Another Short Sighted Council

[Robmac]

Rob, we were in St Andrews a number of years ago ( before our first van) on a nice summers day.
When we went back to the beech carpark to get the car we decided to take a walk along the beech.
The amount of litter left by day trippers was absolutely disgusting.
On another visit during covid to Loch Tay we witnessed miles of rubbish including tents, remnants of fires on the loch shore, and all kinds of stuff floating on the water.
On our last visit to Musselburgh before they banned us, the amount of rubbish left in the car park and the beech by youths in cars was disgraceful.
We are banned now in St Andrews and Musselburgh but those who abused these places with their litter, and anti social behaviour, are free to return.

I'm not disputing any of that Bill, I'm talking about abuse of litter bins and Neil's previous post about Household waste.

A large bag full of waste such as empty soup or baked bean cans, egg cartons, milk cartons etc. etc. is more likely to have come from a motorhome than a car - motorhomes are used as short (or long) term residences, cars are not. So the point I thought Neil was trying to make was that we as motorhomers shouldn't put large bags full of rubbish into public litter bins, these bags fill the bins quickly and then nobody has anywhere to put their rubbish and you get litter. It had never occurred to me that you shouldn't do this before but it makes sense.

Don't ask me what the answer is though, maybe use site bins when you book in to empty your cassette etc.?

 

[Rolyan57]

the same waste from a car being ok then

Realistically, there is no way that day trippers parking their car for the day come back carrying bags of household rubbish, putting them into the car park bins before leaving. Whereas the camper vans staying over are indeed likely to do exactly that.

Obviously we shouldn’t accept the blame for everything, but we shouldn’t be in denial either.

 

[jacquigem]

In Spain , I will put a single used bottle or carton into a small rubbish bin if available , but always leave space for others. Can usually find a big green dumpster for bulk disposal of balance . Always try to recycle , especially empty beer and wine bottles.

 

[Fisherman]

Let’s be straight here anyone who reckons that they should fill bins that are obviously not meant to carry household waste preventing others from using the bins provided properly are being selfish and inconsiderate.
But given the choice between such selfish behaviour and leaving your rubbish at your backside on grass areas, beeches, public parks etc, I know what is worse.
What I find frustrating is that whereas those who leave rubbish and behave anti socially are free to return to do so time and time again, with no attempt to curtail such behaviour, we are in many instances dealt with by the same councils, who do nothing to sort out such anti social selfishness.
This has nothing to do with being equitable or reasonable, and more to do with taking care of easy targets, than doing what should be done.
How many times we have picked up rubbish left by others only to find that next time we attempt to go to the same place, we alone have been banned, eludes me.

 

[Robmac]

Let’s be straight here anyone who reckons that they should fill bins that are obviously not meant to carry household waste preventing others from using the bins provided properly are being selfish and inconsiderate.
But given the choice between such selfish behaviour and leaving your rubbish at your backside on grass areas, beeches, public parks etc, I know what is worse.
What I find frustrating is that whereas those who leave rubbish and behave anti socially are free to return to do so time and time again, with no attempt to curtail such behaviour, we are in many instances dealt with by the same councils, who do nothing to sort out such anti social selfishness.
This has nothing to do with being equitable or reasonable, and more to do with taking care of easy targets, than doing what should be done.
How many times we have picked up rubbish left by others only to find that next time we attempt to go to the same place, we alone have been banned eludes me.

Unfortunately Bill they can't ban cars it would kill the economy completely and as you say we are easy targets due to the actions of a few. Surveillance equipment and massive fines are the only thing that I can think of.

But I bet not much is said in our defence once we are banned and the anti social behaviour continues, that should be the follow up.

 

[Fisherman]

Unfortunately Bill they can't ban cars it would kill the economy completely and as you say we are easy targets due to the actions of a few. Surveillance equipment and massive fines are the only thing that I can think of.

But I bet not much is said in our defence once we are banned and the anti social behaviour continues, that should be the follow up.

Rob, not for one moment was I suggesting anyone should ban cars, or anyone who has behaved properly. What we have are lazy councils who seek to pick on one group, who don’t always behave properly whilst ignoring everything else that happens.

A few years ago we parked up on a small car park Halidon hill for two nights over looking Berwick. Our one and only wc in England. The Friday night was peaceful, but the Saturday night the carpark was full of youths “enjoying themselves.” Next morning the car park was covered in all sorts of rubbish. My wife and I spent around ten minutes gathering it all up and putting it in the bin provided. About a year later we returned to find we were banned.

