After the 'Goodish' news in W Wales, there's this from N Wales

[barryd]

But where is the actual evidence? Still waiting on that one.

 

[JQB]

This is partly the problem. You’re saying you doubt it’s ever happened. So there are indeed people on this forum that deny it.

I’ve witnessed it, so presumably you’re saying I’m lying or mistaken. Others have too, presumeably you’re saying they are lying or mistaken too.

The pub in the Lake District caught it on CCTV and was so disgusted he stopped doing stopovers. Presumeably he’s lying too.

I simply can’t understand why you repeatedly deny it happens, when there’s evidence. Obviously it’s your choice, but it doesn’t help when anti motorhomers see your comments denying it happens (and trust me, it gets out there).

Everyone is entitled to a considered considerate polite opinion. I've never seen loo waste anywhere, but i have seen rabid untrue reporting such as in the West Somerset Free Press. According to the WSFP campervan folk smashed up Minehead public toilets, blocked the drains with toilet waste (it's liquid), parked 200 vans all at once in a short length of road well under 200mtrs in length. Oh! and of course emptied their toilets randomly. Not motorists of course, or even local yeti, just those terrible campervan scumbags. Rubbish but it made a good clickbait story.
The council man behind the story has a large caravan in his driveway.
We don't use a chemical loo so are not guilty of these crimes real or imagined.

 

[Rolyan57]

But do some folk really mt their toilets in car parks and ditches, or is it all made up by van haters having read the same story in some other click bait rag?
No Camping signs? Staying over in a van is not camping, but do not put any stuff out whatsoever, it's not allowed on aires.
We won't even use levelling chocks.

Some do, yes. That’s a fact and has been witnessed by some of us, as well as reported by reputable organisations.

Is it the majority of motorhomers?No it’s not. Is it even a “sizeable minority”; no, although it’s subjective how you define sizeable.

So it definitely happens. It’s fair to argue that it’s infrequent, but that misses a key point. I’ve been keeping an eye on the reports, and to my knowledge not one single place has banned Motorhome’s due to isolated instances of dumping cassettes. The ones I’ve see have had a number of issues, usually several of the following:
1) toilet cassettes emptied
2) staying for weeks on end and preventing ‘day trippers’ from parking.
3) parking inconsiderately and preventing day trippers from parking.
4) exceeding maximum numbers
5) ignoring minimum distances between vans
6) using barbecues and open fires,

Plus various others.

So for example, some cassettes were dumped at Helmsley. Fact. I witnessed it as did others. But when it was banned as a stopover, siting all of the above as reasons, all the defences were “I’ve never witnessed a cassette being dumped”.

So yes, it definitely happens, it’s not all over, it’s much more likely in isolated spots where people stay for weeks, but bans come about for a multiple of reasons, and it is rarely if ever just one isolated instance of the above.

 

[Rolyan57]

Everyone is entitled to a considered considerate polite opinion. I've never seen loo waste anywhere, but i have seen rabid untrue reporting such as in the West Somerset Free Press. According to the WSFP campervan folk smashed up Minehead public toilets, blocked the drains with toilet waste (it's liquid), parked 200 vans all at once in a short length of road well under 200mtrs in length. Oh! and of course emptied their toilets randomly. Not motorists of course, or even local yeti, just those terrible campervan scumbags. Rubbish but it made a good clickbait story.
The council man behind the story has a large caravan in his driveway.
We don't use a chemical loo so are not guilty of these crimes real or imagined.

I’ve witnessed it first hand. As have other people I know.

I’ve also seen reports from trustworthy sources of public toilets being blocked. You have to remember it’s not just liquid waste, and that’s the problem. Some of these public toilets are not designed for the volume of toilet waste from cassettes. While it’s much harder to witness (no one is in the cubicle with them) it’s really easy to see how it happens.

I’ve said above I don’t think it’s frequent. Every ban I’ve seen has listed a number of reasons, all witnessed and believable.

While you and others struggle to believe it happens, I and others struggle to understand why you won’t believe us when we say we’ve seen it.

It happens, albeit infrequently, and is always accompanied by other issues that get us banned.

 

[trevskoda]

I’ve witnessed it first hand. As have other people I know.

I’ve also seen reports from trustworthy sources of public toilets being blocked. You have to remember it’s not just liquid waste, and that’s the problem. Some of these public toilets are not designed for the volume of toilet waste from cassettes. While it’s much harder to witness (no one is in the cubicle with them) it’s really easy to see how it happens.

I’ve said above I don’t think it’s frequent. Every ban I’ve seen has listed a number of reasons, all witnessed and believable.

While you and others struggle to believe it happens, I and others struggle to understand why you won’t believe us when we say we’ve seen it.

It happens, albeit infrequently, and is always accompanied by other issues that get us banned.

If you use bio tabs there is nothing but a light brown water comes out. all paper and richard the thirds are disolved.

 

[Fisherman]

While you and others struggle to believe it happens, I and others struggle to understand why you won’t believe us when we say we’ve seen it.

It happens, albeit infrequently, and is always accompanied by other issues that get us banned.

