# LPG tank for heating/cooking



## bozerduo (Aug 20, 2007)

Hi. no doubt this question has been asked before. Please excuse me for I am new to this forum stuff!!. I am wanting to fit a LPG tank under the floor on our HYMER 584, before our trip into Germany at the end of September. Has anyone any recommendations as to fitters of these tanks. I would like to find a fitter within reasonable distance of either Chesterfield or Sheffield if possible.
Regards Dave.


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## Deleted member 967 (Aug 20, 2007)

bozerduo said:
			
		

> Hi. no doubt this question has been asked before. Please excuse me for I am new to this forum stuff!!. I am wanting to fit a LPG tank under the floor on our HYMER 584, before our trip into Germany at the end of September. Has anyone any recommendations as to fitters of these tanks. I would like to find a fitter within reasonable distance of either Chesterfield or Sheffield if possible.
> Regards Dave.



Try sales@mthautogas.co.uk they had a good write up in MMM and quoted me 
"PRICE FOR FITTED LPG BULK TANK VAPOUR TAKE OFF IS: SIZES FROM 20 L TO 70 L ARE FOR SAME PRICE  £525.00 + VAT PRICE INCLUDE ALL PARTS AND LABOUR  
TO FIT A BULK TANK UNDER THE VEHICLE TAKES APROX. 8 HOURS. DURING THE FITTNG THERE IS A COURTESY CAR AVAILABLE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AND BECAUSE OUR WORKSHOP IS SITTUATED IN THE *MIDDLE OF FOREST OF DEAN *THERE IS MANY THINKS TO SEE AND PLENTY OF WALK PATHS IN THE PLEASANT WOODEN SURROUNDING.
WE WOULD BE PLEASED TO OFFER YOU OVERNIGHT STAING ON OUR PREMISSES WHERE  WILL BE HOOK-UP AND OTHER FACILITIES READY FOR YOU"

www.automtive-electrical.co.uk in Mirfield West Yorkshire also fit LPG tanks


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## Parcastol (Sep 5, 2007)

John Thompson said:
			
		

> Try sales@mthautogas.co.uk they had a good write up in MMM and quoted me
> "PRICE FOR FITTED LPG BULK TANK VAPOUR TAKE OFF IS: SIZES FROM 20 L TO 70 L ARE FOR SAME PRICE  £525.00 + VAT PRICE INCLUDE ALL PARTS AND LABOUR
> TO FIT A BULK TANK UNDER THE VEHICLE TAKES APROX. 8 HOURS. DURING THE FITTNG THERE IS A COURTESY CAR AVAILABLE FOR OUR CUSTOMERS AND BECAUSE OUR WORKSHOP IS SITTUATED IN THE *MIDDLE OF FOREST OF DEAN *THERE IS MANY THINKS TO SEE AND PLENTY OF WALK PATHS IN THE PLEASANT WOODEN SURROUNDING.
> WE WOULD BE PLEASED TO OFFER YOU OVERNIGHT STAING ON OUR PREMISSES WHERE  WILL BE HOOK-UP AND OTHER FACILITIES READY FOR YOU"
> ...




 That'll take an awfully  long time to pay for itself.


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## ian81 (Sep 5, 2007)

Parcastol said:
			
		

> That'll take an awfully  long time to pay for itself.


The point I believe of a refillable gas bottle / tank is convenience (not lugging bottles / refilling on the continent not worrying about different gas bottle types)


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## cas (Sep 5, 2007)

ian81 said:
			
		

> The point I believe of a refillable gas bottle / tank is convenience (not lugging bottles / refilling on the continent not worrying about different gas bottle types)



I have a refillable gas bottle east to install fill up at the garage no luggin


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## nedrawnep (Sep 5, 2007)

I located a 45 litre LPG tank on Ebay. Cost £20.00 complete with gauge. So cheap to fill, less than half the price of bottles.
PeterP
Bristol


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## Parcastol (Sep 5, 2007)

nedrawnep said:
			
		

> I located a 45 litre LPG tank on Ebay. Cost £20.00 complete with gauge. So cheap to fill, less than half the price of bottles.
> PeterP
> Bristol


  Now thats a much better deal, but if it is a LPG vehicle tank for supplying the engine, you will have to convert it to vapour take off, which is only a matter of removing the pipe which goes to the bottom of the inside of the tank.

