Yes, the one about refilling 907 Camping Gaz bottles.

Jelloman

Guest
Hello,

Given the scandalous prices for the minuscule amount of gas in a 907 bottle, I'd like to show you a rig I've come up for DIY refill. I propose using the gravity decanting method, as seen on the net.Useful and constructive criticism always welcome.
Now all you folks that get nervous and upset by this kind of thing better look away.

Refill set up.jpg​


apart from the camping gaz adapter all other parts from http://www.bes.co.uk/products/063.asp

P.S. Please resist the urge to tell me how I'm going to die and take countless innocent lives with me. I am a grown up and even have a note from my mum.
 
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Works o.k. for me and 1/2 of Africa

You show a pol propane fitting..
I have only used butane as a donor bottle.Depends on the appliance or regulator you are going to use on the 907.Would work with almost any depends how fussy you are.

Can take a couple of hours to refill.(has to force air out of the empty bottle into the donor)
I let the donor bottle expell any air in the pipes befor connecting to the 907.

DO NOT FILL TO THE TOP ONLY 3/4 OR LESS OR IT WILL END IN TEARS.

YOU REALISE YOU HAVE OPENED A HORNETS NEST WITH THIS ONE!!!
 
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hi . that system works fine. i use a piece of orange high pressure hose and either butane both ends or swap one for the propane fitting. worked well since february 1998. its even got the date on. hee hee. not much use in most of africa . better to exchasnge bottles for 60pence. could be a quid now . when i used it to go around africa i had the propane 19kg bottle on the roof of the vw made it esiaer to tip. got right down in maroc then found it was so cheap to exchange never bothered from then on. got as far as gambia then came back. bottle never blew up or exploded . bought a maroc bottle for further use in the years after . at the time was 3quid including the gas in 1999. or 45 dirham. still 45 dirham but thats 4.50 quid now.
if you use the camping to butane fitting you can add an adapter to get it to a female pol fitting then an ebay adaptor to fill at the pumps .
low flying remarks on the horizon. hard hats being fitted . cheers alan.
 
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Real wildcamper !!

Spoken like a true wildcamper.!! Self- sufficient
 
I'd be inclined to use a set of old manual scales to make sure that the cartridge was not filled beyond 80% liquid capacity. Though I think underfilling maybe more of a problem as pressure is equalised between the big bottle and the cartridge.
 
hi .yes scales are the answer i use a set of spring balance scales . reimo have them in their catologue just for this . it may suprise many but you can get bottles identical to our blue camping gas but red in some countries they contain propane. weighing is always the safest bet. but dont worry underfilling doesnt cause a problem . it just runs out quicker. . keep the bottom bottle cool pour boiling hot water on the top one helps get the gas out. .i do have a manual lpg gas pump used to empty the last bit out. it is made by krugg in the states . bought it off a yank in the 70,s was usefull for filling the lpg tank in my car in the 70,s -80,s when lpg wasnt so common . they are still made . you do see modern pumps on ebay sometimes . havent used mine for a while but its a goodnbit of kit . bit like a turffer winch system. there are systems for filling the screw on tin containers but i must say i have never done those. its all on the web. but there is a limit . i try to push mine but ..... i have ran uk appliances on butane propane using both 28and 37mbr regs i cant tell the differance . it did bother me at first but i was told it makes no differance and it does appear it doesnt. purists of course will say it does . but if you are deep in africa or half way to india you use what you can get . amazingly it works. but always bewarey do take care . if in doubt dont try it. perhaps i shopuld say i used to make my own lpg car conversions in the early days and have always experimented all my life . i realise many havent ,wont . and maybe shouldnt.
cheers alan.
 
rickboy said:
Can take a couple of hours to refill.(has to force air out of the empty bottle into the donor)
Click to expand...

Just to be pedantic the 'air' in the empty bottle should be gas, which is compressed into liquid as the bottle fills. At the same time the liquid gas in the donor bottle expands into gas to fill the void.

Anyway good money saving idea if done in a well ventilated area and the bottle not overfilled as you say.

