# Wallasey / New Brighton stopover under threat



## Lodclwyd

Hi all,

Looks like the local moaners are about to have their way with respect to the promenade stop-over at Wallasey. See attached documents. I really can't understand what the problem is, as the spot is well away from everything. The crazy thing is that the restricted parking is only in a small area so the vans will just be able to move along a bit to avoid it. Looks imminent.


View attachment campervan council notes.pdfView attachment campervan update.pdfView attachment campervan map wallasey.pdf


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## maureenandtom

It's worth reading Are we public enemy in the eyes of councils? and the comments on:

Residents' anger over camper van owners | Wirral Globe

There was to have been something provided for us - and it looked like the council was sympathetic towards motorhomes.  This from a previous report to the council.







This will have been scuppered, not by the public, but by interested councillors.  The public shows remarkably little antagonism towards motorhomes and if the public has done so here it will be a first.


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## phillybarbour

It’s a great spot let’s see what area in covers.


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## Fisherman

One Motorhomer must have forgot to pick up the mess that the youngsters partying through the night left in the morning. You know the same youngsters who will still be able to use the facilities.  Sorry I know some don’t agree, but get used to it. The more this kind of thing carries on the more other councils will take notice and follow suit.

And what are we doing, no more than having a chat about it, some even stating it’s what we deserve.

Sorry but I just get so pissed of with this.


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## trevskoda

On a legal point the wording on signage will not stand up if printed without a court agreement,and may i point out we use motorcaravans so if they print the wrong thing its not of any use.


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## landoboguy

I was there again the other night. I visit regularly. Some of the vans/caravans/converted buses  there have been there well over 3 months, some 6 months or more, and are in a right mess, caravans look like theyve never been washed perished half flat tyres and vans that look like they wouldnt pass an mot next time round if life depended on it.

Dont lets sit here and think because we are responsible everyone is. One guy virtually lives there full time and goes to work each day from his caravan and his place is a proper sh*thole.

I could see this coming this year with the state of some folk, and yes some of them DO leave rubbish hanging out of the already full bins to fall on the street, Ive witnessed it.
Starting to look like a rough camp site in places Im afraid 

On another note, I wonder whether the highways will do anything to stop the D**heads in the ford escort cosworth circa 1992 and the astras that regularly use it as a racetrack. Probably not, as that would mean far more money in traffic calming measures rather than signs to deter MH folk.


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## Fisherman

landoboguy said:


> I was there again the other night. I visit regularly. Some of the vans/caravans/converted buses  there have been there well over 3 months, some 6 months or more, and are in a right mess, caravans look like theyve never been washed perished half flat tyres and vans that look like they wouldnt pass an mot next time round if life depended on it.
> 
> Dont lets sit here and think because we are responsible everyone is. One guy virtually lives there full time and goes to work each day from his caravan and his place is a proper sh*thole.
> 
> I could see this coming this year with the state of some folk, and yes some of them DO leave rubbish hanging out of the already full bins to fall on the street, Ive witnessed it.
> Starting to look like a rough camp site in places Im afraid
> 
> On another note, I wonder whether the highways will do anything to stop the D**heads in the ford escort cosworth circa 1992 and the astras that regularly use it as a racetrack. Probably not, as that would mean far more money in traffic calming measures rather than signs to deter MH folk.



Well surely if you can see this so can the authorities.

These you describe have got nothing to do with us, we should not be talking about them in the same breath.
If we had a vetted organisation they would not be welcome, but unfortunately we don't.

But as you say the council look for the broad sweep and the cheap an easy way out.

It has to change.


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## malagaoth

Hurray! landoboguy at least 'gets it'!

Not every motorhome is owned by a stalwart of society, not every motorhome is a thing of beauty.

SOME motorhomers are dirty, irresponsible and do unpleasant things.

the fact that there was no 'tangible evidence' of people emptying black waste into the sea is not evidnece that it doesnt happen - even the most feckless motorhome owner is not going to do it in full view of the locals and once its hit the sea its 'gone' .



> These you describe have got nothing to do with us, we should not be talking about them in the same breath



great, what do you propose, post 2000 Hymer A class motor homes only?  no motorhomes older than 2000? no scruffy motorhomes?   no motorhomes owned by scruffy people? (who decides what is scruffy?)

To people that dont do motorhoming a motorhome is a motor home is a motorhome!  they dont differentiate between a £100 000N&B gin palace and a badly self converted 40 yearold Bedford horse box - and why should they?


Last October I stayed in  large holiday site - £1 per night special offer - not my usual choice but hey it was well placed and £1 per night! less than 100 yards from the entrance parked in a layby alongside a major road was a caravan by the state of it and the area around it it had been there a while - it was certainly there when I arrived and when I left a few days later.

I have to wonder where it was dumping its waste!


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## landoboguy

Fisherman said:


> Well surely if you can see this so can the authorities.
> 
> These you describe have got nothing to do with us, we should not be talking about them in the same breath.
> If we had a vetted organisation they would not be welcome, but unfortunately we don't.
> 
> But as you say the council look for the broad sweep and the cheap an easy way out.
> 
> It has to change.



Oh and not to mention the bufoons in a nice new Kon Tiki black edition,(at least 70k worth)  on the Saturday of bonfire night. WAIT FOR IT!!!

4 adults and 4 kids (ish) right at the side of the road, gets out a fire pit.grate, light the "bonfire" and its right on the path, the cycleway part, tins of beer out, and kids with sparklers dad sets fireworks off into the night sky, not 20 yds from me. ON THE PAVEMENT FCS.

And yes I think we should be talking about these people in the same breath, in the hopes they are on, or stumble across this site and see what people think of the behaviour, ruining it for everyone.
No one is holier than tho where I stand. We cant be the motorhome police, but hope our attitude rubs off on others.


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## antiquesam

Fisherman said:


> Well surely if you can see this so can the authorities.
> 
> These you describe have got nothing to do with us, we should not be talking about them in the same breath.
> If we had a vetted organisation they would not be welcome, but unfortunately we don't.
> 
> But as you say the council look for the broad sweep and the cheap an easy way out.
> 
> It has to change.



Are you suggesting that people would have to be vetted before being allowed to buy a motorhome, or convert a van? Would my van be scrapped because it is 24 years old? Who would police this scheme?


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## landoboguy

The fact is, wherever you go in society there will always be those ruining it.


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## Fisherman

I was referring to people spending months in the one place.

It appears that you are all ok with what’s happening not only here but on a regular basis throughout the country.


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## Fisherman

antiquesam said:


> Are you suggesting that people would have to be vetted before being allowed to buy a motorhome, or convert a van? Would my van be scrapped because it is 24 years old? Who would police this scheme?



Are you having a laugh.

I was referring to the people who spend months at one location and who don’t follow the rules that decent people follow.

I don’t care how old your vehicle is that is of no concern to me whatsoever.


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## Fisherman

malagaoth said:


> Hurray! landoboguy at least 'gets it'!
> 
> Not every motorhome is owned by a stalwart of society, not every motorhome is a thing of beauty.
> 
> SOME motorhomers are dirty, irresponsible and do unpleasant things.
> 
> the fact that there was no 'tangible evidence' of people emptying black waste into the sea is not evidnece that it doesnt happen - even the most feckless motorhome owner is not going to do it in full view of the locals and once its hit the sea its 'gone' .
> 
> 
> 
> great, what do you propose, post 2000 Hymer A class motor homes only?  no motorhomes older than 2000? no scruffy motorhomes?   no motorhomes owned by scruffy people? (who decides what is scruffy?)
> 
> To people that dont do motorhoming a motorhome is a motor home is a motorhome!  they dont differentiate between a £100 000N&B gin palace and a badly self converted 40 yearold Bedford horse box - and why should they?
> 
> 
> Last October I stayed in  large holiday site - £1 per night special offer - not my usual choice but hey it was well placed and £1 per night! less than 100 yards from the entrance parked in a layby alongside a major road was a caravan by the state of it and the area around it it had been there a while - it was certainly there when I arrived and when I left a few days later.
> 
> I have to wonder where it was dumping its waste!



No a minimum of a £150,000 hymer  :fun::lol-053::lol-053:

You take the straw man thing to new limits with that sad post.

You know fine well I was not referring to people’s vehicles but there unreasonable actions.

But then why am I not surprised by the straw man post.


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## Fisherman

landoboguy said:


> The fact is, wherever you go in society there will always be those ruining it.



Yes John, but that does not justify us all being tarred with the same brush.

Surely the council could have dealt with the long stayers.

To simply do what they are doing is the cheap easy solution, which punnishes those who have behaved properly.


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## landoboguy

Fisherman said:


> To simply do what they are doing is the cheap easy solution



Nail , hammer, head Im afraid.
Thats councils for you


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## mickymost

As usual the few spoil it for many.We have stayed here twice this year for 10 days at a time  but mixed it up by moving along the proemenade and up by the green areas So it appeared we werent long stayers taking the p.Others we witnessed being parked on the section this posting refers to for the time we were there not moving an inch.yes two weeks without moving.The sea front spaces being the prime spots for these long stayers.So it becomes to look like a free campsite.There are no residents close living to this so not really a problem BUT the council looks down on this and the genuine wildcamper like on this forum is the ones affected by this irresponsible action of the few.We even spoke while here to local folk who were fully ok with the motorhomers here.So like whitby,scarborough etc the no overnight signs go up.Its a shame because now we have to spend our money elsewhere so local shops etc will loose out.Why the council couldn't provide a cheap aire type facility which would be easy to do on this area this post refers to as a barrier both sides could be erected where one pays a nominal sum to stayover.We would pay it if the cost was reasonable i/e not campsite rates.

Michael


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## Fisherman

I apologise to anyone on here who thought I was referring to the outfits.

I would never do this, that is simply not me.
I have witnessed some wonderful older units in my travels, they may look tired but I honestly admire those far more skilful than myself, who manage to keep them on the road.

I was on Arran this summer and got chatting to an owner of a 42 year old small Motorhome.
This was his pride and joy, he had owned it for 14 years. I can’t remember the model now, and I should have taken a photo.

