# What's up with the UK?



## RichardA

Dear Wilcampers,

I'm sure that you, like me, have become increasingly frustrated with the increasing number of signs prohibiting overnight camping/parking. I've long wondered why the British psyche is so different from the French in this respect. It's almost as if it's now on the school curriculum - a module in how to keep camper vans at bay. Whilst the French have a contrary module - how to welcome campervanners with open arms.

I've now decided to start writing to car park owners to ask why the prohibition. Started with a local wildlife trust who have just erected a height barrier over their car park - for no reason I can think of. If that place was in France, it would be the perfect stopover.

Maybe mass letter (email) writing will help effect some sort of dent in this cancer?

Angry from Winscombe (aka Richard)


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## Snapster

I remember when I was young, playing in the street, there was always some miserable sods who insisted on telling you to “play up your own end” or similar. 
A few weeks ago, we were in Thetford by the river and some children were playing in the river, meanwhile, on the opposite bank was a man, watching and looking disapprovingply with his hands on his hips. ( He or someone wrote to the paper next day complaining about this)
These are just two examples, but, with this seemingly common British attitude, the UK will never have the same relaxed outlook as the rest of Europe to people enjoying themselves.


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## Fisherman

RichardA said:


> Dear Wilcampers,
> 
> I'm sure that you, like me, have become increasingly frustrated with the increasing number of signs prohibiting overnight camping/parking. I've long wondered why the British psyche is so different from the French in this respect. It's almost as if it's now on the school curriculum - a module in how to keep camper vans at bay. Whilst the French have a contrary module - how to welcome campervanners with open arms.
> 
> I've now decided to start writing to car park owners to ask why the prohibition. Started with a local wildlife trust who have just erected a height barrier over their car park - for no reason I can think of. If that place was in France, it would be the perfect stopover.
> 
> Maybe mass letter (email) writing will help effect some sort of dent in this cancer?
> 
> Angry from Winscombe (aka Richard)



I completely agree with your sentiment.
But unfortunately you will not be supported by some within our own community.
You will get the usual comments, like you will only make matters worse, why don’t you get a life, your wasting your time, don’t hold your breath, why don’t you just go to a campsite, you are a freeloader, or even better things are fine just the way they are.


I had a serious of pms on here with a man who dedicated much time to fighting for better treatment for us. He sadly concluded that what he felt was most difficult was not convincing those outside our community that they were behaving wrongly towards us, but convincing those from within.
Hopefully things will improve in years to come, even if it’s only for those who will follow us. But all the best with your quest.


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## RichardA

Fisherman said:


> I completely agree with your sentiment.
> But unfortunately you will not be supported by some within our own community.
> You will get the usual comments, like you will only make matters worse, why don’t you get a life, your wasting your time, don’t hold your breath, why don’t you just go to a campsite, you are a freeloader, or even better things are fine just the way they are.
> 
> 
> I had a serious of pms on here with a man who dedicated much time to fighting for better treatment for us. He sadly concluded that what he felt was most difficult was not convincing those outside our community that they were behaving wrongly towards us, but convincing those from within.
> Hopefully things will improve in years to come, even if it’s only for those who will follow us. But all the best with your quest.


Fisherman,

Interesting reflection on some members of our 'home grown' campervanning community. But presumably they should be reading other online forums? The name says it all; "Wildcamping.co.uk"!

Richard


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## Fisherman

RichardA said:


> Fisherman,
> 
> Interesting reflection on some members of our 'home grown' campervanning community. But presumably they should be reading other online forums? The name says it all; "Wildcamping.co.uk"!
> 
> Richard



Well Richard we all have our opinions.

Perhaps you should take a look at the campra posts on here.
Possibly even join in.
Last I heard they had over 5000 members, and seem to be influential in whats happening in the highlands.

Again all the best to you in your quest.


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## molly 2

We pay road tax  but can't  park  on some roads ???  Or on our own drives


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## trevskoda

I got a ticket once for parking out of bay in ballymena co antrim, well after looking up the EU regs it was clear that all carparks MUST provide one bay or two for a rigid truck and one for a artic, i tried fighting them on it but after many letters i had to pay up, at moment fighting another one which i will go to jail first before paying.
Those that try to control these days make their own rules and force them legaly or not down peoples throat.
AS for letting you park a motorhome in a carpark, well you have as much chance as i have of winning the euro millions, it is time these faceless people were taken to task big time, if every one in the uk stopped paying there road tax then and only then will they listen, maybe.


