# New to the scene and am struggling with what products to buy?



## thomas0702 (Nov 1, 2017)

I have just purchased a lovely (albeit second hand) 2005 swift kontiki. I cant wait to get it out and about, however I need some upgrades and I am unsure what to start with. 

Refillable LPG system, Solar panels, Satalite TV??

Any advice?


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## groyne (Nov 1, 2017)

Depends what you want to do. Use what you've got for a while and see if it fits in with your life style, then you'll know what upgrades, if any, you need. After a couple of continental trips, we knew we needed a refillable gas system.


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## barge1914 (Nov 1, 2017)

*Extras*



thomas0702 said:


> I have just purchased a lovely (albeit second hand) 2005 swift kontiki. I cant wait to get it out and about, however I need some upgrades and I am unsure what to start with.
> 
> Refillable LPG system, Solar panels, Satalite TV??
> 
> Any advice?



It depends to some degree on where you plan to travel most. We've got all these items on our Bessacarr.

Found our 70 litre gas tank very useful, saves the constant need to source cylinders, a real pain if you travel abroad where types differ from country to country. Fill up only every 2-3 months. Fitting a small tank however, like those 20 litre jobbies on Autosleeper's is not so useful as you run out too frequently and may be a problem mid winter and in areas with few lpg stations.

Solar panels, as big as you can accommodate. With only 120W we don't need hookup between mid march-Nov, which enables you to use free and cheap sites/aires without elec. 

Satellite dish. Well, depends on how much you like TV. But be aware if you travel far abroad you won't get a U.K. service very far beyond France, Belgium and Holland.

Finally be careful to assess the impact  of whatever you fit on your payload.


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## runnach (Nov 1, 2017)

groyne said:


> Depends what you want to do. Use what you've got for a while and see if it fits in with your life style, then you'll know what upgrades, if any, you need. After a couple of continental trips, we knew we needed a refillable gas system.


My sentiments too !! learn as you go and decide a wish list 

Channa


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## Dogeared (Nov 1, 2017)

You really need to try a weekend off grid meet, like the Hollingsworth this weekend, find out what you need to run electric wise, and how long it lasts you. We started of with single battery, no solar panel, used to last about three days.  Now have two batteries plus 120w solar panel, can last about eight to ten days in Winter, weeks in summer.
're gas, most important thing is ensure you have propane/Lpg if out in Winter.  Try on existing bottles to find out how long it lasts.  Off grid in Winter you will need it for your heating so not last as long.  On board refillable bottles/tank are ideal if you prefer being away from sites that have electric,  massive saving in long run, but find out how you want to use the van before spending.
TV is a personal choice, just wait and see what you need. Satelitte systems aren't cheap and a bit of a luxury.

Most of all remember, most of us went through three vans before we found what was right for us, so don't jump to quickly into any upgrades.


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## Jeff G (Nov 1, 2017)

Usage will soon give you an idea of what additions to make,but to be honest,the refillable gas is a must.


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## runnach (Nov 1, 2017)

hairydog said:


> My advice is to see how you go without them. Your motorhome was designed without those things and has been used without those things up till now. So you ought to get by without them to see how it goes.
> 
> Refillable gas makes life a lot easier: you can top up at will, so no bottle changing, no decisions about whether to swap now and waste some.
> 
> ...



A really useful comment for someone making their first post to the site ...you have made a couple of posts recently commenting people were rude to you . Pot calling kettle black. Despite the fact it is hard to wander around in the pitch black it is November !! ,,,The OP or part of his party may well be disabled etc ...Why he want tv is immaterial 

Channa


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## delicagirl (Nov 1, 2017)

i find the peace in my tv-free van really wonderful, although i do have a radio, and a few CDs which i play on my laptop occassionally - but each to their own.

re  "stuff"   -  you could well spend as much again on "stuff" for inside the van as you spent on its purchase.   Any product with "campervan" in its title is  bound to be  75% more expensive than if it didn't .......   

my suggestion would be go to a meet, ask to look in other folks vans and get some ideas what others have done and what they find useful -  we all love talking about our vans....   really we do...   and so will you fairly soon...


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## QFour (Nov 1, 2017)

You maybe limited to the size of gas bottles you can use. We had a Bolero and could only get the 6Kg bottles in the gas locker. Don't be tempted to rush out and buy loads of STUFF you may find that you don't use it. We found enamel plates work really well. You can put them in the oven and they keep food warm. THey bounce and are very light. You may also need a couple of watering cans ..

..


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## Minisorella (Nov 1, 2017)

I'd echo what most people have said... don't rush out to buy everything but give it a go and see what's most important to you personally. It's a good suggestion from Dogeared to get yourself to a weekend meet to try things out and get some on-the-spot opinions and advice... as well as meet some of the lovely people on here.