Would be useful to identify the fittings required.

found this link on this website

http://www.gasequipmentdirect.co.uk/Store/Category/Regulators.aspx?gclid=COuAmen30KoCFQJO4Qod33CTzA
 
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Just back from re-filling my flogas 11 kg and 2 x calor 6 kgs.
72 p / litre, and the garage man said fill them yourself as he was busy.
PM me for garage location nr Chorley Lancs.
Allen
 
hi, bernard had a quick look on the site you mention but cant see what you need . google bes .. they hav a catalogue ,on page 61 camping gaz cylinder valve camping gaz cylinder on base toaccept butane regulator (for example p/n 8807 on page51... you want a clip on adaptor to butane reg ex 8807. then can you get two tail ends to screw on the lh butane threads and a length of high pressure hose. couple of clips away you go . i also have one propane tail for filling bottles from a propane bottle . using the big pol lh propane fitting . possibly a good camping shop or motor home accesory shop weill have al the bits . they dont like to be told what its for but usually have it all.
cheers alan
 
vwalan said:
hi, bernard had a quick look on the site you mention but cant see what you need . google bes .. they hav a catalogue ,on page 61 camping gaz cylinder valve camping gaz cylinder on base toaccept butane regulator (for example p/n 8807 on page51... you want a clip on adaptor to butane reg ex 8807. then can you get two tail ends to screw on the lh butane threads and a length of high pressure hose. couple of clips away you go . i also have one propane tail for filling bottles from a propane bottle . using the big pol lh propane fitting . possibly a good camping shop or motor home accesory shop weill have al the bits . they dont like to be told what its for but usually have it all.
cheers alan
Click to expand...

Hi Alan,

Many Thanks for looking. Unfortunately I get quite different items (electronic gas testers) on those page numbers - might be different computer display properties displaying different number of items per page.
If you could identify the part numbers I could find them. The only one I have got so far is;
8807 Butane nut x hose nozzle WAS £3.09 NOW £2.69 - click here for web link: LPG Low Pressure Regulators (Single Stage)
 
hi .bernard trypart no..8888camping gas valve .thats for the 907 bottle to adapt to take a butanr screw reg.
then you need something like part no. 16642 but this one also must adapt to butane reg. its a clipon 21mm to old butane lh thread . the one i quot is a different thread . then you need two butane tails to fit the adaptors . if its too hard call 07971962361 maybe talking is easier . cheers alan.
 
vwalan said:
hi .yes scales are the answer i use a set of spring balance scales .

weighing is always the safest bet. but dont worry underfilling doesnt cause a problem . it just runs out quicker.

i have ran uk appliances on butane propane using both 28and 37mbr regs i cant tell the differance . it did bother me at first but i was told it makes no differance and it does appear it doesnt. purists of course will say it does .
cheers alan.
Click to expand...

Indeed the gas companies use scales too. We sometimes get overfilled bottles from them the reason is the residue from the refining process especially in older bottles.

You can tell because the flame hovers over the hob ( the liquid gas has not gassed enough) We just run the hob for a couple of minutes and all settles down.

On regulators, when we issue certificates we allow a tolerance of Plus/minus 5 mbr on the 28 / 37 mbr figures you quote.

Our butane regulators were locking up on average at 30 /31 mbr; So you can see you are within a nats whisker of the 32 mbr accepted tolerance for propane. The only problems I would foresee is if you have a faulty regulator. I had a butane locking up at 42 mbr far too much for butane.

On some newer vans now, I have seen it on hymers they are fitting 30 mbr regulators so you can run butane and propane.

