# Chemical Disposal Points



## Dave Preston (May 26, 2013)

I have just returned form a fantastic trip to the Outer Hebrides in my camper. Wild camping is no problem, taking on water is not bad but finding places to dispose of the toilet contents is not so easy. As far as I could ascertain there is 1 CDP on Harris and 1 on Lewis, which we used. We had to go on sites 2 nights for this reason; I also asked a number of sites if we could pay to dispose of toilet waste and they refused, and one owwner explained that he is entitled to 1 pickup per year and if he has another he has to pay £500-750. Most public toilets have signs asking people not to dispose of chemical toilet waste as it may damage the environment and are community funded, which I respect.

How about a CDP POI database? I can add 2


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## dave and mary (May 26, 2013)

Years ago you dug a hole and emptied your cassette in it filled up the hole and put a few stones on the top, is this not ok now ?    :drive:  :drive:


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## Wooie1958 (May 26, 2013)

We`ve recently been over to Harris and Lewis and only found " 1 Official CDP " at the Ferry Terminal at Leverburgh.

That was thanks to a Bus Driver on the car park in Tarbert because when we asked at the T.I.C. it drew a blank.


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## Smaug (May 26, 2013)

Long distance busses carry chemical loos, so all their terminals must be able to dispose of waste, & I suspect that many M-way services should too. In addition the Canal & Waterways Trust (formerly British Waterways) have disposal points along the canals which are accessible by purchasing the key from CWT.  

Most towns will have a "Hazardous Waste disposal" company, maybe they will take our waste - for a fee. The sort of companies that drain you car tank when you fill with the wrong fuel, or deal with industrial waste spills.

None of this helps you in places like Scottish Islands tho! 

If anyone is near us (ST21 6HN; OI785 284 45O) then I wouldn't object to them using our septic tank as I do myself - but clearly this can only be available to a few people as we are off the beaten track, parking is difficult & too many cassetttes with chemicals in will kill the bugs in it.

I'll bet we have a few members dotted around the country that might be able to offer something similar.

Getting back to the original situation, it is likely that the Hebridean toilets will get a lot of vans emptying waste with chemicals in it which will damage the treatment plants. But lots of people on here suggest using Bio washing powder or no additives at all, either of those alternatives would reduce the potential damage & may also make burying less damaging. It is within living memory that many homes (mine included) used an earth closet in the garden as a toilet & we were still digging latrine trenches on rural Scout camps in the 1980's.


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## Wooie1958 (May 26, 2013)

Smaug said:


> Long distance busses carry chemical loos, so all their terminals must be able to dispose of waste, & I suspect that many M-way services should too. *In addition the Canal & Waterways Trust (formerly British Waterways) have disposal points along the canals which are accessible by purchasing the key from CWT.  *
> 
> Most towns will have a "Hazardous Waste disposal" company, maybe they will take our waste - for a fee. The sort of companies that drain you car tank when you fill with the wrong fuel, or deal with industrial waste spills.
> 
> ...




I think you`ll find it`s the *Canal & River Trust ( CRT )* and not Waterways as you say.

See Here   :-  Canal & River Trust


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## Wooie1958 (May 26, 2013)

Whist on Harris and Lewis i lost count of the number times we saw in Laybys and Gutters where people had emptied their cassettes.


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## Smaug (May 26, 2013)

Wooie1958 said:


> Whist on Harris and Lewis i lost count of the number times we saw in Laybys and Gutters where people had emptied their cassettes.



That's appalling & not what I saw when I was there a few years back. Is this the rise in hire vans I wonder, where people have no understanding of, or training about, the problems we can cause to the communities we visit?

This is the sort of thing that will get us banned from the islands. It needs some high profile convictions of people perpetrating that sort of abuse. My wife has just told me that wild camping HAS ben banned on at least one of the islands & while you are free to go anywhere during the day, you MUST stop overnight on an offical campsite. 

Mind you, I doubt even that would stop that sort of behaviour, as such people would probably just dump when it fills & never check when it is getting near full. We carry a spare cassette in the shower so it is easy to switch cassettes at a moment's notice but you then have a couple of days to empty the full cassette in a more suitable place.


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## TWS (May 26, 2013)

TBH I don't use any blue loo liquid in my toilet and can't see a problem with just flushing the contents down a normal bog standard loo when or if you find one, with the owners permission of course. Am I in a minority ? I'm up in Scotland at the moment and ain't had a problem yet, I try to avoid sites as it just isn't my thing but I would happily pay a few quid to empty my loo and top my water tanks up.


