# flier for country pubs



## sundown (Jan 13, 2008)

hi,
ive just been thinking that we all travel the country 
looking for some-where to park up, but maybe the answer is 
staring us in the face.
all these country pubs, inns, etc with large carparks.
the question is "how do we make them want us to stop there ?"
and I think this might be the answer 
a palmflet which we could print out and carry with us
to hand out to landlords etc.​






as i said this is just an idea in its infancy which needs to be refined and fine-tuned to get the final result 
I know that there are a lot more brighter people than me on the site who may like to take up the challange
and  admin would have to be consulted on this 
but c'mon with the input what do you think?

sundown


----------



## Deleted member 775 (Jan 14, 2008)

great idea ,will admin agree to the proposal after all he is the one who owns and runs this site


----------



## snowgoose (Jan 14, 2008)

*pub flyer*

_What a brilliant idea, my only objection to it is I NEVER THOUGHT OF IT,but as soon as somebody sorts it out & Admin are happy I am willing to print a fair few out, but be quick I'm away around Easter MOT permitting.
snowgoose_


----------



## lenny (Jan 14, 2008)

Yes, I like it Nick,lets see how it goes,,Good luck.

Regards..Lenny


----------



## Julie798 (Jan 14, 2008)

*pubs*

I think its a excellent idea


----------



## Graham Hadfield (Jan 14, 2008)

Very good idea.

Graham


----------



## ladytramp (Jan 14, 2008)

*wonderful idea*

:





sundown said:


> hi,
> ive just been thinking that we all travel the country
> looking for some-where to park up, but maybe the answer is
> staring us in the face.
> ...



I think it's a great idea and would be benificial to all.


----------



## pilote (Jan 14, 2008)

A great idea.let,s hope Admin O-K,s it


----------



## artc (Jan 14, 2008)

*pub scheme*

This has been mentioned on other sites and is also run in the Practical Motorhome Mag, the sites don't seem to want to get involved. Those that do use pubs don't want anyone to know, it can be good thing, but their is a down side, what happens if it starts to get abused? we are not all angels, but in theory it's a good idea and if this site wants to do it then I would be for it.


----------



## avandriver (Jan 14, 2008)

Its a great idea Nick 

I can see the benefits from both sides having been a landlord in the past 

But I can see lots of landlords dismissing the idea for fear of seeing their car parks looking like a camp site 



Steve


----------



## tresrikay (Jan 14, 2008)

Excellent Idea, behind you 100% Nick. In the mean time maybe a section in the threads could be opened listing those Pubs that already welcome Motorhomers. I know one van at the meet last weekend moved on to The Duke of William in Matlock and stayed there 2 nights. The landlord was happy to accomodate us all. However we stayed put at Cromford and a good time was had by all.      Rick.


----------



## Don (Jan 14, 2008)

Superb Idea, but, Dont want to be a damp squid but read this. Extract taken from the campaign for UK AIRES.

There is very little point chasing owners of privately occupied land such as truck stops, cafes, pubs, shops and so on. Unless they wish to obtain planning permission as a fully fledged camp site (including health and safety regulations etc.) it is illegal for them to have motor caravanners staying on their land regularly.
If the owner of private land wishes to establish a stopover, it may be possible for The Motor Caravanners’ Club to certify the site as a CL, which would be open to all motor caravanners, regardless of whether they are members of the MCC. We are currently in discussion with the MCC on this subject, so please send the details of the potential stopover site to us at Motor Caravan Magazine and we will pass these on to the MCC.
The fact that local authorities are exempt from the relevant legislation means that French style ‘aires’, run by the council for the use of tourists in the area – possibly but not necessarily including such facilities as waste disposal or even hook-up – are very possible.

Thats why we "wild camp". Please dont shoot me Im only thinking out loud.

Don


----------



## sundown (Jan 14, 2008)

thanks for your input don,

there's always some government official sitting behind a desk thinking,
what new legislation can we bring in to spoil things for the population?
and we pay their wages.

but do these restrictions apply to a club member inviting other club members to park in his car park? 

does a farmer have to register as a camp site when he allows a scout camp in his field?

what would happen to a landlord for allowing campervans to park overnight
in his carpark?

who exactly would enforce these regulations

would a carpark offering no facilities be regarded as a stop-over

the questions are endless

any wildcamping solicitors out there

sundown


----------



## Belgian (Jan 14, 2008)

*splendid  !!!*

If fact this is the method that made things move in France.
ACCL did and does it with flyers to make local bussines aware of the profits
MH-ers are contributing to the local economy and in this way awakening local adminstrations to do something for MH-ers. 
France Passion works on private basis to welcome MH'ers by vintagers, farmers... This is on private base: you're invited as a *friend*. Everybody can  privately invite friends on his own property. This is also why they will not charge you for your stay. You even not obliged to buy their products. (however, it's difficult to resist the temptation )
Otherwise it is a camping and the have to respond to a battery of permits, legislation and have to pay busines-taxes on that.
But whatever: Sundown's idea  is great . Let's give him all support he can get.


