# Using the gears to slow



## Tookey (Jun 1, 2021)

Does using gears to slow a descent put strain on the transmission especially if the descent is a long one?

Thank you


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## Harryw (Jun 1, 2021)

Better than cooking your brakes to find they no longer work towards the bottom of the slope.


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## GreggBear (Jun 1, 2021)

Not unduly, better to hold the vehicle back in low gear than to constantly ride the break pedal. If you've ever experienced complete brake failure due to the drums getting red hot through friction caused by constant use, you would use low gears more. I experienced total brake fade on a fully loaded 8 wheeler going over Snake Pass back in the early 90s, & it definitely opened my eyes...


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## caledonia (Jun 1, 2021)

That’s what yours gears are for to slow you down and your brakes are to stop you. Didn’t your driving instructor teach you that?


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## barryd (Jun 1, 2021)

Pretty sure its been posted before and the general opinion was just to let it rev its nuts off and it wont do any harm. As said though you really have no choice on a long pass.  I found out the hard way on the Simplon Pass between Italy and Switzerland in 2009. Its quite a fast descent coming down into Switzerland which made it worse and I had total brake fade.  Managed to pump them up again but its a bit scary.  Even coming down the Col de La Bonette (Roof of Europe) which is I think the highest paved road in Europe in second and sometimes first I still nearly set my brakes on fire.

We used to get Brake fade on the old scooter, the old 2 stroke Peugeot in my Avatar once or twice in the Alps which is even more scary as it had no gears.


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## mark61 (Jun 1, 2021)

Another one for using gears to control speed. Using brakes gently not to over rev. Not unusual to come down steepest hills in first or second gear. Another good reason not to have an overloaded van. 
If you've got low range that can be engaged on tarmac, nothing wrong with dropping into low box either.


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## 1807truckman (Jun 1, 2021)

Always low gear for coming down long descents and brakes only when necessary. I was taught by my driving instructors to use gears for slowing down both in car and HGV.


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## linkshouse (Jun 1, 2021)

There must be a reason why the road signs advise engaging low gear.


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## Tezza33 (Jun 1, 2021)

GreggBear said:


> I experienced total brake fade on a fully loaded 8 wheeler going over Snake Pass back in the early 90s, & it definitely opened my eyes...


I bet it was more than just your eyes that opened 

Definitely use your gears, I pulled over on a long descent on the Alps and the front discs were glowing bright red, if the brake fluid hasn't been changed regularly (1 - 2 years) it will have absorbed water and boil at a lower temperature which also causes brake fade


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## wildebus (Jun 1, 2021)

caledonia said:


> That’s what yours gears are for to slow you down and your brakes are to stop you. Didn’t your driving instructor teach you that?


I still remember very clearly the mantra my instructer used to quote - and it wasn't that!!

He use to say "Gears are for Going, Brakes are for slowing"

be different in HGVs no doubt (but not driving HGVs) and adapt for conditions, but as a general policy ......


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## barryd (Jun 1, 2021)

Mind you dont go too quick on the way up as well, especially if you have a heavy load in the back.


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## RV2MAX (Jun 1, 2021)

You should descend in a gear that  doesnt cause the engine rpm to go into the red even with a slight application of the brakes now and then .

as for gears downshifting to slow  no longer taught by car instructors.    and with hgv its use of endurance systems IIRC


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## mark61 (Jun 1, 2021)

barryd said:


> Mind you dont go too quick on the way up as well, especially if you have a heavy load in the back.



One of my favourite places. Can't wait to go back.
Picnic tables on the corner now.


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## Tookey (Jun 1, 2021)

linkshouse said:


> There must be a reason why the road signs advise engaging low gear.


I just wanted to know if it put strain on the transmission, I dont know understand how it works and was wondering


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## Tookey (Jun 1, 2021)

caledonia said:


> That’s what yours gears are for to slow you down and your brakes are to stop you. Didn’t your driving instructor teach you that?


