# Changing the V5c



## madtheswine99 (Sep 28, 2019)

I have tried 3 times to have my Transit van changed on the V5c to a Motor Caravan. I have followed all the rules as stated on the government website and have been refused on all 3 occasions. It states it has to recognisable as a "Motor Caravan" on the outside and not just the inside. I have put graphics on the sides and back to make it look like a motorhome, but have still been refused. What else does anyone recommend.


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2019)

If the inside complies with the regs in full then i would put a letter to the top person in charge and ask why,have you any pictures of inside for us.


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## madtheswine99 (Sep 28, 2019)

Yes, I have fully complied with what they have asked on the website.


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## groyne (Sep 28, 2019)

Only things I can think of, is move the table nearer the seating, to show you can sit down and have a meal at it. Also make up the bed, shot a duvet and a couple of pillows on it. The jobsworths at the DVLA only see a van with windows and Decals, I know they don't ask for them, but maybe a roof vent and/or a Status aerial would alter the outside enough.
Also add a letter detailing what you have done, including everything above and beyond what the ask for, such as gas and smoke alarms, insulation etc.


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## Caz (Sep 28, 2019)

I have read elsewhere that DVLA are refusing all changes at the moment. It seems they are waiting for some changes to classification of use.


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## maingate (Sep 28, 2019)

Caz is correct. Maybe the website has not caught up with the changes.


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## Markd (Sep 28, 2019)

I'd say that they are more interested in the outside than the inside.
With blacked out windows a casual (plod) look doesn't shout Motor Caravan.
Maybe some vinyl declaring it to be a motor caravan will do the trick - perhaps say how many berths it has!
You can always take it off later!
Or that may be the concern?
Certainly worth a letter and complaint.
Now you've tried 3 times without any substantive help try getting your MP to show an interest - after all they've got nothing else to do at the moment!!


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## bobj808 (Sep 28, 2019)

To be fair, that just looks like a van with fixed windows. I got my Relay changed to a motorcaravan, but it had 4 opening side windows, 2 rooflights, TV aerial, external 240v socket, hot water gas vent, gas heater vent, graphics along side, rear and above windscreen. Passed first attempt. Some of the fotos sent to DVLA


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## Markd (Sep 28, 2019)

Agreed - when did you get it done?
Since they strengthened the visual criteria in June?


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## bobj808 (Sep 28, 2019)

No before that in 2017 but I spoke to them about our table as they said it had to be able to be fixed when in use. I didn't want to do this so got round it in my own way before sending the 20 photos. They said then it had to have the appearance of a campervan and quite clearly being used for that purpose. We do motocross and they seem to have a thing about these garage conversions! Law unto their own methinks. As an aside, we bought 2 new KTM motocross bikes which have V5s and Q numbers to help identification if stolen. I phoned DVLA and was told they needed to be SORNd. Sent off the 2 forms in one envelope and got 2 separate letters back saying they don't need to be SORNd. Bizarre. Bob.


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## Markd (Sep 28, 2019)

They have been much tougher this summer - it looks very much as if they are rejecting everything. 
Having said that your opening windows and roof lights combined with aerial and increased height do make it more likely. 
I wouldn't be surprised that the inability to stand in the OPs van may well not be helping.


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## colinm (Sep 28, 2019)

I think that it is now impossible to change the classification of a converted van to 'motorcaravan', I believe it now has to be 'van with windows' or some such classification.


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## Markd (Sep 28, 2019)

Technically they do accept motor caravan but they seem to be very reluctant to do it!
Here's their latest guidance revised in May this year.






						Internal features for motor caravans
					






					www.gov.uk
				




The daft thing is that if you make it into a motor caravan then you are obliged to have the V5C altered - but they won't do it!!


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## GreggBear (Sep 28, 2019)

Sent my log book off on Friday for reclassification. Covered all aspects they specify, but can't find any actual instruction as to what I need to do to make it "look like a motor caravan"
That seems to be the issue, it all comes down to the opinion of whoever opens your application. One person may pass it, another may reject it. Too many variables & too much room for personal interpretation. Good luck on your next attempt, got my fingers crossed for mine....


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## bobj808 (Sep 28, 2019)

I don't see anything that has changed from when I did it a couple of years ago. I think they want a camper van to look like a camper van, ie instantly recognisable as such as opposed to something that just wants to get round some of the speeding laws etc.  I sold mine off and buyer got a cracking good deal, not many able to convert to a 4 berth and still have room for a hot shower, albeit we had to lift the toilet out to do this!


