Bristol clean air diesel ban plan approved

[colinm]

Not that long ago us old gits were being told by the same politicians to buy diesel because they are better for the environment. Dash for diesel we were all told. Modern diesel cars are much cleaner than older models. Why not do what they do in Europe and allow newer vehicles and ban older vehicles and buses.

Here's why.

However for diesel vehicles, even the best manufacturer group had Euro 6 NO2 emissions of more than twice the type-approval limit, and all other manufacturer groups were at least four times the type-approval limit. Four manufacturer groups had average emissions of more than 12 times the type-approval limit.

One thing the 'VW scandal' threw up was the that in real world tests VW weren't to bad, many others (i.e. those using Fiat engines) where apaling.

 

[brakers]

Hi Everyone
I’ve read through this thread and most are sensible replies, and I do agree we have to tackle problems like this and yes some if not all will not be welcomed by the masses but we can’t keep on like this we have to take action just like we have to tackle the plastic pollution problem, but I’ve yet to see a reply of how these measures will impact on the poorest in our society.
Most if not all these ideas which are implemented impact the poorest off in our country the most.
All these people deciding on these measures are probably fairly well off compared to the poorest in their area.
I’m OK compared to a lot of people round me,
I live in a one bedroom housing association flat, I’m not rich by any ones standards but thanks to my past work and pensions I’m comfortably off but still can’t afford to change my car to an electric one or even a newer one.
I do feel sorry for people in situations not of their making where measures like these impacts so much more on their lives than people like me and perhaps most people on this forum.
Best Wishes Tony

 

[st3v3]

Allow me to fill in the missing, "and tyres". Don't forget that even regenerative braking relies on friction -- the friction between the tyre and road surface -- and so even regen produces particulate emissions. Far from 'backtracking' the update clarified the piece in an attempt to prevent the misunderstanding you appear to have made IMO.

Conventional vehicles have very similar tyre wear, the weight difference becomes negligible when you consider the spread in vehicle (both electric and conventional) sizes and weights. Couple that with differences in the effects of driving style, and there's going to be no difference.

It's a poorly written, headline grabbing, article by someone who doesn't want to see EV's grow. IMO.

 

[colinm]

Most if not all these ideas which are implemented impact the poorest off in our country the most.
All these people deciding on these measures are probably fairly well off compared to the poorest in their area.
...
I’m comfortably off but still can’t afford to change my car to an electric one or even a newer one.
I do feel sorry for people in situations not of their making where measures like these impacts so much more on their lives than people like me and perhaps most people on this forum.
Best Wishes Tony

Does that mean nothing should be done? I think not. It should also be pointed out that nobody with a old petrol car will be affected, also those with diesel have a choice of not going into the inner zone between 7am and 3pm, using public transport if applicable, or buying a petrol car in the next 18months (doesn't need to be new, any old banger will do), this will leave very few if any that will suffer any hardship, and there are proposals for help (although we've all heard that one before).

 

[brakers]

Does that mean nothing should be done? I think not.
@colinmd Did you actually read and understand my full post, I said " I do agree we have to tackle problems like this and yes some if not all will not be welcomed by the masses but we can’t keep on like this we have to take action just like we have to tackle the plastic pollution problem," I never said I don't want anything to be done and yes we have to tackle the problems but be a bit more sympathetic to those people who are in a situation where these controls will hurt the most.
Best Wishes Tony

 

[caledonia]

As usual the man on the street gets told he has to change his ways. What about all the non essential air traffic? Diesel buses puffing along with two or three people on board? Boycot the places that force stupid unplanned limitations on vehicle movement and it will cause financial problems which is more important to them than the planet.

 

[colinm]

Does that mean nothing should be done? I think not.
@colinmd Did you actually read and understand my full post, I said " I do agree we have to tackle problems like this and yes some if not all will not be welcomed by the masses but we can’t keep on like this we have to take action just like we have to tackle the plastic pollution problem," I never said I don't want anything to be done and yes we have to tackle the problems but be a bit more sympathetic to those people who are in a situation where these controls will hurt the most.
Best Wishes Tony

Yes I did read (and I think) understand your post, maybe my edited quote was misleading. My point is that few ,if any, 'poor' people will be affected, well that is apart from them (hopefully) being less likely to die due to poor air quality. We do not as yet have any details of the councils proposed help for those affected.

 

[harrow]

Hi Everyone
I’ve read through this thread and most are sensible replies, and I do agree we have to tackle problems like this and yes some if not all will not be welcomed by the masses but we can’t keep on like this we have to take action just like we have to tackle the plastic pollution problem, but I’ve yet to see a reply of how these measures will impact on the poorest in our society.
Most if not all these ideas which are implemented impact the poorest off in our country the most.
All these people deciding on these measures are probably fairly well off compared to the poorest in their area.
I’m OK compared to a lot of people round me,
I live in a one bedroom housing association flat, I’m not rich by any ones standards but thanks to my past work and pensions I’m comfortably off but still can’t afford to change my car to an electric one or even a newer one.
I do feel sorry for people in situations not of their making where measures like these impacts so much more on their lives than people like me and perhaps most people on this forum.
Best Wishes Tony

Yes at London's new ULEZ that will cover a much bigger area, and that's not only diesel but older petrol cars as well, that will come up to the bottom end of the M1 motorway on the boarders of the north and south circular road, the will include plenty of poorer people

 

[antiquesam]

Yes I did read (and I think) understand your post, maybe my edited quote was misleading. My point is that few ,if any, 'poor' people will be affected, well that is apart from them (hopefully) being less likely to die due to poor air quality. We do not as yet have any details of the councils proposed help for those affected.

