# lpg gas tanks



## brian sutton (Dec 11, 2009)

any one know where i can find someone to fit a lpg gas tank underneath a motor home. perferably in the south west?


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## vera (Dec 11, 2009)

*LPG tanks*

Go-Autogas - LPG Station Map with Refuelling Garages on Map with LPG Prices and Sat Nav Download


Hi try doing a search on this site.We did visit the dealer in Carlton Minniot near Thirsk which is local to us. Very friendly guy. Think they allow overnight stay whilst fitting.
We eventually went for 2-11kg Gaslow bottles 
Sue


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## l77 tuf (Dec 11, 2009)

we do our own its really easy the hardest bit is getting a tank and modifying to suit vapour draw not fluid draw but we do this quit quick now i done my own 2 weeks ago with my dad 

please dont babble on about health+saftey im english not from over the water and sick of them 2 words its my life and if i  blow my self up thast my problem nobody elses 

there is no law for fitting yourself to your motorhome/van/caravan/campervan


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## runnach (Dec 11, 2009)

l77 tuf said:


> please dont babble on about health+saftey im english not from over the water and sick of them 2 words its my life and if i  blow my self up thast my problem nobody elses
> /QUOTE]
> 
> I never realised that the English had a superior knowledge of H & S
> ...


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## l77 tuf (Dec 12, 2009)

quite true and i dont want my taxes/ni to pay for it thats why i went to college for 5 yrs to understand engineering and how things work so i have the know now and how to do thinks and sure as eggs are eggs i dont want some pen pusher ramming down my neck that i wont/carnt do somethink cos that makes  me more deturmind to do it 

so if you get all the bits together like i did the total cost of the instullation was £110 with the lpg sticker to keep in with the english over the top health+saftey laws we have over here just so the emergency services know it will blow up


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## l77 tuf (Dec 12, 2009)

we havnt got a superior knowlodge of h+s we get led by euro land who do not do as they say 

e.g spanish buliding site do you see builders wearing
hardhats
saftey boots
gloves
eye wear 
breathing masks

no to all the above but over here it takes bulders 10 times longer to do something cos they have to do all these cos euro land say so but spanish can get away with it 

so were is the do as i say not as i do policy there its all bloody wrong


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## runnach (Dec 12, 2009)

l77 tuf said:


> we havnt got a superior knowlodge of h+s we get led by euro land who do not do as they say
> 
> e.g spanish buliding site do you see builders wearing
> hardhats
> ...



Got to agree with you we do push it, when it comes to dotting the 'i's and crossing 't's.
Last year I was working for an English company in the Dordogne, and part of my job was to do a health and safety assessment because we had English visitors.

Firstly I would question my qualifications to do so, So in all honesty Just looked for the obvious things like bare wires etc etc.

And I have to agree, to say the French attitude was indifferent would be an understatement.

My original post was a bit toungue in cheek, I would agree have a go at doing things yourself, I think most people know their limits.

Channa


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## AndyC (Dec 12, 2009)

channa said:


> My original post was a bit toungue in cheek, I would agree have a go at doing things yourself, I think most people know their limits.
> 
> Channa


A lot of the much criticised legislation is to protect the rest of us from people who don't know their limits.

I have to say that much of this talk of DIY LPG tank installation scares me. If people have the training, qualifications, experience, no problem, but there will no doubt be others who think that they can do it without any experience or training. We are dealing with an inflammable gas in pipework at a pressure of up to 150psi on a vehicle that is subject to vibration and stresses. It's all too easy to under or over-tighten a connection, use the wrong type of sealant, etc., and quite possibly none of it will ever be checked.

It's true that there is no UK legislation which regulates DIY LPG installations, no requirement for any qualifications, or any check on the safety of DIY work. But it may only take one serious incident for that to change.

AndyC


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## runnach (Dec 12, 2009)

AndyC said:


> A lot of the much criticised legislation is to protect the rest of us from people who don't know their limits.



