# Wild camping on Arran & Islay



## Sheringham4 (Mar 23, 2019)

Hi, am visiting the above this summer, and would welcome any hints on some good overnight stops, the excellent Wild Camp app shows many, would just be good to have any recommendations, cheers.  Am preparing ourselves with obligatory potions to cope with the dreaded midge, thought copious amounts of malt whisky might help!


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## jagmanx (Mar 23, 2019)

*Good Thread*

I am considering similar
Ardrossan to Brodick (ferry)
Tour Arran
Lochranza to Claonaig (ferry)
Then South on the East Coast to Campbeltown (B842)
Then North to Lochgilphead

Ps I remember posts indicating Arran is a bit unwelcoming to "wild camping"..
Views on that appreciated please.


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

On Arran you are spoilt for wild camping spots.
Heres what we do when we go over in the ferry three or four times a year.

First the breakfast on the ferry is fairly good and it sets you up.
At £7.95 inc coffee or tea its certainly no rip off.
Get a copy of the bus time tables from the ferry.
Brodick has a Coop supermarket, which is the largest on the island.

When you get off the ferry head north drive through Corrie and head for Sannox.
About half a mile past sannox on your right you will see a sign for pony trekking.
Take the single track road for about 1/3rd of a mile and you will come to the forresty commission carpark, with stunning views across the firth of Clyde to Bute and Cumbrae.
If you are feeling active from there there is a fine coastal walk to the fallen stones, or if you are up for it walk all the way to Lagg Cottage.
If you are really up for it you can walk all the way to Lochranza and then return using the bus.

Next head north to Lochranza, you will find somewhere to park up during the day.
There is a lay-by next to the church, but at night the carpark for the ferry to claonaig is empty and you can park up there.

Next head south about 4 miles to Thundergay. There is an excellent lay bye on your right about 200 yards before you come to the houses of mid thundergay,
From there you can walk up to a beautiful spot with a lochin called fionann lochan. some go for a swim.

Next head further south to Blackwaterfoot were you can empty your toilet and get fresh water at the public toilets, and maybe pop into the hotel for a coffee or a meal.

Then head further south to Kildonnan and stunning views towards Pladda lighthouse and Paddys milestone out in the Irish Sea.
There is a campsite here if you fancy some hook up etc.
There are a few places for you to pull in.

Then head west to Whting bay, but you will go through a lovely village called Lagg.
You can pop into Lagg hotel for a coffee and cake or whatever takes your fancy.

Whiting bay also has a chemical waste point behind the public toilet.
Its a lovely spot to go for a walk.

Next head for Kerr point, my post below covers this stop.

Next its back to Brodick and the ferry home.

If you are feeling fit Goat Fell at 2866 ft is a tough but rewarding mountain.
On a clear day you get fantastic views across the island, and you can see Northern Ireland.
You can do it from Brodick or from Corrie.
I prefer Corrie its more direct.

Enjoy and here my post from last year. 


Many moons ago as a wide eyed legless teenager, I traveled for the first time to the Isle of Arran in the firth of Clyde. I was the product of the Glasgow tenements, sandstone buildings that enveloped Glasgow like a shrine to its Victorian past. Then Glasgow had a population of around a million, it had fallen from 1.2 million after developments in Cumbernauld, East Kilbride, Livingston, and Irvine new town. Also many living in Glasgow’s centre had been rehoused in developments on its outskirts in places such as, easterhouse and drumchapel.

Well I lived close to the city centre, and like many at that time I had not ventured far beyond my home place, I had never seen a place like Arran before, it took my breath away. Large Forrests, mountains, farming land, and the sea surrounded the island reminding me there was only one way to arrive and depart from here, by the cal Mac ferry from ardrossan.

My first visit took me three miles south on foot to Lamlash. I will never forget my first sighting of lamlash bay with the holy isle neatly positioned in its bay, a gift of nature with its summit the mullach mor standing proud reaching for the clouds at over 900 feet in height. This place has history, it used to be a sanctuary for the Royal Navy. It’s from here that winston Churchill’s wish to send the troops to Northern Ireland to force the north to live within a united Ireland was refused. You can still see the remnants of two navy observation points clinging on to the side of the hillside.

I have seen, grey and common seals, otters, dolphins, various birds of prey, oyster catchers, Herons, cormoronts and red deer here. 

The poi I enjoy visiting is an ad hoc carpark in the adjoining village of marganaheglish. You have the luxury of waste bins, two pick nick benches and two commemorative benches in a rural carpark large enough for about 5-6 vans.

From here you can do a coastal walk to Arran’s main village Brodick, or roam the clauchland hills.
Or take a walk along the coastline past the many splendid homes of Margnaheglish, from there into Lamlash.
Enjoy a beer and a meal at the Peirhead Inn in Lamlash.
Or you can simply sit on one of the benches and take in the beauty of this place.

If you are looking for a more energetic break you can do the Arran coastal walk (59miles) I have done this twice and it’s a fantastic walk. You can base yourself in Brodick and use the local buses to get you back each day then return you to where you left of the day before, till you have completed the route.
Or you can climb Arran’s highest mountain Goat Fell 2866 ft, on a clear day you can see Northern Ireland.
Or walk through glen Sannox up over the saddle into the beautiful glen Rosa and back to Brodick.
Simply get the bus from Brodick to Sannox then commence your 10 mile hike.

If you fancy a trip to the holy isle you can get a boat from Lamlash and spend the day on the island.
The island is owned by a religious sect who are very welcoming to visitors.
You can walk to the top of the island and reach the summit the mullach mor and enjoy a 360o seascape.

Arran is generally welcoming to visitors with Motorhomes, and there are plenty of places to visit.
The west side of the island is very quiet and the views over the kilbrannan sound to kintyre are wonderful, particularly on a clear night, when the sun sets in the West,

To get to my favourite poi when you get of the ferry from ardrossan drive 3 miles south to Lamlash then on arrival immediately take the left turn into marganaheglish. You will see signs for the hospital. Drive along the road for 1.5 miles till you come to the end. The carpark is on your right. 

The ferry takes 55 minutes and two adults and a mh less than 6m costs £47 return.
The ferry is subsidised by the Scottish government using its road tariff equivalent scheme.
This scheme now applies to all of Scotland’s islands appart from the Orkney and Shetland’s. But plans are afoot to include them in the near future.

So the poi on Arran’s marganaheglish is my favourite poi to date, what’s yours.


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## jagmanx (Mar 23, 2019)

*Thank you*



Fisherman said:


> On Arran you are spoilt for wild camping spots.
> Heres what we do when we go over in the ferry three or four times a year.
> 
> First the breakfast on the ferry is fairly good and it sets you up.
> ...



Thankyou very much .....That is really helpful.
I went to Arran on a walking Hostelling trip Many many many even many moons ago (40 ish)
We stayed @ Lochranza and walked up Goat Fell and others.
It will be good to go back and spend maybe a week on Arran before crossing westerly from Lochranza


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

jagmanx said:


> I am considering similar
> Ardrossan to Brodick (ferry)
> Tour Arran
> Lochranza to Claonaig (ferry)
> ...



I have never found Arran unwelcoming.
Once you head out from Brodick you will find plenty of places to stop over without upsetting the locals,
The west side of the island is very quiet.

I don’t spend any time in Brodick, other than to go to the coop and Arran outdoors which sells outdoor equipment and clothing. If your van is 6 m or less you can park face in towards the pavement, if longer you need to park parallel to the pavement.


