# European Health Insurance Card



## maureenandtom (Mar 6, 2013)

I received my regular newsletter this afternoon.    I don't think this is a warning to have travel health insurance, and it says the problem is being attended to, but maybe something to bear in mind.

Warning as EHICs illegally declined in Spain and Greece

I regard moneysavingexpert as a useful and reputable site but I've heard nothing of this anywhere else.   Maybe just one or two isolated instances.


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## John H (Mar 6, 2013)

Been in Spain since October last year and have not only used their Health Service ourselves (on EHIC) but have met many others who have also; no indication of the EHIC being refused. The Spanish health service remains one of the most efficient, accomodating and FREE services I have ever come across.


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## kenspain (Mar 6, 2013)

I 2nd that John:wave:


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## maureenandtom (Mar 6, 2013)

Hey, I'm just passing on a website address!!

Tell Martin about it!


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## GeoffB (Mar 6, 2013)

Britain, no doubt, will retaliate by refusing NHS treatment to Greeks and Spaniards.  Dream on...:rolleyes2:

Another good reason to avoid these places?


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## maureenandtom (Mar 6, 2013)

Actually, now I think about it . . .

Apart from my trips to the USA, I've never had travel insurance.   Maureen has twice had treatment in France and I've once had treatment in France.  This was in the E111 days and, all three times we passed the documentation to the local CPAM (?) and each time there was a (sterling) refund cheque waiting for us when we got home.  The treatment worked out much cheaper than would have been the case with travel insurance (because of the excess) and even cheaper than the NHS at home would have been – because of the prescription charges which were substantially refunded – I think about three quarters we got back.

(I had shingles and I was told, back in the UK, that the drug prescribed to me in France wouldn't have been prescribed in the UK because of being too expensive.  Don't know about that but it sounds right.)

However, now I think about it.   Quite a few years ago, maybe ten or so, we had a package holiday in Corfu.   Maureen had a little rash that concerned us a bit so we hied along to a local doctor who first wanted insurance details.  “Not got any”, I said.  He huffed a bit and charged ten Euros for the interview and I think there was a five Euro (or so) charge for the prescription and we never tried to get a refund – just paid the small fee.

So, something like the website describes did actually happen – though quite a long time ago. 

Never needed treatment in Spain.  Quite prepared to accept that it's the cheapest and best in the world . . . but, if I'm ever ill again, I'm going to France.


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## Gemani2 (Mar 6, 2013)

*Ehic card*

I'm afraid that the card is being declined in some areas in Spain. I know this as work in travel insurance claims department. Some Spanish hospitals are refusing to accept the card .


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## John H (Mar 7, 2013)

Gemani2 said:


> I'm afraid that the card is being declined in some areas in Spain. I know this as work in travel insurance claims department. Some Spanish hospitals are refusing to accept the card .



It is important to point out that it is illegal to refuse the card. If any EU public hospital says they can't accept it or asks you to sign something you are not sure of then the best advice is to refuse. I think the problem occurs because some hospitals in Spain do both private and public work and they are, illegally, trying to get people to sign up for private care. The problem is compounded by the UK government pushing advice to take out private insurance and not rely on the EHIC. The reason they are doing this, I believe, is because the NHS has to pay for any work done under EHIC but not for work done under insurance. You have to keep your wits about you but if you do there is not a problem.


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## Gemani2 (Mar 7, 2013)

*Ehic*

Unfortunately it is a problem and nothing to do with private v's state care. If the hospital will not accept the Ehic, the insurance is refusing to pay cos it's should be covered under Ehic...policy holder left with massive bill...the insurance will try and help the polcy holder, but policy holder is ultimately responsible for paying the bill until such time as someone else will cover it , when your ill and no one will pay your bills it's a bad situation to be in ..and your helpless when in the hosp when stuck in the middle between hosp/ Ehic/ insurance


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## John H (Mar 7, 2013)

Gemani2 said:


> Unfortunately it is a problem and nothing to do with private v's state care. If the hospital will not accept the Ehic, the insurance is refusing to pay cos it's should be covered under Ehic...policy holder left with massive bill...the insurance will try and help the polcy holder, but policy holder is ultimately responsible for paying the bill until such time as someone else will cover it , when your ill and no one will pay your bills it's a bad situation to be in ..and your helpless when in the hosp when stuck in the middle between hosp/ Ehic/ insurance



I don't follow your reasoning. It is illegal to refuse to accept the EHIC. If a public hospital refuses to accept it it is breaking the law and cannot enforce charges.

You talk about the insurance company refusing to pay because treatment should be covered under EHIC but this implies that the individual had private insurance which entitles him/her to treatment beyond that provided by EHIC (just the same as private v public health care under the NHS). Those people will not lose out. The people who are caught are the people who unwisely signed a paper without reading it and without having insurance to cover that private treatment.


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## kenspain (Mar 7, 2013)

On the Spanish new,s last week they were talking about how long it is taking England and Holland to pay for the treatment that they have done in the  past  i have never known anyone here that has been told they cant use the EHIC here.:wave:


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## Gemani2 (Mar 7, 2013)

*Ehic*

Unfortunately there is no reasoning . We all know it's not right, we all know what should happen. You go into hospital , you present your Ehic, you have insurance , you presume the costs are being met by one of them. Then you get home and are being chased by a Spanish debt collector for the hospital costs...it's hard for most people to argue the case if they don't speak the lingo...and this has nothing to due with any private health care . It takes weeks for the insurers , Ehic and the hospital to work things out but in the meantime the person is ultimately responsible for any costs until such time as someone agrees to pay them.  It's nothing to do with signing any forms to trick people . It's Spain refusing to accept Ehic, nothing more and nothing less. It is happening , it's a night mare for those people affected. In some cases the person leaves a credit card as security until cover is confirmed by the insurance policy ( normal procedure) goes home to a massive bill from the hospital as  the insurance won't cover cos it's supposed to be covered on Ehic which the hospital won't accept.


