# Poor Whitby a ghost town



## mikejay (Nov 22, 2021)

Just seen this article pop up on my phone Whitby complaining its a ghost town in winter.









						The popular Yorkshire seaside resort that's now a 'ghost town'
					

Whitby, like many British seaside towns, is not as its best during the winter period




					www.examinerlive.co.uk
				




Mike


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## RichardHelen262 (Nov 22, 2021)

We used to go regularly in the winter months when it was quieter, that was until they became so anti motorhome 
If they would let us stay in the big car park in just out of season months we would happily start going again.
But we haven’t been for many years and cannot see us going again any time soon


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## GreggBear (Nov 22, 2021)

I won't patronize the place because of their anti campervan bias. Sadly I do on occasion stay close in a couple of hideaway places I know, but rarely, & even rarer do I go into the town to spend like I used to....


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## mistericeman (Nov 22, 2021)

Ohh dear how sad... Never mind.... 

Little more than a overpriced theme park anyways


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## The laird (Nov 22, 2021)

Well could this be karma ? Seeds sown etc 
looks like. Told  you so !
feel sorry for folk trying to make a living but councils screw up again ?


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## caledonia (Nov 22, 2021)

RichardHelen262 said:


> We used to go regularly in the winter months when it was quieter, that was until they became so anti motorhome
> If they would let us stay in the big car park in just out of season months we would happily start going again.
> But we haven’t been for many years and cannot see us going again any time soon


Now might be the right time tell them how they can bring some visitors and income back to the ghost town


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## RichardHelen262 (Nov 22, 2021)

caledonia said:


> Now might be the right time tell them how they can bring some visitors and income back to the ghost town


I doubt that the council are interested it isn’t them that lose out, it is the local businesses that lose out


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## caledonia (Nov 22, 2021)

RichardHelen262 said:


> I doubt that the council are interested it isn’t them that lose out, it is the local businesses that lose out


I wasn’t meaning the council I was meaning it would be a good time to speak to someone within local business.


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## mistericeman (Nov 22, 2021)

caledonia said:


> I wasn’t meaning the council I was meaning it would be a good time to speak to someone within local business.


To be honest 

The few times I visited I've heard little else but moaning from local folks about visitors and traffic... 
And a lot of the same from shop owners... Barring the money some folks spend obviously... 

Ill not be in a rush to get back there as there are much nicer places not far away where folks are actually happy to chat to you and are thoroughly delighted IF you should choose to pass them a few quid via fueling up, buying supplies and or a meal out....


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## caledonia (Nov 22, 2021)

mistericeman said:


> To be honest
> 
> The few times I visited I've heard little else but moaning from local folks about visitors and traffic...
> And a lot of the same from shop owners... Barring the money some folks spend obviously...
> ...


I knew the council’s had their heads firmly up their ar5es when it came to motorhomes but I just thought the people who benefit from tourists might be a bit more understanding.


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## The laird (Nov 22, 2021)

RichardHelen262 said:


> I doubt that the council are interested it isn’t them that lose out, it is the local businesses that lose out


Correct


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## Fisherman (Nov 22, 2021)

We were there for the first time in October. We used the excellent park and ride.
I found the contradiction between the park and ride with motorhome spaces and lack of spaces in the town stark.
Why don't they allow overnight parking for two nights in the park and ride.
The motorhome section at the top was large and only 5 or 6 vans were parked there.
But I suppose that would take some lateral thinking, something most councillors are lacking in.
The campsite (North Yorkshire moors) was 6 miles from Whitby.
As usual well positioned for caravan owners with cars.
We arrived early in the morning and it was nice and quiet, but it turned into a typical English holiday resort with loads of people.
What surprised us was the amount of dogs that were there, and the number of fish and chip shops.

I liked the place, but I doubt if I would return.


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## r4dent (Nov 22, 2021)

Lennon got it right again.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 22, 2021)

The thing about Whitby is the multitudes never get beyond the harbour, bridge and church street and those traders do well but others do struggle.  There is far more to Whitby should you choose to look.  I like Whitby and will keep going back it's easy to avoid the throng in the bottom.


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## mikejay (Nov 23, 2021)

We used to go to Whitby and Scarborough at least twice a month but when they started banning motohomes we also stopped. Not been for about 10yrs much rather go where we are welcome. Lytham,Fleetwood and Blackpool. Although when we did visit we mainly stopped over night up on the bluebank car park or the burger van layby on the a64 

Mike


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## GreggBear (Nov 23, 2021)

caledonia said:


> Now might be the right time tell them how they can bring some visitors and income back to the ghost town


Trouble is, even if they could be reasoned with in winter, soon as the sun comes back out we're once again surplus to requirements....


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## vindiboy (Nov 23, 2021)

We like Whitby in Summer, used a CCC THS last time there [ about a mile out of town ] and got the local bus in to town, if they now have a P n R with Motorhome parking that is also good, nice Wetherspoons there and good Chippies too long way from Southampton but worth a visit if in the area we think.  Last time there I got involved with the Police, saw a man beating a  12 year old boy, I stopped him, the boy ran off and the man would not speak to me so I called 999 , police came took a statement from me and others and took the man away, later that day walking in the town I saw the boy with a lady [ his Mum } and some other Children [Family]  I spoke with his Mum and was told it was her Partner  hitting on the boy  he gets very aggressive the Mother said , I apologized if I had caused her any grief  but she said no , he needs stopping, I also said that I would do the same again if I ever see any violence to Children etc ??


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## Millie Master (Nov 23, 2021)

As a retired Councillor myself on 3 different levels, Parish, District & County, if people on here feel so very strongly about the problems associated with parking at Whitby or indeed any other location throughout the UK, then it might be very worthwhile for some highly respected long standing member of both W.C. as well as the sister sites, stressing the level of income responsible owners of MoHo's can bring to an area, most especially during the winter months, also stressing the numbers of owners there are etc. etc.

Whitby will surely be exactly the same as innumerable other similar locations where tourism is their main source of income and how vitally important it is for their business owners to have some kind of income at all times of the year etc.

In this instance, if any such letter is written, I suggest you send it to Michael King the Town Clerk of Whitby town.clerk@whitbytowncouncil.gov.uk, by law he has to respond and also by law any contact has to be brought to the attention (at the very least) of the Town Mayor Councillor Linda Wild

I had a look at the town website, but can't immediately see the name of any people on the tourism committee, even if they have such a thing.

If we are a quantifiable group, then who knows, direct contact rather than discontented grumblings might well have some kind of effect.


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## Fisherman (Nov 23, 2021)

Millie Master said:


> As a retired Councillor myself on 3 different levels, Parish, District & County, if people on here feel so very strongly about the problems associated with parking at Whitby or indeed any other location throughout the UK, then it might be very worthwhile for some highly respected long standing member of both W.C. as well as the sister sites, stressing the level of income responsible owners of MoHo's can bring to an area, most especially during the winter months, also stressing the numbers of owners there are etc. etc.
> 
> Whitby will surely be exactly the same as innumerable other similar locations where tourism is their main source of income and how vitally important it is for their business owners to have some kind of income at all times of the year etc.
> 
> ...