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## colinm (Sep 28, 2019)

AFAIK the 'reluctance' to do it stems from the number of stolen vans being palmed off by this method. i.e. nick a Transit motorhome, buy a cheap commercial van of same age, change v5c to motorhome put plates on motorhome.


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## trevskoda (Sep 28, 2019)

bobj808 said:


> No before that in 2017 but I spoke to them about our table as they said it had to be able to be fixed when in use. I didn't want to do this so got round it in my own way before sending the 20 photos. They said then it had to have the appearance of a campervan and quite clearly being used for that purpose. We do motocross and they seem to have a thing about these garage conversions! Law unto their own methinks. As an aside, we bought 2 new KTM motocross bikes which have V5s and Q numbers to help identification if stolen. I phoned DVLA and was told they needed to be SORNd. Sent off the 2 forms in one envelope and got 2 separate letters back saying they don't need to be SORNd. Bizarre. Bob.


Thing is you are not allowed to carry m/bikes inside a camper,garage or otherwise,it has to be reg as a living van to do so,only the likes of deck chairs and the clobber that goes with camping can be put in a garage,ex a mobilty scooter.


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## groyne (Sep 28, 2019)

[QUOTEMaybe some vinyl declaring it to be a motor caravan will do the trick ][/QUOTE]

I didn't put Decals on either of the vans I've done and they both passed first time. Probably because I've put in at least one roof light and a shower vent on them.


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## Markd (Sep 28, 2019)

bobj808 said:


> I don't see anything that has changed from when I did it a couple of years ago. I think they want a camper van to look like a camper van, ie instantly recognisable as such as opposed to something that just wants to get round some of the speeding laws etc.  I sold mine off and buyer got a cracking good deal, not many able to convert to a 4 berth and still have room for a hot shower, albeit we had to lift the toilet out to do this!



You're right about the document - this year's change relates to describing new style V5.


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## madtheswine99 (Sep 29, 2019)

Markd said:


> Technically they do accept motor caravan but they seem to be very reluctant to do it!
> Here's their latest guidance revised in May this year.
> 
> 
> ...



I have done everything they have asked on the website, but it states absolutely nothing about the outside, getting really frustrated. Sent in a complaint, as I have done everything they have requested.


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

As you say there's no tick boxes about the outside, which allows a lot of subjectivity.
Plenty of contrast colour vents and inlet-outlet points like groyne shows might help?
As others have said maybe roof lights and opening windows?
What are your reasons for wanting reclassification? Speed limits? Insurance?
Anyway good luck with your appeal.


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## colinm (Sep 29, 2019)

Anybody reading my posts? I've answered the question, if you want further details look it up on OAL where one of the police who instigated the change posted the whys and wherefores.


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## madtheswine99 (Sep 29, 2019)

colinmd said:


> Anybody reading my posts? I've answered the question, if you want further details look it up on OAL where one of the police who instigated the change posted the whys and wherefores.



I have read your posts, but if you read the guide on Gov website it explains what you have to do. I have done this and more but still cannot get it changed. What is OAL? 
No need to be rude, it is a request for help and guidance.


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## trevskoda (Sep 29, 2019)

If you get it changed in log book its is tested same as car mot,if not then its tested as a com van which is much stricter.


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## madtheswine99 (Sep 29, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> If you get it changed in log book its is tested same as car mot,if not then its tested as a com van which is much stricter.



I know it is also cheaper on ferries as a camper instead of a van.


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

Colin
Any chance of a link to OutandAboutLive explanation?


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

madtheswine99 said:


> I know it is also cheaper on ferries as a camper instead of a van.


Others have found that some ferry companies charge for what they see rather than V5 classification.


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## colinm (Sep 29, 2019)

Markd said:


> Colin
> Any chance of a link to OutandAboutLive explanation?



I've had a quick search and can't find the thread, which is why I used the terms 'think' and 'believe' as I've had to rely on my memory of what was posted, but AFAIK the basic facts are as I've said. I was talking to someone a few weeks ago, he has a Tranny which he's converting and has found the same, DVLA will only now call it a 'van with windows' or similar term.


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## trevskoda (Sep 29, 2019)

colinmd said:


> I've had a quick search and can't find the thread, which is why I used the terms 'think' and 'believe' as I've had to rely on my memory of what was posted, but AFAIK the basic facts are as I've said. I was talking to someone a few weeks ago, he has a Tranny which he's converting and has found the same, DVLA will only now call it a 'van with windows' or similar term.


