Brilliant Martin, bloody brilliantThe problem with wildcamping is we come under attack from the following types of people.
Nosy " what are they doing there" types.
"I cant wait to report someone types:
I hate it when someone else gets something for nothing types.
Theyve got something I havent types
Im too thick to function without rules so everyone has to follow whatever rules I imagine I have to . Types
Someone is out of place they must be up to no good types.
Im not having that types
I havent got the balls to make a decision so "I think we better say no " types
Ive got a secret agenda but Im not going to admit it types.
Im a young buck and pissing off motorhomers is a good laugh types.
If I remember correctly the encampment refers to five or more vans and Priti is trying to reduce this to two, but hasn't yet succeeded.There is a legal difference between parking and camping.
Our local authority has a bylaw relating to unauthorised encampments on public land which permits them to take action if a report is made. No doubt many, if not all, local authorities in England and Wales have similar bylaws. You can park on a public highway bylaws permitting but if you then undertake any act within your vehicle that is considered to be an act of camping then effectively you are an encampment and subject to local bylaws. If reported authorities have powers to act, even when camping on a highway.
I agree horses for courses, having had both and in the case of s motorhome living full time for four and a half years the occasional skirmish with authority it’s a complicated situationA very good and well thought out letter.
I would like to add this to the debate.
Campsites suit caravans. You go there for a period of your time and use your car to orbit around and explore the area. Motor homes are more suited to a more "linear"approach.
We drive to a spot, stay a night and move on.
Campsites are usually remote. Thats fine with a car unhitched from a caravan but my wife is 10 years past a bicycle. Largely we like to visit an area urban or otherwise, spend some time( and money) , tuck ourselves away for the night and then move on. We have been members of the clubs in order to visit 1 night in 4 to fill and empty which is ok.
A motorhome is made to be self sufficient and expecting them to only park in campsites is like expecting an aeroplane to limit itself to taxying along a runway.
Motorhomes just dont need campsites only emptying and filling facilities and I doubt if anyone on here has a problem with paying a reasonable charge to do so
Trying to force motorhomes into sites is small minded and mean spirited .
Good luck with your letter Fisherman, you always put forward a well reasoned argument and you make a good spokesperson.
Unfortunately I think these things always run into what I consider the worst of all the types. The one who sighs and says"I think we better say no "
Long live wildcamping, its the rebel in us you know
My understanding Andrew is if a car can park somewhere 24/7 and there is no signage indicating otherwise then so can we. I really don’t understand what all of the confusion is, and were it’s coming from. According to the dvla my vehicle and a car are the same a PLG. I don’t know about Motorhomes above 3.5T.I stand to be corrected here, but reasonably confident nowhere in the Highway Code nor the road traffic act does it mention any of us havevthe right to park on a public highway..lay-bys we see are an implication no more than that and as mentioned if subject to a rule can be illegal...nothing in writing anywhere.
This is not quite correct.HGVs have good sleeping facilities in them of course but they are intended for use in proper Lorry parks not in laybys, I have no problem with HGVS parking in Laybys and their drivers sleeping there but lets be clear HGV drivers get an allowance to pay for their overnight sleeps in the Lorry parks etc but choose not to as they can then keep the allowance to enhance their earnings which they deserve as they are not the best paid people with huge responsibilities, they also know when their driving time is nearing an end and should make sure of where they are going to stop over.. car delivery drivers with trade plates also get money for them to return to their base by train or other public transport but choose to hitch a lift to enhance their meagre earnings by keeping this allowance, too. I was involved in the Transport dept Planning at the Ford Plants for some years so I do know what I am talking about here ,
You are quite right the land reform act often called the freedom to roam act as far as I can tell doesn’t influence our ability to wildcamp other than motorised vehicles are exempt from its scopeMy understanding Andrew is if a car can park somewhere 24/7 and there is no signage indicating otherwise then so can we. I really don’t understand what all of the confusion is, and were it’s coming from. According to the dvla my vehicle and a car are the same a PLG. I don’t know about Motorhomes above 3.5T.
But I would assume that they would be the same.
The waters have been muddied up here with the land reform act and some quoting its qualifications on motorised vehicles. Some use this as a vehicle for their bias against us, either in ignorance, or simply out of badness.
The land reform act has nothing to do with us, it changed nothing up here for us or for those who drive to such locations in cars.
