# Suspension Upgrade at SAP



## Admin (Oct 24, 2017)

I am sat in the customer's lounge at SAP in Doncaster. I arrived yesterday afternoon and had a pleasant evening overnighting here with two Carthagos which are also being upgraded. Mick and his team are all very nice and nothing seems to much trouble for them.

The lounge is open 24 hours a day and has TV, drink making facilities, toilet, heating and the all important wifi. Hookups, water, bins and a courtesy car are also available for customers.

My van went under the spanner at just after 8 am and they are going to call me in to take photos at different stages of the work. As you can imagine with huge tag axle motorhomes lifted up on free-standing lifts, they don't want me in the workshop without an escort. So I will hopefully post some pictures later today.

Provided that the modifications to the water tank go smoothly, then the work should be complete tomorrow. These guys work from about 7.30am and they were just going home at 8.30pm last night. I asked Mick why he worked so many hours and he said that he loves doing it.

I now need to keep myself occupied for the day, so I shall be doing some work.

Admin


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## The laird (Oct 24, 2017)

Got yer knitting wi ye ( in over under and out) so I’m told


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## alcam (Oct 24, 2017)

Admin said:


> I am sat in the customer's lounge at SAP in Doncaster. I arrived yesterday afternoon and had a pleasant evening overnighting here with two Carthagos which are also being upgraded. Mick and his team are all very nice and nothing seems to much trouble for them.
> 
> The lounge is open 24 hours a day and has TV, drink making facilities, toilet, heating and the all important wifi. Hookups, water, bins and a courtesy car are also available for customers.
> 
> ...



Often see posts about suspension upgrade . Having no mechanical knowledge at all (I'm more your working class intellerectual type) what are the advantages (keep it simple , 2 letter words only) and what is the cost ?


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## Admin (Oct 24, 2017)

alcam said:


> Often see posts about suspension upgrade . Having no mechanical knowledge at all (I'm more your working class intellerectual type) what are the advantages (keep it simple , 2 letter words only) and what is the cost ?




*1) Better ride.* 

Air suspension gives a far superior driving experience and if you do lots of miles like me, it is a real benefit.

*2) Weight increase.*

I am having my motorhomes gross vehicle and axle weights increased. The standard suspension will not allow this, but the air suspension will.

*3) Self-levelling.*
When you are driving the suspension can automatically level the motorhome. When you park up you can push a button and the motorhome will self-level.

*4) Ride heights.*

You can choose different ride heights for the motorhome: Standard, Off road, sport or parking. The system also allows for two memory settings for your own favourite setups.

*5) Extra features.*

The system includes some extra features like ferry mode that lifts just the backend to help with grounding. The load space feature does the opposite and lowers the back of the motorhome for loading. And the tank discharge feature tips the motorhome so that you grey waste tank empties faster and completely.

The suspension system I am having fitted is expensive, it costs around £6000 depending on the vehicle. There are cheaper options but I wanted the best on the motorhome I have recently purchased.

Admin


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## molly 2 (Oct 24, 2017)

Great stuff dose it lift all 4 wheels or only the rear


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## delicagirl (Oct 24, 2017)

molly 2 said:


> Great stuff dose it *lift all 4 wheels* or only the rear



a flying camper van  -  now there's a thought !!!


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## Deleted member 5816 (Oct 24, 2017)

Hi Phil I see from your profile you are having this done to a Auto Sleepers  Duetto or am I missing something :idea:   :banana: :wacko: 

Alf



Admin said:


> *1) Better ride.*
> 
> Air suspension gives a far superior driving experience and if you do lots of miles like me, it is a real benefit.
> 
> ...


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## Admin (Oct 24, 2017)

molly 2 said:


> Great stuff dose it lift all 4 wheels or only the rear



Hi Baz,

It is a full 4 wheel system.


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## Admin (Oct 24, 2017)

Alf said:


> Hi Phil I see from your profile you are having this done to a Auto Sleepers  Duetto or am I missing something :idea:   :banana: :wacko:
> 
> Alf



Sorry Alf, I have updated my profile now.