Hi Millie, my only concern here is why should we support Whitby in quieter winter months, IF we are to be denied access in summer. On my recent October visit there, I noted that the carparks on the higher section were almost empty during the day. Yet Whitby was busy. It seems to me that there could be sufficient space available for some limited overnighting during summer.


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## barryd (Nov 23, 2021)

Agree with Bill (Fisherman), Whitby and Scarborough have been anti motorhome for years. I think in the past at least there were campsite owners on the council.  They dont want us there so many motorhomers have voted with their feet (Well wheels) and just boycott the place.


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## GMJ (Nov 23, 2021)

There is an element of cutting off your nose to spite your face here though isn't there? Good, free access for 6-8 months of the year for MH's is better than nothing. Also if the local area sees the benefit that comes with this access, then it may go someway to loosening the hardened opinions in the town.


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## maingate (Nov 23, 2021)

As far as I was concerned, Whitby was only good as a 24 hour stopover. That was time enough to check out the Shops, stock up with food and water, have a Fish supper then move on the next day. It was useful, not a 'go to' destination.


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## GeoffL (Nov 23, 2021)

FWIW, I commented on the article linked in the OP to say that we had been planning to include Scarborough and Whitby in next Spring's tour. As I wrote, we stay away from touristy areas during the school holidays and, like many motorhomers, bestow our patronage to on these places during the off season. Our niece has moved to North of Dundee and so we're planning a three to four week round trip to visit -- up the East coast and down the West. The trip will still go ahead but, because of the reported hostility towards motorhomers, we'll bypass the area or maybe drive through for quick look. Either way, we won't be dining or shopping at local establishments -- both of which we'd have done had we been welcome and adequate overnight parking been available.


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## mistericeman (Nov 23, 2021)

GeoffL said:


> FWIW, I commented on the article linked in the OP to say that we had been planning to include Scarborough and Whitby in next Spring's tour. As I wrote, we stay away from touristy areas during the school holidays and, like many motorhomers, bestow our patronage to on these places during the off season. Our niece has moved to North of Dundee and so we're planning a three to four week round trip to visit -- up the East coast and down the West. The trip will still go ahead but, because of the reported hostility towards motorhomers, we'll bypass the area or maybe drive through for quick look. Either way, we won't be dining or shopping at local establishments -- both of which we'd have done had we been welcome and adequate overnight parking been available.


Plenty of other spots along that coast that ARE happy to have us there....


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## maureenandtom (Nov 23, 2021)

Whitby Town Council have already made their view known to Scarborough Council about authorising overnight parking,    Supported, as far as I remember, by the local Chamber of Commerce.   http://nyenquirer.uk/wtc-pro-whitby-aire/


The caravan park owner was Councillor Andrew Backhouse – councillor serving on both Scarborough BC and the County Council.   Andrew's immediate family (wife and son?) also served on, I think, Scarborough Council and Statements of Interest sometimes found that ownership of the site changed from family member to family member - belonging in one statement to his parents.    The site has been sold and I think Andrew no longer has anything to do with it.  So far as I know.

Maybe a bit two faced was Andrew.   When motorhomers' proposals were accepted by a full meeting of Scarbrough Borough Council for permitted overnght parking Andrew was the cabinet holder for such matters and he stated to the press that he fully supported the proposals.   However, Andrew, it was, who proposed the original restrictions in Scarborough – when restrictions in Whitby were discussed.





Obtained under the FoI but probably by accident - it was among a bundle of emails mostly unrelated to the original question.    Nick West was not a councillor.  An employee managing part of Whitby for traffic matters.  Joe Plant, in another email asked Nick West to look at any ways of implementing probition without going through the TRO procedure.





Almost immediately after the full council approved permitted parking on five car parks he resigned as Cabinet Holder and was replaced by Councillor Penny Marsden.  Penny immediately overruled the full council  and the proposed aires folded.  She said she thought there might be planning objections.  There weren't.    But the aires' proposal never resurfaced.

There is no local opposition in Whitby.   The last time I asked about hundreds of complaints claimed by SBC there were only two.   Permitted overnight parking is supported by Whitby Council;  it''s Scarborough Council that needs to be convinced - as it once was.   Penny Marsden put a stop to it when Andrew Backhouse resigned.


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## Fisherman (Nov 23, 2021)

tt


maureenandtom said:


> Whitby Town Council have already made their view known to Scarborough Council about authorising overnight parking,    Supported, as far as I remember, by the local Chamber of Commerce.   http://nyenquirer.uk/wtc-pro-whitby-aire/
> 
> 
> The caravan park owner was Councillor Andrew Backhouse – councillor serving on both Scarborough BC and the County Council.   Andrew's immediate family (wife and son?) also served on, I think, Scarborough Council and Statements of Interest sometimes found that ownership of the site changed from family member to family member - belonging in one statement to his parents.    The site has been sold and I think Andrew no longer has anything to do with it.  So far as I know.
> ...


Right now we have a situation involving MPs lobbying for private companies they are salaried to, and therefore have outside interests. To my way of thinking this type of behaviour is exactly the same. We have councillors who own campsites preventing overnight parking so as to improve their business interests. Any decisions that a councillor takes should be made purely in the interests of their constituents, and not to line their pockets. This kind of skulduggery must be looked into. Councillors should be made to register any interest they have when voting on something that affects them personally. They should be prevented from voting on such issues.


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## Val54 (Nov 23, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> tt
> 
> Right now we have a situation involving MPs lobbying for private companies they are salaried to, and therefore have outside interests. To my way of thinking this type of behaviour is exactly the same. We have councillors who own campsites preventing overnight parking so as to improve their business interests. Any decisions that a councillor takes should be made purely in the interests of their constituents, and not to line their pockets. This kind of skulduggery must be looked into. Councillors should be made to register any interest they have when voting on something that affects them personally. They should be prevented from voting on such issues.


Declarations of interest already have to be made by councillors in local government. They are split into pecuniary and non-pecuniary interests. A pecuniary interest normally precludes a councillor from voting on a matter where that financial interest may be relevant. Non-pecuniary interests usually allow the councillor to vote. However, it is a matter for the individual councillor to decide whether his/her interests fall into either category. In my experience, many councillors seek legal advice from the Council's solicitor as to their position, but as with all things, there are some who don't!!


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## Fisherman (Nov 23, 2021)

Val54 said:


> Declarations of interest already have to be made by councillors in local government. They are split into pecuniary and non-pecuniary interests. A pecuniary interest normally precludes a councillor from voting on a matter where that financial interest may be relevant. Non-pecuniary interests usually allow the councillor to vote. However, it is a matter for the individual councillor to decide whether his/her interests fall into either category. In my experience, many councillors seek legal advice from the Council's solicitor as to their position, but as with all things, there are some who don't!!


