The camping and caravan clubs anti wild camping letter.

Write letters to the CCC mag if you want to change things. Moaning on here will have no effect, but lots of(moderate) letters to the club will be noticed.

I have written three times to the CCC, my last email containing my reply to mr Currie. Post 65. I doubt that I will be alone. Or possibly some won’t reply, but just leave without writing.

if you wish to contact them it’s

Mailbag@campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk
 
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Thanks for putting the link up again. I have had a look at the original article which provoked the letter as well as the reply from the editor. I will be making a plea for more facilities such as the South Harris Trust and others. Its no use just complaining you have to put forward explanations and suggestions.
 
Thanks for putting the link up again. I have had a look at the original article which provoked the letter as well as the reply from the editor. I will be making a plea for more facilities such as the South Harris Trust and others. Its no use just complaining you have to put forward explanations and suggestions.

So we just ignore a letter that was written by someone clearly with an axe to grind, who is clearly contemptuous of us, who states that what we do is illegal, referring to an act that has nothing to do with us, and creates an impression that we empty our cassettes wherever we want, don’t give a dam about the locals wherever we go, and generally speaking are just a bunch of inconsiderate, selfish people. And an editor who backs up his claim that what we do is illegal, and tells us we should only ever use official campsites. Sorry for me and I am sure many others a line was crossed.

As for putting forward suggestions that’s another issue.
First and before anyone will take notice of any such suggestions, I think it’s important that such a biased letter should be challenged. If it’s not challenged then it will simply be accepted as factual, and an accurate portrayal of us. Which I don’t believe it to be.
 
Motorhomes I would say the majority I have spoken have done some wild camping Sam. But this guy claims to own a camper van, I reckon the vast majority of them wild camp. Bottom line if the CCC have say 100,000 Motorhome users, they just slapped around 50-60,000 of their members in the face. Hardly good business practice.
Like you I'm surprised at the thinking but new vans don't seem to be built for wilding. They have a toilet cassette the size of a p*spot, a fridge that has to be level, an electric hob and 230v outside socket.
 
So we just ignore a letter that was written by someone clearly with an axe to grind, who is clearly contemptuous of us, who states that what we do is illegal, referring to an act that has nothing to do with us, and creates an impression that we empty our cassettes wherever we want, don’t give a dam about the locals wherever we go, and generally speaking are just a bunch of inconsiderate, selfish people. And an editor who backs up his claim that what we do is illegal, and tells us we should only ever use official campsites. Sorry for me and I am sure many others a line was crossed.

As for putting forward suggestions that’s another issue.
First and before anyone will take notice of any such suggestions, I think it’s important that such a biased letter should be challenged. If it’s not challenged then it will simply be accepted as factual, and an accurate portrayal of us. Which I don’t believe it to be.
No way do we ignore the letter, but to just refute his comments misses an opportunity to put the case for better facilities for motorhomers throughout the UK. The more letters that go in taking issue with the Scott Currie's letter the better. However we each need to do it in our out way.
 
No way do we ignore the letter, but to just refute his comments misses an opportunity to put the case for better facilities for motorhomers throughout the UK. The more letters that go in taking issue with the Scott Currie's letter the better. However we each need to do it in our out way.

I would encourage as many as possible to write in to the CCC.
They wrongly gave a platform to mr Currie to take a swipe at us and tarnish our reputation, not to give a balanced view, as I have done in reply.
I only hope that they at least allow us to challenge his totally biased rhetoric.
If not then I will have consider my membership with them.
 
I would encourage as many as possible to write in to the CCC.
They wrongly gave a platform to mr Currie to take a swipe at us and tarnish our reputation, not to give a balanced view, as I have done in reply.
I only hope that they at least allow us to challenge his totally biased rhetoric.
If not then I will have consider my membership with them.

My email to the CCC:-

Dear Sirs

I have noted the letter in your June edition of the club magazine from Scott Currie and the editors response.

