# those who want to take without giving.



## Tony Lee (Jul 6, 2009)

> The people who generally are opponents to this system are those who want to take without giving.



Hi Admin, your generalisation is just a bit too general to let it go without comment.

I am  an opponent of your proposed rewards system.

Along with quite a few others, I would regard myself as overwhelmingly one of the givers TO this forum rather than one of the takers FROM the forum. 
Apart from the occasional and generally justified lapse into not suffering fools gladly,you just have to look over any reasonable sample of my posts to see that. 
One thing I won't do is accept mickeymouse friendship requests or send them, so of course that may leave me quite disadvantaged in your new rewards scheme. Similarly I won't be posting a lot of links or uploading lots of files because those sort of things are often a waste of bandwidth. How exactly does one rate the usefulness of a file. I have lots though if I ever feel the need to get the little coloured bars up a bit higher.

What I AM happy to do though is give whatever advice I can in fields that I am either expert or feel qualified by experience. For this reason, I don't feel inclined to make any financial contribution to a forum that wouldn't function without assistance from those who are prepared to give their time for no reward other than the occasional "thanks'. Obviously that will count against me in the reward system but that is too bad. How exactly does one rate posts?  By the number made?  I hope not!  By the number of thanks received? Hmmmm. Better perhaps, but it seems to me that quite a few members hit the thanks button for no good reason than it is there to hit.

Anyway, rather than bag everyone on the basis of a hard day because some clowns send you hate mail by PM, could I suggest that you deal with them by booting them out regardless of the temporary dip in your membership numbers. Quality is what counts - not quantity.


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## Chrissy (Jul 6, 2009)

*Support for Admin*



Tony Lee said:


> Hi Admin,
> 
> Anyway, rather than bag everyone on the basis of a hard day because some clowns send you hate mail by PM, could I suggest that you deal with them by booting them out regardless of the temporary dip in your membership numbers. Quality is what counts - not quantity.



Seems fair as there is no need to resort to that kind of behaviour under any circumstances IMO.  

I have also noticed one or two posting inflamatory remarks, which doesn't help when a situation has already reached breaking point.

and definately it is "Quality is what counts - not quantity"

Just my two penneth.

Don't let the B?st@rds grind you down Admin this is a brilliant site

Chrissy


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## Admin (Jul 6, 2009)

I will post a statement soon and that will be my reply to all threads that involve this matter.


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## runnach (Jul 6, 2009)

***** said:


> I think that many people on here if not all are experts or very experienced in some way or particular field and have something to offer and many do and will continue to
> I offer what I can and because I was very keen I quickly racked up a high post count, however I do hope that my posts have been useful or helpful and in no way were they posted to get rewards of any kind
> I keep reading the digs about high posters posting to get brownie points and I can honestly say that was not my intention
> Someone has to be the high poster and unfortunately it is me at this time



I would agree, I was prolific in the early days too albeit I have new constraints on my time.

I suspect  we are similar in the respect we are 100 percent driven and committed to our chosen hobby. Nothing to do with how many posts have been racked up I agree.

Channa


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## lenny (Jul 6, 2009)

***** said:


> You have it in one



Totally agree with you both Graham and Channa, in fact you took the words right out of my mouth ,as they say, seems to me that most of the time this site ticks along nicely then all of a sudden a bad apple or two floats to the top and all hell breaks loose.


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## ajs (Jul 6, 2009)

lenny said:


> seems to me that most of the time this site ticks along nicely then all of a sudden a bad apple or two floats to the top and all hell breaks loose.


 

probably a granny smith....they go off quick

unfortunately... i don't know what all the comments are about... i either missed it or the significance passed me by

if it's about an abusive private pm by one person... he's easy to deal with.. so what's the problem

btw...how did the content of a private pm to admin become public 

regards
aj


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## scotsy (Jul 6, 2009)

*post whores*

I have posted 4770 times on North UK Bikers | North UK Ride-out Site since i joined 3 years ago and am 2nd only to the site owner/admin (he has a 3 year start on me) but all my posting is to help others/stimulate discussion/share knowledge and most of all...have a good craic with other like minded people around the north of england. We meet and go on rideouts together, we ask for help, we give advice, we help new riders along, we promote further training, we look after each other, we care...because we share the same interest

I don't post to become a 'post whore' whose only interest is to reach a 'target', i have in the past instigated word games, quizzes, poetry threads, cropped photo guessing games.... anything to keep the members interested and actively posting and i have NO privelages at all...no special rights... no bright lights around my username...we don't need a class system

When i get to know a bit more about MH'ing i will gain the confidence to post more on here but at the moment its a bit daunting when there are so many others with REAL experience and knowledge willing to help, i therefore tend to read more than i post 

Keep posting you regulars, keep the site as it is now!!!


