# DIY gas refill



## derathe (May 4, 2016)

Seen posted on FB, Anyone think this is safe?

Pete  i fill a 30 litre fork lift bottle at the garage and transfer to orange bottles .. just make sure they dont see you or you get banned .. i leave bottle in the car now ...
Like · Reply · 8 hrs
Tony 
Tony  Yeah mine are fitted in back of my van, I access through back doors into garage area, most garages take no notice but I suppose if you look safe etc because they do have cctv!!


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## vwalan (May 4, 2016)

here,s a way thats been around for years . 
footsteps - Refilling butane gas bottles when your cylinder is not compatible with the local standard
lots fill bottles and have been doing it for over 50 yrs . 
lpg was quite common in the late 60,s early 70,s .
cars were powered by it but in the early 80,s lpg pumps disappeared in many places as diesel cars became popular. 
wadham stringers were the largest fitter of lpg for cars etc in the west country. taxis . driving schools even the local china clay industry used lots of lpg vehicles .


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## snowbirds (May 4, 2016)

A long as they carry a I'm a prat sign on the side of their van so we can stay a good mile away from the filling station or camp site they are at as they will have void Insurance and any one near them when they blow up.

Snowbirds.





derathe said:


> Seen posted on FB, Anyone think this is safe?
> 
> Pete  i fill a 30 litre fork lift bottle at the garage and transfer to orange bottles .. just make sure they dont see you or you get banned .. i leave bottle in the car now ...
> Like · Reply · 8 hrs
> ...


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## Rathbone (May 4, 2016)

snowbirds said:


> A long as they carry a I'm a prat sign on the side of their van so we can stay a good mile away from the filling station or camp site they are at as they will have void Insurance and any one near them when they blow up.
> 
> Snowbirds.



It looks like the Super duper gasit systems are more dangerous going by a recent thread.


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## delicagirl (May 4, 2016)

gasit systems are not dangerous  AT ALL   -  only when idiots try to over-ride the safety features which are built in - when they try to over-fill the gas bottle, thus removing the expansion space......

Rathbone  -  why dont you just s o d off...   you really are not welcome here


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## Rathbone (May 4, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> gasit systems are not dangerous  AT ALL   -  only when idiots try to over-ride the safety features which are built in - when they try to over-fill the gas bottle, thus removing the expansion space......
> 
> Rathbone  -  why dont you just s o d off...   you really are not welcome here



Up yours.

**** THIS USER HAS BEEN BANNED SO PLEASE DO NOT REPORT THIS POST ****


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## Steve121 (May 4, 2016)

delicagirl said:


> gasit systems are not dangerous  AT ALL   -  only when idiots try to over-ride the safety features which are built in - when they try to over-fill the gas bottle, thus removing the expansion space......
> 
> Rathbone  -  why dont you just s o d off...   you really are not welcome here



How can a safety feature which can be (presumably relatively easily) overridden be regarded as 'not dangerous AT ALL'?


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## Rathbone (May 4, 2016)

Steve121 said:


> How can a safety feature which can be (presumably relatively easily) overridden be regarded as 'not dangerous AT ALL'?



Exactly. There has been no consideration given to the likliehood that such things will be bought second hand with no instructions.


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## snowbirds (May 4, 2016)

Hi delicagirl,

I do feel you could rephrase your comments a little as we would not wish to upset Free Members to much as Wild Camping could loose possible revenue if they blow them selves up before joining this well mannered fraternity.
But If you do need any more profanity's I have a couple from Royal Navy days that may suit.:cool1::raofl:

Have a nice day. Snowbirds.





delicagirl said:


> gasit systems are not dangerous  AT ALL   -  only when idiots try to over-ride the safety features which are built in - when they try to over-fill the gas bottle, thus removing the expansion space......
> 
> Rathbone  -  why dont you just s o d off...   you really are not welcome here


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## wints (May 4, 2016)

You can usually tell the folk that have just come from caravanning and from being well looked after on caravan club sites...the shock and horror on their faces (if you could see them) at the stuff that long timers, experienced campers get up to.

