# M 40 crash



## dave and mary (Nov 23, 2013)

Anyone who has breakdown cover with the RAC may wont to think again  after a horrific incident on the M40 this morning where women travelling to a dog show in their camper van with 12 dogs broke down and were left in the dark waiting for 3 hours after the RAC refused to pick them up because of the dogs on board! Subsequently the camper van was hit by a lorry and the women are lucky to be alive! Sadly 3 of the dogs were killed and one is currently still missing.


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## martyncc (Nov 23, 2013)

*Omg*



dave and mary said:


> View attachment 18717anyone who has breakdown cover with the rac may wont to think again  after a horrific incident on the m40 this morning where women travelling to a dog show in their camper van with 12 dogs broke down and were left in the dark waiting for 3 hours after the rac refused to pick them up because of the dogs on board! Subsequently the camper van was hit by a lorry and the women are lucky to be alive! Sadly 3 of the dogs were killed and one is currently still missing.



god that is so sad....


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## Asto (Nov 23, 2013)

They should NOT have stayed in the vehicle. The hard shoulder of a motorway is a horrendously dangerous place to be!

I sympathise of course, but for goodness sake let this be a lesson to everyone, bail out whatever the weather, it is just so damnably dangerous.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 23, 2013)

lucky anything or anybody  survived in that van ,makes you think especially when you see people sat in the back when traveling .i know when we had ours my wife and daughter used to travel in the back .


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## fearby (Nov 23, 2013)

we broke down on the M5 a few weeks ago we had 4 dogs and my mum who is 86 with us, we are with the AA through my saga insurance .
on this occasion they came straight out and took the van on the back of a truck with my husband and the 4 dogs , my mum could 
not climb into the truck so they sent for a van to take myself and her to the local service station where he told me,
 if they have to tow you home they wont take the dogs with them , we broke down again since in blackpool and it took them 
 nearly 4 hours to come out to us, this time we didn't have  the dogs with us ,a friend of mine had the same happen, they wouldn't take 
the dogs  so be aware its not just the RAC


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## hextal (Nov 23, 2013)

I wonder what the likelihood is of dogs getting loose when waiting outside a broken down vehicle as compared to the likelihood of the vehicle being struck.

Edit:   thats not meant as a loaded question by the way.


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## trevskoda (Nov 23, 2013)

This whole web forum allthreads is full of dogs ,dogs in vans dogs in vets dogs in pubs dogs in parks, what the hell is going on over in the mainland,im geting very scared.
is it a epidemic or what,im all woft out.


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## Sparks (Nov 23, 2013)

It's just that people over here are a little more concerned and less insensitive.


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## Caz (Nov 23, 2013)

Last time I broke down the dog was with me, RAC came and ended up low-loading me and the campervan back home. The only stipulation was that the dog wasn't allowed in the recovery truck and had to travel in my van.

Maybe it was because there were 15 of them? Must admit I never thought to mention that the dog was with me, I can't remember whether they asked or not.


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

Sparks said:


> It's just that people over here are a little more concerned and less insensitive.



insensitive,if you had a child that had its face torn of or a freind how lost there live on motor bike because of dogs i think you would think on a nother slant,im not against dogs there very usfull tool on the farm but i think uk has goon mad with them.
just my thoughts please dont call me insensitive,i take things as i see them.
lucky the folk all got out safe,as for motorways the last time i was in mainland i found motorists drove full belt on motorways
right on your back bumper.
its about time gov toke a stand and reduced car performance,why build cars that can do 100 plus when legal top speed 70,
would it not make more sence to build slower cars with more mpg,just a thought from a daft paddy.


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## nickb (Nov 24, 2013)

That is sad to hear, i had to entertain just one dog on the hard shoulder for an hour and a half, dont know how i would have coped with 12 but thats just the reason why you should always get out as we managed to run out of fuel on the M6/M1 junction just two miles from the services, we did have to wait 1.5 hrs for recovery in the rain but both of us and the dog stood behind the barrier in the rain, the AA recovered us and the dog no problem took us to the services we filled up and did the last 10 miles home


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## mark61 (Nov 24, 2013)

What a mess, although the cab still looks ok, but lucky escape for the passengers.
One report says the RAC were on route to the breakdown with a specialist recovery lorry, it doesn't mention them being left stranded by the RAC. So more facts are needed before any judgement of the RAC. If it turns out they were indeed visited by a recovery vehicle, who then left them, the RAC need taking to task.

The occupants should have been well up the bank, dogs left in the back of van. That where us with MH are lucky, we would almost certainly have warm clothes blankets etc, with us.


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## landyrubbertramp (Nov 24, 2013)

I do a lot of m way miles . This tends to be a bigger problem in the winter as ppl are unwilling to leave vehicle because of cold etc. It's only my opion but I think lens such as weather proof coats a bs surval blankets need to added to cars and checked in a ref basis . At the end if the day if ppl want to take the chance that's thier rusjmk prob is if your a child your at the mercy if the adult making the right decision


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

wintonions last post is very good people first dogs sec.
iv seen loads of dogs bouncing round in cars,very dangerous and elegal,they must be restranied behind dog bars.
but then again i see people do this with ther kids,i mean letting them bounce around.
how ever i some times would like to put my kids behind the dog bars?