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## simong (Jul 7, 2009)

While I aggree that admin does a cracking job on running the site, it's a shame that it's takes something like the events of the last couple of days for him to get the credit for what he's done to date, now don't get me wrong 99.99% of us think he's doing a good job but possibly don't say thanks often enough.

And while I'm unable to offer a donation( yes there are some people that can't make a finantial donations), I hope my 18+ years knowledge of mechanics,electrical,electronics and body repair that I offer make up for it


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## Dezi (Jul 7, 2009)

Hi, I agree with most, not all, of the above comments. Like Tony Lee I simply wish to continue contributing to this site, without adopting any “face book” type friendships or posting many photos. Having already commented of my understanding of Admins annoyance with abuse in another thread I found that I became a target simply for asking for restraint, odd to say the least. Like many others I will respond to a request for info if I have it. I will also submit information garnered from my own experience so that hopefully it will lessen the amount of pratfalls that some other individual has to suffer while meandering through this mortal coil. But that’s all. How that will leave me on the ratings poll I have no idea. Should I worry about it ?  I doubt it.

 Dezi


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## Deleted member 3802 (Jul 7, 2009)

Dezi said:


> Hi, I agree with most, not all, of the above comments. Like Tony Lee I simply wish to continue contributing to this site, without adopting any “face book” type friendships or posting many photos. Having already commented of my understanding of Admins annoyance with abuse in another thread I found that *I became a target simply for asking for restraint, odd to say the least. *Like many others I will respond to a request for info if I have it. I will also submit information garnered from my own experience so that hopefully it will lessen the amount of pratfalls that some other individual has to suffer while meandering through this mortal coil. But that’s all. How that will leave me on the ratings poll I have no idea. Should I worry about it ?  I doubt it.
> 
> Dezi


*Steady on with the ex teachers / lecturers Sasquach, we all have feelings Dezi *

is this what you mean by been targeted?i don't see this as personal to you the guy was getting at the people coming on and collecting sorry correcting spelling and gandmar sorry i mean grammar


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## wigan pier (Jul 7, 2009)

weve all got somthing to give its called knowlage of life?


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## AndyC (Jul 7, 2009)

lenny said:


> seems to me that most of the time this site ticks along nicely then all of a sudden a bad apple or two floats to the top and all hell breaks loose.



Can't say I noticed any 'bad apples'. I know admin has been deleting messages (mine included) from some people who didn't agree with the rating system, so maybe the messages got deleted before I saw them?

Personally I don't see the problem with discussing how the site is run, so long as it's a reasoned debate. There is certainly no excuse for abusive PMs to admin. As others have said, anyone sending such messages is easily dealt with by deleting their membership, and if seriously abusive, sending a complaint to their ISP.

AndyC


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## Dezi (Jul 7, 2009)

Hi Old Arthur, For the sake of clarity it was the comment after my call to "steady on" that seemed a bit strong. But let us all move on to the sunlit uplands as sir once said.

Dezi


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## Deleted member 4850 (Jul 7, 2009)

Dezi said:


> Hi, I agree with most, not all, of the above comments. Like Tony Lee I simply wish to continue contributing to this site, without adopting any “face book” type friendships or posting many photos. Having already commented of my understanding of Admins annoyance with abuse in another thread I found that I became a target simply for asking for restraint, odd to say the least. Like many others I will respond to a request for info if I have it. I will also submit information garnered from my own experience so that hopefully it will lessen the amount of pratfalls that some other individual has to suffer while meandering through this mortal coil. But that’s all. How that will leave me on the ratings poll I have no idea. Should I worry about it ?  I doubt it.
> 
> Dezi



Hi
As I only get online sporadically all this has gone over my head...took me a while to even notice the coloured bars! But I'm like Dezi in that I enjoy the site enormously and although I don't feel I know much about anything, am glad to share whatever experience seems relevant at a given time. But I'm not into social networking much - don't have the time except maybe in darkest winter.

