# a frame towing abroard



## Compo (Apr 25, 2021)

hi now we are not part of europe can i use my a frame throughout the eu ?


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## RoaminRog (Apr 25, 2021)

I would say No.
French and Spanish authorities insist that when towing a vehicle-all four wheels must be off the ground. In other words, your towcar must be on a trailer.


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## Compo (Apr 25, 2021)

even though if its legal in host country its ok abroard ?


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## Deleted member 56601 (Apr 25, 2021)

Compo said:


> even though if its legal in host country its ok abroard ?


It’s legal to drive on the left in the UK, ..............


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## RoaminRog (Apr 25, 2021)

Compo said:


> even though if its legal in host country its ok abroard ?


No doubt greater brains than mine will be along shortly.


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## yeoblade (Apr 25, 2021)

Compo said:


> even though if its legal in host country its ok abroard ?


Is it?


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## Wully (Apr 25, 2021)

Just got my delivery of popcorn last one of these lasted 10 years.


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## Okta (Apr 25, 2021)

In the UK a car pulled by an A frame is treated as a trailer. On the continent it is *not* recognised as a trailer. Leaving the EU probably makes no difference to how it will be treated.


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## Boris7 (Apr 25, 2021)

Compo said:


> even though if its legal in host country its ok abroard ?


Not sure where that comes from?


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## Boris7 (Apr 25, 2021)

Had a conversation with a bloke yesterday, he had a MotorHome and a car on an A fame.

Asked him why, “so when I get to a camp site I have transport” he answered.

Do you always stay on sites I asked him?

”yes” he said.

Ever heard of a caravan I asked?

Just an idea to make this issue simple.


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## Compo (Apr 25, 2021)

ie if your car is legal in the uk its automatically legal over there as far as im aware


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## Deleted member 56601 (Apr 25, 2021)

Compo said:


> ie if your car is legal in the uk its automatically legal over there as far as im aware


Towing an a frame is a driving manoeuvre, not a vehicle classification


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## shortcircuit (Apr 25, 2021)

When abroad you have to comply with all the laws of the host country.  Does not matter what you do in your own country, if it does not comply with the host countries laws, then absolutely no argument, can't happen.  Would you like to see the Germans doing 90mph on our motorways, do outdo the boy racers, just because they can in their own country?


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## Okta (Apr 25, 2021)

Compo said:


> ie if your car is legal in the uk its automatically legal over there as far as im aware


Towing a trailer is legal in the UK and in Europe. We treat a car on an A frame as a trailer, they do not. It is our DfT that interprets an A frame towed car as a trailer, our DfT interpretation applies in the UK not in the EU.


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## Compo (Apr 26, 2021)

just a thought what if i take my front wheels of my smart car as the engine is in the rear is this then a trailer ie 2 wheels ?


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## GMJ (Apr 26, 2021)

Okta said:


> In the UK a car pulled by an A frame is treated as a trailer. On the continent it is *not* recognised as a trailer. Leaving the EU probably makes no difference to how it will be treated.



This is my understanding as well.

I think it goes along the lines of: A Frames are allowed in France, Spain etc but only as a temporary means for moving a vehicle that has broken down. The ban on general use was brought in a couple of years ago and is being enforced as far as I can tell/what I have seen and heard.

We drive down to Spain each January and when it came in, there was a noticeable big reduction in the amount of 'toads' that we saw. I'm talking from double figures down to maybe seeing one or two maximum, in 2 months.

A Frames are allowed in the UK as a general means of transporting a toad. This is a useful starting point to do some research






						A-frames
					






					www.gov.uk
				




This article makes some sense of it...









						What's the law on towing with an A-frame? | Carbuyer
					

Everything you need to know about towing a car with an A-frame




					www.carbuyer.co.uk
				




We looked into whether it was worth it for us however we decided against because: we have ebikes; can book sites near bus stops; can rent a car for a few days here and there when we are abroad if required; and some pitches abroad are so small we wouldn't be able to have the car on them as well. Also our MH is already 8.8m long so having a toad makes it huge plus I have read that reversing is a PITA with them.


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## Okta (Apr 26, 2021)

GMJ said:


> This is my understanding as well.
> 
> I think it goes along the lines of: A Frames are allowed in France, Spain etc but only as a temporary means for moving a vehicle that has broken down. The ban on general use was brought in a couple of years ago and is being enforced as far as I can tell/what I have seen and heard.
> 
> ...


The Government advice is useful and is what I have based my decisions on. It includes advice that their interpretation is not shared by Europe.

The second article by Carbuyer muddles up two alternative breakaway systems and makes them sound like one system. Better to follow the official DfT advice than the journalists muddled thinking.


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## r4dent (Apr 26, 2021)

Saw a Dutch guy stopped by the Police in Spain for using an A frame.  
They made him leave the car at the side of the road and gave him an fine.

All the "experts" who quote the law on this site will need excellent Spanish to argue the point with a cop at the side of the road.


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## kenspain (Apr 26, 2021)

My son said before if they see you towing an A frame the can fine you up to 2 hundred euros and make you remove the car from the A frame


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## RV2MAX (Apr 26, 2021)

Not allowable in EU , mostly due to trailers being separately registered as a trailer , and needing compliance to be so registered , which is not the case in UK .  
   One vehicle cannot be registered as two different classifications eg  motorised vehicles M and N  and trailers O    In UK  laws to say something is illegal  EU mostly laws say something is legal . (rough explanation)


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## colinm (Apr 26, 2021)

The government agency in UK has decided that we can use A frames as trailers, if you look at the latest UN trailer laws this is a grey area as to if they comply, so some other countries ban them.


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## GMJ (Apr 26, 2021)

colinm said:


> The government agency in UK has decided that we can use A frames as trailers, if you look at the latest UN trailer laws this is a grey area as to if they comply, so some other countries ban them.



The UN?

Do they set laws on these kind of things??


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## colinm (Apr 26, 2021)

GMJ said:


> The UN?
> 
> Do they set laws on these kind of things??


Yes they set vehicle and trailer regs worldwide, then countries or blocks can tweak the regs to suit.


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## Okta (Apr 26, 2021)

colinm said:


> Yes they set vehicle and trailer regs worldwide, then countries or blocks can tweak the regs to suit.


Not come across this, can you post a link to the UN regs please?


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## mistericeman (Apr 26, 2021)

Okta said:


> Not come across this, can you post a link to the UN regs please?



Which bit? 

There are Mountains of it covering all angles of vehicular regulation... 

Google 'United nations trailer regulations' for specific parts...


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## colinm (Apr 27, 2021)

Thanks for posting, I'm on limited data and speed again today.
Here's my view, not everyone agrees with this.
A modern trailer requires a CoC, or IVA, A frame makers will give you bit of paper for the A frame, car manufacturers will give you a CoC for car, I've never heard of any one having a CoC which covers A framed trailer as a unit, I've also never heard of anyone getting a IVA, so whilst it's fine for .gov agency to say you can use it in UK, that doesn't cover you for travel in a country that doesn't allow that exemption.


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