# Spanish stealth tax



## myvanwy (May 15, 2021)

Got alerted to this by a friend of ours who moved out to Spain last year. Following the new speed laws this is one method of enforcing the rules,  employed in Andalucia.


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## mariesnowgoose (May 15, 2021)

Not sure what the piece of kit is or what it's supposed to be doing?


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## myvanwy (May 15, 2021)

The info I got from the source implied it was a radar camera Marie.


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## GeoffL (May 15, 2021)

Also, be aware that Belgium and possibly other EU countries have followed Australia's lead and are now hiding speed cameras in wheelie bins and other places where they won't be spotted. Unfortunately, it looks like they could also be coming to UK if a 2017 article in the press is to be believed


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## mistericeman (May 15, 2021)

Good reason to keep an eye on your speed and to know the speed limits.


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## Makzine (May 15, 2021)




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## Fisherman (May 15, 2021)

In all the RTAs I attended throughout my time in the fire service hardly any were the result of or involved speeding. But police forces worldwide know how easy it is to catch drivers speeding, and if the speed limit is 30mph and you were doing 35mph your pretty well stuffed.
What should be happening is unmarked police cars driving about looking for what we all see every day. But there are problems here for the police. Say you are accused of tailgating. There is no usable definition for tailgating, to some extent it’s a matter of opinion. People may decide to go to court, and proving definitively that someone was tailgating could be difficult. The police would never be away from the courts and the figures would not look as good, nor the amount of money they collect from fines. So hence why speeding which rarely is involved in accidents remains the mainstay of police road traffic prosecutions. Prosecuting people for going slightly over the speed limit does little or nothing for road safety. Obviously someone doing say 50 in a 30 deserves to be heavily dealt with.


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## wildebus (May 15, 2021)

GeoffL said:


> Also, be aware that Belgium and possibly other EU countries have followed Australia's lead and are now hiding speed cameras in wheelie bins and other places where they won't be spotted. Unfortunately, it looks like they could also be coming to UK if a 2017 article in the press is to be believed


I like the photo they have of the camera "hidden" in the vehicle ....



Subtle.


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## molly 2 (May 15, 2021)

As revenue's  fall they turn the screw .police cars cost money speed cameras sit their and make money, and improve road safety


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## Pauljenny (May 15, 2021)

Makzine said:


> View attachment 97610


Pull the udder one..!


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## mistericeman (May 15, 2021)

I find the best way of not getting done for speeding is to stick to the speed limit...


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## GeoffL (May 15, 2021)

wildebus said:


> I like the photo they have of the camera "hidden" in the vehicle ....
> View attachment 97611
> Subtle.


You have, of course, understood that you'd be approaching that from the back and wouldn't see it until it was too late (assuming you were speeding)...


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## wildebus (May 15, 2021)

GeoffL said:


> You have, of course, understood that you'd be approaching that from the back and wouldn't see it until it was too late (assuming you were speeding)...


I didn't read the article - just the photo caption saying how the camera was hidden in the vehicle ...


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## Drover (May 15, 2021)

mistericeman said:


> Good reason to keep an eye on your speed and to know the speed limits
> 
> View attachment 97609


These are in the UK... though not passed by law yet.


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## Fazerloz (May 15, 2021)

The beauty of cruise control in certain areas.


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## Fisherman (May 15, 2021)

Anyone who claims to have never exceeded a speed limit either through ignorance of the speed limit or through forgetfulness, simply is not being truthful. Modern cars are so quiet, smooth and responsive, this leads us all to exceed the limit Sometimes. Cruise control can even take you over the limit going downhill.
Do you deserve a £100 fine, a 15% increase in your insurance for five years,  and your licence endorsed for driving 5mph over a speed limit, I don’t think so.


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## jacquigem (May 15, 2021)

Some urban roads in Spain now have 20kph speed limits (not mph) limits. Have to stay in 2nd gear?


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## Fisherman (May 15, 2021)

jacquigem said:


> Some urban roads in Spain now have 20kph speed limits (not mph) limits. Have to stay in 2nd gear?



At that limit, cyclists could easily exceed this limit.


