NO MORE OVERNIGHT STAYS IN SCARBOROUGH

[Fisherman]

On Arran a number of years ago we watched a young couple trying to eat their meal in a car park in Marganaheglish. We offered them our table and chairs, and they used them and said thanks. Once they were finished we put them back inside the van. They then asked us why we didn’t use them, when we explained it’s frowned upon, they were surprised to say the least. But if we had the only rule we would have broken, would have been our self imposed rule.

 

[alcam]

Motorhomes are permitted to park in designated spaces in my town, next to a grassy area facing the beach. It's a nice spot. If we didn't live here, we would go there.

The car park is shared with car users. In the summer, plenty of them put out chairs and so on, next to their cars. A motorhomer can't do that. Motorhomers can, for example, put their chairs out on the beach, but there isn't a prescribed distance where sitting is or isn't allowed. It's a daft rule.

So if the motorhomer and the car user swapped sitting spaces, so the motorhomer put their chair next to the car; and the car user put their chair next to the motorhome, it seems nobody is doing anything wrong.

Let's make it even sillier. Let's say the motorhomer uses the car owner's chair beside their van. And the car owner uses the motorhomer's chair next to their car. What if the chairs were the same design? What a calamity! The motorhoming police would be having nightmares, not just about enforcing it, but how to source all the red tape they need.

To get back to being sensible, I'm with @mariesnowgoose . The real problem is people who leave a mess or damage - it's got nothing to do with the vehicle they are in. And it's frustrating that local authorities, and some members of the public, can't or won't see that.

You can be my solicitor
Charge; Abuse of the use of deck chairs

 

[alcam]

Perthaps you should go look at the meaning of anti social behaviour! Maybe take a look at this? The second two points in the "What is" section. Both can apply to our community.

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/asb/asb/antisocial-behaviour/what-is-antisocial-behaviour/#:~:text=Antisocial%20behaviour%20is%20defined%20as,and%20Social%20Responsibility%20Act%202011%20).

Can apply but generally don't

 

[mariesnowgoose]

But it’s not just about mess or damage. There’s a bigger picture.

I really don’t understand why some are so willing to support rule breaking and enable the bans.

Because they do. What is it that you don't seem to understand about human nature? People grumble "nanny state" about all sorts of stuff, but I'm all for laying down some simple rules that will work fairly. Emphasis on the word "fairly". Where folk start to take the p*ss then it's a perfect opportunity for councils etc. to step up and fine the *rse off the offenders. Money in the coffers and would also act as big deterrent without removing (in my view the most important issue) access to the facilities from innocent non-offenders. Don't just go for a blanket parking ban or the installation of height barriers.

BUT - there is very little in the way of joined up or lateral thinking. Councils are - at least in my experience - wieldy institutions, deathly slow to change, who, to be fair, often have their hands tied every which way by government rules and regulations.

It's the same with the increasingly massive and disgusting littering/rubbish problem right across society (nothing to do with motorhomes). That has grown exponentially over the decades. Put some money into hiring enough people who can actively issue and enforce fines for offenders and you have both a) a bl**dy good - and currently very necessary - income stream from the word go and b) a meaningful deterrent against future offending. Scale up or down as necessary. It's not rocket science.

 

[Rumour]

Can apply but generally don't

Of course it applies to anyone that is doing what they shouldn't! We have no right to cheap holidays because we spend thousands on a mobile home! Sections two and three fit perfectly vans staying where they shouldn't or using parking as a camp site.

 

[Rolyan57]

I think my reply illustrates I don't support rule breaking where the rule is global. What I object to is that a different rule would apply to me if I were driving a different vehicle.

But that’s an oversimplification.

They have allowed vans to stay overnight, and introduced rules in and around that.

I’ve never parked during the day and experienced different rules for the daytime car stop. This is about the provision of overnight stops for Motorhome’s and nothing else.

 

[Rolyan57]

Because they do. What is it that you don't seem to understand about human nature? People grumble "nanny state" about all sorts of stuff, but I'm all for laying down some simple rules that will work fairly. Emphasis on the word "fairly". Where folk start to take the p*ss then it's a perfect opportunity for councils etc. to step up and fine the *rse off the offenders. Money in the coffers and would also act as big deterrent without removing (in my view the most important issue) access to the facilities from innocent non-offenders. Don't just go for a blanket parking ban or the installation of height barriers.

BUT - there is very little in the way of joined up or lateral thinking. Councils are - at least in my experience - wieldy institutions, deathly slow to change, who, to be fair, often have their hands tied every which way by government rules and regulations.

It's the same with the increasingly massive and disgusting littering/rubbish problem right across society (nothing to do with motorhomes). That has grown exponentially over the decades. Put some money into hiring enough people who can actively issue and enforce fines for offenders and you have both a) a bl**dy good - and currently very necessary - income stream from the word go and b) a meaningful deterrent against future offending. Scale up or down as necessary. It's not rocket science.

You’re right, it’s not rocket science. Those breaking the rules have massively contributed to this ban. It is partly their fault. The rule breakers are to blame.

So I still don’t understand why motorhomers are supporting and condoning these rule breakers, especially when they also moan about the ban. One has led to the other and it’s a shame we don’t collectively condemn it. In here and elsewhere.

Nothing you say about understanding human nature explains why motorhomers on here aren’t condemning those who are breaking the rules and losing us stopovers.

 

[Jo001]

But that’s an oversimplification.

I don't think it is. You said -

putting furniture out and taking up spaces is also worthy of complaint.

Anyone that leaves furniture out overnight (whatever their vehicle) shouldn't be surprised if it's gone in the morning. The fact is that we do have different rules arbitrarily applied to us, for no reason other than the fact we drive a different vehicle. And that is blatantly unfair.

