New signs put up in Wales regarding motorhomes seen in Barmouth car park and spotted in a layby

[Fisherman]

I actually quite like putting out chairs, a table and a BBQ Bill, it's all part of the holiday. Of course I would not do this in a car park or where it would inconvenience anybody else.

I don't want to be alone all of the time, I like to meet up with a couple of friends and go to discrete spots where we can sit out, have a bit of food and a drink and leave no trace when we've gone.

As you say, different people have different perceptions on what wildcamping is, so in some respects we are a divided community?

So do we Rob, but not in Elie a busy coastal resort with limited parking spaces.
I see nothing wrong in having a table and chairs out, but as you say so long as it’s not annoying anyone. But what angered me at Elie was the fact that Fife are trying to accommodate us. They allow 7 vans to spend up to two nights there with designated parking bays. I was told by the warden at Craigmeade on the Sunday morning there were over 30. Sadly the barriers may come down, particularly on the busy months, and I would not blame them.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a divided community Rob, more like accepting that we are all different with different likes and dislikes. Tolerance and understanding is what’s required, not dictating what qualifies as WC.
As you say in another post we have had no visitors from Europe up here this year, that has offset those who would have been heading there themselves. But I do think that many who bought vans during Covid will be looking to sell them in the coming years. I reckon this will lead to a drop in price, and an increase in newer vans on the road, with many older vans heading for the scrapyard.
Take care Rob, enjoy Scotland whilst you can, I am starting a campaign to close the border from April to October, and my wee pal a Holyrood is backing me up till her nose bleeds

 

[Tookey]

So do we Rob, but not in Elie a busy coastal resort with limited parking spaces.
I see nothing wrong in having a table and chairs out, but as you say so long as it’s not annoying anyone. But what angered me at Elie was the fact that Fife are trying to accommodate us. They allow 7 vans to spend up to two nights there with designated parking bays. I was told by the warden at Craigmeade on the Sunday morning there were over 30. Sadly the barriers may come down, particularly on the busy months, and I would not blame them.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a divided community Rob, more like accepting that we are all different with different likes and dislikes. Tolerance and understanding is what’s required, not dictating what qualifies as WC.
As you say in another post we have had no visitors from Europe up here this year, that has offset those who would have been heading there themselves. But I do think that many who bought vans during Covid will be looking to sell them in the coming years. I reckon this will lead to a drop in price, and an increase in newer vans on the road, with many older vans heading for the scrapyard.
Take care Rob, enjoy Scotland whilst you can, I am starting a campaign to close the border from April to October, and my wee pal a Holyrood is backing me up till her nose bleeds View attachment 100796View attachment 100797

That Elie scenario you describe saddens me, Fife have done everything we could hope for and it is abused. If they reverse their decision in the future who could blame them

 

[Pedalman]

And if you have a cat or dog that requires a loo when wilding.View attachment 100711

It's the newspaper makes this cartoon funny.

 

[Pedalman]

View attachment 100700

It seems obvious that the campsite owners are sitting on the local council.

 

[Pedalman]

View attachment 100700

Looking at the images of the vehicles I shouldn't be affected by those restrictions . I don't have a tent, I don't have a large motorhome , and my camper van doesn't have a pop top.

 

[Tookey]

Looking at the images of the vehicles I shouldn't be affected by those restrictions . I don't have a tent, I don't have a large motorhome , and my camper van doesn't have a pop top.

Make sure you slow down for the human children crossing as well as the stick ones

 

[Pedalman]

Well said.

I believe that if there is a Law in place (or byelaw) then a specific reference to it must be included in the signage. Otherwise the sign itself is 'unlawful'.

You know the old joke ...........What is the difference between "unlawful" and "illegal" ? ........one is against the law and the other is a large poorly bird.

 

[gypo]

I wonder how long it will take for the small local shops etc that we spend our money in to realise and connect that when profits are down that it could be because their local councillor (who may just happen to have family or friends that own a camp site) has indirectly had a hand in it?
I think it’s fair to say that most on here are not going to suddenly use camp sites in these areas (at £25-£35 a night)

 

[Pedalman]

I wonder how long it will take for the small local shops etc that we spend our money in to realise and connect that when profits are down that it could be because their local councillor (who may just happen to have family or friends that own a camp site) has indirectly had a hand in it?
I think it’s fair to say that most on here are not going to suddenly use camp sites in these areas (at £25-£35 a night)

I thought £15 + £3 hook up a night on campsites was a lot. £35 a night just to park your MH is ridiculous especially when you don't need to use any of their toilet / shower facilities.

 

[mickymost]

What confuses me in all of this is who actually owns the roads and laybys? The sign says "Camping without the permission of the landowner is unlawful in Wales"

Most of Snowdonia is owned by farmers or the National Trust/National Parks Authority, but are the roads and laybys? I can fully understand not being allowed to park on farm/NT/NPA land but if the roads are public then they are public.

If the roads and laybys are also owned by these people, I fear we haven't a leg to stand on. Similarly with private car parks.

If the roads and lay-bys were owned by the landowners then how are the general public “allowed” to drive on them obviously they are owned by the government of the uk the same government who are happy to take our road tax yearly from us to enable us to be using these roads. And as far as I am aware my road tax covers me to drive over the whole of the UK roads.I know rules in Scotland are “different” but the Loch Lomond park authority had to quickly back track the other year when they tried to ban motorhomes from being on the lay-bys up there.,when they introduced permits to camp, on official national park land.

