Drink driving in Scotland

[Fisherman]

Never mind the English and Scottish laws on alcohol, all this talk of guns and crossbows - has the forum been infiltrated by damn Yankees for all this time?! Eek!

I am just trying to visualise you with a crossbow Marie.
Scary stuff, very scary stuff.

 

[marchie]

I am just trying to visualise you with a crossbow Marie.
Scary stuff, very scary stuff.

I'm not one to Tell,
But when Marie's got her crossbow, William,
I'd run like hell ...

I, on the other hand, have often shot my bolt earlier than anticipated, and sometimes on the other hand ...

Steve

 

[barryd]

Barry you are going off on a tangent here.
My argument has got nothing to do with these figures, it’s the fact that you argue that drink driving in Scotland should only result in a Scottish ban if you were below the English limit which does not apply in Scotland. Sadly it’s that kind of attitude towards us that leads half of Scotland wanting to be independent, something I am totally against.

But it’s a fact that lower limits in Scotland have lowered accidents involving drink driving by between 64 and 66%. The fact that non drink related accidents have increased is sad, and will have to be looked at. But it would be perfectly valid to argue that without these lower limits the figures would have been even higher.
Scotland has major issues with drugs, and alcohol abuse. We have the worst figures in Europe for both. We are trying to mitigate as much as possible the affects those issues can cause on our roads, and I and the vast majority in Scotland, wether we are SNP supporters or not, are fully behind these measures.
The whole of Europe can’t be wrong Barry and England right, or maybe you reckon you can. Some countries including Hungary, and Romania have zero limits, and some up here would even support this. A majority of Scots including myself want the current limits lowered not increased in line with yours.

What we don’t need are people coming up here questioning our laws or the punishments handed down if you breech them.
Barry I know how much you love my country, just try and respect the fact that we are a country, not governed by England. We entered the union of our own free will (or our landowners did), we are not subject to your laws whilst up here, and you are not subject to ours whilst down there. But when I travel to your country I am subject to your laws, and I don’t question what punishments I should receive if I breech them. I don’t say hey hold on it’s different down here, that’s not illegal in Scotland. I just take my punishment and if necessary show remorse if required.

I'm sorry that you seem to think my argument is political and somehow having a pop at Scotland as it's not the case as far as I am concerned. I just think they should be the same and if not then the ban should only apply in any country that has the lower limit. Nothing to do with wanting to tell the Scots what to do in their country.

According to this it's not had a positive effect anyway.

Introduction of stricter drink drive limit has had ‘no effect’ in reducing accidents

A new study argues that lower drink drive limits need to be backed up with stricter enforcement to tackle persistent drink driving-related accidents.

www.bath.ac.uk

We appear to be going round in circles so maybe we should leave it there. Imo they should be the same UK wide.

 

[Fisherman]

I'm sorry that you seem to think my argument is political and somehow having a pop at Scotland as it's not the case as far as I am concerned. I just think they should be the same and if not then the ban should only apply in any country that has the lower limit. Nothing to do with wanting to tell the Scots what to do in their country.

According to this it's not had a positive effect anyway.

Introduction of stricter drink drive limit has had ‘no effect’ in reducing accidents

A new study argues that lower drink drive limits need to be backed up with stricter enforcement to tackle persistent drink driving-related accidents.

www.bath.ac.uk

We appear to be going round in circles so maybe we should leave it there. Imo they should be the same UK wide.

 

[Fisherman]

We appear to be going round in circles so maybe we should leave it there. Imo they should be the same UK wide.

Yes Barry I agree, we are going round in circles.
Let’s agree to disagree.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Just don't drink and then go out and drive somewhere. Simples

I personally think arguing about the specifics of higher and lower limits is kind of irrelevant?

And, btw, I am definitely not "holier than thou" - I have been known in my younger days to imbibe (but not heavily) and drive home (carefully!) in the wee, small hours after a lock up in the pub in the darkest, out of the way depths of rural Derbyshire, but this was before the drink/drive laws were enacted ....

