# Michilin tyres again



## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

Just got back from the MOT station with an advisory for all 4 tyres. Side wall cracks. Michilin camping tyres(again). This is the 3rd camper this has happened to me. What brand do you guys recomend as Michilin as just lost another long term customer.....me. Has anyone got any cheap contacts for tyres?


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## 888dee (Aug 22, 2009)

have a look at tyres online @ mytyres.co.uk: cheap passenger tyres, summer tyres, winter tyres and tyre dealer I've not bought van tyre from them but have on several occasions for cars.

if nothing else it gives an easy way to compare price points and gives access to reviews against each.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 22, 2009)

*Tyres*

Oily how old are the tyres  date on side wall of tyre

Alf


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## Boxerman (Aug 22, 2009)

oily said:


> Has anyone got any cheap contacts for tyres?



Don't skimp on tyres, your life and possibly the lives of your family depend on them. 
I use Conti Vanco's not madly expensive being a commercial tyre.

Frank


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

Boxerman said:


> Don't skimp on tyres, your life and possibly the lives of your family depend on them.
> I use Conti Vanco's not madly expensive being a commercial tyre.
> 
> Frank



lol. I'm asking for cheap contacts for tyres NOT contacts for cheap tyres


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## kenjones (Aug 22, 2009)

oily said:


> Just got back from the MOT station with an advisory for all 4 tyres. Side wall cracks. Michilin camping tyres(again). This is the 3rd camper this has happened to me. What brand do you guys recomend as Michilin as just lost another long term customer.....me. Has anyone got any cheap contacts for tyres?



 Boxerman is right. I had my VW Autosleeper Topaz fitted with  conti vanco's
all round and I'm very pleased with them. Grip, road noise and fuel consumption are all noticably improved. Now with 10,000 miles on wear seems minimal.
It just isn't worth skimping on tyres.


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

Alf 1 said:


> Oily how old are the tyres  date on side wall of tyre
> 
> Alf



Havent checked but I guess they might be the originals. Done 35000 miles on the old 2001 camper but still got 7 or 8mm of tread, that's the annoying thing.


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

kenjones said:


> It just isn't worth skimping on tyres.



see my reply to boxerman
I hav heard that Barum tyres perform quite well and apprently are made by conti. Can anyone confirm?


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## derekfaeberwick (Aug 22, 2009)

The boss had a set of Marangoni tyres fitted to the drive axle of the artic I drive, I know, thats what I thought.
  Guess what, they are brilliant for traction. Longevity, I'll have to wait and see.
  The point being don't dismiss budget tyres out of hand, suck it and see.


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## Solwaybuggier (Aug 22, 2009)

oily said:


> Havent checked but I guess they might be the originals. Done 35000 miles on the old 2001 camper but still got 7 or 8mm of tread, that's the annoying thing.



Isn't standard advice to replace tyres at 5 years regardless of make?  So if yours got to 8 years (or more depending on when the base was made) you've not done so bad...

I dug out this link though:   Cheap Tyre Prices | Dunlop Goodyear Pirelli | Discount Car Tyres | Tyre Shopper
If I remember right it's the online arm of ?National Tyre Service - you buy online and get them fitted at a depot, cheaper than you can get them if you just go to the depot.  I didn't use them because nearest depot was too far, and a local independent matched the price.


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

Solwaybuggier said:


> Isn't standard advice to replace tyres at 5 years regardless of make?  So if yours got to 8 years (or more depending on when the base was made) you've not done so bad...
> 
> I dug out this link though:   Cheap Tyre Prices | Dunlop Goodyear Pirelli | Discount Car Tyres | Tyre Shopper
> If I remember right it's the online arm of ?National Tyre Service - you buy online and get them fitted at a depot, cheaper than you can get them if you just go to the depot.  I didn't use them because nearest depot was too far, and a local independent matched the price.




