English Aires

[Deleted member 967]

Exactly - Roma and others are afforded protection under the Race Relations Act (as indeed they should be) but the reply you quote makes no mention of human rights legislation which gives us ALL the same rights.

Quote from the Council website I pointed people to:


Can the Council remove Gypsies/Travellers from their land immediately?
No, the Council must:
•show that the Gypsies/Travellers are on the land without consent;
•make enquiries regarding the general health, welfare and children's education;
•ensure that the Human Rights Acts 1998 has been fully complied with;
•follow a set procedure in terms of proving ownership of land and details of the illegal encampment that will enable them to successfully obtain the necessary authority from the Courts to order the Gypsies/Travellers to leave the site.

We have no human right to ignore rules and regulations set for everyone else to obey. Unless of course those rules themselves are unlawful.

 

[Byronic]

And so you should expect to pay for a service, but a lot of people are expecting it to be free because they are bringing custom in a number guises eg such as having a meal in the local restaurant etc. I see John H has beaten me in making this point.

 

[John H]

Quote from the Council website I pointed people to:


Can the Council remove Gypsies/Travellers from their land immediately?
No, the Council must:
•show that the Gypsies/Travellers are on the land without consent;
•make enquiries regarding the general health, welfare and children's education;
•ensure that the Human Rights Acts 1998 has been fully complied with;
•follow a set procedure in terms of proving ownership of land and details of the illegal encampment that will enable them to successfully obtain the necessary authority from the Courts to order the Gypsies/Travellers to leave the site.

And if you had asked the question "Can the Council remove people with ginger hair....?" You would have got the same response. If you are human you have the same rights under human rights legislation as any other human - the clue is in the word "human".

 

[Tbear]

I'm accused of being a bit of a slug sometimes.
Doesn't really matter the social or racial standing of an overstayer does it? He/she gets treated just the same surely, and told to go by whomever has the authority and to take their rubbish away. The point I'm making is that the accommodation pressures are such in this country that some people will be tempted to stay, the £200,000 RV. included. I'm not sure Local Authorities or the Police want the potential hassle.
If you're going to have pay to use an Aire then you might as well stay in a CL. Although you're supposed to be a member of the CC or the CandCC this is often overlooked and if the charge to stay on Motorway Services overnight are anything to go by then the CL might well be cheaper.

Not many CL sites close to city centres or often don't have a good bus service. Many cities have a car park which could support an Aire.

 

[vwalan]

think we got a bit crossed threaded earlier. i understand. i also realise you were answering a previous post. it just all came out wrong. i camp with loads of hippies and gypsey,s and am proud to have many as friends . i also know most dont make a mess its again only a small few . i have seen mess left by modern m,homes so they arent all clean minded . there is good and bad in all walks of life. but i do know if its for motor homes hippies can use them if in a motor home. yet a person in a van not a motor home should be asked to move.

 

[Deleted member 967]

But in France (and other adjacent countries) there are MANY aires provided for free (sometimes even with free electricity). It seems that our European cousins have realised something that we (as a country) haven't - that is, if a car park is given over to motorhomes at night (when nobody else would be using it) then at least half the people who stop will buy something in the local area, thus boosting the local economy for nil or very little cost.

Some Aires do not charge to park but you still pay to get water. Others you pay for entry and get water included. I have used Aires where you do not pay and nothing but parking is provided, but the ones that do charge are better maintained. I have not yet found one where there is an unlimited supply of free electricity, but I do understand they exist. For how long if they are abused I wonder?

 

[Deleted member 967]

We are losing the original thread here.

How can we assist Tbear in his fight to get an Aire?

 

[John H]

Some Aires do not charge to park but you still pay to get water. Others you pay for entry and get water included. I have used Aires where you do not pay and nothing but parking is provided, but the ones that do charge are better maintained. I have not yet found one where there is an unlimited supply of free electricity, but I do understand they exist. For how long if they are abused I wonder?

You have clearly not fully experienced the wonder of the French aire system. Try the website CAMPINGCAR-INFOS or the book "Guide officiel Aires de Campingcar" - MOST aires provide free parking, free fresh water and free waste disposal. Some also provide free electricity and I have come across a few that provide free hot showers as well. Very few (and I mean very few) of those I have visited have been abused. Indeed, the FREE system is expanding in my experience - especially in countries such as Spain and Portugal. In the past month we have stayed on both Portuguese and Spanish aires that have provided free evrything, including electricity.

 

[vwalan]

i have been on an aire near biaritz and saw about 4 french vans with leccy lead going from one van to the other i asked who pays for the leccy . they then told me it was free .they winter there for months in summer move inland . of course every where can be abused . i was told just hook in if you need leccy, as it was i didnt need any . must say i look in the offical guide and only go to the free ones . if no free ones around there is lways parking in france .totally different out look to life . but in uk . we have to abide by rules etc . i think it will take many heated debates to get a good scheme going . it will almost have to be fail safe or the other people will object and refuse it. better us argue nicely amongst our selves than get the questions asked by authority . we have to have sound answers .

 

[Byronic]

Not many CL sites close to city centres or often don't have a good bus service. Many cities have a car park which could support an Aire.

