# Cam belt change - what's your view?



## GMJ (Aug 22, 2022)

Our MH has a 2017 Fiat Ducato base which has done 25k miles. The cam belt change was due at 4 years I believe.

Given that the Ducato is basically a van and therefore perhaps expected to do more than 5k miles a year, what are your views on changing the cam belt at 5 years/25k miles (i.e considerably less than a normal van would be expected to do in that time)?


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## myvanwy (Aug 22, 2022)

Same with Vdubs. The belts can deteriorate with age as well as mileage so personally, I wouldnt take the risk.


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## Fisherman (Aug 22, 2022)

GMJ said:


> Our MH has a 2017 Fiat Ducato base which has done 25k miles. The cam belt change was due at 4 years I believe.
> 
> Given that the Ducato is basically a van and therefore perhaps expected to do more than 5k miles a year, what are your views on changing the cam belt at 5 years/25k miles (i.e considerably less than a normal van would be expected to do in that time)?


It’s not just about mileage. The cam belt will naturally deteriorate with time, just as tyres and other parts do.
It reminds me of the Clint Eastwood movie were he points his magnum at the criminals head and asks him do you want to take the risk.
Also there are other parts to be replaced not just the belt.
For me the consequences are so severe, that I would change the cam belt.
I understand your logic, but it’s based on a false premise.
You want to enjoy your travels, and not worry that at any second the belt could fail.


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## GMJ (Aug 22, 2022)

I haven't said I'm not changing it but just wanted some views


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## Wooie1958 (Aug 22, 2022)

I wouldn`t risk it Graham, if that`s your recommended change then do it and get the water pump done at the same time.

Fiat used to be 5 years or 60,000 miles which ever came first but it now looks like they`ve dropped it to 4 years or 120,000 kilometers which ever comes first.

Wierdly my father-in-laws Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD is 5 years / 60,000 miles but my Peugeot Boxer 2.8 HDi both of which are the same age and have the exact same engine in them even down to all the Iveco stickers and wiring loom etc. etc. etc. is 10 years or 72,000 miles for the belt change.


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## SimonM (Aug 22, 2022)

See my answer on Motorhomer


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## barryd (Aug 22, 2022)

Thanks for the reminder. Just checked mine and it's five years since it was done, 1996 Peugeot boxer 2.5 TD but it's only done 9000 miles in those five years. I'll get it and the gearbox done on my return over winter.

I gather if they fail it's pretty much game over.


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## mistericeman (Aug 22, 2022)

With the possibility of degradation of the rubber belt from heat/oil/general use... 

I'd change it and think of it as cheap insurance against belt failure and potentially catastrophic engine failure.


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

barryd said:


> Thanks for the reminder. Just checked mine and it's five years since it was done, 1996 Peugeot boxer 2.5 TD but it's only done 9000 miles in those five years. I'll get it and the gearbox done on my return over winter.
> 
> I gather if they fail it's pretty much game over.



I had one go many years ago Barry on a Citroen. The pistons destroyed the valves and the engine was goosed.

I think modern engines are more resilient to this though but don't take my word for it!


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

Robmac said:


> I had one go many years ago Barry on a Citroen. The pistons destroyed the valves and the engine was goosed.
> 
> I think modern engines are more resilient to this though but don't take my word for it!



Ignore the last comment. Just something that somebody told me once.

Quick google search shows that modern engines are just as likely to be destroyed by a broken cam belt.


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## mistericeman (Aug 22, 2022)

Robmac said:


> Ignore the last comment. Just something that somebody told me once.
> 
> Quick google search shows that modern engines are just as likely to be destroyed by a broken cam belt.


Depends whether they run interference (valves intrude into the cylinder where they cause a world of pain) 

Or none interference... (Where the valves stay in the cylinder head and thus, don't cause damage)


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

mistericeman said:


> Depends whether they run interference (valves intrude into the cylinder where they cause a world of pain)
> 
> Or none interference... (Where the valves stay in the cylinder head and thus, don't cause damage)
> 
> View attachment 112014View attachment 112014



That must have been what he was referring to.

Is their a trade off for running non-interference? Or are most modern engines built this way?