I think Admin does a great job and am sorry to hear he got some flak..he deserves a medal for starting this great site in the first place. Ratings? Beratings? Aw heck...life's too short...let's talk about campervans and wild places again!


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## Admin (Jul 7, 2009)

What everyone is failing to realise is that;

1) The system does not work on post counts, that is the smallest part of it.

2) I will not be limiting access to any part of this based upon it or anything else.

3) The person who posts the site in the database will decide who THEY want to see THIER information.


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## AndyC (Jul 7, 2009)

Admin said:


> What everyone is failing to realise is that;
> 
> 
> 3) The person who posts the site in the database will decide who THEY want to see THIER information.



What options will there be to chose from when deciding who can see their entry?

AndyC


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## Kontiki (Jul 7, 2009)

First time I have managed to get on the web for the last 13 days as we are touring Scotland, so I seem to have missed what's been happening. I admit to being mostly a taker at the moment & would like to thank everybody who has posted wildcamping places that I have used. Some I found difficult to find or sometimes I didn't manage to find them at all!! I have also managed to find some new ones of our own. What I have been doing is saving all these as TomTom POIs & intend to make them available to anybody who wants. I hope everything works out ok & the site continues without any restrictions. It would be nice if there was somewhere you can upload POI files for anybody to download as most people have some sort of satnav system. 

At the moment sitting on the harbour car park at Portgordon, not sure who I am connected to but if it's anybody on this site come down for a beer while we are still here.


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## noody (Jul 7, 2009)

I'm not up-to-speed on recent events so I won't comment though I do know running a site like this can be a lot of work.


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## Admin (Jul 7, 2009)

AndyC said:


> What options will there be to chose from when deciding who can see their entry?
> 
> AndyC



It will be based on member status, I have not decided the exact formula yet but it could be...

1) anybody 
2) active members only (must have been a member for 30 days, made one post and visited more than oncein the last month)
3) established members (must have been a member for 3 months, made 50 posts and visited more than once in the last month)

or something like that.

People want to protect there favorite sites from hordes of vans and council closures. Without some kind of control they simply wont post them and that is a fact!


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## AndyC (Jul 7, 2009)

Admin said:


> It will be based on member status, I have not decided the exact formula yet but it could be...
> 
> 1) anybody
> 2) active members only (must have been a member for 30 days, made one post and visited more than oncein the last month)
> ...


Sounds like a reasonable starting point. I'd be a bit concerned if it was mainly based on the number of posts, that would just encourage a large number of irrelevant messages. 

Maybe members have some suggestions?

AndyC


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## Admin (Jul 7, 2009)

AndyC said:


> Sounds like a reasonable starting point. I'd be a bit concerned if it was mainly based on the number of posts, that would just encourage a large number of irrelevant messages.
> 
> Maybe members have some suggestions?
> 
> AndyC



Andy I understand your concerns, forced post counts are bad.


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## AndyC (Jul 7, 2009)

***** said:


> This number of posts keeps coming up
> Cant see the problem really as I am the highest poster and my posts work out at less than 7 per day
> So what is wrong with that



The issue is that, if a member's access to the database is determined mainly by the number of posts that the member has made, there could be a tendency for some  people to make largely irrelevant posts just to bump up their total to the number required to get access.

AndyC


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## noody (Jul 8, 2009)

Posting the location of favoured sites ? That's a joke, whilst I appreciate the members of this forum accept a high standard of behavior there are those amongst us who consider only themselves to the extent that these favoured sites are changed irreversibly.

Like dog-owners amongst us who don't pick-up there are motorhome-ers who just stick two fingers up to authority and spoil it for everyone.

Over a period of 8 years one the UK's loveliest beaches now has a 4 month dog-ban, (Largely ignored) its dirt-road type parking which was free and happy with a good atmosphere during summer is now pay-and-display. Even worse, the behavior of a few is likely to result in hight barriers.


