# Returning from abroad with out of date MOT



## Tookey

Hi,

On returning from abroad with an out of date MOT do you have any leeway with getting your new MOT done without the first motorway smart camera sending you a fine?


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## jann

No!,
You shouldn't let it get out of date, your insurance will be invalid


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## mark61

For people that go traveling for more than a year, not letting it get out of date is not an option.
Book van for MOT near home, at least you would have meet some of the requirements.


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## mistericeman

jann said:


> No!,
> your insurance will be invalid



Not strictly accurate.... AFAIK 
Your insurer has a legal duty to maintain 3rd party cover though no mot will likely mean the loss of fully comp AND your insurance company chasing you through the courts for their losses.


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## Tookey

jann said:


> No!,
> You shouldn't let it get out of date, your insurance will be invalid


Are you sure?

Copied from a site:



You must have valid vehicle insurance. This can often be arranged on the Internet or by phone if you are not in the UK at the time.
Road Fund Licence and MOT. You will have neither of these. The best option is to take the vehicle for a prearranged MOT with a suitable garage for the date the vehicle is taken out of the port and ideally one which can make repairs in the event of a failure. You are permitted to drive to a prearranged MOT test without an existing MOT or current Road Fund Licence. Curiously there is no limitation on the distance to be driven.

Note that there may be a waiting list for MOTs. At Government testing stations run by VOSA this may be as long as 6 weeks. If your camper van is Class IV make sure that the MOT station has facilities to accept its weight. Class IV facilities are normally only for vehicles up to 3.5 tons weight

All MOT stations have a computer link to the DVLA database. As your vehicle is being re-imported you may find that it does not appear on the database. In this case the tester should issue a certificate using the VIN (or chassis) no. instead of the registration number


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## in h

If your MOT has expired (and it missed the free Covid-19 extension) the way to drive it legally on your return is to book it in for an MOT test near home. Preferably just the other side of home, so you can stop off on the way to the pre-booked MOT test.


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## Tookey

I think it can be done legally, its the door mat full of smart camera fines I don't want to have to deal with, can you imagine the paperwork


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## mistericeman

Tookey said:


> Hi,
> 
> On returning from abroad with an out of date MOT do you have any leeway with getting your new MOT done without the first motorway smart camera sending you a fine?



Do you not need to apply for permanent export if you are taking a vehicle out of the UK for 12 months


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## Snapster

When did your MOT expire? This may help, it’s from the Gov website 
*Coronavirus (COVID-19): changes to MOTs*
There are some changes to MOT tests because of coronavirus (COVID-19). How this affects you depends on when your MOT is due to expire.

*30 March to 31 July*
Your MOT will be automatically extended for 6 months because of coronavirus.

*Example*Your vehicle’s MOT was due to expire on 3 April 2020.
This will automatically be extended to 3 October 2020. You will need to get your MOT by this date.


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## dreamhome

Very helpful many thanks


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## harrow

Tookey said:


> Hi,
> 
> On returning from abroad with an out of date MOT do you have any leeway with getting your new MOT done without the first motorway smart camera sending you a fine?


No


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## Tookey

Apologies all, I feel I must have phrased my question poorly. I know I can do it I was just asking is there a way to get around the smart cameras with regards to my first journey from Dover to home. Avoiding all motorways and probably some roads such as the A1 seems ridiculous but I also really dont want to get involved with DVLA/no MOT/Just returned to Uk malarky....nightmare!!

sorry


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## Markd

mark61 said:


> For people that go traveling for more than a year, not letting it get out of date is not an option.
> Book van for MOT near home, at least you would have meet some of the requirements.


You are allowed to travel to a booked MoT without one. Technically the test station can be anywhere so you could drive from lands end to John o Groats (except there no tester there )
Being away for more than 12 months probably gets tricky with insurance?
So if you book a test before you get back into uk for the day or day after (because you will drive direct and leave it there overnight) and are travelling to it you have a defence.
Are the police using ANPR to routinely pick up untested vehicles?
If you know your MoT will run out before returning then get 12 months by testing before you leave.


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## mark61

Markd said:


> You are allowed to travel to a booked MoT without one. Technically the test station can be anywhere so you could drive from lands end to John o Groats (except there no tester there )
> Being away for more than 12 months probably gets tricky with insurance?
> If you know your MoT will run out before returning then get 12 months by testing before you leave.



Thats what I meant. Just before returning to UK, book up MOT near where you live.


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## 2cv

With the current quarantine requirements going directly to a pre booked MOT would not be possible as it would endanger the testers, another thing to consider.


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## witzend

When you decide to come across the channel book your mot at nearest MOT station and hope it's a pass. I'd not like to chance driving home if it was very far. If I know It'll run out while I'm away I get it done before I go you can get it done at anytime you just lose a few months.


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## harrow

Tookey said:


> Apologies all, I feel I must have phrased my question poorly. I know I can do it I was just asking is there a way to get around the smart cameras with regards to my first journey from Dover to home. Avoiding all motorways and probably some roads such as the A1 seems ridiculous but I also really dont want to get involved with DVLA/no MOT/Just returned to Uk malarky....nightmare!!
> 
> sorry



Gaffa tape


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## redhand

Are we actually at that stage where smart cameras pick up such things


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## mark61

Tookey said:


> Apologies all, I feel I must have phrased my question poorly. I know I can do it I was just asking is there a way to get around the smart cameras with regards to my first journey from Dover to home. Avoiding all motorways and probably some roads such as the A1 seems ridiculous but I also really dont want to get involved with DVLA/no MOT/Just returned to Uk malarky....nightmare!!
> 
> sorry



I've got some Libyan numbers plates somewhere, I'll dig them out. 
Got some German ones too, somewhere.