Hi Val, well it seems to me this needs looking into then.
Clearly a councillor who owns or is financially linked to a camp site has a clear pecuniary interest and should be prevented from voting in such circumstances. I would even go further and state that they should have no input whatsoever.
IE I am a farmer/councillor who owns land, and would like planning permission for homes to be built on some of my land, dramatically increasing the value of the land.
To my way of thinking this is exactly the same.


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## Val54 (Nov 23, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> Hi Val, well it seems to me this needs looking into then.
> Clearly a councillor who owns or is financially linked to a camp site has a clear pecuniary interest and should be prevented from voting in such circumstances. I would even go further and state that they should have no input whatsoever.
> IE I am a farmer/councillor who owns land, and would like planning permission for homes to be built on some of my land, dramatically increasing the value of the land.
> To my way of thinking this is exactly the same.


 Agreed, and using your example, the councillor would be expected to leave the committee room so as not to "openly" influence the discussion/vote by gestures, passing of notes etc.


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## Robmac (Nov 23, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> IE I am a farmer/councillor who owns land, and would like planning permission for homes to be built on some of my land, dramatically increasing the value of the land.
> To my way of thinking this is exactly the same.



A farmer/councillor in our village did exactly that Bill and was kicked off of the council when a few from the village complained that he had an interest.

A couple of years down the line he is back on the council and his mates have made sure that he has now got the permission even though he could not take part in the decision.

They are also building a new railway line close to our village. We were shown 3 options - they have now chosen the most expensive and disruptive option to go ahead. Guess which farmers land it will be going through and guess who will make millions out of it? What makes things worse is that the council will not justify why they are taking that route.


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## Fisherman (Nov 23, 2021)

Val54 said:


> Agreed, and using your example, the councillor would be expected to leave the committee room so as not to "openly" influence the discussion/vote by gestures, passing of notes etc.


And that’s exactly what a campsite owner should do in these circumstances.
And I take note of “openly”, and there’s the rub.
Even if they were prevented from voting they could influence the decision without voting.


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## Fisherman (Nov 23, 2021)

Robmac said:


> A farmer/councillor in our village did exactly that Bill and was kicked off of the council when a few from the village complained that he had an interest.
> 
> A couple of years down the line he is back on the council and his mates have made sure that he has now got the permission even though he could not take part in the decision.
> 
> They are also building a new railway line close to our village. We were shown 3 options - they have now chosen the most expensive and disruptive option to go ahead. Guess which farmers land it will be going through and guess who will make millions out of it? What makes things worse is that the council will not justify why they are taking that route.


And Bojo tells us we are not living in a corrupt country.


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## maingate (Nov 23, 2021)

I think it was happening long before Boris came along.


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## Fisherman (Nov 23, 2021)

maingate said:


> I think it was happening long before Boris came along.


I know it was, but he stated that we don’t live in a corrupt country.


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## kensowerby (Nov 23, 2021)

As long as you have Scarborough council dictating terms for Whitby nothing will change, Scarborough don't want camper vans only to suit themselves when money is short in the winter months.
I live 35 miles away and with there attitude sod em I spend my money where I'm wanted.
I have a sledge hammer just like them TWO FACED


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## alcam (Nov 24, 2021)

GreggBear said:


> Trouble is, even if they could be reasoned with in winter, soon as the sun comes back out we're once again surplus to requirements....


Really don't have a problem with this , quite common in France too . A restaurant may do a special offer on a Tuesday , you wouldn't expect them to do the same on a Saturday night would you ?
Having said all that there is space in Whitby carparks to accomodate us most of the time . Haven't been for a few years but would happily return . In my experience it is not the people [or publicans/cafe owners] who don't want us . It is a couple of local councillors . Why would you stop going somewhere you like because of people like that ?


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## Fisherman (Nov 24, 2021)

alcam said:


> Really don't have a problem with this , quite common in France too . A restaurant may do a special offer on a Tuesday , you wouldn't expect them to do the same on a Saturday night would you ?
> Having said all that there is space in Whitby carparks to accomodate us most of the time . Haven't been for a few years but would happily return . In my experience it is not the people [or publicans/cafe owners] who don't want us . It is a couple of local councillors . Why would you stop going somewhere you like because of people like that ?


There’s a massive difference between a privately owned restaurant taking commercial decisions to help make their business viable, and a public body creating rules in order to line the pockets of some who run said public body.
As you quite rightly pointed out Alcam, there is plenty of space in Whitby carparks.
If as some on here have stated that there is a clear conflict of interest involving decision makers, there may even be legal arguments against what’s going on in Whitby.
Also currently overnight parking in Whitby is illegal, and would incur penalty charges. I think that’s what is stopping parking in Whitby, and until this changes then parking there is not feasible. If the council at some point in the future do allow parking outwith the high season, then it’s up to each individual as to what they would do, but there are plenty of other places to visit that don’t restrict us, I would rather take my money there, but that’s just my choice.


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## Fisherman (Nov 24, 2021)

I am sure I remember Tom posting on Whitby a while back.
If I am correct Tom stated that amongst other reasons given for us not being welcome in Scarborough and Whitby were the usual anecdotal references to litter, inappropriate  dumping of chemical waste,  selfish parking, and so on. Now if these assertions were true, why would they stop in winter months. After all cassettes need emptying in winter, and we can still create litter.
The only difference I see is that campsites are normally closed in winter months.

I seem to remember our dearly departed old friend Andrew (Channa) making the same points.


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## alcam (Nov 24, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> There’s a massive difference between a privately owned restaurant taking commercial decisions to help make their business viable, and a public body creating rules in order to line the pockets of some who run said public body.


Not really . I was speaking generally and it is basic supply and demand . Whether for commercial reasons or lack of space it is the same principle 
France is often quoted as the benchmark for how to deal with motorhomes . Many of the hotspots there have restrictions in high season


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## Fisherman (Nov 24, 2021)

alcam said:


> Not really . I was speaking generally and it is basic supply and demand . Whether for commercial reasons or lack of space it is the same principle
> France is often quoted as the benchmark for how to deal with motorhomes . Many of the hotspots there have restrictions in high season


Alcam, it's been reported on here that two members of the council own caravan parks.
Also I was there when it was heaving, and there was lots of empty spaces in carparks, one on the higher level was completely empty.
Also the reasons given for banning us include anecdotal reports of improper disposal of chemical waste, litter, and selfish parking.
All of the above are non seasonal if correct.
For these reasons it would be difficult for the council to do a u turn on winter parking, but who knows.
But if they did, it would make a mockery of said anecdotal evidence.
But as you were speaking generally, I would have to agree, but not specifically here.


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## barryd (Nov 24, 2021)

Probably best we dont turn this political as its an interesting thread.

(Maingate falls off his chair in shock)


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## Fisherman (Nov 24, 2021)

Found this from 2018 when the restrictions came into place.
It's full of the usual "Local people"anecdotal claims.
But the section dealing with boat owners who also have motorhomes, is priceless.

whitby-introduces-new-rules-campervans-14923275


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## maingate (Nov 24, 2021)

I think there are too many 'conspiracy theory' members on here.  

