# Cyclist stickers compulsory for vehicle going to France.



## Mobilvetta

On another group I'm a member of have adviced that if our Motorhome is over 3500kg then you will be required to display these stickers warning cyclist of blind spots. Apparently they tried to get camping cars exempt, but as things stand you will be required to have them displayed, failure to do so could land you a €135.00 fine. The blurb is below, does anyone know of this information is accurate or is it more scaremongering going around. 

*From January 1, 2021, the regulations change and the signaling of blind spots on heavy vehicles becomes mandatory. This new standard is governed by Decree n ° 2020-1396 of 17 November 2020 relating to signage materializing blind spots on vehicles whose total authorized weight exceeds 3.5 tonnes.
All heavy vehicles (truck and bus) must therefore display an adhesive sticker with a dimension of 17x25cm on both sides and at the rear of the vehicle.*


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## myvanwy

Would'nt it be better to tell cyclists that All vehicles have blind spots so behave yourselves.


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## Snapster

It’s accurate, though no one seems really sure if it will apply to motor homes or for foreign vehicles. We live in France and I haven’t seen any heavy vehicles displaying the stickers yet.


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## mariesnowgoose

Is it something to be particularly scared about?

They're only stickers 

Just another thing to add to the checklist before setting off?


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## Snapster

mariesnowgoose said:


> Is it something to be particularly scared about?
> 
> They're only stickers
> 
> Just another thing to add to the checklist before setting off?


The following is from the French gov site. It states there will be a 12 month transitional period, but I am still not 100% sure that motorhomes are required to display the stickers. As they are only a few € , I’ll be getting some anyway. 
Apparently, all heavy vehicles on French soil will be required to display them. 









						Les véhicules lourds doivent désormais être équipés d'une signalisation matérialisant leurs angles morts
					

Sur la route, les vélos, motos, scooters, engins de déplacement personnel motorisés et piétons sont plus petits et moins visibles qu'une voiture pour les conducteurs de véhicules lourds, et se retrouvent ainsi facilement hors de leur champ de vision, dans leurs angles morts. Ces zones dont les...




					www.securite-routiere.gouv.fr


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## mark61

I see an awful lot of stickers on the side of trucks in a few years time.

Numpties, should have standardised with English.


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## TeamRienza

What follows is the main body of a post I made on out and about.


Yes, if you follow your link and then further, the FFCC link, (the initials highlighted in red) you will arrive here, 

https://ffcc.fr/actualite/nos-campi...gnalisation-materialisant-leurs-angles-morts/ 

I have used google translate to good effect on the relevant section. 

All vehicles over 3.5 tonnes are concerned, our camper vans also, as well as their trailers if necessary. 

The FFCC contacted Marie GAUTIER-MELLERAY, Interministerial Delegate for Road Safety, to tell her that our vehicles were often modest in size, but she told us that the decree did not provide for any exemption for them. We will therefore have to get used to this new signage! 

On the road, bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, motorized personal transporters and pedestrians are smaller and less visible than a car to drivers of heavy vehicles. They are thus easily found out of their field of vision, in their blind spots. 

These areas, the extent of which vulnerable users are often unaware, are the source of serious and sometimes fatal accidents. To improve this situation, heavy vehicles must now affix signs showing their blind spots. They are thus better indicated to vulnerable users who circulate nearby. 

Further links detail the positioning of the stickers 

https://www.camping-car.com/nos-act...angles-morts-sera-t-elle-vraiment-obligatoire 

Translation of relevant detail, 

Article 2 of the decree indicates that the signage must be affixed on the rear face of the vehicle, to the right of the longitudinal median plane and at a height between 0.90 and 1.50 meters from the ground ... and in the first meter in front of the vehicle, excluding glass surfaces, on the left and right, and at a height of between 0.90 and 1.50 meters from the ground. 

There are plenty of stickers available. Failure to display is a €135 fine. 

A further information reply by a trusted poster quoted a link and this google translate.

*Cette réglementation s'applique aussi à tous les camping-caristes étrangers conduisant un poids lourd lorsqu'il circuleront sur le territoire français.* 

which translates to  

_"This regulation also applies to all foreign motorcaravanners driving a ‘heavy' motorhome (That’s a motorhome wit a Gross Vehicle Weight excedding 3500kg) when traveling on French territory.”

Davy _


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## wildebus

mariesnowgoose said:


> Is it something to be particularly scared about?
> 
> They're only stickers
> 
> Just another thing to add to the checklist before setting off?


Funnily enough before this question (and another like it that was posted in the last couple of weeks) I was behind a trailer that displayed the "if you can't see my mirrors I can't see you" type sticker and thought that could be a good idea to have that kind of sign on the back of a motorhome.

I see no reason to NOT have them, and also I don't see what the significance is of having them on a >3.5t vehicle only when the same blindspots will occur on lighter vehicles with an identical body.


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## RV2MAX

What about if no blindspots ?   eg 360 camera system ?


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## Derekoak

I passed a lorry trailer recently on the right rear it said "if you cant see my mirrors I cant see you". On the right rear it said "warning this vehicle has cameras installed". Funny they never thought to install them to cover blind spots first!!


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## terry111

It could mean an awful lot of stickers if we have to have them in in the language of every country we pass through. English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, German, Serbo-Croat...


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## TeamRienza

Surely the EU would have a uniform sign which should be visually interpreted without words. Virtually every road sign is devoid of words for the essential meaning, with the possible exception of STOP (seen frequently in France) or weight restrictions etc.

Davy


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## RichardHelen262

I doubt any cyclists will take any notice of them,


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## Moped

The stickers measure 17x25cm or 6.5x10inch which is just about the size of an iPad with 2 on the rear and 2 on each cab door side. No obstructions permitted so could get complicated for those who carry bikes or motorbikes on the back and at the same time complying with sign placement rules.


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## mossypossy

Swings and roundabouts.
Might need stickers now but we can ignore the speed cameras now!


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## Snapster

TeamRienza said:


> Surely the EU would have a uniform sign which should be visually interpreted without words. Virtually every road sign is devoid of words for the essential meaning, with the possible exception of STOP (seen frequently in France) or weight restrictions etc.
> 
> Davy



At the moment, it’s only France who require these stickers ( one on each side and one at the back) so no need for multiple languages/ different stickers. ( yet!)



mossypossy said:


> Swings and roundabouts.
> Might need stickers now but we can ignore the speed cameras now!


How can you ignore speed cameras? All EU countries still have access to the DVLA database.
And if they didn’t, or lose access in the future, I can see border controls having direct access to speed camera / red light camera results so you could be asked to pay fines before you leave. I’m pretty sure Spain have the ability to do this now. We were pulled over on the French Spanish border last year while one of the border control guards stood next to us consulting a computer terminal before letting us on our way.


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## Snapster

Derekoak said:


> I passed a lorry trailer recently on the right rear it said "if you cant see my mirrors I cant see you". On the right rear it said "warning this vehicle has cameras installed". Funny they never thought to install them to cover blind spots first!!


A friend of mine used to work for the forestry commission. He drove a new Volvo lorry which had cameras at the rear, sides and front covering all blind spots, with warning beepers should anybody be close to the vehicle at those points. Surely, most new lorries would be fitted with these, a much better system than a sign, which in most cases, will only be seen as you collide with it?