But I have never done so since they were enacted

 

[wildebus]

Has anyone questioned any of that. What has been questioned are the anomalies in the laws of the UK and are they fair.

Clearly yes going by the comments expecting no penalties for driving drunk in Scotland.

 

[Fisherman]

Just don't drink and then go out and drive somewhere. Simples

I personally think arguing about the specifics of higher and lower limits is kind of irrelevant?

And, btw, I am definitely not "holier than thou" - I have been known in my younger days to imbibe (but not heavily) and drive home (carefully!) in the wee, small hours after a lock up in the pub in the darkest, out of the way depths of rural Derbyshire, but this was before the drink/drive laws were enacted ....

Shame on ye wumen, shame on ye.


My points were nout to do with limits Marie, and all about mutual respect for our laws. Without that respect we don’t have a union. We do our thingymajig up here and you lot argue down there over who’s a southerner, or a northerner. Now howsthat for mutual disrespect Marie
When in Rome and all that.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

There will always be folk who take no notice of any legislation either way and will just take their chances, as with everything in life

 

[Fazerloz]

Clearly yes going by the comments expecting no penalties for driving drunk in Scotland.

Who has said they don't expect any penalties for driving drunk in Scotland.

 

[Fisherman]

There will always be folk who take no notice of any legislation either way and will just take their chances, as with everything in life

Aye just like yer gid self Marie, just like yer gid self

 

[wildebus]

Who has said they don't expect any penalties for driving drunk in Scotland.

Have you read the replies? To paraphrase a bunch of them .... "Why should I get a ban from driving in England if I am the Scottish limit but I have an English (no such thing, btw) Driving License?"

The answer is simple ... If you don't want to adhere to the laws in a Country, just don't go to that Country. Can it be any simpler than that?
You want to drive around with slightly under the English legal limit of alcohol with impunity, stay in England.

 

[Fazerloz]

I'm sorry that you seem to think my argument is political and somehow having a pop at Scotland as it's not the case as far as I am concerned. I just think they should be the same and if not then the ban should only apply in any country that has the lower limit. Nothing to do with wanting to tell the Scots what to do in their country.

According to this it's not had a positive effect anyway.

Introduction of stricter drink drive limit has had ‘no effect’ in reducing accidents

A new study argues that lower drink drive limits need to be backed up with stricter enforcement to tackle persistent drink driving-related accidents.

www.bath.ac.uk

We appear to be going round in circles so maybe we should leave it there. Imo they should be the same UK wide.

You are not wrong and we go back to my post #7 lets start again.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Shame on ye wumen, shame on ye.

I had a good conversation back in the summer with Red Dwarf's better half (whilst we were imbibing a good old selection of alcoholic beverages at the pub, as it happens... ).

Apparently, in some parts of Scotland it is still frowned on and considered "diabolical" for wimmen to even set foot in the pub.

What kind of backwards nation do you have up there, man?!

 

[Fisherman]

I had a good conversation back in the summer with Red Dwarf's better half (whilst we were imbibing a good old selection of alcoholic beverages at the pub, as it happens... ).

Apparently, in some parts of Scotland it is still frowned on and considered "diabolical" for wimmen to even set foot in the pub.

What kind of backwards nation do you have up there, man?!

Quite rite tae, a wummens place is by the sink whilst her man is oot getting pissed, whilst chattin up any wumen in the pub, who must be floosies, because they shouldnae be there in the first place Marie


Serously that went out long time ago, we even let you drive cars up here noo

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Quite rite tae, a wummens place is by the sink whilst her man is oot getting pissed, whilst chattin up any wumen in the pub, who must be floosies, because they shouldnae be there in the first place Marie


Serously that went out long time ago, we even let you drive cars up here noo

Apparently not.

Those were the words from the horse's mouth, i.e. a 'wumen' who actually resides there.

We're talking about a specific area of Scotland, mind you ...

 

[Fazerloz]

Have you read the replies? To paraphrase a bunch of them .... "Why should I get a ban from driving in England if I am the Scottish limit but I have an English (not such thing, btw) Driving License?"

