# New Legislation on unauthorised encampments



## Gnomus (Feb 15, 2020)

Have decided to respond to the consultation on unauthorised encampments as I am worried that in time Motorhome users casually parking up for the night might get caught up in this. More importantly we all know some travellers cause problems but these are already illegal. It seems to me that in a tolerant society we value and tolerate the freedom to have alternative lifestyles, we dont stamp them out because its cheaper and easier than enforcing existing laws or providing enough sites.


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## runnach (Feb 15, 2020)

Motorhomes are already caught up the is no might about it.

Remember the informal meets people organise here (not under the umbrella of wild camping or sister company) will be treated as an illegal encampment if there are two  vans or more. Eg the drove at the solstice pub car parks can be classed as public spaces

Some wild campers can be equally as anti social leaving litter as travellers do 

How do you differentiate from a legal standpoint? Then there is the race laws to consider and discrimination

There are laws ,by laws and other legislation in place , no need for further rules (legislation) 

I think we are treading a fine line and need to be careful what we wish for


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## antiquesam (Feb 15, 2020)

I agree with Channa. Should you haul up to a car park and two others are there you are an encampment, whether you know them or not.


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## Nabsim (Feb 15, 2020)

I responded to it ages ago, I see it as a threat to anywhere there are two vans or one car and caravan. Any rules, regs and laws are already in place and no more needed. 
i find myself moving more to what I was in my late teens/ early 20’s as time passes, come the revolution as Wolfe Smith used to say


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## campervanannie (Feb 15, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> I responded to it ages ago, I see it as a threat to anywhere there are two vans or one car and caravan. Any rules, regs and laws are already in place and no more needed.
> i find myself moving more to what I was in my late teens/ early 20’s as time passes, come the revolution as Wolfe Smith used to say


There won’t be a revolution we are British the only thing we are good at it queuing.


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## n brown (Feb 15, 2020)

we'll even queue to be revolting


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## Nabsim (Feb 15, 2020)

campervanannie said:


> There won’t be a revolution we are British the only thing we are good at it queuing.


WolfIe Smith never got his revolution but was good fun along the way ha ha


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## suneye (Feb 15, 2020)

Scary similarities to the language used in circular published by Heinrich Himmler in 1938 called 'Combating the Gypsy Nuisance',  Lest we forget!.  This could not only used against motorhomers but also against protestors who set up a camp to get their voice heard.  Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is definitely not a man who likes anyone disagreeing with him or anyone getting in his way!


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## 1807truckman (Feb 15, 2020)

n brown said:


> we'll even queue to be revolting


Mr. Brown I'm fairly revolting as it is, will I still need to queue?


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## trevskoda (Feb 15, 2020)

suneye said:


> Scary similarities to the language used in circular published by Heinrich Himmler in 1938 called 'Combating the Gypsy Nuisance',  Lest we forget!.  This could not only used against motorhomers but also against protestors who set up a camp to get their voice heard.  Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is definitely not a man who likes anyone disagreeing with him or anyone getting in his way!


Problem is one truck pulls in and others follow.


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## peter palance (Feb 16, 2020)

channa said:


> Motorhomes are already caught up the is no might about it.
> 
> Remember the informal meets people organise here (not under the umbrella of wild camping or sister company) will be treated as an illegal encampment if there are two  vans or more. Eg the drove at the solstice pub car parks can be classed as public spaces
> 
> ...


best wishes to you and yours,  all the best, ok.pj      t.t.f.n


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## peter palance (Feb 16, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Problem is one truck pulls in and others follow.View attachment 76605


be care full trev we might have to pull out the stops. hope your ok,   ok. pj


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## peter palance (Feb 16, 2020)

n brown said:


> we'll even queue to be revolting


be care full, on the revolting bit,it comes with a smell,  ok, pj.


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## QFour (Feb 16, 2020)

You can certainly see why they want to put legislation in place when the FUNSTERS turn up and take over a car park. Semi organised rally with about 20 motorhomes from the Motorhome Fun site taking part. Its hardly keeping a low profile. Looks more like a gypsy camp. The only thing thats missing is the caravans.

Have a LOOK HERE

If people are going to act like this then legislation is probably the only way to give the Local Authority powers to control it. Locals were complaining that they could not park.