I have a Hymer B598


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## Mick H (Oct 24, 2017)

Just curious, how much extra weight has it added, to your motorhome?


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## Wully (Oct 24, 2017)

I had them do work for me last month and must say they are one of the best companies I’ve ever dealt with the owner Mick is a true old school professional the workshop and tools are nothing but the best I got the E&P self leveling jack system fitted and it makes a big difference on uneven parking I’m going down again soon to have the semi air on Back to give a bit extra lift on one off ferry’s but my van already has the upgraded springs and with the tag axil the ride is pretty  much spot on.


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## Admin (Oct 24, 2017)

Mick H said:


> Just curious, how much extra weight has it added, to your motorhome?



It depends on the suspension your van already has. So in my case, as I have heavy leaf springs the new suspension is lighter, so it is just the weight of the compressor, air tank and pipework. I believe the worst case is 25kgs extra.


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## molly 2 (Oct 24, 2017)

Have you had the springs removed and replaced with air suspension .so no coils to brake .how much has it increased the payload.Baz


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## yeoblade (Oct 24, 2017)

Admin said:


> It depends on the suspension your van already has. So in my case, as I have heavy leaf springs the new suspension is lighter, so it is just the weight of the compressor, air tank and pipework. I believe the worst case is 25kgs extra.



That looks good, but hopefully that isn't £6K worth of work, is it? on a four wheel vehicle.


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## Fazerloz (Oct 24, 2017)

Wouldn't have thought sport mode would get much use, but you never know. It all reads like a excellent system with some very handy features.


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## Yelto (Oct 24, 2017)

I had the self leveling system fitted earlier this year, as you say Mick and his workforce are second to none.
 one of the advantages you can lift the wheels of the ground instead of using a jack, another which I have found useful is when parked up at home or in a car park as extra security I lower the legs down until they just touch the ground making it virtually impossible to move/nick. 
It is not cheap but worth every penny when wild camping and trying to level on leveling ramps with an DSG autobox in the rain on you're own is a nightmare. now I just sit there and press a button. MAGIC. 

P.S.

If you see Mick tell him this is from Rod the guy whose Ducato would not reverse of the ramp (Auto no Gear ) when the job was done. and eventually traced to the clutch actuating motor. I am sure he will remember


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## Admin (Oct 24, 2017)

molly 2 said:


> Have you had the springs removed and replaced with air suspension .so no coils to brake .how much has it increased the payload.Baz



Yes, all the springs have been removed. The front suspension legs and all the back suspension are replaced.


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## installer (Oct 24, 2017)

Admin said:


> Yes, all the springs have been removed. The front suspension legs and all the back suspension are replaced.



How will this affect the warranty?


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## trevskoda (Oct 24, 2017)

molly 2 said:


> Have you had the springs removed and replaced with air suspension .so no coils to brake .how much has it increased the payload.Baz


He has just said leaf springs and not coils,those are things ladies get fitted at the doctors.:lol-049::wave:


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## trevskoda (Oct 24, 2017)

Admin said:


> Yes, all the springs have been removed. The front suspension legs and all the back suspension are replaced.



I take it if the leaves are removed then some sort of link arms must be fitted to hold the axle to chassis pivot mounts.


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## Denfire (Oct 25, 2017)

*E & P leveling system*

Hi 'Admin'
We met yesterday at SAP and you introduced me to Wild Camping - which I have now joined... SAP are brilliant, Mick, Darren and Mike did a thorough and professional job installing the E&P leveling system to my van on Monday and Tuesday. Nothing was too much trouble - and they explained every step of the process. The E&P leveling system is well thought out and easy to use. Given my van is rated at 5 tonnes and was fitted by the maker with front springs rated for a 3.5 tonne van -, Mick advised I should upgrade the front springs as an interim - before going for the full air system at some stage next year. The drive home to Norfolk was much improved. Needless to say I will be using SAP again for future van upgrades, including the air suspension and towbar/electrics.
Denfire


