# Marker Lights requirement for MOT?



## wildebus (Nov 22, 2021)

Does anyone KNOW if the top level Marker lights (on the corners on a tallish Motorhome) are an MOT requirement or not?

One of mine is out and it is cold outside so if I can delay getting up a ladder for another time I don't mind the light not working.  But I don't want an MOT failure becuase of that, of course!


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## SquirrellCook (Nov 22, 2021)

I'm sure the rules state that if a light is fitted it must work.  That said it seems to be down to whims of the examiner.  I'd phone the testing garage and ask.


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## Fisherman (Nov 22, 2021)

Yes marker lights are part of an MOT inspection. As previous poster states all lights fitted must also work.


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## Phantom (Nov 22, 2021)

They can get a bad connection. Try tapping it with a yard brush as a temporary fix!


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## mark61 (Nov 22, 2021)

I think it depends on width of vehicle,  2.1M springs to mind, but could be wrong.

Of course as already said they could use the all lights fitted must work line, depends what mood the tester is in.


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## mistericeman (Nov 22, 2021)

From the mot test manual 






						MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment - Guidance - GOV.UK
					

Headlamp, position lamps, daytime running lamps, stop lamps, indicators, hazard warning lamps, fog lamps, reversing lamps, lighting ‘tell-tales’, trailer electrical socket, electrical wiring and battery rules and inspection for car and passenger vehicle MOT tests.




					www.gov.uk
				











IF its both out at front/rear/side its likely to be bulbs.... 

One rear and one rear on opposite sides and/or one side marker on one side and one on the other is likely to be fuse related as they are fused to split the sides/front/rear so one blown fuse won't take ALL the lights, out on that side.... 

IF they are the wedge types (as on our swift) then the wires corrode and fail on a regular basis (I sorted that by fitting led versions that have a more substantial connection)


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## wildebus (Nov 22, 2021)

Cheers 
I'll get up that ladder then 

(I have a numberplate bulb out as well.   luckily I finally remembered to check those this time.  usually forget)


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## trevskoda (Nov 22, 2021)

wildebus said:


> Cheers
> I'll get up that ladder then
> 
> (I have a numberplate bulb out as well.   luckily I finally remembered to check those this time.  usually forget)


And your the spark on here.


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## mistericeman (Nov 22, 2021)

wildebus said:


> Cheers
> I'll get up that ladder then
> 
> (I have a numberplate bulb out as well.   luckily I finally remembered to check those this time.  usually forget)


Are both fronts out?


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## Robmac (Nov 22, 2021)

The marker lights on my last MH used to blow quite regularly, so eventually I removed them and replaced with new LED units. I never had the problem again.


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## wildebus (Nov 22, 2021)

mistericeman said:


> Are both fronts out?


two in front, two in back.  just one light out.

Went up ladder and removed cover ... basically surface corrosion stopping making a connection.  voltage is ok at 12V to the general fitting, but dropped to a poor 8V at the actual connection on the -ve side, but once cleaned up prongs and bulb (festoon type) with a dremel wire brush, got light on again enough to pass muster.
Bulb was pretty blackened, similiar to number plate light bulbs so I might refresh them all anyway.


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## wildebus (Nov 22, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> And your the spark on here.


Numberplate bulbs are always failing on motors - usually due to tailgate/boot lid slamming.   My T4 used to have to have a new one every year.


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## Heppy (Nov 22, 2021)

Had the MH in a garage last week and noticed the high brake light not working, mot man said not a failure but best to repair.


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## Norfolk NewBoy (Nov 23, 2021)

I must be a bad driver because I "lose" the top marker light every couple of years.

Gordon


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## Greengrass (Nov 23, 2021)

wildebus said:


> Does anyone KNOW if the top level Marker lights (on the corners on a tallish Motorhome) are an MOT requirement or not?
> 
> One of mine is out and it is cold outside so if I can delay getting up a ladder for another time I don't mind the light not working.  But I don't want an MOT failure becuase of that, of course!


