Michelin Camper Tyres

[Markd]

It's 'worse' than that, I've also just had a online chat, they don't make a suitable campervan tyre as fitted to my van, in fact nobody does as the CP specs don't allow the tyres to be made strong enough in 215/75-16 to take the 2400kg axle loads. I knew this before going online, but thought I'd try, they ended up offering the Cross Climates for all season use, but claimed they where not suitable for motorhome use.

You'll have to go up to 225-75-16 to get the load rating, they are only 5mm wider on each side and a so should fit on the rear (presumably that's your 2.4T axle) without any major issues.
I have an Alko axle and had to tie back the handbrake cables.
No problems about changing gear ratios on the rear axle of course.
I do have to admit to a slight cock up in that I ordered the tyres online with Kwik Fit and they'd fitted them before I realised that I'd managed to order standard rather than Camping - doh! The availability varies so if using KF (prices online are v competitive) may need to check back a couple of times - voice of inexperience speaking
Having said that they are a 10 ply rating and have performed fine. However their max pressure is lower than CP tyre - 85 rather than 90 if I remember correctly.

 

[colinm]

You'll have to go up to 225-75-16 to get the load rating, they are only 5mm wider on each side and a so should fit on the rear (presumably that's your 2.4T axle) without any major issues.
I have an Alko axle and had to tie back the handbrake cables.
No problems about changing gear ratios on the rear axle of course.
I do have to admit to a slight cock up in that I ordered the tyres online with Kwik Fit and they'd fitted them before I realised that I'd managed to order standard rather than Camping - doh! The availability varies so if using KF (prices online are v competitive) may need to check back a couple of times - voice of inexperience speaking
Having said that they are a 10 ply rating and have performed fine. However their max pressure is lower than CP tyre - 85 rather than 90 if I remember correctly.

Yes I know I would have to fit different size tyres to have 'Motorhome tyres', but as the original tyres are not CP and I've used standard C tyres on campervans for decades with no problems I'm not about to change now, particularly if I would have different tyres front to rear.

 

[Markd]

Sorry - that detail passed me by (or more likely I passed it) earlier in thread.
I'm prepared to believe that there are construction differences between the two Michelin tyres but so far haven't really noticed anything on the road - but then nobody really tests a motorhome's handling to the limit - do they?
I think I may yet succumb to CP on the front on the basis of stiffer construction aiding initial turn in and cornering stability - but without back to back testing I'll never know!
I take your point about different tyres front and rear but I'm happy with that as I won't be swapping them about and I'm going for a high load van tyre of smaller section for the spare as a get me home measure.

 

[Sharpie]

I really don't get this. What exactly is the difference between say a white van,loaded up with a couple of pallets of bricks, or concrete slabs, or hippo sacks of building materials, driven hard and fast, and a camper used sedately ?

Or a van fitted out with racking and tools right up to to max. weight , such as the one my nephew has for work for United Utilities, and they have a fleet of them, I think he said they each cost £80,000, that's without VAT, It is a Sprinter and it is fully loaded all the time to the max. I think something like 4.5 tonnes, actually it would be nice to get a bit more stuff in as well but they can't. That doesn't have special tyres, just the ones the fleet manager chooses, and it does a lot of miles, far more than almost any camper might do in a decade. And has to go out in all conditions, when there is an emergency callout it will often be in extreme weather, and the utility companies call on each other for help in a real crisis, he might have to drive say 300 miles having got a call out at midnight to supervise the work and also muck in himself. Then back again.

He hopes to buy it from them when it is retired after I think after three years, they are offered to the employees first before they go to auction. and make it into his own camper. The racking and tools would have been taken out and put into a new one, it is almost a personal vehicle, very few others get to drive it, and he is meticulous not to abuse it, in anticipation.

My neighbour is an ambulance driver and those also run at max. weight, all the time, no secret-sauce tyres on them either and at times they get driven extremely hard and fast and make extreme maneuvres,to get past the traffic, lights flashing and sirens blasting. He's never concerned himself about whether the tyres were up to the job, more important things on his mind, a matter of life or death where every minute might make a difference.

What is so different about motorhome usage, and what is this special "CP" requirement, because I can't find out anything about it, and I have done a little looking and found no information whatsoever.

 

[Markd]

I don't know whether motorhomes do need specific tyres but I do believe that those sold as such are different to standard tyres.
Maybe the sidewalls are stiffer and are better able to cope with being parked up for ling periods?

