# Choosing the right motorhome



## SeeYa (May 14, 2010)

This was originally posted in the wrong thread and I'm told desrves one of its own! 

I'm currently looking at motorhomes suitable for a single guy whose pretty domesticated (ie can cook, will clean etc) for long term use.

From what I've seen, I'll be looking for a 20/22 footer set up for no more than four berths. I'm attracted to an A-class with the drop down bed over the front seats which seems to offers a more airey feel (while on the road) but I have seen plenty of interesting coachbuilts that (I think) would suit me just fine.

Given that my interest is mostly in continental Europe (maybe into Turkey), I'm also thinking LHD would be best and, despite what I've been told by a salesman, managed to get what looks like a competitive insurance quote ~£330 unlimited days in Europe (inc RAC cover) for a 2000 Karmann Bahia on Merc 312 Sprinter chassis.

So, limited desk and a bit of field research has got me to a point where my absolute tops £17.5k budget and expectation of 30mpg (!!!) might buy me a 1999 Hymer 544 (Ducato), a 2000 Karmann Bahi 635(Sprinter), a 2002 Swift Bel-Air (which are all real and on my, probably all too naive, shortlist) or any one of any number of the many vehicles currently on offer.

So, the first question is, does anyone have any experience of the three named and/or have any suggestions about what might better fit my general bill?

The next one is more difficult cos it gets down to the nitty gritty of how my choice should be guided in terms of what's actually required/needed and what's wanted or desireable in terms of functions and features. For example, I understand the bit about availability of Butane and Propane in different countries but haven't yet got to grips with this smart idea of a bigger tank using standard LPG from the pump!

Finally (for the moment at least), I live on the Wirral so, if there's anyone who lives or is visiting hereabouts and might be interested in exchanging some home truths about what I'm planning in return for some refreshments in a nearby hostelry, just let let me know and ...

.... thanks for bearing with me while I struggle on with this!

Pete


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## SeeYa (May 14, 2010)

*Things German*



***** said:


> ......
> Personally, I would only buy a German M/H as the quality is usually there and the showers are made for using ......



Also very true of German suits which are cut for guys who aren't likely to get disappear from view if they turn sideways!!!


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## vwalan (May 14, 2010)

given what you have told us i would say better to look for a merc 814 van conversion .or a 6-7 ton truck convertion . gives much more usable space .specially if you use a box on the back. 
can be made very secure and a favourite with long term travellers .
best to have rear wheel drive , none electric diesels ,and a base vehicle that is current in the country,s you want to visit.
 an lpg tank is ok ,but always have space for a couple of local bottles as its not available easily in all countries.
a van- truck conversion can be easier to park sometimes as it may not look to like a camper. blends in with local vehicles. 
cheers hope that gives you something to think about. 
i do travel europe and maroc ,tunisia,etc do get further down sometimes so under stand the sort of vehicle best suited. 
cheers alan.


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## ajs (May 14, 2010)

SeeYa said:


> So, limited desk and a bit of field research has got me to a point where my absolute tops £17.5k budget and expectation of 30mpg (!!!) might buy me a 1999 Hymer 544 (Ducato), a 2000 Karmann Bahi 635(Sprinter), a 2002 Swift Bel-Air (which are all real and on my, probably all too naive, shortlist) or any one of any number of the many vehicles currently on offer.
> 
> 
> Pete




 add this to your list.... mine...2.8T ducato CI riviera 181 6 birth for 17.5k... it's yours 

 regards
aj


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## vwalan (May 14, 2010)

as for gas i carry spanish and maroc bottles .i can fill both at pumps .but they are cheap in there own country .maroc 4 quid a bottle spain about 11 quid. also can fill calor bottles and just about any bottle you have (not 20mm clip on ).buy e bay adaptors and speak to one of the auto gas places they sell adaptors for different bottles to calor. if travelling in warm climates use butane or propane .in africa its more likely to be pentane thats why its cheap. 
cheers alan