Wheras Motorhomers using public toilets to empty their waste is common, blocking of toilets by doing this is rare. When returning from trips where we had no access to an elsan point we empty our cassette into our downstairs toilet, and have never created a blockage. But in Musselburgh the public toilets at Fisherrow were deliberately blocked by teenagers.
I have witnessed Motorhomers emptying their cassettes into public toilets many times, therefore I would reckon the same would apply to the vast majority on here. Therefore I doubt very much if JQB would deny emptying of cassettes into public toilets is common, and JQB would have no problem believing so.
You say that WCs are not designed to be used for emptying cassettes, perhaps you can explain why their use for this purpose is common in campsites, and CLs.
Also at lochore in Fife their elsan point was constantly being deliberately blocked by youths putting bottles and other items into it. Although I am not denying that this was the case, but to assume without evidence that the toilets in minehead were blocked by Motorhomers seems wrong. But then we are fair game for such inaccurate reporting.

 

[witzend]

I would like to see your research on that! It would actually be impossible to tell! But if what you say is right, where does the toilet paper come from?

From Wiping A### after S###### still nice to clean up Often see them walking into the woods carrying a toilet roll

 

[Robmac]

...But we have seen vans parked in a layby while on holiday with the kids, they were there for the week we were there. Awning rolled out, chairs and table, BBQ! Wild camping should be discreet. it shouldn't impact the local area.

How exactly did you police this when you witnessed it?

 

[Fisherman]

How exactly did you police this when you witnessed it?

They stayed there for a week to witness it Rob.

 

[Robmac]

They stayed there for a week to witness it Rob.

It was a genuine question Bill, however I have since read that they challenged and were threatened so now just report it.

But my reckoning is - if you feel like challenging them then do so at your own risk, they may well get aggressive and almost certainly won't move on because you tell them to. Secondly - report them to whom? You can't get the police out to a burglary so they are hardly likely to come and move them on and reporting to a council will just give the council more ammunition to apply further regulations.

I have challenged people before but I don't really consider it my duty to do so.

 

[witzend]

But where is the actual evidence? Still waiting on that one.

Sh###### in the wild with knackered Knees is difficult

 

[Fisherman]

It was a genuine question Bill, however I have since read that they challenged and were threatened so now just report it.

But my reckoning is - if you feel like challenging them then do so at your own risk, they may well get aggressive and almost certainly won't move on because you tell them to. Secondly - report them to whom? You can't get the police out to a burglary so they are hardly likely to come and move them on and reporting to a council will just give the council more ammunition to apply further regulations.

I have challenged people before but I don't really consider it my duty to do so.

Sadly Rob, some are willing to believe whatever is reported in the media.
Over the years I have learnt to be sceptical about what I read about us, which is rarely if ever favourable. We are easy targets, seen as freeloaders, who are not contributing to local economies, who dump their human waste wherever they see fit. Yet others who visit these places don’t have this burden placed upon them. Take St Andrews with its massive carpark were hundreds of cars turn up in the summer months. They head for the beech, use the toilet facilities, and mostly don’t even head into the town, spending nothing whatsoever. Yet if a few motorhomes do likewise they are not contributing to the local economy. Yet many Motorhomers who go there, are there for the first time, and do head into town spending their cash.

On a trip to Cellardyke, we walked into Anstruther on a warm summers day.
The place was heaving, the carparks were full, and every bit of kerb available was filled with cars. Even the side streets were the same. My wife and I overheard this couple talking about two motorhomes in the carpark, oblivious to the hundreds of cars that had engulfed the town. They should not be allowed there was the cry, what chance do we have when people think like this. Sadly the media have butchered us over the years, and most of the public have swallowed it hook line and sinker.

 

[Rolyan57]

If you use bio tabs there is nothing but a light brown water comes out. all paper and richard the thirds are disolved.

…and what about the ones who don’t? Either because they don’t know to or don’t care.

 

[Rolyan57]

Wheras Motorhomers using public toilets to empty their waste is common, blocking of toilets by doing this is rare. When returning from trips where we had no access to an elsan point we empty our cassette into our downstairs toilet, and have never created a blockage. But in Musselburgh the public toilets at Fisherrow were deliberately blocked by teenagers.
I have witnessed Motorhomers emptying their cassettes into public toilets many times, therefore I would reckon the same would apply to the vast majority on here. Therefore I doubt very much if JQB would deny emptying of cassettes into public toilets is common, and JQB would have no problem believing so.
You say that WCs are not designed to be used for emptying cassettes, perhaps you can explain why their use for this purpose is common in campsites, and CLs.
Also at lochore in Fife their elsan point was constantly being deliberately blocked by youths putting bottles and other items into it. Although I am not denying that this was the case, but to assume without evidence that the toilets in minehead were blocked by Motorhomers seems wrong. But then we are fair game for such inaccurate reporting.

You’ve misquoted me. I said “some” public toilets are not designed to handle the large volume of waste from a cassette. Not all sewer systems use large bore pipes and effective flush systems.

The reason the CLs and CSs can manage, is because they have facilities that can cope. If they haven’t, they sort it.

Just to be clear, I’ve never denied that there are instances of innacurate reporting. Deliberately and accidental.

