B2B CHARGER.

My compressor fridge runs at about 3A but it doesn’t run all the time, it cuts in and out, mostly out. Over 24 hours I reckon it uses 20Ah to 30Ah which is easily replaced by a B2B with an hour or two of driving. Also worth remembering that unlike a 3 way fridge the compressor only takes a few amps out of the available charge when driving.

I have paralleled B2Bs. The original Schaudt/Lippert WA121525 and a Victron Orion XS 50. I have fitted a switch to the D+ feed to the WA121525 because it is not always needed and has only a very basic Li charging profile. The XS is a bit kinder to the battery. When needed both run happily together.
Fully aware of your comments, and I stated clearly I fully accept the advantages of a compressor fridge over absorption, I thought I made that clear. But the current draw depends on the size of fridge suppled, the amount of times you open the door, and the internal temperature of your van. Rapido reckon the Dometic fridge they now install in my van would draw between 40-70amps in a 24 hour period, depending on use. I spend up to a week in winter with little or no solar and little or no driving, even using only 20A a day as you quote I would use 140A. I have only two 100ah batteries. So in summer I would prefer a compressor fridge, but in winter I prefer absorption. Hence why I stated I am undecided on what is best, but I suspect in my case I am better sticking to absorption, with all its drawbacks it offers extremely low power use in winter.
 
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That's an impressively small unit considering it's rated at 50A. A couple of questions for the Blue Experts if they'd care to chip in:-
How long has that unit been out?
Any reported throttling back issues with it when it gets warm? (I know Victron had this previously with a certain model, cant recall if it was a SCC or a B2B)
Does the Lithium profile have any 'Float' component? Or is it simply 50A up until the threshold voltage is reached and then Zero current? Knowing Victron this will be customisable no doubt but I wondered how Victron chose their default LFP setting.
Ta (y)
March 2024 first release date of charger.
And yes it is remarkable how small it is, and how cool with no use of a fan.
But David converted me to Victron, I am now a fully paid up member. :)
 
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Fully aware of your comments, and I stated clearly I fully accept the advantages of a compressor fridge over absorption, I thought I made that clear. But the current draw depends on the size of fridge suppled, the amount of times you open the door, and the internal temperature of your van. Rapido reckon the Dometic fridge they now install in my van would draw between 40-70amps in a 24 hour period, depending on use. I spend up to a week in winter with little or no solar and little or no driving, even using only 20A a day as you quote I would use 140A. I have only two 100ah batteries. So in summer I would prefer a compressor fridge, but in winter I prefer absorption. Hence why I stated I am undecided on what is best, but I suspect in my case I am better sticking to absorption, with all its drawbacks it offers extremely low power use in winter.
Jeez, what size fridge/freezer is that, well bottom end of the figures yes (48amp max on a fridge freezer)? I have looked at loads of compressor fridges and fridge freezers in the past and never seen anything that comes close to Dometics figures. Did they but other fridge manufacturers apart from Waeco does anyone know?
 
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Jeez, what size fridge/freezer is that, well bottom end of the figures yes (48amp max on a fridge freezer)? I have looked at loads of compressor fridges and fridge freezers in the past and never seen anything that comes close to Dometics figures. Did they but other fridge manufacturers apart from Waeco does anyone know?
My apologies to both you and Okta Nab, Rapido actually quoted 20-50 not 40-70.

:(
 
Jeez, what size fridge/freezer is that, well bottom end of the figures yes (48amp max on a fridge freezer)? I have looked at loads of compressor fridges and fridge freezers in the past and never seen anything that comes close to Dometics figures. Did they but other fridge manufacturers apart from Waeco does anyone know?
The specification for my Thetford compressor fridge says it uses 0.34kWh/24h, on a 12.8V lithium battery that equates to 26.6Ah per day. The largest compressor fridge in the range uses 0.56kWh/24h which equates to 43.8Ah per day. I believe the Dometic versions have similar consumption figures.
 
My compressor fridge runs at about 3A but it doesn’t run all the time, it cuts in and out, mostly out. Over 24 hours I reckon it uses 20Ah to 30Ah which is easily replaced by a B2B with an hour or two of driving. Also worth remembering that unlike a 3 way fridge the compressor only takes a few amps out of the available charge when driving.

