yorkslass
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I'm saying that complaints about views being spoiled by motorhomes, are not answered by stopping overnight parking, when they can't be seen anyway.
Possible Permitted Overnight Parking in Whitby
- Thread starter maureenandtom
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yorkslass
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To be fair, i'm guessing that photo was taken at either regatta or folk week, both of which have always been busy and strangely enough, the abbey car park was always the place to park. Full circle?
antiqueman
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so now they want my money, I used to go to whitby often and spend lots in the pubs there was told by the council to go away or use a campsite, I did say to the council person will you run me back to the campsite after the pubs have closed, guess the answer. Anyway I banned myself from whitby, feel sorry for the pub landlords.
maureenandtom
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Hi Channa,
As you so often do, you reminded me of something I should have remembered myself. A couple of years ago Whitby Town Council passed a motion of no confidence in Scarborough Borough Council. I've looked up a Whitby Gazetter report at the time.
https://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/whexit-calls-after-town-council-no-confidence-vote-740779
It caused me to smile a little when I read it, but this is the result of genuine resentment in the town. There was an online public petition calling for the no confidence vote attracting 2,269 signatures but I've not been able to find the final results of the petition.
Following the vote there have been calls from the public for a Brexit -type independence dubbed “Whexit”.
The town council motion was carried at the monthly town council meeting held at Pannett Park, with the Scarborough governance of Whitby called into question.
We probably have more support in the town than we think we have. Perhaps 2.269 (at least) on our side versus the three against. Whexit!
undertaker
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I’ll start by declaring my hand on this, I have history of cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in the case of Whitby and surrounding areas under the control of Scarborough council I’ll make an exception. 
There is no doubt that we are in changed times. How many of us are currently wondering whether the special destinations which we personally cherish are under threat and perish the thought, destined to be now gone for ever. With this in mind shouldn’t we grasp every opportunity offered? Yes, the Whitby proposal isn’t ideal, perhaps the council has got more faces than the town hall clock, but it’s an encouraging signal. As someone suggested above most other tourist destinations will also be desperately looking for ways to bolster their economy, so perhaps the wider mood will change, therefore opening opportunities previously closed. This started me thinking what would change opinions about our community, we are after all, law abiding, friendly, clean and tidy pillars of society and most importantly for Whitby and all other destinations we do spend. Problem is, we are all under the radar, (some of us intentionally more than others I accept). Go into a shop, pub, restaurant what does the trader see, just a non local, ie tourist, 5 star hotel, b&b, day tripper, who knows? Possibly not a motorhomer because they don’t spend do they? At least that’s what we are told trader and council perception of us is. So here is my idea, many of us are happy to display a wildcamping / motorhomer sticker on our vans. What are the views regarding something similar when we are out and about bolstering the local economy? I’m thinking something like the little sticker you get when you donate to a charity flag day. Peel off identification backing on the Whitby Aire parking ticket? Or something generic like, motorhomer here to support your local economy. Then the business people could identify us as the free spending community that we are (tongue firmly in cheek here). So when councils are considering the value of welcoming us local traders can say “yes we do get motorhomer customers” (get us some more hopefully), rather than “no idea”.
My question is,
Would you be prepared to wear a discreet sticker identifying you as a motorhomer visiting to bolster the local economy?
There is no doubt that we are in changed times. How many of us are currently wondering whether the special destinations which we personally cherish are under threat and perish the thought, destined to be now gone for ever. With this in mind shouldn’t we grasp every opportunity offered? Yes, the Whitby proposal isn’t ideal, perhaps the council has got more faces than the town hall clock, but it’s an encouraging signal. As someone suggested above most other tourist destinations will also be desperately looking for ways to bolster their economy, so perhaps the wider mood will change, therefore opening opportunities previously closed. This started me thinking what would change opinions about our community, we are after all, law abiding, friendly, clean and tidy pillars of society and most importantly for Whitby and all other destinations we do spend. Problem is, we are all under the radar, (some of us intentionally more than others I accept). Go into a shop, pub, restaurant what does the trader see, just a non local, ie tourist, 5 star hotel, b&b, day tripper, who knows? Possibly not a motorhomer because they don’t spend do they? At least that’s what we are told trader and council perception of us is. So here is my idea, many of us are happy to display a wildcamping / motorhomer sticker on our vans. What are the views regarding something similar when we are out and about bolstering the local economy? I’m thinking something like the little sticker you get when you donate to a charity flag day. Peel off identification backing on the Whitby Aire parking ticket? Or something generic like, motorhomer here to support your local economy. Then the business people could identify us as the free spending community that we are (tongue firmly in cheek here). So when councils are considering the value of welcoming us local traders can say “yes we do get motorhomer customers” (get us some more hopefully), rather than “no idea”.
