# I am a ranger in the Scottish highlands



## Deleted member 92340

Just to let you group be mindful of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code -

“The Scottish Outdoor Access Code

Access rights extend to wild camping, this type of camping is lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two or three nights in any one place. You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply, but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals, and by keeping well away from roads, buildings, and historic structures.    

Access Rights Do Not Apply To Motor Vehicles.”


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## barryd

You are preaching to the converted on here Gregor.   Regular members on here follow our own code of conduct and you will from time to time even seen threads about bad behaviour of some "Wild" campers.  I think most seasoned motorhomers will be aware that places like the NC500 are being swamped but the issues are certainly not all down to motorhomers and especially those that know what they are doing.  I guess though there are a lot of newbies and those hiring vans etc as well as the throw away tent brigade.  

If ever there was a case though for the need for more service points and overnight parking areas this summer and last is it.


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## mistericeman

barryd said:


> You are preaching to the converted on here Gregor.   Regular members on here follow our own code of conduct and you will from time to time even seen threads about bad behaviour of some "Wild" campers.  I think most seasoned motorhomers will be aware that places like the NC500 are being swamped but the issues are certainly not all down to motorhomers and especially those that know what they are doing.  I guess though there are a lot of newbies and those hiring vans etc as well as the throw away tent brigade.
> 
> If ever there was a case though for the need for more service points and overnight parking areas this summer and last is it.


You might be better speaking to folks that aren't self contained with toilet facilities on board.... 

Rather than us?


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## trevskoda

Last person to look at my van could not believe we have proper toilets, washrooms & holding tanks, last said are the lights gas.


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## trevskoda

Im a lumberjack and i dont care.


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## Tookey

Gregor said:


> Just to let you group be mindful of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code -
> 
> “The Scottish Outdoor Access Code
> 
> Access rights extend to wild camping, this type of camping is lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two or three nights in any one place. You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply, but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals, and by keeping well away from roads, buildings, and historic structures.
> 
> Access Rights Do Not Apply To Motor Vehicles.”


I can assure you members here find poor camping behaviour upsetting and annoying. I am unsure what your hobbies are but our hobby is being ruined by these people. We have to put up with the media doing articles about damage caused and debris left and they attach a stock picture of a motorhome without any evidence that it was the occupants of a camper that caused it.

You have done much the same, did you take the time to read old forum threads about how we feel about poor camping behaviour before you posted?

There are poorly behaved motorhome users, we are not blind to that but as a Ranger your role is to help preserve the beauty of locations for all, both human and wildlife. Targetting individuals not communities should be the aim. They punished all football fans by putting them in cages because of the behaviour of the few and then realised that was a mistake.

I admire and appreciate the work done by you and your colleagues but please consider the attitude that you have fallen into by posting that statement on a forum already committed to parking in suitable locations and 'leave no trace'

Guy


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## maingate

Gregor said:


> Just to let you group be mindful of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code -
> 
> “The Scottish Outdoor Access Code
> 
> Access rights extend to wild camping, this type of camping is lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two or three nights in any one place. You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply, but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals, and by keeping well away from roads, buildings, and historic structures.
> 
> Access Rights Do Not Apply To Motor Vehicles.”


Just to let you be mindful that you are picking on the wrong people and ignoring the Buckfast Brigade.

Some of us rarely wildcamp anymore because of height barriers and other obstacles. Perhaps if you had a small Business, you might have a different attitude to tourists. Especially those retired people with spending power.


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## barryd

I have been an active member of this group for some time now. NC500 the land weeps

Even though I have no intention of going there at the moment I felt it worthwhile joining to fight our corner and put a few myths to bed.   Mind you its hard to get a word in edgeways as its heavily moderated and the mods and poster will often make their point then close the thread.

There is a lot of NIMBYISM and I do wonder just how many of the complainers are genuine locals and not retired "English" Teachers or Lawyers" but there has been some pretty shocking behaviour but as others have said and from my experience its hardly ever motorhomers with self contained units causing the bother although some take the piss at times as to where they park.   Can you imagine anyone on here or pretty much any motorhomer ever emptying a cassette on the sands or dunes because I cant.  Very likely another myth.


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## mistericeman

I'm a little puzzled.... (some might say puddled) 

A Scottish Highland ranger joins a 'Wild camping for motorhomes' Forum... 

Presumably because they have a motorhome... 
So they already know that we are self contained... 

THEN in their second post proceeds to 'Inform' folks that 

"Access laws don't apply to motor vehicles" 

Smells a bit fishy to me....

 But then I do have an overactive cynical gland.


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## caledonia

You never said whether you were a Ranger for the Forestry Commission or a private estate? People are quick to attack the motorhome community because we don’t like to use campsites and prefer to park up in remote places. The majority of us are common sense campers and arrive late and leave early clearing the place of other peoples rubbish and disposing of it sensibly is something we pride our selves in.


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## Tookey

mistericeman said:


> I'm a little puzzled.... (some might say puddled)
> 
> A Scottish Highland ranger joins a 'Wild camping for motorhomes' Forum...
> 
> Presumably because they have a motorhome...
> So they already know that we are self contained...
> 
> THEN in their second post proceeds to 'Inform' folks that
> 
> "Access laws don't apply to motor vehicles"
> 
> Smells a bit fishy to me....
> 
> But then I do have an overactive cynical gland.


I reckon Gregor has been tasked with the job, I suspect members that use forums similiar to this will report they have seen the same post on those ones.

