Lochore aire locals object?

[GeoffL]

I've given up on the idea of complaining to the Benarty Community as I suspect that a certain Mr Kinnaird would be the one to receive the complaint, which would probably just end up in the round filing cabinet on the floor. However, I intend to complain to Fife Council. That said, complaining to councils is not something I've done before, so I'd be grateful for some 'peer review' of the following draft:

My complaint concerns the bigotry and vitriolic hatred expressed by the Chair of Benarty Community Council (Tom Kinnaird) against motorhomers on his Facebook page "Benarty Matters". "John Purdie" started a thread on that page entitled "Is This Scotland's Oldest Aire?" and linked to a YouTube video by Cameron McNeish praising the aire at Lochore Meadows. Mr Kinnaird made the first comment to that thread and, with no justification, implied that all motorhomers spend "£50,000 and upwards" and come "preloaded with tea, coffee and food so won't spend a penny locally". Later, again with no justification, he accused motorhomers of "hatred against campers and caravanners". Throughout the thread, his hatred of motorhomes was clear. However, he is the admin for that page and it appears that he might have abused the powers that confers to 'sanitise' the thread by deleting some of the comments pointing out where he is mistaken. This was done after someone posted an intention to formally complain -- a post that also "disappeared", and members of the motorhoming community have now been locked out of the thread and thus prevented from responding.
While I suspect that Mr Kinnaird might claim this was merely his person opinion, which he is entitled to express, and that he acted as an individual, he implicitly acted and posted as a council representative. This is evident from his comment in which he mentions a meeting with Fife council (who he claims carried on with the aire regardless) and also his comment, "We'll continue to monitor and audit in the coming seasons and if it's turning out to be a liability rather than an asset, then a decision will have to be made on whether or not it's worth going forward with or if motorhomers are just too much hassle for not enough return. That's how it's looking to me so far."
This is not the behaviour that the Benarty Community deserve. It is totally unbecoming of a council official and possibly breaches the rules of conduct for those holding public office.

 

[linkshouse]

In many ways this is even more disturbing Tom. Here are we complain about his behaviour towards us, but we don't live within his council.
Why this man has not been kicked out of office before now eludes me.
But I suspect its lethargy which allows him to remain were he is.

In many ways this is even more disturbing Tom. Here are we complain about his behaviour towards us, but we don't live within his council.
Why this man has not been kicked out of office before now eludes me.
But I suspect its lethargy which allows him to remain were he is.

I know this is mainland Scotland but if it is anything like community efforts here it will not so much be “who is elected” as “who is willing”. When we first moved here was talked into joining the Tourist Association board and eight years later it was only by being downright hard nosed and leaving them short of members that I finally extricated myself. We’ve been here nearly 20 years now, know the ins and outs of island life pretty well, and it is the same for the Community Council, Heritage Trust, Development Trust etc. each year they appeal for new candidates but don’t get any so the voting process becomes a bit of a fait accompli.

Phill

 

[Fisherman]

I know this is mainland Scotland but if it is anything like community efforts here it will not so much be “who is elected” as “who is willing”. When we first moved here was talked into joining the Tourist Association board and eight years later it was only by being downright hard nosed and leaving them short of members that I finally extricated myself. We’ve been here nearly 20 years now, know the ins and outs of island life pretty well, and it is the same for the Community Council, Heritage Trust, Development Trust etc. each year they appeal for new candidates but don’t get any so the voting process becomes a bit of a fait accompli.

Phill

I agree, and I have already stated so several times.
If you have not looked yet, take a look at Toms post regarding the locals.
This supports your point entirely.

