# NEW DVLA Van To Motorcaravan Requirements



## Nesting Zombie (Oct 22, 2019)

Enough said 
You should check out the latest release Requirements from DVLA !.
Windows, Decals, Roof, Awning fittings !
Good luck to anyone with thoughts of re registering You ‘May’ have to cut your roof off !

Look at -
External Permeant features 

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../v1006-motor-caravan-conversion-checklist.pdf

So Semi high tops ain’t going to do either!.
Possibly aimed at combatting sneaking under height barriers in car parks !.


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## harrow (Oct 22, 2019)

Life is becoming very difficult for diy converters


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 22, 2019)

Hey Harrow,

Yeah it certainly has, I think the ‘Decals’ & Awning fittings Requirements that Although are easy to put on are just a plane CRAZY Requirement !.
Ok so fit a second window in one side you’r body work, Yeah fair enough. But I think the ‘Hight top Roof’ Might be a problem to some.


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## Fazerloz (Oct 22, 2019)

If it isn't registered as a motor caravan at least it should make the plethora of No Motorcaravan signs that have sprung up irrelevant to the owners.


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## witzend (Oct 22, 2019)

Never thought about this before is there any great advantages for a pvc to be registered as a motorhome


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## izwozral (Oct 22, 2019)

Jeez, this country is getting more and more like North Korea, what next, specific clothing to drive a vehicle? The high roof is just ridiculous, I am a short arse so wouldn't need a high roof. What do they mean by awning bars to either side, what is an awning bar? What constitutes 'caravan style graphics', is it slashes of colour or can you have scenes as some do?
The days of stealth campers are numbered.
It isn't climate change we should be fearful of, it's governmental control which year by year is eroding ever more personal freedoms.

Stop the world, I want to get off!


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## caledonia (Oct 22, 2019)

I think this might have something to do with the huge number of people deciding to live in vans instead of houses.


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## alcam (Oct 22, 2019)

izwozral said:


> Jeez, this country is getting more and more like North Korea, what next, specific clothing to drive a vehicle? The high roof is just ridiculous, I am a short arse so wouldn't need a high roof. What do they mean by awning bars to both sides, what is an awning bar? What constitutes 'caravan style graphics', is it slashes of colour or can you have scenes as some do?
> The days of stealth campers are numbered.
> It isn't climate change we should be fearful of, it's governmental control which year by year is eroding ever more personal freedoms.
> 
> Stop the world, I want to get off!


Some totally absurd rules . I suspect if a legal minded owner challenged these regs they would win hands down


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## QFour (Oct 22, 2019)

Think you need to re-read what they have said. You don’t have to have everything. You do need the 2 side windows though and a combination of the others. As for vehicle types they have covered everything apart from a Bus. As usual it is all very ambiguous and they can reject anything if they don’t like the look of it.

Two side windows is simple, sliding door, roof rack with an awning and a couple of graphics.

We spotted a French MH on the way to Spain. Totally white Luton Box van with what looked like a house aluminium door in the side. Oh and a small ladder to climb up.


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## Markd (Oct 22, 2019)

I think that if you read the DVLA website then you will realise that they want all of the items on the tick list.
Indeed if the didn't want them all then they'd say 'x of' - in my view these are pretty sensible one needs light and height.
Graphics and an awning are a bit cosmetic but cheap enough.
It's far far from ambiguous - 5 simple clear criteria all of which you can demonstrate with photos.


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## QFour (Oct 22, 2019)

All it says is tick the ones you have ..

Like to see a high top Luton Van or a high top MPV.


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## Markd (Oct 22, 2019)

I'd  say a Luton van has a high top roof and would tick it - without 5 ticks they won't even look at the photos! 
When they do then they'll assess what they see.
Unless you add permanent high roof to an mpv it won't get approved.
This thread is running on motorhome.com and there's a guy with a very nicely converted transit van who's been rejected 3 times - unfortunately because it's standard height even if he adds the extra windows and awning rail (whatever that is) I don't think it'll pass.
Height is definitely an issue but I really do expect anything with enough height to walk around in to pass the high top criteria.


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## Caz (Oct 22, 2019)

witzend said:


> Never thought about this before is there any great advantages for a pvc to be registered as a motorhome



Higher speed limits, cheaper ferry fares and possibly easier to get (cheaper?) insurance.


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## Markd (Oct 22, 2019)

Interesting tha DVLA are saying that if the V5 description makes no difference to speed limits.
Not sure whether they are saying that you can go faster if the inside complies?


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## GreggBear (Oct 22, 2019)

Why do these agencies seem to just make things harder for us all the time? As long as your conversion is of a reasonable standard & not compromising any safety aspects, why the hell should it be a problem getting reclassified? What harm are we trying to do that everyone needs protecting from? Bloody jobsworths justifying their own positions, that's all I can see. Then to say you can still use it as a camper even without reclassification is ridiculous, why bother at all then? Why do we need to be stopped from doing what we want as long as we hurt no-one else? Could this all be our punishment for voting for Brexit??