If he hasn't I'm even more annoyed


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## mistericeman

Maybe there is only Gregor posting on forums.... 

Perhaps he's the 'Lone ranger' 

Or maybe he works for a Bank and he's a 'Lone Arranger' 


Ill get my coat.....


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## Robmac

Welcome to the forum.


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## barryd

mistericeman said:


> I'm a little puzzled.... (some might say puddled)
> 
> A Scottish Highland ranger joins a 'Wild camping for motorhomes' Forum...
> 
> Presumably because they have a motorhome...
> So they already know that we are self contained...
> 
> THEN in their second post proceeds to 'Inform' folks that
> 
> "Access laws don't apply to motor vehicles"
> 
> Smells a bit fishy to me....
> 
> But then I do have an overactive cynical gland.



Many years ago we had a Ranger / Warden or whatever they are called from the Lake District come on here telling us that we couldn't wild camp around Ennerdale Water and a couple of other places. It got rather heated I seem to remember.

Was Gregors Post an invite for a discussion or just him telling us we have no right to park overnight anywhere in Scotland which of course is garbage because you can I believe park legally anywhere within 15 yards of a road.

I hope he does come back as dialogue can only be good for all surely.


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## trevskoda

I would not try camping 15 yards of some roads here.


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## Tookey

Did Gregor just turn up, disregard the forum courtesy code, upset the locals and then leave


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## Harryw

Welcome Gregor, can you expand on your role and first hand experiences good and bad you have witnessed.  Perhaps we could have a grown up debate about the points you raise.  TIA.


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## REC

Only one other post in Scottish adventure thread,
and a little bizarre that he didn't introduce himself etc  before preaching to the converted! Shame he didn't see fit to actually engage first!


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## Tookey

REC said:


> Only one other post in Scottish adventure thread,
> and a little bizarre that he didn't introduce himself etc  before preaching to the converted! Shame he didn't see fit to actually engage first!


One line would have made a world of difference;

'I am sure many seasoned tourers on the forum are fully aware of, understand and respect the Access Code, but as the hobby has seen a huge recent growth which will include novices I hope you dont mind me posting the following............'

Easy


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## Deleted member 92340

Tookey said:


> I can assure you members here find poor camping behaviour upsetting and annoying. I am unsure what your hobbies are but our hobby is being ruined by these people. We have to put up with the media doing articles about damage caused and debris left and they attach a stock picture of a motorhome without any evidence that it was the occupants of a camper that caused it.
> 
> You have done much the same, did you take the time to read old forum threads about how we feel about poor camping behaviour before you posted?
> 
> There are poorly behaved motorhome users, we are not blind to that but as a Ranger your role is to help preserve the beauty of locations for all, both human and wildlife. Targetting individuals not communities should be the aim. They punished all football fans by putting them in cages because of the behaviour of the few and then realised that was a mistake.
> 
> I admire and appreciate the work done by you and your colleagues but please consider the attitude that you have fallen into by posting that statement on a forum already committed to parking in suitable locations and 'leave no trace'
> 
> Guy


I think the issue is more the name of this forum is possibly unintentionally misleading Especially within the definition of wild camping in Scotland under the Scottish Outdoor Access code.


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## Deleted member 92340

Tookey said:


> One line would have made a world of difference;
> 
> 
> 
> Tookey said:
> 
> 
> 
> One line would have made a world of difference;
> 
> 'I am sure many seasoned tourers on the forum are fully aware of, understand and respect the Access Code, but as the hobby has seen a huge recent growth which will include novices I hope you dont mind me posting the following............'
> 
> Easy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Easy
Click to expand...

Fair point which I take “on board”…and will re-edit if possible


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## Deleted member 92340

Gregor said:


> Just to let you group be mindful of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code -
> 
> “The Scottish Outdoor Access Code
> 
> Access rights extend to wild camping, this type of camping is lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two or three nights in any one place. You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply, but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals, and by keeping well away from roads, buildings, and historic structures.
> 
> Access Rights Do Not Apply To Motor Vehicles.”


Taking on feedback from comments below I apologise if I didn’t include the following “'I am sure many seasoned tourers on the forum are fully aware of, understand and respect the Access Code, but as the hobby has seen a huge recent growth which will include novices I hope you dont mind me posting the following..........” to help spread awareness of the Scottish Outdoor Access code….


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## caledonia

Gregor said:


> I think the issue is more the name of this forum is possibly unintentionally misleading Especially within the definition of wild camping in Scotland under the Scottish Outdoor Access code.


The name of this forum is Wildcamping for Motorhomes which isn’t really an issue it’s what we do. We are a really considerate bunch and use common sense when out enjoying our hobby. But I understand where your coming from. Who are you a ranger for? FC or a private estate?


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## barryd

Yes. There has been much debate in the NC500 group regarding the term "Wild Camping" When referring to motorhomes.  It seems a lot of people (not motorhomers) are pretty hung up about it which I find bizarre but there you go.

Its just a term for parking up out in the sticks or wherever off grid.  Why does it matter?  Who really cares?


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## Deleted member 92340

barryd said:


> Many years ago we had a Ranger / Warden or whatever they are called from the Lake District come on here telling us that we couldn't wild camp around Ennerdale Water and a couple of other places. It got rather heated I seem to remember.
> 
> Was Gregors Post an invite for a discussion or just him telling us we have no right to park overnight anywhere in Scotland which of course is garbage because you can I believe park legally anywhere within 15 yards of a road.
> 
> I hope he does come back as dialogue can only be good for all surely.


