# full timing aboard in a Autotrail chieftain tag axel



## markymo (Aug 4, 2016)

Hi me and the missus are selling up and going full timing permanently ' now I have full timed before for 2 years in total but only in the uk which I found easy with no issues and always wild camped I had a Hymer 644 this was ok for me on my own but it would have felt cramped with 2 people ' so we have been looking at motorhomes and came to the conclusion that a Autotrail chieftain G fits the bill with a big garage for scooter and lots of living space ' has anyone got or had a tag axel Autotrail??? any advice would be great


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## Wooie1958 (Aug 4, 2016)

My first concern would be that the Autotrail Chieftain G is not fully winterised  were as the Hymer 644 would have been.


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## Beemer (Aug 4, 2016)

Wooie1958 said:


> My first concern would be that the Autotrail Chieftain G is not fully winterised  were as the Hymer 644 would have been.


Ditto that... go german A Class, more room.


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## markymo (Aug 4, 2016)

Wooie1958 said:


> My first concern would be that the Autotrail Chieftain G is not fully winterised  were as the Hymer 644 would have been.



Hi we have looked at  both the hobby 750 and the Hymer 694 and 754 and to be honest we have found both to small ' the winter problem had crossed my mind as well but the only problem I for see is the fresh water tank under the van can you think of any others ???


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## Touringtheworld (Aug 4, 2016)

markymo said:


> Hi we have looked at  both the hobby 750 and the Hymer 694 and 754 and to be honest we have found both to small ' the winter problem had crossed my mind as well but the only problem I for see is the fresh water tank under the van can you think of any others ???



Insulation - unseen 

It can be damn cold in a poorly insulated MH. 

No disrespect to Autotrial but they just put a bigger heater in to cover the lack of winter insulation.


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## markymo (Aug 4, 2016)

Beemer said:


> Ditto that... go german A Class, more room.


We have looked at lots of vans mostly German and the kitchen areas are nearly always lacking ' the hobby 750 and Hymer 754 being very good ' but then they have no garage for a scooter so that's how we have came to the Autotrail


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## markymo (Aug 4, 2016)

Touringtheworld said:


> Insulation - unseen
> 
> It can be damn cold in a poorly insulated MH.
> 
> ...


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## 4x4man (Aug 4, 2016)

*chieftain*



markymo said:


> Hi me and the missus are selling up and going full timing permanently ' now I have full timed before for 2 years in total but only in the uk which I found easy with no issues and always wild camped I had a Hymer 644 this was ok for me on my own but it would have felt cramped with 2 people ' so we have been looking at motorhomes and came to the conclusion that a Autotrail chieftain G fits the bill with a big garage for scooter and lots of living space ' has anyone got or had a tag axel Autotrail??? any advice would be great



Hi 
I have a chieftain se, I cant think of any advice to give just yet but I would say, we bought ours to travel in comfort and have found it to be the best van I could ever have got. I t fits all our needs and some. I hope you enjoy yours half as much as we do ours.


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## maingate (Aug 4, 2016)

If you get a European van with a double floor, everything is insulated.

Fit a Scooter rack on the back and you can use all that lovely storage for other things.


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## vwalan (Aug 4, 2016)

just go to warmer climates in winter . 1 inch polystyrene is enough in the right country and you wont need to put your heater on . 
winsum .........starts in november finish,s in april . winter summer. 
save your money dont buy one of then german crap conversions just smile be happy and wave good bye to the rest.


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## barryd (Aug 4, 2016)

Static Camper said:


> Same with swift they only pass the tests because they are running heating at full bore
> Our laika was fully winterised unlike British junk
> Strange thing is the British vans hold their money ?



Rubbish.  Most of them are Grade 3 insulated just like most motorhomes, British or German.  Our Kontiki is Grade 3 and designed to hold an internal temperature of 20c when its -20 outside.  It does, Ive tested it.  Ours has internal fresh tanks anyway but you can get heaters for external ones.  If I was going abroad full timing I personally would be somewhere warm in the winter anyway.  Where is the OP intending to overwinter?

I wouldnt let internal or external tanks put you off.


