# Any advise please?



## JonSue (Jan 21, 2022)

I have 2 100 amp batteries connected and 1 2000 watt inverter but I can't boil a small kettle for a cup of tea. The inverter just starts Beeping after about a minute and the kettle is just tepid. Testing both batteries show 12.8 v Help


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## Robmac (Jan 21, 2022)

A kettle uses an average of 1800W but the startup wattage may be higher than 2000.

Do you know the wattage of the kettle?


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## Robmac (Jan 21, 2022)

This may help;









						What Inverter Size Do I Need to Run a Kettle? - portablesolarexpert.com
					

A kettle cannot boil water properly without enough power. Ensure your inverter is the right size to run it.




					www.portablesolarexpert.com


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## Lee (Jan 21, 2022)

It's a lot slower but at least it will work, buy a travel kettle it uses 800 watts.
I have one in the van and it works fine on a 1500watt inverter.


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## trevskoda (Jan 21, 2022)

Yes a 700w kettle which i have works, but would it not be better heating a tin kettle on gas and so not hammering the batteries with such a draw.


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## barryd (Jan 21, 2022)

My thoughts exactly Trev. The OP may have a good reason for trying this but it would seem to me that for all the good uses an invertor can be used for a kettle does not seem one of them. I also expect Rob is on the money. It will be too much power when it starts to boil.


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## trevskoda (Jan 21, 2022)

barryd said:


> My thoughts exactly Trev. The OP may have a good reason for trying this but it would seem to me that for all the good uses an invertor can be used for a kettle does not seem one of them. I also expect Rob is on the money. It will be too much power when it starts to boil.


Yes most big kettles are around 2500/2800 w and would require a 3500 output inverter which would kill a single battery dead maybe even two.
And the feed cables would have to be as thick as an elephants trunk to carry the juice.


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## mistericeman (Jan 21, 2022)

We used a 900w kettle (along with a microwave/slow cooker for 5 years or so, in our all electric cooking transit via a 3000 watt inverter/3 x 100ah batteries etc


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## jagmanx (Jan 22, 2022)

But make sure the connection are up to it
OK a bit slower but will do if you do not want to use gas.

Warning
I over used one in a car and nearly flattened the battery
It would not start but we wer on a slight slope so a bump start worked
Travel kettles use at least 10 amps but that is OK for a short period  and better than 12V to 240v and mega amps


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## JonSue (Jan 22, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Yes a 700w kettle which i have works, but would it not be better heating a tin kettle on gas and so not hammering the batteries with such a draw.


The problem with that is in Devon we can't buy 7kg gas anywhere! Calor are blaming XCovid for a shortage of bottles to refill


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## JonSue (Jan 22, 2022)

Thank you everyone for your kind advise .On the hunt now for a travel kettle


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## JonSue (Jan 22, 2022)

Robmac said:


> A kettle uses an average of 1800W but the startup wattage may be higher than 2000.
> 
> Do you know the wattage of the kettle?


Thank you for your reply. Whoops Iv'e tried it now with a 600w travel kettle but still no joy! Do you think it's both batteries are  deceased they are reading 12.8 on a multimeter. I have another one reading 14.7 attached to a solar panel


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## Pauljenny (Jan 22, 2022)

Are you stuck with 7 kg gas bottles ? Only the one.?
That might be ok for. Weekend van or regular use of campsite hook ups.
If you want to use your van more, especially wilding...

You might be looking at refillable gas bottles.
You can get Gaslows or Gas-its at a discount on here


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## merl (Jan 22, 2022)

JonSue said:


> Thank you for your reply. Whoops Iv'e tried it now with a 600w travel kettle but still no joy! Do you think it's both batteries are  deceased they are reading 12.8 on a multimeter. I have another one reading 14.7 attached to a solar panel


If you're using an inverter with huge loads like your kettle then your batteries need to be top notch.
Assuming you're fully charging your batteries between each attempt do the following:
Using the 600W kettle.
 Connect your voltmeter to the batteries and leave the meter connected while you run the kettle, monitor the voltage readings and note the start voltage and the end voltage, ie when the inverter stops working. Also the time between start and finish.
Do the same again but this time connect your meter at the 12V + and - terminals at the inverter.
Report back.