Barry 'I am sure many seasoned tourers on the forum are fully aware of, understand and respect the Access Code, but as the hobby has seen a huge recent growth which will include novices I hope you dont mind me posting the following............'I am informed that it is not “a right“ to park anywhere… please see and share this new leaflet with your forum and friends


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## Deleted member 92340

caledonia said:


> The name of this forum is Wildcamping for Motorhomes which isn’t really an issue it’s what we do. We a really considerate bunch and use common sense when out enjoying our hobby. But I understand where your coming from. Who are you a ranger for? FC or a private estate?


i am here in my personal capacity and as a van user myself.  (I am actually a ranger representing three groups amongst other jobs and unpaid volunteering because I care about our planet ).


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## Deleted member 92340

Tookey said:


> Did Gregor just turn up, disregard the forum courtesy code, upset the locals and then leave


“Tookey” Genuinely want feedback on how I disregarded this forums courtesy code?


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## Deleted member 92340

barryd said:


> Yes. There has been much debate in the NC500 group regarding the term "Wild Camping" When referring to motorhomes.  It seems a lot of people (not motorhomers) are pretty hung up about it which I find bizarre but there you go.
> 
> Its just a term for parking up out in the sticks or wherever off grid.  Why does it matter?  Who really cares?


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## Deleted member 92340

maingate said:


> Just to let you be mindful that you are picking on the wrong people and ignoring the Buckfast Brigade.
> 
> Some of us rarely wildcamp anymore because of height barriers and other obstacles. Perhaps if you had a small Business, you might have a different attitude to tourists. Especially those retired people with spending power.


“Maingate” the “buckfast brigade” haven’t even arrived yet!


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## trevskoda

As it states overnighting as we do to rest is legal as we pay rd tax and ins, that's all I do here in N Ireland and don't set up camp


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## caledonia

Gregor said:


> i am here in my personal capacity and as a van user myself.  (I am actually a ranger representing three groups amongst other jobs and unpaid volunteering because I care about our planet ).


Well done you


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## Brockley

trevskoda said:


> View attachment 100000
> Im a lumberjack and i dont care.


I’m a lumberjack and I’m ok to be fair Trev


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## Tookey

Gregor said:


> I think the issue is more the name of this forum is possibly unintentionally misleading Especially within the definition of wild camping in Scotland under the Scottish Outdoor Access code.


I can understand that, I was (Dad with young boy now) getting out bushcrafting and hammock camping before getting a motorhome and would have been equally confused by the expression before joining the community. You perhaps are more familiar with 'off grid' but the two names mean the same.

This forum includes members from all walks of life, some like me that are relatively new to the hobby and others that have decades of experience, some only get away for a few days at a time, others live full time in their vehicle, some only use campsites, some never use them but on this particular forum a combination is the usual preference. What we all have in common is our chosen hobby or lifestyle includes travelling and living in our motorhomes while enjoying the cities, towns and countryside.

You didn't get a very warm welcome and I include myself, presently as a community we feel very unfairly targeted by the public, authorities and the media so someone coming into our own backyard and instantly treating us as if we were ignorant was not welcome. The sometimes despicable behaviour of the minority has lead to blanket aggression towards all within our community by some members of the groups just mentioned, understandably we are sensitive to what we (I) perceived as further critism of our community by a new visitor.

The truth is for the most part members on this forum travel in self contained motorhomes and show the upmost respect to the people and areas we visit. We respect the Access Code and the Law, we support local economies with our spending money and aim to leave no trace whether it be after staying at a campsite or wildcamping. Quite a few members 'pay their dues' at a public carpark by doing a litter pick, my family do.

You own a camper but if it is the role as a ranger that brought you here you are welcome if you engage with us with an open mind and leave any preconceptions at the door. To discuss issues that are negatively effecting our hobby and your job would be beneficial to both parties.


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## Tookey

Gregor said:


> “Tookey” Genuinely want feedback on how I disregarded this forums courtesy code?


I was playing around with words............as a Ranger you are concerned about people 'turning up, disregarding the Access Code, upsetting locals and leaving', I was pointing out that you had done the web equivalent, swapping 'access' with 'courtesy' as you had made no effort to introduce yourself and give some reasoning to your post. A post that I took offence at as it implied our ignorance on the subject.

.......as long as you don't judge us on the 'funnies' sub forum you will realise that we are reasonable bunch and I for one and I am sure all others will happily welcome you to the forum, just maybe be a tad more thoughtful next time when posting 

Welcome from W.Yorkshire


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## Wully

Have a dram an calm doon. If the itch persists more than a week seek medical advice and what ever you do dont get your nickers in a twist that usually results in the your anus becoming more tight.


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## Tookey

Wully said:


> Have a dram an calm doon. If the itch persists more than a week seek medical advice and what ever you do dont get your nickers in a twist that usually results in the your anus becoming more tight.


You are right, very busy week, was wound too tight, colleague on holiday so double the sites.  Slept now, sun is shining and tonight we are trying a reasonably local woodland campsite, fiver per adult and Ralph is free. Open fires allowed and you can tuck yourself in any corner of the woods you can get into


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## izwozral

A classic case of setting off on the wrong foot. 

Rangers opening post spoke to us as if we are a bunch of Boy Scouts given a flint and knife and told to make fire for the first time.
Some members took umbridge and reacted negatively to it, understandable given the negative misinformed press we normally receive. 

Lets start again shall we?