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## Fisherman

trevskoda said:


> AS for letting you park a motorhome in a carpark, well you have as much chance as i have of winning the euro millions, it is time these faceless people were taken to task big time, if every one in the uk stopped paying there road tax then and only then will they listen, maybe.



Trev no point in taking people to task, if you reckon our chances of changing minds are less than the odds of winning lotto.
And it’s not just about taking people to task, it’s about trying to change how we are perceived  by others. You posted on here recently that when you tell folk what you do they ask you is that legal. That’s one of the things that has to change, the attitude that simply parking in a car park is somehow illegal in a Motorhome.


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## trevskoda

Fisherman said:


> Trev no point in taking people to task, if you reckon our chances of changing minds are less than the odds of winning lotto.
> And it’s not just about taking people to task, it’s about trying to change how we are perceived  by others. You posted on here recently that when you tell folk what you do they ask you is that legal. That’s one of the things that has to change, the attitude that simply parking in a car park is somehow illegal in a Motorhome.


I agree but for some weird res folk have this in there head, prob got to do with travelers, beats me though.
But im sure you agree with me that those up stairs in power make there own rules right or wrong, and we pay being fools.


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## RichardA

What I don't understand (and what prompted me to write this post in the first instance) is why the British attitude to campervanners is so diametrically opposed to the French. What is it in their psyche, in their tradition, in their expectations that leads them to actively encourage campervanning? And on the other hand, why are the Brits so seemingly terrified by it?

Something to chew on!

Richard


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## Fisherman

RichardA said:


> What I don't understand (and what prompted me to write this post in the first instance) is why the British attitude to campervanners is so diametrically opposed to the French. What is it in their psyche, in their tradition, in their expectations that leads them to actively encourage campervanning? And on the other hand, why are the Brits so seemingly terrified by it?
> 
> Something to chew on!
> 
> Richard



Richard it’s not just the French it’s basically the rest of the free world. The whole of Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand and others don’t have our attitudes.
I suspect if someone in these countries wanted to stop us from parking it would be made more difficult, and their actions would have to be accountable. we keep hearing it’s because of travellers, well all these countries have the same issues.
Basically we have to stop being treated as a problem, and sadly some of us have to learn how to behave. But in saying that our behaviour is no worse and possibly better than others who use these facilities.


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## SHABBINS

The French pitch lifestyle way above business, government and money. They are so proud of their towns and villages they provide places for travellers to visit and stay with welcoming facilities. Most English people would be horrified to have 6 motorhomes pitched up close to their castle. The majority of visiting French travellers treat these facilities with respect and give online thanks to local councils. Many are resident for months but keep the places spotless. Some  frown on English tourists as we enjoy the facilities in France but do not provide any in the UK for visiting French motorhomes.
 Some will add continental horror stories to counter this view but this was our experience during a 90 day trip this year.


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## barryd

Sadly I think Covid may well have been the final nail in the coffin for wilding in the UK.  I am a member of this Facebook group "NC 500 the land weeps"  https://www.facebook.com/groups/616510159069958 which is pretty much a group that in the main is very anti wild camping, anti tent and motorhome etc.  I joined with the intention of fighting out corner in as diplomatic way as possible but it is clear from the many reports that since Covid raised its ugly head many of our beauty spots (not just in scotland) have been overrun by morons.  

Sadly we are only as good as our lowest common denominator and without doubt there are people acting irresponsibly.  The Lakes now has clamped down on wilding and are moving people on in the middle of the night and issuing fines.  Further legislation may follow.  I was hoping we could use it as a reason for Aires and public service points but I dont hold out much hope. However I believe the Aires system in France got going because many places were being overrun with motorhomes many years ago so instead of banning them they created aires.  Could that happen here? I wont hold my breath.

For me though I never follow the crowds. If I go wilding its as remote as possible and never in a group of vans.


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## trevskoda

What folk dont understand is the fact that our gov want us to pay for everything, but not run by them, so go to a private run camp site where the gov collect vat and tax without having the bother if they were to it direct through a council, also some of the council big boys own land and c/sites, get the picture, we are born to be a product of money extraction for toffs.