Er, no tbh. So do you only use gears and a quick brake tap if necessary?


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## vwalan (Jun 1, 2021)

give it a try .be light on the throttle when driving and slow down if you see a hold up etc in front of you .
only press the brakes if need be. 
slow down at the top of down slopes and change down a gear etc 
its amazing how many miles you can go and not press the brake pedal at all. 
surprises me how many have to press the brakes to slow down if going up a hill and get caught behind others .
read the road look around anticipate a stop etc


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## saxonborg (Jun 1, 2021)

Tookey said:


> I just wanted to know if it put strain on the transmission, I dont know understand how it works and was wondering


I suppose you could look at it this way, if the transmission is strong enough to transmit all of the engine power to the driving wheels then it should be ok with only the weight of the vehicle pushing it downhill.


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## wildebus (Jun 1, 2021)

Modern vehicles brakes are pretty good.

Disc Pads are very cheap to replace.  Clutches are not.


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## n brown (Jun 1, 2021)

i came down Mont Ventoux in my lt35 after the brakes broke , with a bit of help from the handbrake . took a while but felt ok .
had front brake discs glowing red on a car once ,when i went through a puddle they both shattered .


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## mark61 (Jun 1, 2021)

Tookey said:


> I just wanted to know if it put strain on the transmission, I dont know understand how it works and was wondering


 No, you won't be putting a strain on transmission, as long as you don't engage a very low gear when doing 50 MPH.
You are basically using engine compression to control speed.


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## wildebus (Jun 1, 2021)

vwalan said:


> give it a try .be light on the throttle when driving and slow down if you see a hold up etc in front of you .
> only press the brakes if need be.
> slow down at the top of down slopes and change down a gear etc
> its amazing how many miles you can go and not press the brake pedal at all.
> ...


Where I live, the brakes on the vehicles tend to deteroriate through lack of use. I can drive home from the local town - 5 mile distance and it is very rare that the brake pedal is ever touch until hit the village speed limit sign.  
I am trying to use the brakes more in fact to try and keep them clean


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## barryd (Jun 1, 2021)

I know where the OP is coming from. Ive come down some pretty big hills in second gear with the van screaming like its going to burst but its never done any harm. Kicks out a load of black smoke that builds up when you finally get to use the throttle but thats probably because the original engine is out of a WW2 tank or something.

You basically have no choice anyway.  These are commercial vehicles, designed to be thrashed and abused fully loaded up by white van man for hundreds of thousands of miles. The engines are probably the most indestructible part of the van.


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## trevskoda (Jun 1, 2021)

RV2MAX said:


> You should descend in a gear that  doesnt cause the engine rpm to go into the red even with a slight application of the brakes now and then .
> 
> as for gears downshifting to slow  no longer taught by car instructors.    and with hgv its use of endurance systems IIRC


Correct, stopped teaching that 40 years back when proper disc brakes came out, my instructor said much cheaper to fit pads than a gearbox, yes engage low when descending a steep hill and of on brakes to let cool, but the old change down to slow went out the windows long ago, remember the old cars had no brakes worth talking about.
Also hows shifting down in an auto box work, old habits die hard.


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## mark61 (Jun 1, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Correct, stopped teaching that 40 years back when proper disc brakes came out, my instructor said much cheaper to fit pads than a gearbox, yes engage low when descending a steep hill and of on brakes to let cool, but the old change down to slow went out the windows long ago, remember the old cars had no brakes worth talking about.
> Also hows shifting down in an auto box work, old habits die hard.


 Easy to change down in an auto, move the stick, it'll either change down or it won't if going too fast.


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## dane (Jun 1, 2021)

No problems locking in lower gear on an autobox coming down steep hills.  Used to worry me a bit not knowing what RPM the engine was doing so fitted a gauge.