Welcome to the forum Ranger, your first post showing you with the kids displaying the anti-litter message was spot on.

Anyway, I have the annual Snowflakes Wildcamping Meet to organise now, the highlight being the 'Loch Lomond Cassette Contents Flinging Contest'.


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## jeanette

Izwozral I blame the heat  or as you say some members taking umbridge


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## trevskoda

I have never as yet been to Umbridge.


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## maureenandtom

barryd said:


> Many years ago we had a Ranger / Warden or whatever they are called from the Lake District come on here telling us that we couldn't wild camp around Ennerdale Water and a couple of other places. It got rather heated I seem to remember.
> 
> Was Gregors Post an invite for a discussion or just him telling us we have no right to park overnight anywhere in Scotland which of course is garbage because you can I believe park legally anywhere within 15 yards of a road.
> 
> I hope he does come back as dialogue can only be good for all surely.


I remembet something very like that.  Forestry Commission I think.   I could probably find the correspondence I had with him which I think boiled down to him saying that car parks were not designed for overnight parking of cars.


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## Admin

Gregor said:


> I think the issue is more the name of this forum is possibly unintentionally misleading Especially within the definition of wild camping in Scotland under the Scottish Outdoor Access code.


1) I have been "Wild Camping" in a vehicle for more than 30 years, I call it Wild Camping because that was the term that everyone used for it.
2) This forum and the forum name existed before the Scottish access code was published, so I claim "dibs" on the name and the Scottish Government should stop their possibly unintentionally misleading use of my brand. (this is a joke for those people with no sense of humour)


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## Scotia

I have a nonsense sense of humour!


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## campervanannie

Philip Tomlinson said:


> 1) I have been "Wild Camping" in a vehicle for more than 30 years, I call it Wild Camping because that was the term that everyone used for it.
> 2) This forum and the forum name existed before the Scottish access code was published, so I claim "dibs" on the name and the Scottish Government should stop their possibly unintentionally misleading use of my brand. (this is a joke for those people with no sense of humour)


Yes Wild  Parking  just doesn’t have the same ring to it


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## Tookey

Gregor said:


> i am here in my personal capacity and as a van user myself.  (I am actually a ranger representing three groups amongst other jobs and unpaid volunteering because I care about our planet ).


Due to your job role I would be very interested to see photos of campervans/motorhomes abusing the Access Code or dirty camping. I have no doubt that there are issues on the 500 but am intrigued and would like to see examples that you are coming across in your job role. Please, this is not a challenge but rather I am looking for some insight into what is causing the reaction that the touring community is currently experiencing 

Thank you


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## Tookey

campervanannie said:


> Yes Wild  Parking  just doesn’t have the same ring to it


I think that's when you park diagonally across 2 bays


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## barryd

Philip Tomlinson said:


> 1) I have been "Wild Camping" in a vehicle for more than 30 years, I call it Wild Camping because that was the term that everyone used for it.
> 2)* This forum and the forum name existed before the Scottish access code was published, so I claim "dibs" on the name and the Scottish Government should stop their possibly unintentionally misleading use of my brand. *(this is a joke for those people with no sense of humour)



Sue em Phil!! Go on my san!!!


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## Fazerloz

Philip Tomlinson said:


> 1) I have been "Wild Camping" in a vehicle for more than 30 years, I call it Wild Camping because that was the term that everyone used for it.
> 2) This forum and the forum name existed before the Scottish access code was published, so I claim "dibs" on the name and the Scottish Government should stop their possibly unintentionally misleading use of my brand. (this is a joke for those people with no sense of humour)



Any humour goes out of the window when you up the ante as far as claiming "dibs". I would think a letter from Wee Jimmy will be winging its way to you very shortly.


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## Robmac

barryd said:


> Sue em Phil!! Go on my san!!!



Chirpy cockney sparrers have dibs on the phrase "go on my san" Barry.

Cor blimey, you'll be up before the beak an' no mistake!


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## barge1914

trevskoda said:


> As it states overnighting as we do to rest is legal as we pay rd tax and ins, that's all I do here in N Ireland and don't set up campView attachment 100021


Hi Trev. Can you tell me what document that is an extract from? A reference would be useful. I presume it’s a NI Doc. But I’d be interested to find out if there is a parallel reference in England, Wales and Scotland.


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## Wully

I am a Ranger on Holliday in Cornwall and to be honest I’m really happy we won our 55th league championship this year but I thought Steven Gerard had more important stuff to do than get involved in camping issues. Come on the Rangers. I could sing a song that Trev likes bug I’ll get the jail.


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## trevskoda

barge1914 said:


> Hi Trev. Can you tell me what document that is an extract from? A reference would be useful. I presume it’s a NI Doc. But I’d be interested to find out if there is a parallel reference in England, Wales and Scotland.


Its from a post put on here back a bit, thing is folks only half read things, we as wildcampers/having a rest after driving are complying with the highway code, rest from driving if tired.


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## Val54

This makes interesting reading and hopefully will result in more overnight provision ....










						Overnight parking for motorhome users in designated Highland Council car parks to be considered
					

Overnight parking for motorhome users in designated Highland Council car parks to be considered - Overnight parking for motorhome users in designated Highland Council car parks to be considered




					www.highland.gov.uk


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## trevskoda

Note as i have said many times, no booze when in charge of any vh on a public highway or c park, give it up its not good for you anyway.


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## Drover

trevskoda said:


> Note as i have said many times, no booze when in charge of any vh on a public highway or c park, give it up its not good for you anyway.


