# Electrics / Leisure battery problem



## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

Hi. As I mentioned in my earlier newbie post, we have an annoying technical problem. I'm afraid to explain it properly this could get quite long, please bear with me. I should point out I don't have much technical knowledge myself.

We have a Devon Monaco 54 reg, with a 110 amp leisure battery, a solar panel, a Waeco compressor fridge and a Steca Solsum 8.8x, which I believe is some kind of charge regulator. In the past we have spent several days off-site with no problem, examples being; a week on Mull with no hooking-up at all, but a bit of driving most days; 5 days parked up at Glastonbury with no hook-up and no driving. In both cases the battery never got too low and the fridge continued to work. Presumably the solar panel helps a in such circumstances. 

For the last 12 months it's been a different picture. Now we can have been hooked up for a while or been driving and the battery shows good charge, say about mid-day, but once we're off hook-up or stationery the charge seems to drop far too quickly. By early evening it's getting low and by bed-time it's not enough to work the fridge (or heating) so the fridge goes off. This is a big problem when you like wild camping as we do. Sometimes the charge starts to go up again quite quickly come morning, so the fridge comes on again, but the only source is the solar panel, which I thought only gives a trickle charge.

We visited an auto electrician, who said all seemed to be working ok and could only suggest the battery may not be up to scratch. We went back to ATS where we bought the battery (in just July last year), who checked it and it showed as a 'good battery', so of course they couldn't change it under warranty. Last month we rang ES Hartleys at Ings (near Kendal), who referred us to another auto electrician in Kendal that they use. We took it there feeling rather optimistic. Again we were told they couldn't find anything wrong and confirmed the battery is ok. They couldn't explain why we had done so well in the past but not now. They explained it's a matter of maths; a fully charged 110 amp battery running a fridge using 5 amps per hour will only last 22 hours before running out. I've googled this quite a bit and get the maths, but 2 other factors; the fridge doesn't use power constantly as it works like a home fridge and is thermostat controlled, going on and off intermittently; secondly the solar panel will be giving some top-up too. Here's where the maths don't add up though; if the battery is fully charged at mid-day why has it gone so low the fridge stops working by bed-time, no more than 12 hours later?

Something must have happened or gone wrong for us to have such a different experience now with our van. I hope someone can help, as I don't know where to turn next. We love our van but are now even considering changing it, with the added problem however of selling it in its present state.

I am really sorry about the length of this post, but it seemed necessary to give full info. If anyone can help, please let me know if you need any more information. Many thanks, in anticipation.

Ian.


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## Deleted member 56601 (Jul 30, 2017)

Have you checked that you haven't accidentally put the fridge on a cooler setting than before?


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## Fazerloz (Jul 30, 2017)

How are they testing your battery ? I would think a fair bet your battery is far past its best and one thing is for sure it will be far cheaper to try a new battery than to change your van.


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

Edina said:


> Have you checked that you haven't accidentally put the fridge on a cooler setting than before?



If only! No, it's just a dial that you turn to whatever level you want and we always put it to about half way, except in winter when we would put it a bit lower. We kind of suspect it may have something to do with the fridge, maybe taking a lot more charge than it should be, but the last auto electrician we consulted said it seemed to be working ok.

Thanks anyway.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 30, 2017)

Did anyone check the battery in the van what the current was   (amps ) taken measured.
 Have you other load being used that you are unaware of ?. 
Is the fridge thermostat working ? it could be running without turning off.
Can you turn the fridge OFF and check your battery over a few days.
Can you borrow a battery doesn't matter what size and try that

Alf


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> How are they testing your battery ? I would think a fair bet your battery is far past its best and one thing is for sure it will be far cheaper to try a new battery than to change your van.



The thing is the battery is only 12 months old and ATS wouldn't change it under warranty as they said it tested 'good'. Just remembered we had a starting problem early June and had to get AA out, resulting in a new cab battery being fitted. While he was there the AA man kindly checked the leisure battery for us and he also said it was fine. That's 3 different tests now confirming it is ok.

Thanks anyway.


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## oldish hippy (Jul 30, 2017)

have you  checked that you getting a charge from solar panel or getting a charge from engine or that fridge is co0ling whilst driving


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

Alf said:


> Did anyone check the battery in the van what the current was   (amps ) taken measured.
> Have you other load being used that you are unaware of ?.
> Is the fridge thermostat working ? it could be running without turning off.
> Can you turn the fridge OFF and check your battery over a few days.
> ...



Yes the last auto electrician definitely checked the current and how much was being used with the fridge on and off, which he said was correct.
No other load as far as I'm aware, and presumably the auto electrician would have found that.
You can hear the fridge go off and on again, just like a house fridge, so presumably the thermostat is working.
Have done that and the battery does last much longer, almost indefinitely, with the fridge off, which is partly why I suspect an issue with the fridge. Trouble is I keep being told it's working fine.
Good idea, I'll think if I can borrow one somewhere.

Thanks.

I've considered ring Devon Conversions, near Durham, but I think they don't deal with repairs or problems at all, does anyone know if that is correct?


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

oldish hippy said:


> have you  checked that you getting a charge from solar panel or getting a charge from engine or that fridge is co0ling whilst driving



Yes I'm pretty sure the solar panel works fine, hence the charge going up come morning even when not hooked up or driving.
Also it seems to charge up fine from driving.
Yes the fridge works fine while driving.

Thanks.


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## Deleted member 56601 (Jul 30, 2017)

I use one of these to check what each device is using, just remove the fridge fuse and plug it in; it will tell you how many amps the fridge is using and how often it is turning off and on. The link is for standard blade fuses, but they are available for mini blade as well. 

Car Fuse Current Amp Meter Battery Electrical Leakage Detector Tester | eBay

I've found it very useful and means you can check each fuse to find out where current is being used.


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## yorkslass (Jul 30, 2017)

I am no expert, but I believe it is possible for a battery to appear to be good, but when put under load be found to discharge way too quickly cos it's faulty. We're just checking ours at the moment for the same reason, seemingly discharging too quickly.


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## Canalsman (Jul 30, 2017)

Sounds like the leisure battery is faulty despite the tests carried out.

What I would do is to try another battery if you have access to one - a serviceable battery from another vehicle perhaps?


