Morrisons ( REFUSE TO FILL LPG)

[mark61]

Gas still has it place for lifers and people who use their van a lot, but don't drive much especially during winter months.

Next van certainly won't have gas, actually, current van won't have gas next year.

 

[barryd]

I think we were about spot on this year with what the excellent Mr Merlin installed.

240ah of new lead acid, 230-240w of Solar (not sure how big the original one was). April to October it worked fine really. Just one wobble towards the end when there was a massive storm and not much sun. Outside of those months I would be on hookup anyway.

The cost of changing everything to electric would be eyewatering which would be ok if I thought I needed it but I don't right now. LPG still seems fairly easy to get in France at least and you can always get Calor here. I might look at it again but probably only when (not if) the 3 way fridge and Truma packs up at some stage.

 

[mistericeman]

I think if I built another van od go with something like the Wallas diesel stove/oven...

Mind for the amount of actual cooking I do in the van....
I'd probably go for a Bubble diesel fire instead... (being drip feed they don't need any precious winter electric)

 

[Fazerloz]

I've just bought a van with an underslung gas tank for cooking , diesel heating and hot water 320w of panels with 230a lithium with room for another. I don't want all my eggs in one basket.

 

[Robmac]

I've just bought a van with an underslung gas tank for cooking , diesel heating and hot water 320w of panels with 230a lithium with room for another. I don't want all my eggs in one basket.

I've a very similar setup to Chris @edina (except I only have 600AH of Lithiums). Which should cover the style of camping we do which is only stay in one place for 2-3 nights and then move on.

We will always carry a Bistro stove and a gas cannister for emergencies though but hopefully won't need them.

 

[mark61]

I've just bought a van with an underslung gas tank for cooking , diesel heating and hot water 320w of panels with 230a lithium with room for another. I don't want all my eggs in one basket.

That's a good point, I might keep my underslung gas tank.

 

[Pudsey Bear]

I think we were about spot on this year with what the excellent Mr Merlin installed.

240ah of new lead acid, 230-240w of Solar (not sure how big the original one was). April to October it worked fine really. Just one wobble towards the end when there was a massive storm and not much sun. Outside of those months I would be on hookup anyway.

The cost of changing everything to electric would be eyewatering which would be ok if I thought I needed it but I don't right now. LPG still seems fairly easy to get in France at least and you can always get Calor here. I might look at it again but probably only when (not if) the 3 way fridge and Truma packs up at some stage.

3 ways can be fixed tha knows, they are very simple things, not many things go wrong, at least the ones prior to the AES ones, thermocouple, just change it, selector switch strip and clean the contacts, and the burner jet just needs cleaning, the ones I've had were all stainless steel, so it is all doable, the elements could act up, but I've had more old vans that most and they have never been a problem

 

[Fisherman]

I remain unconvinced though that gas free is going to be that easy for someone with our style of camping. Diesel heaters and water heating use more 12v power than gas ones, electric cookers use a lot of power and then there is a large compressor fridge. I reckon for say three weeks in one spot and especially if you need heating as well thats a lot lithium and solar you are going to need. Its definitely the way its going but I just can't get my head around just how much power and solar you would need. There are very few real world motorhomers I have come across who camp like we do who have been able to tell me what their set up is and if its up to the job.

Barry there is no one size fits all, I was not stating that.
But my diesel heater only uses more electricity on start up for about two minutes then it uses the same as my gas combi did on my last van. You gave an extreme example three weeks in one spot. Well if using gas to heat your van in winter with my old van I would have emptied both my cylinders in less than that time. Remaining for three weeks in one place in winter would not have been an option. You mentioned electric oven I assume you mean an optional microwave, I don’t reckon in warmer months running a microwave, compressor fridge, and an induction hob would be an issue so long as you had sufficient solar, and battery amps. In winter you would probably have to resort to EHU after a period, but that would come down to how much current you are drawing.
Going fully electric may mean being willing to compromise on oven use in winter, or not having one at all. But remaining three weeks in one spot using gas heating in winter would not have been possible with my previous van. The fact is for the vast majority of users all electric would work, in most circumstances.

 

[trevskoda]

Somebody asked where the 'reach out' phrase had come from on 'Quora', I love this bloke's reply;

"Reach out" goes on my short list of words and phrases that should be dragged down a dark alley, beaten over the head with sledge hammers, submerged in vats of acid, pecked to death by ducks, forced to listen to Barney the Dinosaur songs and Justin Beiber, exposed to high levels of radiation, made to drink white zinfandel, forced to shop at Walmart, shuttered in dark rooms with hungry rats and mice, given a diet of razor blades and head lice, have eyes stabbed with ice-picks, be hung-up on by telemarketers, and be given perpetual titty-twisters.

And that's just for starters. Dreadful, abysmally vapid, horrendously insipid, stupid and obnoxious.