For me, I consider a solar panel and refillable gas to be must-haves. In fact, I've had battery charging problems lately... not charging from the alternator and the mains charger died but the solar system is still working its little heart out, so worth its weight in gold until I get the other bits sorted.  Installing the refillables is indeed an expense that would take time to recoup but I prefer to dismiss that as a one-off cost because there were other reasons to go for refillable... not least my pesky back, so no more heaving heavy bottles in and out. Refilling is around a quarter of the cost of exchange in my area. My van's cooking and heating is all gas, so I can cook to my heart's content and be cosy without having to worry.

Another thing I couldn't live without is a memory foam mattress topper!  Have fun with your new home from home


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## trevskoda (Nov 1, 2017)

For me i would say solar panels when time allows,but first thing id fit are usb cigy sockets to charge m/phones etc,get from ebay cheap and few hr to fit.
Next would be led bulbs all round if not already so,and a led step light on a remote key fob,handy returning to van at night,you can also wire to one inside light ,these also from ebay 12v  4  remote switching units.:wave:


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## Deleted member 9849 (Nov 1, 2017)

delicagirl said:


> i find the peace in my tv-free van really wonderful, although i do have a radio, and a few CDs which i play on my laptop occassionally - but each to their own.
> 
> re  "stuff"   -  you could well spend as much again on "stuff" for inside the van as you spent on its purchase.   Any product with "campervan" in its title is  bound to be  75% more expensive than if it didn't .......
> *
> my suggestion would be go to a meet, ask to look in other folks vans and get some ideas what others have done and what they find useful *-  we all love talking about our vans....   really we do...   and so will you fairly soon...



Excellent advice or you will end up with a loft full of unwanted accessories like me,you'll also meet some helpful and friendly members.

Ignore the comment about not needing solar panels,they should be one of the first things on any motorhomers list.


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## trevskoda (Nov 1, 2017)

wakk44 said:


> Excellent advice or you will end up with a loft full of unwanted accessories like me,you'll also meet some helpful and friendly members.
> 
> Ignore the comment about not needing solar panels,they should be one of the first things on any motorhomers list.



I do agree but costly at first,bit daunting at first for some folk.


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## RichardHelen262 (Nov 1, 2017)

First thing we did was change bulbs to led,
Second thing was to fit solar
Third was to fit refillable gas bottles,
If you are having tv make sure it is 12 volt.
When you buy any chairs make sure you can fit them in your storage lockers, as I now have a lovely pair of reclining chairs for home, as they wouldn’t fit into any of the motorhome storage places


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## Pauljenny (Nov 1, 2017)

Welcome to the website.
Use the search function to answer any questions.. It's all there, if you look.
Try putting in, " how to wild camp  ", and see where that gets you.


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## molly 2 (Nov 1, 2017)

Not on your list but good quality external screens are a must for winter camping


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## sasquatch (Nov 1, 2017)

Refillable gas ,useful when traveling in Europe,solar panel to keep batteries topped up especially engine one. I wouldn't bother with a satellite system,just a decent radio/CD player and insulating screens.


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## jagmanx (Nov 2, 2017)

*Yee Yes No*

Solar Yes 120Watt enough for us

LPG/refillable Yes ...
I have 2 bottles and if nearly empty 33 litres to fill which lasts us over 1 month (in Spring summer Autumn)
But many just buy foreign bottles if abroad 
LPG is less than 50% cost of calor so payback occurs

Satellite No

The above suits us:wave::wave::wave:


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## Gnomus (Nov 2, 2017)

Increased storage for me. I am thinking of removing the factory fitted microwave and replace with a cupboard. Also dont use the oven, a grill and hob would do for me. Also not sure about having a TV ariel, may use the hole to fit a solar panel at some point.


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## barryd (Nov 2, 2017)

If your going to be a wild camper then the one that is a no brainer is Solar power.  I wish I had done that one straight away.

LPG refillables is a no brainer if you do longer trips and go abroad but if your only doing two or three weeks a year maybe not.

Satellite TV?   A luxury really.  We struggled with the TV and I got sick of not getting a decent signal in the UK and planned to go abroad long term so I got an automatic Dome fitted but this was nearly ten years ago before the footprints were greatly reduced and before It was as easy as it is now to download stuff to watch on laptops and usb drives etc.  I could live without it now even on a four month tour. In fact you have to as apart from news channels and other stuff the regular BBC, ITV etc soon disappear in Europe.  Some people swear by these satellite in a suitcase things you can get from Aldi for about sixty quid but they look a faff to me.

Getting online in the van is important for me so a decent phone or data contract, wifi extender / antenna is essential.