That's like telling a scotsman rain is bad for you


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## Tweedy

Tweedy said:


> Hi Gregor and welcome, I keep receiving invites from visit Scotland to holiday in various places and over the last couple of years have done just that, I have to say what a beautiful place it is, on a few occasions I have mentioned to the shop keepers about the negative feeling towards Motorhome owners and their answer has been we certainly need the business. My two trips have been wonderful and met some really friendly people but my point is other than leaving no trace whatsoever I contributed over £2500 over the two trips that was fuel, food and fees for emptying black and gey water at various campsites and also filling up with fresh water well worth the £5 or £10 that they charge and of course various campsite fees so please Gregor we are not the bury or throw anywhere brigade that some people try to make us out to be. I have attached a couple of photographs of my wife and I cleaning a lay-by in the Highlands, we had a couple of locals stop to thank us and they said that the majority of rubbish is down to day trippers, I have to say that is the case in the seaside town that we live in in East Yorkshire. I hope you enjoy been a member of the club.


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## Dave H

Hi Gregor.
I would also like to add a couple of observations, 
I have also been 'wild camping' in motorhomes for over 20 years, never stopping for more than 1 night in a place, collect litter car drivers leave, and only use outside tables etc when on sites.
We are at present in a cottage in Gairloch with family.
The locals understandably are against me parking up the empty van in a car park.
On the trip here most probably 90% of the vans we saw are rentals,  not knowing to pull over when either meeting or slowing traffic down on single track roads. Putting out tables, chairs and awnings at the side of the road or passing places.
I have been disappointed and understand how we look as a group of motorhome users, its the hire companies who need to be criticized for not giving better guidance to those people who hire the motor homes.
On the plus side there are many more service and stop-over places, we also make donations when we can. I  have also noticed that its the owner/responsible users who make these donations and it's some of the hired m/h who just use the facilities and leave without a donation. 
We used to travel this area before the NC500 was created and enjoy the route it's now like the M1!!
It's no wonder we are disliked.


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## chas142

Hi Gregor. Thanks for your input. I've not been to Scotland in my Motorhome yet. In fact I've not been out at all in her for more than a couple of years, health issues. I normally litter pick and leave area clean, so motorhomers don't get blamed. I used to litter pick where I live but have given up as it's never ending and no help from council if I ask for anything. They are also very anti motorhomers and to me seem the same for residents & local groups. You'll probably be aware that many people report motorhomers who park somewhere because they don't want them there, but then some of those people then go on to have a picnic or take away then litter the area with their rubbish and drugs or drink litter, even leaving their dog mess hanging from a tree. It all seems wrong to me!!


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## RichardHelen262

I have seen many times cars parked in a car park where a couple will get some chairs out of their car boot and sit and look at the view with maybe a copper or picnic. And I am sure we have all seen plenty of rubbish left behind by people with cars,  but I have never seen signs banning cars from car parks.
But the first time someone in a motorhome gets chairs out to do the same thing, then we all get banned,
And when ever there has been a motorhome in a car park, any rubbish in the car park, for some strange reason must have been left by the people in the motorhome, so again we all get banned from the car park.
Can anyone explain why this is ?


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## chas142

RichardHelen262 said:


> I have seen many times cars parked in a car park where a couple will get some chairs out of their car boot and sit and look at the view with maybe a copper or picnic. And I am sure we have all seen plenty of rubbish left behind by people with cars,  but I have never seen signs banning cars from car parks.
> But the first time someone in a motorhome gets chairs out to do the same thing, then we all get banned,
> And when ever there has been a motorhome in a car park, any rubbish in the car park, for some strange reason must have been left by the people in the motorhome, so again we all get banned from the car park.
> Can anyone explain why this is ?


I think they just like to blame someone, we are an easy target. Where I use to litter pick I have never seen a motorhome, along a towpath or in the middle of a nature reserve. Just the general population. I can't imagine anyone taking and flytipping with their motorhome, cars yes, but council still anti motorhome but not anti car. Yes, cars & lorries can picnic but not motorhomers, mad!!


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## Rob H

Gregor said:


> Just to let you group be mindful of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code -
> 
> “The Scottish Outdoor Access Code
> 
> Access rights extend to wild camping, this type of camping is lightweight, done in small numbers and only for two or three nights in any one place. You can camp in this way wherever access rights apply, but help to avoid causing problems for local people and land managers by not camping in enclosed fields of crops or farm animals, and by keeping well away from roads, buildings, and historic structures.
> 
> Access Rights Do Not Apply To Motor Vehicles.”


Wish you could get your message out to the casual day trippers Gregor, the families that rock up to your beauty spots in the overloaded car, kids / dogs, food, lots of fast food, ... they have a lovely day, and when they leave, ... fast food containers, drink cans, bottles, tops, dog sh**t, soiled nappies ... that we on this forum usually pick up, because we are aware of the code of conduct, and have waste bags, rubbish storage, toilet storage, built into our vans ... please get our message out to your managers, local councilors, MP's, that motorhomers and campervanners, enjoy and maintain our countryside, because we've often worked all our lives to enjoy it ...


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## barryd

RichardHelen262 said:


> I have seen many times cars parked in a car park where a couple will get some chairs out of their car boot and sit and look at the view with maybe a copper or picnic. And I am sure we have all seen plenty of rubbish left behind by people with cars,  but I have never seen signs banning cars from car parks.
> But the first time someone in a motorhome gets chairs out to do the same thing, then we all get banned,
> And when ever there has been a motorhome in a car park, any rubbish in the car park, for some strange reason must have been left by the people in the motorhome, so again we all get banned from the car park.
> Can anyone explain why this is ?



