# 30 or so campervans parked up by a cemetery in bristol



## shawbags (Sep 27, 2017)

I've read that a lot of motorhome/campervans/caravans are parked up in one street and there has been clashes with the locals , they say they have no choice as they have been priced out of the house market . My opinion is that people are looking for alternatives ways to house themselves as I agree that houses are totally out of reach for many people mostly the younger generation, van dwelling has become a very big thing in other countries because of low wages and high cost of living , I myself if younger would do the same as it is impossible for a single average working class person to afford to buy or rent a house , if someone could add a link to this post I would be very greatful , cheers


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## yorkslass (Sep 27, 2017)

Can't do links but you'll find it if you Google Bristol news, Easton.


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## colinm (Sep 27, 2017)

People living in vans on streets of Easton clash with neighbours at heated meeting - Bristol Post


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## trevskoda (Sep 27, 2017)

In this day and age quick kit build homes as bed sits are the way forward with a gov cap on the price,or you rent of gov and at end of a fixed term wish to give it up a proportion of the rental should be given back if home is in good repair,this could be linked to a deposit on a new home or the one you are in,but then again thats to simple for any well educated nitwit in gov to put forward.:idea-007:


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## shawbags (Sep 27, 2017)

colinmd said:


> People living in vans on streets of Easton clash with neighbours at heated meeting - Bristol Post



Cheers


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## shawbags (Sep 27, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> In this day and age quick kit build homes as bed sits are the way forward with a gov cap on the price,or you rent of gov and at end of a fixed term wish to give it up a proportion of the rental should be given back if home is in good repair,this could be linked to a deposit on a new home or the one you are in,but then again thats to simple for any well educated nitwit in gov to put forward.:idea-007:



No matter what they come up with it always goes tits up , the tiny home movement have the right idea , I think the government should designate land for people to put these homes on or allow people to put these tiny homes on their own land , people should be allowed to use bottled gas and solar so they don't have to join the national grid but it will never be allowed because the fat cats won't make anything off people , again this is too simple and easy to do


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## malagaoth (Sep 27, 2017)

could any one who is complaining about PSPO look at the photograph on the above link and ask themselves if they would link to live in that street?
where is the black and grey waste going for one thing.





> I think the government should designate land for people to put these homes on or allow people to put these tiny homes on their own land.



  - they HAVE they are called "caravan sites" !
If you are giving out land could I have a piece too?

the people arent "wild camping" at least not in the way most of us on this board wild camp those M/homes are a semi permanant fixture by the look of them they havent moved for weeks or months.

It is one thing to park up for a night and move one (causing inconvenience to no one in the process) it is another to park up for weeks  making a street look like a refugee camp.

this from the link - 
"Austin, a vandweller, said: “*We would happily rent toilets, we’d rent bins*, we’d rent yards.”"

so why cant I see any portaloos in the picture?
Why no  industrial bins?
both would be available (at a cost ) if they wanted them

If they want to rent "yards" Im sure that some site owner would rent them a pitch.

(I was at a CL near Oxford once and nearly every one there was a weekly resident travelling home - by train- at weekends)



BTW I notice that the news paper is dated 27 September and the 'residents' have been given until 8 October to leave


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## jeanette (Sep 27, 2017)

I have just read that article apparently it's because they can't afford to get on the housing market! They are parked up outside of local residents homes and using their garden for toilets apparently that's what I read!


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## malagaoth (Sep 28, 2017)

> have just read that article apparently it's because they can't afford to get on the housing market! They are parked up outside of local residents homes and using their garden for toilets apparently that's what I read




well thats pretty much it, do you think that they should be allowed to stay?

Do you draw a distinction between these people and people who want to park up on Brighton sea front for days/weeks on end? (I dont)


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## harrow (Sep 28, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> In this day and age quick kit build homes as bed sits are the way forward with a gov cap on the price,or you rent of gov and at end of a fixed term wish to give it up a proportion of the rental should be given back if home is in good repair,this could be linked to a deposit on a new home or the one you are in,but then again thats to simple for any well educated nitwit in gov to put forward.:idea-007:


In this day and age,

no one should have to sleep on the streets or have to sleep in a van people if they don't want to.

There should be some sort of basic accommodation available.

:idea-007::idea-007::idea-007:


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## Auld Pharrrt (Sep 28, 2017)

harrow said:


> In this day and age,
> 
> no one should have to sleep on the streets or have to sleep in a van people if they don't want to.
> 
> ...



There is, but it is all full with immigrants (not that I have anything against them,) single parents, druggies and generally folks who know how to use the system to their advantage, but, people like ourselves who are honest, hard working and do our best to take care of ourselves and our families are left without, or paying through the nose.


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## n brown (Sep 28, 2017)

they're not parked outside people's houses, there's no houses down that end, and as for crapping in people's gardens, typical daily mail , there's a graveyard one side and a big area of scrub on the other,why would they go out of their way to do it in a garden. maybe it's because the rents are so horrendously out of reach that these 'vandwellers', some of whom are working, need to be demonised to prevent anyone feeling sympathetic.
as i said, to rent a single room in the area can be as much as £750 a month, so 6 weeks rent deposit plus a month's rent plus agency fees of 2 or 3 hundred, they haven't got it
as for suggesting they go on a campsite, i found that amusing to read on a ''Wildcamping'' forum 
be interesting to see what the Mail has to say about the hundreds of people living in tents around the city


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## n brown (Sep 28, 2017)

malagaoth said:


> well thats pretty much it, do you think that they should be allowed to stay?
> 
> Do you draw a distinction between these people and people who want to park up on Brighton sea front for days/weeks on end? (I dont)


i haven't seen these folk, are they also working folk of the area who aren't paid enough to afford the rents in the town and are forced to live with their families on the street ? poor buggers


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## n brown (Sep 28, 2017)

while i'm on the subject
i know this bit of dead end road very well,my son had a house here .it's been a very popular spot for drug deals to go down ,and a well known spot for prostitutes to take their clients, i would be reluctant to walk through it at night
these vandwellers have stopped these activities and the area is now safe for people to pass through


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## chrismilo (Sep 28, 2017)

Sign of the times I'm afraid will only get worse the higher immigration the less houses for British not racist just fact
Most of the one's I've spoken to here in Brighton don't want to live in a van but have no choice you are not considered to be sleeping rough so get no help from homeless organizations or council 
There are a few full timers that choose to live in vans I can see why there's nothing better to go to bed with peace and quiet and wake up to a lovely view and no or less pollution I have fulltimed alot in the 70's and 80's through choice 
Maybe we should all go park in the Mall or Downing street !


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## chrismilo (Sep 28, 2017)

Sign of the times I'm afraid will only get worse the higher immigration the less houses for British not racist just fact
Most of the one's I've spoken to here in Brighton don't want to live in a van but have no choice you are not considered to be sleeping rough so get no help from homeless organizations or council 
There are a few full timers that choose to live in vans I can see why there's nothing better to go to bed with peace and quiet and wake up to a lovely view and no or less pollution I have fulltimed alot in the 70's and 80's through choice 
Maybe we should all go park in the Mall or Downing street !:camper:
:shag:  the PSPO'S


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2017)

malagaoth said:


> could any one who is complaining about PSPO look at the photograph on the above link and ask themselves if they would link to live in that street?
> where is the black and grey waste going for one thing.
> 
> 
> ...



The problem is law regarding caravans and m/homes used all year round,requlations dont allow it,its about time some of these regs were lightened up for so called problems like this.
Its time folk had some say in the way things are done rather than the heavy hand of regs punishing them.


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2017)

jeanette said:


> I have just read that article apparently it's because they can't afford to get on the housing market! They are parked up outside of local residents homes and using their garden for toilets apparently that's what I read!



And i thought sweet pea was a plant.


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## maureenandtom (Sep 28, 2017)

A couple of comments from the article:

_Although there were differing opinions amongst residents, both sides eventually rounded on the council and said inaction on its part had caused problems on both sides. _

_A resident called Faith, who has lived in the area for 26 years, said: “People are finding a solution to a massive housing problem we have locally. These are people who are making the best of a very difficult situation.”

*One resident demanded to know why council-owned sites couldn’t be opened up to give the van dwellers somewhere to stay, to which Ms Pickersgill replied: “I’m going to be completely honest; I don’t know.”*
_

OK, three.  Got carried away.

It does look bad and I'd be wanting away from there.   But, in truth, somewhere round there will be some patch of waste ground, disused industrial perhsps, but somewhere out of sight and out of mind.  This sort of solution rarely occurs to councils.


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## malagaoth (Sep 28, 2017)

> N Brown said -
> "they're not parked outside people's houses, there's no houses down that end"
> 
> and then
> ...



So Mr(s) Brown which is it?

either there are houses there or there arent!
It doesnt really matter if these people are parked directly outside your door it is a street in a residential area.
would you want them in your street?  
do you think their presence would tend to improve or diminish your environment?


I cant build a house where I choose - even if I own the land - why should people in motorhomes and caravans be allowed to LIVE (not merely stop over for a night) on land they dont even own?  this is not wild camping.



> as for suggesting they go on a campsite, i found that amusing to read on a ''Wildcamping'' forum



so in your opinion these people are simply wild camping?
its little wonder that some councils dont want any motorhome users in their districts!





