# New van choice,  Brands?



## chablais (Oct 14, 2016)

Hi Folks

We are new to the forum and also new to motor homes! Just returned from the NEC show, which has thrown up more questions than answers. After a day of listening to hyperactive salespeople I thought I would ask the real world of owners and users. Please point me in the right direction if my questions are answered elsewhere.

Brands  is there a list showing the heirachy of brands, IE it seems Chausson, Benimar offer good value for money, but are their methods of construction and overall quality good enough to last 4-5 years of 4-6 months use per year inc winter in ski resorts? It would appear most people hold Hymer up as the optimum brand for overall quality of construction and build. Is this actually true in real life?

We need a large garage to carry bikes(split down) and skis, decent seperate shower, pull down bed, so we can have a reasonable cooking and seating area. However it would seem that most manufactures concentrate of shoe horning in the max number of beds at the cost of almost everything else. Needs to be properly winterised to be OK in Euro ski resorts.  We also have to come in at 6.50m or less as that is the space we have to park it.  

We liked the Chausson 610 and 630, but unsure of quality. We also liked the Wingamm with monocoque design and large garage option, but never heard of the brand before, and worried about service and resale value.

Would consider a small A class and would be happy to use the drop down bed as the only bed, but this layout does not seem to exist. We went with a budget of 45-65k.

We liked:-

Burstner Ixeo 680G
Chausson 610+630
Benimar Tressoro 486
Wingamm Oasi 610 G
Wingamm Brownie 5.8
Wingamm Citysuite
Adria Compact with slide out rear

So are the 'lesser' brands worth it and do you 'invest' in a Hymer

thanks in advance

Andy


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## Touringtheworld (Oct 14, 2016)

German expect to use their Motor Caravan all year round, the Hymer fits your bill.


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## jennyp19 (Oct 14, 2016)

*Have a look at price and build quality of Mobiviletta*

We've just decided the Adria we bought earlier this year is almost what we want - however when we looked at the Mobiviletta K Yacht we really fell in love with it and all the extras etc it came with we couldn't resist. We had one ear marked before we saw it and it didn't disappoint. The price for an A class was the clincher being five grand cheaper than the new Adria which wasn't an A class and roughly ten less than other A Classes. It was a brand that we saw in Belgium last year but thought it was going to be beyond our budget. They have been making MHs and Yatchs for many years and although new again to U.K. they are not an unknown brand in Europe. I reckon the price will go up like a rocket in the next couple of years as compared to other MHs of the quality they are underpriced.


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## 2cv (Oct 15, 2016)

I've been to many shows over the past few years and have generally been very disappointed by the quality of vans on offer. However the Wingamms do seem very well made and the Brownie 5.8 Grand Garage seems to fit your requirements if you stretch your budget a bit.
Compact Motorhome Brownie 5.8 gl model - Wingamm


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## jagmanx (Oct 15, 2016)

*Space !*

Given your usage I suggest at least a 6.5 m vehicle with fixed bed.

Depending on your expected no of years usage suggest you invest sensibly
Maybe a good 2nd hand unit.

We bought ours 6 years ago already 4 years old but minimal mileage and have "lived in it" for the last 3 summers (6 months a time).
We have a good sized shower as part of the bathroom but with a door to contain the spray.

Ours is not suitable for winter use..
In particular you need to consider waste water arrangements (freezing ?)


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## phillybarbour (Oct 15, 2016)

jennyp19 said:


> We've just decided the Adria we bought earlier this year is almost what we want - however when we looked at the Mobiviletta K Yacht we really fell in love with it and all the extras etc it came with we couldn't resist. We had one ear marked before we saw it and it didn't disappoint. The price for an A class was the clincher being five grand cheaper than the new Adria which wasn't an A class and roughly ten less than other A Classes. It was a brand that we saw in Belgium last year but thought it was going to be beyond our budget. They have been making MHs and Yatchs for many years and although new again to U.K. they are not an unknown brand in Europe. I reckon the price will go up like a rocket in the next couple of years as compared to other MHs of the quality they are underpriced.



This van was recently tested by one of the magazines and there main comment was that there was a lot of noise while on the move like vans of yesteryear.


