# Efoy fuelcell



## Wully (Jan 18, 2018)

Fitted my efoy 140 fuelcell today took about 1 hour to completely install. I’m even more impressed when I heard it running or dident hear it. For me it was a hard decision because of initial set up cost and listening to everyone saying how good solar was well it’s pitch black outside and this things still charging my batteries at a cost I know but the piece of mind it’s giving me is great a constant 24 hour energy without sun or a noisy and polluting generator I’ll keep youse posted on running costs over time.


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## colinm (Jan 18, 2018)

I think for this time of year it's a very elegant solution, but too kin expensive for us to contemplate as we don't often use van this time of year.


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## st3v3 (Jan 18, 2018)

Loads of money, but I like it


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## Wully (Jan 18, 2018)

st3v3 said:


> Loads of money, but I like it



I know what you mean stevie but I  bit the bullet said when I bought van ide do something every year to upgrade it well this things put a big hole in that plan. But I’m chuffed to bits how it works and I’m a numpty at electrical stuff and I fitted it myself in no time so if I can do it so could a monkey


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## Canalsman (Jan 18, 2018)

I'll be very interested in how you get on.

I have been contemplating fitting such an unit myself.


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## Wully (Jan 18, 2018)

runnach said:


> I look forward to viewing and discussing this new technology, Wully.



You just want a swig o ma methanol


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## Fazerloz (Jan 18, 2018)

If only I had room.


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## Silver sprinter (Jan 18, 2018)

Every days a school day, all new for me,  went off to find more info, keep the info coming, a lot of money:, but my only concern will be Annie, she might fancy a change from vodka, and it doesn't look a big enough container,  thanks for sharing


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## The laird (Jan 18, 2018)

Personally I prefer my charge system,sorry to upset you but that is mince compared to 
I’ve a bike it’s rear is off the ground and is on a frame there’s a fairy hefty dynamo and when I need to charge the battery up or put the three bars on the fire with the coffee machine on “”””””””””I get the Mrs to cycle like sh- -e also saves money on the slim fast gear 
Yeah b4 you say I know what’s going on in yer heads but I’m pleasantly plump and staying that way


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## Wully (Jan 18, 2018)

Silver sprinter said:


> Every days a school day, all new for me,  went off to find more info, keep the info coming, a lot of money:, but my only concern will be Annie, she might fancy a change from vodka, and it doesn't look a big enough container,  thanks for sharing



Think I got a good deal £3550 with two m10 fuel cartridges and the Bluetooth dongle still expensive but about £500 less than I was originally quoted


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## phillybarbour (Jan 18, 2018)

Love the principle, not the price.


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## trevskoda (Jan 18, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> You just want a swig o ma methanol



If thats methanol,dont smoke or flick switches on off,it burns with a clear flame with a faster flash than old petrol,we used to run a 350 jap grass tracker on the stuff 12% power boost.:scared:


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## Herman (Jan 18, 2018)

Jesus, it would be cheaper to drive to Spain to charge the batteries with your solar panel every time it goes flat.


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## saxonborg (Jan 18, 2018)

Like your desire for new technology, apart from the cost looks like a great unit.


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## yorkslass (Jan 18, 2018)

Came across it a few years ago, and something I'd love to have. The only downside is the cost I'm afraid.


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## jagmanx (Jan 19, 2018)

*Yes Excellent for the winter*

If you use MoHo a great deal in the winter obviously the best solution 
Yes expensive but not too much as a proportion of the MoHo initial cost.

I have looked but not for us as We only use MoHo in the summer, albeit for the full 5 or 6 months.
So solar does us fine and the outlay too much for limited advantage.

Winter is different and I would splashout if it could be fitted OK
Much better than a Genny


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## oldish hippy (Jan 19, 2018)

well if ichange van then might look at a lithuim battery or just take a picture and stick it to side of normall battery


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## Clunegapyears (Jan 19, 2018)

Please do review it.  We are contemplating a genny.  Gulp!  Moving very little and a lot of cloud and rain, and that is in Greece!  Had to resort to a campsite to fully charge batteries last night &#55357;&#56852;. 

