Filling UK gas bottle in Europe

for the same reason that every company in the world who sells these gases in bottles does
 
in uk you get the same size bottle butane as 15g propane as 13kg .. and i,m sure you will find marked on a calor bottle test pressure 349bar. so that covers the 200 bar increase tony mentioned. calor use blue for butane red for propane but do actually use repainted bottles that cross over. even so it really isnt that important to just think 80 percent . the tank in my garden regularly gets filled to98 percent . it sits in the sun so i do hope it doesnt explod it as 1200 litres in it . ok not quite.
i assume lebbeset is working on the safe side . best to do that . hee hee ,
 
yes , I'm a bit belt and braces which is why I like the measured fill system [ by volume , not weight ]

just looked at calor site as most here seem to be british

dumpy bottle 4.5Kg butane , 3.9Kg propane

medium bottle 7Kg butane , 6Kg propane


exactly as alan says ...in the uk they fit a different valve , both in other countries the bottles are mostly identical , so in spain you get

repsol 12.5Kg butane , 11Kg propane identical bottle except for the label

france energas 10Kg butane , 9 Kg propane ...here they just put a different coloured paper label around the collar so they can just fill all bottles with whatever gas they need that day ; this company actually marks the bottles with the TRUE content ...industrial grade butane or industrial grade propane because no company puts in an unpolluted gas

and so on and so forth

ps for alan ; considering venturing back to maroc after a gap of some years ; if used to be that butagas was the most popular brand ..is that still so ? or will the vendor take any french bottle ? bet the price still makes the spanish €1/kilo look expensive
 
Last edited:
Hi lebesset,

The bit I don't understand is;-

At a given temperature propane will have the higher pressure for that reason it is imperative that you lower the fill quantity

Surely if you put 1 or 5 litres in the pressure is just the same.

Richard
 
yes i think they will take just abouany french bottle butagas total atlas gas,sometimes red or blue or green, in the north they dont seem to care . in the very south they like to keep to yellow and green paint and may not take others .then you cant get rid of one of the green /yellow in the north. very expensive 45 dirham a bottle 13 kg and 10dh for camping gas.
to be honest we left maroc a month early this year. its changing so fast i find it not pleasant anymore. much more police hassle for free parking and many campsites up to 1000dh a night .so i,m told. may never go again i felt that bad about it.
also its almost like eu now nrw cars trucks every where. no longer a third world country .
many of my mates are talking about taking a sea bridge ferry to the states or south america this winter .could make a change. the boat goes from hamburg .
 
T bear
propane is a gas at ambient temperatures ; pressure liquifies it
because of the higher pressure to which you correctly refer , you need to leave extra volume for the gas to liquify into in case of a rise in temperature , without the pressure increasing or liquid rising to the point where it could go 'up the spout '

bear in mind that the 80% 'rule ' allows for the fact that these bottles could be sitting in the sun at 50C , ok , a bit belt and braces as alan keeps going on about , but better that than the converse

I am told that calor actually fill some butane bottles to well over 80% ...hardly dangerous in the british climate

many people seem to regard the 8-10 bar pressure of gas bottles as high ...in reality truck tyres run at similar pressures !!!! and there are now GRP lpg bottles ; if you want high pressure get an oxygen cylinder ...200 bar or a scuba air tank ...300 bar ...I presume the steel is better quality than lpg tanks

at the other extreme when you squirt some furniture polish out of an aerosol the propellant is probably propane !!! but as the container is about the thickness of a razor blade the fill is probably something like 10 % !

alan ..tks for that ; she who must be obeyed is agin it anyway , so sounds like the end of it
and hamburg to the USA ...much better roro europort to jacksonville , florida may be the pits but from there it is an easy trip down to mexico where you would feel right at home , especially when you saw an old pickup running on lpg , bottle of gas in the back , rubber tube running into the carb via a hole in the air filter ; alternatively I40 across to NM/arizona fabulous in the winter desert weather [ try quartsite ] of course for that you will have to get over the rockies at flagstaff , so go early in case of snow [ if not they do a public lecture series christmas / new year at the lowell observatory , well worth attending as you get a tour as well
 
Last edited:
lebesset said:
for the same reason that every company in the world who sells these gases in bottles does
Click to expand...


Has absolutely nothing to do with the different pressures of Butane and Propane. That same pressure/temperature relationship is there whether the bottle is 99% full of liquid or 1% full of liquid.
Does have to do with allowing a greater safety margin in what is essentially an automated process filling bottles with no overfill prevention valve -- and of course charging considerably more money for considerably less gas might have something to do with it as well.


Many of the bottles seem to be clearly marked either "Butane" or "Propane" but once it is refilled from an autogas dispenser, that marking is likely to be wrong. Does this matter??

propane is a gas at ambient temperatures ; pressure liquifies it
because of the higher pressure to which you correctly refer , you need to leave extra volume for the gas to liquify into in case of a rise in temperature , without the pressure increasing or liquid rising to the point where it could go 'up the spout '
Click to expand...