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## mark61 (Nov 24, 2013)

trevskoda said:


> insensitive,if you had a child that had its face torn of or a freind how lost there live on motor bike because of dogs i think you would think on a nother slant,im not against dogs there very usfull tool on the farm but i think uk has goon mad with them.
> just my thoughts please dont call me insensitive,i take things as i see them.
> lucky the folk all got out safe,as for motorways the last time i was in mainland i found motorists drove full belt on motorways
> right on your back bumper.
> ...




LOL, as appalling as UK driving may seem, take a visit to the busier parts of Europe. Northern France, Belgium, Germany etc. We are comparatively placid.


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## Tbear (Nov 24, 2013)

These may be of use to stop your best friend becoming a deadly projectile but sadly I doubt they would have helped on this occasion.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/RAC-racpb13...5285092&sr=8-3&keywords=dog+harness+seat+belt

Richard


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## fifthwheel (Nov 24, 2013)

One dog is bad enough, but why would anyone want more than one. Crapping, yapping, jumping up leaving filthy pawmarks on your clothes. As far as dogs being allowed on beaches they should be banned along with horses. Who wants to see kids digging up dog crap on the beach?


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## ellieloy (Nov 24, 2013)

*Travelling with dogs*

As a member of the dog-showing fraternity. I regularly travel to shows and on holiday with 7 dogs. You may think I am crazy but two of these were rescues and the older ones are my former show dogs - beloved members of our family. 
I happen to know that the people in the camper that was hit were a group of people each with their own show dogs - hence the 12.
Most people use "soft crates" in campers as they are lightweight and easy to pack away, and cause no damage to the interior of the van. I believe the dogs in question at the accident were all crated, but I don't know if they were metal or fabric crates. However their camper was obliterated in the accident so any crate may have easily failed - foldup crates of any kind aren't crash tested the way that some of the specially designed car crating is.
I rang the RAC for some assurances last night as we had recently renewed with them. They claim they were on their way to the camper when the accident occurred. We know that larger recovery trucks are needed to move some of our motorhomes, but 3 hrs seems a long wait for people in such a vulnerable position
The RAC said it was up to their officers discretion whether dogs would be transported in the tow truck, or whether they had to be secured in the camper for towing. Clearly this needs to be thought through - and maybe there should be some provision (even at a premium) for a van collection for those travelling with larger numbers of dogs on board. Frankly I would do anything for peace of mind.
Just like our wilding pages advise us of safety measures for general travel - we perhaps ought to have a check list for travelling with dogs.
Safety kit such as triangle flashing lights etc to place behind the vehicle, sufficient crating/restraints for dogs,  for dogs, maybe even a pop up tent that could be set up away from a breakdown in a dangerous area....where crates could be put. If you have a rear garage which you use for the dogs and can afford it - permanent crash tested crating could be installed. Extra locks on the garage and habitation doors for travelling ( I have these but acknowledge that that would have done nothing in yesterdays situation - where the van was obliterated in the crash). If you cannot get to a slipway when on a motorway or main road, call highway officers for support - they did in the past attend when I had a blowout and was left stranded in a really dangerous place (had to take a specialist crash tested crate and two dogs out of the car to get to the spare tyre. They were brilliant and kept us safe until the RAC arrived!
Please don't diss us for carrying large numbers of dogs - we all have our reasons: show exhibitors, gundog trailers, obedience or racing dogs to name but a few. Some of us are one family going on holiday, others - as yesterday - may be friends travelling to shows together. Help us to make it safer for all of us!


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

ellieloy said:


> As a member of the dog-showing fraternity. I regularly travel to shows and on holiday with 7 dogs. You may think I am crazy but two of these were rescues and the older ones are my former show dogs - beloved members of our family.
> I happen to know that the people in the camper that was hit were a group of people each with their own show dogs - hence the 12.
> Most people use "soft crates" in campers as they are lightweight and easy to pack away, and cause no damage to the interior of the van. I believe the dogs in question at the accident were all crated, but I don't know if they were metal or fabric crates. However their camper was obliterated in the accident so any crate may have easily failed - foldup crates of any kind aren't crash tested the way that some of the specially designed car crating is.
> I rang the RAC for some assurances last night as we had recently renewed with them. They claim they were on their way to the camper when the accident occurred. We know that larger recovery trucks are needed to move some of our motorhomes, but 3 hrs seems a long wait for people in such a vulnerable position
> ...



yes got your point ,but are cages fixed to floor is van registered as goods as you are using for hire or reward if you colect prize money or other,what about ins have you told them,you might not be covered,just a thought.


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

i drove in tavr germany ,there beter drivers than us ,worst drivers are south of are border republic of ireland,


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## Seahorse (Nov 24, 2013)

I have read no criticism of the lorry driver that wandered on to the hard shoulder and hit them!!!! Funny old world!


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## mark61 (Nov 24, 2013)

Yes, Brittany is a lovely place and a lovely place to drive. I didn't just mention France though, and was not singling out French drivers. I'm referring to an area of Northern Europe, roughly strike a line from Dieppe to Frankfurt, then North to Hamburg and back to the North Sea. Yes a very densely populated area, same as the UK. 
I have driven through this area many times, both due East and North to Denmark. 
Now if I was to generalise and single out a nation of awful driving habits, I'd single out the Germans, quite surprisingly. A mixture of dumbed down "speed aware" drivers and those that can't live with a speed restricted motorway really don't mix very well, especially when the road is congested.
Where UK drivers are clearly the worst at is middle lane hogging, but now they are getting more 3+ lane motorways in Europe, they too are catching on.


