# Orange LPG hose, is it safe?



## JohnClimber (Nov 18, 2017)

From this thread
https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...thovens-nearly-ready-hit-road.html#post884190

My LPG cupboard (inside the van) needs a drain hole which I understand, but the Caravan service guy said that the fridge and hob can't be used with the new orange LPG hose that it already has but he says that it has to be fitted with solid copper tubing by a gas safe engineer.

We have a Carbon Monoxide alarm.

Does everyone here have solid copper piping on their system or are you still alive after a night with orange LPG hose used in your van?


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## QFour (Nov 18, 2017)

JohnClimber said:


> From this thread
> https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...thovens-nearly-ready-hit-road.html#post884190
> 
> My LPG cupboard (inside the van) needs a drain hole which I understand, but the Caravan service guy said that the fridge and hob can't be used with the new orange LPG hose that it already has but he says that it has to be fitted with solid copper tubing by a gas safe engineer.
> ...



It's down to the installation of the equipment. You can have rubber pigtails but you then have to connect to proper gas pipe ( metal ) which goes to all the appliances just like you get in a gas installation at home. You should also have cut off taps which will isolate the fridge and gas oven / hob.

Always thought that Gas Lockers needed to have an external door. They certainly need a LARGE hole in the floor to prevent the gas from spreading. It's heavier than air so will migrate to the lowest point. Hopefully the hole in the floor. You need to read the LPG Regulations. If you do have a fire then you may find that you are not covered by your insurance if the installation is incorrect.

All down to H&S


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## mark61 (Nov 18, 2017)

Had hose in last van, lived to buy another. But it was visable for the entire length. No expert on the regulations, but if I remember, needs to be copper if concealed.

Only went to cooker as well.


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## tim m154 (Nov 18, 2017)

Hi John, Orange hose should only be used for portable appliances, fixed items such as yours should be permanently connected ideally with copper, reason being that orange pipe has a limited life span and it deteriorates, if behind cupboards etc cannot be inspected, if fitted by a registered gas safe engineer he can certify it.


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## delicagirl (Nov 19, 2017)

JohnClimber said:


> From this thread
> https://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forum...thovens-nearly-ready-hit-road.html#post884190
> 
> My LPG cupboard (inside the van) needs a drain hole which I understand, but the Caravan service guy said that the fridge and hob can't be used with the new orange LPG hose that it already has but he says that it has to be fitted with solid copper tubing by a gas safe engineer.
> ...


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## jagmanx (Nov 19, 2017)

*Orange gas hose also spare regulator*

We simply had one (orange hose) in our gas locker which connected to the regulator and then all copper with individual taps for the 3 appliances.

The orange hose leaked slightly in 2013 (Vehicle is 2006) so it was replaced albeit at minor cost.

We now have a gasit system in the locker with very high quality black hoses again to the regulator

The gas locker has the said drainhole for any gas to disappear safely

This year our regulator failed.

It maybe an idea to carry a correct spare regulator if your vehicle is about 10 years old but I suggest it is not a DIY job


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## n brown (Nov 19, 2017)

usual stuff about gas safe engineers and ''regulations''

there are no regulations concerning any gas work you do in your van
if you want to use orange hose , that's your choice, long may it stay like that
personally , i prefer copper, doesn't deteriorate, and i like to be able to access all of my gas pipe
gas bottle cupboards are neither mandatory nor necessary
gas drop out holes are a very good idea and cost nothing


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## Tbear (Nov 19, 2017)

n brown said:


> usual stuff about gas safe engineers and ''regulations''
> 
> there are no regulations concerning any gas work you do in your van
> if you want to use orange hose , that's your choice, long may it stay like that
> ...



Considering the number of connections, valves and gauges that people tend have in their gas cupboards. All of which are potential leaks, I tend to think that isolating in a cupboard from main cabin area is a good idea. Makes the drop out hole more efficient as the gas has nowhere else to go.

Richard


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## n brown (Nov 19, 2017)

i take your point Richard, but i've seen- it said on this and other  forums that a sealed, metal lined cupboard with
 an external door is a legal requirement
well it might be best practice , but that's nonsense
having a 2 or 3'' upstand across the cupboard doorway to stop any leaked gas coming into the hab area and a 40mm dropout where necessary is fine for me- at least we still have a choice


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## runnach (Nov 19, 2017)

EN1949 is the reference point for anything to do with static caravans, touring caravans and motorhomes there are standards within standards applicable to motorhomes and caravans.

Re flexible hoses, in the UK LPG hose is manufactured to BS3212 and has two definitions

BS3212 type 1 low pressure hose
BS3212 type 2 high pressure hose

In the UK the date of manufacture is stamped on the hose and is given a lifespan of 5 years from the date of manufacture. However will be checked and should be replaced prior if there are signs of deteriation.

( in the EU France for example the date stamped on hoses is an expiry date)

On this matter EN1949 states hose assemblies shall be used that are appropriate for the country of destination.

