# Has anyone ever been told to move on from a lay-by??



## Deleted member 13543 (Feb 27, 2014)

One of the things I always wonder when we park up in a lay-by at night, is will I hear the dreaded "Knock in the Night"  (And no, I DON'T mean caring and sharing DOGGERS!!) I don't think I have seen a post from someone saying that they HAVE been knocked up in the night and told to move, but HAS it happened to anyone??

It would be very reassuring to newbie Wilders to know that it was a really rare event!!  We have never been knocked, only hooted at.

KP

(I was going to call this thread "Have you ever been knocked up in the night" but I soon realised that someone was bound to take it the wrong way!!)


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## Dezi (Feb 27, 2014)

Has anyone ever been told to move on from a lay-by??

Lay-by no, Pub yes

Dezi  :cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:


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## Herbenny (Feb 27, 2014)

Yep been knocked up twice and I have never forgiven him for it :lol-053:
Just kiddin  
But seriously never had any bother, never been knocked up and don't really worry about it too much now.


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## n brown (Feb 27, 2014)

never happened to me in any layby anywhere


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## Rodeo (Feb 27, 2014)

Nor me! But the wife has though!:shag:


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## Deleted member 967 (Feb 27, 2014)

The only reason to be moved on is if you are causing an obstruction in a layby.  That could be day or night.

At night if you parked and the road has a speed limit of over 30MPH then you need to have parking lights on.   



> Highway Code
> section 249
> All vehicles MUST display parking lights when parked on a road or a lay-by on a road with a speed limit greater than 30 mph (48 km/h).  [Law RVLR reg. 24]
> section 250
> ...



[ARCHIVED CONTENT] Waiting and parking (238-252) : Directgov - Travel and transport

That could be a reason for a knock on the door, if you haven't.  Another reason to fit LED light bulbs.

We have never had a knock on the door at night for any reason.  We are selective where we park and try to find quiet places, away from civilisation if possible.  Sensible parking, not causing problems for other vehicles entering, leaving or passing is the answer.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 27, 2014)

No never. Lay-by's are, by their very nature, places to rest. On what grounds would anybody try to move you on? Common sense will tell you to chose a lay-by with some form of division from the main highway, ideally a kerb or hedge or something, but if you only intend to park overnight and then move on, the only person who will worry about you even being there is maybe the local maggot-brain, whose parents bought him a new horn for Christmas! Before you settle down at night, it is a good idea to know where you are, and make sure that you could give accurate directions to the 999 team, in case you should ever need an ambulance, plod or fire service. The British have never really got the hang of building decent or practical lay-byes, but what we have got are there to be used, so don't feel guilty about using them, they don't 'belong' to anybody. Just choose wisely, and you won't have any problems

Regards Rog.


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## BrianG (Feb 27, 2014)

Never at night. Been spoken to by policeman early in the evening to check we were ok. Twice in Spain along with others in the daytime. Never in Spain while on my own or with just one other van.


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## jann (Feb 27, 2014)

Never been asked to move. occasionally we have had a police car drive past without stopping. We rarely use laybys, usually picnic spots or parking areas in remote areas. Don't cause a nuisance or obstruction and you should be OK. We prefer to park up mid to late afternoon, if we don't feel comfortable we have time to move on.


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## Val54 (Feb 27, 2014)

John Thompson said:


> The only reason to be moved on is if you are causing an obstruction in a layby.  That could be day or night.
> 
> At night if you parked and the road has a speed limit of over 30MPH then you need to have parking lights on.   .



The highway code stipulates road or layby but I've yet to see any HGV's leaving any lights on.  I must remember to point that out to them next time we park up in a layby  :raofl::raofl:


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## RoaminRog (Feb 27, 2014)

Don't bother!!!!!



Regards Rog


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## vindiboy (Feb 27, 2014)

Laybys are considered to be part of the highway and as such you have no absolute right to park in them, but as long as you cause no obstruction you will have no problem, as for lights on at night this only applies to vehicles over three tonnes and you also are supposed to face the way the traffic is going so that your rear reflectors will operate.I have not seen no overnight parking or sleeping signs in any layby but in my opinion there are better places than laybys for a pleasant nights sleep.