I think a lot of it is pure jealousy and envy. How many times have we seen articles or threads on forums outside the motorhome community with comments about "Getting the view or staying the night for free"?  Freeloader is another one often used.  Brits cant stand to think someone is getting something for nothing or enjoying a bit of freedom.   Except as we all know its not free, its feckin expensive!   Apart from when I had a boat I cant think of anything Ive chucked more money at.  We (personally) spend a fair bit when away in the van also.


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## barryd

Rob H said:


> Wish you could get your message out to the casual day trippers Gregor, the families that rock up to your beauty spots in the overloaded car, kids / dogs, food, lots of fast food, ... they have a lovely day, and when they leave, ... fast food containers, drink cans, bottles, tops, dog sh**t, soiled nappies ... that we on this forum usually pick up, because we are aware of the code of conduct, and have waste bags, rubbish storage, toilet storage, built into our vans ... please get our message out to your managers, local councilors, MP's, that motorhomers and campervanners, enjoy and maintain our countryside, because we've often worked all our lives to enjoy it ...



Where we are now (Flamborough head) its heartbreaking to see the mess day trippers leave. We have been here five weeks now and every weekend all the hotspot car parks and beauty spots are just left littered with rubbish.  Yesterday the lady who owns the CL we have been staying on spent an entire day with a hi vis jacket on picking up rubbish all along the lighthouse road.  All of the sea view car parks around Flamborough head are strictly no wild camping yet they are just trashed every week by morons who simply cant be arsed to pick up their litter and even put it in the bins which are provided let alone take it home yet we who go out of our way to even pick up their shit are banned.  It makes my blood boil.


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## Tookey

Just googled 'mess left by motorhomes uk' and there was virtually nothing including in 'Images' so tried 'mess left by campervans' and same result   

If you want articles about 'abandoned tents and litter'............well take your pick!


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## Brockley

We’ve just picked up some of the mess left here at the parking near the Battery Bar on the west shore of Lough Neagh. There were only 3 motorhomes here when we arrived early yesterday afternoon, but it was busy with day trippers who left a right mess, mostly fast food cartons and wrapping which must have been bought a fair distance away.

What a difference today, we’re the only ones here apart from Eel fishermen!


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## MikeBBB

barryd said:


> Was Gregors Post an invite for a discussion or just him telling us we have no right to park overnight anywhere in Scotland which of course is garbage because you can I believe park legally anywhere within 15 yards of a road.
> 
> Not quite so. You can indeed drive 15 yards of a road for the purposes of parking. This does not, however, grant you any legal right to actually park. Given that most (if not all) of the land will be owned by someone (and cetainly most of the machair in OH is crofting land), you do not have a legal right to park on it. So important to be accurate, don't you think? Especially when there are so many people who don't necessarily have "our" ethos of appropriate "wild" camping techniques, and may be seeking advice from the likes of this forum.


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## Drover

That's just put this back on for Gregor or the scottish rangers...


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## alcam

Wully said:


> I am a Ranger on Holliday in Cornwall and to be honest I’m really happy we won our 55th league championship this year but I thought Steven Gerard had more important stuff to do than get involved in camping issues. Come on the Rangers. I could sing a song that Trev likes bug I’ll get the jail.


GIRUY


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## alcam

Gregor said:


> i am here in my personal capacity and as a van user myself.  (I am actually a ranger representing three groups amongst other jobs and unpaid volunteering because I care about our planet ).


Not quite sure what you mean by a ranger representing three groups ?
You also say you are here in a personal capacity .
Bit confused
But you've come on here without doing any research at all . It would not have taken you 5 minutes to find out where the people on here stand 
I'm sure you can see it is a bit like having a Jehovah's witness at our door 
(no apologies if you are a Jehovah's)


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## Andylynne

Im not a seasoned motorhomer yet, thats exactly why i joined this group ! We have absolutely no intention of camping where we are not supposed to , nor leaving any mess behind. We are touring Scotland in August and booked onto 3 sites , but will be wild camping for 3 nights inbetween each site, with the help and wisdom of the many members of this wonderful group.


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## caledonia

Andylynne said:


> Im not a seasoned motorhomer yet, thats exactly why i joined this group ! We have absolutely no intention of camping where we are not supposed to , nor leaving any mess behind. We are touring Scotland in August and booked onto 3 sites , but will be wild camping for 3 nights inbetween each site, with the help and wisdom of the many members of this wonderful group.


It would be very beneficial for you to join as a full member and get all the benefits and best of all access to the poi files which offer some excellent places to stop for the night.


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## trevskoda

Brockley said:


> We’ve just picked up some of the mess left here at the parking near the Battery Bar on the west shore of Lough Neagh. There were only 3 motorhomes here when we arrived early yesterday afternoon, but it was busy with day trippers who left a right mess, mostly fast food cartons and wrapping which must have been bought a fair distance away.
> 
> What a difference today, we’re the only ones here apart from Eel fishermen!


Have you been to the massereene gardens in Antrim close to the roundabout on the Randelstown road.


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## Brockley

trevskoda said:


> Have you been to the massereene gardens in Antrim close to the roundabout on the Randelstown road.


Looks very nice Trev but unfortunately we’ve just moved down to Seaghan Dam Foley, just outside Armagh.