Sat nav and as many POI as you can get. Wild spots from here, Aires etc for Europe, supermarkets, LPG stations, Kebab shops etc.


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## Deleted member 68397 (Nov 2, 2017)

*Agree with the general advice given, try it and see.*

We found when we first got the MH we wanted, like yourselves, to have it as we thought we would like it. After a couple of longer trips away with no modifications we were able to rule out a couple of expensive additions as we found we didn't need them.
I would suggest meeting up with some of the regular crew on here at some of their meetings and only then will you appreciate how many varied options you have and the knowledge base is legendary.
Enjoy, catch you in the wind.
Growlie and Littlepony.


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## thomas0702 (Nov 2, 2017)

Thank you for all the advice guys. I have already changed all the bulbs for LED's (my ebay account loves me). The TV can wait, I like the idea of the solar panels but think my first upgrade will be the refillable gas system.

I've seen that GAS IT have a sale on during November so might consider a bottle kit. I've seen loads of different threads on here and gas it seem to be rated well.


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## delicagirl (Nov 2, 2017)

There is so much conflicting advice out there from motor home dealers and "repairers" about what you MUST have and most of it is profit-based advice.  I suggest you use your van for  a few trips, go to a few meets, chat to those who have been vanning for a long time, look at their adaptations  and only then spend some cash.  I also agree that a solar panel is vital  - but you can probably  leave that purchase till the spring with winter approaching. 

Every van is different, and we all use our vans for different reasons and different journeys.  There is no one-size-fits-all. 

For me one of THE most important things if you plan to go off for long trips is a large water tank - and a backup supply. 

All else is useful...  water is vital !!


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## witzend (Nov 2, 2017)

*Try it and See*

Try it and See. As for solar it depends on your use of van if you move every couple of days you'd probably not need it. I managed ok with out when touring with 2 x 85 ah battery's. Refillable gas I don't use UK gas and once you go into Europe bottled gas is a lot cheaper than here and easier to find than a LPG outlet. Satellite TV I'd not try to manage without we watch TV at home so why not in the van if you do decide to I'd suggest a manual setup as from what I've seen and read autos can be problematic.   So try it and see


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## Mick H (Nov 2, 2017)

*Easy Question?*



thomas0702 said:


> I have just purchased a lovely (albeit second hand) 2005 swift kontiki. I cant wait to get it out and about, however I need some upgrades and I am unsure what to start with.
> 
> Refillable LPG system, Solar panels, Satalite TV??
> 
> Any advice?



And you thought that you had asked an easy question! As you can see, from the replies, we have different opinions, and that isn't unusual, on forums.
As regards this forum, we can't even agree about the time of day.

My opinion? I agree with those who advocate waiting, until after you have used the van, a few times. I often wish that I had done this, instead of wasting money.

DON'T buy any accessories, until you have thought about it, carefully. They ALL add weight, and will eat into your payload. This adds to fuel consumption, extra tyre wear etc. In addition, most accessories, that are fitted on the outside of the van, will compound this factor, by adding extra drag.
We have had these discussions, before, but people who argue against this view, are arguing against the laws of physics.

Also, those who  make sweeping statements that a particular accessory is definately required, are only giving an opinion, not facts.
You don't actually need any extras, they might be desirable, but are NOT needed.

To qualify this view, I point out, that Motorhomes were around, well before Refillable gas bottles, Solar panels, and Satellite tv, were even invented.
We still thoroughly enjoyed this fantastic hobby, even without these luxuries.

Personally, I have Satellite tv, and Refillable gas bottles, but not Solar panels, because I haven't found the need for them, and well understand the downside aspect, of having them on a van. I might add, that with our particular style of motorhoming, we rarely stay anywhere, for much more than 3 days.

I only had Refillable gas bottles, because, on our van, the gas bottles, are not side by side, so it was a difficult task, to swap over the inside one. We couldn't have a gas tank, being low profile, so opted for refillable bottles.

Tv, in a van, is obviously, a personal choice. Even in the days, before all the modern systems were available, I have always had tv. First, it was to keep the kids happy, but these days, our van really is a second home, so we have an automatic satellite system. That is mainly for abroad, and we tend to use a multi-directional aerial, for uk tv reception. More stealth like, for wildcamping, with no dish avertising that the motorhome is in use.

When you have used your van, for a few times, why not consider becoming a full member of this site, it makes our motorhoming life so much easier, both camping in the UK, or on the continent. Much better value, than any accessory that I can think of.

Whatever you do, try to use your Kontiki, as often as you are able, and enjoy it.


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## barryd (Nov 2, 2017)

What is the downside of having a solar panel? I cant see any.