My question is,
Would you be prepared to wear a discreet sticker identifying you as a motorhomer visiting to bolster the local economy?
Fazerloz
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It doesn't really matter when the photo was taken, the fact is it ended up looking like that, there must be nigh on 100 vans in there if not more, Its nearly as bad as Honfleur for vans.
If i remember rightly it was even worse for the Goth weekend and shortly after that the clamp down started for the following season.barge1914
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Well here I go again, another letter, I hope it helps and I wont get castigated again for putting pen to paper...or finger to key.
(by the way, I regret the paragraph on fishing in a previous letter, it came from the original template letter and I neglected to delete it, I don't even think it appropriate or necessary myself).
Before I press the send button let me invite constructive comment, corrections, any useful facts or figures...
Dear Councillor Bastiman
Motorhome parking in Whitby
I write to you in your role as Conservative leader in Scarborough Council to offer congratulations and support in respect of the letter written by Sandra Turner as reported in North Yorks Enquirer June 17 2020 and wholeheartedly endorsed by local business interests in Whitby. This proposes provision of parking facilities in winter for motorhomes in Whitby.
I am a motorhomer, a retired architect, and member of a forum of responsible motorhome owners which includes members, largely retired, from many professions and walks of life. I and most of our members have been deliberately bypassing Whitby in recent years as a result of the councils hostile attitude towards motorhomers. It is a shame, I and others would like to visit.
However I have to say with regret that this proposal appears only to be a knee jerk reaction to the current devastating loss of tourist business in the town. A proper sustainable long term strategy is required that addresses the all year round demand for overnight stop facilities in England for the more than 250,000 UK motorhome owners and many thousands of visiting Europeans, not just in winter.
I have taken the liberty, in the hope that it might be helpful to you, of putting together below a brief summary of what I believe to be the current state of affairs concerning touring motorhomes in England. I am aware many involved in making decisions about facilities for motorhomers actually have very little knowledge of the issues that concern them.
I sincerely hope you will be able to make some progress with this issue as the situation in general is deteriorating at an increasing rate
Types of motorhome user
Motorhome users are by no means a homogenous group. Although dismissed as such by the uninformed, motorhomers are not gypsies, tinkers or new age travellers and should not be treated as such. Those groups have their own needs and issues that should be addressed quite separately.
The main categories are…
Families with children who spend an occasional one or two week holiday involving camping gear, barbecues, toys and children’s activities which need a safe and secure environment, along with full sanitary facilities all of which are best provided by campsites.
Weekenders taking a break who are largely self contained for a few days. They travel mostly in spring to autumn autumn. They want close access to outdoor activities, towns and villages. They frequently eat out and shop and are happy to pay for local services and restaurants provided there is available parking for motorhomes or access on foot.
Older people collectively account for the largest number of nights spent in motorhomes. Retired people are free to travel all year round, including winter and may take extended tours of weeks or months in duration. Their limited budgets are necessarily spread over long periods. They need to and willingly spend in local shops, restaurants and attractions but simply can’t afford to do so if they must spend £25 to £30 a night on campsites. The motorhome is an ideal way for older people to spend their last days visiting so many of those places they never had time or opportunity to see in their working lives. Many of these people have significant disabilities and medical issues that render a motorhome their ideal or only viable means of transport or holiday accommodation.
A smaller number of younger people seeking the experience of travelling, sometimes as a ‘year out’, often from abroad, usually travelling on limited budgets and who can only afford occasional use of campsites.
European motorhomers arrive in their thousands, mostly in holiday periods but with many retired people able to travel longer term and off season. Many arrive expecting to find facilities for motorhomes like at home, and are greatly disappointed when they find no motorhome stops or service facilities, and discover campsites solidly booked all summer. Often they can’t even find anywhere to park a motorhome to visit towns. I have personally spoken to quite a number in France, Germany and Italy who say that despite liking the country they would never return because of the lack of facilities and the general hostility of local authorities; albeit some have said they would be happy to revisit Scotland where they feel welcome if it didn’t mean travelling through England.