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## Fisherman (Feb 16, 2020)

QFour said:


> You can certainly see why they want to put legislation in place when the FUNSTERS turn up and take over a car park. Semi organised rally with about 20 motorhomes from the Motorhome Fun site taking part. Its hardly keeping a low profile. Looks more like a gypsy camp. The only thing thats missing is the caravans.
> 
> Have a LOOK HERE
> 
> If people are going to act like this then legislation is probably the only way to give the Local Authority powers to control it. Locals were complaining that they could not park.



Read your article Qfour, and to be honest for once it was a balanced and took into consideration the complete lack of facilities, proposing joined up thinking throughout Scotland to deal with this issue.
Yes I agree that such behaviour is completely unreasonable and should not be tolerated. I for one would never take part in such a gathering. This kind of selfish behaviour only feeds bad feeling towards us. If I lived in Pitlochry I would be up in arms myself.
But moves are afoot up here to DEAL with this issue, Fife council are to be praised for their forward thinking.
Simply putting up barriers and signage moving the issue elsewhere is not the solution, what’s required are Clear guidelines backed up with some finance, which should be cost neutral with charges being applied. Something along the lines of what’s happening at Loch Ore.
Yes let’s put legislation in place, but that legislation must primarily take into account the needs of local communities, and to a lesser degree the needs of Motorhome users as well. After all Pitlochry itself has Motorhome users as do all other parts of Scotland.


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## runnach (Feb 16, 2020)

The proposed legislation is nothing new George Smith in the  1890’ s tried to introduce legislation “ controlling the movements of the travelling people” it was vehemently opposed by the showman’s guild and equivalent gypsy council not because they like each other, circus,faigroundvfolk and the Romas but they could foresee an infringement of liberty to travel 

In the case of the showman’s guild , it really gave it momentum to be what it is today , and the relationship with the gypsy council is still as tenuous.

It seems over 100 years later we are still having the same old arguments


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## runnach (Feb 16, 2020)

Moveable dwellings bill was the proposed legislation defeated and formed the formation of the United Kingdom van dwellers association in 1889 ,,, this bill as a subject of interest is one of the reasons British showpeople have traditionally strong bonds


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## Fisherman (Feb 16, 2020)

Times have changed Motorhomes are now outselling caravans.
We have a generation who are retired or nearing retirement with many financially secure and more able to buy expensive Motorhomes than before. They buy Motorhomes for many reasons, but the main reason is the freedom that they offer through self sufficiency. Camp sites are fine I use them myself, but we enjoy wild camping also, and in various types of locations from wildernesses to small towns and villages. Sometimes it gives us access to hills, were there are no campsites.
But each year brings more and more Motorhomes. Also some councils have supported projects like the NC500, without giving much thought fully to what’s required by those taking part.


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## maingate (Feb 16, 2020)

So this new Law will apply if 3 motorhomes arrive at the same place? Is the number of vehicles the offence? Will the owners be prosecuted even if they are not infringing any local byelaws or TRO'?


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## Nabsim (Feb 16, 2020)

maingate said:


> So this new Law will apply if 3 motorhomes arrive at the same place? Is the number of vehicles the offence? Will the owners be prosecuted even if they are not infringing any local byelaws or TRO'?


Two vans or motorhomes Jim or one car and caravan. Not sure if a car and trailer counts or not


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## Fisherman (Feb 16, 2020)

What about the dodgy van conversions, where the only conversion is a mattress thrown down in the back.
Would that constitute a motorhome.
QFours link highlighted the problem with campers without any toilet.
This is something that comes up regularly. Fife are concerned about this.
Putting up barriers prevents fully equipped motorhomes from gaining entry, yet allows campers with no toilets to enter.
That point was raised by the chap I contacted on the Fife proposals. Hence his reluctance to fit barriers.


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## Moonraker 2 (Feb 16, 2020)

Fisherman made a good point. 
Private enterprise is allowed to sell a product with no restrictions (motorhomes) and no one takes responsibility for where they go.
Private campsites and clubs are an option but councils or government need to take some action to allow alternatives. 
Some councils have recognised that it can be a benefit to the town,  but many still have an anti policy. 
The sign that used to say No Irish, no gypsies no dogs. Now includes no motor homes. In my book that is prejudice. 
I am having a battle in my area because I cannot get into many car parks with my high top. It is preventing me from accessing the countryside. Whether I overnight or not. 
Grrrrrr!!!!!