How much does it weigh?  How Much methanol are you getting through?  Amp limits? Etc

Thanks
K


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## jagmanx (Jan 19, 2018)

*LPG on board Generator*

I have found this

Telair TG480 - Automatic LPG Generator 12v 20A - Products

For me it is better
1 Onboard - *underneath* so not compromising space in storage areas (a big plus for us)
2 Uses existing LPG - I have 2 x 11kg tanks
3 No need for 3 fuel Diesel LPG and Fuel Cell only Diesel and LPG
4 How available are the EFOY fuel units
Also LPG fairly Eco-friendly

Similar overall price  Worth it if you need it
Given that your battery will never drop too low it has other advantages in that
1 Only 1 LB is needed
2 It should "last forever"
3 Once my LB is full charging goes to EB so no need for the various jump-starter units.

As I put in a previous post we only use MoHo in summer so solar and driving keep both my batteries in a good state
In one sense it is a shame that I do not really need it...but who knows ahead
Now where is that lottery ticket ?


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## peter palance (Jan 19, 2018)

*is*



Looser cruiser said:


> You just want a swig o ma methanol



is that an evil spirit or just judy in the sky too 2 loo .pj


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## Wully (Jan 19, 2018)

Clunegapyears said:


> Please do review it.  We are contemplating a genny.  Gulp!  Moving very little and a lot of cloud and rain, and that is in Greece!  Had to resort to a campsite to fully charge batteries last night ��.
> 
> How much does it weigh?  How Much methanol are you getting through?  Amp limits? Etc
> 
> ...


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## colinm (Jan 19, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> think this is a good option because you can let it work 24 hours it turns itself on using a sensor do determine how low battery is. And practically silent with no fumes.im running a few tests with van to see it’s streanths and weakness’s,



It strikes me that will need some intervention as you learn what it does, cutting in to top up in evening if needed is good, but if it decides to fire up early morning before solar can pick up, or if you are soon to drive off, not so good.


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## jagmanx (Jan 19, 2018)

*I tend to agree*



hairydog said:


> I looked at the Ifoy. Good idea, but a bit expensive. But what killed it for me is the fuel cost and availability.
> If I am to pay that much for a device, I'd need to use it a fair bit. But the cost of the fuel rules that out.
> There is a firm making gas-powered fuel cells, which can run on LPG. The problem is that they are making domestic units at present, not suitable for a motorhome. Perhaps they will branch out?



Telair TG480 - Automatic LPG Generator 12v 20A - Products
You might find this of interest
Chainsaw Charlie posted another link which appears cheaper but (I think) It does not include all the necessary parts.
Then there is fitting.. again my link looks better !


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## Wully (Jan 19, 2018)

I had a dometic lpg generator fitted to my last van worked well when I needed it and ran of same gas tank that done heating and cooking. Even had its own exhaust system but you had to time when you used it so as not to upset people and it was still noisy then there’s the vibration and you couldent just leave it running 24 7 So I’ve realy had both and I’ve done my homework it’s early days yet but looks like this ticks all the boxes for my needs I know the fuel is expensive but it’s only running when you’re batteries drop below a certain level charges then automatically turns itself off so used correctly shouldend be too bad I’ve been talking to somebody who’s had one for over a year now and he’s only used just over a half of a container of fuel that equates to around £30 to £40


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## jagmanx (Jan 19, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> I had a dometic lpg generator fitted to my last van worked well when I needed it and ran of same gas tank that done heating and cooking. Even had its own exhaust system but you had to time when you used it so as not to upset people and it was still noisy then there’s the vibration and you couldent just leave it running 24 7 So I’ve realy had both and I’ve done my homework it’s early days yet but looks like this ticks all the boxes for my needs I know the fuel is expensive but it’s only running when you’re batteries drop below a certain level charges then automatically turns itself off so used correctly shouldend be too bad I’ve been talking to somebody who’s had one for over a year now and he’s only used just over a half of a container of fuel that equates to around £30 to £40



Thanks
That does allay fears about cost ! and Fuel availability
Simple question is how long does a
EFOY Fuel Cell Methanol M10 (Box of 2)
£96.00 inc. VAT last 
Your post suggest maybe 2 years
In our case maybe longer as
1 We only use MoHo in summer
2 We have solar and 1 85AH battery which has never gone below 12.5
WE are very frugal almost ridiculously so with using or LB !


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## Wully (Jan 19, 2018)

Im just going what I’ve been told not my own experience but I’ll keep an eye on it there’s a  handy app that comes with it so you can run and change settings via Bluetooth on you’re phone lets you know what power you’re generating and how much fuel being consumed over a period of time you can monitor you’re battery from phone and start stop as required.


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## ChrisInNotts (Jan 19, 2018)

jagmanx said:


> Thanks
> That does allay fears about cost ! and Fuel availability
> Simple question is how long does a
> EFOY Fuel Cell Methanol M10 (Box of 2)
> ...