I've filled my own bottles for years...absolutely no issue...no accidents, no spillages, not set fire to anything, not blown anybody or any campsite up (rarely use them)...obviously I've been riding my luck and am overdue for a mishap.

F/B is full of these scare stories...grey water / switch your gas off when driving / don't sleep with gas fridge on / side facing seats / lap belts / remove your not-bolted-to-the-floor table / stow away your loose step....the list of hazards is endless...some folk would be better / safer not going out.

But hey..what nice name do you have for your van ?   What's the best place to dry your wet tea towel ?  And where's the best place to put your waste bin ?

Allen


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## Deleted member 53880 (May 4, 2016)

i know plenty of peeps filling pump to bottle, bottle to bottle,not only wild campers,farmers,and roofers like myself.if you know what you are doing it's no prob,all the best and good luck


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## maingate (May 4, 2016)

As Einstein said, "Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former".

I may be wrong but I see people do stupid things nearly every day (usually when driving) and I have not met anyone whose refillable bottle failed.

Maybe this guy was a self filler, it would be ironic if he was.


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## vwalan (May 4, 2016)

i know a few that have had gaslow bottles replaced due to leaks and faulty filler valves . one person as had his replaced twice . 
there does seem to be something a matter when filling if there is a leak. 
gotta be worth a revisit to supplier . least they could do is make sure its ok. or change them .


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## in transit (May 4, 2016)

And, if you refill Calor bottles you can chop them in for a nice freshly tested and painted one every few years.  Perfick!!!


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## maingate (May 4, 2016)

vwalan said:


> i know a few that have had gaslow bottles replaced due to leaks and faulty filler valves . one person as had his replaced twice .
> there does seem to be something a matter when filling if there is a leak.
> gotta be worth a revisit to supplier . least they could do is make sure its ok. or change them .



That's why I bought an Alugas one Alan.


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## vwalan (May 4, 2016)

maingate said:


> That's why I bought an Alugas one Alan.



yes alugas have been around for years and could be the best of the lot. 
not sure if you ever get it checked or tested?
its a shame that there does seem to be sub standard refillable bottles out there.


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## maingate (May 4, 2016)

vwalan said:


> yes alugas have been around for years and could be the best of the lot.
> not sure if you ever get it checked or tested?
> its a shame that there does seem to be sub standard refillable bottles out there.



It will need testing at some point. They have a lifespan of several years before that is needed. The date is stamped on the bottle. I cannot remember how often it is done though.


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## james1508 (May 4, 2016)

News | Danger Of Filling LPG Cylinders At Autogas Sites -Calor

There seems to be a bit of scaremongering going on with legit  refillable bottles . Why would some think its better to guess the safe amount of gas a Calor gas bottle can hold ?   This is fine if you know what your doing and you are certain its safe but why encourage others that dont know what they are doing to jump on the band waggon ?   What i do know for sure is that I wouldnt do it and i do trust the Gas It Bottles ( as  previously brought to the Groups attention, stop when the pump stops and you will be fine) 

*Reasons why i wont fill up with Calor.*

With the Calor bottles, you dont own them and Calor could prosecute you.
Fuel stations may ban you from their forecourt if they catch you filling them.
How do you know when its time to refill ?
How do you know how much to put in ?
I dont Know but I presume that you have to unscrew from your regulator to fill?  if so how inconvenient .


*Reasons why i use legit refillable *

Same price to fill as Above.
Coupled together with an Auto Change over, no unscrewing to change over or fill.
Gage on the Bottle ( like Calor Light)
Fixed unit, not having to nip out during the night to change gas over.
I own them and transfer when i sell my vans.
No problem with being banned from gas stations.
I trust  them to be safe. 
Auto stops when 80 % . 

