# Spongy Floor in 2014 Autotrail Scout



## F1 Scout (Nov 15, 2016)

I am returning My 2014 Scout to the dealer this Friday with a soft spongy area of floor near the habitation door. I believe caravans can suffer this same issue. 
I am concerned that this could be caused through water ingress/damp and have little confidence in my dealer through previous problems (quality of work and poor understanding of the vehicle). Whilst I appreciate the short notice, I would very much appreciate any advice. Is it likely to be a water ingress problem? Is there a suitable fix other than back to the factory for major repairs?

Mike 
Cumbria


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## trevskoda (Nov 15, 2016)

There is a liq/solution which when pored onto wood once dryed soaks in and hardens /bit like a super glue or two pack thin epoxy. 
If the floor is bad then its a strip out and complete rebuild from ground up in most cases.


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## Jimbanks (Nov 15, 2016)

*floor*



F1 Scout said:


> I am returning My 2014 Scout to the dealer this Friday with a soft spongy area of floor near the habitation door. I believe caravans can suffer this same issue.
> I am concerned that this could be caused through water ingress/damp and have little confidence in my dealer through previous problems (quality of work and poor understanding of the vehicle). Whilst I appreciate the short notice, I would very much appreciate any advice. Is it likely to be a water ingress problem? Is there a suitable fix other than back to the factory for major repairs?
> 
> Mike
> Cumbria


Hi, my caravan suffered from the same problem and was fixed by injecting epoxy resin into the spongy area.
Jim


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## The laird (Nov 15, 2016)

Spongy floor usually comes as a result of a water leak,lamination I'm sure it's called or de lam.as others stated there is a resin for it ,holes are drilled injected with resin then dowels plug the floor.
This is a permanent repair as long as the source is stemned .
Have you been getting habitation checks done as it should've been picked up with damp readings.
Have you guys been chesty at all possible due to damp?


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## yorkslass (Nov 15, 2016)

I know it's a bit late in the day, but does your van have to go to the original dealer, or would Autotrail let you take it to another dealership? Given its age I'm assuming it's still covered by warranty. I would be wanting to know
   1) what's caused the problem, and
   2) why it wasn't picked up at the hab check.
   As you say, doesn't inspire confidence in the dealer.
   Let us know how you get on.:goodluck:


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## Robmac (Nov 15, 2016)

Delamination usually happens in high traffic areas, doesn't necessarily mean water ingress. Usually in front of the kitchen in a MH. 

On a van of that age, I would say that the ply floor wasn't the best quality for it to be happening after a couple of years.

Should be treatable under warranty.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 15, 2016)

ive done my van floor .basicaly when i got it i dident notice ,or because it was the layout and size and price i wanted and frankly struggled especially on the size and layout  turned a blind eye to .anyway  no damp except a very small amount near the door caused by the ill fit and the perished rubber seal  has let a amount of water in at some time ,both cured . the lower layer of ply open to the elements  is perfect , but with the traffic for some 18 or so years  in front of the hob and sink area the top layer of ply has parted company with the poly insulation ,giving a spongy feel to the floor .  22 quid on ebay you get a kit of resin and activator ,30 0r so wood plugs and a syringe . you drill holes 1 eighth drill into the top layer of ply just penetrating the polly insulation ,dont go into the lower layer of ply . at six inch spacing .i used a card template 6 inch square  mix the kit  and inject into each hole with syringe ,plug at once , carry on with the other holes drilled ,no need to put weights on the top ply as this resin kit wont expand as foam will . you will find it stinks to high heaven and it will get very hot as the resin/activator sets . this weather you get 20 25 mins to complete  the job before the stuff is unusable in warm weather no time at all ,by the way push the wooden plugs in about two thirds way in ,and when set hard chop them down there will be some resin seep . ,i did mine in fact i did the whole floor not just the soft spots , i have saved some resin and activator for when i do the door  its only a bit about 4 inch square  so no prob realy .  the floor now is as solid as a rock  .so  delam of a floor is not only caused by damp and unless the bottom layer of ply is rotten  its only a cheap diy fix ,forget the dealers prices ,unless of course  its a warranty job  ,some vans can suffer this proble in as little as two or three years ,alarmingly enough . ive also replaced a small area of old damp damaged wall boarding near the top of the front window ,luckyly no real probs with the wood structure it was in quite good nick for 18 or so . all else is fine ,thats unless i find differently that is but its looking good .pluss doing it yourself is quite satisfying and enjoyable ,i am on the hunt for more to do . i always have been crazy . hope my explanation is ok and of use .nice to be able to give a few hints now .