My comments are about the actions of some who quite frankly take the piss, and ruin it for us all.

But that does not excuse the actions of councils who treat us poorly in my honest opinion.


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## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> As usual the few spoil it for many.We have stayed here twice this year for 10 days at a time  but mixed it up by moving along the proemenade and up by the green areas So it appeared we werent long stayers taking the p.Others we witnessed being parked on the section this posting refers to for the time we were there not moving an inch.yes two weeks without moving.The sea front spaces being the prime spots for these long stayers.So it becomes to look like a free campsite.There are no residents close living to this so not really a problem BUT the council looks down on this and the genuine wildcamper like on this forum is the ones affected by this irresponsible action of the few.We even spoke while here to local folk who were fully ok with the motorhomers here.So like whitby,scarborough etc the no overnight signs go up.Its a shame because now we have to spend our money elsewhere so local shops etc will loose out.Why the council couldn't provide a cheap aire type facility which would be easy to do on this area this post refers to as a barrier both sides could be erected where one pays a nominal sum to stayover.We would pay it if the cost was reasonable i/e not campsite rates.
> 
> Michael



Fine post Michael fine post.


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## mickymost

Fisherman I get where you are coming from the age of a vehicle motorhome or campervan is unimportant providing said owners dont take advantage and use a parkup  for weeks on end like some seem to do.But as you say in local councils eyes the motorhomer is becoming an easy target and the daytrippers who we have witnessed on many occasions are the ones who make the mess. And we get tarred with that dirty brush! 

Michael


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## Fisherman

landoboguy said:


> Nail , hammer, head Im afraid.
> Thats councils for you



That’s because we do nothing about it, as a matter of fact we do less than that.
Some on here are willing to admonish the councils for their actions.

We need to get organised with a body who will stand up for us, and who will have the resources and ability to remove those who think staying in one place for months is ok, emptying toilets in the sea or in appropriately is ok, or who are clearly not willing to abide by what most of us would regard as common decency.

But we also need to be provided with basic facilities akin to the aires in the continent.

There are over 200,000 of us and the number is growing year in year out, whilst the number of available urban pois is dwindling.

If things don’t change then we might as well forget about urban pois and head for the nearest caravan site, booking months in advance.


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## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> Fisherman I get where you are coming from the age of a vehicle motorhome or campervan is unimportant providing said owners dont take advantage and use a parkup  for weeks on end like some seem to do.But as you say in local councils eyes the motorhomer is becoming an easy target and the daytrippers who we have witnessed on many occasions are the ones who make the mess. And we get tarred with that dirty brush!
> 
> Michael



Spot on, and they are still at liberty to keep making a mess.

We were at a poi in Berwick on tweed this year and my wife and I tidied up the mess left by some youngsters the night before. If we go back there again I would not be shocked to find a no overnight parking sign there.


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## maureenandtom

[I"_Despite council officers having found no “tangible evidence” of environmental crimes, complaints about the van owners included waste being thrown into the sea, so councillors requested a meeting with officers to discuss options."_ [/I]

Despite *our *desire to believe that we behave like this - if there is no tangible evidence that we've done this then there is no evidence.     I'd be willing to bet that if someone was to ask under the Freedom of Information Act for details of such complaints there will be none such.   I'd go further - there will be a negligible number of complaints on any grounds - probaby none.    Wide experience says this.

This evidence thing is important in every other activity.   Expressed as Innocent until Proven Guilty.  I'm innocent and so is every other motorhomer without tangible evidence.

I have no idea why we wish to denigrate ourselves like this.  Banning is a failure to address the real problems and the reason why the real problems are not addressed is that they do not exist and have to be made up.   Experience shows time after time that complaints from the public are given as the reasons for banning.  Time after time the FoI shows there are no complaints in any significant numbers from the public.

Many of the comments on Residents' anger over camper van owners | Wirral Globe are revealng.

I had hopes that this was to be a success story and I wonder why it isn't.


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## mickymost

Fisherman said:


> That’s because we do nothing about it, as a matter of fact we do less than that.
> Some on here are willing to admonish the councils for their actions.
> 
> We need to get organised with a body who will stand up for us, and who will have the resources and ability to remove those who think staying in one place for months is ok, emptying toilets in the sea or in appropriately is ok, or who are clearly not willing to abide by what most of us would regard as common decency.
> 
> But we also need to be provided with basic facilities akin to the aires in the continent.
> 
> There are over 200,000 of us and the number is growing year in year out, whilst the number of available urban pois is dwindling.
> 
> If things don’t change then we might as well forget about urban pois and head for the nearest caravan site, booking months in advance.



The local councillors would love this i/e those who it has been proven have an interest yes part own the caravan sites.That is what they want us to do.book into their sites and park up in rows regimentally.

Michael


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## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> The local councillors would love this i/e those who it has been proven have an interest yes part own the caravan sites.That is what they want us to do.book into their sites and park up in rows regimentally.Two weeks ago due to a cheap deal we booked into a site in Hunstanton for four nights and on the third day while there our motorhome aquired four new dents to the rear due to an irresponsible mower rider (not cutting any grass)who went past our Hymer ripping the electric hook up lead from its socket so it banged across the rear of our  Hymer causing the four small new dents.The managment on the site are not in the least interested ( a multi million pound company btw)and have told me to claim under my own insurance.Bloody cheek.Ive even contacted their head office and no joy.So at present im not keen on visiting any more camping and caravan sites...
> 
> Michael



Right now we are individuals complaining about our disgraceful treatment. 
Akin to a customer of BT phoning up to make a complaint.
But that customer can refer them to ofcom giving the customer more leverage over a multi billion pound company. We don’t have an ofcom we are like sitting ducks waiting to be picked of one by one as is happening. Your incident could be dealt with by a legal dept within an organisation set up for us and bye us. I would be more than willing to pay an annual subscription to finance such an organisation. Right now all we read on here are councils behaving badly. As you say Michael we are up against those with self interest at heart, and they are being backed up by councils who value their annual taxes.

We need to put be able to put similar pressure on, if not things are going to get a whole lot worse.


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## Fisherman

maureenandtom said:


> [I"_Despite council officers having found no “tangible evidence” of environmental crimes, complaints about the van owners included waste being thrown into the sea, so councillors requested a meeting with officers to discuss options."_ [/I]
> 
> Despite *our *desire to believe that we behave like this - if there is no tangible evidence that we've done this then there is no evidence.     I'd be willing to bet that if someone was to ask under the Freedom of Information Act for details of such complaints there will be none such.   I'd go further - there will be a negligible number of complaints on any grounds - probaby none.    Wide experience says this.
> 
> This evidence thing is important in every other activity.   Expressed as Innocent until Proven Guilty.  I'm innocent and so is every other motorhomer without tangible evidence.
> 
> I have no idea why we wish to denigrate ourselves like this.  Banning is a failure to address the real problems and the reason why the real problems are not addressed is that they do not exist and have to be made up.   Experience shows time after time that complaints from the public are given as the reasons for banning.  Time after time the FoI shows there are no complaints in any significant numbers from the public.
> 
> Many of the comments on Residents' anger over camper van owners | Wirral Globe are revealng.
> 
> I had hopes that this was to be a success story and I wonder why it isn't.



It’s really sad when some fellow Motorhomers are willing to point the finger at us, instead of the politicians who spend the hundreds millions we give them every year whilst doing nothing for us appart from banning us from more and more areas.


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## caledonia

It happens in all the seaside towns. Portobello, St Andrews, North Berwick to name a few. It’s not the fault of councils it’s the scum in the caravans and motorhomes that take up residence that feck things up for the rest of us. Surely the people to complain to are the people spoiling your fun.


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## maureenandtom

caledonia said:


> It happens in all the seaside towns. Portobello, St Andrews, North Berwick to name a few. It’s not the fault of councils it’s the scum in the caravans and motorhomes that take up residence that feck things up for the rest of us. Surely the people to complain to are the people spoiling your fun.



It's interesting that you give North Berwick as an example.

North Berwick is (was) one of our success stories.  Well, a partial success.   East Lothian County Council attempted to ban overnight parking of motorhomes by instituting a bye-law prohibiting us. Some of us objected – discredited the reasons for the bye-law successfully – and the Scottish Govt refused to authorise it.   So for at least a few years motorhomers could continue to park overnight legally.

Has this changed?    I hadn't heard that the council had eventually fought back?

What's the present situation up there?     It was heartening to know, from that experience, that we could sometimes win.

It was documented on here so searching could bring up details.


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## maureenandtom

Found it:

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...ar-parks.html?highlight=North+Berwick+bye+law


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## mickymost

maureenandtom said:


> Found it:
> 
> https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...ar-parks.html?highlight=North+Berwick+bye+law



Am I missing something or does north berwick date being 2012 if so whats happening there now? Ie can we park overnight or not ?

Michael


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## Fisherman

caledonia said:


> It happens in all the seaside towns. Portobello, St Andrews, North Berwick to name a few. It’s not the fault of councils it’s the scum in the caravans and motorhomes that take up residence that feck things up for the rest of us. Surely the people to complain to are the people spoiling your fun.



No Caledonia we are not police officers, we have no power. What we should do is report such things to the council and let them deal with it.
Try complaining to morons like that, and you might finish up needing an ambulance.

I don't totally blame the councils for this. Whats required is funding from central government, allowing the councils to make provision for us.

If they spent only 10% of what we put in each year in taxes it could transform this country.

Lothian councils have adopted a no tolerance policy towards us throughout their region, even in rural car parks I have seen barriers and signage.


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## caledonia

Yes you can still overnight at North Berwick if you can get squeezed in beside the regulars or share the top car park with the boy racers and dope smokers.


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## Fisherman

caledonia said:


> Yes you can still overnight at North Berwick if you can get squeezed in beside the regulars or share the top car park with the boy racers and dope smokers.



Sounds like they have problems here then Caledonia, I wonder what they are doing about the boy racers and the dope smokers.

I reckon we both know, the same as what they are doing at Musselburgh, nothing.

But us, well they are right on top of things.


