After the 'Goodish' news in W Wales, there's this from N Wales

[Rolyan57]

Has anyone ever witnessed someone emptying a cassette on the beach or the dunes or anywhere inappropriate and provided the video or photographic evidence in any of these many reports you see where they claim motorhomers doing this as a reason to ban them? I think there was something a year or so back where it appeared that a cassette had been emptied into a stream but still no actual "Caught on camera" evidence.

I reckon 99% of it is bullshit. Just made up. Who the hell would dump a cassette in the dunes where you and many others are staying?

Yes, it’s been witnessed. By me and by others. In the U.K. and abroad, it’s not restricted to here. Someone even did it in a car park in the Lake District and the pub closed the stopover.

This is partly the problem, that so many motorhomers want to deny there’s a problem. There is, albeit with a small minority.

 

[Fisherman]

Would that be a problem to empty the cassette down a public toilet.

Something I have never done, and will never do.
I have many times witnessed the mess left after this has been done.
New England Bay in Galloway the toilets were in a state due to this behaviour, better now that they fitted an elsan point. The toilets in Brodick in Arran are constantly filthy due to cassette emptying, even though there’s a sign outside asking us not to do this, and free elsan points in whiting bay and blackwaterfoot.
When I plan a trip, I make sure it includes access to an elsan point, and have no need to do so.
I have witnessed someone entering a public toilet in Elie Ruby bay and less than a minute later leaving with their empty cassette. No way they made any attempt to clean the toilet.
Bottom line, why do this, it’s unnecessary, and it’s unhygienic.
Also the colour left on the WC and surrounding area is normally blue, not green, and both of the toilets I have quoted are connected to sceptic tanks.

 

[AndyWill64]

It can be yes. Some public toilets have been blocked. They are not designed for the volume and/or the chemicals.

I bought a RADAR key from Amazon although I've never needed to use it yet.

I also only ever use the green chemicals.

On the occasions where I have had to empty a cassette into a normal toilet I always do it in three or four stages flushing in between, and obviously cleaning up as necessary afterwards.

It's not difficult.

 

[AndyWill64]

... and, of course, it's not always necessary to completely empty the cassette, just make a bit of room.

 

[Fisherman]

Lots of people deny we’re causing problems. 5 minutes spent on some of the forums will show that.

Yes, many of the vanners staying over for weeks and causing these problems will spend a lot less than day trippers on holiday.

I partially agree with your last paragraph, which should read:
The fact is in recent times our numbers have increased every year, and every year less and less places have become available, due to some motorhomers behaving like those mentioned in this thread and elsewhere.

Can you find even one post on here where this has ever been stated by anyone. You would have to be stupid beyond belief to think we don’t have muppets amongst us.
Sorry why use the term many vanners when these idiots are a tiny minority. Most of the ones I have seen doing this are full timers. They stand out for a reason, they are a tiny minority who WC.
As for changing my paragraph to make your point, what can I say.
I stand fully by what I posted, just as you do.
I promise I won’t take what you write, and alter it to make a point.
As for us spending less than day trippers where do you get this information from, can you provide evidence. I reckon when visiting places that we spend more than day trippers, but I can only speak for myself. But when I bought my Motorhome, I did not realise that I became morally bound to spend wads of cash wherever we visited. Do you reckon that car drivers are equally morally bound, or just ourselves. You really seem to have a very low opinion of those who WC. You seem far more supportive of those who take punitive actions against the vast majority who behave well when WC.

 

[Fisherman]

I bought a RADAR key from Amazon although I've never needed to use it yet.

I also only ever use the green chemicals.

On the occasions where I have had to empty a cassette into a normal toilet I always do it in three or four stages flushing in between, and obviously cleaning up as necessary afterwards.

It's not difficult.

It’s not difficult to ensure that when you plan a trip, you don’t need to do this in the first place. Some carry a spare cassette to avoid doing this. I have seen this done in toilets where signage asks us not to do this, I have never seen a sign on a toilet stating that this is allowed. Therefore I assume that they have simply not put up such a sign, but would prefer that we don’t do so.

 

[barryd]

Yes, it’s been witnessed. By me and by others. In the U.K. and abroad, it’s not restricted to here. Someone even did it in a car park in the Lake District and the pub closed the stopover.