----------



## Don (Jan 14, 2008)

Again according to the Campaign for UK AIRES. The only people that exempt from the rule - wait for it - have you guessed? The local Authorities.
Scouts and Guides as an organisation would be able to certify just as the CC, C&CC & Motorhomes club do, and are to my understanding, the only people who can under certain restrictions.

And the reason that the authorities are reluctant to open the local car-parks up as AIRES is the fear of Gypsy Encampment.

Yes, if thier is a legal eagle on here, please step forward and help.

Again I ask, Please dont shoot.


----------



## Don (Jan 14, 2008)

Belgian said:


> If fact this is the method that made things move in France.
> ACCL did and does it with flyers to make local bussines aware of the profits
> MH-ers are contributing to the local economy and in this way awakening local adminstrations to do something for MH-ers.
> France Passion works on private basis to welcome MH'ers by vintagers, farmers... This is on private base: you're invited as a *friend*. Everybody can  privately invite friends on his own property. This is also why they will not charge you for your stay. You even not obliged to buy their products. (however, it's difficult to resist the temptation )
> ...



I have to say that France is France, and unfortunately our laws are different.
Local bylaw Says, you can invite a Friend to park his caravan or motor home on your drive as additional accomodation for not more than 28 days.

We are canvasing the local authorities into the idea of opening local car parks as overnight parking, but as I have said, the past problems with gypsies makes it an upward struggle.

Why not join the campaign for UK Aires.


----------



## Trevor (Jan 14, 2008)

It's a good idea Sundown.


----------



## Yogihughes (Jan 14, 2008)

I think it is a great idea.
Also if a 48hour limit to parking was enforced then surely planning permissions would be overcome. I'm really new to all this so tell me if I am incorrect.


----------



## Belgian (Jan 14, 2008)

Don,
You're right. We have different laws. Most of the laws in continental countries are based on the French 'Code Napoléon'. Since UK has never been overruled by 'Nappie' you still have a treasure of laws, you mentioned:' _Local bylaw Says, you can invite a Friend to park his caravan or motor home on your drive as additional accomodation for not more than 28 days.' _ Your protection of privacy is better than ours ! There is also the answer !
So a publican can invite privately a 'friend' MH-er to stay on his property. Nobody  can interfere in his privacy. But: he may not go commercial (ask a fee). The 'friend' has the right to pay for his consumption (drink or meal)
That is exactly what 'France Passion' http://france-passion is doing. You suscribe (about 30€,20£), you get an invitations-book, a sticker, a pass and you can choose free 'hospitality'
among hunderds of wine-growers- and farmers-'friends'. Free of charge.
Of course in Britain are not too many wine-growers. But a simular system could be established in the UK: publicans, farmers, private persons... 
Just launching an idea 
I'm aware there is a 'Pub Scheme', but they are charging 3 > 6£/day. This could be classified as 'commercial' and not a 'private invitation'.
Let the idea sudder, I'm shure something will come out;
Groetjes,
Leo


----------



## loubylou (Jan 14, 2008)

avandriver said:


> Its a great idea Nick
> 
> I can see the benefits from both sides having been a landlord in the past
> 
> ...



Perhaps the leaflet could state we leave the area as, or better, than we found it.
I, for one, would gladly tidy hedge rows etc.

lou


----------



## loubylou (Jan 14, 2008)

Don said:


> Superb Idea, but, Dont want to be a damp squid but read this. Extract taken from the campaign for UK AIRES.
> 
> There is very little point chasing owners of privately occupied land such as truck stops, cafes, pubs, shops and so on. Unless they wish to obtain planning permission as a fully fledged camp site (including health and safety regulations etc.) it is illegal for them to have motor caravanners staying on their land regularly.
> If the owner of private land wishes to establish a stopover, it may be possible for The Motor Caravanners’ Club to certify the site as a CL, which would be open to all motor caravanners, regardless of whether they are members of the MCC. We are currently in discussion with the MCC on this subject, so please send the details of the potential stopover site to us at Motor Caravan Magazine and we will pass these on to the MCC.
> ...



