Drink driving in Scotland

[trevskoda]

I don’t see the issue. Admittedly I no longer drink so it isn’t going to affect me but it is down to the visitor to know and abide by whatever laws the country they visit have. Not saying I always abide by laws but if I broke one and caught it would be down to me. You can’t take an air gun into Scotland in your van but you can in England and Wales. There will be lots of differences I guess.

Full licence required for air guns in ulster, no idea why.

 

[wildebus]

Spot on, Air guns are banned in Scotland, unless you have a good reason for having one, and are licensed. You don’t need a rod licence in Scotland but you do in England. Many up here either are unaware of this or don’t bother getting a rod licence. But if they are caught, they can’t say hold on matey I’m Scottish, we don’t have rod licences up there, so I am exempt. As you say if you want to delve into it you will find many more differences between Scottish law and English law.

If you want a good laugh (and shake your head with amusement and disbelief), do a search on Youtube for "sovereign citizens". They don't have to adhere to any drink drive rules as they don't drive their cars, they 'travel' in them

 

[trevskoda]

Thats me obsolved as im told im a count.

 

[Fazerloz]

I think some may have misconstrued Barry. I read his post as when in Scotland you accept their laws and if caught accept the punishment whilst in Scotland but upon return to England where no law would have been broken due to the higher limit then no punishment should be applied upon return and whilst remaining in England. He is not saying Scottish law shouldn't apply to him whilst in Scotland.

 

[1 Cup]

There roads single lane speed limits are still at 40 for hgvs. In the Scotlands as the English raised them on proper roads. Lol so most of Scottish roads are 40 or less for us.

Not been to southern Ireland yet in van ,but are their road signs / speed limets and distances in kph or mph. Camper vibes are over there I take more notice

Complicated

 

[marchie]

Thats me obsolved as im told im a count.

Of Teutonic stock, Trev? Count der Cost

Steve

 

[marchie]

Full licence required for air guns in ulster, no idea why.

Subject to my failing memory, Trev, Scotland proposed licensing airguns after 1 [2 years old?] toddler was shot and killed by an airgun in Central Scotland about 15 years ago. IIRC, the law was passed by about 2010 after a lot of delay/dicussion/consultation et seq

Steve

 

[wildebus]

Subject to my failing memory, Trev, Scotland proposed licensing airguns after 1 [2 years old?] toddler was shot and killed by an airgun in Central Scotland about 15 years ago. IIRC, the law was passed by about 2010 after a lot of delay/dicussion/consultation et seq

Steve

Ref Airguns and Northern Ireland .... Belfast is often a postal hub for post send within the UK by Air, and Gun Shops have to be very careful to avoid their packages (including Air Guns) going via NI as if detected, they get destroyed.

I sold my Air Rifle after the requirement to have a License as it was very doubtful that I could get a license to keep it at home as I live next to a childens playground. So instead I use a Crossbow in the garden (far more lethal actually than an Airgun pellet but with no legislation applied).

 

[Fisherman]

Ref Airguns and Northern Ireland .... Belfast is often a postal hub for post send within the UK by Air, and Gun Shops have to be very careful to avoid their packages (including Air Guns) going via NI as if detected, they get destroyed.

I sold my Air Rifle after the requirement to have a License as it was very doubtful that I could get a license to keep it at home as I live next to a childens playground. So instead I use a Crossbow in the garden (far more lethal actually than an Airgun pellet but with no legislation applied).

There’s a massive anomaly here David.
Yes you don’t need a licence for a crossbow, but throughout the U.K. you are severely limited where you can use it. You can’t use in your garden, any public land, or even on farmland, or any private land without permission of the landowner. So using it in your garden is not permitted, unless it’s very big???
very big, define please, I’ve seen your garden, it’s massive

Can I shoot a crossbow in my garden UK?

It is illegal to discharge a crossbow in a public place or on land where you do not have permission to shoot – so don't try your bow out in the local woods, or a farmer's field. Nor should you shoot your bow in your garden, unless it's very, very big.

 

[alcam]

I think some may have misconstrued Barry. I read his post as when in Scotland you accept their laws and if caught accept the punishment whilst in Scotland but upon return to England where no law would have been broken due to the higher limit then no punishment should be applied upon return and whilst remaining in England. He is not saying Scottish law shouldn't apply to him whilst in Scotland.