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## mistericeman (May 15, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> Anyone who claims to have never exceeded a speed limit either through ignorance of the speed limit or through forgetfulness, simply is not being truthful. Modern cars are so quiet, smooth and responsive, this leads us all to exceed the limit Sometimes. Cruise control can even take you over the limit going downhill.
> Do you deserve a £100 fine and your licence endorsed for driving 5mph over a speed limit, I don’t think so.


I never said I had never exceeded the speed limit.... 

I drive on average 300 miles a day 5 sometimes 6 days of the week 

Last speeding offence was 4 or 5 years back (6mph over national speed limit on single carriageway, empty, dry road at a quiet time with excellent visibility. 

My fault and lapse of concentration.... 

BUT I was over the limit end of 

I don't hear many folks NOT reckoning that they speed they got caught at was too lenient.


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## Fisherman (May 15, 2021)

mistericeman said:


> I never said I had never exceeded the speed limit....
> 
> I drive on average 300 miles a day 5 sometimes 6 days of the week
> 
> ...



I have just found your post. #11
I was not replying to you.
If I had done so I would have done as I am doing now.
Trying to stay within the speed limit constantly is not easy.


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## mistericeman (May 15, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> I have just found your post. #11
> I was not replying to you.
> If I had done so I would have done as I am doing now.
> Trying to stay within the speed limit constantly is not easy.



It's not difficult IF you drive using sufficient attention.... 

Your speedo over reads so you've already got a safety margin. 
And the driver should be aware of the speed limit appropriate for the area he is driving in as well as the road conditions at the time. 

Only one thing causes speeding.... The driver.


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## Fisherman (May 15, 2021)

E


mistericeman said:


> It's not difficult IF you drive using sufficient attention....
> 
> Your speedo over reads so you've already got a safety margin.
> And the driver should be aware of the speed limit appropriate for the area he is driving in as well as the road conditions at the time.
> ...



Oh well, that’s it covered then.


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## Drover (May 15, 2021)

Last time booked for speeding was in Australia.. years ago.
3kph over a speed limit for a weekday outside a school in school hours.
It was Saturday afternoon ...... barstewarts.
In a hired motorhome...$200 lighter on mo day paying the fine...


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## Fisherman (May 15, 2021)

Drover said:


> Last time booked for speeding was in Australia.. years ago.
> 3kph over a speed limit for a weekday outside a school in school hours.
> It was Saturday afternoon ...... barstewarts.
> In a hired motorhome...$200 lighter on mo day paying the fine...


I wonder if the police officer stuck to the speed limit on that day.
It would be interesting to find out through FOI how many police cars have been caught speeding whilst driving normally. I see them regularly exceeding the speed limits in such non emergency circumstances.


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## jacquigem (May 15, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> At that limit, cyclists could easily exceed this limit.


True. good job we don't have number plates . Local article said probably more dangerous as drivers paying too much attention to speedometer rather than surroundings


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## GeoffL (May 15, 2021)

jacquigem said:


> True. good job we don't have number plates . Local article said probably more dangerous as drivers paying too much attention to speedometer rather than surroundings



IMO there is a huge problem with dumbing down road safety to whether you're travelling faster than some arbitrary datum. It sends the wrong message to motorists that all they need do to be safe and good drivers is obey the limit and a few other absolutes (such as not using a handheld mobile phone). However, all that is IMO a sticking plaster solution that actually makes things worse. The principle of C.O.A.S.T.** seems to have gone out of the window.

The penchant for authorities to reduce the speed limit at the slightest excuse adds to the mix a belief in many motorists that a speed limit is a warranty by the authorities that it is safe to travel at that speed. Backing up speed limits with draconian enforcement shifts motorist attention from primary safety (the picture outside the window) to the instrument panel. The raft of ultra-specific absolutes (like mobile phone use) has massively diluted the general principle that one needs to exercise due care and attention at all times -- so much so that anything seems to go provided it isn't the subject of an absolute prohibition.

