# changing V5 from van to motor caravan



## Squibby (Aug 21, 2011)

I have been looking into changing my log book for my van Renualt Master pannel van, once I have finished the conversion, there seem to be two benifits to this, a cheaper MOT and cheaper insurance, if the veichle is a second veichle. I only own the van so that last one could pose a problem to me, as I don't want to be limited on milage, as many of the motorhome policies I have looked into insist on. I have found a few quotes with unlimited milage but they are through the roof with the price of the cover.

Also to get the van recognised as a motorhome you need to have side windows in the rear of the van, I wan't to keep my van as a stealth van i.e no side windows(get plenty of light through the two skylights) but this will not allow me to update the V5 and get the van registered correctly which will possibly affect my insurance policy. 

Has anyone out there had any dealings with changing there V5 for a homebuild? Any advice would be most welcome.

I have heard that the DVLA have been getting more riggerous with the re-classification process recently and are in the process of bringing in new rulings, none of the info I have been able to get via the internet has these new rules but most state that they are coming into force soon. 

Any and all help is greatly received as allways.

Squibby.


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## vwalan (Aug 21, 2011)

hi, i havent changed one for two years . but the best way i know is visit your lovcal dvla office ask to see the manager or the vehicle inspector . find out from them exactly what they want to see. .after all its them that give the go a head . here sometimes the inspector comes to you . 
there is some confusion at the moment about what is allowed and what isnt . all the info i have makes no mention of windows . but i am told by a friend that at least one window in the back is a must. but i normally only take notice of what the people at the local dvla office say. best get it from the horses mouth . so they say. cheers if i find out more i shall let you know. i always deal locally much simpler than sending pics to swansea etc. 
cheers alan.


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## n brown (Aug 21, 2011)

all i ever did was take one exterior shot,4 interior and one with a back door open showing it's the same interior and the number plate.i send this with a short note- as you can see i have recently fitted out myvan to a motor caravan and would like the v5 changed to this,thank you.send with the v5 to swansea and see what occurs,did this with my last4 vans no prob. my theory is that if i was the person receiving this i would be glad to get a simple request,no looking up rules etc,and just rubber stamp it.


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## Bernard Jones (Aug 21, 2011)

Depends where you get your insurance.  I kept mine as a van and have just paid £172 for a years comprehensive insurance on a 2 year old 3.5t van larger than yours.  But I have been quoted 3 times that amount. You just need to use an insurance company that realises you are using it as a private vehicle, not a commercial one. 
Tax has just gone up to £210.  MOT will be class 7. Its restricted to 50mph single carriageway, 60mph dual carriageway, and 70mph on motorways.  Thats fast enough for me.


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## Squibby (Aug 21, 2011)

AT the moment I'm paying for insurance on my van for private use only, but it's that nagging little bug in the back of my mind that was bought on by reading about people that have had their van insured as a van and not a motor home and the insurance has not payed out when they have maid a claim, due to the changes made to the van. Have these people just not asked the right questions when asking for insurance or is this a common situation?

If you don't mind me asking which company are you insured through as they could be the answer to my question?

My self I don't want a table with a fixed anchor point or windows in the rear section, also my stove is removable so I can use it on the drive away awning as not to smell the van out with a good old truckers breakfast, so by DVLA's own rules that means that it's still classified as a van by the sounds of it, even if internaly it's fitted out 99.9% as a motorhome.

I know how sneaky insurance companies are from my motorcycling days, I had an accident that was not my fault, recomended some after market parts to keep down the cost of repaire of said motorcycle, which they aggreed to. Then a few weeks after the work was done they sent me my new updated policy through to cover the aftermarket parts and pushed up the policy price, funnly enough they didn't mention any need to change the policy when I was saving them money.

Just don't want to get any problems with the insurance as it's bad enough out there on our roads will all the un-insured drivers that are already out there.

Squibby.


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## vwalan (Aug 21, 2011)

hi, it was a few years ago just a paper exercise . no pics just fill a change of vehicle on the log book . its been getting more difficult. in europe now some countries actually specify a size that the living area must be. here pics can work. i get them to come out as its only a phone call and within a few days they are here. this year i have heard various reports that windows etc will be needed . in sept i shall be converting a truck to camper . will then have first hand what or if there is a change . two years ago i didnt have a problem. but will wait and see. like all things change is on the way. dvla are the ones to give a definition of what they want . i still say talk to them get it right first time then. 
cheers alasn.


