# Habitation check



## Toffeecat (Dec 3, 2017)

Hi all, My 2007 Suntor 120 based on a Peugeot 2.3 TDI engine will need a Habitation check in July. As its my first motorhome I checked at the dealer. £380. Ouch! I had heard that a mobile engineer is a better option and much cheaper. Just wondered if that's true? I can service the vans mechanicals being an ex diesel fitters apprentice.


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## trevskoda (Dec 3, 2017)

Toffeecat said:


> Hi all, My 2007 Suntor 120 based on a Peugeot 2.3 TDI engine will need a Habitation check in July. As its my first motorhome I checked at the dealer. £380. Ouch! I had heard that a mobile engineer is a better option and much cheaper. Just wondered if that's true? I can service the vans mechanicals being an ex diesel fitters apprentice.



The hab check they do from what im told and worth a fiddlers fart,best to get someone with a damp meter who knows there stuff to look at her,also look at all electrics as from what i have seen most are bad because some twit has been at them,good luck with new van and health to wear.


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## mikey (Dec 3, 2017)

*habiitation*

we had a mobile service emgineer do ours the only reason i did it was if i sold it some one could see it is working condition i only paid89 pounds but he seemed to be quite thorough for the money:wave:


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## The laird (Dec 3, 2017)

Put up what area you are in  and members may be able to recommend a mobile  or dealer repairer for you .


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## Canalsman (Dec 3, 2017)

Have a look at the members of the Approved Workshop Scheme.

Many of these are mobile.

Our Schemes - Approved Workshop Scheme


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## MF2002 (Dec 3, 2017)

*Habitation Check*

Hiya,

We bought an 18 month old AutoTrial (sic) a few (3 1/2) years ago and have used an Approved Workshop (Turriff Caravan Centre - who are really excellent) for our habitatikn services.  

The only issue has been trying to get the supplying dealer and AutoTrial (sic) to do the work under warranty.

Good luck.


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## Obanboy666 (Dec 3, 2017)

Use a local to me mobile chap, £100.00 for the hab check on my pvc.
Nothing to do with warranty more for my peace of mind regarding is the gas system safe etc and can be beneficial when selling in the future if you have service history on the mechanics and the hab side.


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## antiquesam (Dec 3, 2017)

I always wonder why a habitation check is necessary other than to fulfill a warranty obligation.


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## Canalsman (Dec 3, 2017)

Some insurance policies require that the gas system be tested for safety.

Provided the habitation check is priced reasonably this aspect will be covered and you have peace of mind regarding the general well-being of the 'van.

As mentioned above having a complete service history for all parts of the vehicle may prove useful on resale.


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## antiquesam (Dec 3, 2017)

I'm not sure that resale value is a selling point for habitation checks on a van that is as old as mine, at £380 I could replace the van.


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## Canalsman (Dec 3, 2017)

I did say reasonable price.

£380 is not reasonable. I have paid  £99 recently.


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## mossypossy (Dec 4, 2017)

A guy who does them for a living told me not to waste my money.
By all means have gas system checked out though and have your three way fridge gas gubbins cleaned out.


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## trevskoda (Dec 4, 2017)

Wonder what they would make of a self build.


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## Obanboy666 (Dec 4, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Wonder what they would make of a self build.



Most will have the same kit as a main stream motorhome ie. fridge, cooker, Truma boiler, charger etc, etc so apart from most self builds being van based I would have thought there would be little difference apart from the general build quality will more than likely be superior.


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## spigot (Dec 4, 2017)

Never, ever paid for a hab' check & I don't intend to. By the sound of it, what I've saved over the years could buy me a good van replacement.

All one needs is a good damp meter & a can of gas spray, although never having bought this last item, I use my nose or soapy water.

The fridge has been out more times than I can remember to clean a blocked jet, so I know that's OK.


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## Nesting Zombie (Dec 4, 2017)

Some extra reading Hab checks

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...8205-habitation-system-checks.html?highlight=


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## Niki (Dec 4, 2017)

Having just brought an old (1992) Capri I decided to get a habitation check done - for my own peace of mind if nothing else and, as I've never owned a motorhome before and it didn't come with any instruction manuals, it also helped teach me a few things about the various appliances. I paid a local mobile company and they charged £160 but for no additional cost they gave me a full walk-round of everything, isolated and replaced the 2 blown fuses which were stopping the cigarette lighter and top lights working and replaced the gas inlet tube to the main gas canister.
I probably won't get another one done but felt this one was worthwhile. 
NB: cigarette lighter is vital to run my satnav and keep the mobile phone topped up as I don't usually plan to use official sites!