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## Fisherman

trevskoda said:


> What folk dont understand is the fact that our gov want us to pay for everything, but not run by them, so go to a private run camp site where the gove collect vat and tax without having the bother if they were to it direct through a council, also some of the council big boys own land and c/sites, get the picture, we are born to be a product of money extraction fo toffs.



But Trev they provide facilities, for everyone else it seems apart from us. Car drivers, cyclists, HGV, buses, etc. I reckon it’s got more to do with attitudes within the general public in this country. Hopefully things will change, their are glimmers of hope here and there.


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## Tookey

RichardA said:


> What I don't understand (and what prompted me to write this post in the first instance) is why the British attitude to campervanners is so diametrically opposed to the French. What is it in their psyche, in their tradition, in their expectations that leads them to actively encourage campervanning? And on the other hand, why are the Brits so seemingly terrified by it?
> 
> Something to chew on!
> 
> Richard


I am unsure whether the same perceptions exists in France but in the UK I feel 'class' also plays a part. Owning a caravan/motorhome or hiring a caravan for a site holiday is considered by many to be a very working class pass time and it is likely that there is some truth in that, especially during the 80's and 90's when the more affluent were flying. The British working class use to have a reputation for being 'rough around the edges' but also for working hard and having their moral compass intact and although they were the 'lower' class they were still respected.

Due to the press and the tele people are now more likely to associate the working class with a gobby person moaning about their benefits not covering the cost of living while they smoke a '10 quid a pack' fag with a 44inch tele playing Jeremy Kyle in the background. Think about the tele programmes, especially the 'reality' ones of recent years and what so called working class traits they highlight and magnify, the British working class has lost its 'salt of the earth' reputation and it has been replaced with an image of poor attitude and bad behaviour. A working class couple doing 50 hour weeks, paying their taxes, respecting their community, putting decent quality food on their kids plates and encouraging their kids to do well at school etc does not make good tele/press.

Organisations such as councils and the National Trust as an example are frequently made up of middle class individuals who as previously stated consider motorhoming and caravanning to be a working class pastime (probably inaccurate in 2020). Some of their decision making will be based on the assumption that  the encouragement of camping will come at the cost of inviting poorly behaved and loud mouthed individuals that will not respect their land and the local communities. Although poor behavior can actually come with any level of class or education now more than ever before it is associated with the working class..................the media can take another bow


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## trevskoda

Fisherman said:


> But Trev they provide facilities, for everyone else it seems apart from us. Car drivers, cyclists, HGV, buses, etc. I reckon it’s got more to do with attitudes within the general public in this country. Hopefully things will change, their are glimmers of hope here and there.


Not may working class can aford a £100.000 van, and yes it is about time we got some things for us, but i remember boating was almost free when i was young, then when it became up market with fancy cruisers etc floating jettys with big sums of money came into play, and thats the way the toffs want it for vans, so for the last 30/40 years there has been no such thing as a free lunch & i dont see it changing much, look back in time and the parking meter was the start of it.


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## Fisherman

trevskoda said:


> Not may working class can aford a £100.000 van, and yes it is about time we got some things for us, but i remember boating was almost free when i was young, then when it became up market with fancy cruisers etc floating jettys with big sums of money came into play, and thats the way the toffs want it for vans, so for the last 30/40 years there has been no such thing as a free lunch & i dont see it changing much, look back in time and the parking meter was the start of it.



Trev motorhoming has taken off in the last ten years.
I tend to think that some catch up is needed.
There are some good things happening up here.
The government makes billions from this industry.
it’s not in anyone’s interest to spoil a lucrative industry.
It won’t cost much to change things for the better.
Just a change in perspective from some, and better behaviour from a minority of us. And education will go a long way Trev.


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## molly 2

I some times think we are  our  own worst enemy posting photos  of  motorhomes  ,dumping waist   ,draining  tanks   emptying  cassettes  in rivers  all makes bad press for us all and   to the  joy of all organisations that dislike  us ,you never see reports of motorhomers cleaning up other peoples rubbish  and dog  crap that happens more than  often   than the bad press. We get.


