# solar control controller



## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

A new conundrum rears its head in the ongoing saga of the delicious-van-remodel ….    the Solar Charge Controller  -

The controller I had fitted 2 years ago monitors the 100w solar panel  which feeds 3 leisure batteries - it  is a puzzle.

It has "PMW  Solar Charge Controller" written on the front and "CE" in the top right hand corner,  but in spite of spending hours of “www-ing”  I cannot find one that looks like it. 

It has a row of 4 “lights” - labelled :-    temperature, charge, fault and power. There is also a mode-flashing light and a set button.

At the bottom are 3 pairs of 2 screw holes, under each  pair is a picture:-   pair 1 = solar panel  (left);   pair 2 = a battery (middle);   pair 3 =  lightbulb (right) .

Underneath each of the three pictures, you can screw in two cables - 1 in 1 out.  Only 4 cables are connected -  to pair 1 and  pair 3.    The cables coming from the roof solar panel are connected to No. 1 pair showing the solar panel picture, and two further cables are connected to no. 3 pair  showing the light bulb.  I have traced no 3 cable from the solar controller to the second leisure battery.   

So why are there no cables in no 2 pair showing the battery picture ?    


thanks


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## mistericeman (Nov 2, 2016)

Good question.... as far as I'm aware the terminals with the bulb are just a direct feed that only supplies charge WHEN the solar panels are generating, not sure IF it's regulated or not.... 

Both my panels are wired into the terminals with the solar panel symbol,  then  the battery symbol marked one feeds my leisure batteries ...


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## Private (Nov 2, 2016)

*Wired wrong?*

Sounds like it is wired wrong to me.
The batteries should be connected to pair 2.
Pair 3 is for "load"; i.e things you want the solar charger to control the supply of power TO whether FROM the battery OR the solar panel.
Others will confirm, I'm sure.


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## Private (Nov 2, 2016)

*Picture?*

If you post a picture of the controller I'm sure someone will find the instructions.
The symbols & their meanings are pretty standard but it's always nice to have the full instructions.


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

Private said:


> If you post a picture of the controller I'm sure someone will find the instructions.
> The symbols & their meanings are pretty standard but it's always nice to have the full instructions.



my IT skills aren't quite up to that as yet


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## mistericeman (Nov 2, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> my IT skills aren't quite up to that as yet



can you take a digital picture and email/message it to me IF I send you my details? 

If you can I'll post it up here for you.


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## runnach (Nov 2, 2016)

Does it work is the million dollar question.

It sounds to me is if the controller provides two feeds, both do the same thing, however whoever wired it chose the wrong picture.?

Channa.

p.s are you sure it is pmw and not pwm ?


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> can you take a digital picture and email/message it to me IF I send you my details?
> 
> If you can I'll post it up here for you.



thank you very much for offering,      ...  but i dont know how to get just one photo out of my camera onto my computer so i could email it. i dont want to duplicate hundreds of pictures from my camera onto my computer again  -  it took me days to get rid of the duplicates last time -  sighs


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## colinm (Nov 2, 2016)

Your discription, and as you can see on photo above would indicate it is a standard type.
Someone has wired it wrong, the battery should be wired to (wait for it) the battery symbol, the light symbol will not be regulated to cut out when battery is up to max.
i've just remembered, that was your favorite dealer that installed it.
p.s. hopefully as your battery bank is quite big for size of panel, it hasn't damaged batteries.


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## harrow (Nov 2, 2016)

Your not trying to lure young men to your camper van again :tongue:


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## mistericeman (Nov 2, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> thank you very much for offering,      ...  but i dont know how to get just one photo out of my camera onto my computer so i could email it. i dont want to duplicate hundreds of pictures from my camera onto my computer again  -  it took me days to get rid of the duplicates last time -  sighs



Do you use WhatsApp OR just take a, picture and send it as a message to a mobile number? 

just trying to help


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2016)

on some regulators the third set of terminals are for lights after dark there is a system that as the sungoes down it then turns the power to the third ones on . its for security lights etc in some applications . ther is possible a button you press at some time or other to work the control of it . 
i have never actually set one up for lights so not certain how its done . but do have regs here with it . think its not really for m,home use . more industrial. 
although mine is always live , i do know some dont play with it and power tv,s etc directly off the reg .


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

channa said:


> Does it work is the million dollar question.
> 
> It sounds to me is if the controller provides two feeds, both do the same thing, however whoever wired it chose the wrong picture.?
> 
> ...




PWM    YUP !!!!

CHANNA I DONT KNOW IF IT WORKS PROPERLY. i am trying to find out why i seem to need to move on and recharge the batteries so often when i have 3 leisure batteries and i use so few low-consumption  electrical appliances....   laptop, phone charger, lights and water pump.....

The maximum number the controller has ever shown me even on a sunny day  is  4  -  in winter in scotland it went down to 2 on one occassion cos it was so gloomy.  i dont know  4 "What"  though....   volts/amps  what ?  since i have no booklet for it  and i  have described exactly what it says on the front i don't know what else to do to find out if it is wired correctly or wrongly.  

i will take it back to my local camper repair shop when their sparks is back and get him to have a look.   they have told me that the 3 leisure batteries are not the same -  2 are  100A and 1 is  110A   and they are not the same type either  - and i know thats not good.  All batteries are in excellent working order, as they tested them for me today. 

the lights are not LED either -  i was led to believe they had been changed  to LED by an earlier repair shop  - clearly not....


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## Tezza33 (Nov 2, 2016)

harrow said:


> Your not trying to lure young men to your camper van again :tongue:


She hasn't let the last ones out yet:dog:


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> Do you use WhatsApp OR just take a, picture and send it as a message to a mobile number?
> 
> just trying to help




i know mrrice  - i know you are trying to help   -   i am a real technophobe...   my subscription on my mobile phone for whatsapp  tells me it has expired - and i have no idea how that happened.  i dont know how to get it back again.    I dont know how to transfer a picture  from my camera, or from my smartphone,  to my computer to attach it to an email to you.   

 i have just  taken a photo on my smart phone, to try to learn  how to send one , and discover that there are loads of pictures on my phone from emails i have never seen ......


  the text is way too small on my smart phone to write emails on it....

its a bummer.....


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2016)

i would prefer 3 x 100wt panels supplying that amount of batteries . 1 x100 watt isnt giving very much power .
plus a laptop will soon drag all that panel can provide . 
think you need more panels . but anyway this time of year winter in uk be lucky if you put hardly anything in .
you can mix lots of different size, makes ,etc of batteries so long as they are all good condition .


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## yeoblade (Nov 2, 2016)

The 'Lamp' OutPut on mine can be programed to be on at different times. It's use is described in the  manual as typically used for street lighting circuit, so batteries charge during the day via 'Battery' Output and then it discharges the batteries via the 'Lamp' output (Load) during darkness.

Looks like yours is wired incorrectly, but what does your manual / circuit diagram show? And so your solar panels are chocolate teapots wired like that 
Unless the output is permanently on and linked through to the battery output terminals when in that state.


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

colinmd said:


> Your discription, and as you can see on photo above would indicate it is a standard type.
> 
> Someone has wired it wrong, the battery should be wired to (wait for it) the battery symbol, the light symbol will not be regulated to cut out when battery is up to max.
> 
> ...




Apparently my 3 leisure batteries are  not the same  -  2 are  100A  and 1 is 110A  and they are not the same type  - but, thank goodness,  all of the batteries are fine,  they were fully tested today at my local camper repair place who i actually like and trust  - its a smallish family business with half a dozen experienced technicians.  However they did tell me that the solar panel i have is not sufficient to fill 3 batteries.  I know from all my reading here that batteries have to be the same size and type to be fully efficient.

So i am thinking that  possible ways forward to improve the hours of computing i can do in the van in the wild  would be to  

change all lights to LED 

keep 2 leisure batteries of the same type/size (and not use the third)  and keep my 100A solar panel in place - see how i go

or

buy another controller 

or



replace the odd leisure battery with another one and retain three identical leisure batteries and fit a large solar panel..... 


aarrgghh  ...   more dosh ....   yet more dosh.....


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

yeoblade said:


> The 'Lamp' OutPut on mine can be programed to be on at different times. It's use is described in the  manual as typically used for street lighting circuit, so batteries charge during the day via 'Battery' Output and then it discharges the batteries via the 'Lamp' output (Load) during darkness.
> 
> Looks like yours is wired incorrectly, but what does your *manual / circuit diagram show*? And so your solar panels are chocolate teapots wired like that
> Unless the output is permanently on and linked through to the battery output terminals when in that state.



i don't have one  that's part of the problem...   and i spent several  hours trying to find a picture/manual of an identical controller to mine  but failed to find one.


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## mistericeman (Nov 2, 2016)

PM sent Dells ...


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

Torchy said:


> She hasn't let the last ones out yet:dog:



HaHa !!!!!  if he was an electrician he would have got a good "bonus" when he fixed my solar issues  !!!!!:lol-053::lol-053:


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> HaHa !!!!!  if he was an electrician he would have got a good "bonus" when he fixed my solar issues  !!!!!:lol-053::lol-053:



its easy to fix your solar issues go to spain on the med this winter . what solar panels need is very bright light . ideally from the sun .


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

vwalan said:


> its easy to fix your solar issues go to spain on the med this winter . what solar panels need is very bright light . ideally from the sun .




i have to finish uni in april 2017  - after that.....     who knows where i will be in 2017 ...... 

anyone want to join me for a long jaunt ??


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## runnach (Nov 2, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Apparently my 3 leisure batteries are  not the same  -  2 are  100A  and 1 is 110A  and they are not the same type  - but, thank goodness,  all of the batteries are fine,  they were fully tested today at my local camper repair place who i actually like and trust  - its a smallish family business with half a dozen experienced technicians.  However they did tell me that the solar panel i have is not sufficient to fill 3 batteries.  I know from all my reading here that batteries have to be the same size and type to be fully efficient.
> 
> So i am thinking that  possible ways forward to improve the hours of computing i can do in the van in the wild  would be to
> 
> ...



Easy peasy, get yer man to take the wires from the bulb terminal and put to the one that's shows the battery picture. It doesn't matter then what the bulb is protected circuit or not. it is then wired correctly.

if you are reducing down to two batts keep the two that are the same voltage.

No reason to change the controller its seems to be doing fine, when yer man swop terminals quick check with a multimeter will prove it is providing juice.

MPPT controllers are more efficient but a lot of the crap sold on ebay they are not MPPT but PWM ( how they get away with it not sure) Loads of threads here re MPPT's but they are not cheap.

see how you go and if the battery bank is still weak consider an additional 100 w panel ..

just a thought reducing to two batts will increase oyur payload slightly too

Channa


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

channa said:


> Easy peasy, get yer man to take the wires from the bulb terminal and put to the one that's shows the battery picture. It doesn't matter then what the bulb is protected circuit or not. it is then wired correctly.
> 
> if you are reducing down to two batts keep the two that are the same voltage.
> 
> ...


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2016)

channa said:


> Easy peasy, get yer man to take the wires from the bulb terminal and put to the one that's shows the battery picture. It doesn't matter then what the bulb is protected circuit or not. it is then wired correctly.
> 
> if you are reducing down to two batts keep the two that are the same voltage.
> 
> ...



i prefer pwm , works ok. have tried others but paying alot for just getting a little extra isnt good . 
more sun and earlier till later is best . morocco is really great for solar.


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## trevskoda (Nov 2, 2016)

One of the above posts is almost correct,the battery should come of the batt terminals and the lamp terms is just a path from the battery to main switches controlling lights and any thing else,A 100w panel is nowhere near what is required for your battery bank,the rule of thumb is 100w for 100ah battery,below this will take twice as much time to charge them up and with only 100w in uk over sunlight high in sky you would be lucky to get 20ah feed to batterys through the day.
Find out what amperage the controller can handle ,most are around 20ah or so but you can wire in two in parallel doubling the amperage.
I would think 400w of panels would be great but half of this just might do in mid summer if easy on power though the laptop will eat power,led lights are good ,well sorted.


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> One of the above posts is almost correct,the battery should come of the batt terminals and the lamp terms is just a path from the battery to main switches controlling lights and any thing else,A 100w panel is nowhere near what is required for your battery bank,the rull of thumb is 100w for 100ah battery,below this will take twice as much time to charge them up and with only 100w in uk over sunlight high in sky you would be lucky to get 20ah feed to batterys through the day.
> Find out what ampage the controler can handle ,most are around 20ah or so but you can wire in two in paralele doubling the ampage.
> I would think 400w of panels would be great but half of this just might do in mid summer if easy on power though the laptop will eat power,led lights are good ,well sorted.



i use caravan gas lights dont use any leccy . plus you get light, heat, and helps get rid of flies and mozzies . 
plus its a nice light.


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## trevskoda (Nov 2, 2016)

vwalan said:


> i use caravan gas lights dont use any leccy . plus you get light, heat, and helps get rid of flies and mozzies .
> plus its a nice light.



The lady requires to read and work and gas lights though nice will strain the eyes,my gran went almost half blind reading with them during the war years.
The other thing is the engine & panels produce electric but not gas,only i can do that.


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## vwalan (Nov 2, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> The lady requires to read and work and gas lights though nice will strain the eyes,my gran went almost half blind reading with them during the war years.
> The other thing is the engine & panels produce electric but not gas,only i can do that.


the war years what the early 70,s . ha ha . 
mine are ok for reading , in the trailer its small , in a house yes could be a bit dark. 
but with only 100watt panel its not enough . 
you know it , i know it , think several on here know it . 
have a good one .


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## jolmartyn1 (Nov 2, 2016)

*Battery Master*

I also have a Batterymaster to squirt some juice into my  vehicle battery when the habitation  batteries are full


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## trevskoda (Nov 2, 2016)

jolmartyn1 said:


> I also have a Batterymaster to squirt some juice into my  vehicle battery when the habitation  batteries are full



And i to have a solar battery splitter which finds the lowest battery and charges it first making sure my engine always fires up so i can then generate power if stuck.
It will handle 200w 16ah of solar panel so 2 would be require if going for 400w and splitting the panels into 2 banks.


