# Looking for a dead quiet place to stop?



## Canalsman

National Cemetery Map
		


This may help. In addition of course you may well find there's a tap ...


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## Robmac

I'm afraid I don't agree with parking at cemeteries or using their taps, I find it disrespectful.


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## mariesnowgoose

I disagree.


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## mark61

Handy resource for those that don't find it disrespectful.


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## mistericeman

Personally not something I'd do ....

No problems with cemeteries/church yards (I love to wander around churches etc too )
BUT just don't think it's very considerate  to folks visiting for other reasons ...
Let alone how it looks in general .

As for water taps ....
OK I suppose if permission is sought and granted and a donation offered


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## 1 Cup

Its all in the council tax ! Use them or lose them. Spains  stared to removing old cemetery.  Like digging them up that disrespectful. 

Me and the wife was parked up and a ghost just came straight in van . Didn't evan knock.


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## spigot

mariesnowgoose said:


> I disagree.



Me too.

I believe it's OK to fill a bottle or container.

I definitely would not take the van in & get the hose out!


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## barryd

You should see the outrage on the NC500 whingers FB group if any van that looks remotely like a motorhome goes within a mile of any of their cemeteries. I read they lynched a Tesco delivery driver in one of those luton Tesco vans.


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## Wooie1958

We have friends that live on the NC500 and i don`t blame them, it`s been horrendous.


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## barryd

Wooie1958 said:


> We have friends that live on the NC500 and i don`t blame them, it`s been horrendous.



So I gather but they don't want aires or facilities it seems. They just want everyone herded onto campsites and I don't think there are enough anyway.  Unfortunately we are only as good as our lowest common denominator and there are some right idiots with motorhomes now.  I do have sympathy but they wont listen to seasoned motorhomers.  I would avoid the place like the plague anyway. Im not that keen on that part of Scotland anyway.


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## Canalsman

I offer it so individuals can follow their conscience.

Regarding using the tap to draw water, in my view access to drinking water is a basic human right. In some European countries a tap has to be provided in a town for use by the public.

Unfortunately in the UK there is quite literally nowhere to access water by right. A cemetery, or public toilet, are as close as you can get. For those on the road the choices are extremely limited.


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## mistericeman

Canalsman said:


> I offer it so individuals can follow their conscience.
> 
> Regarding using the tap to draw water, in my view access to drinking water is a basic human right. In some European countries a tap has to be provided in a town for use by the public.
> 
> Unfortunately in the UK there is quite literally nowhere to access water by right. A cemetery, or public toilet, are as close as you can get. For those on the road the choices are extremely limited.


AND if its YOUR tap .....I'd defend your right to offer anyone you see fit a fill up .....

However I see someone helping thereself  to someone elses services ,including water without permission as rude,ignorant,entitled and frankly little short of theft .


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## mariesnowgoose

As a mildly humorous aside, here's the American etiquette for cemetery attendees (published by a funeral home in Illinois)

*Things not to do in a cemetery*

Don't walk on top of graves.
Don't sit or lean on headstones and other memorials.
Don't leave food on the headstones.
Don't make out.
Don't take photos without permission.
Don't blow horn in the cemetery.


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## Canalsman

mariesnowgoose said:


> As a mildly humorous aside, here's the American etiquette for cemetery attendees (published by a funeral home in Illinois)
> 
> *Things not to do in a cemetery*
> 
> Don't walk on top of graves.
> Don't sit or lean on headstones and other memorials.
> Don't leave food on the headstones.
> Don't make out.
> Don't take photos without permission.
> Don't blow horn in the cemetery.


Four and six may be interconnected!


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## alcam

Canalsman said:


> Four and six may be interconnected!


What COULD you mean ?


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## Boris7

I would find it disrespectful to park up in a cemetery, buy our local one has a lay-by with trees in front and bins etc see no reason not to stay the night there as long as your gone early as it’s used by mourners in the day time.


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## Fisherman

No matter what your opinion on this, one thing that stands out from these posts is the consideration given by us.
When you consider what is published in some newspapers possibly they should take a look in here.
Personally speaking I am with Rob and mriceman, and others, it looks bad a big white van parked in a cemetery car park.

But that’s just how I feel, I am not criticising anyone.


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## Robmac

Boris7 said:


> I would find it disrespectful to park up in a cemetery, buy our local one has a lay-by with trees in front and bins etc see no reason not to stay the night there as long as your gone early as it’s used by mourners in the day time.



When my son died I was there every single night for the best part of a year Kev. You would be surprised how many people go down there at night. His mates often came and sat with me as well, sometimes into the early hours.

The most respectful people at our local cemetery are the gypsies. If they spotted anybody using it as a leisure facility they would soon be 'moved on'.


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## Robmac

I've posted about this before. At our local cemetery a large American motorhome was filling up with water for about 20 minutes whilst people were queuing to fill watering cans to tend their relatives graves.

Ok that's an unusual event and extremely arrogant. But sometimes this forum astounds me, we bleat on about the minority spoiling it for the majority and next thing I read about suggesting parking in cemeteries, getting dodgy radar keys. emptying cassettes in supermarkets or at British Waterways disposal points etc. etc.

Perhaps it's not such a minority!


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## Fisherman

Robmac said:


> I've posted about this before. At our local cemetery a large American motorhome was filling up with water for about 20 minutes whilst people were queuing to fill watering cans to tend their relatives graves.
> 
> Ok that's an unusual event and extremely arrogant. But sometimes this forum astounds me, we bleat on about the minority spoiling it for the majority and next thing I read about suggesting parking in cemeteries, getting dodgy radar keys. emptying cassettes in supermarkets or at British Waterways disposal points etc. etc.
> 
> Perhaps it's not such a minority!


Sadly Rob, some seem to think it’s ok to empty their cassettes into WCs that are not designed for such a purpose. When we come back from some trips I use our downstairs toilet. Before doing so I cover the floor with newspaper. I try not to cause to much splashing but some invariably lands outwith the WC basin. I then remove all of the newspaper and my wife then carefully  cleans the WC, the lid, and the lower tiled walls in the toilet. This takes her around ten minutes to do. I have seen campers entering and leaving a toilet with their cassettes in less than a minute. Even when signs are erected asking us not to do this.
When I plan a trip I always make sure that after three days I have access to an elsan point.


