# spare wheel



## t&s (Jun 18, 2008)

any one got ideas or have made some sort of adaptor/winding handle /winch ect for removing the spare wheel from under the middle of a ducato chassis
it looks dam difficult lying under the van when the tyre is flat and it is wet and cold trying to undo two  nuts looks like a pain


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## Deleted member 775 (Jun 19, 2008)

i think if i had a flat i would let the breakdown company handle the wheel change,but i carry one of those tins of instant repair just in case i dont think i would risk changing a wheel on the van .unless i had a trolly jack and axle stands .


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## Deleted member 207 (Jun 20, 2008)

I am surprised the spare is not mounted on a little winch that can be wound up and down. You're sure the two bolts dont just hold a cable or chain in place. Its almost impossible to lift a spare wheel and then do up a couple of bolts - but then again those Italians are great at designing useful and innovative things.

I learnt years ago whilst driving trucks that making sure the spare wheel can be de-mounted can save a few hours of heartache on the side of a road - always in rain.


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## t&s (Jun 22, 2008)

i always carry a trolley jack and there is just nuts to undo no winching mechanisum at all but it might be a squeese under there if a rear tyre was flat 
le have to invent a lifting device  may be modefy an old one from a 40 foot trailer from the scrappy


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## cipro (Jun 22, 2008)

I,m with mandrake call the services unless they are going to be 3 hours


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## lenny (Jun 22, 2008)

Sounds like a strange one to me, how can the designers expect you to take the weight of the spare whilst loosening the 2 nuts?.
Are the 2 nuts through the existing wheel nut holes? or are they through a plate that passes through the centre of the wheel rim?


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## t&s (Jun 22, 2008)

you are right there *****
yes just undoing the wheel nuts on a truck wheel can be an exausting job let alone handling the thing once you have got it off
but with the mororhome it is a little easier

lenny it just a straight bar across the whole tyre with two nuts on threaded bar i think you are suposed to lie under the wheel and get excited then you might have the extra lift you need to raise the wheel (cant think of a more polite way to put it )while you strugle with your nuts un doing them that is

seriously it could be quite dogy trying to remove it 
i have had the van over a year and if the waste water tap was not blocked i would possibly not gone that far underneath the van and not given the spare another thought
cheers terry


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## t&s (Jun 22, 2008)

sound advice thanks 
as thanks is not working


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## lenny (Jun 22, 2008)

Just learned from another forum that some modern motorhomes dont carry a spare wheel because they have "Run flat kits" and that the spare wheel comes as an optional extra, maybe yours was added later and underslung (as they do with caravans).

Assuming you hav'nt had the van from new.


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## walkers (Jun 23, 2008)

my spare sits in the rear storage area, but why did fiat/peugeot/citroen do away with having them under the bonnet that was a lot more convenient


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## jimmnlizz (Jun 23, 2008)

Hi Walkers,
              ours is still under the bonnet, "Kwackers" is a 1992 Fiat Murvi Mallard.  The only problem with it is it's just too heavy at my time of life and condition!  It would still be too heavy if it was underslung.  I have thought about this and realise that with the two of us we should be able to manage it!  Solution..............never go anywhere without Liz.   Has nobdy thought about checking underneath to see if there is room to fit a caravan slide out spare wheel carrier?  You know the type, trombone style. Just type 'alko spare wheel carrier' into Ebay.  Just as a by the way, is that a pair of dachsies in your avatar?  Liz has a couple of Wire Haired Miniature Dachshunds! They go everywhere with us.  
                        Jim.


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## Nosha (Jun 23, 2008)

Terry, You'll need to grease those bolts soon, mine were very dry and starting to rust (only 19mths old) I did them whilst over a pit. I always carry a tin of Holts Tyre Weld, but I've also thought if it was a rear flat I would need to drive the van onto a pair of leveling ramps so I had room to get to the spare before jacking and removing any wheels etc. (I guess I could always go on a diet!).