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## Val54 (Feb 16, 2020)

Moonraker 2 said:


> Fisherman made a good point.
> Private enterprise is allowed to sell a product with no restrictions (motorhomes) and no one takes responsibility for where they go.
> Private campsites and clubs are an option but councils or government need to take some action to allow alternatives.
> Some councils have recognised that it can be a benefit to the town,  but many still have an anti policy.
> ...



Sad to say you will not resolve the height barrier issue until there is a solution to the age old problem of unauthorised encampments. I’m not suggesting the current proposal is the correct one, but until cash strapped local councils have the lawful means to prevent the mess left by any travellers ( note I’m deliberately non-specific) occurring in the first place then the current situation will continue. The perceived problem always centres around the clean up costs and height barriers are so much cheaper than providing sites. Most local councils do not have the land available for transit sites and when they do, the nimby reaction from local residents usually ensures that they don’t get built. The one good thing about the proposals at the moment is to extend the power of the police to move on unauthorised encampments irrespective of arbitrary local authority or in some cases, national boundaries, to a transit site in an adjoining area. Of course if all traveller groups were self regulating and left no traces, we wouldn’t be having this discusssion ...............


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## st3v3 (Feb 16, 2020)

IMO, this new legislation would never be enforced for the odd couple of random vans in a car park. It's use is to quickly evict large groups or particular people who don't give a fcuk and will do all of those undesirable things we always see them doing in the news. Current laws don't exist to do this quickly.


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## maingate (Feb 16, 2020)

Nabsim said:


> Two vans or motorhomes Jim or one car and caravan. Not sure if a car and trailer counts or not



That still does not answer my question. Are they guilty for just turning up together?


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## Fisherman (Feb 16, 2020)

Val54 said:


> Sad to say you will not resolve the height barrier issue until there is a solution to the age old problem of unauthorised encampments. I’m not suggesting the current proposal is the correct one, but until cash strapped local councils have the lawful means to prevent the mess left by any travellers ( note I’m deliberately non-specific) occurring in the first place then the current situation will continue. The perceived problem always centres around the clean up costs and height barriers are so much cheaper than providing sites. Most local councils do not have the land available for transit sites and when they do, the nimby reaction from local residents usually ensures that they don’t get built. The one good thing about the proposals at the moment is to extend the power of the police to move on unauthorised encampments irrespective of arbitrary local authority or in some cases, national boundaries, to a transit site in an adjoining area. Of course if all traveller groups were self regulating and left no traces, we wouldn’t be having this discusssion ...............



The problem with barriers is camper vans can get under them. And most of them don’t have toilets. This was highlighted during a conversation I had with Fife council, and also in the article posted on post 14 on this thread.


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## runnach (Feb 16, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> What about the dodgy van conversions, where the only conversion is a mattress thrown down in the back.
> Would that constitute a motorhome.
> QFours link highlighted the problem with campers without any toilet.
> This is something that comes up regularly. Fife are concerned about this.
> ...


I am never ceased to be amazed by the British obsession with bloody toilets. So should it be part of a Motorhomes Dvla description as much as having a table....? I am uncomfortable with being told what I should and shouldn’t have by authorities who have probably never camped a night in their miserable lives.

The dvla classification of vehicles has become even more grey, at the moment very difficult to get a vehicle reclassified as a motorhome on a v5 and yet would answer fisherman’s question post 21. The matter is further complicated by living vans technically if you carry a scooter in your garage, phgv makes sense and all people want on vans over 3.5 tonnes.my point is what is a motorhome is far from cut and dried

I think labelling vehicles is totally the wrong approach. The problem is all to do with the attitude and behaviour of those who give the pastime a bad name, stick them in a top range Concorde and I doubt their behaviour will change, it needs a change in attitude and more heavy handed enforcement using the powers already in place.