Yes thats correct and the way its going now,even big co find it troublesome.


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

Colin
I too couldn't find anything there - So with respect you haven't 'answered' the question(s) but have provided some good suggestions.
You could well be right of course - as others report and I wouldn't be surprised if DVLA have decided on blanket refusal.
In which case they should co.e clean and remove the requirement to reclassify upon conversion.


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## trevskoda (Sep 29, 2019)

Think they would have to give a lead time for folk half way through a conversion,say a year.


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## harrow (Sep 29, 2019)

I can see a problem with insurance where you have say 90 days to do the conversion from van to camper


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

The VW Transporter community is very exercised about this of course as minimal external changes in many cases.
But pop tops being refused as well.
Apparently new Californias are MPV now?
Suggestions that the stringency may be revenue related to preclude purchase of a new van sub £40k with later conversion to avoid c£3k VED.
You can tell that the weather's bad


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

I have found a reference to the police-cloning argument and it was in 2008.
So that may well explain the 2011 change requiring the conversion to look like a motorhome.
By all accounts DVLA were fairly tough to start of with then backed off.


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## Deleted member 79302 (Sep 29, 2019)

I got knocked back as well van with windows according to DVLA


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

DVLA have had loads of FOI enquiries and are beginning to come clean about not allowing any DIY conversion.

Here's a link to one of their responses.









						Specific requirements to address the V5C body type amendment to Motor Caravan component of external appearance - a Freedom of Information request to Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency
					

The gov.uk website (link below) provides advice on requirements needed by the DVLA to compete a V5C body type amendment to Motor Caravan.  https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/registering-a-diy-caravan/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motorhome  Contained in the second paragraph on this site is...




					www.whatdotheyknow.com
				




So it rather looks that you'd need to start with a flat bed and go coachbuilt before they'd accept it.


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

MaxusMicky said:


> I got knocked back as well van with windows according to DVLA View attachment 73798


I know that I won't be popular but I can see their point looking at this side.


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## Deleted member 79302 (Sep 29, 2019)

Markd said:


> I know that I won't be popular but I can see their point looking at this side.


If it wasn’t for the insurance I wouldn’t bother


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

You may be able to convince an insurance company that you do have motor caravan by demonstrating that you meet all the construction criteria and explain that DVLA are no longer reclassifying. 
By all accounts there are companies about that will go on functionality rather than V5C.


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## bobj808 (Sep 29, 2019)

Markd, I agree - probs unpopular as well  but I would describe OPs vehicle as a Tranny van, possibly a crew cab. Certainly wouldn't call it a campervan if asked by Police etc. However DVLA is unclear itself to the point of being evasive on what they expect of the exterior.


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## bobj808 (Sep 29, 2019)

MaxusMicky said:


> If it wasn’t for the insurance I wouldn’t bother


And the Class 4 MOT! I even got correspondence from DVLA when I changed mine to say the annual test was less rigorous than the Class 7


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## Markd (Sep 29, 2019)

DVLA are coming clean 'privately' - see my post a few up.
So unless there's a completely new body they won't play. 
Hopefully they will reinforce their public message soon and make it much clearer that there has to be a complete change to the body.


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## alcam (Sep 30, 2019)

bobj808 said:


> Markd, I agree - probs unpopular as well  but I would describe OPs vehicle as a Tranny van, possibly a crew cab. Certainly wouldn't call it a campervan if asked by Police etc. However DVLA is unclear itself to the point of being evasive on what they expect of the exterior.


Was never aware the exterior was required to look a certain way . My , factory converted , van has been resprayed and all decals , signage etc removed


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## Markd (Sep 30, 2019)

DVLA have to accept anything meeting motor caravan tech spec at first registration.
What owners do after that is up them.
However it would now seem that post registration conversions will have to have the appearance of coach built.
So PVC are out but luton bodied vans or ambulances may well be ok.


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## bobj808 (Sep 30, 2019)

Alcam, neither was I, agree it seems a grey area, but from info posted by Markd it appears DVLA  guidelines (new?) want the vehicle to be identifiable/described as a camper van by any joe out there. Our country is mad with rules, too many people employed by the Government with idle hands methinks.