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## Squibby (Aug 21, 2011)

Yeah best to get it from the horses mouth, I'm looking to get my conversion finished by mid October, but dont get back in the uk till mid September but I will not rush it, so if it's not done it will then have to wait. spending a lot of time away at the mo so thats slowing things down loads.

I'm still aiming to get it sorted though but time is not on my side, wan'ted it all done before the next MOT to get through with the slightly more relaxed MOT and also save a few quid, more for the finishing touches then.

Thanks again for the info Alan.

Squibby.


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## Bernard Jones (Aug 21, 2011)

I think you can expect a large increase in premiums if you make a claim, one of the reasons I just buy the minimum cover.  You say they didn't pay out due to the changes made to the van, but don't say what changes. If, for example, they fitted windows without telling the  insurance company, that would make the van easier to steal, more encouraging to thieves who can see in the back, and more expensive to repair, so I could well understand the insurance company refusing to pay out. I think you should tell them if you have made any changes to the bodywork or mechanics.  But mine is still a van (no extra windows) with removable furniture and personal effects secured in the back, none of which I would expect to be insured, as the insurance covers the van, not the contents. I could take the furniture out so nobody could even think its not an ordinary van. I don't want extra windows.  Apart from the security risk and nosey parkers looking in, it must make the van hotter in the summer.  Its all white inside, with LED lighting, so no need for extra light. I'm with Churchill based on price.  I don't know what they are like to claim from as I have never made an insurance claim.  But they will obviously have to provide the legal minimum cover throughout Europe, at least.


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## Miz (Aug 21, 2011)

*Sbmcc*

Lots of info on here

SBMCC Info

that will help answer your questions


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## mostin (Aug 22, 2011)

I've changed mine from a van to a "Motor Caravan" as the DVLA call it.

I'm like n Brown.

It's quite straight forward. The DVLA have a spec & if it meets the requirements its a camper if it doesnt meet it it's still a van. Then all i needed to do was send it 4 photos & they gave it the okk from those.

As for the insurance they work to the DVLA spec. This is done to stop people with a van with a camp bed in the back trying to over value their van (camper) & when it comes to a claim will they pay out?

I know some people get upset about rules but they are there for a reason.

One other small benifit of the change is you get an extra 10mph before you get a speeding ticket. ie a van can only do 60mph on a motorway & 50mph on a national but a motor caravan is classed the same as a car.


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## Bernard Jones (Aug 22, 2011)

Well my point was I hear people saying they have converted their van to a motorhome to get reduced insurance, but they are paying more for insurance than me.  But I suppose its the same as a car in that if you make changes to the vehicle (like fitting extra wndows) you have to tell the insurance company, and expect an increase in premium.  It will affect their administration costs, if not their risk.  And you can hardly expect them to insure extra things you have fitted to the van without telling them.


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## Fugg (Aug 29, 2011)

Bernard Jones said:


> Well my point was I hear people saying they have converted their van to a motorhome to get reduced insurance, but they are paying more for insurance than me.


 
My experience was a little bit different. In June 2010 I got a 1.9 citroen relay with a declared value of £270 insured at autonet for £330 (i didnt declare anything that was eventually installed in the van). Autonet were the cheapest in the Uk for me using all the comparison sites n cashback etc,

Now with a new van but exactly the same size and spec I wanted to get it insured legit to cover against any losses i might incur. I phoned around the specialists that cover self build conversions in progress and with a declared vehicle value of £1100 Camptons quoted me £290 for the year with 3 months to complete the conversion and very few requirements to meet satisfactory standard. 

Autonets renewal letter for 2011 was £438 and out of all the comparison sites the best price was £389, funnily enough with autonet once again. The level of cover camptons has given me is absolutely exceptional, i dont have figures to hand but very much tailored towards loss of personal goods, electronics gear and making sure you have a replacement m/home or accommodation in an accident. There is no requirement to change vehicle class to motor caravan.

im 27, hgv driver with no previous and 3 points from 2007.


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## Samson (Aug 29, 2011)

As mentioned by Miz, this has been a subject of huge debate, with discussion with the D.V.L.A. from both members and officials of the Self Build Motor Caravanners Club.
I found that I didn't need to re-register to obtain my insurance, which was with Highway, and through Insurance Choice brokers. They were familiar with insuring self builds and were very helpful.