Maybe the manufacture recomends that, but I like to buy things that will last untill they are worn out. Would you buy a washing machine that the manufacture recomend you replace after five years. Admitedly, It's only on motorhomes (i've owned) where I've had to replace tyres before they are worn out. All the cars and comercial vehicles I buy tyres for are worn out long before they have time to perish


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

Out of interest, i've just had it confirmed that Barum are made by Continental and they are half the price of Michilins. The write up looks good BUT does anyone have first hand experience of the Barum vanis tyres


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## maingate (Aug 22, 2009)

Michelin are phasing out their Camping Car Tyres and introducing a range called Agilis or something like that. Time will tell if they are any better. One tip I got was to lift your tyre pressure when the van is not being used for lengthy spells. It apparently stops any problem with the side walls when stationary for long spells. I have no idea if this will do anything about cracking side walls.

As part of the deal I have negotiated with Discover Leisure, are 6 new tyres as the old ones have plenty of tread but are probably the originals (6 years old) It will be interesting to see what brand they fit.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 22, 2009)

oily said:


> Maybe the manufacture recomends that, but I like to buy things that will last untill they are worn out. Would you buy a washing machine that the manufacture recomend you replace after five years. Admitedly, It's only on motorhomes (i've owned) where I've had to replace tyres before they are worn out. All the cars and comercial vehicles I buy tyres for are worn out long before they have time to perish



Tyres need use to keep in good condition it is the vibration of road use that
causes the lubrication of tyre sidewalls 

being stood for long periods cause the loss of surface lubrication within the sidewall this brings on cracks in tyre side walls

If camper standing for long periods invest in a tyre vibrator    

Alf


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

maingate said:


> Michelin are phasing out their Camping Car Tyres and introducing a range called Agilis or something like that. Time will tell if they are any better. One tip I got was to lift your tyre pressure when the van is not being used for lengthy spells. It apparently stops any problem with the side walls when stationary for long spells. I have no idea if this will do anything about cracking side walls.
> 
> As part of the deal I have negotiated with Discover Leisure, are 6 new tyres as the old ones have plenty of tread but are probably the originals (6 years old) It will be interesting to see what brand they fit.



I'm not convinced that the cracked sidewalls are due to long periods of inactivity as my previous two campers were never stood still for more than 3 weeks at a time and they still sufferd the same fate. I think, maybe, it was just a Michilin marketing ploy to use inferior rubber knowing that they could invoke the five year rule on us gulible motorhome owners


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## Boxerman (Aug 22, 2009)

Alf 1 said:


> Tyres need use to keep in good condition it is the vibration of road use that
> causes the lubrication of tyre sidewalls
> 
> being stood for long periods cause the loss of surface lubrication within the sidewall this brings on cracks in tyre side walls
> ...



"lubrication" isn't the correct term Alf "protection from UV" is. Save the vibrator for other uses and just cover the tyres up to keep sunlight off them.

Frank


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 22, 2009)

Boxerman said:


> "lubrication" isn't the correct term Alf "protection from UV" is. Save the vibrator for other uses and just cover the tyres up to keep sunlight off them.
> 
> Frank



Frank I am quoting the Michelin rep I once had some tyres crack on a new van 9 months old Agllis 71 to boot,  the rep came checked the tyres found from the date the tyres were 3 years old on a new van.
 he stated the problem was caused by being stood for above 2 years and explained the wax movement through the sidewalls  my motorcaravan is under cover so no UV problem.
I tend to naive and believe the explanations of experts the rep replaced all the tyres even the spare at no cost and to a then better tyre the Agillis 81

Back to Oily's tyres from his post they are at least 8 years old and 35,000 miles so not too bad 

Alf


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## BedfordMJ (Aug 22, 2009)

My local independent won't even stock Michelin tyres, he'll get them ordered if someone requests them. I think also ATS is owned by Michelin so guess which tyres they recommend.
I've not had good experiences with Michelin on cars they are over-priced, the tread seems to be made of play-doh and they crack.


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## Boxerman (Aug 22, 2009)

Hi Alf
Some experts tend to talk down to people, in an earlier post you said that the rep told you that it was paraffin wax which came to the surface. Paraffin wax is normally used as a process aid rather than an "active ingredient" - i.e. it makes the processing of the compound (mixing, moulding , extruding or whatever) easier or more efficient. Anti ozonants are largely wax *based* (there's water in beer but beer isn't water and water isn't beer). If your tyres were cracking up and had not been subject to UV exposure then there was something sadly wrong with the compound, this is probably why they were replaced FOC.