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## rab126 (Mar 23, 2019)

a very eloquent post fisherman but it just goes  to show that one mans meat is anothers poison, as i type this i look out the widow and see Arran across the bay and i have no intention or wish to go there, I find the islanders money grabbing and rude, and a lot of the people who have holiday homes do not want the island full of motor-homes ( a recent conversation), however you are correct if you go to the parts of the island where there is no one around you can find peace and tranquillity and awesome views, but i'm sorry the people are the problem

nice to look at though its in my avatar

rab


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

rab126 said:


> a very eloquent post fisherman but it just goes  to show that one mans meat is anothers poison, as i type this i look out the widow and see Arran across the bay and i have no intention or wish to go there, I find the islanders money grabbing and rude, and a lot of the people who have holiday homes do not want the island full of motor-homes ( a recent conversation), however you are correct if you go to the parts of the island where there is no one around you can find peace and tranquillity and awesome views, but i'm sorry the people are the problem
> 
> nice to look at though its in my avatar
> 
> rab



There are a small amount of idiots who primarily live in Brodick who talk of being inundated with Motorhomes. I had a wee chat with one two years ago. He told me that the island was plagued by Motorhomes. I have a good friend who works for cal Mac, and he told me that on that day there were around 20 Motorhomes on the island. Arran has a road network of around 100 miles that works out at one for every five miles. My philosophy is simple arrive in Brodick do what you have to, then get out of the place.

Most arraners have no problems with Motorhomes, and Arran is one of the few places to provide chemical waste points and fresh water for free. I have heard that calmac are putting one at the ferry terminal. This would mean there would be three with whiting bay and blackwaterfoot also having cwps. The council have looked into putting one in Lochranza, but the problem is they only have septic tanks on that part of the island.
But this only serves to underline not only a problem here but uk wide.
In the last three years I have paid around £20,000 in vat purchasing two Motorhomes.
Then there’s road tax, fuel duty, and the business we give to others like insurance companies, break down recovery etc. We spent around £400 on the island last year on outdoor clothing, and food.

This country does not have a problem with Motorhomes, it has far less per capita than most EU countries.
The problem is the narrow minded individuals who pester their councils into putting up barriers and no overnight parking signs. And successive governments who are more than happy to take our money whilst spending none of it on providing us with what we require.


It’s a shame you won’t go over to Arran, it has much to offer considerate Motorhome owners.


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## Deleted member 58330 (Mar 23, 2019)

I have wilded there and stayed in the campsite near lochranza.  very nice.  Pretty easy, not a lot of spots though as well used as the MH population grows. Been twice but will not do it again as too many MHs about and the roads are not looked after.  Ripped a tyre last time.


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

MidAgeTraveller said:


> I have wilded there and stayed in the campsite near lochranza.  very nice.  Pretty easy, not a lot of spots though as well used as the MH population grows. Been twice but will not do it again as too many MHs about and the roads are not looked after.  Ripped a tyre last time.



They spent over £2 million on the roads last year.
Large sections of the road between Sannox and Lochranza being widened and the whole section re surfaced.

The roads are narrow on Arran particularly the west part of the island. But I have driven from pirnmil to blackwaterfoot without seeing another vehicle of any description.

I have driven worse roads on the mainland than those on Arran.
In comparison to roads on other islands such as Mull, and Islay, I think Arrans roads are a lot better.

Can I ask how you ripped a tyre.

Here’s an article from last year 

Our Distillery & Visitor will be open again to welcome visitors from Saturday 3rd February 2018 and we are looking forward to welcoming everyone once again through our doors!

If you are planning to pay us a visit, we'd like to make sure that you are aware of some of the roadworks that are currently underway on the island.  You will need to plan your journey a little more and leave some extra time (approx an extra 30 mins) for your journey up to Lochranza.

North Ayrshire Council are currently working on carriageway resurfacing and widening on the A841 Bogullie (Sannox to Lochranza, near Witches Bridge.)  Contractors are working 7 days a week.

The road will be closed 09:15 - 16:30 daily with traffic signals being in place overnight in the interests of public safety. These works commenced on 29th January and are anticipated to be completed by 23rd March 2018.

For those coming from Brodick Pier, the journey from Brodick to Lochranza via Sannox and Corrie on the A841 would normally take approx. 30-35 mins in a car, however this route will not be available during these works.

The alternative route is the B880 String Road from Brodick which takes you at out at Machrie and round to Lochranza, approaching it from the opposite direction.  This takes approx. 50 minutes in a car.

As an exception, the Lochranza closure will not be in force on Saturday 3rd and Sunday 4th February due to the String (B880) works. 
The B880 String, Glenshurig, Isle of Arran, North Ayrshire will be closed from 08:30 hours to 16:30 hours daily on Sat 3rd February 2018 and Sun 4th February 2018.


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## Jeff G (Mar 23, 2019)

_ 'And successive governments who are more than happy to take our money whilst spending none of it on providing us with what we require.'_

Certainly true of Mull.I hope they dont include the Shetlands in RET...a fantastic place and my new favourite Scottish isle and very welcoming to m/h's and fantastic facilities all over the mainland and the surrounding islands and would hate to see the goodwill from the islanders lost and  spoilt by the inconsiderate few.Keep it expensive and keep away the riff raff would be my policy if i were a Shetlander.


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> _ 'And successive governments who are more than happy to take our money whilst spending none of it on providing us with what we require.'_



And Jeff,


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## Jeff G (Mar 23, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> And Jeff,




and as above


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> and as above



Sorry Jeff I don’t understand.

You merely copied what I posted with no comment whatsoever.


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## Jeff G (Mar 23, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> Sorry Jeff I don’t understand.
> 
> You merely copied what I posted with no comment whatsoever.



Lol,you were too quick,i'm not used to the quote malarkey and saved your quote then had to go back in into edit mode to add my comment.I was commenting on how Mull get millions each year from tourism but never seem to put anything back into the infrastructure,no 1 issue being the roads.


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> Lol,you were too quick,i'm not used to the quote malarkey and saved your quote then had to go back in into edit mode to add my comment.I was commenting on how Mull get millions each year from tourism but never seem to put anything back into the infrastructure,no 1 issue being the roads.



The biggest problem on Mull is road between Salen and Tobermory.
Most of this is single track which is fine for the rest of the island with very low amounts of traffic.
I prefer single track roads with plenty of passing places to narrow two way roads such as the Loch Lomond road north of Tarbert. I have driven that road plenty of times and have had to stop on two occasions on bends to pass HGV vehicles.

Also last time I was on the island there were a few Motorhomes in Tobermory, with the ledaig carpark having have a dozen or so parked there. But the big problem is the lack of chemical waste points. I have heard that plans are afoot to improve this situation. Mull is a beautiful island let’s keep it that way.

We are planning a week on Tiree this summer, and have booked a pitch on a Croft on the island.


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> _ 'And successive governments who are more than happy to take our money whilst spending none of it on providing us with what we require.'_
> 
> Certainly true of Mull.I hope they dont include the Shetlands in RET...a fantastic place and my new favourite Scottish isle and very welcoming to m/h's and fantastic facilities all over the mainland and the surrounding islands and would hate to see the goodwill from the islanders lost and  spoilt by the inconsiderate few.Keep it expensive and keep away the riff raff would be my policy if i were a Shetlander.



I think that eventually it will, and the Shetland islanders are campaigning for it Jeff.

The orkneys will be part of RET this year I think, possibly someone else has information.

What I would say Jeff is it’s a long way away, and I don’t think even with RET, that the Shetland isles will ever be as busy as those already covered. I was on Lewis and Harris last year it’s covered by RET, and I did not find to many Motorhomes there, and the locals were very welcoming.