Think we all get what Barry was saying but , unfortunately, England is not independent of Scotland

 

[Fisherman]

Think we all get what Barry was saying but , unfortunately, England is not independent of Scotland

And vice verser, nor any other nations laws whilst on their territory .
I totally get where Barry was coming from, there is no misunderstanding on my part. But a drink driving ban in Scotland, is a drink driving ban, plain and simple. The same would apply if you were driving in the Irish republic which has the same limit as Scotland. (See post #35).
If a Scot is convicted of drink driving, but at a level lower than set in England and Wales they are banned throughout the U.K., and the Irish republic, not just in Scotland. Sorry but I cannot see why Scottish law should be applied differently to English drivers whilst they are driving in Scotland. Also what would happen to someone who owns property in both countries, and lives in both, they could say they are English and be treated differently than some who lives in Scotland. It’s really simple if driving up here, be aware that our drink driving levels are lower.

And if you accept Scottish laws, you must also accept any punishment which goes along with them if broken, because if you don’t, then you don’t accept Scottish laws.

 

[wildebus]

There’s a massive anomaly here David.
Yes you don’t need a licence for a crossbow, but throughout the U.K. you are severely limited where you can use it. You can’t use in your garden, any public land, or even on farmland, or any private land without permission of the landowner. So using it in your garden is not permitted, unless it’s very big???
very big, define please, I’ve seen your garden, it’s massive

Can I shoot a crossbow in my garden UK?

It is illegal to discharge a crossbow in a public place or on land where you do not have permission to shoot – so don't try your bow out in the local woods, or a farmer's field. Nor should you shoot your bow in your garden, unless it's very, very big.

In reality .....
YES, I do have a Crossbow (well, actually, a pair of Cross-Pistols)
NO, I don't really shoot them in the garden as I hate the things (and they SHOULD be legislated!)
BUT ... What I DO do is shoot my Recurve Bow in the Garden. And t'was very handy in the lockdown as allowed me to carry on some activity when still not allowed to go away from the home (and shooting a Bow & Arrow is much more of a 'proper' sport than a Crossbow is, especially for an Englishman )

 

[Fazerloz]

Think we all get what Barry was saying but , unfortunately, England is not independent of Scotland

It's good that you speak for all, as some of the analogies that have been put forward by some made me think not.

 

[marchie]

We

And vice verser, nor any other nations laws whilst on their territory .
I totally get where Barry was coming from, there is no misunderstanding on my part. But a drink driving ban in Scotland, is a drink driving ban, plain and simple. The same would apply if you were driving in the Irish republic which has the same limit as Scotland. (See post #35).
If a Scot is convicted of drink driving, but at a level lower than set in England and Wales they are banned throughout the U.K., and the Irish republic, not just in Scotland. Sorry but I cannot see why Scottish law should be applied differently to English drivers whilst they are driving in Scotland. Also what would happen to someone who owns property in both countries, and lives in both, they could say they are English and be treated differently than some who lives in Scotland. It’s really simple if driving up here, be aware that our drink driving levels are lower.

And if you accept Scottish laws, you must also accept any punishment which goes along with them if broken, because if you don’t, then you don’t accept Scottish laws.

We have a hovel in France, and we have to abide by French laws for alcohol, driving, not doing renovations without prior consent if within 200m of the Church [IIRC]; we are, but, as long as the work is not visible from the road, and the immediate neighbours are happy, the requirement is relaxed ...

But, for any M/Homers driving in France, we are all subject French Law, so why would it be any different for, say, English in Scotland? There's a bloody big sign that says, 'Welcome to Scotland' to give a clue about the applicable law! To go to an absurd length, imagine an English driver who lives alongside the A1 on a 50mph stretch [nr Catterick?]. If he is stopped in the Borders in a 20mph limit, would we expect the said driver to claim that it is unfair to be booked for breaking a 20mph limit in Scotland, 'because where I live, it's a 50mph limit'?

Steve

 

[barryd]

Sorry Barry, but I don’t agree with your reasoning here.
If I get a driving ban in England it applies to the whole of the U.K., but if someone from England gets a driving ban in Scotland, it should only apply to Scotland, really.
Scotland has a different legal system to England and Wales, are you also saying that only English law should be applied to you whilst in Scotland. When you cross the border you not only should be aware of the lower drink driving limits, and be duty bound to abide by them legally, but you also are subject to Scottish laws, just as I am bound by English Law when I visit England and Wales.
There is no such thing as an English, or Scottish driving licence, just a U.K. licence issued by the DVLA throughout the U.K. Scotland although part of the U.K. is governed separately within the devolved arrangements, and driving offences fall within the jurisdiction of the Scottish government, and anyone from anywhere wishing to drive in Scotland is bound by our legislation, wether you reckon it’s right or wrong. You may feel that our drink driving limits are wrong, that’s fair enough, but if you wish to drive in any country governed by laws out with English law, you must abide by those laws not English Law.
I think the confusion here is the U.K. is not a country bound by the same laws, it’s a union of countries with three sets of laws. Just think Barry you could be living in the US with 50 separate states each with there own legal systems, some with capital punishment, and some without. Murder someone in Florida, and you can get the death penalty, but if you do so in Pennsylvania you won’t. So if you want to murder anyone in the US don’t do in Florida, and try to claim immunity from the death penalty because you live in Pennsylvania