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## Robmac

Fisherman said:


> Sadly Rob, some seem to think it’s ok to empty their cassettes into WCs that are not designed for such a purpose. When we come back from some trips I use our downstairs toilet. Before doing so I cover the floor with newspaper. I try not to cause to much splashing but some invariably lands outwith the WC basin. I then remove all of the newspaper and my wife then carefully  cleans the WC, the lid, and the lower tiled walls in the toilet. This takes her around ten minutes to do. I have seen campers entering and leaving a toilet with their cassettes in less than a minute. Even when signs are erected asking us not to do this.
> When I plan a trip I always make sure that after three days I have access to an elsan point.



At a Wildcamping meet once Bill, one of our members (Disabled with Lupus) soiled himself outside a disabled toilet whilst another member with a Radar key obtained from ebay was emptying his cassette inside.

I've had many arguments on subjects such as this over the years but I can't see such behaviour ending anytime soon.


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## Fisherman

Robmac said:


> At a Wildcamping meet once Bill, one of our members (Disabled with Lupus) soiled himself outside a disabled toilet whilst another member with a Radar key obtained from ebay was emptying his cassette inside.
> 
> I've had many arguments on subjects such as this over the years but I can't see such behaviour ending anytime soon.


Why not simply make sure you get access to an elsan point. It makes no sense to me. Many more are being put in every week in the U.K. surely it’s not difficult, or am I just being naive here.


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## mark61

Well I imagined parked up quietly and discreetly for a night, but things have been taken to another level to include things that I wouldn’t expect people to do no matter where they are parked up.
Tar people with the same brush if you want, I’m not going to. Theres been complete removal of all nuance here.


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## Robmac

mark61 said:


> Well I imagined parked up quietly and discreetly for a night, but things have been taken to another level to include things that I wouldn’t expect people to do no matter where they are parked up.
> Tar people with the same brush if you want, I’m not going to. Theres been complete removal of all nuance here.



I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush Mark, simply stating the behaviour of some who would claim to be responsible wild campers, and that includes the use of cemeteries suggested by this thread.

Ask the general non-motorhoming public what they would think of the idea, I think they would be horrified. I know I am and I wildcamp.


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## Fisherman

mark61 said:


> Well I imagined parked up quietly and discreetly for a night, but things have been taken to another level to include things that I wouldn’t expect people to do no matter where they are parked up.
> Tar people with the same brush if you want, I’m not going to. Theres been complete removal of all nuance here.


Sorry Mark but I constantly refer to a minority on here.
As I said in my initial post 17, I am not critical of anyone who does park outside a cemetery, I just don’t think it looks good.
Also I honestly believe that most of us avoid emptying cassettes into toilets that are then used by the public. If I am wrong, then so be it, but I was not attempting  to tar everyone with the same brush, as a matter of fact I was trying to do the exact opposite.


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## mistericeman

mark61 said:


> Well I imagined parked up quietly and discreetly for a night, but things have been taken to another level to include things that I wouldn’t expect people to do no matter where they are parked up.
> Tar people with the same brush if you want, I’m not going to. Theres been complete removal of all nuance here.


I think it's perfectly possible to park up "Quietly and discretely" in lots of locations...
Lots of us do it on a regular basis ....

I would argue though that some places are of a sensitive nature ESPECIALLY to folks outside our chosen pastime .

And I personally think that cemetery car parks are one of those spots ...

OK probably not everyone is going to be bothered or concerned BUT ,
How about to a family that has recently had a loved one interred there and is visiting for the first time ...

Rocks up and finds someone parked up in a motorhome/Campervan  ...at best sat there minding their own business ...
At worst with tables and chairs out etc 
Either way I really don't feel personally that it either paints us in a good light OR is a particularly sensitive action to carry out ....
Add in folks thinking it fine to help themselves to a water supply that isn't there for the use of motorhomes/campers but is there for use by folks attending graves ...and it just leaves a nasty taste in MY mouth .


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## mark61

Robmac said:


> I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush Mark, simply stating the behaviour of some who would claim to be responsible wild campers, and that includes the use of cemeteries suggested by this thread.
> 
> Ask the general non-motorhoming public what they would think of the idea, I think they would be horrified. I know I am and I wildcamp.


Depends exactly what you ask them. My scenario of quietly parked up,(along the lines of the thread title) where you'd hardly be noticed, doubt they'd have a problem.

Your scenario, then of course they'd have a problem. But they'd have a problem with that behaviour anywhere, as would I and I'm sure most here would .


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## Robmac

mistericeman said:


> I think it's perfectly possible to park up "Quietly and discretely" in lots of locations...
> Lots of us do it on a regular basis ....
> 
> I would argue though that some places are of a sensitive nature ESPECIALLY to folks outside our chosen pastime .
> 
> And I personally think that cemetery car parks are one of those spots ...
> 
> OK probably not everyone is going to be bothered or concerned BUT ,
> How about to a family that has recently had a loved one interred there and is visiting for the first time ...
> 
> Rocks up and finds someone parked up in a motorhome/Campervan  ...at best sat there minding their own business ...
> At worst with tables and chairs out etc
> Either way I really don't feel personally that it either paints us in a good light OR is a particularly sensitive action to carry out ....
> Add in folks thinking it fine to help themselves to a water supply that isn't there for the use of motorhomes/campers but is there for use by folks attending graves ...and it just leaves a nasty taste in MY mouth .



People visiting cemeteries after a recent bereavement can be extremely emotionally charged, I know I was and can be upset by the slightest thing. I personally kicked out a bunch of youths who were behaving in a rowdy manner, in other situations I would have just ignored them.

But to people in this frame of mind, anything that seems disrespectful can cause very unexpected results. Believe me.


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## Robmac

mark61 said:


> Depends exactly what you ask them. My scenario of quietly parked up,(along the lines of the thread title) where you'd hardly be noticed, doubt they'd have a problem.
> 
> Your scenario, then of course they'd have a problem. But they'd have a problem with that behaviour anywhere, as would I and I'm sure most here would .



I'm not sure what you think my scenario was Mark?

I object to parking overnight at cemeteries and taking water.


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## mistericeman

Robmac said:


> People visiting cemeteries after a recent bereavement can be extremely emotionally charged, I know I was and can be upset by the slightest thing. I personally kicked out a bunch of youths who were behaving in a rowdy manner, in other situations I would have just ignored them.
> 
> But to people in this frame of mind, anything that seems disrespectful can cause very unexpected results. Believe me.