I don't know who is behind this atrocious and insidious mangling and slaughter of business and customer contact language, but SOMEBODY is. This is a planned thing. I know this, because the phrase "reach out" keeps showing up in places that one would think would be immune to the infestation. I first heard it from the pathetic and annoying horde of mortgage brokers who wanted to "just reach out" and see what I thought of their cheap mortgage deals. And then, it appeared more and more often from other unthinking blobs of humanity contacting me from all manner of enterprise: charities, political calls, even appointment reminders. It was spreading, spreading, I say, like the putrescence of an unlicensed country abattoir on a hot afternoon. But when my BROKER called and said, "Mr. Geare, I just wanted to reach out..." that was the camel that broke the straw's back!

So I asked him, "Have you just been through some sales training in which the instructor suggested that saying "reach out" will give you a bit more leverage than just saying, 'ask,' or 'tell me about?'" And indeed, such was the case - he HAD; they all had! (And this is one of the largest brokerage outfits in the US).

And so, I said, "We'll you just tell the marketing guy in your office that the phrase is a disingenuous presumption on my predisposition to be persuaded by your pitch. In all these years, I have never known you to fall for whatever marketing fad might have been making the rounds, and you don't need to start NOW. And don't you, yourself, feel a bit odd using the phrase?" He agreed that it didn't sound natural to him, either. And he has, since that call, not repeated it.

SO, if YOU are using it, see the first paragraph. And if you are hearing it, then advise people to knock off the synthetic emotional outreach and talk like a normal human being."

Thats me fooked with all the Irish sayings.

 

[barryd]

Barry there is no one size fits all, I was not stating that.
But my diesel heater only uses more electricity on start up for about two minutes then it uses the same as my gas combi did on my last van. You gave an extreme example three weeks in one spot. Well if using gas to heat your van in winter with my old van I would have emptied both my cylinders in less than that time. Remaining for three weeks in one place in winter would not have been an option. You mentioned electric oven I assume you mean an optional microwave, I don’t reckon in warmer months running a microwave, compressor fridge, and an induction hob would be an issue so long as you had sufficient solar, and battery amps. In winter you would probably have to resort to EHU after a period, but that would come down to how much current you are drawing.
Going fully electric may mean being willing to compromise on oven use in winter, or not having one at all. But remaining three weeks in one spot using gas heating in winter would not have been possible with my previous van. The fact is for the vast majority of users all electric would work, in most circumstances.

I wasn't even talking about the depths of winter Bill. Spring and autumn really. I'm pretty sure (but stand to be corrected) diesel heaters use more power than gas heaters even after the initial start up period. I meant a full oven with cooking rings. If you're properly gasless you would need an electric oven replacement. One, two or three weeks or even more in the past in one spot is not extreme for us. I'm sure its possible but I am not seeing many real world examples of motorhomes who have gone electric doing it so I just don't know what set up you would need in the UK to deal with that.

 

[trevskoda]

I remain unconvinced though that gas free is going to be that easy for someone with our style of camping. Diesel heaters and water heating use more 12v power than gas ones, electric cookers use a lot of power and then there is a large compressor fridge. I reckon for say three weeks in one spot and especially if you need heating as well thats a lot lithium and solar you are going to need. Its definitely the way its going but I just can't get my head around just how much power and solar you would need. There are very few real world motorhomers I have come across who camp like we do who have been able to tell me what their set up is and if its up to the job.

Who in there right mind would stay in one place for 3 weeks, cant imagine the amount of toilet waste dumped over the hedge to stink the cows away.

 

[barryd]

Who in tyher right mind would stay in one place for 3 weeks, cant imagine the amount of toilet waste dumped over the hedge to stink the cows away.

Chuckle. You can still take your Thetford to be emptied Trev in an appropriate place.

 

[trevskoda]

We made our latest van gas free and it’s one of the best decisions we have made. Anyone going to do it needs to work out their needs and make sure they have enough battery storage and enough means of charging. I’ve seen a few where folk have made half hearted attempts and complained when it fails them, it needs to be calculated properly!
(We have 900+ ah of battery, 50amp b2b and 860w of solar)

That would power our house, ever think of selling back to the grid.

 

[trevskoda]

LPG still seems fairly easy to get in France at least and you can always get Calor here.

Long way for me to go just to get a refill.

 

[Fisherman]

I wasn't even talking about the depths of winter Bill. Spring and autumn really. I'm pretty sure (but stand to be corrected) diesel heaters use more power than gas heaters even after the initial start up period. I meant a full oven with cooking rings. If you're properly gasless you would need an electric oven replacement. One, two or three weeks or even more in the past in one spot is not extreme for us. I'm sure its possible but I am not seeing many real world examples of motorhomes who have gone electric doing it so I just don't know what set up you would need in the UK to deal with that.