> The problem is law regarding caravans and m/homes used all year round,requlations dont allow it,its about time some of these regs were lightened up for so called problems like this


.

Lots of camp sites are open 365 days of the year and although ( technically) staying on a pitch more than 28 days isnt allowed if the site owner is happy then Im pretty sure that  nothing will be done and anyway the entire point of a motorhome or caravan is that it is mobile so there is nothing to stop you moving from one pitch (or even one site) to another every month - much like many barge owners have to





> Its time folk had some say in the way things are done



I agree  - and the people in the area dont want them!




> Most of the one's I've spoken to here in Brighton don't want to live in a van but have no choice



But they do have a choice when it comes to where to park!


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## n brown (Sep 28, 2017)

i'm sure you're right


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

This government is filling this country with immigrants and we don't have room for them   They are filling our hospitals, houses and a lot of them are claiming benefits, e.g. Two doors away from me 7 kids and their having another , as soon as she's had one a month or two she's pregnant again , he has another partner in the next street and she has kids ,  What the hell is going on in our yes our country?! , 6 houses were refurbished and 5 were filled with foreigners some can't even speak English , whilst this is happening there are young British families who are Bournemouth and bred here can't get a home ? Why ???? , because of the influx of foreigners that's why , to ad to it the local orthorities don't build enough social housing , the wages in this country are diabolical and the cost of living is getting out of hand , it is a no win situation, not a lot of money then live in a van , park it anywhere and you are the scurge of society , sleep in a doorway you get moved on , beg and you can get arrested so what do you do ???? , this government needs to be thrown out ! , we need to look after ourselves before others , sort the housing out , stop poverty , stop child abuse , sort out our health care ( my mom is in hospital she's elderly and the care she is getting is disgusting and we are having to fight for her ) , house the homeless , look after our sick and elderly, I am speaking the truth so anyone wants to call me racist then carry on , I grew up with all nationalities most my friends are black , half Arab , Chinese and they agree with what I say .


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## alcam (Sep 28, 2017)

n brown said:


> while i'm on the subject
> i know this bit of dead end road very well,my son had a house here .it's been a very popular spot for drug deals to go down ,and a well known spot for prostitutes to take their clients, i would be reluctant to walk through it at night
> these vandwellers have stopped these activities and the area is now safe for people to pass through



Should be listed on the POIs


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## runnach (Sep 28, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> Not sure how you propose to deal with the problem ?
> Most people in most areas don't want you in your motorhome anymore than they want these people
> Maybe a lot of them are actually really nice people who have fallen on hard times or have mental health issues.



I agree you posted a few days back, people see a van ,sheckles go up they aren't interested in distinguishing between a "traveller" or recreational motorhomer all they see is a van. First thing we need to do is get our heads out of our backsides and see that.

I don't know the answer to the problem other than I know there is no magic wand I also know demonising a group is not really helpful. One conclusion I have reached in life is authority needs/enjoys us squabbling it distracts from their agenda...keeps them in control. TV advertising, newspapers, religion ,politicians every one telling you what to do , it is how they keep control. 

We have a society that makes money on debt, 3/5 self employed people have twice the debt of employed according to figures ( itvs county court enforcement) financial stability one of the biggest concerns of under 35s

I cooked for homeless at Christmas probably again this year, sat with them and the stereotypical picture drugged up alcoholics is patently not true. What I also uncovered was the biggest benefactor was a group called "Muslims for humanity" organising food banks for those in need, It doesn't sell newspapers so goes unreported, It doesn't fit the agenda.

Mental Health is in tatters, 18 weeks to see a psychiatrist if you can gain access to services . 1 in 3 adults suffering from mental illness, grossly underfunded ,prejudiced by the benefit system that cant be right ? ( I speak as a patient )

The sad part in all this is there seems no constructive solutions, bit of talk but no doers ! so the spiral continues.

You are always going to get the shirkers and wasters and fly be nights with any system ...but at present we aren't helping anyone,,a big pool of people  the most of whom given opportunity to shine will do , contribute to society ...it is crazy 

Channa


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## GreggBear (Sep 28, 2017)

n brown said:


> while i'm on the subject
> i know this bit of dead end road very well,my son had a house here .it's been a very popular spot for drug deals to go down ,and a well known spot for prostitutes to take their clients, i would be reluctant to walk through it at night
> these vandwellers have stopped these activities and the area is now safe for people to pass through



Thank Christ finally the voice of reason! These people may not be to every body's taste, but they can't be all bad. At last a positive note, no drugs and prostitutes gotta be a plus for the residents. Obviously these people just want to live in denialville and cannot be cool about anything that they don't want. End of the day we all gotta lay our heads somewhere. If there's a big tract of scrub land adjacent to them, why can't that be opened up to the van folk? Suppose that wouldn't be acceptable to these residents either? Good wishes to the vannies, don't suppose they're all perfect, but then, who is? Good vibes to you all out there in wild camping land from your mate GreggBear:wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave::wave:


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

Further to my last post anyone moving to this country should be put at the back of the list for everything in this country unless they can afford to pay their way , they should not get social housing , free health care or benefits, the influx of immigrants is just one of the many problems with the way this country is run . A lot of people have no choice but to live in vans and campervans so good luck to them , it is a shame that residents in the street are being upset by what's going on so they should keep banging the council door until they sort it out fairly for everyone .


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## GreggBear (Sep 28, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> The problem is law regarding caravans and m/homes used all year round,requlations dont allow it,its about time some of these regs were lightened up for so called problems like this.
> Its time folk had some say in the way things are done rather than the heavy hand of regs punishing them.



Couldn't agree more buddy. Think we need to look at some of our dated legislation, and ask ourselves, why its in place, and just what part of our society would obviously melt down and fall to pieces if the rules were slackened off. What happened to our green and pleasant land being there for the use of all? What about the diggers of old who had to battle the Gentry for a chance to cultivate food on common land, just to stop their families starving? How did we get so divided and f****d up and have such little regard for those in need of anything? The land wasn't owned when it came into being, how core authority has hijacked what was once there for all, and now sanctions what goes? Just how I feel, a bit disheartened with material trappings just now, but high on life and eager to spread my wings. Peace.


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## runnach (Sep 28, 2017)

GreggBear said:


> Couldn't agree more buddy. Think we need to look at some of our dated legislation, and ask ourselves, why its in place, and just what part of our society would obviously melt down and fall to pieces if the rules were slackened off. What happened to our green and pleasant land being there for the use of all? What about the diggers of old who had to battle the Gentry for a chance to cultivate food on common land, just to stop their families starving? How did we get so divided and f****d up and have such little regard for those in need of anything? The land wasn't owned when it came into being, how core authority has hijacked what was once there for all, and now sanctions what goes? Just how I feel, a bit disheartened with material trappings just now, but high on life and eager to spread my wings. Peace.



My post 25 gives my view on that........control and greed nothing new, I have a German Short Haired Pointer, extremely effective in flushing out ducks, so good at his job at one stage punishable by death me and the dog did I mention control keeping the peasants in their place ?

Like I say been like it for years 

Channa


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2017)

shawbags said:


> This government is filling this country with immigrants and we don't have room for them   They are filling our hospitals, houses and a lot of them are claiming benefits, e.g. Two doors away from me 7 kids and their having another , as soon as she's had one a month or two she's pregnant again , he has another partner in the next street and she has kids ,  What the hell is going on in our yes our country?! , 6 houses were refurbished and 5 were filled with foreigners some can't even speak English , whilst this is happening there are young British families who are Bournemouth and bred here can't get a home ? Why ???? , because of the influx of foreigners that's why , to ad to it the local orthorities don't build enough social housing , the wages in this country are diabolical and the cost of living is getting out of hand , it is a no win situation, not a lot of money then live in a van , park it anywhere and you are the scurge of society , sleep in a doorway you get moved on , beg and you can get arrested so what do you do ???? , this government needs to be thrown out ! , we need to look after ourselves before others , sort the housing out , stop poverty , stop child abuse , sort out our health care ( my mom is in hospital she's elderly and the care she is getting is disgusting and we are having to fight for her ) , house the homeless , look after our sick and elderly, I am speaking the truth so anyone wants to call me racist then carry on , I grew up with all nationalities most my friends are black , half Arab , Chinese and they agree with what I say .



I agree with much of what you say,but wages are higher compared to where ever these poor sods come from otherwise they would not be so hell bent on landing on our shores,mind you they do come for the free hand outs which i strongly think should be stopped.
I do think housing prices are way to high on mainland,thats because wealthy bankers etc have been controling all of this, prices should be capped by gov never mind what part of the country there built,once this happens you will see the rich investers giving this gold rush a by ball,slap em up for what happened in 2008.


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2017)

channa said:


> My post 25 gives my view on that........control and greed nothing new, I have a German Short Haired Pointer, extremely effective in flushing out ducks, so good at his job at one stage punishable by death me and the dog did I mention control keeping the peasants in their place ?
> 
> Like I say been like it for years
> 
> Channa



The gentry round here prefer to keep there phesants in there place rather than the peasants stealing them.:lol-053: sorry channa just had to have a larf to lighten things up a bit.


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## alcam (Sep 28, 2017)

shawbags said:


> Further to my last post anyone moving to this country should be put at the back of the list for everything in this country unless they can afford to pay their way , they should not get social housing , free health care or benefits, the influx of immigrants is just one of the many problems with the way this country is run . A lot of people have no choice but to live in vans and campervans so good luck to them , it is a shame that residents in the street are being upset by what's going on so they should keep banging the council door until they sort it out fairly for everyone .



