Scarborough traders complain

[Deleted member 967]

We are curently parked on a car park near Marazion in Cornwall. Hard level surface, Nice sea views over Mounts Bay and to St Michaels Mount. Penzance down the coast in walking distance (1.5 miles) Morrisons for cheep fuel and provisions (0.5 miles) Cost £1 (for up to 24 hours parking) Pay & Display 08:00 to 18:00 FOC overnight. No problems overnighting apart from trains behind hooting for the level crossing. There were very few trains overnight.

There are public toilets a very short walk away on the coastal path, with a water tap.

At £10 I would rather go the a CL/CS.

John

 

[AndyC]

Hawick

On the other hand, I feel that, as a group, we should be writing letters of support to councils like Hawick which, according to an earlier post, have dedicated free spaces for us. It is good to know that there are some sensible authorities out there who know that the tarmac we use would be used by nobody else if we weren't there and that if even a small proportion of us shop in the town then they have benefited their local community at zero cost. We learn most things by example; maybe the example set by Hawick (which is a nicer town to visit than Scarborough anyway!) will encourage others. We should certainly be encouraging them. I will be writing - I hope that an "official" letter can be sent by Admin on our behalf.

It was instigated by the Hawick Welcome Initiative, see: Hawick Welcome Initiative
I understand they even have volunteers on site during the day to welcome campervans and provide information about the town.

AndyC

 

[Somelier]

Slightly off topic - I belong to a CCC DA which has had a regular holiday site on a farmer's field just outside Llangollen. This year, the meet was targeted by thieves who stole gas bottles, generators (causing considerable damage to one person's car) and unbelievably, the drive shaft from a Landrover!

The decision was made to close the meet immediately, since no one felt safe and this site will not be used again in the foreseeable future.

We know that the Llangollen people are terribly upset about what has happened, especially as the police are not very forthcoming in their actions to discover who the culprits were.

The townsfolk and traders of Llangollen were very aware of the money we brought into the town each year. It is not just our loss, but theirs as well.

 

[singerontour]

Blurred Economic vision...

In these tough economic times many business owners are trying to work out the reduction in their once thriving businesses ,sadly fingers are often pointed and knees jerked in all the wrong directions! We need a complete rethink in this country on certain aspects like this in Scarborough and i suggest like many of you have , an approach like that of our American friends will work much better ,take the example of Walmart allowing limited overnight stays to motorhomes and RV's as they have done their research at the supermarket giants im sure and know the mainly middle class owners of the said vehicles spend well with them. A small price for the business to pay as the Campers tend to take up a scarcely used parking lots overnight.Like wise many of the European countries provide far more in the way of stop overs for us in return for our business.If , as we are led to beleive tourism in the UK will increase as British holiday makers find they dont have the money to go further afield ,now would be a very good time for local councils to put their thinking caps on and listen to some comon sense and indeed proven business sense !

 

[Skibabe007]

I live in Scarborough

Hi all.....

Scarborough council really are a strange bunch! The council is filled with arcade owners, property owners and other tourist related business owners. Some of their ideas often reflects their wish to keep others out of their long held monopoly, which many times actually damages the local economy.

I often see many motorhomes using the Scarborough coast line For overnight camping and i've never seen anyone have any problems but who knows with our council?

Keep coming guys and spending you very welcome hard earned money because us genuine Scarborough residents really appreciate you!

Park, Sleep and be Happy!!

 

[Deleted member 21686]

Hi all.....

Scarborough council really are a strange bunch! The council is filled with arcade owners, property owners and other tourist related business owners. Some of their ideas often reflects their wish to keep others out of their long held monopoly, which many times actually damages the local economy.

I often see many motorhomes using the Scarborough coast line For overnight camping and i've never seen anyone have any problems but who knows with our council?

Keep coming guys and spending you very welcome hard earned money because us genuine Scarborough residents really appreciate you!

Park, Sleep and be Happy!!

Good post.
It's not just Scarborough though many are short sighted.

Tenby in Pembroke is terrible you are almost afraid to drive into the town.

 

[scampa]

Hi all.....

