Extend Schengen Area time to 180 days

[Colinc]

Having read a lot of pieces on-line I wish you luck on this one.

You said it would require treaty change. That is not true. It only requires willing by each country. That, I grant you may be hard, but not impossible.

I am applying for visas in Greece as soon as Covid allows. There is active talk of making it easier too In the Greek legislature.

 

[John H]

Any Schengen country, France included, can set their own visa rules and allow extended stays. That does not require a treaty change it is already permitted. They can only set rules for their own country. Some already do. Many are going to make such visa easier for Brits to apply for. So these petitions are worth while - although getting tourist and retired person monies may be a bigger motivator.

The problem is that an extended visa for any member country is a time-consuming and expensive process (which has to be completed before you leave your home country) and which is by no means guaranteed to succeed. You say there is talk of some countries making it easier but if they make it too easy then that will probably be considered simply as a way of getting round Schengen and not allowed. Those of us who would like to stay more than 90 days are not a large number - we may be important in the economy of a few campsites and local shops but on the wider scene we are economically insignificant, so don't expect great pressure from within to change the rules.

 

[REC]

The removal of freedom of movement was what many who voted for ****** wanted....just saying

 

[REC]

An interesting read

how-to-legally-stay-in-europe-for-more-than-90-days

Its an interesting read but as the author is american, possibly less applicable to Uk citizen who would have passport logged in France or at arrival airport, especially since ******. I think there may be a little animosity towards Uk which may mean it is more strictly enforced. But then US have been a third country for years so maybe it shows, the EU will be kind to us in the end? Love the pointer to work permits for those "even as old as 35Years"...I wish!

 

[Colinc]

we may be important in the economy of a few campsites and local shops but on the wider scene we are economically insignificant, so don't expect great pressure from within to change the rules.

You have to add the economic drive from the yachting and second home tribes too. In some parts that is significant.

 

[John H]

You have to add the economic drive from the yachting and second home tribes too. In some parts that is significant.

In some parts, yes - but not in the overall scheme of things

 

[Tookey]

You have to add the economic drive from the yachting and second home tribes too. In some parts that is significant.

Second homes are terrible for local economies, just look at our West Country. They want the 'go on a bender' 2 week crew and they will still get them

 

[Colinc]

Seem to be quite a few naysays here. OK - let me give you an example....

For us the key country is Greece. We spent a fair bit of time there and so have/had temporary residents permits - pretty easy before ******. However the problem is continuing those post ****** as the rules are tighter and, we thought, required at least six months in Greece and paying Greek taxes. However we've just learnt that the Greek government is interpreting the law to say you only have to be in Greece for part of the year, six months not required. To make it even easier you only have to reapply every five years. That is quite a concession and look like it will mean we can keep the Greek resident cards indefinitely. That then gives us the right to travel freely in the rest of the EU too.

So for anyone that can prove long stays in Greece prior to end of 2021 this is pretty good news.

This "interpretation" is a direct result of campaigning by Brits. I know they are also looking at a long stay visa too. The second home and yachting income is pretty important to many parts of Greece.

Don't know about other countries so much ... but I can think of a few - Spain for example.

 

[John H]

Seem to be quite a few naysays here. OK - let me give you an example....

For us the key country is Greece. We spent a fair bit of time there and so have/had temporary residents permits - pretty easy before ******. However the problem is continuing those post ****** as the rules are tighter and, we thought, required at least six months in Greece and paying Greek taxes. However we've just learnt that the Greek government is interpreting the law to say you only have to be in Greece for part of the year, six months not required. To make it even easier you only have to reapply every five years. That is quite a concession and look like it will mean we can keep the Greek resident cards indefinitely. That then gives us the right to travel freely in the rest of the EU too.

So for anyone that can prove long stays in Greece prior to end of 2021 this is pretty good news.

This "interpretation" is a direct result of campaigning by Brits. I know they are also looking at a long stay visa too. The second home and yachting income is pretty important to many parts of Greece.