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## Phantom (Jan 22, 2022)

Which inverter do you have?


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## JonSue (Jan 23, 2022)

Phantom said:


> Which inverter do you have?


I Have a 1000 watt Pure syne wave from Machine Mart and a 2000 watt from I think a little place called China!


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## JonSue (Jan 23, 2022)

merl said:


> If you're using an inverter with huge loads like your kettle then your batteries need to be top notch.
> Assuming you're fully charging your batteries between each attempt do the following:
> Using the 600W kettle.
> Connect your voltmeter to the batteries and leave the meter connected while you run the kettle, monitor the voltage readings and note the start voltage and the end voltage, ie when the inverter stops working. Also the time between start and finish.
> ...


Hi Merl, I am on the case and will get back probably tomorrow Thanks x


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## trevskoda (Jan 23, 2022)

The one from china will be advertised as 2000w for a split second and more like 500w continues, I have a soft start smart nikki which is rated at 600w but in fact can only give 400w constant use.


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## wildebus (Jan 23, 2022)

JonSue said:


> Thank you everyone for your kind advise .On the hunt now for a travel kettle


If you are not fitted with a pace-maker, then I would suggest you also consider an Induction Hob rather than a kettle. 

You will be able to boil a kettle of water on an induction hob as fast as with a kettle of the same power.  A stove-top kettle that works on an induction hob will work on a gas hob just as well (I use the same collapsible kettle on both), and you will also have a device that givess you much more flexibility.
I actually carry a pair of 500W Portable ones and can take them outside to use under the awning as well as inside the Motorhome.

Something to be aware of though ... almost all induction hobs work by cycling through full power and off to average the power selected. so if you get a 1000W hob and set it to 500W, you will still need an inverter capable of delivering 1000W.  (my 500W ones are a maximum of 500W)


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## Turtletim (Jan 24, 2022)

JonSue said:


> I have 2 100 amp batteries connected and 1 2000 watt inverter but I can't boil a small kettle for a cup of tea. The inverter just starts Beeping after about a minute and the kettle is just tepid. Testing both batteries show 12.8 v Help


First thing i'd check is the power requirements of the kettle. If its exceeding the output of the inverter that will cause an alarm. Next i'd check size of the cables from battery to inverter. Volt drop is a real problem on 12v(power being used to warm cables), particularly at higher currents, you may find even though volts are high leaving battery, they arrive low enough at inverter to cause a low voltage trip. I run a similar rig with 1400w draw microwave and need at least 25mm tails and feeds from split charge main alternator to carry the 116 amp (1400/12) required, and thats splitting the power from main , aux batts & alternator & solar input, and assuming I can keep voltage from dipping below 12v.  Also most pure leisure batteries are not designed to supply high currents, they have higher internal resistances therefore also suffer from volt drop. Check voltage at inverter input when under load.  I get over this by always running the engine when microwave is on. Be real careful with running such high loads, the currents at 12v are so massive , fire is a real risk due to stuff melting. Make sure all cables and accessories are properly specced for the current and everything is super tight, appropriately fused and regularly inspected for overheating. If in any doubt about cable design consult a decent electrical engineer. Refillable gas bottle might be the way forward, or as others suggested a far lower powered kettle. Or even a twig stove/kelly kettle for emergencies. More batteries would also combat the leisure battery internal resistance issue but gets heavy & expensive. Hybrid batteries could help if not already fitted


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## JonSue (Jan 24, 2022)

merl said:


> If you're using an inverter with huge loads like your kettle then your batteries need to be top notch.
> Assuming you're fully charging your batteries between each attempt do the following:
> Using the 600W kettle.
> Connect your voltmeter to the batteries and leave the meter connected while you run the kettle, monitor the voltage readings and note the start voltage and the end voltage, ie when the inverter stops working. Also the time between start and finish.
> ...