Channa
 
hi, germany used to have two systems 30mbr and 50mbr . . mind thats only the outward pressure . both butane and propane are above that as a in going pressure . not quite sure what you mean about locking up. i fill the gaz bottles regularly with propane and run with a 27mbr reg . a standard camping gaz reg.. normally i do use ther old butane regs .but do sometimes use a propane 37mbr on my red propane bottle . cant tell any differance . i do know the gas lights prefer butane to propane though .much brighter on butane . regardless of what reg i use . try all sorts see if it works better .
 
vwalan said:
hi, germany used to have two systems 30mbr and 50mbr . . mind thats only the outward pressure . both butane and propane are above that as a in going pressure .

not quite sure what you mean about locking up. .


i do know the gas lights prefer butane to propane though .much brighter on butane . regardless of what reg i use . try all sorts see if it works better .
Click to expand...

In italy we have variable regulators :rolleyes2:

By locking up I mean testing the pressure system side of the regulator using a manometer. This tells you at what mbr the regulator is allowing the gas to flow, and would indicate a faulty regulator if too low or high as explained last post.

The light thing I suspect is down to the fact butane has a higher calorific value than propane hence the reason propane regulators run at a higher pressure. To deliver the same bang for buck or thereabouts at the appliance

Channa
 
hi, thanks for that clears it up a bit . yes i understand about the butane being more dense thats why you get more wt. in a bottle.
i also have varible regs . you can get them all over in morocco, good for adjusting the pressure if up in the mountains or down by the sea . did have a big old propane one a few yearas ago but let it go with a camper . can be handy for fine tuning . mind they tell me in north africa they use alot of pentane in the gas . it burns good in the hotter climates not so good up in northern europe . dont notice it here in the summer seems ok. but then similar temps to winter there. all good stuff though . cheers alan.
 
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Ironically Alan, I was think of this thread today.

My colleague is an air con engineer and we got called to a job that required the unit re gassing........ and guess what all done with scales:rolleyes2:

Actually all quite high tech stuff, very strict rules becaus the gas is a cfc and absolutely no leakage from tha appliance is allowed whatsoever.

Channa
 
Jelloman said:
Hello,

Given the scandalous prices for the minuscule amount of gas in a 907 bottle, I'd like to show you a rig I've come up for DIY refill. I propose using the gravity decanting method, as seen on the net.Useful and constructive criticism always welcome.
Now all you folks that get nervous and upset by this kind of thing better look away.




P.S. Please resist the urge to tell me how I'm going to die and take countless innocent lives with me. I am a grown up and even have a note from my mum.
Click to expand...

Well as Brownhills have just increased the price of their 907 refills from £19 to £24 :scared: I'm having a look at the BES catalogue, but its a little confusing when they use abbreviations and few illustrations.
Does anyone know what is the difference between a S/T nut - item 12649, and a N/T nut item 12645 please ?
link but might not be the right page, so may need to enter the item number into their search engine - LPG Hose & Pigtail Assemblies
I found an illustration like the propane POL connector, presumably its item 8885 - nut and tail?

(I wondered if just the nut could be used with male hose end item 12651 or 12646 ?)

I think I found the camping gaz valve item 8888 ?
 
hi. you may not find the ready made hose for this job. make your own from high pressure gas hose and some ends . i change one end from butane to propanr depending on the bottle i,m filling from.
i have their catalogue in book form here . i cant see the same clipon valve i use . but look on the caravan regulator and fittings page item 16642 its a butane clip on but to a w20 thread on hose .
possibly items 16639 propane
and item 16640 butane will be the ready made hoses you need to join to a different camping gasadaptor item 16643. there on page 54 in my catalogue .
i try to not use the w20 thread but use lh thread butane fitting . give a call its easier talking than keep writting . cheers alan.
 
Thanks for that Alan.
looks like 16643 camping gaz adaptor, 16639 propane hose
I got this info from the safety sheets on the Calor website;
Propane: – at 15 deg C vapor pressure 7.5 bar, density 0.512 (water = 1.000)
Butane: – at 15 deg C vapor pressure 2 bar, density 0.575 (water = 1.000)

going by that
907 contains 2.72 kg of Butane, same volume of propane would be 2.42kg which is 0.3kg or 0.66 pounds less.

My 907 cylinders have their ratings stamped on the base;
But 3.00kg
Prop 2.50kg
PE 30 bar
 
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