# Automated external defibrillator



## Admin (Jul 4, 2017)

I have been considering carrying an Automated external defibrillator in my van / trailer for use at our rallies / gatherings.

If a member does have a heart attack at one of our rallies / gatherings this device could literally be the difference between their life and death.

So I am setting up a poll.

Do you think it is a good idea to have an AED and would you be happy to donate towards the purchase costs of the unit?


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## Deleted member 11999 (Jul 4, 2017)

Not a Rallier but more than happy to support this excellent idea.


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## Obanboy666 (Jul 4, 2017)

chas17 said:


> Not a Rallier but more than happy to support this excellent idea.



Same here, what training if any is required to use it ?


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## oldish hippy (Jul 4, 2017)

Hippy to donate could save a life


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## Wully (Jul 4, 2017)

Great idea happy to to donate no problem


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## RichardHelen262 (Jul 4, 2017)

Helen always carries one in our van wherever we go, and as she does training she has a training defibrillator I am sure she would be happy to bring along to meets for people to tryout.
Richard


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## Ed on Toast (Jul 4, 2017)

I also deliver AED training and have several training units, Annies etc... 

More than happy to deliver training too.


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## AllanD (Jul 4, 2017)

Yes and happy to make a donation too.


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## izwozral (Jul 4, 2017)

I have a dodgy ticker so count me in, never know when I might need it.


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## yorkslass (Jul 4, 2017)

Yes, just hope I never need it.


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## st3v3 (Jul 4, 2017)

I'd stick a bit in


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## The laird (Jul 4, 2017)

*Aed*

Great idea more than happy to contribute


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## oldish hippy (Jul 4, 2017)

Have heard that a taser does the same job


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## Byronic (Jul 4, 2017)

izwozral said:


> I have a dodgy ticker so count me in, never know when I might need it.



A ticker, even a dodgy one is something you need all the time I'd say


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## saxonborg (Jul 4, 2017)

Pity we are getting to be such an unhealthy nation, nevertheless I can see the benefits but hope that it would never be needed, anyway happy to donate.


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## GWAYGWAY (Jul 4, 2017)

As you know Phil,I DO carry one on my van when out as you never know when it might be needed. When at home it goes under the seat of the car. Having done resus of one Arrest victim, (successful CPR for ten minutes before the two ambulances  turned up) I though actually carrying  a defib in the car would have made it a lot easier, and got him back quicker. The man involved went on to make a good recovery and is alive today four years later.   He was shocked 6 time before they got him to  AE. 
Only a small percentage of 'out of hospital arrests' survive so it is important that everybody knows how to do PROPER CPR.
I might need it also so insurance for me as well.
I will be at the Drurridge Bay site with it.


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## Canalsman (Jul 4, 2017)

Please take a look at this earlier thread:

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/off-topic-chat/63317-goodsam-excellent-idea.html

Just 10% of heart attack victims survive without swift intervention.

That's a frightening statistic.


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## Wully (Jul 4, 2017)

I canny believe that this has been read over 300 times and only 17 people have stepped up to the plate you can guarantee it'll be one of the 283 that dident want to donate that'll need this thing first come on guys phill I'll put a £100 to start ball rolling.  Sorry now 28


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## Wully (Jul 4, 2017)

Don't know how much these things cost anybody got an idea. I've got a couple of descent old leisure batteries and a set o jump leads a wee bit sore on the nipps but just might work


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## GWAYGWAY (Jul 4, 2017)

Looser cruiser said:


> I canny believe that this has been read over 300 times and only 17 people have stepped up to the plate you can guarantee it'll be one of the 283 that dident want to donate that'll need this thing first come on guys phill I'll put a £100 to start ball rolling.  Sorry now 28



The one I bought has a price of £780 and it is a lot of money to actually come up with as a single person but as a group bought item it is a lot easier. You might think that VAT would  not be paid on it but as a non business  you have to pay. Nothing like encouraging people.


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## Tim120 (Jul 4, 2017)

Good idea. How can we donate?
A quick look shows a few models are available, perhaps go for a model the pros use? or seek the advice of the pros.
I've seen one in an old red phone box but for the life of me I can't remember where!