"Lugging cylinders about"!!!!!!!!!!

Only got to lift it into the van surely?

Local cylinders can be obtained in Europe, often without paying a "deposit" as Calor call it,  and a regulator is only a few pounds.

You get a new cylinder from Calor and pay your £30 odd "deposit" and they will tell you that if you took it back the next day you would get your money back.   Yeh!!!  Like hell you do.   Its not a deposit at all. Its a rental agreement and after so many years you dont get anything back if you returned the cylinder. If you query it they say it is all explained on the rental agreement which you cant read until after your have signed the form because its all written on the back of it.


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## Parcastol (Sep 5, 2007)

cas said:
			
		

> I have a refillable gas bottle east to install fill up at the garage no luggin


  You will notice that most LPG pumps in garages have a sign that says you are not supposed to fill cylinders from the pumps.


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## JohnSandyWhite (Sep 5, 2007)

Parcastol said:
			
		

> You will notice that most LPG pumps in garages have a sign that says you are not supposed to fill cylinders from the pumps.



 Do you know of ANYONE who takes ANY notice of ANY warning signs?


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## shortcircuit (Sep 5, 2007)

I have 2 X 11Kg refillables in my Kontiki 660.  Have filled them up at two different ASDA stores with no problem.

Whist it is easy to say humping one bottle is no problem, if your not fit or disabled then it is a problem.

Gas is half the price


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## bozerduo (Sep 7, 2007)

*Tank Type*



			
				nedrawnep said:
			
		

> I located a 45 litre LPG tank on Ebay. Cost £20.00 complete with gauge. So cheap to fill, less than half the price of bottles.
> PeterP
> Bristol



I too have been on the lookout with ebay for a suitable gas tank. I have never seen any RED Vapour take off tanks. Be vary carefull if you intend modifying one of the Black type. For if not done correctly it could be downright dangerous.


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## bozerduo (Sep 7, 2007)

*Locker room*



			
				ian81 said:
			
		

> The point I believe of a refillable gas bottle / tank is convenience (not lugging bottles / refilling on the continent not worrying about different gas bottle types)



Main reason for my wanting to fit an underfloor LPG tank for domestic use, is to free up the existing gas locker for extra storage.


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## Parcastol (Sep 7, 2007)

> I too have been on the lookout with ebay for a suitable gas tank. I have never seen any RED Vapour take off tanks



Is there any particular reason why you want a red one?


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## pappajohn (Sep 7, 2007)

Parcastol said:
			
		

> Is there any particular reason why you want a red one?



i would think, looking at this thread, that the red tank will allow gas vapour to the appliances and a black tank will allow liquid gas to the motor, hense the colour coding.
if you want to see what happens if you get it wrong try connecting a full calor bottle to a calor cabinet heater(superser) then light it. when lit push the bottle on it's side but get ready to run away very quick. you'll get flames about 4ft high and burning globs of gas everywhere  . i wouldnt advise you do this really cos it aint big and it aint clever. and i set fire to the lounge carpet, thats how i know, believe me  
now theres one for the BRAINIAC team.

john.


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## Parcastol (Sep 7, 2007)

Well,  I wish anybody luck if they buy a tank and assume that it is vapour take-off just because its red, but please dont park near my van.


