Yes, the one about refilling 907 Camping Gaz bottles.

[Channa]

That may all be fine on a new bottle, if I were you, I would underplay it slightly on the weight stakes on the basis residue will be at the bottom of the bottles.

consider butane and propane are by products of oil refinining a stenching agent so it smells is added. there will be some residue which needs to be accounted for

Channa

 

[maingate]

I hope you lot are not making IED's for the next riot. :scared: :scared:

 

[rickboy]

We should be

We should be ,to stick underneath them,and that would be a waste of something good!

 

[Bernard Jones]

That may all be fine on a new bottle, if I were you, I would underplay it slightly on the weight stakes on the basis residue will be at the bottom of the bottles.

consider butane and propane are by products of oil refinining a stenching agent so it smells is added. there will be some residue which needs to be accounted for

Channa

Certainly Yes. I am working on the weight of the new cylinders I have bought from Camping Gaz, less half a kilo for propane, then shake the cylinder to check you can feel the liquid sloshing about inside.

I mut admit I don't know whether the 30 bar stamped on the base of the 907 cylinders is test pressure or working pressure?
But in any case thats still 4 times the pressure of the gas inside.

 

[Deleted member 3011]

 

[Channa]

Blind leading the blind Tony you cynic.

I personally wouldnt try and refill a bottle but if someone should choose too so be it (however I would be grateful of prior warning so I can vacate the vicinity )


Bernard the 30 bar stamped I think you will find is the tolerance of the bottle Butane is certainly nowhere near that pressure under normal circumstances;

Channa

 

[Jelloman]

Rumours of my demise have been greatly exaggerated

My first attempt at refilling a 907 cylinder.

​

Sorry for the delay on keeping up with this post. I must stress that it is not due to the lack of WiFi in the burns unit OR me having to learn how to type using only my arse, I've been busy that's all. Tried out my filling rig the other day. Connected it all up, supply bottle upside down, purged out air first AND - huge intake of breath - it filled the 907 bottle up nice and quickly. Aww, I know some of you out there were worried, but you can keep the flowers and fruit. If done outside it is completely safe. Do wear working gloves as propane is a wee bit on the cold side. Have a ciggie only after you've finished.

Watch out for my next post as I show you how to use a sharp knife without cutting yourself!

 

[Bernard Jones]

Bernard the 30 bar stamped I think you will find is the tolerance of the bottle Butane is certainly nowhere near that pressure under normal circumstances;

Channa

Calor safety sheet says Butane is 2 bar, and propane 7.5 bar. So I was concerned as to whether a butane cylinder would take the pressure of propane.
But my regulator says max input pressure 26 bar, and the 907 container is stamped 30 bar. I don't know whether the 30 bar is safe working pressure or test pressure? But either way we clearly have plenty of safety margin.

The exchange 907 cylinder I got at the hardware shop in Albir (Spain) burns much better at low temperatures than camping gaz, so I can only guess they have put propane in it.

It also cost 11 euros, instead of the £24 in rip off Britain.

 

[Bernard Jones]

purged out air first

I don't know what you mean?

 

[Footpad]

Pressure equalisation

I'd be inclined to use a set of old manual scales to make sure that the cartridge was not filled beyond 80% liquid capacity. Though I think underfilling maybe more of a problem as pressure is equalised between the big bottle and the cartridge.

I always thought the pressure in one of these cylinders was fixed by the pressure required to liquefy the gas.

As gas is drawn off the pressure drops and more gas boils off to replace that used until the proper pressure is reached.

Hence the pressure is constant (ish) until the last of the liquid gas boils off and your cylinder is to all intents and purposes empty.

 

[maingate]

All bottles should only be refilled (with liquid gas) to 80%. This is to leave a small volume for gas. This prevents liquified gas getting into the pipeline and reaching an appliance. This is not necessary for LPG tanks fitted to cars or mobile plant as it is a different system altogether.

What puzzles me is that when I have tried to refill a cigarette lighter from a (pressurised) aerosol can, I am lucky to get the lighter half full of gas before it stops. :sad:

 

[Bernard Jones]

All bottles should only be refilled (with liquid gas) to 80%. This is to leave a small volume for gas. This prevents liquified gas getting into the pipeline and reaching an appliance.:

Or more importantly expanding and bursting the container

Perhaps your cigarette lighter has a different type (and therefore pressure) of gas than your refill?

Might help to use up all the gas then try to refill it?

 

[ArenqueRojo]

Might help to use up all the gas then try to refill it?

Before you fill the lighter, vent all the remaining gas. It will fill much more easily. Even half full can be vented of gas (not liquid) and you can carry on filling till there is no gas only liquid. Try it. I have no idea why this works...
Patrick

 

[Tbear]

All bottles should only be refilled (with liquid gas) to 80%. This is to leave a small volume for gas. This prevents liquified gas getting into the pipeline and reaching an appliance. This is not necessary for LPG tanks fitted to cars or mobile plant as it is a different system altogether.