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## runnach (Dec 4, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Wonder what they would make of a self build.


 I suspect very few would pass if tested correctly, Ventilation requirements upper and lower, drop outs, pipes supported correctly Regulators not to LAV standards.

How many testers are checking appliances correctly using flue analysers where applicable ? I have seen it with my own eyes.

AWS and MCEA quite frankly most of them I wouldn't pay in washers, there are some good ones, My last employer was NCC it is a joke and a money spinning racket. 

Like so called decorators at home and electricians etc name the trade you are better asking for recommendation ( doesn't help if you are a new start business with good  intention ) As an example on these hallowed pages a lot of people recommend the guys at Thirsk for tank gas conversions ..name noted should I ever decide to fit one

Channa


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## Obanboy666 (Dec 4, 2017)

hairydog said:


> I've been motorhoming by for many decades and never bothered with the things.
> Someone scraped the van corner a couple of years ago and the repairer insisted on getting a habitation check done. Not sure why. I never saw the report if one was done, though.
> 
> There is no definition of what is covered by a habitation check. They may or may not include gas, electrics and water systems checks.
> ...



Agree with what you state but unfortunately most if not all manufacturers insist on a yearly habitation check / service call it what you will or the warranty is invalid.


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## peter palance (Dec 5, 2017)

*what*



antiquesam said:


> I'm not sure that resale value is a selling point for habitation checks on a van that is as old as mine, at £380 I could replace the van.



 are you in a bow top or a tent regards pj


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## antiquesam (Dec 5, 2017)

peter palance said:


> are you in a bow top or a tent regards pj



The problem with a bow top is where to put the horse when I'm at home. The deeds specifically forbid horses or pigs in the garden.
I'm afraid I just own an old van.


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## Les Haro (Dec 6, 2017)

Nothing wrong with an older vehicle, we can afford to not pay to keep resale value as high as possible by buying into safety nets. 
The annual depreciation of a MH that was only a few grand is not much, cosmetic maintenance = bugger all for us. 
A scratch on the outside is character building not asset depleting.


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## Biggarmac (Dec 6, 2017)

Its alright for you competent diy ers to rubbish habitation checks and engineers, but for those of us who are not used to doing gas and electric work they are necessary.  If you find a good person who is competent and does not cost a fortune give us the names!


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## runnach (Dec 6, 2017)

Biggarmac said:


> Its alright for you competent diy ers to rubbish habitation checks and engineers, but for those of us who are not used to doing gas and electric work they are necessary.  If you find a good person who is competent and does not cost a fortune give us the names!


 And that is exactly why on my post I suggested personal recommendation is possibly the safest bet 

Channa


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## vwalan (Dec 7, 2017)

antiquesam said:


> The problem with a bow top is where to put the horse when I'm at home. The deeds specifically forbid horses or pigs in the garden.
> I'm afraid I just own an old van.View attachment 59993



dont need a horse these days Home - Gregs Gypsy Bowtop Caravans
possibly better quality than many m,homes on the market.


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## spigot (Dec 7, 2017)

vwalan said:


> dont need a horse these days Home - Gregs Gypsy Bowtop Caravans
> possibly better quality than many m,homes on the market.




They look fabulous, the quality of the interior fittings with all that solid wood look top notch. They put to shame the crap interiors of modern motorhomes.

I hate to think how much they cost!


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## antiquesam (Dec 7, 2017)

It would have to be tugged with a white Tranny on Irish plates.


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## vwalan (Dec 7, 2017)

spigot said:


> They look fabulous, the quality of the interior fittings with all that solid wood look top notch. They put to shame the crap interiors of modern motorhomes.
> 
> I hate to think how much they cost!



cant help with prices , i saw a advert years ago and called in to see them. think it was when i was running a mazda bongo as well as my truck. 
was quite impressed with the build of them. 
have always liked things out of the ordinary . 
remember going to vw shows years ago and being one of only a few customized vans . 
thousands around later but in the 70,s only a handfull in uk. 
luckily mini artics havnt grown as fast i might have to change to something else. ha ha . 
had a teardrop for almost 30 yrs now . might have to bring it out to play one day.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 7, 2017)

*Habitation Test*

It would not take much of an effort for a Forum such as this to start a nationwide list of recommended Habitation Testers NOTE I did say Tests not checks which are IMO worthless, a recommended list of tests could be required and I am sure there would be many self employed chaps willing to join a scheme with the weight of a quality forum behind them it could go from strength to strength.
Whilst I have always done my own tests there are many that would prefer this to be done for them.

