CAMPRA- Campaign for Real Aires

[Millie Master]

I joined and then having read through several posts and indeed the replies from a goodly number of brainless idiots I have now left!

My reason for doing so is that I have a lot of friends in our UK's very stretched police forces and I have personal experience as a former District Councillor, so I know only too well that like it or not if open access parking areas similar to the truly excellent aires system in France were ever to be established then they would become a magnet for the low life traveller community who in the main totally ignore rules, laws and regulations.

Whereas in France where if there is any trouble the local gendarmerie will send a significant quite heavily armed group in to move the unwanteds on, in the UK, I know from personal experience it can take months and in some cases years to actually get these people moved because our hands are tied by time wasting red tape that ends up costing our communities £millions each and every year.

 

[royh28]

Joined. Don't do much FB but seems a good site to follow.

Stay safe. Roy & Pauline.

 

[Biggarmac]

I joined and then having read through several posts and indeed the replies from a goodly number of brainless idiots I have now left!

My reason for doing so is that I have a lot of friends in our UK's very stretched police forces and I have personal experience as a former District Councillor, so I know only too well that like it or not if open access parking areas similar to the truly excellent aires system in France were ever to be established then they would become a magnet for the low life traveller community who in the main totally ignore rules, laws and regulations.

Whereas in France where if there is any trouble the local gendarmerie will send a significant quite heavily armed group in to move the unwanteds on, in the UK, I know from personal experience it can take months and in some cases years to actually get these people moved because our hands are tied by time wasting red tape that ends up costing our communities £millions each and every year.

Even this site has its "brainless idiot" comments. The CAMpRa site went from 200 members to over 3000 in a week. Anyone can post, but the moderators are working at taking non relevant posts out. Give them a chance! Covid has changed what we can do in many ways. This fb group are looking at how we can improve facilities for motorhomers AND the communities we visit. There is a great deal of work going on behind the scenes.

 

[barge1914]

I joined and then having read through several posts and indeed the replies from a goodly number of brainless idiots I have now left!

My reason for doing so is that I have a lot of friends in our UK's very stretched police forces and I have personal experience as a former District Councillor, so I know only too well that like it or not if open access parking areas similar to the truly excellent aires system in France were ever to be established then they would become a magnet for the low life traveller community who in the main totally ignore rules, laws and regulations.

Whereas in France where if there is any trouble the local gendarmerie will send a significant quite heavily armed group in to move the unwanteds on, in the UK, I know from personal experience it can take months and in some cases years to actually get these people moved because our hands are tied by time wasting red tape that ends up costing our communities £millions each and every year.

I joined and then having read through several posts and indeed the replies from a goodly number of brainless idiots I have now left!

My reason for doing so is that I have a lot of friends in our UK's very stretched police forces and I have personal experience as a former District Councillor, so I know only too well that like it or not if open access parking areas similar to the truly excellent aires system in France were ever to be established then they would become a magnet for the low life traveller community who in the main totally ignore rules, laws and regulations.

Whereas in France where if there is any trouble the local gendarmerie will send a significant quite heavily armed group in to move the unwanteds on, in the UK, I know from personal experience it can take months and in some cases years to actually get these people moved because our hands are tied by time wasting red tape that ends up costing our communities £millions each and every year.

Whilst the group you joined is open to all the real work is being done behind the scenes by a leadership team. People who have demonstrated valuable experience, have useful skills and capabilities have been invited to join this team. Someone with council experience may have been useful. However if all councillors are so quick to demonstrate their prejudices and have nothing but contempt for other people and groups then its evident we will indeed have an enormous challenge on our hands.
As for travellers, can you please point out any one of the permitted council operated motorhome parking areas that have been invaded?
I should also note the travellers are not a homogenous group, there are some sub-groups with quite valid reasons for their lifestyle who are even more p****d off by the behaviour of the more feral travellers as we and the authorities are as it makes their lives even more difficult.

 

[Fisherman]

I joined and then having read through several posts and indeed the replies from a goodly number of brainless idiots I have now left!