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 30, 2017)

Yes these are quite good but buy one of these and fit insulated crocodile clips at each end and you can test any loose cables or direct from the battery

Alf 


In Line Standard Blade Fuse Holder Splash Proof All Types and Quantities Car Van | eBay

mhd8lGf8Q

5A-20A Crocodile Clips SMALL Copper/Nickel INSULATED Solder/Crimp Test Alligator | eBay




Edina said:


> I use one of these to check what each device is using, just remove the fridge fuse and plug it in; it will tell you how many amps the fridge is using and how often it is turning off and on. The link is for standard blade fuses, but they are available for mini blade as well.
> 
> Car Fuse Current Amp Meter Battery Electrical Leakage Detector Tester | eBay
> 
> I've found it very useful and means you can check each fuse to find out where current is being used.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 30, 2017)

Ok  now try leaving all the lights and time how long the battery lasts.

The alternative is to discharge the battery running the fridge remove the Battery in A DISCHARGED state and return to ATS and see what they say

Alf

Alf



Conroy said:


> Yes the last auto electrician definitely checked the current and how much was being used with the fridge on and off, which he said was correct.
> No other load as far as I'm aware, and presumably the auto electrician would have found that.
> You can hear the fridge go off and on again, just like a house fridge, so presumably the thermostat is working.
> Have done that and the battery does last much longer, almost indefinitely, with the fridge off, which is partly why I suspect an issue with the fridge. Trouble is I keep being told it's working fine.
> ...


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

Edina said:


> I use one of these to check what each device is using, just remove the fridge fuse and plug it in; it will tell you how many amps the fridge is using and how often it is turning off and on. The link is for standard blade fuses, but they are available for mini blade as well.
> 
> Car Fuse Current Amp Meter Battery Electrical Leakage Detector Tester | eBay
> 
> I've found it very useful and means you can check each fuse to find out where current is being used.



Thanks, I'll have a look at that. Though I think the last auto electrician did that and didn't find anything unusual.


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

yorkslass said:


> I am no expert, but I believe it is possible for a battery to appear to be good, but when put under load be found to discharge way too quickly cos it's faulty. We're just checking ours at the moment for the same reason, seemingly discharging too quickly.



That's interesting. So it could be some kind of fault that doesn't show up when tested in the standard way, which might explain why tests by 3 different people have not shown any problem. The question is, if it is indeed faulty how do I get ATS to change it under warranty if their test shows it as 'good'? Or maybe I will just have to buy another new one.

I would be interested to know if you find anything from your checking, if you don't mind.


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

POI Admin said:


> Sounds like the leisure battery is faulty despite the tests carried out.
> 
> What I would do is to try another battery if you have access to one - a serviceable battery from another vehicle perhaps?



Interesting, especially considering the comments from 'yorkslass'. A couple of relatives have vans too, maybe I could borrow one of their batteries.

Thanks.


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## harrow (Jul 30, 2017)

The only thing I can suggest is swapping the leisure battery for a know good one or trying a second battery with jump leads to see how it performs.


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

Alf said:


> Ok  now try leaving all the lights and time how long the battery lasts.
> 
> The alternative is to discharge the battery running the fridge remove the Battery in A DISCHARGED state and return to ATS and see what they say
> 
> ...



Thanks, I could try that last idea in conjunction with borrowing another battery to try. Not sure if ATS will be very forthcoming re the warranty though. It doesn't seem to matter what anyone else says, just what their check says.


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

harrow said:


> The only thing I can suggest is swapping the leisure battery for a know good one or trying a second battery with jump leads to see how it performs.



It's looking like I'll be trying a different battery to see how it works with that.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 30, 2017)

Our coffee unit give batteries a hard life. The battery when new will easily work a 10 hour day. Depending on the make of battery they will last from as little as 6 weeks up to what we use now Trojans 12mnths.  When knackered and only lasting 4hrs the volt meter will be reading 12.5v and when put under load will drop into the low 10s which would be below your fridge requirements causing it to fault. When taken off load the battery voltage rapidly returns back to 12.5/12.4v which would make you think the battery was good. But it can't supply required amount of power. 
Do not forget with a 110ah battery you will only in reality have a usable 60/70ah without doing damage dependant on the quality of the battery. If so you are doing well to get your 5 days without ehu.
At this moment I am having the same problem with the comp fridge in the MH as you and for some reason I am back peddling from buying new batteries when I know it would sort it. Suppose it could have something to do with spending £400 on new batteries.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 30, 2017)

Conroy said:


> Thanks, I could try that last idea in conjunction with borrowing another battery to try. Not sure if ATS will be very forthcoming re the warranty though. It doesn't seem to matter what anyone else says, just what their check says.



Warranties on batteries may as well be written on toilet paper as there are that many get outs. [how deep its been discharged, for how long , how its charged, how many cycles its done etc ,etc.].


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## harrow (Jul 30, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> Our coffee unit give batteries a hard life. The battery when new will easily work a 10 hour day. Depending on the make of battery they will last from as little as 6 weeks up to what we use now Trojans 12mnths.  When knackered and only lasting 4hrs the volt meter will be reading 12.5v and when put under load will drop into the low 10s which would be below your fridge requirements causing it to fault. When taken off load the battery voltage rapidly returns back to 12.5/12.4v which would make you think the battery was good. But it can't supply required amount of power.
> Do not forget with a 110ah battery you will only in reality have a usable 60/70ah without doing damage dependant on the quality of the battery. If so you are doing well to get your 5 days without ehu.
> At this moment I am having the same problem with the comp fridge in the MH as you and for some reason I am back peddling from buying new batteries when I know it would sort it. Suppose it could have something to do with spending £400 on new batteries.



I know.

I feel real pain when I spend money.

Have I told you that I am retired now, only another six years till I get my state pension !

:wacko::wacko::wacko:


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## Fazerloz (Jul 30, 2017)

harrow said:


> I know.
> 
> I feel real pain when I spend money.
> 
> ...



A very similar boat to me. Paddles and creeks. But keep your chin up.


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## molly 2 (Jul 30, 2017)

The op state's the fridge uses 5 amph ,I was leads to believe they use 2 amph  when running  ,much less when the thermastat  turns off .sterling do a fridge comparison  test on U tube, worth a look .