Quite often a situation arises and gets compounded by sheer incompetence, especially with Councils. Whitby is nothing, you should live in Gateshead to see what mayhem a Council can do due to sheer incompetence.

They created a cycle lane by changing a busy short stretch of dual carriage way to single lane. This caused a choke point and traffic took a different route just before the changed road. This made a reasonably busy roundabout another choke point. After that choke point, traffic is at a crawl due to the ridiculous traffic light system (deliberately done to make drivers fed up and use a Bus over 10 years ago). Now gridlock is normal for most of the day.

What makes it worse, the idiot who is the Leader of Gateshead Council is also the head of a North East Traffic Committee responsible for road and traffic planning for a much bigger area including Newcastle plus North and South Tyneside.

You could not make it up.


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## maureenandtom (Nov 24, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> Found this from 2018 when the restrictions came into place.
> It's full of the usual "Local people"anecdotal claims.
> But the section dealing with boat owners who also have motorhomes, is priceless.
> 
> whitby-introduces-new-rules-campervans-14923275




This was the time Scarborough claimed there were around a thousand complaints about motorhomes in Whitby.   The FoI officer later said that in a three of four year period up to 2018, I'd misunderstood her.  There were actually around a thousand complaints covering all matters.  There were actually only three complaints about motorhomes.  She kindly sent me copies of the three.  One was outside the time limit and the other two seemed to be from the same person.   So, I think, only one complaint.  But, of course, when the council said around a thousand it didn't expect that anyone would ask to see them.  Her email below and the file of complaints she sent me attached.


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## mikejay (Nov 25, 2021)

The thing is in the 1st complaint I can see where he or she is coming from for most points as a user of the fylde coast stop overs I see this behavior regularly.Along with waste water draining all over the carpark. And yes to us its only a bit of water but to others it is sewage and who wants to walk through puddles of it to get in there cars.I am not saying anyone on here does this as I would hope we are all responsible. Things have got a lot worse with covid and everyone doing staycations there are lots more people getting vans and building vans without facilities. I was up at fleetwood in summer a panel van parked next to me while we where out when we got back tables and chairs all out blocking the bay next to us we had to ask them to move to get in our van. We could hear them talking to lots of other people how it was the best thing they had done build a van to get away in. The next morning they left early slinging all there crap and i mean crap in the hedge you could see the toilet paper and poo I never got the reg of the van otherwise I would have reported them . So when the general public see things like this they  tar us with the same brush.

But it is not just people with vans I was once in scarborough near the fish warehouse  on the little pier it was maybe 15yrs ago. And a car parked next to us not a young couple as they got off the driver chucked all his chips and crap on the carpark outside our door. As he drove off I went mental at him luckily other members of the public witnessed him doing this  and also my young lad at the time clear it all up and bin it.

Mike


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## alcam (Nov 25, 2021)

mikejay said:


> The thing is in the 1st complaint I can see where he or she is coming from for most points as a user of the fylde coast stop overs I see this behavior regularly.Along with waste water draining all over the carpark. And yes to us its only a bit of water but to others it is sewage and who wants to walk through puddles of it to get in there cars.I am not saying anyone on here does this as I would hope we are all responsible. Things have got a lot worse with covid and everyone doing staycations there are lots more people getting vans and building vans without facilities. I was up at fleetwood in summer a panel van parked next to me while we where out when we got back tables and chairs all out blocking the bay next to us we had to ask them to move to get in our van. We could hear them talking to lots of other people how it was the best thing they had done build a van to get away in. The next morning they left early slinging all there crap and i mean crap in the hedge you could see the toilet paper and poo I never got the reg of the van otherwise I would have reported them . So when the general public see things like this they  tar us with the same brush.
> 
> But it is not just people with vans I was once in scarborough near the fish warehouse  on the little pier it was maybe 15yrs ago. And a car parked next to us not a young couple as they got off the driver chucked all his chips and crap on the carpark outside our door. As he drove off I went mental at him luckily other members of the public witnessed him doing this  and also my young lad at the time clear it all up and bin it.
> 
> Mike


Probably most , if not all , on here do not dump rubbish etc . Though I did empty my tanks , discretely , yesterday .
Biggest 'crime' I witness is inconsiderate parking 
Fisherrow harbour is a prime example . Parking in front of flats , in turning area etc 
Of course the council dealt with it by erecting height barriers instead of solving the problem but two wrongs etc...


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## Fisherman (Nov 25, 2021)

alcam said:


> Probably most , if not all , on here do not dump rubbish etc . Though I did empty my tanks , discretely , yesterday .
> Biggest 'crime' I witness is inconsiderate parking
> Fisherrow harbour is a prime example . Parking in front of flats , in turning area etc
> Of course the council dealt with it by erecting height barriers instead of solving the problem but two wrongs etc...


I have to admit that I have discretely emptied my grey water, but then I know two CLS who ask you to do so in their hedge. But as you say to some it looks bad, hence why I would only do so when no one’s about, where it’s appropriate, and never on a tarred surface. But you mention fisherrow. Well I agree that parking under the flats was not ideal, but if I lived there I would have been more concerned about the loutish behaviour, rubbish strewn all over the beech and carpark, dogs mess, and loud music till the early hours. We witnessed a terrible mess in the toilets which were vandalised soon after they put the barriers, and had to be closed. Water taps were constantly left running. All they had to do was move us away from that part of the carpark. But if you read the comments from the SNP councillor about us you would know why the barriers were erected. He was much the same as the councillor we were discussing at Lochore in Fife.


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## trevskoda (Nov 25, 2021)

Antrim lough shore car park has a campsite but you were able to stay down at water edge, now revamped and locking barriers in place.


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## alcam (Nov 25, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> I have to admit that I have discretely emptied my grey water, but then I know two CLS who ask you to do so in their hedge. But as you say to some it looks bad, hence why I would only do so when no one’s about, where it’s appropriate, and never on a tarred surface. But you mention fisherrow. Well I agree that parking under the flats was not ideal, but if I lived there I would have been more concerned about the loutish behaviour, rubbish strewn all over the beech and carpark, dogs mess, and loud music till the early hours. We witnessed a terrible mess in the toilets which were vandalised soon after they put the barriers, and had to be closed. Water taps were constantly left running. All they had to do was move us away from that part of the carpark. But if you read the comments from the SNP councillor about us you would know why the barriers were erected. He was much the same as the councillor we were discussing at Lochore in Fife.


No argument there . All the 'crimes' you list were happening before barriers went up as well . Yet nothing was done about it . Guy who was supposed to clean toilets just didn't . Same marks were there every day .
Yes the situation was not well handled from our point of view but councils , big organisations etc do tend to take the easy option .
Again my point stands re inconsiderate parking .
Possibly those who park inconsiderately are a bit messy in other ways ?