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## alcam (Sep 30, 2019)

bobj808 said:


> Alcam, neither was I, agree it seems a grey area, but from info posted by Markd it appears DVLA  guidelines (new?) want the vehicle to be identifiable/described as a camper van by any joe out there. Our country is mad with rules, too many people employed by the Government with idle hands methinks.


Yes seems bizarre , pythonesque .
By the way how did you know my van was grey ?


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## Bigshug (Oct 1, 2019)

Vans are still being re-registered as motor caravans, but all the ones I have heard of being successful have caravan style windows fitted.


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## madtheswine99 (Oct 3, 2019)

This is the e-mail I have received from DVLA

We appreciate that you have taken the time to contact us with regards to this matter.


I am sorry but DVLA are unable to advise on what work needs to be carried out in order for a vehicle to be changed to a 'Motor Caravan' on the V5C Registration Certificate.

DVLA’s current policy for motor caravan conversions is that the vehicle has to look like a motor caravan externally *and* have the minimum features as listed on the gov.uk website. The Agency receives many requests to change a vehicle’s body type to motor caravan and these vehicles range in different shapes, sizes, and have various distinguishing features so we are unable to provide an exhaustive list of what we would expect to see on an application.

Some vehicles, such as those currently classified as ‘Luton Van’, ‘Box Van’ and ‘Double Decker Bus/Coach’ etc. are unlikely to have their body type changed on the V5C. However, it is important to remember that even if the DVLA are unable to change the body type to ‘Motor Caravan’, vehicle keepers are still able to use the vehicle for this purpose.

Regulation 16 of the _Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002_ (as amended) states the Secretary of State must update the vehicle register and issue a new registration document *if* he is satisfied that the vehicle has been altered in the way notified to him.

For us to consider the change of body type the exterior of the vehicle must look like a motor caravan while moving in traffic.

The DVLA are aware the guidance on the GOV.UK web page is inconsistent with the Agency’s definition of body type and we are working with the Department for Transport in taking steps to rectify this as soon as possible. Please accept our apologies for any confusion this has caused.

Customers can download a guide to motor caravan conversions by searching motorhome conversion on GOV.UK.

I trust that this information is of assistance.

Do not reply to this email. If you wish to contact us again about this response then please use our  reply form link or copy and paste the following URL in to your browser:



			https://live.email-dvla.service.gov.uk/w2c/en_GB/forms/Response?token=f4eed23ed674363e787f85620b03d9a0
		


Best Regards
C Harlin


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## trevskoda (Oct 3, 2019)

Its ok them saing ou can us it as a camper,but if one cannot get insurance then i see trouble,here in N Ireland ou have to show biz books as prof so as to get commercial cover,you cannot get priv soc dom cover here.


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## alcam (Oct 3, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Its ok them saing ou can us it as a camper,but if one cannot get insurance then i see trouble,here in N Ireland ou have to show biz books as prof so as to get commercial cover,you cannot get priv soc dom cover here.


'the exterior of the vehicle must look like a motor caravan while moving in traffic' ?
What does that even mean ?


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## harrow (Oct 3, 2019)




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## groyne (Oct 4, 2019)

That could be a mini bus or van with windows harrow.

And that's where the problem lies, most people think of a Motorcaravan as a big white coach built box, with at least a 6ft overhang at the back and an overcab bed, because that's what a motorhome is percieved to be.  If you ask anybody to draw one that's what most people would draw, and the DVLA agrees. Even signs to Aires and campsites promote this image. 
From now on, Campervans, Day vans, PVC conversions etc will all struggle to get reclassified, because according to the DVLA, the Police (it seems) don't want to have to make a conscious decision on what a particular vehicle is.


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## harrow (Oct 4, 2019)

groyne said:


> That could be a mini bus or van with windows harrow.
> 
> And that's where the problem lies, most people think of a Motorcaravan as a big white coach built box, with at least a 6ft overhang at the back and an overcab bed, because that's what a motorhome is percieved to be.  If you ask anybody to draw one that's what most people would draw, and the DVLA agrees. Even signs to Aires and campsites promote this image.
> From now on, Campervans, Day vans, PVC conversions etc will all struggle to get reclassified, because according to the DVLA, the Police (it seems) don't want to have to make a conscious decision on what a particular vehicle is.


You know what you need ?
The grey water tap open with the water running out as you drive down the road ?