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## maureenandtom

mickymost said:


> Am I missing something or does north berwick date being 2012 if so whats happening there now? Ie can we park overnight or not ?
> 
> Michael



Yes.   2011/12.    This steady loss of overnight parking places has been going on a longish time.   We had another bye-law success at about the same time - with Aberdeen.   Apart from Loch Lomond - which I think wasn't a council - I think there were no more bye-laws introduced in Scotland.   I think that was down to us discrediting the reasons for them.   Councils now have public spaces protection orders which are easier for councils to implement and more difficult for us to combat.


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## landoboguy

Ill post a pic of the front there when i go this weekend
You can decide for yourselves


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## Fisherman

landoboguy said:


> Ill post a pic of the front there when i go this weekend
> You can decide for yourselves



Thank you John much appreciated


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## Fisherman

runnach said:


> A while back, maybe year, or more? A member posted a link to East Lothian Council planning on-line portal, there was/is, an application by ELC to re-jig the North Berwick Haugh Rd parking area, when I looked at the various plans, it was clear the re-jig would incorporate a design that would make the current MH over night practice, very difficult/impossible.
> 
> To date, we have the Status Quo, but on a recent stopover, I noticed all the picnic benches were removed, maybe a case of watch this space???
> 
> Another point, ELC were discussing adding another car park at the grass area behind the homes at Tantallon Terrace, I think area next to golf club CP?
> 
> Locals puts signs up asking for signatures to a petition to save their grass areas (which I would do too, if I lived there) to date, I have heard no more on this, but, I can certainly understand local resentment to MH and other type vehicles, over staying, worst I saw was the converted horse transporter, which frequented Musselburgh Harbour, too.
> 
> In these times of councils being strapped for cash, maybe one day they will wake up and smell the coffee and cater MH use, even for a small fee??



Last year we went to Musselburgh twice months appart and each time there was a Spanish couple living in a delapadaded caravan. They would get up in the morning and head of to work then come back in the evening. I have no doubt this did not go unnoticed, and this amongst other things led to the harbour now being of bounds. 
Councils need funding from central government to help finance our requirements, and I don’t see us getting any such funding as things stand.


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## Fisherman

runnach said:


> Agreed, but Fife Council are utilising Lochore Meadows, with facilities for MH's. Elie too, have taken a lenient approach, also a dilapidated tourer parked up permanently, which is lived in. Anyways, we can always hope!



Sadly runnach I think we need more than hope.

We worked out on here recently just how much we put into government coffers with vat, fuel duty, etc, not to mention the thousands we keep in employment, and it came to over a billion a year. Just 10% of that spent on infrastructure for us would gradually change things for the better. And not just for us, local residents would benefit also from proper controls. I have nothing against modest fees also being levied per night. What we have right now is open warfare between us and councils who are completely ignorant about us, and apply a heavy hand with no comeback whatsoever.


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## antiquesam

Fisherman said:


> Sadly runnach I think we need more than hope.
> 
> We worked out on here recently just how much we put into government coffers with vat, fuel duty, etc, not to mention the thousands we keep in employment, and it came to over a billion a year. Just 10% of that spent on infrastructure for us would gradually change things for the better. And not just for us, local residents would benefit also from proper controls. I have nothing against modest fees also being levied per night. What we have right now is open warfare between us and councils who are completely ignorant about us, and apply a heavy hand with no comeback whatsoever.



I think you are doing to Councils what you accuse them doing to us, in tarnishing them all with the same brush. Several Councils are now permitting motorhomes to stay overnight in the town car parks at a modest cost for a limited number of nights. They may not be where you want them to be, but they do exist. Indeed, I spent two weeks away in September just using these car parks, with just two nights in a CL's to fill and discharge.


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## sasquatch

Chester city have got it right IMHO at the Roodee car park, makes me wonder why other authorities can't do similar.


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## mickymost

Yes Roodee under Chester council,Helmsley in Yorkshire,Settle,Skipton,Ingleton etc are places we have paid to stay at a reasonable fee so it proves Councils CAN provide parking spaces specifically for Us Motorhomers.Other councils need to take note as more and more people are buying motorhomes as a cheaper and cost effective holiday and everyone needs a break away from their stressfull daily grind of a life.So as others have said on this post with the amount of taxes we hand over to the government on everything we do (including vat on new motorhomes campervans dont forget) then I feel the Government and the council have a duty of care to look after us in this manner.Definately we need a representative board to stand up and put our case forward i/e put pressure on the Government and local councils to be fairer to our Motorhoming community and provide the necessary facilities for us that are lacking at the moment,and NOT KEEP TAKING THE PARKING AREAS AWAY FROM US.


Michael


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## Fisherman

antiquesam said:


> I think you are doing to Councils what you accuse them doing to us, in tarnishing them all with the same brush. Several Councils are now permitting motorhomes to stay overnight in the town car parks at a modest cost for a limited number of nights. They may not be where you want them to be, but they do exist. Indeed, I spent two weeks away in September just using these car parks, with just two nights in a CL's to fill and discharge.



Sorry you think that, but that is not my intention.

Each time I hear of a council behaving poorly I direct my comments at that particular council.

Fife Council up here are an example to many others who behave poorly in my honest opinion.

I have read off other good examples on here to, perhaps I should comment on them favourably also.


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## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> Yes Roodee under Chester council,Helmsley in Yorkshire,Settle,Skipton,Ingleton etc are places we have paid to stay at a reasonable fee so it proves Councils CAN provide parking spaces specifically for Us Motorhomers.Other councils need to take note as more and more people are buying motorhomes as a cheaper and cost effective holiday and everyone needs a break away from their stressfull daily grind of a life.So as others have said on this post with the amount of taxes we hand over to the government on everything we do (including vat on new motorhomes campervans dont forget) then I feel the Government and the council have a duty of care to look after us in this manner.Definately we need a representative board to stand up and put our case forward i/e put pressure on the Government and local councils to be fairer to our Motorhoming community and provide the necessary facilities for us that are lacking at the moment,and NOT KEEP TAKING THE PARKING AREAS AWAY FROM US.
> 
> 
> Michael



Great post  Michael apart from the part about being cheaper and cost effective.

I reckon its actually an expensive way to holiday.

Apart from the expense of purchasing your vehicle  you have road tax, insurance, maintenance, break down recovery, site fees, fuel, etc.


----------



## mickymost

Fisherman said:


> Great post  Michael apart from the part about being cheaper and cost effective.
> 
> I reckon its actually an expensive way to holiday.
> 
> Apart from the expense of purchasing your vehicle  you have road tax, insurance, maintenance, break down recovery, site fees, fuel, etc.



I agree but it can be cheap or expensive depending on which road you take.One can buy a cheap starter motorhome or can pay an eye watering £50000 to £100000 grand plus,on a motorhome.Tax insurance maintenance etc has to be factored in you are right Fisherman.But the beauty is to be able to suit oneself and not be under time restraint i/e airports etc...on an abroad holiday for example and the evidence that many more people are going the motorhome route speaks for itself.Apparently sales figures of new motorhomes are well up this year!


Michael


----------



## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> I agree but it can be cheap or expensive depending on which road you take.One can buy a cheap starter motorhome or can pay an eye watering £50000 to £100000 grand plus,on a motorhome.Tax insurance maintenance etc has to be factored in you are right Fisherman.But the beauty is to be able to suit oneself and not be under time restraint i/e airports etc...on an abroad holiday for example and the evidence that many more people are going the motorhome route speaks for itself.Apparently sales figures of new motorhomes are well up this year!
> 
> 
> Michael



Of course if your good with vehicles and mechanically minded you can save.

I would love to take the mh abroad one day but that won’t be for a few years once I have exhausted the uk and Ireland.


----------



## mickymost

Fisherman said:


> Of course if your good with vehicles and mechanically minded you can save.
> 
> I would love to take the mh abroad one day but that won’t be for a few years once I have exhausted the uk and Ireland.



Fisherman same as us we stick to uk at present due to touring with two house cats who would need pet passports to come abroad with us and her indoors is not keen on getting them vacinated..


Atb Michael


----------



## landoboguy

Fisherman said:


> Last year we went to Musselburgh twice months appart and each time there was a Spanish couple living in a delapadaded caravan. They would get up in the morning and head of to work then come back in the evening. I have no doubt this did not go unnoticed, and this amongst other things led to the harbour now being of bounds.


This is happening at Wallasey



> Councils need funding from central government to help finance our requirements, and I don’t see us getting any such funding as things stand.


Agreed, and dont see it happening either, certainly with Wirral Council.

On another note, sone of the houses/flats in that area are far worse state than some vans


----------



## runnach

landoboguy said:


> This is happening at Wallasey
> 
> 
> Agreed, and dont see it happening either, certainly with Wirral Council.
> 
> On another note, sone of the houses/flats in that area are far worse state than some vans



Councils are strapped for cash it is important they are seen to directly benefit their electorate. It is far easier to spend money on council flats and double glazed windows than promote tourism where the value is a guesstimate It sits easier with the electorate

Motorhomes are double edged sword and a good example of fake news albeit there will be unsavoury users if we are honest , Banning us means councils appear to have a bite as well as a bark good for their voters whether there is justification is of little relevance we know that which leads to my next point the arguments there are campsites satisfy the argument as regards Joe public is concerned

Motorhomers did have a voice quite a vocal one John Thompson being part of it and it eventually folded the reason apathy there is simply not the support either people to dig in their pockets or invest the time required Tom will no doubt comment on that

The Whitby situation we know was inflated by those in power to get their way ,If a motorhome organisation were to take them to high court and evidence they would win financially we fall at the first hurdle

Channa


----------



## antiquesam

landoboguy said:


> This is happening at Wallasey
> 
> 
> Agreed, and dont see it happening either, certainly with Wirral Council.
> 
> On another note, sone of the houses/flats in that area are far worse state than some vans



I'm not sure why you think Government money is needed. It doesn't cost anything to permit overnight parking in existing car parks, but it can provide additional business for council tax paying local businesses.