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## walkers (Jun 24, 2008)

jimmnlizz said:


> Hi Walkers,
> ours is still under the bonnet, "Kwackers" is a 1992 Fiat Murvi Mallard.  The only problem with it is it's just too heavy at my time of life and condition!  It would still be too heavy if it was underslung.  I have thought about this and realise that with the two of us we should be able to manage it!  Solution..............never go anywhere without Liz.   Has nobdy thought about checking underneath to see if there is room to fit a caravan slide out spare wheel carrier?  You know the type, trombone style. Just type 'alko spare wheel carrier' into Ebay.  Just as a by the way, is that a pair of dachsies in your avatar?  Liz has a couple of Wire Haired Miniature Dachshunds! They go everywhere with us.
> Jim.


yes that is a pair of smooth haired minis they go everywhere too. (you just try leaving them behind)


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## walkers (Jun 24, 2008)

jimmnlizz said:


> Hi Walkers,
> ours is still under the bonnet, "Kwackers" is a 1992 Fiat Murvi Mallard.  The only problem with it is it's just too heavy at my time of life and condition!  It would still be too heavy if it was underslung.  I have thought about this and realise that with the two of us we should be able to manage it!  Solution..............never go anywhere without Liz.   Has nobdy thought about checking underneath to see if there is room to fit a caravan slide out spare wheel carrier?  You know the type, trombone style. Just type 'alko spare wheel carrier' into Ebay.  Just as a by the way, is that a pair of dachsies in your avatar?  Liz has a couple of Wire Haired Miniature Dachshunds! They go everywhere with us.
> Jim.


the advantages with the wheel under the  bonnet were its kept pretty much clean and its only a small lift from a comfortable height then down to the road, far easier than crawling underneath and dragging a dirty wheel out, or as in my case half emptying the storage area to access the wheel at the side of the road


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## t&s (Jun 24, 2008)

proper jacking pointstile have to sus them out i would have used the axel close to the wheel  
the spare has been mounted just behind the axel and the extention to the  chassis has been used for the waste water tank if they had reversed the location of the wheel for the tank the wheel removal would not be so alkward and the weight would have been more evenly distributed so i empty   the waste tank as often as poss 
cheers terry


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## cipro (Jun 24, 2008)

I brought a belly trolly and find that you can go from one end of the van
to the other, to change curtain bulbs check spare wheel etc

£12 from aldi I think.


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## t&s (Jun 24, 2008)

cipro said:


> I brought a belly trolly and find that you can go from one end of the van
> to the other, to change curtain bulbs check spare wheel etc
> 
> £12 from aldi I think.




just car booted mine 50p i should have sold it to lidl oh no aldi


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## runnach (Dec 5, 2009)

Sadly I have had experience of the 'underslung' spare wheel this week 

I had a puncture last year in France and managed to change the wheels effect a punture repair for 20 euros and lost a morning in total.

However this week I couldnt for the life of me get the wheel out of the cradle.

The retaining bracket on the left side fully extends. But the bar wouldnt lift over it ....Last time it was disturbed was Customs x-raying the spare wheel in Dover.

In the end I ended up calling the AA.. I had already jacked the wheel...AA arrived on a motorbike, and pumped a load of air in it to enable me to hobble to the local ATS who repaired the offending wheel.

That still leaves me with a spare I cant remove, Has anybody experienced a similar problem ? How did you resolve it? I must be missing somerthing simple.
here.

I agree btw it helps being built like Geoff Capes removing these things....of which I am not.

Incidentally for lifting the cradle, you use the end of the wheel brace as a lever there is a socket thing on the left handside of the cradle....Well there was on mine till it snapped !!

Channa


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## n8rbos (Dec 5, 2009)

mandrake said:


> i think if i had a flat i would let the breakdown company handle the wheel change,but i carry one of those tins of instant repair just in case i dont think i would risk changing a wheel on the van .unless i had a trolly jack and axle stands .[/QUO
> 
> 
> i carry 4x tyreweld,lot easier than messin with underslung spares,only downside to these spray cans is if your tyres split then no amount of tyreweld will suffice.but a good temp. solution to nearest garage.£6 each from asda.


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## rickboy (Dec 5, 2009)

*Tricky spare*



channa said:


> Sadly I have had experience of the 'underslung' spare wheel this week
> 
> I had a puncture last year in France and managed to change the wheels effect a punture repair for 20 euros and lost a morning in total.
> 
> ...



Try taking the weight off the spare wheel by jacking or chock and wedge.Not so thight you can't slide the wheel.

Push the spare to the front of the van ,pull the "j" brackets down and towards the back of the van.