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## Wooie1958

mossypossy said:


> Swings and roundabouts.
> Might need stickers now but we can ignore the speed cameras now!



How do you work that one out ?


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## Penny13

So I wonder has anyone else used weight limited roads they shouldn’t in France ? Now we really can’t as these stickers will very visibly say we are over the 350 limit.


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## mark61

According to another post the cross border directive has now stopped. So make the most of it,   I know, you can't at the moment.

Wonder if the French border control will have access to speeding/driving offences in other EU countries. Sure that won't be too far down the road.


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## mariesnowgoose

mark61 said:


> According to another post the cross border directive has now stopped. So make the most of it,   I know, you can't at the moment.
> 
> Wonder if the French border control will have access to speeding/driving offences in other EU countries. Sure that won't be too far down the road.



And they could easily adopt more on the spot instant traffic fines instead.

Anyway, my speeding days are over. 
It's much easier to just drive within the law.


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## mark61

mariesnowgoose said:


> And they could easily adopt more on the spot instant traffic fines instead.
> 
> Anyway, my speeding days are over.
> It's much easier to just drive within the law.



They'll be needing a lot more coppers to do that, and at the moment it looks like the current police are needed elsewhere. We think we are divided.
Anyway, speeding is different to exceeding a limit.


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## mariesnowgoose

mark61 said:


> They'll be needing a lot more coppers to do that, and at the moment it looks like the current police are needed elsewhere. We think we are divided.
> *Anyway, speeding is different to exceeding a limit*.



You might be stepping over the Mark there ...


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## Snapster

mark61 said:


> According to another post the cross border directive has now stopped. So make the most of it,   I know, you can't at the moment.
> 
> Wonder if the French border control will have access to speeding/driving offences in other EU countries. Sure that won't be too far down the road.



Like a saddo, I read ( some) of the final trade deal that was signed off by the government. IT has a rather large section on how the EU have access to the DVLA database. So, unless this has changed in the last 2 weeks, the French can still access the DVLA.


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## Snapster

This is the article I mentioned above. . It allows other states to share vehicle registration and owner data.
Whether this will apply in speeding or other motoring offences, is not Clear, but probable. 

_Article LAW.PRUM.15: Automated searching of vehicle registration data
1. For the prevention and investigation of criminal offences and in dealing with other offences within the jurisdiction of the courts or a public prosecutor in the requesting State, as well as in maintaining public security, States shall allow other States' national contact points, as referred to in paragraph 2, access to the following domestic vehicle registration data, with the power to conduct automated searches in individual cases:
(a) (b)
data relating to owners or operators; and data relating to vehicles.
2.Searches may be conducted under paragraph 1 only with a full chassis number or a full
registration number and in compliance with the requesting State's domestic law.
3. For the purposes of the supply of data as referred to in paragraph 1, the States shall designate a national contact point for incoming requests from other States. The powers of the national contact points shall be governed by the applicable domestic law._


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## mark61

Snapster said:


> This is the article I mentioned above. . It allows other states to share vehicle registration and owner data.
> Whether this will apply in speeding or other motoring offences, is not Clear, but probable.
> 
> _Article LAW.PRUM.15: Automated searching of vehicle registration data
> 1. For the prevention and investigation of criminal offences and in dealing with other offences within the jurisdiction of the courts or a public prosecutor in the requesting State, as well as in maintaining public security, States shall allow other States' national contact points, as referred to in paragraph 2, access to the following domestic vehicle registration data, with the power to conduct automated searches in individual cases:
> (a) (b)
> data relating to owners or operators; and data relating to vehicles.
> 2.Searches may be conducted under paragraph 1 only with a full chassis number or a full
> registration number and in compliance with the requesting State's domestic law.
> 3. For the purposes of the supply of data as referred to in paragraph 1, the States shall designate a national contact point for incoming requests from other States. The powers of the national contact points shall be governed by the applicable domestic law._


 Would appear The Times has it wrong.


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## Snapster

Like most official stuff, it’s not really clear if this is in place now or something for the future, but I assumed it would come into force on 1st January and will give the same access to drivers details as before.


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## TJBi

mark61 said:


> They'll be needing a lot more coppers to do that, and at the moment it looks like the current police are needed elsewhere. We think we are divided.
> Anyway, speeding is different to exceeding a limit.


It is my understanding that in France the detection of speeding offences has, at least in part, been subcontracted to private companies.


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## Wooie1958

I had a dream last night and have now come up with a cunning plan to avoid these unnecessary, worrying and financially debibiltating fines.

Stay within the speed limit


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## Compo

go to bed


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## Derekoak

Wooie1958 said:


> I had a dream last night and have now come up with a cunning plan to avoid these unnecessary, worrying and financially debibiltating fines.
> 
> Stay within the speed limit


I totally agree. However it is not that easy. Speed limits vary from 130km/hr to walking pace across Europe. Signs can be small , obscured by vegetation and hard to see because of the other clutter of attention needing stimuli present in urban environments, such as pedestrians wanting to cross the road.  Sat navs are not always correct as to what the speed limit is.  It is not always the case that urban speed limits have a clear notice that they are over, at least the 30 km ones within the boundary of French 50 km villages. I have been fined 3 times, once in Britain  twice in France when I thought I was driving sedately within the speed limit.


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## Luckheart

mariesnowgoose said:


> Is it something to be particularly scared about?
> 
> They're only stickers
> 
> Just another thing to add to the checklist before setting off?


Yeah, but the're like - sticky!


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## Wooie1958

Only been fined for speeding once and that was at 05.30am one November morning back in 1987 on the A66 near Cockermouth.

There was no one about then all of a sudden i saw a Police car flashing at me from the rear so i pulled into the next layby.

He`d clocked me doing 56MPH on the 50MPH section but it probably didn`t help when i asked him which crack in the ground he`d crawled out of ?

I also refused point blank to let him into the cab of the wagon i was driving as it was full of electronics worth a bloody fortune.

If he needed to do further checks i would follow him to the nearest Police station otherwise just give me the ticket and let me go which he did.


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## Derekoak

My 3 were Wales 45 in what I thought was rural 60mph but they thought was 30 urban, but no sign I could see and no street lights except perhaps occasional  wooden telegraph posts some of which might have had a light on.
The last in France 36 when I thought the 30km speed bump area must be over as speed bumps had stopped hundreds of metres ago and so thought I was in 50km.
  The other 86 in 80km where the road signs said 90 still and my satnav still showed 90 even though I updated it before leaving. This was about a month after the French change.  Yes I knew that the law had changed but all the cues I use were against me.


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## Brockley

I was stopped in a French village years ago by a local gendarme. I didn’t see any speed limit, he was very good in the way he dealt with me. He asked me what the speed limit was in the village. I replied quite honestly that the last speed limit I saw was 60. I couldn’t have been doing more than 55 due to do to the usual village chicanes!

He didn’t fine me but chose to educate me instead and explained that any white village sign with a thin red line around the border specifically meant no more than 50 unless you see a sign saying slower.

His tactic worked, I’ve never sped in a French villages since.

As for the cyclists stickers, it seems daft that I recently up plated our van to 4 tons from 3.5 because of the ridiculous load allowance. The footprint and volume of the vehicle hasn’t altered a jot. Perhaps it’s the increased kinetic energy that risks causing harm to cyclists........... not!

Hope this one is consigned to the same paper bin that breath test kits seem to have ended up in!