----------



## Fisherman

channa said:


> Councils are strapped for cash it is important they are seen to directly benefit their electorate. It is far easier to spend money on council flats and double glazed windows than promote tourism where the value is a guesstimate It sits easier with the electorate
> 
> Motorhomes are double edged sword and a good example of fake news albeit there will be unsavoury users if we are honest , Banning us means councils appear to have a bite as well as a bark good for their voters whether there is justification is of little relevance we know that which leads to my next point the arguments there are campsites satisfy the argument as regards Joe public is concerned
> 
> Motorhomers did have a voice quite a vocal one John Thompson being part of it and it eventually folded the reason apathy there is simply not the support either people to dig in their pockets or invest the time required Tom will no doubt comment on that
> 
> The Whitby situation we know was inflated by those in power to get their way ,If a motorhome organisation were to take them to high court and evidence they would win financially we fall at the first hurdle
> 
> Channa



Sorry but campsites in some areas are hard to come by channa.
I have just booked a campsite for two nights for next may six months in advance and I only managed to get my third choice.
We are planning to do Scaffel Pike, the first site was fully booked, the second site insisted we pay for three nights at £97.80, and the third a national trust site only had eight pitches available and we just booked the last two for ourselves and friends.


----------



## Fisherman

antiquesam said:


> I'm not sure why you think Government money is needed. It doesn't cost anything to permit overnight parking in existing car parks, but it can provide additional business for council tax paying local businesses.



Government money is needed to provide parking spaces in locations that will minimise interference for local residents, provide larger parking spaces, and were possible provide chemical waste and grey water facilities.

If the Government spent only 10% of what we give them each year this would greatly improve things.
I am talking about Aire type facilities found throughout the continent, but not here.

I have had discussions with French and German visitors who are shocked at the lack of facilities in the UK.


----------



## mistericeman

Fisherman said:


> Sorry but campsites in some areas are hard to come by channa.
> I have just booked a campsite for two nights for next may six months in advance and I only managed to get my third choice.
> We are planning to do Scaffel Pike, the first site was fully booked, the second site insisted we pay for three nights at £97.80, and the third a national trust site only had eight pitches available and we just booked the last two for ourselves and friends.



The joys of visiting "honeypots" ...

Spread your wings and enjoy wider horizons, and the path less trod .

Frankly the last few times i have posted on here regarding 'forward thinking councils' providing facilities for motorhomers to overnight ...there have been plenty of "It's too expensive for what you get" type posts ...
To the point of I don't bother anymore ...some folks are that tight they only breathe in .


----------



## Fisherman

mistericeman said:


> The joys of visiting "honeypots" ...
> 
> Spread your wings and enjoy wider horizons, and the path less trod .
> 
> Frankly the last few times i have posted on here regarding 'forward thinking councils' providing facilities for motorhomers to overnight ...there have been plenty of "It's too expensive for what you get" type posts ...
> To the point of I don't bother anymore ...some folks are that tight they only breathe in .



Paths less less trod, How about ardnermurchan, Isle of Mull, Upper Torridon, Caithness, Fife, Aberdeenshire, and Arrans west coast, all visited last year and not a campsite used.

But I have found the lake district unfriendly for wild camping, and my friends are not into wild camping.:sad:

You may be content to only travel in rural locations, giving 'honeypots" a bye, but give a thought for those who either don't fancy hills, mountains and lochs, but have a preference that does not concur with yours.


----------



## antiquesam

Fisherman said:


> Government money is needed to provide parking spaces in locations that will minimise interference for local residents, provide larger parking spaces, and were possible provide chemical waste and grey water facilities.
> 
> If the Government spent only 10% of what we give them each year this would greatly improve things.
> I am talking about Aire type facilities found throughout the continent, but not here.
> 
> I have had discussions with French and German visitors who are shocked at the lack of facilities in the UK.



Surely a parking place with chemical waste facilities are called campsites and we have over 20,000 small 5 space sites in the UK, with prices as low as £5 overseen by the C&MC and C&CC, together with the Motorhome Club.


----------



## mickymost

antiquesam said:


> Surely a parking place with chemical waste facilities are called campsites and we have over 20,000 small 5 space sites in the UK, with prices as low as £5 overseen by the C&MC and C&CC, together with the Motorhome Club.



You are correct but do we all want to pay a yearly subscription to any of these named clubs and be bound by their regimental rules? Im not sure if I do but each to their own! 

And do they really only cost £5.00 all in including all members of ones party ?

Michael


----------



## Fisherman

antiquesam said:


> Surely a parking place with chemical waste facilities are called campsites and we have over 20,000 small 5 space sites in the UK, with prices as low as £5 overseen by the C&MC and C&CC, together with the Motorhome Club.



They call them aires in France, they have campsites in France as well.

I would hardly refer to a parking space and chemical waste points (were possible) as a campsite.

But I do agree it’s not “wild camping”, I do that in rural Scotland.


----------



## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> You are correct but do we all want to pay a yearly subscription to any of these named clubs and be bound by their regimental rules? Im not sure if I do but each to their own!
> 
> And do they really only cost £5.00 all in including all members of ones party ?
> 
> Michael



The average price of a CL on the caravan and Motorhome web site is around £15.
And IF you can get booked on short notice (unlikely) they provide a good service.


----------



## mistericeman

mickymost said:


> You are correct but do we all want to pay a yearly subscription to any of these named clubs and be bound by their regimental rules? Im not sure if I do but each to their own!
> 
> And do they really only cost £5.00 all in including all members of ones party ?
> 
> Michael



Having regularly stopped at many CL/CS 5 pitch sites over the years... 
I have only ever been asked for a membership number twice... Most frankly aren't bothered... 
Or at least haven't been with us? 

They are usually happy to accept cold hard cash.... As far as the bigger sites are concerned I can't comment as I don't need hot and cold running everything, just a bit of space and solitude ideally with a view.... 

We are members of the camping and caravan club BUT have had little 'need' to resort to A membership number.


----------



## antiquesam

mickymost said:


> You are correct but do we all want to pay a yearly subscription to any of these named clubs and be bound by their regimental rules? Im not sure if I do but each to their own!
> 
> And do they really only cost £5.00 all in including all members of ones party ?
> 
> Michael



I'm not sure what rules apply in CL's or CS's. Most of those I've used are a field, usually to myself and parking where I want. On many I haven't seen the owner and left the money in an honesty box. Perhaps you haven't used them.


----------



## antiquesam

Fisherman said:


> The average price of a CL on the caravan and Motorhome web site is around £15.
> And IF you can get booked on short notice (unlikely) they provide a good service.



The £15 you quote is the top end, usually with showers.


----------



## Fisherman

antiquesam said:


> The £15 you quote is the top end, usually with showers.



What about £5 a night were does that stand.

Do you not shower then, many vans don’t have showers.


----------



## mickymost

antiquesam said:


> I'm not sure what rules apply in CL's or CS's. Most of those I've used are a field, usually to myself and parking where I want. On many I haven't seen the owner and left the money in an honesty box. Perhaps you haven't used them.



Correct not used up to now but im curious if you state you have put money in an honesty box and havent seen the site owner how do you know how much to pay so are you saying if there is two of us do I just slip a £5.00 er in the box?

Michael


----------



## mickymost

Fisherman said:


> What about £5 a night were does that stand.
> 
> Do you not shower then, many vans don’t have showers.



And Fisherman good point as some with showers in their motorhomes dont like using them so it seems that for a fiver £5.00 you can pitch up anonymously (honesty box) on a cl or cs site then take full advantage of the cl site showers etc? Seems too good to me?

Michael


----------



## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> Correct not used up to now but im curious if you state you have put money in an honesty box and havent seen the site owner how do you know how much to pay so are you saying if there is two of us do I just slip a £5.00 er in the box?
> 
> Michael




Just checked over 300 cls on the c&m club guide found one site in Bedfordshire FROM £5 a night.

Found another from £18 to £24 a night.

The average price was around £12-13

Oh and the one on Bedfordshire had a waste point, but no showers


----------



## mickymost

Thank you Fisherman for your research on this so maybe Antiquesam can enlighten us on where we can pitch up for the very reasonable price of £5.00?

And Fisherman you stated the bedfordshire site was from £5.00 a night so I wonder what the extras (always extras in my experience)that will bring the nightly rate up to?

Michael


----------



## antiquesam

Fisherman said:


> What about £5 a night were does that stand.
> 
> Do you not shower then, many vans don’t have showers.



Then tough I'm afraid, but what do you do when wilding? I assume you do wild, being on this forum


----------



## antiquesam

mickymost said:


> Thank you Fisherman for your research on this so maybe Antiquesam can enlighten us on where we can pitch up for the very reasonable price of £5.00?
> 
> And Fisherman you stated the bedfordshire site was from £5.00 a night so I wonder what the extras (always extras in my experience)that will bring the nightly rate up to?
> 
> Michael


There are a lot. No showers. A cesspit for your toilet waste and a tap. I stayed in one in September overlooking Carsington Water.


----------



## Caz

I stayed on a lovely little CaMC CL last year at Penrith. Walkable into town. 5 very spacious pitches on a manicured lawn. Fresh water tap, cd point & a rubbish bin. No EHU or loos, showers etc. £5 per night.

I thought it was unusual for a CaMC CL, most in the book seem to be a lot more expensive and I would say £15 inc EHU is an average. Stayed on one near Gretna a couple of years ago for £15 inc EHU toilet Cd point rubbish bin etc - but the shower (singular) was an extra 20p.

I've used C&CC CSs more, they tend to be cheaper and either no EHU or optional EHU. I've only ever been on one where I was told to put the money in an envelope through the door as the owner was away for the weekend, at all others the owners have been very much in evidence collecting the fees.


----------



## antiquesam

mickymost said:


> You are correct but do we all want to pay a yearly subscription to any of these named clubs and be bound by their regimental rules? Im not sure if I do but each to their own!
> 
> And do they really only cost £5.00 all in including all members of ones party ?
> 
> Michael



Yes


----------



## antiquesam

mickymost said:


> Correct not used up to now but im curious if you state you have put money in an honesty box and havent seen the site owner how do you know how much to pay so are you saying if there is two of us do I just slip a £5.00 er in the box?
> 
> Michael



I phone ahead and they tell me where to be and what to do with the money, be it call at the house or leave in the shed.