If /when its out spray the boltsand pivot points with waerproof grease(white)

Good luck


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## rickboy (Dec 5, 2009)

*2 "J" clamps*

Noticed you only mention 1 clamp, mine has  2 "j" clamps  !!!

Working upside down have you missed a clamp?


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## biggirafe (Dec 5, 2009)

Yep you should have 2 and you do need to use the Jack to take the weight. I can just manage without using it but I'm built like Geoff Capes. When I got my MH I spent a weekend underneath with Hammerite. One of the jobs was taking the spare wheel frame off and painting it then greasing up the brackets. Its well worth the effort when you come to use the spare.

To help your problem I would support the spare wheel and put a rachet spanner on the clamps put a load of easing oil on them and fully open and close them a few times. Then grease them up well.


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## Deleted member 8468 (Dec 5, 2009)

We have the run flat kit instead of a spare for our 2009 Ducato campervan. I was quoted £150 for a spare which I may get in due course. There is nowhere to put it other than to simply carry it in the back.

If the supplied kit did not work in the event of a puncture (if tyre came off the rim, etc) we would have to call out the RAC as we do not have the tools to do the job. I understand they will charge for breakdown assistance if a spare is not carried.


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## runnach (Dec 5, 2009)

rickboy said:


> Noticed you only mention 1 clamp, mine has  2 "j" clamps  !!!
> 
> Working upside down have you missed a clamp?




Yes There are two j clamps the offside one is not a problem.

The problem appears to be..that the bracket will not clear the jaw of te j on the nearside, even with the bracket fully extended... where it fits in its housing, their is an internal block which doesnt appear ro be jammed and is moving freely.

Thanks for everyopnes advice

Channa


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## maingate (Dec 5, 2009)

Hi MollsPhot,

I have just sourced a 16" rim as I do not have a spare with my Burstner. The Fiat dealerships wanted £113 for a new rim. I managed to get a practically brand new one for £35.

It came from a Citroen dealership locally. They do the Pre Delivery Inspections of motorhomes for the local Discover Leisure branch. Sometimes, when people fit alloy rims, they do not want the steel ones back. 

I have priced some budget camping car tyres locally for around £75 - £80 each.

I am lucky in that I have plenty of room to store the tyre "indoors" but I will have a look underneath as well. There is no cradle for the spare but I expect the holes will be there and I could always retrofit a cradle to the AlKo chassis.

ps If you need a 15" rim you will easily get one from a scrapyard. Look for Iveco vans as well as Fiats as they use the same rims. If you are lucky, you will even get a good tyre with it.


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## rickboy (Dec 5, 2009)

channa said:


> Yes There are two j clamps the offside one is not a problem.
> 
> The problem appears to be..that the bracket will not clear the jaw of te j on the nearside, even with the bracket fully extended... where it fits in its housing, their is an internal block which doesnt appear ro be jammed and is moving freely.
> 
> ...



Try refitting the freed clamp and tightn it up a bit to take the pressure off the other one and square thing up a bit.Then work on the one which is stuck.
Check  the cage towards the front of the van to make sure its not out of position and locking things up.

By the way Geoff Capes could not get under the van.

Good luck


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## runnach (Dec 5, 2009)

rickboy said:


> By the way Geoff Capes could not get under the van.
> 
> Good luck



I struggle with my lithesome adonnis like carcass 


Channa


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## rickboy (Dec 5, 2009)

*Ramps*



channa said:


> I struggle with my lithesome adonnis like carcass
> 
> 
> Channa


Could you go onto levelling ramps at the back?


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## biggirafe (Dec 5, 2009)

rickboy said:


> Could you go onto levelling ramps at the back?



Leveling ramps are a good way to do it. I have also jacked the rear end up 1 side at a time and stood the wheels on short lengths of builders plank slowly lifting it up to about 6-8inches. I should point out I also use axle stands for saftey when I have done this, axle stands are a good investment if you are going to spend any time under your vehicles.


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## rickboy (Dec 5, 2009)

*Jack*



biggirafe said:


> Leveling ramps are a good way to do it. I have also jacked the rear end up 1 side at a time and stood the wheels on short lengths of builders plank slowly lifting it up to about 6-8inches. I should point out I also use axle stands for saftey when I have done this, axle stands are a good investment if you are going to spend any time under your vehicles.



If you use the standard jack you would need to place it on on some chocks first to get the wheels up high enough.Easier to drive up onto the boards via some stepped bits of wood.Each to their own I quess.