Why do you think the poor won't suffer? Who is going to pay the tax on delivery lorries? If someone has an old diesel to get to work who is going to pay for another petrol car, because it will always be more expensive than the diesel which will have been rendered worthless.
I live in Portsmouth, who are looking closely at this idea. My old diesel motorhome is parked outside my house. How would I get to avoid paying, bearing in mind that I have to pay the Council £100 a year for the privilege of being allowed to park in the area.

 

[Okta]

NO2 is particularly harmful to children and the frail elderly. The highest concentrations of NO2 are found in cities, particularly near busy roads. Emission zones cause inconvenience and expense to road users.

Sorry road users (which includes me) but children and the frail come first.

 

[alcam]

well possibly those who were advised wrongly should be compensated instead of being punished.
also have we all forgot that petrol emits between 30-40% more CO2 than diesel.
We should be adopting a policy of getting rid of older diesels, that would be better.

Not disagreeing . But not expecting any compo

 

[Fisherman]

NO2 is particularly harmful to children and the frail elderly. The highest concentrations of NO2 are found in cities, particularly near busy roads. Emission zones cause inconvenience and expense to road users.

Sorry road users (which includes me) but children and the frail come first.

Off course children and the frail come first, I would like to think that no one would argue that point.
and I agree that we have to reduce locally NO2 and particulate matter from diesels, and globally CO2 emissions.
But it’s the way it’s being done that some find unacceptable.
First this should not be a decision for a city authority, it should be done on a national basis, as it is in the continent.
I would rather have seen a system similar to what is done in France where older pre euro4 diesels are banned, in all of our city centres where this is necessary. Banning newer models seems drastic and does not take into account advances made in lower emissions of NO2 and particulate matter from diesels. Diesels produce on average 30% less CO2, hence why we were all told to buy them.

 

[peter palance]

The ban doesn't apply to (newer) petrol cars which are lighter than their equivalent diesel alternatives, so a double win.

only tempory what will they blame next , rubber on your shoes, just another flat head, existant maybe well ,try spec/savers, oki pj

 

[alcam]

Mr Cameron, how do you know it would not be up and running prior to 2015 opening if electrification was to be in place?

Re, "spurious complaint". I have always advocated Sheriffhall roundabout should have been fixed prior to 300 mill + train set being built, as more of our population
use bypass than use the borders rail line ( which I do welcome as an addition to an alternative use of transport) I can count on one hand how many times I have used rail line, which is expensive. My postie, who lives in Galashiels, pays just over £200 per month (I asked him) to work commute from Gala to his Mid depot.

I really don't understand your "No mention of electrification then ?" comment?

Cheers, Alan.

First question there was not enough money
Sherifhall roundabout has no relevance to anything I'm talking about
I'm sure your postie prefers the train to the bus
When you previously moaned about the railway (can't remember what nitpicking complaint) you , when challenged , said the fares were too high . At that time you apparently didn't see a need for
electrification .
What has caused the 'Mr Cameron' "Alan' references ?
If you are trying to be creepy (strange ambition) I can assure you are doing very well

 

[trevskoda]

not the case with every dwelling,a lot depends on the consruction and the occupants habits. weve got a 5 bed bungalow, all the interior walls are studwork and plasterboard, exterior walls are plasterboard on the inside then 150mm fiberglass wool , theres very little heat gets to the exterior masonry. weve oil fired central heating with thermostatic valves on most rads, a master stat on the living room wall set to 19 degrees and a timer set for heating between 7am and 8.30 am and 4pm to 10 pm with manual overide if were in during the day and want heat. normally a 1000 litre top up lasts a winter and a half. heating 24/7 to a level that allows sitting round in the nude would use far more oil
our eldest put ground source heatpump and underfloor heating in their new build, that runs 24/7 and uses the thermal mass of the floor... to be honest i dont like the heat during the night, always sleep badly when we stay overnight. to my mind the leccy bills are horrendous.

First thing is ditch the tvr valves down stairs,the living room stat should be at 21c,water tank stat at 55c,if all walls insulated then keep it going,you can time it to knock of late ev to say 6 next day as it will only drop to 18c at most,i burn 2000ltr in 12 mth ,remember im in the second coldest place in ireland,even the ducks wear coats.

 

[trevskoda]

Why dont they just say no more diesel engines to be sold from end of year,then just let them die as normal or buy back scrapage after 15 years when most uncared for cars die.

 

[alcam]

Ignoring your usual lies , deflection actually downright dishonesty I'll get back to a very serious point .
You have suddenly started referring to me as , already stated , Alan , Mr Cameron . You don't know me and I , please God , don't know you .
You can laugh your arse off all day but you are behaving like a creep . Whats next my address ?
Don't know where any information you may have has come from but hopefully not from anyone on this site .

 

[colinm]

Why dont they just say no more diesel engines to be sold from end of year,then just let them die as normal or buy back scrapage after 15 years when most uncared for cars die.

Some manufacturers have already done this, Suzuki where using Fiat diesel engines, when they saw the real world emissions they decided to drop all diesels.

 

[Fisherman]

Read through the posts on here, including the personal ones.
bottom line.

No one on here should or would put their hobby ahead of the safety of those who may suffer from diesel emissions.
I bought my second Motorhome in June this year.
In terms of engine type realistically I had one choice diesel, nothing else is available. I handed over thousands of pounds in vat to our government.
If I had waited to September and bought an even cleaner euro 6D engine for doing so I would have incurred a bill of £2135 for my first years road tax followed by 5 years at £460. My diesel dishes out 80ppm the new 6D engine just over half at 50ppm. I only pay £265 a year. None of this makes any sense.
Yes I had another choice don’t buy a Motorhome, possibly that’s what many may decide to do now.

 

[trevskoda]

I wonder when electric gets going will the free tax end,you bet it will,the gov never mis a trick.
petrol engine cars will go the same way with high taxation come closer to cut of time.