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## vwalan (Aug 4, 2016)

Static Camper said:


> Having owned one and seen how it is built and insulated I stand by my comments , as for tank heaters that are electrically powered ok on sites but about as much use as a chocolate firegaurd when wikding .
> The laika even had small ducting directing blown air heating to insulated covers on the tank dump valves .
> Anyone who has taken an English van skiing soon learns and either sells of carries out many modifications all well documented on motorhome forums .



just go somewhere warm . in the last twenty years only had 2 winters in uk. far nicer to be in spain or morocco. 
do need the catalytic heater on if high up in the atlas mountains at -17c but then next day get down into the desert or back by the coast . think i have only used it about twice in the past 8 years . its nicer in the warmth.
if you like i,m sure barry and me can keep repeating ourselves .
go to the warmer countries in winter . its called winsum ..
winter summer.


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## sigma (Aug 4, 2016)

*Chieftain*

I've got one that I'm thinking of selling, it's got all the toys including a generator, pm me if you're interested.


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## 2cv (Aug 4, 2016)

I use my British van all year round with no problem. Toasty warm inside at -15 outside with plenty of heating capacity to spare, and never yet had a frozen pipe.


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## maingate (Aug 4, 2016)

You could always do what Alan does and buy an old henhouse, nail it on to a trailer and tow it down to Morocco. Then you spend 3 months living in a Wadi until the warm weather returns to Blighty.


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## markymo (Aug 5, 2016)

*English vans*

Well I've started something here ' in my experience the  old German vans (20 years old ) were  better than the same age English van'  but from 2005 I think the English vans are better than the German Vans and far cheaper new .
We are planning spending are winters in hot climates so water tanks won't really be a problem


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## vwalan (Aug 5, 2016)

markymo said:


> Well I've started something here ' in my experience the  old German vans (20 years old ) were  better than the same age English van'  but from 2005 I think the English vans are better than the German Vans and far cheaper new .
> We are planning spending are winters in hot climates so water tanks won't really be a problem



you will have no problems . spain and portugal are both ok but inland spain is very cold as its so high up. snow can be thick on the ground . and yes 3 months -90days in morocco mid december till mid march soon makes it very warm . but again cold in the mountains . havnt done maroc for 4 years got a bit fed up going . my mates are still going every year. 
but have fun might catch you on the road one day. 
self build is the way though ,you build just what you need ,want to suit your lifestyle . 
i find truck conversions are best. dont use prison-campsites dont need them . 
get loads of solar on the roof and you can be sorted for power , never been cheaper than it is at moment . 
45,000 m,homes visit morocco in the winter so i think they all cant be wrong ,plus spain /portugal is full as well.


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## Byronic (Aug 5, 2016)

Winsum, makes me wince some, I think I prefer something winsome.

Don't know that any mainstream manufacturer (OK perhaps Concorde, or Clou) makes a van really suitable for fulltiming, or at least one conforming to my definition of such a van. They leave that niche market to the custom builders or self builders. Nearly all build to suit weekend use with the annual 4 week holiday in mind, which probably covers 95% of their customer requirements, the main variation in any range being the number of berths, or a tweak in the layout. Italian vans often seem to be prime examples, with specs. typically comprising 6 berths, a kitchen comprising a sink bowl and a 2 burner ring all on a 3.2 tonne Fiat. 

The allowable payload is the giveaway, even something like the Chieftain (MAM 4.5 tonnes?) only has 1 tonne? By the time you load a scooter, water, gas, chairs the wife, most of that's gone. So at best you're continually running at or near maximum capacity for brakes, tyres, suspension, not good in my book, and at worst possibly overweight on axle or overall.
If you're going over 3.5 tonnes then you might as well get as near as possible to 7.5 tonnes.


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## Touringtheworld (Aug 5, 2016)

vwalan said:


> just go to warmer climates in winter . 1 inch polystyrene is enough in the right country and you wont need to put your heater on .
> winsum .........starts in november finish,s in april . winter summer.
> save your money dont buy one of then german crap conversions just smile be happy and wave good bye to the rest.



Is that all the German manufacturers?


