Filling UK gas bottle in Europe

[TOWtal]

SafeFill

I think the SafeFill bottle is relatively new this year. So re-fill sites are building.
The main attraction of the bottle is the weight - it's feather light!

 

[Bernard Jones]

I haven't read this thread - Sorry.

But has everybody seen the new SafeFill bottle?
Home | Safefill

We have had some in for customers - very impressive.

Copied from your website; The refilling of rented gas cylinders is rife, this is illegal and could see you prosecuted for theft; it’s also extremely dangerous

The legal definition of theft is 'taking away the property of another with the intention of permanently depriving them of it' I cannot see how refilling a gas cylinder, rented or otherwise would fit that description and have never heard of any successful prosecutions. Can you direct us to any?

Can you also tell us why its 'extremely dangerous' to refill anybody else's cylinders except yours. Perhaps you should tell Calor, Camping Gaz etc who do it all the time?

 

[TOWtal]

Copied from your website; The refilling of rented gas cylinders is rife, this is illegal and could see you prosecuted for theft; it’s also extremely dangerous

The legal definition of theft is 'taking away the property of another with the intention of permanently depriving them of it' I cannot see how refilling a gas cylinder, rented or otherwise would fit that description and have never heard of any successful prosecutions. Can you direct us to any?

Can you also tell us why its 'extremely dangerous' to refill anybody else's cylinders except yours. Perhaps you should tell Calor, Camping Gaz etc who do it all the time?

Sorry for confusion - it's not my website. I just saw the product and liked it.

 

[Deleted member 3011]

most bottles are marked propane and butane .giving the required amounts to fill.

Yes, this is given in kg and will be correct for that specific gas.
Good that you got this part correct - but what do you advise regarding the unknown composition of autogas that therefore has different densities making checking by weight inaccurate.

open bottle when empty ,weigh the bottle empty. (or see tare on bottle).fill required amount approx twice the weight quoted on bottle . after filling reweigh and check, if overfilled let some gas out .

 

[vwalan]

tony . the filling to 80 percent is only ever approx . if we use a 13 kg propane bottle this can also take 15kg butane as marked on the bottles . are we really going to argue over about half a kilo . we know the main gas in auto gas is usually propane so if we just use the propane kg ,litres we cant be far out. .even calor filled bottles do differ in weight . i know you do try to be very acurate and care that people dont have accidents but come on next you will b asking how we manageon a cold day to a hot day. its not that precise nor is it a detrement if slightly over or under . personally i usually under fill just as a safe bet. i have overfilled a few times too and had no probs.somewhere on the web there is a list of countries and their apprx mix of gases in autogas. i know calor fill my tank then go on to a local garage and fill theirs . i,m sold my gas as propane. i use it for my house and other things requiring propane .yes off road vehicles as well. fork lifts etc. if butane was the main gas i may get problems in winter. i havent asked calor if they ever change the mix of gases it doesnt seem that important to me. hope that answers your question . cheers alan.

 

[Deleted member 3011]

It's all pretty academic given the attitude of several western European countries to the refilling of portable bottles. Germany and France have signs at many outlets and spain sounds pretty problematic anyway so that doesn't leave much scope for DIY.

Morocco doesn't have too many autogas outlets and it is dirt cheap to buy one of their bottles - as it is in France where 13kg bottles can be bought for 1 euro consignment and 20 euro for the contents. Cheaper than messing around with autogas.

 

[vwalan]

i dont disagree with you on that one .i have a maroc and a spanish for most trips .if not going maroc i chuck in a 19kg british . i do sometimes fill either if i have to . in spain its cheaper to exchange .in portugal just fill either . i do sometimes carry the hand pump for emptying local bottles in to mine if going to other couintries where i,m not sure of the score. i do tip maroc into what ever bottles i,m carrying then burn the remains in usage then make sure i leave with a full one. carrying the adaptors just lets you fill if need be. what i cant understand is the cost of the refillable uk bottles in comparison to the german refillable etc. certainly havent bought a camping gas bottle i use in my mazda bongo for years unless in maroc . daylight robbery here.
have never been stopped from filling a bottle but will admit i dont ask just do it. then go and pay .never been questioned ,but think if you fill a small bottle it could send alarm signals to the garage operators. hardly worth it here on the 19kg or the 47kg very often cheaper to exchange. always better from a big tank. cheers alan.

 

[shortcircuit]

A bit off topic but this method of getting cheap gas reminds me of a character many moons ago when I served my apprenticeship. The plant I worked in produced natural gas from low grade quality coal in LARGE volumes. The calorific value needed to be topped up and this was done by the mixing of propane/butane or whatever. The liquid gas was held in large containers similar to that seen in refineries.

This character decided that to fill his cigarette lighter he would modify the refill tube. He drilled out the bottom of the tube and used a cork bung to seal it. He then went to a small liquid gas container which would be approx 5m in diameter and 10m long and had a drain valve??. He would open this valve and once liquid gas flowed would fill his tube from the liquid gas that was free flowing.

Fortunately we were lucky that we had no accidents. I understand that in an incident, I believe in Australia, when carrying out a maintenance function ?? the valve froze open resulting in a serious incident. I believe that double valves are now fitted on drains.

