Another Short Sighted Council

[Rolyan57]

They don’t seem to realise that the vast majority want to visit to spend money in the theatres, pubs, restaurants & shops. Even at £100 per visit the local economy is losing £100,000 at the figure quoted. First they cancelled the popular Christmas market which brought in millions and now this.

As you say, there is lots of room to put in dedicated motorhome bays.
The campsite in the article closes tomorrow for the 4 months winter season.

The council will not believe that all motorhomers spend on average £100 per visit, probably with good reason.

As Marie said, the council are firefighting on several fronts. So they look at the limited income this generates, balance it against the reports of misuse of bins and the H&S risk, and think it’s easier to enforce the existing TRO.

Bear in mind that it’s highly unlikely that any shop will ever close and link it directly to this, and they’ll never see a negative effect of this.

They don’t owe us anything, despite what some believe, and just like stopping the Christmas market they’ll think they’ve done the right thing for the area. It’s a shame but it’s not a conspiracy.

 

[trevskoda]

The council will not believe that all motorhomers spend on average £100 per visit, probably with good reason.

As Marie said, the council are firefighting on several fronts. So they look at the limited income this generates, balance it against the reports of misuse of bins and the H&S risk, and think it’s easier to enforce the existing TRO.

Bear in mind that it’s highly unlikely that any shop will ever close and link it directly to this, and they’ll never see a negative effect of this.

They don’t owe us anything, despite what some believe, and just like stopping the Christmas market they’ll think they’ve done the right thing for the area. It’s a shame but it’s not a conspiracy.

Sure about this.

 

[Harrytherid]

Also they haven't mentioned any mess, its misuse of the litter bins. A lot of people may not know that household rubbish shouldn't go in litter bins. Waste in a camper is household

So where are you supposed to put it, then? It is horrible after a couple of weeks if you take it home

 

[Nabsim]

So where are you supposed to put it, then? It is horrible after a couple of weeks if you take it home

Not saying I agree with it, just how it is. I use the litter bins

 

[Fisherman]

Not saying I agree with it, just how it is. I use the litter bins

We do try not to use litter bins by spending one night in four either in a site, or a CL.
But there have been rare occasions were we have used a litter bin.
In Ireland there are hardly any public facilities, and you have to pay to dispose of your rubbish.
But whats most important is that under no circumstances it is dumped inappropriately.

 

[Harrytherid]

Not saying I agree with it, just how it is. I use the litter bins

Fair enough, so do I

 

[Rolyan57]

Sure about this. View attachment 136927

Yeah, pretty sure that ‘Carry On’ got it right with “infamy, infamy, they’ve all got it in for me”

I think the hardest thing many learn is that not everyone shares our heart felt beliefs. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s more that as individuals we’re pretty insignificant. Some just find that hard to take

 

[Robmac]

When we were allowed to have meets at St Andrews we bagged up our rubbish and the council came and collected it in the morning (by arrangement). We chatted with the collectors who were very friendly.

Unfortunately we aren't allowed to have meets there any more.

 

[Fisherman]

When we were allowed to have meets at St Andrews we bagged up our rubbish and the council came and collected it in the morning (by arrangement). We chatted with the collectors who were very friendly.

Unfortunately we aren't allowed to have meets there any more.

Sadly St Andrews with its massive carpark seem happier inviting hundreds (and I mean hundreds) of visitors in the warmer months who turn up head to the beech, use the toilets, and leave their rubbish on the beech than allowing a few motorhomes to spend the night there. It’s a fact that most who motor-homed there came from afar, many of whom never having been there before, and who ventured into the town spending their cash. On our last, and it will be our last visit, we took our grandson there, and between tickets for the sea life centre, and going for a meal etc we spent a few quid. Which I only point out due to us alone having to justify spending time in such locations.

Sadly Fife Coastal Trust have failed to do what they have done so well throughout Fife, in providing limited controlled access for us to overnight. And it has provided dividends for local businesses in Fife, as well as helping with the costs of managing these facilities.
But to quote a warden I spoke to recently, St Andrews is a law unto itself.
Oh and the above is not my opinion, it’s the result of a survey of local businesses within Fife.