I agree wholeheartedly ....
As I say I'm happy to wander around churches/churchyards etc ...
(we take it in turns as we've usually got the dogs with us ,and I don't feel it's appropriate to take the dogs into grave yards even though theyre well behaved (mostly)
So I'm definitely not parking a hoofing great motorhome overnight in the carpark ...no matter how discretely I park .
But then I wouldn't steal water from one either .


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## trevskoda

I once passed a cemetery at night and saw a ghost, he saw me
But I was not sure who was scared the most.


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## mark61

Robmac said:


> I'm not sure what you think my scenario was Mark?
> 
> I object to parking overnight at cemeteries and taking water.



Well you gave the example of a MH taking ages to fill up with water, so that scenario.

Anyway, I understand you object to it, regardless of taking water or not, and that's fair enough. I don't.

Now there's two of you assuming everyone steals water.


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## Robmac

mark61 said:


> Well you gave the example of a MH taking ages to fill up with water, so that scenario.
> 
> Anyway, I understand you object to it, regardless of taking water or not, and that's fair enough. I don't.
> 
> Now there's two of you assuming everyone steals water.



Oh come on Mark, I related one incident that happened at our local cemetery and I did say "Ok that's an unusual event and extremely arrogant" and I said I object to taking water as suggested in the OP. Nowhere did I say everyone steals water?


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## Boris7

Robmac said:


> When my son died I was there every single night for the best part of a year Kev. You would be surprised how many people go down there at night. His mates often came and sat with me as well, sometimes into the early hours.
> 
> The most respectful people at our local cemetery are the gypsies. If they spotted anybody using it as a leisure facility they would soon be 'moved on'.


Rob, my deepest respect and regrets, I’ve never met my son (long story) but even so there’s always been a place in my heart for him, I can’t begin to understand how painful loosing a child would be.


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## mistericeman

mark61 said:


> Well you gave the example of a MH taking ages to fill up with water, so that scenario.
> 
> Anyway, I understand you object to it, regardless of taking water or not, and that's fair enough. I don't.
> 
> Now there's two of you assuming everyone steals water.


I didn't say 'Everyone' steals water ....

BUT I've personally witnessed (and had words )on more than 2 occasions motorhomes/camper vans taking water from sources they had no express permission to do so (by their own admission ....and the attitude of its not locked so its fair game )

That (along with parking in sensitive locations like grave yard car parks )
Is not on ...is not the sort of behaviour that shows what we do in a good light AND in the case of water is frankly stealing IMHO .


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## n brown

i slept in many cemeteries and graveyards when i was younger,and saw them as sanctuaries . very rarely saw another human after dark , but saw every kind of wild animal that was around . lovely peaceful places ,and all the people buried there always gave me a feeling of comfort and safety ,and i often lay there in my sleeping bag  listening to all the little furries scuttling about ,and trading hoots with resident owls , once was woken up by a fox sniffing my face- he had the same colour hair as me . they are proper nature reserves .


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## Robmac

n brown said:


> i slept in many cemeteries and graveyards when i was younger,and saw them as sanctuaries . very rarely saw another human after dark , but saw every kind of wild animal that was around . lovely peaceful places ,and all the people buried there always gave me a feeling of comfort and safety ,and i often lay there in my sleeping bag  listening to all the little furries scuttling about ,and trading hoots with resident owls , once was woken up by a fox sniffing my face- he had the same colour hair as me . they are proper nature reserves .



We did have a local smack head sleeping rough at our local cemetery. He was evicted by the gypsies and persuaded that it would not be in his best interests to return anytime soon.

Foxes are often there at night though, and Muntjac.


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## maingate

I have taken water from a Cemetery probably 3 times in all the years with a motorhome. The most I took was 20 litres and only because I had no other alternative. I see Robs point about relatives being sensitive but apart from them, who the hell is going to get angry about someone using the tap to fill a container. It just goes to show how narrow minded British people can be. As said earlier, access to water is a basic human right.

There is a POI in Southern Scotland at an Abbey with a Cemetery attached which has been well used for many years and I have never heard of any complaints. Part of the car park adjoins the Cemetery entrance but motorhomes tend to park at the far end and it is a bit more discreet. I have used the tap there but we arrived there as a final stop on the way home and I filled an empty bottle so we could have a cup of tea. Later that evening when it was quiet I took 20 litres, just enough to last us until we got home the next day.

People need to take a chill pill.


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## barryd

n brown said:


> *i slept in many cemeteries and graveyards when i was younger*,and saw them as sanctuaries . very rarely saw another human after dark , but saw every kind of wild animal that was around . lovely peaceful places ,and all the people buried there always gave me a feeling of comfort and safety ,and i often lay there in my sleeping bag  listening to all the little furries scuttling about ,and trading hoots with resident owls , once was woken up by a fox sniffing my face- he had the same colour hair as me . they are proper nature reserves .



Your just feckin weird! I thought I was the oddball on here but I think you beat me!   

Ive only slept in a bush shelter under a stolen pub parasol and in a JCB bucket.  Feckin lightweight.


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## barryd

maingate said:


> I have taken water from a Cemetery probably 3 times in all the years with a motorhome. The most I took was 20 litres and only because I had no other alternative. I see Robs point about relatives being sensitive but apart from them, who the hell is going to get angry about someone using the tap to fill a container. It just goes to show how narrow minded British people can be. As said earlier, access to water is a basic human right.
> 
> There is a POI in Southern Scotland at an Abbey with a Cemetery attached which has been well used for many years and I have never heard of any complaints. Part of the car park adjoins the Cemetery entrance but motorhomes tend to park at the far end and it is a bit more discreet. I have used the tap there but we arrived there as a final stop on the way home and I filled an empty bottle so we could have a cup of tea. Later that evening when it was quiet I took 20 litres, just enough to last us until we got home the next day.
> 
> People need to take a chill pill.



That sounds fine to me, done the same. I often in Europe or the UK go on a water run.  I love it as its like a hunter gatherer thing and it makes me feel all proud to bring the little lady back some lovely water so I can grunt at her and she looks all pleased.   I can carry 40 litres on the bike and cemeteries as long as they are quiet are not off limits.  Ive mainly done this in Europe but occasionally in the UK. Nobody seems to care when you turn up on a little bike though.


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## Robmac

maingate said:


> I see Robs point about relatives being sensitive but apart from them, who the hell is going to get angry about someone using the tap to fill a container.



Thing is Jim, everybody has relatives in a cemetery. But filling a container is different, I even do it myself usually a watering can but not always so I doubt that anybody would suspect anything different if somebody was filling a bottle or whatever, they would probably think you were visiting a relative.

