Bristol clean air diesel ban plan approved

[GeoffL]

That completely ignores the fact the electric cars use regenerative braking, until the bloke updated it further down the page where he backtracks somewhat....

Not really, here's the bit I suspect you refer to:

Timmers and Achten acknowledge the benefits of regenerative brakes on electric vehicles and made a conservative estimate of zero brake-wear emissions for electric vehicles. Hence, their claim that electric vehicle particulate matter emissions are comparable to those of conventional vehicles was based upon the greater tyre and road surface wear, and resuspension associated with a greater vehicle weight.

Far from backtracking, he stated that the estimate of pollution from EVs conservatively included zero emissions from brake-wear and that the additional particulate pollution arose as a consequence of the heavier mass of EVs -- although he did say that some EVs are lighter (think tiny, low range, city cars) than conventional vehicles and so the issue is somewhat complex. That said, no EV relies solely on regenerative braking, particularly in stop-start traffic, as the final deceleration to halt must come from friction braking.
FWIW, the whole point is that authorities at least imply that EVs are the panacea to all pollution ills, which the piece I cited shows just isn't true.

 

[Nabsim]

It’s fine to ban vehicles from areas with high pollution but they should be made to install the infrastructure to compensate before any ban. Park and ride with enough shuttle busses to get workers and shoppers in and out efficiently would be a good start. Struggling high street will probably collapse and workers will struggle no doubt.

 

[colinm]

Although that's the popular belief, it's way short of the whole truth. Although the latest fad seems to be to demonise diesels, electric cars are just as bad. Particle pollution from electric cars could be worse than that from modern diesels.

The ban doesn't apply to (newer) petrol cars which are lighter than their equivalent diesel alternatives, so a double win.

 

[Fisherman]

Indeed and petrol will go the same way .
All the (mostly) old gits on here can drone on about this forever but its happening .
Yes governments and councils won't necessarily get the mechanics right but that is , surely , besides the point ?
It will affect me (and most on here) but surely I (we) have to accept it is necessary ?
Or , quite possibly , we are selfish old baskets who don't actually care about future generations . Think there is a lot of recent evidence proving this to be the case

Not that long ago us old gits were being told by the same politicians to buy diesel because they are better for the environment. Dash for diesel we were all told. Modern diesel cars are much cleaner than older models. Why not do what they do in Europe and allow newer vehicles and ban older vehicles and buses.

 

[ricc]

has anybody any figures on how much pollution in cities is caused by the residents running their gas heating 24/7 whether theyre actually in the house or not.

 

[yorkslass]

Indeed and petrol will go the same way .
All the (mostly) old gits on here can drone on about this forever but its happening .
Yes governments and councils won't necessarily get the mechanics right but that is , surely , besides the point ?
It will affect me (and most on here) but surely I (we) have to accept it is necessary ?
Or , quite possibly , we are selfish old baskets who don't actually care about future generations . Think there is a lot of recent evidence proving this to be the case

I think getting the mechanics right is very much the point, and yes, I do care about the environment, I have a vested interest in my grandchildren.

An example
The care budget has been greatly reduced so more elderly are ending up in hospital leaving less beds for those who are ill. Every action has a reaction so plans need putting in place for alternative transport before they start banning anything.

 

[GeoffL]

has anybody any figures on how much pollution in cities is caused by the residents running their gas heating 24/7 whether theyre actually in the house or not.

Well the WHO at least has published figures for Domestic, traffic, industry etc..

The recently published study shows, based on the available information, that traffic (25%), combustion and agriculture (22%), domestic fuel burning (20%), natural dust and salt (18%), and industrial activities (15%) are the main sources of particulate matter contributing to cities’ air pollution. However, there are significant differences between various regions of the world.

 

[Fisherman]

has anybody any figures on how much pollution in cities is caused by the residents running their gas heating 24/7 whether theyre actually in the house or not.

Ricc it’s particulate matter that’s the problem not CO2.
Burning gas generates large quantities of CO2, it’s reckoned that our gas heating systems produce 14% of our CO2 footprint, the same as all our transport systems put together.

 

[st3v3]

Far from backtracking,

Emissions from wear of brakes ............….likely to be higher in supposedly clean vehicles, experts warn

acknowledge the benefits of regenerative brakes on electric vehicles and made a conservative estimate of zero brake-wear emissions for electric vehicles

But, whatever lol.

 

[alcam]

I think getting the mechanics right is very much the point, and yes, I do care about the environment, I have a vested interest in my grandchildren.

An example
The care budget has been greatly reduced so more elderly are ending up in hospital leaving less beds for those who are ill. Every action has a reaction so plans need putting in place for alternative transport before they start banning anything.

