# Stealth campers?



## PaulC

I've been read[ng a bit about stealth campers on the net, basically a converted camper van that looks like a normal panel van and hence is "invisible". What do people think about this as a concept?


----------



## messenger 2.5td

*stealth campers*

Depends what road you want to go down(excuse the pun)if you want a van thats fitted out as a camper without the windows could be an added bonus if used discreetly not as conspicuous as a hightop or coachbuilt.Mine works well was built for wildcamping by the previous owner although does have three windows in,based on a renault messenger b110 not a van i was familiar with but runs well if a little slow accelarating.Put this down to weight being 5.5 ton getting around 26 to the gallon van has long range fuel tank fitted so at todays prices expensive to fill £60 is only half full,tempted to try vegatable oil maybe 70/30.Does anyone have experience of using vegatable oil in Renault engines?Good luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## tonyfu

PaulC said:


> and hence is "invisible".



For some locations that you might want to park at this might look unusual / suspicious and attract more attention rather than less, especially if there are any MOD facilities in the area!

Tony


----------



## Deleted member 2636

Some people even go the cost of having the vehicle sign written in English, French and German; usually with something like "Kitchen waste removal" or something equally unpleasant.
They then hang a couple of those white dust suits inside to cab in plain view. All vents are through the roof and there will be no windows at all.


----------



## PaulC

*Stealth campers*

I was under the impression that a converted van had to meet some requirements of DVLA and the insurance companies, such as have windows fitted, etc. Although one stealth owner said he only had small windows fitted high up an very inconspicuous. Anyhow how can you get insurance and remain legal?


----------



## t&s

*stealth campers*

is this name for them a little over the top? 
a plane pannel van or a marked commercial van parked up in a lane or lay by or any public place is the first choice for investigation  by the police the chance of being turned away from an overnight stop or at least being questioned is greatly inhanced as vans are used for so many crimes they are target for most police.
we all have to start motorhoming somewhere and a plane commercial van with a home conversion is a good way to start but (stealth camping) sounds like something criminal 
to me


----------



## Deleted member 2636

"Stealth" camping as I understand it is parking up in the middle of a town.
If you are using the van as a "motor-caravan" then your insurance company will have some criteria that they will need to be fitted to the vehicle. I have enclosed what Shield require - purely as a guideline


> By fully completed we mean it has the following (non removable) fixtures and fittings.
> A bed with a minimum length of six feet
> A horizontal sliding door or an outward opening rear or side door
> A seating area for diners to sit around a fixed table
> A permanent installation to house a water container
> Wardrobes or cupboards
> Gas or Electric hob
> Windows on both sides



Hope that clears up a bit of confusion on that score.

Some people have negotiated insurance that allows them to take the furniture out of their vehicle and use it for their trade or business.


----------



## wildandwelsh

PaulC said:


> I've been read[ng a bit about stealth campers on the net, basically a converted camper van that looks like a normal panel van and hence is "invisible". What do people think about this as a concept?



this is an interesting one. As a female camper, often alone, I prefer to think that someone knows I am in there. I would be very nervous sleeping in a van without windows incase it attracted vandals who thougt the van was abandoned. Plus I can see who is outside my van should anyone knock the door!


----------



## t&s

there is a firm in dorset who make camper vans that look like delivery vans
they arecalled ( rdv leisure vehicles )i cant find em on the web they use iveco vans with a small logo LDV on the bonnet any one seen one yet ?


----------



## Firefox

DVLA motorcaravan definition requires 1 side window.  Sheild insurance do not require windows.

You need a bed, table and seating, cooking facilities, storage, water container, and a door to the caravan bit. The facilities have to be securely fixed in place, and the van not suitable for commercial goods use. No moonlighting as a delivery driver in the week either!

The way to go is two privacy glass bonded windows directly behind the cab so it looks like a crew cab van. This is also more acceptable for campsites Then black out covers for these and black out curtains behind the cab. No temptations for "look at me I'm a motorcaravan" graphics or go faster stripes/flashings like you are some hyped up boy racer with a new toy! 

At the moment I'm posting this from my mobile broadband in my warm, insulated, blacked out, raised bed compartment from a pub & leisure centre car park in mid Herts. This is wild camping at it's most versatile. There's other vehicles in the car park, but noone has a clue I'm here.

If you think carefuly about it, you can have a vehicle which will pass for DVLA, insurance, campsites, wild camping, and stealth camping.


----------



## barryd

Seems a bonkers idea to me.  Whats the fun in wildcamping if you have to disguise your van in order to get away with staying somewhere you shouldnt.  Just find somewhere else to park.