You're correct in stating that.CLs tend to be where the space is. I just can't imagine many a Council meeting sympathsising much with the plight of Motorcaravanners, my guess is that they would suggest Motorcaravanners use the Town's hotels and guesthouses. At least in the Southern regions of this country they would.
It all comes down to the Authorities judging whether the plusses outweigh the minusses in providing Aires, but there can't be much harm in petitioning them except that it tends to bring the "anti brigade"out of the woodwork, and you could find yourself with a backlash.

 

[John H]

i have been on an aire near biaritz and saw about 4 french vans with leccy lead going from one van to the other i asked who pays for the leccy . they then told me it was free .they winter there for months in summer move inland . of course every where can be abused . i was told just hook in if you need leccy, as it was i didnt need any . must say i look in the offical guide and only go to the free ones . if no free ones around there is lways parking in france .totally different out look to life . but in uk . we have to abide by rules etc . i think it will take many heated debates to get a good scheme going . it will almost have to be fail safe or the other people will object and refuse it. better us argue nicely amongst our selves than get the questions asked by authority . we have to have sound answers .

I dont think its a case of having to obey the rules in the UK and not elsewhere; I think it is a difference in culture. Why is it that British supermarket managers can grasp the idea of the "loss leader" when it comes to margarine or fish fingers but not accept the same concept when it comes to providing space for motorhomes to park overnight (there is a considerable growth in supermarket aires in France at the moment)? I believe the answer is that the first knee-jerk reaction of the average Brit is "freeloader" whereas others instantly see "business opportunity". For this reason I have no belief that continental-style aires will ever take off in England. Sorry to be so negative - but I really believe that unless you change the general outlook of the Brit you will not convince him to agree to aires.

 

[vwalan]

i agree with john h . we do have to change the outlook of the british non m,homer. thats why we need to get a sound propasition to put forward . if it gets put forward half sorted then the answer is no you cant have it. the t,s have to be crossed etc. we must think of every problem ad have an answer ready . look businesslike allways gets the right result .

 

[Byronic]

On a lighter note; when travelling through France once, I got talking to a French gypsy on an out of the way Aire, he had taken the maintenance access plate of a convenient lamp post and had twisted a connection onto the bare live leads, he said many gypsies did this and had plenty of places (not necessarily Aires) where he could "hook up". The authorities tended to turn a blind eye. Could you see that happening here?

 

[vwalan]

yes . it does happen here and abroad. why do you think some of the parking around gib got altered . many just have a lead with crocodile clips on the end all ready for hooking up. have known houses round here set up to get leccy from street lights . not hard to do. not for me though i would get caught i,m sure .

 

[Byronic]

I don't know because I never camp around Gib as you would know,and I know it's done in Spain hombre. I was talking about France a completely different country. The gypsy spoke Spanish as it happens. If you read my post I was saying could you imagine the AUTHORITIES turning a blind eye in this country.

 

[vwalan]

think they do sometimes .just had the discusion with a friend here and she says lots of that going on around here . but then we are in the country . bit harder i supose in a built up area. cheers alan.
i meant in spain .not in gib .i never park in there . cant get the truck in very easily pulling the trailer .

 

[Byronic]

So your friend reckons that some Electrical Suppliers knowingly turn a blind eye to thieving of their electricity in old Blighty!! I learn something new every day.
Don't forget the Spanish reckon Gib is Spanish.
I thought your rig could get anywhere an 814 could!!

 

[Tbear]

You're correct in stating that.CLs tend to be where the space is. I just can't imagine many a Council meeting sympathsising much with the plight of Motorcaravanners, my guess is that they would suggest Motorcaravanners use the Town's hotels and guesthouses. At least in the Southern regions of this country they would.
It all comes down to the Authorities judging whether the pluses outweigh the minuses in providing Aires, but there can't be much harm in petitioning them except that it tends to bring the "anti brigade"out of the woodwork, and you could find yourself with a backlash.

Byronic

How many people work for your local council. Do you not think that some of them may have a motorhome.The chap I am dealing with has a static van which he is talking about selling and investing in a motorhome. They are not all the enemy, some may be on our side.

Richard

 

[Tbear]

i agree with john h . we do have to change the outlook of the british non m,homer. thats why we need to get a sound propasition to put forward . if it gets put forward half sorted then the answer is no you cant have it. the t,s have to be crossed etc. we must think of every problem ad have an answer ready . look businesslike allways gets the right result .

Alan
I agree which is why I am hoping that we get a quality result so the chances of it being free are nil. Water and toilets are posible, electric I doubt but you will have to pay to park. How much???

 

[Tbear]

Quote from the Council website I pointed people to:


Can the Council remove Gypsies/Travellers from their land immediately?
No, the Council must:
•show that the Gypsies/Travellers are on the land without consent;
•make enquiries regarding the general health, welfare and children's education;
•ensure that the Human Rights Acts 1998 has been fully complied with;
•follow a set procedure in terms of proving ownership of land and details of the illegal encampment that will enable them to successfully obtain the necessary authority from the Courts to order the Gypsies/Travellers to leave the site.

We have no human right to ignore rules and regulations set for everyone else to obey. Unless of course those rules themselves are unlawful.

All true John but if park on a meter you either keep putting money in or have to move on. The type of traveller you are talking about don't seem to like putting the money in. No matter how reasonable the charge