# Skid Wheels



## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

Top marks for no jokes !!
But seriously Our Motorhome (see avatar) has a longish overhand and on a few occasions minor damage has occurred.
The latest being the demolition of the waste water drain pipes and tap.
I have sourced suitable items here in Thailand to bring back to UK (for the drainage items)
But I am also looking to prevent similar damage by fitting said "Skidwheels" to a suitable cross member (NOT A WC Cross member).
The cross member being behind the rear wheels and suitably strong


 ​
I attach photos and ask 
a) which ones would you recommend
b) what size
c) how to fix

Any ideas from such as Runnach (Terry), Trev(skoda)or and others with suitable experience knowledge

Thanks in advance
Phil


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## n brown (Nov 24, 2018)

i think wheels are unnecessary , i'd use metal skids made from flat bar


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*Thanks*



n brown said:


> i think wheels are unnecessary , i'd use metal skids made from flat bar


But I would rather use wheels if possible...
Ridiculous prices (low) here...in Thailand..available as well in local "B&Q".
Plan is to buy 2 here and bring to uk in April.


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## n brown (Nov 24, 2018)

just thinking of building the framework inc axles,most of which you'd want inside the bodywork  ,and any repairs that might become necessary. also whichever method hopefully wouldn't get much use.sort of problem i'd enjoy lying under a van thinking about !


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*Thanks to the previous 2 posts*

1 some of the wheels I posted do swivel.
2 thinking of locating them at 20% in from the side and about the same distance from the Rear end.


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## harrow (Nov 24, 2018)

A roller would require less height


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## n brown (Nov 24, 2018)

ah , castors - i'd be chopping up supermarket trollies and roping the bases on for a test !
a flat plate across the back,mostly inside the bodywork ,with  heavy castors bolted on would do it


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*The 2nd picture wheels are*

A bit like castors.
What size roughly and I will take a selection of pictures next week.


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## Snapster (Nov 24, 2018)

How about trying to raise the rear end? I wouldn’t be happy putting skids or wheels at the rear, if they come into contact with the ground they will be taking the weight that the rear axle takes, but not at the strongest point of the chassis.
I would consider adjustable air suspension on the rear axle or stronger rear springs. Most vans sit higher at the back than the front, if yours doesn’t, the rear springs may be weak or it could be overloaded at the rear.


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## caledonia (Nov 24, 2018)

I’ve seen small metal rollers fitted to the ends of the rear crossmember/ bumper. I think Runnach Arto has them and its very neat and tidy compared to shopping trolley wheels which would naff. IMO.


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## n brown (Nov 24, 2018)

caledonia said:


> I’ve seen small metal rollers fitted to the ends of the rear crossmember/ bumper. I think Runnach Arto has them and its very neat and tidy compared to shopping trolley wheels which would naff. IMO.


yes but shopping trolley wheels are only a quid for 4


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*Thanks*



Snapster said:


> How about trying to raise the rear end? I wouldn’t be happy putting skids or wheels at the rear, if they come into contact with the ground they will be taking the weight that the rear axle takes, but not at the strongest point of the chassis.
> I would consider adjustable air suspension on the rear axle or stronger rear springs. Most vans sit higher at the back than the front, if yours doesn’t, the rear springs may be weak or it could be overloaded at the rear.


Fresh Water tank and gas are amidships .
Springs ok..just too low skirting plastic bumper etc.
Would be possible to redesign from rear wheels back but too much hassle for many reasons especially rear light cluster.
Will look to do something bearing in mind all the warnings re strength etc.


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## izwozral (Nov 24, 2018)

Snapster said:


> How about trying to raise the rear end? I wouldn’t be happy putting skids or wheels at the rear, if they come into contact with the ground they will be taking the weight that the rear axle takes, but not at the strongest point of the chassis.
> I would consider adjustable air suspension on the rear axle or stronger rear springs. Most vans sit higher at the back than the front, if yours doesn’t, the rear springs may be weak or it could be overloaded at the rear.