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## vwalan (Aug 5, 2016)

Touringtheworld said:


> Is that all the German manufacturers?



well some are better than others but really self build is far better . 
you then know where every thing is and works and can have a few bits to fix minor things that happen . 
i must say i was into vw,s but the devon conversions or even the j,p white conversions done in the uk far excelled the german conversions even in the 60,s . 
today get a good truck  or library vehicle . or prison truck and go for it . much less expensive and the money saved can be used to use it . 
in german conversions they only use the same products as uk built ones , mind cooking facilities are poor compared to uk ones . you just pay alot for them as the germans get higher wages . its not hard to work out . 
mind soon the chinese campers will be over here and the chinese rv,s then we might get quality at a good price . 
untill then go on do it yourself .


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## Byronic (Aug 6, 2016)

Static Camper said:


> Sad thing is everything today is built to a price not a standard , some of the bathroom fittings and kitchen sinks , taps etc we have to fit look ok but sad thing is most of the time customer would have been better off not bothering .
> Having had new and secondhand motorhomes and looking at literally thousands they are getting worse by the day .



Isn't that just a tad too negative Victor? As you say "built to a price not a standard" but I'd suggest that if you are willing to pay a "high price" you can get high standards/quality even these days, and even in the rosy past this was in reality also much the same case . If a business chose to ignore that simple tenet it soon went to the wall, survival of the fittest for purpose and all that, was applicable then as it is now.


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## maingate (Aug 6, 2016)

Byronic said:


> Isn't that just a tad too negative Victor? As you say "built to a price not a standard" but I'd suggest that if you are willing to pay a "high price" you can get high standards/quality even these days, and even in the rosy past this was in reality also much the same case . If a business chose to ignore that simple tenet it soon went to the wall, survival of the fittest for purpose and all that, was applicable then as it is now.



It has been a long time since that applied. People want 'cheap' not 'quality'. Add in the fact that there is no C1 type of entitlement in Europe and vans have to be no more than 3.5T, still have a reasonable payload yet have big fridge/freezers and all the other bells and whistles. Lightweight materials will not have the ruggedness and life of older vans. If you want quality, the price differential is very big.


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## vwalan (Aug 6, 2016)

germany had over 3.5 ton licences they changed same time as us in uk. but even back then the kitchen facilities in german vans was always crap. two burners and nothing was the norm. 
early merc hymers had no chassis protection . they rusted quite badly . 
there was and still are some good builders out there but very expensive . 
again high wages mean high costs . 
even in the early days the electric taps in hymers were breaking down all the time . 
ok for weekend use but if you were away all winter many suffered problems . 
i admit at one time i also thought they were better quality but having wintered away for many years i soon learnt the build quality was all front . 
really they were just expensive junk.


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## Byronic (Aug 6, 2016)

maingate said:


> It has been a long time since that applied. People want 'cheap' not 'quality'. Add in the fact that there is no C1 type of entitlement in Europe and vans have to be no more than 3.5T, still have a reasonable payload yet have big fridge/freezers and all the other bells and whistles. Lightweight materials will not have the ruggedness and life of older vans. If you want quality, the price differential is very big.



Bearing in mind OP was referring to "fulltiming"
Since when did people not want quality? Naturally nearly everyone wants quality....preferably with cheapness, that's the problem.  I'd take a  guess and say most people are realistic, and would settle for reasonable quality for a reasonable price, by and large these days I dare say it's probably what they get. Those wanting highest quality will pay highest money, seems fair enough to me.

More Germans and possibly Dutch Swiss and Scandinavians van owners to be found in +3.5 tonners than UK owners, notwithstanding any C1 entitlement.

Again bearing in mind the OP was referring to "fulltiming";
Keeping the van weight down as much as possible was just as much a priority in days of old as it is these days. Many of the fittings and fixtures developed 40 years ago are still (some with refinements) are still being used by some manufacturers today, if they lasted 5 years of their designed life then they had fulfilled their job. And nothing rugged about the typical coachbuilt body of old either, staple fixed non preservative  timber framing clad with sheet aluminium bonded to the frame where hopefully it actually contacted with if you were lucky 3 ply inner lining, WPB hardboard if you were half lucky, or untreated hardboard for just plain unlucky.

