Incident at C&MC site Culloden Moor

[landoboguy]

Covid risk assessments don't have to be done if less than five employees but a good management would produce one anyway in order to support their staff, hopefully they will look at what happened on this site and have a plan to prevent recurrence. A goodwill gesture might help appease but not hopeful that it will be forthcoming.

Covid risk assesments need to be done for the public safety though

 

[mickymost]

We decided not to have a shower for several reasons, although we do have a toilet. I do think that if a site offers the facilities, they should be clean & safe...and it is the choice of the individual whether they wish to use them in these times. Don't understand why some people have become so careless ( and even deliberately misuse) since Covid....it seems to have brought out the worse in some individuals and is so sad.

Facilities should be clean and safe but probably not enough staff to cope since Pandemic changed things.Are people any worse since Covid or are folk more sensitive now and the ones being careful obviously will get irritated by the ones that arent.

 

[mickymost]

don't mind a stand up pee but even this is not often a great experience .

Especially when your soo desperate and stood behind 200 people knowing you will be there 16 hours later before your turn

 

[mickymost]

Covid risk assesments need to be done for the public safety though

Well its seems the Club Sites opened as soon as Lockdown was released, they became fully booked,werent ready for the Incoming Tide of people and are now paying the price.Temporary Staff handing in their notice,or walking on the spot because they have had enough.I dont personally blame them.No support from up top so probably Bye Bye campsite and stick it where the sun dont shine!


Michael

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Absolutely right Ruth, we can only surmise from the other reviews of the site that toilets in both sections were overflowing and that someone had kicked down the cubicle door(s) to find a working toilet, possibly leaving doors hanging off etc. So I get that there might have been a crisis but the response was diabolical. There must have been the option of calling in outside help, either from area managers or private contractors. To simply opt to close the toilets and not spend money sorting the problem out before the next morning is unacceptable but typical of CMC. I hope the OP gets a proper response.

I understand that they have had mega problems recruiting new staff and have had existing staff leaving in their droves, Dave.

Guessing that recruitment or hiring private contractors also not as straight forward as you think, plus this is the C&MC we're talking about, not so hot with staff at the best of times!

Folks will be very wary about taking on toilet/shower cleaning jobs on campsites in the current situation, especially in the age group that would normally be applying for these sort of jobs.

Remember the shout out for fruit and veg pickers earlier in the year due to regular migrant pickers not coming into the country? Hardly any take up from Brits there either, so staff shortages on camp sites right now doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[SquirrellCook]

Contract cleaners are a waste of time, as they are encouraged to finish the job quickly.

 

[Val54]

I understand that they have had mega problems recruiting new staff and have had existing staff leaving in their droves, Dave.

Guessing that recruitment or hiring private contractors also not as straight forward as you think, plus this is the C&MC we're talking about, not so hot with staff at the best of times!

Folks will be very wary about taking on toilet/shower cleaning jobs on campsites in the current situation, especially in the age group that would normally be applying for these sort of jobs.

Remember the shout out for fruit and veg pickers earlier in the year due to regular migrant pickers not coming into the country? Hardly any take up from Brits there either, so staff shortages on camp sites right now doesn't surprise me at all.

I'm not underestimating CMC's longer term problems Marie, but I'm guessing there was no immediate reaction from management when things started to go wrong early on. It was a simple fix to close all toilet facilities and make everyone use their own vans. Equally Dynarod (other firms are available) are on 24 hour call out so I don't buy in to CMC's decision to close rather than call in help. As you say CMC have a track record for not spending money where its needed.

 

[antiquesam]

So do I feel for people not being able to express their opinion without being accused of genecide
whats the old saying, please ensure brain is engaged putting your mouth into gear.

I too had a PM from the OP, even though I thought my post said it all and was as objective as I could make it, I took the time to explain it in more detail to avoid upset.
And Ill say again, I value all of Bills posts on here

Have I missed something? Who has committed genocide? I try to keep up with the news but sometimes it's difficult. I'm sure it wasn't on the news.

 

[sparrks]

On the 4 August the warden at Culloden Moor campsite closed the toilet facilities for almost 24 hours.


You also failed to mention the reply I received from the warden when simply asking what had transpired, and why I was being refused access to facilities that I and others had paid for. His response was rude and offensive, I had every right to ask what was going on. The fact remains that approximately 200 people who had paid for the use of toilet facilities were denied access due to the actions of what appears to have been one stupid individual. And it’s even possible that the culprit had left the campsite before these draconian measures were taken. It’s also possible that what transpired were the actions of an individual out-with the campsite who simply entered the campsite to use the toilet facilities. One camper witnessed a couple who had been out walking entering the campsite using the toilets then leaving again.


Regards

You say over 200 people a day using toilet. That I believe is one every 6 minutes if they only use it once a day . When do they have time to use clean it etc and if one or more people are abusing it then I can understand the management closing it for a while. Surprised that they actually reopened it. With Covid etc.

Toilets locked and there's 200 queuing for it

Especially when your soo desperate and stood behind 200 people knowing you will be there 16 hours later before your turn

It's funny what you can read into things if you so wish - nowhere did Fisherman state that there were 200 people queuing or waiting/wanting to use a toilet just that approximately 200 people who had paid for the use of toilet facilities were denied access for facilities that they had paid for, rather like staying on a large site with swimming pool that maybe a 100 out of the 500 people staying there would use only to find that the pool was closed denying access to 500 people.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

I'm not underestimating CMC's longer term problems Marie, but I'm guessing there was no immediate reaction from management when things started to go wrong early on. It was a simple fix to close all toilet facilities and make everyone use their own vans. Equally Dynarod (other firms are available) are on 24 hour call out so I don't buy in to CMC's decision to close rather than call in help. As you say CMC have a track record for not spending money where its needed.