True, I for one, would never attempt anything to do with gas or electrics( especially domestic), I simply dont understand them.

Legislation or not, there will always be someone who does attempt work way beyond their ability and then tragedy occurs.

Then there is always the people who bend legislation. 

A friend recently refurbished her kitchen, and the fella that did it was quite happy to undertake the gas work moving boilers etc. It turned out  he wasn't corgi registered but had a mate who was....He suggested doing the work and his mate checking it !!!...I personally thought the idea was frought with danger.

I think L77tuf does have a point re our zealousness to work to the letter of directives.

Does that make us right or wrong ? or our continental cousins ?

Channa


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## The Grand Wanderer (Dec 12, 2009)

*LPG Systems*

Hi All,
Personally I draw a distinction between the DIY fitting a LPG system and the construction of the tank itself. The tank is a pressure vessel and must be tested every ten years by an authorised tester and a certificate issued.  It is important because if a home made tank is not tested then your insurance may be invalid. Thus should you have missfortune to need to call on the emergency services YOU may end up paying for them out of your estate. 
However buying the tank, piping and associated fittings from an authorised supplier and after installation having a pressure drop test performed and then annaully as part of your annual servicing I don't see a problem.
I would suggest that only those confident at DIY would comtemplate such a project and thus are well aware of the risks involved.
I recently changed my van and had my system transfered from the old van to the new. This was done by the dealer which raises the question do all the dealers that we use have the right qualifications to test the gas system. Having said all that, those of us that still use normal bottles have to ensure that they have connected them correctly and that there are no leaks, I guess you pays your money and takes your chance. 
On a different note I would suggest that under-slung tanks constructed of mild steel will be subject to all the wet and dirt from the road splashing up on them and thus will be prone to corrosion much quicker than tanks constructed from stainless steel or aluminium.
Regards,
Wanderer


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## AndyC (Dec 12, 2009)

The Grand Wanderer said:


> However buying the tank, piping and associated fittings from an authorised supplier and after installation having a pressure drop test performed and then annaully as part of your annual servicing I don't see a problem.


However there is no 'requirement' for an annual check of the gas system in the UK, in Germany LPG systems must be officially checked every 3 years I think. If there was a similar requirement in the UK I wouldn't be so concerned.


> I would suggest that only those confident at DIY would comtemplate such a project and thus are well aware of the risks involved.


I would think that is quite likely the case, but there is always going to be someone who attempts to go beyond his level of competence.


> I recently changed my van and had my system transfered from the old van to the new. This was done by the dealer which raises the question do all the dealers that we use have the right qualifications to test the gas system.


It would be a very foolhardy dealer who didn't ensure that he had properly qualified staff. In the event of an incident he could well find himself without insurance cover, and in a worst case, in a coroners court having to explain himself.


> Having said all that, those of us that still use normal bottles have to ensure that they have connected them correctly and that there are no leaks, I guess you pays your money and takes your chance.


At least when you change a standard bottle you check for leaks and have a quick look at the connections - a refillable system may well be fitted and then hardly ever looked at again.


> On a different note I would suggest that under-slung tanks constructed of mild steel will be subject to all the wet and dirt from the road splashing up on them and thus will be prone to corrosion much quicker than tanks constructed from stainless steel or aluminium.


All the more reason for regular checks!

AndyC


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## maingate (Dec 12, 2009)

There is nothing in legislation to stop you putting a system together.

ie: Fitting the tank?bottle.
    Piping it up
    Fixing it to the vehicle structure.

What you must never do is to connect the system to the LPG source.

The final part must be done by a competent person who checks over the whole system and passes it off and issues a gas safety certificate. He must not only gas registered but also LPG gas certified.

If you do it any other way then there is nobody else to blame but yourself if things go wrong. I am speaking as someone who has done some Heath Robinson lash ups in my time but after a working lifetime in engineering, I have my boundaries, especially with pressure vessels and highly flammable gases.