But I do get angry about it, (the suggestion of overnighting especially). We paid thousands of pounds to have a nice area to visit him and I like the solitude of night time visits.

I shouldn't really worry though as the lane by the cemetery car park is the route from the town pubs back to the gypsy site so anybody parking there overnight would be risking life and limb and motorhome!


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## n brown

barryd said:


> Your just feckin weird! I thought I was the oddball on here but I think you beat me!
> 
> Ive only slept in a bush shelter under a stolen pub parasol and in a JCB bucket.  Feckin lightweight.


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## Caz

I think it very much depends on which graveyard - there are some where I would be happy to stop but others where I wouldn't think it appropriate. As for water - most of the time I'm only filling a couple of 2 litre containers so I don't see a problem with that. One friend always carried a 5 litre container with "dog" written on it and they would sometimes, if desperate, knock on any door and ask if they could fill it. They were never refused.


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## trevskoda

Caz said:


> I think it very much depends on which graveyard - there are some where I would be happy to stop but others where I wouldn't think it appropriate. As for water - most of the time I'm only filling a couple of 2 litre containers so I don't see a problem with that. One friend always carried a 5 litre container with "dog" written on it and they would sometimes, if desperate, knock on any door and ask if they could fill it. They were never refused.


How do you get a dog in a container.


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## Pudsey Bear

Liz and I like to wander around ancient cemeteries if it's easy to park, we find ones with new burials a bit upsetting if children, but the history is fascinating for both of us, we did stay in a carpark of one years ago as we were struggling to find a place to rest   and we have filled the tank from a couple, I don't see any problem with that a tap is a tap, and is fed by the general water mains unless posted otherwise, we are greatly respectful and don't walk over the graves or interfere in any way.


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## Wooie1958

barryd said:


> So I gather but they don't want aires or facilities it seems. They just want everyone herded onto campsites and I don't think there are enough anyway.  Unfortunately we are only as good as our lowest common denominator and there are some right idiots with motorhomes now.  I do have sympathy but they wont listen to seasoned motorhomers.  I would avoid the place like the plague anyway. Im not that keen on that part of Scotland anyway.



They live on a quite remote part of the route with a reasonable sized plot of land and fantastic views which to anyone with even a modicum of common sense and decency is clearly private given the condition they keep it in and have even put Private Property signs up but it didn`t make any difference.

They had motorhomers and in particular the rental brigade parking up on their land and several of them even left their cassette contents and rubbish behind.

All it took was one to park then others joined and at one point they had 15 parked up. he went out and explained it was private property and they just told him to fcuk off because in Scotland you can park up where ever you want and any signs are illegal, he called the Police.

The Police came and they even argued back with them, reinforcements arrived it took a while and they all reluctanatly left. the next morning 4 of them had come back and parked up again overnight, they recognised them because they taken photographs and noted the registrations.

They have now erected fencing which they really, really did not want to do because it spoils the views but that was the only way to stop them using their land.

Me and the wife loved Scotland and went every year but now will not go back for the foreseeable future.


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## caledonia

Lots of nice cemetery car parks in Scotland. Usually beside lovely beaches on the west coast and Islands. We like to be buried in with a nice view up here. Stayed in lots of them back in the glory days. One of the best beaches in the world has a lovely cemetery car park with tap. Had a few lovely nights there (Luskintyre) with no issues. 
It all boils down to common sense which seems to be scarce nowadays but don’t have a problem if it’s a remote cemetery and arrive late and leave early especially on a Sunday.


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## Fisherman

caledonia said:


> Lots of nice cemetery car parks in Scotland. Usually beside lovely beaches on the west coast and Islands. We like to be buried in with a nice view up here. Stayed in lots of them back in the glory days. One of the best beaches in the world has a lovely cemetery car park with tap. Had a few lovely nights there (Luskintyre) with no issues.
> It all boils down to common sense which seems to be scarce nowadays but don’t have a problem if it’s a remote cemetery and arrive late and leave early especially on a Sunday.


I think that just about how I see this. When we go to Morvich theres a strip of land adjacent to the cemetery car park. We have spent a few nights there before heading into the C&M site there. The path to the top of Sgur an Airgid is close by, one of our favourite hills with stunning views over to Skye to the north, and Loch Duich below. But if anyone ever complained or asked me to move I would do so. It’s a large strip of land and there has never been an issue of over use when we were there. I do however think it’s important that we are sensitive to relatives needs in these circumstances.


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## caledonia

Wooie1958 said:


> They live on a quite remote part of the route with a reasonable sized plot of land and fantastic views which to anyone with even a modicum of common sense and decency is clearly private given the condition they keep it in and have even put Private Property signs up but it didn`t make any difference.
> 
> They had motorhomers and in particular the rental brigade parking up on their land and several of them even left their cassette contents and rubbish behind.
> 
> All it took was one to park then others joined and at one point they had 15 parked up. he went out and explained it was private property and they just told him to fcuk off because in Scotland you can park up where ever you want and any signs are illegal, he called the Police.
> 
> The Police came and they even argued back with them, reinforcements arrived it took a while and they all reluctanatly left. the next morning 4 of them had come back and parked up again overnight, they recognised them because they taken photographs and noted the registrations.
> 
> They have now erected fencing which they really, really did not want to do because it spoils the views but that was the only way to stop them using their land.
> 
> Me and the wife loved Scotland and went every year but now will not go back for the foreseeable future.


I’ve often chapped the door and asked a crofter/ farmer if it’s ok to park up for the night and most locals would be ok with it but not the wealthy chap who had retired to the highlands from his well paid job in England (not being anti  English in the slightest) would refuse. White settlers there called in the highlands a most of the time they are the one’s complaining and locals are glad of the trade and business opportunities tourists provide. The they parked on their land bit gets me they parked inside their boundary sound better as it’s not their land its Scotland🫶


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## Fisherman

caledonia said:


> I’ve often chapped the door and asked a crofter/ farmer if it’s ok to park up for the night and most locals would be ok with it but not the wealthy chap who had retired to the highlands from his well paid job in England (not being anti  English in the slightest) would refuse. White settlers there called in the highlands a most of the time they are the one’s complaining and locals are glad of the trade and business opportunities tourists provide. The they parked on their land bit gets me they parked inside their boundary sound better as it’s not their land its Scotland🫶


Look at Skye and the building of the bridge, who opposed it and who was in favour. The “I bought my house on an island I want it to remain an island “ brigade created serious issues up there. No thought whatsoever for the problems of the working population living there. Some folk living on these islands and remote parts of Scotland have to realise, they may be retired, but without youngsters remaining and working there there would be no community for them to live in.