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## RichardHelen262

Just don’t break down as your breakdown cover won’t cover you,
A few years ago I broke down called the  AA they said someone would be with me within the hour, 30 mins later I got a call to say as my van was out of mot it shouldn’t be on the road, so they would no longer be attending to me,
I had totally overlooked the mot it was out by a few days


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## mistericeman

Do you not need to declare vehicle exported if out of UK for 12 months or over ??

Or has it been less and you just overlooked the expiry date?


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## Tookey

redhand said:


> Are we actually at that stage where smart cameras pick up such things


yes


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## wildebus

So what are you officially meant to do if Travelling out the country for more then 12 months?
You have to "export" the vehicle.  But you are not actually moving anywhere to re-register it as you are travelling.  A real no-mans land situation


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## Tookey

mistericeman said:


> Do you not need to declare vehicle exported if out of UK for 12 months or over ??
> 
> Or has it been less and you just overlooked the expiry date?


yes you do have to declare it as exported. The question was about smart cameras, Dover to home (where I would like to MOT) is 300 miles and I suspect using a sensible route would involve passing many smart cameras. As the DVLA cant even decide what a campervan is I don't want to get embroiled in paperwork unnecessarily trying to explain why every camera on the M1 thinks Im a very naughty boy


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## Deleted member 51254

Tookey said:


> Hi,
> 
> On returning from abroad with an out of date MOT do you have any leeway with getting your new MOT done without the first motorway smart camera sending you a fine?


You can take your vehicle for an MOT a month earlier than its due, so the longest MOT you could have would be 13 months. If you haven't got one you must arrange an appointment at a UK test centre before you land and drive straight there on your return. You could get a foreign test, e.g. TUV in Germany, that would demonstrate to your insurance company that vehicle is safe on the 
road


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## mistericeman

Tookey said:


> yes you do have to declare it as exported. The question was about smart cameras, Dover to home (where I would like to MOT) is 300 miles and I suspect using a sensible route would involve passing many smart cameras. As the DVLA cant even decide what a campervan is I don't want to get embroiled in paperwork unnecessarily trying to explain why every camera on the M1 thinks Im a very naughty boy



AFAIK there is no prescribed distance you can travel for MOT.... 

Book it where you like and drive it there ASAP when you land.... 
It's a none endorsable offence so just a fine IF you get caught... 

Obviously bearing in mind the insurance implications if anything goes pear-shaped (same as it would if you were driving to a test round the corner from your house...


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## Tookey

wildebus said:


> So what are you officially meant to do if Travelling out the country for more then 12 months?
> You have to "export" the vehicle.  But you are not actually moving anywhere to re-register it as you are travelling.  A real no-mans land situation


From my limited reading at this point I feel it is simply not worth the hassle of being away over 12 months, I do truly understand the need for a certain level of bureaucracy in life but sometimes it is very frustrating


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## Tookey

hah, my question was about smart cameras!! 

Thanks for all the great feedback though


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## wildebus

davebav50 said:


> You can take your vehicle for an MOT a month earlier than its due, so the longest MOT you could have would be 13 months. If you haven't got one you must arrange an appointment at a UK test centre before you land and drive straight there on your return. You could get a foreign test, e.g. TUV in Germany, that would demonstrate to your insurance company that vehicle is safe on the
> road


You have to get a bit lucky on heading abroad with a 13 month ticket  If you got for an MOT within  1 month of it being due, you get it post-dated so could go away with upto 13 months.  But if you get an MOT with more than a month remaining, you only get 12 months (always thought annoying you didn't get the 13 month ticket if having an early test, but c'est lá vie)

One option if 13 months would be useful and you are planning more than a year ahead is to get an MOT 11 months before you are due to depart the UK, then get a new MOT just before you go - that will give you the 13 months while away.


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## Fazerloz

I would be more bothered over the fact if the MOT has run out you would be driving illegally in Europe as it must have a current MOT and VED.


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## Tookey

wildebus said:


> You have to get a bit lucky on heading abroad with a 13 month ticket  If you got for an MOT within  1 month of it being due, you get it post-dated so could go away with upto 13 months.  But if you get an MOT with more than a month remaining, you only get 12 months (always thought annoying you didn't get the 13 month ticket if having an early test, but c'est lá vie)
> 
> One option if 13 months would be useful and you are planning more than a year ahead is to get an MOT 11 months before you are due to depart the UK, then get a new MOT just before you go - that will give you the 13 months while away.


oooh, I don't quite understand what you mean at the moment tbh but if you are correct that extra month would give me plenty of leeway


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## Fazerloz

Its not likely your van will go unnoticed.


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## mark61

Tookey said:


> oooh, I don't quite understand what you mean at the moment tbh but if you are correct that extra month would give me plenty of leeway



Won't get far in 6.5 months. Need two years away minimum.


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## molly 2

As I understand the vehicle has to be insured  , then you can drive it too and from a pre booked  mot   .it must be pre booked  as evidence  will be needed if you  stopped by the police  or anpr  camara  . An mot test center would give you the information you  need , .last  resort  would be pay for recovery  to home .


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## wildebus

Tookey said:


> oooh, I don't quite understand what you mean at the moment tbh but if you are correct that extra month would give me plenty of leeway


Ok - let's run a scenario .....

Your Delica is MOTed until December 31st 2020.