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

Have a look at this Jeff


MSP calls for greater urgency over introduction of road equivalent tariff on Orkney ferries
 by Chris MacLennan
 October 15, 2018, 5:15 am
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Orkney’s MSP, Liam McArthur, has voiced concerns at the lack of urgency the Scottish Government has shown in introducing a Road Equivalent Tariff (RET) on Orkney ferry routes.

The initiative, which was rolled out to services in the Hebrides a decade ago, was due to be delivered to the northern isle routes by the end of June.

Fresh delays have been encountered as a complaint has been made to the European Commission in regards to the Scottish Government’s plans to reduce ferry fares to Orkney.

In a written letter to the Orkney MSP, minister for Energy, Connectivity and the Islands, Paul Wheelhouse informed Mr McArthur that the Scottish Government remains committed to introducing RET to Orkney and Shetland, despite only being able to reduce fares for passengers travelling to and from Shetland by 20%.

Mr McArthur said: “The ongoing delay in introducing RET on Northern Isles ferry routes means that those using these lifeline services are being forced to continue paying over the odds.

“In light of that fact, people in Orkney and Shetland have every right to expect the Scottish Government to be straining every sinew to find a resolution to the impasse with Pentland Ferries.

“The Minister’s latest response to the representations that Tavish Scott and I have been making on this issue, however, displays a worrying lack of urgency.

“Almost four months on from the planned introduction of RET on Orkney and Shetland routes, the government still appears to be dithering over ‘options available’.

“Orkney’s exclusion from the government’s cheaper ferry fares scheme has gone on for a decade and more.

“It is long past time for a greater sense of urgency.”


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## caledonia (Mar 23, 2019)

The toilets at Sannox are now locked because of Motorhomes emptying toilet cassettes and the locals are very nimby. I think the toilets are closed at Blackwater foot also. It’s a shame as it used to be a nice wee island. I thinks it’s because it’s only a wee place and doesn’t take a lot of vans to make it look busy.


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## Jeff G (Mar 23, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> The biggest problem on Mull is road between Salen and Tobermory.
> Most of this is single track which is fine for the rest of the island with very low amounts of traffic.
> I prefer single track roads with plenty of passing places to narrow two way roads such as the Loch Lomond road north of Tarbert. I have driven that road plenty of times and have had to stop on two occasions on bends to pass HGV vehicles.
> 
> ...



The road surface to Fionnphort i find is truly awful,coupled with quite heavy traffic considering,especially in the summer when there are coaches racing backwards and forwards to Iona.Another gripe is the lack of places to pull off the road and take a photo or admire the view with the result that people use the passing places which in turn pees off the locals(rightly so) but these people are on holiday and would like a photo momento of a place they may never see again.They could and should be doing so much more.

The lack of cwp's is as you say pretty poor.On Shetland all the harbours are motorhome friendly with hook ups and emptying points and you can use their showers.Great set up over there.

The  Lomond to Tarbet section is awful,nearly lost the back of a caravan to a logging truck ,the drivers of which take no prisoners


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## Jeff G (Mar 23, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> Have a look at this Jeff
> 
> 
> MSP calls for greater urgency over introduction of road equivalent tariff on Orkney ferries
> ...




It must surely come and rightly so for the residents at the very least,just praying a truly great place doesnt get screwed.


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> The road surface to Fionnphort i find is truly awful,coupled with quite heavy traffic considering,especially in the summer when there are coaches racing backwards and forwards to Iona.Another gripe is the lack of places to pull off the road and take a photo or admire the view with the result that people use the passing places which in turn pees off the locals(rightly so) but these people are on holiday and would like a photo momento of a place they may never see again.They could and should be doing so much more.
> 
> The lack of cwp's is as you say pretty poor.On Shetland all the harbours are motorhome friendly with hook ups and emptying points and you can use their showers.Great set up over there.
> 
> The  Lomond to Tarbet section is awful,nearly lost the back of a caravan to a logging truck ,the drivers of which take no prisoners



Hi Jeff, it’s not Motorhomes that are causing the problems on the islands it’s simply due to RET the amount of cars has increased. On average when we travel to Arran there are about two or three Motorhomes and around 80 cars. But yes the road to Fionnphort was poor last time I used it.


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## Jeff G (Mar 23, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> Hi Jeff, it’s not Motorhomes that are causing the problems on the islands it’s simply due to RET the amount of cars has increased. On average when we travel to Arran there are about two or three Motorhomes and around 80 cars. But yes the road to Fionnphort was poor last time I used it.



Yeah i can understand it,in the past people would have come over as a foot passenger but now use their car.Wonder if the bus company that runs all the tours has taken a massive hit.

We used to see the locals go over as foot passengers with their wheeled luggage to shop at Aldi ect,now they can use their own cars.Since the cost of deliveries has decreased,has the food costs gone down?,,,Doubt it but you never know


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

caledonia said:


> The toilets at Sannox are now locked because of Motorhomes emptying toilet cassettes and the locals are very nimby. I think the toilets are closed at Blackwater foot also. It’s a shame as it used to be a nice wee island. I thinks it’s because it’s only a wee place and doesn’t take a lot of vans to make it look busy.



In 2017 all nine public toilets on Arran were closed by the council in an attempt to save £35,000 a year maintaining them. To my knowledge the toilets at whiting bay, blackwaterfoot, Lochranza, and Brodick were taken over and reopened by the locals. The chemical waste points at whiting bay and blackwaterfoot are to this day still being maintained by the council and are available for use.

I don’t think the toilets at Sannox have been available since closure in 2017, I may be wrong there, but I pretty sure I am right.

Here’s an article on the situation 


Views but no loos: Closure of public toilets is putting a strain on island life
By David Ross
Views but no loos: Closure of public toilets is putting a strain on island life
Views but no loos: Closure of public toilets is putting a strain on island life
       3 comments

IT is one of Scotland’s most popular tourist destinations and welcomes around a million visitors every year.

But the island of Arran is facing a looming crisis during this year’s peak tourist season because of the closure of all the public toilets, forcing visitors to use those in local businesses.

North Ayrshire Council recently announced it would close all Arran’s nine public loos to save £35,000 a year.

Now an online petition with approaching 2,000 signatures has been set up to reverse the decision which has left many visitors no choice but to use local pubs, hotels and cafes which is causing severe disruption to customers and owners.


Barbara Crawford who runs the Kinloch Hotel in Blackwaterfoot, on the west side of Arran said the hotel’s footfall had increased dramatically, without any corresponding increase in business: She said: “The public toilets are now padlocked in the village, and the only places for the public to go here is our hotel and the golf course. But all the tour buses stop outside the hotel and they are now coming in to use our toilets. The number using them is now unbelievable: families, young people, all sorts.

“We certainly had over 100 at Easter weekend. You don’t want to refuse them, but they don’t ask anyway. We phoned the council and they said just to tell them not to use them. It’s terrible. This is supposed to be a holiday island.”

Under a Community Asset Transfer scheme, ownership of the public toilets at Kilmory, Whiting Bay, Sandbraes and Glen Sannox is set to pass to local organisations.

But no community agreement has been struck Lochranza or Lamlash and their toilets have now closed.

So have those at Brodick Green, though the public can access the nearby facilities in Brodick Hall during opening hours. The toilets at North Sannox have been been decommissioned because of their age and condition.

It comes as cheaper ferry fares have significantly boosted the number of visitors to Arran. A recent report evaluation found the introduction of the road equivalent tariff in 2014 has had a bigger impact on the island than any other to which Clyde and Hebridean Ferry Services sail.


The scheme, which bases fares on the cost of travelling the equivalent distance by road, cut the price of tickets on the Ardrossan to Brodick and Claonaig to Lochranza routes by as much as 65 per cent.

But some retail businesses have also reported a decline in customers and turnover as a result of people travelling off-island for shopping. Now business owners say the problem has been exacerbated by the public toilet closures.

