After the 'Goodish' news in W Wales, there's this from N Wales

[Rolyan57]

I’ve been following this for a while, these are some of the issues:

Toilet cassette contents dumped - that’s not car owners.
Vans parking inconsiderately and staying days and weeks, stopping day visitors.
Large waste in bags - that’s not usually car visitors.

There were other problems too.

I’m not suggesting it’s exclusively van owners causing problems. But we do ourselves no favours by denying that some vans do cause these specific problems. The councils then weigh up the cost and effectiveness of control and monitoring measures and realise it’s easier just to put up height barriers. They can’t trust people to stick to maximum numbers, think Skipton.

As this type of vanner doesn’t contribute much to the local economy, this was inevitable I’m afraid, and we’ll see more until the self entitled Covid campers give it up.

 

[Rolyan57]

I have no doubt it goes on, but not in the quantities that motorhome owners do when they empty cassettes. We have seen this a number of times. The first two times, I challenged them and was threatened, after that we just reported them. I still maintain that we are worse than car owners! And there is the trouble with us! The longer we make excuses and don't accept we have a problem, the longer it will go on and places like this will be closed to us!

I agree 100%. Irresponsible vanners do worse damage than irresponsible car drivers. Plus spend less. Which is why we get banned.

 

[Fisherman]

I’m not suggesting it’s exclusively van owners causing problems. But we do ourselves no favours by denying that some vans do cause these specific problems. The councils then weigh up the cost and effectiveness of control and monitoring measures and realise it’s easier just to put up height barriers. They can’t trust people to stick to maximum numbers, think Skipton.

As this type of vanner doesn’t contribute much to the local economy, this was inevitable I’m afraid, and we’ll see more until the self entitled Covid campers give it up.

Who has denied this, please take me to that post.
And why is this not inevitable in the continent, Australia, New Zealand, and many other countries worldwide.
Also you say on post 22 that we spend less than car drivers, I totally disagree with that comment. I would actually argue the reverse.
Also we may not contribute directly as much as those staying in hotels and B&Bs to a local community, how could we.
But I recently purchased a new motorhome paying over £14,000 in VAT.
We contribute nationally several billion to the national economy, and much of this is filtered down to local communities.
Also its reckoned that ourselves and caravan owners keep over 150,000 in full time employment.
The fact is in recent times our numbers have increased every year, and every year less and less places have become available, due to councils behaving like those mentioned in this thread.

 

[Debroos]

I would like to see your research on that! It would actually be impossible to tell! But if what you say is right, where does the toilet paper come from? Where does the quantity come from, if not a cassette?

My research, like yours, is from being out and about for the last many years. There was definitely a time before motor homes and plenty of sxxxt about complete with toilet paper. It stands to reason that if you are out for a day at the beach or beauty spot, and often there are no toilets, what else can you do? They must come prepared as there is always toilet paper next to them!
Motorhomes do have toilets for these occasions.
Of course a minority of motorhomers have dumped cassette waste and it is a huge amount and disgusting.
Not sure what you mean about motorhomers being in denial of the problem. And if it were true what else can we do? Lobbying for facilities is already happening.
And I'm sure it is less than councils and the media make out.
Someone on here, forget their names, asked for many foi's from councils when dumping was used as the reason for closing off carparks and in almost all cases their claims of dumping and complaints turned out to be non existent!

 

[Fisherman]

My research, like yours, is from being out and about for the last many years. There was definitely a time before motor homes and plenty of sxxxt about complete with toilet paper. It stands to reason that if you are out for a day at the beach or beauty spot, and often there are no toilets, what else can you do? They must come prepared as there is always toilet paper next to them!
Motorhomes do have toilets for these occasions.
Of course a minority of motorhomers have dumped cassette waste and it is a huge amount and disgusting.
Not sure what you mean about motorhomers being in denial of the problem. And if it were true what else can we do? Lobbying for facilities is already happening.
And I'm sure it is less than councils and the media make out.
Someone on here, forget their names, asked for many foi's from councils when dumping was used as the reason for closing off carparks and in almost all cases their claims of dumping and complaints turned out to be non existent!

