# What to check and ask before purchase.



## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 4, 2008)

As some will know I have been on the brink of buying a van to pretty much fulltime in for a few years.
I am now at the point where I am almost ready to buy, hopefully house sale will have gone through in next couple of weeks or so. 
Having had caravans in the past, I have an idea what to look for and what to avoid, but thought I might utilise the brains on the site to give me a few pointers.
We are looking to buy from Germany as cost is cheaper, what I want is for anyone that can give me either something specific to check either visually or with dealer, and also a question that you think would be useful to ask.

I am bound to get halfway hokme and think Bugger I didnt check that or I should have asked this before I left home, hopefully with your combined help I can avoid this or at least keep it to a minimum.

Many Thanks in advance.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 4, 2008)

there are lots of things you need to check , but here are a few has the van been serviced and a new timing belt fitted very important  as per buying in the uk. also has there been a gas and electrics check done habitation plus operating instructions for heating and cooking fittings present ,all documentation is correct and upto date and do a inspection yourself of all the vans fluids, i dont know how you go on with warranties as i have never bought from overseas but i know you can have probs with ones from over here and it is a long way to go back for any work needed. just check and double check and good luck hope this may be of some use to you.


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 4, 2008)

Brilliant thanks Mandrake thats exactly the sort of post I was hoping for, I am just hoping that with everyones help I will miss nothing at all. As you say it is a long way to push it back if there is a problem


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## walkers (Nov 4, 2008)

Mine had a brand new habitation check and TUV {german mot} before i collected it. A bottle of gas and continental hook up lead, warning triangles and first aid  kit put in before collection. Give it a really good check over and make sure everything works before you drive away, i had only got a few miles before i found out i had no water pump for the taps so was able to go back and get it sorted but if you check before you leave there should be no need to return.
Tony


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## jimmnlizz (Nov 4, 2008)

Hi Hazy-thoughts, it may be a good idea to have a couple of nights on a site near to where you buy MH from.  That way you will see if things are OK for day and night time.  Then you can go back the following morning if things are not as they should be!    Like you said, its a long push back!!!   Good luck with your search......it's part of the fun......looking!!  JIM.


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 4, 2008)

Thankyou Tony and Jim, very much appreciate you guys sharing your knowledge, I am getting increasingly excited yet very nervous at the same time, I just want everything to go as well as possible and am desperately trying to cover all options and possible problems that may arise.


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## Belgian (Nov 4, 2008)

Have a look at the TÜV the seller has to hand over. It should be technically OK.  If the MH is younger than 4 years it should have been the 1st TÜV.
The mileage is mentioned on the TÜV. Check if this corresponds with the wearing of the rubbers on the pedals. Normally the clutch pedal is a little bit more worn out than the brake one. If this is not or the rubbers are new the speedo-meter could have been turned back. 
Check out everyting works: heater, boiler, fridge, pump. Most of these things are German brands and should be OK (Truma, Electrolux-Swedish.) for you cannot always find spares for it in the UK.
For awning and bike rack: Omnistore is better than Fiamma.


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## Deleted member 207 (Nov 4, 2008)

Buying new should give you the same warranty on the vehicle as if you bought in the UK - eg engine, gearbox, etc. The warranty on the bodybuild will depend on who you bought from, but usually warranty issues are dealt with by the dealer who sold you the vehicle - they have an allowance built into their selling price (to you) to deal with small cost warranty items. Thats why other dealers are always reluctant to handle small warranty items as they dont get reimbursed unless they can do a deal with the dealer who sold you the van. Large cost warranty items are usually paid for by the factory.

If you cant speak German, buy from someone who speaks English!!! Using sign language to buy a vehicle is fraught with danger.

Buying used, you are on your own, but there are people around who can do the legwork in searching out good used vehicles. I know of a guy in Denmark who makes his living from sourcing vehicles from Germany for Danes.

German registered vehicles have to undergo gas testing every two years and a proof certificate has to be issued from new http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/Roger_Martin/gastestcert011.jpg and
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/Roger_Martin/gastestcert012.jpg
are examples of the latest certs that I have, there are older ones with different styles, the newer ones have a list of all the tests that the examiner must do.