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## maingate (May 26, 2013)

I can empty my cassette in a public toilet without making a mess.

What is wrong with that? When we get home from a trip, I empty it down my own toilet in the house. I see no difference.

I also carry a folding shovel but have only needed to bury waste once.


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## Deleted member 967 (May 26, 2013)

Burial is still an accepted way by Natural England with the land owners permission.

We use an SSSI site in the south lake and burial of toilet waste in the back dunes is specified in the management agreement.   Done properly it is no hazard.   This also goes for spreading grey water over areas where people will not walk, such as along hedge lines.

Quote from Natural England

For touring other than on sites equipped with toilets, will carry his/her own sanitary equipment (usually chemical closet and approved related fluid) and dispose of the contents only at a point provided for the purpose.  If burial is necessary, as perhaps on private property, this will not be done in the vicinity of any water course.  Avoids damage to turf by digging holes only when absolutely necessary, and replacing turf where possible.

Allows no waste water from the caravan to foul the ground, ensures that suitable receptacles are connected to the waste water pipes to collect the waste, and the receptacles emptied as necessary.  In the few instances where no disposal point is provided, * minimum fouling is achieved by distributing the water over a considerable area, as along a hedge*

end quote


John


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## Dave Preston (May 26, 2013)

*Cdp*

My thoughts:-
The other CDP on the Outer Hebrides is on the causeway East of Stornoway.

We did empty our casette into a public toilet once, but some have signs asking you not to - the issue is they often drain to a septic tank which a local community has to pay to have drained and if a lot of wild campers do this it seems unfair. I would gladly pay, but as we found out, other than paying the full campsite fee this may prove difficult.


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## maingate (May 26, 2013)

Dave Preston said:


> My thoughts:-
> The other CDP on the Outer Hebrides is on the causeway East of Stornoway.
> 
> We did empty our casette into a public toilet once, but some have signs asking you not to - the issue is they often drain to a septic tank which a local community has to pay to have drained and if a lot of wild campers do this it seems unfair. I would gladly pay, but as we found out, other than paying the full campsite fee this may prove difficult.



Fit a SOG.

You do not need to add chemicals to the toilet cassette.


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## Wooie1958 (May 26, 2013)

Smaug said:


> That's appalling & not what I saw when I was there a few years back. *Is this the rise in hire vans I wonder*, where people have no understanding of, or training about, the problems we can cause to the communities we visit?
> 
> This is the sort of thing that will get us banned from the islands. It needs some high profile convictions of people perpetrating that sort of abuse. My wife has just told me that wild camping HAS ben banned on at least one of the islands & while you are free to go anywhere during the day, you MUST stop overnight on an offical campsite.
> 
> Mind you, I doubt even that would stop that sort of behaviour, as such people would probably just dump when it fills & never check when it is getting near full. We carry a spare cassette in the shower so it is easy to switch cassettes at a moment's notice but you then have a couple of days to empty the full cassette in a more suitable place.





I was quite amazed at the amount " Hire Vans " that we saw this last time in Scotland.

I would say it was nearly 50% of the vans we saw and the majority had "Damage " of one description or another with most of it being on the Near Side and in
particular at the rear.

The worst was one we saw arrive on the front in Arbroath had the whole bottom rear corner, lights and all missing.


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## Val54 (May 28, 2013)

*CDP's Outer Hebrides*

Just back from 4 weeks in the Highlands and Islands and we noticed a large number of hire vans, particularly around Mallaig and Fort William. The CDP'S in Lewis and Harris are limited the two, Leverburgh Pier and Breighe Beach car park behind the toilet block unless anyone has found another? Didn't notice any particular evidence of untoward cassette emptying and certainly the locals were very hospitable. The West Harris Trust encourages wild camping and there are at least 3 parking spots in stunning locations where you can park up. They ask for a £5 donation which can be made online via Paypal.


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## Cliffy (May 28, 2013)

maingate said:


> I can empty my cassette in a public toilet without making a mess.
> 
> What is wrong with that? When we get home from a trip, I empty it down my own toilet in the house. I see no difference.
> 
> I also carry a folding shovel but have only needed to bury waste once.




I suspect that it could damage the working of a sceptic tank if non-biodegradable/toxic toilet fluid is put down toilets on a regular basis. we empty ours at Home but we are on main drains.

Maybe we should start a POI toilet dump network for forum users I would be happy to allow Motorhomers to empty there toilets down my drains. All that would be needed would a list showing the post code and house number of users willing to take part in the network.