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## Markd (Oct 22, 2019)

We're not being stopped from what we want to do.
It's just that if we want to take advantage of the benefits the government offers we have to meet their criteria.
So if we want a stealth van that we can't stand up in and doesn't have windows we can do it.
We don't even have to meet the internal criteria either.
The choice is ours.
As someone said what do you call a camper without a toilet and shower? 
Answer - a van!


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## trevskoda (Oct 22, 2019)

Just talked to some ins guys here,if its not motorcaravan in log book then its com van and must be ins as such prof of running a biz,so folk in NI are stuffed unless a english co will cover as SDP, but it will still have to do a more stringent PSV test as thats what Log Book says.
Thank heavens mine has many years reg as camper.


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## harrow (Oct 23, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Just talked to some ins guys here,if its not motorcaravan in log book then its com van and must be ins as such prof of running a biz,so folk in NI are stuffed unless a english co will cover as SDP, but it will still have to do a more stringent PSV test as thats what Log Book says.
> Thank heavens mine has many years reg as camper.


This is the biggest problem for home converters the *insurance companies will say its not a van but its also not a camper.*


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## mark61 (Oct 23, 2019)

Never had a problem getting insurance. Either as a van that is in the process of being converted, or as a camper that's still registered as a van.


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## trevskoda (Oct 23, 2019)

mark61 said:


> Never had a problem getting insurance. Either as a van that is in the process of being converted, or as a camper that's still registered as a van.


I could only get at adrian Flux,now AIB no bother.


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## mark61 (Oct 23, 2019)

Aviva have given consistently good rates for vans, when converted I ring around, currently with Adrian Flux.
Highest quote so far for van in my postcode was £7000   , guess they weren't interested. Neither was I


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## Moped (Oct 23, 2019)

So what are vans with lift up roofs classified as? They only seem to be interested in high top roofs. Surely this could hit all those VW camper van converters and similar who fit lift up roofs and not high roofs. And what about factory VW campers with lift up roofs?


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## REC (Oct 23, 2019)

Can't understand why roof lights are not mentioned since the reason for two windows is for light and air. We got to the stage where we have all but the awning and did contemplate fixing a pipe to roof for photo....but have given up on the whole thing. The full guidance actually says that speed limits and insurance should be no problem if fitted as a motorhome internally. But I think they  have to test this yet. Been trying to work out if it will have an impact on road tax but am completely confused by the gov website! Insurance due Dec so will see what the situation is then.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 23, 2019)

Yeah Good Point REC reference the Roof Lights’ that would make more sense than Side windows as they would offer permanent ventilation as well .
(Or at least mine does)


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## Markd (Oct 23, 2019)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Yeah Good Point REC reference the Roof Lights’ that would make more sense than Side windows as they would offer permanent ventilation as well .
> (Or at least mine does)


I guess that the rationale is that roof lights aren't as easily seen on the move.


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## Deleted member 79302 (Oct 23, 2019)

izwozral said:


> Jeez, this country is getting more and more like North Korea, what next, specific clothing to drive a vehicle? The high roof is just ridiculous, I am a short arse so wouldn't need a high roof. What do they mean by awning bars to either side, what is an awning bar? What constitutes 'caravan style graphics', is it slashes of colour or can you have scenes as some do?
> The days of stealth campers are numbered.
> It isn't climate change we should be fearful of, it's governmental control which year by year is eroding ever more personal freedoms.
> 
> Stop the world, I want to get off!


do two windows on one side let in more light than one window on each side and surely if light is an issue the side with windows should be south facing at all times


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## Deleted member 56601 (Oct 23, 2019)

I reckon they added the 'light' phrase so they can reject vans that have fitted very small windows to comply with the new 'regs'.


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## Deleted member 79302 (Oct 23, 2019)

Edina said:


> I reckon they added the 'light' phrase so they can reject vans that have fitted very small windows to comply with the new 'regs'.


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## Deleted member 79302 (Oct 23, 2019)

sorted I’ll get one of these fae Amazon


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## martinmartin (Oct 23, 2019)

Personally I wouldn't want to travel around or live in a campervan with no side windows or a low roof or a sliding door and by that l mean a van sliding door, you know the ones that piss you off. A palm tree graphic never hurt anyone but l the awning is a step too far .


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## GreggBear (Oct 23, 2019)

Agreed. A lot of the requirements ( high roof, side Windows etc) were on my list anyway when I chose my donor vehicle, a 5.5tonne Iveco bus. Never factored an awning into the build tho, but thought a wind out canopy could be handy. Wonder if one of those would count?...