The EN 1763 standard relates to hoses within the EN1949 standard. Generally this states maximum defined lengths that should be used and exceptions,

Channa


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## delicagirl (Nov 19, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> Unfortunately caravan service guys do not have to have any qualifications to speak of , you are the blind being led by the blind .
> Gas safe does not come into the equation at all and many people are actually mislead in this respect, the regulations for caravans and motorhomes are actually in the construction and use of a motor vehicle legislation.
> Unfortunately most motorhome owners are conned into paying their dealers big money for a *monkey with a 2 day course* on gas to check their vehicles.
> A habitation check is purely that a check no service work that could well be specified by the appliance manufacturer will be carried out unless you specifically ask for it to be done .
> ...




When i bought my donkey of a van and knowing no different my "monkey with a two day course" found so many gas leaks he was worth his weight in gold.  My gassafe registered engineer is also worth his weight in gold when he tests my whole system annually.

Being blase about gas is not something i agree with. If gas systems are not installed or used correctly gas kills.


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## mark61 (Nov 19, 2017)

Am I right in thinking a CO alarm won't go off with a gas leak?

They'll only go off after incomplete combustion?


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## runnach (Nov 19, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> I am very surprised that you have managed to find a gas safe man to certify your van as my guess would be if he knew his stuff he can't actually issue a certificate as the chances are that your imported vehicle will not have any CE markings on the appliances.
> Or do you just have a peace of mind check



I have to admit the same thought occurred to myself as it would have been manufactured to Japanese standards and not the European market. So appliances, ventilation , piping were never designed for this market, I am not suggesting for a second unsafe but doesn't tick the relevant boxes. Did you not have similar issues with the US RV you owned ?

The GASSAFE man is a bit of a myth, gas safe is a register of qualified people and has nothing to do with LPG merely administers the register for ACS accredited LPG engineers.

What should be remembered is most gassafe blokes are qualified to work on Natural gas domestic dwellings or commercial to work On LPG should have the appropriate module of qualification even that can be restrictive in scope of work you are allowed to do. LPG. LPG with LAV element , additional module for boats..

The whole lot difficult for customers to establish who is qualified to do what, simply saying gas safe is not sufficient.

Re home builds, the regs from memory suggest any work should be carried out by a competent person the definition of competent is a bit of a grey area. However I do my own self build sort my own gas  out so no issues ? Well there is one big one if I ever sold my mythical vehicle and it transpires someone gets hurt by my level of competence

Channa


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## runnach (Nov 19, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> I went to some static caravans to fix a gas leak and the owners assured me that they have all the vans tested and that the certification was all in date , the gas work was so obviously the work of a diy monkey with ptfe tape in places where it was totally useless and all the water heaters had the cases painted by hand which is an immediate fail ,also all the Co alarms were out of date , told them but they didn't seem bothered as they had their bit of paper so just turned the gas off and left .



Best I saw on a static was a piece of hosepipe being used as a pigtail !!! 
Channa


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## delicagirl (Nov 19, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> I am very surprised that you have managed to find a gas safe man to certify your van as my guess would be if he knew his stuff he can't actually issue a certificate as the chances are that your imported vehicle will not have any CE markings on the appliances.
> Or do you just have a peace of mind check



Charlie  -  show me where i said i had my van certificated?   i said checked..... this summer my system was operating at  98.5% efficiency with no leaks.  i dont have the knowledge nor equipment to test for all that - hence i pay a gas engineer to do it for me - for my peace of mind.


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## harrow (Nov 19, 2017)

channa said:


> Best I saw on a static was a piece of hosepipe being used as a pigtail !!!
> Channa



Did it still have the garden sprinkler on the end ?

:rockroll::rockroll::rockroll:


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## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 19, 2017)

Collette actually said the man tests the van, I assume he does a drop test which is important and at least Collette is being a responsible person which is one of the few that has this test carried out.

Gas installation work in a Caravan or motor caravan is totally different to domestic gas work whilst there are no regulations to cover DIY work that is no reason not to carry out work correctly as Channa state Competent person is vauge but rest assured should an accident occur after you have sold the van on you will be called on to explain.
The old addage If a Job is worth doing Do it correctly

Alf






Chainsaw Charlie said:


> I am very surprised that you have managed to find a gas safe man to certify your van as my guess would be if he knew his stuff he can't actually issue a certificate as the chances are that your imported vehicle will not have any CE markings on the appliances.
> Or do you just have a peace of mind check


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## Fazerloz (Nov 19, 2017)

They are quite thin on the ground those that can legally make out a gas safety cert for mobile lpg. When you start asking the right questions as to their certifications a lot start back peddling and will not make out a safety cert. We have to have our mobile coffee unit done every year.

At the same time he does the MH whilst he is here.


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## huntsman (Nov 19, 2017)

*portable super ser gas firesfor the home*

been reading all the theads with intrest was just wondering what the regs are for super ser calor gas fires in the home are if any?? and if so how may people folow them through??'my gas fire has an orange hose ?


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## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 19, 2017)

In my last job I was fortunate that one of my testing electricians also had Gas qualifications ( he had just left the Forces and had obtained all these Qualifications curtsey of HM Armed Forces }so I had him trained up to take more modules to enable him to do both Electrical and Gas testing and certification more and more people were asking about mobile catering testing so I had him on a LPG course to cover this within about 6 months of his qualification I had to get another trained as he was working fulltime on just Mobile catering with local authorities checking any type of Snap cabin.  A very lucrative trade to do both Electrical and LPG Certification.

