# Cornwall Enshrines No Overnighting into Law



## Viktor (Mar 4, 2013)

Hi All.

For information I received this email today.



*The Cornwall Council (Off Street Parking Places)(Amendment No.3) Order 2012*

Dear XXXX

Thank you for taking the time to respond to the public consultation regarding the above. All responses that were received have been duly considered and debated by the Council; the new Order was made on the 20th February 2013 and will come into force on 15th March 2013.

The practice of sleeping within vehicles has, for many years, been prohibited within Cornwall Council car parks, it was also prohibited by the previous District/Borough Councils, and this has always been stated on the tariff signs within the car parks. Unfortunately proving that someone is sleeping within a vehicle is difficult to enforce. The ban of motor homes during the night is aimed at making it easier to enforce this long standing restriction on use.

As a Council we wish to support local businesses and as such it is hoped that this ban will encourage people to utilise the numerous high quality facilities around the County.

Thank you for your interest in this matter.

Yours sincerely

XXXXX
Parking Programme Co-ordinator
Transportation
Cornwall Council

0300 1234 222
parking@cornwall.gov.uk
www.cornwall.gov.uk

Please let us know if you need any particular assistance from us, such as facilities to help with mobility, vision or hearing, or information in a different format.
Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email?

This e-mail and attachments are intended for above named only and may be confidential. If they have come to you in error you must take no action based on them, nor must you copy or show them to anyone; please e-mail us immediately at enquiries@cornwall.gov.uk.

Please note that this e-mail may be subject to recording and/or monitoring in accordance with the relevant legislation and may need to be disclosed under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 or the Environmental Information Regulations 2004.

Security Warning: It is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that this e-mail and any attachments are virus free. The Authority will not accept liability for any damage caused by a virus.


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## windyjools (Mar 4, 2013)

'Cornwall is an area we would like to visit sometime'

If this is the councils' attitude, then personally, I can find many other places to visit where you can stay and not be viewed as a nuisance. As you say, Cornwall is off the list, no problem, that's why the van has wheels and an engine, vote with your wallet!


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## Deleted member 19733 (Mar 4, 2013)

Thanks for posting the info, this has definately knocked us off the fence about visiting Cornwall in the future, Cornwall is off our wish list. There are many more beautiful and welcoming places to visit in the UK, eg; Wales, Scotland, we know where we're appreciated, that's where we'll visit and spend our money.

:nicethread:


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## Deleted member 13867 (Mar 4, 2013)

The real problem with Cornwall is that whilst i would agree there are many high quality sites in the area the cost of staying on one of these sites is extortionate. Friends of ours were forced (cajoled) by the family to stay on a well known site in Cornwall the price £38 a night! :scared:


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## marydot (Mar 4, 2013)

We had also planned a couple of weeks in Cornwall, just outside school holidays.  I have e-mailed the address given and explained that we will not now be visiting Cornwall, sampling their local cuisine or visiting their many attractions.  Perhaps more of us should do the same.

Mary


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## antiquesam (Mar 4, 2013)

I've always felt that Cornwall has one interest in the tourist trade and that is the money, they call the tourists a derogatory name and many show very little courtesy, unfortunately the Council thinks along similar lines it would appear.


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## Yogihughes (Mar 4, 2013)

I bought my MH to travel round not sit on a campsite for days or weeks on end.
If I had wanted to do this then I would have bought a caravan!
So, if I spend 1 night on each campsite it will cost me more as there is no discounts for single night occupation.
I believe that a discount of some sort clicks in when you occupy the site for a minimum of 7 nights.

To that end, I will NOT be touring Cornwall, and spend my hard-earned elsewhere.
There's lots in Scotland that I still have to see, mind you, I'm spoiled as I live within 30 mins of Loch Lomond for a start.


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## lotty (Mar 4, 2013)

it's so sad. More and more places are going the same way! It's starting to make me think if it's worth keeping my van? :sad:


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## shortcircuit (Mar 4, 2013)

Had a quick look at the order and I am not a legal eagle but it looks like motor homes are not allowed at any time as it list vehicles that are allowed.  I assume this will apply to my vehicle which is a "Motor Caravan" and also to "white van" whether converted or not?


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## Robmac (Mar 4, 2013)

Email sent


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## Aspire255 (Mar 4, 2013)

Have been to Cornwall many times and it looks like we won’t be going now in the near future because of this ruling. Does this mean then I’m braking the law if I find an isolated spot many miles off the beaten track to park for the night, its very rare I would spend more than one night anywhere.
Vote with you wheels and stay away, its their loss not ours there’s plenty of places we have yet to visit in Wales, Scotland and of course here in England..

Aspire255


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## shortcircuit (Mar 4, 2013)

I email council 

"This topic has recently been discussed in a internet forum and quoting a letter from "Parking Programme Co-ordinator
Transportation Cornwall Council" which states "The ban of motor homes during the night is aimed at making it easier to enforce this long standing restriction on use." which I understand.

When I look at this order I find a list of vehicles that are permitted to use the various car park and no mention is made of "motor homes" which I assume means there are no parking fascilites during the day for motor home

Are there any parking areas for motor homes in this location?"

Will wait and see if I get a reply?


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## wylie66 (Mar 4, 2013)

I feel the need here to inject a bit of common sense. I am a lucky resident of Cornwall and feel that CC do tend to be a bit rubbish with their policies and rules, however they do have a point. Every year we welcome thousands of visitors to Cornwall for the much needed cash injection but we also get a lot of people who don't abide by wild camping etiquette or any other form of social responsibility and openly disrespect our home county, leaving litter and other forms of debris about that we the Council tax payers have to pay for, and don't get me started on that one. I know an awful lot of places in Cornwall you can park up for a night and you won't get moved on, some being off the beaten track some a tad more obvious, it just takes a bit of common sense I am happy to divulge if required.


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## wildman (Mar 4, 2013)

The overnight ban is on parking (occupied or not) in COUNCIL carparks only not the whole of cornwall. The cannot make it the whole of cornwall or they would lose too much business altogether, so arrive late, leave early, one night only and move on, no problem. Whilst motorhomes are not in the permitted vehicles list it is only the overnight parking that is banned, so you can use them during the day.


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## Robmac (Mar 4, 2013)

wylie66 said:


> I feel the need here to inject a bit of common sense. I am a lucky resident of Cornwall and feel that CC do tend to be a bit rubbish with their policies and rules, however they do have a point. Every year we welcome thousands of visitors to Cornwall for the much needed cash injection but we also get a lot of people who don't abide by wild camping etiquette or any other form of social responsibility and openly disrespect our home county, leaving litter and other forms of debris about that we the Council tax payers have to pay for, and don't get me started on that one. I know an awful lot of places in Cornwall you can park up for a night and you won't get moved on, some being off the beaten track some a tad more obvious, it just takes a bit of common sense I am happy to divulge if required.



This happens all over the UK unfortunately and gives us all a bad name, however, many places do not feel the need to discriminate against motorhomers because of it.
What is needed is a system of heavy penalties for the litter louts and abusers as a deterrant. Surely this wouldn't be too hard to police on a council car park, (cameras?). Whereas it would be virtually impossible in the out of the way places.


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## antiquesam (Mar 4, 2013)

The number of car parks I have overnighted in as the only m/h, only to find the place covered in drinks cartons and fast food wrappers in the morning, no doubt this dross gets attributed to the poor motorhomer as well.


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## WildThingsKev (Mar 4, 2013)

I too live in Cornwall and the only council carpark I have overnighted in that will be affected is the large one on the estuary at Looe.  Not too much to worry about really.


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## wylie66 (Mar 4, 2013)

Robmac said:


> This happens all over the UK unfortunately and gives us all a bad name, however, many places do not feel the need to discriminate against motorhomers because of it.
> What is needed is a system of heavy penalties for the litter louts and abusers as a deterrant. Surely this wouldn't be too hard to police on a council car park, (cameras?). Whereas it would be virtually impossible in the out of the way places.



Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that better policing would benefit all, the council just don't have the funds to do it, though it does beg the question as to where the money goes when we have one of the highest council tax rates in the UK, again that is another rant for another day. If we look at France, they openly encourage overnight camping in car parks even at some, providing service facilities for a couple of euros, why CC don't adopt this attitude is beyond my thought process but probably again it all comes down to cost.


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## cooljules (Mar 4, 2013)

i would say its day trippers, with packed sarnies, crips etc who sit in their car all day then dump the stuff out of the window, then bog off back home that do more litter etc.   when i leave in my van no one knows i was ever there....sure we spend more money in a couple of days each place, even if its stocking up bits and a pint or 2 at a local pub.


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## Robmac (Mar 4, 2013)

cooljules said:


> i would say its day trippers, with packed sarnies, crips etc who sit in their car all day then dump the stuff out of the window, then bog off back home that do more litter etc.   when i leave in my van no one knows i was ever there....sure we spend more money in a couple of days each place, even if its stocking up bits and a pint or 2 at a local pub.



Litter is my pet hate. I was in Scotland last week, and just after we passed the sign for the Loch Lomond and Trossachs national Park, I was behind a foreign Lorry. A constant stream of litter flew out of his cab for about 2 or 3 miles, he must have been emptying his litter bin. If it was an english lorry I would have photographed and reported him, but with foreign lorries there is no point as nothing will be done about it.


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## Neckender (Mar 4, 2013)

I will continue having our holidays in France where we're made most wellcome, and as soon as I retire we'll be venturing farther afield.


John.


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## sparrks (Mar 4, 2013)

I was looking to travel down into Cornwall just after the Easter break, I may now reconsider my plans. Was last in Cornwall in 09 but have always felt unease at wilding down there, my favourite area is around St Just and all along the North coast. I have numerous locations I have found but none in the Minack theatre area I wish to explore.

Does anyone know if the South Crofty Mine is still doing the underground tours - I really enjoyed the trip many years ago.


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## wylie66 (Mar 4, 2013)

sparrks said:


> I was looking to travel down into Cornwall just after the Easter break, I may now reconsider my plans. Was last in Cornwall in 09 but have always felt unease at wilding down there, my favourite area is around St Just and all along the North coast. I have numerous locations I have found but none in the Minack theatre area I wish to explore.
> 
> Does anyone know if the South Crofty Mine is still doing the underground tours - I really enjoyed the trip many years ago.



There are a few spots around Minack, again just use common sense. South Crofty no longer run public tours since being bought out and looking to restart commercial mining again. Heartlands though is a nice afternoon out.


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## Deleted member 2636 (Mar 4, 2013)

Seeing that the majority of car parks are council owned, where the **** are you supposed to park?

Not that I'm too bothered as every time I go down to the far West it seems to rain so now I head due South


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## oldish hippy (Mar 4, 2013)

Robmac said:


> Litter is my pet hate. I was in Scotland last week, and just after we passed the sign for the Loch Lomond and Trossachs national Park, I was behind a foreign Lorry. A constant stream of litter flew out of his cab for about 2 or 3 miles, he must have been emptying his litter bin. If it was an english lorry I would have photographed and reported him, but with foreign lorries there is no point as nothing will be done about it.



likwise that is why iwandered around after hogs head just picking up litter and fag ends and disposed of it in a bin as we would like a welcome back and if they can see we take care of places then wqe are mor than likely to be invited back


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## spigot (Mar 4, 2013)

Been to Cornwall many times, never stayed in a carpark, it's not neccessary, there are many fantastic locations to overnight in.