Scarborough council really are a strange bunch! The council is filled with arcade owners, property owners and other tourist related business owners. Some of their ideas often reflects their wish to keep others out of their long held monopoly, which many times actually damages the local economy.

I often see many motorhomes using the Scarborough coast line For overnight camping and i've never seen anyone have any problems but who knows with our council?

Keep coming guys and spending you very welcome hard earned money because us genuine Scarborough residents really appreciate you!

Park, Sleep and be Happy!!

I hope those views are made public in the local newspapers and media around Scarborough? A lot of people suspect that is part of the problem, but has it been publicised, and if so, what have been the responses and reactions from the council or residents?

 

[Channa]

I hope those views are made public in the local newspapers and media around Scarborough? A lot of people suspect that is part of the problem, but has it been publicised, and if so, what have been the responses and reactions from the council or residents?

I am on the electoral role in filey, which falls pretty much under the remit of Scarborough I and others have in the past e mailed council, local press, questioning whether the council are serving the electorate in some of their more bizarree ideas.

I would agree with basildog, a lot of these councils can't grasp the concept motorhomers won't use sites, when the vans are self contained.

Scarborough have agreed to overnight parking provision albeit at a ludicrous cost considering no facilities are being offered..

The positive is they are prepared to give the ball a kick,...and I would like to think they are embracing an opportunity to add incremental income for Scarborough business.

I am sceptical that what has been offered is more to manage a perceived problem...

This aire business which it isn't could be a nemesis for motorhomers rather than a help..

I hope I am wrong, and I am being cynical, however past policy encourages cynicism

Channa

 

[maureenandtom]

I've been in France for the last month but I'm back now and while away I've had one or two things forwarded to me by Scarborough Council.

I'm not sure that anybody's really interested in Scarborough any more but I'll publish one or two things for the sake of tidiness and some of the stuff might be useful when dealing with other councils.

First then, the committee report submitted to the cabinet member responsible: http://democracy.scarborough.gov.uk/documents/s43629/12332 - Motorhomes - 20120627.pdf

Couple of other minor, but interesting things to follow. Save making a single post too long.

 

[John H]

I've been in France for the last month but I'm back now and while away I've had one or two things forwarded to me by Scarborough Council.

I'm not sure that anybody's really interested in Scarborough any more but I'll publish one or two things for the sake of tidiness and some of the stuff might be useful when dealing with other councils.

First then, the committee report submitted to the cabinet member responsible: http://democracy.scarborough.gov.uk/documents/s43629/12332 - Motorhomes - 20120627.pdf

Couple of other minor, but interesting things to follow. Save making a single post too long.

Interesting reading, Tom. So that's it for Scarborough then! I don't know about anybody else but I'm not paying £10 to park when I can get a CL for less than that and have electricity thrown in. I do think, however, that this report highlights the dangers of making a fuss. It is interesting that they note their previous restrictions were unenforceable (para 3.5 is particularly interesting) and so they have tightened up their definitions and given us little room for excuses. Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned for the future - keep your head down and don't stir the pot. I am still fearful of the same kind of thing happening in Scotland now that they can't use deterrent signs. Ah well, there's always Europe - and its warmer!

 

[groyne]

I agree with John.

Scarborough Council are trying to impose a curfew on Motorcaravans In certain areas between the hours of 6:30pm and 8:30am. So what happens to those of us that park up for a few hours during the curfew times? Personally I've fished and surfed in the area for years but never stayed overnight. But because of my choice of vehicle am I now barred?

I think the outcome will be E5 on the Councils Consequence Matrix, well for Motorhome owners anyway.

 

[Smaug]

Probably P-ing in the wind, bt I have sent the folloing e-mail to Scarborough council (via teh e-mail address of the report. Please consider sending something similar yourselves, the more the merrier, it may help them realise what a silly response it is to a perceived problem that isn't.

Dear Stuart,

I have read your report on Motorhome parking & I am amazed by your shortsighted response to this perceived problem of Tourism. I understood your post was set up to encourage visitors rather than ban them! May I make a few relevant comments to help you think this through more logically rather than just having a knee-jerk response to complaints from people who do not appear to understand the bigger picture.

1/ Motorhomes are not cheap to buy or hire, consequently the people in them will not be without resources.