Good design combined with lightweight modern materials can often produce ruggedness. The bodyshell on your van is testament to that. Can you walk directly on your van roof (hope you said yes!). Well on a lot of older vans you couldn't, for much the same reasons that a modern car is much stiffer and distorts less than the ladder chassis crates of old.


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## Nesting Zombie (Jan 11, 2017)

markymo said:


> Hi me and the missus are selling up and going full timing permanently ' now I have full timed before for 2 years in total but only in the uk which I found easy with no issues and always wild camped I had a Hymer 644 this was ok for me on my own but it would have felt cramped with 2 people ' so we have been looking at motorhomes and came to the conclusion that a Autotrail chieftain G fits the bill with a big garage for scooter and lots of living space ' has anyone got or had a tag axel Autotrail??? any advice would be great



This is exactly what I've got, & have Full Timed in for the last 18 months or so, Taking me Through 2 Winters down to a Minimum Temperatures of -11 last winter (January I believe) & -9 This winter (just before Christmas) with No problems, Split pipes, or noticeable Coldness or discomfort internally at all so far. Its a very comfortable vehicle, & Meets my needs as a Full Time Livaboard.

Just interested to know how you got on ?
What did you end up doing ?.

Some interesting comments.


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## Nesting Zombie (Jan 11, 2017)

sigma said:


> I've got one that I'm thinking of selling, it's got all the toys including a generator, pm me if you're interested.



Did you Sell or Keep yours ?.


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## 4x4man (Jan 12, 2017)

*full time motorhoming*



markymo said:


> Hi me and the missus are selling up and going full timing permanently ' now I have full timed before for 2 years in total but only in the uk which I found easy with no issues and always wild camped I had a Hymer 644 this was ok for me on my own but it would have felt cramped with 2 people ' so we have been looking at motorhomes and came to the conclusion that a Autotrail chieftain G fits the bill with a big garage for scooter and lots of living space ' has anyone got or had a tag axel Autotrail??? any advice would be great



Hiya

We haven't done any full time motorhoming with my chieftain but I don't see a problem with it as there is plenty of space to live without feeling cramped, we will be living in ours a lot more as we get closer to retirement, as for winter camping, I don't really see any problems there as mine has the water tank warmers incase of freezing and inside the van is dry and very warm and comfortable.

The only thing I would recommend is to have a safari room added to the awning to give that extra living space and a degree to weather protection on that side of the van so you can open you door in comfort, I hope this helps


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## alwaysared (Jan 12, 2017)

markymo said:


> so we have been looking at motorhomes and came to the conclusion that a Autotrail chieftain G fits the bill



If it fits the bill then it must be the van for you, you've got to live in it.
German, English, Italian or French they all have their good and bad points, you just have to decide which bad points are best to live with. We wanted an Autotrail but ended up with a Dethleffs because it was at a price we could afford, it had everything we wanted except a grill but after camping on a motorbike it's something we can live without. We actually use the toaster we took camping for toast and do the bacon and stuff in a frying pan like we did when camping. In fact we're still using the pans and kettle from our Trangia set, their as light as a feather and help keep the weight down lol
Regards,
Del,


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## Nesting Zombie (Jan 13, 2017)

4x4man said:


> Hiya
> 
> We haven't done any full time motorhoming with my chieftain but I don't see a problem with it as there is plenty of space to live without feeling cramped, we will be living in ours a lot more as we get closer to retirement, as for winter camping, I don't really see any problems there as mine has the water tank warmers incase of freezing and inside the van is dry and very warm and comfortable.
> 
> The only thing I would recommend is to have a safari room added to the awning to give that extra living space and a degree to weather protection on that side of the van so you can open you door in comfort, I hope this helps



Hi ya,
Yes I can see the occasional advantage of a Safari room. Especially if you're Abroad, & On a Site for a bit. Or have Friends & Family with you for a spell, on a regular basis, Then Absolutely Yes.
But for Me & my Lifestyle choices of Fulltime Wilding (& I belive the OPs intention) I found My Safari room & indeed My Faimia F45 Wind out Awning it's self Probably The 2 most Useless, Heavy, Space Taking, Impractical things I could possibly have aboard. I've Never used the Safari Room EVER, & only had the Awning wound out out Once,,,So I've Taken them Both off & haven't missed them at all over the last 18 months or so as a Livaboard. The combination of the Poles, Safari Room Sides, The Ground Sheet, & The Awning weighed in at WELL over the 60KG mark. & took up The complete storage cupboard from under my Permanent Double Bed.
If however your looking to Buy A F45 Wind out Awning, Complete with Safari room. Then They are BRILLIANT, & I happen to have Both for sale !.