Think blaming immigrants is a cop out . 
I employed many immigrants , 95% [conservatively] were extremely hard working , lived in private rented accomodation , were valuable members of society . I didn't choose to employ immigrants [sorry to keep using that word , it does have unpleasant connotations] , I chose the hardest workers .
I appreciate the above is hardly a scientific survey but I would suggest it is more accurate than , for example , the Daily Mail


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## Debroos (Sep 28, 2017)

Auld Pharrrt said:


> There is, but it is all full with immigrants (not that I have anything against them,) single parents, druggies and generally folks who know how to use the system to their advantage, but, people like ourselves who are honest, hard working and do our best to take care of ourselves and our families are left without, or paying through the nose.



That's because there isn't enough housing!
We all deserve decent housing whether local, immigrant, druggy or doolally...
It's rather unfair to blame it on the vulnerable just because they also need housing....


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

There is nothing wrong with using the word immigrants lol , don't be made feel like you are doing something wrong by saying it , as part of my one post said if they pay their way then that's ok , I've worked with polish who worked very hard but their intention was to save hard here and buy a house in their country cash , it's the powers that be who are at fault , if Spain offers me a house near a beautiful beach and money to live on should I say no lol , we the people of this country are being ripped of ! , they may as well kick our doors in and take our belongings from right under our noses as it would be hardly any different to what they are doing with this austerity if a f@&king joke , this is happening all around the world , as I said the tiny house movement in becoming massive in the USA and it's started up here , living in vans mostly . My son has a good job , he put a big deposit down on his house and his friend is a mortgage advisor and got him a very low interest rate , he pays , on a bellow average amount , £800 a month , he is one off the lucky Ines because as I said he has a good job , how many young ones can afford that ? Not many , the powers that be have allowed it to get to the stage where poverty has got worse and it is a struggle to get by .


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

I watched a video a while back one of many about alternative living , there is a site down south somewhere and people live in there in traditional gypsey caravans and other small dwellings , it was a beautiful place with lovely trees , shrubs and flowers around the individual plots but no real borders , it was like a fantasy world that fairy tale type look , they don't bother anyone , it was well kept , I was green as in save the planet type green and it was wonderful, u few more places like that with their attitude would make the world a better place  peace


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## malagaoth (Sep 28, 2017)

> But, in truth, somewhere round there will be some patch of waste ground, disused industrial perhsps, but somewhere out of sight and out of mind. This sort of solution rarely occurs to councils.



that is simply unrealistic.

IF the council provided somewhere for them to park they must (by law) provide facilities  - water, toilets waste disposal  all of which come at a cost, who pays? the council tax payer!

One such site, 'St Anthony's Park' Avonmouth, near Bristol cost the council tax payers over £400 000 in 1999 and was hardly been used when in 2006 it had to be closed when it was basically wrecked by its residents !

St Anthony's had 19 toilets and 20 water points and could probably be brought back into service but why should the council tax payers of Bristol have to foot the bill AGAIN?

It would be interesting to know how many of the 'residents' of Easton are actually in employemnt and how many whether in employment or not could avail of housing benefit to defray the excessive cost of housing.

its interesting though that "GreggBear" states that none of these 'residents' of Easton are prostitutes or involved in drugs - I wonder where he gets that from?  (His ideas on Winstanley (the Diggers) are a little wide of the mark also!)


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## alcam (Sep 28, 2017)

shawbags said:


> There is nothing wrong with using the word immigrants lol , don't be made feel like you are doing something wrong by saying it , as part of my one post said if they pay their way then that's ok , I've worked with polish who worked very hard but their intention was to save hard here and buy a house in their country cash , it's the powers that be who are at fault , if Spain offers me a house near a beautiful beach and money to live on should I say no lol , we the people of this country are being ripped of ! , they may as well kick our doors in and take our belongings from right under our noses as it would be hardly any different to what they are doing with this austerity if a f@&king joke , this is happening all around the world , as I said the tiny house movement in becoming massive in the USA and it's started up here , living in vans mostly . My son has a good job , he put a big deposit down on his house and his friend is a mortgage advisor and got him a very low interest rate , he pays , on a bellow average amount , £800 a month , he is one off the lucky Ines because as I said he has a good job , how many young ones can afford that ? Not many , the powers that be have allowed it to get to the stage where poverty has got worse and it is a struggle to get by .



Unfortunately , as I said , it can have unpleasant connotations . Many people use it as an insult .
Lots of immigrant [mostly Polish] workers that I knew have settled here permanently .


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

It is only looked on as a bad word by the people who want to throw the word racist about , things like golly wog , bar bar black sheep and the likes have become thought of as bad but it's pathetic , we should not be frightened to use words that have been used for hundreds of years just because it may upset the minority's, things like the N word I would say is a word you shouldn't use yet in other languages it's used as a colour and there is nothing wrong with it, I will always voice my opinion regardless of what people think but I would not directly insulting someone purposely, I know someone who was married to a man from , let's say another religion, and she was with him for 17 years , she said the words they use for us are a lot worse than anything we could say to them they hate us with a vengeance and truly believe that this country will soon be there's , I will say no more .


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

The fact is we should look after our own first and foremost


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

Back to why I started this post , what do you think could be done to solve the problem, something has to be done about it rather than just give them notice and move them on to somewhere else


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## yorkieowl (Sep 28, 2017)

A lot of the housing shortage imo was caused with the councils selling off council houses at ridiculously low prices (and just because people had chosen to rent their home from them, the longer rented the cheaper the property), what a mad idea that was.  They had a good amount of housing stock, and with the rents collected they could have reinvested in building more affordable housing (lets face it some private landlords have quite a number of houses and must be making a reasonable profit from it, as well as adding to their portfolios), yet councils choose not to. Its a bit like care homes, all our local council run ones have closed as 'they cannot afford to run them', yet private care homes seem to manage, and have had to take up the slack. Complete madness, and the loser?  Who else but the man on the street.   Rant over.


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## delicagirl (Sep 28, 2017)

all the income accrued from the sale of council houses did not go to the local council but to westminster....


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

yorkieowl said:


> A lot of the housing shortage imo was caused with the councils selling off council houses at ridiculously low prices (and just because people had chosen to rent their home from them, the longer rented the cheaper the property), what a mad idea that was.  They had a good amount of housing stock, and with the rents collected they could have reinvested in building more affordable housing (lets face it some private landlords have quite a number of houses and must be making a reasonable profit from it, as well as adding to their portfolios), yet councils choose not to. Its a bit like care homes, all our local council run ones have closed as 'they cannot afford to run them', yet private care homes seem to manage, and have had to take up the slack. Complete madness, and the loser?  Who else but the man on the street.   Rant over.


I'm looking for a suitable care home for my mum at the moment, most of them are delapedated , drab sorry places , dirty and understaffed , in one I witnessed a carer bending an old ladies fingers back to gain control of her , she had dimencia , sorry not best at spelling , and I reported it straight away , people who own these homes make money because they are way below standard and they get away with it , it's a disgrace how our elderly are being treated that is unless you have a £1000 a week or more to pay for your care , the ones I looked at were afmround £600 a week , my mom and dad worked all their lives , bought their own house , paid their way and this is how my mom is being treated , we are in a constant battle just to get theNHS to do their job !


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> all the income accrued from the sale of council houses did not go to the local council but to westminster....



So what was it spent on ? Cus it definitely didn't go back into housing stock


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## alcam (Sep 28, 2017)

shawbags said:


> It is only looked on as a bad word by the people who want to throw the word racist about , things like golly wog , bar bar black sheep and the likes have become thought of as bad but it's pathetic , we should not be frightened to use words that have been used for hundreds of years just because it may upset the minority's, things like the N word I would say is a word you shouldn't use yet in other languages it's used as a colour and there is nothing wrong with it, I will always voice my opinion regardless of what people think but I would not directly insulting someone purposely, I know someone who was married to a man from , let's say another religion, and she was with him for 17 years , she said the words they use for us are a lot worse than anything we could say to them they hate us with a vengeance and truly believe that this country will soon be there's , I will say no more .



No , what I said was it is used as an insult . All the other words you have suggested , when used as insults , are obviously racist


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## yorkieowl (Sep 28, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> all the income accrued from the sale of council houses did not go to the local council but to westminster....



I know crazy.

I would be curious to know how many of the mh'ers parked up are in work and the amount earned, and how many are living aboard,  to judge whether it is really choice or necessity that they are parked up, having said that they may be trying to save on extortionate rent to save for a deposit.  Problem is, easiest way is get them moved on, its someone elses problem then, and there is not enough of them to get things done about it. Unfortunately I've no answers. Someone who feels passionate about it needs to try and start a petition on change.org.  

Someone mentioned about  small 'houses', thing is there is such a housing shortage how long before they were charging silly rents for these, after all they should only be a short term solution, bit like the cheap prefabs, used for way over their intended lifespan.


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

Never heard the word racist as an insult


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

A lot of people build there own tiny homes mostly on wheels , sites should be found and turned into small housing estates and rent should be capped , someone said use caravan sites  They would work out more expensive than property rent  , maybe unused farm land or waist land unused , not green belt Land that some idiots are trying to build on


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> It didn't all go back to Westminster only half did but local authorities were not allowed to spend it until they had repaid there debts .
> As most councils don't seem to be able to control their spending they are probably still paying the debts to this day?



