Is it the death knell for the combustion engine?

[davef]

Those at the very top promoting the alarmist warming scam openly admit it is a scam.
This is Ottmar Edenhoffer who is the Co-Chair of the International Panel on Climate Change - the UN's IPCC - in an interview with German NZZ Online - " One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy...... One must say clearly that we distribute the world's wealth by climate policy."
There it is in black and white from the very top of the scam.
AGW is a new age religion for those who have lost any true religious belief system. Trying to argue with such a believer with facts and evidence and logic is like trying to sensibly argue with any fanatical religious believer whether they are a born again Christian or a fundamentalist Muslim. It is a new belief system you are undermining which they are clinging on to - and some will fight to the death for - as we keep seeing.
" It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled" Mark Twain.
The cost of doing nothing - is like the cost of doing nothing about the Millennium Bug, which was going to cause planes to fall out of the sky, computers and civilisation to crash - nothing. Some countries wasted billions on a non-problem, some spent nothing. The result was the same. The same will happen with AGW. We should not be the idiot country bankrupting ourselves and our future for an illusion, a non-problem. Our grandchildren will certainly not thank us for that.

 

[Fisherman]

Those at the very top promoting the alarmist warming scam openly admit it is a scam.
This is Ottmar Edenhoffer who is the Co-Chair of the International Panel on Climate Change - the UN's IPCC - in an interview with German NZZ Online - " One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy...... One must say clearly that we distribute the world's wealth by climate policy."
There it is in black and white from the very top of the scam.
AGW is a new age religion for those who have lost any true religious belief system. Trying to argue with such a believer with facts and evidence and logic is like trying to sensibly argue with any fanatical religious believer whether they are a born again Christian or a fundamentalist Muslim. It is a new belief system you are undermining which they are clinging on to - and some will fight to the death for - as we keep seeing.
" It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled" Mark Twain.
The cost of doing nothing - is like the cost of doing nothing about the Millennium Bug, which was going to cause planes to fall out of the sky, computers and civilisation to crash - nothing. Some countries wasted billions on a non-problem, some spent nothing. The result was the same. The same will happen with AGW. We should not be the idiot country bankrupting ourselves and our future for an illusion, a non-problem. Our grandchildren will certainly not thank us for that.

 

[Fazerloz]

The trouble with these sort of cost measurements is that they just pull the figures out their arses,what you've failed to mention is the cost of doing nothing,that has the potential to massively exceeed three trillion,there's also no mention of the costs that will be offset with new industries starting up. To my mind no one can truly come up with figures for any of these things,too many variables,too many unknowns and new research and development leading to new innovations in energy,recycling,transport constantly being added to the mix.
Ultimately the best solution is really having a couple of billion people drop dead, I had high hopes for coronavirus but unfortunately it doesn't seem like it's up to the job.

Just like GW computer modeling pulls figures out of its arse.

 

[Asterix]

Just like GW computer modeling pulls figures out of its arse.

You may be right,or not...we can debate till we're blue in the face,the fact is I'd rather have a greener future for the planet,fossil fuels have brought us an amazing standard of living along with a massive health and environmental cost. Now we have the opportunity to have an even better standard of living for our society in the future.

 

[Martin P]

Those at the very top promoting the alarmist warming scam openly admit it is a scam.
This is Ottmar Edenhoffer who is the Co-Chair of the International Panel on Climate Change - the UN's IPCC - in an interview with German NZZ Online - " One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy...... One must say clearly that we distribute the world's wealth by climate policy."
There it is in black and white from the very top of the scam.
AGW is a new age religion for those who have lost any true religious belief system. Trying to argue with such a believer with facts and evidence and logic is like trying to sensibly argue with any fanatical religious believer whether they are a born again Christian or a fundamentalist Muslim. It is a new belief system you are undermining which they are clinging on to - and some will fight to the death for - as we keep seeing.
" It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled" Mark Twain.
The cost of doing nothing - is like the cost of doing nothing about the Millennium Bug, which was going to cause planes to fall out of the sky, computers and civilisation to crash - nothing. Some countries wasted billions on a non-problem, some spent nothing. The result was the same. The same will happen with AGW. We should not be the idiot country bankrupting ourselves and our future for an illusion, a non-problem. Our grandchildren will certainly not thank us for that.

Could not agree more.
Just reminds me of the nutters I used to see as a kid standing on street corners shouting out we are all doomed.
Two things the British love
Saying we are all going to die and talking about the weather
Now the loonies say we are all going to die because of the weather they are all on a roll

 

[GreggBear]

You may be right,or not...we can debate till we're blue in the face,the fact is I'd rather have a greener future for the planet,fossil fuels have brought us an amazing standard of living along with a massive health and environmental cost. Now we have the opportunity to have an even better standard of living for our society in the future.