Hi Don,
We have a village hall close by and they regularly have caravans/motorhome meets on there, looks official, (not wild) I guess that would come under the parish council ?
lou


----------



## sundown (Jan 14, 2008)

loubylou said:


> Perhaps the leaflet could state we leave the area as, or better, than we found it.
> I, for one, would gladly tidy hedge rows etc.
> 
> lou



perhaps a list of conditions "or promises" on the back of the leaflet like

we will not use the stop-over as a campsite
no chairs etc. to be put outside van 
dogs will be kept on lead on lead
no litter  etc etc.
sundown


----------



## loubylou (Jan 14, 2008)

good idea nick, I like that.


----------



## Deleted member 2636 (Jan 14, 2008)

You could get a DEFRA exemption and then you can give the details to where ever you wish to stay 
http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/regulat/forms/camp/CampGuide.pdf.
 I believe that any organisation applying has to be able to satisfy various requirements regarding 3rd party liability insurance


----------



## Don (Jan 14, 2008)

This is a full Text of the law. I hope this will help with all nthe questions. Sorry it is so long.

UNDERSTANDING THE LAW

Legal restrictions in the UK affect what can and can’t be converted to a stopover. The following legal information is a little complicated.

The provision of camp sites and overnight stopover areas is mainly governed by The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act (1960), 
which states that:
“No occupier of land should ‘cause or permit’ any part of his land to be used as a caravan site unless he holds a current site licence in respect of the land” where ‘caravan’ is understood to be ‘Any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another ... and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted’; ‘caravan site’ means ‘Land on which a caravan is stationed for the purposes of human habitation and land which is used in conjunction with land on which a caravan is so situated’; a ‘site licence’ requires planning permission, granted by the local planning authority.

HOWEVER
There are a few exceptions to the act:

1. Use within the curtilage of a dwelling house If the use of the land for habitation is incidental to the enjoyment of such a dwelling  house. This allows for (eg) the occasional use by family and friends.

2. Use by a person travelling with a caravan for one or two nights provided:

· No other caravan is on the land or any adjoining land.
· The land is not used in this way for more than 28 days in the preceding year
This means that while we are allowed to stay outside pubs, restaurants, farms etc., this can’t be done for more than 28 days in the year – which means there is no point publicising that places are ‘motorhome friendly’ if they don’t have proper permission.

3. Use of holdings of five acres or more provided:

· A caravan is not stationed there for more than 28 days per year
· In that time, no more than three caravans are stationed thereon.

4. Certain situations concerning ‘exempted organisations’,

‘Exempted organisations’ are clubs or societies granted special exemption certificates. Most exempted organisations have ‘Paragraph 6’ exemption, which means that they can arrange meetings or rallies on non-camp site land for a period of up to five days. There are three ‘Paragraph 5’ societies: The Caravan Club, The Camping and Caravanning Club and The Motor Caravanners’ Club. These organisations can issue certificates to owners/occupiers of particular sites, stating that the land has been approved by them for use by their members for the purposes of recreation. These sites then become CLs (Certificated Locations) or CSs (Certificated Sites). Although in theory these sites are then open to any guests (even nonmembers of the clubs), however in practice The Caravan Club and The Camping and Caravanning Club forbid non-members to use their CLs and CSs.

5. Land occupied by a Local Authority.

WHAT THIS MEANS FOR STOPOVERS UK.

There is very little point chasing owners of privately occupied land such as truck stops, cafes, pubs, shops and so on. Unless they wish to obtain planning permission as a fully fledged camp site (including health and safety regulations etc.) it is illegal for them to have motor caravanners staying on their land regularly.
If the owner of private land wishes to establish a stopover, it may be possible for The Motor Caravanners’ Club to certify the site as a CL, which would be open to all motor caravanners, regardless of whether they are members of the MCC. We are currently in discussion with the MCC on this subject, so please send the details of the potential stopover site to us at Motor Caravan Magazine and we will pass these on to the MCC.
The fact that local authorities are exempt from the relevant legislation means that French style ‘aires’, run by the council for the use of tourists in the area – possibly but not necessarily including such facilities as waste disposal or even hook-up – are very possible.