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## martinmartin (Oct 23, 2019)

GreggBear said:


> Agreed. A lot of the requirements ( high roof, side Windows etc) were on my list anyway when I chose my donor vehicle, a 5.5tonne Iveco bus. Never factored an awning into the build tho, but thought a wind out canopy could be handy. Wonder if one of those would count?...


Call me thick but to me an awning is a canopy.


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## Markd (Oct 23, 2019)

There's a lot of over-thinking going on.
For whatever reason (police concern about ringing vehicles at the time) DVLA are now applying the 'look like a camper' criterion for body type change introduced several years ago.
They've finally published the key factors they consider to be essential for external recognition - which let's face it aren't unreasonable.
1. You need to be able to stand in it or it's not habitable and whilst they won't accept a pop-top no-one complaining here has said that's what they installed.
2. There should be natural light to the living area and they say 2 windows behind the cab doors on one side one which will serve the whole living area - that's not a lot to ask. Are there any camper vans at first registration that don't have 2 side windows on one side?
3. A separate access to living space has always been a requirement.
4. An 'awning rail' is something a very high proportion of camper vans have and isn't a big deal to screw on for the photos (but second hand and resell if not wanted?)
5. Camper van graphics - again at first registration a very high proportion of camper vans have them.


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## alcam (Oct 23, 2019)

MaxusMicky said:


> do two windows on one side let in more light than one window on each side and surely if light is an issue the side with windows should be south facing at all times


Excellent point .
So if the two windows are on the passenger side you just have to , permanently , travel in a westerly direction ?
Easterly , of course , if said windows were on the driver's side  .
This would of course change , yet again , in the case of a left hand drive vehicle .
All seems pretty straightforward


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## Markd (Oct 23, 2019)

You've forgotten the suggestion about the windows being on the backside in which case which case we'll need both alternative driving positions so the driver can use windows on the front doors whilst travelling sideways.


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## Markd (Oct 24, 2019)

We've been discussing speed limits in light of DVLA comments. 
I found this 








						Van speed limits and pickup speed limits explained
					

Info on UK speed limits for vans, also covering pickups, dual-purpose vehicles and car-derived vans - on Parkers Vans and Pickups



					www.parkers.co.uk
				




It looks as if Vans with Windows are allowed car speed limits if under 2.04T unladen.
So converted crew cabs probably met the criteria anyway and a converted panel van that gets Van with Windows reclassification could easily qualify.
You will need to check actual unladen weight of course rather than rely on a factory plate if you want to convince plod.

So some good news for smaller low-line conversions that don't meet hab height rules.


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## trevskoda (Oct 24, 2019)

5. Camper van graphics - again at first registration a very high proportion of camper vans have them.
[/QUOTE]
Graphics were the first thing i removed,hate them as they look like a dicked up ice cream van.


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## martinmartin (Oct 24, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> 5. Camper van graphics - again at first registration a very high proportion of camper vans have them.


Graphics were the first thing i removed,hate them as they look like a dicked up ice cream van.
[/QUOTE]
Did you remove the melody box as well.


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## AMcQ46 (Oct 24, 2019)

Markd said:


> There's a lot of over-thinking going on.
> For whatever reason (police concern about ringing vehicles at the time) DVLA are now applying the 'look like a camper' criterion for body type change introduced several years ago.
> They've finally published the key factors they consider to be essential for external recognition - which let's face it aren't unreasonable.
> 1. You need to be able to stand in it or it's not habitable and whilst they won't accept a pop-top no-one complaining here has said that's what they installed.
> ...



my van is now going to be excluded for both the fact it is a poptop and the fact it only has 1 window on each side behind the cab [despite the fact they are full size, as is the rear window and there is a further window in the poptop]............  
plus side is it has graphics which say "Autocampers" and "dayVan", and it has an Awning rail.

My problem is when that when I bough the van I knew the only problem with getting it changed to camper on the V5 was that it didn't have the fixed 2 burner hob .... and I could resolve that guite easily............ Now I have 2 big structural problems that I cant fix.... and this is going to be the same with a lot of traditional camper vans on both the VW Transporter and the Transit Custom base.

does changing it to a "van with Windows" help move it from the commercial vehicle status from an insurance point of view?


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## alcam (Oct 24, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> 5. Camper van graphics - again at first registration a very high proportion of camper vans have them.


Graphics were the first thing i removed,hate them as they look like a dicked up ice cream van.
[/QUOTE]
Couldn't agree more cheap and nasty .
Removed them , painted van a smart grey colour .
My van looks really good thought about sending pictures to manufacturers .
After reading all these regulations/guidelines started to wonder if they are finished like this because of DVLA . 
I'm assuming probably not ?


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## groyne (Oct 24, 2019)

My van sailed through the reclassification last year. But despite the fact that it is light and airey inside, (two big roof lights and an extractor vent),







and has more than the minimum fixtures and fittings, if I submitted it this year, it would probably be rejected. 