Did think about it last summer, I enquired in a National Trust carpark on the Lizard peninsula & the guy said they turned a blind eye to it, no one checked after hours.

In the end I found a knockout clifftop spot & stayed there 3 nights.

During the day though, one has to use carparks especially at decent beaches.


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## Oasis (Mar 4, 2013)

Emailed them and told them what I thought!


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## Tow Itch (Mar 4, 2013)

Just out of curiosity has anyone found the order? I've opened a coupled of PDF files that weren't the said order. I found this notice that pertains to relate to the order but after a load of speed limit changes referrers to a parking amendment 2011. Which in itself was odd as I thought this was amendment no 3 of 2012.  This Is Notices It's always nice to see the actual order as it's not beyond councils to cock it up alas with on street parking it's harder to challenge that, that is wrong after Neil Herron lost his case over the controlled parking zones.  Neil Herron & Parking Appeals Ltd v The Parking Adjudicator [2011] EWCA Civ 905 | Recent Cases | Monckton Chambers[2011]-ewca-civ-905   http://www.monckton.com/docs/general/Herron&ParkingAppeals2772011.pdf   Councils have constantly cocked things up such as when deciding to apply for authority to pursue traffic violations and policing this by CCTV cameras. Only forgetting to get the necessary permissions from the information commissioners office in respect of data protection. So has someone found the order?


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## robjk (Mar 4, 2013)

I had the same email and have told them they won't be getting trade from me and I will be off to France again !

Rob


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## kimbowbill (Mar 5, 2013)

lotty said:


> it's so sad. More and more places are going the same way! It's starting to make me think if it's worth keeping my van? :sad:



Shut up woman

what you do is, go visit these places, but park just a bit inland overnight, then go down the sea front as early as possible and stay all day, don't spend a single penny, stuff em, if they really think that by banning  MH's in car parks overnight is going to force people on campsites they really are stupid, iust go and park outside a Guest house, nobody can stop you, as they have said int he email, they can't prove you are sleeping in your van, simples :wave:


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## phillybarbour (Mar 5, 2013)

Look forward to hearing from anyone who goes to Cornwall in the next few months, I'd be surprised if you get moved from a quiet location.


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## dave and mary (Mar 5, 2013)

Well Cornwall I think you have shot your self in the foot. We have just been sorting a rout out to visit Cornwall, due to family illness we can not go to Europe at the moment. The Eden project plus other things were on our list, intended to spend at least 3 weeks there. Not now if we are not wonted thats ok by me, we will spend our money some where else. Any suggestions friends ?  :drive:   :drive:


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## MATS (Mar 5, 2013)

*Cornwall Council - No idea about campsite charges*

https://democracy.cornwall.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=706&MId=4015&Ver=4

https://democracy.cornwall.gov.uk/d...binet - Parking Policy Advisory Panel.pdf?T=1


The links above refer to council meeting re campervans.  Minutes states that campsites offer overnight parking for approx £10 per night.  Goes to show they live in the eighties and nobody really has done any research into this.


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## Firefox (Mar 5, 2013)

As per Jen's comment, what's the fascination with sleeping in council carparks anyway? There are loads of other places to park up and sleep for free.


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## wylie66 (Mar 5, 2013)

phillybarbour said:


> Look forward to hearing from anyone who goes to Cornwall in the next few months, I'd be surprised if you get moved from a quiet location.


Philly

As I have mentioned I live in Cornwall, I also drive a very conspicuous 28ft motorhome, nothing stealth about it at all, yet I have done 3 nights wild camping in it this year so far. there are plenty of places right by the beach to wildcamp and even more inland slightly, just make sure you move every day to avoid suspicion. Those that do police certain spots usually turn a blind eye especially if offered a brew and cake.


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## wildman (Mar 5, 2013)

dave and mary said:


> Well Cornwall I think you have shot your self in the foot. We have just been sorting a rout out to visit Cornwall, due to family illness we can not go to Europe at the moment. The Eden project plus other things were on our list, intended to spend at least 3 weeks there. Not now if we are not wonted thats ok by me, we will spend our money some where else. Any suggestions friends ? :drive: :drive:



come and visit Devon m'dear, tis much more welcoming, and the pasties are better as well, hee hee


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## MATS (Mar 5, 2013)

Firefox said:


> As per Jen's comment, what's the fascination with sleeping in council carparks anyway? There are loads of other places to park up and sleep for free.



Yes but sometimes I and many others like to visit town/villages and spend a few pounds and have a meal and drink etc esp weekends.  In machynleth in Mid wales the council allows 1 night in 7 - you can park up and walk into town for the evening which is nice.  The council gets revenue from the  car park, the pubs/cafes/resteraunts gain and we are all happy - win-win all round - but for Cornwall is Lose-Lose.....


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## Debroos (Mar 5, 2013)

If I remember rightly didn't the council car park have a special overnight rate for motorhomes with owners sleeping in them?
Has that been rescinded does anyone know?


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## Firefox (Mar 5, 2013)

MATS said:


> Yes but sometimes I and many others like to visit town/villages and spend a few pounds and have a meal and drink etc esp weekends.  In machynleth in Mid wales the council allows 1 night in 7 - you can park up and walk into town for the evening which is nice.  The council gets revenue from the  car park, the pubs/cafes/resteraunts gain and we are all happy - win-win all round - but for Cornwall is Lose-Lose.....



Just park up in the town on the streets, or in the suburbs, or on an industrial estate road, or in Tesco's car park, or in a layby ... loads of places that are not Council Car parks. If they don't want the revenue then don't give it to them.


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## sparrks (Mar 5, 2013)

Firefox said:


> As per Jen's comment, what's the fascination with sleeping in council carparks anyway? There are loads of other places to park up and sleep for free.





MATS said:


> Yes but sometimes I and many others like to visit town/villages and spend a few pounds and have a meal and drink etc esp weekends.  In machynleth in Mid wales the council allows 1 night in 7 - you can park up and walk into town for the evening which is nice.  The council gets revenue from the  car park, the pubs/cafes/resteraunts gain and we are all happy - win-win all round - but for Cornwall is Lose-Lose.....




I agree most times I like to be as far away from carparks as possible including rural ones. There are occasions when 1 night in a centrally located carpark is desireable.


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## Teutone (Mar 5, 2013)

stupid rules / laws or whatever.

If you don't go to Cornwall (or other places) and don't spend your money there, who do you think you hurt most?

The SMALL BUSINESS owners, the restaurant owner, the pub owner. None off them was responsible for the parking ban.

Just a thought.


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## jogguk (Mar 5, 2013)

I would like to know what criteria they will use to define 'Motorhome'  'Campervan'

I mean a fixed roof Bongo is an MPV right? A VW Caravelle is a MPV. A 12 seater minibus? A plain van with no windows. 

So what are they saying anything that does not look like a family saloon? Wait a minute, a Nissan pickup with a hardshell top, an estate car. Car with a box trailer with a window and a bed in it is allowed

What if want to do a bit of night time sea fishing at the beach then I can only turn up in a car? Isn't this discrimination?

John


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## antiquesam (Mar 5, 2013)

Teutone said:


> stupid rules / laws or whatever.
> 
> If you don't go to Cornwall (or other places) and don't spend your money there, who do you think you hurt most?
> 
> ...



Surely they elect the Council on the basis that those Councillors have similar views to themselves.


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## Sparks (Mar 5, 2013)

.


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## Firefox (Mar 5, 2013)

Teutone said:


> stupid rules / laws or whatever.
> 
> If you don't go to Cornwall (or other places) and don't spend your money there, who do you think you hurt most?
> 
> ...



So they find trade is down and they tell the council to get their act sorted out re motorhomephobia


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## Tow Itch (Mar 5, 2013)

dave and mary said:


> Well Cornwall I think you have shot your self in the foot. We have just been sorting a rout out to visit Cornwall, due to family illness we can not go to Europe at the moment. The Eden project plus other things were on our list, intended to spend at least 3 weeks there. Not now if we are not wonted thats ok by me, we will spend our money some where else. Any suggestions friends ?  :drive:   :drive:



 Similar thought to Firefox.
 If you're going to make the effort to write don't just write to the council,it will be water of a ducks back. Write to 1/2 dozen or dozen of the attractions you won't visit. If this coincides with a downturn in trade you can be sure of activity from them. Or you could ask them what are the chances of them opening up their parking facilities in the evenings?

 Local businesses will get the brunt of a reduction in throughput but the big businesses are the movers and shakers.

 Logic, local opinion or even economics don't matter. Carlisle council lost local businesses tens if not hundreds of thousands of pounds a year and charity tens of thousands for £8,000 per year from DFRA. Home  So what it only costs the local plebs.


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## dave and mary (Mar 5, 2013)

Tow Itch said:


> Similar thought to Firefox.
> If you're going to make the effort to write don't just write to the council,it will be water of a ducks back. Write to 1/2 dozen or dozen of the attractions you won't visit. If this coincides with a downturn in trade you can be sure of activity from them. Or you could ask them what are the chances of them opening up their parking facilities in the evenings?
> 
> Local businesses will get the brunt of a reduction in throughput but the big businesses are the movers and shakers.
> ...



I am doing that right now sent an email to Cornwall CC and copies to places we intended to visit ie The Eden Project etc   :drive:  :drive:


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## wylie66 (Mar 5, 2013)

wildman said:


> come and visit Devon m'dear, tis much more welcoming, and the pasties are better as well, hee hee


matter of opinion me 'ansum


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## Marthe (Mar 5, 2013)

*Cornwall - stopping motorhomes from parking overnight*

Hi,

I read this thread with interest and have written an email to Cornwall Council as a result. I agree with the suggestion made that if many of us wrote to them then we may be able to make an impact on their operating policy. I will post up their reply, should they send one. My email to them is as follows, I hope it inspires other people to make a response to them as well:

Parking Programme Co-ordinator
Transportation
Cornwall Council

0300 1234 222
parking@cornwall.gov.uk
Cornwall Council - Home Page

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have been dismayed to learn that, as a council, you have decided to effectively stop any motorhome users from visiting Cornwall, unless using one of the camp sites. Many motorhome owners have a preference for not being on campsites, this is about freedom of choice and also because the whole point in buying a motorhome is to be self-sufficient.  Caravanners use campsites, this is why they buy caravans. 

The cost of a motorhome is significantly more expensive than a caravan; the point of having one is to be able to access points of interest within an area being visited and to sample local foods, to buy local crafts and to visit many events and shows. Most motorhome owners spend far more money supporting these local ventures than, say, caravan owners do. 

As a motorhome owner, I will not be visiting Cornwall again whilst you are demonstrating such reluctance to support your tourism industry; this will mean that the revenue I have previously brought into the county will now be spent elsewhere. I feel that many other motorhome owners will share these expressed views and I sincerely hope you have opportunity to reflect on your short-sighted decision. As your intention has now generated considerable interest within the motorhoming community, I intend to post the contents of this email onto a thread within the motorhome group which I belong to. I will also post your reply, this will give you opportunity to address nearly 11,000 motorhome owners with your considered response. 

