Wales 20mph limit starts Sept 17th - a heads-up

Rolyan57 said:
No one can debate the physics. In some respects that’s almost irrelevant.

The only debate is whether blanket reductions applied across a whole country is an appropriate and necessary step.

There are various A roads where a reduction to 50 would be an improvement. But I wouldn’t like to see a blanket reduction on all A roads.

Alternatively, I know several roads near me, currently at 30mph, that could be safely increased to 40pmh. But I definitely wouldn’t want that increase applied to all 30mph.

That’s the issue, the blanket change.
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You seem to forget that there are already blanket restrictions to speeds on all roads in the UK, be that 'built up areas', 'rural roads', 'motorway', or whatever. IMO a large percentage of these will be inappropriate, be that to high or to low, but that's what is seen as the best way to control those who can't judge a 'safe' speed.
 
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marchie said:
As Max Boyce said: 'My grandad was still going on runs with Rugby Club at 70; and that's a hell of a speed for an old man to run at ...' :ROFLMAO:

Steve
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Can't quite remember who it was now Steve, but I think it was Uncle Albert in Fools and Horses.

They drove past a road sign with a silhouette of a running Deer and underneath it said 'For 10 Miles'.

Uncle Albert said "Christ, they'll be knackered"
 
Fisherman said:
Have you not read my first line.
I made my position perfectly clear in relation to this policy.
My post was purely in relation to someone being struck by a car at 30mph, versus 20mph. A previous poster questioning this . I also gave an example regarding my neighbour who fortunately survived being struck by a car earlier this year.
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Yes, I read your first line.

As I said, I don’t think anyone can question the physics. 20mph will cause less damage than 30mph. So will 25mph. For that matter so would 10mph.

Reducing motorway limits to 40mph would probably result in a reduction in KSI.

But rightly or wrongly, society accepts that a number of deaths is a price worth paying for the efficiency and effectiveness of the transport system.

My main point remains: that the other poster is wrong to suggest that journey times won’t be affected.
 
The laird said:
Don't think it will effect me

wales are not wanting motorhomes I was led to believe so we don't bovver to visit any more so sad
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Well so far no problem exccccept fer one BMW owner who obviously didn't like me traveling at 50 as he sped past honking his horn and the ole ✌🏻sign given. Twonk
The 20 thing, well I agree with some of the places and we have them on the island, but some had me wondering. Gave the ole clutch n gearbox a good work out.
 
colinm said:
You seem to forget that there are already blanket restrictions to speeds on all roads in the UK, be that 'built up areas', 'rural roads', 'motorway', or whatever. IMO a large percentage of these will be inappropriate, be that to high or to low, but that's what is seen as the best way to control those who can't judge a 'safe' speed.
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No, I haven’t forgotten that ‘blanket’ rules apply (E.g. a motorway is 70mph unless posted less).

That is done purely to keep the process of implementation and maintenance of those limits simple.

But that principle doesn’t make every blanket change acceptable; this is one of those instances.
 
Rolyan57 said:
That’s a very weak argument; provide data that is not currently available, or just accept your hypothesis.

Fortunately that’s not how it works. What I can say is that if the speed limit is 30mph (which it is on all my 15 mile journey to work), my average would be slightly less as I tend not to knowingly speed. If the speed limit was 20mph then my average would be slightly less as I tend not to knowingly speed.

The journey time would take longer. For you suggest that no one travels at 30mph on 30mph roads is disengenious at best. However, I’m happy if you deny the above and hold a different opinion.
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You are CORRECT: the data is not available!
Your 15 mile journey at 30mph would take you 30 minutes.
Your 15 mile journey at 20mph would take you 45 minutes.
IF you feel that your 15 minutes is more important than any lives which might potentially be lost then that is your opinion, and you have justified your choice by referring to society balancing speed against transport requirements.
HOWEVER, you admit to your average being less than 30mph so are you prepared to share typical journey times (average speeds)? Personally, I would be interested to know where your commute occurs, as a 15 mile urban trip without traffic lights, roundabouts, etc whilst remaining in a 30mph limit is intriguing.