Why, because it has only one window either side, no awning and no graphics.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 24, 2019)

Yeah like so many things it’s all about ‘Dates’ isn’t it !. What Qualified last yea, is different to This year & will probably change Next year ...

I’m sure they just think some of these changes up to justify jobs


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## izwozral (Oct 24, 2019)

Markd said:


> There's a lot of over-thinking going on.
> For whatever reason (police concern about ringing vehicles at the time) DVLA are now applying the 'look like a camper' criterion for body type change introduced several years ago.
> They've finally published the key factors they consider to be essential for external recognition - which let's face it aren't unreasonable.
> 1. *You need to be able to stand in it or it's not habitable* and whilst they won't accept a pop-top no-one complaining here has said that's what they installed.
> ...


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## trevskoda (Oct 24, 2019)

Fact is they dont want you to wild camp,go to a camp site put out a large awning,deck chairs ,gas barby,wind breaker,dog bowl etc and pay a fortune for the privalage  of doing so.
No more hiding in side streets or car parks you naughty lot,if you do then you will be shiped to auz land in a four masted scooner.


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## Fazerloz (Oct 24, 2019)

Are the so called professional builders getting around this problem as many use second hand vans to convert.


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## trevskoda (Oct 24, 2019)

Fazerloz said:


> Are the so called professional builders getting around this problem as many use second hand vans to convert.


I would think a lot half way through a conversion are going to be very angry and out money.
Cannot see how they got away with any changes without a term of notafication,dare i say an illegal move which should be challenged.


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## Fazerloz (Oct 24, 2019)

Has any of the disgruntled builders gone down this route.
If you cannot resolve your complaint with the *DVLA* you can send your case to the Parliamentary & Health *Ombudsman*, however, you cannot send your case directly to the *Ombudsman*, but, have to go via your local MP who can forward your case to the *Ombudsman*.


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## mark61 (Oct 24, 2019)

Never been bothered what mine has been registered as. Might try and change it now though, the new regs are nonsense.


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## GreggBear (Oct 24, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Fact is they dont want you to wild camp,go to a camp site put out a large awning,deck chairs ,gas barby,wind breaker,dog bowl etc and pay a fortune for the privalage  of doing so.
> No more hiding in side streets or car parks you naughty lot,if you do then you will be shiped to auz land in a four masted scooner.


Shipped to Oz eh?, Can I take my bus?....


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## GreggBear (Oct 24, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Fact is they dont want you to wild camp,go to a camp site put out a large awning,deck chairs ,gas barby,wind breaker,dog bowl etc and pay a fortune for the privalage  of doing so.
> No more hiding in side streets or car parks you naughty lot,if you do then you will be shiped to auz land in a four masted scooner.


Shipped to Oz eh?, Can I take my bus?...


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 24, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> Fact is they dont want you to wild camp,go to a camp site put out a large awning,deck chairs ,gas barby,wind breaker,dog bowl etc and pay a fortune for the privalage  of doing so.
> No more hiding in side streets or car parks you naughty lot,if you do then you will be shiped to auz land in a four masted scooner.


But will their be Head room & Two Windows in my Cabin ?


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## daygoboy (Oct 24, 2019)

I haven't read the new regs or standards to be met, but the thing that I wouldn't
be surprised of being overlooked is means of escape in event of fire.
Believe me it can be the most important feature to consider when converting,
particularly long larger vans. Can even be used for rescue access.
I guess application of graphics and awnings may be considered of greater 
significance, who knows how works the mind of the civil servant lol.

Some years ago on a campsite I witnessed  a Merc. LWB 508d catch fire in the
hab area, I knew that the solo campermother had gone walkabout and left a baby
in the van, we were lucky to get that sleeping sprog  in the back out alive, the kitchen
sited near the front had caught alight, hab access door  was a side hung type immediately
to rear of the passenger door, and just a couple of very small inaccessible side wall windows
otherwise just steel body. The baby effectively was in a fire cul de sac.

There is a rule if not a regulation applied in Germany that there must be 2 means of
escape,  windows of a certain minimum size? can suffice.
Have you checked how you would get out should the stove, woodburner or gas heater
go up in flames, might only be few short steps to the door but matchbox construction
M/homes take little time to flashover while your kipping.


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## GreggBear (Oct 24, 2019)

Left the standard doors in my bus, side door near front & double doors at rear in the bedroom with emergency handles still fitted, just pull handle & both doors swing open even when locked.


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## Markd (Oct 24, 2019)

Fazerloz said:


> Are the so called professional builders getting around this problem as many use second hand vans to convert.


Interesting point - I expect they cottoned on to the more rigourous regime pretty fast.
They may even have sweet talked those in their current pipeline through on the basis of ok last month why not now?
Presumably they have stopped pop-top conversion now.