Hi Merle, I started the inverter and both batteries read 12.8v Switched the 600 Watt kettle on  on and it immediately went to 10.1 and the inverter started beeping! The batteries are connected to a solar panel so summat is wrong somewhere... Hope you have some ideas? Sue


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## Canalsman (Jan 24, 2022)

Sounds like the batteries have had it ...


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## r4dent (Jan 24, 2022)

jagmanx said:


> Travel kettles use at least 10 amps but that is OK for a short period  and better than 12V to 240v and mega amps



Is that 10amp at 12v, which is 120w and would take forever,
or 10amp at 230v which is 2300w and not really a travel kettle.

Our travel kettle is 800w so it uses under 4 amps on 230v.  This reduces the chances of tripping the site supply.

If we are not on EHU we use the gas kettle.


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## wildebus (Jan 24, 2022)

Quite a few years ago my sister gave me a 12V kettle (or drop in cup heater?).  Nice thought but it honestly was no use at all.


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## mistericeman (Jan 24, 2022)

wildebus said:


> Quite a few years ago my sister gave me a 12V kettle (or drop in cup heater?).  Nice thought but it honestly was no use at all.


Been there ... Done that... Tried a 12v coffee machine too 

Went straight back as useless. 

Our small (not travel) 240v 900w kettle in the transit worked well, 
Not as quick as the full size beast we have at home BUT didn't need to be on long to boil 2 cups of water. 

Pulled a fair chunk out of the battery BUT that's how were set up for all electric cooking. 

At the end of the day it takes twice as long to heat the same water using 900w as it does using 1800w (give or take)


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## wanderer52 (Jan 24, 2022)

JonSue said:


> Hi Merle, I started the inverter and both batteries read 12.8v Switched the 600 Watt kettle on  on and it immediately went to 10.1 and the inverter started beeping! The batteries are connected to a solar panel so summat is wrong somewhere... Hope you have some ideas? Sue


Hello JonSue,
It does sound like the batteries are possibly defunct.  But have you tried charging them up using a battry charger, or hooking them up in plaace of the other one that you say is reading 14.1V?
On-charge they should read around 14V (the actual recommended charge voltage does in fact depend on the type of battery and it's usage scenario (ie.e. for standby usaage or cyclic usage) as well as temperature - so for this exercise don't worry too much about the precise voltage - basically you're looking for above 13.6V.
If you attach one to a known good battery charger, and give it a few hours it should be reading the charger voltage of around 13.9. Disconnect it from the charger and after leaving it to settle for a while (say 1/2 hr) again measure the voltage - it should still be close to the 12.8V  you reported.
If you then connect the battery to the inverter, without any load on the inverter, the battery voltage should remain at 12.8V, which again is what you seem to have.
When you put the 600W kettle on, you say the voltage dropped to 10.1V - this does indeed strongly suggest the battery is only worthy of being a doorstop as 10.1V is well below the end point voltage of these batteries!
Out of curiosity, if you leave it connected to the inverter with the kettle on for a short time (say 30secs) and then disconnect it, what is the voltage.

Sorry if this is repeating what you may have already done, but it's imortant to test these batteries individually and using a battery charger eliminates any problems associated with your solar cell contoller.

Also, if you tke the battery to a garage, they can easily do a load test for you which will readily tell you if it's a gonner.

Vern


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## trevskoda (Jan 24, 2022)

Charger should get them to 14.4 and float about 13.6/7, of charge 12.7v, load test may show them to be nackered.


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## alwaysared (Jan 24, 2022)

We use this _*one*_ but only in the sunny months, we go back to gas in winter.

Regards,
Del


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## trevskoda (Jan 24, 2022)

alwaysared said:


> We use this _*one*_ but only in the sunny months, we go back to gas in winter.
> 
> Regards,
> Del


Nay link.


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## JonSue (Jan 24, 2022)

merl said:


> If you're using an inverter with huge loads like your kettle then your batteries need to be top notch.
> Assuming you're fully charging your batteries between each attempt do the following:
> Using the 600W kettle.
> Connect your voltmeter to the batteries and leave the meter connected while you run the kettle, monitor the voltage readings and note the start voltage and the end voltage, ie when the inverter stops working. Also the time between start and finish.
> ...