This is partly the problem, that so many motorhomers want to deny there’s a problem. There is, albeit with a small minority.

Seriously? Someone emptied a cassette in a pub car park in the Lake District?

 

[Debroos]

Yes, it’s been witnessed. By me and by others. In the U.K. and abroad, it’s not restricted to here. Someone even did it in a car park in the Lake District and the pub closed the stopover.

This is partly the problem, that so many motorhomers want to deny there’s a problem. There is, albeit with a small minority.

I would really like to read up on this. Could you please send me a link to it? Thanks

 

[Fisherman]

I would really like to read up on this. Could you please send me a link to it? Thanks

Oh and while they’re at it, can they name the pub in the Lake District so I can give them a phone call to apologise, it was me, honest

 

[AndyWill64]

Obviously, common sense dictates that emptying cassettes in public places is wrong, but although there are bound to be some who just don't care, there will be others who get into a situation almost by accident and don't know what else to do.

And I wonder to what exent the dealers and companies that rent out motorhomes could alleviate some of the problem.

When I bought my first van I was shown how to control the heating, where to fill the fresh water and toilet chemicals, how to open and close the awning, etc. All important stuff. But I was left completely green as to how the lifestyle works, and no doubt we all go through a similar learning curve, so I thought it would be good if there was a standard leaflet or booklet on the basics that could given to all newbies.

 

[Fisherman]

Obviously, common sense dictates that emptying cassettes in public places is wrong, but although there are bound to be some who just don't care, there will be others who get into a situation almost by accident and don't know what else to do.

And I wonder to what exent the dealers and companies that rent out motorhomes could alleviate some of the problem.

When I bought my first van I was shown how to control the heating, where to fill the fresh water and toilet chemicals, how to open and close the awning, etc. All important stuff. But I was left completely green as to how the lifestyle works, and no doubt we all go through a similar learning curve, so I thought it would be good if there was a standard leaflet or booklet on the basics that could given to all newbies.

Well said Andy, and thanks for your post.
Yes ignorance can be an issue, and I can see why inexperienced WC reckon it’s ok to do this. And yes I have witnessed people who are desperate to get their cassette emptied. I have planned a four week trip around the north of Scotland in April/ may, and I know exactly were I will be emptying my cassette, and it won’t be in a public toilet. I even have plan Bs in case there are problems. But we really do need more elsan points in the U.K. thankfully up here in Scotland things have improved greatly in the past few years. In my experience many of those who find themselves desperate are from Europe, who were unaware just how unprepared we are. They don’t realise that things are different here. I once emptied a cassette for a young French couple when I was on the C&MC site in Morvich after they had been refused access by the warden. The warden was none to chuffed

 

[barryd]

Well said Andy, and thanks for your post.
Yes ignorance can be an issue, and I can see why inexperienced WC reckon it’s ok to do this. And yes I have witnessed people who are desperate to get their cassette emptied. I have planned a four week trip around the north of Scotland in April/ may, and I know exactly were I will be emptying my cassette, and it won’t be in a public toilet. I even have plan Bs in case there are problems. But we really do need more elsan points in the U.K. thankfully up here in Scotland things have improved greatly in the past few years. In my experience many of those who find themselves desperate are from Europe, who were unaware just how unprepared we are. They don’t realise that things are different here. I once emptied a cassette for a young French couple when I was on the C&MC site in Morvich after they had been refused access by the warden.

You can never really be in a situation where you are so desperate to empty your cassette you think its ok to empty it in a sand dune or lake district pub car park though can you? I still have my doubts that this has ever happened.

There will always be somewhere to empty it properly even if you have to drive ten miles to a campsite and book on it. There are networks of CL and CS sites for a kick off everywhere. Even a public toilet if done carefully shouldnt be that hard to find if you really cant find anywhere else. Its just lack of planning and being lazy / cheap if you find yourself in that situation.

 

[mistericeman]

thought it would be good if there was a standard leaflet or booklet on the basics that could given to all newbies.

Hopefully including simple pictures done in crayon ....

To be honest IF you think the average person that thinks it's OK to dump a full toilet casette anywhere else than an appropriate disposal spot,

Is going to bother reading a pamphlet let alone take notice of it

I'm afraid your likely to be disappointed .

 

[Fisherman]

Hopefully including simple pictures done in crayon ....