I wont patronise with the safety aspect ,  as with both i can not find any  facts with either killing anyone.

I know what i would choose. I could go on, but wont . 

What i think we all agree on , we all hate paying Calors rip off prices !




James


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## vwalan (May 4, 2016)

james1508 said:


> News | Danger Of Filling LPG Cylinders At Autogas Sites -Calor
> 
> There seems to be a bit of scaremongering going on with legit  refillable bottles . Why would some think its better to guess the safe amount of gas a Calor gas bottle can hold ?   This is fine if you know what your doing and you are certain its safe but why encourage others that dont know what they are doing to jump on the band waggon ?   What i do know for sure is that I wouldnt do it and i do trust the Gas It Bottles ( as  previously brought to the Groups attention, stop when the pump stops and you will be fine)
> 
> ...



its not hard to know how much gas is in the bottle . 
you weigh it . the empty tare of the bottle is usually stamped on the bottle . 
once you know whats in you know how much to put in . .
mind if its empty its even easier. 
folk have been refilling bottles for almost 40 yrs that i know of . its not really something that as caused lots of disasters . 
there is a danger of over filling petrol tanks and speak to any petrol station it happens very often . 
there are thousands of people out there that really need to be under supervision . just to go out never mind drive cars etc .there are other bottles calor arent the only ones folk fill.


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## vwalan (May 4, 2016)

james1508 said:


> News | Danger Of Filling LPG Cylinders At Autogas Sites -Calor
> 
> There seems to be a bit of scaremongering going on with legit  refillable bottles . Why would some think its better to guess the safe amount of gas a Calor gas bottle can hold ?   This is fine if you know what your doing and you are certain its safe but why encourage others that dont know what they are doing to jump on the band waggon ?   What i do know for sure is that I wouldnt do it and i do trust the Gas It Bottles ( as  previously brought to the Groups attention, stop when the pump stops and you will be fine)
> 
> ...


strange you were the one having a problem refilling the extra safe refillable bottles . ha ha .


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## n brown (May 4, 2016)

maingate said:


> As Einstein said, "Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the former".
> 
> I may be wrong but I see people do stupid things nearly every day (usually when driving) and I have not met anyone whose refillable bottle failed.
> 
> ...


 i assume you spotted the name of the trailer- apt !


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## james1508 (May 5, 2016)

vwalan said:


> strange you were the one having a problem refilling the extra safe refillable bottles . ha ha .



Yes correct and thats why i thought i should share my experience to prevent others from making my mistake. My intentions weren't to discouraged others not to go down the refillable line. My only problem is that I do not want to be responsible for others filling Calor Bottles without the knowledge of doing so. My issue is that as i dont have the knowledge of filling Calor but it seems pro Calor fillers are trying to make out that Filling legit bottles are dangerous without full knowledge . Its about preference for me and i did think about buying the Calor adapter before buying Gas It but the convenience of having a remote filler,  the hassle trying to fill Calor and getting refused when travelling around Scotland where the Stations are few and far between out weighted the Calor fill adapter . Yes Cost around £300 but at least im not getting scammed by Calor and its paid for itself over the past few years.

For info, when i spoke to Gas It, Nick tells me that he only knows of One other instance a while back where someone else had done the same. The Other person never got back to him about the offer of replacing the valve . So by not pressing the pump again after it stops would be the answer. He also added that they have 5 replacement valves in stock for years that they have never had to use as they dont fail. ( Mine didnt fail, it did what its designed to do)

Thanks for the earlier explanation about filling Calor.


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## james1508 (May 5, 2016)

swiftcamper said:


> Are you an expert in gas as we come across failed safety devices on a regular basis..




No but i did have a detailed conversation with Gasit technical  about the workings of the valve and I was going to purchase a new bottle if i needed to. So i do know a little bit more now under guidance of someone who does.


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## in transit (May 5, 2016)

As I read it that post was aimed at Delicagirl, not you. 
I may be wrong though.