Taken a closer look and many models are available at various price points, no idea of their ease of use or efficacy.

Count me in, but I would suggest professional advice on the unit purchased.


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## Wully (Jul 5, 2017)

runnach said:


> Excuse the swear word.
> 
> [video=youtube;xTQJm7lYHBQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTQJm7lYHBQ[/video]



He had them wrong way round everybody knows left nipple is positive right nip negative silly hunt.


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## Canalsman (Jul 5, 2017)

I'm glad we've got an idea how much they cost. It's actually rather less than I had thought.

I assume there's an ongoing maintenance cost too.


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## Admin (Jul 5, 2017)

The AED I am looking at is the Powerheart G5 AED Automatic with CPR Feedback.

Whilst at meets this will be in an external cabinet on the trailer. (I may be asleep or out)


Defib £1317.60
Ready kit £28.80
External heated cabinet £400.00 - £700.00






[video=youtube_share;lpHkpBx2Lcs]https://youtu.be/lpHkpBx2Lcs[/video]


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## GWAYGWAY (Jul 5, 2017)

Tim120 said:


> Good idea. How can we donate?
> A quick look shows a few models are available, perhaps go for a model the pros use? or seek the advice of the pros.
> I've seen one in an old red phone box but for the life of me I can't remember where!
> 
> ...



No  you do not need the professional models like the ambulance as the difference is that they carry a load more feature such as  ECG recording for the Hospital also suction units  etc built in.  The simpler the better as the instructions are that even a complete novice can follow them.   From £650 up  when the pro units are in excess of £6000 , as an aside the pads are £70 per set and use once.

Down here we had a load of thieving *******s break into  a   south coast ambulance  station and rob  most of the parked ambulances of the defib  units.  Probably going abroad and stolen to order.


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## Linda (Jul 5, 2017)

we unfortunately are getting older, not necessarily infirm, and who knows when we might have need of a defibrillator.  We are up for this.


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## st3v3 (Jul 5, 2017)

Mate, the cabinet price is nuts!


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## GWAYGWAY (Jul 5, 2017)

st3v3 said:


> Mate, the cabinet price is nuts!


It is a weatherproof and mains heated unit for bolting to a building only some have chargers built in as well.  not for a vehicle.
a much cheaper and better one would also be available.


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## izwozral (Jul 5, 2017)

Looser cruiser said:


> I canny believe that this has been read over 300 times and only 17 people have stepped up to the plate you can guarantee it'll be one of the 283 that dident want to donate that'll need this thing first come on guys phill I'll put a £100 to start ball rolling.  Sorry now 28



Phil should make a note of all those who don't donate and should they arrest, Phil should stand over them going "naa na na naaa na".
:lol-053::lol-053:


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## Admin (Jul 5, 2017)

st3v3 said:


> Mate, the cabinet price is nuts!



The cabinet has to have a 12v heater.

It also has to be a certified one so that we can register the defib. This means that the locker will have a code on it that you give to the ambulance service, they will then be able to give the caller the code to open the locker. The locker is also alarmed.


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## stonedaddy (Jul 5, 2017)

*Good idea.*

Yeah put me in for a couple of bob. I can see me needing it down the pub so site it on the bar stool next to me. 
.... Tom ....


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## Wully (Jul 5, 2017)

If we can all agree on somthing for once this can only benefit us this thing used only the once would pay for itself a million  times over  and would be an asset to our community. But the operator would have to be sober and able to read instructions so that's me goosed. Phil I'm more than happy to test this thing and we'll need a couple of bottles of oxygen as well I've heard it's good for hangovers


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## listerdiesel (Jul 6, 2017)

Looks like the vote is pretty much in favour, by a big majority.

Happy to support it, it is a very good idea.

Peter


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## RichardHelen262 (Jul 6, 2017)

Admin said:


> The cabinet has to have a 12v heater.
> 
> It also has to be a certified one so that we can register the defib. This means that the locker will have a code on it that you give to the ambulance service, they will then be able to give the caller the code to open the locker. The locker is also alarmed.