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## Touringtheworld (Feb 27, 2014)

No, but once woke up near Sheerness to a market being set up around us.

It looked handy at 1am in the dark 

Just nodded and drove off in my boxers and t.shirt, 5 minutes more, we would of been there for the day..... Could of sold tea for a £1


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## flyinghigh (Feb 27, 2014)

Same thing happen to me in 1972 in France, lots of noise at 0530 ,had a peep out then flew out of bed to move the MH before being stuck until lunchtime, should have realise that a town square  in France is likely to be used for a market:idea:


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## martino (Feb 27, 2014)

After a very long drive into Spain, we pulled off the main road ,drove for about another hour and finally,totally knackered,stopped in a quiet little town called Mores,by the railway station.All was peaceful until we were awoken about 7.00 by chatter..pulling back the curtain revealed about 50 people ,all around us,presumably waiting for the 7.45 to somewhere populated!All was quiet again 20 minutes later..!


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## donkey too (Feb 27, 2014)

vindiboy said:


> Laybys are considered to be part of the highway and as such you have no absolute right to park in them, but as long as you cause no obstruction you will have no problem, as for lights on at night this only applies to vehicles over three tonnes and you also are supposed to face the way the traffic is going so that your rear reflectors will operate.I have not seen no overnight parking or sleeping signs in any layby but in my opinion there are better places than laybys for a pleasant nights sleep.




That's new to me. when I was a councillor in both suffolk and Devon the Laybyes were classed as private property owned by the County Council. That is why they are allowed to et them to traders.


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## Deleted member 34243 (Feb 27, 2014)

Nope


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## Cliffy (Feb 27, 2014)

My son in Law had been on a days rock climbing and parked up overnight on the grass verge of a very minor road in the middle of nowhere half way up a mountain in Snowdonia and was knocked up at 6 am by a National Park Warden and told to move on?

He was not amused.


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## Val54 (Feb 27, 2014)

A straightforward rule of thumb is if the lay-by is tarmac and looks like it is maintained then it is odds on that it will be part of the "statutory highway" and subject to the provisions of the Road Traffic Acts, separation by a narrow island will make no difference. That said I can't see a police traffic patrol being interested in whether you have parking lights on unless it is foggy and there is a danger to you and other road users.


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## phillybarbour (Feb 28, 2014)

No never been asked to move, I also regularly use industrial estates and never been asked to move there either, usually stop with eye site of a business that is clearly open 24 hours.


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## Croftland1 (Feb 28, 2014)

Nope, never been moved on either.
Similar to a previous post though, my son was woken at 6am on two consecutive mornings by a Park Ranger when wilding on a climbing trip. This time at Stannage Edge in the Peak District. He did however tell my son that the Ranger patrolling his neighbouring patch wasn't as keen as him and he recommended some car parks where he would get away with wilding.


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## Wooie1958 (Feb 28, 2014)

No, we`ve never been asked to move.

We are however particular about where we park especially if we intend to stay the night.

We never use a layby that is not separated from the road by a verge or something similar.

We never park up on a bit of a hardstanding at the side of the road like some seem to do ( we have seen this on several occasions ).

We also never park up if there are any signs saying not to no matter if they look legal or not.

I don`t want to get into arguments with someone that a sign isn`t legal because there is a comma or something missing from it rendering it illegal.

I`m sure some will disagree with me but this is how we " play this game " and it works for us.


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## julesanian (Feb 28, 2014)

Wife thinks it's going to happen EVERY night but nope it's not happened yet ! 