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## Mick H (Nov 2, 2017)

*Downside of Solar*



barryd said:


> What is the downside of having a solar panel? I cant see any.



 In my previous post, on this thread, I've referred to the fuel consumption aspect, this includes the considerable weight, of the complete solar installation, and the effect of disturbing the aerodynamics. A very similar fuel consuming attachment, is having an empty roof rack, the details of which, have been well documented, for years. In the case of most solar installations, on a motorhome, this is for life, once fitted, so it isn't free power.

On a practical level, solar, in many uk winters, doesn't provide sufficient output, to be of much use, short daytimes, sun low in the sky, dull days, sun low in the sky (if it put's in an appearance), etc.  All of this, when we need our batteries,more than ever, for lighting, heating etc.

Another issue, is shadow, which reduces output. Even in summer, we often have to park in the shade, to avoid the heat, in a motorhome. In these circumstances, solar panel output, is again reduced. I found this out, on a German stellplatz, when they all wanted to plug into the electricity, even though many had solar.

I stress, that I'm certainly not against solar, since I've got a solar installation, on my house, but this has demonstrated, to me, that it wouldn't be much use on our motorhome.

The cost of any installation, is considerable, although prices have reduced, in recent years. Also, flexible panels are now available, which would offset the effects, of aerodynamic problems, to some extent. Just like batteries, solar panels loose their efficiency, with age, and temperature variations.


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## redhand (Nov 2, 2017)

I was in your situation three years ago first motorhome, reading on here made me feel i had to have all the accessories.
Refillable gas i now see no need for, we were away for three weeks recently used approx 10kg gas our gas cupboard holds a 13 and 11kgs bottles
we used small solar phone charger to keep phones and tablets charged no problem and weather was only average
despite being somewhat square eyed at home i have rediscovered the pleasure in reading,gaming , talking on an evening
so take your time seems to be the motor homing adage in all things


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## thomas0702 (Nov 2, 2017)

***** said:


> I think some replies might have frightened the opening poster away as up to now it is his/ hers only post!
> Some good replies and has been said, one size does not fit all!:sleep-027:



I am trying to reply, but am awaiting the moderator to release my comments


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## phillybarbour (Nov 2, 2017)

Solar and gas refillable yes, sat for me no. Just changed to our third van and not having sat this time but did on the other two. Big cost, little better than a good aerial (unless you want Sky), more weight and the way forward it’s downloads to a device then played through the TV.

Might think different if I was in Europes for months.


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## trevskoda (Nov 2, 2017)

CHBrinton said:


> Increased storage for me. I am thinking of removing the factory fitted microwave and replace with a cupboard. Also dont use the oven, a grill and hob would do for me. Also not sure about having a TV ariel, may use the hole to fit a solar panel at some point.



Use one of these boat cable gland to bring in cable,place it under the panel.


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## Philfrommancs (Nov 2, 2017)

Having just picked my 1st MH up yesterday my better half and I are doing a tour of the accessory stores this weekend. 

I had a big long list in my head of things i wanted... this thread has been really useful at making me stop and think..... I haven't even spent a night away in it yet.lol.

So....i think we will make a list of needs and wants... starting with led bulbs where possible.  Save the spending until we have been away a few times.. Shame though as i was looking forward to my new solar panel....

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


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## barryd (Nov 2, 2017)

Mick H said:


> In my previous post, on this thread, I've referred to the fuel consumption aspect, this includes the considerable weight, of the complete solar installation, and the effect of disturbing the aerodynamics. A very similar fuel consuming attachment, is having an empty roof rack, the details of which, have been well documented, for years. In the case of most solar installations, on a motorhome, this is for life, once fitted, so it isn't free power.
> 
> On a practical level, solar, in many uk winters, doesn't provide sufficient output, to be of much use, short daytimes, sun low in the sky, dull days, sun low in the sky (if it put's in an appearance), etc.  All of this, when we need our batteries,more than ever, for lighting, heating etc.
> 
> ...



I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one but I cannot believe a 8kg flat solar panel on the roof of an already pretty none Aerodynamic 7m x 3m white brick of a motorhome is going to make any difference to fuel economy.  Least none that would be noticeable not that I pay any attention to MPG anyway, it seems roughly the same miles between fill ups no matter what on our van.  I agree that in Winter they are pretty useless but then most people tend to use their vans in the summer more than winter and hookup in the winter (least I do).  April to October they are superb though and even on a cloudy day they charge.  For me its been a game changer.  I like to wild camp or use airs all over Europe and I am always away most of the summer.  Its like having your own hookup and I can stay in one spot and just use the scooter indefinitely.  Before we had solar fitted you felt pressured to move on every couple of days and had to be miserly with power.  Now we can have laptops on, lights on etc when ever we like (in the summer) and still be free to wild or use aires.  Most aires and wild spots in my experience are seldom in the shade as well.