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## mark61

Must confess to having a wee snigger when those preaching don't speed, get speeding tickets.  






Brockley said:


> I was stopped in a French village years ago by a local gendarme. I didn’t see any speed limit, he was very good in the way he dealt with me. He asked me what the speed limit was in the village. I replied quite honestly that the last speed limit I saw was 60. I couldn’t have been doing more than 55 due to do to the usual village chicanes!
> 
> He didn’t fine me but chose to educate me instead and explained that any white village sign with a thin red line around the border specifically meant no more than 50 unless you see a sign saying slower.
> 
> His tactic worked, I’ve never sped in a French villages since.
> 
> *As for the cyclists stickers, it seems daft that I recently up plated our van to 4 tons from 3.5 because of the ridiculous load allowance. The footprint and volume of the vehicle hasn’t altered a jot. Perhaps it’s the increased kinetic energy that risks causing harm to cyclists........... not!*
> 
> Hope this one is consigned to the same paper bin that breath test kits seem to have ended up in!



Don't think we can expect legislation to take account of the very few % of vehicles that are up plated. Pretty sure that mostly happens to MH's, don't really hear of many other users up plating. Would be better if manufacturers actually put their conversions on the right model in the first place.


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## Snapster

Derekoak said:


> I totally agree. However it is not that easy. Speed limits vary from 130km/hr to walking pace across Europe. Signs can be small , obscured by vegetation and hard to see because of the other clutter of attention needing stimuli present in urban environments, such as pedestrians wanting to cross the road.  Sat navs are not always correct as to what the speed limit is.  It is not always the case that urban speed limits have a clear notice that they are over, at least the 30 km ones within the boundary of French 50 km villages. I have been fined 3 times, once in Britain  twice in France when I thought I was driving sedately within the speed limit.


We’ve been travelling around France on holiday for over 35 years and have lived here for 4. As far as I can tell, all speed limit signs in France are of uniform size and should be the same type as in the UK (1968 Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals)
They are just as easy, or hard to see as UK signs. They signal speed limit changes quite clearly and are always on the outskirts of towns and villages, many will even give you advance warning up to 200 meters from the limit change. 
I really don’t see how anybody can be confused. The signs show you the speed limit, you stick to the limit. Simple. You even get advance warning of many speed cameras. I’m sure local authorities are more concerned with ensuring there are adequate signs to tell you what speed you should be driving, rather than hide them to encourage you to exceed the speed limit and get fined.
True, Gendarmes and police might be more enthusiastic about catching you speeding, but they only catch you if you are driving too fast. 
Ive never had a speeding ticket in France.....

You watch, I’ll probably get one tomorrow


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## Brockley

I guess that depends on your definition of “other users” Mark. I consider our Chausson 630 a camper van rather than a motorhome. My experience of our type of camper van/motorhome leads me to understand that many are in a similar position and really should up plate or run the risk of having no insurance following a RTC.

Clearly the fault of the many camper van/motorhome manufacturers because they downplay the problem at the point of sale. They’d sooner not sell camper vans/motorhomes and fess up the implications should you choose to drive with a little extra weight (some as little as a full water tank - something many wild campers surely rely on) without up plating. They should tell you exactly how much weight you are allowed to carry, where to go to get up plated, how much it costs, what licence you must have should you want to carry essential equipment and how you might qualify.

My guess is that the majority of coach built camper van/motorhomes are insurance void simply because they are overweight, uninsured and not using the vehicle any way towards it’s potential.

Only my opinion of course, but might be worth looking into. Most local immunity sites will either weigh you for free or take a fiver for their bother


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## Brockley

Snapster said:


> We’ve been travelling around France on holiday for over 35 years and have lived here for 4. As far as I can tell, all speed limit signs in France are of uniform size and should be the same type as in the UK (1968 Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals)
> They are just as easy, or hard to see as UK signs. They signal speed limit changes quite clearly and are always on the outskirts of towns and villages, many will even give you advance warning up to 200 meters from the limit change.
> I really don’t see how anybody can be confused. The signs show you the speed limit, you stick to the limit. Simple. You even get advance warning of many speed cameras. I’m sure local authorities are more concerned with ensuring there are adequate signs to tell you what speed you should be driving, rather than hide them to encourage you to exceed the speed limit and get fined.
> True, Gendarmes and police might be more enthusiastic about catching you speeding, but they only catch you if you are driving too fast.
> Ive never had a speeding ticket in France.....
> 
> You watch, I’ll probably get one tomorrow



We don’t have anywhere near that much experience driving in France as we only started in 2006, however we’ve experienced many French villages all over the country with no official speed limit displayed other than the red line around the white village name as you enter, hence-wise my anecdote about the French policeman.


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## Snapster

The vast majority of towns and villages have speed limits set at 50kph so there is no need for extra speed signs to be displayed. You see a village/ town sign, you know it’s 50. If it isn’t 50, then you will see an alternative speed sign. ( 70, 45, 30 or whatever) When it’s 50, that’s the only time you won’t see a speed limit sign, but you may see repeater speed signs throughout the village or town)


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## Snapster

Back on track with the cyclist ( angles mort) stickers. I saw a commune (local authority) truck with them on today...


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## Wildstar

Does it indicate what language or is it to be in about fourteen languages to suit any cyclist one may encounter. If so by the time they have read the warning you have probably run over them, whoooops.


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## Snapster

Wildstar said:


> Does it indicate what language or is it to be in about fourteen languages to suit any cyclist one may encounter. If so by the time they have read the warning you have probably run over them, whoooops.


They are just in French. 
I don’t really think they will have any effect on cyclists. They ( well, many of them) ignore every other warning that might impede their flow....


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## Wooie1958

Snapster said:


> They are just in French.
> I don’t really think they will have any effect on cyclists. They ( well, many of them) ignore every other warning that might impede their flow....



Over the years i`ve nearly wiped out several French cyclists due to the fact that they do not seem to know or understand what the word STOP means.

One particular instance springs to mind when a large group of fat lycra clad 50+ year old budding Tour de Francers just came out of a side road in front of us.

It was not in a "   Priorité à Droite " area as indicated by the solid white line across the end of their road but that did not make any difference, they just came out.

They really should have bought lottery tickets that night because only gawd knows how i missed them and i was doing 70KMH.

Having said that they do exactly the same over here so maybe the very act of getting on a bicycle switches off that part of their brains.


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## witzend

Derekoak said:


> I passed a lorry trailer recently on the right rear it said "if you cant see my mirrors I cant see you". On the right rear it said "warning this vehicle has cameras installed". Funny they never thought to install them to cover blind spots first!!


New lorries now have cameras installed in place of mirrors with a screen to show the view inside each door pillar  so would have the same blind spots sharp turns at junctions you loose all of your rear view along truck while turning


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## Derekoak

witzend said:


> New lorries now have cameras installed in place of mirrors with a screen to show the view inside each door pillar  so would have the same blind spots sharp turns at junctions you loose all of your rear view along truck while turning


A bit unimaginative replacing mirrors with cameras. Lorries and large vehicles need Extra cameras to cover all blind spots. For example a camera facing down at the back of the trailer to cover the obvious blind spot behind. Do you suggest this is technically impossible?


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## mark61

Sure the new side cameras are a big improvement, can't wait till they are on smaller commercials.

