The camping and caravan clubs anti wild camping letter.

Maybe he's made a mistake quite a lot of folk do from time to time - not bothered reading all the posts leading up to the one they've jumped in and commented on, therefore getting the wrong end of the stick and/or seeing the post in isolation and therefore out of context?
 
Possibly the editor of the CCC and Scott Currie should read this from the article below relating to the Loch Lomond and Trossachs national park. I think I will email this to the CCC for their perusal.

“Anyone with any knowledge of road traffic law would have been aware that motorhomers and campervanners have every right to stop and spend the night in a lay-by on a public road, so it beggars belief that the national park authority was not aware of that and simply made up their own laws.”

www.heraldscotland.com

Carry On Camping Loch Lomond camping ban turns into a shambles

Loch Lomond national park has been accused of “absolute incompetence” after it admitted wrongly charging campervans for staying overnight in…
www.heraldscotland.com www.heraldscotland.com
 
Fisherman said:
Possibly the editor of the CCC and Scott Currie should read this from the article below relating to the Loch Lomond and Trossachs national park. I think I will email this to the CCC for their perusal.

“Anyone with any knowledge of road traffic law would have been aware that motorhomers and campervanners have every right to stop and spend the night in a lay-by on a public road, so it beggars belief that the national park authority was not aware of that and simply made up their own laws.”

www.heraldscotland.com

Carry On Camping Loch Lomond camping ban turns into a shambles

Loch Lomond national park has been accused of “absolute incompetence” after it admitted wrongly charging campervans for staying overnight in…
www.heraldscotland.com www.heraldscotland.com
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If you read to the bottom of the article it turns out the argument seems to be about 2 specific lay-bys on two old stretches of road by Loch Earn.

Interesting article all the same. (y)

PS. It's dated 2017, don't know if anything has changed with any bye laws or police powers since then?
 
mariesnowgoose said:
If you read to the bottom of the article it turns out the argument seems to be about 2 specific lay-bys on two old stretches of road by Loch Earn.

Interesting article all the same. (y)

PS. It's dated 2017, don't know if anything has changed with any bye laws or police powers since then?
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No nothing has changed as far as I know Marie.
This was set up because of people heading to the national park with tents.
They were damaging trees, leaving mess everywhere and damaging the environment. But they overstepped the mark on parking in carparks and lay-byes.
We go to a carpark in Strathyre were there are signs at the bottom of the carpark, but they are only for folk in tents pitching on the grass. Tents are still completely banned, but not Motorhomes or campers.
 
Fisherman said:
No nothing has changed as far as I know Marie.
This was set up because of people heading to the national park with tents.
They were damaging trees, leaving mess everywhere and damaging the environment. But they overstepped the mark on parking in carparks and lay-byes.
We go to a carpark in Strathyre were there are signs at the bottom of the carpark, but they are only for folk in tents pitching on the grass. Tents are still completely banned, but not Motorhomes or campers.
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Didn't that just push the problem into both Glen Orchy and Etive? I haven't visited for a couple of years so I'm unsure as to the situation.
 
sparrks said:
Didn't that just push the problem into both Glen Orchy and Etive? I haven't visited for a couple of years so I'm unsure as to the situation.
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Sorry I don’t know, but the problem was that the Trossachs were handy for the morons who travelled from the central belt, and started fires, set up barbecues, and damaged trees etc . And none of them had Motorhomes.
 
sparrks said:
Didn't that just push the problem into both Glen Orchy and Etive? I haven't visited for a couple of years so I'm unsure as to the situation.
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Yes a lot of the Buckfast Brigade now go a bit further north with their tents and Glens Orchy and Etive are now strewn with tennants cans and human shite.
 
caledonia said:
Yes a lot of the Buckfast Brigade now go a bit further north with their tents and Glens Orchy and Etive are now strewn with tennants cans and human shite.
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Went down Glen Orchy a couple of years ago intending to overnight on route to Applecross.
Didn’t stop as i can best describe it as an outside toilet. Shite etc everywhere, nearly put me off wildcamping for life.
 
