The camping and caravan clubs anti wild camping letter.

Fisherman said:
Not just putting in the bridge, but removing the tariffs.
But I applaud the snp for doing this.
But it has helped fuel the situation.
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Put the tolls back and make them all pay again, they would soon appreciate that we all paid for it in out taxes in the first place.
 
GWAYGWAY said:
Put the tolls back and make them all pay again, they would soon appreciate that we all paid for it in out taxes in the first place.
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The snp will never do anything that can be seen as remotely detrimental to island communities. I suggested free tariffs for islanders and a £5 tariff each way for tourists. The money collected being used to improve facilities for ALL who visit the island. But that will never happen.
I am no supporter of the snp, but I do support their support for island communities with the removal of bridge tolls, and the road tariff equivalent Ferry fares.
 
barge1914 said:
The other point that might have been good to have brought up is that a fair number of Continental campsites have cottoned on the the numbers of motorhomes and converted a portion of their site area to being a lower cost basic serviced overnight stay facility for motorhomes, perhaps to attract back custom lost to Aires.
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In areas of France we visit frequently we have noticed this but only on a small proportion of sites and only off peak. It is a bit of a mystery that more sites do not offer this motorhome concession but we are quite happy to use ACSI sites for €12 or €14 if the location is convenient. At least it means we can get the tables and chairs out and use hook up. During late July and August full tariffs would apply regardless.

Now that would be the equivalent of £10 or £12 in the UK. If the two big clubs offered that rate for off peak motor homing with that rate limited to stays of 3 nights maximum then their more remote sites would be busier and motorhome sales in the UK really would take off!

Maybe the motorhome manufacturers should start lobbying the clubs?
 
I have been involved in negotiating with councils in N. Ireland with motorhomecraic.com for the provision of parking and possibly aires. (This was asked about in the Dornoch thread before closure).

I find the attitude of site owners to be very tunnel vision, ie use our site or nothing, including lobbying councils to ban parking.

What I cannot understand is that for a very small outlay, a limited area at or near their site gates could earn them £10 per night times the number of spaces with the potential to still have income when the main site closes at the end of summer. Aire type provision only all year round. No staff costs and low maintainence, but greed for full site fee and laziness seem to be more important.

I often think of the church halls and community and sports clubs around the country who could boost their income in a similar way. Beneficial for both sides. A few bays marked in their car parks, £10 per night and free night watchmen to keep an eye on their buildings.

I keep telling my local council and MP that barriers do not solve the problem, it needs creative solutions, because we are a growing industry. Like the i. R. A. “We haven’t gone away you know”.

Davy
 
Fisherman said:
Germany is densely populated, but Europe’s largest country France is more sparsely populated Sam
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My impression is that most Germans don't holiday in their own country, with its very sparse and chilly coast line, but venture over the border.
 
TeamRienza said:
I have been involved in negotiating with councils in N. Ireland with motorhomecraic.com for the provision of parking and possibly aires. (This was asked about in the Dornoch thread before closure).

I find the attitude of site owners to be very tunnel vision, ie use our site or nothing, including lobbying councils to ban parking.

What I cannot understand is that for a very small outlay, a limited area at or near their site gates could earn them £10 per night times the number of spaces with the potential to still have income when the main site closes at the end of summer. Aire type provision only all year round. No staff costs and low maintainence, but greed for full site fee and laziness seem to be more important.

I often think of the church halls and community and sports clubs around the country who could boost their income in a similar way. Beneficial for both sides. A few bays marked in their car parks, £10 per night and free night watchmen to keep an eye on their buildings.

I keep telling my local council and MP that barriers do not solve the problem, it needs creative solutions, because we are a growing industry. Like the i. R. A. “We haven’t gone away you know”.

Davy
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Yep im a cracker to,think Newcastle has started to see the light,Donard park would and should be able to do the job as close to town,5 or so spaces could have been set up at top of town beside the big hotel rather than wanting to set up hight barriers.
Are coast is and should be able to fix night stays the whole way round,simple way is buy a year sub or if coming into out space from oversea buy a £20 ticket to last 2 weeks etc,councils and the folk on the hill to biz in fighting to take notice of revenue to be had which would bring folks here for a good holiday. :)
 
Wonder if there is a difference in the way MH's are registered as to why the Germans have much greater MH use per capita?

Not saying they don't, but by more than double, that I'm not so sure of.
 
mark61 said:
Wonder if there is a difference in the way MH's are registered as to why the Germans have much greater MH use per capita?

Not saying they don't, but by more than double, that I'm not so sure of.
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I think that in the Europe Motorhomes have always outnumbered caravans. And that’s why their culture and their attitudes towards Motorhomes is totally different from ours, where until recently caravans greatly outnumbered Motorhomes.
 