 

[barge1914]

The Agilis Camper Tyres do have stiffened side walls. However the Agilis Crossclimate Tyres also are claimed to have reinforced side walls as these are intended for commercial vans.

 

[maingate]

There must be some difference with Michelin CP tyres but whether it's limited to a different mould with the CP and Camping who knows.
Personally I don't think even Michelin are that cynical and that there probably structural and compound differences.
Certainly the CP tyres have a higher max pressure allowance than basic C tyres.

Are you sure about the max preessure on Michelins?

I have Agilis CP on the front axle because they are M & S and give better grip on grass etc. I have Agilis Commercial on the rear 2 axles because they are non drive and each axle is only rated at 1500 Kg max. The max pressure is the same on both.

 

[Markd]

I'll check later - but thinking I'd be getting CP I asked Michelin for a pressure and the figure they gave was more than on the C tyre and KwikFit understandably wouldn't exceed that.

 

[Nabsim]

Sounds like I may have been lucky that there were no Michelin tyres suitable for my van. This all sounds complicated lol

 

[mark61]

Sounds like I may have been lucky that there were no Michelin tyres suitable for my van. This all sounds complicated lol

Easy for me too, my last 6 or 7 sets have all been the same brand. Not Michelin but owned by Michelin.

 

[campervanannie]

Well reading this I am totally confused I have Michelin Agilis tyre on my Rapido so are these correct or not ??? It’s what it had on when I bought it so I replaced 2 like for like about a year ago and I need the other 2 replacing this mot.

 

[Markd]

You may have if they say Camping after Agilis and have CP in the size marking.
Jus Agilis and C are a Van tyre.

 

[mark61]

Well reading this I am totally confused I have Michelin Agilis tyre on my Rapido so are these correct or not ??? It’s what it had on when I bought it so I replaced 2 like for like about a year ago and I need the other 2 replacing this mot.

Who knows, but according to Michelin, they only recommend the the Agilis Camping tyre for a MH because "they can take the weight day and night", as I was told yesterday by Michelin. I really have no idea what that means, like the rest of the Agilis range can only take the weight day or night, but not both.

 

[campervanannie]

Who knows, but according to Michelin, they only recommend the the Agilis Camping tyre for a MH because "they can take the weight day and night", as I was told yesterday by Michelin. I really have no idea what that means, like the rest of the Agilis range can only take the weight day or night, but not both.

Well that’s lucky

 

[maingate]

Are you sure about the max preessure on Michelins?

I have Agilis CP on the front axle because they are M & S and give better grip on grass etc. I have Agilis Commercial on the rear 2 axles because they are non drive and each axle is only rated at 1500 Kg max. The max pressure is the same on both.

Just double checked and I was mistaken. The Agilis Camping has a max pressure of 80 psi and the Agilis Commercial has a max of 65 psi. I only run at 48 - 50 psi on the rears and 65 on the front tyres.

 

[Markd]

Right I've checked the pressure ratings on my tyres - the van tyres have max capacity at 75 psi and Camping at 80 psi.
But the listed plies in sidewall and tread are the same!
225-75-16C is 10 Ply Rating - presumably this is what allows 75 psi.

 

[Markd]

Well that’s lucky

View attachment 75903

@campervanannie
So you do have Camping - personally I'd stick with them.

 

[Markd]

We are rapidly coming to the conclusion that there is something different about the Michelin Camping tyre as its max pressure rating is markedly higher than standard tyres.
Just what isn't clear and whether it's worth the extra money is obviously a matter of opinion-choice

 

[barge1914]

Well here it is from the horses mouth:

<<Thank you for contacting Michelin Consumer Care
We write you in regards to your enquiry about Michelin Agilis Camping tyres on your Roller Team Pegaso motorhome. We have checked this question with our technical department, and they notified us that, as you already know, in Germany cold weather tyres (tyres with winter certification 3PMSF) are obligatory for all users, according to climatic and driving conditions.
As for Austria, tyres with the M+S certificate are mandatory. The M+S (Mud and Snow) certification indicates that the tyres are designed for mud and snow (in winter) conditions. Unlike 3PMSF (three peak mountain and snowflake) M+S certifications have not been subjected to standardised testing. Furthermore, in Austria, it is mandatory to have more than 4 mm of tread depth remaining in the tyres that are currently mounted on the vehicle.
As for Switzerland, it is not mandatory to equip winter tyres, however you are responsible for having the necessary skills to drive safely under winter conditions. We strongly recommend to always carry snow chains, just in case. In Italy, especially in the northern part of the country, it is strongly recommended to have tyres with M+S certificate, and always carry snow chains on board.