vindiboy said:
HGVs have good sleeping facilities in them of course but they are intended for use in proper Lorry parks not in laybys, I have no problem with HGVS parking in Laybys and their drivers sleeping there but lets be clear HGV drivers get an allowance to pay for their overnight sleeps in the Lorry parks etc but choose not to as they can then keep the allowance to enhance their earnings which they deserve as they are not the best paid people with huge responsibilities, they also know when their driving time is nearing an end and should make sure of where they are going to stop over.. car delivery drivers with trade plates also get money for them to return to their base by train or other public transport but choose to hitch a lift to enhance their meagre earnings by keeping this allowance, too. I was involved in the Transport dept Planning at the Ford Plants for some years so I do know what I am talking about here ,
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Almost correct, but not quite. I drove artics for a Leeds based transport firm but I didn't get an allowance for overnight parking. I had to pay if I had to stop in a lorry park or motorway service station, and only got the money back when I handed over the receipt. The same applied to food bought but only up to a certain amount. There were also many occasions where I could not park in a nearby lorry park, or even a service station, because of lack of room. Also, where I was driving in an unknown part of the country, or a part that had NO overnight facilities (and there are quite a few of those) I would HAVE to park up in a laybye. When your driving hours are up you have to stop, and if there are no facilities to do so, then a laybye is the only alternative.
 
I totally agree. I used to drive a 7.5 tonne twin berth doing mostly European work but in the UK there are very few lorry parks and as most of my work was urgent I would drive for the full drive time before stopping. Yes I got £25 for nights out, but even then that wouldn't pay for a lorry park and a meal and it was restricted to that because HMRC said anything over that was taxable. I'm afraid most people have a very rosy view of a lorry drivers life on the road and yes there is a lot of freedom but driving for 9 or 10 hours in a 15 hour day and then climbing behind the seat to rest for 11 hours isn't always so nice.
 
Fisherman said:
Well I got my copy of the camping and caravan clubs magazine this morning, and the steam is still coming out of my ears. Do these people not realise that a large proportion of their members own campers and motorhomes, and most of them “wild camp”. Scott Currie claims to own a campervan, yet places tuggers and us in the same boat. Not what I would have expected from someone with knowledge of our chosen pastime. I have written to the club, Informing them that I am seriously considering leaving them, and I am serious. I know they have a bias even a dislike of us, I am not niave. But I wrongly assumed that both sides simply ignored this for each other’s betterment. But for me this totally biased letter has crossed a line. I am not stating that what Scott Currie reports does not happen, but his comments clearly infer that we are all alike. Also his patronising insulting comment that he hoped no members would do this just made matters worse.

Heres my reply, I doubt if they will publish it, they don’t want the dark side to be heard do they now. :)


I wish to complain about the letter you published in your June magazine, from Scott Currie regarding wild camping.
His comments were disgraceful and an insult to the vast majority of us who enjoy wild camping in locations were there are no campsites or other forms of accommodation. I have never dumped rubbish anywhere in my life, nor emptied a chemical toilet anywhere other than in the appropriate place. As for parking in front of anyone’s home, I simply would not be interested in doing so, and I think I speak for the vast majority of our community. This letter may cost you members, myself included. I am furious with you for publishing it, and so are many others.
I bought a Motorhome to enjoy the freedom it offers. I also have enjoyed campsites run by yourselves, the caravan and Motorhome club who I am also a member of, and many independent campsites.
I feel you owe myself and many others an apology for publishing this insulting, narrow minded, ill informed letter, written by someone who does not seem to know the difference between a Motorhome and a caravan.

If I don’t receive an apology I and many others on various forums will seriously consider leaving your organisation, and that would be a shame.

Times are changing many campsites now cater for more or as many Motorhomes than caravans, and like it or not most of these Motorhomers enjoy responsible and considerate wild camping, not Scott Curries version of wild camping.

I would be pleased if you published this letter, but somehow I don’t reckon you want the other side of the story to be told. As for recommending that we always stay in campsites, I think I know why you would recommend that, hence your obvious bias in printing such a letter in the first place.

Yours sincerely

And here’s the letter.