Yours faithfully, etc


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## Neckender (Mar 5, 2013)

Marthe said:


> Hi,
> 
> I read this thread with interest and have written an email to Cornwall Council as a result. I agree with the suggestion made that if many of us wrote to them then we may be able to make an impact on their operating policy. I will post up their reply, should they send one. My email to them is as follows, I hope it inspires other people to make a response to them as well:
> 
> ...



Ive sent one off too with this added,

 I used to have our annual holidays every year in Cornwall when my family were a lot younger, but since owning our motorhome I have to take our holidays in France where we are much appreciated.

John.


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## Dream Catcher (Mar 5, 2013)

Viktor said:


> Hi All.
> 
> For information I received this email today.
> 
> ...



I have read the amendment, but there are are a lot off other privatly owned car park where this is not a problem.


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## oldish hippy (Mar 5, 2013)

so what i will do is stop on single yellow line overnight where there is no parking restriction out side the aforesaid carparks and then they will not be happy and will upset the locals as for using the high quality facilities then if ido so then wont have the money to spend locally rather go somewherewe are made welcome and spend the money there


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## dave and mary (Mar 6, 2013)

I now wait and hope some one will come back to me. I wrote to Cornwall CC stating that i have canceled my 3 week trip to Cornwall, as it appears we are not welcome there. And copies to 6 of the main attractions we were due to visit, the Cornishman newspaper, and BBB local. :drive:  :drive:


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## n brown (Mar 6, 2013)

i went there once and was treated abysmally everywhere and swore then,20 years ago, i'd never make the same mistake again. the attitude towards tourists was basically,how deep are your pockets,grockle?


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## MATS (Mar 6, 2013)

*Letter to Council Cabinet*

Here is the one I sent, got a reply from Councillor Wallis saying he will come back to me with a more detailed response.  Anyone else found a campsite in Cornwall for £10......




Dear Councillor Wallis and members of the Cabinet


http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums...all-enshrines-no-overnighting-into-law-4.html

 The link above refers to a motorhome (MH) community website who are now actively discussing your new motor home parking policies and the general view for us now is to avoid Cornwall. Many MH users like myself will often visit areas like Cornwall but if it becomes too difficult to park we will find other areas in the UK  or abroad who are are far more understanding of our needs. Yes we like to park up where we please but we also bring a huge amount of much needed money into your area. On the site I am on, there are 32,000 members and many more thousands of free members. We are not all hippies (albeit there are some) but generally we are pretty well-off and will spend in pubs, restaurants, tourist attractions and shops. Many of us prefer to stop overnight in villages and towns but it seems you are not in favour of this. In fact it is clear you do not even need us there during the day neither.   Are you able to expand a bit further on your policy and where are we expected to park in Cornwall.  



Users of MHs do use campsites on a regular basis so we can have water, empty toilets etc but we are not going to pay £25+ every night - that is not in our ethos; the charges are unreasonable and therefore many of us avoid sites. Moreover in your recent meeting in Jan 13 you state that camping is available for £10 per night. This is not correct unless you can provide evidence of this - the cost can be between £20 and £30. Please can you re-raise this point at the next meeting as this sways the decision process followed in your meeting.



https://democracy.cornwall.gov.uk/do...0Panel.pdf?T=1

You also need to note that the problem you have these days is you may think that you are preventing a few MHs visiting Cornwall, but in fact you are sending out a clear message to all MH users throughout the UK who share this information freely. The website I am on is one of many, similar threads appear on those as well. MH users who visit provide a constant drip of money to the local economy but it seems you do not want this.  Scotland has a much better attitude with MH users and is the place of choice for many MH users, as is Wales. Powys Council in Mid Wales even allow motorhomes 1 night in 7 in all of their car parks for £2! You are effectively throttling back the tourist economy bit by bit by implementing this new policy. Furthermore, MH users tend to travel even in Winter - but you prefer to have empty car parks? 


Can you please provide me therefore with your viewpoint on the issue I have raised  and why you are insistent on preventing MH visiting Cornwall.  Can you also let me know of any campsites in Cornwall who can offer overnight MH parking for £10 - I can pass this information on to the various websites. 



yours sincerely


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## oldish hippy (Mar 6, 2013)

why travel all that distance if you are not going to be made welcome as cornwall for a lot of people is a one off holiday because of the distance and cornwall has some nice attractions to please all sort of people


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## Mastodon (Mar 6, 2013)

Email sent. Waiting to hear details of Shangri La aka the tenner  a night site...


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## kenjones (Mar 6, 2013)

If we go to Cornwall and spend a couple of weeks driving around that is at least 1000miles which is over £200 for diesel before we start the holiday. With fuel prices at an all time high councils should be encouraging people to come and spend not keeping them away with extra rules and inflated site fees.
Cornwall has a history of piracy. It would appear that this is still the case.


----------



## oldish hippy (Mar 6, 2013)

Mastodon said:


> Email sent. Waiting to hear details of Shangri La aka the tenner  a night site...



yep it will be council run with no running water no toilet block except a hole in the ground with a shack made up of used car park signs as they have to do something with the old ones and it will be on a 1 in 4 slope waterlogged at the bottom flat piece big enough for one may be two vans and a telephone number for the council to pull you out at 25 pound a time and will have gates that are locked at dusk and not opened till ten in the morning  and the bins will only be emptied once a fortnight the ten pound a night site fee is for vans under 12 feet in length and then there is a charge for awnings ,dogs, and  kids,
no fires allowed except in the barbeque area which is at the top of the slope and please keep the noise down sign after 8 pm there was plans for a swimming pool but health and saftey said they could not have one all staff are regonised by there dayglo vest and there jobsworth hats  due to cut back the staff all look the same as they have to share uniforms between the four staff so the person with a hairy beard and wearing a skirt isnt a drag queen or the bearded lady


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## Viktor (Mar 6, 2013)

Personally Cornwall has now gone to the bottom of my list of locations to visit as well.  If I go that far it will be to Devon where we are more welcome.  Cornwall local businesses such as restaurants, pubs, hotels, and other attractions have just lost my custom now as well.

Apart from the short sightness, I can see huge problems for motorhomers using any of these council car parks.  For example there will now be a 'drive' to enforce this no motorhomes overnight parking and the council are going to be looking to make examples of some of us.

So lets say you park in one of these car parks and attend a late function, cinema show etc, or it's a weekend night and you return to your MH after 11.30pm.  Will you find some jobsworth anxious to 'enforce' this new order has slapped a ticket on your vehicle even though you had no intention of staying there overnight?  What do you do then? - it takes a lot of time and trouble to try and appeal these dammed things and most MH's aren't local and haven't the time or want the hassle of trying to prove their innocence.

Like most other's I'd use a campsite perhaps once every 3 - 4 days for services, and washing clothes etc so the rest of the time I'm looking to park up quietly and enjoy the local hospitality.  I'm not a caravan.

Personally I'm just going to avoid the whole scenario and not bother.  Bye Bye Cornwall, my money goes to someone elsel!


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## mikejay (Mar 6, 2013)

Last summer we spent 2 weeks touring around devon and got down as far as Tintagel. Tintagel is a small place but they have i think 3 big carparks that allow mh parking. Why can't they take a look there i never seen no problems of rubbish or anything.But if they don't like mh like scarborough then i will not visit again.


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## Debroos (Mar 6, 2013)

mikejay said:


> Last summer we spent 2 weeks touring around devon and got down as far as Tintagel. Tintagel is a small place but they have i think 3 big carparks that allow mh parking. Why can't they take a look there i never seen no problems of rubbish or anything.But if they don't like mh like scarborough then i will not visit again.



to make it worse Tintagel IS in Cornwall!!!!


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## jogguk (Mar 6, 2013)

Debroos said:


> to make it worse Tintagel IS in Cornwall!!!!




And worse still the one opposite the visitor centre, near the chip shop is a Council carpark with a specific M/H overnight fee:mad1: Not sure if overnight was ever allowed on the Council carpark adjacent to the visitor centre though. 

Still there are  a few other private carparks here at nightly charges of £3.00  and £3.50 a night (last years prices)

John


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## cooljules (Mar 6, 2013)

if your too tired to safetly drive, or have a condition where you need medication and dont feel upto driving, what can they do?????????????


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## MATS (Mar 6, 2013)

cooljules said:


> if your too tired to safetly drive, or have a condition where you need medication and dont feel upto driving, what can they do?????????????



Man in big hat comes and gives you a ticket, you then die later but Cornwall Council will claim off your estate - that's the kinda of place it has become - avoid


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## dave and mary (Mar 7, 2013)

Well that is now 24 hours since i sent my emails to Cornwall CC and others to places of interest to visit, newspapers, local tv. With no replies from any one of them, apart from an automatic received from Cornwall CC.

So it appearers they are not interested about loosing the visitors and loss of income to local traders, so as others have said bye bye Cornwall.  :drive:  :drive:


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## mikejay (Mar 7, 2013)

Debroos said:


> to make it worse Tintagel IS in Cornwall!!!!



I know thats what i mean can they not follow from Tintagel as its in Cornwall.


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## Debroos (Mar 7, 2013)

mikejay said:


> I know thats what i mean can they not follow from Tintagel as its in Cornwall.



That would be much too sensible and open minded!
Do you remember the eclipse? Cornwall's golden opportunity to be hosts and make some profit too. What did the suits do? they put loads of messages out saying 'don't come, there will be gridlock, Cornwall won't cope'. The result? No one came, even the usual summer tourists, loads of empty campsites all over the place. Lots of businesses stocked up in readiness so lost out bigtime...Apparently Van Morrison played to an audience of less than a hundred....
When it comes to shortsightedness they really are very, very good.  :wacko:


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## Amethyst (Mar 7, 2013)

Debroos said:


> That would be much too sensible and open minded!
> Do you remember the eclipse? Cornwall's golden opportunity to be hosts and make some profit too. What did the suits do? they put loads of messages out saying 'don't come, there will be gridlock, Cornwall won't cope'. The result? No one came, even the usual summer tourists, loads of empty campsites all over the place. Lots of businesses stocked up in readiness so lost out bigtime...Apparently Van Morrison played to an audience of less than a hundred....
> When it comes to shortsightedness they really are very, very good.  :wacko:



It was most of the businesses adding on an "eclipse" tax to their already greedy high season prices that stopped us going


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## AndyC (Mar 7, 2013)

jogguk said:


> And worse still the one opposite the visitor centre, near the chip shop is a Council carpark with a specific M/H overnight fee:mad1: Not sure if overnight was ever allowed on the Council carpark adjacent to the visitor centre though.
> 
> Still there are  a few other private carparks here at nightly charges of £3.00  and £3.50 a night (last years prices)
> 
> John


John, is the car park opposite the Visitor Centre council owned? It doesn't appear as such on their website. The VC car park definitely does not allow 'sleeping or overnight camping'.

I think the one opposite the old Post Office has permitted development rights for camping, by virtue of existing use pre 1960. Not sure about any of the other privately owned car parks, I suspect they don't have permission but the council are turning a blind eye.