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## campervanannie

1 Cup said:


> Its all in the council tax ! Use them or lose them. Spains  stared to removing old cemetery.  Like digging them up that disrespectful.
> 
> Me and the wife was parked up and a ghost just came straight in van . Didn't evan knock.


I personally would not use a cemetery tap but I also think they should all be dug up and burials made illegal all bodies should be cremated and the land put to better use.


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## Pudsey Bear

Liz asked me a good while ago if I wanted to be burned or buried, I said dunno, I'll make my mind up on the day.


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## campervanannie

Fisherman said:


> Sadly Rob, some seem to think it’s ok to empty their cassettes into WCs that are not designed for such a purpose. When we come back from some trips I use our downstairs toilet. Before doing so I cover the floor with newspaper. I try not to cause to much splashing but some invariably lands outwith the WC basin. I then remove all of the newspaper and my wife then carefully  cleans the WC, the lid, and the lower tiled walls in the toilet. This takes her around ten minutes to do. I have seen campers entering and leaving a toilet with their cassettes in less than a minute. Even when signs are erected asking us not to do this.
> When I plan a trip I always make sure that after three days I have access to an elsan point.



Whilst I agree about never useing public toilets and I don’t ever use them for emptying my cassette I feel you need lessons on emptying I use my toilet at home and have never had to go to the lengths of covering floors and the like there is no splash back when I empty mine your clearly doing it wrong, yes it’s a bit smelly but no mess.


----------



## Wooie1958

caledonia said:


> I’ve often chapped the door and asked a crofter/ farmer if it’s ok to park up for the night and most locals would be ok with it but not the wealthy chap who had retired to the highlands from his well paid job in England (not being anti  English in the slightest) would refuse. White settlers there called in the highlands a most of the time they are the one’s complaining and locals are glad of the trade and business opportunities tourists provide. The they parked on their land bit gets me they parked inside their boundary sound better as it’s not their land its Scotland🫶


Ok, i agree the " their land " was the wrong term to use but that`s what us Ingerlanders use when describing it   

Our friends where born and bred in Scotland, he even used to have ginger hair although it`s now white so that proves he`s Scottish      

They were both very lucky to retire early and invested in a place up there that they spent years doing up so they could spend a very long lazy and idylic retirement in the peace and quiet they loved.

We always popped into see them and would spend a few days there with our motorhome parked around the back of their house out of sight and would go out in their car with them.

They are now considering selling up because his health has deteriorated ( 2 heart attacks ) due to the worry and stress that this situation has caused.


----------



## Fisherman

campervanannie said:


> Whilst I agree about never useing public toilets and I don’t ever use them for emptying my cassette I feel you need lessons on emptying I use my toilet at home and have never had to go to the lengths of covering floors and the like there is no splash back when I empty mine your clearly doing it wrong, yes it’s a bit smelly but no mess.


That all depends on the size and shape of your WC Annie. Modern WCs are smaller and shaped differently from some older models. I have on most occasions managed to empty the cassette with no mess *that I can see.*
But my wife prefers to take no chances when it comes to hygiene.
And in my home she decides on such things, I just do what I am told


----------



## campervanannie

Fisherman said:


> That all depends on the size and shape of your WC Annie. Modern WCs are smaller and shaped differently from some older models. I have on occasion managed to empty the cassette with no mess *that I can see.*
> But my wife prefers to take no chances when it comes to hygiene.


Are you saying I have an old toilet how very dare you.  my brother recently cut an inspection trap in our outside down pipe we now just unscrew it with an Allen key and empty the cassette into that.


----------



## Pudsey Bear

I agree they whiff a bit but pouring into an ordinary loo shouldn't be a drama, a bit of control of the angle of tipping and not pressing the yellow button right in gives a fairly smooth flow, having said that no solids in ours so no splashing as they hit the loo water.


----------



## Pudsey Bear

campervanannie said:


> Are you saying I have an old toilet how very dare you.  my brother recently cut an inspection trap in our outside down pipe we now just unscrew it with an Allen key and empty the cassette into that.


Can you post a picture of that, I like the idea of it for at home disposal.


----------



## Fisherman

campervanannie said:


> Are you saying I have an old toilet how very dare you.  my brother recently cut an inspection trap in our outside down pipe we now just unscrew it with an Allen key and empty the cassette into that.


Absolutely, time you fitted a newer model Annie 

Downpipes are for rainwater only Annie. You would require access to your sewerage drain instead. I take it you meant your sewerage drain.

Also some rainwater drains are narrow you could create blockages using it for sewerage.


----------



## Pudsey Bear

Our toilet has an outside pipe that goes up to the roofline outside the house, I was considering putting a connector into it and then a screw lid onto that.


----------



## caledonia

Wooie1958 said:


> Ok, i agree the " their land " was the wrong term to use but that`s what us Ingerlanders use when describing it
> 
> Our friends where born and bred in Scotland, he even used to have ginger hair although it`s now white so that proves he`s Scottish
> 
> They were both very lucky to retire early and invested in a place up there that they spent years doing up so they could spend a very long lazy and idylic retirement in the peace and quiet they loved.
> 
> We always popped into see them and would spend a few days there with our motorhome parked around the back of their house out of sight and would go out in their car with them.
> 
> They are now considering selling up because his health has deteriorated ( 2 heart attacks ) due to the worry and stress that this situation has caused.


Very sorry to hear this but the flip side is we have friends who live in Rosehall and the community has encouraged visitors and motorhomes. They recently created a network of forest trails at Rosehall and motorhome parking at the Falls of Shin.


----------



## Wooie1958

Maybe Annie should have used the term *soilpipe* which is probably what she meant.


----------



## mark61

Fisherman said:


> Absolutely, time you fitted a newer model Annie
> 
> Downpipes are for rainwater only Annie. You would require access to your sewerage drain instead. I take it you meant your sewerage drain.
> 
> Also some rainwater drains are narrow you could create blockages using it for sewerage.


 Loads of places have mixed sewers.


----------



## Pudsey Bear

caledonia said:


> Very sorry to hear this but the flip side is we have friends who live in Rosehall and the community has encouraged visitors and motorhomes. They recently created a network of forest trails at Rosehall and motorhome parking at the Falls of Shin.