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## Toonman (Nov 24, 2013)

trevskoda said:


> This whole web forum allthreads is full os ,dogs in vans dogs in vets dogs in pubs dogs in parks, what the hell is going on over in t he mainland,im geting very scared.
> is it a epidemic or what,im all woft out.



Why is it that every topic that mentions dogs you have to post a derogatory message about them. We have got the message now that you are against dogs but don't spoil it for those of us who do like dogs.


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## invalid (Nov 24, 2013)

Toonman said:


> Why is it that every topic that mentions dogs you have to post a derogatory message about them. We have got the message now that you are against dogs but don't spoil it for those of us who do like dogs.



I didn’t take from what he was writing that he was complaining about dogs par say, I think we would all agree that there are some very irresponsible dog owners, and some people who cant say no to yet another dog, but this tread was about the crash, more of concern to all of use should be the way their MH turned into kindling, and the advice from others about never staying inside one on the hard shoulder hopefully is well and truly learnt.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 24, 2013)

Tbear said:


> These may be of use to stop your best friend becoming a deadly projectile but sadly I doubt they would have helped on this occasion.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/RAC-racpb13...5285092&sr=8-3&keywords=dog+harness+seat+belt
> 
> Richard



you cannot expect people to restrain there dogs in cars can you, after all how many parents do you see with kids and more so babies unrestrained in cars . the police seem to turn a blind eye many times ,it is an offense that should be punished with a driving ban as with drink drive a massive fine and risk of the children taken into care,or put on the child at risk register  basically for endangering a child's life .


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## invalid (Nov 24, 2013)

mandrake said:


> you cannot expect people to restrain there dogs in cars can you, after all how many parents do you see with kids and more so babies unrestrained in cars . the police seem to turn a blind eye many times ,it is an offense that should be punished with a driving ban as with drink drive a massive fine and risk of the children taken into care,or put on the child at risk register  basically for endangering a child's life .



What makes me mad is when people leave the car running with dogs and children free roaming, while they nip in the shop. I sometimes wonder if when some people breed they lose all their commonsense.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 24, 2013)

invalid said:


> What makes me mad is when people leave the car running with dogs and children free roaming, while they nip in the shop. I sometimes wonder if when some people breed they lose all their commonsense.



yes you cannot think how irresponsible some people are ,also that is another illegal practice ,leaving a motor vehicle unattended whilst leaving the engine running ,is called quitting and punishable by a fine, even if the car is not running the car can catch fire  with the kids in. madness


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## Sparks (Nov 24, 2013)

Yes insensitive. We are talking about the person who responded to someones pet being ill by basically saying shoot it.
Priorities don't come into it. Nobody is suggesting pets take priority over humans.


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

Seahorse said:


> I have read no criticism of the lorry driver that wandered on to the hard shoulder and hit them!!!! Funny old world!



yes tired drivers can be big prob on main land,if no people injured or worse cars fans etc an be replaced.


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## invalid (Nov 24, 2013)

The important thing without doubt is hopefully the message will get across to all MH’s Caravans, etc new and long suffering, leave the van if it brakes down.
As we get older we have less life to use, let’s not lose what little we have left by carelessness.


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

Sparks said:


> Yes insensitive. We are talking about the person who responded to someones pet being ill by basically saying shoot it.
> Priorities don't come into it. Nobody is suggesting pets take priority over humans.


wind you nec in its only a forum,do you take all things here so serious,you would not last 5 mins here even in a school plyground,now i like anamals im going round now to kis my nabours pussy.


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## Caz (Nov 24, 2013)

This thread is about the crash, please don't keep taking it off topic into personal rants about whether or not you like dogs and restraining children in cars.

The crash happened because the lorry driver wasn't paying attention.

Let's not forget that, before we start blaming the RAC for taking 3 hours to get there, the vehicle occupants for having too many dogs, breaking down in the first place or not getting away from the vehicle.

Also, the human occupants were not alright - the last I heard although the 2 in the front are OK the third, who presumably was in the rear at the time of the crash, was still in intensive care.


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 24, 2013)

when there are injuries ,or fatalities the offending driver gets arrested for the accident .no one ever arrests the company transport manager for contributing to the accident .you may ask why should the transport manager/company manager be arrested ,mainly because they give the drivers so much work and strict timetables to work to, contributing to tiredness through overwork .i used to be a drivers mate for super drug and the work schedule they expected the drivers to follow was nigh on impossible without taking risks


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 24, 2013)

Kainene said:


> This thread is about the crash, please don't keep taking it off topic into personal rants about whether or not you like dogs and restraining children in cars.
> 
> The crash happened because the lorry driver wasn't paying attention.
> 
> ...


 we are only following normal discussion habits its not really straying from the accident theme and causes /prevention of injuries , also nobody is ranting ,well i dont think so


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

Kainene said:


> This thread is about the crash, please don't keep taking it off topic into personal rants about whether or not you like dogs and restraining children in cars.
> 
> The crash happened because the lorry driver wasn't paying attention.
> 
> ...



yes your right im off for a damd good spanking now soooooooooooooooooooooo sorry


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

mandrake said:


> when there are injuries ,or fatalities the offending driver gets arrested for the accident .no one ever arrests the company transport manager for contributing to the accident .you may ask why should the transport manager/company manager be arrested ,mainly because they give the drivers so much work and strict timetables to work to, contributing to tiredness through overwork .i used to be a drivers mate for super drug and the work schedule they expected the drivers to follow was nigh on impossible without taking risks



yes your right ,i worked for a motor co had to drive round dealers with parts,300 mls a day,if not back in time got roliking
they did not care about snow rain crashes terrorist bombs etc just do job or well get somone else.