----------



## antiquesam

Fisherman said:


> Just checked over 300 cls on the c&m club guide found one site in Bedfordshire FROM £5 a night.
> 
> Found another from £18 to £24 a night.
> 
> The average price was around £12-13
> 
> Oh and the one on Bedfordshire had a waste point, but no showers


I've never been to Bedfordshire.


----------



## antiquesam

Fisherman said:


> Just checked over 300 cls on the c&m club guide found one site in Bedfordshire FROM £5 a night.
> 
> Found another from £18 to £24 a night.
> 
> The average price was around £12-13
> 
> Oh and the one on Bedfordshire had a waste point, but no showers


I've never been to Bedfordshire. I'm not lying. They do exist but I see there are only 6 CL's in the county so one isn't a bad percentage.


----------



## mickymost

antiquesam said:


> Yes



So they all cost £5.00? You sure?

Michael.


----------



## mickymost

antiquesam said:


> I've never been to Bedfordshire.



Neither have I.

Michael


----------



## antiquesam

mickymost said:


> So they all cost £5.00? You sure?
> 
> Michael.



No. But then I think you knew that.


----------



## mickymost

antiquesam said:


> No. But then I think you knew that.



At 21.06pm you posted yes now you say no mmm!! so you knew it to


----------



## Fisherman

antiquesam said:


> Then tough I'm afraid, but what do you do when wilding? I assume you do wild, being on this forum



If you bothered to read the posts you would not have to assume you would know.
As for showering, let’s put it this way I prefer radox.

As for tough :lol-049:


----------



## Fisherman

antiquesam said:


> I've never been to Bedfordshire.



Neither have I, and


----------



## Fisherman

antiquesam said:


> I've never been to Bedfordshire. I'm not lying. They do exist but I see there are only 6 CL's in the county so one isn't a bad percentage.



Pleased your not lying, like I said I have never been there either, or Australia, Argentina, or guatamala,

And I am not lying either, HONEST, cross my heart and hope to die :lol-053::lol-053:


----------



## maingate

mickymost said:


> And Fisherman good point as some with showers in their motorhomes dont like using them so it seems that for a fiver £5.00 you can pitch up anonymously (honesty box) on a cl or cs site then take full advantage of the cl site showers etc? Seems too good to me?
> 
> Michael



On some CL and CS basic sites you can have a shower ...... as long as you put a £1 coin in the slot first.

Over the years I have stayed on lots of Sites (when I was working around the country). I can't see how you have a problem with Clubs and regimentation. I only had dealings with the Wardens when I arrived and gave them a wave when I left. You must be a bit of a workyticket if you have had problems with the Staff?


----------



## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> Thank you Fisherman for your research on this so maybe Antiquesam can enlighten us on where we can pitch up for the very reasonable price of £5.00?
> 
> And Fisherman you stated the bedfordshire site was from £5.00 a night so I wonder what the extras (always extras in my experience)that will bring the nightly rate up to?
> 
> Michael



Hardly research Michael just browsed over the guide.

Only been to three CLS in England, were on two of them they asked me if I was a C&M club member before taking booking, and one asked for my membership card on arrival.

I paid between £12-17 on my visits. 

And I used the shower facilities on two of them.

We used one in Scotland after 5 nights wild camping to empty our toilet and get a GOOD shower before heading home next morning. I was not asked for my card and we turned up without booking. That one was £12


----------



## Fisherman

maingate said:


> On some CL and CS basic sites you can have a shower ...... as long as you put a £1 coin in the slot first.
> 
> Over the years I have stayed on lots of Sites (when I was working around the country). I can't see how you have a problem with Clubs and regimentation. I only had dealings with the Wardens when I arrived and gave them a wave when I left. You must be a bit of a workyticket if you have had problems with the Staff?



Hardly call the farmer or land/home owner staff, yes I agree no regimentation was involved.

But what is a workyticket, never heard that term


----------



## mickymost

maingate said:


> On some CL and CS basic sites you can have a shower ...... as long as you put a £1 coin in the slot first.
> 
> Over the years I have stayed on lots of Sites (when I was working around the country). I can't see how you have a problem with Clubs and regimentation. I only had dealings with the Wardens when I arrived and gave them a wave when I left. You must be a bit of a workyticket if you have had problems with the Staff?



Maingate Im not a member of any of these mentioned clubs and never have been So how would I have had problems with their staff up to now.Im trying on this posting to figure out whether its advantageous to join or not?


And please explain Workyticket


Michael


----------



## mickymost

mickymost said:


> Maingate Im not a member of any of these mentioned clubs and never have been So how would I have had problems with their staff up to now.Im trying on this posting to figure out whether its advantageous to join or not?
> 
> 
> And please explain Workyticket
> 
> 
> Michael



And I was led to believe on one of these clubs one is told where to pitch up i/e given a pitch number (regimental)where on the other club you suit yourself but Maingate you seem to state this is not the case? So on both clubs Maingate can one suit oneself and pitch up where one likes is this what you mean?





And I refer to the clubs main sites on this comment as they are the ones with site wardens,which you mentioned in your reply....

Smaller cls and cs I pressume one deals with the land owner?

Michael


----------



## jeanette

mickymost this is a worky ticket it’s Geordie Slang I hope this explains it for you


----------



## Fisherman

mickymost said:


> And I was led to believe on one of these clubs one is told where to pitch up i/e given a pitch number (regimental)where on the other club you suit yourself but Maingate you seem to state this is not the case? So on both clubs Maingate can one suit oneself and pitch up where one likes is this what you mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I refer to the clubs main sites on this comment as they are the ones with site wardens,which you mentioned in your reply....
> 
> Smaller cls and cs I pressume one deals with the land owner?
> 
> Michael



Michael,

I have been to campsites private ones, C&MC sites and I reckon claiming that they are regimented is a bit unfair. The staff are always very pleasant and helpful, and from what I see they are dedicated to their work. They tend to be older folk 50s upwards normally couples and quite frankly they could not do enough for you when asked. Yes when you hsve over a hundred pitches together you have to have rules, but they are there to make you enjoy your stay and for your safety. I don’t mind campsites, or CLS, but my preference is definitely a remote beautiful part of Scotland with access to the hills, but that’s me.

But we are all different, some say they don’t like campsites, some say that you can’t wild camp in Brighton, some say you are only wild camping if it’s in a rural area. I find it strange that in a modern Motorhome that you can claim to be wild camping. To me wild camping involves a tent, but then that’s just my opinion, and that’s not worth anymore than anyone else’s on here.

But although I am not really to intersested in town centre “wild camping” I hate to see the way that we are being treated by SOME  councils in the uk. I feel that we should adopt the continental arrangement with aires throughout the urban and even in some limited rural locations. Our solution seems to be putting up barriers or signs basicly saying go take a hike we don’t want your sort here. 

So for me campsites have their place, I use them when we have our grandson with us sometimes, or if I am unsure of the area. When we go somewhere for the first time we tend to go to a site then wander about looking for locations to wild camp, we have found some crackers this way, most of which are not on here.

So do yourself a favour Michael embrace all forms of camping, because if you can enjoy a city centre campsite, or wild camp in the back of beyond, you are much better placed than those that claim only rural will do.


----------



## Fisherman

jeanette said:


> View attachment 68432 mickymost this is a worky ticket it’s Geordie Slang I hope this explains it for you



Geordies and Aberdonians having a chat they would need an interpreter.

Love the Geordie accent, but can’t understsnd it sometimes, as for the Aberdeen north east dorrach, it’s a whole new language.


----------



## maingate

mickymost said:


> And I was led to believe on one of these clubs one is told where to pitch up i/e given a pitch number (regimental)where on the other club you suit yourself but Maingate you seem to state this is not the case? So on both clubs Maingate can one suit oneself and pitch up where one likes is this what you mean?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I refer to the clubs main sites on this comment as they are the ones with site wardens,which you mentioned in your reply....
> 
> Smaller cls and cs I pressume one deals with the land owner?
> 
> Michael



It is correct that one of the Clubs direct you to a pitch. You have to remember that units come in all shapes and sizes and have Hab doors on opposite sides. Not all pitches are of equal size and some Members have mobility issues. If you find that a Warden looking at your unit, then deciding a suitable pitch for it is regimentation, then I would suggest you try a different way of holidaying. If you stay in a Hotel, you are given a key to a room, you don't wander round the Hotel to decide which one you want.

For your information I am a member of the C&CC. I never use the big Club Sites, only their CS and Temporary Holiday Sites. We wild less and less, avoid seaside resorts like the plague (because they seem to attract tossers in motorhomes). All of this thanks to the huge increase in motorhome ownership. What we have noticed is that when on sites, Caravan owners tend to be more open and friendly than motorhome owners. These people who wave at you while driving, often don't mix with others on sites. We can be a strange lot .... at least you lot are, nowt wrong with me.


----------



## Fisherman

maingate said:


> It is correct that one of the Clubs direct you to a pitch. You have to remember that units come in all shapes and sizes and have Hab doors on opposite sides. Not all pitches are of equal size and some Members have mobility issues. If you find that a Warden looking at your unit, then deciding a suitable pitch for it is regimentation, then I would suggest you try a different way of holidaying. If you stay in a Hotel, you are given a key to a room, you don't wander round the Hotel to decide which one you want.
> 
> For your information I am a member of the C&CC. I never use the big Club Sites, only their CS and Temporary Holiday Sites. We wild less and less, avoid seaside resorts like the plague (because they seem to attract tossers in motorhomes). All of this thanks to the huge increase in motorhome ownership. What we have noticed is that when on sites, Caravan owners tend to be more open and friendly than motorhome owners. These people who wave at you while driving, often don't mix with others on sites. We can be a strange lot .... at least you lot are, nowt wrong with me.



Ooooooocccchhh 

Well well maingate, generalisation is the enemy here.

I like to treat people as I find them, regardless of what they own or where they are parked.

Idiots come in all sorts of shapes and varieties, and so do good folk.

Unless of course they are C&CC members, or don’t support the same football team as me :lol-053::lol-053:

Open mindedness is a virtue.