Pierhead Tavern in Lamlash owner Jane Howe told the local newspaper The Arran Banner she was at her “wits end” as staff had to clean the toilets continually due to the numbers using them.

The paper has been full of letters, many from visitors. One from Wiltshire said Arran could be “one of the most beautiful destinations in the British Isles. However, the lack of public toilets relegates Arran to the second division of destinations....”

Jim Bannatyne, added: “I live near Blackwaterfoot and I can see people going up the riverside to relieve themselves. It is a disgrace. The island has been progressing well with the tourist industry benefitting from the cheap ferry fares introduced by the Scottish Government’s road equivalent tariff. So this is a bit of an embarrassment. The local toilet is closed, even to disabled people.”


A North Ayrshire Council spokesman said: “We have had to find £73 million of savings since 2010 which means that difficult decisions have to be made.”

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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> Yeah i can understand it,in the past people would have come over as a foot passenger but now use their car.Wonder if the bus company that runs all the tours has taken a massive hit.
> 
> We used to see the locals go over as foot passengers with their wheeled luggage to shop at Aldi ect,now they can use their own cars.Since the cost of deliveries has decreased,has the food costs gone down?,,,Doubt it but you never know



We bought a 200g jar of Nescafé gold in Brodick last year for £4.50. It was selling for £6.95 in our local Asda.


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## caledonia (Mar 23, 2019)

I like Mull for the wildlife and don’t mind paying to stay at Fidden Farm campsite and exploring from there.


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

caledonia said:


> The toilets at Sannox are now locked because of Motorhomes emptying toilet cassettes and the locals are very nimby. I think the toilets are closed at Blackwater foot also. It’s a shame as it used to be a nice wee island. I thinks it’s because it’s only a wee place and doesn’t take a lot of vans to make it look busy.



I can confirm that the toilets at Sannox were not closed due to misuse by Motorhomes.
They were actually decommissioned in 2016 due to their state of disrepair.
The council would have had to spend around £50,000 to bring them up to standard.
However there are plans to replace them with Porta cabin toilets when funds are available.
The other 8 toilets were closed by the council, to save money.

Also the toilets at blackwaterfoot are now opened and available for use.
They reopened last year after being taken over by the local community.

Most important for us, is the two chemical waste points have never been affected by any of this, and have continued to be financed and maintained by Aran council.

There have been problems with the toilets at Brodick next to the beech with Motorhomes emptying their cassettes there, and general vandalism by others. These toilets are still open and available to the public. But to be honest I was inside them last year and they were filthy with no toilet paper or handwash.

But I have heard that calmac are considering fitting a chemical waste point at the ferry terminal, as they have done on other islands. Nothing definite though.

I just got this information by email


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## Jeff G (Mar 23, 2019)

caledonia said:


> I like Mull for the wildlife and don’t mind paying to stay at Fidden Farm campsite and exploring from there.



Love Fidden,we tend to stay to the eastern side though for  the WTE's.


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## caledonia (Mar 23, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> Love Fidden,we tend to stay to the eastern side though for  the WTE's.



They are awesome birds and one of the reasons I like Fidden. The sunsets are amazing and it very atmospheric when everyone gathers on the beach to watch it. Great for canoeing and just chillaxing.


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

caledonia said:


> They are awesome birds and one of the reasons I like Fidden. The sunsets are amazing and it very atmospheric when everyone gathers on the beach to watch it. Great for canoeing and just chillaxing.



That sounds great will have to try it out.
Love Iona and Staffa also


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## Jeff G (Mar 23, 2019)

Always enjoy the walk to Erraid,tide permitting


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> Always enjoy the walk to Erraid,tide permitting



Jeff have you been to Staffa, it’s stunning.

I had seen it many times on photographs, but it’s far more stunning than any photo.


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## Jeff G (Mar 23, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> Jeff have you been to Staffa, it’s stunning.
> 
> I had seen it many times on photographs, but it’s far more stunning than any photo.



Yes mate,went on the Treshnish/Staffa boat tour.It was a glorious weather as well.Worth every penny.Nearly stood on a Puffin as it came out of its nest.Really not fazed by people


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## Fisherman (Mar 23, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> Yes mate,went on the Treshnish/Staffa boat tour.It was a glorious weather as well.Worth every penny.Nearly stood on a Puffin as it came out of its nest.Really not fazed by people



Good, it’s a wonderful sight when you look at it from the boat.
 how about the isle of may in the Firth of Forth.
You go from anstruther, you have to book online in advance.
You get 4 hours on the island 
It’s a great day out, and there’s a great wild camping spot in cellardyke about a mile away.
You will see puffins, gilliemotts, gannets, and more than I can mention.
Also Scotland’s oldest light house, and Scotland’s loudest compressed air foghorns, unfortunately they have not worked since the 80s.

Finnin farm is on my to do list now


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## jagmanx (Mar 24, 2019)

*We can choose our time*

June or July (or August)

I guess midges will be about..
So when to avoid the main season please ?


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

jagmanx said:


> June or July (or August)
> 
> I guess midges will be about..
> So when to avoid the main season please ?



They normally kick of middle of May till late September.
But the horsefles ( cleggs) can be worse on certain parts of Arran.
Last year was the best year I have ever seen for the lack of midges.
They are worse at sunrise and sunset.


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## caledonia (Mar 24, 2019)

jagmanx said:


> June or July (or August)
> 
> I guess midges will be about..
> So when to avoid the main season please ?



Was at Fort William yesterday and there was midges about already . Must be the mild weather we’ve been having.


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## jagmanx (Mar 24, 2019)

*Yes midges everwhere BUT...*

What I intended to ask was.."When is the best time to go to Arran to miss the main tourist season"

Late may is the earliest we can go..or we could delay to mid July onwards
With other Scottish delights planned we will probably tour for 1 month

I note Calmac do a Hopscotch
Arran and Kintyre | Hopscotch | CalMac Ferries

Still "Mulling it over" !


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## Jeff G (Mar 24, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> Good, it’s a wonderful sight when you look at it from the boat.
> how about the isle of may in the Firth of Forth.
> You go from anstruther, you have to book online in advance.
> You get 4 hours on the island
> ...



Saw my first Dolphins on our Isle of May visit whilst enjoying a trip to Edinburgh then up into Fife and beyond.Best part of three dry weeks.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

Jeff G said:


> Saw my first Dolphins on our Isle of May visit whilst enjoying a trip to Edinburgh then up into Fife and beyond.Best part of three dry weeks.



I thought the foghorn set up covering both sides of the island was amazing.
I was surprised at the amount of buildings there.
The birds were amazing, I got some great photos.
The eider ducks just lying on the grass just looked up at you.

Fantastic trip really enjoyed it Jeff.

My sister wants to visit st kilda.
We planned a trip from Skye last year.
We got all of the way to uig only to find that the weather beat us.
Maybe this year.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

jagmanx said:


> What I intended to ask was.."When is the best time to go to Arran to miss the main tourist season"
> 
> Late may is the earliest we can go..or we could delay to mid July onwards
> With other Scottish delights planned we will probably tour for 1 month
> ...



I am going over in May, July, and then September.
I have never had a problem with any tourist season.
I don’t agree with some of the comments on here regarding to many Motorhomes.
In the summer there may be 20-30 on the island and some of them head for the two main campsite at Lochranza and kildonnan. Not every Motorhomer wild camps on the island. 
Lochranza, whiting bay, Lamlash and blackwaterfoot can get a bit busy but not as busy as a mainland seaside resort. They are all worth a visit. At night many leave the island heading home on the ferry only staying for the day.

