Some folks really don't help us do they ....

[Fisherman]

Brilliant. They did no wrong, but they need to stop doing it.

That applies to us to Mark.

Mark I wish like you I could head off to North Africa, Europe, and better places to WC. Places were putting out an awning would be incidental, nothing to report.

 

[maingate]

Ye I remember you going on about folk (tossers) putting out tables and chairs, and various other things which you reckoned was ruining our pastime. You reckoned we should keep a “low profile”

Seems strange that in your book putting out tables and chairs was destroying our pastime, but putting out an awning, windbreakers, on a public highway will do us no such harm.

As I have clearly stated I don’t reckon in a different country were people are more tolerant and better informed they have done anything wrong, but sadly we don’t live in France.

I thought one was innocent until proven guilty, as in the case presented here.

I believe I said a lot more than just putting out tables and chairs in the past. Maybe it was because the tables and chairs were there for a couple of weeks, not just for a few daylight hours.

Whatever I said, it certainly got your back up and I have never been forgiven for saying it.

 

[Fisherman]

I thought one was innocent until proven guilty, as in the case presented here.

I believe I said a lot more than just putting out tables and chairs in the past. Maybe it was because the tables and chairs were there for a couple of weeks, not just for a few daylight hours.

Whatever I said, it certainly got your back up and I have never been forgiven for saying it.

You are forgiven

And my back is doing just fine, many thanks for your concern.

Yes you did say much more, and there was never any allowance given for use during daylight hours only, simply a tosser was a tosser in your eyes.

I may be getting things wrong, but at least I am being consistently wrong.

 

[oppy]

It's strange y' know, but we were kicked out of "the friendly club" for objecting to being called FLT's, after asking what that meant and finding out that it was "Free Loading Tossers" and when I mentioned that being totally self contained we did not need to pay for services that we had no need of, but would if there was no alternative, the man in the big hat told me that we were no longer the type of folks that they wanted in their coven and terminated our membership, but to be fair, we did get our money back

 

[trevskoda]

It's strange y' know, but we were kicked out of "the friendly club" for objecting to being called FLT's, after asking what that meant and finding out that it was "Free Loading Tossers" and when I mentioned that being totally self contained we did not need to pay for services that we had no need of, but would if there was no alternative, the man in the big hat told me that we were no longer the type of folks that they wanted in their coven and terminated our membership, but to be fair, we did get our money back

More clues please im all ears oppy.

 

[n brown]

i'm not sure about assuming that locals will condemn a bit of camping ,most folk have enough to worry about . although that does seem to be a british trait . i only ever had a problem in this country in decades of wild camping . foreigners don't seem to have this fear of strangers mixed with a deep worry that someone might be having a better time , cheaper . case of the minority ruining things for the majority again .
i've lived on beaches and riverains ,sometimes for weeks ,sometimes months and got on great with locals ,even in France having the mayor showing me a better spot .
and above all i've always had a deep belief that people should be able , despite limited funds , to get a van and sling a mattress in it and take their family for an adventure

 

[Snapster]

….. . foreigners don't seem to have this fear of strangers mixed with a deep worry that someone might be having a better time , cheaper . case of the minority ruining things for the majority again .
…..

I think that sums up this thread and England in general. We live in France. If we saw this van here, no one would bat an eyelid, but I doubt it would happen when we have thousands of designated places to park, many for free.

 

[caledonia]

© @Wully I think...

And proper funny

I didn’t find it funny at all. I found it offensive as a lot on here have self built vans but it’s the big man’s opinion and he’s entitled to that. Doesn’t matter if it an auld shagger van with a mattress in the back or a £200k gin palace on wheels it’s someone’s means to a bit enjoyment and getting out there.

 

[Fisherman]

i'm not sure about assuming that locals will condemn a bit of camping ,most folk have enough to worry about . although that does seem to be a british trait . i only ever had a problem in this country in decades of wild camping . foreigners don't seem to have this fear of strangers mixed with a deep worry that someone might be having a better time , cheaper . case of the minority ruining things for the majority again .
i've lived on beaches and riverains ,sometimes for weeks ,sometimes months and got on great with locals ,even in France having the mayor showing me a better spot .
and above all i've always had a deep belief that people should be able , despite limited funds , to get a van and sling a mattress in it and take their family for an adventure

Well put Nigel, and believe it or not I agree.
But what I think is irrelevant , and yes we do live in a country were with regards to this issue the minority of nimbys do ruin things for the majority. There will be few communities were the majority give a hoot about what we do, it’s an active minority within most communities that create these issues. But take where this took place Balloch. Balloch falls within the protected area of Loch Lomond and the Trossachs, the only part of Scotland were from April to October camping is strictly forbidden. And rightly or wrongly it was this type of behaviour that led to this ban.

Just imagine what the land weeps FB group could do with this photo, or the local rag who just love to print nasty things about us. East Lothian council would use this type of photo to justify their behaviour towards us. I know it’s sad, I know this whole thread is sad, but sadly that’s the reality we are faced with. Sadly as I have posted we have lost pois up here with councils reacting to such behaviour, and that’s wrong. Dumfries and Galloway are erecting no overnight signs in ALL of their carparks due to this kind of thing, I started a thread on here regarding this.

Sadly we don’t live in France, or the many other countries who are more tolerant even welcoming of us, we live here. And it’s a real shame that a young couple who if only staying during the day are doing absolutely no harm should be the subject of such debate, it only serves to highlight how sad we are here on our little island. If you want to see how some will react take a look at this lot, according to them we are the route of all that’s wrong in their sad world.