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 15, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Delamination usually happens in high traffic areas, doesn't necessarily mean water ingress. Usually in front of the kitchen in a MH.
> 
> On a van of that age, I would say that the ply floor wasn't the best quality for it to be happening after a couple of years.
> 
> Should be treatable under warranty.



no the sandwich floors fitted now tend to be flimsier than of old and suffer from delam probs early , everything is cut to the bone ,for weight and of course price of manufacture .


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## Robmac (Nov 15, 2016)

mandrake said:


> no the sandwich floors fitted now tend to be flimsier than of old and suffer from delam probs early , everything is cut to the bone ,for weight and of course price of manufacture .



That's pretty much what I was saying?


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 15, 2016)

Robmac said:


> That's pretty much what I was saying?



way i started the answer  the no meant no your right ,i know one of my quirks , i am old . and remember when floors of vans were 1 inch thick wood fixed on 4x4 battens bolted through steel chassis box section . heavy as hell but they lasted more than 5 weeks


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## molly 2 (Nov 16, 2016)

Problem with Floor delamination repair with epoxy system is removing the floor covering, dealers cut out he floor covering with a stanly  knife leaving cut edges visible .not good on a new van.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 16, 2016)

molly 2 said:


> Problem with Floor delamination repair with epoxy system is removing the floor covering, dealers cut out he floor covering with a stanly  knife leaving cut edges visible .not good on a new van.



yes when this happens its usual the floor covering is ruined . luckily my van required new floor covering ,so it was junked . i have some new ready for putting down ,and luckily free as weve had new carpets  fitted in the house . there will be  wood laminate in the van doorway  ,but carpet in the rest ,i still love carpet under my toes ,not into this wood stuff realy, ok its easier to look after but with care carpets are fine .


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## maingate (Nov 16, 2016)

Robmac said:


> Delamination usually happens in high traffic areas, doesn't necessarily mean water ingress. Usually in front of the kitchen in a MH.
> 
> On a van of that age, I would say that the ply floor wasn't the best quality for it to be happening after a couple of years.
> 
> Should be treatable under warranty.



I basically agree and believe that the OP should get under the van and have a good look at it. It may well be caused by dampness but that is not a foregone conclusion. I remember some years ago, some Autotrails had this problem and it turned out that some of the metal frame of the chassis had not been fitted. These were just 'stiffeners' to support the floor and not integral to the chassis.

In fact, if it were not dampness, I would be looking at beefing up that area by the Hab door.


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## Nesting Zombie (Nov 16, 2016)

Have you not got a Double or Sandwich construction floor, ?.

I've got a very old Autotrail Chieftain, Floor is Approximately 12mm Rhino Ply, Then 40mm Polystyrene, Then Topped with 5mm Ply at a guess.. I've got age & Use related soft spots by the Door & Midway high traffic areas.
Not really a problem,,,I'me just Laying  Laminat flooring on top..


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## spigot (Nov 16, 2016)

Robmac said:


> On a van of that age, I would say that the ply floor wasn't the best quality for it to be happening after a couple of years.
> 
> Should be treatable under warranty.



It might not be ply, I've heard of manufacturers using chipboard or fibreboard & not marine quality either.


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## molly 2 (Nov 16, 2016)

hairydog said:


> True, but there is no reason why it can't be fixed by drilling upwards from below, avoiding damage to the floor covering. But lazy dealers won't want to go to that much effort.


 Their is one reason why some vans can't be done from underneath ,like my van it still has the metal original floor Floor pan .coach built.  nu  venture  rio


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 16, 2016)

hairydog said:


> True, but there is no reason why it can't be fixed by drilling upwards from below, avoiding damage to the floor covering. But lazy dealers won't want to go to that much effort.



big mistake  do not drill the underside ever  for this type of job . you cannot use the resin system from the underside as the resin flows from the top to the lower areas of the floor via gravity . the delam is caused by the top layer of ply parting company with the insulation layer ,and the insulation layer can part company with the bottom layer of ply .drilling from the top is the only way for the resin to flow into the sandwich ,should you penetrate the bottom layer whilst drilling the resin just flows out through the hole  .doing this will create massive problems something you dont want . also if you should do the job from the bottom can you tell me ,unless the resin is injected under pressure how the resin is supposed to reach the underside of the top layer of ply .