The industry in the uk needs to take a look at New Zealand when it comes to tourism.
Same size as the uk with a lot less people, most towns have free aires with free water and free waste disposal.
The motorhomes are registered as self contained and get a annual test if my memory is correct by the motorcaravanners association.
Well I say free, yes its free to motorhomes though costs are recouped by the council through the rates.......and yes business is booming.
along with this there are campsites ( bugger me you have to pay a little ) with every facility you can think of.
Booking a site in some parts of the uk for two people through camc is upwards of £60 a night.....but dont forget the electric and a few quid for a shower....
£60 plus a night for a bit of dirt.......sod that
Anyway due to the high campsite costs people take everything they can with them and the locals miss out on an income... as in the Scottish isles.
 
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In a car park opposite the police station in Chippenham Wiltshire there used to be marked parking bays for motorhomes. Never managed to park in one as they were always occupied by lorries. I wonder if they are still there?
 
barge1914 said:
Mailbag@campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk





I refer to the letter you published in the CC&C June magazine, from Scott Currie regarding wild camping, and your editorial comments. I was considering re-joining the C&CC this year now that it is inevitable I must spend more time in the UK. Your response does little to encourage me. My reply follows below…


Dear Sirs

Mr Currie complains that the CCC seems to condone overnight off site parking in a motorhome, which he incorrectly asserts is illegal by reference to the land reform act, which is relevant only to private land. Apart from a few locations with specific bylaws, PSPOs, or TROs enacted under an act of parliament there is no law in the UK against sleeping in a vehicle on or adjacent a public highway, or in a public car-park where it is not legally prohibited.

He cites with apparent prejudice the actions of a thoughtless minority to condemn the activities of a substantial majority, many retired, who act both legally and appropriately and often belong to Motorhome Clubs who encourage responsible behaviour. Our ethos is to be discrete, put nothing outside, leave nothing but appreciation, take nothing but photos and memories, and if possible spend locally.

I can say emphatically I have never discharged black waste inappropriately, left rubbish, invaded private land, or stayed close to or obstructed residential property, and would have strong words for those who do. Indeed, in common with many of my fellow motorhomers, I frequently pick up the rubbish left by car occupants in locations where I stay, and leave such facilities as I use in a far cleaner state than they were when I arrived. And where small communities provide and maintain facilities I am more than happy to make a donation.

Having said that I can understand the gentleman’s concerns, albeit I believe he is myopically aiming at the wrong target, completely missing what is a much wider issue, the lack of joined up policy in the UK.

Self-contained motorhomes do not need acres of expensive campsite, sanitary and shower facilities, reception, grounds or maintenance staff, hence many avoid them. Parking space and access to a tap and drain every few days are quite sufficient. It is welcome that the C&CC provide paid service point access at a few of their sites, but this falls way short of the true need.

Motorhomes travel all year round, yet campsites are mostly closed in winter. In summer they are booked up months ahead. Campsites are located and developed around the long stay needs of tent campers and caravans, who can rely on their cars for local exploration and transport. For me and many others the essence of motorhoming is unscheduled exploration of quiet remote places, hopping from place to place making short stays, and exploring on foot, bike or public transport places of interest at the destinations or in between.

Over the last two decades sales of motorhomes have increased many-fold. Local Authorities, caravan and motorhome Clubs and private interests throughout continental Europe (and even New Zealand, Australia, America and Canada) have responded by welcoming motorhomes and providing many tens of thousands of dedicated parking places some with pay-for service points, both in towns, villages and rural areas, with some countries even providing stand alone service points to support wild campers.

The UK has instead responded with ill informed letters of complaint, bans, prohibition signs (many illegal), height barriers and so on. Hotel and campsite owners agitate in local councils, councils try to move the problem down the road. The two main caravan and camping clubs whilst welcoming subscriptions from motorhome members, doggedly resist providing or supporting the case for basic sites and facilities in locations suitable for motorhomes.

Meanwhile Tourism Scotland launches an initiative to establish a whole series of immensely successful tourist routes in remote undeveloped rural areas with insufficient campsites or facilities; these draw motorhomes from all over the UK and Europe, and support a burgeoning motorhome rental industry. Europeans expect to turn up and find facilities like at home which require no booking ahead; in the absence of guidance from rental agencies hirers haven’t a clue how to behave; all resulting in outcomes such as Mr Currie witnesses. One part of Local Government is encouraging visitors, the other seeking ways to make them go away.

Mr Currie’s problem is only going to get worse. With ******, and more so with Coronavirus, travel restrictions are bound to oblige thousands of motorhomers, like myself, who flood across the channel every year to more welcoming countries, to stay and navigate the hostile environment at home. Full campsites and closed public toilets are not going to help.