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## colinm (Nov 2, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Apparently my 3 leisure batteries are  not the same  -  2 are  100A  and 1 is 110A  and they are not the same type  - but, thank goodness,  all of the batteries are fine,  they were fully tested today at my local camper repair place who i actually like and trust  - its a smallish family business with half a dozen experienced technicians.  However they did tell me that the solar panel i have is not sufficient to fill 3 batteries.  I know from all my reading here that batteries have to be the same size and type to be fully efficient.
> 
> So i am thinking that  possible ways forward to improve the hours of computing i can do in the van in the wild  would be to
> 
> ...



If you are using halogen, then changing to LED will make a big difference. 12v LEDs are very efficient, will only need about 1/10 of power as halogen for same output of light. If replacing flouro's not so much gain.

Changing the 110ah battery won't make much difference, it will already be acting like a 100ah.

The battery will weigh up to 25kg.


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## yeoblade (Nov 2, 2016)

yeoblade said:


> The 'Lamp' OutPut on mine can be programed to be on at different times. It's use is described in the  manual as typically used for street lighting circuit, so batteries charge during the day via 'Battery' Output and then it discharges the batteries via the 'Lamp' output (Load) during darkness.
> 
> Looks like yours is wired incorrectly, but what does your manual / circuit diagram show? And so your solar panels are chocolate teapots wired like that
> Unless the output is permanently on and linked through to the battery output terminals when in that state.





trevskoda said:


> *One of the above posts is almost correct*,the battery should come of the batt terminals and the lamp terms is just a path from the battery to main switches controlling lights and any thing else/ snip.



Which bit is wrong? So I can correct my wiring.


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## trevskoda (Nov 2, 2016)

yeoblade said:


> Which bit is wrong? So I can correct my wiring.



Think i picked post up wrong as you stated lights at night sorry but the will work any time,the battery to light indicator is just a path through and you could just wire from the battery leaving out this bit on control unit,cheers.


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## Auld Pharrrt (Nov 2, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> A new conundrum rears its head in the ongoing saga of the delicious-van-remodel ….    the Solar Charge Controller  -
> 
> The controller I had fitted 2 years ago monitors the 100w solar panel  which feeds 3 leisure batteries - it  is a puzzle.
> 
> ...



Trying to identify it ... may sound silly, but what colour is the front?
If you have a mobile phone and use wassap it's dead easy to send a photo and I'd happily PM you my phone number and I can post a picture for you.


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2016)

the front, indeed all of it , is black.

i have had kind offers to help from forum members re photographing it.... the  problem is my non-tecchie brain  -    i dont know how to do apps and whilst i can take photos with my digital camera i dont know how to get one just one photo from my camera to an email.   i also dont know how to send an email from my smart phone (text is too small) with an attached photo....   i will play with my IT tomorrow afternoon.....   brain is too tired right now ....    but many thanks for the offer....


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## runnach (Nov 2, 2016)

The issue deliciagirl has is extending the battery life on the laptop. they typically charge at 19 volts.

We have a spare battery. which could power a 12 v laptop charger about £20 which you can alter the output so we get the correct voltage to the laptop.

What is to stop that 3rd terminal being the power source to the charger ? 

The disadvantage I see is the fact she only has a 100w panel double it up with the existing panel and possibly get close to enough ampge to keep the laptop happy and the leisure batts. could wire direct to the leisure batts but keeps life simpler, a dedicated power source, even possibly charge a second laptop battery whilst the laptop in use.

I have to be missing something here, seems too easy 

Channa


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## trevskoda (Nov 2, 2016)

Problem is the poor we las works to hard and at this rate instead of feeling like a 19 year old she will end up looking a tad near 30 something.:wave:


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## runnach (Nov 2, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Problem is the poor we las works to hard and at this rate instead of feeling like a 19 year old she will end up looking a tad near 30 something.:wave:


 im trying hard to be the hunky electrician lol ....seriously Trev can you see a problem ? second panel might even be cheaper to go for as portable ...if the dedicated battery is charged before a soiree at home in business ? 

Channa


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## Private (Nov 2, 2016)

*Liitle dosh...*



delicagirl said:


> Apparently my 3 leisure batteries are  not the same  -  2 are  100A  and 1 is 110A  and they are not the same type  - but, thank goodness,  all of the batteries are fine,  they were fully tested today at my local camper repair place who i actually like and trust  - its a smallish family business with half a dozen experienced technicians.  However they did tell me that the solar panel i have is not sufficient to fill 3 batteries.  I know from all my reading here that batteries have to be the same size and type to be fully efficient.
> 
> So i am thinking that  possible ways forward to improve the hours of computing i can do in the van in the wild  would be to
> 
> ...



Yes, changing all the BULBS to LED is a real step forward. Keep the light fittings & change the bulbs only as there is an LED for virtually every fitting. Ebay is full of very cheap 12V LED bulbs that just require a straight swap over.

I don't consider my solar panel to have to be necessarily powerful enough to charge my batteries from flat; I consider it there to top them up, along with the Alternator when I'm driving. If you are setting off with 3 fully charged leisure batteries from a good mains charge then the solar only needs to top them up, not charge them up from flat. 3 batteries will take longer to go flat than 2 but will make sure there is no wasted charge in summer or when you get an occasional hook-up.

The controller is just wired up incorrectly. Once it is wired correctly you can then better assess your situation.
I use the 'lightbulb' terminals on my solar controller to automatically switch on my night time security when it gets dark and it works well so I don't imagine it is helping having your batteries connected to them.

A tablet would be a much lower power consumer than a laptop for things such as web browsing. Keep the laptop for the work a tablet can't do. You could use a bluetooth keyboard with it too if you want physical keys.

Change the bulbs, wire the controller correctly, keep 3 batteries & see how it goes. Little dosh only!


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## runnach (Nov 2, 2016)

if you dedicate the spare battery as solo at 110 ah it gives in theory 68.5 hours useage, call it 50 ...two hours to charge the laptop gives 25 charges. if the battery is receiving charge that 25 extends somewhat ...that's my theory. 

channa

ps that's all it is a theory lol


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## colinm (Nov 2, 2016)

Private said:


> Change the bulbs, wire the controller correctly, keep 3 batteries & see how it goes. Little dosh only!



That's pretty much how I see it, one step at a time and see how it goes.
There are many variables which 'we' don't know, such as time spent driving compared to days parked up, are we talk year round use, time of day laptop is used, etc.
I may be wildly out, but I think a laptop uses less power than a couple of Halogen lamps.


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## Obanboy666 (Nov 3, 2016)

I'm no expert by any means but I reckon there is something sadly wrong with Deliciagirls setup if she cannot manage with 300 amps of leisure battery !
I watch loads of tv, charge iPads, iPhones, ecigs, run the Truma Combi etc, etc and manage with 1 X 110amps of battery and a 100 watt panel.
Everyone is giving advise suggesting she does various things but surely she needs an expert to actually check the electrical side out to determine what is going on before changing anything apart from the solar panel controller which is obviously wired up incorrectly.


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## trevskoda (Nov 3, 2016)

I know the controller is set up wrong and a few mis would sort that out but very little charge will go to batts at this time of year,if del was here i would have it all sorted in a few hrs,dont know who wired it that way in the first place but it happens quite a lot and i have just spent a week sorting one out a few doors from me.
I fitted door and step night led lights to for safety when returning to van at night all on a remote for keyring.
Also fitted usb & cigy sockets for 12v tv,he could not understand why his 230v tv would not work from mains socket, dooh,where did he think the power was going to come from.


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## runnach (Nov 3, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> I know the controller is set up wrong and a few mis would sort that out but very little charge will go to batts at this time of year,if del was here i would have it all sorted in a few hrs,dont know who wired it that way in the first place but it happens quite a lot and i have just spent a week sorting one out a few doors from me.
> I fitted door and step night led lights to for safety when returning to van at night all on a remote for keyring.
> Also fitted usb & cigy sockets for 12v tv,he could not understand why his 230v tv would not work from mains socket, dooh,where did he think the power was going to come from.


 I could sort it too if I were closer. I do think we suggested her "man" use a multimeter to work out what was going off. 5 minute job voltage at the batteries connected and not connected, open circuit on the panel . 

Quite right this time of year the charge to the batts be very little, also imho there is greatly differing quality performance especially with pwm type controllers . 

100 w 330a batt bank egg cup trying to fill a bucket.! 

I am on expert on these things either but allegedly fitted by one !! 

Channa


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

Gosh  -  you guys really are a wondrous set of advisers to have in my life...... i learn so much here

i multimeter measured my batteries yesterday morning at home,  @  12.95,    drove 20 minutes, parked up, used my laptop for 4 hours, measured them again  @ 12.45.   i came home.  This seems a lot to me  -  what do others thing?  it is an older laptop - and a new one for what i need is too much money. 

Re laptop-tablet    -  i need a laptop with a big screen and a full keyboard as i am a touch typist and i need 2 word files on screen at the same time. ( i never use laptop for wifi or internet - that's the whole point of my writing is the van  -  no distractions.)
"
Now WAAAAY  back when i was a Real van numpty  someone told me  "never let your battery drop below 12."  So I have never have let it drop below 12.3 before driving on.

Am i being too cautious ? 


i am in agreement with   "step at a time."   Change controller wiring first of all....    could i do this ?  it looks simply  enough ...

Weird set up ?   oh yes  !!!   -  its a germano-japanese mish-msh of 110v/240v/12volt  which look like a work of art - all beautifully labelled in japanese.


Usages  -  i use the van a lot -  even in winter -  so much so that i am considering SORNing the car !


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## Barnacle (Nov 3, 2016)

channa said:


> Easy peasy, get yer man to take the wires from the bulb terminal and put to the one that's shows the battery picture. It doesn't matter then what the bulb is protected circuit or not. it is then wired correctly.
> 
> if you are reducing down to two batts keep the two that are the same voltage.
> 
> ...



I was wondering why nobody had mentioned MPPT yet on this issue Channa and was looking to see who would eventually say something about it. Your advise here is what I was thinking and the batteries that should be kept in the van is the two 100ah ones and possibly keep the 110ah one charged up as a backup but not to be used along with the other two. 
Barnacle.


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## dane (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Change controller wiring first of all....    could i do this ?  it looks simply  enough ...



Assuming you mean moving the two cables from the load connection to the battery connection...Yes.  But disconnect the battery first.  Move the wires, then reconnect the battery.

dan


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## runnach (Nov 3, 2016)

Barnacle said:


> I was wondering why nobody had mentioned MPPT yet on this issue Channa and was looking to see who would eventually say something about it. Your advise here is what I was thinking and the batteries that should be kept in the van is the two 100ah ones and possibly keep the 110ah one charged up as a backup but not to be used along with the other two.
> Barnacle.



Another thought Barnacle, considering 100 w panel attempting to charge 330 batt bank is odds are the batteries are never going to be near full capacity, hence the egg cup bucket analogy. 

We know you don't get 100 percent but lets say 90 % ..Do batteries discharge in a linear fashion in other word if you plotted on a graph and measured discharge there would be a curve. as the battery depletes the quicker the discharge, even more so now it is cold. So if we are only topping up to say 65 % capacity they will discharge quicker due to the physics of it all.( as the voltage drops the current draw becomes greater)

The 110 may also not be helping hence I suggested stand alone. 

I hope you are well, sorry not to have made the last highland meet 

Channa


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## runnach (Nov 3, 2016)

dane said:


> Assuming you mean moving the two cables from the load connection to the battery connection...Yes.  But disconnect the battery first.  Move the wires, then reconnect the battery. ( also proves the batteries are charging but I wouldn't expect a large difference this time of year)
> 
> dan


 I agree, all I would add is before you disconnect take a multi reading make note, disconnect take note , re connect and make another note any variations before and after tell a little about the controller.

When disconnected I would also take a reading from the panel might have to undo those wires, that will give an open circuit reading which is useful, if it is remarkably low questions whether the panel is damaged, also if when you reconnect the batteries no difference in voltage suggests an issue with the controller 

Channa


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## Barnacle (Nov 3, 2016)

dane said:


> Assuming you mean moving the two cables from the load connection to the battery connection...Yes.  But disconnect the battery first.  Move the wires, then reconnect the battery.
> 
> dan



It is easy enough as you say Dan but here is something to consider, most, if not all, solar controller manufacturers say in their manuals to connect the battery before connecting the panel as doing it the other way could damage the controller. If this is so then it might be advisable to disconnect at least one of the solar terminals before disconnecting the battery cables and after changing them to the correct position, reconnecting the batteries and then last of all reconnecting the panel. I am not trying to confuse the issue just trying to prevent any damage if what the manufacturers say is true. Hope this helps. 
Barnacle.


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## trevskoda (Nov 3, 2016)

Battery voltage as follows 13.7/14.4 common on vh alts when running,once the engine is shut down the  voltage will slowly drop to 12.7 ,this is called the standing voltage on a good battery,you can use  with no problem down to about 12.2,at around 12v the battery is half charged and must be cycled back up and not left to long.
As for dels controller there is nout going to the batters from the solar panels at all the way its wired at present,even 400w of solar if fitted ant going to put a lot in at low sun level and shorter winter days though i dont see why a l/top with good batts is pulling so much power,i think it may be due to those old light units that were fitted.


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## bellars (Nov 3, 2016)

Do you run your laptop through an inverter? If so you could try one of these to run direct from 12V, uses less power.

ZOZO™ 90W Universal Laptop + 10W USB Port 2 in 1: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics


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## andyjanet (Nov 3, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Battery voltage as follows 13.7/14.4 common on vh alts when running,once the engine is shut down the  voltage will slowly drop to 12.7 ,this is called the standing voltage on a good battery,you can use the with no problem down to about 12.2,at around 12v the battery is half charged and must be cycled back up and not left to long.
> As for dels controller there is nout going to the batters from the solar panels at all the way its wired at present,even 400w of solar if fitted ant going to put a lot in at low sun level and shorter winter days though i dont see why a l/top with good batts is pulling so much power,i think it may be due to those old light units that were fitted.