**Concentration; Observation; Anticipation; Space and Time


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## Fisherman (May 15, 2021)

e


GeoffL said:


> IMO there is a huge problem with dumbing down road safety to whether you're travelling faster than some arbitrary datum. It sends the wrong message to motorists that all they need do to be safe and good drivers is obey the limit and a few other absolutes (such as not using a handheld mobile phone). However, all that is IMO a sticking plaster solution that actually makes things worse. The principle of C.O.A.S.T.** seems to have gone out of the window.
> 
> The penchant for authorities to reduce the speed limit at the slightest excuse adds to the mix a belief in many motorists that a speed limit is a warranty by the authorities that it is safe to travel at that speed. Backing up speed limits with draconian enforcement shifts motorist attention from primary safety (the picture outside the window) to the instrument panel. The raft of ultra-specific absolutes (like mobile phone use) has massively diluted the general principle that one needs to exercise due care and attention at all times -- so much so that anything seems to go provided it isn't the subject of an absolute prohibition.
> 
> **Concentration; Observation; Anticipation; Space and Time



Ye nailed if Geoff. You deserve a nice glass of your favourite drink after that post.

Slange


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## Snapster (May 15, 2021)

I think you have to understand that a speed limit is just that. It’s not a target. The excuse that concentrating on your Speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish. A good driver will have a pretty good awareness of their speed and if it is appropriate, within the limit, if they are concentrating on their driving. You just need an occasional glance at the speedo to check you are driving safely, whatever your speed.  
As has been mentioned earlier speed is not a major cause of accidents, but when speed is involved, accident can quickly become major incidents. 
I spent 12 years as a traffic officer. I remember when speed cameras were first introduced. I have never thought they are a good deterrent, they just make you reduce your speed as you go through them, not at all a replacement for regular police patrols, just cheaper and are generally seen as income generators. 
With a driving history of around 50 years, I have had one speeding ticket. In 1975. 
However, I have given out hundreds, and heard all the excuses as to why they thought they were safe drivers and or why speed limits shouldn’t really be enforced as they are good drivers and the roads were empty……..
I don’t agree with or like the idea of private companies driving around with speed detection equipment either, something which is gaining official popularity in France.


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## st3v3 (May 15, 2021)

Snapster said:


> , and heard all the excuses as to why they thought they were safe drivers



How about this one - ahead of going into a village the speed limit will change from NSL to 30, quite rightly.

If you were going in the opposite direction it would be perfectly safe to accelerate as soon as you clear the village. Agreed? 

However, because we don't have different limits in different directions, you'd be breaking the law if you increase speed before the sign says so, even though it's actually safe.

So why the fcuk is the camera van parked up to catch this?

Was a regular camera site when we used to go from castle combe back to the motorway. He'd park just around a bend too, the swine.


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## trevskoda (May 15, 2021)

Big problem these days there is far too much street furniture, speed markers are sometimes very small and may change every 100 yards or so which is confusing at times, best to have the road painted with limits and keep them the same to you are out of the zone, different colours could be used and be fluorescent at night where you can best see them, right where you normally look.
And over here if you drove at the limit a big truck would be hanging on your tailgate which drives me bonkers.


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## Fisherman (May 15, 2021)

Snapster said:


> I think you have to understand that a speed limit is just that. It’s not a target. The excuse that concentrating on your Speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish. A good driver will have a pretty good awareness of their speed and if it is appropriate, within the limit, if they are concentrating on their driving. You just need an occasional glance at the speedo to check you are driving safely, whatever your speed.
> As has been mentioned earlier speed is not a major cause of accidents, but when speed is involved, accident can quickly become major incidents.
> I spent 12 years as a traffic officer. I remember when speed cameras were first introduced. I have never thought they are a good deterrent, they just make you reduce your speed as you go through them, not at all a replacement for regular police patrols, just cheaper and are generally seen as income generators.
> With a driving history of around 50 years, I have had one speeding ticket. In 1975.
> ...