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 30, 2017)

I believe they draw 5 amp but as there is the thermostat to regulate the temperature they reckon an average of 2 amps, with possible battery damage and the fridge working overtime in the warm weather it looks more than likely a faulty battery most people don't recognize the damage by allowing a battery to go flat ( the op may not have done this) but without all the details it's difficult to give a definitive answer to his problems

Alf




molly 2 said:


> The op state's the fridge uses 5 amph ,I was leads to believe they use 2 amph  when running  ,much less when the thermastat  turns off .sterling do a fridge comparison  test on U tube, worth a look .


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> Our coffee unit give batteries a hard life. The battery when new will easily work a 10 hour day. Depending on the make of battery they will last from as little as 6 weeks up to what we use now Trojans 12mnths.  When knackered and only lasting 4hrs the volt meter will be reading 12.5v and when put under load will drop into the low 10s which would be below your fridge requirements causing it to fault. When taken off load the battery voltage rapidly returns back to 12.5/12.4v which would make you think the battery was good. But it can't supply required amount of power.
> Do not forget with a 110ah battery you will only in reality have a usable 60/70ah without doing damage dependant on the quality of the battery. If so you are doing well to get your 5 days without ehu.
> At this moment I am having the same problem with the comp fridge in the MH as you and for some reason I am back peddling from buying new batteries when I know it would sort it. Suppose it could have something to do with spending £400 on new batteries.



Been and done a check of the battery like you refer to, with my multimeter. With fridge off it read 13.25; switched fridge on and it read 12.90; switched fridge off again and it read 13.25. Does this imply the battery is in fact ok? I was beginning to hope it was a faulty battery, it would be more expense to buy a new one (on top of what I've already spent trying to sort this) but at least it would get it sorted, hopefully.


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

Alf said:


> I believe they draw 5 amp but as there is the thermostat to regulate the temperature they reckon an average of 2 amps, with possible battery damage and the fridge working overtime in the warm weather it looks more than likely a faulty battery most people don't recognize the damage by allowing a battery to go flat ( the op may not have done this) but without all the details it's difficult to give a definitive answer to his problems
> 
> Alf



My understanding is that you divide the wattage of the appliance by 12 to get the amps usage. So a wattage of 60 would give amps usage of 5 per hour. I've just googled my fridge and it appears to be 45 watt, so the usage should be 3.75 per hour. Taking into account the thermostat operation I can see how 2 amps per hour could be right. If a battery only ever gets to say 70% of full charge, which would be 77 amps for a 110 amp battery, then surely it should still last nearly 2 days, taking into account the additional trickle in from the solar panel. But it's actually running out in less than 10 hours.

I may not be technical but I'm not bad at maths, which is why I take dispute with the auto electrician's comment about it all being a matter of maths. I get that but the figures don't seem to add up.


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## pgandt (Jul 30, 2017)

As a matter of interest whats the nake and model of the fridge. I dont know your type of motorhome but can you run it on LPG?


Also lesuire batteries whilst having in your case 110amp capcity they will not give you all of that to use. Once they get to approx 80% of capcity they basically cannot supply enough power at the ampage you need to run in this case your fridge. Consequently the fridge will stop working on 12v

Ps i am not an expert in any way but the above is my understanding about battery capcities etc


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## Conroy (Jul 30, 2017)

pgandt said:


> As a matter of interest whats the nake and model of the fridge. I dont know your type of motorhome but can you run it on LPG?
> 
> 
> Also lesuire batteries whilst having in your case 110amp capcity they will not give you all of that to use. Once they get to approx 80% of capcity they basically cannot supply enough power at the ampage you need to run in this case your fridge. Consequently the fridge will stop working on 12v
> ...



It's a Waeco MDC65 compressor fridge that doesn't work off gas.

My understanding too, from what I've read previously, in my last reply to Alf I actually assumed 70% as maximum capacity, so if 80% is more the case it should last even longer. 

Now I understand the maths, I don't really know how we managed 5 days in the past without hook-up or driving, but if I could get back to 2 to 3 days I'd be pleased.


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## harrow (Jul 30, 2017)

Conroy said:


> It's a Waeco MDC65 compressor fridge that doesn't work off gas.
> 
> My understanding too, from what I've read previously, in my last reply to Alf I actually assumed 70% as maximum capacity, so if 80% is more the case it should last even longer.
> 
> Now I understand the maths, I don't really know how we managed 5 days in the past without hook-up or driving, but if I could get back to 2 to 3 days I'd be pleased.


IF nothing else has changed then it has to be the battery.

As long as nothing has changed and the leisure battery still receives the same amount of charge current.

:wave::wave::wave:


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 30, 2017)

If you did get the times you stated originally, and the fridge is ok then the only other thing is the charge by the solar panels an you test the charge from them. If they are not charging adequately then this looks like the problem. You state 13.25 no fridge 12.90. With fridge.


Alf






Conroy said:


> It's a Waeco MDC65 compressor fridge that doesn't work off gas.
> 
> My understanding too, from what I've read previously, in my last reply to Alf I actually assumed 70% as maximum capacity, so if 80% is more the case it should last even longer.
> 
> Now I understand the maths, I don't really know how we managed 5 days in the past without hook-up or driving, but if I could get back to 2 to 3 days I'd be pleased.


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## molly 2 (Jul 30, 2017)

Alf said:


> I believe they draw 5 amp but as there is the thermostat to regulate the temperature they reckon an average of 2 amps, with possible battery damage and the fridge working overtime in the warm weather it looks more than likely a faulty battery most people don't recognize the damage by allowing a battery to go flat ( the op may not have done this) but without all the details it's difficult to give a definitive answer to his problems
> 
> Alf


 makes sense Alf, the dometic 3 way fridge takes 10 amps  constant, mine causes lots of problems for my uero 5 smart alternator   . another member runs a similar compressor fridge no problem  he has a large battery bank and  a 400 w  solar panel .I am beginning to think the op battery has hard a life and is well below the original capacity .


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## Chris356 (Jul 30, 2017)

We had a waeco in our t5 think the cut off voltage is 10.5 volts so if you're fridge is cutting off after 8 hours then your battery is goosed


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## Fazerloz (Jul 30, 2017)

Conroy said:


> Been and done a check of the battery like you refer to, with my multimeter. With fridge off it read 13.25; switched fridge on and it read 12.90; switched fridge off again and it read 13.25. Does this imply the battery is in fact ok? I was beginning to hope it was a faulty battery, it would be more expense to buy a new one (on top of what I've already spent trying to sort this) but at least it would get it sorted, hopefully.