----------



## runnach

In my experience of the CC club ( calls itself something different nowadays ) the larger sites are more structured, most leave you to have a ride around find a pitch and report back letting them know where you are

Some sites like clumber there are entry barriers that require an electronic key and the shower block and toilets have a key too. This is down to the General Public in the park sneaking on taking advantages of the facilities and disappearing so fully understandable

Cls the ones I used generally werent in tourist areas I would ring first to find out whether there was a space, and upon arrival just pitch where you want.

price wise it all varies again off season mid week I was paying £7 per night at Clumber including unrestricted EHU. People taking the mickey is the reason a lot of the smaller sites have pre paid electric meters,

When I had done my bits bats and bobs wilding the van was self contained surely that's part of the point, showering cooking toilets all on board so all that needed to be left was tyre tracks

Facilities on cls vary from location to location (same with France )Membership of either club gives you a handbook with all locations listed and prices telling the facilities there

Channa


----------



## maingate

Fisherman said:


> Ooooooocccchhh
> 
> Well well maingate, generalisation is the enemy here.
> 
> I like to treat people as I find them, regardless of what they own or where they are parked.
> 
> Idiots come in all sorts of shapes and varieties, and so do good folk.
> 
> Unless of course they are C&CC members, or don’t support the same football team as me :lol-053::lol-053:
> 
> Open mindedness is a virtue.



I refer the honourable gentleman to his signature at the bottom of all his posts. :dance:


----------



## Fisherman

maingate said:


> I refer the honourable gentleman to his signature at the bottom of all his posts. :dance:



Ok I consider myself referred, and what’s your point


----------



## maingate

Fisherman said:


> Ok I consider myself referred, and what’s your point



You seem to disagree with my use of the word 'generally'. I used it in the context of observing other motorhomers and caravanners (on sites and off) over many years and coming to a conclusion. I will be totally honest here .... I start with a low opinion of others in this pastime and let them convince me otherwise. I will still be friendly, will say hello or wave but I expect to be disappointed. Within all large groups there are a percentage of tossers, motorhoming is not immune to this, it is a reflection on modern day society. On the other hand we have got to know people that regularly use the C&CC THS and have made a few good friends. The WC Meets are similar because we are responsible people who respect others. The Clubs and forums are not of interest to the worst offenders. To quote from another forum "We are wildcampers, not freeloading tossers".


----------



## Fisherman

maingate said:


> You seem to disagree with my use of the word 'generally'. I used it in the context of observing other motorhomers and caravanners (on sites and off) over many years and coming to a conclusion. I will be totally honest here .... I start with a low opinion of others in this pastime and let them convince me otherwise. I will still be friendly, will say hello or wave but I expect to be disappointed. Within all large groups there are a percentage of tossers, motorhoming is not immune to this, it is a reflection on modern day society. On the other hand we have got to know people that regularly use the C&CC THS and have made a few good friends. The WC Meets are similar because we are responsible people who respect others. The Clubs and forums are not of interest to the worst offenders. To quote from another forum "We are wildcampers, not freeloading tossers".



Maingate you never used the word generally.

You referred to motorhomers parked up on seaside resorts as tossers, I agree that there will be one or two but generally speaking most are trying to make the best of what they have due to of a lack of proper facilities.
And there will be some who are inexperienced who have yet to learn. I have only being doing this for three years now.

When I chat with someone on a site I don't care what they own, a £150,000 motorhome or an Argos £50 tent, it makes no difference to me.

But you still have not explained the reference to my signature, I find that strange.

Unlike some I welcome varying opinions, but that does not preclude me from disagreeing and putting forward my point.

Like you I much prefer wild camping away from seaside resorts, but some on here like that kind of thing, and its getting tougher each year with 14000 new homes on the road each year and less and less places to pitch up each year.

We all have differing needs and tastes, that's what makes us all different.

Also you are spot on, types that behave poorly are unlikely to post on here.


----------



## mickymost

After owning a tent then trailer tent then old caravan etc and camping, We owned a motorhome a brand new one in 1992 to 1996 and used campsites (not club sites so no experience of these)and we never knew of such a pastime as wild camping.We sold the motorhome in 1996 to get a deposit to buy a house.After many years of no holidays due to work commitments and suchlike in 2012 sadly my dad passed away and we went on a mad spree on holidays cruises then  abroad in hotels ,which cost a fortune .Then in 2014 we bought an old campervan to get back into camping holidays this old campervan being based on a mercedes and we found this wonderful forum and have since changed vehicles three times to end up with our 25 year old Hymer which is better than the 21 year old Hymer we had two years ago.We ourselves like to mix wildcamping up and use both inland pois and coastal pois and love Scotland with all it has to offer.But in the last four years we have noticed lots of changes with councils cracking the whip and shutting doors on us in this pastime which is a shame.And this is happening inland and on the coast as well.And the NC500 in Scotland has been a victim of its success.Two many motorhomes are clogging up the route according to reports etc and residents are getting peed off?

And yes Maingate there are tossers as you put it that are spoiling wildcamping for the genuine campers.And councils are now using that Tar brush on us all.But Maingate as you said in all walks of life you will come across tossers.
So Fisherman like yourselves we have only been wildcamping for four years now.

Maingate please let Fisherman know problem he has with  his signature? Its not obvious?

Michael


----------



## maingate

In response to requests, I will clear up the confusion over Fishermans signature.

ie: 'If we all agreed there would be no discussion, and it would be a dull boring world'.

We don't all agree, we all think differently .... and that causes discussion.

Which is actually what we are doing now .... in a civilised manner (I hope).


----------



## Fisherman

maingate said:


> In response to requests, I will clear up the confusion over Fishermans signature.
> 
> ie: 'If we all agreed there would be no discussion, and it would be a dull boring world'.
> 
> We don't all agree, we all think differently .... and that causes discussion.
> 
> Which is actually what we are doing now .... in a civilised manner (I hope).



If I thought this was not civilised I would withdraw, of course its civilised.
I have a rule I always follow when on forums.
Never say online anything that I would not say to your face.
Anyway thanks for the clarification.

Oh and bye the way honourable, Give me a break.


----------



## maingate

Fisherman said:


> If I thought this was not civilised I would withdraw, of course its civilised.
> I have a rule I always follow when on forums.
> Never say online anything that I would not say to your face.
> Anyway thanks for the clarification.
> *
> Oh and bye the way honourable, Give me a break*.



Don't sell yourself short, I have a soft spot for the Jocks. I worked with hundreds of them at King Khalid Military City in the 1970's .......

 ...... of course with it being Saudi Arabia, there was no alcohol .... officially. :lol-061:


----------



## Fisherman

maingate said:


> Don't sell yourself short, I have a soft spot for the Jocks. I worked with hundreds of them at King Khalid Military City in the 1970's .......
> 
> ...... of course with it being Saudi Arabia, there was no alcohol .... officially. :lol-061:



We Scots have a rep for heavy boozing.

But the heaviest boozing I ever took part in involved a cricket match between Lancashire and Middlesex in Blackpool.

And I was the only Scot in our crowd, I could not keep up with the English guys.
I have never been so drunk, I had a three day hangover.
And two of the English guys went to work next day.
They were roof workers would you beleive.


----------



## runnach

The other thing to consider is if 14000 new vans have been registered this year how many of those are rental vehicles I know of at least two dealers that have gone that route and know the owners from a previous life.

The motivation behind renting can be many, try before you buy, or a holiday more suited than hotels poorly relatives in tow there is a multitude of reasons, some will be responsible others irresponsible and some of the latter not deliberately just thoughtless

This is not the first year leisure vehicles have enjoyed growth but the impact on venues, popular tales of the NC500 and the social media exposure is putting relentless pressure on the past time

I commented earlier as to my thoughts on why councils are reluctant duty to their ratepayers and seen to be doing the right thing my point, that viewpoint doesn't help our cause and realistically we don't have nor will have any organisation that will fight the cause So in essence desires of aire type arrangements as per France are wishful thinking I doubt at this point a reality 

On a positive note it should be remembered all this came about in France not to enhance trade etc but an answer to pressure placed on tourist areas to solve a problem.Thankfully for our benefit authorites there have seen incremental benefits of increased trade but that was never the intention


Other pastimes that have been popular down to pressures and irresponsible elements havs seen such as recreational off roading , trial riding banned en bloc in a lot of areas the wildcamping I see following the same path 

Channa


----------



## runnach

Fisherman said:


> We Scots have a rep for heavy boozing.
> 
> But the heaviest boozing I ever took part in involved a cricket match between Lancashire and Middlesex in Blackpool.
> 
> And I was the only Scot in our crowd, I could not keep up with the English guys.
> I have never been so drunk, I had a three day hangover.
> And two of the English guys went to work next day.
> They were roof workers would you beleive.



One of my heaviest sessions and not planned was at Magbrins highland meet, Barnacle Bill of Dunbar may well remember along with Drew and Martin (royal Navy) it turned out into a home international and an an unhealthy appetite for tasting various whisky mixes 

I hope and don't think we disturbed anyone and Margaret and Angus found it quite funny or at least took it in their stride and were good humoured,,,,the Inverness answer a Scotch pie not summat you find in Dewsbury but back in the harbour Weegie Dave the gaffer seemed louder than normal and I swear that bloody nail gun he got out on purpose 

Channa


----------



## Fisherman

channa said:


> The other thing to consider is if 14000 new vans have been registered this year how many of those are rental vehicles I know of at least two dealers that have gone that route and know the owners from a previous life.
> 
> The motivation behind renting can be many, try before you buy, or a holiday more suited than hotels poorly relatives in tow there is a multitude of reasons, some will be responsible others irresponsible and some of the latter not deliberately just thoughtless
> 
> This is not the first year leisure vehicles have enjoyed growth but the impact on venues, popular tales of the NC500 and the social media exposure is putting relentless pressure on the past time
> 
> I commented earlier as to my thoughts on why councils are reluctant duty to their ratepayers and seen to be doing the right thing my point, that viewpoint doesn't help our cause and realistically we don't have nor will have any organisation that will fight the cause So in essence desires of aire type arrangements as per France are wishful thinking I doubt at this point a reality
> 
> On a positive note it should be remembered all this came about in France not to enhance trade etc but an answer to pressure placed on tourist areas to solve a problem.Thankfully for our benefit authorites there have seen incremental benefits of increased trade but that was never the intention
> 
> 
> Other pastimes that have been popular down to pressures and irresponsible elements havs seen such as recreational off roading , trial riding banned en bloc in a lot of areas the wildcamping I see following the same path
> 
> Channa



Channa what can I say absolutely nail on the head.