I attended RTAs for 31 years.
I saw horrors most thankfully on here will never have to witness.
And it’s really good to read your comments about speed, and it’s low place in the cause of road accidents. Obviously we have to have speed limits and someone has to set them, and you had to enforce them. But my gripe is the public perception that speed is a manor factor, you and I both know that is not the case. The punishments for being slightly over the limit are far to severe. Speed limits don’t take into account driving conditions, or the fact that vehicles are much safer than when most of these limits were set. Also instead of fining people and endorsing their licence, first time offenders should always be offered driver awareness courses.
I have witnessed accidents caused by, drink and drugs, lack of concentration, falling asleep, heart attacks, mechanical failure, weather conditions, lack of experience, etc. Rarely was speeding a factor. Yes obviously speed is a major factor in what happens during an accident, but rarely the cause. And it’s these causes that deserve to be given greater precedence in maintaining road safety.

We used to hate going to RTAs they demanded a more clinical and personal approach than a fire. There was a lack of dynamism and adrenaline, replaced by at times a feeling of almost helplessness  towards those who were so clearly suffering. If I thought that speeding was a major factor in RTAs I would support the most draconian of punishments, but I don’t. I feel that the emphasis on speeding is wrong and counterproductive.


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## Deleted member 51254 (May 15, 2021)

Fazerloz said:


> The beauty of cruise control in certain areas.


Cruise control won't work at the slow speeds concerned, 12.4mph in some cases in Spanish towns


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## mariesnowgoose (May 16, 2021)

davebav50 said:


> Cruise control won't work at the slow speeds concerned, 12.4mph in some cases in Spanish towns



Unfortunately I don't know what cruise control is, never driven a modern enough vehicle 

I find that a clutch, the right gear and a foot on the accelerator/brake seem to work fine.
It certainly caters for 'crawl' speeds'.

But the old fashioned method isn't foolproof either; requires the brain and limbs of the driver to be functioning and alert


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## myvanwy (May 16, 2021)

Most of the talk seems to be about vehicles hitting other vehicles. Modern cars are designed to protect the delicate humans inside. The speed issue comes into play when the vehicles are in close proximity to the mere mortals on foot.  The difference between life and death is measured in mph so fully understand the lower limits within towns villages etc. What I dont get is the need for all the technology (and stealth) to boost coffers, on roads where it is very rare to see another human on foot.
Im getting very close to a rant here. Another cuppa needed.


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## alcam (May 16, 2021)

Snapster said:


> I think you have to understand that a speed limit is just that. It’s not a target. The excuse that concentrating on your Speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish. A good driver will have a pretty good awareness of their speed and if it is appropriate, within the limit, if they are concentrating on their driving. You just need an occasional glance at the speedo to check you are driving safely, whatever your speed.
> *As has been mentioned earlier speed is not a major cause of accidents, but when speed is involved, accident can quickly become major incidents.*
> I spent 12 years as a traffic officer. I remember when speed cameras were first introduced. I have never thought they are a good deterrent, they just make you reduce your speed as you go through them, not at all a replacement for regular police patrols, just cheaper and are generally seen as income generators.
> With a driving history of around 50 years, I have had one speeding ticket. In 1975.
> ...


Curious , if all involved had been obeying the speed limit would these accidents still have happened ? 
From the second part of your sentence maybe an academic question


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## GeoffL (May 16, 2021)

Snapster said:


> I think you have to understand that a speed limit is just that. It’s not a target. The excuse that concentrating on your Speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish. A good driver will have a pretty good awareness of their speed and if it is appropriate, within the limit, if they are concentrating on their driving. *You just need an occasional glance at the speedo to check you are driving safely,* whatever your speed.
> As has been mentioned earlier speed is not a major cause of accidents, but when speed is involved, accident can quickly become major incidents.
> I spent 12 years as a traffic officer. I remember when speed cameras were first introduced. I have never thought they are a good deterrent, they just make you reduce your speed as you go through them, not at all a replacement for regular police patrols, just cheaper and are generally seen as income generators.
> With a driving history of around 50 years, I have had one speeding ticket. In 1975.
> ...


(My bold)
You don't need to glance at your speedo to check you are driving safely -- the S and T of C.O.A.S.T. does that for you. The only reason you need to glance at your speedo is to verify that you are driving lawfully. Of course, one should always drive within the speed limit and wilfully driving in excess of the limit is inexcusable. However, speed is very much a secondary factor to road safety and there is no mention of 'speed' in C.O.A.S.T.