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## John H (Mar 7, 2013)

Gemani2 said:


> Unfortunately there is no reasoning . We all know it's not right, we all know what should happen. You go into hospital , you present your Ehic, you have insurance , you presume the costs are being met by one of them. Then you get home and are being chased by a Spanish debt collector for the hospital costs...it's hard for most people to argue the case if they don't speak the lingo...and this has nothing to due with any private health care . It takes weeks for the insurers , Ehic and the hospital to work things out but in the meantime the person is ultimately responsible for any costs until such time as someone agrees to pay them.  It's nothing to do with signing any forms to trick people . It's Spain refusing to accept Ehic, nothing more and nothing less. It is happening , it's a night mare for those people affected. In some cases the person leaves a credit card as security until cover is confirmed by the insurance policy ( normal procedure) goes home to a massive bill from the hospital as  the insurance won't cover cos it's supposed to be covered on Ehic which the hospital won't accept.



Mmm! Do you have specific examples with details? Spain is NOT refusing to accept EHIC and has no legal grounds for doing so. Why should anybody leave a credit card number as security for something that is free? If they are asked to do so by anybody then that is ILLEGAL and the insurance that accompanies that credit card should protect them. I find your posts very strange - do you have a vested interest?


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## shortcircuit (Mar 7, 2013)

I am taking you literally, but if it is the same card you would be wise to update which you can do on line.


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## Gemani2 (Mar 7, 2013)

*Ehic*

Reply to John h;   No vested interest, ..strange? Not at all, just advising fellow travellers  to be aware  as, in my professional capacity , am I dealing with this topic, I.e a Spanish hospital refusing to recognise the Ehic, it is unfortunately , fact.  As for credit card as security....if you are taken ill and costs are mounting up it can take hours even a day or two for an insurance to 'confirm cover' to any treating hospital, that hospital has to know that payment will come from somewhere especially if there is no ehic , the hospital will ask for a card details as security of payment until cover is confirmed by insurance..this happens , I deal with this every day . Don't misunderstand the Ehic thing..it is not widespread just one or two places that have refused...sure it will sort it self out, I just feel sorry for the people stuck in the middle, with a large bill for payment


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## Deleted member 21686 (Mar 7, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> hey, i'm just passing on a website address!!
> 
> Tell martin about it!



don't worry about about what some are saying about this post.
It's damn good information that will encourage folks to be wary.

Keep up the good work.


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## John H (Mar 7, 2013)

Gemani2 said:


> Reply to John h;   No vested interest, ..strange? Not at all, just advising fellow travellers  to be aware  as, in my professional capacity , am I dealing with this topic, I.e a Spanish hospital refusing to recognise the Ehic, it is unfortunately , fact.  As for credit card as security....if you are taken ill and costs are mounting up it can take hours even a day or two for an insurance to 'confirm cover' to any treating hospital, that hospital has to know that payment will come from somewhere especially if there is no ehic , the hospital will ask for a card details as security of payment until cover is confirmed by insurance..this happens , I deal with this every day . Don't misunderstand the Ehic thing..it is not widespread just one or two places that have refused...sure it will sort it self out, I just feel sorry for the people stuck in the middle, with a large bill for payment



It may be fact but it is illegal and therefore any charges incurred cannot be enforced. I am still suspicious about your interest in this subject. You should be telling people that they cannot be forced to pay rather than telling them they may incur costs.


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## Gemani2 (Mar 7, 2013)

*Ehic*

Ok..some one posts a thread , (not me, ) about Ehic being refused in Spain, I agree that this is happening, ( i dealt with this in work yesterday) I try to help my fellow wild  campers by sharing a bit of my knowledge as I work in travel insurance claims .

Nothing strange, no vested interest, just sharing knowledge of how insurance works, if someone has Ehic, or if they  don't 


Just trying to help !


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## screevin (Mar 7, 2013)

Just checked my card and it says

"Make sure you have valid travel insurance"

Trying to squirrel there way out of their responsibilities.The EHIC IS MY BLOODY INSURANCE. It's cost me plenty over the years too and I expect it to be honoured.


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## screevin (Mar 7, 2013)

Gemani2 said:


> Ok..some one posts a thread , (not me, ) about Ehic being refused in Spain, I agree that this is happening, ( i dealt with this in work yesterday) I try to help my fellow wild  campers by sharing a bit of my knowledge as I work in travel insurance claims .
> 
> Nothing strange, no vested interest, just sharing knowledge of how insurance works, if someone has Ehic, or if they  don't
> 
> ...




 Can you tell us what advice you would give to a customer who has an EHIC and it has been refused? I understand that what you are instructed to do and what you think yourself may be two different stories, tell both if you can please.


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## John H (Mar 7, 2013)

Gemani2 said:


> Ok..some one posts a thread , (not me, ) about Ehic being refused in Spain, I agree that this is happening, ( i dealt with this in work yesterday) I try to help my fellow wild  campers by sharing a bit of my knowledge as I work in travel insurance claims .
> 
> Nothing strange, no vested interest, just sharing knowledge of how insurance works, if someone has Ehic, or if they  don't
> 
> ...



It is that "help" that worries me. Instead of telling people that they have been subject to an illegal act you seem to be implying that they need to take out insurance. Your comments about "how insurance works" are of little relevance to the scam in question but seem directed towards drumming up business.


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## maureenandtom (Mar 7, 2013)

What a nonsense!!

A reputable website says that our own Dept of Health has reported that some Spanish and Greek hospitals are illegally rejecting EHIC cards.  This has been confirmed by a member who has first hand experience.











It goes on to say that the European Commission are on the case.










I can't understand why anyone wants to make a song and dance about it instead of just accepting it for the warning it is.








If the cap fits, wear it.