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 16, 2016)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Have you not got a Double or Sandwich construction floor, ?.
> 
> I've got a very old Autotrail Chieftain, Floor is Approximately 12mm Rhino Ply, Then 40mm Polystyrene, Then Topped with 5mm Ply at a guess.. I've got age & Use related soft spots by the Door & Midway high traffic areas.
> Not really a problem,,,I'me just Laying  Laminat flooring on top..



yes a quick cure laminate on the top ,only trouble is all three layers when bonded together produce a strong product ,but singularly the ply and the polly are rather weak and could after time fail ,it has been known for delam floors to fail . re laminating is  a quick cheap diy job  and will restore the floors full rigidity/strength after all thats what they start off with i belive when the built your van ,a delam floor is a weak spot in the van structure and leaving  a few small insignificant soft spots unattended will cause them to spread over time to areas very hard to reach like units  and probably cause a very expensive floor failure in time . thats if its financially viable to do .


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## m30 (Nov 16, 2016)

After reading through this thread, i find it unbelievable that wood is being used for anything other than the upper floor of a double floor set-up, or for anything other than internal fitting and  furniture. Have they never heard of wood free construction? Its not as if Autotrail's are sold as a budget brand either is it? 
Tell 'em you want your money back, cut your loses and buy a European van.

Stu


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## trevskoda (Nov 16, 2016)

m30 said:


> After reading through this thread, i find it unbelievable that wood is being used for anything other than the upper floor of a double floor set-up, or for anything other than internal fitting and  furniture. Have they never heard of wood free construction? Its not as if Autotrail's are sold as a budget brand either is it?
> Tell 'em you want your money back, cut your loses and buy a European van.
> 
> Stu



I agree in this day and age they should be using what big boat builders use,its a man made material which looks like wood and can be planed sawn sanded but is water resistant,think its a plastic or something down that line.
Truth is it may put prices up or there doing it on the cheep.
I have just striped a caravan because of damp & to be honest i thought the build was a pile of c--p and i would never buy one or a campervan if thats the way there built.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 16, 2016)

when you realy look at it for the price you pay for either type new, you not realy getting a substantial product are you ,but the thing is they need to be lightweight ,pretty uncomplicated to build and basicaly made from the cheapest materials available ,even though the price of a new caravan or motorhome may not reflect the last bit . and nothing comes much cheaper than thin plywood ,chipboard and polystyrene ,think the dearest item may be the ally thats if they still use that nowadays ,most van bodies seem like a bonded material now dont know what it is no ally realy ,and front and rear grp panels .


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## maingate (Nov 16, 2016)

The problem these days seem to be the battle to keep motorhomes under 3.5 Tons and still have a decent payload.

Customers want a bigger, roomier van with a huge Fridge Freezer, better heating system, bigger fresh water tank (which means bigger waste water tank) plus spacious bathroom and shower. There is only so much the manufacturers can do to keep the weight down. In the UK, we have the C1 licence option for bigger vans but this does not apply in Europe, although we are coming into line with Europe since the change to UK driving licences (no more automatic C1 entitlement).

We are turning into Glampers, not Campers.


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## spigot (Nov 17, 2016)

hairydog said:


> I can't agree. If they are using chipboard or fibreboard, they are not manufacturers: they are incompetent bodgers.



They are certainly not incompetent bodgers, they are hard-nosed businessmen screwing the gullible punters.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 17, 2016)

the floor i have in my van is ply polly and ply sandwich . now whether its marine ply ,i dont know .but after 18 or so years the lower ply thats open to the elements is unmarked  and there is no protective coating that i know of ,like a plastic membrain the ply uppermost on the top could be ordinary ply ,but other than some staining from i asume spills looks in good nick . by the way the resin i have used has hardened and the floor is once again solid ,no springiness at all ,see how it fairs over time ,but i am pleased ,so for the outlay of 22 quid for the kit ,1.50 for the 8 mill drill which i dident  have and about half an hours work  all seems fine ,oh and i had to cut off the protruding dowels with a chisel  once set ,that was the hardest bit realy


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## trevskoda (Nov 17, 2016)

Why dont they make the floor from alloy sheet double skin with a heat retaining epoxy foam filler between which will not rot.


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## harrow (Nov 17, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Why dont they make the floor from alloy sheet double skin with a heat retaining epoxy foam filler between which will not rot.



Trev the manufacturers don't want it to last too long because you would never buy a new one.
_
"Built-in obsolescence in industrial design and economics is a policy of planning or designing a product with an artificially limited useful life, so it will become obsolete (that is, unfashionable or no longer functional) after a certain period of time." _

And we can make more profit when you buy a new one !


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## trevskoda (Nov 17, 2016)

harrow said:


> Trev the manufacturers don't want it to last too long because you would never buy a new one.
> _
> "Built-in obsolescence in industrial design and economics is a policy of planning or designing a product with an artificially limited useful life, so it will become obsolete (that is, unfashionable or no longer functional) after a certain period of time." _
> 
> And we can make more profit when you buy a new one !



