# Propane  Lite Gas



## Polly (Nov 8, 2008)

Hia
It's me again

Does £18 sound  OK for a 6Kg LITE refill?
Does £15.75 sound OK for a 6 Kg Propane gas refill?
Does £20.70 sound OK for a 13Kg propane refill?

Do I need LITE as I am a very strong Lass?
I dont carry anything and everything with me.


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## Telstar (Nov 8, 2008)

*gas*

Polly

Its swings and roundabouts with gas.  Personally I buy it from anywhere, you will sepnd more in fuel than what you save on ths price of gas. Unless of course you were going to pass somewhere.

I have the lite tanks purely for ease.  They are significantly lighter, take less effort to lug about and for those desperately near full weight capacity a good idea.

As for price, yes you are paying more.  However, I only use a max of 2 bottles per year so £6 extra isn't going to break the bank.  Infact with petrol prices dropping 92.7p in Barnsley today I'll save more than that £6 this month!

Jon


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## wildman (Nov 8, 2008)

you can fill them yourself for half that. just need an adapter. 65p per litre.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Nov 8, 2008)

wildman said:


> you can fill them yourself for half that. just need an adapter. 65p per litre.



More details please - pretty please


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## Deleted member 207 (Nov 8, 2008)

There are a whole range of adaptors that let you fill small cylinders with autogas. Legal?? I dont have a clue. Just do a bit of homework on the design pressure of the small cylinder before you go pumping LPG into it.

I'm just not sure that all gas appliances run correctly on the Butane/Propane mix that makes up autogas. The legislators and oil companies believe that appliances cant be run on autogas - BUT when I worked for the oil industry, the large tankers for autogas and the small tankers for propane loaded from the same gantry and same piping.


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## lenny (Nov 8, 2008)

Polly said:


> Hia
> It's me again
> 
> Does £18 sound  OK for a 6Kg LITE refill?
> ...



The prices you list are about right Polly, I just installed the lite cos it has a sight glass which tells you the contents of the bottle, dont know how accurate it is though


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## TWS (Nov 8, 2008)

Sorry to hijack this thread, but Im looking to buy a couple of propane 6KG bottles for my M/H, has anyone got any ideas where I can get them from, I live in Durham, also looking for a TV and bracket to fit in my M/H, its got a housing ready but my current TV we had in the caravan is too big, again any ideas. 

Thanks Tom

PS when you talf about refills, where would you go to fill them up ?


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## Tony Lee (Nov 8, 2008)

> Just do a bit of homework on the design pressure of the small cylinder before you go pumping LPG into it.



Yes, homework is right.
Most cylinders are fitted with pressure relief valves to eliminate that particular problem - but that introduces another worse problem. 

Real problem is normal leisure cylinders are not fitted with 80% fill automatic shutoff valves (newer bottles available in the US do have overfill valves fitted), so it is easy to overfill them to close to 100% liquid using an autogas dispenser that pumps liquid in at high pressure. If they are later carried in the boot or even inside a vehicle and the temperature increases, the relief valve will pop and release liquid LPG, and the car can fill up with gas. Open the door and the vehicle could explode.

Trouble is those who advocate such procedures never bother to make sure gullible people do know of the dangers involved. Guess they don't care.


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## maureenandtom (Nov 9, 2008)

Tony, - and anybody else interested,

Yes, these are risks we have to be aware of – and should be told of.   But it's a bit scare-mongering to say “the vehicle could explode”.  Sensational even.   You should say instead, “The effects of any gas leak can be catastrophic.”   Much more moderate and just as accurate.   The proper answer is – don't carry them in the boot.   I know this as “reasonable care.”  Or, don't overfill them.   It should be easy enough to read the indication at the pump.  So many litres and no more!   “Reasonable care” again.

Now, we all carry our gas cylnders in lockers vented to the atmosphere and sealed from the van, yes?    Overfilling is still a risk but then not quite the scenario you give if any leak vents to the atmosphere..   Also, the risk is again small if an inadvertently overfilled bottle is in use and the level is therefore dropping. 

Has an explosion due to overfilling ever happened?   If it has, I can't find an instance.  Can anybody else?   The nearest I can find is an incident in the US where an overfilled cylinder leaked, the gas ignited and a “contributory factor” was that it had been overfilled.   The report I read doesn't say whether the bottle had been overfilled by professionals or by people like us.   Another contributory factor was that the full cylinder had been stored under a barbecue which was in use at the time.   I expect this raised the temperature a bit – and with a flame already there!   Both are unsafe practices in my view, together lethal.

