Induction Hobs - The Future?

Surprised it hasn’t been mentioned yet so I will :)

One big downside of induction is you can’t use it if you have a pacemaker fitted. Or rather you can briefly ONCE!

Most of these vans you see people putting all the gear in are mainly weekenders, people who use sites anyway or using outside of the U.K. except maybe summer (or short trips).

These days since folks have started adding all this gear I am no longer considered a big user of power at 65Ah per 24 hours but I can assure anyone that 200ah lifepo4 and 300W solar flat on the roof will not sustain off grid stationary use for much more than 3 days. My 65Ah isn’t including induction hob, air fryer or coffee maker which I do carry but only use in the 7 months of the year we can get battery’s recharged by the sun, (not every day though).

If you are wanting to full time in a van forget all the electrics for 5 months of the year unless you are going to use a generator a lot, EV charging points or EHU.

I would like to see figures where electric induction cooking is more efficient to a gas hob, first time I have heard that. My brain doesn’t work stuff out any more but I have a very knowledgable gas man I can ask if someone has figures.

Im no culinary expert for sure when it comes to cooking at least but I always thought gas was best. Isn't it what most restaurants use?

I reckon our Amp hour usage must be absolutely miniscule compared to most on here. I just dont see why you would reinvent the wheel and go electric unless I am missing something. That said I can see the appeal of an absorption fridge but only from the point of view Gas ones (Well my ancient one) are not very reliable. Jets etc getting clogged up. I would fret about the amount of power its using though plus I would then have to invest in a shed more power, Lithium batteries, different controller and a new Gas Fridge is probably a lot less! :D
 
I would like to see figures where electric induction cooking is more efficient to a gas hob, first time I have heard that. My brain doesn’t work stuff out any more but I have a very knowledgable gas man I can ask if someone has figures.
What kind of figures did you want? And efficiency takes different forms.
Speed Efficiency is one. Energy Efficiency is another. Induction wins on both. Economic Efficiency is a factor. Which energy source wins depends on the cost per end kWh (remembering to apply energy efficiency to the equation).

Boiling a set volume of water on an Induction Hob is faster than a Gas Hob. That is definite. When I used the Induction Hob in my camper, I would set it to 400W, and by the time I got the teabag in the cup, milk out the fridge and sugar out, the kettle was boiling. On the Gas hob I would still be waiting.

Anyone can do a simple test ... Put a kettle on the gas ring, put an electric kettle on at the same time with the same volume of water and see which boils first. An Induction hob is extremely close to an electric kettle in terms of efficiency.

Do a search on the internet and you will find loads of tests carried out. Not specifically in a camper, but still Induction vs Gas
Example: https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/apr/05/whats-better-for-cooking-gas-or-induction-hobs
“It’s quick, efficient and you don’t get too hot while cooking, because it’s not throwing heat at you,” she says. “It’s also lower on energy, which everyone will now be needing.” On that point, Which? conducted a hob speed test last year, comparing the time it takes to boil a large pan of water: gas came in at 9.69 minutes and induction 4.81. But that’s not the only reason to consider induction. “There’s no point of ignition, so you don’t have to worry about things like frying pans catching fire,” Hayward says. Plus, it’s very controllable: “You can turn the power on or off, and expect a response in the pan within seconds.”

It is also fairly obvious TBH ... just think how much heat is thrown out into the air by a gas ring compared to an Electric ring. And an Induction Top is better still. First time I went away in my al-electric camper, the Chinese Diesel Heater wouldn't start (no shock there!). solution ... boil a kettle to make a couple of cups of Hot Chocolate. But not on the Induction stove. Instead get out the portable gas stove and use that. All the excess heat warmed up the van nicely.


If you want some figures ..... To raise a given volume of water to a given temperature, you need a given amount of power (Wh). It does not matter if the power is provided by Gas, Electric, or whatever.
Formula and example is here:
volume in litres x 4 x temperature rise in degrees centigrade / 3412
(4 being a factor and 3412 being a given constant)
for example 100 litres of water, to be heated from 20ºC to 50ºC, giving a temperature rise of 30ºC would give –
100 x 4 x 30 / 3412 = 3.52
meaning that the water would be heated in 1 hour by 3.5kW of applied heat.

It's far more efficient to heat cookware directly instead of indirectly. Induction is able to deliver roughly 80% to 90% of its electromagnetic energy to the food in the pan. Compare that to gas, which converts a mere 38% of its energy, and electric, which can only manage roughly 70%.
So you are using over twice as much KWh of gas compared to Electric Induction to perform the same task.