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## donkey too (Aug 29, 2011)

Bernard Jones said:


> Depends where you get your insurance.  I kept mine as a van and have just paid £172 for a years comprehensive insurance on a 2 year old 3.5t van larger than yours.  But I have been quoted 3 times that amount. You just need to use an insurance company that realises you are using it as a private vehicle, not a commercial one.
> Tax has just gone up to £210.  MOT will be class 7. Its restricted to 50mph single carriageway, 60mph dual carriageway, and 70mph on motorways.  Thats fast enough for me.


 


Surely the motor home is far more valuable than a plain van so if you are insured for a van what happens in the event of a  bad accident. From experience insurance companies will do anything to get out of a claim and I should think if you had a write off and thwe assesor came and saw it was a motorhome and not a van they would be loath to pay out.


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## Nosha (Aug 29, 2011)

I have the opposite problem, I drive a motorhome to work when it's raining, but as it's not always the same place of work; I now need class 1 business use - try finding a company that offers that!!! The last one charged an extra £30, but don't offer it now - so at the moment I can only drive it to my main place of work!!


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## AndyC (Aug 29, 2011)

Nosha said:


> I have the opposite problem, I drive a motorhome to work when it's raining, but as it's not always the same place of work; I now need class 1 business use - try finding a company that offers that!!! The last one charged an extra £30, but don't offer it now - so at the moment I can only drive it to my main place of work!!


NFU Mutual will cover motorhomes for class 1 business use.

AndyC


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## Harmergeddon (Aug 30, 2011)

mostin said:


> One other small benifit of the change is you get an extra 10mph before you get a speeding ticket. ie a van can only do 60mph on a motorway & 50mph on a national but a motor caravan is classed the same as a car.



Close but not quite right. Vans can do 70mph on a motorway, 60 on a dual and 50 on a single. Vans that have been re-registered as a motorhome have the same speed limit as a car ONLY if their weight once the conversion is completed and installed is below 3050kg. Anything above is still subject to the other speed limits. So most smaller day style conversions will pass but those of you with the bigger vans should get your vehicles weighed if you want to know for sure what the actual speed limit is for your motorhome.


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## Mad Cow (Aug 30, 2011)

The speed limit rules are complicated, I have a Land Rover Defender "Hard Top" registered as a commercial vehicle, the only difference between this and a "Station Wagon" (registered as an "Estate Car") is the rear windows and seats but mine has the advantage of commercial vehicle tax (£210) whereas a SW pays £460.

So getting back to the subject in hand, am I restricted on my speeds?

No because a Land Rover Commercial is classified as a "Dual Purpose Vehicle" so is subject to the same speed limits as a car/motor home.

So if your base vehicle is a 4x4 version of a van, it might be different.

Confusing innit!

And just to make things trickier, since last year all Defenders including Station Wagons has been classified from new as commercial vehicles as they would have had to replace the engines in the "car" versions to meet new emissions regs but not in the commercial versions until a later date. solution? make them all "commercials".

My brain hurts!


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## Harmergeddon (Aug 30, 2011)

Mad Cow said:


> No because a Land Rover Commercial is classified as a "Dual Purpose Vehicle" so is subject to the same speed limits as a car/motor home.
> 
> So if your base vehicle is a 4x4 version of a van, it might be different.



So 4x4's are different too? There are a few vans out there that are subject to the same speed limits as cars but these are the ones like your landy that have the windows just paneled in and weight in at a gvw(incl load) of under 2000kg.


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## runnach (Aug 30, 2011)

Harmergeddon said:


> Close but not quite right. Vans can do 70mph on a motorway, 60 on a dual and 50 on a single. Vans that have been re-registered as a motorhome have the same speed limit as a car ONLY if their weight once the conversion is completed and installed is below 3050kg. Anything above is still subject to the other speed limits. So most smaller day style conversions will pass but those of you with the bigger vans should get your vehicles weighed if you want to know for sure what the actual speed limit is for your motorhome.



I agree entirely;

Channa


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## Squibby (Aug 30, 2011)

Well all I can say is that the rule makers are earning their money by making thing as difficult as possible as normal, well done to the pen pushers of this world.

Squibby.