We all know, or should know, the risks of gas.   I've given the instance of keeping the gas in a locker venting to the atmosphere.   We all turn off the fridge when moving the van, yes?    Of course we do.   We have to because all cylinders have liquid gas which will slosh about while we're driving.   If liquid gas enters the regulator, and therefore, the fridge burner, it will expand hugely and cause your van to explode – the gas is already alight.   Really we should turn off the gas at the bottle too.  The ferry companies insist upon that.  After all, liquid gas might get trapped in the wrong side of the regulator just waiting for you to light the fridge or the cooker..   Well, the risk is there but we take care and it must have happened that a van has exploded or burned because somebody drove with the fridge lit, or the bottle turned on, – but I've never heard of it.

It's my opinion that normal, careful-ish people who use the filling, or any gas,  equipment in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions can use this equipment safely.  In any case, it is offensively presumptious to assume that “we” know best    Other people have to be regarded as just as intelligent as we are.

I use the Gaslow system and our van also runs on LPG so I am continually filling tanks.   The Health and Safety rules for filling gas containers are at http://www.hse.gov.uk/cdg/pdf/safusgc.pdf but here is the appropriate quotation:

_Filling
Anyone carrying out the filling of gas cylinders should wear appropriate personal protective
equipment. This may include safety shoes, protective overalls, gloves, and ear and eye protection.
_

Well, I don't wear all that stuff.   So there.  But I do take reasonable care.

Tom


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## Biker Jeff (Nov 9, 2008)

I've thought about using the Calorlite 6K bottles because i like the idea of them being lighter and having a gauge fitted. But as the gas will invariably run out when you are away, and as i can only store one bottle, you have to then hope their is a Calor outlet near you that actually stocks Calorlite. Very few of the Calor outlets actally stock the Calorlite bottles.
I could envisage running out when i am away, and having no choice but to just swop my empty Calorlite for an ordinary steel full bottle.


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## Telstar (Nov 9, 2008)

*calorlite*

bikerjeff, that is always that risk of running out when away from home.  I know that there is no 'calor hire' price difference between the two type of calor bottles, they are interchangable, so the effect for you will be that you may occasionally return to the heavier tank.  My current lites do not have a guage on them and I undestand that the guage is a pressure guage not actually giving a good reading on what is left in the tank (according to the motorhome mags).

I have three bottles, one supposedly for the gas bbq in the garden.  In reality, it tends to be used for rotation in the van.  Ie when 1 runs out in the van, when I get home I exchange it with the one down the garden and then take the empty in my car to the caravan dealer when I'm passing.  However, this is not practicle for everyone, but it works for me.

Personnally you will never see me trying to save a few bob trying to fill bottles from either calor or BP (which I don't use anyway).  

Jon


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## Biker Jeff (Nov 9, 2008)

I think if i had a CalorLite bottle, i would end up renewing it when it still had maybe a litre of gas left in it, because i would know that it would probably run out on a trip and i'd probably not be able to find a stockist. Which would then be waste of gas.
Until all Calor outlets are stocking these Lite bottles, i cant see the point of using them if you only keep one bottle in your van.


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## Polly (Nov 9, 2008)

Hia
Is the calor lite just a lighter bottle?
No other hidden gems?
No other bonus's?
I have 2 bottles so could I just switch over from 1 bottle to the other when 1 runs out.

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Ther is a place near the m6 cheshire where you can fill your bottles if anyone is interested. I haven't done it though.


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## Biker Jeff (Nov 9, 2008)

Yes Polly, the CalorLite is quite a bit lighter than the old steel bottles, 50% lighter in fact, and it has a gauge on as well, although i've not had one yet so i dont know how reliable they are. There is no extra cost to swap them over either.
So if you can store two bottles in your van, then its suitable for you to change over to them.
The cost in my area for the old steel 6K propane is £17 and £20 for the new CalorLite 6K propane. I think this is the only size you can get them in though.


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## Tony Lee (Nov 10, 2008)

> Other people have to be regarded as just as intelligent as we are.