----------



## Fisherman (Nov 25, 2021)

alcam said:


> No argument there . All the 'crimes' you list were happening before barriers went up as well . Yet nothing was done about it . Guy who was supposed to clean toilets just didn't . Same marks were there every day .
> Yes the situation was not well handled from our point of view but councils , big organisations etc do tend to take the easy option .
> Again my point stands re inconsiderate parking .
> Possibly those who park inconsiderately are a bit messy in other ways ?


They will still be happening, as I said the toilets had to be closed due to vandalism after the barriers were erected.
But they dealt with the main problem, US


----------



## maureenandtom (Nov 25, 2021)

mikejay said:


> The thing is in the 1st complaint I can see where he or she is coming from for most points as a user of the fylde coast stop overs I see this behavior regularly.Along with waste water draining all over the carpark. And yes to us its only a bit of water but to others it is sewage and who wants to walk through puddles of it to get in there cars.I am not saying anyone on here does this as I would hope we are all responsible. Things have got a lot worse with covid and everyone doing staycations there are lots more people getting vans and building vans without facilities. I was up at fleetwood in summer a panel van parked next to me while we where out when we got back tables and chairs all out blocking the bay next to us we had to ask them to move to get in our van. We could hear them talking to lots of other people how it was the best thing they had done build a van to get away in. The next morning they left early slinging all there crap and i mean crap in the hedge you could see the toilet paper and poo I never got the reg of the van otherwise I would have reported them . So when the general public see things like this they  tar us with the same brush.
> 
> But it is not just people with vans I was once in scarborough near the fish warehouse  on the little pier it was maybe 15yrs ago. And a car parked next to us not a young couple as they got off the driver chucked all his chips and crap on the carpark outside our door. As he drove off I went mental at him luckily other members of the public witnessed him doing this  and also my young lad at the time clear it all up and bin it.
> 
> Mike




And yet ...

In an over four year period from 1st July 2014 to 30th August 2018 there was only one complaint listed in council records.   

It seems we're more concerned about us than the public (in Whitby) is.  Your points are valid but not seemingly a matter of concern to Whitby residents.


----------



## alcam (Nov 25, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> They will still be happening, as I said the toilets had to be closed due to vandalism after the barriers were erected.
> But they dealt with the main problem, US


I'm not so bothered about general bad behaviour . Purely because I can do heehaw about it . It happens . 
Much more concerned about bad behaviour of motorhomers .
Unfortunately it happens too


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## Fisherman (Nov 25, 2021)

alcam said:


> I'm not so bothered about general bad behaviour . Purely because I can do heehaw about it . It happens .
> Much more concerned about bad behaviour of motorhomers .
> Unfortunately it happens too


We were far from the worse behaved, yet we are the only ones banned. Easy targets for lazy councillors.


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## alcam (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> *We were far from the worse behaved*, yet we are the only ones banned. Easy targets for lazy councillors.


Didn't say we were . You do seem to miss the point quite a lot


----------



## st3v3 (Nov 26, 2021)

Yorkshire motorhome owners' desperate plea to save seaside 'ghost town'
					

Motorhome users can't understand why councils are allegedly refusing to open car parks to them in off-peak seasons




					www.examinerlive.co.uk


----------



## Fisherman (Nov 26, 2021)

alcam said:


> Didn't say we were . You do seem to miss the point quite a lot


And I didn’t state you said or thought otherwise, I was merely making what I regard as a salient point. Not inferring in any way that we differed on that issue.
As for myself missing many points, well you are welcome to your opinion.
I am well aware of poor behaviour within our fraternity, I have both witnessed and alluded to it many times on here.

What happened at Fisherrow has been repeated all over the country.
I and others on here feel that we alone are “dealt with” whilst worse offenders are free to return and continue with their poor behaviour. I find that both annoying and unjust, and feel there is relevance within this issue. However I am also sadly aware that the reasons that we are sometimes unfairly dealt with have nothing to do with justice, and everything to do with a bias towards us through envy, ignorance, and a media that are hell bent on portraying us in a poor light. Whitby appears to be a prime example. Just my opinion, for what it’s worth.


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## Jo001 (Nov 26, 2021)

st3v3 said:


> Yorkshire motorhome owners' desperate plea to save seaside 'ghost town'
> 
> 
> Motorhome users can't understand why councils are allegedly refusing to open car parks to them in off-peak seasons
> ...


Wow - the vitriolic comments aren't exactly welcoming. I accept they are just from a couple of people, but even so ...


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## Fisherman (Nov 26, 2021)

Jo001 said:


> Wow - the vitriolic comments aren't exactly welcoming. I accept they are just from a couple of people, but even so ...


You can taste the envy and smell the ignorance in these posts.
This is why we cannot use carparks that we have paid for.
Nothing to do with anecdotal evidence of misdemeanours, and everything to do with sheer ignorance and envy of the very worse kind.
Note you will see the word TRAVELLERS therein lies another issue, based on sheer ignorance towards us.

*Praetor22 HRS AGO
An even better way to boost trade is for these wealthy motor homers to stay in hotels or B and Bs instead of clogging up roads with their oversized polluting vehicles and how does the council control the other undesirable type of travellers if they let them park overnight in car parks. There are alternatives namely the private parks but of course they are not as conveniently located for the night time attractions which is what this is really all about


the harbinger of doom15 HRS AGO
The ten bob millionaires ARE NOT WELCOME . tough init*


----------



## RichardHelen262 (Nov 26, 2021)

Do these idiots really think that banning motorhomes will keep the traveler's out of the car parks, as we all know if they decide to take over a car park then they will.
And why on earth would these brainless morons think that we would want to drive our own self contained accommodation to Whitby so that we can stay in a b+b


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## Fisherman (Nov 26, 2021)

RichardHelen262 said:


> Do these idiots really think that banning motorhomes will keep the traveler's out of the car parks, as we all know if they decide to take over a car park then they will.
> And why on earth would these brainless morons think that we would want to drive our own self contained accommodation to Whitby so that we can stay in a b+b


The third word in your post sums them up perfectly, but sadly they may be councillors, who knows. They also compared us with travellers.


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## barryd (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> You can taste the envy and smell the ignorance in these posts.
> This is why we cannot use carparks that we have paid for.
> Nothing to do with anecdotal evidence of misdemeanours, and everything to do with sheer ignorance and envy of the very worse kind.
> Note you will see the word TRAVELLERS therein lies another issue, based on sheer ignorance towards us.
> ...



You missed this one.

_*Praetor*_*10 HRS AGO
Reply to Praetor - view message
Yet to see an electric one. They are mostly large diesel engines with low mpg so doubly polluting more like a bus without the saving grace of carrying lots of passengers. They should certainly be taxed far more heavily like a commercial vehicle and along with caravans only allowed to move at night so as not to impede other traffic and not be parked in residential areas.*

Envy and just bitterness mixed in with the the attitude (by many not all) that someone is getting something for free that you cant have I expect with a little bit of NIMBYism thrown in for good measure. 