As for availability of our tyres, in size 225/75 R16 we do have available both the MICHELIN Agilis Camping and the Agilis CrossClimate. Given that you mentioned that your motorhome has a total weight of 3.5 tones, both of these models would be suitable for your vehicle, as they can carry 2640kg per axle, which makes a total of 5280kg of bearable load. Still, we recommend to check the manufacturer's instructions as for speed index. These models have a maximum speed index of "R" which means that the tyre can reach a maximum speed of 105 miles per hour. You can also check the manufacturer's recommendations in the technical guide of your vehicle.

Nonetheless, since it is a motorhome, the only recommendation I could give is to mount the Agilis Camping, because this tyre is exclusively made for motorhomes. Its robust design is designed to withstand wear and damage associated with the heavy load campers. It can withstand long periods of no movement (being parked) without suffering tyre deformation.
The Agilis Camping is a summer only tyre, but has the M+S certificate, however it would not be legal to drive in countries where winter tyres are mandatory (Germany, Austria). You would have to mount the Agilis CrossClimate in order to comply with these countries' laws. However, as I mentioned, the only official recommendation we can give as for motorhomes, is the Agilis Camping. We strongly recommend to seek advice with the vehicle's manufacturer to see all the options you have as per which tyres to mount.>>

Following up with the manufacturer of the motorhome... They neither recommend or advise against the use of tyres not fitted by themselves, they say it is up to the owner to satisfy himself that the tyres chosen are suitable. Michelin say the tyres are suitable for a 3.5 ton motorhome, both are well aware of the need for certified winter tyres in Germany and certified M+S tyres in Austria, but to avoid liability both prefer to close their eyes and shrink away from making any recommendation on the subject. Michelin say the advantage of the camper tyres is resistance to deformation from long term parking. Since we use the van regularly all year round I can say am reasonably satisfied they are suitable as it would appear are the numerous van owners driving round the Alps with Agilis Crossclimate tyres. Indeed if one used the camper tyres in winter in Germany one could be prosecuted and have insurance voided because they are not compliant with the 3PMS certification that is required.

 

[Sharpie]

By "stiffened" sidewall I would think that that means extra reinforcement to be able to take the higher maximum pressure specified.

The rubber of the tyre being basically a bladder, it gets its shape and structure and strength from the strength of, and way that, the plies are laid up inside. And the higher the pressure inside the stiffer it becomes.

I suspect that say a van tyre running at 65 psi would be similarly "stiff" to a camper tyre run at 65 psi, rather than 85.

85 is 30% higher than 65, so the tyre must surely be significantly more strongly built to withstand this, when you consider the overall pressure on the total area of the sidewall it is enormous. All held in by just two windings of polyester strands in the ones in the picture above. Perhaps those plies are much stronger ones, or more tightly wound ?

Since Dethleffs specify 65 rear 60 front, and fitted van tyres originally, not camping ones, from new, and my weighbridge tests show that both axles are comfortably within their plated weights, that's good enough for me.

Besides, when I replaced the originals I uprated them to the wider ones that the Fiat handbook show as correct, there are two options given for the same wheels, and the wider, slightly lower profile ones have a higher load rating, so I have more margin.

But that's just my setup, and I do realise that some motorhomes with pitifully small payload allowances are sometimes run heavily overloaded because the owners, even the dealers, pay no attention to this and just pile stuff in and add stuff on, as long as there is room for it and have never visited a weighbridge to check, or just prefer not to know. So perhaps that's when a stronger constructed camper tyre, run at maximum pressure, would withstand the abuse much better.

If the manufacturer fitted camping tyres originally it would be sensible to keep on choosing them, they may have anticipated them being run overloaded and chosen them as a prudent precaution.

Just my speculation,

By the way, I like to have M+S all round, I wouldn't want them only on the front drive wheels. In poor conditions with the rears giving far less grip (and under the heavier load) the tail could slide out unpredictably and suddenly, you won't get much warning from e.g steering feel, and no amount of electronic driver aids will help if basically the rear end is no longer stuck to the road.