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## biggirafe (Dec 5, 2009)

rickboy said:


> If you use the standard jack you would need to place it on on some chocks first to get the wheels up high enough.Easier to drive up onto the boards via some stepped bits of wood.Each to their own I quess.



True enough but I only had one plank and I would not have had enough to make a ramp let alone 2 
I like the proper ramps but can't justify buying them to be used once a year, now if someone rented them out that would be cool


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## rickboy (Dec 5, 2009)

*Ramps*

Keep your eye out for  a 2nd hand pair(not left out in the rain so the welds go rusty) . But make sure they are heavy duty not light  car ramps.It's not possible to use many of these ramps on modern low fronted vehicles so there must be a few lying around unused.Ask Santa!!


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## runnach (Dec 5, 2009)

The standard jack is a scissor jack, for safety reasons not to sure I would want to be crawling underneathe a 3.5 tonne van with out axle stands.

Channa


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## rickboy (Dec 5, 2009)

*Not done it yet!!!!*

I used to work in aviation and heard a nice saying while working on a very old aircraft  "It got old by being safe"


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## biggirafe (Dec 5, 2009)

***** said:


> If you have a puncture at the side of the road you may not have a choice as I doubt that many of us will carry axle stands in our vans all of the time.
> The choice usually is call out assistance or crawl underneath yourself, but agree safety should be paramount.
> I carry the standard scissor jack and a couple of smallish bottle jacks, and also 2 pieces of 1 inch & a quarter thick board about 12 inch X 15 inch to sit the jacks on. Still a struggle to get the spare off and that is without a flat tyre
> I have little clearance at the side of the rear tyres and it has to be jacked up quite high to allow the wheel to come out from the skirt.
> ...




All true enough, I can do it on the side of the road but 9 times out of ten now I call the RAC thats what I paid me money for.

 Having said that my earlier post still stands as the RAC guy needs the spare to be in working order and he needs to be able to get it off or you might find he just gets you towed to a garage.


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## Norris (Dec 5, 2009)

If a puncture is repaired using one of the tyre weld repair kits, and then you had an accident before you could get the tyre repaired properly I wonder if the insurance would pay out?


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## runnach (Dec 5, 2009)

Norris said:


> If a puncture is repaired using one of the tyre weld repair kits, and then you had an accident before you could get the tyre repaired properly I wonder if the insurance would pay out?



If the tyre in question was an attributable factor to the accident, third party claims would be settled that is pretty straightforward.

What is slightly more complicated is the area of maintaining the vehicle to a competent standard, Often this is where magistrates courts become involved.
from a police standpoint...However their judgement even when positive doesnt necessarily mean the action of a RK was within the terms of an insurance policy 

All motor insurance has a 'subrogation' clause, this in simple terms means that after a third party has been paid ,the insurers reserve the right to pursue the individual that caused the loss. So in effect an insurance company could pursue you for their losses if they felt that you had introduced the 'proximate cause' that had triggered their loss.

Another principal of insurance is 'proximate cause' in other words was it your tyreweld that triggered off events. It is unlikely an insurer would pursue an insured execpt in the case of a drink drive drugs offence

Not a straightforward question I am afraid 
channa


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## biggirafe (Dec 5, 2009)

Norris said:


> If a puncture is repaired using one of the tyre weld repair kits, and then you had an accident before you could get the tyre repaired properly I wonder if the insurance would pay out?



You should check with your insurance if you want to carry tyre weld. Our company car insurance does not allow us to make any repairs or allow the tyre company to make repairs. We had an engineer make a repair a couple of years ago and then take it to the authorised tyre company. When they called the lease company to get authorisation to replace the tyre they reported the use of tyre weld. I got a call 5 minutes later from our head of transport who made it clear we were not to do this. Basicly our insurance would not cover us with defective tyres and this would consitute a defective tyre.


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## runnach (Dec 5, 2009)

biggirafe said:


> You should check with your insurance if you want to carry tyre weld. Our company car insurance does not allow us to make any repairs or allow the tyre company to make repairs. We had an engineer make a repair a couple of years ago and then take it to the authorised tyre company. When they called the lease company to get authorisation to replace the tyre they reported the use of tyre weld. I got a call 5 minutes later from our head of transport who made it clear we were not to do this. Basicly our insurance would not cover us with defective tyres and this would consitute a defective tyre.



