# diesel alternatives Bio Fuel



## biggirafe (Dec 6, 2009)

Just noticed that a question was raised in another thread about Diesel Alteratives, Bio Fuel, Vegetable Oil

Thought it would make an interesting thread.

Does anyone have any experience of this, My Kontiki runs at about 26 miles to the gallon so I would be very interested in any ways I can reduce the cost solong as it does not put the engine at risk.


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## derekfaeberwick (Dec 6, 2009)

I have thought about it but considered it too big a risk to take. I do about 5,500 miles a year @ an average of about25 mpg, so savings on fuel against the cost of a 5 pot Merc engine, too risky.

 also, if you were to give it a try, this may not be the best time of year to do so.

   Derek and


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## rickboy (Dec 6, 2009)

*Filter*

This is a massive subject!!!!.

My advice if you go down this route(I would not)is to always carry a spare fuel filter and the tools and knowhow to change it.


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## biggirafe (Dec 6, 2009)

Thanks for your interest in this, both your replys of course beg the question why?
Why do I need a spare filter?
Why is it likely to damage an engine?

It seems more and more people are doing it , if it was still that risky would they be doing it? I don't know


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## derekfaeberwick (Dec 6, 2009)

'Running your car on vegetable oil depends on what type of car you have, direct or indirect, whether its ECU controlled or whether it's a Bosch or Luca/CAV pump. The latter do suffer from wear more than Bosch; however it depends on what you are doing to the fuel supply etc. It will take to long to go into to much detail here; needless to say you can do it. Go ahead!

Good luck!'

  This is a quote from a 'convert' to the veggie cause who has gone into it in depth and even he appears to be a bit unsure.

  The savings don't warrant the risk in my case and I couldn't be bothered calculating % etc. What if you filled up in late summer, circumstances change and the van is idle for a few months, you go to start it up and it's a paticularly cool October day. There's every chance that the tank and pipes are all waxed up.

  Too big a risk for me and I'm a gas adaptor user.


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## PaulC (Dec 6, 2009)

There are too many variables involved in using veg oil. And the risk is too big. End of!


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## derekfaeberwick (Dec 6, 2009)

biggirafe said:


> Thanks for your interest in this, both your replys of course beg the question why?
> Why do I need a spare filter?
> Why is it likely to damage an engine?
> 
> It seems more and more people are doing it , if it was still that risky would they be doing it? I don't know





  Cos the old one's likely to be clogged up with fish ,n chips.


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## rickboy (Dec 6, 2009)

*Spare filter*



biggirafe said:


> Thanks for your interest in this, both your replys of course beg the question why?
> Why do I need a spare filter?
> Why is it likely to damage an engine?
> 
> It seems more and more people are doing it , if it was still that risky would they be doing it? I don't know



You need a spare filter because Bio is actually very clean,but it disslodges   all  the sludge and cr*p left by diesel.You usually need to change the filter after 2k or so of Bio use.If you then stick to it its ok.


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## derekfaeberwick (Dec 6, 2009)

biggirafe said:


> Just noticed that a question was raised in another thread about Diesel Alteratives, Bio Fuel, Vegetable Oil



 Vegetable oil? Fish'nchips.


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## guerdeval (Dec 6, 2009)

I used to run an old Gwagen very successfully on veggy oil straight out of the supermarket and it was about half the cost of diesel, it ran better and quieter but I was always so hungry when you smelled it, a friend ran his more modern Fiesta van on it and wrecked the pump, I think the older vehicle the better but of course the prices are pretty much the same nowadays.


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## oldiebutgoodie (Dec 6, 2009)

I run my vw t25 on free waste vegetable oil- filtered to 5 microns. 90%+ wvo in the summer down to approx. 25% in the winter.
And yes it does smell like the local chippy behind you.


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## biggirafe (Dec 6, 2009)

oldiebutgoodie said:


> I run my vw t25 on free waste vegetable oil- filtered to 5 microns. 90%+ wvo in the summer down to approx. 25% in the winter.
> And yes it does smell like the local chippy behind you.