In three incidents I've seen over the last few years at a 'black spot' near where I live, drivers who could have easily avoided their collisions insisted they could not possibly be to blame because they weren't speeding! It never occurred to at least one of the drivers that she could, and should have anticipated and mitigated the 'at fault' party's actions.

FWIW, I've never had a speeding ticket (or one for any other moving traffic offence) in over four decades of driving. With regard to your comment that "_concentrating on your speedo stops you concentrating on the road, is, in my opinion, rubbish_" I have to disagree.  There is plenty of evidence to say that the mere presence of a speed camera causes drivers to divert their attention from the road to their speedometer (e.g. 81% of drivers admitted doing so in a 2010 study by LV Insurance). I know that I've been guilty of this, sometimes to an alarming degree. Worse, in the LV study, a significant number of drivers admitted to behaving erratically (e.g. suddenly braking) on seeing a speed camera.

We have a finite 'working capacity' and (potentially fatal) mistakes can happen when workload exceeds that requirement. An example is at Notter Bridge in Cornwall (GPS 50.425, -4.274) where there is a steep descent on the westbound side with a junction to the right and a speed camera 200 yards further on. This was an accident blackspot where fast-moving vehicles often ploughed into the rear of stationary vehicles waiting to turn right. So 'they' reduced the speed limit from 60 to 50 mph and installed the speed camera -- and the accident rate went through the roof! Motorists were taking their eyes off the road to ensure they weren't doing more than 50 mph by the time they reached the bottom of the hill and so were less likely to spot waiting vehicles. The accident rate dropped almost to zero when 'they' changed the road layout to provide a dedicated right-turn lane, which is probably what should have been done initially.


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## GeoffL (May 16, 2021)

myvanwy said:


> Most of the talk seems to be about vehicles hitting other vehicles. Modern cars are designed to protect the delicate humans inside. The speed issue comes into play when the vehicles are in close proximity to the mere mortals on foot.  The difference between life and death is measured in mph so fully understand the lower limits within towns villages etc. What I dont get is the need for all the technology (and stealth) to boost coffers, on roads where it is very rare to see another human on foot.
> Im getting very close to a rant here. Another cuppa needed.


It is far better IMO not to collide with pedestrians than to collide with them more slowly. Speed is very much a secondary safety factor and should automatically be appropriate if you get the primary factors right. Basically, if you can't properly observe or haven't got enough time to anticipate and react within the space available, you're going too fast -- even if that's slower than the posted limit!


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## st3v3 (May 16, 2021)

The one that I'm still surprised at is people on country lanes. They drive at a speed they can stop in the distance they can see. Not realising the car coming the other way around the bend is going to take up half that space!


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## Fazerloz (May 16, 2021)

davebav50 said:


> Cruise control won't work at the slow speeds concerned, 12.4mph in some cases in Spanish towns


Hence I said "Certain areas".


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## Fazerloz (May 16, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> Cruise control can even take you over the limit going downhill.


Cruise control does not take you over the limit going downhill, the hill does that. Cruise backs off as much as it can then gravity takes over, cruise doesn't apply the brakes, that's the drivers job.


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## Fazerloz (May 16, 2021)

st3v3 said:


> How about this one - ahead of going into a village the speed limit will change from NSL to 30, quite rightly.
> 
> If you were going in the opposite direction it would be perfectly safe to accelerate as soon as you clear the village. Agreed?
> 
> ...



Got a ticket years ago for exactly that, less than 50yds from a NSL sign. Hand held camera, he knew exactly what he was doing.


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## st3v3 (May 16, 2021)

Fazerloz said:


> he knew exactly what he was doing.



Sneaky xxxx


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## Fisherman (May 16, 2021)

Fazerloz said:


> Cruise control does not take you over the limit going downhill, the hill does that. Cruise backs off as much as it can then gravity takes over, cruise doesn't apply the brakes, that's the drivers job.


So in other words cruise control does not work going down steep hills. When applying the brakes you are taken out of cruise control. 
 And thanks for explaining gravity, and what brakes do, I would never have known any of this without your post. 
My point was that in cruise control you could still be over the speed limit, whether it’s caused by gravity, or anything else is irrelevant, you are over the limit.


