side, natch


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## 2cv (Jan 17, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> When you consider what goes into building a modern Motorhome, it would be a minor miracle if nothing was wrong. It’s all about how problems are dealt with, rather than trying to build or buy something which is flawless. I remember buying my first van, I was given a canvas bag full of instructions, it took me about ten days to patiently work my way through all of these. I would carefully read through them whilst using the peace of equipment at the same time.
> what I look for is a good warranty, and my roller team comes with a 10 year water ingress warranty and a five year habitation warranty.
> Another thing I see on here are comments on dealers. Well I have ran a small business now for 30 years, I will be selling up and retiring this year. I have always tried to be good to my customers, but I know that some will be unhappy. You cannot please everyone, and those that shout the loudest are not the happy ones who make up the vast majority. It’s the unhappy ones some of who are unrealistic and unreasonable.
> No matter what you buy a Hymer, chausson, auto trail, Bailey you are almost certain to find somethings wrong, that’s only a problem if the dealership lets you down. And they rely heavily on their reputations, and hope to deal with you and your friends in the future.



Having looked for a long time for my first (and only) van, I took the risk and bought it new with no warranty. I did see that it looked very well put together so decided to take the risk as it was just what I wanted. As things turned out the only work needed in what would have been the warranty period was a small job on the base vehicle so was covered by Renault. I think that it’s more important to go for a quality build than to rely on a warranty to put problems right, especially if buying a long way from home.


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## Fisherman (Jan 17, 2020)

Marie you mentioned buying a new home.









						More than half of new-build homes in England 'have major faults'
					

Shelter survey finds 51% of owners of recent new builds experience problems including construction, fittings and utilities




					www.theguardian.com
				




And that’s homes with major faults, not a chipped kitchen worktop, or a cracked roof tile. My own home had a leak in my roof due to flashing being to narrow on my dormer. But the fault did not show up for 8 years, luckily within the nhbc warranty.

Also you said you would never buy a new Motorhome, but would buy second hand. Well you are far more likely to get a major fault on a second hand Motorhome than a new one, and possibly with no or a reduced warranty. Many people sell their Motorhomes because they have had a lot of bother with them, or they have a nagging fault when they sell them.

All I am trying to say is it’s better to expect a fault because when buying a new home or a new Motorhome the odds are you will either find one initially or after some use. What’s really important is the back up you receive.


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## Fisherman (Jan 17, 2020)

2cv said:


> Having looked for a long time for my first (and only) van, I took the risk and bought it new with no warranty. I did see that it looked very well put together so decided to take the risk as it was just what I wanted. As things turned out the only work needed in what would have been the warranty period was a small job on the base vehicle so was covered by Renault. I think that it’s more important to go for a quality build than to rely on a warranty to put problems right, especially if buying a long way from home.



Well I never knew you could buy a new Motorhome without a warranty, not something I would do 2cv.


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## 2cv (Jan 17, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Well I never knew you could buy a new Motorhome without a warranty, not something I would do 2cv.



The manufacturer had ceased trading, though of course I still had some legal rights with the dealer and the base vehicle still had its manufacturer warranty. Of course the price paid reflected the lack of warranty, and thankfully it would never have been needed anyway.


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## Fisherman (Jan 17, 2020)

2cv said:


> The manufacturer had ceased trading, though of course I still had some legal rights with the dealer and the base vehicle still had its manufacturer warranty. Of course the price paid reflected the lack of warranty, and thankfully it would never have been needed anyway.



I see 2cv. 
well I am pleased it all worked out for you.


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## runnach (Jan 17, 2020)

Re reliability if you consider there are probably 20000 components that make up a Motorhome perhaps more including every grommet nail screw and washer ...and production is 99.9% efficient which I suspect non are and would be an inspiration for a manufacturer that equates to 20 faults on any new vehicle things get progressively worse on used ...it makes warranties a good idea ?


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## Nabsim (Jan 17, 2020)

I think luck has a lot to do with it, if you are unlucky to get a bad one then it doesn’t matter what the norm is,that pile of crap Hymer Charlie had shows that. Looked great as a new van that price should but when he had the independent inspection done the guy said it had almost every problem that can be found in a Hymer and a good few were at construction stage.

I bought mine knowing nothing about motorhomes from a trade dealer with 3 month warranty, knew I wouldn’t be going back unless it blew up on the way home. Two years on and more use with me than an average motorhome will ever get and I still love it.

I wouldn’t buy new if I won big on the lottery unless it was something like a MB 4x4 expedition vehicle though. Met loads of folks over the last couple of years who have all sorts of new vans that have some fairly big problems (or smaller ones they can’t get sorted). I think my ideal would be a Luton conversion or some sort of small bus/coach conversion.


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## mariesnowgoose (Jan 17, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Marie you mentioned buying a new home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually, I meant more the older properties for the price of a motor home rather than a modern build, although some might just squeak in at a top motorhome price.

Modern build houses are more likely to be just as much of a nightmare as a new motorhome!

A lot depends on an individual's financial position.

When you're not that well off - I know that statement is always relative - and you have a very limited budget you don't always have much of a  choice. You either do without, or take a calculated risk.

But lots of things we all do in life are full of risk, depends where you are personally on the risk-averse scale 

Me, I'll take a chance. I might not still be here to risk anything in 5 years time! And neither might you, or anyone else.


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## harrow (Jan 17, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> But lots of things we all do in life are full of risk, depends where you are personally on the risk-averse scale
> 
> Me, I'll take a chance. I might not still be here to risk anything in 5 years time! And neither might you, or anyone else.



Now come on Marie think positive !