I take it these figures are taken during the day with the solar panel still connected to the battery. If so not a true reflection of the battery voltage. See what the readings are at night when you have no input from panel.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 30, 2017)

By my reconning it will be a Renault 2.5 Euro 4 engine 

Alf




hairydog said:


> Oh dear. I just re-read your original post. If your van is 54 reg, it could be Euro 6 and will be Euro 5.
> 
> What I'm writing here applies to Euro 6, but also can apply to Euro 5. You may find out whether it affects your van by reading the manual, or by connecting a multimeter to the battery with the engine running, but I fear you do have this setup, which may be the root of your problem.
> 
> ...


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## molly 2 (Jul 31, 2017)

Problem I have with my uero 5 smart alternator is after a few days on hookup the engine battery is charged by the on board charger ,so the engine battery is overcharged to about 12 .7 volts this shuts the alternator down  until battery drops to about 12.2 volts so no charge is going to either battery , the fridge On 12 v volts flatterns the leisure battery  until the engine battery drops to 12.2 v then it charges the engine battery  up to about 12.4  not enough to charge leisure battery .I have a voltmeter connected to sig lighter socket it shows anything from 12.2 to 15 v  if I drive with fridge off the leisure holds its charge .I have considered the sterling  B toB  but have concerns about it conflicting with the CBE 200 electronics .I contacted sterling they said could not comment  on my system but think it should be ok ?. So no comeback on them if it frys my electronics,,.I have fitted a 100w solar panel which is a big help .as Charles sterling says on you tube videos. Not fit for purpose.


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## Canalsman (Jul 31, 2017)

I believe you're incorrect about the fridge when operated on 12 volts.

Three way fridges are always wired so that the 12 volt feed is provided directly by the vehicle alternator ...


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## Conroy (Jul 31, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> I take it these figures are taken during the day with the solar panel still connected to the battery. If so not a true reflection of the battery voltage. See what the readings are at night when you have no input from panel.



Did another check late last night as you suggested. First reading with fridge off was 12.92; then 12.45 with fridge on; then 12.67 with fridge off again. I'm guessing that the fact it was not much lower with the fridge on indicates the battery may be OK after all. OR DOES IT? Maybe that's too simplistic. As I've already said, I'm not very technical. 

I'd love the battery to be the problem, as I assume replacing it would be the simplest solution. I'm worried though that I might incur the expense and it makes no difference. A couple of people have mentioned that a battery can possibly seem ok when tested but still be faulty, by discharging too quickly. Maybe I need to pursue that, maybe even have a chat with the manager at ATS about it.

We're taking off at the end of August for several weeks, to Croatia and some of the Balkan countries, so I really hope I can get this problem sorted before then.


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## Conroy (Jul 31, 2017)

Alf said:


> By my reconning it will be a Renault 2.5 Euro 4 engine
> 
> Alf



The van is a Renault Master 2.5, 54 reg. Didn't know about the Euro rating so googled it and it seems it's Euro 3, as registered before 1 January 2005. Don't know if this makes any difference.


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## Conroy (Jul 31, 2017)

It has actually been tested now by 2 auto electricians and the AA man, when you say 'tested properly' I wonder if you mean some other kind of test. Maybe I will try Halfords though, no harm done.

I did also go back to ATS where I bought the battery, just 12 months ago. They tested it and said it was 'good' so couldn't change it under warranty. If it does turn out to be the battery I won't be going back there for a new one!


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## trevskoda (Jul 31, 2017)

POI Admin said:


> I believe you're incorrect about the fridge when operated on 12 volts.
> 
> Three way fridges are always wired so that the 12 volt feed is provided directly by the vehicle alternator ...



Not gt ,its run of the engine battery through a relay which is charged by the alt.


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## Conroy (Jul 31, 2017)

hairydog said:


> The reality is that what you have installed would _just_ be good enough if working perfectly. A 110Ah battery has a usable capacity of 66Ah. The fridge takes 5 amps when on. Assume it is only on 40% of the time. That means it uses 2A on average.
> 
> A motorhome with a gas fridge will normally have a 110Ah battery, so you can safely assume that at least half the capacity is not available for the fridge. So that means you have 33 amp hours available for something that uses 2 amps.
> 
> ...



I should explain it was at lest a couple of years ago that the leisure battery was running really well, lasting days without hook-up or driving, and it was a different battery then. The one in now is only 12 months old. 

I do have a multimeter and did some readings yesterday (see my posts to Fazerloz at 19.09 08.35). Do they give any indications?

The leisure battery does charge fine from driving. We can tell from the gauge on the PMS, which goes from a red light for lowest through 4 green lights up to highest, and of course by the fact the fridge then works fine, for a few hours anyway.

The fact is the electrical set-up is the same as it was when it worked fine, and as stated the battery is only 1 year old.

Re your post at 21.57: I must admit this is all very confusing to me. I think (from googling) the engine is Euro 3, but I don't know what difference this makes or if what you wrote is relevant to my van. Many thanks for your comments though.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 31, 2017)

OK  so test voltage with fridge OFF

Turn fridge ON test voltage repeat the test every hour for say 5 hours do this in the daytime so you should be getting some solar charge.

record the readings

Alf




Conroy said:


> Did another check late last night as you suggested. First reading with fridge off was 12.92; then 12.45 with fridge on; then 12.67 with fridge off again. I'm guessing that the fact it was not much lower with the fridge on indicates the battery may be OK after all. OR DOES IT? Maybe that's too simplistic. As I've already said, I'm not very technical.
> 
> I'd love the battery to be the problem, as I assume replacing it would be the simplest solution. I'm worried though that I might incur the expense and it makes no difference. A couple of people have mentioned that a battery can possibly seem ok when tested but still be faulty, by discharging too quickly. Maybe I need to pursue that, maybe even have a chat with the manager at ATS about it.
> 
> We're taking off at the end of August for several weeks, to Croatia and some of the Balkan countries, so I really hope I can get this problem sorted before then.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 31, 2017)

This is a compressor fridge not a 3 way fridge

Alf




POI Admin said:


> I believe you're incorrect about the fridge when operated on 12 volts.
> 
> Three way fridges are always wired so that the 12 volt feed is provided directly by the vehicle alternator ...