THE BENEFITS OF STOPOVERS

So why would a town want to set up a motorhome stopover? 
There are several benefits:
· Motor caravanning is big business. Motor caravanners spend £109m every year
while they are on holiday, Excluding site fees. Attracting motor caravanners to your area will therefore stimulate tourism and commerce.
· A dedicated area for motor caravans would dissuade owners from driving into the centre of towns, causing traffic or parking bottlenecks.
· Many car parks are unused at night. By charging a small fee, councils could gain extra revenue at almost no cost to themselves.

· European motor caravanners regularly quote a lack of stopovers as the main reason for not visiting the UK. Providing better facilities for visitors could boost revenue from overseas.




TESTIMONIALS

Stopovers do exist in the UK, and they are very successful.
· There are currently two official stopovers in Canterbury, Kent. One is in a coach
park while the other is in a park & ride car park. These have brought motor caravans to the area and local parking officials have confirmed that they have never caused any problems.
· Drew Davison, Chairman of the Broughshane Improvement Committee, says of another official stopover in Broughshane, County Antrim, ‘It has been proved to benefit this village and has encouraged people to spend the weekend here, and also to use the local facilities, such as the shops, restaurants and pubs.’
· Another official stopover in Tintagel, Cornwall has brought commerce to the local businesses and is generally regarded by the community as a positive phenomenon. There are lots of excellent camp sites in the area, but that these are not ideal for short-stay tourers who just want to stop overnight, see the sights and move on.
Stopovers are a cornerstone of tourism policy in France, Germany and Italy

THE OBJECTIONS

Here are a few of the objections you are likely to hear if officials don’t take to the idea of stopovers immediately. 

It is illegal to let people stay in car parks.
- No it isn’t! There are several places in the UK – including Canterbury, Chester and Tintagel – where stopovers are already in place. 
- If officials wish to contact these local councils, I can provide names and telephone numbers on request.

There will be problems with ‘travellers’
- In some cases this may be true, but in most it is a kneejerk reaction and an excuse. Many car parks already allow overnight parking, but do not allow anyone to stay in the vehicle overnight. There is clearly very little to stop travellers staying overnight if they wanted to, and the reason there is sometimes a problem with travellers is because they do not always obey rules and regulations. 
- It is no easier or harder for a traveller to ignore a sign saying ‘No overnight camping’ as ‘Overnight stays limited to two nights’, so there is no evidence
that allowing short-term overnights stays would have any impact, positive or negative, on potential traveller problems.

It will cost money to maintain.
A stopover should not increase the cost of maintaining a car park, especially if                 Pay and Display points and the like are already in position. Motor caravanners do   not require the use of facilities such as toilet blocks, and so there is no additional  cost to maintaining these either.


----------



## Belgian (Jan 14, 2008)

*By-pass ?*

I understand it's a legal maze to obtain permission for a CL or CS campsite.
Refer again to France Passion: they clearly avoid 'camping' and so on. I think they found a clever solution avoiding all 'camping' problems.
I quote from their website:
_As regards overnight *parking*, the Invitations Formula is the free alternative offered to the camping-car owners by 840 wine-growers and farmers from almost all the regions in France. 

This *private welcome *formula allows you to *park* *freely, from one night up to 24 hours, on their property, without any financial or commercial constraint. *
Make your trips easier - the generosity of our France Passion hosts means that we can offer more than 4000 free stopover parking spaces in the most beautiful vineyards and domains in France. From Brest to Bayonne or Strasbourg to Bastia, friendly properties along your route are ready and waiting to provide you with a safe stopover site. 

With the Carnet des Invitations, motorhome owners can imagine the accent, the taste and the fragrance of their next stops, with complete freedom from March to Easter.



ON THE CAMPING CAR OWNERS SIDE :

Admitted as a *guest,* for having accepted the functioning rules and after having first made a written request, people with camping cars will receive a *personal Invitation *Card, a windscreen vehicle identification sticker, and the Invitations Booklet, for the current year. 
The camping-car owner agrees to benefit from these invitations exclusively during their period of validity (easter to easter). 
The invitation card and the windscreen sticker are offered by the property owners through France Passion. 

Only the Invitation Handbook, produced by the publisher, costs 28€ , with free postage.



BUYING THIS HANDBOOK IS THE ONLY EXPENSE TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE INVITATIONS FORMULA, FOR A PERIOD OF ONE YEAR (MARCH TO EASTER). 

