# Admin.



## Polar Bear (Sep 20, 2014)

I for one, hopefully one of many, wish to congratulate and thank Admin for his recent actions and ask for a vote of confidence in his abilities . 

I understand this decisions must have been very difficult to make but without rules, guidelines and common democracy no forum can continue. 

I've been accused of posting worse than a recent member has been banned for and if I have over stepped these rules I am willing to except the same outcome.


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## Andys (Sep 20, 2014)

S*it what did I miss??


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## mariesnowgoose (Sep 20, 2014)

Don't take my criticism of your joke personally, Polar Bear 

I'm just pointing out that if Admin wants to apply said rules across the board they shouldn't just be limited to personal attacks.

I'm afraid this is what happens every time there is a bit of so-called 'trouble'; the fallout means that members get jittery for a while in the aftermath 

It can leave a nasty feeling behind. Bit like being at school, I suppose. Naughty boys and girls get sent out of the room and it subdues the rest of the class for a while.

Anyway, I was trying to subtly point out that not everything that is offensive has to be 'personal' in nature.
Most of the personal insults between members are usually acceptable; either because they have a history or know what's acceptable to the recipient of those posts and are perceived as humorous by both parties. 
People who know each other fairly well can get away with insulting each other on a level that strangers normally wouldn't.

Other insults are the result of bar room brawls when it gets heated and those who feel they are losing the 'argument' resort to personal - and imo totally unjustified - nasty mud-slinging.
And the comments are not funny, they're blatantly nasty!

It is equally unacceptable, but absolute fact, that third party 'jokes' or 'jibes' can be sexist, racist, homophobic and any other kind of 'ist' or 'phobe' you can care to think of.
For all you know there could be a member on here who is Muslim and wears a burka, and she may be just as sensitive as some of the people who were offended by Win. 

Just sayin' 

I know lots of folk think the world has gone PC mad (as in Politically Correct), but there is often a very real (political and social) reason behind why such jokes are unacceptable.

Doesn't mean getting banned for posting a joke, just that if you apply rules they really should be applied across the board.

Difficult, huh?  Easiest solution is to remove the joke, then nobody gets hurt. 

And other times it's more acceptable to remaining members to remove the offending words than the person who posted them


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## izwozral (Sep 20, 2014)

I signed the Bring Back Winty thread but having read Admins recent post I have to agree with his actions. As for those who scream Free Speech, we are in Admins 'house' so to speak & he sets the rules just as I do in my own house. A case for, if you don't like it then. tough, kindly close the door behind you & don't bother coming back unless you abide by my rules.  

This should apply to all who choose to live in this country also.


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## mariesnowgoose (Sep 20, 2014)

izwozral said:


> I signed the Bring Back Winty thread but having read Admins recent post I have to agree with his actions. As for those who scream Free Speech, we are in Admins 'house' so to speak & he sets the rules just as I do in my own house. A case for, if you don't like it then. tough, kindly close the door behind you & don't bother coming back unless you abide by my rules.
> 
> This should apply to all who choose to live in this country also.



I think a German gentleman said something along similar lines once


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## izwozral (Sep 20, 2014)

mariesnowgoose said:


> I think a German gentleman said something along similar lines once



Did he? He wasn't wrong on everything then!


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## izwozral (Sep 20, 2014)

*


Andys said:



			S*it what did I miss??
		
Click to expand...

*
You have answered your question, you just missed the bit about the fan!


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## landyrubbertramp (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm not up to speed on this but if wints has left it's us all who will lose out not him . Freedom if speech means nothing unless it means the freedom to offend while I don't agree with the admins decsions I do respect the work he puts in to the site . Also as important as to be heard it's important to to give ppl the right to listen however silly it's is after all who is to decide what is and bit suitable for us to hear who is worthy to decide such things . It's censorship that is giving this world the problems it has now . Regards lee


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 20, 2014)

landyrubbertramp said:


> I'm not up to speed on this but if wints has left it's us all who will lose out not him . Freedom if speech means nothing unless it means the freedom to offend while I don't agree with the admins decsions I do respect the work he puts in to the site . Also as important as to be heard it's important to to give ppl the right to listen however silly it's is after all who is to decide what is and bit suitable for us to hear who is worthy to decide such things . It's censorship that is giving this world the problems it has now . Regards lee



Freedom of speech is nice to have, but at the end of the day it's Phil's ball and Phil's pitch, and he is also the (worthy) referee, so if we don't want to play the game to his rules then the Red Card is pulled. QED...
John


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## Admin (Sep 20, 2014)

landyrubbertramp said:


> I'm not up to speed on this but if wints has left it's us all who will lose out not him . Freedom if speech means nothing unless it means the freedom to offend while I don't agree with the admins decsions I do respect the work he puts in to the site . Also as important as to be heard it's important to to give ppl the right to listen however silly it's is after all who is to decide what is and bit suitable for us to hear who is worthy to decide such things . It's censorship that is giving this world the problems it has now . Regards lee



Freedom of speech is not freedom to abuse.