You plan to be away from June 10th 2022 until July 1st 2023  (so 12 months 20 days)

MOTs would go like this ....
Get your MOT done in December as normal to give you an MOT until 31st 2021
Next time, instead of waiting until December 2021 for an MOT, you get it done early on July 9th 2021 - makes your next MOT due on July 8th 2022
You then get the next MOT done on June 9th 2022 - so just within the one month remaining that will keep the renewal date of July 8th 2023.

You can now head off on the 10th June 2022 and you will be MOTed until July 8th 2023 - and this will also allow you to keep the Road Tax going so you can return to the UK with a valid MOT and current Road Tax, with the only complication being Insurance (which I am sure you have in hand and is a different topic).

The dates I made up above gives you a week leeway for a delayed return.  You might want to adjust to give yourself some leeway before departure in case of work needed for MOT instead?


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## Tezza33

Tookey said:


> hah, my question was about smart cameras!!
> 
> Thanks for all the great feedback though


Drive home along country roads, I am sure you will blend in


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## wildebus

mark61 said:


> Won't get far in 6.5 months. Need two years away minimum.


I guess the ideal option - if you have nice deep pockets - is to buy a brand new vehicle and take that away ...  3 years to go and come back


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## mark61

wildebus said:


> I guess the ideal option - if you have nice deep pockets - is to buy a brand new vehicle and take that away ...  3 years to go and come back



Yes, that's one way, looking at the number of German expedition convertors there must be a market.

Only down sides that initially come to mind, some reckon if a new vehicle goes wrong, you'll never get it fixed. I'm not so convinced myself, you may not get the computer reset, but you'll be on your way one way or another, and 2, you'll have a hugely expensive motor with only third party insurance in some countries, so may not want to let vehicle out of your sight. Guess if pockets are deep enough, thats not a problem either.


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## colinm

There may be two problems in France, or any other EU country you may be in. Firstly if stopped they will want to see a valid MOT, plus will you have leave to stay over 3 months?


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## Tookey

wildebus said:


> Ok - let's run a scenario .....
> 
> Your Delica is MOTed until December 31st 2020.
> 
> You plan to be away from June 10th 2022 until July 1st 2023  (so 12 months 20 days)
> 
> MOTs would go like this ....
> Get your MOT done in December as normal to give you an MOT until 31st 2021
> Next time, instead of waiting until December 2021 for an MOT, you get it done early on July 9th 2021 - makes your next MOT due on July 8th 2022
> You then get the next MOT done on June 9th 2022 - so just within the one month remaining that will keep the renewal date of July 8th 2023.
> 
> You can now head off on the 10th June 2022 and you will be MOTed until July 8th 2023 - and this will also allow you to keep the Road Tax going so you can return to the UK with a valid MOT and current Road Tax, with the only complication being Insurance (which I am sure you have in hand and is a different topic).
> 
> The dates I made up above gives you a week leeway for a delayed return.  You might want to adjust to give yourself some leeway before departure in case of work needed for MOT instead?


I get it now   

Thank you


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## Tookey

mark61 said:


> Yes, that's one way, looking at the number of German expedition convertors there must be a market.
> 
> Only down sides that initially come to mind, some reckon if a new vehicle goes wrong, you'll never get it fixed. I'm not so convinced myself, you may not get the computer reset, but you'll be on your way one way or another, and 2, you'll have a hugely expensive motor with only third party insurance in some countries, so may not want to let vehicle out of your sight. Guess if pockets are deep enough, thats not a problem either.


The problem tends to be modern smart engines get very upset with diesel with a high sulphur content and can even refuse to move. When researching last year modern cats can be a pain in the ass, cant remember why. Modern engines outside of Europe, USA and some parts of Asia can be a real hindrance

Edit* it's the Diesel Particulate Filter that spits its dummy out


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## Tookey

Geeky enough to be interested in sulphur content and modern engines?









						High sulphur fuel and other fuel issues for modern European engines
					

Modern European engines aren't designed for high sulphur fuel. Here are the fuel issues of taking a Euro 5 engine to countries with high sulphur fuel




					www.tuckstruck.net


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## Tookey

colinmd said:


> There may be two problems in France, or any other EU country you may be in. Firstly if stopped they will want to see a valid MOT, plus will you have leave to stay over 3 months?


Unfortunately predicting what us Brits can and can't do in Europe in 2022 is not worth giving thought to presently, but will hopefully have a better idea in a year


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## vindiboy

You can get free text messages reminding you to get a test done. If you use a vehicle without an mot you are at fault all sorts of reasons are put forward such as being out of the Country for a year forgot etc all flannel, get organised and sort your affairs. I had my van MOT last month just phoned the garage and an appointment for the next day, it passed OK, my car is due in November how do I know this? Well the expirrry date is on the last year's mot and the DVLA will text me SIMPLES


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## Tookey

vindiboy said:


> You can get free text messages reminding you to get a test done. If you use a vehicle without an mot you are at fault all sorts of reasons are put forward such as being out of the Country for a year forgot etc all flannel, get organised and sort your affairs. I had my van MOT last month just phoned the garage and an appointment for the next day, it passed OK, my car is due in November how do I know this? Well the expirrry date is on the last year's mot and the DVLA will text me SIMPLES


Sorry, I am missing your point


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## mark61

vindiboy said:


> You can get free text messages reminding you to get a test done. If you use a vehicle without an mot you are at fault all sorts of reasons are put forward such as being out of the Country for a year forgot etc all flannel, get organised and sort your affairs. I had my van MOT last month just phoned the garage and an appointment for the next day, it passed OK, my car is due in November how do I know this? Well the expirrry date is on the last year's mot and the DVLA will text me SIMPLES


 Taking your vehicle out the country for over a year is not necessarily flannel.


