Our cheap battery!

wildebus said:
OK. I will give you an real life example involving the popular Banner Bull Batteries vs the Batteries I just got in yesterday to put in my Motorhome - so putting my money where my mouth is ...
Key Features of the two batteries

Banner Bull 100Ah Battery
£120
100Ah @C20 Discharge Rate
24.5Kg
2 Year Warranty
Requires periodic maintanance (topping up of water)
Requires external venting
200 Cycles when taken down to 50% Discharge (so it is expected that you can take out 50Ah 200 times before the performance is notably reduced and likely needs replacing.


12V 100AH RITAR AGM LEAD CARBON ULTRA DEEP CYCLE BATTERY
£190
100Ah @C20 Discharge Rate
29Kg
5 Year Warranty
Maintenance Free
No venting required
3000 Cycles when taken down to 50% Discharge (so it is expected that you can take out 50Ah 3,000 times before the performance is notably reduced and likely needs replacing)

So why buy the more expensive battery?
Well, the warranty is twice as long. It requires no maintenance (so pretty well fit & forget) and you can take out 50Ah every day the year for over 8 years. Do that with the Banner Bull battery and you will run out of cycles within 7 months. And the more expensive battery will also not complain too much if you want to take 80Ah or even 90Ah out of the 100Ah battery and still give you nearly 10 times the cycle count the Banner Bull will taking just 50Ah out.

To me, paying an extra £70 for those benefits is a no-brainer.
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I was looking at Trojan batteries when the cheapo ones die on my Pilote. But seriously considering the agm carbon type after your recent post a week or so ago.
May go for the Leoch 130 or 115 amp type to get as many amps onboard as possible. Fortunately my onboard charger allows me to select, lead acid, lithium, agm and gel up to 250 amps so should be ok and as you know being a Victron expert my Victron solar controller charge voltages can be adjusted to suit different battery types.
 
Obanboy666 said:
I was looking at Trojan batteries when the cheapo ones die on my Pilote. But seriously considering the agm carbon type after your recent post a week or so ago.
May go for the Leoch 130 or 115 amp type to get as many amps onboard as possible. Fortunately my onboard charger allows me to select, lead acid, lithium, agm and gel up to 250 amps so should be ok and as you know being a Victron expert my Victron solar controller charge voltages can be adjusted to suit different battery types.
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The Trojans (T105s?) are good enough batteries but times have moved on, even in the world of Lead Acid batteries. Plus they need regular maintenance and for me, that makes them a non-starter as I know I will just forget to check (other people may well be more diligent than I am, of course).
You have a charging setup that will allow you to use just about anything on the market,so you have a free choice, limited just by space, budget and maybe weight.

PS. If you were to look at Lithium, you would really need to get a Battery Monitor (if you don't currently) as it is the only way to monitor a Lithium Battery (a Voltmeter will only tell you when the battery is virtually empty).
 
wildebus said:
An alternator is not a battery charger, it is a power supply.

And it depends if you want to settle for "better than nothing" doesn't it?
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every vehicle ive owned that had an alternator it was connected to the battery....no other way to charge battery....something keeps it charged ...must be the alternator ...thats surely the definition of a battery charger.

some of the plant theirs only an alternator, battery, starter motor and starter switch nowt else to supply power to except the battery
 
ricc said:
every vehicle ive owned that had an alternator it was connected to the battery....no other way to charge battery....something keeps it charged ...must be the alternator ...thats surely the definition of a battery charger.

some of the plant theirs only an alternator, battery, starter motor and starter switch nowt else to supply power to except the battery
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Which is why, to keep a Starter Battery in the best condition, it is best to connect an actual BATTERY CHARGER to it on a periodic basis.

Don't agree? No problem. Your choice.
 
wildebus said:
Which is why, to keep a Starter Battery in the best condition, it is best to connect an actual BATTERY CHARGER to it on a periodic basis.

Don't agree? No problem. Your choice.
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As much as I'd agree to a certain extent....
I reckon the bulk of vehicles never see a battery charger till the battery is completely knacked (at 2/3 years old ish)

And having punished 3 x 100ah cheap leisure batteries over 3/4 years in the transit with only the alternator/Durite VSR /solar panels and £20 pwm charge controller looking after Them barring the occasional treat to a charge/recondition in the depths of winter...

They are according to my work multimeter still sitting at 12.7v after being sat ignored off charge after a week or so.....

Obviously off load BUT I'm frankly surprised they aren't below reading now.
 
trevskoda said:
So how does a almost flat battery get charged by it.
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As I already said ...
Don't agree? No problem. Your choice.

I will (or rather I will give you an example of an explaination via a link) why they are different ...

Do You Need a Power Supply or a Battery Charger? – Your Source For Power!

apxonline.com apxonline.com


The terms “Power Supply” and “Battery Charger” are often used interchangeably, but they perform distinct functions.
A power supply is designed to supply a constant voltage to a load. As the load requirements change, it continues to supply a fixed DC level.

