Another Short Sighted Council

I think the objection is to campers putting a few days worth of litter - Ie. a small bin bag full in at a time which takes up a lot more room than your average takeaway wrappers?
Stands to reason that if that were true many vans will have dumped rubbish in bins in the previous town and only have a small amount to dispose of. The council simply does not want to pay to mt the bins, simple as that. The fact that new rules will deter vanners even stopping there at all, and or like me refuse to spend any money there is not important to them it would seem. Very stick in the mud shorysighted biased people only looking at the bin emptying budget. Hopeless.
 
The council will not believe that all motorhomers spend on average £100 per visit, probably with good reason.

As Marie said, the council are firefighting on several fronts. So they look at the limited income this generates, balance it against the reports of misuse of bins and the H&S risk, and think it’s easier to enforce the existing TRO.

Bear in mind that it’s highly unlikely that any shop will ever close and link it directly to this, and they’ll never see a negative effect of this.

They don’t owe us anything, despite what some believe, and just like stopping the Christmas market they’ll think they’ve done the right thing for the area. It’s a shame but it’s not a conspiracy.
I still object to the short sighted penny pinching won't mt the bins mindset.
 
Stands to reason that if that were true many vans will have dumped rubbish in bins in the previous town and only have a small amount to dispose of. The council simply does not want to pay to mt the bins, simple as that. The fact that new rules will deter vanners even stopping there at all, and or like me refuse to spend any money there is not important to them it would seem. Very stick in the mud shorysighted biased people only looking at the bin emptying budget. Hopeless.

Not sure what you mean by that. If that were the case then the council of the previous town (if there was one) would object to them filling their bins?
 
I still object to the short sighted penny pinching won't mt the bins mindset.
The problem is that it’s just your opinion. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a perfectly valid opinion, but that’s all it is. You’ve no evidence to suggest that mindset is there or that it’s caused this decision.

The council have said that after listening to local opinion, they have concerns about the parking capacity, the health and safety risks and the misuse of bins. A thousand vans in 5 months will affect that to some degree. Many locals and councillors will agree with those issues and theirs is also a valid opinion.

A lot of these councils will genuinely wonder why vans can’t stay on designated sites and travel in. We all harp on about how we love these areas, and we’re the ones offering information about our spend (without being asked) yet the second we can’t stay in a car park, we take our bat home and insist we won’t stay. It comes across as peurile at best.

That will puzzle many and get us a certain reputation. Rather than dismiss these councils as corrupt, or inept, or biased etc., we need to work with groups like CAMpRA to show councils how we can work with them to get a win win.

That starts with us accepting that there isn’t a conspiracy against us and that the councils and locals are as sensible and caring as we are.
 
Rubbish disposal is a much wider issue than just in congested hotspots, however people choose to rock up to them. 🤷‍♀️

Same as public loos. There used to be a pretty decent infrastructure of public loos in the UK, at least in the bigger towns and cities, but that’s definitely no longer the case.

It’s all down to how some of the most basic needs of both locals and visitors are dealt with by local public authorities. And therein lies the root of your problem.

And, as with most other things in life, it’s down to budget and political will, both of which seem to have been in short supply for quite a long time 🤷‍♀️
 
I think anyone driving around the UK can see that councils do not want the cost of emptying bins or providing public toilets and many other things also.

Was a time that almost every lay by had bins that were emptied but many have now gone. Strangely people seem to complain about all the litter though.

Inept and or biased is a valid accusation to lay against most councils and government departments. When exactly did it change from being there to help the people?
 
I think anyone driving around the UK can see that councils do not want the cost of emptying bins or providing public toilets and many other things also.

Was a time that almost every lay by had bins that were emptied but many have now gone. Strangely people seem to complain about all the litter though.

Inept and or biased is a valid accusation to lay against most councils and government departments. When exactly did it change from being there to help the people?

Whenever I do see a lay by bin Neil it is usually overflowing and there is litter everywhere.
 
When we were allowed to have meets at St Andrews we bagged up our rubbish and the council came and collected it in the morning (by arrangement). We chatted with the collectors who were very friendly.

Unfortunately we aren't allowed to have meets there any more. :(
St Andrews may not have shut down West sands if , as I usually experienced , there were just the odd van scattered about .
When 50 - 100 vans suddenly took over the whole area it was a hardly a shocker when they clamped down .
 
Bring back the Victorians, at least they were public spirited enough to actually build all the places the councils got for nothing and are now closed or gone altogether.

Ricketts
 
Rubbish disposal is a much wider issue than just in congested hotspots, however people choose to rock up to them. 🤷‍♀️

Same as public loos. There used to be a pretty decent infrastructure of public loos in the UK, at least in the bigger towns and cities, but that’s definitely no longer the case.

It’s all down to how some of the most basic needs of both locals and visitors are dealt with by local public authorities. And therein lies the root of your problem.

And, as with most other things in life, it’s down to budget and political will, both of which seem to have been in short supply for quite a long time 🤷‍♀️
I blame this concept on the almost religious culture of lower taxation put forward by our politicians from all parties. This “competition “ to see who can do more for less has to end. And we are reaping the harvest that we all deserve with an NHS on its knees with long waiting lists, waiting hours for an ambulance, prisons so full we have to let out criminals before their already reduced sentences have been served, an infrastructure that is creaking at the seems, and I could go on and on.