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## Fisherman (Feb 17, 2020)

channa said:


> I am never ceased to be amazed by the British obsession with bloody toilets. So should it be part of a Motorhomes Dvla description as much as having a table....? I am uncomfortable with being told what I should and shouldn’t have by authorities who have probably never camped a night in their miserable lives.
> 
> The dvla classification of vehicles has become even more grey, at the moment very difficult to get a vehicle reclassified as a motorhome on a v5 and yet would answer fisherman’s question post 21. The matter is further complicated by living vans technically if you carry a scooter in your garage, phgv makes sense and all people want on vans over 3.5 tonnes.my point is what is a motorhome is far from cut and dried
> 
> I think labelling vehicles is totally the wrong approach. The problem is all to do with the attitude and behaviour of those who give the pastime a bad name, stick them in a top range Concorde and I doubt their behaviour will change, it needs a change in attitude and more heavy handed enforcement using the powers already in place.



First the point was raised by the chap running the survey for Fife council.
His and their concern is human faeces have been found at some of their carparks.
Obviously if you have a toilet in your van their is no reason for this to happen. This was also mentioned in the article posted on post 14. I am not stating that a Motorhome or camper should have a toilet, merely pointing out concerns of local authorities who manage carparks affected by such behaviour.
Also my term dodgy van conversion was not referring to someone doing their own conversion, fitting kitchens, plumbing, gas storage windows etc. What I was referring to literally was a works van with nothing done apart from a mattress  thrown in the back, and camping gas stove for cooking. I have seen this on two occasions now and once at Kingsbarns carpark in Fife were the human  faeces were found. These vans were never refused classification as a Motorhome, because they would never have applied. I was also questioning if such a van should count in any new legislation.


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## runnach (Feb 17, 2020)

Bill, I wasn’t particularly having a go at your post. I just think to re iterate it’s not the vehicles causing the issue but the behaviour of the occupants. And it is that that needs addressing.

Dvla have tightened up on re classifying vehicle there was a thread here not so long ago and plenty of statistical evidence to support that.

Re human excrement, Fife and every other county in the uk have trucks in transit there are lots of dry vans that’s not going to change , and whilst I understand people’s concerns, whilst local authorities are closing facilities the problem is only going to get worse.Fwiw disability groups I have involvement with are equally upset,and probably have more reason too than motorhome groups. Ultimately for the secure future of wildcamping it is how we shift offenders attitudes


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## Fisherman (Feb 17, 2020)

channa said:


> Bill, I wasn’t particularly having a go at your post. I just think to re iterate it’s not the vehicles causing the issue but the behaviour of the occupants. And it is that that needs addressing.
> 
> Dvla have tightened up on re classifying vehicle there was a thread here not so long ago and plenty of statistical evidence to support that.
> 
> Re human excrement, Fife and every other county in the uk have trucks in transit there are lots of dry vans that’s not going to change , and whilst I understand people’s concerns, whilst local authorities are closing facilities the problem is only going to get worse.Fwiw disability groups I have involvement with are equally upset,and probably have more reason too than motorhome groups. Ultimately for the secure future of wildcamping it is how we shift offenders attitudes



A point raised during my conversation with the chap from Fife Council was he reckoned that we could police all kinds of bad behaviour from all who use the carparks at night. Fife intend to put up phone numbers that you can call if you spot in appropriate behaviour. His positive attitude was he would rather have a carpark with some well behaved Motorhomes through the night, than an empty carpark. Off course that is up to the individual.

Back to the toilet situation.
My mate has a T5 camper, and he avoids town carparks because of amongst other things he has no toilet.
I have suggested carrying a thetford porta loo, but he is simply not interested.
Each to their own, but I just wanted to assure you and everyone I was not being judgemental towards campers with no toilets. Merely trying to explain concerns of councils, and questioning wether vans that have not been converted or recognised by the dvla as Motorhomes should count in this new legislation.

Apologies Andrew for misunderstanding your post.


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## mariesnowgoose (Feb 17, 2020)

Did anyone see a documentary about fly tipping recently? Fascinating stuff.
It is apparently a mega business - reckoned to be worth millions - for criminals who are operating countrywide.

If you put into perspective the amount of human poo found in car parks nationwide it pales into insignificance by comparison.

BUT - that doesn't stop councils wanting to address the perceived problem - unfortunately antisocial behaviour runs across the board and, as channa says, I wonder how much of this 'human faeces' problem is solely down to irresponsible travellers of _whatever_ creed or colour? How about ordinary truck and van drivers? Or just people in cars? Motorhomes, camper vans and caravans are just easy targets because they are highly visible and easily distinguished from other vehicles, so it makes it easy to legislate against them parking up.