If it were me I would be looking to see if it is possible to re-fill their fuel cartridges   Pure methanol is available on ebay for £27 for 20L so I wonder why the cartridge is so dear?  I may be because methanol is pretty toxic and there may also be duty implications?

Keith


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## jagmanx (Jan 19, 2018)

*Thanks WUSSY*



Looser cruiser said:


> Im just going what I’ve been told not my own experience but I’ll keep an eye on it there’s a  handy app that comes with it so you can run and change settings via Bluetooth on you’re phone lets you know what power you’re generating and how much fuel being consumed over a period of time you can monitor you’re battery from phone and start stop as required.



I think, as I posted before, My main problem will be where to fit the item and the Fuel supply unit.
But if this can be resolved given your very helpful info It may well be a good investment for us
I have reviewed my assessment of the "3 fuels issue"
As I have posted we do not use MoHo in winter so fuel costs and more importantly availability should be OK.
As it is we rarely use campsites and even then do not pay extra for EHU so say £15 a night x150 (summer travelling days) nearly pays for it in one year !
We rarely pay £15 a night but I think that is a useful value.
This is an over-optimistic payback scenario but 5 years will do !
As you post/infer the real plus is reliable power irrespective of the weather and of course if the weather is bad you need power and solar is less effective.
Given you "full-time" (I think) it is a "No Brainer" and the fuel cost simply won't really matter.
I may well buy in April but your continued feed back (I hope) will inform me and others.

A very useful and helpful thread


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## saxonborg (Jan 19, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> I had a dometic lpg generator fitted to my last van worked well when I needed it and ran of same gas tank that done heating and cooking. Even had its own exhaust system but you had to time when you used it so as not to upset people and it was still noisy then there’s the vibration and you couldent just leave it running 24 7 So I’ve realy had both and I’ve done my homework it’s early days yet but looks like this ticks all the boxes for my needs I know the fuel is expensive but it’s only running when you’re batteries drop below a certain level charges then automatically turns itself off so used correctly shouldend be too bad I’ve been talking to somebody who’s had one for over a year now and he’s only used just over a half of a container of fuel that equates to around £30 to £40



And on the basis that you shouldn’t really ever need a hook up you would easily save that money back.


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## mistericeman (Jan 19, 2018)

ChrisInNotts said:


> If it were me I would be looking to see if it is possible to re-fill their fuel cartridges   Pure methanol is available on ebay for £27 for 20L so I wonder why the cartridge is so dear?  I may be because methanol is pretty toxic and there may also be duty implications?
> 
> Keith



I suspect it's possibly more complicated than just topping the methanol up.... 

Shame as the last lot I picked up (mid last year) was less than £80 for 204 litres of top grade M1 Stuff..... 




Goes in this.... 10.5 litre supercharged monster


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## st3v3 (Jan 19, 2018)

mistericeman said:


> I suspect it's possibly more complicated than just topping the methanol up....
> 
> Shame as the last lot I picked up (mid last year) was less than £80 for 204 litres of top grade M1 Stuff.....
> 
> ...



I want a go! Swap for a go in my escort cosworth  *




* When I eventually get around to changing the gearbox lol.

Where do you go with it?


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## mistericeman (Jan 19, 2018)

st3v3 said:


> I want a go! Swap for a go in my escort cosworth  *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not mine (far too expensive toy for me) 

It's a mate of mines.... Runs 7 seconds over 1/4 mile at santa pod etc. 

This was a year or two back when he was running 8's without methanol but a big hit of nitrous instead [video=youtube_share;Gk5d5MWsFwI]https://youtu.be/Gk5d5MWsFwI[/video]


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## st3v3 (Jan 19, 2018)

Nice. Pod is great, but I prefer shakey - have you heard if it's going to be open again? They were talking of building houses on it. Shame.


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## mistericeman (Jan 19, 2018)

st3v3 said:


> Nice. Pod is great, but I prefer shakey - have you heard if it's going to be open again? They were talking of building houses on it. Shame.



Yup he races at Shakey and York.... 

Think it's all still looking decidedly grim at moment BUT who knows in fullness of time.