The west side of the island is really nice, you get amazing sunsets over kintyre, and it’s quieter.

Don’t worry to much about when you visit, but do book your ferry tickets well in advance 


Ferries to Scotland & Scottish Isles | Caledonian MacBrayne | CalMac Ferries


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## jagmanx (Mar 24, 2019)

*Thanks again Bill*

Don’t worry to much about when you visit, but do book your ferry tickets well in advance 


Ferries to Scotland & Scottish Isles | Caledonian MacBrayne | CalMac Ferries[/QUOTE]

In one sense that is the final tick in the box..
It is just a matter of how we might fit it in.

Useful what you post about booking....
I have emailed Calmac asking them if I need to book


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

jagmanx said:


> Don’t worry to much about when you visit, but do book your ferry tickets well in advance
> 
> 
> Ferries to Scotland & Scottish Isles | Caledonian MacBrayne | CalMac Ferries



In one sense that is the final tick in the box..
It is just a matter of how we might fit it in.

Useful what you post about booking....
I have emailed Calmac asking them if I need to book[/QUOTE]

Yes you have to.

And the ferry to claonaig is a very small ferry.
It can only take about ten cars.
Our van is 6m and it cost only £47 return for us inc passengers.


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## groyne (Mar 24, 2019)

> Useful what you post about booking....
> I have emailed Calmac asking them if I need to book



We did a few of the west coast islands last August, including Arran and Mull. We didn't book any ferries, just turned up. The only ferry we couldn't get on was Malaig to Skye (it was the last of the day, and next available was about lunch time next day), but the weather was turning anyway, so we headed over to the east coast. That's the beauty of motorhoming.

We also did the Mull of Kintyre and went to the lighthouse, the last few miles of road where very bumpy, but they don't like us there.


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## jagmanx (Mar 24, 2019)

*Mmmn !*



groyne said:


> We did a few of the west coast islands last August, including Arran and Mull. We didn't book any ferries, just turned up. The only ferry we couldn't get on was Malaig to Skye (it was the last of the day, and next available was about lunch time next day), but the weather was turning anyway, so we headed over to the east coast. That's the beauty of motorhoming.
> 
> We also did the Mull of Kintyre and went to the lighthouse, the last few miles of road where very bumpy, but they don't like us there.
> 
> View attachment 70328



So maybe not there !


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

groyne said:


> We did a few of the west coast islands last August, including Arran and Mull. We didn't book any ferries, just turned up. The only ferry we couldn't get on was Malaig to Skye (it was the last of the day, and next available was about lunch time next day), but the weather was turning anyway, so we headed over to the east coast. That's the beauty of motorhoming.
> 
> We also did the Mull of Kintyre and went to the lighthouse, the last few miles of road where very bumpy, but they don't like us there.
> 
> View attachment 70328



We have seen car drivers not being able to get on board, being told they can only get a later ferry that day if someone does not turn up.
If you book and can't make it, they will allocate another ferry for you no problems.
Also make sure you turn up half an hour before the sailing.
Calmac have been known too give someone else your place if you are a bit late.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

groyne said:


> We did a few of the west coast islands last August, including Arran and Mull. We didn't book any ferries, just turned up. The only ferry we couldn't get on was Malaig to Skye (it was the last of the day, and next available was about lunch time next day), but the weather was turning anyway, so we headed over to the east coast. That's the beauty of motorhoming.
> 
> We also did the Mull of Kintyre and went to the lighthouse, the last few miles of road where very bumpy, but they don't like us there.
> 
> View attachment 70328



Its really sad, in Europe you would have somewhere to park up, but not in this country.

As I have said previously, those that put these signs up are only too glad to take our money, but not willing to spend any on us.
Were does all of the VAT go when we buy our vans:mad2:


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## 2cv (Mar 24, 2019)

Problem is that whilst the great majority would just park up and leave no trace of their visit, there is a small minority who will affect others visiting by for example setting up camp with chairs and awnings out, lighting fires or running generators. The actions of these few mean restrictions to all.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

2cv said:


> Problem is that whilst the great majority would just park up and leave no trace of their visit, there is a small minority who will affect others visiting by for example setting up camp with chairs and awnings out, lighting fires or running generators. The actions of these few mean restrictions to all.



So what happens in Europe, Canada, the US, New Zealand, Australia and many other parts of the world.

They don’t penalise law abiding tax paying members of their countries, because of a few idiots.
I bet you any money if you went to that carpark on a Sunday morning you would find litter strewn all over it by the boy racers who continue to abuse these car parks at all hours.

Many of the problems, are actually the result of a lack of facilities, creating areas that are overused. And reading posts on here it’s set to get worse.


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## 2cv (Mar 24, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> *So what happens in Europe, Canada, the US, New Zealand, Australia and many other parts of the world.*
> 
> They don’t penalise law abiding tax paying members of their countries, because of a few idiots.
> I bet you any money if you went to that carpark on a Sunday morning you would find litter strewn all over it by the boy racers who continue to abuse these car parks at all hours.
> ...



Elsewhere these things are dealt with differently. For example the differentiation between parking and camping is adhered to in some countries even with legal definitions of each. Law enforcement varies also, with very heavy penalties enforced for littering in some places.
Better facilities would help, but it should be remembered that there are hundreds of small sites for those who wish to set up camp as opposed to parking for a night.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

2cv said:


> Elsewhere these things are dealt with differently. For example the differentiation between parking and camping is adhered to in some countries even with legal definitions of each. Law enforcement varies also, with very heavy penalties enforced for littering in some places.
> Better facilities would help, but it should be remembered that there are hundreds of small sites for those who wish to set up camp as opposed to parking for a night.



2cv, if you are referring to CLs, most of them are booked weeks in advance.
Some of the caravan and motorhome sites are booked a year in advance.

The fact remains, if the Mull of Kintyre was in any of the countries I listed I have no doubt you would have somewhere to go.

Attitudes in this country are abysmal, penalising people like you and I, who have worked all our lives, paid all our taxes, and get treated like this by councils who are only to glad to take our money.

Someone on here (I think it was Channa) worked out that we contribute 1.5-2 billion a year to our economy, were does all of that money go 2cv.

Also we pay a lot more for our vans than caravans, to give us that freedom, for it to be removed by such action.


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## caledonia (Mar 24, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> So what happens in Europe, Canada, the US, New Zealand, Australia and many other parts of the world.
> 
> They don’t penalise law abiding tax paying members of their countries, because of a few idiots.
> I bet you any money if you went to that carpark on a Sunday morning you would find litter strewn all over it by the boy racers who continue to abuse these car parks at all hours.
> ...



Europe, Canada, New Zealand have got nothing to do with a small island like Arran. 
The boy racers you dislike grow up and hire or buy campervans then continue to throw rubbish in the bushes and sh1t behind the nearest tree spoiling it for you and I. Go to any spot frequented by Motorhomes and you’ll see toilet paper and worse. Loch Morlich is a good example. As you say things are getting worse hence the problems on Arran.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

caledonia said:


> Europe, Canada, New Zealand have got nothing to do with a small island like Arran.
> The boy racers you dislike grow up and hire or buy campervans then continue to throw rubbish in the bushes and sh1t behind the nearest tree spoiling it for you and I. Go to any spot frequented by Motorhomes and you’ll see toilet paper and worse. Loch Morlich is a good example. As you say things are getting worse hence the problems on Arran.



I never knew the mull of kintyre was on arran.

I am talking about the whole of the UK.

And I don't have or ever have had any problems on Arran.


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## caledonia (Mar 24, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> I never knew the mull of kintyre was on arran.
> 
> I am talking about the whole of the UK.
> 
> And I don't have or ever have had any problems on Arran.



