# State of emergency Spain and Portugal



## redhand (Mar 13, 2020)

Perhaps it's time in view of todays developments to start a thread sharing info re restrictions on movement etc
ww are currently in portugal due to start returning in 2 weeks if we can !!


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## Mr and Mrs Tupcox (Mar 13, 2020)

We set of this morning .roads fine but there is panic buying in stores..
Now at Murcia stop over , heading to jaca tomorrow.


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## Topmast (Mar 13, 2020)

It was reported in Tomar yesterday that panic buying was happening in all the supermarkets I suspect this will be short lived , but if coming with motorhome I suggest you bring plenty of supplies.also a lot of gatherings are being cancelled.


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## kenspain (Mar 13, 2020)

My friend that is staying at our place in Portugal when I spoke to him last night said it was ok there a few English going a bit mad in the Supermarkets but the locals  just going on as normal


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## groyne (Mar 13, 2020)

Still quite civilised in Sintra, we're parked next to a Lidl, they've got toilets, so we might stay here for the duration.


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## alwaysared (Mar 13, 2020)

kenspain said:


> My friend that is staying at our place in Portugal when I spoke to him last night said it was ok there a few English going a bit mad in the Supermarkets but the locals  just going on as normal



My brother is there at the moment and he said the same, actually seems like the safest place to be at the moment  

Regards,
Del


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## jacquigem (Mar 13, 2020)

Valencia have shut all bars and restaurants for 14 days in the entire region . Understand panic buying emptying shelves in La Marina (here) and also I understand in Garrucha


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## Mr and Mrs Tupcox (Mar 13, 2020)




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## Deleted member 62288 (Mar 13, 2020)

Tarifa, Friday13th March 2020

Yesterday I did a 4 bagger trip to the local LIDLS in Tarifa, just a normal day with fully stocked shelves and the usual number of shoppers.

Today at  around midday, Tarifa soopermercardos all seeing panic buying and empty shelves.

Tarifa Port has shutdown operations, putting a stop the ferries between Spain & Tangiers as well as the commercial traffic.
That will strand a few motorhomers trying to return from the many organised group MH tours that are popular around Tarifa.

Looks like I am going to have to tolerate being under a blockade for a while.

Thankfully, Tarifa is a splendid place to be stranded, happy daze


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## QFour (Mar 13, 2020)

Campsites in Murcia not accepting new arrivals even if booked.


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## Topmast (Mar 13, 2020)

Don’t forget if you start running low on loo rolls Kenspain is doing a special deal on reused sorry I mean recycled ones at a good price.


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## redhand (Mar 13, 2020)

intermarche shelves in alvor seem fully stocked


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## Owlhouse (Mar 13, 2020)

redhand said:


> intermarche shelves in alvor seem fully stocked


Panic buying yesterday in Albufeira then today all shelves stocked with no problems. Locals bemused by tourists buying habits. Saw a couple buying two trolley loads of supplies wearing masks, locals staring in disbelief! As we were! 
Heading to Alvor Sunday from Mikki’s Place.


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## groyne (Mar 13, 2020)

A smartly dressed Woman wearing gloves got on the number 28 tram in Lisbon yesterday. She took them off opened the window and put them back on.


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## spigot (Mar 13, 2020)

We are near Estepona, 2nd week here.
All shelves fully stocked, no panic buying. 
What Virus?


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## Penny13 (Mar 13, 2020)

Mike it really is a nationwide pandemic, please be careful and look after yourselves. You are both in the most vulnerable group. Hand wash hand wash hand wash. Isolate yourselves in your little home until the worst blows over.


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## spigot (Mar 13, 2020)

Penny13 said:


> Mike it really is a nationwide pandemic, please be careful and look after yourselves. You are both in the most vulnerable group. Hand wash hand wash hand wash. Isolate yourselves in your little home until the worst blows over.