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## Robmac (Oct 15, 2016)

jennyp19 said:


> We've just decided the Adria we bought earlier this year is almost what we want - however when we looked at the Mobiviletta K Yacht we really fell in love with it and all the extras etc it came with we couldn't resist. We had one ear marked before we saw it and it didn't disappoint. The price for an A class was the clincher being five grand cheaper than the new Adria which wasn't an A class and roughly ten less than other A Classes. It was a brand that we saw in Belgium last year but thought it was going to be beyond our budget. They have been making MHs and Yatchs for many years and although new again to U.K. they are not an unknown brand in Europe. I reckon the price will go up like a rocket in the next couple of years as compared to other MHs of the quality they are underpriced.



Hi Jenny/John.

The Mobivletta's are certainly great quality. Jim (Helmit) had a Land Yacht until fairly recently, and what a quality build it was.

Looking forward to seeing your new one.


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## phillybarbour (Oct 15, 2016)

Don't believe salesman or brochures re ski use, it's very unforgiving in those temperatures day after day. We ski from our van for around 4 weeks a year.

To ski from a van you have two options-
1. Buy a double floor van with all tanks and all pipes/valves inside the heated double floor.
2. Buy a non double floor van and don't use water in the van (ie use site facilities).

You could try leaving waste valve open and draining to a bucket, but you may still get frozen fresh water supply depending on the temp and van design.

You could easily get a used double floor van for that budget but new will be tight.

When talking about skiing don't take advice from people who have not done it. -5 in Scotland is like chalk and cheese. Don't take my word have a look at motorhome ski.com you may decide skiing from a van is not for you.


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## phillybarbour (Oct 15, 2016)

We love skiing, we love our motorhome and doing both together is as good as it gets, but you need the right van. I am not trying to put you off, I just suggesting to ski from your van and enjoy it at any temp you need the right van. 

If you drop the ski idea your requirements are very different. If like me you want to ski from your home from home read the website I suggested and go from there. To ski I would suggest any double floor van as double floor vans tend only to be produced by the better brands.


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## UFO (Oct 15, 2016)

We like our Fiat Ducati Adria Twin, right size and layout for us. Build quality not the best. For the next van will have a good look at a Wilda 2 berth, 3 berth and 4 berth motorhome sales and motorhome manufacture well designed, standard features such as gas tank, solar, etc., also water and waste tanks are winterised.


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## ScamperVan (Oct 15, 2016)

Re. the skiing - I agree with phillybarbour. We spent 4 weeks skiing in Austria last year (it was our first ski trip, but not our first winter trip) and used the campsites at Solden and Mayrhofen together with a couple of overnights at subzero temps. 
At Solden it was -20 deg C when we arrived but warmed up to -10ish. Our grey waste pipe froze but this wasn't a problem as we had plenty of capacity and were using the campsite showers. Everything else was fine. 

Our Hymer 562 coped admirably with the low temperatures. It's a low-profile van so to cut down on heat loss we use a heavy duty thermal curtain that drapes behind the swivelled front seats. 

Our MH is 6.57m long and it's just slightly too small to be properly comfortable for us for the length of time we want to use it skiing (6 weeks, this year). This is in part because we take our two dogs so spend more time in the evenings in it than perhaps others do. The sleeping arrangements are fine (2 fixed singles over the garage) but we feel a larger lounge area would be better. 
Having said that, whilst we will eventually upgrade (first choice is a Hymer 580 MLI, second choice Hymer Dynamic Line 588) we aren't rushing to do so, and will wait to pick up an "off new" one, if we can.


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## molly 2 (Oct 15, 2016)

2cv said:


> I've been to many shows over the past few years and have generally been very disappointed by the quality of vans on offer. However the Wingamms do seem very well made and the Brownie 5.8 Grand Garage seems to fit your requirements if you stretch your budget a bit.
> Compact Motorhome Brownie 5.8 gl model - Wingamm


Wow, i like a lot  , and it is monocoque  construction,


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## chablais (Oct 15, 2016)

Hi Phillyharbour
Thanks for your info. Still keen to ski from the van, as it opens up so much choice, and also can move to better snow conditions if required. We are used to backpacking and cycle touring, so being organised in a small space and the cold do not put us off. It is more off putting spending 60-80k and not getting the right vehicle. Where we live that can still buy a house!! There is way too much choice, and yet hardly any layouts that seem to suit a couple into the outdoors. We feel we do not need huge lounges and multiple beds at the expense of poor worktop space in kitchen areas and combo toilet showers. 