Arran isn’t on the Mull of Kintyre and I never said it was. It’s not you that’s having problems on Arran it’s the locals that have the problem with inconsiderate Motorhomes and the amount that visit.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

caledonia said:


> Arran isn’t on the Mull of Kintyre and I never said it was. It’s not you that’s having problems on Arran it’s the locals that have the problem with inconsiderate Motorhomes and the amount that visit.




Does that include Sannox and blackwaterfoot were you told us all on here yesterday that the toilets were closed due to us emptying our cassettes in the toilets, when the toilets in Sannox were actually decommissioned  3 years ago due to lack of maintenance, and the toilet in blackwaterfoot was closed by the council to save money, which has now been reopened by the locals and available for use. Nothing to do whatsoever with us emptying our cassettes. And why would anyone empty a cassette in the toilet at blackwaterfoot when it has a chemical waste point.

Do you just make it up as you go along Caledonia.


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## caledonia (Mar 24, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> Does that include Sannox and blackwaterfoot were you told us all on here yesterday that the toilets were closed due to us emptying our cassettes in the toilets, when the toilets in Sannox were actually decommissioned  3 years ago due to lack of maintenance, and the toilet in blackwaterfoot was closed by the council to save money, which has now been reopened by the locals and available for use. Nothing to do whatsoever with us emptying our cassettes. And why would anyone empty a cassette in the toilet at blackwaterfoot when it has a chemical waste point.
> 
> Do you just make it up as you go along Caledonia.



You stick to your rose tinted glasses and I will stick to making things up as I go along. . I know the locals on Arran don’t want us there so will spend my time elsewhere. Enjoy your time on Arran.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

caledonia said:


> You stick to your rose tinted glasses and I will stick to making things up as I go along. ��. I know the locals on Arran don’t want us there so will spend my time elsewhere. Enjoy your time on Arran. ��



You never answered the question Caledonia.
Why did you state on here that we emptied cassettes into the toilets in Sannox and blackwaterfoot.
When clearly that was a complete pack of lies, made up on a whim to prove your point.
let's face it you would just love that to be the case, as you have nothing but contempt for us.
as you have shown on here over the years.

Also you go on about the locals complaining about us.

Arran has a population of just over 5000, to date the council have received complaints from 12 arraners, and 8 of them live In Brodick.

I love Arran, and I go there three or four times a year.
I don’t spend a night in Brodick, I stay in parts that are void of residents, and I have never had a problem. 
There are plenty of quiet parts to park up, no need whatsoever to park in front of homes etc..

And yes I will enjoy my three visits this year.

It’s a shame that you and others have decided to avoid what is a good wild camping environment.


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## jagmanx (Mar 24, 2019)

*Surely Arran*

And more rely on Tourism.

Yes because we have our own accommodation we probably contribute to the economy less Than those who stay in Hotels etc.
But we but food drink and eat in Pubs etc
As has been posted the closure of public toilets is a health hazard (as on Skye) and forces normal tourists to (mis-use) facilities in Cafes etc..
I say mis-use as the cafe owner has to pay for maintenance of the facilities  and council tax and they should only be use by patrons.
Yes toilets are expensive to maintain.
However the alternative is to go "Continental" and piss and shit in car-parks
A) see the post re Little Rodee in Chester
B) whilst in Italy for over 2 months last summer  this was a common occurrence AND littering was appalling

Let us not go into the thorny issue of how motorhomers dispose of both black and grey waste. That is simply a diversion.
I know councils everywhere are strapped for cash and vandalism is a huge problem

Inconsiderate motorhomers is a problem and I do not condone it but the scale  of it is minimal compared with abuse and misuse by inconsiderate tourists and indeed "Locals" (whether they are "Boy racers" or not) many locals have a picnic and leave  litter and worse !


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

jagmanx said:


> And more rely on Tourism.
> 
> Yes because we have our own accommodation we probably contribute to the economy less Than those who stay in Hotels etc.
> But we but food drink and eat in Pubs etc
> ...



Good post jagmax, but you are wasting your time.
When folk post lies about us emptying our cassettes in toilets to justify their point.
The fact is the vast majority of us are good law abiding people, who don’t ask for much.

For years the arraners complained that they were not part of the RET scheme.
They complained that it was affecting their economy, now a few of them are complaining about a few Motorhomes. And they are being supported by some of us on here.

You will enjoy Arran jagmax, just don’t spend a night in Brodick, why would you anyway, Arran has so much more to offer.


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## jagmanx (Mar 24, 2019)

*Thanks Bill*

I am keen to visit Arran and not put off by various posts..
Will book CalMac If we decide to go.
I say if ..
We have most of May all of June July and August and early September available...
We "live in" MoHo for 5 months most summers.
We have doctors check ups to fit in
We hope to go to Switzerland which will total about 2 months...
But we should have time.
Wilding in Scotland is great we have been 3x before.
Will keep you posted !


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## caledonia (Mar 24, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> You never answered the question Caledonia.
> Why did you state on here that we emptied cassettes into the toilets in Sannox and blackwaterfoot.
> When clearly that was completely wrong.
> 
> ...



It was a sign on the toilet door at Sannox explaining why the toilets were shut but no doubt you won’t believe that.  As I said enjoy Arran. 
I like your signature by the way.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

caledonia said:


> It was a sign on the toilet door at Sannox explaining why the toilets were shut but no doubt you won’t believe that. �� As I said enjoy Arran.
> I like your signature by the way. ��



What about blackwaterfoot was there a sign there also.

I thought you did not visit this island grossly over populated full off cassette dumping selfish motothomers.
And 5000 residents up in arms about us :lol-049:

Or was that just another pack of lies Caledonia :have fun:

Oh and I like my signature to.


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## 2cv (Mar 24, 2019)

I must say that I find abuse of other members views and comments very tedious, and not at all in keeping with the generally fun and friendly demeanour of the forum. There are plenty of other less pleasant forums to go if you want to hurl abuse at people.


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## caledonia (Mar 24, 2019)

First time I’ve been called a liar on the forum. Only trying to give helpful information.
The Laird actually posted a while ago regarding sign at the Sannox toilets. 
I don’t think an open forum is the right place to go calling someone a liar because you don’t agree with them.


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## davef (Mar 24, 2019)

*Arran and motorhomes.*

I live on Arran, and yes some islanders do resent motorhomes, especially the very large ones. As always its all to do with consideration for others on how and where you park up and how you drive. If a wide van is pootling along at 25 or 30 mph admiring the amazing scenery, but not pulling into laybys to let drivers pass who are maybe in a rush to catch a ferry or make an appointment on time its obviously going to cause anger and resentment. ( This is even worse with the large groups of cyclists who have been coming over and driving in continuous convoys up to 200 yds or more long making it suicidal to overtake... there are always a few who spoil it for the many.)
The other problem is the difficulty of getting on the ferry without booking way in advance since RET was introduced. Not everyone here works in the tourist industry and for them not being able to get off the island when they want to is frustrating. Some of this is blamed on motorhomes - the very conspicuous large ones especially.
Most islanders are welcoming and friendly....but try not to give a reason for the small minority who are easily offended to take offence.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

davef said:


> I live on Arran, and yes some islanders do resent motorhomes, especially the very large ones. As always its all to do with consideration for others on how and where you park up and how you drive. If a wide van is pootling along at 25 or 30 mph admiring the amazing scenery, but not pulling into laybys to let drivers pass who are maybe in a rush to catch a ferry or make an appointment on time its obviously going to cause anger and resentment. ( This is even worse with the large groups of cyclists who have been coming over and driving in continuous convoys up to 200 yds or more long making it suicidal to overtake... there are always a few who spoil it for the many.)
> The other problem is the difficulty of getting on the ferry without booking way in advance since RET was introduced. Not everyone here works in the tourist industry and for them not being able to get off the island when they want to is frustrating. Some of this is blamed on motorhomes - the very conspicuous large ones especially.
> Most islanders are welcoming and friendly....but try not to give a reason for the small minority who are easily offended to take offence.