I agree, my doctor daughter told me to wash hands regularly & avoid crowded areas.
Was thinking of bussing into Estepona also visiting Malaga & Granada while we’re down here. That’s now out the window.


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## QFour (Mar 13, 2020)

spigot said:


> I agree, my doctor daughter told me to wash hands regularly & avoid crowded areas.
> Was thinking of bussing into Estepona also visiting Malaga & Granada while we’re down here. That’s now out the window.



So the penny has finally dropped ..


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## RichardHelen262 (Mar 13, 2020)

We are in Altea and yesterday the supermarkets were fine today the shelves are empty they are closing all the bars and restaurants, so in the morning we are going to head back to the uk


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## jeanette (Mar 14, 2020)

helen262 said:


> We are in Altea and yesterday the supermarkets were fine today the shelves are empty they are closing all the bars and restaurants, so in the morning we are going to head back to the uk



it’s basically the same in the UK with empty shelves


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## iampatman (Mar 14, 2020)

All shops with the exception of food shops, supermarkets and pharmacys will be closed in Murcia region for two weeks from Monday. Bars, restaurants will all be closed. Severe restrictions will be applied to people wishing to enter the region.

https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-03...ra-evitar-la-propagacion-del-coronavirus.html

Pat


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## Penny13 (Mar 14, 2020)

We have crossed from Spain into France at Jonquera no problem today. Lots of MH on the roads and supermarket car parks are looking busy but it is a Saturday. Safe travels all ...


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## Biggarmac (Mar 14, 2020)

At Albufeira campsite on CCC rally.  Only came to meet up with friends before going to investigate further north.  Staying where I am till things calm down.  My insurance does not run out till early June.  Hope things have calmed by then.


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

All very well staying on but suggest you read this read this








						Travel Advice and Advisories
					

Travel Advice and Advisories from the Government of Canada.




					travel.gc.ca
				




Interesting in that Canada is at 200cases and is tightening up

Uk now at 800 and still no FCO  general advice not to travel !


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## iampatman (Mar 14, 2020)

Here’s another link for you if you’re thinking of coming this way.









						<span style='color:#780948'>ARCHIVED</span> - Murcian government decrees enforced quarantine of Águilas, San Pedro, san Javier, Los Alcázares, Cartagena, La Unión and Mazarrón
					

<span Style='color:#780948'>archived</span> - Murcian Government Decrees Enforced Quarantine Of Águilas, San Pedro, San Javier, Los Alcázares, Cartagena, La Unión And Mazarrón Keep up with the Latest News In English Murcia Costa Calida Spain




					murciatoday.com
				




Safe travels,

Pat


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## kenspain (Mar 14, 2020)

Bars shut today   no football , but still got plenty of toilet paper if any of you have got the tommy-tits


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## Pauljenny (Mar 14, 2020)

We're staying close to our East Algarve village. 7 miles north of the coast.
Did our normal shopping at Sao Bras, yesterday.
Lidl was down to it's last available trolly, when we arrived at 9. 30.
Long queues at all 4 checkouts.
No UHT  milk , locals buying stocks of tins and bottled food.
We just added 4 tins of Tuna to our normal shop.
When we left at 10.25, the trolley racks we 3/4 full.
We might go early afternoon, next week...
If 4 tills were open, who was available for restocking ?


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## jacquigem (Mar 14, 2020)

Police shut the beach at La Marina today ,only about 100 people on and all well apart (mainly walkers) but now taped off . Motorhome in car park behind dunes ,dutch plates with 2 out in sunchairs in front . Did not seem bothered when I advised them the Police had turned up. Consum supermarket out of fresh meat but plenty of beer and long life milk , did not look for toilet roll. Just heard all Jet 2 flights to Spain and Islands cancelled as well


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## Penny13 (Mar 14, 2020)

Spanish Government making an announcement at 2pm. Found on another group who are heading home to Uk


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

Why are people staying in Spain..
It is going the way of Italy !