We stayed there not long ago.









						Google Maps
					

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




					www.google.com


----------



## Wooie1958

caledonia said:


> Very sorry to hear this but the flip side is we have friends who live in Rosehall and the community has encouraged visitors and motorhomes. They recently created a network of forest trails at Rosehall and motorhome parking at the Falls of Shin.



Many years back we spent a very quiet and peaceful night being the only ones there at the Falls of Shins whilst it was still in ruins after the big fire they had     

I don`t know what it`s like now


----------



## Fisherman

mark61 said:


> Loads of places have mixed sewers.


Never heard of that mark, that’s my learning for the day, thanks


----------



## Fisherman

Pudsey Bear said:


> Our toilet has an outside pipe that goes up to the roofline outside the house, I was considering putting a connector into it and then a screw lid onto that.


That sounds like a rain water drain PB. If it is then it’s only for rainwater. As I said in an earlier post they can be narrow and could lead to blockages. But Mark informs me of mixed sewage systems, I would check out your possibilities. If the pipe terminates in an open end, it’s you stench pipe. Although our stench pipe goes into your loft and is vented through a roof vent.


----------



## Fisherman

Wooie1958 said:


> Maybe Annie should have used the term *soilpipe* which is probably what she meant.


Possibly Graham, I just thought it was worth pointing out, better safe than sorry.


----------



## Nabsim

I have noticed over the last few months of late summer/early Autumn that some churches have started offering motorhome and car parking. This may have been going on a long time and I hadn’t noticed, I usually stay out in the sticks but, if they let you park during the day what is the difference overnight?
I am not keen on horror films, too scarey for me so unlikely I would be wanting to stove in a graveyard. I did think the original post was meant in a light hearted way as well.
Water in this country is a disgrace, it should be accessible to everyone, the only time we are short is through years of mismanagement and bad planning/lack of investment. How does anyone think a homeless person is supposed to get a drink, clean themselves etc never mind folks with vans. A bit off track I know but if access was available elsewhere I am sure graveyards wouldn’t be an issue anyway


----------



## Wooie1958

Fisherman said:


> That sounds like a rain water drain PB. If it is then it’s only for rainwater. As I said in an earlier post they can be narrow and could lead to blockages. But Mark informs me of mixed sewage systems, I would check out your possibilities. If the pipe terminates in an open end, it’s you stench pipe. Although our stench pipe goes into your loft and is vented through a roof vent.



Our soil / stench pipe goes up the back of the house through the soffit boards, through the roof and extends approx 2ft higher than the roof tiles with a mesh on top, it does not enter the loft at all.


----------



## mark61

Fisherman said:


> Never heard of that mark, that’s my learning for the day, thanks



Very few places built before the 1950's will have separate drains, and probably none before the 30/40's.
Even say as late as the early 00's only about half the houses in UK would have separate rain/sewer drains. 

But as you say, if you have both, they should not be mixed.


----------



## campervanannie

Fisherman said:


> Absolutely, time you fitted a newer model Annie
> 
> Downpipes are for rainwater only Annie. You would require access to your sewerage drain instead. I take it you meant your sewerage drain.
> 
> Also some rainwater drains are narrow you could create blockages using it for sewerage.


Sorry yes it is my sewage down pipe


----------



## campervanannie

Pudsey Bear said:


> Can you post a picture of that, I like the idea of it for at home disposal.


See photo


----------



## campervanannie

Fisherman said:


> Absolutely, time you fitted a newer model Annie
> 
> Downpipes are for rainwater only Annie. You would require access to your sewerage drain instead. I take it you meant your sewerage drain.
> 
> Also some rainwater drains are narrow you could create blockages using it for sewerage.


It’s the bog pipe


----------



## trevskoda

Sewage and roof drain pipes all go into one here, as for the cassette, no bother emptying it down my workshop loo, I use bio tabs and nothing left only non stinky brown water.


----------



## Pudsey Bear

Some people do go on


----------



## trevskoda

Pudsey Bear said:


> Some people do go on


I go on mine all the time, LOL.


----------



## barryd

caledonia said:


> I’ve often chapped the door and asked a crofter/ farmer if it’s ok to park up for the night and most locals would be ok with it but not the wealthy chap who had retired to the highlands from his well paid job in England (not being anti  English in the slightest) would refuse. White settlers there called in the highlands a most of the time they are the one’s complaining and locals are glad of the trade and business opportunities tourists provide. The they parked on their land bit gets me they parked inside their boundary sound better as it’s not their land its Scotland🫶



This remind me of when we visited Mull about 15 years ago.  Someone told me it was 65% English there. Don't know if its true but every hotelier and eatery we used was run by an English person. Not exactly friendly either.

Last couple of years when we have been visiting Scotland and Arran I kept thinking of going back to Mull with the van but decided against it when I heard all the wilding spots had gone and CalMac have a notice on their booking site that you have to have a site booked (although I dont think its enforceable).  My immediate thoughts were this is the doing of the English Colonel Blimps on the Island. We never went back though.  I also got the impression on the NC500 FB group that this may well be the case there but it does seem that in many cases their anti motorhome stance is sadly justified.


----------



## Fisherman

barryd said:


> This remind me of when we visited Mull about 15 years ago.  Someone told me it was 65% English there. Don't know if its true but every hotelier and eatery we used was run by an English person. Not exactly friendly either.
> 
> Last couple of years when we have been visiting Scotland and Arran I kept thinking of going back to Mull with the van but decided against it when I heard all the wilding spots had gone and CalMac have a notice on their booking site that you have to have a site booked (although I dont think its enforceable).  My immediate thoughts were this is the doing of the English Colonel Blimps on the Island. We never went back though.  I also got the impression on the NC500 FB group that this may well be the case there but it does seem that in many cases their anti motorhome stance is sadly justified.


Spot on Barry. We were regulars to Mull before we got our first van in 2016. We stayed in a cottage in Killiechronnan over looking Loch Na Keel.

But after our return with our first motorhome, we decided never again.
It really gets my blood boiling, we are talking about a very large Island, with loads of places for us to stay, yet we are not made welcome by a few.
Arran is different, yes there are a few numpties there, but generally speaking I don't feel unwelcome there.
The Arraners have a more pragmatic approach, supplying Elsan points and fresh water.
Even taking over the toilets closed by the council.
Also many don't know this, but there are around 100 motorhome and camper van owners on Arran, and some of them are involved in local politics.