Cost was minimal (about £300 all in) and I reckon ive made that back with not having to move on as much.

Thats why I suggested it as a no brainer.  Cheap, lightweight and fit and forget pretty much.


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## korky (Nov 2, 2017)

barryd said:


> I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one but I cannot believe a 8kg flat solar panel on the roof of an already pretty none Aerodynamic 7m x 3m white brick of a motorhome is going to make any difference to fuel economy.  Least none that would be noticeable not that I pay any attention to MPG anyway, it seems roughly the same miles between fill ups no matter what on our van.  I agree that in Winter they are pretty useless but then most people tend to use their vans in the summer more than winter and hookup in the winter (least I do).  April to October they are superb though and even on a cloudy day they charge.  For me its been a game changer.  I like to wild camp or use airs all over Europe and I am always away most of the summer.  Its like having your own hookup and I can stay in one spot and just use the scooter indefinitely.  Before we had solar fitted you felt pressured to move on every couple of days and had to be miserly with power.  Now we can have laptops on, lights on etc when ever we like (in the summer) and still be free to wild or use aires.  Most aires and wild spots in my experience are seldom in the shade as well.
> 
> Cost was minimal (about £300 all in) and I reckon ive made that back with not having to move on as much.
> 
> Thats why I suggested it as a no brainer.  Cheap, lightweight and fit and forget pretty much.



We don't all drive 7m x 3m white bricks Barry. Never needed solar on my present PVC or the one before.

Twin 85ah leisure batteries have always been sufficient for me,but there do seem to be some heavy power users around.

In winter with long dark nights in the van and blown air heating on I might need more power but solar would not provide enough then.

That would be the rare time I'd look for EHU if staying still more than a couple of days.

Korky.


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## barryd (Nov 3, 2017)

korky said:


> We don't all drive 7m x 3m white bricks Barry. Never needed solar on my present PVC or the one before.
> 
> Twin 85ah leisure batteries have always been sufficient for me,but there do seem to be some heavy power users around.
> 
> ...



Thats fair enough.  I guess we have given the OP (if they ever come back) enough to think about though.  I just thought that because they were so cheap, easy to fit, lightweight and long term reliable they really were a no brainer.  Then again it might explain why ive occasionally seen people on Aires running Gennies when its 30 degrees and 12 hours sunshine.


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## Mick H (Nov 3, 2017)

barryd said:


> I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one but I cannot believe a 8kg flat solar panel on the roof of an already pretty none Aerodynamic 7m x 3m white brick of a motorhome is going to make any difference to fuel economy.  Least none that would be noticeable not that I pay any attention to MPG anyway, it seems roughly the same miles between fill ups no matter what on our van.  I agree that in Winter they are pretty useless but then most people tend to use their vans in the summer more than winter and hookup in the winter (least I do).  April to October they are superb though and even on a cloudy day they charge.  For me its been a game changer.  I like to wild camp or use airs all over Europe and I am always away most of the summer.  Its like having your own hookup and I can stay in one spot and just use the scooter indefinitely.  Before we had solar fitted you felt pressured to move on every couple of days and had to be miserly with power.  Now we can have laptops on, lights on etc when ever we like (in the summer) and still be free to wild or use aires.  Most aires and wild spots in my experience are seldom in the shade as well.
> 
> Cost was minimal (about £300 all in) and I reckon ive made that back with not having to move on as much.
> 
> Thats why I suggested it as a no brainer.  Cheap, lightweight and fit and forget pretty much.


 
I fully accept that we can agree to disagree, but, nevertheless, you are  trying to dispute the laws of physics, on this one.
However, extra fuel consumption could be minimal, but look at estimated empty roof rack fuel consumption figures, for a similar comparison, and many of these wouldn't have the weight of motorhome solar installations.

Regarding moving on, we want to move on, every couple of days, or so, and don't really use any more fuel, because of the circular aspect of our travels, visiting the places that we want to see.

I am not trying to talk anyone out of having solar, just trying to raise awareness, regarding the often overlooked facts.
As I said, before, all accessories add weight, some of them, like roll out awnings, are excessive. It's obviously our own personal choice.