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## mistericeman (Aug 22, 2022)

Robmac said:


> That must have been what he was referring to.
> 
> Is their a trade off for running non-interference? Or are most modern engines built this way?


A lot of modern stuff will be interference as it generally allows for better 'Breathing' 
And thus, mpg/performance etc.... Which is important for most manufacturers.


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

My Renault Master has a timing chain rather than a belt which supposedly needs less maintenance.

This thread reminds me that I really should get it changed as the van has now done 135,000 miles or so.


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## Pudsey Bear (Aug 22, 2022)

Ours has a chain, but they can stretch and the slipper can wear out too.


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

Pudsey Bear said:


> Ours has a chain, but they can stretch and the slipper can wear out too.



Mine's just had a service Kev so presumably they will have checked it over.


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## clarkpeacock (Aug 22, 2022)

Robmac said:


> Ignore the last comment. Just something that somebody told me once.
> 
> Quick google search shows that modern engines are just as likely to be destroyed by a broken cam belt.


The valves out of my Qasquai engine when the cambelt failed at 18 months old/45000 miles. Complete new engine, fortunately under warranty! A few years ago now, but a fairly 'modern' 1.5 diesel.


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## Pudsey Bear (Aug 22, 2022)

Not sure it's actually accessible Rob it's in the timing chest.


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

Pudsey Bear said:


> Not sure it's actually accessible Rob it's in the timing chest.



Yeah would cost a fortune Kev and would be just as easy to change it I suppose.


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## Fisherman (Aug 22, 2022)

Bottom line, change the belt, and enjoy your ventures.


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

Robmac said:


> Yeah would cost a fortune Kev and would be just as easy to change it I suppose.



...again though there are ways to check signs of a worn/slack chain. (thanks Mr Google).


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

Also, whenever I have had a belt changed in the past, I've always had the water pump changed at the same time.


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## trevskoda (Aug 22, 2022)

Pushrods were best before the rubber belts appeared which I think is daft, and front wheel drive with inaccessible engine bays & brains.


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Pushrods were best before the rubber belts appeared which I think is daft, and front wheel drive with inaccessible engine bays & brains.



Don't even mention the Dual Mass Flywheel Trev!


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## trevskoda (Aug 22, 2022)

Robmac said:


> Don't even mention the Dual Mass Flywheel Trev!


Yep they cannot think of enuff ways to overcomplicate things for no real advantage, except their pockets.


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## Pudsey Bear (Aug 22, 2022)

Lets get back to horse eh?


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## yeoblade (Aug 22, 2022)

There are about a trillion discussions on this on the various internet Moho forums, enjoy reading, the general consensus is .

Get it done when due , but NOT the water pump which is NOT recommended on the Fiat maintenance schedule at the belt change interval.

Actually the W pump if a bit of a barsteward on the 2.3L engine and has caused people a few problems with it leaking after the new one has been fitted. It did on mine, but I waited 9 years (50k Miles) before I had the belt changed for the first time .


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## trevskoda (Aug 22, 2022)

The belt was the first thing I changed on the IVECO 2.8 because she was 10 years old with 50 thu miles and no history, mind you the engine has a sticker on it saying a reconditioned unit, so maybe new or built that way from new which i dought.


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## mistericeman (Aug 22, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Yep they cannot think of enuff ways to overcomplicate things for no real advantage, except their pockets.


Joy's of manufacturers squeezing more performance out of smaller and smaller engines 
And having to control the forces put through the drive train. 
And having smooth idle etc


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## trevskoda (Aug 22, 2022)

mistericeman said:


> Joy's of manufacturers squeezing more performance out of smaller and smaller engines
> And having to control the forces put through the drive train.
> And having smooth idle etc


Yes my we car is like that, 1150 16 valve engine knocking out 90bhp, it will only go when revved to 3.500 to 5.000, below that no torque and stalls at lights below 2.000 rpm, all is missing is two big white patches on the doors with a number on them, total bonkers for a rd car.


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## Tezza33 (Aug 22, 2022)

Pudsey Bear said:


> Lets get back to horse eh?