You might not be here in 5 years, BUT a new motorhome will still be having warranty repairs


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## Fisherman (Jan 17, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Actually, I meant more the older properties for the price of a motor home rather than a modern build, although some might just squeak in at a top motorhome price.
> 
> Modern build houses are more likely to be just as much of a nightmare as a new motorhome!
> 
> ...



Marie what can I say, other than I hope you are still here  in 25 years time and still telling us idiots who buy new motorhomes that we should buy second hand.
I hope you outlive your motorhome, and have some great memorable trips in it in future Marie, I really do.


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## Martin P (Jan 17, 2020)

I guess we all do things our own way. You pays yer money and makes yer choice but at a dealers I would say this
I like this motorhome and would like to buy it. So if you or your engineer would like to take an hour to go through this check list with me and all is satisfactory then you have a deal.
What on earth is wrong with that


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## Fisherman (Jan 17, 2020)

Martin P said:


> I guess we all do things our own way. You pays yer money and makes yer choice but at a dealers I would say this
> I like this motorhome and would like to buy it. So if you or your engineer would like to take an hour to go through this check list with me and all is satisfactory then you have a deal.
> What on earth is wrong with that



Nothing Martin sounds very reasonable.
They are supposed to do PDI checks, but in my experience they don’t, or don’t do them properly.

All I would say is say you find something wrong, and they offer to take care of it would you buy then.
My Motorhome came with a badly installed door frame, but it did not stop us from using it. If I had insisted on the repair being done before paying, we would have missed out on using it until the new door frame was replaced, and that would have taken 6 weeks. When you have waited for months to get your new van as we did, you just want to get out there in it if possible.


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## hextal (Jan 17, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Marie you mentioned buying a new home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I work as a civil engineer (albeit with bridges), so I know a lot of civil and structural engineers, and none of them would go anywhere near a modern house unless they had personally supervised construction.


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## Fisherman (Jan 17, 2020)

hextal said:


> I work as a civil engineer (albeit with bridges), so I know a lot of civil and structural engineers, and none of them would go anywhere near a modern house unless they had personally supervised construction.



my son bought a 100 year old Edwardian property 5 years ago just outside Glasgow hextal.
Within months he found rising damp and had to move out and live with us for 6 weeks whilst his floor boards were lifted and a new damp course was installed.
He was informed last November that he has dry rot in his roof members, and possibly he may need to replace his whole roof. This will mean him having to move out again and live with us.
The damp course work cost £14,000. I dread to think how much his roof will cost.


I have lived in my home for twenty four years now from new, and apart from the flashing being blocked up with silt on the dormer gulleys because they were to narrow and covered with half tiles I have had no problems. And as the fault was reported within the ten year warranty period the work was carried out under the NHBC warranty.  

Buying any home carries risk, new or old.


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## hextal (Jan 17, 2020)

Yes and no I'd say. Yes there is always risk, but new builds tend to be built with much less quality control, clerks if works, etc.

You get issues with old houses, but they tend to be pretty easy to spot. Your lad should have recourse against the structural surveyor, if he used one before the purchase.

Rising damp is a contentious issue, with most experts broadly being of the view that it doesn't actually happen. Even when I was at uni they were testing it with various walls sitting in water baths.

You get a certain degree of capillary action with porous materials like brick, concrete, masonry etc, but I don't believe there's any notable evidence to show that it will be drawn up any notable levels. Plaster can wick quite well mind. In pretty much most cases the water has come in from high level, flashing, leaking roof/drains, blocked gutters, even lean-tos etc against walls.


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## Millie Master (Jan 17, 2020)

Talbot said:


> Is there such a thing. Having had two disastrous experiences including lengthy legal battles with the last two motorhomes, I'm terrified of buying yet another problem vehicle. I'm considering buying again but unsure of what to buy. Is it possible to buy a motorhome that doesn't leak and that has exceptional build quality?



Sad to say, but buy anything other than a British brand, or possibly consider making one yourself and then you will know exactly how it is built, it will also give you the chance to sit inside your creation each and every day with a happy, smug smile across your chubby little cheeks whilst thinking to yourself "bloody hell I built this".
I built mine 5 years ago and the pleasure of the experience has never diminished!!!


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## QFour (Jan 17, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Also you said you would never buy a new Motorhome, but would buy second hand. Well you are far more likely to get a major fault on a second hand Motorhome than a new one, and possibly with no or a reduced warranty. Many people sell their Motorhomes because they have had a lot of bother with them, or they have a nagging fault when they sell them.



We got rid of our Swift Bolero just before the warranty ran out. Got fed up of screwing it back together, bits breaking and all the rattles and squeaks
We got rid of our Pilote 716 after 14 months. It was traded in with the electric bed jammed in the up position

We now have a Laika that we would not swap. Few problems but nothing major after nearly 5 years and 27,000 miles

Why would anyone want to get rid of a MH thats only a year or so old. Its a big hit to the wallet so there is usually a good reason. You can see that on the Unhappy Autotrail Forum. Autotrail gets rejected by the buyer and it's back out on the forecourt looking for another mug who probably won't complain as much.


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## Fisherman (Jan 17, 2020)

QFour said:


> We got rid of our Swift Bolero just before the warranty ran out. Got fed up of screwing it back together, bits breaking and all the rattles and squeaks
> We got rid of our Pilote 716 after 14 months. It was traded in with the electric bed jammed in the up position
> 
> We now have a Laika that we would not swap. Few problems but nothing major after nearly 5 years and 27,000 miles
> ...