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## Snapster

You are really asking about Smart Cameras or ANPR cameras, or avoiding them on your 300 mile trip from Dover.
 So, the first ANPR cameras you will meet on your way out of Dover, will be dotted around the ferry port ( and Eurotunnel if using the tunnel at Folkestone.) Then along the sea front at Dover and up Jubilee hill, or out towards the M20 towards Folkestone and Ashford.
Most of these have been set up to track lorry movements with the upcoming ridiculousness in the new year.
I doubt there is any way to get more than half a mile from Dover Port without being picked up by at least 10 Smart Cameras. 
But, if your mot is delayed due to the relaxations of renewal due to COVID ( as I wrote earlier) you will be fine.
Also, as others have said, if you prebook an MOT test anywhere on your homeward journey, you will be fine. Your insurance will be valid ( if you have it) , or the DVLA wouldn’t let you travel like this. ( but breakdown cover may not be valid)
Of course, travelling around Europe without a valid MOT is an offence and your prebooked journey for an MOT cannot start in mainland Europe.


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## Tookey

Fazerloz said:


> I would be more bothered over the fact if the MOT has run out you would be driving illegally in Europe as it must have a current MOT and VED.


Sorry Faz, I wasnt ignoring your point. As Brussels and Westminster probably have no idea I am presently not giving any consideration to what Brits in vehicles will be eligible to do on the mainland..........we might be filling in visas for 2 weeks in Spain next year  ☹


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## colinm

Tookey said:


> Sorry Faz, I wasnt ignoring your point. As Brussels and Westminster probably have no idea I am presently not giving any consideration to what Brits in vehicles will be eligible to do on the mainland..........we might be filling in visas for 2 weeks in Spain next year  ☹


I think 3months in 6 will be agreed on, much of EU will be happy with that, but little incentive for UK to push for more.


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## Tookey

colinmd said:


> I think 3months in 6 will be agreed on, much of EU will be happy with that, but little incentive for UK to push for more.


Yup, Im gonna miss 'no borders' I thought it was great


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## Tookey

Snapster said:


> You are really asking about Smart Cameras or ANPR cameras, or avoiding them on your 300 mile trip from Dover.
> So, the first ANPR cameras you will meet on your way out of Dover, will be dotted around the ferry port ( and Eurotunnel if using the tunnel at Folkestone.) Then along the sea front at Dover and up Jubilee hill, or out towards the M20 towards Folkestone and Ashford.
> Most of these have been set up to track lorry movements with the upcoming ridiculousness in the new year.
> I doubt there is any way to get more than half a mile from Dover Port without being picked up by at least 10 Smart Cameras.
> But, if your mot is delayed due to the relaxations of renewal due to COVID ( as I wrote earlier) you will be fine.
> Also, as others have said, if you prebook an MOT test anywhere on your homeward journey, you will be fine. Your insurance will be valid ( if you have it) , or the DVLA wouldn’t let you travel like this. ( but breakdown cover may not be valid)
> Of course, travelling around Europe without a valid MOT is an offence and your prebooked journey for an MOT cannot start in mainland Europe.


So even though I can legally return with no MOT, have one booked and be on route to it sounds like I could have mountain of paperwork due to ANPRs......

I suspected this and hoping it could be avoided. 

I don't think the below will work   

Dear DVLA, don't worry about all those clever cameras zapping me, I've got my MOT now it's all sorted just bin the paperwork


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## trevskoda

Tookey said:


> Yup, Im gonna miss 'no borders' I thought it was great


Borders did not seem to bother old Adolf ether.


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## Tookey

trevskoda said:


> Borders did not seem to bother old Adolf ether.


Just had the disturbing thought of Boris leading the British invasion over the channel, his golden locks flopping about in the wind as he shouts "for Queen and Country"


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## mark61

Tookey said:


> So even though I can legally return with no MOT, have one booked and be on route to it sounds like I could have mountain of paperwork due to ANPRs......
> 
> I suspected this and hoping it could be avoided.
> 
> I don't think the below will work
> 
> Dear DVLA, don't worry about all those clever cameras zapping me, I've got my MOT now it's all sorted just bin the paperwork



I wouldn't let any of it put me off an extended trip. Whats a bit of paperwork compared to the memories and experience gained.

If any of the paperwork materialises.


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## RichardHelen262

I don’t think you would get any paperwork, the information would probably get passed on to any police in the area, then if they thought it was worthwhile they would pull you over, then you just tell them it is booked in for an mot, if you can prove this then you will be ok


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## Deleted member 56601

From 'Direct Line' website :-

*Is my car or van insurance valid without an MOT?*
In most cases, as soon as your MOT expires, your insurance will no longer be valid. So if you have an accident, your van won’t be covered by your insurance provider and you’ll have to pay for repairs yourself – or potentially have your van written off. If the accident was your fault, you’ll also have to pay for the damage caused to any other vehicles involved, which could be very expensive. And, because it’s also illegal to drive without valid insurance, if you’re caught, you can face an unlimited fine or even disqualification from driving, plus 6 to 8 penalty points.


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## Wully

You can buy a car today with six months mot left on it and take it for an mot tomorrow you don’t have to stick to any date on an mot you can have your car mot every week if you want it just cancels out the last mot. So mot the week before you leave.


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## Tookey

RichardHelen262 said:


> I don’t think you would get any paperwork, the information would probably get passed on to any police in the area, then if they thought it was worthwhile they would pull you over, then you just tell them it is booked in for an mot, if you can prove this then you will be ok


I think the DVLA would contact me, they definitely use the cameras for catching untaxed cars although it isn't there primary role, as you say that is to assist the police. Hopefully it would just be a letter designed to scare and not forms to fill.