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## Fazerloz (Oct 4, 2019)

It does say.
DVLA is required to record the details of vehicles for road safety and law enforcement. The body type information held on the vehicle record must describe what a vehicle actually looks like. This description, in addition to other distinguishing features, enables the police and other enforcement agencies to identify a particular vehicle. Therefore, the body type will not be changed unless the exterior of the vehicle actually appears to be a motor home.
To me your van still looks like it could be a working van with windows .  It needs far more and larger motorhome style graphics to meet what those with the rubber stamp want.
As for the complaint I wish you well, but don't hold your breath.


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## madtheswine99 (Oct 21, 2019)

Well the Gov website has been updated today, and I have submitted a change for my van again. Hopefully number 4 will be successful. It states the exterior should have Caravan style graphics, an awning and high top, although the last two are not required as long as it looks like a campervan. So hopefully this fits the bill.


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## st3v3 (Oct 21, 2019)

madtheswine99 said:


> Well the Gov website has been updated today, and I have submitted a change for my van again. Hopefully number 4 will be successful. It states the exterior should have Caravan style graphics, an awning and high top, although the last two are not required as long as it looks like a campervan. So hopefully this fits the bill.



This is what I found today:



> *Motor caravan external permanent features*
> 
> This list describes the external features which are commonly seen in motor caravans, and it is intended to provide guidance on what DVLA expects to see when considering your application:
> 
> ...



Do you have a second window on the drivers side? Also no awning/high top I wouldn't get your hopes up mate


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## colinm (Oct 21, 2019)

What frigging moron at DVLA decided you need a 'awning bar' to be a 'motor caravan', even the professionally converted vans rarely include these as standard.


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## Markd (Oct 21, 2019)

Have to agree with no awning over the door, only one window either side on body, no high top (nor pop-top not that it counts anyway)
I really don't think you stand much chance.

Turning to the requirements themselves - it is true that historically manufacturers tended to sell awnings as extras but most do have them. .maybe we'll see all PVCs have them as standard in the future?
An adult male being able to walk around Inside does make sense. As does having plenty of natural light.
A vit of sticky backed plastic is easy enough to arrange (and remove later?)


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## Floydster (Oct 21, 2019)

What about all the people (like me) who've very nearly finished but to the old requirements, ie one window!
Without a total redesign and undoing a lot of work we're stuffed.
There should at least been a time schedule in place before implementation to allow people to get their vans changed.


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## trevskoda (Oct 21, 2019)

Floydster said:


> What about all the people (like me) who've very nearly finished but to the old requirements, ie one window!
> Without a total redesign and undoing a lot of work we're stuffed.
> There should at least been a time schedule in place before implementation to allow people to get their vans changed.


Correct a time limit should have been set,i think a letter should go in if i were you.


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## alcam (Oct 21, 2019)

st3v3 said:


> This is what I found today:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a second window on the drivers side? Also no awning/high top I wouldn't get your hopes up mate


These external features requirements are one of the dumbest government documents I've ever read  .
Graphics , high topped roof , awning bar !
Worraloadapesh . I have none of the above


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## trevskoda (Oct 21, 2019)

MaxusMicky said:


> If it wasn’t for the insurance I wouldn’t bother


Cannot get it insured here unless for com work and you have to show biz books to prove,so unless its given as a motorcaravan in the log book all the work done is useless.


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## alcam (Oct 21, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Cannot get it insured here unless for com work and you have to show biz books to prove,so unless its given as a motorcaravan in the log book all the work done is useless.


So you can't just insure a van as a van ?


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## Markd (Oct 21, 2019)

The rules haven't changed - they're just being applied!
They've now provided guidelines which would have been helpful to have had sometime ago with notice of an introduction date.
Whilst i doubt they are going to be flexible it's always worth a try.


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## groyne (Oct 21, 2019)

> *Motor caravan external permanent features*
> 
> This list describes the external features which are commonly seen in motor caravans, and it is intended to provide guidance on what DVLA expects to see when considering your application:
> 
> ...



Another copout from the DVLA, why are they only providing guidance? Do they expect to see all of these features , or just one or two?
 Why haven't they included other features commonly seen on motorhomes, such as Status Aerial or a satellite dish, skylight, extractor vent, solar panel, fridge vents, cassette access door, Gas bottle access door, bike rack or even a big green "W" sticker.


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## Markd (Oct 21, 2019)

As they don't say some or 'X of' then we can take it that they are looking for all of them.
The only real 'extra' is the awning bar - this could probably be a length of 100mm drain pipe in a photo if you didn't want one that worked! 
The other suggestions in your list add to the effect but not everyone would want them all so DVLA have omitted them rather than including with a 'may' category.
Added to which the requirement is for plod to recognise a camper on the move so smallish blended details wouldn't be instantly picked up.


