Filling UK gas bottle in Europe

If you do it yourself and it goes wrong it could kill you.

Therefore we have a measure of how dangerous it is. Actual danger not theoretical danger.

How many people have been killed or injured because of exceeding the 80% limit?

I've not found any. The only comparable instance I ever found was two or three years ago about an incident several years before that, and I can't find it now, concerning a possibly overfilled gas bottle being stored under a lit barbecue and overfilling may have been a contributory factor. This was in the USA and, once again I can't remember exactly, this incident may have been a contributory factor to having all gas bottles in USA fitted with overfill protection.

It's dangerous, I accept that. How many accidents have been traced to overfilling? It should be an easy enough statistic to find. I can't find it.

I'm not making any rhetorical question here, I want to know.

594162
 
I don't know how many accidents that have been caused by overfilled bottles, but my guess is not many, perhaps a testament to the fact that not many people fill bottles that are marked as non user refillable. I'm not saying that you can't refill your own bottle, just that there are specifically designed bottles sold for just that purpose and to use them would be good practice. Cost is the determining factor. If it was found that refilling non refillables were the cause of accidents then I could well imagine the authorities banning all refilling by the public.
As for exploding bottles I've always believed that if a bottle were to overheat, rather than split and explode the valve is designed to blow off first and the gas escapes as a jet. Which is considered the lesser of 2 evils.
 
Tony Lee said:
I'm curious. Am I the only one to admit to being distracted when filling a bucket or fuel can or siphoning fuel into a can or whatever, and having it overflow. Water or petrol on the ground is pretty obvious and you take appropriate precautions, but a hydraulically-full LPG bottle looks no more dangerous than a properly-filled one, but in fact is a bomb waiting to cause major damage or injury.
Click to expand...

When filling a gas bottle you cant go wrong as long as you concentrate on the display and ensure that the bottle is empty to start with.
 
LPG systems are one RV essential that a lot of people manage to use for years without having any problems so I guess we can attribute that to adequate regulations and the fact that most people are happy to use them in a conventional manner.

Needed to catch up on the laundry so called in at a caravan park in the south of France. Britt in a WizzzzBANG asked for advice on his gas setup - said it was flaring up when lighting the stove.

Found that he had bought a new gas bottle before leaving home and the only way he could fit it in the gas locker was to lay it on its side.

-------------------------

The problem with filling gas bottles 100% full isn't that they are very likely to explode - assuming the safety valve does work- but because if the safety valve goes off due to rapid pressure rise as the contents warm up, either gas or liquid is ejected from the valve until the pressure drops enough for the valve to be able to close. If the bottle is lying on its side, the significant amount of liquid escaping will convert into a large volume of gas. If this escapes into a sealed vehicle or building it will stay there for a long time. Even in a tent, the sealing is often good enough that a layer of gas can build up on the floor.

--------------------------------
vwalan

that said the only differance is the adaptor you use to fill the bottle from the pump. nothing else changes .where ever you are .fill from empty and dont be distracted . use the kg wt and x2 for litres .
Click to expand...

Let's hope it isn't catching
 
Allen..... so you reckon it's only the adaptor thats different, no it is not.... the refillable cannot be filled to more than 80% and thats the whole point, it does not rely on concentrating on the pump meter or the arithmetical abilities of the brain dead.
 
byronic. refilling uk gas bottles in europe . only the adapter is different if you have a refillable or standard .to refill either is the same here or abroad .the refillable might have a 80percent stop .but these can be overridden by the pump. but anyway if you refill a standard bottle in uk the only differance is the adaptor abroad. may be you dont understand english ..joke.... ..i have never had a [problem filling uk bottles abroad .i do keep them strapped in the locker. (fixed)i normally fit the filling adaptor .go to the garager open gas locker door connect and fill.
having used lpg for years on cars and filling tanks i have seen these stop valves fail quite often. on the cars it doesnt matter as you use liquid. but i start with an empty bottle tare is marked on the bottle .fill the required litres .check weigh when away from garage .i can always let some out if i want.
can i ask have you ever tried to fill a bottle either by the pump or decanting. i have lpg hand pump to assist bottle decants. its a krugg ,usa made brilliant tool. i personally find it very simple to fill bottles and first filled a gas bottle in 1976. remember it well ,i worked on a campsite and we had run out of bottles . a maintenance man said give it here ,went to their site gas tank and filled it. it was there i got the clip on to old style screw conector. never looked back since.
 