Had the Kielder forest road all to myself last year, so was playing with low range descents.  As there is nothing very steep, quickly got bored of 1st low


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## Tookey (Jun 1, 2021)

Some strain on the engine but nothing to be concerned about   

Thanks all


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## xsilvergs (Jun 1, 2021)

Any police class 1 drivers here?
Gears to go, brakes to slow (as @wildebus said).
Use the same gear to go down the hill as you would use to go up, we got taught.
Gear for the speed.


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## trevskoda (Jun 1, 2021)

xsilvergs said:


> Any police class 1 drivers here?
> Gears to go, brakes to slow (as @wildebus said).
> Use the same gear to go down the hill as you would use to go up, we got taught.
> Gear for the speed.


Trained by HMG light armored car.


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## xsilvergs (Jun 1, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Trained by HMG light armored car.View attachment 98214


Nice base project for conversation to MoHo?


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## trevskoda (Jun 1, 2021)

xsilvergs said:


> Nice base project for conversation to MoHo?


Humber of Saracen would be the job.


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## Nabsim (Jun 1, 2021)

The thing you want to use is engine breaking to help slow, I don’t drive manual cars/vans but a few of the autos seem to detect hills and engage or hold a lower gear when going down with throttle off. On my motorcycle outfits I used downshifting to both steer and slow.
It really depends on circumstances on if it how much you need to use gears, better to think ahead and be in the right gear. If only doing an odd hill it won’t matter much, if doing a series of hairpins downhill you can still run out of brakes with discs all round.
Main thing is not overdressing the engine, work down gears using the breaks until you are under control, as previously said don’t risk red lining unless blowing the engine/gearbox is the only way to stop going over a cliff


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## maingate (Jun 1, 2021)

I always use 3,000 rpm as my 'red line' and let the engine do the braking. If the rpm is edging towards 3,000 rpm I use the brakes a bit. That way I am neither stressing the engine OR the brakes.

Even in my cars I have to remember to use the brakes a bit more as the old school Mechanic who does my maintenance keeps telling me to. He says I need to drive it like I stole it occasionally, otherwise the discs will get pitted and fail the MOT.


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## davep10000 (Jun 1, 2021)

Tookey said:


> Some strain on the engine but nothing to be concerned about
> 
> Thanks all


On our 4wd vans, we need to use the engine braking on very long descents,as the braking system is about at its design limit with running near mgw all the time.
On long alpine passes, they will fade eventually if not treated carefully.
Also the reason to fit the best quality pads and discs you can.
Dave,


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## Red Dwarf (Jun 1, 2021)

With anti lock brakes and all the other electronic trickery now found in all new cars, the taught way is not to use engine braking. Personally, I’m old school, the right gear for the right speed. Long descents taken easily using low gearing and brakes to correct speed.
I think with any of us who grew up with crap brakes, not using gear control feels wrong. Traffic is certainly much faster these days, all the safety gadgets and decent tyres have transformed driving safety.


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## trevskoda (Jun 1, 2021)

Yes I can remember the x ply 30 bob skidwells


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## barge1914 (Jun 1, 2021)

Red Dwarf said:


> With anti lock brakes and all the other electronic trickery now found in all new cars, the taught way is not to use engine braking. Personally, I’m old school, the right gear for the right speed. Long descents taken easily using low gearing and brakes to correct speed.
> I think with any of us who grew up with crap brakes, not using gear control feels wrong. Traffic is certainly much faster these days, all the safety gadgets and decent tyres have transformed driving safety.


I wonder what British driving instructor teaches on Alpine descents?


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## barryd (Jun 1, 2021)

Surely the recommended methods are different for cars to motorhomes and goods vehicles though. I agree a modern car I wouldnt be bothered so much and would likely hare down a pass without a second thought but something with weight in it like a big fully loaded motorhome must be driven differently I would have thought. Is it not just physics.  You have power to weight ratios so presumably you have brake power to weight ratio and I bet kg for kg my car has much more stopping power than my motorhome so much less likely to get brake fade in the car than the van.  Probably. *



* I have no idea what I am talking about and just made all that up.