AndyC


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## wylie66 (Mar 7, 2013)

Crikey talk about narrow minded views, come on Cornwall has an abundance of free places to visit and stay, and I will reiterate IF YOU KNOW WHERE TO LOOK. As for comments about car parks and having tickets slapped on at 11.30 at night, again you don't know Cornwall that well, the private car parks are better enforced than CC owned ones. After all the cuts they don't have enough resources to patrol all the car parks in the day, they definitely don't patrol them that late at night.

I must also take a stance with regard the greedy businesses increasing prices etc.. What you have to realise is we rely heavily on tourism to make a living, try getting a job in Cornwall between October and March, as such businesses do have to charge a bit more and make the most of every opportunity to make a bit more to last through the lean months. CC are prone to making stupid mistakes and policies including the message don't come to Cornwall because of Gridlock, however we have only really one main arterial road into Cornwall which is dual carriageway except for a few miles at Temple near Bodmin, anyone who has visited in the peak of summer will know where I am on about and the chaos associated with this stretch. Fortunately CC have have now got their act together and are converting this to a dual carriage way commencing next year.


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## Deleted member 19733 (Mar 7, 2013)

Viktor said:


> Hi All.
> 
> For information I received this email today.
> 
> ...



According to the Cornwall Chamber of Commerce website, £60m is to be invested in developing Enterprize zone to promote more business. Don't the 2 bodies talk to each other???:rolleyes2:


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## antiquesam (Mar 7, 2013)

wylie66 said:


> Crikey talk about narrow minded views, come on Cornwall has an abundance of free places to visit and stay, and I will reiterate IF YOU KNOW WHERE TO LOOK.
> 
> 
> That is the problem, without this forum nobody who is not a local doesn't know "where to look" and can spend a lot on fuel looking.


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## jogguk (Mar 7, 2013)

AndyC said:


> John, is the car park opposite the Visitor Centre council owned? It doesn't appear as such on their website. The VC car park definitely does not allow 'sleeping or overnight camping'.
> 
> I think the one opposite the old Post Office has permitted development rights for camping, by virtue of existing use pre 1960. Not sure about any of the other privately owned car parks, I suspect they don't have permission but the council are turning a blind eye.
> 
> AndyC



I always thought the CP opposite the visitor centre was Council, maybe I got it wrong Anyway, it had/has a tariff for self contained M/H's seen vans overnight here but not stayed myself as I prefer the other two (closer to the pub and the indian restaurant)
:tongue:

I like this one Mayfair Car Park. It has grass parking and I can throw a ball for the dog, been using this and 'King Arthur's Arms' car park for 5 years or more.

There is the site 'Headland Camping & Caravan Park' further along the road too.

John


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## sparrks (Mar 7, 2013)

Has anybody used the small campsite at Bossiney just out of Tintagel recently? great little site.


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## Randonneur (Mar 7, 2013)

Cornwall does'nt need motorhomers, caravanners, grockles or any other "outsiders" visiting as its' been bought out by London money!

Why bother fleecing grockles, when you can charge mega money for a hovel with a view of the sea ten miles away? Who cares if most of the smaller towns and villages are empty for 11 months of the year because their owners are earning their next years banking bonus to buy yet more of cornwall and keep it empty???

The councils won't complain, they're still getting their property and council taxes, and its' guaranteed money, unlike relying on tourists visiting!

As others have said, if Cornwall don't want us I'll go somewhere that does. Somehow I don't think Cornwall Council are going to lose any sleep over the loss of a few ( thousand ) non visiting motorhomers.


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## wylie66 (Mar 8, 2013)

antiquesam said:


> wylie66 said:
> 
> 
> > Crikey talk about narrow minded views, come on Cornwall has an abundance of free places to visit and stay, and I will reiterate IF YOU KNOW WHERE TO LOOK.
> ...



Some may say waste of fuel others may just call it an adventure


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## wylie66 (Mar 8, 2013)

Far all of those that are complaining about Cornwall and being non welcoming, then please by all means stay away it truly is your loss, those that want to come and visit, most of us will welcome you with open arms and even meet up with you on your travels for a cup of tea, some cake and even a hint of where to stay.

True there are many things about Cornwall that need to be changed but sometimes it is better to find a way round an obstacle rather than waste time and energy knocking it down. There are plenty of places to wild camp safely and without hindrance, there also plenty of campsites that are relatively cheap I know of at least 4 that charge £15 all in per night. 

So keep harping on about Cornwall Council and their anti motorhome views it really won't change things, or just accept it and find other and usually nicer places to go.


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## sean rua (Mar 8, 2013)

Though now broken down with sickness and age, I'm always travelling about and spending far more time on some other man's land  than on my own.

 That said, my conclusion, drawn from long experience over many miles, is that
*tourism* rarely benefits the local, native, indigenous folk of *any *place. Generally, I think it does more harm than good.

This is partly bc there is usually a class of intermediaries ( the middlemen) who come in and, not only take over, but also take the lion's share of any revenue generated. This group will think of themselves as great entrepreneurs and pillars of the local community, but, imo, this is rarely the actual case.

Just something to ponder when talking about places like Cornwall. We should not forget that outsiders, right from Julius Caesar onwards, have hardly done them ( the Cornish) any favours over the millenia. The mine-owners raped the place and just used and dumped in accordance with economics, no doubt all the time telling the world what great benefactors they were for doing all this.
 In fact, not a bit of wonder the Cornish have ended up  being the most miserable of all the Celtic Nations, with the possibly exception of the Bretons, who strike me as being a bit down at mouth too.

Finally, btw, in Cornwall, they ( the tourists) are not called "grockles" but "emmets" ( spelling doubtful).
 "Grockles" is a term used by the Devonites to describe their fellow Englishmen who invade their county at times of tourism.

 Basically, it all stems from the universal wariness towards outsiders that is prevalent throughout humans across the globe. When feeling threatened, always hit out at the Stranger, being the motto. A similar reaction can also be found in dogs.
 There is nothing that can be done about this, fundamentally, as 'tis a natural drive ( self-protection), but I suppose we have a thing called "society" that provides the necessary "muzzles and leashes" through something called "politeness" and "self-control".

So write all you like, the facts remain that
a) there is too much traffic on the roads
b) the economy is bust.

At the end of the day, money talks, and one thing the Cornish are good at is grabbing and hoarding as much of it as they can, by any means, be it ripping tourists, piracy, or ship-wrecking.

Anyway, where is VWalan when we want him? His take on all this would be informative.


sean rua


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## WildThingsKev (Mar 8, 2013)

I haven't read all of this thread but has anybody had a look at the Cornwall POI's to see just how many of them relate to council carparks?  

Might be a lot of fuss about nothing.


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## wylie66 (Mar 8, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> :scared: £105 per week!! Hardly the ethos of a wild camping site????????? :anyone:



Couldn't have said it better myself, but it is better than the £35 a night some places charge, anyway it is good to have a stay on a site sometimes so you can use their water electricity etc and replenish your vehicles utilities


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## wylie66 (Mar 8, 2013)

Anyway the sun is shining it is a balmy 11 degrees and it is the weekend, time for a couple of nights away me thinks..


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## jogguk (Mar 8, 2013)

kevina said:


> I haven't read all of this thread but has anybody had a look at the Cornwall POI's to see just how many of them relate to council carparks?
> 
> Might be a lot of fuss about nothing.



Well, the good ones in Bude for a start and Widemouth Bay:mad1: 

Their 2012 signage was far from clear. There was a 24hr tariff but, the parking was free from 18.00 to 09.00 hrs.??? I always got a 4hr ticket at 4pm ish, which when printed out  showed until  11- 12 am next day:bow:

There was no mention on the signs (unlike the previous NDCC signs) of 'no sleeping etc'  For the council to enforce a no sleeping thing then the offence must be listed on the sign in the 'TMA' small print which it wasn't.

This is the early 2012 sign at The Wharf Bude, make of it what you will. I've parked here overnight.















What do the new signs look like?

John


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## Viktor (Mar 8, 2013)

The point was I believe that Motorhomes would no longer be allowed to park in Council car parks overnight.  Doesn't affect long stay overnight car parking.  If your a MH / Campervan you will be 'enforced' if caught with a ticket (empty or not).



> The ban of motor homes during the night is aimed at making it easier to enforce this long standing restriction on use.



So you have to wildcamp away from easy walking distance of attractions and eating establishments unless you are lucky to find a hotel or pub willing to allow you to overnight in their private car park, or perhaps a BritStop.  I didn't buy a Campervan to pay £105 a week on a site....the odd day at £15 - £20 is acceptable but at my choice when and where, otherwise I'm saving nothing with driving extra distances and risking a ticket.  I don't want the hassle of leaving an attraction to get my MH/Camervan out of a car park before I get slapped with a ticket and then have to drive away a distance just to spend the night...might as well just go somewhere else where I don't have that challenge.


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## Robmac (Mar 8, 2013)

wylie66 said:


> ...............So keep harping on about Cornwall Council and their anti motorhome views it really won't change things, or just accept it and find other and usually nicer places to go.



Sometimes it is better to air your views rather than just accept every decision.


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## dave and mary (Mar 8, 2013)

Well what an interesting topic this has been, as i said right at the beginning we have canceled our 3 weeks in Cornwall ( and i know many will say thats up to us and we will be the looser ). Due to family illness this year we have to stay in England and Cornwall was the first trip of the year. When the topic started i felt quite annoyed and disappointed with a decision made by a few that is going to affect so many traders in Cornwall. After spending time sending about 10 emails to large attractions, newspapers and Cornwall CC and only receiving one reply that was a automated reply from CCC, I do not think we will be missing much, if it is to much trouble to reply to an email, it just proves we are not wonted. I must just say we know a lot of Cornish people ( many met on our travels abroad ) and they are wonderfull people, so to the people we were going to visit sorry, but we will see you in Europe where we are made more welcome.  :drive:  :drive:


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## Canalsman (Mar 8, 2013)

kevina said:


> I haven't read all of this thread but has anybody had a look at the Cornwall POI's to see just how many of them relate to council carparks?
> 
> Might be a lot of fuss about nothing.



I have just removed from the POIs the following Cornwall County Council operated car parks:

Bude
Penzance
Porthcurno
Porthleven
St Just in Roseland
St Mawes
Tintagel Visitor Centre


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## jogguk (Mar 8, 2013)

POI Admin said:


> I have just removed from the POIs the following Cornwall County Council operated car parks:
> 
> Bude
> Penzance
> ...



Is this not a bit premature? Until the Council change the signs in their carparks the old rules apply I would expect.

John


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## Canalsman (Mar 8, 2013)

jogguk said:


> Is this not a bit premature? Until the Council change the signs in their carparks the old rules apply I would expect.
> 
> John



As quoted above:

_'the new Order was made on the 20th February 2013 and will come into force on 15th March 2013'_

So by the time of the next POI release at the beginning of April, these car parks will no longer be suitable for overnighting ...


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## WildThingsKev (Mar 8, 2013)

POI Admin said:


> I have just removed from the POIs the following Cornwall County Council operated car parks:
> 
> Bude
> Penzance
> ...



So; 7 carparks.  Just out of curiosity roughly how many other Cornwall POI's?