I fully take onboard your comments re your insurance companies t&c's and your point re a company policy is very valid.

Company policies tend to be ' blanket ' policies and there is a reasonable expectation as your transport manager demonstrated that an individual in the company is competant normally a CPC holder in understanding the T&C's of your insurance.

FWIW, I assure you had you had an accident in the affected vehicle the third party claim would have been dealt with,However they could have excercised subrogation rights against your  company also  your companies own losses  were exposed.

Legally there is far more protection provided to an individual than a company.

In simple terms,  a Transport Manager or Company secretary is more aware of implications than the indiividual.

Channa


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## biggirafe (Dec 5, 2009)

channa said:


> I fully take onboard your comments re your insurance companies t&c's and your point re a company policy is very valid.
> 
> Company policies tend to be ' blanket ' policies and there is a reasonable expectation as your transport manager demonstrated that an individual in the company is competant normally a CPC holder in understanding the T&C's of your insurance.
> 
> ...



 absolutley I understand that, but to go back to the quetion by Norris, Yes probably a third party claim would be paid but do you want to be hagling with your insurance company who may argue the case that they will not pay for damage to your vehicle if you have comprehaensive cover. Mine cost a lot of dosh and tbh I would rather carry a decent spare than risk a claim being argued because I used tyre weld. Again its another one about risk and what each individual person is willing to risk, I might come across as a boring non risk taker but thats not the case, My risk was spending what to me is a fortune on my MH to then get silly and take risks just seems lain daft to me 

As I said I think people should ask their individual insurance comapanies what the position is regards tyre weld my insuarance states quite clearly roadworthy condition and I bet any expert will tell me that a tyre filled with tyre weld is not roadworthy, I would expect that the stuff also has a disclaimer on it to that effect as well.


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## maingate (Dec 5, 2009)

I am led to believe that if you carry a puncture repair aerosol instead of a spare wheel, once you have made the repair with the aerosol, that tyre is finished anyway.

It is something to do with the agent used in the aerosol. So a nail in your tyre can mean a new tyre (Michelin camping car £130). You will need a new aerosol repair kit as well. I believe that these can cost from £60 upwards. That is why I have decided to have a spare tyre.


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## biggirafe (Dec 5, 2009)

maingate said:


> I am led to believe that if you carry a puncture repair aerosol instead of a spare wheel, once you have made the repair with the aerosol, that tyre is finished anyway.
> 
> It is something to do with the agent used in the aerosol. So a nail in your tyre can mean a new tyre (Michelin camping car £130). You will need a new aerosol repair kit as well. I believe that these can cost from £60 upwards. That is why I have decided to have a spare tyre.



Thats a v good point


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## Norris (Dec 5, 2009)

Yes, like maingate (ex miner?) I prefer to carry a good spare, and to keep it in good condition. I also carry a hydraulic lifting jack and an extending wheel wrench, a warning triangle and a yellow jacket. I use commercial tyres which cost £40 each.


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## runnach (Dec 5, 2009)

biggirafe said:


> , Yes probably a third party claim would be paid but do you want to be hagling with your insurance company who may argue the case that they will not pay for damage to your vehicle if you have comprehaensive cover. Mine cost a lot of dosh and tbh I would rather carry a decent spare than risk a claim being argued because I used tyre weld. Again its another one about risk and what each individual person is willing to risk, I might come across as a boring non risk taker but thats not the case, My risk was spending what to me is a fortune on my MH to then get silly and take risks just seems lain daft to me
> 
> As I said I think people should ask their individual insurance comapanies what the position is regards tyre weld my insuarance states quite clearly roadworthy condition and I bet any expert will tell me that a tyre filled with tyre weld is not roadworthy, I would expect that the stuff also has a disclaimer on it to that effect as well.



You are right. It is important to remember an insurance is a contract of 'utmost good faith' Therefore anything that could influence an insurers premium, exposure to risk or indeed even influence them to take risk in the first place must be declared.

The most common occurences are failure of an insured to knowingfully or otherwise advise on modifications...I.e towbars sidesteps etc...perhaps a spacesver tyre and tyreweld.