Air suspension is the route I took, it has lifted the back end by 10cm on the mid setting so I am guessing on a full inflate it will lift it by 20 cm approx. There is also the added bonus of smoother ride, added stability in cross winds and is quieter when hitting bumps and pot holes. Maybe I am seeing a problem that wont happen but I am not sure I would like to be responsible for a caster flying through someones windscreen after it has been whacked in a pothole or bump in the road. 
I bought my kit from Ebay for £250 and fitted it myself [I am no mechanic]. Took off the bump stops, bolted the airbags in the same spot, ran the airlines from the bags to a 12v compressor fitted under the drivers seat and the gauges fixed to the front panel of seat base. Each bag can be inflated/deflated independently.
Took me about 3 - 4 hours and believe me, I am a complete amatuer when it come to mechanics, I don't even change my own oil!


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## saxonborg (Nov 24, 2018)

The problem I see with using wheels is that you are not guaranteed to hit both wheels at the same time, this then could lead to higher loads on one wheel and potential for damage, as somebody mentioned earlier fitting rear air bags would be a better bet because of there versatility, not only can raise the rear but can also be used for levelling when parked up, you alsohave the stability benefits when driving.


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## n brown (Nov 24, 2018)

don't know your van, but extending the chassis might not be too bad a job


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*Renault master*



n brown said:


> don't know your van, but extending the chassis might not be too bad a job


Lunar build but based on the Renault.
The grey water tank is behind the rear axle and from memory has x members front and back.
Cannot check now We are in Thailand.
May well take a punt on a pair of castors wheels and then see how they might help.
Problem usually occurs at low speed entering or leaving campsites or carparks with poorly contoured areas.


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## izwozral (Nov 24, 2018)

This is the sort of kit I fitted Air Suspension KIT with Compressor for VW Volkswagen LT 1995-2006 - 4000kg  | eBay but mines for a Ducato and  bought from a Slovnian seller. Looks like the cheapest available now is £280 but it all depends on your model.


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## dalspa (Nov 24, 2018)

Don’t forget that anything you add underneath will reduce your existing clearance height. Castors, unless extremely strong, will get bent and in need of replacing before next use. Similar with angle fixings for whatever system you use. Simplest method would be bolting a piece of hardwood to underside of cross member, recessing the head of the bolts into the wood. F1 cars have wood skids underneath to prevent underbody damage.
I have never grounded but always go slow and often at an angle when boarding a ferry. I have thought about putting something under, just in case, but never got round to making up my mind as to what method to adopt. Some form of rollers, rather than wheels,  always come to the top of the list in my mind.


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*Air suspension*

Maybe the best.
I like the idea of levelling independently when stood.
The idea that you can go from medium to high when needed also appeals.


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## wildebus (Nov 24, 2018)

n brown said:


> i think wheels are unnecessary , i'd use metal skids made from flat bar


reading comments on this thread about wanting to use wheels or castors i.e. things that turn round - and expanding on the idea above, how about using the rollers that are used in conveyor belts when they have to turn corners? 
They are generally heavy duty (much more so than plastic wheels) and would not add much to the reduced distance from ground to rear compared to a skid plate.
And they can be had for not much money  (I have a box of around 12 or so I got from eBay (I think?) around 5 years ago to use in a wheel prep station I built)


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2018)

jagmanx said:


> But I would rather use wheels if possible...
> Ridiculous prices (low) here...in Thailand..available as well in local "B&Q".
> Plan is to buy 2 here and bring to uk in April.



I have a shed full of those,handy for all sorts of things,bought a tea chest full at auction for about £10


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*Yes. ... But they will*



trevskoda said:


> I have a shed full of those,handy for all sorts of things,bought a tea chest full at auction for about £10



Use linux. I need windows


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## Dowel (Nov 24, 2018)

Many of the castors etc found in hardware stores or the modern equivalents, Screwfix, Toolstation etc, have small load capacity 200kg or less. There are stronger options on line:

Heavy Duty Stainless Steel Nylon Wheel HSS Series

80mm Ultra Heavy Duty Castors With Cast Nylon Wheel Up To 2000Kg

If this were my problem I would avoid castors, fixed or swivelling, that hang down below the chassis mounting points. The greater the distance between the point of impact and the mounting point the greater the load on the fixings.

I would favour strong skid plates with rounded off edges, to minimise the possibility of digging in, or a wide roller(s).

The air suspension option sounds better if available for your Renault chassis and would save structural works behind the axle to adequately support skids or rollers. I suspect structural work to support skids or rollers would cost you more.

I used to run a Marlin kit car in long distance trials and had to strengthen the front suspension fixing points to resist the loads of driving over rough ground. IIRC I had two goes before it was strong enough.