The Chausson 630 with drop down bed is a great layout for us, but now looks like the winterisation is not good enough, same in the Burstner Ixeo 680G. The Wingamms look suited to winter use, but I am putt off by the lack of brand awareness, which could impact re-sale values. Also not much info on their electrical systems, and I cannot find much feedback from owners.

So does it really only leave us with Hymer?

Their small A class all have double floors and all water tanks inboard, if we can stretch to it the Duomobil looks Ok, although the enormous lounge will be lost on us. At 6.99M it is the max length we can fit on our parking area.
Do we need to be looking at the Alde wet heating system? This is what Hymer include in their 'Arctic pack' along with insulation mats and outside screen cover.

What van do you use?

Thanks again for your help

Andy


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## shaunr68 (Oct 30, 2016)

In terms of size and layout (drop-down bed over the cab and a large rear lounge) does the Hymer B634 fit the bill?


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## jake (Oct 30, 2016)

Don't waste your money!buy an auto trail .:camper::drive:


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## Dezi (Oct 30, 2016)

Live life to the full, buy a Murvi Morello on the latest Fiat Ducato van. 

  Dezi  :cheers:


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## pughed2 (Oct 30, 2016)

*What camper van?*

Chablis..........someone above has mentioned an Adria Twin on fiat ducato. but only if you want to throw away £10.000 on a new one, as the identical but slightly less appointed trigano. Tributes on fiat ducato are £10.000 cheaper approx.  The Adria interiors are made to be admired as far as I can see, not used.  I do not see you made clear whether you want a pvc or coach-built,  and sorry, most of these new ones only return somewhere about 30 mpg diesel,  whereas an older trigano tribute carefully driven gives well over 43 mpg diesel, and I have logged 57 mpg out of mine, even though some on here refuse to believe it.........steve bristol


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## m30 (Oct 30, 2016)

If I could find something as good to replace it with, I would sell you our Euramobil Ti 560 LB, 6m long 2 berth A class, double floor, 150 litres and 100 litre of fresh and grey water tanks, full size fridge and rear bathroom. As regards skiing, we use ours albeit for 7-10 days each January due to work, but extra heating on the move can be a bonus, either by using your gas heating if it has the crash protection, or like ours with a supplementary heater using engine heat. Also, the better insulated the van, the cooler it tends to be inside in summer not just warmer in winter. Dont just go off the standard for winterisation which simply means if the heater is powerfull enough to negate the need for any insulation. What i mean is, some vans claim to be winterised, when really all they have is a dual fuel heater thats powerfull enough to warm the van from cold.

Anyway, as i started, give Euramobil a look, there now being imported into the uk again.

Stu


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## Deleted member 9849 (Oct 30, 2016)

I agree that for your requirements a fixed bed over a garage would be suitable.Hymer do make an A class with 2 longitudinal singles over the garage and a smallish lounge.

hymer b568 - Google Search

It is just less than 7 metres long so would fit the OP requirements.A new one is a bit beyond the OP budget but a s/hand one could fit the bill.


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## jake (Oct 31, 2016)

them mercs are fine ,until you try and draw the 5th. heater plug!if its stuck the garage will not accept responsibility unless you agree to pay for all repairs ,eg remove the cyl.head ! fix and replace =£lotts & lotts&lotts . I now have a fiat ducato hopefully its not as expensive!!
 :drive:


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## John H (Oct 31, 2016)

We have a Hymer B698 and have owned it for three and a half years. Apart from problems with the Dometic fridge, we are very pleased with it. We live in it most of the time, the build quality is excellent (apart from one or two minor annoyances) and the bed is as comfortable as we have ever slept in anywhere. I can't say whether other brands are not as good but I can recommend Hymer.