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## pappajohn (Sep 7, 2007)

Parcastol said:
			
		

> Well,  I wish anybody luck if they buy a tank and assume that it is vapour take-off just because its red, but please dont park near my van.



couldn't agree more. it was just an observation on the thread   .
personally i'd sooner fit a gaslow system and stuff the extra storage.
if you need more storage you need a bigger van or a garage version.

john


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## Loathecliff (Sep 8, 2007)

Ahh, at last some straight-talking experienced guys telling it like it is on this forum. Very refreshing. Thxs guys 

It's just that last week I was trawling the archive & saw more than one 'discussion' where the one who made no sense at all kept arguing with the ones who knew where it was at. Fine except it was the latter who had 'banned' against their handle; whilst the one talking rolloks lives on . Something to do with his big post count perhaps? - & possibly a slight lack of wisdom at the top?

*Sorry to be off-topic *, but this could be a _very_ good forum, if admin would realise that short-tempered mavericks are quite often very experienced people who don't suffer fools gladly! - (& why should they?).

Right, that's got that off my chest; & a very good early morning to all 

(Epistle saved, just in case )
............................................................
EDIT: Oh sorry, YES, Gaslow system every time


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## Parcastol (Sep 8, 2007)

Or there are always fork-lift truck cylinders which you can strap up under the van,.... but you have to fit them with the arrow on the bottom of the cylinder pointing upwards.

 few bits of pipe and an LPG vehicle filler in the side of the van.


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## Parcastol (Sep 8, 2007)

As far as I know the colour of the tank is not relevant, but I stand to be corrected.

The liquid take off tank has a pipe which goes to the bottom of the tank,  the vapour take off doesnt, so if you buy a vapour take off tank, all you have to do is unscrew the unit on top of the tank,  cut off the pipe and screw the unit back in.

Some vehicles with engines which run on LPG have tanks which have both types of take off. One for engine , one for cooker.

Also,   did you know that if you fill your domestic tank at a main Calor type depot, you can refuse to pay the Road Fuel Duty which they will want to charge you.  Let them fill it up first though and then argue. Just tell them you aint gonna pay RFD.


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## walkers (Sep 8, 2007)

Parcastol said:
			
		

> As far as I know the colour of the tank is not relevant, but I stand to be corrected.
> 
> The liquid take off tank has a pipe which goes to the bottom of the tank,  the vapour take off doesnt, so if you buy a vapour take off tank, all you have to do is unscrew the unit on top of the tank,  cut off the pipe and screw the unit back in.
> 
> ...


i may be wrong here but as i understood it the different colours were to differentiate between the two types of tank, if anyone knows then please post the definitive answer


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## paulamy (Sep 8, 2007)

*alterative cylinders*

we have been looking at gas tanks more for cheapness of the refill ,these seem a good way of refilling cheaply as the cost of a fitted tank is quite high .....http://www.gasrefill.com/index.html


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## walkers (Sep 8, 2007)

Parcastol said:
			
		

> Also,   did you know that if you fill your domestic tank at a main Calor type depot, you can refuse to pay the Road Fuel Duty which they will want to charge you.  Let them fill it up first though and then argue. Just tell them you aint gonna pay RFD.


thats gonna be interesting to see someone try as they are putting the gas into a tank on a motor vehicle my guess is they are gonna say no you have to pay it. wouldn't it be far easier to claim it back off customs and excise?


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## Parcastol (Sep 8, 2007)

Like I have already said,


Just because a tank is red,  it doent mean it is a vapour take off.

That might have been the original intention of such colour coding (if any) but somebody may have bought a "red" vapour tank and converted it to liquid for his car,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,  therefore to buy an tank which is red and assume it is vapour and connect it to your cooker, could cause a nasty big bang,......................... and that would be after your van had burned out, and then see what your insurance company says.

and had the thought that somebody might have painted it escaped you?


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## Parcastol (Sep 8, 2007)

> thats gonna be interesting to see someone try as they are putting the gas into a tank on a motor vehicle my guess is they are gonna say no you have to pay it. wouldn't it be far easier to claim it back off customs and excise?