JOINING FRANCE PASSION AND ORDER THE INVITATIONS HANDBOOK



ON THE PROPERTY OWNERS SIDE :

Each Winemaker or Farmer participating in the "Invitations Formula " has signed a yearly invitation addressed *exclusively to people with camping-cars, who are travelling with a fully equipped vehicle *(i.e. water, sanitation, refuse disposal etc.). 

France Passion receives this invitation and sends it to people who are interested in the scheme. With this document the property owners have agreed to allow camping cars, within the framework of the "Formule INVITATIONS", to stay freely and without charge on a single site on their property for *a day and a night, limited to 24 hours *for any one stay. 

All the participating property owners are listed in an annually edited booklet called the "Carnet des Invitations" (Invitations Booklet)._


----------



## sundown (Jan 14, 2008)

WOW!! THIS HAS GONE WAY OVER MY HEAD  
it seems that the by-laws are there, but, may be full of grey areas.
obviously, things are not enforced to the letter of the law,because, I think most of us know of at least one pub, which allows an evening stopover.
but by all means, keep on with the pro's and con's its very interesting to know exactly where one stands  I think 
  sundown


----------



## lenny (Jan 14, 2008)

Yes . Nick ,it's over my head too,But most things are cos I'm only 5ft 3in. Stick to your guns.

Regards..Lenny


----------



## sundown (Jan 14, 2008)

lenny said:


> Yes . Nick ,it's over my head too,But most things are cos I'm only 5ft 3in. Stick to your guns.
> 
> Regards..Lenny



wow! lenny I cant believe it " some-one shorter than me"
im a massive 5ft 4ins.
 you can call me lofty

    sundown


----------



## Don (Jan 14, 2008)

Sundown, I whole heartedly agree with you original posting, the only reason I meantion The ins and outs, ups and downs. i would hate for us to put a landlord, who is willing to give us a couple of nights, on the wrong side of the law. As has been said before I believe that discression is the better style of approach, rather than offering advertisement.

Belgian, that was a damn fine advert for the book. Oh and by the way, I already have the book along with a couple of books from the said book company.

If any one is interested in campaining, go to main list sub heading news and read the thread.

http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=2415


----------



## lenny (Jan 14, 2008)

sundown said:


> wow! lenny I cant believe it " some-one shorter than me"
> im a massive 5ft 4ins.
> you can call me lofty
> 
> sundown



Hang on big yin, I'm just looking for the tape measure and wor lass is hunting out my Elton John platform shoe's ,be back shortly


Lenny


----------



## sundown (Jan 14, 2008)

I understand your reasoning don.
and I agree we dont want to jepordise any friendly landlord
but some-one may figure a way round the problem
perhaps a semi-covert operation
any-one got any suggestions
one thing is definate, A landlord would be persuaded easier than a council
   sundown


----------



## Deleted member 2636 (Jan 15, 2008)

Don said:


> This is a full Text of the law. I hope this will help with all nthe questions. Sorry it is so long.
> ....
> HOWEVER
> There are a few exceptions to the act:
> ...




Here's a link to DEFRA exempted organsisations. It is by no means complete because some Clubs have had the go to push for their own Certificate without bothering to pay these ACCEO people to do the work for them. 

http://www.acceo.org.uk/Club Members.htm


----------



## Belgian (Jan 15, 2008)

*Give it a try*

Hi Sundown, Don and others,
Sundown launched a marvelous idea. Let's go for it 
Have a friend lawyer. Of course he is not home in British law. He says British are generally better protected on private matters than overhere (you don't have an ID-card ?) Basicly laws in EU share the same priciples. 'The racks may be different but the British have better clothes on it'. 
*As long as you are not going commercial it could work* Therefore I made a reference to the France Passion line of acting: 'private' invitation as a 'friend' avoiding all 'camping-situations' 
But let's not run before we can walk 
If we stick together we could work something out, keep Sundown's idea afresh 
Let's go for it !!


----------



## tresrikay (Jan 15, 2008)

*Time we changed things for the better*

This has been a most interesting thread and as I see it, we are a loose collection of individuals sharing a common passion that is brought together through this site. With over 2700 members we are a voice to be reckoned with, Is it not time that our voices together with the campaign for U.K. Aires unite in a single voice to get the laws that restrict our freedoms changed. As a start has a petition on the Prime ministers web site been started ( I feel someone better involved than me should start it). Then posts on all forums could be placed to get us to sign up. We could write to our M.P.s Informing them of our aims and asking them to ask relevant Questions on our behalf. We could use campaigning stickers, flyers, even Mass wildcamping to illustrate our cause. We must remember nothing ever changes without action taken in its cause. Our history is full of campaigns and actions that have caused laws to be changed and I feel our time is near. Scotland now has a right to camp. England now has a right to roam, all because of campaigns taken. So I am now off to join the campaign for U.K. Aires and I hope that is what all of us will do. Remember, From little acorns...................Rick.