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## Tookey

Most social groups and organisations go through 'peaks n troughs' of popularity with the press and therefore the public, football fans, soldiers, church even Oxfam etc have all had there turn at been vilified due to the behaviour of the few and it so happens it's our turn presently. It will pass

ACAB.......all campers are


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## Biggarmac

Fisherman said:


> Perhaps you should take a look at the campra posts on here.
> Possibly even join in.
> Last I heard they had over 5000 members, and seem to be influential in whats happening in the highlands.


CAMpRA now have over 13k members.  Highland council are encouraging anyone with a bit of spare land to provide facilities for Motorcaravans.
For those of you who don't use facebook CAMpRA now have a working website.  www.campra.org.uk.


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## Fisherman

Biggarmac said:


> CAMpRA now have over 13k members.  Highland council are encouraging anyone with a bit of spare land to provide facilities for Motorcaravans.
> For those of you who don't use facebook CAMpRA now have a working website.  www.campra.org.uk.



I have been on the website.
The standard letters are a useful tool.
Heres hoping they can create a positive momentum towards common sense.
Something sadly lacking towards us in this country right now


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## trevskoda

Try opening up land here and the council will be round with their henchmen within days, never mind folks getting a petition going to stop you.
I have had them here because i have a caravan for storage and had two cars and van on drive, there rules state one car boat or caravan, i told them where to go before i got nasty, and never heard from them again.


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## yorkieowl

SHABBINS said:


> The French pitch lifestyle way above business, government and money. They are so proud of their towns and villages they provide places for travellers to visit and stay with welcoming facilities. Most English people would be horrified to have 6 motorhomes pitched up close to their castle.


I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with your first sentence.  Money being the main one. Why provide a cheap parking space when you can force motorhomers to use an overpriced campsite? Even with all the anti motor home hype with Covid,  sales have gone through the roof so it’s still not stopping people wanting to follow the ‘dream’.  Unfortunately I think more full timers  than ever will be doing it through necessity, and councils etc don’t want ‘that sort’ cluttering up car parks. Just my opinion mind.


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## Fisherman

yorkieowl said:


> I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with your first sentence.  Money being the main one. Why provide a cheap parking space when you can force motorhomers to use an overpriced campsite? Even with all the anti motor home hype with Covid,  sales have gone through the roof so it’s still not stopping people wanting to follow the ‘dream’.  Unfortunately I think more full timers  than ever will be doing it through necessity, and councils etc don’t want ‘that sort’ cluttering up car parks. Just my opinion mind.



The problems with this are manifold.
First there are not enough campsites to take us all.
Most Campsites are only open 6 months of the year.
Councils don’t need to provide anything that is not already there.
The vast majority of carparks are empty at night.
The problem is not lack of carparks, but a lack of available carparks due to barriers and signage, most of which is completely unnecessary and unacceptable.
If things don't change eventually folk may start to withdraw from buying Motorhomes, creating a loss of several billion to HM treasury, and additional unemployment.
Cost is almost a non issue, it’s attitudes towards us that have to change, and changing attitudes costs nothing.


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## yorkieowl

Fisherman said:


> The problems with this are manifold.
> First there are not enough campsites to take us all.
> Most Campsites are only open 6 months of the year.
> Councils don’t need to provide anything that is not already there.
> The vast majority of carparks are empty at night.
> The problem is not lack of carparks, but a lack of available carparks due to barriers and signage, most of which is completely unnecessary and unacceptable.
> If things don't change eventually folk may start to withdraw from buying Motorhomes, creating a loss of several billion to HM treasury, and additional unemployment.
> Cost is almost a non issue, it’s attitudes towards us that have to change, and changing attitudes costs nothing.


Not enough campsites - at present - but plenty of farmers/landowners needing (or wanting), to diversify, and this gives them the perfect opportunity.


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## Fisherman

yorkieowl said:


> Not enough campsites - at present - but plenty of farmers/landowners needing (or wanting), to diversify, and this gives them the perfect opportunity.



Most farms are in rural locations.
Most of the problems posters are having are with regards to urban locations.
And urban locations are less well served by campsites.
If some farmers wish to provide campsites or CLs, that would be helpful.
But ultimately what’s required are more locations in urban areas.
Up here there is no shortage of locations in rural Scotland.