 

[Robmac]

Sadly St Andrews with its massive carpark seem happier inviting hundreds (and I mean hundreds) of visitors in the warmer months who turn up head to the beech, use the toilets, and leave their rubbish on the beech than allowing a few motorhomes to spend the night there. It’s a fact that most who motor-homed there came from afar, many of whom never having been there before, and who ventured into the town spending their cash. On our last, and it will be our last visit, we took our grandson there, and between tickets for the sea life centre, and going for a meal etc we spent a few quid. Which I only point out due to us alone having to justify spending time in such locations.

Sadly Fife Coastal Trust have failed to do what they have done so well throughout Fife, in providing limited controlled access for us to overnight. And it has provided dividends for local businesses in Fife, as well as helping with the costs of managing these facilities.
But to quote a warden I spoke to recently, St Andrews is a law unto itself.
Oh and the above is not my opinion, it’s the result of a survey of local businesses within Fife.

The local chippy was very glad to see us - fish and chips for about 30 vans I think it was Bill. Given that most of us used the pubs and restaurants in the town as well, i think we actually spent thousands between us all last time we were there. I seem to remember somebody actually did work it out at the time but I can't find the thread now.

It's a hard one to call though. I know what I spend whenever we go away - Julie often reminds me! Mind you she's as bad, she likes to buy presents for the grandkids as well as souvenirs and if she finds a farm shop or similar then I know the card is in for a bashing. I know of others though who take pride in taking a holiday as cheaply as possible - and good luck to them, sometimes just getting somewhere costs a small fortune and not everyone has a lot of disposable income.

It's almost impossible to quantify what we contribute to local communities until we are banned and then it may well be that other circumstances come into play if there is a downwards trend. The only good thing that come out of bans is that it possibly may prove that it isn't us who are responsible for litter Etc. I know this is old ground we are covering and maybe we shouldn't have to prove anything, but at the same time we don't want to APPEAR to be entitled when local councils may have bigger fish to fry at the moment in the eyes of their constituents.

Personally as you know, I'm quite happy using pub stops, farmers fields and CL/CS's, I just wish that the councils could be a bit more flexible with these arrangements.

 

[Fisherman]

The local chippy was very glad to see us - fish and chips for about 30 vans I think it was Bill. Given that most of us used the pubs and restaurants in the town as well, i think we actually spent thousands between us all last time we were there. I seem to remember somebody actually did work it out at the time but I can't find the thread now.

It's a hard one to call though. I know what I spend whenever we go away - Julie often reminds me! Mind you she's as bad, she likes to buy presents for the grandkids as well as souvenirs and if she finds a farm shop or similar then I know the card is in for a bashing. I know of others though who take pride in taking a holiday as cheaply as possible - and good luck to them, sometimes just getting somewhere costs a small fortune and not everyone has a lot of disposable income.

It's almost impossible to quantify what we contribute to local communities until we are banned and then it may well be that other circumstances come into play if there is a downwards trend. The only good thing that come out of bans is that it possibly may prove that it isn't us who are responsible for litter Etc. I know this is old ground we are covering and maybe we shouldn't have to prove anything, but at the same time we don't want to APPEAR to be entitled when local councils may have bigger fish to fry at the moment in the eyes of their constituents.

Personally as you know, I'm quite happy using pub stops, farmers fields and CL/CS's, I just wish that the councils could be a bit more flexible with these arrangements.

Spot on Rob, but to be perfectly frank St Andrews with its thousand pound a night hotels does not need us. But that’s no excuse for their behaviour towards us. Other parts of Fife are struggling and have benefited from us. Lochore is a prime example we are the only people who pay to use their facilities, but I am ok with this. By simply paying to stay there you are helping them to provide what’s on offer for free for others. Findhorn in Nairn has now recouped all they spent providing us with 21 places to stay. They have also this year increased the max stay from two to three nights. They reckon outwith any money spent within the community they will now earn £50-70,000 a year from our staying there. And for such a small community that’s a lot of cash. But this type of thing requires lateral thinking, and good business acumen, something lacking in many of our councils.

 

[Rolyan57]

The local chippy was very glad to see us - fish and chips for about 30 vans I think it was Bill. Given that most of us used the pubs and restaurants in the town as well, i think we actually spent thousands between us all last time we were there. I seem to remember somebody actually did work it out at the time but I can't find the thread now.

It's a hard one to call though. I know what I spend whenever we go away - Julie often reminds me! Mind you she's as bad, she likes to buy presents for the grandkids as well as souvenirs and if she finds a farm shop or similar then I know the card is in for a bashing. I know of others though who take pride in taking a holiday as cheaply as possible - and good luck to them, sometimes just getting somewhere costs a small fortune and not everyone has a lot of disposable income.