2/ They need to eat, so must buy fresh food daily and/ or eat at local restaurants & pubs, we do not only eat from tins!!!

3/ The vehicles use quite a lot of fuel including gas cylinders and these need to be replenished while travelling,

4/ People on holiday are there to enjoy themselves & will visit local atractions & spend money (that's what tourists do!)

5/ Vans are self-contained in terms of waste (including toilets) so should not be leaving litter or waste water - and there are existing bye-laws to deal with such issues anyway, should they arise.

6/ Your proposed price for parking (£10/night) is significantly higher than many small Certified sites which provide facilities like fresh water, toilet emptying & electric hook-ups, so why would anyone pay more for less?

7/ In what way do Motorhomes parked overnight in generally empty car parks consitute a nuisance or deny anyone else access?

8/ Currently, opinion on the Internet Motorhome forums I frequent is that we are not welcome in Scarborough & we will simply go elsewhere to spend our money. Hawick, for example actively encourage us to visit & offer free overnight parking, together with "Welcome" volunteers giving out tourist info packs. Guess where I would rather visit!!

9/ Banning people from certain roads means that they cannot even stay at the B&B's there and being unable to park off road in a carpark or near the beach means you will also lose MH based daytrippers as well as overnighters. We are very unlikely to even use the local camp site if we cannot drive into the beach areas for the day.

So, in short, you wish to ban Motorhomes from the more desirable parts of your town, but that will simply drive us away, along with all our spend in local shops, garages & attractions. You obviously have far more visitors than you need & a thriving economy, so will not miss us. That is sad, but I certainly will not go anywhere that my money is not welcome.

Yours very sincerely,
Steve Kean, a Motorhome owning pensioner.

 

[Firefox]

Did you see the consequences box in his risk matrix. What a load of complete bollox it was:

Risk: "Car Park overnight usage by motorcaravans increases significantly to the detriment of providers of the facility and other car park users"

Just how do overnight stays by vans impact other car park users who are not likely to be there in the night anyway? Do they want to create more open space for the cruiser and boy racing users :lol-053:

And during the day the motorcaravans occupy spaces just the same as any other parked vehicle by paying the fee or not as the case may be. If they take two spaces they buy two tickets.

The whole thing smacks of clutching at straws to provide trumped up reasons to satisfy local caravan park owners whose facilities we would never be patronising anyway.

 

[kenjones]

Did you see the consequences box in his risk matrix. What a load of complete bollox it was:

Risk: "Car Park overnight usage by motorcaravans increases significantly to the detriment of providers of the facility and other car park users"

Just how do overnight stays by vans impact other car park users who are not likely to be there in the night anyway? Do they want to create more open space for the cruiser and boy racing users :lol-053:

And during the day the motorcaravans occupy spaces just the same as any other parked vehicle by paying the fee or not as the case may be. If they take two spaces they buy two tickets.

The whole thing smacks of clutching at straws to provide trumped up reasons to satisfy local caravan park owners whose facilities we would never be patronising anyway.

I do not support or agree with Scarborough council. As a one time regular visitor to the resort, Summer and Winter I have already found other places to visit and won't be going back any time soon.
On the question of the risk assesment you quote this was given a low risk category number 1 rating indicating that they didn't expect a heavy demand on the car parks and the proposals would not have a negative impact on the town.
Like many others on here I think Scarborough council are a pretty short sighted bunch and are actually turning trade away.
I have spent a lot of money in the town over the years but as I said I won't be back. Who's loss?

 

[groyne]

Please consider sending something similar yourselves

I've already sent an Email asking how it affects those who are just parking for a few hours and are not overnighting. Also asked if comercial vans would be included.

Forgot to ask about people sleeping in cars.

 

[Yogihughes]

SO!

Is Scarborough a "no-go" area now for all MHs/Campervans/Stealth Vans et al?

 

[maureenandtom]

I feel I've got to reply to a little of this.

Scarborough is not a no go area for motorhomes. They have taken the first step to providing a continental style dedicated parking place which we call an Aire - whether it is that or not. It's a trial for a year and there are no services provided other than a parking space. Most people applaud when councils take this first step. We do not (though we sometimes do) and I'd still like to know why.