Collette has flourescant light fittings and we will upgrade them to leds each time we get together, a s for Collette's laptop I am not sure if she uses it connected to the leisure battery all the time or uses the battery in the laptop and then recharges from the leisure once flat, will this make a difference,
Also Collette was only using the vehicle alternator and solar to charge her batterys, so after using the van for a weekend would drive home using the alternator to charge then leave it at home for a period of time and charge the leisure by driving to her next location, I have suggested Collette keeps her van on charge whilst at home plugged into 240v thus she can leave home with fully charged batterys instead of relying on the alternator putting enough charge into the batteries to last her next wild camp. Imo leaving home with full batteries is better than trying to charge on way to location, it's a Mitsubishi l300 and might only have a 45 amp alternator as it's a grey import. Andy


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

bellars said:


> Do you run your laptop through an inverter? If so you could try one of these to run direct from 12V, uses less power.
> 
> ZOZOâ„¢ 90W Universal Laptop + 10W USB Port 2 in 1: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics




Thank you   -  i run my laptop (always in daylight)   on a 12v cigar socket in the hab unit which is connected to the twin-paired leisure batteries.    i also have a 12v cigar socket on the other side of the van linked to the original single leisure battery   - so i can sit/type/work  with the best view at all times !!

i always use laptop plugged into my van sockets.  I suppose I could buy a bigger laptop battery    (£42)  to get 50% additional useage, then recharge the laptop in the house on 240v  -  or on campsites if i am out and about.

i have an inverter but have never used it


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

andyjanet said:


> Collette has flourescant light fittings and we will upgrade them to leds each time we get together, a s for Collette's laptop I am not sure if she uses it connected to the leisure battery all the time or uses the battery in the laptop and then recharges from the leisure once flat, will this make a difference,
> Also Collette was only using the vehicle alternator and solar to charge her batterys, so after using the van for a weekend would drive home using the alternator to charge then leave it at home for a period of time and charge the leisure by driving to her next location, I have suggested Collette keeps her van on charge whilst at home plugged into 240v thus she can leave home with fully charged batterys instead of relying on the alternator putting enough charge into the batteries to last her next wild camp. Imo leaving home with full batteries is better than trying to charge on way to location, it's a Mitsubishi l300 and might only have a 45 amp alternator as it's a grey import. Andy



Andy  i have not connected van to EHU at home at yet cos i am now using the van 2-3 times a week  - driving up to an hour sometimes to go to uni.  I assumed this will recharge batts.     If i hooked up to EHU for 23 hours  are you suggesting i would get a reading of  13.8 once fully charged as hairydog has suggested  - or even 14.4 as trev has mentioned ?


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> Although the controller is wired wrongly, it doesn't matter.
> 
> There are three pairs of connections:
> 1. From the solar panel
> ...




could you kindly post me a link for a suitable  MPPT controller  so that  i can have a read....    thanks.  If this is the answer,  (along with new lights)  it  sounds like i might not need an additional new solar panel.....


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## andyjanet (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Andy  i have not connected van to EHU at home at yet cos i am now using the van 2-3 times a week  - driving up to an hour sometimes to go to uni.  I assumed this will recharge batts.     If i hooked up to EHU for 23 hours  are you suggesting i would get a reading of  14+ once fully charged as someone else has suggested  ?


Collette! If you start the van and drive it with the headlights/ heater on it can take an hours drive to recharge your battery to the state it was in before you started it, so nothing going into the battery until you have driven an hour, now this is a large variant so depending on the age of batterys/ how cold it is.
The magic number 14 is achievable and it will only show if you check battery voltage immediately on turning the engine off, as someone has said before 12.7 is a floating voltage so the battery is fully charged and is resting so several hours after charge has been stopped, 
Is the battery in your laptop any good how long can you use the laptop without being connected to the leisure battery, it might be that the battery in the laptop is a dud and sucking all the juice out of you leisure


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> Yes. The "never let your battery drop below" voltage is the "resting" voltage. If you are running lights etc the voltage will be lower than if nothing at all is switched on. There is a way to assess the state of charge of a battery from its voltage as long as it is not providing any power at the time (or for the last ten minutes) but you will need to *measure the voltage accurately*.
> 
> As a rule of thumb, you should be concerned if the voltage drops below 12.00v and I'd stop using it when it drops below 11.90v *but 12.30v is much too high a "low limit" for practical use*. It's probably about 60% full. 40% full is a more sensible lower limit,  though trying to avoid dropping below 50% is a good idea if convenient.
> 
> ...



i have a good multi meter which i use every day when i am out in the wild.

12.30v = too high   -  thanks for that  - i know i am a cautious soul  - i will revise my "time to move on reading" downwards.


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## Private (Nov 3, 2016)

*Mains charge*

You should be getting a mains charge when possible. 
Your batteries will be better for the longer, steadier charge than the stop start charge of solar/alternator which is not likely to be getting your batteries to 100% capacity at this time of year.
Home electricity is cheaper than petrol/diesel generated electricity too.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

andyjanet said:


> Collette! If you start the van and drive it with the headlights/ heater on it can take an hours drive to recharge your battery to the state it was in before you started it, so nothing going into the battery until you have driven an hour, now this is a large variant so depending on the age of batterys/ how cold it is.
> The magic number 14 is achievable and it will only show if you check battery voltage immediately on turning the engine off, as someone has said before 12.7 is a floating voltage so the battery is fully charged and is resting so several hours after charge has been stopped,
> Is the battery in your laptop any good how long can you use the laptop without being connected to the leisure battery, it might be that the battery in the laptop is a dud and sucking all the juice out of you leisure



you taught me about resting readings last  year and i took that on board when taking readings at the same stage of battery use.

All batteries are 2 years old, and were tested/measured 2 days ago and all are working perfectly.

Laptop  - i dont know how old the battery is - i have had the laptop 2 years and it was secondhand  then.  maybe its time for a new battery.  i can use it only for an hour on its own internal battery before it shuts down. i only use it for word docs, spreadsheet and a card game and mahjong.


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## colinm (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> could you kindly post me a link for a suitable  MPPT controller  so that  i can have a read....    thanks.  If this is the answer,  (along with new lights)  it  sounds like i might not need an additional new solar panel.....



Don't bother, you will not get those sort of figures with your set up. For mppt to show any sort of improvement you will need about 200w of panels.


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## wildman (Nov 3, 2016)

I am not going to read through all of the replies so forgive me if the question has already been answered.  the inputs are in three pairs each of a live and a neutral they should be connected in the following order to prevent damage to the controller.
1. connect the battery to the middle pair, that powers the charger and limits incoming charge from causing any damage. 
2. Connect the solar panel to the left hand pair. The battery is now being charged.
3. The right hand pair is for a 12v regulated load and a lot of the PWM regulators were designed to operate lights automatically when the sun went down output is protected, i,e, if the battery is discharged too far the load will switch off to protect the battery from damage. There are a number of settings available in the menu to select how long light/load should remain on, there is also an option to enable power out unrestrained by time. In my old van we had the TV connected to that pair thus preventing the batteries discharging to a point where damage was caused. I suspect the way you have it wired the solar is not charging the batteries at all.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

wildman said:


> I am not going to read through all of the replies so forgive me if the question has already been answered.  the inputs are in three pairs each of a live and a neutral they should be connected in the following order to prevent damage to the controller.
> 1. connect the battery to the middle pair, that powers the charger and limits incoming charge from causing any damage.
> 2. Connect the solar panel to the left hand pair. The battery is now being charged.
> 3. The right hand pair is for a 12v regulated load and a lot of the PWM regulators were designed to operate lights automatically when the sun went down output is protected, i,e, if the battery is discharged too far the load will switch off to protect the battery from damage. There are a number of settings available in the menu to select how long light/load should remain on, there is also an option to enable power out unrestrained by time. In my old van we had the TV connected to that pair thus preventing the batteries discharging to a point where damage was caused. I suspect the way you have it wired the solar is not charging the batteries at all.




YOU AND SEVERAL others think the same thing  wildman......    i have taken photos of the controller, and i have it on my phone  - i am in the process of trying to send it to mistericeman so he can upload it  to this forum.     

i have found the photo and have  attached it to the email and i thought it had gone  but  -  the phone is now  saying MMS and there is a moving circle but nothing is happening...... it does not seem to be sending it.....   sighs



it took ages   -  but i think its been transmitted....    fingers crossed....


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

Private said:


> You should be getting a mains charge when possible.
> Your batteries will be better for the longer, steadier charge than the stop start charge of solar/alternator which is not likely to be getting your batteries to 100% capacity at this time of year.
> Home electricity is cheaper than petrol/diesel generated electricity too.




I should have listened to Andyjanet  ages ago.....    sorry     ...    :egg::egg:      Van now connected to hook up at home..... the  start reading is   12.67.   i will let you know the outcome when i get back from the theatre.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> Another comment:  your solar panel is not meant to charge the batteries. It just helps the alternator charge them. It's only in recent years that solar panels were even possible. Lots of us have used motorhomes for decades with no solar panels.
> 
> In winter, you can expect the equivalent of just one hour of sunshine every day. So a 100W panel will give about 50 watt hours (half its capacity because the sun is striking it at a low angle) *That's only four amp hours*. The secret is to use less power: LED lights, 12 adapter for your laptop - and set the laptop to run on battery power profile to reduce consumption. No inverters.




so how long could i run my laptop for on four amp hours  on a 12v socket ?


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## mistericeman (Nov 3, 2016)

First picture of Delicagirls controller


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> First picture of Delicagirls controller




YEYHAAA  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!     WE did it !!!      Teamwork   brill !!  many thanks   xx


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## harrow (Nov 3, 2016)

1. Get a room at a Travelodge and get free electricity.

2. Use a campsite and have a electric hook up.

Option 3. and it is the cheapest, stay at home.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

harrow said:


> 1. *Get a room at a Travelodge* and get free electricity.
> 
> 2. Use a campsite and have a electric hook up.
> 
> Option 3. and it is the cheapest, stay at home.





With you ?   :lol-049: 

staying at home is not a challenge......  i love a good challenge...   we all know that  !!!!!


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## runnach (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> Never a good idea. The bigger the battery bank the better. Keeping a battery as spare is not good for the spare or for the ones being used.



If you re read I was suggesting use the 110 ah stand alone for the laptop. on the basis the other two are 100 ah so disparity . Using the (bulb terminal) would allow this ? 

On the basis 100 w panel and 200 ah of batteries batts likely never getting near a full charge, which is then why I asked about batts discharging, naturally as voltage drops amperage drain increases. having the other battery on a separate circuit would help this ?

Channa


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## Private (Nov 3, 2016)

*Listen To This...*



hairydog said:


> Both!
> 
> What should happen is a three stage charge pattern:
> 
> ...



If Hairydog has typed the above from his head (it looks that way to me) then that is the person to take note of for the technical detail.
We all have our ideas & limited knowledge, most of which can be useful to you, but for someone to use the correct terms & numbers straight from their head shows they KNOW the subject so when/if getting conflicting comments my money would be on Hairydog having it correct.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

Private said:


> If Hairydog has typed the above from his head (it looks that way to me) then that is the person to take note of for the technical detail.
> We all have our ideas & limited knowledge, most of which can be useful to you, but for someone to use the correct terms & numbers straight from their head shows they KNOW the subject so when/if getting conflicting comments my money would be on Hairydog having it correct.



i very much agree with you as he has written it in an English that i can understand  - just  -    !!!!


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## colinm (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> Utterly and completely wrong. If you don't have a clue about the subject, please don't add nonsensical comments.




I'm sorry I only have 30 years experience of using solar panels, what the hell would I know.


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## mistericeman (Nov 3, 2016)

This might throw some light on your solar controllers functions Dels.... 

it looks externally slightly different BUT I strongly suspect that, the internal architecture/function are the same. 

Get you started how to operate Pwm solar charge controller - YouTube


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## runnach (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> There is an argument for connecting the laptop supply to the load (bulb) terminal, but keep the battery bank as one.
> 
> Think of the batteries as water tanks, connected together by pipes in their bases. All the tanks are 12v deep, but some are 100Ah wide, others 110Ah wide. If you take water out of one tank, the others will go down the same amount. It really doesn't matter that they're different widths. They all pull together to provide the power. Similarly they fill up together.
> 
> The problem comes if one of them springs a leak. That will empty all the tanks. That's why you should replace faulty batteries. They can bring the whole bank down with them if they lose charge.



Which is why I am suggesting the bank should be split, ironically having a chat earlier with a pal who is a qualified electrician
( 40 years plus) apparently unbeknown to me my madness is employed in the marine industry. if the bank is split negates the scenario I have highlighted, equally ensures never without 12 v power source. simply manually select which battery to charge 

Channa


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> This might throw some light on your solar controllers functions Dels....
> 
> it looks externally slightly different BUT I strongly suspect that, the internal architecture/function are the same.
> 
> Get you started how to operate Pwm solar charge controller - YouTube



it looks fairly similar to mine.  

Well   -   that was an interesting demonstration  ....   i never knew any of that   -   thank you.   Tomorrow i will go and look at the controller in the daylight and see if i can do what he did in the video and see what happens. 

he seemed to be saying, if i understood him, that you could "set" the solar panel to start working in a different way for x number of hours after sunset.   if thats right -   is it so that energy stored in the panel in the daylight will be released at night time for me to use.


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## mid4did (Nov 3, 2016)

I would make 1 observation.The wiring going to/from the lightbulb connectors on the right doesn't look man enough(if you can still use that term) to prevent voltage drop from the controller to the batteries.Correct me if I'm wrong but I would say 4mm² cable?


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## mistericeman (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> it looks fairly similar to mine.
> 
> Well   -   that was an interesting demonstration  ....   i never knew any of that   -   thank you.   Tomorrow i will go and look at the controller in the daylight and see if i can do what he did in the video and see what happens.
> 
> he seemed to be saying, if i understood him, that you could "set" the solar panel to start working in a different way for x number of hours after sunset.   if thats right -   is it so that energy stored in the panel in the daylight will be released at night time for me to use.