Do you filter it yourself or do you buy it ready filtered. When I was on b sites driving Komatsu Diggers I met another contractor who ran his diesel van on it at about 50/50 this was 15 years ago. He had done it for years he said without any issues. I could not be bothered at the time becuase the savings were not that great.

How much is filtered oil to buy? Does anyone know?


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## oldiebutgoodie (Dec 6, 2009)

Filter it myself after heating to drive off any moisture.
Use bags like these.  18" 5 micron FILTER BAGS BIO DIESEL,VEG OIL, on eBay (end time 09-Dec-09 13:55:23 GMT)
The savings are great zero pence per litre as opposed to £1.10 per litre!


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## rickboy (Dec 6, 2009)

*Cheaper?*

Proper bio diesel ,not filtered oil which does not suite all diesels,is more expensive to make than regular diesel .
The rate of duty is less which brings the price inline or slightly less than regular diesel.
Most regular diesel you buy at the pumps already has about 5% Bio mixed in.
Bio customers usually buy for environmental or PR "we use renewable power source fuels" reasons not price.
Great stuff if your van has failed its MOT on emissions because it burns cleanly.
Its a complex subject .You get a differnt "Bang for you buck" so direct price comparison ltr for ltr is not easy.


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## jellybean (Dec 6, 2009)

hi i used to run a vauxhall cavalier on veg oil, did thousands of miles and never had a problem ,i used to run at 50/50 with diesel and new oil from supermarket all year round ,when i sold it at 150k to a mate he did the same and sold car on again later.i saw the car localy the other week and had a look at the mileage its now done over 200k. the only reason i dont do it any more is because they have made the price of veg oil go up to a price where it is no longer worth the hassle .if i could get the oil at a good rate i would be back on it tommorow.


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## biggirafe (Dec 6, 2009)

jellybean said:


> hi i used to run a vauxhall cavalier on veg oil, did thousands of miles and never had a problem ,i used to run at 50/50 with diesel and new oil from supermarket all year round ,when i sold it at 150k to a mate he did the same and sold car on again later.i saw the car localy the other week and had a look at the mileage its now done over 200k. the only reason i dont do it any more is because they have made the price of veg oil go up to a price where it is no longer worth the hassle .if i could get the oil at a good rate i would be back on it tommorow.



You answered my next question  How easy is it to get the oil, I guess everyone is after it now. You used to get loads of it just piled up behind the chippy but not anymore.


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## maingate (Dec 6, 2009)

rickboy said:


> Proper bio diesel ,not filtered oil which does not suite all diesels,is more expensive to make than regular diesel .
> The rate of duty is less which brings the price inline or slightly less than regular diesel.
> Most regular diesel you buy at the pumps already has about 5% Bio mixed in.
> Bio customers usually buy for environmental or PR "we use renewable power source fuels" reasons not price.
> ...


Next year (January I believe) the Government wants it to go to 10% bio diesel content. I forget the reason why but a small percentage of vehicles may have problems at this ratio.


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## davejen (Dec 6, 2009)

oldiebutgoodie said:


> Filter it myself after heating to drive off any moisture.
> Use bags like these.  18" 5 micron FILTER BAGS BIO DIESEL,VEG OIL, on eBay (end time 09-Dec-09 13:55:23 GMT)
> The savings are great zero pence per litre
> as opposed to £1.10 per litre!



so how do you dry off the moisture without cost? and are the filters free too?
Dave


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## Apache Two (Dec 6, 2009)

Hi
There is a place just off the A12 Stock/ Billericay turn off sells Bio diesel for 89.9 per ltr.