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## cipro (May 28, 2013)

*Chemy stuff*

The green chemical is more echo friendly and I have been to a couple of MOTORHOME shoew namely a race course in the north and they only except green stuff in ther portable waste containers


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## Smaug (May 28, 2013)

Cliffy said:


> I suspect that it could damage the working of a sceptic tank if non-biodegradable/toxic toilet fluid is put down toilets on a regular basis. we empty ours at Home but we are on main drains.
> 
> Maybe we should start a POI toilet dump network for forum users I would be happy to allow Motorhomers to empty there toilets down my drains. All that would be needed would a list showing the post code and house number of users willing to take part in the network.



I empty my cassette into my septic tank perhaps 2-3 times in a year. I use a smalll amount of blue Elsan or similar in it. The tanks is big (1,000ltrs settlement tank plus another 1,000ltrs soakaway) and has not shown any ill effects. 

Others on here have told of severe damage to public sewage systems caused by emptying chemical loos down public toilets.


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## maingate (May 28, 2013)

Cliffy said:


> I suspect that it could damage the working of a sceptic tank if non-biodegradable/toxic toilet fluid is put down toilets on a regular basis. we empty ours at Home but we are on main drains.
> 
> Maybe we should start a POI toilet dump network for forum users I would be happy to allow Motorhomers to empty there toilets down my drains. All that would be needed would a list showing the post code and house number of users willing to take part in the network.



You are correct Cliffy. That is why I find my SOG to be beneficial. All motorhomes should have them built in as standard.

I do tend to use a little Bio liquid to give it a bit of perfume though.


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## james1508 (May 29, 2013)

cipro said:


> The green chemical is more echo friendly and I have been to a couple of MOTORHOME shoew namely a race course in the north and they only except green stuff in ther portable waste containers



We do the same , more expensive but should be no come back !  cost around £12 for 1.5 ltr if you shop around . http://goo.gl/maps/DsgVO  the TIC also have a point for emptying too on Uist. Its noted on the Water POI.

James


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## robbie1003 (May 29, 2013)

I use bio tabs from aldi if im wild camping, gives you a option to dispose in a more sensative area if disposal point isn't available. See the point reguarding septic tanks, something that never crossed my mind.


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## Deleted member 17269 (May 30, 2013)

I've always been confused by this problem. 
It would seem that CDP's are connected to the "foul water" system. i.e. EXACTLY the same pipe as takes away all the sewerage and waste water (not rainwater). So there is no problem with just emptying it down the toilet provided the pipe only goes to the sewerage plant.:ninja:


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## Smaug (May 30, 2013)

That ued to be my view, until someone posted on here that he'd seen ssewage treatment plants brought to their knees by chemical loo's being emptied into them. You have to remember that a treatment plant relies on bacterial action to treat the waste with filter beds to let the liquid drain away.

EDIT:
I have just ben looking at the Elsan site. Elsan Blue is clearly identified as "Anti-bacterial" and so could affect septic tanks or sewage plants. Bio products seem to be the way forward & I will not be buying any more toilet blue treatments.


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## vwalan (May 30, 2013)

a


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## vwalan (May 30, 2013)

hi. most cdp,s certainly on campsites are not connected to the mains . they are totally seperaste . these have to be emptied with tankers and the disposal is strict. 
many not all campsites have their own sewage systems . these regularly get messed up if folk tip into the toilets and not the cdp. 
the ones that dont have their own have to be careful as if in a village area away from a biggish town .then the chemical waste spoils the village sewer . that can be traced back to the campsite and a fine as to be paid . 
as a sewage tanker driver we also had limited sewage works we could tip the waste from chemical tanks . very often only allowed to tip if an operator was available to make sure the ph of the works could take the tipping . 
i was trained to be able to tip outside working hours on unmanned sites.View attachment 14313
heres the certificate i had to carry to show at sites if someone turned up .its a very strict concern is sewage and water works . 
i have seen a few sewage works spoilt by other things as well , inks from factories . its amazing what can cause so much disaster yet seem so little . 
also seen many home septics spoilt by dish washers and washing machines being plumbed into the septic instead of soak aways.


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## Deleted member 17269 (Jun 1, 2013)

Got my info from the following web site who are funded by the following "The Green Blue is funded by:

The British Marine Federation, the Royal Yachting Association, The Crown Estate's Marine Stewardship Fund and Scottish Natural Heritage."