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## frontslide (Nov 24, 2013)

I don't use motorways.


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## Asto (Nov 24, 2013)

Nor would I if I had time to meander about, BUT !


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## invalid (Nov 24, 2013)

I had to stop on a motorway hard should once because the spark plugs had oiled up, before I had managed to put a clean set in, I had a highway truck and police car stop to offer assistance. Once I had changed them, I was escorted to the next exit. I wonder if I had not been in the vintage car plus caravan would I have been treated differently?


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## mark61 (Nov 24, 2013)

Assuming all the hearsay is true, I would have been in and out of my van a few times to make a brew, thats for sure. I don't care how bloody dangerous a blooming hard shoulder is, or is meant to be. 

Fortunate enough to have only broken down once on a motorway, think I had to wait about 90 mins for RAC, but highway agency called by within about 30 mins of me breaking down, even gave me a pat on the back for not only wearing a hi viz, I had also put out me triangle and amber flashing torch. Yes, I was sitting way up on the bank. 

Three hours during the night, apparently left by the RAC. Thats not right at all. Even if they refused to recover them, the lorry should have waited there, contacted highway agency and/or police. Those three women were let down badly.


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## invalid (Nov 24, 2013)

Here we go again, if you really get upset by what someone has said why not PM them, no good shouting on here and getting others upset, we all have a right to our opium, however bizarre it may seem to others, lets try not to get too personal it will upset Phil.


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## scampa (Nov 24, 2013)

[No message]


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## sparrks (Nov 24, 2013)

portiapug said:


> You utter Clown.
> 
> They were on their way to a Championship Dog Show. The dogs were all crated in Airline standard crates.
> 
> ...



Where does it say that the lorry driver was at fault in any of the reports?

All I can see is that the lorry jack-knifed and hit the motorhome, no account is made that the driver was at fault, in fact no mention of the driver at all. Best wait for the facts I think.


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## Fazerloz (Nov 24, 2013)

love him or hate him Wint is allowed his own opinions if you know you dont like what he writes dont read his posts nobody makes you.:cheers:


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## hextal (Nov 24, 2013)

portiapug said:


> You utter Clown.
> 
> They were on their way to a Championship Dog Show. The dogs were all crated in Airline standard crates.
> 
> ...



I think there is a difference between waiting for a specialist truck and being abandoned.
Im not quite sure what the girl's country of origin has to do with things. The driver should have been responsible for her.
I've not read yet that the lorry driver was at fault; where has this info come from?

I think you are over reacting to an opinion that you don't agree with here.


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## grumpy2 (Nov 24, 2013)

mark61 said:


> What a mess, although the cab still looks ok, but lucky escape for the passengers.
> One report says the RAC were on route to the breakdown with a specialist recovery lorry, it doesn't mention them being left stranded by the RAC. So more facts are needed before any judgement of the RAC. If it turns out they were indeed visited by a recovery vehicle, who then left them, the RAC need taking to task.
> 
> The occupants should have been well up the bank, dogs left in the back of van. That where us with MH are lucky, we would almost certainly have warm clothes blankets etc, with us.



so right we dont know the facts.


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## Oasis (Nov 24, 2013)

From Facebook:

RAC on Saturday · Bristol


Following the terrible accident on the M40 we wanted to respond to members’ concerns to make it clear that we always attend broken-down vehicles carrying animals. As today’s incident involved a large motorhome we had to ensure the correct recovery vehicle attended. Sadly for all concerned, the recovery vehicle was on its way when the accident happened. Our thoughts are with the injured passenger and the owners of the dogs that died.


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## Wind Dancer (Nov 24, 2013)

Please bear in mind that we are not all faceless names, and the people involved in that horrific accident are real people and they may be known to some of us on this forum.  

Such is the nature of a percentage of this nation that they have to jump in and apportion blame, and (very sadly) be disrespectful to people and situations that they know extremely little about.   

I have seen more sympathy for people that have had their vans stolen.

For those that are interested, the lost dog was found, and I believe it is ok.

My best wishes go to those that are injured and I hope that they have a speedy recovery.  My sympathy also goes to those that have lost their beloved pets.   Many of us know how devastating that can be.

:dog::dog::dog:


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

portiapug said:


> You utter Clown.
> 
> They were on their way to a Championship Dog Show. The dogs were all crated in Airline standard crates.
> 
> ...


i think you the clot wintstated that the driver of van should have removed all passengers from van over safety rail,which they failed to do.
it may or may not be truck driver who ran up there bum,but if all aboard were had been evacuated all would have been well.
please dont go mad its what i read it as.


