student s hi jinks in london

[Deleted member 775]

just watched the news about the student rally in london yesterday .our dear leader of this government said he was outraged at the behavior of a minority of students in london yesterday ,and said "there were not enough police on duty there" how is he going to explain the lack of police when the cuts in the police budget leaves even less officers on the streets gun.. foot shot in the... comes to mind

 

[Deleted member 3802]

THEY WILL DO LIKE THEY DID IN 1984 AND DRESS THE ARMY UP AS POLICE
remember 1973 winter of discontent it's coming again and these same groups will be at every demo

 

[robjmckinney]

Can you really blame them!

High fees 'Camoron' admits will subsidise foriegn students, it seems all the University's will increase fees to the max of £9000, the government said very few would max out!

 

[robjmckinney]

The biggest social group to take advantage of the great Uni expansion has been Middle Class girls.
The reason children stay at school to 18 and many go on to Uni is there is no jobs for them, immigration has destroyed youth employment!
No doubt they will officially extend education and training to 25 as they do now unofficially!

 

[Kontiki]

I would be interested to know how many of the ones who caused the problem were students, also how many students voted tory or liberal. I would also have thought that it should have been the liberal offices to take the brunt of their demo as it was them that broke their promise . Personally I didn't vote for either, but what's the problem I thought everybody knew what the policies were of each of the major parties before the election. There were enough warnings about the cuts & how drastic they were going to be. Did certain groups think they would be exempt from the pain, we are all going to suffer it's just a case of how much.

We have a democratic system, we have the government the majority voted for in our current political system & as long as they have a majority they can run the country. As I said I voted for the losers but I hope the policies they are putting in place will help us all as being retired I am stuck with what I've got as my earning days are over.

 

[John H]

The reason children stay at school to 18 and many go on to Uni is there is no jobs for them, immigration has destroyed youth employment!

So let me get this right - the reason why our 18 year olds are going to University is because of all those immigrants taking the cleaning jobs, the portering jobs, the driving jobs, the fruit-picking jobs, the sweat-shop jobs, the labouring jobs etc etc. If only our youth had the chance to do these minimum wage (or worse) jobs then they wouldn't bother to apply to Cambridge. It all makes perfect sense to me now.

 

[John H]

I would also have thought that it should have been the liberal offices to take the brunt of their demo as it was them that broke their promise

I couldn't agree more - at least if you voted Tory you knew what was coming but I voted liberal because in the seat where I live it was either Tory or Liberal - I did not vote for this and I can completely understand why people would feel bloody angry with the liberals - if they had kept their promise the Tories wouldn't be able to do it. The demonstrators were picketing the wrong lot.

 

[Tigatigatiger]

I too work in education at Oxford Uni, I am member of the teaching staff in a science dept. I don't have degree but did serve an engineering apprenticeship the old fashioned type, 4 years studying the same trade (instumentation and control) plus college/poly part time.
So I work closely with the undergraduates.
The facts are:- state school kids do better at Oxford, more state school kids applied and got in here in the 60's and 70's. Now in our department over 50% ( a fact of which we are ashamed of) of our in take are from private over overseas-something which we have and still are working hard to change.
The costs are putting kids off? Plus kids are kids and in most cases will take the easy options at school, so going for softer lessions? We are getting students in here with no practical knowledge/skills (it's part of my job to teach practical skills), health and safety gone mad?
There are to many degrees which are of little worth (I will include some Oxford degrees here), we need to encourage young people to go into engineering, science, medicine, teaching, etc. etc. So these degrees should subsidized, so their fees are far lower.

We need to stop telling kids that if you haven't a degree you have failed in some way? We need skilled people, my brother runs a company (engineerig based) he can't get and keep skilled people?? He tried to setup engineering apprenticeships as his factory, he gave up, because of the red tape and hoops he asked to jump though.

We'll never be able to compete in price against the likes of china, but we can compete and with knowledge, innovations, and quality.

