Is it the death knell for the combustion engine?

[in h]

LPG is another fossel fuel. Expect it to go too.

It is a fossil fuel, but it is a clean fossil fuel. Unfortunately there's lots of confusion between the difference. That's why diesel was encouraged as the greenest fuel and is now being discouraged as a dirty fuel. It's still greener. Hydrogen, created from renewable, electricity is clear and green. However, the tyres of vehicles burning it won't be clean. The factories making them won't be green.

 

[Andrew]

It is a fossil fuel, but it is a clean fossil fuel. Unfortunately there's lots of confusion between the difference. That's why diesel was encouraged as the greenest fuel and is now being discouraged as a dirty fuel. It's still greener.

A typical LPG conversion has lower NOx and CO levels then petrol and diesel but the same CO2 level as diesel. So depends what you call 'dirty'.

 

[2cv]

A typical LPG conversion has lower NOx and CO levels then petrol and diesel but the same CO2 level as diesel. So depends what you call 'dirty'.

I don’t know where those figures came from, but this article certainly does not agree with them.

 

[Deleted member 12839]

Check the carbon footprint for motorhome and airline travel.

For a motorhome to Alicante and back from Birmingham = just about 0.4 tonne total for the 1200 mile round trip and several months in Spain.

For airplane travel for 2 people for the same return trip = 1 tonne total and 1 or 2 weeks in Spain.

Maybe this point should be made to the government by the various motorhome interest groups?

A good point, we appear to be looked upon as a pest, nuisance. We should get all the clubs to put this to the government

 

[in h]

A typical LPG conversion has lower NOx and CO levels then petrol and diesel but the same CO2 level as diesel. So depends what you call 'dirty'.

By dirty, I mean particulates and NOx, by green I mean low CO2. CO shouldn't be a factor nowadays, no matter what the fuel.

 

[izwozral]

This will be fun when we all have our electric vehicles, stop start, stop start, stop start, sto.....................................

 

[Jayg]

Things to read!

‘The only uncertainty is how long we’ll last’: a worst case scenario for the climate in 2050

In their new book, the architects of the Paris climate accords, Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett-Carnac, lay out radical but hopeful alternatives for the future of humanity

www.theguardian.com

‘Air is cleaner than before the Industrial Revolution’: a best case scenario for the climate in 2050

The best case scenario for 2050: an extract from The Future We Choose, a new book by the architects of the Paris climate accords

www.theguardian.com

Don’t worry only short articles!

What do you think?

 

[davef]

Things to read!

‘The only uncertainty is how long we’ll last’: a worst case scenario for the climate in 2050

In their new book, the architects of the Paris climate accords, Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett-Carnac, lay out radical but hopeful alternatives for the future of humanity

www.theguardian.com

‘Air is cleaner than before the Industrial Revolution’: a best case scenario for the climate in 2050

The best case scenario for 2050: an extract from The Future We Choose, a new book by the architects of the Paris climate accords

www.theguardian.com

Don’t worry only short articles!

What do you think?

I think both articles are completely stupid and typical of the Guardian's alarmist brainwashing.
The reality is that there has been an estimated 0.8*C rise in the earth's temperature since 1880 at the end of the mini ice age - for which we should be eternally grateful.
Plant growth is increasingly greening the planet due to the increase in CO2 as admitted by NASA. Pre-industrial levels of 280 ppm amounted to a severe CO2 famine.
The only correlation between CO2 and temperature has been shown by ice core sampling which shows that increases of temperature appear to cause an increase in CO2 after a delay of about 800 years. This is due to the slow subsequent warming of the seas which causes out-gassing of the dissolved CO2.
Tidal gauges since medieval times have shown sea level rising at the rate of about 12" per century, more recently this has slowed to about 4" per century. ( This may partly be because so much fresh water is being held back by giant hydro schemes and reservoirs.)
We are currently in an ice age - an inter-glacial period - when glaciers melt and it gets a bit warmer. We should be fearful of any cooling.
I have 16 large solar panels on my workshop roof and a 5Kw wind turbine on a 40ft tower. From personal experience I can say they produce intermittent and unpredictable power, which at the moment must be next to useless for the national grid which requires energy generation to suit demand. The turbine also suffered main bearing failure after 10 years operation - half its design life - which caused extensive damage and required a major re-build. This seems quite common even in large commercial units - they are high maintenance, and will probably have short lives.
Planting of trees is an excellent idea to benefit future generations. I planted 2,500 trees on my land some 35 years ago - it already feels like a true wood - and am currently getting all my firewood from wind blown or diseased trees. Worked sensibly it should give the occupier here firewood and some good timber indefinitely.

 

[2cv]

Interesting to see how this vessel which once was employed in extracting fossil fuels is to be adapted to extract battery raw materials. Link

 

[Jayg]

Just to note, both articles came from books written.

Yes greater co2 increases plant growth, you should see my weed growth in the summer.

My home produces the same about power it uses with 3.75kw of solar power, but we produce the most of our energy from the spring to the autumn equinox. Not when we need it most.

