student s hi jinks in london

shawbags said:
So what your saying is no matter what the government take off us we should grin and bare it,its only hapening more so now because people have had enough of the government treating us like fools.Lets go back to scargil and the minors thatcher as good as tried to starve them to death and because it did not effect us we mostly sat back and tried to egnore it,the problem with us is we don't stick together any more and sit back with the "i'm alright jack" atitude,how much more should we take.I'm not saying rebel against the government just stand up and be counted eventualy they would have to listen.
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i agree totaly ,thatchers tory government did try to starve us out and when she found out that was not realy working ,she payed to start a new union the democratic miners union to go back to work thats what broke the num miners, and the army that were dressed up as police. any way it wasnot only the mines that suffered in those times .the steel industry dident fair too well did it in fact about that time most of our manufacturing capability went down the pan and what happens now we import coal that is the dirtiest and hily polutant we buy our steel from india .even that small amount we do produce the proffits go out of this country as tata owns it the only time that thatchers government was made to do a u turn was the poltax riots and the only reason was WE STUCK TOGETHER. we have a leader that beleives that thatcher was the saivior of tory ideals and apart from the hair and dress he is thatcher .with a glove puppet at his side from the liberal party who lets face it when they managed to run a government on there own made such a mess they never succeded in forming a government after as the whipping boy . we must preferably without violence if thats posible all show this government we are not going to accept the policies he is proposing ok we need to get some sort of order to our financial situation however bad that may be or not be , but not with these deep deep cuts they are proposing .
 
Just look at the role the students played in the French Revolution. Any government ignores them at their peril, after all they are full of fire and ambition, or should be, they are looking to the future, and they have the sympathy of the population because they are our sons and daughters.
 
bigal said:
5. It is your problem if you cannot follow the thread of someone elses arguement.
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Absolutely right - I apologise for being an idiot. My defence is that when you responded to my response, I assumed, without checking, that you were the original person to whom I was responding and that you had switched your argument. Sorry!
 
bigal said:
Just look at the role the students played in the French Revolution. Any government ignores them at their peril, after all they are full of fire and ambition, or should be, they are looking to the future, and they have the sympathy of the population because they are our sons and daughters.
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just think if we stuck together as they do, and we joined ranks with them .then the powers to be would have to listen to us
 
and I don't fancy having the government decide who might or not be useful in the future (sounds a bit like 1984 to me!). ......................... to me the government are at this moment deciding who are usefull and who are not . as the cuts seem selective to me the cuts to public spending will affect the lower end of the food chain and not the upper end of the public sector .not only are they wanting to in percentage terms cut the jobs of the blue collar workers in favor of the white collar staff who sit in there offices and waste money given them out of our pockets, but are also decemating pension entitelment to the people that are at the front line of our services, nurses, fire men, and the police on the streets , not to mention the guy that empties our bins and keeps the streets clean, and all the other workers we need to look after our needs there are many many more that are facing a bleak future . but i must agree with you the bankers who realy call the shots in this country and caused this mess get off scot free.
 
mandrake said:
and I don't fancy having the government decide who might or not be useful in the future (sounds a bit like 1984 to me!). ......................... to me the government are at this moment deciding who are usefull and who are not . as the cuts seem selective to me the cuts to public spending will affect the lower end of the food chain and not the upper end of the public sector .not only are they wanting to in percentage terms cut the jobs of the blue collar workers in favor of the white collar staff who sit in there offices and waste money given them out of our pockets, but are also decemating pension entitelment to the people that are at the front line of our services, nurses, fire men, and the police on the streets , not to mention the guy that empties our bins and keeps the streets clean, and all the other workers we need to look after our needs there are many many more that are facing a bleak future . but i must agree with you the bankers who realy call the shots in this country and caused this mess get off scot free.
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Agree totally with your analysis - but would split hairs by saying that the government isn't deciding so much who will be useful, rather they are deciding who will benefit - and it ain't the people you correctly list!
 
mandrake said:
just think if we stuck together as they do, and we joined ranks with them .then the powers to be would have to listen to us
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Exactly. The problem then would be in having a consolidated opinion, manifesto, arguement that belonged to the majority of the people that we could impose upon the government to act upon in our interests. But don't we all really know whose interests the government has at heart, i.e it's own and the banks'.
 
as we dont have a thanks button, i will say it to you "thanks" and will allow your hair splitting exersise ;):D
 
If they put more time into educating our own children why would there be any need for outsiders,there are plenty of kids in our schools that could fill the boots of doctor,lawyers,bankers and no dowt the priminister already here without ****** coming over and being handed an education on a silver platter or should i say gold platter.I have always worked damned hard for my cash and never been given anything,i left school without any qualification that would have made a great deal of difference to thr curiers that i have followed,in saying that i am educated enough to be able to make better discisions then our government standing on my head after drinking 10 pints of lager.At the end of the day our government will do what they want if we don't stand together,a couple of you have mentioned the french,if they put there foot down there government have to listen because the protesters over there don't give in.
There has been a lot going on with the English deffence league at the momment and are being acused of ensiteing racism,its our government that cause the racism because of the way we are being pi*sed on from a great hight in our own country and i wonder if they are doing it on purpose for what ever reason.
Again please excuse my spelling and grammer,cheers Shawbags.
 