I know I go on about an organisation to support us, but I also know that this is unlikely to come to fruition.

But I am also an optimist.

If sales of new Motorhomes start to slide due to this then we might see some government action.

I agree totally that much of the poor behaviour is based on ignorance, and not a deliberate act.

Great post channa.


----------



## Fisherman

channa said:


> One of my heaviest sessions and not planned was at Magbrins highland meet, Barnacle Bill of Dunbar may well remember along with Drew and Martin (royal Navy) it turned out into a home international and an an unhealthy appetite for tasting various whisky mixes
> 
> I hope and don't think we disturbed anyone and Margaret and Angus found it quite funny or at least took it in their stride and were good humoured,,,,the Inverness answer a Scotch pie not summat you find in Dewsbury but back in the harbour Weegie Dave the gaffer seemed louder than normal and I swear that bloody nail gun he got out on purpose
> 
> Channa



The best doos are never planned they just happen :cheers:


----------



## Fisherman

Fisherman said:


> We Scots have a rep for heavy boozing.
> 
> But the heaviest boozing I ever took part in involved a cricket match between Lancashire and Middlesex in Blackpool.
> 
> And I was the only Scot in our crowd, I could not keep up with the English guys.
> I have never been so drunk, I had a three day hangover.
> And two of the English guys went to work next day.
> They were roof workers would you beleive.



Forgot this bit.

We got to the ground two hours before the cricket started and I don’t remember a thing about the match.

But apparently I was telling anyone who would listen, that with a name like Angus Fraser the English fast bowler must be Scottish. :raofl:


----------



## runnach

Fisherman said:


> Forgot this bit.
> 
> We got to the ground two hours before the cricket started and I don’t remember a thing about the match.
> 
> But apparently I was telling anyone who would listen, that with a name like Angus Fraser he must be Scottish. :raofl:



My favourite two ronnies gag as newsreaders 


Och today a wee crew from the village of Buckie were fishing in the Pentland firth when they spotted a young lady bereft of most of her clothing floating in the water

Perished the poor wee lass, on the verge of hypothermia the victim 22 year old Swedish blonde of Helstaag in Sweden was pulled aboard ,,thanks to the quick thinking of the fisherman they threw an old Macintosh on her 

Later Mr Angus Mackintosh stated he wasn nee expecting that on the day oot form his care home !


Summat like that, a fantastic twisting of words and use of our language to raise a smile 

Channa


----------



## mistericeman

Fisherman said:


> Channa what can I say absolutely nail on the head.
> 
> I know I go on about an organisation to support us, but I also know that this is unlikely to come to fruition.
> 
> But I am also an optimist.
> 
> If sales of new Motorhomes start to slide due to this then we might see some government action.
> 
> I agree totally that much of the poor behaviour is based on ignorance, and not a deliberate act.
> 
> Great post channa.



Made not a jot of difference to the loss of legal byways to recreational use.... Something like 70% of driveable byways lost despite the hard work and efforts of organisations like the TRF/GLASS etc along with pressure from many clubs/forums etc...

None of it made a jot of difference AND still doesn't as, we lose more and, more byways.... 

Yes some idiotic users have far from helped efforts to keep byways open BUT by and large it was landowners/councils and walking groups that just didn't want us 'there'...

See any sort of parallel?


----------



## Fisherman

mistericeman said:


> Made not a jot of difference to the loss of legal byways to recreational use.... Something like 70% of driveable byways lost despite the hard work and efforts of organisations like the TRF/GLASS etc along with pressure from many clubs/forums etc...
> 
> None of it made a jot of difference AND still doesn't as, we lose more and, more byways....
> 
> Yes some idiotic users have far from helped efforts to keep byways open BUT by and large it was landowners/councils and walking groups that just didn't want us 'there'...
> 
> See any sort of parallel?



We make ourselves an easy target with no rep body.

And with the postings on here which I accept probably represents the feelings throughout there is no chance of one ever being formed.

Councils and councillors are like water, they always take the easy route.

But as I said earlier I am an optimist, and I hope that those members who enjoy such locations will one day (probably not in my lifetime) start to see things improve.
The government make a lot of money from us, and we are a growing group, possibly if people stop buying motorhomes and they start to lose out, and some lose their jobs things might change.

Others have highlighted concerns from hotel owners and I reckon that they are spot on on what they say.

But bottom line, we are being treated like ****, and it really makes me very angry, plain and simple.

I get your point about landowners I think, but many of us including myself are keen walkers, I have not noted any bad feelings from walkers towards us.
But I reckon you are better informed than me.


----------



## mistericeman

Fisherman said:


> We make ourselves an easy target with no rep body.
> 
> And with the postings on here which I accept probably represents the feelings throughout there is no chance of one ever being formed.
> 
> Councils and councillors are like water, they always take the easy route.
> 
> But as I said earlier I am an optimist, and I hope that those members who enjoy such locations will one day (probably not in my lifetime) start to see things improve.
> The government make a lot of money from us, and we are a growing group, possibly if people stop buying motorhomes and they start to lose out, and some lose their jobs things might change.
> 
> Others have highlighted concerns from hotel owners and I reckon that they are spot on on what they say.
> 
> But bottom line, we are being treated like ****, and it really makes me very angry, plain and simple.
> 
> I get your point about landowners I think, but many of us including myself are keen walkers, I have not noted any bad feelings from walkers towards us.
> But I reckon you are better informed than me.



I meant walkers as far as 4x4 vehicles are concerned NOT motorhomes.... 

All the usual avenues were tried as far as vehicular access was concerned... 
Generation of revenue (fuel/food/accomodation/footfall etc etc) even helping out at times of seasonal response (turning out on a voluntary basis in times of flood/extreme weather etc) 

And actually keeping byways open at no cost to local councils via voluntary repair works/actually keeping routes open via the passage of traffic etc... 
Several in my local Derbyshire peak district are now all but impassable to anything more than a single very lightly built redsock due to ingrowth of flora..... 

Frankly (and I hate to sound like a naysayer BUT) 
"We" are on a hiding to nowt as far as organising groups and turning the tide of dislike of motorhomes in some places....

No1
 folks by and large cannot be arsed (this is where the landowners/walkers pressure groups won as far as byway access is concerned.... They have both the numbers/time and funds to exert their pressure) 

No2
Folks that actually reside in many of the popular spots don't want to see endless numbers of white boxes parked up and spoiling 'Their' view (and businesses want folks wandering in and spending hand over fist as they've rocked up in a car with nothing other than what they stand up in AND a full wallet) 

No3 
Councils are generally so busy with their noses in the trough that they aren't arsed about anyone other than themselves AND getting voted in Again by the folks that live there.

No4 
We're often seen (rightly or wrongly) as aligned with the traveller community....
 And whilst there are many many thoroughly decent travellers there ARE segments (as in all walks of life) that have caused alarm bells to ring at the sight of any caravan/motorhome etc parked up anywhere other than an official camp site.

Sad state of affairs, 
BUT hey ho folks are starving and dying across big swathes of the world.... 

So we can't ALWAYS park where we would like with everything we desire .....

 1st world problems springs to mind.


----------



## Fisherman

mistericeman said:


> I meant walkers as far as 4x4 vehicles are concerned NOT motorhomes....
> 
> All the usual avenues were tried as far as vehicular access was concerned...
> Generation of revenue (fuel/food/accomodation/footfall etc etc) even helping out at times of seasonal response (turning out on a voluntary basis in times of flood/extreme weather etc)
> 
> And actually keeping byways open at no cost to local councils via voluntary repair works/actually keeping routes open via the passage of traffic etc...
> Several in my local Derbyshire peak district are now all but impassable to anything more than a single very lightly built redsock due to ingrowth of flora.....
> 
> Frankly (and I hate to sound like a naysayer BUT)
> "We" are on a hiding to nowt as far as organising groups and turning the tide of dislike of motorhomes in some places....
> 
> No1
> folks by and large cannot be arsed (this is where the landowners/walkers pressure groups won as far as byway access is concerned.... They have both the numbers/time and funds to exert their pressure)
> 
> No2
> Folks that actually reside in many of the popular spots don't want to see endless numbers of white boxes parked up and spoiling 'Their' view (and businesses want folks wandering in and spending hand over fist as they've rocked up in a car with nothing other than what they stand up in AND a full wallet)
> 
> No3
> Councils are generally so busy with their noses in the trough that they aren't arsed about anyone other than themselves AND getting voted in Again by the folks that live there.
> 
> No4
> We're often seen (rightly or wrongly) as aligned with the traveller community....
> And whilst there are many many thoroughly decent travellers there ARE segments (as in all walks of life) that have caused alarm bells to ring at the sight of any caravan/motorhome etc parked up anywhere other than an official camp site.
> 
> Sad state of affairs,
> BUT hey ho folks are starving and dying across big swathes of the world....
> 
> So we can't ALWAYS park where we would like with everything we desire .....
> 
> 1st world problems springs to mind.



I agree almost entirely with your post.
Yes currently we are being right royalty shafted and treated like that four letter word not allowed on here.
You know what comes out your rear and smells like it.

But that only makes me even angrier.
But if by some miracle a body is formed I would not only be happy to pay my dues, I would more than be happy to give some of my time and effort. 

It’s strange how the whole of Europe welcomes us, yet they persist in waging war against us here.

I agree with channa, much of the poor practice not all, is due to ignorance.
But it’s also due to a complete lack of facilities.

Take the Isle of Mull. It’s a large island recently opened up due to road tariff equivalent ferry fares.
(£38 return for a 6m mh and 2 passengers)
Now how many waste disposal points are available to wild campers.
One between 12 and 2 in the Tobermory campsite at £10 a go.