A foot note before I complete my rant of the day-my brothers company has sold over 20 millions pound worth of goods to the chinese goverment.

 

[shawbags]

This government want only those who can easily pay the fees such as the rich to go to university and not the lower paid sector,keep the rich rich and the poor poor its always been that way and always will .The amount of times ive been at work and heard,"your not here to think" you would not believe.If it became easy for anyone to get a good education alot more people would have a lot more to say about how the country is being treated and that wouldn't do.As for voting, no one ever gets what they vote for because who ever wins always move the goalposts when they get into power,they then build us up over a few months about whats going to happen and then drop it on us thinking it won't hit us so hard,how dim do they think the general public are but this time they have been stupid enough to kick the next generation in the teath and one of those protesters could become a future priminister,as for people from over seas getting everything for nothing that has always baffled me.I worked for many years and have very rarely worked anywhere near as low as a 40 hour week,my ours of work were between 60 and 70 hours and i was lucky to take home £380-400 a week,i am 45 and will probably never be able to work again because of health isues bought on through working myself into the ground and i am now looked on as a burden to the state ,good luck to the protesters,shawbags. P.S have a bloody good bar humbug christmas .

 

[Deleted member 775]

i have some sympathy with the students, but in this economic climate when the government are cutting back on care for the elderly, saying that we all need to work longer to get our pensions which they say is crippling the country and the majority of us have worked for since the age of 15 .i think that the students need to contribute to the education budget for the next group entering uni .any student that studdies subjects that help toward the country ,ie doctors, science , that type of degree should not be forced to pay .but when it come down to media studies and subjects similer to that whare they are doing it just to benifit there own future then full fees should be payed by all .after all if we want a better richer retirement then we have to provide for ourseves through private pensions the state will not fund that for us will they .and i dobt that when the students have qualified will they be willing to top the state pension up for us i doubt it . but good luck to them at least they are willing to get out there and demonstrate against cuts in there education. we unfortunatly are too willing to take everything we get chucked at us, moan and do nothing .they have the guts we take the cuts

 

[shawbags]

Why are they making such cut backs in the U.K and then lending or giving money to other countrys,they keep saying we are in deep sh*t so our government must be borrowing money to lend or give money.As for pensions is there anyone left that we can trust to invest our money NO!!!,they are all thieves and liars look at the thousands of people over the last few years who have lost everything,also you supposed to be able to have time to relax and actually spend your pension but a lot of people will die before they get the chance and where does your pension go if you die before you get chance to spend it,back to the government so they can give it away or put it in to some laim brain scheme that will never benefit us.As for fighting for your rights if you try that in this country you are either raccist a,a trouble maker or you need to see a doctor but in saying that we normaly as you said just sit back and take it,our government laugh in our face,we are all bloody fools and its about time we all stood up and said No!!! .

 

[shawbags]

I too work in education at Oxford Uni, I am member of the teaching staff in a science dept. I don't have degree but did serve an engineering apprenticeship the old fashioned type, 4 years studying the same trade (instumentation and control) plus college/poly part time.
So I work closely with the undergraduates.
The facts are:- state school kids do better at Oxford, more state school kids applied and got in here in the 60's and 70's. Now in our department over 50% ( a fact of which we are ashamed of) of our in take are from private over overseas-something which we have and still are working hard to change.
The costs are putting kids off? Plus kids are kids and in most cases will take the easy options at school, so going for softer lessions? We are getting students in here with no practical knowledge/skills (it's part of my job to teach practical skills), health and safety gone mad?
There are to many degrees which are of little worth (I will include some Oxford degrees here), we need to encourage young people to go into engineering, science, medicine, teaching, etc. etc. So these degrees should subsidized, so their fees are far lower.

We need to stop telling kids that if you haven't a degree you have failed in some way? We need skilled people, my brother runs a company (engineerig based) he can't get and keep skilled people?? He tried to setup engineering apprenticeships as his factory, he gave up, because of the red tape and hoops he asked to jump though.