Hi Phil, the cabinets are only registered if they are permanent. We have one on our building and it is given a call sign and made known as the nearest resource to the 999 control room. This is not possible with one hat moves around and neither is the cabinet practical for use in this case. If you are nearby and want to come see ours please feel free. The cabinet is very heavy, secured to the wall and has heating and lighting. The AED I carry in our motorhome is a G5 and it is just kept in the locker inside. If anyone needs it they can knock on the van door to access it and that's the only practical way I can see it working at rallies etc. 

We sell AED's and I will get some prices for you as we get discount with most suppliers. Am on my phone at moment so will reply later with more details etc.


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## Mutt (Jul 6, 2017)

*AED - YES and YES*

Great idea and  happy to donate, and I am First Aid + AED trained.

But I am not much use at present as the VW T4 Campervan had a near 3 grand gearbox rebuild after breaking down leaving the Whitwell meet, and a second failure on the first journey afterwards.  

Currently the van is in the Autogearbox centre in Devon, and the gearbox was sent back on a pallet to the Luton auto-gearbox centre. 

Plus I moved to Wadebridge in Cornwall which makes meets a bit more selective.

Mutt and Jackie


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## Chris356 (Jul 6, 2017)

I think its a good idea and  am willing to donate


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## Deleted member 47550 (Jul 6, 2017)

Having been a member of St John Ambulance for 48 years and being a trainer and assessor with them I can honestly say this is one of the best things money can buy.

As said early access means early recovery. The faster equipment is available the greater chance of survival although sadly sometimes they simply cannot help but........................ consider this - you are on a remote site (we often are in North West Highlands) and either a member of your family or simply a person on site or a walker suddenly collapses in front of you. Chances are a cardiac arrest (yes young people can have them as well) and you have access to an AED on site or in your van. Within minutes you're able to act as a First Responder and carry out a life saving procedure in advance of Helicopter or land ambulance which could be anything from 30 mins.............................. This is why we are now seeing more and more of these vital pieces of equipment in leisure centres and other public buildings etc. Prices are also coming down as demand rises. Often they can be found on a cabinet with a digital lock on them (there are some real sad b****ds out there who'd nick 'em if not locked) with a telephone number next to them to call for lock number. 

If anyone has the chance to attend a training course for AED's then i would thoroughly recommend attending one. Some are free others sadly not but within the space of about 4 hrs max you'll be competent at using one and in doing CPR. There are one or two different models but all basically the same and really simple to use - you place pads in correct location, machine assesses heart rhythm and if a shock is needed it does it for you. It even tells you to stand back and when to press button. It then instructs you on CPR while it assesses again. If one is not needed then you may simply need to do CPR. before you know it professional help will arrive! As soon as you switch machine on it instructs you on what to do and when.

I have taught 16 years olds to use one in less than half an hour. SJA now teach cadets from the age of 14 on the use. Don't forget if someone collapses, check for an airway and see if they are breathing. If they are not breathing immediately send for help and start CPR - don't waste time checking for a pulse!!!!!!

When we are all looking forward to holidays in remote places I would urge all to go on a simple first aid course; you will never regret it!!!!!!


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## Deleted member 47550 (Jul 6, 2017)

I should add that unfortunately I don't attend any rallies (various reasons) but do always make reasonable donations to Air Ambulance and Mountain Rescue Teams where ever we go, so could only make a small donation; I have used an MRT when attending a collapse I saw happen on Helvelyn. Having practiced CPR for competitions many times in the past this was first time to put into practice - I managed 30 mins in poor weather condition before MRT arrived with doctor with AED - all were extremely professional and that person did survive. Had I lived in one of these areas I would undoubtedly join an MRT.


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## Clunegapyears (Jul 6, 2017)

Agree and done.
Good thinking.


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## janstevecairns (Jul 6, 2017)

Great idea and one that will be a great asset at meets.


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## arturo (Jul 6, 2017)

*defibrelater*



Admin said:


> I have been considering carrying an Automated external defibrillator in my van / trailer for use at our rallies / gatherings.
> 
> If a member does have a heart attack at one of our rallies / gatherings this device could literally be the difference between their life and death.
> 
> ...


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## Rooneydog (Jul 7, 2017)

Obanboy666 said:


> Same here, what training if any is required to use it ?