This only seems to happen here in the UK.  We are either rich freeloaders who want a free holiday or one step removed from troublesome Travellers to some (many probably). 

Probably why motorhoming has been so successfully catered for in France.  Motorhomes have respect there, its something to be admired and aspired to own and they realise the added value they can bring. The French are not as territorial either.  They will build an Aire right in the middle of town, around houses etc and nobody bats and eyelid.


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## Fisherman (Nov 26, 2021)

barryd said:


> You missed this one.
> 
> _*Praetor*_*10 HRS AGO
> Reply to Praetor - view message
> ...


And we are respected in other countries Barry, but if the French motorhome owners were treated the way we are, do you reckon they would sit back and accept it. I very much doubt it, what’s going on in this country is nothing short of malice and envy.
I mean read these posts, and the posts from Lochore. It beggars belief, not only that these comments are made, but the tolerance we show when they are made.


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## barryd (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> And we are respected in other countries Barry, but if the French motorhome owners were treated the way we are, do you reckon they would sit back and accept it. I very much doubt it, what’s going on in this country is nothing short of malice and envy.
> I mean read these posts, and the posts from Lochore. It beggars belief, not only that these comments are made, but the tolerance we show when they are made.



But the French have always had much more freedom to roam than we have.  We just love passing legislation here. A Frenchmans attitude will be that its his right to park where he likes pretty much unless its expressly banned whereas here we have been hounded so much and restricted so much we just assume we cant park anywhere unless told we can do so and we should be extremely grateful for that.  Unless however we can change the publics perception we are always going to be met with comments like those which inevitably are reflected in the attitudes of those who make the rules.  Those commenters are voters after all.

Part of me wants to say Feck em!  Just park where you want and ignore the NIMBYs but part of me thinks Feck em, I Cant wait to get back to mainland Europe.


----------



## Fisherman (Nov 26, 2021)

barryd said:


> But the French have always had much more freedom to roam than we have.  We just love passing legislation here. A Frenchmans attitude will be that its his right to park where he likes pretty much unless its expressly banned whereas here we have been hounded so much and restricted so much we just assume we cant park anywhere unless told we can do so and we should be extremely grateful for that.  Unless however we can change the publics perception we are always going to be met with comments like those which inevitably are reflected in the attitudes of those who make the rules.  Those commenters are voters after all.
> 
> Part of me wants to say Feck em!  Just park where you want and ignore the NIMBYs but part of me thinks Feck em, I Cant wait to get back to mainland Europe.


Barry we had just spent a week wild camping (or whatever you wish to call it) on Arran. A great week in the summer, ok it was busier than normal due to what's been going on, but none the less a great week. We wanted to take a look at the new facilities at Auchrannie so we wandered in.
Well we met this guy with a brand new Burstner motorhome, he was new to the game. Well he starts to tell us that the locals don't like wild camping thats why he was there. I told him we have just had a great week wild camping in much nicer locations than this. Explained that "the locals"apart from a few have always welcomed us here, and even provide us with free chemical waste points and freshwater. (He knew nothing about this) I showed him photos of seals and the wonderful locations. But I reckon I was wasting my time. And thats so sad that he thinks the way he does. He will miss so much only going to campsites.


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## Fisherman (Nov 26, 2021)

barryd said:


> You missed this one.
> 
> _*Praetor*_*10 HRS AGO
> Reply to Praetor - view message
> ...


Sorry Barry I did not miss it, I just felt sick reading it and did not post it. I was going to reply, but decided I would be wasting my time


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## groyne (Nov 26, 2021)

Just been to Whitby fishing, wheather got so bad we had to abort. My mate wanted some Kippers for tea, so we stopped at Fortunes on the way back to the car.
 The bloke in the shop looked like he'd just been smacked in the face with a wet Herring. He could hardly be ar$ed to string two words together when serving us, let alone a smile for two old silly b*ggers who looked like half drowned rats.
He was so miserable even my mate commented, and he's almost one of them.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 26, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> Sorry Barry I did not miss it, I just felt sick reading it and did not post it. I was going to reply, but decided I would be wasting my time


I doubt any come from Whitby residents as when you read through other comments some of the posters have left they are of the sort that feel the need to comment and leave either poison or racist comments on any subject.

But now we know who is actually dumping shit. Literally.









						Outrage as Asda delivery driver caught 'doing a poo' outside house
					

The appalled customer spotted the driver outside of their home




					www.examinerlive.co.uk


----------



## Fisherman (Nov 26, 2021)

Fazerloz said:


> I doubt any come from Whitby residents as when you read through other comments some of the posters have left they are of the sort that feel the need to comment and leave either poison or racist comments on any subject.
> 
> But now we know who is actually dumping shit. Literally.
> 
> ...


I am not in anyway trying to excuse what happened here.
But it might just serve to underline how poorly drivers are treated.
I have heard of them being refused access to toilets when making deliveries.


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## yorkslass (Nov 27, 2021)

maureenandtom said:


> And yet ...
> 
> In an over four year period from 1st July 2014 to 30th August 2018 there was only one complaint listed in council records.
> 
> It seems we're more concerned about us than the public (in Whitby) is.  Your points are valid but not seemingly a matter of concern to Whitby residents.


Unfortunately, these so called problems, become highlighted in the local press, then some locals think its OK to start a vendetta against us. Never had a problem in Whitby until the press took it upon themselves to print untruths,  then had horns blaring hammering on the van side and eggs being thrown.


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## colinm (Nov 27, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> I have to admit that I have discretely emptied my grey water, but then I know two CLS who ask you to do so in their hedge. But as you say to some it looks bad, hence why I would only do so when no one’s about, where it’s appropriate, and never on a tarred surface.


As an example.
We often arrive home with a part full grey tank and cassette, I drive up our cart track or onto field to empty the tank, and empty the cassette in our outside toilet. one time I was dumping the tank and FiL thought I was emptying the toilet.


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## Norfolk NewBoy (Nov 28, 2021)

I had to take SiL to task for emptying his grey water on the side of the road on the north Norfolk coast at October half term. He's had his camper for over 2y and couldn't see a problem. When I told him that people think it is urine, his only response was "they're welcome to inspect".

I guess that he will keep on doing it! 

Gordon


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## Obanboy666 (Nov 29, 2021)

Just watched BBC look north after the national news and they had an article stating how Whitby town and local businesses are struggling with lack of visitors and Wellcome to Whitby an independent organisation are trying to come up with initiatives to generate business and visitors.
I emailed them regarding how motorhomes are virtually banned and they quickly replied stating he understood my frustration and to direct my thoughts to Scarborough borough or Whitby town council.
I will do as he has suggested, I know many members have not, that it will do any good im sad to say.


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## GMJ (Nov 29, 2021)

Perhaps in  understanding your frustration they could also direct their thoughts to the councils too if they are serious about attracting custom...