We'll never be able to compete in price against the likes of china, but we can compete and with knowledge, innovations, and quality.

A foot note before I complete my rant of the day-my brothers company has sold over 20 millions pound worth of goods to the chinese goverment.

Why the red tape,it makes you wonder,if anyone in this country tries to make a go of it they normaly try there best to stop it or tax you to the hilt .

 

[Deleted member 775]

never a truer word spoken my freind i agree totaly with your comment, if we turn to the polltax riots a few years ago we are classed as trouble causers and should be jailed we may even be classed as inciting civil unrest even urban terrorists but if that is what it takes to make this government see sence then so be it .yes we need to do somthing about the mess we are supposed to be in and i would agree with them to a certain extent that some cuts in our expedditure must be made ,but when they give 7 billion pounds away to others when we are supposed to be bankrupt almost and with no hope of ever getting it back is beyond me it maks me disbeleve we are in as much of a mess as they make out .

 

[Firefox]

All these protests are hijacked by far left groups, militant union people, and anarchists so it's difficult to see who is protesting.

Go to any student union in the country and you'll still see it is an orgy of beer drinking, bar nights and Ents. I'm not saying it was any different when I was at Uni, but then I didn't complain or protest about them taking away our grants and housing benefits. I just got on with studying and drinking as much beer as the reduced money allowed. While the beer still flows they've not got much cause for complaint, and believe me the beer is still flowing!

 

[shawbags]

All these protests are hijacked by far left groups, militant union people, and anarchists so it's difficult to see who is protesting.

Go to any student union in the country and you'll still see it is an orgy of beer drinking, bar nights and Ents. I'm not saying it was any different when I was at Uni, but then I didn't complain or protest about them taking away our grants and housing benefits. I just got on with studying and drinking as much beer as the reduced money allowed. While the beer still flows they've not got much cause for complaint, and believe me the beer is still flowing!

So what your saying is no matter what the government take off us we should grin and bare it,its only hapening more so now because people have had enough of the government treating us like fools.Lets go back to scargil and the minors thatcher as good as tried to starve them to death and because it did not effect us we mostly sat back and tried to egnore it,the problem with us is we don't stick together any more and sit back with the "i'm alright jack" atitude,how much more should we take.I'm not saying rebel against the government just stand up and be counted eventualy they would have to listen.

 

[bigal]

So let me get this right - the reason why our 18 year olds are going to University is because of all those immigrants taking the cleaning jobs, the portering jobs, the driving jobs, the fruit-picking jobs, the sweat-shop jobs, the labouring jobs etc etc. If only our youth had the chance to do these minimum wage (or worse) jobs then they wouldn't bother to apply to Cambridge. It all makes perfect sense to me now.

Also taking jobs in retail, in building, computer-based statistical work. Immigrants are also brought into this country to fill highly skilled roles in quantities that Britain lacks, hence there is therefore no need to educate and train the indigenous population into those roles. Companies can bring in their own workers from abroad thus removing the need for them to train workers here.
Immigrants also take up a lot of semi-skilled and highly-skilled positions in hospitals. Do you think that all immigrants into this country are ill-trained and ill-educated morons, a good many bring in skills and qualifications, ok they may start off doing menial jobs but we all know where there ambitions lie.
Just see how many sons and daughters of former immigrants are training to be doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants, opthamologists, etc.

 

[bigal]

i have some sympathy with the students, but in this economic climate when the government are cutting back on care for the elderly, saying that we all need to work longer to get our pensions which they say is crippling the country and the majority of us have worked for since the age of 15 .i think that the students need to contribute to the education budget for the next group entering uni .any student that studdies subjects that help toward the country ,ie doctors, science , that type of degree should not be forced to pay .but when it come down to media studies and subjects similer to that whare they are doing it just to benifit there own future then full fees should be payed by all .after all if we want a better richer retirement then we have to provide for ourseves through private pensions the state will not fund that for us will they .and i dobt that when the students have qualified will they be willing to top the state pension up for us i doubt it . but good luck to them at least they are willing to get out there and demonstrate against cuts in there education. we unfortunatly are too willing to take everything we get chucked at us, moan and do nothing .they have the guts we take the cuts

Don't doctors study medicine to benefit their own future? And don't doctors usually come from families that can afford to help their offspring financially. And as for the salary that qualified doctors achieve, well lets not go there.