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## TeamRienza (Oct 21, 2019)

Time for a bit of photoshop I think.

Davy


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## groyne (Oct 21, 2019)

> As they don't say some or 'X of' then we can take it that they are looking for all of them.



Then that sounds the death knell for "Day vans".



> A high-top roof (this does not include a pop-top elevating roof).



Madtheswine99's van and others like it will never be re classified as Motorcaravans.


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## trevskoda (Oct 21, 2019)

alcam said:


> So you can't just insure a van as a van ?


No unless com work and have biz books to prove,if you could paddy would be doing work with it on the qt so its a no no last time i tried,cost £700 and psv mot rather than car type as with a proper motoercaravan in log book.


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## Deleted member 79302 (Oct 21, 2019)

Thats


trevskoda said:


> Cannot get it insured here unless for com work and you have to show biz books to prove,so unless its given as a motorcaravan in the log book all the work done is useless.


thats mental ****


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## alcam (Oct 21, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> No unless com work and have biz books to prove,if you could paddy would be doing work with it on the qt so its a no no last time i tried,cost £700 and psv mot rather than car type as with a proper motoercaravan in log book.





trevskoda said:


> No unless com work and have biz books to prove,if you could paddy would be doing work with it on the qt so its a no no last time i tried,cost £700 and psv mot rather than car type as with a proper motoercaravan in log book.


Hard to get my head round this . 
So you've got loads of dogs and want a van instead of a car you can't ?
Is this the same in the UK ?
Oops sorry NI is still in UK !


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## trevskoda (Oct 21, 2019)

alcam said:


> Hard to get my head round this .
> So you've got loads of dogs and want a van instead of a car you can't ?
> Is this the same in the UK ?
> Oops sorry NI is still in UK !


Vans are for com use only as in log book,so psv test and com insurance,estate cars for dogs etc and thats why i had one for 15 years.
Things may or may not have changed as we can now get stuff insured from mainland which up to a few years ago was impossable,we paid about 4 time mainland rate.


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## harrow (Oct 22, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Vans are for com use only as in log book,so psv test and com insurance,estate cars for dogs etc and thats why i had one for 15 years.
> Things may or may not have changed as we can now get stuff insured from mainland which up to a few years ago was impossable,we paid about 4 time mainland rate.


About 20 years ago we could not insure a van unless we were listed as a trader however now quoting as being retired it seems possible, not cheap but it is possible, easier than insuring an ex london taxi.


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## madtheswine99 (Oct 22, 2019)

st3v3 said:


> This is what I found today:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a second window on the drivers side? Also no awning/high top I wouldn't get your hopes up mate



As with any vehicle it has 4 sides, bit like a box, it doesn't state which side has to have two windows and mine has two windows on the back side.


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## Caz (Oct 22, 2019)

Under these new rules oops sorry guidelines my Autosleeper Trooper wouldn't qualify - pop top roof, no decals on the side and no awning. Good job it already says motor caravan on the V5.


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## trevskoda (Oct 22, 2019)

harrow said:


> About 20 years ago we could not insure a van unless we were listed as a trader however now quoting as being retired it seems possible, not cheap but it is possible, easier than insuring an ex london taxi.


Still has to do a PSV here as its still com vh in log book,im lucky my box has been a motorcaravan for 10 years now on Log Book.


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## Markd (Oct 22, 2019)

madtheswine99 said:


> As with any vehicle it has 4 sides, bit like a box, it doesn't state which side has to have two windows and mine has two windows on the back side.


Nice try! Actually a box has 6 faces - why dont you tell them there are two windows on the underside or put two roof lights on the top side or put a split screen in the front?
It would be no problem to stick a small window into one side if you do want to follow the 'guidelines'
Your main problem is the roof I'm afraid and that's a significant problem with no quick fix.


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## Markd (Oct 22, 2019)

Caz said:


> Under these new rules oops sorry guidelines my Autosleeper Trooper wouldn't qualify - pop top roof, no decals on the side and no awning. Good job it already says motor caravan on the V5.


It'll be interesting to see whether first registration dayvans get caught but I think the main focus is conversions rather than original manufacture.


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## CarlandHels (Oct 22, 2019)

madtheswine99 said:


> View attachment 73740
> View attachment 73739
> 
> View attachment 73737View attachment 73738View attachment 73737View attachment 73738View attachment 73739View attachment 73740
> ...