I would never call myself an expert at anything, but I do have 40+ years experience working in the rubber industry from mixing to technical.

As my van gets used as daily transport my tyres don't get the chance to die of old age either, but I would take the age thing with a pinch of salt. ( and I'm fussy about my tyres)

Frank


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## rolandrat (Aug 22, 2009)

kenjones said:


> Boxerman is right. I had my VW Autosleeper Topaz fitted with  conti vanco's
> all round and I'm very pleased with them. Grip, road noise and fuel consumption are all noticably improved. Now with 10,000 miles on wear seems minimal.
> It just isn't worth skimping on tyres.



Conti Vanco, simply the best, couldn't agree with you more.


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

Just been looking for Continental Vanco II on the net. I'm more convinced than ever that the manufactures are ripping me off.
There is a vanco 2 camping tyre which is at least £11 more than the standard vanco 2. Same size, speed rating and even load rating.
Please tell me I'm not paranoid


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## Boxerman (Aug 22, 2009)

Mine are not "camping" tyres. I had the choice of two types 6 ply rating and 8 ply, mine are the 8 ply ones.

Frank


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

Boxerman said:


> Mine are not "camping" tyres. I had the choice of two types 6 ply rating and 8 ply, mine are the 8 ply ones.
> 
> Frank



My point exactly. Same ply, speed rating and load rating. £11 more per tyre because they've got "camping" on the side wall. I'm pretty sure they are not going to use a different compound just for the few "camping" tyres they sell. I feel like they are trying to shaft me again
The more I read about tyres the more convinced I am that we are being ripped off royaly. Except for the odd few bad makes that start slipping and sliding as soon as a cloud comes over the horizon, There doesent seem to be a huge amount between them from what I've been reading. It seems that the tyre wall cracking isn't only a Michilin problem. Let me add, I'm not looking for budget tyres, I'm looking for good all round tyres that are value for money and not wishing to be ripped off by the tyre industry and pay there huge mark up's. When I used to buy a lot of coach tyre's, a few years ago, ALL the suppliers would offer me 60% discount BEFORE we started negotiating, so what was the mark up on car tyres?
I still think I need more information on the Barum's(made by Continental). Anybody?


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## derekfaeberwick (Aug 22, 2009)

*Barums*

I bought 2 Barums for my last van, an Autoquest 270, and the sidewalls only lasted 3 years. The van was my only vehicle at the time and was used at least once a week.

 Not impressed!


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

derekfaeberwick said:


> I bought 2 Barums for my last van, an Autoquest 270, and the sidewalls only lasted 3 years. The van was my only vehicle at the time and was used at least once a week.
> 
> Not impressed!



OK, so Barums suffer the same fate as the big names. Dissapointing BUT, you can get two sets for the price of one set of the big named brands
Still no closer to deciding, I think the vanco's have just got a small lead. Could do with a few more recomendations guys and girls. What tyres would you definatly NOT buy too?


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## Boxerman (Aug 22, 2009)

Are Barum made in the Conti factory or are Contis made in the Barum Factory? 
My rear two Contis are made in Germany but the front pair are made in South Africa. Neither is Czechoslovakia, the home of Barum. Do Conti have their own factory or are they made to contract by whichever company can supply the goods?

Frank


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## shortcircuit (Aug 22, 2009)

Is the date stamped in a code as I can find nothing that resembles a date?


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## oily (Aug 22, 2009)

Boxerman said:


> Are Barum made in the Conti factory or are Contis made in the Barum Factory?
> My rear two Contis are made in Germany but the front pair are made in South Africa. Neither is Czechoslovakia, the home of Barum. Do Conti have their own factory or are they made to contract by whichever company can supply the goods?
> 
> Frank


so you've got four conti's made in two countrys, you've got to smile
Don't dig too deep into the tyre manufacturing world as you'll end up crying
When you consider that the tyre manufactures can't even get it right at the top of the tree, i.e. formula 1, what chance have we lowley campers got of finding a reasonable tyre at a reasonable price?
See, I'm nearly in tears already, seeing how much money I'm going to spend for a product that will will probably be scrap long before it wears out.
And the worst bit is.... we let them get away with it because we have no alternative

Rant Over


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## jeffscarborough (Aug 22, 2009)

I purchased 2 Goodyear tyres (made in Germany) for my car. I needed 2 more 1 year later same make / model & the second pair were made in China

I did buy 2 Barum 195/70/15 RF tyres for my last camper (VW T4) from tyre shopper online and they seemed fine @ £80 a pair.