What puzzles me is that when I have tried to refill a cigarette lighter from a (pressurised) aerosol can, I am lucky to get the lighter half full of gas before it stops. :sad:

Hi Maingate,

I think it down to temperature. When the gas in the lighter compresses it warms up. When the liquid in the lighter evaperates it cools therefore you have a temp difference so a back pressure builds up. Try putting lighter in deepfreezer for a couple of mins.

Richard.

 

[Bernard Jones]

Hi Maingate,

I think it down to temperature. When the gas in the lighter compresses it warms up. When the liquid in the lighter evaperates it cools therefore you have a temp difference so a back pressure builds up. Try putting lighter in deepfreezer for a couple of mins.

Richard.

I hadn't thought of that. Now you mention it I think thats the answer, and explains why the cylinder is quicker to fill if its colder than the donor cylinder.

 

[Jelloman]

I don't know what you mean?

Simply put, you open up the valve on the supply bottle, then quickly open and shut the valve to the 907 cylinder so liquid propane pushes out the air in the pipework. That way when you connect the 907 cylinder and open both valves only liquid propane comes through the setup.

 

[Bernard Jones]

Simply put, you open up the valve on the supply bottle, then quickly open and shut the valve to the 907 cylinder so liquid propane pushes out the air in the pipework. That way when you connect the 907 cylinder and open both valves only liquid propane comes through the setup.

Ah, Good point, Yes.

 

[Bernard Jones]

Success

Well item 16643 (£8.51) does the job very well. It has an on off tap and a butterfly screw on arrangement that makes it by far the easiest way to fit the hose.
I then used hose 17802 (£6.16) and item 17917 (£6.99) to connect it to a Calor Patio Gas 13kg cylinder because thats the one I happen to have.
But a Calor propane cylinder would be cheaper, and would only require item 16852 (£9.02) with the above 16643 (£8.51)
I stood the 907 cylinder on scales to be sure I did not overfill it and was surprised to find it filled from empty to about 75% full in only 5 minutes. This is much faster than the times I have seen quoted elsewhere. Perhaps this is because I used a longer hose (1500mm) and consequently had a greater hight differential between the cylinders. (also makes it easier to connect them up) Or perhaps its because the camping gaz adaptor I used (item 16643) has a wider bore, so the liquid gas flows more freely, I don't know. But that can only be a good thing since it only takes 5 minutes I am not tempted to go away and leave it so it becomes overfilled.

 

[cooljules]

Well item 16643 (£8.51) does the job very well. It has an on off tap and a butterfly screw on arrangement that makes it by far the easiest way to fit the hose.
I then used hose 17802 (£6.16) and item 17917 (£6.99) to connect it to a Calor Patio Gas 13kg cylinder because thats the one I happen to have.
But a Calor propane cylinder would be cheaper, and would only require item 16852 (£9.02) with the above 16643 (£8.51)
I stood the 907 cylinder on scales to be sure I did not overfill it and was surprised to find it filled from empty to about 75% full in only 5 minutes. This is much faster than the times I have seen quoted elsewhere. Perhaps this is because I used a longer hose (1500mm) and consequently had a greater hight differential between the cylinders. (also makes it easier to connect them up) Or perhaps its because the camping gaz adaptor I used (item 16643) has a wider bore, so the liquid gas flows more freely, I don't know. But that can only be a good thing since it only takes 5 minutes I am not tempted to go away and leave it so it becomes overfilled.

but just enough time to have a cig ;-)

 

[Paul Sharples]

At long last!

Well item 16643 (£8.51) does the job very well. It has an on off tap and a butterfly screw on arrangement that makes it by far the easiest way to fit the hose.
I then used hose 17802 (£6.16) and item 17917 (£6.99) to connect it to a Calor Patio Gas 13kg cylinder because thats the one I happen to have.
But a Calor propane cylinder would be cheaper, and would only require item 16852 (£9.02) with the above 16643 (£8.51)
I stood the 907 cylinder on scales to be sure I did not overfill it and was surprised to find it filled from empty to about 75% full in only 5 minutes. This is much faster than the times I have seen quoted elsewhere. Perhaps this is because I used a longer hose (1500mm) and consequently had a greater hight differential between the cylinders. (also makes it easier to connect them up) Or perhaps its because the camping gaz adaptor I used (item 16643) has a wider bore, so the liquid gas flows more freely, I don't know. But that can only be a good thing since it only takes 5 minutes I am not tempted to go away and leave it so it becomes overfilled.

Thanks to all of you that have contributed to this thread. My wife and are sick of paying the exorbitant refill prices demanded by the Camping Gaz outlets Now we will keep our 907's topped up with Calor propane from a large donor bottle using the fittings advised. Good work all:bow:!!

PS
A quick question:

I believe Campingaz normally fill the 907's with butane. Will it be OK to re-fill with Calor propane as suggested (I don't know the difference between the two gasses) and will it work on the Campingaz stove we have?

Thanks in anticipation!