The nature of motorhome travel
The attraction of the motorhome is that it offers the opportunity of unscheduled exploration at home and abroad, and the opportunity to stop in wild remote places. The modern motorhome offers a self contained environment complete with on-board water, sanitation, and waste storage, and even solar power. Their basic need is for no more than somewhere to park, access to a water tap, a bin and waste disposal point once every 3-6 days.
A growing problem
There have been motorhomers quietly moving around for many years, parking innocuously in quiet corners, lay-bys and carparks troubling nobody and largely unnoticed and accepted. However in the last two decades numbers have increased enormously, a vigorous industry has burgeoned manufacturing and trading motorhomes, and more recently hire companies have sprung up releasing droves of inexperienced motorhomers onto the roads.
Behaviour of motorhomers.
There are a number of groups or forums to which a large proportion of regular motorhomers belong. These encourage a code of conduct which basically is:
Be quiet, discrete and courteous, avoid inconveniencing local residents.
Put nothing outside, take nothing but photos and memories, leave nothing behind.
Dispose of waste responsibly.
Where possible spend locally and support local businesses.
Motorhomers are frequently berated as a whole for what are the actions of a relatively tiny minority. I can say emphatically I have never discharged black waste inappropriately, left rubbish, invaded private land, or stayed close to or obstructed residential property, and would have strong words for those who do. Indeed, in common with many of my fellow motorhomers, I frequently pick up the rubbish left by car occupants in locations where I stay, and leave such facilities as I use in a far cleaner state than they were when I arrived.
Although I have never seen it personally it would be unrealistic to believe there doesn’t exist a minority whose behaviour causes concern. The release onto the road in recent years of a flood of inexperienced hirers without adequate instruction is something that may well need scrutiny. Nevertheless there is a well established principle in British jurisprudence that groups or categories of people cannot be penalised for the actions of a few.
The UK’s response to motorhomes
Unlike their counterparts abroad local authorities in the UK have reacted to motorhomers as a group with blatant hostility. ‘No camping’, ‘no overnight parking’ and other signs have proliferated, many illegal and unenforceable, others misusing powers under PSPOs and TROs intended for other purposes. Height barriers have sprung up making it even impossible even to park short term. Too many have simply tried to move the problem down the road creating a more intense problem in the next Borough. Left hands are out of co-ordination with right hands, Tourist organisations are encouraging visitors, Councils are driving them away.
Many of these measures by councils have been driven by urban myths and complaints manufactured by vested interests.
Campsite owners bewail the loss of trade. With due respect to them many would rather go elsewhere than pay for the large pitches, toilet blocks, play facilities, activity rooms, reception offices and maintenance staff appropriate to caravans and tents but that self contained motorhomes simply do not need or want.
Hoteliers and B&B proprietors object to loss of trade. There is no way motorhomers would want a hotel, that is trade they have already lost and will not see again. What their objections achieve is to deprive other businesses, restaurants, shops, pubs and attractions in their vicinity the trade that would otherwise come from motorhomers.
Many of the complaints by locals claimed by councils appear to be exaggerated or fictitious. Of the thousand alleged by the council at Whitby, for example, following a Public Request for Information in August 2018 only three could be substantiated and of them two appeared to derive from the same person.
Only a precious few authorities such as Canterbury, Fyfe, Fleetwood and St Annes have actually started to address the need to manage motorhome numbers in a enlightened, constructive and much appreciated manner that encourages motorhome tourists to visit their towns whilst managing numbers and providing appropriate facilities.
The two main UK caravan and camping clubs, historically dominated by caravaners and tenters, whilst welcoming subscriptions from motorhome members have doggedly resisted providing or supporting the case for basic sites and facilities suitable for motorhomes. Many campsites located to suit the need for people in cars are inconvenient for motorhome users who need to be able walk or cycle into towns or villages where motorhome parking is impractical. Most will not allow non-resident motorhomes to access dump stations or water.
Other nation’s response to motorhomes
Local Authorities, caravan and motorhome Clubs, and private interests throughout continental Europe (and even New Zealand, Australia, America and Canada) have responded by welcoming motorhomes and providing many tens of thousands of dedicated parking places for motorhomes (variously called Aires de Service, Aree di Sosta, Wohnmobile Stellplatz etc. according to country). These may range from places where motorhomes are simply tolerated, designated spaces in carparks, dedicated motorhome only parks, up to some like basic mini campsites. Some use overnight capacity of otherwise empty carparks to gain extra revenue from motorhomes.