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## SquirrellCook (Jun 1, 2021)

What!  None of you have exhaust brakes or retarder‘s?


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## trevskoda (Jun 1, 2021)

barge1914 said:


> I wonder what British driving instructor teaches on Alpine descents?


Not many id think.


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## ricc (Jun 1, 2021)

SquirrellCook said:


> What!  None of you have exhaust brakes or retarder‘s?


years ago i had a david brown tractor that had an extra pedal above the rear wheel brake pedals... connected to a butterfly valve in the exit of the exhaust manifold ,  virtually blocked the exhaust completely to slow the engine down.    common practice now to use hydraulic brakes on the trailers cos its much easier to replace trailer brakes than the ones hidden in the tractors transmission.


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## trevskoda (Jun 1, 2021)

ricc said:


> years ago i had a david brown tractor that had an extra pedal above the rear wheel brake pedals... connected to a butterfly valve in the exit of the exhaust manifold ,  virtually blocked the exhaust completely to slow the engine down.    common practice now to use hydraulic brakes on the trailers cos its much easier to replace trailer brakes than the ones hidden in the tractors transmission.


Brakes on a old gray fergie were crap.
Yes and we invented the tractor.


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## Amnottm (Jun 1, 2021)

If you wern't meant to use your gears why is there a down hill option on modern vans


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## SquirrellCook (Jun 1, 2021)

I’ve seen a few sand traps around the uk to catch those that mess up their braking.


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## wildebus (Jun 1, 2021)

Not sure why I got this recommended a couple of weeks ago by Youtube but you truck dinos might like this ....


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## mark61 (Jun 1, 2021)

Perhaps retarders are an expensive option on VW trucks.


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## jagmanx (Jun 2, 2021)

Some Coaches used to have Telma retarders.
Used juice from the battery and a big magnet to slow the propshaft (I think)
But the wires could overheat again I think.
These days you might harvest the energy to top up batteries.
I believe the Toyota Prius (Hybrid) does exactly that from the footbrake.


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## Lemut (Jun 2, 2021)

How would you deal with the situation in an automatic? From a distant memory there was '3rd' gear but I can't remember seeing a first and second option.


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## GMJ (Jun 2, 2021)

I always try and approach downwards slopes in as low a speed as practical and then get the MH into 3rd (or 2nd) before too much speed has been built up in order to save the clutch some. I'm not averse to dabbing the brakes then to keep the speed reasonable, that way both the engine and to a lesser extent, the brakes, are taking the strain. Yes the engine whines on the descent but as mentioned, better than having brake fade or worse.

The Ducato has a Hill Descent button, which I have never used as I suspect it applies brakes to keep the speed at around 15Kph rather than relying on the engine. In many instances I find that the set speed it tries to keep to, would be too slow anyway.


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## Nabsim (Jun 2, 2021)

Lemut said:


> How would you deal with the situation in an automatic? From a distant memory there was '3rd' gear but I can't remember seeing a first and second option.


My van is automatic, if I am going downhill and use the foot brake it changes down then will hold it back on engine breaking. I have auto cars which did the same. That’s not CTX style auto though, not sure what they do as I didn’t like the one I had.


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## GMJ (Jun 2, 2021)

Our car is an automatic and has engine braking.

Also does the auto box have an option for manual? I've never had an auto MH but our cars are always auto and you can just push the gear stick to the left for manual control/changing. If so couldn't it just be put into a low gear using that?


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## Nabsim (Jun 2, 2021)

GMJ said:


> Our car is an automatic and has engine braking.
> 
> Also does the auto box have an option for manual? I've never had an auto MH but our cars are always auto and you can just push the gear stick to the left for manual control/changing. If so couldn't it just be put into a low gear using that?


I think all my cars have had semi manual option for at least the last 10 years, the van has the same except when in A (Merc equivalent of drive you just keep pushing stick up or down to change.