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## Deleted member 5816 (Aug 22, 2009)

Boxerman said:


> Hi Alf
> Some experts tend to talk down to people, in an earlier post you said that the rep told you that it was paraffin wax which came to the surface. Paraffin wax is normally used as a process aid rather than an "active ingredient" - i.e. it makes the processing of the compound (mixing, moulding , extruding or whatever) easier or more efficient. Anti ozonants are largely wax *based* (there's water in beer but beer isn't water and water isn't beer). If your tyres were cracking up and had not been subject to UV exposure then there was something sadly wrong with the compound, this is probably why they were replaced FOC.
> 
> I would never call myself an expert at anything, but I do have 40+ years experience working in the rubber industry from mixing to technical.
> ...


Hi Frank
My vehicles safety relies on brakes and tyres
If I want expert tyre advice I speak and listen to the tyre people 
 if they talk down to me I find someone else

my next door neighbour has worked in the rubber industry all her life she worked a super seal in Barnsley she knew nought about tyres though
 they made hot water bottles and various rubber goods but She were an EXPERT.

Alf


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## Boxerman (Aug 23, 2009)

OK Alf
I can take a hint, I'll keep me gob shut in future.

Frank


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## jogguk (Aug 24, 2009)

Just to put a different twist on things

The tyres on my 3.9GVW campervan have the original tyres they are in great shape with perfect sidewalls, they are also Michelins *and nearly 9 years old*

The van is usually garaged so no sun burning down on it when parked idle (UV stability).

However, these are *not Michelin camping tyres*. They are American manufactured Michelin All Season M+S truck tyres size LT245 X 75 X 16"  Not a common size in the UK for van tyres more popular with 4 X 4 types but the LT load range is hard to get on 4 X 4's tyres in In UK. 

Anyway, these tyres are huge compared to the average M/H tyre, consequently they run on lowish tyre pressures about 43psi front and 51-56 psi rear (correct for the load). so not exactly over stressed

Will be changing them soon as the fronts are getting a bit low, unfortunately these are not available in the UK

John


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## runnach (Aug 24, 2009)

I have a contact in the tyre industry who swears by Hangkooks, No idea whether available in Cmper type sizes but perhaps worth researching.

They are fitted OE by Ford on cars and more to the point seem sensibly priced when compared with the better known brands

Channa.


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## lebesset (Aug 24, 2009)

hankook is a publicly quoted company on the korean market 
although michelin have no control of the company they have been purchasing shares in the market and will no doubt try and take over the company in the future


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## lescombes (Aug 25, 2009)

oily said:


> see my reply to boxerman
> I hav heard that Barum tyres perform quite well and apprently are made by conti. Can anyone confirm?



Yes that's right .....I have Barum Vanis...... made in the same factory as Conti Vanco and Barum are part of the same group..... Vanis are about £15-£20 cheaper dependent on outlet, I got mine from a "we come to you" Tyre firm, top job and about 10 mm of tread too


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## Mastodon (Sep 3, 2009)

Have a look at Gislaved... they wear well and have a good guarantee.


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## Tco (Sep 4, 2009)

oily said:


> I'm pretty sure they are not going to use a different compound just for the few "camping" tyres they sell.



FYI There are several different compounds used in a single tyre. The tread will be one, the sidewalls will be another, and the bead area will be yet another. Some tyres may use even more compounds. 

Why the difference? because each part of the tyre has a different job to do. This was certainly the case in the tyre factory owned by the company for whom I worked.  