Yes know that but we fools give in rather than go back and complain or stop buying,motor trade is tops at this behaviour.


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## molly 2 (Nov 17, 2016)

I have a friend with a new caravan yes he has had load's of problems  .unlike most tuggers he uses his  every week , not 2weeks a year like most ,the build quality just won't take it, total crap.


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## maingate (Nov 17, 2016)

hairydog said:


> The argument about weight doesn't cut it. A proper marine ply and insulation sandwich is much lighter than chipboard or fibreboard. The difference is that plywood works better, lasts longer, is stronger and weighs less. But it costs more.



So why are the costs of a new motorhome rocketing?

Especially on Van conversions that already have a metal floor.


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## yorkslass (Nov 17, 2016)

maingate said:


> So why are the costs of a new motorhome rocketing?
> 
> Especially on Van conversions that already have a metal floor.



Cos they can.

Manufacturers realise that some want smaller/dryer vans so have jumped on the bandwagon. Van conversions used to be the preserve of small converters, but not any more.


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## F1 Scout (Nov 17, 2016)

*Thanks for the info*

Great response and thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. The area of the floor is just inside the habitation door and towards the kitchen so definitely a high traffic area. At two and a half years (new May 2014) the van has been serviced twice by the supplying dealer and full habitation/damp report provided. I have been underneath and the floor looks and feel sound. I can confirm that this will be a warranty repair. 
My main concern is that I had to return the van to the dealer at about one year old as every window was leaking in. When away during some heavy rain I noticed small pools of water on each window sill. 

Well thanks again and to the dealer we go tomorrow!


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## The laird (Nov 17, 2016)

Good luck and we hope it's good news on the check up.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 17, 2016)

F1 Scout said:


> Great response and thanks to all who have taken the time to reply. The area of the floor is just inside the habitation door and towards the kitchen so definitely a high traffic area. At two and a half years (new May 2014) the van has been serviced twice by the supplying dealer and full habitation/damp report provided. I have been underneath and the floor looks and feel sound. I can confirm that this will be a warranty repair.
> My main concern is that I had to return the van to the dealer at about one year old as every window was leaking in. When away during some heavy rain I noticed small pools of water on each window sill.
> 
> Well thanks again and to the dealer we go tomorrow!



i can understand your concern after only a couple of years . every window leaking and now the floor problems  .shouldent realy happen in such a short space of time ,especially considering the probable high outlay for the van there not cheap .you could understand it after 6 or seven years but not two and a half .my old thing hasent half the problems by the sound of it .anyway good luck with getting it sorted ,i do think i would be having stern words with the dealer .


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## Obanboy666 (Nov 17, 2016)

mandrake said:


> i can understand your concern after only a couple of years . every window leaking and now the floor problems  .shouldent realy happen in such a short space of time ,especially considering the probable high outlay for the van there not cheap .you could understand it after 6 or seven years but not two and a half .my old thing hasent half the problems by the sound of it .anyway good luck with getting it sorted ,i do think i would be having stern words with the dealer .



Had the same with my 2 year old £43,000 Swift, back to factory for windows and interior wall replacement then 6 months later damp in rear floor. 
Took a hit selling it but I was over the moon when it went. Now have a PVC, no leaks, better build quality and no wooden floor to rot. Wouldn't have another C Class given !
Would have loved a Vantage PVC but lwb with a few extras was the best part of £60,000. Went for a Devon conversion, great build quality without the 'bling' and expense of the Vantage.


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## village (Sep 5, 2017)

*Spongy floor*



mandrake said:


> the floor i have in my van is ply polly and ply sandwich . now whether its marine ply ,i dont know .but after 18 or so years the lower ply thats open to the elements is unmarked  and there is no protective coating that i know of ,like a plastic membrain the ply uppermost on the top could be ordinary ply ,but other than some staining from i asume spills looks in good nick . by the way the resin i have used has hardened and the floor is once again solid ,no springiness at all ,see how it fairs over time ,but i am pleased ,so for the outlay of 22 quid for the kit ,1.50 for the 8 mill drill which i dident  have and about half an hours work  all seems fine ,oh and i had to cut off the protruding dowels with a chisel  once set ,that was the hardest bit realy



Hi could you let me know the product name and where you purchased it as I have the same problem thanks in advance


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## RoaminRog (Sep 5, 2017)

village said:


> Hi could you let me know the product name and where you purchased it as I have the same problem thanks in advance



Stop spilling your wine Tracey!!