The Camping and Caravan Club do offer a motorhome service stop for £7 at a number of their sites so they clearly do recognise that those with motorhomes do not always park overnight on a campsite. The response to the letter overlooked this.

As for the reference to the Land Reform Act in Scotland by the letter writer, and the comment relating to the right to roam excluding motorised vehicles, this surely has to imply those with 4x4 type vehicles. It is very unlikely that a motorhome would be able to roam across the Scottish highlands at will once off the public highway.

And talking of public highway, the world ”public“ seems to have been overlooked by the CCC and the letter writer.

When on the public highway the Scottish Land Act has no legal status as it is not privately owned land. And the public highway does include verges up to and including any fencing should any be present.

The motorhome parked up in the magazine photo is clearly parked on a verge on the public highway and so Is doing no wrong. Both the letter writer and the club response have lost sight of this and in so doing have muddied the waters for the clubs motorhome members.

Motorhomes are permitted to enter and leave the Trossachs on a public highway without restriction during the day. The pre booking system only applies to those who wish to park up overnight in one of the car parks in that area which fall within the scope of the park authority. The park authority does state that you do not require a permit to stay in a lay-by overnight as this is part of the public highway, but they do state that this type of stop is to be for short use only and not for extended stays.

Whilst there may be local bylaws and restrictions, there is no national law in Scotland preventing overnight parking or sleeping in a motorised vehicle on a public highway. The same situation applies UK wide.

Regards
 
My email to the CCC:-

Dear Sirs

I have noted the letter in your June edition of the club magazine from Scott Currie and the editors response.

The Camping and Caravan Club do offer a motorhome service stop for £7 at a number of their sites so they clearly do recognise that those with motorhomes do not always park overnight on a campsite. The response to the letter overlooked this.

As for the reference to the Land Reform Act in Scotland by the letter writer, and the comment relating to the right to roam excluding motorised vehicles, this surely has to imply those with 4x4 type vehicles. It is very unlikely that a motorhome would be able to roam across the Scottish highlands at will once off the public highway.

And talking of public highway, the world ”public“ seems to have been overlooked by the CCC and the letter writer.

When on the public highway the Scottish Land Act has no legal status as it is not privately owned land. And the public highway does include verges up to and including any fencing should any be present.

The motorhome parked up in the magazine photo is clearly parked on a verge on the public highway and so Is doing no wrong. Both the letter writer and the club response have lost sight of this and in so doing have muddied the waters for the clubs motorhome members.

Motorhomes are permitted to enter and leave the Trossachs on a public highway without restriction during the day. The pre booking system only applies to those who wish to park up overnight in one of the car parks in that area which fall within the scope of the park authority. The park authority does state that you do not require a permit to stay in a lay-by overnight as this is part of the public highway, but they do state that this type of stop is to be for short use only and not for extended stays.

Whilst there may be local bylaws and restrictions, there is no national law in Scotland preventing overnight parking or sleeping in a motorised vehicle on a public highway. The same situation applies UK wide.

Regards

Well said moped, hopefully their inbox will be inundated with letters.
Possibly even the penny might drop, that that letter being printed by them was a grave error of judgement for an organisation who have thousands of wild campers as members.
Also moped from October to April you can park overnight in Loch Lomond and the Trossachs without payment or permission, the controls only apply in summer months. Just in case you fancy a winters trip.
Actually when you think about it, the Trossachs are the only part of Scotland where you are not permitted to wild camp without a permit, not the only place you can wild camp as the editor states.

Thank you moped.
 
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When I sent my first email I got a reply within minutes from Emily at the CCC.
Second time again within minutes a reply stating that they would publish my reply but it may be edited.
Third, telling them how I felt, and replying to mr Curries letter, well still waiting for a reply. I reckon they have had a few letters. Let’s see what is published, if anything.
If they don’t give us the same platform they gave mr Currie, it speaks multitudes.
 
The final reply clearing stating my letter would be published.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your email and we look forward to receiving, and publishing, your letter.

It's quite right for you to let us know your thoughts - the magazine is for the members - and yes, I agree that it would have been clearer if we had referenced Skye.