The only question about if gas is more efficient is around the cost of the energy. And that depends on the setup.
Let's look at Campers specifically
You could say Gas is cheaper as you need to spend £xx on batteries to store the electric to then drive the Induction Hob. But bear in mind you would have to spend £yy on a gas installation to do the same. and who says £yy is less than £xx?
If you take it from the point of you have the infrastructure there and cost from that point, it is then a question of incremental costs. How much is a Calor Gas bottle in terms of energy?
6Kg Calor Bottle costs around £24. That bottle contains 85kWh of energy (6 x 14kWh). That works out to be 28p/kWh
efficiency is 38% so to get an effective 1kWh of energy "at the pot" costs 74p/kWh.
Let's say we are on EHU and charged 50p/kWh? that will cost between 55-60p/kWh "at the pot" - so Induction wins on cost efficiency as well as energy and speed. If off-grid and Inverter, add in 10% for conversion inefficiency in terms of Energy efficiency, but cost comparision is tricky as it depends how the stored power was generated? Solar? Free! B2B? bit of extra MPG maybe but minimal. Previous EHU? say 50p a kWh. Generator? Petrol contains 9.5kWh per Litre, so gross figure is 14.75p/kWh but how efficient is the conversion of petrol to 'transmitted' kWh to the 12V DC system? I think they are actually fairly efficient.


Interestingly, when you look at the following options, it is quite surprising ....
using LPG (via Bottles) for cooking is the most costly option compared to EHU or even a Generator. Once the infrastructure is in place, LPG is also more expensive than stored battery power.

Is having a stored battery infrastructure always more expensive than an LPG one? all depends. What needs to be included in the costing is also the applicance costs - a Gas hob is a couple of hundred pounds. An induction Hob is around £60. Gas Oven is a few hundred. Air Fryer is around £60 again. And of course a lot of the electric infrastructure will be installed regardless as a Leisure Battery system is needed in a Motorhome.
 
Im no culinary expert for sure when it comes to cooking at least but I always thought gas was best. Isn't it what most restaurants use?

I reckon our Amp hour usage must be absolutely miniscule compared to most on here. I just dont see why you would reinvent the wheel and go electric unless I am missing something. That said I can see the appeal of an absorption fridge but only from the point of view Gas ones (Well my ancient one) are not very reliable. Jets etc getting clogged up. I would fret about the amount of power its using though plus I would then have to invest in a shed more power, Lithium batteries, different controller and a new Gas Fridge is probably a lot less! :D
Your amp usage may be miniscile, but your kj's will probably be more. You have to refill your kj's, with the right set up, it's possible to harvest your kj's.

Pay now, or pay latter.
 
If your full time ! that's not wild camping, that's life. Lol

If your on gas you should tell them at tunnels ! But we don't, just turn it off from bottal that will be OK. It illegal to drive through Blackwall tunnel with canisters open or close..

I thinking about 10 year or more life from liveithem battery cells. if I make it out off 2024 ?. 280 ah x 2 = 500ah 10 years emergency use ie 5 days a month hard usage no gaz.

But this week we have saved £4 should be £8 just on good chips as we got the bingo thing for inside airfryer nice chips Lidl

We will never again go get gas that's a saving. Just saying
 
If specifying a new van I would consider going all electric with; lithium, maximum solar and B2B. Based on our experience over the last 14 years what we have works for us.

Our 2009 Adria Twin PVC came with 85ah gel battery, split charge relay, no solar, which after 3½ years started to struggled with 2 nights off grid. April 2013 fitted 140W solar and 2 x 125ah AGM batteries (£489). Batteries lasted until April 2021 (8 years) replaced with 2 x 120ah AGM batteries (£200). The battery monitor rarely shows less than 90% remaining capacity.
 
What kind of figures did you want? And efficiency takes different forms.
Speed Efficiency is one. Energy Efficiency is another. Induction wins on both. Economic Efficiency is a factor. Which energy source wins depends on the cost per end kWh (remembering to apply energy efficiency to the equation).

Boiling a set volume of water on an Induction Hob is faster than a Gas Hob. That is definite. When I used the Induction Hob in my camper, I would set it to 400W, and by the time I got the teabag in the cup, milk out the fridge and sugar out, the kettle was boiling. On the Gas hob I would still be waiting.

