Bristol clean air diesel ban plan approved

[colinm]

Read through the posts on here, including the personal ones.
bottom line.

No one on here should or would put their hobby ahead of the safety of those who may suffer from diesel emissions.
I bought my second Motorhome in June this year.
In terms of engine type realistically I had one choice diesel, nothing else is available. I handed over thousands of pounds in vat to our government.
If I had waited to September and bought an even cleaner euro 6D engine for doing so I would have incurred a bill of £2135 for my first years road tax followed by 5 years at £460. My diesel dishes out 80ppm the new 6D engine just over half at 50ppm. I only pay £265 a year. None of this makes any sense.
Yes I had another choice don’t buy a Motorhome, possibly that’s what many may decide to do now.

This test in Promobil is a real eye opener.

Welche Basisfahrzeuge stoßen wie viel NOx aus?: Wohnmobil-Diesel im Real-Abgas-Test

Dieseln, und damit den meisten Wohnmobilen, drohen wegen hoher NOx-Emissionen Fahrverbote. promobil testet vier populäre Reisemobil-Basis-Fahrzeuge im Straßenbetrieb. Wie sauber sind VW Crafter, Mercedes Sprinter, Fiat Ducato und Citroën Jumper?

www.promobil.de

 

[Fisherman]

This test in Promobil is a real eye opener.

Welche Basisfahrzeuge stoßen wie viel NOx aus?: Wohnmobil-Diesel im Real-Abgas-Test

Dieseln, und damit den meisten Wohnmobilen, drohen wegen hoher NOx-Emissionen Fahrverbote. promobil testet vier populäre Reisemobil-Basis-Fahrzeuge im Straßenbetrieb. Wie sauber sind VW Crafter, Mercedes Sprinter, Fiat Ducato und Citroën Jumper?

www.promobil.de

I anticipated such a reply hence my use of the word realistically.
I repeat what I said, REALISTICALLY there is only one type of engine available for a Motorhome. I did read of an electric model costing £150,000 for a basic Motorhome. But that is not a realistic option for myself, or the vast majority of us.

 

[colinm]

I anticipated such a reply hence my use of the word realistically.
I repeat what I said, REALISTICALLY there is only one type of engine available for a Motorhome. I did read of an electric model costing £150,000 for a basic Motorhome. But that is not a realistic option for myself, or the vast majority of us.

I fully understand your position with buying a new van. We're in the same position and IMO there is no practical alternative to a diesel for MH use in 3.5t+ .
My post was to highlight that manufacturers such as Fiat have been building engines which are horrendously polluting that meet the emissions specs, this is why Bristol are banning all private diesels. They seem to also be taking the pragmatic approach re trucks, buses, and taxi's, as banning these could have been more probilmatic.

 

[Nabsim]

It needs a proper infrastructure for every city. If that existed and people could get where they want to go in clean, cheap transport why would they need to let ANY personal vehicle in a city centre?

I know if we lived in a city I would not bother with a car, it’s different for people in smaller towns, villages and the sticks but in city’s you have such opportunity to make a difference. I don’t mean ‘you’ the individual but transport companies, councils, governments. It just needs a proper rethink

 

[st3v3]

why would they need to let ANY personal vehicle in a city centre?

I often work in central Bristol, using my private car to transport tools. It's insured for business use, but what's the betting I'll still be banned....

 

[trevskoda]

Currently have a Hybrid diesel Volvo XC60 for a week, all clever stuff, starts and car moves off on electric, then engine kicks in when management system requires it. Then if crawling along in say city traffic, reverts back to electric.

I doubt we will ever see a MH hybrid, as batteries and electronics required would probably see MH falling into HGV class, due to weight.

No point in hybrid as still got ex pipes filters plugs etc to service,either one or the other.

 

[colinm]

I often work in central Bristol, using my private car to transport tools. It's insured for business use, but what's the betting I'll still be banned....

When a LEZ was first introduced I would happily drive through central London to the ScM in my old petrol engined T25.

 

[st3v3]

When a LEZ was first introduced I would happily drive through central London to the ScM in my old petrol engined T25.

Cool. SCM?

 

[colinm]

Cool. SCM?

Science Museum, used to do a lot of work on hanging aircraft at museums.

 

[trevskoda]

Some of us should be in museums or so my kids keep telling me.

 

[harrow]

Interesting article of the domino effect, some interesting comments at end of article.

Bristol First to Ban Diesel Cars, but Where Could Be Next?