I'm a Free Member.   Mods and Admin might like to reflect why I remain so after so many years of contributions.


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## kenspain (Mar 8, 2013)

Gemani2 said:


> Ok..some one posts a thread , (not me, ) about Ehic being refused in Spain, I agree that this is happening, ( i dealt with this in work yesterday) I try to help my fellow wild  campers by sharing a bit of my knowledge as I work in travel insurance claims .
> 
> Nothing strange, no vested interest, just sharing knowledge of how insurance works, if someone has Ehic, or if they  don't
> 
> ...



Can you please tell my what hospital has refused this card I have been talking to my inlaw.s who work in the Alicante hospital and they have never heard of this being done:wave:


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## maureenandtom (Mar 8, 2013)

kenspain said:


> Can you please tell my what hospital has refused this card I have been talking to my inlaw.s who work in the Alicante hospital and they have never heard of this being done:wave:



Are there no laws against identifying individual hospitals?  I doubt if German12's employers would be happy with him divulging cases.  However, I googled plenty of references and then I came across something interesting at the end:


British tourists denied free care by Spanish hospitals | Mail Online

Interesting article re. EHIC

British tourists denied free care by Spanish hospitals | This is Money

Why falling ill in Greece could leave you with a £17,000 bill | This is Money

Travelling with the EHIC | EHIC travel experiences | Apply EHIC

Motorhome Facts :: View topic - Travellers to Spain hit by medical bills.

Although . . . 

While looking up these references, something had been nudging itself into my mind and then I came across this:








I remember something about the E111 and EHIC being for "visitors" and "tourists" and "travellers";    people who became resident becme unentitled to use the "visitor" facilities and, in the E111 days, had to obtain a E112 (or something).  Perhaps, just maybe, a hospital might become suspicious that a "tourist" is a resident after requiring multiple treatments spaced apart.

Just a thought.

Ken - as a resident in Spain, do you rely on the EHIC?  How often have you used it?   

Maureen has twice needed treatment in France and the second time there was something of a pause while we explained we were in a motorhome, travelling.  I'd forgotten that.


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## ricc (Mar 8, 2013)

not sure id place too much reliance on a daily mail article....i look at their website most days...to put it mildly they dont let the facts spoil a good headline....and sometimes their articles are word perfect with the stories in my fathers daily express....it seems to me that they both copy and paste from somewhere else (agency, some pratts press release?) without doing any of their own research..

are any other journalists any better?   can we trust anything in the media to be the full truth.?


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## kenspain (Mar 8, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> Are there no laws against identifying individual hospitals?  I doubt if German12's employers would be happy with him divulging cases.  However, I googled plenty of references and then I came across something interesting at the end:
> 
> 
> British tourists denied free care by Spanish hospitals | Mail Online
> ...



No i dont rely on the EHIC card here but i could do as i still pay taxes in england and here i only use the card when i go to Portugal for the summer, even there i have used this card and was ok.  Sorry to say this but i think that someone or some travel insurance company may have started this.:wave:


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## John H (Mar 8, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> What a nonsense!!
> 
> A reputable website says that our own Dept of Health has reported that some Spanish and Greek hospitals are illegally rejecting EHIC cards.  This has been confirmed by a member who has first hand experience.



But that is not what we are talking about. The member you refer to has said that some hospitals are refusing to accept the card but instead of categorically pointing out that this is an ILLEGAL act, he/she seems to be trying to drum up support for private insurance. That is why I and others seem to be suspicious of him/her.


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## maureenandtom (Mar 8, 2013)

kenspain said:


> No i dont rely on the EHIC card here but i could do as i still pay taxes in england and here i only use the card when i go to Portugal for the summer, even there i have used this card and was ok.  Sorry to say this but i think that someone or some travel insurance company may have started this.:wave:




I started this.  And I'm regretting it.

According to the NHS website you ceased to be eligible to use the EHIC when you moved permanently to Spain.   I guess you could argue about what is permanent;   for example, do you still pay council tax for an address in England or have some such proof that your residency in Spain is not permanent.   But on the face of this extract, your use of the EHIC is not approved by the NHS. Not in Spain, and, I guess (I said, guess!), not in Portugal either.  Perhaps you'd be entitled to a Spanish issued EHIC?   






This is getting a whole lot more complicated than taking notice of a simple warning.  However, I suppose it could have deeper meanings for those of us who live for, maybe, six months or so abroad.


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## kenspain (Mar 8, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> I started this.  And I'm regretting it.
> 
> According to the NHS website you ceased to be eligible to use the EHIC when you moved permanently to Spain.   I guess you could argue about what is permanent;   for example, do you still pay council tax for an address in England or have some such proof that your residency in Spain is not permanent.   But on the face of this extract, your use of the EHIC is not approved by the NHS. Not in Spain, and, I guess (I said, guess!), not in Portugal either.  Perhaps you'd be entitled to a Spanish issued EHIC?
> 
> ...



I pay council tax and keep 6 men in work in the UK i only come back when i have too, next year when i close the company down I will be sorry for the 6 very good worker,s : that have been with me for a long time. When I first move here and ask the NHS about this i was told as long as i pay in I can use this card if i travel to anouther country next year i will gat the Spanish Tarueta Sanitaria Europea  the same as the EHIC so i can use if i have to come back any time.  Please god that never happends:wave:


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## Deleted member 21686 (Mar 8, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> I started this.  And I'm regretting it.
> 
> According to the NHS website you ceased to be eligible to use the EHIC when you moved permanently to Spain.   I guess you could argue about what is permanent;   for example, do you still pay council tax for an address in England or have some such proof that your residency in Spain is not permanent.   But on the face of this extract, your use of the EHIC is not approved by the NHS. Not in Spain, and, I guess (I said, guess!), not in Portugal either.  Perhaps you'd be entitled to a Spanish issued EHIC?
> 
> ...