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## runnach (Aug 30, 2011)

Mad Cow said:


> The speed limit rules are complicated, I have a Land Rover Defender "Hard Top" registered as a commercial vehicle, the only difference between this and a "Station Wagon" (registered as an "Estate Car") is the rear windows and seats but mine has the advantage of commercial vehicle tax (£210) whereas a SW pays £460.
> 
> 
> And just to make things trickier, since last year all Defenders including Station Wagons has been classified from new as commercial vehicles as they would have had to replace the engines in the "car" versions to meet new emissions regs but not in the commercial versions until a later date. solution? make them all "commercials".
> ...



In respect of the first paragraph all to do with windows and rear seats, its not that long ago if you added rear windows and rear seats the taxman wanted carriage tax too on a new vehicle ( which if I recall correctly was around 7 percent of the basic price) And to make matters worse the car tax was added to the basic price and you paid vat on that combined amount :scared:

My old Landie had 12 seats which restricted it to the lower speed limits

In respect of the second paragraph do you have a link ? that confirms this ? I wouls be interested to see how Land rove rget away with this and as an example Toyota Nissan et al dont or cant, 

Channa


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## Firefox (Aug 31, 2011)

There's not a lot of point getting it changed except if it is an insurer's requirement.

The best thing maybe to go through the local DVLA as Alan says, as I think the stuffed shirt jobsworths in Swansea are now worrying about if it "looks like" a motorcaravan or not ie Does it have the requisite number of go faster motorcaravan stripes and flashes. Even if it is fitted out like a palace inside with all the gear physically welded in place, it wont pass if it doesn't fit the jobsworth tests. Unfortunately they won't tell you what the requisite number of go faster stripes actually is!!

As for speed limits that's technically the case but in practice, everyone ignores white vans doing 70 or 80 on the big roads. I tend to keep mine to 50 to 60 anyway for fuel economy.


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## shawbags (Sep 5, 2011)

*chagin v5 docs*

Someone said on here that the DVLA will no longer change your documents from a van to a campervan,I was talking to a bloke from frank pickles insurance and he said if you convert the van and ad a side window the doc will come back as VAN WITH WINDOW,if you ad a decal/sticker saying something like motorhome or something that states it is a campervan ect the doc will come back as a CAMPERVAN or MOTORHOME.

Hope this helps,i am going through the change over in the next few weeks and will keep you all imformed,
 cheers Shawbags.


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## cooljules (Sep 5, 2011)

shawbags said:


> Someone said on here that the DVLA will no longer change your documents from a van to a campervan,I was talking to a bloke from frank pickles insurance and he said if you convert the van and ad a side window the doc will come back as VAN WITH WINDOW,if you ad a decal/sticker saying something like motorhome or something that states it is a campervan ect the doc will come back as a CAMPERVAN or MOTORHOME.
> 
> Hope this helps,i am going through the change over in the next few weeks and will keep you all imformed,
> cheers Shawbags.


 
thanks, good to hear the outcome.

i have a LT35, which is german for cargo transporter lol.


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## shawbags (Sep 6, 2011)

cooljules said:


> thanks, good to hear the outcome.
> 
> i have a LT35, which is german for cargo transporter lol.


 
I'm going through the birmingham vehicle tax office,you have to write to them or go up and do it in person there is no direct phone number, i think the days of anything being simple have long gone,if they can find a way to make things more confusing and costly for the tax payer they will,i will let you know of the outcome,cheers Shawbags.


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## cooljules (Sep 6, 2011)

shawbags said:


> I'm going through the birmingham vehicle tax office,you have to write to them or go up and do it in person there is no direct phone number, i think the days of anything being simple have long gone,if they can find a way to make things more confusing and costly for the tax payer they will,i will let you know of the outcome,cheers Shawbags.


 
i have one close to me so i can pop over to


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## Harmergeddon (Sep 6, 2011)

shawbags said:


> Someone said on here that the DVLA will no longer change your documents from a van to a campervan,I was talking to a bloke from frank pickles insurance and he said if you convert the van and ad a side window the doc will come back as VAN WITH WINDOW,if you ad a decal/sticker saying something like motorhome or something that states it is a campervan ect the doc will come back as a CAMPERVAN or MOTORHOME.


It may help your case to add decals but it does not ensure you willl get a V5 back with motor caravan on it. I am aware of a number of cases where this has happened. It seems to be as already mentioned entirely down to home much of a jobsworth you get reviewing your case at swansea and the chances are he'll be welsh and we all know how funny the welsh are! All that sheep :shag: and all!