Buy a vehicle with an LPG tank, so much easier than lugging bottles around and they take up a lot less room if they are under the chassis, a lot cheaper as you can fill up with Autogas - although you need 3 adaptors to cover all of Europe, the dealers in Germany are sure to have them. Bear in mind that Germany uses metric olive gas fittings and not BSP flares, so parts maybe a problem down the track if you get a leaky fitting. The appliances operate at 50mBar gas pressure, I think the UK operates at 30mBar.......anyone know for sure? Look at the gas piping and make sure that they have nt got lots of pipe joints inside the vehicle, ideally there should only be joins at gas taps prior to each appliance or under the vehicle. Make sure that there is a 12V gas pipe heater prior to the regulator if you intend using the vehicle in really cold climates - stops the gas pipe freezing up solid.

Electrical items will have the two pin Euro plugs so you will need travel adaptors to fit any UK 3 pin appliances. Check that the earth trip works and has the CE markings on it. Check that all of the window interlocks work if a gas appliance has an exhaust under a window, eg open window turns off gas appliance.

The TUV is (IMHO) not as strict as the UK MOT, but that maybe over things like rust that wont pass in the UK but seem to be ok in Germany. A current TUV will also give an emmissions test report - stricter than the UK. I have nt got a scanned image of a TUV and emmissions but I'll try and do one later to day. 

You can only get a one month export plate/registration unless you have an address and residents permit for Germany. The plate includes green card insurance for one month. The previous owner has to surrender their registraion plates, so can help you with the export plate.

The German auto club ADAC offers pre purchase inspections, I think if you are a member of the AA or RAC then you can get them at member rates. Lookup ADAC on the web, they have an English option. Get hold of a copy of the AA pre inspection checklist and use that yourself if you mechanically minded - but its difficult to jack up a vehicle and check suspension bushes, brake shoes/pads, especially if there are language problems.

I'd use the one month export plate to travel around the Continent, iron out all the teething problems, go back to the dealer after a couple of weeks with a list and then let them fix it up.


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## walkers (Nov 5, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> Thankyou Tony and Jim, very much appreciate you guys sharing your knowledge, I am getting increasingly excited yet very nervous at the same time, I just want everything to go as well as possible and am desperately trying to cover all options and possible problems that may arise.


 Another thought that has just occured, when i went to buy my van a couple from ireland who had bought their hymer there were 'camping' on the car park at the dealer while they waited for some extras to be fitted. I suppose it is feasible if you ask they may let you do this for a night or two to make sure everything in the van is ok, just ask after all you wouldn't want to get nearly back to calais before you found something wrong.
Regards Tony


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks very much Roger and Belgian, your thoughts and ideas have been digested and will be very useful when I am ready to collect the van.

Cheers also Tony, It might well be an idea to stop overnight at the garage or certainly within a short journey from the garage to check everything over properly.

Any other hints or tips very much appreciated


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## Nosha (Nov 6, 2008)

Sorry but the FIRST thing to do is carry out an HPI check to make sure it's NOT stolen, NOT on finance and NOT an insurance write-off!!!

Then follow the advice of the other guys... service history etc. Good luck, apart from a house it's the BIGGEST purchase we've ever made and I'm sure it's the same for you!


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 12, 2008)

It certainly is Nosha, and thanks for the advice


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## Belgian (Nov 12, 2008)

Here is a model buyers agreement in German:
http://www.abgcampertechniek.nl/consument/kaufvrtr.pdf


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 12, 2008)

Nosha said:


> Sorry but the FIRST thing to do is carry out an HPI check to make sure it's NOT stolen, NOT on finance and NOT an insurance write-off!!!
> 
> Then follow the advice of the other guys... service history etc. Good luck, apart from a house it's the BIGGEST purchase we've ever made and I'm sure it's the same for you!



may be wrong but will a uk h.p.i check cover a non uk purchase, dont know of a foreign check the equivalent in the uk as i have never bought abroad . be nice to find out though.