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## Tookey

Deleted


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## Tookey

Edina said:


> From 'Direct Line' website :-
> 
> *Is my car or van insurance valid without an MOT?*
> In most cases, as soon as your MOT expires, your insurance will no longer be valid. So if you have an accident, your van won’t be covered by your insurance provider and you’ll have to pay for repairs yourself – or potentially have your van written off. If the accident was your fault, you’ll also have to pay for the damage caused to any other vehicles involved, which could be very expensive. And, because it’s also illegal to drive without valid insurance, if you’re caught, you can face an unlimited fine or even disqualification from driving, plus 6 to 8 penalty points.


Sorry try again;

I believe you can get insurance to get you to your MOT



			https://www.cuvva.com/car-insurance/temporary/insights/can-you-insure-a-car-without-an-mot


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## wildebus

I think it is Direct Line that also say that Insurance is invalid if the vehicle is not Taxed?

It is concerning that a major insurance broker misleads so badly.


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## Deleted member 56601

wildebus said:


> I think it is Direct Line that also say that Insurance is invalid if the vehicle is not Taxed?
> 
> It is concerning that a major insurance broker misleads so badly.


I thought (probably wrongly) that Direct Line were insurers, not brokers?


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## Wooie1958

I`m not so sure that the smart cameras pick up on the fact that a vehicle has no MOT.

2 years back the brother-in-law used his daughters car whos MOT and VED had run out 7 months earlier in March to do 2 returns trip from London to Blackpool.

Orpington, Kent to be precise so well south of London and he managed it twice and all done in complete innocence  ..................................  allegedly.

Also his daughter had been using it daily in and around Greenwich until she went on an extended holiday in the August.

Apparently the VED reminder went to an old address where she`d previously lived because she didn`t bother changed the registered keepers address when she moved.

This led to the cars MOT running out because the VED reminder also reminded her to get it MOT`d


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## mfw

Probably only the ANPR cameras that will catch you as they are linked to DVLA database


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## Wooie1958

mfw said:


> Probably only the ANPR cameras that will catch you as they are linked to DVLA database



My thoughts exactly, and seeing as there are hardly any Police on the roads now with ANPR equipped vehicles there`s little chance of getting caught.

I live a couple of miles from the Lancashire Constabulary headquarters at Hutton which houses Dog Unit, Mounted Branch, Air Support, Force Control Room, Serious Crime Team, Force Major Investigation Team, Scientific Support and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles ( Drones ).









						Lancashire Constabulary - Our Organisation
					

Our Organisation



					www.lancashire.police.uk
				




I see there is now no link to the Driving School, Vehicles Maintenance & Repair and Underwater Search Unit that used to be there as well       

Understandably the roads around here used to be crawling with Police vehicles and also junior Officers doing their Stop & Search training on our roads and streets but now there is no sign of them apart from the odd one driving to the M6 / M65 / M61 junctions at Bamber Bridge


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## wildebus

Edina said:


> I thought (probably wrongly) that Direct Line were insurers, not brokers?


They are a broker.  their policies are underwritten by a different company.


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## barryd

Tookey said:


> Apologies all, I feel I must have phrased my question poorly. I know I can do it I was just asking is there a way to get around the smart cameras with regards to my first journey from Dover to home. Avoiding all motorways and probably some roads such as the A1 seems ridiculous but I also really dont want to get involved with DVLA/no MOT/Just returned to Uk malarky....nightmare!!
> 
> sorry



Ive done this several times.  We often used to end up staying longer out in Europe than we intended and have driven home with no MOT.  Our testing garage is ooop North 320 miles from Dover so we have used all the major routes and motorways where the cameras are and never got pulled or a fine in the post.  I guess if (and its a big if) its picked up on a camera the fact that there is a valid MOT certificate passed within a day or two probably stops any process of a fine although I suspect its just not picked up in the first place.

On one occasion in Europe the tax ran out also and as the MOT had expired I had no option but to sorn the van as I would have probably received a fine for no tax.  Did the same journey of 320 miles and no fine. Got the van tested straight away and then of course retaxed it once I had a valid MOT.

Dont think you will have any issues.


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## Polar Bear

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q360.htm answers your question.


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## Markd

Good to see what we've been saying for 4 pages confirmed - a handy resource.


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## QFour

Don't see how you can take a MH for an MOT if you are Self Isolating for 14 Days when you get back. You are not supposed to leave the house.


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## mark61

QFour said:


> Don't see how you can take a MH for an MOT if you are Self Isolating for 14 Days when you get back. You are not supposed to leave the house.



Local MOT garage may offer a pick up service.


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## jacquigem

Tookey said:


> Unfortunately predicting what us Brits can and can't do in Europe in 2022 is not worth giving thought to presently, but will hopefully have a better idea in a year


Pretty sure you wont be spending more than 90 days in Schengen countries legally


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## Tookey

jacquigem said:


> Pretty sure you wont be spending more than 90 days in Schengen countries legally


Unfortunately I suspect you are correct, I can only hope 

Hah, it can be so difficult not to be a 'remoaner' sometimes


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## jacquigem

No problem here , just waiting for the promised land to unfold


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## mark61

I think you are going beyond what is  MH related.

Knowing the rules, as I'm sure you do, you know the conversation can't continue. So, you are now baiting.


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## Markd

QFour said:


> Don't see how you can take a MH for an MOT if you are Self Isolating for 14 Days when you get back. You are not supposed to leave the house.