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## sss (Mar 8, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Does the delete work with updates or do they have to be manually removed?




you delete the files off your computer and then reload the new database


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## Canalsman (Mar 9, 2013)

kevina said:


> So; 7 carparks.  Just out of curiosity roughly how many other Cornwall POI's?



About 130 ...


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## screevin (Mar 9, 2013)

POI Admin said:


> About 130 ...



Pssst, wanna buy some more?


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## jogguk (Mar 9, 2013)

kevina said:


> So; 7 carparks.  Just out of curiosity roughly how many other Cornwall POI's?




Guess about 30+.  (don't know how to filter by county in excel as the csv file has no county field) 

Though some of of those carparks mentioned above I wouldn't use anyway. Tintagel Visitor Centre definitely has prohibitting signs and Penzance is horrifically expensive to park :mad2:

Bude has 4 Council carparks: Summerleaze, The Wharf, Crooklets and another big one close to the hotels.  All easy walk to all amenities pubs, clubs and restaurants.  If it is a blanket ban just where do they think M/H's can park in the evening as very limited street parking?

John


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## screevin (Mar 9, 2013)

Expensive caravan parks apparently. Just avoid the place, it's too damned overcrowded anyway.


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## jogguk (Mar 9, 2013)

screevin said:


> Expensive caravan parks apparently. Just avoid the place, it's too damned overcrowded anyway.



That's the point I'm making. The caravan parks are not close to the town So you have to get a taxi in to town and back (more expense:mad1 and not always convienient if you have a dog you want to leave in the van.

John


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## wylie66 (Mar 9, 2013)

wylie66 said:


> Crikey talk about narrow minded views, come on Cornwall has an abundance of free places to visit and stay, and I will reiterate IF YOU KNOW WHERE TO LOOK.



As I said previously there are plenty of places to overnight without charge and usually close to a town or eating place of some sort. 

Anyone coming to Cornwall and want some pointers I am happy to meet up/chat and guide you


----------



## jogguk (Mar 9, 2013)

wylie66 said:


> As I said previously there are plenty of places to overnight without charge and usually close to a town or eating place of some sort.
> 
> Anyone coming to Cornwall and want some pointers I am happy to meet up/chat and guide you



I've Been bringing my M/H's to Cornwall at least once a year for the past 30 years, it is a fabulous place and we always have a great time.  A stupid Council bylaw isn't gonna stop us unloading some of our disposable income :sad:   I can work around that, have no shortage of alternative places AND favorite campsites to stop at.

I just have big problem with Cornwall Council and the way they discriminate and alienate certain types of tourists, the last few times we've come down I thought attitudes were a bit more relaxed, probably because previously they told everybody to stay away :mad1:

How is the Council going to enforce their silly ruling then? Unless they have access to the DVLA database to check vehicles registered as 'Motorcaravan'. Otherwise a lot of campervan looking vehicles (minibiuses, MPV's, window vans,  disability conversion vans) are going to be victims as well.

 It is a silly little law, with no hope of enforcement (without costing more money than it's worth to do it!) Misguidedly created to pacify Caravan site owners who got the hump over falling tourist numbers.

 John


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## wylie66 (Mar 9, 2013)

jogguk said:


> I've Been bringing my M/H's to Cornwall at least once a year for the past 30 years, it is a fabulous place and we always have a great time.  A stupid Council bylaw isn't gonna stop us unloading some of our disposable income :sad:   I can work around that, have no shortage of alternative places AND favorite campsites to stop at.
> 
> I just have big problem with Cornwall Council and the way they discriminate and alienate certain types of tourists, the last few times we've come down I thought attitudes were a bit more relaxed, probably because previously they told everybody to stay away :mad1:
> 
> ...



The Council aren't going to enforce their law, they haven't the resources to do it, most peripheral car parks are probably visited once a day, if you're lucky, by wardens those that are frequented more often will still be free of the enforcers!! by about 6.30pm. As for anpr equipped vehicles, well let us just say that Cornwall is a tad behind the times with regard ANPR unless you are a private company. 

Lastly with regard your comment about caravan site owners, you may have your facts wrong. I do a lot of work for a lot of caravan and camping sites in Cornwall and I can quite safely say that the majority have seen a year on year increase in bookings this year being no different despite the atrocious weather last summer.


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## jogguk (Mar 9, 2013)

wylie66 said:


> Lastly with regard your comment about caravan site owners, you may have your facts wrong. I do a lot of work for a lot of caravan and camping sites in Cornwall and I can quite safely say that the majority have seen a year on year increase in bookings this year being no different despite the atrocious weather last summer.





Well maybe, I don't have the exact number of increasing visitors to caravan sites. Usually I travel out of high season,  just before or just after Easter and late September.  See a lot of empty sites then even big caravan parks around Newquay.
What I do see is very fast growth year on year in self catering holiday cottages, apartments, log cabins etc.,  though hard to tell how many are being fully booked. 

I also love listening to local radio stations and particularly the banter on Radio Cornwall, so don't bother taking CD's with me any more as the radio is always on! There is usually some discussion or other on failing tourism figures in one sector or other, oh, and carpark charges.

A bit off topic for this thread perhaps but why are so many caravan sites (not just Cornwall) stuck in a time warp with a car/caravan mentality when more than  50% of their bookings could be M/H's? They need to get with the programme and provide  easy drive up to water fill up, grey waste AND black waste disposal points. I can tell you there are pitiful few of then in Cornwall

John


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## johnmac185 (Mar 9, 2013)

dave and mary said:


> Well Cornwall I think you have shot your self in the foot. We have just been sorting a rout out to visit Cornwall, due to family illness we can not go to Europe at the moment. The Eden project plus other things were on our list, intended to spend at least 3 weeks there. Not now if we are not wonted thats ok by me, we will spend our money some where else. Any suggestions friends ?  :drive:   :drive:



hello dave and mary,
what about Scotland,, i have spoken to visitors from Cumbria and 
Northumbria who have not visited Scotland until recent years and they have been completely blown away by some of the magnificent scenery, 
come to Scotland-you'll like it,,,John
ps .sounds like an advert,,,,


----------



## Viktor (Mar 9, 2013)

> with no hope of enforcement (without costing more money than it's worth to do it!)



The problem is you'll just get slapped with a ticket.  Unless you appeal it and they are in wrong, you will win.  You will however spend time and hassle fighting your corner......if you don't appeal, the alternative is to just pay up.  If you just decide you aren't paying because your vehicle isn't a motorhome for example, you are still going to have a problem.

So even if the warden issued the ticket wrongly. (or even perhaps in unsure circumstances), it's still up to you to fight your corner or pay up. Your appeal is likely to be at least 3 weeks away or more of course  by which time you may be hundreds of miles away and it's going to cost you 10 times more than the ticket to fight it.  There is no provision to reclaim any expences incurred in the appeal if you win.


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## dave and mary (Mar 9, 2013)

johnmac185 said:


> hello dave and mary,
> what about Scotland,, i have spoken to visitors from Cumbria and
> Northumbria who have not visited Scotland until recent years and they have been completely blown away by some of the magnificent scenery,
> come to Scotland-you'll like it,,,John
> ps .sounds like an advert,,,,



Hi John funny you should say that been talking to Kevin of parsing places web sight, and looking at his videos. Mary seems quite keen on going right up to the north so i think we will in a month or so.

Ps when is the best time for good weather lol   :drive:  :drive:


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## screevin (Mar 9, 2013)

dave and mary said:


> Hi John funny you should say that been talking to Kevin of parsing places web sight, and looking at his videos. Mary seems quite keen on going right up to the north so i think we will in a month or so.
> 
> *Ps when is the best time for good weather* lol   :drive:  :drive:




 19/84.......


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## Iain69 (Mar 10, 2013)

Well I'm a Cornish man and when I move back down laterthis year I will park where I like when I like, As I said I'm a Cornish man andit is my duty to rebel, And for the record I only hate emmits that hold me upwhen I'm trying to get somewhere, common courtesy say's if someone catches you up and you’re not driving at 60/70 let then past:rulez::wave:


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## dave and mary (Mar 12, 2013)

Must just say that i have received a reply to one of my emails, and that was from the eden project, saying we would be welcome there, but nothing about parking there.  :drive:  :drive:


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## n brown (Mar 12, 2013)

if we were French we'd fill the roads of cornwall with m/homes and all park in the council office car parks.but fortunately we're not French


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## wylie66 (Mar 12, 2013)

dave and mary said:


> Must just say that i have received a reply to one of my emails, and that was from the eden project, saying we would be welcome there, but nothing about parking there.  :drive:  :drive:


not a chance of parking there overnight they lock the gates after 7, the only way in or out is through the security entrance. There are a couple of campsites nearby and also a couple of half decent wildcamp spots.


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## Guernsey Donkey (Mar 12, 2013)

Just received this reply to my email: 


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As a Council we want to support local businesses and encourage visitors to use the many high quality motorhome and camp sites throughout Cornwall.

There are many sites which provide clean and safe facilities for motorhomes at a range of town, village and coastal locations.  VisitCornwall has details of 107 caravan parks, 104 camping sites, and 101 holiday parks, most of which would welcome motor homes, these can be found by using the holiday planning and where to stay tools.

Overnight sleeping has always been banned in Council car parks and following complaints from residents and town and parish councils, we have introduced a new overnight parking ban for motorhomes in 17 Council car parks identified as having the biggest issues.

These car parks are:

Bude, Cresent
Bude, Viewing Point North
Falmouth, Gyllyngvase
Lelant, Lelant Saltings
Looe, Kilminorth Woods
Looe, Millpool
Looe, Riverbank
Marazion, Marazion Station
Newquay, Pentire Headland
Newquay, Towan Headland
Newquay, Tregunnel
Newquay, Watergate Bay
Penzance, Harbour
Perranporth, Wheal Leisure
Porthcurno
St Ives, Trenwith
Widemouth Bay
Motorhomes can continue to use all Council car parks during the day, but cannot park in the 17 car parks listed above between the hours of 11.30pm and 8am. Please note, overnight sleeping continues to be banned in all 240 Council-owned car parks.

Those found to be in contravention of the overnight parking ban will be issued with a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) for £70.00.

Find out more about penalty charge notices and how to appeal if you feel you have been incorrectly issued with a PCN by following the link What do I do if I receive a Penalty Charge Notice?

*A motorhome is defined as any vehicle constructed or adapted for use as a mobile place of sleeping – ranging from a custom-built motorhome to an estate car with a mattress in the back.

Other useful links:

Car Park locations, charges and facilities
Car park tickets/permits options
Disabled people - parking permits - blue badges

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## shortcircuit (Mar 12, 2013)

I received a very similar letter and responded

Dear Parking,

I thank you for taking the trouble to reply.

I have had holidays in Cornwall in the past and enjoyed.  Unfortunately with the actions your council have taken these will no longer happen.  

You would do well to look across the channel where motorhomes are made welcome and ask yourselves why you are so prejudiced without any logical reason as in France they offer the same in campsites etc however are more than eager to provide aires for motorhomes

Regards

Their loss.


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## Debroos (Mar 12, 2013)

Guernsey Donkey said:


> Just received this reply to my email:
> 
> 
> Home
> ...