You have a hell of a job proving to C&E that gas you bought last week wasnt for road fuel.

How can they make you pay it?

I did say argue after youv'e got the gas.

Main depots know all about RFD etc because they sell LPG for domestic use.

Years ago the price on the pump at main Calor depots didnt have VAT and RFD included.  They added that in the office, so all you had to do was tell them it was not being used for road fuel.


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## Parcastol (Sep 8, 2007)

paulamy said:
			
		

> we have been looking at gas tanks more for cheapness of the refill ,these seem a good way of refilling cheaply as the cost of a fitted tank is quite high .....http://www.gasrefill.com/index.html



Like I said.  A fork-lift truck cylinder, cause thats all it is.

Calor wont fill it for you tho.


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## walkers (Sep 8, 2007)

Parcastol said:
			
		

> Like I have already said,
> 
> 
> Just because a tank is red,  it doent mean it is a vapour take off.
> ...


oh i am so very sorry but i naturally assumed that no one would take the risk of fitting a secondhand storage tank !!you are a little confrontational but your advice is for the most part sound as for insurance companies you have to tell them of any modifications so i am sure they would ask for any certificates relating to the tanks and if they were not there they wouldn't pay you out anyway. and as they are (i presume) painted different colours to indicate thier type would it not be illegal as well as unwise to change the colour


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## Parcastol (Sep 8, 2007)

Whats wrong with fitting a second hand tank?

When was the last time you saw a NEW LPG cylinder?

Once anything is used its second hand.
Its like saying that you wouldnt buy part used tyres but buy a second hand vehicle which has part worn/used tyres/engine/gearbox/beds/cooker.

Cylinders which are red are not liquid take off. Different companies use different colours.


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## Parcastol (Sep 8, 2007)

Slightly off track here but.



> as for insurance companies you have to tell them of any modifications so i am sure they would ask for any certificates relating to the tanks and if they were not there they wouldn't pay you out anyway



ANY modifications should be reported to the insurance company, because if they are one of the companies that try to get out of paying they could say that they didnt know about the microwave you fitted, or the extra 12 volt or 240v socket.. you never told them you carried a generator plus the can of petrol, you fitted  a new fridge and was the fitter qualified to do the work, was the ciggy lighter socket good enought to power the twin dash fans etc.

There was a motorhome dealer who didnt fit  gas regulators to the vans they sold. They would sell/supply you with one and say "well you have only got to push the pipe on the end and tighten the clip"     Why,,,,,,?  because if the van blew apart they could quite legally say that the customer was the person who had completed the installation of the gas supply and that therefore they were not liable.
This same company also fit bulk tanks. Well, they call it fitting. I've seen waste water tanks fitted more securely.


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## bozerduo (Sep 9, 2007)

As I was the one who first kicked off this topic in this forum, I have been reviewing some of the comments and SUPPOSED advice. 
I wish to make things clear. I would not advise or suggest than ANYONE fitted a MODIFIED LPG tank. Or to fit ANY OTHER TYPE than one made for its purpose. for obvious reasons GET IT WRONG AND THINGS COULD (and probably will) GO BANG!!!!
Tanks for domestic use, cooking/heating, MUST BE VAPOUR TAKE OFF. They were and ARE painted RED to distinguish this very purpose.
Fork truck tanks may well be red, most propane cylinders are. Yes they have an arrow showing which way up to mount them. Is this not because they have a "dip tube" to allow liquid take off from the bottom of the tank? If so is it suggested that they are fitted "upside down"
Regards fuel tax. 
Yes it would be nice to have this removed form the bill when filling onboard domestic use tanks. Though is there not already a conciderable saving on gas price compared to conventional cylinders??
Regards to Insurance. 
We all know that a lot of companies will do anything to get out of paying for any claims. However regards having to make notifications of modifications, is this realy neccessary for every extra item fitted? if so the list could be endless, what with extra batteries, solar pannels, 240v electrcs, inverters, air conditioning  etc etc. Surely good relaible companies who specialise in MOTORHOMES accept that these are often fitted. including optional gas tanks, or refillable cylinders, rather than conventional type.
WHAT THEY WILL NOT KNOW IS IF ANY TANK THAT HAS BEEN FITTED HAS BEEN MODIFIED!!!!. 
I certainly know I would not provide cover.
Regards my original post. 
It was simply for help finding a fitter near where we live. Nearest found so far is in Stoke on Trent.