All Ive said is that it happens, caused by motorhomers. I’ve not said that it’s widespread or always motorhomers. Im still unsure why you’re denying that it happens due to some motorhomers. Obviously if you’re not denying, and you accept that it has happened, I’m unsure as to why you keep arguing the point.

 

[Fisherman]

You’ve misquoted me. I said “some” public toilets are not designed to handle the large volume of waste from a cassette. Not all sewer systems use large bore pipes and effective flush systems.

The reason the CLs and CSs can manage, is because they have facilities that can cope. If they haven’t, they sort it.

Just to be clear, I’ve never denied that there are instances of innacurate reporting. Deliberately and accidental.

All Ive said is that it happens, caused by motorhomers. I’ve not said that it’s widespread or always motorhomers. Im still unsure why you’re denying that it happens due to some motorhomers. Obviously if you’re not denying, and you accept that it has happened, I’m unsure as to why you keep arguing the point.

Therefore if these toilets have small bore pipes there should be signage warning users of this. In some countries you can block the toilets disposing of toilet paper in the WCs. I am not in favour of this practice, but blaming Motorhome users for blockages without any evidence, when this could have been done by others either deliberately or not is typical of lazy sensationalism within our media, who never have anything positive to say about us. I have given two examples were the act of blocking a public toilet, and an elsan point were deliberate acts of vandalism, neither of which were reported in the media.
And I have never stated anywhere that it never happens, so please don’t misquote me. What I have said is these occurrences are exaggerated for public consumption, and sadly you seem to be willing to accept what is being reported.

 

[Rolyan57]

Therefore if these toilets have small bore pipes there should be signage warning users of this. In some countries you can block the toilets disposing of toilet paper in the WCs. I am not in favour of this practice, but blaming Motorhome users for blockages without any evidence, when this could have been done by others either deliberately or not is typical of lazy sensationalism within our media, who never have anything positive to say about us. I have given two examples were the act of blocking a public toilet, and an elsan point were deliberate acts of vandalism, neither of which were reported in the media.
And I have never stated anywhere that it never happens, so please don’t misquote me. What I have said is these occurrences are exaggerated for public consumption, and sadly you seem to be willing to accept what is being reported.

I’ve been very clear that it happens, but it’s not that frequent and not always motorhomers. I’ve also said very clearly that I certainly don’t believe everything that’s been reported.

Everytime I clarify that you come back with yet another argument. Which suggests that you disagree. Thats fine. That’s your choice.

However, if you agree with me that it does happen due to motorhomers, albeit not frequently and not exclusively, then I’m wondering why you keep arguing the point.

 

[Rolyan57]

Therefore if these toilets have small bore pipes there should be signage warning users of this. In some countries you can block the toilets disposing of toilet paper in the WCs.

These type of toilets in this country are often old, in basic car parks, that were never designed for stopovers. They clearly never expected this problem, so obviously didn’t have signs up in advance. Once it happened they have added signage warning users of this.

Just like those foreign countries you mention, where toilets can’t take paper etc. There were no signs at all originally. The locals knew and didn’t need signs. Then tourists and other visitors arrived, the toilets became blocked, and at that point signs were added.

Thats how it works.

 

[mistericeman]

These type of toilets in this country are often old, in basic car parks, that were never designed for stopovers. They clearly never expected this problem, so obviously didn’t have signs up in advance. Once it happened they have added signage warning users of this.

Just like those foreign countries you mention, where toilets can’t take paper etc. There were no signs at all originally. The locals knew and didn’t need signs. Then tourists and other visitors arrived, the toilets became blocked, and at that point signs were added.

Thats how it works.

I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the toilet casette in a carrier bag etc and sneak in and empty it in public toilets idea ...

Anymore than I'd advocate the filling up of water round the back of services/graveyards etc ...

Certainly without express permission ....

Those behaviours just provide ammo to the Anti motorhome/freeloader brigades .

Happy to call in a site now and again (or pretty much always now)

For services and peace and quiet ....

To the point ,
I'm actually questioning my membership of sites like this ....

I don't use the POIs (I've always used Google earth/road atlases )

More and more I feel like distancing myself from the whole 'wild camping/van life' thing

Only so many threads stick on or bolt down panels I can read .

 

[Fisherman]

I’ve been very clear that it happens, but it’s not that frequent and not always motorhomers. I’ve also said very clearly that I certainly don’t believe everything that’s been reported.

Everytime I clarify that you come back with yet another argument. Which suggests that you disagree. Thats fine. That’s your choice.

However, if you agree with me that it does happen due to motorhomers, albeit not frequently and not exclusively, then I’m wondering why you keep arguing the point.

It’s called debate, you call it argument if you wish.
And I could say the same about you.
And yes it is OUR choice,

 

[Robmac]

I'm afraid I don't subscribe to the toilet casette in a carrier bag etc and sneak in and empty it in public toilets idea ...

Anymore than I'd advocate the filling up of water round the back of services/graveyards etc ...

Certainly without express permission ....

Those behaviours just provide ammo to the Anti motorhome/freeloader brigades .

I couldn't agree more.