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## The laird (Jan 13, 2017)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Hi ya,
> Yes I can see the occasional advantage of a Safari room. Especially if you're Abroad, & On a Site for a bit. Or have Friends & Family with you for a spell, on a regular basis, Then Absolutely Yes.
> But for Me & my Lifestyle choices of Fulltime Wilding (& I belive the OPs intention) I found My Safari room & indeed My Faimia F45 Wind out Awning it's self Probably The 2 most Useless, Heavy, Space Taking, Impractical things I could possibly have aboard. I've Never used the Safari Room EVER, & only had the Awning wound out out Once,,,So I've Taken them Both off & haven't missed them at all over the last 18 months or so as a Livaboard. The combination of the Poles, Safari Room Sides, The Ground Sheet, & The Awning weighed in at WELL over the 60KG mark. & took up The complete storage cupboard from under my Permanent Double Bed.
> If however your looking to Buy A F45 Wind out Awning, Complete with Safari room. Then They are BRILLIANT, & I happen to have Both for sale !.



Paul put them in the for sale section summer next stop should be able to sell them,best time now I'd think


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## jagmanx (Jan 13, 2017)

*Safari Room No Awning YES*



Nesting Zombie said:


> Hi ya,
> Yes I can see the occasional advantage of a Safari room. Especially if you're Abroad, & On a Site for a bit. Or have Friends & Family with you for a spell, on a regular basis, Then Absolutely Yes.
> But for Me & my Lifestyle choices of Fulltime Wilding (& I belive the OPs intention) I found My Safari room & indeed My Faimia F45 Wind out Awning it's self Probably The 2 most Useless, Heavy, Space Taking, Impractical things I could possibly have aboard. I've Never used the Safari Room EVER, & only had the Awning wound out out Once,,,So I've Taken them Both off & haven't missed them at all over the last 18 months or so as a Livaboard. The combination of the Poles, Safari Room Sides, The Ground Sheet, & The Awning weighed in at WELL over the 60KG mark. & took up The complete storage cupboard from under my Permanent Double Bed.
> If however your looking to Buy A F45 Wind out Awning, Complete with Safari room. Then They are BRILLIANT, & I happen to have Both for sale !.



We had both these as part of our purchase of a second-hand MH
Lunar Premier H622 3.5 tonne 6.5 metres
Fixed rear bed 
Dining area can be converted to a second double bed (but never is).

Bought in 2010
Use the awning yes
Use the Safari-room No.
WE sold the safari room as soon as we started full-timing in May 2014.
Space and weight being the other factors.

The awning does not get a huge amount of use..But is useful especially if we want to BBQ (cadac) outside
The Vertical supports also assist with setting up the wind-break

May takes 10 mins (MAX) to assemble or the reverse (Both Items)
When travelling we often arrive at out destination mid-afternoon hence worth taking 10 Mins to do the above

WE usually Store the windbreak and wind in the awning overnight.
But if the waether is settled and forecast good they sometime stay out
I have tie-downs (Poundland) for the awning


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## Nesting Zombie (Jan 13, 2017)

The laird said:


> Paul put them in the for sale section summer next stop should be able to sell them,best time now I'd think



Hi ya Matey,
YES,,I will Good point.


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## Deleted member 65609 (May 22, 2017)

Hi All

After reading through this thread I would like to ask about my own Motorhome as to whether it would be suitable to go over to Europe to colder places in winter

The vehicle is a 2016 Rapido with Alde wet heating system and internal water tank would this be ok in cold climates or not

Thanks LB


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