My reason for doing so is that I have a lot of friends in our UK's very stretched police forces and I have personal experience as a former District Councillor, so I know only too well that like it or not if open access parking areas similar to the truly excellent aires system in France were ever to be established then they would become a magnet for the low life traveller community who in the main totally ignore rules, laws and regulations.

Whereas in France where if there is any trouble the local gendarmerie will send a significant quite heavily armed group in to move the unwanteds on, in the UK, I know from personal experience it can take months and in some cases years to actually get these people moved because our hands are tied by time wasting red tape that ends up costing our communities £millions each and every year.

Millie you do highlight a valid issue.
But there are already thousands of carparks open to anyone including travellers to park overnight in.
And apart from rare examples I don't see there is a great issue in the vast majority of places.
Personally speaking I am not really looking for aires to be formed for our use.
I am more interested in the removal of barriers and idiotic signage that already exists.
If these barriers and signage were removed there probably would be no need for aires everywhere.

All I am looking for is to be treated the same as other road users.
Not treated like we are a problem that has to be dealt with.
But if aires are made available then that would be great.
But I don't see that happening anytime soon, particularly in the current financial situation.

 

[maureenandtom]

I joined and then having read through several posts and indeed the replies from a goodly number of brainless idiots I have now left!

My reason for doing so is that I have a lot of friends in our UK's very stretched police forces and I have personal experience as a former District Councillor, so I know only too well that like it or not if open access parking areas similar to the truly excellent aires system in France were ever to be established then they would become a magnet for the low life traveller community who in the main totally ignore rules, laws and regulations.

Whereas in France where if there is any trouble the local gendarmerie will send a significant quite heavily armed group in to move the unwanteds on, in the UK, I know from personal experience it can take months and in some cases years to actually get these people moved because our hands are tied by time wasting red tape that ends up costing our communities £millions each and every year.

Forgive me. I think you are being a little unfair but not unrepresentative. If you find some to be brainless idiots – and you are not – then your input would be invaluable as a balanced viewpoint.

To my knowledge there has been only one possible place where somewhat of a low-life Traveller invasion may have taken place – Blackpool – but that may have been due to Travellers having been illegally moved on during this Covid emergency. So far as I know all other aires have never been invaded. Canterbury, Hawick, Torridge, Helmsley, and others, have remained remarkably free in view of your certainty that they would become magnets..

Some have been working hard for years to retain our freedoms; your attitude is not uncommon even among motorhomers = but it was never helpful.

I'm sorry you think the laws of our land are time wasting red tape in this particular circumstance - something I've found not uncommon among those of you elected to represent us. A viewpoint similar to "the low life traveller community who in the main totally ignore rules, laws and regulations".

 

[Val54]

Millie you do highlight a valid issue.
But there are already thousands of carparks open to anyone including travellers to park overnight in.
And apart from rare examples I don't see there is a great issue in the vast majority of places.
Personally speaking I am not really looking for aires to be formed for our use.
I am more interested in the removal of barriers and idiotic signage that already exists.
If these barriers and signage were removed there probably would be no need for aires everywhere.

All I am looking for is to be treated the same as other road users.
Not treated like we are a problem that has to be dealt with.
But if aires are made available then that would be great.
But I don't see that happening anytime soon, particularly in the current financial situation.

Whatever our personal view, the "traveller" issue will not go away until there is a political will to resolve it in a comprehensive manner across the UK, leaving it for individual Councils to resolve in their own areas, has not and will not work. The reason I mention it is that if the current efforts to provide more opportunities for us are to succeed, then those Council areas where the "traveller" issue is not a problem should be first on the list. You are not going to persuade those Councils who have ongoing issues with traveller incursions to remove height barriers etc.

 

[Fisherman]

Whatever our personal view, the "traveller" issue will not go away until there is a political will to resolve it in a comprehensive manner across the UK, leaving it for individual Councils to resolve in their own areas, has not and will not work. The reason I mention it is that if the current efforts to provide more opportunities for us are to succeed, then those Council areas where the "traveller" issue is not a problem should be first on the list. You are not going to persuade those Councils who have ongoing issues with traveller incursions to remove height barriers etc.