Sometimes folk do their homework go out and buy a new van, then after going out with it and meeting others they realise that they should have bought something else QFour. We met a couple on Arran last summer who had bought a lovely Westfilia van conversion. They showed us inside it and it looked really well put together, not what we wanted but none the less a nice van. But what started the conversation was our Motorhome. They had spotted us before and told us how much they liked our van. Well they returned to Wales and ordered our van after only having their own van for 18 months.
Now when we bought our chausson 510 we loved it, but after three years and lots of experience some things started to annoy us. We still wanted a 6m van, a separate shower, large lounge etc, but we did not like amongst other things  the fact that when we dropped the bed we lost the lounge. So after only three years we took a bit of a hit ourselves. But we enjoyed the 510, we learnt a lot from it, and I don’t regret what we did.


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## Toffeecat (Jan 17, 2020)

My Adria had some initial gripes but since they were sorted running sweet as a sweet thing. Of the three faults only one was Adria,one Dometic and one Truma. Fit and finish is excellent. The British Motorhomes I had a look at only one brand if say had good quality. The others fit finish looked like a blind mans dog had put them together. Then again I used to work in quality control at a car factory in the paint shop so maybe im being picky. Foreign motorhomes just didn't seem to have the fit and finish problems. Shame.


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## Talbot (Jan 17, 2020)

Thanks everyone for sharing your personal experiences. I visited Event City motorhome show today and sadly almost 50% of the vehicles on show were Swift, which are not on my list. However, both Burstner and Adria motorhomes were represented and look far superior to the British built vans. I'm still looking though and definitely favouring the European manufacturers.


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## DnK (Jan 17, 2020)

Talbot said:


> Thanks everyone for sharing your personal experiences. I visited Event City motorhome show today and sadly almost 50% of the vehicles on show were Swift, which are not on my list. However, both Burstner and Adria motorhomes were represented and look far superior to the British built vans. I'm still looking though and definitely favouring the European manufacturers.



I was there today and disappointed with the ranges on show. Did you see the Hobby Optima Premium? I was very impressed with the build quality (i'm a carpenter & Joiner by trade) and layout. I'm not in the market for a new van but like to keep up with whats available.


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## Sharpie (Jan 18, 2020)

New houses ? Well a brother bought one which turned out to be a nightmare. Actually amazingly the man from Zurich insurance had turned out to have a look around  just before completion and decided that no way would they cover it. Everything was wrong, floors not level, even the chimney had been put in upside down so they can never use a woodburner as planned, but most importantly the walls were wonky, verging on dangerous, It took five years of court cases to get compensation, from SIFS, which only happened on the courtroom steps, my dad having backed the process to at least £50,000. Which SIFS also paid back. This took an independent legal firm to do, the big ones didn't want to mess with SIFS. The house is now tied together with stainless steel bands, the windows replaced because the originals either shattered or just jammed up with the movement, the floors dug up and done properly. Not a great result. 

All campervans will have their problems, nothing is perfect, some are better than others, a good dealer will fix them, a poor one will not. The British made ones can be appalling, even fundamentally flawed. I won't mention names but none of the big ones make a quality product.


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## martinmartin (Jan 18, 2020)

Brand new motorhomes or even houses should be virtually without fault especially houses. They aren't experiments ,mass production sometimes doesn't work,especially when tied into profit.


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## Sharpie (Jan 18, 2020)

Dream on, back in the real world reality strikes.


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## Okta (Jan 19, 2020)

I think house building quality went down the pan when Building Regulations for large residential developments stopped being overseen by local authorities and was taken over by the NHBC as an insurance product.


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## Fisherman (Jan 19, 2020)

martinmartin said:


> Brand new motorhomes or even houses should be virtually without fault especially houses. They aren't experiments ,mass production sometimes doesn't work,especially when tied into profit.



Motorhomes are not mass produced like cars.
In the uk last year there were only 14,000 sold including campers and panel conversions. But when you consider there are hundreds to choose from many will only amount to a few each year. As Channa stated there are around 20,000 components within a new camper expect some hopefully minor problems that won’t stop you from using your van. But you may be unlucky and have an issue that will force you of the road for a while. But most faults are minor, meaning they don’t prevent use.


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## trevskoda (Jan 19, 2020)

Okta said:


> I think house building quality went down the pan when Building Regulations for large residential developments stopped being overseen by local authorities and was taken over by the NHBC as an insurance product.


Council dep do it here,you must get a cert when all work complete, im going for mine this year for extension.


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## Fisherman (Jan 19, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Council dep do it here,you must get a cert when all work complete, im going for mine this year for extension.



And in Scotland, building warrants/ control, and planning are local authority controlled.
But don’t believe that older properties were built without issues. I remember my grandfather telling me about problems they had in the 1920s when moving into a new council house. Problems with house construction are not new, there has always been issues.


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## Sharpie (Jan 19, 2020)

British motorhome manufacturing, for the UK market is almost a cottage industry. Some still using construction methods and components more suited to a caravan than something likely to be driven for 10.000 miles a year, in our climate. Even the fundamentals, such as having a floor that is waterproof underneath haven't been addressed, a neighbour took a big loss on a Bailey for example, after 18 months and traded it for something better for just this reason, and many other problems, the flaw was fundamental, was only going to rapidly get far worse, and neither the dealer nor Bailey were prepared to do anything about it. Probably they simply couldn't. Somebody else will be having to live with this problem now, as will anyone else with that particular model. They still seem to be making them the same way.

Whereas the foreign manufacturers operate on a far bigger scale, huge and expanding market, some economies still buoyant, big industry groups, efficient mass manufacturing often done in relatively low cost labour regions, motorhome use far more popular, and can develop their vehicles far more thoroughly, having been doing so for decades, constantly improving. 

We are lucky that some of them are prepared to put the steering wheel on the "wrong" side to cater for the unique UK market. Personally I'd be quite happy with an LHD import.