We were once the ONLY wild campers on Drigg beach, near Sellafield and a police car turned up at midnight with blue lights flashing (Thank God it wasn't sounding its siren as the wife would have had a heart attack !) but they just looked at us, then turned round and sped off.  :sleep-027::sleep-027::sleep-027:


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## Val54 (Feb 28, 2014)

Normally it is fact but there will always be the exception. The differences between the status of various bits of tarmac are legion but in basic terms:

Council car parks, shopping centre delivery areas or car parks are usually private land and will not form part of the adopted highway, the RTA's will not apply, thus no lights required.
Tarmaced laybys adjacent to the A,B or C classified roads, separated or not by a verge, will normally be part of the adopted highway maintained by the local highway authority and subject to RTA's.
Main roads designated as Trunk Roads and their laybys are slightly different in that they maybe managed by the local highway authority under agreement with the Highways Agency but remain in the ownership of the Crown, RTA's apply.

I was just pointing out that you cannot always assume that you are immune from the law because of the physical appearance of the layby. 

As for National Parks, I think all of them have bylaws preventing overnight sleeping in vehicles. As another post has indicated, some rangers take a more robust attitude than others. I can understand that in peak season the number of vehicles trying to overnight might, in some areas, detract from the very countryside that we are trying to enjoy, but I have always thought that such a blunt bylaw could be refined. Possibly by seasonal variation or designated areas but heyho that is complicated and requires original thought so they do nothing and rely on a blanket ban.


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## Derby Donkey (Feb 28, 2014)

The fact of the matter is that they are part of the highway and all laws are the same whether in a layby or not.  Lights are not required for lighter vehicles if the speed limit is not in excess of 30 mph.


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## frontslide (Feb 28, 2014)

https://www.gov.uk/waiting-and-parking/parking-at-night-248-to-252
Section 249 and 250.


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## RoaminRog (Feb 28, 2014)

I have been driving 'heavies' since 1976, parking five nights a week in lay-bys and I have never been asked to move on or display lights. I doubt anything will change now. Worst thing that ever happened was a numpty blowing his horn outside, but he decided it wasn't such a good idea, after I emptied my wee-bottle out of the window and onto his car! 

Regards Rog


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## n brown (Feb 28, 2014)

I didn't realise you could empty those wee bottles,i thought they were designed to be hoyed out the window !


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## ricc (Feb 28, 2014)

whens the last time anyone saw a car parked on the road overnight with its sidelights on?  i dont recall ever seeing one... its pretty pointless anyway as any moving vehicle will have its headlights on,   its a throwback to when the majority of traffic was unlit horses and carts.


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## mark61 (Feb 28, 2014)

I would avoid staying overnight on a lay by without a separator. If I pull up for a brew or little rest, I'd leave the outside parking light on


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## mark61 (Feb 28, 2014)

I have never stopped the night there, too close to home, but I know it well. Just past RHS Wisely, I studied in Worplesdon, not far away. In fact got fuel there a few days ago on my way to visit my sister, who is unfortunate enough to live in Waterlooville. lol


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## trevskoda (Feb 28, 2014)

i see loads of trucks in seperated by island type l/b,the oddd one has lights on,do any of you think this my draw att to you,just a thought.


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## Deleted member 19733 (Feb 28, 2014)

We were at Marsh Farm, North Hullbridge, N51degrees 37.903' E0degrees 36.802' a few days ago. The entrance sign did say that the gate will be closed at 6pm, but as it was very rusty, we thought that it was not used. Wrong. At 6pm a gent arrived and asked us to move. We said we did not mind being locked in as we were not early risers, but he said NO the site must be cleared. We asked where we could stop for the night nearby as we were no locals, he pointed to two laybys just outside the gate. We thought this would suit us as it was at the end of a no thorugh road. Lovely peaceful night, only woken by the early dog walkers at 8am, also when the gates were unlocked. This part of the country lack wildcamping spots so dont pass this info on to others.



:camper::have fun:


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## Deleted member 38556 (Feb 28, 2014)

In 2012 I wild camped in Whitby. A few hundred yards  up from the pavilion on west cliff
I was not knocked up  In the full sense  
A police car stopped asked me if I was alright 
There are. No sleeping in vehicle. Signs along this road 
I said I was staying a few hours and showed my disabled blue badge 
They said it us ok and would let others know I was there to keep an eye out for me 
I slept sound in the knowledge the police where about  
Had similar on the Hadrians wall   Near Househeads on the B road  just above the A69
Well worth a visit. 

