Morrisons ( REFUSE TO FILL LPG)

[Nabsim]

Its all down to how you use your van and what you have in it Barry.

I have 200Ah Lifepo4 still and 300W solar flat on the roof, a small setup these days lol. I only use gas for the hob and occasional oven use or if I want to cook with gas outside (rare). My 11Kg Gaslow bottle sits in the greenhouse these days and I just have a 6Kg Gas Bank multiple refillable piped in on the van. I can cook for months on that gas bottle and don't have to watch which pans I use. Heating is diesel and fridge is electric. I can sit for months like this as I did during the lockdown. Only needed water, toilet empty and food, I had access to a car then so van happily sat. Things change for me in Winter though and can't sit long unless I have the genny with me. I usually need food every 2 to 3 weeks so if I am isolated with just the van that's how long I can sit for most of the year,

I do have electric gear, coffee machine, air fryer, immersion heater, ceramic heater, remoska, slow cooker but took the microwave out as I only ever stored plates In it and more room with it gone lol. I rarely use any of the electric stuff, I suppose in summer coffee machine would be most used.

 

[The laird]

Neil you must be of Scottish blood ,if I posted that they'd say (typical tight gitttttt)nice one mate like it

 

[Fisherman]

Its all down to how you use your van and what you have in it Barry.

I have 200Ah Lifepo4 still and 300W solar flat on the roof, a small setup these days lol. I only use gas for the hob and occasional oven use or if I want to cook with gas outside (rare). My 11Kg Gaslow bottle sits in the greenhouse these days and I just have a 6Kg Gas Bank multiple refillable piped in on the van. I can cook for months on that gas bottle and don't have to watch which pans I use. Heating is diesel and fridge is electric. I can sit for months like this as I did during the lockdown. Only needed water, toilet empty and food, I had access to a car then so van happily sat. Things change for me in Winter though and can't sit long unless I have the genny with me. I usually need food every 2 to 3 weeks so if I am isolated with just the van that's how long I can sit for most of the year,

I do have electric gear, coffee machine, air fryer, immersion heater, ceramic heater, remoska, slow cooker but took the microwave out as I only ever stored plates In it and more room with it gone lol. I rarely use any of the electric stuff, I suppose in summer coffee machine would be most used.

Nab even with a gas boiler you’re limited in winter. On our last van we had two 6kg Calor, in cold winter days we could use a 6kg in 3-4 days. Now with our lithium and diesel boiler we could easily sit for 10-12-days in winter, so long as we don’t use our inverter. Im summer with 330w of solar we can’t use what we harvest, we could sit tight until the two gas cylinders run empty. We now have a 13 and a 6kg. I reckon they would last 4-6 weeks with constant use. We have an induction fridge, small gas oven and hob.
But would I rip out my fridge, fit an inverter, replace all my charging equipment for lithium compatible, replace my batteries, upgrade my solar, etc on an older van, I doubt it.

 

[Nabsim]

Nab even with a gas boiler you’re limited in winter. On our last van we had two 6kg Calor, in cold winter days we could use a 6kg in 3-4 days. Now with our lithium and diesel boiler we could easily sit for 10-12-days in winter, so long as we don’t use out inverter. Im summer with 330w of solar we can’t use what we harvest, we could sit tight until the two gas cylinders run empty. We now have a 13 and a 6kg. I reckon they would last 4-6 weeks with constant use. We have an induction fridge, small gas oven and hob.
But would I rip out my fridge, fit an inverter, replace all my charging equipment for lithium compatible, replace my batteries, upgrade my solar, etc on an older van, I doubt it.

I don't have a gas boiler Bill I have a calorofoer, (works off engine coolant) or an immersion heater. I don't usually worry about hot water, I boil a kettle. I will add that if Mrs was in theban I would have to do a lot of things differently and wouldn't be able to sit as long. Mrs looks on the van as a holiday, I just like the way of life

 

[Fazerloz]

The oven to be fair is neither here nor there. I think even if you went for diesel heating, compressor fridge and a lot of 240v appliances the amount of gas used for cooking only wouldn't be that much so I would probably keep the oven. It does have one electric ring our oven and of course there is already a 240v fitted microwave. So I guess when solar was plentiful with a big lithium system you could run both the microwave and possibly the electric hob off it (I bet that uses tons of power though) and just revert to the gas if you were staying a week or three and there wasn't much solar. I really wouldn't want to be without a full cooker and oven.