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## Deleted member 9849 (Nov 3, 2017)

barryd said:


> I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one but I cannot believe a 8kg flat solar panel on the roof of an already pretty none Aerodynamic 7m x 3m white brick of a motorhome is going to make any difference to fuel economy.  Least none that would be noticeable not that I pay any attention to MPG anyway, it seems roughly the same miles between fill ups no matter what on our van.  I agree that in Winter they are pretty useless but then most people tend to use their vans in the summer more than winter and hookup in the winter (least I do).  April to October they are superb though and even on a cloudy day they charge.  For me its been a game changer.  I like to wild camp or use airs all over Europe and I am always away most of the summer.  Its like having your own hookup and I can stay in one spot and just use the scooter indefinitely.  Before we had solar fitted you felt pressured to move on every couple of days and had to be miserly with power.  Now we can have laptops on, lights on etc when ever we like (in the summer) and still be free to wild or use aires.  Most aires and wild spots in my experience are seldom in the shade as well.
> 
> Cost was minimal (about £300 all in) and I reckon ive made that back with not having to move on as much.
> 
> Thats why I suggested it as a no brainer.  Cheap, lightweight and fit and forget pretty much.



My thoughts exactly,it's good to have electrical independence,not be slave to a EHU and not have to worry about moving on and charging the batteries.I've turned up at a commercial site before and found the best pitches with a view were non-electric.We had a lovely 11 nights on the cliff tops overlooking a picturesque fishing harbour in Brittany,something we would have struggled to have done without solar power.

I agree in winter they don't produce any meaningful current but we always try and get a hook up at this time of year although with my leisure battery array I estimate we could go for about 5 nights without a charge.Also for people who have their vans in storage without electric a solar panel is an essential item to ensure the vehicle battery will start the engine on a freezing cold January morning.

I agree with Barry-it's a no brainer and one of the first things I would fit to any new motorhome.


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## malagaoth (Nov 4, 2017)

my advice is dont buy anything until you have personally identified a need for it.

Im just back from 4 weeks in the south of England - no solar panels and standard manufacturers battery arrangement (no idea what it is beyond it being the standard battery which is 8 years old)  I did not experience any shortage of power, my volt meter never dipped below 12.1 volts.

I ran out of gas on day two in mid Wales and although I did not expressly go looking for a replacement  it was day three before I found one mid Wales apparently is a calor gas desert (I didnt see any LPG fill up points - but again I didnt go looking)

So I could go out and spend a couple of hundred on a solar system but do I actually need one - probably not
I could go out and spend money on huge new leisure batteries but again I dont need them
and I could go out and spend money on a refillable gas system which depending on my useage might never save me enough money to pay for itself and might be difficult to find somewhere to refill  - try getting a fill on Orkney!  - although at least I wouldnt have to lift the bottles in and out

No, as I said, before you spend any money go out for a season and see what you actually NEED (as opposed to want)  of course as bulbs blow it makes sense to replace them with the LED version - which are probably cheaper anyway



in the spirit of absolute honesty I should say that part of my month away included 4 nights on a campsite with a hook up (at £5 per night why not?)


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## jagmanx (Nov 5, 2017)

*Need want or like ?*



malagaoth said:


> my advice is dont buy anything until you have personally identified a need for it.
> 
> Im just back from 4 weeks in the south of England - no solar panels and standard manufacturers battery arrangement (no idea what it is beyond it being the standard battery which is 8 years old)  I did not experience any shortage of power, my volt meter never dipped below 12.1 volts.
> 
> ...



I can easily agree that

it is possible to motorhome without Solar
Solar will affect mpg
lpg fitting is costly and does have minor supply issues

It then depends on how much travelling you do and where (LPG availabily)
We use our MH for 5 months every summer thus

(1) Solar is great we have saved a fortune by either not needing a campsite or EHU (or both) thus any extra fuel(2) cost is negligible
and the installation cost of about £300 was paid back in 1 summer

2 LPG installation cost circa £600
Last summer 2017 we spent £120 on LPG the cost of Calor would have been about £300
Similar figures for 2016 and 2015 and half (£150) for 2014 Thus a total "saving" of say £1000

With 2 LPG tanks we can "go for 4 weeks" between refills although we tend to top up before 3 weeks or if LPG is cheap

Then there is the convenience this is where I suggest "want or like" become more relevant than need.
AS I have put above we use our MH extensively hence not only have we got payback but also convenience and peace of mind.
It also allows us to wildcamp extensively
We  first used MH in 2010. It was when I retired in 2013 that I considered that Solar and LPG were indeed "needed"

We had simply had short (up to 3 weeks) holidays before with No Solar and No LPG
A longer tour of France in 2013 with no calor available suggested LPG
It is however perfectly viable to purchase local gas bottles and "pigtails"

The OP should certainly use his vehicle before investing to see what his "profile" is or might be
I do however think that Solar is almost a "no brainer"
AND as others have posted it maintains batteries in winter
LPG is entirely dependent on usage both style and quantity

Finally I like the modifications we have installed as it makes our life more comfortable and relaxed

Similar considerations apply to a gas BBQ we have a Cadac which we like
Last summer was poor..the weather so bad (Wet Windy Cold or all 3) we did not use it once !
The awning also had very few "outings"


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## Keithchesterfield (Nov 5, 2017)

As you are posting on these forums I presume you are thinking of going Wild camping, or at least away from the madding crowds, and if you are you need equipment that allows you to do so.