View attachment 81874
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Hi I have a Motorhome for some years now and have hit barrier after barrie, obviously this countr dose not like Motorhomes Or camper vans, every where you go height barriers, signs saying no overnight stopping, no camper vans. As you said the majority of us don’t leave rubbish or mess if anything we pick up other people’s rubbish, ie car drivers who throw it out there window.
parking in rows on hard stands doesn’t appeal to us, you might as well buy a caravan, we do use sites every few days for for there facilities, and if they are near somewhere we want to visit.
If towns catered for us like they do abroad we would not have to park in odd places. They want our money spent there to boost there economy, but don’t like us parking there.
That’s why we spend most of our time in Europe where we are welcomed and not shunned.
Happy travelling
 
Biggarmac said:
Rob Ganley is correct. He can only state the legal position. Wild camping in Scotland is defined as camping with a tent with no motorised transport involved. What we do is free camping or off grid camping. We should be mindful of the rights of local people in the places we visit. The CCC help us by allowing members to use some of their campsites to service our units, even when not staying there. www.campingandcaravanningclub/service-stop-off-points.
The Scottish Islands have for the last few years been invaded by motorhomers (and caravanners) who have no idea of the proper way to behave. The letter writer is from one of the islands, as are many of my relatives. They are all heartedly sick of thoughtless visitors who come with all their food and drink, buy nothing locally and leave mess. I know that many of us pick up the rubbish left by others, mainly car visitors. The letter writer is right to ask us to pay for facilities this year as many small businesses in the highlands and islands, as everywhere else, are having a hard time.
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Your link is not working Meg. Nor can I find any reference to ‘service-stop-off-points’. Any pointers please.
 
Gary Tucker said:
Hi I have a Motorhome for some years now and have hit barrier after barrie, obviously this countr dose not like Motorhomes Or camper vans, every where you go height barriers, signs saying no overnight stopping, no camper vans. As you said the majority of us don’t leave rubbish or mess if anything we pick up other people’s rubbish, ie car drivers who throw it out there window.
parking in rows on hard stands doesn’t appeal to us, you might as well buy a caravan, we do use sites every few days for for there facilities, and if they are near somewhere we want to visit.
If towns catered for us like they do abroad we would not have to park in odd places. They want our money spent there to boost there economy, but don’t like us parking there.
That’s why we spend most of our time in Europe where we are welcomed and not shunned.
Happy travelling
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I completely agree, but some on here reckon that we should simply accept being tolerated, keep our heads down, or even side with councils who put up barriers at the drop of a hat. The fact is we have all worked hard all of our lives and we deserve better. Yes there are a few who don’t behave properly, but they are a small minority, who need sorting out. We are easy targets, and when one of our largest camping organisations the caravan and camping club print such an insulting, ill informed, inaccurate pile of crap about us, backed up by the editor who tells us what we are doing is illegal, and we should only use campsites, enough is enough.

Parking in a parking place overnight is not illegal unless proper signage is erected stating otherwise anywhere in the uk, and we are not braking any laws. There is no law stopping wild camping, but the way things are going in towns it’s in effect heading that way.

The more barriers that are erected, and the more signage put up then the less places that are available combined with an increase in vans can only lead to problems. But these problems are not our making, but the product of narrow minded people with distorted opinions about us, and seemingly being backed up by an organisation that many of us are members of and paying good money to, and that is simply not on.

The more letters they receive the better.

Mailbag@campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk
 
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One thing no-one seems to have mentioned, and the reason I often park up rather than use a campsite - in winter there are very few campsites open, particularly in touristy areas where everything is shut from October through to Easter every year. I have often gone to Cornwall in winter as I have relatives there and it's the best time to visit, couldn't find any campsites open. The nearest C&CC site open in winter is in the middle of Devon.
 
We
Caz said:
One thing no-one seems to have mentioned, and the reason I often park up rather than use a campsite - in winter there are very few campsites open, particularly in touristy areas where everything is shut from October through to Easter every year. I have often gone to Cornwall in winter as I have relatives there and it's the best time to visit, couldn't find any campsites open. The nearest C&CC site open in winter is in the middle of Devon.
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Caz good point, I have mentioned this on here myself in the past.
 
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