 

[Pedalman]

If the roads and lay-bys were owned by the landowners then how are the general public “allowed” to drive on them obviously they are owned by the government of the uk the same government who are happy to take our road tax yearly from us to enable us to be using these roads. And as far as I am aware my road tax covers me to drive over the whole of the UK roads.I know rules in Scotland are “different” but the Loch Lomond park authority had to quickly back track the other year when they tried to ban motorhomes from being on the lay-bys up there.,when they introduced permits to camp, on official national park land.

Do we not need to start a hard push back against these restrictions ? As you said we pay through our taxes for the upkeep of the roads , we pay vehicle excise duty ( normally called "road tax" but road tax was abolished in 1937 and replaced with 'Vehicle excise duty" ) If we don't push back against these parking bans eventually we will not be allowed to stop anywhere except in strictly designated areas. Is it time for a serious campaign to protect responsible MH & camper van users ?

 

[mistericeman]

Do we not need to start a hard push back against these restrictions ? As you said we pay through our taxes for the upkeep of the roads , we pay vehicle excise duty ( normally called "road tax" but road tax was abolished in 1937 and replaced with 'Vehicle excise duty" ) If we don't push back against these parking bans eventually we will not be allowed to stop anywhere except in strictly designated areas. Is it time for a serious campaign to protect responsible MH & camper van users ?

Sounds like a great idea....

What are you planning and where do we sign?

 

[Pedalman]

Sounds like a great idea....

What are you planning and where do we sign?

If everyone on this forum is up for it we could start by having a brainstorming session and putting ideas together. Do you have any ideas on how we could proceed ? You asked "where do we sign" Not sure about signing a petition would have enough leverage
The problem with us British is we traditionally can't be bothered to do anything about the things we complain about .
When all rights ( if we have any ) are whittled away it will be too late.
I have a suspicion many will agree , but ............................maybe the posts of restrictions are for information purposes only, I dunno. Maybe Im barking up the wrong tree.

 

[maureenandtom]

If the roads and lay-bys were owned by the landowners then how are the general public “allowed” to drive on them obviously they are owned by the government of the uk the same government who are happy to take our road tax yearly from us to enable us to be using these roads. And as far as I am aware my road tax covers me to drive over the whole of the UK roads.I know rules in Scotland are “different” but the Loch Lomond park authority had to quickly back track the other year when they tried to ban motorhomes from being on the lay-bys up there.,when they introduced permits to camp, on official national park land.

Who owns the roads. That's an absorbing subject and one that's almost impossible for me to get my head round. What I can gather is that the road surface is owned by the public. The land under the road is (the subsoil), probably, still the property of whoever owned it at the time the road was “made up and adopted as a highway”.

https://www.roads.org.uk/roadsfaq#11

Is there unused highway land next to your property - could you enclose the land into your property - Planning news - News & Views - Buckles Solicitors LLP

Find out if you could enclose the unused highway land next to your property, into your property

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It was brought forcibly to my attention when a local flood was caused by a blocked drain. Asked why the council hadn't cleaned the drain. It hadn't been cleaned for 17 years. The answer was:

I did some research what seems a lot of years ago into all those curves on roads which are left over when roads are straightened and it seemed to me that they were the safest places to park if you wanted to avoid local authority rules. Could be worth looking at – Google stuff like “Once a highway always a highway” A highway can only be stopped up, that is cease to be a highway, with a Magistrate's Order. So who then owns that cut off section of road? Now that's a really good question. My council didn't know who owned a town centre street - as above, So they said.

If you google phrases like "Once a Highway, always a highway" you can really start digging stuff up

 

[trevskoda]

Some parts of old roads here are offered to those whose land or home is adjacent to it for a pittance or free.

 

[Robmac]

The simple answer is that we simply don't know yet who owns the roads in the National Parks.

 

[yorkslass]

The simple answer is that we simply don't know yet who owns the roads in the National Parks.

Just had a look around, and it looks like highways control the road network.

 

[Nesting Zombie]

(Sigh)


I’m just very saddened that enjoyment in our chosen lifestyle is getting harder & HARDER to maintain without the need to almost constantly ‘Justify’ Or weave the grey areas between Law, Landowners & General Public & Local Businesses perception of rights.

Before being a Full Time Livaboard in Vehicles this last 10 years or so, I was a Full Time Livaboard on Boats for 17years & Gave THAT up because the lifestyle was becoming Too
Let’s say ‘Difficult’ to maintain
So, I wonder what’s next for me, Push Bike & Tent .
Hey actually these Electric bikes can Shift can’t they, Would cut down on my Old Age Shuffleing when out for Food.
‘The Cycling Zombie’

 

[ragittyrags]

book the pub stops and stay there...stay cheaply in rugby sites,farm shops and cafes...aires that are popping up....they,l soon get the picture when a family of 2 or a family of four arent stopping in the chippy,the shops or arcades for the kids,,,and next year when europe hopefully opens up there will be no one for them to ban..

 

[fergie1061]

If those signs are legal and appearing elsewhere in Wales, then I simply won't go there.

Im not 100% sure but don't they have to have the "code or bylaw" attached to be legal.