Wintering in Portugal

Larnie

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Hi, a friend of mine spends 6 months in Portugal over the winter, he plans to go out in early October as he has the last few years. As it is before the brexit date on the 31st, can anyone foresee him having any problems with a no deal.
Thanks.
 
Larnie said:
Hi, a friend of mine spends 6 months in Portugal over the winter, he plans to go out in early October as he has the last few years. As it is before the brexit date on the 31st, can anyone foresee him having any problems with a no deal.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

We are heading for Spain on 1st October. If there is a no-deal Brexit on 31st, then the three month clock will start ticking. We are flying back for 3 weeks over Christmas, so if the worst happens we will have until 18th February before we have to leave the EU or be illegal immigrants. We will be going complete with International Driving Permits and back-up medical insurance ready to kick in on 31st because EHIC will disappear with Brexit (although there may be a grace period). We will also keep an eye on the vehicle insurance situation and if we need a green card will get one sent out straight away. I think that just about covers it - unless anyone else knows of something else.....
 
John H said:
If there is a no-deal Brexit on 31st, then the three month clock will start ticking. ..
Click to expand...

I don't really understand all the ins and outs but I am sure I heard/read that if there is no deal, there is no transition period. Is the three month clock a different thing?
 
Jo001 said:
I don't really understand all the ins and outs but I am sure I heard/read that if there is no deal, there is no transition period. Is the three month clock a different thing?
Click to expand...

Three months (90 days) is the amount of time citizens of 'third countries' are allowed to stay in the EU. We will be a third country once we leave - just like Australia or the United States. I believe it is actually 90 days in any 180 day period so, effectively, you can spend six months over there if you get your timings right. There are ways of staying longer with visas or residency but then it is more complicated than I understand!
 
No you can't spend six months as you imply.

It's a moving timescale so once you've spent your 90 days you have to leave the EU for a further 90 days before you can return.
 
***** said:
It is a rolling 90 days if you know what I mean
For example you could spend 60 days in Euroland, come home and return 60 days later and spend a further 60 days
By the time you get to the 30 day of your second holiday, you have now reached the 90 day in 180, but the first 30 days of your first holiday would come off your 90 day limit as you are now past the point that they would count in current 180 days
The rule is 90 days in 180 and not a 90 day break after reaching 180
That is how i read it!
A little thinking as not quite straight forward
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If you do at the start 30 uk +60 overseas +60 uk +30 overseas then new 180 period 30 overseas then 60 uk then 60 overseas then 30 uk and then new 180 period repeating first cycle then it may work.

But does the first 30 days in the UK count as part of the start of the first 180 day period, or does this countdown start when you first go overseas? You may need a short trip of a day or two to Calais at the beginning to start the 180 cycle.

And are you permitted to be overseas at the start of the overlap of the new 180 day cycle without getting some sort of acknowledgement on your biometric passport that a new rolling period has started?
 
It appears to be that at this moment the only thing you can count on with reasonable
certainty is that you'll be able to enter the EU for up to 90 days. Everything else at this
stage is speculation, best you can do is make provision for substituting alternative
provision for the privileges that will no longer exist, such as the EHIC, and as JohnH
lists.

Me, I'll just go for the usual +90days in mind and hope for a temporary reprieve/amnesty
on the no more than 90 day stipulation,
Trust me! they'll give those of us there at the time 14 days notice to remove ourselves forthwith.
But I won't be that surprised to get a fine!

After all we are supposed to register after 90 days even now, but this was mostly obeyed
in the breach rather than the observance. ! So many of us aren't abiding by the rules even now.
 
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daygoboy said:
It appears to be that at this moment the only thing you can count on with reasonable
certainty is that you'll be able to enter the EU for up to 90 days. Everything else at this
stage is speculation, best you can do is make provision for substituting alternative
provision for the privileges that will no longer exist, such as the EHIC, and as JohnH
lists.

Me, I'll just go for the usual +90days in mind and hope for a temporary reprieve/amnesty
on the no more than 90 day stipulation,
Trust me! they'll give those of us there at the time 14 days notice to remove ourselves forthwith.
But I won't be that surprised to get a fine!

After all we are supposed to register after 90 days even now, but this was mostly
observed in the breach ! So many of us aren't abiding by the rules even now.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can rely on 14 days notice. The big problem is not the fine (if any) but the fact that, after 90 days, you will not be insured. So, if you have an accident in your motorhome, your insurance company will not pay out - that could be very expensive if a thrid party is involved. Similarly, after 90 days from 31 October, any medical insurance (including EHIC if they allow a grace period) will be invalid. The Spanish/Portuguese authorities will not contact you to tell you this!

