Bargain lithium battery.

[Rumour]

Really? Governed by who, exactly?

Not the Chinese government!

 

[alcam]

Does that count as Sizeist, Racialist AND sexist?

Yes

 

[MERL]

Not the Chinese government

Well I guess that narrows it down slightly, one down, 194 to go eh? Anyone else you'd care to enlighten us it's not?

 

[chrishunter]

Its all been said, we use Temu regularly ,ive bought multimeters,battery testers ,obds ,dash cams,ETC and been very satisfied with what ive received. Everything cheaper look at halfords for these all 3 times the price and made in china. With regards having my bank details ,they can rob me because ive got nothing much in the bank its all drawn out and in the safe,i dont trust the bank .I tried to get a lump sum out to buy a car ,they wouldnt let me have it,i had to speak to the fraud dept and tell them what i wanted it for. I had to lie and say its for materials for a new kitchen.

 

[MERL]

Its all been said, we use Temu regularly ,ive bought multimeters,battery testers ,obds ,dash cams,ETC and been very satisfied with what ive received. Everything cheaper look at halfords for these all 3 times the price and made in china. With regards having my bank details ,they can rob me because ive got nothing much in the bank its all drawn out and in the safe,i dont trust the bank .I tried to get a lump sum out to buy a car ,they wouldnt let me have it,i had to speak to the fraud dept and tell them what i wanted it for. I had to lie and say its for materials for a new kitchen.

Can't believe it's took over a hundred posts regarding a Temu item before you appeared Chris! Where on earth have you been? Don't tell me.....on Temu

 

[chrishunter]

Can't believe it's took over a hundred posts regarding a Temu item before you appeared Chris! Where on earth have you been? Don't tell me.....on Temu

MERL, ive been bottling my homebrew and trying this new bread recipe. OH and trying to service the ecosport diesel of course ,with the regular belt.

 

[marchie]

UK Government pushing on with plans to cancel the £135 allowance below which no customs/import duties have to be paid. The move is designed to stop Temu and Shein undercutting UK businesses, but will not be introduced until 2029 because small businesses need time to adjust their systems; and because the UK Government will need to build a brand new IT System to process the millions of small shipments that will be affected by the change. Rachel from Accounts has matters in hand ...

Steve

 

[mariesnowgoose]

UK Government pushing on with plans to cancel the £135 allowance below which no customs/import duties have to be paid. The move is designed to stop Temu and Shein undercutting UK businesses, but will not be introduced until 2029 because small businesses need time to adjust their systems; and because the UK Government will need to build a brand new IT System to process the millions of small shipments that will be affected by the change. Rachel from Accounts has matters in hand ...

Steve

Bolted, horses, doors, stables … a loooong time ago too ….

 

[Geek]

The fact that there's no accepted and proven way of reviving a knackered lead acid battery proves that all the methods touted as being able to do so is almost certainly nonsense.

The current-limited series charging isnt to revive a dead battery. Nothing can do that.
What it can do is rebalance the cells after one or more weak cells have been reverse charged by excessive discharging.
That can definitely bring a duff battery back from 'dead' but it will never make it like new.

 

[Geek]

Not the Chinese government!

Given a choice between the Chinese government and the US government. I'd probably prefer the former to be monitoring.

 

[MERL]

The current-limited series charging isnt to revive a dead battery. Nothing can do that.
What it can do is rebalance the cells after one or more weak cells have been reverse charged by excessive discharging.
That can definitely bring a duff battery back from 'dead' but it will never make it like new.

Must admit to never hearing about or considered imbalance in lead acid batteries. I guess the simplest method would be to check and charge each cell as required providing it had the busbars exposed. When you say series, do you connect more than one 12v battery up in series? If so why? I assume to balance more than one battery at a time? What sort of constant current is used? And what does that achieve that leaving the battery on trickle wouldn't? Isn't it essentially the same thing?

 

[trevskoda]

Must admit to never hearing about or considered imbalance in lead acid batteries. I guess the simplest method would be to check and charge each cell as required providing it had the busbars exposed. When you say series, do you connect more than one 12v battery up in series? If so why? I assume to balance more than one battery at a time? What sort of constant current is used? And what does that achieve that leaving the battery on trickle wouldn't? Isn't it essentially the same thing?

Smart chargers are best, they make the battery do pressups.

 

[Geek]

Must admit to never hearing about or considered imbalance in lead acid batteries. I guess the simplest method would be to check and charge each cell as required providing it had the busbars exposed. When you say series, do you connect more than one 12v battery up in series? If so why? I assume to balance more than one battery at a time? What sort of constant current is used? And what does that achieve that leaving the battery on trickle wouldn't? Isn't it essentially the same thing?