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## Dezi (Jul 8, 2009)

Hi, I agree with ***** & Noody on this topic. I am happy to share my list of pub stopovers because somebody else is responsible for the behaviour of users - the landlord. However favourite, well use (by me) wild overnight spots I tend to keep to myself purely for selfish reasons. I do not want the situation abused. You really have to live, as I do near a tourist / holiday location, to realise the selfish uncaring attitude of some motorhome / caravan owners. The mess, costs and in some cases vandalism that these individuals create does nobody any favours, least of all the more responsible among us. 

Dezi


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## noody (Jul 8, 2009)

I won't even share pub stop-overs, maybe via a PM, yes. The pub at the beach I regard as my local beach had a good sized parking area and allowed parking/stay-overs by motorhome-ers until the inevitable.

People parking in his car park, staying overnight and not using his pub. At the time he got so fed-up that he levied a charge of £10 though I think he now allows stay-overs again on the strict basis you eat and drink in his pub rather than just treat it as a free campsite, did I say, there is a campsite next door.

I understand 'Admin'  is angry over something I don't really understand, I've done a lot more reading than posting on this site because there has been a lot of valuable contribution by a variety of posters. 

It's a good site, keep it simple,don't mess with it.


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## Kontiki (Jul 8, 2009)

I was just looking & see I have been a member since 2004 & not posted as much as I should have done. I will try to post more when I can but we do tend to go off for 3 month or more trips at a time & often forget to note where we have been. I am trying to keep a record of where we stop, I usually mark them on my Tomtom but I have now got into the habit of noting the GPS co-ords as well so I will post them when we can. 

BTW
I recently came accross this site Camper informatie Engeland, Nederland en meer although it's in Dutch they have some files you can download. One of them listed places for the UK & in it there was a familiar description of a place we tried to find (unsucessfully) but I recognized the description for the Ben Lawers post from this site about the place being on the Glen Lyon road at about 1200 feet. I am sure quite a few of the other entries wer from this site as well. They also have a copywrite saying it can't be reproduced without their permission!!
Just found another one that was listed for Elgin & it was the same as the one posted on here word for word.


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## Deleted member 3802 (Jul 8, 2009)

what's been said in a lot of post's now about our own favorite spot shows that a lot of us have been in the same mind about posting them on open forum most of us are willing to share to the right people in the right way as in my post about going to wales this weekend i have had pm's offering me spots thats what its all about once members get a feeling for other members and its not about number of postings or cliques i past a spot on to one lady after afew posts she now as a lot more but it felt right to do  (dos'e this make sence ?)


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## Deleted member 5759 (Jul 8, 2009)

Old_Arthur said:


> what's been said in a lot of post's now about our own favorite spot shows that a lot of us have been in the same mind about posting them on open forum most of us are willing to share to the right people in the right way as in my post about going to wales this weekend i have had pm's offering me spots thats what its all about once members get a feeling for other members and its not about number of postings or cliques i past a spot on to one lady after afew posts she now as a lot more but it felt right to do  (dos'e this make sence ?)




Hi,

From what I have read the object of the original excerise was to restrict every Tom, Dick and Harry finding out about favourite wild camping spots and in consequence taking away their exclusivity and getting them over used and abused.

Members and Admin would not want to find their favourite spots (who have no doubt spent considerable time and effort in finding these places) full of non-members .

As this is a free forum and open to all and sundry in cyberspace, restriction to information is a difficult one.

As a suggestion, why not a specific database accessible only to members who have provided information as to wild camping spots on this database.

*As to excisting memers only*, why not automatic access if they have made five normal posts, not applicable to new memers until they have accessed the data base on post only, not read and left information or by invite from senior members.

Peter


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## nowhereman (Jul 8, 2009)

Old_Arthur said:


> what's been said in a lot of post's now about our own favorite spot shows that a lot of us have been in the same mind about posting them on open forum most of us are willing to share to the right people in the right way as in my post about going to wales this weekend i have had pm's offering me spots thats what its all about once members get a feeling for other members and its not about number of postings or cliques i past a spot on to one lady after afew posts she now as a lot more but it felt right to do  (dos'e this make sence ?)



Makes sence to me, wildcamp spots are quite a find and quite often I feel as though they need protecting. Therefor I hardly ever post a spot on a thread. However If someone is needing a spot and I know of one then I do quite often let them know by pm. This site is primarily about pooling info and helping each other out, but the posting of wildcamp spots is a double edged sword, especially if you are a fulltimer and the spots are quite an important part of your day to day life. Tis a tricky subject.