----------



## sundown (Jan 15, 2008)

baloothebear said:


> Here's a link to DEFRA exempted organsisations. It is by no means complete because some Clubs have had the go to push for their own Certificate without bothering to pay these ACCEO people to do the work for them.
> 
> http://www.acceo.org.uk/Club Members.htm



this thread is becoming more interesting every day, 
and the input is fantastic, with ever more people adding their bit.
keep the ideas and info coming. 
I think the final result could be very benificial to all 
sundown


----------



## Geoff.W (Jan 15, 2008)

Fasinating discussion, but I wonder if I could throw something else into the pot.
*
Who would prosecute ?* 

I assume the answer would be the local authorities, if so, are they not bound by the "Citizen's Charter", particuarly in the sense that they would have to show any action they took would have to be in the "Public" intrest.

If as a group we all behaved in a reasonable and responsible way, as I believe all those that went to Cromford on the weekend did, would it not be almost impossible for the local authority to claim it was acting in the best public intrest if it decided to take action, as I do not feel anyone was inconvenienced by our meeting and certainly some of the local busineses gained.

Although this is possibly a little off subject I believe the same argument could be used where ever we stop, be it Pub car park, farmers field, etc.

I also believe, although I am aware others do disagree, that a more proactive approach like the Cromford meet, could demonstrate that motorhome stopovers are a good thing that locals should encourage, and thereby be another useful tool in createing greater acceptance of "British Aires"


----------



## Belgian (Jan 15, 2008)

Don said:


> Sundown, I whole heartedly agree with you original posting, the only reason I meantion The ins and outs, ups and downs. i would hate for us to put a landlord, who is willing to give us a couple of nights, on the wrong side of the law. As has been said before I believe that discression is the better style of approach, rather than offering advertisement.
> 
> Belgian, that was a damn fine advert for the book. Oh and by the way, I already have the book along with a couple of books from the said book company.
> 
> ...



Hi all,
Please fellows, let there be no misunderstanding;
The reason I mentioned France Passion is their *way of thinking and acting*.
* Not on the public but on the private field, and not commercial*When they started 15 yrs ago they made a torough study about it.
-	no camping but *parking*
-	on *private property*
-	the ‘host’ is *inviting* a ‘friend’
-	*not commercial*, no parking or camping fees
-	*limited *spots and time
In this way the landlord is protected and he doesn’t  have to bother about camping laws, taxes and so on, because he is acting as a private person on private property. 
You should ask why this pedant  Belgian is mingling over here ?
-	unfortunately we don’t have country-pubs 
-	we may use almost every public parking (if we find one)
-	Flanders is so dens  populated we don’t have enough free space
-	In an hour drive we are in another country (swimming to England takes a little bit longer)
Sorry to say, but Britain is a developing country for MH’ers. I just want to ad a little bit of help. No offense ? 
But if you let me, I'll go along with you.


----------



## loubylou (Jan 15, 2008)

Belgian said:


> Hi all,
> Please fellows, let there be no misunderstanding;
> The reason I mentioned France Passion is their *way of thinking and acting*.
> * Not on the public but on the private field, and not commercial*When they started 15 yrs ago they made a torough study about it.
> ...



You are very knowledgeable Belgian, thanks for this insite into your part of the world - no country pubs!

by the way your english is very good, no effense taken.
Louby


----------



## sundown (Jan 16, 2008)

Just bringing this one back to the top with this extract from the auto-sleepers owners club, which is on the list of exempted organisations

CODES OF PRACTICE
THE MOTORHOME CODE
(based on the Caravan Code)

2     
      When touring in the motorhome, members should:
  a) pitch on private land only with the express permission of the owner.

this is, in reality, telling its members, that its ok to pitch anywhere with the owners consent.
the a.s.o.c. seems to be a well run, "stick to the letter of the law organisation",
with legal backing. 
 I cant see this this rule being printed on its website if it is against the law
any-one like to comment on this?
sundown