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## jacquigem (Mar 14, 2020)

Will it be any better in UK ?


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

No but at least you are "home" !


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

That is my train of thought as well !
Apologies for a jest in what is a huge problem !


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## mariesnowgoose (Mar 14, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> Why are people staying in Spain..
> It is going the way of Italy !





jacquigem said:


> *Will it be any better in UK ?*



No. Nobody knows exactly how it will pan out regardless of where you are.
(pan out - you see what did there?!    )

Advice just now on radio 4, "Make choices based on your own sense of risk".
Seems reasonable. It's most infectious when in close groups (proximity).

If you're out and about in your motorhome just stock up with supplies if/when needed and take all sensible precautions, especially if you are in the high risk group for potential death.

There's talk that a lot of big chains will be in dire straits, possibly going bust, if widespread lockdowns & restrictions continue for longer than the next 2 months.

Apparently we need to have *95% immunity* (herd immunity) within the population for the disease not to return, otherwise we could get another spike, maybe next winter or next year - hypothetically. There needs to be enough people to catch the virus whilst trying to protect the most vulnerable, i.e. elderly and those with underlying health conditions, while this process is happening.

Makes sense to me!


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> No. Nobody knows exactly how it will pan out regardless of where you are.
> (pan out - you see what did there?!    )
> 
> Advice just now on radio 4, "Make choices based on your own sense of risk".
> ...


I agree that is you can stay away from big aires/sostas/whatever you can reduce the risk..go home !


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## jacquigem (Mar 14, 2020)

mmm, home is where we park it !


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

Ok but I suggest life in a foreign hospital has its problems..
And what does your partner do meanwhile ..especially if they cannot drive !!!


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## mariesnowgoose (Mar 14, 2020)

... and if we don't flatten the spike the NHS is going to be overwhelmed and there will ultimately be more deaths than necessary.

It's a tightrope we're all walking.

I'm going to be self-isolating as much as I can over the coming months.
You guys should do whatever you think best according to your own personal circumstances.


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

jacquigem said:


> mmm, home is where we park it !


For us we are the same but we will choose to stay in UK..
OK similar problems for the partner but surely easier in UK ! (despite the government !)


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## Penny13 (Mar 14, 2020)

Spain in lockdown like Italy from Monday 16th March 









						PM due to make statement after seven-hour debate on state of alert measures
					

Draft decree includes banning all journeys in Spain apart from travel to work or to buy food. The delay on Saturday was reportedly due to differences between the Socialists and their coalition partners, Unidas Podemos




					english.elpais.com


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## BKen2 (Mar 14, 2020)

Advice just now on radio 4, "Make choices based on your own sense of risk". 
You cant leave it to individuals in cases like this ...there are too many selfish FU people out there ..


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## mariesnowgoose (Mar 14, 2020)

BKen2 said:


> Advice just now on radio 4, "Make choices based on your own sense of risk".
> You cant leave it to individuals in cases like this ...there are too many selfish FU people out there ..



Agree. I think governments have all been slow to react to the crisis, some more than others, and the lack of good Public Health Advice right from the beginning has been appalling.


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## Mr and Mrs Tupcox (Mar 14, 2020)

Crossed in to France at somport all ok ..


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

In the words of the song...
"Boris Johnson is a CLOWN, and everybody knows it..
I may have spelled "Clown" incorrectly!


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## kenspain (Mar 14, 2020)

So you don't go with out Ordes taken now


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## Fisherman (Mar 14, 2020)

Just back from Madeira, and reading about what they are doing to protect their citizens. On Tuesday when I was there they banned all cruise liners a massive decision for an island that makes 60% of its income from tourism. Then today they have banned all flights from countries were the virus has been found. I am trying not be over critical of our government, but it seems like we are putting money before lives, and Madeira is putting lives before money.