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## ricc (Nov 24, 2018)

with any sort of wheel or skid at the back youll end up with the vehicle supported on front wheels and one rear corner.... not only is the chassis not designed to be supported at the extreem rear it and the bodywork wont like the twist.   

nobody has mentioned loss of drive if its rear wheel drive and no weight on rear wheels.


raising the body by improved suspension has to be the right way to go. ... dont forget stowing heavy stuff as far forward as possible...


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*Front wheel drive*



ricc said:


> with any sort of wheel or skid at the back youll end up with the vehicle supported on front wheels and one rear corner.... not only is the chassis not designed to be supported at the extreem rear it and the bodywork wont like the twist.
> 
> nobody has mentioned loss of drive if its rear wheel drive and no weight on rear wheels.
> 
> ...



Also not looking to put at the very rear
But I appreciate both points the twisting effect
Any such imbalance would only last seconds


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2018)

jagmanx said:


> Use linux. I need windows



Windows are for looking through not at.:lol-053::lol-053::lol-053:


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## Wully (Nov 24, 2018)

I’d go with the air suspension if you think you’re gonna keep you’re van a few years. My vans got a large overhang and found it difficult with the smaller ferries around Scotland now I manage fine you’ll also benefit from being able to lift the back when you’re carrying a bit of weight and there’s the ride quality as well I don’t like the idea of the weight of the van on two wee casters probably at you’re chassis weakest point especially if you’re chassis got an extension all that weight is transferred to the bolts holding extension on to the body.


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*Thanks Terry*



runnach said:


> Posted these pics  while back, try to get some today of underneath setup.



How much might it cost to get this sort of thing Retro Fitted ?


Air suspension looks  to be about £250 
plus Fitting maybe £100 but could do it myself ?


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*Aha*



trevskoda said:


> Windows are for looking through not at.:lol-053::lol-053::lol-053:



That is where I am going wrong !


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## jagmanx (Nov 24, 2018)

*My Thanks Terry and all others*

Hard to say, Phil. Our one is a be-spoke job for sure. Google MH towbars, some are fairly cheap, you could *******ise one, plus no need to wire up or add tow ball. Having such certainly protects rear of van.

Air suspension ticks a few boxes, too.

So I have a few months to ponder..
At this stage

1 Towbar a bit pricey  but offers other protection
2 Air suspension probably better for us and should mean NO GROUNDING and minor levelling bonus
Use half inflated most of the time raise as appropriate..We prefer the van level but raising the rear at night after food would also suit
3 Roadpro do the Skidwheels I can do better and stronger here but then they need fitting

So I will bide my time and checkout the items here noting all the advice given


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## jagmanx (Nov 25, 2018)

*These look interesting*

Shock Absorbing Rigid Casters - DASHICASTER


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## jagmanx (Nov 25, 2018)

*Forces and angles*

Wheel Skids Angles and Forces
Still considering this (but keeping the other options fully open) 
Casters 
80mm Ultra Heavy Duty Castors With Cast Nylon Wheel Up To 2000Kg shows castors but as with the roadpro item I reject them but note their weight capacity is OK ....But the Fixing ?  But my previous post may change this
Castors are not good as the swivelling simply complicates and weakens the solution. So back considering wheels
BUT....http://www.dashicaster.com/product/...g-polyurethane-cast-iron-rigid-caster-wheels/
More of a wheel than a castor PLUS shock absorbing !

Roadpro sell skidwheels here Skid Wheels: Set Of Two - RoadPro
A high price for the quality and small (only 12.5 cm diameter, Plastic wheels, lowgradw metal) Thus I will probably not be getting those.
It does however confirm for me that wheels are a possible solution.