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## Fisherman

barryd said:


> Where we are now (Flamborough head) its heartbreaking to see the mess day trippers leave. We have been here five weeks now and every weekend all the hotspot car parks and beauty spots are just left littered with rubbish.  Yesterday the lady who owns the CL we have been staying on spent an entire day with a hi vis jacket on picking up rubbish all along the lighthouse road.  All of the sea view car parks around Flamborough head are strictly no wild camping yet they are just trashed every week by morons who simply cant be arsed to pick up their litter and even put it in the bins which are provided let alone take it home yet we who go out of our way to even pick up their shit are banned.  It makes my blood boil.


There are probably hundreds if not thousands of similar situations all over the U.K. What I don’t get is the penny never drops for those people. We were at Port Logan in Galloway yesterday and there was a sign which stated. DON‘T SPOIL THE ENVIORMENT, STAY THE DAY BUT DON’T SPEND THE NIGHT. What the hell do they mean by such a sign, how does someone sleeping in a van in a rural carpark spoil the environment. But sadly the type of person who puts out rubbish like that probably has clout.


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## Drover

Fisherman said:


> There are probably hundreds if not thousands of similar situations all over the U.K. What I don’t get is the penny never drops for those people. We were at Port Logan in Galloway yesterday and there was a sign which stated. DON‘T SPOIL THE ENVIORMENT, STAY THE DAY BUT DON’T SPEND THE NIGHT. What the hell do they mean by such a sign, how does someone sleeping in a van in a rural carpark spoil the environment. But sadly the type of person who puts out rubbish like that probably has clout.


People dumping rubbish , don't you just hate them leaving signs all over the place..... best you place them in the correct recycling receptacle


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## barge1914

I’ve posted this before, but again for your benefit Gregor. If those who resort to prejudice and lazily blame all motorhomers for the transgressions of day trippers and hirers actually spent the time making careful observations they would probably be better informed…

(Extract from a letter to a Councillor who had received complaints about litter in a car park heavily used by cars but rarely by motorhomes, someone had seen a motorhome there: this led to all motorhomes being banned)

A subject that probably annoys responsible motorhome owners more than locals...LITTER. Whoever wants to spend a night in a carpark that is full of litter...for a night it’s our garden. Many motorhomers, including myself often clear up other people’s litter from carparks where we stay, in fact we have a groups called the Motorhome Wombles, and Motorhomes and Campervans Against Litter. 

Nearly all the litter comes from people in the far more numerous cars. Yet strangely no-one bans cars from car parks. Sadly people are so prejudiced, they see a motorhome in a car park, they see rubbish and bingo they conflate the two and come over self-righteous. People in cars unlike motorhomers have nowhere to store their rubbish. Many simply don’t care, and others use absence of a bin as an excuse to throw rubbish out of the window. We have our own bags and bins that we can empty when we find a proper place. 

Two recent experiences.

Small viewpoint car park near Earby, Lancs. 
Arrive before lunch, clear up a considerable amount of litter including things like cans, wrappers, packaging for a new iPhone and glue sniffers bong (or something worse). Several cars arrive for the view and lunch, no one gets out yet when they go there’s a new collection of fast food containers, sandwich wrappers and cans...yet the carpark has two bins! Clear it up again. Go for a walk, come back, it’s full of rubbish again...we were the only van there all day, and I knew that if any local saw rubbish we would be the ones getting the blame.

Taf Fechan Forest car park, Brecons. Clean when we arrived. Busy August weekend. 3 motorhomes there, us, a German couple and some East Europeans, nothing put outside, no rubbish deposited. Many dozens of cars came and left. Litter and bags of picnic waste dumped everywhere. Romanians with tents on the verge. People lighting fires (in a Forest!!!) one of which I had to later to put out. Disposable barbeques, which people abandoned without extinguishing. People disappearing into the woods with camping equipment. I had to have sharp words with a couple who planned ‘leaving their tent for others’. Sunday afternoon quiet again, just about to get out the litter-picker when a young guy and his son get out a bin bag and start to clear up the mess. Congratulating him I discover he’s Russian “in Russia we always clear up everybody’s mess after a weekend in the forest...it’s traditional”...we could learn something from the Russians after all!

Powys is very welcoming but if this continues, who do you think will be banned...cars? Of course there are bad eggs in every basket, but you know the saying...find a crime, search for the guilty, punish the innocent...it’s easier that way. It’s so infuriating...especially to find the same happening in my own neck of the woods. 

Some car park owners who let motorhomes stay overnight say they appreciate having us there because they have less vandalism and bad behaviour when there’s eyes there to see what’s going on.

Litterers should be dealt with as litterers who ever they are, there are ample laws for this. Defining and punishing groups according to the transgressions of a minority has in law been  illegal since the 19th Century. Try banning all cars from roads because a few speed and imagine the reaction you would get!


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## Nabsim

trevskoda said:


> I have never as yet been to Umbridge.


Isn’t that where the Archers is based?