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## mistericeman (May 16, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> So in other words cruise control does not work going down steep hills. When applying the brakes you are taken out of cruise control.
> And thanks for explaining gravity, and what brakes do, I would never have known any of this without your post.
> My point was that in cruise control you could still be over the speed limit, whether it’s caused by gravity, or anything else is irrelevant, you are over the limit.



I suspect Fazerloz was merely pointing out that its the driver that's responsible for speeding... 
NOT the cruise control 
Or the hill 
Or anything else


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## Fisherman (May 16, 2021)

mistericeman said:


> I suspect Fazerloz was merely pointing out that its the driver that's responsible for speeding...
> NOT the cruise control
> Or the hill
> Or anything else


I reckon we all know who’s responsible.
I have never heard of cruise control, a hill, or anything else being fined for speeding.
The original point was whilst in cruise control you could exceed the set speed for a period and be speeding. That’s all I was attempting to say.


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## mistericeman (May 16, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> I reckon we all know who’s responsible.
> I have never heard of cruise control, a hill, or anything else being fined for speeding.
> The original point was whilst in cruise control you could exceed the set speed for a period and be speeding. That’s all I was attempting to say.



Indeed.... Though 'some' more modern cruise controls are active and will 'brake' to maintain speed control downhill.... 

Some are even more involved and are capable of maintaining a set distance from a moving vehicle in front.... 

It's STILL ultimately the drivers responsibility for abiding by the speed limit...


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## Fisherman (May 16, 2021)

mistericeman said:


> Indeed.... Though 'some' more modern cruise controls are active and will 'brake' to maintain speed control downhill....
> 
> Some are even more involved and are capable of maintaining a set distance from a moving vehicle in front....
> 
> It's STILL ultimately the drivers responsibility for abiding by the speed limit...


No one on here has stated its not the drivers responsibility, well not that I am aware of, I certainly have not.
Thats stating the obvious.
And if some cruise controls are capable of doing all of this then thats great.
Many won't, including mine.


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## Fazerloz (May 16, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> And thanks for explaining gravity, and what brakes do, I would never have known any of this without your post.


I aim to please.


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## Fisherman (May 16, 2021)

Fazerloz said:


> I aim to please.


I have a smile like a Cheshire Cat


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## yorkslass (May 17, 2021)

Been driving 46 years and never had a speeding fine, however I have been guilty of exceeding the speed limit,,,,,never by much......but in concentrating on the road, it is so easy to go above the limits especially in 30 mph areas.


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## REC (May 17, 2021)

What do others think of the velocity control systems they have in many Portuguese villages/towns? There are cameras on the approach road to the town, and if your speed is higher than 50km and not slowing, the traffic light a bit further up the road turns to red and you have to actually halt. If you are going a sensible speed within the limit for the town, the light stays green. It does mean that people slow down before they get to the dangerous bit of road rather than just hit the brakes at a camera then speed up again?
Our local town has just removed the camera and traffic lights and replaced them with, quite high, speed bumps.


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## TeamRienza (May 17, 2021)

The French system of roundabouts, speed humps, multiple ‘zebra’ crossings (without orange beacons) and chicanes with narrow approaches certainly keep the speed down. I have seen a few of the traffic lights you describe and quite like the idea. It seems to imply ‘follow the speed limits and you will get the reward of continuous passage’. Speed humps remind me of the small minority of motorhomers who misuse parking. They penalise us all.
Just what the speed to accident and death ratio is in France, but they certainly seem to be jumping on the automated camera income stream.

Davy


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## Nabsim (May 17, 2021)

I best stay quiet on this one methinks


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## mariesnowgoose (May 18, 2021)

REC said:


> What do others think of the velocity control systems they have in many Portuguese villages/towns? There are cameras on the approach road to the town, and if your speed is higher than 50km and not slowing, the traffic light a bit further up the road turns to red and you have to actually halt. If you are going a sensible speed within the limit for the town, the light stays green. It does mean that people slow down before they get to the dangerous bit of road rather than just hit the brakes at a camera then speed up again?
> Our local town has just removed the camera and traffic lights and replaced them with, quite high, speed bumps.