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## Fazerloz (Sep 20, 2014)

siimplyloco said:


> Freedom of speech is nice to have, but at the end of the day it's Phil's ball and Phil's pitch, and he is also the (worthy) referee, so if we don't want to play the game to his rules then the Red Card is pulled. QED...
> John



I will second that. 

The "worthy" bit was a little crawly though John.  :cheers:


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## iampatman (Sep 20, 2014)

Someone tell me how freedom of speech and closed threads are compatible. Thanks. 
Pat


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## Tezza (Sep 20, 2014)

First of all....there is no such thing as freedom of speech...i dont know where people get that from. Trying calling a black person a deragortory name...you will be prosecuted...trying telling a judge to f**k O*f....you will be held in contempt. So we all have to abide by the rules....in real life and here. because this site....i hope...mirrors what is acceptable speech....not freedom of speech. If we truly had freedom we could be rascist and bigots homophobic....who wants to live in that world? Not me...and i dont want to be part of a forum where those views are allowed. I am not accusing wints of anything...this post is about freedom of speech which is said a lot but nobody really wants it...i hope. Freedom of speech cant work and never will. if it does...then the bully's win. just think if you could go around all day saying whatever you want...you might be a decnt person...but what about the ar*eho*es who would also have it.Time to get real.


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## landyrubbertramp (Sep 20, 2014)

Yes I agree with that Phil . It's a sad situation for me as I respect both parties


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## Admin (Sep 20, 2014)

iampatman said:


> Someone tell me how freedom of speech and closed threads are compatible. Thanks.
> Pat



Which closed threads are you referring to?

Are they ones that break the forum rules?


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## landyrubbertramp (Sep 20, 2014)

Ppl do go around saying things they want all the tine esp in terms if religion then expect protection when quite rational things are said about religion the law is now used . It's the same with the feminist movement .  Detention without charge all stems from the majority of ppl being sheeple


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## John H (Sep 20, 2014)

Tezza said:


> First of all....there is no such thing as freedom of speech...i dont know where people get that from. Trying calling a black person a deragortory name...you will be prosecuted...trying telling a judge to f**k O*f....you will be held in contempt. So we all have to abide by the rules....in real life and here. because this site....i hope...mirrors what is acceptable speech....not freedom of speech. If we truly had freedom we could be rascist and bigots homophobic....who wants to live in that world? Not me...and i dont want to be part of a forum where those views are allowed. I am not accusing wints of anything...this post is about freedom of speech which is said a lot but nobody really wants it...i hope. Freedom of speech cant work and never will. if it does...then the bully's win. just think if you could go around all day saying whatever you want...you might be a decnt person...but what about the ar*eho*es who would also have it.Time to get real.



First, there are no banned words in law. You can call anybody anything you like. What is banned is incitement to hatred - and you can do that without using any unsavoury words at all. Using what most of us would regard as unsavoury words - such as ******* or a ****** isn't banned - it all depends on the context. 

Yes, of course there are rules - and with every right comes a responsibility. But bullies, racists, bigots and homophobes will still be all those things whatever they are or are not allowed to say in public. As I said recently, I prefer to know who the bigots are and what they are thinking. What is to be gained by driving them underground? PC doesn't change people's views; it simply hides them -and that does nobody any good at all.

PS there are, it seems, words that aren't allowed on this forum, though! The words I wrote above are b a s t a r d and n I g g e r. You see, there are ways to get round any rule


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## Tezza (Sep 20, 2014)

You might....but the 14 year old gay person doesnt want it thrown at him all the time...just an example...your shoulders might be broad...but there are lots of people who havent  got them.And dont want to hear the remarks. And their lives made a misery by them. Or do we just tell everybody ignore it? they will go away. We know they wont go away and will carry on. Dont disagree with you that it changes nobodys view.But we dont have to listen to bile.And if that is what freedom of speech means...i dont want it or need it in my life
edit...of course there are ways around....to put it on here....but if you were being horrible...you wouldnt be here long. you know that...so the person doing it has gained nothing...because all through society there are standards...and people...decent people would not tolerate that type of thing.