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## messenger 2.5td (Nov 12, 2008)

*What to check before purchase*

Do the aa or the rac offer checks for their members on vehicles purchased abroad?Andy.


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## Deleted member 207 (Nov 12, 2008)

The process of changing ownership in Germany is a bit different, the original owner has to surrender the number plates issued to them at the registration office, produce all the registration, ownership documents and their identity papers to the authorities who check the VIN and (I assume) a police vehicle check as it took about two hours. Then the new owner can get their number plates after providing ID, bill of sale, compulsory insurance, etc.
I think that official proof of ownership is the registration document - but I'm not 100% sure.
The company (choice of two) selling the insurance and issuing the number plates had a computer so maybe the ownership check is done at that point.

The Government process was not computerised - that I could see anyway - documents are typed, details are typed onto an old style "logbook" (remember those pre Swansea when each County issued registration) that includes previous owners' details. I am not sure if the process varies in different States within Germany, it may do as Germany is a Federated state.


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks Roger


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## Belgian (Nov 12, 2008)

When you buy in Germany: VAT is 16%
Generally, when you pay chash in €  (in 100€ bills) the seller will lower the price.
Ask the German dealer a to provide a German ‘Ausberährungs’ licence plate (export plate). They have a limited time (you can choose this) they go with an insurance (about 250€ for a month)

German omnium-insurances pay 100% back of a new car in the first 6 months. There are a lot of 2nd hands with a minor scratch or bump on it which where returned to the garage that way. Buy your vehicle by a big dealer, not by one of these small obscure 2nd handers ‘Ossies’ or ex-eastblockers. Big dealers keep the good 2nd hands for themselves.


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 13, 2008)

So woulld this 16% already be included in the sale price Belgian, or is that a hidden extra thats waiting for me when I get there


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## walkers (Nov 14, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> So woulld this 16% already be included in the sale price Belgian, or is that a hidden extra thats waiting for me when I get there


 When I bought mine the vat was in the price, if you don't pay it there you will have to hand 17.5% to customs when you get home. Ask your seller but from experience most dealers include it in the price. Also re your other thread MOT ask your local garage to see if it will fit on their ramp, mine measured first then we drove carefully on to the ramp had about an inch either side but it fit on and was tested there.
Regards Tony


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 14, 2008)

Bugger, I was under the impression that if the vehicle was over a certain age there was no Vat payable. Could someone clarify this


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## walkers (Nov 14, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> Bugger, I was under the impression that if the vehicle was over a certain age there was no Vat payable. Could someone clarify this


If it is payable pay it in germany, but if it is it will normally be in the price you pay.
Don't stress ask the germans you are buying from, where we got ours they are very knowledgable and it will be in the price you pay.
Don't forget to get your forms from dvla before you go then they will be ready to send off/take in when you get back, amongst them is a customs declaration declare it as your new means of transport and don't forget they can insist on inspecting it above and beyond the mot. They didn't with mine and I think (not know) that if it is a common marque they don't usually bother. Change your fog/reversing lightss over if needed, for the mot you will need to deflect your headlights to the left (technically these should be replaced with rhd headlights if they can't be adjusted) my mot tester accepted beam deflectors. You should also technically replace your speedo dial or by some other accurate means make it capable of reading mph, it is not however part of the mot surprisingly.
I've now imported mine to spain and the test is much more involved, and the costs far greater.
It might seem like a pain in the behind now but it is far easier than I had thought it was gonna be to bring a german van to the uk, and I am sure you will find it worthwhile .

Good Luck and enjoy the experience
Regards Tony


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## Belgian (Nov 14, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> So woulld this 16% already be included in the sale price Belgian, or is that a hidden extra thats waiting for me when I get there


VAT is included in the price.