I don't know what the answer is, but we really should take a stand when excessive legislation starts restricting our freedom of movement, imho.

PS - and our freedom to park up in public spaces!


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## trevskoda (Feb 17, 2020)

Changing folks mindset or discription of a motorhome is one thing but beating everyone with a big stick is something else and is alway going to be tricky to sort the wheat from the chaff .
Now  the dvla could and should have done a better job with van re reging, motorcaravan should have a loo, 25ltr water, cooker, fridge, wast tank, wash /sink,and a bed,table,at all weights & be ok to carry a scooter/bike etc.
A living van/showmans van should be the same but over 7.5 ton but with extras for living from,ie garage for scooter/bike ,larger water tank/holding tank,solar panels for living of grid for longer.
A van with windows should not require water tanks, toilets, cooker,table,but should have a removable seating for disabled if required and at least 4 seats min & be able to carry cycles for kids etc.
This will not stop the knobheads of course but would clear up a few things.


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## izwozral (Feb 17, 2020)

There is simply no need to leave crap in a car park or anywhere else for that matter, just crap into a carrier bag, on newspaper, or whatever else is handy, wrap it up and bin it. People are far too squeamish when it comes to excrement, if you touch it you wont die and washing hands works wonders or use sanitiser! As for the smell, that isn't going to kill you either. Do people fart perfume - no. 
Of course if you have a new girl/boyfriend with you, it could be a bit tricky but you could ask them to take a walk.
As for peeing, we carry these with us https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1200ML-O...=293401484089ac17852da2d748028c8f1ca6de89672a


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## Fisherman (Feb 17, 2020)

izwozral said:


> There is simply no need to leave crap in a car park or anywhere else for that matter, just crap into a carrier bag, on newspaper, or whatever else is handy, wrap it up and bin it. People are far too squeamish when it comes to excrement, if you touch it you wont die and washing hands works wonders or use sanitiser! As for the smell, that isn't going to kill you either. Do people fart perfume - no.
> Of course if you have a new girl/boyfriend with you, it could be a bit tricky but you could ask them to take a walk.
> As for peeing, we carry these with us https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1200ML-Outdoor-Urine-Bottle-Male-Men-Women-Pee-Storage-Camping-Travel-UK-Nice/293401484089?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item4450175b39:m:mhx6H8rQdPj5PZcmDLa-Mjg&enc=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&checksum=293401484089ac17852da2d748028c8f1ca6de89672a



That’s the biggest web link of all time Izzy, get it onto the Guinness book of records.


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## Fisherman (Feb 17, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Did anyone see a documentary about fly tipping recently? Fascinating stuff.
> It is apparently a mega business - reckoned to be worth millions - for criminals who are operating countrywide.
> 
> If you put into perspective the amount of human poo found in car parks nationwide it pales into insignificance by comparison.
> ...



Yes Marie I saw the programme, kind of puts a few Motorhomes parked up for the night into perspective.
But it begs the question, who is worse the fly tippers or those who give them the rubbish in the first place.
We all know this goes on, and yet some continue to feed these criminals.


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## trevskoda (Feb 17, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> That’s the biggest web link of all time Izzy, get it onto the Guinness book of records.


And how does a man pee into it when its always pointing up when requiring a wee,or are you lot to old for that to happen.


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## Fisherman (Feb 17, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> And how does a man pee into it when its always pointing up when requiring a wee,or are you lot to old for that to happen.



You speak for yourself Trev, never to old Trev, never to old mate


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## trevskoda (Feb 17, 2020)

[QUOTE="izwozral, post: 1050 As for the smell, that isn't going to kill you either. Do people fart perfume - no.Every one knows girls dont fart or so they say.


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## izwozral (Feb 17, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> And how does a man pee into it when its always pointing up when requiring a wee,or are you lot to old for that to happen.



That's why I carry a bottle of shampoo with me Trev.

Well, I would if I wasn't a bald git!


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## izwozral (Feb 17, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> That’s the biggest web link of all time Izzy, get it onto the Guinness book of records.



AS Confucius says: He who with big Web has many legs.

I may have got that slightly wrong?