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## The Grand Wanderer (Dec 12, 2009)

*LPG Systems*

Aye tis a MINE field and no mistake.
Guess these things are legal until our Great Leaders decide otherwise.
Still if they are so fraught with problems and danger why do we see them at every motorhome show freely available to all and sundry.
At the end of the day it is up to each and every one of us to ensure that our vans are up to scratch, safe for us and our loved ones to use, and not a danger to others.
As you point out there will always be those who do not care what effect their actions may have on others, they are however thankfully in a minority.
I stand by my original post as I was merely supporting those who wished to fit their own systems in a proper mannor.
However we are going off piste as the first post enquired if we knew of any suppliers/fitters in the SW who would fit a system for him.
Wanderer


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## l77 tuf (Dec 12, 2009)

i agree with everything you say like you say if you are competent to do the istulation then do it and get it tested as you can get all the bits from the web no problem even big lpg companys will supply  the kit without question look at pervious posts on it 

these tanks are made from 6mm thisk steel you can hit it with a sledge hammer all day long full of lpg to its max psi there is only 26 bar in the tank when full witch is not a lot really when you work on 500 bar hydraulic systems i agree its id dangarous if you dont know what you are doing 

e.g would you weld a bracket on a lpg tank when its empty 
my answer is no i wouldnt 

do you look after your brakes on your van 
my answer is yes cos  i know i can do a better job than a iveco dealership not putting the dealer down but i can and poss a lot less price involved useing better quality products 

if your brakes fail after the dealer has fixed them whos to blaim i think you will find there not to blaim even if they are to blaim in your eyes they will wriggle out of it and blaim a part they havnt touched 

these lpg tanks that are underslung/spare wheel tanks 

4 hole tanks should we say have 3 safteys on them so its inpossible to overload  it with lpg damage it with a brick or even if a pipe bursed there  is saftey everwere on the system even down to the filler on the side of the van has a 1 way valve on it so nothing can escape from anywere 

so to pay a fella who is gas safe to test it you are throwing money down the drain its a load of crax belive me the only place it can leak from is the pipework after the tank to your applainces after the regulator


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## suej (Dec 12, 2009)

l77 tuf said:


> belive me the only place it can leak from is the pipework after the tank to your applainces after the regulator



I'd like to but.. in June we were parked up on an aires in France next to an English van that had an underslung gas tank. While we sitting outside taking in some rays the testicnal one in our van, who has a very keen nose, smelt gas from the next door van and it was coming from a pin hole in the tank itself.


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## Deleted member 967 (Dec 12, 2009)

maingate said:


> The final part must be done by a competent person who checks over the whole system and passes it off and issues a gas safety certificate. He must not only gas registered but also LPG gas certified.
> 
> If you do it any other way then there is nobody else to blame but yourself if things go wrong. I am speaking as someone who has done some Heath Robinson lash ups in my time but after a working lifetime in engineering, I have my boundaries, especially with pressure vessels and highly flammable gases.



I had a tank fitted by a so called competent person and certified as safe.  I travelled 100s of miles to have the work done as the company had had a good write up in a Magazine and was well known.  Now no longer trading.  In Spain so I hear.

When we got there he didn't have the ordered tank in stock but fitted a smaller one without telling us until the job was done.  They tested the system and we filled the tank with gas.  I smelt gas and was told it was just the smell from the old regulator which was still in the gas locker.  Still smelling next morning after having overnighted in the van at his depot.  Retested and declared OK

Went from there to have the gas generator fitted and had a night on a CC site just outside of Birmingham.  