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## vwalan (May 14, 2010)

hi ***** ,i have maroc bottles here full as i have said they actually use alot of pentane never had a problem .but then i dont camp here in winter. just had 1117 litres of propane delivered this week ,by calor .they put that into a not quite empty 1200 litre tank .so that sorts the 80percent fill carry on. 
there is no 80percent switch off on the big calor tanks ,only a small liquid bleed off . you open a valve gas escapes, when liquid comes out you know its nearly full. i can pump gas by a hand pump into bottles from the tank . i used to have a gas tank on the truck but took it off as bottles are far more conveniant. if you run out and cant get the tank full you are in stuck .i can chuck a bottle and replace with a foreign bottle. normal bottles are cheap refillable (so called )are very expensive. 
cheers alan.


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## vanmandan (May 14, 2010)

as usual, *****'s talking a lot of sense.
personally, I'd go with the Karman  Merc Bahia.
All Fiats are crap in my book. (retired mechanic).
Looks like you've done your homework.
Go with your instinct.
best wishes & may the force be with you.


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## derekfaeberwick (May 14, 2010)

Aye, and you would know. Ne'er mind, it's keeping OUR posts number up innit!


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## vwalan (May 14, 2010)

hi derk .how are you .filled up lately?
lets not go too far down the gas route. if op. is wanting to long term he requires a good base vehicle .one that can if needed be fixed in any country. 
very robust if going to turkey etc. 
well insulated for summer and winter. 
could have a really nice truck converted for full time living and  still have change for a m,bike in the back.
money dont go far when we talk factory conversions and definately british campers dont like being driven on off the tarmac roads .
cheers alan.


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## maingate (May 14, 2010)

If you are talking about Ducato`s of 1999 vintage, they have problems with 5th gear breaking up. Any broken bits can drop down into the box and cause even more problems.

Some owners even fit powerful magnets to the gearbox in case it happens and the magnets keep the bits out of harms way.

AJ`s van should be a good un. I think it has a different gearbox (later model). His van has had one careful owner. The one before him.


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## SeeYa (May 14, 2010)

ajs said:


> add this to your list.... mine...2.8T ducato CI riviera 181 6 birth for 17.5k... it's yours
> 
> regards
> aj



Thanks for the offer but I think that it's going to be too big with too many berths for my needs; good luck with its sale.

Pete


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## vwalan (May 14, 2010)

turkey is great but not so good in winter. made that mistake along time ago. even tunisia is quite cold in january. 
when is this trip likely to be and what time of year?
i still find it a problem with front wheel drive on grass and even a little water on mud. i watch lots struggle to move when away get rear wheel drive . or the fiat daily seems to behave its self now .some nice convertions done on them .again look at german firms. 
if you are thinking of long term trips then certainly 5ton and above is much more suited ,as you do gather things as you travel. 
do your homework its too late if you get it wrong. 
cheers alan.
ps ..seeya i use a mini artic combination mitsubishi canter and a lynton 20ft trailer. been lots of places .and got stuck many times. 4x4 would be nice.


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## SeeYa (May 14, 2010)

Thanks for the inputs, guys.  As I've said, it all looks so simple in the jar; simple that is until you unscrew the lid and ...

... so much to learn if I'm to do it proper cos, frankly, I couldn't tell a Merc 814 or 6-8 tonner from a bobsleigh which also wouldn't very good over potholes! 

Maybe it's time to stop thinking, start doing and follow my instincts - ie German suits are great so the vans must be as well!

WTF; I'll just open another bottle of red and sort it all out tomorrow!

Pete


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## ajs (May 15, 2010)

maingate said:


> If you are talking about Ducato`s of 1999 vintage, they have problems with 5th gear breaking up. Any broken bits can drop down into the box and cause even more problems.
> 
> Some owners even fit powerful magnets to the gearbox in case it happens and the magnets keep the bits out of harms way.
> 
> AJ`s van should be a good un. I think it has a different gearbox (later model). His van has had one careful owner. The one before him.




 lameplate... he knows nuuurrrfin  what ever he gets it will be wrong
cus you only get it right the second van you buy 

  .. seeya 


 regards 
aj


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## biggirafe (May 15, 2010)

ajs said:


> lameplate... he knows nuuurrrfin  what ever he gets it will be wrong
> cus you only get it right the second van you buy
> 
> .. seeya
> ...