This is an excellent thread and has highlighted some issues to be aware of even though many out in Spain have not experienced these problems.
The thread has brought out some interesting points well worth reading if you intend heading off in that direction.


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## maureenandtom (Mar 10, 2013)

Thank you MTM and Flip Flap for those kind words.   It's always a problem when people want to deal with a problem by pretending it doesn't exist.   The more you delve into this little problem the more, perhaps, you realise you shouldn't!   But you're right;  I'm realising that this is a potential problem we should be aware of.   So, reluctantly . . .

Ken points out that,resident in Spain, he uses his UK EHIC without any problem in Portugal having been told by the NHS that he could do so.  But then a little research shows that Ken shouldn't even have the EHIC.   The terms and conditions, signed when he obtained it, show that he should have returned it on moving to Spain permanently.  Sorry Ken;  you shouldn't even have the EHIC.  It would be good advice not to use it in Portugal.






All of us who go abroad for extended periods should now know we might be affected.    Especially if we go to the same place year after year.  Especially if we are full-timers.

JohnH is resident outside the UK for longish periods (already close to six months, this winter).  He has admitted to using the Spanish Health Service for continuing care - he regards it as "o_ne the most efficient, accommodating and FREE services he has ever come across" _. Dangerous words!   A little research, which I'm not about to repeat (but John should), shows that he might be classed as a health migrant and not entitled to the EHIC.   Let's say some jobsworth sees multiple use of the EHIC - and perhaps not only in the same year.  This year, and last year, and maybe next year too.  This is possibly allowed, I don't know . . . but . . .

See what could be happening?   Some jobsworth sees this multiple use and in these cash-strapped times says, "this family are health migrants" and says, "you must pay for this treatment and claim it back from the NHS when you return to England."   No good protesting that this is acting illegally;  you need your broken leg setting now - not after you've settled a legal argument.   And, the jobsworth knows the rules;  you might be in the wrong!

The jobsworth might not be in Spain or Greece or Portugal, he might be a chairborne warrior in the NHS in Newcastle responsible for paying the bill ultimately - and in these computerised days he might notice the multiple use, that JohnH is away at the same place in Spain for six months every year, and begin a process of investigation which includes the denial of the EHIC;   perhaps only temporarily while John proves he's still paying water rates and electricity bills in the UK, or however else he can prove he's still resident in the UK and not his over-wintering place.  

Look here - reports in Spain!






Are you resident in Spain visiting England for six months a year or are you resident in England visiting Spain for six months a year?   The sort of argument jobsworths love!  It's the sort of argument JohnH loves!

And then it spills over to other users, who come under suspicion, too.  And then it leads to warnings on Martin's Moneysaver website.

And then it leads to this thread.

Ken, and John - you live dangerously.  Not only that - you're spoling things for the rest of us (Wow!    I never, ever, thought I'd use those words;  hate them - I might use them again!!).


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## John H (Mar 10, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> JohnH is resident outside the UK for longish periods (already close to six months, this winter).  He has admitted to using the Spanish Health Service for continuing care - he regards it as "o_ne the most efficient, accommodating and FREE services he has ever come across" _. Dangerous words!   A little research, which I'm not about to repeat (but John should), shows that he might be classed as a health migrant and not entitled to the EHIC.   Let's say some jobsworth sees multiple use of the EHIC - and perhaps not only in the same year.  This year, and last year, and maybe next year too.  This is possibly allowed, I don't know . . . but . . .
> 
> Ken, and John - you live dangerously.  Not only that - you're spoling things for the rest of us (Wow!    I never, ever, thought I'd use those words;  hate them - I might use them again!!).



Complete rubbish. I am not resident outside the UK. I am resident in the UK. I travel extensively - and legally - to many countries, including Spain. The health conditions that we have had to use the Spanish (and other) health services for have been perfectly legitimately covered by the EHIC (or appropriate travel insurance if they have ocurred outside the EU). A health tourist goes to places with the specific intention of using their health service; we use those services for problems which unexpectedly arise while we are there. There has never been any problem - nor will there be because we are using those heaalth services perfectly legally.

It is not me who is spoiling it for anybody else, it is those who fail to point out that any refusal of the EHIC is ILLEGAL and should be immediately reported to the authorities, NOT to a private insurance company!


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## maureenandtom (Mar 10, 2013)

John H said:


> Complete rubbish. I am not resident outside the UK. I am resident in the UK. I travel extensively - and legally - to many countries, including Spain. The health conditions that we have had to use the Spanish (and other) health services for have been perfectly legitimately covered by the EHIC (or appropriate travel insurance if they have ocurred outside the EU). A health tourist goes to places with the specific intention of using their health service; we use those services for problems which unexpectedly arise while we are there. There has never been any problem - nor will there be because we are using those heaalth services perfectly legally.
> 
> It is not me who is spoiling it for anybody else, it is those who fail to point out that any refusal of the EHIC is ILLEGAL and should be immediately reported to the authorities, NOT to a private insurance company!



I do hope so.


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## John H (Mar 10, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> I do hope so.



Next time, try to establish the facts before accusing somebody of breaking the law.


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## kenspain (Mar 10, 2013)

John H said:


> Next time, try to establish the facts before accusing somebody of breaking the law.



Can,t be doing all this john so no more thread,s on Spain from me any more.


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## John H (Mar 10, 2013)

kenspain said:


> Can,t be doing all this john so no more thread,s on Spain from me any more.



Don't let the idiots drive you away, Ken - your advice on all things Spanish has been very useful to many on this site and I hope it will continue to be so.


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## maureenandtom (Mar 10, 2013)

John H said:


> Next time, try to establish the facts before accusing somebody of breaking the law.



I will.

But, you know, I didn't accuse.  I pointed out how a jobsworth might see things.  And how problems might have arisen.  But your already knew this, didn't you?