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## Fisherman (Nov 29, 2021)

Let’s not forget here that what’s going on in Whitby is no more than a microcosm of what’s going on all over the U.K. Whitby is no different from many areas whos attitudes towards us is anything  but subtle, or justified in any way.
I hope that the council in Whitby, wise up and clean up their act instead of making up falsehoods with regards to the level of complaints made against us.
The fact is the vast majority of local residents don’t hate us, some of them are us. Whitby has a population of 13,049 and as Tom pointed out they had two complaints about us. But even if they had 100 complaints that would mean that 12,949  would have made no complaint. Hardly grounds for banning us.


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## colinm (Nov 29, 2021)

A post on OAL t'other day.


> An enjoyable 70th birthday treat, ended up a nightmare.
> I'd taken a friend, who has mobility and health issues to Whitby for a meal and to buy a gift, using my motorhome for transport. We parked legally in an unrestricted area for a couple of hours. We set off for Teesside at 4.30, it was already dark. On the A171 Moor Road I suddenly became aware of something flapping under my windscreen wiper blade. It was impossible to safely stop the vehicle and retrieve, what looked like a yellow parking fine. It wasn't till we made a detour into Guisborough High Street, we discovered a Fake Penalty Charge Notice and intimidating note. The fear of it blowing off the vehicle, along with it distracting us and wondering what crime I'd committed, caused both of us a great deal of stress. I've previously suffered 2 heart attacks. My friend suffers from Atrial Fibrillation and has previously suffered a Stroke. As you can imagine, the afternoon birthday treat was ruined because of it. Neither of us could sleep that night, it could have caused us to have an accident, or take ill. I've reported the matter to North Yorkshire County Council. I hope no-one else is put through the stress and upset that we've endured.


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## alcam (Nov 29, 2021)

Drove off without seeing a parking ticket on the windscreen (fake or otherwise) ?
Day was ruined , couldn't sleep that night !


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## GeoffL (Nov 29, 2021)

alcam said:


> Drove off without seeing a parking ticket on the windscreen (fake or otherwise) ?
> Day was ruined , couldn't sleep that night !


IMO, it's reasonably possible for the driver not to initially notice that 'parking ticket'. On my moho, the dash obscures the bottom few inches of the windscreen and the wipers park below the top of the bonnet and are so hidden. Also, both wipers park on the passenger side. Thus, I suspect that a small flyer placed under either windscreen wiper might not be easy to spot in the dark. That said, it wouldn't stop me getting a night's sleep.

It would be good if an image of that 'parking ticket' were available and traceable back to the morons who placed it. FWIW, this might come under the umbrella of "interfering with a vehicle's safety equipment", which is illegal in Australia but, apparently, not in the UK.


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## Robmac (Nov 29, 2021)

GeoffL said:


> It would be good if an image of that 'parking ticket' were available and traceable back to the morons who placed it. FWIW, this might come under the umbrella of "interfering with a vehicle's safety equipment", which is illegal in Australia but, apparently, not in the UK.



My dashcam has a motion sensor so will start recording if anybody approaches the front of the van.

If I was issued with a fake, I wouldn't hesitate to report it and splash it all over the internet.


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## colinm (Nov 29, 2021)

Apparently it was reported (and confirmed to be a fake ticket), and now it will be spreading on t'internet.


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## Fisherman (Nov 30, 2021)

I once drove off with an advertising sheet on my windscreen but low down on passenger side. I never noticed it until I was on the M8 heading for Glasgow. It was a distraction and don’t think this should be allowed. But this only serves to show how some think of us, and when people are spoon fed rubbish in their newspapers and elsewhere in the media, who can blame them. If I was not part of our fraternity, I may well think likewise.


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## GeoffL (Nov 30, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> I once drove off with an advertising sheet on my windscreen but low down on passenger side. I never noticed it until I was on the M8 heading for Glasgow. It was a distraction and don’t think this should be allowed. But this only serves to show how some think of us, and when people are spoon fed rubbish in their newspapers and elsewhere in the media, who can blame them. If I was not part of our fraternity, I may well think likewise.


It's long been said that you only need 3.5% of a population to actively protest to change policy. The silent majority either don't care about the issue or disagree with the activists but keep their mouths shut from fear of ridicule (at best) or even, as has happened more and more recently, having their lives destroyed. There is an issue here in that spoon-feeding the local populace with rubbish and backing it up with false claims (such as 2 complaints are a thousand, 75 out of 10,000 are 97%, etc.) actually works. So while the vast majority of residents of Whitby and Scarborough probably either welcome our visits or are at worst neutral, the anti-motorhome activists appear to be winning -- probably in part because at least one of them is a councillor...


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## Fisherman (Nov 30, 2021)

GeoffL said:


> It's long been said that you only need 3.5% of a population to actively protest to change policy. The silent majority either don't care about the issue or disagree with the activists but keep their mouths shut from fear of ridicule (at best) or even, as has happened more and more recently, having their lives destroyed. There is an issue here in that spoon-feeding the local populace with rubbish and backing it up with false claims (such as 2 complaints are a thousand, 75 out of 10,000 are 97%, etc.) actually works. So while the vast majority of residents of Whitby and Scarborough probably either welcome our visits or are at worst neutral, the anti-motorhome activists appear to be winning -- probably in part because at least one of them is a councillor...


And sadly also with acceptance by us also Geoff. The same applies to us, the majority of our fraternity see such situations as a fait accompli, and sadly to some extent they have a point.


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## campervanannie (Nov 30, 2021)

Having read most of this thread it seems it’s not that we are not welcome as motorhome owners that we are taking the decision to not darken the doorsteps of these towns again but the fact that we cannot pitch up our vans on a prime seafront location and stay for days sometimes weeks on end, there is plenty of daytime parking in both Whitby and Scarborough you just cannot stay overnight and a lot of that is to do with the behaviour of a certain type of motorhomer.
I visit both places often and never have a problem parking up and then I leave before the banned time and overnight elsewhere that’s the beauty of having a motorhome and it’s no hardship to drive a couple of miles to park for the night.


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## GreggBear (Nov 30, 2021)

Appreciate what you're saying Annie, & I agree with you about people who want to park up on the seafront for days at a time, but that surely doesn't mean we should be banned from carparks too. That's what they're for, parking in. Would make sense to ban mohos from the seafront, fully behind that idea, but I still don't see why we need to be banned from parking in carparks. I would even agree that  anyone who sets up camp in carparks, or stays for days on end should be moved on, but where's the harm in parking overnight in a single bay in a carpark? As long as no chairs etc are deployed, & you are respectful of your surroundings & even pay the parking charge, I don't see why we are treated as lepers....


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## Fisherman (Nov 30, 2021)

GreggBear said:


> Appreciate what you're saying Annie, & I agree with you about people who want to park up on the seafront for days at a time, but that surely doesn't mean we should be banned from carparks too. That's what they're for, parking in. Would make sense to ban mohos from the seafront, fully behind that idea, but I still don't see why we need to be banned from parking in carparks. I would even agree that  anyone who sets up camp in carparks, or stays for days on end should be moved on, but where's the harm in parking overnight in a single bay in a carpark? As long as no chairs etc are deployed, & you are respectful of your surroundings & even pay the parking charge, I don't see why we are treated as lepers....