Sorry Barry. But my diesel heater uses almost nothing after initial set up.
I can’t remember the readings I get on my victron shunt, buts is negligible.
But for the first two or three minutes it uses substantially more.
Barry an oven is not mandatory in any van, most Europeans don’t have ovens, and many supplied to the uk come without them. You don’t “need” an oven, and an induction hob uses much less power than a conventional hob. But if you would prefer an oven a microwave may suffice.
I am not saying that you should convert to all electric, my point only involves new vans being supplied today with outdated lead batteries, which are to all intents and purpose obsolete. Why are we using batteries which have half usable capacity, more than double the weight, and much reduced recharge lifespans, which cost in real terms much more than lithium. There’s nothing stopping manufacturers supplying you with enough power to sit for a week or two in one place in winter, the technology is already out there. Then simply head to a CL or a site for a night and recharge. As I said Barry with my previous van with gas heating, staying in one place for three weeks was never an option. But doing this will involve some compromise, but the benefits outweigh the disadvantages.

 

[Nabsim]

New motorhomes are usually designed to be used rarely and to sit on a camp site connected when they are used. I don't think the cost saving is there yet for a manufacturer to go mainstream all electric with decent kit in it. Some are offering options but its more dipping their toes in the water at the moment.

 

[Robmac]

I think most people who have switched to leccy only use Air Fryers and Microwaves rather than ovens now?

 

[barryd]

The oven to be fair is neither here nor there. I think even if you went for diesel heating, compressor fridge and a lot of 240v appliances the amount of gas used for cooking only wouldn't be that much so I would probably keep the oven. It does have one electric ring our oven and of course there is already a 240v fitted microwave. So I guess when solar was plentiful with a big lithium system you could run both the microwave and possibly the electric hob off it (I bet that uses tons of power though) and just revert to the gas if you were staying a week or three and there wasn't much solar. I really wouldn't want to be without a full cooker and oven.

My worry would be (and it could be unfounded) that if you say had a week of not very sunny weather your ability to compromise with an all electric and diesel heating system is not as as easy as it is with a gas system as you will still need to run the fridge 24/7 and if its cold run the heating and heat up food or be forced to eat cold food With a gas system its not a problem.

 

[Robmac]

The oven to be fair is neither here nor there. I think even if you went for diesel heating, compressor fridge and a lot of 240v appliances the amount of gas used for cooking only wouldn't be that much so I would probably keep the oven. It does have one electric ring our oven and of course there is already a 240v fitted microwave. So I guess when solar was plentiful with a big lithium system you could run both the microwave and possibly the electric hob off it (I bet that uses tons of power though) and just revert to the gas if you were staying a week or three and there wasn't much solar. I really wouldn't want to be without a full cooker and oven.

My worry would be (and it could be unfounded) that if you say had a week of not very sunny weather your ability to compromise with an all electric and diesel heating system is not as as easy as it is with a gas system as you will still need to run the fridge 24/7 and if its cold run the heating and heat up food or be forced to eat cold food With a gas system its not a problem.

As always it's 'orses fer courses Barry.

Julie will really miss her gas oven and I for one have always preferred cooking on gas hobs. Having said that I've only used the Induction hob once or twice and yet to use the Air Fryer in the van so it's a learning curve for us. We also have the Remoska which is only 400W but then cooking will take longer in that, and the Microwave for pre-cooked meals which is a lot quicker.

We will never be stuck though, as I said earlier we will carry a Bistro Stove and we will also carry our Cobb BBQ (which I absolutely love!) and if the worst comes to the worst I can always fire up the Woodgas stove with a few twigs and Pinecones!

There's no rules though, stick with what you are comfortable and happy with.

 

[Fisherman]

The oven to be fair is neither here nor there. I think even if you went for diesel heating, compressor fridge and a lot of 240v appliances the amount of gas used for cooking only wouldn't be that much so I would probably keep the oven. It does have one electric ring our oven and of course there is already a 240v fitted microwave. So I guess when solar was plentiful with a big lithium system you could run both the microwave and possibly the electric hob off it (I bet that uses tons of power though) and just revert to the gas if you were staying a week or three and there wasn't much solar. I really wouldn't want to be without a full cooker and oven.

My worry would be (and it could be unfounded) that if you say had a week of not very sunny weather your ability to compromise with an all electric and diesel heating system is not as as easy as it is with a gas system as you will still need to run the fridge 24/7 and if its cold run the heating and heat up food or be forced to eat cold food With a gas system its not a problem.

Barry as Rob says it’s what you’re comfortable with, and yes going all electric would necessitate a slight change in habits particularly in winter. But I reckon the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. But as I said I am not recommending that everyone with older vans should go down this route, but possibly they should look into it with an open mind. Old habits die hard, and getting your head around this can be difficult. But with future improvements in battery and solar technology, it won’t be long I reckon before lead batteries and gas are history in new vans. Right now manufacturers are extracting urine, but the marketplace will soon sort this out.