My background is as a Maths teacher and so I am able to work with angles and forces etc
Whilst it is  a 3D problem the sideways forces/considerations are so minimal that I ignore
The main sideways forces on a MoHo are when turning at speed. These forces are essentially on the front wheels/tyres and the rear wheels simply track so minimal effect.
Thus we have a simple "Body on an inclined plane" situation which is classic Newtonian mechanics. We can simplify this further by considering one (rear) wheel only which can be modelled as a  1000kg  mass thus effecting  a vertical downforce of 1000kg weight.
Many will be familiar with the "3, 4, 5" pythagoras triangle this gives rise to a substantial angle of about 35 plus degrees but another such triple is 24 , 7, 25 or lets say 96 28. 100. OR 960 280 1000 to match with KG Weight of my vehicle
With 16 degrees being the angle this corresponds to a 1 in 3 Hill and maybe similar  to the fundamental profile of a levelling block.  Thus I will base my forces on an inclined plane which is at 16 degrees which I suggest is adequate.I am probably being over cautious and an 8 degree slope would simply halve the front back force and have minimal effect of the vertical force.
IF the vehicle is at rest on such a slope the vertical downforce of 1000kg is kept in equilibrium by an upward force of 960kg at at angle of 16degrees from the vertical and a horizontal force of only 280kg at angle of 16 degrees above the horizontal.
Similar the the support forces provided by a yellow leveller (16 degrees) AND the brakes.
A wheel in its housing will transmit those forces directly to the point at which it is attached to the motorhome chassis. I suggest the most demanding of the above is the forward  force of 280kg but 16 deg is very steep.
This force is the most concerning is impact .....There will also be an instantaneous impact force as you "Bottom out" on the wheel. For this reason and others I believe a metal based wheel with a rubber tyre to be best. This impact is directly proportional to the speed of the vehicle so less than 5mph !!!  No swivelling needed For me the challenge is to find the correct size wheel/tyre and to get it properly fixed to a suitable structural point about half-way (or more) between the rear wheels and the rear end
I will be interested to receive thoughts on the above analysis !
As stated still considering all 3 options !

Thanks again

:juggle:  :idea-007:


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## jagmanx (Nov 25, 2018)

*Thanks*



hairydog said:


> My van has nylon wheels at either end of the towbar. Living in a hilly area, I find they do get used a fair bit. Sadly years ago their bearings seized, so for the last few years the have been nylon feet. They work well enough though they are wearing away.
> The load on them is hard to calculate. When the tail strikes, normally the rear wheels are still carrying most of the weight. My guess is they they rarely take more than a ton each, though sometimes one or the other will take much more, particularly at a tight sloping junction.
> I'd love to find suitable replacements, but the ones I've seen seem far too weak.



Look at the links I have posted Most of them bear a very good weight


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## colinm (Nov 25, 2018)

jagmanx said:


> My background is as a Maths teacher and so I am able to work with angles and forces etc
> Whilst it is  a 3D problem the sideways forces/considerations are so minimal that I ignore
> The main sideways forces on a MoHo are when turning at speed. These forces are essentially on the front wheels/tyres and the rear wheels simply track so minimal effect.
> Thus we have a simple "Body on an inclined plane" situation which is classic Newtonian mechanics.
> ...





If you are cornering, even slowly, and the fixed wheel comes into contact with the ground the sideways forces can be quite high as the rear axle and the fixed wheels don't follow the same track, this is why 'tag' axle vehicles wear out rear tyres.


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## colinm (Nov 25, 2018)

jagmanx said:


> No swivelling needed For me the challenge is to find the correct size wheel/tyre and to get it properly fixed to a suitable structural point about half-way (or more) between the rear wheels and the rear end




Mounting the wheel too far forward can mean that you have situations which it contacts the ground when not needed or doesn't contact the ground when needed, I'm guessing that right on the rear point will provide the best protection.


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## jagmanx (Nov 25, 2018)

*Yes*



colinmd said:


> Mounting the wheel too far forward can mean that you have situations which it contacts the ground when not needed or doesn't contact the ground when needed, I'm guessing that right on the rear point will provide the best protection.



Thanks for both posts
I aim for about 1 ft (30cm) from the rearmost point but maybe less dependent on motorhome chassis


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## jagmanx (Nov 25, 2018)

*Thanks Terry*



runnach said:


> Phil,
> 
> I honestly think the use of castors is not a good idea, after a few impacts, there is a high possibility they will break up, due to not designed for what you want them to do?
> 
> ...



I therefore think Air suspension is the solution.
The basic kits are cheap enough but IMO I need the on board compressor to be able to raise the rear without visiting a garage  with air..
This puts the price up but HeyHo
Ideally I would like 3 levels Low Medium and high but may well have to do with None medium and high but that would do provided I can raise simply by activating the compressor...from inside the vehicle .