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## Markd (Oct 24, 2019)

groyne said:


> My van sailed through the reclassification last year. But despite the fact that it is light and airey inside, (two big roof lights and an extractor vent),
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice van and as you say light enough over the bed with the roof light.
At least all you would have been able to add the missing features easily enough.


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## Asterix (Oct 24, 2019)

I've not tried to have my horsebox classified as a motorhome and looking at the new rules it would probably require a lot of changes,I've deliberately tried to keep the exterior looking like a horsebox,I'll keep it as an hgv.


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## Markd (Oct 24, 2019)

Asterix said:


> I've not tried to have my horsebox classified as a motorhome and looking at the new rules it would probably require a lot of changes,I've deliberately tried to keep the exterior looking like a horsebox,I'll keep it as an hgv.


Probably makes sense - I'm not sure that there any major benefits once you are Private HGV tax class.
As you are still same body type as first reg then insurance company can't quibble.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 24, 2019)

Hey ya Asterix 
(Haven’t seen you about recently, must have been out of sync with your visits to site !)
Yeah The Nest is PHGV, so I don’t feel guilty parking in HGV stopovers, & Roat Tax is £165 a year (or there abouts)


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## Asterix (Oct 24, 2019)

Markd said:


> Probably makes sense - I'm not sure that there any major benefits once you are Private HGV.
> As you are still same body type as first reg then insurance company can't quibble.



I couldn't see any benefit to changing but mainly don't want to stand out in the countryside and most people don't give a horsebox a second glance.


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## Asterix (Oct 24, 2019)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Hey ya Asterix
> (Haven’t seen you about recently, must have been out of sync with your visits to site !)
> Yeah The Nest is PHGV, so I don’t feel guilty parking in HGV stopovers, & Roat Tax is £165 a year (or there abouts)



I'm usually a bit quiet over the summer months, work takes most of my time so I pop in for a nosy but don't hang about...that will all change shortly,you won't be able to get rid of me!


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## daygoboy (Oct 24, 2019)

Asterix said:


> I couldn't see any benefit to changing but mainly don't want to stand out in the countryside and most people don't give a horsebox a second glance.



A saddle for the dog should make it even more convincing.


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## Polar Bear (Oct 25, 2019)

Has anyone considered that with all newly converted motorhomes having to be high tops the restrictions on parking up regarding 'hight barriers' are assisting the local authorities to get their way?


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2019)

Polar Bear said:


> Has anyone considered that with all newly converted motorhomes having to be high tops the restrictions on parking up regarding 'hight barriers' are assisting the local authorities to get their way?


Yep,,,,
Read the last cpl of sentence in OP


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## Nabsim (Oct 25, 2019)

Polar Bear said:


> Has anyone considered that with all newly converted motorhomes having to be high tops the restrictions on parking up regarding 'hight barriers' are assisting the local authorities to get their way?


A lot of folks will still just build what they want in any van and either not reclassify or go for van with windows. It is only really likely to have a bearing on resale value isn’t it?


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## alcam (Oct 25, 2019)

Polar Bear said:


> Has anyone considered that with all newly converted motorhomes having to be high tops the restrictions on parking up regarding 'hight barriers' are assisting the local authorities to get their way?


 Maybe bit conspiratorial ? Though nothing would surprise me .
I do doubt anyone has joined the dots that much . I would suggest government regulations were drawn up by someone using a colouring-in book


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2019)

Nabsim said:


> A lot of folks will still just build what they want in any van and either not reclassify or go for van with windows. It is only really likely to have a bearing on resale value isn’t it?


& Resale ‘Description’ I guess 
The Trading standards are going to be busy


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## Markd (Oct 25, 2019)

Nabsim said:


> A lot of folks will still just build what they want in any van and either not reclassify or go for van with windows. It is only really likely to have a bearing on resale value isn’t it?


I'd reckon resale value is most likely to be influenced by condition and layout.
From what we've learnt the most likely reason for being Van with Windows will be a lack of height as other conditions are fairly cheap to achieve. 
If buyers are happy with that will they be savvy enough to check the body type on V5 or even worry anyway?


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## spigot (Oct 25, 2019)

I see no problem with those requirements apart from the awning rail. I don’t like awnings, they can’t be used in most wilding locations. 
Fixing an awning rail for a photo & then removing it seems a messy business.
Decals are easy, cut some shapes from Fablon or similar, take photo, then peel them off.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2019)

Magnetic Decals & Cable ties for Awning rail / Bar !.


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## Markd (Oct 25, 2019)

Interesting about Trading Standards.
DVLA seem to suggest that if internal mods meet criteria it can still be used as a motorcaravan.
My gut reaction is that what you see is what you get.


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## Nabsim (Oct 25, 2019)

spigot said:


> I see no problem with those requirements apart from the awning rail. I don’t like awnings, they can’t be used in most wilding locations.
> Fixing an awning rail for a photo & then removing it seems a messy business.
> Decals are easy, cut some shapes from Fablon or similar, take photo, then peel them off.