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## Admin (Oct 25, 2017)

Denfire said:


> Hi 'Admin'
> We met yesterday at SAP and you introduced me to Wild Camping - which I have now joined... SAP are brilliant, Mick, Darren and Mike did a thorough and professional job installing the E&P leveling system to my van on Monday and Tuesday. Nothing was too much trouble - and they explained every step of the process. The E&P leveling system is well thought out and easy to use. Given my van is rated at 5 tonnes and was fitted by the maker with front springs rated for a 3.5 tonne van -, Mick advised I should upgrade the front springs as an interim - before going for the full air system at some stage next year. The drive home to Norfolk was much improved. Needless to say I will be using SAP again for future van upgrades, including the air suspension and towbar/electrics.
> Denfire



Hi,

It was a pleasure to chat with you yesterday, although I did not get a chance to say goodbye. I am sure that you will enjoy being part of our community, any question please ask.

Admin


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## jennyp19 (Oct 25, 2017)

One of the best companies out there -. Mick certainly goes above and beyond and bonus for us within 30 miles of home. 
The other one on a par with them is Autogas2000 from Thirsk. 
MH manufactures and dealer could do well to take notes from them. 
Nothing is too much bother from either company.


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## Admin (Oct 25, 2017)

The front suspension was fitted yesterday and the water tanks and their carrier were removed. Today the rear suspension system and new subframe are being installed, they are also finishing off the electrical installation and the control system.

I had a chat with Mick this morning and he explained that the water tanks on my Hymer are going to be the most challenging conversion that they have done.  The subframe for the rear suspension has to sit partially where the water tanks currently fit.

Some photos.


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## Fazerloz (Oct 25, 2017)

If its been altered to self levelling and adjustable to ride height what alterations do they do to the braking system if any, as far as  the rear brake load compensator valve is concerned assuming it has a mechanically actuated valve on it.


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## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2017)

Admin said:


> The front suspension was fitted yesterday and the water tanks and their carrier were removed. Today the rear suspension system and new subframe are being installed, they are also finishing off the electrical installation and the control system.
> 
> I had a chat with Mick this morning and he explained that the water tanks on my Hymer are going to be the most challenging conversion that they have done.  The subframe for the rear suspension has to sit partially where the water tanks currently fit.
> 
> ...



Looks to me you require more underseal and waxoil round that van,get it done now or else.:hammer:


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## Admin (Oct 25, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Looks to me you require more underseal and waxoil round that van,get it done now or else.:hammer:



Once all the work under the van is done I shall be looking at options to treat the current underside of the van and protect it.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Oct 25, 2017)

*Vehicle   Lifts*

Phil tell them about the Lifts can you post a Photo of them.

Alf


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## Wully (Oct 25, 2017)

I know what you’re talking about Alf  they lifts are amazing. The big blue ones


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## Admin (Oct 25, 2017)

Alf said:


> Phil tell them about the Lifts can you post a Photo of them.
> 
> Alf



At SAP they have several sets of these vehicles lifts. Each post is moved around separately and they are linked via Bluetooth. The blue ones in this photo lift vehicles up to 30,000kgs.

Whats great is that they can be used on anything from cars to HGV's. And you can position the vehicles anywhere.

They really are quite cool.


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## rugbyken (Oct 25, 2017)

all this discussion of Heidi's nether regions the poor girl will blush when she finally meets us all!


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## Wully (Oct 25, 2017)

rugbyken said:


> all this discussion of Heidi's nether regions the poor girl will blush when she finally meets us all!



I’ll Need to look at those underside photos again. How did you figure out it’s a girl


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## Buckby (Oct 25, 2017)

I have known Mick for two to three years nothing is too much trouble and his after service is excellent


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## rugbyken (Oct 25, 2017)

your a scotsman wullie  what's under your kilt? all hymer's have to have a name it's compulsory but just to let you off phil referred to her as Heidi in another post , mines Heinrick HRK on No plate


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## Admin (Oct 25, 2017)

I have just returned from an excellent dinner! 