To be honest IF you think the average person that thinks it's OK to dump a full toilet casette anywhere else than an appropriate disposal spot,

Is going to bother reading a pamphlet let alone take notice of it

I'm afraid you’re likely to be disappointed .

I reckon understanding our etiquette can initially be a bit daunting.
I have been doing this WC for less years than yourself.
But I have learned our etiquette through experience, and I have made errors through simply not realising that what I did went outside our etiquette.
IE, when I first started WC I saw nout wrong with putting out a table and chairs.
After all I had done likewise when parking my car before I owned a Motorhome.
We do have a leaflet on here on our etiquette, initially I was unaware of this.
I reckon Andy makes a fair point, but I totally agree with you, how can anyone think it’s acceptable to enter a public toilet and to empty a cassette, yet some, even experienced WCs reckon it’s ok. Sorry if I have offended, but I strongly disagree.
Why not simply plan ahead, then there’s no need to do this.

 

[Rolyan57]

I bought a RADAR key from Amazon although I've never needed to use it yet.

I also only ever use the green chemicals.

On the occasions where I have had to empty a cassette into a normal toilet I always do it in three or four stages flushing in between, and obviously cleaning up as necessary afterwards.

It's not difficult.

The trouble is that not everyone is as careful as you.

Mess in the cubicle, blocked toilets, wrong chemicals etc. That’s what some do and they are the ones who cause us the problem.

 

[AndyWill64]

Hopefully including simple pictures done in crayon ....

To be honest IF you think the average person that thinks it's OK to dump a full toilet casette anywhere else than an appropriate disposal spot,

Is going to bother reading a pamphlet let alone take notice of it

I'm afraid your likely to be disappointed .

Absolutely, those that don't care won't read it, but that's no reason not to try to educate the others.

 

[Fisherman]

The trouble is that not everyone is as careful as you.

Mess in the cubicle, blocked toilets, wrong chemicals etc. That’s what some do and they are the ones who cause us the problem.

Even if you are careful it still looks bad, and is wrong in my honest opinion.

 

[Rolyan57]

Can you find even one post on here where this has ever been stated by anyone. You would have to be stupid beyond belief to think we don’t have muppets amongst us.
Sorry why use the term many vanners when these idiots are a tiny minority. Most of the ones I have seen doing this are full timers. They stand out for a reason, they are a tiny minority who WC.
As for changing my paragraph to make your point, what can I say.
I stand fully by what I posted, just as you do.
I promise I won’t take what you write, and alter it to make a point.
As for us spending less than day trippers where do you get this information from, can you provide evidence. I reckon when visiting places that we spend more than day trippers, but I can only speak for myself. But when I bought my Motorhome, I did not realise that I became morally bound to spend wads of cash wherever we visited. Do you reckon that car drivers are equally morally bound, or just ourselves. You really seem to have a very low opinion of those who WC. You seem far more supportive of those who take punitive actions against the vast majority who behave well when WC.

As I said really clearly, a few minutes research on some forums show how often some motorhomers deny it’s us. I’ve seen day trippers blamed, walkers, cyclists etc. So yes, some deny it’s us, even if you’ve never ever seen any post anywhere that does that (which frankly I don’t believe).

Re your comment about me writing many vanners, I very clearly wrote about the many vanners that do this (in relation to those staying weeks on end). You might choose to believe that they go out every day and spend as much as day trippers on their hols. I don’t agree and I’m not on my own.

 

[Rolyan57]

Even if you are careful it still looks bad, and is wrong in my honest opinion.

On this we agree. It’s wrong and I wouldn’t do it. It definitely looks bad as well as the potential for damage.

 

[mistericeman]

Absolutely, those that don't care won't read it, but that's no reason not to try to educate the others.

Good luck ....you'll need it .

40 years of 'wild camping' one way or another ...

Back of a old work van early on
To now a motorhome .

And in all that time I've NEVER had to empty a toilet in a car park/wild spot or even a public toilet .
Managed perfectly well with the Odd site/CL/CS etc for services ...

These recent converts and 'Van lifers' (that phrase makes my eyes itch )
Seem to often just not give a damn about anyone or anything else other than their own little sphere of concentrated entitlement .

And I'm afraid neither you or any pamphlet is going to change that .