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## gholt417 (Nov 24, 2013)

I must admit its so sad when animals die in accidents. But would we see this reaction if 3 of 12 sheep died in a road traffic accident?
No of course not.
It would be more personally sad if a pet had been hurt but I just can't see how this many 'show dogs' are really pets. 

What I think is striking is that most of the contentious views are in relation to hurt and killed animals when three people could have lost their lives for not protecting themselves by following well known good practices of removing themselves from a high risk situation (Russia has motorways far scarier than ours so the young girl sould have known). 

I also find it uncomfortable when reading a thread discussing 'dogs and children' not secured within a car. They should be secured but unsecuring a child is very very different than an animal. 

Graham


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## Cliffy (Nov 24, 2013)

A friend of mine occidentally  ran over a dog killing it out right. He phoned the police to report it.

The conversation went something like.

Friend
_Hello officer I have ran over a dog and it is dead_.

Police officer.
_Only one?_

That's my kind of policeman!

The sad thing about this thread is that is if the women had been killed and all the dogs were unhurt it would not have got a mention on here.


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## Wind Dancer (Nov 24, 2013)

Cliffy said:


> The sad thing about this thread is that is if the women had been killed and all the dogs were unhurt it would not have got a mention on here.



You think _That's_ the sad thing??


I think there is plenty sad about it already.


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## n brown (Nov 24, 2013)

strong emotions as usual whenever dogs are involved.i agree with trevskoda ,hextal and wint,nobody should have been in the van on the hard shoulder,that was a tragic error of judgement  ,apportioning blame to the rac or the lorry driver won't change that


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## sparrks (Nov 24, 2013)

portiapug said:


> It seems that everyone is missing the point.
> 
> The so-called '4th emergency service' attended and then just left them. That is, 3 women he left in the dark and in a potentially dangerous situation. Would you like that on your conscience? Why did he not contact someone on their behalf or inform them to do so as he is the professional driver not them? Would your wife know exactly what to do at 5 am on a motorway? You lot are not keyboard warriors, you are just sad, old, mischief making old gits who have a big opinion of yourselves and no trace of compassion for three women who went through a nightmare. What goes around comes around.
> 
> Let's hope that any of you lot are next. Of course you will get out of your vehicle and wait around for 3 hours in the cold and dark and not come on here ranting and raving about the lousy service you received. No, of course not ..... because you are all perfect. At least you think you are.



Lets have facts and not hearsay please.

_"You lot are not keyboard warriors, you are just sad, old, mischief making old gits" _ Speak for yourself.

Yes the whole episode is sad, but it was avoidable, at least for the women.


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## trevskoda (Nov 24, 2013)

yes i see  the services should have sorted it,people let down again by those how should be looking after us and geting paid to do so.


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## n brown (Nov 24, 2013)

I've been in similar situations quite a few times and knowing enough to get yourself out of danger isn't dependent on being told or being male or female .and calling me names doesn't help


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## yorkieowl (Nov 24, 2013)

[No message]


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## gholt417 (Nov 24, 2013)

Portiapug, I agree with the first three lines of your main paragraph to a certain point. This should be the issue and talking point not the unfortunate animals.
My wife has broken down late at night on motorway and did the correct thing but regardless of making the safest choice, the thread should be about the three people and the RACs actions in relation to them.

Graham


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## scampa (Nov 24, 2013)

[No message]


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## mark61 (Nov 24, 2013)

[No message]


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## hextal (Nov 24, 2013)

I get out of the car and stand upstream of it. So if it gets hit i don't end up picking a car out of my teeth.

Always have a few sets of thermal hi viz gear in the boot from work.

People are perfectly entitled to stay inside their vehicles but they do do at their own risk.  short of possibly hypothermia or other very specific risks from being outdoors i don't think there are many good reasons to be in the car on the hardshoulder.


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## scampa (Nov 24, 2013)

(note that I didn't say what I would have done, I just asked people to be totally honest to THEMSELVES about what THEY would do, on a cold dark motorway hard-shoulder at the actual event. Good answers so far though!)


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## Firefox (Nov 25, 2013)

What a very sad story.

This was a major safety issue. I can understand they may not have been able to recover them a long distance with 12 dogs, but surely they had the responsibility to tow them off the motorway to a place of safety like the nearest garage.

Then a tragedy could have been avoided. 

We should email the RAC expressing our disgust at their dereliction of duty to recover at least as far as a place of safety.


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## dogphotographer (Nov 25, 2013)

*Facts about crash from one of the ladies involved*

I am unable to read the posts as my situation is still too fragile.. But I feel the need to clarify some facts as I am one of the three ladies ... The dogs were all secured in custom made steel and or fibreglass crates that were custom made to fit our rig. The dogs were running down the motorway after our vehicle was hit and obliterated .
We have such a large rig because we take our entire family of dogs with us whenever we are off on a weekend jaunt. 
We do not breed or show as a profession we have each been in dogs our entire lives. 
The RAC was informed the dogs were in crates
The Motorhome had what I believe was a clutch/gearbox failure as it was still revving but no gears engaged.
We did get out but ad the temps were brutal we were forced back in to get warm 
At all times we had all sidelights and flashers on
Repeated pleas over 3 hours were made to the RAC but they said they were having a hard time because the contractors were refusing to come
At no time did we ask if even one dog would be allowed in a recovery truck
Our dogs are our life and our kids - we did the best we could for them... Quite honestly evenif we had been sitting on the bank with the distance the chassis and debris was thrown we could have all been even more seriously injured, and I would never have been able recover witnessing my dogs being crushed.
Sincerely
Lisa Croft-Elliott


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## Deleted member 21686 (Nov 25, 2013)

I am really sorry to hear what you've gone through.