It would have to be a horse with no brain (or windows) for Trev

Some Fiat engines have a timing belt driven water pump but not all, if it is driven by the timing belt then I would replace it, mine isn't due for another hear from but it has been standing for a long time so I will change the belt before I use it again, the tension rollers were replaced three years ago so it will be just the belt, I still have the original 2001 water pump


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

Tezza33 said:


> It would have to be a horse with no brain (or windows) for Trev
> 
> Some Fiat engines have a timing belt driven water pump but not all, if it is driven by the timing belt then I would replace it, mine isn't due for another hear from but it has been standing for a long time so I will change the belt before I use it again, the tension rollers were replaced three years ago so it will be just the belt, I still have the original 2001 water pump



I've always had it done Terry. (timing belt driven).

It's a case of 'While you're down there'.


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## GMJ (Aug 22, 2022)

I had already decided to get it done but I just wanted to hear the consensus. Thanks all


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## Fisherman (Aug 22, 2022)

What do they charge for a cam belt change on a Ducato


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## GMJ (Aug 22, 2022)

The Fat Service Centre wanted around £1400 I think including a new water pump but I haven't got the prices locally. I'll update when I get them.


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## myvanwy (Aug 22, 2022)

Definitely Fat service at that price.


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## Fisherman (Aug 22, 2022)

GMJ said:


> The Fat Service Centre wanted around £1400 I think including a new water pump but I haven't got the prices locally. I'll update when I get them.


I have heard inc the water pump £7-800 is the norm.


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## Tezza33 (Aug 22, 2022)

Robmac said:


> It's a case of 'While you're down there'.


That is my personal mantra Rob, the number of times I kept repeating that phrase to aid concentration

my waterpump on the other hand is not driven by the timing belt and it is easy to get to so no need to change it yet


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## Martin P (Aug 22, 2022)

Just had an idler gear go on my Saab. On the water pump/ power steering/ alternator belt run. The rubber belt was 24 years old and still in perfect condition.


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## colinm (Aug 22, 2022)

A friend of mine had a belt go on his Volvo, he had the head off, valves replaced, debris cleared from cylinders. All worked fine after, I suspect many engines could be treated the same, but I doubt you would get a garage to agree.


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## RSD7a (Aug 22, 2022)

Phew.  My 2018 Citroen Relay 2.0 Euro 6, recommended timing belt change @ 96000 miles or 10 years. Just looked at the chart supplied with the van. Happy about that.


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## Robmac (Aug 22, 2022)

colinm said:


> A friend of mine had a belt go on his Volvo, he had the head off, valves replaced, debris cleared from cylinders. All worked fine after, I suspect many engines could be treated the same, but I doubt you would get a garage to agree.



Quite possibly.

A lot of sucking of teeth when the mechanic 'phoned me to tell me what the damage was. I didn't mind though, I hated that car.


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## mistericeman (Aug 22, 2022)

colinm said:


> A friend of mine had a belt go on his Volvo, he had the head off, valves replaced, debris cleared from cylinders. All worked fine after, I suspect many engines could be treated the same, but I doubt you would get a garage to agree.


Sometimes it's OK afterwards... 

Sometimes it isn't... I've dealt with the aftermath of a couple of folks efforts... 

Top end rebuild... 
And short time after catastrophic piston fail (both times on different vehicles a piston has dropped pretty much in half and another big end bearing failure on the cylinder that have suffered valve contact) 

Suspect shock loading from contact.


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## Wully (Aug 22, 2022)

Just done mine all belts water pump and a completes service. I’ve ran all sorts of vans for for the last 30 years and I don’t get too fussy with them just change oil and filters regularly and only fix things when they break keeping away from main dealers. Mostly sprinters and transits. But my thinking with these Fiats is the engine is pretty small at 2.3 so it must be working pretty hard to get that amount of power out of so doing the timing belt is a no brainer for piece of mind.


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## bartman (Aug 22, 2022)

While the car was in for its MOT a couple of weeks ago at a trusted independent, I  asked for a fixed price for the cambelt replacement on the motohome. It's a 2002 Peugeot Hdi 2.0, the price was £457 to include the water pump which I understand is driven by the belt on that engine. I thought that price was very reasonable.