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## mariesnowgoose (Sep 20, 2014)

... and therein lies the contradiction.

You can silence a man's words, but you can't change his viewpoint.

There are plenty who moan about 'political correctness' gone mad, and there are those who need that same 'correctness' from time to time to prevent them being unecessarily abused - maybe even the moaners themselves!

I agree with John H - it's the context and intention behind the words that matter.

'Tis an extremely complicated subject!  :sleep-040:


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## landyrubbertramp (Sep 20, 2014)

It is complicated I'm sure we can all agree at least in that


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## Admin (Sep 20, 2014)

I do not like having to warn or ban anybody.

I get more complaints about my easy go attitude to moderation than I do from those who compare me to Hitler. Unless you are a new free member, you will be warned and have the opportunity to discuss the matter with me before a ban.


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## landyrubbertramp (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm sure I speak for the vast majority Phil in that you do us a good service running the site . And in fairness it's not as if ppl are forced to come on to the forum


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## Fazerloz (Sep 20, 2014)

mariesnowgoose said:


> ... and therein lies the contradiction.
> 
> You can silence a man's words, but you can't change his viewpoint.
> 
> ...



The trouble is context and intention behind the words can be found by the reader when in reality there is no context or intention, Just people wrongly jumping to conclusions about others.


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## sparrks (Sep 20, 2014)

I wonder how much of the 'nastiness' is down to alcohol? It does seem to be worse towards midnight.

Personally I think an outright ban is wrong, much better a ban of 24 or 48 hrs as a cooling off period.

However, it is Phil's site and it is up to him afterall. 

Am I correct in assuming that Seamus was also banned?


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## John H (Sep 20, 2014)

Tezza said:


> You might....but the 14 year old gay person doesnt want it thrown at him all the time...just an example...your shoulders might be broad...but there are lots of people who havent  got them.And dont want to hear the remarks. And their lives made a misery by them. Or do we just tell everybody ignore it? they will go away. We know they wont go away and will carry on. Dont disagree with you that it changes nobodys view.But we dont have to listen to bile.And if that is what freedom of speech means...i dont want it or need it in my life
> edit...of course there are ways around....to put it on here....but if you were being horrible...you wouldnt be here long. you know that...so the person doing it has gained nothing...because all through society there are standards...and people...decent people would not tolerate that type of thing.



Do you honestly think that a 14 year old gay person's life would be better if the bigots were not allowed to use certain words? Those bigots have plenty of ways of making his/her life a misery and by concentrating on words we are doing him/her no favours at all. 

There are and will always be plenty of ignorant, racist, bigoted and thoroughly nasty people out there. I prefer to know who they are and where they are. That way we can isolate them. By driving them underground you simply give them oxygen.


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## iveco4x4 (Sep 20, 2014)

We do have a form of free speech. I can argue with a person of faith on the existance of god, to challenge ideas , to talk politics, ideas but not to incite hate, well thats not a vaild use of free speech

Take a look at these lyrics from Grace Petrie, sometime musical commentator on Radio 4's the now show

This was after a ukip councillor blamed gay marage for the floods earlier this year, read or you can listen

I Do Not Have the Power to Cause a Flood | Grace Petrie

A form of free speech is a privlege, with that privelage comes responsibilities

Rich


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## Aquaticaquarian (Sep 20, 2014)

[No message]


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## trevskoda (Sep 20, 2014)

came home from a good day out read the threads non the wizer dont know whats happened ,i to have been to the abis didnt even know that there was a administrator and i was wrong however i find phill a good chap and a well run site in fact the best but it still makes me very sad when reading this ,i hope things settle i for sure would mis the chat and point of view that some folk have even if insulting to me as its water of a ducks back but the boss is the boss and what a good job he does  and i wish i had his brains to build a site like this.


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## iampatman (Sep 20, 2014)

[No message]


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## theredman (Sep 20, 2014)

My view, for what it's worth, is that the thread (scotish independence) was allowed to run for far to long. It was clear from the first page that it was going in the wrong direction. 90+ pages later and it had descended into a slanging match. In my opinion the bully bouys (sic) won, not the ones who posted on an open forum but the ones who complained off post to Admin. I'm all for free speach but 'speak' up on the forum , scroll past or click ignore. A hollow victory for the nationalists. :mad1:


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## Admin (Sep 20, 2014)

[No message]


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## Kontiki (Sep 20, 2014)

I personally am against banning almost anybody how ever annoying they can be, BUT  its my own personal view, I have in the past selected the option to not view certain peoples posts as I found they would just wind me up. I have often written a long reply to somebody & after reading it, deleting it rather than posting as I can't be bothered in prolonging a discussion which is getting too personal. 
If I were running the site I would probably ban most people (including myself), as somebody who has been a member for quite a long time I can't remember Phil banning anybody without reason. I know a few who were banned that have gone on to other forums only to get banned there as well. Maybe there is a forum out there somewhere where they all go, to qualify maybe you have to have been banned from a forum.