Don't totally disagree with any thing you say . Yes there is a fair bit of 'abandon ship , have we got any lifeboats?' going on
I'm sure you'll agree there is rather a lot of me me me on here , and other places

 

[Martin P]

Pita

 

[Okta]

Ricc it’s particulate matter that’s the problem not CO2.
Burning gas generates large quantities of CO2, it’s reckoned that our gas heating systems produce 14% of our CO2 footprint, the same as all our transport systems put together.

CO2 and particulates are issues of concern but in this case it is NO2 that has caused Bristol to miss the Government targets. NO2 is a produced by diesels and older petrol engines.

 

[harrow]

How long before this happens in other cities ?

 

[alcam]

The line would not have been up and running if it , initially , had to be electric .
A few years ago you made some spurious complaint about the borders railway When it was pointed out that the project was successful your answer was people were complaining about the fares (how unusual) .
No mention of electrification then ?

 

[maingate]

A similar plan has been aired for Newcastle/Gateshead which has been blocked. It will probably go ahead soon with less stringent affects than originally proposed. It is not really necessary for Gateshead because 95% of the volume of traffic passes straight through to and from Newcastle over the Tyne and Redheugh Bridges. Anti pollution restrictions in Newcastle will encourage people to use the Metro rail system and reduce the choke point at the bridges with its high volume of cars. The biggest problem in Gateshead Town Centre is the atrocious system of traffic lights which reduce every vehicle to a crawl. All it needs is for the timing of the lighhts to be set up properly and the vehicle movement would be vastly improved. A lot of us think the present setup was done deliberately to annoy motorists and drive them on to the Buses instead.

 

[trevskoda]

has anybody any figures on how much pollution in cities is caused by the residents running their gas heating 24/7 whether theyre actually in the house or not.

It uses less gas or oil to keep it running 24/7 on a stat,i have done the tests so i can confirm this,think of it like a car doing 55mph on m/way and returnes 40mpg,same car in town stop start will return 25mpg,a home is the same because you heat the bricks and morter which throws heat back like a storage heater keeping it all going even speed.

 

[alcam]

Not that long ago us old gits were being told by the same politicians to buy diesel because they are better for the environment. Dash for diesel we were all told. Modern diesel cars are much cleaner than older models. Why not do what they do in Europe and allow newer vehicles and ban older vehicles and buses.

Indeed we were , possibly by different politicians .
As I say the mechanics certainly have to be worked on but it is going to happen .
In general though serious changes like this basically , in my opinion , have to be forced upon people . You won't get many volunteers

 

[ricc]

It uses less gas or oil to keep it running 24/7 on a stat,i have done the tests so i can confirm this,think of it like a car doing 55mph on m/way and returnes 40mpg,same car in town stop start will return 25mpg,a home is the same because you heat the bricks and morter which throws heat back like a storage heater keeping it all going even speed.

not the case with every dwelling,a lot depends on the consruction and the occupants habits. weve got a 5 bed bungalow, all the interior walls are studwork and plasterboard, exterior walls are plasterboard on the inside then 150mm fiberglass wool , theres very little heat gets to the exterior masonry. weve oil fired central heating with thermostatic valves on most rads, a master stat on the living room wall set to 19 degrees and a timer set for heating between 7am and 8.30 am and 4pm to 10 pm with manual overide if were in during the day and want heat. normally a 1000 litre top up lasts a winter and a half. heating 24/7 to a level that allows sitting round in the nude would use far more oil
our eldest put ground source heatpump and underfloor heating in their new build, that runs 24/7 and uses the thermal mass of the floor... to be honest i dont like the heat during the night, always sleep badly when we stay overnight. to my mind the leccy bills are horrendous.

 

[Fisherman]

Indeed we were , possibly by different politicians .
As I say the mechanics certainly have to be worked on but it is going to happen .
In general though serious changes like this basically , in my opinion , have to be forced upon people . You won't get many volunteers

well possibly those who were advised wrongly should be compensated instead of being punished.
also have we all forgot that petrol emits between 30-40% more CO2 than diesel.
We should be adopting a policy of getting rid of older diesels, that would be better.

 

[GeoffL]

Your link said:
Emissions from wear of brakes ............….likely to be higher in supposedly clean vehicles, experts warn

Allow me to fill in the missing, "and tyres". Don't forget that even regenerative braking relies on friction -- the friction between the tyre and road surface -- and so even regen produces particulate emissions. Far from 'backtracking' the update clarified the piece in an attempt to prevent the misunderstanding you appear to have made IMO.