Technically its possible to fit as many cameras as anyone could want. Might run out of space for monitors,  easy solvable though.


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## witzend

Derekoak said:


> A bit unimaginative replacing mirrors with cameras. Lorries and large vehicles need Extra cameras to cover all blind spots. For example a camera facing down at the back of the trailer to cover the obvious blind spot behind. Do you suggest this is technically impossible?


Not impossible but very impractical after first few miles they are blocked by road dirt, tipper after every drop every trailer would need one with universal connections here's Mercedes answer 








						New Mercedes Actros pioneers MirrorCams and more | The Truck Expert
					

Four years after stealing IAA Hannover show headlines with its Future Truck 2025 concept vehicle, Mercedes-Benz was at it again.




					tinyurl.com


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## clewless

RichardHelen262 said:


> I doubt any cyclists will take any notice of them,


I cycle and rest assured, I am extremely careful of getting alongside a large (or any) vehicle. A sticker to remind cyclists can only help reduce this common (and often fatal) type of accident. The last thing any driver wants is to be involved in a court case where they have killed or injured a cyclist, even if it wasn't their fault.


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## clewless

Snapster said:


> A friend of mine used to work for the forestry commission. He drove a new Volvo lorry which had cameras at the rear, sides and front covering all blind spots, with warning beepers should anybody be close to the vehicle at those points. Surely, most new lorries would be fitted with these, a much better system than a sign, which in most cases, will only be seen as you collide with it?


The danger is cyclists along side a large vehicle (& in blind spot) when stationary at traffic lights etc. The cyclist goes straight on, but the vehicle turns. The vehicle crushes the cyclist. All too common and sometimes a very large lorry doesn't even realize the have run over & killed anyone.


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## Apollo 13

I doubt we (the entire population) will ever completely stop these types of collisions because of the many factors involved, such as attitude, concentration, third party complications such as other pedestrians or vehicles also at play when a driver is turning, and the lack of basic understanding about the closing down of space on the inside of the turn when vehicles are turning, something most non-drivers don't seem to understand. Although its far from unheard of for car drivers and motorcyclists to try and squeeze down the inside of a turning vehicle 

I'm sure that most of these accidents are the fault of poor training on the part of one or both parties, with cyclists being most at fault. But, as drivers, we know that cyclists do stupid things either by ignorance or attitude so we should take control of the situation by acting responsibly,  as we would when we see children playing at the edge of the road, and assume that they ARE going to do something daft just at the wrong moment.  Running someone over is not the best way to teach someone a lesson,  but is is safe to expect that everyone else is not paying attention and act accordingly.  We just need to keep our heads on a ball-bearing and watch our mirrors, and ALWAYS USE  OUR INDICATORS. 
I hope these stickers are part of an education programme of some kind about the risks, as without it I doubt many will even notice them or understand the message.


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## ArDachaidh

I've read some of the posts here and disappointed that we get the usual suspects complaining about cyclists.  As a cyclist and also a driver, I don't find these comments at all helpful.  Blaming cyclists is far from the reality.  If I were to list all the dangerous things some drivers do I'd be here all day and we'd be no further forward in making everybody safer.

The revised Highway Code will list a kind of priority of responsibility, ie a "hierarchy of road users which ensures that those road users who can do the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they may pose to others" Revision to Highway Code

Gratuitous insults levelled at one group or another doesn't really help.


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## Robmac

ArDachaidh said:


> I've read some of the posts here and disappointed that we get the usual suspects complaining about cyclists.  As a cyclist and also a driver, I don't find these comments at all helpful.  Blaming cyclists is far from the reality.  If I were to list all the dangerous things some drivers do I'd be here all day and we'd be no further forward in making everybody safer.
> 
> The revised Highway Code will list a kind of priority of responsibility, ie a "hierarchy of road users which ensures that those road users who can do the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they may pose to others" Revision to Highway Code
> 
> Gratuitous insults levelled at one group or another doesn't really help.



Having read through the posts in this thread, I find very little anti-cyclist material on the whole. Yes a couple of people have complained about cyclists doing stupid things - and why not complain about that.

If you look back through this forum there are several incidences of posters complaining about car, truck or even motorhome drivers often backed up with dash cam evidence, so isn't it only fair to complain when cyclists do something stupid?

In general though, the thread is to make people aware of legislation to help cyclists, which is a good thing isn't it?


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## antiquesam

Seems very strange that a foreign country can automatically get the information needed to fine someone for speeding when we no longer get information on criminals as we did up until this year.


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## Snapster

Well, I ordered my Angles Morts stickers a couple of weeks ago and decided I might as well fit them. Although they are required to be fitted in 1st January, we have till the end of the year to comply.
The side ones are supposed to be a metre from the front, which means removing the Ducato badges, but I wasn’t going to do that. The regulations state if they can’t be fitted there, then as close as possible, within 3 metres.
They don’t look too bad!


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## TeamRienza

Good to see them fitted. They look less intrusive than I imagined. Mine arrived on Thursday, but I won’t fit them until we get back to France in due course.

I had been mulling over how I might place them without them being a permanent fixture. My van has aluminium sides and rear panel is (I think) fibreglass, so I don’t think a magnetic version would work.

Davy


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## Snapster

Mine are incredibly sticky, once they are on, they won’t come off!


----------



## yeoblade

Snapster said:


> Well, I ordered my Angles Morts stickers a couple of weeks ago and decided I might as well fit them. Although they are required to be fitted in 1st January, we have till the end of the year to comply.
> The side ones are supposed to be a metre from the front, which means removing the Ducato badges, but I wasn’t going to do that. The regulations state if they can’t be fitted there, then as close as possible, within 3 metres.
> *They don’t look too bad!*
> View attachment 92602View attachment 92604


"They don't look too bad."
Can't agree with that, not your fault, but I think they look cr4p on a personal private vehicle, different for commercials though as they're covered in pointless signs.


----------



## Snapster

yeoblade said:


> "*They don't look too bad*."
> Can't agree with that, not your fault, but I think they look cr4p on a personal private vehicle, different for commercials though as they're covered in pointless signs.


They do, I was trying to make myself feel better!  I hate putting any stickers on vehicles, I still need to pluck up the courage to put the ‘limit de vitesse’ stickers on the back. 80,100 and 110. I’ve managed to resist for 2 years, but as only over 3500kg vehicles need the angles morts stickers, it will be obvious I need to display the speed stickers now.....


----------



## TeamRienza

I upgraded to 3850kg a year or so back. It isn’t obvious that my van requires the angle morts stickers but given my van is on UK plates (sort of, N. Ireland reg) it remains to be seen what the attitude of French police will be. Pre leaving I would have taken a chance on not being stopped. The legislation on these stickers refers to non French Motorhomes as well as French whose association has lobbied, in vain to date, to have leisure vehicles exempted.

However it was my understanding that your vehicle did not require speed limiting stickers if they were not required in country of residence. You have now placed a seed of doubt in my mind. I shall have to do a bit of research unless someone can link to the correct requirement.

Davy


----------



## Snapster

We live in France with a French reg van, so I need all the stickers. 
I’m pretty sure speed stickers are not required on UK vehicles, but Angles morts stickers are ( if over 3500kg)


----------



## Wooie1958

Similarly i`ve also resisted putting the 80, 100 and 110 speed stickers on because i can`t stand any extra stuff / stickers plastered all over vehicles.