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## xsilvergs (Jun 2, 2021)

When riding around New Zealand in 2000 I remember seeing signs on the approach to towns telling trucks to NOT use exhaust braking in the town. 

I was told this was due to the noise levels it created. 

Can manufacturers do it quietly now and if so how have they achieved it with lower noise levels?


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## trevskoda (Jun 2, 2021)

Modern brakes do not fade, rally cars brake very hard and at night the discs glow red hot, change down before a decent and dab brakes to stop over speed, letting an engine rev a bit up to the green band will do no harm, steady and easy gets you to that no overnight parking spot.


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## st3v3 (Jun 2, 2021)

xsilvergs said:


> Use the same gear to go down the hill as you would use to go up, we got taught.



That would be engine braking then...


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## mark61 (Jun 2, 2021)

Exhaust brakes are noisy and work better at higher revs, so additional engine noise too.
Retarders make less noise than exhaust brakes.


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## GMJ (Jun 2, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Modern brakes do not fade, rally cars brake very hard and at night the discs glow red hot, change down before a decent and dab brakes to stop over speed, letting an engine rev a bit up to the green band will do no harm, steady and easy gets you to that no overnight parking spot.



Out of interest - genuine question as I don't know - wouldn't modern rally cars have ceramic brakes which aid braking performance?


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## trevskoda (Jun 2, 2021)

GMJ said:


> Out of interest - genuine question as I don't know - wouldn't modern rally cars have ceramic brakes which aid braking performance?


Yes, some do, but 20 years back no they did not and many times I saw the red glow as I watched them descend down through the Antrim glens.


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## Tookey (Jun 2, 2021)

Round my way we have a lot of 60's into 30's and I tried engine braking and neither myself, van or car behind me seemed particularly impressed tbh


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## trevskoda (Jun 2, 2021)

Id rather change pads than clutches and g/box.


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## mark61 (Jun 2, 2021)

Tookey said:


> Round my way we have a lot of 60's into 30's and I tried engine braking and neither myself, van or car behind me seemed particularly impressed tbh



Thats cause your brake lights don't come on


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## CarlandHels (Jun 2, 2021)

1807truckman said:


> Always low gear for coming down long descents and brakes only when necessary. I was taught by my driving instructors to use gears for slowing down both in car and HGV.


Apparently they don't teach people to use gears anymore. Both our lads were brought up driving tractors and trailers and I taught them to use gears when slowing or going down hills etc. But when they were doing their driving lessons to learn how to pass the test (not learning to drive) they rolled up to junctions & went down hills in 5th gear relying only on the brakes...
Thankfully they passed and now drive using gears again...


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## mark61 (Jun 2, 2021)

Using gears/engine braking to slow down for roundabouts, junctions, speed limits, etc is not the same as using a low gear to assist in controlling speed on a very long decent.


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## mark61 (Jun 2, 2021)

The newer way of using brakes to slow down for hazards does have advantages. As already said a few times by others, modern brakes are up to the job, it's much smoother, the vehicle is much more balanced as the decrease in speed will be consistent and the braking is done by all wheels not just the drive wheels. 
None of that means changing down is completely out the window though.


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## Tookey (Jun 2, 2021)

mark61 said:


> The newer way of using brakes to slow down for hazards does have advantages. As already said a few times by others, modern brakes are up to the job, it's much smoother, the vehicle is much more balanced as the decrease in speed will be consistent and the braking is done by all wheels not just the drive wheels.
> None of that means changing down is completely out the window though.


Especially when it's a works van and you dont pay for pads n discs


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## Greengrass (Jun 2, 2021)

GreggBear said:


> Not unduly, better to hold the vehicle back in low gear than to constantly ride the break pedal. If you've ever experienced complete brake failure due to the drums getting red hot through friction caused by constant use, you would use low gears more. I experienced total brake fade on a fully loaded 8 wheeler going over Snake Pass back in the early 90s, & it definitely opened my eyes...