I have paralleled B2Bs. The original Schaudt/Lippert WA121525 and a Victron Orion XS 50. I have fitted a switch to the D+ feed to the WA121525 because it is not always needed and has only a very basic Li charging profile. The XS is a bit kinder to the battery. When needed both run happily together.
Something I have done with my Ablemail B2Bs - and is possible with the Victrons as well, but not sure on other kit - is to vary the activation delays so they don't all come on (or go off) together.
My 60A B2B is actually a pair of 30A B2Bs in a single metal enclosure, so each half can be programmed independently. My 30A B2B is in it's own metal enclosure.
I have them set so there is a 5 second delay between each one turning on and also 5 seconds for each turning off - the idea is there is less of a sudden 'wham' on the alternator. I am happy enough with all the B2Bs active as the alternator is brand new. When it was the original c2007 one, I only used the third B2B when the voltage reached a higher level to avoid excess stress.

That's an impressively small unit considering it's rated at 50A. A couple of questions for the Blue Experts if they'd care to chip in:-
How long has that unit been out?
Any reported throttling back issues with it when it gets warm? (I know Victron had this previously with a certain model, cant recall if it was a SCC or a B2B)
Lots of B2Bs seem to suffer from throttling back due to heat. The original Orion Smart-Tr B2B had this issue but a rework of the unit all but eliminated it (and Victron offered a free swap-out for all the older units - an owner could quote the serial number and Victron would know if it was in the affected period and so in scope for replacement)
The new Orion-XS is a very different product (as can be seen by the packaging) and I would guess Victron learnt from their previous model what to change.
There are quite a few people that advocate setting the charge rate a little below the maximum so it will not not run at full power and so generate full heat. This is for the B2B and also the Multiplus. I judge if that is worth doing by evaluating the install location... if very enclosed, then could be worth dropping to 90% of the rating.
On my B2Bs, they usually run upto 110% of the rated current (i can hit 100A charge on the 90A worth of B2B) and that is within spec as they are deliberately under quoted by the maker. I tested the 30A unit around 5 or 6 years ago and it output a constant 33A for 4 hours until it switched to absorption mode. But now they are in a much more enclosed area I added a fan that runs when the B2B is on to provide some airflow across the heatsinks - never hurts to cool electrics!

Does the Lithium profile have any 'Float' component? Or is it simply 50A up until the threshold voltage is reached and then Zero current? Knowing Victron this will be customisable no doubt but I wondered how Victron chose their default LFP setting.
Ta (y)
Best thing to do is install the VictronConnect App, run that up and select "Orion XS" from the Demo Library and you can see what the defaults are and what is changable.
 
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The specification for my Thetford compressor fridge says it uses 0.34kWh/24h, on a 12.8V lithium battery that equates to 26.6Ah per day. The largest compressor fridge in the range uses 0.56kWh/24h which equates to 43.8Ah per day. I believe the Dometic versions have similar consumption figures.
The old debate over which is best compressor or absorption fridge is not solely down to the fridge, if it was compressor fridge would win hands down. But the simple fact that you can run an absorption fridge on gas in winter means that although the absorption fridge is more expensive, draws more current, is more difficult to install, is much less efficient in warmer weather, requires servicing, and has more fault issues than a compressor fridge the absorption fridge is the better possibly only realistic option in winter for many. Improvements in battery technology are being developed all the time, and if we ever see these so called super batteries coming to fruition, this will all but end the use of absorption fridges. Even at the lower end of use of 20a a day I would require to double my battery capacity for winter use, I could manage a 50% increase by adding a third 100ah under the passenger seat, but I have nowhere else to add a fourth. The space under the drivers seat being utilised by a victron 1200 inverter. Horses for courses.
 