Channa


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## David & Ann (Dec 6, 2009)

I had a flat in September in Spain. I first loosened the 5 nuts,then used a 10t bottle jack  and placed wooden blocks. Long awkard process of lowering the spare, it slides out from the angle when lowered. Got the flat to a garage and replaced it with a new tyre. The garage put the new spare back for me. It was hard getting the spare out.The garage struggled to put the new spare back under the chassis.


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## Norris (Dec 6, 2009)

Couple of years ago our Merlin had a flat on the M25, clockwise, about 20ft past an off ramp at about 10.00am, offside rear tyre. Had to pull onto the hard shoulder and change the wheel. A police car was parked on the shoulder of the off ramp and he just sat in his car and watched me. It is the fastest I have ever changed a wheel, but fortunately traffic was so slow moving I did not feel at risk.


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## n8rbos (Dec 7, 2009)

Norris said:


> If a puncture is repaired using one of the tyre weld repair kits, and then you had an accident before you could get the tyre repaired properly I wonder if the insurance would pay out?



tyreweld is a temporary 'get you to a garage' solution and as advised on side of tin a maximum speed also to be maintained!.if i had a flat on a busy motorway or country lane i would not want to be spending time under my van changinging wheels.30secs and i'm off again and the liquid will circulate and increase the pressure inside tyre,they are not a permanent solution to a tyre that needs attention.it could be argued with ins. com. that the use of tyreweld at that moment far outweighed the risk of a serious accident and very expensive claims to the ins.com!   i will still carry my tyreweldps if they weren't acceptable why do they supply them with vans/cars and also make them?


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## biggirafe (Dec 7, 2009)

n8rbos said:


> tyreweld is a temporary 'get you to a garage' solution and as advised on side of tin a maximum speed also to be maintained!.if i had a flat on a busy motorway or country lane i would not want to be spending time under my van changinging wheels.30secs and i'm off again and the liquid will circulate and increase the pressure inside tyre,they are not a permanent solution to a tyre that needs attention.it could be argued with ins. com. that the use of tyreweld at that moment far outweighed the risk of a serious accident and very expensive claims to the ins.com!   i will still carry my tyreweldps if they weren't acceptable why do they supply them with vans/cars and also make them?



They also supply a speedometer that goes far beyond the lagal max and in the case of a van beyond its capability.
The manufacturer does not know what your insurance company's position is 

I think the earlier point is the big one, if you use tyre weld you will not be able to repair the tyre and something that could have cost you myybe £10 to fix will cost you a new tyre maybe £100+


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## rommel (Dec 17, 2009)

*Spare wheel wincg*

I have a spare wheel winch that raises and lowers the spare wheel from under the bodyif any one wants to buy it , it is an early Transit one and works well


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## Kontiki (Dec 17, 2009)

I am lucky with my van that it comes with a spare mounted to the back wall in the garage. There seems to be a growing trend not to supply motorhomes with a spare, is it just to save money or to give the van more payload  A van tyre is a fair weight, mine would be easy to get out. If it was a back wheel I had to change I could lower the rear steadies & while these wouldn't lift the van they should support it in the event of the jack failing. If it was the front I have 2 axle stands I use for supporting my motorbike in the back of the van so I can use those.


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## zeezee16 (Dec 17, 2009)

rommel said:


> I have a spare wheel winch that raises and lowers the spare wheel from under the bodyif any one wants to buy it , it is an early Transit one and works well


I might be interested, how big is it. is it the one you wind up with the wheel brace. Can you post a pic, if not can you have a quick measure.
Cheers, Pete


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## tan-all-over (Dec 17, 2009)

walkers said:


> the advantages with the wheel under the  bonnet were its kept pretty much clean and its only a small lift from a comfortable height then down to the road, far easier than crawling underneath and dragging a dirty wheel out, or as in my case half emptying the storage area to access the wheel at the side of the road



Ours is under the bonnet which is not only kept clean and ready to use but also very easy to keep a check on the pressure. Just wonder how owners keep a check on spare wheels under the motorhomes..........


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## maingate (Dec 17, 2009)

For a few quid you can buy an extension hose which goes on the valve and leads to somewhere convenient to check the pressure.


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## tan-all-over (Dec 18, 2009)

maingate said:


> For a few quid you can buy an extension hose which goes on the valve and leads to somewhere convenient to check the pressure.



Thanks Maingate, just wonderd for when and if we change to a moden motorhome. regards Autoquest


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