Is it the death knell for the combustion engine?

[GreggBear]

You must realise there's still large populations in both India and China that are striving to reach our standard of living,fossil fuels will play a big part in that for the foreseeable future,or would you prefer they maintain their peasant status? We (developed nation's) should be leading the way and striving to reach 0 emissions asap,so the technology and know how can be passed on to those in less fortunate positions.
It's not good enough to do nothing and argue that others aren't doing their bit when they're economically light years behind us,if we set the example for others to follow....they will follow.

Is this the same third world nation that has its own space programme, or the one that is currently building nuclear power stations?
If people in these countries are still " peasants" it's the fault of their govt not because of us. In reality I think the world would be a much better place if the entire human race still lived as "peasants" Global warming is made much worse by us evolving into what we are. Can't have one without the other I reckon....

 

[mark61]

Can you show me the post where I used the term denier, prior to my previous post.
post number please. I cannot find it.
Also show me where I stated I had researched to the nth degree.
post number please. I cannot find it.

As for posting cherry picked stats, pot and kettle come readily to mind.
This thread is full of them.
I posted that as a reply to someone who stated that only 3.2 % of scientists support global warming theories. Funny how you never latched on to that one Mark.

John Cook who founded "Skeptical Science" came up with the the " 97% of scientists believe in AGW." Researchers found there were 1944 scientific papers on the subject which he had read, only 64 supported his claim. That's 3.2%.

No chance, I'm not going through 28 pages of posts. Perhaps you can look again, just to be sure?

 

[Fisherman]

No chance, I'm not going through 28 pages of posts. Perhaps you can look again, just to be sure?

Of perhaps you should check your facts before dishing out accusations Mark.
I did your work for you earlier.

 

[Fazerloz]

At least our MP's are looking to make the moral move. Not a bad pension pot for a bunch of non-producers.

Midlothian MP joins campaign to remove pension fund’s fossil fuel investment

Midlothian MP Owen Thompson has become the latest Scottish MP adding their support for fossil fuel divestment.

www.midlothianadvertiser.co.uk

Nice moral stance. Just to open up another can of worms. Should Scotland ever get another referendum and vote for independence and get control of the oil fields would they close the oil fields and lose all revenue from them and supporting industries or be a bunch of hypocrites and say they need the money, if immediate action is required on GW. After all immediate action is immediate action not something to do just when its convenient. Some alarmists say we only have 12 years to sort all this out. Depending who or what you believe that is.

 

[Asterix]

Is this the same third world nation that has its own space programme, or the one that is currently building nuclear power stations?
If people in these countries are still " peasants" it's the fault of their govt not because of us. In reality I think the world would be a much better place if the entire human race still lived as "peasants" Global warming is made much worse by us evolving into what we are. Can't have one without the other I reckon....

China has pulled more people out of poverty than any other nation on the planet...ever. Are you trying to say they aren't entitled to keep up with the rest of the world in certain areas? Look at the money they've spent in other countries with their Belt and Road Initiatives,admittedly much of it for political purposes but the effect has been to pull other nations out of poverty and provide them with infrastructure for the future,rail links,dams,roads etc
Should the UK stop military spending or space research to benefit the new poverty class that's been created in our cities?

 

[Fazerloz]

California and other states have adopted many green policies.
As for the Americans all driving about in gas guzzlers, simply not true.
Many now drive mid range astra type cars, and you see loads of minis on their roads now. I have even seen smart cars. 40 years ago when petrol was 30 cents a gallon times were different.

Look at the units sold.
It could be a while before they give up their trucks. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g27041933/best-selling-cars-2019/?slide=1

 

[Fisherman]

Look at the units sold.
It could be a while before they give up their trucks. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g27041933/best-selling-cars-2019/?slide=1

Faze there are some around yes.
All I stated was 40 years ago you would never have seen minis and smart cars in the US. Mid range cars are now the most popular. But this has nothing to do with their concerns for the planet. It’s their pockets at $2.60 a gallon they reckon that’s expensive. I told a Floridian that we pay about $10 a gallon here, he was shocked and said

”how do you live man, how do you live”

 

[Fazerloz]

California and other states have adopted many green policies.
As for the Americans all driving about in gas guzzlers, simply not true.
Many now drive mid range astra type cars, and you see loads of minis on their roads now. I have even seen smart cars. 40 years ago when petrol was 30 cents a gallon times were different.

I like cherry picking too . it seems to be the way to go. you can't have seen many Smart cars as Mercedes don't sell them in the USA any more as sales were that abysmal.