 

[linkshouse]

I've given up on the idea of complaining to the Benarty Community as I suspect that a certain Mr Kinnaird would be the one to receive the complaint, which would probably just end up in the round filing cabinet on the floor. However, I intend to complain to Fife Council. That said, complaining to councils is not something I've done before, so I'd be grateful for some 'peer review' of the following draft:

My complaint concerns the bigotry and vitriolic hatred expressed by the Chair of Benarty Community Council (Tom Kinnaird) against motorhomers on his Facebook page "Benarty Matters". "John Purdie" started a thread on that page entitled "Is This Scotland's Oldest Aire?" and linked to a YouTube video by Cameron McNeish praising the aire at Lochore Meadows. Mr Kinnaird made the first comment to that thread and, with no justification, implied that all motorhomers spend "£50,000 and upwards" and come "preloaded with tea, coffee and food so won't spend a penny locally". Later, again with no justification, he accused motorhomers of "hatred against campers and caravanners". Throughout the thread, his hatred of motorhomes was clear. However, he is the admin for that page and it appears that he might have abused the powers that confers to 'sanitise' the thread by deleting some of the comments pointing out where he is mistaken. This was done after someone posted an intention to formally complain -- a post that also "disappeared", and members of the motorhoming community have now been locked out of the thread and thus prevented from responding.
While I suspect that Mr Kinnaird might claim this was merely his person opinion, which he is entitled to express, and that he acted as an individual, he implicitly acted and posted as a council representative. This is evident from his comment in which he mentions a meeting with Fife council (who he claims carried on with the aire regardless) and also his comment, "We'll continue to monitor and audit in the coming seasons and if it's turning out to be a liability rather than an asset, then a decision will have to be made on whether or not it's worth going forward with or if motorhomers are just too much hassle for not enough return. That's how it's looking to me so far."
This is not the behaviour that the Benarty Community deserve. It is totally unbecoming of a council official and possibly breaches the rules of conduct for those holding public office.

Just one small point, I think person opinion should be personal opinion, otherwise I think an excellent post.

 

[maureenandtom]

I wonder if Tom has any interests he should declare:

An immediate reply isn't expected. The Community Council has 20 working days in which to reply.

 

[mikejay]

He is a director of Benarty community forum if no one has already checked Link

Mike

 

[GeoffL]

Well, that's my complaint sent to Fife CC using their procedure. I've asked that TK be reprimanded at the very least and removal from office considered if this is a repeat offence.

He is a director of Benarty community forum if no one has already checked Link

Hmmm.... I noted this after sending my complaint and followed up on it to get a list of current and past directors. I also brought up the current list of Benarty Community Council (BCC) members for cross-referencing purposes to find TK the only common member. From this exercise, I get a cold feeling because BCC say on their 'about' page that, "Benarty Community Council is an independent statutory public body run by elected volunteers. Community Councils bring the views of communities to Councils and other public bodies." My hope is that being statutory makes them accountable -- but I have a horrible feeling that being "independent" might take them beyond the scope of the rules of conduct for those in public office.

 

[Val54]

Well, that's my complaint sent to Fife CC using their procedure. I've asked that TK be reprimanded at the very least and removal from office considered if this is a repeat offence.


Hmmm.... I noted this after sending my complaint and followed up on it to get a list of current and past directors. I also brought up the current list of Benarty Community Council (BCC) members for cross-referencing purposes to find TK the only common member. From this exercise, I get a cold feeling because BCC say on their 'about' page that, "Benarty Community Council is an independent statutory public body run by elected volunteers. Community Councils bring the views of communities to Councils and other public bodies." My hope is that being statutory makes them accountable -- but I have a horrible feeling that being "independent" might take them beyond the scope of the rules of conduct for those in public office.

You can find the code of conduct for community councillors here ....

Community councillors: code of conduct

Code of conduct for community councillors, agreed in 2009.

www.gov.scot

 

[Fisherman]

I have received this email from Fife Council.
However I requested that they reply by phone, and have replied asking that they do so.
But the reply is exactly what I expected.
That I should make the complaint to the community council.
So what they are in effect saying that I should complain to Tom Kinnaird, about Tom Kinnaird.
Shouting at the moon comes to mind.
It looks like I will now have take matters further with the ombudsman.

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for submitting your recent online complaints form dated 01/11/2021.

Unfortunately, Fife Council do not investigate complaints against Community Councils or its Office bearers.