Subject to type and quality, the degree to which it is desired to attract or limit visitors, and the popularity of the location, prices charged range normally from 5 to 15 euros, albeit many basic parking sites are free. Payment is usually by cash or card using automat or parking machine. Recognising that motorhomes do not need services every day, water and sanitation are normally separately charged. Sanitation is normally free to encourage proper disposal with a charge of 1 or 2 euros for fresh water. In respect of the increase in motorhome use many campsites now include a basic low cost overnight motorhome parking and service facility, encouraged by local authorities they also permit paid access to services by non-resident motorhomes.
In some countries, typically New Zealand and Scandinavia but also some in France, separate ‘dump stations’ are provided at garages, LA facilities, local sewage plants etc. to obviate the need for facilities at individual parking areas.
Generally it is made clear these locations are intended for self contained motorhomes with their own water and waste holding tanks, not caravans, tents or small campers. ‘Camping behaviour’ is forbidden including placing outside of chairs, tables, barbecues and other camping paraphernalia. Periods of stay are normally limited to 48 or 72 hours. I am not aware of any such provisions that have ever been overrun by ‘Travellers’.
Covid 19,…It can only get worse
Every year many thousands of motorhomers wanting to explore foreign parts, or simply like myself, to get away from a country where they feel so unwelcome escape abroad across the channel. Their numbers probably significantly outweigh the number of incoming European motorhomes. Thanks to the pandemic many of the Brits will be staying at home this year and much of next. One further impact of Covid is a massive increase reported by dealers in the last few weeks in motorhome sales. After all the motorhome is now the only available safe self-isolated form of transport available. Thus lots more new inexperienced motorhomers will be out on the road. Many campsites are already mostly fully booked for July and August, even though they are not even yet open. The problem gets ever bigger whilst properly thought through means to address it seem to be as far away as ever, and will remain so as long as the majority of local authorities continue to bury their heads in the sand.
Yours faithfully....
(by the way, I regret the paragraph on fishing in a previous letter, it came from the original template letter and I neglected to delete it, I don't even think it appropriate or necessary myself).
Before I press the send button let me invite constructive comment, corrections, any useful facts or figures...
Dear Councillor Bastiman
Motorhome parking in Whitby
I write to you in your role as Conservative leader in Scarborough Council to offer congratulations and support in respect of the letter written by Sandra Turner as reported in North Yorks Enquirer June 17 2020 and wholeheartedly endorsed by local business interests in Whitby. This proposes provision of parking facilities in winter for motorhomes in Whitby.
I am a motorhomer, a retired architect, and member of a forum of responsible motorhome owners which includes members, largely retired, from many professions and walks of life. I and most of our members have been deliberately bypassing Whitby in recent years as a result of the councils hostile attitude towards motorhomers. It is a shame, I and others would like to visit.
However I have to say with regret that this proposal appears only to be a knee jerk reaction to the current devastating loss of tourist business in the town. A proper sustainable long term strategy is required that addresses the all year round demand for overnight stop facilities in England for the more than 250,000 UK motorhome owners and many thousands of visiting Europeans, not just in winter.
I have taken the liberty, in the hope that it might be helpful to you, of putting together below a brief summary of what I believe to be the current state of affairs concerning touring motorhomes in England. I am aware many involved in making decisions about facilities for motorhomers actually have very little knowledge of the issues that concern them.
I sincerely hope you will be able to make some progress with this issue as the situation in general is deteriorating at an increasing rate
Types of motorhome user
Motorhome users are by no means a homogenous group. Although dismissed as such by the uninformed, motorhomers are not gypsies, tinkers or new age travellers and should not be treated as such. Those groups have their own needs and issues that should be addressed quite separately.
The main categories are…
Families with children who spend an occasional one or two week holiday involving camping gear, barbecues, toys and children’s activities which need a safe and secure environment, along with full sanitary facilities all of which are best provided by campsites.
Weekenders taking a break who are largely self contained for a few days. They travel mostly in spring to autumn autumn. They want close access to outdoor activities, towns and villages. They frequently eat out and shop and are happy to pay for local services and restaurants provided there is available parking for motorhomes or access on foot.
Older people collectively account for the largest number of nights spent in motorhomes. Retired people are free to travel all year round, including winter and may take extended tours of weeks or months in duration. Their limited budgets are necessarily spread over long periods. They need to and willingly spend in local shops, restaurants and attractions but simply can’t afford to do so if they must spend £25 to £30 a night on campsites. The motorhome is an ideal way for older people to spend their last days visiting so many of those places they never had time or opportunity to see in their working lives. Many of these people have significant disabilities and medical issues that render a motorhome their ideal or only viable means of transport or holiday accommodation.