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## Parcastol (Sep 9, 2007)

The only difference between a vapour take off tank and a liquid one for running an engine is the tube inside.  
I think what must be explained here because there will be some who know nothing of what we are talking about.

When LPG is pumped into a tank or cylinder (bottle) it turns into liquid.
An LPG bottle for cooking just has a valve on the top which when opened allows the contents to escape and as it does so the liquid gas depressurises and turns to vapour (gas).

A tank (bulk) for running an engine has one (single hole) or more (multi-hole)openings into which is/are fitted the inlet/outlet/non return valve/soleniod as one unit,...... or as seperate componemts into the multihole tank.  Look at pics on ebay and you will see.  
A vehicle which runs on LPG needs to take LPG in its liquid pressurised form from the tank to the unit under the bonnet which depressurises it to run the engine.  This tank has a tube which goes from the fittings at the upper part of the tank to the bottom of the tank, therefore allowing liquid to expel from the tank thro a pipe to the bit under the bonnet.

A bulk LPG tank for cooking does not have the above mentioned tube from top to bottom of tank,  thus when the valve on the tank is opened, gas is released in the same way as on a normal gas bottle.

Therefore,  if you buy a second hand tank from ebay which was used for running a car engine and the tank has the inlet/outlet fittings,  unscrew the unit and cut the pipe off.  If the tank does not have any inlet/outlet fittings, buy them from wherever but get the one/s for vapour take off which is/are the same aprt form the tube.   So thus,  the only difference between the two tanks is the tube inside the tank.  

A fork lift truck bottle lies on its side because there is a tube to get liquid from the lowest part of the bottle, and there is a painted arrow on the bottom.  Rotate the bottle so the arrow point the other way and you then have vapour take off.


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## jamster (Feb 18, 2008)

i have been qouted £320 inc vat f ully fitted for a 20 litre tank from gas sure my m8 has the same tank for over a yr works a treat that fully fitted tested and garuntee with remote filler


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## cas (Feb 18, 2008)

Parcastol said:


> You will notice that most LPG pumps in garages have a sign that says you are not supposed to fill cylinders from the pumps.



You can if you have a remote filler, as the cylinder is fixed in how else would you fill it?


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## bozerduo (Feb 19, 2008)

jamster said:


> i have been qouted £320 inc vat f ully fitted for a 20 litre tank from gas sure my m8 has the same tank for over a yr works a treat that fully fitted tested and garuntee with remote filler



That appears to be an excellent price. can you give a link to their website
Thanks


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## terry1956 (Feb 19, 2008)

*In answer*

Hi, If you just want to use gas for cooking heating, then the gas low system is hard to beat, I have two cylinders which i fitted last year and found it a great and easy system to use, The think is when you sale the van you van remove the system if you like. Fixed LPG systems are very expensive, I just picked up a Jeep with the system fitted last year for £2400 pounds, runs great on gas, But I picked up the jeep for £800. for the seller it was a bad investment, for me its great.
Think hard before you spend your money.
terry


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## clarkpeacock (Feb 24, 2008)

Dont know if you're still looking for a fitter in Derbyshire but I had my tanks done by Autotech in Ripley http://www.autotech-lpg.co.uk/

I just looked at their website and the Hobby camper on their homepage is mine. The cheek - reckon I should be in for some royalties!!

Seriously though, they were a very helpful bunch and charged me around half the amount quoted anywhere else.


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