I think it sounds like quite a neat idea, Ruth, and seems to be doing the job.

Speed bumps are horrible things!


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## alcam (May 18, 2021)

TeamRienza said:


> The French system of roundabouts, speed humps, multiple ‘zebra’ crossings (without orange beacons) and chicanes with narrow approaches certainly keep the speed down. I have seen a few of the traffic lights you describe and quite like the idea. It seems to imply ‘follow the speed limits and you will get the reward of continuous passage’. Speed humps remind me of the small minority of motorhomers who misuse parking. They penalise us all.
> Just what the speed to accident and death ratio is in France, but they certainly seem to be jumping on the automated camera income stream.
> 
> Davy


Think , in France , the pedestrian is given priority . As it should be


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## GeoffL (May 18, 2021)

TeamRienza said:


> The French system of roundabouts, speed humps, multiple ‘zebra’ crossings (without orange beacons) and chicanes with narrow approaches certainly keep the speed down. I have seen a few of the traffic lights you describe and quite like the idea. It seems to imply ‘follow the speed limits and you will get the reward of continuous passage’. Speed humps remind me of the small minority of motorhomers who misuse parking. They penalise us all.
> Just what the speed to accident and death ratio is in France, but they certainly seem to be jumping on the automated camera income stream.
> 
> Davy


Eek! You've just reminded me of an incident in the 1980s when I was towing a caravan through Lannion in Brittany. I spotted a sign warning of speed humps a few hundred metres before a roundabout and so slowed right down. However, there were no speed bumps before the roundabout. Heaving a sigh of relief at having successfully negotiated my first ever French roundabout, I accelerated away from the roundabout accordingly for the speed limit when it hit me -- or rather, I hit it; the speed hump, that is. The swines had put the speed hump after the roundabout and after the 'danger zone'. In my towing mirror, I noted that the trailer wheels left the road by several inches. When I got to our campsite a few miles down the road, I found the contents of the larder strewn all over the caravan floor! ...


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## yorkslass (May 18, 2021)

I like the sound of the traffic light system, a good way to effectively stop speeding.
Years ago I had a little dashboard gizmo that bleeped if you went over the limit.It was about the time when speed cameras were being introduced.. Thinking about it, it was probably a speed camera alert gizmo. My point is, it made driving relaxing again, instead of constantly being on high alert for cameras......made it far easier to concentrate on what was happening on the road, instead of constantly checking my Speedo.


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## REC (May 18, 2021)

We use the speed alert on the satnav. Since Dave got a ticket for doing 34 in 30mph area and did a speed awareness course. It is irritating but useful, wish ours could be adjusted so it doesn't go off at 31mph but feel better that it alerts me!


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## mark61 (May 18, 2021)

Traffic light system is a good one, can't remember where I've come across it though.

Drivers have to be aware it is a traffic light, and not a target though.


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## myvanwy (May 18, 2021)

They use the same system in rural Spain. It works when you realize it was your fault in the first place.


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## Kontiki (May 18, 2021)

I use the speed limiter but living on a hill this isn't sufficient even leaving in gear. Even in 3rd it will go over without also braking but the warning beeper lets me know. If we are using the SatNav I have it set to warn if exceeding the limit with a 0% tolerance, annoying but does remind me if I miss the sign. Its simple really consider the limits are the maximum if you go over even by accident then its your fault so don't moan. Get fed up hearing people say they were only a couple of miles over the limit, you were speeding so get over it & learn. I got caught once on a motorbike when I was 16 (60 in a 30 limit at about 1am). I've been lucky not to have been caught again but being a lot older now just don't want the hassle so drive extra careful, even so if I do get a ticket I couldn't complain.


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## barge1914 (May 18, 2021)

mariesnowgoose said:


> I think it sounds like quite a neat idea, Ruth, and seems to be doing the job.
> 
> Speed bumps are horrible things!


Not as bad as Algerian ones used to be. Next to each hump was a pile of exhausts, bumpers and other debris from those who underestimated how portly the sleeping policemen were.


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