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## james1508 (May 5, 2016)

in transit said:


> As I read it that post was aimed at Delicagirl, not you.
> I may be wrong though.



If thats the case thanks but i suppose sharing what GasIt said about the valve may help others.


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## Tbear (May 5, 2016)

Try getting three or four Full Calor cylinders and weigh them. Varies a fair bit.

When you fill a petrol tank, there is a massive leak of fumes. Perhaps you should stand well back while a professional fills it for you.

Richard


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## vwalan (May 5, 2016)

Tbear said:


> Try getting three or four Full Calor cylinders and weigh them. Varies a fair bit.
> 
> When you fill a petrol tank, there is a massive leak of fumes. Perhaps you should stand well back while a professional fills it for you.
> 
> Richard



calor used to say on their website that bottles were filled between 80-90%.
but should anyone be filling their own you dont have to fill it . you only pay for the lpg you put in . you can just under fill to be safe . 
also remote fillers can be used . 
for years i used the remote filler from my old lpg converted car from the 70,s . it used the acme thread filler . at one time thats what we used in the uk. calor still use it for domestic tanks etc . 
the filler fitting had a none return valve so you could have the bottle valve open , fill and later turn off the bottle . remove the filler connector . yes a bit of gas came out the filler pipe . 
i,m expecting a delivery today ,seems there is a lower price from the 1st of may. only 45ppl. a drop of 8.2%. and welcome it is.


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## Tbear (May 5, 2016)

vwalan said:


> calor used to say on their website that bottles were filled between 80-90%.
> but should anyone be filling their own you dont have to fill it . you only pay for the lpg you put in . you can just under fill to be safe .
> also remote fillers can be used .
> for years i used the remote filler from my old lpg converted car from the 70,s . it used the acme thread filler . at one time thats what we used in the uk. calor still use it for domestic tanks etc .
> ...



What do you mean by a remote filler. Sounds like something you would use while sitting in the pub. 

Richard


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## maingate (May 5, 2016)

The fact that a small amount of LPG can be added after the pump has cut out has nothing to do with faulty NR Valves, it's just simple Physics.

Gas can be compressed but liquid cannot. After the pump cuts off, some of the Gas has been displaced from the bottle into the fill pipework. Once the pressure settles, the pump can be operated briefly. The amount of LPG will be miniscule but enough for the pump to overcome the gas pressure.

That is why there is a burst of LP Gas when you disconnect the nozzle.


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## delicagirl (May 5, 2016)

in transit said:


> As I read it that post was aimed at Delicagirl, not you.
> I may be wrong though.




yes it was aimed at me   -  Swiftcamper likes to bait me but i just ignore him most of the time.... :wave:


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## vwalan (May 5, 2016)

Tbear said:


> What do you mean by a remote filler. Sounds like something you would use while sitting in the pub.
> 
> Richard



ok. i will call it an outside bulkhead filler. 
i know you arent stupid but that question is beginning to make me question that. hee hee 
remote as in  not directly on the bottle . 
yes its connected to it . thought that might help . 

glad i dont need to use health care near you, ha ha . 
could end up with problems .


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## Tbear (May 5, 2016)

I am not sure but you may be safe as I am now mainly retired and most of the little I still do is mostly for the Mental Health people.

It was a genuine question even if it was put in a daft way. As you know I am a tight northerner, always looking for a way to spend a pound to save a tenner but it is nice to do it safely. Wondered if you had a more efficient valve than I have.

Richard


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## vwalan (May 5, 2016)

the valve on the acme thread part i used to use was very good and strong there was no 80%shut off system on the calor tank it was used on it filled and went straight to tank. with a connection hose of course . there was only a bleed off valve on the tank . you opened it slightly gas came out when liquid came out the tank was full. or about 80-90%. 
that same system is used on my big holding tank and i think most calor tanks or what ever people use today. 
my first lpg car was a calor kit in 1976 . had quite a few years ago. the vw system was weird as it had the liquid wrapped around the exhaust to make it vaporize in cold weather . because of the air cooling .
on other water cooled vehicles there was a vaporizing unit that the water system flowed through helping it vaporize .
but as i said earlier diesel vehicles got popular and the lpg pumps disappeared almost.