You can also argue the fact that the current range of diesel engines are the cleanest we’ve ever seen. Euro 6 standards have even helped cut down on particulate

www.regit.cars

Yes airports as well London heathrow airport is going to have a total of 400 miles of roads that are going to be part of a ULEZ in 2022
https://mediacentre.heathrow.com/pressrelease/details/81/Corporate-operational-24/11116

 

[Martin P]

I like diesel engines and would not be in the slightest bit surprised if the problems with them are being over exaggerated

 

[trevskoda]

I like diesel engines and would not be in the slightest bit surprised if the problems with them are being over exaggerated

No worse than all the homes burning heating oil,and the jets leaving heathrow.

 

[Fisherman]

I like diesel engines and would not be in the slightest bit surprised if the problems with them are being over exaggerated

Martin what we all have to accept is levels of nitrogen oxide, and harmful particulate matter are far to high in some of our city centres. And these chemicals can only come from one source, our diesels.
Diesels produce 25-30% less CO2 than petrol, and for this reason we were encouraged to by them up until a few years ago.
But unfortunately the manufacturers deliberately kept the true figures from us regarding levels of pollution, and this is what started were we are today.

But what I don’t understand is why it took so long for these figures to come to the fore, possibly if they had years ago we would all be driving cleaner diesels today. Up until euro 4 spec the emphasis was on reducing CO2 and not NO2 and particulate matter. But none the less these figures did fall with each new engine design. Euro 5 was the first time that a reduction in NO2 and particulate matter became paramount rather than CO2 reduction. Euro 5 engines reduced NO2 and particulate from 300ppm to 150ppm. Euro 6 reduced this to 80ppm, and the latest 6d to 50ppm. Mercedes reckon that within 3 years they could get this down to just 10ppm, but with slight loss of power.

What annoys me about what Bristol are doing is they have applied a carte Blanche approach, which is damaging to their economy, and totally wrong. If you go back to the 1970s diesels were putting out as much as 650ppm, 13 times more than current 6d engines.

 

[RV2MAX]

The annoying thing is that CO2 output is an irrelevance , as will be shown in future !

 

[colinm]

What annoys me about what Bristol are doing is they have applied a carte Blanche approach, which is damaging to their economy, and totally wrong. If you go back to the 1970s diesels were putting out as much as 650ppm, 13 times more than current 6d engines.

What do a 2015 Fiat 500X 1.6 euro6 and a 2005 Ford Galaxy 1.9 euro3 have in common? I can tell you, in the real world they both put out over 1000g/km NOx, that's why Bristol are banning all private diesels, companies such as Fiat took the piss, interestingly VW cars (and vans) are much better.

 

[Fisherman]

What do a 2015 Fiat 500X 1.6 euro6 and a 2005 Ford Galaxy 1.9 euro3 have in common? I can tell you, in the real world they both put out over 1000g/km NOx, that's why Bristol are banning all private diesels, companies such as Fiat took the piss, interestingly VW cars (and vans) are much better.

So Fiat took the piss, but VW who are being penalised for billions are better.
Unlike you I don’t have precise figures to hand to make such a comment.
But it begs the question, if Fiat are the prime culprits here (as you state) why are BMW, Daimler, and WW being named by the EU as principle culprits.

I suspect that all manufacturers were at it in the past, but things have changed.
I see no point in comparing who was worse, I would be shocked if any manufacturer was blameless.

Testing since 2014 has been completely revamped and independently checked by the EU and other governments worldwide. The fact is diesels are much cleaner than they were in 2005, no one disputes that fact. I would support a ban of older diesels, as is done elsewhere, but not the carte Blanche approach taken by Bristol, which fails to take into account advances made in recent years.

 

[Martin P]

Frankly I think that if you live in a city you have to accept a certain level of pollution. Its just life. Probably far less hazardous than the dust in my workshop

 

[colinm]

So Fiat took the piss, but VW who are being penalised for billions are better.
Unlike you I don’t have precise figures to hand to make such a comment.
But it begs the question, if Fiat are the prime culprits here (as you state) why are BMW, Daimler, and WW being named by the EU as principle culprits.

VW broke the law, Fiat followed the letter of the law. It has been a 'eye opener' to most people, VW made good engines which needed a cheat to pass test, Fiat made engines which passed the test but where pumping out crap when on the road. Read that link from Promobil I posted on the differance between MB/VW and Fiat/Pug. Needing small 4x4's to get round the fields, my vehicle of choice for many years have been Suzuki, they where using Fiat diesels, since dieselgate they have told Fiat to stuff there diesels and are now only selling petrol cars.

 

[trevskoda]

Frankly I think that if you live in a city you have to accept a certain level of pollution. Its just life. Probably far less hazardous than the dust in my workshop

Well you wont get farmers lung in the city.