Just out of interest, it could be useful, how would you prove you remain resident in England?   I think I would probably try to remain on the electoral roll with, maybe, a relative.  It's something I hope to need to put some thought into - but I haven't;  until now. How would you prove it?


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## John H (Mar 10, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> I will.
> 
> But, you know, I didn't accuse.  I pointed out how a jobsworth might see things.  And how problems might have arisen.  But your already knew this, didn't you?
> 
> Just out of interest, it could be useful, how would you prove you remain resident in England?   I think I would probably try to remain on the electoral roll with, maybe, a relative.  It's something I hope to need to put some thought into - but I haven't;  until now. How would you prove it?



Well, to accuse me of living dangerously and spoiling it for the rest of you sounds very much like an accusation to me!

I can easily prove I am resident in England. I own only one property. It has been my address since 1980. I am on the electoral register at that address. It is my postal address. All of the things I own that aren't with me in the van are in that house. All my bills are sent to that address. It is the address on my driving licence, my passport and all other official documents. It is my official place of residence - there is no other.


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## maureenandtom (Mar 10, 2013)

John H said:


> Well, to accuse me of living dangerously and spoiling it for the rest of you sounds very much like an accusation to me!
> 
> I can easily prove I am resident in England. I own only one property. It has been my address since 1980. I am on the electoral register at that address. It is my postal address. All of the things I own that aren't with me in the van are in that house. All my bills are sent to that address. It is the address on my driving licence, my passport and all other official documents. It is my official place of residence - there is no other.




Thank you.

And Ken.   I made no accusation of any wrongdoing to you either.  I pointed out that you'd been told by the NHS that it was ok to use your card in Portugal but that this was at variance with the terms and conditions of the card's issue.

An emotional subject and it's one I have a suspicion is going to be a growing problem.


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## bktayken (Mar 10, 2013)

*EHIC Card*

Just thought Id come in here to clarify a few points, as a resident in Spain with legal Residencia and of pensionable age I have a Spanish SIP card which gives me full access to the Spanish National Health service ( on becoming a pensioner the UKs DWP  S1 form is sent to you in Spain,with one of the points confirming that you are no longer covered by the UK NHS,this is to stop you being in both systems).
The EHIC card was sent here once the UK recieved back the S1 form stamped by Spain,took 12mths but thats another story.
If I where to travel to any other EU country ie UK  I would use the EHIC card issued to me by the UK NHS as Im not in the UK system.

Just to clarify "mureenandtom" up to approx 12 mths ago the EHIC card for us expats was issued by Spain but the rules changed and now the persons country of nationality not resdence issues the cards ie UK 

With regard to being charged for treatment you need to first make sure you go to a National Health hospital and not a Private one ....if you are not familiar with the area you could easily make that mistake.I think the hospital on the Benidorm TV programme is a private one.Dont sign any forms and make sure the Taxi or Ambulance is taking you to a National Health hospital.And yes the health system is in crisis and they are trying all ways to extract money from us all so be carefull


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## Kontiki (Mar 10, 2013)

I spent 5 days in Marbella hospital last month (wasn't impressed personally with the nursing staff, prefer our NHS) BUT the wife only used the EHIC card & there wasn't any problem. They emailed me results of some tests as I didn't want to stay there & rather to travel back to the UK to talk to my own doc. rather than wait there for a couple of weeks. The treatment in hindsight was probably ok but wasn't happy with the nursing staff, language is a great barrier & they did have translators there but repeated requests to get one went ignored.


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## 666jw (Mar 10, 2013)

Kontiki said:


> I spent 5 days in Marbella hospital last month (wasn't impressed personally with the nursing staff, prefer our NHS) BUT the wife only used the EHIC card & there wasn't any problem. They emailed me results of some tests as I didn't want to stay there & rather to travel back to the UK to talk to my own doc. rather than wait there for a couple of weeks. The treatment in hindsight was probably ok but wasn't happy with the nursing staff, language is a great barrier & they did have translators there but repeated requests to get one went ignored.



I also visited that hospital about five yrs ago with a Stanley knife cut to my finger. I also was not impressed so popped down to the private one at the bottom of the road . 40euros later I felt great and had been treated to a excellent service . There are good and bad experiences/hospitals in every country so lets not forget that. It's nice to know there's private a+e 's in every country . It's up to the individual, and size of the problem. There should however always be a choice . Isn't that one small benefit of being in the eu ?


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## Gemani2 (Mar 10, 2013)

*Ehic*

O.M.G. !!!!!   When I joined 'wild camping' I hoped ( and thought) that it was full of like minded people willing to give help and advice to others.

I see a post about a Spanish hospital refusing to recognise/ accept the Ehic. I thought to myself.."I know about this cos I'm dealing with it at work." So I post a clarification. ...That , yes it's true, and gave what I thought was a brief couple of words to explain how Ehic and travel insurance work in conjunction with the other . Thought it may be helpful in case any one finds themselves in the same situation . 

And what do I get ...I get accused of posting a 'suspicious thread' and am accused of having a vested interest in travel insurance! ( pages 1-3 of this thread)

If I posted a thread about wheel bearings for my camper and someone replies I would thank the poster and respect the info they gave me..I certainly would not accuse them of posting a suspicious thread of of having a vested interest in the wheel bearing company.

There seems to be some members who have replied  to this thread that cannot seem to accept the facts shouting 'it' s illegal it's illegal blah blah' ....if feel that I not only have to justify the advice I post , but also have to justify why I posted it.

So here we go... I am by nature a helpful considerate person, which is why I do the job I do, I deal with travel insurance claims and AM NOT employed by any travel insurance company. I deal with stuff that would make your toes curl, and stuff that would break your heart into a million pieces when lives are torn apart by medical emergency s abroad..I also deal with situations where there is no life left,repatriating bodies not people . 

I will not name the hospital as I'd get the sack.