If you stop in a safe area they normally let you stay one night in most places


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## trevskoda (Mar 1, 2014)

ha ha ,as you know most drivers are from england or further afield here,just a thought on the lights on c/vans might draw att from undisirables at night.


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## Derby Donkey (Mar 1, 2014)

RoaminRog said:


> I have been driving 'heavies' since 1976, parking five nights a week in lay-bys and I have never been asked to move on or display lights. I doubt anything will change now. Worst thing that ever happened was a numpty blowing his horn outside, but he decided it wasn't such a good idea, after I emptied my wee-bottle out of the window and onto his car!
> 
> Regards Rog



I was 'done' on the A66 at Penrith for it.  They have a purge every now and again.  
Must be when the coffee jar gets low!!!


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## mark61 (Mar 1, 2014)

Tying a hangman's noose to wing mirror or roof rack usually keeps undesirables away.


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## Deleted member 967 (Mar 3, 2014)

Derby Donkey said:


> I was 'done' on the A66 at Penrith for it.  They have a purge every now and again.
> Must be when the coffee jar gets low!!!



Thanks for that reply.  I have never had a problems with parking without lights.  In the 1950s our local policeman was very hot on this and regularly threatened my brother with prosecution for parking our old Hillman Minx outside of the house at night without lights.  We had a tiny light with a white and red lens in a torpedo shape that clipped onto the window and that satisfied him.  Later I parked coaches in the same place without any problems.   It is in the Highway Code, but then there are many laws that are not enforced although still on the statute book and are available for use if they want to have a purge.

I simply pointed out in my reply to the OP that it COULD be a reason for a knock on the door.


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## jenks (Mar 3, 2014)

I've been moved on from Lake Road in Keswick, shouldn't really have parked up, but two stealth vans and needed somewhere to park and sleep ASAP (long hard day on the hill and let down by a campsite), so we acted like lords of the manor drove down and parked up.... A warden moved us on at 8:30am and said "Don't do it again...." 

I've had other people tell me I shouldn't overnight in layby's or certain carparks etc. One women told me "I park here every Sunday to walk the dog, you've no right to park here" I told her "it's good job I am cooking breakfast and not parked then" she wasn't happy about that!

I've been sleeping in cars and vans for 15+ years several times a year and those are the only times I can think of right now that I've been moved on. Of course had the doggers / swingers knocking (why aren't they ever stunningly attractive?) and lots of noisy neighbours, with loud music, partying etc etc.


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## jb0371 (Mar 3, 2014)

Croftland1 said:


> Nope, never been moved on either.
> Similar to a previous post though, my son was woken at 6am on two consecutive mornings by a Park Ranger when wilding on a climbing trip. This time at Stannage Edge in the Peak District. He did however tell my son that the Ranger patrolling his neighbouring patch wasn't as keen as him and he recommended some car parks where he would get away with wilding.



I must ave met the same bloke, he told me to go to ladybower resevoir.  Or get there after dark so if he came along inthe morning he cant prove that you had slept there overnight


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## Hawthorn (Jun 28, 2014)

*Moved on*

Yes we once got moved on, years ago, from a large layby near Phalsbourg in France. Armed police turned up and moved everyone on. The other half learned to drive with his feet still in his sleeping bag that night. We had stayed in same place en route to Switzerland the previous year with no problems.