You leave the vehicle at the MoT station and make your own way home.
Public transport is allowed to get to isolation location so even if you don't have a car to collect on way to test station you can use bus or taxi as part of your return home.


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## mfw

With the current work loading on mot stations you probably have to book a couple of weeks in advance anyway


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## Tookey

mfw said:


> With the current work loading on mot stations you probably have to book a couple of weeks in advance anyway


This return to the UK isn't for a long time yet. The trip length should be just under 12 months but my planned return is through Russia and therefore due to the potential of being on the wrong end of Russian bureaucracy I want to have it in my head what the consequences of a late return are. 

Thank you all for your feedback and advice

Great forum, ty


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## mark61

Tookey said:


> This return to the UK isn't for a long time yet. The trip length should be just under 12 months but my planned return is through Russia and therefore due to the potential of being on the wrong end of Russian bureaucracy I want to have it in my head what the consequences of a late return are.
> 
> Thank you all for your feedback and advice
> 
> Great forum, ty


 Come on. Lets have more details of trip.


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## barryd

Tookey said:


> This return to the UK isn't for a long time yet. The trip length should be just under 12 months but my planned return is through Russia and therefore due to the potential of being on the wrong end of Russian bureaucracy I want to have it in my head what the consequences of a late return are.
> 
> Thank you all for your feedback and advice
> 
> Great forum, ty



Sounds like an interesting trip. Whats the plan? Dont forget that thanks to Brexit you will only get 90 days in mainland Europe (EU countries).   I presume you have thought of that as you mention Russia.


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## mark61

barryd said:


> Sounds like an interesting trip. Whats the plan? Dont forget that thanks to Brexit you will only get 90 days in mainland Europe (EU countries).   I presume you have thought of that as you mention Russia.


Won't need 90 days, can get back from Russia in 2 days.


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## jagmanx

Is that with or without the vehicle ?


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## Tookey

mark61 said:


> Come on. Lets have more details of trip.


......I tend to tell people 'east and back', truthfully the aim is Mongolia but due to having to enter Russia twice to achieve this, the visa restrictions/difficulties and deteriorating UK/Russian relations I am trying not to get my heart set on it cos if I cant get East of the Stans I don't want it to feel like a failure. The Gobi is the goal but the encompassing idea though is a year of adventure for us and the boy who will be 4 when we leave and will start school a year late.


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## jagmanx

Mmmn.
Are you a mechanic..What about tyres etc
How many travelling. How long in Mongolia ?
Mongolia or wherever great but there are other options
eg








						Mongolia Holidays 2022/2023 | Mongolia Tours | Mongolia Trips | Exodus
					

Mongolia is known for many things – the Land of Blue skies, the land of Genghis Khan, the Gobi Desert and more.




					www.exodus.co.uk
				




I have travelled with Exodus and they are good.
many similar companies.
My trip to Tibet Lhasa was great sorry no link as yet (Yeti ?)
Just suggest you explore other options !


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## vindiboy

Get an MOT as soon as you  leave the Ferry Port, phone a garage whilst on the crossing, use Google to find a garage  , make an appointment  , stay at Canterbury P N R till you have the MOT and any remedial work you may need to pass the MOT, and then go on your merry way, it really is not too difficult?
  You must have a MOT to be driving in Europe  because your vehicle MUST be road legal whilst in Europe  as it would be in UK, I have been stopped in a roadside check in Spain in the past and all vehicle documents MUST be produced and in order, I was also fined for Wild Camping at Quateira one trip and all Documents were scrutinised at that time too, So if any one sets off for Spain or wherever  with a current MOT  knowing   that it  is going to expire whilst there is rather S???? no amount of Flannel or spin would convince me otherwise ? Tax and Insurance can be done on Line when in Europe but NOT MOT , at one time it was possible to get amoody MOT in Benidorm but unfortunately the people who issued the Moody MOT  went to Jail ,


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## Tookey

jagmanx said:


> Mmmn.
> Are you a mechanic..What about tyres etc
> How many travelling. How long in Mongolia ?
> Mongolia or wherever great but there are other options
> eg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mongolia Holidays 2022/2023 | Mongolia Tours | Mongolia Trips | Exodus
> 
> 
> Mongolia is known for many things – the Land of Blue skies, the land of Genghis Khan, the Gobi Desert and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.exodus.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have travelled with Exodus and they are good.
> many similar companies.
> My trip to Tibet Lhasa was great sorry no link as yet (Yeti ?)
> Just suggest you explore other options !


Following below copied and pasted from Mongol rally (The Adventurist). Most years about 2/3rds of contestants make it in 3-4 weeks and they are from all walks of life. I don't want the challenge of the rally as we are a family with a child and want to enjoy the countries as well as the challenge, but my ethos and that of the rally are the same. I am not a mechanic and only have the space for one spare tyre, I don't have 4x4 experience but do have a 4x4 which the rally contestants don't, I still don't know what navigation system I am going to use but I want to give it a good go and fortunately so does my wife. My engine is larger than 1.2L and we have a gas cooker, kettle and loads of tea and we don't have a red telephone box on the roof of a mini like a pair of previous contestants  

There are other options available as you say..........but this is our chosen one  

MONGOL RALLY rules

*Rule 1: Small and shit*
You can take any car, as long as it’s crap and with an engine of 1.2 litre or less. Ideally under 1 litre. For motorbikes we've generously allowed 125cc, but would prefer it to be a scooter.

You need to drive a small, shit car to make the rally tougher. It's no fun if it's too easy. If you want easy go for a spa weekend. If you want to make it harder, take a small bike.