I am sorry to disappoint certain posters that I am not employed by a travel insurance company and therefore have no vested interest but I am flattered that he thinks I am powerful enough to rally you all into buying travel insurance, really???? Get a grip!  

I don't give two hoots if anyone's buys travel Insurance or not..if anyone is foolish enough to think they don't need it fine..no skin off my nose...but as I'm a helpful considerate person, Il be first in line with a ruddy great plaster when a medical situation turns round and bites you on the b*m! 

Is it that some posters won't accept the info r.e. refusal of the Ehic because perhaps,  just perhaps, on this occasion I respectively know more about it then they do! 

Do they  think, that in the world we live in, that, if it's illegal it can't happen? 

To coin a phrase of the 60' ....S**T HAPPENS...get over it man and move on

P.s., when I'm in work this week I was going to get some updates on the situation and post the info here, if and when it resolves itself and how, but I feel bullied into probably not posting anything  on this forum again in case I have to justify 'trying to help' 
Sent from my iPad


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## maureenandtom (Mar 10, 2013)

Please don't let it put you off.    All advice and information is welcome and especially welcome from somebody "in the know".   Everyone here would feel it badly if this one thing stopped you posting here.


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## John H (Mar 10, 2013)

Gemani2 said:


> I don't give two hoots if anyone's buys travel Insurance or not..if anyone is foolish enough to think they don't need it fine.
> 
> Do they  think, that in the world we live in, that, if it's illegal it can't happen?



You don't give two hoots yet you say that people should have private insurance in the EU?

Illegal things happen but the way to deal with them is to report it to the appropriate authorities, not to say "you should have had private insurance".

You may be on the level; I don't know you. All I know is that you seemed in your first post to be directing people towards travel insurance instead of pointing out (as indeed the Martyn Ledis website did) that what you really need to do is to keep your wits about you and not sign any document you cannot understand.


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## John H (Mar 10, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> As does the Card if you have a quick look at it. I agree it should be enforced properly but I didn't get the vibes that you have from Gemani's post.



The card says you should have valid travel insurance (which covers areas beyond medical insurance). It also makes it clear that it is not valid for private treatment, which is where the scam that appears to be operating in some private Spanish (and maybe Greek, I don't know) hospitals comes in. And it is important to stress that the refusal to accept the EHIC IS a scam. It is also important to stress that it appears to be operating in only a few Spanish hospitals. Those of us who spend a lot of time here in Spain have not come across it. As Nick Ross, might say, don't have nightmares - just keep your wits about you.


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## Gemani2 (Mar 10, 2013)

*Ehic*

Is it me losing the plot here?????


I am not going to waste precious time on this anymore...sorry folks, no,updates from me anymore..


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## maureenandtom (Mar 10, 2013)

Oh dear, John.  You never can let go, can you?

The point that's starting to come out is that not all EHIC use is genuine use.  Leading perhaps to officialdom, here and abroad, examining the use a bit more carefully.  This could well be how the stories began.  It's no good burying your head in the sand proclaiming the illegality.  The European Commission is on the case.  Not much we here, on the ground, can do about it.  Not when we're sick and need the treatment NOW.  Getting bolshy with those treating us will just lead to them not treating us.

I think you're probably one of those people who used to put brown envelopes unopened behind the clock in case they contained something unpleasant.


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## Gemani2 (Mar 10, 2013)

*Ehic*

John H
*Copied from website:*
"Do I need an EHIC if I have travel insurance?
While the EHIC will provide some cover, there is no such thing as EHIC travel insurance.
For example, the EHIC will not cover you for repatriation to the UK if your illness or accident is very serious, which alone can cost tens of thousands of pounds. 
So while your European Health Insurance Card is a necessary addition to your travel wallet, it is crucial that you are also covered with the right travel insurance policy, whether this is a single trip or multi-trip package.
EHIC plus travel insurance is the safest and only option for European travellers."

i don't know you John but I sincerely hope that you are never in a medical emergency and need to be repatriated, so in the nicest possible way in a manner that does not sound suspicious or offensive , yes I am hoping , advising , that everyone has travel insurance, not for any underhand reason, just because I would not like any of you to suffer because I have seen the consequences ..in case anyone's wondering..about 25k for air ambulance not including other costs


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## John H (Mar 10, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> Oh dear, John.  You never can let go, can you?
> 
> The point that's starting to come out is that not all EHIC use is genuine use.  Leading perhaps to officialdom, here and abroad, examining the use a bit more carefully.  This could well be how the stories began.  It's no good burying your head in the sand proclaiming the illegality.  The European Commission is on the case.  Not much we here, on the ground, can do about it.  Not when we're sick and need the treatment NOW.  Getting bolshy with those treating us will just lead to them not treating us.
> 
> I think you're probably one of those people who used to put brown envelopes unopened behind the clock in case they contained something unpleasant.



I see you are following your usual pattern of claiming that people you disagree with are saying things they never said. I am not advocating burying your head in the sand. I am not advocating getting bolshy with those treating us. I am definitely NOT the kind of person who puts brown envelopes behind the clock. If you wish to be led down a path that means you go along with scams and end up paying money unecessarily, that is up to you. There are some of us on here who have a bit more nouse than that. I might point out here that I am 65, I have travelled extensively and I have survived so far by keeping my wits about me and not going along with scams.


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## John H (Mar 10, 2013)

Gemani2 said:


> John H
> *Copied from website:*
> "Do I need an EHIC if I have travel insurance?
> While the EHIC will provide some cover, there is no such thing as EHIC travel insurance.
> ...



People must make up their own minds about what cover they need. Personally, I am not bothered about repatriation. If i am taken ill in Spain I am quite happy for the local health system to take care of me. If others think they need repatriation cover then that is up to them. My point is that any refusal by a public hospital in Spain to accept the EHIC is illegal and needs to be resisted, not gone along with. This has nothing whatever to do with repatriation.