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## sasquatch (Jul 8, 2009)

Old_Arthur said:


> *Steady on with the ex teachers / lecturers Sasquach, we all have feelings Dezi *
> 
> is this what you mean by been targeted?i don't see this as personal to you the guy was getting at the people coming on and collecting sorry correcting spelling and gandmar sorry i mean grammar



My comment was not aimed at this site there is another site where the mods and some of their chums have taken it upon themselves to act as The Grammar Police' sometimes an entire thread can go off topic just because of a posters English.


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## noody (Jul 8, 2009)

Being a member of a forum requires everyone to be tolerant, there is no human contact, just text. When human contact is lost we loose facial expression and intonation so we must all make an effort.

Criticism, for example, is very easy. Most people hate to be criticised yet with expression, intonation and a little skill it's possible, on a forum you get people who just love to throw a cat amongst the pigeons. On forums we get depressives, depression is a sad condition where the afflicted only sees the negative side of things and a lot of marginal depressions are never diagnosed.

None of us know who we are exchanging text with and the result of a collection of words can have wide ranging meanings.

Eventually we get to know each other and it's amazing the friendships that are made on the basis of text exchange, I'm often critisised for being far to open for an internet forum, it's because I'm friendly and trusting and want to convey friendly and trusting though yes, it makes me vulnerable.

So what is my point here, I only use 3 forums, on one forum the spelling, punctuation, grammar and english content is so appalling you can't understand what the contributer is saying because his/her language is based on text-speak mixed with Bro-speak. It's so bad I just don't try to read. I have never experienced anything like that on this or the other forum I use and sadly it's the youngsters, our next adult generation.

We-all make spelling and grammar mistakes, mostly it's readable and none of us like being criticised.

___________________________________________
Richard Roggan. Distinguished kitesurfing Gentleman.
I don't do tricks.


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## rach82 (Jul 8, 2009)

God... I have learnt alot from this debate!!!

I am fairly new to the site and have found it amazing - but I must be very naive as a few weeks ago after our first wild camp, I came straight home and posted the two great wild camp spots we found. I didn't think that these spots are what we need to protect from all and sundry!

I guess being new to the site I just wanted to give something back - but this has made me realise that there are people out there who dont think the way alot of us do about leaving spots as you find them etc.

I feel silly now that I hadn't taken this into consideration

I do agree some control should be put in place somehow.


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## Dezi (Jul 8, 2009)

Hi, 
Let’s keep things in perspective. I am happy to share 90% of my wild overnight spots, but the World is as it is and certain elements, as mentioned above will always abuse any situation, so certain spots I retain. Recently the cliff top walk in Southbourne had a group comprising of, a caravan, a ford transit & a car parked up for several days. It takes the police & council time to get the necessary to evict them. This not only P***** off the local residents, but also families on holiday with kiddies who use the path to get to the beach. On a lighter note, I have recently used the Best Westerns “ The Royal Chase Hotel”, Shaftesbury, Dorset & have been informed that proving you have a meal you can park up in the carpark overnight for nowt. However best put on the suede shoes & kipper tie first to try & look the part – it worked for me

Dezi


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## noody (Jul 8, 2009)

Wild camping is life affirming, let's keep it do-able.


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## Deleted member 3802 (Jul 8, 2009)

are they wellys at the off side of the van an i think thas dead dead brainy how tha puts things i think inta words 

p.s. you anorl desi

rach82thas ok lass we all start someware just enjoy tha sen


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## Dezi (Jul 8, 2009)

Oi Old Arthur,
when I want sarcasm I will ring my eldest daughter, she’s built for it. Long memory, years of practice & tongue like an Adder

Dezi


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## Deleted member 3802 (Jul 8, 2009)

Dezi said:


> Oi Old Arthur,
> when I want sarcasm I will ring my eldest daughter, she’s built for it. Long memory, years of practice & tongue like an Adder
> 
> Dezi



dezi i was been honestno sarcasm,so take a compliment i don't give many


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## noody (Jul 8, 2009)

No, not wellies Arthur. I just love sheep for company, we live amongst sheep and cattle here in North Pembrokeshire so it's a hard-act to follow when looking for some place to stay.