A smaller number of younger people seeking the experience of travelling, sometimes as a ‘year out’, often from abroad, usually travelling on limited budgets and who can only afford occasional use of campsites.
European motorhomers arrive in their thousands, mostly in holiday periods but with many retired people able to travel longer term and off season. Many arrive expecting to find facilities for motorhomes like at home, and are greatly disappointed when they find no motorhome stops or service facilities, and discover campsites solidly booked all summer. Often they can’t even find anywhere to park a motorhome to visit towns. I have personally spoken to quite a number in France, Germany and Italy who say that despite liking the country they would never return because of the lack of facilities and the general hostility of local authorities; albeit some have said they would be happy to revisit Scotland where they feel welcome if it didn’t mean travelling through England.
The nature of motorhome travel
The attraction of the motorhome is that it offers the opportunity of unscheduled exploration at home and abroad, and the opportunity to stop in wild remote places. The modern motorhome offers a self contained environment complete with on-board water, sanitation, and waste storage, and even solar power. Their basic need is for no more than somewhere to park, access to a water tap, a bin and waste disposal point once every 3-6 days.
A growing problem
There have been motorhomers quietly moving around for many years, parking innocuously in quiet corners, lay-bys and carparks troubling nobody and largely unnoticed and accepted. However in the last two decades numbers have increased enormously, a vigorous industry has burgeoned manufacturing and trading motorhomes, and more recently hire companies have sprung up releasing droves of inexperienced motorhomers onto the roads.
Behaviour of motorhomers.
There are a number of groups or forums to which a large proportion of regular motorhomers belong. These encourage a code of conduct which basically is:
Be quiet, discrete and courteous, avoid inconveniencing local residents.
Put nothing outside, take nothing but photos and memories, leave nothing behind.
Dispose of waste responsibly.
Where possible spend locally and support local businesses.
Motorhomers are frequently berated as a whole for what are the actions of a relatively tiny minority. I can say emphatically I have never discharged black waste inappropriately, left rubbish, invaded private land, or stayed close to or obstructed residential property, and would have strong words for those who do. Indeed, in common with many of my fellow motorhomers, I frequently pick up the rubbish left by car occupants in locations where I stay, and leave such facilities as I use in a far cleaner state than they were when I arrived.
Although I have never seen it personally it would be unrealistic to believe there doesn’t exist a minority whose behaviour causes concern. The release onto the road in recent years of a flood of inexperienced hirers without adequate instruction is something that may well need scrutiny. Nevertheless there is a well established principle in British jurisprudence that groups or categories of people cannot be penalised for the actions of a few.
The UK’s response to motorhomes
Unlike their counterparts abroad local authorities in the UK have reacted to motorhomers as a group with blatant hostility. ‘No camping’, ‘no overnight parking’ and other signs have proliferated, many illegal and unenforceable, others misusing powers under PSPOs and TROs intended for other purposes. Height barriers have sprung up making it even impossible even to park short term. Too many have simply tried to move the problem down the road creating a more intense problem in the next Borough. Left hands are out of co-ordination with right hands, Tourist organisations are encouraging visitors, Councils are driving them away.
Many of these measures by councils have been driven by urban myths and complaints manufactured by vested interests.
Campsite owners bewail the loss of trade. With due respect to them many would rather go elsewhere than pay for the large pitches, toilet blocks, play facilities, activity rooms, reception offices and maintenance staff appropriate to caravans and tents but that self contained motorhomes simply do not need or want.
Hoteliers and B&B proprietors object to loss of trade. There is no way motorhomers would want a hotel, that is trade they have already lost and will not see again. What their objections achieve is to deprive other businesses, restaurants, shops, pubs and attractions in their vicinity the trade that would otherwise come from motorhomers.
Many of the complaints by locals claimed by councils appear to be exaggerated or fictitious. Of the thousand alleged by the council at Whitby, for example, following a Public Request for Information in August 2018 only three could be substantiated and of them two appeared to derive from the same person.
Only a precious few authorities such as Canterbury, Fyfe, Fleetwood and St Annes have actually started to address the need to manage motorhome numbers in a enlightened, constructive and much appreciated manner that encourages motorhome tourists to visit their towns whilst managing numbers and providing appropriate facilities.