Every rubber product has a finite life. Left alone anything made of rubber would ultimately crumble.  The vulcanising agent is almost always the last part of the recipe added to the mix. It starts working straight away, it's actions are accelerated by the heat applied during the vulcanising process but as rubber is a living polymer, the composition of the product is forever changing. There comes a point at which the manufacturers cannot be assured that the integrity is still intact, hence the shelf life given to (for example) tyres. This is particularly true of safety critical items. 

Motorhome use is one of the hardest applications for tyres. Usually loaded to very near their maximum rate for most of their life, and left standing for long periods in all sorts of weather. If you want any rubber item to last, store it in a cool dark place and you will extend it's life considerably - but you might not get much use out of it! 

I don't know what compound differences are used in the Michelin Camping tyre, but I do know that an internationally famous manufacturer is aware if it's responsibilities to ensure the safety of the users of their product. They would not for example attempt to decieve by simply stamping a C on a standard tyre as a "con".  

BTW, I never worked for Michelin is case you were wondering.

Tco


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## jogguk (Sep 4, 2009)

***** said:


> Never had a road holding problem with Michelin as some have suggested.
> Maybe it is because I drive as a commercial vehicle and not a racing car
> Each to their own



Driving style don't come into it

You cannot predict an emergency braking situation on a wet road or motorway From a 50mph stop your van with Conti's will stop in X metres. While your van on Michelin's is still doing 29mph It has been tested and proved (not on your van, but on a laden M/H)

Can you give us your driving style tips to get us off a bit of damp grass

John


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## Classicarta (Sep 26, 2009)

I recently needed new tyres, although NOT worn, I wanted to follow the advice of changing them after 5 years. I tried buying in Italy, France and Belgium, but nobody wanted to give me a good deal.
I was seeking New Michelins or HAWCO (Korean). 
I found that the best deals were from UK, mail order, but I needed them fitted. Local suppliers in East London /Essex only wanted to supply Michelin at list. eventuially I found a local independent tyre fitting company in Barkinside, essex who offered me the BEST PRICE on Michelinand an even better deal on CONTINENTALS (Camper)-
The Hawco? tyre has proved great on my Hyundai for he past 5 years, and I wanted to buy this brand for my Rollerteam. UK suppliers do not rate them as Camper tyres, but looking through French and Italian magazines they have excellent reviews.


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## derekfaeberwick (Sep 27, 2009)

Need to get a set now courtesy of a yob with a knife.

 Know who he is and his time will come!


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## derekfaeberwick (Sep 30, 2009)

What a break, 4 new Conti's for £150:00p. fitted.

  Just the price of my excess with safeguard. Fitted in situ for the price of a phonecall.


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## oily (Sep 30, 2009)

Result


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## derekfaeberwick (Sep 30, 2009)

Long overdue, it's been a devastating year.


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## bigboack (Oct 28, 2009)

*Need 4 tyres.*



derekfaeberwick said:


> What a break, 4 new Conti's for £150:00p. fitted.
> 
> Where did you get them from please.


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## derekfaeberwick (Oct 28, 2009)

derekfaeberwick said:


> What a break, 4 new Conti's for £150:00p. fitted.
> 
> Just the price of my excess with safeguard. Fitted in situ for the price of a phonecall.





bigboack said:


> derekfaeberwick said:
> 
> 
> > What a break, 4 new Conti's for £150:00p. fitted.
> ...


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## noody (Mar 8, 2010)

I suppose it's Ok to revive old threads as important as tyres though I'm wondering if there's a newer thread someplace dealing with the same subject.

Anything new ? Continentals still rule ? My Micheling XC camping have done 19000, still legal at the front and the backs will do another 19000. The tyres are 6 years old with no side-wall cracking.

Have I got to replace the rears ?

Richard.


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## Bondy1 (Mar 22, 2010)

Hi everybody i need a quick favour does anyone know the tyre size for a Fiat ducato swift 630L van as im stuck in work and need to price up some tyres for the van for it's MOT, Got the dreaded cracked sidewalls on Michelin camper tyres.


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## noody (Mar 23, 2010)

I only just saw this request so maybe a bit late, I don't know the Swift but a van that size will probably use similar sized wheels to my van which are 215/70X/15C

Hankook £56
Vredestien £74
Continental Vanco-Camper £105
Michelin Camper £140

All inclusive of Vat 

Richard


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