Freedom of speech comes with responsibilities & should not infringe on anybody else's freedom.


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## iampatman (Sep 20, 2014)

*Apology*

My apologies to Admin. I must say I hadn't read the Forum Rules and it's true to say that one should always read the small print. 
Pat


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## justdoitviv (Sep 21, 2014)

*another opinion*



siimplyloco said:


> Freedom of speech is nice to have, but at the end of the day it's Phil's ball and Phil's pitch, and he is also the (worthy) referee, so if we don't want to play the game to his rules then the Red Card is pulled. QED...
> John



I am not going to read 3 pages.....
I am not often on this site, to belong to any group of person, or made any friends. I get the drift of the thread that someone was banned from this site, because of something admin thought of offensive. 

Prohibiting freedom of speech, even if it is offensive to some people, is a step back into the dark ages. I know cause I was brought up for 27 years in 3rd world countries where freedom of speech was denied, censorship of everything was enforced, and this has a knock on affect in all walks of life. One being the ability to think and reason for yourself, to think independently, and not what you were told. Indeed I believe, much cruelty and injustice, corruption etc exists because of restrictions on freedom of speech. 

I have absolutely no idea what was said that admin thought necessary to ban a person.  But I do have this question........... where will the line be drawn. Ok you say.......... admin has the right to judge. Isnt this the same as a dictatorship?

 So is all irish jokes to be banned, if say the admin was an irish person. is all discussions on foreign persons to this country to be banned, if an admin was a foreigner.??????????  Can and will all jokes about women and males relationships be banned? After all I am a woman, and lets face it, a lot of the jokes, and respones can be viewed as insulting, if a persons was that sensitive. 

Discussions even if insulting can be educational to the posters and the readers. I am just an average person. I read a persons post  and think.........yup.......correct. Then I read a post......and think........no,  you are correct......that's a normal valid remarks you made there.........Post 1 is not so correct after all........then I read another answer to a post.......and I think......ahhhhhhhhh no you are actually making more sense, than post one and two...and so it goes on..... This is all educational, and debate, different opinions, and thoughts are needed to challenge a particular thought pattern..

if a thread is that offensive then it should be removed...........not the person banned...........and I actually think a vote should take lplace as to if the person or thread should be removed from the site. 

Im pretty sure I would have banned on several occasions regarding my posts on homelessness, and others about housing issues. Cause they could of been deemed offensive to some people. But cause I have knowledge than others on these subjects, and spoke the truth, should I be banned.?


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## SteveM (Sep 21, 2014)

justdoitviv,

You may not have read the 3 pages of this thread but it might be worth reading post #31 from Admin. It addresses your post perfectly.

The line is drawn where Admin has responsibility for what is posted. The utopia of no censorship and true freedom of speech will never exist on an internet forum. Ask yourself, would you be willing to set up and run a forum based around any hobby or topic, that you will not censor, will allow unlimited freedom of speech AND be responsible for whatever is posted there?


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## antiquesam (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## John H (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## 2cv (Sep 21, 2014)

I think that Phil has created a great forum here, and this has come about by his light touch and good decisions. If someone doesn't like how he runs it they are free to leave and set up their own.
I'm just grateful that he continues to run it so well and hasn't sold out to others. I'd have given up with the hassle long ago.


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## Teutone (Sep 21, 2014)

I really don't understand what the problem is. There is a big difference in my opinion of beeing allowed freely to speak or insulting people.

One should get his/her opinion across without talking down or insulting others.

It would be different if members would be TOLD by admin what to post. Now that would be a case of freedom of speech not allowed.

In my opinion Phil has proven more than once that he can handle issues concerning forum rules quite competent and doesn't seem to shoot out of the hip for every little incident. 

I would love to see other members reactions/action if they would be in Phil's shoes......


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## trevskoda (Sep 21, 2014)

Has anyone thought that wintonion may be suffering dementia or stress,this happened to my late grandfather who brought me up,towards the end of his life it was almost unbearable for me my grandmother and outhers in the street as his unknowing insults got under peoples skin.i read phills repeat posts from wint and they were not good ,but i think something is wrong with david as he is normaly helpfull ?.