This is normally something only a battery dealer would do. It is certainly something I have only done when working at a garage.
The problem is that a battery is made of several cells wired in series. Ideally, they are matched in capacity, but there will always be small differences.
When you discharge a battery, you are meant to stop long before it is empty, but sometimes that doesn't happen. The power is taken and eventually the weakest cell runs empty.
The other five keep pushing current through the load, which has the effect of reverse charging that weakest cell. The effect of this is that you have five 2v cells pushing and one 2v cell pulling, so the output voltage quickly drops to around 8v, until more cells run empty.
Eventually the load is removed and a charger connected. The battery gets recharged. However, the reverse charged cell(s) will not be properly full when the good cells are fully charged. Of course, the next time it is over-discharged, that half-charged, weaker cell will get reversed even sooner.
In theory, good smart chargers have an equalisation stage to fix this, but do it too much and you boil off the electrolyte, so they are very gentle (aka insufficient for bad cases).
So you string as many batteries as needed* in series and charge them at around 500ma to one amp for a loooong time, keeping them well ventilated to dissipate the gases, and well topped up with distilled water.
Nowadays, many batteries are sold as 'sealed for life'. The ones that just have a large electrolyte reservoir and hidden removable lids are OK, but this technique is no good for valve regulated sealed batteries or AGM ones.
* The places I've done it had several batteries that needed sorting, so they were all done together. I can't see why it'd not work with just one battery.

 

[Geek]

And what does that achieve that leaving the battery on trickle wouldn't? Isn't it essentially the same thing?

Trickle charging stops when the battery reaches a set voltage. This forces the current through whatever the terminal voltage reaches, because it is a constant current supply, not a battery charger.

 

[MERL]

Trickle charging stops when the battery reaches a set voltage.

I used to race RC electric cars back in the 90s with my lad so I'm quite experienced WRT the weakest cell in the pack getting repeatedly hammered, cell matching was crucial.
I've personally never seen the current drop to zero whilst trickle charging LA, it has always sat at around 100mA+ for a new battery increasing to 300mA give or take as the battery ages and becomes more 'lossy'. There's always losses with lead acid and therefore floating current will always flow surely?
Also could current drop to zero whilst a cell hadn't fully charged? If the chemical process of charging is still ongoing I can't see how current can stop?
Dunno, seems a bit of an unusual process but maybe I'm missing something
Can't see any references to it on the net either but I've not spent a lot of time looking. There's a lot of old fashioned myths and ideas concerning lead acid batteries, I remember my old boy putting a piece of cardboard under a battery whilst charging and he wouldn't charge it on a concrete floor either...both utter crap as it happens

 

[Geek]

Can't see any references to it on the net

It's interesting how much 'old boys' knowledge is NOT out there on the net.
It'll only be a few more years before the old boys are no longer with us, and that knowledge will be lost for good.

 

[Martin P]

Just wondering.
If I swap to lithium thingy lifpoo batteries . My current onboard charger is not compatible but with two big solar panels on the roof do I actually need a mains charger. I think I might just do away with that altogether.

 

[Geek]

Just wondering.
If I swap to lithium thingy lifpoo batteries . My current onboard charger is not compatible but with two big solar panels on the roof do I actually need a mains charger. I think I might just do away with that altogether.

You could do without a mains charger (we almost never use hookup) but you also have to fit a b2b charger. If you connect two lithium batteries and use a split charge setup, the much higher current will overheat your alternator enough to damage it pretty quickly.
A good b2b charger costs more than a better mains charger.

 

[MERL]

Just wondering.
If I swap to lithium thingy lifpoo batteries . My current onboard charger is not compatible but with two big solar panels on the roof do I actually need a mains charger. I think I might just do away with that altogether.

When lithium batteries were first introduced to leisure vehicles they came with an awful lot of mystery and caution. We now know a lot more about how lifepo4 works, what it needs and what it doesn't and the fact is it's way more tolerant of charging parameters than lead acid is, a lot of caution still exists as a hangover from those early times but the fact is you can use your mains charger with a couple provisos.
1, Look to see if there is a maximum battery Ah that you can use with the mains charger and halve it. Eg if it says 200Ah maximum then keep the lithium battery to 100Ah max, if it doesn't have a maximum AH rating then theoretically it'll be continuously rated and it doesn't matter. As a caution keep your eye on the fuse in the 12 volt side of the charger (output) wiggle it in and out a few times to clean the contacts and take a look at it and make sure it's not getting hot when being used.
2, Don't leave the charger switched on for weeks and weeks on end. Long term float charging lithium can damage them but you're talking about months and months on end before it becomes significant.
If you're anything like me since I updated my solar and fitted my starter battery maintainer I haven't plugged in anyway and see the mains charger as a sort of emergency option.

 

[Martin P]

Thanks. We have a Calira system which states a max battery capacity of 200 amps. It also provides for 240v breaker, split charging and 12v distribution
We have two 190 watt panels on the roof. Gas fridge ,gas truma so its just led lights, water pump, heating blower , tv and phone charger. Even if we max out on 12v usage overnight our 2 x110 lead acids are back to full charge by 11am on the cloudiest of days.
The only reason thinking of switching to lithium is weight really. If we go onto a site we never get a hookup so why would we need a mains charger. And if the solar keeps the batterys topped up why do we need a b2b thingy