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## listerdiesel (May 6, 2016)

swiftcamper said:


> A lot of scaremongering going on from those with vested interest in selling you either refillable cylinders or bottled gas.



I think that any system that automatically does the fill limit without any operator intervention has to be better than anything that leaves it up to operator interpretation, weighing, calculations etc etc.

I've used LPG for years on our V8 Discoveries and the trailer is fitted with a refillable tank as will be the Mercedes. I'm about to fit a new system to another Discovery V8 we have just bought, and 80% fill is just standard across the tanks now.

Years ago in the 60's Calor would supply bulk LPG to people like Tonibell ice cream to run the refrigeration plant on the vans. The vans had a tank slung along one side and the fill bleed-off was as described by yourself.  I've got a feeling it was gravity fed from the big tank as well, but can't remember exactly.

Peter


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## Polar Bear (May 6, 2016)

Anyone interested in learning about filling bottles with gas should maybe get along to their local 'Hot air balloon' club? They have been filling flying tanks from a bulk tank for years. 

As I have to have a gas handling certificate to legally be able to transfer gas into air-conditioning units I would assume anyone transferring any gas should also need a similar qualification to be legal?


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## Tbear (May 6, 2016)

I have been handling gases and using gas cylinders for decades in a hospital environment. It includes things like cyclopropane and ether (I know its a vapour) and I have never required any form of certificate. Crazy, maybe but true.

Richard


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## Tbear (May 6, 2016)

Advertise them on here David and you may just make a fortune.  Not that I would condone such a practise 

Richard


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## vwalan (May 6, 2016)

Tbear said:


> Advertise them on here David and you may just make a fortune.  Not that I would condone such a practise
> 
> Richard



many bottle plants only use gravity or the vapor pressure to let liquid out the lowest part of the big /huge gas tanks to fill bottles . 
the bottles are very often put on a scale connected up to the system and when the weight is reached turn off bottle turn off system job done . 
it really is very simple . places like roofing companies or places with lpg forklift trucks have their own set up. when i had my garage and yard we had a calor supplied filling station . of course not for road going vehicles . only for fork lifts and cooking etc .


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## Tbear (May 6, 2016)

That is so true!!!

Richard


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## listerdiesel (May 6, 2016)

With the price adjusted for petrol, on LPG we reckon to get the equivalent of around 24mpg or so. Varies with what you are doing, long runs are always best as it's a big engine on light throttle, our usual reckoning is 155 miles for 48 litres of LPG solo. 

That is 10.558 mpg at a cost of 48 X 56p = £26.88. Petrol is £1.08 a litre here so that is 24.88 litres or 5.472 gallons.

155 miles for 5.472 gallons = 28.32 mpg.

Prices do vary, but that sounds OK to me, and we have the full petrol tank capacity as well as the LPG.

Peter


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## runnach (May 6, 2016)

Polar Bear said:


> As I have to have a gas handling certificate to legally be able to transfer gas into air-conditioning units I would assume anyone transferring any gas should also need a similar qualification to be legal?


 LPG is used as a refrigerant ,and there is the rub if used in that manner you need to be FGAS registered. However because filling a tank is not filling a fridge/Aircon unit it falls  outside the scope of the legislation. This would explain why Richard was able to do what he did in his work.

LPG on motorhomes at least anyone can carry out work with no qualification.i.e invade/break the system  Unless the vehicle is used for hire or reward then in this country a ACS card is required.