----------



## flashingblade

*intolerence*

having full-timed in a 7.5ton self conversion, i had to think long n hard about putting windows in. these would apply to a van also. without, i just looked like a truck and nobody would object to me being parked up in certain places ( using common sense ) but i would be inviting unwanted attention of 2 catagories of undesireables- 
first thieves thinking it was an empty truck/van so could try to break in for possible tools / goods
secondly the travelling community who just love vans and trucks for parts and cloning.
then there was the problem of ignorant site owners who discriminate against you ( yes, you might need the use of a site once in a while )

in the end i bit the bullet and fitted windows. i was accepted by all !
i could get insurance as a self build without worrying about small print, i could use sites, i could use ferry services as a camper van, people started to treat me as a camper and occasionally waved!, travellers knew i was sleeping in it ( suddenly i had their sympathy- i became in effect, one of them ) !!, i had daylight and views when i woke up.
sure, there will always be people that show unwanted interest in your vehicle and you should apply good security but could you spend time in a box without those views we all go camping to get. cabin fever springs to mind. 
each to their own, i do understand why people want stealth, to blend into their surroundings for a 'quiet life'.  you can always retro fit windows should you get fed up. i found even in urban areas, people are more accepting of a vehicle with windows. you could always use smoked film to give privacy.


----------



## Firefox

barryd said:


> Seems a bonkers idea to me.  Whats the fun in wildcamping if you have to disguise your van in order to get away with staying somewhere you shouldnt.  Just find somewhere else to park.



There are plenty of places you are legally allowed to stay but also plenty of people with more time on their hands than sense who delight in reporting people sleeping in vehicles. 

As for windows, Id definitely concur. But a good blackout system is desirable for me.


----------



## doronron

i thought wild camping was suppost to be be , not trying to hide from everyone ... ...


----------



## guerdeval

So whats the situation (I'm thinking vat) with these new Vivaro or vito vans that have a factory fitted window in the sliding door? ,are they still vans or have they paid the vat to call them campers?


----------



## Firefox

Wild camping is not using a recognised campsite.

Which means parking up elsewhere either overtly or covertly. Although some would say stealth camping is different from wild camping I think it's part of the broader picture. You're still sleeping, cooking, and living in your van not on a campsite. Whether people know you are doing so or not, doesn't really alter the fact that you are doing it.


----------



## Admin

Several times in the past when I have wildcamped I have had problems with youths and drunks, mainly banging the van or other anti-social antics. 

I am looking at doing a project van that will be a low roof crew cab, it will not look like a camper from the outside at all. I will have full blackouts on the side windows and no rear windows past the sliding door. The cab will have a sliding door (bit like an ambulance) so once you are in the back the van will be stealth.


----------



## Firefox

I'm going for heavily tinted privacy glass in my crew cab type windows plus blackout. There is also a blackout curtain which divides the cab from the rest of the van and I have a half dinette which can be used by up to three people with a table in stealth mode with cab divide curtain closed.

Come the fine days on a campsite or safe open wilding spot, the cab curtains are drawn back, cab seats swivelled, midi heki opened and wide sliding door opened if desired. Then the table extends to seat 5 for dining, so this front lounge layout is versatile for both scenarios.


----------



## chopper

heres mine always wild camp and have had no problems for years 
self built transit van


----------



## twosugars

this is my camper, no outside grills or gas fridge exhausts etc and tinted windows and a blackout screen inside the windscreen.











never had a problem with idiots / nimby's  - i go with the theory that if a location doesn't feel right, it probably isn't - move somewhere else!

wheelspin marks in car parks or dumped rubbish is a definite no-no!


----------



## ellisboy

Nice van twosugars I also have a t4 they are great for wild camping and we never get bothered either


----------



## ajs

twosugars said:


> this is my camper,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !


 

seriously...a very cool lookin van 



regards
aj


----------



## twosugars

not the biggest van in the world, i wouldn't like to try full timing in it. but big enough for the average long weekend. had a two week road trip round wales and the west country last summer - good fun

  i thought about alloys but then if you have too many shiny bits on your van it draws too much attention from theiving little toerags . i went for the smaller van without grills, water connections etc because  i feel it doesn't scream "campervan!, quick, phone the council!!" and its easier to tuck yourself away out of sight.

handy for my other interest as well,


----------



## kangooroo

Very discreet!

On the subject of stealth camping with a canoe, here's our alternative set-up - an unconverted Renault Kangoo car plus classic sailing canoe (constructed to McGregor Victorian design):  SMALLIMGP0872.jpg (image)

For camping trips, the rear seat is folded down and a wooden-framed bed arrangement added.  Curtain screens are looped onto the windows and cooking is via a small camping gaz stove.  It's basic but dry and comfortable and looks just like any other parked car at the waterside.