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## tresrikay (Jul 8, 2009)

This is the first time I have just read through all these threads, I am amazed that the standard of this debate has stayed on a friendly, serious, and informed level.
So often the exchanges here, have descended into a slanging match and the results have been that sadly missed contributors have gone off to pastures new....... a great loss to the forum.

Maybe as the site has matured and the well of advice, help, wit and  cameraderie has developed. The spoilers have also left...... I note with glee that a certain few have stopped posting, who took pride in starting a ruccus, have maybe, decided to make mischief elsewhere.

When I joined this site, I just used to download sites, I never got involved in the forum.... then when off on long term sick leave I started to post, went to a meet.... then bigger meets, then suggested meets. In this process I have met people who i now concider to be FRIENDS of the best kind, ones you would hope would be near at a time of need.

This site has brought us together, at Whitehouse Farm there were 16 vans and at the Hayfield opening meet it was like a rally and every man Jack and Gill of um, salt of the earth.


So keep comming you new bloods you are welcome to this place, we will help if we can and if we cant we will hopefully point you yonder to the grail you seek and any morsells you can throw this way we will with a hunger relish, digest and thank.

This is what WILDCAMPING is and has been for me..... and I hope is, or will become to you.


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## Deleted member 3802 (Jul 9, 2009)

as posted by rick
*This is the first time I have just read through all these threads, I am amazed that the standard of this debate has stayed on a friendly, serious, and informed level.
So often the exchanges here, have descended into a slanging match and the results have been that sadly missed contributors have gone off to pastures new....... a great loss to the forum*.

hi rick this debate as not been a personal thing or a clash of egos for anyone every one who as took part has said what they thing and would like of the forum,and i am sure admin has read  and took on board ideas and feeling of the members,this last 6 mth the site as really had a change i thinkand can only get better


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## Dezi (Jul 9, 2009)

Worry not Old Arthur, I was not taking umbrage - I was taking something else  !!!!.  

Dezi


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## Chrissy (Jul 9, 2009)

*Tut tut*



Dezi said:


> Worry not Old Arthur, I was not taking umbrage - I was taking something else  !!!!.
> 
> Dezi



Was that the pith I heard Dezi?


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## ajs (Jul 9, 2009)

tresrikay said:


> In this process I have met people *who i now concider to be FRIENDS of the best kind*, ones you would hope would be near at a time of need.
> 
> This site has brought us together, at Whitehouse Farm there were 16 vans and at the Hayfield opening meet it was like a rally and every man Jack and Gill of um, salt of the earth.


 
i'm swellin up.... he loves me after all 

regards
aj


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## noody (Jul 9, 2009)

How-about, it's time for a big-group-huggy, share-the-love. Rather than agonising and dusting-off whatever happened to upset some of you.

Forums are always going to harbour A-holes/those who just love to cause trouble rather than avoid it, admin probably spends a lot of time dealing with spammers who continually try to get a free-ride and then there are those who work tirelessly to just close sites like this down.

It's a world full of weird people, wash your hands of-it and enjoy each others company.

Richard


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## The REBEL CAMPER (Jul 9, 2009)

scotsy said:


> I have posted 4770 times on North UK Bikers | North UK Ride-out Site since i joined 3 years ago and am 2nd only to the site owner/admin (he has a 3 year start on me) but all my posting is to help others/stimulate discussion/share knowledge and most of all...have a good craic with other like minded people around the north of england. We meet and go on rideouts together, we ask for help, we give advice, we help new riders along, we promote further training, we look after each other, we care...because we share the same interest
> 
> I don't post to become a 'post whore' whose only interest is to reach a 'target', i have in the past instigated word games, quizzes, poetry threads, cropped photo guessing games.... anything to keep the members interested and actively posting and i have NO privelages at all...no special rights... no bright lights around my username...we don't need a class system
> 
> ...




My forum gives out stars n stripes, to its members ..lol.. however i have decreased  the amount of posts they have to make...  as far as im concerned they are all a wonderfull group of people who just want to  ... carry out thiere liesure activity... without interference from me, apart from guidance.. as to what they can do... as an admin its up to me to bring a little excitment in to camping, as i have found through experience.


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