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## n8rbos (Dec 7, 2009)

i too run my tranny engined ldv on waste veg oil,no diff to power or consumption, what i don't do tho' is put it into the main tank.i stripped the old air filter box and put a sports filter on,and put a 6gallon tank in its place. i also built my own heat exchanger too.this time of year or any really your best running 70%wvo and 30%diesel,i use manual isolators too so no electonic bits to go wrong. the main probs people have with wvo is not filtering properly and running it too thick thus causing pump to work real hard,i also have a seperate filter for veg oil.


p.s. ready filtered is available on ebay@40/50p a litre, pop round your pubs and indian restuarants


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## l77 tuf (Dec 7, 2009)

our iveco daily 35/10 1999 vintage runs on veg oil all day long she been on it 18 months now i do treat if to a bit of derv every now and again 

bio feul 97.9 at the pump in manchester 

veg oil is 83.3p ltr at tesco right now then your points on top 

derv 109.9p ltr 

thats 25p a ltr saving to a van that has 100ltr tank like ours you soon save a lot of money and we do 30000 miles a yr so we save a lot of money 

so veg oil all the way for us straight of the shelf in the tank you try and tell me other wise cos it works i do it every day no filter/heater exept the feul filter on the engine changed every 6 months she runs spot on


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## biggirafe (Dec 7, 2009)

l77 tuf said:


> our iveco daily 35/10 1999 vintage runs on veg oil all day long she been on it 18 months now i do treat if to a bit of derv every now and again
> 
> bio feul 97.9 at the pump in manchester
> 
> ...



So if I read this right I can go to Tescos and buy 40 litres of their cheapest veg oil and put it in my tank with 40 litres of diesel with no ill effects to the mechanics and the engine will still run happily on this mix?

Seems to good to be true


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## guerdeval (Dec 7, 2009)

Yes you can provided its not a newish common rail diesel with the wrong type of pump. (but I'm not taking responsibility)


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## l77 tuf (Dec 7, 2009)

correct like i do if you have a van that is just a bog standard engine *not *hdi/jtd mine is a 2.8tdi and runs all day on the stuff 

hey and its cheap as chips


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## guerdeval (Dec 7, 2009)

Is that cheap   AS  chips or  WITH  chips?


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## biggirafe (Dec 7, 2009)

l77 tuf said:


> correct like i do if you have a van that is just a bog standard engine *not *hdi/jtd mine is a 2.8tdi and runs all day on the stuff
> 
> hey and its cheap as chips



Mine is a 2.5T 1995 Peugeout Boxer so I'm thinking this is ok then 

Thanks guys, this is a facinating subject and I can not see why people are not more interested in this, when you do only 26 mpg anything that can save you 1/4 of the cost. Cooking oil is 84p from tescos I'm sure if you bulk buy you can get a better price. Of course you don't want to damage the engine or cause starting problems but from what I have read on the web so long as you go 50/50 or 25/75 in winter you should be 100% ok.


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## Powertrain (Dec 7, 2009)

*Bio diesel fuels*

I am not surprised by tales of 'old' diesel engined vehicles running on various home-brews of waste oils since they were fitted with mechanical pumps and injectors. Indeed much of the external fittings on older diesels are there to stop the engine when required rather than keep them going. 
However electronically controlled and common rail diesels are altogether different and have been mapped to run on straight diesel or sometimes on a 5% bio content.
The injection map is created not only for optimum power, economy and drivability but also to meet emission regulations based on a known fuel chemistry and consistency, so putting in a random mixture of of oils is going to cause problems not only with your modern engine but also (I suspect) with warranties and insurance). 
I would particularly advise against it during the winter as the waxing point of these mixtures can be higher than commercial fuel and will mean that the fuel filter will block.


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## robert b (Dec 8, 2009)

ive got a 1.9 td peugot diesel 1998 and was strongly advised against using veg or bio in the engine lots of probs can develop


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## l77 tuf (Dec 8, 2009)

its your choice and your engine so you can do what you want folk i was adviced not to use in my iveco but i have run all my vans on veg oil not bio just virgin veg oil from supermarket and i have never had a problem


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## oldiebutgoodie (Dec 8, 2009)

davejen said:


> so how do you dry off the moisture without cost? and are the filters free too?
> Dave



Ensure the oil has been heated to smoking point before you get it and let it stand for a few weeks, the filter has been in use for three years - at the cost of 10 pence over the three years it is as near as zero as makes no odds.


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