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## chablais (Nov 4, 2016)

pughed2 said:


> Chablis..........someone above has mentioned an Adria Twin on fiat ducato. but only if you want to throw away £10.000 on a new one, as the identical but slightly less appointed trigano. Tributes on fiat ducato are £10.000 cheaper approx.  The Adria interiors are made to be admired as far as I can see, not used.  I do not see you made clear whether you want a pvc or coach-built,  and sorry, most of these new ones only return somewhere about 30 mpg diesel,  whereas an older trigano tribute carefully driven gives well over 43 mpg diesel, and I have logged 57 mpg out of mine, even though some on here refuse to believe it.........steve bristol



Hi Steve,

Thanks for the info. One of our main requirements is to be able to carry four bikes inside the van, and sadly all the PVC's I looked at had no storage space at the back, now if you could have a drop down bed that stored in the high roof, I could have a seperate shower and a decent garage, we only need two berths. I sent an e mail to Murvi asking about changing/customizing the internal layout but they have not replied. The vans are defo big enough to fit everything we need in, but there is not a layout that gives big garage space, I like the idea of PVC as much more secure, and of course easier to drive than some 'compact' vans.


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## jacquigem (Nov 4, 2016)

Personally I would not buy a new van as usually too many faults . Go for a good low mileage 2nd hand van. Our Autotrail still had wrapping on oven and had far fewer faults than an earlier new swift. Have heard many disappointing stories from people buying new vans


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## hextal (Nov 5, 2016)

chablais said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> Thanks for the info. One of our main requirements is to be able to carry four bikes inside the van, and sadly all the PVC's I looked at had no storage space at the back, now if you could have a drop down bed that stored in the high roof, I could have a seperate shower and a decent garage, we only need two berths. I sent an e mail to Murvi asking about changing/customizing the internal layout but they have not replied. The vans are defo big enough to fit everything we need in, but there is not a layout that gives big garage space, I like the idea of PVC as much more secure, and of course easier to drive than some 'compact' vans.



How about either converting it yourself or getting a custom conversion done by a specialist? There are loads about and you'll get exactly the layout you want. You can even get them to do the tricky stuff and do the easy stuff yourself.

You could source the van yourself then just get it converted.

In terms of security I'd say yes and no. The bodies are definitely more solid than that of a 'flimsy' so might take a small whack a bit better, and the doors are more solid, but anything with motorhome style windows can be got into with virtually no effort as they are about as robust as a cheese slice.

The other thing I'd say about van conversions is they are more tricky to insulate well, and I've seen many pro converters that seem to have barely bothered trying to insulate the doors and door pillars, whereas, non PVC are essentially built from an insulated material these days.

I'd not pay too much attention to the insulation grades touted with some of the newer vans, particularly PVC as the testing seems inherently flawed, relying more on the ability of the heater than the effectiveness of the insulation. Essentially you could probably get a top rating by putting a patio heater in a convertible.

I prefer PVCs and converted mine myself, but they do require a little more thought, and if getting a pro built one I'd definitely take a look at how they've insulated the tricky bits.


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## ScamperVan (Nov 5, 2016)

There's a Hymer 562 for sale in Scotland - this is the model we have and it's been great. 

This is the ad (no idea if it's genuine) and it's advertised as a 682 but it isn't - you can see the model on pic 4 

HYMER Silverline 682 | in Perth, Perth and Kinross | Gumtree


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## Gemani2 (Nov 5, 2016)

Wow that's an impressive budget ! 
We have an old hymer 644 , and paid less than 7k for it . We have looked at newer 'all singing and all dancing ' motor homes , but I can honestly say " what have they got that cost 20-30k  more than what I've already got !? The only thing is turbo !!!! Which we don't really miss. 
Everyone's choice of vehicle is soooh  different 
Don't think you can wrong with a hymer. 
And out of all the nice shiny new white campers and parked up, it's always our old hymer that makes people stop and look !!! 
Just take your time , list the things that's important TO YOU. And stick to your list.!


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## pughed2 (Nov 5, 2016)

*Motorhome needs*

Chablis........it looks like for your needs, you are going to need a coach-built van with garage, and have to sacrifice mileage, possibly down to 25 mpg. I have though seen a few larger PVCs with bikes laid flat on roof........there's loads of variety, and the guy suggesting a secondhand, is good advice.......steve bristol


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## chablais (Nov 26, 2016)

Hi Folks

So after an accelerated learning curve since visiting the show at the NEC, we are about to purchase a used Carthago Chic I44, private sale. We had thought we would buy new, but could not find anything that we where happy to blow upwards of 65k on. So secondhand gives us the opportunity to learn all about motorhome ownership and use and we can go from there. Just a house extension to start and finish, then convince the Mrs to pack in work and we will be off.
Thanks for all the advice, I am sure I will be asking plenty of questions in the future as I come to operate all the systems on board and sort internet access, solar, etc.
Chablais


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## Gaspard (Nov 26, 2016)

Having just read through this thread, I was anout to suggest Cathago..