AFAIK nobody abroad buys British made motorhomes or caravans, they are quite a demanding market and poor quality of design and manufacture at high prices isn't good enough.

Even some of our dealers just don't understand customer service, e.g. I've only had two minor problems in nine years with my Dethleffs made Globecar. A good van. An AGM battery and a water pump that failed in the first 18 months, sometimes these things happen, nothing is perfect. Obviously I replaced them myself since it would be over 300 mile round trip to the dealer in Newark, who was utterly incompetent in everything that they added to the van. TV aerial, reversing sensors, radio, all a botch job that took them three goes to sort of get working and I've subsequently re done myself, to a decent standard. They booked me onto a local site for the weekend to shake down and familiarise with the new van, which was nice, but I was still there after three more days taken from my annual holiday allowance, and now know Newark very well, having had to spend those days wandering around it whilst the van was back in the workshop. It has its attractions, but after three days I'd seen enough. As for paying for, or just making a contribution, to the cost of the battery and water pump, fat chance. They'd had my money for the purchase and weren't interested in me. So I'm not interested in them either, actually it would be a cold  day in hell before I went back there.


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## Fisherman (Jan 19, 2020)

I saw a British built van  summer 2018 and it was poorly built. I won’t name it because I try not to upset folk, and I am sure there will be owners on here. The chap was happy with his purchase and gave me a tour outside and inside. I have never seen more mastic over poor joints, door handles that were not straight, gaps around doors, and screws without covers that will rust. I have never seen such an over hang on a van. It had the standard fiat chassis (not the camper chassis with lowered chassis and wider rear axle)  on a 7.5 m van. Inside well when you walked about all you heard were squeaks and other noises, god knows what it was like when driven. The cupboards looked cheap, the kitchen was poorly laid out, and the oven was poorly positioned, I could go on. When at the NEC last February I made a point of going to their section to look at their vans, and the standards of workmanship was no better. Yes they were cheap the 7.5 m coach built was around £45,000, but they were cheap for a reason.
I would have liked a German van, but none of them build what we have, I looked at a 6m hymer but the layout was not to our liking. But our Italian van is definitely better put together than our chausson, and way better than the British make I have been posting about.


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## runnach (Jan 19, 2020)

The two major players are trigano who trade from ci roller team Carthago and have Italian roots the other major player the hymer group ...in the case of the latter , they have deliberately headhunted ex senior management of the Volkswagen group to emulate their set of seat Skoda vw and Audi which has served well last few years.
Common components and has sharpie suggests low cost manufacturing bases so they can really get the benefits of economies of scale.whether this remains to exclusive benefit of the profit and loss account remains to be seen

Bailey in Bristol invested heavily a few years ag in the alu tech body systems and the problems besieged them, whilst toady are actually ok the legacy continues to haunt them .

The last company I was involved with was predominantly an engineering company specialist amongst other things large liquid starter motors to start generators in power stations,mines and battleships the mod being one of our customers.

The point was a lot of the big customers expected us to be accredited with iso9002, which we were...but in my totally honest opinion it purely demonstrated a system , in other words we could produce crap but it was consistent crap we didn’t but you get my point ..mechanisms to react via improvement painfully slow and depressing.

There are good manufacturers IH at knottingley a good example . So the brits can do it , people often don’t want to pay the premium.f
It breaks my heart it truly does, all the innovation land sea and air this country has bestowed on the world to us rapidly becoming also rand ,,,Great Britain and our pride should be worth more than that


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## john77 (Jan 19, 2020)

Give us a clue . Fisherman what is it???


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## Toffeecat (Jan 19, 2020)

I dont know if its a modern thing. MyElddis 120 from 2007 was a great motorhome. Nothing other than the odd catch ever went wrong. It was pretty well made and I never wanted to sell it. I see lots of folk with older motorhomes which they tell me are great and  just chug along. Fella two doors along has a Burstner I think and its done 150,000 plus and runs great and its from the mid 1990's. Loads of old Hymers I see out and about. They look great. Wonder if modern ones will look as good at that age.


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## Fisherman (Jan 19, 2020)

Toffeecat said:


> I dont know if its a modern thing. MyElddis 120 from 2007 was a great motorhome. Nothing other than the odd catch ever went wrong. It was pretty well made and I never wanted to sell it. I see lots of folk with older motorhomes which they tell me are great and  just chug along. Fella two doors along has a Burstner I think and its done 150,000 plus and runs great and its from the mid 1990's. Loads of old Hymers I see out and about. They look great. Wonder if modern ones will look as good at that age.



Hi Toffecat, with GRP cladding its reckoned they will look almost as new for decades. But then looks are only superficial.


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## Fisherman (Jan 19, 2020)

***** said:


> I remember a few years ago when I was parked next to an owner of what has been described a few posts ago, as a good UK example. This northern panel van manufacturer started to make premium priced coachbuilts and I expect they still do.
> The guy next to me pointed out that he had just found his gas locker floor was broken and the bottles were in danger of falling out. He telephoned a mate with the same van, telling him to check his. Guess what? Same problem was reported !
> Moving on, I don't think any brands are as strong as earlier generations, mainly due to weight limits and owners wanting more and more gadgets and comforts
> I do know my first of 5 Hymers was the best built!
> ...



And as anyone who passed their driving test after 1997 won't have a C1 license, this is becoming even more critical for manufacturers.
Most of the problems I read on here and in MMM involve the engine, and modern engines are more reliable, if more complicated than before.
As I have said before there should be a standardisation of how payload is calculated, and vans should be sold with a certified read out of each van.
I think that dealers should be made to explain payload to first time buyers, to many big vans with tiny payloads out there.