The two main UK caravan and camping clubs, historically dominated by caravaners and tenters, whilst welcoming subscriptions from motorhome members have doggedly resisted providing or supporting the case for basic sites and facilities suitable for motorhomes. Many campsites located to suit the need for people in cars are inconvenient for motorhome users who need to be able walk or cycle into towns or villages where motorhome parking is impractical. Most will not allow non-resident motorhomes to access dump stations or water.
Other nation’s response to motorhomes
Local Authorities, caravan and motorhome Clubs, and private interests throughout continental Europe (and even New Zealand, Australia, America and Canada) have responded by welcoming motorhomes and providing many tens of thousands of dedicated parking places for motorhomes (variously called Aires de Service, Aree di Sosta, Wohnmobile Stellplatz etc. according to country). These may range from places where motorhomes are simply tolerated, designated spaces in carparks, dedicated motorhome only parks, up to some like basic mini campsites. Some use overnight capacity of otherwise empty carparks to gain extra revenue from motorhomes.
Subject to type and quality, the degree to which it is desired to attract or limit visitors, and the popularity of the location, prices charged range normally from 5 to 15 euros, albeit many basic parking sites are free. Payment is usually by cash or card using automat or parking machine. Recognising that motorhomes do not need services every day, water and sanitation are normally separately charged. Sanitation is normally free to encourage proper disposal with a charge of 1 or 2 euros for fresh water. In respect of the increase in motorhome use many campsites now include a basic low cost overnight motorhome parking and service facility, encouraged by local authorities they also permit paid access to services by non-resident motorhomes.
In some countries, typically New Zealand and Scandinavia but also some in France, separate ‘dump stations’ are provided at garages, LA facilities, local sewage plants etc. to obviate the need for facilities at individual parking areas.
Generally it is made clear these locations are intended for self contained motorhomes with their own water and waste holding tanks, not caravans, tents or small campers. ‘Camping behaviour’ is forbidden including placing outside of chairs, tables, barbecues and other camping paraphernalia. Periods of stay are normally limited to 48 or 72 hours. I am not aware of any such provisions that have ever been overrun by ‘Travellers’.
Covid 19,…It can only get worse
Every year many thousands of motorhomers wanting to explore foreign parts, or simply like myself, to get away from a country where they feel so unwelcome escape abroad across the channel. Their numbers probably significantly outweigh the number of incoming European motorhomes. Thanks to the pandemic many of the Brits will be staying at home this year and much of next. One further impact of Covid is a massive increase reported by dealers in the last few weeks in motorhome sales. After all the motorhome is now the only available safe self-isolated form of transport available. Thus lots more new inexperienced motorhomers will be out on the road. Many campsites are already mostly fully booked for July and August, even though they are not even yet open. The problem gets ever bigger whilst properly thought through means to address it seem to be as far away as ever, and will remain so as long as the majority of local authorities continue to bury their heads in the sand.
Yours faithfully....
antiquesam
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I would if it was like a "CARE" or "NHS" brooch, or that American thing about a stars and stripes badge.I’ll start by declaring my hand on this, I have history of cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in the case of Whitby and surrounding areas under the control of Scarborough council I’ll make an exception.
There is no doubt that we are in changed times. How many of us are currently wondering whether the special destinations which we personally cherish are under threat and perish the thought, destined to be now gone for ever. With this in mind shouldn’t we grasp every opportunity offered? Yes, the Whitby proposal isn’t ideal, perhaps the council has got more faces than the town hall clock, but it’s an encouraging signal. As someone suggested above most other tourist destinations will also be desperately looking for ways to bolster their economy, so perhaps the wider mood will change, therefore opening opportunities previously closed. This started me thinking what would change opinions about our community, we are after all, law abiding, friendly, clean and tidy pillars of society and most importantly for Whitby and all other destinations we do spend. Problem is, we are all under the radar, (some of us intentionally more than others I accept). Go into a shop, pub, restaurant what does the trader see, just a non local, ie tourist, 5 star hotel, b&b, day tripper, who knows? Possibly not a motorhomer because they don’t spend do they? At least that’s what we are told trader and council perception of us is. So here is my idea, many of us are happy to display a wildcamping / motorhomer sticker on our vans. What are the views regarding something similar when we are out and about bolstering the local economy? I’m thinking something like the little sticker you get when you donate to a charity flag day. Peel off identification backing on the Whitby Aire parking ticket? Or something generic like, motorhomer here to support your local economy. Then the business people could identify us as the free spending community that we are (tongue firmly in cheek here). So when councils are considering the value of welcoming us local traders can say “yes we do get motorhomer customers” (get us some more hopefully), rather than “no idea”.