It's a shame that such a few rabble get so much attention from the news media. I doubt if many of the real trouble makers actually go to university.

Getting back to the main point of tution fees, given that a government decides on a budget, you can't pick & mix bits of it to suit your own situation. To me the tuition fees have no interest to me as both my kids are working (one has just finished an apprenticeship, she had to do an extra year on low pay to keep her job or leave. It is not an easy option & in some ways she has had to suffer for 4 years) From my understanding they don't have to pay any money back until they are earning a reasonable wage, many of them will go on to earn large sums of money from the rest of us. I do believe that the fees should be proportional to how useful the job they will be doing when they qualify.
If people think things like this are bad just wait until the VAT goes up :eek::eek: this will mean everything will go up (even food as the cost of producing & transport will be affected)
I have never & can never see myself ever voting for the tory party, but I believe in democracy & they won the largest share of the vote. While I disagree with many of their policies I am not prepared to accept the 'mob rules' mentality. I sympathize with anybody who conned by the liberals who seem to be willing to ditch all their promises for the sake of a bit of power & can only see them losing many seats. They have done nothing to help their views on PR or the alternative vote system as any such change would lead to more coalitions.

Well had may say & I'll leave it at that :rolleyes:
 
The Liberal Democrats were caught between a rock and a hard place. Clearly they didn't win as many votes as the Tories and therefore it's unreasonable to expect that all their policies are going to get through and therefore it's unreasonable to say they are "willing to ditch all their policies."

It is reasonable to say they had to be willing to ditch SOME of their policies. Which ones they had to ditch was to a large extent dictated by the Tories since the Tories were the senior partners. This is the compromise of coalition and it's something most of the electorate are unfamiliar with. Coalition happens in councils all over the country but at a National level people just assume some party or other wins and implements all their manifesto. As soon as something different happens, people go into "error, does not compute mode" start crying "traitors" and all sorts of illogical stuff.

The alternative was that the Liberals didn't bother to negotiate, and plunged the country into another 6 months or more of uncertainty with all the risks on the financial markets that involves. To do that would have been irresponsible of them, to say the least.

We should be grateful we at least have a stable government and are not wallowing around in political and financial turmoil like Ireland. It's easy to take what we have for granted.
 
well i apreciate your oppinion firefox but and it is a big but .the electorate vote for the party they belive in because of there policies ,thay make there promises and if you agree then you vote for a party. to ditch the majority of there ideals just to get into power then to me, and i do not vote they have betrayed there voters and more to the point they betray themselves .we all know any political party make a few wild prommises they never keep we expect that ,but what the lib dems have done is to totaly go against there beliefs, did they not say in the run up to the election that the tory partys policies were wrong ,then how could they go into power with them and support most of there policies after all they dissagreed with the tories .no they have let there voting public down and commited political suicide in the procces and as for a stable government we will have to see, 5 years is a long time how can two political parties that opposed each others manifestos agree to run a country ,unless that is, one of them bows down to the other and tows the line .
 
A couple of points:

1. Some people have talked about foreign students coming here and getting free or cheap education while English-born children have to pay to go to University. This is not so. One of the reasons why there are a lot of foreign students in English Universities is because the Universities are allowed to charge them what they like (there is no upper limit as there is with English students). Consequently, there are African students sitting next to English students, having paid as much as ten times what the English students will pay (and the foreigners have to pay upfront as well).

2. Some people have said the LibDems had no choice but to ditch some of their policies because they are the junior partner. Yes they did. This wasn't just another policy; it was one of the cornerstones of their campaign - and the reason they won so many University seats. A Party with principles would have refused to go into government, let the Tories run a minority administration and force another election in the near future, when they probably would have done a lot better (instead of facing almost certain annihilation as they do now).
 
You can say the same thing about the Tories. They have had to adopt some Liberal Democrat policy. It's just mature compromise. Clearly since the Tories won more votes/seats than the Liberals, then the majority of the policy is going to be Tory. I don't know what else anyone would expect.

It happens all the time in elections, national, local etc etc. During the leadership campaign or whatever, the gloves are off, and people state exactly what they believe. After the battle is fought, everyone has to pull together for the good of the party or the country or the council. Naturally this means people can't get everything they want. They have to sacrifice some things while gaining in other areas. Isn't it the same in all of life?