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 21, 2014)

Teutone said:


> I really don't understand what the problem is. There is a big difference in my opinion of being allowed freely to speak or insulting people.
> 
> SNIP



Agreed. This is not Hyde Park Corner, it's an open club for motorhome owners. If we met in a clubhouse and a member, through the exercise of 'free speech' insulted another member or members or started a fight then they would be kicked out rather smartish, and I don't see any difference at all on here. 
Keep moderating moderately!
John


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## voyagerstan (Sep 21, 2014)

life's to short for all this **** . decision made be it right or wrong so lets just move on . :blah::blah:STAN


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## oldpolicehouse (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## izwozral (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## sparrks (Sep 21, 2014)

izwozral said:


> I am not sure how you judge something is offensive or not if you don't read it first? Sure, you can press the ignore button but the damage has already been done by reading the initial offending comment.
> 
> Ask yourself: if you allowed someone into your home who then made scathing remarks about your family, swore incessantly, made racist, bigoted or homophobic comments that could apply to any of your family, I am damn sure they would be given their marching orders pdq if not punched in the face first. Would you find that persons behaviour acceptable under the term 'free speech'.?



Peoples sensitivity levels vary greatly. I often find some posters remarks offensive or not to my liking - I will either comment on that or I will ignore it. I will NOT run to mummy/teacher/admin and complain about it/poster.

If you are of such a sensitive personality then maybe the internet is not for you or at least not Forums.



izwozral said:


> If you truly believe in free speech NO matter what, try walking through Brixton or Moss Side shouting "shoot all ni**ers" or if you are black, gate crash a BNP party & try something similar.



I guess that depends on which 'religion you follow' wear a burka or simliar and walk through the streets of Luton shouting and carrying placards with the message "Death to UK police" is deemed ok or so it seems.



izwozral said:


> I too think it is a shame that Winty has been banned purely from the loss of entertainment value I got from his posts but Admin is 100% right to ban him, he has absolute authority in his own forum. I for one would not wish this site to close because Admin has got so peed off with all the nastiness, bitching & bile that infects this site by a bunch of people who behave like spoilt brats rather than the [I suspect] elder persons that they are.



This is where timed cooling off period could be implemented. 



izwozral said:


> I would rather this site remained for the good of all, with the threat of a banning order, rather than see it closed down or allowed to be posted without restriction, where members or their family can be verbally ripped to pieces.



There has only been one poster that has been banned of which I agree with, his sole purpose was to wind up and seek confrontation with other members of the forum and apparantly used to go on other sites bragging about it. He was banned several times under different names and from various other sites.


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## runnach (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## Admin (Sep 21, 2014)

justdoitviv said:


> I am not going to read 3 pages.....
> I am not often on this site, to belong to any group of person, or made any friends. I get the drift of the thread that someone was banned from this site, because of something admin thought of offensive.
> 
> Prohibiting freedom of speech, even if it is offensive to some people, is a step back into the dark ages. I know cause I was brought up for 27 years in 3rd world countries where freedom of speech was denied, censorship of everything was enforced, and this has a knock on affect in all walks of life. One being the ability to think and reason for yourself, to think independently, and not what you were told. Indeed I believe, much cruelty and injustice, corruption etc exists because of restrictions on freedom of speech.
> ...





WOW, 

This is a privately owned internet forum, people choose to be members, they agree to be bound by the rules (which are on the registration page in full, not just a tick box).

I have the right to choose because I own it, I am not elected and I have not forced my way into power by taking power from someone else.

I believe the word Management best describes the way that I run this business, dictatorship is a type of government that is associated with countries, nations or societies. 

The forum rules do allow the discussion of most subjects, but not the attack of the person who holds the opinion.


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## Admin (Sep 21, 2014)

I am no longer going to respond to posts in this thread. I think all the relevant points have been discussed openly. If people actually read the thread before posting I think that they will find that the answers are all there. However if you do feel that you would like to talk to me about this, feel free to send me a private message or open a support ticket.


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## sinner (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## Tezza (Sep 21, 2014)

Ok i must be thick....where anywhere does it say you have freedom of speech....i dont think its in any of our laws of the land...we dont have a constitution...and this is a forum that belongs to somebody.Maybe somebody could tell me where anywhere in this country it states we are allowed freedom odf speech. Or is it just an ideal that morst peole THINK they have a right to....like making a phone call if your arrested...no you dont have that right either. You people been watching far to much tv methinks


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## champstar (Sep 21, 2014)

Being a contributor to the said thread I did find myself getting wound up by some of the posts but tried to respond in a light hearted or constructive manner. The member who has been banned set out to wind up people and succeeded in reducing the thread into a slanging match. 
In other threads I had found his attitude helpful especially in motorhoming terms but in others appeared condescending. 