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## Wooie1958 (Mar 14, 2020)

kenspain said:


> So you don't go with out Ordes taken now












						Andrex Toilet Roll (200 sheets) Emergency Bog Roll.  | eBay
					

Condition is New. Not sure how much it'll cost so I've put it as two quid. If it costs less, I'll throw in a pocket sized hand sanitizer (used).



					www.ebay.co.uk


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Just back from Madeira, and reading about what they are doing to protect their citizens. On Tuesday when I was there they banned all cruise liners a massive decision for an island that makes 60% of its income from tourism. Then today they have banned all flights from countries were the virus has been found. I am trying not be over critical of our government, but it seems like we are putting money before lives, and Madeira is putting lives before money.


Not over critical 
Too slow or Too lazy or Too stupid just my opinion


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## mariesnowgoose (Mar 14, 2020)

I'll try not to be overly political (ok, maybe I'm fibbing a bit on that one)...

When did the current government *ever *put citizens' lives before money? 
In fact, it would be a distinct advantage to them if lots of us died, not that they care one way or the other.


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## mariesnowgoose (Mar 14, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> Not over critical
> Too slow or Too lazy or Too stupid just my opinion



Try adding too selfish into the mix


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

And some say Donald T was over-reacting.
I do not like the man but he was doing his job in protecting USA..discuss ?


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## QFour (Mar 14, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> In the words of the song...
> "Boris Johnson is a CLOWN, and everybody knows it..
> I may have spelled "Clown" incorrectly!



So what would you do if you had this lot dumped in your lap. 66+ million peoples lives in your hands. No one knows what will happen. It's evident that just locking things down could cause a dip in cases but what do you do when the riots start and people get fed up of being under curfew.

I know call in the Army and start shooting.


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## Owlhouse (Mar 14, 2020)

In Portugal it would seem that a lot of campsites will not accept new visitors from Monday 16th March for around two weeks. We are at Mikki’s Place for now, can think of far worse places to get stuck at. Weather taking a downturn mid next week for a few days so will just have to chill out for a while. 
Hopefully we won’t be too affected here but at least it’s warm. Stay safe.


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## jagmanx (Mar 14, 2020)

QFour said:


> So what would you do if you had this lot dumped in your lap. 66+ million peoples lives in your hands. No one knows what will happen. It's evident that just locking things down could cause a dip in cases but what do you do when the riots start and people get fed up of being under curfew.
> 
> I know call in the Army and start shooting.


Yes Very very difficult..but he has seen what happened in Italy..some Social distancing would have been a start...
I find the phrase  "We will make the right decisions at the right time based on the best scientific evidence." 
Similar to "Collective responsibility" ( Maggie Thatcher)
Or "Weapons of Mass Destruction" (Tony Blair) 
Fundamentally a denial of responsibility
I am not a "red under the bed" but ....
ALSO He wanted the job !


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## Debroos (Mar 14, 2020)

QFour said:


> So what would you do if you had this lot dumped in your lap. 66+ million peoples lives in your hands. No one knows what will happen. It's evident that just locking things down could cause a dip in cases but what do you do when the riots start and people get fed up of being under curfew.
> 
> I know call in the Army and start shooting.


Follow the examples of the successful countries....too late now.....keep people really well informed. I really believe that with the right info the fast majority of people would comply.
There can't be many folk who don't have a friend with asthma or a heart problem or know someone with a child who has health problems.
They might not care about the elderly but we all have someone....


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## mariesnowgoose (Mar 14, 2020)

jagmanx said:


> And some say Donald T was over-reacting.
> I do not like the man but he was doing his job in protecting USA..discuss ?



Tbh, it's a really hard call on what to do for the best.

With a major global emergency like this they have to tread a very dangerous line in the balancing act of how to react and when to be pro-active.
Since this pandemic is like none we've ever had before it will test most governments to the limit.

And before anyone tries to say it shouldn't be difficult and they should 'get their act together', it is NOT the same as the flu pandemics of the past.