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## Conroy (Jul 31, 2017)

Alf said:


> OK  so test voltage with fridge OFF
> 
> Turn fridge ON test voltage repeat the test every hour for say 5 hours do this in the daytime so you should be getting some solar charge.
> 
> ...



Thanks Alf, will do that. It was pouring down earlier but the sun's just come out and hopefully it will stay brighter for a few hours. I'll post the readings later this afternoon.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 31, 2017)

Right so now we are talking about 2 different batteries,  what make and size was the first battery. We have the second battery as a 110A one what make.
 it is important to state all facts at the start of a thread requiring assistance not in dribs and drabs through the thread.

Alf






Conroy said:


> I should explain it was at lest a couple of years ago that the leisure battery was running really well, lasting days without hook-up or driving, and it was a different battery then. The one in now is only 12 months old.
> 
> I do have a multimeter and did some readings yesterday (see my posts to Fazerloz at 19.09 08.35). Do they give any indications?
> 
> ...


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## molly 2 (Jul 31, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Not gt ,its run of the engine battery through a relay which is charged by the alt.


 correct  but mine is a smart regen alternator very often the battery drops to 12.2 with the engine running voltage sensing relays kick in about 13 volts so the leisure battery gets nothing untill the engine ECU decides to wack up the voltage , if on hook up the Battery charger charge's the engine to about 12 .6. then the ECU cuts the alternator out until engines battery drops to about 12.2  then shoots the voltage up to  15  volts when going down hill ( regen mode ) .I wonder who will be the first to it alternator motor  to put some power into alternator to help drive the engine a bit like the old dynostarts .?


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## AllanD (Jul 31, 2017)

Alf said:


> Right so now we are talking about 2 different batteries,  what make and size was the first battery. We have the second battery as a 110A one what make.
> it is important to state all facts at the start of a thread requiring assistance not in dribs and drabs through the thread.
> 
> Alf



I was thinking along similar lines because I was unsure if ATS would supply leisure batteries and wondered if they have supplied a starter battery instead?

Sorry, just checked their website (which I should have done before posting), seemingly they do supply leisure batteries.


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## Conroy (Jul 31, 2017)

Alf said:


> Right so now we are talking about 2 different batteries,  what make and size was the first battery. We have the second battery as a 110A one what make.
> it is important to state all facts at the start of a thread requiring assistance not in dribs and drabs through the thread.
> 
> Alf



The current battery is a Platinum Leisure Plus 110 amps. Sorry, don't know the make of the previous battery but I'm fairly sure it was also a 110 amp one.


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## harrow (Jul 31, 2017)

Conroy said:


> The current battery is a Platinum Leisure Plus 110 amps. Sorry, don't know the make of the previous battery but I'm fairly sure it was also a 110 amp one.


Try to borrow another battery so you can compare them.


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## Deleted member 56601 (Jul 31, 2017)

If you do have to replace the battery and you have the space, I would seriously consider a couple of these 6volt batteries
T-125 Trojan Battery Deep Cycle (T125) - Industrial Batteries - Trojan Batteries
They are not cheap, but will give you 240ah and with a 175w solar panel and 30a b2b charger. they run my compressor fridge 365 days a year .


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## Conroy (Jul 31, 2017)

harrow said:


> Try to borrow another battery so you can compare them.



I'm definitely going to try that, need to talk to my brother-in-law when he gets back from holiday in his van. He's more technically minded than me so should be able to help.


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## Fazerloz (Jul 31, 2017)

One thing I do know from experience is that different battery manufacturers make vastly different quality of batteries. As said previously from batteries lasting as little as 6weeks to over 12mnths when overworked.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Jul 31, 2017)

Seems to be an Alpha battery with a 3 year guarantee, this may not be as good a battery as your last one.

There are many variables as to your battery condition,  have you been discharging it bellow 12v on many occasions if so this will be taking its toll carry out the test we talked about and lets see the results.

Alf


Conroy said:


> The current battery is a Platinum Leisure Plus 110 amps. Sorry, don't know the make of the previous battery but I'm fairly sure it was also a 110 amp one.


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## skippy (Jul 31, 2017)

Hi.
 I have the same set up Waeco 110 + Webasto but 490 amps batteries .Sorry but your batt is to low spec ,another major forum swears by Varta ldf range but varta spec for this range low to moderate usage only.
 Your fridge will take 50 amps daily without heating winter maybe 75 amps with heating this will quickly destroy your battery 
after continuous use.
 when I had my initial probs I was lucky enough to have my batteries tested by Yuasa factory close to me,  they completed 20 drop tests down to 10.6 volts and showed me the results including amp hour rating. This was treated as an exercise by themselves my batteries were replaced as a result foc. My batteries are the pro spec range 6v x 4. Initial problem incorrect charging was relying on solar to charge installed sterling b-b to give initial boost.
 I have 2200 watt solar this provides very little in winter but have just overhauled with victron mppt and changed wiring from parallel to series I guess time will tell if any difference .


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## skippy (Jul 31, 2017)

Sorry don't be shocked should have been 200 watt solar.


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## yorkslass (Jul 31, 2017)

Conroy said:


> That's interesting. So it could be some kind of fault that doesn't show up when tested in the standard way, which might explain why tests by 3 different people have not shown any problem. The question is, if it is indeed faulty how do I get ATS to change it under warranty if their test shows it as 'good'? Or maybe I will just have to buy another new one.
> 
> I would be interested to know if you find anything from your checking, if you don't mind.



My OH disconnected the batteries from the system and each other, we have four 84ah, then charged them separately. Checked 24 hrs later and seem to be ok. We think we probably overused them by just doing short trips, we have b2b and relied on that. Thinking about it, it was a stupid thing to do, but I'm claiming old age and a lot going on at the moment.The proof will be at Druridge, parked up for several days.


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## stonedaddy (Jul 31, 2017)

*Some handy info*

This is quiet a good read on batteries.

Battery Technology Advances mean big savings and better batteries for Caravans/Motorhomes

.... Tom ....


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## skippy (Jul 31, 2017)

As my previous reply Varta lfd starter light leisure use only for caravans - motorhomes as per Varta's own statement imho not suitable for 50 - 70 amps daily use,but still able to learn otherwise.


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## Canalsman (Jul 31, 2017)

Alf said:


> This is a compressor fridge not a 3 way fridge
> 
> Alf



Molly 2's fridge is a three-way ...