As you say though they along with these new  Angles Morts stickers will advertise the fact that your are over 3,500kg      

In the past i`ve always ignored the 3,500kg weight restriction road signs because the majority of French motorhomes seem to ignore them as well.

One that immediately springs to mind is the road into Uzerche that has a very,very short 3,500kg weight limit section on it resulting in a huge diversion.

The Crit`air sticker i got round by sticking it to a piece of clear thick perspex sheet and then wedging it in the correct corner ( our drivers side ) of the windscreen.

I put it in place whilst in the queue at Dover going out and take it out whilst in the queue at Calais coming back otherwise it lives in the glovebox.

The Gendarmerie are more than happy with it like that as we`ve been pulled a couple of times at roadside check points and passed ok.


----------



## Snapster

Wooie1958 said:


> In the past i`ve always ignored the 3,500kg weight restriction road signs because the majority of French motorhomes seem to ignore them as well.
> 
> One that immediately springs to mind is the road into Uzerche that has a very,very short 3,500kg weight limit section on it resulting in a huge diversion.


When we were allowed to travel last summer we went to an aire in France that had approach roads all banning vehicles over 3500kg, with a French reg van, of course, we had to ignore them. 
When we got to the site, we were one of the smallest vans there!
Maybe this will change in the future......


----------



## Slimesub5

RichardHelen262 said:


> I doubt any cyclists will take any notice of them,


“Any”?! I guess all MH drivers don’t check their mirrors for cyclists at junctions too!


----------



## witzend

Snapster said:


> When we were allowed to travel last summer we went to an aire in France that had approach roads all banning vehicles over 3500kg, with a French reg van, of course, we had to ignore them.
> When we got to the site, we were one of the smallest vans there!
> Maybe this will change in the future......


I had a French man tell me those weight signs didn't apply to Camping cars only to lorries he pointed to the sign which did have a lorry on it He  was very positive on this but I've still been very wary


----------



## Snapster

The signs with the lorry and weight apply to lorries only. But a circular sign outlined in red with just a weight shown inside applies to all vehicle over that weight.


----------



## audreybarber

You also have to have a GB sticker (not the one on number plate)


----------



## Snapster

audreybarber said:


> You also have to have a GB sticker (not the one on number plate)




You do not need a GB sticker if your number plate includes the GB identifier on its own or with the Union flag. But you will need to display a GBsticker clearly on the rear of your vehicle if your number plate has any of the following:


a Euro symbol
a national flag of England, Scotland or Wales
numbers and letters only - no flag or identifier
If you’re in Spain, Cyprus or Malta, you must display a GB sticker no matter what is on your number plate.


----------



## RoaminRog

I have a Fiamma Luggage Box bolted on to my cycle rack at the rear of the bus. For the sake of ensuring the Angles Morts sticker is easily noticed, I am planning to mount the sticker to this, again on the right hand side. Can anybody advise if this is acceptable to the French please, or does it have to attach to the actual vehicle bodywork?


----------



## vindiboy

RoaminRog said:


> I have a Fiamma Luggage Box bolted on to my cycle rack at the rear of the bus. For the sake of ensuring the Angles Morts sticker is easily noticed, I am planning to mount the sticker to this, again on the right hand side. Can anybody advise if this is acceptable to the French please, or does it have to attach to the actual vehicle bodywork?


Stickers only required if van is over 3.5 tonnes GROSS


----------



## RoaminRog

vindiboy said:


> Stickers only required if van is over 3.5 tonnes GROSS


We are 3800kg gross


----------



## SquirrellCook

Each time I see a French HGV on the A1(M) that I travel on daily, I look for the sticker!  I'm yet to see one.


----------



## Snapster

RoaminRog said:


> I have a Fiamma Luggage Box bolted on to my cycle rack at the rear of the bus. For the sake of ensuring the Angles Morts sticker is easily noticed, I am planning to mount the sticker to this, again on the right hand side. Can anybody advise if this is acceptable to the French please, or does it have to attach to the actual vehicle bodywork?


More and more heavy vehicles are having these fitted now, though there is a 12 month period from 1st Jan to comply. Expect to see more as time goes on. We had a delivery from IKEA on Friday and their 7.5 tonne lorry had them fitted. ( as does our motorhome) 
These are the fitting regulations, translated from French.
_These stickers must be applied to the bodywork, between 0.90 m and 1.50 m in height, at the rear ("to the right of the longitudinal median plane") and on the sides (in the first meter before the vehicle, excluding glass surfaces, left and right). It is obvious, the stickers must not hide any other obligatory signage (lights and buttons)._


----------



## yeoblade

Snapster said:


> More and more heavy vehicles are having these fitted now, though there is a 12 month period from 1st Jan to comply. Expect to see more as time goes on. We had a delivery from IKEA on Friday and their 7.5 tonne lorry had them fitted. ( as does our motorhome)
> These are the fitting regulations, translated from French.
> _*These stickers must be applied to the bodywork*, between 0.90 m and 1.50 m in height, at the rear ("to the right of the longitudinal median plane") and on the sides (in the first meter before the vehicle, excluding glass surfaces, left and right). It is obvious, the stickers must not hide any other obligatory signage (lights and buttons)._


they just wanna ruin the bodywork, not even allowed on a cycle rack  ironically!


----------



## Compo

what about magnetic signs for the front ??


----------



## Snapster

Compo said:


> what about magnetic signs for the front ??


Great idea, let me know if you find any.


----------



## RichardHelen262

SquirrellCook said:


> Each time I see a French HGV on the A1(M) that I travel on daily, I look for the sticker!  I'm yet to see one.



I spend a lot of time on the motorways and have noticed all the foreign wagons have them except the French


----------



## RichardHelen262

Snapster said:


> Great idea, let me know if you find any.


Just buy blank magnetic sign material and stick them onto it and cut to size, this is what I shall be doing


----------



## TeamRienza

Unless I can come up with a better plan, I intend to place the stickers into poly pockets and tape them to the van with masking tape. Should be easily removed and reused as needed.

Davy


----------



## yeoblade

Snapster said:


> Great idea, let me know if you find any.


eBay have them


----------



## RichardHelen262

TeamRienza said:


> Unless I can come up with a better plan, I intend to place the stickers into poly pockets and tape them to the van with masking tape. Should be easily removed and reused as needed.
> 
> Davy



nothing harder to remove than masking tape once it’s been wet or been on too long, just use a vinyl tape or insulation tape


----------



## TeamRienza

Thanks for that.

Davy


----------



## Wooie1958

RichardHelen262 said:


> Just buy blank magnetic sign material and stick them onto it and cut to size, this is what I shall be doing




Great idea    let me know ( by PM if you want to keep it a secret   ) where`ll you`ll be then i`ll know where to go when i want a set


----------



## RichardHelen262

Wooie1958 said:


> Great idea    let me know ( by PM if you want to keep it a secret   ) where`ll you`ll be then i`ll know where to go when i want a set



No problem I will use the three word system, no prizes for guessing the three words


----------



## Barcobird

Compo said:


> what about magnetic signs for the front ??