The old debate over which is best compressor or absorption fridge is not solely down to the fridge, if it was compressor fridge would win hands down. But the simple fact that you can run an absorption fridge on gas in winter means that although the absorption fridge is more expensive, draws more current, is more difficult to install, is much less efficient in warmer weather, requires servicing, and has more fault issues than a compressor fridge the absorption fridge is the better possibly only realistic option in winter for many. Improvements in battery technology are being developed all the time, and if we ever see these so called super batteries coming to fruition, this will all but end the use of absorption fridges. Even at the lower end of use of 20a a day I would require to double my battery capacity for winter use, I could manage a 50% increase by adding a third 100ah under the passenger seat, but I have nowhere else to add a fourth. The space under the drivers seat being utilised by a victron 1200 inverter. Horses for courses.
Would it not be more space efficient to have one 300ah battery Bill?
 
Hi Trev, I would only consider more batteries if I had a compressor fridge. I find I have plenty of storage with my current 2X 100ah batteries.
Sounds like your setup is similar to mine Bill. I've made a little alteration to my system that you may be interested in. I'm just trialing it ATM but if it works as planned I'll be able to assist the gas fridge with some 12V power thereby cutting the gas consumption by around 1/2 or even run the be fridge from 12V while parked up off grid. Solar providing of course.
 
Sounds like your setup is similar to mine Bill. I've made a little alteration to my system that you may be interested in. I'm just trialing it ATM but if it works as planned I'll be able to assist the gas fridge with some 12V power thereby cutting the gas consumption by around 1/2 or even run the be fridge from 12V while parked up off grid. Solar providing of course.
Sounds very interning Merl. My fridge draws around 15Ah when on, on battery.
I have 330w of solar controlled by a victron 100/30 MPPT.

We have diesel heating so use hardly any gas, but even less would be better. Cheers.
 
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Good evening all. Looking ahead to when We get some lithium, I'm looking at B2B chargers. We are currently running 3 x 110 ah lead acid batteries, charging via a solar panel and a VSR. Whilst this system has served us well for several years, I'd like to upgrade eventually to lithium. I assume I can purchase a B2B charger and run it on my current lead acid batteries until we're ready to go lithium? Would a decent B2B (say victron) be capable of charging lead acid or lithium so it can be used when we change to lithium? Also does it matter what charge rate unit I get, I'm thinking the higher charge rate the quicker our batteries will be charged? All suggestions and ideas welcome.

Thank you.

Colin.
If you go for Ecobat lithium they are compatible with Lead acid charging systems as they have software in the battery to protect the battery . I corresponded with them at length before ordering one to link to my 18 year old Sergeant system .
 
Well I've just purchased (subject to bank card approval😁) a Victron Orion XS50A For a great price thanks to our discount 👍. So once I get a few rest days I'll be trying to fit it to our van, and no doubt be asking for help again with the wiring in etc. Thank you all for your help so far. 🙂😁
 
No worries at all — and absolutely no need to apologise! You’re out there doing vital work, and I’ve got massive respect for everyone in patient transport. My dad was an Ambulance Man for over 50 years with West Midlands Ambulance Service, my eldest brother was a PTS Controller, and my younger brother’s still serving as a station officer after 30 years — so I’ve got a real soft spot for the service and know just how demanding the shifts can be.

Thanks for what you do — and take your time replying, we’ll still be here!

Cheers,

Phil
Thanks Phil. The "green family" as we used to call ourselves at EEAST is a great team. Sadly after over 30 years of them having the PTS contract in Cambridge they lost it to a private ambulance provider who I transfers to last October. Still love the job, but would much rather be working for the trust. Sadly that seems to be the way things are going these days.☹️.
 
Good afternoon all. I've now received our Victron Orion XS50A! Just need to sort the cable out now. I'm still a little confused re this. Basically the Orion unit will be approx 1-1.5 meters from the vehicle starter battery and probably a maximum of 1 meter from the connection of our battery bank. I assume the negative cable can either be connected (from the Orion) to the starter battery or a convenient ground? So in total I've probably got a maximum of 2.5 meters of live cable and 1.5 of negative cable required. So would I be ok with 16mm2 for these cables? Obviously with a 60 amp fuse on each of the live ends, or are breakers preferable? I just want to get it right before I make a start on the install. I'll probably have so more questions, but that's it for now🙂👍
 
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