When the fitter checked the system it was leaking gas from the joint where the new pipework joined the old.  The work was repaired by this firm and he was notified.
Anyway.  The gauge would not work and I was asked to take it to the Pickering show so he could look at it and fix the problem.  Arrived at the show on Friday evening and contacted him.  Went three times to his stand on Saturday.  Sunday morning my wife got sick and went to the stand and started harassing him.  We told him we were leaving at Lunch time.  11:55  he arrived with another man.  They took one look at the tank and said it had been fitted incorrectly there is a cross that shows the tanks horizontal and vertical position.  This instead of being in the right place was under the tank.  The tank had been designed for outlet on the right and fitted with outlet on the left, or something like that.  Our daughter wrote to him threatening legal action (Solicitor).  We then went back to his depot to have a new tank fitted.  No sign of the guy that fitted the original tank and the owner removed the tank (Half Full) and fitted a new tank to the original order specification.

No smell of gas this time and everything seems to be working.  This man and his employee had certificates on the wall saying they were qualified in LPG installation and testing.  HA.


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## maingate (Dec 12, 2009)

Hi John,

There have been reports about fly by night companies like the one that caught you. There are cowboys in every branch of business unfortunately.

Just imagine how bad it could get without any regulation.

177tuf,

By your calculations, there is approx 390 lbs psi sitting in a 6 mm thick tank under the vehicle. In a collision, it will be ripped apart like cardboard. Thanks for making up my mind for me, there will never be a time bomb under my van. Gaslow or similar for me then.


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## AndyC (Dec 12, 2009)

maingate said:


> By your calculations, there is approx 390 lbs psi sitting in a 6 mm thick tank under the vehicle. In a collision, it will be ripped apart like cardboard. Thanks for making up my mind for me, there will never be a time bomb under my van. Gaslow or similar for me then.


In fact purpose-made LPG tanks are reported to be safer than petrol tanks, and there are millions of those travelling around our roads.

AndyC


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## AndyC (Dec 12, 2009)

John Thompson said:


> I had a tank fitted by a so called competent person and certified as safe.  I travelled 100s of miles to have the work done as the company had had a good write up in a Magazine and was well known.  Now no longer trading.  In Spain so I hear.


You are referring to Richard Cecil of MTH in the Forest of Dean?

He did have a very good reputation for competent work but something went seriously wrong - no idea what - and it all went downhill. I also heard reports about poor workmanship.

It's the same in any trade,  no amount of regulation is going to 100% guarantee  that there won't be some bad'uns about.

AndyC


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## Deleted member 967 (Dec 12, 2009)

maingate said:


> Hi John,
> 
> There have been reports about fly by night companies like the one that caught you. There are cowboys in every branch of business unfortunately.
> 
> ...



That was the trouble Maingate.  It was not a fly by night company and up to that point I had never heard a bad word about their workmanship.  Andy was correct in identifying the business.

What ever the trouble was I do not know.  He was also going into conversion work and was displaying vans at Peterborough as well as tanks and refillable bottles.  He was also the supplier for Alugas cylinders.

You are welcome to have a look at my installation and see how safe it is.  I prefer it to loose bottles (even tied down ones) that are connected by flexible hoses.  I have seen them rolling along the road after an accident.  As Andy says LPG tanks are far safer than petrol tanks.   

My wife's car had the petrol tank stabbed last winter by a screwdriver.  Now that was a time bomb as we didn't realise it was damaged and were driving along with petrol spilling onto the rear of the exhaust.  That was a straight cut with a flat bladed screwdriver to steal a can of petrol and let the rest run away under the vehicle.

I worked in the caravan trade at one time and fitted gas appliances and tested systems before the new regulations came in.  I feel confident to work on my van but because of insurance implications I now leave the work to others to do and certify.  I also did a full rewire of the house myself, but also got that certified by a competent qualified electrician.


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## Kontiki (Dec 13, 2009)

l77 tuf said:


> there is only 26 bar in the tank when full witch is not a lot really when you work on 500 bar hydraulic systems i agree its id dangarous if you dont know what you are doing



26bar = 377.0981psi this is still a fair pressure if something did burst.