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[maingate]

Well put Nigel, and believe it or not I agree.
But what I think is irrelevant , and yes we do live in a country were with regards to this issue the minority of nimbys do ruin things for the majority. There will be few communities were the majority give a hoot about what we do, it’s an active minority within most communities that create these issues. But take where this took place Balloch. Balloch falls within the protected area of Loch Lomond and the Trossachs, the only part of Scotland were from April to October camping is strictly forbidden. And rightly or wrongly it was this type of behaviour that led to this ban.

I would think it was the hordes of young single people who arrived in the area for a few days with a £20 Aldi tent and a boot full of booze. I cannot see any evidence in that photo of any chopped down trees, bonfires or human faeces. That is why I have not jumped to any conclsions.

 

[st3v3]

I didn’t find it funny at all. I found it offensive as a lot on here have self built vans but it’s the big man’s opinion and he’s entitled to that.

I read it as being built by a particular "type" of person. I'm pretty sure Wully doesn't think ill of all self builds. It was his phrasing I found funny.

it’s someone’s means to a bit enjoyment and getting out there.

We've got a self build, I quite agree with you.

 

[caledonia]

I remember way back when a certain Englishman who can’t be named on this forum was trying to force Highland Council to remove unenforceable signs from Highland lay-bys. I said then what I say now. We should keep our heads below the parapets and keep on keeping on dong what we do.
One day our hobby will be banned because a campaign group will have got a network of these aire things all over Scotland but they won’t be a fiver a night like people dreamed it will be like Findhorn for example 20quid to park in a carpark.

 

[Fisherman]

I would think it was the hordes of young single people who arrived in the area for a few days with a £20 Aldi tent and a boot full of booze. I cannot see any evidence in that photo of any chopped down trees, bonfires or human faeces. That is why I have not jumped to any conclsions.

Really is that what you reckon well that must correct then eh.
You certainly jumped to many conclusions in the past when referring to people as tossers at the drop of a hat, on the merest of evidence. You regularly condemned people on here for much smaller infringements, day or night. Possibly you have mellowed with age.

It was due to a cumulative of events, some similar to what you now reckon is acceptable practice after condemning it for years on here. Each and every event leading to what was eventually brought into law by the Scottish government. Yes some of the behaviour was appalling, far worse than what’s been reported here, and had been going on long before the advent of the land reform act of Scotland came into being. But some had stated that what the young couple were doing was not illegal, when in actual fact it was. Hence my reference to the LRA.

There are no such hordes of youngsters with Aldi tents in Dumfries and Galloway, yet they are erecting no overnight parking signs in all of their carparks this year. The same type of behaviour has led to us losing many spots, and normally on here the actions of those who create these bans are roundly condemned. You don’t need to chop down trees or leave Aldi tents behind to incur the wrath of some.

 

[caledonia]

I read it as being built by a particular "type" of person. I'm pretty sure Wully doesn't think ill of all self builds. It was his phrasing I found funny.



We've got a self build, I quite agree with you.

Totally agree and get Wullys humour and I’m sure he’ll get my attempt at humour

 

[Caz]

My Grandad's old Citroen car had rear doors that opened the opposite way to the front ones. When we went to the seaside for the day he opened both front and rear doors and put a blanket across the top so my Gran could have some shade to sit in whilst we picnicked.
The family in the photo were only there for a day out, not staying overnight. They need shade for the baby.
I really don't see what the fuss is about.

I understand what is being said about the perceptions of others but unless they see the family staying overnight I don't think they would go off ranting to Councillors, politicians or anyone else.

 

[n brown]

I read it as being built by a particular "type" of person. I'm pretty sure Wully doesn't think ill of all self builds. It was his phrasing I found funny.



We've got a self build, I quite agree with you.

made me chuckle , i can close my eyes and hear his dulcet tones [ like Kenneth Mac Kellar ]

 

[Fisherman]

I remember way back when a certain Englishman who can’t be named on this forum was trying to force Highland Council to remove unenforceable signs from Highland lay-bys. I said then what I say now. We should keep our heads below the parapets and keep on keeping on dong what we do.
One day our hobby will be banned because a campaign group will have got a network of these aire things all over Scotland but they won’t be a fiver a night like people dreamed it will be like Findhorn for example 20quid to park in a carpark.

Findhorn is not a carpark, cars are not allowed within the Aire Cal.
Car parks don't normally provide, Chemical waste, freshwater, and grey waste. Nor do they provide something we were talking about last week 6m fire gaps between vans. And its a mute point but its just gone up to £17, but nice try on the £20

They had two choices ban us or do what they did, its really that stark.
Due to its popularity as you no doubt are aware they had serious issues.
The cost of providing the Air was just over £150,000 and paid out of the funds of the local Findhorn trust.

Things have got whole lot worse since covid, and wether we like it or not there is a large shortfall in facilities being offered up there.
We would all love to go back to how things were before I started this pastime Cal.
I get your frustration, but with growing numbers of vans from all over the UK and Europe, not to mention the explosion of hired vans driven mainly by the inexperienced, something has to give. We can't put back the clock, but we can try and make the best of what's possible.
Anyway with your excellent knowledge of Scotland, you will never be forced into any Aires, you will always find a wee spot.

 

[alcam]

Dearie me 3 pages . They are parked for the day (not a week) with a young family .

 

[barryd]

Dearie me 3 pages . They are parked for the day (not a week) with a young family .

Yep. I started off thinking it was bad form but on reflection I think we are in danger of conforming just a bit too much especially as we now know they were only there for the day.

 

[trevskoda]

you will always find a wee spot.

That may be the problem.