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## Val54

Fisherman said:


> Richard it’s not just the French it’s basically the rest of the free world. The whole of Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand and others don’t have our attitudes.
> I suspect if someone in these countries wanted to stop us from parking it would be made more difficult, and their actions would have to be accountable. we keep hearing it’s because of travellers, well all these countries have the same issues.
> Basically we have to stop being treated as a problem, and sadly some of us have to learn how to behave. But in saying that our behaviour is no worse and possibly better than others who use these facilities.



It is true that most european countries have issues with travellers, but to simply classify these as being the same misses a fundamental point. Using France as the current "ideal" provider of Aires, the attitude to travellers in the general population is basically the same as in the UK. However the French deal with traveller incursions in a very different manner. At one extreme, deportation of "Roma" is not uncommon whilst municipalities of more than 5000 population have a legal requirement to provide what we would call a transit site. Travellers are not allowed to exceed 3% of the municipalities's population and must stop at designated "transit sites". Unlike in the UK, travellers stopping anywhere other than a designated site can be moved on with no further recourse. I'm not advocating the French approach, but it does explain why they feel able to provide "aires" in the knowledge that French law will deal robustly and quickly with traveller incursions. In the UK our response is usually height barriers; Scotland, particularly the Highlands can hopefully be more open to providing facilities as traveller issues are not as prevalent.


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## Fisherman

Val54 said:


> It is true that most european countries have issues with travellers, but to simply classify these as being the same misses a fundamental point. Using France as the current "ideal" provider of Aires, the attitude to travellers in the general population is basically the same as in the UK. However the French deal with traveller incursions in a very different manner. At one extreme, deportation of "Roma" is not uncommon whilst municipalities of more than 5000 population have a legal requirement to provide what we would call a transit site. Travellers are not allowed to exceed 3% of the municipalities's population and must stop at designated "transit sites". Unlike in the UK, travellers stopping anywhere other than a designated site can be moved on with no further recourse. I'm not advocating the French approach, but it does explain why they feel able to provide "aires" in the knowledge that French law will deal robustly and quickly with traveller incursions. In the UK our response is usually height barriers; Scotland, particularly the Highlands can hopefully be more open to providing facilities as traveller issues are not as prevalent.



Travellers are an issue but I reckon they are in most cases used as an excuse to implement actions that severely hamper us. What prevents us from parking in many places has in reality got nothing to do with travellers, and everything to do with a poor attitude towards us. An attitude at times based on ignorance.
You only have to look at the press coverage in this country. Clearly most of the issues covered since lockdown down have nothing to do with us, but we are blamed. We even have an mp who reckons we should pay to drive on public roads, never mind denying us parking spaces.

But I try to be a glass half full man, and I reckon that things will improve.
let’s wait and see.


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## Val54

Fisherman said:


> Travellers are an issue but I reckon they are in most cases used as an excuse to implement actions that severely hamper us. What prevents us from parking in many places has in reality got nothing to do with travellers, and everything to do with a poor attitude towards us. An attitude at times based on ignorance.
> You only have to look at the press coverage in this country. Clearly most of the issues covered since lockdown down have nothing to do with us, but we are blamed. We even have an mp who reckons we should pay to drive on public roads, never mind denying us parking spaces.
> 
> But I try to be a glass half full man, and I reckon that things will improve.
> let’s wait and see.



Like you I hope we have reached the bottom as far as bad press is concerned but that will depend on what happens next year in terms of Covid, let's hope we can all travel freely and those who have caused most havoc can return to their normal stomping grounds in Magaluf and Ibiza.


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## vwalan

biggest problem is so many motorhomers dont know how to behave when free camping . 
tables and chairs outside .bbq,s . gas bottles outside etc etc front windows blocked over with screens or curtains . 
best keep cab /front windows just like a parked vehicle. unfortunately the bad behavior spoils it for the good free campers . 
drove up through cornwall and devon today saw loads of free campers actually doing it properly and they werent being moved on .


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## trevskoda

yorkieowl said:


> Not enough campsites - at present - but plenty of farmers/landowners needing (or wanting), to diversify, and this gives them the perfect opportunity.


Thats until one tries to milk you.


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## RichardA

Biggarmac said:


> CAMpRA now have over 13k members.  Highland council are encouraging anyone with a bit of spare land to provide facilities for Motorcaravans.
> For those of you who don't use facebook CAMpRA now have a working website.  www.campra.org.uk.