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## martinmartin (Jan 20, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Motorhomes are not mass produced like cars.
> In the uk last year there were only 14,000 sold including campers and panel conversions. But when you consider there are hundreds to choose from many will only amount to a few each year. As Channa stated there are around 20,000 components within a new camper expect some hopefully minor problems that won’t stop you from using your van. But you may be unlucky and have an issue that will force you of the road for a while. But most faults are minor, meaning they don’t prevent use.


Percentages are used by the positive thinking brigade and political folk when it comes to excuse for blunders.


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## martinmartin (Jan 20, 2020)

Talbot said:


> Thanks everyone for sharing your personal experiences. I visited Event City motorhome show today and sadly almost 50% of the vehicles on show were Swift, which are not on my list. However, both Burstner and Adria motorhomes were represented and look far superior to the British built vans. I'm still looking though and definitely favouring the European manufacturers.


Picked a guy up about 2 months ago from swift (no I'm not gay) and he said don't buy one, he was off the production line, l will keep what he said to myself, buy one by all means if that's what you want.


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## trevskoda (Jan 20, 2020)

When you buy a swift here they give you a free umberdoddle with it,wonder why.


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## Fisherman (Jan 20, 2020)

martinmartin said:


> Percentages are used by the positive thinking brigade and political folk when it comes to excuse for blunders.



What has that got to do with my post.
You stated that Motorhomes are mass produced, I stated they’re not.
That has nothing to do with statistics, positive thinking brigades, political folks, or anyone else. As for percentages, they were never mentioned.
It took roller team 7 days to build my Motorhome, and Fiat a day to assemble the engine and chassis. Toyota  can assemble a car in hours.


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## Nabsim (Jan 21, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> What has that got to do with my post.
> You stated that Motorhomes are mass produced, I stated they’re not.
> That has nothing to do with statistics, positive thinking brigades, political folks, or anyone else. As for percentages, they were never mentioned.
> It took roller team 7 days to build my Motorhome, and Fiat a day to assemble the engine and chassis. Toyota  can assemble a car in hours.


The vast majority of motorhomes are mass produced on production lines. You don’t need to turn out one every few seconds or even one a day for them to qualify as mass produced.
There are pictures or videos on the net of most if not all the better known marques being built. Hymer as an example is very impressive to see, you wouldn’t think so many were being made.
Swift were turning out 15,000 units a year a good way back. Motorhomes and caravans are made in the same factory in a lot of places.
We may like to think we are buying a high quality hand built show piece but the reality for quite a few folks is very different. What is being sold is very often the best compromise the manufacturer can provide and maintain their profit margin at that time. They are designed with a life unlikely to equal one years full timing and having an easy life (obviously not counting adventure/expedition/overland in that).
Car production lines and mass production is better because they have better or more consistent quality control in my opinion.


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## Drover (Jan 21, 2020)

hextal said:


> I work as a civil engineer (albeit with bridges), so I know a lot of civil and structural engineers, and none of them would go anywhere near a modern house unless they had personally supervised construction.


This is exactly what we are doing..... a very small 9mt x 9mt single story dwelling , I would say bungalow,  but it isn't one as it is a bit eco . All at a cost though.


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## trevskoda (Jan 21, 2020)

Kit homes are the way to go,factory built,look up german hoof house,fact is vans a mainly bling built for those with rose tinted glasses and not ment to be practical or long lasting,fact that many do is because they sit outside folks homes and only venture out for 2 weeks a year to a camp site.


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## Fisherman (Jan 21, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> The vast majority of motorhomes are mass produced on production lines. You don’t need to turn out one every few seconds or even one a day for them to qualify as mass produced.
> There are pictures or videos on the net of most if not all the better known marques being built. Hymer as an example is very impressive to see, you wouldn’t think so many were being made.
> Swift were turning out 15,000 units a year a good way back. Motorhomes and caravans are made in the same factory in a lot of places.
> We may like to think we are buying a high quality hand built show piece but the reality for quite a few folks is very different. What is being sold is very often the best compromise the manufacturer can provide and maintain their profit margin at that time. They are designed with a life unlikely to equal one years full timing and having an easy life (obviously not counting adventure/expedition/overland in that).
> Car production lines and mass production is better because they have better or more consistent quality control in my opinion.



Sorry where did I say anything was produced in a few seconds.
And my Motorhome was put together between may 13 and may 21 When you add on how long it took Fiat to produce the chassis and engine, that’s not exactly mass production. Also after reading your post, why would anyone buy a Motorhome. It’s strange you say that Motorhomes are only built to last a years full timing when I have a 2 year fiat warranty, 5 year habitation warranty, and a ten year water ingress warranty. I have never thought my Motorhome was hand built, or high quality, but I reckon I will be selling it on in around ten years (if I am still here), and I am confident the new owner will have years of use from it.


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## runnach (Jan 21, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Kit homes are the way to go,factory built,look up german hoof house,fact is vans a mainly bling built for those with rose tinted glasses and not ment to be practical or long lasting,fact that many do is because they site outside folks homes and only venture out for 2 weeks a year to a camp site.



Looking round vans recently , trev looked at a few hobby’s and even with their reputation for quality it was easy to see the ones that had been truly used.


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## Fisherman (Jan 21, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Kit homes are the way to go,factory built,look up german hoof house,fact is vans a mainly bling built for those with rose tinted glasses and not ment to be practical or long lasting,fact that many do is because they site outside folks homes and only venture out for 2 weeks a year to a camp site.