If you want a greener future, maybe instead of depriving your fellow countrymen of reasonably priced fuel/transport etc you should be campaigning to get USA/ China etc to make even a slight change to their "planet killing" ways! Even a slight change by either of the top polluters would by far eclipse anything we could ever achieve. Don't think it's fair to expect us to give up everything while China are still building coal fired power stations & America are still running 7litre plus petrol vehicles that return double figure mpg figures. India are supposedly one of the fastest growing economies in the world just now, what is their stance on Greek issues? Why are these countries not being pressured instead of us caving in again as usual?

 

[Fisherman]

You may be right,or not...we can debate till we're blue in the face,the fact is I'd rather have a greener future for the planet,fossil fuels have brought us an amazing standard of living along with a massive health and environmental cost. Now we have the opportunity to have an even better standard of living for our society in the future.

Debate Asterix, no chance.
You are a loonie, an alarmist, naive, gullible, a nutter, someone who used to stand at a street corner telling us we are all doomed, and apparently you love to talk about the weather. How can you debate with comments like that flying about.
Trying to put forward a reasoned reasonable debate on here is a complete waste of time.

So let’s try adding a bit of humour to the (debate)

Apparently some think I was having a go at asterix with this post.
I was not doing so. I was referring to how those who think that global warming is a possibility have been described on here. If you care to look you will note that asterix liked the post. But I apologise if anyone misunderstood my intentions.

 

[Asterix]

If you want a greener future, maybe instead of depriving your fellow countrymen of reasonably priced fuel/transport etc you should be campaigning to get USA/ China etc to make even a slight change to their "planet killing" ways! Even a slight change by either of the top polluters would by far eclipse anything we could ever achieve. Don't think it's fair to expect us to give up everything while China are still building coal fired power stations & America are still running 7litre plus petrol vehicles that return double figure mpg figures. India are supposedly one of the fastest growing economies in the world just now, what is their stance on Greek issues? Why are these countries not being pressured instead of us caving in again as usual?

With a little help from Google,you'll see that China and India are spending huge amounts on going green,what the UK spends in comparison is a pittance. America too is surging ahead with green initiatives with little to no support from Central government,because it's what the people want,it would certainly be better with gov. support but whether you and others like it or not,it's the people that are pushing it forward. If you look at underdeveloped countries you will also see that many of them are leapfrogging over the outdated tech we've been depending on for the last hundred odd years,and going straight to green for new energy initiatives.
It is disingenuous to suggest others aren't pulling their weight when their efforts often exceed our own,or singling out China as the biggest polluter,of course they are with a pop. in excess of a billion.

 

[mark61]

Debate Asterix, no chance.
You are a loonie, an alarmist, naive, gullible, a nutter, someone who used to stand at a street corner telling us we are all doomed, and apparently you love to talk about the weather. How can you debate with comments like that flying about.
Trying to put forward a reasoned reasonable debate on here is a complete waste of time.

So let’s try adding a bit of humour to the (debate)

Oh stop it, you've used climate denier, luddite etc throughout the whole post. No one has mentioned it. One post with a derogatory term the other way and there's no chance of a debate.

 

[Fisherman]

With a little help from Google,you'll see that China and India are spending huge amounts on going green,what the UK spends in comparison is a pittance. America too is surging ahead with green initiatives with little to no support from Central government,because it's what the people want,it would certainly be better with gov. support but whether you and others like it or not,it's the people that are pushing it forward. If you look at underdeveloped countries you will also see that many of them are leapfrogging over the outdated tech we've been depending on for the last hundred odd years,and going straight to green for new energy initiatives.
It is disingenuous to suggest others aren't pulling their weight when their efforts often exceed our own,or singling out China as the biggest polluter,of course they are with a pop. in excess of a billion.

California and other states have adopted many green policies.
As for the Americans all driving about in gas guzzlers, simply not true.
Many now drive mid range astra type cars, and you see loads of minis on their roads now. I have even seen smart cars. 40 years ago when petrol was 30 cents a gallon times were different.

 

[Fisherman]

Oh stop it, you've used climate denier, luddite etc throughout the whole post. No one has mentioned it. One post with a derogatory term the other way and there's no chance of a debate.

Mark I have just read through all of my posts and I cannot see where I called you a denier or a Luddite. I did refer to those who thought that the car would never replace horses as Luddites. I have tried being serious, funny, considerate, and detailed. I quoted Wiki on here something we all use, only to be told basically it’s a load of balls, and you can’t rely on what’s on it.

Also Mark if I did state you are a denier so what. By definition you are a denier, doubter, or whatever word you chose to use. But I am not gullible, stupid, easily led, a loonie, an alarmist, a nutter, or a doom munger.
I am simply someone who is not prepared to gamble with my kids and their kids future. I am not 100% behind what is going on, or human induced global warming. But neither am I so sure that this is all some cunning plan to get us all of the roads either, by the powers that be.