My question is,
Would you be prepared to wear a discreet sticker identifying you as a motorhomer visiting to bolster the local economy?
maureenandtom
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Barge 1914. My own effort only said I supported the initiative About three lines. Your analysis is brilliant – reading it I'm reminded of the very few surveys of motorhomers I've seen. I loved the bit where you said we would have foreign holidaymakers going to Scotland if only they didn't have to travel through England first and throughout your document I like the humour and common sense.
Cllr Bastiman will be a busy man; if you can engage his interest at the start then he will likely pay attention all the way through.
I think your email could form the basis of an excellent document to be produced – pdf format – for forwarding to any council which presently bans motorhomes. Or even as a pdf pamphlet/booklet incorporating photographs.
I'd consider sending it to any Scarborough councillors you can identify who might be involved in decision making. Some at least will read it all the way through.
If you would like more information about council claims of residents' complaints and the the lack of council records – the NY Enquirer produced a full documentation of that particular incident. http://nyenquirer.uk/motorhome-madness/
The NY Enquirer is a Whitby based online newspaper but articles cover all North Yorkshire and beyond The actual complaints are printed there in full together with an analysis of the events.
This WC thread documents how the latest stringent prohibitions, two years ago, were introduced. https://wildcamping.co.uk/threads/whitby-parking-latest-update.73016/
I love it. Thank you.
Tom
Cllr Bastiman will be a busy man; if you can engage his interest at the start then he will likely pay attention all the way through.
I think your email could form the basis of an excellent document to be produced – pdf format – for forwarding to any council which presently bans motorhomes. Or even as a pdf pamphlet/booklet incorporating photographs.
I'd consider sending it to any Scarborough councillors you can identify who might be involved in decision making. Some at least will read it all the way through.
If you would like more information about council claims of residents' complaints and the the lack of council records – the NY Enquirer produced a full documentation of that particular incident. http://nyenquirer.uk/motorhome-madness/
The NY Enquirer is a Whitby based online newspaper but articles cover all North Yorkshire and beyond The actual complaints are printed there in full together with an analysis of the events.
This WC thread documents how the latest stringent prohibitions, two years ago, were introduced. https://wildcamping.co.uk/threads/whitby-parking-latest-update.73016/
I love it. Thank you.
Tom
runnach
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Tom perhaps you remember ? Albeit it never happened a few years ago in Scarborough itself there was a proposal in which the council engaged for a overnight parking arrangement in Seame. The reservation amongst campers as I recall was the proximity to attractions and facilities was too far and a genuine fear it gave the opportunity to ban motorhomes in parts of the town , as it transpired that has happened notably the harbour area and marine drive. Only sea life centre near scalby has remained constant the management enjoying the fact vans present in an evening and a deterrent to wrongdoers
Hence Scarborough Mbc are more aware of campers than perhaps we are crediting these observations don’t really apply in Whitby as sanctions already exist eg west cliff sea front towards Sandsend.
One other thought as a follow up to Fazerloz photo is that if vans are dispersed between overnight locations it dissolves visual presence which pacified also gives visitors more choice.
Hence Scarborough Mbc are more aware of campers than perhaps we are crediting these observations don’t really apply in Whitby as sanctions already exist eg west cliff sea front towards Sandsend.
One other thought as a follow up to Fazerloz photo is that if vans are dispersed between overnight locations it dissolves visual presence which pacified also gives visitors more choice.
maureenandtom
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Yes, I think I do. This formed part of a bigger plan, yes? I think the full council approved a total of five car parks in the Scarborough jurisddiction. It turned out that the cabinet holder, Cllr Penny Marsden (Ramsden?) refused to sign the authorisation because she believed it would be against planning policy. I think I remember that a substanitial number of motorhomers said they would refuse to pay the proposed £10 parking fee - which I think was maybe for overnight only and there might have been an additional charge for daytime use. Could possibly have approached a campsite fee.
Haven't we had fun with Scarborough over the years? I think that one was 2012 - where have the years gone?
runnach
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My memory is failing too I only remember seamer being proposed. It would be interesting this time of year as it is a destination (traditionally) for the travelling brethren after Appleby.