Trev I sold a three year old van this year with over 16,000 miles on the clock and got 80% of the new price as a trade in. the dealer then sold it for 85% of the new price. Thats why we buy new, because the second hand prices for two and three year old vans are too high. My current van in 7 months has done 4800 miles. We are heading out this weekend and the weekend after that. Leaving a van parked up for months would probably do more damage than regular use. Why anyone would pay tens of thousands for a new van then leave it parked outside annoying the neighbours is beyond me.


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## runnach (Jan 21, 2020)

It’s a funny market the motor trade in general, consider in real terms paying far more for some of the old version ,commer vw,ford Thames early Motorhomes than they cost new. The old vw,s are an extremely strong market and has been for years.


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## Fisherman (Jan 21, 2020)

channa said:


> It’s a funny market the motor trade in general, consider in real terms paying far more for some of the old version ,commer vw,ford Thames early Motorhomes than they cost new. The old vw,s are an extremely strong market and has been for years.



Hi Andrew.
Andrew when we first started looking at motorhomes in 2015, we were amazed at the prices of two and three year old vans. We fancied a Chausson which new at the time sold for £45,000 a three year old one was selling for £39,950. We wanted a new mattress and that was £450. Ten year old vans can sell for 50% of new. I have never bought a new car, I buy pre registered and save thousands, but that option is not available for motorhomes. If you are fortunate enough to be able to buy new, I reckon its a better option than buying 2-3 old vans, thats just my opinion, and I know nothing about engines, gas appliances, and all the gadgets that are fitted in motorhomes, so older vans are not for us.


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## Nabsim (Jan 21, 2020)

Some manufacturers warranty will actually say what they consider to be fair/normal use. Not had a new van so can’t say which or if all do only from hearsay. I was told that one manufacture used 30 days as the figure and my admittedly suspect memory thinks this may have been Swift.
That’s where my figure of a year full time comes into the design life of the van.


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## 2cv (Jan 21, 2020)

Buying new cars,  New Car Discount are worth a look, very big discounts there.
Vans do retain value well compared to most cars, after 8 years I've only lost 10% of original price on mine.
Best buy for me was 2cv, £600 30 years ago, now valued £9000!


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## runnach (Jan 21, 2020)

And in 1984 Bill I was selling them new at £3412 otr inc 12 months tax for a main franchised dealer ...I think you have done well, had a touch as they say.and that was a car definitely not mass produced in the sense of robots etc ......old faithful reliabilius....intensive man hours involved produced in Paris by mainly Nigerian workers. I’m told the French workforce was too hard work no idea other than you needed special permission to enter the factory that part is true.


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## Fisherman (Jan 21, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> Some manufacturers warranty will actually say what they consider to be fair/normal use. Not had a new van so can’t say which or if all do only from hearsay. I was told that one manufacture used 30 days as the figure and my admittedly suspect memory thinks this may have been Swift.
> That’s where my figure of a year full time comes into the design life of the van.



no such limitations on our warranty, full time if you like


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## trevskoda (Jan 21, 2020)

channa said:


> Looking round vans recently , trev looked at a few hobby’s and even with their reputation for quality it was easy to see the ones that had been truly used.


Three near me and only ever in years seen one away from house.


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## trevskoda (Jan 21, 2020)

I know a chap who bought one as a surprise for wife,when he arrived home she went bonkers and it was sold a few weeks later at a great loss,some women must have a full dresser to sit for hrs putting on slap,wife worked with a girl who took 3 hrs in morning doing the fake tan,nails hair face paint etc,these type would never think in a million years of using a camper or caravan,hence many sold again after a short trial in summer.


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## Wully (Jan 21, 2020)

Bill I’m sure I seen one of your turds on eBay for a grand.


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## martinmartin (Jan 21, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> What has that got to do with my post.
> You stated that Motorhomes are mass produced, I stated they’re not.
> That has nothing to do with statistics, positive thinking brigades, political folks, or anyone else. As for percentages, they were never mentioned.
> It took roller team 7 days to build my Motorhome, and Fiat a day to assemble the engine and chassis. Toyota  can assemble a car in hours.


Your right about percentages not being mentioned, but expecting problems from 20,000 components sounds like percentages to me.


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## davep10000 (Jan 21, 2020)

From personal experience, i Believe that Japanese campervans / motorhomes are equal to any German make. Its just a shame that they are not officially imported.(Mine is a personal import).
Having been working on my Vantech (JP) motorhome today - its as well put together as a Carlight caravan I had years ago (remember them?).  I once had to remove some cupboards from a Swift -they were held together with staples!. Mine is built to endure rough tracks (4WD) and its incredibly solidly built.

A bit off radar - but anyone contemplating a new (smaller) motorhome  or c/van would do well to consider a Japanese one....


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## 2cv (Jan 21, 2020)

Wully said:


> Bill I’m sure I seen one of your turds on eBay for a grand.



I forgot, my 400/4 was £600 in 1976 but worth nearly £6000 now. I must admit it has cost a bit to keep them mint.


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## tailgate (Jan 21, 2020)

Reading all these posts . My view.
I would expect a company like swift or auto trail who have been in business many years to produce a motorhome that is damn near perfect
Its not down to parts or things like fridges or cookers breaking, they  can't even produce a watertight structure.
I had a 2014 bolero that never went anywhere without something breaking ,falling off,or leaking.
The way it was assembled was terrible ,the joints on the left, were all different to the right side.
How can anyone sell a product in such a state for 65k.
We ,me included ,seem to accept that this crap is satisfactory.
The lunar we owned we called "pond" for obvious reasons. 
Is there ever going to be a quality British built motorhome?