Alf





hairydog said:


> You appear to think that a habitation check involves some sort of gas and electrical work or check.
> Sadly, I think you are wrong.
> The check might include a test for gas leaks (a DIY task requiring a bit of clear pipe with water in) but almost certainly won't include a gas analyser check on flue products or a check on things like cylinder hose age. It won't involve any sort of appliance service (none is needed).
> Similarly, it may include an earth leakage test and earth continuity test on the mains, but it won't include any worthwhile tests on the charging circuits, on the condition of the 12v wiring or the state of the batteries.
> It will mostly involve prodding the interior under the window openings with a £10 damp meter. You can do that yourself.


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## spigot (Dec 7, 2017)

antiquesam said:


> It would have to be tugged with a white Tranny on Irish plates.




With a few pots, pans & kettles hanging off the back!


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## Deleted member 5759 (Dec 7, 2017)

Caravan Servicing Workshop in Sussex, UK

SERVICE CHARGES
*
Motorhome Habitation service £186*

Mechanical service charged at hourly rate

Single axle caravans £192

Double axle caravans £216

Please note that service prices do not include parts.

At Johns Cross Motorcaravans we can supply and fit many different accessories at very competitive rates.

Labour charges

Motorcaravan and caravan hourly rate £60.00 including VAT

Mechanical hourly rate £60.00 including VAT


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 7, 2017)

And what exactly do you do for a service then.

Do you do a gas test or an Electrical test or is it  visual check.

Alf




JohnsCrossMotorHomes said:


> Caravan Servicing Workshop in Sussex, UK
> 
> SERVICE CHARGES
> *
> ...


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## jo662 (Dec 7, 2017)

We had a habitation service done by a mobile engineer,and the price was £120.
He was very thorough and checked the electrics,gas and water system.
Its worth it just for peace of mind knowing everything is working as it should.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 7, 2017)

Yes but most of these firms just supply a tick box type form which is hardly worth the paper it’s writtenon, should a problem arise it’s worthless.

Alf



jo662 said:


> We had a habitation service done by a mobile engineer,and the price was £120.
> He was very thorough and checked the electrics,gas and water system.
> Its worth it just for peace of mind knowing everything is working as it should.


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## TJBi (Dec 8, 2017)

POI Admin said:


> Have a look at the members of the Approved Workshop Scheme.
> 
> Many of these are mobile.
> 
> Our Schemes - Approved Workshop Scheme



I would take the "Approved" with a pinch of salt.  A firm on the list of approved workshops had my motorhome in twice and on both occasions caused expensive damage but failed to resolve the problem for which it had been entrusted to them.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 8, 2017)

Sounds interesting I might give it a go and see if its better than my 24" manometer


I have a GasLow gas gauge connected to my regulator when I have time to spare I test my gas with that it means I can test anywhere at any time Not as accurate as a Manometer.  

Alf





hairydog said:


> Easy. First, understand what you are testing for. Leaks in the pipework.
> 
> So the first thing to do is to turn off all the appliances that use gas. A pilot light or a burner running low looks like a leak!
> 
> ...


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## Toffeecat (Dec 10, 2017)

*Thanks*

Thanks all. I live oop north in Durham so if anyone knows a good mobile technician let me know. The fella who fixes my car is going to do a full service each year on the mechanicals as I'm to lazy to do it myself even though I used to strip big diesel engines down. Getting old! 
Mick


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## runnach (Dec 10, 2017)

hairydog said:


> There is, of course, a far easier way to test for leaks.
> 
> 1. Turn everything off, leaving the gas supply on.
> 
> ...



Never read anything so bizarre nor misinformed in my life. You seem the epitomy of someone that thinks they know what they are doing and patently doesn't 

Channa


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## runnach (Dec 10, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Easy. First, understand what you are testing for. Leaks in the pipework.
> 
> So the first thing to do is to turn off all the appliances that use gas. A pilot light or a burner running low looks like a leak!
> 
> ...



A wonderful example of a home made manometer, but the bit highlighted is bollocks you see appliances albeit closed seep gas permissible drop it is all in the regulations.

The question is by how much ? please share, Also tell us about stabilisation periods and how if the pressure rises in your contraption whats happening ? is the regulator letting by ? or if it is a warm day is gas expanding in the pipe ? I vouched I wouldn't reply to your comments but this is so wrong and misleading.