Anyone can do a simple test ... Put a kettle on the gas ring, put an electric kettle on at the same time with the same volume of water and see which boils first. An Induction hob is extremely close to an electric kettle in terms of efficiency.

Do a search on the internet and you will find loads of tests carried out. Not specifically in a camper, but still Induction vs Gas
Example: https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/apr/05/whats-better-for-cooking-gas-or-induction-hobs
“It’s quick, efficient and you don’t get too hot while cooking, because it’s not throwing heat at you,” she says. “It’s also lower on energy, which everyone will now be needing.” On that point, Which? conducted a hob speed test last year, comparing the time it takes to boil a large pan of water: gas came in at 9.69 minutes and induction 4.81. But that’s not the only reason to consider induction. “There’s no point of ignition, so you don’t have to worry about things like frying pans catching fire,” Hayward says. Plus, it’s very controllable: “You can turn the power on or off, and expect a response in the pan within seconds.”

It is also fairly obvious TBH ... just think how much heat is thrown out into the air by a gas ring compared to an Electric ring. And an Induction Top is better still. First time I went away in my al-electric camper, the Chinese Diesel Heater wouldn't start (no shock there!). solution ... boil a kettle to make a couple of cups of Hot Chocolate. But not on the Induction stove. Instead get out the portable gas stove and use that. All the excess heat warmed up the van nicely.


If you want some figures ..... To raise a given volume of water to a given temperature, you need a given amount of power (Wh). It does not matter if the power is provided by Gas, Electric, or whatever.
Formula and example is here:
volume in litres x 4 x temperature rise in degrees centigrade / 3412
(4 being a factor and 3412 being a given constant)
for example 100 litres of water, to be heated from 20ºC to 50ºC, giving a temperature rise of 30ºC would give –
100 x 4 x 30 / 3412 = 3.52
meaning that the water would be heated in 1 hour by 3.5kW of applied heat.

It's far more efficient to heat cookware directly instead of indirectly. Induction is able to deliver roughly 80% to 90% of its electromagnetic energy to the food in the pan. Compare that to gas, which converts a mere 38% of its energy, and electric, which can only manage roughly 70%.
So you are using over twice as much KWh of gas compared to Electric Induction to perform the same task.

The only question about if gas is more efficient is around the cost of the energy. And that depends on the setup.
Let's look at Campers specifically
You could say Gas is cheaper as you need to spend £xx on batteries to store the electric to then drive the Induction Hob. But bear in mind you would have to spend £yy on a gas installation to do the same. and who says £yy is less than £xx?
If you take it from the point of you have the infrastructure there and cost from that point, it is then a question of incremental costs. How much is a Calor Gas bottle in terms of energy?
6Kg Calor Bottle costs around £24. That bottle contains 85kWh of energy (6 x 14kWh). That works out to be 28p/kWh
efficiency is 38% so to get an effective 1kWh of energy "at the pot" costs 74p/kWh.
Let's say we are on EHU and charged 50p/kWh? that will cost between 55-60p/kWh "at the pot" - so Induction wins on cost efficiency as well as energy and speed. If off-grid and Inverter, add in 10% for conversion inefficiency in terms of Energy efficiency, but cost comparision is tricky as it depends how the stored power was generated? Solar? Free! B2B? bit of extra MPG maybe but minimal. Previous EHU? say 50p a kWh. Generator? Petrol contains 9.5kWh per Litre, so gross figure is 14.75p/kWh but how efficient is the conversion of petrol to 'transmitted' kWh to the 12V DC system? I think they are actually fairly efficient.


Interestingly, when you look at the following options, it is quite surprising ....
using LPG (via Bottles) for cooking is the most costly option compared to EHU or even a Generator. Once the infrastructure is in place, LPG is also more expensive than stored battery power.

Is having a stored battery infrastructure always more expensive than an LPG one? all depends. What needs to be included in the costing is also the applicance costs - a Gas hob is a couple of hundred pounds. An induction Hob is around £60. Gas Oven is a few hundred. Air Fryer is around £60 again. And of course a lot of the electric infrastructure will be installed regardless as a Leisure Battery system is needed in a Motorhome.

Very interesting and informative however you forgot to factor in one thing. The risk of running out of power. Lets say you are off grid in a field for two or three weeks and your using all this power to cook three meals a day, boil several kettles, run an absorption fridge. The weather is not so great and hardly any sun or there is no sun for maybe three or four days. What happens if your batteries get to the point where they "have" to be charged again to continue? Are you not going to be in trouble?
 