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## Robmac (Aug 23, 2022)

bartman said:


> While the car was in for its MOT a couple of weeks ago at a trusted independent, I  asked for a fixed price for the cambelt replacement on the motohome. It's a 2002 Peugeot Hdi 2.0, the price was £457 to include the water pump which I understand is driven by the belt on that engine. I thought that price was very reasonable.



Very reasonable indeed.


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## Boris7 (Aug 23, 2022)

No matter what you view on timing belts and their life span once you identify an engine as “interference type” you have to be Sure you stay on the safe side.

Simply put if it’s £500 for a belt change an engine will be much more and cause massive inconvenience, if your the type who puts £500 on a nags nose, then maybe ignore the timing belt, but if you’ve got any sense change it.


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## Wooie1958 (Aug 23, 2022)

A local garage which is in the same mill complex as Todds Motorhomes and does a lot of their vehicle work outside routine oil & filter changes did mine.

They can handle larger heavier motorhomes than ordinary garages, mine is 7.5m with a 4.2m wheelbase and a gross of 4,100kg,

£565 for the full timing belt kit, water pump, new anti-freeze and auxiliary belt on a X244 Peugeot Boxer 2.8 HDi.


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## leetori (Aug 23, 2022)

mistericeman said:


> With the possibility of degradation of the rubber belt from heat/oil/general use...
> 
> I'd change it and think of it as cheap insurance against belt failure and potentially catastrophic engine failure.


It’s more likely the metal rollers collapse and the belt skips teeth.


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## Thistle (Aug 23, 2022)

my Crafter is now 11 years old, has a belt plus I had no idea if it had ever been changed so seeing as I couldn’t find a single video in English on YouTube I thought I would have a bash at diy.

It’s really quite easy……


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## Mick H (Aug 23, 2022)

Robmac said:


> My Renault Master has a timing chain rather than a belt which supposedly needs less maintenance.
> 
> This thread reminds me that I really should get it changed as the van has now done 135,000 miles or so.


Personally, I wouldn't worry, unless you can hear "chain slap". I don't anticipate replacing the timing chain, in my Renault Master, during my lifetime !


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## gasgas (Aug 23, 2022)

When the Citroen BX was released in the early 1980's the recommended change mileage was 100,000 km I believe - a 'high' mileage - or kilometerage if you prefer. It was French so it was all Km. A Solicitor bought one and had it serviced at the recommended intervals at a franchised Citroen dealer. At 60,000km the belt broke and the car needed a new engine. Unsurprisingly Citroen said "Non, sur votre bicyclette" so Monsieur Solicitor took them to court saying he had done all the maintenance specified, at the manufacturer's  agent. He won and Citroen was made to change the engine free of charge. They then promptly reduced the maintenance specification for the cam belt change to 30,000 km (I think my numbers are right but if you know better please fill me in).
When I got my current 2009 Transit based motorhome two years ago it had about 30,000 miles on the clock and two auxiliary belts. One had been renewed at some time but the other had not. That belt had hairline cracks all across it, and so it was time for it to be changed. I tried and failed twice to change it because of one particularly difficult bolt I couldn't undo. Then I thought that if I take it to a garage and pay them an hour labour plus the belt, they would do it. So it must be do-able and I worked out that if I removed the air con pump I could get at the bolt and I succeeded in changing it.
This engine, the Ford 2.2 diesel Euro4 I am assured has a valve timing chain, so I have no intention of looking! However if you have a rubber belt, you can usually remove a few bolts securing the black plastic housing around the belt somewhere and inspect it. If it has cracks then change it. 
It depends if you can do it yourself in which case the £80 or whatever it is cost for a whole kit including idler wheel and water pump is well worth the effort of doing. If you have to pay a garage several hundred pounds, phone round a few. I had one vehicle that needed it and there was a huge difference between garages. 
Think of it as the same as changing tyres when the walls are cracked. You can spend lots of hundreds of pounds changing them all or you can risk a blow out on the motorway.
One alternative which a lot of people adopt is: "My tyres are cracked and my cam belt has been there for 60,000 miles and the engine battery doesn't turn over very fast - £900" and trade it for a newer model with everything ticketty boo.
Which in turn goes a long way to justifying buying a used motorhome from a dealer - and do see if you can find reviews of the dealer before buying . . . 