Yes I agree, also I don’t reckon spending the day somewhere, spending money in their local shops, then having to move somewhere for the night were you probably will spend nothing is best. From what I saw on my visit, Whitby had plenty of empty car parking spaces during the day. As for those who reckon spending days there is ok, why not restrict parking to one or two nights, within stiff penalties for those who breech this condition.


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## GreggBear (Nov 30, 2021)

As you say, why after spending your money in Whitby, should another area have to put you up for no return? Exactly what Whitby council are whining about....


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## campervanannie (Nov 30, 2021)

GreggBear said:


> Appreciate what you're saying Annie, & I agree with you about people who want to park up on the seafront for days at a time, but that surely doesn't mean we should be banned from carparks too. That's what they're for, parking in. Would make sense to ban mohos from the seafront, fully behind that idea, but I still don't see why we need to be banned from parking in carparks. I would even agree that  anyone who sets up camp in carparks, or stays for days on end should be moved on, but where's the harm in parking overnight in a single bay in a carpark? As long as no chairs etc are deployed, & you are respectful of your surroundings & even pay the parking charge, I don't see why we are treated as lepers....


The problem is some will always bend the rules look at sea life centre Scarborough for years you have been allowed to park overnight with an unwritten agreement that you left through the day so their customers could park and it was great for years then the don’t give a shit element took over with tables chairs and bbqs out blocking the promenade and staying for days and days until eventually the sea life centre and council said enough is enough. The minute a council gives the ok to stay overnight a certain type take over and abuse it I don’t know what the answer is but I will continue to go to the east coast park up during the day and move off at night.


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## 2cv (Dec 1, 2021)

The problem that I see is that a small minority will just do whatever suits them and will park up in one place for possibly weeks. This inevitably will cause resentment in some local residents, wether it be in an urban or rural location and in turn this leads to bans for all. I only wish that rather than blanket bans a time limit for stays could be enforced, backed by sensible penalties for those breaking such limits. Unfortunately this rarely if ever seems to happen l


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## alcam (Dec 1, 2021)

campervanannie said:


> Having read most of this thread it seems it’s not that we are not welcome as motorhome owners that we are taking the decision to not darken the doorsteps of these towns again but the fact that we cannot pitch up our vans on a prime seafront location and stay for days sometimes weeks on end, there is plenty of daytime parking in both Whitby and Scarborough you just cannot stay overnight and a lot of that is to do with the behaviour of a certain type of motorhomer.
> I visit both places often and never have a problem parking up and then I leave before the banned time and overnight elsewhere that’s the beauty of having a motorhome and it’s no hardship to drive a couple of miles to park for the night.


What if you are steaming ?


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## campervanannie (Dec 1, 2021)

alcam said:


> What if you are steaming ?


Then stay put and pay the fine.


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## Fazerloz (Dec 1, 2021)

2cv said:


> And The problem that I see is that a small minority will just do whatever suits them and will park up in one place for possibly weeks. This inevitably will cause resentment in some local residents, wether it be in an urban or rural location and in turn this leads to bans for all. I only wish that rather than blanket bans a time limit for stays could be enforced, backed by sensible penalties for those breaking such limits. Unfortunately this rarely if ever seems to happen l


Whilst that works for the mh comunity. All that would happen is one van just replacing another van as one pulls out and the general public would see no difference, just a place still full of vans.  Nothing alters until you have an abundance of parking and the vans get diluted over numerous spots. Then you would have the stupid herding  factor to contend with.


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## Fisherman (Dec 1, 2021)

We here this all the time there are selfish idiots amongst us, but they are a minority, and they can and should be dealt with. What about CCTV, most car parks in towns and city’s already have CCTV. The way I see this is really straightforward. You limit the amount of vans that can spend the night, and where they can spend the night.  You limit the length of stay. And if anyone breeches these rules you hammer them with large fines. I can see such enforcement’s being difficult in more rural locations, but not in places like Whitby. Why should decent people be punished for the actions of a few.
None of this is difficult in todays world  if you really want to offer parking for a limited amount of vans, for a limited time. But they can and are used as reasons for carte Blanche bans by people who simply don’t  want us there in the first place.


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## campervanannie (Dec 1, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> We here this all the time there are selfish idiots amongst us, but they are a minority, and they can and should be dealt with. What about CCTV, most car parks in towns and city’s already have CCTV. The way I see this is really straightforward. You limit the amount of vans that can spend the night, and where they can spend the night.  You limit the length of stay. And if anyone breeches these rules you hammer them with large fines. I can see such enforcement’s being difficult in more rural locations, but not in places like Whitby. Why should decent people be punished for the actions of a few.
> None of this is difficult in todays world  if you really want to offer parking for a limited amount of vans, for a limited time. But they can and are used as reasons for carte Blanche bans by people who simply don’t  want us there in the first place.


At st Annes they limit the vans and time that you can stay I think it’s 8/10 vans there have been complaints that some nights throughout the summer there has been up to 30+ vans and staying longer than the allotted time and the regular visitors know what time the TW comes round so I suspect a lot don’t bother paying and leave before he tips up.


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## Fisherman (Dec 1, 2021)

campervanannie said:


> At st Annes they limit the vans and time that you can stay I think it’s 8/10 vans there have been complaints that some nights throughout the summer there has been up to 30+ vans and staying longer than the allotted time and the regular visitors know what time the TW comes round so I suspect a lot don’t bother paying and leave before he tips up.


Well Annie, fine them, and fine them heavily.
Obviously a TRO would have to be put in place, and the required personal to facilitate such penalties being handed out. I would love to see these people being fined three figure sums for breaching reasonable well laid out requirements. I witnessed such behaviour up here also this year in Elie. But sadly Fife Council have no TRO in place. We really need to start punishing people who behave like pratts, and welcoming the better behaved with open arms. I have always been a firm believer in stick and carrot Annie.


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## alcam (Dec 1, 2021)

campervanannie said:


> Then stay put and pay the fine.


My point being I , and I'm sure many others , like to visit restaurants and pubs when staying somewhere . Moving off in the evening makes that impossible


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## Fisherman (Dec 1, 2021)

alcam said:


> My point being I , and I'm sure many others , like to visit restaurants and pubs when staying somewhere . Moving off in the evening makes that impossible


You know this makes perfect logical sense.
The current situation in many places throughout the U.K. is counterproductive in terms of helping local economies. You are in effect being prevented from enjoying a nice meal in a local establishment with a glass of two of your favourite tipple, thus helping the local economy. And in the case of Scotland with much lower drink driving limits this has even more credence. As I said before welcome those who wish to abide by reasonable well laid out rules, and hammer those who think that carparks are just free campsites.


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## barlicker (Dec 19, 2021)

Just for my own maps could you let me know where these are, cheers.


mistericeman said:


> Plenty of other spots along that coast that ARE happy to have us there....


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