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## Conroy (Jul 31, 2017)

hairydog said:


> No, my comments about euro5 and euro6 only apply to newer vans. I misread 54 reg as 64 reg.
> If you have a multimeter, the rhing to do is check the vattery voltage at the battery terminals, not anywhere else, to be sure you're getting a true reading.
> As you have a solar panel, only check after dark to be sure that isnt interfering.
> Battery voltage rises as it being charged. If there is no load, it wil take up to 18 hours to drop back to its natural "charge state" voltage.
> ...



Thanks for that, very useful. I've actually been taking readings at intervals since this morning, with the fridge switched on, as suggested by Fazerloz. I appreciate what you say about the solar panel; the reading at 11 am was 12.57 and by 5 pm it had gone up gradually to 13.15. Also there has been quite a bit of sun today. This still puzzles me a bit though; I would have thought the fridge would be drawing more off than the solar panel is putting in; it may just be I'm not understanding this correctly. I'm going to carry on taking readings until late, as you say that will more useful. Also the pattern tends to be that it holds charge not too badly until dark and then drops quite rapidly, so that by bed-time the fridge has stopped working. 

I'll also do the other tests you suggest and take readings.


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## Livotlout (Jul 31, 2017)

HI conroy

I presume this a wet lead / acid battery, a test of the specific gravity would give some indication of charge, also show level of electrolyte.
A 'drop test ' as suggested by David would be a good idea.
Always recharge a battery as soon as possible.
Although you say the system worked at first, I would say as others have said this is a poorly balanced system.
I have two Trojan t105's , now into their fourth year, they are fed by 2 x100watt panels through a Xantrex C40 ( Fully adjustable to suit battery charging regime ) and a 180amp Allbright Contactor (controlled by a cheap Ring Smartcom) for split charging., this set up has enabled us to run a Waeco Coolbox compressor as a freezer for up to 3 months at a time with no EHU.

Alec.


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## Conroy (Aug 1, 2017)

Well I took multimeter readings all through the day yesterday as suggested and here they are. The first one is with the fridge off and then all the others are with it on. On the PMS there are lights that indicate the charge state of the battery, going from red at it's lowest through four green lights to the highest level. We refer to these as from 1 (red -lowest) to 5 (highest) so I have shown those as well. It hardly ever shows 5, only after being on EHU or driving for a long time. Bear in mind when I started taking the readings the van had not been on EHU or driven far for several days.

Time.           Reading.           PMS indicator light
09.50.           13.60.               4
11.05.           12.57.               4
12.10.           12.92.               4
1.15.             13.09.               4
2.30.             13.03.               4
3.35.             13.02.               4
4.45.             13.15.               4
6.15.             12.73.               3
8.15.             12.60.               3
9.25.             12.42.               3
10.30.           12.66.               3
11.55.           10.26.               1

I took 2 further readings this morning, which were:

09.15.           10.06.               1
11.00.           12.77.               4
12.30.           13.10.               4

Up to 10.30 last night I would think it's quite normal, but then why the sudden drop over less than 2 hours? That doesn't seem right to me. At 11.55 the fridge was actually still operating (usually by then it has gone off) but I imagine it will have gone off soon after. At 09.15 this morning it was on too, so it probably only went off for a few hours (the ice cubes were still solid, but then it hadn't been opened all night).

What I also don't understand is how it could go up again so quickly this morning, when the only power source is the solar panel. If these readings indicate anything to anyone, such as the battery's no good (despite several people testing it and saying it's ok), I would be very grateful to hear. Just one more thing; when the auto electrician in Kendal tested the battery he only did so during their normal working hours, so wouldn't have seen the sudden late night drop, so that might have led him to believe the battery was ok.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 1, 2017)

I would have suggested a specific gravity test myself as its probe the best test of a battery but I believe this is a sealed for life low maintenance battery. The latest test lead me to think this is a damaged or poor battery. 

Conroy could you repeat the tests at roughly the same time but have the hook up connected as well.

Alf




Livotlout said:


> HI conroy
> 
> I presume this a wet lead / acid battery, a test of the specific gravity would give some indication of charge, also show level of electrolyte.
> A 'drop test ' as suggested by David would be a good idea.
> ...


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## Conroy (Aug 1, 2017)

Alf said:


> I would have suggested a specific gravity test myself as its probe the best test of a battery but I believe this is a sealed for life low maintenance battery. The latest test lead me to think this is a damaged or poor battery.
> 
> Conroy could you repeat the tests at roughly the same time but have the hook up connected as well.
> 
> Alf



Gonna be out for quite a while today, but could do the tests on hook up tomorrow. What would that indicate, we don't of course have any problem on hook up?


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 1, 2017)

you should get both solar charge and hook up charge which will give the battery more charge see what that gives you as the solar drops. I still think your battery capacity has been reduced either by constantly dropping to a low voltage or just a faulty battery.

Alf



Conroy said:


> Gonna be out for quite a while today, but could do the tests on hook up tomorrow. What would that indicate, we don't of course have any problem on hook up?


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## molly 2 (Aug 1, 2017)

Conroy said:


> Well I took multimeter readings all through the day yesterday as suggested and here they are. The first one is with the fridge off and then all the others are with it on. On the PMS there are lights that indicate the charge state of the battery, going from red at it's lowest through four green lights to the highest level. We refer to these as from 1 (red -lowest) to 5 (highest) so I have shown those as well. It hardly ever shows 5, only after being on EHU or driving for a long time. Bear in mind when I started taking the readings the van had not been on EHU or driven far for several days.
> 
> Time.           Reading.           PMS indicator light
> 09.50.           13.60.               4
> ...


 if the Reading's are taken with solar connected you are getting Reading's from battery and solar  not just the battery  .or am I missing something.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 1, 2017)

No



molly 2 said:


> if the Reading's are taken with solar connected you are getting Reading's from battery and solar  not just the battery  .or am I missing something.