Fisherman/Biggarmac,

Thanks for pointing out 'Campra'. I'd never heard of it. Will definitley get involved.

Richard


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## Tonybvi

Strangely enough I’m beginning to see a change in attitudes up here in Scotland.  I reckon that the pandemic has highlighted the problems to the extent that quite a few organisations are looking to solve them by providing facilities for motorhomers rather than simply telling them to go away.  See my post “what a welcome sight” elsewhere on this forum, and I see this attitude being repeated elsewhere.  Our local paper (P & J) has carried several articles recently which have been far more encouraging than the negative press of a month or so back, including those from landowners offering to install facilities for motorhomers.  Let’s keep our fingers crossed that the wind is changing direction for us.


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## Deleted member 51254

RichardA said:


> Dear Wilcampers,
> 
> I'm sure that you, like me, have become increasingly frustrated with the increasing number of signs prohibiting overnight camping/parking. I've long wondered why the British psyche is so different from the French in this respect. It's almost as if it's now on the school curriculum - a module in how to keep camper vans at bay. Whilst the French have a contrary module - how to welcome campervanners with open arms.
> 
> I've now decided to start writing to car park owners to ask why the prohibition. Started with a local wildlife trust who have just erected a height barrier over their car park - for no reason I can think of. If that place was in France, it would be the perfect stopover.
> 
> Maybe mass letter (email) writing will help effect some sort of dent in this cancer?
> 
> Angry from Winscombe (aka Richard)


Have you considered joining the CamPra group on Facebook. They are campaigning for UK Aires. Have have a look on line.


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## maureenandtom

Snapster said:


> I remember when I was young, playing in the street, there was always some miserable sods who insisted on telling you to “play up your own end” or similar.
> A few weeks ago, we were in Thetford by the river and some children were playing in the river, meanwhile, on the opposite bank was a man, watching and looking disapprovingply with his hands on his hips. ( He or someone wrote to the paper next day complaining about this)
> These are just two examples, but, with this seemingly common British attitude, the UK will never have the same relaxed outlook as the rest of Europe to people enjoying themselves.



I've got to tell you this.  One of Maureen's neighbours is a very personable young man about 10 yrs old.  Pleasant friendly little chap.  Annoyingly, during the warm weather his street football quite often spread from the street to Maureen's lawn.    Slightly exasperated, in a friendly enough way I hope, I said something like - _why don't you go and play at your own front door.?

"Me mam won't let me."_

I'm not really a miserable sod and I had to laugh at that.


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## Tookey

maureenandtom said:


> I've got to tell you this.  One of Maureen's neighbours is a very personable young man about 10 yrs old.  Pleasant friendly little chap.  Annoyingly, during the warm weather his street football quite often spread from the street to Maureen's lawn.    Slightly exasperated, in a friendly enough way I hope, I said something like - _why don't you go and play at your own front door.?
> 
> "Me mam won't let me."_
> 
> I'm not really a miserable sod and I had to laugh at that.


Give him a quid each week to mow it and he might look after it better..........or might treat it as his, unsure which


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## n brown

the difference between us and the French .  [generally speaking]
we are an island race living on an overpopulated island, and have an insular mentality . we have a fear of strangers and the unknown ,quietly encouraged by our lords and masters over the centuries to keep us yoked to the plough . 
 the French have a massive ,underpopulated country, and can travel all over the place ,by foot if that's all they have ,and not get their feet wet . strangers aren't something to fear, they're interesting . last time they had a ruck with their lords and masters ,they chopped their heads off . 
brits see strangers as potential aggravation ,and just want them to conform or go away , French see a chance to make a few quid , have a chat and maybe laugh up their sleeves a bit at the foreigners


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## vwalan

RichardA said:


> Dear Wilcampers,
> 
> I'm sure that you, like me, have become increasingly frustrated with the increasing number of signs prohibiting overnight camping/parking. I've long wondered why the British psyche is so different from the French in this respect. It's almost as if it's now on the school curriculum - a module in how to keep camper vans at bay. Whilst the French have a contrary module - how to welcome campervanners with open arms.
> 
> I've now decided to start writing to car park owners to ask why the prohibition. Started with a local wildlife trust who have just erected a height barrier over their car park - for no reason I can think of. If that place was in France, it would be the perfect stopover.
> 
> Maybe mass letter (email) writing will help effect some sort of dent in this cancer?
> 
> Angry from Winscombe (aka Richard)


mind maybe you dont remember that years ago m,homes in france werent allowed on campsites . 
then the motorhome clubs and manufacturers got together and thats when m,homers in france parked and camped all over the place. railway stations etc blocking carparks etc . that how france got aires. 
i remember as a child going with my parents in camper vans or pulling a caravan and not being allowed on campsites  etc . 
continental frame tents ruled over there then. some camped up all summer and the father went home in the week for work but mums stayed on site with the kids. 
they were amazed at uk caravans etc . 
spain was almost as bad in the 60,s.


