English Aires

[shawbags]

caravans,vans or motorhomes.

And if they are afraid an 'aire' could be misused by gipsies; I didn't see, yet, gipsies with a motorhome . Most of them have vans and caravans. An 'aire' should be for motorhome tourists only [/QUOTE I myself have owned factory built motorhomes in the past and i have also converted vans too,i have a citroen relay that i am converting at the moment.I will not be putting windows in the van because of 1 cost and 2 security. Many people convert vans these day because of cost but this does not make them any more irisponsible than people who can afford factory built motorhomes and as i have owned both van and motorhome i see both points. I think this could cause problems as many surfers use vans who most of the time are respectable and leave the parking areas clean and tidy but on the other hand there could be undesirables who would take advantage and have no respect for others ,cheers Shawbags.

 

[AndyC]

I think it would be relatively straightforward for councils to incorporate into their TRO a clause to limit overnight stays to vehicles that have the body type recorded as Motor Caravan on the V5C registration document.

AndyC

 

[vwalan]

there is no where in the definition of a m,home that says they must have windows . a van or truck. bus can and is and always have been able to be m,homes . i have never seen any referance to windows even using definitions from years ago. i think most problems would stem from misuse by m,homes . with a time limit it could be more defined . but it still takes ages to get an ivection if m,homes or travelling folk stay longer. boughjt m,home conversion owners are very biased and can be offensive to others . they do seem to forget they only have a converted builders chassis /cab with a box chucked on . a fancy paint job and a high price.
cheers alan.

 

[shawbags]

I think it would be relatively straightforward for councils to incorporate into their TRO a clause to limit overnight stays to vehicles that have the body type recorded as Motor Caravan on the V5C registration document.

AndyC

Hi Andyc,it might be straiforward but would it be fair, in my mind no.I could go out and buy a nice motorhome tomorrow but choose not to,a converted van is more my thing having tried a coachbuilt and even though it was very pretty with all mod cons was not for me because it spent a lot of time unused.I think we all know the type of people that would not be welcome and it would be up to the council parking inspectors/wardens to move them on,cheers Shawbags.

 

[vwalan]

if your logbook doesnt say m,caravan . then you havent got a motor caravan. regardless of if its a self build or a bought conversion.
i was at st michaels mount week before last you could still park by the road and camp for free .
it takes alot of thought to word this type of thing .and there is already laws doing just that. its just they arent implemented properly. and as for tro they cant get simple ones correct . something like this could be way too difficult for a council to get right. or at least correct. come on wake up. they cant use the rules they have now correct. cheers alan.

 

[shawbags]

Aires,please allow me to park here,oh please,haha.

I drove HGV through france and the aires seemed to cater for anyone that respected them,if we said motorhomes only as in no caravans, campervans, people carriers that had reclining seats that could be made into a bed then that to me would be very selfish and very wrong,remember aires are mostly used for an overnight stay.AS FOR ONLY MOTORHOMES THAT ARE REGISTERED AS SUCH IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT SOME OF THE MOTORHOME COMUNITY IS VERY BIAST,not all of course,what next a tea room for true motorhome users only,Shawbags.

 

[AndyC]

Hi Andyc,it might be straiforward but would it be fair, in my mind no.I could go out and buy a nice motorhome tomorrow but choose not to,a converted van is more my thing having tried a coachbuilt and even though it was very pretty with all mod cons was not for me because it spent a lot of time unused.I think we all know the type of people that would not be welcome and it would be up to the council parking inspectors/wardens to move them on,cheers Shawbags.

So what regulation would you have in place which would enable the council to move the wrong type of people?

As far as I can see there has to be an agreed type of 'vehicle' that would be permitted, for an agreed period of time, for an agreed price if necessary.

Alan's right, there is no regulation that requires a vehicle registered as a motor caravan to have windows, as I understand it the basic requirements are:

seats and a table
sleeping accommodation, which may be converted from the seats
cooking facilities
storage facilities

There are various definitions of the above, but I would think any self-build that was designed for living in for more than a few days would meet those requirements and could be officially registered as a motor caravan.