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## Canalsman (Jan 21, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> View attachment 60632Fitted my efoy 140 fuelcell today took about 1 hour to completely install. I’m even more impressed when I heard it running or dident hear it. For me it was a hard decision because of initial set up cost and listening to everyone saying how good solar was well it’s pitch black outside and this things still charging my batteries at a cost I know but the piece of mind it’s giving me is great a constant 24 hour energy without sun or a noisy and polluting generator I’ll keep youse posted on running costs over time. View attachment 60627View attachment 60628



Where did you install the unit? 

How did you route the flue?

And where did you locate the control panel?


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## Wully (Jan 21, 2018)

Hi Chris I installed it in a cupboard under main bed as near to garage and batteries as I could get I’ve atached a couple of photos and a link the vent only lets a little bit of hot air so left it in garage area as you can see from video they actually vent this inside habitation area the main one to vent is the small grey pipe which vents through floor. You’ll see a small thing sitting on top of efoy that’s a Bluetooth dongle it states a range of ten meters but I can control it from house about 15 meters away using app on my iPhone 
YouTube


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## Wully (Jan 21, 2018)

I’ve been running it in driveway for a couple of days now putting lights on tv and sat for a few hours at a time even ran fridge from batteries for a while to see how it coped just so that I know it’s streanths and weakness’s so far  I’m impressed I’ve had it running under pressure and think it’ll do the job that I need it to do. The app lets you know fuel usage charge going in and condition of batteries.


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## Canalsman (Jan 21, 2018)

Looks neat ...

I think I may well install one of these on my return to the UK in May. I have a suitable location in mind.

I note that Roadpro sell them quite a bit cheaper than Fuel Cell Systems.

There were a couple of questions over refilling and system life.

Refilling will invalidate warranty and any impurities introduced may affect the fuel cell.

Anticipated life is at least 5,000 hours with no reduction in performance.


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## Wully (Jan 21, 2018)

Chris road pros price £3775 plus £104 for fuel and it looks like they charge £99 for heat duct and £25 for exhaust flu pipe. Making it £4013. I managed to get a discount from fuelcells direct by telling them I found one on eBay from Poland at £3350 and asked them to Mach price and they did so I realy done my homework before buying the price I paid was £3450 with two m10 tanks of fuel the Bluetooth dongle was £100 total £3550 installed myself so I recon I saved £500 on the best price by anyone hope you understand my figures cheers wully


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## Canalsman (Jan 21, 2018)

Don't worry. I'll shop around!


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## Wully (Jan 21, 2018)

runnach said:


> You forgot to add the corporate logo, Wully. :tongue:



Looks good terry you think like me. I’ve attached a wee bottle to the vent pipe with tape pure 100 distilled water got to be good for somthing although I’m not one for contaminating my whiskey with water they guys took 12 years to get it perfect slanj


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## MOJO (Jan 21, 2018)

*Battery type*

Is it worth going with a lithium battery as well ?


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## Thebroons (Jan 21, 2018)

In your install does the Efoy draw power for the leisure battery to run.


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## Wully (Jan 21, 2018)

Thebroons said:


> In your install does the Efoy draw power for the leisure battery to run.



Sorry I’m not quite getting what you mean. It works and wires direct to battery you set the level that you want it to start up so when you’re battery say dips to 12.3v it’ll start up automatically and run and if you’re using a constant feed from battery then it senses this and stays on until battery is fully charged or the setting that you’ve asked it to turn off at I’m no expert  but find its been pretty simple to manage the settings


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## Wully (Jan 22, 2018)

Thanks very much for you’re calculations you must have a good calculator and a lot of free time as I have already bought and fitted this piece of equipment  I’m not that bothered about cost couldent give a toss if it cost £1000 a kw I’ve got the money to buy it and the money to run it and it’s fitted to a 100k van so moneys not a problem just like the idea of the use any time any where and if it saves me one ear bashing from wife then it’s paid for itself in my book.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jan 22, 2018)

*Fuel Cell*

There is an interesting article on fuel cells on Clive Motts website Clive is a leading writer for MMM 

Alf

Clive`s


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## campervanannie (Jan 22, 2018)

Silver sprinter said:


> Every days a school day, all new for me,  went off to find more info, keep the info coming, a lot of money:, but my only concern will be Annie, she might fancy a change from vodka, and it doesn't look a big enough container,  thanks for sharing


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## wildebus (Jan 22, 2018)

I was curious about the running costs so thought I would do some number crunching ....

Certainly an expensive - even if good - solution to a problem.
The EFOY website looks like it is manipulating the numbers to make them sound more attractive as well, I think?