You are probably right there, Dave.

But the club have been spending a fair sum the last couple of years jumping on the latest 'fad' bandwagon by installing those daft holiday 'pods' etc. on some of their sites, then expecting wardens to just absorb the extra work required to clean and turn them around in between bookings.That's enough extra work already without factoring in the sudden arrival of covid...

It is self evident in many of the recent scenarios outlined by my friends working for the club (both pre and post-covid, btw) that head office 'management' who make these sort of business decisions don't seem seem to have much experience or wisdom under their belts when it comes to the hospitality industry. Maybe it's an age thing? Or not hiring the right people at the top? At the very least they don't seem to follow it through properly when it comes to the sharp end/operational side of the job. Get the pound of flesh from the staff as much as possible, if it means more work for those down at the bottom, so what?

But hey, I don't claim that's a problem unique to the C&MC these days !

 

[brian c]

Ref 200 people denied access to the toilet they had paid to use. If you don’t want to use the toilet how can access be denied , If it had said. Off the 200 who had paid to use the toilet some found that they were denied access. Then yes. I would agree. Because to me you can’t be denied something you don’t want I am not knocking him or his thread someone standing up for his rights , great.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Pipe it down re Bill.

Covid or no covid, 20, 200 or 2,000 people queuing no difference - his point is absolutely valid.
The C&MC are like a lot of other organisations right now, i.e. totally on the back foot and disorganised or way too slow to get on top of the game, whims and 'guideline' changing by govt. notwithstanding.

This does NOT give them the right to rip people off, which is essentially what is happening here.

I have every sympathy for businesses losing money due to the pandemic, but I have no sympathy for profiteering and sloppy/lazy management, no matter what the sector

 

[Val54]

Ref 200 people denied access to the toilet they had paid to use. If you don’t want to use the toilet how can access be denied , If it had said. Off the 200 who had paid to use the toilet some found that they were denied access. Then yes. I would agree. Because to me you can’t be denied something you don’t want I am not knocking him or his thread someone standing up for his rights , great.

If you read post #4 properly it doesn't say 200 people were denied access ................. there is an important additional word "possibly" ........

 

[runnach]

Pipe it down re Bill.

Covid or no covid, 20, 200 or 2,000 people queuing no difference - his point is absolutely valid.
The C&MC are like a lot of other organisations right now, i.e. totally on the back foot and disorganised or way too slow to get on top of the game, whims and 'guideline' changing by govt. notwithstanding.

This does NOT give them the right to rip people off, which is essentially what is happening here.

I have every sympathy for businesses losing money due to the pandemic, but I have no sympathy for profiteering and sloppy/lazy management, no matter what the sector

Equally when sites re opened folk received e mails suggesting that things were as close to normal as possible but we knew it wasn’t as per pre covid.

Interpretation of government guidelines which are fragmented don’t help either.

Whether Bill has a valid complaint is for the cmc to decide

 

[brian c]

If you read post one. Which is the one I read and quoted his words. He has pm me. This was I thought dealt with ages ago until it was raised again in post 89. So from my post to post 89 I had piped down. My post was referred to highlighted. So I replied to it. Why do threads about toilets get so heated. I sincerely hope this thread which as previously stated .bill is standing up for. Great does not go the same way as the other toilet thread. Brian

 

[mariesnowgoose]

Toilets are actually incredibly important, as has been illustrated right the way through lockdown and up to today.

That's why threads have become extra heated because the virus has closed down or minimised access to public/shared facilities and they play a big part in wild camping, whether that be using the one in your van, where to empty it when it's full, and, in this latter case, whether or not you can have access to the public toilets on a paid for campsite.

People get passionate about all sorts of things and can often take things to heart where possibly no harm was intended.

Forums/social media have always been dangerous places if used as the only method of communication ...

 

[sparrks]

Ref 200 people denied access to the toilet they had paid to use. If you don’t want to use the toilet how can access be denied , If it had said. Off the 200 who had paid to use the toilet some found that they were denied access. Then yes. I would agree. Because to me you can’t be denied something you don’t want I am not knocking him or his thread someone standing up for his rights , great.

I disagree as that comment suggests only some were denied access and others were allowed access.

 

[Val54]

Toilets are actually incredibly important, as has been illustrated right the way through lockdown and up to today.

That's why threads have become extra heated because the virus has closed down or minimised access to public/shared facilities and they play a big part in wild camping, whether that be using the one in your van, where to empty it when it's full, and, in this latter case, whether or not you can have access to the public toilets on a paid for campsite.

People get passionate about all sorts of things and can often take things to heart where possibly no harm was intended.

Forums/social media have always been dangerous places if used as the only method of communication ...

It's also true from what I've seen that we (me included) have become too quick to take a thread off at a tangent. Probably a product of the times as I'm sure we didn't use to do it so frequently and we apologised when we did. For me it has got to the point that I include the appropriate emoji at the end of a light hearted post just in case people think I'm being serious.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

It's also true from what I've seen that we (me included) have become too quick to take a thread off at a tangent. Probably a product of the times as I'm sure we didn't use to do it so frequently and we apologised when we did. For me it has got to the point that I include the appropriate emoji at the end of a light hearted post just in case people think I'm being serious.

Stuck at home more, going stir crazy, bored... ???

 

[Val54]

Stuck at home more, going stir crazy, bored... ???

All of those