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## Fazerloz (Aug 1, 2017)

You are getting exactly the same symptoms as me. The solar panels are running the fridge through the day and putting a little back into the battery enough to run the fridge for a few hours then fail and shut your fridge down when it gets down to about 10.5v. When the compressor kicks in it causes a larger voltage drop than when it is actually running. Your battery could well read 12v making you think it should run the fridge but when it tries to start the comp the voltage will momentarily drop below 10.5 causing it to go into fault. If its anything like mine I can hear it cycling as the voltage comes back up and trying to start the comp again. As the sun comes up and starts to make your panel work it rapidly takes over from the battery and runs the fridge. The lights on the controller don't really show a state of charge in the battery just the voltage at that time whilst the panel is producing, hence the rapid rise but not shoving many amps into the battery.
When the battery was first put in it was able to stand more abuse. But when you are off grid for 5 days you are at a constant loss because your panel cant produce what you taking from your battery so you are slowly causing damage to the battery. What I would suspect would be the battery you removed was of a much higher quality than the battery you replaced it with, which enabled it to withstand the abuse longer. If like me with a PVC you will be very limited for space as to what or how many batteries you can fit in.
I don't know about your van but ours has a separate switch for the fridge so you can turn off the power through the night as no one opens the fridge door to conserve the battery a little until the sun comes up and the solar takes over. 
All this has been on you fridge consumption not taking into account  any of your other power requirements.
Ours started failing over the Christmas period in Scotland with 200w of solar and 140amp of batteries.
These are my thoughts only others may disagree.
I think your battery like mine is goosed. Buy a good quality battery. Which then opens up another can of worms.
Bit of a ramble hope it made a bit of sense.:cheers:


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## Sundance kid (Aug 1, 2017)

*sun dance kid*

Hi,
You say that the battery works fine when the fridge is isolated, therefore the logical outcome is the fault lies within the fridge.
Having been employed in the brewing industry for a large part of my working life, I can confirm that even if the thermostat appears to be working i.e. Turning the fridge on and of,that does not mean that the refrigerant aspect of the fridge is working at its optimum and may be using excessive amounts of energy to reach/maintain temp.
Just a thought.
Good luck even a replacement fridge is cheaper that replacing the MH.


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## Fazerloz (Aug 1, 2017)

Sundance kid said:


> Hi,
> You say that the battery works fine when the fridge is isolated, therefore the logical outcome is the fault lies within the fridge.
> Having been employed in the brewing industry for a large part of my working life, I can confirm that even if the thermostat appears to be working i.e. Turning the fridge on and of,that does not mean that the refrigerant aspect of the fridge is working at its optimum and may be using excessive amounts of energy to reach/maintain temp.
> Just a thought.
> Good luck even a replacement fridge is cheaper that replacing the MH.



By removing the fridge from the equation all you are saying is the battery can supply the other requirements which may be very little and possibly managed by a poor battery.


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## Canalsman (Aug 1, 2017)

Battery's knackered ...

I would be very insistent with ATS and tell them to conduct a proper extended load test on the battery.


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## Fazerloz (Aug 1, 2017)

POI Admin said:


> Battery's knackered ...
> 
> I would be very insistent with ATS and tell them to conduct a proper extended load test on the battery.




I dare bet they say they will have to send it back to the manufacturer.:mad1:


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## Conroy (Aug 1, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> You are getting exactly the same symptoms as me. The solar panels are running the fridge through the day and putting a little back into the battery enough to run the fridge for a few hours then fail and shut your fridge down when it gets down to about 10.5v. When the compressor kicks in it causes a larger voltage drop than when it is actually running. Your battery could well read 12v making you think it should run the fridge but when it tries to start the comp the voltage will momentarily drop below 10.5 causing it to go into fault. If its anything like mine I can hear it cycling as the voltage comes back up and trying to start the comp again. As the sun comes up and starts to make your panel work it rapidly takes over from the battery and runs the fridge. The lights on the controller don't really show a state of charge in the battery just the voltage at that time whilst the panel is producing, hence the rapid rise but not shoving many amps into the battery.
> When the battery was first put in it was able to stand more abuse. But when you are off grid for 5 days you are at a constant loss because your panel cant produce what you taking from your battery so you are slowly causing damage to the battery. What I would suspect would be the battery you removed was of a much higher quality than the battery you replaced it with, which enabled it to withstand the abuse longer. If like me with a PVC you will be very limited for space as to what or how many batteries you can fit in.
> I don't know about your van but ours has a separate switch for the fridge so you can turn off the power through the night as no one opens the fridge door to conserve the battery a little until the sun comes up and the solar takes over.
> All this has been on you fridge consumption not taking into account  any of your other power requirements.
> ...



Thanks, a very interesting and useful ramble. Sorry you're having similar problems but it does help when you find someone with the same experience, especially someone with more technical knowledge. I hadn't realised the solar panel could produce enough power to run the fridge, but that does make sense, how the extra going into the battery can keep the fridge going for a while but when that runs out the fridge goes off. That is exactly the pattern we get any day we're not on EHU. My misunderstanding of the lights on the controller hasn't helped, I understand now why they quickly rise in the morning as it doesn't actually show the state of charge in the battery, just the level of input.

I still don't get how various people can test the battery and say it's ok, but I'm thinking you're right and a new one is needed. A previous post gave a link to a battery technology page of "a and n caravans" website, which recommends Varta LFD90 or Bosch L5 batteries, as being much more efficient than other batteries. Maybe I should consider one of those. You're right I am limited for space so one more efficient battery would be better than trying to squeeze two in.

Yes there's a switch inside the fridge for turning it off. I suppose even with a new battery it may be worth switching it off overnight to try to to preserve the battery better. My only worry is that the fridge stays cold enough to keep the food inside still safe to eat. Sometimes when our fridge goes off late at night, or in the early morning hours, we find that next morning the ice cubes are still frozen, so I guess it maybe would be OK.


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## Conroy (Aug 1, 2017)

Sundance kid said:


> Hi,
> You say that the battery works fine when the fridge is isolated, therefore the logical outcome is the fault lies within the fridge.
> Having been employed in the brewing industry for a large part of my working life, I can confirm that even if the thermostat appears to be working i.e. Turning the fridge on and of,that does not mean that the refrigerant aspect of the fridge is working at its optimum and may be using excessive amounts of energy to reach/maintain temp.
> Just a thought.
> Good luck even a replacement fridge is cheaper that replacing the MH.



Interesting thought. We were beginning to suspect a faulty fridge ourselves, but from the replies on this thread I'm thinking a new and better battery may be required. If we did change the fridge I believe a 3 way would be preferable, more efficient in terms of battery usage anyway. I seem to recall though that someone told us we wouldn't be able to fit a 3 way fridge in our van, don't recall who though, we've spoken to so many people about this.