The answer is simple ... If you don't want to adhere to the laws in a Country, just don't go to that Country. Can it be any simpler than that?
You want to drive around with slightly under the English legal limit of alcohol with impunity, stay in England.

Asking "Why should I get penalties" is not the same as someone saying " They don't expect any penalties".

 

[barryd]

Have you read the replies? To paraphrase a bunch of them .... "Why should I get a ban from driving in England if I am the Scottish limit but I have an English (no such thing, btw) Driving License?"

The answer is simple ... If you don't want to adhere to the laws in a Country, just don't go to that Country. Can it be any simpler than that?
You want to drive around with slightly under the English legal limit of alcohol with impunity, stay in England.

As far as I am aware nobody mentioned having an "English licence". Well I didn't. I also certainly said you should rightly be prosecuted in Scotland if over their limit. I don't agree however that any ban should be UK wide if under the English limit. That is all.

 

[alcam]

Have you read the replies? To paraphrase a bunch of them .... "Why should I get a ban from driving in England if I am the Scottish limit but I have an English (no such thing, btw) Driving License?"

The answer is simple ... If you don't want to adhere to the laws in a Country, just don't go to that Country. Can it be any simpler than that?
You want to drive around with slightly under the English legal limit of alcohol with impunity, stay in England.

Point being that if you are suspended from driving for a year under Scottish law the laws of the UK mean that ban applies throughout the UK.
It really is that simple.
Instead of us all falling in line with the English law , as has been (rather arrogantly) suggested , why don't we all fall in line with the Scottish law ?

 

[wildebus]

Something that I have wondered about (on a theoretical level, not personal, btw) is a situation that is very possible where I live ref the different permitted levels...
Pre-observation #1: I *think* the various Police Services in the UK only have primary jurisdiction in their own operational area? So say a Met Police car chasing someone would hand over to a Thames Valley car once it went past a certain point on the M4 (and maybe Surrey Police in-between?) - unless they had prior permission to continue.
I also think this would be particularly so when crossing a Country Border where depending on direction of travel, Police Scotland would either take over or relinquish responsibility for apprehension, given different laws - and knowledge of those laws - may be applicable.

The nearest town to me is Coldstream. There are quite a few pubs there. Coldstream is in Scotland.
The nearest village to Coldstream is Cornhill. I am not sure if there is more than one drinking establishment in Cornhill. Cornhill is in England.

Cornhill resident drives to Coldstream, has a pint of lager and that takes him to an alcohol level of 70. He then proceeds to drive back home. If he was in England, he is under the limit. As he was in Scotland, he is over the limit.
sets off out the carpark and heads home. Now from the pub to the Border is maybe a mile at the most, so a very short time will be taken (important point).
A Police Scotland car sees him leave the pub and follows him and decides to pull him over as his brake lights are not working.
The driver decides he does not want to risk a breathalyser so continues over the bridge and pulls over for the police car into the layby, which happens to be just over the "welcome to England" sign (and quite a way past the "Welcome to Scotland" sign in the other direction as it happens).

1) Can the Police Scotland car continue the follow over the Country Border?
2) If they do, can they actually make a charge without the person first returning to Scotland? Note due to short distance there is no way they could have got permission from Northumberland Police to cross Border in their role as police.
3) If they detain the person to wait for local English Constabulary to attend, what then happens? The Brake Light offence is clear cut, but if they (either/both Police Services) suspect the driver of drinking, what happens? Can Police Scotland breathalyse someone in a different jurisdiction? If they pass that role to the other Police Service, their breathalyser is calibrated at a different level so the driver would pass.
4) Can they request (and would it be legal to do so) that the English Police officer escort the driver back over the border so that Police Scotland officer can test them in Scotland?

I find it an interesting question and this actually came to mind a few years ago when another law was passed in Scotland related to a situation regarding Smoking in a car with Minors, where no such law existed in England. The same scenario (but for a much more serious issues IMO) applies here.

But still doesn't change the fact ... don't want to do the time, don't do the crime.