Your amp usage may be miniscile, but your kj's will probably be more. You have to refill your kj's, with the right set up, it's possible to harvest your kj's.

Pay now, or pay latter.

From my point of view I know though how long my LPG supply will last and I can always replace it / top it up without moving the van so technically the LPG is infinite and I can use as much as a I like without worry. I cannot guarantee the weather but I know pretty much for sure that April to end of September I "should" have enough power in my tiny set up to stay indefinitely off grid in one place without moving the van or needing generators etc.
 
Im no culinary expert for sure when it comes to cooking at least but I always thought gas was best. Isn't it what most restaurants use?

I reckon our Amp hour usage must be absolutely miniscule compared to most on here. I just dont see why you would reinvent the wheel and go electric unless I am missing something. That said I can see the appeal of an absorption fridge but only from the point of view Gas ones (Well my ancient one) are not very reliable. Jets etc getting clogged up. I would fret about the amount of power its using though plus I would then have to invest in a shed more power, Lithium batteries, different controller and a new Gas Fridge is probably a lot less! :D
Investing in lithium would be a game changer Barry.
Yes I know you may also have to change your controller, and your mains charger, but honestly I don’t think you would regret it, if finances allow. On or last trip we spent three nights without moving no solar and our two 100ah lithiums did not go below 60%. We watched tv used our lighting etc. I honestly think it’s time manufacturers stopped supplying vans with lead batteries.
 
Am I right in thinking , this is nearly 5 hours worth of driving to take back to 100% and that’s with my harvesting 1.25 kw of solar each day I’ve been parked up


1560CD0F-1F71-4B88-B8A0-A3D821195414.jpeg
 
What kind of figures did you want? And efficiency takes different forms.
Speed Efficiency is one. Energy Efficiency is another. Induction wins on both. Economic Efficiency is a factor. Which energy source wins depends on the cost per end kWh (remembering to apply energy efficiency to the equation).

Boiling a set volume of water on an Induction Hob is faster than a Gas Hob. That is definite. When I used the Induction Hob in my camper, I would set it to 400W, and by the time I got the teabag in the cup, milk out the fridge and sugar out, the kettle was boiling. On the Gas hob I would still be waiting.

Anyone can do a simple test ... Put a kettle on the gas ring, put an electric kettle on at the same time with the same volume of water and see which boils first. An Induction hob is extremely close to an electric kettle in terms of efficiency.

Do a search on the internet and you will find loads of tests carried out. Not specifically in a camper, but still Induction vs Gas
Example: https://www.theguardian.com/food/2022/apr/05/whats-better-for-cooking-gas-or-induction-hobs
“It’s quick, efficient and you don’t get too hot while cooking, because it’s not throwing heat at you,” she says. “It’s also lower on energy, which everyone will now be needing.” On that point, Which? conducted a hob speed test last year, comparing the time it takes to boil a large pan of water: gas came in at 9.69 minutes and induction 4.81. But that’s not the only reason to consider induction. “There’s no point of ignition, so you don’t have to worry about things like frying pans catching fire,” Hayward says. Plus, it’s very controllable: “You can turn the power on or off, and expect a response in the pan within seconds.”

It is also fairly obvious TBH ... just think how much heat is thrown out into the air by a gas ring compared to an Electric ring. And an Induction Top is better still. First time I went away in my al-electric camper, the Chinese Diesel Heater wouldn't start (no shock there!). solution ... boil a kettle to make a couple of cups of Hot Chocolate. But not on the Induction stove. Instead get out the portable gas stove and use that. All the excess heat warmed up the van nicely.


If you want some figures ..... To raise a given volume of water to a given temperature, you need a given amount of power (Wh). It does not matter if the power is provided by Gas, Electric, or whatever.
Formula and example is here:
volume in litres x 4 x temperature rise in degrees centigrade / 3412
(4 being a factor and 3412 being a given constant)
for example 100 litres of water, to be heated from 20ºC to 50ºC, giving a temperature rise of 30ºC would give –
100 x 4 x 30 / 3412 = 3.52
meaning that the water would be heated in 1 hour by 3.5kW of applied heat.

It's far more efficient to heat cookware directly instead of indirectly. Induction is able to deliver roughly 80% to 90% of its electromagnetic energy to the food in the pan. Compare that to gas, which converts a mere 38% of its energy, and electric, which can only manage roughly 70%.
So you are using over twice as much KWh of gas compared to Electric Induction to perform the same task.