Don't know about other countries so much ... but I can think of a few - Spain for example.

Good news for those with residency but the fact remains that, as a proportion of total tourist income, this is insignificant.

 

[Tookey]

Seem to be quite a few naysays here. OK - let me give you an example....

For us the key country is Greece. We spent a fair bit of time there and so have/had temporary residents permits - pretty easy before ******. However the problem is continuing those post ****** as the rules are tighter and, we thought, required at least six months in Greece and paying Greek taxes. However we've just learnt that the Greek government is interpreting the law to say you only have to be in Greece for part of the year, six months not required. To make it even easier you only have to reapply every five years. That is quite a concession and look like it will mean we can keep the Greek resident cards indefinitely. That then gives us the right to travel freely in the rest of the EU too.

So for anyone that can prove long stays in Greece prior to end of 2021 this is pretty good news.

This "interpretation" is a direct result of campaigning by Brits. I know they are also looking at a long stay visa too. The second home and yachting income is pretty important to many parts of Greece.

Don't know about other countries so much ... but I can think of a few - Spain for example.

This is interesting and would make a difference to European travel if other countries follow suit as it basically says that EU countries might look for loopholes in the system

Can you provide a link to a reliable source that this is a solid proposal?

 

[Pudsey Bear]

Did.

 

[Tookey]

Did.

Been back through thread and missed it again, which post? Only reliable EU travel sources I can find that is solid is we have 90 days, nothing about individual countries petitioning Brussels to allow extended visits. One of the reasons we chose to leave is Brussels rules the roost and if Brussels says its 90 days then that won't change (granted this is only my opinion). Not dismissing Colin's post about citizenship that he might be eligible for, only the other 99% of us

 

[Tookey]

........and I really hope I am wrong

 

[REC]

Seem to be quite a few naysays here. OK - let me give you an example....

For us the key country is Greece. We spent a fair bit of time there and so have/had temporary residents permits - pretty easy before ******. However the problem is continuing those post ****** as the rules are tighter and, we thought, required at least six months in Greece and paying Greek taxes. However we've just learnt that the Greek government is interpreting the law to say you only have to be in Greece for part of the year, six months not required. To make it even easier you only have to reapply every five years. That is quite a concession and look like it will mean we can keep the Greek resident cards indefinitely. That then gives us the right to travel freely in the rest of the EU too.

So for anyone that can prove long stays in Greece prior to end of 2021 this is pretty good news.

This "interpretation" is a direct result of campaigning by Brits. I know they are also looking at a long stay visa too. The second home and yachting income is pretty important to many parts of Greece.

Don't know about other countries so much ... but I can think of a few - Spain for example.

Colin, not sure that residency in one EU country gives the right of freedom of movement in all the EU. In Portugal, we had to change our resident permit from one which says EU citizen to one which says Portuguese resident. We retain UK passports so do not qualify for freedom of movement unless we take full Portuguese citizenship. It is renewable every five years and we can apply for full citizenship at any time.
As stated before, it is hard to see how this be enforced and checked in other EU countries but it could be. Will certainly be clear from entry in France and exit through France where passports are logged. But unless borders are reinstated, proving that one stayed in resident country only could be tricky. However, with digital recognition of number plates it could be possible..
Have you a link which specifically states about freedom of movement comes with Greek residency rather than with Greek citizenship? It would be useful in our circumstances as may be applicable.

 

[REC]

Been back through thread and missed it again, which post? Only reliable EU travel sources I can find that is solid is we have 90 days, nothing about individual countries petitioning Brussels to allow extended visits. One of the reasons we chose to leave is Brussels rules the roost and if Brussels says its 90 days then that won't change (granted this is only my opinion). Not dismissing Colin's post about citizenship that he might be eligible for, only the other 99% of us

Personally, I feel it is only going to happen for those who take citizenship and get a EU passport ( possible to have dual citizenship) but some could have an extended stay in one country and get temporary residence in that country, and then travel for the 90 days total in the rest of area.