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## izwozral

barge1914 said:


> I’ve posted this before, but again for your benefit Gregor. If those who resort to prejudice and lazily blame all motorhomers for the transgressions of day trippers and hirers actually spent the time making careful observations they would probably be better informed…
> 
> (Extract from a letter to a Councillor who had received complaints about litter in a car park heavily used by cars but rarely by motorhomes, someone had seen a motorhome there: this led to all motorhomes being banned)
> 
> A subject that probably annoys responsible motorhome owners more than locals...LITTER. Whoever wants to spend a night in a carpark that is full of litter...for a night it’s our garden. Many motorhomers, including myself often clear up other people’s litter from carparks where we stay, in fact we have a groups called the Motorhome Wombles, and Motorhomes and Campervans Against Litter.
> 
> Nearly all the litter comes from people in the far more numerous cars. Yet strangely no-one bans cars from car parks. Sadly people are so prejudiced, they see a motorhome in a car park, they see rubbish and bingo they conflate the two and come over self-righteous. People in cars unlike motorhomers have nowhere to store their rubbish. Many simply don’t care, and others use absence of a bin as an excuse to throw rubbish out of the window. We have our own bags and bins that we can empty when we find a proper place.
> 
> Two recent experiences.
> 
> Small viewpoint car park near Earby, Lancs.
> Arrive before lunch, clear up a considerable amount of litter including things like cans, wrappers, packaging for a new iPhone and glue sniffers bong (or something worse). Several cars arrive for the view and lunch, no one gets out yet when they go there’s a new collection of fast food containers, sandwich wrappers and cans...yet the carpark has two bins! Clear it up again. Go for a walk, come back, it’s full of rubbish again...we were the only van there all day, and I knew that if any local saw rubbish we would be the ones getting the blame.
> 
> Taf Fechan Forest car park, Brecons. Clean when we arrived. Busy August weekend. 3 motorhomes there, us, a German couple and some East Europeans, nothing put outside, no rubbish deposited. Many dozens of cars came and left. Litter and bags of picnic waste dumped everywhere. Romanians with tents on the verge. People lighting fires (in a Forest!!!) one of which I had to later to put out. Disposable barbeques, which people abandoned without extinguishing. People disappearing into the woods with camping equipment. I had to have sharp words with a couple who planned ‘leaving their tent for others’. Sunday afternoon quiet again, just about to get out the litter-picker when a young guy and his son get out a bin bag and start to clear up the mess. Congratulating him I discover he’s Russian “in Russia we always clear up everybody’s mess after a weekend in the forest...it’s traditional”...we could learn something from the Russians after all!
> 
> Powys is very welcoming but if this continues, who do you think will be banned...cars? Of course there are bad eggs in every basket, but you know the saying...find a crime, search for the guilty, punish the innocent...it’s easier that way. It’s so infuriating...especially to find the same happening in my own neck of the woods.
> 
> Some car park owners who let motorhomes stay overnight say they appreciate having us there because they have less vandalism and bad behaviour when there’s eyes there to see what’s going on.
> 
> Litterers should be dealt with as litterers who ever they are, there are ample laws for this. Defining and punishing groups according to the transgressions of a minority has in law been  illegal since the 19th Century. Try banning all cars from roads because a few speed and imagine the reaction you would get!


Totally agree Ian.


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## Tookey

I am also in agreement with everything barge wrote but in fairness to Gregor he has not once mentioned litter, only referenced the Access Code

Common belief of the name origin/meaning of Gregor is 'watchful', very apt for a ranger


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## trevskoda

Brockley said:


> Looks very nice Trev but unfortunately we’ve just moved down to Seaghan Dam Foley, just outside Armagh.View attachment 100232


Slip on down over the border and do Newgrange and the monastic sites.


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## maingate

Which one is the Monastry of Labour Trev?


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## trevskoda

maingate said:


> Which one is the Monastry of Labour Trev?


First 3 and one before the last, monsterboice, also a old church near by with large celtic crosses, all in the Boyne vally


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## RichardHelen262

trevskoda said:


> Slip on down over the border and do Newgrange and the monastic sites.


They look very nice Trev as does a lot of Ireland, such a shame that from reading many of your comments about Ireland it doesn’t seem like a very safe place to visit


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## trevskoda

RichardHelen262 said:


> They look very nice Trev as does a lot of Ireland, such a shame that from reading many of your comments about Ireland it doesn’t seem like a very safe place to visit


It is but when up north just look for the signs/flags on walls etc and don't go into pubs there as they are dens for naughty boys.


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## Tookey

RichardHelen262 said:


> They look very nice Trev as does a lot of Ireland, such a shame that from reading many of your comments about Ireland it doesn’t seem like a very safe place to visit


I know what you mean, the Abbey in the photos was only built in 2008!!


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## trevskoda

Tookey said:


> I know what you mean, the Abbey in the photos was only built in 2008!!


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## Brockley

RichardHelen262 said:


> They look very nice Trev as does a lot of Ireland, such a shame that from reading many of your comments about Ireland it doesn’t seem like a very safe place to visit


We’ve been visiting the island of Ireland since 1978, my wife originated there and yes there have been some troubled times, yet we have only ever met warm hearted and friendly people during our many visits. Can’t say the same for the other adjacent isle, we’ve been to one or two places and felt positively intimidated.


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## myvanwy

Has Gregor gone??? Does he only have access on Friday?


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## Deleted member 56601

myvanwy said:


> Has Gregor gone??? Does he only have access on Friday?


Probably reached his post limit as a free member


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## trevskoda

Brockley said:


> We’ve been visiting the island of Ireland since 1978, my wife originated there and yes there have been some troubled times, yet we have only ever met warm hearted and friendly people during our many visits. Can’t say the same for the other adjacent isle, we’ve been to one or two places and felt positively intimidated.


After your money we are,  yes good over here but a pitty about the small no brain types from both camps who spoil it for the rest of us.


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## Brockley

Very true


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