# overweight? axle confusion



## Steve and Thea (Mar 17, 2012)

Hi all
would like to pick some brains on a saturday evening before the alcohol kicks in.

we carry a moped on the back of our bessacarr E530, i have always suspected that we are overweight as the steering is a little lighter than before the moped days.
i loaded up fully and visited the weighbridge (in disguise) we came in at 3400kg which is good but the rear axle was overloaded (front was 1240kg, plate says it can be 1850kg - the rear was 2160kg, plate says it should be no more than 2000kg)

question is, if we get pulled do the 'feds' weigh both axles or just combined? 
my main concern is that we are going over to france in june (first time abroad in motorhome, yikes!) ive heard the pesky french imprison you and pull out all your teeth and toe nails for such horrific crimes like travelling overloaded

would appreciate any advice or experiences 



steve


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## vwalan (Mar 17, 2012)

hi, find away of moving some heavy things forward . i doubt the moped weighs enough to be the total cause. load planning is required.certainly  here they weight both axles individually at the road side.


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## Canalsman (Mar 17, 2012)

I would be concerned for other reasons.

If you are exceeding the designed axle weight of the vehicle, you may be exceeding the load rating of the tyres as well. Even if you are not, your insurers may deem your cover to have lapsed on the first count alone.


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## Deleted member 3802 (Mar 17, 2012)

as alan says each axle individual,it's not just the weight of the moped but the overhang from the rear axle to where it's mounted, leverage, taking moments about a point ect (remember that lamegate)


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## maingate (Mar 17, 2012)

Buy some strong Bungees and fix the wife to the front bumper ..........

......... it works for me. :dance:

Moments about a point Arthur ?

I remember the sad moment at the point I met you.


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## Steve and Thea (Mar 17, 2012)

thanks for replying

i can shift around 50kg easily to the front, a couple of full water containers which we would normally carry. (i weighed them in the normal transit position, over the rear axle)
might be struggling to move anything else, the only criticism of our E530 is that we have very limited storage space 

it has been an eye opener, last thing we need is a nasty accident. we will revise how we travel. Really dont want to give up the moped tho. 

anyone know if the uk or french feds allow any tolerances or % leeway


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## Canalsman (Mar 17, 2012)

Sorry to reiterate, but it's your insurance that's of concern. They won't allow leeway ...


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## Steve and Thea (Mar 17, 2012)

hi maingate

interesting solution, suppose that would also give me some front bumper protection too.

thea has just read the thread, she says hi (apparently i need to make sure the spare room has bedding)


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## lebesset (Mar 17, 2012)

vwalan said:


> hi, find away of moving some heavy things forward . i doubt the moped weighs enough to be the total cause. load planning is required.certainly  here they weight both axles individually at the road side.




like VOSA do in the UK ?...very expensive if they catch you !

in france they are generally a little lenient , but 160Kg ? [ makes sign of knife across throat ]


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## Steve and Thea (Mar 17, 2012)

hi canalsman

i hear you loud and clear. 

i am just trying to gather any practical advice or tips to get within the limits if at all possible


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## Tony Lee (Mar 17, 2012)

Shifting a few kg forward, especially if that weight is now between the axles, isn't going to make a lot of difference. 
Assuming 50% rear overhang - and many are a lot more than that - loading a 100kg moped right on the back is going to add 150kg to the rear axle load (and reduce the front axle load by 50kg). Moving other weights will not have the same effect because the multiplier effect due to leverage will not be as great.

One option - if the running gear can handle it - is to get the vehicle re-certified for a higher axle load and this will also likely need higher capacity tyres as well.

BTW - have you checked the tyre ratings and manufacturers inflation tables and adjusted the pressure upwards to allow for the higher loading on the back - and of course, downwards on the front.


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## BrianG (Mar 17, 2012)

I wish i hadn't read this thread|||||||


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## Hawkmoon (Mar 18, 2012)

Considered using a trailer?

You can get then that allow your moped to be mounted tranversely.


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## veedubmatt (Mar 18, 2012)

would like to ask is this with your water tanks/fuel tanks full ???