The alternative, in governmental terms, is instability, financial suicide, and anarchy.
 
(By the way, both the Liberals and Labour would have been crushed at another election because only the Tories had the money to fight it, being subsidised by Ashcroft's millions and other wealthy bankrollers. More often than one would think, politics is not about principle, it's about money - it shouldn't be so but that's a fact.

But the main thing about another election is that months of instability would have meant the financial crisis would have been much much deeper)
 
John H said:
A couple of points:

1. Some people have talked about foreign students coming here and getting free or cheap education while English-born children have to pay to go to University. This is not so. One of the reasons why there are a lot of foreign students in English Universities is because the Universities are allowed to charge them what they like (there is no upper limit as there is with English students). Consequently, there are African students sitting next to English students, having paid as much as ten times what the English students will pay (and the foreigners have to pay upfront as well).

2. Some people have said the LibDems had no choice but to ditch some of their policies because they are the junior partner. Yes they did. This wasn't just another policy; it was one of the cornerstones of their campaign - and the reason they won so many University seats. A Party with principles would have refused to go into government, let the Tories run a minority administration and force another election in the near future, when they probably would have done a lot better (instead of facing almost certain annihilation as they do now).
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i dont confess to know wether or not overseas students have to pay more than our students ,but if so that is how it should be .after all they have not contributed toward any of our state benefits we get education or health ecetera and if they want our education they should pay for the privelige . and as for your second point yes i agree with your statement so i need not to comment . as for firefox well we all have a right to our own veiws and it would be a poor man to deny them , but it seems to me and a lot of people i have spoken to, belive the libs have gone against there principals which is unforgivable just for a moment of power and mistaken glory which will cost them dearly in the future .
 
If the LibDems had not gone into coalition, the Tories would have been allowed to run a minority administration (as the SNP have done in Scotland) and then a new election would have followed in a few months or so. The new election would have been fought with a Tory budget in place and the electorate would have had the chance to say whether they wanted such policies to continue. There is nothing to suggest that anarchy or financial instability would have resulted - this is a common statement put out by those who favour "strong" government but if you look at history - and if you look at other countries - there is very little evidence to back it up. Some of the weakest economies in the world have "strong" government and some of the most successful economies have in recent history had no overall political control. For example, the USA now has a deadlocked government with Democrats in charge of the White House and Senate and Republicans in charge of the House of Representatives. Theoretically this means no-one can get a budget through - and it happens more often than not. But if you chart the economic health of the USA it does not go up when one party has "Strong" government" and down the rest of the time.
 
mandrake said:
i dont confess to know wether or not overseas students have to pay more than our students ,but if so that is how it should be .after all they have not contributed toward any of our state benefits we get education or health ecetera and if they want our education they should pay for the privelige .
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Just to clarify - I wasn't saying they shouldn't pay more, I was saying that the claim of some that they get it for free isn't true.
 
John H said:
Just to clarify - I wasn't saying they shouldn't pay more, I was saying that the claim of some that they get it for free isn't true.
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dident think you ment they shouldent pay at all , i agree they should pay and pay a lot more more than our students ,after all they get a good education over here
 
At the end of the day foriegners in a lot of cases are treated better than true brits and as for the lib dems go they got in by default and wouldn't have had a cat in hells chance otherwise,so why should we have to accept any of there policies.As i have said before they will always move the goalposts to suite themselves,they are liars and conmen and we accept it like lost sheep.The fact that they say we are vertualy broke and yet give billions away to other countrys as myself and another member have already mentioned is taking the pi*s ,remember thats the future pensions up the swany and thats why they want us to work until we drop.Our contribution should go to our kids and not to any tom, dick or harry or should i say manuel,abdul or winyun who come over and again take the pi*s, but whos fault is that,the goverment for allowing it.I have worked with foriegners who have told me they will work over hear until they can afford to buy a house in there own country and bugger of home, and buy the way, i was paying my contributions and they were casual and paid none :mad: and they say it with a big cheesey grin on there face,i have known people who lived in a council house now retired and the council refuse to do repair on there home oter paying rent for 32 years, the council then gut the house nexy door,replaster,fit central heating,new carpets,give them a grant and move arabs into the house,then the head of the house tell the retired couple,"i will never have to work again" he was also driving a mobility car that was hes mothers who didn't even live with him:mad:,thats greatbritain today.It used to be that people invade and fought to take over our country,now we invite then in,give them a cup of tea and a biscuit and then discuss how much they would like to take out of OUR contributions to OUR country.Anyway i had better stop my rant as i might be arrested for insighting hatred or for at least being a trouble maker,all the best,Shawbags.
 
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