The converted Kangoo-Roo is the same size but better-fitted out for camping and I've been more than comfortable living in it for a few weeks at a time.  Motorhomes don't need to be huge or luxurious and part of the fun and enjoyment, for me at least, is improvising.


----------



## s1n86d

Nice vans.

Here's mine. A Wellhouse Leisure converted Toyota, had many trips up to 2 weeks, you have to be organised, I admit not the comforts of the larger M/hs, but no problems parking anywhere.















take care

Bill


----------



## maingate

I can park anywhere I like and I have never had any trouble with yobs.


----------



## s1n86d

I'd have trouble getting in and out of that, does it have a chair lift


----------



## twosugars

would love to see council towaway squads face when confronted by that!

only downside i can see is the camping and caravan club _might_ not let you in. possibly if you painted it white?


----------



## maingate

You would need a hard standing as it might make a mess of the grass after a bit of rain.


----------



## runnach

guerdeval said:


> So whats the situation (I'm thinking vat) with these new Vivaro or vito vans that have a factory fitted window in the sliding door? ,are they still vans or have they paid the vat to call them campers?




They are subject to VAT, Indeed every vehicle you purchase has a VAT element except on second hand vehicles it is the dealer that pays VAT on margin.

This is often the reason when buying a car etc, the figures on the invoice are reduced leaving the same balance to exchange.


The only time there is no VAT is if you buy off someone not vat registered, which will never happen with a dealer group because it is based upon turnover.

At one time of course if windows were fitted to a commercial van one was subject to car tax, but thankfully that disappeared years ago

Channa


----------



## defitzi

*defitzi*

 
Not looking like a motorhome can be a huge qasset  on continent where nosy pokers do not abound. In my 50 years motorhoming-campervanning ( I have 2  did moment-a very very old classic ( 35 in '10) hymer merc mit 4 speed 204-yes 204 motor and a Renault kangoo lift off campervan for quickie travel ( and especially for traversing uk: I have NEVER, EVER been on a uk site -and never never will.
de 'ting is there are now tens and tens of thousands motorhomes and while most Europe  (except the rapacious, greedy, nasty anti- motorhoming,  anti non-site camping  Dutch) is still motorhome friendly, he sheer pressure of vehicles trying to park in all the nicest view sites is predictably ringing restrictions in its wake. Thankfully, there are alternatives  just about everywhere and aires profilerate-many of them free overnight.
Unsurprisingly, the Dutch (with the belgians-the best coachbuilders in the world) are leading the way in the "camper-wot camper" stakes: u need to know what to look for and where!
Old stagers like me will know that motorhomes have a huge sex drive- the moment one sees another, they want to get together and before you know it, you are in the midst of a group orgy!
But the presence of a  nondescript vehicle is no guarantee it is a suitable place to wild-camp or overnight! I mean, it  could just be a mate of mine 's drains clearing wagon! (he is working on a stink machine at the moment... should be very interesting....)
Yes: a pair of windows behind the cab, light proof curtainsventilation and egress for kitchen fumes, etc on the roof (consider how best to ventilate the fridge?)and you too can be inconspicous!
I've managed quite a lot in Holland with the old Hymer : using urban residential on-street parking,occasional cmmuter rail stations( like returning on the last train)  leaving the front (cab) windows unshuttered-cab-saloon curtain drawn,(rear windows are slightly darkened) and keep the lights off (or have really efficent blackout)-this works best in non short winter night conditions. 
Keeping the roof down in the kangoo works well too: if it's really necessary to be incognito but it is so small it is much less conspicous :even with the roof up-or half way up: my ply insert additions ( fabric is no bloody good in winter) actually looks like it's permanent, especially with the solar panel on the lift part visible.
Best of all, however, is knowing just where to park-up and that comes best from decades of experience.


----------



## kangooroo

defitzi said:


> and a Renault kangoo lift off campervan for quickie travel ... Keeping the roof down in the kangoo works well too: if it's really necessary to be incognito but it is so small it is much less conspicous :even with the roof up-or half way up: my ply insert additions ( fabric is no bloody good in winter) actually looks like it's permanent, especially with the solar panel on the lift part visible.



Great to see another Kangoo Roo owner here on the forum - you have the same model as mine (even the same colour!).

Do you have a pic of your roof adaptations with the ply?  You're right, the fabric is useless.  I was about to line it with bubble-foil insulation but am interested to see what you've done with your plywood.


----------