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## Ste (Mar 18, 2012)

Its not just the weight of the moped, but the rack to carry it'll be another 50kg or so. Personally I'd get rid of the lot and invest in a folding motorcycle. Or even a bicycle/tandem.


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## Steve and Thea (Mar 18, 2012)

hi

thanks for the feedback everyone.


yes. it was weighed with full fresh water (90ltr) plus another 50ltr (2x25) directly over the rear axle.
2 full gas cylinders which sit directly over the rear axle

the moped is the new honda vision 110 which i waited for because it is just about the lightest thing you can buy above 50cc and it is also the narrowest

i can get the moped a little closer to the rear of motorhome but only about 6 inches, i doubt that will make much difference but i suppose i need to tweak everything.

the motorhome does have a spare tyre slung under neath (rear axle) was wondering whether to remove this but most of the feedback on this site is saying that the emergency foam stuff is rubbish?

i could run with empty or low tanks but i would prefer not to. in future if i do run with the spare water this will be up front

i will be looking at tyre pressure in more detail whatever happens, i have to admit i would normally run all four tyres the same but will max the rear and experiment with the front 

i am a bit of a thicko at times so if you have any suggestion even the obvious please submit


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## Techno100 (Mar 18, 2012)

The advice from Michelin these days is to run the rears at max 80 psi and adjust the fronts for comfort (mine at 55)
This is due to the belief now that almost all motorhomes are without doubt up to the hilt at the back


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## Steve and Thea (Mar 18, 2012)

thanks techno- i'll start with those settings and see how i go


the fuel tank was half full by the way. 
it is a low profile van also so i cant even load stuff over the cab, there is a limit as to what you can get in the cab with you!


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## mitzimad (Mar 18, 2012)

whats the gross vehicle weight ?can it not be increased?


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## Techno100 (Mar 18, 2012)

Check what the max pressure of your own tyres is tho!
I have Agillis camping


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## vwalan (Mar 18, 2012)

in the begining you said it was a moped .now it seems its a scooter with a 110cc motor . no wonder its heavy . 
off topic but have you got the required licence to drive a m,cycle. ?
you may find a trailer is your best bet. 
at first i assumed it was a light weight moped.


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## Steve and Thea (Mar 18, 2012)

ok technically its a scooter not a moped

but this new honda scooter is only 10kg heavier than a traditional 49cc moped. 

i have a full bike license (last bike was a CBR1100 blackbird)


like a few of you have suggested i will have to look into uprating the motorhome, it looks like i could jump to 3800kg. i have emailed svTech for advice (i have held a license long enough to be able to drive it)

got a feeling tho that uprating will open a can of worms-

insurance?
breakdown cover?
speed limits?

techno- i am rolling on continentals, looks like i am already on max pressure (69) but have just dropped the front down to 59, i'll see how she goes


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## TerryL (Mar 18, 2012)

Discovered I was overweight when visiting a weighbridge for a check in "full holiday" trim. There was little I could do to get below the MAUW of 3500kg (even by leaving Mrs L at home!) so I opted to upgrade. Give SvTech (SvTech - Special Vehicle Technology) 01772 621800 a call and they will be able to tell you exactly what you need - very helpful and friendly.

I needed to upgrade the tyres and fit air-assist suspension but it meant that I need no longer worry about being overweight (I went to 3850kg which is the maximum the manufacturer allowed on my chassis).

Just need to watch your driving licence covers you for vehicles over 3500kg though.

Terry


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## Steve and Thea (Mar 18, 2012)

thanks terry

do you mind telling me what the air assisted suspension cost you?

my license is ok for the uprate


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## Techno100 (Mar 18, 2012)

My air suspension cost me £411 plus some waxoyl
http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums...p-air-suspension-fitting-made-easy-guide.html


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## AndyC (Mar 18, 2012)

Steve and Thea said:


> got a feeling tho that uprating will open a can of worms-
> 
> insurance?
> breakdown cover?
> speed limits?



*Insurance*: You must tell your insurers, a weight upgrade is a modification.

*Breakdown cover:* Depends on who your current cover is with, most motorhome specific breakdown policies should be ok.