 

[Colinc]

Attached is the PDF email from the Greek Ministry of Foreign affairs. So if you have a temporary residence you can keep it pretty well indefinitely as long as your return to Greece withing the five years. This is how they are interpreting EU law.

Having a residency card gives freedom to travel within the EU. Currently passports are not stamped on entry or exit if you have such a card.

This is quite a result. And IMHO there will be other further concessions in Greece and potentially other EU countries.

 

[Colinc]

Colin, not sure that residency in one EU country gives the right of freedom of movement in all the EU.

I think this is still to be properly established. The current practice is not to stamp passports of UK citizens with such retained rights. It remains to see how this develops. As you say there is little to stop you crossing the internal borders without being checked. Even car number-plate scanners do not record who is in the car.

Even if they do clamp down on this then unlimited time in your favorite country plus 90 days in 180 for the rest will be far better than only 90 in 180 for everywhere. If that happened then we would do long shuttles back and forth from the UK to Greece - resetting the clock at both ends.

And if you can't get residency in any EU country then I believe more will offer easy-to-get long visit visas. Here is one I just spotted for Italy....

Entry requirements and Visas for British citizens from 1 January 2021

Short Stay visas In accordance with the provisions of the EU Regulation 2019/592, starting from 1 January 2021 (the end of the transition period) the United Kingdom will be added to Annex II of the EU regulation 2018/1806. British citizens will therefore not need a Schengen short-stay visa to...

conslondra.esteri.it

 

[John H]

I think this is still to be properly established. The current practice is not to stamp passports of UK citizens with such retained rights. It remains to see how this develops. As you say there is little to stop you crossing the internal borders without being checked. Even car number-plate scanners do not record who is in the car.

Even if they do clamp down on this then unlimited time in your favorite country plus 90 days in 180 for the rest will be far better than only 90 in 180 for everywhere. If that happened then we would do long shuttles back and forth from the UK to Greece - resetting the clock at both ends.

And if you can't get residency in any EU country then I believe more will offer easy-to-get long visit visas. Here is one I just spotted for Italy....

Entry requirements and Visas for British citizens from 1 January 2021

Short Stay visas In accordance with the provisions of the EU Regulation 2019/592, starting from 1 January 2021 (the end of the transition period) the United Kingdom will be added to Annex II of the EU regulation 2018/1806. British citizens will therefore not need a Schengen short-stay visa to...

conslondra.esteri.it

I'm sorry but I don't see anything in there that makes a long stay visa easier. In fact, "tourism" is not given as a reason for granting a long stay visa at all. All EU states offer long stay visas but all are difficult to get, time consuming and expensive, with no guarantee of success. If any member state does attempt to make it easier (and I have seen no evidence that any are thinking of this) then Schengen may veto it as a way of getting round the 90 day rule. As far as I can see, the only way we will be able to spend extended winters around the Med in future is by throwing in a couple of months in Morocco, Tunisia or Egypt.

 

[Tookey]

....and Croatia but no wildcamping . 90 days in Turkey without a visa which is godsend for my plans, phew

Turkey actually encourage wildcamping

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[Colinc]

Here is a great Q&A put out by the 180 Days in Greece. It gives chapter and verse on the current situation on residence permits and visas to stay in Greece for more than 90 days. It is still improving and I have another email from the Greek Ministry promising a long stay visa. No details on that yet.

I'm sure these efforts are being repeated in other EU countries. So my only message is that to say "it isn't worth it as nothing will change" is self evidently false. These groups are achieving much ... and still more to do.

So I just ask not to just dismiss this, as that is counterproductive. There are full anti-change groups - such as one group of permanent residents in Greece that came from the UK years ago - that are campaigning to STOP others from getting these concessions. Apparently they fear it will erode their own rights.

So if you want to be able to do long tours in Europe please help. If not fine - but some others do.