Channa


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## Byronic (May 6, 2016)

If I was say, going under the knife I would want the surgeon to have the correct qualifications and the expertise. The former at least shows a degree of training and competence to a curriculum and standards set by a body of experts or peers. Of course a number of somewhat less than competent slip through, but there has to be some standard otherwise we'd still be getting our treatment from the barber. And as for the latter i.e. expertise, I would rely on the recommendations of others.

Most professions require a post qualification period of several years in which practical experience is gained. And if the employer/principal's assessment of the student is one of incompetence,  further employment in the profession becomes problematical, and legislation prevents the student using the professional title. All seems fair enough to me. If you want to call yourself a gas fitter or a lawyer do the study, pass the exams carry out the practical AND prove your competence.


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## vwalan (May 6, 2016)

Byronic said:


> If I was say, going under the knife I would want the surgeon to have the correct qualifications and the expertise. The former at least shows a degree of training and competence to a curriculum and standards set by a body of experts or peers. Of course a number of somewhat less than competent slip through, but there has to be some standard otherwise we'd still be getting our treatment from the barber. And as for the latter i.e. expertise, I would rely on the recommendations of others.
> 
> Most professions require a post qualification period of several years in which practical experience is gained. And if the employer/principal's assessment of the student is one of incompetence,  further employment in the profession becomes problematical, and legislation prevents the student using the professional title. All seems fair enough to me. If you want to call yourself a gas fitter or a lawyer do the study, pass the exams carry out the practical AND prove your competence.



if you were going under the knife then i,m your man . i do have qualifications and experiance of it . i am a fully trained butcher /slaughter man .
so give me a call if need hung drawn and quartered no probs .


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## Byronic (May 6, 2016)

No confusion, the points and principals I make, apply equally to both trades and professions I wouldn't differentiate. It would be splitting hairs.


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## Byronic (May 6, 2016)

vwalan said:


> if you were going under the knife then i,m your man . i do have qualifications and experiance of it . i am a fully trained butcher /slaughter man .
> so give me a call if need hung drawn and quartered no probs .



Good to know you're fully trained, I'll bear your offer in mind, as long as it's it's slaughter first, then butcher. Unless you know better of course.
I like to recall that many early day surgeons of were in fact barbers, no reason why it couldn't have been a trained butcher, more appropriate I would have thought. You missed your calling by 200 years


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## vwalan (May 6, 2016)

i dont have to slaughter you to give you armless surgery. could even be legless . not so sure it could be heartless . 
i have done a few medical courses as well . through work etc . 
i,m not just a pretty face .ha ha .


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## Byronic (May 6, 2016)

vwalan said:


> i,m not just a pretty face .ha ha .



And I bet you got that pretty face by the doing a DIY plastic surgery course., is there no end to your skills. No, don't answer that I probably wouldn't have enough time to read the list:lol-061:


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## Teutone (May 6, 2016)

I have a gasit system. When i fill it it stops when the bottles are full. No matter how many times i press again the button, it does stop. The float in the bottle cloes the valve. That's it.


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## iampatman (May 6, 2016)

Aah, the professionalisation of trades. Now there's a topic 

Pat


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## Tbear (May 7, 2016)

Byronic said:


> If I was say, going under the knife I would want the surgeon to have the correct qualifications and the expertise. The former at least shows a degree of training and competence to a curriculum and standards set by a body of experts or peers. Of course a number of somewhat less than competent slip through, but there has to be some standard otherwise we'd still be getting our treatment from the barber. And as for the latter i.e. expertise, I would rely on the recommendations of others.
> 
> Most professions require a post qualification period of several years in which practical experience is gained. And if the employer/principal's assessment of the student is one of incompetence,  further employment in the profession becomes problematical, and legislation prevents the student using the professional title. All seems fair enough to me. If you want to call yourself a gas fitter or a lawyer do the study, pass the exams carry out the practical AND prove your competence.