More that it can be set to switch on a exterior light etc to come on as it goes dark etc.... 
the panel doesn't actually store any power just generates it and passes it onto the battery/ies


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## trevskoda (Nov 3, 2016)

One thing i forgot to say,a laptop or any pc uses a lot more power running windows that linux as the hard drive is always chattering away & programs running in background,linux does not do this so batterys last a bit longer,now im in for it head down.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> That rather depends on the laptop. The laptop battery will have a rated capacity and a rated run time (not what it does manage, but what it is meant to), and that should give you an idea of how much power the laptop actually uses.
> 
> To give a very rough guide, a typical laptop battery (when new and in good order) is around *20v 3.0Ah* and will power the laptop for about 90 to 120 minutes. 20v x 3A = 60 watt hours. Divide 60 watts by 12 volts and you need 5 Amp Hours.
> 
> ...





i have brought my laptop in from the van and it is a Packard Bell.   Underneath, on the bottom,  of it  i can see  model MS2285  DC RATING 19V  -  3.42A  (3,42a).   Opening it up inside there is a paper label which says  Easynote TJ71    15.6"  16:9 HD   LED LCD.

You were right hairy  ....

 so i assume  i should be able to use this for  2 hours at least on its own internal battery .   

my local small computer shop says he can get me a new battery with 50% more capacity  ?   The battery is a great long lump of a thing !!!  

whatever i decide to do  i will buy a new battery  - as that can only help in the  "leaking batteries are not good" debate.  What size of battery is the question.   A 50% bigger battery would probably need a lot more driving to top it up again if i used it till the laptopscreen went blank wouldn't it ?


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## wildman (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> YOU AND SEVERAL others think the same thing  wildman......    i have taken photos of the controller, and i have it on my phone  - i am in the process of trying to send it to mistericeman so he can upload it  to this forum.
> 
> i have found the photo and have  attached it to the email and i thought it had gone  but  -  the phone is now  saying MMS and there is a moving circle but nothing is happening...... it does not seem to be sending it.....   sighs
> 
> ...


The photo you submitted of your controller is the same as the one I described. I'll have a look in the workshop and try to find the instructions for you.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

THANK you wildman....   that would be brilliant if you could find it  -   then i can do what the bloke in the UTUBE clip did !!!!!


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> More that it can be *set to switch on a exterior light* etc to come on as it goes dark etc....
> the panel doesn't actually store any power just generates it and passes it onto the battery/ies



thanks -  i dont have any external lights  -   except the lights i switch on to drive at night of course


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## klaatu (Nov 3, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> One thing i forgot to say,a laptop or any pc uses a lot more power running windows that linux


Not so. See, for example, How to squeeze more battery life from your Linux laptop | PCWorld


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> One thing i forgot to say,a laptop or any pc uses a lot more power running windows that linux as the hard drive is always chattering away & programs running in background,linux does not do this so batterys last a bit longer,now im in for it head down.




Trev i never have my laptop linked to the internet  - so what other programmes is it going to have chuntering away in the background ?


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> I thought that too. You really don't want any voltage drop even if the maximum current will only be about 3A.




so i need to suggest to my electrical guy (when he is available as he is semi retired)  that maybe its a good idea to re-wire from the right hand pair of screws to the dual-battery bank with a thicker cable ?


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## colinm (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> Rather less than I'd expect, it seems.
> 
> OK, Mr Expert, explain why an MPPT controller can only work with a panel of at least 200 Watts.



The mppt only works when the voltage exceeds 15 (if you don't believe me look it up in your manual) now tell me how many hours per day in november a 100w panel will get over 15v.


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## trevskoda (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Trev i never have my laptop linked to the internet  - so what other programmes is it going to have chuntering away in the background ?



Nearly all programs run at a small amount under windows,there is a program on you l/t which will show whats running in background,i also have one on my distro which shows every thing here shut down except what im using and my firewall even when not on the net,nearly everyone who works with pc will or should be abble to show & tell you this,have a look at the hd led on a window pc and you will see it flickering away some times for no apparent reason.


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## Canalsman (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Trev i never have my laptop linked to the internet  - so what other programmes is it going to have chuntering away in the background ?



Windows allows you to tailor your power consumption on a laptop.

It is worth examining the options. For instance my Windows 7 laptop has a 'Power saver' option. This is intended to maximise the laptop battery life when not using the mains. However if you are connecting your laptop to a 12v outlet it is worth reducing the power it's using by selecting such a scheme.

It is also worth setting up Windows to power off the screen after a short time of idleness, and to reduce the screen brightness if possible. The screen uses quite a bit of energy so this will reduce the overall energy consumption.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

What is Maximum Power Point Tracking (MPPT)

i understood a fair  bit of this article -  but bits area still baffling.....  but it seems to be saying that MPPT   are better than the one i have ?


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## colinm (Nov 3, 2016)

hairydog said:


> Ah, I see. You base your knowledge on reading a manual. I used to write manuals for a living. That's the difference.
> 
> For your information, the panel voltage does indeed go above 15 volts in November (though not for many hours in a day - minutes per day is more the mark for decent output at this time of year, which is why MPPT is so vital).
> 
> You must have a very inferior MPPT controller if it only works with panel voltages that high. Admittedly few have boost circuits (although some do, I've never seen one that does). As long as the panel voltage is higher than the battery voltage, there is scope for MPPT.



That is the spec for YOUR controller, not mine.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

POI Admin said:


> Windows allows you to tailor your power consumption on a laptop.
> 
> It is worth examining the options. For instance my W*indows 7 laptop has a 'Power saver' option*. This is intended to maximise the laptop battery life when not using the mains. However if you are connecting your laptop to a 12v outlet it is worth reducing the power it's using by selecting such a scheme.
> 
> It is also worth setting up Windows to power off the screen after a short time of idleness, and to reduce the screen brightness if possible. The screen uses quite a bit of energy so this will reduce the overall energy consumption.



thanks chris   ..  i tried to do this several weeks ago after someone recommended it...   i have Windows 7 also   -  but failed to find how i could do it in spite of lots of searching and googling..

is there a quick way into power saving options please ?


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## Canalsman (Nov 3, 2016)

If you look at the System Tray (bottom right of the screen usually) you may have an icon that shows a two pin mains plug (when on mains/external power source).

Right click on this and you should be able to choose 'Power Options'.

Otherwise go to Control Panel, Hardware and Sound. You'll find it in there too.


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## trevskoda (Nov 3, 2016)

Here is a few picys of linux resource usage ,you can see im about 4 col /in from left all zeros exept whats running,i think there is i or two reds,on top right it shows 2 programs running,this is why linux runs much faster than win & uses less power.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

*maybe cat among the pigeons.......*

i have just found the pencil  flow-chart diagram that the person who installed this  solar panel/controller/inverter  gaves me at the time....  i didn't understand a word of it to be honest as i had only bought the van a few weeks earlier  .  He had drawn it.   

it shows   a solar panel with one cable connecting it to 

                 the solar panel  controller   with  one cable  leaving it    to go to  the 

                         new single leisure 12v  battery      with two cables leaving it to go to the 

                                 inverter  (which has two 3-pin 240 sockets built into in)  and   one socket contains a 


                                      4 gang 3-pin 240v  extension lead 


is this helpful or just a red herring   ??


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

POI Admin said:


> If you look at the System Tray (bottom right of the screen usually) you may have an icon that shows a two pin mains plug (when on mains/external power source).
> 
> Right click on this and you should be able to choose '*Power Options'.*
> 
> Otherwise go to Control Panel, Hardware and Sound. You'll find it in there too.




Found it !!!!!!   i  opted for * Power Saver* as opposed to *Balanced*  options.     

 the right click also tells me that i have     55 minutes   (76%) remaining   (i am using the laptop battery just now  -  not on mains) -   thats useful too.


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## trevskoda (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> i have just found the pencil  flow-chart diagram that the person who installed this  solar panel/controller/inverter  gaves me at the time....  i didn't understand a word of it to be honest as i had only bought the van a few weeks earlier  .  He had drawn it.
> 
> it shows   a solar panel with one cable connecting it to
> 
> ...



What are you using a inverter for as they eat power.


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

i have *never used the inverte*r Trev   -   this  shyster   charged me  £700 to fit a panel, the controller and an inverter, knowing full well that my van was an electrical  mess -  i know this because  he had a van just like mine.....

on my first solo van trip, when i woke up to a powerless van, with dead batteries in a campsite in Wales,  -   the really helpful site  manager told me all about inverters...  i have never used it, so it could come out of my van really.....


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## trevskoda (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> i have *never used the inverte*r Trev   -   this  shyster   charged me  £700 to fit a panel, the controller and an inverter, knowing full well that my van was an electrical  mess -  i know this because  he had a van just like mine.....
> 
> on my first solo van trip, when i woke up to a powerless van, with dead batteries in a campsite in Wales,  -   the really helpful site  manager told me all about inverters...  i have never used it, so it could come out of my van really.....


Robbing she ite ,at least with the help of good folk on here your we self has learned a lot about van things.:wave:


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Robbing she ite ,at least with the help of good folk on here your we self has learned a lot about van things.:wave:



i sure have Trev, i sure have....... :wave:


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## Fazerloz (Nov 3, 2016)

Even though you don't use it its not turned on is it.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

Fazerloz said:


> Even though you don't use it its not turned on is it.




i am 99% sure its not  -  but i will check tomorrow......     thanks fazer 

I've just thought of one thing that could be  "on"  or not as the case may be   -   the small red light on the dashboard panel which tells me that my handbrake is on or off  -     the light is always on, even when the handbrake is off...   but the garage said it doesn't matter.   Obviously it is not showing  red when i take the key out of the ignition -  but is it still "on"  and draining power  ?


----------



## Private (Nov 3, 2016)

*Wireless Off?*



delicagirl said:


> Trev i never have my laptop linked to the internet



Have you turned wireless off? Should not be required if never connected to internet. Sometimes a physical switch, sometimes on function keys to switch off.

Bluetooth too if fitted & not used.


----------



## trevskoda (Nov 3, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> i am 99% sure its not  -  but i will check tomorrow......     thanks fazer
> 
> I've just thought of one thing that could be  "on"  or not as the case may be   -   the small red light on the dashboard panel which tells me that my handbrake is on or off  -     the light is always on, even when the handbrake is off...   but the garage said it doesn't matter.   Obviously it is not showing  red when i take the key out of the ignition -  but is it still "on"  and draining power  ?



Nop,mine dont work either.


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## delicagirl (Nov 3, 2016)

Private said:


> Have you turned wireless off? Should not be required if never connected to internet. Sometimes a physical switch, sometimes on function keys to switch off.
> 
> Bluetooth too if fitted & not used.



thank you i have just found some definitions of the icons on the function keys   -  i will investigate tomorrow when i am not to tired..    thanks for reminding me of function keys  -  i forget all about them most of the time.


i suspect the laptop may be too old to have had bluetooth fitted


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## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

i need to wait till the electrical guy has a few hours to spare before asking him to rewire the controller....

meanwhile .....

my neighbour popped over and looked at my vans electric board  and he produced the usual response  raised eyebrows and   "OMG  its a work of art, what the hell does it all do?"   He has been vanning for over 30 years but does have a really modern van. 

i digress.

 his wife uses their laptop, in their van, without being connected to EHU, by plugging it into the Inverter with a 3pin 240v  plug and she can type for a very long time indeed.

i don't pretend to understand how inverters work (I have never used mine) nor can i figure out why this could work but i am going to give it a try - i plan to measure the battery, then  type for a few hours, then measure it again and see what the battery readings are.

Any views ?  Comments chaps ?   Thanks


----------



## colinm (Nov 5, 2016)

An inverter adds another inefficiency in the system.
But I'm intrigued, do you plug straight into 12v now with no charger? I've not seen a 12v laptop, I guess they exist, but all I've seen are higher voltage.


----------



## yeoblade (Nov 5, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> i need to wait till the electrical guy has a few hours to spare before asking him to rewire the controller....
> 
> meanwhile .....
> 
> ...



And so do I, though more watching than typing. I have 3 inverters in my van, a 2.2Kw with remote to switch on and power all the mains sockets, for the toaster etc. And a couple of small ones that are really useful for just the odd small current appliance , up to 150 watts. The big one is a bit power hungry/noisy with the fan running but certainly cuts the mustard .


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 5, 2016)

I went down the inverter route for powering the TV / Satellite and charging the Laptop when not on EHU.

I have 2 X 100ah batteries and a Sterling Pro Power Q 350W inverter     Sterling Power - Pro Power Q 12v, 350w Inverter [PN: I12350]

The reason was that i don`t have to have 2 sets of leads for them and mess about changing them over to 12 volt leads depending on whether we have EHU or not.

The Phones and Mi-Fi unit are charged using their own USB leads plugged into one of these from Boots      Go Travel USB In-car Charger - Boots

This way works for us and i`ve never had any problems.


----------



## colinm (Nov 5, 2016)

Another thought I've just had, when charging at moment how hot does the charger and/or battery get, it could just be the battery on an old laptop is so knackered it's taking too much to charge it.


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

colinmd said:


> An inverter adds another inefficiency in the system.
> But I'm intrigued, do you plug straight into 12v now with no charger? I've not seen a 12v laptop, I guess they exist, but all I've seen are higher voltage.



i have a very old laptop for which i bought a "12v" lead from a specialist computer shop on my travels.  The lead has an oblong  heavy box in the middle of the cable and a cigar socket plug at the non-computer end.  When i use the laptop at home i use a cable with a 3pin 240v cable and plug into the mains.


i assume this box is some sort of transformer ?


The laptop does get hot after 2-3 hours, but the cable/plug/socket does not get hot.


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

yeoblade said:


> And so do I, though more watching than typing. I have 3 inverters in my van, a 2.2Kw with remote to switch on and power all the mains sockets, for the toaster etc. And a couple of small ones that are really useful for just the odd small current appliance , up to 150 watts. The big one is a bit power hungry/noisy with the fan running but certainly cuts the mustard .



can you use all these appliances when you are not on EHU ?    How big a solar panel have you got and how many batteries have you got ?   thanks


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

Wooie1958 said:


> I went down the inverter route for powering the TV / Satellite and charging the Laptop when not on EHU.
> 
> I have 2 X 100ah batteries and a Sterling Pro Power Q 350W inverter     Sterling Power - Pro Power Q 12v, 350w Inverter [PN: I12350]
> 
> ...



Thanks   -  all these different bits of technology -   blows my mind!!   

The Boots product you illustrate is similar to a  (double adaptor) unit i got from Halfords. It had 4 sockets on it.  Generally i only used one at a time.  But one day i charged my phone at the same time as using my laptop.  After a while i saw smoke and realised that the plastic adaptor box was melting and burning the upholstery !!!!   The metal plug on the end of the cable next to the socket was also very hot indeed.   I have never used a double adaptor since. 

i charge my phone in a cigarette lighter socket which is wired directly off the twin leisure batteries, and i use my laptop from a USB socket right next to it, but never the two simultaneously   -  i dont want to tempt fate again !!