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## Fisherman (Feb 17, 2020)

izwozral said:


> AS Confucius says: He who with big Web has many legs.
> 
> I may have got that slightly wrong?



Confucois say “many hands make light work.”
but if he was here today “larger web address smaller importance”
Trev would say “older you are more impotance”


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## runnach (Feb 17, 2020)

If you don’t want to pee, abuse your body and go into kidney failure works in 90% of cases guaranteed


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## trevskoda (Feb 17, 2020)

channa said:


> If you don’t want to pee, abuse your body and go into kidney failure works in 90% of cases guaranteed


OK i will stick with self abuse and save my cidleys.


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## izwozral (Feb 17, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> OK i will stick with self abuse and save my cidleys.



As Confucious says:  Anchor.

Summat like that anyway?


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## mariesnowgoose (Feb 17, 2020)

Confucsius say:


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## izwozral (Feb 17, 2020)

Confucius say: Stop spelling me bleedin' name wrong.


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## Nabsim (Feb 17, 2020)

izwozral said:


> Confucius say: Stop spelling me bleedin' name wrong.


Ral, he is dead mate, he really doesn’t mind ha ha


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## izwozral (Feb 17, 2020)

Confucius say@


Nabsim said:


> Ral, he is dead mate, he really doesn’t mind ha ha




Confucius say: How come nobody told me?


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## QFour (Feb 17, 2020)

I suppose that if by any chance a Council member is reading this he would want to ban MH's from car parks. Having a crap in a carrier bag and putting it in a bin is hardly going to leave a lasting good impression MHs


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## runnach (Feb 17, 2020)

Confucius say # I demand a second opinion#


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## izwozral (Feb 17, 2020)

QFour said:


> I suppose that if by any chance a Council member is reading this he would want to ban MH's from car parks. Having a crap in a carrier bag and putting it in a bin is hardly going to leave a lasting good impression MHs



Do they root through bins given that they are full of dog crap?


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## ricc (Feb 17, 2020)

izwozral said:


> Do they root through bins given that they are full of dog crap?


depends how keen they are on recycling


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## QFour (Feb 17, 2020)

Human waste is classified as a BioHazard it contains the following very unpleasant bacteria.

C. diff
cholera
E coli
Dysentery
Norovirus
Hepatitis A and E
Giardia
Pinworms
I suppose that is why we go to such extremes to make sure that it is disposed of in a safe manner not just chucked in a bin for someone else to find. The outside of any bag can also have traces of the above.

The health of the Nation was drastically improved by digging up the roads and putting in sewers to take away the feces and urine from the gutters and also away from water courses. *Cholera* is an infectious disease that causes severe watery diarrhea, which can lead to dehydration and even death if untreated. It is caused by eating food or drinking water contaminated with a bacterium that can come from human feces.

Dog muck on the other hand does not create much of a problem for humans. We don't get cross infection from it but it can be a hazard to health especially from slipping in it and falling. If dog muck was classified as a BioHazard humans would be up in arms about it.


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## mariesnowgoose (Feb 17, 2020)

QFour said:


> Dog muck on the other hand does not create much of a problem for humans. We don't get cross infection from it but it can be a hazard to health especially from slipping in it and falling. If dog muck was classified as a BioHazard humans would be up in arms about it.




Human vs. dog poo?

100% agree that human poo is a biohazard, but apparently dog faeces are one of the most common carriers of the following diseases:-


Whipworms
Hookworms
Roundworms
Tapeworms
Parvo
*Corona*
Giardiasis
Salmonellosis
Cryptosporidiosis
Campylobacteriosis
Interesting, no...?   

World Health Organisation: Coronaviruses


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## mariesnowgoose (Feb 17, 2020)

Bet that last post of mine is bound to open up a can of worms - whipworms, hookworms, roundworms and tapeworms!


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## Fisherman (Feb 17, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> Human vs. dog poo?
> 
> 100% agree that human poo is a biohazard, but apparently dog faeces are one of the most common carriers of the following diseases:-
> 
> ...



You go to some sites online Marie  

Seriously though it’s a fair point, well I think it is


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## mariesnowgoose (Feb 17, 2020)

Just to highlight:-

"Coronaviruses are zoonotic, meaning they are transmitted between animals and people.  Detailed investigations found that SARS-CoV was transmitted from civet cats to humans and MERS-CoV from dromedary camels to humans. Several known coronaviruses are circulating in animals that have not yet infected humans.