Kind Regards,
Emily

On 19/05/2020, 16:03
 
Lets see what they publish if any part of this.

Scott Curries letter regarding wild camping raised many issues.

First let me make myself clear, I detest anyone in a motorhome who behaves poorly, and gives an otherwise friendly well behaved community poor name.
The behaviour of a tiny minority at the start of this crisis, was shameful, but may have been more to do with naivety and lack of clarity from our government than selfish or stupid behaviour.
And since these unfortunate indiscretions our community has behaved well, I only wish the same could be said of others who have put lives at risk with their selfish behaviour.
It's a pity that these same media outlets who reported such poor behaviour also failed to report that 99% of us did not take part in these acts.

But back to the main point ‘wild camping’, a term that seems to generate passionate debate from some who have little or no knowledge of us or what we do.
Scott comments on things that he has witnessed on his Island. Which Island I don’t know, but I am guessing as its in Argyle and Bute it may be Mull, or one of the southern Hebridean islands.
But what Scott fails to acknowledge, or simply is not aware of is that motorhomes make up a tiny minority of vehicles on his Island.
But due to their size they stand out. On my many crossings to the islands, from the 88 vehicles on board the ferry, there are normally only one or two motorhomes.
In winter normally we are the only motorhome on board.

Also it seems that some islanders who for years argued for road tariff equivalent ferry crossings, now complain about its fuller consequences.
You no what they say about having your cake and eating it. Well it seems that some have eaten all of the cake, and now wish to complain about some of the consequences.
When on any Island we buy our provisions locally, and will normally go for a meal or two. And we will spend one night in three in a campsite to replenish water, and empty our cassettes etc.
But we nearly always prefer wild camping, to campsites.

As for parking in front of someones home, I would not thank you for such a position., we always avoid such locations, not only because we are considerate, but because its just not our cup of tea.
But unless road markings or signage state otherwise, there is nothing illegal regarding parking a car or a motorhome in such a position.

There seems to be confusion regarding the 2003 land reform act (Scotland) which you refer to.
The act had nothing to do with motorhomes or other vehicles, other than to state what I have just stated, that they were not included within the act.
The act was enabled to facilitate freedom for people to pitch tents on private land. It did nothing to remove our rights to park legally were we are permitted too.
Within carparks were there is no signage preventing overnight parking.
Wild camping is not illegal, there are no laws in the UK banning it.
HGV drivers and others have such stop overs, are we going to ban them also.

Scott states he lives in a beautiful island, well Scott I am sure you do, and I and the vast majority of wild campers want it to remain that way, otherwise we would have no reason to return.

On arriving on any island we spend little or no time in the main town.
When we go to Arran we head north, then to its sparely populated west coast.
But we have spent over a thousand pounds on the Island in the past two years, mainly in Arran Outdoors, and Arran Aromatics.
We normally spend two nights wild camping then a night at the seal Shores campsite in Kildonan.
We then spend a further two nights wild camping before heading home.

Wild camping is part of what we do, and will remain so.
Some councils are starting to change their attitudes towards us, viewing us not as a problem, but as an opportunity to help local communities.
Fife council are to be applauded for their forward thinking measures in recent times.
They plan to add motorhome spaces and limited facilities at some of their carparks.
And their facilities at Lochore are a credit to their forward thinking.

The vast majority of wild campers are decent men and women in the winter of their lives.
We have worked hard contributing to our country for decades.
All we ask for is somewhere to park peacefully and preferably out of the way. And if facilities like chemical waste and water are provided I am more than happy to pay for them.
Is that too much to ask for, if so thats a poor reflection on this country of ours.

Finally Scott, you ask if the CCC are condoning wild camping.
Why not when its done properly.
Thousands of their members are wild campers using their motorhomes and tents.
I would be shocked that someone as you with a camper van has never done so.

I have spent some wonderful time in beautiful locations were there are no campsites,
And as far as I am aware I have never upset or annoyed anyone.
 

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