"*World War I claimed an estimated 16 million lives*. *The influenza epidemic that swept the world in 1918 killed an estimated 50 million people*. *One fifth* of the world's population was attacked by this deadly virus. Within months, it had killed more people than any other illness in recorded history. *It lasted 15 months*".

In 1917 the global population was *1.9 billion*. In 2020 the global population is *7.8 billion*.
There were no international air flights or mass private vehicle usage in 2017, and any international travel was generally restricted to the wealthy.

I'm useless with maths, but a crude calculation based on the above suggests that possibly 200 million people could die? 
I know there are a lot of "modern day" factors to throw in the mix which might alter this, but it's as good a guesstimate as any.

However, it could well be that it is under control in a lot less time than in previous pandemics, probably because the speed at which it can travel across the globe nowadays is a helluva lot quicker than in 2018.  The final death toll is anyone's guess. Just have to wait and see.

Unfortunately for us Brits, we've had a fair amount of neglect/underfunding/mismanagement/profiteering going on over several years with our Health Service in particular, but also with all the other supporting services - social, police, fire, emergency etc.

When we get side blinded by a pandemic like this current one it's no wonder we're going to be caught with our pants well down.

The government are desperately trying to 'flatten the spike' to try and prevent health services being completely overwhelmed, so don't expect any Trump-like reactions from BoJo & co any time soon. As for getting enough medics in place to care for those who become seriously ill in the next few months, just have to cross your fingers and shut your eyes! 

Of course it's scary for a lot of folk, me included, but I also see the very dark humorous side too.
I'm fascinated to see how it all develops as we go along - if I live long enough to see it and come out the other end, that is!


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## mariesnowgoose (Mar 14, 2020)

Oh, and we were nowhere near as 'globalised' commercially in 1918 as we are now!

Chuck that into the mix for a really, *really* big rollercoaster of a ride!!


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## QFour (Mar 14, 2020)

An article in the Telegraph sums it up saying that the people in Asia have been doing what they have been told to do. When the Government says stay at home that is what they do. They don't start belly aching about not being able to go to the football or down the pub or taking the MH out. They just get on with life the best they can observing the rules that have been laid down. They certainly don't criticise the leaders and start asking for reports to be written so they can be scrutinised. We need to batten down the hatches, keep away from others and wait it out. It's going to be a long summer. After the buying frenzies of the last few days I wonder how much will go in the bin.


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## Lyonnesse (Mar 15, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> No. Nobody knows exactly how it will pan out regardless of where you are.
> (pan out - you see what did there?!    )
> 
> Advice just now on radio 4, "Make choices based on your own sense of risk".
> ...



Herd immunity is a dangerous assumption.  The common cold is a coronavirus.  How many have you had in your lifetime?


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## redhand (Mar 15, 2020)

I started this thread as a means of communicating with fellow travellers issues with borders road closures.
things that may help people make a decision on whether or go or stay.
it seems to have become anything but that 
any one have ideas of how to get back on track with first hand info of people who are here


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## redhand (Mar 15, 2020)

as an example has anyone been on going on the seville santander road today
are there checks on borders between portugal/spain/France today
can you travel through the hotspots Madrid / basque region


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## John H (Mar 15, 2020)

redhand said:


> as an example has anyone been on going on the seville santander road today
> are there checks on borders between portugal/spain/France today
> can you travel through the hotspots Madrid / basque region



Things are changing rapidly but the current situation is that you can travel if you are on your way to your normal place of abode, so it is possible to get to the ferry ports and all ferries are running normally except the Pont Aven, although I suspect that is because of mechanical problems rather than the virus. 

We are currently in a campsite in Almeria Province and should have started to head home yesterday. However, we have decided to stay put. We were planning to catch the ferry at Dieppe and take two or three weeks getting there but it seems most campsites and aires are closed to new visitors and our loo needs emptying every three days or so! Besides, it is sunny and we have plenty of wine (and loo rolls )


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