Hi Merl don't know where my reply went to!! I'll try again to reply to you. ...Both Batteries read 12.8v connected 600w kettle -started inverter,voltage immediately dropped to 10.8 on the batteries and the inverter beeped like a scalded cat. Any advice appreciated


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## JonSue (Jan 24, 2022)

merl said:


> If you're using an inverter with huge loads like your kettle then your batteries need to be top notch.
> Assuming you're fully charging your batteries between each attempt do the following:
> Using the 600W kettle.
> Connect your voltmeter to the batteries and leave the meter connected while you run the kettle, monitor the voltage readings and note the start voltage and the end voltage, ie when the inverter stops working. Also the time between start and finish.
> ...


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## JonSue (Jan 24, 2022)

Hi Merl don't know where my reply went to!! I'll try again to reply to you. ...Both Batteries read 12.8v connected 600w kettle -started inverter,voltage immediately dropped to 10.8 on the batteries and the inverter beeped like a scalded cat. Any advice appreciated


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## jagmanx (Jan 24, 2022)

r4dent said:


> Is that 10amp at 12v, which is 120w and would take forever,
> or 10amp at 230v which is 2300w and not really a travel kettle.
> 
> Our travel kettle is 800w so it uses under 4 amps on 230v.  This reduces the chances of tripping the site supply.
> ...


"Proper !2V only  Kettle" which used the cigarette lighter socket in a car..Hence the nearly flat battery.

I estimate that it may use 15 amps at 12V so care required,
But 2 x 100AH LBs should cope if they are well charged before and will be recharged as used and after by solar or alternator

15 amos x 20 mins - 5 amp hours...surely no problem.
Not that we use one  refillable LPG

BUT miggt be handy in the tunnel but no real need.


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## REC (Jan 24, 2022)

JonSue said:


> Hi Merl don't know where my reply went to!! I'll try again to reply to you. ...Both Batteries read 12.8v connected 600w kettle -started inverter,voltage immediately dropped to 10.8 on the batteries and the inverter beeped like a scalded cat. Any advice appreciated


Don't want to seem negative but have you a gas ring you can use instead? Our place in Portugal has very limited wattage and even a small kettle trips the supply. Seem to get a big power drain when first turned on?


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## alwaysared (Jan 25, 2022)

trevskoda said:


> Nay link.


Sorry about that but I did say I only used it in the sunny months so maybe the link will work in July?  
_*My kettle*_

Regards,
Del


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## wildebus (Jan 25, 2022)

JonSue said:


> I have 2 100 amp batteries connected and 1 2000 watt inverter but I can't boil a small kettle for a cup of tea. The inverter just starts Beeping after about a minute and the kettle is just tepid. Testing both batteries show 12.8 v Help


Just a few comments ref your setup  (other ones already made on the thread, but worth recapping)

200Ah of Batteries - can you use with an inverter?  Yes, for a short period.  With a Battery Bank that size, you should be able to use a kettle without a problem. If you got say a 800W Travel Kettle, you would be drawing around 80A from the battery while running.   Kettle that size with 2 mugs worth of water will take upto 6 minutes to boil, taking out around 8Ah from the battery - well within the usable capacity of the battery.
Whether that is a good use of battery power rather than using a gas hob is a decision only you can make, not others   (FWIW,  I use battery power to boil a kettle and run a microwave, as well as heating my shower water, so I am certainly not saying it is automatically a bad idea).

So why are you not able to do it?   two possibilities....
1) Batteries have had it.   That would explain it.   You would also see a drop in the voltage in general use. How long do the batteries last generally in day to day non-inverter use?
2) Cabling from Battery to Inverter inadequate.   If the cable is too light, you will get a large voltage drop and the inverter will complain as you see.  
What size cables have you and how long are they.   Check the voltage at the battery terminals before you put the kettle and and keep monitoring as the kettle switches on and the inverter starts to beep - what is the voltage just before the beeping starts?