Fine if you have metal doors, I would think most vehicles over 3500 are A class with GRP or similar etc


----------



## Snapster

If you have a recent Sevel built van, I think you will be hard pushed to find a flat enough space on the front doors for a magnetic plate to fix to properly and comply with the regulations. It would need to be as flexible as the signs themselves. Any gaps and the wind ( and sticky fingers) would get underneath and rip them off. The signs are 17x25 cm


----------



## Wooie1958

RichardHelen262 said:


> No problem I will use the three word system, no prizes for guessing the three words



Are the initials for them to do with outer space


----------



## RoaminRog

My Renault Master based Autotrail has a metal cab but a fibreglass body. We have already bought three sticker type signs but have just reordered two magnetic ones.
The plan therefore is to use the pair of magnetic signs on the cab and (for the time being) attach a sticky one to the back of the luggage box. If we get stopped, and they want to argue the finer details, I will have a couple of spare stickers to hand and they can show me where to stick it! 
With the box on the back, if I attach the sticker to the bodywork, it will not be able to be seen from all angles, but attached to the box it will be a lot more visible generally. Anyway, all bases covered, I think. Thanks for all replies.


----------



## RichardHelen262

RoaminRog said:


> My Renault Master based Autotrail has a metal cab but a fibreglass body. We have already bought three sticker type signs but have just reordered two magnetic ones.
> The plan therefore is to use the pair of magnetic signs on the cab and (for the time being) attach a sticky one to the back of the luggage box. If we get stopped, and they want to argue the finer details, I will have a couple of spare stickers to hand and they can show me where to stick it!
> With the box on the back, if I attach the sticker to the bodywork, it will not be able to be seen from all angles, but attached to the box it will be a lot more visible generally. Anyway, all bases covered, I think. Thanks for all replies.


Just don’t let wooie know where you are parked up


----------



## Snapster

RoaminRog said:


> My Renault Master based Autotrail has a metal cab but a fibreglass body. We have already bought three sticker type signs but have just reordered two magnetic ones.
> The plan therefore is to use the pair of magnetic signs on the cab and (for the time being) attach a sticky one to the back of the luggage box. If we get stopped, and they want to argue the finer details, I will have a couple of spare stickers to hand and they can show me where to stick it!
> With the box on the back, if I attach the sticker to the bodywork, it will not be able to be seen from all angles, but attached to the box it will be a lot more visible generally. Anyway, all bases covered, I think. Thanks for all replies.


I am sure you will be fine with the rear sticker on the back box. I’ve seen a couple of coaches with ski / luggage boxes on the back and the stickers were stuck on the rear of the luggage box.


----------



## RoaminRog

Snapster said:


> I am sure you will be fine with the rear sticker on the back box. I’ve seen a couple of coaches with ski / luggage boxes on the back and the stickers were stuck on the rear of the luggage box.


Great! Thanks for that


----------



## witzend

I thought of this thread as recently I've seen a lot of our lorries with blind spot warnings of different designs. This morning I saw a small british gas service van with one on it so if it becomes a requirement here will we need both to travel to France


----------



## witzend

TeamRienza said:


> I upgraded to 3850kg a year or so back. It isn’t obvious that my van requires the angle morts stickers


Although its not visually obvious that my vans over 3.5 I'll not risk not having the stickers as if unfortunate enough to be involved in a accident I'll take a bet any accident investigator will notice it then I'd be to blame whether I was or not


----------



## Snapster

French police Gendarmes and customs do a lot of vehicle checks. We have been stopped in both our car and van numerous times. First thing they want to see is your driving licence, then registration document. We have our insurance details displayed on our windscreens so they don’t usually need to see the full document.
Your V5 will show the vehicle weight so anybody can see whether you should be displaying the stickers.
Although the law came into force this January, you have 12 months to comply. 
Quite a few people seem to think they will not put the stickers on it that no one will bother checking, but as of next January, it will become a legal requirement, the same as insurance, driving licences and mot/CT tests. 
We have just come back from a 10 day trip around Normandy. Every heavy motor home we saw on aires displayed the stickers, even those from other EU countries. Of course, many motor homes that look like 3500kg vans could be heavier so sometimes you can’t tell without checking the Vin/ v5


----------



## Deleted member 56601

Anyone not displaying a sticker is inviting the Gendarmes etc to stop you, so why take the risk?


----------



## witzend

> I've seen a lot of our lorries with blind spot warnings of different designs. This morning I saw a small british gas service van with one on it so if it becomes a requirement here will we need both to travel to France



_I'd not risk a fine over the stickers, But how do we stand with the bit that say's if a vehicles legal in it's home country it's legal there. They come over here and aren't required to have rear fog lights and if they have them there on the wrong side but its a mot failure here for one example _


----------



## Compo

it is legal over here to drive on the left


----------



## Snapster

witzend said:


> _I'd not risk a fine over the stickers, But how do we stand with the bit that say's if a vehicles legal in it's home country it's legal there. They come over here and aren't required to have rear fog lights and if they have them there on the wrong side but its a mot failure here for one example _


Good point, but your fog lamp, if you just have one, will be the wrong side when you’re over there.


----------



## jacquigem

Yes I think we had to rewire fog lamps when our vehicles put on Spainish plates. Certainly for car.


----------



## witzend

Snapster said:


> Good point, but your fog lamp, if you just have one, will be the wrong side when you’re over there.


Thats just the point I'm trying to make we don't have to have that altered to come to France because it's legal in its home country
Are rear fog lights a legal requirement in France a friend who came home from France when having a MOT'd here it failed because it had none


----------



## Snapster

Yes, fog lamps are a legal requirement on vehicles in France. Vehicle construction and use regulations, though broadly similar throughout the world, do have some differences. For example, in France, trailers and caravans over 500kg PTAC ( MAM) have to have their own registration number and registration document ( Carte Gris). Motorcycles don’t need a CT( mot) and M1 class vehicles need a CT test ( mot) after 4 years, then every two years.
14 year olds and anyone else can drive specially designed small cars after a few hours training and without a driving licence ( voiture sans permis)
However, the cyclist stickers are not a contruction and use item, they are a mandatory “safety” requirement for vehicles over 3500kg used in France. 
Whether they actually reduce accidents or are worth the vinyl they’re printed on, is another matter!


----------



## Annsman

Is this going to be another one of those things like the breathalyser kits which were touted as being "Mandatory", only for the entire French nation to ignore it, and it became obsolete before the date prosecutions would start?


----------



## Snapster

With the breathalyser, although the decree was passed into law, there was a serious supply issue of these kits and fines for non compliance were rarely given and I believe the law to carry them has been scrapped. The Angles Morts decree was passed into legislation on 1st January 2021with a 12 month period to comply. There is no shortage of stickers or supply issues so it’s very unlikely to go the same was as the breathalyser law.
Only time will tell, but it’s rare now, in France, to see a heavy vehicle without these stickers on. 
We still carry two breathalyser kits in our vehicles. The drink drive law is much stricter in France with harsher penalties.
We do have the Angles Morts stickers on the van too!


----------



## witzend

Snapster said:


> We do have the Angles Morts stickers on the van too!


And the way there appearing on lorries and vans in the UK I'd not be surprised to see it become a legal requirement here as well.


----------



## Compo

is that sticker  no more than 1 mtr from front of van ?


----------



## Brockley

This is the first Angles Mort sticker I’ve seen this trip on a Belgium campervan/motorhome. None of the many queueing up for the Dublin-Cherbourg ferry had them and a lot of them were French.