 

[Fisherman]

I like cherry picking too . it seems to be the way to go. you can't have seen many Smart cars as Mercedes don't sell them in the USA any more as sales were that abysmal.

I only saw a handful in Naples Florida faze.
They looked silly on their roads.
we visited a campsite in a county park just to look at the RVs.
We were invited into one for a look, and the guy told me he gets 4mpg.
He paid $235,000 for it after retiring from the fire service.
Him and his wife had came down from New York and they were spending
two years touring.

 

[Fazerloz]

Faze there are some around yes.
All I stated was 40 years ago you would never have seen minis and smart cars in the US. Mid range cars are now the most popular. But this has nothing to do with their concerns for the planet. It’s their pockets at $2.60 a gallon they reckon that’s expensive. I told a Floridian that we pay about $10 a gallon here, he was shocked and said

”how do you live man, how do you live”

Mid range cars are not the most popular by a long shot.
In 2019, some 4.7 million automobiles, about 12.2 million light trucks, and some 529,500 heavy duty trucks were sold to customers in the USA. Overall, the USA. auto industry sold about 17 million motor vehicles in 2019.14 Jan 2020

 

[Fisherman]

Mid range cars are not the most popular by a long shot.
In 2019, some 4.7 million automobiles, about 12.2 million light trucks, and some 529,500 heavy duty trucks were sold to customers in the USA. Overall, the USA. auto industry sold about 17 million motor vehicles in 2019.14 Jan 2020

Faze I am merely giving you an observation of what I saw in Florida.
I did not carry out a survey, or check out google.
My original post stands, Americans drive smaller cars than they did 40 years ago when petrol was 30C a gallon.
Clearly at 16 tons per capita against our 6 tons, Americans are still much heavier fossil fuel users than anyone else on the planet.

 

[Fazerloz]

Faze I am merely giving you an observation of what I saw in Florida.
I did not carry out a survey, or check out google.
My original post stands, Americans drive smaller cars than they did 40 years ago when petrol was 30C a gallon.
Clearly at 16 tons per capita against our 6 tons, Americans are much heavier fossil fuel users than anyone else on the planet.

$1.19 US gallon, In 1980. not 30c . Mid range cars are now the most popular. Is a statement of fact not a observation.

 

[Fisherman]

OK I was there in 1973 47 years ago go do your figures for 1973.

I know for a fact they were under 50c, I thought about 30c

My comments relate to Florida, were many cars are hired by tourists from within and outside the US.

 

[runnach]

The us market and uk markets are totally different in how they operate it is difficult to compare apples with apples,what is more interesting is the methodology of how the cars are retailed. The obvious example is jeep the grand Cherokee alone sells 247000 units the total sales in the uk which I suspect includes the Chrysler and dodge brand amounts to 6150 units and don’t forget perhaps 10% are dealer self registrations as demonstrators

The qualification process in the states is totally different credit ratings determining finance rates tailored to each indidual, and personal contract purchases are big business in the us and where it originated.from experience the may have mid sized cars in the Us , but he Chrysler neon,Sebring,pt cruiser are all awful on fuel economy something the Americans seem to care little about considering amongst the big sellers the thirsty models still make up a chunk ....

California was one of the first states to introduce cat converters the benefit they had and is common practice the non cat models palmed off to other states

 

[Fazerloz]

OK I was there in 1973 47 years ago go do your figures for 1973.

I know for a fact they were under 50c, I thought about 30c

My comments relate to Florida, were many cars are hired by tourists from within and outside the US.

You are pretty much bob on with that. 1973 $0.39

 

[Fisherman]

You are pretty much bob on with that. 1973 $0.39

Right Faze it’s google time.

Did some reading and up till 2008 small cars were becoming more popular in the states. But from then onwards they have started buying larger SUV types again.
Most Floridians tend to drive white cars to try and deflect the heat, and convertibles are popular. Possibly Florida is not a fair reflection of what’s going on throughout the states, I don’t know.

 

[Minisorella]

I'd go along with your point about smaller cars in America Fisherman. I lived in Maryland, close to DC, for 3 years back in the 80s when my husband's job saw him posted out there. Both fuel and cars were really cheap at that time and we bought 2 cars there... one fairly ordinary but considered 'compact' 2ltr saloon car, brand new for my husband's commute and an old Chevvy Caprice Classic stationwagon for me to ferry the kids and friends around and for longer road trips as a family. The Caprice was a 5.7ltr 8-cylinder engine with three rows of seats and the suspension of a comfy sofa! It was huge and very green (as in colour!), so was christened Godzilla! During the 3 years we lived there, most of the families in our fairly representative, middle class-ish, residential neighbourhood had a similar setup to us with a huge family vehicle and a smaller commute one. Imports were obviously around but the vast majority of the cars on the road seemed to be US brands and you rarely saw a car as small as, say, a Golf. During many subsequent visits back to my old neighbourhood I've seen things change a lot. Fuel costs have rocketed, although we'd obviously still love their prices! Most of my friends now drive mid-size European or Japanese cars and there are lots of 4x4s and crossovers... but you rarely see any big old gas-guzzlers like Godzilla any more. God I loved that old car!