My worry would be (and it could be unfounded) that if you say had a week of not very sunny weather your ability to compromise with an all electric and diesel heating system is not as as easy as it is with a gas system as you will still need to run the fridge 24/7 and if its cold run the heating and heat up food or be forced to eat cold food With a gas system its not a problem.

You can turn it off overnight and make fair savings on elec with hardly any rise in temp as the door isn't been opened.

Nab even with a gas boiler you’re limited in winter. On our last van we had two 6kg Calor, in cold winter days we could use a 6kg in 3-4 days. Now with our lithium and diesel boiler we could easily sit for 10-12-days in winter, so long as we don’t use our inverter. Im summer with 330w of solar we can’t use what we harvest, we could sit tight until the two gas cylinders run empty. We now have a 13 and a 6kg. I reckon they would last 4-6 weeks with constant use. We have an induction fridge, small gas oven and hob.
But would I rip out my fridge, fit an inverter, replace all my charging equipment for lithium compatible, replace my batteries, upgrade my solar, etc on an older van, I doubt it.

Inductiion fridge ??????

 

[Fisherman]

I don't have a gas boiler Bill I have a calorofoer, (works off engine coolant) or an immersion heater. I don't usually worry about hot water, I boil a kettle. I will add that if Mrs was in theban I would have to do a lot of things differently and wouldn't be able to sit as long. Mrs looks on the van as a holiday, I just like the way of life

No we shower nab, and my wife likes hot running water.
But our Truma diesel boiler uses so little fuel it’s not an issue.
Things have changed so much in the past nine years since I got my first van.
And I don’t know were we will be nine years from now.
But lithium batteries have plummeted in price, making what used to be a luxury, now a no brainer for new and newer vans with all the right charging equipment in place.
Even if I needed to replace my charging equipment I would not hesitate to go lithium.
It’s been a massive game changer for us.

 

[barryd]

As always it's 'orses fer courses Barry.

Julie will really miss her gas oven and I for one have always preferred cooking on gas hobs. Having said that I've only used the Induction hob once or twice and yet to use the Air Fryer in the van so it's a learning curve for us. We also have the Remoska which is only 400W but then cooking will take longer in that, and the Microwave for pre-cooked meals which is a lot quicker.

We will never be stuck though, as I said earlier we will carry a Bistro Stove and we will also carry our Cobb BBQ (which I absolutely love!) and if the worst comes to the worst I can always fire up the Woodgas stove with a few twigs and Pinecones!

There's no rules though, stick with what you are comfortable and happy with.

Don't get me wrong Rob. I love all this stuff and find it interesting. Without doubt I agree with Bill that fitting lead acid in new vans is crackers but I think its at least an option now. I'm all for embracing the new technology. I'm just not 100% convinced yet that with our style of motorhoming I wouldn't come unstuck relying too much on batteries only but perhaps I'm completely wrong. Its all hypothetical anyway as with our current set up I see no need to change right now. Its worked well this year. I reckon it wouldn't be that big a job to swap those two 120ah Lead acids for two Fogstar 300s now though. I think they would fit and then there is just the alternator charger and 240v charger to change I guess. Merl!!!!!

 

[Fisherman]

You can turn it off overnight and make fair savings on elec with hardly any rise in temp as the door isn't been opened.


Inductiion fridge ??????

Aye alright smarty pants Chris, absorption.

 

[Fazerloz]

Aye alright smarty pants Chris, absorption.

You never know these days trying to keep up with technology.