The point I make is that although you consider you are carrying out the same procedure as that carried out by authorised re-fillers who have build in safety procedures/environment, you are prepared to put the general public at risk to save a few pennies. Like the character I described, greed got the better of him.

 

[Bernard Jones]

Like the character I described, greed got the better of him.

Talking of greed why do some refillers of Camping Gaz charge over 6 times the forecourt price of the gas, and more than double the refill price in Spain?
In this climate its perhaps no wonder some people attempt to refill their own.

 

[maureenandtom]

It's thrift, frugality, common sense if we are pro or neutral.

It's greed if we are against and are ready to use contempt, scorn, holier than thou to reinforce our possibly otherwise valid argument.

You can use the greed argument in any discussion you want. I've seen it used by those against wild-camping. We all have. It annoys me.

 

[shortcircuit]

The usual reply through rose coloured specs. To save money filing a bottle not designed for user refill by trial and error practice in a public place with no proper procedures or safety precautions is for one reason only and that s to satisfy your greed.

 

[shortcircuit]

There is only one thing correct in your post. In all you say you are prepared to carry out a procedure in a public place to the risk of others. Clear to identify who the fool is.

 

[vwalan]

i think its time to stop the calling of names. we can have a heated discusion with out it. best to agree to disagree. we may need one another in a different place . only the ones in glass houses dont throw stones. or what ever the saying is. express views but try to be friendly.we may meet up and have a good laugh about it one day. cheers alan.

 

[shortcircuit]

"only the ones in glass houses dont throw stones" Nice phrase to mollify a posting, obviously not a member of the diplomatic service:rolleyes2:

 

[Tbear]

"only the ones in glass houses dont throw stones" Nice phrase to mollify a posting, obviously not a member of the diplomatic service:rolleyes2:

Diplomat no but HE does know what he is talking about.

 

[Bigpeetee]

Refilling reminds me of an incident a number of years a go.

In the mid 80's I was working in Oman (wilding all over the place each weekend)

Fuel at remote location was taken in barrels and decanted into jerry cans via a tap at the bottom.

As the level in the barrel went down, so the flow reduced, taking an age to fill the jerry can.

One of the brits, inserted a Schraeder valve into the cap of the barrel. An airline provided a few PSI to assist in the draining of the barrel.

Unfortunately a couple of the locals saw this and copied, but to get the fuel out quicker, kept the airline on full.

An almighty bang, flash and one had their head completely severed by the top of the drum, the other two engulfed in flames sadly deceased.

On investigation, "No one" knew anything about pressurising barrels etc!!

Moral, IF you understand what you are doing, you can use suitable methods to move a flamable liquid from one place to another, but let someone who doesn't know or even THINK they know can be very dangerous, if not fatal.

 

[Byronic]

Moral, IF you understand what you are doing, you can use suitable methods to move a flamable liquid from one place to another, but let someone who doesn't know or even THINK they know can be very dangerous, if not fatal.[/QUOTE

And that is the nub of the problem."They" may think they understand what they are doing, but those without a relevant recognised trade/professional qualification to back up their advice should keep that advice to themselves.Or state that they are amateurs.
It's one thing to advise on a wild camp spot, quite another to advise (encourage) on deviating from accepted practice on gas bottle refilling.

 

[vwalan]

there was no qualified car people around when carl benz made the first car . we all learn by practice . i have said it before people may be highly educated but may not be intelligent. just clever at what they have been taught. we dont need qualifications to get on in this world. i for one never passed the 11+ left school at 15 yrs and 2 weeks old . have had many jobs . learnt lots . maneged in super markets ran a very sucessfull garage repair business . been an importer exporter of car spares . managed a fleet of trucks . fitted lpg to cars before the regs changed . but only have a qualification in catering and a hgv licence . (adr +international cpc)some only do one thing all their life .me i think if a human can do it so can i . some may do it better but most wont. now i try to specialise in traffic law and do act as a mackenzie friend in court for motorists . i also build expedition trucks etc for friends . lets not just think a bit of paper is the answer . the world evolves with people learning new things knowing what we know today should the motor car been alloweed to carry on ?the deaths etc in building making .,getting the fuel .carrage of fuel etc never mind the damage to the world /sea by polution..i think today many would ban it straight away. have fun . hi ron if you should run out of gas next year i can fill your bottle .
we have similer talks in spain .byronic is a real good friend . cheers alan.

 

[Byronic]

I knew I'd get a response from you; you must have a qualification in touch typing as well now, because that was pretty damn quick.
The point is that a qualification shows that somebody has reached a certain standard,and if belonging to a trade or professional body they are expected to abide by certain standards, yea I know there are exceptions but in general it works.Sometimes a person may be allowed to join the body by virtue of their experience but they have to prove their competence.
As in heart surgery it's preferable(for all of us) that you learn gas skills under skilled supervision rather than by self experiment.

 

[vwalan]

i did once prospected for a large motor bike club. you could call it an aprenticeship. i,m just trying to keep up the standards i learnt. never do what authority wants but try to do what you want using the rules they made.qualifications only have any value to others with qualifications . many with qualifications are short sighted and never learn what happens before or after their bit of work. some of us try to get a grip with it all. make a good earning and enjoy life. never mind role on november . still not warm here . ha ha .cheers alan.