Would the J channel type awning rails comply do you think?


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## Markd (Oct 25, 2019)

What is an awning rail?
Are talking of the slot an awning slides into as on a caravan or an actual roll out awning?
I suspect the latter.

If a converter wants reclassification they'll fit an awning.
If they don't want an awning they won't.


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## Nabsim (Oct 25, 2019)

Markd said:


> Interesting about Trading Standards.
> DVLA seem to suggest that if internal mods meet criteria it can still be used as a motorcaravan.
> My gut reaction is that what you see is what you get.


May need to watch the wording in adverts but if private sale would it matter anyway?


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## daygoboy (Oct 25, 2019)

Certain Merc. vans have a high roof version which gives 6'-3" clear headroom before linings,
the low roof version gives 5'-10" clear headroom before lining. Would the low roof option
being sufficiently high enough to qualify as a "high roof" or would only the high option be
acceptable.....semantics.
As a PHGV seat belts may not be fitted or required, but when changing to PHGV Motorcaravan
designation seat belts are a requirement, at least was the case for my van, but as always, there's 
hardly a need to add the caveat 'that things might have recently changed'.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 25, 2019)

It’s like most things I suppose Nab,
‘Byer beware’ !
I’m guessing that it won’t make any difference at all, I’m sure that 10s of Thousands of Campers & Motorhomes have changed hands AS such, But on the Registration doc it’s either Van derived car Or Motorcaravan !.


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## Markd (Oct 25, 2019)

Nesting Zombie said:


> Magnetic Decals & Cable ties for Awning rail / Bar !.


Might be a business opportunity in hiring out magnetic decals


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## Markd (Oct 25, 2019)

Ref #74
I'll bet DVLA are expecting hab area to be obviously higher than top of cab door.
When sending photos including one of a man standing inside might be sensible if external photos don't clearly demonstrate "high-top"


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## spigot (Oct 25, 2019)

Markd said:


> What is an awning rail?
> Are talking of the slot an awning slides into as on a caravan or an actual roll out awning?
> I suspect the latter.



On the form it mentions an awning bar, not rails.
That sound like a retractable awning.
Most campers don’t come with an awning as standard, does this mean all commercial converters will have to fit them?
Also, an interesting point, what will manufactured pop tops like the VW Californian have on their logbooks?


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## spigot (Oct 25, 2019)

Markd said:


> Ref #74
> I'll bet DVLA are expecting hab area to be obviously higher than top of cab door.
> When sending photos including one of a man standing inside might be sensible if external photos don't clearly demonstrate "high-top"


 
Have a midget standing inside!


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## mark61 (Oct 25, 2019)

I'm sure the new regulations will be challenged. Too many businesses both small and large providing to a big market the guidelines completely ignore, and that's not even taking DIY into account. It could all be in the terminology. You reregister a van as a Motor Caravan, surely Motor Caravan has to include both what are generally considered Camper Vans and Motorhomes.


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## Markd (Oct 25, 2019)

Good point Spigot 're Awning Bar.
You're quite right - as I suggested it's a roll out they're looking for.


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## GreggBear (Oct 25, 2019)

Markd said:


> Ref #74
> I'll bet DVLA are expecting hab area to be obviously higher than top of cab door.
> When sending photos including one of a man standing inside might be sensible if external photos don't clearly demonstrate "high-top"


Good idea. I have a mate who's only 5ft 2ins tall, available for hire for photoshoots....


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## Markd (Oct 25, 2019)

In another thread someone posted a video review of a smallish motorhome with the reviewer wearing a top declaring him to be 6'3" tall.
Whilst a bit cramped in area the van was high enough.


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## Floydster (Oct 25, 2019)

Markd said:


> In another thread someone posted a video review of a smallish motorhome with the reviewer wearing a top declaring him to be 6'3" tall.
> Whilst a bit cramped in area the van was high enough.



That photo is reversed, he's really only 3'6"


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## izwozral (Oct 25, 2019)

Nabsim said:


> A lot of folks will still just build what they want in any van and either not reclassify or go for van with windows. It is only really likely to have a bearing on resale value isn’t it?



Could be a problem with insurance, a van is seen as business use, a campervan for pleasure.
I had an Astravan with full Irmscher kit , it looked the dogs bollox and that was the only reason I had it, it was my posing everyday vehicle and not used for business but I had the devils own job to find an insurer, they all insisted it must be for business use no matter how much I stressed it wasn't.
Eventually found an insurer who insured me for pleasure use - or did they? It seemed expensive compared to my car insurance even though the van was much cheaper and older.


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## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2019)

I think anyone who is vert challenged could have them for discrimination.
Reminds me of monty python ,he looks up to me but i look down to him.