They have got the price badly wrong - and maybe the location too, but I don't know about that.

I'm pleased that Smaug has written to the council urging them to reconsider the pricing policy and I'd like more to to do so - but not if you don't want to see continental style Aires provided in the UK. If you don't want Aires, then you don't, but don't blame Scarborough for getting it wrong initially - especially if all they've got wrong is the price. Tell them about it. I did.

I received this reponse from Councillor Tim Lawn who is the chairman of the Traffic Group making the recommendations. He answered:

Thankyou for your message. I am pleased you are with us in wanting the pilot to be a success.Whilst listening to the concerns of residents we have also taken the views of yourself and other motorhome users into account.

We welcome your input and are trying to work with both residents and motorhome users, to ensure you are always welcome and can enjoy the area and amenitie

I can assure you there is NO smoke screen and we really want this pilot to succeed for all concerned.

Regarding pricing, i feel it fair to say that enforcement will be a key part in making the pilot a success and our recommendation regarding charging reflects the cost associated with this.The final decision will be taken by the relevant Cabinet member.


The bold is my emphasis. This proposed Aire is for off-street parking; on-street parking is the responsibility of a different council - North Yorks. I haven't asked why Scarborough would need to charge for enforcement which is the responsibility of North Yorks.

 

[kimbowbill]

Well i am glad they are charging £10 per night to sit in a car park and banning MH's from the sea front, because next year they will be looking at how they can bring us back, and it will be all open again, i wont be going that is for sure, they can all sod off

 

[maureenandtom]

Well i am glad they are charging £10 per night to sit in a car park and banning MH's from the sea front, because next year they will be looking at how they can bring us back, and it will be all open again, i wont be going that is for sure, they can all sod off

Yes. And that's a legitimate protest. I support you. Withdraw our custom. I support those who do that.

If we don't like it, don't use it until they put their tail between their legs and give us a free welcome on our own terms. We're the customers after all.

Just out of interest though. Do you ever pay for Aires in France? Bit hypocritical if you do.

I've just come back from France this weekend and I've been used to free Aires near Roscoff for pretty well 20 years. For those who use the same ferry - the Aire at the port (St Barbe?) is closed and the service point demolished. The other Aire at Roscoff (Laber ?) is still not blocked off but the service point has been demolished and the sign saying that it is an Aire has disappeared though vans are still using it. The car park at the ferry port itself is no longer signed as long term for caravans etc and I think is now just used by ferry passengers either waiting for or landing from a ferry. The previously free Aire at St Pol de Leon is now 5 Euros for 24 hours or 3 Euros for 12 hours. The private Aire at Santec is free for one night and chargeable (not sure but I think 5 Euros) per night after that.

The Aire at Leclerc in St Pol is still being used by campervans for services and parking is free but few seem to use it overnight.

Scarborough have got the price wrong. Blackpool got the price wrong too and I've just seen a thread here showing that their Aire hasn't yet solved their problems.

This is what Councillor Chance wrote to me:

I for my part want this to work, but I also want to stop 24 hour, and indeed, longer stay parking on our seafronts and prime parking places, which is what is happening at present.


I have no problem with motor homes parking on the seafront between 8 am and 11 pm and the action taken by the Council will continue to permit this.


I do, however, have an issue with overnight and longer stay parking on our seafronts and prime parking places. I recently spent a week checking this West Cliff in Whitby and regularly found in excess of 30 Motor homes parked there at 07:00 am in the morning, the vast majority with curtains drawn and the occupants still sleeping. A number of these vehicles stayed in the same position for periods well in excess of 24 hours, indeed in a number of cases for up to a week without moving a wheel.

 

[John H]

Just out of interest though. Do you ever pay for Aires in France? Bit hypocritical if you do.

I have to disagree with this. Most aires in France are free but those that charge, charge a reasonable price (less than 5 euros on average). For less than the price that Scarborough are charging you can get full facilities, including hook-up. In fact there are still many aires in France that provide free hook-up. It is not hypocritical to ask for a fair price - and if you can get a lot more for less on a CL (and you can) then Scarborough are not charging a fair price.