My gripe is really simple, why only us, we all know the answer, we are easy to identify, we are not local, and there is much ignorance out there about what we enjoy doing.
I remember you telling us how when meeting an old lady in St Andrews she told you she felt threatened by our presence. But I don’t blame that old lady, if I was not involved in this myself, I may well feel likewise after reading what’s online, and in certain media outlets and local newspapers.

 

[Canalsman]

Unfortunately Bill they can't ban cars it would kill the economy completely and as you say we are easy targets due to the actions of a few. Surveillance equipment and massive fines are the only thing that I can think of.

But I bet not much is said in our defence once we are banned and the anti social behaviour continues, that should be the follow up.

The solution is a long term one. Until the behaviour is regarded as socially unacceptable, as it is in France for example, the practice will continue.

I'm of an age where when I was young such behaviour was unacceptable. Something appears to have changed...

 

[alcam]

Rob, not for one moment was I suggesting anyone should ban cars, or anyone who has behaved properly. What we have are lazy councils who seek to pick on one group, who don’t always behave properly whilst ignoring everything else that happens.

A few years ago we parked up on a small car park Halidon hill for two nights over looking Berwick. Our one and only wc in England. The Friday night was peaceful, but the Saturday night the carpark was full of youths “enjoying themselves.” Next morning the car park was covered in all sorts of rubbish. My wife and I spent around ten minutes gathering it all up and putting it in the bin provided. About a year later we returned to find we were banned.

My gripe is really simple, why only us, we all know the answer, we are easy to identify, we are not local, and there is much ignorance out there about what we enjoy doing.
I remember you telling us how when meeting an old lady in St Andrews she told you she felt threatened by our presence. But I don’t blame that old lady, if I was not involved in this myself, I may well feel likewise after reading what’s online, and in certain media outlets and local newspapers.

The old lady probably felt threatened by the sheer number of motorhomes.
Musselburgh was another case of shooting ourselves in the foot .
I agree councils could , and should , look for a better solution rather than just a total ban .
Littering drives me nuts but don't know the solution. Funnily enough the boy racers mostly appear to be ok young people . But still just open their door and drop the wrappers on the ground. Often when parked a couple of yards from a bin .
When I was a child I was bombarded with anti littering propaganda . It did seem to work .
Time for social media to do something useful?

 

[Fisherman]

The old lady probably felt threatened by the sheer number of motorhomes.
Musselburgh was another case of shooting ourselves in the foot .
I agree councils could , and should , look for a better solution rather than just a total ban .
Littering drives me nuts but don't know the solution. Funnily enough the boy racers mostly appear to be ok young people . But still just open their door and drop the wrappers on the ground. Often when parked a couple of yards from a bin .
When I was a child I was bombarded with anti littering propaganda . It did seem to work .
Time for social media to do something useful?

Musselburgh had many issues, probably still has.
The behaviour of some of the low life there got so bad, we decided never to return.
Then they banned us.
After they banned us the toilets were so badly vandalised they had to be closed.
Listening to drunks swearing on the beech till the early hours, then leaving all of their rubbish, taps being left turned on, dog mess, and rubbish everywhere etc.
I reckon we were the least of their problems.
On our three visits I think from memory five vans was the largest number I seen, and we all parked under the flats. But there was a caravan which had been parked there for months with a Spanish couple, who I was told worked in Edinburgh and came back there after finishing their shift.
Musselburgh was no loss as far as we were concerned.

 

[alcam]

Musselburgh had many issues, probably still has.
The behaviour of some of the low life there got so bad, we decided never to return.
Then they banned us.
After they banned us the toilets were so badly vandalised they had to be closed.
Listening to drunks swearing on the beech till the early hours, then leaving all of their rubbish, taps being left turned on, dog mess, and rubbish everywhere etc.
I reckon we were the least of their problems.
On our three visits I think from memory five vans was the largest number I seen, and we all parked under the flats. But there was a caravan which had been parked there for months with a Spanish couple, who I was told worked in Edinburgh and came back there after finishing their shift.
Musselburgh was no loss as far as we were concerned.