I would most happily support Mr Currie if he wrote letters to persuade his own Local Authority to adopt the positive and enlightened approach to motorhomes being pursued by such as the Harris Trust and Fife Council, and by cities such as Canterbury. Sadly there are so very few of them.


Yours Faithfully
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First rate letter
 
TeamRienza said:
I have been involved in negotiating with councils in N. Ireland with motorhomecraic.com for the provision of parking and possibly aires. (This was asked about in the Dornoch thread before closure).

I find the attitude of site owners to be very tunnel vision, ie use our site or nothing, including lobbying councils to ban parking.

What I cannot understand is that for a very small outlay, a limited area at or near their site gates could earn them £10 per night times the number of spaces with the potential to still have income when the main site closes at the end of summer. Aire type provision only all year round. No staff costs and low maintainence, but greed for full site fee and laziness seem to be more important.

I often think of the church halls and community and sports clubs around the country who could boost their income in a similar way. Beneficial for both sides. A few bays marked in their car parks, £10 per night and free night watchmen to keep an eye on their buildings.

I keep telling my local council and MP that barriers do not solve the problem, it needs creative solutions, because we are a growing industry. Like the i. R. A. “We haven’t gone away you know”.

Davy
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Hi Davy.

I remember your work. Can you remember which NI council it was who asked us to complete a questionaire which they intended to use for a report into motorhoming? Do you know if the council prepared a report; did you see one?

If you know if that report was ever published I'd love to see it – but what council was it? Carrickfergus? I've no problem with asking the council what happened to it – maybe after Covid-19 has abated a bit.

Tom
 
Hi Tom,
It was Ards and north Down council. I did not see the finished report, but it must have been very positive as the council began looking at locations with in its council area with a view to providing nine parking locations with about three of them having service points which would have been excellent provision for the size of the council area. It would have been pivotal in the exercise to obtain parking in the whole of N.ireland. I did visits to all of the locations and made recommendations on numbers, how to least impact on the size of the car parks, with regard to houses with views, and of course signage and proper use.
The one existing Aire in Donaghadee was being abused, simply through over use, hardly surprising since it was the only one in the area although other car parks in villages were available, but they were not marked as aires nor had facilities.
One of the local caravan site owners took the council to court claiming that overnight parking or provision of such was not the responsibility of councils and any other reason you could think of wether semi legitimate or not. He took lots of freedom of information actions against the council and by implication the officer who was developing the project. He was even demanding my identity.
No clear out come emerged but the plans stalled whilst we await an update of the caravan site regulations which bear no relation to the issue of aires.
You may be aware that we were without an assembly for three years so everything stalled. For instance the use of electric bikes in N. Ireland remained illegal until a week or so back when the legislation was rushed through to help with the current C19 situation.
I also ceased communication with the council officer in charge as I felt he was probably getting enough grief and I did not want to compromise his position any further.
The Assembly reconvened just before the emergency commenced so things are still in suspension. The council was still hoping to progress the scheme at the last communication which I had.
Meanwhile my own local council has provided 5 marked bays in the town of Newcastle (Co. Down) a seaside resort town after negotiation and just before lockdown I was in contact with the council regarding further bays in another car park earmarked for expansion. Other councils are gradually opening their eyes to the need and potential benefit of parking. The Republic of Ireland is also beginning to see the potential for public or private provision. The model of Cobh in Co Cork being the role model.
I provide a link to a thread on motorhomecraic which tracks the freedom of information requests ‘Mr. Smith’ pursued the council over in the run up to the court hearing. We did offer to brief the council legal team and attend as expert witnesses but the offer was not taken up.
I would hope when all is back to some sort of normality to reopen the lobbying of that and other councils, although as I am sure you are aware, for such a large and vocal community few of us are prepared to do something about it and I have a limit to what I can achieve in the time and money I can afford to put against the effort. Note Ally is the owner of the craic forum. The first link is a synopsis of what I believe the council are hoping to provide. The second the FOI thread.

www.motorhomecraic.com

Aire provision in N. Down Ards

I received an email today from N. Down Ards council which follows on from my involvement in the council area tourist development plan and the subsequent survey that many of you completed. The council is now actively looking at the provision of Aires at Luke’s point, Ballywalter amenity centre...
www.motorhomecraic.com www.motorhomecraic.com

www.motorhomecraic.com

Freedom of information

Ards and North Down Council FOI request (not by us) https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/prohibition_of_motorhomes_campin
www.motorhomecraic.com www.motorhomecraic.com

Lots of other threads on Donaghadee if you search.

Pm me if you want to talk about it

Davy
 
Problem with the camper parking bays in newcastle is cars,they just park up in the bays and bu--er of for the day,maybe next time i shall park across the front of them.
 
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