What a bloody cheek! Bet they didn't address any of your points either.
As for Flip flaps idea of claiming to be travellers I can't see that working as they get an even harder time than we do.


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## dave and mary (Mar 12, 2013)

I also received  the  email from Cornwall C C it seems that they are not interested in us visiting Cornwall. Had one from the eden project in which they said they were looking into making over night parking, but had to get water toilets etc, plus there would be a charge, in other words they wont to build a camp site.  :drive:  :drive:

So Scotland here we come. :cool1:


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## dave and mary (Mar 12, 2013)

It seem to me that Cornwall CC is run by the campsite owners then. This is so silly when they can have all the trade from caravans paying there high charges, while we could help all the other pubs shops etc by wild camping and spending our money with them.          

So So short sighted.  :drive:    :drive:


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## Marthe (Mar 12, 2013)

*Cornwall - stopping motorhomes from parking overnight*

*Cornwall Council has real vision - I received a bland email response to the one I sent them 10 days ago,* 

Hello

Thank you for your email.

Following emails received by us regarding our recent notification of the introduction of an overnight parking ban for motorhomes in some of our car parks, we have issued a statement on the matter.  To read this, please follow the link   Cornwall Council - Motorhome parking

Regards


Parking Policy
Environment 
Cornwall Council

Tel: 0300 1234 222
Email: parking@cornwall.gov.uk
Basset Centre, Basset Road, Camborne, TR14 8SL
Cornwall Council - Home Page

Please let us know if you need any particular assistance from us, such as facilities to help with mobility, vision or hearing, or information in a different format.

*with a link to the council website which has the following response:*

Motorhome parking

More Sharing Services Share on email Share on linkedin Share on facebook
Last updated: 12/03/2013 Add to My Bookmarks Subscribe

As a Council we want to support local businesses and encourage visitors to use the many high quality motorhome and camp sites throughout Cornwall.

There are many sites which provide clean and safe facilities for motorhomes at a range of town, village and coastal locations.  VisitCornwall has details of 107 caravan parks, 104 camping sites, and 101 holiday parks, most of which would welcome motor homes, these can be found by using the holiday planning and where to stay tools.

Overnight sleeping has always been banned in Council car parks and following complaints from residents and town and parish councils, we have introduced a new overnight parking ban for motorhomes in 17 Council car parks identified as having the biggest issues.

These car parks are:

Bude, Cresent
Bude, Viewing Point North
Falmouth, Gyllyngvase
Lelant, Lelant Saltings
Looe, Kilminorth Woods
Looe, Millpool
Looe, Riverbank
Marazion, Marazion Station
Newquay, Pentire Headland
Newquay, Towan Headland
Newquay, Tregunnel
Newquay, Watergate Bay
Penzance, Harbour
Perranporth, Wheal Leisure
Porthcurno
St Ives, Trenwith
Widemouth Bay
Motorhomes can continue to use all Council car parks during the day, but cannot park in the 17 car parks listed above between the hours of 11.30pm and 8am. Please note, overnight sleeping continues to be banned in all 240 Council-owned car parks.

Those found to be in contravention of the overnight parking ban will be issued with a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) for £70.00.

Find out more about penalty charge notices and how to appeal if you feel you have been incorrectly issued with a PCN by following the link What do I do if I receive a Penalty Charge Notice?

*A motorhome is defined as any vehicle constructed or adapted for use as a mobile place of sleeping – ranging from a custom-built motorhome to an estate car with a mattress in the back.

Other useful links:

Car Park locations, charges and facilities
Car park tickets/permits options
Disabled people - parking permits - blue badges


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## shortcircuit (Mar 12, 2013)

I assume this is just a repeat of previous posts or is there something different?


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## Mastodon (Mar 12, 2013)

Marthe said:


> (null)


   That's the same reply I got. At least they're paying attention.


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## dave and mary (Mar 12, 2013)

It is just an advert for camping sites, and no sensible reason for stoping motor homes using car parks at night. :drive:  :drive:


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## jogguk (Mar 12, 2013)

**A motorhome is defined as any vehicle constructed or adapted for use as a mobile place of sleeping – ranging from a custom-built motorhome to an estate car with a mattress in the back.
*

They haven't quite had a sense of humour bypass then:lol-049: How can you take this coment seriously?

At least they have Identified the 17 carparks.

John


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## Canalsman (Mar 12, 2013)

_'Motorhomes can continue to use all Council car parks during the day, but cannot park in the 17 car parks listed above between the hours of 11.30pm and 8am. *Please note, overnight sleeping continues to be banned in all 240 Council-owned car parks.*'_


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## jogguk (Mar 13, 2013)

POI Admin said:


> _'Motorhomes can continue to use all Council car parks during the day, but cannot park in the 17 car parks listed above between the hours of 11.30pm and 8am. *Please note, overnight sleeping continues to be banned in all 240 Council-owned car parks.*'_



I don't want to sleep though. I want to park at Widemouth Bay and go night fishing:mad2: My wife may sit in the back of the M/H with a cup of coffee listening to her Ipod and 'accidentally' nod of. 

Still it OK for the potheads in the little Corsa parked next to me to recline their front seats and crash out. :sleep-040:

John


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## sparrks (Mar 13, 2013)

How could they prove in a court of law that you were asleep?  Knocked on the door and got no answer? Were you in the van? can they prove it? Did you have headphones on and were you listening to loud music? When I'm away in my van I do most of my sleeping during the day, the van is parked up at night but I may be nowhere near it.


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## sparrks (Mar 13, 2013)

Flip Flap said:


> Fishing rods open many doors. Spent a night in the big no no car park in Fort William, local plod dropped by a few times through the night to see what I was catching. No overnight parking? Pahhh.



I've parked up there a few times after the long journey north myself, no fishing rod and I don't know if the local police came by as I was fast asleep. In fairness this is normally out of season.


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## jogguk (Mar 13, 2013)

sparrks said:


> How could they prove in a court of law that you were asleep?  Knocked on the door and got no answer? Were you in the van? can they prove it? Did you have headphones on and were you listening to loud music? When I'm away in my van I do most of my sleeping during the day, the van is parked up at night but I may be nowhere near it.



If I think I may be disturbed I will sleep in my jeans and a T shirt (and in this weather socks!). I can be up and out in 2 mins.

John


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## Viktor (Mar 13, 2013)

Some of you are missing the point with talk of 'proof of sleeping' - it's irrelevant for the 17 car parks mentioned....if you are parked there and are_* a vehicle constructed or adapted for use as a mobile place of sleeping – ranging from a custom-built motorhome to an estate car with a mattress in the back *_after 11.30pm to 8am you will be ticked for_* £70!

*_So I guess if you are determined to go to Cornwall you best park on a street somewhere_*.

Me, it's the last place I'll be going - literally to the bottom of my places to visit list!*_


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## dave and mary (Mar 13, 2013)

I do think it is more likely it is the officials of the council at do not wont campers there, so many councilors just take what the officials say as correct and vote that way,  if they said the post boxes were blue they would believe them. I would not think that any of our emails have been seen by the people who vote these things in. :drive:   :drive:

I hate Pasties  :lol-049:  :lol-049:


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## fofeg101 (Mar 13, 2013)

marydot said:


> We had also planned a couple of weeks in Cornwall, just outside school holidays.  I have e-mailed the address given and explained that we will not now be visiting Cornwall, sampling their local cuisine or visiting their many attractions.  Perhaps more of us should do the same.
> 
> Mary


I just mailed mine, worded as follows:

_Dear Sir,


We are led to believe that sleeping in a motorhome in council owned car parks in Cornwall will no longer be allowed, unfortunately the extremely high cost of using the recommended "other excellent facilities", i.e., camp sites, now makes holidaying in Cornwall out of the question. Therefore, we shall continue to holiday in France were motorhomes are catered for, and overnight facilities provided, either free of charge or at a very reasonable cost. Economically, Cornwalls loss and Frances gain.


Regards._


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## Tow Itch (Mar 13, 2013)

Viktor said:


> Some of you are missing the point with talk of 'proof of sleeping' - it's irrelevant for the 17 car parks mentioned....if you are parked there and are_* a vehicle constructed or adapted for use as a mobile place of sleeping – ranging from a custom-built motorhome to an estate car with a mattress in the back *_after 11.30pm to 8am you will be ticked for_* £70!
> 
> *_So I guess if you are determined to go to Cornwall you best park on a street somewhere_*.
> 
> Me, it's the last place I'll be going - literally to the bottom of my places to visit list!*_



 I'll agree with you about the "proof of sleeping" the order was enacted to prevent the need to establish the proof, just the parking is enough.

Now I did ask early on if anyone had a copy of the order as it's not beyond possibility for them to cock orders up.

 The next statement is odd I was assuming as most of you that the distinction depended on what was on the V 5C so might be hard to police but 





> _* a vehicle constructed or adapted for use as a mobile place of sleeping – ranging from a custom-built motorhome to an estate car with a mattress in the back *_after 11.30pm to 8am you will be ticked for_* £70! *_


_*

 Is that your own interpretation, the letter of this order or a quote from the local paper? (Please someone a copy would be nice) What is adapted if not as per a legal definition? Your example of a mattress in back of an estate car. Er my cars front seats recline so if I recline them beyond an angle suitable for driving have I adapted it, or does that only occur when I lie my sleeping bag on top?*_


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## maureenandtom (Mar 13, 2013)

Tow Itch said:


> I'll agree with you about the "proof of sleeping" the order was enacted to prevent the need to establish the proof, just the parking is enough.
> 
> Now I did ask early on if anyone had a copy of the order as it's not beyond possibility for them to cock orders up.
> 
> ...



I don't know how to get a copy of their order (TRO?) - this is the page from their website.  Does this help?







EDIT:  Sorry here's the link http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/default.aspx?page=33744


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## AndyC (Mar 13, 2013)

PDFs of the TROs are linked from this page: Cornwall Council - Parking Policies

The amendment banning motorhomes from parking overnight is this one: The Cornwall Council (Off Street Parking Places) (Amendment No.3) Order 2012

AndyC


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## sparrks (Mar 13, 2013)

Viktor said:


> Some of you are missing the point with talk of 'proof of sleeping' - it's irrelevant for the 17 car parks mentioned....if you are parked there and are_* a vehicle constructed or adapted for use as a mobile place of sleeping – ranging from a custom-built motorhome to an estate car with a mattress in the back *_after 11.30pm to 8am you will be ticked for_* £70!
> 
> *_So I guess if you are determined to go to Cornwall you best park on a street somewhere_*.
> 
> Me, it's the last place I'll be going - literally to the bottom of my places to visit list!*_



I missed that comment, in that case they will have to ban all overnight parking as all cars can be slept in by adapting a suitable seat position. How can people comply with the law on driving whilst tired.

As many have pointed out the law is stupid, people will just park roadside, or not bother travelling to Cornwall.

I have yet to make up my mind whether to go ahead with my first planned trip there in several years or I might give Wales a try.