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## jamesmarshall (Mar 10, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> Oh dear, John.  You never can let go, can you?
> 
> The point that's starting to come out is that not all EHIC use is genuine use.  Leading perhaps to officialdom, here and abroad, examining the use a bit more carefully.  This could well be how the stories began.  It's no good burying your head in the sand proclaiming the illegality.  The European Commission is on the case.  Not much we here, on the ground, can do about it.  Not when we're sick and need the treatment NOW.  Getting bolshy with those treating us will just lead to them not treating us.
> 
> I think you're probably one of those people who used to put brown envelopes unopened behind the clock in case they contained something unpleasant.



No, That'll be me.


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## t&s (Mar 10, 2013)

*its ilegal according to the eu to refuse the card*



maureenandtom said:


> I received my regular newsletter this afternoon.    I don't think this is a warning to have travel health insurance, and it says the problem is being attended to, but maybe something to bear in mind.
> 
> Warning as EHICs illegally declined in Spain and Greece
> 
> I regard moneysavingexpert as a useful and reputable site but I've heard nothing of this anywhere else.   Maybe just one or two isolated instances.



dont listen to SCARE MONGERS


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## sean rua (Mar 10, 2013)

I think folk have tried to be helpful with this thread, but have opened up a can of worms and also put the cat among the pigeons and blown the cover of a lot of dodgy dealers who regularly hide away in Spain.

That could be one reason for all the pointless heat, imo. Either that, or some folk are extremely naive, which, come to think of it, wouldn't surprise me much. 

I think I received the same Martin Lewis buletin as maureenandtom. Though only giving it a quick perusal, my conclusion was that things may be tightening up ( especially as Spain, Greece, UK, Portugal, and Ireland are all broke and on the way to being bust). I also noted that Lewis recommended getting travel insurance as well as this card.

Now, I would say that it is patently obvious that just bc something is illegal doesn't mean it doesnt or won't happen. Authorities the world over are notorious bstds for trying to impose bull**** redtape, and also for wheedling out as much "coffee money" as they can from their victims. The more helpless the punter is, the bigger their advantage is, and by God take advantage they will, given half a chance!

 The medical profession, just like the legal profession, is riddled with crooks who prey on the vulnerable.
 'Tis no good throwing the hands up in the air and saying 'tis illegal and this cannot be; the truth is, as pointed out earlier, **** happens.

So that's it : beware.

Btw, all insurance is bad news too. Basically, it is yet another money-making racket that's used by the likes of bankers to generate revenue.
As ever, the punters hit back and try fiddle as much as they can. Then, we get silly TV programmes exposing the "shock/horror" of it all. Same old, same ol'.

OK, some smart guys are ahead of the game, but, in the main, the punters, ie. us, the general public, pay for the jewson lot.
Simple capitalist economics. It ain't right, but it is what happens.

--

Gemani2,
             I'm only about 18months on this here forum, but I learnt early on in the game that there's some right counts about, and sometimes your best efforts will NOT be appreciated, and, in fact, you'll be just as likely to get grief and abuse rather than a fkn blue peter badge. 

So stick with it, but take a lot of these clowns with a pinch of salt, if I were you.

Btw, several of my family live in Spain, and, though I refuse to go visiting there, I know that a sizeable proportion of the ex-pat community ( Brits, irish, germans, whatever) are dodgepots, mostly dependent on the core trade of drugs, which itself is another of these things that goes on , despite being illegal.

I wouldn't mention any of this, but the cat is already out of the bag with this thread. You realise, of course, that the rulers have folk trawling all these fora looking for leads. That's another reason why 'tis sometimes best to keep stum.

Stay well, bc being ill ain't no good at all.


sean rua.


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> And you are prevaricating.
> 
> http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums...opean-health-insurance-card-6.html#post291560
> 
> Can you deny this? No reply as yet.



No prevarication - on reading back through those two posts, I should have said private medical insurance in the first one because that is what was being talked about.


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Perhaps your assumption that Gemanic2's integrity was compromised was just as inaccurate as your statement ?



Never said anything about integrity being compromised. Simply said that if someone's first reaction on posting about a scam is that people should seek private insurance rather than reporting it to the police, EHIC, the health Service or any one of a number of other more appropriate authorities then I ask myself why? If you don't then that is up to you.


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## maureenandtom (Mar 11, 2013)

John H said:


> Never said anything about integrity being compromised. Simply said that if someone's first reaction on posting about a scam is that people should seek private insurance rather than reporting it to the police, EHIC, the health Service or any one of a number of other more appropriate authorities then I ask myself why? If you don't then that is up to you.



Not true, John.  Gemani2's first reaction was not that people should seek private insurance.  It was this:



Gemani2 said:


> I'm afraid that the card is being declined in some areas in Spain. I know this as work in travel insurance claims department. Some Spanish hospitals are refusing to accept the card .



Germani2.   I apologise for you being continually misquoted.    John does this all the time - it need not be taken seriously.


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> Not true, John.  Gemani2's first reaction was not that people should seek private insurance.  It was this:
> 
> 
> 
> Germani2.   I apologise for you being continually misquoted.    John does this all the time - it need not be taken seriously.



Very well, then - his second post. And you should know all about misquoting people!


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> It is up to me, correct. It is up to others to decide if they think you questioned Gemanic2's integrity also.



Of course, I questioned him - that is obvious. And there were very good reasons for questioning him. But I don't know him and cannot possibly comment on his integrity.


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> I know what I think and others will decide for themselves too.



I hope so - which is my entire point. Be healthily sceptical about ALL advice and keep your wits about you!


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## Robmac (Mar 11, 2013)

John H said:


> I hope so - which is my entire point. *Be healthily sceptical about ALL advice and keep your wits about you!*



More and more so in this day and age I am afraid!