Karen and Charlie took pity on me and drove up to Doncaster to see me, they then took me out for a steak and dropped me back.


The air suspension is now completely fitted it I just waiting for the electronics man to check the system and calibrate it.

However, the water tanks look like they are going to be a lot of hassle, I am glad that Mick is sorting it. He is now banning Hymer B598 conversions


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## Denfire (Oct 25, 2017)

*Apologies*



Admin said:


> Hi,
> 
> It was a pleasure to chat with you yesterday, although I did not get a chance to say goodbye. I am sure that you will enjoy being part of our community, any question please ask.
> 
> Admin



Yes, I did leave quite quickly once Darren had given me the full instructions and a full inspection of the system. I was keen to get on the road and get home to Norfolk. Travelling back, you had given me lots to think about with regards high energy batteries and vehicle electrical cabling/safety systems - which was all good. I do have one question, how do I get the app on to my smartphone and where would I find the activation code.... I am heading out for the first adventure next week...

Very best

Dennis


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## Wully (Oct 25, 2017)

rugbyken said:


> your a scotsman wullie  what's under your kilt? all hymer's have to have a name it's compulsory but just to let you off phil referred to her as Heidi in another post , mines Heinrick HRK on No plate



I’ll give my van a name tomorrow when it’s reborn cos according to dvla she doesn’t exist think I’ll call it Cristian as it will be reborn.


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## Admin (Oct 25, 2017)

Denfire said:


> Yes, I did leave quite quickly once Darren had given me the full instructions and a full inspection of the system. I was keen to get on the road and get home to Norfolk. Travelling back, you had given me lots to think about with regards high energy batteries and vehicle electrical cabling/safety systems - which was all good. I do have one question, how do I get the app on to my smartphone and where would I find the activation code.... I am heading out for the first adventure next week...
> 
> Very best
> 
> Dennis




It is best if I give you a link to the guide, then if you have any issues let me know.

Wild Camping APP (version 2)

Admin


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## Denfire (Oct 26, 2017)

Admin said:


> It is best if I give you a link to the guide, then if you have any issues let me know.
> 
> Wild Camping APP (version 2)
> 
> Admin



Hi Phil

Brilliant! loaded and works well. Have just ordered 2 x Honda EU20i generators plus conecting cable, 3.8kwh at full load, 1kwh at 0.25 load for 8 hrs. Ordered the motorbike ramp from the ramppeople - really excellent company - so nearly all ready to start exploring.

Again, many thanks Phil for introducing me to the Wild Camping community...

Dennis


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## Deleted member 5816 (Oct 26, 2017)

It surprised me that they don't you the vehicle body when lifting, they lift by going under the wheels and lifting that way,  .... as you say Phil pretty Cool

Alf




Admin said:


> At SAP they have several sets of these vehicles lifts. Each post is moved around separately and they are linked via Bluetooth. The blue ones in this photo lift vehicles up to 30,000kgs.
> 
> Whats great is that they can be used on anything from cars to HGV's. And you can position the vehicles anywhere.
> 
> ...


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## Admin (Oct 26, 2017)

My water tank is being a big pain in the arse. The guys at SAP have been adapting my water tank since 8am and they don't think they will be finished until sometime tomorrow. The space that tank tits into is now restricted on three sides and they are trying to model the tank to keep the maximum water capacity. This means shaping rounded sections for where the airbags intrude into the water tanks space. They must also remodel the tank housing that has an air jacket for heating the tanks.


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## Wully (Oct 26, 2017)

Admin said:


> My water tank is being a big pain in the arse. The guys at SAP have been adapting my water tank since 8am and they don't think they will be finished until sometime tomorrow. The space that tank tits into is now restricted on three sides and they are trying to model the tank to keep the maximum water capacity. This means shaping rounded sections for where the airbags intrude into the water tanks space. They must also remodel the tank housing that has an air jacket for heating the tanks.