----------



## barryd

Fisherman said:


> Spot on Barry. We were regulars to Mull before we got our first van in 2016. We stayed in a cottage in Killiechronnan over looking Loch Na Keel.
> 
> But after our return with our first motorhome, we decided never again.
> It really gets my blood boiling, we are talking about a very large Island, with loads of places for us to stay, yet we are not made welcome by a few.
> Arran is different, yes there are a few numpties there, but generally speaking I don't feel unwelcome there.
> The Arraners have a more pragmatic approach, supplying Elsan points and fresh water.
> Even taking over the toilets closed by the council.
> Also many don't know this, but there are around 100 motorhome and camper van owners on Arran, and some of them are involved in local politics.



Its a while since I have been to the other Scottish islands and maybe things have changed but they were always very welcoming.  I can remember on North Uist years ago on a boys trip (Tent and a VW Camper) us turfing up at some pub and the bored locals wouldn't let us leave.  Most of those islands we just used to ask the locals where to pitch up and they were really helpful and friendly about it. Maybe its changed now. I think we did 18 islands including Orkney (twice) and the Shetlands. Hardly ever used sites.


----------



## jagmanx

mariesnowgoose said:


> As a mildly humorous aside, here's the American etiquette for cemetery attendees (published by a funeral home in Illinois)
> 
> *Things not to do in a cemetery*
> 
> Don't walk on top of graves.
> Don't sit or lean on headstones and other memorials.
> Don't leave food on the headstones.
> Don't make out.
> Don't take photos without permission.
> Don't blow horn in the cemetery.


Don't kill or bury anyone !
Don't use a rotavator !
Don't take flowers for your GF !
Don't give Burke and Hare a lift !


----------



## izwozral

Stayed in a church carpark not far from Hereford, can't remember the name unfortunately. Carpark and church were separated by an orchard, any misgivings we felt were soon gone when a group arrived for dog obedience training. We can only assume they were locals.
After they left we came across 3 piles of dog poo. It was the people who needed training and not the dogs I guess.
Izzy is a regular church goer and has gifted thousands of pounds over the years. We have not taken any church water but wouldn't feel bad about it if we had to.
Don't remember ever sleeping in a cemetry and doubtful ever will, particularly now that Rob has made some valid points regarding other people's sensitivity.


----------



## trevskoda

Water is not owned by anyone here as its cost is within the rates we all pay, and no Irish person would stop at night near a graveyard for sure, you just never know.


----------



## Robmac

trevskoda said:


> Water is not owned by anyone here as its cost is within the rates we all pay, and no Irish person would stop at night near a graveyard for sure, you just never know.View attachment 115095



I think it's the means of getting the water which is owned Trev, like taps, standpipes and the ground where they are situated.


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## trevskoda

Robmac said:


> I think it's the means of getting the water which is owned Trev, like taps, standpipes and the ground where they are situated.


Still all free here Rob if outside, if inside you must ask but something which is never a problem here.


----------



## Robmac

trevskoda said:


> Still all free here Rob if outside, if inside you must ask but something which is never a problem here.



Does that mean you can wander into somebody's garden and use their outside tap without asking Trev?


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## trevskoda

Robmac said:


> Does that mean you can wander into somebody's garden and use their outside tap without asking Trev?


No but if one is outside a church yard wall or anywhere there is no bother, inside a private house boundary is a no no unless you ask.
Mind you Rob street taps are now becoming a thing of the past over here, there were lots when i was young, and even cowtail pumps.


----------



## Robmac

trevskoda said:


> No but if one is outside a church yard wall or anywhere there is no bother, inside a private house boundary is a no no unless you ask.
> Mind you Rob street taps are now becoming a thing of the past over here, there were lots when i was young, and even cowtail pumps.



Some villages have them here still Trev, but getting rarer.


----------



## spigot

campervanannie said:


> Whilst I agree about never useing public toilets and I don’t ever use them for emptying my cassette I feel you need lessons on emptying I use my toilet at home and have never had to go to the lengths of covering floors and the like there is no splash back when I empty mine your clearly doing it wrong, yes it’s a bit smelly but no mess.



I find if you flush the toilet at the same time you tip the cassette, there will be no splashback.


----------



## Pudsey Bear

Best to do that anyway to start getting rid of it all.


----------



## TJBi

A dead quiet spot in France where the authorities specifically authorise motorhome parking:








						Google Maps
					

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.




					goo.gl


----------



## trevskoda

spigot said:


> I find if you flush the toilet at the same time you tip the cassette, there will be no splashback.


Flush toilet, posh g-t.


----------



## trevskoda

You should just turf it over a ditch, remember you are depriving thousands of flys a fresh meal.


----------



## Pudsey Bear

Ugh!! too much splashback on the wall for me.


----------



## alcam

Never parked up in a cemetery or taken water . Robmac's post certainly means I won't be doing it .
I do have a RADAR key . Not disabled but take 10 pills a day, 7 of which 'may cause diarrhoea' . MAY my arse .
Have , occasionally , emptied in public toilets . I see nothing wrong with it as long as you leave the place clean and , most important , aren't seen by the public.


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## trevskoda

alcam said:


> Never parked up in a cemetery or taken water . Robmac's post certainly means I won't be doing it .
> I do have a RADAR key . Not disabled but take 10 pills a day, 7 of which 'may cause diarrhoea' . MAY my arse .
> Have , occasionally , emptied in public toilets . I see nothing wrong with it as long as you leave the place clean and , most important , aren't seen by the public.


Some of the folk using public loos leave a bigger mess than and camper would, talk about taking salts, must be fecken summersaults.


----------



## zzr1400tim

I have just "stumbled" on this thread (as I rarely leave the bikers forum.)
I just can't understand why anyone would want to camp at a cemetery?
Totally Astonishing!
I agree with Rob. Its disrespectful. Not only to the departed souls but also their visiting loved ones too 
and, as for debating the whys and wherefores about emptying loos and filling up with water???
I despair. Back off to the biker's forum now, where much more important things are discussed.
see ya


----------



## alcam

zzr1400tim said:


> I have just "stumbled" on this thread (as I rarely leave the bikers forum.)
> I just can't understand why anyone would want to camp at a cemetery?
> Totally Astonishing!
> I agree with Rob. Its disrespectful. Not only to the departed souls but also their visiting loved ones too


I agree with the above .
Not being disrespectful but another consideration is that cemeteries are not usually near the pub !