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

Wooie1958 said:


> I went down the inverter route for powering the TV / Satellite and charging the Laptop when not on EHU.
> 
> I have 2 X 100ah batteries and a Sterling Pro Power Q 350W inverter     Sterling Power - Pro Power Q 12v, 350w Inverter [PN: I12350]
> 
> ...



Thanks  wooie.....    i dont mind having 2 sets of leads, as i go to a bed n breakfast once a month for a treat when i am out on really long trips, and its handy to have a 240v cable there, also in COSTA's where i borrow their wifi sometimes.


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## Canalsman (Nov 5, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> i have a very old laptop for which i bought a "12v" lead from a specialist computer shop on my travels.  The lead has an oblong  heavy box in the middle of the cable and a cigar socket plug at the non-computer end.  When i use the laptop at home i use a cable with a 3pin 240v cable and plug into the mains.
> 
> 
> i assume this box is some sort of transformer ?
> ...



This is the most efficient way to power your laptop.

If you charge the laptop battery using this power adapter from a cigar lighter that's live when the engine's running, and you don't plan to use the laptop for longer than it will run on its own battery, that is your best option for energy saving.

If you do plan to exceed the laptop battery life, I would use the adapter with the laptop battery fully charged. That way the only power taken from your leisure batteries is that which is required to run the laptop (rather than run the laptop and charge it).


----------



## mid4did (Nov 5, 2016)

I use this one for my laptop in the car but definately need to either keep the engine running or use it for short periods say half an hour.
It does use up the amps if your not careful.Came with a load of adapters for different laptops.
12V In Car/In-Air Laptop Adapter with USB Socket 1A With 6 Charging Tips | Maplin
edit £5 off offer brings it down to about what I paid for mine a few years back.


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

POI Admin said:


> This is the most efficient way to power your laptop.
> 
> If you charge the laptop battery using this power adapter from a cigar lighter that's live when the engine's running, and you don't plan to use the laptop for longer than it will run on its own battery, that is your best option for energy saving.
> 
> If you do plan to exceed the laptop battery life, I would use the adapter with the laptop battery fully charged. That way the only power taken from your leisure batteries is that which is required to run the laptop (rather than run the laptop and charge it).



ok i think i understand this..... 

 i need to ensure that my laptop battery is fully charged before leaving home ?  ( since i only use it in the house on 240-v i assume it will always be fully charged.)

and then once i have used it in the van i  will need to plug it in when i am driving to recharge it again ?


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

i have learnt another thing about my van today   -   i have been able to get a better look at  the big yellow metal box hidden behind my gas fire  that andy and  i thought was a battery charger. I was able to see  part of a word - RANSFO     -   since Andy traced this boxes' cable back to the EHU plug on the outside rear of the van i can only assume that it is a Transformer  -  probably  converting  the original  110v Japanese wiring to 240v to feed a 4 gang 240v consumer unit which i use at EHU on a very rare occasion. 

progress ?  or another step backwards  lol !!!


----------



## Canalsman (Nov 5, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> ok i think i understand this.....
> 
> i need to ensure that my laptop battery is fully charged before leaving home ?  ( since i only use it in the house on 240-v i assume it will always be fully charged.)
> 
> and then once i have used it in the van i  will need to plug it in when i am driving to recharge it again ?



However you do it, to minimise the power drawn by the laptop when using it, ensure that the battery is fully charged before you use it IF you plan to use it for more than the time you get from its own battery.

If you're just going to use the laptop running on its own battery till it's flat, do just that then recharge when the engine's running.

Next time you use it repeat UNLESS you're going to exceed the laptop battery's life. In that case run the laptop using the 12v power adapter.

Does that make sense?


----------



## Canalsman (Nov 5, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> i have learnt another thing about my van today   -   i have been able to get a better look at  the big yellow metal box hidden behind my gas fire  that andy and  i thought was a battery charger. I was able to see  part of a word - RANSFO     -   since Andy traced this boxes' cable back to the EHU plug on the outside rear of the van i can only assume that it is a Transformer  -  probably  converting  the original  110v Japanese wiring to 240v to feed a 4 gang 240v consumer unit which i use at EHU on a very rare occasion.
> 
> progress ?  or another step backwards  lol !!!



There's no such thing as 110v wiring ... you can have 110v input to the 'van, and if you need to run 240v devices then a step-up transformer is required.

But here and in Europe the input voltage will be 220-240v so a transformer is NOT required. I imagine that if the yellow box is a transformer it must have been disconnected. Otherwise it would have gone BANG!


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## wildman (Nov 5, 2016)

colinmd said:


> An inverter adds another inefficiency in the system.
> But I'm intrigued, do you plug straight into 12v now with no charger? I've not seen a 12v laptop, I guess they exist, but all I've seen are higher voltage.


you can get a 12v converter (not inverter) that upscales 12v to whatever you need. They are excellent for a laptop and use less power than an inverter.

The battery will NOT be charging from the solar panel unless the battery is connected to the center pair of connections. However as it has been connected incorrectly the chances are is fobar,  err mucked up anyway.


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## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

POI Admin said:


> There's no such thing as 110v wiring ... you can have 110v input to the 'van, and if you need to run 240v devices then a step-up transformer is required.
> 
> But here and in Europe the input voltage will be 220-240v so a transformer is NOT required. I imagine that if the yellow box is a transformer it must have been disconnected. Otherwise it would have gone BANG!



my van is  a 23 year old japanese grey import 

Electricity in Japan


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## wildman (Nov 5, 2016)

it does not matter what voltage they use in Japan UNLESS you have items, fridge, TV etc of original fitment that require 110v to run in which case a stepdown transformer may have been fitted, otherwise it may be an INVERTER to provide 240v from your 12v batteries. You really need to start writting down salient points that are being made as some questions keep getting asked yet post show you have not remembered the right answer. It takes time to understand electrics, maybe time I ran another 12v seminar at a rally.


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## Canalsman (Nov 5, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> my van is  a 23 year old japanese grey import
> 
> Electricity in Japan



The point I was making is that wire is wire - it will conduct whatever voltage is supplied.

Disregarding different plugs and sockets for theoretical discussion, your 'van if used in Japan would have had 110v appliances used inside when on hookup. Here it will have 220v appliances connected using the same wiring.

I can't see why a transformer is required unless somebody modified the 'van to use 220v appliances when on 100v hookup ...


----------



## yeoblade (Nov 5, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> can you use all these appliances when you are not on EHU ?    How big a solar panel have you got and how many batteries have you got ?   thanks



A 250w solar Panel with MPPT controller, I've 2 x 115 AH batteries and when they're charged it tops up the Van battery. All fine in the summer.
I've got another 2 x 115AH batteries that I've put in in the winter as well. And a 2Kw suitcase genny in case :dance: But I have not done more than 3 night in winter without moving on, so not sure how long it would last

To stop all the plug changing I have disconnected the EHU plug on the van and wired this to a 13 amp plug which is plugged into the 2.2K inverter, then I just press the remote to have 240v live, even when driving.(ideal time to charge everything) If on EHU then this plug gets unplugged from the inverter and into the EHU lead.


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## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

wildman said:


> it does not matter what voltage they use in Japan UNLESS you have items, fridge, TV etc of original fitment that require 110v to run in which case a stepdown transformer may have been fitted, otherwise it may be an INVERTER to provide 240v from your 12v batteries. You really need to start writting down salient points that are being made as some questions keep getting asked yet post show you have not remembered the right answer. It takes time to understand electrics, maybe time I ran another 12v seminar at a rally.



Roger i appreciate your interest in this thread, and that you are giving me the best advice you know. Others give me their best advice and that may not be the same as yours.  Sometimes  i am unsure as to who to has the most useful tips for me.  If i am not learning as fast as you would like me to - I am sorry.  

Every 'expert'/electrician/vanner  who has looked at my van's electrics has never seen anything like it - ever.   You have not seen my van.  i am doing my best to describe what my set up is.  

What i do know is that the van was used exclusively on 110volts before it was imported.  The dealer i bought it from installed  some sort of device to allow me to plug in 240v equipment when i was on camp sites.  I recently  discovered what i think is a part of this device -  a big yellow box linking the EHU external socket and the 240v consumer unit which the dealer installed.  

So i have van which contains  12v cigar sockets, 240v 3 pin sockets, and 2 pin japanese 110v sockets.  Its no flaming wonder it is confusing !!!

Lets leave it for now and tomorrow is another day  ......


----------



## harrow (Nov 5, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> i have learnt another thing about my van today   -   i have been able to get a better look at  the big yellow metal box hidden behind my gas fire  that andy and  i thought was a battery charger. I was able to see  part of a word - RANSFO     -   since Andy traced this boxes' cable back to the EHU plug on the outside rear of the van i can only assume that it is a Transformer  -  probably  converting  the original  110v Japanese wiring to 240v to feed a 4 gang 240v consumer unit which i use at EHU on a very rare occasion.
> 
> progress ?  or another step backwards  lol !!!



:cool1:

Or was the RANSFO (French maker) used to convert "our" domestic 230/240 supply to 110 volts to run the fridge and any mains powered lamps?

The same sort of transformers used on building sites 230/240 down to 110 volts?


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

Do you have a link to the product you bought from them please ?    many thanks


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## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

POI Admin said:


> The point I was making is that wire is wire - it will conduct whatever voltage is supplied.
> 
> Disregarding different plugs and sockets for theoretical discussion, your 'van if used in Japan would have had 110v appliances used inside when on hookup. Here it will have 220v appliances* connected using the same wiring.*
> 
> I can't see why a transformer is required unless somebody modified the 'van to use 220v appliances when on 100v hookup ...



Thank you that clears up another conundrum in my brain


----------



## Robmac (Nov 5, 2016)

I would have thought it would have 110v appliances as fitted in Japan and the transformer was fitted when it was imported to convert 240v to 110v. Do you know if they are the original appliances?

As Harrow said, this is often used on building sites where many power tools of 110v are used.

We have several of these for my business;

Portable Site Transformer | Lighting & Electrical - Key


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

Robmac said:


> I would have thought it would have 110v appliances as fitted in Japan and the transformer was fitted when it was imported to convert 240v to 110v. Do you know if they are the original appliances?
> 
> As Harrow said, this is often used on building sites where many power tools of 110v are used.
> 
> ...




Thank you  Rob   - that looks hopeful  -  -  the thing in my van is the same colour and could well be the same size  !!   its too dark to see now, so i will go and have a better look tomorrow, albeit a  limited view  gained through a rear storage cupboard only accessible from outside the van.  


i will also look at the fridge -  which is a 3 way one - and see if i can find model no etc.  It looks old, but what do i know ???


----------



## harrow (Nov 5, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Do you have a link to the product you bought from them please ?    many thanks



Well its not alot of help but this is the link,

France Transfo is now part of Schneider Electric

IF the "transfo" is indeed a "step down to 110 volt transformer" then any thing connected to its output will also only receive 110 volts.

I guess it would be cheaper to use the transformer than buy a new fridge ?

Screwfix sell these things for about £65


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## Robmac (Nov 5, 2016)

harrow said:


> Well its not alot of help but this is the link,
> 
> France Transfo is now part of Schneider Electric
> 
> ...



I'm certainly no expert but I believe there are safety issues using stepdowns. 

120v 60Hz RV Transformer | RV Transformers

Perhaps a professional sparky would like to comment on the points in the link?


----------



## harrow (Nov 5, 2016)

Robmac said:


> I'm certainly no expert but I believe there are safety issues using stepdowns.
> 
> 120v 60Hz RV Transformer | RV Transformers
> 
> Perhaps a professional sparky would like to comment on the points in the link?



What we are talking about if used correctly they are used for safety :idea-007:


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## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

this video is very interesting  - i don't understand some of it  - but bearing in mind the shyster dealer i bought the van from,  i dont trust anything he did (he installed this big yellow box) so further investigations are definitely in order.


----------



## harrow (Nov 5, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> this video is very interesting  - i don't understand some of it  - but bearing in mind the shyster dealer i bought the van from,  i dont trust anything he did (he installed this big yellow box) so further investigations are definitely in order.



From your description it does sound like a building site transformer which halves the input voltage using a center tap transformer.

They are a yellow colour they are also quite heavy.


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## harrow (Nov 5, 2016)

harrow said:


> What we are talking about if used correctly they are used for safety :idea-007:



Having said that IF you are using a building site transformer and you are also using a RCD as your primary source of protection on the 230/240 supply point then anything past the 110 volt output is NOT protected by the RCD.

Having also said that 110 volts should not kill you !

On a electric hook up the RCD is the trip switch on the post where you plug in.


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## trevskoda (Nov 5, 2016)

Transformer sounds like another weight saving thing to go to junk yard .


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## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

harrow said:


> Having said that IF you are using a building site transformer and you are also using a RCD as your primary source of protection on the 230/240 supply point then anything past the 110 volt output is NOT protected by the RCD.
> 
> Having also said that 110 volts should not kill you !
> 
> On a electric hook up the RCD is the trip switch on the post where you plug in.



i will go and look at the electric board again tomorrow..... i am fairly certain there is a trip switch on it.


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## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Transformer sounds like another weight saving thing to go to junk yard .



hopefully so trev !!!


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## andyjanet (Nov 5, 2016)

harrow said:


> From your description it does sound like a building site transformer which halves the input voltage using a center tap transformer.
> 
> They are a yellow colour they are also quite heavy.


Hi all, it is a 110 volt building site transformer, I was will delicious a few weeks back and we decided to do some investigations.
The 110v transformer runs her Japanese fridge when on a site, so 240 v in 110 out to feed her fridge, 
Unfortunately when we met up it was wild camping and there wasn't a 240 v feed to check out the onboard battery charger, I have advised Collette not to use the inverter to power her laptop as she would be using loads of power from the batterys to run the inverter to power a laptop that we were able to buy a 12 v laptop power supply for. 
When I first started looking at Collette's van the lovely person that fitted the double batterys had them charging from the solar set up, but also to charge them from the original leisure battery he had used a pair of speaker wires running out through a hole in the furniture and tucked under the carpet just where people walk into the van oh yes forgot to say they were infused.
I fitted a fused link wire (30amp) with a 15 amp fuse between the single body leisure battery and the two newly fitted leisure batterys so Collette now has decent amps going to her batterys. Andy


----------



## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

Thank you Andy   -   you explain things  so much better than i do !!!!    -  that cos you knows what you's talking about !!!   unlike my good self......