That’s a bummer but you’re with the right people to sort .it’ll be worth it once it’s done somebody was saying yesterday that you’re vans female that explains the tits you’re tank sits on


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## Admin (Oct 26, 2017)

Looser cruiser said:


> That’s a bummer but you’re with the right people to sort .it’ll be worth it once it’s done somebody was saying yesterday that you’re vans female that explains the tits you’re tank sits on



The tank has just come back (at 18:20) from the fabricators who have welded the joints on the outside of the tank, Mick had already welded then on the inside.

It has been a good day for Wild Camping members as I think we have agreed on a 5% discount (up to £500 off). And as they install pretty much everything for motorhomes, I can see our community saving lots of money.


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## Admin (Oct 26, 2017)

They have pressure tested the tank full of water and it is perfect. Mick was just telling me that the company that welded it specialise in motorhome water tanks and make the tanks for several well known UK motorhome converters.

Mick is now trimming the tank edges to make it look pretty.


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## Admin (Oct 27, 2017)

Mick worked here until after midnight last night on the fabrication of my insulated tank cover. He was back this morning before 7am!


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## BJN (Nov 22, 2017)

*Air suspension*

Hi Phil
Can I ask how the new suspension is working out?
Is the company good to deal with as I emailed re getting a quote etc and not had a reply!
Guess I should ring them?
Regards
Bryan


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## Neckender (Nov 23, 2017)

Hi Phil, has Mick agreed to 5% off for members of wild camping as I’ve been up to SAP today 22/11/17 and put deposit on levelling system.

John.


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## The laird (Nov 23, 2017)

BJN said:


> Hi Phil
> Can I ask how the new suspension is working out?
> Is the company good to deal with as I emailed re getting a quote etc and not had a reply!
> Guess I should ring them?
> ...



Just to let you know I know that phil was happy as was wully (loosercruiser ) with work carried out .
Professional outfit from what they said .


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## Wully (Nov 23, 2017)

I had the s&p levelling system fitted by them was more than happy did a great job very professional and would not hesitate in recommending them. I’ve got van booked in  to have more work done by them.


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## Deleted member 8468 (Nov 23, 2017)

Admin said:


> They have pressure tested the tank full of water and it is perfect. Mick was just telling me that the company that welded it specialise in motorhome water tanks and make the tanks for several well known UK motorhome converters.
> 
> Mick is now trimming the tank edges to make it look pretty.



Which company modified your water tank? We have been trying to get ours enlarged, down here on the south coast. We have contacted a handful of plastic welders but no-one is interested in the job.


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## BJN (Dec 11, 2017)

The laird said:


> Just to let you know I know that phil was happy as was wully (loosercruiser ) with work carried out .
> Professional outfit from what they said .



Hi I got the impression Phil was happy with the company and their workmanship but what i was really asking is has it made a difference to the handling in corners, does it smooth out the ride and eliminate some of the rattling within etc

PS still not had a reply to my email to them but been too busy to ring, I will talk to them in the new year
Regards
Bryan


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## Admin (Dec 11, 2017)

Neckender said:


> Hi Phil, has Mick agreed to 5% off for members of wild camping as I’ve been up to SAP today 22/11/17 and put deposit on levelling system.
> 
> John.


I am waiting for a final answer.


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## Admin (Dec 11, 2017)

BJN said:


> Hi I got the impression Phil was happy with the company and their workmanship but what i was really asking is has it made a difference to the handling in corners, does it smooth out the ride and eliminate some of the rattling within etc
> 
> PS still not had a reply to my email to them but been too busy to ring, I will talk to them in the new year
> Regards
> Bryan



The ride is a lot smoother and it has reduced the rattles in the van.


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## Wully (Dec 12, 2017)

Winnebagos are ten a penny up here if you go out to site in Callander there’s about 20 of them it’s like where the Winnebagos go to die nobody can run the stupid things so they use them as static caravans guy told me they leak like hell and you canny heat them cos the insulation’s pish and the doors are easy broken into


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