As a last thought, the early Mercedes car engines and presumably commercials, had duplex timing chains. The owner of CAK tanks told me he had a diesel van, one of those with a sticky-out nose, and at 500,000 miles he thought it might need an overhaul. He removed and dismantled the engine, cleaned everything and reassembled it with new seals. At 1,000,000 miles he sold it. A couple of years later he met the buyer who told him that the van was still running, at about 3 million miles. Presumably the driver was held sedated in some secure accommodation somewhere.


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## gasgas (Aug 23, 2022)

_Don't even mention the Dual Mass Flywheel Trev!_
(I can't figure out how to add a quote)
A Dual Mass Flywheel for a bog standard Mondeo cost my soninlaw £1400. That alone justifies the extra cost of buying an automatic based vehicle in the first place. You wouldn't need a new auto box in the time it takes to wear out a poncy jingly-jangly clutch with extra bells and whistles.

All these new garbage computerised cars mean that I am pursuing a 1972 Mercedes car as being one which will outlast the latest fancy thing, and it will be far cheaper to maintain. Further, although I could afford a new motorhome - yukkeroonie, no thanks! I do not need to turn on the heating or the toilet light using my phone while I am in bed. For those terribly difficult tasks I want to push a switch which goes click, and does not go wrong.


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## Fisherman (Aug 23, 2022)

I started my career in the fire service in 1974.
I remember well being told then by some of the old hands that the fire engines being produced then were crap in comparison to those from the 50s and 60s.
I always find it fascinating that when we want to look at better times, better equipment we always look back in time.

The fact was when I retired in 2004 we were using Scanias, the finest fire appliances ever built. 
They needed less maintenance, were more reliable, more powerful, better designed, easier to drive, more comfortable, quieter, less polluting, better fuel economy, than what went before.

And I have no doubt that since my retirement what they are using today will be even better than in my time.
But one thing is definitely the case, they will be far superior to what I rode in in 1974.


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## Tezza33 (Aug 23, 2022)

That's the trouble with nostalgia, it isn't what it used to be


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## Brad (Aug 24, 2022)

GMJ said:


> Our MH has a 2017 Fiat Ducato base which has done 25k miles. The cam belt change was due at 4 years I believe.
> 
> Given that the Ducato is basically a van and therefore perhaps expected to do more than 5k miles a year, what are your views on changing the cam belt at 5 years/25k miles (i.e considerably less than a normal van would be expected to do in that time)?





GMJ said:


> Our MH has a 2017 Fiat Ducato base which has done 25k miles. The cam belt change was due at 4 years I believe.
> 
> Given that the Ducato is basically a van and therefore perhaps expected to do more than 5k miles a year, what are your views on changing the cam belt at 5 years/25k miles (i.e considerably less than a normal van would be expected to


 I would say :     "Ignore servicing advice at one's peril !"
   I have enjoyed had many, many miles on various vehicles, most have not been taken at relaxed speeds, although less furious with my 3.0HPI Iveco Daily conversion with remap. but the few occasions I have blown an engine (apart from my racing bikes) have been when I have extended/ignored a service.  Many years ago the BMW motorcycle was lauded as being capable of "going around the clock", so 100,000 miles plus, however ,,"bikers" in the know, including my friends & I,  had many Japanese motorcycles (Zeds, GS, XS, VFRs) which also clicked past 99,999 miles & we believe collectively that this would not have been achieved by ignoring recommended service schedules.  My two long ownership Toyota Land Cruiser & Hilux Surf 3 .0TD engines have also passed 200k miles (both owned since @ 50k ) with careful attention to oil - 5000 mile oil changes - , belt & bearing changes & I am sure the " indestructable reputation of these engines would never be realised if changes had been skipped as everything deteriorates rapidly once its lifespan has been reached. 
 Indeed, despite the expense of oil & filter changes, as simple as they are & especially at 5000 miles, should never be intentionally extended,  the same applies with the belts & bearings, but consider how you would feel yourself if your vehicle suffers a catastrophic engine failure due to stretching out your vehicles service intervals.........a very expensive result of trying to save a little money.
   Sorry if this appears like a  lecture but keep your service up to date & drive with confidence in your vehicle.