Lucky man Dave, living on Arran. I have loved your island since my youth.
I believe calmac are planning to introduce larger capacity ferries, hopefully sooner than later.
The Scottish government should have made provision for the effects of RET.
It’s looking like the northern isles will be joining the RET scheme soon, completing the full programme.

Yes I agree I find the vast majority of the islanders very friendly and welcoming, that’s what I have always loved about the island.

In 1978 I was having a drink in the old Lamlash inn. The rain got really heavy that night and high winds made camping a bit difficult. Well a man called John Morrison came up to me and offered me a bed for the night in his home. 

Also there used to be a shop in Lamlash on the left as you came into the village it’s gone now.
I asked for a pint of milk.
I went outside to drink it and it tasted horrible.
I went back to the shop and complained about the milk, saying it had turned.

The reply

Don’t be silly son, it’s fresh out the goat only this morning.

They then gave me a pint of cows milk, and we all had a laugh.


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## caledonia (Mar 24, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> What about blackwaterfoot was there a sign there also.
> 
> I thought you did not visit this island grossly over populated full off cassette dumping selfish motothomers.
> And 5000 residents up in arms about us :lol-049:
> ...



I found it! There was a thread titled  Arren where the laird posted information on the signs at Sannox. If I knew how to do it I would post a link but I don’t. Knew I wasn’t lying.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

Found this article from bbc website there are others about the new higher capacity ferry delays.

The construction of two new ferries for Caledonian MacBrayne has been affected by further delays.
One of the boats is for the Uig-Lochmaddy-Tarbert Triangle while the other is to operate between Arran and Ardrossan.
Ferguson Marine on the Clyde won a Scottish government contract worth about £97m to build the vessels.
It has notified CalMac's parent company, Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd, of the new delays.
The first ferry, MV Glenn Sannox -  which is destined for the Arran-Ardrossan route - was launched last November and was due to enter service this summer but construction delays meant that was initially put back to the winter of 2018/19. 
The shipbuilder blamed technical challenges in constructing the dual-fuel ship, which can be powered by liquefied natural gas. 
Earlier this year, the ship went into dry dock for work on problems with the bulbous bow section. 
Ferguson Marine has now confirmed the ship will not be ready until next summer, a full year behind schedule.
News of the latest delays comes amid calls for increased capacity on the Clyde and Hebrides ferry network to meet greater demand from islanders and tourists.
MSPs are to be informed of a revised timetable for new ferries in the next few weeks.


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## caledonia (Mar 24, 2019)

Fisherman said:


> Found this article from bbc website there are others about the new higher capacity ferry delays.
> 
> The construction of two new ferries for Caledonian MacBrayne has been affected by further delays.
> One of the boats is for the Uig-Lochmaddy-Tarbert Triangle while the other is to operate between Arran and Ardrossan.
> ...



Did you have a look for the thread regarding signs about toilets being emptied at Sannox? No need for an apology but do think twice about calling people a liar on an open forum. :wave:


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## davef (Mar 24, 2019)

There was supposed to be a new Ardrossan/Brodick ferry in service by now. In a fit of virtue signalling the Scottish government decided it was to be dual fuel, able to run on oil or LNG, seemingly a first ever. Fergussons the Clyde yard building it has run into major technical problems and is in ongoing legal dispute with the the Scottish government as to who is responsible for the escalating costs.It earlier had to be modified after they discovered the bow bulb made it unable to get into Ardrossan harbour. In the meantime I believe the build has stopped and the ferry route is still reliant on the old Caledonian Isle - or was until it crashed into the new pier at Brodick. Its away being repaired and a smaller replacement operating.....causing chaos to the island.
 The new ferry terminal at Brodick, a multimillion pound project, is causing yet more problems as it is at right angles to the old pier and now subject to easterly swells when the ferry is unable to dock. Cal Mac were warned about this before the project was started, but chose to ignore the advice.
As fracking for the gas has effectively been banned in Scotland, if the new ferry is ever completed, I am assuming the LNG will be travelling across the Atlantic from fracking sites in the USA into Grangemouth then trucked across to Ardrossan. I'm not sure how this helps the environment. 
What the island actually needed was to have 2 smaller ferries criss crossing increasing capacity and convenience.
Arran is an amazing place and you are right I'm lucky to be living here even if we do sometimes complain.....midges, cleggs( horseflies), rain, more rain, Cal Mac, state of the roads, gales, about 50" of rain a year in the sunny south of the island and possibly twice that in other parts, long winter short summer as in all of Scotland. But then the rain stops, the sun sparkles on the sea and Kintyre and the islands of Sanda and Ailsa Craig magically appear and there is nowhere else to compare.


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## 2cv (Mar 24, 2019)

I often see the new dual fuel ferry when passing Greenock. Even from a distance you can see that it’s going nowhere soon.
The government are keen to be seen as leaders in environmental protection. Unfortunately their enthusiasm is not matched by their abilities. When they introduced plans for a ULEZ in Glasgow the taxpayer ended up paying £10 million in order that buses would continue to be available!


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

davef said:


> There was supposed to be a new Ardrossan/Brodick ferry in service by now. In a fit of virtue signalling the Scottish government decided it was to be dual fuel, able to run on oil or LNG, seemingly a first ever. Fergussons the Clyde yard building it has run into major technical problems and is in ongoing legal dispute with the the Scottish government as to who is responsible for the escalating costs.It earlier had to be modified after they discovered the bow bulb made it unable to get into Ardrossan harbour. In the meantime I believe the build has stopped and the ferry route is still reliant on the old Caledonian Isle - or was until it crashed into the new pier at Brodick. Its away being repaired and a smaller replacement operating.....causing chaos to the island.
> The new ferry terminal at Brodick, a multimillion pound project, is causing yet more problems as it is at right angles to the old pier and now subject to easterly swells when the ferry is unable to dock. Cal Mac were warned about this before the project was started, but chose to ignore the advice.
> As fracking for the gas has effectively been banned in Scotland, if the new ferry is ever completed, I am assuming the LNG will be travelling across the Atlantic from fracking sites in the USA into Grangemouth then trucked across to Ardrossan. I'm not sure how this helps the environment.
> What the island actually needed was to have 2 smaller ferries criss crossing increasing capacity and convenience.
> Arran is an amazing place and you are right I'm lucky to be living here even if we do sometimes complain.....midges, cleggs( horseflies), rain, more rain, Cal Mac, state of the roads, gales, about 50" of rain a year in the sunny south of the island and possibly twice that in other parts, long winter short summer as in all of Scotland. But then the rain stops, the sun sparkles on the sea and Kintyre and the islands of Sanda and Ailsa Craig magically appear and there is nowhere else to compare.



Your cleggs are clever wee things, and bye god do they know how to bite.
Perhaps the local breed them for the Motorhomers to put us if visiting the island :


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## caledonia (Mar 24, 2019)

Last time on the Arran ferry we had black rhibs surrounded the ferry and sas type soldiers boarded and abseiled off the other side then disappeared as soon as the arrived. Then a submarine appeared. All very exciting if and a bit unnerving.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

It’s a real shame that RTE scheme did not take into account the changes that increased access to the islands would result in the problems that have occurred. For decades the Scottish islands suffered from expensive transport to and from the mainland. This in some cases having a devastating effect on local economies and resulted in many leaving their islands for employment on the mainland. Islanders campaigned for years for this, it’s a real shame if some now see it as a burden, instead of a benefit.