And they wonder why there are problems.

Yes I agree with much of what you say, but it does not make it right or just.

Ps did the grand ridge on the Peak District this year.
Enjoyed it appart from the crowds, and found the paved pathway a bit strange.
Never seen anything like it up here, must have cost millions.
But I suppose with the amount of walkers it was required to avoid damage.


----------



## caledonia

Your at the honeypot again. Tobermory campsite is overrated and overpriced. Fidden Farm is far better if it’s a site you want and if you ask nicely you can dump waste for free and carry on wildcamping. The freedom your camper gives allows you to seek out the best spots and leave the campsites to the tuggers.


----------



## maureenandtom

We always fight, if we fight at all, in response to proposed restrictions.  That's natural.  We rarely campaign to councils who either already provide overnight parking or to those who have no restrictions.   We're always fighting a battle that councils have already spent time and money on organising.   Self interested councillors, often proven, who have had time to achieve loyalty from their colleagues.   We have this myth of the campaigning residents;  they just do not exist;  there are few records of them.       

After a lengthy, expensive time of preparing a TRO or Off=street Parking Order or PSPO, we think we can change it just because we disagree with it?  We should have very little chance and we do have very little chance. A losing battle.

The wonder is that we sometimes succeed.


----------



## Fisherman

caledonia said:


> Your at the honeypot again. Tobermory campsite is overrated and overpriced. Fidden Farm is far better if it’s a site you want and if you ask nicely you can dump waste for free and carry on wildcamping. The freedom your camper gives allows you to seek out the best spots and leave the campsites to the tuggers.



This would entail a 44 mile round trip from Tobermory along single track roads.

I would reckon it would cost around £15 in fuel costs alone, so the £10 fee asked at Tobermory would actually be cheaper. Looks like the honeypot option may be better value. 
Also you say they will let you empty your toilet for free, would you not offer to pay.
Or would you leave paying nothing and add to our poor reputation.

You could have mentioned crannch farm in Salen.

I have never used a campsite on mull and I don’t know what a tugger is. But I assume it’s yet another derogatory term from you when describing someone who thinks differently from your esteemed self. If some wish to use campsites on mull fair play to them that’s their choice.


But the leaflet handed out by calmac only mentioned the site at Tobermory when we were there in May.
Possibly things are changing for the better on mull.


----------



## mickymost

Fisherman said:


> This would entail a 44 mile round trip from Tobermory along single track roads.
> 
> I would reckon it would cost around £15 in fuel costs alone, so the £10 fee asked at Tobermory would actually be cheaper. Looks like the honeypot option may be better value.
> Also you say they will let you empty your toilet for free, would you not offer to pay.
> Or would you leave paying nothing and add to our poor reputation.
> 
> You could have mentioned crannch farm in Salen.
> 
> I have never used a campsite on mull and I don’t know what a tugger is. But I assume it’s yet another derogatory term from you when describing someone who thinks differently from your esteemed self. If some wish to use campsites on mull fair play to them that’s their choice.
> 
> 
> But the leaflet handed out by calmac only mentioned the site at Tobermory when we were there in May.
> Possibly things are changing for the better on mull.



I think a tugger is a caravan puller? Ie someone who tows a caravan

Michael


----------



## caledonia

Fisherman said:


> This would entail a 44 mile round trip from Tobermory along single track roads.
> 
> I would reckon it would cost around £15 in fuel costs alone, so the £10 fee asked at Tobermory would actually be cheaper. Looks like the honeypot option may be better value.
> Also you say they will let you empty your toilet for free, would you not offer to pay.
> Or would you leave paying nothing and add to our poor reputation.
> 
> You could have mentioned crannch farm in Salen.
> 
> I have never used a campsite on mull and I don’t know what a tugger is. But I assume it’s yet another derogatory term from you when describing someone who thinks differently from your esteemed self. If some wish to use campsites on mull fair play to them that’s their choice.
> 
> 
> But the leaflet handed out by calmac only mentioned the site at Tobermory when we were there in May.
> Possibly things are changing for the better on mull.



A tugger is a term used on the forum to describe a caravan user, not derogatory just a bit of fun. I would always offer payment when for emptying waste but refuse to be ripped off. Mull is a beautiful island with amazing wildlife and a 44mile run on the single track roads would make me feel better than being ripped of by a greedy campsite. Fidden Farm is a wee gem and Jimmy and Christine who own it are an extremely nice couple. 
Please don’t think I’m having a go at you, I’m only offering an alternative to Tobermory site.


----------



## Fisherman

caledonia said:


> A tugger is a term used on the forum to describe a caravan user, not derogatory just a bit of fun. I would always offer payment when for emptying waste but refuse to be ripped off. Mull is a beautiful island with amazing wildlife and a 44mile run on the single track roads would make me feel better than being ripped of by a greedy campsite. Fidden Farm is a wee gem and Jimmy and Christine who own it are an extremely nice couple.
> Please don’t think I’m having a go at you, I’m only offering an alternative to Tobermory site.



Killiecronan at the head of Loch na keal is wonderful spot. In the wooded area on the northern side of the Loch there are two parking spots, and within the wooded area there are several fish eagles. Along the river ba which flows into the sea if your are careful and lucky you can see otters. And Loch ba is a stunning Loch with a walkway that takes you towards the rear of Ben More. Also there is a very basic campsite there run by the local farmer. It’s so basic I don’t regard it as a campsite, but the views down the Loch and towards Ben more are stunning. 

Yes it’s a beautiful island and let’s hope it stays that way.


----------



## landoboguy

signs erected today on one side of the prom down at the yacht club end


----------



## eyup

*so, caravans can stay then?*

We've stayed at NB for a couple of weekends this year - loved it.  Shame about the new rules as we were all out of the way.  If the signs state no motorcaravans.  Does this exclude caravans then?  there were a couple on the sea front and more on the road behind, all looked like they'd been there for months.  Unfair if they are still allowed to park.


----------



## landoboguy

eyup said:


> We've stayed at NB for a couple of weekends this year - loved it.  Shame about the new rules as we were all out of the way.  If the signs state no motorcaravans.  Does this exclude caravans then?  there were a couple on the sea front and more on the road behind, all looked like they'd been there for months.  Unfair if they are still allowed to park.


Im back here this weekend, and Ive a feeling the signs will also be up on the coast side as paint markings were done 2 weeks ago.

Ill report back


----------



## runnach

To a larger extent local government structure silences our voice as to the same extent liasing with MPS

Assuming there was a Uk organisation organised, solvent and with the legal knowledge councils will still ignore

Any MP or local council only has the obligation to deal with people who live in their wards and constituency there is no  obligation to deal with any external interest

So like the 4x4s wildcamping / wildparking overnioght is fighting on the back foot from the first bell

Channa


----------



## peter palance

*p.s.*



Lodclwyd said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Looks like the local moaners are about to have their way with respect to the promenade stop-over at Wallasey. See attached documents. I really can't understand what the problem is, as the spot is well away from everything. The crazy thing is that the restricted parking is only in a small area so the vans will just be able to move along a bit to avoid it. Looks imminent.
> 
> 
> View attachment 68411View attachment 68413View attachment 68412



did you read the bottom,consers.  pj


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## maureenandtom

This is another of those we already knew a little about.   We explored it a little in 

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...-eyes-councils-2.html?highlight=maureenandtom


after first reading about it in

Residents' anger over camper van owners | Wirral Globe

where some of the comments are very interesting.

r4dent (thank you) was able to find the parking report at

https://democracy.wirral.gov.uk/documents/s50050920/Campervans BusinessOS 27Mar18.pdf

and it's all worth reading again.   Particularly the bit in the report which gave hope that we would have a council approved overnighting area.  Appendix 1







I think this was an opportunity lost.   We should all have emailed our support.  Now, if only we had a group with enough numbers to have captured this council's attention.


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## mickymost

So do we know what has been decided now by the local council? Anyone stayed there recently?

Michael


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## runnach

maureenandtom said:


> This is another of those we already knew a little about.   We explored it a little in
> 
> https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...-eyes-councils-2.html?highlight=maureenandtom
> 
> 
> after first reading about it in
> 
> Residents' anger over camper van owners | Wirral Globe
> 
> where some of the comments are very interesting.
> 
> r4dent (thank you) was able to find the parking report at
> 
> https://democracy.wirral.gov.uk/documents/s50050920/Campervans BusinessOS 27Mar18.pdf
> 
> and it's all worth reading again.   Particularly the bit in the report which gave hope that we would have a council approved overnighting area.  Appendix 1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this was an opportunity lost.   We should all have emailed our support.  Now, if only we had a group with enough numbers to have captured this council's attention.



I need to eat a portion of humble pie, the issue I have stated is we can only hit councils if we are resident legally they are allowed to do it 

But People power can work one success of the Motorcycle Action Group is convincing Birmingham Council to allow riding in bus lanes, Whilst not relevant to our cause it does suggest a well structured voice can work 

A link here for you to garner one or two ideas

Motorcycle Action Group

channa


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## maureenandtom

channa said:


> I need to eat a portion of humble pie, the issue I have stated is we can only hit councils if we are resident legally they are allowed to do it
> 
> But People power can work one success of the Motorcycle Action Group is convincing Birmingham Council to allow riding in bus lanes, Whilst not relevant to our cause it does suggest a well structured voice can work
> 
> A link here for you to garner one or two ideas
> 
> Motorcycle Action Group
> 
> channa



No need for humble pie.  You're correct.   If I'm right then councils will stop using off-street parking orders and TROs and use Public Spaces Protection Orders.  We have very little we can do about them.  In my opinion PSPOs enable just about the worst advancement in those who want a dictatorial local government.   From the councils' point of view they now have an opportunity to create the worst restrictions on freedoms and we have little come-back.    Live in a posh tower block?   Fed up with teenage visitors?   Ban them.   Kids coming home from school being a nuisance in groups?   Got friends on the council?      Ban them - the kids, not the councillors.   Think people shouln't smoke in the street?   Ban them.

PSPOs: the new control orders threatening our public spaces | Cities | The Guardian






And many of us will approve - until councils come after a freedom we hold dear.


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