I appologise for my part in said thread and through hindsight it was a very emotive issue and was sure to end up in a heated debate but unlike Friday night on the streets of Glasgow which descended into violence, I hope we can all get back to what this forum is all about wildcamping and motorhoming.


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 21, 2014)

champstar said:


> Being a contributor to the said thread I did find myself getting wound up by some of the posts but tried to respond in a light hearted or constructive manner. The member who has been banned set out to wind up people and succeeded in reducing the thread into a slanging match.
> In other threads I had found his attitude helpful especially in motorhoming terms but in others appeared condescending.
> 
> I appologise for my part in said thread and through hindsight it was a very emotive issue and was sure to end up in a heated debate but unlike Friday night on the streets of Glasgow which descended into violence, I hope we can all get back to what this forum is all about wildcamping and motorhoming.



i think we all or at least most stooped lower than we normally would .but mabey it was understandable .we were talking about our future .ALL OF US .


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## landyrubbertramp (Sep 21, 2014)

Anyway moving on what's your view on global warning lol only kidding


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 21, 2014)

landyrubbertramp said:


> Anyway moving on what's your view on global warning lol only kidding



a thread on that will definitely raise the temperature


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## Deleted member 32902 (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## Tezza33 (Sep 21, 2014)

seamus said:


> reason number two is I was drowning my sorrows.
> seamus.


And now you are back so we have to drown ours :lol-049:


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## drewdt3 (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## n brown (Sep 21, 2014)

been a disappointing few days altogether !


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## iampatman (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## Deleted member 32902 (Sep 21, 2014)

iampatman said:


> Good to see you back Seamus. I was a bit worried there for a time
> 
> Pat


 Thanks Pat, I was on the lash after Friday, stranded in Stirling, I'm good now.
Good to know I have a pal or two, or maybe three on here:wacko:
seamus.


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## invalid (Sep 21, 2014)

seamus said:


> Thanks Pat, I was on the lash after Friday, stranded in Stirling, I'm good now.
> Good to know I have a pal or two, or maybe three on here:wacko:
> seamus.



Hi, the Scottish side of our family all voted to a man and woman YES, I see no winners in this, almost 40%+ voted for a free independent nation, most Brit's will see this as 40%+ of Scotland want nothing to-do with Britain, where in fairness all Scotland wanted was to control it's own destiny. Anyway good your back, and if you've got a hangover no sympathy, your old enough to know better. :cheers:


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## iampatman (Sep 21, 2014)

seamus said:


> Thanks Pat, I was on the lash after Friday, stranded in Stirling, I'm good now.
> Good to know I have a pal or two, or maybe three on here:wacko:
> seamus.



Pal? Nah, it's just that I've got you in the sweep for the next to be banned  

Pat


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## Deleted member 32902 (Sep 21, 2014)

runnach said:


> Ditto with iampatman pos :wave:
> 
> Stirling, eh, paying homage to The Wallace with a few drams consumed, eh?
> 
> For the record, I also received a bow shot email from Admin, and I too, had also walked away from Inde thread. I also don't go greeting to admin, never had, never will...............cheers.



Jaysas, I don't want to start all this up again but:lol-061: Listening to the fat controller talking about standing down and he quoted from the song about Claverhouse of Killiecrankie fame, 'Bonny Dundee' last two lines, this used to be my party piece:dance:

Then tremble false wigs, in the midst o' yer glee,
for ye hae 'no see the last  my bunnets and me.

He saying its not over, he's saying its not over! That's all I'm saying.:ninja:
seamus.


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## trevskoda (Sep 21, 2014)

mandrake said:


> a thread on that will definitely raise the temperature



polar bear would have no home to go to if the ice caps melt.:lol-053::lol-049::wave:


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## Tezza33 (Sep 21, 2014)

trevskoda said:


> polar bear would have no home to go to if the ice caps melt.:lol-053::lol-049::wave:


I don't think he is a real Polar Bear


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## trevskoda (Sep 21, 2014)

tezza33 said:


> I don't think he is a real Polar Bear



well my eye sight is bad but my two kids say he is def a polar bear:lol-053:


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## runnach (Sep 21, 2014)

trevskoda said:


> well my eye sight is bad but my two kids say he is def a polar bear:lol-053:



Yup deffo a polar bear glacier mints in his camper. See if he was one of them there cola bears he'd have eucalyptus leaves !!!! Mmmm


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## carol (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## sinner (Sep 21, 2014)

guys, it cant be over  
the fat man didna sing )) 

anyway moving on.............sturgeon for president  



Alan, Kid & dug


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## n brown (Sep 21, 2014)

[No message]


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 22, 2014)

tezza33 said:


> I don't think he is a real Polar Bear



he is look at his avata  or whatever they call them little pics


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## bluejet (Sep 22, 2014)

*Freedom of Speech*

My wife says "If you can't say anything nice, then say nothing at all".