We use out van in winter for skiing too.  We have a Levoyageur ( lux Pilote ) . Fully winterised. Never had an issue at -25 and never had to use a bucket . We chose ours because of the layout and mercedes base.

We see many Cathagos and Concordes on our travels and people are very happy with their performance.

Enjoy !


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## chablais (Dec 13, 2016)

Hi Gaspard

Yes, I wanted a Mercedes 3lt or an Iveco with twin wheel rear axle as opposed to a tag axle, however, good used ones are hard to come across. Seems owners tend to keep hold of them. I wanted the weight capacity they give and the ease of driving.
I have had the van for a week now, so much to learn! Also so much to buy!!  What matress covers and sheets etc do you use?
Do you know if the fresh water tank has an overflow?
It appears that when filling using a Heos hozelock style connector I can end pressurizing the tank, I thought it would have breather and overflow, hard to see all the connections on the tank. Also do you drink from the fresh water tank?

How much gas do you get through when ski ing?
We have Alde wet system, and also a Webasto diesal fuelled heater.
How long can you last off EHU 
How many and what AH batteries
do you have solar and how effective is it in winter ski conditions
do you fit winter tyres as opposed to M+S

Apologies re all the questions, it is our first van, we are used to bike touring and backpacking...............
We anticipate a winter tour of euro ski resorts, maybe via the Jura and down into Italy, Dolomites

Any and all tips greatly appreciated

Andy


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## ScamperVan (Dec 13, 2016)

chablais said:


> Hi Gaspard
> 
> Yes, I wanted a Mercedes 3lt or an Iveco with twin wheel rear axle as opposed to a tag axle, however, good used ones are hard to come across. Seems owners tend to keep hold of them. I wanted the weight capacity they give and the ease of driving.
> I have had the van for a week now, so much to learn! Also so much to buy!!  What matress covers and sheets etc do you use?
> ...



We reckon we can do about 2 weeks on 2 x 11kg Gaslow - with gas being used for cooking and heating.  (Truma blown air heating). EHU in Europe can be expensive (50-85c /kw). We have a gennie for emergencies. 

Solar may not be useable if you are parked in the shade of the mountain - direct sunlight may only be "on" for an hour, if at all! 

We managed well with Michelin Agilis M&S tyres. Needed to use snow socks to get up a short, steep icy bank on a campsite. We also carry chains. 

Motorhome skiing is fab and you'll be amazed how popular it is! We do a mixture of long stays on sites and overnights on aires/stellplatz if we find one we like near enough to the lifts. Relative newbies at it and still learning 

I was a bit freaked by stories of gas not working at low temps but ours was fine - the gas locker is in the garage and so is the truma boiler so it was warm enough to keep it flowing. 

There used to be a whole ski section on here - you may be able to find the old threads for more info. In one, I linked to a blog I found very helpful 
Travels with Ian and Sue: Europe Trip 2012/13 - Quedlinburg to Bad Harzburg


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## malagaoth (Dec 14, 2016)

Our M/h is starting to get a bit long in the tooth  - its comming up 9 years old and we have been looking around for a replacement and it would be fair to say that we have seen nothing which suits us better than what we have  (AS Nuevo EK).

I love the Wingamm but when I saw the price smelling salts were required  - also rare as hens teeth!
the smallest Ixeo was also nice and didnt make my bank account blanche too much but there were small things I wasnt sure about
AS Broadway I liked, I liked a lot, but it is only a stretched out Nuevo and you pay a lot extra for what amounts to slightly bigger bed and an extra cupboard
AS Nuevo four berth looks ideal but it would need to be a special order with two bench seats rather than the usual arrangement - so that would mean a brand new M/h which I wouldnt be keen on

So it looks like I shall be keeping what I got!


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