It's almost impossible to quantify what we contribute to local communities until we are banned and then it may well be that other circumstances come into play if there is a downwards trend. The only good thing that come out of bans is that it possibly may prove that it isn't us who are responsible for litter Etc. I know this is old ground we are covering and maybe we shouldn't have to prove anything, but at the same time we don't want to APPEAR to be entitled when local councils may have bigger fish to fry at the moment in the eyes of their constituents.

Personally as you know, I'm quite happy using pub stops, farmers fields and CL/CS's, I just wish that the councils could be a bit more flexible with these arrangements.

I think you’re right, it’s very difficult to quantify how much we spend.

Personally I don’t believe we’ve ever been expected or required to justify the spend. That’s something that we’ve created, with groups like CAMpRA reporting clearly biased figures, and individual motorhomers and online groups proclaiming huge figures.

We’ve introduced the dubious figures into the discussion, instead of concentrating on the other benefits. Councils are not stupid, they clearly question what we’re saying, and all they see is their cash strapped budgets, local opposition, H&S requirement and the instances of unsocial behaviour, however rare.

It was fine back in the day when the numbers were small, and we weren’t raising these stories of how much we contribute. We just visited, enjoyed the stay and moved on. But the numbers have increased massively over the last few years, with some groups proclaiming how we're the saviours of places, while ignoring the real concerns that people have.

Obviously it wont get back to how it was; it will be interesting to see what the next few years bring.

 

[TeamRienza]

I use a Starling debit card with a Euros account. This is used exclusively when we are in France or Spain with the motorhome.

We did two 5 to 6 week trips this year. Both trips indicate spends of around €3500 , making a total of about €7000 . This excludes ferry prices.
This pattern of holiday length and spend occurs every year.

My point being that I can accurately tell that I average around €700 per week, or €100 per day. We do not use campsites, but are happy to pay for Aires.

Do I spend this much in the UK? Harder to quantify as my wife uses her cards then, but my spending during the weekend just passed was £135 on food, goods and other sundries. She appears to have spent approximately £202.

Obviously people spend according to their budget. We are fortunate to have a decent disposable income. It disappoints me to take €7000 out of the UK economy, however the towns and villages of France with local powers know the value of motorhoming and gain my money and will continue to benefit while monolithic, bureaucratic UK councils take a blinkered view.

Good weather and cheap wine are, of course a factor in going abroad.

Davy

 

[Robmac]

I think you’re right, it’s very difficult to quantify how much we spend.

Personally I don’t believe we’ve ever been expected or required to justify the spend. That’s something that we’ve created, with groups like CAMpRA reporting clearly biased figures, and individual motorhomers and online groups proclaiming huge figures.

We’ve introduced the dubious figures into the discussion, instead of concentrating on the other benefits. Councils are not stupid, they clearly question what we’re saying, and all they see is their cash strapped budgets, local opposition, H&S requirement and the instances of unsocial behaviour, however rare.

It was fine back in the day when the numbers were small, and we weren’t raising these stories of how much we contribute. We just visited, enjoyed the stay and moved on. But the numbers have increased massively over the last few years, with some groups proclaiming how we're the saviours of places, while ignoring the real concerns that people have.

Obviously it wont get back to how it was; it will be interesting to see what the next few years bring.

I wouldn't like to comment on CAMpRA reporting biased figures as I haven't seen them but I do know that they have done some sterling work to get where we are today with Aires so I won't criticise them and certainly wouldn't like to be involved in undermining their efforts.

I agree that Councils are not (all) stupid but they do have to bow to their constituents, especially in places like St Andrews where there is a bit of a balance of power between the council and a few wealthy and influential residents. This being the case I do feel that sometimes they make decisions which may not be the right ones simply to appease a minority. And then some councillors are just plain corrupt! I don't think it's wrong to suggest though that we try to input into the local economy when we visit.

As for the future, yes it will be interesting and it is impossible to predict, the world changes so quickly these days. Hopefully I'll be able to continue to use pub stops Etc. We shall see.

 

[Fisherman]

I wouldn't like to comment on CAMpRA reporting biased figures as I haven't seen them but I do know that they have done some sterling work to get where we are today with Aires so I won't criticise them and certainly wouldn't like to be involved in undermining their efforts.