----------



## Don (Jan 16, 2008)

I realise that I am the bad boy in all this, I assure you all, no offence was intended.
As I have said before, I would hate to get a landlord on the wrong side of the law. Again ,dont get me wrong as I am a "Wild Camper". Have been, Am and will always be, but what I do and theposition I put my self (legally) is my problem.
Just for further information The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 is now used with regard to wild camping. It was introduced on the back of raves and N.A.T.s and all the hassle that went on at Stonehenge a few years ago. Have a look at the government’s own website containing the act.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/Ukpga_19940033_en_1.htm


----------



## sundown (Jan 16, 2008)

Hi don 
you are in no way, regarded as the bad boy here 
more, the man whose pointing out the other side of the arguement

 ok! ahem!
the public order act,
 this act,among other things, restricts groups of people from singing in the street
but this does not dissuade the carol singers at xmas
and no law enforcer in his right mind would regard carol singers as a public nuisance.
I think that the authorities would also be able to see the difference between a "rave"  which is a public nuisance 
and a couple of motorhome families on holiday
who, like the carol singers, are not a public nuisance
sundown


----------



## Belgian (Jan 16, 2008)

Don,
It's very good to have someone investigating all corners of the problem. Don't you feel the 'bad boy' at all. I think all of us are appreciating it. Please don't stop with your info.
Leo (Belgian)


----------



## Don (Jan 16, 2008)

sundown said:


> Hi don
> you are in no way, regarded as the bad boy here
> more, the man whose pointing out the other side of the arguement
> 
> ...



Slight correction Sundown, School junior Carol Singers thrown out of the Arndale Shopping centre Manchester. Causing a Public Nuisance. (Fact).
Apparantly it only requires one complaint, and the police have to act (fact).


----------



## sundown (Jan 16, 2008)

wow! it can only happen in manchester.

and don, ive changed my mind I think I will shoot you!!!
    sundown


----------



## tresrikay (Jan 16, 2008)

Don said:


> Slight correction Sundown, School junior Carol Singers thrown out of the Arndale Shopping centre Manchester. Causing a Public Nuisance. (Fact).
> Apparantly it only requires one complaint, and the police have to act (fact).



Don thanks for all your hard work and Knowledge on this subject. However I have been wandering around the web meeting all sorts of unsavoury charecters but i can't find a campaign for u.k.aires. The one run by MCM seems to have been abandoned (as a lot of there stuff does) I joined that years ago, the make us welcome campaign. as you seem to be involved with that mag can you explain why they just abandon such good work. I have recently abandoned them as a subscriber. due to such wavering and poor content. A shame it used to be such a good mag, the first I subscribed to.   Cheers, Rick.


----------



## Don (Jan 16, 2008)

Hi Tresrikay.

You and me together, I just felt that it was a worth while campaign to keep going, with or without MCM.
However, if you check back through this forum, thier is an individual had-hoc campaign going here headed by Graham Hadfield. (hope he doesnt mind me mentioning him by name).

Aires in the UK

Any body requireing copy letters or information just pm me. I believe that this is the correct way to go about convincing the authorities. And if each one of us just worked on our own LA just think what a difference that would make.

Don


----------



## sundown (Jan 17, 2008)

Don said:


> Slight correction Sundown, School junior Carol Singers thrown out of the Arndale Shopping centre Manchester. Causing a Public Nuisance. (Fact).
> Apparantly it only requires one complaint, and the police have to act (fact).



hi don I've been searching the internet, without success, to find the report concerning the carol singers at arndale shoping centre.
could you please enlighten me on where you found this report.
   sundown


----------



## lenny (Jan 17, 2008)

Hi Nick read this one 
http://www.mancubist.co.uk/2006/12/25/no-mercy-for-young-carol-singers

It makes you wonder ,doesnt it (The bairns were 6 year old)


----------



## Don (Jan 17, 2008)

Hi Nick
As I live in Bolton it was oon the local evening news, but I see Lenny as found the story. Must admit the story here is in more details. 
Good to see Christianity is alive and flourishing.

Don


----------



## sundown (Jan 17, 2008)

Don said:


> Hi Nick
> As I live in Bolton it was oon the local evening news, but I see Lenny as found the story. Must admit the story here is in more details.
> Good to see Christianity is alive and flourishing.
> 
> Don



hi don I wasn't doubting your word 
but I see that the kids were asked to leave by store security
for the sake of keeping the customers happy and not by the authourities for public a nuisences offence
sundown


----------



## Don (Jan 17, 2008)

*Shoot me Please*

The point is, they were back the next day by invitation of the centre manager, I suspect under preasure from store occupants. 
Are you sure it could only happen in Manchester?