Common signs of infection include respiratory symptoms, fever, cough, shortness of breath and breathing difficulties. In more severe cases, infection can cause pneumonia, severe acute respiratory syndrome, kidney failure and even death."

Recent speculation on the latest coronavirus suggests that the poor old pangolin might be to blame.

With that in mind, I think QFour might be misguided by stating that "we don't get cross infections" from dog poo, particularly as certain types of "corona" are already on the list of transmittable diseases for said dog poo.

And don't forget ocular toxocariasis (blindness) which is caused by contact with dog (and cat) poo (roundworms). Now surely that is classified as a biohazard?!

Just sayin'


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## trevskoda (Feb 17, 2020)

QFour said:


> I suppose that if by any chance a Council member is reading this he would want to ban MH's from car parks. Having a crap in a carrier bag and putting it in a bin is hardly going to leave a lasting good impression MHs


Folk put dog crap in bins,well they have to as the dogs cannot get up to do it in them.


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## QFour (Feb 17, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Folk put dog crap in bins,well they have to as the dogs cannot get up to do it in them.



Perhaps they should put them nearer the floor.


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## mariesnowgoose (Feb 18, 2020)

A holocaust survivor offered this up as an 11th commandment.

Think maybe we should all take note, it applies to lots of things in life...

*“Thou shalt not be indifferent”*


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## maureenandtom (Mar 2, 2020)

Consultaton closes on 4th March.  If anyone would like to comment using the suggested email from Liberty then this link should take you to their site. You could use their email as a guide or accept it as is.  I accepted it as is and simply signed it.  Liberty takes care of the rest.

There are only a few days left to respond to the consultation.


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## trevskoda (Mar 2, 2020)

mariesnowgoose said:


> A holocaust survivor offered this up as an 11th commandment.
> 
> Think maybe we should all take note, it applies to lots of things in life...
> 
> *“Thou shalt not be indifferent”*


There is at least over 1050 comandments in the new testament but the romans and church only shout about the ten.


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## peter palance (Mar 2, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Problem is one truck pulls in and others follow.View attachment 76605


is this souer or crute. or may be just 6 amrecanos, no fighting please. wolfy ok.pj


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## runnach (Mar 2, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> There is at least over 1050 comandments in the new testament but the romans and church only shout about the ten.


Same with the gospels ,Roman emperor responsible for that one ...you had to be careful disobeying meant you were lion food


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## peter palance (Mar 2, 2020)

Fisherman said:


> Times have changed Motorhomes are now outselling caravans.
> We have a generation who are retired or nearing retirement with many financially secure and more able to buy expensive Motorhomes than before. They buy Motorhomes for many reasons, but the main reason is the freedom that they offer through self sufficiency. Camp sites are fine I use them myself, but we enjoy wild camping also, and in various types of locations from wildernesses to small towns and villages. Sometimes it gives us access to hills, were there are no campsites.
> But each year brings more and more Motorhomes. Also some councils have supported projects like the NC500, without giving much thought fully to what’s required by those taking part.


some times shops get full some times they dont, we that is to say, us.  try are best to make it good all,if not move on, wolfy ok pj


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## peter palance (Mar 2, 2020)

channa said:


> Same with the gospels ,Roman emperor responsible for that one ...you had to be careful disobeying meant you were lion food


they will be frighton of me, im wroten  im off can you smell me.  wolfy ok. pj


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## trevskoda (Mar 2, 2020)

Lots of folk buying M/H now so when they go into care homes they have no property for gov to get there dirty hands on,you then get in free like all the other wasters on the ground.


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## maingate (Mar 2, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Lots of folk buying M/H now so when they go into care homes they have no property for gov to get there dirty hands on,you then get in free like all the other wasters on the ground.



It's easy enough to stop anyone but family getting the House Trev. Ours is in a Family Trust and now out of bounds.