She hardly ever speaks to me.


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## justdoitviv (Sep 22, 2014)

*appologies*



SteveM said:


> justdoitviv,
> 
> You may not have read the 3 pages of this thread but it might be worth reading post #31 from Admin. It addresses your post perfectly.
> 
> The line is drawn where Admin has responsibility for what is posted. The utopia of no censorship and true freedom of speech will never exist on an internet forum. Ask yourself, would you be willing to set up and run a forum based around any hobby or topic, that you will not censor, will allow unlimited freedom of speech AND be responsible for whatever is posted there?



I have just read post 31 as advised. The sentences quoted by admin about what this person said, is very insulting. What he wrote has got nothing to do with free thinking, of a topic or subject being discussed. Its a personal insulting attack of a member. If someone spoke to me like that, I would probably leave the site.


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## snowbirds (Sep 22, 2014)

*Tin hats on*


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## John H (Sep 23, 2014)

izwozral said:


> 1. I am not sure how you judge something is offensive or not if you don't read it first? Sure, you can press the ignore button but the damage has already been done by reading the initial offending comment.
> 
> 2. If you truly believe in free speech NO matter what, try walking through Brixton or Moss Side shouting "shoot all ni**ers" or if you are black, gate crash a BNP party & try something similar.



1. No, but you will soon know who is likely to say things that offend you and, as in the example you use of a guest in your house, you can choose not to listen to them in future.

2. Free speech, like everything else, has boundaries. With every right comes a responsibility. In this case, the boundaries are set by law (incitement to hatred etc). What I am against is extending those boundaries beyond what has been enshrined in law. I know Phil is not like this but a more draconian approach could lead to allowing only views that coincide with the site owner. Where do you draw the line? I draw it at the law; others see it differently but I will continue to make the point because I strongly believe it is better to know who is saying what rather than have some views hidden away to fester. As for shouting "shoot all n i g g e r s", I would never do that because it is totally against my beliefs - but I believe that anyone who thinks it should be allowed to do it..........and take the consequences! :lol-053:

One last point. There have been several cases of people posting what many would regard as offensive, racist or sexist jokes. I am sure that in all cases the intention was not to offend but when others have taken offence, quite often the poster of the joke has removed it or apologised. I believe that most things that might be taken as racist or offensive are not intended as such and by allowing these jokes etc to be posted, people are discovering that their innocently-intended jokes could offend others - something they would not wish to do. Thus, we all learn by being open. We learn nothing, however, by being shut away in a box and not being allowed to communicate.


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## Deleted member 32902 (Sep 23, 2014)

Just like to say I'm not a snitch either, I Never complained to phil, I prefer to get my back to the wall and duke it out.
I do not like to see anyone being banned, Been on the end of a few myself and it plays havoc with your self esteem:lol-053:
Winty has reamed my Not King Cole out on a few occasions, but I just dusted myself down and got back into the fray, I'm not gloating at his ban, but its phils call.
seamus.


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## carol (Sep 23, 2014)

snowbirds said:


> Hi carol,
> 
> Like you I have been driving around France and now in Spain and missed it all,I'm keeping my tin hat on and staying under the radar.
> 
> ...



Makes my stomach churn just hearing about it! And do you know, I don't even remember the chains hitting my van! Drove on the outskirts of Rouen on my trip, but was following Jenny P and hubby. When we went through the tunnel it's a good job no one could hear what I was shouting!


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## jennyp19 (Sep 23, 2014)

We heard you Carol   Did you go the same way back lol


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## carol (Sep 23, 2014)

jennyp19 said:


> We heard you Carol   Did you go the same way back lol



No, I went the long way round!


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## antiqueman (Sep 23, 2014)

*hard job*



Admin said:


> I do not like having to warn or ban anybody.
> 
> I get more complaints about my easy go attitude to moderation than I do from those who compare me to Hitler. Unless you are a new free member, you will be warned and have the opportunity to discuss the matter with me before a ban.