If you are dissatisfied with the actions of the Community Council or an Office bearer and wish to raise a complaint, this should be submitted in writing and sent directly to the Community Council in terms of the Community Council Complaints Process.

I have included a link to the Community Council webpage and have attached the Scheme of Establishment document, please see section 14.0 page 22 of the Scheme of Establishment and also the appendix Schedule 4 (page 37-44) for further details on how to raise a complaint against a Community Council or it's Office bearers.

https://www.fife.gov.uk/kb/docs/art...politicians-and-committees/community-councils

Kind regards


Escalation & Resolution Team
Customer & Online Services

 

[GeoffL]

I have received this email from Fife Council.
However I requested that they reply by phone, and have replied asking that they do so.
But the reply is exactly what I expected.
That I should make the complaint to the community council.
So what they are in effect saying that I should complain to Tom Kinnaird, about Tom Kinnaird.
Shouting at the moon comes to mind.
It looks like I will now have take matters further with the ombudsman.

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for submitting your recent online complaints form dated 01/11/2021.

Unfortunately, Fife Council do not investigate complaints against Community Councils or its Office bearers.

If you are dissatisfied with the actions of the Community Council or an Office bearer and wish to raise a complaint, this should be submitted in writing and sent directly to the Community Council in terms of the Community Council Complaints Process.

I have included a link to the Community Council webpage and have attached the Scheme of Establishment document, please see section 14.0 page 22 of the Scheme of Establishment and also the appendix Schedule 4 (page 37-44) for further details on how to raise a complaint against a Community Council or it's Office bearers.

https://www.fife.gov.uk/kb/docs/art...politicians-and-committees/community-councils

Kind regards


Escalation & Resolution Team
Customer & Online Services

I've just received an email saying exactly the same thing. I tried following the link but that just goes back to Fife council, who say they can't field the complaint: so catch 22. I followed the link that @Val54 posted to download the code of conduct and I'm certain that TK has violated at least 2 requirements (objectivity and honesty). Unfortunately, it seems that I would need to complain to BCC themselves about the conduct of their chair!

 

[Fisherman]

This is his code of conduct.
The most important part is the first line under the heading.

CODE OF CONDUCT FOR COMMUNITY COUNCILLORS
The Code of Conduct for Community Councillors is largely based on the Code of Conduct for Fife Council councillors and relevant public bodies as provided for in:
The Ethical Standards in Public Life etc. (Scotland) Act 2000
Community councillors, as elected representatives of their communities, have a responsibility to make sure that they are familiar with, and that their actions comply with, the principles set out in this Code of Conduct.
The Code of Conduct and its principles shall apply to all Community Councillors and those agreed and minuted as representing the Community Council. These principles are as follows:
1. Service to the Community (Public Service) 2. Selflessness
3. Integrity
4. Objectivity
5. Accountability and Stewardship 6. Openness
7. Honesty
8. Leadership
9. Respect
1. Service to the Community
As a Community Councillor you have a duty to act in the interests of the local community, which you have been elected or nominated to represent. You also have a duty to act in accordance with the remit of Fife Council’s Scheme of Establishment for Community Councils (2021) as set out by Fife Council under the terms of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973.
You have a duty to establish and reflect, through the Community Council, the views of the community as a whole, on any issue, irrespective of personal opinion.
You should ensure that you are, within reason, accessible to your local community and local residents. You should not attend meetings or events in your capacity as a Community Councillor under the influence of any substance which may impair your judgement or conduct.
Various mechanisms to enable the general community to express their views, i.e. suggestion boxes, community surveys, opinion polls should be made available where appropriate.
SCHEDULE 3

 

[Fisherman]

I've just received an email saying exactly the same thing. I tried following the link but that just goes back to Fife council, who say they can't field the complaint: so catch 22. I followed the link that @Val54 posted to download the code of conduct and I'm certain that TK has violated at least 2 requirements (objectivity and honesty). Unfortunately, it seems that I would need to complain to BCC themselves about the conduct of their chair!

