# white diesel smoke\fumes on cold start up?



## rubi1 (Feb 26, 2015)

Hi,I hope someone can help with a problem I have with my 1990 2.5 TURBO DIESEL FIAT DUCATO SWIFT KONTIKI please.

Starting from cold it is very difficult to start,I have to go through 3/4 glow plug sequences before it starts,but when it does it throws out clouds of unburnt atomized diesel fumes, and will not tick over without partial pedal pressure. It isn't steam/moisture as I,ve checked water level and inside the rocker oil filler cap for mayonnaise.

Once it has started and warmed up for a minute or there abouts, she's fine,no further problems, doesn't ever stall,no loss of power,temps OK, fuel consumption is good.

Recently had it to a mechanic because it lacked power on the top end of acceleration,he reset the pump timing and that has made an enormous difference to this,but he said that he had difficulty setting its " cold start" I think he said.

It was quite good at starting before this,but as I,ve said it was lacking power on the top end of the throttle. Once warm it goes like a train.

Items I have checked and or replaced are "Glow plugs" ( beru) and the glow plug relay. It seems to me to be almost like the glow plugs arnt working because its fine after warm up? 

I hope all that's not garbled,and that someone may be able to give me some help on it please.

Thanks in advance.


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## drewdt3 (Feb 27, 2015)

It sounds exactly like glow plugs. Have you checked the feed to the plugs, all joints in the wiring for poor connections etc.


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## rubi1 (Feb 27, 2015)

drewdt3 said:


> It sounds exactly like glow plugs. Have you checked the feed to the plugs, all joints in the wiring for poor connections etc.



Hi drewdt3, thanks for your reply.

What would be the best way to go about this,am OK with an avo and basic mechanics. 
Also how does the cold start mechanism work on the pump,there are no other cables,only the throttle cable mechanism? 

Cheers.


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## n brown (Feb 27, 2015)

find the glow plugs,set the meter to dc volts, put one probe on a good earth,can't beat negative on the battery,get the ignition turned on put the other on the top nut of a glowplug. if you have power then the relay is ok,next test the continuity of each plug. if only one plug is down you can have trouble starting and smoke


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## walpeter (Feb 27, 2015)

I have a Hymer 544 1991 straight diesel. I have a similar problem starting (although I use 70% biodiesel). I usually have to let the glowplugs run twice but I get the cloud of white smoke which is basically unburnt fuel. I changed all my glowplugs, and the glowplug relay but didn't make much difference. As long as I have a well charged battery, it always goes in the end. I did discover recently that when starting these old Ducato beasts, you have to depress the accelerator pedal fully - this does help, despite the clouds of smoke!


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## K9d (Feb 27, 2015)

walpeter said:


> I have a Hymer 544 1991 straight diesel. I have a similar problem starting (although I use 70% biodiesel). I usually have to let the glowplugs run twice but I get the cloud of white smoke which is basically unburnt fuel. I changed all my glowplugs, and the glowplug relay but didn't make much difference. As long as I have a well charged battery, it always goes in the end. I did discover recently that when starting these old Ducato beasts, you have to depress the accelerator pedal fully - this does help, despite the clouds of smoke!



Mine's the same, a 1988 2.5 diesel needs full throttle to start, but the owners handbook states that Turbo diesels don't need the throttle to be touched to start.


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## drewdt3 (Feb 27, 2015)

rubi1 said:


> Hi drewdt3, thanks for your reply.
> 
> What would be the best way to go about this,am OK with an avo and basic mechanics.
> Also how does the cold start mechanism work on the pump,there are no other cables,only the throttle cable mechanism?
> ...



Not sure there is any cold start device on your pump however I am not au fait with that particular engine. Is your heater light staying on for a few seconds then going out or flashing on then straight off? I would start with the avo first checking that they are actually getting a feed and for how long, obviously best after being left overnight, then take it from there.


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## rubi1 (Feb 27, 2015)

n brown said:


> find the glow plugs,set the meter to dc volts, put one probe on a good earth,can't beat negative on the battery,get the ignition turned on put the other on the top nut of a glowplug. if you have power then the relay is ok,next test the continuity of each plug. if only one plug is down you can have trouble starting and smoke



Hi nbrown,and thanks for your reply. I will do this over the w,end weather permitting, really pleased with the response on this site from you all,what a great find.....can the continuity be checked while plugs are in situ? will post results when I have them.