An interesting read is this book from Victron - https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Book-Energy-Unlimited-EN.pdf
It is useful to read generally, and section 6.6 covers a real life analysis of power use when cooking an entire meal via Battery Power.


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## r4dent (Jan 25, 2022)

jagmanx said:


> But 2 x 100AH LBs should cope if they are well charged before and will be recharged as used and after by solar or alternator
> 
> 15 amos x 20 mins - 5 amp hours...surely no problem.


With 2 x 100 ah batteries (nominal)  you have 100 ah available.

So 4 brews a day (we have a lot more) will use 20% of the capacity. 

Depends what else you use 12v for. 

Only you not what is and isn't a problem.


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## jagmanx (Jan 25, 2022)

Not thinking of using it that mutch just when suits


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## Ian H 2845 (Jan 25, 2022)

An inverter is not an efficient way of heating anything, I’m so surprised that so many posts on here suggest that’s what a lot of people use. What’s wrong with using gas? We are pretty much full time and manage everything we need without an inverter.


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## mistericeman (Jan 26, 2022)

Ian H 2845 said:


> An inverter is not an efficient way of heating anything, I’m so surprised that so many posts on here suggest that’s what a lot of people use. What’s wrong with using gas? We are pretty much full time and manage everything we need without an inverter.


It can be a, very efficient way if you've got the kit to do it in summer time... 

We already had the solar/batteries/inverter... 

So effectively free power.


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## 1 Cup (Jan 26, 2022)

We carry a hot pump flask 3ltr just poor rest of kettel back into it To.fill kettal in morning ., takes less time to boil.
cold water takes more energy !  Plus it's drinking water only


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## trevskoda (Jan 26, 2022)

I  boil water about every half hr, mind you its not nice to drink I'm told.


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## JonSue (Jan 28, 2022)

wildebus said:


> Just a few comments ref your setup  (other ones already made on the thread, but worth recapping)
> 
> 200Ah of Batteries - can you use with an inverter?  Yes, for a short period.  With a Battery Bank that size, you should be able to use a kettle without a problem. If you got say a 800W Travel Kettle, you would be drawing around 80A from the battery while running.   Kettle that size with 2 mugs worth of water will take upto 6 minutes to boil, taking out around 8Ah from the battery - well within the usable capacity of the battery.
> Whether that is a good use of battery power rather than using a gas hob is a decision only you can make, not others   (FWIW,  I use battery power to boil a kettle and run a microwave, as well as heating my shower water, so I am certainly not saying it is automatically a bad idea).
> ...


Thank you very much for your helpful reply . On my other van I have 2 batteries and a 1000 w inverter and it does boil the 600w kettle but does start to beep, so I think my problem is a/ The battery ,I am booked in to have another one fitted on Monday. Can't do it myself as there is only space for one on this Escape. and b/ I need to upgrade my inverter from 1000 to 15000 . Fingers crossed then x


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## JonSue (Jan 28, 2022)

Turtletim said:


> First thing i'd check is the power requirements of the kettle. If its exceeding the output of the inverter that will cause an alarm. Next i'd check size of the cables from battery to inverter. Volt drop is a real problem on 12v(power being used to warm cables), particularly at higher currents, you may find even though volts are high leaving battery, they arrive low enough at inverter to cause a low voltage trip. I run a similar rig with 1400w draw microwave and need at least 25mm tails and feeds from split charge main alternator to carry the 116 amp (1400/12) required, and thats splitting the power from main , aux batts & alternator & solar input, and assuming I can keep voltage from dipping below 12v.  Also most pure leisure batteries are not designed to supply high currents, they have higher internal resistances therefore also suffer from volt drop. Check voltage at inverter input when under load.  I get over this by always running the engine when microwave is on. Be real careful with running such high loads, the currents at 12v are so massive , fire is a real risk due to stuff melting. Make sure all cables and accessories are properly specced for the current and everything is super tight, appropriately fused and regularly inspected for overheating. If in any doubt about cable design consult a decent electrical engineer. Refillable gas bottle might be the way forward, or as others suggested a far lower powered kettle. Or even a twig stove/kelly kettle for emergencies. More batteries would also combat the leisure battery internal resistance issue but gets heavy & expensive. Hybrid batteries could help if not already fitted