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## BGT180 (Mar 13, 2013)

Hi

Emailed Elizabeth Long, Parking Project Officer with the following-

Dear Sir/Madam

It is with some suprise I have heard that motorhomes are being banned from parking overnight and sadly the familiar shortsighted attitude to this. I understand you are referring people to facilities available eg campsites but these have high & even extortionate prices. No doubt the owners have been well represented on the council.
I like many of my motorhoming friends will not be visiting Cornwall and seek equally attractive locations elsewhere particularly abroad. France takes a really positive attitude to welcoming motorhomes with parking and services offered even in small villages. These faciliies live happily with campsites and are often located alongside. They recognise that this brings visitors who spend money locally. Last year we visited France 4 times for 2/3 weeks each time so just multiply up our expenditure by the many thousands of motohomers doing the same- all being lost to places like Corwall by shortsighted councils.
regards

Barry G T+++++++_

This generated standard response referring me to the Statement appearing in an earlier post. However, I asked for the Chairman of the Committee responsible and he is known as the Portfolio Holder for Transportation, Highways and Environment.

Bert Biscoe
bertbiscoe@btinternet.com
Lower Rosewin Row
Truro
Kernow
TR1 1EN

Perhaps you might fancy emailing him with your thoughts on the policy.:mad1:

Barry_


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## jogguk (Mar 13, 2013)

I have put a little comment on their *Cornwall Council Facebook* page.  With a link to the North Devon Journal article

Maybe a few more comments from you guys, with any helpfull links, like the Powys Councill carparks etc? I posted the comment under the name *rosalyn rose-petal *(my sister) I don't use twitface or facebum myself.


John


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## Robmac (Mar 13, 2013)

BGT180 said:


> ................This generated standard response referring me to the Statement appearing in an earlier post. However, I asked for the Chairman of the Committee responsible and he is known as the Portfolio Holder for Transportation, Highways and Environment.
> 
> Bert Biscoe
> bertbiscoe@btinternet.com
> ...



I have now forwarded my original reply which I sent to their Parking Policy address to Bert Biscoe.


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## Tow Itch (Mar 13, 2013)

Many thanks maureenandtom and Andy C

 I had tried to view the order but after perusing council links couldn't find the right one I now can. It is now clear where the phrase about estate cars with mattresses in comes from as well.

 Going back to what I said about cocking orders up, the order may well be fundamentally flawed this is not unknown. We now have something to look at.
 Now beyond the fact that you have a law, you then have what a public body infers that law means. So the order says motorhomes and campers but in it's missive the council includes an estate car with a mattress in the back. That is a massive amount of latitude and may well not be legal. The law has never stopped councils from saying something completely different though.
 Now I know or knew some of the basic principles of parking law. (the goal posts moved a bit a few years ago) This is also off road parking about which I know less.
 I know a man who does know though. I occasionally exchange emails and have the odd chat with a man called Barry Moss Wanton name dropper I know. Now it might take a bit of time and I suspect he will also want the wording on the signs in the carparks in question.
 What the article that appears under Barry's name doesn't tell you but the program did is that Barry is in a bit of a pickle at the moment. He was involved in a court case where he claimed that Bolton Council or more accurately Bolton Council's auditors were behaving unlawfully in signing off accounts when the council were keeping fine revenue they knew had been taken illegally. Barry lost the case I believe because he had not established that the amount was significant. Yes you might think it was obvious that it was important how big the amount was. He argued on principle and never put a request in to ascertain the amount. Result Barry lost and the costs mean he will lose his house. Well it might except he found more details that weren't as portrayed by the council.
 So I'll forward this on, we will see where we go.

 Too many nows in this I will now work on editing now out now I know to watch out for nows cropping up now and again as I write!


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## jogguk (Mar 14, 2013)

jogguk said:


> I have put a little comment on their *Cornwall Council Facebook* page.
> 
> John




Quite a lot of  M/H related comments on their Facebook page now:rockroll:  A couple more new names wanted to join in if any of you get the chance:dance:


John


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## screevin (Mar 15, 2013)

jogguk said:


> Quite a lot of  M/H related comments on their Facebook page now:rockroll:  A couple more new names wanted to join in if any of you get the chance:dance:
> 
> 
> John



will have a look. Not good what they are doing and they must be wrong.


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## keehotee (Mar 15, 2013)

At the risk of becoming incredibly unpopular.... so what!  I really don't see what the issue is. Cornwall -  particularly the west (Penwith) - is one of the few counties in the west of England where you're literally falling over non-car park overnight spots in beautiful locations practically everywhere you look.  To be honest,  with the spots that *are* available to anybody with eyes and a map,  I can't imagine why anybody would even want to overnight in a scuzzy council car park -  let alone make a fuss when the existing rules preventing this are clarified.  We've been visiting Cornwall 3 or 4 times a year for the past 20 years or so..... and I can honestly say this isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference to us.  And since when was being able to pay to legally overnight in a car park "wild"  camping?  Seems to me that's just paying to camp with no facilities or hookup!


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## Robmac (Mar 15, 2013)

keehotee said:


> At the risk of becoming incredibly unpopular.... so what!  I really don't see what the issue us.  Cornwall -  particularly the west (Penwith) - is one of the few county's in the west of England where you're literally falling over non-car park overnight spots in beautiful locations practically wherever you look.  To be honest,  with the spots that are available to anybody with eyes and a map,  I can't imagine why anybody would even want to overnight in a scuzzy council car park -  let alone make a fuss when the existing rules preventing this are clarified.  We've been visiting Cornwall 3 or 4 times a year for the past 20 years or so..... and I can honestly say this isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference to us.  And since when was being able to pay to legally overnight in a car park "wild"  camping.  Seems to me that's just paying to camp with no facilities or hookup!



I know what you are saying. Let's hope that this is not just the start of it though. they say they are trying to support local businesses  (campsites), in otherwords trying to get MH's to use these facilities.

Will the next step be to start introducing more NOP signs and then NOP signs backed up by TRO's? Hopefully not. If this does happen though, I think that the best course of action would be to just ignore the signs unless they refer to a TRO and then see what happens next.


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## dave and mary (Mar 15, 2013)

I have just put a bit on face book as well. Now this may seem a very stupid question, but as some body who has tried to play by the rules on parking etc. What would happen if you stayed in a car park and you awoke to find a £70 ticket on the window, and you just ignored it and any following correspondents you just binned, How far could a council go to get the money.  :drive:  :drive:


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## keehotee (Mar 15, 2013)

dave and mary said:


> What would happen if you stayed in a car park and you awoke to find a £70 ticket on the window, and you just ignored it and any following correspondents you just binned, How far could a council go to get the money.  :drive:  :drive:



If there was a TRO backing up the order.....all the way to court.


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## dave and mary (Mar 15, 2013)

keehotee said:


> If there was a TRO backing up the order.....all the way to court.



Sorry TRO ?  ( bit dim on that one )   Yes but how would they get the money, do you thing they would go to the extent of involving police etc in other parts of the country, would it be cost effective, Just thinking.   :drive:   :drive:


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## keehotee (Mar 15, 2013)

Robmac said:


> .... Will the next step be to start introducing more NOP signs and then NOP signs backed up by TRO's?



I can't remember the last time I overnighted at the side of a public road down there....so again, not really an issue. 
The county is riddled with mine workings and abandoned industry - as I said, if people opened their eyes, there are thousands of places to stop - as long as people don't take the p*** and stay for a fortnight!


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## Debroos (Mar 15, 2013)

keehotee said:


> At the risk of becoming incredibly unpopular.... so what!  I really don't see what the issue is. Cornwall -  particularly the west (Penwith) - is one of the few counties in the west of England where you're literally falling over non-car park overnight spots in beautiful locations practically everywhere you look.  To be honest,  with the spots that *are* available to anybody with eyes and a map,  I can't imagine why anybody would even want to overnight in a scuzzy council car park -  let alone make a fuss when the existing rules preventing this are clarified.  We've been visiting Cornwall 3 or 4 times a year for the past 20 years or so..... and I can honestly say this isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference to us.  And since when was being able to pay to legally overnight in a car park "wild"  camping?  Seems to me that's just paying to camp with no facilities or hookup!



For me it's the principal of the thing. They are supposed to be helping the county not suffocating it!


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## runnach (Mar 15, 2013)

dave and mary said:


> Sorry TRO ?  ( bit dim on that one )   Yes but how would they get the money, do you thing they would go to the extent of involving police etc in other parts of the country, would it be cost effective, Just thinking.   :drive:   :drive:



Traffic Restriction order.......it makes the terms and conditions legally enforceable in the courts.

channa


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## mark61 (Mar 15, 2013)

dave and mary said:


> Sorry TRO ?  ( bit dim on that one )   Yes but how would they get the money, do you thing they would go to the extent of involving police etc in other parts of the country, would it be cost effective, Just thinking.   :drive:   :drive:



No, they wouldn't  involve Police. You'd keep getting tickets, then bailiff letters, then bailiff calling round. Bailiff clamps van if he see's it. By this stage the fine + fees could be over £350 or more, a lot more perhaps now. At least 13 years since I had one.


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## Viktor (Mar 15, 2013)

> At the risk of becoming incredibly unpopular.... so what! I really don't see what the issue is. Cornwall - particularly the west (Penwith) - is one of the few counties in the west of England where you're literally falling over non-car park overnight spots in beautiful locations practically everywhere you look. To be honest, with the spots that are available to anybody with eyes and a map, I can't imagine why anybody would even want to overnight in a scuzzy council car park - let alone make a fuss when the existing rules preventing this are clarified.



Inconvenience.  You're going to have to cut short whatever you're doing to drive away out of town to park up.  A lot of people have meal and wine (on their holidays), and while perhaps not over the limit, prefer not to drive after drinking.  It is obviously popular for Motorhomes to park up and stay otherwise the council wouldn't have taken this stance, so it must affect quite a number of MH owners and that is the issue.

Just to add.....I do feel that the reason is pressure from campsite owners, pressure from residents and jealousy from NIMBYS (who can't afford a MH), and who just see us MH'ers as nouveau travelling freeloaders who won't pay to use a campsite, and who should be made use them.


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## keehotee (Mar 15, 2013)

Viktor said:


> Inconvenience.  You're going to have to cut short whatever you're doing to drive away out of town to park up.  A lot of people have meal and wine (on their holidays), and while perhaps not over the limit, prefer not to drive after drinking.



But that would apply equally to every holidaymaker not staying in a town, whether in a MH or not. So are you suggesting they should make us an exception?


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## jogguk (Mar 15, 2013)

Robmac said:


> I know what you are saying. Let's hope that this is not just the start of it though. they say they are trying to support local businesses  (campsites), in otherwords trying to get MH's to use these facilities.
> 
> Will the next step be to start introducing more NOP signs and then NOP signs backed up by TRO's? Hopefully not. If this does happen though, I think that the best course of action would be to just ignore the signs unless they refer to a TRO and then see what happens next.




At the moment it is only 17 carparks effected, but as you say is it the thin end of the wedge and may become county wide?

I would be interested in knowing why they chose those particular 17.  I'm quite observant of M/H parking activities in and around the Bude area and noticed more overnighters using the Crooklets carpark than the Crescent carpark which has the new ban. 

Also why single out Widemouth Bay beach carpark? It is not in the town and certainly won't be disturbing anyone. This carpark is used by the surfer dudes and a few vans can be seen here overnight, especially weekends on the odd days surf's up!  Looking at the vans 2 out of 5 of  them have the Cornish flag sticker on the tailgate, suggesting they're locals, bet they are not pleased.