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## Shockingdog (Feb 27, 2015)

drewdt3 said:


> Not sure there is any cold start device on your pump however I am not au fait with that particular engine. Is your heater light staying on for a few seconds then going out or flashing on then straight off? I would start with the avo first checking that they are actually getting a feed and for how long, obviously best after being left overnight, then take it from there.



Had similar problems with my 2008 Ducato.Clouds of white smoke and very slow lumpy tick over. Lack of revs etc. Problem was diagnosed as faulty AGR valve.(Air,Gas,Recirculation valve)  Quite a common problem apparantly.I have since been told that the valve can be blanked off and this will also overcome the fault. How this fix affects the MOT omissions I do not know? The AGR valve was changed and the problem has stopped.


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## K9d (Feb 27, 2015)

Shockingdog said:


> Had similar problems with my 2008 Ducato.Clouds of white smoke and very slow lumpy tick over. Lack of revs etc. Problem was diagnosed as faulty AGR valve.(Air,Gas,Recirculation valve)  Quite a common problem apparantly.I have since been told that the valve can be blanked off and this will also overcome the fault. How this fix affects the MOT omissions I do not know? The AGR valve was changed and the problem has stopped.



Are you sure its AGR and not EGR (Exhaust gas recirculation valve), the OP's van won't have an EGR.


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## K9d (Feb 27, 2015)

Same as mine, old but simple


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## drewdt3 (Feb 27, 2015)

The good old days of spannering without silicon chips.


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## mikejay (Feb 27, 2015)

Sound like the cold start advance my old vw lt35 had one it went to a lever on the injector pump when pulled out it advances the injector pump timing for cold starts without pulling it out on my old van it would smoke like hell and was very lumpy.

Mike


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## n brown (Feb 27, 2015)

could it be a cold start ? i had a lorry that squirted a bit of diesel onto a glowplug in the air intake so the engine would suck flame. another had a screwtop jar of ether that could be fed to the air intake . there's been many funny attempts at cold starts


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## K9d (Feb 27, 2015)

Nothing like that on mine and I can't find any reference to it in the owners handbook.


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## mikejay (Feb 27, 2015)

Some have water controlled advance i know my old Peugeot car did it was a metal thing attached to the head think it has wax in it similar to a thermostat and a cable runs out the end to the injector pump. When cold it pulls on the cable think it was adjustable.

Mike


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## Shockingdog (Feb 27, 2015)

K9d said:


> Are you sure its AGR and not EGR (Exhaust gas recirculation valve), the OP's van won't have an EGR.



Correct EGR valve.Replacing it did the trick for me......


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## ricc (Feb 27, 2015)

ive had new glow plugs that were faulty so dont rule out a glow plug problem because theyve been changed .

you can check their resistance in situe,   dissconect the wire(or metal strap) from the top of all the plugs and use the multimeter to measure the resistance between the terminal on the top of the plug and the metal plug body where it screws into the block,   summit like 5 ohms  but each plug  should be the same.


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## 1807truckman (Feb 28, 2015)

Sounds like the mechanic has retarded the timing, this will improve the power at top end but will make it harder to start and cause the white smoke and rough running you describe.


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## jake (Feb 28, 2015)

Turbo ?


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## Mr B (Feb 28, 2015)

Quite correct the 8140.x Fiat / Iveco diesel does not have glow plugs merely a fuel fed preheater coil that only works when engine starts to run.

First I assume you gave replaced the fuel filter element before going any further and everything else is in order, good compressions etc.

The engine is direct injection and does not need preheaters (glow-plugs) for starting. These engines will normally start on the button every time with a little wisp of white smoke which clears quickly.

I have seen this problem numerous times before and suggest you check the filter for air leaks, normally where the rubber fuel pipes harden but the jubilee clips don't fully seal. Critically there is not normally fuel leak though. Hard pipes don't seal against vacuum and allow fuel to drain back to tank when engine is stopped, the resultant poor starting is because pump gas to reprint itself.