Hi, 
Most modern AED 'speak' the instructions, Ive used one (on first aid training) and it was given to me with no warning. I just did what the machine told me, very simple and worth getting.


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## Stitch (Jul 8, 2017)

I think it's a great idea. I have seen first hand what the out come is of good and and bad resuscitation. It's the difference between seeing the patient going home or having to turn off the ventilator. 

Why stop at one? If we can raise enough money why not have two or three that key members of the club could take on the different meets. I for one would be happy to pay extra.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jul 8, 2017)

With the average age of our regular rallying members I would have thought a defibrillator should be a standard piece of equipment(no offence intended,just an observation)).None of us are getting any younger and you never know what's around the corner,I'm prepared to make a contribution and have voted as such.It could be a potential life saver.


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## mry716 (Jul 9, 2017)

I understand that 1000 people died of a heart attack in the air last year because airlines do not generally have defibrillators and trained staff on board. 

We don't want a similar, even if smaller, camping statistic to be published .................so Definitely YES, and yes to a donation as well.

Perhaps the downfall of such a great idea may be training. My wife is trained for our village defribllator and it isn't a one off session but regular retraining and updating. This is time consuming, so those that do partake for the benefit of others will be much appreciated and along with donations for the machine could there perhaps be a small financial recompense for these kindly folk. Free camping and a dinner out whenever they attend a meet as a trained operative???


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## Admin (Jul 12, 2017)

Thank you to everyone who has posted in this thread or voted.

There are a few things for me to consider now.

At the moment I am leaning towards personally funding the defib without donations and without money from Wild Camping. This would then be fitted into a locker recessed into the trailer. The locker will have a code lock that all members at the meet will have access to. I cannot risk people not being able to wake me, or me being away from my van. This also goes for anyone else it could be left with. Seconds really do count with a heart attack, and wasting even one minute is not good enough.

I attend most of our forum meets and all the rallies. 

I will keep you updated.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Jul 12, 2017)

Why fund it yourself Phil?

53 people have indicated in the poll that they want a defibrillator accessible at rallies and are prepared to make a contribution to one.Just share it out between us all,it would only be the cost of a meal out.


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## The laird (Jul 12, 2017)

Don't agree with you funding it,I think we should donate and raise funds in other ways if we have to .


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## oldish hippy (Jul 12, 2017)

just open it up phil and let those who wish to donate  do so it will help out with the cost of it even if it only a quid it is a quid less that you will have to fund 


how about a table sale at a meet donate something  then proceeds go towards it expect we all will have something we bought and only used once or twice then bought a better one or just decided that we didn't need it after all


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## AllanD (Jul 12, 2017)

Still happy to contribute Phil.

Just an idea, how about having an optional contribution request at membership renewal time, maybe a button that asks for a fixed amount contribution, £5 or £10 for example?


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## Canalsman (Jul 12, 2017)

I think that having such a device at meets is a great way to promote motorhome owners as responsible members of the wider community.

And it has the potential to save a life for a local resident which has to be good news.


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## jeffmossy (Jul 15, 2017)

Great Idea Phil . I agree that the community should donate to the unit and it would also give members at the meet a piece of mind knowing there is one available should it ever be needed . Also for those of us who carry a first aid kit and don't mind letting others use it in emergency, maybe a note in the window to let others know you carry one . Just a thought


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## trixie88 (Jul 16, 2017)

donations could also         be made at meets......big meet coming soon  .....start it going there.......50+ vans.   as suggested previously 

donations of £5 to £10 pervan......or whatever a member wishes to contribute,  either more or less......

what does a donation equal to........a bottle of wine,  a few cans of beer, a bag of logs,  half a dozen cream cakes...amount saved on camping fees.    a night out for wine and dinner......etc  etc.

LOOSER CRUISER  i see on previous post has offered £100 to start it off.....marvelous generous gesture

         .


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## Admin (Jul 16, 2017)

Here is my problem.

I am happy to carry an AED in an easily accessible enclosure fixed to the trailer that I bring to meets. But this will only travel with me to the meets that I attend. I am not happy for it to be posted around the country and risk it being damaged. 

This means that a member (or several members) may have donated towards an AED that is not available at a meet that they are attending. If one of them should need it, then this is an awful situation.