"How long does an M5 or M10 fuel cartridge last on average?
_Assuming an average requirement of 33 Ah/day (400 Wh/day):
- one M10 will last approx. 4 weeks_"

33Ah/day is not a lot of use really - you would get that out of a small 80Ah leisure battery perfectly easily.  If people are often in reality looking to upgrade the batteries to gain more usable power, then maybe a more realistic number EFOY should quote is 60 or 70Ah/Day say?

Anyways, using EFOY numbers, at around 4 weeks for an M10 providing 400Wh/day (=11.1kW) , I make that £4.46/kW at a cartridge cost of £50 for an M10, and costing £1.78 a day.
Hookup costs what? £5-6 a day extra maybe? so if you use less then 1.2kW a day, you would save money  (but IF you were hooked up, you could use electric heating instead of Gas/Diesel, saving other fuel costs, and an electric heater would use give you 1kW+ a HOUR use)


How many fuel cartridges will I need in a year?
_EFOY customers generally need 2-3 M10 fuel cartridges per year in normal use._

With their 33/Ah a day number and one M10 lasting 4 weeks, 2-3 M10s mean 8-12 weeks.
Using just 33Ah a day = 400Wh (= a (very) small heater on for an hour a day) = £100 of fuel cell consumption in 8 weeks.
And  - IMO - 33Ah is unrealistic and should be likely doubled ...£100 a month (based on 14 days use)


To fit a unit like this means you must be serious about maximising the use of your MH, so 8-12 weeks a year is just about as realistic as averaging 33Ah/Day. Benefit in the winter for sure as Solar is pretty useless then, but this replaces Solar in the summer as well (EFOY promotes it as a better alternative, not in conjunction with), so as a primary source of battery replenishment in the summer as well when parked up, those on-going costs rocket.

As a solution for off-season Wild Camping, when you are stationary for days at a time, it is a good technical solution (but at £3,000+ purchase and £2 a day running)
If your *off-season Wild-Camping* involves moving day to day and for over say just 30 minutes driving, your Alternator will put more power into your Leisure battery than the 33Ah/Day projected use by EFOY (£250 Purchase for a B2B Charger + £Zero ongoing)
When *in-season Wild Camping*, a single 100W Solar Panel will almost always provide more power during the day then the EFOY Fuel Cell (£100 Purchase, £Zero Ongoing)
When *On-Site Camping* - off-season needs heating, and heating via hookup is more cost-effective then EFOY plus Gas/Diesel;  in-season, Solar will be more effective then EFOY when On-Site _without _hookup.

my own conclusion (YMMV) ....
A great gimmick for those who have the funds to spend on it.


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## Robmac (Jan 22, 2018)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> As a wealthy guy I knew used to say "Anyone can buy a Rolls Royce , but if they need to know the running costs they can't afford it "



I once phoned a dealer about a Jag I was interested in, it was POA.

I asked him how much and he replied "If you need to ask how much, you probably can't afford it"

I replied " I need to ask how much so I know how much cash to give you if I buy it!"

I bought one elsewhere.


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## mistericeman (Jan 22, 2018)

wildebus said:


> I was curious about the running costs so thought I would do some number crunching ....
> 
> Certainly an expensive - even if good - solution to a problem.
> The EFOY website looks like it is manipulating the numbers to make them sound more attractive as well, I think?
> ...



Excellent, thank you for that 

Confirms what I thought. 

I'll stick with VSR and solar panels and batteries.... It's worked perfectly well for the sort of wild camping WE do.


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## ChrisInNotts (Jan 22, 2018)

mistericeman said:


> I suspect it's possibly more complicated than just topping the methanol up....
> 
> Shame as the last lot I picked up (mid last year) was less than £80 for 204 litres of top grade M1 Stuff.....
> 
> ...


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## jagmanx (Jan 22, 2018)

*So to sum it up*



wildebus said:


> I was curious about the running costs so thought I would do some number crunching ....
> 
> Certainly an expensive - even if good - solution to a problem.
> The EFOY website looks like it is manipulating the numbers to make them sound more attractive as well, I think?
> ...



I the summer you do not need it

In winter you need to much fuel (Efoy fuel)

AS you may have read .
Not for us !


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## wildebus (Jan 22, 2018)

hairydog said:


> I'm amazed that nobody seems to have experience of refilling the fuel tanks.
> Methanol is not all that expensive, so unless there is hidden magic in there (which chemical analysis would reveal) there is a huge potential for reducing the running costs significantly.
> After all, if you ignore the ludicrous running cost, Efoy is a brilliant idea.Providing a sensibly-priced fuel supply would make it a far better buy.