Alf




Fazerloz said:


> They are quite thin on the ground those that can legally make out a gas safety cert for mobile lpg. When you start asking the right questions as to their certifications a lot start back peddling and will not make out a safety cert. We have to have our mobile coffee unit done every year.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 19, 2017)

The recommendation is that your heater should be checked annually by a qualified person for safe operation and to detect any faults.

ie A Qualified LPG Gas Engineer now go find one :anyone:

Alf




huntsman said:


> been reading all the theads with intrest was just wondering what the regs are for super ser calor gas fires in the home are if any?? and if so how may people folow them through??'my gas fire has an orange hose ?


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## Fazerloz (Nov 19, 2017)

A lot of mobile caterers struggle to find someone, most just don't bother, but as we work shows some ask to see insurance, gas certs and pat certs and risk assesments.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 19, 2017)

Every time ours comes he always leaves a can of leak detector spray. I think he is a little embarressed about how little he has had to do for his money.


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## JohnClimber (Nov 19, 2017)

Thanks all for your replies, interesting to hear the as it's not going to be hired out so I don't have to have it "gas safe" but I also understand the safety side of things as i do want to wake up in the mornings

This thread has opened up 2 more questions if you don't mind me asking

1) Where can I get a camper van LPG alarm from please?

2) I can get flexible stainless steel hose such as this
Metalflex :: Stainless Steel Flexible Hose Assemblies - Metalflex

or even PTFE metal braided hoses such as this
Metalflex :: PTFE Flexible Hose Assemblies - Metalflex

Both metal and PTFE hoses will be made to measure.
Would either of these hoses do the job better than LPG or even copper piping as they will retain the flexibility but not leak like rubber hose


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## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 19, 2017)

John stick with the tried and tested copperpipe the only flexible hose you require is from the gas bottle to your regulator and use a Gaslow stainless steel one for that.

You can fit a manifold with multiple isolator valves in a cupboard in the van.

Alf




JohnClimber said:


> Thanks all for your replies, interesting to hear the as it's not going to be hired out so I don't have to have it "gas safe" but I also understand the safety side of things as i do want to wake up in the mornings
> 
> This thread has opened up 2 more questions if you don't mind me asking
> 
> ...


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## JohnClimber (Nov 19, 2017)

Alf said:


> John stick with the tried and tested copperpipe the only flexible hose you require is from the gas bottle to your regulator and use a Gaslow stainless steel one for that.
> 
> You can fit a manifold with multiple isolator valves in a cupboard in the van.
> 
> Alf



Thanks Alf.
I wish I had the skill set to do it and looking for an LPG engineer is very hard.


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## delicagirl (Nov 19, 2017)

John as Chainsaw Charlie has said....  you could also start a new thread asking for recommendations from other vanners in your area....  By the way GASSAFE website does have a section for their members who are qualified in LPG.


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## runnach (Nov 19, 2017)

I let my LPG lav ticket lapse , quite frankly what work there is doesn't pay hence I switched to Air Con having worked on units abroad ..

As for the correct method of testing, I am pretty confident Keith Fox Evesham college would have failed me peering over my shoulder at every moment and asking a barrage of questions. No favours afforded

I comment very little nowdays on gas threads others seem to be the experts no qualifications but hey ho ...Part of the job is understanding the regulations correctly and acting accordingly times change and whilst confident on a lot of legalities certainly not confident I would charge money in a commercial sense 

Channa


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## runnach (Nov 20, 2017)

JohnClimber said:


> Thanks Alf.
> I wish I had the skill set to do it and looking for an LPG engineer is very hard.



Not a million miles from you Jonathan at Caravanalia in Llandudno is quite good, I came across him a couple of times when I was working in Wales. He sells a lot of awnings too !!! has a display at his showroom and is a Truma dealer.

I always found his approach of wanting to do a job properly and not cutting corners quite refreshing 

Channa


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## runnach (Nov 20, 2017)

Fazerloz said:


> A lot of mobile caterers struggle to find someone, most just don't bother, but as we work shows some ask to see insurance, gas certs and pat certs and risk assesments.


 If you ever get stuck an ex work colleague can possibly help you out, He is on the Gas safe register, He /we used to fit a lot of central heating systems on rental statics amongst other things plumb utility blocks pretty sure has the right papers

Channa


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## spigot (Nov 20, 2017)

huntsman said:


> been reading all the theads with intrest was just wondering what the regs are for super ser calor gas fires in the home are if any?? and if so how may people folow them through??'my gas fire has an orange hose ?



I use these heaters in the workshop. The important thing with these is:- Make sure there is adequate ventilation & use a carbon monoxide alarm.


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## JohnClimber (Nov 21, 2017)

Thanks for all the replies.
It's helped me realise that it needs to be plumbed in professionally and I've been in touch with a gas safe engineer who will do it and certify it as well.
As least I'll be able to sleep at night and most importantly wake up again in the morning.
Thanks all


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