If they stick to this nonsense, then we have to complain to the ombudsman about TK and Fifes complaints procedures.
I await my phone call, I will keep you all posted.

 

[Val54]

The SPSO will only look at a complaint after you have followed the council's own complaint procedure. Normally that would mean the complaint would be looked at by an officer not involved in the substance of the complaint. Clearly that won't happen here. If TK fails to respond within a reasonable period then you will be able to use that to force the SPSO to investigate.

Although it will take time, you need to give him enough rope to "hang" himself, as the saying goes.

 

[Fisherman]

I've given up on the idea of complaining to the Benarty Community as I suspect that a certain Mr Kinnaird would be the one to receive the complaint, which would probably just end up in the round filing cabinet on the floor. However, I intend to complain to Fife Council. That said, complaining to councils is not something I've done before, so I'd be grateful for some 'peer review' of the following draft:

My complaint concerns the bigotry and vitriolic hatred expressed by the Chair of Benarty Community Council (Tom Kinnaird) against motorhomers on his Facebook page "Benarty Matters". "John Purdie" started a thread on that page entitled "Is This Scotland's Oldest Aire?" and linked to a YouTube video by Cameron McNeish praising the aire at Lochore Meadows. Mr Kinnaird made the first comment to that thread and, with no justification, implied that all motorhomers spend "£50,000 and upwards" and come "preloaded with tea, coffee and food so won't spend a penny locally". Later, again with no justification, he accused motorhomers of "hatred against campers and caravanners". Throughout the thread, his hatred of motorhomes was clear. However, he is the admin for that page and it appears that he might have abused the powers that confers to 'sanitise' the thread by deleting some of the comments pointing out where he is mistaken. This was done after someone posted an intention to formally complain -- a post that also "disappeared", and members of the motorhoming community have now been locked out of the thread and thus prevented from responding.
While I suspect that Mr Kinnaird might claim this was merely his person opinion, which he is entitled to express, and that he acted as an individual, he implicitly acted and posted as a council representative. This is evident from his comment in which he mentions a meeting with Fife council (who he claims carried on with the aire regardless) and also his comment, "We'll continue to monitor and audit in the coming seasons and if it's turning out to be a liability rather than an asset, then a decision will have to be made on whether or not it's worth going forward with or if motorhomers are just too much hassle for not enough return. That's how it's looking to me so far."
This is not the behaviour that the Benarty Community deserve. It is totally unbecoming of a council official and possibly breaches the rules of conduct for those holding public office.

Excellent Geoff well done.

 

[Val54]

The SPSO will only look at a complaint after you have followed the council's own complaint procedure. Normally that would mean the complaint would be looked at by an officer not involved in the substance of the complaint. Clearly that won't happen here. If TK fails to respond within a reasonable period then you will be able to use that to force the SPSO to investigate.

Although it will take time, you need to give him enough rope to "hang" himself, as the saying goes.

You should also bear in mind that the content past and future of this thread might also be part of an SPSO investigation.

 

[GeoffL]

The code of conduct can be downloaded in PDF form using the link @Val54 provided upthread. However, three sections from the code of conduct that I feel TK has violated follow:

Objectivity
In all your decisions and opinions as a Community Councillor, you must endeavour to represent the overall views of your community, taking account of information which is provided to you or is publicly available, assessing its merit and gathering information as appropriate, whilst laying aside personal opinions or preferences.
You may be appointed or nominated by your Community Council to serve as a member of another representative body. You should ensure that this Code of Conduct is observed when carrying out the duties of the other body.
You are free to have political and/or religious affiliations; however you must ensure that you represent the interests of your community and Community Council and not the interests of a particular political party or other group.

Honesty
You have a duty to act honestly. You also have an obligation to work within the law at all times. You must declare any private interest relating to your Community Council duties and take steps to resolve any conflicts arising in a way that protects the interest of the community and the Community Council.

Respect
You must respect fellow members of your Community Council and those that you represent, treating them with courtesy, respect and in a non-discriminatory manner at all times. This should extend to any person, regardless of their position, you have dealings with in your capacity as a Community Councillor.