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## 2cv (Jan 21, 2020)

tailgate said:


> Reading all these posts . My view.
> I would expect a company like swift or auto trail who have been in business many years to produce a motorhome that is damn near perfect
> Its not down to parts or things like fridges or cookers breaking, they  can't even produce a watertight structure.
> I had a 2014 bolero that never went anywhere without something breaking ,falling off,or leaking.
> ...



Whilst accepting that some brands made in Britain have a poor reputation, there have been and still are some very good vans made here. In the past Autosleeper made some very nicely finished vans, many of which have stood the test of time. They still make some very nice vans. Autotrail also were high quality though you hear more reports of problems with later vans, I know many Bentley owners who are very happy with the quality of their vans, individually made by craftsmen an not on a huge production line. There are many smaller brands in Britain turning out quality vans, take IH and Moto trek as examples.
It seems fashionable to bash British vans, and some admittedly appear built down to a price, but this is true for vans from elsewhere to.
North American motorhomes generally seem very well made.


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## martinmartin (Jan 21, 2020)

tailgate said:


> Reading all these posts . My view.
> I would expect a company like swift or auto trail who have been in business many years to produce a motorhome that is damn near perfect
> Its not down to parts or things like fridges or cookers breaking, they  can't even produce a watertight structure.
> I had a 2014 bolero that never went anywhere without something breaking ,falling off,or leaking.
> ...


Unfortunately nobody likes a moaner,unless your shafting them.


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## martinmartin (Jan 21, 2020)

martinmartin said:


> Unfortunately nobody likes a moaner,unless your shafting them.


Not wishing to be cryptic but swift (vultures)can sell with all their faults to folk who look on the bright side that accept faults as part and parcel.


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## 2cv (Jan 21, 2020)

***** said:


> I think many people buy British vans because maybe they are ex caravaners and the British van names are known to them, and many Brits do use their vans more like caravaners do, going from camp site to camp site where as mainland Europeans go more off grid and use aires .
> Lately I hear more and more water ingress problems with Autotrails and less about Swift, and to be honest, we do hear more problems with German vans than before
> Even makes like IH which look premium have had problems with coach built models,( so some owners have said)  but as not to many about, we don't hear very much. I know of two with owners reporting gas locker floors falling out.
> None are perfect, but we do hear less problems from most European vans.
> ...



I didn’t realise that IH did coach builds. Certainly look beautiful vans.


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## 2cv (Jan 21, 2020)

***** said:


> The Guys I talked to had I think the model was J ****something or other  when they first come out.
> The * was a number,
> 
> search



Not surprised it’s Sold


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## Canalsman (Jan 21, 2020)

I looked at one of these a few years ago, and whilst it was beautifully put together, the interior was just way too 'busy' for my taste ...


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## tailgate (Jan 22, 2020)

POI Admin said:


> I looked at one of these a few years ago, and whilst it was beautifully put together, the interior was just way too 'busy' for my taste ...


Now owning an IH conversion although nicely laid out. And decent fittings. There are issues with the level of insulation installed in the vans. In some areas hardly any has been put in. In the doors mainly ,people have been shocked to discover just how little there is.


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## trevskoda (Jan 22, 2020)

If you want something done right then do it your self,im happy with my bus.


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## Nabsim (Jan 22, 2020)

People want everything in their van, plenty room, loads of gadgets and all leaving enough payload for a family holiday in a max of 3.5t.

while manufacturers rightly have to make enough profit to continue and develop new ideas something has to give.

this is probably why self builds are so popular, you have to sit down and think hard about what you want and can fit in rather than picking goodies in a sweet shop.


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## Fisherman (Jan 22, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> If you want something done right then do it your self,im happy with my bus.
> 
> View attachment 75828View attachment 75829View attachment 75830


Great stuff Trev, just one problem. Most folk would not have the skills required to build their own van, or the time.


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## Fisherman (Jan 22, 2020)

martinmartin said:


> Not wishing to be cryptic but swift (vultures)can sell with all their faults to folk who look on the bright side that accept faults as part and parcel.


I am more than happy to be one of those simple individuals who look on the bright side, accepting a fault or two as normal.


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## Fisherman (Jan 22, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> People want everything in their van, plenty room, loads of gadgets and all leaving enough payload for a family holiday in a max of 3.5t.
> 
> while manufacturers rightly have to make enough profit to continue and develop new ideas something has to give.
> 
> this is probably why self builds are so popular, you have to sit down and think hard about what you want and can fit in rather than picking goodies in a sweet shop.



That’s one of the reasons we buy 6m vans. 3.5t is possible on a 6m van. But some 7.5 m vans struggle with payload on a 3.5 t chassis. Big vans with small payloads are everywhere.


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## trevskoda (Jan 22, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Great stuff Trev, just one problem. Most folk would not have the skills required to build their own van, or the time.


What happened to woodwork,metal work and general science/electrical at school,maths english history geography are for mummies boys,hence im DAFT.


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## trevskoda (Jan 22, 2020)

All true,i still have all my g/fathers tysac saws the ones with the elephant on the handle & tennon saw with brass back.


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## Fisherman (Jan 22, 2020)

***** said:


> Just looked at the spec on our 6.95 metre Exsis and the payload before extras is not 680/670 kg as I have previously posted but is 730kg
> But the factory fitted extras, such as oven, larger fridge, sky lite etc, do eat into this.
> I think ours ended up at around 500kg


 
Sorry *****, I was not stating this is the case for all larger vans, I have seen some with 500kg or greater payloads on a 3.5 T chassis. But look at our sister vans in the Pegaso range. 7.5 m vans with large garages and 325kg payloads. Its ridicules. If you carried a passenger and to children you would have hardly anything left, and if you added some dealer fitted equipment, even that may not be possible.


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## Fisherman (Jan 22, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> What happened to woodwork,metal work and general science/electrical at school,maths english history geography are for mummies boys,hence im DAFT.