----------



## Scampi30 (Nov 5, 2016)

POI Admin said:


> However you do it, to minimise the power drawn by the laptop when using it, ensure that the battery is fully charged before you use it IF you plan to use it for more than the time you get from its own battery.
> 
> If you're just going to use the laptop running on its own battery till it's flat, do just that then recharge when the engine's running.
> 
> ...



Hate to add more complcations but if you check the small print on a laptop transformer you will find it is 19v and not 12v.Charging a 19v with 12v will take forever engine running or not, however a small step up transformer from Maplins will do the job for a very reasonable price.


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## delicagirl (Nov 5, 2016)

Scampi30 said:


> Hate to add more complcations but if you check the small print on a laptop transformer you will find it is 19v and not 12v.Charging a 19v with 12v will take forever engine running or not, however a small step up transformer from Maplins will do the job for a very reasonable price.





my laptop has a label on the bottom saying that it is indeed 19v


----------



## wildman (Nov 5, 2016)

Scampi30 said:


> Hate to add more complcations but if you check the small print on a laptop transformer you will find it is 19v and not 12v.Charging a 19v with 12v will take forever engine running or not, however a small step up transformer from Maplins will do the job for a very reasonable price.


I'm sorry but you are incorrect a transformer will change AC to a different voltage not DC, that requires a Converter and they are of course available.


----------



## Scampi30 (Nov 5, 2016)

wildman said:


> I'm sorry but you are incorrect a transformer will change AC to a different voltage not DC, that requires a Converter and they are of course available.



Sorry, not an expert on details but if you go to Maplins they will supply you a gadget that will convert!!12v to half a dozen different volts


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## andyjanet (Nov 5, 2016)

*The tale of delicious van as I know it*

I will use del for delicious
2015 Hereford meet, 
Spoke with del about her van she had been advised to use an inverter connected to two leisure batterys under her settee to power her laptop, I explained that using this would use more power than using a 12 volt laptop power lead from the batterys, so off I trots up to Halfords and buy a 12 v USB and cigarette lighter socket this I fitted quickly to get it powered up asap, it was internal fused and although was £18 it decided that being a Chinese product it would melt and try to set her van on fire, after this del had another one fitted that is much better quality, del hasn't used the inverter since.
We have found out that dels internal lights are flourescant tubes and not led as she was told, our next job is to transform the tubes into led fitment.
Autumn 2015 
Fitted new link wire between single leisure battery standard fitment and her twin leisure batterys fitted under the settee 30A to replace speaker wire
2016 wild camping poi
Del also had a 240v battery charger stuffed in by the seller to charge the double battery's,the inverter also runs off these batterys, the single leisure only supplied her int lights and water pump. a few weeks ago whilst wild camping I used my iPhone to translate a lot of items in her van, the fuses are all marked in Japanese so this has helped a lot, here goes.
The 240v lead comes into the van to a four gang tent output like you hang on the tent pole, this has 13amp plugs that go to the builders transformer which supplies 110v to her fridge and another supply that used to be her water heater in the rear of the van, alongside the internal fuse box which is a work of art is a 240 volt charger unit a bit like a zig unit that we couldn't find out if it worked because we didn't have 240 where we were parked I advised del to connect her 240v at home and check her charge to the batterys, 
I gave del a multimeter to keep an eye on the batterys whilst away but the multimeter was a cheap one and was reading point two above the actual battery reading so I advised del not to let her battery get below 12.3 volts (12.1 on a calibrated multimeter) 
Hope this helps to clarify some of the van workings, I am trying to get dels van into a better state than it was when sold to her,
 the transformer is only powering her fridge when she plugs into 240, 
Her three leisure batterys are now charged by the alternater whilst driving and we get equal voltage at all three batterys even though they are in different parts of the van. 
These batterys are also supposed to be charged by the solar but I haven't had chance to check out the solar wiring yet,
We now know that the onboard zig charger doesn't work this is why the seller fitted an ordinary battery charger that he told del to connect to charge her batterys.
We have identified 90%of the fuses by translating the Japanese with an iPhone,
hope this helps I live about 80 miles from del and this has been done when we meet at meets or wild camping so working things out slowly for her. Andy


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## colinm (Nov 6, 2016)

Well it looks like you have enough friends to eventually get it all working.
Meantime, getting back to my earlier post, when you next charge the laptop, both on mains and 12v, after a few minutes grasp the 'block' and see how hot it's getting. The purpose is to see if the laptop batteries are maybe knackered and causing the charger to work too hard, this will usually be evident by it being hot as opposed to being warm.
As an example, laptop i'm charging whilst typing this has not the best battery, but the charger has only got comfortably warm after about 10mins, couple of months back I plugged in a drill battery to charge it, after a while I smelt 'hot electrics', when I touched the charger it was kin hot, the battery was u s and the charger was overheating, apart from the obvious danger of a overheating charger, that excess heat is power lost, not a definitive test but doesn't hurt to try.


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## Canalsman (Nov 6, 2016)

Scampi30 said:


> Sorry, not an expert on details but if you go to Maplins they will supply you a gadget that will convert!!12v to half a dozen different volts



This is what Delicagirl already has ...


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## jagmanx (Nov 6, 2016)

*Maplin or Power 4 Laptops*

Power 4 Laptops
The Web's Largest Supplier Of Laptop Power Adapters & Laptop Chargers | Power4Laptops
maybe about £20 depending on your laptop
Try this site as well for a 12V to 19V Device

I use maplin a lot but I needed this site for my HP stream laptop.
Unfortunately the device failed but it was replaced free of charge within 4 days

As others have said it is quicker to recharge a laptop when not using it !
If it takes 20 mins to recharge charge for ay 15mins off LB then running the engine and finish off engine battery.

Charge it before say noon so your solar panel will recharge the LB (3)


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## andyjanet (Nov 6, 2016)

Sorry delicious I seem to have killed your thread, I know you were trying to break the magical number you had on the van weight issues, 
Perhaps I will edit my post,

The 110 volt transformer is charging the solar panel, del also has a water pump that is pushing the cold water around the fridge and has a tube attached to her drivers seat to supply hot air for the blown air heating, that might get some more posts.


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## yeoblade (Nov 6, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> this video is very interesting  - i don't understand some of it  - but bearing in mind the shyster dealer i bought the van from,  i dont trust anything he did (he installed this big yellow box) so further investigations are definitely in order.



Have you considered reporting him or is he out of business now anyway. 
I think a guy I know may have bought from the the same 'Dealer' loads of issues,


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## delicagirl (Nov 6, 2016)

yeoblade said:


> Have you considered reporting him or is he out of business now anyway.
> I think a guy I know may have bought from the the same 'Dealer' loads of issues,



He is still in business and works from a winterbourne address just next to the M32 near Bristol.  he changes his trading business name fairly often -  that tells you everything about him......

its pointless chasing people like this  - even if you get a court order you will never get any money out of them.  i moved on from my anger about him a long time ago !!


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## delicagirl (Nov 6, 2016)

andyjanet said:


> Sorry delicious I seem to have killed your thread, I know you were trying to break the magical number you had on the van weight issues,
> *Perhaps I will edit my post,*
> 
> 
> ...




NO  NO    -  dont edit your post  -   i need to print it out so i know whats what !!!!!!


Sorry  Andy  -  that tube to the drivers seat ?    i rejigged it so its become  the in-house gin supply  :dance:


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## colinm (Nov 6, 2016)

I did wonder if Colette was a vegetarian, still it saves on the calor


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## yeoblade (Nov 6, 2016)

andyjanet said:


> Sorry delicious I seem to have killed your thread, I know you were trying to break the magical number you had on the van weight issues,
> Perhaps I will edit my post,
> 
> The 110 volt transformer is charging the solar panel, del also has a water pump that is pushing the cold water around the fridge and has a tube attached to her drivers seat to supply hot air for the blown air heating, that might get some more posts.



Are these  mods you have carried? Details please , I need them too


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## delicagirl (Nov 6, 2016)

yeoblade said:


> Are these  mods you have carried? Details please , I need them too



Methinks  Andy  is in wind-up mode today Yeo !!!


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## delicagirl (Nov 6, 2016)

harrow said:


> Having said that IF you are using a building site transformer and you are also using a RCD as your primary source of protection on the 230/240 supply point then anything past the 110 volt output is NOT protected by the RCD.
> 
> Having also said that 110 volts should not kill you !
> 
> On a electric hook up the RCD is the trip switch on the post where you plug in.




There is indeed a trip switch on the  post  where i plug in  - as Andy said it is a 3 gang 240v consumer unit  -  one plug is for the fridge, (for keeping the gin cool you understand!!), another is for the builders transformer,  so i have a third for odds n sods  when on EHU


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## harrow (Nov 6, 2016)

To a proper electrician who has experience of motorhomes all this is childs play.

Would you consider its time to renew all the fridge and electrical equipment and have it installed properly ?

Everything I have read so far sounds like its been constructed from items collected at a car boot sale, and installed by persons who has not got the required skills and have no sense of conscience or their actions.

Yes it is expensive.


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## delicagirl (Nov 6, 2016)

harrow said:


> To a proper electrician who has experience of motorhomes all this is childs play.
> 
> Would you consider its time to renew all the fridge and electrical equipment and have it installed properly ?
> 
> ...




Hi Harrow   -   the original wiring/fuses/installation is truly superb  -  it is a joy to behold it was so professionally done by a german company.

A lot of the problems are due to my learning curve -  i never wanted a van and knew nothing about them when i bought it  - and having bought a japanese mitsubishi truck base with a german  habitation unit, (all beautifully labelled in both foreign languages) was a challenge to say the least. 
In spite of all this it is the perfect van for me.

i accepted advice and employed people locally to me who in hindsight knew little about electrics and who conned me into thinking they did. 


Andyjanet is highly skilled and i trust him completely  - if he doesn't know about a particular aspect of my van he will tell me he doesn't, and we will find someone else to ask. 

The current wiring is safe, just complex. A full rewire would be way above my budget right now. 

Every time i raise a discussion  about this van on here i learn more and more.

When i look back at the notes i made when it bought this van, and compare them with what i know now....  WOW.  I may not always use the correct technical terms, but i am getting nearer to a full understanding of its configuration  -  thanks to all the knowledge this community possesses.


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## delicagirl (Nov 6, 2016)

Scampi30 said:


> Hate to add more complcations but if you check the small print on a laptop transformer you will find it is 19v and not 12v.Charging a 19v with 12v will take forever engine running or not, however a small step up transformer from Maplins will do the job for a very reasonable price.




ok   -   back to the laptop.  At   10.48 this morning it was  11%  full.   i plugged it into the 240v mains at home to recharge it  and it was 100% by 11.45.  So it takes round about an hour to charge on 240v.

How long would it take to charge it in the van at 12v please  ?    thanks


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## harrow (Nov 6, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> ok   -   back to the laptop.  At   10.48 this morning it was  11%  full.   i plugged it into the 240v mains at home to recharge it  and it was 100% by 11.45.  So it takes round about an hour to charge on 240v.
> 
> How long would it take to charge it in the van at 12v please  ?    thanks



The same time as long as the van charger functions correctly, the laptop is 19 volts ?

You do find the vehicle chargers do consume a fair amount of power and even the ones we had at work got quite hot.


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## delicagirl (Nov 6, 2016)

Another step forward   -  i finally succeeded in getting the in-house battery charger to work when plugged into 240v here at home.   All batteries reading above 14.25 .....YES!!!


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## delicagirl (Nov 6, 2016)

harrow said:


> The same time as long as the van charger functions correctly, the laptop is 19 volts ?
> 
> You do find the vehicle chargers do consume a fair amount of power and even the ones we had at work got quite hot.





thanks  so i clearly need to recharge my laptop when i am driving then.     Yes it is a 19 volts one.


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## jagmanx (Nov 6, 2016)

*The same*



delicagirl said:


> ok   -   back to the laptop.  At   10.48 this morning it was  11%  full.   i plugged it into the 240v mains at home to recharge it  and it was 100% by 11.45.  So it takes round about an hour to charge on 240v.
> 
> How long would it take to charge it in the van at 12v please  ?    thanks



The 12V to 19V device will provide the same output  ie 19V and 3.3 amps as your 240V to 19V Mains charger.
So the time will be the same

eg........
Power4Laptops Branded Car Charger
Input Voltage: 12V DC
Output Voltage: 19.5V
Output Amperage: 3.33A
Plug Size: 4.5mm X 3.0mm (HP centre pin)

so it will drain your LB as follows
Say 19.5V x 3. amps  equates to 12V at say 7 amps (Allowing for inefficiency)
7 amps for 1 hour - 7 amp hours aless than 10% of a SINGLE 85 amp hour battery (you have 3  !)

If your solar panel is 100Watts (say) supplying battery at 14V input is 8 amps (on a sunny day with the sun high)
so 8 amps with 1 hour of good sunshine will replenish the drain  whether it be one battery or 3.
(OK if it is dull it may take 2 or even 3 hours)

If this is not the case something else is draining your battery.

As I have said before charge your laptop before noon so the solar panel can re-plenish the battery bank

We toured all summer and only used  8 sites with EHU. We have a single LB (85 amp-hours) and the battery voltage NEVER dropped below 12.6 and that was using some heating (so fan) and some lighting. Charging the laptop (almost everyday) also USB powered Tablet and phone and cameras.
When the sun was shining it was at 14.4 V often by 9am !!!

To save angst keep the laptop "Reasonably charged" and / or charge it whilst running off the engine battery (cigarette lighter socket)


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## harrow (Nov 6, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Another step forward   -  i finally succeeded in getting the in-house battery charger to work when plugged into 240v here at home.   All batteries reading above 14.25 .....YES!!!



Yes and that's plenty.

:idea-007:

Old fashioned chargers will continue to make the voltage higher and higher if you have good batteries so 14.25 volts is enough.