Those pitching tents don’t tend to pitch were parking is permitted they sometimes do it in locations were there are no roads or access for motorised vehicles. Note the act makes no specific mention of us, simply motorised vehicles.
sorry but we left be-cause of the at-itude.of the then caravan ciub. oh and we want be going back. its at the top that needs a good kicking. attitude. and they loveWell I got my copy of the camping and caravan clubs magazine this morning, and the steam is still coming out of my ears. Do these people not realise that a large proportion of their members own campers and motorhomes, and most of them “wild camp”. Scott Currie claims to own a campervan, yet places tuggers and us in the same boat. Not what I would have expected from someone with knowledge of our chosen pastime. I have written to the club, Informing them that I am seriously considering leaving them, and I am serious. I know they have a bias even a dislike of us, I am not niave. But I wrongly assumed that both sides simply ignored this for each other’s betterment. But for me this totally biased letter has crossed a line. I am not stating that what Scott Currie reports does not happen, but his comments clearly infer that we are all alike. Also his patronising insulting comment that he hoped no members would do this just made matters worse.
Heres my reply, I doubt if they will publish it, they don’t want the dark side to be heard do they now.
I wish to complain about the letter you published in your June magazine, from Scott Currie regarding wild camping.
His comments were disgraceful and an insult to the vast majority of us who enjoy wild camping in locations were there are no campsites or other forms of accommodation. I have never dumped rubbish anywhere in my life, nor emptied a chemical toilet anywhere other than in the appropriate place. As for parking in front of anyone’s home, I simply would not be interested in doing so, and I think I speak for the vast majority of our community. This letter may cost you members, myself included. I am furious with you for publishing it, and so are many others.
I bought a Motorhome to enjoy the freedom it offers. I also have enjoyed campsites run by yourselves, the caravan and Motorhome club who I am also a member of, and many independent campsites.
I feel you owe myself and many others an apology for publishing this insulting, narrow minded, ill informed letter, written by someone who does not seem to know the difference between a Motorhome and a caravan.
If I don’t receive an apology I and many others on various forums will seriously consider leaving your organisation, and that would be a shame.
Times are changing many campsites now cater for more or as many Motorhomes than caravans, and like it or not most of these Motorhomers enjoy responsible and considerate wild camping, not Scott Curries version of wild camping.
I would be pleased if you published this letter, but somehow I don’t reckon you want the other side of the story to be told. As for recommending that we always stay in campsites, I think I know why you would recommend that, hence your obvious bias in printing such a letter in the first place.
And here’s the letter.
View attachment 81874
sorry you to have a problem, get living and you will see why, ok.pj had a caravan be ,ok pj. dont a gree, you can please your selfI dont think the majority of people with motorhomes/campervans go off grid. From what I see and read its a small minority who do this. The majority of folks with motorhomes use them exactly the same as caravans, load up and drive to a site. Why they ever bought a motorhome I have no idea as they would be much better off with a car and caravan.
If the Scottish law is saying motorised vehicles does that mean you could drop off a caravan and legally stay?
The big two clubs are against anything that means you aren't staying on their sites and always have been so I dont know why anyone would be surprised. I am a member of both in spite of this as I do make use of them when needs must. The biggest enemy for motorhomes and camper vans is other motorhome and campervan owners, its nearly always them that post up about indiscretions
We all learn every day moped, but in order to learn you have to be prepared to listen. And quoting Churchill, anyone who has never changed their minds, has never changed anything.The Camping and Caravan Club do offer a motorhome service stop for £7 at a number of their sites so they clearly do recognise that those with motorhomes do not always park overnight on a campsite. Their response to the letter overlooked this.
As for the Scottish Land Act right to roam thing excluding motorised vehicles, this surely has to imply those with 4x4 type vehicles. It is very unlikely that a motorhome would be able to roam across the Scottish highlands at will once off the public highway.
And talking of public highway, the world ”public“ seems to have been overlooked by the CCC and the letter writer.
When on the public highway the Scottish Land Act has no legal status as it is not privately owned land. And the public highway does include verges up to and including any fencing should any be present.
The motorhome parked up in the magazine photo is clearly parked on a verge on the public highway and so Is doing no wrong. Both the letter writer and the club response have lost sight of this and in so doing have muddied the waters for the clubs motorhome members.
Maybe the CCC responder should review the response and reconsider the position which may not have been made with all the available facts.
The good news is, after following this topic, I have learnt a lot and am now much happier parking up in Scotland as long as I stay on the public highway and associated verge.
Motorhomes I would say the majority I have spoken have done some wild camping Sam. But this guy claims to own a camper van, I reckon the vast majority of them wild camp. Bottom line if the CCC have say 100,000 Motorhome users, they just slapped around 50-60,000 of their members in the face. Hardly good business practice.Many people seem to think that every motorhome must have overnighted away from a site, but I think there are many who have just changed over from a tow van for convenience with no intention of doing anything other than they did before. I have friends who own motorhomes that wouldn't dream of sleeping off grid. If you ever stop on a club site and get talking to your fellow motorhome members to mention wilding can bring up their blood pressure at the thought of mad axemen roaming around at night and shotgun carrying landowners taking pot shots.