 

[Rumour]

I don't think it is. You said -

Anyone that leaves furniture out overnight (whatever their vehicle) shouldn't be surprised if it's gone in the morning. The fact is that we do have different rules arbitrarily applied to us, for no reason other than the fact we drive a different vehicle. And that is blatantly unfair.

We are talking about overnight parking. That is different to daytime parking in that it has been allowed that we can sleep, cook and laze about in our vans. I believe Roylands comment about furniture was daytime. No one has so far suggested that anyone leaves furniture out overnight.

 

[Fisherman]

This thread is like a wee dug chasing its tail and going round and in circles.
Eventually it collapses with exhaustion, puts oot its table and chairs, sets up the barbie,
and gets oot the beers.
Only tae be telt yer brakin the rools, whit rools says the dug, Im a dug A canny read the rules.

 

[barryd]

I'm not sure I would want to sit outside in Scarborough this summer anyway. I've been away three months (not wilding) and I've not sat outside my van once. Hardly been tropical has it? Im not a massive fan of sitting outside all night anyway. In the south of France maybe.

 

[Jo001]

We are talking about overnight parking. That is different to daytime parking in that it has been allowed that we can sleep, cook and laze about in our vans. I believe Roylands comment about furniture was daytime. No one has so far suggested that anyone leaves furniture out overnight.

Okay, but my point remains. The problem is with irresponsible behaviour, regardless of the vehicle the perpetrators use.

 

[Rolyan57]

I don't think it is. You said -

Anyone that leaves furniture out overnight (whatever their vehicle) shouldn't be surprised if it's gone in the morning. The fact is that we do have different rules arbitrarily applied to us, for no reason other than the fact we drive a different vehicle. And that is blatantly unfair.

No one’s talking about overnight. I’ve driven on Scarborough front (and other stopovers) and seen motorhomers with furniture out during the day, taking up spaces that other vehicles could use.

It’s inconsiderate, entitled and is directly contributing to us losing these stopovers.

 

[alcam]

Of course it applies to anyone that is doing what they shouldn't! We have no right to cheap holidays because we spend thousands on a mobile home! Sections two and three fit perfectly vans staying where they shouldn't or using parking as a camp site.

Well you've stated that very assertively , makes me think you must be right . Though not sure why you posted this as an answer to my post

 

[Rolyan57]

Okay, but my point remains. The problem is with irresponsible behaviour, regardless of the vehicle the perpetrators use.

Correct, and many would say that motorhomers deliberately and knowingly breaking the rules is irresponsible.

Bearing in mind this rule breaking has directly contributed to us losing this stopover, I’m surprised you don’t condemn it, regardless of rules that may or may not be applied to daytime car parking.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

You’re right, it’s not rocket science. Those breaking the rules have massively contributed to this ban. It is partly their fault. The rule breakers are to blame.

So I still don’t understand why motorhomers are supporting and condoning these rule breakers, especially when they also moan about the ban. One has led to the other and it’s a shame we don’t collectively condemn it. In here and elsewhere.

Nothing you say about understanding human nature explains why motorhomers on here aren’t condemning those who are breaking the rules and losing us stopovers.

What makes you think that we don't condemn it?! Of course we blummin' do!

And what exactly do you expect "us" to do about it? Set ourselves up as main educators for the ignorant in all of society?

WC is not that sort of forum, we're non-political. It's a social site. You want motorhome campaigning go take a look at what CAMpRA Uk are achieving instead - and they are doing a grand job so far in a very complicated world.

I would say that 99.9% of the people I know from this site, going back the many years it has existed, would never behave in the anti-social way that some motorhome/campervan users would appear to be doing so now and specifically in the way that you are grumbling about right here.

I note that you've been a member since 2019, but have never posted until very recently, and only on this thread specifically.

Is Scarborough a particularly personal issue for you, hence why you are feeling particularly disgruntled just now about what has gone on in that area?

All we can continue to do is be responsible for our own individual behaviours. As a group we don't have any kind of authority to be able police the actions of the rest of the world - and why on earth would any of us want to take on that (unpaid) responsibility?!

 

[alcam]

What on makes you think that we don't condemn it?! Of course we blummin' do!

And what exactly do you expect "us" to do about it? Set ourselves up as main educators for the ignorant in all of society?

WC is not that sort of forum, we're non-political. It's a social site. You want motorhome campaigning go take a look at what CAMpRA Uk are achieving instead - and they are doing a grand job so far in a very complicated world.

I would say that 99.9% of the people I know from this site, going back the many years it has existed, would never behave in the anti-social way that some motorhome/campervan users would appear to be doing so now and specifically in the way that you are grumbling about right here.

I note that you've been a member since 2019, but have never posted until very recently, and only on this thread specifically.

Is Scarborough a particularly personal issue for you, hence why you are feeling particularly disgruntled just now about what has gone on in that area?

All we can continue to do is be responsible for our individual behaviours. As a group we don't have any kind of authority to be able police the actions of the rest of the world - and why on earth would any of us want to take on that (unpaid) responsibility?!

Well put

 

[Jo001]

No one’s talking about overnight.

So why did you bring up putting out tables and chairs?

Many will feel that putting furniture out and taking up spaces is also worthy of complaint

That's what prompted me to reply after all.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Of course it applies to anyone that is doing what they shouldn't! We have no right to cheap holidays because we spend thousands on a mobile home! Sections two and three fit perfectly vans staying where they shouldn't or using parking as a camp site.

What the.... ?!

Please can you reassure me that was a tongue in cheek/joke comment ...?

 

[Robmac]

What the.... ?!

Please can you reassure me that was a tongue in cheek/joke comment ...?

I hope it was Marie otherwise I'll have to be parking me van outside a B&B or Hotel.