Our country is struggling to provide the bare necessities of modern life, and we are all suffering due to this utter stupidity.
Yes we don’t provide as many public loos, or places to place our rubbish in, but these minor inconveniences are symptomatic of our troubled nation.

And what concerns me is how what is clearly unacceptable and dare I say abnormal, becomes both acceptable and normal in our world. Would we have accepted as my sister has to, being on a waiting list for three years waiting for a knee replacement, or waiting hours for an ambulance, and when arriving at the hospital queuing in that ambulance, waiting for entry to the hospital, then when finally gaining access to the hospital waiting for hours on a trolly before finally taking your last breath, because that is the unacceptable reality of what is going on right now. But it has become the new normal.

I think before complaining about what we all need to pay in taxes we should first take cognisance of what is going on around us. If we were all paying enough, would we be in such a state. Yes we can blame in efficiencies within our struggling systems, but there is a finite limit to this, and our systems were always inefficient to some degree, even in better times.

Up here we pay more in tax than any other part of the U.K., our council tax is higher, and our 42% yes 42% rate starts £7000 lower than the 40% rate in the rest of the U.K. we also pay 21% as the basic rate. But it’s not enough if we want what we need, and what some of us deserve, and getting things sorted will require some pain for years to come.
 
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St Andrews may not have shut down West sands if , as I usually experienced , there were just the odd van scattered about .
When 50 - 100 vans suddenly took over the whole area it was a hardly a shocker when they clamped down .

I don't think we had that many vans there but I could be wrong, but we didn't just take over, it was by arrangement.

As I recall though, there were still plenty of car parking spaces left for other visitors. I don't mind being banned though, apart from a meet it's not a place I would choose to go to.
 
Agree with most of what you say Bill.

EDIT: Thought better of it, overstepped forum rules.
Soz Phil.
 
Agree with most of what you say Bill.

EDIT: Thought better of it, overstepped forum rules.
Soz Phil.
My post refers to all politicians from all parties Ral.
I blame them all for what’s happened.
Totally avoiding politics is impossible.
I think so long as we avoid party political politics it should be ok.
But that’s for Phil to decide.
We all have our preferences, but we should at least try to remember what most on here voted for.
 
St Andrews may not have shut down West sands if , as I usually experienced , there were just the odd van scattered about .
When 50 - 100 vans suddenly took over the whole area it was a hardly a shocker when they clamped down .
The car park in St Andrews is so large it has two public toilets.
It could easily take over a thousand vehicles possibly a lot more.
It’s got to be one of, if not the largest car park in Scotland.
It’s also positioned well away from all housing.
Thirty or forty vans would have presented no issues so long as most behaved appropriately.
But there’s a massive difference between clamping down, and and completely banning, particularly in a region that is otherwise very supportive of us.
I can assure you that what they did in St Andrews is resented by other parts of the region, who feel that St Andrews is a place apart from the rest of Fife, when it should be otherwise.
They could have set a limit and charged for overnighting, and provided elsan points outside one or each of both public toilets. And before we get the usual they can’t afford it, it’s one of the best funded towns in the whole of the U.K.
What this all comes down to has nothing to do with funding, or lack of space.
They could have made a profit from us as others like Findhorn have done, but they chose to do otherwise.
But on the bright side, I think that things are going to change, I have heard from good authority that they are re thinking what they did, and it’s looking likely what I have just outlined may come to fruition, fingers crossed. 🤞
 
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I don't think we had that many vans there but I could be wrong, but we didn't just take over, it was by arrangement.

As I recall though, there were still plenty of car parking spaces left for other visitors. I don't mind being banned though, apart from a meet it's not a place I would choose to go to.
There was a lot and it led to a ban .
There was a thread about it at the time . I do remember thinking that was West sands fekked for the rest of us .
Massive numbers of any group descending on a place cause resentment.
Doesn't necessarily mean ban was right but it was inevitable
 
There was a lot and it led to a ban .
There was a thread about it at the time . I do remember thinking that was West sands fekked for the rest of us .
Massive numbers of any group descending on a place cause resentment.
Doesn't necessarily mean ban was right but it was inevitable

It's odd how we are viewed though.

The blokes who collected the bags said it had been a pleasure having us there. They had coffees with us and a good yarn. I seem to recall we had a whip round for them on the last day.

The locals though, you could almost feel the resentment as they walked past (some of them anyway) yet we had given them no reason to feel that way apart from just being there enjoying ourselves.
 
We should get some T-Shirts printed up for visiting these backward-thinking towns.

Suggestions for wording invited
 
It's odd how we are viewed though.

The blokes who collected the bags said it had been a pleasure having us there. They had coffees with us and a good yarn. I seem to recall we had a whip round for them on the last day.

The locals though, you could almost feel the resentment as they walked past (some of them anyway) yet we had given them no reason to feel that way apart from just being there enjoying ourselves.
I seem to remember you or someone else who was there saying that a passer bye stated she felt threatened by you all Rob.
 

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