----------



## Pudsey Bear

alcam said:


> Never parked up in a cemetery or taken water . Robmac's post certainly means I won't be doing it .
> I do have a RADAR key . Not disabled but take 10 pills a day, 7 of which 'may cause diarrhoea' . MAY my arse .
> Have , occasionally , emptied in public toilets . I see nothing wrong with it as long as you leave the place clean and , most important , aren't seen by the public.


If that is true then you are disabled, you should apply for one, but you might have to ladle it on a bit as they seem to think if you are  breathing then you can manage.


----------



## mistericeman

alcam said:


> I agree with the above .
> Not being disrespectful but another consideration is that cemeteries are not usually near the pub !


There is that ....

To be honest I've wandered around many many cemeteries in different places many of which have been in stunning locations ...
The only thing that would stop me parking in one of those locations is respect for the families/visitors of people buried there etc ....
I really wouldn't want to be the source of someone's upset from myself using the carpark as a 'campsite'


----------



## barryd

I Dont think Ive parked outside a cemetery although I did once park on an Aire outside one in some backwater in central Brittany.  I dont think the residents objected.


----------



## caledonia

zzr1400tim said:


> I have just "stumbled" on this thread (as I rarely leave the bikers forum.)
> I just can't understand why anyone would want to camp at a cemetery?
> Totally Astonishing!
> I agree with Rob. Its disrespectful. Not only to the departed souls but also their visiting loved ones too
> and, as for debating the whys and wherefores about emptying loos and filling up with water???
> I despair. Back off to the biker's forum now, where much more important things are discussed.
> see ya


So you go to the Outer Hebrides. Drive along to the most beautiful beach you’ve ever seen and park in the carpark which is next to the cemetery. Would you stay the night?
Shaigra on the NW coast is a lovely place to stop and the honesty box is on the cemetery wall.


----------



## TeamRienza

The cemetery at Sarlat La Caneda has one Aire beside it and another across the road from the entrance.


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## izwozral

Interesting thread this.
It has made me think about something we say and do and it seems we are not alone.
Iz and I love a good cemetery, the ones in London are stunning, so we often walk around them and admire the sculpted angels, the artwork on the gravestones and read the epitaphs.
Question: is it imposing (figuratively speaking) on peoples grief that we, and others, see cemeteries as a form of architectural or sculptural art and the emotional epitaphs a story to be read when we have no link to the grief therein?
Is this a moral dilemma or am I just over thinking this?

Particularly interested in Robs response, that is if you don't mind Rob.


----------



## mariesnowgoose

There's a fabulous old cemetery in Jesmond, Newcastle, somewhat similar to Highgate?, although obviously not quite as big.

Some very interesting folk buried there, and, once wandering around inside, doesn't feel as though you are in the centre of a city at all. Lots of mature trees and wildlife. Quite a lovely place really.


----------



## Robmac

izwozral said:


> Interesting thread this.
> It has made me think about something we say and do and it seems we are not alone.
> Iz and I love a good cemetery, the ones in London are stunning, so we often walk around them and admire the sculpted angels, the artwork on the gravestones and read the epitaphs.
> Question: is it imposing (figuratively speaking) on peoples grief that we, and others, see cemeteries as a form of architectural or sculptural art and the emotional epitaphs a story to be read when we have no link to the grief therein?
> Is this a moral dilemma or am I just over thinking this?
> 
> Particularly interested in Robs response, that is if you don't mind Rob.



Not at all Ral.

Cemeteries are fascinating places. Julie and I often have a walk around when we visit Andrew's grave, we often see names which we recognise and we have got to know many of the visitors over the last 16 years, Christmas day will be a special day down there, everybody comes over to shake your hand or give you a hug or if they don't really know you then a respectful bow of the head, It means a lot.

Like @mistericeman I like to visit cemeteries and churches and like yourself I love the architectural and sculptural features and the history. A few years back Julie and I took a relative from NZ up to Thirsk in search of Julie's families graves and we found her great grandfathers headstone. Whilst we were there an old chap came over and asked if we knew the family and it turned out that as a lad he knew her great grandfather. Her cousin from NZ almost burst into tears.

In my opinion, cemeteries are lovely places to visit but people shouldn't outstay their welcome.


----------



## alcam

Pudsey Bear said:


> If that is true then you are disabled, you should apply for one, but you might have to ladle it on a bit as they seem to think if you are  breathing then you can manage.


I just bought one . Argos I think .


----------



## myvanwy

Watched the vlog by Liam and Janette (those happy days) yesterday. They wilded in London and visited a cemetery where Peter Pan and Captain Hook are buried side by side.


----------



## mariesnowgoose

myvanwy said:


> Watched the vlog by Liam and Janette (those happy days) yesterday. They wilded in London and visited a cemetery where Peter Pan and Captain Hook are buried side by side.



We must watch the same vlogs!


----------



## mark61

myvanwy said:


> Watched the vlog by Liam and Janette (those happy days) yesterday. They wilded in London and visited a cemetery where Peter Pan and Captain Hook are buried side by side.


Thats a great spot where they stopped. Theres always at least 10 vans parked up on the main road at the end of the road they parked on. Some look like they've been there for months, many months. Theres even 2 towing caravans parked up. It's about the only place I can think of for miles where there are no parking restrictions at all, which is very strange. Only about a 10/15 minute walk to Highgate tube, probably 35/40 min to Hampstead station.

I'm pretty sure Dracula ain't buried in Highgate cemetery though, I think they are getting Dracula and Karl Marx mixed up, easy done I guess.   
My grand parents are in there though.


----------



## myvanwy

I must apologize. Got Janines' name wrong.


----------



## myvanwy

Feeling the hug Marie.


----------



## maingate

mark61 said:


> Thats a great spot where they stopped. Theres always at least 10 vans parked up on the main road at the end of the road they parked on. Some look like they've been there for months, many months. Theres even 2 towing caravans parked up. It's about the only place I can think of for miles where there are no parking restrictions at all, which is very strange. Only about a 10/15 minute walk to Highgate tube, probably 35/40 min to Hampstead station.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Dracula ain't buried in Highgate cemetery though, I think they are getting Dracula and Karl Marx mixed up, easy done I guess.
> My grand parents are in there though.


Are you inferring that Dracula and Karl Marx are your Grandparents?


----------



## martinmartin

It's well documented that graveyards leech into the watercourses,so think on before topping up.


----------



## trevskoda

martinmartin said:


> It's well documented that graveyards leech into the watercourses,so think on before topping up.


----------