Arran is not the worse case here, I was on Mull two years ago, and the drive from Salen to Tobermory was to say the least stressful. We spent three days on the island and we were shocked at the increased volume of traffic on a single track road, never designed for such volumes. We managed to get away from the hustle and bustle and spent two days in Calgary. When we left our toilet was full to capacity, and had to empty it on our return. Fidden farm looks worth a visit we might head back onto the island and try it out.

Skye since lifting the tariffs on the bridge is almost a no go area now in summer. I know it’s not part of the RET scheme, but it’s symptomatic of what’s going on. Then we have the 500 route, were Europeans come over with their Motorhomes only to find problems finding somewhere to empty their toilets. I was chatting to a Belgian on Arran who could not believe the lack of basic facilities available over here.

There’s no point in trying to attract tourists without  puting the required infrastructure into place.
That only creates problems for everyone, and can result in the locals resenting those who visit their islands, towns and villages.


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## davef (Mar 24, 2019)

Certainly RET has been a double edged sword here with many lamenting the quieter state of the island prior to RET. There was a good case to have been made for the RET to only apply to island residents. In my own case with a campervan, pickup and motorbike, I'm paying about £600 pa in road tax. This entitles me to drive on the approx 100 miles of roads here unless I pay to cross to the mainland and pay CalMac - which is owned by Scottish government - so pay the government again - to use the road system that others have access to. However the government idea was to increase tourism on the islands to generate more taxes, rather than to just benefit islanders.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

davef said:


> Certainly RET has been a double edged sword here with many lamenting the quieter state of the island prior to RET. There was a good case to have been made for the RET to only apply to island residents. In my own case with a campervan, pickup and motorbike, I'm paying about £600 pa in road tax. This entitles me to drive on the approx 100 miles of roads here unless I pay to cross to the mainland and pay CalMac - which is owned by Scottish government - so pay the government again - to use the road system that others have access to. However the government idea was to increase tourism on the islands to generate more taxes, rather than to just benefit islanders.



Do you ever wild camp on the island Dave.
I have noticed some Motorhomes parked on driveways on Arran.


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## davef (Mar 24, 2019)

We have wild camped on the island - trying to ensure we were first in the unbooked queue at the ferry! There are quite a lot of campervans and motorhomes owned by residents here. Apart from the pleasures of wildcamping, its actually very sensible as if you venture off the island you can never be sure if you will get back when you plan with the possibility of the ferry being stormbound or having broken down, or if you haven't booked the ferry there is a good chance you wont be able to get on. With your own mini home on wheels its not a great problem if you have to stay overnight. There are no facilities for storm bound car drivers or passengers to stay inside overnight at the ferry terminal, and if a ferry load of people suddenly start having to look for overnight accommodation at the last minute, it can become very difficult and stressful. I am amazed that CalMac doesn't have a statutory duty to accommodate stormbound passengers.


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## Fisherman (Mar 24, 2019)

davef said:


> We have wild camped on the island - trying to ensure we were first in the unbooked queue at the ferry! There are quite a lot of campervans and motorhomes owned by residents here. Apart from the pleasures of wildcamping, its actually very sensible as if you venture off the island you can never be sure if you will get back when you plan with the possibility of the ferry being stormbound or having broken down, or if you haven't booked the ferry there is a good chance you wont be able to get on. With your own mini home on wheels its not a great problem if you have to stay overnight. There are no facilities for storm bound car drivers or passengers to stay inside overnight at the ferry terminal, and if a ferry load of people suddenly start having to look for overnight accommodation at the last minute, it can become very difficult and stressful. I am amazed that CalMac doesn't have a statutory duty to accommodate stormbound passengers.



Well Dave you certainly have opened my eyes to problems I never even thought of regarding the islanders. I knew that bad weather could lead to cancellation of ferries, but I never gave any thought to the other things you raised.


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## jagmanx (Mar 25, 2019)

*Well, What an interesting thread this is*

Yes a few "handbags" .
But very interesting and useful for us with a planned visit as detailed in post  #2.

Thanks to all.


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## caledonia (Mar 25, 2019)

jagmanx said:


> Yes a few "handbags" .
> But very interesting and useful for us with a planned visit as detailed in post  #2.
> 
> Thanks to all.



Glad you managed to get some useful info despite the handbags and insults.


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## barryd (Mar 25, 2019)

davef said:


> I live on Arran, and yes some islanders do resent motorhomes, especially the very large ones. As always its all to do with consideration for others on how and where you park up and how you drive. If a wide van is pootling along at 25 or 30 mph admiring the amazing scenery, but not pulling into laybys to let drivers pass who are maybe in a rush to catch a ferry or make an appointment on time its obviously going to cause anger and resentment. ( This is even worse with the large groups of cyclists who have been coming over and driving in continuous convoys up to 200 yds or more long making it suicidal to overtake... there are always a few who spoil it for the many.)
> The other problem is the difficulty of getting on the ferry without booking way in advance since RET was introduced. Not everyone here works in the tourist industry and for them not being able to get off the island when they want to is frustrating. Some of this is blamed on motorhomes - the very conspicuous large ones especially.
> Most islanders are welcoming and friendly....but try not to give a reason for the small minority who are easily offended to take offence.



I was last there in 2016 where we spent seven weeks on the Island but Ive been a regular visitor for most of my life. Before we had the motorhome we would stay there at least four or five times a year and often over Christmas and New Year.  It was like a second home, in fact we almost bought a place there near Corrie golf course (big house on the bend before the bridge) in the mid 2000s.  

I remember reading some of the anti motorhome rants around that time in the "Banner" and after talking to a lot of the locals it backs up what you say that I think the biggest objection was to motorhomes holding up traffic or parking together in daft places.  I did notice that since the RET there was indeed a lot more motorhomes driving the stretch from Brodick to Lochranza but it became clear to me they were simply using the RET and Arran as a quick hopscotch to Kintyre!  Barmy but there you go.  So the moral of the story if you go is get out of the bloody way of traffic if you drive like a fanny, dont park in groups or take over Brodick car park and only dump your waste in the approved places.

We did have a bit of a miserable old bat at Lochranza have a go at us when we were parked at the bottom of the Loch tucked away but she was the only one. Everyone else was welcoming. I spent £1500 on the island on that trip (a small amount to what I have put into that economy in the past thirty years though).

Glad to hear from Fisherman that there have been road improvements. Well overdue but they need to sort out the west coast. Arran is brutal on your suspension for sure.

As for Islay for the OP I found plenty of places to wild there also but its a while since I have been.


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## Fisherman (Mar 25, 2019)

Hi Barry the string road has been upgraded and it’s a lot better than years ago.
The west road is quite narrow and in need of some work in stretches.
But it’s very quiet, even in summer.


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## jann (Mar 25, 2019)

We didn't have problems finding overnight spots last year, also two places to empty toilets and collect drinking water. There weren't a lot of Motorhomes when we were there, although the ferry prices are a lot cheaper than years ago the cost must put some people off, so it is not crowded


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## Fisherman (Mar 25, 2019)

jann said:


> We didn't have problems finding overnight spots last year, also two places to empty toilets and collect drinking water. There weren't a lot of Motorhomes when we were there, although the ferry prices are a lot cheaper than years ago the cost must put some people off, so it is not crowded



Of course it’s not Jan, the ferry takes 80-90 vehicles and 90% of these are cars.
Normally only a couple of Motorhomes.
And some don’t stay on the island they drive to Lochranza and cross over to claonaig.
They create a problem for the locals who can’t get their cars on.
Also I have seen Motorhomes on both the main campsites.


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