# No longer welcome at Portishead



## Grouchy (Oct 11, 2018)

Hi all, 

While out walking the dog noticed the dreaded ‘no overnight parking’ signs at Portishead lake grounds. 

The signs are smaller than square number plates and few and far between, if arriving after dusk you’d probably miss them. 

1 is halfway along the front near the disabled parking bays, 1 on the beach safety sign (probably ankle height) and the other I saw was near the open air pool on the opposite side to the parking.


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## Canalsman (Oct 11, 2018)

Thanks for the information.

These signs are not enforceable not being in compliance with the
requirement to specify any Traffic Regulation Order in effect.

They are therefore advisory in the same way that the infamous yellow and
black signs erected by the Highland Council were found wanting and to some
extent removed.


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## Debroos (Oct 12, 2018)

Is it possible that such a sign could be enforced by one of those Public Protection orders (can't remember the correct name but the one whereby you can get an instant fine)?
If so, having small signs could be deliberate in order to rake in the cash!


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## Nabsim (Oct 12, 2018)

If an area is council property and not a layby, say a council carpark am I right in thinking it doesn't need to state any TRO Chris?


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## Dads Train (Oct 12, 2018)

*portishead parking*



Grouchy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> While out walking the dog noticed the dreaded ‘no overnight parking’ signs at Portishead lake grounds.
> 
> ...



Is it a legal restriction and is it just along the front or the road at the side of the lake too?


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## GeoffL (Oct 12, 2018)

Debroos said:


> Is it possible that such a sign could be enforced by one of those Public Protection orders (can't remember the correct name but the one whereby you can get an instant fine)?
> If so, having small signs could be deliberate in order to rake in the cash!



I too wonder whether it's a Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) as these now seem an alternative for councils and don't require the same rigorous process as TROs. Checking guidance given to local authorities, doesn't reveal whether the PSPO itself must be referenced (just that, "_Practical issues, such as effective enforcement and erecting signs in (or near) an area subject to an Order – as required by the legislation – should also be borne in mind when determining how large an area the Order proposals might cover._" -- does anyone know what these signs must include?).


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## Canalsman (Oct 12, 2018)

I have stayed here.

It is roadside parking on the public highway.

I have seen a number of signs for various PSPO restrictions and they all reference the relevant order number, the nature of the restrictions and the potential amount you can be fined.

I'm confident that these signs have no authority. I will leave this in the POIs so individuals can make up their own mind ...


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## Tony Lee (Oct 13, 2018)

It is good that some members here are so confident that they are offering to indemnify the rest of us if advice given turns out to be wrong.


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## Grouchy (Oct 13, 2018)

Dads Train said:


> Is it a legal restriction and is it just along the front or the road at the side of the lake too?



Had a quick look again this morning. Signs are only along the front facing Wales.


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## maureenandtom (Oct 13, 2018)

POI Admin said:


> Thanks for the information.
> 
> These signs are not enforceable not being in compliance with the
> requirement to specify any Traffic Regulation Order in effect.
> ...



I agree.   These signs are vcry probably unenforceable and I could give one or two reasons why I think that.  

I think I should cast some doubt on the widely-held belief that the council must specify ifs authority to display the signs.   One council, at least one, has stated that it need not specify the name of the issuing authority - when rejecting an appeal - and I think it would say the same about the particular traffic order.

A lot of this was discussed when we were helping with an appeal - which I think was eventually successful - but not on the grounds of the lack of an issuing authority being displayed.   

https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...las-fines-issued-7.html?highlight=#post869930






I'm not sure where the belief came from but, in my experience, almost always for off-street parking the authority is quoted.  But not for on-street.  We can only find out if this reason is used in an appeal and is upheld because of it.


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## Canalsman (Oct 13, 2018)

Tony Lee said:


> It is good that some members here are so confident that they are offering to indemnify the rest of us if advice given turns out to be wrong.



This I did not do. 

I stated that members could make up their own minds.


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## campervanannie (Oct 13, 2018)

Tony Lee said:


> It is good that some members here are so confident that they are offering to indemnify the rest of us if advice given turns out to be wrong.



All pois are there for people to use at there own risk it’s up to the person using them check out the signs and make there own mind up to stay or not.


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