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## pughed2 (Jun 28, 2014)

*parking on public highway*



Val54 said:


> The highway code stipulates road or layby but I've yet to see any HGV's leaving any lights on.  I must remember to point that out to them next time we park up in a layby  :raofl::raofl:



the public highway is the space between the edges and hedges of any public road, and includes lay byes......if you pay your uk road tax, that entitles you to drive or stop (in a safe parking place) on any such road in the eu. no one should harrass you from that situation, but I would not argue with any police who told me to move on, just go down the road, or round the block and park up again.........steve bristol


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## Hawthorn (Jun 28, 2014)

*Moved on*

Yes we once got moved on, years ago, from a large layby near Phalsbourg in France. Armed police turned up and moved everyone on. The other half learned to drive with his feet still in his sleeping bag that night. We had stayed in same place en route to Switzerland the previous year with no problems.


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## Deleted member 38556 (Jun 28, 2014)

Yep!!  ExWife used to tell me to move on all the time 
In the end I DID. He he he 
I have a blue badge. Once in Whitby police knocked in door 
Once I explained I was left alone all night 
Moved on about 730am


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## whitevanwoman (Jun 28, 2014)

I've never had any problems anywhere during the night although I'm sure that I was PNC'd by police about midnight parked up in an isolated forestry commission car park near Rothbury in Northumberland. I heard a car, then 2 voices, and saw torches flash around the cab. I kept my head down and kept quiet but there was no knocking. Sounded like one was on a radio or phone, then I heard one say "probably asleep in the back", then off they went.

At Embsay reservoir near Skipton at Easter, a police van turned up and gave me the once over just as I got out to take the dogs for a walk. I was asked if I was saying overnight and I said yes as I was tired and had a fair drive home. Policeman agreed that it was getting late!  We had a quick chat then off they went.

The only other incident was at a small car park at the end of a single track tarmac lane next to a beach in Northumberland, near Lindisfarne. I'd stayed overnight (thereby was no signage whatsoever), done a litter pick and was packing up to go the next morning when a grumpy farmer appeared on a quad bike and told me that camping wasn't allowed. I nearly threw the litter at him but didn't argue about lack of signage and just smiled sweetly and said that I was just leaving after a very peaceful night. With hindsight I wish I had given him the litter to dispose of. 

Because of my dogs, I rarely use laybys but have done on occasion. I always feel a bit reassured if there are truckers there or if it's a regular trucker's stopover because my white "stealth camper" transit van doesn't look out of place (apart from the pink fluffy steering wheel cover).


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## Wind Dancer (Jun 28, 2014)

I had my first knock on the door last weekend!
I was in a car park in near Banbury, that a local dog walker had recommended.   Headlights came onto me and then the knock, I put on a deep gruff voice and said 'who's there!'  (trying not to sound like a woman alone!).  It was the police, and we had a nice chat and they said it was ok to stay and they would radio in to tell the next shift not to disturb me 

I asked if I was convincing when I put on my deep voice, and they replied "no, you just sounded like a nervous woman"  :lol-053: :hammer: :egg:


I try to avoid lay-by's if possible, but have stayed in the one at Penrith on A66 without problem (unless you count the flat battery the next morning!)


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## antiquesam (Jun 29, 2014)

I've had a police drive past quite a few times and a stop and chat once when I parked on a piece of land just off the road that was obviously private property, but listed in the POI's. They asked me if I was staying the night and said it wouldn't be a problem when I said I'd like to, they even volunteered to speak to the farmer, who had probably contacted them in the first place. But then I do look very honest and trustworthy:mad2:


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## whitevanwoman (Jun 29, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that once the police realise you are a single person or respectable couple just wanting a quiet night's sleep, they are quite happy to leave you in peace. It's local people and landowners (and local councils) who tend to be the awkward ones and make unfair discrimatory judgements (although maybe they have had problems with motorhomers or travellers or litter or vandalism in the past) and who come down heavy handed. Doing a litter pick on arrival is always a good way of changing this perception and it can disarm a grumpy local person or council official jobsworth if you ask them where you can dispose of the litter you have cleared up from that particular spot. 

To be honest, I simply wouldn't move nor even open the door during the night on the grounds of personal safety and fatigue. I have a duty of care to myself. And apart from making noise, there's not a lot anyone could do to move you immediately. If you have done nothing wrong except trespass and have agreed to move the next morning, I doubt the police would be interested as they are probably so under resourced on the night shift that they wouldn't want to tie up resources nor have to do the paperwork.