I can quote many instances where we were not the main problem, yet we alone were banned. One that always comes to mind is Musselburgh Fisherrow, were we had decided due to the terrible behaviour of non Motorhomers we would never return. Loud music and boisterous behaviour till the wee hours underneath flats, men urinating on a wall in front of us after the toilets were closed, toilets being vandalised, dog mess everywhere, rubbish left on the beech including broken glass, water taps turned on left running. What did they do, banned us.
Well since banning us the toilets had to be closed due to being vandalised, and I have no doubt all of the other poor behaviour continues. They did attempt to allow us back for £15 a night, but as I said we had already decided never to return, we would not stay there for free now. But that’s now irrelevant, as we alone have been banned, and yet I would argue we spent more than those others, and we were the best behaved in that carpark.
I to have witnessed poor behaviour by members of our community. And like yourself it angers me immensely. We even have stopped visiting certain places during the busier times, not wanting to be part of this behaviour. These places are in Fife, who have bent over backwards to support us. But their efforts are hindered by the likes of East Lothian across the water who behave like the councils in north Wales. This then puts even more pressure on Fife Council to provide more and more places for us to park. The fact that it’s inevitable that many councils ban us, has less to do with our behaviour, and far more to do with their attitudes towards us.

 

[Harrytherid]

I also witnessed a woman car driver squatting down for a pee in Inverewe car park, where they now provide an elsan point and freshwater, the toilets were closed at that time

Inverewe eh? bet the midges gave her bum a right going over.

 

[Fisherman]

Inverewe eh? bet the midges gave her bum a right going over.

Hope so

 

[Harrytherid]

I love the way we motorhome owners try and offset a problem with us, making it a problem with others. The problem is not wild camping, it is the freeloading element who stay for days, treating it like a comp site. And staying for days on end, they have to empty the loo somewhere, but where? Obviously in the dunes! Yes, car owners leave rubbish, they may have a wee, but I don't accecpt that they squat down for a poo at the edge of a carpark!

We (collectively) are at fault, because we don't police ourselves. None of us should be parking up for days on end, a couple of nights? Yes. But we have seen vans parked in a layby while on holiday with the kids, they were there for the week we were there. Awning rolled out, chairs and table, BBQ! Wild camping should be discreet. it shouldn't impact the local area.

How do we police ourselves eh?. At Marazion in Cornwall a guy was parked , basically for the season,. on a wide footpath, I suggested (nicely) explaining what would probably happen if he did, that he move on occasionally. He told me in no uncertain terms to mind my own business. I explained that it was my own business as he would spoil it for all of us eventually; which is what happened. The council redesigned the footpath and made it impossible for anybody to park there. Cassette emptying is another matter and I could well contact t the police about that if I saw it happening.

 

[Fisherman]

How do we police ourselves eh?. At Marazion in Cornwall a guy was parked , basically for the season,. on a wide footpath, I suggested (nicely) explaining what would probably happen if he did, that he move on occasionally. He told me in no uncertain terms to mind my own business. I explained that it was my own business as he would spoil it for all of us eventually; which is what happened. The council redesigned the footpath and made it impossible for anybody to park there. Cassette emptying is another matter and I could well contact t the police about that if I saw it happening.

Why not simply move him and his likes on, instead of punishing everyone else.

On a recent trip to Arran on a very small adhoc carpark I witnessed a caravan owner taking up half of the carpark. Not only did he park his caravan, but one one side he put out an awning, and on the other side he parked his car. When we returned I was incensed at this utterly selfish behaviour. I told local people turning up to walk their dogs to park behind us, as we were not leaving till the next morning. When posting my anger on here, certain posters actually attempted to support his actions. What chance do we have when some of us can’t see that this type of behaviour damages us, even though he was a caravan owner, we are all viewed as the same by some.

 

[barryd]

Has anyone ever witnessed someone emptying a cassette on the beach or the dunes or anywhere inappropriate and provided the video or photographic evidence in any of these many reports you see where they claim motorhomers doing this as a reason to ban them? I think there was something a year or so back where it appeared that a cassette had been emptied into a stream but still no actual "Caught on camera" evidence.

I reckon 99% of it is bullshit. Just made up. Who the hell would dump a cassette in the dunes where you and many others are staying?

 

[Fisherman]

Has anyone ever witnessed someone emptying a cassette on the beach or the dunes or anywhere inappropriate and provided the video or photographic evidence in any of these many reports you see where they claim motorhomers doing this as a reason to ban them? I think there was something a year or so back where it appeared that a cassette had been emptied into a stream but still no actual "Caught on camera" evidence.

I reckon 99% of it is bullshit. Just made up. Who the hell would dump a cassette in the dunes where you and many others are staying?

It was in Wales Barry, and the guy who reported it was some kind of wildlife reporter on tv. It turned out to be something else, but the papers were full of anti Motorhome reports regarding this, and it was all over the internet. And this reporter did not even have the decency to report his error. And you know what they say about mud Barry, it sticks.