The problem is your admin and doing your best to make all happy, I am admin on another site ( nothing similar ) and if you make a decision right or wrong somebody will always gripe, it goes with the job. you try hard to please a lot of different people and it seems most like you even when they may disagree with you, so looks to me like you are doing a good job in what can be hard circumcisors. I have no doubt you think long and hard before you decide, please keep your job, you are welcome to it.:sucks:


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## Byronic (Sep 23, 2014)

antiqueman said:


> so looks to me like you are doing a good job in what can be hard circumcisors. I have no doubt you think long and hard before you decide, please keep your job, you are welcome to it.:sucks:



Didn't know Phil was a Rabbi, soft job normally I would have thought!!


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 23, 2014)

Byronic said:


> Didn't know Phil was a Rabbi, soft job normally I would have thought!!



Well, I would expect Admin to be a little circumspect when banning people!
John


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## Byronic (Sep 23, 2014)

siimplyloco said:


> Well, I would expect Admin to be a little circumspect when banning people!
> John



Strange if that's the case, because when banning people I might have expected him to act rashly and pull all the knobs out and cut fast and loose.


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## Robmac (Sep 23, 2014)

You've got to take your hat off to him though.


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 23, 2014)

Robmac said:


> You've got to take your hat off to him though.



I laughed out loud at that! It was a cut above the rest....


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## Tezza33 (Sep 23, 2014)

He is Admin through choice, nobody is foreskin him to do it :idea:


I know that is tenuous but it is late


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 23, 2014)

tezza33 said:


> He is Admin through choice, nobody is foreskin him to do it :idea:
> 
> 
> I know that is tenuous but it is late




Circumcision jokes are all very funny, but there is a cut off point...


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## John H (Sep 23, 2014)

A Jewish person could get very cut up about recent comments :rolleyes2:


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 23, 2014)

John H said:


> A Jewish person could get very cut up about recent comments :rolleyes2:



And how do you think I feel? And I'm not even Jewish!!


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## n brown (Sep 23, 2014)

Jewish people aren't complete bell ends


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## Tezza33 (Sep 23, 2014)

Some useful tips here


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## Siimplyloco (Sep 23, 2014)

tezza33 said:


> Some useful tips here



I'm reminded of the recruitment sergeant who told me about an applicant for a commission. He was refused because he had been circumcised. I also found to my cost that you have to be a complete prick to be an officer...
John


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## Tezza33 (Sep 23, 2014)

I love this forum because instead of ideas about Men's health being ignored they are brought to the fore. Skin is important in health and something that should be pushed forward not just be pulled back



might get banned for that one if not the Scottish Woman one


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## runnach (Sep 23, 2014)

siimplyloco said:


> Circumcision jokes are all very funny, but there is a cut off point...


 Perhaps there is, no skin off my nose.

Channa


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## n brown (Sep 23, 2014)

this subject-- there's no end to it


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## Byronic (Sep 23, 2014)

n brown said:


> this subject-- there's no end to it



There is.... and you get gripped by the end.


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## Ste (Sep 24, 2014)

Getting back to the OP...

Phil Admin:  From personal experience, I know it can be a little sh*tty at the top sometimes. But keep doing what your doing, cos by my book you're doing a damn good job.

Ste


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## wints (Sep 24, 2014)

landyrubbertramp said:


> I'm not up to speed on this but if wints has left it's us all who will lose out not him Regards lee



I'm not up to speed either......have I been banned ??

regards
Allen


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## izwozral (Sep 24, 2014)

tezza33 said:


> I love this forum because instead of ideas about Men's health being ignored they are brought to the fore. Skin is important in health and something that should be pushed forward not just be pulled back
> 
> 
> Tosser :fun::lol-053::fun:


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## maingate (Sep 24, 2014)

wints said:


> I'm not up to speed either......have I been banned ??
> 
> regards
> Allen



You should be. :lol-049:


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## fatsklattery (Sep 24, 2014)

Ste said:


> Getting back to the OP...
> 
> Phil Admin:  From personal experience, I know it can be a little sh*tty at the top sometimes. But keep doing what your doing, cos by my book you're doing a damn good job.
> 
> Ste


Keep at it, you'll soon be back up there!


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## fatsklattery (Sep 24, 2014)

mariesnowgoose said:


> For all you know there could be a member on here who is Muslim and wears a burka, *and she may be just as sensitive as some of the people who were offended by Win. *
> 
> Just sayin'
> 
> I know lots of folk think the world has gone PC mad (as in Politically Correct), but there is often a very real (political and social) reason behind why such jokes are unacceptable.




 A bit sexist that,  I love MY burka too.


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