Every thing depends on where you go, the length of your holiday and how long you stop on each site.

If you were staying in this country and using C&MC or C&CC sites day after day it would mean you will be on hook up almost continually, not need to have or use your own facilities, be told exactly where to park the Motorhome and (to be honest) not need any help or advice from the Wildies forums.

But if you have a sense of adventure and desire to enjoy yourself abroad you will need more equipment than the bog standard Motorhome equipment on a basic vehicle.

You need to have trial run or two to places that appeal and once you realise any limitations of your Motorhome then, and only then, start writing your Santa Claus or Birthday list and see if get what you desire - or else raid your moth infested wallet. 

Solar panels will not only give you some power, the warmer the climate the more you get, but keep your batteries topped up on the weeks or months when you aren't able to use the vehicle. 

Without Solar panel you will need to have hook up, either at home or on holiday, and that can restrict where you stay and for how long.

The bigger the Solar panel the better and the sooner you decide you need one the less hassle in the long term.

A second leisure battery would certainly help you when 'lost' in deepest France, Spain, Germany. etc but will add weight to your payload.

Refillable cylinders or tanks will ensure you rarely run out wherever you are and even in deepest Winter you will stay snug as a bug in even the worst weather without worries of searching for the obligatory Calor dealer.

Refillable will cost a decent outlay (about £400 fitted for a couple of 11kg Gaslow cylinders and connections on my Pilote) but you can transfer them to another Motorhome if you change vehicles or they can be sold as a job lot if, heavens forbid, you ever pack up on Motorhoming – look at them as a long term investment.

If you want a TV Aerial fitted on the roof remember that any added height could affect the amount you pay when using Foreign Toll motorways – sometimes by quite a large difference.

We've had a couple of months in France this year, April and August, and been on hook up for only a couple of times when it was available and didn't need us to pay extra. 

If you fancy seeing more out of the way places and getting into 'Continental' living then having the right equipment is certainly a bonus and being off the beaten track will certainly restrict how much a nightly stop will cost.

We paid around €100 for 56 overnight stops over two months in France this year - I've no doubt plenty of Members on here will think we must me very well off spending all that much money - but a weekend on a C&MC site in this country would probably cost a similar amount.

Initial outlays on equipment hurt the bank balance but sensible investments will give you weeks, months and even years of happy holidays and great memories. 

Hope this helps. 

:dog:  :dog:  :dog:  :dog:


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## Deleted member 54605 (Nov 5, 2017)

*LPG Tanks and cheap LPG*

One point about a good sized LPG tank (bottles or underslung) is that youwill have capacity to take advantage of good deals when you see them. We have only used our van in UK so far (we have dreams of long EU runs one day) but we have noticed a huge variation in LPG costs. Morrisons seem to have the best deals (around 50p per litre) and we now fill up every time we see one and always before coming north of Central Belt in Scotland. Our local LPG garage at Kinloss charges over 70p per litre. Our tank holds 50 liters and we can go for a couple of months on that. The advice we had when we installed the underslung tank was fit the biggest you can and we are glad that we did.


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## Trompete (Nov 6, 2017)

thomas0702 said:


> I have just purchased a lovely (albeit second hand) 2005 swift kontiki. I cant wait to get it out and about, however I need some upgrades and I am unsure what to start with.
> 
> Refillable LPG system, Solar panels, Satalite TV??
> 
> ...


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## wildebus (Nov 7, 2017)

Solar ... As well as providing useful charging power to your batteries, it reduces the sound of rain drumming on your roof and the effect of heat on your roof as well (probably more relevant to PVCs then Custom Motorhomes?)

TV ... maybe better to think of it as a "display" or "monitor" rather than a TV, as just as likely to be used to watch DVDs, stuff on USB memory sticks, stuff via the Internet such as from Netflix, NowTV, Amazon, YouTube, etc.  "TV" instantly makes the discussion go to questions of signal strength, etc.

Gas ... no comments as I don't have it in mine out of choice. I'm ALL-electric inside other then a future to-be-installed Diesel heater (Eberspacher D2 Airtronic)


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## malagaoth (Nov 8, 2017)

TV ... maybe better to think of it as a "display" or "monitor" rather than a TV, as just as likely to be used to watch DVDs, stuff on USB memory sticks, stuff via the Internet such as from Netflix, NowTV, Amazon, YouTube, etc. "TV" instantly makes the discussion go to questions of signal strength, etc.