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## Firebird123 (Jun 30, 2014)

*Ex Traffic cop*

I had a word with a mate of mine who is an ex traffic cop, about this subject, he said he had never asked any motorhome or caravan to move from laybys


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## jake (Jun 30, 2014)

Firebird123 said:


> I had a word with a mate of mine who is an ex traffic cop, about this subject, he said he had never asked any motorhome or caravan to move from laybys



job done ,nice one ,short an sweet,straight to the point, :sleep-027:


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## clf86ha (Jun 30, 2014)

I'm relatively new to the wildcamping scene (having only had my motorhome 2.5months). Had quite a few nights wildcamping and only had/observed two incidents (both a Scarborough Sealife ).

First was a passenger in a car, urinated up my motorhome, got back in the car and they drove off)

The second was the following weekend (recently), where another camper had parked in an end bay (for the best sea views) with his motorbike rack overhanging the prom entry/exit route (I was parked the other side of this entry/exit, but completely inside a parking bay). 
There was a fire in a prom bin early that evening. The fire brigade dealt with it, later the police arrived (just as I'd set the beds up for going to sleep), the policeman checked out the overhanging campers reg and then very politely asked him to move, so that the service vehicles could get to and address the fire damage and fix it, the camper only moved one space over, so the overhang was still an issue and one of the larger council wagons had huge issues in the dark trying to gain access to the prom avoiding the campers overhang and from the revving as he drove off down the prom, he was furious!!!!..several other specialist vans followed suit and they all came back about 5am in the morning, getting their revenge by blasting their horns and driving out the car park!


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## Derby Donkey (Jun 30, 2014)

Wind Dancer said:


> I had my first knock on the door last weekend!
> I was in a car park in near Banbury, that a local dog walker had recommended.   Headlights came onto me and then the knock, I put on a deep gruff voice and said 'who's there!'  (trying not to sound like a woman alone!).  It was the police, and we had a nice chat and they said it was ok to stay and they would radio in to tell the next shift not to disturb me
> 
> I asked if I was convincing when I put on my deep voice, and they replied "no, you just sounded like a nervous woman"  :lol-053: :hammer: :egg:
> ...



****, they're nickin the leccy now!!!


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## campervanannie (Jun 30, 2014)

*once*

Only once in 35yrs but I was sort of illegally parked that was the time when we told the nice officer that I was the driver and had a migraine and we would leave as soon as we were able he was fine about it.


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## StevenJ (Jun 30, 2014)

I've only had my MH since April but we tend to choose rural car parks as suggested by the POI list and also pub stops , not had any probs .

Stayed in Fleetwood over the weekend and have sent POI admin the spot we stayed ... 3 very large MH already in place when we arrived , and 3 more followed , apart from a group of youngsters pissed up at 11pm shouting and bawling ( one or two relieving themselves orally of their white lightning ) we had a peaceful night.

Whilst on this subject I wonder if the police where to ask you to move on ( or any other official ) , what would they actually do if you were to say you had had a couple of glasses of wine ( or other drink naturally ) and would be breaking the law should you comply with their request ??

Answers on a postcard lol


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## wildman (Jul 1, 2014)

This one has been done to death. If wilding on public land and you are over the limit to move on then you are also liable to be done for drunk in charge. That includes pub carparks as they are deemed in law to be a public place.
If you drive don't drink its very simple. Want to drink? Book into a site for a few days. Pub carparks are not a site. Nor do they usually have an exemption certificate that allows more than 3 vans to overnight.


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## Derby Donkey (Jul 1, 2014)

wildman said:


> This one has been done to death. If wilding on public land and you are over the limit to move on then you are also liable to be done for drunk in charge. That includes pub carparks as they are deemed in law to be a public place.
> If you drive don't drink its very simple. Want to drink? Book into a site for a few days. Pub carparks are not a site. Nor do they usually have an exemption certificate that allows more than 3 vans to overnight.