I cannot see any downsides from adopting a clean energy society. Can you?

 

[Nabsim]

This will be fun when we all have our electric vehicles, stop start, stop start, stop start, sto.....................................View attachment 77086

Especially as stop start switches itself off when power levels drop lol

 

[Asterix]

31 pages later and we still don't have the answer to the OPs question "is it the death knell for the combustion engine"?

Yes

 

[Tapfitter]

If I ever buy an electric car I will make sure the boot is big enough to store a diesel generator (and cans) so I can charge the car on the move and travel long distances without having to stop!

 

[trevskoda]

If I ever buy an electric car I will make sure the boot is big enough to store a diesel generator (and cans) so I can charge the car on the move and travel long distances without having to stop!

.
You would require a gen about six times the size of the car

 

[in h]

.
You would require a gen about six times the size of the car

No you wouldn't. A large suitcase gennie will give up to 3KW which is ample to do a slow charge. If you can leave it running a few hours, that'll do. However, generators are heavy on fuel. Might be cheaper to find somewhere to plug in.

 

[GreggBear]

No you wouldn't. A large suitcase gennie will give up to 3KW which is ample to do a slow charge. If you can leave it running a few hours, that'll do. However, generators are heavy on fuel. Might be cheaper to find somewhere to plug in.

Or alternatively, might just be easier to get a proper car with a proper diesel engine.....

 

[Jayg]

If you can buy the fuel!
And afford it?
Seriously don’t understand the problem.
What loss do we have in the adaptation of Cardon neutral fuels?
Looking back in history.
Canals, bugger for the pack horses.
Trains, bugger for the canals.
Lorries, bugger for the trains.
We adapt. Old methods die out, and leave there legacies.
What am I not seeing?

 

[davef]

Just to note, both articles came from books written.

Yes greater co2 increases plant growth, you should see my weed growth in the summer.

My home produces the same about power it uses with 3.75kw of solar power, but we produce the most of our energy from the spring to the autumn equinox. Not when we need it most.

I cannot see any downsides from adopting a clean energy society. Can you?

The problem is "clean energy" isn't that clean. Littering the countryside with thousands of enormous reinforced concrete turbine bases, and having to cut up the thousands of colossal fibreglass turbine blades and burying them when their useful life is over - is that really "clean". Every form of energy production has a cost to the environment.
The other downside is that it makes electricity very expensive - ignore the claims that wind and solar are comparable to coal and gas generation -thats only by fiddling the figures by artificially loading the fossil fuels with carbon taxes and subsidising the renewables. This has resulted in 2.5 million people in the UK now living in fuel poverty and subsequently an estimated 17,000 deaths from the resulting cold. Quite a downside if you are one of them!
The crazy thing is that the air has never been cleaner. Taking London as the extreme, the SPM - Suspended Particulate Matter ( soot, dust, pollen) in micro grams per cubic meter, was 250 in pre-industrial times (1700), peaked at 621 in 1890 and has been falling ever since - by 1980 it was 82, by 2000 25, by 2010 20, and by 2016 just 16. Not sure where the problem is.... we are already in a clean energy society.

 

[Fazerloz]

A friend sent me this link today.

 

[Asterix]

The problem is "clean energy" isn't that clean. Littering the countryside with thousands of enormous reinforced concrete turbine bases, and having to cut up the thousands of colossal fibreglass turbine blades and burying them when their useful life is over - is that really "clean". Every form of energy production has a cost to the environment.
The other downside is that it makes electricity very expensive - ignore the claims that wind and solar are comparable to coal and gas generation -thats only by fiddling the figures by artificially loading the fossil fuels with carbon taxes and subsidising the renewables. This has resulted in 2.5 million people in the UK now living in fuel poverty and subsequently an estimated 17,000 deaths from the resulting cold. Quite a downside if you are one of them!
The crazy thing is that the air has never been cleaner. Taking London as the extreme, the SPM - Suspended Particulate Matter ( soot, dust, pollen) in micro grams per cubic meter, was 250 in pre-industrial times (1700), peaked at 621 in 1890 and has been falling ever since - by 1980 it was 82, by 2000 25, by 2010 20, and by 2016 just 16. Not sure where the problem is.... we are already in a clean energy society.

The numbers you give for London sounds great but completely missed the point that overall emmisions worldwide have increased enormously over the last hundred years. We need to look at absolute numbers worldwide,with many more countries becoming industrialized and massive population increases,London may well be cleaner now but the world isn't.
Take China as an example,every year for the last five or more years they've produced more clean energy than any other country,but during the same period more people entered the middle classes,with big energy requirements,new cars,houses etc. This has resulted in 50-100 new coal fired power stations being approved for construction in the coming years. The same can be applied to India,Africa and many smaller developing countries so it is imperative that rich Western countries should be leading the race to zero emmisions and doing the R&D to bring better products to the energy markets that will benefit the entire world.
Cleaning up London may have very little impact on the world but the technology to do it can be world changing.