Further, if you ignore the 90 day rule and are lucky enough not to have an accident or get ill, then remember that, as from the end of December 2020 you will need to apply under the new ETIAS system for entry to the EU. If you have already broken the law by overstaying then there is a very good chance they won't issue you with permission. Thus, next year (and for as many years as they deem fit) you won't be able to go to the EU at all. It is just not worth trying to get round the system - and as was stated above, extension visas are difficult to get and not cheap.

PS the breach you refer to works for EU citizens but remember, we will not be EU citizens.
 
Jo001 said:
I don't really understand all the ins and outs but I am sure I heard/read that if there is no deal, there is no transition period. Is the three month clock a different thing?
Click to expand...

HI - yes, you are correct. If there is no deal, there is no transition period. The 3 month rule (90 days in any rolling period of 180) applies to all non-EU/Schengen citizens and would immediately apply to us in the event of a no-deal.
 
Of course I'm not relying on 14 days, or even the fine,
note the exclamation marks.'
I prefaced everything with the statement 'the only thing you can
reasonably count on is 90 days'. As for vehicle insurance I'll just
keep an ear to the ground, there will be a way around potential problems
possibly a phone call and a payment to get an insurance extension
to provide temporary cover, who knows. But there will be a way around
difficulties should they arise.
I'm not so sure that insurers will be able to easily opt out of their obligations in
any case, on policies taken out at the present time but happen to expire
after leaving the EU. So I for one would be ok for almost a year.

But I won't be taking any measures yet, I'll just plod on as before
until further notice, & based on actual facts as presented.. I'm certainly not going to
worry about what may or may not happen.
 
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Moped said:
If you do at the start 30 uk +60 overseas +60 uk +30 overseas then new 180 period 30 overseas then 60 uk then 60 overseas then 30 uk and then new 180 period repeating first cycle then it may work.

But does the first 30 days in the UK count as part of the start of the first 180 day period, or does this countdown start when you first go overseas? You may need a short trip of a day or two to Calais at the beginning to start the 180 cycle.

And are you permitted to be overseas at the start of the overlap of the new 180 day cycle without getting some sort of acknowledgement on your biometric passport that a new rolling period has started?
Click to expand...

There is no "new" 180 day period - it is a rolling period and the effect is that you cannot spend three months in the EU without then leaving the EU for another 3 months. Technically, you could spend one day in the EU, one day out and so on for ever but I don't think that pattern would be relevant to most of us!
 
daygoboy said:
Of course I'm not relying on 14 days, or even the fine,
note the exclamation marks.'
I prefaced everything with the statement 'the only thing you can
reasonably count on is 90 days'. As for vehicle insurance I'll just
keep an ear to the ground, there will be a way around potential problems
possibly a phone call and a payment to get an insurance extension
to provide temporary cover, who knows. But there will be a way around
difficulties should they arise.

But I won't be taking any measures yet, I'll just plod on as before
until further notice, & based on actual facts as presented.. I'm certainly not going to
worry about what may or may not happen.
Click to expand...

I think you miss the point as far as insurance goes. If you are in the EU illegally (as you would be after 90 days in any 180) then there is no way you can get an extension. Your insurance company will not insure you if you are breaking the law.

Similarly with medical cover.
 
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Larnie said:
Hi, a friend of mine spends 6 months in Portugal over the winter, he plans to go out in early October as he has the last few years. As it is before the brexit date on the 31st, can anyone foresee him having any problems with a no deal.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

I have been trying to find out from my boy what he thinks will happen he is in the Guardia Civil Trafico, Because I have a friend that comes over in September for 2
months traveling round Spain then leaves his motorhome on our land then fly's back for a month for work then comes back after Christmas and go's to Portugal for the winter and stays at our place down there, My boy said at the moment no one knows what will happen he said that they have been taking about is ticket machine giving out a ticket at the ports with a date and time on them these you must keep in the van under your tax disc on your windscreen. :mad1:
 
phillybarbour said:
Transition period highly likely in the event if no deal, but it’s not certain.
Click to expand...

The transition period that May negotiated is dependent on a deal. If there is no deal then there is nothing to transition to. Thus a transition period is highly unlikely in the event of no deal.
 
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