Also it’s paramount that we are not grouped in with the travelling community.
Our needs are minimal, basically somewhere to park. One of the aims of this growing movement on FB, must must look towards education, not only of the public, but councillors also. But like you I believe National policies from each of the uk governments are essential. Our rights need to be guaranteed within the law, in order to prevent many of the abuses handed out to us in recent years.

 

[barge1914]

Millie you do highlight a valid issue.
But there are already thousands of carparks open to anyone including travellers to park overnight in.
And apart from rare examples I don't see there is a great issue in the vast majority of places.
Personally speaking I am not really looking for aires to be formed for our use.
I am more interested in the removal of barriers and idiotic signage that already exists.
If these barriers and signage were removed there probably would be no need for aires everywhere.

All I am looking for is to be treated the same as other road users.
Not treated like we are a problem that has to be dealt with.
But if aires are made available then that would be great.
But I don't see that happening anytime soon, particularly in the current financial situation.

What is being sought is a much broader range of facilities, than perhaps you interpret. Aires for the sake of a catch all term embraces unserviced car parks and open spaces where motorhomes are tolerated, such as you and I use most frequently (ie. ordinary car parks without barriers or bans), through a range of serviced and unserviced options appropriate to different locations and providers, budgets, and frequency of use, right up to mini-campsites for motorhomes. You see all these variations throughout Europe. We are not wearing blinkers.

 

[TeamRienza]

The North Down and Ards council area who I lobbied, (some of you will remember completing their survey some time back) were (are) hoping to provide nine locations throughout their area. Six would simply be bays in existing car parks, but only three would fit the ‘french’ description of Aire. Given the size and relatively linear shape of the district service points would only be built into three car parks one at the North end, one at the south and one at the mid point, which would be more than adequate provision over a distance of maybe thirty miles. However nine stop over locations would have provide perhaps forty five spots.

Davy

 

[trevskoda]

The North Down and Ards council area who I lobbied, (some of you will remember completing their survey some time back) were (are) hoping to provide nine locations throughout their area. Six would simply be bays in existing car parks, but only three would fit the ‘french’ description of Aire. Given the size and relatively linear shape of the district service points would only be built into three car parks one at the North end, one at the south and one at the mid point, which would be more than adequate provision over a distance of maybe thirty miles. However nine stop over locations would have provide perhaps forty five spots.

Davy

Car park behind exploris would be good apart from some bits on a slope.

 

[barge1914]

The North Down and Ards council area who I lobbied, (some of you will remember completing their survey some time back) were (are) hoping to provide nine locations throughout their area. Six would simply be bays in existing car parks, but only three would fit the ‘french’ description of Aire. Given the size and relatively linear shape of the district service points would only be built into three car parks one at the North end, one at the south and one at the mid point, which would be more than adequate provision over a distance of maybe thirty miles. However nine stop over locations would have provide perhaps forty five spots.

Davy

Any idea on current status? Is it still waiting council approval, at risk of being derailed? or approved pending funding or implementation!

 

[TeamRienza]

Trev. The exploris was one of the potential sites and would have had services.

Davy

 

[TeamRienza]

Barge1914,

The council were taken to court by a local caravan site owner on the grounds that councils should not be providing free facilities! The action stalled as the court wanted to wait for the ongoing update of the caravan act, which really bears no relevance since it is primarily legislation for static sites. The collapse of the Stormont assembly put everything on hold, and of course just when they got back together the pandemic struck. I had intended to start lobbying again but all on hold. The last indications of the council were that they were keen and could see the benefit.
I also took action in my home town after the council erected barriers on the seafront carparks. A rearguard action but we now have 4 bays in another pretty central car park (but shared with cars, bit like France) and prior to the lockdown we were looking at another location (now on hold).
I shall reply to your pm shortly.

Davy

 

[barge1914]

Barge1914,

The council were taken to court by a local caravan site owner on the grounds that councils should not be providing free facilities! The action stalled as the court wanted to wait for the ongoing update of the caravan act, which really bears no relevance since it is primarily legislation for static sites. The collapse of the Stormont assembly put everything on hold, and of course just when they got back together the pandemic struck. I had intended to start lobbying again but all on hold. The last indications of the council were that they were keen and could see the benefit.
I also took action in my home town after the council erected barriers on the seafront carparks. A rearguard action but we now have 4 bays in another pretty central car park (but shared with cars, bit like France) and prior to the lockdown we were looking at another location (now on hold).
I shall reply to your pm shortly.