THAT is the most sensible thing you have ever said..... bugger I'm speechless


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## ajs (May 15, 2010)

.

 OI U2....knock it orrrfff will ya  .... i don't do tongues... 
well... not with men anyway


 regards 
aj


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## SeeYa (May 15, 2010)

Sorry to spoil your fun, guys, but I've now put the red to one side, I'm back on track and still wondering how/where to find the perfect van - can I use that term or do I have to say Motorhome?

So, I now know a bit more about purpose built vans and conclude that German could be good especially on the continent of mainland Europe.  I also have a sense what might be possible with, but am actually a little put off by, conversions and am totally confused about gas - what is the difference between, lpg, butane and propane and does the use of one limit the use of the other wrt to installed apparatus.

I've also read something somewhere about an Alco or AL-KO chassis and air suspension - what's that all about?

Tiring of me, yet?  No?  Then, note to self: must try harder!!!

SeeYa

Pete


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## SeeYa (May 15, 2010)

Sorry (again); also get the feeling that front wheel drive vehicles may not deal with off-road slippery conditions very well.   Based on comments about Ducato gearboxes, am I right in thinking that most modern vans/trucks on which motorhomes are based are front wheel drive with integrated engine and gearbox mounted transversely - gawd, I'm now way out of my depth!

Pete


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## ajs (May 15, 2010)

.

 go get yersef a rangerover...

 regards 
aj


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## maingate (May 15, 2010)

Rear wheel drive is better than front wheel drive but there are less options about to choose from.

Alko chassis means that the cab manufacturers own chassis has been discarded and a different one fitted (google Al-Ko for details)

Air suspension is a means of firming up soggy old rear suspensions and can be varied to give a better, smoother ride.

You should have started with the easy questions first.


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## SeeYa (May 15, 2010)

Interesting.  Am I right in thinking that Merc Sprinter and Ford Transits are the only ones that really do RWD in commercial offering with Fiat Ducato and Boxers being FWD?

Does the presence of an Al-Ko chassis imply front wheel drive?

Are there any motorhome groups around the Wirral that I could plague?

SeeYa


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## vwalan (May 15, 2010)

sprinter ,vw lt ,transit,fiat daily ,isuzu,mitsubishi,merc vario,ldv convoy ,all truck convertions. remember all motor homes are converted vans really. 
most under 3.5 ton arent really suitable for long terming as there is hardly any pay load.


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## maingate (May 15, 2010)

Correct, anything with the ALko is FWD.


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## biggirafe (May 15, 2010)

SeeYa said:


> am totally confused about gas - what is the difference between, lpg, butane and propane and does the use of one limit the use of the other wrt to installed apparatus.



OMG you aked about gas, I'm surprised you have not had a hundred replys to this  

LPG and Propane - basikly the same stuff
Butane a different gas that is good for summer use but many say is no good in winter, never used it myself as it tends to be more expensive.

As far as I am aware you can use both and equipment in vans will handle both but you will need different regulators, thats the bit that fits on the bottle or connects to the bottle and 'regulates' how fast the gas comes out of the bottle.

My advise is if you can afford it then get yourself a refillable bottle such as a 'Gaslow' and then you can fill up at petrol stations that sell LPG for cars which is the same stuff that comes in the orange propane bottles in the UK. Except its about half the price when you buy it from the petrol station. Its legal and the bottles and the refil systems can be used with adapters pretty much anywhere in europe. 

There are other systems and I'm sure others will now post about all the wonderful refil gadgets and types of systems there are out there because we love a good GAS thread on here


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## vwalan (May 15, 2010)

dont get him confused .propane and butane are both lpg. lpg stands for liquid petroleom gas. 
autogas is what is sold at the pumps. in uk the same tanker delivers propane to both auto and your tank at home. in other countries it may vary. 
certainly in north africa alot of bottles are filled with a high pentane gas ,its also liquid in its compressed state. 
you can fill normal bottles with an adaptor sold on ebay or with adaptors to a bulk head fitting from the official autogas fitting places .
i use spanish and maroc bottles sometimes calor all can be filled . 
propane is used up north in winter as it doesnt freeze so easy. i have had bother with propane in the depths of winter. 
strangely when you are in the snow up the atlas mountains the butane -pentane as never caused a problem .may be air pressure plays apart as well. 
cheers alan.