I have contacted a "welder" to estimate the cost of a solution such as you have but I suspect nearly £1000


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## jagmanx (Nov 25, 2018)

*It is just the odd car park or campsite*



hairydog said:


> I already have air suspension (not just air assist), but having that can't prevent tail strikes, it just makes it possible to reduce the number of them.


That causes a problem  once a year say 
Air Assist or Full Air would IMO do 4Us


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## Papillon (Nov 25, 2018)

*These work*



jagmanx said:


> Top marks for no jokes !!
> But seriously Our Motorhome (see avatar) has a longish overhand and on a few occasions minor damage has occurred.
> The latest being the demolition of the waste water drain pipes and tap.
> I have sourced suitable items here in Thailand to bring back to UK (for the drainage items)
> ...



These have been on our van for almost two years and are used on every trip. I bolted them under the tow bar. 50mm Heavy Duty Swivels Castors Solid Nylon Wheel 200kg


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## wildebus (Nov 25, 2018)

i do find this an interesting thread as my overhang is relatively long for a PVC (I think!?) and wondering if I should mount a roller under the towbar Mount as a precaution.

It is fairly obvious how to check the departure angle, but this is a video from "The Fit RV" which shows how.  I imagine the biggest risk of exceeding the departure angle is getting winched onto a low loader or at a ferry terminal  (I got the number plate ripped off getting pulled onto a recovery truck in my Triumph Spitfire  )


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## jagmanx (Nov 25, 2018)

runnach said:


> To be honest and, going by the one on our arto, you would be lucky if there is half an hours worth of welding in it. The 60x30 mm rear rectangle box section material cost would be very little, too. Even cheaper if an off-cut was available. The two sections (cut from plate I think) requires a bit of thought, then profiled to suit and to clear rear bottom valance.
> 
> Fitting: if based on tow bar fit, when I had a tow bar installed to my Mitsubishi, booked for a half day fit, cost me cash, £250 for complete fit. Have a look at T/bar for your spec of MH, see what they cost.
> 
> Ps, not been able to get underneath, monsoon here.



Scottish weather eh !

Not to worry....
You have given me good ideas and with the costs you suggest a solution similar to yours looks good 

How might I source the metal rollers ? please


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## wildebus (Nov 25, 2018)

If anyone is interested, I could bring some of the ones I have "in stock" with me to Moffat this coming weekend as I am having a clear out.

Length is 450mm, diameter is 50mm - or 18" x 2" in old money (sizes a bit approximate - just went out to measure in the dark!).

£10 each or £15 a pair?


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## jagmanx (Nov 26, 2018)

*Thanks Terry*



runnach said:


> Evening Phil,
> 
> I was actually down at Musselburgh today with dog, I needed some salt air in my lungs!! Quieter place now with height barriers in place.
> 
> ...



Found this one Only 0.75 metres long but 3 in Diameter looks suitably Heavy duty.
Could I fit 2  with say a 30cm (1 foot gap) in the middle..Or indeed 3
OR can you get longer ? (I doubt it)
Happy with the price 
This one in particular looks very strong (industrial)

PS1  now understand why you you do not like the castors/wheels

PS2 Shame about the POI but it was getting abused.
I think it was the lazy day trippers that caused the litter problem.
Together with the gulls who would retrieve F&C wrappers from the bins.
Could have been resolved by allocating a few spaces right by the hotel and getting the staff who maintain the toilet to collect money !


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## jagmanx (Nov 26, 2018)

*Box section Qu for Terry*

Stainless Steel SQUARE BOX Section grade 304 - 8 Sizes & 10 Lengths Available   | eBay

Is This OK




Also what do I need at the ends of the Roller (Mountable bearings ?)


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## cliveandann (Nov 26, 2018)

The two options covered in this thread so far are either protect the back end of the moho or lift the chassis.  Another simple option is to raise the whole vehicle by using sand ladders.  These can be used to make a bridge.  Fibreglass grating is now commonly used in offroading.  You can buy a pair of ladders on ebay for less than 40 pounds. They weigh around 8kgs and are 4 feet long.  Also useful if you get stuck in a field.
38mm Off Road 4x4 Mud Snow Recovery Waffle Boards Bridging Sand Ladders 1230x310  | eBay


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## Papillon (Nov 27, 2018)

runnach said:


> Interesting to hear from someone like yourself who utilises caster setup. When you say "used on every trip" do you mean install, or you bottom out every trip?