It probably is a good idea not to read the rest of this thread it will just upset you more.


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## Siimplyloco (Nov 25, 2013)

dogphotographer said:


> I am unable to read the posts as my situation is still too fragile.
> 
> Sincerely
> Lisa Croft-Elliott



That is a message from the heart. We lost our beloved Westie last month and know how you feel.
Best wishes
John


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## Sharon the Cat (Nov 25, 2013)

dogphotographer said:


> I am unable to read the posts as my situation is still too fragile..



I feel for you so badly. I would have been terrified for my dogs in such a situation.

I am sure that vast majority of those on this forum feel the same. 
None of us would ever want to go through what you have.


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## mark61 (Nov 25, 2013)

Horrible experience.
My best wishes to you.


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## trevskoda (Nov 25, 2013)

siimplyloco said:


> That is a message from the heart. We lost our beloved Westie last month and know how you feel.
> Best wishes
> John



once again some one more worried about dogs than the person injured,very strange.


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## Firefox (Nov 25, 2013)

Dogs are the same as family for many people Trev, you don't seem to be getting it? Many dogs have the intelligence of a two or three year old child so why shouldn't they deserve the same respect as humans? They'd probably even use Linux mint given half the choice!


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## Philcott (Nov 25, 2013)

Hats off to a very brave lady for facing up to you lot and giving the truth/facts of what happened, rather than the suppositions that have littered this thread. Madam, I wish you and your friends well and hope that you manage to recover from what has been an awful situation.

It makes me so angry that people spout off about situations, without knowing all the facts  before giving their opinion, sometimes in a very offensive way!


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## Siimplyloco (Nov 25, 2013)

trevskoda said:


> once again some one more worried about dogs than the person injured,very strange.



If you took the trouble to read the post properly, 'Empathy' is appropriate here, never mind whether we are talking about humans or dogs! Personally, I think you are trolling, so give it a rest please?
Thanks
John


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## Wind Dancer (Nov 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## Deleted member 37170 (Nov 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## Siimplyloco (Nov 25, 2013)

Wind Dancer said:


> If you can't show compassion, please show some respect.



Agreed.
John


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## Sharon the Cat (Nov 25, 2013)

Simply loco, Wind Dancer & Bopper have put it very well. 
Whatever your personal opinions please have some respect for the feelings of others. 
That's all, just respect.
It is not too much to ask is it?


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## Siimplyloco (Nov 25, 2013)

Sharon the Cat said:


> That's all, just respect.
> It is not too much to ask is it?



I can assure you, from past experience, that with some people you are wasting your breath!
John


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## Sharon the Cat (Nov 25, 2013)

siimplyloco said:


> I can assure you, from past experience, that with some people you are wasting your breath!
> John



I think I'd rather waste my breath than have anyone think for a single moment that I thought such behaviour to be acceptable.


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## Firefox (Nov 25, 2013)

Firefox said:


> Dogs are the same as family for many people Trev, you don't seem to be getting it? Many dogs have the intelligence of a two or three year old child so why shouldn't they deserve the same respect as humans? They'd probably even use Linux mint given half the choice!
> 
> 
> 
> How can you answer "No" with any confidence... are you a dog!?


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## trevskoda (Nov 25, 2013)

[No message]


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## Siimplyloco (Nov 25, 2013)

trevskoda said:


> ok ill send a get well card to the dogs and to hell with the people hurt in the acc



Looks like Admin's point was made again......
John


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## Deleted member 21686 (Nov 25, 2013)

trevskoda said:


> ok ill send a get well card to the dogs and to hell with the people hurt in the acc



Are you all there?
This is totaly uncalled for.

To be honest Trev you're letting yourself down with these type of posts and it's spoiling the forum or is that the idea.


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## onion (Nov 25, 2013)

Can I offer my hart felt sorrow to all involved in this accident have been reading it & can't understand why most r answering the two that show no respect for all involved, I know what it's like to lose a wife & a pet & the two on here that r just winding every one up r just a couple of pricks


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## Siimplyloco (Nov 25, 2013)

onion said:


> Can I offer my hart felt sorrow to all involved in this accident have been reading it & can't understand why most r answering the two that show no respect for all involved, I know what it's like to lose a wife & a pet & the two on here that r just winding every one up r just a couple of pricks



I quite agree with you. I lost my 17 year old son, my only child, to unexplained suicide - he used my shotgun - and when I encounter ignorant, insensitive people  I just despair for the human race, but I can't ignore it as it's too close to home!
John


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## Deleted member 21686 (Nov 25, 2013)

siimplyloco said:


> I quite agree with you. I lost my 17 year old son, my only child, to unexplained suicide - he used my shotgun - and when I encounter ignorant, insensitive people  I just despair for the human race, but I can't ignore it as it's too close to home!
> John



I agree and feel for you John.

People wonder why we lose members, well these pathetic comments really hurt sensitive folk and they don't come on here to be upset by insensitive morons.