I’ve noticed an increase in the volume of campervan/motorhomes on French roads this trip. Maybe imagined but sure seems to be a lot more, perhaps like the British Isles - ramped up by ‘Costa Covid Campers’ waiting for flights to return .

For me, when the time comes I’ll get magnetic ones on the metal and magnetic ones attached with something double sided that can easily be removed without leaving a mess.

It’ll be interesting to see how things go from January 2022.


----------



## Snapster

Brockley said:


> *This is the first Angles Mort sticker I’ve seen this trip on a Belgium campervan/motorhome. None of the many queueing up for the Dublin-Cherbourg ferry had them and a lot of them were French.*
> 
> View attachment 101413
> 
> I’ve noticed an increase in the volume of campervan/motorhomes on French roads this trip. Maybe imagined but sure seems to be a lot more, perhaps like the British Isles - ramped up by ‘Costa Covid Campers’ waiting for flights to return .
> 
> For me, when the time comes I’ll get magnetic ones on the metal and magnetic ones attached with something double sided that can easily be removed without leaving a mess.
> 
> It’ll be interesting to see how things go from January 2022.


I guess they were all under 3500kg then, unless you know their weight, it’s difficult to tell if they need them displayed.


----------



## Brockley

Snapster said:


> I guess they were all under 3500kg then, unless you know their weight, it’s difficult to tell if they need them displayed.


I’d eat my jock’s if that number waiting for the ferry were all under 3500kg, I had a good look and many were much larger than ours, none of them displayed Angles Morts stickers. Most were returning Continentals. We had to up plate our van to get a reasonable payload and I suspect many really should to legally carry what they do with valid insurance.

I can only speak for Chausson, they lie like cheap Chinese watches about pay loads!

You’re quite right though, it‘s going to be a logistical nightmare to enforce and it strikes me that French motorhomers are likely to be the most resistant.

Like I said, I’ll be watching how this plays out with great interest once the period of grace runs out and that’ll be a good few months before we come back.


----------



## jacquigem

We decided to get them rather than have any agro on the road but now realise might have given game away if trying to sneak over a 3.5 ton bridge !


----------



## Snapster

We have them on ours, so we decided at the last minute against driving through the 3.5T prohibition signs in Dinan….


----------



## Brockley

Really, they ain’t bothered right now, far too many other things going on to enforce during the period of grace. Could change my mind very rapidly when the weather is anywhere near enticing next year if it means affecting our insurance.


----------



## Snapster

Brockley said:


> Really, they ain’t bothered right now, far too many other things going on to enforce during the period of grace. Could change my mind very rapidly when the weather is anywhere near enticing next year if it means affecting our insurance.


 No one is going to enforce it till it becomes mandatory next year, I have mine and that’s all I’m bothered about.


----------



## QFour

Someone came up with a really brilliant idea with the yellow stickers. If you stick one on the back or sides they know you are over 3500kg so they can pull you over if you are speeding. If they take a picture of you they will see a big yellow sign saying you are over 3500kg. If you are in the outside lane when you shouldn't be they will know your weight. If you don't bother and they pull you over they will fine you for not having them.


----------



## Canalsman

I'm going to buy a set of three.

Two magnetic for the cab doors.

The third I will stick to a piece of card and place it in the rear panel window.


----------



## Snapster

QFour said:


> Someone came up with a really brilliant idea with the yellow stickers. If you stick one on the back or sides they know you are over 3500kg so they can pull you over if you are speeding. If they take a picture of you they will see a big yellow sign saying you are over 3500kg. If you are in the outside lane when you shouldn't be they will know your weight. If you don't bother and they pull you over they will fine you for not having them.


€45-€135 fine for speeding. €135 -€750 for not displaying the stickers.


----------



## Brockley

Back through the tunnel tomorrow, had a fabulous couple of weeks in France. staying at a farm today which is 15 miles from check in. Most of our night stops have been free Aires with free services (rarer these days but we prefer minimal).

Ok, we are still in the period of grace as far as enforcing Angles Morts stickers for the As previously said, not many seen displayed on vans obviously over the 3500kg weight limit and those that have are more likely to be from other European countries.

It‘s all very well displaying these stickers, but how are they going to continue to access Aires in areas where vehicles at 3500kg’s or over are excluded? We‘ve seen more signs barring 3500kg’s and over this this trip than any of our many trips to France.

To emphasise my point this vehicle just pulled in, French registered and obviously French owners (from limited conversation). The farm was route barred from the south approach because of road works, so we had to take a fair deviation and approach from the north. The south approach had it been accessible barred 3500kg + vehicles. To get here via Wissant (the only other way in), any vehicle over 3500kg was also barred.

There must be 30 or more motorhomes here weighing 3500kg’s or more. When these stickers become compulsory are these inaccessible Aires going to revert to quiet little backwaters we all use to know and love with - 3500kg motorhomes gathering? Doubt it, it as that would need some policing.

This rule will apply to most of the approaches to Aires we have used this trip.

It‘s is going to be very interesting.


----------



## Brockley

Sorry, would have edited last post but interweb a bit sketchy here!


----------



## Brockley

Anyone guess what that rig weighed?


----------



## TeamRienza

Canalsman said:


> I'm going to buy a set of three.
> 
> Two magnetic for the cab doors.
> 
> The third I will stick to a piece of card and place it in the rear panel window.



Check out the regulations for the placing of these signs. I recall some while back seeing figures of measurement for height above ground and distance from front of van and distance from UK offside on rear of van.

Davy


----------



## Snapster

We went up to the farm too last Friday via the roadworks deviation, and I admit we are over 3500kg with the necessary stickers on. 
I also noted the approach road to the main aire at Le Crotoy has a 3500kg weight limit though we were there with many + 3500kg vans. 
Who knows what will happen. 
There are a lot of changes going on with aires this year. Many aires on the south Brittany coast now exclude overnight parking and their councils are saying they will provide alternate parking sites ( U.K. councils, you should learn that phrase) which will stop motorhomes travelling down narrow coastal roads and into villages that struggle to accommodate them.


----------



## mark61

Brockley said:


> Anyone guess what that rig weighed?


Between 7.8 tonne and 9.6 tonne?


----------



## Snapster

TeamRienza said:


> Check out the regulations for the placing of these signs. I recall some while back seeing figures of measurement for height above ground and distance from front of van and distance from UK offside on rear of van.
> 
> Davy


Sign on the rear, to the right of the centre line, between 0.9m and 1.5m from the ground. 
Signs on the sides, within I metre of the front ( or as close to that as you can get) and the same height measurements as the rear. 
Ive read a few times that people are saying they are only necessary in urban areas, but there is nothing I can find in the French regulations confirming this.


----------



## TeamRienza

Thanks for the measurements, we are on the verge of doing a short notice booking Dublin to Cherbourg and I was going to have to search out the info, so that is helpful.

Davy


----------



## QFour

Canalsman said:


> I'm going to buy a set of three.
> 
> Two magnetic for the cab doors.
> 
> The third I will stick to a piece of card and place it in the rear panel window.


Has to be in a certain location so you will have to move the window to comply.


----------



## Snapster

They aren’t enforceable till January, so don’t rush….


----------



## QFour

Snapster said:


> They aren’t enforceable till January, so don’t rush….


They will be standing in the Port waiting for you


----------



## Canalsman

QFour said:


> Has to be in a certain location so you will have to move the window to comply.