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## Snapster

Not sure how far back you are going there, but we used to travel round France in VW campers, a caravan and an old Ford CI motorhome in the early 80’s to late 90’s. We used campsites and on a couple of occasions wildcamped. We weren’t aware of Aires available at that time, so campsites ( always Municipal-sites) were what we used and always got a space, even in August.


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## vwalan

1960,s 70,s and early 80,s no aires . cant remember the year they started but in the 60,s 70,s early 80,s they didnt really like m,homes .
mind we travelled in alsorts of vehicles vw splitties , converted buses etc .
not all campsites were awkward but lots were.
mind there certainly was a lot of vw campers with malibu surfboards on top from uk then as well. 
just following the coast around brittany then france ,spain ,portugal then across to morocco. 
plus lots of hippy,s there as well.


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## n brown

i have a vague memory of staying a night once on a camping municipal football stadium . bleak kind of place  . we probably spent about 4 years in France ,had a squat for about 18 months ,rest of the time we wild camped , but we didn't call it that .had very little bother, got moved on by the cops from that lake at the end of Gorge du Verdun  ,  along with about 30 other vans , but to be fair ,it was the height of the season ,the camping was just over the road ,  we were there about 8 weeks and there was a large ''camping sauvage interdit '' sign ,first i'd ever seen . cops were friendly enough but adamant, so we left without a fuss ,many were drunk but the flics said they didn't care just ''allez vites!!''


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## microcamp

Snapster said:


> I remember when I was young, playing in the street, there was always some miserable sods who insisted on telling you to “play up your own end” or similar.
> A few weeks ago, we were in Thetford by the river and some children were playing in the river, meanwhile, on the opposite bank was a man, watching and looking disapprovingply with his hands on his hips. ( He or someone wrote to the paper next day complaining about this)
> These are just two examples, but, with this seemingly common British attitude, the UK will never have the same relaxed outlook as the rest of Europe to people enjoying themselves.


Regretfully so true they need to get a life


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## rugbyken

i was told by a frenchman that the concept of aires was bought in after WW11 to encourage mixing between the french themselves as they were very provincial and that fracture was found during the war thus by encouraging mixing the regions became more integrated,
    over ten years ago i saw a french policeman dealing with travellers while we were on the aire at honfleur the travellers had set up camp over the weekend on the lidl car park on the corner, we first saw the gendarme talking to the store manager he went over to the travellers & basically pointed to his watch telling them they had to go couldn’t hear the details but just under an hour later he reappears with a JCB behind him within 5 mins the caravans were loaded & they moved out, the point not being whether this action was right or wrong but that everyone knew that the gendarme would carry out the action he’d threatened,


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## Deleted member 48306

If it says no camping or no overnight sleeping on a car park dont stop the night some of us are our own worst enemy the more people that brake that rule the more height barriers will go up we have all seen it happen more and more over the years a rant I know but yet again one of the best spot ever in cornwall just got a total ban for motorhomes I'm gutted


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## Snapster

That’s the problem with the UK. If your doing something the council or govt dont like, they ban it or legislate against it. No thoughts on how to offer an alternative solution.


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## trevskoda

Police here cannot move travelers on as there is always one or two about to have a baby, or with a infant, human rights kick in and they know how to work the sys.


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## molly 2

Fisherman said:


> Trev motorhoming has taken off in the last ten years.
> I tend to think that some catch up is needed.
> There are some good things happening up here.
> The government makes billions from this industry.


 look how much more thay could take it all campers were forced on to sites . As they say if you want to have fun you gotta pay for the ride


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## Debroos

nosfunk said:


> If it says no camping or no overnight sleeping on a car park dont stop the night some of us are our own worst enemy the more people that brake that rule the more height barriers will go up we have all seen it happen more and more over the years a rant I know but yet again one of the best spot ever in cornwall just got a total ban for motorhomes I'm gutted



Where would that be?