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## onion (Nov 25, 2013)

portiapug said:


> I agree with the last few posters. This forum has took a sudden nosedive. Time to look elsewhere as there are plenty of motorhome forums that don't put up with Trolls. I will stay logged on today and if this carries on in the same way then I am offski.
> 
> I have also noticed that a few regular contributors are no longer logging on and anyone who comes across this forum is quickly moving on. It's not exactly a good advert for the forum.



Why should u suffer & other people that may like your input, just ignore all there posts until thay say something constructive & only answer then, they'll soon get fed up if no one reapplies to there dribble


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## Deleted member 21686 (Nov 25, 2013)

portiapug said:


> I agree with the last few posters. This forum has took a sudden nosedive. Time to look elsewhere as there are plenty of motorhome forums that don't put up with Trolls. I will stay logged on today and if this carries on in the same way then I am offski.
> 
> I have also noticed that a few regular contributors are no longer logging on and anyone who comes across this forum is quickly moving on. It's not exactly a good advert for the forum.



You're right some of the recent problems have driven a few away but some of them don't stay away and often just read the threads even if they don't post themselves because this is a bloody good forum.

I personally think some of the trouble is caused on purpose just to disrupt.


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## Tezza33 (Nov 25, 2013)

portiapug said:


> I agree with the last few posters. This forum has took a sudden nosedive. Time to look elsewhere as there are plenty of motorhome forums that don't put up with Trolls. I will stay logged on today and if this carries on in the same way then I am offski.
> 
> I have also noticed that a few regular contributors are no longer logging on and anyone who comes across this forum is quickly moving on. It's not exactly a good advert for the forum.


I feel the same way myself but if anybody doesn't want to read the posts made by any member click on 'settings' at the top, then click on 'edit ignore list' then put the members name in there, you will not see their posts anymore unless somebody quotes them


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## Sharon the Cat (Nov 25, 2013)

tezza33 said:


> I feel the same way myself but if anybody doesn't want to read the posts made by any member click on 'settings' at the top, then click on 'edit ignore list' then put the members name in there, you will not see their posts anymore unless somebody quotes them



Good idea but the 2 people I can think of have made valuable contributions in other threads so it is a tough one. Just a pity that they can't show respect for other people feelings.


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## Tezza33 (Nov 25, 2013)

Sharon the Cat said:


> Good idea but the 2 people I can think of have made valuable contributions in other threads so it is a tough one. Just a pity that they can't show respect for other people feelings.


I agree they have but it is an option, I am a dog lover myself and I just choose not to reply to them, if you don't give them ammunition they cannot fire back, why should they stop my enjoyment on here:dog:


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## Siimplyloco (Nov 25, 2013)

tezza33 said:


> I feel the same way myself but if anybody doesn't want to read the posts made by any member click on 'settings' at the top, then click on 'edit ignore list' then put the members name in there, you will not see their posts anymore unless somebody quotes them



It works! An electronic blue pencil! George Orwell rules OK!
John


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## Siimplyloco (Nov 25, 2013)

*Let's Lighten Up!*

Hi Folks. I forgot to mention my_ favourite _hobby. Let's drink to all the _nice_ people on this Forum!  OK, OK, I was a bit younger in this photo.....
John


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## Asto (Nov 25, 2013)

siimplyloco said:


> Hi Folks. I forgot to mention my_ favourite _hobby. Let's drink to all the _nice_ people on this Forum!  OK, OK, I was a bit younger in this photo.....
> John



And you can still drive!!!!


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## Deleted member 21686 (Nov 25, 2013)

Yes to the nice people.

Nice dicky by the way!


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## splitty67 (Nov 25, 2013)

Why don't you just sling your insensitive, self opinionated, arrogant f*cking arse off this site, you horrible twat. 
Phil, ban the sh!t out of me if you wish, I'm going anyway since you never seem to take action against this barsteward.


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## trevskoda (Nov 25, 2013)

MORGANTHEMOON said:


> Are you all there?
> This is totaly uncalled for.
> 
> To be honest Trev you're letting yourself down with these type of posts and it's spoiling the forum or is that the idea.



hi if you had read my posts i said i was very sorry for the persons hurt in accedent ,still am and hope they recover very
fast,what i also stated is i could not under stand people making more about blinkin dogs,sending simpathey for them rather than the people.
i also stated that the people should have got out and stayed out of van and walked upstream of it so if it was hit they would be out of danger zone as wintonion also said.
then i got people sending me threads stating i was like hitler and gasing jews,where did that all come from.
this is my final on this thread as people dont read them properley,sorry for my stupidity and hope all ok.


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## Deleted member 21686 (Nov 25, 2013)

And doggy's

Our 2 daxy's in their Christmas best.


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## Asto (Nov 25, 2013)

splitty67 said:


> Why don't you just sling your insensitive, self opinionated, arrogant f*cking arse off this site, you horrible twat.
> Phil, ban the sh!t out of me if you wish, I'm going anyway since you never seem to take action against this barsteward.



Calm down, Winty is just a pussycat going through a very very late midlife crisis for crisakes.. 

In reality I would wager he'd be in there helping had he been on the scene but his rather large facial orifice got going a bit too much this time and as we all know sorry is the hardest word..