Yes,  it has been done to death,  but you are wrong again. 

Perhaps you should declare an interest re sites?  This is a wildcamping forum after all.


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## SteveM (Jul 1, 2014)

That's perked my interest, just to clarify, which part of wildmans post is inaccurate?


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## wildman (Jul 1, 2014)

Derby Donkey said:


> Yes,  it has been done to death,  but you are wrong again.
> 
> Perhaps you should declare an interest re sites?  This is a wildcamping forum after all.


I think having my site details in my signature is declaring an interest.  
But never mind whilst away I always wildcamp and have done so since 1967. All over the UK and Europe.
What do you mean wrong again and what law are you quoting to prove me wrong please. I am always keen to learn if I have misread something we are all fallible sometimes, especially when you get old like me and try to help people.
 I'd like you to explain what exactly you find to inaccurate with my statement. Drinking and being found drunk in charge of a vehicle in a public face is an offence, I did not define what in charge was nor apart from pub car parks did I define a public place.
The camping and caravan act clearly states any gathering of three or more vans requires a camping licence to be in place, if there is a meet or rally then the organisation holding such a rally should hold an exemption certificate. The general public are excluded from rally sites covered by the exemption certificate thus making it a private place, however in the case of a pub car park where the public can come and go it is deemed a public place. This Barrack room lawyer has been chasing planning laws for over 30years and there are a lot of misconceptions out there. Ignorance of the law is no defence. Being a public house does NOT include a campsite licence for the car park. Any gathering if more than three vans on a site not covered by a caravan site licence is illegal, not likely to be prosecuted but all the same illegal.


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## Deleted member 967 (Jul 2, 2014)

Hi Rodger

In the main the limit is one van at a time, unless the holding has over 5 acres that have not been built on.  

If it is used under 1). The persons must use the house for some of their activities.  It cannot be a stand along van on the property.   
Under 2. and 3.  are land dependant, one van under 5 acres of land, up to three *only if over 5 acres of land*.  This is limited to one or two night only at a time and to a 28 day per year limit in any year.

The Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960, amended 1968

FIRST SCHEDULE

CASES WHERE A SITE LICENCE IS NOT REQUIRED

Use within curtilage of a dwelling house
1. A site licence shall not be required for the use of land as a
caravan site if the use is incidental to the enjoyment as such of a
dwelling house within the curtilage of which the land is situated.
Use by a person travelling with a caravan for one or two nights

2. Subject to the provisions of paragraph 13 of this Schedule, a
site licence shall not be required for the use of land as a caravan
site by a person travelling with a caravan who brings the caravan
on to the land for a period which includes not more than two nights—
(a) during that period no other caravan is stationed for the
purposes of human habitation on that land or any adjoining
land in the same occupation, and
(b) if, in the period of twelve months ending with the day on
which the caravan is brought on to the land, the number
of days on which a caravan was stationed anywhere on that
land or the said adjoining land for the purposes of human
habitation did not exceed twenty-eight.
Use of holdings of five acres or more in certain circumstances

3. Subject to 'the provisions of paragraph 13 of this Schedule,
a site licence shall not be required for the use as a caravan site of
land which comprises, together with any adjoining land which is in
the same occupation *and has not been built on*, not less than five
acres—
(a) if in the period of twelve months ending with the day on
which the land is used as a caravan site the number of days
on which a caravan was stationed anywhere on that land
or on the said adjoining land for the purposes of human
habitation did not exceed 'twenty-eight, and
(b) if in the said period of twelve months not more than three
caravans were so stationed at 'any one time.

So if more than one van turns up and the pub does not have a caravan site licence or a certificate from an exempted club it is in breach of the Act.  It is up to the Local Planning Authority to pursue this.  The fine is small.  There is no offence committed by the person using the caravan/motorhome.