I've witnessed the waist my local council cause , I spoke to the local conservative councillor who was high up in the council and he said " I can't be everywhere watching everyone at once " and that was the end of it , I told him that a full pack of building bricks , apart from one layer , was thrown away he was not interested , I seen large amounts of timber thrown away off jobs that could be used its madness , so I started collecting it up , I can use it for something rather than it be burnt


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## yorkieowl (Sep 28, 2017)

shawbags said:


> I'm looking for a suitable care home for my mum at the moment, most of them are delapedated , drab sorry places , dirty and understaffed , in one I witnessed a carer bending an old ladies fingers back to gain control of her , she had dimencia , sorry not best at spelling , and I reported it straight away , people who own these homes make money because they are way below standard and they get away with it , it's a disgrace how our elderly are being treated that is unless you have a £1000 a week or more to pay for your care , the ones I looked at were afmround £600 a week , my mom and dad worked all their lives , bought their own house , paid their way and this is how my mom is being treated , we are in a constant battle just to get theNHS to do their job !



We have an aunt in a dementia care home, costs roughly £550/600 pw, most of her savings now gone, plus most of the money raised from the sale of her house, thankfully (or not), she has no kids, but the care is very good and the place is spotless, she seems very happy, she's been there a few years now.  
I know what you mean, there is some really grotty care homes out there, and the good ones are usually full to capacity, which isn't any good being put on a waiting list when you need a care place asap.  Having gone through the same looking for emi dementia care for my dad a few years ago, I do not envy you, good luck with your search.  
To help check the standards try:            Sorry, we couldn't find that page | Care Quality Commission


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

alcam said:


> No , what I said was it is used as an insult . All the other words you have suggested , when used as insults , are obviously racist



Sorry , never heard the word immigrants being used as racist


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## maingate (Sep 28, 2017)

shawbags said:


> I'm looking for a suitable care home for my mum at the moment, most of them are delapedated , drab sorry places , dirty and understaffed , in one I witnessed a carer bending an old ladies fingers back to gain control of her , she had dimencia , sorry not best at spelling , and I reported it straight away , people who own these homes make money because they are way below standard and they get away with it , it's a disgrace how our elderly are being treated that is unless you have a £1000 a week or more to pay for your care , the ones I looked at were afmround £600 a week , my mom and dad worked all their lives , bought their own house , paid their way and this is how my mom is being treated , we are in a constant battle just to get theNHS to do their job !



It can be difficult to find a decent Care Home but before you slag off the UK and the NHS, listen to this.

Just this morning, a friend on another Motorhome Forum has just travelled to France to be with his French born (UK Resident) partner, whose 91 year old Mother was rushed into a French Hospital with serious Heart problems. She has recovered somewhat but will no longer be able to live independently. The Hospital just want her discharged into a Care Home but it is almost impossible to find a place due to lack of them and the extortionate cost ..... sound familiar?

At least what treatment there is available by the NHS is free, my friends partner has a sizable Bill to pay as well (unless her Insurance is excellent).


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## Private (Sep 28, 2017)

*Enterprising*

If the people living in these vans are working then they will be ahead of their peers in a few years time.
if they are living as cheaply as possible to save for a mortgage deposit or just to get financially in front instead of always running in debt then they will buck the system & win.

It is very difficult (in most areas impossible) for the working man to pay for rent & save for a mortgage these days so this is an alternative.
You have to admire them for getting out of the prescribed system to make life work for themselves instead of others. 

Richard Branson lived in a houseboat for long enough & I doubt it was because he loved boats.


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

maingate said:


> It can be difficult to find a decent Care Home but before you slag off the UK and the NHS, listen to this.
> 
> Just this morning, a friend on another Motorhome Forum has just travelled to France to be with his French born (UK Resident) partner, whose 91 year old Mother was rushed into a French Hospital with serious Heart problems. She has recovered somewhat but will no longer be able to live independently. The Hospital just want her discharged into a Care Home but it is almost impossible to find a place due to lack of them and the extortionate cost ..... sound familiar?
> 
> At least what treatment there is available by the NHS is free, my friends partner has a sizable Bill to pay as well (unless her Insurance is excellent).



But the same is happening to my mum , they have tried to discharge her even though she still has the original problems she went in with , they have mislead us , Miss informed us , blatantly lied to us and tried to intimidate us to get her out , we asked for blood and water tests to be done and three weeks later , yes 3 weeks later ! they said they hadn't had time to do it , this is because it would prove ghat mom was unfit to
Leave , they put mom on a bed pan unattended and they hadn't even taken her pad off and left her there crying for help for 15 minute ms, witnesses said they had told the staff 3 times and nothing was done , it just so happened that my sister walked in and found mom like it , there is a long list of complaints not only from us but others too , the nhs is a disgrace, I would jump off a block of flats when I get old if I think I will be treated like that , THIS GOVERNMENT DONT GIVE A TOSS !! And we accept it and do nothing


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

yorkieowl said:


> We have an aunt in a dementia care home, costs roughly £550/600 pw, most of her savings now gone, plus most of the money raised from the sale of her house, thankfully (or not), she has no kids, but the care is very good and the place is spotless, she seems very happy, she's been there a few years now.
> I know what you mean, there is some really grotty care homes out there, and the good ones are usually full to capacity, which isn't any good being put on a waiting list when you need a care place asap.  Having gone through the same looking for emi dementia care for my dad a few years ago, I do not envy you, good luck with your search.
> To help check the standards try:            Sorry, we couldn't find that page | Care Quality Commission



We are well up on the standards of the homes and cqc reports , I found a good one near by but the hospital messed us about that bad we lost the place , my mum can no longer care for herself , cannot walk and needs help with everything, we are trying to get the NHS continued care package but don't hold out much chance , we could then put mom in a better place with better care


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## QFour (Sep 28, 2017)

Just read ' USER 1 ' it's a really good read. Set about 20 yrs in the future.

They call them STACKS. One concrete base and a load of scaffolding poles they get upwards of 15 MH,s, Caravans, Mobile Homes all on top of each other. Not that safe as they collapse sometimes. Makes you wonder where we are heading though. Council don't want to know and as usual bury their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away.

..


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## Private (Sep 28, 2017)

*Not open to all*



Chainsaw Charlie said:


> I would never pay rent to anyone for somewhere to live, I would rather live in a tent or shack
> I have suggested to many youngsters that they can live cheaply in an old caravan or van to save for a mortgage, most don't want to they want it all on a plate.



Where to put the van or tent is the problem.
This is just one lot and look at the furore it has caused. 
They can't all do it, but the enterprising ones will. 

It is our generation that has put them in this position. We can't blame the young for what we have created for them. By that I include them wanting everything; our generation caused that too.


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## maingate (Sep 28, 2017)

shawbags said:


> We are well up on the standards of the homes and cqc reports , I found a good one near by but the hospital messed us about that bad we lost the place , my mum can no longer care for herself , cannot walk and needs help with everything, we are trying to get the NHS continued care package but don't hold out much chance , we could then put mom in a better place with better care



Many of us have been in similar positions but we just get on with it.

My Mother would not go in a Care Home at all, she was far too independent. A trial weekend in one had her in tears. I gave up a very good job because it meant I was overseas for most of the time. I made myself unemployed and I looked after her. Nobody seems to want to do that anymore, they expect a Care Home to do that .... then they moan about the cost of it and how the money they hoped to inherit is disappearing. Sorry, I feel sympathy for your Mothers situation but I don't agree with your handling of it.


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2017)

yorkieowl said:


> I know crazy.
> 
> I would be curious to know how many of the mh'ers parked up are in work and the amount earned, and how many are living aboard,  to judge whether it is really choice or necessity that they are parked up, having said that they may be trying to save on extortionate rent to save for a deposit.  Problem is, easiest way is get them moved on, its someone elses problem then, and there is not enough of them to get things done about it. Unfortunately I've no answers. Someone who feels passionate about it needs to try and start a petition on change.org.
> 
> Someone mentioned about  small 'houses', thing is there is such a housing shortage how long before they were charging silly rents for these, after all they should only be a short term solution, bit like the cheap prefabs, used for way over their intended lifespan.



It was me talking about kit homes,the germans build them and so do we as it was on tv.
 The modern ones are well insulated with all wiring installed along with led light fittings etc.
The concrete bases are built first with all pipework ready for the kit which can be set up in one day.
Now if council could buy into this with as i said a buy back or return of some rent once you hand it back and move on this would be a start.
As most these days live a single life then small units with some having only one bedsit would be ok,and for couples or small familys, units of 2 or 3 bedroom bedsit bungalows would do just fine.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Sep 28, 2017)

Jim as you know I have been in a similar situation myself to look after inlaws then my mother and wife but we are old fashioned and care about family.

Alf



maingate said:


> Many of us have been in similar positions but we just get on with it.
> 
> My Mother would not go in a Care Home at all, she was far too independent. A trial weekend in one had her in tears. I gave up a very good job because it meant I was overseas for most of the time. I made myself unemployed and I looked after her. Nobody seems to want to do that anymore, they expect a Care Home to do that .... then they moan about the cost of it and how the money they hoped to inherit is disappearing. Sorry, I feel sympathy for your Mothers situation but I don't agree with your handling of it.