As much as I agree with the spirit of what you are saying. People should be trained well but recently I have had a carpenter fit a cupboard door upside down and a plumber start to disconnect a gas pipe before turning the gas off. Luckily I spotted both (without formal training) before they became a serious problem. I got a different plumber (guess why) to fit my boiler, which he did without problem but had to get his daughter to read the instructions and work out how to do the settings. He has just got a contract with the manufacturer to be the local trouble shooter.???

Richard


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## maingate (May 7, 2016)

Some of you seemed surprised that the UK shows 3rd World traits?

Without proper Apprenticeships, you won't get proper Tradesmen. Without proper training, these Tradesmen will not make proper Management. Plumbing is a case in fact. The Job Centres offered 6 month schemes for the unemployed (a few are known to me, they were lazy,idle layabouts who took up Plumbing for the high wages possible).

This is common in most trades nowadays, the older ones are mainly retired. You are stuck with it I'm afraid.


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## vwalan (May 7, 2016)

there is also a problem that many have been trained to a very high level in certain trades and occupations but some of these jobs no longer exist. 
plumbing as changed . glazing etc almost none existant these days . so many jobs have changed or disappeared .  butchery is one , no where near as many jobs as there used to be . 
we do have to be flexible . keep learning . just because you do one job doesnt mean you cant learn another . 
plus some like solicitors we dont need . you can buy a house or defend yourself in courts . very often doing it better than the so called proffesional. 
even handle your own divorces etc . why not saves a fortune. 
too many train for jobs that dont exist then wont learn anything else. 
today even tv repairs have become redundant , its cheaper to chuck it away and buy another . labour is so expensive , this is why what were 3rd world countries now get new industry and become 1st world countries and the first world becomes third world .


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## runnach (May 7, 2016)

How true, I agree with Alan and Maingate.

I can take my father as an example,  He started off life as a painter and decorator anyone can do it right ? totally unskilled job ? ..Thats the reason why he spent a seven year apprenticeship and was able to work with gold leaf, signwrite, scumble wood.(with a finger nail not some rubber rolller). Wall paper hanging itself is an artform. working with where the light falls casting shadow , runoff with walls not straight etc..


Today of course signwriting is a thing of the past, one or two of the more exclusive breweries still have them, but majority of signs vinyls cut out on computers or the latest wrap thing.

Find a decent panel beater you will struggle , India is full of them. Even Rolls Royce dont use them like they used too...( I know of one expensive though)

All this blame on young people for lack of knowledge in my opinion we need to shoulder the blame for in the main .For it is our generation that has corrupted the old fashioned apprenticeships, universities colleges  etc ....not the customers i.e predominently young people 

Channa


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## Byronic (May 7, 2016)

Therein lies a dilemma, people will be compelled to change their vocation perhaps 5 or 6 times within their worklife to carry out work that once took 5 or 6 years of training to reach a competent standard.

Potentially it would be possible to be in training for 30 years. Yes I know cross crediting would/could shorten this time, but point made I think. Could be off putting contemplating the corresponding pay cuts while training again and again and......kind of pleased that I retired this year!

As maingate has already stated,obviously you're not going to get someone trained up in 6 months to the same standard as someone trained for 5 years. Even making allowances for advances in technology and working practises I cannot see how anything more than basic principles be learnt in 6 months, and that might well mostly just comprise learning rudimentary Maths and English in many cases


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## iampatman (May 7, 2016)

I blame Jimmy Hill 

Pat


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## vwalan (May 7, 2016)

many go and get degrees find there is no jobs in that trade .then consider themselves too clever to start at the bottom of another job. they have bneen mentally trained by their parents and teachers etc that if you get a degree you are smart. 
in real life it may not work that way. 
this is why there are many in coming folk getting jobs that smart thinking unemployed dont want to do. 
the days of a trade for life is gone . adaptability wins these days . 
the older generations messed up all british industry by thinking they were special and needed high wages . 
blame the olf ones its their fault . mind they never admit it . 
they like to blame the young . but they havent been around long enough yet.