AndyC

 

[Tbear]

I suspect the people who will police this will take the attitude that if it Looks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, Woddles like a duck, then it Is a Duck until proven otherwise. So as AndyC says, if it has;

Seats and a table
Sleeping accommodation, which may be converted from the seats
Cooking facilities
Storage facilities

Then its a motorhome. Having to carry Reg Docs sounds a bit big brother to me. If an Aire system ever takes of in this country I can see us having a Licence to use them, something like a tax disc, get you a parking space then pay for your services?

 

[vwalan]

its very difficult . i use aires in france etc . yes some say aires arent for caravans .but many do use them. as do hgv,s etc . all depends on the layout of the aires. even motor cycles and tents squeeze into a corner on many. also bicycles . i try to only use aires that are free . i also use truck stops ,garages ,bp very good. but we have to start somewhere . the definition of a m,home is very wide-scoped . as for aires yes if it looks like a camper .m,home we assume it is. ok. gets complicated as to can they have trailers . is a bambi ok what about a 38ft m,home etc even in france some are spoilt if a couple of very large m,homes take over . we do have to be sensible and try to get it right . the definition was set up years ago for the benefit of m,homes . now its a bad definition or is it. as a motor home it does get special priveledges . ie . mot for heavier ones . better insurance policies .we are now trying to get parking .facilities just for m,homes . we must tread carefully . i think we do have to accept that others will use the facility as in people with out being a holiday m,homer . travellers come in all sorts of disguises and vehicles . i have known french people live on aires permanently get letters delivered by the postman and work in hospitals in good jobs. it was their address nobody cared but it was in france. not uk. can we ever get to that i dont think so. we cant even agree here and we are all m,homers of some sort. cheers alan.

 

[Tbear]

its very difficult . i use aires in france etc . yes some say aires arent for caravans .but many do use them. as do hgv,s etc . all depends on the layout of the aires. even motor cycles and tents squeeze into a corner on many. also bicycles . i try to only use aires that are free . i also use truck stops ,garages ,bp very good. but we have to start somewhere . the definition of a m,home is very wide-scoped . as for aires yes if it looks like a camper .m,home we assume it is. ok. gets complicated as to can they have trailers . is a bambi ok what about a 38ft m,home etc even in france some are spoilt if a couple of very large m,homes take over . we do have to be sensible and try to get it right . the definition was set up years ago for the benefit of m,homes . now its a bad definition or is it. as a motor home it does get special priveledges . ie . mot for heavier ones . better insurance policies .we are now trying to get parking .facilities just for m,homes . we must tread carefully . i think we do have to accept that others will use the facility as in people with out being a holiday m,homer . travellers come in all sorts of disguises and vehicles . i have known french people live on aires permanently get letters delivered by the postman and work in hospitals in good jobs. it was their address nobody cared but it was in france. not uk. can we ever get to that i dont think so. we cant even agree here and we are all m,homers of some sort. cheers alan.

Alan

Stop making it sound so complicated. Pray for a bit of common sense and bug**r off to Moroc

Richard

 

[AndyC]

The type of vehicles that can use 'aires' varies across Europe, in France they are strictly only for 'camping-cars'. Caravans, vans, trucks, etc cannot use them. Ok some aires do get used by other types of vehicle but they are running the risk of being moved on and/or fined.

Personally I would like to see a UK system that is the same as the French one, but it's going to be a slow process. The first step is to presuade more councils to allow overnight stays. Pointing to examples like Guisborough, Bury St Edmunds, Canterbury, and Powys should at least demonstrate that it is possible to permit motorhomes to stay overnight without the perceived problems occurring.

AndyC

 

[vwalan]

i hope that by putting forward what might seem complications you get it right first time . imagine i was the person you wanted to convince .so far you havent and cannot address the problems brought up. since when as common sense and regulations fitted together . before any council will acept change you(anybody )must have the answers to any question that get raised . remember they dont want it. its just a cost to the area in their eyes . if and when we can cover all the questions only then is there a chance. i get through life getting what i want not failing . make proper detailed plans means you succeed .taking things for granted leads to faiure.we have to start from their side and work closer to get our goal. its just like business decisions . dont start wanting let them think they are giving .