 

[GreggBear]

With a little help from Google,you'll see that China and India are spending huge amounts on going green,what the UK spends in comparison is a pittance. America too is surging ahead with green initiatives with little to no support from Central government,because it's what the people want,it would certainly be better with gov. support but whether you and others like it or not,it's the people that are pushing it forward. If you look at underdeveloped countries you will also see that many of them are leapfrogging over the outdated tech we've been depending on for the last hundred odd years,and going straight to green for new energy initiatives.
It is disingenuous to suggest others aren't pulling their weight when their efforts often exceed our own,or singling out China as the biggest polluter,of course they are with a pop. in excess of a billion.

Yes they're doing something but nowhere near as much as everyone else pro rata. They are still major polluters & what they are doing is not anywhere near enough. We are such a small fish in a big sea yet we are being asked(told) to give up so much to "save the planet" When are the big players going to be made to stop growing their newfound economic wealth, or give up their co2 rich lifestyles?

 

[Asterix]

Yes they're doing something but nowhere near as much as everyone else pro rata. They are still major polluters & what they are doing is not anywhere near enough. We are such a small fish in a big sea yet we are being asked(told) to give up so much to "save the planet" When are the big players going to be made to stop growing their newfound economic wealth, or give up their co2 rich lifestyles?

You must realise there's still large populations in both India and China that are striving to reach our standard of living,fossil fuels will play a big part in that for the foreseeable future,or would you prefer they maintain their peasant status? We (developed nation's) should be leading the way and striving to reach 0 emissions asap,so the technology and know how can be passed on to those in less fortunate positions.
It's not good enough to do nothing and argue that others aren't doing their bit when they're economically light years behind us,if we set the example for others to follow....they will follow.

 

[mark61]

I never said you called me denier. I said you have used the term. The term is taken from the term "Holocaust denial" and has been appropriated by climate activist since the around the late 80's early 90's with the sole purpose of causing offence. Another thing they got wrong.
There is virtually no-one who is a climate denier or a climate change denier, what is denied is the cherry picked stats, the false 97% etc, so if you insist on using the word denier, than fake news deniers would be the correct one I thought you had researched this to the nth degree.

 

[Fisherman]

I never said you called me denier. I said you have used the term. The term is taken from the term "Holocaust denial" and has been appropriated by climate activist since the around the late 80's early 90's with the sole purpose of causing offence. Another thing they got wrong.
There is virtually no-one who is a climate denier or a climate change denier, what is denied is the cherry picked stats, the false 97% etc, so if you insist on using the word denier, than fake news deniers would be the correct one I thought you had researched this to the nth degree.

Can you show me the post where I used the term denier, prior to my previous post.
post number please. I cannot find it.
Also show me where I stated I had researched to the nth degree.
post number please. I cannot find it.

As for posting cherry picked stats, pot and kettle come readily to mind.
This thread is full of them.
I posted that as a reply to someone who stated that only 3.2 % of scientists support global warming theories. Funny how you never latched on to that one Mark.

John Cook who founded "Skeptical Science" came up with the the " 97% of scientists believe in AGW." Researchers found there were 1944 scientific papers on the subject which he had read, only 64 supported his claim. That's 3.2%.

 

[Fisherman]

[

 

[Fisherman]

You must realise there's still large populations in both India and China that are striving to reach our standard of living,fossil fuels will play a big part in that for the foreseeable future,or would you prefer they maintain their peasant status? We (developed nation's) should be leading the way and striving to reach 0 emissions asap,so the technology and know how can be passed on to those in less fortunate positions.
It's not good enough to do nothing and argue that others aren't doing their bit when they're economically light years behind us,if we set the example for others to follow....they will follow.

Checked the figures for per capita CO2 emissions.
But as I got them from wiki, they are a load of balls according to some on here.

But anyway India 1.6 ton. China 8 tons uk 6 tons, and the elephant in the room the good old USA 16 tons.

 

[colinm]

Checked the figures for per capita CO2 emissions.
But as I got them from wiki, they are a load of balls according to some on here.

But anyway India 1.6 ton. China 6 tons uk 8 tons, and the elephant in the room the good old USA 16 tons.

I think you have UK and China mixed up.

 

[Fisherman]

I think you have UK and China mixed up.

Correct I did .

 

[Fisherman]

I cannot resist some cherry picking, but 85% of us in the uk reckon we have a problem. No doubt this will be put to the test. Oh and it did not come from wiki.

Concern about climate change reaches record levels with half now 'very concerned'

New polling shows 85% of Britons are now concerned about climate change, with the majority (52%) very concerned.

www.ipsos.com