*Speed limits:* The speed limits depend on the unladen weight, so a chassis weight upgrade might make no difference. You are subject to lower speed limits if the unladen weight is over 3050kg, so if you are pretty close to this now the addition of air assistance, if needed, might just push you over.

AndyC


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## Byronic (Mar 18, 2012)

I think in some circumstances airide suspension assistance can allow a payload increase of 200kg. 
Rather than increase the overall allowable MAM to over 3500kg into HGV territory could it be a possibility to downrate the front axle by 200kg (where you have the payload margin) and uprate the rear either by the addition of airide assistors and possibly a tyre upgrade, or a manufacturers rear axle upgrade(expensive?), and keeping to the 3400kg MAM


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## lebesset (Mar 18, 2012)

at a guess your vehicle is fitted with 215/70R15 LI 109/107 tyres which will carry 2060Kg in single formation [ of course there is a margin of error above that ]

if you could get your load down to that it might be worth checking with the vehicle manufacturer if the actual axle is capable of that  ..it will be in reality .. [ try the importer ] , and get it replated to that ; there will probably be a part number on it from the axle manufacturer ; maybe the airride option mentioned will work or an extra spring 

tyres are normally fitted to give a margin for error , but as you are doing the right thing and keeping a check on it you don't need it

once you get into changing tyres for something bigger there are all  sorts of problems , wrong gearing , new speedo's etc


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## Byronic (Mar 18, 2012)

Higher load rated tyres aren't necessarily bigger, they may just have a higher ply rating ie stronger side walls.


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## lebesset (Mar 18, 2012)

Byronic said:


> Higher load rated tyres aren't necessarily bigger, they may just have a higher ply rating ie stronger side walls.



so what tyre with the same RC has a higher load index than the tyre mentioned ?


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## Steve and Thea (Mar 18, 2012)

thanks again for the feedback

feel a little more informed. 
i will look into uprating and then weigh up all the pro's and cons

dont really want to lose the 'car' status regarding speed limits but again i will weigh up all the options once i have all the detail


over and out


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## Byronic (Mar 18, 2012)

lebesset said:


> so what tyre with the same RC has a higher load index than the tyre mentioned ?



Without searching I don't know, possibly none.
However my own tyres are Bridgestone R 294s spec. 225/75N 120/121. 
Fulda make 225/75N 118 ie same size but being 118 are less load rated, which confirms the point I was making.


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## Beemer (Mar 18, 2012)

This is an interesting thread... I have not been on a weigh bridge but that is because our van is a six berth with six belts, but only carries the three of us (we like the space) so I would imagine we would be well under our 4.5 tonne limit.  Our van had the air suspension upgrade before we bought it, so I dont know what it cost, and I know we need 79psi in the front and back tyres.


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## Tony Lee (Mar 18, 2012)

> downrate the front axle by 200kg (where you have the payload margin)



Depends on whether he and the passenger were in their seats when weighed.

Don't forget - all the 'legal' weight definitions don't mean a thing when you are stopped on the side of the road. Your weight is what it is at that moment, complete with all the extra stuff you ust bought at the market - or the three hitchhikers you have in the back


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## Byronic (Mar 26, 2012)

Tony Lee said:


> Depends on whether he and the passenger were in their seats when weighed.
> 
> Don't forget - all the 'legal' weight definitions don't mean a thing when you are stopped on the side of the road. Your weight is what it is at that moment, complete with all the extra stuff you ust bought at the market - or the three hitchhikers you have in the back
> 
> View attachment 4787



"Fully loaded" states the OP.... can't get more loaded than that. 
So if he downrates the front axle to 1650Kg and he loads as usual to his 1240Kg and upgrades the rear to 2200Kg and loads the rear axle to the 2160Kg, he shouldn't have any problems when being stopped by the side of the road, or anywhere else come to that. 
He will still be at 3400Kg MAM and will have 40Kg spare on the rear axle for the modification addition eg Airide spheres. 
How much margin you allow for extra stuff is a personal thing, if you are on the margin you just have to be disciplined. 
I'm driving thru western France at the present time, and this year I note many N roads now have an 80kph speed limit for anything more 3500Kg, yet another reason for staying under that limit.