Luckily my rear window is to the right of the centre line and within those height limits ...


----------



## Canalsman

The weight limit signs and their application are oft discussed. 

My understanding is that they apply to commercial vehicles only.


----------



## Snapster

If the weight sign has an outline of a truck, it applies to lorries and delivery vans over that weight. No picture, it applies to all vehicles. Same as in the U.K.


----------



## Annsman

For anyone wondering how the French will know the weight of your van, with or without a sticker, the police in the EU still have access to the DVLA computer system to find owners and vehicle details. Plus, if they pull you over they can ask to see your V5 doc. You are supposed to have that with you too!


----------



## Snapster

Gendarmes generally are incredibly efficient  and don’t miss much. We have been stopped a few times both in the van and the car. They knew all about driving licence changes ( not required now though) and other required documents you should carry. 
Police are about the same as U.K. police = not too clever. 
Municipal police are tasked by the local councils and are more like council officials. 
They all seem to know the law pretty well though.


----------



## Brockley

Annsman said:


> For anyone wondering how the French will know the weight of your van, with or without a sticker, the police in the EU still have access to the DVLA computer system to find owners and vehicle details. Plus, if they pull you over they can ask to see your V5 doc. You are supposed to have that with you too!


What if you don’t licence through Swansea or have a V5?


----------



## Annsman

Brockley said:


> What if you don’t licence through Swansea or have a V5?


Then how are you on the road? Genuine question, I can’t think why you wouldn’t be, if you come from The UK?


----------



## Snapster

You will have a registration document of some sort and a VIN plate on the vehicle


----------



## mark61

You can have all the reg docs and VIN plates in the world, but if the EU can't or don't have access to data where your vehicle is registered, they won't be finding anything out, obviously not including if you are pulled over. But that clearly wasn't the point.

Does the EU have access to say, Isle of Man registrations? Not in UK or EU.


----------



## Annsman

mark61 said:


> You can have all the reg docs and VIN plates in the world, but if the EU can't or don't have access to data where your vehicle is registered, they won't be finding anything out, obviously not including if you are pulled over. But that clearly wasn't the point.
> 
> Does the EU have access to say, Isle of Man registrations? Not in UK or EU.


They DO have access to the data! It’s the police in each country, NOT the EU and they kept the access for cross border security issues. Presumably the IOM is included because they come under UK international treaties legislation.


----------



## Snapster

Much easier to just follow the regulations in the country you are in. 
I can imagine the uproar if people came to the U.K. and deliberately flouted the regulations there ……..


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## mark61

Annsman said:


> They DO have access to the data! It’s the police in each country, NOT the EU and they kept the access for cross border security issues. Presumably the IOM is included because they come under UK international treaties legislation.


Yes, I would imagine that is the case, but don't know for sure though. Guess we'll find out


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## Brockley

Got there in the end


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## RichardHelen262

If you are going to display them on your motorhome make sure you buy the motorhome ones and not the truck ones


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## witzend

RichardHelen262 said:


> If you are going to display them on your motorhome make sure you buy the motorhome ones and not the truck ones
> 
> View attachment 102217


When first spoken about there were only bus an truck ones avail and to be legal they had to be stamped with our CE equivelant any old vinal sticker wont do


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## RV2MAX

On the French Gov website , it specifies "Camping cars"(motorcaravans ) to use bus sticker . There are only two legal stickers  truck and bus .HTSH


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## TJBi

RV2MAX said:


> On the French Gov website , it specifies "Camping cars"(motorcaravans ) to use bus sticker . There are only two legal stickers  truck and bus .HTSH


Any chance of a link?


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## RV2MAX

TJBi said:


> Any chance of a link?


Sorry found it quite  while ago , English translation , haven't been able to find again .


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## Snapster

I have the truck stickers on mine. I haven't seen anywhere where it states which vehicle picture you need to display, so with a choice of 2 vehicles, neither of which resemble mine, I chose the truck. . The important thing is the wording.


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## RV2MAX

The important thing is the type of vehicle ,for compliance with the directive ,  Bus one represents  M type vehicles  eg passenger carrying the truck one is goods carrying vehicles category N   , this is frequently marked in V5  .


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## Snapster

RV2MAX said:


> The important thing is the type of vehicle ,for compliance with the directive ,  Bus one represents  M type vehicles  eg passenger carrying the truck one is goods carrying vehicles category N   , this is frequently marked in V5  .


Is this in the French directive?


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## witzend

TJBi said:


> Any chance of a link?








						Angles Mort stickers
					

Self adhesive 'camping car' stickers.



					forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk
				




See Derek Ozells post 26 sept


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## Snapster

I think a lot of people are getting hung up about these stickers. If your motorhome is over 3.5 tonnes max and you drive anywhere on French soil, you need to display the stickers in the places they are supposed to be ( or as close as possible) it doesn’t matter which sticker you use for a motorhome, the important thing is that you display the stickers, and although it is now mandatory, their use will not be enforced till next January. 
My stickers are official stickers and don’t have a CE mark on them. 
The local Gendarmerie confirmed that as there is no official motorhome sticker, either of the available stickers are ok to use. 
People still quote that they need to be displayed when in urban areas only but I can’t find this in any official publication ( I could have missed it) but are people really going to take them off when outside an urban area and put on when inside one, assuming they know exactly where these urban areas start and finish? 
This reluctance to display them seems to me to just be a British thing, we’ve just driven across France and saw dozens of heavy Euro motorhomes displaying them. Even a German van with the French stickers, German stickers and U.K. stickers.


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## Geek

As I understand it, the stickers have to be on both sides at the front, and on the right side at the back, even on RHD vehicles, where the blind spot is on the left, not on the right. Seems to make little sense.


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## Snapster

The blind spot is traditionally on the kerb side, in France, that’s on the right. The stickers are a warning to cyclists, they will take little notice of them anyway, and even less notice what side your steering wheel is on.
So, left or right hand drive, the placement of the stickers is uniform.


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## witzend

Snapster said:


> This reluctance to display them seems to me to just be a British thing. Even a German van with the French stickers, German stickers and U.K. stickers.


I think this is concerning more people you,d have thought that it would have been easy for this to be a EU ruling


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## Deleted member 71244

Snapster said:


> With the breathalyser, although the decree was passed into law, there was a serious supply issue of these kits and fines for non compliance were rarely given and I believe the law to carry them has been scrapped. The Angles Morts decree was passed into legislation on 1st January 2021with a 12 month period to comply. There is no shortage of stickers or supply issues so it’s very unlikely to go the same was as the breathalyser law.
> Only time will tell, but it’s rare now, in France, to see a heavy vehicle without these stickers on.
> We still carry two breathalyser kits in our vehicles. The drink drive law is much stricter in France with harsher penalties.
> We do have the Angles Morts stickers on the van too!View attachment 101180


What is the point of having a sticker on the side of the vehicle. I can see reason for it on the back.?


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## witzend

Robinhood said:


> What is the point of having a sticker on the side of the vehicle. I can see reason for it on the back.?


If Your close behind a  Large vehicle your in a blind spot to them same applies along the side


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## lefty107

I am in Nantes at the moment with the motorhome and came down a week ago all French motorhomes I have seen on the aires over the 3.5 have them and all the trucks I have seen. Only me is overweight due to French food and wine but van under so not required for me . And the temperature dropped to 25 today coldest yet.


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