Modern automatic battery chargers know when to stop and only charge when it is needed.


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## alwaysared (Nov 7, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> There is indeed a trip switch on the  post  where i plug in  - as Andy said it is a 3 gang 240v consumer unit  -  one plug is for the fridge, (for keeping the gin cool you understand!!), another is for the builders transformer,  so i have a third for odds n sods  when on EHU



Are you sure that one is for the fridge? If so the fridge must be 240v and therefore the transformer must be for something else.

Regards,
Del


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## oldish hippy (Nov 8, 2016)

are you sure that the fridge is only 110 not a 240 converted to run on 110 it could be a water heater running on a 110  or a 110 battery charger


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## delicagirl (Nov 8, 2016)

oldish hippy said:


> are you sure that the *fridge is only 110 not a 240 converted* to run on 110 it could be a water heater running on a 110  or a 110 battery charger




how would i know if that was the case hippy?

the fridge is a electrolux 12v/240v/gas one.

the van used to have a water heater - it no longer does.


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## oldish hippy (Nov 8, 2016)

So connect the hookup turn on{ iassume you mean in house charger the one fitted to the van} turn off every thing else except the charger  and if you can check to see if you have a output {volt coming out to the lesuire batterys} unplug yellow transformer and recheck that should tell you if the battery charger is 110 volt or not or just look for a labe on it or measure the voltage going into to it if possible PS DONT FORGET TO DISCONNECT FROM BATTERY WHEN CHECKING OUT PUT


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## andyjanet (Nov 8, 2016)

alwaysared said:


> Are you sure that one is for the fridge? If so the fridge must be 240v and therefore the transformer must be for something else.
> 
> Regards,
> Del


sorry reread and edited


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## trevskoda (Nov 8, 2016)

harrow said:


> Yes and that's plenty.
> 
> :idea-007:
> 
> ...



Correct and thats why i pull the old constant 10ah chargers out and fit a numax 10ah auto charger,just a few alloy brackets to make to hold in place.
The old type will boil batterys if left on constant thoe with as many as del that i dont think will be any prob.


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## harrow (Nov 8, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> how would i know if that was the case hippy?
> 
> the fridfge is a electrolux 12v/240v/gas one.
> 
> the van used to have a water heate - it no longer does.



I guess you mean *12volt/120 Volt/gas* not *12v/240v/gas one*

:dog:


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## delicagirl (Nov 8, 2016)

harrow said:


> I guess you mean *12volt/120 Volt/gas* not *12v/240v/gas one*
> 
> :dog:




The labelling on the fridge says  12v   240volt  and its also gas.    if i connect the van's EHU cable  to my homes external 240 socket  and switch on the fridge to 240v   -   next morning the ice box in the fridge is frozen  -  so i believe that the fridge was 110v originally and this "big yellow box" has allowed it to be used in Uk on 240v.

i cannot access the yellow box without taking the gas fire out and i am not going to attempt that myself.


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## harrow (Nov 8, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> The labelling on the fridge says  12v   240volt  and its also gas.    if i connect the van's EHU cable  to my homes external 240 socket  and switch on the fridge to 240v   -   next morning the ice box in the fridge is frozen  -  so i believe that the fridge was 110v originally and this "big yellow box" has allowed it to be used in Uk on 240v.
> 
> i cannot access the yellow box without taking the gas fire out and i am not going to attempt that myself.



Nothing is straight forward, I would have thought if it said it was 240 volt then it would be. :rolleyes2:


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## mid4did (Nov 8, 2016)

*the big yellow box*

So what happens if you unplug the yellow box,connect to home ehu and switch the fridge to 240v ? Or has this been done?


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## delicagirl (Nov 8, 2016)

Progress   -     i have now had the solar control panel rewired as per the forum's suggestions....    and also on andy janets recommendation.i have bought one of these

SUNGOLDPOWER 12V/24V Car Charger DC 5V 6.1A 3 USB Port: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics


With this device i can now easily measure my voltage without having to dismantle settee, access lockers and fiddle about with multi meters and mucking about  -   i  can   just plug this into a cigar socket and read the digital output.   i could also use it to charge my phone or camera battery as it has 2 USBs socket on it as well. 

i will check the voltage again tomorrow  -  go and do a few hours typing in it and measure it again.  

one step at a time......


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## delicagirl (Nov 8, 2016)

mid4did said:


> So what happens if you unplug the yellow box,connect to home ehu and switch the fridge to 240v ? Or has this been done?




that will be my next step   -  i will report back later in the week   -  thank you


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## Robmac (Nov 8, 2016)

harrow said:


> Nothing is straight forward, I would have thought if it said it was 240 volt then it would be. :rolleyes2:



That's puzzling me a bit. Obviously the transformer is connected to something or other, or maybe it has now been bypassed and fridge changed to a 240v.


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## mid4did (Nov 8, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> that will be my next step   -  i will report back later in the week   -  thank you


onwards and upwards :cool1:


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## harrow (Nov 8, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Progress   -     i have now had the solar control panel rewired as per the forum's suggestions....    and also on andy janets recommendation.i have bought one of these
> 
> SUNGOLDPOWER 12V/24V Car Charger DC 5V 6.1A 3 USB Port: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
> 
> ...



I see your new device, and I have a similar one, BUT I guess it is connected to the starter battery not the leisure battery, that would be conventional.
:dog:


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## delicagirl (Nov 8, 2016)

Robmac said:


> That's puzzling me a bit. Obviously the transformer is connected to something or other, or maybe it has now been bypassed and fridge changed to a 240v.



Rob   this is what Andy found in my van  

""The 240v lead comes into the van to a four gang tent output like you hang on the tent pole, this has 13amp plugs that go to the builders transformer which supplies 110v to her fridge and another supply that used to be her water heater in the rear of the van, alongside the internal fuse box which is a work of art is a 240 volt charger unit a bit like a zig unit that we couldn't find out if it worked because we didn't have 240 where we were parked I advised del to connect her 240v at home and check her charge to the batterys."


does this assist you any  ?


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## delicagirl (Nov 8, 2016)

harrow said:


> I see your new device, and I have a similar one, BUT I guess it is connected to the starter battery not the leisure battery, that would be conventional.
> :dog:




my tiny portable device, which is normally stored in the glove compartment, can be plugged into either of the two cigar sockets in my hab unit or into the dashboard cigar socket.   If my van has been wired properly (to connect all four batteries), i am hopeful that i can prove it with this device.   Right now its dark and cold and wet...  i am staying in doors right now...


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## Robmac (Nov 8, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Rob   this is what Andy found in my van
> 
> ""The 240v lead comes into the van to a four gang tent output like you hang on the tent pole, this has 13amp plugs that go to the builders transformer which supplies 110v to her fridge and another supply that used to be her water heater in the rear of the van, alongside the internal fuse box which is a work of art is a 240 volt charger unit a bit like a zig unit that we couldn't find out if it worked because we didn't have 240 where we were parked I advised del to connect her 240v at home and check her charge to the batterys."
> 
> ...



That being the case Collette, sounds like fridge is indeed 110v. Although, at a guess it is ONLY the fridge that is 110v now. 

Andy's seen it so knows far better than me. Good luck with it.


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## harrow (Nov 8, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> my tiny portable device, which is normally stored in the glove compartment, can be plugged into either of the two cigar sockets in my hab unit or into the dashboard cigar socket.   If my van has been wired properly (to connect all four batteries), i am hopeful that i can prove it with this device.   Right now its dark and cold and wet...  i am staying in doors right now...



Yes keep warm its too cold for camping !


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## trevskoda (Nov 8, 2016)

harrow said:


> I see your new device, and I have a similar one, BUT I guess it is connected to the starter battery not the leisure battery, that would be conventional.
> :dog:



Use this putting a red wire to van & service battery ,ebay £8, 291715913311.


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## trevskoda (Nov 8, 2016)

Or these to read volts,you can get ones to read temp to,ebay 231822294961 £1.30


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## Obanboy666 (Nov 8, 2016)

trevskoda said:


> Or these to read volts,you can get ones to read temp to,ebay 231822294961 £1.30



Have 3 of the above, read the same as my multimeter so well worth the money.


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## trevskoda (Nov 8, 2016)

Heres what i fitted to customers van with a rocker so can see charge in both batts £7.31 ebay 371423654693.


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## andyjanet (Nov 8, 2016)

Robmac said:


> That's puzzling me a bit. Obviously the transformer is connected to something or other, or maybe it has now been bypassed and fridge changed to a 240v.


That's possible rob the yellow output wire  disappears round the back of the cupboards and heads towards the fridge, we were in a wild camp location with no 240 to check it out and with Janet and Collette both saying you don't have to look at it now so instead of pulling everything apart I bowed to there persuasion and had another coffee and biscuit&#55357;&#56835;


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## delicagirl (Nov 8, 2016)

andyjanet said:


> That's possible rob the yellow output wire  disappears round the back of the cupboards and heads towards the fridge, we were in a wild camp location with no 240 to check it out and with Janet and Collette both saying you don't have to look at it now so instead of pulling everything apart I bowed to there persuasion and had another *coffee and biscuit*��



Dontcha mean  biscuit*SSSSSS*     ??  :lol-053::lol-053::lol-053:

i know that the fridge works on gas as i had a new igniter fitted.   When the van was on 240v hook up, at home,  the freezer bit went icy, so it works on 240v  -  i have not tested in solely on 110v -  i think that is the next step.

i cant imagine what other appliance could have been/is 110v   - as the defunct hot water heater was a gas water heater.


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## delicagirl (Nov 8, 2016)

andyjanet said:


> That's possible rob the yellow output wire  disappears round the back of the cupboards and heads towards the fridge, we were in a wild camp location with no 240 to check it out and with Janet and Collette both saying you don't have to look at it now so instead of pulling everything apart I bowed to there persuasion and had another coffee and biscuit��



Could it be the cable which goes to the EHU socket at the outside of the back of the van -  which i use to connect to 240v on a camp site or at home?


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## oldish hippy (Nov 8, 2016)

Robmac said:


> That's puzzling me a bit. Obviously the transformer is connected to something or other, or maybe it has now been bypassed and fridge changed to a 240v.



well the only thing left is the battery charger unless the fridge is 110 volt as the hot water heater is not connected


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## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 8, 2016)

Collette you say you can see the 13a plug heads in the 4 way socket bank ? If so remove the one that feeds the 110v transformer. Then connect on mains hook up at home and test the fridge and see if it still works.
Do you have other sockets in the van other than the 4 way 240v ones.

Alf


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## andyjanet (Nov 8, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Could it be the cable which goes to the EHU socket at the outside of the back of the van -  which i use to connect to 240v on a camp site or at home?


The wire that comes from the back of the van goes straight to your 240 v Tent mobile mains unit in your wardrobe, then there is a 13a plug that goes to the transformer and that disappears down behind the fire and back towards the kitchen units and the fridge so I presumed it was a 110 v fridge, your in house battery charger is connected to another 13a plug that plugs into your tent mobile mains unit, 
Collette in a couple of weeks come over for the weekend and we can pull everything apart and label it all up.


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## Canalsman (Nov 8, 2016)

A word of caution ....

I would strongly advise against experimenting with the electrical system if you are not entirely certain what you're doing.

There are two significant risks - electrocution and fire!


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## oldish hippy (Nov 9, 2016)

you can do basic tests without connecting supply  visual inspection
 check fuses and I don't suppose any one is daft enough to put there finger in the socket to see if it is live and modern fuse board have a rcd  protection


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## mistericeman (Nov 9, 2016)

How about unplugging the transformer and then see what doesn't work? ;-)


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> How about unplugging the transformer and then see what doesn't work? ;-)



thats the next plan  ...    but not today


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## mistericeman (Nov 9, 2016)

Hurry up.... the suspense of this thread is killing me lol


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## Wooie1958 (Nov 9, 2016)

Mine are uncomfortable as well    :sad:


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

mistericeman said:


> Hurry up.... the suspense of this thread is killing me lol



oh alright then  ... 



if its not raining when i get back this afternoon  i might put you out of your misery !!!!!:wave:


there is bright sunshine here  today so with my newly rewired controller  i can see if i get anymore input to the batteries than i might have expected before


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

I measured the vans batteries at    12.7v    i used the cigar socket next to the original leisure battery which is connected to the in-van battery charger, 

I connected the van to 240v supply from the house.    I plugged in the Transformer box to the vans internal 240v 3 gang-tent consumer unit. The fridge  240v red light lit up.    The vans internal battery charger light also came on to indicate that is working and charging. 

i remeasured the batteries and the reading was   14.6.v  -   the batteries are fully charged.  (All batteries are now on a proper split relay.)

i removed the transformer plug.    The 12v light on the fridge did not come on.    (However this brings back a distant conversation with the first guy who worked on it - he wondered if the 12v lamp  on the outside of the fridge door was not working.)


if he is right  and it is only a new lamp required  - how would i test that the fridge is working on  12v please ? 


i re measured the batteries after removing the  digital battery measuring device and they were 13.1


i have switched off the 240v  as i dont want to boil the batteries if they are already  14.6.

there....   lots of numbers and whatifs for you brain-boxes to get your teeth into on this fine sunny  day  .....


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## wildman (Nov 9, 2016)

fridge will only work on 12V if the engine is running, it will only maintain the current temp and not actually get any colder. Running on 12v with the engine off would result in a flat battery in about threequarters of an hour. The fridge is, or should be powered off the Engine not the hab battery.


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

Alf said:


> Collette you say you can see the 13a plug heads in the 4 way socket bank ? If so remove the one that feeds the 110v transformer. Then connect on mains hook up at home and test the fridge and see if it still works.
> *Do you have other sockets in the van other than the 4 way 240v ones.*
> 
> Alf




Hi alf  - i did that  -  see my last post  -  i don't have any other 240v plugs in the van other than the 4 gang consumer unit.   In addition  i have 2 cigar sockets.  One is a solo socket  which was in the van originally and is linked to the original leisure batter.   The second is a cigar socket+USB socket which i had installed in ROI  by a reputable firm and it is linked to the 2 new leisure batteries. 