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 14, 2008)

walkers said:


> If it is payable pay it in germany, but if it is it will normally be in the price you pay.
> Don't stress ask the germans you are buying from, where we got ours they are very knowledgable and it will be in the price you pay.
> Don't forget to get your forms from dvla before you go then they will be ready to send off/take in when you get back, amongst them is a customs declaration declare it as your new means of transport and don't forget they can insist on inspecting it above and beyond the mot. They didn't with mine and I think (not know) that if it is a common marque they don't usually bother. Change your fog/reversing lightss over if needed, for the mot you will need to deflect your headlights to the left (technically these should be replaced with rhd headlights if they can't be adjusted) my mot tester accepted beam deflectors. You should also technically replace your speedo dial or by some other accurate means make it capable of reading mph, it is not however part of the mot surprisingly.
> I've now imported mine to spain and the test is much more involved, and the costs far greater.
> ...



Thanks Tony, 

I am actuallly buying from the same dealer as you did, and have spoken to Carsten.....Very helpful Appreciate the info


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## walkers (Nov 14, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> Thanks Tony,
> 
> I am actuallly buying from the same dealer as you did, and have spoken to Carsten.....Very helpful Appreciate the info


 which van is it ? looking on their site now.


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## walkers (Nov 14, 2008)

Found it it's a beauty, don't forget to try and get it a bit cheaper. They dropped on mine not as much as i would have liked but enough, also if you are thinking of any extras (although it's loaded anyway) they can arrange to fit them for you.
Regards Tony


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## Billyb (Nov 14, 2008)

*Don't Shoot !!!!*

I don't expect this will be popular but.... I bought from Brownhills Please read on !! I have researched for about 8 months looking for a Hymer 544 & was all set to go to Germany but with the Euro on steroids I found that Brownhills were about 4grand cheaper than Germany for the same age, spec, mileage- I was amazed. BTW I was using www.mobile.de for the research if thats any use to you ( You can set the site to English) Like I said - don't shoot !!!

regards

Bri


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 14, 2008)

walkers said:


> Found it it's a beauty, don't forget to try and get it a bit cheaper. They dropped on mine not as much as i would have liked but enough, also if you are thinking of any extras (although it's loaded anyway) they can arrange to fit them for you.
> Regards Tony



Thanks Tony, Pm mate........Sorry


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## Hazy-thoughts (Nov 14, 2008)

Billyb said:


> I don't expect this will be popular but.... I bought from Brownhills Please read on !! I have researched for about 8 months looking for a Hymer 544 & was all set to go to Germany but with the Euro on steroids I found that Brownhills were about 4grand cheaper than Germany for the same age, spec, mileage- I was amazed. BTW I was using www.mobile.de for the research if thats any use to you ( You can set the site to English) Like I said - don't shoot !!!
> 
> regards
> 
> Bri



Many Thanks Billy

I have looked around UK but at this moment cant find an example of the model I am after for sale 

Generally when they are they are a bit more expensive than the ones I have been following in Germany, but appreciate the input mate, I guess you struck lucky with your van.


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## Billyb (Nov 16, 2008)

Think I did - most of my mates think I need my bumps felt for venturing in to Brownhills. Good luck with the search


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## Hazy-thoughts (Dec 16, 2008)

Just to let you guys know I have found a motorhome.
I visited Germany last week and inspected, test drove and made a deal there and then. I travel back tomorrow to collect the vehicle.


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## walkers (Dec 16, 2008)

Hazy-thoughts said:


> Just to let you guys know I have found a motorhome.
> I visited Germany last week and inspected, test drove and made a deal there and then. I travel back tomorrow to collect the vehicle.


 Have a good trip over and enjoy the drive home.
Regards Tony


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## lenny (Dec 16, 2008)

It must feel like Christmas has come early for you Hazy, I bet you,re so excited you can,t sleep, I,m so jealous

Enjoy your new van


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## Hazy-thoughts (Dec 17, 2008)

It does a little Lenny


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## Deleted member 4053 (Dec 17, 2008)

*new van*

Drive carefully and enjoy!
Great news.
merry xmas

weez
Tony


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## Hazy-thoughts (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks Wee z

All I have to do now is negotiate the German transport system which seems to be doing it's very best to scupper my plans


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