The only other gas engineer I know on here is Charlie, I will let him comment as to whether I am being harsh or scathing of your half baked techniques 

Channa


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## runnach (Dec 10, 2017)

Incidentally on a new system for pipework integrity or a suspected serious leak it is more prudent to test with air at 50 mbar tends not to be as lively as LPG ,also on a system charged with gas first thing to check is lock up pressure of the regulator and within tolerance butr we wont let little details like that get in the way .

Channa


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 11, 2017)

Now let's be fair here,  to interfere with a gas connection if not competent is bordering on dangerous, most Habitation checks do not do this. It's not that easy  to read a manometer correctly so it's not for many DIY persons and you are very good at passing such advice. You  never advised to check the test nipple for leaks after testing something a trained person does automatically.
One of the reasons I use a Gaslow gauge not quite as accurate as a Manometer but I can view it at any time.
Just because you feel able to do these tests please don't advise others so glibly.
And to be fair most Habitation Checks are rip offs anyway.

Alf





hairydog said:


> Are you so very insecure about your trade that you need to snipe at anyne who exposes your little fiefdom? If it doesn't level off significantly in the time it takes to have a cup of coffee, it'll be fine. If it does, it needs investigating.
> Sorry to expose the secrets of your magic tricks, but it needs doing. People are being ripped off for "habitation checks" of no value.
> 
> What a pity that your attitude lets you pick holes in the help others offer, but not to actually provide the information you think is missing.
> ...


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 11, 2017)

Well said Charlie if not qualified or registered leave well alone see link for a timely reminder

Alf


Birstall house explosion: Three hurt in gas blast - BBC News






Chainsaw Charlie said:


> I am not going to bother to explain why but if I carried out tests as described by you in a professional capacity and a problem later occurred I would be at serious risk of going to prison.
> Your tests really tell you absolutely nothing for a number of reasons.


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## runnach (Dec 11, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Right, so that was caused by a leaking in a motorhome's gas system,was it? No, of course it wasn't.
> There is no requirement to have any qualifications to work on a motorhome gas system, unless it is rented out. Any gas work on a house has to be done by gas Safe registered people. So an example of a house explosion is a little silly.



Possibly the only piece of accurate advice so far, However you are the type of person who will drive legislation even tighter than current, that seems lost on you. You seem competent at being incompetent with your advice on gas issues at least. 

I am not protective of the gas industry at all nor am I interested in point scoring or your paranoia HD knows best. 

I believe you once said you wanted to start a website for technical issues on motorhomes , if you do you better step up your game don't you think ? Your credibility so far only extends to the date and time of a thread 

Channa


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 11, 2017)

Quite right but I was pointing out what gas leaks can do.
Whilst there is no gas regulation check with your insurer's are they willing to let you do the gas test. Not long ago a small motor caravan converter over Cheshire way was taken to court by Trading Standards and got a prison sentence the gas installations in his conversions were not up to standard, DIY by all means but please stop advising people to do dangerous things.

Alf


Link added

Winsford man jailed for more than three years for supplying unsafe campervan and fraud | Winsford Guardian
.







hairydog said:


> Right, so that was caused by a leaking in a motorhome's gas system,was it? No, of course it wasn't.
> There is no requirement to have any qualifications to work on a motorhome gas system, unless it is rented out. Any gas work on a house has to be done by gas Safe registered people. So an example of a house explosion is a little silly.


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## runnach (Dec 11, 2017)

Alf said:


> Quite right but I was pointing out what gas leaks can do.
> Whilst there is no gas regulation check with your insurer's are they willing to let you do the gas test. Not long ago a small motor caravan converter over Cheshire way was taken to court by Trading Standards and got a prison sentence the gas installations in his conversions were not up to standard, DIY by all means but please stop advising people to do dangerous things.
> 
> Alf
> ...



The definition of competent person Alf is the key here. I know one or two on here do their own gas work are knowledgeable work to good practice but not convinced how they stand should they ever find themselves in a courtroom . Considering work on your own van there is a liability should you sell it , The subject is worthy of consideration.

My own view is the Acop qualification is the minimum it doesn't allow you to work on vans for hire or reward but does have some structure including the regulations. I have seen people comment that the course is as little as two days typically 5  however it does require ( or did) evidence of assisting in working on gas installations to be accepted to the course in the first instance

Most Approved Workshops, NCC , MCEA engineers choose the label are qualified to this standard, Working on Statics is different, as is working on boats there are then additional modules including fridges.