It would be very unusual for your pump to have failed to cause this issue as it does start


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## eddyt (Feb 28, 2015)

n brown said:


> could it be a cold start ? i had a lorry that squirted a bit of diesel onto a glowplug in the air intake so the engine would suck flame. another had a screwtop jar of ether that could be fed to the air intake . there's been many funny attempts at cold starts


i have a hymer 1994 model fiat ducato it has no glow plugs but has the diesel glow plug in the inlet manifold like you mention that sucks flame in.
i have recently had cold start problems but only when it drops to -4 c the cold start device in the inlet manifold does not seem to
work. but it starts ok with a really good powerful battery.


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## Ivory55 (Mar 1, 2015)

I remember many years ago when we started the diesel cement mixers on site in the winter we would set light to to a dry old cement bag by the air in take. Plenty of smoke when that started, haha. I bet they are illegal now, health and safety etc.


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## chubadub (Mar 1, 2015)

I to have a ducato 2.5 TD 1991, when I first purchased it, it would smoke allot at start up. I changed the glow plugs, that did'nt do it. After some reading up on the T.O.C. forum I tryed one feasible cause that was the valve seals leaking engine oil into the cylinders when stood . I used some *Lucas engine oil stop leak* and after a good run out the smoke had reduce  significantly and has done so since, Hope this helps. Mick.


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## chubadub (Mar 1, 2015)

I would say neither black nor white, that in it self threw me, black smoke engine oil or fuel, white smoke water. Anyway I can start her up now when on ferries without filling the lungs of my fellow bikers with smoke. Dont get me wrong there is still smoke but no were near the amount as before.
Forgot to say she runs on 90% SVO


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## Burtie (Mar 1, 2015)

My old s750 starts up on the button just wait for the glowplug light to go out 
Turn the key even after leaving it for months 
But I'd take the ducato back to the garage


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## rubi1 (Mar 1, 2015)

ricc said:


> ive had new glow plugs that were faulty so dont rule out a glow plug problem because theyve been changed .
> 
> you can check their resistance in situe,   dissconect the wire(or metal strap) from the top of all the plugs and use the multimeter to measure the resistance between the terminal on the top of the plug and the metal plug body where it screws into the block,   summit like 5 ohms  but each plug  should be the same.


Thanks ricc,will do that. And yes it did occur to me that the new glows could be faulty. Thanks for the reply,will post results,but didn't get to it at w,end,weather c..p!


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## rubi1 (Mar 1, 2015)

[No message]


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## whitevanwoman (Mar 1, 2015)

Thanks for this, nice and succinct, so much so that I have copied it into my van info notebook kept in the cab. 

I've been noticing considerable (much more than normal) white smoke on starting until I get into about 3rd gear, over this winter (2002 Transit, 2.4, turbo). My glow plugs are almost exactly 2 years old. There has been the odd time when the van has been sluggish to start when turning over but no real problems starting. Hopefully with the end of winter in sight, I might get to next autumn before having to change them.


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## Polar Bear (Mar 2, 2015)

Hi. 
Sorry to hear about your problems.

If you test heater plugs by using a multi-meter without removing them you will only discover that your plugs are getting power to all of them. I always remove heater plugs and test by dropping a voltage across them and watching as they 'GLOW'.
One of the differences between a good mechanic and gifted amateur is that the mechanic can get heater plugs out. [Tip] take heater plugs out when engine is HOT.
I would advise that you take your van to a 'diesel engineer' for tests as an ordinary mechanic will probably not have the very expensive equipment to fully test your pump.
Some older diesel pumps have a lever that is operated to increase fueling to help starting when cold. Some are operated by cable and others like the LDV have a spring loaded cold start assist that works automatically on turning key.
If the timing has been altered *'by ear'* by an untrained fitter you will not be getting the best from your engine! Diesel engineers will seal their work on any adjusters they alter with paint to prevent it from being tinkered with.

Fiat Ducato van spares, parts adverts for all commercial Fiats, Ducatos etc


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## K9d (Mar 2, 2015)

I have the same issue with mine, it too stayed put when I changed the others


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## eddyt (Mar 2, 2015)

you could get whitish grey smoke due to faulty turbo oil seals. It lets oil leak 
into  exhaust manifold when it heats up the smoke is white. When the seals warm up it leaks less


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