Checking back through my posts I cannot see where I have stated that journey times WOULD not increase, simply that they wouldn't increase by 50% because of other driving constraints. I even hope that times will not increase noticeably because when vehicles travel at similar speeds there is less speeding up and slowing down.
Here is an example: to drive to my daughter's house I have to turn right from a moderately-busy main road into her housing estate. 10-20% of the time I'm able to swing in without stopping but in most cases I have to come to a halt AND so do any vehicles behind me. I sit there (and so do they) until I spot a large enough gap or someone signals me to cross in front of them: typically this might be 30seconds.

I estimate that. from a standing start, it is going to take me 2 seconds to reach safety.
30mph is approximately 15 feet per second so I need a gap of 30 feet.
20mph is 10 fps, so a gap of 20 feet will suffice.

I don't know if vehicles will maintain current gaps, making it more likely that I'll get across with a shorter delay OR if cars travelling at 20mph will be more prepared to allow me over. However, I hope that a gentler pace of driving will engender greater consideration for other people, although I suspect that some folk who are regretting all their lost minutes might be more aggressive. Also, obviously, slower vehicles may drive closer together, so large gaps would be less frequent. We don't have the data so it's all conjecture.

Gordon
 
In Cardiff the average weighted median speed dropped from 22.6mph to 19.7mph since the new limit was introduced. That in a 15mile journey would give times of 40mins and 46mins respectively. A difference of only SIX minutes in real life observation. Apparently those averages were pretty much the same in the other places checked (Wrexham and Rhyl).

road.cc

"Far more pleasant for walkers and cyclists": 20mph speed limit analysis hailed "astonishing", with drivers' journeys just 45 seconds longer

Transport and public health data analysts have studied the numbers from the first week of Wales' default 20mph speed limit, with one concluding the results are "far greater than would have been predicted"
road.cc road.cc
 
I drove to Sophia Gardens in centre of Cardiff last month and AFAIK the speed limits along route we took were unchanged from earlier in year.
 
colinm said:
I drove to Sophia Gardens in centre of Cardiff last month and AFAIK the speed limits along route we took were unchanged from earlier in year.
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Careful, you would have drive at least a couple of miles of "areas of restricted speed" to get to Sophia Gardens. Ie urban roads with regular street lighting. Before the change the default (unless signs show differently) was 30mph now it is 20mph! Don't expect new signs once you enter an urban area and see your first 20. Coming from the M4 you would have seen those on North road or Eastern/Western Ave. The only necessity for 20 signs are when you leave a 30/40 or 50 zones
 
Glandwr said:
Careful, you would have drive at least a couple of miles of "areas of restricted speed" to get to Sophia Gardens. Ie urban roads with regular street lighting. Before the change the default (unless signs show differently) was 30mph now it is 20mph! Don't expect new signs once you enter an urban area and see your first 20. Coming from the M4 you would have seen those on North road or Eastern/Western Ave. The only necessity for 20 signs are when you leave a 30/40 or 50 zones
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The route we took in included urban areas that had 40, 30, and 20 mph signs, it was the same earlier in year.
 
colinm said:
The route we took in included urban areas that had 40, 30, and 20 mph signs, it was the same earlier in year.
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As far as I know you can only access the MH parking in Sophia Gardens via Cathedral Rd. That was a 30mph restricted area before the change over. Now it is 20mph although no sign on the road itself.
 
Glandwr said:
As far as I know you can only access the MH parking in Sophia Gardens via Cathedral Rd. That was a 30mph restricted area before the change over. Now it is 20mph although no sign on the road itself.
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just checked google maps and photo from march 2023 shows 20mph down there. i.e. it's just the same now as was back then
 
Could be but I know that Llandaff road the feed to Cathedral road that I regularly use on my way in and out of the city was definitely 30 now 20.
 
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