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## GreggBear (Sep 28, 2017)

malagaoth said:


> that is simply unrealistic.
> 
> IF the council provided somewhere for them to park they must (by law) provide facilities  - water, toilets waste disposal  all of which come at a cost, who pays? the council tax payer!
> 
> ...



If you read the previous posts in the thread, you would become aware that GreggBear didn't in fact say that none of the residents were prostitutes or involved with drugs. I think if you look properly, you will see what "he" actually said differs in context to your interpretation of his comments! And why is my comment about Winstanley'diggers wide of the mark?


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2017)

Chainsaw Charlie said:


> It is a funny thing as it really only seems to be the UK and USA that chuck their elderly relatives into so called care homes, I have Bulgarian friends and Spanish they would be horrified.
> My Bulgarian mate slept on the put up bed so his Grandma could have his bedroom , this is a grown up man in his 30,s .



The irish did that up to not so long ago ,but things are changing and there children must work and if married then both are working to buy a home along with the bmw car a cruse caravan ,hols etc,so no time or money left for the wrinkleys.


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## suneye (Sep 28, 2017)

I lived in west Africa for many years and you see the less fortunate living in makeshift housing around cities.  Our present political agenda, with zero hours contracts and extortionate rents, have created a similar 'have not' section of society, unable to afford a solid roof over their heads.  This group includes educated young people and those who don't want to live on the streets. The difference between many african countries and ours is our planning laws don't allow people to build their own shelters and people are resorting to vans and boats in an attempt to stay within the law.  We are going to see more and more of this.  My own daughter still lives at home, she is hard working but there is no way that she could afford even a room around here.  Many of our generation have no idea of some of the awful working conditions that exist at the moment and the hand to mouth way that many on zero hours contracts live.


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2017)

suneye said:


> I lived in west Africa for many years and you see the less fortunate living in makeshift housing around cities.  Our present political agenda, with zero hours contracts and extortionate rents, have created a similar 'have not' section of society, unable to afford a solid roof over their heads.  This group includes educated young people and those who don't want to live on the streets. The difference between many african countries and ours is our planning laws don't allow people to build their own shelters and people are resorting to vans and boats in an attempt to stay within the law.  We are going to see more and more of this.  My own daughter still lives at home, she is hard working but there is no way that she could afford even a room around here.  Many of our generation have no idea of some of the awful working conditions that exist at the moment and the hand to mouth way that many on zero hours contracts live.



And then we wonder why young people get pi--ed of with no end in site which leads to drink/drugs and for girls worse.


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## yorkieowl (Sep 28, 2017)

Alf said:


> Jim as you know I have been in a similar situation myself to look after inlaws then my mother and wife but we are old fashioned and care about family.
> 
> Alf



I find that quite derogatory, you don't know his circumstances, or ours.  Although I don't need to explain myself to anyone, my father had dementia, amongst other health problems, was violent, was a large man who needed 2 carers at all times, he was also doubly incontinent, and unable to stand by himself.  I told them I would take him home to care for him, (long sad story), but even they admitted we would never manage. We had no other family close by to help.  We could not live on benefits, (as they wouldn't kick in for some months having been self employed and stopping working voluntarily), and mentally I know I wouldn't have coped, I find it hard to get out of bed and look after myself somedays, so would have helped no one.  Never did it mean I didn't care, and do I feel guilty for not taking care of him when he needed me, damn right I do every damned single day.


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2017)

I think a small proportion of wages from the start linked to pension should be ring fenced for when our time comes for the home,anyway im still taking my rocking  chair and hot water bottle.


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## Private (Sep 28, 2017)

*That's too much*



Chainsaw Charlie said:


> Not sure we are to blame it seems to me that a lot of the youngsters are just lazy , the lad I was working with has done up 2 houses with his brother and built a new one , now they own one house mortgage free and have just bought another, all at age 27 ,they both worked long hours in their jobs and both sold their cars to finance it at the beginning and they still work full time .
> Ok it helps that one is a sparky and the other a plumber



Society should not only look after those that excel; as those you describe clearly are. 
What is wrong with a hard working man being a warehouse labourer and still being able to bring up kids AND afford a mortgage? 
They could do in my day and I'm still sub 50 years old.
We still need the men as described but now they can only live the life of scraping by. Where is the incentive? 
Why has it changed so radically in a few short years?

I had every incentive as a teenager to live a good clean working life knowing I could be financially stable as a working man; not an exceptional working man, just a working man. 
These days that option is not there. 
Not everybody wants a trade, not everybody is capable of doing a trade. We need to look after all workers because after all they are looking after us.

We should not judge others using ourselves as a minimum standard. We need to look after everybody.
Give the 'lazy' youngsters a job within their ability and with a reasonable reward and you will see the sweat roll.


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## n brown (Sep 28, 2017)

things will be more cut and dried soon when we adopt the american health system , where it's better for your family that you die, and your life insurance pays out , rather than hanging on while your health insurance runs out and your family pays the medical  bills


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## suneye (Sep 28, 2017)

Private said:


> Society should not only look after those that excel; as those you describe clearly are.
> What is wrong with a hard working man being a warehouse labourer and still being able to bring up kids AND afford a mortgage?
> They could do in my day and I'm still sub 50 years old.
> We still need the men as described but now they can only live the life of scraping by. Where is the incentive?
> ...



I have a colleague who has young children and was working two jobs.  She was finding it hard to pay her bills and find money for her growing girls to have what they needed so she got a third job.  She looks exhausted but is always cheerful until last week when she found out her third job had meant she lost her housing benefit and she was worse off than before.  Working class no longer means a job, a wage packet and roof over your head.


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2017)

Same here if i earn to much money they take almost £180 a week on child benefit /working tax credit of me,so not worth my time doing to many hrs work.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Sep 28, 2017)

Alf



yorkieowl said:


> I find that quite derogatory, you don't know his circumstances, or ours.  Although I don't need to explain myself to anyone, my father had dementia, amongst other health problems, was violent, was a large man who needed 2 carers at all times, he was also doubly incontinent, and unable to stand by himself.  I told them I would take him home to care for him, (long sad story), but even they admitted we would never manage. We had no other family close by to help.  We could not live on benefits, (as they wouldn't kick in for some months having been self employed and stopping working voluntarily), and mentally I know I wouldn't have coped, I find it hard to get out of bed and look after myself somedays, so would have helped no one.  Never did it mean I didn't care, and do I feel guilty for not taking care of him when he needed me, damn right I do every damned single day.


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

maingate said:


> Many of us have been in similar positions but we just get on with it.
> 
> My Mother would not go in a Care Home at all, she was far too independent. A trial weekend in one had her in tears. I gave up a very good job because it meant I was overseas for most of the time. I made myself unemployed and I looked after her. Nobody seems to want to do that anymore, they expect a Care Home to do that .... then they moan about the cost of it and how the money they hoped to inherit is disappearing. Sorry, I feel sympathy for your Mothers situation but I don't agree with your handling of it.



You don't know the full of it , I have done my best to look after my mother since my father passed away 5 years ago , I have suffered ill health myself and stayed at home to care for my mum , we also paid privately for a carer who has been brilliant and is now like a daughter to
My
Mum , about a year ago she started to fall a lot and it quickly got to the stage where we couldn't cope with her and asked for help from the social services and that is when the trouble started , my mothers estate will go to her care as that is what we knew it would be needed for , the problem has been that the NHS have refused to give mom extra care she is entitled, they lied to us , now they have been proven wrong basically committing what is actually fraud , they are dragging there heals sorting things out , you have no idea of my mothers situation so don't judge people in as you say , how I have handled it , until you know the full facts wich obviously you never will .


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## shawbags (Sep 28, 2017)

n brown said:


> things will be more cut and dried soon when we adopt the american health system , where it's better for your family that you die, and your life insurance pays out , rather than hanging on while your health insurance runs out and your family pays the medical  bills



We shouldn't have to adopt anyone else's system we should be cared for without question in our old age , the NHS should be getting better all the time but it's not because the powers that be spent the uk tax payers money in trash instead of spending it on what the people of this country need and want , we the true people of this country , are our worst enemy because we sit back and allow this theft and corruption to go on , as I've said shame on us , as said earlier alm we need is a leader that will stand and say it as it is , then people will follow .


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## maingate (Sep 29, 2017)

shawbags said:


> You don't know the full of it , I have done my best to look after my mother since my father passed away 5 years ago , I have suffered ill health myself and stayed at home to care for my mum , we also paid privately for a carer who has been brilliant and is now like a daughter to
> My
> Mum , about a year ago she started to fall a lot and it quickly got to the stage where we couldn't cope with her and asked for help from the social services and that is when the trouble started , my mothers estate will go to her care as that is what we knew it would be needed for , the problem has been that the NHS have refused to give mom extra care she is entitled, they lied to us , now they have been proven wrong basically committing what is actually fraud , they are dragging there heals sorting things out , you have no idea of my mothers situation so don't judge people in as you say , how I have handled it , until you know the full facts wich obviously you never will .



No, I don't know your full circumstances, just as you don't (or didn't) know mine. I'm sorry to hear that you feel badly let down by the NHS, that is not something I hear a lot of in this part of the UK. You have not made public which part of the country your Mother lives and that can make a difference. My Brother lived on the South Coast where young people were a rarity and it was known as 'Gods waiting room', the standard of NHS care was inferior to my part of the UK.