Oh bye the way BULLSHIT I like it

 

[mark61]

Never witnessed it, but have seen the results a few times, and that's about 3 times in many years of touring, and all those would have been somewhere in mainland Europe.

 

[Fisherman]

Just found the report Barry, and its still online, even though this was proved wrong.

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2023-07-04/it-is-absolutely-disgusting-dad-finds-his-kids-in-river-full-of-human-waste

 

[barryd]

It was in Wales Barry, and the guy who reported it was some kind of wildlife reporter on tv. It turned out to be something else, but the papers were full of anti Motorhome reports regarding this, and it was all over the internet. And this reporter did not even have the decency to report his error. And you know what they say about mud Barry, it sticks.

Oh bye the way BULLSHIT I like it

Ah right! Thanks Bill. yes that was it. So the one report where it looked like a motorhomer was definitely involved turned out to be untrue also.

 

[Debroos]

It was in Wales Barry, and the guy who reported it was some kind of wildlife reporter on tv. It turned out to be something else, but the papers were full of anti Motorhome reports regarding this, and it was all over the internet. And this reporter did not even have the decency to report his error. And you know what they say about mud Barry, it sticks.

Oh bye the way BULLSHIT I like it

Can you remember what it turned out to be?

 

[Fisherman]

Can you remember what it turned out to be?

I think it was food possibly dumped there by campers. The local water authority took samples and confirmed it was not the contents of a cassette. But when you consider what the water authorities dump into our rivers, it makes you wonder what all the fuss is about.

Welsh Water admits sewage spilled into Powys rivers for 151 days in four years

Professor Peter Hammond found that in Powys there were 151 days of sewage being illegally released into the water from 2018 to 2022.

www.countytimes.co.uk

 

[trevskoda]

Big problem here is most public toilets are closed after 5pm in summer & winter, so folk with kids and men do leave logs in the sand dunes, ladies just expload.

 

[chrishunter]

We have a problem, whilst others who abuse facilities are free to continue using these facilities we are not. What excuses, no one on here reckons that all within our community are blameless, but we alone bear the brunt of measures to stop us from enjoying our pastime. The fact is this country lacks a proper infrastructure, and a willingness to support our needs. I am not condoning in any way inappropriate disposal of waste. But there is a total lack of facilities for us to do so appropriately. In northern Scotland times are changing, with new facilities being opened on a weekly basis. But this is not symptomatic of what’s going on in most parts of the country.
When you consider how much we add to the U.K. economy and how little we receive in return, it’s appalling. In this country more is spent preventing us from enjoying our pastime, than providing what we require. Whilst in many other parts of the world they have a more tolerant approach than we do. Compare us to Europe, the comparison says it all. Hence why many on here cross the channel rather than stay here with their vans.
As I said earlier, all kinds of idiots use carparks, but most of them don’t drive motorhomes.
Finally I have never witnessed a Motorhome owner emptying a cassette inappropriately, nor have I ever seen the contents of a cassette anywhere.
However I have witnessed cassettes being emptied in public toilets, something I don’t do.

Would that be a problem to empty the cassette down a public toilet.

 

[Rolyan57]

Would that be a problem to empty the cassette down a public toilet.

It can be yes. Some public toilets have been blocked. They are not designed for the volume and/or the chemicals.

 

[Rolyan57]

Who has denied this, please take me to that post.
And why is this not inevitable in the continent, Australia, New Zealand, and many other countries worldwide.
Also you say on post 22 that we spend less than car drivers, I totally disagree with that comment. I would actually argue the reverse.
Also we may not contribute directly as much as those staying in hotels and B&Bs to a local community, how could we.
But I recently purchased a new motorhome paying over £14,000 in VAT.
We contribute nationally several billion to the national economy, and much of this is filtered down to local communities.
Also its reckoned that ourselves and caravan owners keep over 150,000 in full time employment.
The fact is in recent times our numbers have increased every year, and every year less and less places have become available, due to councils behaving like those mentioned in this thread.

Lots of people deny we’re causing problems. 5 minutes spent on some of the forums will show that.

Yes, many of the vanners staying over for weeks and causing these problems will spend a lot less than day trippers on holiday.

I partially agree with your last paragraph, which should read:
The fact is in recent times our numbers have increased every year, and every year less and less places have become available, due to some motorhomers behaving like those mentioned in this thread and elsewhere.