It is my opinion only that in a court case as you describe the court would be looking for some sort of qualification that demonstrates a basic understanding of practice and legislation.

Of course there are people irrespective of qualifications albeit gas or 17th edition electrics that fly by the seat of their pants,

Coming back to insurance, and considering MCEA AWS etc are predominantly Acop qualified I would suggest that is the minimum qualification a customer should be looking at then checking the engineer has the respective modules. (LAV)

As always I would suggest people shop on recommendation where they can.

Channa


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## eddyt (Dec 11, 2017)

channa said:


> Possibly the only piece of accurate advice so far, However you are the type of person who will drive legislation even tighter than current, that seems lost on you. You seem competent at being incompetent with your advice on gas issues at least.
> 
> I am not protective of the gas industry at all nor am I interested in point scoring or your paranoia HD knows best.
> 
> ...



hi
  i dont see how a diy manometer can be dangerous as it cant cause any leaks
  but may warn someone of a leak which would otherwise be left unatended.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 11, 2017)

With a piece of plastic hose there is no reference point to base the water movement should there be one if you intend to do your own test and feel competent to do so a LPG manometer is cheap enough. I can see the court or insurance company accepting the use of a piece of plastic hose to test gas should you be unlucky and have an accident however each to their own.

Alf





eddyt said:


> hi
> i dont see how a diy manometer can be dangerous as it cant cause any leaks
> but may warn someone of a leak which would otherwise be left unatended.


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## runnach (Dec 11, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> For a simple example for those that really don't understand gas testing.
> You do a test with a manometer at any old pressure so your regulator could be locked out so you are only testing part of the system
> You turn off the ecv (main gas valve ) test seems good but the valve is letting by so you really have a leak.
> You don't allow for a period of temperature stabilisation so again you really have a leak
> ...



You what ? use a bit of scrap hose if the water drops there is a leak my pal says so and I can have a coffee in fact lets push the boat out and have fish and chips it wont drop at all nor raise if it is tight. Got it in writing ! How the heckers like does my water dropping in the pipe convert to mbars ? If it rises is summat letting by or just gas expanding in the pipes ? I apologise I questioned this and accused of nonsense protecting an industry , point scoring and other diatribe. Giz a job ..dab hand with a bit of tube 

Channa


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## eddyt (Dec 11, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> So don't touch gas then as you can't see how



hi
  so can you tell us how it may cause a leak.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Dec 11, 2017)

You must have missed it already answered

Alf




eddyt said:


> hi
> so can you tell us how it may cause a leak.


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## runnach (Dec 12, 2017)

eddyt said:


> hi
> so can you tell us how it may cause a leak.




No one suggested a manometer homemade or otherwise would "cause" a leak. However if testing and there is a significant drop the first thing to check is that the connection to the test nipple isn't the source of the leak. First thing to check is the integrity of where you have broke into the system. In that sense is how a manometer can be the leak !

Channa


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## runnach (Dec 12, 2017)

hairydog said:


> Careful, you'll prick the bubble of the "gas is dangerious, so pay us to bullshit you" brigade. See how they stand together.



One way of looking at it albeit so far your description being kind can be described as incompetent

Perhaps it is not about gas is dangerous pay us to bullshit you , but protecting people from the dreadful, misinformed, nonsense that you have offered so far ...?

Stablisation not important yet you tell us any drop is a leak ...can you not see how much you contradict yourself ? as one example

I don't think either Charlie or I are actively doing Gas Work for commercial gain at present so no invested interest other than thousands reading your inaccurate, misinformed, and clueless ramblings.

Always rated your electrical knowledge , but if it extends to be as flawed as with gas I shall take with a pinch of salt in future .

Channa


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## eddyt (Dec 12, 2017)

channa said:


> No one suggested a manometer homemade or otherwise would "cause" a leak. However if testing and there is a significant drop the first thing to check is that the connection to the test nipple isn't the source of the leak. First thing to check is the integrity of where you have broke into the system. In that sense is how a manometer can be the leak !
> 
> Channa



hi
   if you push your pipe on the nipple then unscrew it a turn to get a
   reading could you have a leak on the threads of the nipple. what would 
   you do.put thread tape round the threads.


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## eddyt (Dec 12, 2017)

hairydog said:


> The nipple doesn't have threads round it. It has a smooth round circumference. The sealing screw fits into its middle. You can easily see how it works if you look. Just unscrew the screw, put your finger over the end till you are ready to push the pipe on.



hi
  that seems safe and simple enough to do then. especially for someone
  as competent as us.


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