1963 coming down in to Whaley bridge A6 Commer lorry loaded with ostermilk baby food straight over the lights on red had to change my nappy


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## Greengrass (Jun 2, 2021)

I was taught to come down a hill same gear you went up it, But that was about 1960 less power in those days


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## maingate (Jun 2, 2021)

Tookey said:


> Round my way we have a lot of 60's into 30's and I tried engine braking and neither myself, van or car behind me seemed particularly impressed tbh


Dropping from 60 to 30 should not put any strain on a transmission as you just back off the throttle and change down through the gears and match revs to your lower gear and lower speed. It will be hairy if you don't know how to do that.


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## Greengrass (Jun 2, 2021)

xsilvergs said:


> When riding around New Zealand in 2000 I remember seeing signs on the approach to towns telling trucks to NOT use exhaust braking in the town.
> 
> I was told this was due to the noise levels it created.
> 
> Can manufacturers do it quietly now and if so how have they achieved it with lower noise levels?


That's the Jake brake works on the engine


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## RV2MAX (Jun 2, 2021)

Using a jake at low rpm and load can harm the engine  , an exhaust brake isnt very effective at low rpm either , but is quieter than a jake  , Telma retarder or hydraulic retarder are silent  but more expensive .


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## wildebus (Jun 2, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Id rather change pads than clutches and g/box.


The way people are posting on this thread, it makes me wonder if they know their vehicles have that funny stumpy thing on the floor called a "brake pedal" designed to help slow down the vehicle


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## ricc (Jun 2, 2021)

for most of my driving i find thinking ahead and taking foot of the throttle pedal means i rarely have to use brakes to slow down.   back in the days i used a company van the garage commented my brake pads lasted about twice as long as most of my co drivers.   comes from learning to drive on vehicles with dubious brakes.  sometimes the dab on the pedal is just so the idiot behind gets a flash of brakelights to wake him up.
my fathers 2000e cortina had 3 speed auto box, when making progress i used to slip the selector  from d to 2 on approaching roundabouts and bends rather than using brakes to make it change down to power through...basically using it like a clutchless manual.


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## SquirrellCook (Jun 2, 2021)

I've had the front brakes on fire in the Rhone alps, but I was late and in an hurry.  All was fine apart from the horrible smell.  Mercedes used to have a water spray option to cool the brakes.


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## trevskoda (Jun 2, 2021)

mark61 said:


> The newer way of using brakes to slow down for hazards does have advantages. As already said a few times by others, modern brakes are up to the job, it's much smoother, the vehicle is much more balanced as the decrease in speed will be consistent and the braking is done by all wheels not just the drive wheels.
> None of that means changing down is completely out the window though.


They have been breaking on all wheels since 1920, how old is you wagon.


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## trevskoda (Jun 2, 2021)

maingate said:


> Dropping from 60 to 30 should not put any strain on a transmission as you just back off the throttle and change down through the gears and match revs to your lower gear and lower speed. It will be hairy if you don't know how to do that.


Read the road and back of throttle, no requirement to change down, unless racing


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## Greengrass (Jun 2, 2021)

RV2MAX said:


> Using a jake at low rpm and load can harm the engine  , an exhaust brake isnt very effective at low rpm either , but is quieter than a jake  , Telma retarder or hydraulic retarder are silent  but more expensive .


And weigh a lot more so less payload that's why we don't have many in the UK.  I had a exhaust brake that was a blade that went through the exhaust pipe  (not a butterfly type) best one that I ever had


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## mark61 (Jun 2, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Read the road and back of throttle, no requirement to change down, unless racing


 Good luck with that.


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## trevskoda (Jun 2, 2021)

mark61 said:


> Good luck with that.


PARA WING would be better.