TBH, it sounds a bit like ink-jet Printers ... make a shedload of money on the consumables by telling people they only get good results from the special branded containers (Epson Carts = £15 each, clones = £2.50 for set of 5) - except in this case the EFOY Fuel Cell burner does not appear to be the loss leader like the Printer is.

I am sure if/when this was more established, there would be copy "M10" fuel tanks out there at a considerable lower price, just like inkjet cartridges.


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## colinm (Jan 22, 2018)

ChrisInNotts said:


> The law stipulates that EFOY fuel cartridges may only be sold in sealed containers for safety reasons. Accordingly it is not permissible in law to provide a refill solution.
> Keith


AFAIK the law does state that items such as this must be sold in sealed containers, same for Meths, Thiners, White Spirit, etc. That doesn't mean it couldn't be part of a refillable system.


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## Deleted member 27480 (Jan 22, 2018)

*Servicing*

Has anybody considered servicing intervals and costs which the official Efoy site fails to mention (well. I couldn't find it)? After a bit of research on other forums I found this response from Efoy's customer service dept in 2013 to a query:-

_"The EFOY Comfort is designed for private use in motor homes. With an estimated lifetime of approximately 5000 h the EFOY fuel cell lasts for up to 10 years assuming average use of the motor home and average use of the fuel cell of approximately 300 to 500 charging hours per year.

After 5000 h the risk of a defective component or power decrease of the stack is high. A replacement of a defective component costs 200-600 €. If the stack reaches his limit, an exchange of a stack usually includes an exchange of several other components and ends up in costs of 1500 to 2000 €. After this repair it is not a new unit. Therefore we usually recommend also replacing the whole unit after reaching the fuel cells lifetiime.

Kai Steckmann
Leiter Kundenservice
Head of Customer Service"_


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jan 22, 2018)

Charlie the word Jealousy springs to mind when all these negative posters suddenly come alive.

Alf




Chainsaw Charlie said:


> It's a leisure product designed for use in totally unnecessary vehicles and boats for people who want to enjoy their leisure time and most won't care how much it costs to buy or run .
> Too many on here criticise everything from people buying new vans to people buying the latest generator.
> If I wanted one I wouldn't hesitate just as if I wanted a new van , there wouldn't be any good used vans about if some of us didn't have new vans and kit .


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## wildebus (Jan 22, 2018)

Is analysing an interesting product (the EFOY is certainly an interesting product) and not coming to a positive conclusion automatically Jealousy?


Personally it doesn't matter to me what anyone buys. I don't give a damn about keeping up with the Jones or having to have the lastest Car Model, Reg Number, etc, but I DO like to evaluate things of interest to see if they might appeal or be of use.  This particular product IMO doesn't really hit either buttons as it is very expensive to run and has low output.

Just to balance the books, here is another popular product - this time in the US - that is big on hype and price and low on true value: 
Goal Zero Yeti 1250 Portable Power Station | Power Packs | Goal Zero
for US $1,500 you get a nice box that contains PSW Inverter and a bunch of USB/12V Sockets powered off a 100Ah AGM battery that takes 44 hours to recharge via the vehicle.  Am I jealous of the people who have these? What you think?


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## Wully (Jan 22, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> View attachment 60632Fitted my efoy 140 fuelcell today took about 1 hour to completely install. I’m even more impressed when I heard it running or dident hear it. For me it was a hard decision because of initial set up cost and listening to everyone saying how good solar was well it’s pitch black outside and this things still charging my batteries at a cost I know but the piece of mind it’s giving me is great a constant 24 hour energy without sun or a noisy and polluting generator I’ll keep youse posted on running costs over time. View attachment 60627View attachment 60628



This started off so positive wished ide kept my trap shut it’s a bad day when you just try to inform people about somthing that you may find would be of help or interest and it turns into a typical wild camping turkey shoot as I’ve said I realy don’t care about cost or running costs it’s about the convenience. love and peace  brothers


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## Canalsman (Jan 22, 2018)

Well I for one appreciate you starting the thread.

I intend to buy one later in the year. For my pattern of use it will be an invaluable supplement to the two 100 watt solar panels. Further investigation of refilling is warranted and may be a good option once the warranty has expired.

Please continue to post about your real life usage.

Incidentally RoadPro prices do include all necessary ancillaries.