My cheapo 12V TV  (Visual Innovations) plays DVDs and lets you record onto a memory stick  - so you can record programmes when you are out - and only draws a shade over 2A


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## Les Haro (Dec 10, 2017)

thomas0702 said:


> I have just purchased a lovely (albeit second hand) 2005 swift kontiki. I cant wait to get it out and about, however I need some upgrades and I am unsure what to start with.
> 
> Refillable LPG system, Solar panels, Satalite TV??
> 
> Any advice?


Refillable LPG doesn't have to be located outside. Standard tanks are horizontal either circular or cylinder. Vertical cylinder tanks are very expensive and few to be had. So it comes down to what space you are willing to give up. Fitting outside is expensive as a ramp is required for access underneath. A closed heating system doesn't up the humidity, an open system produces water vapour as a by-product so you have to vent out and vent in. Who hasn't heated their van from the cooker rings. LPG isn't totally clean it still has small amounts of benzine's etc in it.
If your lungs are good and healthy you can smoke 20 Woodbine a day (like Uncle Harry who died at 76) and still live an active farm life. If your lungs are edgy then what is called sick building syndrome (all things gas off) will come into effect. ie. the allergy to dust mites is actually the odour of the protein in the droppings of the dust mite. You cant see a dust mite let alone its turds and the odour of one chemical constituent inflames the airways. 

Iv'e just had a reply from a panel supplier;-   

Mono flexible are much more efficient hence only around 1m long compared to 1.15m mono solid, 1.25m poly solid
But if space isn't an issue then they perform similarly in real world conditions so you save a good amount by going poly.
We next stock mono flexibles end of February.

If they were trying to grab my money they wouldn't have said delivery in 10 weeks.

If you are after TV etc its all on your phone, step into the modern world today don't wait for it. My phone is full of music/movies and documentaries where ever I am.


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## MF2002 (Dec 12, 2017)

*Suck it and see*

Hiya,

We bought our Motorhome (2012 AutoTrail Tracker RS) in January 2014, it already had a solar panel (120 W with a 110Ah leisure battery) and we asked for a Gaslow system to be fitted - went for 1 x 25l bottle leaving us the option to use a refillable bottle or add a second Gaslow tank at a later date as there's a changeover valve and space for 2 bottles in the locker.

We mostly wildcamp at weekends year round in Scotland (off to Aviemore this weekend) and a couple of weeks in England or Wales tho' we did spend 10 months in France, Spain and Portugal (10/2015-8/2016)

Our van was an upgrade from a tent so we're quite frugal on energy consumption ie when we're away we don't generally watch TV or use technology (tablets, PCs etc) phone recharges from the cigarette lighter when travelling.  Wouldn't thank you for satellite TV - rather have the payload for bikes, books, wine or beer.

Wouldn't contemplate a van without a Gaslow (or similar) system, we never did add another tank or buy a Calor bottle.  We fill up (£12 ish) every 4-6 months and use it for cooking 2-3 meals a day, running the fridge, heating (especially in winter) & hot water. Probably a bit if a luxury but we find it really convenient not having to swap cylinders etc.  There aren't a huge number of Autogas stations North of Perth but it's not been a problem.

Could probably get by without a solar panel - we tend to move on every day or 2 and the sun doesn't shine for long or get very high between September and April this far North - UNLESS we were going back to Europe where we stayed on several Aires for 3-5 days, even then the solar was probably more peace of mind - but it is nice to see the batteries charging for "free".

As others have said don't rush into anything, have a few trips away then decide what you need (and what you want).  Hope this helps.

F


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## Les Haro (Dec 13, 2017)

crumblygapper said:


> One point about a good sized LPG tank (bottles or underslung) is that youwill have capacity to take advantage of good deals when you see them. We have only used our van in UK so far (we have dreams of long EU runs one day) but we have noticed a huge variation in LPG costs. Morrisons seem to have the best deals (around 50p per litre) and we now fill up every time we see one and always before coming north of Central Belt in Scotland. Our local LPG garage at Kinloss charges over 70p per litre. Our tank holds 50 liters and we can go for a couple of months on that. The advice we had when we installed the underslung tank was fit the biggest you can and we are glad that we did.




LPG does not have to be outside of bodywork. 
If you can see a see through dome on tank with everything inside then ok for internal fitting.


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## molly 2 (Dec 13, 2017)

I would go solar first as they're so cheap now 
Refillable gas is an expensive luxury only worthwhile if you use  gas heating in winter  .
Get a low watt 12 v TV 
The big question is do you intend to wild camp in winter?.


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