Wales 20mph limit starts Sept 17th - a heads-up

[GMJ]

We had a drive out yesterday to Llandeilo and it has only reinforced my support of the new law. It looks to be sensibly enacted in villages around here, in that outskirts are still 30 but inside the villages we are now doing 20. Llandeilo itself will certainly benefit from the new law as anyone who has walked down the high street will profess, as its very narrow.

 

[Geek]

The difference in speed, it's quite dramatic and convinced me that should I hit someone there would be a much more serious outcome.

It's a 50% speed increase, so of course it feels dramatic, particularly as it will happen quickly.
If you travel one mile at 20mph it will take three minutes.

Going at 30mph would save you one minute. However, you're much less likely to sustain 30mph for a while mile in an urban area.

 

[Neckender]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710243200261353525

 

[Thistle]

We crawled through Wrexham last weekend with the CC set to 22 which is 20 via GPS. We were overtaken and cut up regularly by the usual chavs, taxis, etc. but just to add to the insult we were undertaken by several bicycles and overtaken by a tractor.

There may have been others but I was to distracted concentrating on obeying the limit.

What I have noticed is how easy it is to quickly overshoot 20 when negotiating roundabouts etc when having to concentrate on more important things like other drivers!

 

[colinm]

As I've posted before, we have had 20 limits for decades, I find it no trouble at all sticking to limit. On the way up M1 today entered speed limit for congestion at the usual place, lots where speeding, cameras where flashing so often it was like a strobe, then brake lights coming on as they slammed on to avoid the queue.

 

[mark61]

Virtually all the roads round here are 20 limits and have been for many years, I'm pretty much surrounded by the blooming things.

I have no trouble sticking to the limit either, (if/when I choose) that doesn't mean I think a blanket 20MPH limit is a good idea, in fact it's the exact opposite of a good idea.

 

[Glandwr]

I think that many will find it easier to stick to the speed limit when it is the default limit in restricted areas.

 

[Sharon the Cat]

There are plenty of 30kph limits in France these days, although usually for shorter distances. A less blanket-like approach than Wales.

 

[Glandwr]

The whole of Paris restricted roads have been 30kph for 2/3 years now and many cities are set to follow.

 

[Rolyan57]

Today I drove through Fakenham: yes, 30mph for the first 100metres, then LH turn over a bridge, roundabout, 20m to next roundabout, 20mph limit for 100m (slowed to allow large lorry to swing out from RH road), double roundabout, 100m to narrow section of road (stopped to let truck through in opposite direction), 200m to large lorry reversing on opposite side of road (slowed just in case), 100m to Give Way junction (stopped until traffic was clear enough to turn right) 200m to roundabout, turn left, 50m to 40mph limit. At no time was my passage affected by traffic in front of me driving in my direction.
I suspect that averaging 20mph would have been optimistic.

Gordon

There will always be extremes examples. But in general, most routes that are currently 30 can safely travelled at 30, and will be affected by reducing that by 1/3. To suggest otherwise is a weak attempt to justify the change. There may be benefits (that’s debatable) but no change to overall journey times is not one of them.

 

[Rolyan57]

There are plenty of 30kph limits in France these days, although usually for shorter distances. A less blanket-like approach than Wales.

Blanket bans are never an appropriate response.

 

[Fisherman]

There will always be extremes examples. But in general, most routes that are currently 30 can safely travelled at 30, and will be affected by reducing that by 1/3. To suggest otherwise is a weak attempt to justify the change. There may be benefits (that’s debatable) but no change to overall journey times is not one of them.

I don’t agree with what Wales have done, so let’s get that out of the way.
But there’s nothing to debate about the one main advantage, and that’s not a weak argument.
If you are struck by a vehicle at 20mph you have a much greater chance of surviving than if you are struck at 30mph.
My neighbour was struck by a car travelling at 30mph whilst out running earlier this year, she had only a 10% chance of surviving, and thankfully she did and is on the way to a full recovery albeit with metal In various parts of her body.
If she had been struck at 20mph, she would have had a 90% chance of survival, spent much less time in hospital (she was 4 months in hospital), probably would have avoided any metal implants, and her quality of life particularly in her old age would be a lot better.
However I don’t think a carpet 20mph speed limit is the correct way forward.
This should be limited to certain places, outside schools etc, and only at certain times as is done in Scotland. Modern vehicles have much better breaking systems than when these limits were set up many years ago, also we are not driving about with 1mm of tread on our tyres today. But let’s at least fully acknowledge the one main advantage without any debate.
But I am noticing more and more 20mph limits up here now, and knowing the SNP they are bound to follow Wales.

 

[Biggarmac]

In the Scottish Borders Council area a 20 mph limit was put on all towns and villages which had 30 limits. After a trial period adjustments have been made. In most its now just the central cores which are 20 with 30 and some 40 leading up to them. You get used to it.

 

[mark61]

Absolutely, you'll get used to it.

Roll on 15MPH limits.