 

[AndyC]

i hope that by putting forward what might seem complications you get it right first time . imagine i was the person you wanted to convince .so far you havent and cannot address the problems brought up. since when as common sense and regulations fitted together . before any council will acept change you(anybody )must have the answers to any question that get raised . remember they dont want it. its just a cost to the area in their eyes . if and when we can cover all the questions only then is there a chance. i get through life getting what i want not failing . make proper detailed plans means you succeed .taking things for granted leads to faiure.we have to start from their side and work closer to get our goal. its just like business decisions . dont start wanting let them think they are giving .

A lot of sense there.

What's needed is a definite proposal to put to a council, supported by arguments as to why it would benefit the local area. Let's face it, they aren't going to give us something for nothing!

Alan's right, we need to see things from the council's perspective, just saying 'Please change your regulations so that we can stay overnight' isn't going to work.

AndyC

 

[vwalan]

thanks andy. we may only get one chance . if we spoil it in the first instance they may say no to everything. also france is three times bigger area with the same amount of population. and many more m,homers in framce . more campers etc they live to camp . and camp to live.

 

[Tbear]

i hope that by putting forward what might seem complications you get it right first time . imagine i was the person you wanted to convince .so far you havent and cannot address the problems brought up. since when as common sense and regulations fitted together . before any council will acept change you(anybody )must have the answers to any question that get raised . remember they dont want it. its just a cost to the area in their eyes . if and when we can cover all the questions only then is there a chance. i get through life getting what i want not failing . make proper detailed plans means you succeed .taking things for granted leads to faiure.we have to start from their side and work closer to get our goal. its just like business decisions . dont start wanting let them think they are giving .

Sorry gents I was trying to be light hearted.

I presented a written case to the council. Which is now being discussed by the various departments all of which should have my email address so if there are any issues I will hopefully be able to sort them. If not I will be asking for your help.

 

[vwalan]

its ok .we know you re trying hard . i do hope you succeed i have many discussions with couclis and our local authority . its hard when they consistanty get m,homes staying for weeks at a time in summer . also things like the eclipse of the sun fiasco really finished it down here . i also feel sorry for some of the spanish and portugese towns in winter .hundreds of vans parke up all winmter . all saying they spend alot of money in the neighbourhood . but they dont .lets be honest most spend as little as they can. the fuel is only while in transit and buy whats cheap where its cheap . but we wont tell the council that.

 

[Tbear]

its ok .we know you re trying hard . i do hope you succeed i have many discussions with couclis and our local authority . its hard when they consistanty get m,homes staying for weeks at a time in summer . also things like the eclipse of the sun fiasco really finished it down here . i also feel sorry for some of the spanish and portugese towns in winter .hundreds of vans parke up all winmter . all saying they spend alot of money in the neighbourhood . but they dont .lets be honest most spend as little as they can. the fuel is only while in transit and buy whats cheap where its cheap . but we wont tell the council that.

Just hope they can't read then

 

[vwalan]

i could delete it if you think they read this no probs.

 

[Tbear]

i could delete it if you think they read this no probs.

.

Alan

I am a northern lad. I would much rather they see that we say what we mean and mean what we say but many thanks for the offer though.

Richard

 

[shawbags]

So what regulation would you have in place which would enable the council to move the wrong type of people?

As far as I can see there has to be an agreed type of 'vehicle' that would be permitted, for an agreed period of time, for an agreed price if necessary.

Alan's right, there is no regulation that requires a vehicle registered as a motor caravan to have windows, as I understand it the basic requirements are:

seats and a table
sleeping accommodation, which may be converted from the seats
cooking facilities
storage facilities

There are various definitions of the above, but I would think any self-build that was designed for living in for more than a few days would meet those requirements and could be officially registered as a motor caravan.

AndyC

Hi again Andyc,most people will convert a van because it can be simple and cheap to do so,you might already know that to register a van as a motorhome it has to be inspected and a one of tax payment has to be paid,a lot of people don't wan't the hassle of having to do that especialy now some insurance companys will insure vans on a motorhome basis,as i said to keep it simple.We are all looking at a way of keeping the undesirables away and as i have said before wardens/inspectors would have the powers to move them on if they do not stick to the rules. Lets not complicate matters and give the councils more reason to say no,cheers Shawbags.