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## drew857 (Mar 16, 2012)

*Recent Research with DVLA*

Although you do not need to re-register a campervan conversion, here are the befeits of doing so:

1.	Cheaper Insurance - Generally leisure vehicles such as campervans are cheaper to insure the panel vans.  This is because they generally have fewer claims, do fewer miles and are not used for commercial use.  Keep in mind that you can still get your self build insured as a campervan even if the vehicle is registered as a panel van.  Campervan insurance is generally 10% - 50% cheaper than van insurance. 
2.	Contents Insurance - Vehicles registered as campervans generally have better contents insurance than panel vans.  This is because a campervan contains personal belongings such as mobile phone, laptops, jewellery, etc.  Whereas a panel van typically contains tools and parts for commercial use. 
3.	Might be able to travel faster - Vans with an unladen weight of under 3050kg can travel at a maximum of 60mph on a dual carriageway.  But this increases to 70mph on a dual carriageway for vehicles registered as campervans.  All other speed limits remain the same.  Vehicles with a unladen weight over 3050kg (i.e. all 3500kg vans) have no change in speed limit when re-registering as a campervan. 
4.	Cheaper MOT - Class VII vehicles (between 3000kg and 3500kg) registered as camper vans come under the cheaper and less restriction Class IV MOT rules.  When inspecting the vehicle the MOT tester has to test the vehicle "as it is presented".  So if a campervan is presented, that would normally be class VII, even if it is not re-registered as a campervan, the MOT tester should test is as class IV vehicle. 

Change of Vehicle Classification:

If you decide that you want to re-register your van as a campervan you should contact your local vehicle authority.  In the UK this is the DVLA.
Before doing this make sure you vehicle meets all of the criteria mentioned below.
What makes a 'Motor Caravan'?
For a vehicle to qualify as a 'Motor Caravan' in the UK in the eyes of the DVLA the following permanent fixtures must be present:
1.	Sleeping Accommodation
o	There must be a bed with a minimum length of 6ft or 180cms 
o	The bed must be an integral part of the vehicle living accommodation area 
o	The bed must be permanent or converted from seats (the bed can fold away during the day) 
o	The bed fixtures must be secured directly to the vehicle floor and/or side walls, unless it is over the drivers cab compartment. 
2.	Door
o	There must be a horizontal sliding door or an outward opening rear or side door. 
3.	Seats and Tables
o	There must be a seating area for diners to sit around 
o	The table can be fixed or detachable 
o	The table must mount directly to the vehicle floor or side walls 
o	The table mounting must be secured as a permanent feature, either bolted screwed or welded.  The table itself can be detachable. 
o	Seats must be secured directly to the vehicle floor and/or side walls 
o	The seats must be secured as a permanent fixture, either bolted, riveted, screwed or welded 
o	Permanently secured seating must be available for use at a table 
4.	Water Container
Note: DVLA do not state any requirements regarding water storage.  However, most insurance companies state that the water tank should be onboard, or under the chassis.  However, some insurance companies are happy with an external water container that can be moved, such as those used with a caravan.
o	The vehicle must have an onboard or external (e,g, under the chassis) water container 
o	Note: The insurer Adrian Flux requires the water container to hold 6 gallons / 27 litres. 
5.	Storage 
o	The vehicle must have at least one cupboard, locker or wardrobe 
o	The cupboard must be an integral part of the living accommodation area 
o	The cupboard must be a permanent feature, either bolted, riveted, screwed or welded 
o	The cupboard must be secured directly to the vehicle floor and / or side walls 
6.	Cooking 
o	The vehicle must have cooking facilities powered by fixed gas, electric hob or microwave oven 
o	The cooking facilities must be secured directly to the vehicle floor or side wall 
o	The cooking facilities must be a permanent feature, either bolted, riveted, screwed or welded 
o	Gas and electric hobs must have a minimum or 2 cooking rings.  Microwave ovens must have a power source (don't just fit one that can't be used) 
o	Gas cooking facilities with remote fuel supplies must have the gas supply pipe permanently secured to the vehicle structure 
o	Gas cooking facilities with remote fuel supplies should have the gas bottle, fuel reservoir secured to the vehicle structure 
7.	Outside 
o	The vehicle must have at least one side window 
o	New! Since 2011 the DVLA are now asking that the vehicle look like a motor caravan from the outside.  The details are yet unclear what is required.  More information will appear here when available. 
How to Change a Vans Classification to Camper Van or Motorhome in the UK
In the UK, changing the classification of a van to a campervan or motorhome is fairly straightforward.  The following information is based on real experience, correct at the time of the re-classification.  This serves as a good guide, but please contact the DVLA and/or VOSA to confirm the rules regarding your vehicle.
1.	When your conversion is complete, and your van is now (nearly) a camper van or motorhome you need to contact the DVLA and inform them. 
2.	You should change your V5C (log book) document and return it to them.  You need to change the vehicle body type to "Motor Caravan".  Motor Caravan is the term used by the DVLA for campervans and motorhomes. See the DirectGov website for details on changing your V5 document. 
3.	You should also include a covering letter, briefly covering what you have done to the vehicle.  Also include photographs of your converted vehicle.  Dont include too many.  Between 10 and 20 are required.  Do ensure that you include the vehicles number plate in a shot of the front of the vehicle, and a shot of the back of the vehicle.  From the photos the DVLA can see if you have done a good conversion to the vehicle, or simply thrown a mattress in the back. 
4.	Send the paperwork to:
DVLA
Swansea
SA99 1BA 
5.	If you have done a good conversion, and the DVLA are satisfied they will return a new V5 document to you, with the body type changed. 
6.	However, if they are unsure of your conversion they will ask you to visit the local DVLA inspection office.  An agent will inspect the vehicle before recommending any change of documentation. 
7.	The DVLA do not publish strict guidelines for the above.  However, The Department of Transport do publish a strict 'motor caravan' definition for vehicles that are being imported.  Click here, and scroll down to 'Motor caravan'.  It's likely the DVLA also use the same guidelines.  However, the strict definitions here are, it seems, open to some interpretation. 
When to Change the Vehicle Classification
You should change the classification of your vehicle from 'Panel Van' to 'Motor Caravan' when your conversion is nearly complete, once the major fittings are in place (bed, kitchen) and it looks neat and tidy.  Once you think you satisfy all of the conditions mentioned above, contact the DVLA and start the re-classification process.
You don't want any vehicle inspectors to think it is not finished, so ensure it looks finished before you apply for the change.
Don't worry about finishing touches, you can always complete these once the vehicle is re-registered.


