Is it the death knell for the combustion engine?

[2cv]

The constant chase for prosperity is the heart of the problem,the entire ethos of what we value as a species needs to change.

Prosperity enables us to pursue such things as running a motorhome as well as the basics of eating good healthy food and maybe enjoying an alcoholic beverage. It also supports good education and healthcare, as well as a relatively supportive society. I honestly don’t agree that we’d all be better off avoiding it.

 

[trevskoda]

Prosperity enables us to pursue such things as running a motorhome as well as the basics of eating good healthy food and maybe enjoying an alcoholic beverage. It also supports good education and healthcare, as well as a relatively supportive society. I honestly don’t agree that we’d all be better off avoiding it.

Well my g/father used to say why educate woman as they end up with babys cook and clean,head down now.

 

[Asterix]

Prosperity enables us to pursue such things as running a motorhome as well as the basics of eating good healthy food and maybe enjoying an alcoholic beverage. It also supports good education and healthcare, as well as a relatively supportive society. I honestly don’t agree that we’d all be better off avoiding it.

I'm not saying we should all become paupers but rather how we measure our success needs to be changed,we've been programmed all our lives to equate success with wealth.
Here's a recent example of how it can be different,some countries are already changing the formula of how GDP measures "success".

5 ways GDP gets it totally wrong as a measure of our success | World Economic Forum

 

[2cv]

I'm not saying we should all become paupers but rather how we measure our success needs to be changed,we've been programmed all our lives to equate success with wealth.
Here's a recent example of how it can be different,some countries are already changing the formula of how GDP measures "success".

5 ways GDP gets it totally wrong as a measure of our success | World Economic Forum

I can agree that possibly GDP is not a great measuring tool. I’m pleased that you see that all becoming paupers is not a good thing.
My point is that by reacting to a possibly false theory, in the future our descendants may end up paupers, with a potentially damaged ecology in our attempts to nullify the effects suggested by the possibly false theory. Not a perfect scenario by any means.

 

[Asterix]

I can agree that possibly GDP is not a great measuring tool. I’m pleased that you see that all becoming paupers is not a good thing.
My point is that by reacting to a possibly false theory, in the future our descendants may end up paupers, with a potentially damaged ecology in our attempts to nullify the effects suggested by the possibly false theory. Not a perfect scenario by any means.

I'm struggling to see a big cost,it's just moving money from a dirty economy to a clean one,if anything our descendants will have cheap/free clean energy and better quality of life. It may do stuff-all on an ecological level but I just can't see a downside to decarbonizing our economy. If we stay the current course we are sentencing our descendants to endless wars over resources,we have to focus on minimizing use of all resources,if there's no push in that direction there will never be any incentive to research sustainable energy and the only winners in that scenario are the fossil fuel companies.

 

[2cv]

I'm struggling to see a big cost,it's just moving money from a dirty economy to a clean one,if anything our descendants will have cheap/free clean energy and better quality of life. It may do stuff-all on an ecological level but I just can't see a downside to decarbonizing our economy. If we stay the current course we are sentencing our descendants to endless wars over resources,we have to focus on minimizing use of all resources,if there's no push in that direction there will never be any incentive to research sustainable energy and the only winners in that scenario are the fossil fuel companies.

Unfortunately the future wars will be over the limited raw materials supply for battery production, at least if we continue down that path.
The big cost is beginning to be paid by those in the car industry and none “green” transport sectors. After the 2000 jobs lost at Flybe today there is talk of thousands more to go in their support companies. Norwegian appears to be next in line for extinction with thousands of jobs lost.

 

[Asterix]

Unfortunately the future wars will be over the limited raw materials supply for battery production, at least if we continue down that path.
The big cost is beginning to be paid by those in the car industry and none “green” transport sectors. After the 2000 jobs lost at Flybe today there is talk of thousands more to go in their support companies. Norwegian appears to be next in line for extinction with thousands of jobs lost.

Car plants and airlines disappearing is excellent news,I'm hoping this virus will help sort out some cruise companies as well.

 

[2cv]

Car plants and airlines disappearing is excellent news,I'm hoping this virus will help sort out some cruise companies as well.

I don’t think that thousands with mortgages who may lose their homes would agree, nor would their dependants.

 

[GreggBear]

This would undoubtedly lead to great hardship for most people, as in the 1930s. Seems a rather strange aspiration.

A bit of hardship wouldn't be a bad thing for most folk, life has got a bit too easy of late...

 

[2cv]

A bit of hardship wouldn't be a bad thing for most folk, life has got a bit too easy of late...