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## UFO (Aug 30, 2022)

This thread made me think as my van is 13 years old with 64,000 miles - Fiat Ducato 100 Multijet.  An MOT and service is coming up so I checked with my mechanic about the timing belt. He called back and said that my engine has a chain.  Did some checking on the internet to verify.  This alledgedly originates from the https://www.fiatcamper.com/ website although I can't find it myself.

_The "for life" timing chain of 100 MultiJet, 160 MultiJet Power and 180 MultiJet Power engines does not need to be replaced.  120  MultiJet, 130 MultiJet and 150 MultiJet engines have a timing belt._

The 100 Multijet is a Ford Puma engine.

Good news for me.


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## barryd (Aug 30, 2022)

Robmac said:


> Quite possibly.
> 
> A lot of sucking of teeth when the mechanic 'phoned me to tell me what the damage was. I didn't mind though, I hated that car.



Do you know how to blow up or destroy a Hyundai i10 by any chance? I bought it in haste about four years ago. Hate it but it refuses to die or even break down.


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## Robmac (Aug 30, 2022)

barryd said:


> Do you know how to blow up or destroy a Hyundai i10 by any chance? I bought it in haste about four years ago. Hate it but it refuses to die or even break down.



I do Barry.

Lend it to one of my kids.


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2022)

No cam belts/valves/pistons were harmed in the making of these engines.


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## Robmac (Aug 30, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> No cam belts/valves/pistons were harmed in the making of these engines.View attachment 112262View attachment 112263



I bought Julie one back in the 80's Trev.

I actually enjoyed driving it as long as nobody saw me.


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2022)

Robmac said:


> I bought Julie one back in the 80's Trev.
> 
> I actually enjoyed driving it as long as nobody saw me.


Good car, hope you did the mods that let them down, vacuum pipe change, fuel pipes and green hose from rad up wing to bleed valve, and all the hose clips on the cooling sys, also a switch on the dash for the fan as the senders gave up the ghost.
Bet you found it handled well & had fab brakes, 130gl was the best, the coup engine could be fitted to them giving 67bhp in standard tune.


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## Robmac (Aug 30, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Good car, hope you did the mods that let them down, vacuum pipe change, fuel pipes and green hose from rad up wing to bleed valve, and all the hose clips on the cooling sys, also a switch on the dash for the fan as the senders gave up the ghost.
> Bet you found it handled well & had fab brakes, 130gl was the best, the coup engine could be fitted to them giving 67bhp in standard tune.



I don't remember doing any mods Trev apart from making a heat shield near the manifold to protect some pipe or other. All a bit vague now. 

I do remember though in the snow at a hill near our house, we were the only ones who could get up it!


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## Picket (Aug 30, 2022)

Chances of it going on your door step are slim, consider the cost of recovery and repair.
4 years or 25k gives peace of mind and for the cost is a no brainer.


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2022)

Robmac said:


> I don't remember doing any mods Trev apart from making a heat shield near the manifold to protect some pipe or other. All a bit vague now.
> 
> I do remember though in the snow at a hill near our house, we were the only ones who could get up it!


Thats true about snow, wifes father had no problem down country getting up sister in laws farm lane, all posties in germany used them as nout else would start or drive in min 25c


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2022)

My belt on Iveco sofim engine was a breeze as inline, once you spent half a day getting bumpers and front panels off.


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## mistericeman (Aug 30, 2022)

Fisherman said:


> I started my career in the fire service in 1974.
> I remember well being told then by some of the old hands that the fire engines being produced then were crap in comparison to those from the 50s and 60s.
> I always find it fascinating that when we want to look at better times, better equipment we always look back in time.
> 
> ...



Some folks are just natural Luddites chap... 

Others just like to dislike what they, haven't got at that point.. 

A very good friend of mine (who I've also worked for for 23 years) is the epitome of this.. 