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## Markd (Oct 25, 2019)

I suspect the secret to getting insurance for Van with Windows on the mainland is to use a broker to whom you can explain what you have and how complies with motorcaravan internal rules.
That way he can search out sympathetic underwriters.


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## delicagirl (Oct 25, 2019)

i met a french campervan chap about 3 weeks ago and we were talking about this.  He was outlining what the french authorities are doing and it is much much worse than DVLA. Neither of us knew if this "regulatory change for specs for campers" has come from Europe or just the French government.  He has read of many many French campers who had to dismantle their entire new conversion (from a panel van) in order to comply with new layout regulations; wiring regs; height regs and all sorts of other regs....  if this is a europe-wide set of regs...  it will only get worse.....


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## GreggBear (Oct 25, 2019)

delicagirl said:


> i met a french campervan chap about 3 weeks ago and we were talking about this.  He was outlining what the french authorities are doing and it is much much worse than DVLA. Neither of us knew if this "regulatory change for specs for campers" has come from Europe or just the French government.  He has read of many many French campers who had to dismantle their entire new conversion (from a panel van) in order to comply with new layout regulations; wiring regs; height regs and all sorts of other regs....  if this is a europe-wide set of regs...  it will only get worse.....


Yet another reason to be out....


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## alcam (Oct 25, 2019)

delicagirl said:


> i met a french campervan chap about 3 weeks ago and we were talking about this.  He was outlining what the french authorities are doing and it is much much worse than DVLA. Neither of us knew if this "regulatory change for specs for campers" has come from Europe or just the French government.  He has read of many many French campers who had to dismantle their entire new conversion (from a panel van) in order to comply with new layout regulations; wiring regs; height regs and all sorts of other regs....  if this is a europe-wide set of regs...  it will only get worse.....


If it was EU rules they would apply in UK surely ?


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## daygoboy (Oct 25, 2019)

delicagirl said:


> i met a french campervan chap about 3 weeks ago and we were talking about this.  He was outlining what the french authorities are doing and it is much much worse than DVLA. Neither of us knew if this "regulatory change for specs for campers" has come from Europe or just the French government.  He has read of many many French campers who had to dismantle their entire new conversion (from a panel van) in order to comply with new layout regulations; wiring regs; height regs and all sorts of other regs....  if this is a europe-wide set of regs...  it will only get worse.....



Perhaps these were converters well aware of impending legislation, but chose to ignore the fact but
went ahead regardless with their non compliant conversions?
But I can't imagine a retrospective applying to vans converted and 'registered/recorded'  prior to the effective cut off date whenever that might have been. Could anyone imagine a Frenchman being forced to dismantle a perfectly legitimately complying van at the time of conversion! I reckon somehow a gilet jaune style backlash would have been the likely response!


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## delicagirl (Oct 25, 2019)

just out of interest  i insure my "proper" campervan with AIB and they have it registered as a private car.  i have mentioned this every year when i renew with them and Darren says its fine......    has anyone else had this ?


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## daygoboy (Oct 25, 2019)

delicagirl said:


> just out of interest  i insure my "proper" campervan with AIB and they have it registered as a private car.  i have mentioned this every year when i renew with them and Darren says its fine......    has anyone else had this ?
> [/QUOTE
> 
> If you require reassurance, why not get AIB to email or write that they have
> ...


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## Caz (Oct 25, 2019)

I have been asked a couple of times when selling "is it registered as a motorcaravan" (both times were manufacturer conversions at new), so I guess it will make vans harder to sell if they are "vans with windows" instead.


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## harrow (Oct 25, 2019)

Caz said:


> I have been asked a couple of times when selling "is it registered as a motorcaravan" (both times were manufacturer conversions at new), so I guess it will make vans harder to sell if they are "vans with windows" instead.


If its a van with windows what will the insurers do when there is a claim when they find beds, fridges and gas bottles ?


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## Markd (Oct 25, 2019)

If any vehicle is modified then you'll have to list everything before you insure it.


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## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2019)

And what the feck do us british ulster folk do when we can only insure and test as in log book,all other vans are psv and com insurance,joe blogs cannot drive it.


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## harrow (Oct 25, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> And what the feck do us british ulster folk do when we can only insure and test as in log book,all other vans are psv and com insurance,joe blogs cannot drive it.


Insurance companies are a nightmare


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## alcam (Oct 25, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> And what the feck do us british ulster folk do when we can only insure and test as in log book,all other vans are psv and com insurance,joe blogs cannot drive it.


Why not ask Arlene ?


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## trevskoda (Oct 25, 2019)

harrow said:


> Insurance companies are a nightmare


I and never mind the tw-ts that think these things up.


alcam said:


> Why not ask Arlene ?


Your having a larf,that lot never done a hard days work in there lives.


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## alcam (Oct 25, 2019)

trevskoda said:


> I and never mind the tw-ts that think these things up.
> 
> Your having a larf,that lot never done a hard days work in there lives.