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## Debroos

trevskoda said:


> Police here cannot move travelers on as there is always one or two about to have a baby, or with a infant, human rights kick in and they know how to work the sys.


It must be the same in France though.....


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## trevskoda

Big problem with campers is they stop in bad places, ie in front of hotels houses facing the sea, village car parks with maybe only a few bays, then they get the deck chairs and tables plus a barby out and then complain about folks kicking up a stink.


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## molly 2

trevskoda said:


> Big problem with campers is they stop in bad places, ie in front of hotels houses facing the sea, village car parks with maybe only a few bays, then they get the deck chairs and tables plus a barby out and then complain about folks kicking up a stink.


Yerbut , but ,but, it's perfectly ok if you take them out of the car boot ,sometimes they even get flask and butties out and pore tea leaves on the ground .I even saw a bloke walk to the woods for a pp .the car park owner will put 4 ft hight
 barriers in ,  who will they blame next .innit.


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## trevskoda

molly 2 said:


> Yerbut , but ,but, it's perfectly ok if you take them out of the car boot ,sometimes they even get flask and butties out and pore tea leaves on the ground .I even saw a bloke walk to the woods for a pp .the car park owner will put 4 ft hight
> barriers in ,  who will they blame next .innit.


When you drink tea you gota wee.


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## Deleted member 48306

Bowgie inn car park looking over crantock best sunsets ever


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## rugbyken

this time last year we were on the beach at punta umbría about a dozen vans and at the weekend couple of hundred cars there are couple of beach bars but most of the family’s had gazebos & bbqs on the beach most of the day you could see people crossing the road to the sand dunes openly carrying loo rolls obviously people always need a loo, 
       if you have on board facilities you are in a different situation in our case i need to use services every 5 days but over in portugal we were on a surfers beach took the dog for a walk went to go in a caned area and a guy called out & said that’s the toilet area they all had old day van campers or unconverted vans so just nominated an area,


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## sashskelly

RichardA said:


> Dear Wilcampers,
> 
> I'm sure that you, like me, have become increasingly frustrated with the increasing number of signs prohibiting overnight camping/parking. I've long wondered why the British psyche is so different from the French in this respect. It's almost as if it's now on the school curriculum - a module in how to keep camper vans at bay. Whilst the French have a contrary module - how to welcome campervanners with open arms.
> 
> I've now decided to start writing to car park owners to ask why the prohibition. Started with a local wildlife trust who have just erected a height barrier over their car park - for no reason I can think of. If that place was in France, it would be the perfect stopover.
> 
> Maybe mass letter (email) writing will help effect some sort of dent in this cancer?
> 
> Angry from Winscombe (aka Richard)


I am 69 years of age and am glad that I am coming to the end of my motorhoming in the next few years due to age.I am fed up of being included in those that constantly abuse stopovers and so tar us all with the same brush.I have been abroad many times and yes we are treated so differently there particularly in France.It is a pleasure to tour there and use the aires provided as they have a very positive attitude towards us.However I have personally seen French motorhomers tipping toilet waste in the sea and on land on numerous occasions so it isnt just us Brits that are guilty apparently.....will it change in the future that acts like this will stop...I dont think so.As regards the proposed Scottish aires I very very much doubt they will be run as the French FREE aire system...in true British fashion they will used as a cash cow by local authorities and so yet again they will put up with us in exchange for us being fleeced...that is the Brit way...there is a sign at the viewpoint at the Bridge of Orchy that clearly states that all are welcome to stop and use the tarmaced viewpoint BUT NOT MOTORHOMES by order of the highland council..that is the attitude we are up against and no matter how much we carp on about how we are treated things will never alter .....so to get back to the beginning of this missive I am glad I am not at the beginning of motorhoming having had seen the best


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## trevskoda

Last post is 100% true, when i was young we had a we house in Islandmagee, the harbour was free and we left a small boat on the upper sand bank, nop you cannot and have to pay, lough neagh was free to, now a launching fee there  also, i remember yellow lines and parking meters coming to Belfast, yep more money, if they ever have a charge for farting im buggered.


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