A frame in europe

I use an A-frame on many occasions not with my motorhome as I have no towbar on that now.
But I move a few cars about with my 4x4 and I've been a fair few places with it in the uk with no trouble
At all and driven past the law with it plenty of times too.
All I get is loads of folk looking as they must be fascinated how it tows with nobody in the car behind me.
Mine is a big heavy duty one but I have often seen flimsy ones that bend and break easily
I've also seen lots of off road drivers taking their off road vehicles with A-frames
And I've also seen the AA use them
 
My point is, there is nothing to stop a manufacturer or owner taking an A framed car and getting it certified as a trailer as long as it pass's the test. With a cert from the UK agency that combo becomes a trailer. The only question is, will/can any manufacturer get one throu the test, else it is illegal not just in France/Spain but also UK.
 
colinmd said:
My point is, there is nothing to stop a manufacturer or owner taking an A framed car and getting it certified as a trailer as long as it pass's the test. With a cert from the UK agency that combo becomes a trailer. The only question is, will/can any manufacturer get one throu the test, else it is illegal not just in France/Spain but also UK.
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This brings us back to the government link I posted earlier https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/towing-equipment . As you can see, in the government's view an a-frame attached to a car becomes a trailer. However, this has never been tested in court and until such time as it is the legal situation remains unclear. Thus the governments of France, Spain etc are able to say that it isn't legal in the UK and therefore they are entitled to refuse to allow them on their roads. Whichever way round you look at the problem, you keep coming back to the same answer - nobody will know for certain whether it is legal or not until it is the subject of a court case. As things stand at the moment, it is in everybody's interest (except the companies that make a-frames and the owners of them!) to allow the confusion to continue, so unless you are willing to spend a fortune on legal costs the soundest advice is not to drive with an a-frame in Europe - unless you are willing to face the potential consequences.
 
a frame towing in europe

years ago there used to be a tab that could be moved over manually to stop the inertia system from operating during reversing could this system still be used ??
 
Yes , indeed - that is what I have been saying all along. The interpretation of whether or not it is legal rests with the individual country. If, however, it had been tested in the English courts and proved legal, then that would take precendence under the EU regulations on construction and use.
 
I reverse mine no problem, as someone said you cannot reverse as accurately as you can with a caravan but the law doesn't state that you have to (IMO), a lot of drivers cannot reverse a trailer and it is very difficult reversing a small trailer with a motorhome because you cannot see it until it has turned too much, I reverse my car better than I ever did a trailer
 
It has the normal overrun braking system, when you reverse the car gets pushed backwards very easily and doesn't apply the brakes, (I have never tried reversing uphill though), the only problem you get is that the front wheels can turn the wrong way and the car locks up, I practised for a long time in empty car parks to get it right, I know the law says a braked trailer must have auto reverse brakes but until somebody is taken to Court and prosecuted I will continue to use mine in the UK tenuously clinging to the belief they must be auto reverse otherwise I couldn't do it:D
 
tezza33 said:
It has the normal overrun braking system, when you reverse the car gets pushed backwards very easily and doesn't apply the brakes, (I have never tried reversing uphill though), the only problem you get is that the front wheels can turn the wrong way and the car locks up, I practised for a long time in empty car parks to get it right, I know the law says a braked trailer must have auto reverse brakes but until somebody is taken to Court and prosecuted I will continue to use mine in the UK tenuously clinging to the belief they must be auto reverse otherwise I couldn't do it:D
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Or have you got the cable slack enough so as to not apply the brakes when you reverse ?
 
Wooie1958 said:
Or have you got the cable slack enough so as to not apply the brakes when you reverse ?
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Well it obviously isn't tight because it doesn't need to be but it has to work going forward so I have set it carefully, I know it doesn't compress the hitch because I have stood and watched it while my Wife reverses, there is a very small movement if you reverse slowly, I have met a lot of others who can reverse as well, it is only the front wheels going the wrong way when reversing around a corner that gives you problems but it is still possible if done slowly
 
a frame towing in europe

i tried reversing mine today on a slight uphill and the wheels turned in a lock and i nearly stalled the mh
 
Compo said:
i tried reversing mine today on a slight uphill and the wheels turned in a lock and i nearly stalled the mh
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Practice on a level empty car park and just try going straight back until you have got the hang of that, any slight movement will turn the wheels but once you can go straight it is easier to get the hang of turning corners, it is still easier to try not to get in the situation where you have to reverse though;)
 
I am not disagreeing with you about the emergency situation David but there are thousands of drivers towing trailers and caravans who cannot reverse them so the same emergency situation would catch them out, I have backed over a kerb unintentionally without the brakes coming on but even so my van is powerful enough to push my car backwards with the brakes on if need be (I know because I forgot to release the handbrake and take it out of gear once:() but I have never needed to and I started using an A frame in 1988 so I haven't had a problem in over 30yrs
 
From the current C&CC magazine:

"Club members are being advised not to use an A-frame to tow a car in Europe, following guidance from the DfT.
The 1968 Vienna convention on road traffic says a citizen of one state may use a vehicle in another state as long as it is legal in his or her own country. However, the DfT says the assumed protections offered by the Treaty do not cover A-frames because they post-date it and are therefore outside its scope.
The Club's Technical Team has been told the UK doesn't intend to implement recent changes to EU light-trailer brakes regulations. This means that A-frames will remain acceptable within the UK.
Following this clarification, the Club strongly recommends that if members wish to tow a car behind a motorhome in mainland Europe then it must be on a trailer."

Hope this helps
John
 
a frame towing in europe

hi all thanks for your thoughts and advice on the subject have now purchased a trailer to use on European tours and am going to use the a frame in uk were
i can argue with plod in my native tongue if i need to, best of both worlds i feel.
compo
 
A-FRAME in europe

we have just had a A- frame fitted in grimsby by Towbars-2-Towbars, the electric brakeing system.
Graham the founder and designer off the system told us out off all the three and half thousand cars that he has put this system onto and many have used it abroad and give him feedback, the only country
that has given problems is SPAIN. there have been a handful of incidents with spanish police giveing out fines and forcing the driver to uncouple the system and making the passenger drive the car and follow behind.
spain has not signed up to the charter governing this area like the rest of euro . make sure your passenger has a full driving licence and is on the insurance policy.
regards billyhilly :wave:
 
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