My reply was to your post but I was speaking in general terms, not specifically at yourself. Every case is unique. In my case my Mother fell and broke her Hip. It put my life on hold, cost me my job but the woman who nurtured and raised me needed help. It does not sound vastly different to your situation except that it was a great financial penalty to myself that I thought worthwhile. It is all a matter of attitude, I did not feel guilty that I had not done enough for her in the years before she died, I hope you can say the same because you have to live with that. You seem to want the NHS and professional Carers to get involved, all I had was a Home Help to keep the house tidy and make sure she had a Breakfast because I lived 15 miles away. I certainly put some mileage on the car, running the Wife to work then seeing to my Mother. 

Once I was organised I was even able to do a part time Course at Sunderland University in Advanced Manufacturing Technology because I like to keep busy.

I'm from a Pit Village and worked in the Pits myself. We are a community, we look after each other and we look after our families ..... end of.


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## runnach (Sep 29, 2017)

maingate said:


> No, I don't know your full circumstances, just as you don't (or didn't) know mine. I'm sorry to hear that you feel badly let down by the NHS, that is not something I hear a lot of in this part of the UK. You have not made public which part of the country your Mother lives and that can make a difference. My Brother lived on the South Coast where young people were a rarity and it was known as 'Gods waiting room', the standard of NHS care was inferior to my part of the UK.
> 
> My reply was to your post but I was speaking in general terms, not specifically at yourself. Every case is unique. In my case my Mother fell and broke her Hip. It put my life on hold, cost me my job but the woman who nurtured and raised me needed help. It does not sound vastly different to your situation except that it was a great financial penalty to myself that I thought worthwhile. It is all a matter of attitude, I did not feel guilty that I had not done enough for her in the years before she died, I hope you can say the same because you have to live with that. You seem to want the NHS and professional Carers to get involved, all I had was a Home Help to keep the house tidy and make sure she had a Breakfast because I lived 15 miles away. I certainly put some mileage on the car, running the Wife to work then seeing to my Mother.
> 
> ...


 I have been a regular visitor on the NHS this year , slow at times occasional indifference but overall a sterling job. the same must be true in care homes and really any service you can think of.

your pit village reference interesting Jim and the reason for a lot of our woes not just the nhs is community spirit has been diluted to the extent some places you cant taste the heritage 

channa


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## jeanette (Sep 29, 2017)

malagaoth said:


> well thats pretty much it, do you think that they should be allowed to stay?
> 
> Do you draw a distinction between these people and people who want to park up on Brighton sea front for days/weeks on end? (I dont)



No I don't think they should be allowed to stay at all!!! If it was you or I we would be moved on in a heartbeat no doubt and that is not what I was getting at really I was getting at that they should be moved on!! IMO


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

maingate said:


> No, I don't know your full circumstances, just as you don't (or didn't) know mine. I'm sorry to hear that you feel badly let down by the NHS, that is not something I hear a lot of in this part of the UK. You have not made public which part of the country your Mother lives and that can make a difference. My Brother lived on the South Coast where young people were a rarity and it was known as 'Gods waiting room', the standard of NHS care was inferior to my part of the UK.
> 
> My reply was to your post but I was speaking in general terms, not specifically at yourself. Every case is unique. In my case my Mother fell and broke her Hip. It put my life on hold, cost me my job but the woman who nurtured and raised me needed help. It does not sound vastly different to your situation except that it was a great financial penalty to myself that I thought worthwhile. It is all a matter of attitude, I did not feel guilty that I had not done enough for her in the years before she died, I hope you can say the same because you have to live with that. You seem to want the NHS and professional Carers to get involved, all I had was a Home Help to keep the house tidy and make sure she had a Breakfast because I lived 15 miles away. I certainly put some mileage on the car, running the Wife to work then seeing to my Mother.
> 
> ...



What are you ? Some kind of marter lol , I looked after my mom at home for nearly 5 years and we paid for private care to do the same , look after her home and keep her comfy , I'm 3 minutes away so it there was a problem I was close and quick to get there , day in day out 24 hour , no you don't know anything and your spurting in like I've done something wrong lmao ! Just another idiot on here trying to cause an argument , the NHS as part over the government, are another system that say your entitled to extra care but then do their best not to pay up and that's the only point I'm making but obviously there is a bitter twisted twat like you that has to make something out of nothing , grow up man , life is too short for you to pick petty arguments out of something you know nothing about , and if you are one of the pit boys you of all people should know what it's like to get ripped off by our government


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## Private (Sep 29, 2017)

*5 day week not lazy*



Chainsaw Charlie said:


> Having employed many people the lazy will always be lazy and actually drag the others down to their level not the other way around, not sure where you grew up but the guys that worked for me earned reasonably good wages for their respective skill levels but it was only the grafters that managed to better themselves.
> Some of my lot did 7 days a week at times and then the lazy ones thought it unfair when they bought a new car or house ?



It depends what you call lazy. 
You mention7 day week working & lazy in the same sentence. Do you mean those that would not do a 7 day week were lazy or that the lazy just did not work hard enough on the days they worked?

Money is not the only thing that incentivises people to work hard and it is proven time and again that people are more productive when rested.

We even have the 48 hour working week laws now so that quashes the ambitions of those that are happy to do long hours.

The work you were providing is not what we can judge working people and their earnings by.
Most people are PAYE and in hours regulated businesses.
Those are the wages we have to be using to judge whether society is working for the working man or not; it clearly is not as explained above by people having to work multiple jobs.


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## maingate (Sep 29, 2017)

shawbags said:


> What are you ? Some kind of marter lol , I looked after my mom at home for nearly 5 years and we paid for private care to do the same , look after her home and keep her comfy , I'm 3 minutes away so it there was a problem I was close and quick to get there , day in day out 24 hour , no you don't know anything and your spurting in like I've done something wrong lmao ! Just another idiot on here trying to cause an argument , the NHS as part over the government, are another system that say your entitled to extra care but then do their best not to pay up and that's the only point I'm making but obviously there is a bitter twisted twat like you that has to make something out of nothing , grow up man , life is too short for you to pick petty arguments out of something you know nothing about , and if you are one of the pit boys you of all people should know what it's like to get ripped off by our government



You are the one publicly wringing your hands and blaming everyone else for your woes. Stop your whingeing and just play the hand you have been dealt like a man would.

Feckin' baby.


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## RodYork (Sep 29, 2017)

shawbags said:


> I'm looking for a suitable care home for my mum at the moment, most of them are delapedated , drab sorry places , dirty and understaffed , in one I witnessed a carer bending an old ladies fingers back to gain control of her , she had dimencia , sorry not best at spelling , and I reported it straight away , people who own these homes make money because they are way below standard and they get away with it , it's a disgrace how our elderly are being treated that is unless you have a £1000 a week or more to pay for your care , the ones I looked at were afmround £600 a week , my mom and dad worked all their lives , bought their own house , paid their way and this is how my mom is being treated , we are in a constant battle just to get theNHS to do their job !



I cant contact you via PM, but I have been in a similar situation & won full funding for my father-If you need any help, please contact me.


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

maingate said:


> You are the one publicly wringing your hands and blaming everyone else for your woes. Stop your whingeing and just play the hand you have been dealt like a man would.
> 
> Feckin' baby LMAO !


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

Private said:


> It depends what you call lazy.
> You mention7 day week working & lazy in the same sentence. Do you mean those that would not do a 7 day week were lazy or that the lazy just did not work hard enough on the days they worked?
> 
> Money is not the only thing that incentivises people to work hard and it is proven time and again that people are more productive when rested.
> ...


I was a HGV driver for over 20 years and a 40 hour week was none existent, when the 48 hour rule came it if you mention to your employer they just ignored you , I totally agree with what your saying , people are supposed to work for a quality life not work themselves to death , you work to live not live to work .


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

As I mentioned before , I think under the circumstances there has to be plenty of unused farm land that small communities could be put in , I mean properly not with people that would run riot , there would have to be rules and regulations , it must be kept tidy , no bad behaviour, rubbish collections etc , turn them into little housing estates with a low rent and maybe put people living on the site in control of the upkeep, there has to be order or there would always be someone that will ruin it for the rest , put people on a monthly contract maybe so they could leave or be removed when in Ruley , get the people who initially want to live there to help create the site so everyone chips in , farmers would make money if the rent , jobs may be made out of it , rubbish collection ect , something needs doing cus these situations are going to become more common , so instead of the councils , police fighting against then do something to help them , if people don't want to work towards helping themselves then they wouldn't get the help .


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## Deleted member 56601 (Sep 29, 2017)

shawbags said:


> As I mentioned before , I think under the circumstances there has to be plenty of unused farm land that small communities could be put in , I mean properly not with people that would run riot , there would have to be rules and regulations , it must be kept tidy , no bad behaviour, rubbish collections etc , turn them into little housing estates with a low rent and maybe put people living on the site in control of the upkeep, there has to be order or there would always be someone that will ruin it for the rest , put people on a monthly contract maybe so they could leave or be removed when in Ruley , get the people who initially want to live there to help create the site so everyone chips in , farmers would make money if the rent , jobs may be made out of it , rubbish collection ect , something needs doing cus these situations are going to become more common , so instead of the councils , police fighting against then do something to help them , if people don't want to work towards helping themselves then they wouldn't get the help .