I agree that Councils are not (all) stupid but they do have to bow to their constituents, especially in places like St Andrews where there is a bit of a balance of power between the council and a few wealthy and influential residents. This being the case I do feel that sometimes they make decisions which may not be the right ones simply to appease a minority. And then some councillors are just plain corrupt! I don't think it's wrong to suggest though that we try to input into the local economy when we visit.

As for the future, yes it will be interesting and it is impossible to predict, the world changes so quickly these days. Hopefully I'll be able to continue to use pub stops Etc. We shall see.

St Andrews has the most expensive property in Scotland, on a par with London. The average price being just shy of £500,000. Even Edinburgh cannot compete with St Andrews. The fact that they could make some money from us (and they could) does not concern them.
I agree with your comments regarding CAMpRA Rob, they have done some remarkable work on our behalf, but obviously it seems to have upset some.

 

[Rolyan57]

I wouldn't like to comment on CAMpRA reporting biased figures as I haven't seen them but I do know that they have done some sterling work to get where we are today with Aires so I won't criticise them and certainly wouldn't like to be involved in undermining their efforts.

I agree that Councils are not (all) stupid but they do have to bow to their constituents, especially in places like St Andrews where there is a bit of a balance of power between the council and a few wealthy and influential residents. This being the case I do feel that sometimes they make decisions which may not be the right ones simply to appease a minority. And then some councillors are just plain corrupt! I don't think it's wrong to suggest though that we try to input into the local economy when we visit.

As for the future, yes it will be interesting and it is impossible to predict, the world changes so quickly these days. Hopefully I'll be able to continue to use pub stops Etc. We shall see.

Absolutely, not only don’t I undermine the work by CAMpRA, I actively support it (actively, not saying it online). I wish more did. They do great work.

However, it’s fair to say that when you tell motorhomers in advance that you’re collecting figures in spend in order to create a report to help persuade people to go down the CAMpRA route, it’s obvious that bias will occur. Both in the amount reported (even using receipts) and the fact that there will be a bias in those who choose to respond. Most people involved in the survey industry would recognise that bias and design the data collection accordingly.

It’s certainly not wrong to suggest that we input into the local economy, and I don’t think anyone has suggested that. However, I do think that some of the facts currently are ‘overstated’.

There are sadly some individuals that appear to dismiss all councils as corrupt and all decisions as a conspiracy. Whereas as you say, the main issue is that they bow to the locals (quite rightly in many instances). Some of these locals will have more influence then others.

I’m fairly sure pub stops in general will continue, and CAMpRA aires will continue to increase. We see more added weekly. Then there are the small spots, CLs and CSs etc. But I can foresee more kickbacks against car park and similar stopovers. No amount of us offering information on how much we spend will change that I’m afraid.

 

[JQB]

Also they haven't mentioned any mess, its misuse of the litter bins. A lot of people may not know that household rubbish shouldn't go in litter bins. Waste in a camper is household

Bonkers innit, get a takaway or fish and chips and eat it on the prom and put wrappers in the bins, fine tidy person. But eat in your van and put it in the bins it's missuse of bins? What a load od garbage. Lets face it councils don't want to pay to have bins emptied in the first place, extending emptying intervals etc.
It's simple the usual van haters on councils, hotel b&b airb&b and campsite owners.

 

[Robmac]

Bonkers innit, get a takaway or fish and chips and eat it on the prom and put wrappers in the bins, fine tidy person. But eat in your van and put it in the bins it's missuse of bins? What a load od garbage. Lets face it councils don't want to pay to have bins emptied in the first place, extending emptying intervals etc.
It's simple the usual van haters on councils, hotel b&b airb&b and campsite owners.

I think the objection is to campers putting a few days worth of litter - Ie. a small bin bag full in at a time which takes up a lot more room than your average takeaway wrappers?

 

[JQB]

I note the quotes come from Joshua Wells, the council's portfolio holder for inclusive economic growth.

How is it that economic growth is encouraged by prohibiting overnight parking?

Inclusive? By excluding vans? Council speaks with forked tongue.

 

[Fisherman]

It seems that some members of the public agree with some on here.

Fears motorhomes will avoid Lincoln over car park sleeping ban

City of Lincoln Council has prohibited it due to safety concerns

www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk