avandriver
Guest
Veg oil and diesel mixed is ok and legal
The illegal fuel in question is the kerosene
Steve
The illegal fuel in question is the kerosene
Steve
Don
Guest
My Appologies Steve, I missread your post. Its an age thing Sorry Mate
Don
Don
avandriver
Guest
No worries Don
Steve
Steve
sundown
Guest
hi, I have a mechanic who is also a friend, who services my van and car.
he is A1 as mechanics go.
I asked him about running the van on a mix and he was horrified.
he advised me strongly against it. he says, with proper servicing
he'll give me 300k from my engine, but if I start using mixtures he could guarentee nothing.
he told me a long story about detereoration
over a period of time.
does using a fuel mix harm the engine eventualy?
sundown
he is A1 as mechanics go.
I asked him about running the van on a mix and he was horrified.
he advised me strongly against it. he says, with proper servicing
he'll give me 300k from my engine, but if I start using mixtures he could guarentee nothing.
he told me a long story about detereoration
over a period of time.
does using a fuel mix harm the engine eventualy?
sundown
lenny
Guest
I can see where he's coming from Nick, maybe if , like myself, you have an old van and you're not worried about the resale value , you could take this risk and run it till it drops but if I was to push the boat out and go for a half decent van, I would be a little more cautious about taking the risk.
Hope this makes sense.
Hope this makes sense.
Geoff.W
Guest
As this thread has moved onto the topic of "alternative" fuels, I hope no one minds if I post this regarding some of the terminology used. Unfortunatly I often find that use of the wrong terms can lead to confusion and create difficulties when trying to understand someones point. Can I also add that this is a genuine attempt to make this subject easier to understand and is certainly not a dig at anyone who may have used the terms differently.
Here are what I believe to be the generally accepted usages.
Biofuel:- A generic term that includes all non mineral derived fuels.
Biodiesel:- A specific type of Biofuel refered to as a F.A.M.E. Fatty Acid Methyl Ester. see here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_methyl_ester
Although usualy derived from vegtable oil can actualy also be made from animal fats and even algie, by using a process known as transesterification. Pump diesel now contains between 2 & 5% biodiesel as the need to reduce sulpher content, the lubricant in mineral diesel, means that an alternative lubricant was required, a function Biodiesel performs very well.
This I believe is the most missused term, often used when refering to Biofuels or Vegtable oils.
Vegtable oil:- This can be split into 2 catagories S.V.O. Straight Vegtable oil, the stuff you buy from Tesco Asda etc. and W.V.O. Waste Vegtable Oil, ex chip shop oil filtered and cleaned.
The main difference between V.O. and Biodiesel is that a component part of V.O. is Glycerin. It is this that causes the oil to become "sticky" when cold and generally causes the problems, W.V.O. is worse in this respect.
It is this that the transesterification process removes in order to make Biodiesel. This is why I believe that using the correct terminology is important as many of the so called problems caused by Biodiesel are actualy caused by using Vegtable Oil.
Having said that however many diesel engines will run quite happily on V.O. providing they are at opporating temperature and the oil is heated to around 80'c.
For anyone who has got this far without being bored silly here are a couple of sites you may find of interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel
http://www.dieselveg.com/
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...rofRapeOil.pdf
Here are what I believe to be the generally accepted usages.
Biofuel:- A generic term that includes all non mineral derived fuels.
Biodiesel:- A specific type of Biofuel refered to as a F.A.M.E. Fatty Acid Methyl Ester. see here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_acid_methyl_ester
Although usualy derived from vegtable oil can actualy also be made from animal fats and even algie, by using a process known as transesterification. Pump diesel now contains between 2 & 5% biodiesel as the need to reduce sulpher content, the lubricant in mineral diesel, means that an alternative lubricant was required, a function Biodiesel performs very well.
This I believe is the most missused term, often used when refering to Biofuels or Vegtable oils.
Vegtable oil:- This can be split into 2 catagories S.V.O. Straight Vegtable oil, the stuff you buy from Tesco Asda etc. and W.V.O. Waste Vegtable Oil, ex chip shop oil filtered and cleaned.
The main difference between V.O. and Biodiesel is that a component part of V.O. is Glycerin. It is this that causes the oil to become "sticky" when cold and generally causes the problems, W.V.O. is worse in this respect.
It is this that the transesterification process removes in order to make Biodiesel. This is why I believe that using the correct terminology is important as many of the so called problems caused by Biodiesel are actualy caused by using Vegtable Oil.
Having said that however many diesel engines will run quite happily on V.O. providing they are at opporating temperature and the oil is heated to around 80'c.
For anyone who has got this far without being bored silly here are a couple of sites you may find of interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel
http://www.dieselveg.com/
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...rofRapeOil.pdf
sundown
Guest
hi geoff,
before I read your post I was a little confused about alternative fuels
now i am totally confused
no offence but im afraid, your terminology is away above my head
like the proffesor says to his students "talk in laymens terms"
words like "transesterification" really blow my mental fuses
I would love to understand your explanations
but I'm even more confused after ive read them
dont get me wrong
the fault is not with you
but more with my inability to understand
"short sentances geoff"
before I read your post I was a little confused about alternative fuels
now i am totally confused
no offence but im afraid, your terminology is away above my head
like the proffesor says to his students "talk in laymens terms"
words like "transesterification" really blow my mental fuses
I would love to understand your explanations
but I'm even more confused after ive read them
dont get me wrong
the fault is not with you
but more with my inability to understand
"short sentances geoff"
sagart
Guest
Tayside? North of the Border?
Try the Highlands and Islands for high pricing and up here its only the multi-nationals who provide decent coverage and my "independent" still gets his tanks filled by Bp.
Try the Highlands and Islands for high pricing and up here its only the multi-nationals who provide decent coverage and my "independent" still gets his tanks filled by Bp.
tresrikay
Guest
I think we have to careful about this advice as the modern common rail engines can be damaged by fuel mixes and you would certainly invalidate any warranties should any damage be done, these new engines cost a fortune to repair. Also............ and I think I may Be expelled from the site for this. Apart from the arab cartels pushing up the price of fuel and the enormous profits made by the oil Barron's B.P. Shell, Esso etc. Most people blame the Tax element. Now.....................the reasons for this are to dissuade unnecessary journeys and to combat climate change. This is a fact like it or lump it, there is not a snowballs chance in hell of that changing. All governments are committed even Dubya.Plus things will only get worse i.e more expensive as the years move forward, remember we are only minding this planet for our children and grandchildren and it is up to us to hand it on with a reasonable amount of livability left. Now I believe our hobby/passion is one of the greenest there is involving any kind of vehicle. I personally will not fly again unless it is absolutely a life or death situation. My holidays will be taken in the van or in a cottage or similar. I know we are all individuals and I would not preach to anyone BUT there are so many little things we can do whilst off in our vans that can help bring our footprint down. 55/60 on the motorway increases your mileage by up to 20% driving smoothly in towns keeping revs light and avoiding erratic stop start driving all helps, using public transport once at your chosen spot, taking your bikes etc all help and if you do a bit more of that whilst at home your fuel bills begin to plummet. I am always looking for the cheapest place to fill up as well as anyone but i wont drive miles to do it, if I am passing and I see cheaper derv then I top up I am also registered with www.petrolprices.com who update by e-mail. Hope I haven't upset anyone but I stand by my beliefs always.........hope I am still here tomorrow. Regards, Rick.
Don
Guest
Sorry Bud, But you are missing the point.
BP/ESSO sell bulk to the Indipendant garage at a much reduced price, much less than BP/ESSO sell on there forecoart. (Keeping up with me ?).
If Said Independant garage is selling his stock at a profit and BP/ESSO forecoarts are empty, then surely BP/ESSO are losing the EXTRA profit that they would be making from US the punter. Surely the cost to the independant is less than the cost to "Joe Bloggs"..
Am I missing something out or what.
Don
Yogihughes
Guest
Don, I may be wrong here but what I think Sagart is getting at is the fact that there are very few Independents in the Highlands and he has no choice but to go to BP or Esso. A drive to an Independent would probably cost him a LOT more in the "long run".
I had my FIRST tour around Skye last October and I found out that there wasn't a lot of choice.
I had my FIRST tour around Skye last October and I found out that there wasn't a lot of choice.
sundown
Guest
hi, I think that sagart would agree, that the further north you go,
the higher the price, be it shell, esso, or independant
the first time I paid over £1 per litre was around Kinlochewe
and that was from an independant
tesco on the other hand (way down south sagart ) in tayside
was around 95p at the time.
the higher the price, be it shell, esso, or independant
the first time I paid over £1 per litre was around Kinlochewe
and that was from an independant
tesco on the other hand (way down south sagart
) in taysidewas around 95p at the time.
Geoff.W
Guest
I think there may be some confusion here about independants.
Just because a filling station has a sign outside with "ESSO BP SHELL etc." doesn't mean they are owned by that company, they are independents just the same as all the others, but have contract with the supplier which included supply of pumps, signs etc. Boycotting these will not have any greater effect on Esso & BP than boycotting anywhere else.
One reason this idea will not work is that there are so few "owned" stations that even if these closed it would have minimal overall effect on the oil companies in question.
Just because a filling station has a sign outside with "ESSO BP SHELL etc." doesn't mean they are owned by that company, they are independents just the same as all the others, but have contract with the supplier which included supply of pumps, signs etc. Boycotting these will not have any greater effect on Esso & BP than boycotting anywhere else.
One reason this idea will not work is that there are so few "owned" stations that even if these closed it would have minimal overall effect on the oil companies in question.
teachertrish
Guest
fuel mix
we have used our mix for four years now,first it was in a td escort then we had two 300tdi discos and for the last 18months our 56 plate transit and 02plate TD5 disco all have run on the mix,I would say the discos ran better on the mix,I would say that we only run the fuel when we go on long journeys coz when its used locally its embarrasing as the smell is stinking.apparently used doesnt smell as bad but thats hassel cleaning it although I can get it for free.our M/H is new and its on the fuel too.
ps. I havent seen a customs and exise van for years.
we have used our mix for four years now,first it was in a td escort then we had two 300tdi discos and for the last 18months our 56 plate transit and 02plate TD5 disco all have run on the mix,I would say the discos ran better on the mix,I would say that we only run the fuel when we go on long journeys coz when its used locally its embarrasing as the smell is stinking.apparently used doesnt smell as bad but thats hassel cleaning it although I can get it for free.our M/H is new and its on the fuel too.
ps. I havent seen a customs and exise van for years.
Geoff.W
Guest
Hi Nick.
Sorry you feel confused but I think the problem is that you are looking for complication and confusion where non exists and thereby miss the simplicity of it all.
It's the terms "Bio" & Vegetable that I believe cause the confusion, so lets remove them.
Biofuel = Fuel. Usual a liquid that's used to power an engine
+ Bio. Made from plants
Therefore Biofuel = Liquid used to power an engine made from plants.
Likewise Biodiesel = Diesel. A specific type of fuel used to power diesel engines. When described like this everyone seems to understand what it is, and that it is different to Petrol, Av gas or other fuels.
Add Bio = specific type of fuel to power diesel engines made from plants.
For Vegetable oil (V.O.) delete vegetable and add Crude.
Crude oil. The raw product that Diesel and other fuels can be made from.
Therefore Vegtable oil. The raw product Biodiesel can be made from.
Diesel is made from Crude oil in a Refinery by a process called Defraction.
Biodiesel is made from vegetable oil in a garden shed, if required, by a process called Transesterification.
I imagine that when talking about (mineral) Diesel you have no problem understanding what I mean, even though you don't understand the technical process, as you can see moving from mineral to Bio changes nothing exept some of the terms used.
It is not nessessery to understand the process just accept that the name given to it is "Transesterification", in the same way we accept that to change a soggy lump of dough into a loaf of bread is called "Baking".
The real point of the post was to point out that whilst people do not have a problem understanding what Diesel is and would not refer to Petrol, Kerosene or even Crude oil as diesel.
When Bio is put in front of it people somehow jump to the conclusion that it can refer to other things as well e.g. Vegetable oils, Diesel/veg. oil mixes or enything else which is not straight mineral Diesel. It is this misuse of the term "Biodiesel" that can lead to a great deal of confusion.
The rest of the post is additional information to help create a better understanding of this subject.
I hope this clarifies the situation, but if there are any particular bits You or anyone else requires further explanation of I will do my best.
teachertrish
Guest
s again-try this one..www.jusave.com.
If anybody has purchased let me know,thanks
If anybody has purchased let me know,thanks
Don
Guest
Healthy Debate!!!!!
I agree with a lot of what you say TRESRIKAY, Untill you get to global warning, No I wont even start on my views on that. Yes I Too use www.petrolprices.com but around here it points to either ASDA or Tesco's so thats where I go. Yes I also Drive at the prescribed speeds, not that the old boxer would go much faster any way.
I do understand the problems north of the Border, My sister and Hubs lives down South In the country, the local bus service runs once a week. and they haveone garage, but he will drive to the town to do there weekly shop at the supermarket and always tops up with the cheaper fuel.
I only want people to think of ways of making our oppinions known. and encourage debate. with out falling out
I think i have succeeded in that.
I agree with a lot of what you say TRESRIKAY, Untill you get to global warning, No I wont even start on my views on that. Yes I Too use www.petrolprices.com but around here it points to either ASDA or Tesco's so thats where I go. Yes I also Drive at the prescribed speeds, not that the old boxer would go much faster any way.
I do understand the problems north of the Border, My sister and Hubs lives down South In the country, the local bus service runs once a week. and they haveone garage, but he will drive to the town to do there weekly shop at the supermarket and always tops up with the cheaper fuel.
I only want people to think of ways of making our oppinions known. and encourage debate.
with out falling outI think i have succeeded in that.
Yogihughes
Guest
Just put £50 of diesel in MH from Asda in Glasgow at 106.9p per litre.
Local garage next to me is 109.9p per litre today.
Local garage next to me is 109.9p per litre today.
Guest
Guest
Don
Guest
Was that a mortgage Mate.
Don
Don