We saw you guys parked up in Harrogate last week. Your van shouts out camper. Can't understand this government's rules...


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## madtheswine99 (Oct 26, 2019)

madtheswine99 said:


> Well the Gov website has been updated today, and I have submitted a change for my van again. Hopefully number 4 will be successful. It states the exterior should have Caravan style graphics, an awning and high top, although the last two are not required as long as it looks like a campervan. So hopefully this fits the bill.



Well got the letter today and they have refused it for the fourth time now, so bo*****s to them. Taking all the graphics off and just make it look like a van, and a criminal, that's what they are inferring. Really frustrated.


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## Deleted member 83226 (Oct 27, 2019)

I don't understand all the fine details of this, other than feeling really depressed.

But if I've got the gist, the DVLA are saying that it's essential that a campervan must look like a campervan, for the police to do their job properly and muh stuff?

If that's the case, why isn't this retrospective? There must be thousands of vehicles registered as motor caravans that don't conform with these stupid rules - like mine.

And as many of you have suggested, a plan is to put decals and awnings on and stuff, get the re-registrations, and then take the decals and awning off.

If it's so important that the police can identify these evil hidden campervans, it would be retrospective AND you'd have to resubmit every year AND it would be offence to be caught by the police in a motor caravan that doesn't look like one. Is this their end goal?

There's something really off about all this, but I don't understand it well enough to know what's wrong.


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## colinm (Oct 27, 2019)

ITMA said:


> I don't understand all the fine details of this, other than feeling really depressed.
> 
> But if I've got the gist, the DVLA are saying that it's essential that a campervan must look like a campervan, for the police to do their job properly and muh stuff?
> 
> ...



As I posted on first page, this was initiated by the police in an attempt to stop the cloning of stolen motorhomes as converted vans, unfortunately the DVLA seem to have completely messed up.


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## Markd (Oct 27, 2019)

Apparently there have been over 20,000 applications in the last 12 months.
This is a significant increase but over the last 7 years since they introduced the "look like a campervan" rules one might expect 100,000 vehicles to have been reclassified.
So retrospective checking would be an enormous task.
No doubt any they sought to change back would be appealed on the basis that photos had been provided and a decision against unchanged wording had been made.

Let's be clear - all that's changed is that "guidelines" have been issued along with a list of vehicle types deemed to be an acceptable base for conversion.


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## Deleted member 83226 (Oct 27, 2019)

Thanks Colin I did read your original post but it got lost in my cluttered up mind. I think I've got it.

Some fraudsters use conversion as a way of selling stolen vehicles => ban everybody from making conversions.

Brilliant plan.

Clown cars have never been used in armed robberies. I hear the DVLA are considering only issuing V5s in future to clown cars, to prevent armed robberies.







_New DVLA "Guidelines" for car registration, effective 1 November 2019. Tick all four of "Red Nose (minimum radius 30cm); Garish Patterns (minimum 3 colours, grey not permitted); Big Hat (must be permanently affixed, preferably explodes with confetti everywhere if you press a hidden button); Wheels fall off after 3 metres (must also conform to MoT requirements).". Internal features - must be tiny and yet inconceivably be able to store 19 clowns. Pierrot clowns do not qualify as they are scary and not British._

*NOTE: Bow ties are NOT permitted. The following vehicle would not be permitted.*








Those "guidelines" prevent many genuine conversions. How many Bongos or Hiaces have high tops? Or want them?


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## Markd (Oct 27, 2019)

The guidelines in themselves don't prevent conversion - merely whether the converter wants the change the change of classification.


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## REC (Oct 28, 2019)

We have given up and accepted van with windows status. As long as our insurance and cost of road tax are not affected, we will remain converted on the inside only! If the road tax changes ( is it less for a a motor caravan...can't work it out!) we might give it one more go. Annoying to think there would have been no problem in 2017 as ops have demonstrated , with no awning or two windows on one side! However, we will be parking on streets that say no motor caravans since we don't qualify as one and a number plate check with visual from police would confirm this


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## ricc (Oct 28, 2019)

surely the only need to easily distinguish between van and conversion is on the speed camera pics?      i guess manually checking the status of every speeding white van would be a tad tedious and getting computer software to do it too blindingly obvious


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## trevskoda (Oct 28, 2019)

REC said:


> We have given up and accepted van with windows status. As long as our insurance and cost of road tax are not affected, we will remain converted on the inside only! If the road tax changes ( is it less for a a motor caravan...can't work it out!) we might give it one more go. Annoying to think there would have been no problem in 2017 as ops have demonstrated , with no awning or two windows on one side! However, we will be parking on streets that say no motor caravans since we don't qualify as one and a number plate check with visual from police would confirm this


Think you will be ok as long as not com use on log book.