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## onion (Nov 25, 2013)

Good call John here's to the nice people  ok ok this was sometime ago as we'll :fun:


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## maingate (Nov 25, 2013)

If it aint good enough for Splitty then it aint good enough for me either.

Bye all.


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## dave and mary (Nov 25, 2013)

dave and mary said:


> View attachment 18717Anyone who has breakdown cover with the RAC may wont to think again  after a horrific incident on the M40 this morning where women travelling to a dog show in their camper van with 12 dogs broke down and were left in the dark waiting for 3 hours after the RAC refused to pick them up because of the dogs on board! Subsequently the camper van was hit by a lorry and the women are lucky to be alive! Sadly 3 of the dogs were killed and one is currently still missing.



When I put this post on I never in my wildest dreams thought it would cause so much discontent among members. Many of you I have met at meets had a drink in a pub with you, even eaten you lovely chilly. The support you all have given to Mary and myself over the last year has been so helpful to us with our daughters illness. Please please think again about leaving the site, and remember all the good times we have had, the people that are upsetting you are not worth bothering about, just don't read there posts.

To the people involved in the accident I apologise for the comments you have hade to read on here, And I wish that I had never put the post on, so can we now draw a line under this post before other people take offence.

Thanks Dave


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## Deleted member 21686 (Nov 25, 2013)

Not your fault Dave these quite innocent posts can easily turn nasty when certain members put they're 5 penneth in.


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## Philcott (Nov 25, 2013)

It's human nature to make assumptions - and sadly this whole thread has been sidetracked and gone totally down the drain! Don't feel sad Dave and Mary - you posted in good faith.

It is a shame that so many good people might have left the forum as a result of some of the remarks made, but that again is human nature. Sometimes we react without thinking - same with replying to threads. Something get someone's back up and the poop hits the fan.

I agree it is time to put this thread to bed, as any further comments will only inflame further, the uncomfortable and unfortunate situation.


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## Admin (Nov 25, 2013)

Do not post in this thread unless it is directly related to the crash on the M40.

Two members have been warned about their insensitive posts.


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## maingate (Nov 26, 2013)

More information on this incident.

News >Dog World >Dog World Home >Dogworld


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## Siimplyloco (Nov 26, 2013)

Thanks for posting that, it puts things into perspective - for most folks anyway!
John


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## Deleted member 775 (Nov 26, 2013)

glad to hear that the lost dog has been found safe and well .its terrible having some killed ,but its equally as distressing loosing/not knowing the fate of a lost pet. hope the injured people are doing well


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## Sharon the Cat (Nov 26, 2013)

maingate said:


> More information on this incident.
> 
> News >Dog World >Dog World Home >Dogworld



A factual & informative report but most distressing too. I hope I am never ever in a similar situation.


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## ellieloy (Nov 26, 2013)

trevskoda said:


> yes got your point ,but are cages fixed to floor is van registered as goods as you are using for hire or reward if you colect prize money or other,what about ins have you told them,you might not be covered,just a thought.



LOL - winning money? - I ain't that good! LOL - its a hobby...... and lots of shows don't even provide you with a Rosette these days!

My cages aren't fixed to the floor - but are wedged in so they cant move. We are also in the process of getting our garage space custom caged, and I do have seatbelt harnesses .....though of course they don't crash test them for dogs


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## ellieloy (Nov 26, 2013)

gholt417 said:


> I must admit its so sad when animals die in accidents. But would we see this reaction if 3 of 12 sheep died in a road traffic accident?
> No of course not.
> It would be more personally sad if a pet had been hurt but I just can't see how this many 'show dogs' are really pets.
> 
> ...



Feels like I am getting off topic here but I cant let this go unaddressed. These three women in had dogs with them - they weren't 12 dogs owned by one person - and so what if they were? I am a hobby exhibitor of show dogs, and we have 7 all who live in the house and all much loved family pets. The reason for this number is that some are dogs we have rescued from puppy farms and from "death row", and here are my current show dogs and their ageing forerunners. It is because they are so loved that people don't ditch a show dog just because its show days are over.

I read remarks about children and dogs being secured in vehicles as being done so for their own safety and that of the rest of the passengers - and to prevent driver distraction - not that one was more important than the other - though it has to be said that for many people unable to have children, pets ARE their family!

I am sure that most people would agree that whatever someone's life choices - whether they have children or dogs - one or several - we are concerned for safety all round; and look for best practice when driving or in the case of a breakdown. Positive suggestions and safety promotion would surely be a better way forward than making assumptions and value judgements.


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## chrisinbrighton (Nov 26, 2013)

ellieloy said:


> LOL - winning money? - I ain't that good! LOL - its a hobby...... and lots of shows don't even provide you with a Rosette these days!
> 
> My cages aren't fixed to the floor - but are wedged in so they cant move. We are also in the process of getting our garage space custom caged, and I do have seatbelt harnesses .....though of course they don't crash test them for dogs



Wedged in so they can't move ? Have you heard of impact ? One hits something coming the other way at 70mph that's an impact of 140mph it's a sure thing those crates/cages will move


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## maingate (Nov 26, 2013)

chrisinbrighton said:


> Wedged in so they can't move ? Have you heard of impact ? One hits something coming the other way at 70mph that's *an impact of 140mph it's a sure thing those crates/cages will move*



So will everybody and everything at 140 mph.


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## Admin (Nov 26, 2013)

Thread closed


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