Best Practice Sewage


Disposal of chemical toilet waste

    Dispose of any collected chemical toilet waste in either* the foul sewer* or a centralised waste collection/disposal facility (such as a chemical toilet disposal point)
    If a collection point is used, bulk sewage can be collected by suitably licensed road tankers.
    Do not allow chemical toilet waste to be accepted at stations served by septic tanks and package sewage treatment plants. The chemicals can harm the micro-organisms responsible for treating the sewage.


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## Dave Preston (Sep 14, 2013)

*Summary*

As the original poster I will add my thoughts.
I only use bio chemicals, washing up liquid and shower gel now. If a sign asks to not empty chemical toilets I will not do it. In the one that I did use I felt guilty as I think it was a local community public toilet.
I would fit a SOG but I don't have a plumbed in toilet, it's a free standing Thetford chemical toilet so presumably this wouldn't work? I have looked at it and it may be possible though I would have to put another hole in the van, which I don't really want to do. I am also slightly concerned that SOGS do take the smell outside, so could be unpleasant for yourself or others, and there is also the fact that the contents do not get broken down at all. I suppose I will stick with visiting a site when required, unless I can find a CDP. On that note I think it would be worth having POIs for them?

Dave


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## maingate (Sep 14, 2013)

Halfords recently advertised a brand of Loo Blue liquid, it was on offer and dirt cheap. When I checked the offer, it contained 24% Formaldehyde.

At that concentration, I am surprised that Obama is not bombing Halfords stores as it is almost a chemical weapon. :scared:


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## BrianG (Sep 14, 2013)

I am 100% with maingate on this one. On both of my last two vans I have improvised my own sog at minimal cost and never looked back. A micro switch, computer cooling fan, washing machine outlet pipe and a littlebit of thoght. No problem, empty it down any loo. Radar key very useful. My wife, though not registered disabled, can't walk very far so I problems having one. 
         Brian


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## sagart (Sep 14, 2013)

Wooie1958 said:


> Whist on Harris and Lewis i lost count of the number times we saw in Laybys and Gutters where people had emptied their cassettes.


Did this come from Snopes?

I've lived here for 14 years and go, practically every month, to Lewis and Harris as well as the Uists.
In that time I have never seen or heard of this being done nor has there been any local comments to me in English or Gaelic of anyone being aware of it.
Perhaps you are confusing this with the almost as nasty practice of discharging grey waste?
Every tourist office has an official leaflet giving the sites where cassettes can be emptied, some provide by the Comhllaire, some by Calmac at ferry terminals.


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## champstar (Sep 14, 2013)

Never had a problem last year on the islands, as mentioned the TIO has leaflets especially for motorhomes telling the water and CDP points.

C'mon it is no hassle to drive a few miles to find an emptying point especially on the Outer Hebrides...they are not that big islands


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## Deleted member 967 (Sep 14, 2013)

Dave Preston said:


> As the original poster I will add my thoughts.
> I only use bio chemicals, washing up liquid and shower gel now. If a sign asks to not empty chemical toilets I will not do it. In the one that I did use I felt guilty as I think it was a local community public toilet.
> I would fit a SOG but I don't have a plumbed in toilet, it's a free standing Thetford chemical toilet so presumably this wouldn't work? I have looked at it and it may be possible though I would have to put another hole in the van, which I don't really want to do. I am also slightly concerned that SOGS do take the smell outside, so could be unpleasant for yourself or others, and there is also the fact that the contents do not get broken down at all. I suppose I will stick with visiting a site when required, unless I can find a CDP. On that note I think it would be worth having POIs for them?
> 
> Dave



Hi Dave

In our SOG the contents do get broken down.  The chemicals act only as a preservative and perfumer, nature will break down solids into a liquid if given time.

We keep a nappy bucket for wee and limit the amount of liquid going into the cassette while wilding.  Wee and waste water can be got rid of easier than toilets contents.  I have a cassette bidet in the bowl unless doing No.2s

With 2 of us we can go 7 to 10 days wilding without emptying the cassette and the contents just flow out as a thick liquid.  I do use Bio liquid and the cassette acts like a septic tank.  It is the stale urine (ammonia) that makes the most smell not toilet solids.  

There is a charcoal filter in the outlet of a genuine SOG that reduces the smell.  In normal use we don't notice any, even with the safari room on, unless the filter needs replacing (normally do this every year).   They also do a roof vent kit so the smell would blow away well above nose level.