Thank youvery much for your helpful reply x


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## Helzie (Jan 30, 2022)

wildebus said:


> If you are not fitted with a pace-maker, then I would suggest you also consider an Induction Hob rather than a kettle.
> 
> You will be able to boil a kettle of water on an induction hob as fast as with a kettle of the same power.  A stove-top kettle that works on an induction hob will work on a gas hob just as well (I use the same collapsible kettle on both), and you will also have a device that givess you much more flexibility.
> I actually carry a pair of 500W Portable ones and can take them outside to use under the awning as well as inside the Motorhome.
> ...


Can I ask which 500W portable induction hob you have?


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## Darosicam (Jan 31, 2022)

JonSue said:


> I have 2 100 amp batteries connected and 1 2000 watt inverter but I can't boil a small kettle for a cup of tea. The inverter just starts Beeping after about a minute and the kettle is just tepid. Testing both batteries show 12.8 v Help


I have 4 x 110amp leisure batteries connected to a 5kW/Hr inverter.  My system is overkill, even for wild camping.
`My guess is that your kettle pulls too much power for your inverter ... resistive loads like kettles, need a real whack up the backside to get started, so look for a 750 or 800 watt kettle and that should work.  Heating water on the gas is perhaps a better option and save your electrical power for items/tasks which are electric only.
I have a small single ring gas camping stove for emergencies and for cooking smelly food outside ... it uses (expensive) cans a bit bigger than aerosol cans ... if you are a bit technical, you can refill them ... dangerous if you don't know how !  Can be handy if I run out og LPG in the middle of nowhere.
People often have all the manufacturer's hook-up installation and then connect their inverter as though it is shore power.  That is a very bad idea, because you will be powering all of that electronic panel ... it feeds the fridge, water heater, water pump, etc. and even the battery charger.  Effectly reducing dramatically what is available from the inverter.
I should also mention that the inverter labelled as 1200watts, uses about 10% of its rated power just running itself.  So, it is probably worth more like 980 watts, unless the maker has accounted for losses and deducted those from the output ratings.  My 5kW inverter costs 500 watts switched on and doing nothing, so it is reserved mostly for the microwave ... I have several smaller inverters and try to use the size most suited to the task !

Hope some of that is helpful. 

P.S.  1.  Look up how the make an alcohol burner from a drinks can ... YouTube is your friend for that.
        2.  In an absolute emergency, it is possible to boil water using a tealight candle,  although it does take a long time.


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## Brockley (Feb 4, 2022)

I thought the op made it clear that shortage of gas was the main issue and the reason for exploring electrical alternatives? I totally get this and although we have a 200ah lifepo4 leisure battery onboard it can run short during the poor solar months! I put together a 200ah lifepo4 battery connected to a 1500w pure sine wave inverter with a short hook up lead. All we use it for in winter is to hook up and run the onboard 40ah lithium charger to replenish the onboard leisure battery as we don’t travel far enough in winter for the b to b to earn its keep. Efficiency isn’t an issue because of it’s available cycles, so we use a low watt kettle, toaster and microwave routinely, then top up before going home.

During the ‘solar months’ we can use the ‘home made’ for other gas saving things like cooking as well as the usual stuff. This induction hob below doesn’t cycle through it’s maximum power setting and can be started off on the lowest setting, we can’t use its maximum power setting with the ‘home made’ and 1500w but we don’t ever need to. It’s great for outside cooking.

I get that lpg is becoming scarce but other countries can be more tricky, try getting it in Finland!


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## JonSue (Sep 28, 2022)

Thank you everyone for your help.It is really appreciated


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## merl (Sep 29, 2022)

JonSue said:


> Thank you everyone for your help.It is really appreciated


Hi, Just looked back thru this and noticed you'd replied and asked for my help but I failed to reply! Really sorry! Have you got the issue sorted? I'm guessing swapping the battery did the trick?
Merl


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