 

[Fisherman]

In the Scottish Borders Council area a 20 mph limit was put on all towns and villages which had 30 limits. After a trial period adjustments have been made. In most its now just the central cores which are 20 with 30 and some 40 leading up to them. You get used to it.

I suppose you get used to most things eventually, but that does not justify carte Blanche carpet speed limits with all of the disadvantages this brings.
I would hate to be someone trying to make a living in Wales which involves a lot of driving right now.

 

[Norfolk NewBoy]

There will always be extremes examples. But in general, most routes that are currently 30 can safely travelled at 30, and will be affected by reducing that by 1/3. To suggest otherwise is a weak attempt to justify the change. There may be benefits (that’s debatable) but no change to overall journey times is not one of them.

I don't consider my driving to be extreme (and I'm talking about my 2.5litre petrol car, not my lumbering motorhome ).
Two days later I timed myself whilst trying to drive as quickly as possible WITHIN THE LIMIT OF 30MPH and my average speed was 18mph, despite actually hitting 32mph on a couple of stretches.

Perhaps where you live or drive frequently there aren't any traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, road junctions, dithering dolly daydreamers, etc? I would be grateful for a description of a journey in an urban area where you have averaged 30mph within a 30mph limit, preferably across a range of dates and times. Unless you have evidence to suggest otherwise, please accept that journey times are not going to increase significantly (but accidents resulting in death or serious injury will).

Gordon

 

[mariesnowgoose]

6k views.

Wow!

Didn't realise so many people were obsessed with speed!

 

[Rolyan57]

I don’t agree with what Wales have done, so let’s get that out of the way.
But there’s nothing to debate about the one main advantage, and that’s not a weak argument.
If you are struck by a vehicle at 20mph you have a much greater chance of surviving than if you are struck at 30mph.
My neighbour was struck by a car travelling at 30mph whilst out running earlier this year, she had only a 10% chance of surviving, and thankfully she did and is on the way to a full recovery albeit with metal In various parts of her body.
If she had been struck at 20mph, she would have had a 90% chance of survival, spent much less time in hospital (she was 4 months in hospital), probably would have avoided any metal implants, and her quality of life particularly in her old age would be a lot better.
However I don’t think a carpet 20mph speed limit is the correct way forward.
This should be limited to certain places, outside schools etc, and only at certain times as is done in Scotland. Modern vehicles have much better breaking systems than when these limits were set up many years ago, also we are not driving about with 1mm of tread on our tyres today. But let’s at least fully acknowledge the one main advantage without any debate.
But I am noticing more and more 20mph limits up here now, and knowing the SNP they are bound to follow Wales.

No one can debate the physics. In some respects that’s almost irrelevant.

The only debate is whether blanket reductions applied across a whole country is an appropriate and necessary step.

There are various A roads where a reduction to 50 would be an improvement. But I wouldn’t like to see a blanket reduction on all A roads.

Alternatively, I know several roads near me, currently at 30mph, that could be safely increased to 40pmh. But I definitely wouldn’t want that increase applied to all 30mph.

That’s the issue, the blanket change.

 

[Rolyan57]

I don't consider my driving to be extreme (and I'm talking about my 2.5litre petrol car, not my lumbering motorhome ).
Two days later I timed myself whilst trying to drive as quickly as possible WITHIN THE LIMIT OF 30MPH and my average speed was 18mph, despite actually hitting 32mph on a couple of stretches.

Perhaps where you live or drive frequently there aren't any traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, road junctions, dithering dolly daydreamers, etc? I would be grateful for a description of a journey in an urban area where you have averaged 30mph within a 30mph limit, preferably across a range of dates and times. Unless you have evidence to suggest otherwise, please accept that journey times are not going to increase significantly (but accidents resulting in death or serious injury will).

Gordon

That’s a very weak argument; provide data that is not currently available, or just accept your hypothesis.

Fortunately that’s not how it works. What I can say is that if the speed limit is 30mph (which it is on all my 15 mile journey to work), my average would be slightly less as I tend not to knowingly speed. If the speed limit was 20mph then my average would be slightly less as I tend not to knowingly speed.

The journey time would take longer. For you suggest that no one travels at 30mph on 30mph roads is disengenious at best. However, I’m happy if you deny the above and hold a different opinion.

 

[Fisherman]

No one can debate the physics. In some respects that’s almost irrelevant.

The only debate is whether blanket reductions applied across a whole country is an appropriate and necessary step.

There are various A roads where a reduction to 50 would be an improvement. But I wouldn’t like to see a blanket reduction on all A roads.

Alternatively, I know several roads near me, currently at 30mph, that could be safely increased to 40pmh. But I definitely wouldn’t want that increase applied to all 30mph.

That’s the issue, the blanket change.

Have you not read my first line.
I made my position perfectly clear in relation to this policy.
My post was purely in relation to someone being struck by a car at 30mph, versus 20mph. A previous poster questioning this . I also gave an example regarding my neighbour who fortunately survived being struck by a car earlier this year.