So when i use my laptop i can use either socket depending on where i am sitting in the van.

i also have 2 (i think)  original japanese 110v sockets  which i have taped over so no one can use them   -  not that you could get any of our plugs into them anyways, cos they are the wrong shape for European plugs of any sort.


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## wildman (Nov 9, 2016)

Also bear in mind that because the solar regulator was wired incorrectly for some time the regulator may be knackered and not protecting your battery from overcharging. Keep an eye on it. The best time to measure the voltage is at least one hour after the solar has stopped charging i.e. at night, that allows surface charge to discipate


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

wildman said:


> Also bear in mind that because the solar regulator was wired incorrectly for some time the regulator may be knackered and not protecting your battery from overcharging. Keep an eye on it. The best time to measure the voltage is at least one hour after the solar has stopped charging i.e. at night, that allows surface charge to discipate




i will measure it at tea time....   thanks


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

wildman said:


> fridge will only work on 12V if the engine is running, it will only maintain the current temp and not actually get any colder. Running on 12v with the engine off would result in a flat battery in about threequarters of an hour. The fridge is, or should be powered off the Engine not the hab battery.




Because i am a cautious soul - to be safe    -  should i unplug the 240v EHU cable from the van before switching the engine on   before i switch the fridge from   240 to 12 v   ?


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## colinm (Nov 9, 2016)

As above the 12v should only work whilst engine is running, also if you check batteries voltage whilst the charger is plugged in then you may well not get the true voltage, but be reading the voltage the charger is suppling.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 9, 2016)

Collette the idea was to see if indeed the fridge worked with the transformer unplugged.
So please try again. Connect the mains hook unplug the transformer and turn the fridge on to 240v check to see if this works. If so leave the transformer unplugged.

It seems you have discovered another anomaly the fridge 240v  supply should not be from the transformer ?

the 12v supply should be from the van battery and controlled via the alternator so as only to work whilst the engine running.

To be fair it seems that your van electrical system needs a complete overhaul or even a partial rewire Please tred very careful you need professional advice and a reputable firm.I asked about other sockets  you say yes you have the original 110v ones  these may be able to convert to 240v ones



Alf 





delicagirl said:


> Hi alf  - i did that  -  see my last post  -  i don't have any other 240v plugs in the van other than the 4 gang consumer unit.   In addition  i have 2 cigar sockets.  One is a solo socket  which was in the van originally and is linked to the original leisure batter.   The second is a cigar socket+USB socket which i had installed in ROI  by a reputable firm and it is linked to the 2 new leisure batteries.
> 
> So when i use my laptop i can use either socket depending on where i am sitting in the van.
> 
> i also have 2 (i think)  original japanese 110v sockets  which i have taped over so no one can use them   -  not that you could get any of our plugs into them anyways, cos they are the wrong shape for European plugs of any sort.


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## listerdiesel (Nov 9, 2016)

wildman said:


> fridge will only work on 12V if the engine is running, it will only maintain the current temp and not actually get any colder. Running on 12v with the engine off would result in a flat battery in about threequarters of an hour. The fridge is, or should be powered off the Engine not the hab battery.



Unless the battery is particularly small, and using the 12V consumption of a 3-way fridge at 100watts (8.5 amps approximately) a fully charged 110AH battery, would last for considerably longer than 3/4 of an hour, nearer 5 hours or thereabouts.

Peter


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## wildman (Nov 9, 2016)

the main point is power would come out of the battery faster than the solar panel could put it back. A compressor fridge is no where near as bad as it has a thermostat thus not drawing 8-10amps all the time..


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## wildman (Nov 9, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> Because i am a cautious soul - to be safe    -  should i unplug the 240v EHU cable from the van before switching the engine on   before i switch the fridge from   240 to 12 v   ?


Why bother with 12v at all mains or gas and save the battery for laptop, TV etc.


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## jagmanx (Nov 9, 2016)

*12V  fridge*



wildman said:


> Why bother with 12v at all mains or gas and save the battery for laptop, TV etc.



My fridge only works off 12V if the engine is running.
This seems good to me as the alternator produces cheap power with minimal fuel cost and you can turn the gas off (safety).
Thus as we wild most of the time it is on GAS with refillable LPG fitted also very cheap.
Only use 240V if we are getting it included in a campsite cost (very rare I will not pay say £5 extra for EH.....maybe £2/£3 if it is April or Sept)


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## alwaysared (Nov 9, 2016)

delicagirl;754144 I plugged in the Transformer box to the vans internal 240v 3 gang-tent consumer unit. The fridge  240v red light lit up. [/QUOTE said:
			
		

> Surely this indicates that the fridge is 110v not 240v? Assuming that nothing else was plugged into the 3 gang tent consumer unit.
> Does the light you're referring to actually say 240v or is it just a mains indicator light?
> 
> Regards,
> Del


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

hairydog said:


> All electrical devices have a rating plate that shows the power requirement. Chances are that you can see the one on the fridge if you take the grille off the bottom fridge vent. Even if it is in Japanese, there will be numbers you can read. Take a photo and post it, so people can determine what voltage the fridge should run on,




its too dark to do that now....   but .....   more info has been gathered.....

i phoned Dometics help line  -  and a wonderfully helpful lady found out that   Electrolux RM220 parts are  no longer being available, but that in 1993 my model was described as    95w 240 volt


......


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

jagmanx said:


> My fridge only works off 12V if the engine is running.
> This seems good to me as the alternator produces cheap power with minimal fuel cost and you can turn the gas off (safety).
> Thus *as we wild most of the time it is on GAS with refillable LPG fitted also very cheap*.
> Only use 240V if we are getting it included in a campsite cost (very rare I will not pay say £5 extra for EH.....maybe £2/£3 if it is April or Sept)




This could be a failsafe way of using the fridge i guess.....  as my van has  LPG  - gasit


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## mid4did (Nov 9, 2016)

Just did a quick search for the manual .It does confirm 240v and the fact a plate should be indide the fridge.


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

mid4did said:


> Just did a quick search for the manual .It does confirm 240v and the fact a plate should be indide the fridge.View attachment 48220




thanks   this says the data plate is inside the fridge...  i will look tomorrow in the daylight


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## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 9, 2016)

Just to complicate matters it will not be the first time I have seen a 240v isolating transformer used in a motorcaravan or caravan, so it may not be a 110v transformer.

Still awaiting a reply does the fridge work with the  yellow transformer unplugged.
I'd does it freeze and get cold not just light up.


Has this vehicle ever had an electrical test or a safety certificate issued.

Alf


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## Deleted member 5816 (Nov 9, 2016)

It only needs a 110v heating element to convert to a 110v model and these were available as they fitted various other models in the range.
Only inspection would tell or the test as previously requested

Alf






delicagirl said:


> its too dark to do that now....   but .....   more info has been gathered.....
> 
> i phoned Dometics help line  -  and a wonderfully helpful lady found out that   Electrolux RM220 parts are  no longer being available, but that in 1993 my model was described as    95w 240 volt
> 
> ...


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## delicagirl (Nov 9, 2016)

Alf said:


> Just to complicate matters it will not be the first time I have seen a 240v isolating transformer used in a motorcaravan or caravan, so it may not be a 110v transformer.
> 
> Still awaiting a reply *does the fridge work with the  yellow transformer unplugged.
> I'd does it freeze and get cold not just light up.
> ...



""does the fridge work with the  yellow transformer unplugged.   I'd does it freeze and get cold not just light up.   ""

alf i have not tried it yet  -  bit of a busy day today 


the original habitation report was not worth the paper it was written on Alf, and   i have yet to find an electrician who wants to advise on this vans electrics  !!!!!    They just laugh and say   WOW - "thats all beyond me".  The one guy who seemed to have more idea than anyone locally has now retired. 

I have had the van 2.25 years  now  - and i always check appliances' plugs and the sockets to make sure they are not getting unduly warm when i use anything. 

if the current configuration is safe then i wont re-wire - it could cost a great deal.    

i have an RCD trip switch on the  new 4 gang 240v consumer unit,  i have a trip switch on the original leisure battery area, and i have smoke alarms.


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## Bart (Nov 9, 2016)

Wow just finished reading all this thread , a few things I will share  that I have noticed  from wilding using my set up. ( I got these figures from my battery monitor )
When running my acer laptop from my inverter  it uses 9 amps per hour
Yet when running my laptop from the 12v supply using a cigarette lighter charger it was using 6 amps per hour
Make sure your inverter  is turned off and isolated as mines uses just over 1 amp per. Hour. When nothing is being used yet the power is still running to the inverter. Over 24hrs that would be a waste of 24 amps in  my case.
Also make sure all lights are LEDs , I can run all my LEDs ( 12+ ) for the same power as it took to run one or two of my old halogen lights.


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## yeoblade (Nov 12, 2016)

wildman said:


> *fridge will only work on 12V if the engine is running*, it will only maintain the current temp and not actually get any colder. Running on 12v with the engine off would result in a flat battery in about threequarters of an hour. The fridge is, or should be powered off the Engine not the hab battery.


Maybe, but not the case with a friend of mine who came round with a flat battery, because it could be turned on any time on 12v. Van was a jap import, probably bought from the sams place as Dels


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## delicagirl (Jan 24, 2017)

hello everyone   -  i thought i would give you all an update on the electrics saga ....  last december  i just had to have a break from it all it was driving me mad.

My recent thread about batteries has also provided me with a lot more information from you guys.

i have finally got the 240v consumer unit in the van to work - thanks to a testing device which andyjanet made for me i was able to diagnose the problem was an intermittent fault in the 2 blue push-in sockets on the 240v EHU cable which i have now had rewired.  The 240v light on the fridge comes on and i can now also use a table lamp in all of the 240 volt sockets.   The light on the inhouse original leisure battery also now comes on when i am connected to 240v.  So alf, maybe when i get round  to it i will now be able to test the fridge on 110v  - when i run the engine and switch to 110v  the fridge external  light comes on  -   so that is a new positive discovery. 

during the xmas holidays i discovered that all 4 batteries in the van are different makes and different sizes -  just shows you what amateur bodgers there are out there !!!!!    so in spite of them all being less than 3 years old i am going to bite the bullet and replace them all with top quality 110s. 

i have also found the booklet for the original solar controller -  and for the inboard battery charger....  so lots of good genuine information has been acquired for the next lucky individual to work on my delivan......


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## harrow (Jan 24, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> hello everyone   -  i thought i would give you all an update on the electrics saga ....  last december  i just had to have a break from it all it was driving me mad.
> 
> My recent thread about batteries has also provided me with a lot more information from you guys.
> 
> ...


Good to hear your sorted out.
I would not worry about the batteries being different, more about is each one tested and working correctly.
I started in telecoms in 1973 and my job was to fix faults, starting with Strowger exchanges, which were all electromechanical and before I packed up work every thing was going IP internet protocol.
Don't worry about different batteries, yes get them tested but as long as they are good use them.
BT had a lot of trouble with batteries they bought from ALL the big names, and a lot of the manufacturers had problems.


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## john1974 (Jan 25, 2017)

blimey  just read all 25 pages! glad you are making progress, Collette

John


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## delicagirl (Feb 7, 2017)

Bart said:


> Wow just finished reading all this thread , a few things I will share  that I have noticed  from wilding using my set up. ( I got these figures from my battery monitor )
> When running my acer laptop from *my inverter  it uses 9 amps per hour*
> Yet when running my laptop from the *12v supply using a cigarette lighter charger it was using 6 amps per hour*
> *Make sure your inverter  is turned off and isolated as mines uses just over 1 amp per. Hour.* When nothing is being used yet the power is still running to the inverter. Over 24hrs that would be a waste of 24 amps in  my case.
> Also make sure all lights are LEDs , I can run all my LEDs ( 12+ ) for the same power as it took to run one or two of my old halogen lights.



Another update..... 

Thanks these stats are very useful.  i am seriously considering getting rid of my inverter - i have never used it. It is never switched on, but is still attached to the batteries. 

i have now found a great local auto electrician who also works on 4WD vehicles/campers  and who is very knowledgeable indeed.  He's looked at the van and says he can sort out electrics....   and says "lets keep it simple"  - i like that.

He came today and tested a lot of my electrics -  laptop, laptop charger, phone charger, habitation lights.  With my laptop plugged into one of my 12v cigar sockets it was pulling 7 amps.  He then changed the charging cable (i have a spare) and that one drew 5.9 amps.   The new strip lights and spotlights were also very low in ampages also, so they don't need changing.   

How many hours could i run the lamptop on 7 amps and how many hours on 5.9 amps please ? 

So, i like him, and he is taking it step at a time.  i am not replacing any batteries just yet.

He is going to replace the "new Irish-fitted"  12v laptop/USB socket as it is poor quality, (it is nowhere near as good as the original 12v socket in my van).  He is also going to replace my charging cable for my laptop with a better quality one.   Apparently the end of the cable which plugged into the socket had only one stainless steel spring clip, (instead of 2 which gives a tighter fit) and so the metallic connection inside the socket was poor and occasionally intermittent.  This was probably why it had got quite hot more than once.   He will also tidy up and strengthen the connections between all three leisure batteries.  

Then i will take it out for a few days and write down all the stats for driving hours/computer writing hours/battery readings  etc and see how i get on.  He thinks it is possible that the laptop  (being quite old) simply pulls too much power.

So i am more optimistic than i have been for ages....   just thought i might update you all  - so that someone else might have an  Ah-AH  moment for their problems. 

More later.......


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## Bart (Feb 8, 2017)

The figures above for my laptop are from my acer laptop which is quite old and the battery knackered in it so that means it will be using all 7 amps constantly  , where as if my battery was good it would charge the battery after say an hour , then i would be able to disconnect the mains and run on the battery for a period of time until the battery runs done.
i have since bought a new "Good Quality battery" so i will have to do some tests and see if what i just said is right lol


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## delicagirl (Feb 8, 2017)

Bart said:


> The figures above for my laptop are from my acer laptop which is quite old and the battery knackered in it so that means it will be using all 7 amps constantly  , where as if my battery was good it would charge the battery after say an hour , then i would be able to disconnect the mains and run on the battery for a period of time until the battery runs done.
> i have since bought a new "Good Quality battery" so i will have to do some tests and see if what i just said is right lol



thanks  bart i also have just bought a new laptop battery  - i am gonna test it out shortly to see how long it lasts with constant typing......


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