What part of cuckoo land do you live in?


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## mistericeman (Sep 29, 2017)

Edina said:


> What part of cuckoo land do you live in?



Lala street, 
Utopiaville, 
Cloud cuckoo land..... 

Maybe there should be unicorns wandering around with a bunch of fairies to grant free wishes too. 

Meanwhile back in the real world.......


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## Private (Sep 29, 2017)

*Radical*



mistericeman said:


> Lala street,
> Utopiaville,
> Cloud cuckoo land.....
> 
> ...



Don't worry about these type of comments. 
Every radical view in the past has experienced them.

It is the belief in something different that matters. 
If it wasn't for religion stunting mans knowledge we would be much further ahead in our devopment today but nobody could speak out for fear of their life.
Today it is only ridicule so we have progressed a bit.

We look back with disgust at slavery but can't yet see how we are now in a new form of slavery ourselves.

One day future generations will look back with disgust at the way we live today, but only if people with vision and the will to act start something different.


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## Deleted member 56601 (Sep 29, 2017)

Private said:


> Don't worry about these type of comments.
> Every radical view in the past has experienced them.
> 
> It is the belief in something different that matters.
> ...



Spot on - will to act, not just keep bellyaching on forums.


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

It is the narrow minded people that ridicule that make the world a bad place , we are going to have to be more open minded and start working together to make like better for ourselves  , I grew up thinking that anarchy was a word used for bad people then I read up on it , it started with a group of people that wanted to live and work on there own land and not neceybe part of the government that ran the country , obviously it became a word the the government pushed as people being totally anti government , then the punk movement in the 70's expressed that even further lol , why should people not be able to live off and on their own land . What I was saying was all to be done within the law of the land and in an orderly way , SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE or these sort of situations will get out of control as more people cannot afford to live , let's start working together , form groups for people in these situations, look for no mans land and out claims in on that land , people have done things in the past that have seemed impossible yet it's become normal to us now .


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## runnach (Sep 29, 2017)

I am playing catch up and wonder what immigration has got to do with 30 vehicles parked up in Bristol ( but I have had a kip )

I also find it interesting despite several people spelling out parts of the Equality Act 2010 , People still need to use the word and can "Pikey" yet use of the N word well quick way of  joining the French ex pat 

Just an observation !

Channa


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

Edina said:


> Spot on - will to act, not just keep bellyaching on forums.



Thanks for the support from both of you instead of blinkered , negative remarks


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

Private said:


> Don't worry about these type of comments.
> Every radical view in the past has experienced them.
> 
> It is the belief in something different that matters.
> ...



Someone who makes sense, cheers


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## Private (Sep 29, 2017)

*All roles*



Edina said:


> Spot on - will to act, not just keep bellyaching on forums.



The "bellyaching" is the sharing of ideas. The learning stage. It is all part of the process. 
When people believe they have enough ideas to act upon they will do and if they have gained their knowledge through a variety of diverse ideas so much the better. 

What is happening now is not working for the majority; change will come. 
Let's hope it is for the better because it will be for the worse if left to the usual suspects to implement the change.


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## n brown (Sep 29, 2017)

bit of a postscript
my daughter tells me the Easton area facebook page is full of chat about the vans parked up, and it's predominately positive
it's a cut through to a large primary school and women are saying how much safer they feel going past the vans, as the kerb crawlers have been put off by them , and no more dodgy characters in dark-glassed bmw's and audi's
one thing they seem to agree on is their dislike of the Daily Mail !
plus a number of people wish they had the bottle to do it, and get away from the ridiculously high rents .
so that's what the locals feel about it


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

I would rather have van dwellers the prostitutes and drug dealers so good for them .


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## suneye (Sep 29, 2017)

People are people in any group there will be some good, some bad so if you go determined to find something to prove a point you probably will and if you go looking for good you will find that too IMO.


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## trevskoda (Sep 29, 2017)

Yep reading all the above things must change as young folk cannot get a proper roof over there head and rents which are well above morgage rates,they will never get there head above water.
Only when vans/caravans etc start parking outside lady mucks house will mr muck do something like talks within government to ease and sort this housing probs,time folk started to lobby there mp and get the ball rolling,if they dont we all will have are streets full of vans,in fact some here may already on this path,or there children.


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

RodYork said:


> I cant contact you via PM, but I have been in a similar situation & won full funding for my father-If you need any help, please contact me.



Thanks for you reply , there are around 10 people at the moment that were told , fraudulently , that they would not get the funding , many people are now appealing and wining hundreds of thousands of £££££ back , it is a criminal offence for an advisor to tell you you are not entitled to it when you are , cheers


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## shawbags (Sep 29, 2017)

shawbags said:


> Thanks for you reply , there are around 10 people at the moment that were told , fraudulently , that they would not get the funding , many people are now appealing and wining hundreds of thousands of £££££ back , it is a criminal offence for an advisor to tell you you are not entitled to it when you are , cheers



Sorry about that as to last post 10,000 people making a claim


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## runnach (Sep 29, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Yep reading all the above things must change as young folk cannot get a proper roof over there head and rents which are well above morgage rates,they will never get there head above water.
> Only when vans/caravans etc start parking outside lady mucks house will mr muck do something like talks within government to ease and sort this housing probs,time folk started to lobby there mp and get the ball rolling,if they dont we all will have are streets full of vans,in fact some here may already on this path,or there children.



No doubt confrontational but if you take some people here and society in general and it is not a knock but observation , we save for a rainy day ( or try)protect the wealth we have which for most people is a house, we all want market value , maximium return on rental properties owned no one would rent say a £500 gaff for £250 to give youngsters a step on the ladder, It is not greed in the true sense but it is all contributing towards pricing the young out the market. no one pays more for anything than they need to, save money and get maximum gain from assets. I cant see that changing.

re housing a lot of forces houses are stood or were empty they could be used , but then green monster kicks in someone might  be getting advantage of something I have not got attitude so it all gets derailed.

I don't think it is important to own anymore in someways especially if you are a young person where mobility is required to progress in the workplace,,,It sounds daft but a social revolution beckons we are on the cusp things cant continue the way they are too many things are imploding.

I don't know he answers but a big problem out there which it seems the answer is very complex 

Channa


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## chrismilo (Sep 30, 2017)

I like peace and quiet at 3am not some youngster parked right next to me playing loud (C)rap music not lots of vans either
Especially when there's enough space 50yds further down the carpark or layby they park right next to you
Just my tuppence worth :yeahthat::sleep-040:


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## alcam (Sep 30, 2017)

n brown said:


> bit of a postscript
> my daughter tells me the Easton area facebook page is full of chat about the vans parked up, and it's predominately positive
> it's a cut through to a large primary school and women are saying how much safer they feel going past the vans, as the kerb crawlers have been put off by them , and no more dodgy characters in dark-glassed bmw's and audi's
> one thing they seem to agree on is their dislike of the Daily Mail !
> ...



All sounds very positive .
For those amongst us who take drugs and consort with prostitutes where should we sorry they go now ?


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## n brown (Sep 30, 2017)

alcam said:


> All sounds very positive .
> For those amongst us who take drugs and consort with prostitutes where should we sorry they go now ?


 if you're into mildly deranged crack whores, there's usually a couple hanging about Stapleton Rd
one of my kids had a flat along there briefly and one night found a 'transaction' occurring in her porch. the 'lady' looked up and said - don't worry love, won't be long !'
my daughter, being well brought up, apologised and shut the door


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## suneye (Sep 30, 2017)

channa said:


> No doubt confrontational but if you take some people here and society in general and it is not a knock but observation , we save for a rainy day ( or try)protect the wealth we have which for most people is a house, we all want market value , maximium return on rental properties owned no one would rent say a £500 gaff for £250 to give youngsters a step on the ladder, It is not greed in the true sense but it is all contributing towards pricing the young out the market. no one pays more for anything than they need to, save money and get maximum gain from assets. I cant see that changing.
> 
> re housing a lot of forces houses are stood or were empty they could be used , but then green monster kicks in someone might  be getting advantage of something I have not got attitude so it all gets derailed.
> 
> ...



I agree but unfortunately most of the rental market is not one person renting out his one or two houses it is dictated by people who have become multi millionaires by having huge portfolios of properties and pushing up the prices or buying houses and splitting them into one room rentals at inflated prices. They themselves are not living comfortably in a three bed semi but enjoying mansions and villas a plenty.  As you say no simple answer to this one but the rich become richer when there is a good supply of cheap labour and people scared of loosing their jobs so at the moment no incentive to change things by those power who are living off the fat.


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## Private (Sep 30, 2017)

channa said:


> No doubt confrontational but if you take some people here and society in general and it is not a knock but observation , we save for a rainy day ( or try)protect the wealth we have which for most people is a house, we all want market value , maximium return on rental properties owned no one would rent say a £500 gaff for £250 to give youngsters a step on the ladder, It is not greed in the true sense but it is all contributing towards pricing the young out the market. no one pays more for anything than they need to, save money and get maximum gain from assets. I cant see that changing.
> 
> re housing a lot of forces houses are stood or were empty they could be used , but then green monster kicks in someone might  be getting advantage of something I have not got attitude so it all gets derailed.
> 
> ...