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## Nabsim (Jun 2, 2021)

I am fairly sure my van has bigger disks and pads on the front and that it’s set to apply more pressure on the front wheels, engine braking allows me to slow the rear wheels more. I don’t use engine braking instead of foot brake but in addition to, just letting your foot off the throttle will slow the vehicle. People should be aware what’s going on around and in front of them and be driving to conditions anyway


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## trevskoda (Jun 2, 2021)

Nabsim said:


> I am fairly sure my van has bigger disks and pads on the front and that it’s set to apply more pressure on the front wheels, engine braking allows me to slow the rear wheels more. I don’t use engine braking instead of foot brake but in addition to, just letting your foot off the throttle will slow the vehicle. People should be aware what’s going on around and in front of them and be driving to conditions anyway


Its designed to be 70/30 - 60/40 split, thats why big disc at the front and small or drums at back.


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## Caz (Jun 2, 2021)

barge1914 said:


> I wonder what British driving instructor teaches on Alpine descents?


British driving instructors don't teach in Alpine regions. Unless they've qualified over there as well.


Lemut said:


> How would you deal with the situation in an automatic? From a distant memory there was '3rd' gear but I can't remember seeing a first and second option.


All the automatic cars I've driven have had 1st and 2nd gears, one had a 3rd as well. I don't know about trucks.


mark61 said:


> Using gears/engine braking to slow down for roundabouts, junctions, speed limits, etc is not the same as using a low gear to assist in controlling speed on a very long decent.


Exactly, well said. I think a few on here are getting the two things confused.
"Gears to go, brakes to slow" has been the official teaching in the UK since the early 90s, but then we do have a lot of people here who passed their Tests before then, I suppose.
@Greengrass - spot on as well, if you needed 2nd gear to get up the hill then it's 2nd coming down again.

However, this relates to cars and light vehicles, I've never been taught to drive a big truck.


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## tidewatcher (Jun 2, 2021)

Two scenarios really. Using engine braking sensibly on a long descent can keep the disc temperatures down, I saw a car driver call the AA out on Dartmoor because of a ”funny hot smell” from the front of the car. Generally down a gear and intermittent braking works for me and leaves plenty in the braking bank if extra stopping is needed. Maybe a throwback to my old motor sport days when I had the front discs glowing a nice dull red on my Cooper S. When approaching a hazard dropping down the gears just means you are in the right gear to accelerate away if the hazard is less severe than expected. Now don’t mention using a lower gear and throttle closed on an old two stroke motorbike…..


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## Nabsim (Jun 2, 2021)

It’s obvious those up us who took their test in the black and white days were taught something different. We were also taught to leave the car in 1st or reverse to prevent roll away which I don’t think is taught now either. I know for a fact you can experience handbrake releasing when brakes cool on at least one modern (last 10 years) vehicle as we had it happen a few times at work.

Anyone for double de-clutch?


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## Tookey (Jun 2, 2021)

Caz said:


> British driving instructors don't teach in Alpine regions. Unless they've qualified over there as well.
> 
> All the automatic cars I've driven have had 1st and 2nd gears, one had a 3rd as well. I don't know about trucks.
> 
> ...


It makes sense now as I learnt in 93 and don't remember anything taught other than using brakes to slow


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## brian c (Jun 2, 2021)

Hi I was taught that when going downhill in the 5 ton truck we were taught in.   Pull handbrake  up 3 clicks  then change down double de clutching. Then release handbrake   And to do that every time going downhill down gearing.   Brian


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## trevskoda (Jun 2, 2021)

tidewatcher said:


> Two scenarios really. Using engine braking sensibly on a long descent can keep the disc temperatures down, I saw a car driver call the AA out on Dartmoor because of a ”funny hot smell” from the front of the car. Generally down a gear and intermittent braking works for me and leaves plenty in the braking bank if extra stopping is needed. Maybe a throwback to my old motor sport days when I had the front discs glowing a nice dull red on my Cooper S. When approaching a hazard dropping down the gears just means you are in the right gear to accelerate away if the hazard is less severe than expected. Now don’t mention using a lower gear and throttle closed on an old two stroke motorbike…..


Ore a Wartberg/Saab.


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