Shoot me and lets put this to sleep. LOL

Good night all

Don


----------



## sundown (Jan 17, 2008)

hi, don 
     seems things are now moving in the right direction 
and thanks to this thread, I think we all have a better 
understanding of what a suitable location would realy be.
I for one, have 5 village pubs with large car parks close by
but I would disregard all of them for reasons of adjoining residential properties,
young people congregating, etc.
thanks to your input, I think that we have learned to tread carefully
and act very responsibly when recomending a stopover point.
if and when we ever meet, remind me, I owe you a pint!
cheers   sundown


----------



## Putney (Jan 18, 2008)

I have been travelling in my vw camper for the past twenty years,and in all that time I have never been refused a stayover in a pub car park. Obviously you must use the pub,but it is no restriction on wandering locally.I am now known as the long distance local in many pubs.


----------



## lenny (Jan 31, 2008)

sundown said:


> hi,
> ive just been thinking that we all travel the country
> looking for some-where to park up, but maybe the answer is
> staring us in the face.
> ...



Just thought I'd dig up this old post to bring it back to life in case anyone missed it the first time
With the recent bad news ref. Derbyshire C.C. I think it's important that we can maintain a variety of potential sleepyspots and this one is an excellent idea. Even if you think pamphlets are a bit over the top,then a quiet chat with the landlord over a pint or two would suffice.
Just get the thumbs up,get his details and publsize it on this site.
Although pub car parks don't really typify the the meaning of wildcamping,they can offer a safe haven, or maybe even a last resort if one is getting tired.


----------



## Trevor (Jan 31, 2008)

Yes Sundown a brilliant idea if you can get it off the ground.
May i suggest that you mention Campervans on the flier as not all on here have Motohomes and i think some pub landlords could be a bit bias, better to be safe than sorry.
Another thing Sundown is members should phone the landlord to make shure there is room at the inn, to save a wasted trip.
Last but not least we are not talking about big meets here maybe one two or three vans surely that this could be classed as friends stopping over especially if the landlords were honorary members of the Wildcamping site.
Also we should have some form of identification maybe so the landlord knows that we are genuine and we not Travelers or Gypsies
Please excuse if any of this has already been posted on here. 
Regards Trevor.


----------



## Belgian (Jan 31, 2008)

_Last but not least we are not talking about big meets here maybe one two or three vans surely that this could be classed as friends stopping over especially if *the landlords were honorary members of the Wildcamping site*.
*Also we should have some form of identification* maybe so the landlord knows that we are genuine and we not Travelers or Gypsies_

I modestly think this is the way it could be done. 
Just put Sundowns, Lennys ans Trevors ideas together and we're off


----------



## Gypsylady (Feb 20, 2009)

*Pub Stopovers*

Sorry, I haven't got to the end of this thread yet. BUT Has anyone here joined the 'Motorhome Stopover' site?

We are members, and we have stayed a couple of times at a stopover in Amble, Northumberland.

Also planning to contact a Stopover site in Wiltshire so we can attend our son's wedding in August.

It is a database of pubs that allow one-night stopovers in their car parks. Obviously they would like you to eat or drink there, but our stopover in Amble didn't do meals when we stayed. In fact, they fed us for free cos we stayed when they had a 'Games Night'. Some will consider a second night.

Go to: 

www.motorhomestopover.co.uk


----------



## messenger 2.5td (Feb 20, 2009)

First time i have seen this thread,brilliant idea in these economic times.As far as pub stopovers are concerned most publicans are tenants what would the brewery have to say?Local authorities are  the ones to work on i think but they would view the idea with suspicion(would they themselves become liable to prosecution in case of accidents)Then you have to consider we all cause waste which needs to be disposed of,on the upside the possibilities for generating income to local businesses are huge in the present climate.Seems like local byelaws might be a big stumbling block,needs further investigation.On a footnote to the subject i was in Blackpool last July,noticed there were a 6 or 7 vans and caravans overnighting in Stanley park,had to be nosy and ask if it was an organised event turned out it was a model village charity event so it looks like the council can bend the rulesAndy.


----------



## Dezi (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi,
For over 20 years we have also been staying on pub carparks after having a meal in the pub ( something we often do anyway if travelling a long way ) However its just us, one night then move on, no problem. Once you wish to start organising or arranging to meet others it causes problems, legal and others, all round. I am all for expanding the pub data base so that we all benefit, but thats as far as I go.

Just my opinion.

Dezi


----------