Davy

Thank you!

 

[Fisherman]

Barge1914,

The council were taken to court by a local caravan site owner on the grounds that councils should not be providing free facilities! The action stalled as the court wanted to wait for the ongoing update of the caravan act, which really bears no relevance since it is primarily legislation for static sites. The collapse of the Stormont assembly put everything on hold, and of course just when they got back together the pandemic struck. I had intended to start lobbying again but all on hold. The last indications of the council were that they were keen and could see the benefit.
I also took action in my home town after the council erected barriers on the seafront carparks. A rearguard action but we now have 4 bays in another pretty central car park (but shared with cars, bit like France) and prior to the lockdown we were looking at another location (now on hold).
I shall reply to your pm shortly.

Davy

Just a thought but if caravan site owners wish to prevent us from wild camping then why don’t the members of any future organisation boycott the campsites. Go to any campsite and you will see a fair number of Motorhomes. We were at Rowntree Park in York last December and Motorhomes outnumbered caravans.
We have to
Hopefully if we get organised we would blacklist such sites.
That way they may prevent facilities being made available but lose out on our business. The continent is awash with full campsites, regardless of the thousands of airs and stop overs that are available.

 

[fiona b]

Thanks to following a link someone kindly posted I've found myself a member of this. Its being lead by quite a dedicated bunch of folks who are happy to spend their time pursuing this campaign despite the cynicism of many in the motorhome community and the evident opposition or sheer disinterest of many in the local corridors of power. Nevertheless things are stirring and I learnt of a lot more authorities showing some more enlightened thinking, and a few already establishing motorhome overnight parking facilities. There will be a dire need in the wake of Covid to establish facilities for water and waste in some parts of the country, and if this does't get addressed we Wildcampers will be in the front line of a lot of local ire and hostility trying to empty our cassettes in bogs that people are trying to keep Covid free. Then of course we need to reverse the continual erosion of places to stay, and to create more. A lot to be done! Somehow thanks to my letter to Whitby arriving and circulating as a proforma long before I got there in person I seem ,with some bemusement, to be elected to the leadership team...hopefully not a poisoned chalice! Anyway, the purpose of this post is to encourage as many people as possible to join our Facebook group, we need now to greatly increase our media presence. So PRETTY PLEASE, follow this link and subscribe...

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Hi
Would like to join this but not member of Facebook and don't wish to be. Also Facebook campaign will not be taken seriously. We need to be seen as official group. I would be happy to pay more for.my wild camping membership if it could fund someone to be a full time spokesperson for us. As the person said on the recent post on Glencoe community council, we need to fight back.

 

[Biggarmac]

Hi
Would like to join this but not member of Facebook and don't wish to be. Also Facebook campaign will not be taken seriously. We need to be seen as official group. I would be happy to pay more for.my wild camping membership if it could fund someone to be a full time spokesperson for us. As the person said on the recent post on Glencoe community council, we need to fight back.

There is a website being built. It is not just a facebook campaign. An amazing amout of work is going on behind the scenes. This only took off in the last couple of weeks.

 

[Asterix]

Here's a letter to the editor that just popped up in my news feed,don't know if it's a WC member...

Letters: Communities should look at ways of cashing in on campervans, not banning them

WITH easing of lockdown this coming weekend it’s likely that Scotland will see an influx of tourists, a fact that will be greatly welcomed by our…

www.heraldscotland.com

 

[Biggarmac]

Here's a letter to the editor that just popped up in my news feed,don't know if it's a WC member...

Letters: Communities should look at ways of cashing in on campervans, not banning them

WITH easing of lockdown this coming weekend it’s likely that Scotland will see an influx of tourists, a fact that will be greatly welcomed by our…

www.heraldscotland.com

Cameron McNeish is a well known figure in the Scottish outdoor and adventure community. His blogs are worth watching.