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## colinm (Oct 28, 2019)

ricc said:


> surely the only need to easily distinguish between van and conversion is on the speed camera pics?      i guess manually checking the status of every speeding white van would be a tad tedious and getting computer software to do it too blindingly obvious



As I posted, DVLA have completely missed the reason for tightening up on requirements, take my van, made by a mainstream manufacturer and fully meets the guidelines, but there is no way from the outside of telling the unladen weight so nobody with can visually tell what speed limits I need to adhere to.


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## yorkslass (Oct 28, 2019)

REC said:


> We have given up and accepted van with windows status. As long as our insurance and cost of road tax are not affected, we will remain converted on the inside only! If the road tax changes ( is it less for a a motor caravan...can't work it out!) we might give it one more go. Annoying to think there would have been no problem in 2017 as ops have demonstrated , with no awning or two windows on one side! However, we will be parking on streets that say no motor caravans since we don't qualify as one and a number plate check with visual from police would confirm this


So, in effect, they have shot themselves, well council's, in the foot. All the notices banning motor caravans no longer apply to self builds, Result,


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## GreggBear (Oct 28, 2019)

Gotta wonder what their next move will be to close that loophole....


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## Deleted member 83226 (Oct 28, 2019)

Markd said:


> The guidelines in themselves don't prevent conversion - merely whether the converter wants the change the change of classification.



But it is going to cause people lots of problems getting reasonable insurance. You seem to not be able to understand that this is likely going to be at best very inconvenient for lots of individuals and businesses.


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## Markd (Oct 28, 2019)

I do understand that insurance may cost more or take a bit of shopping round.
I merely make the point that converters now now exactly where they stand and can make an informed decision.


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## ricc (Oct 28, 2019)

Markd said:


> I do understand that insurance may cost more or take a bit of shopping round.
> I merely make the point that converters now now exactly where they stand and can make an informed decision.


ive just had the renewal through for my iveco panel van, (high top med wheelbase) 254 quid,  last months renewal on the nissan xtrail was 270,  went on meerkats and knocked 100 off, so im expecting similar on the van.


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## Drover (Oct 28, 2019)

Your preferred vehicle must have cooking, sleeping and sanitary fitments. The vehicle must comply with all safety gas legislation and be roadworthy.

Preferred base vehicle would be a panel van with adequate ventilation to meet the standards needed for you to use a heater and a cooker. Basic canvas extensions attached to the vehicle are acceptable but again they must meet site safety standards. Mostly these vehicles are produced to accommodate people as a stepping-stone to larger units. 

Professional panel van conversions will comply with all necessary legislation regarding safety and have all the necessary equipment built in at time of conversion. But they are still built on a commercial van chassis. 

Smaller vans in the courier class also are converted with a large back and of course all the previous points as to safety apply. 

This is the minimum requirement to reg with the motorcaravaners club.


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## Markd (Oct 28, 2019)

ricc said:


> ive just had the renewal through for my iveco panel van, (high top med wheelbase) 254 quid,  last months renewal on the nissan xtrail was 270,  went on meerkats and knocked 100 off, so im expecting similar on the van.


That's a result.


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## trevskoda (Oct 28, 2019)

GreggBear said:


> Gotta wonder what their next move will be to close that loophole....


Only motorbikes allowed in car parks.


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## GreggBear (Oct 28, 2019)

Stealth motorcycle camper, I wonder....


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## ricc (Oct 29, 2019)

GreggBear said:


> Stealth motorcycle camper, I wonder....


try googling sidecar camper conversion...... i found a hearse


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## GreggBear (Oct 29, 2019)

Side car camper | Motorcycle campers, Sidecar, Motorcycle sidecar
					

Apr 9, 2014 - This Pin was discovered by Renee Whitrick. Discover (and save!) your own Pins on Pinterest




					pin.it
				



Like this a lot, but hardly stealth is it?


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## trevskoda (Oct 29, 2019)

ricc said:


> try googling sidecar camper conversion...... i found a hearse


Dead on chum.


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