 

[John H]

i have some sympathy with the students, but in this economic climate when the government are cutting back on care for the elderly, saying that we all need to work longer to get our pensions which they say is crippling the country and the majority of us have worked for since the age of 15 .i think that the students need to contribute to the education budget for the next group entering uni .any student that studdies subjects that help toward the country ,ie doctors, science , that type of degree should not be forced to pay .but when it come down to media studies and subjects similer to that whare they are doing it just to benifit there own future then full fees should be payed by all .after all if we want a better richer retirement then we have to provide for ourseves through private pensions the state will not fund that for us will they .and i dobt that when the students have qualified will they be willing to top the state pension up for us i doubt it . but good luck to them at least they are willing to get out there and demonstrate against cuts in there education. we unfortunatly are too willing to take everything we get chucked at us, moan and do nothing .they have the guts we take the cuts

The bit of this that I would question is the bit about anyone studying medicine not having to pay and anyone doing media studies being made to pay. Who decides what is "useful" to the rest of us. And when a Dr Shipman surfaces, as well as putting him in jail for the rest of his life do we also ask him to return his tuition fees? And when somebody who has a degree in media studies becomes a film director who brings joy to many do we offer to give his money back? I can't see this working - and I don't fancy having the government decide who might or not be useful in the future (sounds a bit like 1984 to me!). But the rest of it - especially the bits about having the guts to stand up and be counted - I am totally behind.

And while I'm at it - how come we are making students pay exhorbitant tuition fees while at the same time handing out money left right and centre to Irish bankers. I know this is a point that has been made by several others but it particularly makes my blood boil because I voted LibDem as the only alternative to the Tories where I live. I won't make that bloody mistake again!

 

[John H]

Also taking jobs in retail, in building, computer-based statistical work. Immigrants are also brought into this country to fill highly skilled roles in quantities that Britain lacks, hence there is therefore no need to educate and train the indigenous population into those roles. Companies can bring in their own workers from abroad thus removing the need for them to train workers here.
Immigrants also take up a lot of semi-skilled and highly-skilled positions in hospitals. Do you think that all immigrants into this country are ill-trained and ill-educated morons, a good many bring in skills and qualifications, ok they may start off doing menial jobs but we all know where there ambitions lie.
Just see how many sons and daughters of former immigrants are training to be doctors, dentists, lawyers, accountants, opthamologists, etc.

Difficult to follow your thinking. First you say young people are flocking to university because immigrants have taken all the jobs they might otherwise do and then you turn this completely on its head by saying that skilled immigrants are being brought in because of a skills shortage among the "indigenous" population - and that their presence removes the need to train that "indigenous" population. And what on earth is wrong with the sons and daughters of immigrants (or anybody else for that matter) wanting to improve their lot by training to be doctors etc?

 

[bigal]

Difficult to follow your thinking. First you say young people are flocking to university because immigrants have taken all the jobs they might otherwise do and then you turn this completely on its head by saying that skilled immigrants are being brought in because of a skills shortage among the "indigenous" population - and that their presence removes the need to train that "indigenous" population. And what on earth is wrong with the sons and daughters of immigrants (or anybody else for that matter) wanting to improve their lot by training to be doctors etc?

Let me try to explain for you.......

1. I never said that "young people are flocking to university".

2. The reasons that people go to university are many and multi-faceted, the absence of jobs available is one reason.

3. Did I say or imply that there was anything wrong with sons or daughters wanting to improve their lot?

4. You do not have the exclusive right to an opinion.

5. It is your problem if you cannot follow the thread of someone elses arguement.