Last edited:
Allen
It doesn't matter if I've ever filled a bottle or not.
It may be presumptious to say it, but I will, and that is, that most M/Homers on the Forums don't have your expertise or experience on LPG matters. I wonder how many have heard of a Krugg pump, let alone considered buying one.
The Refillable Bottle is made for the Gas Ignorant Majority, it may fail, nothing is absolutely 100% safe.
So for the sake of say £200 you get something developed by Professionals (I hope)designed to take as much risk as is practicable out of filling gas bottles on the garage forecourt. Otherwise what the hell is the point of making these bottles? Are they just for the gullible?
Hey what don't I understand about English, I can talk GIBberish (joke)thats nearly English!
 
yes i do think the refillable bottles at 200quid are made for gullable folk, they are in my mind made to a poor standard of safety.
i cant speak giberish well not like you. can use a bit of berber or arabic. that works in giberish land if you are buying fish n chips . any way stop monkeying around . anyone want a demo of how to fill a bottle please feel free to visit me . or ask me when you see me on the road.
by the way just given purple dreams a new coat .very shiney now. do you want that old merc to have a touch up. hee hee look nice with a good wash n polish.
hard hat on low flying missiles expected . see you next winter. give my regards to your better half. xx alan.. alan... not allen. ..hee hee .
 
Are you sure you spell Allen as Alan you know what your spelling's like.
I hope for your sake that by now everyone's thoroughly bored by this thread and haven't read your comments re the gullibility of those who have bought refillables.
I think I've lost the battle against rust haven't washed, let alone polished the van since getting back.
I think we can agree that the light box truck (apart from fuel usage) a la Bob 's is the best all round selfbuild M/home base, unfortunately that's not how it's seen by many campsite clubs/owners insurers and authorities. Even my conventional panel van conversion is getting to be more problematical, but thats a whole new thread......you start it!!
Yes, I know, I'm getting my apostrophes in the wrong places.
 
Last edited:
Many Thanks for the constructive replies so far. I think I have sourced the fittings to fill Camping Gaz 907 cylinders from a forecourt pump.

Brownhills Accessory Store
Brownhills Accessory Store
Brownhills Accessory Store

I am not deterred by the obssesive H&S fanatics, because I am well aware of the dangers of overfilling, and would accurately weigh the cylinder beforehand, not putting in any more than a professionally filled 907 cylinder would weigh.

But is the forecourt gas about the same as Camping Gaz butane, in terms of pressure, and weight?
(Although I know the gas the hardware shop in Albir (Spain) puts in 907 cylinders is not the same as Camping Gaz because the Spanish gas burns much better at low temperatures)
 
right i am sure that you will find lpg burns ok. hopefully it will have a higher portion of propane. thats why it can burn at low temperatures .
i once took a 19 kg propane bottle into africa and did refill my camping gas bottles .(they fitted the vw gas cuboard better. )trouble was in africa the price of exchange 907 was only 60p . still only a quid in maroc. i carried the big bottle on the roof wrapped in black cloth . i let it warm up before decanting so the extra pressure aided the filling process . its best to have the top bottle warm and the bottom bottle cool.
you may find it easier to just decant from a bigger bottle . i very often decant from a 47kg bottle or a big gas tank.
as an observation all over africa and southern europe gas bottles are carried in trucks open to the sun. possibly hundreds of them. you see the trucks every where . havent heard of the safety valves poping or bottles exploding. it gets very hot in mid africa .i,m sure if bottles kept poping safety valves they would protect them from the sun. and many times you get them to fil your bottle if you weigh it its well over the kg you want .just take it somewhere out of the way and let enough out to put it to the required weight. remo sell gas bottle weighing scales . like old fashioned parcel spring balances .
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the reply. Being a tightwad I would prefer to fill my (Camping Gaz) 907 bottles from a forecourt pump, rather than other gas bottles, because a forecourt pump seems the cheapest.
I was just concerned if LPG was at a higher pressure or different weight than that in 907 (butane) bottles. (since I would be measuring it by weight if the 907 bottles were not completely empty). I gather propane is at a higher pressure than butane.
I don't know what gas the Spanish put in them. I only know it burns better than the gas Camping Gaz put in.
 
No, autogas isn't the same as butane. Iso-Butane is different again. In UK autogas is mostly propane. It may have varying proportions of propane, butane and other gases. Pure liquid propane develops a pressure of 110psi at 70F while liquid Butane is about 1/5 that.

Are your appliances set up to use propane or a mixture.
Is your regulator the correct pressure for a mixture.
 
in practice i have found it doesnt matter if you use a butane or a propane regulator. it did at one time bother me. but while travelling and having to get what ever gas you could put in what ever bottles you had .i found it makes no noticable differance. in germany they use 30mbr or 50 mbr .both use both gases .if you use uk 28mbr /37mbr regulators i have put both gases through either. it works . possibly that will be frowned on by the sceptis as well. i have experimented with manual adjustable regs as well but not really found them necasary.
 