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## Wully (Jan 22, 2018)

Chris I’ve found an independent supplier for fuel there more than half the price of the company that supplied mine although most of the cost is shipping so 4 m5 tubs delivered from original supplier cost£196.80. The same order from an independent supplier £91
. Think I might need to check this looks a bit iffy


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## rugbyken (Jan 22, 2018)

the only guy i know other than wully that had this system bought it through his firm just before he sold the firm with  two crates of fuel as well he’d already managed to get his motorhome through the company the year before and steadfastly referred to it as ‘the bus’ (he had owned a coach company), his prime reason for buying the e foy was that he could transfer the whole system easily from one veh to the next , the point being there are as many models of motorhome as there are ways of using them very few of us buy them as an investment they are our toys one mans priorities are another not at any price ie fixed bed or generator when i first bought a caravan the salesman said all one van tells you is what you must have in the next , i did love charlie’s post why have solar in scotland when you only have two weeks sun a year tee hee, only you are entitled to decide how you use your dosh the point of a forum is to share information whether that’s what’s best?? or this is what i did!! unfortunately people’s opinions come across like teachers in school some share information your looking for others ram their view down your throat


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## Thebroons (Jan 22, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> Sorry I’m not quite getting what you mean. It works and wires direct to battery you set the level that you want it to start up so when you’re battery say dips to 12.3v it’ll start up automatically and run and if you’re using a constant feed from battery then it senses this and stays on until battery is fully charged or the setting that you’ve asked it to turn off at I’m no expert  but find its been pretty simple to manage the settings



Apologies. 

It should have said does the Efoy draw power from the leisure battery to run but you managed to make sense and answer the question.


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## colinm (Jan 22, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> This started off so positive wished ide kept my trap shut it’s a bad day when you just try to inform people about somthing that you may find would be of help or interest and it turns into a typical wild camping turkey shoot as I’ve said I realy don’t care about cost or running costs it’s about the convenience. love and peace  brothers



It could have gone even more downhill if you had have asked what size cables to use.


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## Fazerloz (Jan 22, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> Chris I’ve found an independent supplier for fuel there more than half the price of the company that supplied mine although most of the cost is shipping so 4 m5 tubs delivered from original supplier cost£196.80. The same order from an independent supplier £91View attachment 60744View attachment 60745. Think I might need to check this looks a bit iffy


0

I think you are right to be wary if the seller is selling Efoy fuel in Efoy containers at half price if they are not authorised dealers. Looking at the safety data spec sheets it gives it as 60% methanol, get that wrong and it could be very costly. I does not say what the other 40% is so would assume pure water, But that's all it is, is an assumption. I would have to dig much deeper before I tried any other fuel.  Its not like me pissing about with a 200 quid heater. Maybe a case of penny wise pound foolish.
This stuff would be so easy and profitable to fake.
I am sure you will do your homework.


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## maingate (Jan 22, 2018)

Looser cruiser said:


> Chris I’ve found an independent supplier for fuel there more than half the price of the company that supplied mine although most of the cost is shipping so 4 m5 tubs delivered from original supplier cost£196.80. The same order from an independent supplier £91View attachment 60744View attachment 60745. Think I might need to check this looks a bit iffy



You should contact WC member John Thompson. He full timed and used an efoy. It had a lot of hours on it and he had it overhauled at the factory I believe.

I have also read that the fuel needs to be highly refined. That 60% pure stuff might be no good for an efoy. John will know.


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## Tezza33 (Jan 22, 2018)

colinmd said:


> It could have gone even more downhill if you had have asked what size cables to use.


Also would it charge the toad on the A frame


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## Fazerloz (Jan 22, 2018)

I got my 60% bit from Efoy's  own safety spec data sheets so that should be right.  I wouldn't use anything other than genuine Efoy's fuel.


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## saxonborg (Jan 23, 2018)

We need a bit of perpective on this, methanol for the Efoy unit is not the only expensive fuel, 20+ years ago Coleman fuel (basically petrol) for petrol stoves was selling at about £4 per litre, today on fleabay it is being offered at £10 per litre so methanol is looking cheaper already, and the other point is that most of us on this forum would think nothing of downing half a bottle of decent spirit at a price of anything north of £15. So I’m with Wully keep the methanol flowing.


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## mistericeman (Jan 23, 2018)

saxonborg said:


> We need a bit of perpective on this, methanol for the Efoy unit is not the only expensive fuel, 20+ years ago Coleman fuel (basically petrol) for petrol stoves was selling at about £4 per litre, today on fleabay it is being offered at £10 per litre so methanol is looking cheaper already, and the other point is that most of us on this forum would think nothing of downing half a bottle of decent spirit at a price of anything north of £15. So I’m with Wully keep the methanol flowing.