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## Deleted member 56601 (Aug 1, 2017)

If you read Waeco's details it quotes cut-off voltage as 10.4v on a 12volt system. If you have been dropping your battery this low then it has done the battery no good at all.
http://www.waecofridges.co.uk/pdf/coolmatic-mdc-manual.pdf see page 13


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## yorkslass (Aug 1, 2017)

Conroy said:


> Thanks, a very interesting and useful ramble. Sorry you're having similar problems but it does help when you find someone with the same experience, especially someone with more technical knowledge. I hadn't realised the solar panel could produce enough power to run the fridge, but that does make sense, how the extra going into the battery can keep the fridge going for a while but when that runs out the fridge goes off. That is exactly the pattern we get any day we're not on EHU. My misunderstanding of the lights on the controller hasn't helped, I understand now why they quickly rise in the morning as it doesn't actually show the state of charge in the battery, just the level of input.
> 
> I still don't get how various people can test the battery and say it's ok, but I'm thinking you're right and a new one is needed. A previous post gave a link to a battery technology page of "a and n caravans" website, which recommends Varta LFD90 or Bosch L5 batteries, as being much more efficient than other batteries. Maybe I should consider one of those. You're right I am limited for space so one more efficient battery would be better than trying to squeeze two in.
> 
> Yes there's a switch inside the fridge for turning it off. I suppose even with a new battery it may be worth switching it off overnight to try to to preserve the battery better. My only worry is that the fridge stays cold enough to keep the food inside still safe to eat. Sometimes when our fridge goes off late at night, or in the early morning hours, we find that next morning the ice cubes are still frozen, so I guess it maybe would be OK.



The info on that website makes interesting reading. If ours need replacing, we will be looking at those batteries.I seem to recall that Trev rates them on that thread.


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## Fazerloz (Aug 1, 2017)

Given the choice I would pick a three way fridge. But when we bought the van either stupidly or naively I didn't ask the question and assumed it was 3 way. But as a fridge it is as good as the one at home, as long as you can keep it supplied with electricity. There again it will never run my gas bottle empty leaving me without fridge, heating and cooking. Everything is a compromise and when everything is working well life is good. Even as I type this I m convincing myself the compressor fridge is the better option. After all how many threads are there on 3 ways not working.


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## Fazerloz (Aug 1, 2017)

Conroy said:


> Yes there's a switch inside the fridge for turning it off. I suppose even with a new battery it may be worth switching it off overnight to try to to preserve the battery better. My only worry is that the fridge stays cold enough to keep the food inside still safe to eat. Sometimes when our fridge goes off late at night, or in the early morning hours, we find that next morning the ice cubes are still frozen, so I guess it maybe would be OK.



We have a switch on the outside of the fridge tucked away in a cupboard to turn off the fridge that way you don't have to open the door and let out the cold to turn off the switch. If you have ice in the freezer compartment you will have nothing to worry about temp wise overnight.
With our Waeco CR65 they are in reality only a 12v fridge. The 240v side feeds a totally separate 12v supply unit which then feeds the fridge. In fact when you find the supply unit, usually at the back of the fridge it even has a cigarette lighter type socket in it.


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## eddyt (Aug 1, 2017)

hi
  a battery can test out at under 80% and still be classed as ok.
  so they will not change it. i just checked one of my batteries with
  my snap on electronic tester and it said  80%  battery good.
 all you can do is really pull the guts out your battery by leaving a big
  load on it for days so it is really goosed then take it back towhere you got it.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 1, 2017)

Yes but a better Question is

How many 3 way fridges are there compared with the compressor fridge and how may are 30 + years old, a very small percentage faulty and mostly easy to fix.


Alf



Fazerloz said:


> Given the choice I would pick a three way fridge. But when we bought the van either stupidly or naively I didn't ask the question and assumed it was 3 way. But as a fridge it is as good as the one at home, as long as you can keep it supplied with electricity. There again it will never run my gas bottle empty leaving me without fridge, heating and cooking. Everything is a compromise and when everything is working well life is good. Even as I type this I m convincing myself the compressor fridge is the better option. After all how many threads are there on 3 ways not working.


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## Fazerloz (Aug 1, 2017)

Alf said:


> Yes but a better Question is
> 
> How many 3 way fridges are there compared with the compressor fridge and how may are 30 + years old, a very small percentage faulty and mostly easy to fix.
> 
> ...



Quite true, but are we now seeing the start of the demise of the 3 way. More and more new vans are getting comp fridges. I would imagine they could be cheaper to make and certainly a lot cheaper to install.


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## sparrks (Aug 1, 2017)

Conroy

I haven't had time to read all the replies but to me assuming the battery is good it sounds like a charging problem. Have you disconnected the battery and charged it with a good 4 way charger over 24hrs? If so how long did the battery last with the battery fully charged and reconnected with the fridge running? Reading a few of your earliest posts it seems like the Solar input maybe giving you false readings because a flat battery if healthy will not fully charge as quick as you are implying.


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## molly 2 (Aug 1, 2017)

Has anyone fitted a small domestic fridge running of an Inverter,    fraction of the cost 12 v compressor fridge  ,as featured in Sterlings fridge comparison test u tube .


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## wildebus (Aug 1, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> We have a switch on the outside of the fridge tucked away in a cupboard to turn off the fridge that way you don't have to open the door and let out the cold to turn off the switch. If you have ice in the freezer compartment you will have nothing to worry about temp wise overnight.
> With our Waeco CR65 they are in reality only a 12v fridge. The 240v side feeds a totally separate 12v supply unit which then feeds the fridge. In fact when you find the supply unit, usually at the back of the fridge it even has a cigarette lighter type socket in it.


Not sure if relevant to this post, but a handy way to confirm your fridge is working consistently and not blowing hot and cold is to freeze some water in a small container lying on its side in your home freezer, then put it upright in the MH freezer. If the ice stays on the side, it stays on; If the ice is at the bottom, it warmed up and then cooled again.

FWIW, I find my Waeco CRX-50 is fine and stays on 24/7 and I never plug into hookup.  The 200W solar array feeds a 200Ah battery bank and that is enough to maintain power, even up here in Scotland (I do turn the Fridge off in November though as don't use it from then until the spring)


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