I don't think so they did't when I had trucks on the road also when I took the old girl in for test this year top stop light not working tester said did't come in the test so it went through no problem


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## Fisherman (Nov 23, 2021)

*Taken from government website link below.*​​End-outline marker lamps​You must inspect end-outline marker lamps on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1991 that are wider than 2,100mm, excluding side mirrors.

Class 3 vehicles do not need end-outline marker lamps.

The front and rear end outline marker lamps on each side can be combined in one lamp.






						MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - 4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment - Guidance - GOV.UK
					

Headlamp, position lamps, daytime running lamps, stop lamps, indicators, hazard warning lamps, fog lamps, reversing lamps, lighting ‘tell-tales’, trailer electrical socket, electrical wiring and battery rules and inspection for car and passenger vehicle MOT tests.




					www.gov.uk


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## maingate (Nov 23, 2021)

I put my Burstner through the MOT and after it passed and I had the certificate I noticed a rear high level marker light not working. I told the tester about it and he said I had 12 months to get it fixed or it would be a fail next time.


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## wildebus (Nov 23, 2021)

Well,  it didn't fail the MOT on the marker lights, but then I fixed it before hand so non the wiser if it mattered or not 

I might ask the tester if he would have failed it on that if it were out 

(I am inclined to think it would not be a fail any more than if any side marker lights  were out, which are required on commercial vehicles over a certain length but not on the same vehicle when tested as a Motor Caravan.  Those can be fitted and still inoperable without a fail).


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## wildebus (Nov 23, 2021)

Fisherman said:


> *Taken from government website link below.*​​End-outline marker lamps​You must inspect end-outline marker lamps on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1991 that are wider than 2,100mm, excluding side mirrors.
> 
> Class 3 vehicles do not need end-outline marker lamps.
> 
> ...


There is an interesting proviso in that article ....

_"Vehicles do not need to be fitted with position lamps, or may have such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked if they are:_



_only used during daylight hours, and_
_not used at times of seriously reduced visibility_

_In this situation, you should issue an advisory. These vehicles do not need end-outline marker lamps."_

So take vehicle for a test and tell tester you don't use it in the dark or when the weather is very poor  (which is very likely true for many motorhome owners).
The tester is obliged to inspect and no more.


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## Tezza33 (Nov 23, 2021)

My van failed on the top marker light, it was a fail not an advisory
It needs repairing anyway (IMO) so it might as well just be fixed


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## trevskoda (Nov 23, 2021)

wildebus said:


> Numberplate bulbs are always failing on motors - usually due to tailgate/boot lid slamming.   My T4 used to have to have a new one every year.


Thats 100% as my skoda did that, but once led bulbs were fitted the problem went away, my van has all the bulbs led except the h lights


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## mistericeman (Nov 23, 2021)

wildebus said:


> There is an interesting proviso in that article ....
> 
> _"Vehicles do not need to be fitted with position lamps, or may have such lamps permanently disconnected, painted over or masked if they are:_
> 
> ...


What used to be known as a 'daytime MOT' (Actually no such thing exists) 

However get caught using a vehicle tested as such in the dark and its a world of pain. 

Far better to correct the defects


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## wildebus (Nov 23, 2021)

mistericeman said:


> What used to be known as a 'daytime MOT' (Actually no such thing exists)
> 
> However get caught using a vehicle tested as such in the dark and its a world of pain.
> 
> Far better to correct the defects


not denying the last point at all.   Purely commenting on the technical aspect.


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## mistericeman (Nov 23, 2021)

wildebus said:


> not denying the last point at all.   Purely commenting on the technical aspect.


Wasn't saying you were....
 I was merely commenting on the lengths that 'some' folks will go to in the name of avoiding fixing something


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## trevskoda (Nov 23, 2021)

Im up for test at 4.15 with my car, they always find something here to get more money from you, there are no advisories here, pass or fail.


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## Scotia (Nov 26, 2021)

I have a very understanding MOT chappie, if there is a problem he gives an advisory on which I will repair within a couple of days then let him know it has been done. Saves on me returning for the re-test as it is a two hour return journey excluding the MOT. Have been using the same guy the past 20 odd years. I usually give the vehicle a once over before heading for anything obvious.