The only question about if gas is more efficient is around the cost of the energy. And that depends on the setup.
Let's look at Campers specifically
You could say Gas is cheaper as you need to spend £xx on batteries to store the electric to then drive the Induction Hob. But bear in mind you would have to spend £yy on a gas installation to do the same. and who says £yy is less than £xx?
If you take it from the point of you have the infrastructure there and cost from that point, it is then a question of incremental costs. How much is a Calor Gas bottle in terms of energy?
6Kg Calor Bottle costs around £24. That bottle contains 85kWh of energy (6 x 14kWh). That works out to be 28p/kWh
efficiency is 38% so to get an effective 1kWh of energy "at the pot" costs 74p/kWh.
Let's say we are on EHU and charged 50p/kWh? that will cost between 55-60p/kWh "at the pot" - so Induction wins on cost efficiency as well as energy and speed. If off-grid and Inverter, add in 10% for conversion inefficiency in terms of Energy efficiency, but cost comparision is tricky as it depends how the stored power was generated? Solar? Free! B2B? bit of extra MPG maybe but minimal. Previous EHU? say 50p a kWh. Generator? Petrol contains 9.5kWh per Litre, so gross figure is 14.75p/kWh but how efficient is the conversion of petrol to 'transmitted' kWh to the 12V DC system? I think they are actually fairly efficient.


Interestingly, when you look at the following options, it is quite surprising ....
using LPG (via Bottles) for cooking is the most costly option compared to EHU or even a Generator. Once the infrastructure is in place, LPG is also more expensive than stored battery power.

Is having a stored battery infrastructure always more expensive than an LPG one? all depends. What needs to be included in the costing is also the applicance costs - a Gas hob is a couple of hundred pounds. An induction Hob is around £60. Gas Oven is a few hundred. Air Fryer is around £60 again. And of course a lot of the electric infrastructure will be installed regardless as a Leisure Battery system is needed in a Motorhome.

Now that is an awsome answer.
 
From my point of view I know though how long my LPG supply will last and I can always replace it / top it up without moving the van so technically the LPG is infinite and I can use as much as a I like without worry. I cannot guarantee the weather but I know pretty much for sure that April to end of September I "should" have enough power in my tiny set up to stay indefinitely off grid in one place without moving the van or needing generators etc.

Yes, if you park up for a week or weeks, still best to have LPG. I haven't done away with my gas cooker, but induction hob is a great addition, and it's brilliant outside where half the heat doesn't get blown away.
Good to have options though, I still carry a carena burner on a campingaz bottle if all else fails. :LOL:
 
Im no culinary expert for sure when it comes to cooking at least but I always thought gas was best. Isn't it what most restaurants use?
Neither am I, but I reckon it could be to do with instant high/low settings.
Don't know it an induction hob does the same.
 
Investing in lithium would be a game changer Barry.
Yes I know you may also have to change your controller, and your mains charger, but honestly I don’t think you would regret it, if finances allow. On or last trip we spent three nights without moving no solar and our two 100ah lithiums did not go below 60%. We watched tv used our lighting etc. I honestly think it’s time manufacturers stopped supplying vans with lead batteries.

Don't get me wrong Bill. I totally agree. They sound fantastic. Im very interested in the technology and getting the best possible power systems for your van. Our current van is from the last century though and ill wait until we change before I even begin to think about putting in banks of solar, new controllers and lithium. Our style of touring has changed though and we now for various reasons stay off grid without moving for some considerable time. I think even with Lithium I would still maintain a similar low usage system to what we have now and would still stick with LPG. I can always whack a Calor bottle on the back of the scooter, I cannot make the sun shine! :D
 
Neither am I, but I reckon it could be to do with instant high/low settings.
Don't know it an induction hob does the same.

We cant get mains gas here but our restaurant / pub which was a top eatery insisted on using Gas for cooking and there was always a stack of 48 litre Calor bottles out the back. I dont watch a lot of cookery programs but Im pretty sure they are usually cooking on gas! Its even a saying isnt it? :D
 
Not necessarily ....

Out transit conversion was all electric cooking ...

Solar/split charge
3 x 100ah batteries
And a large inverter to run
Kettle
Slow cooker
Microwave
Air fryer
Toaster ....

Easy to state something doesn't work or won't work when you've no real world experience of it .

Never once needed hook up ...
Summer wise ...the solar handled it easily
Batteries were usually back up to 100% by mid day

Winter time we usually moved on each couple of days
So the Split charge did the work .
Can I ask how much solar you have.
 

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Back
Top