A bit of hardship is what the wealthy could expect. It would be the poor as usual who would suffer most, possibly being deprived of basic needs. I’m amazed that some people think that such a situation is desirable.

 

[GreggBear]

Of course I don't find it desirable, just pointing out that life for a lot of "poor" people ain't so bad. How many of these so called poor people (me included) have mobile phones, colour TVs, run a vehicle etc?
Just pointing out that many poor people in this country don't know what poor means. Maybe a lot of us/them should assess their priorities & appreciate more of what they have rather than worrying about what they have not. Nobody wants to see anyone in poverty, especially me, just saying the standard of living in this country is not too bad for most people, even though the division between "us" & "them" is absolutely shameful.....

 

[Fisherman]

This thread has now been reduced to hoping that corona virus will sort things out.
Really sad comment.
And asterix, you may end up being sorted out, or a member of your family, or a dear friend. Be very careful what you wish for, it may personally affect you.

 

[Fisherman]

Of course I don't find it desirable, just pointing out that life for a lot of "poor" people ain't so bad. How many of these so called poor people (me included) have mobile phones, colour TVs, run a vehicle etc?
Just pointing out that many poor people in this country don't know what poor means. Maybe a lot of us/them should assess their priorities & appreciate more of what they have rather than worrying about what they have not. Nobody wants to see anyone in poverty, especially me, just saying the standard of living in this. Pun try is not too bad for most people, even though the division between "us" & "them" is absolutely shameful.....

Poverty is relative Gregg.
A poor person here would be regarded as wealthy in some third world countries.
But wealth is not always measured in material things.
I know millionaires who lead poor lives, and poorer people who have much better quality of life. Life is what you make it for most, and poverty is relative not only to how much money you have or don’t have. Taking our hobby as an example, it’s not those with £100,000 hymen’s who necessarily get the most from Motorhoming, many with old vans get so much more from their chosen hobby.

 

[Robmac]

Poverty is relative Gregg.
A poor person here would be regarded as wealthy in some third world countries.
But wealth is not always measured in material things.
I know millionaires who lead poor lives, and poorer people who have much better quality of life. Life is what you make it for most, and poverty is relative not only to how much money you have or don’t have. Taking our hobby as an example, it’s not those with £100,000 hymen’s who necessarily get the most from Motorhoming, many with old vans get so much more from their chosen hobby.

Freudian slip in there somewhere?

 

[GreggBear]

My point exactly. I know people who are not money rich yet enjoy life & have a positive outlook. Conversely some people think they are in poverty, while they sit smoking, drinking & watching their big tv! If your happiness is only measured by material things you will never be truly happy IMHO the more people have the more they need to feel the buzz.
Look for the things in life that money can't buy, birdsong, a smile from a stranger, the warm sun on your back etc. When you can find happiness in those things you don't need a pile of money....

 

[ricc]

my 8 year old grand daughter lives where i lived when i was eight....she goes to the same school i went to....i cycled on a bycycle 2 miles each way whatever the weather...she gets a ride in a car....our family car was an end of life austin cambridge...one of theres is a year old vw estate.
theres no comparison between the material trappings of childhood then and now.....and that extends to adult life as well.....we bought a new 40 inch tv last year.....pound wise it was exactly the same price as the one i bought 40 years ago....when hundred pound a week was silly money. the material trappings are as cheap as theyve ever been when you compare them to hours of labour expended to get the money to buy them.

 

[davef]

Supposedly an old Chinese proverb - " He who knows he has enough is rich."

 

[Asterix]

This thread has now been reduced to hoping that corona virus will sort things out.
Really sad comment.
And asterix, you may end up being sorted out, or a member of your family, or a dear friend. Be very careful what you wish for, it may personally affect you.

I'm not advocating that I want to drop dead for the sake of the planet but the reality is that no single individual is worth more than any other and we really do need a billion or two to drop dead,life is just a numbers game.

 

[davef]

This thread has now been reduced to hoping that corona virus will sort things out.
Really sad comment.
And asterix, you may end up being sorted out, or a member of your family, or a dear friend. Be very careful what you wish for, it may personally affect you.

According to the Georgia Guide Stones ( http://www.radioliberty.com/stones.htm ), the Elite envision the New World Order as having controlled reproduction and a maximum world population of half a billion people, about 1/14 th of current level. If the coronavirus doesn't achieve this they appear to have this in hand with the roll-out of 5G. One of the many claimed damages to health from these localised powerful microwave transmitters is sterility in young males.....

 

[Fisherman]

The internet is a wonderful tool.
But it’s filled with extremist views on everything from ******, to making scrambled egg. The trick is to know how to make scrambled egg before going online, then removing the wheat from the chaff.