 

[Robmac]

Don't get me wrong Rob. I love all this stuff and find it interesting. Without doubt I agree with Bill that fitting lead acid in new vans is crackers but I think its at least an option now. I'm all for embracing the new technology. I'm just not 100% convinced yet that with our style of motorhoming I wouldn't come unstuck relying too much on batteries only but perhaps I'm completely wrong. Its all hypothetical anyway as with our current set up I see no need to change. Its worked well this year. I reckon it wouldn't be that big a job to swap those two 120ah Lead acids for two Fogstar 300s now though. I think they would fit and then there is just the alternator and 240v charger to change I guess. Merl!!!!!

I can see that manufacturers would fit Lithium batteries before too long Barry, but the more I think about it I can't see them turning out all electric vans just yet.

The less users need the facilities of sites such as EHU they might be more inclined to stay off grid which the large site organisations, let alone councils (in the UK anyway) might not be happy about?

Having said that, I'm not sure that they could influence progress in that direction - who knows?

 

[Fisherman]

I can see that manufacturers would fit Lithium batteries before too long Barry, but the more I think about it I can't see them turning out all electric vans just yet.

The less users need the facilities of sites such as EHU they might be more inclined to stay off grid which the large site organisations, let alone councils (in the UK anyway) might not be happy about?

Having said that, I'm not sure that they could influence progress in that direction - who knows?

You’re not related to the Redferns from Dornoch campsite by any chance Rob, are you.

 

[Robmac]

You’re not related to the Redferns from Dornoch campsite by any chance Rob, are you.

Definitely not Bill! They would be the first to object to self sufficient Motorhomes though!

 

[barryd]

Barry as Rob says it’s what you’re comfortable with, and yes going all electric would necessitate a slight change in habits particularly in winter. But I reckon the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. But as I said I am not recommending that everyone with older vans should go down this route, but possibly they should look into it with an open mind. Old habits die hard, and getting your head around this can be difficult. But with future improvements in battery and solar technology, it won’t be long I reckon before lead batteries and gas are history in new vans. Right now manufacturers are extracting urine, but the marketplace will soon sort this out.

Its not a case of old habits die hard Bill. I understand the advantages and disadvantages and right now for our current needs the system we have works.

Lets work out the ball park cost if I was to change what is currently a working system. These are off the top of my head so please feel free everyone to correct my calculations.

2 x Fogstar 300s. (say £1300)
Extra 300w solar £300
6kw diesel heating system inc install £3500
Compressor fridge (large) £1000
Electric cooker induction hob thing £600
Cabling, fittings new controllers alternator changes, 240v charger etc etc lets say £500

Fitting of all the solar and other bits £1000+ (assuming I Can't bribe Merl to do it with cider).

Where are we at so far? £8200. Quite a chunk of money. Thats a lot of LPG.

I would say for us it would be a case of if its not broken don't fix it and when it is broken then look at it.

 

[Fisherman]

Definitely not Bill! They would be the first to object to self sufficient Motorhomes though!

I’m off to watch the latest movie on VHS, then listen to some LW radio, but first I have to go out and crank up my engine because my wet lead batteries are going flat after watching the CRT tv for 15 minutes. Why they ever done away with horse and cart eludes me, it really does.

 

[TJBi]

Long way for me to go just to get a refill.

But it all depends on where you're starting from. I wouldn't start from where you are.

 

[Fisherman]

Its not a case of old habits die hard Bill. I understand the advantages and disadvantages and right now for our current needs the system we have works.

Lets work out the ball park cost if I was to change what is currently a working system. These are off the top of my head so please feel free everyone to correct my calculations.

2 x Fogstar 300s. (say £1300)
Extra 300w solar £300
6kg diesel heating system inc install £3500
Compressor fridge (large) £1000
Electric cooker induction hob thing £600
Cabling, fittings new controllers alternator changes, 240v charger etc etc lets say £500

Fitting of all the solar and other bits £1000+ (assuming I Can't bribe Merl to do it with cider).

Where are we at so far? £8200. Quite a chunk of money. Thats a lot of LPG.

I would say for us it would be a case of if its not broken don't fix it and when it is broken then look at it.