Wouldn't drive ANYTHING other what he's got currently... 
Bought a XKR and it was the BEST thing ever... 
Another mutual friend turned up in a q8... And it got slagged off for EVERY reason he could think of... 

He's now been driving a q8 for 18 months and nothing else will touch it... 

It's comical it really is ;-)


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## Fisherman (Aug 30, 2022)

R


mistericeman said:


> Some folks are just natural Luddites chap...
> 
> Others just like to dislike what they, haven't got at that point..
> 
> ...


Yes I agree, and to some extent I can see why.

But to offset my original post let me kind of contradict myself.
A few years back we went with friends to the Mercedes Museum in Stuttgart.
And to this day it’s the finest museum I have ever been in.
You are taken to the highest level in a large lift, when you walk out you are greeted by the original first car ever built.
As you progress down the stairs you venture nearer present day, until eventually when you get to ground level you see folk picking up their new Mercedes’ cars.
Quite a trip through time.
we then headed to the restaurant for a great lunch and all for the princely sun of €30 each including the meal with a drink.

This is where my own Luddite tendencies come to play.

If you asked me what cars impressed me most it was the cars from the 20s and 30s, the workmanship was far superior to anything I had ever seen before.
I cannot reccomdnd more a visit to this museum, particularly if cars are your thing. Here’s some photos I took that great day in October 2015.


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## mistericeman (Aug 30, 2022)

Fisherman said:


> R
> 
> Yes I agree, and to some extent I can see why.
> 
> ...


Trust me I'm a frequent flier around both Gaydons motor museum (work) 
And various places like the science and, industry museum in Manchester etc... 

I'm constantly amazed at some of the stuff we built before we had masses of tech to do it 
And J Whitworth was a son of my home town of Stockport... 

Incredible stuff.... But I also appreciate modern developments in all sorts of fields 
And working at JLR for a fair part of my working life... 
They make some pretty trick stuff too...


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## barryd (Aug 30, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> No cam belts/valves/pistons were harmed in the making of these engines.View attachment 112262View attachment 112263



My mates dad had a Datsun / Nissan dealership when we were kids and teenagers.  We loved it as we got to drive all sorts once we were 17. One night Dennis (his dad) picked us up in one of them for our weekly outing to a country pub. We all fell about laughing and made the usual Skoda jokes. Us teens were all driving escorts, minis etc and we fell silent as Dennis gave it the beans round the country lanes as it was clearly a nippy little car that seemed to handle well. Way quicker than a standard escort of the day. I seem to remember it sounded alright as well.


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## trevskoda (Aug 30, 2022)

barryd said:


> My mates dad had a Datsun / Nissan dealership when we were kids and teenagers.  We loved it as we got to drive all sorts once we were 17. One night Dennis (his dad) picked us up in one of them for our weekly outing to a country pub. We all fell about laughing and made the usual Skoda jokes. Us teens were all driving escorts, minis etc and we fell silent as Dennis gave it the beans round the country lanes as it was clearly a nippy little car that seemed to handle well. Way quicker than a standard escort of the day. I seem to remember it sounded alright as well.


Tuned they go like stink, I still have 4 of them hidden away, 105 lux, 2 130gl & a 136 black rapide coup + a shed of parts.


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## trevexess (Aug 31, 2022)

GMJ said:


> Our MH has a 2017 Fiat Ducato base which has done 25k miles. The cam belt change was due at 4 years I believe.
> 
> Given that the Ducato is basically a van and therefore perhaps expected to do more than 5k miles a year, what are your views on changing the cam belt at 5 years/25k miles (i.e considerably less than a normal van would be expected to do in that time)?


Not sure if this is of any use but my 2011 Ducato was 8 years old when I did my first change, at 30,000 miles, no wear on the belt /other components at all.
But as everone says its insurance.......................... I'll do my next one at 60,000....


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## ricc (Sep 1, 2022)

our youngest bought a pug 206  , took it into local garage for mot...   better have a look at cambelt whilst its in.    the workshop was a tad busy so one of the mechanics whipped the cover off in the yard,   they pushed it into the workshop to work on it, wouldnt risk driving it 20 yards.


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