Below is an interesting comment someone posted on the council Facebook page:

_Instead of the council paying a parking officer overtime to enforce the out of hours parking with minimal return, may I suggest a more lucrative way for you to fleece visitors. 

A £70 on the spot penalty for the inconsiderate parking of small cars in the 5 motorhome only designated bays at your Boscastle Carpark? It would certainly save me driving round and round, giving up and going to Tintagel. Where incidentally, motorhome parking, including overnight is well catered for._


John


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## Debroos (Mar 15, 2013)

"I would be interested in knowing why they chose those particular 17.  I'm quite observant of M/H parking activities in and around the Bude area and noticed more overnighters using the Crooklets carpark than the Crescent carpark which has the new ban."


I'll bet it's people who live nearby who can't handle the thought of people who have chosen to be freer than they are.
I remember the number of people around me who became positively rabid at the thought of these people wandering around as free as birds.....


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## Tommybago (Mar 17, 2013)

*Cornwall overnight*

What a shame that the council is so short sighted. They cant see that we do spend in places instead in a capmsite. I do notice that alot of campsites are no where near village/town or city centres, which me and hubby like to park up for the night and go for a drink or 2 or more and good food on most occasions. 

We have just started to wildcamp after 15 years of running day tours in Ireland and we loved Cornwall, but as most of you are saying there are alot of other places to stop at.


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## Ibsey (Mar 17, 2013)

*Ibsey*



wylie66 said:


> Whilst I wholeheartedly agree that better policing would benefit all, the council just don't have the funds to do it, though it does beg the question as to where the money goes when we have one of the highest council tax rates in the UK, again that is another rant for another day. If we look at France, they openly encourage overnight camping in car parks even at some, providing service facilities for a couple of euros, why CC don't adopt this attitude is beyond my thought process but probably again it all comes down to cost.



Is it really all about cost?  I think it is about culture (attitude) compared with france.  I have family in france so visit most years, not in a camper yet though this will change as of last year i now have a camper van. I have stayed in a tent before though. What I would suggets is that it is down to Culture and NIMBY'ism.  I wonder what happens to all the 2nd home owners in cornwall who useually reside north of the cornwall border.  Do they still get the matches out down there if your non-Cornish!  Obviously I am not stupid enough (before the insults come) 
to think it is all Cornish people.


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## scotchsw3 (Mar 17, 2013)

There are plenty of places to park overnight in Cornwall,if you like a drink and a meal with free overnight parking
try my favorite:

THE RING O'BELLS, ST ISSEY TWEEN WADEBRIDGE AND PADSTOW

Sue & Chris will make you very welcome:cheers: :cheers: :sleep-027:

Take only pictures, leave only footprints.


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## Tommybago (Mar 17, 2013)

Thanks for that x I will look out for more PH. But sometimes the info on here is not up to date as we went to Goathland last year to The inn on the Moor and they had no idea about been able to park there !! But they did let us park there as long as we had a meal there , which we did and was really nice x Sorry to digress off the subject.


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## Chalkie (Mar 21, 2013)

*Wild camping*



wylie66 said:


> I feel the need here to inject a bit of common sense. I am a lucky resident of Cornwall and feel that CC do tend to be a bit rubbish with their policies and rules, however they do have a point. Every year we welcome thousands of visitors to Cornwall for the much needed cash injection but we also get a lot of people who don't abide by wild camping etiquette or any other form of social responsibility and openly disrespect our home county, leaving litter and other forms of debris about that we the Council tax payers have to pay for, and don't get me started on that one. I know an awful lot of places in Cornwall you can park up for a night and you won't get moved on, some being off the beaten track some a tad more obvious, it just takes a bit of common sense I am happy to divulge if required.



Hi we live in Cornwall and would like to wild camp alot this year in the county so i'm on the lookout for places, would you care to share? We have quite a large a class 6.6m so cant hide very well!


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## Slinger (May 6, 2013)

*Motorhomes in Cornwall*

I live in Cornwall and I would say come here anyway, Cornwall is a big place and there are plenty of spots to park without going near a car park. Cornwall council have done this to pander to the overcharging campsite owners.


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## Robmac (May 6, 2013)

Slinger said:


> I live in Cornwall and I would say come here anyway, Cornwall is a big place and there are plenty of spots to park without going near a car park. Cornwall council have done this to pander to the overcharging campsite owners.



You're right actually. I wouldn't dream of parking in a car park anyway, (unless it was a pub car park), Neither would I park in a town really, so I don't see why I should let these people get to me so much. I shall continue to use layby's, country lanes and pubs.


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## markin (May 20, 2013)

We're off to Cornwall on Friday for a week; this ban won't affect us because we're WILD campers - the last thing we would want to do is camp on a car park, where's the fun in that? Cornwall's a big place, just use a bit of imagination and an Ordnance Survey map. Or look for Asda if you really need tarmac :drive:


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## landyrubbertramp (May 20, 2013)

Teutone said:


> stupid rules / laws or whatever.
> 
> If you don't go to Cornwall (or other places) and don't spend your money there, who do you think you hurt most?
> 
> ...



well theae small business to to get off the fence then and lobby the council


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## bmb1uk (May 20, 2013)

Quite a simple solution. get a set of false number plates, put them on before you go into carpark ,take them off when you have left  :wacko:  :banana:  :cool1:


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## vwalan (May 20, 2013)

hi bmb1uk. what and false tax disc as well . think that could give a bad impression of m,homers .
far better to double check all the regs they should have used to restrict us then use them if they got it wrong . 
us breaking laws wont help. makes us look bad.


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## Smaug (May 20, 2013)

vwalan said:


> hi bmb1uk. what and false tax disc as well . think that could give a bad impression of m,homers .
> far better to double check all the regs they should have used to restrict us then use them if they got it wrong .
> us breaking laws wont help. makes us look bad.



I suspect it wouldn't be hard to scan & photoshop a tax disk to match a velcro'd "show plate". it would only have to pass a casual inspection.

However, I think BMB was just joshing anyway.


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## vwalan (May 20, 2013)

i agree i think he was but someone might try it and get further into the s--t .


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## bmb1uk (May 20, 2013)

only meant, as a light heated reply after reading 18 pages of replies, don't want to get plod on your back.  :nothingtoadd:


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## bigG (May 21, 2013)

Viktor said:


> Hi All.
> 
> For information I received this email today.
> 
> ...



Following a protracted read through this thread yesterday I took it upon myself (probably wrongly) to contact the Eden Project in Cornwall and put the overnighting situation to them.
I was fortunate to speak to the right person (a campervan owner) who was unaware of the County Councils ruling on overnight parking for motorhomes.

I outlined the situation regarding the feeling of some of our membership choosing not to return to Cornwall because of the Councils ruling.

I have just received the following reply form the Eden Project which I am unable to add to this post through lack of knowledge, so I will have to type it out.

Hello Mr H,

Thanks for you follow up e-mail to our telephone conversation yesterday.

I spoke to our operations director today with a veiw to offering an overnight parking facility for motorhomes and it was well received.
We are looking into the legalities - for instance are we restricted by planning and if so in what way.

We are also looking into how we might be able to extend the dump facilties that we already offer to coaches, and whilst it's doubtful that we could offer electrical hook ups or toilet and shower facilities, it is possible that we may be able to offer a toilet and grey water dump, fresh water and a secure ( a manned barrier after hours) level parking for a small charge.

I will up-date you with any progress.

Thanks for getting in touch.




Lets wait and see what happens


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## Smaug (May 21, 2013)

At least they know who their customers are! What a great reply, with many facilities in place already there will be little additional cost to them - that is until the Council planners step in & stop them, or force them to spend tens of thousands of pounds to create a formal site in order to achieve planning permission! 

Sadly I doubt that the casual use allowance (max one van, 2 nights at a time & 28 nights a year) would be adequate, but they could probably get away with a Certificated site (max 5 vans a night) and perhaps charge a £5/ night (possibly refundable against entry fees). Do we have the ability to authorise certificated sites?

But well done them for even seeing the benefits.


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## landyrubbertramp (May 21, 2013)

Smaug said:


> At least they know who their customers are! What a great reply, with many facilities in place already there will be little additional cost to them - that is until the Council planners step in & stop them, or force them to spend tens of thousands of pounds to create a formal site in order to achieve planning permission!
> 
> Sadly I doubt that the casual use allowance (max one van, 2 nights at a time & 28 nights a year) would be adequate, but they could probably get away with a Certificated site (max 5 vans a night) and perhaps charge a £5/ night (possibly refundable against entry fees). Do we have the ability to authorise certificated sites?
> 
> But well done them for even seeing the benefits.



your right smaug this is a positive reply, but i feel the words with a view to are prob code for yes if we get funding so it doesn't cost us anything and an opportunity to make money,


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## bigG (May 21, 2013)

Lets not be too sceptical about it

If there is something they can do to assist us then we all will benefit. It may also encourage other companies with unused night space to see the positives for their businesses too.

Who knows where it may lead.


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## landyrubbertramp (May 21, 2013)

bigG said:


> Lets not be too sceptical about it
> 
> If there is something they can do to assist us then we all will benefit. It may also encourage other companies with unused night space to see the positives for their businesses too.
> 
> Who knows where it may lead.



bigG im sorry i dont want to be i assure you i just know how the third sector works thats all, i feel sorry for the eden project its wrong that a facility that beifits all in the uk including the world has to be bailed out by it own council when we all benefit, its just we need to be honest here projects like the eden project have to rely of funding to survive, im nt saying its right but its a fact, and we need to think about who pays and why we pay. if it was a private business theme park like alton towers it wouldn't bother me but its not it relies on funding. imigain it recives 500 thousand pound threw funding to build  m home facitly then want 25 per night to use, its a double blow hard earn tax payers pay for it then carnt afford to use it, money does not grow on trees even at the eden project


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## landyrubbertramp (May 21, 2013)

. 
The Eden Project seems to do quite well for income, being a popular location for filming. It also hosts pop concerts, which must raise useful amounts. It gets its power from wind turbines and is building a geothermal electricity generation

 its doesn't tho its in debt . the above makes my point, its having or trying to do things to raise income as ts core activity doesn't make money, its not their fault as it never  built to make money it was built to educate. film studios make money with out taxpayers money, energy companies make money building wind turbines the nec and the like make money from concerts. take the Olympics for example you could say it makes money by selling a seat but on the whole it was costing taxpayers money it just a damage limitations. 

i think the whole prob with the uk with parking is that each govermant department are only funded to care about its own department, so an aire in france may be funded by a number of diffrent agencies as they all see the benifit and prob make money we in the uk have a different approach so for example  providing parking for m homes we all know is a no brainier both sociably and in money terms for an area but its doesnt happen as it only works if all agencies get together and the system we have at the moment does not allow it imagine the business development team local sports, pct health dpts  police fire tourist etc all got together and chipped in as they all saw the benefit it would work but the uk system splits money up instead of grouping it together,, just my thoughts


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## landyrubbertramp (May 21, 2013)

good post wintorian my last post was  abit harsh i apolgise


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