With a small car or bike, you're more likely to break down so you're more likely to interact with the locals, more likely to get stuck and more likely to have an adventure. The worse the car the greater the adventure. In fact if you find your car is doing better than expected you are probably wise to pour sugar in the petrol tank.*Rule 2: You're on your own*
We could tell you everything you need to know about all the countries, roads and borders between here and Russia to ensure you have a safe, uncomplicated journey. But if it's not dangerous and you aren't lost, you're not on an adventure. That means no backup or support. If you get stuck or in trouble, you need to solve the problem yourself. Any ‘Help! We’re broken down in Tajikistan,’ type phone calls to Rally HQ will be met with a snort of derision and a click of the receiver.


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## mark61

The bloke who converted my current van did the Mongal rally in a  Fiat Punto a few years ago.

Might be worth taking some inner tubes. I know not recommended, but they'll get you out of trouble and to the next town where something more permanent can be sorted.


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## mfw

That should be enjoyable as long as you dont take the gung ho approach and break parts


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## Markd

I suggest you plan to return in less than 12 months.
If you intend to spend more than 12 months you have to tell DVLA that you are 'permanently' exporting the vehicle!
I do appreciate that you are looking at contingency planning 'just in case' - we've established that the main issue is not being picked up by police for no MoT in this country but whether if you crash whether your insurance is valid.
You may find a policy that doesn't specifically require an MoT certificate that you can renew while you are delayed.

This doesn't help with the risk of being required to produce papers by police on the way of course. However it will just be papers so as our 'certificates' are plain paper nowadays you might be able to produce something that would pass muster for a routine check.
Otherwise you will have to see what local certification can be acquired for foreign vehicles on your route. We will of course be past the end of the Brexit transition period by then so the current arrangement of getting a local MoT to retax the vehicle won't necessarily apply. (Not withstanding the great negotiator's assertion that we'll still have everything we ever had of course )
However if you arrange the tax to run out before the MoT you can easily retax online.


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## mfw

Markd said:


> This doesn't help with the risk of being required to produce papers by police on the way of course. However it will just be papers so as our 'certificates' are plain paper nowadays you might be able to produce something that would pass muster for a routine check.


A bit of forgery or fraud - that could probably cause a lot more problems in a foreign country


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## Markd

mfw said:


> A bit of forgery or fraud - that could probably cause a lot more problems in a foreign country


Yes - does rather depend on your attitude to risk.
As I said the obvious thing if you want to stay legal is to get back inside 12 months or work out how/whether you can get a local MoT re-route.


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## Tony Lee

mistericeman said:


> Not strictly accurate.... AFAIK
> Your insurer has a legal duty to maintain 3rd party cover though no mot will likely mean the loss of fully comp AND your insurance company chasing you through the courts for their losses.


And if the Spanish Police catch up with you you can add another BIG fine to your troubles. 

Geneva Convention on Road Traffic requires the vehicle to comply with all technical requirement and be validly registered back in the country of registration. 
Apart from that, British law requires that a vehicle that is going to be out of the country for more than x months be formally exported, and SORNing it isn't an option eithe


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## Tony Lee

mfw said:


> A bit of forgery or fraud - that could probably cause a lot more problems in a foreign country



Spanish Police go to the UK public Database that gives MOT and tax and insurance status and dish out fines accordingly 
Post Brexit, I imagine they will come down a lot harder


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## jagmanx

The OP has an adventurous trip in mind probably for many months.
Good luck to him but it appears to me that he must aim to return to UK within a year (otherwise he has to export the vehicle !!!).
Organise the MOT for just before he leaves so he has some MOT leeway when returning.
For most of Europe he will still need UK road tax to be paid ( minor cost relatively anyway)
With an MOT in place road tax and uk insurance can be done over tinternet.
The web-site for the rally seems to be able to assist with visas etc
UK vehicle insurance is unlikely to cover all the countries he visits but again the web-site no doubt has ways to solve this.
With some countries you buy insurance at the border.


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## barryd

The OP might find this blog an interesting read.  http://www.theworldisourlobster.com/The_World_Is_Our_Lobster/Blog/Blog.html

We met with Catherine and Chris twice, the first time on the Isle of Arran before they set off on their epic adventure and the second time in the Dordogne where I contributed to their blog, a rather boozy evening I seem to remember.  http://www.theworldisourlobster.com...011/10/14_96_France_-_Rivers.html?LMCL=TNqjQ9

I do recall that their venture into Russia did not go well.  

They may well be a useful contact to get in touch with. Last I heard they were wardens at a Caravan club site in Kendal.


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## Deleted member 73966

Tookey said:


> Hi,
> 
> On returning from abroad with an out of date MOT do you have any leeway with getting your new MOT done without the first motorway smart camera sending you a fine?


Just book an mot close to home and you are fine. I have done this before and never got any fine or been stopped.


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## Sid

Tony Lee said:


> And if the Spanish Police catch up with you you can add another BIG fine to your troubles.
> 
> Geneva Convention on Road Traffic requires the vehicle to comply with all technical requirement and be validly registered back in the country of registration.
> Apart from that, British law requires that a vehicle that is going to be out of the country for more than x months be formally exported, and SORNing it isn't an option eithe


So TY is going East well east and one of the few folk on here who will actually wild camp in a van and others are worried about running into Spanish police. I have to say that is a fantastic adventure and I wish you all the best, whatever happens the memories will last a lifetime. A mate of mine did the entire length of the Pacific coast in a Bedford "flourist" van he was away for nearly 2 years. He didn't have any real issues, imported the van into a country where import duties weren't high, then exported back to the UK at the end. They always said the adventure didn't start until the van was broken into, all their UK stuff was stolen and they had to dress as South Americans for over a year. Even a dropped valve in some remote bit of Brazil didn't worry them, DHL spare parts, drain oil, tip van on its side engine out through the bottom and reverse and carry on. Have a great time.....