They are needed to get in and out of my drive, tried fixed type but they couldnt cope if cornering.:wave:


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## jagmanx (Nov 27, 2018)

*Great thanks to Terry (Runnach)*

I now have a firm plan for dealing with the bottoming out problem..

It will also provide some help against a rear end  shunt.

I prefer it to the air-suspension solution as we like our van level
ALSO a full fit with compressor comes in at almost £1000..!

The roller solution maybe £250 to £300 tops and It is what I want !

I appreciate all the various suggestions which have their own merits.
So thank to all.


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## big tom (Nov 27, 2018)

All part of the scooter carrier,I did consider  using steel wheels,but decided against it.


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## Dowel (Nov 27, 2018)

Good to see you have come to a conclusion. 
Just in case the roller is a bit more than you expect, this looks ok and well priced. Available for older Régie Renaults too.

AIR SUSPENSION KIT with 12V Compressor - Renault Master (after 2010) - £279

eBay item number:	183555869259

“Very easy to fit! (max 2h),	No chassis drilling required”      



AIR SUSPENSION KIT with 12V Compressor - Renault Master (after 2010)  | eBay


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## Nabsim (Nov 27, 2018)

This is the sort of thing you would need if you don’t have a proper strong chassis, I know you aren’t going to be doing any wheelies but these are designed to take a hell of a lot of twist and power, more than a motorhome grounding out.

I would go skid plate and air assist though if it were me I think

Wheelie Bar 101: Installation and Top Tuning Tips - Dragzine


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## Nabsim (Nov 27, 2018)

runnach said:


> It really pisses me off when I view some of these idiots arc welding with arms exposed to IR and UV light!!



That’s where I used t9 get my sun tan from Terry


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## jagmanx (Nov 27, 2018)

*That clinches it 4 Me*



runnach said:


> One other point of use, it you bogged down in soft ground and, the only easy tow out access is from year, rear bar is a good fix point, I know this from practical experience.



Towing eye at the front..but as you say nothing at the rear unless.......
Thanks again


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## jenks (Nov 29, 2018)

n brown said:


> yes but shopping trolley wheels are only a quid for 4



Choose the right trolley you get a free kids seat a BBQ and possibly a sun lounger..... simple how to pics on google!


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## jagmanx (Dec 2, 2018)

*Thanks Terry*



runnach said:


> Managed some pics this afternoon, hope this gives you an idea of how mine was done.
> 
> Image 0237, this is a plan view showing thickness of flat plate, which is 5mm. This has been profiled to bolt onto original extended chassis.
> 
> ...



ALL VG

Went hardware shopping today for hinges screes etc for the house
and noticed this "lump of substantial metal"
About 10in by 4 or 5 in

Maybe worth bring a couple back to UK


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## jagmanx (Dec 2, 2018)

*Thanks Terry*



runnach said:


> I wouldn't bother, Phil. They have been formed with too tight a bottom folding Vee, hence the stress raising cracks at each end of fold, of course a wee dab with TIG weld would cure.
> 
> Can you post a pic of internal and external fold areas?



Have to wait until I get back to UK...mid-April
No big tour planned or likely but can spend up to a month (or more) getting this done..

Will post some underneath photos then

Find a suitable welder etc etc

I have read you replies to HD


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## jagmanx (Dec 3, 2018)

*Yes Thanks*



runnach said:


> Ah OK, angle are in UK. Don't right them off, they maybe useful.
> 
> Once you get your head underneath will you true idea of how chassis fixing requires manufacturing. If you take my setup, you can clearly see the horizontal fix, then sweeps up to the vertical to clear bottom rear valance.
> 
> May be your storage folks can give you a point to a decent fabricator?



Angle here in Thailand but best plan is to wait until we are back in UK

Storage company make or repair Trailers and seem to have "metalwork skills"
So will see what they say
Also a small Motorhome dealer nearby and a small industrial estate with an auto repairshop...Both may know
and indeed there maybe another company on the industrial estate
and a big Moho dealer But I suspect they are mainly interested in selling
But again they may/should have info

This is of interest
https://budets.co.uk/epages/c08aedc...65-9ddd-abc6e60a45f3/Products/TR7A-Ren-Master

I suspect it is not robust enough but it may serve a a model/pattern or simply be suitably strengthened


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