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## biggirafe (May 15, 2010)

vwalan said:


> dont get him confused .propane and butane are both lpg. lpg stands for liquid petroleom gas.
> autogas is what is sold at the pumps. in uk the same tanker delivers propane to both auto and your tank at home. in other countries it may vary.
> certainly in north africa alot of bottles are filled with a high pentane gas ,its also liquid in its compressed state.
> you can fill normal bottles with an adaptor sold on ebay or with adaptors to a bulk head fitting from the official autogas fitting places .
> ...



Don't get him confused you say LOL


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## SeeYa (May 16, 2010)

I know that I ask a lot of questions but is there anywhere where you guys and gals publish information about your own pride and joys.

This happens on other forums - not necessarily motorhome related - and is a very useful source of information for total newbies like me.

Maybe it could be added into a personal profile; maybe it just needs a thread where people posted once and then edited as things got updated; maybe ....

... it's there somewhere already!

See ya

Pete


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## maingate (May 16, 2010)

John Wickersham has written a number of books on campers and motorhomes. They can be very informative.

Go on to amazon.com and type in his name as author and you should find something.


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## Kontiki (May 16, 2010)

If you can it's worth while visiting one of the motorhome shows around the country, you will be able to view a large number of vans & get lots of useful information. There is one coming up in Stratford Stratford Show in a couple of weeks & one in Cheshire Northern Motorcaravan SHow in July. If you are going join one of the clubs that will be there to get a small discount on the tickets (there are a few other free forums that oraganise rallies)

If you can you can always camp at these outdoor shows, you will usually find people around you only to willing to give you advice. I wouldn't say it's necessarily the best place to buy a van from the dealers but it depends on how desperate they are to sell.


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## biggirafe (May 16, 2010)

SeeYa said:


> I know that I ask a lot of questions but is there anywhere where you guys and gals publish information about your own pride and joys.
> 
> This happens on other forums - not necessarily motorhome related - and is a very useful source of information for total newbies like me.
> 
> ...



If you use the search tool it often gets what you want, for instance search for 'refillable gas' or 'gaslow'


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## n8rbos (May 17, 2010)

hiya seeya, i too wanted a van to travel europe in! having done it a coupla yrs ago on my bike. went to the shows (yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn) went to dealers(yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn) looked on sbmcc and lo and behold ..inspiration.... first i decided what i wanted from a van!, then what i wanted to do to the van!, could I do it or would i have to pay someone to do it? if it goes wrong how much will it cost? do i really need a shower i can't fit in?, do i need an oven? a bed to make up or a static bed? at the front or rear? how much weight do i want to carry? anyway...
i chose a 2002 2.5 diesel ldv convoy,bullet proof engine (transit)simple running gear,simple inards, huge inner capacity, good payload,loads of parts available still and cheap to buy.
build it exactly as you want it!and for a helluva lot less than £17.5k, convert it to veg oil and your fuel costs nowt as well!!!!

if you fancy a drive to wigan giz a shout and see what can be done with one!


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## Byronic (May 18, 2010)

Ola Alan, you haven't advised that the ideal all round vehicle is the  mercedes 6.6 ton 709d as base. viz. high payload, twin rear wheels, no cambelt (gear driven), no electronics (just electrics),leaf springs, proper ladder chassis. Further, in many guises its to be found all over North Africa, Middle East and beyond, so parts no problem. Coincidently I'm thinking of selling mine
Did you get to Spain this year? Dennis still seems to be in/around La Linea/Gib.Keep well.


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## Fatherjack (May 18, 2010)

maingate said:


> Correct, anything with the ALko is FWD.





  Not Quite, but they are unusual.

Mercedes Alko Chassis Forums


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