Arlene is hard work . Imagine taking a burst pay packet home to her !


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## Moped (Oct 26, 2019)

The DVLA have a lower standard requirement for recognition as a motor caravan. Only if you require the body type to be changed on the documents do you require the permanent external features. So you can still have a vehicle that has been converted for use as a motor caravan with a body type of panel van. Or am I reading this wrong?

To quote the DVLA web page:-

“For a vehicle to be recognised as being converted to a motor caravan it must meet all 4 categories shown below. For DVLA to change the body type, the vehicle must have the external permanent features described in the DVLA guidance for converting a vehicle into a motor caravan.”

“DVLA is required to record vehicle details for road safety and law enforcement. The body type information held on the vehicle record must describe what a vehicle looks like in traffic. This description, as well as other distinguishing features, allows the police and other enforcement agencies to easily identify vehicles.
The body type does not affect the insurance category of the vehicle, or have any effect on speed limits or other legislative requirements. It is only used for establishing vehicle appearance and identification.
It is important to remember that even if the vehicle’s body type is not changed to ‘motor caravan’, the vehicle can still be used for this purpose as long as the keeper is satisfied the converted vehicle meets the required internal features for motor caravans.”








						Internal features for motor caravans
					






					www.gov.uk


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## Markd (Oct 26, 2019)

Correct - So an owner should be able to insure the vehicle as a motorcaravan if functionally it meets the internal criteria.
The one difference now is that the separate door to hab area is an "external" feature.


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## trevskoda (Oct 26, 2019)

Moped said:


> The DVLA have a lower standard requirement for recognition as a motor caravan. Only if you require the body type to be changed on the documents do you require the permanent external features. So you can still have a vehicle that has been converted for use as a motor caravan with a body type of panel van. Or am I reading this wrong?
> 
> To quote the DVLA web page:-
> 
> ...


Yes it does,if com van then you pay com insurance if you are a trader,if motorcaravan then the insurance is much cheaper and you do not have to prove com use to get cover.
Van ins here for me would be £700 plus where as motorcaravan ins is just over £200, plus strict a psv test which also costs more.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2019)

Moped said:


> The DVLA have a lower standard requirement for recognition as a motor caravan. Only if you require the body type to be changed on the documents do you require the permanent external features. So you can still have a vehicle that has been converted for use as a motor caravan with a body type of panel van. Or am I reading this wrong?
> 
> To quote the DVLA web page:-
> 
> ...


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## Nabsim (Oct 26, 2019)

Don’t think that would hold up if you have told them it is fitted out to live in NZ. The guidance specifically says you can do that but doesn’t it say it would be classified an with windows? Could be a problem with a stealth van that hasn’t been notified of changes maybe


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2019)

Nabsim said:


> Don’t think that would hold up if you have told them it is fitted out to live in NZ. The guidance specifically says you can do that but doesn’t it say it would be classified an with windows? Could be a problem with a stealth van that hasn’t been notified of changes maybe


Ahhhh, Maybe Matey,
But in this day & age I think that if there’s a get out option for either insurance NOT to pay out, OR a Legal option for whomever to extract money from you in someway then they will take it .
I’ve always ‘Tried’ to Shuffle the Legal side of the line, & if on the times I haven’t I’ve been prepared to pay the price. What Grates me is when you try SO SO Blinking hard to meet whatever requirements you need to to achieve whatever you aims for, It can kick you in the arse because you haven’t Ticked a certain box that invalidates your payment or investment!.
I can’t wait for ‘Z’ Day


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## DocMartin (Oct 26, 2019)

delicagirl said:


> just out of interest  i insure my "proper" campervan with AIB and they have it registered as a private car.  i have mentioned this every year when i renew with them and Darren says its fine......    has anyone else had this ?


My Hijet Romahome is insured through AIB with Markerstudy. On their paperwork the Description of vehicle states Hijet Romahome. It's registered as a Pick up.
I am insured to drive it as a pick up, I always check that when I renew as I occasionally have rubbish to dump etc.


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## Nesting Zombie (Oct 26, 2019)

I’m exactly the same company through AIB as well, & found Both absolutely brilliant to date.
The Nest is referred to as a ‘Peugeot C - Autotrail Chieftain, Motorhome or Caravanett OR Car’ throughout the Paper work so take your pick on that one ,

Have you got the Demountable back on yours?


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## DocMartin (Oct 26, 2019)

Nesting Zombie said:


> I’m exactly the same company through AIB as well, & found Both absolutely brilliant to date.
> The Nest is referred to as a ‘Peugeot C - Autotrail Chieftain, Motorhome or Caravanett OR Car’ throughout the Paper work so take your pick on that one ,
> 
> Have you got the Demountable back on yours?


No, I have some furniture to move and I am intending to do some paintwork.


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