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## jackslad (Mar 26, 2012)

How many drivers have ever been pulled on to a weighbridge , Is it common in europe?


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## Byronic (Mar 26, 2012)

jackslad said:


> How many drivers have ever been pulled on to a weighbridge , Is it common in europe?



Over many years driving in many European countries I can't recall ever seeing a motorhome on a roadside weighbridge. Seen trucks hauled in from time to time
The real problem arises when, if you were to have an accident and the Police decide to do a few checks; and then inform your insurance co.


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## vwalan (Mar 26, 2012)

all i can say is dont come to cornwall in the summer overloaded . vosa very often pull m,homes in just down the road from me at indian queens . they tell me about 85%of 3,500kg gvw m,homes are easy to pull. they laugh about it the next week . some days they get over a hundred tickets out. i speak to them quite often . wouldnt want a 3.5 ton camper . with todays weigh mats they can be anywhere.


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## Duckrow (Mar 26, 2012)

Is there a charge for taking your motorhome to a weigh-bridge?
If you do go and are overweight what happens? Do you get a ticket or told to unload your stuff?


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## maingate (Mar 26, 2012)

Good advice from ***** but if you have a tag axle on an AlKo chassis, the opposite applies. They run at very near their maximum on the front axle (and that is with uprated springs fitted as standard).

If you have a tag, get it on a weighbridge.


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## vwalan (Mar 26, 2012)

currently if stopped by vosa and find to be up to 5%over the vehicle will be prohibited to carry on its journey till the weights are reduced .if over 5%you will have to remove the weight and will be fined .its a maximum fine of 5,000quid . but hardly anyone gets that much. 
you could be asked to go to a fixed weigh bridge up to 5 miles from your route.if found then not to be over weight you can claim expenses . 
is it worth the risk. years ago i used to overload a vw camper . but these days its easy picking for vosa . or the authority in other countries. commercial transport is always being warned about it . they do come down hard on them.


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## loftypeak (Mar 27, 2012)

Steve and Thea said:


> Hi all
> would like to pick some brains on a saturday evening before the alcohol kicks in.
> 
> we carry a moped on the back of our bessacarr E530, i have always suspected that we are overweight as the steering is a little lighter than before the moped days.
> ...



Hi Steve, the usual method of the VOSA and Police is to ask you to drive slowly onto the weighbridge; they will check the front axle weight, then the Gross Vehicle weight, then the rear axle weight as you drive slowly off the weighbridge. In your case as outlined above there would be only the rear axle overweight offence. There are separate offences for each axle weight and the gross weight.  In most cases, if your 'van looks "wrong" to be down at the front or at the rear you will stand more chance of attracting their attention.

Iain


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## gerryr (Apr 1, 2012)

*French Police*

Hi

We have been victims of these fine chaps on a rear axle weight issue, albeit a light commercial and not a camper.  We were stopped on a french motorway on a Saturday lunchtime.  They took our passports from us and made us follow them to a weighbridge at a nearby scrapyard.  The yard was closed so they then took us to a local police station yard where they impounded our vehicle whilst they messed around with portable weighpads which they clearly did not know how to use.  They wanted us to remove items from our vehicle and arrange an alternate vehicle to remove the excess.  There was no sense of humour on their part and lots of agression.  Fortunately When I told them that our load, comprising a single item was worth a lot of money and we could not arrange alternate transport for about a week they bottled it and let us go, after driving us to a cash point so that we could pay a substantial fine!

Don't risk it, get it sorted before you go.

Gerry


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## Neckender (Apr 1, 2012)

***** said:


> Nothing is for free, you pay your money and private weigh bridge companies have no jurisdiction to stop you driving away and to be honest couldn't care less.
> Now if you went to a VOSA weighbridge, that would be a different matter.
> I paid £5 last week for two weighs (not £5 each)
> The bloke did me a deal and only charged for one as he printed the weight on the opposite side of the ticket.
> ...



Where did you take your motorhome to be weighed Graham.

John.


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## Neckender (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks for that Graham.

John.


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