 

[Fazerloz]

Some info here for anyone interested in eCar.

http://mail.regit.cars/public/read_message.jsp;jsessionid=0;apw68?sigreq=-1789638740

Link above issue, try this one https://www.regit.cars/car-news/drivers-flock-to-electric-cars-in-2020-2021_72700

Explaining Electric Cars - Should I Buy an EV and Will It Save Me Money?

Electric cars do make sense - here's all you need to know

www.regit.cars

It goes through loads of facts and figures and never answers the final question. Will it save me money. ?
The final paragraph copied below, just leaves the answer hanging................I dont know about anyone else but this reads to me like . No not yet, but we don't actually say it.......

However, all this needs to be balanced by the higher purchase costs. Electric cars are still more expensive than an equivalent petrol or diesel model, although the gap is closing, and depreciation tends to be higher as buyers are concerned by batteries that may have degraded. This means that monthly payments also tend to be higher on PCP deals, although leasing deals are very competitive as the cars will reach the end of their term well before any battery issues rear their heads.

It’s also worth noting that while taxation for both private and company car drivers is low now, it might not remain that way in the long term.

 

[Fisherman]

I'd go along with your point about smaller cars in America Fisherman. I lived in Maryland, close to DC, for 3 years back in the 80s when my husband's job saw him posted out there. Both fuel and cars were really cheap at that time and we bought 2 cars there... one fairly ordinary but considered 'compact' 2ltr saloon car, brand new for my husband's commute and an old Chevvy Caprice Classic stationwagon for me to ferry the kids and friends around and for longer road trips as a family. The Caprice was a 5.7ltr 8-cylinder engine with three rows of seats and the suspension of a comfy sofa! It was huge and very green (as in colour!), so was christened Godzilla! During the 3 years we lived there, most of the families in our fairly representative, middle class-ish, residential neighbourhood had a similar setup to us with a huge family vehicle and a smaller commute one. Imports were obviously around but the vast majority of the cars on the road seemed to be US brands and you rarely saw a car as small as, say, a Golf. During many subsequent visits back to my old neighbourhood I've seen things change a lot. Fuel costs have rocketed, although we'd obviously still love their prices! Most of my friends now drive mid-size European or Japanese cars and there are lots of 4x4s and crossovers... but you rarely see any big old gas-guzzlers like Godzilla any more. God I loved that old car!

Yes Japanese cars are very popular in the states.
Must have been great living in DC.
We spent a week there and never got everything done.
I suppose that’s an excuse to go back.
The museums were fantastic and free (my favourite word being a scot )
Apart from the national geographic which was amazing.
We had booked a tour of the Whitehouse but they cancelled it the day before

 

[Fazerloz]

I'd go along with your point about smaller cars in America Fisherman. I lived in Maryland, close to DC, for 3 years back in the 80s when my husband's job saw him posted out there. Both fuel and cars were really cheap at that time and we bought 2 cars there... one fairly ordinary but considered 'compact' 2ltr saloon car, brand new for my husband's commute and an old Chevvy Caprice Classic stationwagon for me to ferry the kids and friends around and for longer road trips as a family. The Caprice was a 5.7ltr 8-cylinder engine with three rows of seats and the suspension of a comfy sofa! It was huge and very green (as in colour!), so was christened Godzilla! During the 3 years we lived there, most of the families in our fairly representative, middle class-ish, residential neighbourhood had a similar setup to us with a huge family vehicle and a smaller commute one. Imports were obviously around but the vast majority of the cars on the road seemed to be US brands and you rarely saw a car as small as, say, a Golf. During many subsequent visits back to my old neighbourhood I've seen things change a lot. Fuel costs have rocketed, although we'd obviously still love their prices! Most of my friends now drive mid-size European or Japanese cars and there are lots of 4x4s and crossovers... but you rarely see any big old gas-guzzlers like Godzilla any more. God I loved that old car!

Just like you rarely see 40 odd year old cars on the road over here, but it doesn't alter the fact more full size pickups are sold annually in the states than cars.