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## peter palance (Mar 2, 2020)

izwozral said:


> There is simply no need to leave crap in a car park or anywhere else for that matter, just crap into a carrier bag, on newspaper, or whatever else is handy, wrap it up and bin it. People are far too squeamish when it comes to excrement, if you touch it you wont die and washing hands works wonders or use sanitiser! As for the smell, that isn't going to kill you either. Do people fart perfume - no.
> Of course if you have a new girl/boyfriend with you, it could be a bit tricky but you could ask them to take a walk.
> As for peeing, we carry these with us https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1200ML-Outdoor-Urine-Bottle-Male-Men-Women-Pee-Storage-Camping-Travel-UK-Nice/293401484089?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item4450175b39:m:mhx6H8rQdPj5PZcmDLa-Mjg&enc=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&checksum=293401484089ac17852da2d748028c8f1ca6de89672a


wood u like 2 try mine, wolfy, ok pj.


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## peter palance (Mar 2, 2020)

izwozral said:


> Confucius say: Stop spelling me bleedin' name wrong.


is that u flower  ok,wolfy pj


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## peter palance (Mar 2, 2020)

QFour said:


> Human waste is classified as a BioHazard it contains the following very unpleasant bacteria.
> 
> C. diff
> cholera
> ...


oh there is a new one make sure u dont get it, yan pan yow, its here to, ok,pj


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## doglover1 (Mar 2, 2020)

Thats the reason I got a van conversion I  can park up on the streets in the town or village


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## trevskoda (Mar 2, 2020)

maingate said:


> It's easy enough to stop anyone but family getting the House Trev. Ours is in a Family Trust and now out of bounds.


Irish law may be not the same as engerland


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## maingate (Mar 2, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Irish law may be not the same as engerland



That's probably right Trev. I suspect you don't pay for Elderly Care if you take your Granny to the Care home while carrying an Armalite, wearing a beret and Balaclava.


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## trevskoda (Mar 3, 2020)

maingate said:


> That's probably right Trev. I suspect you don't pay for Elderly Care if you take your Granny to the Care home while carrying an Armalite, wearing a beret and Balaclava.


In the north you have to defare all estates 7 years in advance and have no monies in the bank,and they may ask for a next of kin to add a top up of funds but not compulsery to pay this.


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## peter palance (Mar 3, 2020)

trevskoda said:


> Irish law may be not the same as engerland


sorry trev we have a place for you, out side rampton m ,center, ok pj hope your keeping ok ,  t.t.f.n


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## wildman (Mar 8, 2020)

the three vans constituting a campsite is not new it has been in place since the 1960's or thereabouts, it is the means by which you can be moved along, thre vans constitutes a campsite or at the very least permission of the land owner and an exemption certificate in place it has always been a PITA.


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## peter palance (Mar 9, 2020)

maingate said:


> It's easy enough to stop anyone but family getting the House Trev. Ours is in a Family Trust and now out of bounds.


no in a tree, the last of the great swinger,p.s.hang on trev you will make it,  wolfy.ok.pj


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## Scotia (Mar 9, 2020)

QFour said:


> You can certainly see why they want to put legislation in place when the FUNSTERS turn up and take over a car park. Semi organised rally with about 20 motorhomes from the Motorhome Fun site taking part. Its hardly keeping a low profile. Looks more like a gypsy camp. The only thing thats missing is the caravans.
> 
> Have a LOOK HERE
> 
> If people are going to act like this then legislation is probably the only way to give the Local Authority powers to control it. Locals were complaining that they could not park.


The picture in the report was from another date not the event it states its from, someone from another wild camping forum was there and stated the majority of campers were performing artists for the Hogmany party there are also spaces allocated for overnight stop over for motor homes and lorries. Local business welcome people parking up and coming into their restaurants, pubs, shops (the question had been asked). 
This is a case of a so called journalist trying to make a headline story for the local rag, you will always find a disgruntled local but others will welcome you, the latest being Luss due to irresponsible parking. 
One guy a so called local ( for how long he has resided there I dont know) and wild camper stated just keep on passing through and park else where if you are not willing to pay the extortionate parking fee, I asked the question is this the view of local business as well? his reply was " Im not sure the last time I was in the village was to vote" what is that all about ? A small distance up the road at Tarbet they have installed a free chemical waste disposal point and fresh water filling point that's forward thinking, and another few hundred yards at the Slanj they welcome motor home stop over foc.  Sam


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## campervanannie (Mar 9, 2020)

campervanannie said:


> There won’t be a revolution we are British the only thing we are good at it queuing.


I need to add and buying bog roll apparently


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