Tom, even if this was true, which it is not, it is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand - which  the recommendation to fill  gas bottles from an autogas dispenser in a service station using an unauthorised and potentially dangerous procedure of using bodgie adaptors  bought on ebay  

Filling a leisure bottle from an adjacent dispenser bottle via a spring loaded manual valve using the manually opened relief valve to determine the correct fill heightand carried out by an authorised person trained to do the job safely - and as you pointed out - by using the appropriate equipment and personal protection is quite safe.

Ditto a trained and/or authorised operator or appropriately designed machine filling the same bottle  from a pumped source that is accurately metered to avoid overfilling - and normally this results in half a kg less contents to make sure.

Filling a properly installed (and I see that in UK at least, the claim is any one can fit them. Hmmmm!) fixed tank fitted with overfill protection using autogas dispensers is also regarded as safe practice because the equipment on both sides of the nozzle is designed for that purpose and the customer has to stand clear and hold a button down to make it work.

The fourth scenario - that of a person of no particular level of training, knowledge or intelligence using  an unapproved fitting and procedure to pressure fill an indeterminate quantity of liquid into a gas bottle is neither approved, legal nor safe.

Tom, your argument fails on one point - that of mistaking intelligence for knowledge. They are just not the same thing. There is no correlation between the two and anyone who assumes that others can follow a certain procedure just because they themselves have done it safely is just plain irresponsible. [BTW Statistically, if you are blessed with average intelligence, then half the population is of lower intelligence]

Yes, motorhomers do usually carry their bottles in a ventilated locker if they actually drive their motorhomes to the sales outlet but if the UK is anything like here, it wouldn't take more than a minute or two at the local swap 'n' go outlet to see that the majority of customers don't carry their bottles home in a nice ventilated gas locker. Maybe hot weather there is a bit problematic even in summer, but if a bottle is filled to 100% liquid, it doesn't take much of a temperature rise to result in the bottle venting. Does it happen often, or has it ever happened? Irrelevant in my view. The rules are there because people with knowledge and authority decided that without safe procedures and regulations to back them up, those without knowledge would be more likely to blow themselves or others up.


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## hymercamper (Nov 10, 2008)

Polly come and buy your gas off me
Rob


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## Deleted member 207 (Nov 11, 2008)

Maybe I should go and edit my first post, I was not condoning using adaptors, just saying that they are out there.

With all the alarm about carbon emissions causing global warming the days of the leisure bottle have got to be numbered - especially as the great majority of them are filled using a method of opening a screw on the top and waiting for liquid gas to escape. 

The purpose built campervan lpg tank has been available for more than 30 years - Westfaila pioneered it with the VW Kombis.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Nov 11, 2008)

***** said:


> That is a very good point about carrying a bottle home in your car after exchanging for a full one
> Gas is heavier than air and will settle in the bottom of your car boot just waiting for you to lean in with a cigy in your mouth



I thought that you'd given up the evil weed


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## Deleted member 2636 (Nov 11, 2008)

The real crux of this problem is "How much gas do you use?"
If you are a heavy consumer then a bulk tank or investing in a proper Gaslow system may well be the answer. If you are like me and use less than 1 x 6kg of Propane per year then it is not worth worrying about.
Its just the money-saving bit that appeals to the ***** in me I expect


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## janeandbob (Nov 11, 2008)

baloothebear said:


> The real crux of this problem is "How much gas do you use?"
> If you are a heavy consumer then a bulk tank or investing in a proper Gaslow system may well be the answer. If you are like me and use less than 1 x 6kg of Propane per year then it is not worth worrying about.
> Its just the money-saving bit that appeals to the ***** in me I expect



We use more than that on the BBQ, dont you use your van baloo.

Did anyone see this in the paper, if you carry an empty bottle in your car, make sure its turned off.


http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/...ers-lucky-escape-liquid-gas-car-explodes.html


                         Thanks Bob.


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## jimmnlizz (Nov 11, 2008)

The three remarks at the end of the article says it all.......... "Further proof that smoking is dangerous to your health!!!!!!!"      JIM.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Nov 11, 2008)

janeandbob said:


> We use more than that on the BBQ, dont you use your van baloo.
> 
> :




I only use the gas to heat a small bowl of gruel and sometimes, for a treat, I have a luke-warm cup of tea - OAP, impoverished etc etc


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## janeandbob (Nov 11, 2008)

We will have to come to a meet, and open the soup kitchen, but its not soup, its a curry or chilly and rice, and you are not allowed warm tea unless it has whiskey in it. tea and coffee is only served when you have had at least 6 cans of beer or a bottle of wine. Bob.


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