Clearly, he has not laid aside his personal opinions and preferences in his attack on motorhomers. He has implicitly implied that all motorhomes cost over £50k and that motorhomers hate tent campers and caravanners -- both false. He most definitely has not extended respect to our community.

 

[Fisherman]

Just got this from Fife Council

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, this department only has access to email as we are home working and not provided with mobile telephones so could not comply with your preferred contact method.

We are sorry that we are in this position. This department sought advice internally about the matter and were given the process that we shared with you as to how you could raise your complaint. We remain unclear who would be best to contact you given that Fife Council do not investigate complaints about Community Councils and respectfully ask that you follow the process in your issue concerning Benarty Community Council.

Perhaps an email to community.councils@fife.gov.uk would give you access directly to colleagues that could respond to the likely questions you may have

Kind regards

Escalation & Resolution Team
Customer & Online Services

My reply

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thanks again for your reply, but I am astounded that Fife council have no way of contacting anyone by phone.

The solution to this issue you have offered myself, and others is completely unacceptable.
What you are basically saying is that I should complain to Tom Kinnaird about Tom Kinnaird.
Surely Fife council must accept responsibility for the actions of their elected councillors and community council officials.
Writing to Benarty council to complain about Tom Kinnaird would be akin to shouting at the moon.
A complete waste of time in my honest opinion.

If this is indeed the only way this matter can be looked into, then I will have to take this to the Ombudsman Service.
Thanks again for your replies.

Regards

 

[caledonia]

As I posted earlier the average Joe who knows nothing about our hobby thinks we should use the places provided for our big fancy motorhomes which are campsites. I agree big Tam is probably jealous and has nothing better to do with his time but unless a complaint lands on the desk of a fellow motorhome owner the words farting and thunder spring to mind.

 

[myvanwy]

Just a thought guys, do you add receipts to your emails? I know, sucking eggs.

 

[GeoffL]

Just got this from Fife Council

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, this department only has access to email as we are home working and not provided with mobile telephones so could not comply with your preferred contact method.

We are sorry that we are in this position. This department sought advice internally about the matter and were given the process that we shared with you as to how you could raise your complaint. We remain unclear who would be best to contact you given that Fife Council do not investigate complaints about Community Councils and respectfully ask that you follow the process in your issue concerning Benarty Community Council.

Perhaps an email to community.councils@fife.gov.uk would give you access directly to colleagues that could respond to the likely questions you may have

Kind regards

Escalation & Resolution Team
Customer & Online Services

My reply

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thanks again for your reply, but I am astounded that Fife council have no way of contacting anyone by phone.

The solution to this issue you have offered myself, and others is completely unacceptable.
What you are basically saying is that I should complain to Tom Kinnaird about Tom Kinnaird.
Surely Fife council must accept responsibility for the actions of their elected councillors and community council officials.
Writing to Benarty council to complain about Tom Kinnaird would be akin to shouting at the moon.
A complete waste of time in my honest opinion.

If this is indeed the only way this matter can be looked into, then I will have to take this to the Ombudsman Service.
Thanks again for your replies.

Regards

Here's what the document Fife Council sent me says about complaints:

A complaint can be made in writing or by email to the Chairperson, Secretary or Treasurer. If the complaint is about an office-bearer, they should not handle the complaint and another member of the community council should be identified to handle the complaint.

Now two of the four office-bearers are the person the complaint is about and his wife and I suspect that (as this is a community organisation) the other two are unlikely to be impartial! Hence the complaint is exceedingly unlikely to receive fair handling IMO. I find it astonishing that the county council has no oversight. Unfortunately, there also doesn't seem to be a direct email address for the BCC Secretary (John Purdie) -- only a 'contact' form on their website.

Edited to add: the Fife Council document also says that the community council should, "check that the complaint is competent, i.e. is not spurious or vexatious and is related to a matter within the remit of the community council to determine" So, they could dismiss any representation we make because I suspect that TK will almost certainly deem them to be 'vexatious'. You really couldn't make this up!