That’s why I don’t think I would either Barry.
But I would consider lithium Barry.
Honestly it would be money well spent when your lead batteries give up.
All you would need would be about 200ah, but the more the better.
The batteries I have now are about £280 each that’s 2 100ah with heaters and Bluetooth BMS. All I have is 330w solar, and 200ah lithium, and in summer even using the inverter as often as I like we never go below 60% after a week. Obviously you have to take care in winter, but the Victron 50amp B2B puts in slung 30% in a hours drive.

 

[TJBi]

Sorry Barry. But my diesel heater uses almost nothing after initial set up.
I can’t remember the readings I get on my victron shunt, buts is negligible.
But for the first two or three minutes it uses substantially more.
Barry an oven is not mandatory in any van, most Europeans don’t have ovens, and many supplied to the uk come without them. You don’t “need” an oven, and an induction hob uses much less power than a conventional hob. But if you would prefer an oven a microwave may suffice.
I am not saying that you should convert to all electric, my point only involves new vans being supplied today with outdated lead batteries, which are to all intents and purpose obsolete. Why are we using batteries which have half usable capacity, more than double the weight, and much reduced recharge lifespans, which cost in real terms much more than lithium. There’s nothing stopping manufacturers supplying you with enough power to sit for a week or two in one place in winter, the technology is already out there. Then simply head to a CL or a site for a night and recharge. As I said Barry with my previous van with gas heating, staying in one place for three weeks was never an option. But doing this will involve some compromise, but the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

So far as I am concerned an oven/grill IS mandatory unless equipped with an inverter and large capacity air fryer (and perhaps microwave) and the battery and recharging capacity to cope.

 

[barryd]

That’s why I don’t think I would either Barry.
But I would consider lithium Barry.
Honestly it would be money well spent when your lead batteries give up.
All you would need would be about 200ah, but the more the better.
The batteries I have now are about £280 each that’s 2 100ah with heaters and Bluetooth BMS. All I have is 330w solar, and 200ah lithium, and in summer even using the inverter as often as I like we never go below 60% after a week. Obviously you have to take care in winter, but the Victron 50amp B2B puts in slung 30% in a hours drive.

I suspect once these batteries die (They are 2024 and 2025 and identical) ill go Lithium but probably replace them with the two largest ones I can fit in the battery locker which would be 2 x Fogstar 300ahs probably. I have the battery space so may as well fill it and I would put some more solar on. I probably wouldn't change anything else though but it would be future proofed for when I did. There just wasn't the need this year when a quick £300 fix with an extra panel and battery pretty much solved the power issues we had in 2024. There wouldn't be much point in me just putting in a single 200ah lithium battery. It wont give me much more than I have now.

 

[Fisherman]

So far as I am concerned an oven/grill IS mandatory unless equipped with an inverter and large capacity air fryer (and perhaps microwave) and the battery and recharging capacity to cope.

If it was mandatory every van would have one. Its an option that some prefer.
Don't get me wrong we like our gas oven even if its tiny.
But we could live without one, if the benefits of going all electric made it viable.
I think it does, but then thats debatable.

 

[marchie]

I can see that manufacturers would fit Lithium batteries before too long Barry, but the more I think about it I can't see them turning out all electric vans just yet.

The less users need the facilities of sites such as EHU they might be more inclined to stay off grid which the large site organisations, let alone councils (in the UK anyway) might not be happy about?

Having said that, I'm not sure that they could influence progress in that direction - who knows?

European manufacturers have a much larger market to aim at [using total EU population as a proxy, about 7.5 times higher than UK], Rob, and Aire-based camping, rather than pure 'sites with EHU' is more popular. At the minute, the manufacturers get away with fitting old tech, but with the increasing need to compete for sales, the competitive advantage of offering lithium batteries + sensible levels of solar power [facilitation v obstructionism] plus the economies o scale make an attractive proposition, especially now that the major players can no longer just sit on their corporate ar$es and watch the money roll in. And, if they do it right, they can boast of their contribution to fighting climate change - useful ammunition when working with EU policy makers

Steve