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 5, 2017)

village said:


> Hi could you let me know the product name and where you purchased it as I have the same problem thanks in advance



hi been searching e bay for the kit i used on my van floor ,unfortunately i cannot find the exact one this is the only type i can find .Caravan Spongy Floor Delamination Fluid & Gloves & 30 Dowels + Syringe | eBay      the kit i used was resin and hardener in separate containers where you mixed the two and injected into the floor ,here is a you tube vidio showing the repair sequence How to fix a spongy floor in a motorhome, RV or caravan using non expanding glue - YouTube its realy easy if a bit messy .thing to notice his van he repairs is not old and seems unaffected by damp .its basically a heavy traffic area ,thats what causes most problems realy    i just thought i would add if you use a foam type expanding kit ,you must support the floor from underneath ,and make sure you have some heavy weights to place inside  on the floor or youcan blow the floor andend up with an uneaven floor ,biger problem than in the first place


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 5, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Of course you can. You have to do it carefully, drilling through the bottom skin, through the insulation, then stop drilling as you reach the top skin. It is more difficult, but it is certainly possible.



yes its possible but the majority that do this method usually inject the resin in under pressure,thats more for professionals with the correct equipment . diy is usualy drill down through the top skin untill you reach the insulation ,usualy with one inch between the holes in a square pattern  then inject the resin untill it oozes out of an adjacent hole then whack a dowel in ,do each hole in turn then leave a day or so mine took a while longer to set as i did mine during the winter ,chisel the protruding dowels then sand flat its as easy as that .the only real benefit of doing the job from the underside is you dont damage the floor covering inside the van .


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## Deleted member 775 (Sep 6, 2017)

hairydog said:


> I'd take the carpet up and do it from above if that was an option, but I was talking about professionals doing it where they didn't want to damage the floor covering.
> In my experience, delamination isn't a damp thing: it is just high traffic areas that suffer it. Near the entrance or in front of the kitchen. Usually places were you can get to the floor covering fairly easily.



yes my van floor covering  was badly in need of replacing it was minging realy  so up it came and the floor treated solid as a rock now, i suppose if it had been a newer van needing doing  like many newish vans unfortunately need i may have had it done from underneath. talking about damp in vans ,we were at jacobs mount camp site ,and opposite there was a big nearly new van ,all singing and dancing job with panoramic front window forget the make think it was a buccaneer  mabey 20k of van when new  .the couple had had it stored there for a few months but not visited it recently ,you could see some condensation on the front windows  dident realy look good  but  you should have seen the literal devastation inside when the owner opened up ,the front blinds were green mould  and the inner walls were frankly wet through  the front window that extended onto the roof line seemed to be leaking  big time .looked a right off realy but would definitely have cost lots of dosh to put right


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## maingate (Sep 6, 2017)

village said:


> Hi could you let me know the product name and where you purchased it as I have the same problem thanks in advance



The first thing you should check is underneath the van in that area. There was a similar problem a few years back and it was found that Autotrail had forgotten to fit some of the floor support steel brackets to the chassis.


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## jacquigem (May 18, 2018)

Hi I am pretty sure I have this problem on our 2010 autotrail Mohawk.I dont want to attempt repair myself so does anyone have any recommendations for where to go to get this fixed. We live in Wakefield Yorkshire but being retired could travel to get the job done.


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## yorkslass (May 18, 2018)

Just  googled caravan repairs west yorkshire for you. Give it a try as there are too many to list.


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## molly 2 (May 18, 2018)

Robmac said:


> Delamination usually happens in high traffic areas, doesn't necessarily mean water ingress. Usually in front of the kitchen in a MH.
> 
> On a van of that age, I would say that the ply floor wasn't the best quality for it to be happening after a couple of years.
> 
> Should be treatable under warranty.


.    My last van had spongy floor problems, it was down  to a faulty floor panel delaminating ,adhesive failing not damp ,repaired by manufacturer. Down side is they cut out the floor covering to save taking out any panel's


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## GeoffL (May 18, 2018)

Robmac said:


> Delamination usually happens in high traffic areas, doesn't necessarily mean water ingress. Usually in front of the kitchen in a MH.
> 
> On a van of that age, I would say that the ply floor wasn't the best quality for it to be happening after a couple of years.
> 
> Should be treatable under warranty.



I concur. In high traffic areas, the upper ply layer flexes down and compresses the insulation. After many, many compression and release cycles, the insulation can separate from the upper ply layer without water ingress. The repair is relatively simple to carry out (I did this on my last caravan) and epoxy repair kits are available at some caravan accessory shops. Once carried out, the repair should be as good as original. HTH, Geoff


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