John


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## Deleted member 967 (Jul 3, 2014)

There are moves afoot to make some changes to Holiday Sites legislation in Wales.  At TMCTO we are in touch with the sponsor of this legislation as it still carries forward the 1960 Act definition as amended in 1968. He has said he wishes to stay within current legal definitions so I am putting forward to him the EU definition of a Motor Caravan as a vehicle of Category M1 as opposed to a caravan which at the best is a vehicle of category "O" and defined by ISO not vehicle standards definitions.

Local Authorities are empowered to do anything to provide sites but do not have the will to do this and hide behind planning as an excuse.

Provision of caravan sites by local authorities
24.—(1) A local authority shall have power within their
area to provide sites where caravans may be brought, whether
for caravans, for holidays or other temporary purposes or for use as permanent
residences, and to manage the sites or lease them to
some other person.
(2)* Subject to the provisions of this section, a local authority
shall have power to do anything appearing to them desirable in
connection with the provision of such sites*, and in particular—
(a) to acquire land which is in use as a caravan site, or which
has been laid out as a caravan site, or
(b) to provide for the use of those occupying caravan sites
any services or facilities for their health or convenience;
and in exercising their powers under this section the local authority
shall have regard to any standards which may have been
specified by the Minister under subsection (6) of section five of
this Act.
(3) The local authority shall make in respect of the use of sites
managed by them, and of any services or facilities provided or
made available under this section, such reasonable charges as
they may determine.
(4) A local authority may make available the services and 
facilities provided under this section for those who do not
normally reside in the area of the local authority as freely as for
those who do.
(5) A local authority shall, in the performance of their functions
under this section, have power, where it appears to them
that a caravan site or an additional caravan site is needed in
their area, or that land which is in use as a caravan site should
in the interests of the users of caravans be taken over by the
local authority, to acquire land, or any interest in land,
compulsorily.
(6) The power of a local authority under the last foregoing
subsection to acquire land, or any interest in land, compulsorily
shall be exercisable in any particular case on their being
authorised to do so by the Minister, and the Acquisition of Land
(Authorisation Procedure) Act, 1946, shall have effect in relation
to the acquisition of land, or any interest in land, under the
said subsection as if this Act had been in force immediately
before the commencement of that Act.
(7) A local authority shall not have power under this section
to provide caravans.
(8) In this section the expression "local authority" includes
the council of a county and a joint planning board constituted
under section four of the Act of 1947 for an area which consists
of or includes a National Park as defined by subsection (3) of
section five of the National Parks and Access to the Countryside
Act, 1949, or any part of such a National Park.

Local Authorities do use this power but then pass the administration and running (by means of a lease) of these sites to the Caravan Club.  This is why some CC sites allow non members to use them.

They do not choose to do this as a way of providing Motor Caravan facilities as their thinking is still back in the 1950s


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## Deleted member 967 (Jul 3, 2014)

and, if a twin unit caravan  ‘is composed of not more than two sections separately constructed and designed to be assembled on site by means of bolts, clamps or other devices’ (1968 Act)

This regulation allows reduced VAT 5% on units over 7m.   However HMRC refused to accept that Motor Caravans should be treated in the same way as Static caravans of the same length.


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## John H (Jul 3, 2014)

Just getting back to the original question - I can only remember once being asked to move on and that was in a small village in Spain. The local Mayor knocked on our door while we were having dinner, apologised profusely but said that a couple of his villagers had complained that we were parked too close to the cemetery and they thought it was disrespectful. He told us to finish our dinner and then he would show us a better place to stay the night in a different part of the village - and he did!

As I have said before, I have friends who are in the police (one of whom is an avid wildcamper!) and they all say that the police have better things to do than move on motorhomes. Technically it may be illegal but remember, there is no legal right for any vehicle to park on the highway. Technically the police could arrest nearly all those who park their cars outside their homes. But they don't and they won't. If the police call, be polite and I would be staggered if they moved you on (unless, of course, you are breaking some other law!).


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## willdbill (Jun 15, 2015)

My brother was  a traffic cop and in his thirty years has never moved on a motor home or campervan  
bill


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