Went there regularly. Became completely rammed with vans . Including people parking in the turning area . People with table and chairs out , beach 6 feet away !
To be honest I never parked in front of the flats .
The other behaviour you mention is , of course , disgraceful but a different subject altogether

 

[Fisherman]

Went there regularly. Became completely rammed with vans . Including people parking in the turning area . People with table and chairs out , beach 6 feet away !
To be honest I never parked in front of the flats .
The other behaviour you mention is , of course , disgraceful but a different subject altogether

If I turned up and it was that busy I would not have stayed there.
But I would not go back there if they paid me.

 

[mariesnowgoose]

The old lady probably felt threatened by the sheer number of motorhomes.
Musselburgh was another case of shooting ourselves in the foot .
I agree councils could , and should , look for a better solution rather than just a total ban .
Littering drives me nuts but don't know the solution. Funnily enough the boy racers mostly appear to be ok young people . But still just open their door and drop the wrappers on the ground. Often when parked a couple of yards from a bin .
When I was a child I was bombarded with anti littering propaganda . It did seem to work .
Time for social media to do something useful?

There needs to be more bins and regular emptying services for starters!

Plus the manufacturers and producers of goods and foodstuffs need to be made to get their act together and stop producing the absolute mountains of unnecessary packaging that increasingly fill up not only our domestic bins, but every bin between Land's End and John O'Groats! Makes my blood boil

Keep Britain Tidy was a public campaign against littering back when the dinosaurs were alive. Never had much teeth then (in terms of enforcement) and faded into nothing over the years since. People appear to have become more selfish and uncaring (unaware maybe?) about the environment(s) we all occupy.

Our public services/governments/educational systems have never been on top of this growing problem. It should be fairly simple to persuade or stop people from littering by using a combination of public education through to very heavy fines - and making sure there are enough bodies employed to issue and enforce those fines, because without the latter it's all just hot air. After all, speed restrictions can be introduced wherever and whenever they want. And nearly everywhere you can publicly park a vehicle these days increasingly requires an unavoidable fee of some sort.

But, as with just about everything in "public" life, it requires a) money to make it work and - arguably even more important - b) political will. Which basically means it will never happen

 

[alcam]

If I turned up and it was that busy I would not have stayed there.
But I would not go back there if they paid me.

Never stayed when it was busy
Stopped even going on spec

 

[gasgas]

Presumably the traffic warden would have to prove all the occupants were asleep.

Difficult.

Years ago there was a motorhomer campaigning against sea front parking in Scarborough. No sleeping in motorhomes. He said he will continue to do so and if challenged he would say he is a Buddhist and was meditating. Any contradiction of that would constitute racial hatred and religious intolerance on the part of the council. I didn't hear any follow up. He liked sea front fishing, as a lot of people do so the natural thing to do would have been to do his fishing into the small hours, then climb into the motorhome to sleep. I think he had a very small one, possibly if you had a Kangoo van you would get away with it as it is not a campervan.
Does anyone know if motorhomes are kept 6 metres apart in the Official Council Owned Camp Site? That would be interesting, if they are not . . . . . . .

 

[Robmac]

.

 

[Rolyan57]

Years ago there was a motorhomer campaigning against sea front parking in Scarborough. No sleeping in motorhomes. He said he will continue to do so and if challenged he would say he is a Buddhist and was meditating. Any contradiction of that would constitute racial hatred and religious intolerance on the part of the council. I didn't hear any follow up. He liked sea front fishing, as a lot of people do so the natural thing to do would have been to do his fishing into the small hours, then climb into the motorhome to sleep. I think he had a very small one, possibly if you had a Kangoo van you would get away with it as it is not a campervan.
Does anyone know if motorhomes are kept 6 metres apart in the Official Council Owned Camp Site? That would be interesting, if they are not . . . . . . .

I look forward to the comedy of seeing him try the “racial hatred and religious intolerance” card in court.

 

[Fisherman]

Talking of short sighted councils Rob, I almost missed your full stop in post 95

 

[Robmac]

Talking of short sighted councils Rob, I almost missed your full stop in post 95

Yeah but could you see my point though Bill?

 

[Fisherman]

Yeah but could you see my point though Bill?

Let’s keep it clean Rob, , there are ladies on here you know

But I do like a man who stands up for what he believes in

 

[marchie]

Let’s keep it clean Rob, , there are ladies on here you know

But I do like a man who stands up for what he believes in

Attractive lady asks Weegie kilt wearer to prove he is 'going commando' by lifting his kilt. When he does so, she shouts, 'Oooh, it's gruesome!', to which the Weegie replies, 'Aye, hen, and if I stond here admiring you any longer, it'll grew some more ...'

Steve