A true battery charger generally supplies a regulated current, first to charge the battery, and then switches to a regulated voltage mode. This is specifically required for Li-Ion chemistry where overcharging is not only damaging to the battery cells, but can also pose a possible fire hazard. A smart battery charger will not only never overcharge cells, but can also monitor battery temperature, switching off a fast charge when certain parameters are exceeded.

A power supply used as a charger cannot do this, and will continue to pump energy into a battery regardless of its condition; fully charged, battery fault, or shorted cells.
In order to achieve maximum battery service life, a properly designed charger should always be used to charge cells.

Does an Alternator best match the description of an Battery Charger or an Power Supply as described above?
Which one would be better for your battery?

Answers on a Postcard to wherever you want (not me, as I already know the answer to this particular one)
 
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Alt.
alt.png
 
wildebus said:
and what is this meant to explain? difference between an alternator and a battery? relevence?
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It says the alt charges the battery,yes i know only to about 90% and not as good as a smart charger, but for most this is all they have, i in winter use my onboard numax to top up and in summer my 200w solar though the voltronic to do the same,7 or so years on same batts and holding 12.7 after standing for 48 hrs, i do look at my batts and if required top up if required.
 
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wildebus said:
As I already said ...
Don't agree? No problem. Your choice.

I will (or rather I will give you an example of an explaination via a link) why they are different ...

Do You Need a Power Supply or a Battery Charger? – Your Source For Power!

apxonline.com apxonline.com


The terms “Power Supply” and “Battery Charger” are often used interchangeably, but they perform distinct functions.
A power supply is designed to supply a constant voltage to a load. As the load requirements change, it continues to supply a fixed DC level.

A true battery charger generally supplies a regulated current, first to charge the battery, and then switches to a regulated voltage mode. This is specifically required for Li-Ion chemistry where overcharging is not only damaging to the battery cells, but can also pose a possible fire hazard. A smart battery charger will not only never overcharge cells, but can also monitor battery temperature, switching off a fast charge when certain parameters are exceeded.

A power supply used as a charger cannot do this, and will continue to pump energy into a battery regardless of its condition; fully charged, battery fault, or shorted cells.
In order to achieve maximum battery service life, a properly designed charger should always be used to charge cells.

Does an Alternator best match the description of an Battery Charger or an Power Supply as described above?
Which one would be better for your battery?

Answers on a Postcard to wherever you want (not me, as I already know the answer to this particular one)
Click to expand...

A power supply can be used a charger?
 
SquirrellCook said:
Before investing in new batteries, if you have a simple split charge system buy something like this to put inline. (series connection) At least then your new batteries will be looked after. http://www.onboardenergydirect.co.u...mart-Battery-Charger-non-isolated.html#SID=13
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When I fitted my additional solar panel, motorhome came with a 120 watt factory fitted panel, i decided to bypass the electrobloc solar controller and fit a Victron mppt solar controller which just charges the habitation batteries. The electrobloc has a built in split charge system which to date, 6 months on from fitting the extra solar panel and Victron controller is keeping both the vehicle and hab batteries fully charged.
I also have a CTEK charger which I use every 4/5 months on the recondition programme to ensure the batteries are in top condition.
Im no expert on batteries but as I’ve said to date everything appears to be working fine.
 
wildebus said:
In order to achieve maximum battery service life, a properly designed charger should always be used to charge cells.
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I agree, but for a cheap battery who really cares too much! For a £65 battery is it really worth spending £200+ on a charger that may prolong it's life? We just bought this cheap battery to tide us over whilst assessing our power requirements and deciding if any upgrades are actually worthwhile for us. I expect this battery will maybe be good for several years with regular light use and solar/alt topping it up.
 
Phantom said:
I agree, but for a cheap battery who really cares too much! For a £65 battery is it really worth spending £200+ on a charger that may prolong it's life? We just bought this cheap battery to tide us over whilst assessing our power requirements and deciding if any upgrades are actually worthwhile for us. I expect the battery will maybe be good for several years with regular light use and solar/alt topping it up.
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5 stage float numax charger £50 or a chinese one for £12, fit it on board.
bat charger.png
numax 10a.png
 
mark61 said:
A power supply can be used a charger?
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yes, I‘m using a 30 amp power supply To provide power to my Sterling B2B charger when on hook up. I use a changeover switch to change the supply from the vehicle Battery when driving To the psu when on hook up, it works great.
 
Bigshug said:
yes, I‘m using a 30 amp power supply To provide power to my Sterling B2B charger when on hook up. I use a changeover switch to change the supply from the vehicle Battery when driving To the psu when on hook up, it works great.
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No. You are using a Power Supply as a pretend Alternator to drive a Battery Charger. If you were using it as a Charger, you would not have the B2B in between.
 
Phantom said:
I agree, but for a cheap battery who really cares too much! For a £65 battery is it really worth spending £200+ on a charger that may prolong it's life? We just bought this cheap battery to tide us over whilst assessing our power requirements and deciding if any upgrades are actually worthwhile for us. I expect this battery will maybe be good for several years with regular light use and solar/alt topping it up.
Click to expand...
Works for you and that is good.
doesn't change the facts.
 
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