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## runnach (May 7, 2016)

I freely admit ,if I only knew at 16 what I know now fast approaching 53.

Why? not any qualifications as such , but experience ,good and bad. I would like to think I have  learned.

One of my favourite sayings is "the man that never made a mistake never made anything" only experience teaches you to learn from those mistakes. Does that make me a more employable , useful resource ? ...I think so 

Channa


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## Byronic (May 7, 2016)

And no one could deny those are  commendable achievements. I would hazard a guess though and suggest that if you could  go back in time you'd have obtained a few 'A' levels and gone to University, am I right or am I right?


Of course one of the benefits  that vocational training, (in most instance gives), is admission to an exclusive club. Be it a lawyer, or a Registered Gasfitter. This gives access to  the bulk of the work available, not exclusively though, even lawyers get competition from the likes of McKenzie Friends etc.

I don't understand why people assume that going to University should be directly related to a job. Some courses are vocational, some to give a grounding and understanding in a particular subject, which may or may not be useful in earning a living, and still others purely for the learning. Not so different to the past, just a changed demography these days.


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## vwalan (May 7, 2016)

channa said:


> I freely admit ,if I only knew at 16 what I know now fast approaching 53.
> 
> Why? not any qualifications as such , but experience ,good and bad. I would like to think I have  learned.
> 
> ...





you also have to admit to yourself you made a mistake . many cant admit they have so never learn from it. 
i know i have made many . sometimes i think you learn faster by making them . some you could just die . but hopefully i dont have them sort of problems .


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## Tbear (May 7, 2016)

One mistake that I and the rest of my generation made - we let it all happen. We let greed and the unions destroy are industry, the apprenticeships went with it.

Nowadays people in my trade train in 2 years, we used to take nearly three. The new lot have to serve a six month preceptorship before they can be let loose on their own. We where sent all over the planet on qualification and had worked mainly on our own for the last year of training.

Richard


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## delicagirl (May 7, 2016)

Byronic said:


> And no one could deny those are  commendable achievements. I would hazard a guess though and suggest that if you could  go back in time you'd have obtained a few 'A' levels and gone to University, am I right or am I right?
> 
> 
> Of course one of the benefits  that vocational training, (in most instance gives), is admission to an exclusive club. Be it a lawyer, or a Registered Gasfitter. This gives access to  the bulk of the work available, not exclusively though, even lawyers get competition from the likes of McKenzie Friends etc.
> ...



I've been at uni now for 5 years part time and i have seen course content change significantly during those years.  The powers that be now insist that all modules/courses contain a measurable portion of 'employabliity content' and students are forced into addressing what sort of work their skills and qualifications will best suit them for.  Subject specialists and employers come to uni to give lectures about their world of work and many students go on 'internships'  (what we called voluntary work) in the holidays -  apparently many potential full time employers won't look at applicants from students who have not done internships/overseas placements/additional curricula activity related to their field of study/work  --  so, at least at my uni, it is no longer  study for its own sake.


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## Byronic (May 7, 2016)

That's Capitalism for you. Red in tooth and claw. If you can't make money out of something then it's probably of little worth.


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## trevskoda (May 8, 2016)

As a young lad leaving school i had little education but what i did have was a good set of hands and the ability to work things out,however i started as a dental technician but after a while moved into the motor trade which i liked.
I found out that there was easy money to be made as most folk had not one clue about cars or did not want to dirty there hands.
From that i opened a ltd co in anticorrosive shotblasting and painting,sold that co after many years and rebuilt a house to rent out.
Now i run a small biz selling and repairing outboard marine engines but not making much dosh but after having a stroke/bleed into the brain which was missed 3 time by doctors im happy with little money and life has changed now with 2 young kids.
What have i learned,well never trust men with suits selling pensions insurance double glassing solar panels etc as there not out to help you but more themselves.
If i had it to do again i would have just went round the world working here and there and never got tied up in the so called system that we are rail roaded into from the first day we attend school.


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