Methanol is already cheap at £80 for close to a 56 gallon drum full.... ;-) 

Cheaper than Vodka lol


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## saxonborg (Jan 23, 2018)

mistericeman said:


> Methanol is already cheap at £80 for close to a 56 gallon drum full.... ;-)
> 
> Cheaper than Vodka lol



Did it have a Russian lable?


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## Robmac (Jan 23, 2018)

saxonborg said:


> We need a bit of perpective on this, methanol for the Efoy unit is not the only expensive fuel, 20+ years ago Coleman fuel (basically petrol) for petrol stoves was selling at about £4 per litre, today on fleabay it is being offered at £10 per litre so methanol is looking cheaper already, and the other point is that most of us on this forum would think nothing of downing half a bottle of decent spirit at a price of anything north of £15. So I’m with Wully keep the methanol flowing.



I've got to say, I agree.

People work hard to earn their money to enjoy the fruits of their labour. Some people buy boats that will only do 1 mpg or less whereas they could have bought smaller more economical boats, same with cars. Some people will pay £100 for a bottle of wine because they enjoy it. 

Horses for courses in my opinion.


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## Robmac (Jan 23, 2018)

hairydog said:


> If you have it for five years, and use it that little the average cost per KWH works out at £700 per year the machine plus £25 for the fuel. An average cost of £725 / 5.6 = £129.46 per KWH. Ouch!
> 
> Without a vastly cheaper fuel source, I think I'll stick to my LPG powered Dometic at £0.25 per KWH



To be fair, your comparison of £129.46 per KWH to £0.25 per KWH includes the price of the Efoy generator but not the Dometic.

If you look at the price of Dometic LPG generators, they are as expensive as the Efoy.


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## Fazerloz (Jan 23, 2018)

Methanol is cheap, cheaper than petrol in some countries but there are many different grades of methanol, from industrial to pure racing methanol.  The trouble is EFOY fuel is NOT just methanol it is 60% methanol which leaves another 40% that only Efoy and fuel manufacturer knows what it is.
So we do not know what grade the methanol is, we do not know what the rest is made up of and do not know what filtration system it has been through.
 Who would risk using the wrong fuel on something so costly. Not I.


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## Robmac (Jan 23, 2018)

trevskoda said:


> If thats methanol,dont smoke or flick switches on off,it burns with a clear flame with a faster flash than old petrol,we used to run a 350 jap grass tracker on the stuff 12% power boost.:scared:



Maybe it's not the same as it used to be Trev, but this article reckons it is relatively safe;

Methanol and Fuel Cells

Interesting article at first glance, but I would have to read it a few times, and I can't be bothered!


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## Deleted member 62288 (Jan 24, 2018)

ChrisInNotts said:


> If it were me I would be looking to see if it is possible to re-fill their fuel cartridges   Pure methanol is available on ebay for £27 for 20L so I wonder why the cartridge is so dear?  I may be because methanol is pretty toxic and there may also be duty implications?
> 
> Keith



The refills are expensive because they can....

Think printer ink cartridges, original vs copies

james


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## runnach (Jan 24, 2018)

saxonborg said:


> We need a bit of perpective on this, methanol for the Efoy unit is not the only expensive fuel, 20+ years ago Coleman fuel (basically petrol) for petrol stoves was selling at about £4 per litre, today on fleabay it is being offered at £10 per litre so methanol is looking cheaper already, and the other point is that most of us on this forum would think nothing of downing half a bottle of decent spirit at a price of anything north of £15. So I’m with Wully keep the methanol flowing.



I think Coleman claimed it was refined in some way new today they retail at £180 ish so not the worlds biggest problem if you screw it up. I have ran mine on lead free petrols direct from the pump for at least 30 years ! As for EFOY as Fazerloz suggests little info can be found as to how the fuel is additionally purified so it makes sense to play safe ? The capital investment would for me at least mean very careful what I do.

As for spending money, I choose to smoke and drink, simply put it is easy to see if I stopped I could spend on bigger things. The operative word is choice if the OP is happy and considers value that's all there is too it ...motor trade saying a good deal is a state of mind 

Channa


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## Byronic (Jan 24, 2018)

I'll tell you what's expensive, a fecking Camping Gaz exchange refill
that's what's expensive !!!


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