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## BrianG (Sep 14, 2013)

On our homemade sogs we have never noticed any smells, nor have we noticed any wrinkling of neighbors noses.
I agree urine causes most unpleasant smells and is to be avoided in the cassette when possible. No filter on ours.


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## philstoke (Sep 14, 2013)

you are probably helping the plant life as well, diluted washing up liquid is what you can use on plants in the garden to help kill whitefly etc without being toxic
Another thought, what about all the people cleaning their cars in the street with all sort of different chemicals running into the drains, nobody complains about that practice being unlawful


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## whitevanwoman (Sep 14, 2013)

I think a CDP map would be good as I can't really use campsites unless I take a tent with my van not being an "acceptable" campervan.

I'd be happy to allow people to use the sewer under the manhole in my back yard and cold water hose but access to my house is tricky for bigger vehicles, and parking is difficult because the parking spaces are all on private land to the front and needed by the occupants, and it is only a single lane so no roadside parking. But as my sewer is in the back yard, accessible by the back lane, you could park up there for half an hour to empty, replen water etc. There is alternative access via the front lane so unless that is blocked too, people are fairly tolerant of loading / unloading at the back, so long as it's not for too long. 

You'd have to let me know before hand, ideally a couple of days in advance to make sure I'm either around or to arrange access if I'm not (I have a combination lock so no key needed but I would need to make sure the gate isn't locked from the inside).

Obviously I'd have to be mindful of my neighbours and might have to rescind this offer at a future time if the neighbours weren't happy or if there was too much demand. But certainly I'd be happy to help in emergencies. Only a mile from the M6 so hardly off route at all if heading north / south through Cumbria.


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## sagart (Sep 14, 2013)

Harleydavidsdad said:


> Really???
> 
> What on Earth do you shower in, or do your dishes in???
> 
> Old bath/dishwater does minimal harm to anything living unless administered intravenously.



To clarify...aesthetically displeasing when done in public as it used to be, for example, in Cary Park, Torquay.
Down a drain fine, or even, as the Caravan Club suggests, along the length of a hedge.
But not, as I have seen even on Skye, from a motorhome directly onto the tarmac of a carpark.
Why antagonise onlookers?


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## BrianG (Sep 14, 2013)

sagart said:


> To clarify...aesthetically displeasing when done in public as it used to be, for example, in Cary Park, Torquay.
> Down a drain fine, or even, as the Caravan Club suggests, along the length of a hedge.
> But not, as I have seen even on Skye, from a motorhome directly onto the tarmac of a carpark.
> Why antagonise onlookers?



You are hitting the nail right on the head. It does look bad and gives all of us a bad reputation. There are always places out of the public view. There should be no problem with grey water. I was even asked by one CL campsite owner to spread it along his newly planted hedge plants
As said before fit a sog or at least ditch the smelly old blue stuff.


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## jimpy001 (Jun 2, 2014)

*Natural England*



John Thompson said:


> Burial is still an accepted way by Natural England with the land owners permission.
> 
> We use an SSSI site in the south lake and burial of toilet waste in the back dunes is specified in the management agreement.   Done properly it is no hazard.   This also goes for spreading grey water over areas where people will not walk, such as along hedge lines.
> 
> ...





I would not trust Natural England to give any advice on anything related to the environment whatsoever

please see

Why Andrew Sells is the wrong choice for Natural England | George Monbiot | Environment | theguardian.com


and

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/877/675/729/dont-let-them-kill-the-birds-and-destroy-their-eggs/


please feel free to sign and disptribute the latter, otherwise the point of camping to see any sort of natural environment will become a thing of the past

Thanks

Jim


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## funkyronster (Jun 6, 2014)

*common sense*

I think there's a lot of over reaction to this perennial discussion.

Points to consider - 

Millions of farm and wild animals do their stuff, and most of it goes into the soil and water table. Animals reared in factories....slurry, and guess where that goes! 

Outdoor events - festivals and sporting events - have thousands of those plastic thunderboxes, which are full of the blue stuff. Each one of them I bet contains at least 6 Thetford cassettes worth! It all gets tankered to the local sewage plant. I bet Glastonbury alone generates more effluent than the entire annual activities of ALL the motorhomes in this country.

The best thing I ever did was get tools to pull up manhole covers. I also use public toilets, and leave them as I find them.

Of course it is wrong, but pragmatically pollution does occur by accident into our rivers and seas by others. In the grand scheme of things I think what motorhome pollution does occur is very small.

Bad news about Harris.....but that sounds like a localised problem.


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