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## AndyC (Mar 16, 2012)

I've seen this text copied, and presented as fact, all over various campervan sites and forums, but so far I've been unable to identify any official source for it.

It is similar to the EU Type approval requirements for a vehicle to be classified as a motor caravan (in the M1 Special Purpose category), however DVLA have said that their body type descriptions are a separate entity to type approval requirements.

As far as I've been able to discover the DVLA requirements are subjective and not prescriptive, the vehicle must look like what a reasonable person would consider to be a motor caravan. There is no doubt that conversions meeting type approval requirement are likely to be accepted by DVLA, but they have said that each application is judged individually on it's merits.

AndyC


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## groyne (Mar 17, 2012)

Here's a link to the National Archives, scroll down to see the official Department of Transport definition of a "Motor Caravan."




[ARCHIVED CONTENT] How to import your vehicle permanently into Great Britain


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## AndyC (Mar 17, 2012)

groyne said:


> Here's a link to the National Archives, scroll down to see the official Department of Transport definition of a "Motor Caravan."
> 
> [ARCHIVED CONTENT] How to import your vehicle permanently into Great Britain


Yes, that's the definition used for type approval, it's from the SVA inspection definitions.

There is nothing regarding windows, washing facliities, water storage, length of the bed, or that the vehicle must look like a motor caravan. All of those requirements seem to have been invented by someone, possibly at the DVLA. I haven't been able to find an official source for them yet.

AndyC


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## vwalan (Mar 17, 2012)

hi ,i agree with andyc i was at our local dvla office only two weeks ago . i asked the vehicle inspector what was happenng . he couldnt give me a recent definition either . he had awhile ago given me the importing a vehicle book as thats what he used to use as a guide .but now its out of his hands . he only looks at conversions if asked by swansea . he agrees its not a good system anymore.  he says they very often challenge his decision . so now he isnt very keen on swansea either. soon he will be out of a job as they are closing the local offices so swansea will be having their say totally soon. 
remember its not the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing . even the fingers on one hand dont know what the other fingers on that hand  are doing. 
i have nothing but praise for our local dvla office very friendly and get things done rapid. most helpfull.


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