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## jagmanx

Hi Sid,
Yes the comments about Spanish might seem irrelevent. BUT vital you have all the paperwork in place.
This to prevent unnecessary problems. Without doom-mongering Russian officials may choose to be awkward.
Just a matter of trying to avoid paperwork issues. Whislt in Europe I belive UK insurance depends on a valid MOT so make sure it is in place for the return journey.
The "Rally site" appear to offer vehicle repatriation @£1000 but what about passengers ?
Go for it by all means but do the obvious !


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## david how

Tookey said:


> Hi,
> 
> On returning from abroad with an out of date MOT do you have any leeway with getting your new MOT done without the first motorway smart camera sending you a fine?


hello.  i just commented on your FB, then i see you here, so Hi,


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## Tookey

david how said:


> hello.  i just commented on your FB, then i see you here, so Hi,


Hi,

I'm not on FB, if you've seen my moho on there I suspect it's a on campervan group? If that's right that's my wife   

Your ambulance looks interesting, maybe as it's a self build you could introduce it on 'motorhome builder' forum as members will be interested. Piccys of build would be good


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## Glynno

ANPR can be anywhere.
Is this of any help https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/returning_to_the_uk_with_a_vehic you may get away with it if you book your vehicle in for an mot and are on your way to the garage. I think distance may be a problem. Or you could contact Gov.co.uk. The vehicle can be impounded.


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## wildman

why not just book an MOT in Dover


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## Tookey

wildman said:


> why not just book an MOT in Dover


In case it fails, I can not predict what 'bush mechanic' fixes will have taken place. If I am late back to the UK I will already be stressed and the last thing I will want is a couple of nights in a premier inn with a tired wife and a bored 5 yr old waiting for parts or even worse its a write off and I am 300 miles from home with a camper full of gear. Getting caught with an out of date MOT but with one booked at home (I can plead the driving to an MOT) is preferable than driving a failed MOT as then I have no excuse.


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## mfw

Tookey said:


> In case it fails, I can not predict what 'bush mechanic' fixes will have taken place. If I am late back to the UK I will already be stressed and the last thing I will want is a couple of nights in a premier inn with a tired wife and a bored 5 yr old waiting for parts or even worse its a write off and I am 300 miles from home with a camper full of gear. Getting caught with an out of date MOT but with one booked at home (I can plead the driving to an MOT) is preferable than driving a failed MOT as then I have no excuse.


Not sure a 300 mile drive with no mot even if booked in would be classed as reasonable if you have a major defect and have an accident you could put yourself in a position you cant get out of - just make sure you have a couple of days mot left when you get back to uk


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## wildebus

mfw said:


> Not sure a 300 mile drive with no mot even if booked in would be classed as reasonable if you have a major defect and have an accident you could put yourself in a position you cant get out of - just make sure you have a couple of days mot left when you get back to uk


There are some things that are MOT failures but are not dangerous in the slightest.   It would be very annoying to end up in that situation when you have a perfectly roadworthy vehicle but which would not pass the MOT.

(seems strange but roadworthiness and MOT 'passable' are very separate things in the UK).


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## jagmanx

I fail to see the problem !
You are planning 11 months (Cannot do more without exporting the vehicle !!!!!!)
Get a new MOT just before you go !
If the vehicle fails that MOT you would need to get it fixed before venturing abroad anyway.
All the valid comments re organising an MOT on your return are not valid. Your MOT should allow yoy at least 1 week to get home
Organisation and timing
Yes organise / book one just before the "year old" MOT expires
Concerns about the vehicle breaking down or being delayed are matters and inherent in your trip.
From what I read the "rally fee" covers repatriation.
Organising MOT will be the least of any problems you may encounter !


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## mfw

Police can impound vehicles that they deem as unroadworthy whether they have an mot or not and maybe even crush them - it is all down to personal choice and if people are prepared to take chances

Personally i would not drive a vehicle without an mot further than a few miles or the nearest mot station - but i would ensure i was back in uk before mot was due anyway

Not going to knock anyone for travelling 100s of miles for mot but if they lose their vehicle because of it - i certainly wont have any sympathy either


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## Tookey

jagmanx said:


> I fail to see the problem !
> You are planning 11 months (Cannot do more without exporting the vehicle !!!!!!)
> Get a new MOT just before you go !
> If the vehicle fails that MOT you would need to get it fixed before venturing abroad anyway.
> All the valid comments re organising an MOT on your return are not valid. Your MOT should allow yoy at least 1 week to get home
> Organisation and timing
> Yes organise / book one just before the "year old" MOT expires
> Concerns about the vehicle breaking down or being delayed are matters and inherent in your trip.
> From what I read the "rally fee" covers repatriation.
> Organising MOT will be the least of any problems you may encounter !


I am not doing the Mongol rally


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## Tookey

I plan to be less than 12 months, I plan to be legal, I plan for everything to be 'hunky dory'..... but it doesn't always work out.

I only asked about cameras


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## mfw

Tookey said:


> I plan to be less than 12 months, I plan to be legal, I plan for everything to be 'hunky dory'..... but it doesn't always work out.
> 
> I only asked about cameras


The M25 is certainly monitored ( britains busiest motorway ) whether the cameras are ANPR cameras is anyones guess - but you could try watching a few of the programmes and figure out if they are ANPR or not - unless you dont intend using the M25


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