We rent our houses for below market rate. This is because we are compassionate towards our tenants and as there is no mortgage on the properties we can afford to charge less and still make a profit. 
Rather than plough on into wealth we chose to stop working in our early 40's.
Not everybody is money oriented. We prefer to look after what we have rather than earn more.

We are not alone in our ways. You will find most people are very generous but they don't have a lot to be generous with.
There is a reason that the meanest, least compassionate people in society are at the top of the wealth leagues.
The different way is to let the majority rule. It is called democracy but it is something we don't have.


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## trevskoda (Sep 30, 2017)

alcam said:


> All sounds very positive .
> For those amongst us who take drugs and consort with prostitutes where should we sorry they go now ?



Strait to a convent/monistery where you will get lots of sex drugs etc.


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## trevskoda (Sep 30, 2017)

n brown said:


> if you're into mildly deranged crack whores, there's usually a couple hanging about Stapleton Rd
> one of my kids had a flat along there briefly and one night found a 'transaction' occurring in her porch. the 'lady' looked up and said - don't worry love, won't be long !'
> my daughter, being well brought up, apologised and shut the door



You mean she did not take any pictures and place on utube.:lol-053:


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## trevskoda (Sep 30, 2017)

suneye said:


> I agree but unfortunately most of the rental market is not one person renting out his one or two houses it is dictated by people who have become multi millionaires by having huge portfolios of properties and pushing up the prices or buying houses and splitting them into one room rentals at inflated prices. They themselves are not living comfortably in a three bed semi but enjoying mansions and villas a plenty.  As you say no simple answer to this one but the rich become richer when there is a good supply of cheap labour and people scared of loosing their jobs so at the moment no incentive to change things by those power who are living off the fat.



Remember what the french did to sort the problem of those at top controlling the people,it could happen here.


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## runnach (Sep 30, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Remember what the french did to sort the problem of those at top controlling the people,it could happen here.



Lose yer head playing those sorts of games Trev a tad extreme.

Channa


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## trevskoda (Sep 30, 2017)

channa said:


> Lose yer head playing those sorts of games Trev a tad extreme.
> 
> Channa



It is of course channa but im just posting as to say people will get fed up as this problem is getting bigger by the day with no end in sight.
Next thing there may be riots in small pockets around the country when police are brought in to serve notice to quit,it had happened in the past,1930 springs to mind.
With the way the gov is ar-ing about making a total pigs ear of things but trying to keep peoples minds of the real problems with brexit,just like they did with faulklands war when the country was down and miners strikes.
But in truth people are starting to see through things a bit better but our children will be left in the thick of things left behind as us wrinklys bow out with age.


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## wildebus (Sep 30, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> It is of course channa but im just posting as to say people will get fed up as this problem is getting bigger by the day with no end in sight.
> Next thing there may be riots in small pockets around the country when police are brought in to serve notice to quit,it had happened in the past,1930 springs to mind.
> With the way the gov is ar-ing about making a total pigs ear of things but trying to keep peoples minds of the real problems with brexit,just like they did with faulklands war when the country was down and miners strikes.
> But in truth people are starting to see through things a bit better but our children will be left in the thick of things left behind as us wrinklys bow out with age.


Sounds like you are predicting 1979  (Quatermass)

Huffity Puffity Ringstone Round .....


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## TR5 (Oct 2, 2017)

n brown said:


> while i'm on the subject
> i know this bit of dead end road very well,my son had a house here .it's been a very popular spot for drug deals to go down ,and a well known spot for prostitutes to take their clients, i would be reluctant to walk through it at night
> these vandwellers have stopped these activities and the area is now safe for people to pass through



Just watch where you tread !!:scared:


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## Asterix (Oct 2, 2017)

shawbags said:


> It is the narrow minded people that ridicule that make the world a bad place , we are going to have to be more open minded and start working together to make like better for ourselves  , I grew up thinking that anarchy was a word used for bad people then I read up on it , it started with a group of people that wanted to live and work on there own land and not neceybe part of the government that ran the country , obviously it became a word the the government pushed as people being totally anti government , then the punk movement in the 70's expressed that even further lol , why should people not be able to live off and on their own land . What I was saying was all to be done within the law of the land and in an orderly way , SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE or these sort of situations will get out of control as more people cannot afford to live , let's start working together , form groups for people in these situations, look for no mans land and out claims in on that land , people have done things in the past that have seemed impossible yet it's become normal to us now .



I was also of the belief that anarchy was a bad thing,but after reading up on it last year I was surprised to find that it's actually a viable system of running a community.
It's quite relevant at the moment with what's going on in the Catalan region,but if course our capitalist masters will have none of it!

10 Instances Of Anarchist Societies That Actually Worked - Listverse


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## trevskoda (Oct 2, 2017)

Asterix said:


> I was also of the belief that anarchy was a bad thing,but after reading up on it last year I was surprised to find that it's actually a viable system of running a community.
> It's quite relevant at the moment with what's going on in the Catalan region,but if course our capitalist masters will have none of it!
> 
> 10 Instances Of Anarchist Societies That Actually Worked - Listverse



Yep have to watch them spaniards,nasty lot ,last time they came round here there boats sank and any that swam ashore we fixed them for stealing our girls.:hammer:


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## Private (Oct 2, 2017)

*Welfare State*



Asterix said:


> I was also of the belief that anarchy was a bad thing,but after reading up on it last year I was surprised to find that it's actually a viable system of running a community.
> It's quite relevant at the moment with what's going on in the Catalan region,but if course our capitalist masters will have none of it!
> 
> 10 Instances Of Anarchist Societies That Actually Worked - Listverse



Do not forget we do not have a true capitalist system in the UK (or anywhere else for that matter). 
The large, dominant companies are always relying on the welfare state for handouts (e.g. bank bailouts, railway susidies, working tax credits). 
Just to have a true capitalist system would be a good start.

i got started on writing more but I've probably already written enough recently to book myself a strip search on the way back into the UK.


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## shawbags (Oct 2, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Yep have to watch them spaniards,nasty lot ,last time they came round here there boats sank and any that swam ashore we fixed them for stealing our girls.:hammer:



No they would rather beat their so called subjects into submission , if I owned enough land and had the finances I would start a small community, when I was younger about 30 year ago tiger were a community of travellers that kept getting moved on , a man in our area who owned land invited them to stay , it was in the countryside in a well to door area but the nearest house was about 1/2 a mile away , now the man who invited them to his land was a bit of a character and would do things to shock or test the system and to be honest he was a bit of a nut job but I admired him , cut a long story short the local council did there usual thing but god did he give them a run for their money lol
, the only problem as I could see was the toilet situation but besides that they were ok people , seeing some of their conversions started me off in campervan life , so if any of you happen to be on here thanks for the encouragement cus I've enjoyed it to the full Lol , the land was in romsley near Halesowen it was 34 years ago to be exact .


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## shawbags (Oct 2, 2017)

Example of the Spanish , they encouraged people to buy solar panels , they then built a giant solar panel power station and because they were not recouping enough money they now tax anyone for using solar panels at home LMFAO !! Is that not typical , you cannot win unless enough people stood up and said no
More , they would put the army
With police on the streets to beat us into submission  Unless the police and the army were the people protesting


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## alcam (Oct 3, 2017)

trevskoda said:


> Yep have to watch them spaniards,nasty lot ,last time they came round here there boats sank and any that swam ashore we fixed them for stealing our girls.:hammer:



Think they got the girls first !


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## trevskoda (Oct 3, 2017)

alcam said:


> Think they got the girls first !



You may be right,there is a few tinted girls around portrush/portstewart & donegal town,still like a bit of bull them spanish lads


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## Deleted member 64209 (Oct 4, 2017)

n brown said:


> while i'm on the subject
> i know this bit of dead end road very well,my son had a house here .it's been a very popular spot for drug deals to go down ,and a well known spot for prostitutes to take their clients, i would be reluctant to walk through it at night
> these vandwellers have stopped these activities and the area is now safe for people to pass through



So not so much fun there now you can't buy a spliff and some 'company' then... ;-)


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## yeoblade (Oct 9, 2017)

BBC R2 Jeremy Vine show featured this lunchtime, quite a few different views, including, what are they doing with their grey waste  and black,:hammer::hammer:


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## wildebus (Oct 9, 2017)

yeoblade said:


> BBC R2 Jeremy Vine show featured this lunchtime, quite a few different views, including, what are they doing with their grey waste  and black,:hammer::hammer:



Did he do one of his "and let's listen to a camper filling the kettle from the cemetery tap" style exclusives?  12:03 - change channel for me :ninja:


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## patrick (Oct 9, 2017)

A cheeky landlord hoping to cash in on Bristol’s van dwelling community has posted an advert on Gumtree for a tenant to live in his parked minibus, for rent of £220 per month.

The owner of the minibus, a man named Johnny, posted the advert on the site on Thursday, claiming the van comes with all the facilities required for “winter living” on a city street.

The yellow van – which appears to be a former school minibus – boasts a fire burner, cooker, oven, sink, tap, double bed and kitchen table. The monthly rent is quoted at £220 at the top of the ad, although a lower figure of £160 also appears in the description.

Someone is advertising this parked van in Easton as a home for rent on Gumtree - Bristol Post

You can rent a home on this street for just PS220-a-month - but there is a MASSIVE catch


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