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## trevskoda (Nov 26, 2021)

No advisories here, my car failed on what he said was an under depth tread which I saw 2mm on the gauge, so £15 and back again for retest Saterday.


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## Drover (Nov 26, 2021)

Mate is a tester..... top light markers must work  , side markers don't matter so just tape them up if they dont work...
New law on windscreens though.... dont have anything hanging on internal mirror or stickers in the screen including sat navs and cameras, some testers will fail that.... he calls 'em tossers


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## trevskoda (Nov 26, 2021)

Wondering about my WC sticker on the front left bottom corner of my screen.  
Yes furry dice magic trees etc no longer allowed to hang from rear v mirror.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2021)

Scotia said:


> I have a very understanding MOT chappie, if there is a problem he gives an advisory on which I will repair within a couple of days then let him know it has been done. Saves on me returning for the re-test as it is a two hour return journey excluding the MOT. Have been using the same guy the past 20 odd years. I usually give the vehicle a once over before heading for anything obvious.


There used to be a notorious MOT garage near me.   I needed a cheap car once when my own was crashed.... Bought an Renault 12 MOT Failure for £50  (slightly broken seat base), took it to that garage and gave them £30 (I think it was) to cover the MOT and 'any repairs' and collected it later that day with a fresh ticket.  One sidelight was out and apparently that failed after the MOT was completed 
All this well before computerisation of course!


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## trevskoda (Nov 26, 2021)

WE get some English mot tested cars here and to be honest they must have been backhanders, should have been in a scrap yard, very very strict over here.


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## Scotia (Nov 26, 2021)

wildebus said:


> There used to be a notorious MOT garage near me.   I needed a cheap car once when my own was crashed.... Bought an Renault 12 MOT Failure for £50  (slightly broken seat base), took it to that garage and gave them £30 (I think it was) to cover the MOT and 'any repairs' and collected it later that day with a fresh ticket.  One sidelight was out and apparently that failed after the MOT was completed
> All this well before computerisation of course!


This is not a dodgy mot, he knows I shall repair whats needing done.


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## mistericeman (Nov 26, 2021)

Scotia said:


> This is not a dodgy mot, he knows I shall repair whats needing done.


Thats why there are 'advisories' 

There isn't a catagory for 'It should FAIL but I know you'll fix it, so it's passed


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## peter palance (Nov 26, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> And your the spark on here.


sorry trev but you are bright. ok pj.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2021)

Scotia said:


> This is not a dodgy mot, he knows I shall repair whats needing done.


sorry, I did not mean to imply that at all.  I was just recanting an event from MY past, not your present.


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2021)

wildebus said:


> Does anyone KNOW if the top level Marker lights (on the corners on a tallish Motorhome) are an MOT requirement or not?
> 
> One of mine is out and it is cold outside so if I can delay getting up a ladder for another time I don't mind the light not working.  But I don't want an MOT failure becuase of that, of course!


So just collected the old boy and asked specifically about the lights ....
Definate fail if the lights were not operational, as was generally expected.   I did wonder if reflectors would have counted but that would not be sufficient.
The lens was cracked and the bottom of the glass had rust stains, so that would not of helped (I needed to clean the fitting before the new bulb would light up) so I think I'll probably get a pair of new lens for the fittings and maybe replace with LED bulbs as well?
This light fitting might also explain the random bulb out warning on the dashboard?   I looked around when that has been on and everything was working but may not have noticed the top markers (can be hard to see as setback a fair way).


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## bartman (Nov 26, 2021)

The original rear high level marker lights on my van had clip-on lenses. After losing two in rapid succession on the nearside when brushing past fairly minor foliage, I decided to fit some that were more secure and while doing so thought they might as well be LED. I got some of these a few years ago and have had no trouble since.
As for MOT requirements, I have always understood as others have said that any lights fitted to the vehicle must be working


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## wildebus (Nov 26, 2021)

not ANY lights.  some are optional.


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## Drover (Nov 27, 2021)

trevskoda said:


> Wondering about my WC sticker on the front left bottom corner of my screen.
> Yes furry dice magic trees etc no longer allowed to hang from rear v mirror.


I have the same sticker along with 2 more . He said tossers will fail that..


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