It would make sense for you to get banned across the UK including Scotland if you got done in England because you would be over 0.8 which means over the limit for England but well over the limit for Scotland. So in the eyes of the law of both countries you are over the limit. However the other way around if you blew 0.6 in Scotland you would rightly be done because thats their limit but you wont get done if you blow 0.6 in England. The only way it would be fair would be to have a lower limit in England just for Scots You decided to lower your limits which is fine but I should not lose my licence to drive in England, only Scotland if I blow 0.6 on your breathalyser as in the eyes of English law I have done nothing wrong.

Just so we are clear once again. I dont condone drinking and driving. I Do think the level should be same across the UK though.

 

[barryd]

I don’t see the issue. Admittedly I no longer drink so it isn’t going to affect me but it is down to the visitor to know and abide by whatever laws the country they visit have. Not saying I always abide by laws but if I broke one and caught it would be down to me. You can’t take an air gun into Scotland in your van but you can in England and Wales. There will be lots of differences I guess.

I never knew about the air gun law. I used to often take an air rifle to Scotland with me. Jeeeesaz! Im starting to sound like a proper criminal!

 

[Robmac]

I never knew about the air gun law. I used to often take an air rifle to Scotland with me. Jeeeesaz! Im starting to sound like a proper criminal!

I think it's ok in the Haggis hunting season Barry.

 

[Fisherman]

It would make sense for you to get banned across the UK including Scotland if you got done in England because you would be over 0.8 which means over the limit for England but well over the limit for Scotland. So in the eyes of the law of both countries you are over the limit. However the other way around if you blew 0.6 in Scotland you would rightly be done because thats their limit but you wont get done if you blow 0.6 in England. The only way it would be fair would be to have a lower limit in England just for Scots You decided to lower your limits which is fine but I should not lose my licence to drive in England, only Scotland if I blow 0.6 on your breathalyser as in the eyes of English law I have done nothing wrong.

Just so we are clear once again. I dont condone drinking and driving. I Do think the level should be same across the UK though.

And the French and the Irish decided to lower their limits, as have most of Europe Barry. So does the same logic apply here. Sorry or is it ok for anyone else apart from the Scots to set their own limits. No one is asking England to lower their limit for anyone. England are free to set their limits, I have no problem with this whatsoever, but you seem to think that we should simply follow what you do, like some kind of subservient state.

So using your logic you are done for drunk driving in France, which has the same limit as Scotland. You simply say to the French police officer.


agent de grâce, je suis anglais, vos lois sur l'alcool au volant ne s'appliquent pas à moi.

Or does that only apply when dealing with Scottish laws, which you appear to reckon we have no right to make, or apply evenly to all who brake them.

When in Rome Barry, when in Rome.

 

[barryd]

And the French and the Irish decided to lower their limits, as have most of Europe Barry. So does the same logic apply here. Sorry or is it ok for anyone else apart from the Scots to set their own limits. No one is asking England to lower their limit for anyone. England are free to set their limits, I have no problem with this whatsoever, but you seem to think that we should simply follow what you do, like some kind of subservient state.

So using your logic you are done for drunk driving in France, which has the same limit as Scotland. You simply say to the French police officer.


agent de grâce, je suis anglais, vos lois sur l'alcool au volant ne s'appliquent pas à moi.

Or does that only apply when dealing with Scottish laws, which you appear to reckon we have no right to make, or apply evenly to all who brake them.

When in Rome Barry, when in Rome.

I dont think you understand what I am saying Bill. If I get done for DD in France I wont lose my UK licence, ill just be banned in France. England does not agree clearly with the Scottish lowering of the DD Law so the same should apply. If I get done in Scotland for breaking their lower level of tolerance then I rightly should be done in Scotland, fined and banned from Driving there if that is what they deem appropriate but why should I be banned in England? I have broken no laws in England and had I been stopped and breathalysed for say 0.6mg in England I would not have committed an offence there so in the eyes of English law, why should I lose my right to drive outside of Scotland?

You have every right to make laws in Scotland. But if they are "peculiar" to Scotland then the penalty should only apply in Scotland.

 

[colinm]

I never knew about the air gun law. I used to often take an air rifle to Scotland with me. Jeeeesaz! Im starting to sound like a proper criminal!

The law around air rifles is very strange, in Scotland you get a license to own sub 12 rifles and this covers you for multiple rifles, I have a FAC which includes a high powered air rifle and can legally take this to Scotland, but if I was to take a low powered rifle it would be illegal.