So it becomes difficult for me to accept donations for an AED that won't be at every meet. So then we can either have multiple AEDs or I can provide an AED myself.

Channa has suggested that I hold a raffle. There could be a prize donated to us, or some of the money could pay for the main prize. This is the option I am considering at the moment. We could also do fund raising at meets, and Edina has already offered to run a raffle at the Druridge meet.

The raffle idea seems to be a good option, we could have £1 tickets and people can buy as many as they wish. Then when we reach a set amount of sold tickets, we will do the draw. 

Hopefully, we can fund two AEDs so that we can cover all meets.


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## UFO (Jul 16, 2017)

Support the AED at meets idea, although we have only attended a couple.

Judy and I worked on a woman who collapsed at a BBQ last year and kept her heart pumping with CPR / resuscitation until two ambulances, five paramedics and loads of kit arrived. Talking to people afterwards NO ONE knew how do do CPR and a lot said there were AEDs where they worked but they did not have a clue how to use them or who would know.

If there were sessions at meets on what do do if someone collapses and is not breathing there would be tremendous benefits to the wider community.  There are not always AEDs around and someone needs to know how to use one if there is, it does not make sense to take time reading instructions in what will be a stressful situation, best to just get on with CPR and resuscitation - but as has already been said you need to know how to do it properly.  But is is not difficult.

The woman at the BBQ survived.


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## trixie88 (Jul 16, 2017)

runnach said:


> That was yon Looser Cruiser real diamond geezer who made the offer, trixie. He would get upset if I muscled in on his charitable, offer.
> 
> See post 19.



OOOOPS    SO SORRY LOOSER CRUISER.......... I will try and edit the post.......

thank u so mch for pointing out my huge error runnach........


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## runnach (Jul 16, 2017)

One thing I did suggest , and two ways of achieving it appealing to the good nature of the professional first aid trained instructors in our ranks or possibly British red cross /St Johns is perhaps a couple of meets with a learn first aid theme. Therefore good chance an up to date first aid person at any gathering. Though for clarity because some people cant read not suggesting a pre requisite to hold a meet . 

Whilst not ignoring the idea of an AED, It occurs to me the likelihood of other conditions may arise, for example anaphylactic shock/ reaction from an insect bite or sting broken limbs , burns etc possibly more likely than a cardiac arrest. The same holds true mentioned by someone else it is a skill beneficial too in the communities we visit and useful in our personal daily lives.

Last week at my meet one member slipped and fell of a motorhome step and thankfully OK, but I am not sure any of us could have done too much other than call for an ambulance and heaven knows how long that would have took .

Even at meets with no AED half a clue to administering CPR has to be better than feeling helpless.

I guess I am suggesting we could incorporate something a bit more generic . your thoughts? 

Channa


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## RichardHelen262 (Jul 16, 2017)

I'm more than happy to provide training. I have training dummies, training AED's and run an accredited centre for delivering prehospital care. We also teach the new CitizenAID course based on Run, Hell, Tell. 

I will be at the Druridge meet and the Henley meet and if people want me to I will bring some training kit and first aid booklets with me and can host an ad hoc training workshop for anyone interested. 

Helen


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## Deleted member 56601 (Jul 18, 2017)

*Druridge Bay Raffle*

Sorry for any confusion. It appears a raffle would compete with a fund raising project Runnach is involved in, so I'll do one at another meet.


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## trixie88 (Jul 18, 2017)

Edina said:


> Sorry for any confusion. It appears a raffle would compete with a fund raising project Runnach is involved in, so I'll do one at another meet.



OH CHRIS>>>>Nooooooo

the tombola for the roof, as i read it, is being run at the visitor center......AS SAID AS I READ IT.

IAM JUST REPEATING WHAT I HAVE SAID ON THR OTHER THREAD.

THE RAFFLE IS FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE WILD CAMPING COMMUNITY.....AS IT IS A BIG MEET......IT IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR RAISING FUNDS FOR DEFIB>   FOR THE BENEFIT OF ALL. .


PLEASE RECONSIDER......


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## hotrats (Jul 20, 2017)

Happy to donate,just hope not to try it out,hehe.


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