Jack of all trades master of none Trev.


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## Snapster (Jan 22, 2020)

In 2013 we bought a new Autosleeper Broadway FB. We used it a lot, covering around 22000 miles in 3 years, and almost every trip out in the first year or so found me fixing, adjusting or putting back together things that fell apart or broke. AS had the van back for 2 weeks to fix a long list of things that I couldn’t 
Nothing went wrong that stopped us using the van but the most annoying was the kitchen waste pipe falling apart twice, in two different places dumping grey water all over the carpet, at night, in the middle of winter.

Fast forward to Oct 2018 and we bought a new Burstner Harmony Line TI 736.
We bought in on 12th October and started a 2000 mile trip round France and the UK on 13th.
Nothing went wrong, fell off, broke or needed adjusting.
As of today, we have covered 15300 miles travelling all through the year, and apart from adjusting the shower door ( with adjustable hinges) and cleaning the gas jet in the fridge, nothing has gone wrong.
I cant fault anything in the van, its incredibly well put together, very comfortable and keeps us warm in the depths of winter.
I can certainly recommend a Burstner.


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## Sharpie (Jan 23, 2020)

At least one British manufacturer seems not to have a clue about how motorhomes are really used. Just filling up the water tank is done through a valve that's really just the same as a caravan one set up for an external portable carrier, as caravanners use. Want to top up with a water can, no way. Use the hose on most sites and Aires to pop into a proper filler, no way, they assume that you will somehow plug something into their special connector. Oh and the tank is underslung, not even insulated, well that's not going to go well when it gets frosty. Unbelievable.


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## Snapster (Jan 23, 2020)

You could be describing our old Autosleeper. We never really had an issue with the water filler, we spent most of our travels in France stopping on aires where there was a water supply. If just took a lot longer to fill than just with a hose. 
We got round the risk of frozen tanks by insulating both fresh and grey tanks and fitting internal water heaters. 
But, as you say, poorly designed and obviously aimed at seasonal use on campsites, just as you would use a caravan. 
I remember when I had a problem with the van and Autosleepers service manager came to look at the van. It was a year old and we had covered about 9000 miles. He commented on the “high” mileage and said “ it’s nice to see someone using the van for how it was designed to be used”
They really didn’t have a clue!


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## Nabsim (Jan 23, 2020)

Sharpie said:


> At least one British manufacturer seems not to have a clue about how motorhomes are really used. Just filling up the water tank is done through a valve that's really just the same as a caravan one set up for an external portable carrier, as caravanners use. Want to top up with a water can, no way. Use the hose on most sites and Aires to pop into a proper filler, no way, they assume that you will somehow plug something into their special connector. Oh and the tank is underslung, not even insulated, well that's not going to go well when it gets frosty. Unbelievable.


Or has this to do with available payload? Facility to fit an external drum with pump could be good for some wanting to stay legal. I know it seemed a strange option to me when I saw Baz filling his.


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## Snapster (Jan 23, 2020)

Our van came with a flat hose and Whale connector to fill from a tap and an external pump that could be fitted in an aqua roll or similar ( we never used one. )
The system had two advantages over a normal fill system. The water shut off automatically when the tank was full, and you could leave the hose connected permanently if you were on a serviced pitch. ( or, heaven forbid, you could use an aqua roll.)
Definitely designed to be used like a caravan!
I think the newer Autosleepers can be fitted with a standard fill point as well as or in place of the Whale type.


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## Obanboy666 (Jan 23, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> Or has this to do with available payload? Facility to fit an external drum with pump could be good for some wanting to stay legal. I know it seemed a strange option to me when I saw Baz filling his.



I recently bought a whale pump to use with an aqua roll I had from my tugging days. Handy when I’m parked up on a site and cannot be ar-ed to move motorhome to top up water.
Always leave home with full water tank and to date haven’t had to use it, more junk cluttering up the garage lol.


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## Sharpie (Jan 23, 2020)

When I'm parked on a site for a few days I take a 25l ordinary water carrier down to the facilities, sometimes along with the cassette, bungeed onto a lightweight foldable aluminium trolley with decent wheels, not the tiny sort on say a caravanner's special tank. The water carrier is also a sensible rectangular shape, much easier to pack.

The trolley also gets used for e.g shopping, with two fold-up plastic crates, and packs away flat. I may look eccentric wandering around towns, villages and markets with it whilst sightseeing, but that's how I like to do my shopping, not in a hypermarket. And I couldn't carry back say some crates of beer and half a dozen bottles of wine and other things in carrier bags, that would be exhausting.

Back at the van the water gets transferred to the tank through the standard filler using my backup submersible pump which just has some vinyl hose and a cigar plug on a lead long enough to plug into one of my sockets. Since I carry  the spare pump anyway (they are unreliable, this is the third one so far) it cost nothing more than a bit of tube, and some extension wire and plug which I already had. Takes a couple of minutes to transfer. The apparatus coils up and packs away neatly.


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## Snapster (Jan 26, 2020)

Our latest van has a normal filler point. We rarely use campsites, living in France, but when we visit family in the U.K. sometimes we have to. 
But, I would never carry water and waste about like a caravanner. When our water runs out, our waste tank is also full so we drive to the service point ( if there is one) and sort everything out there.


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## landoboguy (Jan 26, 2020)

Having had many issues issues with this Autotrail Imala 734 since buying it new in May, some of which is documented on this forum, Ive just got to North Wales today, to discover the half full water tank I checked I had when i left is empty as the drain tap has decided to fall off on route so no fresh till I botch the hanging pipe.

 And the reverse camera has packed in again.

Never again,


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