I consider myself reasonably competent to do most jobs having been in engineering all my working life (8 years in a chemical plant where we had some really dangerous stuff) if anything I am over cautious, I always make sure I have full knowledge of what I am dealing with & the correct procedures required & would never attempt any job if I thought it was beyond my capabilities. Fitting a refillable gas cylinder is pretty easy & the only potential danger I could see is the fitting of the external filling hose as any leak from this while filling is under high pressure. The rest is only the same as changing a normal bottle so no less dangerous. 
Fitting external tanks does mean a bit more competence, the tank needs to be secured & there is a minimum ground clearance of 10" recommended. More pipework means more possible problems with leaks & the need to make sure that the pipes aren't rubbing against anything that could wear through them. 

If you get a habitation check done this should include a gas check, I got a certificate showing my system is ok. 
I think that eventually we will fall in line with other EU countries & make the gas check compulsory on motorhomes & caravans. Hopefully it is not brought about by a increased number of accidents involving LPG


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## biggirafe (Dec 13, 2009)

Kontiki said:


> 26bar = 377.0981psi this is still a fair pressure if something did burst.
> 
> I consider myself reasonably competent to do most jobs having been in engineering all my working life (8 years in a chemical plant where we had some really dangerous stuff) if anything I am over cautious, I always make sure I have full knowledge of what I am dealing with & the correct procedures required & would never attempt any job if I thought it was beyond my capabilities. Fitting a refillable gas cylinder is pretty easy & the only potential danger I could see is the fitting of the external filling hose as any leak from this while filling is under high pressure. The rest is only the same as changing a normal bottle so no less dangerous.
> Fitting external tanks does mean a bit more competence, the tank needs to be secured & there is a minimum ground clearance of 10" recommended. More pipework means more possible problems with leaks & the need to make sure that the pipes aren't rubbing against anything that could wear through them.
> ...



For me the choice of a refillable bottle and not a tank was to do with the resale. When I sell I don't expect I will get any premium because I have a refillable bottle so I intend to take it with me. When fitting I do not need any checks to be made on the system. When its removed the van is as it was before I fitted it.

If I had an external tank fitted again I'm not sure I would be able to get the cost back. Unless it was profesionally fitted it may cause issues selling it, I know myself if I was looking at a van and the seller told me it had an externally fitted LPG tank I would want to know who fitted it and does it have any paperwork.

Don't get me wrong I have nothing against exteranlly fitted tanks either self fit or professional this is just the things that made me stick with the refillable bottle


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## Kontiki (Dec 13, 2009)

My reasons were similar although I did intend to fit a tank & went to FES to see what size I could fit. If I could have got about a 50 litre one I probably would have gone for it. The price between the sizes isn't much & I found that I couldn't get anything bigger than a 20 litre one anywhere under the van. It was then a no brainer as the fixed tank was more expensive than the cylinder & the size was the same. Like you I intend to take this one with me when we change the van. As we tour around Europe a bit the cost side is possibly less important than the convenience of being able to fill up rather than switching bottles.
Up to now I have used 132.5 litres (+ a full 20 litres in the cylinder at the moment) in a year, in my last van I used 182 litres in 18 months. So that must work out at about 60 kgs so about 5-6 refills. Not sure of the total cost but looking at my spreadsheet the most I paid was 54 pence or 64 cents around Europe.


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## davejen (Dec 13, 2009)

Hi, everyone, I had a fitted lpg tank on my last m/home, which was 9 yrs of age- meaning that it would need to be tested next year. I was a bit concerned about the condition of the tank dure to rust/ corrosion so I rang a supplier of tanks to see where I could get it tested- result -NOWHERE- and the last place that did tests charged MORE than the price of a NEW TANK!, Since then   swapped the m/home for another, with cylinders. I am thinking of having a tank fitted at a later date as I think they are safer than cylinders.
Cheers, Dave


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