Who needs East Enders when we have good old Scarborough?
barge1914
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Thanks Tom for reminding me, I thought I had read those references before but couldn’t remember where.
Yes I hoped this might represent a start on a document that could be reused and developed for other locations and purposes, a work in progress I hope. I was hoping for some collaboration on this, but as you know getting motorhomers to work together on such things in the absence of any umbrella organisation is like herding cats and has defeated more dedicated souls than me!
Ian
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I think it is a sensible, thought provoking explanation of the position the majority of motorhomers find themselves in. Personally I think you have covered all the main points and wouldn’t want to offer any edits. The only danger is that if the text becomes too long, then it might lose its impact. As an afterthought, it might be useful to add a rider at the end to say we “this forum” etc would be happy to answer any questions/engage with developing ideas for parking provision, if you get my drift ........... Thank you for taking the time to put it together.
barge1914
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Thanks, your suggestion is good, but I deliberately refrained from naming the forum, as I do not feel entitled without endorsement to speak on behalf of the forum. Also, much as we cherish it I am not sure whether the name WILDcamping will strike up empathy with a Conservative Councillor...Motorhomer.com perhaps?
RichardHelen262
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I agree with not using the wild camping, but what about the sister site motorhomer ?
Obviously with admin permission
mickymost
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barge1914
well what can I say your letter above is well put together, covers all relevant points and as MaureenandTom suggested this letter of yours could be sent to every relevant Council in the Country.Now we have come through this Pandemic relating to COVID19 I feel things have to and will change.Many people are now buying Campervans and Motorhomes due to wanting self contained safe accommodation for their families.Not all have wads of cash to spend at £40 a night in a campsite.So the councils need to change their attitude and ways and need to welcome Motorhomers with open arms as Local Businesses will need the income.
So dont edit your letter too much and lets consider on this forum and get opinion if this could work all over the UK.Will councils get their heads out of the sand and get real and realise their areas need to tap into the money spending habits of new Campervan/Motorhomers and retired people who have plenty of time all year on their hands to spend spend spend and help All towns and tourists spots recover from losses due to CoronaVirus
well what can I say your letter above is well put together, covers all relevant points and as MaureenandTom suggested this letter of yours could be sent to every relevant Council in the Country.Now we have come through this Pandemic relating to COVID19 I feel things have to and will change.Many people are now buying Campervans and Motorhomes due to wanting self contained safe accommodation for their families.Not all have wads of cash to spend at £40 a night in a campsite.So the councils need to change their attitude and ways and need to welcome Motorhomers with open arms as Local Businesses will need the income.
So dont edit your letter too much and lets consider on this forum and get opinion if this could work all over the UK.Will councils get their heads out of the sand and get real and realise their areas need to tap into the money spending habits of new Campervan/Motorhomers and retired people who have plenty of time all year on their hands to spend spend spend and help All towns and tourists spots recover from losses due to CoronaVirus
maureenandtom
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I wouldn't like to burden you with too much information. This is not the first time Scarborough council has actually approved a number of car parks for overngiht parking. https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/news/aires-to-grace-council-car-parks gives a little information but it was a long process getting there and I'm not sure I stil lhave all the correspondence leading up to it.. Andrew Backhouse was the cabinet holder at SBC and we all thought it had been a done deal. Andrew declared an interest that he was manager of a caravan site at Burniston (?) and it seemed to me that he'd changed his mind because the initial proposals for banning motor homes had come from him but it turned out this had come in his other capacity as a councillor for N Yorks. That's possibly not as two faced as it sounds. N Yorks are responsble for on-street parking and at Scarborough his cabinet holding responsibilities were for off=street parking. So it's quite possible that he approved proposals for off-street parking while condemning on-street parking. Probably quite a reasonable position. But it didn't stop me disliking him.
It all came to nought because Andrew gave up his cabinet position and the incoming cabinet holder - Cllr Penny Marsden - disagreed making the excuse that probably the approval would fly in the face of planning policy. This was reported inthe local press but it was eight years ago and I've not been able to find the press reports - coming up as "page deleted". So, though approved by full council, it seems the Cabinet Holder has the power to regard the council decision not as a decision but as a recommendation. Which she chose not to accept.
If you have questions it's possible I have the answers but I'd not wish to give you stuff at random that's just a confusion. Best of luck.
barge1914
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Harking back to your previous mail, as you seem to have more local knowledge than I, do you know the names of any other councillors I could usefully copy this to?