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> You should try it.



Still eating the pies?


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## maureenandtom (Mar 11, 2013)

No, John.  Not his second, nor his third.  Nor at all.  Germani2 has not, in this thread, said that people should seek private insurance.

Germani2 deserves an apology from you and so does the site for your attempt to mislead it.

_"And you should know all about misquoting people!"_   No, John, never knowingly or deliberately done it.  However, I learn from the master.


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## runnach (Mar 11, 2013)

I think this is a useful thread, to put one on ones guard, and I see no harm in Maureenandtoms or germanis postings.

whilst refusal of a EHIC may be illegal, it doesnt help anyone who needs urgent attention and I would hope the government are conversing with their continental counterparts to seek remedy.

Germani spared you technical jargon, but basic principals of any insurance in this country at least are "non contributory clauses"  and " subrogation" check it out if it interest you without expanding here.

I see the situation best explained by use of two analogies.

EHIC is similar to act only insurance indemnifies the minimum for more comprehensive cover, then you need travel insurance.

If you sell your motorhome, would you release it without knowing who was paying you and the funds were non returnable ? perhaps that is the attiude of the hospitals, ?

channa


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## Kontiki (Mar 11, 2013)

I can't understand why somebody who is only trying to provide information is getting so much hassle. In my case when I had to call the emergency services to get help & was taken to a hospital I had no idea if we would have to pay or not, but in an emergency it's not the most important thing on your mind. 

In future we would hopefully be more aware, one thing we now do is make a mental note of where we are, trying to get the ambulance to find us when we only had a rough idea of where we were. Giving GPS co-ordinates didn't help that much, thanks to the local police who found us then gave the ambulance directions.


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> No, John.  Not his second, nor his third.  Nor at all.  Germani2 has not, in this thread, said that people should seek private insurance.
> 
> Germani2 deserves an apology from you and so does the site for your attempt to mislead it.
> 
> _"And you should know all about misquoting people!"_   No, John, never knowingly or deliberately done it.  However, I learn from the master.



I refer you to his second post and my reply to it. No attempt to mislead on my behalf. As for you not misquoting - well, you have misrepresented me big-time on this thread in your attempt to pretend that I am doing something illegal - but that is what you normally do, so I am not surprised.


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> What an idiotic response, you are up against it obviously before you have resorted to cryptic playground posts. Like your verbal fencing partner you wear blinkers when it suits your own ends.



So it is you! welcome back


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

:lol-053:





Flip Flap said:


> Pies? Back? Are you covering your trail for any particular reason?
> 
> You are wrong accusing Gemanic2 and are wriggling like a stuck pig. All your long winded nonsense has gone now so you revert to the playground just like your friend the Hickey of The Express clone.



:lol-053:


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## maureenandtom (Mar 11, 2013)

John H said:


> I refer you to his second post and my reply to it. No attempt to mislead on my behalf. As for you not misquoting - well, you have misrepresented me big-time on this thread in your attempt to pretend that I am doing something illegal - but that is what you normally do, so I am not surprised.



Done so.   It provides no clarification.  I could reproduce it.  I know you'd like me to do so.  

You were and are a politician.   You will not let go this particular bone.   I recognise your intention is to make as much confusion as possible;  Let's be clear.  Germani2 has not, at least in this thread, reacted with any recommendation that anyone here should seek private insurance. Not in his second post and not in any of his posts.

Your technique doesn't vary.  You won't get tired of it.    You won't get tired because your intention was never to help along this thread;  it was to disrupt it.  As it so often is.  You don't believe the things you say - you want only to provoke a reaction.  You will misquote somebody and wait smugly for the reaction.   You hope to get the thread down to the level of, "you said, I said, you said".   It's not clever.  Or where I come from they would say you are indeed clever;  they'd say, "He's a bit clever, that one".   But we know what they really mean, don't we?

I invite Mods and Admin to look again at your conduct in this thread.   You are a troll.   Mostly your activities are amusing;  this time you have wounded somebody to the point where he might not post again.  And this poster has an "in" with, and has knowledge of, the insurance industry.  He could be a loss to us.  You have already lost us some valuable posters, one springs to mind right now and there are others.   

You make an assertion that I have pretended that you are doing something illegal.    It's there, above.   Nonsense.   But you already know that, don't you?   It's your intention only to make me deny it.  While I'm doing that, the point of the thread gets forgotten.   You're a bit clever, John.  A bit too clever.  Like they'd say where I come from.


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

maureenandtom said:


> Done so.   It provides no clarification.  I could reproduce it.  I know you'd like me to do so.
> 
> You were and are a politician.   You will not let go this particular bone.   I recognise your intention is to make as much confusion as possible;  Let's be clear.  Germani2 has not, at least in this thread, reacted with any recommendation that anyone here should seek private insurance. Not in his second post and not in any of his posts.
> 
> ...



I am used to your nonsense insults so I won't bother to respond to them. I will simply say that I have made the point I wished to make. Those who want to see will see and hopefully benefit from it; those who don't, won't.


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> You have intimidated a person who was giving us the benefit of his/her insider knowledge. This was under the pretence of being some kind of press hound.
> 
> It was pathetic bullying of someone who expressed unwillingness to join in your stupid game. You were on an ego trip and when your ego was punctured by some irrefutable truths you reacted like a child. That was petulant and , well, childish.



If you wish to let information go unchallenged then that is up to you. When I see something that doesn't look right, I question it. If the person who posted the original statement then throws his toys out of the pram instead of addressing the question then that tells me something. I could equally (as could Ken) say that we were intimidated by nonsense claims and even accusations of acting illegally but if you are sure of your argument then you don't let things like that divert you. 

Btw, I am intrigued - when did I ever pretend to be "some kind of press hound"?


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## John H (Mar 11, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> ................. I can't be arsed just now.



Well, there's something we can both agree on!


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