Sigh!!!!!!

This really is getting more outlandish as the thread progresses.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[PDF]
Auto LPG - Speed
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
Liquid LPG evaporates to produce about 250 times its volume of gas. ... pressure increases rapidly with temperature. (See vapour pressure chart). ...
www.speedfuels.com/Link.aspx?Mkey=NTI=&lKey=Mg==
Click to expand...

This pdf document will answer many questions regarding LPG and perhaps needs to be compulsory reading.

A few relevant quotes

3. Co-efficient of Expansion of Liquid
Co-efficient of expansion of liquid LPG is approximately 12 times that of water. This
property in conjunction with liquid density should be taken into consideration for arriving at
safe filling capacities of containers.
Click to expand...

Liquid LPG evaporates to produce about 250 times its volume of gas.
Click to expand...

1. Liquid Density
LPG in the liquid state is nearly half as heavy as water. Specific gravity ranges from 0.55 –
0.58. Knowledge of this property helps us in calculating the safe quantities that can be filled
in a given container whose volume is known. An LPG container should be filled in such a
way that there will be a 5% ullage left at the design temperature, otherwise, as temperature
rises excessive pressures are likely to be encountered leading to bursting of cylinders.
Click to expand...

2. Vapour Specific Gravity
LPG vapour is nearly 1 ½ to 2 times as heavy as air. This would mean that any escaping
vapours of LPG would tend to settle down. Hence, there should be adequate ground level
ventilation where LPG cylinders are stored.
Click to expand...

4. Vapour Pressure
This is the most important property of LPG. The vapour of LPG in equilibrium with its liquid
exerts a pressure called the vapour pressure and the magnitude of this pressure is
dependent on the ambient temperature and not on the quantity of the contents. Vapour
pressure increases rapidly with temperature. (See vapour pressure chart). Boiling point of a liquid is that temperature at which the vapour pressure of the liquid equals atmospheric pressure. Since boiling point of LPG is below 0°C the pressure inside a cylinder is always higher than the atmospheric pressure for temperatures above °C and hence, this is the reason that gas gushes out of a cylinder when the valve is opened.
From this it naturally follows that LPG cannot be withdrawn in the vapour state from cylinders when the temperature outside is below its boiling point.
Since, as already mentioned, the vapour pressure is dependent on the temperature and not on the quantity of the contents two points emerge from this property of LPG.
a) As external equipment i.e. a pressure regulator is needed for obtaining gas at a constant pressure for use in appliances irrespective of the ambient temperature.
b) Fitment of a pressure gauge to a cylinder cannot indicate the quantity of gas contained unlike in the case of oxygen or other gas cylinders where the gas is contained in the gaseous state and the pressure inside is gaseous pressure.
Click to expand...
 
just about every thing you highlighted as been covered in the pevious posts .worded slightly different but all covered . you may try to complicate as much as you want but its abit like water on a ducks back.
open bottle when empty ,weigh the bottle empty. (or see tare on bottle).fill required amount approx twice the weight quoted on bottle . after filling reweigh and check, if overfilled let some gas out . ideally dont talk or get disturbed while doing all this . easy isnt it.
if you dont want to do it then exchange your bottle.
shall we talk about a frames now or something else like water filters ps. most bottles are marked propane and butane .giving the required amounts to fill.
 
Last edited:
Who was that footballer every one was talking about yesterday......
 
i dont know but all footballers and the supporters should be gassed . there low flying words heading this way.
 
What type of gas makes the biggest BANG !
I suppose the people who know, are not around any more! :ninja::juggle:


Lorry :drive:
 
stanley mathews or do you mean bernard mathews he's just died:dance:
 
Tony Lee said:
....................
LPG in the liquid state is nearly half as heavy as water. Specific gravity ranges from 0.55 – 0.58............
Click to expand...

I believe the specific gravity of water is 1.0
So if its nearly half as heavy as water the specific gravity would be less than 0.5.
 
Gas Bottles - SafeFill

I haven't read this thread - Sorry.

But has everybody seen the new SafeFill bottle?
Home | Safefill

We have had some in for customers - very impressive.
 
TOWtal said:
I haven't read this thread - Sorry.

But has everybody seen the new SafeFill bottle?
Home | Safefill

We have had some in for customers - very impressive.
Click to expand...

Are they only refillable in the UK?
there seem to be no European suppliers on the larger map,
or would we need adapters?

Lorry :drive:
 
You should read the Thread, as some of the the Posts reckon "non refillables" are perfectly OK to self refill. Therefore buying the SafeFills would be wasting money,based on the presumption that the equivalent volume SafeFill would cost more?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Back
Top