Tony Lee said:
Are your appliances set up to use propane or a mixture.
Is your regulator the correct pressure for a mixture.
Click to expand...

I've got a Camping Gaz cooker complete with regulator but never use it.

I just have 2 Camping Gaz 907 gas bottles, and screw Camping Gaz gas rings into the top. (plus 2 spare bottles and a spare gas ring) They don't have regulators - just a tap with the gas ring above it.
I have built the galley around this. My thinking being without any pipes or regulators there is less to go wrong (leak) Plus with each gas ring being completely independent of the other, if one fails I still have the other. I can also remove the cooker and gas from the van in a jiffy, if necessary. (its still registered as a van)

The arrangement works well enough for me, so I am reluctant to change it. Its just a very expensive way to buy gas, about 6 times the price in a forecourt pump, and more difficult to find a supplier. Feeling the weight of the empty ones size for size the 907 bottles appear stronger than Gaslow bottles, which would be expensive and require installation, including piping etc which would be an additional safety risk. I carry a good quality scale to weigh the 907 bottles, remarkable how much the weight of filled bottles varies, I would fill to the weight of the lowest weight of bottles I have bought. If I could refill them from a forecourt pump that would be ideal!

I don't need to be reminded how dangerous liquid gas is. No one is more concerned about the safety of these bottles than me because I sleep in the van with them.
 
bernard ,as alan says , the appliances seem to work ok irrespective of the regulator ...which is why they now all use a 30Mb regulator [ personally I use 28 /30/37Mb regulators for both gases

with regard to filling with butane or propane , at a given temperature propane will have the higher pressure ; for that reason it is imperative that you lower the fill quantity ie instead of filling a 907 with 5.5 litres of butane which is normal , you fill with 5 litres of lpg [ otherwise known as industrial grade propane

hate to tell you , but your filling set of 3 bits won't work ; to do what you want you need the piece which screws into the 907 , then an adaptor from that to the pump

I understand that those are sold on Ebay .....you now have the standard left hand thread on your 907 , same as a german/french /dutch/ belgian bottle , so shouldn't be too hard to find , alan will no doubt advise [ I had mine all turned from solid brass 25 years ago ]
 
lebesset said:
hate to tell you , but your filling set of 3 bits won't work ; to do what you want you need the piece which screws into the 907 , then an adaptor from that to the pump
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. But I couldn't see anything on ebay which appeared to fit the 907. I was thinking of this on the 907; Camping Gaz Adaptor - 01-1665
weblink; Brownhills Accessory Store which obviously fits Camping Gaz, although I don't know whether the inside diameter would be wide enough to fill the bottle in a reasonable time. It appears to be designed for taking the gas out, rather than putting it in which obviously needs to be done quicker on the forecourt.

connected to this hose; Butane 4.5kg Hose - 01-6010
weblink; Brownhills Accessory Store

connected to this filler to connect to the forecourt pump; Bayonet Flush Filler - 01-4350 weblink; Brownhills Accessory Store

I live only a couple of miles from Brownhills Newark and had a look at them yesterday. Although the fittings were in plastic packets so I couldn't try them to see if they screw together.

When I bought them I could ask the shop if they fit together and try them.
Do you think this would work?
 
they don't screw together
one end of the hose is for the adaptor on the 907
the other is for an on board regulator

in any case , wouldn't use a loose hose personally
 
hi to fill camping gas at a pump. you need to change it to a thread that will take the pump adaptors . i use camping gas to old butane thread adaptor then have a propane bulkhead fitting that as been converted in a machine shop to have a left hand threaded nut to fit the lefthand thread that we used to use on butane. then i use the adaptors sold on e bay ....having said that i normally have the camping to butane adaptor then high pressure hose to a male propane fitting and decant bottle to bottle. cant be bothered to put just a little bit in a bottle at the pumps . i fill a big bottle and decant at my leisure . get several fills from a 19kg bottle.
dont think the adapters as shown from brown hills will all join together. as i,m sure you would be mixing lh and rh threads.
 
with regard to filling with butane or propane , at a given temperature propane will have the higher pressure ; for that reason it is imperative that you lower the fill quantity ie instead of filling a 907 with 5.5 litres of butane which is normal , you fill with 5 litres of lpg [ otherwise known as industrial grade propane
Click to expand...

Why is it imperative.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Back
Top